1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 06 Apr 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 193       Contents: Re: "Galaxy" on Intel? Re: "Galaxy" on Intel? Re: "Galaxy" on Intel?+ Re: AUTOGEN values not adjusted post-reboot + Re: AUTOGEN values not adjusted post-reboot ' Re: boot DS10 with no keyboard/terminal ' Re: boot DS10 with no keyboard/terminal ( Compaq leadership (German) and the Eurex Displaying Errors om 7.2 RE: Displaying Errors om 7.2 Re: Displaying Errors om 7.2 Re: Displaying Errors om 7.2* Examining data members in C++ debugsession2 Re: Galaxy (or perhaps Wildfire) and shared memory2 Re: Galaxy (or perhaps Wildfire) and shared memory2 Re: Galaxy (or perhaps Wildfire) and shared memory2 Re: Galaxy (or perhaps Wildfire) and shared memory Re: In need for a console  Re: Inform & VMS Re: Inform & VMS" Re: Initiatalizing a Printer Queue" Re: Initiatalizing a Printer Queue7 Re: localtime() function C RTL don't agree w/ show time 7 Re: localtime() function C RTL don't agree w/ show time 7 Re: localtime() function C RTL don't agree w/ show time 7 Re: localtime() function C RTL don't agree w/ show time  Re: OpenVMS Times  Re: OpenVMS Times  Re: OpenVMS Times  RE: OpenVMS Times  Re: OpenVMS Times  Re: OpenVMS Times  Re: OpenVMS Times  Re: OpenVMS Times  RE: OpenVMS Times  Re: OpenVMS Times  Re: OpenVMS Times $ OpenVMS/Alpha/C Programmer (Bermuda)" Re: Pascal Compile-TIme stack dump Re: Portable unformatted files Re: Pro*C on VMS Re: Pro*C on VMS Re: Pro*C on VMS& Problem with upgrade from 7.1 -> 7.2-1* Re: Problem with upgrade from 7.1 -> 7.2-1* Re: Problem with upgrade from 7.1 -> 7.2-1* Re: Problem with upgrade from 7.1 -> 7.2-1* Re: Problem with upgrade from 7.1 -> 7.2-1* Re: Problem with upgrade from 7.1 -> 7.2-1+ Searching for documentation on utc library.  show sublocks of a given lock  Re: So who will buy VMS ?  Re: So who will buy VMS ?  Re: So who will buy VMS ?  Re: So who will buy VMS ?  Re: So who will buy VMS ?  Re: So who will buy VMS ?  Re: So who will buy VMS ?  Re: So who will buy VMS ?  Re: So who will buy VMS ?  Re: So who will buy VMS ?  Re: So who will buy VMS ?  Re: So who will buy VMS ?  Re: So who will buy VMS ?  Re: So who will buy VMS ?  Re: So who will buy VMS ?  SSH for VMS  Re: SSH for VMS  Re: SSH for VMS " Sun considers VMS a "mainframe" OS& Re: Sun considers VMS a "mainframe" OS& Re: Sun considers VMS a "mainframe" OS& Re: Task to task READ/ERROR/TIME_OUT=x) Re: VAX-Macro problems on Alpha VMS 7.2-1 $ Warning: circuitsurgeon is a ripoff!( Re: Warning: circuitsurgeon is a ripoff!! What is  %SYSTEM-F-ASTFLT error ? ! What is  %SYSTEM-F-ASTFLT error ? % Re: Wierd Elsa Gloria Synergy Problem  Re: Zip file error  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 00:24:23 -0700/ From: "Rick Campbell" <rickca.AT@speakeasy.org>  Subject: Re: "Galaxy" on Intel? . Message-ID: <seoet7tfrfg62@corp.supernews.com>   Sounds like VMWare to me.    http://www.vmware.com   K It allows you to run Linux, Win9x, WinNT, Win2K at the same time.  The host $ OS must be either Linux or WinNT/2K.    B "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message' news:38EBFC89.EA38502E@earthlink.net... I > A fellow I now work with told me aout a coming product which will allow H > the simultaneous running of W/9x, Linux, etc. on Intel-based machines.< > He didn't know the product name/vendor, he just remembered > hearing/reading about it.  > I > Sounded to me like "Galaxy" on Intel. Not sure what the value would be.  > ' > ...and of course, VMS won't be there.  >  > *SIGH* >  > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems $ > http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/ > < > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:- > http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 00:44:03 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: "Galaxy" on Intel? - Message-ID: <38EC1613.8E0259DC@tsoft-inc.com>    "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > I > A fellow I now work with told me aout a coming product which will allow H > the simultaneous running of W/9x, Linux, etc. on Intel-based machines.< > He didn't know the product name/vendor, he just remembered > hearing/reading about it.  > I > Sounded to me like "Galaxy" on Intel. Not sure what the value would be.  > ' > ...and of course, VMS won't be there.  >  > *SIGH* >  > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems $ > http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/ > < > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:- > http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/   I With sub-$1000 Intel based systems available, and the current practice of P running multiple systems to support one applications, (as an example, a web siteO with multiple web serving systems and a seperate database system), I cannot see F any practical benefit of such a product.  Technically interesting, but definitely not mainstream.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596; 170 Grimplin Road               E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  " Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 16:47:38 GMT0 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <shannon@world.std.com> Subject: Re: "Galaxy" on Intel? & Message-ID: <FsLswJ.2Ds@world.std.com>  B "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message' news:38EBFC89.EA38502E@earthlink.net... I > A fellow I now work with told me aout a coming product which will allow H > the simultaneous running of W/9x, Linux, etc. on Intel-based machines.< > He didn't know the product name/vendor, he just remembered > hearing/reading about it.  > I > Sounded to me like "Galaxy" on Intel. Not sure what the value would be.  >   D Plenty o' value... heck, you could run Gates-Galaxy with 18 Weiner982 instances, and watch 'em all crash simultaneously!   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 00:57:03 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>4 Subject: Re: AUTOGEN values not adjusted post-reboot- Message-ID: <38EC191F.5247BE4E@tsoft-inc.com>   # gboulton@bigfoot.com.invalid wrote:  > @ > System is - AlphaStation 200, 96Mb RAM, OpenVMS 7.2 (Hobbyist)2 > User is - Fluent in Unix, baffled by OpenVMS :-) > L > I'm getting a problem after installing DEC C from the OpenVMS distributionH > CD. I was quite happily compiling away, remotely, when I realised thatG > DECwindows on the console had quit and dumped out to text console. It F > reported that GBLSECTIONS was 243 and needed to be 280. And it keeps2 > reporting the same thing after any reboots, too. > F > So... I edited SYS$SYSTEM:MODPARAMS.DAT and added ADD_GBLSECTIONS=60I > (http://www.openvms.digital.com/commercial/c/igalp.htm said this syntax J > would increase the global sections setting by 60, which should suffice).  M As 2 others have already pointed out, the use of "MIN_" instead of the "ADD_" M prefix will be less ambigious.  I've never used the "ADD_" prefix.  Note that N additional statements further down the list in MODPARAMS.DAT will override anyJ prior statements, so Hoff's suggestion to delete any 'cruff' is excellent.  
 > Then did& > $ @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN GETDATA REBOOTL > and after some churning, the rebooted system came back and reported that IF > needed 280 GBLSECTIONS, not 243. It hadn't changed! :-(  Also tried:/ > $ @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN GETDATA REBOOT FEEDBACK @ > but that just reported that FEEDBACK was an invalid parameter. > H > I checked SYS$SYSTEM:PARAMS.DAT, and my changes in MODPARAMS.DAT _are_L > getting integrated, but no new setting is going into effect over a reboot. > H > Can I get my GBLSECTIONS increased? If so, how, given that the Compaq-G > prescribed method isn't doing anything for me? Come to that, what are J > (GBL)SECTIONS? I see references to PAGES in the FAQ, but not SECTIONS...E > My hunch was something along the lines of my machine running out of H > memory (but then why not page out some other little stuff that's still > running/idling?)  L A global section is just one or more global pages.  In addition to having toM specify the maximum global pages the system can use, you also have to specify O the maximum number of sections allowed.  Probably has to do with setting up the P size of the list used to track global sections during system initialization.  IfN you really want the specifics, there is the VMS internals manual(s), which can5 be interesting reading but not useful for most users.   J > I was able to get back to DECwindows by removing some startup stuff fromN > SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM, and start it manually afterwards, but I'd rather know howM > to make the system genuinely happy. Given my complete ineptitude in OpenVMS I > I'm (reluctantly) somewhat reliant on having a GUI available until I've  > worked everything out. > & > Any and all advice/info appreciated! > Thanx 	 > :Gareth  > --? >  Gravissima calamitas umquam supra           | Gareth Boulton 0 >  Occidentem accidens erat religio Christiana |I >       [Gore Vidal, 1987 CE]                  | gboulton(@)bigfoot(.)com    Enjoy your VMS experiences.    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596; 170 Grimplin Road               E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 16:37:59 GMT " From: gboulton@bigfoot.com.invalid4 Subject: Re: AUTOGEN values not adjusted post-reboot1 Message-ID: <H33H4.390$PU.74444@news.pacbell.net>   + David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote: G >> reported that GBLSECTIONS was 243 and needed to be 280. And it keeps 3 >> reporting the same thing after any reboots, too.  >>  G >> So... I edited SYS$SYSTEM:MODPARAMS.DAT and added ADD_GBLSECTIONS=60   O > As 2 others have already pointed out, the use of "MIN_" instead of the "ADD_" O > prefix will be less ambigious.  I've never used the "ADD_" prefix.  Note that P > additional statements further down the list in MODPARAMS.DAT will override anyL > prior statements, so Hoff's suggestion to delete any 'cruff' is excellent.  N > A global section is just one or more global pages.  In addition to having toO > specify the maximum global pages the system can use, you also have to specify Q > the maximum number of sections allowed.  Probably has to do with setting up the R > size of the list used to track global sections during system initialization.  IfP > you really want the specifics, there is the VMS internals manual(s), which can7 > be interesting reading but not useful for most users.   M Thanks for the responses. It turns out the system had MIN_GBLSECTIONS already K set to 600, so I upped this to 700... After the reboot everything came back G as it should have... but now other things that didn't used to work now  D function (for example, displaying NS Navigator to a remote machine).  H It was getting rather disheartening having all the basic problems that IJ experienced on VMS, but now that things have suddenly started behaving the/ way they should, I think I'm going to enjoy it.   I Now all I have to do is work out how to do a recursive copy without using  COPY/RCP... :-)    Thanx again. :Gareth  --  >  Gravissima calamitas umquam supra           | Gareth Boulton /  Occidentem accidens erat religio Christiana |  G       [Gore Vidal, 1987 CE]                  | gboulton(@)bigfoot(.)com    ------------------------------  " Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 06:53:28 GMT( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>0 Subject: Re: boot DS10 with no keyboard/terminal' Message-ID: <FsL1t4.3tp@spcuna.spc.edu>   4 David Mathog <mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu> writes:J > How does one configure a DS10 using the SRM to boot and not hang when itK > doesn't find a keyboard/mouse?   Optimally, I'd like the boot messages to H > continue to go to the graphics adapter, but could live without that ifG > necessary.  If a keyboard/mouse are present they should be "usable".  L > That is, if I have to set console to serial or some such, I still want to K > be able to control the machine, if necessary, using a keyboard and mouse  - > and not have to plug a serial line into it.   G   "set console serial" doesn't prevent you from using the VGA/keyboard  H console. While it doesn't display anything until you press [RETURN], youF will get a ">>>" prompt if the box is sitting at the console prompt on the serial box.   I   These seem to be independent processes (what you do on one port doesn't G echo on the other) but I expect the results would be sub-optimal if you J entered conflicting commands (like "boot" on one and "init" on the other).  E   If you reset your NVRAM back to the default state, you actually get F messages out on both the VGA console and the serial port. I don't knowG of any way to get this behavior back once you do a "set console", other  than by resetting NVRAM.  - 	Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com 5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USA    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 11:04:21 -04005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> 0 Subject: Re: boot DS10 with no keyboard/terminal+ Message-ID: <8ci8u6$o1l$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>   J For most systems (with notable exceptions being some of the workstations),D the serial console line can be typed into when the console is set toH graphics.  So even if there is a KB and Mouse, you can hit return on the6 serial port and get a >>> prompt on most server boxes.  H If the console is set to graphics, and no mouse/kb is present, it should# fall back to using the serial port.   F However, when the console is set to serial, the graphics head will not function as a console.  L In all cases, DECwindows is still useable regardless of the console setting.        A David Mathog wrote in message <8cghu2$1e7@gap.cco.caltech.edu>... I >How does one configure a DS10 using the SRM to boot and not hang when it J >doesn't find a keyboard/mouse?   Optimally, I'd like the boot messages toG >continue to go to the graphics adapter, but could live without that if E >necessary.  If a keyboard/mouse are present they should be "usable". J >That is, if I have to set console to serial or some such, I still want toI >be able to control the machine, if necessary, using a keyboard and mouse , >and not have to plug a serial line into it. >  >Thanks, > 
 >David Mathog  >mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu? >Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech    ------------------------------  . Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 08:56:42 +0200 (MET DST)& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>1 Subject: Compaq leadership (German) and the Eurex / Message-ID: <200004060557.HAA01518@fom.fgan.de>    Hello,  @ during DECUS Muenchen symposium in Bonn (Germany), we did have aB discussion with the leader of Compaq (Germany). They told us, thatB the made 80% of the profit with the enterprice market and 20% withA the volume market. One of our questions was, why Compaq did loose @ Eurex. The did say: "Only a OpenVMS workstation problem (Java)."C A banker did answer, that the result is, that all banks change from C OpenVMS clusters to Sun and that Compaq will loose a lot of profit. H The answer of the leader: "We will produce, sell, what the market want."B IMHO, the leader did not understand the problem (Compaq can't sellF anymore the profit maker product). May be this in case of the thinking USA do what the want to do.    Regards Rudolf Wingert  F P.S. The best messsage came from a Compaq worker. He did say: "Stop toD      say to the OpenVMS customer, migrate to True64. It would be theF      same as Daimler would say after the Chrysler/Daimler fusion don'tD      buy Mercedes buy Chrysler. What would the customer do? He would      by BMW!!!!    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 09:29:39 -0600  From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> ! Subject: Displaying Errors om 7.2 ' Message-ID: <38ECAD63.1F42171C@srv.net>   D I have a hobbyest version of VMS 7.2 on an alpha, and I want to lookE at the error logs to see what kinds of errors it has been generating.    	ANAL/ERROR   E which works on older versions of VMS, but brings up the error message   A 	%ERF-F-CEHFND, New header format found. Install DECevent and run  conversion utility.N  H on the new version. What do you do to display the error messages in 7.2?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 12:44:31 -03001 From: "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com>s% Subject: RE: Displaying Errors om 7.21K Message-ID: <F150836441C5D311A11700508B6FF01A59526A@bdant024.bda.bobda.com>q  E As stated in the error message retrieve DECevent (latest version is IiK believe 3.1) from the Compaq web site, the basic analysis tools are license  free.n - Darren   > ----------& > From: 	Kevin Handy[SMTP:kth@srv.net]* > Sent: 	Thursday, April 06, 2000 12:29 PM > To: 	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com$ > Subject: 	Displaying Errors om 7.2 > F > I have a hobbyest version of VMS 7.2 on an alpha, and I want to lookG > at the error logs to see what kinds of errors it has been generating.a > 
 > 	ANAL/ERROR  > G > which works on older versions of VMS, but brings up the error message  > C > 	%ERF-F-CEHFND, New header format found. Install DECevent and run  > conversion utility.R > J > on the new version. What do you do to display the error messages in 7.2? >     F **********************************************************************C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential andeJ may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.M They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they L are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copying  of this message is prohibited.   Bank of BermudagF **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 10:08:59 -0600e From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>w% Subject: Re: Displaying Errors om 7.2 ' Message-ID: <38ECB69B.4E748216@srv.net>o  F Where is this found? www.compaq.com seems to me to be a twisty maze ofI web pages, all different. A search for DECevent from their pages returns  < over 7000 references, the first 50 having nothing to do with downloading. No obvious path to find it.o   "Boyle, Darren" wrote: > G > As stated in the error message retrieve DECevent (latest version is IsM > believe 3.1) from the Compaq web site, the basic analysis tools are licenses > free. 
 > - Darren >  > > ----------/ > > From:         Kevin Handy[SMTP:kth@srv.net]o3 > > Sent:         Thursday, April 06, 2000 12:29 PMf > > To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms* > > Subject:      Displaying Errors om 7.2 > >hH > > I have a hobbyest version of VMS 7.2 on an alpha, and I want to lookI > > at the error logs to see what kinds of errors it has been generating.- > >- > >       ANAL/ERROR > >AI > > which works on older versions of VMS, but brings up the error messageu > >:J > >       %ERF-F-CEHFND, New header format found. Install DECevent and run > > conversion utility.  > >tL > > on the new version. What do you do to display the error messages in 7.2? > >  > H > **********************************************************************E > This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential andEL > may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.O > They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom theymM > are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient,nD > please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.K > You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copying   > of this message is prohibited. >  > Bank of BermudayH > **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 13:32:52 -0400m1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> % Subject: Re: Displaying Errors om 7.2 2 Message-ID: <38ECCA44.FCD1472E@clarityconnect.com>  D Seemed pretty obvious to me.  From the home page click on Software &G Drivers under the Support heading and then click on Service Tools underoD the High End Business Solutions and DECevent is right there.  But to! save you time here it is directly < http://www1.service.digital.com/svctools/decevent/index.html   Kevin Handy wrote: > H > Where is this found? www.compaq.com seems to me to be a twisty maze ofJ > web pages, all different. A search for DECevent from their pages returns> > over 7000 references, the first 50 having nothing to do with > downloading. > No obvious path to find it.  >  > "Boyle, Darren" wrote: > >:I > > As stated in the error message retrieve DECevent (latest version is IsO > > believe 3.1) from the Compaq web site, the basic analysis tools are licenseu	 > > free.p > > - Darren > >e > > > ----------1 > > > From:         Kevin Handy[SMTP:kth@srv.net]d5 > > > Sent:         Thursday, April 06, 2000 12:29 PMf! > > > To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come, > > > Subject:      Displaying Errors om 7.2 > > > J > > > I have a hobbyest version of VMS 7.2 on an alpha, and I want to lookK > > > at the error logs to see what kinds of errors it has been generating.e > > >- > > >       ANAL/ERROR > > > K > > > which works on older versions of VMS, but brings up the error messagem > > >yL > > >       %ERF-F-CEHFND, New header format found. Install DECevent and run > > > conversion utility.. > > > N > > > on the new version. What do you do to display the error messages in 7.2? > > >0 > >rJ > > **********************************************************************G > > This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential andbN > > may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.Q > > They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom theyaO > > are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, F > > please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.M > > You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copying " > > of this message is prohibited. > >j > > Bank of BermudaeJ > > **********************************************************************   -- tD Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 13:26:51 +0200h" From: JBo <BoerkampJ@nospam.HR.nl>3 Subject: Examining data members in C++ debugsessionI( Message-ID: <38EC747B.1FE6@nospam.HR.nl>   Hello,  H I am trying to debug a C++ program running on an Alpha OpenVMS platform.F Examining a pointer works but I can't examen a datamember. By example:  
 Class CA {  int x;m }i   CA A;/  E Exa A in the debugger gives the right values. An exa of A.x gives thet message:H DEBUG-W-NOTRECORD, variabele is not a record; cannot select component x 2 According to the manuels to following should work:) Exa A'CA::y'  but then I get the message:A: DEBUG-E-MISINVOPER, missing or invalid operator at 'CA::y'  F What am I doing wrong? How can I examine or deposit a datamember in in class.   The environment I am using is:+ DEC C++ V5.6-0013 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.1-1H2E DEBUG Version V7.1C-000    Thanks,n   Jeroen Boerkampt   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 09:28:31 -0400n- From: norm lastovica <nlastovi@us.oracle.com>U; Subject: Re: Galaxy (or perhaps Wildfire) and shared memory - Message-ID: <38EC90FF.7EF5DD79@us.oracle.com>c  5 remember that galaxy is a software solution to createT6 partitioning.  All existing rules that make a computer8 an "Alpha" still apply.  Existing cache coherency issues8 that SMP systems deal with today are the same for shared5 memory in a galaxy.  nothing is really different.  Ifw: an application works correctly today in an SMP environment9 with shared memory (say, a global section), then it oughte6 to be a small matter to make it work correctly between9 instances using galactic shared memory (I'm assuming thatu7 the instances in the galaxy are clustered and shared a o common security environment).n   Bill Todd wrote: > L > Though Galaxy and Wildfire/Marvel seem pretty neat, some of the hopes thatL > have been expressed for them may overlook certain complexities inherent inJ > sharing memory across independent system instances executing in separateI > partitions.  Interesting applications of shared memory that may requireeH > significant re-thinking to achieve optimal results include things likeN > shared-memory DLM coordination (rather than just using shared memory to pass@ > DLM messages of the current variety) and shared-memory caches. > M > In thinking about the latter, I started wondering whether the (small) addedcJ > latency involved in fetching cache lines from non-local memory in such aK > shared-memory cache might be largely offset by the fact that once fetched H > the lines would likely remain in local processor cache, such that eachF > required line would only be fetched remotely once (given the size ofI > outermost-level processor caches these days).  That sounded pretty goodrD > until I asked myself just how multiple independent OS instances inL > partitions that might be hardware-isolated for robustness (to support trueL > cluster-in-a-box availability with no inter-instance shared failure modes)K > might allow write activity to shared memory by one instance to invalidateu3 > data in the processor caches of another instance.  > J > So my question is:  is inter-instance shared memory likely to have to beM > uncached memory to avoid such (potentially infectious) interactions?  Or is2I > it envisioned that there will be 'rules' dictating the handling of suchnG > shared memory (perhaps involving suitable lock acquisition) that willdC > eliminate the need for such cross-instance invalidation (e.g., by I > guaranteeing that any stale data in an instances caches should never beeC > accessed)?  Or am I creating a problem where none in fact exists?u >  > Thanks for any insight,S >  > - bill   -- y' norm lastovica / oracle rdb engineeringn. colorado springs, colorado, usa / 719.577.8031   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 10:58:08 -04005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>u; Subject: Re: Galaxy (or perhaps Wildfire) and shared memoryw+ Message-ID: <8ci8ih$nfn$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>   I As of this writing, memory-is-memory, and this is a software construct to.K create something called "shared" memory versus "local" memory.  The guy whowL is doing most of the lock management work is the one to comment on this typeE thing.  But I believe that the plans are to provide locks both in the J conventional way, where the shared memory is simply a transport (like a CIK or a memory channel), and it will handle failures in the same way, with theuL same robustness.  Then there are plans to allow locks to exist in the sharedF memory itself, and under those conditions I believe that you lose someJ robustness - however, the guy doing the work is a pretty clever guy...  soE you never know what he may have come up with (I can't say I have beeno2 following it, I'm kind of busy with other things).        : Bill Todd wrote in message <8cgo3b$3tf$1@pyrite.mv.net>...K >Though Galaxy and Wildfire/Marvel seem pretty neat, some of the hopes that K >have been expressed for them may overlook certain complexities inherent infI >sharing memory across independent system instances executing in separate:H >partitions.  Interesting applications of shared memory that may requireG >significant re-thinking to achieve optimal results include things likeiH >shared-memory DLM coordination (rather than just using shared memory to pass? >DLM messages of the current variety) and shared-memory caches.y >rL >In thinking about the latter, I started wondering whether the (small) addedI >latency involved in fetching cache lines from non-local memory in such arJ >shared-memory cache might be largely offset by the fact that once fetchedG >the lines would likely remain in local processor cache, such that eacheE >required line would only be fetched remotely once (given the size of H >outermost-level processor caches these days).  That sounded pretty goodC >until I asked myself just how multiple independent OS instances intK >partitions that might be hardware-isolated for robustness (to support truetK >cluster-in-a-box availability with no inter-instance shared failure modes)eJ >might allow write activity to shared memory by one instance to invalidate2 >data in the processor caches of another instance. >oI >So my question is:  is inter-instance shared memory likely to have to beuL >uncached memory to avoid such (potentially infectious) interactions?  Or isH >it envisioned that there will be 'rules' dictating the handling of suchF >shared memory (perhaps involving suitable lock acquisition) that willB >eliminate the need for such cross-instance invalidation (e.g., byH >guaranteeing that any stale data in an instances caches should never beB >accessed)?  Or am I creating a problem where none in fact exists? >e >Thanks for any insight, >m >- billc >R >b >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 13:28:13 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>p; Subject: Re: Galaxy (or perhaps Wildfire) and shared memoryn( Message-ID: <8cihcr$2m8$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 norm lastovica <nlastovi@us.oracle.com> wrote in message' news:38EC90FF.7EF5DD79@us.oracle.com... 7 > remember that galaxy is a software solution to create 8 > partitioning.  All existing rules that make a computer > an "Alpha" still apply.t  J That may be true in currently-shipping systems - as long as the failure ofC any VMS instance causes the entire box to reboot.  When you move toeI Wildfire/Marvel, it has been said that there will be hardware support forgI partitioning which will allow a single instance to fail without affectingS@ other instances (and it's possible that this is also true in the. currently-shipping Alphas too - I don't know).  !   Existing cache coherency issuesb: > that SMP systems deal with today are the same for shared7 > memory in a galaxy.  nothing is really different.  IfI< > an application works correctly today in an SMP environment; > with shared memory (say, a global section), then it oughtr8 > to be a small matter to make it work correctly between; > instances using galactic shared memory (I'm assuming thath8 > the instances in the galaxy are clustered and shared a > common security environment).-  B I think your statement above is true only insofar as it applies toE application-level failures:  if an application correctly handles suchnL failures using global sections today, it should indeed be able to handle theB same kind of failure using a partition-shared section on Wildfire.  L The problem is that VMS itself is not coded to handle such sharing problems,K because, unlike applications, until the advent of Galaxy there's never been J more than one instance of VMS running, and if that instance crashes (e.g.,K due to a hardware problem), the contents of memory becomes irrelevant.  And C this may (as noted above) still be true with Galaxy in non-WildfirelJ configurations, as long as the crash of any VMS instance causes the entire box to reboot.  H But in a Wildfire box that allows other instances to continue to run andL allows them continued access to memory shared with the failed instance, thatE shared memory will be left in a potentially inconsistent state by theeG failure.  If it's application-level shared memory the likelihood may be J small that this will introduce new failure modes, but it would surprise meF if there were really none at all (say, involving the interruption of aJ system service that in a single system was always guaranteed to complete -H unless a crash occurred - that altered that shared memory).  But if it'sB system-level shared memory (e.g., used to hold shared lock-managerF structures) there's no current code in the system to recover its stateK comparable to the code that allows multiple potentially failing applicationh# instances to share global sections.   L However, none of that was what I was worried about:  I already understand itE and have at least some idea of how to address the issue.  My questioniF concerned the expressed desire eventually to allow sufficient hardwareL partitioning to isolate running OS instances as much as they are isolated inB a conventional cluster, eliminating any (or at least a significantI enumerable set of) single points of failure in the box.  The problem then8E becomes how you do this and still support memory-sharing between sucheL isolated partitions:  if you don't allow the processors in the partitions toJ cache the shared memory, I think it's easy, but if you do allow caching ofL the shared memory, then you must hardware-couple the processor caches acrossJ the partitions (if you want to avoid stale data problems, though as I saidH you could instead legislate software policies that would avoid using anyL data that could have become stale), which would seem to introduce additionalH hardware complexity if implemented so as to continue to avoid any single point of failure.    - bill   >E > Bill Todd wrote: > >oI > > Though Galaxy and Wildfire/Marvel seem pretty neat, some of the hopesr thatK > > have been expressed for them may overlook certain complexities inherent* inL > > sharing memory across independent system instances executing in separateK > > partitions.  Interesting applications of shared memory that may requiretJ > > significant re-thinking to achieve optimal results include things likeK > > shared-memory DLM coordination (rather than just using shared memory to  passB > > DLM messages of the current variety) and shared-memory caches. > >eI > > In thinking about the latter, I started wondering whether the (small)s added L > > latency involved in fetching cache lines from non-local memory in such aE > > shared-memory cache might be largely offset by the fact that once  fetched-J > > the lines would likely remain in local processor cache, such that eachH > > required line would only be fetched remotely once (given the size ofK > > outermost-level processor caches these days).  That sounded pretty goodoF > > until I asked myself just how multiple independent OS instances inI > > partitions that might be hardware-isolated for robustness (to supporto trueG > > cluster-in-a-box availability with no inter-instance shared failure  modes)B > > might allow write activity to shared memory by one instance to
 invalidate5 > > data in the processor caches of another instance.i > >lL > > So my question is:  is inter-instance shared memory likely to have to beL > > uncached memory to avoid such (potentially infectious) interactions?  Or isK > > it envisioned that there will be 'rules' dictating the handling of such2I > > shared memory (perhaps involving suitable lock acquisition) that will E > > eliminate the need for such cross-instance invalidation (e.g., byeK > > guaranteeing that any stale data in an instances caches should never be E > > accessed)?  Or am I creating a problem where none in fact exists?, > >h > > Thanks for any insight,E > >t
 > > - bill >o > --) > norm lastovica / oracle rdb engineering 0 > colorado springs, colorado, usa / 719.577.8031   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 13:28:52 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>s; Subject: Re: Galaxy (or perhaps Wildfire) and shared memorye( Message-ID: <8cihdv$2mb$1@pyrite.mv.net>  > Fred Kleinsorge <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote in message% news:8ci8ih$nfn$1@lead.zk3.dec.com... K > As of this writing, memory-is-memory, and this is a software construct tolI > create something called "shared" memory versus "local" memory.  The guy  whoiI > is doing most of the lock management work is the one to comment on thiss typeG > thing.  But I believe that the plans are to provide locks both in the*L > conventional way, where the shared memory is simply a transport (like a CII > or a memory channel), and it will handle failures in the same way, withn thecG > same robustness.  Then there are plans to allow locks to exist in the7 sharedH > memory itself, and under those conditions I believe that you lose someL > robustness - however, the guy doing the work is a pretty clever guy...  soG > you never know what he may have come up with (I can't say I have beenu4 > following it, I'm kind of busy with other things).  J Whoops - I think I covered this in the response I just wrote elsewhere.  II believe I understand the software issues involved in sharing memory amongeF partitions, its the hardware-cachability of such shared memory and theE implications for inter-partition fault isolation (due to the requiredoH cross-partition cache-consistency hardware coupling) I was asking about.   - bill   >  >t >e >r< > Bill Todd wrote in message <8cgo3b$3tf$1@pyrite.mv.net>...H > >Though Galaxy and Wildfire/Marvel seem pretty neat, some of the hopes thatJ > >have been expressed for them may overlook certain complexities inherent inK > >sharing memory across independent system instances executing in separate J > >partitions.  Interesting applications of shared memory that may requireI > >significant re-thinking to achieve optimal results include things likeoJ > >shared-memory DLM coordination (rather than just using shared memory to > passA > >DLM messages of the current variety) and shared-memory caches.r > > H > >In thinking about the latter, I started wondering whether the (small) addedhK > >latency involved in fetching cache lines from non-local memory in such a L > >shared-memory cache might be largely offset by the fact that once fetchedI > >the lines would likely remain in local processor cache, such that each*G > >required line would only be fetched remotely once (given the size ofeJ > >outermost-level processor caches these days).  That sounded pretty goodE > >until I asked myself just how multiple independent OS instances in H > >partitions that might be hardware-isolated for robustness (to support trueF > >cluster-in-a-box availability with no inter-instance shared failure modes)L > >might allow write activity to shared memory by one instance to invalidate4 > >data in the processor caches of another instance. > >iK > >So my question is:  is inter-instance shared memory likely to have to be*K > >uncached memory to avoid such (potentially infectious) interactions?  Ore isJ > >it envisioned that there will be 'rules' dictating the handling of suchH > >shared memory (perhaps involving suitable lock acquisition) that willD > >eliminate the need for such cross-instance invalidation (e.g., byJ > >guaranteeing that any stale data in an instances caches should never beD > >accessed)?  Or am I creating a problem where none in fact exists? > >a > >Thanks for any insight, > > 	 > >- billC > >o > >r > >g >  >A   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 08:22:06 -0500m- From: Bruce Vinson <r4887c@email.sps.mot.com> " Subject: Re: In need for a console1 Message-ID: <38EC8F7E.23CDC741@email.sps.mot.com>s  H If you really need the hardware terminal, I have seen a lot of VT320/4208 recently on ebay. They usually sell between $15 and $30.   Bruce Vinson   miguel ramirez wrote:  > H >     I'm running a  microvax 3100 model 20 computer and I would like toI > know what type of console I should get.  I've been sugested to look foroI > a VT-320.  If so, where could I find one.  I am also looking for a 4206e > or 4207 tektronix terminal. B >     If anyone has any information, i would really appreciate it. > G >                                                                 thankj > you,H >                                                                 miguel   ------------------------------  . Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 08:44:07 +0200 (MET DST)& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> Subject: Re: Inform & VMSi/ Message-ID: <200004060544.HAA01045@fom.fgan.de>S   Hello,  F I did make a copy of the new one OpenVMS times magazin. I find it veryG good. Thanks to all, who have written where we can find this PDF files.vG The best news I found was, that here in Europa OpenVMS growth with 62%.b   Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 08:36:58 -0500 (CDT)a& From: Drew Shelton <drew@sematech.org> Subject: Re: Inform & VMSn- Message-ID: <01JNWR3HKODU0022WO@SEMATECH.Org>   ! norm.raphael@jamesbury.com wrote:    >This should improve your day.  % >The Spring issue of OpenVMS Times isy; >now up on the web site in PDF and PS format and soon HTML.a  C >    <URL:  http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvmstimes/index.html>   E Why are the VMS articles relegated to a separate newsletter?  Why notn1 include them in INFORM and increase the audience?i   Drew  L ============================================================================6 Drew Shelton                         drew@sematech.org9 VMS Systems Manager                  office: 512-356-7575o9 Sematech                             fax:    512-356-7600e 2706 Montopolis Drive K Austin, TX 78741-6499                I speak for myself only, not Sematech.tB     "OpenVMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT v8.0 to be!"I                                                         - Compaq, 9/22/98oL ============================================================================   ------------------------------  " Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 12:44:18 GMT From: briggs@eisner.decus.orgt+ Subject: Re: Initiatalizing a Printer Queueb& Message-ID: <2000Apr6.084418.1@eisner>  i In article <s14nes4t3gh153i44g7kjgr6pq6cvgvrcc@4ax.com>, Max Kelly <maxk@removethis.esatclear.ie> writes: 1 > The problem I am trying to solve is as follows.sF > I have an existing printer queue for a different printer which works > well.rE > With my new terminal queue, when I send data to the printer from myiG > Vax Basic program, the complete program has to finish spooling beforeeC > the printing will start. On my other printer, the printing startsvE > immediatly I start the program. I was assuming, maybe wrongly, thats2 > this was because I had created a terminal queue.  C The behavior you report for your other printer is inconsistent withcC the way VMS handles printers and spooled devices.  I don't think it $ is doing what you think it is doing.  C It sounds to me as if your VAX Basic program is talking directly to @ the serial (or parallel) port that drives your other printer andA that the VMS queuing system is completely uninvolved.  Your othern2 print queue is irrelevant and is probably stopped.  C It sounds to me as if your VAX Basic program is talking to your newd@ printer through a spooled device which in turn presents complete( spooled files to the VMS queuing system.   For example:  5 $ INITIALIZE /QUEUE OLD-QUEUE /ON=OLD-DEVICE /NOSTARTf $ COPY SYS$INPUT OLD-DEVICE: la de da ^Z@ $ ! You'll see the three lines come out immediately as you pressC $ ! Return on each input line.  Stick in form feeds if you're usingmA $ ! a laser printer rather than an impact printer.  Otherwise thee2 $ ! printer will be buffering up a page at a time. $ 3 $ INITIALIZE /QUEUE NEW-QUEUE /ON=NEW-DEVICE /STARTh( $ SET DEVICE NEW-DEVICE /SPOOL=NEW-QUEUE $ COPY SYS$INPUT NEW-DEVICE: la de da ^Z@ $ ! You'll see the three lines come out when you press control-ZB $ ! And you may see flag, burst and trailer pages according to the! $ ! defaults set up for NEW-QUEUEw  C VMS spooled devices work by intercepting output that is directed torD the spooled output device and storing it in a disk file.  Many usersF can have simultaneous connections to the spooled device.  All are keptA straight and the data from each connection is saved in a separatesD disk file.  When a connection is closed, the corresponding disk fileG is submitted as a print (or batch!) job to the queue that is associatediD with the spooled device.  That way you don't have three peope's dataD interleaved on the output device.  You get three separate print jobs instead.  F A print queue set up to print on a spooled device ignores the spoolingE and sends output directly to the physical device.  This neatly avoidsh& the possibility of recursive spooling.  & 	John Briggs			briggs@eisner.decus.org   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 09:37:49 -04002 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>+ Subject: Re: Initiatalizing a Printer Queuei7 Message-ID: <200004060938_MC2-A024-A193@compuserve.com>   ;         Perhaps one device is spooled and the other is not?w  ! Message text written by Max KellytE >>> I have been trying to create a printer queue on my aging Vax 3100t >> running VMS 5.5.- >> =  E >> I have been using the following command but I get a terminal queueiJ >> each time I try it instead of a printer queue. What am I doing wrong??=   >> =  $ >> "INIT /QUEUE /START /ON=3DLTA6010! >> /DEFAULT=3D(NOBURST,NOTRAILER)e- >> /RECORD_BLOCKING/DEVICE=3DPRINTER LTA6010"y > J >There is no functional difference between a terminal queue and a printer=  H >queue.  It's just a naming convention.  If you are feeding your printerG >through a terminal port (e.g. LTA6010), you have a terminal queue.  IfoJ >you are feeding your printer through a parallel port, you have a printer=   >queue.n >n: >They both cause black marks to appear on paper (usually). >bE >For that matter, there's precious little that distinguishes a serverl( >queue from a terminal or printer queue. >-& >What problem are you trying to solve? > ? >       John Briggs                     briggs@eisner.decus.org    John   Thanks foe replying.  / The problem I am trying to solve is as follows.oD I have an existing printer queue for a different printer which works well.9C With my new terminal queue, when I send data to the printer from mycE Vax Basic program, the complete program has to finish spooling before"A the printing will start. On my other printer, the printing startseC immediatly I start the program. I was assuming, maybe wrongly, thatx0 this was because I had created a terminal queue.   Any help would be appreciated.<h   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 00:41:05 -0700i5 From: "Larry D Bohan, Jr" <LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com>e@ Subject: Re: localtime() function C RTL don't agree w/ show time2 Message-ID: <7TXsOI+F8h=9Gl1EoD0Gacx4b3uv@4ax.com>  A On 4 Apr 2000 14:53:13 GMT, hammond@not@peek.ppb.dec.com (Charliei Hammond) wrote:i   > 8 >In article <4.3.0.20000403110947.018d35f0@24.8.96.48>, % >Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> writes:e >eA >>Have someone with privs do an @SYS$MANAGER:UTC$CONFIGURE_TDF...r > < >Please do not execute SYS$MANAGER:UTC$CONFIGURE_TDF.COM or F >SYS$MANAGER:UTC$TIMEZONE_SETUP.COM directly.  Yes, the documantation D >instructs you to do this, but it is a way to get Time Zone and Time( >Differential Factor (TDF) out of synch. >eL >Instead, execute SYS$MANAGER:UTC$TIME_SETUP.COM and choose the BOTH option.G >This will [re]set your time zone and supply you with defaults for TDF.t > H >(Please don't blame me for the confusingly similar names!  Also, pleaseJ >don't ask me what might of might not happen in a possible future version 7 >of OpenVMS which may or may not be under development.)e  7 Between UCX v4.x/TCPIP 5.x  NTP, the UTC/TDF bits, and dC the Alpha V7.x C-runtimes, and not even considering the DTSS svcs, t  D I find this all to be a fine muddle,  at least if you introduce the A requirement, of  "Please don't change my clocks at DT/ST changes,t9 Let us do it ourselves (after application quiesence) ..."o  8 Is there a Party Line that we should consider, such  as,  4 "G'way son,  just use DTSS, and don't bother us ..."  E I'm asking this in considerable ignorance of DTSS, as opposed to NTP.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2000 11:46:22 GMTo) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) @ Subject: Re: localtime() function C RTL don't agree w/ show time' Message-ID: <8chtee$7ld$1@joe.rice.edu>a  4 Larry D Bohan, Jr (LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com) wrote: : [snip]9 : Between UCX v4.x/TCPIP 5.x  NTP, the UTC/TDF bits, and aE : the Alpha V7.x C-runtimes, and not even considering the DTSS svcs, m  F : I find this all to be a fine muddle,  at least if you introduce the C : requirement, of  "Please don't change my clocks at DT/ST changes,e; : Let us do it ourselves (after application quiesence) ..."t  : : Is there a Party Line that we should consider, such  as,  6 : "G'way son,  just use DTSS, and don't bother us ..."  G : I'm asking this in considerable ignorance of DTSS, as opposed to NTP.   D We'd like to be able to reactivate NTP on our client's scada systemsI but are paranoid that the time will change by an hour because of the TDF n logicals being incorrect.l  9 Do we just leave NTP off until the Fall DST time change ?s  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2000 12:51:04 GMTc2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)@ Subject: Re: localtime() function C RTL don't agree w/ show time6 Message-ID: <8ci17o$p3t$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  j In article <7TXsOI+F8h=9Gl1EoD0Gacx4b3uv@4ax.com>, "Larry D Bohan, Jr" <LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com> writes:8 :Between UCX v4.x/TCPIP 5.x  NTP, the UTC/TDF bits, and D :the Alpha V7.x C-runtimes, and not even considering the DTSS svcs, ) :I find this all to be a fine muddle, ...i  C   Yes, this documentation is "interesting", given that -- dependingnC   on the versions involved -- you need to look at timezones and theoC   daylight savings time settings involved with DECdtss, with C RTL, A   with OpenVMS itself, with DECnet-Plus DECdtss, with PATHWORKS,  <   with TCP/IP Services, and probably with a few other hunks.  # :... at least if you introduce the aB :requirement, of  "Please don't change my clocks at DT/ST changes,: :Let us do it ourselves (after application quiesence) ..."  ?   This switch likely requires the use of DECdtss.  It still maya?   end up requiring a look at other products running on the box.   9 :Is there a Party Line that we should consider, such  as,t5 :"G'way son,  just use DTSS, and don't bother us ..."h  B   If you want the switch made automatically, DECdtss is one of theA   few choices -- TCP/IP Services NTP does not make the switchoveryA   automatically.  An upcoming OpenVMS release will likely includey%   an optionally-enabled switchover...t   F :I'm asking this in considerable ignorance of DTSS, as opposed to NTP.  >   Ignorance can be cured through application of documentation.=   The OpenVMS-related timezone stuff is scattered through thei@   system management manual -- I'm looking to start consolidatingA   some of this into the FAQ, and there is work underway to updateaA   OpenVMS and the OpenVMS documentation to better handle timezone @   and daylight savings time as part of a future major release...  5   I know this probably isn't what you want to hear...i  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 16:45:17 GMTn* From: Pierre Bru <Pierre.Bru@spotimage.fr>@ Subject: Re: localtime() function C RTL don't agree w/ show time) Message-ID: <8cieuo$4p0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,  B >Under OpenVMS 7.2 the show time command shows a time/date with an hour >value of 10 (10 AM).  >aC >In a C program I use the time() function to get # of seconds sincef 1970D >and then use the localtime() function to format it. For some reason thisF >method of getting the date returns 11 for the hour value. Does anyone; >know why this is or what can be done to resolve it. Thanksr  D I once had many troubles with localtime(). I finnaly discovered what follows:  F 1> SYS$MANAGER:UTC$CONFIGURE_TDF.COM setup the difference between your/ time and the Universal Time (aka GMT, aka UTC).a  H 2> the logical name TZ define the diference between the UTC and the time@ converted by localtime(). its value is the name of a file in theC SYS$SYSROOT:[SYS$ZONEINFO.SYSTEM] directory. oly the file name, noti2 includinf the path (ie GMTPLUS2 on my OpenVMS box)  7 localtime() uses both TZ and the logical names setup bys0 SYS$MANAGER:UTC$CONFIGURE_TDF.COM to do its job.   I hope this will help.   Pierre.l    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 10:41:31 GMTe% From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com>  Subject: Re: OpenVMS Times) Message-ID: <8chpkp$cn3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>t  6 In article <8cg9qu$3vd$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>,8   "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam> wrote:G > This is Sue Skonetski, I am the editor of the OpenVMS Times and a VMSi Bigotu   Sue,  C A couple of UK Channel Partners I have shown this to are interestedtA in printing and distributing this themselves to VMS customers. Isl  there any problem in doing this.  G Also there is a European print publication OpenVMS Now (Compaq Ireland)tC very similar to OpenVMS Times which is not available on the web. It-F strikes me that the two could be combined - perhaps retaining EuropeanA and US editions. Just wondering if you were aware of OpenVMS Now.p   Congrats on the work so far. --
 Alan Greig    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.n   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2000 12:57:23 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: OpenVMS Times6 Message-ID: <8ci1jj$p3t$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  Q In article <8chpkp$cn3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> writes:s7 :In article <8cg9qu$3vd$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>,sD :A couple of UK Channel Partners I have shown this to are interestedB :in printing and distributing this themselves to VMS customers. Is! :there any problem in doing this.(  G   Not that I am aware of.  Have the folks check with Sue directly, and mJ   she can discuss this with them -- we already make the masters available J   for Compaq-internal folks to download and print...  Sue can also likely G   get the folks pointers to other OpenVMS available "collateral".  (eg:(H   the new Compaq "OpenVMS and Windows NT Integration for Dummies" book.)  H :Also there is a European print publication OpenVMS Now (Compaq Ireland)D :very similar to OpenVMS Times which is not available on the web. ItG :strikes me that the two could be combined - perhaps retaining EuropeanrB :and US editions. Just wondering if you were aware of OpenVMS Now.  F   Yes, folks here in OpenVMS Engineering are aware of the OpenVMS Now.F   (I don't know that are are (or are not) plans to combine the two...)  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 09:37:47 -04002 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: OpenVMS Times7 Message-ID: <200004060938_MC2-A024-A192@compuserve.com>t  G         Well, it seems to be there alright but Acrobat Reader V2.1 says 8 there's an error in it and just shows me a blank screen!    Message text written by JF Mezei >mpatt644 wrote: > =-   > So where do I get it from ?a  < http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvmstimes/openvmstimes.pdf   <l   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 09:46:03 -04005 From: "Skonetski, Susan" <Susan.Skonetski@compaq.com>h Subject: RE: OpenVMS TimesL Message-ID: <21ECC6E090DCD21180D20000F809A18B044FE8B5@exctay-02.tay.dec.com>  L I am not sure what the issue is, since this is the first problem we have had- this month. Do you have V4 of the PDF viewer?w   Suey   -----Original Message-----7 From: Richard B. Gilbert [mailto:DRAGON@compuserve.com] & Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2000 9:38 AM) To: JF Mezei; [unknown]; Skonetski, Susan  Subject: Re: OpenVMS Times    G         Well, it seems to be there alright but Acrobat Reader V2.1 says 8 there's an error in it and just shows me a blank screen!    Message text written by JF Mezei >mpatt644 wrote: >  > So where do I get it from ?-  < http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvmstimes/openvmstimes.pdf   <W   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 09:35:33 -04005 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam>c Subject: Re: OpenVMS Times6 Message-ID: <8ci3qr$qcs$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>   Thanks for the feedback.  J There is no problem with any one printing and distributing.  If the sourceK files are needed however have them contact me and I can make the available.   L We are aware of OpenVMS Now, it is very good.  At this time we have no plans to combine newsletters.    Sue     < Alan Greig wrote in message <8chpkp$cn3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>...7 >In article <8cg9qu$3vd$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>,T9 >  "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam> wrote:tH >> This is Sue Skonetski, I am the editor of the OpenVMS Times and a VMS >Bigot >o >Sue,i >/D >A couple of UK Channel Partners I have shown this to are interestedB >in printing and distributing this themselves to VMS customers. Is! >there any problem in doing this.= >=H >Also there is a European print publication OpenVMS Now (Compaq Ireland)D >very similar to OpenVMS Times which is not available on the web. ItG >strikes me that the two could be combined - perhaps retaining European6B >and US editions. Just wondering if you were aware of OpenVMS Now. >s >Congrats on the work so far.e >--  >Alan Greigi >o > ' >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/e >Before you buy.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 09:54:35 -0400=+ From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>= Subject: Re: OpenVMS Times1 Message-ID: <38EC5EDB.22B838E7@trailing-edge.com>4   Richard Gilbert wrote:  I >         Well, it seems to be there alright but Acrobat Reader V2.1 says0: > there's an error in it and just shows me a blank screen! >q" > Message text written by JF Mezei > >mpatt644 wrote: > >r > > So where do I get it from ?  >s> > http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvmstimes/openvmstimes.pdf   Skonetski, Susan wrote:s > N > I am not sure what the issue is, since this is the first problem we have had/ > this month. Do you have V4 of the PDF viewer?f >  > Suei  C I don't know what platform you guys are all using (I'm particularlyg< perplexed by Richard's question about Acrobat Reader V2.1 asF I didn't think Adobe released anything for VMS at all), but I can view8 the PDF file just fine on my Alpha running VMS 7.1 using Aladdin Ghostscript 5.10.a   Tim.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 10:29:08 -0400  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com Subject: Re: OpenVMS Times4 Message-ID: <C22568B9.0055C460.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  " Try downloading Acrobat Reader V4.        / DRAGON@compuserve.com on 04/06/2000 09:37:47 AMt   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com  cc:s Subject:  Re: OpenVMS Timesd        G         Well, it seems to be there alright but Acrobat Reader V2.1 saysp8 there's an error in it and just shows me a blank screen!    Message text written by JF Mezei >mpatt644 wrote: >I > So where do I get it from ?I  < http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvmstimes/openvmstimes.pdf   <l   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 10:32:59 -0400  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com Subject: Re: OpenVMS Times4 Message-ID: <C22568B9.00560EA3.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  - We are aware of OpenVMS Now, it is very good.t  = Sue, is there a url where we can see it or download it? -Norm         7 susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam on 04/06/2000 09:35:33 AMC   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.coms cc:e Subject:  Re: OpenVMS Timesu         Thanks for the feedback.  J There is no problem with any one printing and distributing.  If the sourceK files are needed however have them contact me and I can make the available.t  L We are aware of OpenVMS Now, it is very good.  At this time we have no plans to combine newsletters.n   Suee    < Alan Greig wrote in message <8chpkp$cn3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>...7 >In article <8cg9qu$3vd$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>,e9 >  "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam> wrote:aH >> This is Sue Skonetski, I am the editor of the OpenVMS Times and a VMS >Bigot >  >Sue,y >uD >A couple of UK Channel Partners I have shown this to are interestedB >in printing and distributing this themselves to VMS customers. Is! >there any problem in doing this.h >pH >Also there is a European print publication OpenVMS Now (Compaq Ireland)D >very similar to OpenVMS Times which is not available on the web. ItG >strikes me that the two could be combined - perhaps retaining European0B >and US editions. Just wondering if you were aware of OpenVMS Now. >u >Congrats on the work so far.n >--u >Alan Greig- >  >0' >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/  >Before you buy.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 12:31:29 -04002 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com> Subject: RE: OpenVMS Times7 Message-ID: <200004061231_MC2-A037-A1CE@compuserve.com>f  * Message text written by "Skonetski, Susan"J >I am not sure what the issue is, since this is the first problem we have=   had - this month. Do you have V4 of the PDF viewer?A   SueN <R           Sue,  J         I have Adobe Acrobat Reader V2.1 on my machine!  Perhaps that's t= he problem?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 12:31:31 -04002 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: OpenVMS Times7 Message-ID: <200004061231_MC2-A037-A1CF@compuserve.com>n  " Message text written by Tim ShoppaD >I don't know what platform you guys are all using (I'm particularly< perplexed by Richard's question about Acrobat Reader V2.1 asF I didn't think Adobe released anything for VMS at all), but I can view8 the PDF file just fine on my Alpha running VMS 7.1 using Aladdin Ghostscript 5.10.<  J         You shouldn't be.  I'm reading my mail and surfing the web using = atH dial-up connection on my PC!  I don't have an internet connection for myE Alpha!  So it's the PC Version 2.1 of Acrobat Reader that I'm talkings about.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2000 17:06:10 GMTa# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edun Subject: Re: OpenVMS Times+ Message-ID: <8cig62$ft2$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>s  " norm.raphael@jamesbury.com writes:0 >DRAGON@compuserve.com on 04/06/2000 09:37:47 AM
 >>JF Mezei >>>mpatt644 wrote:    >>>> So where do I get it from ? >-? >>>http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvmstimes/openvmstimes.pdfL  I >>        Well, it seems to be there alright but Acrobat Reader V2.1 sayst: >>there's an error in it and just shows me a blank screen!  # >Try downloading Acrobat Reader V4.2  ; Ghostscript 4.03 via GhostView 3.43 works as does XPDF 0.90n+ although I get loads of Ghostscript errors.1  = I would encourage the editors to make sure it remains legiblesA with xpdf and preferably with Ghostscript as those are the tools T available to most VMSites.   Robert Morphis@physics.niu.eduF8 Real Women change tires			abuse@uu.net postmaster@uu.net7 Real Men change diapers                 security@uu.net    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 09:31:48 -03002 From: "Parraco, Andy" <ParracAC@bankofbermuda.com>- Subject: OpenVMS/Alpha/C Programmer (Bermuda)eM Message-ID: <F9A21A834D3CD211B78700805FD7CF45017053F3@scont020.sco.bobda.com>b   Hello,   Sorry for the spam.a  L The Bank of Bermuda (an international financial institution, headquarters inD Hamilton, Bermuda) have a requirement for an experienced full-time CI programmer/developer to work on our OpenVMS-based (V7.1) treasury tradinghJ system. Ideally, the candidate would possess strong VAX-to-Alpha migration9 experience (VAX/DEC C to Alpha/ANSI C), and a fundamentale> knowledge/understanding of production banking/trading systems.  J The job would be based in sunny Bermuda, and would entail some operational support.  - If interested, please forward your CV myself.j   Regards,   - Andy   > *	Andrew C. Parracos8 > *	Senior Project Manager, Information Systems Division > *	The Bank of Bermuda Limited-/ > *	E-Mail       andy.parraco@bankofbermuda.come# > *	FAX          +44 (0)1786 444180u! > *	Phone      +44 (0)1786 444005T" > *	Mobile      +44 (0)7887 641432   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2000 07:16:29 GMTp- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)4+ Subject: Re: Pascal Compile-TIme stack dump 5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-DDHV5Z0iouU9@localhost>   F On Sun, 31 Mar 3900 07:45:37, djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)  wrote:  	  DO I=1,NTGTn) > 		NPNT = NLEG + I				!SET ARRAY POINTER/7 >-----** 		do while (NPNT .ge. 16)			!ensure pointer is 2 >-----** 		  NPNT = NPNT - 15			! BETWEEN 1 AND 15 >___** 		enddoH > 		IF (PROHTE(NPNT) .GT. HAC) GOTO 80	!EXIT LOOP IF GROUND HIGHER THAN  > A/Ci8 > 		HAC = (I * HRATE + HAC1)	 	!NEXT VALUE OF A/C HEIGHT
 > 	  enddo  F Sorry it took  a while. It is the marked bit (---**) and the compiler B exits neatly with an 'assertion failure'. I don't blame it really.   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2000 07:16:28 GMT - From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)t' Subject: Re: Portable unformatted files-5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-OMVDNM5XXNjE@localhost>l  E On Sun, 5 Apr 3900 13:07:49, anonymous <pittori@roma2.infn.it> wrote:    > Hi,eI > I used to run  fortran files which produced (at high CPU price...) manyn0 > data files UNFORMATTED on a alpha/VMS machine.: > Now I would like to use them on a  PC/LINUX (mandrake) .J > I find that  the  PC g77-produced executable files refuse to read  them. > IsG > there a  simple solution  to convert the VMS  unformatted data files,u: > which does NOT implies to re-run all the MonteCarlo's ??  B If these files were created as VMS FORTRAN Sequential Unformatted @ files then, over and above Richard's very important point about E Floating Point number formats, you will need to know how to decode a dF DEC-FORTRAN segmented file. It's straight-forward and I have something somewhere if you need it.s   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 11:02:13 GMT,% From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com>a Subject: Re: Pro*C on VMSh) Message-ID: <8chqrg$dsr$1@nnrp1.deja.com>s  ) In article <38EB4499.926DE071@bbc.co.uk>,t    tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk wrote: >  >I > Alan Greig wrote:t >  > >o/ > > POSIX support is on it's way back isn't it?D >,C > Really? I must have missed that. All this "one minute you got it,a then  we > takeA > it away then we give it back" stuff ain't good for VMS's image,i surely.   . Steve Hoffman posted the following last month:         >> Forum: comp.os.vmsl. >> Thread: is bash or linux available for vms?  0 Subject: Re: is bash or linux available for vms? Date: 03/06/20004 Author: Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam>  D In article <8a1ern$hkj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, mark_f_edwards@my-deja.com writes:aH :i would like to be able to run a unix styled shell in the vms world.  iG :noticed that bash is available from DECUS, but it is several years oldt :now.b  E   If you have OpenVMS V7.1 or prior, load POSIX.  (I expect to see anaD update to POSIX made available that allows it to operate on V7.2 andE later, but I do not currently have a schedule for that availability.)-  6 :does anyone know if BASH is available for alpha/vms??  E   I received mail just this morning from someone that was planning toeD contribute a recently-completed OpenVMS BASH port -- I will then add3 the contribution to the OpenVMS Freeware website...   H --------------------------- pure personal opinion ----------------------3 -----   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman  OpenVMS Engineering  hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com     --
 Alan Greig    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.9   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 10:39:22 -04005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>u Subject: Re: Pro*C on VMS + Message-ID: <8ci7fb$n3b$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>.  ? Tim Llewellyn wrote in message <38EB4499.926DE071@bbc.co.uk>...s  K >Really? I must have missed that. All this "one minute you got it, then  weeE >take it away then we give it back" stuff ain't good for VMS's image,> surely.c    E Yup.  This is one of those "few people actually use it" versus "its alK check-the-box standard" debates on priorities...  do you do Galaxy, or work. on POSIX type debates.  L The check-the-box standards are getting some focus this year.  The good partI is that along with this will be other Unix-friendly native work that willRI greatly simplify the job of VMS ports, and more standards (like getting XaL Open certification for Motif and X11).  POSIX is just one of the things that will come as part of this work.:   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 17:04:59 +0100m- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>  Subject: Re: Pro*C on VMSm) Message-ID: <38ECB5AB.7D2FAB17@bbc.co.uk>s   Fred Kleinsorge wrote:  A > Tim Llewellyn wrote in message <38EB4499.926DE071@bbc.co.uk>...n > M > >Really? I must have missed that. All this "one minute you got it, then  wenG > >take it away then we give it back" stuff ain't good for VMS's image, 	 > surely.r >IG > Yup.  This is one of those "few people actually use it" versus "its abM > check-the-box standard" debates on priorities...  do you do Galaxy, or workn > on POSIX type debates.  . Well, we know what you've been doing, Fred :-)   >  >aN > The check-the-box standards are getting some focus this year.  The good partK > is that along with this will be other Unix-friendly native work that willpK > greatly simplify the job of VMS ports, and more standards (like getting X N > Open certification for Motif and X11).  POSIX is just one of the things that! > will come as part of this work.D  B This is definitely good news for VMS, lets hope it ain't too late.  D Hey, WNT doesn't have a suported Posix interface last time I looked.   Regardsv   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uke  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofo MedAS or the BBC.d   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 09:00:26 -0400 From: "paul" <Paul@pwrr.com>/ Subject: Problem with upgrade from 7.1 -> 7.2-1 - Message-ID: <sep2ms2qrfg7@corp.supernews.com>   J Our Alpha is currently running AXPvms 7.1 and we are attempting to upgradeJ to 7.2-1. The upgrade went fine on our testbed/development machine (mirrorF image of production machine), but when we go to upgrade the productionH machine it asks about decnet, and mentions the new tcpip stack, and thenK when it gets to the "do you always want detailed descriptions?" question iteI fails on a "%noname-e-nomsg, message number 1652800a" error. Is there anye way to debug this?   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 14:52:53 +0100, From: "Tony Barker" <tony.barker@compaq.com>3 Subject: Re: Problem with upgrade from 7.1 -> 7.2-1 6 Message-ID: <8ci4vu$qp2$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  F you could have a corrupt PCSI database.  to test this use the command:   product show product  K if it fails you will need to restore a copy of these files or preferably an0 image restore of the whole diskm  , On OpenVMS VAX, restore the following files:  '      SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]*.PCSI$DATABASEe      SYS$UPDATE:*.PCSI*   . On OpenVMS Alpha, restore the following files:  '      SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]*.PCSI$DATABASEd      SYS$COMMON:[000000]*.PCSI*o  E Make sure that all PCSI database files have their file version set to-B one.  If they are set to any other version number, then PCSI won't recognize them.a  F Before attempting to rebuild the PCSI database, confirm that the alias@ directory structure of the system disk is properly defined.  (AnB invalid alias directory structure has also been known to cause the& PRODUCT SHOW PRODUCT command to fail.)   Tony   paul wrote in message ...eK >Our Alpha is currently running AXPvms 7.1 and we are attempting to upgradehK >to 7.2-1. The upgrade went fine on our testbed/development machine (mirroruG >image of production machine), but when we go to upgrade the productionbI >machine it asks about decnet, and mentions the new tcpip stack, and thenaL >when it gets to the "do you always want detailed descriptions?" question itJ >fails on a "%noname-e-nomsg, message number 1652800a" error. Is there any >way to debug this?- >- >- >- >-   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2000 14:10:55 GMTo4 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.dec.com (Charlie Hammond)3 Subject: Re: Problem with upgrade from 7.1 -> 7.2-1m6 Message-ID: <8ci5tf$qpa$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  . In article <sep2ms2qrfg7@corp.supernews.com>,  "paul" <Paul@pwrr.com> writes:  K >Our Alpha is currently running AXPvms 7.1 and we are attempting to upgradeoK >to 7.2-1. The upgrade went fine on our testbed/development machine (mirrorwG >image of production machine), but when we go to upgrade the productioneI >machine it asks about decnet, and mentions the new tcpip stack, and thenuL >when it gets to the "do you always want detailed descriptions?" question itJ >fails on a "%noname-e-nomsg, message number 1652800a" error. Is there any >way to debug this?   K Are the DECnet and TCP/IP questions resonable with respect to the installedsK versions of DECnet and/or TCP/IP?  Please read the Upgrade and Installations= manual for more information, if you have not already done so.l  P Regarding "%noname-e-nomsg, message number 1652800a" -- Without more informationK it is difficult to provide any answers.  Please try to capture and post thetH EXACT output for a dozen lines or so up to the point where this error isE displayed.  (And be  VERY sure you provide the message number EXACTLY/ as it displays.)  > Also, consider contacting your Compaq representative for help.   -- 0K     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAOD            (hammond@peek.ppb.dec.com -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 10:30:15 -0400s0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>3 Subject: Re: Problem with upgrade from 7.1 -> 7.2-1 / Message-ID: <38EC9F71.975B85C3@vl.videotron.ca>i   Charlie Hammond wrote:@ > Also, consider contacting your Compaq representative for help.  L Are there still such things as "Compaq representative" customers are allowed	 to call ?    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2000 14:43:16 GMTm2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)3 Subject: Re: Problem with upgrade from 7.1 -> 7.2-1e6 Message-ID: <8ci7q4$rrq$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  b In article <38EC9F71.975B85C3@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:M :Are there still such things as "Compaq representative" customers are allowedu
 :to call ?  G   Yes, there are.  Usually, this means calling the folks at the Compaq >I   Customer Support Center -- for those folks with systems that are under /   contract and/or warrantee...  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 13:08:33 -0400 From: "paul" <Paul@pwrr.com>3 Subject: Re: Problem with upgrade from 7.1 -> 7.2-1c. Message-ID: <seph82n2rfg93@corp.supernews.com>  I I wanted to post the resolution.....As Tony (1st reply) stated..."If theyrJ are set to any other version number, then PCSI won't recognize them." thatK was the problem exactly..somehow they had a version number of 2...i renamed K them to 1 and all went well. As for calling Compaq for support $230 an houra is quite steep.q    = Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message 0 news:8ci7q4$rrq$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com... >r: > In article <38EC9F71.975B85C3@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei) <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: G > :Are there still such things as "Compaq representative" customers area allowedo > :to call ? > H >   Yes, there are.  Usually, this means calling the folks at the CompaqJ >   Customer Support Center -- for those folks with systems that are under  >   contract and/or warrantee... >u, >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion --------------------------- 1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineeringm hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >y   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 14:50:36 +0200# From: "Veen ten, BJ" <veenb@gvb.nl>t4 Subject: Searching for documentation on utc library.I Message-ID: <20717E8A22AFD311A8860001FA7EF51F03A902@wsvh02.intern.gvb.nl>C   Hi!r  7 I am searching for the documentation on the utc libraryl  I'm using the utc.h header file. Can anyone help me with this ?   Thanks in advance. Barend ten Veeno   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 14:31:14 GMTe From: yang@intersys.coma& Subject: show sublocks of a given lock) Message-ID: <8ci73i$ren$1@nnrp1.deja.com>-   Hi,-  H I am kind of new to VMS. A question came up recently: how do I display aH list of sublocks of a lock? I know how to show locks with names starting with a string "foobar":A   $ sho lock/name=foobar  3 I am unable to locate the info in any VMS document.e   Thanks in advance.    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 06:27:18 GMT 2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>" Subject: Re: So who will buy VMS ?6 Message-ID: <a7WG4.1595$h81.29133@typhoon.aracnet.com>  . Dave Weatherall <djweath@attglobal.net> wrote:F > The younger ones (30's) have learned to use VMS as a host for their G > jobs but would not be evangelical about it. They use Win or Linux at k > home.p  K What about people in this age bracket that use UNIX and or Windows at work,oL and VMS at home?  AND the only VMS systems they've ever had *anything* to do  with are their own home systems?   			Zanei   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2000 07:16:25 GMT - From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)a" Subject: Re: So who will buy VMS ?5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-I82VwgVzdJcH@localhost>e  < On Sun, 5 Apr 3900 10:26:20, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?=  <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote:-  7 > I think this audience can be grouped in 3 categories:M > H > * a large group of 30-40 year olds which learned VMS is the golden VAX
 > VMS days in$4 >   the 80's - this is undoubtetly the largest groupG > * a smaller group of 40-60 year olds which started with PDP-somethinga > andr >   migrated to VAX VMSIG > * a very small group of 20-30 year olds which learned VMS in the 90'ss  E I'm in group 2 and the 4 people who make up my team are too. In fact a2 most of the people in the office who program do...  D The younger ones (30's) have learned to use VMS as a host for their E jobs but would not be evangelical about it. They use Win or Linux at l home.   D The still younger ones can't understand why we use this 'legacy' at D all. Which only goes to show the weakness of modern education. They ? want an NT PC on their desks instead of their VMS Workstations cF (Decterm platform). 'VMS is slow and old-fashioned.' They work on the E ADA side using Rational stuff on Sun/Solaris. Some of 'em even think -F null terminated strings are the only way to do character handling :-)   @ On the other hand, on VMS we've never lost anything really. Our E colleagues in the ADA/Tru 64 Unix world nearly lost the lot when the @E storage (disk and tape backup) systems went gaga. Thanks to DEC they o4 got it all back but it was touch and go for a while.   Yeah I'm a VMS bigot I guess...v   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 23:53:40 -0700a5 From: "Larry D Bohan, Jr" <LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com>i" Subject: Re: So who will buy VMS ?2 Message-ID: <mC7sOPcF3JO86B0uchVQoVpVJvCh@4ax.com>  / On Wed, 05 Apr 2000 10:26:20 +0200, Arne Vajhjo <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote:   > >today students only learn Windows. And that can be a problem.  C Honest question.  Is this *really* true?  I mean for CS undergrads?   : (I'll admit, for students not majoring in CS, this sounds  very believable)  C My dated experience, was that typical CS depts sneer at BillyBoxes.   < In what web-crawling I've done looking for examples, papers,3 algorithms,  etc, and thusly running across recent o= course descriptions, homework/lab assigments, lecture notes,  5 computer lab hours/rules,  my uneducated hand waving a7 ad-hoc impression is that Linux rules the CS undergrad e world nowadays.      D  > this choice may be driven by costs, more than anything else,  4 ie ie how can a CS dept set up a lab for the lowest  price possible?       9 that, and  being open source,  Linux  is well suited for  6 lab work/experiments, esp for upper level O/S courses.  8 while I knew a couple schools that taught their freshman> year, into-to-programming classes on PC's using, say, Turbo-C,  = I haven't run across many (not to say they don't exist) that E< use BillyBoxes, and the Visual C++ IDE in CS undergrad labs.  ? I think the MFC api's would be too silly/bloated/oft-changing  r> to teach with,  except at trade schools,  or perhaps as a good0 example of how *not* to write a set of API's ...   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 12:47:44 +0200o= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>l" Subject: Re: So who will buy VMS ?) Message-ID: <38EC6B50.FE086895@gtech.com>    "Larry D Bohan, Jr" wrote:1 > On Wed, 05 Apr 2000 10:26:20 +0200, Arne Vajhjm! > <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote: @ > >today students only learn Windows. And that can be a problem. > E > Honest question.  Is this *really* true?  I mean for CS undergrads?o > ; > (I'll admit, for students not majoring in CS, this soundsS > very believable)  8 I was talking about students in general not CS students.  9 Traditionally CS students are exposed to several types ofa5 systems and I am sure CS students today will see bothr; Windows systems and one or more flavours of Unix (and maybew8 even a VMS system or an IBM mainframe system if they are really lucky).  9 But CS students are a relative small fraction of students < and even a small fraction of students which after graduation! are going to work with computers.   : At least in Denmark other academic areas like engineering,> business administration, economics etc. provide more people to& the IT industry than computer science.  $ I got a master degree in economics !   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 13:07:31 GMTy= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)h" Subject: Re: So who will buy VMS ?0 Message-ID: <009E8330.00A3A2CD@SendSpamHere.ORG>  i In article <38EC6B50.FE086895@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:o >"Larry D Bohan, Jr" wrote: 2 >> On Wed, 05 Apr 2000 10:26:20 +0200, Arne Vajhj" >> <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote:A >> >today students only learn Windows. And that can be a problem.d >> oF >> Honest question.  Is this *really* true?  I mean for CS undergrads? >> n< >> (I'll admit, for students not majoring in CS, this sounds >> very believable)u >t9 >I was talking about students in general not CS students.1 > : >Traditionally CS students are exposed to several types of6 >systems and I am sure CS students today will see both< >Windows systems and one or more flavours of Unix (and maybe9 >even a VMS system or an IBM mainframe system if they ares >really lucky).d  H It all depends upon the college/university these days.  I recently spokeI with a CS graduate of a well known university in the state of NJ (no namehH just a hint that you'll find its name in my mailing address).  This fel-I low was *NEVER* exposed to an assembly language save for the fact that henG said he once looked at a machine code listing and thought it gibberish.D  H I asked him a few questions about data structures and simple algorithms.H Not a clue.  He does boast, however, that he is very proficient with theC Visual Basic and Visual C 'languages' and he also programs in HTML.8  ; >At least in Denmark other academic areas like engineering,e? >business administration, economics etc. provide more people to ' >the IT industry than computer science.e  F A long long time ago...  I used work on a project for the US Navy.  ItF was a simulator/test generator for digital circuitry.  My degree is inF electronic engineering and I worked side by side with others with E.E.H degrees.  It amazed me that I could ask the majority of them to completeG a truth table for a simple two input NAND gate and they couldn't!  Whath@ they were learned in their 4 or 5 years of schooling I know not.  F Just a little information outside of the CS realm to put things into aH perspective.  I still firmly believe that there are important fundament-E al and foundational 'atoms' of any discipline that must be taught andeG learned to appreciate and better utilize the macro concepts of any saidcH disciple.  So my rhetorical questions are: When the CS students of todayH and tomorrow are taught only how to assemble a program with some pointy-G clicky interface and iconified concepts and no understanding of what is H happening at the lowest levels, who will be writing tomorrow's new whiz-H bang pointy-clicky interface and iconified concepts compilers generatingH the code running on these machines?  Will future historians look back atI the beginning of the 21st century and refer to it as the "ingnoramus age"p and not the "information age"?   --N VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001           VAXman@TMESIS.COM   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 09:20:25 -0400n+ From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> " Subject: Re: So who will buy VMS ?1 Message-ID: <38EC56D9.2C5126A6@trailing-edge.com>n  $ Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:H > A long long time ago...  I used work on a project for the US Navy.  ItH > was a simulator/test generator for digital circuitry.  My degree is inH > electronic engineering and I worked side by side with others with E.E.J > degrees.  It amazed me that I could ask the majority of them to completeI > a truth table for a simple two input NAND gate and they couldn't!  WhataB > they were learned in their 4 or 5 years of schooling I know not.  A For reasonable values of "a long time ago" (40 years?  30 years?)-< that's not too surprising.  Draw out the circuit in terms ofB relays (remember ladder logic?) and I'm sure they'd figure it out.  @ OTOH, I'm sure that there are kids getting EE degrees these daysG that can lay out quite fancy circuits into the latest VLSI programmableeB logic, but they wouldn't know which way to put the rectifiers intoB a power supply.  (Or, even worse, which end of a soldering iron to	 pick up!)e   Tim.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2000 13:35:19 GMTo( From: bill@cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)" Subject: Re: So who will buy VMS ?, Message-ID: <8ci3qn$2f5m$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  j In article <mC7sOPcF3JO86B0uchVQoVpVJvCh@4ax.com>, "Larry D Bohan, Jr" <LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com> writes:2 |> On Wed, 05 Apr 2000 10:26:20 +0200, Arne Vajhj" |> <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote: |> gA |> >today students only learn Windows. And that can be a problem.a |> uF |> Honest question.  Is this *really* true?  I mean for CS undergrads? |> f  " Here's a data point for everybody.  L Up to this point we have done CS-1 using Pascal on a VAX/Alpha (architectureI changed pretty invisibly to the students) running VMS.  CS-2 was Ada on aTI Unix or Windows platform,  Students choice, with most opting for Windows. D Later courses were done in Ada, C, C++ at the professors discretion.  J Starting next year, CS-1 and CS-2 will be done in Java in either a Unix orK Windows environment.  The only courses I am aware of that will be done on atJ VMS platform are File Processing which uses COBOL under VMS and one course5 required for CIS Majors only that uses Oracle on VMS.k  J Until about a year ago, everyone had a VMS account and did Email and otherH stuff that way.  They have moved all this stuff to Netscape and so even H though, technically, everyone still gets a VMS account, no one ever usesI it and most students are probably not even aware of what that would mean.e   Not a rosy picture.o   bill   -- rJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.uofs.edu         |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   m   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 09:49:17 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>" Subject: Re: So who will buy VMS ?/ Message-ID: <38EC95D9.F860F82F@vl.videotron.ca>u  & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:J > just a hint that you'll find its name in my mailing address).  This fel-K > low was *NEVER* exposed to an assembly language save for the fact that herI > said he once looked at a machine code listing and thought it gibberish.t  K When I was at uni, the only two courses where I truly learned something wasaJ IBM 370 assembler and computer architecture (how one takes and,or,nand,nor9 gates to build logic, and how instructions are executed).a  M The rest of the courses, I could have learned on my own and is rather uselesso, these days because things change so quickly.  M However, even during my courses (back in early 80s), I found it useless for aPM course to focus on sorting techniques for a whole session. Useless since I amoJ not likely to ever have to build a sort program needing such efficiency to5 sort a billion records: such utilities already exist.%  N Unless I was to specialise in sorting programs, it seemed like a waste of time) to spend so much time on sort algorithms.c  M Perhaps today, it has gotten evene "worse" in that unless a student wishes totK specialise in operating systems, it is pointless to learn how they work, orXL unless he will specialise into electronics engineer, it is pointless to know! how a computer works etc etc etc.a  M The one big problem I see with the very basic general education is that it isnI not worthy of COMPUTER SCIENCE. You'd expect someone coming out of such aeK course (as opposed to a commercial programming school) to really understand- how computer work.    M This is why I feel that Compaq (or whomever ends up owning VMS) would do welljM to give universities some state-of-the-art wildwire galaxy clusters. Students3M who think that they rule the world with their Windows VB knowledge would comeCK to realise that there is a lot more to computing and would seek to find outeJ more about those galaxy thingies and hence raise the awareness level. WhenM that student gets a job, he just might suggest that the company look into VMS  for solutions.      >  When the CS students of todayJ > and tomorrow are taught only how to assemble a program with some pointy-I > clicky interface and iconified concepts and no understanding of what isrJ > happening at the lowest levels, who will be writing tomorrow's new whiz-J > bang pointy-clicky interface and iconified concepts compilers generating& > the code running on these machines?     , Those who specialise in that field of work.   L What is interesting though is that I assume that due to all the attrition atL Digital that the remaining VMS engineering team has quite a bit of seniorityL and experience, but at Microsoft, I'd assume that they are all teenagers whoF only know VB and <alt><ctrl><del> (actually, I think that kids now sayC <ctrl><atl><del> because the <ctrl> key is not first on keyboards).D  C That would definitely explain the quality/reliability issues at MS..   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 14:55:59 +0100m- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> " Subject: Re: So who will buy VMS ?) Message-ID: <38EC976F.5D2A1AF4@bbc.co.uk>t   Arne Vajhj wrote:  < >  But CS students are a relative small fraction of students> > and even a small fraction of students which after graduation# > are going to work with computers.m >u  ? Yup, one ex-colleage uesd to joke that all you needed to get an>C IT job  these days is a history degree :-). The fact that he didn'ts: have any qualifications at all beyon A level should not be ignore in this context.    > < > At least in Denmark other academic areas like engineering,@ > business administration, economics etc. provide more people to( > the IT industry than computer science.   And the natural sciences :-).-   >- >-& > I got a master degree in economics !  > Well, at least that is relevant to the maketplaces for IT :-).   >a >d > Arne   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of. MedAS or the BBC.m   ------------------------------  " Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 14:12:44 GMT2 From: kilgallen@eisner.decus.org (Larry Kilgallen)" Subject: Re: So who will buy VMS ?& Message-ID: <2000Apr6.101244.1@eisner>  _ In article <38EC56D9.2C5126A6@trailing-edge.com>, Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> writes:   B > OTOH, I'm sure that there are kids getting EE degrees these daysI > that can lay out quite fancy circuits into the latest VLSI programmableoD > logic, but they wouldn't know which way to put the rectifiers intoD > a power supply.  (Or, even worse, which end of a soldering iron to > pick up!)o  J Charles Darwin called the soldering iron scenario "natural selection". :-)   ------------------------------  * Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 14:28:50 +0000 (   )3 From: Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com>e" Subject: Re: So who will buy VMS ?I Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10004061424080.6103-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com>h  8 On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:  J > I asked him a few questions about data structures and simple algorithms.J > Not a clue.  He does boast, however, that he is very proficient with theE > Visual Basic and Visual C 'languages' and he also programs in HTML.h  I *ouch* -- just out of curiousity, what were the questions that you asked?e    J > happening at the lowest levels, who will be writing tomorrow's new whiz-J > bang pointy-clicky interface and iconified concepts compilers generatingJ > the code running on these machines?  Will future historians look back at  I I like to hope that it will be a small group of highly-paid professionalsnH with an astounding amount of job security, because nobody else will "get it." ;)i   Regards,   Chris   O ===============================================================================h@ "My two cents"			(http://rootworks.com/twocentsworth.cgi?128562)= Christopher Smith(chriss@pubserv.com)			Prgramer^W Programmer  Prime Synergy of Champaign, IL.e% ------------------------------------- I "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes andtH weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes; and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949  O -------------------------------------------------------------------------------l   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 16:01:35 GMTc= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)c" Subject: Re: So who will buy VMS ?0 Message-ID: <009E8348.5202F832@SendSpamHere.ORG>  _ In article <38EC56D9.2C5126A6@trailing-edge.com>, Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> writes:S% >Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:uI >> A long long time ago...  I used work on a project for the US Navy.  IttI >> was a simulator/test generator for digital circuitry.  My degree is in I >> electronic engineering and I worked side by side with others with E.E. K >> degrees.  It amazed me that I could ask the majority of them to completewJ >> a truth table for a simple two input NAND gate and they couldn't!  WhatC >> they were learned in their 4 or 5 years of schooling I know not.: >4B >For reasonable values of "a long time ago" (40 years?  30 years?)= >that's not too surprising.  Draw out the circuit in terms ofcC >relays (remember ladder logic?) and I'm sure they'd figure it out.  " Would 15 to 20 years surprise you?  A >OTOH, I'm sure that there are kids getting EE degrees these daysoH >that can lay out quite fancy circuits into the latest VLSI programmableC >logic, but they wouldn't know which way to put the rectifiers intol  B But, will they be able to design the innards of one of these VLSI?  C >a power supply.  (Or, even worse, which end of a soldering iron tol
 >pick up!)   Ouch!h   --N VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001           VAXman@TMESIS.COM   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 12:19:34 -0400e0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>" Subject: Re: So who will buy VMS ?. Message-ID: <38ECB916.9F7E09D@vl.videotron.ca>   Larry Kilgallen wrote:F > > a power supply.  (Or, even worse, which end of a soldering iron to
 > > pick up!)n > L > Charles Darwin called the soldering iron scenario "natural selection". :-)  M Does not work when the person/animal has already reproduced. His faulty genesmN have already passed on to the next generation. Darwin's theory only works bestJ between birth and age of reproduction as it will "quickly" eliminate those- whose genes are weak for that stage of life. t  L Afterwards, Darwin's theory only favours those who reproduce a lot. (eg: the3 stronger animal in the pack that wins the females).   G Unfortunatly for humans, Darwin's theory doesn't work anymore. Medecine:L ensures that even those who have faulty bodies/genes get to reproduction ageN (and pass on their genes) and computer science courses makes anyone look smartG enough to become a bona fide computer expert. So there is no longer anyVD weeding out of the week and poor-quality. Case in point: Microsoft'sN existence, which by Darwin's theory should have been weeded out of humankind's; existance a long time ago as it produces inferior software.u  K (On the other hand, you can contend that rats are by far superior to humansuK since they reproduce more, as do those pesky mosquitoes that draw litres ofeY blood off humans every spring/summer, in in that respect, Microsoft is in fact superior).t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 17:08:01 +0100B- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> " Subject: Re: So who will buy VMS ?) Message-ID: <38ECB661.B7934B4D@bbc.co.uk>f  ? I think I should clarify my statement somewhat, after receivingc? email from a fellow comp.os.vms inhabitant with no A levels :-)e  ; I didn't mean to sound superior or anything. Its not that Io= don't respect the skills of people without or with irrelevantr7 qualifications, more that the IT industry has become so-; "dumbed down" that people who really know very little aboutS( IT end up controlling the people who do.   Tim Llewellyn wrote:   > Arne Vajhj wrote: >-> > >  But CS students are a relative small fraction of students@ > > and even a small fraction of students which after graduation% > > are going to work with computers.J > >o > A > Yup, one ex-colleage uesd to joke that all you needed to get anoE > IT job  these days is a history degree :-). The fact that he didn'ta< > have any qualifications at all beyon A level should not be > ignore in this context.r >? > >n> > > At least in Denmark other academic areas like engineering,B > > business administration, economics etc. provide more people to* > > the IT industry than computer science. >s > And the natural sciences :-).  >s > >a > >a( > > I got a master degree in economics ! >o@ > Well, at least that is relevant to the maketplaces for IT :-). >y > >o > >I > > Arne >s > --8 > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project2 > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.C > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukm > C > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofe > MedAS or the BBC.x   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uku  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.n   ------------------------------  " Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 16:04:54 GMT* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)" Subject: Re: So who will buy VMS ?& Message-ID: <2000Apr6.120454.1@eisner>  p In article <009E8330.00A3A2CD@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:   >  > When the CS students of todaytJ > and tomorrow are taught only how to assemble a program with some pointy-I > clicky interface and iconified concepts and no understanding of what is J > happening at the lowest levels, who will be writing tomorrow's new whiz-J > bang pointy-clicky interface and iconified concepts compilers generatingJ > the code running on these machines?  Will future historians look back atK > the beginning of the 21st century and refer to it as the "ingnoramus age"r  > and not the "information age"? >   = 	Who will write them?  Some very well paid individuals... butr? 	I totally agree with your premise, that there isn't a holistici> 	approach anymore and the "youngsters" don't need to know thatD 	because they can leave school and work at an IPO and be worth maybe> 	a million in a few years... so who cares that you old geezersB 	know internals?  On TV they interviewed college freshmen and 70% G 	expect to be millionaires.  Gee, from what I see, the 21-25 year olds iG 	that are clogging up "Who Wants to be a Millionaire" *mostly* suck at lD 	it... they have video reflexes... so maybe they'll hit the lottery. 	e< 	Anyhow, when in the Sub Service ... underwent Naval Nuclear= 	Power training.. you have to know what you do and why you do > 	it as it can effect other systems so there is a good deal of G 	cross-training , you have to.  Why?  The Sub might have one more dive -G 	than it does a surface and that is not a good thing.  So maybe when a 1A 	few more rockets go "kaboom!" someone wise ups and gets the kids = 	out of the loop.  Probably will take a major tragedy with a v@ 	new whiz bang system that replaced a legacy box to shake thingsB 	up.  Why else are they limping along on old equipment at the FAA?G 	(Okay, I admit this is a can of worms, not very simplistic answer but iF 	my point is if something works you sure as heck don't want to change B 	it just because it hasn't been replaced in 3, 5 , 8, etc. years).   				Robi   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 12:02:05 -0400+ From: Phillip G Deneault <deneault@wpi.edu>o Subject: SSH for VMSD Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0004061152510.22674-100000@ernie.WPI.EDU>  @ I've tried searching everywhere I could but I still can't find aJ package or even some working ported source.  Has anyone tried porting thisH to VMS?  I would think this would be something that lots of people would# want for secure connections to VMS.n   Phil  C -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ? Phil Deneault                    "We work in the dark,		 	     n4 deneault@wpi.edu                  We do what we can,9 http://www.wpi.edu/~deneault/     We give what we have.  F; Work/Study NetOp                  Our doubt is our passion,c? OpenVMS Operator                  and our passion is our task. AC                  Henry James ->   The rest is the maddness of art."nC -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-u   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 12:52:39 -0400& From: "Mike Duffy" <mdduffy@erols.com> Subject: Re: SSH for VMS+ Message-ID: <8cifav$a4c$1@bob.news.rcn.net>h  6 The next releases of MultiNet and TCPware will include support for SSH.  
 Mike Duffy TCPware & MultiNet engineering Process Software Corp. www.process.com   ' Phillip G Deneault wrote in message ...dA >I've tried searching everywhere I could but I still can't find aaK >package or even some working ported source.  Has anyone tried porting thisaI >to VMS?  I would think this would be something that lots of people woulde$ >want for secure connections to VMS. >j >Phily >aD >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-7 >Phil Deneault                    "We work in the dark,e5 >deneault@wpi.edu                  We do what we can, 8 >http://www.wpi.edu/~deneault/     We give what we have.< >Work/Study NetOp                  Our doubt is our passion,? >OpenVMS Operator                  and our passion is our task.lD >                 Henry James ->   The rest is the maddness of art."D >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 11:12:56 -0600d% From: Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>- Subject: Re: SSH for VMSB Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000406111143.00ab76d0@pop.clsp.uswest.net>  . At 10:02 AM 4/6/00 , Phillip G Deneault wrote:A >I've tried searching everywhere I could but I still can't find aeK >package or even some working ported source.  Has anyone tried porting thisrI >to VMS?  I would think this would be something that lots of people wouldr$ >want for secure connections to VMS.  L There will be a supported SSH component in the next versions of Multinet andM TCPware.  This will have V1 compatibility initially, and V2 to follow shortly G after.  There is also an unsupported (read: "public domain") version byc5 David Jones at OSU; however, it's only V1 compatible.h       ------I +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+gI | Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |,I | Principal Engineer            |  "Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit    |lI | Process Software Corporation  |   flies like a banana."               |gI | http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |aI +-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+e   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2000 06:00:14 CSTh* From: paul@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Craig Paul)+ Subject: Sun considers VMS a "mainframe" OS - Message-ID: <JD+aBN9gf+uG@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>   = Employees of Sun consider VMS a "mainframe" operating system.e  . That says alot to me about what Solaris isn't.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 11:43:44 GMTc From: d.webb@mdx.ac.uk/ Subject: Re: Sun considers VMS a "mainframe" OSe) Message-ID: <8cht9e$g9v$1@nnrp1.deja.com>t  - In article <JD+aBN9gf+uG@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>,r-   paul@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Craig Paul) wrote:e? > Employees of Sun consider VMS a "mainframe" operating system.o >v0 > That says alot to me about what Solaris isn't. >c  E It's probably a meaningless hangover from the attitude of a few years  ago - The mainframe is dead. ie  " VMS is a mainframe  => VMS is dead  ; The Unix people were also saying things like mainframes aresB dinosaurs and VMS is a dinosaur. Hence equating VMS and Mainframes< was an easy way of hitting two targets for the price of one.  
 David Webb VMs and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.c   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 12:52:37 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> / Subject: Re: Sun considers VMS a "mainframe" OSy' Message-ID: <8cifa0$rk$1@pyrite.mv.net>r  J Considering VMS a 'mainframe' system is not limited to Sun.  In fact, backL when the most powerful VAXen were in development, there was sentiment within+ DEC that VMS was headed for that territory.r  G VMS certainly has far closer to mainframe-level support for things like L batch processing than Unices do, and in general may look like an inscrutableI mainframe-style OS to people raised on Unix.  Which is not to say that itcE competes directly with S/390 system variants across their full range.l  G Compaq's full system line-up maps at least somewhat to IBM's in several-J ways:  Tru64 <-> AIX, Linux, Windows boxes, and (Tandem systems + VMS) <->J (the S/390 system variants + OS/400).  But the last mapping is the hardestI to couch in terms of apples-to-apples comparisons.  However, these systemrJ sets do point out the fact that no other vendor comes anywhere near having the same breadth of offerings.   - bill  G <d.webb@mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message news:8cht9e$g9v$1@nnrp1.deja.com...e/ > In article <JD+aBN9gf+uG@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>,e/ >   paul@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Craig Paul) wrote:iA > > Employees of Sun consider VMS a "mainframe" operating system.t > > 2 > > That says alot to me about what Solaris isn't. > >e >nG > It's probably a meaningless hangover from the attitude of a few yearsh > ago - The mainframe is dead. > ie >n$ > VMS is a mainframe  => VMS is dead > = > The Unix people were also saying things like mainframes arerD > dinosaurs and VMS is a dinosaur. Hence equating VMS and Mainframes> > was an easy way of hitting two targets for the price of one. >  > David Webb > VMs and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >l >@( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.o   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 08:41:06 +0100, From: "Tony Barker" <tony.barker@compaq.com>/ Subject: Re: Task to task READ/ERROR/TIME_OUT=x 6 Message-ID: <8chf6q$i7u$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>   Nick  H I believe this is a fault with the READ command and not something you'reK doing/not doing.  As far as I can see the only /TIME_OUT value that will betJ accepted is /TIME_OUT=0.  This will return immediately but if you stick itK in a loop with a 1 second delay and a counter and exit after 5 loops you'llt end up with the same results.u Something like this:   $ count = 0a $ loop:g. $ read/end_of_file=cont/timeout=0 netlink line $ goto dostuff $ cont:i $ count = count + 1. $ if count .lt. 5- $ then $   wait ::1
 $   goto loopr $ else $   goto stopthis  $ endifi
 $ dostuff: $ write sys$output linec $ write netlink "QUIT"% $ write sys$output "Exiting normally". $ close netlink8 $ stopthis:@   HTHp   Tony  ? Nicholas Barnes wrote in message <38EB1323.41398952@ubs.com>...  >Hi, > I >Small problem and I realise I'm probably doing something stupid, but....l > H >How do I get a task to task read to timeout if there's nothing there to read?VD >Using the examples below, I cannot make a 'read' timeout, or let me <CTRL>+Y= >the code. I have had a play with various things with no joy.n >t >e >I have two com files: >  >t >ONE.COM >s" >$ open/read/write netlink sys$net >$top: >$ read netlink line/ >$ if "''line'" .eqs. "QUIT" then goto quit_end  >$ write netlink "''line'" >$ goto topc >$quit_end:e >$ exitt >  >w >TWO.COM >l >$ set control=y+ >$ open/read/write netlink node::"task=one" ! >$ on control_y then goto bomboute >$ write netlink "HELLO" >$ read netlink line >$ write sys$output line. >$ read/error=stopthis/time_out=5 netlink line >$ write sys$output line >$ write netlink "QUIT"t& >$ write sys$output "Exiting normally" >$ close netlink >$stopthis:P >$ write sys  >$output "Stopping cos of error"
 >$bombout: >$ write netlink "QUIT"  >$ close netlink >$ exitE >CK >Yes, I know that the code's sloppy, but it was just written as a 'proof off
 >concept'. >oK >The problem is that the TWO.COM hangs at the 7th line - the time-out never F >occurs and pressing <CTRL>+Y does not break the program. 'set verify' output >gives:  >- >USER> @two- >$ set control=y+ >$ open/read/write netlink node::"task=one"y! >$ on control_y then goto bomboute >$ write netlink "HELLO" >$ read netlink line >$ write sys$output line >HELLO. >$ read/error=stopthis/time_out=5 netlink line > Interrupti >e > Interrupt  >p > Interrupta >n > Interruptr >s > Interrupth >e >r >,< >The above was tested on VMS 6.2-1H3 on an AlphaStation 500. >o >Cheers. >U >Nick.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Apr 2000 07:16:23 GMTd- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)o2 Subject: Re: VAX-Macro problems on Alpha VMS 7.2-15 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-45stTqgM51dM@localhost>o  F On Sun, 5 Apr 3900 09:50:00, Roger@natron.demon.co.uk (Roger Barnett)  wrote:L > Oo, brings back memories of the Mac11 -> Mac32 converter I wrote last year) > - now theres a product with a future !.o  D I used two DCL procedures using EDIT /EDT to change the three char. C mnemonics to the L or W variety and then went thro' each module by dF hand. Did you manage to automate this such that the operand sizes were checked?   I enjoyed that job.d   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 11:35:55 -0400  From: Dan <dan@vrx.net> - Subject: Warning: circuitsurgeon is a ripoff!u' Message-ID: <38ECAEDB.93AAFE7A@vrx.net>s  E Anyone who deals with circuitsurgeon (www.circuitsurgeon.com) BEWARE!  This guy ripped me off!c  C I bought a DEC 3000 system from him, and have had problems with it.0A Turns out it has a defective IO board, which will cost me more to  replace than the
 whole system!0  C He is ignoring my emails and my calls.  He is a decus member, but I  think he is SCUM!   B He supposedly gives you a "warranty" and does these as "commercialF sales", but when it comes time for him to honor these promises he just says "too bad".n  H Since I'm in Canada and he's in the US, there isn't a whole lot I can do@ legally, otherwise I would take legal action. Although I'm still investigating this.m  E I've already complained to him, as well I've sent complaints to Decusk and Ebay about his activities.r  E There's not much else I can do, and I'm out of pocket several hundredrE dollars US$, (plus shipping and customs costs) and all I have to showe- for it is a large paperweight, or deskwarmer.   @ I don't know about anyone else, but I call this kind of activity "fraud"!   Dan.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 17:12:10 GMTs From: wetboy <wetboy@shore.net>a1 Subject: Re: Warning: circuitsurgeon is a ripoff!s0 Message-ID: <Kz3H4.114$lW1.11628@news.shore.net>  ' In comp.os.vms Dan <dan@vrx.net> wrote:    < snip >    = I have sent a copy of Dan's post to the "circuitsurgeon", ands2 invited him to respond with his side of the story.  	 -- Wetboym   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 16:05:47 +0200# From: "Lars Jacobsen" <laja@tdk.dk>h* Subject: What is  %SYSTEM-F-ASTFLT error ?, Message-ID: <8ci5js$gb6$1@news.inet.tele.dk>  6 I get this error from time to time on different nodes.  2 Scheduler Job #17 (NAME: DAN_DB) finished, Status:G  %SYSTEM-F-ASTFLT, AST fault, SP=!XL, param=!XL, PC=!XH, PS=!XL, target0 PC=!XH, PS=!XL  2 Always the log says nothing but is simply aborted.8 The last command I can see in the log is related to RDB.' Either RMU/CLOSE or some update/insert.t  + Can anyone lead me in the right direction ?a   -- Kind Regards. ----------------------------------------------. Lars Jacobsen          Phone : +45 89 45 41 80. Tele Danmark IT        Fax   : +45 89 45 61 02 Takseringssystemer (BNTT)t+ S/8-173                email  : laja@tdk.dk- Gunnar Clausens Vej 28 DK-8260 Viby J. ----------------------------------------------       begin 666 Lars Jacobsen.vcfr= M0D5'24XZ5D-!4D0-"E9%4E-)3TXZ,BXQ#0I..DIA8V]B<V5N.TQA<G,-"D9.l= M.DQA<G,@2F%C;V)S96X-"DY)0TM.04U%.D$U.#8T.0T*3U)'.E1E;&4@1&%N = M;6%R:R!!+U,[250-"E1)5$Q%.E!R;VIE:W1L961E<@T*5$5,.U=/4DL[5D])c= M0T4Z.#D@-#4@-#$@.# -"E1%3#M(3TU%.U9/24-%.C<U(#<R(#<P(#$W#0I4a= M14P[0T5,3#M63TE#13HR-" R-2 S,B T,0T*5$5,.U=/4DL[1D%8.C@Y(#0Ur= M(#8Q(# R#0I!1%([5T]22SH[0DY45#M'=6YN87(@0VQA=7-E;G,@5F5J.U9Ia= M8GD@2CL[.#(V,#M$86YM87)K#0I,04)%3#M73U)+.T5.0T]$24Y'/5%53U1% = M1"U04DE.5$%"3$4Z0DY45#TP1#TP04=U;FYA<B!#;&%U<V5N<R!696H],$0]r= M,$%6:6)Y($H@.#(V,#TP1#TP041A;FUA<FL-"D%$4CM(3TU%.CL[1W)U;F1Ep= M="!"86MK92 T.#M696IL93L[-S$P,#M$86YM87)K#0I,04)%3#M(3TU%.T5. = M0T]$24Y'/5%53U1%1"U04DE.5$%"3$4Z1W)U;F1E="!"86MK92 T.#TP1#TPd= M059E:FQE(#<Q,# ],$0],$%$86YM87)K#0I8+5=!0BU'14Y$15(Z,@T*55),t= M.@T*55),.FAT=' Z+R]W=W<N=&5L92YD:PT*0D1!63HQ.34X,3 P. T*14U! = M24P[4%)%1CM)3E1%4DY%5#IL86IA0'1D:RYD:PT*4D56.C(P,# P-# V5#$TA 2,#4T-UH-"D5.1#I60T%21 T*o `  endo   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 10:05:47 -0400! From: Lars Jacobsen <laja@tdk.dk>n* Subject: What is  %SYSTEM-F-ASTFLT error ?J Message-ID: <CB1575D4D198D311A3F800600803947E018A9C8F@scopent3.mar.hp.com>  6 I get this error from time to time on different nodes.  2 Scheduler Job #17 (NAME: DAN_DB) finished, Status:G  %SYSTEM-F-ASTFLT, AST fault, SP=!XL, param=!XL, PC=!XH, PS=!XL, targeto PC=!XH, PS=!XL  2 Always the log says nothing but is simply aborted.8 The last command I can see in the log is related to RDB.' Either RMU/CLOSE or some update/insert.b  + Can anyone lead me in the right direction ?>   -- Kind Regards. ----------------------------------------------. Lars Jacobsen          Phone : +45 89 45 41 80. Tele Danmark IT        Fax   : +45 89 45 61 02 Takseringssystemer (BNTT)w+ S/8-173                email  : laja@tdk.dkl Gunnar Clausens Vej 28 DK-8260 Viby J. ----------------------------------------------           begin 600 Lars Jacobsen.vcfo= M0D5'24XZ5D-!4D0-"E9%4E-)3TXZ,BXQ#0I..DIA8V]B<V5N.TQA<G,-"D9.d= M.DQA<G,@2F%C;V)S96X-"DY)0TM.04U%.D$U.#8T.0T*3U)'.E1E;&4@1&%Nh= M;6%R:R!!+U,[250-"E1)5$Q%.E!R;VIE:W1L961E<@T*5$5,.U=/4DL[5D])t= M0T4Z.#D@-#4@-#$@.#`-"E1%3#M(3TU%.U9/24-%.C<U(#<R(#<P(#$W#0I4 = M14P[0T5,3#M63TE#13HR-"`R-2`S,B`T,0T*5$5,.U=/4DL[1D%8.C@Y(#0Ue= M(#8Q(#`R#0I!1%([5T]22SH[0DY45#M'=6YN87(@0VQA=7-E;G,@5F5J.U9Ie= M8GD@2CL[.#(V,#M$86YM87)K#0I,04)%3#M73U)+.T5.0T]$24Y'/5%53U1%y= M1"U04DE.5$%"3$4Z0DY45#TP1#TP04=U;FYA<B!#;&%U<V5N<R!696H],$0]o= M,$%6:6)Y($H@.#(V,#TP1#TP041A;FUA<FL-"D%$4CM(3TU%.CL[1W)U;F1Ee= M="!"86MK92`T.#M696IL93L[-S$P,#M$86YM87)K#0I,04)%3#M(3TU%.T5.T= M0T]$24Y'/5%53U1%1"U04DE.5$%"3$4Z1W)U;F1E="!"86MK92`T.#TP1#TPl= M059E:FQE(#<Q,#`],$0],$%$86YM87)K#0I8+5=!0BU'14Y$15(Z,@T*55),r= M.@T*55),.FAT='`Z+R]W=W<N=&5L92YD:PT*0D1!63HQ.34X,3`P.`T*14U!l= M24P[4%)%1CM)3E1%4DY%5#IL86IA0'1D:RYD:PT*4D56.C(P,#`P-#`V5#$To 2,#4T-UH-"D5.1#I60T%21`T*n `e endS   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 10:28:28 -04005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>s. Subject: Re: Wierd Elsa Gloria Synergy Problem+ Message-ID: <8ci6qt$mrs$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>e  F Try varying the vsync rate.  The RAMDAC in the 3DLabs P2A chip doesn't reallyL support the rate its set to.  It actually needs to be set down to around 60. You canoL get all kinds off oddball artifacts.  In addition, I have seen various power supplyJ glitches.  You might also try changing the slot to see if i has an effect.  G Minor nits:  I assme this is V7.2-1, and I also assume you meant 4D10T.l        L Zane H. Healy wrote in message <6SxG4.1526$h81.28284@typhoon.aracnet.com>...A >OK, I'll start by trying to provide the specifics on the system.a >.E >System: PWS 433a converted to 433au (had Q-Logic UW-SCSI controller) 4 >SRM: the latest on the web site as of last Saturday >Video: Elsa Gloria Synergy H >Monitor: Digital branded Sony Trinitron 17" from a AlphaStation 500/333K >OS: OpenVMS 7.2 from the hobbyist CD with all the public OS patches excepte >    the one for backup. >  >sD >The problem is the I seem to have 'wiggles' on the left side of the display. >sH >I didn't notice any problems when I had the card running at the defaultG >which I believe is 1024x768 @70Hz with 8-bit.  However when I made thelE >following changes to the SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM I  started  >having problems.  >,7 >$ define/exec/system/nolog decw$server_refresh_rate 75 7 >$ define/exec/system/nolog decw$server_pixel_depth  24s >$ decw$xsize_in_pixels == 1280  >$ decw$ysize_in_pixels == 1024s >AH >These settings are from the GRAPHICS Patch README for the 4D40T which I> >believe is functionally identical to the Elsa Gloria Synergy. > L >So I fired up Mozilla M14 to make sure I was getting the 24-bit colour, andF >not just the higher resolution, and hit a couple sites.  As soon as IJ >started scrolling I noticed something was wrong though.  The left side ofJ >the screen would 'wiggle' when I would scroll up or down.  By wiggling, II >mean that the actual display would shrink in towards the middle and theni
 >back out. > I >My first thought was to blame Mozilla, so I fired up the filemanager ande didvI >some scrolling up and down with it.  Same thing, but to a lessor extent. L >Since I only had a few minutes before I had to leave for work, I decided toH >edit a couple configuration files I needed to make changes in for otherL >stuff, and while paging down in a terminal window I noticed the same thing. > K >Based on the way it's acting, a logical explanation might be that it's thewL >monitor going bad, but I don't believe this is it as it's *only* when thereK >is movement such as scrolling up and down in a window.  If there isn't anysL >movement in any of the windows the picture is rock solid and beautiful.  If< >it was the monitor I believe it would do this all the time. >-J >Has anyone seen this?  I swear I'm not crazy and seeing things, in fact IJ >had to convince myself that to start with.  Does anyone have any ideas on >this? >e > Zane   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 01:08:02 -0700< From: Noel Madlansacay <noel.madlansacay@radiology.ucsf.edu> Subject: Re: Zip file errort4 Message-ID: <v0421010db511f615222b@[128.218.59.173]>   > - >  What context are you having problems with?h' >  From within a DCL command procedure?p >  From batch?    F I am having problems with a batch job in VMS v7.2.  The logical names < are defined correctly.  When I cut/paste the line and do it % interactively I don't get that error.o  , The previous commands uses the same logical.   $show logical rad$zipa>     "RAD$ZIP" = "DSA102:[USER.RADBILL.ZIP]" (LNM$GROUP_000400) $show logical rad$fatal-9     "RAD$FATAL" = "MASTER105:[MRBILL]" (LNM$GROUP_000400)-    B The only difference is that the batch job is submitted by another E user.  (But we  have the same group number).  That process also sets nB it's privs so both have the same privs when I do it interactively.     This is the Zip version:  G Copyright (C) 1990-1997 Mark Adler, Richard B. Wales, Jean-loup Gailly, = Onno van der Linden, Christian Spieler and Igor Mandrichenko.-% Type 'zip "-L"' for software license.-= Zip 2.2 (November 3rd 1997). Usage: zip=="$disk:[dir]zip.exe"n< zip zipfile[.zip] [list] [/EXCL=(xlist)] /options /modifiers   Thanks.-   >JF >  Are you using an ODS-2 or ODS-5 disk structure?  (I could eliminateD >  ODS-5 as an option, if I knew what OpenVMS version you were (not)D >  using.  Posting the OpenVMS version number when posing a question< >  can be quite useful to the folks answering the question.) >SD >  Are all of the logical names defined (and defined the same way asC >  when you try the command interactively) when you try to use them D >  from the particular (failing) environment?  (Try SHOW LOGICAL and( >  DIRECTORY just before the command...) >a. >  Which ZIP tool (and version) are you using? >nO > --------------------------- pure personal opinion --------------------------- M >   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.comi   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.193 ************************