1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 04 Apr 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 189       Contents:2 Re: A proposed change to the Info-VAX mailing list Re: Accounting Utility Re: Audio server availability # Blocking relaying on VMS MX mailer? ' Re: Blocking relaying on VMS MX mailer? 1 Re: create your own personal SYS$COMMON directory  FW: Pro*C on VMS Alpha& Hoff's Email Address No Longer Valid ?* Re: Hoff's Email Address No Longer Valid ? It's very hard for me 7 Re: localtime() function C RTL don't agree w/ show time 7 Re: localtime() function C RTL don't agree w/ show time 7 Re: localtime() function C RTL don't agree w/ show time 7 Re: localtime() function C RTL don't agree w/ show time 7 Re: localtime() function C RTL don't agree w/ show time 7 Re: localtime() function C RTL don't agree w/ show time 7 Re: localtime() function C RTL don't agree w/ show time & Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL?& Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL?& Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL?& Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL?& Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL?& Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL?& Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL?& Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL?& Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL?& Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL?& Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL?& Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL? Re: Microsoft ruling Re: Microsoft ruling Re: Pipe Command RE: Pipe Command Pro*C on VMS Re: Pro*C on VMS Re: PWS 433a Questions. Re: Q : Automatic installation tool in OpenVMS. Re: Q : Automatic installation tool in OpenVMSK Re: Request for new MAIL Client (was Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL? 5 Re: SET SEC/OWN, SET FIL/OWNE, DIR/OWNE, UIC, GIC,... 5 Re: SET SEC/OWN, SET FIL/OWNE, DIR/OWNE, UIC, GIC,... * Re: Spin down hard disk on idle VMS system* Re: Spin down hard disk on idle VMS system Re: Suggestion for authorize Re: Time services  RE: Time services ) Re: VAX-Macro problems on Alpha VMS 7.2-1 ) Re: VAX-Macro problems on Alpha VMS 7.2-1 0 Re: VMS today: % users x-widnows vs VT terminals) Re: We be the BIG PAINFUL OUCH in dot com ) Re: We be the BIG PAINFUL OUCH in dot com ) Re: We be the BIG PAINFUL OUCH in dot com ) Re: We be the BIG PAINFUL OUCH in dot com ) Re: We be the BIG PAINFUL OUCH in dot com   X windows client server question	 ZIP/UNZIP 
 Re: ZIP/UNZIP 
 Re: ZIP/UNZIP 
 Re: ZIP/UNZIP   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 14:29:29 +0200 (CEST) : From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>; Subject: Re: A proposed change to the Info-VAX mailing list K Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10004041354420.22000-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>     Hi ! 3  For first - Mark, thanks for all previous answers.   3  But I will re-submit the question from Tim Shoppa: 	 +++++++++ ? Hmm, I missed out on the original proposal, but why do you want : to change this?  Problems with spammers?  Required by site policy? 	 +++++++++   1  Have seen here the message from Rick Millhollin: 	 +++++++++ < > That means - newsgroup comp.os.vms must be also read-only.  A This would be undesirable for me.  I would much rather deal with  ; a news group, which I can check when I want, than constant  / bombardment from a mailing list of high volume. 	 +++++++++   / ...and adding to one answer from Mark Berryman:   	 +++++++++ F +No, no, a thousand times no.  Please don't make that assumption.  TheI +news<==>mail gateway is uneffected by this proposal.  There is already a . +filter in place there that works pretty well.	 +++++++++   9 ...I am get to confusion: what may be the reason, to make E info-vax a non-public list (correction welcome, if the word is wrong: A I know the differrence beetwen unmoderated list to where *anyone* E can send messages and the second, to where only subscribers can send) 3 connected with read-write getway with comp.os.vms ? =  Why the "mailers" may be "worse people" than "newsreaders" ?   :  Supose the reason is spam; then - we get 3 types of spam:? - direct, because the spammers have get it from us headers; big ;  part of info-vax'ers :) uses spam-preventing headers, some >  (I also) not. The "blocking" make little harder the anti-spamA  header setup (ok, with the help from Mark this is not a problem) @ - sended to comp.os.vms: nothing changes, and *that* is the part*  of spam where will unfortunatelly grow :<(   From one last spamming message header:G  X-Newsgroups: comp.os.v,comp.os.vms,comp.os.vxworks,comp.os.windows95,      comp.os.xinu? - sended to info-VAX: the spam will be immadiatelly cut of. But .  IMHO we will not see a radical improvement :(  @  Additionally everyone where will not enought carefully read the? group desription (or have the address in his addressbook, using B it before) will get a reject :] (yes, commented of course, but...)  A  Then: even if Mark is in right make with the serwer what he want A or will, may be interesting reading any description (even if for  * me - only for curiousity !) of the reason.  @  One what I think is to lower the count of subsribers or senders! because the machine are busy ;) !     Regards - Gotfryd   --E ===================================================================== F $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME . $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:15:18 +0200 (CEST) : From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl> Subject: Re: Accounting Utility K Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10004041606480.22000-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>   & On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, Phil Howell wrote:  = +Dick Adams <adams.dick.rc@bhp.com.au> wrote in message [...]  +> Hi everyone, E +>     I want to create some reports from the accounting file but the C +>accounting utility doesn't seem to be able to do everything that   +>I (might) want to do.   : (IMHO better may be, if you say a word what you supose...) [...] G +There was a utility called 'sysuaf' on old decus software distribution     Phil !!)  ACCOUNTING report, not user management !   A  Sure, from user management code the account name and accjobquota = can be set for any username, but that probably not enought ;) 7  Account is a VMS feature *differrent* than username :)     Regards - Gotfryd   --E ===================================================================== F $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME . $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 12:17:23 -04005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> & Subject: Re: Audio server availability+ Message-ID: <8cd4f4$v6b$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>   C Have at it.  MMOV V2.2 will be released shortly.  Its just a simple G matter of programming.  I don't think there is any other infrastructure  missing?      @ JF Mezei wrote in message <38E78F36.EF2F6AA3@vl.videotron.ca>...K >Ever since I got a cable connection, I have used my MAC to listen to radio  (it J >is connected to stereo and VCR) to listen to music from around the world. > K >Got an interesting one yesterday, listening to na australian radio station  >that "lives on the net".  > L >Something akin to " You're listeing to the OZ channel, available 24 hours a1 >day, 7 days a week, unless our serverS go down".  > K >Another opportunity for VMS to enter that new market of radio broadcasting L >through IP connections. Would commercial radio stations tolerate that their0 >antennas break down as often as their servers ? > B >I have found that real-audio servers tend to be quite unreliable,
 especiallyL >during after-work-hours when there is probably nobody to reboot the sad PC. > G >Also, when you look at a site such as NASA (and United Space Alliance)  which L >provide live video feed, during launches, the load is very high. So, again,; >having alhas and VMS as real-audio servers would be great.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 23:08:57 -07004 From: "Todd Wipke" <wipke@nospam.chemistry.ucsc.edu>, Subject: Blocking relaying on VMS MX mailer?* Message-ID: <8cc0r2$sg8@darkstar.ucsc.edu>  @ Anybody using the MX mailer thought about how to block relaying?A The power of MX was its great routing and other features, but now H in this nasty new commercial internet, such features become liabilities.? I am using Multinet and MX, and would appreciate any experience H of others that have given this considerable thought.  Thanks in advance. -Todd Wipke 7 return address anti-spammed, fix is to delete word spam    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 08:58:10 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> 0 Subject: Re: Blocking relaying on VMS MX mailer?( Message-ID: <38E99281.FC411B3@gtech.com>   Todd Wipke wrote: B > Anybody using the MX mailer thought about how to block relaying?C > The power of MX was its great routing and other features, but now J > in this nasty new commercial internet, such features become liabilities.A > I am using Multinet and MX, and would appreciate any experience J > of others that have given this considerable thought.  Thanks in advance.   What version of MX ?  > The difference between the last free version 4.2 and the newer? 5.x versions are AFAIK mainly a lot of anti-spam functionality.    Arne   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 20:39:26 -0600) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> : Subject: Re: create your own personal SYS$COMMON directory- Message-ID: <sedcc7tj9109@corp.supernews.com>   0 JM <vmswiz@geonospamcities.com> wrote in messageI news:768797888A8B614F.9A7978CA78AF59E0.4B40157C8B000A55@lp.airnews.net... ! > > > > "John E. Malmberg" wrote:    John E. Malmberg did not write:   G > > > > If it were _MY_ choice, I'd like to see the SYS$SYTEM path look  > > > > like this: > > > > - > > > > "SYS$SYSTEM" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]" ( > > > >         = "SYS$SYSROOT:[USREXE]" > > >  > D > Here's a procedure I use in SYLOGICALS.COM to do just what you areB > asking except mine does ALL of the SYS$COMMON: and SYS$SPECIFIC:H > directories. I use it to create a "cluster common" directory so that IH > can maintain separate system disks for each system in the cluster, yetG > share most of the same system command files. It also makes it easy to G > separate my own applications from the generic VMS system directories. E > USERCOMMON goes on one machine in the cluster and everybody "nests" & > SYS$SYSROOT to add it to their list. > = > It is good for isolating 3rd party products in SYS$SYSTEM:, E > SYS$LIBRARY:, SYS$HELP:, SYS$MANAGER:, etc, even in a non-clustered  > environment. > ( > $       DEFINE/SYS/EXEC SYS_SHAREDROOT) > $1$DKA0:[USERCOMMON.]/TRANS=(CONC,TERM)  > $ * > $       DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXEC SYS$SYSROOT - > @ > 'F$TRNLNM("SYS$SPECIFIC","LNM$SYSTEM")'/TRANS=(CONCE,TERMI), -  >                 SYS$COMMON:, -! >                 SYS_SHAREDROOT:     E I prefer not to change the definition of the SYS$SYSROOT from the VMS 	 standard.   J It can greatly complicate diagnosing some types of problems, even if it is not the root cause.   L If a directory is present in one part of the search list and not the others,- it can cause some interesting error messages.   L The other issue with this system happens at a large site when you are forcedF to give system privileges to people that can not handle the concept of
 search lists.   H (Or you get called into a client site to fix a problem where most people have SYSPRV)  @ You will quickly find all the stuff that you meant to be in yourI SYS_SHAREDROOT: in the SYS$SYSPECIFIC: root.  Actually, quickly is wrong. J You will unexpectedly find this at the worst possible time.  You will alsoL find some stuff that should be in one root has accidentally moved to another one.  F One time I had the fun of finding out why MONITOR stopped working, andK instead was giving a very strange error.  It turned out that the local site B had written their own program named MONITOR and it had ended up in SYS$SPECIFIC:[SYSEXE].  K The simplest thing to do is to get these people used to the idea of leaving & the SYS$SYSROOT area completely alone.  L For products supplied by Compaq/Digital, I can generally get a list of filesC that should be present in each directory.  Third party and freeware . applications may not give me that information.  K For applications that do not have their own directories like GZIP, ZIP, and L such I put them in a directory known as PROGRAM_TOOLS:  Common Command filesJ in COM_TOOLS:.  Logical names and symbols are good for those programs thatD do not have .CLD files.  DCL$PATH is also a good tool for this also.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 15:24:52 +02006 From: Graham Van Der Vaart <Graham.vd.Vaart@ast.co.za> Subject: FW: Pro*C on VMS Alpha P Message-ID: <47DBB722BF1BD21199E00080C8372C1B31A550@ntsnexc1.new.iscorltd.co.za>   > Hi > G > We have infrastructure components ( C shared libraries and services ) ) > compiled on a HP-UX box running Oracle. L > A shared library, "a.sl" (general functions) was created from five objects, > of which one (including database functionsH > such as database connects, commits etc) was precompiled using Oracle's > Pro*C.J > Another shared library, "b.sl" ( batch kernel functions) was created and > linked to "a.sl".  > L > Services such as "c.exe" (batch programs) are linked to both a.sl and b.slG > We now wish to port this all to OpenVMS on ALPHA also running Oracle.  > L > I am unsure how to go about this ie: how to use cc, proc, lnproc and link.4 > When do you copy and install the shareable images?F > What would the make file look like? Are there any makefile templates > available? >  > 	 > Regards  > Graham >  >  > Graham Van der vaart > Senior Systems Analyst > AST-Abraxas Kwazulu-Natal  >  > Tel:	034 3148152 > Cell:	083 327 0801 > Fax:	034 31 8844 >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Apr 2000 15:59:32 GMT ) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) / Subject: Hoff's Email Address No Longer Valid ? ' Message-ID: <8cd3h4$bg5$1@joe.rice.edu> " Keywords: email,bounce,dns,problem     /home/leslie> date   Tue Apr  4 10:45:31 CDT 2000  3   /home/leslie> Mail -v hoffman@xdelta.enet.dec.com    Subject: Ignore - Test Email.   Will this message bounce with host unknown ?   . (   leslie... setsender: uid/gid = 403/100I   hoffman@xdelta.enet.dec.com... Connecting to xdelta.enet.dec.com.tcp... K   hoffman@xdelta.enet.dec.com... Connecting to xdelta.enet.dec.com (tcp)... J   hoffman@xdelta.enet.dec.com... Host unknown: A file descriptor does not     refer to an open file. ,   Saving message in /home/leslie/dead.letter"   /home/leslie/dead.letter... Sent   /home/leslie>   9   /home/leslie> nslookup xdelta.enet.dec.com  crl.dec.com    Server:  crl.dec.com   Address:  192.58.206.2  E   *** crl.dec.com can't find xdelta.enet.dec.com: Non-existent domain   8   /home/leslie> nslookup xdelta.enet.dec.com  ns.dec.com   Server:  ns.dec.com    Address:  204.123.2.42  D   *** ns.dec.com can't find xdelta.enet.dec.com: Non-existent domain    4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Apr 2000 16:11:01 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)3 Subject: Re: Hoff's Email Address No Longer Valid ? 6 Message-ID: <8cd46l$gud$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>" Keywords: email,bounce,dns,problem  S In article <8cd3h4$bg5$1@joe.rice.edu>, leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) writes: E :  *** ns.dec.com can't find xdelta.enet.dec.com: Non-existent domain   B   The "enet" domain was an internal set of DECnet "concentrators".  F   Compaq network removed the concentrators and the "enet" domain some H   time ago in favor of direct IP routing, and accodingly folks switched G   over the various references -- if you should see an old reference to  H   an "enet" domain around the Compaq OpenVMS site or the OpenVMS FAQ or I   somewhere else similar, please let me know where and I'll see if I can  K   get it changed...  (I expect some future reorganizations to the internal rF   network, and I will probably end up changing addresses yet again...)  E   And yes, I saw the reference to the update needed in MGMT8 and willl3   make that change for the next round of the FAQ...l  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 17:33:14 GMT(. From: Ildefonso Junquero <junquero@sainsel.es> Subject: It's very hard for me* Message-ID: <38EA2872.62B04313@sainsel.es>  
 Hello all!  F     It's very hard for me to remember how does vms work, so I'll be inD this group for some days until I finish to configure my 8 new Compaq OpenVMS workstations.L  C     First of all, I need to copy some files from an old workstationw. fully configured to a new recently configured.  ;     I want to copy file1.txt from WS1 to WS2 by the commande  )     copy file1.txt WS2"USER"::sys$update:o  4     where USER is a configured with no password user    H     but when I enter the command above in WS1 I get the following result :e  G     %COPY-E-OPENOUT, error opening WS2"USER"::SYS$MANAGER:[]FILE1.TXT;1?	 as outputd&     -RMS-E-CRE, ACP file create failedA     -SYSTEM-F-UNREACHABLE, remote node is not currently reachable?B     %COPY-W-NOTCOPIED, SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000.SIMTO]FILE1.TXT;1 not copied    6     this is the output of  mc ncp show node WS2 on WS1  0 Node Volatile Summary as of  4-APR-2000 18:25:34  C     Node           State      Active  Delay   Circuit     Next nodeC#                               Linksl  ?  8.2 (WS2)                                     EWA-0          0     1     and the output of mc ncp show node WS1 on WS2     0 Node Volatile Summary as of  4-APR-2000 19:26:20  , %NCP-W-UNRCMP, Unrecognized component , Node      &     but when i try to add WS1 on WS2 :     NCP>define node 1.10 name WS1o; %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual  address=000000000000& 000C, PC=000000000006DC1C, PS=0000001B  2   Improperly handled condition, image exit forced.1     Signal arguments:   Number = 0000000000000005U1                         Name   = 000000000000000Co1                                  0000000000000000 1                                  000000000000000CI1                                  000000000006DC1C-1                                  000000000000001B-       Register dump:9     R0  = 0000000000000000  R1  = 000000007B5982B0  R2  =, 00000000000081109     R3  = 0000000002010012  R4  = 000000000004B360  R5  =n 00000000000481049     R6  = 0000000000000001  R7  = 0000000000000000  R8  =i 000000007AF557E89     R9  = 0000000000000002  R10 = 0000000002010012  R11 =s 000000000004A5709     R12 = 000000000004B360  R13 = 0000000000007738  R14 =m 000000000004A5749     R15 = 0000000000000000  R16 = 000000000000040A  R17 =s 00000000000000559     R18 = 00000004001496F0  R19 = 0000000400000000  R20 =e 000000007B5989389     R21 = 0000000000000000  R22 = 0000000000000000  R23 =o 00000000000000049     R24 = 0000000000000000  R25 = 0000000000000001  R26 =I 000000000006DC109     R27 = 000000007B55B2E0  R28 = FFFFFFFF80000EBC  R29 =t 000000007AF556309     SP  = 000000007AF55600  PC  = 000000000006DC1C  PS  =  000000000000001B $e    *     The OpenVMS Version is 7.2-1 (I think)       Can you help me please?s       Thanks!a       --F ______________________________________________________________________F                   Ildefonso Junquero      e@mail : junquero@sainsel.es#     ___    __o    Software Engineery/    ____  _'\<,_   Sainsel Sistemas Navales S.A.i/  ______ (*)/ (*)  C/ Manuel Velasco Pando, N. 7 '                   41007 Sevilla (Spain)l*    Go faster!     Phone : +34-95-493 64 65*   Use the byke!   Fax   : +34-95-493 64 33F ______________________________________________________________________   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Apr 2000 14:53:13 GMT 4 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.dec.com (Charlie Hammond)@ Subject: Re: localtime() function C RTL don't agree w/ show time6 Message-ID: <8ccvkp$eos$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  7 In article <4.3.0.20000403110947.018d35f0@24.8.96.48>, p$ Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> writes:  @ >Have someone with privs do an @SYS$MANAGER:UTC$CONFIGURE_TDF...  ; Please do not execute SYS$MANAGER:UTC$CONFIGURE_TDF.COM or lE SYS$MANAGER:UTC$TIMEZONE_SETUP.COM directly.  Yes, the documantation mC instructs you to do this, but it is a way to get Time Zone and Timei' Differential Factor (TDF) out of synch.e  K Instead, execute SYS$MANAGER:UTC$TIME_SETUP.COM and choose the BOTH option.AF This will [re]set your time zone and supply you with defaults for TDF.  G (Please don't blame me for the confusingly similar names!  Also, pleaseeI don't ask me what might of might not happen in a possible future version i6 of OpenVMS which may or may not be under development.)   -- eK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAfD            (hammond@peek.ppb.dec.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 11:34:13 -0400N" From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org>@ Subject: Re: localtime() function C RTL don't agree w/ show time6 Message-ID: <4.3.0.20000404113232.018eee20@24.8.96.48>  0 At 02:53 PM 4/4/00 +0000, Charlie Hammond wrote:  7 >In article <4.3.0.20000403110947.018d35f0@24.8.96.48>,0% >Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> writes:d >oB > >Have someone with privs do an @SYS$MANAGER:UTC$CONFIGURE_TDF... >t; >Please do not execute SYS$MANAGER:UTC$CONFIGURE_TDF.COM oryE >SYS$MANAGER:UTC$TIMEZONE_SETUP.COM directly.  Yes, the documantationdD >instructs you to do this, but it is a way to get Time Zone and Time( >Differential Factor (TDF) out of synch. > L >Instead, execute SYS$MANAGER:UTC$TIME_SETUP.COM and choose the BOTH option.G >This will [re]set your time zone and supply you with defaults for TDF.   J Ah. Well, I shall be more careful in the future then. Can we get the docs : updated with the appropriate warnings and suchlike things?  K Also, could someone update the daylight savings time question to give some uK hint as to whether it's a summer or winter option? (Yes, I know, but I can e& *never* remember which way it goes...)     					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"-------------------=2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and evenE;                                       teddy bears get drunk.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Apr 2000 15:45:38 GMT=) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) @ Subject: Re: localtime() function C RTL don't agree w/ show time' Message-ID: <8cd2n2$adh$1@joe.rice.edu>A  5 Charlie Hammond (hammond@not@peek.ppb.dec.com) wrote:z  = : Please do not execute SYS$MANAGER:UTC$CONFIGURE_TDF.COM or  G : SYS$MANAGER:UTC$TIMEZONE_SETUP.COM directly.  Yes, the documantation hE : instructs you to do this, but it is a way to get Time Zone and Time.) : Differential Factor (TDF) out of synch.   M : Instead, execute SYS$MANAGER:UTC$TIME_SETUP.COM and choose the BOTH option.eH : This will [re]set your time zone and supply you with defaults for TDF.  I : (Please don't blame me for the confusingly similar names!  Also, please K : don't ask me what might of might not happen in a possible future version n8 : of OpenVMS which may or may not be under development.)  H The VMS FAQ's Section "MGMT8. How do I change the timezone differential H and time in batch?" needs to be updated, since it instructs the user to & use SYS$MANAGER:UTC$CONFIGURE_TDF.COM.    4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Apr 2000 16:05:18 GMTd2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)@ Subject: Re: localtime() function C RTL don't agree w/ show time6 Message-ID: <8cd3ru$gud$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  [ In article <4.3.0.20000404113232.018eee20@24.8.96.48>, Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> writes:-K :Ah. Well, I shall be more careful in the future then. Can we get the docs ,; :updated with the appropriate warnings and suchlike things?c  F   Ayup, a rework is on the way for the documentation, as is a section >   in the OpenVMS FAQ covering at least some of the wrinkles...  L :Also, could someone update the daylight savings time question to give some L :hint as to whether it's a summer or winter option? (Yes, I know, but I can ' :*never* remember which way it goes...)e     Huh? n  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 12:29:28 -0400 " From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org>@ Subject: Re: localtime() function C RTL don't agree w/ show time6 Message-ID: <4.3.0.20000404122626.018b6100@24.8.96.48>  - At 04:05 PM 4/4/00 +0000, Hoff Hoffman wrote:d  E >In article <4.3.0.20000404113232.018eee20@24.8.96.48>, Dan Sugalski f ><dan@sidhe.org> writes:L >:Also, could someone update the daylight savings time question to give someL >:hint as to whether it's a summer or winter option? (Yes, I know, but I can( >:*never* remember which way it goes...) >  >   Huh?  E The question run something like "Is Daylight Savings time in effect? rI (Yes/No):". I can never remember if daylight savings is in effect in the KJ summer or the winter. A little prompting wouldn't be a bad thing. Neither K would me finally learning which way it goes, but if I haven't gotten it by bH now I don't hold out a whole lot of hope for the fall. (With my luck it $ depends on the country you're in...)   					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"-------------------92 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and evene;                                       teddy bears get drunk$   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 18:51:52 +0200> From: "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr>@ Subject: Re: localtime() function C RTL don't agree w/ show time+ Message-ID: <8cd6hs$7ik$1@minus.oleane.net>   ) Daylight savings is in effect in summer !t As for France,C summer time corresponds to a DST of 2 hours instead of 1 in winter.r   Jean-Franois Marchal  X9000 - LYON      / "Dan Sugalski" <dan@sidhe.org> wrote in messagei0 news:4.3.0.20000404122626.018b6100@24.8.96.48.../ > At 04:05 PM 4/4/00 +0000, Hoff Hoffman wrote:i > F > >In article <4.3.0.20000404113232.018eee20@24.8.96.48>, Dan Sugalski > ><dan@sidhe.org> writes:I > >:Also, could someone update the daylight savings time question to giveE someJ > >:hint as to whether it's a summer or winter option? (Yes, I know, but I canm* > >:*never* remember which way it goes...) > >T
 > >   Huh? >EF > The question run something like "Is Daylight Savings time in effect?J > (Yes/No):". I can never remember if daylight savings is in effect in theK > summer or the winter. A little prompting wouldn't be a bad thing. Neither L > would me finally learning which way it goes, but if I haven't gotten it byI > now I don't hold out a whole lot of hope for the fall. (With my luck iti& > depends on the country you're in...) >y > Dans > K > --------------------------------------"it's like this"-------------------t4 > Dan Sugalski                          even samuraiA > dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and eveni= >                                       teddy bears get drunks >    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Apr 2000 17:44:06 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)@ Subject: Re: localtime() function C RTL don't agree w/ show time6 Message-ID: <8cd9l6$jr0$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  [ In article <4.3.0.20000404122626.018b6100@24.8.96.48>, Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> writes: F :The question run something like "Is Daylight Savings time in effect? J :(Yes/No):". I can never remember if daylight savings is in effect in the K :summer or the winter. A little prompting wouldn't be a bad thing. Neither  L :would me finally learning which way it goes, but if I haven't gotten it by I :now I don't hold out a whole lot of hope for the fall. (With my luck it  % :depends on the country you're in...)   F   It's (far) worse than that: the decision to switch to daylight time H   depends on which specific part of which specific country the clock is *   located in, and even on what year it is.  E   The last time I looked, the US state of Arizona does not switch to ,F   daylight savings time, staying on Mountain Standard Time year-round.J   The Navajo (located in Arizona) do make the switch to Mountain Daylight    Time, however.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Apr 2000 03:27:42 -0400 4 From: "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com>/ Subject: Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL?r+ Message-ID: <B50F11B1-C74D5E@165.247.42.15>u  / On Mon, Apr 3, 2000 10:25 PM, David J. Dachtera $ <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote:   > B >Under what circumstances would it be an accident to append a /ALL3 >qualifier when issuring the REPLY command in MAIL?s > K Aren't there some oonix mail programs where "r" means "reply" and "R" means*D "spam the entire recipient list"?  I periodically get huge bursts of garbage E mail from oonix-distributed mail, and this is the most common excuse.r     ---------------------------  Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comP   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Apr 2000 10:17:51 GMT:* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)/ Subject: Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL? - Message-ID: <8ccfgf$v6$1@info.service.rug.nl>   > In article <B50F11B1-C74D5E@165.247.42.15>, "Robert Deininger"$ <rdeininger@mindspring.com> writes:   1 > On Mon, Apr 3, 2000 10:25 PM, David J. Dachtera & > <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote: > > D > >Under what circumstances would it be an accident to append a /ALL5 > >qualifier when issuring the REPLY command in MAIL?r > >lM > Aren't there some oonix mail programs where "r" means "reply" and "R" means$F > "spam the entire recipient list"?  I periodically get huge bursts of	 > garbage G > mail from oonix-distributed mail, and this is the most common excuse.e  - Case-insensitive 1, case-sensitive 0.  Again.i  I I also like verbose commands.  I know a unix system admin(!) who thought 4I that rm was the command for "remote mount": rm /home/users/ didn't work, t0 so he remembered "oh yeah, add -Rf then it does.   ------------------------------  " Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 11:52:16 GMT2 From: kilgallen@eisner.decus.org (Larry Kilgallen)/ Subject: Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL?d& Message-ID: <2000Apr4.075216.1@eisner>  g In article <38E95343.5D9507AB@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:c > Larry Kilgallen wrote: >>  d >> In article <8caaj5$9f4@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes: >> nK >> > OpenVMS engineers: could we maybe have it added to mail at some point? 8 >> > (For instance, when the real MIME support goes in?) >> aH >> Please no.  Somebody who wants to blast something to the world shouldH >> do original typing.  There should be no way to achieve that effect by >> accident. > C > Under what circumstances would it be an accident to append a /ALL 4 > qualifier when issuring the REPLY command in MAIL?   When all of:  < 	1) The user is clueless and types /ALL rather than /EXTRACT  3 	2) The original message was to the _whole_company_.  0 	3) The company is much larger than LJK Software  F Whichever of you system managers claim you have _no_ clueless users inF an extremely large company have clearly been smoking funny cigarettes.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 10:00:27 -0400c0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>/ Subject: Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL?a/ Message-ID: <38E9F579.11980AFD@vl.videotron.ca>o  H I think that MAIL needs a BIG revamping, and that may not bode well with upwards compatibility.  G They'd need to add support for stuff such as a reply-to address that iswM different from the "From:", they might needs to change the structure to allowfM "true" multiple TOs and CCs (right now, they are stored as a single string if C I remember properly, they just happen to have a coma between each).i    J Another improvement they need to figure how to implement is the ability toM "highlight" URLS in mail messages al allow one to double click on one to have0# that URL called by the web browser.o  J Does X-windows have the ability for one process to signal another existing process to open a new file/url?   L For instance, on a MAC, if I double click on a document when the applicationK is already running, that application is told to close the existing document  and open the new one.    ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:29:51 -0400 (EDT)+ From: Mike Goumans <mgoumans@atmcanada.com> / Subject: Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL?oI Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1000404102847.19892M-100000@bgp.atmcanada.com>   # On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, JF Mezei wrote:   J > I think that MAIL needs a BIG revamping, and that may not bode well with > upwards compatibility. > I > They'd need to add support for stuff such as a reply-to address that is O > different from the "From:", they might needs to change the structure to allowaO > "true" multiple TOs and CCs (right now, they are stored as a single string if E > I remember properly, they just happen to have a coma between each).t >  > L > Another improvement they need to figure how to implement is the ability toO > "highlight" URLS in mail messages al allow one to double click on one to have % > that URL called by the web browser.  > L > Does X-windows have the ability for one process to signal another existing! > process to open a new file/url?0  D Netscape has a -remote function that lets you execute a command in a currently running instance.   A Details are at http://home.netscape.com/newsref/std/x-remote.htmls     > N > For instance, on a MAC, if I double click on a document when the applicationM > is already running, that application is told to close the existing documentr > and open the new one.  >    Mike   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Apr 2000 14:13:33 GMT * From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)/ Subject: Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL? . Message-ID: <8cctad$510$1@info.service.rug.nl>  8 In article <38E9F579.11980AFD@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei* <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:   I > They'd need to add support for stuff such as a reply-to address that is3 > different from the "From:",   I I think this already happens, i.e. the Reply-to: address shows up in the  E From: field and is replied to (at least if the mail being replied to 5 came from a VMS machine).3   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Apr 2000 14:15:27 GMT0* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)/ Subject: Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL?1. Message-ID: <8cctdv$510$2@info.service.rug.nl>  8 In article <38E9F579.11980AFD@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei* <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:   J > I think that MAIL needs a BIG revamping, and that may not bode well with > upwards compatibility.  I VMS MAIL is great.  Backward compatibility should be retained.  Priority  A should be getting rid of the things which got broken when it was (E rewritten in C (which is why I USE MAIL/OLD).  The only thing really _B lacking is the ability for an individual user to select the From: @ address which goes out, or at least the domain, himself and for D individual messages (which could be disabled by the System Manager).   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 10:25:43 -0400 + From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> / Subject: Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL?y1 Message-ID: <38E9C327.5B01DFB5@trailing-edge.com>_   Phillip Helbig wrote:_ > : > In article <38E9F579.11980AFD@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei+ > <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:o > L > > I think that MAIL needs a BIG revamping, and that may not bode well with > > upwards compatibility. > J > VMS MAIL is great.  Backward compatibility should be retained.  PriorityB > should be getting rid of the things which got broken when it wasF > rewritten in C (which is why I USE MAIL/OLD).  The only thing reallyC > lacking is the ability for an individual user to select the From:EA > address which goes out, or at least the domain, himself and foruF > individual messages (which could be disabled by the System Manager).  6 Multinet, at least, has had this for several years ...< a user just has to set the logical MULTINET_SMTP_FROM_HOST .   Tim.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Apr 2000 14:37:21 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)/ Subject: Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL?t6 Message-ID: <8ccun1$f98$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  [ In article <8cctdv$510$2@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:i :The only thing really SC :lacking is the ability for an individual user to select the From: nA :address which goes out, or at least the domain, himself and for eE :individual messages (which could be disabled by the System Manager).1  C   That select-your-return-address capability is likely going to be i0   latent in an upcoming TCP/IP Services release.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Apr 2000 14:40:59 GMTh4 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.dec.com (Charlie Hammond)/ Subject: Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL?F6 Message-ID: <8ccutr$eos$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>   (1)h: "Reply to all" can be overused!  It can also be desirable.M Using OpenVMS mail from a DECterm window, I can cut and past the CC list fromeO mail I received to the mail I am sending fairly easily.  I can also selectivelylL edit it.  I do not generally use the windows version of OpenVMS mail, but itJ looks like the same thing could be done there.  While cut-and-paste is not; the same as "click-reply-all", it is better than re-typing!    (2) E Although OpenVMS mail does not have the ablity to click on a reply-toeH address, you can send a reply-to address that will work when the messageG is read by a mail reader that has that capability.  To do this, prevace-8 the mail address with "mailto:" (no space after the ":") For example   =     You can send me mail at mailto:charles.hammond@compaq.com    -- dK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAnD            (hammond@peek.ppb.dec.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 11:20:12 -0400  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com/ Subject: Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL?c4 Message-ID: <C22568B7.0053770E.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  > --0__=9OBsoe7UqexcclJqsTkyMotw6sdZNuZn2IPvXeNMq7fMlIrh613tNGnp, Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inlinef+ Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printablet         Did you really mean "latent?".% Main Entry: (superscript: 1)la=B7tents& Pronunciation: 'lA-t(superscript: &)nt Function: adjective H Etymology: Middle English, from Latin latent-, latens, from present par= ticiple B of latEre to lie hidden; akin to Greek lanthanein to escape notice Date: 15th centuryH : present and capable of becoming though not now visible, obvious, or a= ctive <a latent infection>e - la=B7tent=B7ly adverbiH synonyms LATENT, DORMANT, QUIESCENT, POTENTIAL mean not now showing sig= ns ofEH activity or existence. LATENT applies to a power or quality that has no= t yet)H come forth but may emerge and develop <a latent desire for success>. DO= RMANTaH suggests the inactivity of something (as a feeling or power) as though = sleepingH <their passion had lain dormant>. QUIESCENT suggests a usually temporar= y H cessation of activity <the disease was quiescent>. POTENTIAL applies to=  whatoH does not yet have existence or effect but is likely soon to have <a pot= ential
 disaster>.          7 hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam on 04/04/2000 10:37:21 AMp  / Please respond to hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospami   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comF cc:v0 Subject:  Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL?     =m  > --0__=9OBsoe7UqexcclJqsTkyMotw6sdZNuZn2IPvXeNMq7fMlIrh613tNGnp* Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline       K In article <8cctdv$510$2@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip- Helbig) writes:i :The only thing reallyB :lacking is the ability for an individual user to select the From:@ :address which goes out, or at least the domain, himself and forE :individual messages (which could be disabled by the System Manager).c  B   That select-your-return-address capability is likely going to be0   latent in an upcoming TCP/IP Services release.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com            @ --0__=9OBsoe7UqexcclJqsTkyMotw6sdZNuZn2IPvXeNMq7fMlIrh613tNGnp--   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 16:29:51 GMT  From: d.webb@mdx.ac.uk/ Subject: Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL?g) Message-ID: <8cd59a$79s$1@nnrp1.deja.com>r  6 In article <8ccun1$f98$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>,$ hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam wrote: > D > In article <8cctdv$510$2@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes: > :The only thing reallyD > :lacking is the ability for an individual user to select the From:B > :address which goes out, or at least the domain, himself and forG > :individual messages (which could be disabled by the System Manager).  > B > That select-your-return-address capability is likely going to be0 > latent in an upcoming TCP/IP Services release. > 3 > --------------------------- pure personal opinion  ----------------------------G > Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman OpenVMS Engineering hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com  >a >r  C No problem as long as the mail system puts the real from address as  a Sender line.  @ Though it doesn't take much knowledge to bypass the mail clients and forge SMTP mail.  > Has Dec TCPIP services 5.0a stopped telling people exactly how7 to forge mail when they type HELP in the SMTP dialogue. 1 I just checked and UCX 4.2 eco 3 still tells you.i ie	 HELP MAILs1 214 MAIL FROM:<sender>  ...  Specifies the sender0  = I know lots of other Unix based systems do the same but thats3
 no excuse.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex university  @ Note. I purposely missed out explaining how to get into the SMTP; dialogue for the very few people who are not aware of this.r    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.h   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 13:19:47 GMT % From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com>  Subject: Re: Microsoft rulingr) Message-ID: <8ccq56$q5e$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   / In article <38E918B7.B27B1188@vl.videotron.ca>,e1 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> wrote: F > Anyone notice how MS was over 10 minutes late in starting their news > conference ? >eF > Sounds like they had to <alt><ctrl><del> their video server in their own  > studio :-) :-) :-)  C I noticed they kept people waiting (standard Microsoft policy) thenaA ran through a series of planted audience questions. CNN obviously : noticed too as they cut away from live coverage mid-plant.     --
 Alan Greig    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.-   ------------------------------   Date: 4 APR 2000 14:46:55 GMTo4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) Subject: Re: Microsoft rulingo5 Message-ID: <4APR00.14465562@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>a  J In a previous article, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote:  : ->  http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/microsoft-conclusions.html  * Note that the report is also available at:   	http://usvms.gpo.gov/  ( This url is a bit more appropriate here.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 08:44:35 +0200, From: "Bart Zorn" <Bart.Zorn@wkap.nospam.nl> Subject: Re: Pipe Commandb0 Message-ID: <8cc2ou$1fd$1@nereid.worldonline.nl>  K I may be missing something, but assuming that tta2 is a spooled device, why( not:  ' $ SHOW SYSTEM/PROCESS=IGT*/OUTPUT=TTA2:a  	 Bart Zorn     3 Markus Eymann <eymannm@bluewin.ch> wrote in messagey( news:8caivs$mp3$1@bw107zhb.bluewin.ch... > Hi everybody,  > @ > I use the command "pipe show system | search sys$input igt" toH > search a specific process. Now I'd like to expand the command, so that% > the output is printed to sys$print.m > Is it possible and how?D >i > Thanks > Markus > eymannm@rtc.ch >- >-   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 09:04:24 -03001 From: "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com>z Subject: RE: Pipe Command-K Message-ID: <F150836441C5D311A11700508B6FF01A595218@bdant024.bda.bobda.com>"  1 > From: 	Bart Zorn[SMTP:Bart.Zorn@wkap.nospam.nl]  > I > I may be missing something, but assuming that tta2 is a spooled device,n > why, > not:) > $ SHOW SYSTEM/PROCESS=IGT*/OUTPUT=TTA2:e >  > Bart Zornt >  > K Yep, you most certainly are SYS$PRINT is a logical that may differ for eachiK user on the system or even each separate instance of a users task.  You canl> only use your command when you know the spooled output device. - Darren    F **********************************************************************C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and-J may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.M They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they L are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copying  of this message is prohibited.   Bank of Bermuda F **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:53:08 +02006 From: Graham Van Der Vaart <Graham.vd.Vaart@ast.co.za> Subject: Pro*C on VMSrP Message-ID: <47DBB722BF1BD21199E00080C8372C1B31A553@ntsnexc1.new.iscorltd.co.za>   Hi  E We have infrastructure components ( C shared libraries and services )i' compiled on a HP-UX box running Oracle.iJ A shared library, "a.sl" (general functions) was created from five objects* of which one (including database functionsF such as database connects, commits etc) was precompiled using Oracle's Pro*C.H Another shared library, "b.sl" ( batch kernel functions) was created and linked to "a.sl".2  J Services such as "c.exe" (batch programs) are linked to both a.sl and b.slE We now wish to port this all to OpenVMS on ALPHA also running Oracle.1  J I am unsure how to go about this ie: how to use cc, proc, lnproc and link.2 When do you copy and install the shareable images?D What would the make file look like? Are there any makefile templates
 available?     Regardsd Graham   Graham Van der vaart Senior Systems Analyst AST-Abraxas Kwazulu-Natald   Tel:	034 3148152 Cell:	083 327 0801 Fax:	034 31 8844   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 11:07:59 -0400s" From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> Subject: Re: Pro*C on VMSu6 Message-ID: <4.3.0.20000404110336.018fa9f0@24.8.96.48>  5 At 04:53 PM 4/4/00 +0200, Graham Van Der Vaart wrote:p  K >I am unsure how to go about this ie: how to use cc, proc, lnproc and link.o3 >When do you copy and install the shareable images?tE >What would the make file look like? Are there any makefile templates  >available?n  K Read the Oracle docs for this, and use the i option to lnproc. You'll need uJ to create a .OPT file for your shareable image, and the docs for that are  in the VMS linker manual.   I You won't find much in the way of makefile chunks, as we generally don't mG use make or its VMS analogs MMS and MMK, instead doing this stuff with pL command procedures. If you really want to see pieces you can always install L perl then build the DBD::Oracle module--it ultimately generates a shareable G image, though digging the details out of a perl module's autogenerated  K DESCRIP.MMS (Our version of a Makefile) is more fun than most human beings s should be allowed to have...  I Whatever you do, do *not* try to link your shareable image directly. Use bJ lnproc. Oracle does some horribly bizarre and evil things with the linker , that you don't even want to try and emulate.   					Dan  L ----------------------------------------------------------------------------L Dan Sugalski                          General and VMS-specific perl training
 dan@sidhe.orgs>                                       Mail me for more details   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 12:07:44 -04005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>l Subject: Re: PWS 433a Questionsp+ Message-ID: <8cd3t3$utt$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>-  " Zane H. Healy wrote in message ...  I >The other problem is it has a 4D40T Graphics adapter so I'll need to getoJ >something that will work with OpenVMS.  Looks like my best bet is an ElsaL >Gloria Synergy, anyone have any leads on who still has them?  Can I use the@ >TGA or TGA2 cards for the time being (I've got both from my one4 >AlphaStation200 4/233 and my AlphaStation 500/333). >s    ;  Yes.  The TGA & TGA2 are both good choices, and will work.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 08:46:25 +0200u= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> 7 Subject: Re: Q : Automatic installation tool in OpenVMSv( Message-ID: <38E98FC1.4AB45ED@gtech.com>   John Il-Joong Kim wrote:> > But, I meant both 'packaging' AND 'installation' in OpenVMS.S > I have distribution copies of files and executable. In order to use VMSINSTAL.COMwW > I guess that I first do make them into one package file (or distribution volume) thens > use VMSINSTAL.COM. > Q > I have looked through the manual that you suggest, but I cannot find the manualn+ > to describe a making distribution volume.r > , > More suggestion will be certainly helpful~  0 VMSINSTAL uses VMS BACKUP savesets as container.  B Basicly when you install kit XXXXVVV (XXXX = product abbreviation,= VVV = version with implicit period as VV.V), then VMSINSTALL:n0   - looks for savesets XXXXVVV.F where F=A,B,...@   - it extracts a KITINSTALL.COM from the .A saveset and execute+     that to do the rest of the installationo  A There are some special tricks to do it "the VMS way". I am prettugA sure that Digital did have documentation on how to use those. Butj; if it is not to be found, then look at something else usinga> VMSINSTALL like f.ex. MGFTP (I am sure that Hunter has done an excellent job).r   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Apr 2000 13:26:50 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)7 Subject: Re: Q : Automatic installation tool in OpenVMS 6 Message-ID: <8ccqiq$dj2$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  Z In article <38E94466.AB69EB3B@computer.org>, John Il-Joong Kim <jkim@computer.org> writes:- :This is a multi-part message in MIME format.i  -   Please turn off MIME when posting.  Thanks!d  = :But, I meant both 'packaging' AND 'installation' in OpenVMS. > :I have distribution copies of files and executable. In order = :to use VMSINSTAL.COM I guess that I first do make them into aB :one package file (or distribution volume) then use VMSINSTAL.COM.  G   SPKITBLD.COM is the tool used to package up the VMSINSTAL files into  9   the kit, though other approaches are clearly available.s  J :I have looked through the manual that you suggest, but I cannot find the 1 :manual to describe a making distribution volume.i  H   "You"?  There are more than a few "you" folks here, you might want to <   be a little more specific with your references...  Thanks!  + :More suggestion will be certainly helpful~   G   Posting the OpenVMS platform and version would be useful information,1E   as well as the proposed media for the distribution.  CD-R or CD-ROM8   is recommended.v  F   If the target is OpenVMS Alpha V6.x or later, or OpenVMS VAX V6.x orG   later, I would not recommend the use of VMSINSTAL.  I would recommendiF   the use of PCSI.  The PCSI facility provides a PACKAGE mechanism forI   creating a sequential-format (the most common choice; an omnibus file) g;   or reference-format (usually only OpenVMS uses this) kit.y  G   PCSI forces you to split the installation process (moving files, etc)nH   from the post-installation configuration process.  Products using PCSIJ   (and many products using VMSINSTAL) thus have a separate tool_CONFIG.COMI   procedure or similar tool that the system manager or the kit installer aE   invokes directly, once installation is complete.  VMSINSTAL permits I   the configuration to be incorporated into the KITINSTAL procedure, but r6   this is not an approach I generally recommend using.  F   If you want information on the media itself, information on creatingH   magtape is in the OpenVMS documentation.  Information on creating CD-RG   media on OpenVMS is included in the OpenVMS FAQ.  (Both SPKITBLD and  G   the PCSI PACKAGE stuff can deal with magtape and CD media, as well asdJ   kits on removable disk.  All OpenVMS Alpha systems are expected to have H   access to a CD-ROM drive.  OpenVMS VAX installation media varies, but J   the next major OpenVMS VAX release will likely be the last with magtape L   and TK50 installation support for OpenVMS VAX itself.  OpenVMS VAX itself <   will likely be available only on CD media from then on...)  H   For information on PCSI (the _POLYCENTER Software Installation UtilityK   Developer's Guide_ manual), please see the OpenVMS documentation website:m  (     http://www.openvms.digital.com:8000/  J   The V7.2 manual is greatly improved over earlier versions of the manual.H   (We incorporated an extensive amount of internal and customer feedback6   on the original PCSI manuals into the V7.2 edition.)  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Apr 2000 14:20:24 GMT.2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)T Subject: Re: Request for new MAIL Client (was Re: method for "reply to all" in MAIL?6 Message-ID: <8cctn8$eo5$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  b In article <38E9F579.11980AFD@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:I :I think that MAIL needs a BIG revamping, and that may not bode well with  :upwards compatibility.   ?   Short of a mail rewrite or other totally new MAIL client, no.   H :They'd need to add support for stuff such as a reply-to address that isN :different from the "From:", they might needs to change the structure to allowN :"true" multiple TOs and CCs (right now, they are stored as a single string ifD :I remember properly, they just happen to have a coma between each).  B   Fully-integrated SMTP support, I assume.  This sort of change isC   rather more difficult to maintain compatibility with the existingO.   DECnet transport and existing MAIL servers.  :GK :Another improvement they need to figure how to implement is the ability tofN :"highlight" URLS in mail messages al allow one to double click on one to have$ :that URL called by the web browser.  ?   That's only feasible with the X Windows interface, or similarv@   windowing environment.  Not with the default character cell...  K :Does X-windows have the ability for one process to signal another existingp  :process to open a new file/url?  "   Via the outdated LiveLinks, yes.  M :For instance, on a MAC, if I double click on a document when the applicationvL :is already running, that application is told to close the existing document :and open the new one.  E   Most OpenVMS folks use the mouse cut-and-paste for this.  Not quitefE   as transparent and obviously not quite as nice, but this same levelNG   of transparency is also what often gets the PC folks in trouble with h   system security...  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 14:36:59 +0200 (CEST)r: From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>> Subject: Re: SET SEC/OWN, SET FIL/OWNE, DIR/OWNE, UIC, GIC,...K Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10004041435270.22000-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>   $ On 5 Mar 2000, Phillip Helbig wrote:  A +In article <0a3601bf86c4$fe0bee50$020a0a0a@xile.realm>, "John E. $ +Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> writes:  [...] D +> The above group Rightslist is present.  Newer versions of OpenVMSN +> automagically create a GROUP Rightslist identifier if missing that is equal/ +> to the UAF Account field when adding a user.d +sG +When was this introduced?  I'm at 7.2-1 but the accounts were created s
 +with 7.1.  F  If I remember correctly, the mentioned "newer version" must be beforeA VMS 5 :) Can't remeber if AUTHORIZE in VMS 4.X has also "autoadd"/ (probably yes).s    Regards - Gotfryd   --E =====================================================================hF $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEq. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================r   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 15:11:35 +0200 (CEST)D: From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>> Subject: Re: SET SEC/OWN, SET FIL/OWNE, DIR/OWNE, UIC, GIC,...K Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10004041440440.22000-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>l    Ok, will add next 0.02$ :)T  & On 5 Mar 2000, Robert Deininger wrote:  J +On Sun, Mar 5, 2000 10:54 AM, Phillip Helbig <helbig@astro.rug.nl> wrote: [...]a" +>[GIC,UIC]                      C +>8 +>where GIC is the group number and UIC the user number.  :  Philip - comment only: the widely used shortcut is "GRP".9  You can find it in DOCs, examples, lexical function etc.e$ $ write sys$output f$getjpi(0,"GRP")  C +This is an account where neither the username nor the group has ane +identifier.  C  Robert, will disagree with use of the term "account" as "username"o@ (especially in AUTHORIZE) ! Even, if much of VMS-lower-knowledge@ people are uses "account" as "username" someone can be confused.D  With the "set automatic identifier when ADD new username" alghoritm - especially !  >  Looking in HELP (of AUTHORIZE) we can see the /ADD qualifier,< where is default. When we use /ADD (means: no use of /NOADD) we get: 9 - if the UIC has not a existing name and the new usernamet<  is not used as identifier - a UIC identifier is created [1]9 - if the group has not existing name and the new username >  is added to account and the account is not used as identifier=  then group name is automatically created as account name [2]a; [1] - you *can* create username nemed "BATCH" but you can'to<  then add to it a supported UIC identifier, because reserved6  identifier BATCH already exists. If SYSTEM is used as<  name for UIC=[1,4] you can't create second identifier named<  SYSTEM (Philip checks that ;)!) nor add second name (alias)  to the value [1,4]. [2]e2 UAF> ADD TSTUSER/UIC=[14432,5712]/ACCOUNT=TSTACCNT  and check the messages :)  <  ACCOUNT is a second (optional) name, one user can have only5 one account but more users can have the same account.r;  Even if ACCOUNT was (probably) created for accounting pur-i9 pouses, you can use the fact that account name is in job s; (err... proces... can't remember...) header for some other s needs :)   [...] I +I think you can either specify /OWNER=<identifier>  (where the id reallyw= +has to stand for an account and not something like "BATCH"),- [...]e&  Minor addition - you already says it: [...]aJ +You can also say /OWNER=<identifer> and use a non-uic identifier that has +the resource attribute.  @  My last additions will be the fact, that AUTHORIZE already will, support wildcard chracters for SHOW command: UAF> SHOW/ID %%S*i
 UAF> SHOW %Y*i=  and the "identifier where name is the same as users UIC" can:
  be add with:/ UAF> ADD/ID/USER=usernamea#  where also works with wildcards :)-    Regards - Gotfryd   --E ===================================================================== F $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEs. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================r   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 13:11:26 GMT$% From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com>y3 Subject: Re: Spin down hard disk on idle VMS systeme) Message-ID: <8ccplk$pi5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   . In article <seht7nk3eop41@corp.supernews.com>,. "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote: > A > I still do not know 100% if the drives are spinning down, but I-H > mounted a drive last Friday and tried to access it today. When I did I@ > had a Mount Verify error and three entries in the error log. IF > captured the three error log entries through Compaq Analyze, this is > what I am seeing;   B [Long logs which seem to give less info than DECEvent 3.1 deleted]  E Peter, I really think you should report this to Compaq Field Service.    --
 Alan Greig    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.,   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Apr 2000 11:11:22 -0400c4 From: "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com>3 Subject: Re: Spin down hard disk on idle VMS systemn, Message-ID: <B50F7E5C-E0D543@165.247.29.153>  I On Mon, Apr 3, 2000 3:45 PM, Peter Weaver <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote:    >m >Version 1.0 emb_ertcnt 16 >emb_ertmax 16 >emb_iosb 0  >emb_sts 134,234,384 >emb_class 1 >emb_type 54 >emb_rqpid 2,161,038,088 >emb_boff 0e >emb_bcnt 0e >emb_media 3,195
 >emb_unit 104o
 >emb_errcnt 3m >emb_opcnt 1 >emb_ownuic x0001 0004 >emb_char x1C45 5808 >emb_slave 0 >emb_func 2,056e >emb_name_len 6r >emb_name $1$DGA >emb_dtname_len 9s >emb_dtname DEC HSG80t  C This looks almost oonixy.  How come oonix weenies hate writing codeg= that lines stuff up in columns so it's easier to read?  Sigh.*     ---------------------------* Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 09:36:19 -0400v0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>% Subject: Re: Suggestion for authorize3/ Message-ID: <38E9EFD3.2B2E8C20@vl.videotron.ca>v   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > > $allin1/NOINIT > E > True. However, All-in-1 was DECpaq's most expensive layered product E > license. All-in-1 sites are now even more rare than they ever were.(  N But at one point, when they introduced a personal ALL-IN-1 licence, it becauseL a VERY good deal. For a few hundred bucks, you not only got Allin1, but also4 Message Router, CDA converter library, and DECnotes.  E The VMS system management hooks into Allin1 are worth the cost alone.w   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Apr 2000 03:09:01 -0400 4 From: "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Time services+ Message-ID: <B50F0D4F-C645F0@165.247.42.15>h  J On Mon, Apr 3, 2000 4:19 AM, Chris Casey <Chris.Casey@HendersonNOSPAM.com> wrote:J >I would like to try and gauge what percentage of VMS systems use DTSS and/ >whether there are any other options available. 7 >Does anyone have any opinions on this product/service? D >I am being told that it is complex to set up - does this ring true? >r4 >One specific question - is this reliant on DECNET ?2 >If so what would one use on a totally TCP system?  G I seem to have a better opinion of Decnet plus than most in this group. G I first used it with VMS 7.1, and it basically installed and configured E itself.  The existing decnet phase IV configurations were pretty muchaI converted automatically.  I had a few small problems, but I'm not certainu$ the old configurations were correct.  F Maybe our DECnet needs are less demanding than some folks.  I've never- had to deal with decnet routing, for example.i  E The DECnet-plus manuals are fairly complete, but it is a complicated oE product so there is a lot of documentation to wade through.  The hard I part for me was figuring out which 80% I could safely ignore.  The syntaxtH is totally different from old DECnet, which is very annoying for the old hands.  F DTSS was nearly trivial for me to set up.  My main concern was to keepH all the nodes in two clusters synchronized.  I made one node into a DTSSF server, and all the others are clerks.  (If you do this, you will wantF to change a "required servers" parameter to 1 in DTSS, or learn how to@ suppress the "too few servers detected" message in DECnet plus.)F DECnet-plus allows decnet-over-tcpip, which lets my remote cluster getK the DTSS time info even though classical decnet is disabled in the routers.e/ Everyone stays synchronized now with no effort.c  F Later I found an example program that gets the time from an NTP serverI and feeds it to my DTSS server. That keeps my clusters from drifting awayyJ from the rest of the world.  The old program seemed to be intended for VAXG C, but some adjustment of the compiling and liking instructions made itt work% pretty easily with a modern compiler.=  E If DTSS is running, it disables the SET TIME command and makes you doIG time changes within DTSS. Like most decnet-plus commands, it is a whole K screen wide, and you can't remember it without a cheat sheet.  (But I think=H I've only used it 2 or 3 times, and I can't remember anything I use that seldom.)  K DTSS can do fancier things like examine times from multiple servers, weightcE them based on their relative errors, check for strange conditions and G try to react sensibly.  It can drift clocks forward or backward so thatlE most applications won't see disturbing jumps in the time. (This wouldr= be bad if any applications depend on precise time intervals.)s  K Oh, DTSS does handle dalylight savings time changes with zero intervention. G That must have been enabled by default, I didn't do anything to turn ith on.e   ---------------------------u Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comi   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 09:00:04 -03001 From: "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com>t Subject: RE: Time servicesK Message-ID: <F150836441C5D311A11700508B6FF01A595217@bdant024.bda.bobda.com>    > ----------9 > From: 	Robert Deininger[SMTP:rdeininger@mindspring.com]a > ? > Oh, DTSS does handle dalylight savings time changes with zeron > intervention."I > That must have been enabled by default, I didn't do anything to turn ite > on.u >  > L DTSS is started at machine startup and comes automatically prepared for DST,K I would still recommend checking it and keeping up to date with the patchesiK there have been a lot for DTSS especially when Europe changed when it movesa to DST.w  "   MC  NCL  SHOW  NEXT  TDF  CHANGE  / keep an eye on this for your particular region.a - Darren    F **********************************************************************C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and J may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.M They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom theycL are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copyingo of this message is prohibited.   Bank of BermudaeF **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 09:07:34 +02008 From: "Johan Devos" <johan dot devos (at) barco dot com>2 Subject: Re: VAX-Macro problems on Alpha VMS 7.2-1I Message-ID: <E472188161D5D311B08700105AF4CAAA0118DF11@kuumex03.barco.com>T  E I already received a message from John Reagan (Compaq Pascal/Macro-32aI Project Leader) confirming the bug in all the 2-operand autoincrement anduC autodecrement f_floating instructions (ADDF2, SUBF2, MULF2, DIVF2).   K As temporary workaround, the 3-operand version can be used, but Compaq will ( make a official fix as soon as possible.   Thanks for the quick response,   Johan Devosh   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 13:29:13 -1300g- From: John Reagan <reagan@hiyall.zko.dec.com>=2 Subject: Re: VAX-Macro problems on Alpha VMS 7.2-12 Message-ID: <38E9EE29.467353A9@hiyall.zko.dec.com>   Johan Devos wrote: > G > I already received a message from John Reagan (Compaq Pascal/Macro-32=K > Project Leader) confirming the bug in all the 2-operand autoincrement and-E > autodecrement f_floating instructions (ADDF2, SUBF2, MULF2, DIVF2).g > M > As temporary workaround, the 3-operand version can be used, but Compaq willg* > make a official fix as soon as possible. >   > Thanks for the quick response, > 
 > Johan Devos"  
 To clarify...e  B The Macro-32 compiler does not directly support any floating point5 operations.  There are a set of macros in STARLET.MLBeB (AMAC_FLT$MACROS.MAR) that provide some emulation of many floatingB instructions.  For V7.2, the macros and floating emulation supportH underwent extensive rework to fix various problems.  However, the rework4 didn't properly consider operands with side-effects.  G So for ADDF2 (actually, any 2-operand floating opcode), the macros turn    	ADDF2	(R5),(R6)+    into   	MOVL	(R5), R16w 	MOVL	(R6)+, R17 	CALL	AMAC$FLT_ADDF- 	MOVL	R18, (R6)+  G you can see that the ADDF2 macro just used its 2nd operand untouched asgG both an input operand and an output operand.  That would be fine except ? for the operands with side-effects (ie, auto-inc and auto-dec).0  F If the 3-operand version is used, (ie, ADDF3 (R5),(R6),(R6)+) then the( resulting macro expansion would be fine.  G The macros will be corrected to detect auto-inc/auto-dec and strip them8 off the correct use.  E So the 2-operand floating instructions work except for the cases that1D involve auto-inc/auto-dec on the 2nd-operand (ie, the read and writeG operand).  Note that 2-operand integer instructions work just fine evennE with auto-inc and auto-dec operands.  Its just the floating 2-operandeE instructions (ADDF2, ADDD2, ADDG2, DIVF2, DIVD2, DIVG2, MULF2, MULD2,  MULG2, SUBF2, SUBD2, SUBG2)  -   John Reagant   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Apr 2000 10:54:25 -0400-4 From: "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com>9 Subject: Re: VMS today: % users x-widnows vs VT terminalse, Message-ID: <B50F7A66-DFE72B@165.247.29.153>  E On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 5:40 PM, Bryan Jensen <bjj+3@arlvax.arl.psu.edu>T wrote:  J >My users would do well to use screen on their VMS workstations - it wouldI >save them a lot of time when DECwindows crashes (daily) taking all theireI >terminal sessions with it.  But they are resistant to change.  Please noYF >flames if you don't use OpenGL, you have no idea what a nightmare VMS >is when you add Open3D.  F Have you explored (big) increases in process quotas for the DECwindowsH server process?  Doing this pretty much eliminated our random DECwindowsC crashes.  If Open3D doesn't give you any advice about this, you cannF make some guesses and see if things improve.  I don't have the info onE the top of my head, but I could dig through some old notes.  Email mer if interested.     ---------------------------g Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.coma   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 12:49:09 GMTn. From: Michael Austin <maustin@nc.prestige.net>2 Subject: Re: We be the BIG PAINFUL OUCH in dot com/ Message-ID: <38E9F12D.23ABBEF9@nc.prestige.net>a  Q And the moral to the story is:  Use Alpha, OpenVMS and StorageWorks and life willa	 be grand!n   Mike.c   Rob Young wrote:  / > Ouch.. This one has to hurt.  Check this out:t >s& > http://www.gis.net/whathappened.html >TQ > "The question was why did this filesystem fail, when the RAID technology shouldl8 > force the system to use a redundant copy of the data." > > >         Uhhh... because you forgot to apply the Jumbo Patch? >aI > "In particular the /var filesystem, which contains other files that areaO > critical. We broke this mirror too, but we weren't so lucky in recovering the 	 > files."t >eE >         Ummm... luck has nothing to do with it Chucky... you forgot / >         to apply the Jumbo Patch, didn't you?e >nI > "We then started to mount some additional filesystems and ran into moreo > trouble."  >SD >         Well no kidding... bet money you forgot to apply the Jumbo >         Patch. >iM > "With the assistance of Sun storage engineers, we attempted to recosntitutevQ > this filesystem several different ways. Unfortunately, we were not successful."e >eJ >         Guess if you had applied the Jumbo Patch you would be a success. >aI > "At this point, we had a fully running system, but we had lost the home-* > directories and e-mail was flooding in." >a7 >         Pop the champagne corks, you are almost home.r >rH > "So why did this happen? It looks like a failure of Sun's RAID storage >  manager called DiskSuite."- >-H >         I'll tell you why it happened.  You bought into a myth... look> >         at your intro, psychologists would have a field day: > C > "We call this thing "the BMW" because it sells for over $70,000."n >sG >         Nice and fast and shiny.  Little boys and their toys perhaps? E >         But back to the real reason why it happened.  You forgot tos  >         apply the Jumbo Patch. >y1 > "What can we do to prevent this in the future?"e >eE >         Ummm .. buy a reliable storage subsystem?  And buy productspN >         that work (might have to give up on the BMW idea and go for a legacyL >         product)   And by all means keep up to date on your Jumbo Patches. > E > "While this RAID product may have turned out to be a piece of junk"< >eD >         Ouch... that hurt.  But hey, it looks good and people like  >         things that look good. >E5 > We have already ordered a "backup for the backup, "t >tD >         Ordered a backup for the backup?  I'm going to puke.  BeenH >         talking to the eBay folks or what?  Must be nice to have a BMW' >         in the garage "just in case".f > , >         So just what caused your problems? >ON > "We are running the current version, but Sun tells us they have a patch that! > has fixed some known problems."d >rN >         Why how convenient, ye old Jumbo Patch!  The *exact* same thing theyJ >         told the eBay folks and they bought it hook line and sinker too.K >         Guess you got to believe in those BMWs!  You have no choice.  You,P >         spent too much to turn back now.  The whole concept of needing a patchB >         reminds me of story I read recently, that a friend sent: >eI > This story is credited to David Greisilng of the Chicago Tribune, whichM" > appeared in Curmudgeon's Corner. > I > In 1895, a railroad customer complained about a bedbug bite he suffered H > while sleeping aboard a Pullman Palace Car.  He received an apologeticH > letter from the corresponding secretary to Chicago rail magnate GeorgeM > Pullman himself.  The letter explained bedbug bites were extermely rare andaA > the car in question had been fumigated and returned to service.p >ML > The effect was spoiled by a handwritten note the Pullman official wrote toI > his secretary.  "Sarah," it read, "Send this S.O.B. the bedbug letter."  >iL >         Sun engineer:  "Boss, we got a big problem here, they are down and% >                         corrupted."a >g< >         Sun Boss:    "Quick, tell them the bed bug story." > . >         Sun engineer:  "What you mean boss?" >AL >         Sun Boss:       "Oh yeah, you're new here.  Tell them they haven't4 >                         applied the latest patch." > & >         Sun engineer:  "What patch?" >iB >         Sun Boss:   "The one you are about to start working on." > % >                                 Robt   ------------------------------  * Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:27:59 -0400 (EDT)+ From: Mike Goumans <mgoumans@atmcanada.com>e2 Subject: Re: We be the BIG PAINFUL OUCH in dot comI Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1000404102624.19892L-100000@bgp.atmcanada.com>e  # Or dont forgot those Jumbo Patches.p  H This is quite typical for most people though. When things go wrong, justI as much effort in blaming other people is exerted as is  spent fixing the 	 problem. r  E Im all fine with Software RAID in some respects, but a hardware basedu8 solution would have probably done them somewhat better.       ) On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, Michael Austin wrote:a  S > And the moral to the story is:  Use Alpha, OpenVMS and StorageWorks and life willb > be grand!  >  > Mike.f >  > Rob Young wrote: > 1 > > Ouch.. This one has to hurt.  Check this out:i > >l( > > http://www.gis.net/whathappened.html > >pS > > "The question was why did this filesystem fail, when the RAID technology shouldi: > > force the system to use a redundant copy of the data." > >r@ > >         Uhhh... because you forgot to apply the Jumbo Patch? > > K > > "In particular the /var filesystem, which contains other files that aretQ > > critical. We broke this mirror too, but we weren't so lucky in recovering thec > > files."  > >mG > >         Ummm... luck has nothing to do with it Chucky... you forgoto1 > >         to apply the Jumbo Patch, didn't you?o > >nK > > "We then started to mount some additional filesystems and ran into more.
 > > trouble."D > > F > >         Well no kidding... bet money you forgot to apply the Jumbo > >         Patch. > >iO > > "With the assistance of Sun storage engineers, we attempted to recosntitute S > > this filesystem several different ways. Unfortunately, we were not successful."l > >eL > >         Guess if you had applied the Jumbo Patch you would be a success. > >fK > > "At this point, we had a fully running system, but we had lost the home , > > directories and e-mail was flooding in." > >R9 > >         Pop the champagne corks, you are almost home.) > >aJ > > "So why did this happen? It looks like a failure of Sun's RAID storage > >  manager called DiskSuite."s > >tJ > >         I'll tell you why it happened.  You bought into a myth... look@ > >         at your intro, psychologists would have a field day: > >mE > > "We call this thing "the BMW" because it sells for over $70,000."s > >oI > >         Nice and fast and shiny.  Little boys and their toys perhaps?iG > >         But back to the real reason why it happened.  You forgot to " > >         apply the Jumbo Patch. > >f3 > > "What can we do to prevent this in the future?": > >eG > >         Ummm .. buy a reliable storage subsystem?  And buy productsgP > >         that work (might have to give up on the BMW idea and go for a legacyN > >         product)   And by all means keep up to date on your Jumbo Patches. > >AG > > "While this RAID product may have turned out to be a piece of junk"a > >iF > >         Ouch... that hurt.  But hey, it looks good and people like" > >         things that look good. > > 7 > > We have already ordered a "backup for the backup, "F > >,F > >         Ordered a backup for the backup?  I'm going to puke.  BeenJ > >         talking to the eBay folks or what?  Must be nice to have a BMW) > >         in the garage "just in case".e > >h. > >         So just what caused your problems? > >sP > > "We are running the current version, but Sun tells us they have a patch that# > > has fixed some known problems."n > >LP > >         Why how convenient, ye old Jumbo Patch!  The *exact* same thing theyL > >         told the eBay folks and they bought it hook line and sinker too.M > >         Guess you got to believe in those BMWs!  You have no choice.  YoutR > >         spent too much to turn back now.  The whole concept of needing a patchD > >         reminds me of story I read recently, that a friend sent: > > K > > This story is credited to David Greisilng of the Chicago Tribune, whicht$ > > appeared in Curmudgeon's Corner. > >AK > > In 1895, a railroad customer complained about a bedbug bite he suffered,J > > while sleeping aboard a Pullman Palace Car.  He received an apologeticJ > > letter from the corresponding secretary to Chicago rail magnate GeorgeO > > Pullman himself.  The letter explained bedbug bites were extermely rare andtC > > the car in question had been fumigated and returned to service.  > >mN > > The effect was spoiled by a handwritten note the Pullman official wrote toK > > his secretary.  "Sarah," it read, "Send this S.O.B. the bedbug letter."l > >oN > >         Sun engineer:  "Boss, we got a big problem here, they are down and' > >                         corrupted."w > > > > >         Sun Boss:    "Quick, tell them the bed bug story." > >t0 > >         Sun engineer:  "What you mean boss?" > >oN > >         Sun Boss:       "Oh yeah, you're new here.  Tell them they haven't6 > >                         applied the latest patch." > >s( > >         Sun engineer:  "What patch?" > >-D > >         Sun Boss:   "The one you are about to start working on." > >h' > >                                 Robe >  >    ------------------------------  " Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 15:04:28 GMT* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)2 Subject: Re: We be the BIG PAINFUL OUCH in dot com& Message-ID: <2000Apr4.110428.1@eisner>  w In article <Pine.GSO.3.96.1000404102624.19892L-100000@bgp.atmcanada.com>, Mike Goumans <mgoumans@atmcanada.com> writes:c% > Or dont forgot those Jumbo Patches.h > J > This is quite typical for most people though. When things go wrong, justK > as much effort in blaming other people is exerted as is  spent fixing thei > problem. c > G > Im all fine with Software RAID in some respects, but a hardware based': > solution would have probably done them somewhat better.  >   F 	Hardware?  Ummm, not always... several back and forth discussions in D 	this group and if I may dredge up a recent post by one of THE best:   Newsgroup: comp.os.vms( Subject: Re: Questions about Shadow Sets Date: 03/15/2000% Author: kparris <kparris@my-deja.com>e    ,  young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) wrote:.  > "HBVS , we don't need no stinkin' HBVS!!!!"  >>  > Okay... wait until a cache module BLOWS OUT. Doesn't happen4  > that often you say? Maybe not. It happened to me.   K Happened to me, too.  Having a second shadowset member at the opposite site N meant the cluster continued to run and the users never noticed. After hardware, repair and a shadow copy all was well again.   M I also had two incidents where after a hardware failure on one controller theDI other one failed to take over and serve the disk units. That has the same-M effect in practice -- loss of access to all the units behind the controller. TC The same HBVS protection saved the day for these two failures also.i   L I now treat dual-redundant controller pairs as a single point of failure and( plan cluster configurations accordingly.I  -----------------------------------------------------------------------  H  Keith Parris|Integrity Computing,Inc.|parris@decuserve.decus.org-nospamH  VMS Consulting: Clusters, Perf., Alpha porting, Storage&I/O, Internals    ----  C 	So I will agree on Sun's approach, you DO want to span controllersn@ 	if you can afford it (I am not totally against hardware RAID in9 	fact I find it more appealing to have hardware mirroringtG 	for my system disk .. for now.  Also hardware RAID1 on other critical  @ 	disks that don't contain production databases.  The production D 	databases are a differnt story, shadowing (software RAID1) rules!).  F 	Problem is with software RAID1, not all OSes are up to the challenge.  F 	Also, as we both noticed ... you gotta keep up on your Jumbo Patches,2 	and those patches that are in production too! ;-)   				Robe   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 16:47:42 GMT* From: d.webb@mdx.ac.uk2 Subject: Re: We be the BIG PAINFUL OUCH in dot com) Message-ID: <8cd6b7$8fp$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   
 In article> <Pine.GSO.3.96.1000404102624.19892L-100000@bgp.atmcanada.com>,, Mike Goumans <mgoumans@atmcanada.com> wrote:% > Or dont forgot those Jumbo Patches.x >bE > This is quite typical for most people though. When things go wrong,c justF > as much effort in blaming other people is exerted as is spent fixing the 
 > problem. >mG > Im all fine with Software RAID in some respects, but a hardware basedy9 > solution would have probably done them somewhat better.w >  >a  F Not so sure about that. We just had a problem with a Sun hardware raid1 system. Had a disk go on a raid 5 set in a A1000.  Simple yes ? Hot swappable ?@ Sun engineer came up with new disk. But instead of replacing the2 busted disk he removed it and then put it back in.C On our storageworks systems this would be no problem - I have often  reseated disks.vC However on the A1000 it tried to rebuild the raid set automaticallydD - came up with lots of write errors and decided that another disk in the raid set was bad.sA So now we have two disks gone in the raid set. The engineer spentoD hours then trying to get the raid array to see the second disk as ok> (he assumed that it was really ok but was just marked as bad).@ We eventually just replaced both disks and restored from backup.  B Now it is just conceivable that the second disk really had died at+ that precise moment but I somehow doubt it.A  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.w   ------------------------------  " Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 17:14:37 GMT* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)2 Subject: Re: We be the BIG PAINFUL OUCH in dot com& Message-ID: <2000Apr4.131437.1@eisner>  B In article <8cd6b7$8fp$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, d.webb@mdx.ac.uk writes: > In article@ > <Pine.GSO.3.96.1000404102624.19892L-100000@bgp.atmcanada.com>,. > Mike Goumans <mgoumans@atmcanada.com> wrote:& >> Or dont forgot those Jumbo Patches. >>F >> This is quite typical for most people though. When things go wrong, > justG >> as much effort in blaming other people is exerted as is spent fixingn > the  >> problem.l >>H >> Im all fine with Software RAID in some respects, but a hardware based: >> solution would have probably done them somewhat better. >> >> > H > Not so sure about that. We just had a problem with a Sun hardware raid3 > system. Had a disk go on a raid 5 set in a A1000.o > Simple yes ? Hot swappable ?B > Sun engineer came up with new disk. But instead of replacing the4 > busted disk he removed it and then put it back in.E > On our storageworks systems this would be no problem - I have often  > reseated disks.-E > However on the A1000 it tried to rebuild the raid set automatically F > - came up with lots of write errors and decided that another disk in > the raid set was bad.eC > So now we have two disks gone in the raid set. The engineer spent F > hours then trying to get the raid array to see the second disk as ok@ > (he assumed that it was really ok but was just marked as bad).B > We eventually just replaced both disks and restored from backup. > D > Now it is just conceivable that the second disk really had died at- > that precise moment but I somehow doubt it.G >   : 	They both die at the same time more than you can imagine.  ? 	At a site recently (last year) when we examined the log files,wB 	one disk kicked out, spare picked up and less than a SECOND later> 	another drive blew out, third party raid controller, not even? 	a SUN part!  RAID5 is *very* scary!  Quite some time to do the = 	restore.. shortly after that all drives replaced one at timeh< 	with new drives.  Lesson: don't use cheap drives, don't use< 	cheap controllers, don't use cheap stuff.  You get what you	 	pay for.-   				Rob-   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 15:58:53 GMTt( From: merritt.robert@sbe.saskatoon.sk.ca) Subject: X windows client server questions) Message-ID: <8cd3fi$581$1@nnrp1.deja.com>a  @ Hi i have a Xscursion client on my pc with sessions starting via     Rexec where I get this message:e? 4/4/00  9:04:31 AM  X Application Startup   Information  rexec:h connection succeeded; 4/4/00  9:04:31 AM  X Application Startup   Information  OKi7 4/4/00  9:04:32 AM  X Application Startup   Information    Rsh where I get this message:d@ 4/4/00  9:05:18 AM  X Application Startup   Error        Network/ routine connect() failed, error = ECONNREFUSED.e  > the Rexec session doesn't give an error but no xwindow pops up: Rsh gives an conncetion refused error ??? what server side config needs tweaking???????    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.f   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 08:34:25 -0500* From: "Mark-Simon Pope" <mpope@bristol.ca> Subject: ZIP/UNZIP0 Message-ID: <CbmG4.2482$TC1.38122@news1.mts.net>  7 I need to zip up some directories on our VAX (Ovms 7.1)   C I've found ZIP.EXE and UNZIP.EXE in sys$system but I can't find anyt documentation.   Mark-S. Pope   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 15:47:07 +0200 (CEST)f: From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl> Subject: Re: ZIP/UNZIPK Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10004041544360.22000-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>l  * On Tue, 4 Apr 2000, Mark-Simon Pope wrote:  8 +I need to zip up some directories on our VAX (Ovms 7.1) +eD +I've found ZIP.EXE and UNZIP.EXE in sys$system but I can't find any +documentation.   (  Then someone must copy the files here !2  ZIP and UNZIP are a freeware utility, check b.ex.7 http://www2.wku.edu/www/fileserv/fileserv-software.htmli>  or - if you have the fulll vms pack - one named "freeware" :)  
 +Mark-S. Popes      Regards - Gotfryd   --E =====================================================================eF $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEt. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================v   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 12:41:10 GMTd. From: Michael Austin <maustin@nc.prestige.net> Subject: Re: ZIP/UNZIP/ Message-ID: <38E9EF50.F574A5C5@nc.prestige.net>   D if you run them without any parameters or qualifiers it wil give you
 instructions.    Michael Austin DBA/SysAdmin/VMS-Web consultantr   Mark-Simon Pope wrote:  9 > I need to zip up some directories on our VAX (Ovms 7.1)  >nE > I've found ZIP.EXE and UNZIP.EXE in sys$system but I can't find any  > documentation. >  > Mark-S. Pope   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 16:27:53 +0200O= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>h Subject: Re: ZIP/UNZIP( Message-ID: <38E9FBE9.67095B7@gtech.com>   Mark-Simon Pope wrote:9 > I need to zip up some directories on our VAX (Ovms 7.1)d > E > I've found ZIP.EXE and UNZIP.EXE in sys$system but I can't find anys > documentation.  	 $ MCR ZIPM   andu   $ MCR UNZIP.  , should provide you with the necedsarry info.   Arne   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.189 ************************