1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 07 Aug 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 438       Contents:( Re: GTK+ now available for OpenVMS Alpha- Re: How to copy the current screen to a file? * MGFTP V2.6-3 is now available for download- OpenVMS ALPHA Port Of AOL Instant Messenger ? 1 Re: OpenVMS ALPHA Port Of AOL Instant Messenger ?  Re: Quality  Re: Quality  Re: Quality  Re: Quality ' Re: Questions about memory (DS20, ES40) 4 QUIT SMOKING IN 7 DAYS!! 96% SUCCESS RATE!! (130127) UCX 4.1, OpenVMS 7.1-1h2(??)2 Re: Updated FORRTL_TV - Translated VAX Fortran RTL, Re: VAX 4000/90 ... Output to Graphics or VT, Re: VAX 4000/90 ... Output to Graphics or VT Re: VMS Vs any other OS 2 Re: What Can I Do With An AlphaServer 1000A 4/233?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 19:24:48 GMT 4 From: "Peter Ljungberg" <peter.p.ljungberg@telia.se>1 Subject: Re: GTK+ now available for OpenVMS Alpha 4 Message-ID: <4Yij5.93$N8a.171051008@newsb.telia.net>   Great! Where is it ?  	 >>> ^P.Lj     4 "Doug W." <dashw459@aol.comeatspam> wrote in message4 news:20000804204914.11710.00004062@ng-md1.aol.com...E > << Compaq is pleased to provide the GTK+ for OpenVMS Alpha, an open  source, ? > free software library for creating graphical user interfaces.  >  >>  > C > So how far off is a port of the GIMP?  VMS just became a lot more  interesting. >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 00:08:33 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 6 Subject: Re: How to copy the current screen to a file?, Message-ID: <398E363C.DF3E3433@videotron.ca>   Robert Deininger wrote: < > >  Does any body know if it's posiible to copy the current9 > > screen to a text file by means of a command procedure  > > or an exe file or not?  N If you're talking about a pure VT terminal, then the only sure way to dump anyN screen contents to a file is to use the "print screen" button of the terminal,M and send the output to a port on the computer (instead of a printer) and have B a process there waiting to capture such info an dump it to a file.  J If you are using a PC with terminal emulator, then the emulator itself mayL have a built-in function to do that. If you are using DECwindows, there is a function to do that as well.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Aug 00 23:24:23 -0500 ) From: goathunter@wku.edu (Hunter Goatley) 3 Subject: MGFTP V2.6-3 is now available for download ' Message-ID: <FT1dZeR$FquA@axp1.wku.edu>   C MGFTP V2.6-3 is now available for download.  MGFTP is an FTP client E and server for OpenVMS VAX and OpenVMS Alpha.  It runs on all the VMS A TCP/IP stacks, and is an ideal replacement for the FTP client and A server that comes with TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS (which doesn't + support STRU VMS mode, among other things).    You can get MGFTP V2.6-3 from:  ,     ftp://ftp.wku.edu/vms/fileserv/mgftp.zip4     ftp://ftp.process.com/wku/vms/fileserv/mgftp.zip+     ftp://ftp.madgoat.com/madgoat/mgftp.zip    or via:   !     http://www2.wku.edu/fileserv/      Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ ; <goathunter@GOATLEY.COM>     http://www.goatley.com/hunter/ P ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------    New Features and Bug fixes in MGFTP V2.6-3   4    o  The default window size used by MGFTP has been5       increased from 6144 bytes to 17520. This change 8       should speed up file transfers over some links, in:       some cases dramatically. For example, transfers over:       an ISDN may be twice as fast as in previous versions       of MGFTP.   6       A new logical, MADGOAT_FTP_WINDOW_SIZE, has been2       added to allow the default window size to be3       overridden. The logical can be defined in any 6       logical name table, allowing users to override a       system default.   4    o  Previous versions of MGFTP did not set the DCL9       symbol $STATUS when COPY/FTP was used and it failed 8       for whatever reason. This has been corrected. Note:       that DIR/FTP may or may not set an error exit status:       if a file does not exist-some servers, including the9       MGFTP server, do not return an error for a DIR of a %       non-existent file, for example.   9    o  When MGFTP was invoked via DIR/FTP, the case of the 8       specified filename was not preserved. This problem       has been corrected.    [End of announcement]    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Aug 2000 19:46:13 GMT ) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) 6 Subject: OpenVMS ALPHA Port Of AOL Instant Messenger ?' Message-ID: <8mkfa5$5it$1@joe.rice.edu> . Keywords: aol,java,instant,messenger,vms,alpha  > Is anyone working on a port of AOL Instant Messenger (AIM) to  OpenVMS ALPHA ?    From:   8   http://www.aim.aol.com/beta/download.java.generic.html=   AOL Instant Messenger - Download Instructions(Generic JAVA)   ;   "Please note that the software on this page is considered     extremely experimental.    6    Click on the link below to download the AOL Instant;    Messenger (TM) for Java. This distribution REQUIRES that <    you already have the Java Development Kit (JDK) installed;    and working on your machine. This distribution will ONLY 6    work on UNIX variants, and will not work on Windows5    95/NT or Macintosh machines. Currently AOL Instant <    Messenger (TM) requires JDK 1.1.x or higher; we no longer    support JDK 1.0.2."   There's a FAQ for AIM at:      http://www.aol.com/aim/    AOL Instant Messenger   I As well as a Linux version, based on the published Toc protocol from AOL:      http://www.marko.net/gaim/   GAIM  D AIM appears to be a combination of the unix talk & finger commands, 0 plus other features. No AOL account is required.  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 13:16:10 -0700 1 From: Vance Haemmerle <vance@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US> : Subject: Re: OpenVMS ALPHA Port Of AOL Instant Messenger ?3 Message-ID: <398D651A.7D81FB2D@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US>    Jerry Leslie wrote:  > ? > Is anyone working on a port of AOL Instant Messenger (AIM) to  > OpenVMS ALPHA ?   <   I believe that it will be part of the Mozilla browser.  So3 perhaps it will be included in the OpenVMS release?    -- Vance Haemmerle  vance@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 15:16:28 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>  Subject: Re: Quality( Message-ID: <8mkdf5$sti$1@pyrite.mv.net>  2 <paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au> wrote in message/ news:01JSNSEMLQCI002N3K@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au...  > Bill Todd wrote,C > >David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message * > >news:398C4632.5C7B269F@earthlink.net... > >  > >... > >  > >> But then, what do I know? > > ? > >Clearly only a minute percentage of what you think you know.  > > 	 > >- bill  > >  > >> > >> --  > >> David J. Dachtera > >> dba DJE Systems > >> http://www.djesys.com/  > >>? > >> Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: $ > >> http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ > J > Do we really need this amount of personal flaming on this NG?  Once this starts,  > the bandwidth gets very high.   L Actually, I thought my last response was admirably bandwidth-efficient - andJ while I have to admit that saying nothing would have been even more so, itH would have left his parting question dangling (insert appropriate smiley here - I don't use them).    > G > I will admit to doing the same to a certain person on occassions, but 	 hopefully J > not enough to enflame the NG.  The person I flamed had no content in any of his- > posts, unlike David and sometimes yourself.  > I > Cannot you accept that just because someone disagrees with you they are  not L > moronic?  David certainly comes over to me as a very erudite person for/in this > NG.   L David epitomizes the drawbacks of combining significant memory capacity withI minimal analytical ability:  he routinely generalizes from the particular E without taking into account the details of a discussion, resulting in G extreme positions which he then proceeds to defend with ever-increasing K irrelevancy (and total disregard for any differing viewpoint, regardless of & its merit and/or supporting evidence).  J I get annoyed with myself for getting sucked into useless discussions withJ him, especially since it has happened more than once in the past.  But theJ fact that he's reasonably articulate always seems to suggest that he oughtI to be capable of doing better, and that progress might be just around the  corner.   I But I'll try to remember to be less optimistic next time, since I have no 1 particular wish to waste either my time or yours.    - bill   >  > Regards, Paddy >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 16:07:08 -0500 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>  Subject: Re: Quality- Message-ID: <398DD37C.6D930200@earthlink.net>    Bill Todd wrote: [snip]N > David epitomizes the drawbacks of combining significant memory capacity withK > minimal analytical ability:  he routinely generalizes from the particular G > without taking into account the details of a discussion, resulting in I > extreme positions which he then proceeds to defend with ever-increasing M > irrelevancy (and total disregard for any differing viewpoint, regardless of ( > its merit and/or supporting evidence). > L > I get annoyed with myself for getting sucked into useless discussions withL > him, especially since it has happened more than once in the past.  But theL > fact that he's reasonably articulate always seems to suggest that he oughtK > to be capable of doing better, and that progress might be just around the 	 > corner.    Bill,   F Would you at least be willing to concede that you're not only one hereH with a valid opinion, regardless of the level of "quality" (the originalF subject of this thread) which you may happen find (or not find, as the case may be) in that opinion?    K > But I'll try to remember to be less optimistic next time, since I have no 3 > particular wish to waste either my time or yours.   B Well, if you can make a statement like that, perhaps *I* was being* overly optimistic in my previous question.  D Your thoroughness in your research and your adeptness at debate bothH illustrate a high level of intelligence. However, your inflexibility andE your refusal to consider that others may have a conflicting, but none > the less valid, opinion and/or paradigm does your demonstrated  intelligence a grave disservice.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 18:20:49 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>  Subject: Re: Quality( Message-ID: <8mko8i$4cu$1@pyrite.mv.net>  @ David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message' news:398DD37C.6D930200@earthlink.net...  > Bill Todd wrote: > [snip]K > > David epitomizes the drawbacks of combining significant memory capacity  withB > > minimal analytical ability:  he routinely generalizes from the
 particularI > > without taking into account the details of a discussion, resulting in K > > extreme positions which he then proceeds to defend with ever-increasing L > > irrelevancy (and total disregard for any differing viewpoint, regardless of* > > its merit and/or supporting evidence). > > I > > I get annoyed with myself for getting sucked into useless discussions  withJ > > him, especially since it has happened more than once in the past.  But the H > > fact that he's reasonably articulate always seems to suggest that he ought I > > to be capable of doing better, and that progress might be just around  the  > > corner.  >  > Bill,  > H > Would you at least be willing to concede that you're not only one hereJ > with a valid opinion, regardless of the level of "quality" (the originalH > subject of this thread) which you may happen find (or not find, as the > case may be) in that opinion?   G In the light of my paragraph above, it's hard not to be suspicious of a I troll here - especially as I've just said (below) that I'd try to be less  optimistic.   I But if it is a troll and you get your jollies that way, it really doesn't J matter to me (hey, if I can bring you a bit of enjoyment, I don't begrudge< it).  And if not, its temperate quality deserves a response.  J Of course I know others here have valid opinions:  I've learned a lot hereJ over time.  But I can't remember learning anything from you, in this or inJ previous discussions, save that I shouldn't waste my time (and I obviously didn't learn that very well).   I You clearly thrive on debate.  But it's not clear you learn anything from H it - or, by persisting without advancing, bring relevant material to the& discussion that others can learn from.   > J > > But I'll try to remember to be less optimistic next time, since I have no5 > > particular wish to waste either my time or yours.  > D > Well, if you can make a statement like that, perhaps *I* was being, > overly optimistic in my previous question. > F > Your thoroughness in your research and your adeptness at debate bothJ > illustrate a high level of intelligence. However, your inflexibility andG > your refusal to consider that others may have a conflicting, but none @ > the less valid, opinion and/or paradigm does your demonstrated" > intelligence a grave disservice.  K I have the quaint notion that most questions moderately related to fact can L be resolved to the satisfaction of all the parties involved if those partiesF are motivated to understand each other rather than just to press theirI initial point of view.  But I do need to work on recognizing when this is J futile *before* I get disgusted, since continuing beyond that point is notK often enough useful to compensate for the aggravation (to me or to others).   L Something else I may need to work on is assuming too much common sub-text inL a discussion.  I'm very careful with my words, but people aren't always veryL careful reading them, and sometimes rampage wildly off into the boondocks inJ reaction to something I never said, never to return to the topic no matterL how much I try to get back there.  If I have time, I'll try to put somethingL less prone to such misinterpretation together - since 'quality' clearly went! off the rails almost immediately.    - bill   >  > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > < > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Aug 2000 18:50:07 -0400 / From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)  Subject: Re: Quality* Message-ID: <8mkq2v$q1o$1@lisa.gemair.com>  O In article <8mko8i$4cu$1@pyrite.mv.net>, Bill Todd <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote:  > A >David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message ( >news:398DD37C.6D930200@earthlink.net... >   > [much meta discussion snipped]  E You know guys, the one who has the last word doesn't _really_ win the 	 argument.    >- bill  >  >> >> --  >> David J. Dachtera >> dba DJE Systems >> http://www.djesys.com/  >>= >> Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: " >> http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ >  >    -Jordan Henderson  jordan@greenapple.com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 22:08:14 -0400- From: "Island Computers" <sales@islandco.com> 0 Subject: Re: Questions about memory (DS20, ES40). Message-ID: <sos67pkg63a50@corp.supernews.com>  3 The DS10 DS20 DS20e and ES40 memory is all the same      The 54 class pn's are the same   David   / "Ray T." <lists@aik.tec.sc.us> wrote in message ' news:394EA579.170B27B5@aik.tec.sc.us...  > Rudolf Wingert wrote:  > > 
 > > Hello, > > D > > I do have some questions about the memory for the DS20 and ES40.E > > I did see, that there is DIMM with 512 MB for the DS10. Can I use G > > four of them per bank on the DS20? Also there are 1024MB DIMMs out. ) > > Are they also usable within the DS20? K > > Does anybody know the MHz of DS20 memory? The DS10 memory (SX-MS310-xy) H > > is desribed as 100MHz and the same for XP900 as 87MHz. What's right?I > > If I am right, then the memory for the ES40 are a bankmodul with foureJ > > DIMMs. Can I buy a cheap one (e.g. 128MB for an ES40 AlphaStation) andH > > exchange the DIMMs with higher sized cheap standard industry memory? > > " > > TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert >n > Hi Rudolf, >tG > I just know the DS10.  It has four slots yes, but when you buy memory(E > for it from Compaq, you get a pair.  So the max memory is 2GB which E > you buy as a qty of two 1GB parts which come as two pairs of memorynH > cards.  Yes you can use an industry standard memory IF it is the rightI > type and specs.  BUT to be safe, it would be best to stick to companies J > that are approved for maintenance by Compaq and make memory specificallyB > marked for the computer you have, such as DataRam and Camintonn.H > Kingston also marks memory as made for DS-10, etc.  Note that the part2 > numbers are different between DS-10 and DS-20's. >7 > Ray T.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 16:58:34 -0400 (EDT).; From: "hollyj31486@astratec.net" <hollyj31486@astratec.net>0= Subject: QUIT SMOKING IN 7 DAYS!! 96% SUCCESS RATE!! (130127)+$ Message-ID: <31223.82854@brmail.com>  = Be a Non-Smoker in as little as 7 Days !!!  With Finally-Free   * Finally-Free  Works 96% of the Time!        / Supresses your craving for smoking, AND Eating!   / Significant Smoking Reduction in just 48 hours!01 Your system detoxified & Nicotine-Free in 7 days!.$ The Patch Works Only 22% of the Time! The Gum Works Only 6% Of The Timef# Finally-Free Works  96% of The Timev1 100% Satisfaction Guarantee! Or your money back!! B Quit Smoking Immediately                                             ORDER NOW!!a click below to find out more5 http://www.aboveworld.com/internet/jac/smokefree.htmlu  + Order Now. . . 100% Money Back Guaranteed!!a       This message is being sent to you in compliance with the proposed Federal legislation for commercial e-mail (S.1618-SECTION 301).  "Pursuant to Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618, furthery transmissions to you by the sender of this e-mail may be stopped at no cost to you by clicking vnc@awz.com?subject=removeu  , ******************************************** 20871s   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 22:23:32 -0400 . From: Michael Austin <maustin@nc.prestige.net>% Subject: UCX 4.1, OpenVMS 7.1-1h2(??)./ Message-ID: <398E1DA4.E0873B94@nc.prestige.net>F  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------B57E606D9F7630ED6853BB5A* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   E I have an Alpha 3000-600 (AUI or twisted-pair ) that I cannot seem to G get to communicate.  When I attempt to ping it's own IP address, I get:r  , UCX-I-LOOPINACT, <address> does not respond.  F I don't believe this has ever been configured before and it has been aH long time since I had to actually configure UCX, but I am farily certain8 that most things are correct.  BTW, DECNET and LAT work.  
 Any ideas. Michael Austin  & --------------B57E606D9F7630ED6853BB5A- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;O  name="maustin.vcf"t Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit-, Content-Description: Card for Michael Austin  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="maustin.vcf"V   begin:vcard  n:Austin;Michael s tel;work:704-947-1089e x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Michael Austin, Inch
 adr:;;;;;; version:2.1s+ email;internet:michaelaustininc@hotmail.com  title:Presidenta x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Michael E. Austin	 end:vcardD  ( --------------B57E606D9F7630ED6853BB5A--   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 01:11:06 GMT . From: "Steve Lionel" <Steve.Lionel@compaq.com>; Subject: Re: Updated FORRTL_TV - Translated VAX Fortran RTL C Message-ID: <K0oj5.556$4T.25664@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>m  > "Vance Haemmerle" <vance@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US> wrote in message- news:398B7AC2.5A36C233@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US...nE > > A kit to install the updated translated FORRTL_TV is available at  > > J ftp://ftp.compaq.com/pub/products/fortran/OpenVMS/FORRTL_TV-T0100-1.zipexe >eJ >   I couldn't find this file, I suppose you mean FORRTL_TV-T0600-1.ZIPEXE  F Oops!  Yes, sorry!  I changed the name of it just before "publishing".   Steve Lionel Compaq Fortran Engineering http://www.compaq.com/fortrann   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 16:19:12 -0500e7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>05 Subject: Re: VAX 4000/90 ... Output to Graphics or VTe- Message-ID: <398DD650.716A478B@earthlink.net>M   moi_is_me wrote: > F > >> It could depend on which graphics adapter you have. The VS4000/906 > >> that I have has a D connector with 3 big shielded  > >> pins (red, green and blue).E > The three small pins i see (about 4-5 mm) located alongside a small 3 > picture depicting a monitor are labelled A1/A2/A3   E What you're looking at there is very likely to be RGB, Sync-on-green.   tC > >> The cable is a BC29G-xx (where xx is the length) which has BNCA# > >> connectors on the monitor end.aD > Don't BNC have three ends (RGB) rather than the single end seen onB > modern monitors ?, ie i want to use the 4000/90 with the monitorH > i normally use with my ComPaq/NT-BOX - VGA i guess you would call it ?  F Well, what you would need is some kind of adapter that can convert theE RGB signal to something suitable for a VGA type monitor. Blackbox.com C may have something you can use. They used to have all kinds of sucht things.n   --   David J. Dachterav dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/u   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 22:16:21 GMTi' From: moi_is_me <moi_is_me@my-deja.com>r5 Subject: Re: VAX 4000/90 ... Output to Graphics or VT ) Message-ID: <8mko3j$rqo$1@nnrp1.deja.com>m   Thank you all for replying ...  > Someone mentioned i needed a BC29G-xx cable. I see a couple on9 eBay, though both look the SAME one is BC29G where as the 1 other is a BC29H-2E rev. B01 ... is the BC29H ok?n  @ BTW - As luck would have it, my P110 ComPaq Monitor for my DS-100 has BNC inputs ... so the monitor is now sorted.   Again thanks    < ============================================================- In article <398DD650.716A478B@earthlink.net>,-:   "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote: > moi_is_me wrote: > >dH > > >> It could depend on which graphics adapter you have. The VS4000/908 > > >> that I have has a D connector with 3 big shielded" > > >> pins (red, green and blue).G > > The three small pins i see (about 4-5 mm) located alongside a smalla5 > > picture depicting a monitor are labelled A1/A2/A39 >aG > What you're looking at there is very likely to be RGB, Sync-on-green.  >CE > > >> The cable is a BC29G-xx (where xx is the length) which has BNC-% > > >> connectors on the monitor end.dF > > Don't BNC have three ends (RGB) rather than the single end seen onD > > modern monitors ?, ie i want to use the 4000/90 with the monitorH > > i normally use with my ComPaq/NT-BOX - VGA i guess you would call it ?o > H > Well, what you would need is some kind of adapter that can convert theG > RGB signal to something suitable for a VGA type monitor. Blackbox.comtE > may have something you can use. They used to have all kinds of suchm	 > things.  >l > -- > David J. Dachteras > dba DJE Systemsr > http://www.djesys.com/ >I< > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  >o    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.d   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 22:40:29 -0700f6 From: ChuckT <chuck.taylorNOchSPAM@vishay.com.invalid>  Subject: Re: VMS Vs any other OS9 Message-ID: <0725d5d0.68f5ca60@usw-ex0106-048.remarq.com>i  G The problem with an open-ended question like "which operating system isnC the best one" or "how can you justify this operating system or thatoE one" is that the discussion quickly turns into a religous arguement. hG Without going that way let me give you my two cents worth of opinion...   G Each operating system that has been created was created for a purpose. fB Therefore,  most operating systems fit into some sort of niche and3 there have been a lot of operating systems already.n  B I like VMS or OpenVMS as it is now called.  It is almost a naturalB language environment where you use commands that are very close toF standard English to communicate with the computer.  It isn't quit thatF easy to use but it is easy enough that with the built in help function- most people can begin to use it very quickly.x  F I believe that there is a place for each of the operating systems thatC are extent today (with maybe just a couple of exceptions).  I don't-D believe that there is a "one-size-fits-all" answer yet.  Maybe there3 will be someday but it won't be what we have today.i  C I remember one operating system that was really interesting and had C some of the most innovative ideas in it that I have seen.  It had aoG command line interface or CLI that was called DWIM or "Do What I Mean"  E it was used on Xerox artificial intelligence workstations back in thesE early '80s.  If you typed in a command and mis-spelled something theneG the CLI would automatically correct the spelling for you and ask you iffG what you really meant was the corrected version or not.  Of course, you.G could do the same sort of thing with aliases in some O/Ss or symbols ori logicals in VMS.  F Today most O/Ss can be grouped into a few catagories.  The ProprietaryF O/Ss (like Windows, or VMS) and the Unix flavors (some are proprietaryF and some are not).  The biggest problem with Unix is that the commandsF are so obscure that they are hard to remember.  Basically, you have toG memorize them.  And there are so many command line modifiers that it iseE just simply beyond anyones ability to remember them all.  Then on topaF off that the help system isn't called help its called man pages.  EvenG the explainations of how the commands are used and what they do that is F provided in the man pages is obscure.  It has always been that way andF I suppose that it will remain that way too.  It is what is referred to  as part of the "Unix mentality".  A Then there is the question of what is Unix?  There are many, manyaE flavors of Unix.  All of them differ by various degrees.  There is anrG organization called the Open Group that has the authority to "brand" ansF operating system as a Unix operating system.  The branding is based onG whether or not the operating system can pass a series of tests.  I knowwB that Compaq Tru64 Unix has receive Unix95 branding and Solaris has@ received Unix98 branding.  Here is a URL to the Open Group site.   http://www.opengroup.org  B One interesting fact that might be of interest is that most of theC operating systems that are in use today pretty much all came from aDB common progenator.  Most of them were developed on the Digital PDPD series of computers.  For instance, the original Unix was created atG Bell labs on a PDP (I think it was a PDP-8 but I am not positive).  VMS G stands for Virtual Memory System and the first type of hardware that itcD was designed to work with was the Digital VAX computers.  VAX stands? for Virtual Address Extension with respect to the PDP family ofd? computers.  The PDP comptuers were 16 bit computers and the VAXaD computers are 32 bit machines.  The newest machines that VMS runs on' are the Compaq Alpha, 64 bit computers.h  F Another interesting bit of information is that most software developedF on the very first VAX computers will still run (probably would need toE be recompiled) on the newest VAX and Alpha computers.  I believe thatuE VMS runs on the widest range of computers of any O/S excepting Unix. t; From small desktop machines to departmental machines to bigt- refrigerator size servers in the data center.l  F VMS would probably be much more popular and would be in much wider use had a few things not occured.   G First, Digital and then Compaq had the attitude of "if we build it theyh@ will come" and as for advertising, the best discription of their? advertising technique that I have heard is that they use a very G effective form of "stealth marketing" designed to keep their productiond6 lines from being taxed too heavily by too many orders.  E The second thing that happened was that they didn't believe that UnixtF was ever going to amount to anything.  Ken Olsen, the former presidentF of Digital once said the "Unix, is snake oil".  They missed the windowF of opertunity then and have had a difficult time getting back on track every since.  F The third thing that happened was the move to open systems that caughtF the computer industry by surprise.  Digital was VERY proprietary aboutD their products and they were very closed.  There were many law suits; over patent infringments.  It was ugly and no one liked it.f  D The final thing was that Digital and now Compaq didn't (and doesn't)F know how to price anything correctly.  I believe that there was a timeF when you could not order anything from Digital for less than $500.00. E While other companies were giving away their O/Ss to get market sharenD Digital was boasting about how much market share they had.  Well notB for long and not anymore.  I think the hobbyist licenses should beB completely free.  Schools were dumping everything in favor of UnixF because it was free...  Not because it was better.  Budget not qualityF was the bottom line and Digital would not giveaway VMS.  They did haveG programs where if a school purchased hardware from them they would giveaG them a break on the software but it was still very expensive.  PCs wereh& cheap and Unix was free.  Go figure...  F Currently, there is still a large group of people who love VMS.  ThereF is another very large group of Unix priests and gurus.  And then thereE is WindowsNT.  We don't really need to talk about any form of WindowsoE before NT as they were not really operating systems but were actually G just exteremely simple, very stupid job schedulers.  I have to say thatoE there were actually some great operating systems before MS-DOS becamed: the de facto standard.  But MS-DOS was what I would call a= lowest-common-denominator solution.  I guess it satisfied the E requirements of the contract that MS had with IBM but it was (and is)t pretty pittiful.  D WindowsNT on the other hand is a true operating system and is thus aD lot more complex.  It was largely written by some of the same peopleD who wrote VMS long ago.  In a lot of ways it is a very stripped downG version of VMS (I just heard a giant agghhh in the background) but then-E again - when I consider what Unix is like, the best definition that InF have seen is that Unix is a subset of VMS, or even more precise VMS isE like a very large feature rich superset of Unix.  Unix is very simpletE compared to VMS.  It has very few (if any, depending on the flavor ofsC Unix) of the things that make VMS the "bet your business on it" O/Sa that it is..  G With all of that said: I want to make a point, and that is, most peopleeF like to use what they are familiar with and comfortable with.  This isE such a powerful force in most peoples lives that any discussion aboutmC another O/S being better immediately causes a "Holly Jehad" type of D reaction.  If you want to start a big arguement then just go into anF AIX (IBM Unix) shop and start telling people that some other flavor ofG Unix is better or better yet try the same experiment in s Solaris shop.u  D Once again, I think that an O/S is a tool.  My recommendation is use@ the right tool for the job.  VMS is great for a server but it isG terrible on the desktop.  But than again don't even think about runningiE a corporations most critical databases on an NT box.  It just doesn't.E have the reliability or scalability that is needed in a server but it ? does pretty well as a desktop system.  Unix and NT have so many G security problems that it is hard to go into it.  Unix does okay on the E desktop but doesn't have the richness of application software that NThG does.  The current boast for Unix is that it is really fast and it is. eD It is hard to use and it is hard to memorize all of the commands butD the GUI helps a lot.  However, most of the things that make a serverF secure, reliable and scalable just aren't there.  It is getting better@ but I personally don't believe that there is a Unix based systemF available that is as robust as VMS is on the server side.  The problemF with VMS is that a lot of software that used to be available on VMS is4 no longer available on VMS.  A point is case is SAP.  C A few years ago Digital started telling everyone that the only O/Ss E that would be used in a few years would be NT and Unix.  They sort of E shot themselves in the foot to help their dying Unix business.  TheretF were many VMS shops that said okay fine we will move off of VMS and goG with NT on our Alpha boxes instead (then they announced that they wouldf@ no longer support NT on Alpha).  It was like DEC and then CompaqG couldn't push people off of VMS fast enough.  I think that they finally C realized how stupid what they were doing was, but by then there wasa3 almost fatal damage done to the installed VMS base.0  E So this is how I see it.  WindowsNT or Unix on the desktop as needed.j@ OpenVMS or Unix in the middle tier - for application servers andF compute engines as needed.  Then OpenVMS, Unix or some other mainframe> type OS on the servers where the corporate jewels are located.  E Unix could be on all of the tiers but it may not be the best solutionNB in all cases.  For example, MS-Office doesn't run on Unix (not yet@ anyway) and Mentor Graphics Schematic Capture and Design system,G electronic engineering design software, runs best on a Unix workstations/ and I don't believe it available for WindowsNT.O  G I must say in the end that I too am a bit biased.  I like VMS.   VMS is G like a good old-friend.  It is easy to use and runs pretty much withoutoB any problems for long periods of times.  I worked on some VAX 9440G systems years ago that had a clock in them that had a date field of twocG digits.  We had to restart the system every 99 days or it would restartTG itself (nice little built in feature that always came around to exhibithE itself at quarter closing time for some reason).  See if you can find > an NT or even a Unix box that has been running for that long. G Muchless, longer.  the VAX 9000 was the only VMS system that I am aware-D of that had that problem.  I have seen VMS systems that have been upD and running for much, much longer than that.  Some have been running non-stop for years - literally.r  G This was a long reply to your questions but I also wanted to comment on-E the "religous wars" that are raging in this news group.  I would likeoE for everyone to please stop it.  Just be reasonable.  After all, theytD do make Fords, Chevys, Toyotas, and Porsches don't they.  They don'tC make Rambler cars anymore because of market changes or pressures oreF whatever.  Unix is older than VMS.  It is on its downhill side of lifeD too.  As are most other O/Ss - excepting NT.  Something else will beB coming along pretty soon that will make a lot of people happy I amG sure.  Wouldn't it be great to have a new O/S that behaved as nicely asD< VMS, with all its features and richness.  With the speed andG flexability of Unix and the richness of applications that are availableCF for NT?  I think it will happen as market pressure pushes us towards aG common O/S some time in the future.  And I'll bet it won't come from MS-G either.  The again, I wouldn't be surpirsed to find out that their is am? WindowsNT display environment that runs on top of Linux either.o  G Don't let yourself get sucked into one of these established religions. 69 Finding your own way is the only path to enlightenment...o  	 Good Luck0   Chuck Taylor# Sr. Global Infrastructure Developerm Vishay Siliconix    L * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *G The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!a   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 19:12:09 -0400S, From: taterskins@patriot.net (Ramon L. Tate); Subject: Re: What Can I Do With An AlphaServer 1000A 4/233?bD Message-ID: <taterskins-ya023480000608001912090001@news.patriot.net>  = In article <98rposgseog8p5us6l9jov1nv4te0d8o0g@4ax.com>, JMano <jman@urlgray.com> wrote:   4 > On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 19:50:50 -0400, David A Froble > <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote: >  > >Tim Llewellyn wrote:  > >> - > >> Jonathan McCormack wrote: > >, > >> > Jonathan9: > >> > (dreading having to carry it to the car, it's huge) > >tO > >Well, I can see this good ol' boy has never seen a VAX 8600 or VAX 8650. :-). > >7@ > >Never saw a 9000, so I don't know how big they (it) were/was. > >c > >Daves > G > 9000? Much huger. Same height and depth as a 8600 but almost twice asiE > wide. There was one cabinet that was taller than the rest, it had asF > funky display for system status. In this case the customer put theirG > company name on the display, which would otherwise show boot progress  > and error conditions.  > E > Although I've never seen one, I've heard the TOPS 10/20 series were  > even larger.  K The National Institutes of Health had a 3-processor DECsystem-10 setup thateJ took up nearly the entire basement of one of the Computer Center buildingsD back in the late '70s. Of course, most of the space was occupied (asJ someone else has mentioned) by RPxx "washing machine" disk drive cabs, butG the processor cabinet was pretty impressive, as I recall. Came completeoH with a paper tape reader/punch and dual DECtape units. LOGMAX was aroundJ 70, I think. Not bad for a 1 *microsecond* memory system (can't recall the6 cycle time, though - not enough gray cells left).  :-}  	 > Jman...p >  > jman@urlgray.com > 5 > No electrons were harmed in producing this message.    I'm really glad to hear that.m   -- i
 Ramon L. Tatem	 Casa Maa:= taterskins@patriot.net   "Skin" that "tater" before replying!k   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.438 ************************