1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 18 Aug 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 460       Contents:. Re: /float qualifier and resulting performance Re: ??== DCPS 1.8 available.# RE: ASCII control characters in DCL # RE: ASCII control characters in DCL # Re: ASCII control characters in DCL # Re: ASCII control characters in DCL # Re: ASCII control characters in DCL # Re: ASCII control characters in DCL # Re: ASCII control characters in DCL  Berkley Cruise info . Re: bizarre disappearing mouse pointer problem Re: Caching RMS Block I/O  CD-RW with VMS 5.5?  CD-RW with VMS 5.5? + Re: Cluster transaction processing paradigm  Re: dose vms run on intel  Re: dose vms run on intel  Re: Gnome replacing CDE? Re: Gnome replacing CDE?3 Hammered Printer - was Re: Hmmmm a strange question 7 Re: Hammered Printer - was Re: Hmmmm a strange question  Help - Scheduler Problem Help - Scheduler Problem2 Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD2 Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD2 Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD2 Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD2 Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD2 Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD2 Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD2 Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD2 Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD Hmmmm a strange question Re: Hmmmm a strange question Re: Hmmmm a strange question Re: Hmmmm a strange question Re: Hmmmm a strange question< Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS systems (was Re: dose vms run on intel)< Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS systems (was Re: dose vms run on intel)> Re: Is there an OpenVMS success story about this? -- Follow up Re: Java support on OpenVMS? Re: Java support on OpenVMS?6 lucky7.to - What a lucky Free URL Redirection Service!  Re: old vms directory structure?  Re: old vms directory structure? old vms directory structure? OpenVMS Web Forum  Re: OpenVMS Web Forum  Re: OpenVMS Web Forum  Re: OpenVMS Web Forum $ partial port of Postgresql available Possible Timeout using FTP= Re: Programmatic access to byte count rx/tx on TCP/IP socket.  Sony MO on VAXstation 4000/60 * Taking a MicroVax 3100-90 out of a cluster. Re: Taking a MicroVax 3100-90 out of a cluster VAXSTATION 4000/90 Re: VAXSTATION 4000/90 Re: VMS hobbyist version Re: VMS Vs any other OS  Re: VMS Vs any other OS  Re: VMS Vs any other OS  Re: VMS Vs any other OS  Re: VMS Vs any other OS  Re: VMS Vs any other OS $ Re: VMS vs unix (the true contender)$ Re: VMS vs unix (the true contender) What quota was exceeded  Re: What quota was exceeded $ Why couldn't linux read a vms drive?( Re: Why couldn't linux read a vms drive?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2000 13:20:42 PDTT From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515)7 Subject: Re: /float qualifier and resulting performance 3 Message-ID: <i4cd2WGgme3n@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>   + In article <399BCF59.66E0F044@sunysb.edu>,  5     	John Hasstedt <John.Hasstedt@sunysb.edu> writes: H > You can use f$getsyi to test whether the floating point is in hardware > or emulated: > " > $ x=f$getsyi("g_float_emulated")
 > $ sho sym x  >   X = "FALSE"  > I > You can check f_float_emulated, d_float_emulated, g_float_emulated, and  > h_float_emulated.   H         Hey, great!  So on  our  VAX  66x0's  and  my VAXstation 4000/60H     (both    NVAX   implimentations   perhaps?),   I   get   FALSE   forH     g_float_emulated and TRUE for h_float_emulated.  Nice bit of  trivia     to know.  Thanks!            -Ken --M  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Edu :  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924:  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515N  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------B  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2000 13:10:29 PDTT From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515)% Subject: Re: ??== DCPS 1.8 available. 3 Message-ID: <aRAN7fr$McU1@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>   E In article <aus-1708001042240001@wvia71.virologie.uni-wuerzburg.de>,  3     	aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de (Hans M. Aus) writes: I > Is DCPS 1.8 available yet and where can I find a list of the supported   > printers?   H         Yes, sort of...   Paul  Anderson  of  Compaq,  formerly GENICOM,H     formerly  Digital  :-)  has  said  that V1.8  has  been  shipped  toH     manufacturing (or words to that effect) and will appear on the  nextH     CONDIST.   He  has  also  offered  to make the savesets available to$     people who contact him directly:            	<panderson@genicom.com>  -     FWIW, I'm running V1.8 on my cluster now.   H         List of supported printers?  I  don't  have the SPD to hand.  Is6     there a particular printer you'd be interested in?             -Ken --  M  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Edu :  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924:  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515N  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------B  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:36:58 -0700 / From: Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com> , Subject: RE: ASCII control characters in DCLM Message-ID: <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213026FDEEC@seantexch.unitedad.com>    Ok Hoff what's the book? and it better not be   "Writing real programs in DCL".    Terry      -----Original Message-----# From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam & [mailto:hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam]( Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 10:23 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com , Subject: Re: ASCII control characters in DCL      G In article <s99bd098.058@SMTP.HMC.PSU.EDU>, Rudy Reyes <rreyes@psu.edu>  writes: J :Q:  How do you embed ASCII control chars. in building a file in VMS/DCL?. =   K   See the FAQ section "DECW9.  How do I set the title on a DECterm window?"   J :Are there other lexical expressions not listed in the VMS DCL Dictionary?  G   I'm aware of some undocumented itemcodes, but can't off-hand think of ?   any particularly useful undocumented DCL lexical functions...   J   I can suggest a pretty good book on DCL programming, but I'm biased. :-)  2  --------------------------- pure personal opinion --------------------------- L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 15:03:42 -0400 4 From: "Bochnik, William J" <BochnikWJ@bernstein.com>, Subject: RE: ASCII control characters in DCLJ Message-ID: <2B37459189B0D211BE710000F8EF9D850566826C@nts0147.beehive.com>  J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0087D.DCC3DB32  Content-Type: text/plain;  	charset="iso-8859-1"   + The orig. poster mentioned "DCL Dictionary"    -----Original Message-----6 From: Terry Marosites [mailto:TMarosites@unitedad.com] Sent: August 17, 2000 2:37 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com , Subject: RE: ASCII control characters in DCL     Ok Hoff what's the book? and it better not be   "Writing real programs in DCL".    Terry      -----Original Message-----# From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam & [mailto:hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam]( Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 10:23 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com , Subject: Re: ASCII control characters in DCL      G In article <s99bd098.058@SMTP.HMC.PSU.EDU>, Rudy Reyes <rreyes@psu.edu>  writes: J :Q:  How do you embed ASCII control chars. in building a file in VMS/DCL?. =   K   See the FAQ section "DECW9.  How do I set the title on a DECterm window?"   J :Are there other lexical expressions not listed in the VMS DCL Dictionary?  G   I'm aware of some undocumented itemcodes, but can't off-hand think of ?   any particularly useful undocumented DCL lexical functions...   J   I can suggest a pretty good book on DCL programming, but I'm biased. :-)  2  --------------------------- pure personal opinion --------------------------- L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com      ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0087D.DCC3DB32  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1"   1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">  <HTML> <HEAD>H <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">H <META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2651.65">2 <TITLE>RE: ASCII control characters in DCL</TITLE> </HEAD>  <BODY>  L <P><FONT SIZE=2>The orig. poster mentioned &quot;DCL Dictionary&quot;</FONT> </P>  1 <P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> { <BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Terry Marosites [<A HREF="mailto:TMarosites@unitedad.com">mailto:TMarosites@unitedad.com</A>]</FONT> 5 <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: August 17, 2000 2:37 PM</FONT> 1 <BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com</FONT> D <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: RE: ASCII control characters in DCL</FONT> </P> <BR>  / <P><FONT SIZE=2>Ok Hoff what's the book?</FONT> - <BR><FONT SIZE=2>and it better not be </FONT> A <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&quot;Writing real programs in DCL&quot;.</FONT>  </P>   <P><FONT SIZE=2>Terry </FONT>  </P> <BR>  1 <P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT> ; <BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam</FONT> q <BR><FONT SIZE=2>[<A HREF="mailto:hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam">mailto:hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam</A>]</FONT> @ <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 10:23 AM</FONT>1 <BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com</FONT> D <BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: Re: ASCII control characters in DCL</FONT> </P> <BR> <BR>  j <P><FONT SIZE=2>In article &lt;s99bd098.058@SMTP.HMC.PSU.EDU&gt;, Rudy Reyes &lt;rreyes@psu.edu&gt;</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=2>writes:</FONT> g <BR><FONT SIZE=2>:Q:&nbsp; How do you embed ASCII control chars. in building a file in VMS/DCL?.</FONT>  <BR><FONT SIZE=2>=</FONT>  </P>  v <P><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp; See the FAQ section &quot;DECW9.&nbsp; How do I set the title on a DECterm window?&quot;</FONT> </P>  a <P><FONT SIZE=2>:Are there other lexical expressions not listed in the VMS DCL Dictionary?</FONT>  </P>  c <P><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp; I'm aware of some undocumented itemcodes, but can't off-hand think of</FONT> \ <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp; any particularly useful undocumented DCL lexical functions...</FONT> </P>  f <P><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp; I can suggest a pretty good book on DCL programming, but I'm biased. :-)</FONT> </P>  N <P><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;--------------------------- pure personal opinion</FONT>3 <BR><FONT SIZE=2>---------------------------</FONT>  <BR><FONT SIZE=2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman&nbsp;&nbsp; OpenVMS Engineering&nbsp;&nbsp; hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com</FONT> </P> <BR>   </BODY>  </HTML> ) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0087D.DCC3DB32--    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:23:04 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> , Subject: Re: ASCII control characters in DCL+ Message-ID: <399C499A.2239354@videotron.ca>    Hoff Hoffman wrote: M >   See the FAQ section "DECW9.  How do I set the title on a DECterm window?"   
 Dear God !  2 I beleive you have made a grave error in the FAQ !   In the first part:8 To set the DECterm title, send <Esc>]21;text label<Esc>\  4 but later on, you provide DCL code which uses <esc>[  % And I thought god was infaillible...    L And if god doesn't even know the difference between a [ and a ],  then it isE truly a miracle of galactic proportions that god was able to build an + operating system that works :-) :-) :-) :-)    ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2000 22:17:43 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman), Subject: Re: ASCII control characters in DCL6 Message-ID: <8nhoa7$3ja$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  [ In article <399C499A.2239354@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  :Hoff Hoffman wrote:N :>   See the FAQ section "DECW9.  How do I set the title on a DECterm window?" ..3 :I beleive you have made a grave error in the FAQ !   G   I could make excuses, or I could post a corrected edition of the FAQ. F   (And given I was about to post the FAQ, this fix just made it in...)   	--   M In article <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213026FDEEC@seantexch.unitedad.com>, ) Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com>    :Ok Hoff what's the book? 5 :and it better not be "Writing real programs in DCL".   H   The second edition, actually...  The sections on Bit-Field AssignmentsF   and Terminal Control Sequences cover this topic and several related C   topics and variations.  But, as I stated earlier, I'm biased. :-)     N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 18:26:19 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> , Subject: Re: ASCII control characters in DCL, Message-ID: <399C6674.45F42383@videotron.ca>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: I >   I could make excuses, or I could post a corrected edition of the FAQ. H >   (And given I was about to post the FAQ, this fix just made it in...)  5 My Faith in VMS and in god has just been restored :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:18:20 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> , Subject: Re: ASCII control characters in DCL, Message-ID: <399C80AD.A795C1CD@videotron.ca>  I I am trying to define a key to update the decwindows title to contain the   current node, device, directory.  L However, to be totally "independant", I should not rely on any symbols being defined for it to work.    So, in the  > $DEFINE/KEY/TERMINATE/NOECHO F6 WRITE SYS$OUTPUT etc etc etc,   V I would need to have a way to produce the escape character without relying on symbols.  M Now, I know of ways around this (and someone posted a clever way of using two ) f$fao to do this). But it made me wonder:   J 	Would it be possible for the VMS engineers to add a special FAO directiveG (similar to the ones generating a tab etc) which would generate the ESC H character ? (or better yet, one which can generate any character given a numeric value ?)   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Aug 2000 01:14:10 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman), Subject: Re: ASCII control characters in DCL6 Message-ID: <8ni2l2$4s1$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  \ In article <399C80AD.A795C1CD@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:B :	Would it be possible for the VMS engineers to add a special FAO K :directive (similar to the ones generating a tab etc) which would generate   :the ESC character ?  F   Possible?  Yes.  Likely?  No, certainly not in the immediate future.E   At the earliest, this could not be reasonably made available until  G   an OpenVMS release after V7.3 -- V7.3 has closed to most source code  C   changes.  Would the invocation of a simple DCL procedure suffice?   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 01:20:24 GMT - From: "Dave Pampreen" <davepampreen@home.com>  Subject: Berkley Cruise info9 Message-ID: <sb0n5.2413$QW4.48258@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com>   + http://www.berkleycruisefest.com/events.htm    Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:52:50 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)7 Subject: Re: bizarre disappearing mouse pointer problem L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1708002352500001@user-2ive70t.dialup.mindspring.com>  Z In article <8nh7vu$u8$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam wrote:  H >   Ok, I'll be a little more direct.  I saw this problem myself, I thenI >   upgraded and ECOd the configuration, and I saw the problem was fixed. I >   As I applied a whole lot of stuff together (while rolling the OpenVMS J >   Alpha configuration forward), I don't know specifically what fixed it.  E What!!  You mean you didn't make an image backup of your system disk  < before you applied each ECO?!?!  What's the world coming to?    :-)   -- P Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.coms   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2000 22:04:51 GMT- From: "Phil Tregoning" <ptregoni@esoc.esa.de>i" Subject: Re: Caching RMS Block I/O= Message-ID: <01c00895$77277dc0$4b53b083@ptregoni.esoc.esa.de>o  5 David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in articlei$ <399B69C9.8C18E98E@tsoft-inc.com>... > K > Your original post did say that any modifications of the code were not anr > option.  I'd ask why?d  > Well that is what I have been told. The application was custom6 written under contract, and is based on some quite old; software. Obviously it could be re-written and re-verified,i> (and if file formats change that would have to include all the: other parts that use these files), but that would cost too: much; i.e. more than any hardware or caching software fix.  J > I am puzzled with the copy problem.  Copy can move any file on VMS.  The onlyJ > way I would understand is if your files are created with attributes thatI > indicate the file should be copied as records, and a block I/O file, ato least on& > VMS, is defined somewhat as follows:  @ [SNIP example DIR/FILL of sequential fixed 512 byte record file]  C In truth I was speaking from memory. I've just had another look anduD found all of the files are variable length Fortran carriage control,C and do copy OK (mind you, utilities like DIFF still fail). I'm suree@ I had copy failing in the past, but I can't find an example now.  B > However, if you can get a file caching product that will provide
 sufficientD > improvement, that's probably going to be your cheapest and easiest	 solution.y  < Yep. I think I've got enough to be going on with now. I will< investigate the various caching products suggested, and if I7 have any more problems or questions, I'll post a again.M  & Thanks for your (and everyone's) time.   Phil T     ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 00:00:08 GMT  From: mindphaser23@my-deja.com Subject: CD-RW with VMS 5.5?) Message-ID: <8nhu9v$5e2$1@nnrp1.deja.com>a  / Does anyone know of any CD-RW drives that wouldu$ work in a Vax 4000-90 using VMS 5.5?    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 00:01:48 GMTr From: davidk@awirnd.comr Subject: CD-RW with VMS 5.5?) Message-ID: <8nhud3$5ft$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   E Does anyone know of any CD-RW drives that work in a VAX 4000-90 usinga* VMS 5.5? Any configuration considerations?    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:06:05 -0400A- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>f4 Subject: Re: Cluster transaction processing paradigm, Message-ID: <399C45A0.3E7B8EBC@videotron.ca>   jlsue wrote:H > Lock manager and server processes can be used to communicate data, and > notify if one dies.u  L You're right. I guess all servers would have all the smarts in the code, butJ only one would activate the transaction routing aspect and act as a masterF server. And should it die, the next server would get the lock and thenL activate its master logic. The trick would be in re-directing the clients to the new master server.  N (If a process dies, but not the node, I can't rely on lower stacks to redirectR the transactions, but I guess a cluster-wide logical name could be used for that).  H And I guess that satellite servers would be notified of the death of theN master since their permanent data link (ICC) would be broken with it, and thenC they would try to re-establish connection to the new master server.   E That sounds fairly simple and robust enough. I am of the "KISS" type.     D > The batch method I discussed previously could be setup to do this.C > Each remote partner can have its own generic batch queue, and the.A > execution queue on its "home" node can have a larger job limit.P  N Yes, I have considered using the queue system. Probably write a "server queue"M symbiont. The problem with this is that if one node is currently connected tovG one service and busy sending 25 transactions, and a 26th transaction is.I received for that same service, then I want to be able to queue that 26th G transaction to that server since it is already connected and that extra H transaction is "free" (no wasted time is awakening modem, dialing, doingQ initial handshake, all of which take longer than sending the transaction itself).p  L But if the server has already received 30 transactions to send, then it paysM to deliver the 31st transaction to another server which can begin the dial-up H process right away, before the first one has finished sending its batch.  C I don't think that the VMS queue system is really suited for that. e  E > However, the DNS load balancing can be setup to let the initial webp4 > connect go the the system with the highest rating.  M In my case, the efficiency is not so much at the client level, but at the way G the server groups received transactions and sends them during one modemCI connection. So, it is probably easier and simpler to have a single server-Y receive all transactions and distribute them efficiently to other servers for processing.n  K In other words, to acheive higher throughput, what is needed is intelligent K sending of transactions over the modem (and in the future, other connectionc methods). I my case anyways.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:02:26 -0400n- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>t" Subject: Re: dose vms run on intel. Message-ID: <spokmgmtr5j30@corp.supernews.com>  " Zane H. Healy wrote in message ... >... >GACK, I just found the prices:c8 > The CHARON-VAX MicroVAX emulator for Windows ~$5900.003 > CHARON-VAXstation Lite for Windows      ~$1900.00a >rF >The Lite version has everything I want, but when you toss in the cost of aA >laptop....  Since this would be for Hobbyist use, I don't see me  spending >that kind of money.  ...   D For Hobbyist use the product is free. You don't get a Network deviceF with the hobbyist version but as long as you have Kermit you (assumingA your requirements are the same as mine) don't need a network. Thef> current hobbyist version does say that it will stop running on= 1-JAN-2001, but there will be newer versions out before that.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 00:42:22 -0400n* From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>" Subject: Re: dose vms run on intel+ Message-ID: <399CBEAD.B0722D91@rtfmcsi.com>-   David A Froble wrote:-   > "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >4M > > OUCH, I just read up on their $490 full evaluation package.  For the low,CO > > low price of $490 you can get a evaluation kit that includes the networking6O > > code turned on, and is limited to a 6 week period.  Since when do companiesd& > > have to pay to evaluate something! > >o" > > GACK, I just found the prices:B > >         The CHARON-VAX MicroVAX emulator for Windows ~$5900.00B > >         CHARON-VAXstation Lite for Windows           ~$1900.00 >yR > Looks like we found out where the 1985 to 1995 era marketing people at DEC endedN > up.  I'm sure there are many uses for this product that I haven't thought ofM > yet, but from my perspective, demos and such seem to be it.  Definitely not N > production.  If they charged the $490 for the package, they'd probably get aM > decent number of sales.  Possibly enough quantity to far exceed any revenue R > they'll produce at those prices.  It's VMS being not competitive all over again. >IP > Yes, I understand that the software probably cost quite a bit to develope, andO > the Charon folks are in it for profit.  I just don't think there will be much  > profit at those prices.. >  > Dave  S Looking at similar emulator technology, you can VMWARE (visit http://www.vmware.comoR for info) for $299.00 (USD).  It does a thorough job of emulating a complete IntelO PC that you can use to test other operating systems.  It runs on both Linux and M WinNT/Win2K.  It provides emulation of the CPU, memory, graphics adapter, IDE S controllers & hard drives, SCSI controllers, COM ports, LPT ports and even the BIOSiK itself.  Passthru access to existing hard drives, partitions, file systems,eR CDROM/DVDROM drives, SCSI devices, etc... is supported.  I use it to run a NetWareQ server in a virtual machine on my Win2K laptop when I'm traveling on the road andDT need to do some NetWare client API programming in my hotel room.  It works great andJ allows me to travel with less equipment.  I even discontinued the use of 4Q individual PCs in my development test lab once I implemented VMWare.  Now, if the R production CharonVAX were affordable I'd put it on my laptop, too, and I'd do someT OpenVMS work while I'm on the road.  Or, at least I'd be able to shutdown the MV3100P in my home office and just boot a virtual MV3100 when I actually need to run it.  S If the CharonVAX emulator cannot get down to a price of approximately $500.00 (USD) M or less for a fully functional production version then I don't see how it canoR possibly survive as a product.  At the prices quoted in previous postings it wouldP be cost effective to hunt down and acquire used MicroVAX and VAXstation systems,L especially when one considers the lack lustre performance of the emulator onS existing Wintel systems.  I just got a used MicroVAX 3100 M90 for $350.00 and it isIQ a 24 VUP system.  Per the rating of 1VUP per 100MHz on Wintel, I need a Wintel PC:R with a 2.4GHz CPU to get the same performance with CharonVAX as I get on my MV3100J M90 system.  The best Wintel I can get is about 1GHz today and tops out inQ performance of something around a MV3100 M80 or M85 if I remember the performance P stats correctly.  The emulator must be cost effective when compared to the costs* associated with using actual VAX hardware.  T I'm sure that the software development costs involved in developing VMWare cannot beM too much different than those involved in developing CharonVAX.  Emulation is T emulation is emulation ad infinitum.  There is nothing really tricky or quirky aboutQ the VAX architecture that should make it that much more difficult to emulate thanOR the x86 architecture.  I think that some sort of mis-guided greed factor must haveO crept into the pricing of CharonVAX because it is associated with VMS which has,S always had a price even at the entry-level part of the market.  Sell me an emulator S for $300.00 and an operating system (workstation license) for not more than $200.00g and I'll consider buying it.     -- Chuck Chopp   8 ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com            http://www.rtfmcsi.com0                                   ICQ # 22321532@ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax4 Greer, SC  29651                  800 400 4935 pagerC                                   8004004935@alphapage.airtouch.com1   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:08:59 -06000 From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>i! Subject: Re: Gnome replacing CDE?u' Message-ID: <399C465B.7F55BFF9@srv.net>L  ; Any chance of getting a copy of gtk for VMS from somewhere?w I would like to play with it.    Jordan Henderson wrote:i > 8 > In article <8nea1h$2vd$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>,5 > Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote:  > >tk > >In article <a5km5.25$M62.7990@typhoon.aracnet.com>, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes: I > >:In recent days the word has come out that Compaq, IBM, HP and Sun aredM > >:working together to replace CDE with Gnome.  Does anyone have any news oniK > >:what this means for OpenVMS?  Will CDE on OpenVMS be replaced by Gnome?- > > M > >  AFAIK, there have not yet been any decisions made to upgrade the OpenVMS@K > >  DECwindows X Windows implementations of X11, nor any similar decisionsnN > >  to supplement the existing CDE, Motif and XUI "stuff" (and the associatedK > >  intrinsics and decorations) with Gnome or other newness.  (But as with M > >  most anything else in this business, if enough customers want it and asko > >  for it...)w > D > Fortunately, thanks to the Mozilla porting effort, we have workingF > Gtk for OpenVMS now so at least some of the infrastructure for Gnome > on OpenVMS is in place.e > B > I would like to think that if Compaq is involved in an effort to8 > relace CDE with Gnome that this would include OpenVMS.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Aug 2000 16:59:24 -0400/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)C! Subject: Re: Gnome replacing CDE?l) Message-ID: <8nhjnc$pc$1@lisa.gemair.com>s  ) This was announced here a few weeks back.    You can find it at:e  >    http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/gtk.html  I In article <399C465B.7F55BFF9@srv.net>, Kevin Handy  <kth@srv.net> wrote:-< >Any chance of getting a copy of gtk for VMS from somewhere? >I would like to play with it. >- >Jordan Henderson wrote: >> a9 >> In article <8nea1h$2vd$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>,e6 >> Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote: >> >l >> >In article <a5km5.25$M62.7990@typhoon.aracnet.com>, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes:J >> >:In recent days the word has come out that Compaq, IBM, HP and Sun areN >> >:working together to replace CDE with Gnome.  Does anyone have any news onL >> >:what this means for OpenVMS?  Will CDE on OpenVMS be replaced by Gnome? >> >N >> >  AFAIK, there have not yet been any decisions made to upgrade the OpenVMSL >> >  DECwindows X Windows implementations of X11, nor any similar decisionsO >> >  to supplement the existing CDE, Motif and XUI "stuff" (and the associated L >> >  intrinsics and decorations) with Gnome or other newness.  (But as withN >> >  most anything else in this business, if enough customers want it and ask >> >  for it...) >> RE >> Fortunately, thanks to the Mozilla porting effort, we have workinghG >> Gtk for OpenVMS now so at least some of the infrastructure for Gnomeu >> on OpenVMS is in place. >> vC >> I would like to think that if Compaq is involved in an effort toW9 >> relace CDE with Gnome that this would include OpenVMS.F   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 18:51:39 -0500t) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> < Subject: Hammered Printer - was Re: Hmmmm a strange question. Message-ID: <spoufvia87v10@corp.supernews.com>  < "Helen Rapozo" <helen@hcc.hawaii.education> wrote in message$ news:8nhj3u$lqv$1@news.hawaii.edu... >rI > Those banner characters change from print job to print job.  Don't knowcC > why it does it but to answer your 2nd question.  You can define ar% > system logical called PSM$ANNOUNCE.f  G If they used the same characters everytime, the print hammers for those  characters would get more wear.   4 That is, on printers that still use that technology.   -Johno wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Aug 2000 23:44:19 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)V@ Subject: Re: Hammered Printer - was Re: Hmmmm a strange question+ Message-ID: <8cuVpqbrVDU+@eisner.decus.org>-  Z In article <spoufvia87v10@corp.supernews.com>, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> writes:> > "Helen Rapozo" <helen@hcc.hawaii.education> wrote in message& > news:8nhj3u$lqv$1@news.hawaii.edu... >>J >> Those banner characters change from print job to print job.  Don't knowD >> why it does it but to answer your 2nd question.  You can define a& >> system logical called PSM$ANNOUNCE. > I > If they used the same characters everytime, the print hammers for thoseh! > characters would get more wear.m  ; I try not to contradict people in a confrontational manner,z8 but since John Malmberg is correct 99.44% of the time, I2 get a strange perverse pleasure out of announcing:  0 	The purpose of the changing letters and numbers2 	is to allow the print operator to determine where. 	to separate the fanfold paper to put into the1 	print distribution mailboxes/envelopes/whatever.h  / 	As I recall, either the letters or the numbers , 	change with each new file, while the others  	change with each new print job.  1 	The careful print operator will track one or thel- 	other sequence (depending on whether jobs or - 	files are the local separation standard) ando0 	thus be able to avoid missing one of the proper. 	separation points (and sending some output to 	the wrong person).    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:37:14 +0200P4 From: Ewa Skotnicka <ewa.skotnicka@polkomtel.com.pl>! Subject: Help - Scheduler Problem00 Message-ID: <399C30DA.A3F20BDD@polkomtel.com.pl>   Hi all,r  Z Scheduler process crashed today on my Alpha server with following message in the Event.RPT  P ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^w 17-AUG-2000 13:33:35            SCHED ERROR   ALF2                        Fatal error 35 at line 200 ?Memory managementof                                                                           violation <646> VMSSTATUS=12R ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  . If I try restart it I get the similar message:  L ****************************************************************************# Nsched Version V2.2_990 starting...l' Fatal Error  35  at line  15  IN NSCHED  ?Memory management violation
 VMSSTATUS= 12u% %BAS-F-ILLIO_CHA, Illegal I/O channelOH -BAS-I-FROLINOEG, from line 6000 in error handler at 15 in module NSCHED8   SYSTEM       job terminated at 17-AUG-2000 20:04:24.39     Accounting information:mO   Buffered I/O count:                 76      Peak working set size:       6464hO   Direct I/O count:                   33      Peak virtual size:         174784aO   Page faults:                       619      Mounted volumes:                0 O   Charged CPU time:        0 00:00:00.15      Elapsed time:       0 00:00:00.87 E *********************************************************************o2 server: AlphaServer 8400 5/440 in two node cluster OS:     VMS v.7.2-1   G Has anybody met this kind CA Scheduler  problem and know any remedium ?    Regards, Wiktor! wiktor.karpinski@polkomtel.com.plr   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 18:09:06 -0400 2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>! Subject: Help - Scheduler Problemw7 Message-ID: <200008171809_MC2-B021-CB0C@compuserve.com>   J         This is a programming error of some sort in the Scheduler.  There=  H is nothing you can do to fix it. (Unless you have the source code!)   IfJ you have a CA support contract, report the problem to them.  If not, buy = aaJ better product!  I can recommend the JAMS scheduler from Argent Software.=    % Message text written by Ewa SkotnickaD > =r   Hi all,o  J Scheduler process crashed today on my Alpha server with following message=   in the Event.RPT  J ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^= ^^ ^^^^^ J 17-AUG-2000 13:33:35            SCHED ERROR   ALF2                       =  - Fatal error 35 at line 200 ?Memory managementeJ                                                                          =   violation <646> VMSSTATUS=3D12J ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^= ^^ ^^^^^^^   . If I try restart it I get the similar message:  J *************************************************************************= ** * # Nsched Version V2.2_990 starting...c' Fatal Error  35  at line  15  IN NSCHEDe ?Memory management violation VMSSTATUS=3D 12 % %BAS-F-ILLIO_CHA, Illegal I/O channel H -BAS-I-FROLINOEG, from line 6000 in error handler at 15 in module NSCHED8   SYSTEM       job terminated at 17-AUG-2000 20:04:24.39     Accounting information:sJ   Buffered I/O count:                 76      Peak working set size:     =  =   6464I   Direct I/O count:                   33      Peak virtual size:        =e   174784J   Page faults:                       619      Mounted volumes:           =   =o     0aC   Charged CPU time:        0 00:00:00.15      Elapsed time:       0  00:00:00.87pE *********************************************************************e2 server: AlphaServer 8400 5/440 in two node cluster OS:     VMS v.7.2-1m  G Has anybody met this kind CA Scheduler  problem and know any remedium ?r   Regards, Wiktor! wiktor.karpinski@polkomtel.com.plo   <d   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Aug 2000 15:57:18 -0500* From: kuhrt@eisner.decus.org (Marty Kuhrt); Subject: Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CDt+ Message-ID: <v$H27NpUaBgz@eisner.decus.org>r  K In article <399B1800.1F675DBB@vrx.net>, Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net> writes:i > "D.Webb" wrote:d > C >> Given that so many other operating systems are going open-sourcecM >> eg Solaris - see http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/source/overview.html.dK >> Isn't it time for Compaq to review the price of the VMS source listings.e > ; > long overdue, unfortunately won't help me though. sigh...n > ? >> $2000 plus a $790/yr update cost is much much too expensive.s >  > You're not kidding!  >  > B. >   A Really?  Last time I looked into the cost of getting sources for  : NT, it was (IIRC) >$1 million in escrow, and even then you" wouldn't have _all_ the sources.    = Linux, Sun and the other unices can give away source, becausei "it's just unix", right?    A If I read the Solaris 8 "open source" page correctly, you can use D the sources, but you have to license through Sun if you want to sell> anything you did with them.  There's no similar restriction inA VMS.  Use the sources, write a product, then sell it; no "Compaq,a May I" involved.    ? Of course, the model is slightly different.  With the exceptionw? of VMS engineering, no one recompiles the VMS kernel.  The same1% can't be said for those in unixland. e   ------------------------------    Date: 17 Aug 2000 17:07:10 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) ; Subject: Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD + Message-ID: <tAGAnxEOVKfI@eisner.decus.org>0  K In article <399B5A13.A4FF1D80@vrx.net>, Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net> writes:o; > "Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515" wrote:  > K >>         Too expensive for  whom/what?   There  are  licensing  issues inaK >>     addition to (the minimum cost of) creating and distributing the CDs. K >>     I'd  think  the cost barrier would aid keeping the listings  in  theuK >>     hands of "serious" people, as opposed to the kiddie  generation  whofK >>     doesn't  even  understand  basic copyright issues!  Certainly $2K is K >>     not a barrier to anyone _needing_  the  listings in order to do code-G >>     development that requires internals knowlege _and_ the listings.k > 1 > hah! give me a break. $2k is way too expensive. P > I want to learn, to read and understand. I was even going to do a paper on it,0 > but not with people with attitudes like yours! > K >>         Just because a hobbiest/high schooler  can't afford the listingsa0 >>     doesn't mean they should be given away... > T > I'm in university you dope! I guess you don't remember what that's like. No money,R > and no way to get this stuff unless someone is very nice, even just a short-term > loan.   > So what is wrong with the University buying the subscription ?  B For them to teach operating systems, I would think they would need  diverse examples, not just Unix.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 21:03:39 GMT ! From: Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net>u; Subject: Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CDo' Message-ID: <399C5333.F6B565DC@vrx.net>I   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  @ > So what is wrong with the University buying the subscription ? >lD > For them to teach operating systems, I would think they would need" > diverse examples, not just Unix.  : hahaahahaha.... hahahaah... oh, sorry, you were serious...  U the university doesn't even know what "vms" is any more. it's all NT and some sparcs, * even a few SGI machines. VMS? what's that?   B.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 22:36:36 GMTo= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)0; Subject: Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CDl0 Message-ID: <009EEC02.89F6A339@SendSpamHere.ORG>  K In article <399C5333.F6B565DC@vrx.net>, Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net> writes:U >Larry Kilgallen wrote:r >DA >> So what is wrong with the University buying the subscription ?t >>E >> For them to teach operating systems, I would think they would needt# >> diverse examples, not just Unix.d >e; >hahaahahaha.... hahahaah... oh, sorry, you were serious...a > V >the university doesn't even know what "vms" is any more. it's all NT and some sparcs,+ >even a few SGI machines. VMS? what's that?   = Many don't.  Many don't, IMHO, even teach "computer science".   D Occasionally, I get a mail or FAX from a college/university student @ looking for a job after graduation.  The resumes are pathetic.           Wanda WhatdidilearnI   2469 Anytimeand Placeo   Myhometown, XX 00000       Career Objectives   D   A career where I can use my vast knowledge of computer systems to C   make lots of money but not have to really know anything of use tofD   anybody about computers, programming, or networking.  I am a self-D   starter and team-player with asperations to attain a management orD   supervisory position in the first six months of employment and get    company "perks" out the wazoo.       Experience     Past to Presenta  D   I am capable of personal hygene and I was able to make it to class   on-time several days a week.       Grade Point Averageg      [1]   4.0          Special Knowledge3  ?   The Alphabet and names of all of the characters on "Friends".        Programming Languagesn  A   Micro$oft Word, Micro$oft XL, Micro$oft Visual Basic, Micro$oftCB   C, Micro$oft Visual C, Micro$oft Visual C++, Micro$oft Exchange,A   Micro$oft Office, Micro$oft IIS, Micro$oft FrontPage, Micro$oftoB   Exploiter, Micro$oft HTML, Micro$oft Java, Micro$oft JavaScript,   Micro$oft Pig-Latin        References  6   The Encyclopedia, Dictionary, Poor Richard's Almanac    ? [1]  Does not factor in classes which were not held in the gym.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMa   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:48:48 GMTt2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>; Subject: Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CDt5 Message-ID: <AR_m5.137$M62.51900@typhoon.aracnet.com>m  3 Robert Deininger <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote:gJ > I&DS is the "Internals and Data Structures" book.  It has been publishedO > several times, covering different versions of (Open)VMS Vax and Alpha.  Since M > VMS hasn't changed all that much, you would do well with any version of the'A > book, and there's quite a bit of overlap between Vax and Alpha.c  J > The two I have are certainly out of print, but you might find them used:  K You can often find used copies at http://www.powells.com though considering J I've not gotten around to picking up a copy maybe I shouldn't mention thatK URL :^)  If you're ever in the Portland, Oregon area I recommend stoping inaL at the Powells Technical Bookstore.  It's quite literally the best technicalH bookstore I've ever been able to find, and they often have a semi-decent6 selection of VMS books (usually 3-10 different books).   			Zaneo   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Aug 2000 01:06:53 GMT' From: dashw459@aol.comeatspam (Doug W.) ; Subject: Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD : Message-ID: <20000817210653.18095.00000184@ng-ba1.aol.com>   << Larry Kilgallen wrote:.  @ > So what is wrong with the University buying the subscription ? > D > For them to teach operating systems, I would think they would need" > diverse examples, not just Unix.  : hahaahahaha.... hahahaah... oh, sorry, you were serious...  M the university doesn't even know what "vms" is any more. it's all NT and some  sparcs,K* even a few SGI machines. VMS? what's that?  >>p  L In my experience, fresh graduates will do anything to minimize their contactO with VMS.  If you want a future for VMS, this is a serious problem.  I am happy O to to see anyone who wants to learn about VMS.  Its sad that there are not manyu. willing to help and some are outright hostile.  L I'll offer the same deal as BS.  Show a license and a 7.1 CD is yours.  I'llK need a mailing address.  If your interested I can scrounge up some outdated J manuals, some old AXP books and I'll look for an old copy of the internals book.   O I don't care what Compaq charges for their CDs.  Its their product.  As for the N information contained on them, it should be posted on the Internet.  HopefullyM with some kind of index and links to example programs showing how to have fun G or hack VMS.  By the way, the CD is definitely the wrong place to startc
 learning VMS.s  K At the moment,  gaining VMS converts should be far more important to Compaqn. than collecting CD subscription money.           ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 03:03:34 GMT-! From: Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net>g; Subject: Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD-' Message-ID: <399CA7A0.F9B2589A@vrx.net>r  Q I've done all I can. I'm not going to work on this issue any longer. it's far took exhausting.   R I even called up Compaq, and they will NOT give me anything in writing saying it'sP ok to borrow a CD from someone, regardless if I have a license or not. Even if IP have the fiche listing of the SAME version that I'm looking for on CD. They just can't do this, no matter what.  P So thanks to all that tried to help (you know who you are) and for those who areL working on getting me a CD, keep trying, and for those who asked me for infoR (proof of ownership) I'll get it to you as soon as I get my scanner plugged in. :)   Thanks to all.   B.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 03:01:10 GMTd! From: Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net>n; Subject: Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD,' Message-ID: <399CA711.8F82B16D@vrx.net>>   "Doug W." wrote:  N > In my experience, fresh graduates will do anything to minimize their contactQ > with VMS.  If you want a future for VMS, this is a serious problem.  I am happy Q > to to see anyone who wants to learn about VMS.  Its sad that there are not many 0 > willing to help and some are outright hostile.   definitely.-  N > I'll offer the same deal as BS.  Show a license and a 7.1 CD is yours.  I'llM > need a mailing address.  If your interested I can scrounge up some outdatedaL > manuals, some old AXP books and I'll look for an old copy of the internals > book.c  0 I'll scan in a couple of pages of fiche for you. and maybe some other stuff.   Q > I don't care what Compaq charges for their CDs.  Its their product.  As for theeP > information contained on them, it should be posted on the Internet.  HopefullyO > with some kind of index and links to example programs showing how to have funoI > or hack VMS.  By the way, the CD is definitely the wrong place to startl > learning VMS.l  4 perhaps, but that's not the point to this excercise.G I just had a thought actually... maybe someone here will pick up on it.d  S Linux supports just about every filesystem known to man. It can read and write justaQ about every hard drive from every OS on the planet. HPFS, NT, Dos, Win95/98, even76 Apple (MAC), OS/2, Solaris, SCO, BSD, and even Amiga !  J If it has this much power, and all the code is there to look at, I've beenE wondering why can't Linux at least READ a Vax or Alpha (VMS) volume ?cS It should be technically possible, the ground work should all be there already, but2P I don't really know, see, I haven't been able to look at the source listings yet (blatant plug!)   M > At the moment,  gaining VMS converts should be far more important to Compaqe( > than collecting CD subscription money.  I true. and they don't even press real CDs any more, it's now CDRs ? wow...t   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 04:29:41 GMTe2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>; Subject: Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CDd5 Message-ID: <VY2n5.144$M62.55793@typhoon.aracnet.com>n  " Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net> wrote:L > If it has this much power, and all the code is there to look at, I've beenG > wondering why can't Linux at least READ a Vax or Alpha (VMS) volume ?aU > It should be technically possible, the ground work should all be there already, butpR > I don't really know, see, I haven't been able to look at the source listings yet > (blatant plug!)n  J I'm not sure, but I think a couple different people have added the abilityL to read ODS-2 volumes to Linux in the past, however, I don't think it's madeI it into the kernel.  I just did a very quick search, and only turned up a2 couple of dead links.   L OTOH, I just export the volume via NFS if I want to be able to read it from  Linux.  :^)e  
 			   Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:15:16 -0700^/ From: Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com> ! Subject: Hmmmm a strange question M Message-ID: <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213026FDEEB@seantexch.unitedad.com>    Best read at width 132  
 Hello all,  J    We have some large printers and sometimes they start printing garbage (. Greek to us).  While trying to research where 1 this Greek starts I noticed the banner like this:*  
 FFFFFFFFFFL 2222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222) 222222222222222222222222222     FFFFFFFFFCK FFFFFFFFFF     2222222222222222222  Digital Equipment Corporation - OpenVMS 8 Alpha Version v7.1-2  22222222222222222222     FFFFFFFFF
 FFFFFFFFFFL 2222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222) 222222222222222222222222222     FFFFFFFFFc  L I also noticed that it changes. My first thought is, If it changes , it must4 mean something , So what does the F and 2 stand for.H The "F" part in the above example seems to be always a Character and the6 other part (the 2s) a number (0-9). My 2nd thought is K how do I change the  "Digital Equipment Corporation - OpenVMS Alpha Version*4 v7.1-2 " to something else preferably at print time.   Inquisitive Terry  w   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:50:47 -1000l+ From: "Helen Rapozo" <helen@hcc.hawaii.edu>d% Subject: Re: Hmmmm a strange questionc* Message-ID: <8nhj3u$lqv$1@news.hawaii.edu>  ) Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com>  >cI > I also noticed that it changes. My first thought is, If it changes , itw must6 > mean something , So what does the F and 2 stand for.J > The "F" part in the above example seems to be always a Character and the7 > other part (the 2s) a number (0-9). My 2nd thought isoE > how do I change the  "Digital Equipment Corporation - OpenVMS Alpha  Version 6 > v7.1-2 " to something else preferably at print time.  G Those banner characters change from print job to print job.  Don't knowkA why it does it but to answer your 2nd question.  You can define a # system logical called PSM$ANNOUNCE.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:39:44 -0400^- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>5% Subject: Re: Hmmmm a strange question , Message-ID: <399C5B8C.61038AD0@videotron.ca>   Terry Marosites wrote:L >    We have some large printers and sometimes they start printing garbage (/ > Greek to us).  While trying to research where^3 > this Greek starts I noticed the banner like this:^  J If the printers are connected through serial lines, you might want to makeL tests with a terminal (or PC with emulator on) to capture what is being sent to the serial line.   ( I assume those are postscript printers ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:22:23 -0700e3 From: Jeff Coffield <Jeffrey@DigitalSynergyInc.com> % Subject: Re: Hmmmm a strange question 5 Message-ID: <399C81BF.369FC28E@DigitalSynergyInc.com>    Terry Marosites wrote:   > Best read at width 132 >  > Hello all, > L >    We have some large printers and sometimes they start printing garbage (/ > Greek to us).  While trying to research where 3 > this Greek starts I noticed the banner like this:  >u > FFFFFFFFFFN > 2222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222+ > 222222222222222222222222222     FFFFFFFFF*M > FFFFFFFFFF     2222222222222222222  Digital Equipment Corporation - OpenVMSi: > Alpha Version v7.1-2  22222222222222222222     FFFFFFFFF > FFFFFFFFFFN > 2222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222+ > 222222222222222222222222222     FFFFFFFFF- >-N > I also noticed that it changes. My first thought is, If it changes , it must6 > mean something , So what does the F and 2 stand for.J > The "F" part in the above example seems to be always a Character and the7 > other part (the 2s) a number (0-9). My 2nd thought isrM > how do I change the  "Digital Equipment Corporation - OpenVMS Alpha Versionr6 > v7.1-2 " to something else preferably at print time. >m > Inquisitive Terryr  N The number and the letter change with each print job so if you are looking for banner pages and you seeM AAAA... , BBBB..., DDDD.... you know there is a CCCC in between the B  and D.0 The repeated numberc& does the same thing going from 0 to 9.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:58:59 -0400t2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)% Subject: Re: Hmmmm a strange questionvL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1708002358590001@user-2ive70t.dialup.mindspring.com>  ~ In article <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213026FDEEB@seantexch.unitedad.com>, Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com> wrote:   > FFFFFFFFFFN > 2222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222+ > 222222222222222222222222222     FFFFFFFFFeM > FFFFFFFFFF     2222222222222222222  Digital Equipment Corporation - OpenVMSd: > Alpha Version v7.1-2  22222222222222222222     FFFFFFFFF > FFFFFFFFFFN > 2222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222+ > 222222222222222222222222222     FFFFFFFFFA > N > I also noticed that it changes. My first thought is, If it changes , it must6 > mean something , So what does the F and 2 stand for.  L One of these is incremented for each print job, and the other is incrementedE for each file within a job.  So they won't move in unison if yo printL multi-file jobs.   -- 6 Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comf   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 00:11:10 GMTh2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>E Subject: Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS systems (was Re: dose vms run on intel) 5 Message-ID: <ya%m5.138$M62.52706@typhoon.aracnet.com>t  3 Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote:nQ > :You'll also probably want to avoid VAX 4000's (note, I did not say VAXstation,eN > :VAXstation 4000's are very nice).  Of course personally I'd love a VAX 4000 > :to replace my MicroVAX 3 :^)t  M >   Um, those are Q-bus systems, and included in my earlier recommendation...,  J Exactly :^)  What can I say, I might not be the normal Hobbyist, as my MV3G has both a KDA50 and a RLV12 controller in it and the drives to go withtF those controllers.  So for me a VAX 4000 w/Q-Bus would be very nice.    H For that matter I'm threatening to bring a VAXstation II/RC back on-lineK just for the fun of it, since I finally have room to set it up with the bigeK monitor.  My only question is, do I want to go with a RD54 HD, or switch ithK to ESDI or SCSI :^)  And yes, since I also own a PWS433au, I'm a sick puppy,1 for messing with crusty old systems like this :^)o  	 			  Zane    ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2000 20:12:08 PDT* From: abuse@flying-disk.com (Alan Frisbie)E Subject: Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS systems (was Re: dose vms run on intel) ! Message-ID: <X4ontGTe9M3+@flying>r  6 In article <ya%m5.138$M62.52706@typhoon.aracnet.com>, 4 "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes:  J > For that matter I'm threatening to bring a VAXstation II/RC back on-line > just for the fun of it,   B I'm typing this right now on my old VAXstation II/RC!   Of course,B it has had the obligatory backplane transplant (Hi, Charlie!), but1 this old CPU is still carrying on after 13 years.-  H > ... I'm a sick puppy for messing with crusty old systems like this :^)   Arf!   -- .B --  Alan E. Frisbie             Frisbie "AT" Flying-Disk "DOT" Com@ --  Flying Disk Systems, Inc.   Abuse "AT" Flying-Disk "DOT" Com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 01:40:08 -0400r' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>eG Subject: Re: Is there an OpenVMS success story about this? -- Follow upt( Message-ID: <8nii3v$bm4$1@pyrite.mv.net>  7 Francoise Becker <francoise@lsoft.com> wrote in messaget' news:0FZG00D2K5GOIT@mx.west.saic.com...a   ...,  C > I just thought you would all like to know that shortly thereaftertF > (coincidentally -- I don't think it was as a result of this thread),G > Compaq *did* approach us and they made not only a glossy brochure butu > also a video.  >a > The brochure is at:o: > http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvms/brochures/l-soft/ >eC > and we will have a booth at the CETS2000 conference where we willrD > show the video. If you will be at the conference and you'd like toG > see the video, stop by and say hi and we'll be happy to show it. It'se > about 3 minutes long.n >b > Francoiseo  L It is a nice brochure, but it leaves me wondering about something you postedE a while ago (I don't know exactly when - the copy below was quoted intJ someone else's response, dated March 14th) which makes it appear that thisL 'VMS success story' is both out-dated and a potential source of embarassmentK if questioned too closely (though the brochure's very careful wording, whencJ viewed in this light, could be considered technically accurate even though grossly misleading).   - bill  7 Francoise Becker <francoise@lsoft.com> wrote in message" news:229878429@MVB.SAIC.COM...   ...n   > The page you pointed out: - > http://www.lsoft.com/products/ease_plum.aspcE > is slightly outdated. We still heavily rely on OpenVMS for reliable E > uptime, so the page is still mostly accurate, but if you follow thec$ > link to our delivery records page:4 > http://www.lsoft.com/ease-stats/records-today.htmlD > you will note that the *records* are no longer held by the OpenVMS# > machines but by a Tru64 Unix box.n >hC > The Tru64 box, LIME, is an AlphaServer 1200, just like the 2 main-> > OpenVMS boxes, except that it only has one CPU versus 2 CPUs > in GRAPE.  >,= > So this is more an Alpha success story than an OpenVMS one.lG > The alpha is wonderfully fast, and that's why we're able to get thoseC? > kinds of delivery records out of those boxes. But OpenVMS haseA > some unfortunate limitations.  I have to cringe as I write thistF > because I'm a bit of a VMS bigot. The first limitation we ran across4 > was in UCX. UCX 4.2, instead of using VMS's memory4 > management routines, apparently had its own memoryB > management routines, which imposed a hard limit on the amount of; > memory we could use. So even though the Alpha chips couldeD > handle much faster throughput, we were forced to put a throttle on> > it because of UCX's artificial limitations. We complained toD > Compaq, and they were kind enough to include us in field tests forB > VMS 7.2, which included UCX 5.0, a complete re-write -- really a= > port of the Unix TCP/IP stack, and which did not have theset > limitations. >t9 > But then we ran across the other slow-down: RMS. RMS is @ > wonderful in some ways, but it's slow. When we ported LSMTP toB > Tru64, we discovered that Tru64, with its more light-weight fileA > management system could process the mail deliveries much faster 7 > than the VMS systems, so it is now the record-holder.g > A > So we are now keeping a watchful eye on Compaq's directions. IfL= > Tru64 really gets into *true* VMS-type clustering, we wouldyD > probably move from OpenVMS to Tru64 Unix for our critical servers.B > On the other hand, if RMS improves, we would probably stick with? > OpenVMS. On the other hand, if some other player comes on thehG > field (a reliable NT? a fast Sun?) that blows both of them out of themC > water, we might go in a different direction altogether. WhichevermH > way we move, it will be to improve our services, taking all facts intoC > account; not because Francoise thinks VMS is really cool, and notI? > because of a pronouncement by some technologically challengeda8 > CEO under the influence of the latest article he read. >i > Francoise  > francoise@lsoft.come >a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:51:53 -0400 4 From: "John L Ferguson" <John.L.Ferguson@compaq.com>% Subject: Re: Java support on OpenVMS?o6 Message-ID: <8nh8r6$11a$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  , Another try to insure the right URL for JDBC  L http://www.attunity.com/content/newsevents/detail.asp?catid=6&scatid=20&o=10 7&y=01/01/2000&h=1   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:47:13 -0400v' From: David Beatty <dabeat@wnt.sas.com>i% Subject: Re: Java support on OpenVMS? 2 Message-ID: <ASWcOejEb=zJ08wxmfPthDvqBZ7a@4ax.com>  A Look at http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/internetworks.html.i  / On Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:30:10 -0400, Chuck Chopp- <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com> wrote:3  3 >What amount of support exists in OpenVMS for Java?R >HC >Is there a Java VM?  If yes, what version of Java does it support?. >2I >Is anybody producing Java development tools for OpenVMS or does all JavaaG >development have to be done on another platform and then the byte-codee >gets moved to OpenVMS?n >n@ >Is there any support for accessing system services and RTL's orF >functions in user-written shareable images from Java apps on OpenVMS? >rH >Is there any JDBC support in OpenVMS to allow Java applications to have6 >access to databases on OpenVMS or on other platforms? >r >aD >I've done a lot of software development work on OpenVMS with C/C++,I >Fortran, COBOL, Pascal and a little bit of ADA over the past 15 years oroF >so, but I've recently started working with Java for work on apps thatG >run on NetWare and Linux.  I'm working on an application that I'd likeoD >to have a portion of it run on OpenVMS, NetWare, Linux and possiblyG >WinNT/Win2K.  I'm hoping that I can do this in Java but I'll fall backrE >on C++ if necessary.  I'm asking these questions because I've reallye1 >heard very little about Java support in OpenVMS.o >M >t >TIA,a >r >Chuck   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2000 12:54:14 GMT( From: kittychim@sinagirl.com (Christine)? Subject: lucky7.to - What a lucky Free URL Redirection Service!', Message-ID: <8ngn9m$kn0$21@news.ctimail.com>  6 lucky7.to - What a lucky Free URL Redirection Service!  8 If the URL of your homepage is too long and too complex,/ e.g. www.free3hostingg.com/myaccount/index.htmlp/ e.g. www.uuwaterlooooo.edu/cs/~tommy/index.htmlu   Instant Activiation!!!& After signing up, you can have a free 1 and a short URL and use it immediately as follow:s   e.g. lucky7.to/tom   Please visit http://lucky7.ton  to sign up for your own FREE URL  - I hope you will enjoy using our Free service.n   Thank you very much.   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2000 18:00:48 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)) Subject: Re: old vms directory structure?t6 Message-ID: <8nh98g$15n$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  z In article <NkVm5.12743$4T.735781@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, "John Furcht" <johnfurcht@worldnet.att.net> writes:K :Can someone explain the directory tree on an old microvms (4.4) system.???7  H   VMS (as it was then called) V3 and later and MicroVMS and OpenVMS all F   use a rooted file structure, with a cluster common being optionally E   available in V4 (SYSCOMMON), and the cluster common structure then eE   being standard (V5$COMMON on V5 and VMS$COMMON on V6 and later) in 2   later releases.  ,  K   Each SYS*.DIR system root (eg: SYS0.DIR) will have a SYSCOMMON.DIR alias  M   entry for the common root (SYSCOMMON.DIR, V5$COMMON.DIR, or VMS$COMMON.DIR)eK   This means that it APPEARS that you have duplicate files, but these files I   are really THE SAME FILES.  Deletion of any directory containing these -B   common files is very bad, and will render the system unbootable.  J   V3 and V4 (and systems upgraded from those releases) had an alias entry M   for SYSBOOT.EXE added into the top-level SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYSEXE] directory, eE   this can be safely removed if you do not have very old VMB primary sL   bootstrap images around -- the only system that I am aware of that always I   has this antique version of the VMB image around is the MicroVAX I and oK   the VAXstation I.  The alias entry for SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYSEXE]SYSBOOT.EXE eL   can otherwise be safely removed, and is a throwback to the V2 and earlier 6   "flat" system disk structure and the associated VMB.    4 :I need to cut down on the disk space used, so I was5 :looking thru the disk for files i can safely delete.   F   Best to look for bigger disks or a system upgrade.  The RD54 is tinyG   by current standards, and the VAXstation II and MicroVAX II series isoI   not particularly easy to connect to SCSI widgets.  (Other than a systemhF   upgrade (and most any VAX upgrade will be to a far faster VAX), the F   usual approach to connect a Q-bus to SCSI is via a KFQSA and HSD...)  J   After a system disk BACKUP/IMAGE, you can usually issue a PURGE for the I   whole disk, and a DELETE of *.LOG, *.LIS, *.TMP, and a few other "junk"rH   extensions.  You can also use ANALYZE/DISK/REPAIR to free up old disk H   caches, and round up lost files into the [SYSLOST] area -- these lost H   files can often then be deleted, but obviously the [SYSLOST] contents %   should be reviewed before deletion.F  I   You can also look at using the tailoring mechanism that was available, eG   as this can offload hunks of MicroVMS itself.  (You will want to make2G   sure you have the appropriate distribution kit(s) available, as that 2D   is the only way to tailor (add) hunks back onto the system if you    should later need them.)  1 :It appears the system root dir is [000000], with 6 :various subdirectories of system files. There is also/ :a subdirectory [.000000] with the same tree ofh: :subdirectories/system files, including another [.000000],  I   The master file directory 000000.DIR is inserted back into itself, as ahH   directory or a file needs a home, and until the master file directory L   itself exists there is not much else available nor accessable on the disk.I   In other words, that is an artifact of the file structure and should begB   ignored -- it is not using any recoverable nor extra disk space.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2000 18:20:59 GMT' From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb))) Subject: Re: old vms directory structure? 0 Message-ID: <8nhaeb$f99$1@aquila.news.mdx.ac.uk>  z In article <NkVm5.12743$4T.735781@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, "John Furcht" <johnfurcht@worldnet.att.net> writes:* >Can someone explain the directory tree on! >an old microvms (4.4) system.??? 4 >I need to cut down on the disk space used, so I was5 >looking thru the disk for files i can safely delete. 1 >It appears the system root dir is [000000], witha6 >various subdirectories of system files. There is also/ >a subdirectory [.000000] with the same tree ofe: >subdirectories/system files, including another [.000000],9 >again with the same tree of subdirectories/system files,o7 >and so on... I set def as far as [000000.000000.00000.r4 >00000.000000.000000] and always saw a repeat of the) >exact arrangement  I found in [0000000]. 1 >Are these the same files or duplicates or what??  >t >thanks in advance,e >john  >e >   N They are the same files. If you do a dir/full disk:[000000]000000.dir and note3 the file ID  and compare that with the file ID for i@ disk:[000000.000000]000000.dir  you will find they are the same.  4 A simple explanation would be along the lines of  :-  F The directory [000000] contains the top-level directories on the disk.K But to move to that directory with set default you need to specify the diskiM and the top-level directory [000000]. Hence that directory must be listed as aO a top-level directory along with the other top-level directories - confused yet2 ?2  < The directory [000000] contains itself as a directory-entry.  L If you are trying to get back space watch out for another peculiarity on theH system disk (This may not actually apply to microvms 4.4 but it's better to be warned just in case).F  H SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS0]SYSCOMMON.DIR, SYS$SYSDEVICE:[SYS1]SYSCOMMON.DIR etc? are all really the same as SYS$SYSDEVICE:[000000]VMS$COMMON.DIRn  J (I seem to remember that the VMS$COMMON.DIR name was slightly different on some older versions of VMS).  O What this means is that you might be tempted to delete some of these duplicatedr& files. Dont !! They aren't duplicated.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University     ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 18:22:00 -0400l2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>% Subject: old vms directory structure?i7 Message-ID: <200008171822_MC2-B021-CBF0@compuserve.com>e  J         I think that you are looking at the same files over and over agai= n!  [000000] catalogs itself!  D         You can prove this to yourself by doing a DIR/FILE_ID of theJ 000000.DIR in each "subdirectory".  The file ID should be the same in eac= heJ case.  The file IDs of each file in each subdirectory should be the same = as( the file ID given for any of the others.  J         Make a standalone backup before you delete *anything*!!!!  Make y= ou+ have a bootable tape with S/A Backup on it!     % Message text written by "John Furcht"2* >Can someone explain the directory tree on  an old microvms (4.4) system.???3 I need to cut down on the disk space used, so I was24 looking thru the disk for files i can safely delete.0 It appears the system root dir is [000000], with5 various subdirectories of system files. There is also2. a subdirectory [.000000] with the same tree of9 subdirectories/system files, including another [.000000],n8 again with the same tree of subdirectories/system files,6 and so on... I set def as far as [000000.000000.00000.3 00000.000000.000000] and always saw a repeat of thei( exact arrangement  I found in [0000000].0 Are these the same files or duplicates or what?? <    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:38:11 -0600r1 From: Glen Martin <GLENMARK@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu>  Subject: OpenVMS Web Forum4 Message-ID: <399C14F3.3FE5EB0A@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu>  A More as an experiment than anything else, I've set up a web-basedl9 discussion board for VMS-related topics. It is located at C http://techwind.com/cgi-bin/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number=2o: (or go to http://techwind.com and follow the Forum links).  F Unfortunately, the bulletin board is hosted from a Linux system, but IH think it might be possible to run this critter (Ultimate Bulletin Board)- from a VMS box with Perl cgi-scripts enabled.a   Enjoy.   Glen   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 10:13:29 +0930o/ From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au>r Subject: Re: OpenVMS Web Forum/ Message-ID: <399C86B1.1E83285B@wasd.vsm.com.au>n   Glen Martin wrote:  C > More as an experiment than anything else, I've set up a web-basedt; > discussion board for VMS-related topics. It is located at E > http://techwind.com/cgi-bin/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number=2 < > (or go to http://techwind.com and follow the Forum links).  @ FWIW, dispersing the already thin VMS resources further might beF counter-productive, comp.os.vms and relateds have done a good job overA the years.  These with modern GUI news browsers and an occasionalu@ archive with link and search capabilities (even Deja at a pinch)@ provides a reasonably workable and consolidated resource for VMS queries.  F I would even like to see the OpenVMS Wizard stealing his own thunder aF little there, by making posts of Wizard-queries (with replies Hoff :^)C as he or his Associate Wizards answer them, to the comp.os.vms news H group.  It would often be helpful to receive your answer sooner than theG sometimes three or four weeks it can take to appear on the Wizard pagesyH (having just posted one myself :^)  The Wizard page then assumes more of@ a role as valuable, accumulated repository of all the previously dispersed Wizdom.O   Cheers, Mark Daniel.   -- ,B "This electronic message and any attachments could not possibly be@ confidential otherwise it would not be sent unencrypted, via theA Internet, through countless mailing agents, gateways, and using asA plethora of other completely insecure and extremely public media..B Even if you are not the intended recipient of this message you areC free to use and abuse any and all of the contents as everyone knowsuD full-well that that with zero security available the only conclusion@ can be zero accountability.  No virus scanning software was usedC composing or mailing this message, end-use automatically nullifyingvC liability for infestation or subversion caused by opinions or ideaso it may contain."   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Aug 2000 01:55:29 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: OpenVMS Web Forum6 Message-ID: <8ni52h$52v$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  a In article <399C86B1.1E83285B@wasd.vsm.com.au>, Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> writes:m  G :I would even like to see the OpenVMS Wizard stealing his own thunder ahG :little there, by making posts of Wizard-queries (with replies Hoff :^)1D :as he or his Associate Wizards answer them, to the comp.os.vms news :group.   K   Was that a, um, poorly-veiled attempt to guess at the identities of the, uI   um, alleged perpetrator(s) lurking behind the Ask The Wizard area?  :-)   A :It would often be helpful to receive your answer sooner than therH :sometimes three or four weeks it can take to appear on the Wizard pagesI :(having just posted one myself :^)  The Wizard page then assumes more ofmA :a role as valuable, accumulated repository of all the previouslyr :dispersed Wizdom.  I   The delay on posting out answers to the questions posed at the OpenVMS hJ   Ask The Wizard (ATW) area is entirely deliberate -- business, staffing, G   and technical issues, as well as maintaining specific expectations on <   responsiveness and such, are all involved in the decision.  K   If you need a faster answer, or if you need an answer (not all questions eL   will receive answers), or if you have a detailed, complex, or particularlyJ   obscure question, then please contact the Compaq Customer Support Center    (CSC) directly for assistance.   	--e  J   As for the earlier part of this thread -- around a web-based discussion J   board for OpenVMS -- there is also a (read-only) link permitting viewingI   of the DECUS OpenVMS-related notes conferences available via the web (a I   notes-to-web gateway), and (obviously) write access to the DECUS notes aJ   conferences can be gained via the appropriate contacts with DECUS folks.    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 11:56:20 +0930o/ From: Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au>w Subject: Re: OpenVMS Web Forum/ Message-ID: <399C9ECC.A4E9EB58@wasd.vsm.com.au>    Hoff Hoffman wrote:t  c > In article <399C86B1.1E83285B@wasd.vsm.com.au>, Mark Daniel <Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> writes:u > I > :I would even like to see the OpenVMS Wizard stealing his own thunder atI > :little there, by making posts of Wizard-queries (with replies Hoff :^)sF > :as he or his Associate Wizards answer them, to the comp.os.vms news	 > :group.- > L >   Was that a, um, poorly-veiled attempt to guess at the identities of the,K >   um, alleged perpetrator(s) lurking behind the Ask The Wizard area?  :-)v  F Far be it!  A careful linguistic analysis, I am sure, would reveal theF subject of the statement is the "OpenVMS Wizard" not the parenthesizedE aside to "Hoff", and so the "he" and the "Associate Wizards" (who areaH sometimes imtimated in replies) refer to the subject of to the statement3 ("OpenVMS Wizard"), not to the incidental ("Hoff").v  E But, as happens so often with Superman, who cannot resist dropping tonH Lois Lane and other intimates of his alter-ego Clark Kent small hints asC to his true identity, more may be discovered by what is not overtlylF revealed (at least in this episode).  (I mean, even I can recognise myF bespectacled friends and aquaintances whether they are currently using their prostheses or not.)   J >   The delay on posting out answers to the questions posed at the OpenVMSK >   Ask The Wizard (ATW) area is entirely deliberate -- business, staffing,iI >   and technical issues, as well as maintaining specific expectations ond> >   responsiveness and such, are all involved in the decision.  F Understood (but I still think it's a good idea - at least for *us* ;^)   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2000 18:16:08 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)- Subject: partial port of Postgresql availablep, Message-ID: <8nha58$epp@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  K I've been looking for an affordable database system for our OpenVMS system,uG so far, with no luck.  In that quest I've examined some of the freewareyG database systems.  I couldn't make heads or tails of MySql or InterbaseaI (especially their build procedures).  But a recent slashdot thread on theoB excellent performance of Postgresql convinced me to give it a try.  B I only allowed myself one workday for this - if it didn't all fallK substantially into place by then I wasn't going to pursue it. And it didn't G get far enough for me to go on within that time limit but somebody elseaJ may want to pick up the pieces (which will at least save them from having ; to start totally from scratch).  The distribution is here:    B   ftp://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/software/pgsql_vms_partial_port.zip  E (It's big - 16872 blocks!)  Look at aaa_vms_port_notes.txt in the toph/ directory, and then to do the partial build do     $ set def [.src]	 $ set ver  $ @make_vmsn  K The partial port is based on an edited log of a build on Linux/Intel. It ishI pretty depressingly for those of us who hope that OpenVMS has a future tokI watch a large package like this build without a hitch on Linux/Intel, andpD to compile at roughly 100x the rate that is obtained on OpenVMS (dueG entirely to the file IO wrapped up in the 100 or so #include operations(K typical for each module - and the current lack of an effective file caching K system on OpenVMS.)  Anyway, the Linux build supplied enough information to ; put together most (not all) of an OpenVMS build procedure. o  I The good news is that most of the code seems to be pretty well written - .G for Unix code.  By that I mean that while it doesn't conform to any onefK C language standard, the vast majority of it compiled with some combinationa? of defined language standards, and the rest could be built withnG /standard=relaxed so long as they didn't also require some Unix API noteI present on VMS.  (Just don't expect /warn=(enable=all) to be silent, eveneI though it flies through gcc -Wall on linux quietly.)  In short, somethingaK like 95% of it could be compiled cleanly "out of the box", and most of the lI rest of that 5% were routines that need to be replaced anyway.  That's a .A lot better than most packages I see.  (See aaa_vms_port_notes.txtwD for some of the potential bugs I saw - none of which were resolved.)  H The bad news is that the entire IPC section needs to be rewritten to useG native VMS APIs - but that does also open up the opportunity to make itgH more "cluster" aware.  (Thanks to Dan O'Reilly for identifying the "UNIXI domain sockets" pieces, which I'd never seen before.)   Those few of you rI who know your way around the innards of multithreaded OpenVMS web serverswH may be able to make quick work of the rest of the port - the issues leftB unresolved by my work are those already resolved in such servers.   ? Anyway, good luck to whoever wants to have a shot at this next.S   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edug? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech u   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 01:22:47 GMTa- From: "Dave Pampreen" <davepampreen@home.com>e# Subject: Possible Timeout using FTPe9 Message-ID: <Hd0n5.2414$QW4.48946@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com>e   Greetings all,  L I am running into a problem when I'm FTPing to a remote machine (Novell 5.x)J from VMS.   It will go for a while, and if there is network lag it appearsL to be timing out.   I personally don't think that's the case, but anyway....  " Can I change the time-out for FTP?   System Info:  7   DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS VAX Version V5.0Ad(   on a VAX 7000-720 running OpenVMS V7.2   Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 05:36:46 +0930 / From: Mark Daniel <mark.daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au>sF Subject: Re: Programmatic access to byte count rx/tx on TCP/IP socket./ Message-ID: <399C45D5.B7F5E0DB@wasd.vsm.com.au>l   Richard wrote:  
 > Hi Mark, >s: > The only thing that I can suggest (short of accumulating7 > your own stats in a global section maintained by your 9 > parent & child read/write routines) is to find a systeme< > with UCX (unfortunately NETCU doesn't seem to have it) and > do a:- >l > UCX> SHO DEV BGnnnn  >O5 > You might need to have a /FULL (I'll check tonight)  >u7 > Anyway, if any of the figures on that screen are what 7 > you're looking for then they are attainable through a-8 > $getdvi or $qio io$_sensmode itemlist or iosb or maybe > io$_acpcontrol.c  ` Yes.  The data I want is displayed there, "Bytes Transfered" with "Send" and "Received" columns.   That's what gave me the idea.  Can't find the API and suspect it's not published.  Surely someone has required this before?  Can't be a Process SoftwareX comercial-in-confidence - bet they know how to do it and not only with MultiNet/TCPware!  = > I was referring to the pedantic thread. In a scene from one[ > of the Pink Panther movies:- >r3 > Clouseau approaches a man standing next to a dog.. >0! > Clouseau: "Does your dog bite?"e > Man:      "No."s >n: > Clouseau then reaches over to pat the dog and almost has > his arm taken off. > 7 > Clouseau: "I thought you said your dog doesn't bite!"n! > Man:      "That is not my dog."  >t2 > Oh well, it is funny when Peter Sellers does it.   It's also funny in recollection.  Yes, I know it well.  Sellers with some of his best material.  I always wonder how such slap-stick comedy manages also top9 be so subtle.  A credit to the late, great Peter Sellers.-  $ Thanks for reminding me of it, Mark.  D ********************************************************************B "This electronic message and any attachments could not possibly be@ confidential otherwise it would not be sent unencrypted, via theA Internet, through countless mailing agents, gateways, and using anA plethora of other completely insecure and extremely public media.,B Even if you are not the intended recipient of this message you areC free to use and abuse any and all of the contents as everyone knowsnD full-well that that with zero security available the only conclusion@ can be zero accountability.  No virus scanning software was usedC composing or mailing this message, end-use automatically nullifyingiC liability for infestation or subversion caused by opinions or ideasr it may contain."   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:42:35 -0400y3 From: "Ray McClellan" <raymcclellan@mindspring.com>0& Subject: Sony MO on VAXstation 4000/602 Message-ID: <8nhbme$rb0$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>  I I've just acquired a VAXstation 4000/60, primarily to learn VMS.  It cametK with an installed copy of 7.1, but I would like to add additional drives soaI I could maintain older versions of VMS if possible.  It has a 2.88 floppyiI but no CD.  I am trying to get a 5.25" MO to talk to it with little luck.eK Just setting the device number and plugging it in gets the drive recognizedeG but trying to INITIALIZE or MOUNT a disk gets a "device offline" error.vL Trying to boot the device just for fun shows that the VAX goes out and talksA to the drive, so I suspect the problem is in VMS setup somewhere.a   $ sho dev di  @ Device                      Device           Error        Volume Free  Trans Mntr@  Name                       Status           Count         Label Blocks Count Cnt3 DAD0:                       Online                0dL MRITS$DKA100:     Mounted            0      OPENVMS071     1021632   295   1J MRITS$DKA500:     Mounted alloc    0      TEST288               2735     1 1O( MRITS$DKA600:     Online              11 $S( $ mount /override=identification dka600:" %MOUNT-F-MEDOFL, medium is offline   $ sho dev dka600:/fu  J Disk MRITS$DKA600:, device type SONY SMO-C501-00, is online, file-oriented0     device, shareable, error logging is enabled.  K     Error count                   14                   Operations completedS 24>     Owner process                 ""                 Owner UIC [RAYMCC]4     Owner process ID        00000000        Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W I     Reference count                0                  Default buffer sizeC 512o  9 $   (Error count shows # of unsuccessful access attempts)   H The device is a 512 byte/ sector disk.  It came off of a PDP system withK RSX-11.  The MO disk we are trying to read was written on another VAX 4000.h  6 Of the many things I don't understand, here are a few:  K 1. This is an embedded SCSI controller, but are there any commands to setup K for the specific device ie. WRITE VERIFY, DISCONNECT ON_OFF, SYNC MODE etc,k) ala other DEC SCSI controllers I've seen?=K 2. Is there something I need to do in INSTALL?  Install HELP so far hasn't.bG 3. Is it possible that this drive is just incompatible with the system?o  B I've looked through the FAQ's and many of the SCSI subjects in theL newsgroup, but I think that I'm just missing something obvious.  Any info orD points in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.    
 Ray McClellan    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 22:09:25 GMT, From: smiley0205@my-deja.com3 Subject: Taking a MicroVax 3100-90 out of a clusteri) Message-ID: <8nhnq7$u43$1@nnrp1.deja.com>0   VMS'ers,  C   I have a question.  We have a Mixed interconnect cluster with twogC 6610's and one MicroVax 3100-90.  All three are running 5.5-2.  TheoE 3100 boots over the ethernet.  I want to take this machine out of the0G cluster permanently so what is the easiest way to copy the VMS stuff tojG a local disk?  I do have a disk that I can use and even initialize.  ItdF currently boots from SYS30.  Would I use vmskitbld and use sys0 as the< source root and target root?  Any help would be appreciated!   Spikec    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.o   ------------------------------   Date: 17 Aug 2000 22:33:41 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)7 Subject: Re: Taking a MicroVax 3100-90 out of a clusterr6 Message-ID: <8nhp85$3rh$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  H In article <8nhnq7$u43$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, smiley0205@my-deja.com writes:  D :  I have a question.  We have a Mixed interconnect cluster with twoD :6610's and one MicroVax 3100-90.  All three are running 5.5-2.  TheF :3100 boots over the ethernet.  I want to take this machine out of theH :cluster permanently so what is the easiest way to copy the VMS stuff toH :a local disk?  I do have a disk that I can use and even initialize.  ItG :currently boots from SYS30.  Would I use vmskitbld and use sys0 as theo= :source root and target root?  Any help would be appreciated!   C   Please see "MGMT45 How can I split up an OpenVMS Cluster?" in thesC   OpenVMS FAQ, as a start.  If you have no local copy of OpenVMS onoB   the system, it will generally be easiest to install it onto the E   local disk, rather than undoing all of the existing customizations  F   for the current VAX system and then adding in the necessary changes H   for the MicroVAX.  After installing, pull across whichver appropriate F   set of files from the list in MGMT45.  (I'd also look at installing G   the current OpenVMS VAX V7.2 release, rather than staying at V5.5-2.)u  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 19:24:44 GMTo' From: moi_is_me <moi_is_me@my-deja.com>D Subject: VAXSTATION 4000/90n) Message-ID: <8nhe53$i8p$1@nnrp1.deja.com>s   Hi,eA   First, thanks to those whom responded to other questions i have    posted for the 4000/90  %   Anyways, two more (quick) questions   A Q1 - Where can i obtain the last firmware update for this machinev8      (i've checked ComPaq, but didn't see it - dylexia?)  8 Q2 - What is the largest drive supported by this machine   As usual ... thanks inadvancet    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.z   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 21:34:02 -0500i) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net>i Subject: Re: VAXSTATION 4000/90 / Message-ID: <spp80fqc87v139@corp.supernews.com>y  ) "moi_is_me" <moi_is_me@my-deja.com> wrote . in message news:8nhe53$i8p$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > Hi,zC >   First, thanks to those whom responded to other questions i have- >   posted for the 4000/90 >h' >   Anyways, two more (quick) questions8 >5C > Q1 - Where can i obtain the last firmware update for this machinem: >      (i've checked ComPaq, but didn't see it - dylexia?)  D The device does not have frimware, it has old fashion ROMs or PROMS.  I There may or may not be an ECO for the boot proms, but it probably is noto needed.s  : > Q2 - What is the largest drive supported by this machine  I I do not know, that information may be available in the OpenVMS FAQ (just H posted).  I would be surprised if you could actually find a drive bigger than it will use.h  L It is probably easy to find a drive that does not fully comply with the SCSIK dialect that VMS uses.  There are some tricks that can be sometimes used torK make it work, but sometimes you are just out of luck.  (so far, I have beenz	 lucky :-)h  K SCSI drives and OpenVMS have been discussed a lot on comp.os.vms and if youh7 use deja to search the archives you can find out a lot.t  F When putting drives in a VAXstation, the amount of heat that the driveJ generates can matter a lot.  It is possible for a drive that generates tooJ much heat to damage itself or other components.  So if you are putting the drive internally, beware.    -Johnv wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:31:22 GMTs2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>! Subject: Re: VMS hobbyist versionp5 Message-ID: <eB_m5.135$M62.51900@typhoon.aracnet.com>   * yyyc186.illegaltospam_@flashcom.net wrote:I > According to the link I looked at on www.decus.org the VAX distributions% > comes on TK50 and the alpha CD rom.w  8 What?!?!  I assume you followed it to the following URL:J http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/media.html which specifically states thatL the VAX and Alpha Hobbyist distro's are on CD-ROM, and that a TK50 distro is> in the works (well, it's said that for over a year I believe).   			Zanez   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:25:13 -04006' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>l  Subject: Re: VMS Vs any other OS( Message-ID: <8nhhjo$gqe$1@pyrite.mv.net>  + Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> wrote in messaget% news:VA.000000a1.03e06b7f@sture.ch...d; > In article <8neh7g$44p$1@pyrite.mv.net>, Bill Todd wrote:s+ > > From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>M > > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsn$ > > Subject: Re: VMS Vs any other OS) > > Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 13:00:33 -0400s > >a > >oJ > Now then Mr Todd. I do have a complaint about you. When you climbed onto c.o.vaJ > (what - 9 months or so ago?), you reminded me of myself a few years ago, whenK > I was deprived of VMS at work, but still from memory, could come out withi bits1 > of sound advice, or positive comments at least.l >eK > Nowadays I wonder about your motives. I have seen you slag various peopled off,H > sometimes in discussions I wish to join in, often it dissaudes me from joiningnI > in. As various folks here know, I am not afraid to join in to technical I > discussions - if I am wrong, someone will (normally) gently correct me,  and Ir/ > will in return apologize if I misled someone.   L I don't start by slagging people off on technical issues they misunderstand:I I simply explain to them where they're mistaken.  If they still don't getmB it, I explain again.  After 3 or 4 times, if they not only fail toK understand but fail to seek clarification and instead simply reassert their D misconceptions as fact, *then* they run the risk of getting slagged.  G Kerry Main comes to mind, for example.  He had misconceptions about hownE Sun's clustering worked, and I explained to him several times how his F understanding failed to mesh with reality.  Those misconceptions laterI resurfaced, unchanged:  he had apparently failed to check his information-J even after it had been questioned (in detail, and not only by me), and wasJ once again presenting it as evidence that VMS clustering could do specificH things that Sun's could not - and this was just as untrue as it had beenL before.  I explained again, and yet again, and he still neither 'got it' norI stopped misrepresenting the situation.  And since the question of whetheruG VMS's clustering facilites are in danger of being at least functionally L equaled elsewhere is rather central to VMS's continued ability to contributeG to the industry despite minimal marketing effort (today; zero marketingkK effort until very recently) by Compaq, and my reason for being here is that'K I believe VMS indeed has potential for making on-going contributions to thehJ industry *if* Compaq can be persuaded to change its current 'life-support'G approach to one promoting a *robust* recovery, I pursued the issue withs increasing vigor.   J Dachtera's a different kettle of fish:  he seldom seems to argue technicalD matters, and normally I just ignore him.  Unfortunately, he chose toL ridicule the idea (and the basis for it in well-founded research) that VMS'sJ strengths may increasingly not matter much in an increasingly standardizedK industry whereas its non-standard limitations may matter a lot, which again G is rather central to any real VMS turn-around and what it might take ton
 ensure it.  J I have been under the impression that many people here wished to support aI true VMS revitalization rather than simply a stabilization, and that suchyI issues were therefore of general interest.  That impression may have been F incorrect:  there appears to be noticeable sentiment now that Compaq'sH current efforts are satisfactory and that aggressive efforts to regain aG significant portion of VMS's old market share are not necessary, and ifoF that's indeed the case then I apologize for wasting people's time (and regret having wasted my own).a   >yK > I can trawl back over the last few months to find your comments, but I doe not * > wish to do so. However, I must say this: > B > My memory of many of your arguments goes like "...some technical argument"...G > "but since that is not my current field, I cannot say for certain..."l  F That's likely because, unlike many people, I take pains to distinguishH between what I know, what I'm pretty sure of, and what I simply suspect.L When I leave such an opening, it's an invitation for a response from someoneK who *knows* the point in question, not some indication that the rest of the-: post is uninformed or even just a strongly educated guess.   > K > After your exchanges of the last few days (nay, weeks, months...), I musto ask I > "What do you do for a living now?" OS details etc... Come on, even somelC > frustrations, and we may be able to suggest directions for you...   E No, thanks:  my directions are clear to me.  I architect, design, andoK implement high-performance, high-availability distributed transaction-basedeK file/record/object storage systems plus the distributed locking and cachingoJ mechanisms to support them.  Needless to say, these don't come along everyE day, but between consulting jobs I work actively to remain abreast of,H current academic and industry developments in these areas and massage myK existing designs accordingly.  Next Monday I will join a company creating anH product of special interest to me which has, it is fair to say, the mostI exciting prospects of anything I've ever been involved with:  needless tom say, I'm excited.b   >h' > "What _is_ your current expertise???"   E I likely have a better understanding of the breadth and depth of dataaG storage and access issues than any regular (and possibly any irregular) J contributor here.  Which is not to suggest that I'm better-acquainted with9 every *specific* area, though I likely am in quite a few.X   >-F > Finally, "Why do you take such joy in what I can only call emotional insults1L > to folks who will normally bend over backwards to swap technical info with > others here?"r  J I take no joy in such at all:  they simply reflect my own disgust with theF material I'm responding to, and leave me wanting to take a long showerJ afterward.  If I didn't care about VMS and its future (or lack thereof), IK probably wouldn't get so sucked in:  while the vast majority of comp.os.vmsiF contributors, even many who might be considered VMS bigots, seem to beJ reasonable people who at least make some effort to keep an open mind, whatL they choose to believe is of no particular interest to me save as it affectsL VMS's future ability to contribute to the industry rather than remain on the
 sidelines.   - bill   >sG > You are getting close to being added to my killfile, although I wouldy ratherE > not do that, because when on form I _do_ feel you have something to 
 > contribute.a > ___t > Paul Sture
 > Switzerlands >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:46:12 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>   Subject: Re: VMS Vs any other OS, Message-ID: <399C5D10.6CCC401C@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:L > I have been under the impression that many people here wished to support aK > true VMS revitalization rather than simply a stabilization, and that such , > issues were therefore of general interest.  L And you have portrayed yourself as being one who firmly beleived that CompaqM should just aim to solidify its remaining market niches and not risk anythinglJ to try to enlarge its marketshare. And from your posts, it seemed apparentL that you were against Compaq betting any of its business or risking anythingM to try to recapture any of the marketshare it had lost due to non-competitiveeK practices (and since all of that business happens to be at a lower end than*I the remaining few market niches, it comes out as you being against CompaqrK taking any serious steps (eg: spend money) on re-capturing lower-end sales.e= (eg: compete against NT/linux servers and high end desktops).o  L To reclaim its stake as a scalable operating system, VMS must spend a lot of@ money to bring back applications and price itself competitively.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 00:29:45 +0100t% From: Alan Greig <a.greig@virgin.net>l  Subject: Re: VMS Vs any other OS* Message-ID: <399C7569.9694AC3D@virgin.net>   JF Mezei wrote:u   > Bill Todd wrote:N > > I have been under the impression that many people here wished to support aM > > true VMS revitalization rather than simply a stabilization, and that sucha. > > issues were therefore of general interest. >,N > And you have portrayed yourself as being one who firmly beleived that CompaqO > should just aim to solidify its remaining market niches and not risk anythingnL > to try to enlarge its marketshare. And from your posts, it seemed apparentN > that you were against Compaq betting any of its business or risking anythingO > to try to recapture any of the marketshare it had lost due to non-competitiveoM > practices (and since all of that business happens to be at a lower end thaneK > the remaining few market niches, it comes out as you being against CompaqeM > taking any serious steps (eg: spend money) on re-capturing lower-end sales.i? > (eg: compete against NT/linux servers and high end desktops).d >lN > To reclaim its stake as a scalable operating system, VMS must spend a lot ofB > money to bring back applications and price itself competitively.  N I've got to step in on this point at least here. Bill Todd definitely believesH that Compaq should spend more money that it does currently promoting and@ developing VMS and has said so very directly in email elsewhere.     --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:42:03 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>   Subject: Re: VMS Vs any other OS( Message-ID: <8ni0l2$t2t$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:399C5D10.6CCC401C@videotron.ca... > Bill Todd wrote:L > > I have been under the impression that many people here wished to support a H > > true VMS revitalization rather than simply a stabilization, and that such. > > issues were therefore of general interest. >cG > And you have portrayed yourself as being one who firmly beleived thatc CompaqF > should just aim to solidify its remaining market niches and not risk anything$ > to try to enlarge its marketshare.  I While you're certainly under no obligation to have paid attention to whathK I've said over time, by not having paid such attention you're equally in nohD position to comment on it.  But rather than suggest that you do your$ homework, I'll bring you up to date:  E My first reaction to Compaq's lack of support for VMS, when it became E obvious to me shortly after getting acquainted with comp.os.vms about I sixteen months ago, was indignation that they were ignoring - and in some K ways destroying - the value of such a major asset.  And I made that feelingt clear here.l  I After a period of time hearing others complain (but to all appearances doIL nothing else) and getting a better idea of the overall situation, I began toJ realize that the value of VMS, and its potential, might well not be at allG obvious to Compaq - any more than it seemed to be obvious to DEC for sorI long - and that the only likely way to bring it to their attention was tosD gather some kind of group support (since the long-term record of VMSJ customer effectiveness in changing the situation was shall we say dismal).  L So I tried to explain how and why Compaq might not see the value of devotingL resources to VMS with the hope of eliciting some kind of response suggestingH how the situation could be changed *from Compaq's viewpoint* in a mannerJ that would change their perception (i.e., stop just saying that Compaq wasI screwing up, and instead understand their position and figure out what it E would take to change it - since persuasion hadn't enjoyed perceptibled success for a decade or so).  G (I suspect that approach is what put me in touch with a group of peoplefI actually interested in doing something more than just piss and moan.  But0K since those interactions were private, they don't particularly apply here.)>  I Recently, there's been the issue of VMS's supposed 'renaissance'.  On the K one hand, there's clearly been *some* change in Compaq's attitude:  they're'L starting to take off VMS's most constrictive manacles and at least allow itsF praises to be sung *within* the existing VMS community - as long as itJ doesn't cost much of anything (e.g., improving its Web presence - *within*K the VMS sub-tree) or compete overtly with Compaq's other offerings.  On theoH other hand, they've given VMS negligible general advertising funding andL made no other move signifying that they're willing to tie Compaq's future toF VMS's (and thus make VMS a credible long-term OS choice for anyone notI already committed to it), and I've been vocal in criticizing this lack ofeC *real* (money:  that's what's real in this game) support and in thetF overexuberance of those who would see in Compaq's pitifully inadequateE actions far more reason for optimism than seems warranted (unless alllD they're looking for is reassurance that VMS isn't going to disappear completely any time soon).  (  And from your posts, it seemed apparentE > that you were against Compaq betting any of its business or risking  anything? > to try to recapture any of the marketshare it had lost due top non-competitive H > practices (and since all of that business happens to be at a lower end thanK > the remaining few market niches, it comes out as you being against CompaqXF > taking any serious steps (eg: spend money) on re-capturing lower-end sales.? > (eg: compete against NT/linux servers and high end desktops).d  I If you'd paid attention, you would have seen that my criticism focused oniL the likely ineffectiveness of efforts in such areas *before* re-establishingL general credibility in the higher-end areas where VMS's remaining acceptanceG gives it some chance of doing so - by returning to vigorous developmentpJ (aimed at eliminating strategic functional limitations, many of which haveK been discussed here recently and few of which are likely all that importantiC to the existing customer base but are critical to expanding it) andsF initiating (since saying 'returning to' might be inappropriate) *real* marketing efforts.  K Without such preliminary steps, a sudden all-out assault on NT and Linux byeK VMS could easily be seen as so insane a move that Compaq's stock could sink K to levels low enough to encourage a take-over.  Even after such preliminaryaL steps, it may well not be in Compaq's interest to do anything more than makeJ VMS reasonably available in the low end, rather than push it aggressively:2 it has multiple other systems covering that space.   > K > To reclaim its stake as a scalable operating system, VMS must spend a lot  ofB > money to bring back applications and price itself competitively.  F VMS stands no chance whatsoever of reclaiming significant market shareJ unless it undertakes major new development (not currently under any publicH consideration) to retain its current, but rapidly diminishing, technicalK superiority (to keep giving users biased toward other systems some tangibletF reason to consider it), ensures that the Unix/Linux compatibility workB already mentioned is effective in building useful bridges to thoseH environments rather than just a 'check the box' feature, and gets *real*I advertising support from Compaq to make both current and future strengths 9 widely visible, along with Compaq's long-term commitment.m  I That's the minimum required to restore general credibility for VMS in its K *existing* strongholds (which will otherwise likely continue to erode:  whoaJ wants to be stuck with a dead-end OS, even if it will be around forever?).L Once a good start has been made doing that, there'll be a base from which toJ try to expand by increasing availability of applications (whose developersJ would then likely have greater interest in porting them).  As for pricing,L that's debatable:  my impression is that compared to these other issues it'sH relatively minor (or, to put it another way, that existing pricing wouldG by-and-large be competitive if these other problems were fixed), thoughdI there are some low-end-specific areas in which *somewhat* more aggressiveIL pricing likely would cost Compaq very little and provide at least some moral support.  K The real problem continues to be that Compaq shows absolutely no indicationtK of willingness to consider any kind of aggressive action, regardless of its>L nature.  And as long as that's the case, VMS will continue to be a sluggish,I half-submerged ship struggling to remain afloat, even though it may never@ actually sink.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:29:00 -0400u- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>M  Subject: Re: VMS Vs any other OS, Message-ID: <399CAD50.AF041084@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:K > While you're certainly under no obligation to have paid attention to what M > I've said over time, by not having paid such attention you're equally in noo > position to comment on it.  9 Based on your post, you do seem to be a different person.   I > (I suspect that approach is what put me in touch with a group of peopleeK > actually interested in doing something more than just piss and moan.  ButaM > since those interactions were private, they don't particularly apply here.)r  L It was in one such group whose purpose was to convince Compaq to re-energizeG the smaller customer market that you seemed so adamanent against CompaquL spending any money on making VMS compete against NT and Unix which caused me to tune out.  M > Without such preliminary steps, a sudden all-out assault on NT and Linux byiM > VMS could easily be seen as so insane a move that Compaq's stock could sinka0 > to levels low enough to encourage a take-over.  L 1- If VMS gives Compaq so many profits, and if VMS's is labeled as dyring byM the media, then shareholders should be dumping Compaq stock if Compaq doesn'tnM actively try to save that market. It is because VMS has already been declaredeN dead so many times that shareholders don't even know it still exists and stillI gives Compaq the lion's share of profits. If shareholders knew about VMS,tK they'd demand Compaq take a more proactive marketing stance to protect thato
 gold mine.  L 2-If you wait until there are enough applications to make VMS more appealingN to the lower end market, those applications won't materialise because softwareH makers won't move to VMS until they see a very clear and large effort toM breathe life back into VMS. Catch 22. And the best way to resolve this is foriM Compaq to lead the revival by making a lot of noise about VMS to give a clearoF PUBLIC message that VMS is not only here to stay, but that Compaq will8 agressively market it against its competitors (NT/UNIX).  H > VMS stands no chance whatsoever of reclaiming significant market shareL > unless it undertakes major new development (not currently under any public  K Please remove the word "significant" from the above sentence and you'll seedD how much more sense it makes.  You can't instantly go from "dead" toH "significant market share". But if Compaq opened the gates to VMS at allH market segments, whatever small growth it would bring would be extremelyL significant for VMS , even if it insignificant in the whole market. And that5 would be a good start of a long journey back to life.h  I You have to start somewhere, and becayse of VMS's current state, you needaI electroshock treatment to get it awakened and get the world to notice thee rebirth of VMS.t    H While Compaq's steps such as the COE initiative is good, it is also veryK obscure. Because of Digital's past, there is no real confidence that Compaq K knows where it is going with VMS. As a result, all those steps we are seingnK now might be part of a long term plan that starts by laying the foundationsnL and eventually go with the big push, but on the other hand, it could be justH another disjointed attempt at pleasing/appeasing the existing customers.    K So, if Compaq were to release their real long term plans NOW, it would givemJ the customers the confidence that Compaq is serious about reviving VMS. SoL far, Compaq doesn't have much credibility in that respect. It failed to push VMS at the Wildfire launch.u   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2000 01:03:04 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)  Subject: Re: VMS Vs any other OS+ Message-ID: <5iFpNO5sYOYz@eisner.decus.org>h  \ In article <399C5D10.6CCC401C@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Bill Todd wrote:M >> I have been under the impression that many people here wished to support ayL >> true VMS revitalization rather than simply a stabilization, and that such- >> issues were therefore of general interest.  > N > And you have portrayed yourself as being one who firmly beleived that CompaqO > should just aim to solidify its remaining market niches and not risk anythingr% > to try to enlarge its marketshare. l  9 	This isn't true at all.  Not to defend Bill , he does ant4 	adequate job at that.  But just want to affirm that= 	Bill is *keenly* interested in the >> GROWTH << of VMS.  (1)   $ 	I know something you don't know ;-)   				Rob,    G (1)  You may not agree with all his methods or ideas.  But you wouldn'tc! 	agree with all of mine either...    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 18:25:32 GMTw0 From: "Mike Flaherty" <mflaherty2@earthlink.net>- Subject: Re: VMS vs unix (the true contender)hE Message-ID: <w6Wm5.10734$Cc2.395174@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>e  
 Hello All,  F I have been on vacation for a couple of days and I see that we are nowL engaged in a sprited discussion regarding Compaq and Sun.  Since Mr HarrisonL is a self proclaimed SUN engineer with "real world customer contact" (quotesL are mine).  Perhaps he can explain why I, a customer in the real world,  had to endure the following....i  J Back around 10/99 I ran the newest available SUNscan.  This is script thatH SUN provides to tell you which patches (y2k, security and otherwise) youJ need for your system.  I downloaded the patches it recommended for SolarisK 2.6 and installed them as directed.  Everthing looked fine until I rebooted I my Ultra 60 and then it couldn't find the network card.  Considering thatVF this machine was my primary DNS and that "the network is the computer"J (quotes are SUN's), this presented a major  problem for me.  After talkingJ with the meat heads (they truely are laughable) at Sun's software support,H they transferred me to hardware support.  As it turned out, the hardwareJ folks clearly had their act much more together than the software folks andJ we were ale to fix the problem with a soluton that really should have been solved by the software folks.g  H By this point DNS and my other applications were working but OpenWindowsI wasn't, which made me wonder what else might be wrong.  Since this systemlK only had 2 disks (system disk and data disk), I asked the hardware folks if I they could temporarily lend me an external disk so that I could reinstalluL Solaris on it and then dump it back to our own system disk.  After all, this" problem was caused by THEIR PATCH.  L To make a very long story (all weekend)  short, they told me that they wouldF like to help me but that they couldn't because their field service wasL really done by a company called Decision One and that D1 simply doesn't lend
 out disks.  F I begged and pleaded and finally, after escalating the call to severalJ managers, they offered to give me a disk directly from SUN with one catch.K I had to pick it up myself.  So I drove from Westwood, MA to Burlington, MA K (~35 miles each way) where I met the hardware guy who originally solved theaF problem.  He then literally removed a disk from one of his development9 machines and had me sign for it and I was on my way back.k    K Now I know that this is a VMS newsgroup and some of you are scratching yourgK heads and saying why did it take so long to get fixed?  Why did you have touJ drive all the way to Sun to pick up a disk drive?  Why doesn't SUN service their own stuff?  I You see I, like you, have taken for granted the excelent level of servicetJ that I get from our real enteprise systems.  If this problem had been on aH VAX or an Alpha, this unlikely event would have caused hours not days ofH downtime.  In fact, when I first received this Ultra 60, I had to put itJ together because the CDrom and memory weren't installed.  Then of course IG couldn't boot from the CD because I needed the 5/98 hardware release ofaJ Solaris 2.6 because it accomodated for firmware in the newer CDrom drives.  J Don't get me wrong.  I know how impossible it is to convince anyone eitherI way about platforms and operating sytems.  It would be like talking about G abortion (an aprpopriate analogy to SUN's service).  We could argue and I debate all we want but in the end no one's opinion will be changed and heeH with the best marketing wins out anyway - just look what happened to the MAC.   Best,o
 Mike Flaherty    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:36:56 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> - Subject: Re: VMS vs unix (the true contender)s, Message-ID: <399C5AE4.EA1EF595@videotron.ca>   Mike Flaherty wrote:M > I had to pick it up myself.  So I drove from Westwood, MA to Burlington, MAiM > (~35 miles each way) where I met the hardware guy who originally solved theiH > problem.  He then literally removed a disk from one of his development; > machines and had me sign for it and I was on my way back.   M In a previous life, I had to endure the replacement of DEC hardware with thatiN of Data General. They coudn't get their act together and could not deliver theL software we had ordered on DG's equivalent of the TK70 we had. They tried toN connect a large refrigirator (9 track tape drive) to that small box, but after) *3* weeks, they gave up. The solution ?  i  I Data General had to borrow a tape drive from a CUSTOMER , bring it to ouroK site, install it, load all the promised software, and then return that tapey. drive to the customer a couple of weeks later.  M Yeah, DG did go through great lengths to get it done, but their reduced meansrK resulted in other DG customers being disrupted just to fulfill a promise DGiL had made during the sale. Of course, I had told my superiors "I TOLD YOU SO"K (the story of my life), but it was too late for them to change their minds.hN The cheaper solution won, kicking the (arogant) DEC  out of the shop. Yeah, inL the end, they ended up spending much more to get that darn DG thing running,L but that was over a period of a year or two to get it running and it is onlyH at the end that they had realised their mistake in selecting the cheaper solution over the DEC solution.   M But in the end, DEC still lost not only a new sale, but lost an existing siteoJ (where I had installed DEC gear already and was forced to changed it to DG' gear to match that of the head office).    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:24:43 -0600h From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>c  Subject: What quota was exceeded' Message-ID: <399C3BFB.86412858@srv.net>   A I'm trying to do a compile (Large VaxBasic program on a VAX3100) l" and am getting the unhelpful error  " 	%SYSTEM-F-EXQUOTA, exceeded quota  C but I don't know which quota has been exceeded. I'vr tried boostingr> up all the user quotas for this account, but haven't fixed the
 error yet.  > How do I figure out which quota is getting exceeded so I don't) have to keep randomally adjusting quotas?l   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 15:09:22 -0700S! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comn$ Subject: Re: What quota was exceededC Message-ID: <OFB64FB3BB.D031296C-ON8825693E.00796D96@HEALTHNET.COM>u   Kevin Handy wrote:  A >I'm trying to do a compile (Large VaxBasic program on a VAX3100)d# >and am getting the unhelpful error  > & >    %SYSTEM-F-EXQUOTA, exceeded quota >eD >but I don't know which quota has been exceeded. I'vr tried boosting? >up all the user quotas for this account, but haven't fixed thep >error yet.l >i? >How do I figure out which quota is getting exceeded so I don't * >have to keep randomally adjusting quotas?    K Hi Kevin. Don't know. Maybe this will help, it's a really ugly little piecepD of DCL I threw together once and never got around to cleaning up. No& heckling from the gallery, please! :-)   Shane    $! QUOTA.COM $!- $! Usage: @QUOTA pid_to_monitor scan_intervalr $!* $! Example:    @QUOTA 2160A514 00:00:00.50 $!I $! The example will check and display quota usage twice a second. Defaulte $! interval is two seconds.- $! $r $ csi = "[" $ cls = "[2J" $h
 $ PID = P1 $ IF P2 .NES. "" $ THEN $    LOOPTIME = P2 $ ELSE $    LOOPTIME = "00:00:02" $ ENDIFn $t* $ WSAUTHEXT = F$GETJPI( PID, "WSAUTHEXT" )$ $ WSPEAK = F$GETJPI( PID, "WSPEAK" )& $ WSQUOTA = F$GETJPI( PID, "WSQUOTA" )$ $ WSSIZE = F$GETJPI( PID, "WSSIZE" ) $ WSAUTHEXT_M = 0  $ WSEXTENT_M = 0 $ WSPEAK_M = 0 $ WSQUOTA_M = 0  $ WSSIZE_M = 0 $i  $ TQLM = F$GETJPI( PID, "TQLM" )" $ BIOLM = F$GETJPI( PID, "BIOLM" )" $ DIOLM = F$GETJPI( PID, "DIOLM" )" $ BYTLM = F$GETJPI( PID, "BYTLM" )" $ ASTLM = F$GETJPI( PID, "ASTLM" )" $ ENQLM = F$GETJPI( PID, "ENQLM" ) $ TQCNT = 0  $ BIOCNT = 0 $ DIOCNT = 0 $ BYTCNT = 0 $ ASTCNT = 0 $ ENQCNT = 0
 $ TQCNT_M = 0a $ BIOCNT_M = 0 $ DIOCNT_M = 0 $ BYTCNT_M = 0 $ ASTCNT_M = 0 $ ENQCNT_M = 0 $i* $ PAGFILCNT = F$GETJPI( PID, "PAGFILCNT" ) $ PAGFILCNT_M = 0e $p $ loop:p $t8 $ IF WSEXTENT .GT. WSEXTENT_M THEN WSEXTENT_M = WSEXTENT0 $ IF WSSIZE .GT. WSSIZE_M THEN WSSIZE_M = WSSIZE< $ IF PAGFILCNT .GT. PAGFILCNT_M THEN PAGFILCNT_M = PAGFILCNT, $ IF TQCNT .GT. TQCNT_M THEN TQCNT_M = TQCNT0 $ IF BIOCNT .GT. BIOCNT_M THEN BIOCNT_M = BIOCNT0 $ IF DIOCNT .GT. DIOCNT_M THEN DIOCNT_M = DIOCNT0 $ IF BYTCNT .GT. BYTCNT_M THEN BYTCNT_M = BYTCNT0 $ IF ASTCNT .GT. ASTCNT_M THEN ASTCNT_M = ASTCNT0 $ IF ENQCNT .GT. ENQCNT_M THEN ENQCNT_M = ENQCNT $e$ $ P_STATE = F$GETJPI( PID, "STATE" )( $ WSEXTENT = F$GETJPI( PID, "WSEXTENT" )$ $ WSSIZE = F$GETJPI( PID, "WSSIZE" )* $ PAGFILCNT = F$GETJPI( PID, "PAGFILCNT" )) $ TQCNT = TQLM - F$GETJPI( PID, "TQCNT" )a, $ BIOCNT = BIOLM - F$GETJPI( PID, "BIOCNT" ), $ DIOCNT = DIOLM - F$GETJPI( PID, "DIOCNT" ), $ BYTCNT = BYTLM - F$GETJPI( PID, "BYTCNT" ), $ ASTCNT = ASTLM - F$GETJPI( PID, "ASTCNT" ), $ ENQCNT = ENQLM - F$GETJPI( PID, "ENQCNT" ) $a% $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT CSI + "0;0H" + clsp $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$TIME()l $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT ""L; $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "Process : " + F$GETJPI( PID, "PRCNAM" )o= $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "Image   : " + F$GETJPI( PID, "IMAGNAME" )a) $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "State   : " + P_STATEp $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT ""nF $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "TQCNT   : ''TQCNT'        Peak ''TQCNT_M'/''TQLM'"H $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "BYTCNT  : ''BYTCNT'       Peak ''BYTCNT_M'/''BYTLM'"H $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "BIOCNT  : ''BIOCNT'       Peak ''BIOCNT_M'/''BIOLM'"H $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "DIOCNT  : ''DIOCNT'       Peak ''DIOCNT_M'/''DIOLM'"H $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "ASTCNT  : ''ASTCNT'       Peak ''ASTCNT_M'/''ASTLM'"H $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "ENQCNT  : ''ENQCNT'       Peak ''ENQCNT_M'/''ENQLM'" $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "" S $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "WSEXTENT: ''WSEXTENT'          Peak ''WSEXTENT_M'/''WSAUTHEXT'"nJ $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT "WSSIZE  : ''WSSIZE'       Peak ''WSSIZE_M'/''WSQUOTA'" $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT ""d $i $ WAIT 'LOOPTIME'e $ GOTO LOOPo   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 03:06:06 GMTe! From: Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net>n- Subject: Why couldn't linux read a vms drive?*' Message-ID: <399CA839.796E64AF@vrx.net>   E I mentioned this briefly in another post. but I thought I'd break offo! the thread into a seperate thing.m  H Linux has support for all sorts of volumes of just about every major OS.  H Linux supports just about every filesystem known to man. It can read and
 write justB about every hard drive from every OS on the planet. HPFS, NT, Dos,E Win95/98, even Apple (MAC), OS/2, Solaris, SCO, BSD, and even Amiga !e  E If it has this much power, and all the code is there to look at, I've  beenE wondering why can't Linux at least READ a Vax or Alpha (VMS) volume ?dF It should be technically possible, the ground work should all be there already, butC I don't really know, see, I haven't been able to look at the sourcee listings yet (blatant plug!)p   B.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:09:58 -0400e, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>1 Subject: Re: Why couldn't linux read a vms drive?r> Message-ID: <hshubs-A9BC5E.23095817082000@news.mindspring.com>  D In article <399CA839.796E64AF@vrx.net>, Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net>  wrote:  F >I mentioned this briefly in another post. but I thought I'd break off" >the thread into a seperate thing.  = I don't know if Linux has the ability to read ODS-2 or ODS-5.e   -- cK "People are the only mirror we have to see ourselves in.  The domain of all L meaning.  All virtue, all evil, are contained only in people.  There is noneN in the universe at large.  Solitary confinement is a punishment in every humanH culture" -- Countess Cordelia Naismith Vorkosigan (Lois McMaster Bujold)   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.460 ************************