1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 05 Aug 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 434       Contents:( Re: Announcement: PDF Viewer for OpenVMS( Re: Announcement: PDF Viewer for OpenVMS Re: dcps documentation? " Decwindows flakey after OS upgrade7 F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","LOG_SPECIFICATION",,"THIS_JOB") ; Re: F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","LOG_SPECIFICATION",,"THIS_JOB") ; Re: F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","LOG_SPECIFICATION",,"THIS_JOB") $ Free No-Repay Grants, $500 - $50,000( Re: GTK+ now available for OpenVMS Alpha( Re: GTK+ now available for OpenVMS Alpha# Re: I NEED A .JPG VIEWER FOR VMS...  Re: Is there a TSM replacement? ! Linux and Open VMS on Alpha XL266 % Re: Linux and Open VMS on Alpha XL266 % Re: Linux and Open VMS on Alpha XL266 % Re: Linux and Open VMS on Alpha XL266  Re: Quality  Re: Quality  Re: Quality  Re: Quality  Re: Quality  Re: Quality  Rather off topic, but funny $ Re: SMG calls bringing up EDT editor$ Re: SMG calls bringing up EDT editor The High Cost of Tech Books ( Re: Trouble with the Intel Ethernet ship Re: VMS Vs any other OS  Re: VMS Vs any other OS  Re: VMS Vs any other OS  Re: VMS Vs any other OS  Re: VMS Vs any other OS  Re: VMS Vs any other OS   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2000 21:51:56 -0500 9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) 1 Subject: Re: Announcement: PDF Viewer for OpenVMS + Message-ID: <qbHUSSBeSSe5@eisner.decus.org>   Z In article <8metk4$d0g$1@aquila.news.mdx.ac.uk>, david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb) writes:  K > But with the Adobe Acrobat Reader being free on other platforms how do I  = > convince anybody to purchase an equivalent product on VMS ?   A The same way you convince them to buy a batch system for Windows.   L > Now if you were talking about a tool to create PDF documents then that is B > another matter since the equivalent Acrobat products cost money.  < I think the proper place for that is to have Touch add it to? DEC Document.  Right now you can run Document postscript output 1 through Acrobat, but you don't get the hot spots.    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2000 22:01:25 -0500 9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) 1 Subject: Re: Announcement: PDF Viewer for OpenVMS + Message-ID: <AXNEoJM+ogMD@eisner.decus.org>   i In article <398AC2AB.E8D2C405@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:   Dan O'Reilly wrote:, > At 11:09 AM 8/3/2000, Chris Scheers wrote:9 > >Unfortunately, the pricing has not been finalized yet.   < > >Should it be priced per system, per cluster, or per seat? > > ! > >How many copies would you buy?  > N > Buy?  None.  There's an acceptable (albeit, slower) viewer already availableK > for free.  OK, I take it back; maybe $10 per seat or something like that. K > Let's face it: reading PDF files on VMS is something people want to do on K > occasion, but most people end up reading them on M$ stuff, because that's  > where the mail goes to...   A I do not use any computer to receive mail that also displays PDF. = The Macintosh I use for some mail is a place where I could of A course install Acrobat, but nobody would send me PDF in the mail, ' so I have no reason to install Acrobat.   A The main occasion I have to read PDF is reading a file from a web  site or a CD-ROM.   @ Another consideration is that I know of no other vendor of a PDFB viewer for VMS.  I have seen the Acrobat Java toy and it is vastly. inferior to the regular Acrobat for Macintosh.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2000 22:20:44 -0500 9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)   Subject: Re: dcps documentation?+ Message-ID: <fVFMLnN4EOOg@eisner.decus.org>   p In article <panderson-2503A8.09554704082000@news.ma.ultranet.com>, Paul Anderson <panderson@genicom.com> writes:  6 > DCPS documentation is available in a number of ways: > 8 >    - Alpha and VAX Online Documentation Library CD-ROM >       (HTML)/ >    - DECprint Supervisor CD-ROM (QA09NABH8) 1 >       (PDF, PostScript, text, HTML, Bookreader)  >    - hardcopy (QA09NAAGZ)   ; I would hope that is something your new employer could fix, > by putting the full set of formats on the Online Documentation CDROMs.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 19:09:36 GMT ) From: kevin@ocean.nova.edu (Kevin Kohler) + Subject: Decwindows flakey after OS upgrade . Message-ID: <39886f56.13023899@draco.nova.edu>  E We recently upgraded our 6 node Alpha cluster from OpenVMS 6.2-1h3 to > 7.2-1. We are running Decwindows v1.2-4. After the OS upgrade, Decwindows was not reinstalled.   D The situation we are running into involves running a detached window@ running emacs (gnu emacs 19.22.2). If other windows (at least 2)B partially cover the emacs window, and the cursor is moved onto the@ emacs window to give it focus and bring it to the top, the emacs- window often dies with the following message:   , %DEBUGBOOT-W-EXQUOTA, process quota exceeded7 %SYSTEM-F-DEBUG, command interpreter debugger signal at  PC=00000000000EFCD4 
 , PS=0000001B   2   Improperly handled condition, image exit forced.1     Signal arguments:   Number = 0000000000000003 1                         Name   = 000000000000046C 1                                  00000000000EFCD4 1                                  100000000000001B    	 etc, etc.   : It seems to be only the emacs window which gets clobbered.  E The latest patch applied to Decwindows is alpmot03_u4012, and VMS has $ had the GRAPHICS-v3.0 patch applied.  F Any ideas regarding the cause and solution of the dying window? ShouldC I reinstall DW1.2-4?  Should I upgrade to DW 1.2-5? Should I grab a   newer version of the Emacs port?   Thanks...Kevin  4 ----------------------------------------------------+ Kevin E. Kohler   <kevin@ocean.nova.edu>          4 ----------------------------------------------------+ Kevin E. Kohler   <kevin@ocean.nova.edu>    3 Senior Programmer/Coordinator of Computing Services 3 Nova Southeastern University Oceanographic Center   9 8000 North Ocean Drive  Dania Beach, Florida  33004       & Ph:  954.262.3641    Fax: 954.262.4098   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 15:24:41 -0700 / From: Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com> @ Subject: F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","LOG_SPECIFICATION",,"THIS_JOB")M Message-ID: <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213026FDEBC@seantexch.unitedad.com>   
 Hello all,  =    I want to mail the log file to a user if the a job fails.  < I can't seem to get the lexical to work. Below is a snippet 6 from the log. I know it has to be something simple :)  TIA  Terry   8 $ JNAME = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","JOB_NAME",,"THIS_JOB")7 $ JPID  = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","JOB_PID",,"THIS_JOB") = $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "JNAME = TEST_OF_GETQUI , JPID = 00025C66" ( JNAME = TEST_OF_GETQUI , JPID = 00025C66 $!A $ JLOG  = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","LOG_SPECIFICATION",,"THIS_JOB")  $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "JLOG= ||"  JLOG= || $!      5 *****************************************************     5 ***************************************************** 4 Any views or opinions are solely those of the author) and do not necessarily represent those of  United Advertising Media. 5 ***************************************************** 4 The information transmitted is intended only for the1 person or entity to which it is addressed and may 3 contain confidential and/or privileged material. If 3 you are not the intended recipient of this message, . please do not read, copy, use or disclose this3 communication and notify the sender immediately. It 0 should be noted that any review, retransmission,2 dissemination or other use of, or taking action in- reliance upon, this information by persons or - entities other than the intended recipient is  prohibited. 5 *****************************************************  **   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 18:53:52 -0500 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> D Subject: Re: F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","LOG_SPECIFICATION",,"THIS_JOB")- Message-ID: <398B5790.D3EE9D19@earthlink.net>    Terry Marosites wrote: >  > Hello all, > > >    I want to mail the log file to a user if the a job fails.= > I can't seem to get the lexical to work. Below is a snippet 7 > from the log. I know it has to be something simple :)  > TIA  > Terry  > : > $ JNAME = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","JOB_NAME",,"THIS_JOB")9 > $ JPID  = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","JOB_PID",,"THIS_JOB") ? > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "JNAME = TEST_OF_GETQUI , JPID = 00025C66" * > JNAME = TEST_OF_GETQUI , JPID = 00025C66 > $!C > $ JLOG  = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","LOG_SPECIFICATION",,"THIS_JOB")  > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "JLOG= ||" 
 > JLOG= || > $!  G You won't be able to get he EXACT version of the log file. However, the F following code tacked onto your existing code will get you the highest version of the log:     $ DFLT = F$TRNLNM( "SYS$LOGIN" )2 $ LOG_FILE = F$PARSE( JLOG, JNAME + ".LOG", DFLT )   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 02:20:18 GMT 8 From: DCantor@remove.three.words.shore.net (Dave Cantor)D Subject: Re: F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","LOG_SPECIFICATION",,"THIS_JOB"): Message-ID: <CRKi5.11083$f_5.58160@news1.rdc1.ct.home.com>  ~ In article <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213026FDEBC@seantexch.unitedad.com>, Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com> wrote:? >    I want to mail the log file to a user if the a job fails.  > > I can't seem to get the lexical to work. Below is a snippet 8 > from the log. I know it has to be something simple :)  > TIA  > Terry    : > $ JNAME = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","JOB_NAME",,"THIS_JOB")9 > $ JPID  = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","JOB_PID",,"THIS_JOB") ? > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "JNAME = TEST_OF_GETQUI , JPID = 00025C66" * > JNAME = TEST_OF_GETQUI , JPID = 00025C66 > $!C > $ JLOG  = F$GETQUI("DISPLAY_JOB","LOG_SPECIFICATION",,"THIS_JOB")  > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "JLOG= ||" 
 > JLOG= ||  L The problem with this is that you're assuming that the LOG_SPECIFICATION is H the NAME of the logfile (and I'm assuming _that_).  It isn't.  It's the O specification against which the job name is parsed to form filename of the log   file.   L Just do the same thing that the batch software does to produce the filename:  ; $ job_name = f$getqui("display_job","job_name",,"this_job") C $ logspec = f$getqui("display_job","log_specification",,"this_job") 5 $ if logspec .eqs. "" then logspec = "sys$login:.log" 0 $ defi/user 'job_name' 'job_name'/trans=terminal) $ logfilespec = f$parse(logspec,job_name) C $! Perhaps it should be   f$parse(logspec,job_name,"syslogin:.log") B $!    or maybe           f$parse(logspec,"syslogin:.log",job_name)K $ write sys$output f$fao("!/Parsed log file spec. is ""!AS"".",logfilespec) ! $ deassign/user 'job_name' /nolog   K The DEFINE/USER is required in case you've named your job with a word that    happens to be a logical name.      Dave C.    Dave C.    ------------------------------   Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 17:07:19 From: <grantgoldworld@aol.com>- Subject: Free No-Repay Grants, $500 - $50,000 = Message-ID: <477.601281.284191@mail01.homeworkers2333323.com>    FREE CASH GRANTS, NEVER REPAY!    ! You Can Get The Money You Need...    To Start Your Home Business...   To Consolidate Your Debt...  To Go To college...  To Start Your Home Business...   Almost ANY Worthwhile Reason...    Why?  < Foundations all over the United States GIVE away Millions of# Dollars of CASH GRANTS every year.  > They must give this MONEY away, in order to maintain their tax
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 **********   Notice:   J Due To Much Misuse of Customers Copying The Information, Then Requesting AK Refund, All sales final on reports.  You cannot receive a refund from Grant G Gold 2000 for the report, nor will you receive a refund by requesting a H "chargeback" from your Credit Card Company.  All Reports Will Be ShippedK Via Certified or Registered Postal Mail.  If you should receive a destroyed < copy due to shipping, we will replace it at no extra charge.                                ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2000 17:48:57 EST ! From: byer@cartman.ourservers.net 1 Subject: Re: GTK+ now available for OpenVMS Alpha 1 Message-ID: <L0HMN+3kj4DE@cartman.ourservers.net>   J I have put a kit together for those of us OpenVMS Hobbyist that have DEC CJ v6.0-001 that comes on the OpenVMS Hobbyist CD so that you can compile the	 GTK+ kit.    You can get this kit at...  > 	http://www.ourservers.net/openvms_ports/gtk/gtk_contents.html  I (I haven't put a link on my main OpenVMS Ports page yet as I JUST put the  page together.)   G Thanks to Colin Blake for the help with the compiler specific stuff. :}   L With the above kit one shouldn't have any problems compiling GTK+ with a preK DEC C v6.2 compiler and I've been told that it also compiles as far back as 
 DEC C v5.7   Hope this helps...   ------------------------------   Date: 05 Aug 2000 00:49:14 GMT' From: dashw459@aol.comeatspam (Doug W.) 1 Subject: Re: GTK+ now available for OpenVMS Alpha : Message-ID: <20000804204914.11710.00004062@ng-md1.aol.com>  K << Compaq is pleased to provide the GTK+ for OpenVMS Alpha, an open source, = free software library for creating graphical user interfaces.   >>   N So how far off is a port of the GIMP?  VMS just became a lot more interesting.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2000 18:46:09 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman), Subject: Re: I NEED A .JPG VIEWER FOR VMS...6 Message-ID: <8mf31h$d1o$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  W In article <398af092$1@news.kapsch.co.at>, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes: e :In article <8meqrl$co96$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: / :>The freeware XV application should work fine.2 : % :Nitpicking: XV is shareware since V3n  B   Which is why it is no longer included on the OpenVMS Freeware...  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 02:29:38 GMT,5 From: "John Stanley - \(ivaxman\)" <ivaxman@home.com> ( Subject: Re: Is there a TSM replacement?; Message-ID: <m_Ki5.63909$oj6.557967@news1.rdc1.tx.home.com>R  I Access Server Manager, an easy-to-use management tool that runs on 32-bitLK Windows-based operating systems. It provides a graphical user interface for F configuration of most DECserver features. Access Server Manager allowsF centralized management of DECservers. Save and Restore functions, PortK config and save ...etc. Check it out...Be sure to read server requirements.g  F http://www.networks.digital.com/dr/hubs/servers/software/servr-mn.html   Hope this helps, ivaxman@home.com    : "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> wrote in message# news:39895C12.53D3FCC0@uiowa.edu...OH > I have some older terminal servers, not all are Digital products, thatG > I have always managed with the TSM (Terminal Server Manager) product.i >lI > I just discovered that TSM is no longer a licensed product in the EDU'sP6 > CSLG package. :(  It is listed as a retired product. >cG > I suspect a new product long ago came along to manage these LAT-basedaF > terminal servers and DEC Hub devices but I did not pay attention. :) >rH > Does anyone know what (if any) replacement management product I should > be using is called?  >h
 > Regards, > Rick > --J > Richard L. Dyson                                    rick-dyson@uiowa.eduJ >  _   _      _____                http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/J > | | | |    |_   _|   Systems Analyst                     O: 319/335-1879J > | | | | of   | |     The University of Iowa            FAX: 319/335-17538 > | \_/ |     _| |_    Department of Physics & Astronomy/ >  \___/     |_____|   Iowa City, IA 52242-1479    ------------------------------  " Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 20:24:54 GMT3 From: cornelius@eisner.decus.org (George Cornelius) * Subject: Linux and Open VMS on Alpha XL266+ Message-ID: <zgmjLAuHeHfs@eisner.decus.org>0  i In article <Pine.ULT.3.91.1000729074537.207N-100000@gunn.kednos.com>, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> writes::J > I have one of these as well.  The only thing these machines will run is I > NT and Linux.  For linux you need linload and milo to bootstrap from a p > DOS partition.   So I am repeatedly informed.  J RedHat, however,  lists XL's 233 and 266 as "compatible, but unsupported".  I When I try to install RedHat 6.2, it doesn't seem to offer me a text mode M install (does 6.2 have text mode?), and the GUI mode install doesn't properlyoF handle my Matrox Millenium graphics card.  If I could just read what'sI obscured by those jailhouse bars running down my screen at 2 mm intervalsc5 I suppose the install might actually be made to work.   N  [I should mention that 6.2 won't install on my Intel-based DeskPro's at home]N  [either. Looks like Compaq's much ballyhhooed support for Linux is based on ]N  [the assumption that we will all buy Proliants and DS20's to run it on.     ]  J Off, topic, I know, but what the heck are we going to do with no supported O/S of any kind for our Alphas?J   --8 George Cornelius              cornelius@eisner.decus.org0                               cornelius@mayo.edu   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2000 19:41:44 GMTa2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman). Subject: Re: Linux and Open VMS on Alpha XL2666 Message-ID: <8mf69o$15b$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  a In article <zgmjLAuHeHfs@eisner.decus.org>, cornelius@eisner.decus.org (George Cornelius) writes:aj :In article <Pine.ULT.3.91.1000729074537.207N-100000@gunn.kednos.com>, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> writes:K :> I have one of these as well.  The only thing these machines will run is oJ :> NT and Linux.  For linux you need linload and milo to bootstrap from a  :> DOS partition.c ..K :RedHat, however,  lists XL's 233 and 266 as "compatible, but unsupported".s  A   An OpenVMS newsgroup is not the best place for Linux questions.3  O : [I should mention that 6.2 won't install on my Intel-based DeskPro's at home]rO : [either. Looks like Compaq's much ballyhhooed support for Linux is based on ]dO : [the assumption that we will all buy Proliants and DS20's to run it on.     ]n  H   The Alpha XL series is a comparatively old and slow Alpha system, and K   a system that was expressly targeted and sold for use with the Microsoft cI   Windows NT operating system.  Not Linux.  Not OpenVMS.  Not Tru64 UNIX.m  K   I am not familiar with the Proliant line, nor Linux-related plans for it.   J   I would personally view it as rather unlikely that folks here at Compaq K   will (officially) make a particular effort to specifically port Linux to tL   an (old) box such as the Alpha XL series, but somebody (potentiallu withinM   Compaq or quite possibly external) may well decide to add it as a midnight 0K   project -- I would tend to check on this directly with the folks that are &   more familiar with Linux on Alpha...  G   The "white-box" Windows NT-only Alpha systems programs were canceled sE   a while back, and with the cancellation of the Windows NT on Alpha.tG   I unfortunately know of few options for owners of an Alpha XL series.S  I   I do not, can not, and have not recommended the XL or any of the other nC   "white-box" (Windows NT only) Alpha systems for use with OpenVMS.   K :Off, topic, I know, but what the heck are we going to do with no supported-  :O/S of any kind for our Alphas?     Port Linux to them?e  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 13:43:15 -0700 (PDT) ! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com>e. Subject: Re: Linux and Open VMS on Alpha XL266E Message-ID: <Pine.ULT.3.91.1000804134125.764F-100000@gunn.kednos.com>u  = Linux will run on the XL266.  Recommend posting questions on d axp-list@redhat.comT   TomS  #  On 4 Aug 2000, Hoff Hoffman wrote:B   > Date: 4 Aug 2000 19:41:44 GMTD4 > From: Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comh0 > Subject: Re: Linux and Open VMS on Alpha XL266 >  > c > In article <zgmjLAuHeHfs@eisner.decus.org>, cornelius@eisner.decus.org (George Cornelius) writes: l > :In article <Pine.ULT.3.91.1000729074537.207N-100000@gunn.kednos.com>, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> writes:M > :> I have one of these as well.  The only thing these machines will run is 2L > :> NT and Linux.  For linux you need linload and milo to bootstrap from a  > :> DOS partition.C > ..M > :RedHat, however,  lists XL's 233 and 266 as "compatible, but unsupported".* > C >   An OpenVMS newsgroup is not the best place for Linux questions.* > Q > : [I should mention that 6.2 won't install on my Intel-based DeskPro's at home] Q > : [either. Looks like Compaq's much ballyhhooed support for Linux is based on ]*Q > : [the assumption that we will all buy Proliants and DS20's to run it on.     ]y > J >   The Alpha XL series is a comparatively old and slow Alpha system, and M >   a system that was expressly targeted and sold for use with the Microsoft mK >   Windows NT operating system.  Not Linux.  Not OpenVMS.  Not Tru64 UNIX.o > M >   I am not familiar with the Proliant line, nor Linux-related plans for it.  > L >   I would personally view it as rather unlikely that folks here at Compaq M >   will (officially) make a particular effort to specifically port Linux to  N >   an (old) box such as the Alpha XL series, but somebody (potentiallu withinO >   Compaq or quite possibly external) may well decide to add it as a midnight  M >   project -- I would tend to check on this directly with the folks that areI( >   more familiar with Linux on Alpha... > I >   The "white-box" Windows NT-only Alpha systems programs were canceled  G >   a while back, and with the cancellation of the Windows NT on Alpha.mI >   I unfortunately know of few options for owners of an Alpha XL series.  > K >   I do not, can not, and have not recommended the XL or any of the other AE >   "white-box" (Windows NT only) Alpha systems for use with OpenVMS._ > M > :Off, topic, I know, but what the heck are we going to do with no supported " > :O/S of any kind for our Alphas? >  >   Port Linux to them?$ > P >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >  >  >   A                __________________________________________________hA               /_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ @              /_/                                             /_/?             /_/     Tom Linden              PL/I Support    /_/l>            /_/    Kednos Corporation       OpenVMS and     /_/=           /_/   tel 831 373 7003          Tru64 Unix      /_/a<          /_/_____________________________________________/_/;         /_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/,   ------------------------------  " Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 22:42:33 GMT3 From: cornelius@eisner.decus.org (George Cornelius)2. Subject: Re: Linux and Open VMS on Alpha XL266+ Message-ID: <VHnGeV+Nzueh@eisner.decus.org>t  k In article <8mf69o$15b$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:.C >   An OpenVMS newsgroup is not the best place for Linux questions.i  K Actually, the thread started with a request to run OpenVMS on the box.  I'm"8 responding to someone's comment that Linux is an option.  G As I stated, we are drifting off topic, but sometimes you have to carry6G on the discussion in the group most likely to have parties with similarIB interests.  If my newsreader would have prompted me for additional8 newsgroups I would have posted to comp.sys.dec as well.   J >   The Alpha XL series is a comparatively old and slow Alpha system, and M >   a system that was expressly targeted and sold for use with the Microsoft oK >   Windows NT operating system.  Not Linux.  Not OpenVMS.  Not Tru64 UNIX.i  N Yes, Hoff, I engaged in a bit of Compaq bashing.  Since none of it is targetedM at the VMS side of the fence I hope you won't take it too personally.  Mostly_; I'm targeting the Linux hype, which can be a bit overblown.p  L >   I would personally view it as rather unlikely that folks here at Compaq M >   will (officially) make a particular effort to specifically port Linux to ,N >   an (old) box such as the Alpha XL series, but somebody (potentiallu withinO >   Compaq or quite possibly external) may well decide to add it as a midnight gM >   project -- I would tend to check on this directly with the folks that aren( >   more familiar with Linux on Alpha...  K I think Linux has worked on the XL series in the past.  The problem is that-G the support organizations aren't giving it a very high priority, and if@C you browse around at RedHat's web site I think you'll find they are G interested in knowing how it works on machines such as ours, but cannotEE do much to support it if they don't have identical machines in house.e  F It's not like VMS where the ancient hardware continues to be supported' for years after it has become obsolete.r  I >   The "white-box" Windows NT-only Alpha systems programs were canceled yG >   a while back, and with the cancellation of the Windows NT on Alpha.OI >   I unfortunately know of few options for owners of an Alpha XL series.   G I'm not actually too worried about it.  If I were I might have asked my I sales rep when Alpha NT was dropped for tradein credits towards a machineaJ that would run VMS on my desktop. I inherited this XL from someone who wasH tired of fighting the software unavailability battles, and it still is aG reasonably responsive NT box.  I just think people have to realize thatrE 'Linux to the rescue' is not necessarily the option they think it is.i   --8 George Cornelius              cornelius@eisner.decus.org0                               cornelius@mayo.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 13:57:18 -0400,( From: Ed Vogel <edward.vogel@compaq.com> Subject: Re: Quality* Message-ID: <398B03FE.6599888C@compaq.com>   >n >lN > I know that the DEC C compiler is doing...  Here is the dilema and I believeO > that Wayne understood the problem at hand best.  The code is flawed.  I does,iN > however, purport to build and run on unix platforms.  Not knowing what theirN > compiler(s) do with such constructs leaves me pondering whether or not DEC C2 > can constructed code which mimics this behavior. >t  N     Ah...sorry...my mistake....I guess you could write a small program and see9     what the unix compile does with the extra initalizer.    >  >dM > BTW, does 6.2A fix the preprocessor bugger that I reported?  Dealt with theu+ > "\" continuation to help jog your memory.   F     No it does not.   We expect to include the fix in the next release:     of the product which will get fully field tested, etc.  ;                                                          Edd   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2000 12:13:34 PDT T From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515) Subject: Re: Quality3 Message-ID: <dDZ9jHgr0tV6@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>_  9 In article <009EE12B.11605ACE@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, _R     winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes: [...]dO > Y'know, David Mathog has explained where he's coming from on this repeatedly.a [...]oM > David's not talking about quality of engineering; he isn't saying that Unix N > systems are morally better; he's asking for what it would take for him to beI > able to make the case for the next machine he buys to be a VMS machine._ > ! > Try not to be offended by that._  C         Well put, Alan!  Couldn't have said it better myself.  :-} c  H         _All_ VMS advocates posting  here  need  to  be cognizant of theH     "real  world"  pressures  on maintaining/retaining  VMS  systems  inH     anything   but   a   mission-critical,   big-business,    enterpriseH     environment  (and  even  there it can be difficult).  In any sort ofH     research environment, where  software  is being developed, modified,H     re-released  over and over again, an environment where VMS  _should_H     excel (as it did in the 80's), so much software is coming from  unixH     that  VMS  _must_  adapt  if it is to survive.  FWIW, I think forcesH     inside VMS Engineering are doing  what  they  can to accomplish thatH     (GTK+  for  VMS just released, the unix porting library, Apache  andH     Mozilla ports).  So while people reading this  news  group  may  notH     need  or want to "work" under a unix shell, the availability of suchH     a shell, or its equivalent functionality, would be a tremendous boonH     to VMS users  in  making  unix-developed  software,  both free _and_!     commercial, available on VMS.t               -Ken -- tM  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Edui:  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924:  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515N  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------B  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2000 20:19:37 -0500.* From: kuhrt@eisner.decus.org (Marty Kuhrt) Subject: Re: Quality+ Message-ID: <0uonjLdO9uah@eisner.decus.org>   o In article <1095821a.1c8072b7@usw-ex0102-084.remarq.com>, Jojimbo <jgesslingNOjgSPAM@yahoo.com.invalid> writes:e@ > I think the original post made a lot of sense.  Here are a few= > things that VMS does not have that make it a non choice for @ > a lot of people.  (and an inconvenient choice for others).  If? > you need to reply to the effect that this or that is not good.7 > and not necessary and DCL is better anyway, go ahead.s >  > 1) Korn shellr% > 2) /this/that/everthing file systems4 > 3) Netscape's Kiva (now renamed to something else)  7 What's a Kiva, other than a large, underground chamber X) used by Pueblo men for secret ceremonies?i   > 4) BEA's Weblogic   7 The BEA WebLogic application server has been available p% on VMS since November of last year.  -   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 18:18:18 -0500z7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>, Subject: Re: Quality- Message-ID: <398B4F3A.AD72A8D8@earthlink.net>a   Bill Todd wrote: > B > David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message) > news:398A036F.16D2719B@earthlink.net...a [snip] > >yJ > > So, here's the toughie: How do you propose to reconcile such a glaring > > disparity? > I > Don't have to.  I have no idea where you formed the impression that thesN > book's observations were obtained by polling customers rather than observing > their actual behavior. s  H For the purposes of this discussion, what the hell is the difference??!!  & On second thought, let's examine that:  H The Harvard people conclude - from their observations - that advertisingD and marketing are ineffectual, but fail to acknowledge that the sameF people who seem unaffected by advertising and marketing are themselvesB pouring millions - if not billions - annually into advertising and
 marketing.  * Still sounds bogus to me. Care to comment?  0 > But then again I don't know where most of your > misimpressions come from.   H Yeah. Lotsa folks - including some Harvard Business School people - seem$ to find common sense rather elusive.   -- D David J. DachteraI dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2000 22:15:28 -0500 9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Quality+ Message-ID: <q7lt7wHYw2rp@eisner.decus.org>S  U In article <398AF989.DEEA0801@compaq.com>, Ed Vogel <edward.vogel@compaq.com> writes: ( > "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: >  >> >> If DEC compilers wrePF >> to look the other way when REALLY BAD CODE IS PRESENTED TO THEM, weF >> just might be able to post a few unixy apps to VMS but then qualityD >> would not the proper topic for this thread; unless, of course, we/ >> were to be questioning the existence of any.f >> > I > I "feel your pain" Brian.  Again, we have spent a great deal of effort,dI > beginning with the V5.7 release, and continuing through V6.2A to modifylH > the compiler so that it would accept more "bad" code.  We made lots ofE > errors (such as too many initializers) warnings so that at least anoG > .obj file can be produced. We've spent a great deal of time enhancing J > the compiler to accept programs that gcc accepts.  I urge you to upgradeE > to V6.2A and try /STAND=COMMON. If that's still too noisy (too manynC > warnings) add /WARN=DISABLE=LEVEL3 then /WARN=DISABLE=LEVEL2 thengH > /WARN=DISABLE=LEVEL1.  At some point the compiler should stop emitting, > the warnings/informationals that you want.  B While I appreciate the effort you must go through to dumb down theB VMS compiler, those are not the sorts of compromises Brian will beC inclined to make.  He is the sort who wants assurance that the codea7 will work, not papering over warnings that it will not.   C To date I have been unable to convince Brian he is wasting his time C with taking C code from Unix and instead should be writing Ada fromJ scratch :-)e   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2000 20:49:06 CDT = From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.293778.killspam.0223 (Wayne Sewell)- Subject: Re: Quality. Message-ID: <1t7H08tAhV6n@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  \ In article <8meh04$pub$1@lisa.gemair.com>, jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson) writes: > 9 > I'm fairly certain that Brian had tools at his disposale= > to find those errors on any of the "myriad flavors of Unix"a  > that he might have been using. >   D He's not using any kind of unix.  He doesn't want to use unix.  He'sI complaining about the people who did use unix and didn't use any of theseo marvelous tools.     > 3 > It appeared to me that Brian was making an unfair>2 > indictment on all Unix developers as being loose > and careless.  p  H He didn't say all unix developers were lose and careless.  He said everyM package he has tried to compile was full of stupid errors that shouldn't havebK been there.  My experience has been the same.  Maybe we are somehow pickingpK only the packages developed by idiots.  Who knows?  We are simply reportings what we found.        ' >I showed where Unix typically providesm, > as strict checking as you find anywhere.    . Not relevant if the peckerhead doesn't use it.   >I can findc5 > numerous references to Unix experts who will adviseo0 > that you always run your code through lint (or/ > equivalent) to catch these kinds of things.     J The peckerhead didn't do it.  It doesn't matter that he could have.  We'reN complaining that he didn't.  If he had, the errors Brian was complaining about wouldn't have been there.    >I A6 > think an indictment of Unix tools as allowing sloppy6 > programming is unfair.  It's the user, not the tool.  K We've been saying it's the user all along.  The indictment is against thosefO half-assed programmers that don't use these wonderful tools and distribute codew full of moronic errors.r  K The main difference is that dec c does most of this checking by default, sosH even if one *is* a peckerhead he will at least find out about the error.     -- iO ===============================================================================nM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx : http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)-O ===============================================================================fP Woody Allen, in Sleeper: "I'm not the heroic type.  I was beaten up by Quakers."   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 13:31:05 -0700m! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comj$ Subject: Rather off topic, but funnyC Message-ID: <OF54884DBF.4ADED5EB-ON88256931.0070B5D1@HEALTHNET.COM>s  K In User Friendly, the resident Evil Genius (my soul brother and look-alike)iI Pitr has decided to add VB Scripting to Linux e-mail programsas punisment + for the spam-mongers. It's worth following:<  > http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20000731&mode=classic    H  #####   ---------------------------------------------------------------I #-O-O-# | Shane underbar S on pacbell dot net. Spam to abuse@127.0.0.1  | H #  L  #  ---------------------------------------------------------------D  #===#   Don't blame HealthNet for anything I say. They're innocent.H   ###    OpenVMS: The operating system God runs the Earth simulation on.   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2000 19:00:44 GMTi2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)- Subject: Re: SMG calls bringing up EDT editor 6 Message-ID: <8mf3ss$fbk$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  D In article <8meuub$2b9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, rcyoung@groupz.net writes:> :I am trying to "bring up" the standard VMS editor from within? :SMG to do editing of text files, the go back into SMG with the 1 :screens intact, looking as the were before, etc.  ..  K   You will want to use the SMG routine that will save the SMG display statemL   (SMG$SAVE_PHYSICAL_SCREEN), then directly call EDT$EDT, TPU$TPU, or other H   similar editor API routine -- most of the OpenVMS text editors have a J   callable interface -- and, when done editing, then call the SMG routine H   that will restore the SMG display state (SMG$RESTORE_PHYSICAL_SCREEN).  . :CC replies to rcyoung@groupz.net if possible.     Ask here, get an answer here.f  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 22:55:23 GMTr From: dpm@myths.comt- Subject: Re: SMG calls bringing up EDT editor.- Message-ID: <somier3dbm78@news.supernews.com>h  3 Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote:n  F > In article <8meuub$2b9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, rcyoung@groupz.net writes:@ > :I am trying to "bring up" the standard VMS editor from withinA > :SMG to do editing of text files, the go back into SMG with ther3 > :screens intact, looking as the were before, etc.o > ..  M >   You will want to use the SMG routine that will save the SMG display stateiN >   (SMG$SAVE_PHYSICAL_SCREEN), then directly call EDT$EDT, TPU$TPU, or other J >   similar editor API routine -- most of the OpenVMS text editors have a L >   callable interface -- and, when done editing, then call the SMG routine J >   that will restore the SMG display state (SMG$RESTORE_PHYSICAL_SCREEN).     celtic $ type edtrtns.c  #include <stdlib.h>_ #include <string.h>_ #include <stat.h>  #include <ssdef.h> #include <descrip.h> #include <edt$routines.h>   D /* EDT$EDIT - Edit a file                                         */D /*                                                                */D /* status = EDT$EDIT (in_file [,out_file] [,com_file] [,jou_file] */D /*              [,options] [,fileio] [,workio] [,xlate] )         */D /*                                                                */D /*  in_file  - Input file specification                           */D /*  out_file - Output file specification                          */D /*  com_file - Startup command file specification                 */D /*  jou_file - Journal file specification                         */D /*  options  - Options for edit operation                         */D /*  fileio   - Bound procedure value for file I/O routine         */D /*  workio   - Bound procedure value for work I/O routine         */D /*  xlate    - Bound procedure value for XLATE routine            */  : /* unfortunately this bitmask is not defined in the header  */r  & #define EDTOPTION_RECOVER     (1 << 0)& #define EDTOPTION_COMMAND     (1 << 1)& #define EDTOPTION_NOJOURNAL   (1 << 2)& #define EDTOPTION_NOOUTPUT    (1 << 3)& #define EDTOPTION_NOCOMMAND   (1 << 4)& #define EDTOPTION_NOCREATE    (1 << 5)   typedef unsigned long CONDVAL;     CONDVAL CallEDT(D         char *pcInputFilespec,       /* r : the file to be edited */G         char *pcCommandFilespec,     /* r : the startup command file */oO         unsigned long nOptions       /* r : bitmask of EDTOPTION_XXXX values */e )n {y         CONDVAL nStatus;(         struct dsc$descriptor sFilespec;'         struct dsc$descriptor sCommand; 0         struct dsc$descriptor *pvCommand = NULL;         struct stat sBefore;         struct stat sAfter;r  2         sFilespec.dsc$a_pointer = pcInputFilespec;:         sFilespec.dsc$w_length  = strlen(pcInputFilespec);0         sFilespec.dsc$b_dtype   = DSC$K_DTYPE_T;0         sFilespec.dsc$b_class   = DSC$K_CLASS_S;  (         if (pcCommandFilespec != NULL) {;                 sCommand.dsc$a_pointer = pcCommandFilespec;oC                 sCommand.dsc$w_length  = strlen(pcCommandFilespec); 7                 sCommand.dsc$b_dtype   = DSC$K_DTYPE_T;i7                 sCommand.dsc$b_class   = DSC$K_CLASS_S; &                 pvCommand = &sCommand;	         }o  G         /* search for the specified file (clear out any context first).a2          * the reason for this is explained below.          */n0         if (stat(pcInputFilespec, &sBefore) < 0)	         {h%                 sBefore.st_ctime = 0;b	         } Z         nStatus = edt$edit(&sFilespec, NULL, pvCommand, NULL, nOptions, NULL, NULL, NULL);         if ((nStatus & 1) != 0) 	         {tK                 /* the edit was successful, but EDT returns the same statusyL                  * whether the user "quits" or "exits", so we have to searchR                  * for the specified file again:  if the two creation times match,M                  * then we will assume that the user quit; otherwise assume au(                  * new file was created.                  */ 7                 if (stat(pcInputFilespec, &sAfter) < 0)x                 {n,                         sAfter.st_ctime = 0;                 }i8                 if (sBefore.st_ctime == sAfter.st_ctime)                 {n2                         nStatus = SS$_NOTMODIFIED;                 }0	         }            return nStatus;a }v  	 int main(o         int argc,a         char *argv[] )F {5@         return CallEDT(argv[1], (argc > 2) ? argv[2] : NULL, 0); }n	 celtic $ i     ok dpma -- b3 David P. Murphy          http://www.myths.com/~dpm/e- systems programmer        ftp://ftp.myths.compC                          mailto:dpm@myths.com            (personal) C COGITO ERGO DISCLAMO     mailto:dmurphy@ac-tech.com          (work)t   ------------------------------   Date: 05 Aug 2000 00:45:26 GMT' From: dashw459@aol.comeatspam (Doug W.)c$ Subject: The High Cost of Tech Books: Message-ID: <20000804204526.11710.00004060@ng-md1.aol.com>  K Walking down the aisle at work my eyes focused on a beautiful book lying ontN Seagal's desk.  Seagal is one of our summer interns from India whose real nameM no one can pronounce.  We nicknamed him Seagal after a famous matial artist. eK Seagal has no interest in martial arts but he does like interesting books.  J This book had a bright blue cover with a large red 'C'  printed diagonally across the cover.l  L Having nothing more interesting than work, I invaded Seagal's cube, took hisN chair and began browsing the book.  I quickly realized I was reading K&R's TheN C Programming Language.  The bright blue cover had me convinced I had stumbledO on a new edition.  But after several minutes I had not detected any differenceshF from my own copy of the book with the typical white cover.  I was just/ beginning to buckle down when Seagal showed up.   O An American would have thrown me out of his cube, but Segal proudly asked me ifoL I knew what I was reading.  I told him its K&R's book with slightly inferiorJ paper and a beautiful cover.  Segal pointed out 3 tiny 'E's on the cover. M These stand for Eastern Economy Edition.  He had paid a little over 4 dollarsdM for his book which is identical in content to the one Borders currently sellsr for 40 dollars.g  I To make a long story short almost all technical books from major AmericangI publishers are legally available in India at mind numbing discounts.  TheiO publishers realize they have a zero probablity of selling a full priced book inoO India.  Faced with a 100% chance of piracy  they have elected to collect a tinysF royalty for essentially no work.  They license out the manufacture andM distribution.  All books are printed on recycled paper.  Quality is ok.  SomecN of the books are stamped "Not for sale in North America", whatever that means.  H All of this has thrown my mind into economic confusion.  Not even cleverO arguments from the consultants at work is helping.  What is a fair price?  WhatrH is competition in a global economy?   Can software be EEEd?  How can oneI possibly own an idea?  What would I do if that guy looking for the sourceeL listings CDs had posted a mailing address?  Thank goodness there are laws to. prevent the confused from acting improperly.     ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2000 20:59 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)41 Subject: Re: Trouble with the Intel Ethernet ship5, Message-ID: <4AUG200020590393@gerg.tamu.edu>  3 "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net> writes...-- }Can anyone tell me what an ethernet ship is?L  9 You can surf on the web, so why not sail on the ethernet?-   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 14:33:21 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>@  Subject: Re: VMS Vs any other OS, Message-ID: <398B0C6E.32FA0ABB@videotron.ca>   "Mike E. Fackler" wrote:E > hard time seeing the advantage to the VMS OS. What exactly are it'seM > strengths over other OS? Why would an industry choose it over anything else # > in general and W2K in particular?o  I Microsoft software does not have quality and robustness to operate really G important stuff. NT (or whatever name it has this week) is a very youngeG operating system that still has a long way to catch up with establishedNM operating systems, and because of this, it has to move quickly. And by movingaK quickly, you cannot expect Microsoft (especially them) to have a relatively)# bug free and well designed product.a  J More mature operating systems are much more stable because they have had aM feature-rich environment for a long time and were able to progress slowly andr# be debugged as features were added.m  K In terms of VMS, apart from being very robust, it also has features such askH clustering that are still unmateched by the industry (who are desperatlyK trying to catch up). VMS's clustering technology started in the early 1980s K and is still very far ahead of others, and because it has taken its time toiL mature to its current state, it is very robust and solid. VMS engineers haveH also spent a lot of time ensuring that data integrity is maintained in aA cluster, something which I am not sure Microsoft understands yet.u  N VMS is not a fancy OS with bells and whistles that is sold by marketing. It isG a solid one selected by (unfortunatly) a few who know its strengths andaN require something serious. It is well documented and has a very rich scripting@ language (DCL) which lends itself very well to automating tasks.  M I beleive that the medical industry is one of the remaining VMS markets whereiR the software available on VMS is better than what is available on other platforms.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 13:39:14 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>p  Subject: Re: VMS Vs any other OS8 Message-ID: <8mf2eh$m3i$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  H And speaking of hospital systems, don't forget about Cerner on VMS also.   Dave...r  - <norm.raphael@jamesbury.com> wrote in message-. news:C2256931.005F9CD5.00@jklh21.valmet.com... >0 > , > On Fri, 4 Aug 2000, Mike E. Fackler wrote: >KL > >   My reading has recently taken me out of the Intel world and into otherH > > type systems. (OS/400 and OpenVMS) I don't mean for this question to start arK > > war, but being so indoctrinated in a Win type OS (Win/2000) I am having  aPG > > hard time seeing the advantage to the VMS OS. What exactly are it's J > > strengths over other OS? Why would an industry choose it over anything else% > > in general and W2K in particular?l >,K > I believe he mentioned a medical site.  Someone who knows should tell him  abouto > the virtues of DSMumps.h >  >n >    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2000 18:44:01 GMTi2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)  Subject: Re: VMS Vs any other OS6 Message-ID: <8mf2th$d1o$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  c In article <COAi5.819$yq6.73088@cletus.bright.net>, "Mike E. Fackler" <mfackler@bright.net> writes:cI :  My reading has recently taken me out of the Intel world and into othergM :type systems. (OS/400 and OpenVMS) I don't mean for this question to start a J :war, but being so indoctrinated in a Win type OS (Win/2000) I am having aD :hard time seeing the advantage to the VMS OS. What exactly are it'sL :strengths over other OS? Why would an industry choose it over anything else" :in general and W2K in particular?  F   In no particular order, here are some of the salient features of the   OpenVMS operating system...a  I   Multi-user interactive user support, full shared-resources clustering, iG   uptime, robust file system with individual volume limits circa one TBsF   (and thousands of volumes), huge system performance and application D   scaling, networked GUI interface, 64-bit flat virtual addressing, F   built-in tools for local BACKUP and recovery, far better "DLL-like" K   support for modular coding and distributions, built-in record management >H   support (heirarchical database), rolling upgrades of layered products G   and the operating system in cluster environments (continuous uptime, hK   even with software upgrades), built-in batch-print capabilities, support  J   for a variety of networking protocols (COM, SMB, NFS, IP, DECnet, X.25, N   http, etc), remote network system logins, built-in system dump and analysis K   facilities, built-in multi-user security and auditing, built-in multiple hM   and mixed-language programming capabilities, good documentation, orderable oL   CD-ROM source listings of the operating system internals and source code, L   process and engineering that targets the avoidance of introducing securityK   problems and typical virus infection paths, built-in system tuning tools,wI   built-in application debugging and application dump tools, support for  E   symmetric multiprocessing environments of up to 32 CPUs in a singletG   system (and up to 96+ nodes in a cluster), built-in standard product eJ   installation tools and associated product installation packaging tools, G   a central goal of upward-compatibility of user-mode applications and oI   tools over OpenVMS releases, support for systems with 256 gigabytes of rH   physical memory, available full operating system and hardware support    from a single source, etc.    K   Continuous OpenVMS system uptimes of over ten years are not unheard of.  hJ   Some of these systems -- those configured in clusters -- can be running D   current OpenVMS releases, with very long cluster uptimes, with the   rolling-upgrade capabilties.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Aug 2000 22:28:22 -0500e9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)=  Subject: Re: VMS Vs any other OS+ Message-ID: <Ye1N6LEbuao8@eisner.decus.org>   c In article <COAi5.819$yq6.73088@cletus.bright.net>, "Mike E. Fackler" <mfackler@bright.net> writes:t  J >    If it helps any I have a prospect for a entry level IT job at a localI > hospital who's main system runs VMS.  I'm kinda just wondering why they= > would have chosen that.=  = When equipment goes down, it is bad publicity for a hospital. = Even if that equipment does not control patient life support,e= it makes the public wonder whether the life support equipmente is any better.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 21:16:58 -07000! From: Koloth <koloth@tmisnet.com>r  Subject: Re: VMS Vs any other OS+ Message-ID: <398B953A.7AD3349F@tmisnet.com>c  L I work for a company that deals with medical systems written in DSM (Digital Standard Mumps)fP Our customer thought they could save money by converting to a PC version running unixS Two Alpha machines were replaced by 12 or so PC's.  The customer has since switchedn back to OpenVMSl) and no longer have any of the PC systems.L  S I hear that other people that had ventured into using NT and are now switching backa to OpenVMS.f2 Hype doesn't cut it when you need to do real work.  O There is a lot to be said for reliability of the OS and the hardware. You pay a- little more but you sleep0 better at nights.m   Regards. Cass Witkowski  ! norm.raphael@jamesbury.com wrote:c  , > On Fri, 4 Aug 2000, Mike E. Fackler wrote: >bL > >   My reading has recently taken me out of the Intel world and into otherP > > type systems. (OS/400 and OpenVMS) I don't mean for this question to start aM > > war, but being so indoctrinated in a Win type OS (Win/2000) I am having arG > > hard time seeing the advantage to the VMS OS. What exactly are it'suO > > strengths over other OS? Why would an industry choose it over anything elseR% > > in general and W2K in particular?P >oQ > I believe he mentioned a medical site.  Someone who knows should tell him about  > the virtues of DSMumps.,   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 21:24:56 -0700 ! From: Koloth <koloth@tmisnet.com>_  Subject: Re: VMS Vs any other OS+ Message-ID: <398B9718.915635CB@tmisnet.com>n  P If you look at the profit model of Microsoft.  They only make money if they sellO new versions of their software.  They make no money from fixing bugs!  The onlyoQ way they can sell new versions of the software is to constantly add new features.   S So you can end up with software that has lots of features but may also have lots ofe bugs.@T Look at MS Word that went form 300 commands to over 1300 commands.  How many of them are really useful?  S Compare this model to companies that license the software and also charge an annual Q maintenance fee.  This annual fee allowed the company to fix bugs and provide newt	 features.sN The software from these companies from my experience tend to be of much higher quality.     JF Mezei wrote:v   > "Mike E. Fackler" wrote:G > > hard time seeing the advantage to the VMS OS. What exactly are it's O > > strengths over other OS? Why would an industry choose it over anything else % > > in general and W2K in particular?i >gK > Microsoft software does not have quality and robustness to operate reallyGI > important stuff. NT (or whatever name it has this week) is a very younghI > operating system that still has a long way to catch up with established<O > operating systems, and because of this, it has to move quickly. And by moving M > quickly, you cannot expect Microsoft (especially them) to have a relatively % > bug free and well designed product.T >nL > More mature operating systems are much more stable because they have had aO > feature-rich environment for a long time and were able to progress slowly and % > be debugged as features were added.- >pM > In terms of VMS, apart from being very robust, it also has features such assJ > clustering that are still unmateched by the industry (who are desperatlyM > trying to catch up). VMS's clustering technology started in the early 1980s M > and is still very far ahead of others, and because it has taken its time to N > mature to its current state, it is very robust and solid. VMS engineers haveJ > also spent a lot of time ensuring that data integrity is maintained in aC > cluster, something which I am not sure Microsoft understands yet.  >*P > VMS is not a fancy OS with bells and whistles that is sold by marketing. It isI > a solid one selected by (unfortunatly) a few who know its strengths andOP > require something serious. It is well documented and has a very rich scriptingB > language (DCL) which lends itself very well to automating tasks. >eO > I beleive that the medical industry is one of the remaining VMS markets where T > the software available on VMS is better than what is available on other platforms.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.434 ************************