1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 17 Aug 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 459       Contents:. Re: /float qualifier and resulting performance. Re: /float qualifier and resulting performance ??== DCPS 1.8 available. Re: Adding new mail accounts ASCII control characters in DCL # Re: ASCII control characters in DCL # Re: ASCII control characters in DCL # Re: ASCII control characters in DCL # Re: ASCII control characters in DCL # Re: ASCII control characters in DCL 7 Re: attachments lost when using set forward in VMS-mail 7 Re: attachments lost when using set forward in VMS-mail 7 Re: attachments lost when using set forward in VMS-mail 7 Re: attachments lost when using set forward in VMS-mail 7 Re: attachments lost when using set forward in VMS-mail 7 Re: attachments lost when using set forward in VMS-mail * bizarre disappearing mouse pointer problem. Re: bizarre disappearing mouse pointer problem. Re: bizarre disappearing mouse pointer problem. Re: bizarre disappearing mouse pointer problem. Re: bizarre disappearing mouse pointer problem Re: Caching RMS Block I/O  RE: Caching RMS Block I/O  Re: Caching RMS Block I/O  Re: CC/include question  Re: CETS2000+ Re: Cluster transaction processing paradigm + RE: Cluster transaction processing paradigm + Re: Cluster transaction processing paradigm + Re: Cluster transaction processing paradigm + Re: Cluster transaction processing paradigm + Re: Cluster transaction processing paradigm + Re: Cluster transaction processing paradigm * Re: Commitment to DII COE, missing pieces? Re: Copy from VMS to NT server0 DCPS PostScript printers bar codes SAP tech note Re: Detached process question . Re: DJE Systems DECUS Presentations on the Web Re: dose vms run on intel  Re: File Headers Re: From VMS to NT2 Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD2 Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD2 Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD2 Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD2 Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD2 Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD< Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS systems (was Re: dose vms run on intel)& RE: If Airlines were operating systems& Re: If Airlines were operating systems> Re: Is there an OpenVMS success story about this? -- Follow up Java support on OpenVMS? Re: Java support on OpenVMS? Re: Java support on OpenVMS? Re: Java support on OpenVMS? Re: Mass adding of users?  RE: Moving at Internet Speed Re: Newbie Decnet+ Question  Re: Newbie Decnet+ Question  Re: NFS serving and yp old vms directory structure?$ Online Manual for a mylex controller Re: Posix support  Re: Posix support = Re: Programmatic access to byte count rx/tx on TCP/IP socket.  Re: Reconfigure Network Cards  Re: Reconfigure Network Cards  Re: RMS Index Problem  Re: RMS Index Problem   Sugestion for new error messages& RE: VAXStation 4000 Model 60 internals& RE: VAXStation 4000 Model 60 internals& Re: VAXStation 4000 Model 60 internals& Re: VAXStation 4000 Model 60 internals Re: VMS hobbyist version RE: VMS hobbyist version Re: VMS Vs any other OS $ Re: VMS vs unix (the true contender)$ Re: VMS vs unix (the true contender)$ Re: VMS vs unix (the true contender)( Re: Whilst on the subject of listings...  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 07:41:13 -0400 . From: John Hasstedt <John.Hasstedt@sunysb.edu>7 Subject: Re: /float qualifier and resulting performance * Message-ID: <399BCF59.66E0F044@sunysb.edu>  F You can use f$getsyi to test whether the floating point is in hardware or emulated:    $ x=f$getsyi("g_float_emulated") $ sho sym x 
   X = "FALSE"   G You can check f_float_emulated, d_float_emulated, g_float_emulated, and  h_float_emulated.   9 "Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515" wrote:  > 3 > In article <399ADCF4.6ABEAA3F@trailing-edge.com>, 7 >         Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> writes:  > [...] ? > > On modern VAXes, will /G_FLOAT give the same performance as " > > /NOG_FLOAT ?  For older VAXes? > > F > > I seem to recall, at some point in the past, encountering a 11/780A > > that didn't have G_FLOAT hardware present, and it ran my code > > > (which used G_FLOAT) about a hundred times slower than the* > > 11/780 that did have G_FLOAT hardware. > J >         Yes,  that's  my  recollection  as  well.   Unless  you  had theJ >     specific  (hardware) "option" for G-float and/or H-float  installed,J >     arithmetic on those datatypes  was  done  in  software  rather  thanJ >     hardware.   [As Tim well knows, D-float is/was the VAX native double* >     precision floating point data type.] > J >         Would you consider a VAXstation  4000/60  a "modern VAX"?  I canJ >     try  putting together a test program and see what I get.  Oh, I alsoJ >     have VAX 66x0's I can test on...those are pretty modern (for variousJ >     values of "modern :-).   But  I  thought  one  of  the  things  thatJ >     happened  over  the  evolution  of  the  VAX was to _remove_ variousJ >     instructions   from    the    hardware    and    emulate   them   inJ >     software/firmware.    The   various  MACRO   character   comparison/J >     manipulation instructions come to mind,  but  I'm  sure  there  were
 >     others.  >  >         -Ken > --O >  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Edu < >  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924< >  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515P >  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------D >  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 15:00:49 GMT - From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> 7 Subject: Re: /float qualifier and resulting performance ( Message-ID: <399BFE1F.845DEA8E@ohio.edu>  L I recall a VAX-11/750 option for Writable Control Store, which came with theL microcode modules to load into it to implement G and H floating.  The resultH was a 750 that could do some jobs significantly faster than a stock 780!  J When it broke once, the symptom was a fatal RMS bugcheck.  Diagnosing that was not simple!   #                                 RDP      Tim Shoppa wrote:    > Steve Lionel wrote:  > > 3 > > On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 15:41:14 +0200, Jouk Jansen & > > <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> wrote: > > H > > >Is there any difference in performance of the resulting applicationJ > > >when compiled either with /float=ieee or /float=g_float, when runningK > > >on a VMS7.2-1 system? Especially programs wriiten in F90 and C have my  > > >interest. > >   > > No difference using Fortran. > < > I'm pretty sure the original question (and Steve's answer)= > implied that the hardware platform was an Alpha.  So let me  > ask a different question:  > = > On modern VAXes, will /G_FLOAT give the same performance as   > /NOG_FLOAT ?  For older VAXes? > D > I seem to recall, at some point in the past, encountering a 11/780? > that didn't have G_FLOAT hardware present, and it ran my code < > (which used G_FLOAT) about a hundred times slower than the( > 11/780 that did have G_FLOAT hardware. >  > Tim.   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:42:24 +0100 , From: aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de (Hans M. Aus)! Subject: ??== DCPS 1.8 available. D Message-ID: <aus-1708001042240001@wvia71.virologie.uni-wuerzburg.de>  P Is DCPS 1.8 available yet and where can I find a list of the supported printers?   --  B Cheers, Hans M. Aus, Wuerzburg, Germany,  aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:42:40 -0400 % From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian> % Subject: Re: Adding new mail accounts $ Message-ID: <399c23be$1@news.si.com>  3 >What is the procedure to add new mail accounts????   L For a VMS user, a mail account is added automatically the first time someoneI sends that user a message.  If the user has set values in his or her mail K profile for, for example, a mail subdirectory, VMSmail will create the mail 9 file in that subdirectory when the first message arrives.  --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.com A Smiths Industries, Inc.                   tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent < Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:46:22 -0400 ! From: Rudy Reyes <rreyes@psu.edu> ( Subject: ASCII control characters in DCL+ Message-ID: <s99bd098.058@SMTP.HMC.PSU.EDU>   G I'm writing a com file, in its output file I'm generating,  I need to = E include (embed) ASSCII control characters, such as CR, STX, EOT, etc. I In starting my test I used the "CR" lexical    F$FAO("!/")   which is a = * combination of CR+LF  (I need CR alone)=20L Q:  How do you embed ASCII control chars. in building a file in VMS/DCL?.  =I Are there other lexical expressions not listed in the VMS DCL Dictionary?   . Any help/suggestions will be much appreciated,  
 Rudy Reyes   rreyes@psu.edu      =20   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:59:01 +0100 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>, Subject: Re: ASCII control characters in DCL+ Message-ID: <8nh246$t06@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>   T "Rudy Reyes" <rreyes@psu.edu> wrote in message news:s99bd098.058@SMTP.HMC.PSU.EDU...  d >Q:  How do you embed ASCII control chars. in building a file in VMS/DCL?.  Are there >other lexical1 expressions not listed in the VMS DCL Dictionary?   P You're looking in the wrong place. Try starting at the beginning of the book and" reading from there :) Seriously :|   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 09:55:03 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com> , Subject: Re: ASCII control characters in DCL( Message-ID: <399C18E7.BF3DC6E9@mmaz.com>   Rudy Reyes wrote:    > Q:  How do you embed ASCII control chars. in building a file in VMS/DCL?.  Are there other lexical expressions not listed in the VMS DCL Dictionary?   Hi Rudy, it actually isn't that hard.  If you have a list of the ASCII to decimal, octol or hexidecimal representations, it is a snap.  t For example, the bell (BL) is 7 (the same for all three bases).  To create a DCL symbol for the ASCII BL, you would:   $  bl[0,8] = 7  j If you wanted carriage return (CR), that is decimal 13 with linefeed (LF), which is decimal 10, you would:   $   cr[0,8] = 13 or in hex you would use  $   cr[0,8] = %x0d   $   lf[0,8] = 10  ( and so on.  To use them, you could then:  i $   write sys$output "This is a noisy test ''bl' that will have ''cr'''lf' multiple lines with one write"    Have fun...    Barry        --  ? Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:57:25 -0700 1 From: Dave C. <DCantorNODCSPAM@shore.net.invalid> , Subject: Re: ASCII control characters in DCL9 Message-ID: <0cefcfc2.c8ae2904@usw-ex0110-076.remarq.com>   6 In article <s99bd098.058@SMTP.HMC.PSU.EDU>, Rudy Reyes <rreyes@psu.edu> wrote: 0 > I'm writing a com file, in its output file I'm > generating,  I need to =8 > include (embed) ASSCII control characters, such as CR, > STX, EOT, etc.- > In starting my test I used the "CR" lexical  > F$FAO("!/")   which is a =) > combination of CR+LF  (I need CR alone)    Here are a few definitions:   % $ bel == f$fao("!AD",1,f$fao("!7**"))  $ cr == f$fao("!1<!/!>") $ crlf == f$fao("!/")  $ lf == crlf - cr  $ ff == f$fao("!^")  $ tab == f$fao("!_")  7 > Q:  How do you embed ASCII control chars. in building  > a file in VMS/DCL?.   
 Like this:  ; $ string_with_tab_and_bell = "String''tab'with ''bel'bell." + $ write sys$output string_with_tab_and_bell   7 > Are there other lexical expressions not listed in the  > VMS DCL Dictionary?   9 Not that I'm aware of, but maybe other people would know.     + Here's an interesting command file for you:   	 $ i = 255  $loop:6 $ ascii'f$string(i)' == f$fao("!AD",1,f$fao("!#**",i)) $ i = i - 1  $ if i .ge. 0 then goto loop $ exit   Now you can define things like   $ ETX = ASCII3   Dave C.      * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful    ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2000 17:23:21 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman), Subject: Re: ASCII control characters in DCL5 Message-ID: <8nh729$kb$3@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>   O In article <s99bd098.058@SMTP.HMC.PSU.EDU>, Rudy Reyes <rreyes@psu.edu> writes: M :Q:  How do you embed ASCII control chars. in building a file in VMS/DCL?.  =   K   See the FAQ section "DECW9.  How do I set the title on a DECterm window?"   J :Are there other lexical expressions not listed in the VMS DCL Dictionary?  G   I'm aware of some undocumented itemcodes, but can't off-hand think of ?   any particularly useful undocumented DCL lexical functions...   J   I can suggest a pretty good book on DCL programming, but I'm biased. :-)  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:31:34 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) , Subject: Re: ASCII control characters in DCL0 Message-ID: <009EEBD7.ED0223DF@SendSpamHere.ORG>  O In article <s99bd098.058@SMTP.HMC.PSU.EDU>, Rudy Reyes <rreyes@psu.edu> writes: H >I'm writing a com file, in its output file I'm generating,  I need to =F >include (embed) ASSCII control characters, such as CR, STX, EOT, etc.J >In starting my test I used the "CR" lexical    F$FAO("!/")   which is a =+ >combination of CR+LF  (I need CR alone)=20 M >Q:  How do you embed ASCII control chars. in building a file in VMS/DCL?.  = J >Are there other lexical expressions not listed in the VMS DCL Dictionary? > / >Any help/suggestions will be much appreciated,  >  >Rudy Reyes  >  >rreyes@psu.edu  >  >   =20  >  >  >   
 CR[0,8]==%x0D 
 LF[0,8]==%x0A  BELL[0,8]==%x07   D One thing I like to do, especially if I know the control/<character>+ sequence, is to use the F$cvui() lexical...    CR[0,8]==F$cvui(0,5,"M") LF[0,8]==F$cvui(0,5,"J") BELL[0,8]==F$cvui(0,5,"G")   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 08:56:26 +0200 ) From: "Anders Olsson" <anders@lib.kth.se> @ Subject: Re: attachments lost when using set forward in VMS-mail& Message-ID: <8ng2md$3eo$1@news.kth.se>  	 Hi again! L As I really want to solve this I would like to show you wizards how it looksJ with an attachment. I just made a small word document containing two wordsE .I then sent the mail to myself and to an account with forward to me.  Here's how it looks: the first mail:   " X-Sender: anders@kthbib.lib.kth.se6 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58% Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 08:39:49 +0200 + To: anders@lib.kth.se, testpilot@lib.kth.se ' From: Anders Olsson <anders@lib.kth.se>  Subject: test 2  MIME-Version: 1.0 L Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_782270375==_"     Test 2, now with an attachment.       	  TEST.doc      The second:   % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 08:52:48 +0200  From: anders@lib.kth.se + To: anders@lib.kth.se, testpilot@lib.kth.se - Message-ID: <009EEBB0.FB6F25B6.22@lib.kth.se>  Subject: test 2     @ Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000817083811.00b0cbc0@kthbib.lib.kth.se>" X-Sender: anders@kthbib.lib.kth.se6 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58% Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 08:39:49 +0200 + To: anders@lib.kth.se, testpilot@lib.kth.se ' From: Anders Olsson <anders@lib.kth.se>  Subject: test 2  MIME-Version: 1.0 L Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_782270375==_"    $ --=====================_782270375==_; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowedp     Test 2, now with an attachment.r$ --=====================_782270375==_2 Content-Type: application/msword; name="TEST.doc";0  x-mac-type="42494E41"; x-mac-creator="4D535744"! Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64e4 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TEST.doc"    L 0M8R4KGxGuEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPgADAP7/CQAGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAIQAAAAAAAAAAL EAAAIwAAAAEAAAD+////AAAAACAAAAD/////////////////////////////////////////////L //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// and so on .. it ends with   AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA==& --=====================_782270375==_--  D I repeat that attachments are normally no problem, but they are when forwarding has been set.* Please tell if I need to supply more info. regardsm anders   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:09:18 +0200i= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>e@ Subject: Re: attachments lost when using set forward in VMS-mail) Message-ID: <399BABBE.59D024AD@gtech.com>i   Anders Olsson wrote:' > Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 08:52:48 +0200g > From: anders@lib.kth.sen- > To: anders@lib.kth.se, testpilot@lib.kth.sea/ > Message-ID: <009EEBB0.FB6F25B6.22@lib.kth.se>o > Subject: test 2g > B > Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000817083811.00b0cbc0@kthbib.lib.kth.se>$ > X-Sender: anders@kthbib.lib.kth.se8 > X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58' > Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 08:39:49 +0200 - > To: anders@lib.kth.se, testpilot@lib.kth.set) > From: Anders Olsson <anders@lib.kth.se>e > Subject: test 2  > MIME-Version: 1.0WN > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_782270375==_" > & > --=====================_782270375==_= > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowedo > ! > Test 2, now with an attachment.e& > --=====================_782270375==_4 > Content-Type: application/msword; name="TEST.doc";2 >  x-mac-type="42494E41"; x-mac-creator="4D535744"# > Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64(6 > Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TEST.doc"  C If I interpret the above correct, then the forward are indeed broke A as it neither keeps the original multipart MIME headers or treatsnG the the original email as a new attachment. It does not supply any MIMEa? headers at all, so the mail cleint are correct interpreting alln" the forwarded stuff as plain text.  D I would contact the MX people and hear if not they can improve this.   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2000 10:57:30 GMT' From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb)c@ Subject: Re: attachments lost when using set forward in VMS-mail0 Message-ID: <8nggeq$c2g$2@aquila.news.mdx.ac.uk>  i In article <399BABBE.59D024AD@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:a >Anders Olsson wrote: ( >> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 08:52:48 +0200 >> From: anders@lib.kth.se. >> To: anders@lib.kth.se, testpilot@lib.kth.se0 >> Message-ID: <009EEBB0.FB6F25B6.22@lib.kth.se> >> Subject: test 2 >>  C >> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000817083811.00b0cbc0@kthbib.lib.kth.se>s% >> X-Sender: anders@kthbib.lib.kth.seo9 >> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58-( >> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 08:39:49 +0200. >> To: anders@lib.kth.se, testpilot@lib.kth.se* >> From: Anders Olsson <anders@lib.kth.se> >> Subject: test 2 >> MIME-Version: 1.0O >> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_782270375==_"i >> e' >> --=====================_782270375==_a> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >>  " >> Test 2, now with an attachment.' >> --=====================_782270375==_l5 >> Content-Type: application/msword; name="TEST.doc"; 3 >>  x-mac-type="42494E41"; x-mac-creator="4D535744"e$ >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base647 >> Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="TEST.doc"s > D >If I interpret the above correct, then the forward are indeed brokeB >as it neither keeps the original multipart MIME headers or treatsH >the the original email as a new attachment. It does not supply any MIME@ >headers at all, so the mail cleint are correct interpreting all# >the forwarded stuff as plain text.n >eE >I would contact the MX people and hear if not they can improve this.s >y >Arnel  I Just a comment. I haven't been following this closely so I may be totally & wrong but how is the forwarding setup.  ! Is the forwarding set to use MX ?w   ie  $ is the forward set to mx%"user@node"  ? If it isn't going through mx then you might get these symptoms.     
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:27:45 +0200g= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>e@ Subject: Re: attachments lost when using set forward in VMS-mail) Message-ID: <399BDA40.B14CAA25@gtech.com>g   "D.Webb" wrote:hK > Just a comment. I haven't been following this closely so I may be totally_( > wrong but how is the forwarding setup. > # > Is the forwarding set to use MX ?n  ! The original post stated MX 5.1 !a   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2000 14:01:45 GMT' From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb) @ Subject: Re: attachments lost when using set forward in VMS-mail0 Message-ID: <8ngr89$dmd$1@aquila.news.mdx.ac.uk>  i In article <399BDA40.B14CAA25@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:: >"D.Webb" wrote:L >> Just a comment. I haven't been following this closely so I may be totally) >> wrong but how is the forwarding setup.s >> n$ >> Is the forwarding set to use MX ? >-" >The original post stated MX 5.1 ! >0 >Arne0  I I have never used MX. However I would expect that a forwarding would only  pass through MX if n  - 1) The forwarding explicitly stated to use MXi   ie  ' MAIL> SET FORWARD MX%"user@node.domain"l   or  2 2) The logical MAIL$INTERNET_TRANSPORT  set to MX%   and the forwarding set asd  " MAIL> SET FORWARD user@node.domain  O (requiring a dot in the the part of the address after the @ sign for this to be M interpreted as something to pass through the "Internet Transport" rather than = through DECNET unless the MAIL$INTERNET_MODE is set to SMTP).t    L In perusing the messages I hadn't noticed any explicit statement that it hadB been checked that the mail was indeed being forwarded through MX. H It would be an easy misconfiguration for the mail to be delivered to the5 account by MX but then forwarded on without using MX.   F If it was stated that this was checked and I missed it then sorry for  wasting everybody's time.       
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:25:47 +0200o= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>w@ Subject: Re: attachments lost when using set forward in VMS-mail) Message-ID: <399BF5EB.F81BB43C@gtech.com>    "D.Webb" wrote:eK > I have never used MX. However I would expect that a forwarding would only  > pass through MX if > / > 1) The forwarding explicitly stated to use MX1 >  > ie > ) > MAIL> SET FORWARD MX%"user@node.domain"= >  > or > 4 > 2) The logical MAIL$INTERNET_TRANSPORT  set to MX% >  > and the forwarding set as  > $ > MAIL> SET FORWARD user@node.domain > Q > (requiring a dot in the the part of the address after the @ sign for this to becO > interpreted as something to pass through the "Internet Transport" rather thanh? > through DECNET unless the MAIL$INTERNET_MODE is set to SMTP).a > N > In perusing the messages I hadn't noticed any explicit statement that it hadC > been checked that the mail was indeed being forwarded through MX.rJ > It would be an easy misconfiguration for the mail to be delivered to the7 > account by MX but then forwarded on without using MX.- > G > If it was stated that this was checked and I missed it then sorry forn > wasting everybody's time.u  0 Suggestions and input never waste anybodys time.  F I assume that one of theese are being used, since the forwarded email:  & #Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 08:52:48 +0200 #From: anders@lib.kth.se, #To: anders@lib.kth.se, testpilot@lib.kth.se. #Message-ID: <009EEBB0.FB6F25B6.22@lib.kth.se> #Subject: test 2  4 is obviously an SMTP mail and it is rather unusal to/ have 2 SMTP packages active on the same system.a   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:17:29 GMTo2 From: browlands@nospam.dera.gov.uk (Ben Rowlandsq)3 Subject: bizarre disappearing mouse pointer problemd$ Message-ID: <399bc861.13421629@news>  > One of the many problems with our OpenVMS machine here is that? sometimes, on boot up, the mouse is invisible. It seems to work-* perfectly, except you can't see the thing.  E What's strangest about it, is that it only happens sometimes (about aaD quarter of the time). In the time between turning the machine on andC discovering that the mouse isn't there, I only press two buttons onn= the keyboard (<b>, <enter>) so there isn't that much room foreB variation. The only thing that can really change, is if I move theE mouse during a critical period during the boot, which could force theuF system to load extra mouse files (or not). However, it has failed whenD I haven't touched the mouse, and also when I've moved it like crazy, so it isn't obviously that.m  F It isn't that big a problem, because I can login, shutdown and reboot,C but it's annoying all the same, cos the whole process takes about 5RF mins. I'm scared that it is just some kind of general instability thatF could jeopardise the hundreds of batch simulations that I'm running on it.s  @ Any ideas? (I know very little about the setup, installation and maintenance of VMS systems)o   Thanks in advancei   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 12:28:05 GMTi= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-).7 Subject: Re: bizarre disappearing mouse pointer problemr0 Message-ID: <009EEBAD.876B7032@SendSpamHere.ORG>  Y In article <399bc861.13421629@news>, browlands@nospam.dera.gov.uk (Ben Rowlandsq) writes:m? >One of the many problems with our OpenVMS machine here is that9@ >sometimes, on boot up, the mouse is invisible. It seems to work+ >perfectly, except you can't see the thing.e > F >What's strangest about it, is that it only happens sometimes (about aE >quarter of the time). In the time between turning the machine on andsD >discovering that the mouse isn't there, I only press two buttons on> >the keyboard (<b>, <enter>) so there isn't that much room forC >variation. The only thing that can really change, is if I move the F >mouse during a critical period during the boot, which could force theG >system to load extra mouse files (or not). However, it has failed whenrE >I haven't touched the mouse, and also when I've moved it like crazy,o >so it isn't obviously that. >:G >It isn't that big a problem, because I can login, shutdown and reboot,'D >but it's annoying all the same, cos the whole process takes about 5G >mins. I'm scared that it is just some kind of general instability that G >could jeopardise the hundreds of batch simulations that I'm running on- >it. >-A >Any ideas? (I know very little about the setup, installation anda >maintenance of VMS systems) >i >Thanks in advance  F I too have experienced this.  You need to reinit the box.  The >>>initE command seems to correct this.  I would like to have my boxes performyF the equivalent of the >>>init whenever they reboot but I have not madeF much progress.  BTW, I want to >>>init to get the machine in a *known*F state when I'm doing driver/execlet development; not so much as I haveF persistent mouse problems.  In fact, I can only ever recall losing theF mouse pointer once.  (Touching wood)  Now watch, it'll probably happen with the next boot! ;)   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM"   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2000 15:34:29 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)7 Subject: Re: bizarre disappearing mouse pointer probleml6 Message-ID: <8nh0m5$t3p$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  Y In article <399bc861.13421629@news>, browlands@nospam.dera.gov.uk (Ben Rowlandsq) writes:t? :One of the many problems with our OpenVMS machine here is that @ :sometimes, on boot up, the mouse is invisible. It seems to work+ :perfectly, except you can't see the thing.) ..F :What's strangest about it, is that it only happens sometimes (about a :quarter of the time).  I   This is probably a bug that was fixed.  Get to V7.1-2 or V7.2-1, get touJ   a reasonably recent version of DECwindows, apply the current DECwindows L   ECO for that version, apply the UPDATE and GRAPHICS kits, apply the other K   mandatory kits, and this problem should no longer occur -- this looks to :L   be a known problem that was fixed a while back, but I don't off-hand know ;   which specific ECO or update was the one that fixed it...y  A :Any ideas? (I know very little about the setup, installation and  :maintenance of VMS systems)  H   I'll ask that the discussion over in the Ask The Wizard (ATW) area be I   canceled, per the ATW rules...  Please don't cross-post questions here V   and there, thanks!  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:04:33 GMT-2 From: browlands@nospam.dera.gov.uk (Ben Rowlandsq)7 Subject: Re: bizarre disappearing mouse pointer problemr$ Message-ID: <399c0cb5.30913941@news>   >-J >  This is probably a bug that was fixed.  Get to V7.1-2 or V7.2-1, get toK >  a reasonably recent version of DECwindows, apply the current DECwindows lM >  ECO for that version, apply the UPDATE and GRAPHICS kits, apply the other cL >  mandatory kits, and this problem should no longer occur -- this looks to M >  be a known problem that was fixed a while back, but I don't off-hand know (< >  which specific ECO or update was the one that fixed it...  ( No record of it on Compaqs openvms site.  I >  I'll ask that the discussion over in the Ask The Wizard (ATW) area be  J >  canceled, per the ATW rules...  Please don't cross-post questions here  >  and there, thanks!x >l  ; I waited for a reply but didn't get one, so I posted here. l   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2000 17:39:10 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)7 Subject: Re: bizarre disappearing mouse pointer probleme5 Message-ID: <8nh7vu$u8$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>e  Y In article <399c0cb5.30913941@news>, browlands@nospam.dera.gov.uk (Ben Rowlandsq) writes:J :  :>K :>  This is probably a bug that was fixed.  Get to V7.1-2 or V7.2-1, get to0L :>  a reasonably recent version of DECwindows, apply the current DECwindows N :>  ECO for that version, apply the UPDATE and GRAPHICS kits, apply the other M :>  mandatory kits, and this problem should no longer occur -- this looks to mN :>  be a known problem that was fixed a while back, but I don't off-hand know = :>  which specific ECO or update was the one that fixed it...d : ) :No record of it on Compaqs openvms site.I  F   Ok, I'll be a little more direct.  I saw this problem myself, I thenG   upgraded and ECOd the configuration, and I saw the problem was fixed. G   As I applied a whole lot of stuff together (while rolling the OpenVMS H   Alpha configuration forward), I don't know specifically what fixed it.  A   Specific ECOs mentioning cursor-related fixes are mentioned in:.     VMS721_UPDATE-V0100r     ALPMOTF03_U401     ALPMOTF08_U30122 2  3E   Without specific details on the configuration (DECwindows, graphics C   controller, ECO level, etc), a specific answer is very difficult.k  J :>  I'll ask that the discussion over in the Ask The Wizard (ATW) area be K :>  canceled, per the ATW rules...  Please don't cross-post questions here 8 :>  and there, thanks! :h< :I waited for a reply but didn't get one, so I posted here.   K   Any reply to a question that was posed at the ATW site will generally be  M   in a couple of weeks (and posted out via the website), if at all.  I don't eN   immediately know if an automated reply mechanism -- indicating the question L   was received -- is going to be made available.  (For various reasons, ATW L   is not and cannot be a substitute for a service contract and the folks at G   the Compaq Customer Support Center, and its also not a substitute foryF   the discussions here in the newsgroup -- far more information can beG   elicited for the questions posed here or via the CSC, if required...)o  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2000 07:04:18 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)n" Subject: Re: Caching RMS Block I/O5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-dLiXS27wHxZx@localhost>=  F On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 19:09:24, djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)  wrote:  = > > We have a VAX FORTRAN application that is using RMS Block ? > > I/O to process some data. I haven't seen the source, but as12 > > far as I can tell it does something like this: > > 
 > >   Loop@ > >     Read some data from one of a set of files in DISK1:[DIR]" > >     Do some minimal processing> > >     Write the data to one of a set of files in DISK2:[DIR]
 > >   Endloop0 ..  F Hm overlooked the full implications of 'RMS' last time around. Mainly E 'cos I fell into the trap of thinking of what I would do or how I do cF 'Block' processing in Fortran. I.e. Unformatted fixed length read and F writes into a structure I can define as necessary (or even unformattedF segmented file for that matter). I seem to remember thinking RMS $READA and $WRITE saved overhead years ago. Now, in the light of recent s discussions, I'm not so sure.   D My mistake only became clear when you mentioned you can't COPY 'em. @ Pity you can't modify the program. It might save a lot of money.   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 09:42:13 -0400 ; From: "Everhart, Glenn (FUSA)" <GlennEverhart@FirstUSA.com>_" Subject: RE: Caching RMS Block I/ON Message-ID: <4B279CF3578CD211B945009027178017046CFDF1@swilnts809.wil.fusa.com>  8 There was also a free caching package done some time ago5 on Vax that was on an old sigtape. I'm sorry I forgett7 now who did it. It was not cluster aware so can only bei5 used on local disks (works with mscp served ones too)t; but it does work and is free. Might have been Jon Pinkley'so1 work. I vaguely remember cddriver??? as one name?i    ; Since source is there, there might be a way to do readaheadx also.    -----Original Message-----2 From: Phil Tregoning [mailto:ptregoni@esoc.esa.de]( Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 7:10 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma" Subject: Re: Caching RMS Block I/O     [Reordered post]  5 Rob Young <young_r@eisner.decus.org> wrote in articleg" <qzUI72SR+ybC@eisner.decus.org>... >a6 > In article <8nbrmc$5r3$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes:hG > > If write-caching is indeed acceptable on the output side (though it8 shouldG > > be battery-backed cache or cache protected by a reliable UPS, sincee ODS-2sE > > depends upon the ordering of disk writes for the integrity of its>	 meta-data:J > > structures and lost updates there could be catastrophic), you might be ableK > > to enable disk-level read-ahead caching (an option on both SCSI and IDEDI > > drives that VMS may have a means to address) to cover the input side.i  C Write caching may be acceptable (with battery backup) on the output2D side if nothing better can be found. I can probably arrange for this? to write to a separate disk with nothing else on it. In case of== failure I can restore from backup and redo the last few runs.i  I > > The eXtended File Cache features planned for VMS V7.3 might also help= the=J > > input side (I don't know the degree to which they recognize sequentialJ > > access patterns and react to them).  IIRC XFC is either in or close to agJ > > beta test (which might mean you could get your hands on it).  For thatJ > > matter, check out the existing VIOC facilities (something someone saidB > > recently suggested that they may support a form of transparent large-block 2 > > access that might help, at least for reading).  ? In my experience VIOC only caches data actually read - it won'te< do read-ahead caching. When you say "transparent large-block; access" do you mean the VIOC can be made to do read-ahead ?   @ XFC does sound like it might do the trick. We have a fair amount= of time to sort this out, so perhaps could wait for V7.3, butd XFC is Alpha only according to  2 http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvms/os/sdk.html  = There is, unfortunately, no chance of porting the application  to Alpha :(t  I > > You didn't specify whether the output-side files were being initiallyaI > > populated or updated in place.  If the former, experimenting with the<K > > various forms of default extension quantity control could prove useful.d > >   = That may make some difference, but the overriding performanceo; problem is the small size of the I/Os with all the overhead A that involves. As an example of the kind of thing the application 9 does, take a look the example "B-10: Use of Block I/O" int; _OpenVMS_Record_Management_Services_Reference_Manual_. Witha; that example, copying a 7000 block file with 2 block record(? buffers takes me about 30 seconds, with 20 block record buffers  it takes about 4 seconds.8  / > 	To add to what Bill is saying (getting in onA: > 	this late), you may also want to use HSG80 controllers. >j: > 	Why HSG80 controllers?  Because they support sequential= > 	read-ahead caching.  Couple that with write behind caching> > 	and you can't hardly lose.   > I guess any read-ahead controller would fix the problem, but I? can't see us getting a fibre channel controller when a SCSI oneo> would do. The reason I mentioned the HSZ50 is that we have one> laying around that we could use. But it doesn't do read-ahead, only write-behind.   [SNIP]  = > 	Bit over the top above.. but the point is Volume Shadowinge; > 	gives you a measure of reliability and by being a mirrors; > 	copy, improves read performance.  How backed up are yourr@ > 	disks you are reading and writing to?  $ MONI DISK/ITEM=QUEUE  : The average queue length is about .5. The application does; a synchronous read on one disk, then a synchronous write onp= the other. The shadow read performance improvement is becausea; the average rotational latency drops from half a revolutione= to a third (the other way round for writes). I am looking fori8 ways to remove the latency (and seek time) completely by somehow getting I/Os combined.  ; One or two people also mentioned RMS buffering, but that is : record based and doesn't work for block I/O. These are not7 RMS files (for example, the files can't be copied, only-9 backed-up as a copy fails with "RMS-F-IRC, illegal record  encountered").  $ The options at the moment look like:  3 1) Get a write-behind / read-ahead disk controller:r      o HSZ70 or HSZ80g       L http://www.compaq.com/products/storageworks/Array-and-SCSI-Controllers/hsz80
 index.html  
    o HSG80  4      http://www.digital.com/info/SP7047/SP7047HM.HTM  B 2) Get a third party caching product. Three suggestions were made,A    but none of the web sites explicitly mention read-ahead cache.$B    I guess none of them will offer write-behind, as that is fairlyB    dangerous without some kind of hardware battery backup. So this?    option still requires a disk controller to cache the writes,e0    but we already have a HSZ50 that can do that.  <    Caching software will also (hopefully) keep the Interrupt9    processing down by issuing fewer I/Os. Hardware cachesI;    won't do that as the same number of I/Os get issued, bute)    they do get satisfied from the cache. e      o RAXCO's PerfectCache   A      http://www.raxco.com/products/performancesuite/more_info.cfmn  &    o R&D Performance Group's Disk Xcel  ?      According to Marty Kuhrt it may be possible to get this tot      do read-ahead.a  1      http://www.rdperf.com/RDDOC/DXL_SPD_V50.HTMLe  %    o Executive Software's I/O Expressn  ?      http://www.execsoft-europe.com/products/openvms/io4vms.htmu  F I'll get in contact with these companies for some further information.   Phil T   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:27:53 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>" Subject: Re: Caching RMS Block I/O- Message-ID: <399B69C9.8C18E98E@tsoft-inc.com>-   Phil Tregoning wrote:- > ? > That may make some difference, but the overriding performance.= > problem is the small size of the I/Os with all the overheadnC > that involves. As an example of the kind of thing the application ; > does, take a look the example "B-10: Use of Block I/O" in = > _OpenVMS_Record_Management_Services_Reference_Manual_. Withe= > that example, copying a 7000 block file with 2 block record A > buffers takes me about 30 seconds, with 20 block record bufferst > it takes about 4 seconds.a  I Your original post did say that any modifications of the code were not ans option.  I'd ask why?,  O As for block I/O, RMS is neither the only method for doing this, nor the best. aO I'm not going to suggest details without knowing more about the application.  IcF will state that block I/O, with locking if required, is pretty easy toP implement.  Some routines to do the I/O could include the read ahead you seem toH feel would help, and writing could be asynchroneous, ie; issue the writeO request, and continue processing while the I/O system does your write for you. lM (This does require some type of recovery, should the write I/O fail, but this O wouldn't be any different than a caching system failing to perform the write ton disk.)  = > One or two people also mentioned RMS buffering, but that isi< > record based and doesn't work for block I/O. These are not9 > RMS files (for example, the files can't be copied, only:; > backed-up as a copy fails with "RMS-F-IRC, illegal recorde > encountered").  M Ah, but if large I/O buffers were used, then some of your read-ahead could be0F already in the buffer.  I believe you did mention reading 2 blocks forK processing.  A buffer of 16 blocks would provide you with up to 8 sets of 2rN blocks in one read, if the data you are processing is sequential, (and if it's! not, read-ahead cannot help you).t  M I am puzzled with the copy problem.  Copy can move any file on VMS.  The onlynH way I would understand is if your files are created with attributes thatP indicate the file should be copied as records, and a block I/O file, at least on$ VMS, is defined somewhat as follows:  1 FISREO.DAS;1                  File ID:  (684,9,0)y1 Size:          620/620        Owner:    [REVENUE]m" Created:    3-AUG-2000 15:03:04.07& Revised:   11-AUG-2000 12:48:13.12 (5) Expires:   <None specified>o Backup:    <No backup recorded>e Effective: <None specified>u Recording: <None specified>i File organization:  Sequential Shelved state:      Online  Caching attribute:  WritethroughF File attributes:    Allocation: 620, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 09                     No version limit, Contiguous best trys1 Record format:      Fixed length 512 byte recordso Record attributes:  None RMS attributes:     None Journaling enabled: None= File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World:  Access Cntrl List:  None Client attributes:  None  L Some of the key attributes for a block I/O file include the organization and record format.  O If you can consider any modifications, I have a product that provides block I/OhN with user specified buffers and uses the DLM.  Read ahead and write behind areJ not currently implemented, but anything is possible.  The key point is theM applications would have to use the product exclusively for all the block I/O.r  K However, if you can get a file caching product that will provide sufficientaL improvement, that's probably going to be your cheapest and easiest solution.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:21:25 -0400b( From: Ed Vogel <edward.vogel@compaq.com>  Subject: Re: CC/include question* Message-ID: <399BF4E5.3908EBB7@compaq.com>   >t  
     David,  I     The compiler is working as expected.  This is all documented sectionseE     5.2.1 and 5.2.2 of the Compaq C User's Guide for OpenVMS Systems.o  F     I expect you may be able to get the behavior you want by not using;     /INCLUDE, but rather the proper setting of the logicalsr.     DECC$SYSTEM_INCLUDE and DECC$USER_INCLUDE.  E                                                              Ed VogelpQ                                                              Compaq C Engineeringo   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Aug 2000 14:43:08 -05001 From: kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)s Subject: Re: CETS2000.+ Message-ID: <TM06LMR9uDW+@eisner.decus.org>h  s In article <U2mk5.18702$NH2.152071@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:A0 > <Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU> wrote in message >>K >>         There's been  a  lot  of  discussion  about  CETS  2000  and the-K >>     organizational  "short-comings" over on comp.org.decus.  Much of  itnK >>     has to do with the registration process.  I too was  confused  about-K >>     the Sunday-Monday seminars versus the good 'ol Saturday-Sunday DECUSp >>     version.e > 3 > This was to accommodate a religious High Holiday.n  B Thanks for that. But it still leaves me travelling on the holiday.  < >> In  addition, I was highly annoyed that I was expected toK >>     indicate which Sunday and/or Monday seminar  I wanted to sign up for + >>     before I'd even seen a list of them!  > / > Yeah, I can see where that might be annoying!a  I The packet I got in the mail prior to the registration did have a list ofeJ seminars. I haven't figured out what these new "interactive workshops" areI yet. Is this like the Data Center seminars or DFWlug seminars that were io Providence?   M > See you at the Open Board Meeting... I'll be one of folks wearing a target!c  H Fortunately for all, the fun stuff I've got isn't allowed on commerrcial airliners...  = But I'll be glad to place your CAT in geosynchronous orbit...h   	Bob Kaplow	  E SPAM:	spamrecycle@ChooseYourmail.com	uce@ftc.gov	postmaster@127.0.0.1@   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 12:52:44 GMTo From: jgessling@yahoo.comg4 Subject: Re: Cluster transaction processing paradigm) Message-ID: <8ngn6l$lja$1@nnrp1.deja.com>s   <snip>C > Are there any technologies which do this type of stuff (or papersg that discuss
 > this) ? ? ?- >r> You might want to take a look at BEA's tuxedo product.  It canB do many of the things you are thinking about and is well supportedG on VMS and interoperates well with lots of other platforms. I even knowp; of a large E business using it in just such an environment.o   Jiml    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.>   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 09:31:46 -0400d+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>l4 Subject: RE: Cluster transaction processing paradigmJ Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D80528468D@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com>  J As a followon to James suggestions, numerous banks and stock exchanges useA RTR as it does provide mission critical, ultra-high availability,xI multi-platform (including AIX, Sun, HP-UX as well as Compaq platforms) TP. processing.U   A few pointers:LE http://www.compaq.com/products/software/ntenterprise/rtr/ (home page) L http://www.compaq.com/products/software/ntenterprise/rtr/library.html (white papers, literature ect)iL http://www.compaq.com/products/software/ntenterprise/rtr/2000conference.html+ (recent Conference info with presentations)lG http://www.compaq.com/products/software/ntenterprise/rtr/downloads.htmli (platforms, PC demo, misc)   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant,
 Compaq Canadaw Professional Servicese Voice : 613-592-4660 FAX   : 819-772-7036 Email : kerry.main@compaq.come       -----Original Message-----8 From: James.F.Duff@fhs.com [mailto:James.F.Duff@fhs.com]( Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 7:33 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comv4 Subject: Re: Cluster transaction processing paradigm           JF Mezei writes: >[snip]l >aF >Question: what technologies exist right now that would allow multipleG >processes (one per node) to advertise themselves as being available to  receivec; >transactions from any process on any node of the cluster ?.  D Reliable Transaction Router, a layered product available from the Q.K IIRC, you can set it up so multiple nodes in a network (not just a cluster)lG can handle transactions.  Really good for mirrored transaction systems.0    I >If I have multiple server processes on multiple nodes on the cluster, isR therekH >some technology which allows these to talk to each other in a broadcastJ >fashion ? (eg: server 1 send a single message that is received by all theI >servers). And if a new server joins, then it too starts to receive thoseeJ >"broadcast" messages. (and ideally, when one leaves, all others receive a >message of it leaving).   Same answer.  G >Ideally, I'd like to have the multiple servers intelligently share the J >transactions. While one server has "reserved" some 30 transactions to oneG >remote partner, the other server reserves the next 30 transactions (to  someF >other or perhaps same partner) and so on. This way, the throughput isF >maximised, and if one node fails, then the servers on the other nodes	 continue.  >gK >However, how can one distribute transactions amongst those servers withoutrI >having a single server coordinate this (which represents single point ofE >failure if that node fail?  >rG >For instance, during slow period, if a single transaction is received,y whicheI >server will get to pick that one up and deliver it as fast as possible ?m >fG >Are there any technologies which do this type of stuff (or papers that- discuss- >this) ? ? ?  G Take a look at http://www.software.digital.com/rtr/htm_docs/grs-wp2.html  J This paper describes the way the Australian Stock Exchange did distributedH transaction handling.  Having worked there, I know it works particularly well.o  E The only drawback with RTR is it is quite an obscure product.  When ItE was working at the ASX for example, the only support for RTR was fromaI a European arm of Digital (can't remember off hand which country it was)!d   Regards, Jim. -- James.F.Duff@healthnet.com Pure personal opinione   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:47:32 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>4 Subject: Re: Cluster transaction processing paradigm- Message-ID: <399B6E64.9124BE7F@tsoft-inc.com>7   JF Mezei wrote:X > M > I am trying to think of an application architecture which would not only benO > cluster friendly (easy) but also make maximum use of clustering to distribute.? > processing and provide transparent operation if a node fails.l > ; > Transactions go into an indexed file in a random fashion.a  F Are transactions originating in the cluster, or posted to the cluster?  N > Transactions are extracted from the file in an ordered fashion and sent to aO > third party (by modem) in batches of say 30 transactions at a time (or less).aO > There are various third parties involved, so the reception of 30 transactionsaP > might mean one phone call if they are all destined to the same destination, or > multiple phone calls.   L The only possible failure point here is if the node that has gathered the 30O transactions fails before the transactions are sent.  Not insurmountable.  HaveoO 2 fields in the transaction, one a timestamp of when it was 'appropriated' by atO sending process, and a 'sent' flag.  When any 'sender' is scanning the file forrN transactions, any with an 'old' timestamp, and not flagged as sent, are up forK grabs.  'Old' would depend upon your parameters for assuming a 'sender' hastO failed.  You will also have to determine what to do if the 'sender' has sent 20 L of the 30 before it failed, unless it flags each transaction as it sends it.  ) > FEEDING TRANSACTIONS TO THE QUEUE-FILE:e > B > To feed the transactions into the queue file, I see 3 paradigms: > L > -client application itself opens the queue file and writes to it. However,I > this still requires that the client contact some server to get a unique  > transaction number.k  J Not a problem, a file has a sequence number, and with the DLM it's easy toO insure only one updater has the record at a time.  File must be on storage thato is not node dependant.  P > -client application uses ICC to contact a single server process on the clusterL > which provides the transaction number and it stores the transaction in theW > queue file. However, if the node on which that server runs fails, then you're cooked.l   Yep.  K > -client application submits to any number of servers on the cluster. EachiN > server then provides a unique transaction number (with its node name as part- > of it) and writes to the single queue file.    #1 sounds better to me.e  G > Question: what technologies exist right now that would allow multipleeP > processes (one per node) to advertise themselves as being available to receive< > transactions from any process on any node of the cluster ?  L DLM.  Any cluster wide messaging capability.  DECnet.  Sure there are plenty more.    > SERVER COORDINATION, > P > If I have multiple server processes on multiple nodes on the cluster, is thereI > some technology which allows these to talk to each other in a broadcasttK > fashion ? (eg: server 1 send a single message that is received by all therJ > servers). And if a new server joins, then it too starts to receive thoseK > "broadcast" messages. (and ideally, when one leaves, all others receive at > message of it leaving).f  8 Why?  DLM, but requires maybe some polling.  Again, why?  & > TRANSACTION CONSUMPTION/LOAD SHARING > H > Ideally, I'd like to have the multiple servers intelligently share theK > transactions. While one server has "reserved" some 30 transactions to onedM > remote partner, the other server reserves the next 30 transactions (to someiG > other or perhaps same partner) and so on. This way, the throughput isiQ > maximised, and if one node fails, then the servers on the other nodes continue.   M Why coordinate sharing?  Just have 'any' server process grab what it can, andpK process the transactions.  Some minimal load balancing will occur since the F services on idle nodes will get more time, and thus probably grab more
 transactions.r  L > However, how can one distribute transactions amongst those servers withoutJ > having a single server coordinate this (which represents single point of > failure if that node fail?  E I'd assume that they all grab what they can from the 'queue file' youpG mentioned.  So, coordination wouldn't really be required, and just adds-7 complexity.  Why do you feel the need for coordination?t  N > For instance, during slow period, if a single transaction is received, whichJ > server will get to pick that one up and deliver it as fast as possible ?  P Whichever server gets to run first, which on average will be on a node with more
 free time.  P > Are there any technologies which do this type of stuff (or papers that discuss
 > this) ? ? ?f  / Well, there's high priced consultants, like me.$   Dave   -- n4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:15:08 GMT % From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@dialupnet.com>s4 Subject: Re: Cluster transaction processing paradigm8 Message-ID: <rv6opskrm9mp6gip26n26so4gc603do9ja@4ax.com>  , On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 17:08:02 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:m   Building on my last note:      >P >SERVER COORDINATION >cO >If I have multiple server processes on multiple nodes on the cluster, is thereeH >some technology which allows these to talk to each other in a broadcastJ >fashion ? (eg: server 1 send a single message that is received by all theI >servers). And if a new server joins, then it too starts to receive thosemJ >"broadcast" messages. (and ideally, when one leaves, all others receive a >message of it leaving). >0  F Lock manager and server processes can be used to communicate data, andD notify if one dies.  I wrote an application to setup only one systemF in a cluster to receive OPCOM messages on the console.  As the systemsB boot they disable opcom and queue up for a lock.  The first systemC gets the lock and enables OPCOM messages, the others wait... if thecB first system crashes, the next system in line obtains the lock and" then enables opcom on its console.   >e >e% >TRANSACTION CONSUMPTION/LOAD SHARINGy > G >Ideally, I'd like to have the multiple servers intelligently share thedJ >transactions. While one server has "reserved" some 30 transactions to oneL >remote partner, the other server reserves the next 30 transactions (to someF >other or perhaps same partner) and so on. This way, the throughput isP >maximised, and if one node fails, then the servers on the other nodes continue.  B The batch method I discussed previously could be setup to do this.A Each remote partner can have its own generic batch queue, and theo? execution queue on its "home" node can have a larger job limit.i   >uK >However, how can one distribute transactions amongst those servers withoutiI >having a single server coordinate this (which represents single point ofo >failure if that node fail?I  A Server processes that communicate constantly are one method.  Thea  queue manager already does this.   > M >For instance, during slow period, if a single transaction is received, whichdJ >server will get to pick that one up and deliver it as fast as possible ?   @ Well, the batch mechanism won't be that smart for the batch jobsD themselves - it looks at the job limit only on the execution queues.C However, the DNS load balancing can be setup to let the initial webe2 connect go the the system with the highest rating.    1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqy- (get rid of the xxxx in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:08:36 GMTa% From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@dialupnet.com>t4 Subject: Re: Cluster transaction processing paradigm8 Message-ID: <nj6opsoqs1etn5d2t89i9rsg3jmv6ku4ig@4ax.com>   Heck,a  ? You could just setup the VMScluster with a web server (OSU, foraE example), and a load-balanced cluster alias for TCP/IP access.  UsersIC use a web browser, fill in the transaction information, and the cgi6A could SUBMIT the job to a generic batch queue that is assigned to F execution queues on each node in the cluster (using /RESTART in case aB system crashes in the middle).  Those execution queues can have anF execution limit of 1-N to allow multiple jobs execute on a system at a@ time (depending on number of CPUs).  As soon as the queue on oneF system drops below the job limit, the generic queue will send the next job to that execution queue.  @ If transaction numbers are important, the cgi can call to serverF processes to hand out transaction numbers, and store them into a file.F Then submit the batch job with that transaction number as a parameter.  F If this is a workable design for your situation, some benefits of this are:  < 1.	Transparently to the user, they can always access the web4 server and not know that it not always the same box.  ? 2.	Don't have to develop your own queue handling system - "It'sD	 in there"h  	 3.	Simple     1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqp- (get rid of the xxxx in my address to e-mail)u   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:31:49 GMT,? From: Jim.Johnson@software-exploration.nospam.com (Jim Johnson)n4 Subject: Re: Cluster transaction processing paradigm/ Message-ID: <399c1ce9.2987185@news.demon.co.uk>   C Other replies have suggested RTR.  That will certainly work, but if,F all your activity is intra-cluster, then it is definite overkill.  Use& what the connection manager gives you.  E The issues you're dealing with are much like those that DECdtm had to D deal with in its structure (especially around logging and recovery).F We came up with a fairly simple and robust design which has attributesD that I believe could be applied to your case.  I don't know how muchD to go into the details here -- it was written up a DTJ article years ago.  D Our first simplification was to say that TIDs only had to be unique.C There are no ordering or sourcing implications.  That allowed us tot< use UUIDs, which can be generated locally with no inter-node communication.  F Second, we ran a log server on every active node, with a different logF for each node.  That minimized cache coherency traffic (by eliminatingF it).  We used a locking system wherein all log servers were attemptingA to get exclusive access to each log (with different modes for the C 'primary' node, and 'informational' locks that advertised which log > server had an exclusive lock (this turned out to be faster and' somewhat more reliable than $GETLKI...)n  < This meant that each client could generate its own TIDs, andE efficiently work out which server should be contacted for a given log C file, and in case of log server failure/recovery there was a simpleuF and reliable locking protocol to work out when the log had been failedC over/failed back and where it now was.  This protocol can be easilyg= adjusted to support on-demand movement of log file ownership.s  D This gets you a shared nothing application data protocol on a sharedB everything device substrate, thus providing a high data throughput rate with minimal MTTR.e  D If you're interested in discussing this further, please feel free to! email me.  Just drop the .nospam.    Jim.  , On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 17:08:02 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:I  L >I am trying to think of an application architecture which would not only beN >cluster friendly (easy) but also make maximum use of clustering to distribute> >processing and provide transparent operation if a node fails. > : >Transactions go into an indexed file in a random fashion. > M >Transactions are extracted from the file in an ordered fashion and sent to a N >third party (by modem) in batches of say 30 transactions at a time (or less).N >There are various third parties involved, so the reception of 30 transactionsO >might mean one phone call if they are all destined to the same destination, or0 >multiple phone calls. >s( >FEEDING TRANSACTIONS TO THE QUEUE-FILE: >cA >To feed the transactions into the queue file, I see 3 paradigms:s >	K >-client application itself opens the queue file and writes to it. However, H >this still requires that the client contact some server to get a unique >transaction number. >oO >-client application uses ICC to contact a single server process on the clusterrK >which provides the transaction number and it stores the transaction in thesV >queue file. However, if the node on which that server runs fails, then you're cooked. >/J >-client application submits to any number of servers on the cluster. EachM >server then provides a unique transaction number (with its node name as partC, >of it) and writes to the single queue file. >DF >Question: what technologies exist right now that would allow multipleO >processes (one per node) to advertise themselves as being available to receive ; >transactions from any process on any node of the cluster ?t >l >o >SERVER COORDINATION >PO >If I have multiple server processes on multiple nodes on the cluster, is therewH >some technology which allows these to talk to each other in a broadcastJ >fashion ? (eg: server 1 send a single message that is received by all theI >servers). And if a new server joins, then it too starts to receive those0J >"broadcast" messages. (and ideally, when one leaves, all others receive a >message of it leaving). >t >e >i% >TRANSACTION CONSUMPTION/LOAD SHARINGd >,G >Ideally, I'd like to have the multiple servers intelligently share thefJ >transactions. While one server has "reserved" some 30 transactions to oneL >remote partner, the other server reserves the next 30 transactions (to someF >other or perhaps same partner) and so on. This way, the throughput isP >maximised, and if one node fails, then the servers on the other nodes continue. > K >However, how can one distribute transactions amongst those servers withoutrI >having a single server coordinate this (which represents single point oft >failure if that node fail?t > M >For instance, during slow period, if a single transaction is received, whichbJ >server will get to pick that one up and deliver it as fast as possible ?  >eO >Are there any technologies which do this type of stuff (or papers that discussi >this) ? ? ?   Jim Johnsond Software Exploration, Ltd.' Software Navigation and Discovery Toolsu   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:43:44 -0400s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n4 Subject: Re: Cluster transaction processing paradigm, Message-ID: <399C244C.B581AA72@videotron.ca>  E Thanks for the pointers from many on the Reliable Transaction Router.d  H Is this the same product that was developped for the VAXft which was theJ cornerstone of a single node (fault tolerant) distributing transactions to multiple (non FT) nodes ?W  L I find it interesting to read that it uses TCPIP as underlying protocol. Has2 that always been the case or is this just recent ?  K Unfortunatly, this package probably costs orders of magnitudes more than an K arm and a leg and is not transparent (you need to use its API), which meansnI that I could only target customers who already have that expensive "stockrN exchange/money is no order" customer (limiting potential customers to probably a dozen or so sites.  M I was really hoping that the VMS clustering would have provided some services L that would have made it possible for an application to easily coordinate itsD own instances across a cluster. (or be able to live in a single-node non-cluster environment.   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2000 17:50:17 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)3 Subject: Re: Commitment to DII COE, missing pieces?t, Message-ID: <8nh8kp$epp@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  k In article <8ncb7n$nmo$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:t >aK >In article <8n4goa$gel@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edue > (David Mathog) writes: >: At: >: aI >:   http://www.openvms.digital.com/solutions/publicsector/coe/index.htmlm >: eF >: there is a Powerpoint presentation and a FAQ concerning the DII COEK >: initiative.  After reading through the whole thing either I missed it orRL >: there was no no explicit mention of either soft links or shells (sh, csh,M >: tcsh, bash, etc.) being provided under DII COE.  Can somebody who actuallya! >: knows clarify this situation? n > G >  The inclusion of at least one command shell would likely be part of bG >  any product meeting the DII COE requirements.  I have not looked at  G >  the specific requirements, beyond expecting that something like the n. >  bourne shell would very likely be required. >h  / Well thanks, but that doesn't really help much.   H What I am trying to determine is if the DII COE project is being used byJ Compaq as a serious effort to make porting Unix software to OpenVMS, or ifK it is a "check off" requirement fulfilling a political need to keep OpenVMScG in the running for military contracts, but otherwise devoid of any realeH utility.   I'm also trying to determine if any of it is going to come toC pass in a timescale which would dissuade me from mothballing my VMS G machine.  (Which seems extremely unlikely at this point considering theoJ sluggish rate of change in OpenVMS and the currently miserable performance and high cost of the product.) l  @ The DII COE spec is all about Unix compatibility (if not SolarisJ compatibility).  So on paper at least it sounds like it should help ratherJ a lot with the situation that I deal with every day - less and less of theJ available software in the world can be made (without tremendous effort) toK run on OpenVMS.  And the most infuriating part of that is that now it isn't J just calls to Unix specific routines which have to be worked around (the CK RTL does a pretty good job in that respect these days),  but that the basic K build routines are impossible to use on OpenVMS.   The last N packages I'verI had to deal with have all used scripts to build their makefiles - scripts I which don't work on OpenVMS.  And within those makefiles there were more lG scripts activated. (None but the simplest scripts work inside GNV bash.oA That's because GNV is a long way from a complete Unix developmentcK environment and it doesn't take too many lines of unix sh script to stumbleu upon one of its limitations.)   F >  I am aware of some folks around the 'net that have been working on I >  bash on OpenVMS, and some of the resulting code may well be available t >  for download.  L OpenVMS is by far the most expensive commerical OS I have to deal with - andJ you're telling me that I should depend upon the kindness of strangers for K the a piece of software absolutely required for it to have any future here? K Heck, if I wanted to go that route I'd already have moved the users over torH a Linux system.  Not that that isn't likely to happen anyway in the veryL near future, since OpenVMS is simply untenable in academia (and most places N that aren't fortune 500 companies) and Compaq has yet to do anything about it.    M >:The now defunct POSIX subsystem (the Open in OpenVMS) did have "sh" but didaL >:not come has csh.  To the extent that it was "POSIX compatible" that wouldL >:seem to indicate that only "sh" is required by the standard.  But a lot ofM >:software from Unix requires csh as well - so conforming to just "Posix" maygL >:or may not provide all the tools that are required to port real software.  > H >  We've had requests around resurrecting the POSIX kit for use on more K >  recent OpenVMS Alpha releases, and I can pass specific (email) requests hH >  for this effort along to the relevent OpenVMS product manager, or theH >  requests can be made at LA CETS2000 or similar event -- I would tend J >  to expect that the relevent OpenVMS product managers will be attending  >  the CETS2000 event. >o  J But that's completely illogical - why bring POSIX back if the DII COE doesJ the very same thing?  Unless DII COE doesn't do the same thing - which wasI the question I asked in the first place.  (But then, it wasn't logical tomL retire POSIX in the first place with no replacement product ready to go, so  I don't know what to think.) e   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu(? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech     ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:53:32 +0200t= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>a' Subject: Re: Copy from VMS to NT servere) Message-ID: <399BA80C.207DFB3D@gtech.com>i   teroconnor@my-deja.com wrote:a  > > Recent VMS versions support: > > D > > $ COPY/NODE file ip-node"username password"::"path-and-filename" > >e > > example: > >rB > > $ COPY/FTP FOOBAR.DAT NTSRV"joe vmsuser":"C:\Store\Foobar.dat"  & > I have tried this but get an error - > 5 > copy /ftp t.t  oilcom"userxxx pwxxx"::"c:\t.t" /log , > %FTP-E-NETERR, I/O error on network device6 > -SYSTEM-F-REJECT, connect to network object rejected > 0 > Am I missing something on the NT server side ?  " Are the FTP server running on NT ?  ) Can you do a "manual" FTP to the NT box ?    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:23:22 -0400 - From: Charles DeGruchy <cdegruchy@isdweb.com>u9 Subject: DCPS PostScript printers bar codes SAP tech notei< Message-ID: <3.0.32.20000817112321.007017a4@mail.isdweb.com>   Jack0 We had a request for information from you via=20 Info-Vax@MVB.SAIC.Comn  + I have the SAP tech note ( below ) to prove  how great our product is.R  @ TattooPS can be down loaded from http://www.isdweb.com/download/ Please have the person enter=20 + " ChasD sent me" in one of the form fields.   . We do have a UNIX / VMS version, if we did not9 then SAP would never have evaluated it and sent this techA note ( see bottom last item ).    . We do ROI white papers to indentify payback on AIDC projects. =20   Thank You=20 Charles DeGruchy  6 >>>Results of the form submited on 8/16/00 10:30:03 AM" >>>They were downloading Tattoo PS9 >>>------------------------------------------------------s   >>>>>>> >> >Mr. DeGruchy,uE >>>>>>> >> >The SAP OSS note 108990 I created on Tattoo PS and SAP=20e >>>>>>> R/3 printing.u- >>>>>>> >> >I attach it here for you to read.cJ >>>>>>> >> >There is no formal verification process for software products=  like J >>>>>>> >> >Tattoo PS in SAP R/3 output management. If you are looking forD >>>>>>> >> >a formal certification by SAP, check out the CSP programE >>>>>>> >> >("complementary software product", get info on this at=20n >>>>>>> www.sap.com/csprC >>>>>>> >> >If you have a product that fits one of the certifiable=e  interfacese? >>>>>>> >> >in SAP R/3, contact the CSP group via the internet.n >>>>>>> >> >A >>>>>>> >> >The SAP OSS system is our worldwide online support=20  >>>>>>> system. All SAP R/3nI >>>>>>> >> >customers and our major consulting partners (Andersen, etc.)=.  haver >>>>>>> >> >access to OSS.J >>>>>>> >> >So if some R/3 customer has a PostScript-only printer and wantF >>>>>>> >> >to print barcodes from SAPscript, he would be able to find >>>>>>> >> >that OSS note. >>>>>>> >> >Regards, >>>>>>> >> >  Alexander Bollonir >>>>>>> >> >  SAP AG Walldorfi >>>>>>> >> >  basis developmentr >>>>>>> >> >, >>>>>>> >> >     Nummer              01089908 >>>>>>> >> >     Version             0004 vom 08.07.1998= >>>>>>> >> >     Status              F=FCr Kunden freigegeben D >>>>>>> >> >     Gesetzt von         Alexander Bolloni am 08.07.1998 >>>>>>> >> >' >>>>>>> >> >     Sprache             ENoH >>>>>>> >> >     Kurztext            Bar codes on PostScript printers=20 >>>>>>> with Tattoo PS >>>>>>> >> >6 >>>>>>> >> >     Verantwortlich      Alexander BolloniF >>>>>>> >> >     Komponente          BC-CCM-PRN-DVM Ger=E4teverwaltung >>>>>>> >> >F >>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>>>> __________ >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> >     Langtext  >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> >     SymptomC >>>>>>> >> >     This note explains the mode of operation of the=206 >>>>>>> "Tattoo PS" softwareC >>>>>>> >> >     (for Microsoft Windows 95 or NT) by the company=20b >>>>>>> "Integrated SoftwareD >>>>>>> >> >     Design, Inc." for printing bar codes on PostScript=
  printers.1 >>>>>>> >> >     Company address of the producer:o1 >>>>>>> >> >     Integrated Software Design, Inc.  >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> >     SolutiondF >>>>>>> >> >     Below is a short overview of the mode of operation=20 >>>>>>> of this program:G >>>>>>> >> >     After the PostScript printer is switched on, Tattoo=20s >>>>>>> PS must be startedG >>>>>>> >> >     on the Windows PC, and the PostScript software must=20j >>>>>>> be loaded into theG >>>>>>> >> >     printer. This initialization of the printer must be=20s >>>>>>> repeated each timeD >>>>>>> >> >     the printer was switched on or off. It cannot be=20 >>>>>>> carried out via R/3!H >>>>>>> >> >     From now on, you can determine bar codes via special=20 >>>>>>> command sequencesiH >>>>>>> >> >     in their attributes in every PostScript file sent to=20 >>>>>>> the printer. BarH >>>>>>> >> >     code data is also indicated with special characters.=20 >>>>>>> These special F >>>>>>> >> >     characters or command sequences are text which can=20 >>>>>>> be read normally.CC >>>>>>> >> >     Therefore, they can be output from SAPscript as=20- >>>>>>> "text". In this case it1H >>>>>>> >> >     is not necessary to use character formats with a bar=20 >>>>>>> code attribute inR >>>>>>> >> >     SAPscript.s >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> >     Example:8G >>>>>>> >> >     The following example defines as bar code type 128,=20a >>>>>>> character set  >>>>>>> B, barH >>>>>>> >> >     code height 36 point, no check digit, output text in=20 >>>>>>> readable form 
 >>>>>>> undereF >>>>>>> >> >     the bar code, bar code origin at the lower edge of=20 >>>>>>> the "character >>>>>>> cell":/ >>>>>>> >> >     |BCODE 128 SB V36 C0 T1 P2 L1|uH >>>>>>> >> >     This command can be entered in the SAPscript from as=20 >>>>>>> text. When >>>>>>> printingG >>>>>>> >> >     on the PostScript printer, Tattoo PS recognizes and=20i >>>>>>> interprets it as a >>>>>>> >> >     command.uI >>>>>>> >> >     The bar code itself is output via the following command:t >>>>>>> >> >     ~0123456789~aF >>>>>>> >> >     Thus, the sequence of numbers 0123456789 is output=20 >>>>>>> as a bar code in theG >>>>>>> >> >     format defined previously. The tilde characters (~)=20c >>>>>>> can also be enteredeF >>>>>>> >> >     as text in the SAPscript form. It is not necessary=20 >>>>>>> to use characterA >>>>>>> >> >     formats with bar code attribute (for example,=20o >>>>>>> <BC>0123456789</>)!  >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> >   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 01:01:01 -0400.* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>& Subject: Re: Detached process question- Message-ID: <399B718D.607DECF4@tsoft-inc.com>e   > Shraga Broyer wrote: > >g > > Hi.aJ > > I am trying to run a DCL script as a detached process using RUN/DETACH > > SYS$SYSTEM:LOGINOUT.EXE . G > > I noticed that I can only specify GROUP or SYSTEM-wide logical nameuC > > for the paths of the INPUT and OUTPUT files of the process (fort@ > > example JOB-wide assignments such as  /INPUT=SYS$LOGIN:<someE > > file>/OUTPUT=SYS$LOGIN:<some file>   won't work). I don't want totJ > > create any new system or group-wide logical names. Can someone suggest > > me a work around?   M It appears that you are trying to use a process local logical name as part of K the input and output file specifications, but want VMS to know the value oftK those logical(s) outside the context of your process.  Bad start.  One easyaK thing to do is to fully translate the logicals into the actual names of thenL devices/files/whatever, ie; something VMS will always be able to recognize.  Steve Hoffman covered this.i  N As for the process then having the same logicals as your process, it will needM to get them in the same manner you did, ie; SYLOGIN.COM, LOGIN.COM, any otherv sources.   Dave   -- l4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:34:43 -0400 # From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>v7 Subject: Re: DJE Systems DECUS Presentations on the Webe+ Message-ID: <399BF803.FEBC44B3@hsc.vcu.edu>o  # man, nice presentation... Good job!a   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Folks, > F > The word came the other day that I won't be speaking at CETS2000. OfI > course, that also means no Affordable BOF, unless someone else heads ito > up. *SIGH* > G > So, I've put my San Diego presentations on the web. You can find themh > via a link at this URL:n > ! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/#tipsn >  > The presentations are: > # > o Introduction to DCL Programmingo >   > o Intermediate DCL Programming > 1 > o Zip and Unzip for OpenVMS - Secrets Revealed!a > J > I cleaned up some of the errors we found during the presentations at SanJ > Diego. Please help me find the rest. Your notes and (polite) correctionsI > are welcome and invited. The presentations are available as HTML, .PDF,s > .PPT and .PS (uncompressed). > H > I may still make an OpenVMS Freeware CD-ROM available for sale (cheap,I > circa. $5 US) on the web. I've found an e-store site that I can use and F > I'm currently preparing The DJEstore for a debut sometime later this	 > season.  > I > Stay tuned. If I can find providers for the VMS trinkets that have beenND > requested in another thread, and/or if I can get permission to useJ > Compaq trademark symbols and such (OpenVMS "licensed" merchandise), I'll- > consider adding them to the store, as well.t >  > -- > David J. Dachterat > dba DJE Systemsi > http://www.djesys.com/ > < > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h > J > This *IS* comp.os.vms. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected. > B > Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression. > H > However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are > strongly discouraged.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 01:18:43 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>" Subject: Re: dose vms run on intel- Message-ID: <399B75B3.95FBB0C7@tsoft-inc.com>t   "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > K > OUCH, I just read up on their $490 full evaluation package.  For the low,oM > low price of $490 you can get a evaluation kit that includes the networkingsM > code turned on, and is limited to a 6 week period.  Since when do companiesi$ > have to pay to evaluate something! >   > GACK, I just found the prices:@ >         The CHARON-VAX MicroVAX emulator for Windows ~$5900.00@ >         CHARON-VAXstation Lite for Windows           ~$1900.00  P Looks like we found out where the 1985 to 1995 era marketing people at DEC endedL up.  I'm sure there are many uses for this product that I haven't thought ofK yet, but from my perspective, demos and such seem to be it.  Definitely noteL production.  If they charged the $490 for the package, they'd probably get aK decent number of sales.  Possibly enough quantity to far exceed any revenuecP they'll produce at those prices.  It's VMS being not competitive all over again.  N Yes, I understand that the software probably cost quite a bit to develope, andM the Charon folks are in it for profit.  I just don't think there will be muche profit at those prices.    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Aug 2000 10:49:41 -0500 From: briggs@eisner.decus.orgt Subject: Re: File Headersa+ Message-ID: <epAbanZcPF4N@eisner.decus.org>1  ^ In article <399AB61F.FE3E47F7@fsi.net.mapson>, SysAdmin <djesys.nospam@fsi.net.mapson> writes:H > The volume may have been INITIALIZEd with /HEADERS=xxxxx in which caseJ > the INDEXF.SYS file will have been pre-extended forstalling the onset ofE > maximum INDEXF.SYS fragmentation (INDEXF.SYS can only have a singlee
 > header). ... J > To make a long story short, predicting the onset of "index file full" is > rather a dicey proposition.e  . I'd like to expand just a bit on David's post.  H When you initialize a VMS disk, you specify two parameters of relevance. /HEADERS and /MAXIMUM_FILESk  I As above, /HEADERS controls the pre-allocated size of INDEXF.SYS.  You'resJ guaranteed to get at least this many files (actually file _headers) before running out.  E /MAXIMUM_FILES controls the size of the index file bitmap.  This is ahC statically allocated bit map which lives in the first few blocks of 8 INDEXF.SYS and indicates which file headers are free and> which are in use.  You can't have more file headers than this.  E As you create more and more files on a disk you'll eventually run outoF of the pre-allocated space (/HEADERS).  Not a problem.  INDEXF.SYS can be extended.  G The gotcha is that, as has been mentioned, INDEXF.SYS has only one filelK header to describe itself.  As INDEXF.SYS is extended, adding more and more F discontiguous extents, eventually its file header will run out of room to describe those extents.  4 	$ DUMP /HEAD disk:[000000]INDEXF.SYS /BLOCK=COUNT=0  C Look at the MAP OFFSET plus the MAP WORDS IN USE and compare to 256fH That should tell you how much space you've got left to handle extensions to INDEXF.SYS.  H You can also look at the MAP area to get a feel for how badly fragmented INDEXF.SYS is already.  H When INDEXF.SYS is extended, the size of each extension is critical.  IfG it gets extended by 50 blocks at a time, you'll exhaust its file headermE pretty quickly.  But if you tack on 20,000 blocks at a crack, you cans do a lot better.  C If I recall correctly, INDEXF.SYS is extended by 1000 blocks or thet5 volume default extend quantity, whichever is greater.n  D But if the volume is badly fragmented that extension may involve the+ addition of multiple discontiguous extents.i  J So one approach to dealing with a disk where you are worried about runningC out of files is to increase the volume default extend quantity, runtD a disk defragger (if possible) and then create enough files to forceC the file system to extend INDEXF.SYS.  Then you can restore the olds9 default extend quantity and delete those temporary files..   	John Briggs   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:32:56 +0100eB From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> Subject: Re: From VMS to NTa* Message-ID: <399BB147.B6464C7F@uk.sun.com>   pasmith@ppg.com wrote:  D > We are currently a VMS shop running ORACLE 7.3.4 on an alpha 2100.H > Support for this set up is rapidly getting scarce.  We are consideringH > switching to an NT box running ORACLE 8i.  We currently have about 150D > dumb terminals on the production floor, which run ORACLE forms forG > getting and displaying data.  These are connected to terminal serversoG > that can run TCP/IP.  Does anyone know of a way for dumb terminals tonH > communicate with NT?  Or does anyone know of an inexpensive GUI device: > that we can use as a replacement for our dumb terminals? >t  D NT does not support dumb terminals to my knowledge so you have a few choices.  ? 1.       Stay on OpenVMS and upgrade to Oracle 8i (8.1.5(6)) is 
 apparentlyG           available for OpenVMS. This will allow you to continue to uset your           existing terminals.eI 2.       Replace OpenVMS with Tru64 on the same box, upgrade to Oracle 8im  I           and retain your dumb terminals which will almost certainly works with           Tru64.I 3.       Replace your backend server with an NT box running Oracle 8i butm runtG           the Oracle clients on the OpenVMS box using SQL-NET to the NTeF           box. This may work though there are a few details that are a tiny bit@           hazy. You would then still retain your dumb terminals.I 4.       Replace your backend server with an NT box running Oracle 8i andi thenD           "invest" in 2-3 NT servers which will run Windows Terminal Server.eG           Buy 150 windows terminal clients (people like NCD sell them).  Youo:           will probably also need to upgrade your network.G 5.       Replace your existing backend with an NT box running Oracle 8id ando?           replace your existing dumb terminals with PC's, buy au fileserver and0           print server and upgrade your network.  F In terms of costs 1 would be the least expensive with 5 being the most	 expensive.H the difference between the two being analagous to the difference in cost betweenpA owning and running a JetSki and owning and running an F1 Offshorea	 powerboat"G which has been described as similar to tearing up 100 dollar notes in a" cold shower..  G You mention "production floor" which implies some sort of manufacturing"C facility. I hope its nice and clean if you are going to run Windows  TerminalH Server clients or PC's, your dumb terminals really are a good choice forA this kind of environment unless you need a more complex GUI basedT
 interface.   >a( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.-   -- Andrew Harrison, Enterprise IT Architect0   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:20:17 GMTi= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)8; Subject: Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CDf0 Message-ID: <009EEB9B.ACC0BC93@SendSpamHere.ORG>  K In article <399B5A13.A4FF1D80@vrx.net>, Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net> writes:R: >"Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515" wrote: >lK >>         Too expensive for  whom/what?   There  are  licensing  issues iniK >>     addition to (the minimum cost of) creating and distributing the CDs.rK >>     I'd  think  the cost barrier would aid keeping the listings  in  theeK >>     hands of "serious" people, as opposed to the kiddie  generation  who=K >>     doesn't  even  understand  basic copyright issues!  Certainly $2K isMK >>     not a barrier to anyone _needing_  the  listings in order to do code-G >>     development that requires internals knowlege _and_ the listings.  >e0 >hah! give me a break. $2k is way too expensive.O >I want to learn, to read and understand. I was even going to do a paper on it,r/ >but not with people with attitudes like yours!p >uK >>         Just because a hobbiest/high schooler  can't afford the listingsl0 >>     doesn't mean they should be given away... >,S >I'm in university you dope! I guess you don't remember what that's like. No money,nQ >and no way to get this stuff unless someone is very nice, even just a short-term  >loan. >c, ><begin SEVERE rant! --(no flames please)--> >3O >Seriously what we have here is a situation of the "haves" and the "have nots". O >What we have here is a bunch of people who paid some money (probably not their O >own, probably the company paid for it and it's not a personal expense), and we>K >have a bunch of very immature people saying "nyah nyah, we have the sourcelQ >listings and you don't". Or more seriously: "we have the listings, and you nevertS >will". The sort of uptight, snobbish, stuck up attitude that seems to infest a lotl@ >of the older-older school generation (that would be pre-gen-x).  J I paid for a license and for yearly updates, and I know of many folks thatJ have done the same.  Hell, and I've said this before, they're cheaper thanL my cable TV bill each month!  To quote you: "hah! give me a break."  Still, L if I want the programming (well, the kids do anyway), I have to pay because % the cable company surely won't budge!   R >Where it doesn't matter what someone wants or needs, it doesn't matter the reasonS >or cause, it'll never be given out, not because you can't give it out, not because-N >you can't lend it, just because you don't want to, it's yours and you have toS >protect your precious listings, even though you've probably got dozens of them. It  >doesn't matter. > S >It's an issue of control and inflated self-importance and inflated self-worth. YoutR >think you're better than others are. You enjoy seeing people suffer. Someone asksP >for a kind favor, and your response is "tough, forget it", when would it really= >hurt you in any way to help out? No, it certainly would not.>   Read for yourself:   http://www.tmesis.com/license/    S >I mean, just a loan for god-sakes. I'd even pay for courier charges to me and also>P >the return charges. I'd GIVE someone a fiche listing set, AND I'd be willing toS >PAY up to $200 US just to BORROW them for a short time. For god-sakes, what do yous >people want, blood ? jeez...> >>K >I thought these types of attitudes died a long time ago. I guess greed andeB >hypcrisy are still alive and well today as they have always been. >pP >But nobody cares, I'm not sure why I'm even surprised. I thought there was evenO >one kind-hearted soul here who would help, but you've all proven that kindness  >doesn't exist.   I I am aware (as is DECompaq) of digital's/Compaq's disregard for a blatant>J incorporation of VMS code from the source listings in a third-party's pro-I duct but I wouldn't go so far as to say "nobody cares".  There was a timerJ when the source listings on CD were given away as prizes during DECUS "VMSJ Magic" without strings attached.  Many of the people and the organizationsK that employ them fear the wrath of legal lamia belly-crawling beneath their J feet.  From my experiences with the aforementioned, this fear is unfoundedJ like the fear many have of flying...  Now, the fear of crashing -- that's  a real fear.   > D >Thank you for re-affirming my belief that the human race is doomed.   Come off it.     >  ><end rant>  >>S >I apologize for this but I can't take these attitudes any longer. If someone would0I >be kind enough to grant my request, I'd be more than eternally greatful.r  G If you get an OK in writing from DECompaq and furnish it to me, I'll be:H more than happy to forward you a copy (I think it's V7.1 Alpha).  Due toH some mix up, I received not one set but three!  In the meantime, the CDs will remain in my archives.   J BTW, if you really want to know how VMS works on the inside, please answerI me this.  Have you bothered to read the I&DS?  You will learn far more iniJ that book than you will from perusing the source listings.  I find the VMSH listings useful when analyzing an Alpha crash and for the interface cal-J ling conventions for some new "internal" functionality but, beyond that, II don't have the time to read them at leisure like I use to do.  In fact, aiI recent project found me stepping through an I/O from start to finish with>H XDELTA to figure out a problem and I studied the pertinent listings both day and night for over a week.  K If you really want to know and discuss some aspect of the internals of VMS,1J why not start a thread (or threads) over in VMSnet.internals.  There's aptJ to be some answers and the influx of some activity there would be welcome.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMc   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:43:48 GMTI! From: Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net>i; Subject: Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CDi' Message-ID: <399BEBFB.E5343E71@vrx.net>-  & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:  L > I paid for a license and for yearly updates, and I know of many folks thatL > have done the same.  Hell, and I've said this before, they're cheaper thanM > my cable TV bill each month!  To quote you: "hah! give me a break."  Still,oM > if I want the programming (well, the kids do anyway), I have to pay becauset' > the cable company surely won't budge!t  R They are cheaper than the cable bill but only if you're talking about the updates.0 $2k is about 10 years of cable here. ($20/month)L which makes me wonder if Compaq would do a payment plan (not bloody likely!)   > Read for yourself: >i  > http://www.tmesis.com/license/  6 Thanks for the link, not that you needed to do that :)  K > I am aware (as is DECompaq) of digital's/Compaq's disregard for a blatant.L > incorporation of VMS code from the source listings in a third-party's pro-K > duct but I wouldn't go so far as to say "nobody cares".  There was a time L > when the source listings on CD were given away as prizes during DECUS "VMSL > Magic" without strings attached.  Many of the people and the organizationsM > that employ them fear the wrath of legal lamia belly-crawling beneath theirPL > feet.  From my experiences with the aforementioned, this fear is unfoundedK > like the fear many have of flying...  Now, the fear of crashing -- that's  > a real fear.  O I suffer from vertigo, I have an inner-ear problem which is probably the cause.nR as for incorporation of the code from the source listings into third-party apps, IW would never do this, it's not my style and I just wouldn't. If someone wants a contract R to that effect, that's no problem. I'd write it in blood if need be, it's just notD something I'd ever do. I don't steal code from anyone or any source.  T Now, reading someone's code, and finding a better way to do it (completely rewrittenQ and not one line of code borrowed) that, yes, that I've done. taking old code anduT making it more efficient and finding similar ways to do things used to be what I didG for a living for a company I worked for. Before I was broke, I mean. :)    > Come off it.  & yeah, I was a bit pissed off... sorry.  I > If you get an OK in writing from DECompaq and furnish it to me, I'll be J > more than happy to forward you a copy (I think it's V7.1 Alpha).  Due toJ > some mix up, I received not one set but three!  In the meantime, the CDs > will remain in my archives.r  M Now you sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. Sorry, always wanted to say that.cT I will definitely work on this, in the meantime, I'm going to furnish you with PROOFK that I own what I say I do. I keep my word (unless my life goes to hell) :)o  L > BTW, if you really want to know how VMS works on the inside, please answerK > me this.  Have you bothered to read the I&DS?  You will learn far more inpL > that book than you will from perusing the source listings.  I find the VMSJ > listings useful when analyzing an Alpha crash and for the interface cal-L > ling conventions for some new "internal" functionality but, beyond that, IK > don't have the time to read them at leisure like I use to do.  In fact, asK > recent project found me stepping through an I/O from start to finish with0J > XDELTA to figure out a problem and I studied the pertinent listings both  > day and night for over a week.  T well since I don't know what the "I&DS" is, I haven't read it, don't know what it isW or where to find it. I haven't even looked at the fiche yet, still trying to figure out  HOW I'm going to do that!o  M > If you really want to know and discuss some aspect of the internals of VMS, L > why not start a thread (or threads) over in VMSnet.internals.  There's aptL > to be some answers and the influx of some activity there would be welcome.  Q I posted one or two once, no one ever responded. I think no one took me seriouslyaV because I'm a newbie at the source-code level, new to the kernel (can I call it that?)T and such. Oh, I did get one reply once about the I&DS I think, maybe that was you, I don't remember, it's been ages.   B Thanks for your posting, really appreciate the help and the offer. I'll keep you posted.n   B.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Aug 2000 09:30:40 -05003 From: rivie@server.newlogan.teraglobal (Roger Ivie)s; Subject: Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CDe> Message-ID: <slrn8pntqj.19t6.rivie@server.newlogan.teraglobal>  7 In article <399B5A13.A4FF1D80@vrx.net>, Beyonder wrote:IO >Seriously what we have here is a situation of the "haves" and the "have nots".tO >What we have here is a bunch of people who paid some money (probably not their-O >own, probably the company paid for it and it's not a personal expense), and werK >have a bunch of very immature people saying "nyah nyah, we have the source L >listings and you don't". Or more seriously: "we have the listings, and you M >never will". The sort of uptight, snobbish, stuck up attitude that seems to iM >infest a lot of the older-older school generation (that would be pre-gen-x).   7 I suppose it depends on the crowd you hang around with.n  N In my case, it was always easy to come by VMS source listings but Unix was theO great unknowable until things like NetBSD came around. I did a number of devicexO drivers for TURBOchannel devices under VMS, Ultrix, and OSF/1. Ultrix and OSF/1wH were frustrating because all I could get (when I could get anything) wasI example source code Handed Down From The Gods that no one understood but  H everyone copied because That's The Way Things Were. OSF/1 listings were P available, but the listings kit cost $20,000 _and_ you had to have the mythical K Western Electric Unix license. NetBSD 0.9 helped a lot, but I kept finding dL myself in places where it just plain was different than Ultrix. NetBSD also ? arrived a bit late to be helpful for most of my device drivers.   M On the other hand, most of my questions about Alpha/VMS 1.0 were answered by  M the VAX/VMS 3.0 fiche we had gotten with our VAX-11/730. Where Alpha/VMS 1.0 tM differed enough from the VAX/VMS 3.0 fiche to get me in trouble, VAX/VMS had  N already left the fiche behind (my primary difficulty was the terminal driver, M which got seriously overhauled sometime around V4; however, the V5 "Guide to 0O Writing Device Drivers" finally got around to documenting the class/port driverEF interface and between it and XDELTA I was able to solve the problems I was having).  M For me, the DEC proprietary OSes (I primarily worked with RT-11 and VMS) wereoI always more open and accessible than Unix. RT-11 shipped with source codetL because you needed it to SYSGEN a new system; although the comments had beenL stripped from the source, it wasn't hard to figure out what was going on andF re-comment the portions of the code you were interested in if you were sufficiently motivated.e -- 1
 Roger Ivie% TeraGlobal Communications Corporation & 1770 North Research Park Way Suite 100 Logan, UT 84341m mailto:rivie@teraglobal.coml phoneto:(435)787-0555t faxto:(435)787-0516t    > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!t> -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 15:00:23 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)t; Subject: Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD-0 Message-ID: <009EEBC2.CDF753B7@SendSpamHere.ORG>  K In article <399BEBFB.E5343E71@vrx.net>, Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net> writes:F' >"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:6 > {...snip...}J >> If you get an OK in writing from DECompaq and furnish it to me, I'll beK >> more than happy to forward you a copy (I think it's V7.1 Alpha).  Due to K >> some mix up, I received not one set but three!  In the meantime, the CDs  >> will remain in my archives. > N >Now you sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. Sorry, always wanted to say that.U >I will definitely work on this, in the meantime, I'm going to furnish you with PROOF L >that I own what I say I do. I keep my word (unless my life goes to hell) :)   :)  M >> BTW, if you really want to know how VMS works on the inside, please answertL >> me this.  Have you bothered to read the I&DS?  You will learn far more inM >> that book than you will from perusing the source listings.  I find the VMSeK >> listings useful when analyzing an Alpha crash and for the interface cal-tM >> ling conventions for some new "internal" functionality but, beyond that, ItL >> don't have the time to read them at leisure like I use to do.  In fact, aL >> recent project found me stepping through an I/O from start to finish withK >> XDELTA to figure out a problem and I studied the pertinent listings both ! >> day and night for over a week.s > U >well since I don't know what the "I&DS" is, I haven't read it, don't know what it iseX >or where to find it. I haven't even looked at the fiche yet, still trying to figure out >HOW I'm going to do that!  C The I&DS is the OpenVMS Internals and Data Structure book.  CurrentT author is Ruth Goldenberg.    o http://www.bh.com/bookscat/search/details.asp?isbn=155558120X&scope=Butterworth+Heinemann&country=United+Statesl   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMt   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2000 15:39:55 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman); Subject: Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CDo6 Message-ID: <8nh10b$t3p$3@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  K In article <399BEBFB.E5343E71@vrx.net>, Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net> writes:nA :well since I don't know what the "I&DS" is, I haven't read it...n  D   Please see the listing of books available at websites -- pointers D   to these sites are in the OpenVMS FAQ -- and particularly for the A   reference to the Internals and Data Structures Manual at these     websites.c  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:56:11 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger); Subject: Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD-L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1708001156110001@user-2ivec1i.dialup.mindspring.com>  J In article <399BEBFB.E5343E71@vrx.net>, Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net> wrote:  ( > "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:  N > > BTW, if you really want to know how VMS works on the inside, please answerM > > me this.  Have you bothered to read the I&DS?  You will learn far more inrN > > that book than you will from perusing the source listings.  I find the VMSL > > listings useful when analyzing an Alpha crash and for the interface cal-N > > ling conventions for some new "internal" functionality but, beyond that, IM > > don't have the time to read them at leisure like I use to do.  In fact, ahM > > recent project found me stepping through an I/O from start to finish withML > > XDELTA to figure out a problem and I studied the pertinent listings both" > > day and night for over a week. > L > well since I don't know what the "I&DS" is, I haven't read it, don't know  > what it is > or where to find it. n  H I&DS is the "Internals and Data Structures" book.  It has been publishedM several times, covering different versions of (Open)VMS Vax and Alpha.  SincerK VMS hasn't changed all that much, you would do well with any version of the.? book, and there's quite a bit of overlap between Vax and Alpha.t  H The two I have are certainly out of print, but you might find them used:  C VAX/VMS Internals and Data Structures, Version 4.4, copywrite 1988,oM Digital Press, ISBN 1-55558-008-4.  The Digital order number was EY-8264E-DP.e" This is a 979-page softcover book.   OpenVMS AXP Internals and Data Structures, Version 1.5, copywrite 1994, Digital Press, ISBN 1-55558-120-X.  Digital order number EY-Q77OE-DP. This is a 1672-page hardcover.  G There was also a Vax version 5.something hardcover, and perhaps others.o  F Digital Press is now a part of butterworth-heinemann.  They have a web site at www.bh.com.  You can do a title search on "VMS" and find a number of interesting books.  And surprisingly, the Alpha 1.5 I&DS is still available at $90, at least according to the web page.  (Be warned:  this is the most . over-cookied web page I have seen in a while.)   They also have an Alpha version 7.0 I&DS, but it only covers part of the OS, namely Scheduling and Process Control.  I believe the book is now undergoingtH "rolling upgrades", and it has been split into several separate volumes.  K You should get your hands on one of these books.  You'll get a much better iL return on your investment than the source listings would give you.  They are very well done.u  I I also find it helpful to use the System Dump Analyzer ($ ANALYZE/SYSTEM)oO to look at the running system as I study the I&DS.  If you don't have a machine.M to play with, there are always inexpensive used systems for sale at ebay, andw) you can get the hobbyist license for VMS.s   -- o Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comf   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2000 15:28:19 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)E Subject: Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS systems (was Re: dose vms run on intel)i6 Message-ID: <8nh0aj$t3p$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  4 In article <QYGm5.86$M62.31597@typhoon.aracnet.com>,4 "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes:  4 :Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote:O :>   I'd avoid systems with a Q-bus, UNIBUS, BI or similar, at least until you IO :>   are rather more familiar with OpenVMS and with VAX hardware, and I'd also r : K :Most definitly, while these are fun systems what Hoff doesn't mention hereeL :is that getting disks for them, especially the Q-Bus systems can be a royal :pain.    
   Correct.  L   Also, correctly configuring a Q-bus itself isn't a particularly difficult I   task, but it takes some training or experience or coaching, and it also L   generally requires the various individual controller manuals to determine L   the module-specific settings needed...  Very few folks unfamiliar with theJ   Q-bus will be able to correctly configure the system without a whole lotI   of reading, or without some detailed help from a more experienced user.f  L   If you want to get some background, search for the word "serpentine" over '   in the OpenVMS Ask The Wizard area...   M :If you don't like playing with hardware you don't want any of these systems!t :'L :>   avoid VAX systems with 7xx, 6xxx, 7xxx, 8xxx, 9xxx or 10xxx series for I :>   home use due to the age or the physical size and power requirements.t : B :I don't know...  The VAX 7000's I've seen don't look that bad :^)  K   :-) or not, these are clearly not hobbyist systems -- getting any of the uI   VAX 6000 and upwards series hooked to SCSI storage involves KFMSA DSSI a)   and HSD, or involves CIPCx CI and HSJ.    O :You'll also probably want to avoid VAX 4000's (note, I did not say VAXstation,mL :VAXstation 4000's are very nice).  Of course personally I'd love a VAX 4000 :to replace my MicroVAX 3 :^)s  K   Um, those are Q-bus systems, and included in my earlier recommendation...e  D   Be aware that there are a few VAX 4000 series systems that do not F   (necessarily) have a Q-bus, these are the VAX 4000 model 1xx series 	   boxes.    H   I won't suggest the rather rare VAX 4000 model 50 system, a box which )   installed inside the BA2xx Q-bus box...   O :>   With the Alpha series systems, most any (used) AlphaStation series system mK :>   would be a good choice, and most any low-end AlphaServer.  The larger iM :>   AlphaServer systems (AlphaServer 2100 and larger) will likely be larger w( :>   (and more expensive) than you want. :VJ :For a hobbyist system one thing to pay close attention to is how much theK :RAM for the system costs.  You're likely to find that you want to add morem6 :RAM to the system after you've used it for a while...  $   Good point.  From the OpenVMS SPD:  E     "The minimum amount of memory required to install, boot, and log mC     in to an OpenVMS Alpha system is 64 MB. To ensure satisfactory /@     performance for particular applications or number of users, A     additional memory may be required. Refer to specific layered a9     product documentation for their memory requirements."e  F   For single-user OpenVMS Alpha workstations, 96 to 128 megabytes (MB)F   will usually work quite nicely, but the more you have, the more you .   can have, and the more you can cache, etc...  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:52:23 -0400e4 From: "Bochnik, William J" <BochnikWJ@bernstein.com>/ Subject: RE: If Airlines were operating systemsiJ Message-ID: <2B37459189B0D211BE710000F8EF9D8505668267@nts0147.beehive.com>  J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0085A.C142943E  Content-Type: text/plain;" 	charset="iso-8859-1"        -----Original Message-----: From: Sue Skonetski [mailto:susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam] Sent: August 16, 2000 4:50 PMe To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com + Subject: If Airlines were operating systemsm    H You may have seen this before since its been around for awhile,  but its worth a repeat.a   Suef   [ren to nl:]   VMS AiryF You get on the plane via a smooth-running escalator following a swift, efficient check-inB Passengers can choose a size of plane to suit their journey but anD intercom is an optional extra  Your seat is comfortable but spartan.F A command-line option brings a touch of decadence.  Your stewardess is6 Sharon Stone: Getting on but still well worth the rideB There are numerous refreshments to choose from with a mind-blowingL number of options, all of which are deliverable.  The plane has an extra setI of wings so it can support NT air without effort. All passengers can takeo	 advantageoH of an extra seat for failover.  All flight controls are mirrored and the systemsfL are 'fly by command' rather than 'fly by pushing button.  If an engine fails anothercJ seamlessly takes it's place.  If the 'plane starts to labour through heavy loading H another engine is seamlessly powered up.  If the journey is extended the	 'plane is J upgraded in flight.  If the 'plane does happen to crash there's no problem because theu3 passengers also exist on another one 150 miles away!   -----mL and of course half way thru the flight, the plane is swapped out with eitherK the Unix version (in which case you crash before you have a chance to learnoG the controls) or NT, in which case it only stays aloft for an hour at aw time, and then crashes.               ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0085A.C142943E  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1"p+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printableo  1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">b <HTML> <HEAD>9 <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =t charset=3Diso-8859-1">@ <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
 5.5.2651.65">t5 <TITLE>RE: If Airlines were operating systems</TITLE>t </HEAD>o <BODY> <BR> <BR>  3 <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>d, <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: Sue Skonetski [<A =I HREF=3D"mailto:susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam">mailto:susan.skonetski@com=i paq.nospam</A>]</FONT>7 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: August 16, 2000 4:50 PM</FONT>&3 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com</FONT>wE <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: If Airlines were operating systems</FONT>o </P> <BR>  G <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>You may have seen this before since its been around =m  for awhile,&nbsp; but its</FONT>) <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>worth a repeat.</FONT>r </P>   <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sue</FONT> </P>  % <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>[ren to nl:]</FONT>i </P>    <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>VMS Air</FONT>H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>You get on the plane via a smooth-running escalator = following a swift,</FONT>o, <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>efficient check-in</FONT>H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Passengers can choose a size of plane to suit their = journey but an</FONT> E <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>intercom is an optional extra&nbsp; Your seat is =r comfortable but spartan.</FONT>'< <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>A command-line option brings a touch of =* decadence.&nbsp; Your stewardess is</FONT>F <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sharon Stone: Getting on but still well worth the = ride</FONT>tH <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>There are numerous refreshments to choose from with = a mind-blowing</FONT>e8 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>number of options, all of which are =4 deliverable.&nbsp; The plane has an extra set</FONT>F <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>of wings so it can support NT air without effort. = All passengers can take</FONT># <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>advantage</FONT>dD <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>of an extra seat for failover.&nbsp; All flight =$ controls are mirrored and the</FONT>! <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>systems</FONT> E <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>are 'fly by command' rather than 'fly by pushing =o' button.&nbsp; If an engine fails</FONT>e! <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>another</FONT>tE <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>seamlessly takes it's place.&nbsp; If the 'plane =s% starts to labour through heavy</FONT>n! <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>loading</FONT>yF <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>another engine is seamlessly powered up.&nbsp; If =" the journey is extended the</FONT># <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>'plane is</FONT> H <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>upgraded in flight.&nbsp; If the 'plane does happen =" to crash there's no problem</FONT>% <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>because the</FONT>xC <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>passengers also exist on another one 150 miles =t away</FONT>c </P>   <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----</FONT>I <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>and of course half way thru the flight, the plane is =yC swapped out with either the Unix version (in which case you crash =.I before you have a chance to learn the controls) or NT, in which case it =wD only stays aloft for an hour at a time, and then crashes.</FONT></P> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>   </BODY>t </HTML>h) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0085A.C142943E--.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:09:41 -04003. From: "David Rabahy" <David.Rabahy@compaq.com>/ Subject: Re: If Airlines were operating systemsS* Message-ID: <8ngv7r$g31@usenet.pa.dec.com>  L RE: If Airlines were operating systems... but a few smart lucky ones realize their mistake and switch back"%   Bochnik, William J wrote in messageaA <2B37459189B0D211BE710000F8EF9D8505668267@nts0147.beehive.com>...     G   and of course half way thru the flight, the plane is swapped out with L either the Unix version (in which case you crash before you have a chance toK learn the controls) or NT, in which case it only stays aloft for an hour ata a time, and then crashes   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:20:09 -0400t, From: Francoise Becker <francoise@lsoft.com>G Subject: Re: Is there an OpenVMS success story about this? -- Follow upe- Message-ID: <0FZG00D2K5GOIT@mx.west.saic.com>e  & On March 13, 2000, Alan Winston wrote:  G >  Just noted that LSOFT, the LISTSERV people, do mailing list hosting.a0 >  Here's the page on their main mail list host: > ; >  http://www.lsoft.com/products/default.asp?item=ease_plum- <snip>C >  I think Digital should really buy ads in glossy magazine talking-D >  about these internet records held by OpenVMS, and mentioning that= >  while Lsofts products run on various Unixes and NT and IBM F >  mainframes, when it came to running their own reliable servers they
 >  chose VMS.   B I just thought you would all like to know that shortly thereafter E (coincidentally -- I don't think it was as a result of this thread), eF Compaq *did* approach us and they made not only a glossy brochure but 
 also a video.I   The brochure is at:i8 http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvms/brochures/l-soft/  B and we will have a booth at the CETS2000 conference where we will C show the video. If you will be at the conference and you'd like to  F see the video, stop by and say hi and we'll be happy to show it. It's  about 3 minutes long.l  	 Francoiseo   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:30:10 -0400f* From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>! Subject: Java support on OpenVMS?l* Message-ID: <399C0502.B2962CD@rtfmcsi.com>  2 What amount of support exists in OpenVMS for Java?  B Is there a Java VM?  If yes, what version of Java does it support?  H Is anybody producing Java development tools for OpenVMS or does all JavaF development have to be done on another platform and then the byte-code gets moved to OpenVMS?  ? Is there any support for accessing system services and RTL's or,E functions in user-written shareable images from Java apps on OpenVMS?   G Is there any JDBC support in OpenVMS to allow Java applications to havef5 access to databases on OpenVMS or on other platforms?b    C I've done a lot of software development work on OpenVMS with C/C++, H Fortran, COBOL, Pascal and a little bit of ADA over the past 15 years orE so, but I've recently started working with Java for work on apps that F run on NetWare and Linux.  I'm working on an application that I'd likeC to have a portion of it run on OpenVMS, NetWare, Linux and possiblynF WinNT/Win2K.  I'm hoping that I can do this in Java but I'll fall backD on C++ if necessary.  I'm asking these questions because I've really0 heard very little about Java support in OpenVMS.     TIA,   ChuckV -- Chuck Choppo  8 ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com            http://www.rtfmcsi.com0                                   ICQ # 22321532@ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax4 Greer, SC  29651                  800 400 4935 pagerC                                   8004004935@alphapage.airtouch.comw   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2000 17:14:22 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)% Subject: Re: Java support on OpenVMS?d5 Message-ID: <8nh6he$kb$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>d  W In article <399C0502.B2962CD@rtfmcsi.com>, Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com> writes:n3 :What amount of support exists in OpenVMS for Java?h  I   You might want to check the OpenVMS FAQ or the current OpenVMS manuals -E   as a start.  (Particularly given the acronym used else-posting. :-)i  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2000 17:30:20 GMT' From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb)n% Subject: Re: Java support on OpenVMS? 0 Message-ID: <8nh7fc$euv$1@aquila.news.mdx.ac.uk>  W In article <399C0502.B2962CD@rtfmcsi.com>, Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com> writes: 3 >What amount of support exists in OpenVMS for Java?n >hC >Is there a Java VM?  If yes, what version of Java does it support?g >    See   N http://www.digital.com/java/download/jdk_ovms/1.2.2/j2sdk1.2.2_highlights.html   andy  M http://www.digital.com/java/download/fastvm_ovms/1.2.2/fvm122_highlights.htmlt   These are betas for VMS 7.2p  = For VMS 7.1 there is the JDK 1.1.8-5  for further details seeM  0 http://www.digital.com/java/downloads/index.html      I >Is anybody producing Java development tools for OpenVMS or does all JavaIG >development have to be done on another platform and then the byte-code  >gets moved to OpenVMS?. >   @ >Is there any support for accessing system services and RTL's orF >functions in user-written shareable images from Java apps on OpenVMS? >hH >Is there any JDBC support in OpenVMS to allow Java applications to have6 >access to databases on OpenVMS or on other platforms? >t  L You can certainly access Oracle via JDBC. Oracle provides a JDBC thin driver6 (Type 4 driver) and a JDBC-OCI driver (Type 2 driver).  L I've used the JDBC thin driver to access a Oracle 7.3.2.3.2  database on VMS 7.1.     eg   Alpha2:typ/pag EMPLOYEE.JAVA   /*A  * This sample shows how to list all the names from the EMP tablei  *=  * It uses the JDBC THIN driver.  See the same program in the H  * oci7 or oci8 samples directories to see how to use the other drivers.  */x  6 // You need to import the java.sql package to use JDBC import java.sql.*;   class Employee {h*   public static void main (String args [])        throws SQLException   { "     // Load the Oracle JDBC driverH     DriverManager.registerDriver(new oracle.jdbc.driver.OracleDriver());       // Connect to the databaseK     // You must put a database name after the @ sign in the connection URL.iK     // You can use either the fully specified SQL*net syntax or a short cuttM     // syntax as <host>:<port>:<sid>.  The example uses the short cut syntax.o     Connection conn ="!       DriverManager.getConnectionl1 ("jdbc:oracle:thin:@alpha1.mdx.ac.uk:1526:MYSID",o9                                    "user1", "password1");o  i etcm    % (SID, username and password changed)..     Alpha2:java "Employee" SMITHl ALLEN  WARD JONES  MARTIN BLAKED CLARKl SCOTT  KING TURNER ADAMSl JAMESt FORD MILLER  G As to other JDBC drivers you would need to talk the Database suppliers. E If like Oracle's JDBC Thin driver it is pure Java then it should work K on VMS. If it isn't a pure Java driver then it obviously depends on whethern( the database supplier has a VMS version.  a  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     >fD >I've done a lot of software development work on OpenVMS with C/C++,I >Fortran, COBOL, Pascal and a little bit of ADA over the past 15 years oreF >so, but I've recently started working with Java for work on apps thatG >run on NetWare and Linux.  I'm working on an application that I'd like D >to have a portion of it run on OpenVMS, NetWare, Linux and possiblyG >WinNT/Win2K.  I'm hoping that I can do this in Java but I'll fall backAE >on C++ if necessary.  I'm asking these questions because I've reallys1 >heard very little about Java support in OpenVMS.i >d >s >TIA,e >e >Chuck >--  >Chuck Chopp > 9 >ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com            http://www.rtfmcsi.comf1 >                                  ICQ # 22321532lA >RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemailn3 >103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 faxa5 >Greer, SC  29651                  800 400 4935 pageriD >                                  8004004935@alphapage.airtouch.com >  >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:47:40 -0400t4 From: "John L Ferguson" <John.L.Ferguson@compaq.com>% Subject: Re: Java support on OpenVMS?d5 Message-ID: <8nh8ja$vv$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>V   For JDBC support, also seeL http://www.attunity.com/content/newsevents/detail.asp?catid=6&scatid=20&o=10 7&y=8/9/2000&h=1.X  . The download page for Java on Alpha systems isH http://www.digital.com/java/download/index.html (there was a typo in the earlier response).  K The final kit for Java SDK v1.2.2 for OpenVMS Alpha is expected this month.n   John   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2000 10:24:31 GMT' From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb)a" Subject: Re: Mass adding of users?0 Message-ID: <8ngegv$c2g$1@aquila.news.mdx.ac.uk>  g In article <399B0C9B.93F8F292@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:c >JF Mezei wrote: >> vG >I suppose Dan Sugalski may have tuned out due to the static of recent.t >,C >Still, I was just wondering whether VMS Perl has any UAF interfacer* >modules akin to All-in-1's UAF "dataset". >  >--       There is a VMS::USER perl Module     Alpha2:perldoc vms::user   NAME7     VMS::User - Add, remove, list, and change VMS users    SYNOPSIS       use VMS::User;  &       @users = VMS::User::user_list();  0       $uairef = VMS::User::user_info($UserName);6       print "Default dir is ",$uairef->{DEFDIR}, "\n";     DESCRIPTIONlH     The VMS::User module provides access to the SYSUAF. Read-only at theB     moment, but that'll change with later versions of this module.   AUTHOR#     Dan Sugalski <sugalskd@ous.edu>a   BUGS&     None known, but it is beta code...   LIMITATIONS.K     The `user_list()' function spawns a subprocess that invokes `AUTHORIZE'yJ     and parses the output of `SHOW/BRIEF *'. This means that you need read>     access to SYSUAF and execute privs on AUTHORIZE to use it.   SEE ALSO     perl(1).        
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 15:25:58 +0000e$ From: Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk% Subject: RE: Moving at Internet Speedq/ Message-ID: <0025693E.0054DE58.00@quegw01.btyp>o  = Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plazai  O Yes, but it is true that EU law, and especially in France and Germany, makes it P VERY difficult to get rid of employees. Although it doesn't seem to be a problem
 in the UK.  M But then I, and I'm sure many others, could write pages on how useless the EU-L is, and how they makes business, and life in general, much more difficult to& enjoy - and flourish - at any level...  ! Sometimes I could kill Ted Heath!r   Steve Spires        B "Vajhoej, Arne" <Arne.Vajhoej@GTECH.COM> on 17/08/2000 02:06:21 PM  : To:        Rob Young <alpharob@erols.com>, "Vajhoej, Arne"#            <Arne.Vajhoej@GTECH.COM>aI cc:        Glenn and Mary Everhart <Everhart@gce.com>, "John E. Malmberg"4M            <wb8tyw@qsl.net>, John McLean <mcleanj@dplanet.ch>, David A Froble O            <davef@tsoft-inc.com>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>, "'ALANuC            GREIG'" <alan_greig@fmc.com>, david.gudewicz@abbott.com,nF            Shane.F.Smith@healthnet.com, tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk,E            tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk, coventrycity@allsports.com, Stevel8            Spires/YellowPages, NRA@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk,$            terryshannon@mediaone.netN From:      "Vajhoej, Arne" <Arne.Vajhoej@GTECH.COM>, 17 August 2000, 2:06 p.m.   RE: Moving at Internet Speed        A #> The danish Computerworld magazine has today a main story abouto@ #> IBM Denmark high-level executives leaving IBM en bloc becauseF #> they are tied on their hands and have no way of making any decisionA #> because there are company policies for everything. The overall.< #> picture is that IBM is very very difficult to get moving. #>   #    In Denmark.  @ #    Sure.  Not to start a xenophobic war with our friend acrossA #    the big pond but it does appear to be many different ways of'B #    doing and running things in Europe and the U.S.  We know fromD #    the Digital takeover it has been very difficult to cut EuropeanD #    (French and German) employees from the ranks.  I will leave outC #    value judgement.  Let me know if I am off base in that read ofe8 #    European versus U.S. employment protection schemes.  / It is true that things are different in Europe.-  : But the article was quite explicit about it being policies6 dictated from the US that tied the hands of the danish IBM executives.u   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:58:10 +0200r= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>=$ Subject: Re: Newbie Decnet+ Question) Message-ID: <399BA921.7FE93D62@gtech.com>p   Gary Robinson wrote:D > I've recently inherited a Compaq Alpha system (VMS 7.1)and need toE > change the node name and ip address. There are no manuals, and I'vexD > been flailing around with net$configure and ucx to no avail. Could > someone please help?   IP name & address:   $ @SYS$MANAGER:UCX$CONFIG    (UCX before V5.0)T   DECnet name & address:   $ @SYS$MANAGER:NET$CONFIGURE   (phase V/OSI/Plus)   $ EDIT SYS$SYSTEM:MODPARAMS.DAT:   (remember to AUTOGEN)F   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:44:43 GMTm' From: Gary Robinson <spgfr@my-deja.com>g$ Subject: Re: Newbie Decnet+ Question) Message-ID: <8ngtol$tgj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>w  ! Up and running :-) Thanks to all.i  
 Gary Robinsong    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.e   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2000 15:42:37 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) Subject: Re: NFS serving and ypF, Message-ID: <8nh15d$epp@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  X In article <rIgBi8b7h21h@eisner.decus.org>, kuhrt@eisner.decus.org (Marty Kuhrt) writes:? >We have a couple of Alphaservers and HSZ40s collecting dust inF@ >our computer room at the moment.  Our Solaris geeks are looking> >to implement a new disk farm and have been looking at NetApp, >Auspex, HSGs, etc.  3 >iD >I said, "Hey, I could NFS serve disks from a VMScluster to you!".   >a; >They scratched their pointy little heads and said, "Hmm... ? >Scalability, fault tolerance, clustering...  (They've heard my ; >"VMS is better" bit before, so they know some of the basic A >qualities)  Sounds like it might be a good idea.  Can you use yp  >for UID/GID syncing?"   >o >I said, "I'll look into it" >n= >So, is there a yp client for VMS?  Has anyone done somethinga >similar?  Gotchas?  Pitfalls?   Well...3  O I keep my Unix and VMS account NAMEs synched, but they use different passwords.NF The users get to pick their VMS passwords but the Unix ones are randomH strings.  The lack of YP doesn't prevent using NFS though, at least withH Multinet.  So long as all the account names match up you can take a UnixG password file and drop it in in the right location and it automagicallyOI matches the VMS and Unix account numbers.  So "frankj" on the Unix systemeK can mount "frankj"'s area on the VMS system and it all more or less works.    2 I've never seen a yp client or server for OpenVMS.  K I kind of hate to suggest this, but you could probably run netBSD on those hI alphaservers and it would work out a whole lot better for your company's   needs.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edur? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech I   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:32:29 GMT/1 From: "John Furcht" <johnfurcht@worldnet.att.net>E% Subject: old vms directory structure?iF Message-ID: <NkVm5.12743$4T.735781@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>  ) Can someone explain the directory tree ont  an old microvms (4.4) system.???3 I need to cut down on the disk space used, so I wase4 looking thru the disk for files i can safely delete.0 It appears the system root dir is [000000], with5 various subdirectories of system files. There is also-. a subdirectory [.000000] with the same tree of9 subdirectories/system files, including another [.000000], 8 again with the same tree of subdirectories/system files,6 and so on... I set def as far as [000000.000000.00000.3 00000.000000.000000] and always saw a repeat of thet( exact arrangement  I found in [0000000].0 Are these the same files or duplicates or what??   thanks in advance, john   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:54:24 +0200d6 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vandijk@getronics.nl>- Subject: Online Manual for a mylex controllertM Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B51187E465@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>n  H Where can I find a manual how to configure a mylex controller under VMS.   -- Jeroen M.W. van Dijk  Getronics Business Continuity BV8 Error #152 - Windows not found: (C)heer (P)arty (D)ance.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:00:04 +02000= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>V Subject: Re: Posix support) Message-ID: <399BA994.E1F1100F@gtech.com>i   "M. van Eck" wrote:tL > I have heard rumours that Posix support still exists for VMS. Could anyoneL > tell me if that is true? If Yes, who is supporting it and is a version for > VMS 7.2 available?  H If I remember correct, then 7.1 was the last version with POSIX support.  G There are happening a lot with VMS rigth now to get, if not POSIX back,v then. same/better support for similar functionality.   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2000 15:07:32 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: Posix support6 Message-ID: <8ngv3k$sgk$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  f In article <8neqqd$r6v$1@rubidium.news.lion-access.net>, "M. van Eck" <m.van.eck02@freeler.nl> writes:K :I have heard rumours that Posix support still exists for VMS. Could anyonefK :tell me if that is true? If Yes, who is supporting it and is a version forp :VMS 7.2 available?   -   As the term "support" has specific meaning:-  $     o There is no support for POSIX.,     o I am aware of no plans to add support.<     o The existing kit does not function on recent releases.  H   There is an internal update to the POSIX tools -- one that I am hopingG   to pry loose for the next OpenVMS Freeware or otherwise -- that runs sG   on OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1 and on more recent releases.  This update wasrF   a result of work performed for the DII COE work discussed elsewhere.G   Any packaging and any release of the kit (via Freeware or otherwise) iI   is currently of lower priority than some other projects, including the sF   DII COE work and the OpenVMS V7.3 release, among other projects -- IE   have no schedule nor expected date for release of any POSIX update.o  I   I can forward requests through to the relevent OpenVMS product manager.   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 02:06:58 -0700h5 From: Richard  <maher_rjNOmaSPAM@hotmail.com.invalid>pF Subject: Re: Programmatic access to byte count rx/tx on TCP/IP socket.9 Message-ID: <060fc0cc.a5612d0f@usw-ex0108-062.remarq.com>b   Hi Mark,  8 The only thing that I can suggest (short of accumulating5 your own stats in a global section maintained by youri7 parent & child read/write routines) is to find a system : with UCX (unfortunately NETCU doesn't seem to have it) and do a:-   UCX> SHO DEV BGnnnne  3 You might need to have a /FULL (I'll check tonight)x  5 Anyway, if any of the figures on that screen are what 5 you're looking for then they are attainable through ar6 $getdvi or $qio io$_sensmode itemlist or iosb or maybe io$_acpcontrol.2  5 > > PS. I thought you said your dog does not bite :-) 4 > Unless you live next door to me I do not know what
 > this means.i  ; I was referring to the pedantic thread. In a scene from onei of the Pink Panther movies:-  1 Clouseau approaches a man standing next to a dog.s   Clouseau: "Does your dog bite?"h Man:      "No."h  8 Clouseau then reaches over to pat the dog and almost has his arm taken off.  5 Clouseau: "I thought you said your dog doesn't bite!"- Man:      "That is not my dog."n  0 Oh well, it is funny when Peter Sellers does it.   Regards Richard Maher.       * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautifulp   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:20:01 GMTa/ From: "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net>p& Subject: Re: Reconfigure Network CardsF Message-ID: <lwSm5.12483$4T.721341@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>   Wow Hoff, you let him off easy.e  G My answer may have included things like a trash compactor to get rid of/ them,2  L and a batch of silicon, copper, silver, epoxy, some etching chemicals etc... to create new ones  :-)r  L I hope he comes back with more information, because I am planning to replace my FDDI and 10baseTdK cards on  my Alpha VMS 7.2-1 8400 with Gigabit ethernet.  I use LAT, TCPIP,$ DECNet, and SNA protocols,G in addition to DECAMDS.  I will be looking for information on replacingU these cards in a couple of months.E  ? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in messageI0 news:8nem8f$b7q$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com... >e@ > In article <8nee4c$1sh$1@bw107zhb.bluewin.ch>, "Markus Eymann" <eymannm@bluewin.ch> writes:> > :How could I delete my Network Devices and create them new?? >nC >   Beware: one-line questions are often rather difficult for folksn@ >   to answer, particularly given the potential for ambiguity... >p" >   I will assume this is OpenVMS. >- >   The usual questions apply: >eA >     What is the particular problem you are attempting to solve?v >     Which OpenVMS version? >     Which platform?-  >     Which network protocol(s)?" >     Which network controller(s)?G >     Is this specific to any particular applications?  (If so, which?)u > , > :please send answers to eymannm@bluewin.ch >o! >   Ask here, get an answer here.r >l, >  --------------------------- pure personal# opinion ---------------------------p1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineeringu hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >u   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2000 17:11:06 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)& Subject: Re: Reconfigure Network Cards5 Message-ID: <8nh6ba$kb$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>a  x In article <lwSm5.12483$4T.721341@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net> writes:H :...I am planning to replace my FDDI and 10baseT cards on  my Alpha VMS $ :7.2-1 8400 with Gigabit ethernet...  G   The PCI Gigabit Ethernet (GbE) network upgrade is usually little morewJ   than a board swap, or a board addition.  If you are running DECnet-Plus M   or if you have DECnet Phase IV and a carefully configured multiple-segment uL   LAN, you can also add the new cards to the existing network configuration M   during the transition.  As usual, you will want to acquire and install the  K   current mandatory ECO kits for OpenVMS and any ECOs specific to GbE, and aJ   you will want to confirm that you have the current SRM console firmware J   loaded.  I'd tend to leave the FDDI around, if nothing else than for theJ   extra level of redundancy that SAS or particularly DAS can provide here.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 07:31:02 -070003 From: Jeff Coffield <Jeffrey@DigitalSynergyInc.com>l Subject: Re: RMS Index Problem5 Message-ID: <399BF726.5D0CEDAD@DigitalSynergyInc.com>7   Dave O'Brien wrote:r  M > Our Data Management team has come up with an RMS puzzle that I haven't been4M > able to solve.  The file involved is an indexed file, 299 bytes per record,u > 16 million total records.e >dM > The problem comes in when they needed an additional field indexed.  For 95%sG > of the records, this field contains a U.  The other 5% of the recordstM > contain either an E, R, or P.  With this field not indexed, they try to runtL > reports (Crystal Info through Easysoft ODBC), they often want to report onM > all records not equal to U.  With this field not indexed, this report takesxM > forever since it needs to scan through every record in that file.  Indexingo$ > the file makes these reports fast. >-H > This is obviously an extremely inefficient index.  When trying to postK > additional records, without the additional index, 7 records are posted infI > less than 30 seconds.  With the index, it takes more than 12 minutes to@M > post these records.  I assume that RMS needs to rebuild the index with eachxM > post, and rebuilding 95% of the 16 million records when a U record is addedt > is the problem.W >oH > The programmers here seem to think there is a way in RMS to equate theH > value U with null, therefore increasing the index efficiency.  Is thisK > true?  Will it really help?  Anyone have any ideas on how we can have ourA > cake and eat it too? > @ > Let me know if posting the FDL for this file would be helpful. > ! > Thanks in advance for any help.l >  > Dave >tB > ----------------------------------------------------------------6 > Dave O'Brien                     Phone: 978-531-18006 > Director, Information Technology Fax:   978-531-4451B > Amergent                         Email: obrien@mail.amergent.com; > 9 Centennial Drive               http://www.amergent.com/- > Peabody, MA  01960B > ----------------------------------------------------------------  I I have run into this several times. The solution I now use is to make them alternate key unique by addingK the primary key (usually unique already) to the end. That way you avoid ther duplicate key list processingoL in RMS. We have some files with 9 or 10 keys and have no perfomance problems (except there is no such# thing as a "fast enough" computer).S   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:42:52 -0400 - From: Dave O'Brien <obrien@mail.amergent.com>e Subject: Re: RMS Index ProblemA Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000817114120.00e4e950@mail.amergent.com>r  J Thanks to all who responded.  I'll be following your advise, and probably J contacting a couple people who emailed me off line with suggestions.  I'm A always amazed at how much knowledge is transferred in this forum.e   Dave      @ ----------------------------------------------------------------4 Dave O'Brien                     Phone: 978-531-18004 Director, Information Technology Fax:   978-531-4451@ Amergent                         Email: obrien@mail.amergent.com9 9 Centennial Drive               http://www.amergent.com/p Peabody, MA  01960@ ----------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:20:47 +0200e6 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vandijk@getronics.nl>) Subject: Sugestion for new error messagesaM Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B51187E468@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>0  H You may have seen this before since its been around for awhile,  but its worth a repeat.m   Jeroen    ' If computer error messages were haikus:s   First snow, then silence.w  This thousand dollar screen dies so beautifully.i   With searching comes losso and the presence of absence: "My Novel" not found.i   Three things are certain:i death, taxes, and lost data. Guess which has occurred.n   A file that big? It might be very useful, but now it is gone.D   Windows NT crashed.  I am the Blue Screen of Death. No one hears your screams.   Errors have occurred.c We won't tell you where or why.r Lazy programmers.i   The code was willing.  It considered your request,  but the chips were weak.   Printer not ready. Could be a fatal error.  Have a pen handy?    This site has been moved.o" We'd tell you where, but then we'd have to delete you.    ABORTED effort:e Close all that you have. You ask way too much.i   The Web site you seeke cannot be located buto endless others exist.D   A crash reducesh your expensive computeru to a simple stone.   Yesterday it worked. Today it is not working. Windows is like that.g   Having been erased,e the document you're seeking  must now be retyped.   Serious error. All shortcuts have disappeared.e Screen. Mind. Both are blank.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:18:54 +1000W/ From: Ebeling Ross <Ross.Ebeling@tg.nsw.gov.au>i/ Subject: RE: VAXStation 4000 Model 60 internals-H Message-ID: <9E277D5010F0D311A8CB00508B7152B41DFF1D@exho1.tg.nsw.gov.au>  [ Thansk for a quick response - our resident VMS guru warned me to expect to wait overnight!!2   + -----Original Message-----< + From: Christopher Smith [mailto:chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com]& + Sent: Thursday, 17 August 2000 15:40 + To: Ebeling Ross + Cc: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comc1 + Subject: Re: VAXStation 4000 Model 60 internalst +  + * + On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, Ebeling Ross wrote: + @ + > I am trying to establish a "hobbyist" VAX system to keep my 6 + hand in at home. I have the opportunity to bid on a ? + VAXstation 4000 model 60 in an upcoming auction. I thought I r	 <snipped> : + > Can anyone tell me what form of CD-ROM is used in the > + VAXstations? Is it a "common or garden" ISE (as in standard  + PC), or is it a 50-pin SCSI? + ? + ISA is common these days?  The only things I've ever seen it i + used in were3 + intel platform stuff, and a couple macintoshes ;)p  iDyslexia lures - I meant "IDE" of course. It was a hope - so many of the older microVAX parts LOOKED like PC gear, and DEC even flirted with Rainbows, of course. I have a Rainbow 100 I hope to resurrect one day - beautifully constructed internally, even if it is an 8086. The "server class contruction" mentality certainly shows up the Taiwanese clone builders.    + G + All kidding aside, not only is it a SCSI drive, but it must also be aIB + drive which can have a 512 byte block size (if memory serves...)	 <snipped>p= + > I suppose the most significant question is - "is there a /1 + VAX hardware FAQ, and where can I get a copy?" C + @ + That's a tough one.  There's the comp.os.vms FAQ -- I'd start  + with that.  G I've even had a minor win with that - I found the "R.D.Davis MVAX FAQ"    @ + There's also a comp.sys.dec -- you might check to see if they  + have a FAQ + too.   Will doa   +  + HTH, and regards,a +  + Chrisf +    Thanks for your time.i  U Hopefully, this time tomorrow I will be the proud owner of a 10 year old VAXStation!!    regards    Ross    F **********************************************************************I "This electronic message and any attachments may be confidential.  If you.J are not the intended recipient of this message could you please delete theH message and any attachments and advise the sender.  TransGrid uses virusI scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in anyG attachment".  G This email may contain privileged and confidential information intended C only for the use of the addressees named above.  If you are not theeG intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any use,tJ dissemination, distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.  If> you have received this email in error, please notify TransGrid@ immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of theF individual sender except where the sender expressly and with authority* states them to be the views of TransGrid".  F **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 09:50:48 GMTt From: arcarlini@iee.org / Subject: RE: VAXStation 4000 Model 60 internalst) Message-ID: <8ngchk$a24$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   H In article <9E277D5010F0D311A8CB00508B7152B41DFF1D@exho1.tg.nsw.gov.au>,2   Ebeling Ross <Ross.Ebeling@tg.nsw.gov.au> wrote:F > Dyslexia lures - I meant "IDE" of course. It was a hope - so many ofH >the older microVAX parts LOOKED like PC gear, and DEC even flirted withH >Rainbows, of course. I have a Rainbow 100 I hope to resurrect one day -G >beautifully constructed internally, even if it is an 8086. The "server D >class contruction" mentality certainly shows up the Taiwanese clone
 >builders.  D I don't know which MicroVAX/VAXstation you are acquiring but none ofA them support IDE. The CDROMs are all SCSI and all need to support  512-byte sectors.m  A The Rainbow of course had a Z80 inside it too ... runs CP/M quite$ nicely.i     Antonioo      & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:37:05 -0400 # From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu> / Subject: Re: VAXStation 4000 Model 60 internalsi+ Message-ID: <399BF891.2D8778CB@hsc.vcu.edu>e  ! try the microvax faq, located at K  , http://anacin.nsc.vcu.edu/~jim/mvax-faq.html  % hint: it's looking for a new home!!!!-   Ebeling Ross wrote:  >  > Colleagues >  > I am trying to establish a "hobbyist" VAX system to keep my hand in at home. I have the opportunity to bid on a VAXstation 4000 model 60 in an upcoming auction. I thought I knew something about older PCs, but VAXen are totally new to me!t >  > Can anyone tell me what form of CD-ROM is used in the VAXstations? Is it a "common or garden" ISE (as in standard PC), or is it a 50-pin SCSI? > ] > Can I use any 50-pin SCSI HDD, or do I need a particular low-level format or ROM for VAXen?  >  > Is "VAXen" the plural of VAX?  > i > I suppose the most significant question is - "is there a VAX hardware FAQ, and where can I get a copy?"S >   > Any help would be appreciated. >  > advthanksanceo >  > Ross Ebeling >  > ross.ebeling@tg.nsw.gov.au > H > **********************************************************************K > "This electronic message and any attachments may be confidential.  If youoL > are not the intended recipient of this message could you please delete theJ > message and any attachments and advise the sender.  TransGrid uses virusK > scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in anyt > attachment". > I > This email may contain privileged and confidential information intended E > only for the use of the addressees named above.  If you are not the I > intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any use,-L > dissemination, distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.  If@ > you have received this email in error, please notify TransGridB > immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of theH > individual sender except where the sender expressly and with authority, > states them to be the views of TransGrid". > H > **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:46:24 -0400w# From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>k/ Subject: Re: VAXStation 4000 Model 60 internalsc+ Message-ID: <399BFAC0.E225F27D@hsc.vcu.edu>.   sorry 'bout that....   it's  1 http://anacin.nsc.vcu.edu/~jim/mvax/mvax_faq.html.         Jim Agnew wrote: > " > try the microvax faq, located at > . > http://anacin.nsc.vcu.edu/~jim/mvax-faq.html > ' > hint: it's looking for a new home!!!!a >  > Ebeling Ross wrote:g > >m > > Colleagues > >4 > > I am trying to establish a "hobbyist" VAX system to keep my hand in at home. I have the opportunity to bid on a VAXstation 4000 model 60 in an upcoming auction. I thought I knew something about older PCs, but VAXen are totally new to me!  > >e > > Can anyone tell me what form of CD-ROM is used in the VAXstations? Is it a "common or garden" ISE (as in standard PC), or is it a 50-pin SCSI? > >a_ > > Can I use any 50-pin SCSI HDD, or do I need a particular low-level format or ROM for VAXen?< > >V! > > Is "VAXen" the plural of VAX?2 > >.k > > I suppose the most significant question is - "is there a VAX hardware FAQ, and where can I get a copy?"o > >I" > > Any help would be appreciated. > >I > > advthanksance  > >e > > Ross Ebeling > >d > > ross.ebeling@tg.nsw.gov.au > >iJ > > **********************************************************************M > > "This electronic message and any attachments may be confidential.  If you.N > > are not the intended recipient of this message could you please delete theL > > message and any attachments and advise the sender.  TransGrid uses virusM > > scanning software but excludes any liability for viruses contained in anys > > attachment". > > K > > This email may contain privileged and confidential information intendedeG > > only for the use of the addressees named above.  If you are not theeK > > intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any use, N > > dissemination, distribution, reproduction of this email is prohibited.  IfB > > you have received this email in error, please notify TransGridD > > immediately.  Any views expressed in this email are those of theJ > > individual sender except where the sender expressly and with authority. > > states them to be the views of TransGrid". > >uJ > > **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 08:40:43 -0400 ) From: yyyc186.illegaltospam_@flashcom.netS! Subject: Re: VMS hobbyist version 9 Message-ID: <399bdd89$1$lllp186$mr2ice@news.flashcom.com>   2 In <39957D04.DD04F12D@tsoft-inc.com>, on 08/17/00 :    at 08:40 AM, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> said:   >Mike Kenzie wrote:d >> sM >> Is it also available on TK50 tape?  My VAXSTATION doesn't have a cd (yet).   G >As far as I know, no, the hobby media is not available on TK50.  (I'veu >been wrong before)H  G According to the link I looked at on www.decus.org the VAX distribution # comes on TK50 and the alpha CD rom.i   Roland     --  ; -----------------------------------------------------------.D yyyc186@flashcom.net              To Respond delete ".illegaltospam"6                             MR/2 Internet Cruiser 1.528                             For a Microsoft free univers; -----------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:07:39 +0200i6 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vandijk@getronics.nl>! Subject: RE: VMS hobbyist versioneM Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B51187E467@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>n  ` Well we have 1 alpha and 1 vax that have 2048 Mb of RAM and all our system disks are 2 Gb large.1 So that is the start of the a possible problem :)   p My boss doesn't see any problem and to be honest there is no risk, because with the same systemdisk the systems ' are not used in a production situation.t  i     -----Original Message-----: From: Christopher Smith [mailto:chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com]$ Sent: dinsdag 15 augustus 2000 18:53 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn! Subject: Re: VMS hobbyist versionc    $ On Tue, 15 Aug 2000, SysAdmin wrote:   > "Dijk, Jeroen van" wrote: z > > The only rule I know about sizes of system disk is that the size of the system disk should be larger then your memory.r > > I don't know by hard what the max. memory is of a vaxstation, but I would be amazed if it's large then 512 Mb.  B > Are you perhaps thinking about the size of a swap partition or a > page/swap file?u  J Well, personally, I've never had a system disk that held less than the RAM in its particular box...   Chris   O ===============================================================================r@ "My two cents"			(http://rootworks.com/twocentsworth.cgi?128562)= Christopher Smith(chriss@pubserv.com)			Prgramer^W Programmerr Prime Synergy of Champaign, IL.-% -------------------------------------iI "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes andeH weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes; and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949 fO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------2   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 02:43:20 -0400n* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: VMS Vs any other OS- Message-ID: <399B8988.EED0F88B@tsoft-inc.com>   & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: > I > Then you're a newbie here, eh?  The long-time reader here will remember.I > the general atmosphere of this newsgroup when it was carl.os.vms and, I H > am fairly certain I can comment for the majority that, we would prefer6 > that comp.os.vms not erode to that state ever again. > H > That said, your mannerisms are very much akin to that of the late CJL.H > Come in, offer some useful and/or pertinent information, and then pro-H > ceed to spew vehement remarks and slurs which the great many here will# > expurgate with a kill file entry.e > H > Please tone it down.  This thread is acheiving a noise-to-signal ratioC > the likes of which have not been seen here in a very great while.n  O Having never been exposed to CJL, maybe I cannot appriciate just how bad thingssO can become.  However, if these 2 (Bill and David) don't stop this, I'm afraid I O might start to consider what it would take for a 'seek and destroy' thingy thatrO would take someone out as soon as they connect to the internet.  Being a rathernO firm advocate of freedom of speach, I rather surprise myself with this feeling, O which indicates to me that this has gone far beyond any reasonable limits.  I'd N also think that if things were to get so heated, the principals would take theO discussion private.  By not doing so, there is the implication that the remarks-1 are made with the specific purpose to offend all.    Dave   -- e4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:33:42 GMTr% From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@dialupnet.com>n- Subject: Re: VMS vs unix (the true contender)e8 Message-ID: <pq4opsgholubph67a24g5apvchum2399oo@4ax.com>  E On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 16:46:41 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancye! <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:a     > > >Gosh an engineer who knows something about Sun's products andC >something about other vendors products (why would this be unusual),7 >Ohhh I am sorry I forgot you don't do that do you :):)m  B Well, this is debatable, isn't it.  I've found many errors in yourC assessment and understanding of competitors products - particularly 2 OpenVMS and VMSclusters (this is c.o.v after all).  + So don't let your ego get you too far here.     1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaqm- (get rid of the xxxx in my address to e-mail)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:22:45 +0100-B From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>- Subject: Re: VMS vs unix (the true contender)e* Message-ID: <399C1155.E4DD114A@uk.sun.com>   Jordan Henderson wrote:l  , > In article <399AB761.A2C4BEE9@uk.sun.com>,F > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: > >-D > >I am not sure what your point is if there was one. TechWise usingE > >SPECfp for their analysis rather than SPECint would heve been evenuB > >more ludicrous. Sure Alpha servers have good SPECfp numbers butE > >TechWise were measuring (if this is the right description) TCO fore? > >commercial servers and in case you hadn't noticed commercial B > >applications workloads don't tend to be very FP intensive. GoodI > >FP performance is not going to be an influencing factor in Oracle/RDB/y? > >Sybase/Informix/SAPWeb/Mail/FS/Messaging Server performance.M > >e >nB > You were the one who questioned the Techwise report based on theC > fact that it compared systems based on SpecINT numbers.  Now, youu@ > quote some other, possibly irrelevant benchmark, to prove that? > the TCO for AlphaServers/OpenVMS can't possibly be as good asu > those for Sun/Sparc/Solaris. >w  B What benchmark, you were the person who sicked up SPECfp, I simply@ pointed out that SPECfp was an even less relevant benchmark than> SPECint for commercial workloads. Re-read my response there is& nothing in it about another benchmark.   Lets try once more.   3 TechWise's TCO figures are based on the notion thata6 you can use SPECint to compare the throughput/capacity; of servers. The fact is you can't if the server is an Alphan box.  4 So they have a Sun, HP and Compaq that have the same4 SPECint performance, they now ask the customers what9 they paid for these three "equal in capacity systems" and 2 how much it costs the customers to run these three "equal in capacity systems".  7 They now have figures that supposedly show the relative1B cost of buying and owning these three "equal in capacity systems".  2 I don't know that much about TCO analysis but evenG without the SPECint this is a ludicrous method of doing TCO comparisonsv? because it totally ignores what the systems are actually doing.d  6 The Sun might be supporting 1000 SAP users running the4 SAP SD and FI modules the HP 1000 and the Compaq 5007 and its that which TechWise should be measuring and not > the relative performance of the systems using an arbitrary and4 in the case of Compaq absurdly flattering benchmark.  ; You incorrectly accuse me of being in marketing or sales atb7 Sun but seem unable to smell a marketing/sales rat whenm9 one is sitting right under your nose. The TechWise TCO iso7 pure Compaq marketing just in the same way that all the 6 NT TCO studies that show that NT is cheaper than UNIX/+ any other OS that pop up on www.ms.com are.   = Whats more its badly done marketing because it uses a measures< which is so transparently in favour of Compaq as the initial4 multiplier on which all the other numbers are based.     >;G > >Gosh an enginner in front of a customer (why would this be unusual).f; > >Ohhh I am sorry I forgot you don't do that do you :):):)l > >  >hF > Of course, you don't know anything about me, but I can tell you thatE > I work at a customer site and I am in front of customers every day.  >s  G Hang on, you were the one that seemed to think that an engineer meeting D a customer was strange. Now you tell me that you are an engineer andE you see customers regularly.  So why did you question the idea that as# Sun engineer might visit customers.o  , I can only draw three conclusions from this:F 1.    Either you arn't an engineer and the previous post was a mistake: 2.    You are confused and want to start this thread againM 3.    You arn't confused but thought that sugesting that real engineers don't P        visit customers with sales people would help you win the argument despite  G        the fact that you are an engineer and regularly visit customers.y   Regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architecth   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Aug 2000 13:35:28 -0400/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)*- Subject: Re: VMS vs unix (the true contender)a* Message-ID: <8nh7p0$igd$1@lisa.gemair.com>  * In article <399C1155.E4DD114A@uk.sun.com>,D Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: >Jordan Henderson wrote: >s- >> In article <399AB761.A2C4BEE9@uk.sun.com>,aG >> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:a >> >E >> >I am not sure what your point is if there was one. TechWise using F >> >SPECfp for their analysis rather than SPECint would heve been evenC >> >more ludicrous. Sure Alpha servers have good SPECfp numbers butbF >> >TechWise were measuring (if this is the right description) TCO for@ >> >commercial servers and in case you hadn't noticed commercialC >> >applications workloads don't tend to be very FP intensive. GoodtJ >> >FP performance is not going to be an influencing factor in Oracle/RDB/@ >> >Sybase/Informix/SAPWeb/Mail/FS/Messaging Server performance. >> > >>C >> You were the one who questioned the Techwise report based on the0D >> fact that it compared systems based on SpecINT numbers.  Now, youA >> quote some other, possibly irrelevant benchmark, to prove that @ >> the TCO for AlphaServers/OpenVMS can't possibly be as good as >> those for Sun/Sparc/Solaris.e >> >.C >What benchmark, you were the person who sicked up SPECfp, I simplysA >pointed out that SPECfp was an even less relevant benchmark than,? >SPECint for commercial workloads. Re-read my response there isw' >nothing in it about another benchmark.t >l >Lets try once more. >,4 >TechWise's TCO figures are based on the notion that7 >you can use SPECint to compare the throughput/capacityi< >of servers. The fact is you can't if the server is an Alpha >box.t  : OK.  I see your point now.  I thought you were questioning; the use of SpecINT in isolation from other Spec benchmarks.a: You weren't, you were saying that Spec is a poor benchmark& of real world application performance.   >j5 >So they have a Sun, HP and Compaq that have the same-5 >SPECint performance, they now ask the customers what : >they paid for these three "equal in capacity systems" and3 >how much it costs the customers to run these threev >"equal in capacity systems".q >o8 >They now have figures that supposedly show the relativeC >cost of buying and owning these three "equal in capacity systems".  > 3 >I don't know that much about TCO analysis but eventH >without the SPECint this is a ludicrous method of doing TCO comparisons@ >because it totally ignores what the systems are actually doing. >o7 >The Sun might be supporting 1000 SAP users running thet5 >SAP SD and FI modules the HP 1000 and the Compaq 500i8 >and its that which TechWise should be measuring and not? >the relative performance of the systems using an arbitrary andS5 >in the case of Compaq absurdly flattering benchmark.R >f< >You incorrectly accuse me of being in marketing or sales at8 >Sun but seem unable to smell a marketing/sales rat when: >one is sitting right under your nose. The TechWise TCO is8 >pure Compaq marketing just in the same way that all the7 >NT TCO studies that show that NT is cheaper than UNIX/*, >any other OS that pop up on www.ms.com are. >*  6 As if only Compaq and MS do this.  I can point you to 6 studies on www.sun.com that are similar in nature.  I 7 recognize the TechWise study is marketing support, but g7 I thought you weren't addressing it fairly and bringings up irrelevancies.g  > >Whats more its badly done marketing because it uses a measure= >which is so transparently in favour of Compaq as the initialo5 >multiplier on which all the other numbers are based.  >  >r >>H >> >Gosh an enginner in front of a customer (why would this be unusual).< >> >Ohhh I am sorry I forgot you don't do that do you :):):) >> > >>G >> Of course, you don't know anything about me, but I can tell you thataF >> I work at a customer site and I am in front of customers every day. >> >iH >Hang on, you were the one that seemed to think that an engineer meetingE >a customer was strange. Now you tell me that you are an engineer and F >you see customers regularly.  So why did you question the idea that a$ >Sun engineer might visit customers. > - >I can only draw three conclusions from this:iG >1.    Either you arn't an engineer and the previous post was a mistaken; >2.    You are confused and want to start this thread againbN >3.    You arn't confused but thought that sugesting that real engineers don'tQ >       visit customers with sales people would help you win the argument despites >cH >       the fact that you are an engineer and regularly visit customers. >   F Visiting customers is one thing.  Supporting a sales demonstration, asF you were reported to be doing, is quite another.  Most Sales/MarketingE organizations in large companies (like Sun and Compaq) have Technicalt- Sales/Marketing Engineers for this purpose.  X  D I'm suggesting that you are both an Engineer AND in Sales/Marketing.  E I spend a lot of time in front of customers, but I don't do pre-salesa technical presentations. n   >Regards >Andrew Harrison >Enterprise IT Architect >e >  >t   -Jordan Hendersona jordan@greenapple.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:51:42 GMTi From: arcarlini@iee.orgt1 Subject: Re: Whilst on the subject of listings...?) Message-ID: <8ngg3p$dpk$1@nnrp1.deja.com>.  ' In article <FzB4xo.Eup@spcuna.spc.edu>,E+   Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> wrote:  >   For grins: >*E > QB-001AA-EM, VMS SOURCE LIC & KIT 6250 MT, $25000.00, not available  >c  E The last time I saw a price was back in the V4 days ... and it had an  extra zero on there ...t  A V4 days may well have been the last time such a kit was produced.a   Antonio     & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.r   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.459 ************************