1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 20 Apr 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 221       Contents:; Re: ??== Alternatives to DDS-3 DAT tapes on Alpha/OVMS 7.2. $ Re: Backup Strategies for Enterprise$ RE: Backup Strategies for Enterprise) Re: Calculating Discordian dates from DCL ) Re: Calculating Discordian dates from DCL  DCL Hackery  Re: re:  Re: DE500 problem/docs  Re: re:  Re: DE500 problem/docs , Re: DECW$DEVICE-I-NODEVICE and no decwindows, Re: DECW$DEVICE-I-NODEVICE and no decwindows! Re: Dropping DECnet..don't do it! ! Re: Dropping DECnet..don't do it! ! Re: Dropping DECnet..don't do it! ! Re: Dropping DECnet..don't do it! ! Re: Dropping DECnet..don't do it! ! RE: Dropping DECnet..don't do it!  Re: EMC Disk Storage EMC Disk Storage Re: EMC Disk Storage Re: EMC Disk Storage Re: EMC Disk Storage< Further to = Re: Upgraded (hardware) 8400 System not booting Help With a Lexical  Re: Help With a Lexical  Re: Help With a Lexical  Re: Help With a Lexical  RE: Help With a Lexical K Re: How can you find the exact size of a file in bytes using a VMS command?  How to use SYS$CREPRC  Re: How to use SYS$CREPRC  RE: How to use SYS$CREPRC ( Infoserver CD-R (was: Verify of Backups) Re: Mozilla M15's out... Re: Mozilla M15's out... Re: Mozilla M15's out... Re: Mozilla M15's out...* Re: OpenVMS mail question: Attached files?! Re: Scheduler & PSDC alternatives ! Re: Scheduler & PSDC alternatives > Re: Sending MIME attachments in OpenVMS 7.1-H1 and TCPware 5.3+ Upgraded (hardware) 8400 System not booting / Re: Upgraded (hardware) 8400 System not booting / Re: Upgraded (hardware) 8400 System not booting / Re: Upgraded (hardware) 8400 System not booting & VAX CI storage vs served fibre channel Re: Verify of Backups  Re: Verify of Backups  Re: Verify of Backups  Re: Verify of Backups  RE: Verify of Backups  Re: Verify of Backups  RE: Verify of Backups  Re: Verify of Backups  RE: Verify of Backups  Re: Verify of Backups  Re: Verify of Backups  Re: Verify of Backups  Re: Verify of Backups  RE: Verify of Backups  Re: Verify of Backups  Re: Verify of Backups  Re: Verify of backups  Re: Verify of Backups  Re: Verify of Backups  Re: Web server for VAX/VMS Re: Web server for VAX/VMS Re: Web server for VAX/VMS RE: What's this option?  RE: What's this option?  Re: What's this option?  Re: What's this option?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:48:31 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> D Subject: Re: ??== Alternatives to DDS-3 DAT tapes on Alpha/OVMS 7.2.) Message-ID: <38FEFC9F.5C2482A9@gtech.com>    Malcolm Dunnett wrote:+ > In article <38FD6089.D534F2DA@gtech.com>, D >    Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:I > > As I understand it, then th eproblems primarily arise with long tapes 6 > > (120 m and above) if people reuse them many times.  K >    Doesn't that mean you're limited to writing in DDS-1 or DDS-DC format, I > regardless of the type of drive you have? This would give you a maximum 1 > tape capacity of 2GB native ( 4GB compressed ).    Yes.  6 But if you need more than 4 GB tapes, then I think DLT is the way to go.    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:52:38 +1200 * From: "Ryan C. Price" <pricerc@ihug.co.nz>- Subject: Re: Backup Strategies for Enterprise * Message-ID: <8dmk18$6rc$1@news.ihug.co.nz>  A I'd check out Legato, mostly because it has the broadest platform 	 support I  know of in its market.  E Bearing in mind that VMS is a late addition to the Legato family, and  that it has C some features missing on other platforms, there are some holes, but  (the VMS client)= it is basically a sound product (IIRC, developed with, or by,  DEC/Compaq). I'm3 sure someone else has more information to add here.   E Unfortunately, IIRC it can't do 'IMAGE' backups (I may be wrong, it's  been a while),C and because of the way it works, if you need to restore your system  disk, you need to B first install a (minimal) OS on your system disk, then install the Legato client, then do your E restore. Not the most elegant, but with VMS, disasters are so few and  far between, you can probably live with it ;-).  F So if you can live with these restrictions (/IMAGE is generally only a biggie on system? disks, on most (there are exceptions) data disks an appropriate  INITIALIZE will suffice).   C For the convenience of easily restoring specific files 'on-demand',  Legato NetWorkerD is great, if quirky (you get used to it quickly though). I found its good tape library support  made my life easier, too.   B I have used it with success in a VMS environment (with an NT/Alpha Legato Server).    /Ryan       8 "Don Rogstad" <Don.Rogstad@dalsemi.com> wrote in messageB news:EA5FE99F5DEAD311A6CB00805F199992BCA805@misnts1.dalsemi.com...D > Our current environment has lots of Sun boxes, Digital Unix boxes,C Windows NT boxes and of course, OpenVMS VAX and Alpha machines.  We ? are now looking for ways to consolidate the backup process from  multiple machines / platforms. > @ > Does anyone consolidate backups from various platforms?   WhatA products do you use?   Given the reliability of OpenVMS backup, I ? would like to use OpenVMS as the backup server, but this is not  necessarily a requirement. > F >     It looks like Compaq has two solutions.   One, ABS and the otherB Legato.  Has anyone used Legato Networker?  Wasn't ABS sold to CA?5 Anyone used either one for multiple platform backups?  > 8 >    Your thoughts and ideas on backups are appreciated. > 	 > Thanks, 
 > Don Rogstad  > Dallas Semiconductor > 972.371.4570 > Don.Rogstad@dalsemi.com  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 12:10:16 GMT , From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)- Subject: RE: Backup Strategies for Enterprise ' Message-ID: <2000Apr20.081016.1@eisner>   v In article <EA5FE99F5DEAD311A6CB00805F199992BCA807@misnts1.dalsemi.com>, Don Rogstad <Don.Rogstad@dalsemi.com> writes: > Which was one of reasons to find out what others are doing.  I know the reliability of OpenVMS Backup.  I have heard of the un-reliability of both Un*xes Dump and NT's attempts at backup.  Actually Seagate Backup Exec on my Windows NT workstation seems to backup pretty reliable, but I have never needed to do a restore yet.  (At least it runs daily and gives a log of what it could and could not back up).  But we are looking for an "enterprise" solution to help manage all the tapes, tape drives, man power c u> rA > rently needed.   But we want a solution that is STILL RELIABLE.  >     D What out for systems that will "backup" anything, but can't resore aF file from VMS with it's proper attributes.  We only backup VMS systems on VMS systems.   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = Hubble Space Telescope Payload  | Federal Sector, Civil Group E  Flight Software Team           | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:20:12 GMT % From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> 2 Subject: Re: Calculating Discordian dates from DCL) Message-ID: <8dmp53$532$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   4 In article <38FE1596.FB176413@netscapeonline.co.uk>,   mpatt@bigfoot.com wrote: > Hi, = > 	Working in the finance sector I keep getting asked for the  current dateF > in Discordian format, I couldn't find any routines or lexicals to do it  ; Bizarre fact of the day (as you work in the finance sector)   > In one of his more recent books Robert Anton Wilson (author ofA Illuminatus! and other Discordian Sci-Fi/Fantasy) points out that @ a suspected German hacker was a fan of his and committed suicideA while being investigated by the FBI and German authorities. As he > had a collection of Wilson books when they raided his home and? signed himself "Hagbard Celine" (a character from Illuminatus!) ; in email any postings relating to the novels were deemed to > come from potentially suspicious persons - A level of paranoia! worthy of the books I must add...   = So don't blame me if funny vans start turning up outside your - house and your phone develops strange clicks.    Hagbard. :) --
 Alan Greig    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Apr 2000 16:45:38 GMT' From: Thomas Dzubin <dzubint@vcn.bc.ca> 2 Subject: Re: Calculating Discordian dates from DCL. Message-ID: <8dnc7i$4kr$1@sylvester.vcn.bc.ca>  B That is the single most useful piece of DCL code that I've seen inD this newsgroup for months...I will immediately add this to all of my	 programs.  I verily proclaim it to be so!< (see also: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tilt/principia/body.html )  F    "Today is Setting Orange, the 37th day of Discord, Anno Mung 3166; %     and the moon is waning gibbous. "   
 Thomas Dzubin   / mpatt644 <mpatt644@netscapeonline.co.uk> wrote:  > Hi, J > 	Working in the finance sector I keep getting asked for the current dateI > in Discordian format, I couldn't find any routines or lexicals to do it E > for me so I hacked together the attached bit of DCL. I though't I'd I > share it here in case anyone else find's it usefull. Obviously the moon & > phases part is just a bit of fun ;-)  	 > Martyn.    > --- Cut here --- > $save_verify = f$verify(0) <code snipped>	 > $return    --  L ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Thomas Dzubin ' Vancouver, Saskatoon, or Calgary CANADA    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 10:30:08 -0700 3 From: "Wolf, Gerald J" <Gerald.Wolf@F22.Boeing.com>  Subject: DCL HackeryQ Message-ID: <C16B19ADF2A3D111882C00805FE6C65004FF365D@xch-f22bh-01.ds.boeing.com>   E Is there a DCL procedure out there to disuser users who have password J changed is older than a specified amount of time? Is there a way to notifyL these users before they are disusered using the above method.  We would like' to do this on a daily or monthly basis.   J Please include the procedure if you can.  Is there a place on the internet  with contributed DCL procedures?  
 Thank You,
 Gerry Wolf Gerald (Gerry) Wolf    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:52:23 GMT , From: kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org (Bob Kaplow)( Subject: Re: re:  Re: DE500 problem/docs' Message-ID: <2000Apr20.095223.1@eisner>   R In article <Ft0swu.92s@spcuna.spc.edu>, Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> writes:0 > Bob Kaplow <kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org> writes:M >> IIRC, there were some problems with the -XA that necessitated upgrading to M >> the -AA or -BA. I jsut can't remember what they were :-( There are patches E >> for V6.2 to support the newer DE500s. Start with ALPBOOT06_062 and  >> ALPLAN04_062, or better.  > I >   The -XA and the -AA are both 21140 parts. The -XA doesn't even try to F > autonegotiate, while the -AA muddles along. The -BA is a 21143 part.  L I don't think I've got an -XA I can check, but IIRC, the chip numbers on the XA and AA were different.   J >   The Ethernet on the KZPCM-DA (2-channel SCSI plus Ethernet) is an -AA. > J >   All of the single-Ethernet 2114x cards from Digipaq have been retired.J > The DE504 is apparently still available. The replacement are 3X-DE600-??( > parts, which are based on Intel chips. > / > 	Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com 7 >         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USA  --    * 	Bob Kaplow	NAR # 18L	TRA # "Ctrl-Alt-Del"  M Kaplow Klips:	http://members.aol.com/myhprcato/KaplowKlips.html (baffle too!) < NIRA:		http://www.nira.chicago.il.us	NAR:	http://www.nar.orgE SPAM:	spamrecycle@ChooseYourmail.com	uce@ftc.gov	postmaster@127.0.0.1    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 16:38:48 GMT ( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>( Subject: Re: re:  Re: DE500 problem/docs' Message-ID: <FtBq8p.Aw5@spcuna.spc.edu>   . Bob Kaplow <kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org> writes:N > I don't think I've got an -XA I can check, but IIRC, the chip numbers on the > XA and AA were different.   ,   -XA - chip is a 21140-AB, P/N 21-40673-02.  ,   -AA - chip is a 21140-AF, P/N 21-43864-04.  ,   -BA - chip is a 21143-PC, P/N 21-44085-12.  J   This is from physical inspection of 3 boards. I suspect some boards have6 different part numbers and perhaps different suffixes.  N   The manual at http://developer.intel.com/design/network/manuals/21140ahm.pdfL says that the 21140-AD, -AE, and -AF are the "Pass 2" parts, so these shouldI be on the -AA cards, and the older -21140-AA, -AB, and -AC "Pass 1" parts M would be on the -XA cards. Some of these parts may not have been released, or 5 released only to OEM's and not placed on DE500 cards.   - 	Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com 5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USA    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:58:27 -0400 5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> 5 Subject: Re: DECW$DEVICE-I-NODEVICE and no decwindows + Message-ID: <8dn9cs$c70$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>   C Well.  Yes.  Run the ECU.  This is the EISA-only system box -- yes?       J lucverhoelst@my-deja.com wrote in message <8dklki$q3s$1@nnrp1.deja.com>... >That's exactly what I tried . >Any other suggestions ?< >I'm willing to try it to get some Windows on this machine ./ >Or should I reinstall a lower version of VMS .  >  > , >In article <8dfgjv$ihm$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>,9 >  "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote: I >> Wow, it's that old that it still has that syntax.  Do a set console 2,  >> followed byE >> a INIT command, and then when the >>> comes up on the VGA console,  >boot  >> from there. >>D >> Tony Champagne wrote in message <38FADA32.FF6A9766@genicom.be>...# >> >I wish it was just soo simple .  >> >However it makes sence .$ >> >But doing a SET CONSOLE Graphics >> >it returns ILL CMD ./ >> >Help set console shows serial (1)or VGA (2) 9 >> >So I tried set console 2 , Boot VMS and no DECWindows : >> >Then tried set console 1, Boot VMS and no DECWindows .4 >> >The error after the VMS boot is still the same . >> >? >> >Comments still welcome to get this machine up and running .  >> > >> >Luc Verhoelst  >> > >> >Fred Kleinsorge wrote: >> >B >> >> This seems like an easy one... the DEC2000 is one of the few
 >platforms >> whereD >> >> the console was written by a group unfamiliar with the SRM and >> workstations.G >> >> If you boot the system from the serial port, it configures the HW  >RestartG >> >> Paramater Block to use a Type 2 Console Terminal Block - and does  >notB >> >> connect the mouse and keyboard drivers.  No mouse & keyboard >console >> >> drivers, no DECwindows.  >> >> B >> >> This has been a restriction since the day the platform first
 >shipped.  If I >> >> you want to use the graphics, do a SET CONSOLE GRAPHICS followed by  >an  >> INIT  >> >> at the console.  >> >> / >> >> lucverhoelst@my-deja.com wrote in message # >> <8cuvbl$a3q$1@nnrp1.deja.com>... 5 >> >> >I installed VMS 7.1 on a DEC2000 model 300 AXP I >> >> >This was a Fresh install , including format of the disk and during  >theC >> >> >installation the layered product DECWINDOWS was selected and  >installed . >> >> >  >> >> >Rom version 2.2 >> >> >SRM FW version 370 3 >> >> >Doing a show config on the boot prompt I see  >> >> >1  ISA   VGA OK: >> >> >The installation completed all on the Blue screen .< >> >> >The VMS startup terminates correctly (job terminated)& >> >> >but the DECWindows do not start3 >> >> >On the end of the startup there is a message 8 >> >> >DECW$DEVICE-I-Nodevice, no graphics devices found >> >> > > >> >> >The License for VMS and DW-Motif are loaded and active.' >> >> >I can login on the OPA0: device.   >> >> >Rund DECW$Configure I get >> >> >Number of Screens 0& >> >> >Screen devices and order : NONE >> >> > ( >> >> >Using MC SYSGEN> Windows_system 1 >> >> > - >> >> >So the windows parameter is set to 1 .  >> >> > ' >> >> >Any suggestions how to proceed ?  >> >> >  >> >> > - >> >> >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/  >> >> >Before you buy. >> > >> >> >  > ' >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/  >Before you buy.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:57:51 -0500 % From: Chris Scheers <asi@airmail.net> 5 Subject: Re: DECW$DEVICE-I-NODEVICE and no decwindows2O Message-ID: <5CD8A6933D280F71.FB9A04A2B2FA7D89.B9488C43F05A5471@lp.airnews.net>    lucverhoelst@my-deja.com wrote:e >  > That's exactly what I tried .e > Any other suggestions ?n= > I'm willing to try it to get some Windows on this machine .C0 > Or should I reinstall a lower version of VMS .   This is a DEC 2000-300, right?   What video card are you using?  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------d$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  G 817-237-3360 (Voice)    817-237-3074 (Fax)    Internet: asi@airmail.netd   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:48:41 GMT 0 From: carlini@true.lkg.dec.com (Antonio Carlini)* Subject: Re: Dropping DECnet..don't do it!* Message-ID: <8dmfn1$h4r@usenet.pa.dec.com>  Y In article <38FBE98C.B7CDE436@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:WN >They wouldn't be crazy enough to try.  They wouldn't want to try.  It's a bitP >like VMS V5.5-2.  There were enough users still using this version that patchesM >were produced and it was certified for Y2K.  I'd guess that there are enough   L I may be wrong but I thought at least some of the Y2K patches (specifically H the ones for V5.5-2) were for customers with a support contract only as J opposed to being freely downloadable by all. (IIRC at the time V5.5-2 was " already on Prior Version Support).  F If you really think that a Phase/IP style (and compatible) support is O something you want then convince product management that it is worth doing. If aJ they think that they will claw back the development costs then they might  consider it.  O AFAIK no group has resources sloshing around just looking for something to do. eO Adding DECnet4-over-TCP will mean taking resources away from something else. I oO don't recall whether DECnet4 support is done by EDS or by VMS Eng. If it's the  N former then there will be a real, visible cost to be paid, if it's the latter E then someone gets to choose which current project to delay or cancel.e   Antoniok  I Antonio Carlini                            Mail: carlini@true.lkg.dec.com # DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS Engineeringe6 COMPAQ                                     Reading, UK   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 12:57:56 -0400t0 From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca>* Subject: Re: Dropping DECnet..don't do it!/ Message-ID: <38FF3714.8B567F7F@vl.videotron.ca>e   Antonio Carlini wrote:P > don't recall whether DECnet4 support is done by EDS or by VMS Eng. If it's theO > former then there will be a real, visible cost to be paid, if it's the lattertG > then someone gets to choose which current project to delay or cancel.Q  J What I would suggest is that Decpaq focus on providing an NCP interface toE decnet-5 (one that is complete and works). In other words, provide onoL decnet-5, the same ease and simplicity of management that was available withI NCP and a permanent/volatile databases instead of a million scripts lyingh2 around and complex (at first) management concepts.  M NCL could then simply become an emulator that would translate NCL commands tonM NCP commands to provide compatibility with those already running NCL scripts.a  H My impression of decnet-5 is that it lacks a management tool that was asI simple and easy to use as NCP. I got rid of decnet-5 and upgraded back torI decnet-4 because I was sick and tired or trying to fight it to remove alla- those opcom messages. It just wasn't natural.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 16:52:59 GMTn( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>* Subject: Re: Dropping DECnet..don't do it!' Message-ID: <FtBqwC.B7v@spcuna.spc.edu>n  2 Antonio Carlini <carlini@true.lkg.dec.com> writes:Q > AFAIK no group has resources sloshing around just looking for something to do. tQ > Adding DECnet4-over-TCP will mean taking resources away from something else. I eQ > don't recall whether DECnet4 support is done by EDS or by VMS Eng. If it's the lP > former then there will be a real, visible cost to be paid, if it's the latter G > then someone gets to choose which current project to delay or cancel.   I   All the way back to the Digital days, management made decisions without G considering what the customers wanted. "Prior Version Support" is a wayoI to charge customers who don't see the value in moving to a newer release,u@ either out of inertia or because they don't see it as a benefit.  J   Before PVS, there were many customers running old VMS releases. I forgetI if it was VMS V4.x to V5.x or V5.x to V6.x, but the CSC started a programtI to actually perform the upgrades for the customers in order to try to get J them to move up. At one site where I consulted, the customer backed up hisL system, sent the tapes to the CSC, they restored the system and upgraded it,K then sent the tapes back, all over a long weekend. I'm pretty sure this wasiK V4 to V5, as there was a license fiasco as well as many, many problems witho the system.s  H   There were/are *huge* groups of customers parked at V4.7 and V5.5 (andK the V5.5 dash releases) who simply said "hell no, we won't go" because theydJ saw no benefit to upgrading. Until most of my customers migrated to Alphas: at V7.2-1, they all ran VMS V5.5-2H4 and similar releases.  J   Rather than using progressively larger sticks to hit the customers (likeG PVS uplifts, and then saying "yup, it's a bug but we won't fix it, even J though you're paying extra for us to support you"), Compaq should find outJ why the customers don't want to upgrade and, in the cases where it is pos- sible, address those issues.  I   For example, the thing that made it worthwhile for most of my customers-G to upgrade were the directory performance fixes in V7.2 - they went outgI and bought DS10's and DS20's to replace their VAXes, mostly for this sin-  gle fix.  K   In the case of DECnet, the Phase V syntax is ugly, there's far less field1L experience with it, and for many customers it doesn't provide any additionalL features. And for the folks who want DECnet-over-IP, I guess the majority ofK them feel the pain isn't worth the benefit - that's certainly the only rea-tJ son I can see for them paying more to continue Phase IV support *and* buy-K ing Cisco routers to tunnel DECnet over IP. There's a market here, and Com-.H paq is missing out on it, regardless of whether they want to admit it orJ not. Compaq could charge extra for the DECnet-over-IP support for Phase IVK and some customers would buy it - as long as it's cheaper than the softwares/ for the Cisco routers that does the same thing.t  - 	Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com'5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USA  	o   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Apr 2000 17:10:35 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)* Subject: Re: Dropping DECnet..don't do it!, Message-ID: <8dndmb$ipn@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  ] In article <8dmfn1$h4r@usenet.pa.dec.com>, carlini@true.lkg.dec.com (Antonio Carlini) writes:rP >AFAIK no group has resources sloshing around just looking for something to do. P >Adding DECnet4-over-TCP will mean taking resources away from something else. I P >don't recall whether DECnet4 support is done by EDS or by VMS Eng. If it's the O >former then there will be a real, visible cost to be paid, if it's the latter hF >then someone gets to choose which current project to delay or cancel.  P Decnet-Plus maybe?  If it's a political problem  consider it "Decnet-Plus light" instead of "Decnet-4+".h  I Or chuck the "NIH" syndrome and just license the code from Process.  I'd t; love this capability on other OS's too, so that I could do:n  0 $ edit foobar.moobar.com::disk:[dir]somefile.txt  I and have it work no matter which OS is present at each end.  (Even if it t only worked for text files!)   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduh? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech l   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 17:23:11 GMTl2 From: kilgallen@eisner.decus.org (Larry Kilgallen)* Subject: Re: Dropping DECnet..don't do it!' Message-ID: <2000Apr20.132311.1@eisner>e  b In article <38FF3714.8B567F7F@vl.videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vl.videotron.ca> writes:  L > What I would suggest is that Decpaq focus on providing an NCP interface to, > decnet-5 (one that is complete and works).  E A complete NCP interface is not possible, as Phase V does not support G SET EXEC DEFAULT ACCESS NONE, SET NODE <nodename> ACCESS INCOMING, etc.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 18:45:23 +0100n8 From: John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk>* Subject: RE: Dropping DECnet..don't do it!L Message-ID: <F02D5A46B8AED311BE4F0090279FA2401E8323@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>  L Compaq really need to provide a recipe for running DECnetV in DECnetIV mode.K By this I mean (in DECnetV terms) LOCAL: + DOMAIN: i.e. DECnet on the local G network + DECnet/IP. The ability to be able to use DECnet/IP across therJ Internet, without any special provision, between any two consenting DECnetD nodes is such a huge bonus that it's sad to see so many people beingI deprived of this facility simply because of the complexity of the DECnetVy implementation.s   John  B Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.ukH Post: Nuclear and Astrophysics Laboratory, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UKA Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 20:06:11 +1200-* From: "Ryan C. Price" <pricerc@ihug.co.nz> Subject: Re: EMC Disk Storage<* Message-ID: <8dmdpl$k4m$1@news.ihug.co.nz>  ? As a former StorageWorks consultant, I'd strongly recommend you2? get hold of a competent StorageWorks consultant before you makei a decision to buy EMC.  @ In my time in competition with EMC, I never lost a deal to them, becauseoD I was always able to offer my customers more than EMC for a lot less( money (usually less than half the $/GB).  F If you're wanting to hang on to CI (not that I'd recommend it), I'd beA very reluctant to talk to anyone other than Compaq if I were you.e  ? If you're willing and able to switch technologies (to say Fibre 	 Channel),2F then there's no way EMC will be able to give you the same flexibility,; redundancy and performance as StorageWorks in an OpenVMS orr heterogenous network.   F I also don't like EMC's style of business, discussed elsewhere in this thread already.a   /Ryanl> no longer working for Compaq (although the above might make it# seem like I do, I promise I don't).a  9 "Paul M Boynton" <pmboynton@us.hsbc.com> wrote in messagew. news:852568C6.00688C18.00@mail2.us.hsbc.com... >t >n >rA > We are in the process of evaluating EMC disk storage to replace  Compaq > StorageWorksE > controllers and disk on an OpenVMS CI cluster. Does anyone have anyt
 experience$ > good or bad with EMC disk storage? >r >  > Paul Boynton > HSBC Bank, USA
 > Buffalo, NYI > Pmboynton@us.hsbc.comt >  >a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 07:22:30 -0400p2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com> Subject: EMC Disk Storagei7 Message-ID: <200004200722_MC2-A1EC-A4CD@compuserve.com>   J         I've been running an EMC 3630 array since last August.  It works.=  =  J Occasionally an EMC guy shows up and replaces a disk or a power supply or=  aF cable.  If I didn't catch him in the act, I'd never know he was there!  G         I have two objections to EMC.  They cost at least half again ashJ much as the equivalent amount of Storageworks disk space.  You can't mana= geJ it yourself; their high priesthood has to do it for you!  There wasn't ev= enF a user's manual for the darned thing!  They want $7K to reconfigure my> array from RAID 1 to "RAID S".  (Management's idea, not mine!)  J         If you just want to pay and not worry about it, go for it.  But b= ee/ sure that you will pay, and pay, and pay. . . .t  ( Message text written by "Paul M Boynton"G >We are in the process of evaluating EMC disk storage to replace Compaq/ StorageWorksC controllers and disk on an OpenVMS CI cluster. Does anyone have any 
 experience" good or bad with EMC disk storage? <a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:14:53 +0100s  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com Subject: Re: EMC Disk Storagep> Message-ID: <802568C7.00438361.00@qedilc01.qedi.quintiles.com>  H I think Richard has highlighted the difference between a) those that useJ Storageworks and those that don't and b) the difference between VMS SystemN Managers and others.  In my case, I want to know who's been mucking about withO my storage subsystems and I want to be able to reconfigure things as I need to.w  P Free space in disk cabinets always gets filled up before you can buy more.  ThisM is the nature of the business.  One can go round and police the systems or dorI purges on a regular basis but we'd all rather not, right?  I've had a few O occasions over the last 12 months where I've needed to change the configs in mytO ESA10ks either to replace disks with bigger ones or to add new disks into emptymM slots.  I want to have that flexibility.  I don't want to just have a pair ofdJ SCSI cables coming out of a black box and be told "That's you SCSI bus and! that's all you'll know about it".a    Hence, I'm running Storageworks.  K EMC's solution is ideal though for outsourcing companies like EDS or CSC oreO Perot where there's a cost involved with downtime.  One can just turn round and P say "not our fault Guv', blame EMC" and get EMC to foot the bill for the penalty of the downtime.   Steve.  5 Richard Gilbert (dragon at compuserve dot com) wrote:sL >>>        I've been running an EMC 3630 array since last August.  It works.K Occasionally an EMC guy shows up and replaces a disk or a power supply or atF cable.  If I didn't catch him in the act, I'd never know he was there!  G         I have two objections to EMC.  They cost at least half again asnK much as the equivalent amount of Storageworks disk space.  You can't managelK it yourself; their high priesthood has to do it for you!  There wasn't evennF a user's manual for the darned thing!  They want $7K to reconfigure myA array from RAID 1 to "RAID S".  (Management's idea, not mine!)<<<w   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 15:32:43 +0100 B From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> Subject: Re: EMC Disk Storages* Message-ID: <38FF150B.EB4E0344@uk.sun.com>  ! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:-  " > Hence, I'm running Storageworks. > M > EMC's solution is ideal though for outsourcing companies like EDS or CSC oroQ > Perot where there's a cost involved with downtime.  One can just turn round andsR > say "not our fault Guv', blame EMC" and get EMC to foot the bill for the penalty > of the downtime. >>  G Actually its simpler than that. The EMC solution is OK for steady stategA systems where the number of changes made to the storage subsystem1 are low over a long period.   B Where people have a more fluid environment where systems are beingG added and removed or where storage is being modified on a regular basise? then the EMC managed data service does not work nearly so well.M  B One customer I used to advise bought into the managed data serviceE in a big way, they liked the idea of not having to manage the storageBC themselves allowing EMC engineers to do the job at a cost for them.a  F However their environment changes quite a lot and the IT organisationsF customers expect very quick response times for comisioning new systemsD or making changes to existing systems. They found that EMC added tooB much latency and so they made EMC allow them to manage the systems themselves.u  H This of course means that they are paying for the managed service, whichI was the deciding factor in their choice to buy EMC but they are not usingh it.d     Regards  Andrew Harrison> Enterprise IT Architectt   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:12:11 -0400/' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>> Subject: Re: EMC Disk Storagee( Message-ID: <8dndjp$8mm$1@pyrite.mv.net>  - Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> wrote in messageh2 news:4.3.1.0.20000419200743.01d139b0@24.8.96.48..., > At 02:47 PM 4/19/00 -0700, Bob Fera wrote:   ...C  8 > >The Symm also does a lot of proactive error checking,L > >attempting to detect failing devices before they become a problem, and itE > >has the ability to contact service automatically when it detects a' problem. >tI > The StorageWorks systems don't do much proactive drive probing, so theyeF > won't generally see a bad spot or problem until you run across it inI > practice. It's been my experience that drives either fail gradually, in-J > which case you'll see it before it dies, or just fail abruptly, in whichF > case it doesn't matter much. Besides, that's why you have the things RAIDedE > or mirrored in the first place--when something does start to go thedJ > controller swaps the bad drive out and brings one of your spares on-line
 > for you.  K One might guess that EMC-style checks (which 'way back when mostly involved L drive 'scrubbing' that scanned its way through the entire drive sequentiallyH during idle periods to make sure data could still be read without heroicL efforts) have somewhat less value than they used to:  current drives performI much more self-monitoring than earlier ones and tend to catch the kind oftK gradual degradations (e.g., increasing re-tries) that can warn of impendingwH catastrophic failure.  They won't catch localized surface degradation inK areas left untouched for long periods, but that type of failure is less aptnI to escalate suddenly to catastrophic levels and, as Dan said, that's whatp redundancy is for anyway.t  D Of course, it wouldn't kill StorageWorks to include background scans	 either...y   - bill   > L > SWCC seems pretty good about noticing things like drive failures. Besides,L > you do walk your computer room looking for the amber warning lights anyway > just to be sure, right? :) >a > Danm >mK > --------------------------------------"it's like this"-------------------M4 > Dan Sugalski                          even samuraiA > dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and eveno= >                                       teddy bears get drunk  >n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 15:11:58 +0000E$ From: Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.ukE Subject: Further to = Re: Upgraded (hardware) 8400 System not booting-/ Message-ID: <002568C7.0053952D.00@quegw01.btyp>   = Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza:   Further to the below;'  M I have been able to boot from the VMS 7.2-1 CDRom. So perhaps it isn't memoryt then... :-)e  . Still can't boot from that system disk though.   Steve Spires VMS System Manager Yellow Pages        5 Steve.Spires@YELLOWPAGES.CO.UK on 20/04/2000 14:55:20m    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages)gC From:      Steve.Spires@YELLOWPAGES.CO.UK, 20 April 2000, 2:55 p.m.(  + Upgraded (hardware) 8400 System not booting,         cc:  bcc:= Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plazal  + Upgraded (hardware) 8400 System not bootingi  	 Dear All,i  L We have just upgraded an 8400 replacing the existing single CPU with two newL ones, and adding another 2 GB of memory. When trying to boot the system, the following occurs;d   jumping to bootstrap coder   CPU 0 halted   halt code = 2i   kernel stack not valid haltt   PC = fffffffffffffffct  N I suspect this may be a memory related error, but haven't seen this particular message before.c  J Can anyone help to resolve this? I will supply more information if needed.? System is running VMS 7.1-2 and has a total of sixGb of memory.-  
 What else?  ? AlphaServer 8400 4-5/625/4, Console V5.5-4 21-JUL-1999 16:27:00>> SROM V3.1, OpenVMS PALcode V1.21-1, Tru64 UNIX PALcode V1.23-16 System Serial = qv, OS = VMS,  7:43:27  April 20, 2000   P00>>>show memory > Set   Node   Size        Base Address         Intlv   Position> ---   ----   ----      -------- --------      -----   --------:  A      5    2048 Mb   00000000 00000000      4-Way      0:  A      6    2048 Mb   00000000 00000000      4-Way      1:  B      7    2048 Mb   00000001 00000000      2-Way      0     Steve Spires VMS System Manager BT/Yellow Pages      [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beL confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has beenP addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute or use this transmission.  L Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee is notH intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received thisF transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.  
 Thank you.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 16:07:13 GMTe$ From: sfm1115@bjc.org (Shawn Malone) Subject: Help With a Lexical1 Message-ID: <38ff2a6f.508113268@news.starnet.net>   B I am trying to get the number of Print Jobs in the Queues that areE pending.  According to the DCL Manual I have I should be able to use:r  $ Variable=F$GETQUI(Pending_Job_Count)  5 When I run this, I get an UnRecognized Keyword Error?   
 Any Ideas?  5 I am trying this on a VAX3100-90 running OpenVMS 6.2.c   Thanks   Shawnb   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Apr 2000 18:23:54 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)  Subject: Re: Help With a Lexical* Message-ID: <38ff2f1a$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  X In article <38ff2a6f.508113268@news.starnet.net>, sfm1115@bjc.org (Shawn Malone) writes:C >I am trying to get the number of Print Jobs in the Queues that aretF >pending.  According to the DCL Manual I have I should be able to use: >-% >Variable=F$GETQUI(Pending_Job_Count)  >m6 >When I run this, I get an UnRecognized Keyword Error?   Obvious. Which Queue ?   >Any Ideas?e  & RTFM or better the example in the help  ' $	dummy = F$GETQUI ("CANCEL_OPERATION")i< $loop:	queue = F$GETQUI ("DISPLAY_QUEUE", "QUEUE_NAME", "*")" $	IF queue .EQS. "" THEN GOTO exitO $	count = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_QUEUE", "PENDING_JOB_COUNT", "*", "FREEZE_CONTEXT")vR $	IF count .NE. 0 THEN WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "Queue ''queue' has ''count' pending jobs" $	GOTO loop  $exit:   -- a< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888r< FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netF <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 12:30:54 -0400i) From: "Robert L. Sudderth" <rsq@ornl.gov>w  Subject: Re: Help With a Lexical( Message-ID: <38FF30BE.51333F27@ornl.gov>   Shawn,   Try:  G         $ variable = f$getqui("DISPLAY_QUEUE","PENDING_JOB_COUNT",<yourc queue name>)   Bob    Shawn Malone wrote:E  D > I am trying to get the number of Print Jobs in the Queues that areG > pending.  According to the DCL Manual I have I should be able to use:C >i& > Variable=F$GETQUI(Pending_Job_Count) > 7 > When I run this, I get an UnRecognized Keyword Error?n >E > Any Ideas? >l7 > I am trying this on a VAX3100-90 running OpenVMS 6.2.n >r > Thanks >  > Shawnu   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 16:45:57 GMT $ From: sfm1115@bjc.org (Shawn Malone)  Subject: Re: Help With a Lexical1 Message-ID: <38ff3413.510581086@news.starnet.net>n  D I had the Queue Defined, just forgot to put it in there.  Thanks for	 the help.i     Shawna    C On 20 Apr 2000 18:23:54 +0200, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)d wrote:  Y >In article <38ff2a6f.508113268@news.starnet.net>, sfm1115@bjc.org (Shawn Malone) writes:.D >>I am trying to get the number of Print Jobs in the Queues that areG >>pending.  According to the DCL Manual I have I should be able to use:  >>& >>Variable=F$GETQUI(Pending_Job_Count) >>7 >>When I run this, I get an UnRecognized Keyword Error?d >s >Obvious. Which Queue ?- >- >>Any Ideas? >-' >RTFM or better the example in the help  >m( >$	dummy = F$GETQUI ("CANCEL_OPERATION")= >$loop:	queue = F$GETQUI ("DISPLAY_QUEUE", "QUEUE_NAME", "*")2# >$	IF queue .EQS. "" THEN GOTO exitcP >$	count = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_QUEUE", "PENDING_JOB_COUNT", "*", "FREEZE_CONTEXT")S >$	IF count .NE. 0 THEN WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "Queue ''queue' has ''count' pending jobs"  >$	GOTO loop >$exit:t >  >-- = >Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651P< >Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888= >FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.net-G ><<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLAN<I >A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"!O >"VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 10:07:52 -0700./ From: Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com>I  Subject: RE: Help With a LexicalM Message-ID: <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213019AEDA5@seantexch.unitedad.com>    Try this format ? Cnt = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_QUEUE","Pending_Job_Count","sys$batch")e   Terry       -----Original Message-----b0 From: 	sfm1115@bjc.org [mailto:sfm1115@bjc.org] & Sent:	Thursday, April 20, 2000 9:07 AM To:	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como Subject:	Help With a Lexical  B I am trying to get the number of Print Jobs in the Queues that areE pending.  According to the DCL Manual I have I should be able to use:3  $ Variable=F$GETQUI(Pending_Job_Count)  5 When I run this, I get an UnRecognized Keyword Error?   
 Any Ideas?  5 I am trying this on a VAX3100-90 running OpenVMS 6.2.s   Thanks   Shawn-   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 12:18:06 GMT,, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)T Subject: Re: How can you find the exact size of a file in bytes using a VMS command?' Message-ID: <2000Apr20.081806.1@eisner>d  ^ In article <956170783.819249@newstest.texas.net>, Steven Whatley <swhatley@blkbox.com> writes: > J > Had a user say, "I've always FTPed ASCII and binary files in binary modeJ > from a Mac for years with no problems."  Yes, FTPing from a Mac seems toE > work fine but Windows/DOS and UNIX use different characters as lineg4 > separators.  The users are finally catching on. :) >   A I had a user repeatedly claim "binary always works".  He only hadnC experience with UNIX and Windows and was used to ignoring the extraoH carriage return his UNIX system showed him when he transfered text filesA from Windows, or using dos2unix/unix2dos utilties to fix them up.e  C At the time we were transfering text files between VMS and UNIX.  I"C should have let him do it his way and then made him edit the files.@  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = Hubble Space Telescope Payload  | Federal Sector, Civil GroupiE  Flight Software Team           | please remove ".aspm" when replyingS   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 16:13:48 +0200-9 From: "John Jenniskens" <j.jenniskens@HumanInference.com>0 Subject: How to use SYS$CREPRC& Message-ID: <EgEL4.295$L51.511@client>  I I am working on a group of server processes that provide services on data L retrieval and validation for customer (client) data. This group of processesK consists of a controlling process (the Message Handler, MH) and one or more J request servers (RS). This system is already working on NT and Unix, and I= am trying to get an OpenVMS (version 71. & 7.2) port running.a  J Since the server process is expected to continue running 'forever', we useK SYS$CREPRC() to start it, with in the last parameter the flag PRC$M_DETACH,nI to make sure it continues running after the starting process and terminalg@ session end. It is my understanding, both from documentation andE observation, that this is the way to accomplish that. Now the requestiH servers have to log in to an Oracle database. For this, a set of logicalJ names is required. These are normally set within the terminal session, butJ not propagated to any (detached) subprocess created by SYS$CREPRC(), sinceI such a process has no CLI context. It should be possible to provide a CLIdF context by giving SYS$CREPRC() SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT.EXE as the image toI start, and provide a DCL script as input to that. Inside this DCL script,sL the Oracle initialization script can be called, followed by the start of the actual request server.H The first problem I encountered is that when I use SYS$CREPRC() with theK PRC$M_DETACH flag, it reports success, but the subprocess is definately notmH started. Without the PRC$M_DETACH flag, it is started and does what it'sL supposed to do, but without, it does report a process id for the subprocess,A but there is no indication at all that the subprocess ran at all.   D A workaround with an additional DCL script that calls the previouslyG mentioned script with RUN/DETACHED does work, but it introduces anotheraC problem. We use the parent-child relationship between MH and its RSgK processes to keep some administration up to date. The parent process id andaL child process id are used for this (quite a Unix approach, but we would likeF to keep it this way if possible). With the additional DCL script, thisJ parent-child relationship is broken, and the involved processes lose track of each others id's.  D So the main issue is: how, if at all, can I call SYS$CREPRC with the: PRC$M_DETACH flag. Or should I chose a different solution?   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Apr 2000 14:50:57 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)" Subject: Re: How to use SYS$CREPRC6 Message-ID: <8dn5gh$ike$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  b In article <EgEL4.295$L51.511@client>, "John Jenniskens" <j.jenniskens@HumanInference.com> writes:I :The first problem I encountered is that when I use SYS$CREPRC() with the L :PRC$M_DETACH flag, it reports success, but the subprocess is definately notI :started. Without the PRC$M_DETACH flag, it is started and does what it'soM :supposed to do, but without, it does report a process id for the subprocess,sB :but there is no indication at all that the subprocess ran at all.     Check the accounting logs.  C   check for process-private or otherwise inaccessable logical name e   definitions, symbols, etc.  4   Consider using a log file for the created process.  C   Specify a DECwindows workstation device (WSA-class) as the outputc1   for the created process, and use a debug image.E  C   Specify a DECterm (via CREATE/TERMINAL, DECwTermPort, etc) as therB   input and output for the created process, and use a debug image.  2   Use the DBG$* logical names and a debug image...  ?   Make *sure* you create the process with a full list of quotas B   specified.  (For best results, do not allow a quota argument to A   default on OpenVMS, as you will be dependent on whatever quota  D   defaults have been established for the system, and these settings D   may or may not be adequate for your particular application needs.)  ; :We use the parent-child relationship between MH and its RSsL :processes to keep some administration up to date. The parent process id andM :child process id are used for this (quite a Unix approach, but we would like G :to keep it this way if possible). With the additional DCL script, thiswK :parent-child relationship is broken, and the involved processes lose trackw :of each others id's.   E   There's something else going on, as simply having a process running C   DCL does not affect the process ID and the job tree -- whether ormE   not a process has DCL loaded matters not to the maintenance and theT1   operation of the process IDs in the job tree...h  G   The Master PID is one option here, depending on what you are up to...eF   This would allow any process in the job tree to get the parent ID...  E :So the main issue is: how, if at all, can I call SYS$CREPRC with the ; :PRC$M_DETACH flag. Or should I chose a different solution?-  D   Works fine.  Simple example of a DCL subprocess create attached...C   (You would want/need to add the "detach" flag to this example...)   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com      #pragma module srh_creprc "V1.0"   /* **++ **  FACILITY:  examplesc ** **  MODULE DESCRIPTION:m **; **      performs a lib$spawn, but doesn't need a cli around  ** **  AUTHORS: ** **      steve hoffmano ** **  CREATION DATE:  2-jul-1993 ** **  DESIGN ISSUES: **B **      while this routine performs the indicated task of spawningA **	a subprocess, note that use of the sys$sndjbc() system servicei= **	to submit the specified procedure may also be appropriate.i ** **  MODIFICATION HISTORY:b **2 **      19-Apr-2000, Hoffman, updated for Compaq C ** **      {@tbs@}... **-- */   #include <descrip.h> #include <pqldef.h>r #include <ssdef.h> #include <starlet.h> #include <stddef.h>  #include <stdio.h> #include <stsdef.h>b  3 int srh_creprc( struct dsc$descriptor_s *cmdspec_a,h'     struct dsc$descriptor_s *logspec_a,      unsigned long int *pid_a,v'     struct dsc$descriptor_s *prcnam_a )h     {t     unsigned long int retstat;#     struct dsc$descriptor *logspec;t"     struct dsc$descriptor *prcnam;"     $DESCRIPTOR( nla0, "_NLA0:" );7     $DESCRIPTOR( loginout, "SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT.EXE" );n     $DESCRIPTOR( srh, "SRH" );     unsigned long int *pid;e      unsigned long int pid_bogus;!     unsigned long int baspri = 4;a!     unsigned long int mbxunt = 0;c     unsigned long int uic = 0;"     unsigned long int stsflgs = 0;
     struct 	{ 	unsigned char pql_code; 	unsigned long int pql_value;a
 	} pql[] = 	    {$ 	    {	PQL$_ASTLM,        600	    },$ 	    {	PQL$_BIOLM,        100	    },% 	    {	PQL$_BYTLM,        131072   },r" 	    {	PQL$_CPULM,        0	    },$ 	    {	PQL$_DIOLM,        100	    },# 	    {	PQL$_FILLM,        50	    },i% 	    {	PQL$_PGFLQUOTA,    40960    },l# 	    {	PQL$_PRCLM,        16	    },n$ 	    {	PQL$_TQELM,        600	    },$ 	    {	PQL$_WSDEFAULT,    512	    },% 	    {	PQL$_WSQUOTA,      2048	    },-$ 	    {	PQL$_ENQLM,        600	    },% 	    {	PQL$_WSEXTENT,     4096	    },h% 	    {	PQL$_JTQUOTA,      4096	    },y! 	    {	PQL$_LISTEND,      0	    }  	    };        /*<     **	Allow the log file specification and the process name%     **	specification to be defaulted.0     */F     logspec = ((int) logspec_a) ? (void *) logspec_a : (void *) &nla0;B     prcnam = ((int) prcnam_a) ? (void *) prcnam_a : (void *) &srh;-     pid = ((int) pid_a) ? pid_a : &pid_bogus;,       /*$     **	Perform the process creation.     */	'     retstat = sys$creprc( pid,) 	&loginout, cmdspec_a, logspec, &nla0, 0,m- 	pql, prcnam, baspri, uic, mbxunt, stsflgs );h       return retstat;        }p main()     {m     unsigned long int retstat;,     $DESCRIPTOR( log, "SYS$MANAGER:X.LOG" );0     $DESCRIPTOR( cmd, "SYS$MANAGER:LOGIN.COM" );     3     retstat = srh_creprc( &cmd, &log, NULL, NULL );S     return SS$_NORMAL;     }i   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:08:20 -0400 # From: John Vottero <John@MVPSI.com>V" Subject: RE: How to use SYS$CREPRCD Message-ID: <C15945A9D9EFCF11BA8B08002BBF1CCC0CD6C2@berry.mvpsi.com>  E Your approach will work.  It sounds like the process being created is D immediately dieing.  Make sure that accounting is enabled then do a:  0 $ ACCOUNT/FULL/IDENT=pid-of-the-detached-process  H to see why the process failed.  It's likely that it can't open sys$input and/or sys$output.     > -----Original Message-----@ > From: John Jenniskens [mailto:j.jenniskens@HumanInference.com]) > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 10:14 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come  > Subject: How to use SYS$CREPRC >  > ; > I am working on a group of server processes that provide 0 > services on data< > retrieval and validation for customer (client) data. This  > group of processes> > consists of a controlling process (the Message Handler, MH)  > and one or morer= > request servers (RS). This system is already working on NT i > and Unix, and I-? > am trying to get an OpenVMS (version 71. & 7.2) port running.  > ; > Since the server process is expected to continue running 0 > 'forever', we use @ > SYS$CREPRC() to start it, with in the last parameter the flag  > PRC$M_DETACH, ? > to make sure it continues running after the starting process - > and terminalB > session end. It is my understanding, both from documentation andG > observation, that this is the way to accomplish that. Now the requeste@ > servers have to log in to an Oracle database. For this, a set  > of logical@ > names is required. These are normally set within the terminal  > session, but9 > not propagated to any (detached) subprocess created by n > SYS$CREPRC(), sincea> > such a process has no CLI context. It should be possible to  > provide a CLIeH > context by giving SYS$CREPRC() SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT.EXE as the image to@ > start, and provide a DCL script as input to that. Inside this 
 > DCL script,L> > the Oracle initialization script can be called, followed by  > the start of the > actual request server.5 > The first problem I encountered is that when I use a > SYS$CREPRC() with the ? > PRC$M_DETACH flag, it reports success, but the subprocess is i > definately not< > started. Without the PRC$M_DETACH flag, it is started and  > does what it's? > supposed to do, but without, it does report a process id for - > the subprocess,2C > but there is no indication at all that the subprocess ran at all.c > F > A workaround with an additional DCL script that calls the previously7 > mentioned script with RUN/DETACHED does work, but it j > introduces anotherE > problem. We use the parent-child relationship between MH and its RS ? > processes to keep some administration up to date. The parent b > process id and= > child process id are used for this (quite a Unix approach, e > but we would likewH > to keep it this way if possible). With the additional DCL script, this8 > parent-child relationship is broken, and the involved  > processes lose track > of each others id's. > F > So the main issue is: how, if at all, can I call SYS$CREPRC with the< > PRC$M_DETACH flag. Or should I chose a different solution? >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 17:18:59 GMTO2 From: kilgallen@eisner.decus.org (Larry Kilgallen)1 Subject: Infoserver CD-R (was: Verify of Backups)n' Message-ID: <2000Apr20.131859.1@eisner>8  Y In article <38FF2B85.5B3B13F1@ccinet.ab.ca>, Gord Coulman <gcoulman@ccinet.ab.ca> writes:sX > Regarding your suggestion of using an Infoserver to create VMS-readable CDs, I have an] > Infoserver 150 that I no longer use.  It had a tape drive, a CDROM, and a 1GB internal disk2   An Infoserver 1000 is required.-  ^ > on it.  I don't really like the idea of dusting it off, because wouldn't I require Decnet toM > use it?  I only run TCP/IP and really don't want to implement Decnet again.w  A Infoservers do not use DECnet at all.  They speak LAD/LAST acrossJ Ethernet to VMS.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Apr 2000 16:25:29 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)! Subject: Re: Mozilla M15's out...L* Message-ID: <38ff1359$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  k In article <8dks5o$kg2$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:nX >In article <38fde767$1@news.kapsch.co.at>, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:Q >:MOZILLA is at least available on OpenVMS, but why isn't the NETSCAPE beta, too? O >:I can't really follow the arguments, that NETSCAPE didn't release the code...D >3L >  The Mozilla beta is effectively part of the Netscape beta process -- the I >  Netscape browser is directly based on the Mozilla browser, and we are 1I >  tracking the Mozilla updates, and I expect this will be useful as part / >  of getting over onto the Netscape browser...c  J I know this (and yes, M15 is newer than NETSCAPE V6 beta), but the word isA "there is a new NETSCAPE (beta) browser and again not for VMS..."eH And I think, this is not a technical issue, but a marketing issue again.  L >                                                 I would expect to see the M >  Mozilla browser stabilize before the Netscape browser stabilizes...  (And $K >  no, I don't have a schedule for this, as I have learned not to even try E( >  to predict schedules in this area...)   I second this.   -- c< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888u< FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netF <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Apr 2000 15:05:11 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)! Subject: Re: Mozilla M15's out... 6 Message-ID: <8dn6b7$j2c$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  W In article <38ff1359$1@news.kapsch.co.at>, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:eK :I know this (and yes, M15 is newer than NETSCAPE V6 beta), but the word is1B :"there is a new NETSCAPE (beta) browser and again not for VMS..."I :And I think, this is not a technical issue, but a marketing issue again.a  G   "But Sir, would you want the next generation -- a rather more recent [E   version -- of the web browser engine used in the Netscape beta?  OrnH   would you prefer to use an older one?"  (Sometimes I scare myself. :-)  nN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Apr 2000 18:05:49 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)! Subject: Re: Mozilla M15's out... * Message-ID: <38ff2add$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  k In article <8dn6b7$j2c$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:cX >In article <38ff1359$1@news.kapsch.co.at>, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:L >:I know this (and yes, M15 is newer than NETSCAPE V6 beta), but the word isC >:"there is a new NETSCAPE (beta) browser and again not for VMS..."dJ >:And I think, this is not a technical issue, but a marketing issue again. >TH >  "But Sir, would you want the next generation -- a rather more recent F >  version -- of the web browser engine used in the Netscape beta?  OrI >  would you prefer to use an older one?"  (Sometimes I scare myself. :-)a  I Yup. But this only works if a VMS friend answers, and surely not when twor* or more uninformed PHB talk to each other.  H And with the M15 problems I already mentioned, I keep with M14 anyway...   -- t< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888n< FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netF <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Apr 2000 18:33:54 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)! Subject: Re: Mozilla M15's out...0* Message-ID: <38ff3172$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  W In article <38FDF20B.F9EEAF3F@theblakes.com>, Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> writes:r >Tim Shoppa wrote:E >> It's good news that it's out, but why is the VMS release 30 Mbytess: >> while the other (same version) releases are 5-7 Mbytes? >nZ >For a start, all the images are linked /traceback. This helps when debugging but it has aA >cost. Its surprising just how much bigger this makes the images.i > ; >The OpenVMS kit includes GTK+. The other platforms do not.   - What does this mean for us uninformed users ?t   Ok, I try...8 GTK+ is some of kind of a [graphics] tool kit. Correct ?* It is a requirement for MOZILLA. Correct ?I On VMS, GTK+ is not available standalone or VMS users are more uninformedaH than on the other platforms and so the GTK+ gets installed automatically1 in the background for and with MOZILLA. Correct ?c5 Why GTK+ doesn't get a separate (PCSI) product then ?e  7 [please don't feel offended, I only want to understand]b  G >The other kits are in zip format. If you zip the OpenVMS PCSI file itsI@ >only 17 Mbytes instead of 30Mb for the self-extracting version.  E This raises again the question, why DCXEXE ? Use ZIP or [UN]ZIPSFX...r   -- i< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888l< FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netF <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 15:07:29 GMTt- From: goathunter@PROCESS.COM (Hunter Goatley) 3 Subject: Re: OpenVMS mail question: Attached files?e+ Message-ID: <38ff1cd9.8146323@news.wku.edu>u  B On Fri, 14 Apr 2000 14:19:19 +0200, "T de Wet" <thys@it.sun.ac.za> wrote:  K >Alternately: Any other mailers availbale for OpenVMS that would be able top >send attached files?r >s@ The funtionality is limited to one file, but with MultiNet's and9 TCPware's SMTP implementation, you can send one file as acD base64-encoded MIME attachment.  Even with the limitation, it can be very handy.  It's invoked via:  -     MAIL> send/noedit/foreign/type=1 file.exta     Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/s8 <goathunter@PROCESS.COM>     http://www2.wku.edu/hunter/   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:49:16 GMTu, From: kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org (Bob Kaplow)* Subject: Re: Scheduler & PSDC alternatives' Message-ID: <2000Apr20.094916.1@eisner>"  O In article <38F6ACCD.D4BC0517@tmisnet.com>, Koloth <koloth@tmisnet.com> writes:cO > Compaq has a product called Capacity Planner and PAWS.  We looked at it for asL > replacement for DECps.  It may me more than you wnat but the collector andI > reducer did a lot of DECps DC and DECps PA did.  And the cost was less.  > R > Also these guys work near the OpenVMS guys so that they can get good information+ > when needing information on O/S questionsc  I Actually, the guy developing the new tool is here in the Chicago area. InaB fact, for about 8 of my years at DEC, we sat in adjacent cubicles.   	Bob Kaplow	  E SPAM:	spamrecycle@ChooseYourmail.com	uce@ftc.gov	postmaster@127.0.0.1e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:44:32 -0700 7 From: "Arthur E. Ragosta" <ragosta@merlin.arc.nasa.gov> * Subject: Re: Scheduler & PSDC alternatives3 Message-ID: <38FF25E0.E69C74B6@merlin.arc.nasa.gov>e   Bob Kaplow wrote:.   >    ...u  D > I'd like nothing better than to have all of these back, and on DeQ& > maintenance. And to tell CA to ..... >e  > Actually, the COO of CA was interviewed by Infoworld last weekA and his response (his ONLY response) to a question about frictione7 with 'industry partners' was "It's an overrated story."l   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:34:51 -0400a' From: Paul <pmosteika@evms.zko.dec.com>iG Subject: Re: Sending MIME attachments in OpenVMS 7.1-H1 and TCPware 5.3d0 Message-ID: <38FECF3A.37361789@evms.zko.dec.com>   Dave,e  D That depends on what you want to do. OpenVMS MIME allows reading andA composing of MIME messages. It is a separate utility that was notr> integrated with MAIL. Typically a message is received by MAIL,6 extracted, then opened and read with the MIME utility.  F There were several problems fixed in MIME V1.32, including the one youB see with the NEW command. I suggest obtaining this latest version.  G There's an overview section and "getting started" that may provide somedB help. I have added to the HELP file in later versions, and furtherB documentation is needed. The OpenVMS User's Manual and the OpenVMSG System Manager's Manual Chapter 5, but these are being updated as well.l   Here's some help:     
 MIME> sho verk MIME Version: V1.32l  f MIME> new paul.msg= ... places you in the editor to add simple text in a message.a   	-or-   	 MIME> new # _Input Message File Name: paul.msg e 	n  2 ...Then you might ADD an attachment such as a .JPG  ; MIME> add /enc=base64 /cont="image/gif" VMS-SHARK-SMALL.GIF   ! ... List the parts or attachments    MIME> list	  Message Headers:&         Content-Type:  multipart/mixed3         Content-Transfer-Encoding:  7bit/8Bit ASCIIo   Attachment: 1H5         Content-Type:  text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1:$         Content-Disposition:  inline3         Content-Transfer-Encoding:  7bit/8Bit ASCII    Attachment: 2           Content-Type:  image/gif(         Content-Disposition:  attachment*         Content-Transfer-Encoding:  Base64  & ... then you might read the message...  
 MIME> READ  # ... however, you need to have a GIFqC     viewer and it needs to be defined in the MIME$MAILCAP.DAT file.e    H The next few sections include a "Getting Started", some MIME background, anduC an example of a MIME$MAILCAP.DAT file (that customizes MIME to yourr system).           Getting Startedd     ---------------a  F     Extract the MIME message into a file for use with the MIME utility  "         Use MAIL> EXTRACT/NOHEADER  @     Define a symbol to execute the MIME image or run it directly  (         $ MIME :== $ SYS$SYSTEM:MIME.EXE  H     Invoke MIME with the file name or use the MIME OPEN command followed by     the filename:n           $ MIME         MIME> open filex.x  B     Use the LIST command to see the file's contents or attachments (whichE     can be extracted), or typically you would use the READ command to; view     the messageg           MIME> read  %     There's also online help for MIME            MIME> help  F     If it cannot be read, make sure the MIME$MAILCAP.DAT that you mustF     create, specifies that the particular MIME mail type can be viewed andI.     by which application. Refer to the section           "What's a MAILCAP?"U     What's MIME?     ------------  :     MIME stands for multipurpose internet mail extensions.  A     MIME, introduced in RFC 1341 in ~1992, simply allows text and  non-textG     parts of messages to be read or extracted, without loss of content.h  C     MIME encapsulates a message body into a structured format using  simple@     plain text encoding methods. This allows the message to pass thorough>     various mail programs, networks, and transports/protocols,
 unchanged.  H     MIME can combine different parts or types (called attachments), such asB     audio, video, executable, and text parts, to form a multi-part message.>     If the user's system cannot directly read or display these attachments,F     MIME allows the user to extract the attachment so it can be viewedG     later, or on another system. MIME also allows alternative types fora the C     same attachment, (such as TEXT, and HTML). This allows a user aN choiceC     of how to display the message, given certain system applicatione     limitations.        ,     What's a MAILCAP?       MIME$MAILCAP.DAT     ------------------  B     MIME mail messages (and attachments or mail message parts) are<     described as having a content type and subtype, such as:               image/gifE  B     This means that this attachment can be displayed with an image viewerB     program, such as NETSCAPE or XV, that are external to the MIME utility.  B     MIME uses a MIME$MAILCAP.DAT file to determine which types and subtypesH     that can be viewed, and the application (and its command) to call in!     order to READ the attachment.-  H     Note that in the example MIME$MAILCAP.DAT file that follows, most ofG     the "helper" applications also have a symbol defined (elsewhere) toX     invoke them, such as:H  F         NETSCAPE :== $SYS$MANAGER:NETSCAPE-EXPORT-VAX-V303C4R-GOLD.EXE       # Comment lines begin with '#' #e # [SYSMGR]MIME$MAILCAP.DAT #   - also -- # SYS$LOGIN:MIME$MAILCAP.DAT  (user specific)s # ) #       Created 17-Mar-1999 Paul Mosteika  # 9 # NETSCAPE handles .HTML .HTM (and others if you specify)s # ----------------------------4 text/html; netscape -remote "openURL(%s,new-window)" #& # A continuation line '\'  #c text/htm; \p     netscape -remote \     "openURL(%s,new-window)" # . # X-View handles images (* = wildcard subtype) # ---------------------  image/*; xv %s image/bmp; xv %s #t # CDA Viewer handles DDIF, PS, # ----------------------------6 # application/ddif; view/select=x_display/FORMAT=PS %s4 # application/ps; view/select=x_display/FORMAT=PS %s # ( # X-PDF handles portable document format( # -------------------------------------- application/pdf; XPDF %s #s# # In-Line Text (with scrolled text)h # ------------! message/rfc822; TYPE/PAGE=SAVE %st       			Regards,b   			Paula   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:55:20 +0000h$ From: Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk4 Subject: Upgraded (hardware) 8400 System not booting/ Message-ID: <002568C7.00521230.00@quegw01.btyp>s   cc:s bcc:= Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plazat  + Upgraded (hardware) 8400 System not bootingt  	 Dear All,   L We have just upgraded an 8400 replacing the existing single CPU with two newL ones, and adding another 2 GB of memory. When trying to boot the system, the following occurs;i   jumping to bootstrap codet   CPU 0 halted   halt code = 2r   kernel stack not valid haltu   PC = fffffffffffffffc,  N I suspect this may be a memory related error, but haven't seen this particular message before.e  J Can anyone help to resolve this? I will supply more information if needed.? System is running VMS 7.1-2 and has a total of sixGb of memory.   
 What else?  ? AlphaServer 8400 4-5/625/4, Console V5.5-4 21-JUL-1999 16:27:00s> SROM V3.1, OpenVMS PALcode V1.21-1, Tru64 UNIX PALcode V1.23-16 System Serial = qv, OS = VMS,  7:43:27  April 20, 2000   P00>>>show memoryo> Set   Node   Size        Base Address         Intlv   Position> ---   ----   ----      -------- --------      -----   --------:  A      5    2048 Mb   00000000 00000000      4-Way      0:  A      6    2048 Mb   00000000 00000000      4-Way      1:  B      7    2048 Mb   00000001 00000000      2-Way      0     Steve Spires VMS System Manager BT/Yellow Pagess     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beL confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has beenP addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute or use this transmission.  L Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee is notH intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received thisF transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.  
 Thank you.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Apr 2000 17:20:09 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>I8 Subject: Re: Upgraded (hardware) 8400 System not bootingH Message-ID: <y4hfcw240m.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  M I would try again after removing the newly installed memory. At that stage, a2L kernel stack not valid fault can really only happen because of memory that'sN somehow not working (could also be a hardware configuration error - don't know the rules for 8400s).o   	Jan   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 15:50:15 GMTf. From: "Curtis Rempel" <curtis.rempel@home.com>8 Subject: Re: Upgraded (hardware) 8400 System not booting: Message-ID: <XGFL4.73876$W5.688472@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com>  L Are the new CPU's EV6 variants?  We had a similar problem turning our 8200'sL into GS60's with EV6 CPU's, you need an ECO kit so VMS can recognize the newI hardware, can't remember off hand which one, not at the office right now. K You're right about booting fromt he 7.2-1 CD - it has the appropriate senseoI about the new hardware.  You'll probably want to up the firmware to 5.5-6s also.t   Curtis  1 <Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk> wrote in messageE) news:002568C7.00521230.00@quegw01.btyp...  > cc:h > bcc:? > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza  > - > Upgraded (hardware) 8400 System not booting  >e > Dear All,  > J > We have just upgraded an 8400 replacing the existing single CPU with two newnJ > ones, and adding another 2 GB of memory. When trying to boot the system, ther > following occurs;i >r > jumping to bootstrap code- >  > CPU 0 halted >   halt code = 2  >   kernel stack not valid halt  >   PC = fffffffffffffffc  >.E > I suspect this may be a memory related error, but haven't seen this@
 particular > message before.n >lL > Can anyone help to resolve this? I will supply more information if needed.A > System is running VMS 7.1-2 and has a total of sixGb of memory.o >t > What else? > A > AlphaServer 8400 4-5/625/4, Console V5.5-4 21-JUL-1999 16:27:00 @ > SROM V3.1, OpenVMS PALcode V1.21-1, Tru64 UNIX PALcode V1.23-18 > System Serial = qv, OS = VMS,  7:43:27  April 20, 2000 >g > P00>>>show memorya@ > Set   Node   Size        Base Address         Intlv   Position@ > ---   ----   ----      -------- --------      -----   --------< >  A      5    2048 Mb   00000000 00000000      4-Way      0< >  A      6    2048 Mb   00000000 00000000      4-Way      1< >  B      7    2048 Mb   00000001 00000000      2-Way      0 >e >g > Steve Spires > VMS System Manager > BT/Yellow Pagese >i >- > [Information] -- PostMaster:F > This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beI > confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has- beenD > addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce,
 distribute orn > use this transmission. >nJ > Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee is not2J > intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received thisH > transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message. >c > Thank you. >m >i   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 17:07:38 GMTt( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>8 Subject: Re: Upgraded (hardware) 8400 System not booting' Message-ID: <FtBrKr.L83@spcuna.spc.edu>S  & Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk writes:N > We have just upgraded an 8400 replacing the existing single CPU with two newN > ones, and adding another 2 GB of memory. When trying to boot the system, the > following occurs;r  J   I bet you upgraded to a newer type of CPU. I don't recall if you need toH update the console firmware, apply a VMS remedial kit, or both. However,L you should be able to get this info from your support channel. I don't think you have a hardware problem.  - 	Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.comi5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USA4   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:55:55 GMT1/ From: "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net> / Subject: VAX CI storage vs served fibre channel G Message-ID: <L%DL4.25856$WF.1002460@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>i  L I know Fibre channel is faster than CI, but can someone give me a subjective* description of how much faster and better?  % My current configuration consists of:mE  T hree CI based VAX 7860s (each with four CIXCDS),  FDDI and 10baseT  EthernetL  One Alhpa 8400 with four CIPCAs, FDDI, 10baseT and a bunch of SCSI adapters0  One Alpha 2100 5/300 with  dual Faster Ethernet  L The three VAXes and the Alpha 8400 are attached to four Star couplers with a0 farm full of HSJ52s and (ugh) MTI Stingray IIIs.  J I am trying to decide if I should replace the MTI Stingrays with HSJ82s so* that my VAXes can have direct connections,J or should I get Fibre Channel adapters for the Alphas and connect into our! developing Compaq SAN that we are I installing for our Unix systems (Tru64 and Solaris).  (Actually, the data H would be moved from the HSJ52s to the new storage, and the data from the( StingRays would be moved to the HSJ52s).  K Our eventual goal is to get rid of the VAXes and move all processing to therI Alphas, which would mean Fibre Channel would be the only way to go, but IfH will have to make sure I don't hinder the VAX performance for at least a year or so.e   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Apr 2000 10:09:47 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>t Subject: Re: Verify of BackupsH Message-ID: <y41z41xkfo.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  4 hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  < > (I feel older having just written this posting, too... :-)  L What, no 7-track 166 (IIRC) up to 800 bpi drives? They were on their way outM when I started working such things...Or those nice DECtape IIIs for bootstrapr6 when the in-core bootstrap became corrupted somehow...   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 20:31:57 +1200 * From: "Ryan C. Price" <pricerc@ihug.co.nz> Subject: Re: Verify of Backups* Message-ID: <8dmf9v$n9i$1@news.ihug.co.nz>  F It's been a while since I've managed a VMS system, but I have actually usedC a separate /COMPARE phase rather than /VERIFY, but that was on 6250SC magtape, where we used 2 drives, and /VERIFY would rewind each tapew anduE verify it, increasing backup time by the cost of the rewind. By using>
 a separate9 /COMPARE pass, we reduced the backup window considerably.w  F Just to make it more interesting, in the environment this happened in, theeB operators fired the /COMPARE off as a separate job, and the backupB and verify would run concurrently (2 drives each), after the first couple( of tapes had finished their backup pass.  ? In later years, I had a 7-cartridge DLT stacker, and a separater /COMPAREE wouldn't work, since I no longer had operators around to 'rewind' the@ stack.3 of tapes, fortunately this wasn't a problem for me.-   /Ryan-  7 "Malcolm Dunnett" <dunnett@mala.bc.ca> wrote in messagew& news:DldZBxkVuL3O@malvm2.mala.bc.ca... > In articleA <F02D5A46B8AED311BE4F0090279FA2401E831C@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>, ? >    John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk> writes:t >mB > > Using /VERIFY tells you nothing at all about whether a restore	 operation D > > will be successful. The examples given of accidental overwriting of tapes bytD > > using /REWIND every time (!!) or by mounting the wrong tapes are only tooA > > real to anyone who has had to do regular backups, often undera	 pressure.i > >aB >    Rather than use /VERIFY I do all the savesets first, then useE > /COMPARE to check them all after all the sets are created. This not  only? > catches errors such as /REWIND overwriting savesets but it is		 generallyp$ > faster and saves wear on the tape. >p   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 20:48:17 +1200 * From: "Ryan C. Price" <pricerc@ihug.co.nz> Subject: Re: Verify of Backups* Message-ID: <8dmg8j$qhb$1@news.ihug.co.nz>  ) Re various responses to my previous post..  F I stated that the only way to test a backup is to scan the whole tape.D I.e. read every bit of data on it to make sure that you can read it,A and compare it with the bits on disk that they represent, just tof
 make sure.  D I didn't suggest that /VERIFY is a good/only/best way of doing this.) In fact, I didn't mention /VERIFY at all.r  @ My point was merely that it's pointless to make a backup without checking it.  ; There are many ways to achieve this, of which BACKUP/VERIFY:3 is one. BACKUP/COMPARE is another, possibly better.r  B Restoring and comparing the restored backup with the original dataD on disk is undoubtedly the best way of doing it, but few people haveF the luxury of sufficient spare disk space time to do this during theirE nightly backup window. Besides, this still doesn't guarantee that thet6 tape will still be legible in a week when you need it.  E I got the impression that the author of the original post was lookingeD for a 'shortcut' (bad choice of phrase I guess, if he was interestedA in cutting corners he wouldn't come here for advice), I just want > him to realise that he has to test his backups. Relying on theB reliability of BACKUP and DLT is flattering to those technologies,F but not necessarily a good thing; it is exactly those two technologiesD which closed the factory I mentioned, where no verification was done in order to save time.   /Ryani   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Apr 2000 07:49:52 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)e Subject: Re: Verify of Backups0 Message-ID: <8dmcr0$kc0$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  [ In article <8dks5l$53i$4@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:rG >In article <2000Apr19.114534.1@eisner>, kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org (Bobd >Kaplow) writes: I >  >> What is DDS?  > H >Digital Data Storage---DDS1, DDS2, DDS3 refer to different "levels" of G >DAT tapes.  Time to post my old list of questions again, as they were t >never ALL answered: >tJ >I'm looking for a good description of the interrelationships between the & >following things regarding DAT tapes: >y >   o  exact TLZ number.  6 Not that familiar with these. Others will know better.  4 >   o  SCSI1, SCSI2, SCSI3, narrow, wide, fast, slow  L I thought I explained this already some weeks ago. The former three refer toG the command set implemented to control a drive. Narrow => uses 8 bit toMJ transfer data, wide => uses 16 bit (thus, data transfer is twice as fast).M Fast vs. slow => the very meaning of these words. Thus, a "fast wide" disk is M the fastest possibility, but there are "fast narrow" disks as well. Typicallyr$ "fast wide" drives understand SCSI3.   >   o  DDS1, DDS2, DDS3 etcn  M Methods for storing data on DAT tapes. DDS-1 is the oldest mode, DDS-4 is thei< newest. A DDS-3 drive is usually able to read older formats.   >   o  /MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTIONe  C A VMS-Qualifier to request the drive to use its internal method for E compression. This works only for some drives (especially the TLZ...).I  # >   o  length of the tape in metersp  N 60m, 90m, 120m, 125m & 150m . DDS-1 is able to use 60m and 90m. DDS-2 will use4 up to 120m, DDS-3 supports 125m and DDS-4 uses 150m.  < >   o  capacity of the tape in GB and what this really means   DDS-1 60m  =>  1.3 GBs DDS-1 90m  =>  2   GB' DDS-2 120m =>  4   GBt DDS-3 125m => 12   GB- DDS-4 150m => 20   GBo  B This is the amount of bytes you may store on such a tape. It is anN approximation but these numbers are somewhat guaranteed. If the drive performsN a compression on the data you may typically save twice as much data on a tape.> This, of course, depends heavily on the type of data you have.  + >   o  compression in the tape drive itself   N Something that the drive does to save data more efficiently. The host computerN doesn't need to bother. The compression method is part of the DDS-standard. SoL a tape written with compression enabled on a HP drive can still be read on a Sony drive.e  G >   o  increase in size of a BACKUP saveset compared to the size of theE >      stuff on disk  L Depends on the backup block size and the like. I don't have numbers at hand.   >   o  INITIALIZE/DENSITY   J Makes no sense with DATs. It is used on old 9-track tapes as these support, various densities (e.g. 1600bpi or 6250bpi).   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann   H -----------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +------------ http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/english/menue.html -----------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 10:07:49 +0100 8 From: John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Verify of BackupsL Message-ID: <F02D5A46B8AED311BE4F0090279FA2401E831F@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>  0 > Besides, this still doesn't guarantee that the7 >tape will still be legible in a week when you need it.=  C This is the crucial factor in the whole backup scenario. Unless youeH undertake restore operations from time to time you'll never know whetherG your backup is usable or not. It's rather like an insurance policy: youl: don't really know how good it is until you have to use it.  D Unless you're prepared to do restores from time to time to check theE viability of your backups, especially after system upgrades, hardwarehK changes, etc , you may be wasting your time worrying about anything else ton do with the backups.   John    B Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.ukH Post: Nuclear and Astrophysics Laboratory, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UKA Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:22:29 +1200 * From: "Ryan C. Price" <pricerc@ihug.co.nz> Subject: Re: Verify of Backups* Message-ID: <8dmi8n$14k$1@news.ihug.co.nz>   > ..D > >you can't trust your backup unless you've tested it. The only way, > >to test it is to scan the whole tape. ... > D > I disagree.  The only way to test your backup is to restore it andD > check that the restored disk/files is/are correct.  Short of that, any0@ > number of things -- Backup utility, media reliability, storage procedures,e  > etc. -- can and will go wrong.  B How does this disagree with my statement, besides the fact that my? statement is perhaps incomplete ? But I was really referring tod checking theD integrity of the data on the tape, not the whole process, which is aB (not completely) different discussion to (my possibly incorrect or
 incomplete2 interpretation of) the point of the original post.   >h@ > As for /VERIFY -- if push came to shove I would probably cover
 myself andB > advise  to use it.  However, this option exists because the tape drivesD > typically used for backup a decade or two ago were not paricularly	 reliable.tB > They would sometimes report a write operation completed, but not write E > anything readable; /VERIFY caught this.  Today's backup devices areS much= > more robust.  The need for and value of /VERIFY is reduced.  >   > We'll have to agree to disagree here, if you're advocating not checking the& contents of a backup you've just made.  F Your argument on reliability doesn't wash with me either. I will never trust E any backup medium I haven't verified/compared with the original data.0 SureE DLT is better than DDS, but it sure ain't fail-proof. I won't risk my  jobsA or my company by relying on the 'reliability' of the tape medium.o  @ There's no such thing as a tape drive or tape that doesn't fail. Murphy's lawD says that when you need to restore, you won't be able to. I have yet toA find any technology that has been able to fight off Murphy's law. 	 Verifying B a backup immediately after performing the backup (using /VERIFY orC some other mechanism), at least reduces the risk considerably, withs very littlenC extra effort, and the (I believe small) cost of an increased backupo window.-  ; > The need for and value of periodic test restores remains. : > This also provides a test for your procedures to recover' > any input lost since the last backup.w >)   /RyantB (ex VMS system manager and StorageWorks consultant for DEC/Compaq)   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Apr 2000 10:05:24 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) Subject: RE: Verify of Backups. Message-ID: <8dmkp4$mgs$1@info.service.rug.nl>  Y In article <Mpo5ZUXvCFvb@malvm2.mala.bc.ca>, dunnett@mala.bc.ca (Malcolm Dunnett) writes:   A >    It depends on the tape drive and how BACKUP gets back to the:I > start of the saveset. I used to use /VERIFY and I found that BACKUP wasgK > rewinding the tape and then skipping forward to the start of the saveset,nF > so every save set in front of the one you wanted to verify had to beK > passed over along the way - slowing things down and creating extra passesiE > over the tape. On some drives ( such as the old Exabyte 8200s ) the H > "file skip" function got executed at read speed, so it could literally$ > take hours to start a verify pass.  E OK, so only a problem if there is more than one save set on the tape?-   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Apr 2000 10:10:26 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) Subject: Re: Verify of Backups. Message-ID: <8dml2i$mgs$2@info.service.rug.nl>  0 In article <8dmcr0$kc0$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>,6 gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) writes:   5 > I thought I explained this already some weeks ago.    : Right, but it was easier to just repost the whole thing...   The former three refer tonI > the command set implemented to control a drive. Narrow => uses 8 bit tocL > transfer data, wide => uses 16 bit (thus, data transfer is twice as fast).O > Fast vs. slow => the very meaning of these words. Thus, a "fast wide" disk is O > the fastest possibility, but there are "fast narrow" disks as well. Typicallyo& > "fast wide" drives understand SCSI3. >  > >   o  DDS1, DDS2, DDS3 etco > O > Methods for storing data on DAT tapes. DDS-1 is the oldest mode, DDS-4 is the-> > newest. A DDS-3 drive is usually able to read older formats.  G ...but is there any relationship between the SCSI levels and DDS level?   ! > >   o  /MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTIONe > E > A VMS-Qualifier to request the drive to use its internal method for G > compression. This works only for some drives (especially the TLZ...).0  4 Should one always use it?  Does it slow things down?   > DDS-1 60m  =>  1.3 GBa > DDS-1 90m  =>  2   GB2 > DDS-2 120m =>  4   GB0 > DDS-3 125m => 12   GBg > DDS-4 150m => 20   GBy > D > This is the amount of bytes you may store on such a tape. It is anP > approximation but these numbers are somewhat guaranteed. If the drive performsP > a compression on the data you may typically save twice as much data on a tape.@ > This, of course, depends heavily on the type of data you have.  ; Why is the table above non-linear even without compression?a  - > >   o  compression in the tape drive itselfs > P > Something that the drive does to save data more efficiently. The host computerP > doesn't need to bother. The compression method is part of the DDS-standard. SoN > a tape written with compression enabled on a HP drive can still be read on a
 > Sony drive.   A But perhaps not on an older drive which doesn't have compression?8  L > Makes no sense with DATs. It is used on old 9-track tapes as these support. > various densities (e.g. 1600bpi or 6250bpi).   What confuses me ish   $ help init/dens  /      DDS1           Digital Data Storage 1 - 2Gm/      DDS2           Digital Data Storage 2 - 4Gl2      DDS3           Digital Data Storage 3 - 8-10G*      DDS4           Digital Data Storage 4   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 12:09:26 GMTo2 From: kilgallen@eisner.decus.org (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: RE: Verify of Backups' Message-ID: <2000Apr20.080926.1@eisner>   [ In article <8dmkp4$mgs$1@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:-[ > In article <Mpo5ZUXvCFvb@malvm2.mala.bc.ca>, dunnett@mala.bc.ca (Malcolm Dunnett) writes:@ > B >>    It depends on the tape drive and how BACKUP gets back to theJ >> start of the saveset. I used to use /VERIFY and I found that BACKUP wasL >> rewinding the tape and then skipping forward to the start of the saveset,G >> so every save set in front of the one you wanted to verify had to beiL >> passed over along the way - slowing things down and creating extra passesF >> over the tape. On some drives ( such as the old Exabyte 8200s ) theI >> "file skip" function got executed at read speed, so it could literally % >> take hours to start a verify pass.c > G > OK, so only a problem if there is more than one save set on the tape?I  D On DLT, because of multiple passes, Dismount/Nounload might be quiteC faster than Rewind.  Does Backup have the smarts to substitute whene' there is only one saveset on the tape ?n   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Apr 2000 11:56:11 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)t Subject: Re: Verify of Backups0 Message-ID: <8dmr8r$qeo$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  [ In article <8dml2i$mgs$2@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:m1 >In article <8dmcr0$kc0$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>,n7 >gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) writes: h > 6 >> I thought I explained this already some weeks ago.  >t; >Right, but it was easier to just repost the whole thing...0 >r >The former three refer toJ >> the command set implemented to control a drive. Narrow => uses 8 bit toM >> transfer data, wide => uses 16 bit (thus, data transfer is twice as fast).hP >> Fast vs. slow => the very meaning of these words. Thus, a "fast wide" disk isP >> the fastest possibility, but there are "fast narrow" disks as well. Typically' >> "fast wide" drives understand SCSI3.e >> y >> >   o  DDS1, DDS2, DDS3 etc >> nP >> Methods for storing data on DAT tapes. DDS-1 is the oldest mode, DDS-4 is the? >> newest. A DDS-3 drive is usually able to read older formats.  >eI >....but is there any relationship between the SCSI levels and DDS level?n  M Not per se. But a today's drive will implement SCSI3 and DDS-4 and a very old  one SCSI1 and DDS-1.  " >> >   o  /MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTION >> uF >> A VMS-Qualifier to request the drive to use its internal method forH >> compression. This works only for some drives (especially the TLZ...). >w5 >Should one always use it?  Does it slow things down?f  N I didn't notice any slow-down. Whether one should use it is a matter of space.K But I couldn't find any difference besides the storage capacity between thep two options.   >> DDS-1 60m  =>  1.3 GB >> DDS-1 90m  =>  2   GB >> DDS-2 120m =>  4   GB >> DDS-3 125m => 12   GB >> DDS-4 150m => 20   GB >>  E >> This is the amount of bytes you may store on such a tape. It is anaQ >> approximation but these numbers are somewhat guaranteed. If the drive performsoQ >> a compression on the data you may typically save twice as much data on a tape.'A >> This, of course, depends heavily on the type of data you have.c >>< >Why is the table above non-linear even without compression?  I A longer tape allows a higher capacity. This is linear. But different DDS B standards use different methods to store data. This is non-linear.  . >> >   o  compression in the tape drive itself >> eQ >> Something that the drive does to save data more efficiently. The host computerlQ >> doesn't need to bother. The compression method is part of the DDS-standard. SooO >> a tape written with compression enabled on a HP drive can still be read on ae >> Sony drive. >iB >But perhaps not on an older drive which doesn't have compression?  K If the drive is DDS-1 then it will support the compression specific to this 	 standard.c  M >> Makes no sense with DATs. It is used on old 9-track tapes as these supporta/ >> various densities (e.g. 1600bpi or 6250bpi).- >- >What confuses me is >2 >$ help init/dens  >00 >     DDS1           Digital Data Storage 1 - 2G0 >     DDS2           Digital Data Storage 2 - 4G3 >     DDS3           Digital Data Storage 3 - 8-10Gp+ >     DDS4           Digital Data Storage 4t  5 Under VMS 7.1-2 I get something completely different.r   Regards,    Christoph Gartmanna  H -----------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +------------ http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/english/menue.html -----------+   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Apr 2000 12:58:04 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) Subject: Re: Verify of Backups. Message-ID: <8dmuss$ph0$1@info.service.rug.nl>  0 In article <8dmr8r$qeo$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>,6 gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) writes:    > >What confuses me is > >n > >$ help init/densh > >g2 > >     DDS1           Digital Data Storage 1 - 2G2 > >     DDS2           Digital Data Storage 2 - 4G5 > >     DDS3           Digital Data Storage 3 - 8-10G - > >     DDS4           Digital Data Storage 4s > 7 > Under VMS 7.1-2 I get something completely different.   
 I have 7.2-1.g   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:35:01 GMTi From: lorrensr@my-deja.com Subject: Re: Verify of Backups) Message-ID: <8dn124$dj3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>a  E There is a question of great importance that was not asked...how longrG do you need access to the information. Each tape media is good for onlyf> so long. If you get the most economic equipment combo for yourD application...but you put the information on a cheap 4MM media [thatC has a reliable life span of one year...] Or, go with a DLT with ten_ years plus reliability.   G You may want to consider first things first... how long do you need the 2 data. Then, the other hardware answers are simple.   Lorren  0 In article <8dmcr0$kc0$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>,!   gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de wrote:lD > In article <8dks5l$53i$4@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:D > >In article <2000Apr19.114534.1@eisner>, kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org (Bob > >Kaplow) writes: > >  > >> What is DDS?I > >SF > >Digital Data Storage---DDS1, DDS2, DDS3 refer to different "levels" ofC > >DAT tapes.  Time to post my old list of questions again, as theyr were > >never ALL answered: > >MG > >I'm looking for a good description of the interrelationships betweent thea( > >following things regarding DAT tapes: > >  > >   o  exact TLZ number  >h8 > Not that familiar with these. Others will know better. >e6 > >   o  SCSI1, SCSI2, SCSI3, narrow, wide, fast, slow > E > I thought I explained this already some weeks ago. The former three1 refer toF > the command set implemented to control a drive. Narrow => uses 8 bit toE > transfer data, wide => uses 16 bit (thus, data transfer is twice asq fast).G > Fast vs. slow => the very meaning of these words. Thus, a "fast wide"s disk issE > the fastest possibility, but there are "fast narrow" disks as well.0	 Typicallym& > "fast wide" drives understand SCSI3. >d > >   o  DDS1, DDS2, DDS3 etcm >DG > Methods for storing data on DAT tapes. DDS-1 is the oldest mode, DDS-G 4 is the> > newest. A DDS-3 drive is usually able to read older formats. >'! > >   o  /MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTIONm > E > A VMS-Qualifier to request the drive to use its internal method for G > compression. This works only for some drives (especially the TLZ...).h >g% > >   o  length of the tape in metersp >sG > 60m, 90m, 120m, 125m & 150m . DDS-1 is able to use 60m and 90m. DDS-2s will use6 > up to 120m, DDS-3 supports 125m and DDS-4 uses 150m. >c> > >   o  capacity of the tape in GB and what this really means >e > DDS-1 60m  =>  1.3 GBi > DDS-1 90m  =>  2   GB  > DDS-2 120m =>  4   GBh > DDS-3 125m => 12   GBa > DDS-4 150m => 20   GBo > D > This is the amount of bytes you may store on such a tape. It is anG > approximation but these numbers are somewhat guaranteed. If the drived performsE > a compression on the data you may typically save twice as much datad
 on a tape.@ > This, of course, depends heavily on the type of data you have. >o- > >   o  compression in the tape drive itselfe >sG > Something that the drive does to save data more efficiently. The host  computerD > doesn't need to bother. The compression method is part of the DDS- standard. SoD > a tape written with compression enabled on a HP drive can still be	 read on a 
 > Sony drive.  > E > >   o  increase in size of a BACKUP saveset compared to the size of  the  > >      stuff on disk >mE > Depends on the backup block size and the like. I don't have numbers  at hand. >  > >   o  INITIALIZE/DENSITYw >iD > Makes no sense with DATs. It is used on old 9-track tapes as these support-. > various densities (e.g. 1600bpi or 6250bpi). >o
 > Regards, >    Christoph Gartmanns >.H > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -+E > | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -  452 |e > |tF Immunbiologie                                                        |+ > | Postfach 1169                 Internet:a gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     | > | D-79011  Freiburg,3 FRG                                               |aH > +------------ http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/english/menue.html ---------- -+ >d    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 14:27:23 GMTp* From: Gord Coulman <gcoulman@ccinet.ab.ca> Subject: Re: Verify of Backups, Message-ID: <38FF0CD7.4CBFF823@ccinet.ab.ca>  H An excellent point, especially in regulated environments where you mightJ have a five or seven year retention rule.  A periodic archive to CD or DVDI comes to mind, except that I have never tried to write a VMS-readable CD.2K It sounds a little complex, but perhaps worth learning.  Does anyone have a2& proven recipe they would like to post?  E A side note:  In my opinion, one of the nicest features of VMS is the@G ability to boot standalone and restore the o/s in one simple operation.s   Gord.h   lorrensr@my-deja.com wrote:   G > There is a question of great importance that was not asked...how longuI > do you need access to the information. Each tape media is good for only.@ > so long. If you get the most economic equipment combo for yourF > application...but you put the information on a cheap 4MM media [thatE > has a reliable life span of one year...] Or, go with a DLT with tent > years plus reliability.t > I > You may want to consider first things first... how long do you need thet4 > data. Then, the other hardware answers are simple. >d > Lorren >u2 > In article <8dmcr0$kc0$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>,# >   gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de wrote:nF > > In article <8dks5l$53i$4@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl > (Phillip Helbig) writes:F > > >In article <2000Apr19.114534.1@eisner>, kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org > (Bob > > >Kaplow) writes: > > >  > > >> What is DDS?c > > > H > > >Digital Data Storage---DDS1, DDS2, DDS3 refer to different "levels" > ofE > > >DAT tapes.  Time to post my old list of questions again, as theye > were > > >never ALL answered: > > >rI > > >I'm looking for a good description of the interrelationships betweene > they* > > >following things regarding DAT tapes: > > >a > > >   o  exact TLZ numberr > >m: > > Not that familiar with these. Others will know better. > >s8 > > >   o  SCSI1, SCSI2, SCSI3, narrow, wide, fast, slow > >iG > > I thought I explained this already some weeks ago. The former three 
 > refer toH > > the command set implemented to control a drive. Narrow => uses 8 bit > toG > > transfer data, wide => uses 16 bit (thus, data transfer is twice ass > fast).I > > Fast vs. slow => the very meaning of these words. Thus, a "fast wide"a	 > disk isgG > > the fastest possibility, but there are "fast narrow" disks as well.m > Typicallyr( > > "fast wide" drives understand SCSI3. > >o > > >   o  DDS1, DDS2, DDS3 etc  > >iI > > Methods for storing data on DAT tapes. DDS-1 is the oldest mode, DDS-l
 > 4 is the@ > > newest. A DDS-3 drive is usually able to read older formats. > >s# > > >   o  /MEDIA_FORMAT=COMPACTIONv > >aG > > A VMS-Qualifier to request the drive to use its internal method forkI > > compression. This works only for some drives (especially the TLZ...).D > >m' > > >   o  length of the tape in meters  > > I > > 60m, 90m, 120m, 125m & 150m . DDS-1 is able to use 60m and 90m. DDS-2c
 > will use8 > > up to 120m, DDS-3 supports 125m and DDS-4 uses 150m. > > @ > > >   o  capacity of the tape in GB and what this really means > >m > > DDS-1 60m  =>  1.3 GBI > > DDS-1 90m  =>  2   GB  > > DDS-2 120m =>  4   GB  > > DDS-3 125m => 12   GBt > > DDS-4 150m => 20   GB  > >nF > > This is the amount of bytes you may store on such a tape. It is anI > > approximation but these numbers are somewhat guaranteed. If the drived
 > performsG > > a compression on the data you may typically save twice as much datae > on a tape.B > > This, of course, depends heavily on the type of data you have. > > / > > >   o  compression in the tape drive itselfs > >cI > > Something that the drive does to save data more efficiently. The hoste
 > computerF > > doesn't need to bother. The compression method is part of the DDS- > standard. SoF > > a tape written with compression enabled on a HP drive can still be > read on af > > Sony drive.- > >8G > > >   o  increase in size of a BACKUP saveset compared to the size ofe > thee > > >      stuff on disk > >hG > > Depends on the backup block size and the like. I don't have numberse
 > at hand. > >h > > >   o  INITIALIZE/DENSITYp > >hF > > Makes no sense with DATs. It is used on old 9-track tapes as these	 > supportn0 > > various densities (e.g. 1600bpi or 6250bpi). > >, > > Regards, > >    Christoph Gartmann  > >iJ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -+G > > | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -s > 452 |  > > |lH > Immunbiologie                                                        |- > > | Postfach 1169                 Internet:e  > gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     | > > | D-79011  Freiburg,5 > FRG                                               |tJ > > +------------ http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/english/menue.html ---------- > -+ > >O >T( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.s   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Apr 2000 07:43:46 -0700* From: dunnett@mala.bc.ca (Malcolm Dunnett) Subject: RE: Verify of Backups, Message-ID: <iVlX1bQY$$jW@malvm2.mala.bc.ca>  / In article <8dmkp4$mgs$1@info.service.rug.nl>, -/    helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:   [ > In article <Mpo5ZUXvCFvb@malvm2.mala.bc.ca>, dunnett@mala.bc.ca (Malcolm Dunnett) writes:  > B >>    It depends on the tape drive and how BACKUP gets back to theJ >> start of the saveset. I used to use /VERIFY and I found that BACKUP wasL >> rewinding the tape and then skipping forward to the start of the saveset,G >> so every save set in front of the one you wanted to verify had to beaL >> passed over along the way - slowing things down and creating extra passesF >> over the tape. On some drives ( such as the old Exabyte 8200s ) theI >> "file skip" function got executed at read speed, so it could literallye% >> take hours to start a verify pass.  > G > OK, so only a problem if there is more than one save set on the tape?s  E    Of course. If there's only a single saveset on the tape it doesn'tt matter which method you use.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 15:19:16 GMTs2 From: kilgallen@eisner.decus.org (Larry Kilgallen) Subject: Re: Verify of Backups' Message-ID: <2000Apr20.111916.1@eisner>i  Y In article <38FF0CD7.4CBFF823@ccinet.ab.ca>, Gord Coulman <gcoulman@ccinet.ab.ca> writes:-J > An excellent point, especially in regulated environments where you mightL > have a five or seven year retention rule.  A periodic archive to CD or DVDK > comes to mind, except that I have never tried to write a VMS-readable CD.lM > It sounds a little complex, but perhaps worth learning.  Does anyone have aa( > proven recipe they would like to post?   Mine is:  7 	Buy an Infoserver with the CD-writing software option.e  D This has to be on the used equipment market these days, because they are no longer manufactured.i  B Others have other methods using non-commercial software, for which you could start at:   J http://eisner.decus.org/DECUServe/DECnotes/3RD_PARTY_VMS_SOFTWARE/481.HTML   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:37:42 -0400 . From: "Andrew Robert" <robert_a@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Verify of Backups2 Message-ID: <8dn87c$qj0$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>  C During system boot, the only memory card used is the one in slot 0.o  E If you want to test the memory, just move the memory around so that a   different card is now in slot 0.  E If you can boot off of the CD-ROM, it sounds like the memory is okay.r  = Did you try and re-establish a boot block on the system disk?-  . Also, are you booting off of the correct root?  1 Lastly, what console firmware version are you at?R   The latest revision is 5.6.D   Regards,
 Andrew Robertr Principal Systems Analystd  Massachusetts Financial Services    = Larry Kilgallen <kilgallen@eisner.decus.org> wrote in messagec! news:2000Apr20.111916.1@eisner...m; > In article <38FF0CD7.4CBFF823@ccinet.ab.ca>, Gord Coulmant <gcoulman@ccinet.ab.ca> writes:oL > > An excellent point, especially in regulated environments where you mightJ > > have a five or seven year retention rule.  A periodic archive to CD or DVDrI > > comes to mind, except that I have never tried to write a VMS-readabled CD.rH > > It sounds a little complex, but perhaps worth learning.  Does anyone have a* > > proven recipe they would like to post? >i
 > Mine is: >r8 > Buy an Infoserver with the CD-writing software option. >dF > This has to be on the used equipment market these days, because they > are no longer manufactured.T >pD > Others have other methods using non-commercial software, for which > you could start at:o >rL > http://eisner.decus.org/DECUServe/DECnotes/3RD_PARTY_VMS_SOFTWARE/481.HTML   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 10:04:07 -0600S2 From: Monday Bill <Bill.Monday@UPI.UHColorado.Edu> Subject: Re: Verify of backupsJ Message-ID: <5D2691D2D460D3118C0B009027719614046DA1@upiex1.uhcolorado.edu>  I >  This is one of the class of "how high is 'up'?" questions...  The onlyS  >  answer can be "It depends..."   Stephen, 	n@ 	Shame on you.  I would have thought an engineer would know thatI there are several "always" valid  answers to that question.  IE: "Just ascI far as 'down'.", or "Twice as far as half-way 'up',  "As far as you wouldm like it to be".......      ;-)   Sorry, I couldn't resist.    Bill Monday0 Systems AdministratorT University Physicians, Inc.u bill.monday@upi.uhcolorado.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 16:38:17 GMTd* From: Gord Coulman <gcoulman@ccinet.ab.ca> Subject: Re: Verify of Backups, Message-ID: <38FF2B85.5B3B13F1@ccinet.ab.ca>  V Regarding your suggestion of using an Infoserver to create VMS-readable CDs, I have an[ Infoserver 150 that I no longer use.  It had a tape drive, a CDROM, and a 1GB internal disk \ on it.  I don't really like the idea of dusting it off, because wouldn't I require Decnet to] use it?  I only run TCP/IP and really don't want to implement Decnet again.  There must be ant easier way.c   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  [ > In article <38FF0CD7.4CBFF823@ccinet.ab.ca>, Gord Coulman <gcoulman@ccinet.ab.ca> writes:rL > > An excellent point, especially in regulated environments where you mightN > > have a five or seven year retention rule.  A periodic archive to CD or DVDM > > comes to mind, except that I have never tried to write a VMS-readable CD.>O > > It sounds a little complex, but perhaps worth learning.  Does anyone have av* > > proven recipe they would like to post? >-
 > Mine is: >s@ >         Buy an Infoserver with the CD-writing software option. > F > This has to be on the used equipment market these days, because they > are no longer manufactured.r > D > Others have other methods using non-commercial software, for which > you could start at:o >eL > http://eisner.decus.org/DECUServe/DECnotes/3RD_PARTY_VMS_SOFTWARE/481.HTML   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Apr 2000 17:05:28 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: Verify of Backups6 Message-ID: <8dndco$lop$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  Y In article <38FF0CD7.4CBFF823@ccinet.ab.ca>, Gord Coulman <gcoulman@ccinet.ab.ca> writes:   :A periodic archive to CD or DVDJ :comes to mind, except that I have never tried to write a VMS-readable CD.L :It sounds a little complex, but perhaps worth learning.  Does anyone have a' :proven recipe they would like to post?)  B   Please acquire and read the OpenVMS FAQ, you will find a sectionB   with a variety of information and pointers on CD-R operations onC   OpenVMS.  (http://www.openvms.compaq.com/ has a link to the FAQ.)s  F :A side note:  In my opinion, one of the nicest features of VMS is theH :ability to boot standalone and restore the o/s in one simple operation.  F   I prefer the ability to autoconfigure the software during the systemH   bootstrap, and not have the installation tied to the particular local D   hardware configuration -- this ability is what makes this task so ?   difficult on certain other platforms, and so easy on OpenVMS.   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Apr 2000 10:35:15 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>u# Subject: Re: Web server for VAX/VMS4H Message-ID: <y4ya69w4os.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  ' Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes:   ' > Why is it "not technically feasible"?h  I Because you have to emulate IEEE floating point on the VAX, completely in K software. Add in the usual interpretation speed of Java, and the developersn< have said it was so slow to be unusable. I believe them 8-|.   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:19:19 -04003" From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org># Subject: Re: Web server for VAX/VMS 8 Message-ID: <4.3.1.0.20000420081508.01d42990@24.8.96.48>  . At 08:25 PM 4/19/00 -0600, Dan O'Reilly wrote:  & >At 08:18 PM 4/19/00 , Ed Wilts wrote: >>Arne Vajh=F8j wrote: >> >D >> > Only the ones from Compaq seems to have problems with VMS VAX ! >>F >>Let's be fair here.  Compaq wants Java compatibility, and that's notF >>technically feasible on the Vax architecture.  I'm sure Compaq couldH >>release a Java-less web server if they wanted to, but why should they?F >>They won't make any money off it, either in support or sales.  TheirI >>push is on the Alpha, and I certainly won't fault them for that at this  >>stage of the game. > I >Why is it "not technically feasible"?  I'm not sure that's the reason sot8 >much as Compaq would like to kill the VAX architecture.  L Because the Java sources assume that the C double type behaves in a fully=20K IEEE manner, and, since the code doesn't make any distinction between Java=  =20 K floating point numbers and internally used ones, it means that for Java to=i =20 H work properly on a VAX the code needs to do *all* it's floating-point=20L operations with IEEE semantics. Which means all the floating point ops need= =20o to be 100% emulated.  L I don't know if they've got that software available, but even if they did=20L it'd be horribly expensive and it'd mean assaulting the Dec C compiler to=20L use the floating point emulation code instead of emitting normal float ops.= =20tL That's a lot of work for a platform that's been officially superceded for=20 the past five or seven years...m   					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"------------------- 2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and eveni;                                       teddy bears get drunke   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 18:30:58 +0200a= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>h# Subject: Re: Web server for VAX/VMS ) Message-ID: <38FF30C1.875C3E61@gtech.com>i   Ed Wilts wrote:h > Arne Vajhj wrote:C > > Only the ones from Compaq seems to have problems with VMS VAX !t > F > Let's be fair here.  Compaq wants Java compatibility, and that's notF > technically feasible on the Vax architecture.  I'm sure Compaq couldH > release a Java-less web server if they wanted to, but why should they?F > They won't make any money off it, either in support or sales.  TheirI > push is on the Alpha, and I certainly won't fault them for that at this  > stage of the game.   ????  > I am not qute sure, that I understand why Java is an issue for web-servers.  H I am not aware of that any of the available web-servers for VMS requires Java.s   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 06:36:56 GMT+% From: Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com>n  Subject: RE: What's this option?) Message-ID: <8dm8i7$its$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   6 In article <8dl0is$m9b$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>,&   hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam wrote: >nD > In article <4.2.0.58.20000419130255.00a63f00@pop.clsp.uswest.net>,' Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes:  > :Supported by VMS? >eB >   Yes, though it requires the Open3D kit -- check the Open3D kit version.H >   and the OpenVMS version to ensure compatibility and support for this >   particular widget. >m, > :At 01:00 PM 4/19/00 , Kurt Schulte wrote:- > :>TGA 24 Plane, w/ Z Buffer. 4M-Pixels, PCI. >F@ >   The PBXGA-C* series is also known as the ZLXp-E3 controller. >i > :>What is a PBXGA-CA/CN? >aH >   The ZLXp-E1/E2/E3 PCI Graphics Options Owner's Guide is EK-T2424-OG.  C According to some notes I have the -CA is for Tru64 Unix + OpenVMS,  the -CN is for Winwoes NT.  H >   Lemme know what resolution(s) you want to run, and I'll send you theD >   switchpack settings for it.  There are sixteen settings options,G >   ranging from 1280 x 1024 x 72 Hz down to 640 x 480 x 60 Hz or so...iG >   (I'd normally post the whole list, but I'd first have to type it ina= >   from the switchpack settings diagram I have access to...)   2 Why not do it during your plentiful spare time ;-)   --
 Uwe Zessin    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Apr 2000 12:41:45 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: RE: What's this option?6 Message-ID: <8dmtu9$fk2$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  j In article <4.2.0.58.20000419161158.00a87140@pop.clsp.uswest.net>, Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com> writes:  G   re: need for Open3D kit for PBXGA-CA/-CN ZLXp-E3 graphics controller?i  F :Is this kit required for all uses of the option, or just for specificI :things (i.e., will it operate as a "normal" DCE environment without it)?9  K   The Open3D kit includes drivers for various options not supported by the  I   base OpenVMS operating system.  OpenVMS Engineering has taken over the DI   maintenance of the Open3D kit, and will be incorporating newer options lJ   into ECO-style kits and into subsequent OpenVMS releases.  (Effectively E   retiring the need for the Open3D kit for newer graphics widgets...)e  G   We *may* eventually -- and this is only a guess, based on a desire toeJ   make the source code and kits easier to manage and to distribute -- end I   up rolling the remaining device driver contents of the Open3D kit into iK   the base OpenVMS operating system kit in some unspecified future release  M   (likely well after the V7.3 release, at the earliest), and thus completely bF   eliminate the need for the separate Open3D kit for these releases...  - :Also, is a separate Open3D license required?r  F   Generally if you're running the drivers in 2D, no...  For 3D, yes...  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:47:59 -0400l5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>   Subject: Re: What's this option?+ Message-ID: <8dn8p9$dhc$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>   . Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote in message  F >And it has a bug I've reported and which has *never* been fixed alongF >with the screwed up fonts after running NetScape. :(  None out of two >ain't bad, eh?2 > H >When you open a document in BookReader and use the scroll bar, the textG >is 'smeared out' and unreadable.  You can get by if you use the [^][v]cH >controls to drag the scroll bar but you can't directly move it with the >mouse or text is smeared. >     0 When was it reported, and what was the response?   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 17:03:01 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)h  Subject: Re: What's this option?0 Message-ID: <009E8E51.389ED333@SendSpamHere.ORG>  c In article <8dn8p9$dhc$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:y > / >Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote in messager >iG >>And it has a bug I've reported and which has *never* been fixed alongsG >>with the screwed up fonts after running NetScape. :(  None out of twoh >>ain't bad, eh? >>I >>When you open a document in BookReader and use the scroll bar, the textoH >>is 'smeared out' and unreadable.  You can get by if you use the [^][v]I >>controls to drag the scroll bar but you can't directly move it with the  >>mouse or text is smeared.i >> >h > 1 >When was it reported, and what was the response?d >t >v  G "A long, long, time ago..."  So long ago I can't even see the S.R. wheneF I went to look it up with WIS.  I believe I also tried to get it fixedC by reporting it as a bug in the PTR during Raven field testing. ;) d  E The Netscape problem also occurs on my box with the *-E1 option.  The- "smear" is *-E3 only.-  G Also, when using the *-L2 option, the processes associated with running-G with this option dog the system so badly that I have since remove this  D *very* nice and *very* expensive option and stashed it away for safe keeping. :(e  G I can live with the *-E3 'smearing' but the font problem is really pis- A sing me off...  I hate having to log in at the console and issue:w  # $ @SYS$MANAGER:DECW$STARTUP RESTART-  " and then log back into DECwindows.  F About the only thing I can tell you about the font problem is that the following command:  $ ALPHA$ mcr DECW$UTILS:xlsfonts -o -l+ DIR  MIN  MAX EXIST DFLT PROP ASC DESC NAMEr( -->    0   55   all    0   11  32   32 *  F returns NOTHING after running Netscape and subsequent apps fail trying to find fonts.   --N VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001           VAXman@TMESIS.COM  L GNU Freeware -- What does the GNU *really* stand for?  Garbage!  Not Usable!   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.221 ************************