1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 16 Aug 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 456       Contents:. Re: /float qualifier and resulting performance 4D10T vs Elsa GLoria Synergy7 Alpha versions of Digital's CAI/CBI products available? ; Re: Alpha versions of Digital's CAI/CBI products available?  Re: Caching RMS Block I/O  Re: Caching RMS Block I/O  Re: Caching RMS Block I/O  Re: CD-R Writing.  Re: CD-R Writing. * Re: Commitment to DII COE, missing pieces?* Re: Commitment to DII COE, missing pieces?$ Re: DECnet Plus copying time problem$ Re: DECnet Plus copying time problem Re: Downloading DECmigrate Re: Downloading DECmigrate File Headers Re: File Headers Re: File Headers Re: File Headers Re: File Headers Gnome replacing CDE?. Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD# Re: Ken Olson's "snake oil" comment # Re: Ken Olson's "snake oil" comment # Re: Ken Olson's "snake oil" comment , Re: Need help with PC to VMS File Transfers. openhack and VMS openhack challenge and VMS Re: openhack challenge and VMS Re: openhack challenge and VMS Re: openhack challenge and VMS Re: openhack challenge and VMS Re: openhack challenge and VMS Re: OpenVMS  7.3 Release Date  Re: OpenVMS  7.3 Release Date   Re: OpenVMS Patches Mailing List Re: OpenVMSware  Re: OpenVMSware & Re: OT: Re: Gases, Noble and Otherwise Re: PC-NFS ?. Re: Problem setting up YAHMAIL with OSU server. Re: Problem setting up YAHMAIL with OSU server9 Programmatic access to byte count rx/tx on TCP/IP socket.  Re: RMS Index Problem  Re: RMS Index Problem  Re: RMS Index Problem  Re: RMS Index Problem  Re: RMS Index Problem  Re: RMS Index Problem  Re: RMS Index Problem  Re: RMS Index Problem ' Re: UAF & PLAINTEXT PASSWORDS (VMS 7.1)   Re: VAX CXY08 maximum baud rates Re: VAX/VMS Image to Alpha/VMS+ VAXcluster Console System alternative icons + VAXcluster Console System alternative icons , Re: Very Large Global Section Memory Locking Re: VMS on a notebook ?  Re: VMS on a notebook ?  Re: VMS on a notebook ?  Re: VMS on a notebook ?  Re: VMS Vs any other OS  Re: VMS Vs any other OS  Re: VMS Vs any other OS  Re: VMS Vs any other OS  Re: VMS Vs any other OS $ Re: VMS vs unix (the true contender) Re: Web Base Telnet client( Re: Whilst on the subject of listings...	 X windows 
 RE: X windows  Re: [OT] Vax Hardware  Re: [OT] Vax Hardware   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 14:53:39 -0400 ( From: Ed Vogel <edward.vogel@compaq.com>7 Subject: Re: /float qualifier and resulting performance * Message-ID: <399991B3.401760D5@compaq.com>   Jouk Jansen wrote:  	 > Hi all,  > E > Is there any difference in performance of the resulting application G > when compiled either with /float=ieee or /float=g_float, when running H > on a VMS7.2-1 system? Especially programs wriiten in F90 and C have my > interest.  >  >                   Jouk  >      There should be no noticeable difference using C  (unlessH       one also starts using non-default values for the /IEEE qualifier).  <                                                     Ed VogelH                                                     Compaq C Engineering   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 23:36:54 -0400 5 From: John Johnstone <jj_usenet@onay-amspay.mail.com> % Subject: 4D10T vs Elsa GLoria Synergy 4 Message-ID: <3999D416.5E256E98@onay-amspay.mail.com>  I I've got a choice of a VMS system with either a 4D10T PBXGK-AB or an Elsa K GLoria Synergy PBXGK-BB.  Both cards seem very similar other than the first K being made by Digital.  They seem to have the same amount of memory and use J the same graphics chip.  A CLUE CONFIG reports both as a 4D10T.  Are thereH any advantages of one over the other such as performance, capability, orC software differences?  I know that only the PBXGK-BB is a currently  available product.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 14:31:21 -0400 3 From: Jeff Goodwin <jgoodwin@spf.fairchildsemi.com> @ Subject: Alpha versions of Digital's CAI/CBI products available?5 Message-ID: <39998C79.8158E230@spf.fairchildsemi.com>    Hello,  F In my endeavor to completely move off VAX onto Alpha, I've come acrossH some old Digital CBI/CAI packages we're still using.  I've looked aroundA the COMPAQ website and been unable to find any reference to these 	 packages.   ) I'm looking for (in order of importance):   ' VMSCAI - VMS Computer Aided Instruction ' EVCBI  - EVE Computer Based Instruction $ DTRPCAI - Datatrieve for Programmers DTRUCAI - Datatrieve for Users  7 Unfortunately, DECmigrate doesn't seem to be an option:    $ vest EV$CBI.EXE F %VEST-F-BADEXE, Image is not translatable because it is not an OpenVMS) VAX V4.0 or later image -- it is an alias . %VEST-F-TRANSFATAL, Translation was impossible    D Are Alpha versions of these Digital products available?  If not, areE there any versions compiled late enough to make DECmigrate an option? * Source code would be welcome if necessary.  
 Thank you, Jeff Goodwin   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:49:08 GMT - From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> D Subject: Re: Alpha versions of Digital's CAI/CBI products available?( Message-ID: <3999909B.2F79DCDD@ohio.edu>  B FWIW, my memory is that the CAI software never made it onto Alpha.  #                                 RDP      Jeff Goodwin wrote:    > Hello, > H > In my endeavor to completely move off VAX onto Alpha, I've come acrossJ > some old Digital CBI/CAI packages we're still using.  I've looked aroundC > the COMPAQ website and been unable to find any reference to these  > packages.  > + > I'm looking for (in order of importance):  > ) > VMSCAI - VMS Computer Aided Instruction ) > EVCBI  - EVE Computer Based Instruction & > DTRPCAI - Datatrieve for Programmers  > DTRUCAI - Datatrieve for Users > 9 > Unfortunately, DECmigrate doesn't seem to be an option:  >  > $ vest EV$CBI.EXE H > %VEST-F-BADEXE, Image is not translatable because it is not an OpenVMS+ > VAX V4.0 or later image -- it is an alias 0 > %VEST-F-TRANSFATAL, Translation was impossible > F > Are Alpha versions of these Digital products available?  If not, areG > there any versions compiled late enough to make DECmigrate an option? , > Source code would be welcome if necessary. >  > Thank you, > Jeff Goodwin   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Aug 2000 19:09:24 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) " Subject: Re: Caching RMS Block I/O5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-vdWdgd0ibgiL@localhost>   F On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 09:50:25, "Phil Tregoning" <ptregoni@esoc.esa.de>  wrote:  ; > We have a VAX FORTRAN application that is using RMS Block = > I/O to process some data. I haven't seen the source, but as 0 > far as I can tell it does something like this: >  >   Loop> >     Read some data from one of a set of files in DISK1:[DIR]  >     Do some minimal processing< >     Write the data to one of a set of files in DISK2:[DIR] >   Endloop  > < > All the I/O is probably 1 or 2 block synchronous reads and: > writes. This is not performing as well as we need it to.; > We need to get about a 65% improvement (run time of about ' > 40 minutes down to about 15 minutes).  >   = > Obviously increasing the size of the I/Os, using Record I/O ; > with RMS buffering, and using asynchronous I/Os would all > > help to improve performance. Unfortunately changing the code > is not really possible.    PhilE         have you tried the 'normal' FORTRAN tuning methods. Check up  ? the BLOCKSIZE and BUFFERCOUNT Keywords for the OPEN statement.  > Additionally, you could determine whether you can specify the A INITIALSIZE of the NEW file when you OPEN it. This saves lots of  D $EXTENDS when more blocks need to allocated to the file. EXTENDSIZE D (IIRC) will allow you change the default by which a more blocks are D added to a file. These are all described quite well in the Language E and User guides. IIRC the tuning guide has some helpful explanations   too!.     Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 11:22:41 +1000 / From: "Phil Howell" <howellp@snowyhydro.com.au> " Subject: Re: Caching RMS Block I/O3 Message-ID: <e0mm5.90449$N4.2171069@ozemail.com.au>   6 Phil Tregoning <ptregoni@esoc.esa.de> wrote in message7 news:01c0069c$894d8e40$4b53b083@ptregoni.esoc.esa.de...  > Hello, >  > Short form of the question:  > 5 > Are there any VAX caching tools (either software or 4 > hardware) that are capable of doing read-ahead and3 > write-behind caching for an application that uses  > RMS block I/O? yes  i/o express from executive perfectdisk from raxcoI I'm sure that both companies would let you try out their software on your  problem 1 (you could even post the results here afterwards)  >  > Long form of the question: > ; > We have a VAX FORTRAN application that is using RMS Block = > I/O to process some data. I haven't seen the source, but as 0 > far as I can tell it does something like this: >  >   Loop> >     Read some data from one of a set of files in DISK1:[DIR]  >     Do some minimal processing< >     Write the data to one of a set of files in DISK2:[DIR] >   Endloop  > < > All the I/O is probably 1 or 2 block synchronous reads and: > writes. This is not performing as well as we need it to.; > We need to get about a 65% improvement (run time of about ' > 40 minutes down to about 15 minutes).  > = > Obviously increasing the size of the I/Os, using Record I/O ; > with RMS buffering, and using asynchronous I/Os would all > > help to improve performance. Unfortunately changing the code > is not really possible. L you should check file allocation/extension quantities first as they can have a significant effect on timingL you can do some tuning with rms defaults, if you increase multibuffer countsD you may have to increase your process enqlm depending on the locking involvedI you can also tune file & record processing options using an fdl, but this , depends on how the file is opened in fortran Phil > ; > I am looking for some other way of improving performance. 3 > One option being considered is to use an HSZ disk = > controller with a read/write cache. This seems to cache the 9 > data being written quite nicely, merging the many small < > writes into fewer, larger writes. This is likely to give a4 > roughly 40% improvement based on a not necessarily; > representative test I have done. It doesn't help with the 3 > reads as the controller doesn't attempt to do any > > read-ahead. It also doesn't reduce the interrupt processing, > which may become a factor. > ? > Does anybody know of any software or hardware caching options & > (or anything else) that could help ? >  > TIA  > 
 >   Phil T >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 15 Aug 2000 23:32:25 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)" Subject: Re: Caching RMS Block I/O+ Message-ID: <qzUI72SR+ybC@eisner.decus.org>   3 	To add to what Bill is saying below (getting in on 8 	this late), you may also want to use HSG80 controllers.  8 	Why HSG80 controllers?  Because they support sequential; 	read-ahead caching.  Couple that with write behind caching = 	and you can't hardly lose.  The HSG80s also support mirrored ; 	cache as do the HSZ70s for the truly paranoid.  Might want < 	to use Volume Shadowing if you truly value your data.  Why?G 	Though rare, devices have been known to not failover in dual-reduntant 8 	mode on controllers.  By using Volume Shadowing you canA 	be creative and split shadowsets across controllers in different = 	cabinets and different data centers in different counties or = 	different states (depending on budget and needs of course!).   ; 	Bit over the top above.. but the point is Volume Shadowing 9 	gives you a measure of reliability and by being a mirror 9 	copy, improves read performance.  How backed up are your > 	disks you are reading and writing to?  $ MONI DISK/ITEM=QUEUE  6 	HSG80 controller info pointing to read ahead caching:  / http://www.digital.com/info/SP7047/SP7047HM.HTM    "Read Ahead Cache Capability    O If sequential read requests are received from the host, Read Ahead Cache allows K the controller to anticipate subsequent read requests and prefetch the next : data blocks. This provides read performance optimization."    ; 	Oh, one other question that others may not have addressed. < 	Are the files you writing to fixed in size or pre-extended?  > 	If the files are growing, you will have considerable overhead> 	as the filesystem has to do extends on your files.  There are9 	some nice workarounds (DCL level, assuming there isn't a = 	deq=2 hardcoded somewhere in the code) if that is your case.   4 	How big is your budget?  Those HSG80s aren't cheap.   				Rob    	 R In article <8nbrmc$5r3$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes:L > If write-caching is indeed acceptable on the output side (though it shouldK > be battery-backed cache or cache protected by a reliable UPS, since ODS-2 M > depends upon the ordering of disk writes for the integrity of its meta-data M > structures and lost updates there could be catastrophic), you might be able I > to enable disk-level read-ahead caching (an option on both SCSI and IDE G > drives that VMS may have a means to address) to cover the input side.  > K > The eXtended File Cache features planned for VMS V7.3 might also help the H > input side (I don't know the degree to which they recognize sequentialJ > access patterns and react to them).  IIRC XFC is either in or close to aH > beta test (which might mean you could get your hands on it).  For thatH > matter, check out the existing VIOC facilities (something someone saidL > recently suggested that they may support a form of transparent large-block0 > access that might help, at least for reading). > G > You didn't specify whether the output-side files were being initially G > populated or updated in place.  If the former, experimenting with the I > various forms of default extension quantity control could prove useful.  >  > - bill > 8 > Phil Tregoning <ptregoni@esoc.esa.de> wrote in message9 > news:01c0069c$894d8e40$4b53b083@ptregoni.esoc.esa.de... 	 >> Hello,  >> >> Short form of the question: >>6 >> Are there any VAX caching tools (either software or5 >> hardware) that are capable of doing read-ahead and 4 >> write-behind caching for an application that uses >> RMS block I/O?  >> >> Long form of the question:  >>< >> We have a VAX FORTRAN application that is using RMS Block> >> I/O to process some data. I haven't seen the source, but as1 >> far as I can tell it does something like this:  >>	 >>   Loop ? >>     Read some data from one of a set of files in DISK1:[DIR] ! >>     Do some minimal processing = >>     Write the data to one of a set of files in DISK2:[DIR]  >>   Endloop >>= >> All the I/O is probably 1 or 2 block synchronous reads and ; >> writes. This is not performing as well as we need it to. < >> We need to get about a 65% improvement (run time of about( >> 40 minutes down to about 15 minutes). >>> >> Obviously increasing the size of the I/Os, using Record I/O< >> with RMS buffering, and using asynchronous I/Os would all? >> help to improve performance. Unfortunately changing the code  >> is not really possible. >>< >> I am looking for some other way of improving performance.4 >> One option being considered is to use an HSZ disk> >> controller with a read/write cache. This seems to cache the: >> data being written quite nicely, merging the many small= >> writes into fewer, larger writes. This is likely to give a 5 >> roughly 40% improvement based on a not necessarily < >> representative test I have done. It doesn't help with the4 >> reads as the controller doesn't attempt to do any? >> read-ahead. It also doesn't reduce the interrupt processing,  >> which may become a factor.  >>@ >> Does anybody know of any software or hardware caching options' >> (or anything else) that could help ?  >> >> TIA >> >>   Phil T  >> >> >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:50:41 -07002  From: Jon <jsmyth69@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: CD-R Writing.2 Message-ID: <u46ZOSyYiOdZF=BPeCOsY+RDmjJs@4ax.com>  C Are these decus utilities? (Sorry, I've not heard of either)  WhereoA could I get info on these? I was going to install a burner on our & alpha, but if this works, even better!   Thank you for the info!D      + Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote:    >Jon wrote:gH >> Could you give me a pointer to a page or two on creating your own VMSF >> cds?   I've got some home grown utilities we want to distribute and: >> want to know the best way to burn our own CDs.  Thanks! >H >1)  create the images >e >    LD or DFY$VMS_CD. >a/ >2)  ftp the image binary to a PC with a burnerB >eG >3)  burn the image (most PC burner software support burning of images)' >s >Arnel   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 14:26:32 -0500V7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>a Subject: Re: CD-R Writing.- Message-ID: <39999968.10CDF160@earthlink.net>   
 Jon wrote: > E > Are these decus utilities? (Sorry, I've not heard of either)  WhereSC > could I get info on these? I was going to install a burner on our ( > alpha, but if this works, even better!   Jon,  E See the links that Brian provided. Both provide information on LD and A DFY$VMSCD as well as links pointing further information on how toY acquire and use them.   ? Yes, folks are successfully using CD burners on Alpha (and even H MicroVAX) machines. This requires the CDRECORD program. Brian's page has5 links to CDRECORD executables for both VAX and Alpha.b   -- e David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/c   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:58:39 -0400t5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>g3 Subject: Re: Commitment to DII COE, missing pieces? , Message-ID: <8nc0eg$cilr$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  H How about a truly unofficial non-answer from someone not in authority...  J For those who haven't a clue what a DII/COE is - it is a standard from theE US government intended to allow reuse of code, and a well defined andcL controlled environment for application installation and execution.  The mainJ "COE" thing is a thing called the "kernel" - which is the environment thatJ "segments" (the COE name for an application) execute in.  It's all layeredB on top of X11/Motif/CDE for Posix-like systems.  To obtain DII/COEI certification, you must first pass a set of other "UNIX" standards - like:? POSIX, as well as the X11/Motif (VSW/VSM) tests - among others.h  J You can probably dig that out (in a much longer form) from their web site:  % http://diicoe.disa.mil/coe/index.htmlt  D IMHO - for the *immediate* future, people not involved in governmentH contracts that require COE certification - I would just ignore the wholeJ thing... other than to note that it requires a large committment by CompaqJ to the future of VMS.  For those who know what DII/COE is, and need it for? their DOD contracts - break out the champagne - VMS ain't dead.E  K For the *long-term* future, many of the things needed for COE certification D will end up integral to VMS and will improve the ability to make VMS3 source-level compatable with a typical UNIX system.1        > hg/jb wrote in message <3996D2ED.F8FE4A57@bellatlantic.net>...7 >yeah, some retired AF dude whose anagram is more crud?X >B >BoylesA wrote:e >>	 >> David,o >>A >> I passed your question along the the person heading up the VMSe$ >> DII/COE initiative within Compaq. >> >> Alan. >>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------- >>: >> Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. >> Up to 100 minutes free! >> http://www.keen.com   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Aug 2000 21:03:51 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)3 Subject: Re: Commitment to DII COE, missing pieces?p6 Message-ID: <8ncb7n$nmo$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  J In article <8n4goa$gel@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu  (David Mathog) writes:  : At:o : H :   http://www.openvms.digital.com/solutions/publicsector/coe/index.html : E : there is a Powerpoint presentation and a FAQ concerning the DII COEnJ : initiative.  After reading through the whole thing either I missed it orK : there was no no explicit mention of either soft links or shells (sh, csh,oL : tcsh, bash, etc.) being provided under DII COE.  Can somebody who actually  : knows clarify this situation?   F   The inclusion of at least one command shell would likely be part of F   any product meeting the DII COE requirements.  I have not looked at F   the specific requirements, beyond expecting that something like the -   bourne shell would very likely be required.e  E   I am aware of some folks around the 'net that have been working on eH   bash on OpenVMS, and some of the resulting code may well be available    for download.-  J In article <8n9p8k$klb@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu  (David Mathog) writes:@  L :The now defunct POSIX subsystem (the Open in OpenVMS) did have "sh" but didK :not come has csh.  To the extent that it was "POSIX compatible" that would K :seem to indicate that only "sh" is required by the standard.  But a lot of L :software from Unix requires csh as well - so conforming to just "Posix" mayK :or may not provide all the tools that are required to port real software.    G   We've had requests around resurrecting the POSIX kit for use on more iJ   recent OpenVMS Alpha releases, and I can pass specific (email) requests G   for this effort along to the relevent OpenVMS product manager, or the-G   requests can be made at LA CETS2000 or similar event -- I would tend  I   to expect that the relevent OpenVMS product managers will be attending e   the CETS2000 event.   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 16:00:01 -0400 % From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian>r- Subject: Re: DECnet Plus copying time problemm" Message-ID: <3999a0f6@news.si.com>  + >Try the following command on both systems:  >eE >    $ mcr ncl show csma-cd station * Collision Detect Check Failures= >=L >It should be 0 for each interface.  If it's a large number, and increasing,J >your ethernet network is not configured correctly.  In my experience it's> >because SQE has not been enabled on the ethernet transceiver.  = Our network gurus insist that it be OFF on every transceiver.r --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comBA Smiths Industries, Inc.                   tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevents< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 17:16:23 -0700 0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com>- Subject: Re: DECnet Plus copying time problem , Message-ID: <39997AE7.68CE1291@Mvb.Saic.Com>   Brian Tillman wrote: > - > >Try the following command on both systems:r > >oG > >    $ mcr ncl show csma-cd station * Collision Detect Check Failuresn > >tN > >It should be 0 for each interface.  If it's a large number, and increasing,L > >your ethernet network is not configured correctly.  In my experience it's@ > >because SQE has not been enabled on the ethernet transceiver. > ? > Our network gurus insist that it be OFF on every transceiver.n  = Then your network gurus aren't gurus.  SQE must be off if thetG transceiver is connected to a repeater, it should be on if connected toUG a host.  However, the advise is a red herring, mis-setting SQE does noteH impact network performance, only the AUI transceiver's ability to detect a bad cable.  E You can read the ethernet counters using LANCP.  Issuing the command:E5 $ MCR LANCP SHOW DEVICE ethernet-device-name/COUNTERS   E will show you if your host is experiencing any problems communicatingwC with the ethernet (it won't tell you about any problems beyond your F local ethernet segment - that's a different form of trouble-shooting).  H Since the values returned, and the format of the output of this command,E varies based on your ethernet configuration, post the results here ifgF you are not sure of their meaning.  We'll tell you if they indicate an ethernet problem.t  
 Mark Berrymans Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:38:25 GMT ( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com># Subject: Re: Downloading DECmigratec' Message-ID: <FzCJs2.E2J@spcuna.spc.edu>e  + Tim Jackson <tim.jackson@amsjv.com> writes:MD > Can anyone help me?  When I go to the instructions for downloading > DECmigrate, at URLI > http://www.support.compaq.com/amt/decmigrate/ftp-instructions.html, thed > files are located in the URLG > ftp://ftp.service.digital.com/private/decmigrate/vms/.  UnfortunatelypI > this is a 'private' area which gives a 'permission denied' message wheneB > access is attempted.  Is there somewhere else I can download the" > software and documentation from?  K   The first page listed has clickable links for the files, and I just triedgG the first one (VEST011A-A.EXE) and it worked. If you're not using a webo" browser, you should be able to do:     ftp ftp.service.digital.com     cd /private/decmigrate/vms/kit   get VEST011A-A.EXE  )   and so forth for the rest of the files.(  - 	Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com 5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USAI   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Aug 2000 21:16:33 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)# Subject: Re: Downloading DECmigratet6 Message-ID: <8ncbvh$nmo$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  T In article <39990ec2$1@pull.gecm.com>, "Tim Jackson" <tim.jackson@amsjv.com> writes:? :...When I go to the instructions for downloading DECmigrate...o  H   AFAIK, DECmigrate (VEST) support ended a while back -- the kit itself F   remained downloadable for a while, but has apparently been recently C   rendered unavailable.  (I do not know if that was intentional...)l  E   Do you have the source code?  (That would be the prefered approach,c   quite obviously.)n  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:24:31 -0700n' From: "Data" <data@pacpress.southam.ca>a Subject: File Headersp3 Message-ID: <p5mm5.25537$47.450940@news.bc.tac.net>   5 Is there a way to tell how close to full a disk is ??r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:19:00 -0400a, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: File Headers > Message-ID: <hshubs-4F89A2.22190015082000@news.mindspring.com>  ; In article <p5mm5.25537$47.450940@news.bc.tac.net>, "Data" @! <data@pacpress.southam.ca> wrote:c  6 >Is there a way to tell how close to full a disk is ??   $ SHOW DEVICE/FULL DISK:  + where DISK is the disk you want to look at.t   -- eK "People are the only mirror we have to see ourselves in.  The domain of allcL meaning.  All virtue, all evil, are contained only in people.  There is noneN in the universe at large.  Solitary confinement is a punishment in every humanH culture" -- Countess Cordelia Naismith Vorkosigan (Lois McMaster Bujold)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 21:26:28 -0500b7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>n Subject: Re: File HeadersS- Message-ID: <3999FBD4.53B340D8@earthlink.net>s   Data wrote:r > 7 > Is there a way to tell how close to full a disk is ??    SHOW DEVICE/FULL ddcud   -- t David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 19:48:05 -0700u' From: "Data" <data@pacpress.southam.ca>? Subject: Re: File Headers 3 Message-ID: <djnm5.25547$47.451572@news.bc.tac.net>:  A I actually meant how close to using up all the file headers on ana. initialized disk ( # of files not disk space )    B "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message' news:3999FBD4.53B340D8@earthlink.net...r
 > Data wrote:  > >a9 > > Is there a way to tell how close to full a disk is ??  >, > SHOW DEVICE/FULL ddcuo >r > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systemsw > http://www.djesys.com/ >e< > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:57:21 -0400e, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: File Headersa> Message-ID: <hshubs-F67A55.22572115082000@news.mindspring.com>  ; In article <djnm5.25547$47.451572@news.bc.tac.net>, "Data" n! <data@pacpress.southam.ca> wrote:o  B >I actually meant how close to using up all the file headers on an/ >initialized disk ( # of files not disk space )c   Same answer.   -- iK "People are the only mirror we have to see ourselves in.  The domain of alltL meaning.  All virtue, all evil, are contained only in people.  There is noneN in the universe at large.  Solitary confinement is a punishment in every humanH culture" -- Countess Cordelia Naismith Vorkosigan (Lois McMaster Bujold)   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 23:09:58 GMTr2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> Subject: Gnome replacing CDE? 3 Message-ID: <a5km5.25$M62.7990@typhoon.aracnet.com>t  E In recent days the word has come out that Compaq, IBM, HP and Sun are I working together to replace CDE with Gnome.  Does anyone have any news ongG what this means for OpenVMS?  Will CDE on OpenVMS be replaced by Gnome?m  8 For all that goes, is this a good thing, or a bad thing?   			Zane   l   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 23:58:40 GMTs! From: Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net> 7 Subject: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CDh' Message-ID: <3999D92F.117156F2@vrx.net>q  D Now that I'm the proud owner of a legal set of source listings (withG license, thank you), I was wondering if someone would be kind enough to8 lend me or sell me a CD set?  G I would be willing to pay a portion of the yearly update fee, since I'miC assuming someone here likely subscribes for the $790/yr cost to getrF yearly updates. I don't need yearly updates. I only need one set. So IG would say, at most, I'd pay half the yearly fee ($395) but it should beX less for only one set.  H If some kind hearted soul would lend me a CD set or trade me for a ficheD set (as those are the only extras I have), I'd really appreciate it.  A And please, with license issues, since I have a licensed set, andRH whoever would trade or lend me would have a licensed set, it should be a> non-issue, as we both have licenses, and that wouldn't change.  F I can't really afford $395 (which would be worth a half-years updates)G only one set, what's that 1/12th of a year? well, ok, maybe I could paym7 half, which would be 1/4 year or 1/3 year or something.n  C Would some kind soul on this list take pity on a poor, nearly brokeIH student who just wants to learn, and nothing else? I'd really appreciateF it. If someone would lend me a CD kit set, I'd gladly give you a fiche set to keep.  H And please no negative posts or flames, I'm only interested in responses if you're willing to help.   Thanks   B.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 15:41:32 -0500n1 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>w, Subject: Re: Ken Olson's "snake oil" comment8 Message-ID: <8nc9nl$bcg$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  I And speaking of McNamara.  I remember the time he made a public statementrL admitting that Viet Nam was a mistake.  I believe he even shed a tear during his confession, poor soul.  G Being a vet of that war and knowing that no young men from the McNamaraoK family spent time over there, made me view people in loftly positions a bit  differently.  Hard not to.  K A Ford Falcon is one thing.  >50,000 KIAs is quite another.  Not to mention: the walking wounded and others.@  E I'll never forget the day I left and saw my Mom's face in the window.O Never.   Dave...   7 "David A Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messagee' news:3996DC1D.A0414391@tsoft-inc.com...w > hg/jb wrote:K > > My own view of this goes back to the late 70s. 76-79 specifically, when  > > soJ > > many of the layed off honeywell folks and retiring AirFarce folks wereJ > > brought in.  There was a difference in culture - a serious change fromJ > > responding to customer needs with real solutions to strategic planningL > > driven approaches.  Kind of like McNamara's dictating break throughs for= > > common aircraft (F-111).  I lived thru all that and left.P >i) > This is a real interesting observation.  >bK > Robert McNamara really screwed up many things.  First at Ford he overroad- the-I > 'car' people who really knew how to build cars, giving us the 1960 Fordd Falcon,pH > a truly bland little box.  It took many years to 'fix' this trend, and onlyL > after the Japanese had a firm grip on a significant part of the US market. ToJ > some extent the automobile manufacturers avoided DECs fate.  True to the 'peterL > principal', when someone truly screws up, he gets promoted to allow biggerI > screw-ups.  I'm still a bit surprised the dept of defense ever surviveds him.5 > Says a bit about the staying power of bureacracies.s >hF > I had always knew that there was a shift in about 1980, give or take severalXH > years, where DEC stopped listening to the customers, and began in many ways to H > tell the customer what was best for them.  As with many things of this nature, L > it took years for the effects to begin to affect sales and profits, and by thatH > time the damage was already done, and stopping the trend away from DEC productsJ > wasn't an easy task.  As things became worse, bad enough that they could noK > longer be ignored, the solution was Bob Palmer.  Before BP, DEC was going$I > downhill, but at least there was an effort to apply some brakes.  BP onm then> > other hand forgot the brakes and stomped on the accelerator. >sE > Anybody want to do a study of how to kill off a promissing company?c >, > Dave >  > --6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04506 > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596@ > DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com8 > T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:28:54 GMTt% From: hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net> , Subject: Re: Ken Olson's "snake oil" comment0 Message-ID: <3999C609.65649587@bellatlantic.net>   Ditto. I was class of 67 and 68. G I was there when the first F111 (credit to BM- bob mcnamara) was "shot"d down.  I was on SAR duty.*   Dave Gudewicz wrote: > K > And speaking of McNamara.  I remember the time he made a public statementjN > admitting that Viet Nam was a mistake.  I believe he even shed a tear during > his confession, poor soul. > I > Being a vet of that war and knowing that no young men from the McNamaraaM > family spent time over there, made me view people in loftly positions a bit  > differently.  Hard not to. > M > A Ford Falcon is one thing.  >50,000 KIAs is quite another.  Not to mentione! > the walking wounded and others.a > G > I'll never forget the day I left and saw my Mom's face in the window.l > Never. > 	 > Dave...s > 9 > "David A Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messagew) > news:3996DC1D.A0414391@tsoft-inc.com...r > > hg/jb wrote:M > > > My own view of this goes back to the late 70s. 76-79 specifically, whenA > > > soL > > > many of the layed off honeywell folks and retiring AirFarce folks wereL > > > brought in.  There was a difference in culture - a serious change fromL > > > responding to customer needs with real solutions to strategic planningN > > > driven approaches.  Kind of like McNamara's dictating break throughs for? > > > common aircraft (F-111).  I lived thru all that and left.@ > >n+ > > This is a real interesting observation.g > >pM > > Robert McNamara really screwed up many things.  First at Ford he overroadt > the K > > 'car' people who really knew how to build cars, giving us the 1960 Ford 	 > Falcon,aJ > > a truly bland little box.  It took many years to 'fix' this trend, and > onlyN > > after the Japanese had a firm grip on a significant part of the US market. > ToL > > some extent the automobile manufacturers avoided DECs fate.  True to the > 'peterN > > principal', when someone truly screws up, he gets promoted to allow biggerK > > screw-ups.  I'm still a bit surprised the dept of defense ever survivede > him.7 > > Says a bit about the staying power of bureacracies.c > >rH > > I had always knew that there was a shift in about 1980, give or take	 > severaleJ > > years, where DEC stopped listening to the customers, and began in many	 > ways tonJ > > tell the customer what was best for them.  As with many things of this	 > nature,nN > > it took years for the effects to begin to affect sales and profits, and by > thatJ > > time the damage was already done, and stopping the trend away from DEC
 > productsL > > wasn't an easy task.  As things became worse, bad enough that they could > noM > > longer be ignored, the solution was Bob Palmer.  Before BP, DEC was goinglK > > downhill, but at least there was an effort to apply some brakes.  BP oni > the @ > > other hand forgot the brakes and stomped on the accelerator. > >rG > > Anybody want to do a study of how to kill off a promissing company?  > >i > > Dave > >V > > --8 > > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04508 > > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596B > > DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com: > > T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 03:07:55 GMT-4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>, Subject: Re: Ken Olson's "snake oil" comment< Message-ID: <fAnm5.28864$NH2.245199@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  G Yup, me too, 509th RRG USASA 1970-72. Guess we all got fed snake oil bym McNamara and LBJ, eh?u  K SAR, as in Jolly Green and Songbird TACREPS, etc? Very perilous stuff, glad> you made it back!i       > Ditto. > I was class of 67 and 68.nI > I was there when the first F111 (credit to BM- bob mcnamara) was "shot"b > down.  I was on SAR duty.t >a > Dave Gudewicz wrote: > >,C > > And speaking of McNamara.  I remember the time he made a publicc	 statementcI > > admitting that Viet Nam was a mistake.  I believe he even shed a tearu during > > his confession, poor soul. > >rK > > Being a vet of that war and knowing that no young men from the McNamaramK > > family spent time over there, made me view people in loftly positions as bite > > differently.  Hard not to. ]    ------------------------------   Date: 15 Aug 2000 19:55:20 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)5 Subject: Re: Need help with PC to VMS File Transfers.,6 Message-ID: <8nc778$n7u$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  j In article <399425A6.D55E0A27@gte.net>, Jeff - Coachella Valley Water <cyberunlimited.org@gte.net> writes:: :I need a way to move it to a floppy in files-11 format or3 :read it from the floppy on the Alpha in PC Format.s  E   Also asked over in Ask The Wizard -- I'll ask that the posting over    there be canceled.  C   One option: Tools that permit access to FAT-formatted PC floppies     are listed in the OpenVMS FAQ.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 00:29:51 GMTe From: hemanir@hotmail.coml Subject: openhack and VMS ) Message-ID: <8ncn9b$3vo$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,  9 Recently, pcweek, rigged up a web site 'openhack.com' andt challenged/invited< hackers to hack the site. It was rigged up using unix boxes.& Solaris security bugs were discovered.2 All this is not relevant to what I want to convey. Read more atB http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2600258,00.html    E Since VMS is purported to be a much more secure system, and there area lessD known exploits on VMS boxes, why should not compaq do something like this ?B Iam sure VMS will come out on top and it will be a great marketing posture/strategyC for compaq. Something like 'hackvax.com' should be a catchy phrase.iG Beat the right drums about VMS's invulnerability and chanting the rightk phrasess1 should give a boost to the VMS web server market.-  4 Anybody at compaq listening and open to such ideas ?   TIA, -RSN5 PS : If somebody does implement this, I want royalty.r        & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 20:22:49 -0400u- From: Niranjan Rajaghatta <hemanir@yahoo.com> # Subject: openhack challenge and VMSm) Message-ID: <3999DED8.5734649A@yahoo.com>   9 Recently, pcweek, rigged up a web site 'openhack.com' andt challenged/invited< hackers to hack the site. It was rigged up using unix boxes.& Solaris security bugs were discovered.2 All this is not relevant to what I want to convey. Read more atB http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2600258,00.html    E Since VMS is purported to be a much more secure system, and there arei lessD known exploits on VMS boxes, why should not compaq do something like this ?B Iam sure VMS will come out on top and it will be a great marketing posture/strategyC for compaq. Something like 'hackvax.com' should be a catchy phrase.hG Beat the right drums about VMS's invulnerability and chanting the rightI phrases-1 should give a boost to the VMS web server market.:  4 Anybody at compaq listening and open to such ideas ?   TIA, -RSN5 PS : If somebody does implement this, I want royalty.a   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 00:49:24 +0000 (   )"3 From: Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com>e' Subject: Re: openhack challenge and VMS.J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10008160047010.26061-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com>  / On Tue, 15 Aug 2000, Niranjan Rajaghatta wrote:p  ; > Recently, pcweek, rigged up a web site 'openhack.com' and  > challenged/invited> > hackers to hack the site. It was rigged up using unix boxes. [snip]G > Since VMS is purported to be a much more secure system, and there aren > lessF > known exploits on VMS boxes, why should not compaq do something like > this ?   [snip]7 > PS : If somebody does implement this, I want royalty.e  J Actually, you've allready been beaten to it by at least one person.  AFAIK8 there used to be an open challenge at at least one site.  ? The rules were something like, try and read a file with certainsI information in it, and email the file back to the administrator to proove0  that you'd gotten past security.  * Also, AFAIK, nobody ever managed to do it.   Regards,   Chrisb  O ===============================================================================e@ "My two cents"			(http://rootworks.com/twocentsworth.cgi?128562)= Christopher Smith(chriss@pubserv.com)			Prgramer^W ProgrammerD Prime Synergy of Champaign, IL. % ------------------------------------- I "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes andcH weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes; and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949 nO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------c   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 17:42:46 -07002! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comh' Subject: Re: openhack challenge and VMSjC Message-ID: <OF1DD507FD.6ACD64A7-ON8825693D.0003CC26@HEALTHNET.COM>s  I Sorry, you're far from the first person to talk about this. In fact, it's & been done twice before that I know of.    Close, Niranjan, but no royalty!   Shaned          A Niranjan Rajaghatta <hemanir@yahoo.com> on 08/15/2000 05:22:49 PMp  % Please respond to hemanir@HOTMAIL.COM-   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comu cc:   $ Subject:  openhack challenge and VMS    9 Recently, pcweek, rigged up a web site 'openhack.com' and- challenged/invited< hackers to hack the site. It was rigged up using unix boxes.& Solaris security bugs were discovered.2 All this is not relevant to what I want to convey. Read more atB http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2600258,00.html    E Since VMS is purported to be a much more secure system, and there arec lessD known exploits on VMS boxes, why should not compaq do something like this ?B Iam sure VMS will come out on top and it will be a great marketing posture/strategyC for compaq. Something like 'hackvax.com' should be a catchy phrase. G Beat the right drums about VMS's invulnerability and chanting the right  phrasesa1 should give a boost to the VMS web server market.l  4 Anybody at compaq listening and open to such ideas ?   TIA, -RSN5 PS : If somebody does implement this, I want royalty.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 21:18:09 -0400l- From: Niranjan Rajaghatta <hemanir@yahoo.com>i' Subject: Re: openhack challenge and VMS ) Message-ID: <3999EBD0.F8E31088@yahoo.com>   ( Twice before on a VMS based web server ?? Are there any details about this ? Where and when was it done ?n   -RSN  " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote:  K > Sorry, you're far from the first person to talk about this. In fact, it'sn( > been done twice before that I know of. >t" > Close, Niranjan, but no royalty! >- > Shanea > C > Niranjan Rajaghatta <hemanir@yahoo.com> on 08/15/2000 05:22:49 PM. >c' > Please respond to hemanir@HOTMAIL.COM  >s > To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como > cc:n >c& > Subject:  openhack challenge and VMS >t; > Recently, pcweek, rigged up a web site 'openhack.com' andc > challenged/invited> > hackers to hack the site. It was rigged up using unix boxes.( > Solaris security bugs were discovered.4 > All this is not relevant to what I want to convey. > Read more atD > http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2600258,00.html >sG > Since VMS is purported to be a much more secure system, and there aret > lessF > known exploits on VMS boxes, why should not compaq do something like > this ?D > Iam sure VMS will come out on top and it will be a great marketing > posture/strategyE > for compaq. Something like 'hackvax.com' should be a catchy phrase.eI > Beat the right drums about VMS's invulnerability and chanting the rightm	 > phrasesi3 > should give a boost to the VMS web server market.u >t6 > Anybody at compaq listening and open to such ideas ? >  > TIA, > -RSN7 > PS : If somebody does implement this, I want royalty.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:41:38 -0700o! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.coms' Subject: Re: openhack challenge and VMS C Message-ID: <OF06E6D382.A11983F1-ON8825693D.00092508@HEALTHNET.COM>e  H Look back through the archives of this newsgroup. It was discussed here,I and the guy who set one of them up took part in the conversation. I don't.H think either was actually running a webserver, but the principle is very much the same.   Shanea          A Niranjan Rajaghatta <hemanir@yahoo.com> on 08/15/2000 06:18:09 PMa  % Please respond to hemanir@HOTMAIL.COMe   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt cc:a  ( Subject:  Re: openhack challenge and VMS    ( Twice before on a VMS based web server ?? Are there any details about this ? Where and when was it done ?y   -RSN  " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote:  K > Sorry, you're far from the first person to talk about this. In fact, it'sl( > been done twice before that I know of. >-" > Close, Niranjan, but no royalty! >3 > Shane  >mC > Niranjan Rajaghatta <hemanir@yahoo.com> on 08/15/2000 05:22:49 PMn >"' > Please respond to hemanir@HOTMAIL.COMc >@ > To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > cc:p >i& > Subject:  openhack challenge and VMS >e; > Recently, pcweek, rigged up a web site 'openhack.com' and  > challenged/invited> > hackers to hack the site. It was rigged up using unix boxes.( > Solaris security bugs were discovered.4 > All this is not relevant to what I want to convey. > Read more atD > http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2600258,00.html >tG > Since VMS is purported to be a much more secure system, and there aree > lessF > known exploits on VMS boxes, why should not compaq do something like > this ?D > Iam sure VMS will come out on top and it will be a great marketing > posture/strategyE > for compaq. Something like 'hackvax.com' should be a catchy phrase. I > Beat the right drums about VMS's invulnerability and chanting the righth	 > phrases 3 > should give a boost to the VMS web server market.  >u6 > Anybody at compaq listening and open to such ideas ? >g > TIA, > -RSN7 > PS : If somebody does implement this, I want royalty.    ------------------------------    Date: 16 Aug 2000 00:16:39 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)' Subject: Re: openhack challenge and VMS + Message-ID: <ZRYkdxAzWeJV@eisner.decus.org>b  Y In article <3999DED8.5734649A@yahoo.com>, Niranjan Rajaghatta <hemanir@yahoo.com> writes:    > G > Since VMS is purported to be a much more secure system, and there are  > lessF > known exploits on VMS boxes, why should not compaq do something like > this ? >   ) 	Trying to force somebody's hand there?!?   D > Iam sure VMS will come out on top and it will be a great marketing > posture/strategyE > for compaq. Something like 'hackvax.com' should be a catchy phrase.dI > Beat the right drums about VMS's invulnerability and chanting the rights	 > phrasesi3 > should give a boost to the VMS web server market.u > 6 > Anybody at compaq listening and open to such ideas ? >   ' 	I'm sure they do listen to good ideas.,  7 > PS : If somebody does implement this, I want royalty.   # 	Why?  For thinking of the obvious?t   			Rob   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Aug 2000 22:51:30 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)& Subject: Re: OpenVMS  7.3 Release Date6 Message-ID: <8nchhi$ol4$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>   In article <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A8AE831@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>, "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com> writes: B :	Anyone know when 7.3 will be released and if it will be the same :date for VAX & Alpha ?.  D   I am aware of the current release schedule, and yes, respectively.  H   (Ok, so I'm feeling rather pedantic today.  What was the question? :-)  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 01:23:53 GMTl- From: "Dave Pampreen" <davepampreen@home.com>-& Subject: Re: OpenVMS  7.3 Release Date8 Message-ID: <J2mm5.504$QW4.13416@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com>   So what's the date?s    ? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message>0 news:8nchhi$ol4$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com... >h > In articleH <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A8AE831@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>, "Boyle,+ Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com> writes: D > : Anyone know when 7.3 will be released and if it will be the same > :date for VAX & Alpha ?k > F >   I am aware of the current release schedule, and yes, respectively. >eJ >   (Ok, so I'm feeling rather pedantic today.  What was the question? :-) >y, >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion ---------------------------l1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering  hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 17:50:49 GMTr/ From: "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu>i) Subject: Re: OpenVMS Patches Mailing Listv) Message-ID: <39993CA9.5D088DFA@uiowa.edu>   1 > Anyone else have any problems or is it just me?   @ 	I saw a few others still have the same problem as I was having,2 so I assume from that, that it was not just me. :)  A 	However, speaking of the devil, I just today got a patch listing G (ALPMANA02_071) for the first time in a LONG time (I sware it is longer E than last Feb 2000 like Peter reported...)  But, time flies when yourn having fun... :)  > 	Now, is this just a hiccup or is the patch list back on-line? We'll have to watch and see.   rick -- hH Richard L. Dyson                                    rick-dyson@uiowa.eduH  _   _      _____                http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/H | | | |    |_   _|   Systems Analyst                     O: 319/335-1879H | | | | of   | |     The University of Iowa            FAX: 319/335-17536 | \_/ |     _| |_    Department of Physics & Astronomy-  \___/     |_____|   Iowa City, IA 52242-1479    ------------------------------   Date: 15 Aug 2000 20:41:35 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: OpenVMSware6 Message-ID: <8nc9tv$nkb$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  d In article <p4wl5.99934$A%3.1321059@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>, "Joseph Gill" <gilljb@home.com> writes:I :Does anyone know if Compaq has an OpenVMSware web site where you can buywC :cool OpenVMS shirts, hats, mugs, etc simular to Sun's Sunware siteD :(http://www.sun.com/sunware/)?m  F   The OpenVMS-specific materials are generally available (usually for     free) at trade shows and such.  F   I know of no website where this OpenVMS merchandise can be ordered, +   though that is an interesting suggestion.m  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 23:12:14 GMTl2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> Subject: Re: OpenVMSware3 Message-ID: <i7km5.26$M62.7990@typhoon.aracnet.com>d  3 Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote:uH >   The OpenVMS-specific materials are generally available (usually for " >   free) at trade shows and such.  H >   I know of no website where this OpenVMS merchandise can be ordered, - >   though that is an interesting suggestion.M  I Having a website where it can be purchased would be very cool.  There are N those of us who would love to be able to wear an OpenVMS shirt into work, but N have no chance of getting to a trade show or such where it would be available.   			Zane"   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Aug 2000 18:47:24 GMT# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu7/ Subject: Re: OT: Re: Gases, Noble and Otherwisea+ Message-ID: <8nc37s$dp5$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>S  + Art Rice <arice.NOSPAM@ue.itug.org> writes:>, >"Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> wrote: >s >>"Jonathan Stone" wrote:h  D >>> Cloroflurocarbons, once relased into the atmosphere, can migrateJ >>> through the atmosphere into the stratosphere, where ionizing radiationI >>> can strip off the chlorine atom, prodcing free chlorine radicals (Cl,nF >>> _not_ Cl2). The free chlorine radicals are very reactive, and theyG >>> will eventually recombine with other chemicals. The problem is thatwA >>> when free chlorine radicals react wtih ozone (O3), they breakrA >>> down the O3 into O2 and re-release the free chlorine radical.r  F >>Which begs the question, if the end result is O2 then why doesnt theE >>same ionizing radiation convert the O2 to O3?  Isn't that where the ( >>ozone comes from in the first place?    ) http://www.faqs.org/faqs/ozone-depletion/n  F CFCs decay via uv and the free Cl forms other molecules that decomposeE at a low rate which is none-the-less enough to do damage to the ozonea layer.  E Because the stratosphere is dry those other molecules do not wash outlH and so are still around when nighttime comes to the poles, which is whenB the most dramatic and best understood damage to the ozone is done.  B O3 is formed by UV but the rate of formation is much below that of CFC induced destruction.  E >It was my understanding that the major contributor in the production  >of ozone is Lightning.M  K Tropospheric (the layer next to the earth) ozone under no-human conditions.    Robert Morphis   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 12:13:07 +1000 / From: "Phil Howell" <howellp@snowyhydro.com.au>e Subject: Re: PC-NFS ? 3 Message-ID: <rLmm5.90458$N4.2172868@ozemail.com.au>a  4 Cliff Squidlow <csquid@hotmail.com> wrote in message& news:40em5.4$ud6.6026@nnrp1.sbc.net...K > I've been away from VMS for a number of years now, but the death of Alphaw NTI > and the Hobbyist License has me playing with setting up the box as a PCr fileI > server.  Back then we used Pathworks with the Win3.1 clients, but neverM@ > could get Decnet NT running, so we went a different direction. >SI > What is PC-NFS?  I'm guessing it would do what I'm thinking but haven'toF > heard of it before the 7.2 Install I just did recently.  What client > software on the PC's?S@ pc-nfs was the name of sun's original client pc software for dos@ any tcp/ip client has to talk to the pc-nfs daemon on the serverL depending on who you talk to nfs either stands for network file system or no f*****g security7 samba is an alternative means of exporting file systemse here is the nfs overview Phil  L NFS is a client/server environment that allows computers to share disk spaceJ and users to work with their files from multiple computers without copyingG them to the local system. Computers that make files available to remotepH users are NFS servers. Computers with local users accessing and creatingE remote files are NFS clients. A computer can be an NFS server, an NFSh& client, or both a server and a client.  J Attaching a remote directory to the local file system is called mounting aJ directory. A directory cannot be mounted unless it is first exported by anI NFS server. The NFS client identifies each file system by the name of itshG mount point on the server. The mount point is the name of the device ortJ directory at the top of the file system hierarchy. An NFS device is always named DNFSn.  H All files below the mount point are available to client users as if theyG resided on the local system. The NFS client requests file operations bynF contacting a remote NFS server. The server then performs the requestedL operation. The NFS client automatically converts all mounted directories andG file structures, contents, and names to the format required by OpenVMS.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 08:56:13 +0930 / From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au>07 Subject: Re: Problem setting up YAHMAIL with OSU server / Message-ID: <3999D195.7EDD5D9B@wasd.vsm.com.au>u   Mark Daniel wrote:  U > associated password.  Try just using /htbin/~ and seeing what you get.  You must be   L Now I'm doing it :^)            This  ^^^^^^^^^  should be  /htbin/yahmail/~   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 08:53:27 +0930o/ From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au>o7 Subject: Re: Problem setting up YAHMAIL with OSU server'/ Message-ID: <3999D0EE.263960E8@wasd.vsm.com.au>s   Tom Wade VMS Systems wrote:   8 >       status = PMDFwriteHeader (&PmdfNqCtx, &PmdfHdr);0 > .............................................^A > %CC-E-UNDECLARED, In this statement, "PmdfHdr" is not declared.v5 > at line number 699 in file SW$:[YAHMAIL]SENDMSG.C;1b > ...r  P Replace the 'PmdfHdr' with 'PmdfHdrPtr'.  I at a loss to explain this source bugT considering my usual e-mailer is yahMAIL using PMDF compiled using these sources and, build procedure!  I'll look into it further.  J > I configure the OSU protect rules, and set up a public and private entry > in the YAHMAIL$CONFIG file.- >  > [private]u > *\*\*t >E
 > [public]) > bulletin\US$:[BULLETIN]MAIL.MAI\ARCHIVE3 >oN > 1.  Public access:  link to http://picard.eurokom.ie/htbin/yahmail/~bulletinC >                     produces a "configuration restriction" error.-  P Don't use  /htbin/yahmail/~  for archive access, the '~' indicates to the script2 private access.  Just use  /htbin/yahmail/bulletin   >nH > 2.  Private access:  link to http://picard.eurokom.ie/htbin/~fred alsoK >                      produces a "configuration restriction" error *after*rJ >                      a successful username/password dialog box from OSU. > ; >     YAHMAIL$CHECK_ACCESS = 1:  The following is returned:  >n= > <P>Apologies for any inconvenience. Please try again later.2 > <!-- > [private] FRED\?	 > |*\*\*|e
 > allow: FREDO > -->o  R This is puzzling (it's YAHMAIL$CHECK BTW, and assuming the /htbin/~fred is a typo,T it should be /htbin/yahmail/~fred).  The check is indicating that FRED is allowed toM access it.  It is possible for this check to indicate 'allow'ed and still notoT provide access if the /~fred does not correspond with the username of "fred" and theS associated password.  Try just using /htbin/~ and seeing what you get.  You must be N configurated as a "postmaster" to supply a /~username that is different to the  authenticated username supplied.   Regards, Mark Daniel (author).   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 09:55:13 +0930p/ From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au>hB Subject: Programmatic access to byte count rx/tx on TCP/IP socket./ Message-ID: <3999DF69.A11299AA@wasd.vsm.com.au>o  G Is it possible to access via $QIO the sent and received counts of a BG:h device socket.  G Furthermore (with due deference to Hoff's current pendantry :^) if this-> is possible then is it practical?  And again, if so provide anG explanation and possibly a code example if it's not straightforward (orlE include where the interface documentation may be found :^)   If it isoH possible, is it known what versions of the BG: drive (UCX, DTCPIP, etc.)? it is supported for (and if so please include this info. also)?t  ? Hmmm, I have a feeling I've left something out.  Oh well.  TIA.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 14:14:38 -0400n- From: Dave O'Brien <obrien@mail.amergent.com>j Subject: Re: RMS Index ProblemA Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000815141206.00e35810@mail.amergent.com>I  J I agree with all your points.  The key in question would be the sixth key J for the file.  Here is the section of the FDL that they tweaked to try to  get the null value to work:    KEY 5 $          CHANGES                 yes"          DATA_AREA               3#          DATA_FILL               90o$          DATA_KEY_COMPRESSION    yes$          DUPLICATES              yes"          INDEX_AREA              3$          INDEX_COMPRESSION       yes#          INDEX_FILL              90n"          LEVEL1_INDEX_AREA       3/          NAME                    "HI-REST-FUND"n$          NULL_KEY                yes$          NULL_VALUE              'U'"          SEG0_LENGTH             2$          SEG0_POSITION           123'          TYPE                    stringr    I Did we miss something?  Performance didn't seem to increase with this as h" opposed to it being a regular key.   Dave    . At 11:03 AM 8/15/00 -0600, Dan O'Reilly wrote:  ? >Well, the most important thing you can do for speed are these:  >sH >1. Limit the number of indices in the file.  I seem to recall from manyH >moons ago, that the magic number was about 5 or so before you would see5 >a near-exponential performance degradation from RMS.3 >OO >2. Make each key as unique as possible.  Is there some other unique field thatgH >you can combine with this key to make each unique (say, a time stamp or >something else)?n > M >30 seconds to do 7 inserts is abysmal performance.  And yes, it's because ofy >the duplicate keys. >a >  >------iJ >+-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+J >| Dan O'Reilly                  |                                       |J >| Principal Engineer            |  "Those are my principles. If you     |J >| Process Software              |   don't like them I have others."     |J >| http://www.process.com        |                    -- Groucho Marx    |J >+-------------------------------+---------------------------------------+ >  >w      @ ----------------------------------------------------------------4 Dave O'Brien                     Phone: 978-531-18004 Director, Information Technology Fax:   978-531-4451@ Amergent                         Email: obrien@mail.amergent.com9 9 Centennial Drive               http://www.amergent.com/e Peabody, MA  01960@ ----------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Aug 2000 18:46:25 GMT8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) Subject: Re: RMS Index Problem6 Message-ID: <8nc361$mi3$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  q In article <4.3.2.7.2.20000815141206.00e35810@mail.amergent.com>, Dave O'Brien <obrien@mail.amergent.com> writes:s ..K >          ...  Here is the section of the FDL that they tweaked to try to   >get the null value to work: >  >KEY 5 ..% >         NULL_KEY                yesa% >         NULL_VALUE              'U' # >         SEG0_LENGTH             2v  5 I would think that for a two byte key you would need d a two byte null_value.  e.g.  &           NULL_VALUE              ' U' or&           NULL_VALUE              'U '  = depending on whether the application right of left justifies.      -- -K     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAiF          (hammond@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 15:30:57 -0400 - From: Dave O'Brien <obrien@mail.amergent.com>m Subject: Re: RMS Index ProblemA Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000815153033.00e37a80@mail.amergent.com>   3 That makes a lot of sense.  We'll give that a shot.    Dave  1 At 06:46 PM 8/15/00 +0000, Charlie Hammond wrote:t  H >In article <4.3.2.7.2.20000815141206.00e35810@mail.amergent.com>, Dave + >O'Brien <obrien@mail.amergent.com> writes:d >..aL > >          ...  Here is the section of the FDL that they tweaked to try to > >get the null value to work: > >u > >KEY 5 >.. ' > >         NULL_KEY                yess' > >         NULL_VALUE              'U'd% > >         SEG0_LENGTH             2l >n5 >I would think that for a two byte key you would needo >a two byte null_value.  e.g.- >-( >           NULL_VALUE              ' U' >orG( >           NULL_VALUE              'U ' > > >depending on whether the application right of left justifies. >h >l >--aM >     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USA1H >          (hammond@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)L >       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.      @ ----------------------------------------------------------------4 Dave O'Brien                     Phone: 978-531-18004 Director, Information Technology Fax:   978-531-4451@ Amergent                         Email: obrien@mail.amergent.com9 9 Centennial Drive               http://www.amergent.com/f Peabody, MA  01960@ ----------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 20:42:29 GMTO From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl> Subject: Re: RMS Index Problem' Message-ID: <3999AB35.2E0CCEA5@home.nl>s   Dave O'Brien wrote:o > 5 > That makes a lot of sense.  We'll give that a shot.$ >  > Dave > 3 > At 06:46 PM 8/15/00 +0000, Charlie Hammond wrote:D > I > >In article <4.3.2.7.2.20000815141206.00e35810@mail.amergent.com>, Daven- > >O'Brien <obrien@mail.amergent.com> writes:7 > >.. N > > >          ...  Here is the section of the FDL that they tweaked to try to  > > >get the null value to work: > > >n
 > > >KEY 5 > >...) > > >         NULL_KEY                yesi) > > >         NULL_VALUE              'U' ' > > >         SEG0_LENGTH             2l > >n7 > >I would think that for a two byte key you would needf > >a two byte null_value.  e.g.a > >l* > >           NULL_VALUE              ' U' > >or-* > >           NULL_VALUE              'U ' > >R@ > >depending on whether the application right of left justifies.  F Sorry, not so. The key should contain "UU" to be a null-value. The keyF should be made up completely out of the null-value, so in case the keyB is 5 characters long it should contain "UUUUU" to be a null-value.  G And for 16 million records this is a very poor key. Try to make it more G unique by adding a more unique part of the record (a segmented key). ItaF will increase the size of the file, but inserting records will be muchF faster because you will avoid duplicate keys. You will need to do someE reprogramming I'm afraid .... Also never use index compression, it ishE bad for performance. Data compression is ok, index compression is note4 (It is no longer default in Edit/fdl in VMS 7.2-1).   H You did not mention the bucket size. If the file is accessed sequentialyD (more or less), a large bucket size improves speed very much. Double bucket size = double speed._   Regards,  	 Dirk Munkn   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 17:24:43 -0400 - From: Dave O'Brien <obrien@mail.amergent.com>2 Subject: Re: RMS Index ProblemA Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000815172351.00e344f0@mail.amergent.com>s  ? Very interesting.  I wish we had someone on staff who was more 4H knowledgeable on RMS issues.  I'm the admin, not the programmer, but as D usual all this seems to fall in my lap.  I've included the full FDL E below.  As you can see, they used index compression across the board:n  + TITLE   "HISTORY FILE W/EXPANDED FUND CODE")  2 IDENT   "17-OCT-1990 10:55:27   VAX-11 FDL Editor"   SYSTEM*          SOURCE                  "VAX/VMS"   FILE$          BEST_TRY_CONTIGUOUS     yes"          GLOBAL_BUFFER_COUNT     0(          ORGANIZATION            indexed   RECORD$          BLOCK_SPAN              yes%          CARRIAGE_CONTROL        nonef&          FORMAT                  fixed$          SIZE                    299   AREA 0$          BEST_TRY_CONTIGUOUS     yes"          BUCKET_SIZE             6   AREA 1$          BEST_TRY_CONTIGUOUS     yes"          BUCKET_SIZE             6   AREA 2$          BEST_TRY_CONTIGUOUS     yes"          BUCKET_SIZE             6   AREA 3$          BEST_TRY_CONTIGUOUS     yes"          BUCKET_SIZE             6   AREA 4$          BEST_TRY_CONTIGUOUS     yes"          BUCKET_SIZE             6   AREA 5$          BEST_TRY_CONTIGUOUS     yes"          BUCKET_SIZE             6   KEY 0e#          CHANGES                 noo"          DATA_AREA               0#          DATA_FILL               90s$          DATA_KEY_COMPRESSION    yes$          DATA_RECORD_COMPRESSION yes#          DUPLICATES              no "          INDEX_AREA              0$          INDEX_COMPRESSION       yes#          INDEX_FILL              90c"          LEVEL1_INDEX_AREA       0)          NAME                    "HI-KEY"n#          NULL_KEY                no."          PROLOG                  3#          SEG0_LENGTH             28J"          SEG0_POSITION           0'          TYPE                    stringh   KEY 1m$          CHANGES                 yes"          DATA_AREA               0#          DATA_FILL               90i$          DATA_KEY_COMPRESSION    yes$          DUPLICATES              yes"          INDEX_AREA              0$          INDEX_COMPRESSION       yes#          INDEX_FILL              90t"          LEVEL1_INDEX_AREA       0*          NAME                    "HI-DAYS"$          NULL_KEY                yes$          NULL_VALUE              '0'"          SEG0_LENGTH             5#          SEG0_POSITION           14n'          TYPE                    stringt   KEY 2 $          CHANGES                 yes"          DATA_AREA               1#          DATA_FILL               90u$          DATA_KEY_COMPRESSION    yes$          DUPLICATES              yes"          INDEX_AREA              1$          INDEX_COMPRESSION       yes#          INDEX_FILL              90u"          LEVEL1_INDEX_AREA       15          NAME                    "HI-SEQUENCE-NUMBER"h$          NULL_KEY                yes$          NULL_VALUE              '0'"          SEG0_LENGTH             9#          SEG0_POSITION           19u'          TYPE                    stringi   KEY 3h$          CHANGES                 yes"          DATA_AREA               2#          DATA_FILL               90o$          DATA_KEY_COMPRESSION    yes$          DUPLICATES              yes"          INDEX_AREA              2$          INDEX_COMPRESSION       yes#          INDEX_FILL              90R"          LEVEL1_INDEX_AREA       23          NAME                    "HI-16CHAR-CODE-1"u$          NULL_KEY                yes$          NULL_VALUE              '0'#          SEG0_LENGTH             16o$          SEG0_POSITION           249'          TYPE                    stringy   KEY 4s$          CHANGES                 yes"          DATA_AREA               3#          DATA_FILL               90 $          DATA_KEY_COMPRESSION    yes$          DUPLICATES              yes"          INDEX_AREA              3$          INDEX_COMPRESSION       yes#          INDEX_FILL              90 "          LEVEL1_INDEX_AREA       32          NAME                    "HI-POSTING-DATE"$          NULL_KEY                yes$          NULL_VALUE              '0'"          SEG0_LENGTH             5$          SEG0_POSITION           169'          TYPE                    stringy   KEY 5s$          CHANGES                 yes"          DATA_AREA               3#          DATA_FILL               90r$          DATA_KEY_COMPRESSION    yes$          DUPLICATES              yes"          INDEX_AREA              3$          INDEX_COMPRESSION       yes#          INDEX_FILL              90 "          LEVEL1_INDEX_AREA       3/          NAME                    "HI-REST-FUND" $          NULL_KEY                yes$          NULL_VALUE              'U'"          SEG0_LENGTH             2$          SEG0_POSITION           123'          TYPE                    stringi    + At 08:42 PM 8/15/00 +0000, Dirk Munk wrote:i  G >Sorry, not so. The key should contain "UU" to be a null-value. The keytG >should be made up completely out of the null-value, so in case the key C >is 5 characters long it should contain "UUUUU" to be a null-value.r >.H >And for 16 million records this is a very poor key. Try to make it moreH >unique by adding a more unique part of the record (a segmented key). ItG >will increase the size of the file, but inserting records will be much G >faster because you will avoid duplicate keys. You will need to do someiF >reprogramming I'm afraid .... Also never use index compression, it isF >bad for performance. Data compression is ok, index compression is not4 >(It is no longer default in Edit/fdl in VMS 7.2-1). >aI >You did not mention the bucket size. If the file is accessed sequentialyAE >(more or less), a large bucket size improves speed very much. Doubleu >bucket size = double speed. >i	 >Regards,r > 
 >Dirk Munk      @ ----------------------------------------------------------------4 Dave O'Brien                     Phone: 978-531-18004 Director, Information Technology Fax:   978-531-4451@ Amergent                         Email: obrien@mail.amergent.com9 9 Centennial Drive               http://www.amergent.com/U Peabody, MA  01960@ ----------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:01:27 -0700.0 From: Mark Berryman <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> Subject: Re: RMS Index Problem, Message-ID: <39998577.168C45F6@Mvb.Saic.Com>   Dave O'Brien wrote:E > @ > Very interesting.  I wish we had someone on staff who was moreI > knowledgeable on RMS issues.  I'm the admin, not the programmer, but asuE > usual all this seems to fall in my lap.  I've included the full FDL G > below.  As you can see, they used index compression across the board:l > - > TITLE   "HISTORY FILE W/EXPANDED FUND CODE"- > 4 > IDENT   "17-OCT-1990 10:55:27   VAX-11 FDL Editor" >  > SYSTEM, >          SOURCE                  "VAX/VMS" >  > FILE& >          BEST_TRY_CONTIGUOUS     yes$ >          GLOBAL_BUFFER_COUNT     0* >          ORGANIZATION            indexed >  > RECORD& >          BLOCK_SPAN              yes' >          CARRIAGE_CONTROL        nones( >          FORMAT                  fixed& >          SIZE                    299 >  > AREA 0& >          BEST_TRY_CONTIGUOUS     yes$ >          BUCKET_SIZE             6 >  > AREA 1& >          BEST_TRY_CONTIGUOUS     yes$ >          BUCKET_SIZE             6 >  > AREA 2& >          BEST_TRY_CONTIGUOUS     yes$ >          BUCKET_SIZE             6 >  > AREA 3& >          BEST_TRY_CONTIGUOUS     yes$ >          BUCKET_SIZE             6 >  > AREA 4& >          BEST_TRY_CONTIGUOUS     yes$ >          BUCKET_SIZE             6 >  > AREA 5& >          BEST_TRY_CONTIGUOUS     yes$ >          BUCKET_SIZE             6 >  > KEY 0 % >          CHANGES                 not$ >          DATA_AREA               0% >          DATA_FILL               90w& >          DATA_KEY_COMPRESSION    yes& >          DATA_RECORD_COMPRESSION yes% >          DUPLICATES              no $ >          INDEX_AREA              0& >          INDEX_COMPRESSION       yes% >          INDEX_FILL              90 $ >          LEVEL1_INDEX_AREA       0+ >          NAME                    "HI-KEY"u% >          NULL_KEY                noe$ >          PROLOG                  3% >          SEG0_LENGTH             28r$ >          SEG0_POSITION           0) >          TYPE                    string  >  > KEY 1c& >          CHANGES                 yes$ >          DATA_AREA               0% >          DATA_FILL               90r& >          DATA_KEY_COMPRESSION    yes& >          DUPLICATES              yes$ >          INDEX_AREA              0& >          INDEX_COMPRESSION       yes% >          INDEX_FILL              90u$ >          LEVEL1_INDEX_AREA       0, >          NAME                    "HI-DAYS"& >          NULL_KEY                yes& >          NULL_VALUE              '0'$ >          SEG0_LENGTH             5% >          SEG0_POSITION           14T) >          TYPE                    stringa >  > KEY 2u& >          CHANGES                 yes$ >          DATA_AREA               1% >          DATA_FILL               904& >          DATA_KEY_COMPRESSION    yes& >          DUPLICATES              yes$ >          INDEX_AREA              1& >          INDEX_COMPRESSION       yes% >          INDEX_FILL              90o$ >          LEVEL1_INDEX_AREA       17 >          NAME                    "HI-SEQUENCE-NUMBER" & >          NULL_KEY                yes& >          NULL_VALUE              '0'$ >          SEG0_LENGTH             9% >          SEG0_POSITION           19A) >          TYPE                    stringI >  > KEY 3 & >          CHANGES                 yes$ >          DATA_AREA               2% >          DATA_FILL               90U& >          DATA_KEY_COMPRESSION    yes& >          DUPLICATES              yes$ >          INDEX_AREA              2& >          INDEX_COMPRESSION       yes% >          INDEX_FILL              90 $ >          LEVEL1_INDEX_AREA       25 >          NAME                    "HI-16CHAR-CODE-1" & >          NULL_KEY                yes& >          NULL_VALUE              '0'% >          SEG0_LENGTH             16 & >          SEG0_POSITION           249) >          TYPE                    stringe >  > KEY 4f& >          CHANGES                 yes$ >          DATA_AREA               3% >          DATA_FILL               90e& >          DATA_KEY_COMPRESSION    yes& >          DUPLICATES              yes$ >          INDEX_AREA              3& >          INDEX_COMPRESSION       yes% >          INDEX_FILL              90)$ >          LEVEL1_INDEX_AREA       34 >          NAME                    "HI-POSTING-DATE"& >          NULL_KEY                yes& >          NULL_VALUE              '0'$ >          SEG0_LENGTH             5& >          SEG0_POSITION           169) >          TYPE                    stringE >  > KEY 5 & >          CHANGES                 yes$ >          DATA_AREA               3% >          DATA_FILL               90 & >          DATA_KEY_COMPRESSION    yes& >          DUPLICATES              yes$ >          INDEX_AREA              3& >          INDEX_COMPRESSION       yes% >          INDEX_FILL              90-$ >          LEVEL1_INDEX_AREA       31 >          NAME                    "HI-REST-FUND"8& >          NULL_KEY                yes& >          NULL_VALUE              'U'$ >          SEG0_LENGTH             2& >          SEG0_POSITION           123) >          TYPE                    string0 >   > This is probably the worst laid out ISAM file I've ever seen. A Performance on this file is almost certainly as bad as it can be.r  D If you are familiar with the ANALYZE/RMS and EDIT/FDL utilities, useE them to create a much better file layout.  If not, issue the command:   # $ ANALYZE/RMS/FDL indexed_file_name0  F This command will create a file with the same name as the indexed fileF with an extension of .FDL; send me a copy of that file.  I will returnF you a new .FDL file that can be used to create a new indexed file with much better performance.  C I am also curious to know if your application is locally written or G not.  If it is, I'm willing to bet that any programmer who came up withyF this file layout didn't know enough to specify anything beyond defaultG buffering for the file.  Any application needing high performance on annD ISAM file should be using either the RAB$_MBF field in the RAB or anF XAB$_MULTIBUFFER_COUNT item in an item list XAB when opening the file.    - > At 08:42 PM 8/15/00 +0000, Dirk Munk wrote:  > ...n* >  Also never use index compression, it isH > >bad for performance. Data compression is ok, index compression is not6 > >(It is no longer default in Edit/fdl in VMS 7.2-1).  F This advise is overstated.  Index compression does indeed consume moreG cpu cycles than non-compressed indices.  However, depending on the type G of data being indexed, it can drastically reduce the size of the index,wH reducing the number of I/Os needed to reference the index, which usuallyH *improves* performance.  Therefore, the decision on whether to use indexH compression or not should be based on your data, not a universal yeah or	 nay rule.u  G For example, I have an indexed file that contains the history data of a F news server.  The primary key of this file is the message-id of a newsH message, which is highly compressible.  By enabling index compression onG this key, I was able to reduce the depth of the index for this key to a G single level and to few enough buckets such that the entire index tends E to remain in memory.  Access to any datum in a several million recorda0 file was thus reduced to, at most, a single I/O.  
 Mark Berryman  Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 21:20:04 -0400e' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>. Subject: Re: RMS Index Problem( Message-ID: <8ncq42$8rc$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 Dave O'Brien <obrien@mail.amergent.com> wrote in message; news:4.3.2.7.2.20000815115329.00bfc3a0@mail.amergent.com... H > Our Data Management team has come up with an RMS puzzle that I haven't beenE > able to solve.  The file involved is an indexed file, 299 bytes per- record,- > 16 million total records.- >-I > The problem comes in when they needed an additional field indexed.  For  95% G > of the records, this field contains a U.  The other 5% of the records9 > contain either an E, R, or P.O  < Others have pretty much covered the appropriate suggestions:  H Make the unwanted value the null key value (it's been too long for me to@ remember exactly how to do this, but it can and should be done).  K However, that still leaves you with about 800,000 records indexed by only 3 L values, implying about 270,000 duplicate records per value.  This will stillL hurt your performance while inserting those records (though only relatively:L just the null key change could improve your overall insertion performance byL something like a factor of 1000, since only every 20th record is inserted inK the new index and the other 19 that would have been inserted would have hadL9 about 60 times as many duplicate values to skip over...).   F So to improve insertion performance for the 5% of the records actuallyJ inserted in the index, first try using large buckets for that index's dataJ level, and if insertion performance is still too slow then try using otherI fields in the record to append to the leading useful character and reduce.2 the number of duplicate values for each key value.  .   With this field not indexed, they try to runL > reports (Crystal Info through Easysoft ODBC), they often want to report onG > all records not equal to U.  With this field not indexed, this report  takestC > forever since it needs to scan through every record in that file.n Indexing$ > the file makes these reports fast. >aH > This is obviously an extremely inefficient index.  When trying to postK > additional records, without the additional index, 7 records are posted in I > less than 30 seconds.  With the index, it takes more than 12 minutes tovH > post these records.  I assume that RMS needs to rebuild the index with eachG > post, and rebuilding 95% of the 16 million records when a U record is0 addedr > is the problem.b  J Actually, it just has to scan sequentially over the millions of 'U' recordK pointers (in commensurately many buckets, depending on bucket size) alreadyeD present to find the end of the duplicate array - on every 'U' record0 insertion.  But that in itself can take a while.   - bill   > H > The programmers here seem to think there is a way in RMS to equate theH > value U with null, therefore increasing the index efficiency.  Is thisK > true?  Will it really help?  Anyone have any ideas on how we can have ourT > cake and eat it too? > @ > Let me know if posting the FDL for this file would be helpful. > ! > Thanks in advance for any help.  >  > Dave >O >  > B > ----------------------------------------------------------------6 > Dave O'Brien                     Phone: 978-531-18006 > Director, Information Technology Fax:   978-531-4451B > Amergent                         Email: obrien@mail.amergent.com; > 9 Centennial Drive               http://www.amergent.com/s > Peabody, MA  01960B > ---------------------------------------------------------------- >  >C   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 13:30:21 +1000 / From: "Phil Howell" <howellp@snowyhydro.com.au>  Subject: Re: RMS Index Problem3 Message-ID: <WTnm5.90491$N4.2173816@ozemail.com.au>B  8 Dave O'Brien <obrien@mail.amergent.com> wrote in message; news:4.3.2.7.2.20000815115329.00bfc3a0@mail.amergent.com...DH > Our Data Management team has come up with an RMS puzzle that I haven't beenE > able to solve.  The file involved is an indexed file, 299 bytes perP record,  > 16 million total records.XD This is not relevant to the problem at all but I thought it was goodA practice in rms to always have an even number of bytes per record  > I > The problem comes in when they needed an additional field indexed.  For  95% G > of the records, this field contains a U.  The other 5% of the records I > contain either an E, R, or P.  With this field not indexed, they try to  run L > reports (Crystal Info through Easysoft ODBC), they often want to report onG > all records not equal to U.  With this field not indexed, this report  takesPC > forever since it needs to scan through every record in that file.  Indexing$ > the file makes these reports fast. > H > This is obviously an extremely inefficient index.  When trying to postK > additional records, without the additional index, 7 records are posted inUI > less than 30 seconds.  With the index, it takes more than 12 minutes toIH > post these records.  I assume that RMS needs to rebuild the index with eachG > post, and rebuilding 95% of the 16 million records when a U record isD addedL > is the problem.  if you $ set file /stat <file>y then $ monitor /rms /filename=<file>sJ while the above processing is going on, you will see what rms i/o is going on+ you may have encountered "bucket splitting"VF setting the index fill percentage to a lower figure may improve things1 you do reorganise your file frequently don't you?  Phil >AH > The programmers here seem to think there is a way in RMS to equate theH > value U with null, therefore increasing the index efficiency.  Is thisK > true?  Will it really help?  Anyone have any ideas on how we can have our  > cake and eat it too? > @ > Let me know if posting the FDL for this file would be helpful. > ! > Thanks in advance for any help.  >  > Dave >  >  >DB > ----------------------------------------------------------------6 > Dave O'Brien                     Phone: 978-531-18006 > Director, Information Technology Fax:   978-531-4451B > Amergent                         Email: obrien@mail.amergent.com; > 9 Centennial Drive               http://www.amergent.com/  > Peabody, MA  01960B > ---------------------------------------------------------------- >  >T   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 16:16:15 -0400_% From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian>A0 Subject: Re: UAF & PLAINTEXT PASSWORDS (VMS 7.1)" Message-ID: <3999a4c4@news.si.com>  > system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) wrote:  G >Supplant $HASH_PASSWORD with one of your own device and have is output G >the password it is fed to the output.  The password is normally hashed H >to a 64 bit value (8 bytes) and therefore the password would need to be >restricted in length.  E One could also use the user-defined fields within each UAF record forTC storing the plaintext password, although this would need to be done ( programmatically and not with AUTHORIZE. --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comIA Smiths Industries, Inc.                   tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Aug 2000 20:17:23 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)) Subject: Re: VAX CXY08 maximum baud rates 6 Message-ID: <8nc8gj$ng7$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  U In article <3993CFAB.32CA655C@no.spam.allowed>, nic <no-spam@no.spam.allowed> writes:l3 :I'm trying to get a CXY08 to go faster than 38400..  ;   The CXY series controllers are hardware-limited to 38400.a  1   This is a hardware, not a device driver, limit.h  H   Note that some serial controllers -- the CXY series is not among them J   -- will run at 38400 by inserting nulls between each character, meaning G   the line is running at 38400 but the aggregate throughput is 19200.     G   Note that other serial controllers will run at something approaching eG   38400, but not actually at 38400 -- these devices can not and do not .G   claim support for 38400, but some other serial widgets will tolerate nJ   the difference in clocking from 38400.  Other widgets will not tolerate    the skew.i     The CXY can run at 38400.s   	--   D   And please help save the bangs (exclamation points) for use by theE   marketeers, lest the world's remaining stockpile of bang characterst    be unnecessarily depleted. :-)  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:58:40 GMT-2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>' Subject: Re: VAX/VMS Image to Alpha/VMS.3 Message-ID: <AWjm5.24$M62.8191@typhoon.aracnet.com>m  ( John E. Malmberg <wb8tyw@qsl.net> wrote:? > "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote in messaged3 > news:uZ1m5.1028$mO3.276689@typhoon.aracnet.com...SL >> OK, maybe I'm blind, but where?  I've looked through there and can't find >> anything that looks right.d  K > I was mistaken.  A search of deja turned up a stale URL, but trying a fewe/ > permutations of it resulted in the following:F  9 > http://www.support.compaq.com/amt/decmigrate/index.htmlE  D Cool!  Thanks for the URL, now to see what I can do with a couple of2 games, once I find the Hobbyist V1 CD I've got :^)   			ZaneA   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:36:06 GMTE From: jpculver@my-deja.com4 Subject: VAXcluster Console System alternative icons) Message-ID: <8nc2ik$c51$1@nnrp1.deja.com>x  E Can anyone tell me how to access the alternative icons for the VCS C3_F window?  I have searched the Compaq/Digital site for hours without anyG luck other than finding the software description document which says c3  icons can be changed. 	 thanks...S Phil CulverO   -- ---\________) ****_USAF___|>Making loud booms for Peace * ---/          Utah Test and Training Range    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.S   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 17:55:22 -040052 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>4 Subject: VAXcluster Console System alternative icons7 Message-ID: <200008151755_MC2-AFDA-CFF3@compuserve.com>   J         VCS was renamed to Polycenter Console Manager at least four years=  @ ago.  DEC sold the product to Computer Associates ca. 1997-1998.  D         If you sign away your firstborn for a CA License and supportJ contract you *might* get some icons with the current version of "Comand-I= T"$ which is what it's called this week.  J         You might find some icons on a pre-1998 Con-Dist CDROM.  Then aga= inH you might not.  In a previous life I had a large collection of icons forG Polycenter Console Manager that I inherited in the upgrade process fromn8 VCS.  I don't remember if any were distributed with PCM.H Icons for modern hardware (1996) were not available unless you made yourC own.  Lots of VAX 6000, 4000, 3000 series but precious few Alpha or  Storageworks products.    5 Message text written by INTERNET:jpculver@my-deja.com F >Can anyone tell me how to access the alternative icons for the VCS C3F window?  I have searched the Compaq/Digital site for hours without anyG luck other than finding the software description document which says c3  icons can be changed. 
 thanks...<   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Aug 2000 21:43:14 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)5 Subject: Re: Very Large Global Section Memory Locking 6 Message-ID: <8ncdhi$o3m$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  I In article <8nb2ji$h78$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, paul_hallam@my-deja.com writes:AH :I have a large global section, approx 1/2 GB ... which is to be shared 6 :by over 9 processes in a realtime information system.  C   Please specifically define your local real-time requirements, and @   particularly your response time requirements and your specific?   expected/required recovery requirements should the particularIC   response time requirements not be met.  (eg: How fast must it all A   go, and what happens if data gets dropped or arrives too late?)A  E   Please also identify the OpenVMS Alpha version, and please identify_   the specific Alpha platform.  G :I have been led to believe that there are problems when trying to lock ! :such large sections into memory.   D   I can't say I've seen nor heard of any particular problems in this1   area, can you post an example or cite a source?O  G   As a starting point for an example, I've made a C example of working  E   with global sections available via the OpenVMS Ask The Wizard area:I  )     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/   F   This C example works with backing storage, and not with some of the E   features (eg: sections that are explicitly memory-resident with no 9C   backing storage) that have been added in recent OpenVMS releases.    It does not map a large file.E  G   There are a couple of approaches that can be applied, ranging from a FH   section without backing storage (which, by definition, means the pagesK   have to be memory-resident) to (depending on the real-time requirements) s7   simply using the existing page faulting mechanisms.  _  J   nb: "Locking memory" involves either locking the pages into the working 1   set, or locking the pages into physical memory.   K   In the former case, it would mean the working set would have to be large DI   enough to permit it.  In traditional thirty-two bit virtual space, you  G   have at most one gigabyte available (assuming a P0 space map, and the K   image itself resides in P0).  With sixty-four bit space, you have rather  H   more virtual address space available to you.  (Sixty-four bit virtual G   address space is available on OpenVMS Alpha V7.0 and later.  Various UG   sixty-four bit system services are available on or have been added to_5   recent OpenVMS Alpha releases, starting with V7.0.)   I   In the case of locking the pages into memory, you would obviously need nF   sufficient physical memory for this, and for everything else needed.  J   In the case of backing storage (should that be needed), you need a file J   (or pagefile) big enough.  The upper bound for the size of an individualL   file tends to be circa one terabyte (technically two terabytes, but AFAIK K   that assumes that the value is correctly and consistently interpreted as iH   unsigned throughout, something that has not been tested nor verified).  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 19:55:54 GMTi4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>  Subject: Re: VMS on a notebook ?< Message-ID: <efhm5.28220$NH2.238722@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  K > But you could have a look at http://www.novaglobal.com.sg/alphastorm.htmli .t! > It is 16 kg but it is portable.   I Yep. IIRC Compaq's first portable weighed about 38 pounds or about 17 kg.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:34:23 GMT % From: hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net>   Subject: Re: VMS on a notebook ?0 Message-ID: <3999C752.C06FEF4A@bellatlantic.net>  * think about charon vax on a fast notebook.' Might work...I have not tried it - YET.  ymmv bobe     Beyonder wrote:  > E > I got to thinking that Sun has these cool sparc notebooks, and eveneI > older models like the tadpole boxes which are fairly cheap (depending),i > so...t > C > Is it possible to get VMS on a notebook in any way shape or form?uI > I was thinking for recent technology, maybe an Alpha notebook (if theren* > are such things) could possibly run VMS?3 > Are there older notebooks from DEC that run VMS ?e4 > anyway to get something small, light and portable?I > the smallest I can think of is a 4000/vlc (the size of a vxt2000 base).e > F > Anyone have any ideas how you could do this, or if it's possible, or > maybe evenG > know where I can find one or maybe maybe have one you'd be willing tor: > part with (although it might be cheaper to make my own?) >  > enquiring minds want to know.m >  > Dan.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 23:28:09 GMTB2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>  Subject: Re: VMS on a notebook ?3 Message-ID: <dmkm5.28$M62.7990@typhoon.aracnet.com>r  " Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net> wrote:C > Is it possible to get VMS on a notebook in any way shape or form?mI > I was thinking for recent technology, maybe an Alpha notebook (if therev* > are such things) could possibly run VMS?3 > Are there older notebooks from DEC that run VMS ? 4 > anyway to get something small, light and portable?I > the smallest I can think of is a 4000/vlc (the size of a vxt2000 base).   F > Anyone have any ideas how you could do this, or if it's possible, or > maybe evenG > know where I can find one or maybe maybe have one you'd be willing tol: > part with (although it might be cheaper to make my own?)  L I think the 4000/VLC is your best bet.  That and either a Mac or PC laptop. K The VLC is small enough that if you get a big enough laptop case you should0I be able to squeeze the VLC, the Laptop, and all the cables into the case.   J For cables you'd need a serial cable and a network cable (if using 10BaseTH you can use a crossover cable).  If you're really adventurous, you couldL take a laptop and the VLC, disassemble both, and reassemble them as a singleJ unit.  I'm not sure that you could have the result battery powered, and itK would still take both powersupplies.  I've been threatening to do this, butoL haven't had the time.  Plus coming up with a laptop with a big enough screenK isn't cheap yet, I did some tests and for what I want I'd need a minimum oft/ a 800x600 screen, but 1024x768 would be better.d  L In the mean time should I want to have a portable VMS machine I'll just takeI the VLC and an old Powerbook I've got, and just telnet in and do without n DECwindows.C   			Zane    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 23:42:19 GMTq! From: Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net>x  Subject: Re: VMS on a notebook ?' Message-ID: <3999D58B.744FF6CE@vrx.net>c  1 Sorry, could you give me complete dialing number?r I'm in north america.s   B.  % Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk wrote:W  ? > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plazad > K > Try David Turner at Island - I know he was after getting some refurbishedoH > Tadpole Alphabooks from someone in the UK, but not sure how he got on. >u > Steve Spires > 7 > Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net> on 15/08/2000 12:57:34 PMs >e" > To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- > cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages)nD > From:      Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net>, 15 August 2000, 12:57 p.m. >b > VMS on a notebook ?c > E > I got to thinking that Sun has these cool sparc notebooks, and evenrI > older models like the tadpole boxes which are fairly cheap (depending),  > so...  >gC > Is it possible to get VMS on a notebook in any way shape or form?uI > I was thinking for recent technology, maybe an Alpha notebook (if there * > are such things) could possibly run VMS?3 > Are there older notebooks from DEC that run VMS ? 4 > anyway to get something small, light and portable?I > the smallest I can think of is a 4000/vlc (the size of a vxt2000 base).  >-F > Anyone have any ideas how you could do this, or if it's possible, or > maybe evenG > know where I can find one or maybe maybe have one you'd be willing to : > part with (although it might be cheaper to make my own?) >n > enquiring minds want to know.l >i > Dan.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 14:14:27 -0500-7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>   Subject: Re: VMS Vs any other OS- Message-ID: <39999693.BAC613D3@earthlink.net>    Bill Todd wrote: [SNIP]G > I'd suggest you re-visit David's suggestions about the likely generalNL > incompetence of the Harvard Business School in areas related to marketing:  ! WHEN DID I EVER SAY THAT ????!!!!2  6 GET YOUR DAMNED FACTS STRAIGHT FOR ONCE, WILL YOU !!!!   -- c David J. Dachterap dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/X   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 20:50:24 -0400c' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>   Subject: Re: VMS Vs any other OS( Message-ID: <8ncocd$7ck$1@pyrite.mv.net>  @ David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message' news:39999693.BAC613D3@earthlink.net...o > Bill Todd wrote: > [SNIP]I > > I'd suggest you re-visit David's suggestions about the likely generaloC > > incompetence of the Harvard Business School in areas related toq
 marketing: > # > WHEN DID I EVER SAY THAT ????!!!!      On 8/2 you said:  F > Seeing as the book I referenced is published by the Harvard Business SchoolI > and based on its studies over the past 40+ years, I think that base hasx > already been touched.   L ...and maybe not. The source fails to impress me, and the conclusions as youI cite them are preposterous, at best. There's FAR too much evidence to theoH contrary in today's market. I'd need to see extremely fine detail of theL surveyors and their subjects before I could even consider believing anything) so far out of touch with today's reality.e  J Besides, do you believe for one moment that ANYone associated with Harvard? is going to be so humble as to admit having been taken in by an   advertisement? I don't think so!    K And on 8/3 (though misquoting me - funny how bothered you get when you evenoL *think* the shoe is on the other foot), you make your deep reverence for HBS again obvious by saying:  E But, Bill Todd says that advertising and marketing are inneffectual -n@ Harvard Business School says so, and as we all know, HBS is God!     Then, on 8/4, you say:  K Yeah. Lotsa folks - including some Harvard Business School people - seem to ! find common sense rather elusive.s     >a8 > GET YOUR DAMNED FACTS STRAIGHT FOR ONCE, WILL YOU !!!!  ) Unlike some people, I make it a point to.-   - bill   >O > -- > David J. DachteraP > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ >o< > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 20:57:41 -050097 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>-  Subject: Re: VMS Vs any other OS- Message-ID: <3999F515.5D737C95@earthlink.net>1  * Contrary to even his own better judgement, Bill Todd wrote: > B > David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message) > news:39999693.BAC613D3@earthlink.net...n > > Bill Todd wrote:
 > > [SNIP]K > > > I'd suggest you re-visit David's suggestions about the likely generalsE > > > incompetence of the Harvard Business School in areas related to  > marketing: > >e% > > WHEN DID I EVER SAY THAT ????!!!!d >  > On 8/2 you said: > H > > Seeing as the book I referenced is published by the Harvard Business > SchoolK > > and based on its studies over the past 40+ years, I think that base hasl > > already been touched.  > 4 > ...and maybe not. The source fails to impress me,   C ...in NO WAY either implies or assigns incompetence, in any degree.v   > and the conclusions as you > cite themr  3 ***KEY PHRASE*** Mr. Dictionary: "as you cite them"    > are preposterous, at best.  G Since when does reaching a conclusion which some people find dubious or-6 unacceptable constitute "likely general incompetence"?  & > There's FAR too much evidence to theJ > contrary in today's market. I'd need to see extremely fine detail of theN > surveyors and their subjects before I could even consider believing anything+ > so far out of touch with today's reality.t  G ...in NO WAY either implies or assigns incompetence, in any degree. TheeE only concept that is EVEN REMOTELY implied is a failure to acquire toe/ convey credibility - again, "as you cite them".o  rL > Besides, do you believe for one moment that ANYone associated with HarvardA > is going to be so humble as to admit having been taken in by an0" > advertisement? I don't think so!  C Satirical. In NO WAY either implies or assigns incompetence, in anyp degree.e   M > And on 8/3 (though misquoting me - funny how bothered you get when you even N > *think* the shoe is on the other foot), you make your deep reverence for HBS > again obvious by saying: > G > But, Bill Todd says that advertising and marketing are inneffectual -sB > Harvard Business School says so, and as we all know, HBS is God!  sC Satirical. In NO WAY either implies or assigns incompetence, in anyc degree.t   > Then, on 8/4, you say: > M > Yeah. Lotsa folks - including some Harvard Business School people - seem to-# > find common sense rather elusive.n  C Ridicule - pure and simple. Same reasons as above. In NO WAY either-H implies or assigns incompetence, in any degree, but does not acknowledge? credibility or thoroughness, for the reasons cited: conclusions.H apparently contrary to the pervasiveness of marketing and advertising inF the corporate budgeting process; that is, people spend mil/billions on@ marketing and advertising but do not appear to be effected by it; themselves, per the info. you quoted - pardoxical, at best.g  h > >n: > > GET YOUR DAMNED FACTS STRAIGHT FOR ONCE, WILL YOU !!!! > + > Unlike some people, I make it a point to.t   ...as do I!   @ ...and as usual, you're presenting "facts" that DO NOT EXIST !!!  B SHOW ME *ONE* - _JUST_ __O_N_E__ OCCURRENCE OF THE WORDS "LIKELY",F GENERAL" OR "INCOMPETENT" IN THE FOREGOING QUOTES!!! JUST ONE - I DARE YOU !!!C  6 THERE'S SATIRE, RIDICULE AND OUTRIGHT DISRESPECT - BUTF __A__B__S__O__L__U__T__E__L__Y__ __N__O__W__H__E__R__E__ DOES THE WORD "INCOMPETENT" APPEAR !!!  C NEITHER DOES THE WORD "GENERAL" OR "LIKELY" !!!! ...OR THE EVEN THE E CONCEPT OF "LIKELY GENERAL INCOMPETENCE" (AND THAT INCLUDES THE QUOTE_F "Lotsa folks - including some Harvard Business School people - seem to$ find common sense rather elusive.").  H Stop making an ass of yourself, Bill. Stop putting words in my mouth andH stop making an ass of yourself. Just drop it! It's over! Let it go! Move on!/  ; ...or do you enjoy watching your precious time "evaporate"?t   -- w David J. Dachteray dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 03:43:17 GMT1% From: dpm@myths.com (David P. Murphy)   Subject: Re: VMS Vs any other OS/ Message-ID: <spk3elplr5j171@news.supernews.com>   & Bill Todd <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote:  ( > David P. Murphy <dpm@myths.com> wrote   < >> It's a free newsgroup, they're welcome to post as long as >>   they're polite.  F > Your opinion, which you're welcome to.  I framed my comments as *my*I > opinion, which I see no reason to change:  in my opinion, there comes a D > point where continuing output-only contributions become pollution.  C how reminiscent of carl.os.vms:  one person deciding when "opinion"e becomes "pollution".  I > As I've said earlier, this is not the first time David has persisted in J > babbling on ad nauseam rather than showing any indication of interest inH > participating in an *evolving* dialogue.  It happens just infrequentlyM > enough that it's easy to get sucked in (and disgusted) the next time beforea9 > realizing that dialogue is not what he's interested in.  >rG > JF is more erratic:  I often believe he genuinely wants to carry on anN > legitimate conversation, but just gets so caught up in his own position that > it becomes impossible.  I one more time:  if they're that bad, then the rest of us already know it.c: if they're not that bad, you're making a fool of yourself.  F >> A signficantly better basis?  Okay.  The only basis allowed?  Nope.  6 > The problem is that JF offered no basis whatsoever,   I this is not a problem.  he posts, we read, we decide if he's cool or not. I and even if he's not, it's still not a problem, because we're not stupid; I we can come to the conclusion of "gee, it sure seems like bill knows moret, about cutler than anyone else who's posted."  : >>> you both simply appear to like to hear yourselves talk  > >> [ring ring]  "Hello, Mr. Pot?  This is Mr. Kettle calling."  M > If you can't tell the difference, then trying to explain it would just seeml > like more of the same.  6 alternate hypothesis:  it *would* be more of the same.  L > I'm sure it's in part because I get annoyed with myself for getting suckedM > into David's trolls:  it's one of the few things he appears to be competent' > at.   D so it's a *BAD* thing for JF or David to infer cutler's personality,I but a *GOOD* thing for you to -->APPEAR<-- to infer David's competencies. I gotcha!  keep using weasel words, no one will be offended if you do that.A  M > The only crusade I have any interest in here is VMS's resurrection, which IaK > tend to believe is pretty much completely dependent upon a user base thateL > doesn't appear likely to rise to the occasion.  It's probably time to give > up.e  L I personally think VMS's resurrection is dependent upon the /SORT= qualifierI being added to the DIRECTORY command.  unix has had "ls -r -t" for years,oJ and I gotta admit, it's pretty embarrassing when people ask me to list theB most recent files and I have to invoke a kludgy command procedure.  I I'm not sure what more the readers of comp.os.vms could do --- we alreadymI like it, pay for it, and use it.  In fact I've noticed that Palmer didn't   pay much attention to us at all.  E >> Try to surprise me by playing nice, Bill.  You're not the only kidr >> in this sandbox.m  L > The way I play usually reflects what the people I'm responding to deserve.   And you're proud of that?    ok dpmp --  3 David P. Murphy          http://www.myths.com/~dpm/ - systems programmer        ftp://ftp.myths.comdC                          mailto:dpm@myths.com            (personal)cC COGITO ERGO DISCLAMO     mailto:dmurphy@ac-tech.com          (work)o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 01:32:51 -0400e' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>   Subject: Re: VMS Vs any other OS( Message-ID: <8nd8u2$p0u$1@pyrite.mv.net>  0 David P. Murphy <dpm@myths.com> wrote in message) news:spk3elplr5j171@news.supernews.com...b( > Bill Todd <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote: >e) > > David P. Murphy <dpm@myths.com> wrotee >p> > >> It's a free newsgroup, they're welcome to post as long as > >>   they're polite. >tH > > Your opinion, which you're welcome to.  I framed my comments as *my*K > > opinion, which I see no reason to change:  in my opinion, there comes aeF > > point where continuing output-only contributions become pollution. >iE > how reminiscent of carl.os.vms:  one person deciding when "opinion"i > becomes "pollution".  K And another deciding in a different manner.  Seems you value my right to an5I opinion somewhat less than your own.  Or perhaps you're just incapable ofV understanding such subtleties.   - bill   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Aug 2000 15:11:30 -0400/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson) - Subject: Re: VMS vs unix (the true contender)I* Message-ID: <8nc4l2$asm$1@lisa.gemair.com>  * In article <39997C40.8030F49A@uk.sun.com>,D Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: >Mike Flaherty wrote:  >jG >> As a long time VMS administrator, I remember triying to defend DEC's.O >> equipment / OS while Sun managed to lie and spin their systems as being more I >> open (true) and cheaper (demonstrably false) than or DEC's proprietaryS >> systems.c > H >Oh come on this is the old Sun did the dirty on good old DEC line thatsK >so so tired. DEC did it to themselves, Sun didn't push DEC out of accountsnF >by lying DEC simply evaporated. One day they were there the next theyI >had gone, sales people, support people marketing etc. If you don't agreeuC >with this then ask someone who worked(s) for one of the big Pharmsy >companies in the UK.,  H While these markets might be volatile, companies just don't "evaporate",D they are edged out by competition.  Customers don't just watch theirA vendors disappear, there's usually considerable motivation not tonB change.  Typically, this is the result of salesmanship on the part of the new vendor.  ? The closest thing we've seen to a Sun salseman in this group is.@ Andrew Harrison, who spins constantly and even occasionally getsB caught in a lie (like the case awhile back when Sun product people> had to swoop in and correct the record on where some Sun eMailB server software originated, someone here said that it was acquired? with the purchase of the company that did the PMDF product and  # Andrew Harrison contradicted them).    >pD >As for Open, I don't know how you can try to defend OpenVMS on that= >charge. Wasn't OpenVMS called OpenVMS in part because it had F >POSIX support and we all know what happened to that. There are enoughK >postings to this group from people wishing that OpenVMS was more standard,oM >lamenting the lack of things like the csh and ksh (gods even NT has the korn  >shell). >m  A I don't know what to make of this paragraph.  Is this a strawman  C to attack this man into the ground or do you have so little readingh comprehension?  D If you go back and read what was said, Mr. Flaherty said, explicitlyC that what the Sun salesmen did was say that their systems were more  open and that this was true.   >[snip]l? >TechWise used the relative SPECint performance of the systems T, >to adjust the system sizes for each vendor. >[much spinning snipped]  E I'm not prepared to argue your dizzying array of statistics except to J comment that if these TCO numbers were based on SpecINT then I'd expect toG see a much greater advantage for Alpha based systems if you factored in E SpecFP ratings.  Last I checked, the AlphaServer systems were leadersbE in FP performance.  If you factored FP performance in, I would expect D that a smaller relatively less expensive system would be compared toA a very high-end Sparc system, making the TCO much better for the   AlphaServer system.L   >  >Andrew Harrison >Enterprise IT Architect >n >o >t  D "Enterprise IT Architect"?  Why is it that you always are ready withD so much material that was obviously generated from the Sun Marketing Department?:  A Then, we've seen reports on this newsgroup that you were sighted r+ supporting sales demonstrations in England.r  A Saying you are one thing when you are obviously something else ise a form of lying.   -Jordan Henderson1 jordan@greenapple.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 20:11:14 +0200 ( From: Bernd Eckstein <B.Eckstein@cli.de># Subject: Re: Web Base Telnet clientg& Message-ID: <399987C2.187EE859@cli.de>   Bill Stouffer schrieb: > K > Does have experience or an option to offer on accessing VMS systems via ac > web based telnet session. J > I need to provide 700 Windows 2K and NT machines assess to a VAX running# > TcpWare and an Alpha running UCX.t  @ Try The Java Telnet Application/Applet http://www.mud.de/se/jta/? I only use it to access Linux. VMS-Connections from Win-Systems ? theres a niffy little Telnet/ssh-Client called Putty. Less thanwB 200KB, only one EXE, no registry or othe nasty things, so easy to A distribute in your Intranet. Works great with VMS. Have a look atM  2 http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/   Hope it helps.   -- h< to be@cli.de or not to be@cli.de, that's not the question...  ( Mit freundlichen Gruessen / Best regardsC B.Eckstein, CLI GmbH - mailto:B.Eckstein@cli.de - http://www.cli.debC Matthiashofstr. 28, D-52064 Aachen - Fon: +49 241 47051-0, Fax: -89    ------------------------------   Date: 15 Aug 2000 21:51:42 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)1 Subject: Re: Whilst on the subject of listings... 6 Message-ID: <8nce1e$o3m$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  R In article <FzB4xo.Eup@spcuna.spc.edu>, Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> writes:  C   The OpenVMS source listings kit part numbers are included in the     OpenVMS FAQ, as well...s  g In article <LFp8ErdJA1xZ@eisner.decus.org>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:a ..F :Talking to a Deccie some years ago, I got the feeling that if you hadD :the $25,000 they could make it available again (albeit censored for, :trade secrets, just like the listings kit).  G   Write your name and address on the back of a $25,000 cashier's (bank)oH   check made out to Compaq OpenVMS Engineering, remember to include the H   appropriately-signed legal agreements (eg: NDAs), and, well, you might5   get a CD set or you might get your check back.  :-)i  J   The really "fun" part is not so much access to the OpenVMS sources, but J   with the rest of the build environment that is necessary if you want to F   really want to rebuild OpenVMS from the sources.  VDE (qv: Freeware)I   is part of this, as is a complex collection of DCL procedures, as well N,   as a wide variety of tools and compilers.)  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 12:11:43 +1200r. From: Nivlesh Chandra <NChandra001@itc.gov.fj> Subject: X windowsO Message-ID: <791C2856E8FDD211BAFB0008C759919501A62861@exchange01.govnet.gov.fj>t  H I have a X windows enabled VMS system. I want to connect to it using a XE windows emulation system from a windows platform. I do not know whichrI command to run to tell the VMS Server to start a X windows session for mei; and dump the output on my windows based emulation software.t  I Can anyone please provide me withe the commandline for achieving this....u   Thanks Nivleshw   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 12:45:59 +1200o. From: Nivlesh Chandra <NChandra001@itc.gov.fj> Subject: RE: X windowsO Message-ID: <791C2856E8FDD211BAFB0008C759919501A62862@exchange01.govnet.gov.fj>S  L thanks for your reply. Actually I guess my question is a bit anbiguous. Okay/ this is the scenario that I have at the moment. I There is this X windows program called SmartX that I use to connect to my I VMS Server. Now when I configure my SmartX session (which is actually a X J windows client), there is a place where I give it my username,password andK the command to run when it starts up. This command is run when a successfulPJ connection is made to the server. This is done I believe so that the usersL can configure their own commands at startup (maybe run a script that will do1 some tasks and then startup a X windows session).:L Anyways that aside.. now what I would like to know is the commandline that IL will specify in my X windows client (which in this case is SmartX) so that I can enable a X windows session.r   Thanks Nivleshe   -----Original Message-----F From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com [mailto:Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com]) Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 12:40 PMe To: Nivlesh Chandran Subject: Re: X windows      H Wrong question, Nivlesh, it's the other way around. The PC software asksF the VMS system for an X-Windows session. You don't say which X-WindowsF software you have, but on eXcursion I do this by enabling XDMCP in theH control panel (it has its own tab). Once that's done, eXcursion will askI you to choose an XDMCP host whenever you start it up. This is the easiesti way I've found.m   Shanea          B Nivlesh Chandra <NChandra001@itc.gov.fj> on 08/15/2000 05:11:43 PM   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comc cc:r   Subject:  X windows     H I have a X windows enabled VMS system. I want to connect to it using a XE windows emulation system from a windows platform. I do not know whichnI command to run to tell the VMS Server to start a X windows session for me'; and dump the output on my windows based emulation software.v  I Can anyone please provide me withe the commandline for achieving this....o   Thanks Nivleshi   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 15:51:11 -0500,* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: Re: [OT] Vax Hardware- Message-ID: <0033000002625272000002L022*@MHS>a   =0Ai        H Hello all this is slightly off topic here but i didn't have anywhere el= se toa turn.sF I have recently purchashed an old VAXstaion 3100. I'm trying to find a monitorIH that will work with this or some way to use it. If anyone is able to po= int, me+ in the right direction that would be great.u   Thanks nf0y  .      Not off-topic at all.  May I call you nf?  2      The first place you should go is the VMS FAQ:  .      ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/dec-faq/vms  0      You'll find lots of good information there.    :      Then, there's a Owner's Guide for the VAXstation 3100      Model 76 online at:  :      http://www.whiteice.com/~williamwebb/intro/DOC-i.html  E      It should help you get configured, regardless of your particularn      model of VAXstation.s  C      Specific information about supported graphics options is here:i  <      http://www.whiteice.com/~williamwebb/Chap8/DOC-8-2.html          Hope this helps        WWWebb          =    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 23:15:02 GMT 2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> Subject: Re: [OT] Vax Hardware3 Message-ID: <W9km5.27$M62.7990@typhoon.aracnet.com>s   nf0 <nf0@gte.net> wrote:N > Hello all this is slightly off topic here but i didn't have anywhere else to > turn. H > I have recently purchashed an old VAXstaion 3100. I'm trying to find a	 > monitor,L > that will work with this or some way to use it. If anyone is able to point > me- > in the right direction that would be great.   I Personally I wouldn't bother with a monitor on an old VAXstation 3100.  I"L just use a VT320 or VT420 terminal on mine, or log into it over the network.   			ZaneC   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.456 ************************