1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 14 Apr 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 208       Contents:% Re: Alpha 1000a to 1200 SCSI Question  Re: Alpha Prices? % Re: ANALYZE crashing a running system  Availability Manager' Re: Compaq Song and Dance (the lack of) ' Re: Compaq Song and Dance (the lack of) ) Re: DEBUGGER - Has anybody installed this ! Re: Dropping DECnet..don't do it! ! Re: Dropping DECnet..don't do it! ! Re: Dropping DECnet..don't do it! ! Re: Dropping DECnet..don't do it! ! Re: Dropping DECnet..don't do it!  FREE DVD PLAYER!! * Re: I can't run/detach in my own X session Ingres and Defragmentation Re: Ingres and Defragmentation Re: Ingres and Defragmentation Re: Manuals for DEC 3000-800 Re: Maximum Password Lengths Re: Maximum Password Lengths Re: Maximum Password Lengths Re: Maximum Password Lengths Re: Maximum Password Lengths Re: Maximum Password Lengths Re: Maximum Password Lengths Re: Maximum Password Lengths Re: Maximum Password Lengths Re: Maximum Password Lengths Re: OpenVMS Certification  Re: OpenVMS Certification # Re: Request for Wildfire/Galaxy URL  Re: RMS errors- Re: Running old layered products on newer VMS - Re: Running old layered products on newer VMS ! Re: Scheduler & PSDC alternatives ! RE: Scheduler & PSDC alternatives ! Re: Scheduler & PSDC alternatives ! Re: Scheduler & PSDC alternatives ! Re: Scheduler & PSDC alternatives ! Shock, horror! An OpenVMS advert! % Re: Shock, horror! An OpenVMS advert! ( So what is better VAX4000 VLC or a 3100?, Re: So what is better VAX4000 VLC or a 3100?, Re: So what is better VAX4000 VLC or a 3100? Re: So who will buy VMS ?  Re: So who will buy VMS ?  Re: So who will buy VMS ?  Re: So who will buy VMS ?  Re: So who will buy VMS ?  Re: So who will buy VMS ?  Re: So who will buy VMS ?  Re: So who will buy VMS ?  Re: So who will buy VMS ?  Re: So who will buy VMS ?  SPAWN, MAIL, lexical functions" RE: SPAWN, MAIL, lexical functions" Re: SPAWN, MAIL, lexical functions" Re: SPAWN, MAIL, lexical functions Re: Sun question for Andrew % VMS 7.2-1 Upgrade & large directories  what does "Dpnd Busy" mean?  XADRIVER documentation?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 13 Apr 2000 22:10:41 CST; From: wayne@tachyon.xxx.515633.killspam.068e (Wayne Sewell) . Subject: Re: Alpha 1000a to 1200 SCSI Question. Message-ID: <HrjxL0oKQwG5@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  a In article <B51B76EE-1D253@165.247.41.57>, "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> writes: M > On Thu, Apr 13, 2000 12:20 AM, Martin Vorlaender <martin@RADIOGAGA.HARZ.DE>  > wrote:5 >>Robert Deininger (rdeininger@mindspring.com) wrote:  >>: I remember this case: E >>: 1. Application does explicit logical name translation on the tape F >>: drive name, saving the result (say MUA1) in a 4-character string.  >>: 2. Source code gets "lost".  >>: 3. SCSI is invented.H >>: 4. I watch the poor schmuck who tried to make it work, when the onlyH >>: tape drive available was named MKA400.  There was no way to fix this >>: by defining a logical name.  >>
 >>Wouldn't >>8 >>  $ DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXEC/TRANSLATION=CONCEAL MUA1 MKA400 >> >>help?  > H > No.  As I recall, the program forced its way though multiple levels ofC > logical names, even if they were concealed.  It was a VERY smart  H > program.  The author made a very LITTLE bit of VMS knowledge go a long > way.  G If it was truly a smart program, you wouldn't be having problems now.        --  O =============================================================================== K Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachyon.xxx 8 http://www.tachyon.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O =============================================================================== N Butler:"Gentlemen!"  Curly(as he and other Stooges look around):"Who came in?"   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 19:28:19 GMT , From: kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org (Bob Kaplow) Subject: Re: Alpha Prices?' Message-ID: <2000Apr13.152819.1@eisner>   f In article <ZbjI4.14414$2D6.394039@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:N > result: almost all prices are between US$60k and US$140k (except GS140 which > is US$404K). > 6 > p.s. Does anyone know why the GS140 is so expensive?  G It's a much bigger box. It's a renamed 8400 Turbolaser package. All the K little boxes are rack mountable, or at least can be had that way. The GS140 L is a full 800mm rack of its own, capable of supporting 14 CPUs instead of upC to 4, 28GB memory, and 144 PCI slots (not all together of course).    I If you don't need quite that many CPUs or memory, look at the GS60E which I has 7 backplane slots instead of the GS140s 9, but costs a LOT less. They 1 all use the same modules for CPU, memory, and IO.    	Bob Kaplow	  E SPAM:	spamrecycle@ChooseYourmail.com	uce@ftc.gov	postmaster@127.0.0.1    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 16:40:27 -0400 1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> . Subject: Re: ANALYZE crashing a running system2 Message-ID: <38F630BB.F8B6C876@clarityconnect.com>  F In my >10 years in the CSC I have not heard of it.  I suppose it could@ happen if something else was corrupted underneath it and it tookG ANALYZE/SYSTEM to create the right events to come across the corruption F and thus trigger a crash.  But this could happen with any application.   cd_root@my-deja.com wrote: > I > Anyone ever hear of ANALYZE/SYSTEM crashing a running system? Even back  > in 4.x, 5.x, 6.x???  > TIA  > ( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.    --  D Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 00:48:35 GMT  From: trdorr@my-deja.com Subject: Availability Manager ) Message-ID: <8d5psv$p37$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   = I just became aware of COMPAQ'S product AVAILABILITY MANAGER. E Has anyone used AVAILABILITY and how does it compare with other types D of Performance type utilities? Is it easy to install and how does it work with JAVA? ? What graphing capabilities are offered in AVAILABILITY MANAGER? G Please comment. I would like to install and use but don't want to waste 8 time if AVAILABILITY does not provide detailed analysis. Thanks,  Tom     & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 19:17:17 GMT , From: kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org (Bob Kaplow)0 Subject: Re: Compaq Song and Dance (the lack of)' Message-ID: <2000Apr13.151717.1@eisner>   Z In article <38EFA05D.307970E5@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:N > And, from a financial perspective, last October or thereabouts, both AMD andP > Compaq stock was around $18 per share.  Today AMD's stock is at $74 per share,Q > and Compaq's closed yesterday at $29.50 per share.  Every time I think about my N > decision in November when I didn't buy some AMD stock, I smack myself on the > head and shout IDIOT!   L Before you rush out to invest in AMD, remember that's where our buddy Robert8 Palmer landed after his last employer got bought out :-(   	Bob Kaplow	  E SPAM:	spamrecycle@ChooseYourmail.com	uce@ftc.gov	postmaster@127.0.0.1    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:04:54 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>0 Subject: Re: Compaq Song and Dance (the lack of)- Message-ID: <38F67CC6.3BAAFE60@tsoft-inc.com>    Bob Kaplow wrote:  > \ > In article <38EFA05D.307970E5@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:P > > And, from a financial perspective, last October or thereabouts, both AMD andR > > Compaq stock was around $18 per share.  Today AMD's stock is at $74 per share,S > > and Compaq's closed yesterday at $29.50 per share.  Every time I think about my P > > decision in November when I didn't buy some AMD stock, I smack myself on the > > head and shout IDIOT!  > N > Before you rush out to invest in AMD, remember that's where our buddy Robert: > Palmer landed after his last employer got bought out :-( >  >         Bob Kaplow > N > SPAM:   spamrecycle@ChooseYourmail.com  uce@ftc.gov     postmaster@127.0.0.1  K Yeah, I know.  But he must not be in charge, cause they're doing it right.  M Spitting right in Intel's face, and teasing them with small increments in the L Athlon.  Well, there could be the customer who bought an 800 MHz Athlon, andO might figure he should have had the 1 GHz for the same money.  It is a bit like P DEC holding back when they were the #1 game in town, milking current systems for9 revenues when they could have offered better systems. :-(   L Hey, maybe he is in charge.  That type of thing came back to bite DEC pretty hard.    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596; 170 Grimplin Road               E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------   Date: 13 Apr 2000 14:57:50 PDTT From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515)2 Subject: Re: DEBUGGER - Has anybody installed this3 Message-ID: <NP3YmYkMP4bo@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>   4 In article <38F5E647.D7EA107C@unnecessary.csc.com>, ;     	Adrian Birkett <abirkett.@unnecessary.csc.com> writes:   I > Has anybody had experience of installing the seperate debugger supplied J > with C++ V6.2 Alpha and Fortran 7.2 Alpha for use with other languages -C > specifically ADA and especially on a lower version of VMS that is  > implied by the kit (7.2).  > J > I have been advised to install this ADX072 kit on an alpha running 7.1-2J > but I am wary that it is apparently intended for installation on 7.2 andJ > is not supplied with the ADA kit. We have no intentions at this point of3 > ugrading to VMS 7.2 (there are specific reasons).  > ? > Is anyone aware of any issues that may arise from doing this.   H         Yes, we've been using (various  incarnations of) the ADX072 (andH     earlier)  DEBUGGER under VMS 7.1, 7.1-1H2, and now 7.2-1.  You don'tH     need to be concerned about installing it onearlier VMS versions  (atH     least 7.x) because the various images are _linked_ on your system at     installation time, IIRC.  H         There are  a  few  things  I  don't  care  for  in  SYS$STARTUP:H     DEBUG$STARTUP_V72X.COM.   In the first place, it defines the logicalH     name LINK to point to the LINKER64.EXE  image...which  has  problemsH     building  some  of  our  images.  Secondly, I _really_ hated the wayH     SYS$STARTUP:DEBUGSETUP.COM (called from DEBUG$STARTUP_V72X) does SETH     COMMAND to  your  DCLTABLES  in  a  number  of  places.   IMHO, it'sH     unnecessary:   you  SET  COMMAND  the  verb  you  want  _once_,   atH     installation, not at every system boot.  I've  gone  so  far  as  toH     comment-out  _every_ SET COMMAND command in that file (and I have toH     repeat that modification for each new version of the Debugger that I
     install)!   H         All that said,  the  current  release  of DEBUG_V72X works quiteH     well.   Don't hesitate to install it.  You _need_ it if you're going+     to debug either CXX or Fortran 90 code.            -Ken --  M  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Edu :  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924:  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515N  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------B  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Apr 2000 14:43:54 PDTT From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515)* Subject: Re: Dropping DECnet..don't do it!3 Message-ID: <VYbmzetbE6ov@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>   ( In article <FsyJ70.I7M@spcuna.spc.edu>, /     	Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> writes:  [...] N >   For the original poster - if you're a MultiNet shop, you should be able toN > use Phase/IV (originally called DECnot) to encapsulate DECnet over Phase IV.  H         Small correction: the Multinet  component  is called (used to beH     called)   Phase/IP   (now   called  "TCP/IP  Services   for   DECNETH     Applications", whew!).  I've used it to  a  limited  extent  on  ourH     cluster  primarily to give DECNET access over a PPP dial-up link forH     one of our developers on the Left Coast.  No complaints; easy to set4     up; no separate license required; Multinet 4.2A.  H         BTW, I made a _large_ effort  testing with Decnet-Plus and LANCPH     on  a DS10 (at VMS 7.2-1) prior to upgrading the rest of my  clusterH     from VMS 7.1-1H2 to 7.2-1 last December.  I had two primary  reasonsH     for  doing  so.   First,  so  that I could run DECNET over two of myH     AS4100s' four network interfaces instead  of the single interface atH     a  time as restricted under Phase IV.  Secondly, so that I could useH     Decnet over IP to get Decnet access to another cluster on site whichH     has already been running Decnet-Plus for  a  number  of  years  now,@     given that DECNET routing at our site was cut off last Fall.  H         Unfortunately, I could  not  get  LANCP  to reliably service MOPH     requests  from  some old VT1300's we use, _and_, even if the  DS10'sH     LANCP did happen to be successful, I couldn't subsequently open  theH     VT1300's  display.   [We run the VT1300's with no process logged in;H     under Phase IV,  the  node  which  services  the  VT1300's  MOP loadH     request  is  able  to open the VT1300's  display  over  DECNET...andH     DECwindows over IP doesn't work to the VT1300s without a user loggedH     in...]  Also, I was not convinced that I was _really_  able  to  useH     both  interfaces  on  the DS10 for DECNET even thought they are bothH     configured.  This with  an  end-node  license  only,  but with threeA     VAXen on the same networks that all have Routing IV licenses.   H         All in  all,  I'm  quite  disappointed  by  both Decnet-Plus andH     LANCP.   I'll probably add the DS10 to the cluster using Decnet-PlusH     (since it has its own system disk), which will give DECNET access toH     the "other cluster" from our cluster, but I'm  going  to  stay  with)     DECNET IV on all our "big" servers...            -Ken --  M  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Edu :  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924:  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515N  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------B  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 02:06:11 GMT $ From: Ed Wilts <ewilts@mediaone.net>* Subject: Re: Dropping DECnet..don't do it!, Message-ID: <38F67D13.6E280361@mediaone.net>  9 "Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515" wrote:  > J >         BTW, I made a _large_ effort  testing with Decnet-Plus and LANCPJ >     on  a DS10 (at VMS 7.2-1) prior to upgrading the rest of my  clusterJ >     from VMS 7.1-1H2 to 7.2-1 last December.  I had two primary  reasonsJ >     for  doing  so.   First,  so  that I could run DECNET over two of myJ >     AS4100s' four network interfaces instead  of the single interface at- >     a  time as restricted under Phase IV.     H This is a myth.  I spent some time with Tony in the CSC listening to himF tell me that DECnet would only select the first functioning interface,> only to have me prove him wrong and clearly demonstrate a nodeF simultaneously using DECnet on FOUR interfaces.  He then told me aboutG all the problems I could run into, none of which have popped up as long E as I've been at this site (2.5 years).  We're still running Phase IV, = will upgrade to Phase V over my dead body, but are working on F transitioning all our DECnet traffic to a single network segment to beF on the safe side.  Tony did tell me how much better Phase V has gottenE over the years, but Terry Kennedy's recent posting suggests that it's @ still the pile of crap^H^H^H^Hblackmagic it was a few years ago.   	.../Ed  -- C Ed Wilts Mounds View, MN, USA mailto:ewilts@mediaone.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 23:56:28 -0400 0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>* Subject: Re: Dropping DECnet..don't do it!/ Message-ID: <38F696E7.82A39019@vl.videotron.ca>.   Richard Brodie wrote:iC > I'd be interested to hear why you think DECnet V is an issue. Thep? > whole point of the IV->V change was that Phase V supported IPR= > (and another protocol family whose name escapes me) as welln > as the native network layer.      L I had installed DECNET-PLUS on my home workstation to check it out. While itN wasn't too difficult to get it working, it ended up being too much of a hassleL to get it to work without issuing tons of messages. Also, the learning curve! is much tougher than clustering. u  J So, I reverted back to the godo old trusted DECNET phase 4 which works, is/ simple, and doesn't issue billions of messages.f  N Yes, one can learn the phase 5 stuff and get it working the way you want it toB work. But the time spent learning it is the problem in my opinion.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:14:49 -0400E* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>* Subject: Re: Dropping DECnet..don't do it!- Message-ID: <38F67F19.667B56DB@tsoft-inc.com>i   Richard Brodie wrote:p > R > <adrian_parker@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8d4489$slj$1@nnrp1.deja.com...F > > Our networks team kindly decided to drop DECnet over the wide-area > > network, which was nice  > C > > Short of setting up DECnet over TCP/IP which doesn't seem to beuI > > supported by Compaq with Phase IV DECnet (meaning we would have to gooK > > Phase V which is not practical for us), this seems to be my only option H > > (but doesn't that defeat the object of going IP?). Perhaps if othersC > > have been in this situation then they could share some of theirl > > experience.P > F > I would suggest you look again at DECnet V over IP, using Local/BindC > namespaces.  It is a bit more heavyweight than DECnet IV but withn3 > modern machines, that's not so much of a problem.- > C > I'd be interested to hear why you think DECnet V is an issue. Then? > whole point of the IV->V change was that Phase V supported IPA= > (and another protocol family whose name escapes me) as wellh > as the native network layer.  O In my book, new replacement software should be better than that being replaced,sO in all ways, including ease of use.  In several ways, DECnet phase V was a step M backwards.  Not good.  One good feature does not equal a step backwards.  Oneb: step backwards can outweigh 10 good features.  My opinion.  N Once you know how to do DECnet over IP, it shouldn't be hard to allow Phase IVM to be included.  Since TCPware and MultiNet can do it, I've got to ask if any>& DECnet phase IV changes are necessary.   Dave   -- ,4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596; 170 Grimplin Road               E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.comT Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:16:55 -0400o* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>* Subject: Re: Dropping DECnet..don't do it!- Message-ID: <38F67F97.1DE4C65A@tsoft-inc.com>    Tim Llewellyn wrote: > " > adrian_parker@my-deja.com wrote: > F > > Our networks team kindly decided to drop DECnet over the wide-area > > network, which was nice= > >= > B > So, send them the bill to migrate to Phase V. Need a consultant?  L Tim raises a good point.  Just who's running the asylum?  I'd always thoughtM that the networking people were providing a service, not dictating company ITs policy.-   Dave   > >=H > > I'm sure this has been asked before, but did I really have to use R-A > > Commands/FTP/SMTP to do all those things that used to work som > > wonderfully before?- > >- >  > It will NOT BE THE SAME. >  > --8 > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project2 > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.C > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukc > C > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofi > MedAS or the BBC.k   -- $4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596; 170 Grimplin Road               E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.coml Vanderbilt, PA  15486e   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 00:34:03 GMT0 From: vertega@yahoo.comb Subject: FREE DVD PLAYER!!: Message-ID: <%HtJ4.20550$9F6.6669@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com>  j Here is a new online site offering a free DVD player as part of a promotion.  Can't hurt to try I guess.    n/ http://www.ikena.com/downloads/?refCID=dbakriwal  .  e@ Here is another site that is offering a Palm computer.  Why not?  	+ http://www.jackpot.com/win.asp?ref=105-4980f   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 01:49:55 GMTh5 From: David Warren <david.warren_deletethis@home.com><3 Subject: Re: I can't run/detach in my own X sessionh( Message-ID: <38F63E30.3EA2C767@home.com>  I As others have said, a detached process doesn't inherit logicals and thus 
 decw$display.s  E We have come up with the solution of writing a small application thatoI defines a logical XUSR$<username> in the decw table to be whatever string J they specify, then installing it sysnam & sysprv.  It's simple, but if you want source let me know.  F This command is inserted into the various comfiles for local and rexecH session logins.  This lets users move from one node to another opening XK apps or decterms without having to remember their IP.  (Via the appropriateu com files.)e  C Obviously, this doesn't work if the same user logs in from multipleMG places.  This usually means someone has shared their account, so I just - offer them the forms to get a proper one.  ;)-  I The undocumented command "show display/symbol" (shown to me here) is alsoA highly useful.   Ildefonso Junquero wrote:$   > Hello! >mI >     I'm having an extrange problem... I can't run/detach an x client onn > my own xserver.I >aI >     I've a new CDE and a configured security manager with node * user *  > and transport *a >hJ >     If I run : run decw$utils:xmag (for example), all works ok, but if i > run :M >G- >         run/detach  decw$utils:xmag/out=a.an >s> >     the client says in a.a : xmag: unable to open display "" >e  >     can anyone help me please? > 
 >     Thanks!o >t >     Ilde.. >/ > --H > ______________________________________________________________________H >                   Ildefonso Junquero      e@mail : junquero@sainsel.es% >     ___    __o    Software Engineers1 >    ____  _'\<,_   Sainsel Sistemas Navales S.A.<1 >  ______ (*)/ (*)  C/ Manuel Velasco Pando, N. 7a) >                   41007 Sevilla (Spain)i, >    Go faster!     Phone : +34-95-493 64 65, >   Use the byke!   Fax   : +34-95-493 64 33H > ______________________________________________________________________   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 13:01:37 -0700i$ From: sroyer <steve.royer@ssq.qc.ca># Subject: Ingres and Defragmentationa9 Message-ID: <1365dd94.923038e0@usw-ex0102-013.remarq.com>e  4 Does anyone have experimented a defragmentation in a Ingres environment ?  < Anyone can suggest a disk defragmenter that can do the job ?  	 Thank Youf -Steve  L * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *G The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!:   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 16:13:15 -0400i# From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu> ' Subject: Re: Ingres and Defragmentationo+ Message-ID: <38F62A5B.641836C4@hsc.vcu.edu>e  F we'ved used raxco's perfectdisk product for almost 13 years... it runsH so doggone well we've even dropped support since we didn't call them for 7 years.   only gotcha we ran into:  H we have a FORTRAN system that monitors the MCV Neuroscience ICU every 30D seconds.  when perfect disk was running, it was throttled during theG day, and wide open at night. we kept getting strange timestamps, and itA) was coming straight from the system call.   H finally, after weeks of debugging, i convinced my sysadmin to close down/ pd during the day, and run throttled at night..l   end of problem..  G we serve web pages, do realtime digital and analog data acquistion, andeE ingres, fortran compiles, email hub, and we used to do runoff for the : research papers... show me the NT box that can do that....   jimh  
 sroyer wrote:u > 6 > Does anyone have experimented a defragmentation in a > Ingres environment ? > > > Anyone can suggest a disk defragmenter that can do the job ? >  > Thank Youg > -Steve > N > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *I > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 02:24:49 GMTe5 From: David Warren <david.warren_deletethis@home.com>r' Subject: Re: Ingres and Defragmentations( Message-ID: <38F6465E.6EB60E3B@home.com>  N We have used Diskeeper by Executive Software for somewhere around 6 years withO Ingres.  We aren't doing real-time data aquisition, though.   Mileage may vary,D just another pointer.n  M Be forewarned, the previous contact person warned me that if you get on their<J 'list of contacts' you will get mail or email every two weeks or less from their marketing department.   
 sroyer wrote:   6 > Does anyone have experimented a defragmentation in a > Ingres environment ? >o> > Anyone can suggest a disk defragmenter that can do the job ? >a > Thank You  > -Steve >rN > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *I > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 19:57:08 GMTh, From: kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org (Bob Kaplow)% Subject: Re: Manuals for DEC 3000-800e' Message-ID: <2000Apr13.155708.1@eisner>r  Y In article <38F33A9C.9A6E76D1@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:nF > Someone (Bob Koehler?) was asking for 3000-300 manuals. They are at: > 1 > http://www.digital.com/lists/QB_archive_HD.htmln > , > But no 3000-400 or 3000-800 manuals there.  F Wrong Bob. It was me. But this is the Systems and Options archive, notE anything like the Users Guide or such, which is what I'm looking for.    	Bob Kaplow	  E SPAM:	spamrecycle@ChooseYourmail.com	uce@ftc.gov	postmaster@127.0.0.1d   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 13:59:27 -0400c  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com% Subject: Re: Maximum Password Lengthsl4 Message-ID: <C22568C0.00626CDA.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  0 gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl on 04/13/2000 12:56:31 PM   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comr cc: & Subject:  Re: Maximum Password Lengths        6 \On Thu, 13 Apr 2000 norm.raphael@jamesbury.com wrote: \aE \+For OpenVMS, Passwords can be from 0 to 32 characters in length andn \u< \ If I am not wrong (correction welcome) the password can be8 \1 to 32 chars, and VMS user can have 0,1 or 2 password;8 \setting 0 char lenght is impossible *or* unsupported :)6 \(can't check, VMSes are off and I will go to home :|)7 \ IMO the proper behaviour for "0 char password" may bee4 \"Username:", "Password:" and acceptance of <ENTER>.; \ No question "Password:" from system means "no password" !e \tE \+can include alphanumeric characters, dollar signs, and underscores.  \c \ Isn't the "-" also allowed ?6 \ AFAIR all characters allowed in filenames were ok... \- \ Regards - Gotfryd-7 \PS: Norm, minor please: insert answer after citates...i \--rF \=====================================================================G \$ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") -r \         THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME2/ \$!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plnF \===================================================================== Gotfryd,F It's an artifact of the Notes Mail Client I have to use that the priorC messages get pushed down, but I'll try to do it this way as I, too,t find it easier to follow.o  D The "0 to 32 characters" I cut from the OpenVMS Alpha help file fromD AUTHORIZE ADD /PASSWORD.  I suppose "0" is equivalent to /NOPASSWORD@ although I'd guess you are correct about setting it as a length.  C I guess that "-" must be an alphanumeric character if it works  8-)  Do you know that definition?   -Normp   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 17:46:38 GMTr From: d.webb@mdx.ac.uk% Subject: Re: Maximum Password Lengths ) Message-ID: <8d515o$t27$1@nnrp1.deja.com>4  4 In article <C22568C0.005991F8.00@jklh21.valmet.com>,#   norm.raphael@jamesbury.com wrote:S >( >VE > For OpenVMS, Passwords can be from 0 to 32 characters in length and1E > can include alphanumeric characters, dollar signs, and underscores.  >  >i  D It's high time that this restricted set of characters was increased.E It should include virtually any character inputable from the standardr keyboard at leastV   ie  3 !"$%%^&*()_-+={}[]:;@'~#<,>.?/|\ + alphanumerics.e    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.h   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Apr 2000 18:31:53 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)% Subject: Re: Maximum Password Lengthso. Message-ID: <8d53qp$42u$2@info.service.rug.nl>  B In article <8d515o$t27$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, d.webb@mdx.ac.uk writes:  G > > For OpenVMS, Passwords can be from 0 to 32 characters in length anddG > > can include alphanumeric characters, dollar signs, and underscores.  > F > It's high time that this restricted set of characters was increased.G > It should include virtually any character inputable from the standardg > keyboard at least    Why? > ie > 5 > !"$%%^&*()_-+={}[]:;@'~#<,>.?/|\ + alphanumerics.c  ( Err, where's the pound sign on my LKxxx?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:19:01 -0400i# From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>r% Subject: Re: Maximum Password Lengths + Message-ID: <38F61DA5.32B7B84B@hsc.vcu.edu>t  G i had to do that once when people were trying to break into my account,e8 and it also shuts off decnet copy access, since the copy1 node"unam pass":: syntax can't take 2 passwords..    jimc   d.webb@mdx.ac.uk wrote:u >  > In articleB > <F150836441C5D311A11700508B6FF01A6D5771@bdant024.bda.bobda.com>,6 >   "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com> wrote:( > > VMS is 32 characters, NT & W2K is 15 > >a > D > You can also setup VMS accounts to have two passwords each of upto > 32 characters.F > This is usually used for dual control accounts - ie an account which7 > can only be logged into by two people acting togethers& > ie each having one of the passwords.F > However it can also be used with one person having to put in the two > passwords. > E > Note. On a number of Unix systems although you can set the password3= > to a longer string the effective maximum password is only 8-, > characters (later characters are ignored). >  > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >  > > > ----------B > > > From:       Michael D. Ober[SMTP:mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam]3 > > > Sent:       Thursday, April 13, 2000 11:46 AM ' > > > To:         Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comd* > > > Subject:    Maximum Password Lengths > > >wC > > > What is the maximum user password length on VMS 7.2, and NT 4r
 > Domain, and  > > > a C > > > Win 2000 Active Directory?  I need information for all three.n > > >m
 > > > Thanks,D > > > Mike Ober. > > >h > >s > ( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:19:45 -0400 # From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>I% Subject: Re: Maximum Password Lengthsp+ Message-ID: <38F61DD1.84A02660@hsc.vcu.edu>5  5 you pound the keyboard to get it!!!!!! ;-)  hee hee..    Jim    Phillip Helbig wrote:e > D > In article <8d515o$t27$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, d.webb@mdx.ac.uk writes: > I > > > For OpenVMS, Passwords can be from 0 to 32 characters in length andtI > > > can include alphanumeric characters, dollar signs, and underscores.  > > H > > It's high time that this restricted set of characters was increased.I > > It should include virtually any character inputable from the standard- > > keyboard at least  >  > Why? > > ie > >:7 > > !"$%%^&*()_-+={}[]:;@'~#<,>.?/|\ + alphanumerics.n > * > Err, where's the pound sign on my LKxxx?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:58:59 -0400i  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com% Subject: Re: Maximum Password Lengths 4 Message-ID: <C22568C0.006CF7E5.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  + agnew@hsc.vcu.edu on 04/13/2000 03:19:01 PMn   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comt cc:t& Subject:  Re: Maximum Password Lengths        H /i had to do that once when people were trying to break into my account,9 /and it also shuts off decnet copy access, since the copye2 /node"unam pass":: syntax can't take 2 passwords.. /lF Yes, indeed.  I once shot off decnet copy access like that by mistake. (That's a feature, not a bug.) -NormT /jim   d.webb@mdx.ac.uk wrote:  >  > In articleB > <F150836441C5D311A11700508B6FF01A6D5771@bdant024.bda.bobda.com>,6 >   "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com> wrote:( > > VMS is 32 characters, NT & W2K is 15 > >. > D > You can also setup VMS accounts to have two passwords each of upto > 32 characters.F > This is usually used for dual control accounts - ie an account which7 > can only be logged into by two people acting togetherr& > ie each having one of the passwords.F > However it can also be used with one person having to put in the two > passwords. >iE > Note. On a number of Unix systems although you can set the passwordn= > to a longer string the effective maximum password is only 8n, > characters (later characters are ignored). >e > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University >f > > > ----------B > > > From:       Michael D. Ober[SMTP:mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam]3 > > > Sent:       Thursday, April 13, 2000 11:46 AMi' > > > To:         Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi* > > > Subject:    Maximum Password Lengths > > >kC > > > What is the maximum user password length on VMS 7.2, and NT 4b
 > Domain, andi > > > aDC > > > Win 2000 Active Directory?  I need information for all three.m > > > 
 > > > Thanks,s > > > Mike Ober. > > >  > >t >i( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.P   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 16:01:12 -0400   From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com% Subject: Re: Maximum Password Lengthso4 Message-ID: <C22568C0.006D2BDE.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  > --0__=yySobGzacJsj0FYxyZNEw08ZaJS487k2UBLqbaqXLROUD9FAIhoc9hQ1* Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inlinee                - helbig@astro.rug.nl on 04/13/2000 02:31:53 PMs  % Please respond to helbig@astro.rug.nl    To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com  cc:    Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com& Subject:  Re: Maximum Password Lengths      > --0__=yySobGzacJsj0FYxyZNEw08ZaJS487k2UBLqbaqXLROUD9FAIhoc9hQ1, Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inlinea+ Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable-      C /In article <8d515o$t27$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, d.webb@mdx.ac.uk writes:i / H /> > For OpenVMS, Passwords can be from 0 to 32 characters in length an= d5H /> > can include alphanumeric characters, dollar signs, and underscores= .E />H /> It's high time that this restricted set of characters was increased.=  H /> It should include virtually any character inputable from the standar= d  /> keyboard at least /C /Why?r /> ied />< /> !"=A3$%%^&*()_-+=3D{}[]:;@'~#<,>.?/|\=AC + alphanumerics. /i) /Err, where's the pound sign on my LKxxx?? / 6 Err, right around the Euro key.  [Hint, it's a shift.]         =s  @ --0__=yySobGzacJsj0FYxyZNEw08ZaJS487k2UBLqbaqXLROUD9FAIhoc9hQ1--   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Apr 2000 21:30:03 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)% Subject: Re: Maximum Password Lengthsl. Message-ID: <8d5e8r$6uq$2@info.service.rug.nl>  4 In article <C22568C0.006D2BDE.00@jklh21.valmet.com>,# norm.raphael@jamesbury.com writes: a  8 > Err, right around the Euro key.  [Hint, it's a shift.]  H I think in some UK-specific keyboards, the # is replaced with the pound & sign, but it's certainly not standard.  = ---Phillip "seven-bit printable ASCII at most, please" HelbigC   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 02:34:37 GMTo$ From: Ed Wilts <ewilts@mediaone.net>% Subject: Re: Maximum Password Lengths , Message-ID: <38F683BD.5D94523C@mediaone.net>  ! norm.raphael@jamesbury.com wrote:- > - > agnew@hsc.vcu.edu on 04/13/2000 03:19:01 PMe > J > /i had to do that once when people were trying to break into my account,; > /and it also shuts off decnet copy access, since the copyg4 > /node"unam pass":: syntax can't take 2 passwords.. > /rH > Yes, indeed.  I once shot off decnet copy access like that by mistake.  > (That's a feature, not a bug.) > -Norma > /jim  D It's not just DECnet that breaks.  There are other applications thatE will reject the multiple passwords as well.  I believe that SYSMAN ism one of them.  F The theory behind a double password is that you need 2 PEOPLE - one toF enter each password.  Therefore, it does not make sense to do a DECnet0 file copy with the password in the command line.  C A double password was never intended as a replacement for a single,wD longer password.  There ain't a hope in hell that anyone can break aE properly used (re-read the last 2 words before correcting me on this)t 32-character single password.    	.../Ed  -- s Ed Wilts Mounds View, MN, USA mailto:ewilts@mediaone.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 23:16:35 -0400m, From: taterskins@patriot.net (Ramon L. Tate)% Subject: Re: Maximum Password Lengths D Message-ID: <taterskins-ya023480001304002316350001@news.patriot.net>  K In article <38F683BD.5D94523C@mediaone.net>, Ed Wilts <ewilts@mediaone.net>  wrote:  # > norm.raphael@jamesbury.com wrote:e > > / > > agnew@hsc.vcu.edu on 04/13/2000 03:19:01 PMm > > L > > /i had to do that once when people were trying to break into my account,= > > /and it also shuts off decnet copy access, since the copyp6 > > /node"unam pass":: syntax can't take 2 passwords.. > > /IJ > > Yes, indeed.  I once shot off decnet copy access like that by mistake." > > (That's a feature, not a bug.)	 > > -Normr > > /jim > F > It's not just DECnet that breaks.  There are other applications thatG > will reject the multiple passwords as well.  I believe that SYSMAN is: > one of them. > H > The theory behind a double password is that you need 2 PEOPLE - one toH > enter each password.  Therefore, it does not make sense to do a DECnet2 > file copy with the password in the command line. > E > A double password was never intended as a replacement for a single,nF > longer password.  There ain't a hope in hell that anyone can break aG > properly used (re-read the last 2 words before correcting me on this)S > 32-character single password.  >  >         .../Ed > -- h
 > Ed Wilts > Mounds View, MN, USA > mailto:ewilts@mediaone.net  K I found the double password feature very useful for the high-priv accounts, E e.g. SYSTEM. Of course it forces the the use of a more-or-less directcK terminal connection, although if I needed access to the SYSTEM account fromwK another system, I could always log in via an unprived account and then do an# SET HOST 0 for a prived login. YMMVn   -- t
 Ramon L. Tatee	 Casa Maaa= taterskins@patriot.net   "Skin" that "tater" before replying!:   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 19:27:27 GMTi- From: goathunter@PROCESS.COM (Hunter Goatley)r" Subject: Re: OpenVMS Certification- Message-ID: <38f61f21.116235507@news.wku.edu>r  A On 13 Apr 2000 15:10:11 GMT, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)t wrote:  J >Of course, everyone knows and loves Hunter's server, but there is also a    Thanks! 8-)l  H >It IS fun building all the packages, but a bit more automation would be >nice as well.  D That's what I've attempted to do with my archive; it's not automatedA with VMSINSTAL, but there are binaries available with most of ther packages there.n  5 >Also, I think that I and many others who have rollediB >their own stuff would be more willing to take the time to make itE >available, which includes writing HELP and BOOKREADER files etc, if cG >there were some central archive, where one could first make sure that h, >no-one else has already done this (better). >o) >Or has someone already implemented this?n >n? That was my goal, but Real Work always gets in the way of doing F everything I'd like to do.  If I could figure out how to make a living doing freeware, I'd love that.   Hunter     Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/c8 <goathunter@PROCESS.COM>     http://www2.wku.edu/hunter/   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Apr 2000 21:36:06 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)" Subject: Re: OpenVMS Certification. Message-ID: <8d5ek6$6uq$3@info.service.rug.nl>  D In article <38f61f21.116235507@news.wku.edu>, goathunter@PROCESS.COM (Hunter Goatley) writes: t  J > >It IS fun building all the packages, but a bit more automation would be > >nice as well. > F > That's what I've attempted to do with my archive; it's not automatedC > with VMSINSTAL, but there are binaries available with most of theh > packages there.y  G This is not exactly what I meant.  Building the individual packages is rH usually quite straightforward.  I meant something like a menu where one F can select which packages one wants, perhaps from a subset which have I only been updated since one's last update, and then download them all at rC once and after that build them all at once.  This I think would be aH relatively easy to do.  More work would be required to have ONE archive G with EVERYTHING in it, all stuff packaged consistently with consistent aC and nice documentation and all with the quality of Madgoat stuff...-  I > >there were some central archive, where one could first make sure that s. > >no-one else has already done this (better).  C ... especially for this reason---you want to avoid re-inventing thecF wheel, but this requires knowing if someone else has already done so.   A > That was my goal, but Real Work always gets in the way of doing  > everything I'd like to do.    4 Well, at least your Real Work is VMS-related, right?  , > If I could figure out how to make a living  > doing freeware, I'd love that.  % How big a salary would you need?  :-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 19:32:02 GMTP, From: kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org (Bob Kaplow), Subject: Re: Request for Wildfire/Galaxy URL' Message-ID: <2000Apr13.153202.1@eisner>9  b In article <38F234D1.C0C1C63D@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes: > "Arthur E. Ragosta" wrote:> >> > Is there such a magic URL hidden away in Digital's site ? >> nA >> http://www.digital.com/alphaserver/announce/oct99_preview.html  > I > I guess I did ask for a "magic" URL... I obviouslt don't have the rightMF > incantation and magic trick because that page appears to me with a : > O >                         stay tuned to this page for a big announcement comingn >                         soon!g  K This has just changed in the past few days. It was there earlier this week.a@ I expect the GS80, GS160, and GS320 announcement is days away...   	Bob Kaplow	  E SPAM:	spamrecycle@ChooseYourmail.com	uce@ftc.gov	postmaster@127.0.0.1s   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 17:10:59 GMTc. From: Michael Austin <maustin@nc.prestige.net> Subject: Re: RMS errorsl/ Message-ID: <38F60BC4.9329DC32@nc.prestige.net>e  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------ABC54902C11C5D1E9318FFB3* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit=  e Getting closer... I finally figured out that the data bucket begins at VBN 447472 and is 21 blocks in/f size.  VBN 447475 is all 0's (looks like a BBR). Now,  within this VBN it contained 14 record that arej parts of an index.  What do I need to patch in order to "skip" this block of data?   How do I get the lastd record in VBN 447474 to jump to 447476 or would that be too easy.  Bucket at VBN 239914 contains thef pointers to VBN447475  How would I correct these?  I logged a call with RMS support but have not heard back from them yet.   b How do you use zap to correct these issues?  I couldn't figure out how to enter new data.  Thanks.  
 Thanks again.m         hein@eps.zko.dec.c*m wrote:y  d > In article <38F53D61.B60BEEA0@nc.prestige.net>, Michael Austin <maustin@nc.prestige.net> writes.../ > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.m) > >--------------39844262B9DCD08AFBB9C658$- > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii9" > >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >lG > >After patching the CHECK byte, I was able to most of it to come back  >c >         Cool!t >n0 > > (VBN 447472). There is still a severe error: > >,M > >***  VBN 447472:  Key and/or data bytes do not fit in primary data record.t8 > >Unrecoverable error encountered in structure of file. > E > probably a similar cause as the check byte, a partial bucket write,+F > but this time making a compress record run into random data, causing > rms to loose track.e >n: > >How do you  know what the CHECK BYTE is supposed to be.- > > In one copy of the file the check byte is h > > 25, in the corrupt one it was 27.  I know the check byte is in  the first long word in the VBN, from6 > >where does it get the byte that it compares it too? > G > The very last byte. Both are updated each time the bucket is updated. M > Use ANA/RMS/INT pos/buck to read, of the 'zap' tool. (i'll include it here)n >dN > >I was unable to determine why all the problems with VBN 239914 (85 errors). >aL > >***  VBN 238822:  Record at offset %X'1573' has a missing or illegal RRV. > ) > Well, I'd probably switch to plan B ... J > Look's like that bucket wants it NEXT FREE byte to be set to x1573  :-).G > Actaully, the 'tail' of the previous record is proably brokn, and you-J > probably want to set the free byte one record before the reported place. >e > ;nM > ; Simplistic tool to Read, Verify, Modify and Rewrite Indexed file buckets.. > ;8; > ; Main use is to PATCH remote or very large indexed file.y0 > ; as it reads & writes only the blocks needed. > ' > ; Have fun, Hein van den Heuvel, 1985uM > ; 1996: Add Next, Size, and X command. Default first bucket from XAB$L_DVB.u > ;  > cr=13c > lf=105" >         .PSECT  help,noexe,nowrt > help:   .ASCID  <cr><lf>-  >y- > "       ##   read VBN ##."<cr><lf><cr><lf>- G > "       X    followed by hexadecimal number to read VBN ##."<cr><lf>-VN > "       S    followed by number to set bucket size = size to read."<cr><lf>-K > "       D    to get into the debugger. Bucket pointed to by R2."<cr><lf>-dI > "       GO   While in the Debugger to get back to the prompt."<cr><lf>-.> > "       W    Write out the bucket (back at prompt)"<cr><lf>-G > "       F    format data as bucket header for indexed file."<cr><lf>-y= > "       <CR> reads next (or first) bucket."<cr><lf><cr><lf>x >m  >         .PSECT  code,exe,nowrt >         .ENTRY  START, ^M<>. >         PUSHAL  FILENAME_SIZ! >         PUSHAQ  FILENAME_PROMPT  >         PUSHAQ  FILENAME' >         CALLS   #3, G^LIB$GET_FOREIGNMK >         MOVB    FILENAME_SIZ, FAB+FAB$B_FNS     ;Insert the filename size:F >         $OPEN   FAB=FAB                         ;Open the input fileA >         BLBC    R0, BYE                         ;See you later!r; >         CMPB    FAB+FAB$B_ORG, #FAB$C_IDX       ;Indexed?  >         BNEQ    10$t> >         MOVAL   XAB, FAB+FAB$L_XAB              ;Hook up Xab> >         $DISPLAY FAB=FAB                        ;Fill in XabA >         BLBC    R0, BYE                         ;See you later!-? >         MOVL    XAB+XAB$L_DVB, NEXT_BUCKET      ;Start bucketwF >         MOVZBL  XAB+XAB$B_DBS, BUCKET_SIZE      ;Pick up bucket size: > 10$:    $CONNECT RAB=RAB                        ;Connect= >         BLBS    R0, SET_SIZE                    ;Go for it!  >         MOVL    R0, R101A > DONE:   $CLOSE  FAB=FAB                         ;Close the fileP> >         BLBS    R10, BYE                        ;Last status >         MOVL    R10, R0a
 > BYE:    RETi >,C > SIZE:   INCL    VBN+4                           ;Skip S character  >         DECW    VBNa3 >         PUSHAL  BUCKET_SIZE                     ;n> >         PUSHAL  VBN                             ;INput againG >         CALLS   #2, G^OTS$CVT_TU_L              ;Convert from decimal  >         BLBS    R0, SET_SIZE >         PUSHAQ  CONVERT_ERROR- >         BRW     GIVE_ERROR > DONE1:  BRW     DONE > SET_SIZE:rB >         ASHL    #9, BUCKET_SIZE, R0             ;Multiply by 512F >         MOVW    R0, RAB+RAB$W_USZ               ;Set up size of read > MAIN_LOOP:> >         MOVL    RAB+RAB$L_STS, R10              ;exit statusJ >         MOVL    #VBN_LEN, VBN                   ;Init len  in descriptorJ >         MOVAL   VBN_BUF, VBN+4                  ;Init addr in descriptorP >         PUSHAQ  VBN                             ;Output LEN back in descriptor9 >         PUSHAQ  VBN_PROMPT                      ;Prompt 9 >         PUSHAQ  VBN                             ;Buffera9 >         CALLS   #3, G^LIB$GET_INPUT             ;Get it88 >         BLBC    R0, DONE1                       ;Done?C >         TSTW    VBN                             ;Default command?W >         BNEQ    10$o >         BRW     READ; > 10$:    CMPB    #^A"9", VBN_BUF                 ;Numeric?  >         BLSSU   20$r3 >         BRW     NUMBER                          ;nI > 20$:    BICB2   #32, VBN_BUF                    ;Upcase (the blunt way)h! >         CMPB    #^A"S", VBN_BUF  >         BNEQ    30$  >         BRW     SIZE! > 30$:    CMPB    #^A"W", VBN_BUFm >         BNEQ    40$h >         BRW     WRITEw! > 40$:    CMPB    #^A"E", VBN_BUFc >         BNEQ    50$s >         BRW     DONE! > 50$:    CMPB    #^A"F", VBN_BUF  >         BNEQ    60$   >         BRW     FORMAT_INDEXED! > 60$:    CMPB    #^A"D", VBN_BUF- >         BEQL    DEBUGe! >         CMPB    #^A"X", VBN_BUFn >         BEQL    HEX  >         PUSHAQ  HELP >         BRW     GIVE_ERROR >n > DEBUG:  MOVAB   BUF, R2 # >         MOVZWL  RAB+RAB$W_RSZ, R3 # >         MOVL    RAB+RAB$L_BKT, R4r >         PUSHL   #SS$_DEBUG" >         CALLS   #1, g^LIB$SIGNAL >         BRW     MAIN_LOOPr >  > NUMBER: PUSHAL  NEXT_BUCKETe> >         PUSHAL  VBN                             ;INput againG >         CALLS   #2, G^OTS$CVT_TU_L              ;Convert from decimal- >         BLBS    R0, READ >         PUSHAQ  CONVERT_ERROR  >         BRW     GIVE_ERROR >mC > HEX:    INCL    VBN+4                           ;Skip X characterB >         DECW    VBN> >         PUSHAL  NEXT_BUCKET0> >         PUSHAL  VBN                             ;INput againC >         CALLS   #2, G^OTS$CVT_TZ_L              ;Convert from hexa >         BLBS    R0, READ >         PUSHAQ  CONVERT_ERRORe >         BRW     GIVE_ERROR >V > WRITE:  $WRITE  RAB=RABf >         BLBC    R0, OOPS >         BRW     MAIN_LOOPs > : > READ:   MOVL    NEXT_BUCKET, RAB+RAB$L_BKT      ;set VBNB >         $READ   RAB=RAB                         ;Read the bucket >         BLBC    R0, OOPS >         BRW     FORMAT_OTHER >  > OOPS:   CMPL    R0,#RMS$_EOF >         BEQL    20$d >         PUSHAL  RAB+RAB$L_STVe >         PUSHAL  RAB+RAB$L_STS3 >         PUSHAL  RAB+RAB$L_BKT> >         PUSHAL  IO_ERROR& >         CALLS   #4, G^LIB$PUT_OUTPUT >         BRW     MAIN_LOOP  >t > 20$:    PUSHAL  ENDOF_ERRORe >         BRW     GIVE_ERROR >d > FORMAT_OTHER:y* >         ADDL2   BUCKET_SIZE, NEXT_BUCKET> >         PUSHL   BUF+0                           ;15     data> >         PUSHL   BUF+4                           ;14     data> >         PUSHL   BUF+8                           ;13     data> >         PUSHL   BUF+12                          ;12     data> >         PUSHL   BUF+16                          ;11     data> >         PUSHL   BUF+20                          ;10     data> >         PUSHL   BUF+24                          ;9      data> >         PUSHL   BUF+28                          ;8      data4 >         PUSHAL  BUF                             ;7@ >         PUSHL   #40                             ;6 ascii bytes< >         MOVL    #FAO_OUTBUF_L, FAO_OUTBUF_D     ;init size4 >         PUSHL   RAB+RAB$W_RSZ                   ;54 >         PUSHL   RAB+RAB$L_BKT                   ;44 >         PUSHAL  FAO_OUTBUF_D                    ;34 >         PUSHAL  FAO_OUTBUF_D                    ;24 >         PUSHAL  FAO_OTHER                       ;1  >         CALLS   #15, G^SYS$FAO >         PUSHAL  FAO_OUTBUF_D& >         CALLS   #1, g^LIB$PUT_OUTPUT > ; >         CMPB    FAB+FAB$B_ORG, #FAB$C_IDX       ;Indexed?d  >         BEQL    FORMAT_INDEXED >         BRW     MAIN_LOOPn >  > FORMAT_INDEXED:s# >         MOVL    BUF+8,NEXT_BUCKETp? >         PUSHL   BUF+13                          ;12     Flags ? >         PUSHL   BUF+12                          ;11     Levelt> >         PUSHL   BUF+1                           ;10     AreaC >         PUSHL   BUF+6                           ;9      Last/nextl? >         PUSHL   BUF+4                           ;8      InUsem# >         MOVZWL  RAB+RAB$W_USZ, R1 B >         PUSHL   BUF+8                           ;7      Next vbnD >         PUSHL   BUF-1(R1)                       ;6      Checkb-endF >         PUSHL   BUF+0                           ;5      Checkb-startD >         PUSHL   BUF+2                           ;4      Vbn Sample< >         MOVL    #FAO_OUTBUF_L, FAO_OUTBUF_D     ;init size4 >         PUSHAL  FAO_OUTBUF_D                    ;34 >         PUSHAL  FAO_OUTBUF_D                    ;24 >         PUSHAL  FAO_INDEXED                     ;1  >         CALLS   #12, G^SYS$FAO >         PUSHAL  FAO_OUTBUF_D > 
 > GIVE_ERROR:s& >         CALLS   #1, G^LIB$PUT_OUTPUT >         BRW     MAIN_LOOP  >s  >         .PSECT  data,noexe,wrt > BUF::   .BLKB   512*64Q > FAB:    $FAB    FAC = <BRO,GET,PUT>, -          ;Allow block I/O read AND write M >                 FNA = FILENAME_BUF, -           ;Address of filename stringn! >                 SHR = <UPI,PUT> A > RAB:    $RAB    FAB = FAB, -                    ;Associated FABoG >                 ROP = <BIO>, -                  ;block I/O Processing ? >                 UBF = BUF                       ;Input buffere > XAB:    $XABKEYs > 9 > CONVERT_ERROR:  .ASCID  "Error converting block number" C > IO_ERROR:       .ASCID  "Error reading VBN !XL, STS=!XL, STV=!XL"t. > ENDOF_ERROR:    .ASCID  "Beyond End Of File"3 > FILENAME_PROMPT:.ASCID  "Please enter filename: "l > NEXT_BUCKET:    .LONG   1f > BUCKET_SIZE:    .LONG   1nB > FILENAME:       .LONG   80,FILENAME_BUF ;input buffer descriptorF > FILENAME_SIZ:   .WORD   0               ;Receives length of filename > FILENAME_BUF:   .BLKB   80O > VBN_PROMPT:     .ASCID  "(##, X##, S##, Debug, Format, Write, Exit) Option: "g > VBN_LEN = 20 > VBN:            .BLKL   2i! > VBN_BUF:        .BLKB   VBN_LENrF > FAO_INDEXED:    .ASCID  "Checks=/!XW/!XB/!XB/, Next=!XL, Use=!XW, "-> >                         "Id=!XW, Area=!XB, Lvl=!XB, Flg=!XB"J > FAO_OTHER:      .ASCID  "VBN=!XL, RSZ=!XW, Data: <!AF> !/ Dump: !8(9XL)" > FAO_OUTBUF_L =  200r& > FAO_OUTBUF_A:   .BLKB   FAO_OUTBUF_L& > FAO_OUTBUF_D:   .LONG   FAO_OUTBUF_L' >                 .ADDRESS FAO_OUTBUF_An >         .END    STARTf  & --------------ABC54902C11C5D1E9318FFB3- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;n  name="maustin.vcf"  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bite, Content-Description: Card for Michael Austin  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="maustin.vcf"e   begin:vcard  n:Austin;Michael - tel;work:704-947-1089  x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Michael Austin, IncS
 adr:;;;;;; version:2.1u+ email;internet:michaelaustininc@hotmail.com  title:President0 x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Michael E. Austin	 end:vcardl  ( --------------ABC54902C11C5D1E9318FFB3--   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 17:06:49 -0400 / From: "Joe H. Gallagher" <dtrwiz@ix.netcom.com>a6 Subject: Re: Running old layered products on newer VMS) Message-ID: <38F636E0.3CC2@ix.netcom.com>    Barry Treahy wrote:t > G > What is the furthest release of VMS that anyone has attempted to run:a >     DBMS 4.3-1 >     TDMS 1.8Aa
 >     CDD 5.0h >     RTO RDB 4.0A > @ > I know that these are qualified for VMS 5.5-2 and probably notE > technically supported beyond that, but who has been adventurous and J > attempted it and what trials did you experience?  Did you get it running/ > on VMS 6?  VMS 7? or did it blow up and fail?O >  > TIAn >  > Barry Treahy  H Older layered products which are "software only" tend to keeping workingE on later versions of the operating system.  I am running CDD 5.0, FMSi 2.3,F old MASS-11, etc (software at least 7 years old) on a VAX V7.2 system  without problems.e  A Where you get into difficulty is with layered projects which dealw@ directly with the hardware -- drivers and the like.  Drivers andC such are linked against a particular major version of the operating:B system.  If you upgrade VMS, you have to upgrade any product whichE has things like device drivers.  For example, you can't run PathworksED Macintosh V1.1 (for VMS 5.5-2h4) on a VMS V7.2 system -- the driversA won't work.  You need to upgrade to Pathworks Macintosh V1.3a(?).   D I'll take a small bet that all your list of software would work justB fine on the latest version of VMS.  And I'd also bet that it would2 work on V8,x, V9.X, etc when that/those comes out.  E Of course, the other way around is not true.  I wouldn't bet anything.D about getting DATATRIEVE V7.2 working on a VMS 5.5-2H4 system or any system older than VMS V7.2.s  
 Joe Gallaghern   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 23:25:23 GMT . From: Michael Austin <maustin@nc.prestige.net>6 Subject: Re: Running old layered products on newer VMS/ Message-ID: <38F6633F.F636ED56@nc.prestige.net>Y  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------CE293857A2DCB4E5A94B12BC* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitc  I I would look at upgrading Rdb to the latest.  The ease of doing this will L depend upon how you used SQL .   Or whether or not you used RDO.  I have hadE clients who used RDO that made no changes to the code when upgrading.d? Earlier  versions of DBMS have also been known to run on VMS7.xw   Michael Austin Oracle Rdb DBA Consultant      Barry Treahy wrote:l  G > What is the furthest release of VMS that anyone has attempted to run:g >     DBMS 4.3-1 >     TDMS 1.8A 
 >     CDD 5.0a >     RTO RDB 4.0A > @ > I know that these are qualified for VMS 5.5-2 and probably notE > technically supported beyond that, but who has been adventurous andqJ > attempted it and what trials did you experience?  Did you get it running/ > on VMS 6?  VMS 7? or did it blow up and fail?M >i > TIAe >p > Barry Treahy  & --------------CE293857A2DCB4E5A94B12BC- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;i  name="maustin.vcf"> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bith, Content-Description: Card for Michael Austin  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="maustin.vcf"    begin:vcard  n:Austin;Michael   tel;work:704-947-1089  x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Michael Austin, Inc 
 adr:;;;;;; version:2.1p+ email;internet:michaelaustininc@hotmail.com  title:Presidento x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Michael E. Austin	 end:vcard   ( --------------CE293857A2DCB4E5A94B12BC--   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 20:06:14 GMT - From: Dave Pickles <davep@nugate.demon.co.uk>v* Subject: Re: Scheduler & PSDC alternatives* Message-ID: <8d4vhg$172$1@cyw.uklinux.net>   Graham HAZLEGREAVES wrote:  H > Due to a major change within this company, the supplier (no prizes forH > guessing who!!) want to charge us a huge (6 figure) sum to re-license,L > unlike other suppliers who've just said it doesn't change things (in termsM > of licensing costs etc.).  We did think about paying (I think it lasted for J > about .000000000001 of a second) before deciding - NO (I daren't put the7 > exact words that were said as it might be libelous!).s  I "Computing" magazine in the UK have been running a campaign for some timeaJ against this practice of "stiffing". Have you considered informing them of, your experience (or perhaps threatening to)?   Dave Pickles   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 13:59:32 -0700t/ From: Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com>n* Subject: RE: Scheduler & PSDC alternativesM Message-ID: <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213019AED89@seantexch.unitedad.com>    Graham, I    The scheduler I have used that is at good price and does all I need isD JSS0	 It is by e ICAM TECHNOLOGY CORPORATION  3201 Crestmoor Drive w San Bruno, CA 94066  (415) 872-3217 g   Hope this helps  If you talk to Ted 4  Tell him Terry Marosites says Hi           -----Original Message-----6 From: Graham HAZLEGREAVES [mailto:qg38@dial.pipex.com]' Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 3:26 PMt To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com & Subject: Scheduler & PSDC alternatives  L The company I'm currently working for (I've actually been contracting on andH off with them since '92) has 80+ Vax and Alpha systems dotted around UK.K These run various products but the one's we need to find an alternative fork are:  %     PCM  (Polycenter Console Manager)e&     PSDC  (Performance Data Collector)      PSPA   (Performance Advisor)
     Schedulert  F Due to a major change within this company, the supplier (no prizes forF guessing who!!) want to charge us a huge (6 figure) sum to re-license,J unlike other suppliers who've just said it doesn't change things (in termsK of licensing costs etc.).  We did think about paying (I think it lasted foreH about .000000000001 of a second) before deciding - NO (I daren't put the5 exact words that were said as it might be libelous!).r  J We've already decided on a replacement for PCM - ROBO Central from Heroix.B We're already using it at one site plus we have plenty of in houseH experience of ROBOMON.  Another minor point is that myself and one of myB colleagues know the developer from our Digital days (we all worked
 together).  L With regards to the other 3 we're having a bit of a problem in that we don't8 seem to be able to find anything that does what they do.  L On a couple of our newer systems we've installed KRONOS as a replacement forD Scheduler.  No disrespect to the developers, but it isn't as good asG Scheduler and we've had to make extensive mods to some of our Scheduler8 jobs.   K As regards PSDC and PSPA, so far we haven't found anything that can provide H us with the same functionality.  We might not have looked hard enough, I, admit, but we did only start this yesterday.  H So what am I after?   Has anybody been in a similar situation and had toH replace Scheduler, PSDC and PSPA.  If so, what did you use?   How did itD compare?  What's the support like - in particular could they provideL help/utilities to move from one to the other?   In the case of Scheduler, ifJ anybody has replaced it, were they able to take your existing database andC import/convert/use it for their product or did you have to re-entere everything.>  5 My apologies if this has been asked/discussed before.<   Here's hoping!   Cheers.P   Graham   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 23:08:15 +0100 1 From: "Graham HAZLEGREAVES" <qg38@dial.pipex.com>Q* Subject: Re: Scheduler & PSDC alternatives) Message-ID: <8d5gkf$li9$1@lure.pipex.net>A  J Dave:  I'd totally forgotten about this campaign by Computing.  Thanks forH reminding me.  I'll pass it on to my management.  The company also has aB large Amdahl and we're being "stiffed" on that too, so they may be interested.   H All:  Thanks to those of you who've replied/emailed me.  At least we nowF know there are other similar products out there!  Now the fun starts -J talking to salesmen (lunch meetings, hmmmmm!), testing, quotes, convincingK "the powers that be" that we do need a replacement etc.  Ah, the life of an  OpenVMS System Mangler!B  K If anybody knows of any product not mentioned here then either post a reply  or mail me.C   Cheers.    Graham    : "Dave Pickles" <davep@nugate.demon.co.uk> wrote in message$ news:8d4vhg$172$1@cyw.uklinux.net... > Graham HAZLEGREAVES wrote: >tJ > > Due to a major change within this company, the supplier (no prizes forJ > > guessing who!!) want to charge us a huge (6 figure) sum to re-license,H > > unlike other suppliers who've just said it doesn't change things (in terms K > > of licensing costs etc.).  We did think about paying (I think it lasted  for L > > about .000000000001 of a second) before deciding - NO (I daren't put the9 > > exact words that were said as it might be libelous!).Q >OK > "Computing" magazine in the UK have been running a campaign for some timeEL > against this practice of "stiffing". Have you considered informing them of. > your experience (or perhaps threatening to)? >  > Dave Pickles   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:53:02 GMTs From: itjck01@my-deja.comN* Subject: Re: Scheduler & PSDC alternatives) Message-ID: <8d5j47$i0d$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   ) In article <8d5gkf$li9$1@lure.pipex.net>, 7   "Graham HAZLEGREAVES" <hazlegg@dial.pipex.com> wrote:k@ > Dave:  I'd totally forgotten about this campaign by Computing.
 Thanks forD > reminding me.  I'll pass it on to my management.  The company also has a3D > large Amdahl and we're being "stiffed" on that too, so they may be
 > interested.  > F > All:  Thanks to those of you who've replied/emailed me.  At least we now H > know there are other similar products out there!  Now the fun starts -A > talking to salesmen (lunch meetings, hmmmmm!), testing, quotes, 
 convincingG > "the powers that be" that we do need a replacement etc.  Ah, the life  of an  > OpenVMS System Mangler!  > G > If anybody knows of any product not mentioned here then either post a  reply 
 > or mail me.  >"	 > Cheers.m >  > Graham > < > "Dave Pickles" <davep@nugate.demon.co.uk> wrote in message& > news:8d4vhg$172$1@cyw.uklinux.net... > > Graham HAZLEGREAVES wrote: > >"A > > > Due to a major change within this company, the supplier (noX
 prizes forD > > > guessing who!!) want to charge us a huge (6 figure) sum to re- license,F > > > unlike other suppliers who've just said it doesn't change things (inI > terms F > > > of licensing costs etc.).  We did think about paying (I think it lasted > for F > > > about .000000000001 of a second) before deciding - NO (I daren't put theN; > > > exact words that were said as it might be libelous!).B > >eC > > "Computing" magazine in the UK have been running a campaign for 	 some time F > > against this practice of "stiffing". Have you considered informing them ofE0 > > your experience (or perhaps threatening to)? > >  > > Dave Pickles >: >   A How about ISE Schedule, which is a Compaq Alliance member.  Their > webpage is www.i-s-e.com.  We have found it to be fairly good.  
 John Koska    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.V   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:29:50 -0700 ! From: Koloth <koloth@tmisnet.com> * Subject: Re: Scheduler & PSDC alternatives+ Message-ID: <38F6ACCD.D4BC0517@tmisnet.com>   M Compaq has a product called Capacity Planner and PAWS.  We looked at it for aNJ replacement for DECps.  It may me more than you wnat but the collector andG reducer did a lot of DECps DC and DECps PA did.  And the cost was less.   P Also these guys work near the OpenVMS guys so that they can get good information) when needing information on O/S questionsA   Regards>   Cass Witkowski SAIC       Terry Marosites wrote:  	 > Graham,TK >    The scheduler I have used that is at good price and does all I need is  > JSS 
 > It is by > ICAM TECHNOLOGY CORPORATION  > 3201 Crestmoor Drive > San Bruno, CA 94066H > (415) 872-3217 >  > Hope this helps  > If you talk to Ted" > Tell him Terry Marosites says Hi >  > -----Original Message-----8 > From: Graham HAZLEGREAVES [mailto:qg38@dial.pipex.com]) > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 3:26 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com6( > Subject: Scheduler & PSDC alternatives > N > The company I'm currently working for (I've actually been contracting on andJ > off with them since '92) has 80+ Vax and Alpha systems dotted around UK.M > These run various products but the one's we need to find an alternative for  > are: > ' >     PCM  (Polycenter Console Manager) ( >     PSDC  (Performance Data Collector)" >     PSPA   (Performance Advisor) >     Scheduler  >+H > Due to a major change within this company, the supplier (no prizes forH > guessing who!!) want to charge us a huge (6 figure) sum to re-license,L > unlike other suppliers who've just said it doesn't change things (in termsM > of licensing costs etc.).  We did think about paying (I think it lasted forUJ > about .000000000001 of a second) before deciding - NO (I daren't put the7 > exact words that were said as it might be libelous!).O >TL > We've already decided on a replacement for PCM - ROBO Central from Heroix.D > We're already using it at one site plus we have plenty of in houseJ > experience of ROBOMON.  Another minor point is that myself and one of myD > colleagues know the developer from our Digital days (we all worked > together). >HN > With regards to the other 3 we're having a bit of a problem in that we don't: > seem to be able to find anything that does what they do. >+N > On a couple of our newer systems we've installed KRONOS as a replacement forF > Scheduler.  No disrespect to the developers, but it isn't as good asI > Scheduler and we've had to make extensive mods to some of our Scheduler  > jobs.U > M > As regards PSDC and PSPA, so far we haven't found anything that can provideTJ > us with the same functionality.  We might not have looked hard enough, I. > admit, but we did only start this yesterday. > J > So what am I after?   Has anybody been in a similar situation and had toJ > replace Scheduler, PSDC and PSPA.  If so, what did you use?   How did itF > compare?  What's the support like - in particular could they provideN > help/utilities to move from one to the other?   In the case of Scheduler, ifL > anybody has replaced it, were they able to take your existing database andE > import/convert/use it for their product or did you have to re-enter 
 > everything.  >H7 > My apologies if this has been asked/discussed before.  >  > Here's hoping! > 	 > Cheers.  >  > Graham   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:35:33 -0700 ! From: Shane.F.Smith@healthnet.come* Subject: Shock, horror! An OpenVMS advert!8 Message-ID: <882568C0.007C1F57.00@WHDOM99.HEALTHNET.COM>  . From: Shane F Smith@FHS on 04/13/2000 03:35 PM     To:   Info-Vax@mvb.saic.comy cc:n+ Subject:  Shock, horror! An OpenVMS advert!   J I have just received an unusual package: A 9" tall, 33" wide Compaq posterK proclaiming "Compaq OpenVMS on AlphaServer Systems" across the top, "CompaqAL Non-Stop Computing" bottom left, and "Enterprise Computing in Motion" bottom right.  O As for what the picture is, your guess is as good as mine. It's all motion blurnI and strong colours. Quite eye-catching though. Some of my colleagues have ? received it too, but no management types that I know of as yet.=  M Great. At last! Now let's hope it's the beginning of something. Now, where to  put it.....       H  #####   ---------------------------------------------------------------I #-O-O-# | Shane underbar S on pacbell dot net. Spam to abuse@127.0.0.1  |_H #  L  #  ---------------------------------------------------------------D  #===#   Don't blame HealthNet for anything I say. They're innocent.H   ###    OpenVMS: The operating system God runs the Earth simulation on.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 23:23:49 GMTa2 From: kilgallen@eisner.decus.org (Larry Kilgallen). Subject: Re: Shock, horror! An OpenVMS advert!' Message-ID: <2000Apr13.192349.1@eisner>n  \ In article <882568C0.007C1F57.00@WHDOM99.HEALTHNET.COM>, Shane.F.Smith@healthnet.com writes:  L > I have just received an unusual package: A 9" tall, 33" wide Compaq posterM > proclaiming "Compaq OpenVMS on AlphaServer Systems" across the top, "Compaq4N > Non-Stop Computing" bottom left, and "Enterprise Computing in Motion" bottom > right. > Q > As for what the picture is, your guess is as good as mine. It's all motion bluroK > and strong colours. Quite eye-catching though. Some of my colleagues haverA > received it too, but no management types that I know of as yet.  > O > Great. At last! Now let's hope it's the beginning of something. Now, where toh
 > put it.....e  B How about back into the package, to readdress it to management :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:59:06 -0700 3 From: "Wolf, Gerald J" <Gerald.Wolf@F22.Boeing.com> 1 Subject: So what is better VAX4000 VLC or a 3100?eQ Message-ID: <C16B19ADF2A3D111882C00805FE6C65004FF3647@xch-f22bh-01.ds.boeing.com>n  J My VAX4000 VLC noise is driving me nuts.   A person who has equipment saysH he can supply me with a VAX 3100 right now.  I boot off of a server, andA basically use DecWindows mail and DecTerm.  Any comments would ber appreciated.  
 Thank You,
 Gerry Wolf Gerald (Gerry) Wolfa   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 20:16:47 GMTu From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>5 Subject: Re: So what is better VAX4000 VLC or a 3100?a' Message-ID: <38F62B36.D754CE14@home.nl>M   "Wolf, Gerald J" wrote:s > L > My VAX4000 VLC noise is driving me nuts.   A person who has equipment saysJ > he can supply me with a VAX 3100 right now.  I boot off of a server, andC > basically use DecWindows mail and DecTerm.  Any comments would be  > appreciated.  F What kind of 3100 ? And did you try to find a new and more quiet fan ?A Try a Papst fan, they are whisper quiet compared with those cheapo taiwanese jet engines.% http://www.papst.de/english/home.html2          >  > Thank You, > Gerry Wolf > Gerald (Gerry) Wolfh   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 23:19:45 +0200>+ From: Arne Bergseth <Arne.Bergseth@dnv.com>n5 Subject: Re: So what is better VAX4000 VLC or a 3100?n' Message-ID: <38F639F1.A0DBBB52@dnv.com>I   "Wolf, Gerald J" wrote:E  L > My VAX4000 VLC noise is driving me nuts.   A person who has equipment saysJ > he can supply me with a VAX 3100 right now.  I boot off of a server, andC > basically use DecWindows mail and DecTerm.  Any comments would ber > appreciated. >   . Depends upon what model of VAX3100 you can getJ Your VAX 4000 VLC   (model 30) should have a cpu cycle time of 40 ns, Spec
 6.2,  Vup 6.0V-    VAX 3100 model 30     90 ns CPU,   Vup 2.8t-    VAX 3100 model 38     60 ns CPU,   Vup 3.8 -    VAX 3100 model 76     28 ns CPU,   Vup 7.6eI    The smaller models of VAX 3100 had 1024 by 864 pixel video. Colour wasD optional( There are also other models of VAX 3100,  -    VAX 4000 model 60    18 ns CPU,    Vup 12. ,    VAX 4000 model 90    14 ns CPU,    Vup 40' There are also other models of VAX 4000e   But vhy is your VLC noisy??iB There is two fans in the power supply box, are they breaking down?L And perhaps one or two disks inside the box, are they on the way to a crash?M I have a VAX 4000 M60 at home, and it is rather quiet, it is the same kind of7 plastic box asH the VLC I think. A VAX 3100 which has a steel box usually will make more sound.   Cheers, 
 Arne Bergseth    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 11:01:07 -0700h# From: Mickey Stein <yekkim@cts.com>:" Subject: Re: So who will buy VMS ?' Message-ID: <38F60B63.D97CBEEB@cts.com>l  O Well shoot: If you want to save money, just download the alpha version of linuxCP and run it (and that's coming from a fan of linux). Also forget the million buckI machine and just run it on a garden variety pc. Having dealt with factorylL automation applications & OpenVMS/VAX/ALPHA systems for a long time and alsoO having dealt with many attempts to switch these applications over to other OS'srN like UNIX varients and even that monster called NT(always at the whim of a newJ manager..) , it's pretty clear why it's worth the extra money for OpenVMS.  O *It works, and for a company where downtime would mean a couple million/day anduJ basically .. going out of business, the 14% kind of pales in significance.P Anyway: I work with various customers who will buy VMS as long as it can be had.         Bob Kaplow wrote:a  N > I was just handed two quotes for a large production Alpha server. The quotesK > are identical in every way, except one box is configured with VMS and the I > other is configured with Tru64Unix. The VMS system is list priced aboutrN > $100,000 higher than the Tru64Unix box WITH EXACTLY the same hardware; about > a 14% upcharge overall.3 >AM > Even the hardware installation and warranty uplift to 24x7 is higher on thes > VMS box, by about $2500! > N > This is just absurd. We really need to see price parity at least between VMSF > and Unix on the same hardware. It makes it pretty clear EXACTLY what& > Compaq's intentions are towards VMS. >h >         Bob Kaplow >iN > SPAM:   spamrecycle@ChooseYourmail.com  uce@ftc.gov     postmaster@127.0.0.1   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 18:17:49 GMTb* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)" Subject: Re: So who will buy VMS ?' Message-ID: <2000Apr13.141749.1@eisner>n  [ In article <8d503v$30f$1@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:aH > In article <2000Apr13.122515.1@eisner>, kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org (Bob > Kaplow) writes:  >   O >> I was just handed two quotes for a large production Alpha server. The quotesiL >> are identical in every way, except one box is configured with VMS and theJ >> other is configured with Tru64Unix. The VMS system is list priced aboutO >> $100,000 higher than the Tru64Unix box WITH EXACTLY the same hardware; aboutn >> a 14% upcharge overall. > I > Well, some folks would say that if you are spending almost a million onfG > a box, then you must be doing something worth spending that extra 14%  > on!  > O >> This is just absurd. We really need to see price parity at least between VMStG >> and Unix on the same hardware. It makes it pretty clear EXACTLY whato' >> Compaq's intentions are towards VMS.e > G > Unless one assumes that VMS is a) better and b) better things should mF > cost more.  I don't think that an Audi A8 costs more than a VW Polo < > since VW/Audi want people to migrate from A8 to Polo.  :-| > K > Your argument assumes that people don't run VMS because it's expensive.  eG > OK, it's a chicken-and-egg thing, and cheap, fast unix is what moved  G > many people away from VMS (and usually away from DEC as well), but I kG > think that most people today don't use VMS because it is not trendy;  I > it's like admitting you listen to the Bay City Rollers when Puff Daddy fB > is in the charts!  Or perhaps applications.  Neither problem is B > addressed in anything but the long-term by decreasing the price. > J > Maybe it's no accident that it's expensive and it's good, as Compaq can # > afford to pay good VMS engineers.o > C > What about other unix?  Is Tru64 really that much better than theuI > others?  If not, why not go with another unix?  THEN you could write tobJ > Compaq and say `I would have spent $800,000 on a Compaq product, runningJ > VMS, to be too expensive compared to $700,000 for a unix machine.  Thus,K > I will go with unix.  But having made that step, I see {IBM|SUN|HP|SGI}  !J > offers me a box for $600,000, so I'm going with that', which would make I > it clear that Compaq is losing A LOT of money if there are more people  K > like you (also considering that presumably future purchases will be from pJ > the competition as well).  Unless, of course, the extra money they make K > on folks who buy VMS even if it is more expensive more than makes up for o > it.     ; 	You are missing a very valid point.  What Bob should do ise; 	order it for Tru64 and wipe it out and load VMS on it with/B 	his legitimately transferred VMS licenses.  Why pay $100000 more?  ? 	In fact.... this gives me an idea.  I too will request a Tru64gE 	quote so I can get the Tru64 discount when I do my next upgrade :-).d   	Does that make it clearer???e   				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 18:14:35 GMTe, From: kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org (Bob Kaplow)" Subject: Re: So who will buy VMS ?' Message-ID: <2000Apr13.141435.1@eisner>n  [ In article <8d503v$30f$1@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:mC > What about other unix?  Is Tru64 really that much better than thesI > others?  If not, why not go with another unix?  THEN you could write toiJ > Compaq and say `I would have spent $800,000 on a Compaq product, runningJ > VMS, to be too expensive compared to $700,000 for a unix machine.  Thus,K > I will go with unix.  But having made that step, I see {IBM|SUN|HP|SGI}  tJ > offers me a box for $600,000, so I'm going with that', which would make I > it clear that Compaq is losing A LOT of money if there are more people gK > like you (also considering that presumably future purchases will be from oJ > the competition as well).  Unless, of course, the extra money they make K > on folks who buy VMS even if it is more expensive more than makes up for y > it.o  K Well, once we convert from VMS to UNIX, I guess it really doesn't matter to.E us if it's AIX, Solaris, HPUX, or whatever. One major application hasLI already gone from VMS to HPUX. Another is on HPUX because the vendor onlyaE supports HPUX and AIX. Another is on Solaris because that vendor onlys supports SUN and AIX..  = Compaq just doesn't understand that. And probably never will.e   	Bob Kaplow	  E SPAM:	spamrecycle@ChooseYourmail.com	uce@ftc.gov	postmaster@127.0.0.1    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 12:00:24 -0700u# From: Mickey Stein <yekkim@cts.com> " Subject: Re: So who will buy VMS ?' Message-ID: <38F61948.9A804057@cts.com>g   Rob,] Good point, but what about the associated costs of DEC's "not-insignificant" license-transfern_ fees? Last cluster I configured (from quote to build) was all legitimately transferred licensesr[ , yet cost quite a sum for those types of licenses. It might knock the amount down from 14%tW over TRU but maybe only to 10%. I suppose that depends on the platform change and other" factors.
       Mick  S (or am I missing the point? that Tru64 will pretty well pay for the transfer fees?)t     Rob Young wrote:  ] > In article <8d503v$30f$1@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:nJ > > In article <2000Apr13.122515.1@eisner>, kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org (Bob > > Kaplow) writes:d > >o > Q > >> I was just handed two quotes for a large production Alpha server. The quotes N > >> are identical in every way, except one box is configured with VMS and theL > >> other is configured with Tru64Unix. The VMS system is list priced aboutQ > >> $100,000 higher than the Tru64Unix box WITH EXACTLY the same hardware; aboutp > >> a 14% upcharge overall. > >?K > > Well, some folks would say that if you are spending almost a million on I > > a box, then you must be doing something worth spending that extra 14%  > > on!o > > Q > >> This is just absurd. We really need to see price parity at least between VMS-I > >> and Unix on the same hardware. It makes it pretty clear EXACTLY whato) > >> Compaq's intentions are towards VMS.d > >&H > > Unless one assumes that VMS is a) better and b) better things shouldG > > cost more.  I don't think that an Audi A8 costs more than a VW Polo > > > since VW/Audi want people to migrate from A8 to Polo.  :-| > >rK > > Your argument assumes that people don't run VMS because it's expensive. H > > OK, it's a chicken-and-egg thing, and cheap, fast unix is what movedH > > many people away from VMS (and usually away from DEC as well), but IH > > think that most people today don't use VMS because it is not trendy;J > > it's like admitting you listen to the Bay City Rollers when Puff DaddyC > > is in the charts!  Or perhaps applications.  Neither problem isaD > > addressed in anything but the long-term by decreasing the price. > > K > > Maybe it's no accident that it's expensive and it's good, as Compaq can % > > afford to pay good VMS engineers.8 > >.E > > What about other unix?  Is Tru64 really that much better than theMK > > others?  If not, why not go with another unix?  THEN you could write to L > > Compaq and say `I would have spent $800,000 on a Compaq product, runningL > > VMS, to be too expensive compared to $700,000 for a unix machine.  Thus,K > > I will go with unix.  But having made that step, I see {IBM|SUN|HP|SGI} K > > offers me a box for $600,000, so I'm going with that', which would make)J > > it clear that Compaq is losing A LOT of money if there are more peopleL > > like you (also considering that presumably future purchases will be fromK > > the competition as well).  Unless, of course, the extra money they makesL > > on folks who buy VMS even if it is more expensive more than makes up for > > it.i >hD >         You are missing a very valid point.  What Bob should do isD >         order it for Tru64 and wipe it out and load VMS on it withK >         his legitimately transferred VMS licenses.  Why pay $100000 more?e >fH >         In fact.... this gives me an idea.  I too will request a Tru64N >         quote so I can get the Tru64 discount when I do my next upgrade :-). >a& >         Does that make it clearer??? >h% >                                 Robl   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Apr 2000 19:09:18 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)" Subject: Re: So who will buy VMS ?. Message-ID: <8d560u$51q$1@info.service.rug.nl>  F In article <2000Apr13.141435.1@eisner>, kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org (Bob Kaplow) writes:   ] > In article <8d503v$30f$1@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:uE > > What about other unix?  Is Tru64 really that much better than the'K > > others?  If not, why not go with another unix?  THEN you could write tohL > > Compaq and say `I would have spent $800,000 on a Compaq product, runningL > > VMS, to be too expensive compared to $700,000 for a unix machine.  Thus,M > > I will go with unix.  But having made that step, I see {IBM|SUN|HP|SGI}  tL > > offers me a box for $600,000, so I'm going with that', which would make K > > it clear that Compaq is losing A LOT of money if there are more people  M > > like you (also considering that presumably future purchases will be from mL > > the competition as well).  Unless, of course, the extra money they make M > > on folks who buy VMS even if it is more expensive more than makes up for s > > it.  > M > Well, once we convert from VMS to UNIX, I guess it really doesn't matter to G > us if it's AIX, Solaris, HPUX, or whatever. One major application has K > already gone from VMS to HPUX. Another is on HPUX because the vendor onlyEG > supports HPUX and AIX. Another is on Solaris because that vendor onlyV > supports SUN and AIX.u  H My point exactly.  I can understand Compaq pricing VMS higher than unix.F You get what you pay for.  A "legacy automobile" like a Mercedes costsE more than a Korean compact.  I don't know what price of VMS optimises ( their profits, long, short or mid-term.   A What I don't understand is encouraging VMS customers, directly orsH indirectly, to move from VMS to unix/NT/whatever.  Fortunately, the days> of "migrate away from VMS" are gone.  I've had some experienceG (fortunately, not as much as with VMS) with various flavours of unix.  eB My personal rating is Digital/AIX, HPUX, IRIX, Linux, Sun but the E differences are minor.  Especially when some people are attracted to -I unix in the first place for (among other reasons) the fact that they are  B not tied to a single vendor (whatever this means in practice, and H despite the irony of the "VMS is proprietary and thus bad" folks now, a E few years later, having moved away from VMS, now moving to Microsoft iI stuff, which is quite proprietary), it seems obvious that a move to unix  G probably, at least in the long run, means a move away from Compaq.  NT o> is even worse, since they don't own the OS themselves.  I can H understanding selling linux or even Microsoft machines to sell hardware H (obviously, no major profits to Compaq for selling the OS here), but if G we're talking about the same hardware, then a VMS sale does not mean a pG loss here---it's a gain, because the customer will probably stick with l Compaq in the future.m   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 19:29:20 GMTr* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)" Subject: Re: So who will buy VMS ?' Message-ID: <2000Apr13.152920.1@eisner>h   Mickey,e  ; 	Yes there are issues here but if you have VMS departmental @ 	licenses and are going to a departmental machine (regardless of> 	how you acquire it) the licenses transfer.  There are fees toA 	go from VAX to Alpha, don't have any numbers or even recall what-B 	they were last time I went VAX to Alpha Enterprise to Enterprise.  ? 	I'm sure there are artificial barriers in place to keep people09 	from buying Linux boxes and transferring licenses to it.C  C 	But what we see in this example is they are quoting both platformsv? 	and there is an artificial VMS penalty in place.  I'm not surew< 	why and yes there may not be a way around it.  My point was2 	more tongue-in-cheek just to highlight the issue.   				Robp  M In article <38F61948.9A804057@cts.com>, Mickey Stein <yekkim@cts.com> writes:- > Rob,_ > Good point, but what about the associated costs of DEC's "not-insignificant" license-transferia > fees? Last cluster I configured (from quote to build) was all legitimately transferred licensese] > , yet cost quite a sum for those types of licenses. It might knock the amount down from 14%sY > over TRU but maybe only to 10%. I suppose that depends on the platform change and others
 > factors. >       Mick > U > (or am I missing the point? that Tru64 will pretty well pay for the transfer fees?)o >  >  > Rob Young wrote: > ^ >> In article <8d503v$30f$1@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:K >> > In article <2000Apr13.122515.1@eisner>, kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org (Bob) >> > Kaplow) writes: >> > >>R >> >> I was just handed two quotes for a large production Alpha server. The quotesO >> >> are identical in every way, except one box is configured with VMS and the M >> >> other is configured with Tru64Unix. The VMS system is list priced aboutiR >> >> $100,000 higher than the Tru64Unix box WITH EXACTLY the same hardware; about >> >> a 14% upcharge overall.  >> >L >> > Well, some folks would say that if you are spending almost a million onJ >> > a box, then you must be doing something worth spending that extra 14% >> > on! >> >R >> >> This is just absurd. We really need to see price parity at least between VMSJ >> >> and Unix on the same hardware. It makes it pretty clear EXACTLY what* >> >> Compaq's intentions are towards VMS. >> >I >> > Unless one assumes that VMS is a) better and b) better things shoulduH >> > cost more.  I don't think that an Audi A8 costs more than a VW Polo? >> > since VW/Audi want people to migrate from A8 to Polo.  :-|  >> >L >> > Your argument assumes that people don't run VMS because it's expensive.I >> > OK, it's a chicken-and-egg thing, and cheap, fast unix is what movednI >> > many people away from VMS (and usually away from DEC as well), but I I >> > think that most people today don't use VMS because it is not trendy;oK >> > it's like admitting you listen to the Bay City Rollers when Puff Daddy D >> > is in the charts!  Or perhaps applications.  Neither problem isE >> > addressed in anything but the long-term by decreasing the price.S >> >L >> > Maybe it's no accident that it's expensive and it's good, as Compaq can& >> > afford to pay good VMS engineers. >> >F >> > What about other unix?  Is Tru64 really that much better than theL >> > others?  If not, why not go with another unix?  THEN you could write toM >> > Compaq and say `I would have spent $800,000 on a Compaq product, runningiM >> > VMS, to be too expensive compared to $700,000 for a unix machine.  Thus, L >> > I will go with unix.  But having made that step, I see {IBM|SUN|HP|SGI}L >> > offers me a box for $600,000, so I'm going with that', which would makeK >> > it clear that Compaq is losing A LOT of money if there are more peopleaM >> > like you (also considering that presumably future purchases will be from L >> > the competition as well).  Unless, of course, the extra money they makeM >> > on folks who buy VMS even if it is more expensive more than makes up foro >> > it. >>E >>         You are missing a very valid point.  What Bob should do isrE >>         order it for Tru64 and wipe it out and load VMS on it withdL >>         his legitimately transferred VMS licenses.  Why pay $100000 more? >>I >>         In fact.... this gives me an idea.  I too will request a Tru64eO >>         quote so I can get the Tru64 discount when I do my next upgrade :-).n >>' >>         Does that make it clearer???s >>& >>                                 Rob >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 20:40:50 GMTn* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)" Subject: Re: So who will buy VMS ?' Message-ID: <2000Apr13.164050.1@eisner>   V In article <2000Apr13.122515.1@eisner>, kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org (Bob Kaplow) writes:N > I was just handed two quotes for a large production Alpha server. The quotesK > are identical in every way, except one box is configured with VMS and theeI > other is configured with Tru64Unix. The VMS system is list priced aboutvN > $100,000 higher than the Tru64Unix box WITH EXACTLY the same hardware; about > a 14% upcharge overall.w > M > Even the hardware installation and warranty uplift to 24x7 is higher on the  > VMS box, by about $2500! > N > This is just absurd. We really need to see price parity at least between VMSF > and Unix on the same hardware. It makes it pretty clear EXACTLY what& > Compaq's intentions are towards VMS. >    Bob,> 	Could you clarify this a bit.  Are the actual hardware prices= 	different OR did the total system cost come out more due to s> 	VMS issues (i.e. licensing, clustering, etc.).  And if so, ifA 	possible would license trade-ins help (assuming for a second you  	had old licenses to trade-in).c  
 			Thanks,   				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 17:49:37 -0400a' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>S" Subject: Re: So who will buy VMS ?( Message-ID: <8d5f99$goj$1@pyrite.mv.net>  7 Bob Kaplow <kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org> wrote in messaget! news:2000Apr13.141435.1@eisner...tD > In article <8d503v$30f$1@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:E > > What about other unix?  Is Tru64 really that much better than theaK > > others?  If not, why not go with another unix?  THEN you could write torL > > Compaq and say `I would have spent $800,000 on a Compaq product, runningL > > VMS, to be too expensive compared to $700,000 for a unix machine.  Thus,K > > I will go with unix.  But having made that step, I see {IBM|SUN|HP|SGI}oK > > offers me a box for $600,000, so I'm going with that', which would make J > > it clear that Compaq is losing A LOT of money if there are more peopleL > > like you (also considering that presumably future purchases will be fromK > > the competition as well).  Unless, of course, the extra money they makehL > > on folks who buy VMS even if it is more expensive more than makes up for > > it.C >aJ > Well, once we convert from VMS to UNIX, I guess it really doesn't matter toG > us if it's AIX, Solaris, HPUX, or whatever. One major application has{K > already gone from VMS to HPUX. Another is on HPUX because the vendor onlywG > supports HPUX and AIX. Another is on Solaris because that vendor onlye > supports SUN and AIX.e >u? > Compaq just doesn't understand that. And probably never will.p  J So far, nothing has been said that suggests that Compaq doesn't understand the situation perfectly well.i  I While there's obviously a continuum between the perception by some peoplevI that VMS offers no particular advantages over the various Unixes save foruH the pain of converting the VMS system they already have to a Unix systemK they'll have to set up and move everything to, and the perception by otherssK that VMS offers unique advantages over Unix and they'll only convert if and:I when their VMS system is pried out of their cold, dead fingers, examining-H those two extremes gives at least some insight into the middle ground as well.   L If people are primarily sticking with VMS because of the pain of conversion,K then there just won't ever be any new customers for VMS unless the price is.G driven far *lower* than Unix alternatives, since there's so much easierhL access to Unix expertise and applications in the industry (same for Windows,H too).  Given Linux pricing, this is difficult.  Therefore, Compaq's bestL shot at revenue and profit is to price VMS as high as it can without drivingJ too many existing customers to convert - which means it can easily justifyJ pricing VMS somewhat higher than Unix, it just has to be a bit careful not to get too greedy.  H If people are sticking with VMS because they feel it offers unique valueI over Unix, then Compaq can easily justify pricing VMS as much higher than . Unix as these unique capabilities can support.  J Q.E.D.:  stop complaining that VMS is priced higher - just let Compaq knowE when it is priced *too* much higher.  14% of the overall system pricemL doesn't sound prima facie excessive, though it does likely cause some people to think about migrating.    - bill   >L > Bob Kaplow >oG > SPAM: spamrecycle@ChooseYourmail.com uce@ftc.gov postmaster@127.0.0.1    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 01:53:49 GMTd, From: kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org (Bob Kaplow)" Subject: Re: So who will buy VMS ?' Message-ID: <2000Apr13.215349.1@eisner>l  T In article <2000Apr13.164050.1@eisner>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes:@ > 	Could you clarify this a bit.  Are the actual hardware prices? > 	different OR did the total system cost come out more due to 7@ > 	VMS issues (i.e. licensing, clustering, etc.).  And if so, ifC > 	possible would license trade-ins help (assuming for a second youI! > 	had old licenses to trade-in).a  L The OS is bundled with the hardware part number, but there's ~$40K differentM in the base server. Then theres a ~$50K user license for VMS but not for UNIX L (unless this is a mistake). On top of that, the Compaq installation and 24x7E hardware uplift is ~$2500 more on the VMS box. For the same hardware!   I If I had old licenses to trade, of course ot would lower the VMS cost. ItiK would lower the UNIX cost too. But that's not my point. My point is that iftG Compaq wants VMS to be a viable product, there should be at least pricel0 parity between VMS and UNIX onthe same hardware.   	Bob Kaplow	  E SPAM:	spamrecycle@ChooseYourmail.com	uce@ftc.gov	postmaster@127.0.0.1,   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 00:06:18 -0400t0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>" Subject: Re: So who will buy VMS ?/ Message-ID: <38F69935.CFAF0B90@vl.videotron.ca>    Phillip Helbig wrote:.J > My point exactly.  I can understand Compaq pricing VMS higher than unix.H > You get what you pay for.  A "legacy automobile" like a Mercedes costsG > more than a Korean compact.  I don't know what price of VMS optimisese) > their profits, long, short or mid-term.a  
 Old thinking.m  K The vast majority of customers/market needs only 70% of VMS's capabilities.eM Because they do not need the extra 30%, they are not willing to pay the extrarK cost for VMS since NT and UNIX do the job. And once they go NT or UNIX they  will stick to it.c  M If VMS were priced to compete head on with NT and UNIX, then you'd get a muchsM larger potential market. And guess what, once that customer has VMS in there,nK as he grows, he'll be very happy to be able to eventually use that 30% that  VMS has that the others don't.  D VMS is not only at a price disadvantage, but also image/applicationsM disadvantage. So in many respects, VMS is inferior to NT and should be pricedeL less than NT because of that. Once VMS picks up steam and momentum, then theN prices can rise to match NT and UNIX. But until then, Compaq will have to push, VMS very strongly if it wants to make sales.    E If Comapq just wants to stay in the small niches left thinking VMS is M invioncible, it will have a very rude awakening when NT and UNIX attack those  niches quicker than expected.h   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Apr 2000 18:26:56 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)' Subject: SPAWN, MAIL, lexical functionsa. Message-ID: <8d53hg$42u$1@info.service.rug.nl>   Explain:   $ sh sym wso   WSO == "WRITE SYS$OUTPUT"BA $ WSO "the local time is ''f$cvtime(,,""WEEKDAY"")', ''f$time()'" 3 the local time is Thursday, 13-APR-2000 20:27:59.43 G $ spawn WSO "the local time is ''f$cvtime(,,""WEEKDAY"")', ''f$time()'"e( %DCL-S-SPAWNED, process HELBIG_2 spawned: %DCL-S-ATTACHED, terminal now attached to process HELBIG_23 the local time is Thursday, 13-APR-2000 20:28:01.79e4 %DCL-S-RETURNED, control returned to process _FTA59: $t   So far, so good.  K MAIL> spawn WSO "the local time is ''f$cvtime(,,""WEEKDAY"")', ''f$time()'"r7 the local time is ''f$cvtime(,,"WEEKDAY")', ''f$time()'  You have 0 new messages.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:51:56 -0300v1 From: "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com> + Subject: RE: SPAWN, MAIL, lexical functionsIK Message-ID: <F150836441C5D311A11700508B6FF01A6D5778@bdant024.bda.bobda.com>   ' so what exactly is the question here ??- - Darren   > ----------6 > From: 	helbig@astro.rug.nl[SMTP:helbig@astro.rug.nl]  > Reply To: 	helbig@astro.rug.nl) > Sent: 	Thursday, April 13, 2000 3:26 PM$ > To: 	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com* > Subject: 	SPAWN, MAIL, lexical functions > 
 > Explain: >  > $ sh sym wso >   WSO == "WRITE SYS$OUTPUT"vC > $ WSO "the local time is ''f$cvtime(,,""WEEKDAY"")', ''f$time()'"t5 > the local time is Thursday, 13-APR-2000 20:27:59.43mI > $ spawn WSO "the local time is ''f$cvtime(,,""WEEKDAY"")', ''f$time()'"H* > %DCL-S-SPAWNED, process HELBIG_2 spawned< > %DCL-S-ATTACHED, terminal now attached to process HELBIG_25 > the local time is Thursday, 13-APR-2000 20:28:01.79x6 > %DCL-S-RETURNED, control returned to process _FTA59: > $h >  > So far, so good. > @ > MAIL> spawn WSO "the local time is ''f$cvtime(,,""WEEKDAY"")', > ''f$time()'"9 > the local time is ''f$cvtime(,,"WEEKDAY")', ''f$time()'e > You have 0 new messages. >     F **********************************************************************C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and J may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.M They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they L are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copyingc of this message is prohibited.   Bank of Bermuda F **********************************************************************   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Apr 2000 15:42:20 PDTT From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515)+ Subject: Re: SPAWN, MAIL, lexical functionsn3 Message-ID: <LGu5XlSkEHx8@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>o  / In article <8d53hg$42u$1@info.service.rug.nl>, r1     	helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:"
 > Explain: >  > $ sh sym wso >   WSO == "WRITE SYS$OUTPUT" C > $ WSO "the local time is ''f$cvtime(,,""WEEKDAY"")', ''f$time()'" 5 > the local time is Thursday, 13-APR-2000 20:27:59.43eI > $ spawn WSO "the local time is ''f$cvtime(,,""WEEKDAY"")', ''f$time()'"i* > %DCL-S-SPAWNED, process HELBIG_2 spawned< > %DCL-S-ATTACHED, terminal now attached to process HELBIG_25 > the local time is Thursday, 13-APR-2000 20:28:01.79s6 > %DCL-S-RETURNED, control returned to process _FTA59: > $v >  > So far, so good. > M > MAIL> spawn WSO "the local time is ''f$cvtime(,,""WEEKDAY"")', ''f$time()'"a9 > the local time is ''f$cvtime(,,"WEEKDAY")', ''f$time()'n > You have 0 new messages.  2         And you expected something different?  :-)  H         With a  little  reflection,  you  may  now  appreciate  that theH     lexical functions you specified are evaluated by DCL in the _parent_H     process  _prior_  to  the SPAWN.  In Mail, the lexicals do  not  getF     evaluated but simply get passed on to the subprocess as _strings_.  H         BTW, one of my first queries to comp.os.vms "lo those many yearsH     ago"  was  asking  how  to  do  "delayed  evaluation"  of  lexicals,H     basically  so  that I could define a symbol containing lexicals  forH     which the lexicals wouldn't get evaluated until I used  the  symbol.H     AFAIK,  you simply can't do that.  I tried all sorts of combinationsH     of quotes and apostrophes.  Nothing  worked  and  no one in the newsH     group  came  up  with  a solution either.  It  seems  you're  tryingG     something analogous.  If so, you need to find a different approach.r           -Ken -- iM  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Edus:  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924:  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515N  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------B  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 20:05:10 -0400m+ From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>o+ Subject: Re: SPAWN, MAIL, lexical functionsf1 Message-ID: <38F62876.7D4EBCCB@trailing-edge.com>n  7 Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515 wrote:r > 0 > In article <8d53hg$42u$1@info.service.rug.nl>,6 >         helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:O > > MAIL> spawn WSO "the local time is ''f$cvtime(,,""WEEKDAY"")', ''f$time()'"n; > > the local time is ''f$cvtime(,,"WEEKDAY")', ''f$time()'e > > You have 0 new messages. > 4 >         And you expected something different?  :-) > J >         With a  little  reflection,  you  may  now  appreciate  that theJ >     lexical functions you specified are evaluated by DCL in the _parent_& >     process  _prior_  to  the SPAWN.  @ Is there some documentation about which ones are evaluated when?  A At least one obvious lexical is evaluated in the SPAWNed process, 7 as is easily determined from the school of hard knocks:e   $ write sys$output f$process() _FTA9:$ $ spawn write sys$output f$process()( %DCL-S-SPAWNED, process SHOPPA_1 spawned: %DCL-S-ATTACHED, terminal now attached to process SHOPPA_1 SHOPPA_13 %DCL-S-RETURNED, control returned to process _FTA9:i* $ spawn spawn write sys$output f$process()( %DCL-S-SPAWNED, process SHOPPA_1 spawned: %DCL-S-ATTACHED, terminal now attached to process SHOPPA_1( %DCL-S-SPAWNED, process SHOPPA_2 spawned: %DCL-S-ATTACHED, terminal now attached to process SHOPPA_2 SHOPPA_25 %DCL-S-RETURNED, control returned to process SHOPPA_1 3 %DCL-S-RETURNED, control returned to process _FTA9:t   Tim.   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Apr 2000 21:58:07 CST; From: wayne@tachyon.xxx.515633.killspam.068e (Wayne Sewell)e$ Subject: Re: Sun question for Andrew. Message-ID: <T63EzjMnThOH@tachxxsoftxxconsult>   In article <Pine.LNX.4.05.10004131459040.14376-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com>, Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com> writes:? > On Mon, 10 Apr 2000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:t >  >> Scott Vieth wrote: M >> > Is there a newsgroup similar to comp.os.vms where folks discuss Solaris?B >  >> It is comp.unix.solaris > K > I'm not trying to slam solaris here... but does it strike anybody else aseI > funny that the solaris newsgroup doesn't have an ".os." anywhere in they > name?o >   J Even more strangely, the nt newsgroups do, i.e. comp.os.ms-windows.nt.misc    G Billy Gates wouldn't know an operating system if it bit him in the ass.h   --  O ===============================================================================tK Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachyon.xxxu8 http://www.tachyon.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O ===============================================================================hN Butler:"Gentlemen!"  Curly(as he and other Stooges look around):"Who came in?"   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 00:29:25 GMTu6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <A_C_Bustamante@earthlink.net>. Subject: VMS 7.2-1 Upgrade & large directoriesE Message-ID: <FDtJ4.14409$q67.438530@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>k  G I'm testing our database application on Alpha VMS 7.2-1 (from VMS 7.1).hB Steve Hoffman noted a DECUS presentation that handling a directoryG with large number of files is improved in 7.2.  Do I need to goto ODS-5e> to get this improvement or can I remain at the ODS-2.  The webJ frontend to my application creates a large amount of small files.  And yesE our developers are already reviewing changes to the application.  But  I have 7.2-1 in hands today.  A Does anyone have any other "gotchas" with the upgrade from 7.1 to-F 7.2-1?   I've got the VMS 721 Update v0100   (let's here it for rollup* updates!  Thanks Compaq) and Diagnose 3.1.     -- Andy Bustamante2 Alpha / OpenVMS ASEn Remove the ASCII 95s to reply2   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:57:33 -0700t4 From: goodman_j <goodmanNOgoSPAM@accuwx.com.invalid>$ Subject: what does "Dpnd Busy" mean?9 Message-ID: <09a085ee.a0051a38@usw-ex0101-006.remarq.com>e  : What does it mean in ANALYZE/SYSTEM's SHOW PROCESS/CHANNEL. command if a channel shows up as "Dpnd Busy" ?  ; I keep getting batch processes stuck in LEF state that showl: this.  The batch process usually no longer has a batch job@ associated with it.  The channel is to a temporary scratch file.  > It also seems that other batch processes on the system spend a@ lot of time in PFW state while this is occuring.  The channel in? question is not on the system disk, although the disk is in the & same BA356 cabinet as the system disk.  ? I can not STOP the problem process.  It just stays in LEF statee8 (I would have expected it to go into RWAST state with an< outstanding I/O).  So I have to reboot to clear the problem.  @ This is happening every couple of weeks on two AlphaServer 4100s< with four 5/533 processors running OpenVMS 6.2-1H3 with most+ patches installed, including ALPSCSI07_062.B   Thanks in advance for any help.u  
 J. Goodman
 ----------: "Any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic."  ClarkeL * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *G The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!w   ------------------------------    Date: 13 Apr 2000 21:05:02 -05000 From: rivie@server.logan.teraglobal (Roger Ivie)  Subject: XADRIVER documentation?: Message-ID: <slrn8fcv5l.b3o.rivie@server.logan.teraglobal>  : Say, guys, is there any currently extant documentation for4 XADRIVER, the DR11-W driver for VAX/VMS? It is still1 supplied as an example driver, but seems to have |1 disappeared from the I/O User's Reference Manual.g  / I'm asking because I recently wrote an XADRIVERa/ work-alike for a PCI device under OpenVMS/Alphar1 and now am on the hook for some documentation. Itm- would be really helpful if I could point at ap9 manual and describe my differences. It's starting to lookm5 like I'm going to have to do a full writeup because Is/ can't count on folks having old manuals hanging . around (on the other hand, the whole point of - making it compatible with XADRIVER is just ini/ case someone has old _code_ hanging around...).   2 Failing that, would old versions of the I/O User's- Reference Manual be covered under the blanket., permission to copy old software manuals that, allows (for example) the PDP-8 manuals to be traded around? -- t
 Roger Ivie mailto:rivie@teraglobal.com  phoneto:(435)787-0555h Speaking only for myself    > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!S> -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.208 ************************ to set up and move everything to, and the perception by otherssK that VMS offers unique advantages over Unix and theyaΈad  :   `Ja{a                    @   y8           y8  
AaSL ӧ          s            8       @aݖ߫4   vaW`B`Jޜa,a   >   `Ja$a0                    @   y8           y8  
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