1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 19 Aug 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 462       Contents: Re: 100 MB/sec on 500au  Re: 100 MB/sec on 500au  Re: 100 MB/sec on 500au  Re: 100 MB/sec on 500au  Re: 100 MB/sec on 500au  Re: ??== DCPS 1.8 available.# Analyze/error : intervening entries  Re: Big AlphaServer Sale Re: Big AlphaServer Sale. Re: bizarre disappearing mouse pointer problem Changing address on MV3100 Changing address on MV3100 Clusters versus disk arrays  Re: Clusters versus disk arrays $ Re: CONDIST [was DCPS 1.8 available]	 cvwd test  Re: From VMS to NT Re: From VMS to NT Re: From VMS to NT Re: From VMS to NT Re: From VMS to NTI Fw: [davidism] Fwd: FW: PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE READ! - We'll see if itworks M Re: Fw: [davidism] Fwd: FW: PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE READ! - We'll see if itworks 2 Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD2 Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD2 Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD< Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS systems (was Re: dose vms run on intel)< Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS systems (was Re: dose vms run on intel)< Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS systems (was Re: dose vms run on intel)< Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS systems (was Re: dose vms run on intel)< Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS systems (was Re: dose vms run on intel)( HOW DO YOU UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST !!, Re: HOW DO YOU UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST !! Re: Mass adding of users?  NAMRES in CMUIP  Re: NAMRES in CMUIP  Re: New KZP? Re: OpenVMS Web Forum  Re: OpenVMS Web Forum  Re: OpenVMS Web Forum , Platform migration - password extractions?!?0 Re: Platform migration - password extractions?!?0 Re: Platform migration - password extractions?!?* Problem using XV with VAX 4000 Model 90's.. Re: Problem using XV with VAX 4000 Model 90's.. Re: Problem using XV with VAX 4000 Model 90's.. Re: Problem using XV with VAX 4000 Model 90's.! Re: Sony MO on VAXstation 4000/60  split large files . RE: Taking a MicroVax 3100-90 out of a cluster. RE: Taking a MicroVax 3100-90 out of a cluster* Re: Toshiba CD-ROM and VMS Hobbiest CD-ROM Re: What quota was exceeded ( Re: Why couldn't linux read a vms drive?( Re: Why couldn't linux read a vms drive?( Re: Why couldn't linux read a vms drive?( Re: Why couldn't linux read a vms drive?( Re: X terminals that speak DECnet or LAT( Re: X terminals that speak DECnet or LAT( Re: X terminals that speak DECnet or LAT( Re: X terminals that speak DECnet or LAT( RE: X terminals that speak DECnet or LAT  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 13:40:19 -0400  From: quayle@pobox.com  Subject: Re: 100 MB/sec on 500au. Message-ID: <399D3CC3.4343.15B5C5F4@localhost>  B (I'm copying D-Link's tech support on this, because I'm using a D-' Link DSS-8+.  Maybe it's the problem??)     E Thanks for far for everyone's help.  I still can't get this thing to  B work in 100 MB, however.  By the way, SRM will tell you the valid  choices for EWA0_MODE:       >>>set ewa0_mode x!     bad value - valid selections:              Twisted-Pair%             Full Duplex, Twisted-Pair              AUI              BNC              Fast              FastFD (Full Duplex)             Auto-Negotiate  = "BNC" isn't really a valid choice, because there's not a BNC   connector on the machine.     > I found out that there was a firmware upgrade for SRM console:A (ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/Alpha/firmware/).  One of the  F things in the release notes was that auto negotiate was fixed. When I ! select SET EWA0_MODE AUTO, I get:        >>>set ewa0_mode auto "     Change mode to auto negotiate #     Auto Negotiation restart failed #     Auto Negotiation restart failed #     Auto Negotiation restart failed   5     ewa0: link failed : Using  100BaseTX: full duplex   E It leaves the interface in 100 MB duplex.  The lights on the network  . switch confirm that.  However, it never works.    @ In fact, I've tried FULL (full duplex, twisted pair), FAST, and E FASTFD.  All light the appropriate lights on the network switch, but   fail to communicate.    < I also tried LANCP after the system boots.  You can specify C /SPEED=100 and /FULL_DUPLEX.  However, doing either or both causes  D the system to hang after 30 seconds because it loses communications  with the other cluster members.     D To get operational again, I've switched back to TWISTED-PAIR (10 MB D mode).  But that's not the long-term solution.  Could it be a cable  problem?     --Stan  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------   Date: 18 Aug 2000 21:48:08 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)  Subject: Re: 100 MB/sec on 500au, Message-ID: <8nkauo$c1c@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  G In article <399D3CC3.4343.15B5C5F4@localhost>, quayle@pobox.com writes:  > ? >I found out that there was a firmware upgrade for SRM console: B >(ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/Alpha/firmware/).  One of the G >things in the release notes was that auto negotiate was fixed. When I  " >select SET EWA0_MODE AUTO, I get: >  >    >>>set ewa0_mode auto# >    Change mode to auto negotiate  $ >    Auto Negotiation restart failed$ >    Auto Negotiation restart failed$ >    Auto Negotiation restart failed > 6 >    ewa0: link failed : Using  100BaseTX: full duplex > F >It leaves the interface in 100 MB duplex.  The lights on the network / >switch confirm that.  However, it never works.  >  > A >In fact, I've tried FULL (full duplex, twisted pair), FAST, and  F >FASTFD.  All light the appropriate lights on the network switch, but  >fail to communicate.   H Check your cable.  For 100BaseT to work you need a cable rated for that K speed.  10baseT cables will generally not work and the failure symptoms are  pretty much what you're seeing.    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech     ------------------------------   Date: 18 Aug 2000 15:17:34 PDTT From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515)  Subject: Re: 100 MB/sec on 500au3 Message-ID: <49vsdwkmd7Ou@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>   / In article <399D3CC3.4343.15B5C5F4@localhost>,       	quayle@pobox.com writes:   H         In the past we've  seena  number  of  posts and DSNlink articlesH     saying  that auto-negotiate often doesn't work depending on which ofH     various switches is being used.  We've had good luck on  our  AlphasH     setting the appropriate ewx0_mode variable(s) to FastFD.  [Do recallH     that you must power-cycle the system (or use INIT at the >>> prompt,H     I don't recall which) after you change a variable in order for it toH     be saved and used.] But _also_, we've made sure the networking folksH     set  the  _switch_  to  FastFD, _not_ auto-negotiate.  Can you checkH     with your networking folks what the setting is on the switch end and+     ask them to put it in Fast Full-duplex?            -Ken --  M  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Edu :  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924:  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515N  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------B  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 22:30:31 GMT  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>  Subject: Re: 100 MB/sec on 500au' Message-ID: <399DB907.132E2B1D@home.nl>    quayle@pobox.com wrote:  > D > (I'm copying D-Link's tech support on this, because I'm using a D-) > Link DSS-8+.  Maybe it's the problem??)  > F > Thanks for far for everyone's help.  I still can't get this thing toC > work in 100 MB, however.  By the way, SRM will tell you the valid  > choices for EWA0_MODE: >  >     >>>set ewa0_mode x# >     bad value - valid selections:  >             Twisted-Pair' >             Full Duplex, Twisted-Pair  >             AUI  >             BNC  >             Fast" >             FastFD (Full Duplex) >             Auto-Negotiate > > > "BNC" isn't really a valid choice, because there's not a BNC > connector on the machine.  > @ > I found out that there was a firmware upgrade for SRM console:B > (ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/Alpha/firmware/).  One of theG > things in the release notes was that auto negotiate was fixed. When I # > select SET EWA0_MODE AUTO, I get:  >  >     >>>set ewa0_mode auto # >     Change mode to auto negotiate % >     Auto Negotiation restart failed % >     Auto Negotiation restart failed % >     Auto Negotiation restart failed  > 7 >     ewa0: link failed : Using  100BaseTX: full duplex  > F > It leaves the interface in 100 MB duplex.  The lights on the network0 > switch confirm that.  However, it never works. > A > In fact, I've tried FULL (full duplex, twisted pair), FAST, and F > FASTFD.  All light the appropriate lights on the network switch, but > fail to communicate. > = > I also tried LANCP after the system boots.  You can specify D > /SPEED=100 and /FULL_DUPLEX.  However, doing either or both causesE > the system to hang after 30 seconds because it loses communications ! > with the other cluster members.  > E > To get operational again, I've switched back to TWISTED-PAIR (10 MB E > mode).  But that's not the long-term solution.  Could it be a cable 
 > problem?  G Yes, all cabling and all connectors should be UTP cat 5 minimal. Usualy 3 the printing on the cable tells you if it is cat 5.      >  > --Stan >  > ----------I > Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671 3 > 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 ? > Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 16:38:31 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: 100 MB/sec on 500au- Message-ID: <399D9EC7.55F47B8F@tsoft-inc.com>    quayle@pobox.com wrote:  > D > (I'm copying D-Link's tech support on this, because I'm using a D-) > Link DSS-8+.  Maybe it's the problem??)   N Is this device supported by VMS, ie; does the VMS driver(s) support the D-Link card?   F > Thanks for far for everyone's help.  I still can't get this thing toC > work in 100 MB, however.  By the way, SRM will tell you the valid  > choices for EWA0_MODE: >  >     >>>set ewa0_mode x# >     bad value - valid selections:  >             Twisted-Pair' >             Full Duplex, Twisted-Pair  >             AUI  >             BNC  >             Fast" >             FastFD (Full Duplex) >             Auto-Negotiate > > > "BNC" isn't really a valid choice, because there's not a BNC > connector on the machine.   N Well, this isn't a list based upon your hardware, this is a list of selectionsK the software (firmware) is set up to allow.  You might not have AUI either.   @ > I found out that there was a firmware upgrade for SRM console:B > (ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/Alpha/firmware/).  One of theG > things in the release notes was that auto negotiate was fixed. When I # > select SET EWA0_MODE AUTO, I get:  >  >     >>>set ewa0_mode auto # >     Change mode to auto negotiate % >     Auto Negotiation restart failed % >     Auto Negotiation restart failed % >     Auto Negotiation restart failed  > 7 >     ewa0: link failed : Using  100BaseTX: full duplex  > F > It leaves the interface in 100 MB duplex.  The lights on the network0 > switch confirm that.  However, it never works. > A > In fact, I've tried FULL (full duplex, twisted pair), FAST, and F > FASTFD.  All light the appropriate lights on the network switch, but > fail to communicate. > = > I also tried LANCP after the system boots.  You can specify D > /SPEED=100 and /FULL_DUPLEX.  However, doing either or both causesE > the system to hang after 30 seconds because it loses communications ! > with the other cluster members.  > E > To get operational again, I've switched back to TWISTED-PAIR (10 MB E > mode).  But that's not the long-term solution.  Could it be a cable 
 > problem?  O The first question I would ask is if VMS has a driver for this device.  If not, G some generic driver may do 10baseT, but may not be set up for 100baseT.    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Aug 2000 15:26:04 PDTT From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515)% Subject: Re: ??== DCPS 1.8 available. 3 Message-ID: <uX+DsI2j$2VG@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>   E In article <aus-1808001017270001@wvia71.virologie.uni-wuerzburg.de>,  3     	aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de (Hans M. Aus) writes: 5 > In article <aRAN7fr$McU1@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>, F > Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: > 926-3515) wrote: >  > ...  >>  K >>         List of supported printers?  I  don't  have the SPD to hand.  Is 9 >>     there a particular printer you'd be interested in?    H > I'm still looking for reliable replacements for our LN08 printers. TheL > new  Xerox N2000/3000 series printers seem like interesting possibilities.  H         None of the Xerox printers  are supported, AFAIK.  Many printersH     will  work  just fine as "unrecognized" under DCPS, but I've  had  aH     great deal of trouble trying to print to various Xerox  printers  on0     site (that is, I _haven't_ been successful).  H         OK, I just  found  the  SPD  and  see  that,  besides GENICOM anH     Digital/Compaq  printers,  a variety of HP LaserJets  and  TektronixH     Phaser printers are supported.  Xerox doesn't appear  in  the  list.6     Given my experience (see above), I'd avoid them...           -Ken --  M  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Edu :  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924:  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515N  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------B  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 20:53:32 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> , Subject: Analyze/error : intervening entries, Message-ID: <399DDA7E.FF2D1A83@videotron.ca>  N Why does Analize/error decide to postpone the listing of some errorlog entries until the end ?   7 What is the logic behing having "intervening entries" ?   N What causes one entry to be listed in order and another entry to be considered( "intervening" and be listed at the end ?   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Aug 2000 20:13:45 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)! Subject: Re: Big AlphaServer Sale , Message-ID: <8nk5dp$6v0@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  d In article <8nbuj2$chvs$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: >   >Stuart, Ed wrote in message ...L >>The Q may not be able to sell VMS AlphaServers, but it looks like they are; >>able to sell Tru64 AlphaServers.  See the write-up below.  >>M >I'll take some offense to this.  We quite easily sell VMS AlphaServers.  Lot K >of 'em, and more all the time.  What you describe below is not exactly the E >VMS sweet spot any longer (which is too bad) - that is - large scale # >technical (in fact MPP) computing.   F VMS has a very, very small sweet spot.  It doesn't include small scaleB technical computing, or small and medium scale business computing,J basically anything where you don't have a data center and wads of money to spend.    > The main factors that drove driving OpenVMS out of this marketI (specifically, technical computing), and act to keep it out still,  are:    F   1.  Digital let key aspects of OpenVMS performance fall 2 orders of H       magnitude behind the competition and Compaq has yet to repair thisA       damage.  (They are working on it.) The worst areas are pipe (       performance and especially "disk" H       performance (due to the absence of a usable disk cache).  Certain K       aspects of network performance are also inferior, but only by factorsAQ       of 2 or 3. CPU performance is comparable between Tru64, Linux, and OpenVMS. H       OpenVMS is much better in terms of management and the stability ofH       tools like Backup - but when you're that slow, such factors aren't$       going to make any difference.   F       In my hands common "technical" code running on VMS can easily beJ       100x slower (if disk IO is limiting) than that of competing OS's andG       is rarely even within a factor of 2 or 3 in speed.  The only time N       VMS is ever competitive is for programs that do very little IO and spendJ       all of their time CPU bound.   (And by all of this I'm referring to I       different OS's on identical hardware.)  The product is wrapped in aEJ       mantle of quality but for typical tasks it's dog slow.  Using VMS inG       this kind of environment is kind of like driving around town in aDJ       tank - you're completely safe but it costs a fortune for gas and you       top out at 20 mph.  F   2.  Tru64 costs less than OpenVMS absolutely (by a small amount) andK       Linux is free (but costs more to support than Tru64). Tru64 and LinuxOF       work just fine for scientific computing using NFS and YP but youE       simply must have cluster licenses to get N VMS machines to workLA       together well, and those licenses are very very expensive. nG       Take (1) and divide by (2) and you find the key factor - terriblep'       performance at a very high price.   K   3.  For really parallel work you must have PVM, MPI, and the like.  TheseoH       essential tools are either not available or are in a poor state ofH       support on OpenVMS.  That's all the more annoying because OpenVMS H       clusters are intrinsically better designed to support this sort ofJ       parallel infrastructure - ie, cluster locks are not an afterthought.  ; And assuming Compaq ever gets a handle on 1-3 there is also9  A   4.  Having been uncompetitive for so long virtually all of the eE       programs (technical or otherwise) now expect to build in a Unix B       environment.  OpenVMS does not provide a sufficiently Unixy B       environment to build software easily - making it very costlyH       in terms of labor to move software onto the platform.  "Technical"D       software doesn't tend to make all that much use of OS specificH       APIs, so getting it to run once you get beyond the build procedureE       is often very little work.  (Threaded code is very easy - older->       fork() based code can be very hard to deal with though.)  L       (I'm ignoring all windows and Mac software because for all intents and?       purposes that cannot be moved to either Unix or OpenVMS.)t  H I dispute the assertion that this is a problem solely in the "technical"J market.  There is very little difference between "technical" software and H many types of "business" software, and these same factors above keep VMSG out of many markets.   They don't keep VMS out of the fortune 500 data oD center market, which is lucrative, but not where 95% of the world's  computing dollars dollars go.   J I'd also like to note that it is my observation that the only people goingJ with N Tru64 systems are those with money to burn (national labs, Celera.)E Anybody who has budget constraints and also needs good floating pointrJ performance (and so can justify Alpha) tends to go with Linux.  But CompaqJ is doing a rotten job of keeping the Alpha up to speed so I don't know howK longer they'll be able to hold onto the Linux end of the market.  The small H Alpha building blocks (those with best performance/price) have not had aF speed upgrade in ages (the DS10 is still at 466 Mhz) and in the last 6K months the speed of Athlons and PIII's has more than doubled.  6 months agonK the DS10 beowulf we purchased made sense - but today I'd probably go with a & heap of dual processor PIIIs instead.    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduT? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 16:48:12 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>! Subject: Re: Big AlphaServer Sales- Message-ID: <399DA10C.4F56428C@tsoft-inc.com>    David Mathog wrote:  > f > In article <8nbuj2$chvs$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: > >e" > >Stuart, Ed wrote in message ...N > >>The Q may not be able to sell VMS AlphaServers, but it looks like they are= > >>able to sell Tru64 AlphaServers.  See the write-up below.2 > >>O > >I'll take some offense to this.  We quite easily sell VMS AlphaServers.  Lot M > >of 'em, and more all the time.  What you describe below is not exactly the1G > >VMS sweet spot any longer (which is too bad) - that is - large scaleR% > >technical (in fact MPP) computing.k > H > VMS has a very, very small sweet spot.  It doesn't include small scaleD > technical computing, or small and medium scale business computing,L > basically anything where you don't have a data center and wads of money to > spend.  O Hmmmm....  then I should advise all my small and medium size business customerssM that they shuld scrap the solutions that are working so well for them?  TheseoM are rather stingy people, without wads of money, and won't like the idea thattC they will have to buy new hardware, since VMS is just not for them.a  @ > The main factors that drove driving OpenVMS out of this marketJ > (specifically, technical computing), and act to keep it out still,  are: > G >   1.  Digital let key aspects of OpenVMS performance fall 2 orders of J >       magnitude behind the competition and Compaq has yet to repair thisC >       damage.  (They are working on it.) The worst areas are pipeF) >       performance and especially "disk"fI >       performance (due to the absence of a usable disk cache).  CertainmM >       aspects of network performance are also inferior, but only by factorsgS >       of 2 or 3. CPU performance is comparable between Tru64, Linux, and OpenVMS.eJ >       OpenVMS is much better in terms of management and the stability ofJ >       tools like Backup - but when you're that slow, such factors aren't% >       going to make any difference.u  8 Makes a whole bunch of difference to many people I know.  H >       In my hands common "technical" code running on VMS can easily beL >       100x slower (if disk IO is limiting) than that of competing OS's andI >       is rarely even within a factor of 2 or 3 in speed.  The only time P >       VMS is ever competitive is for programs that do very little IO and spendK >       all of their time CPU bound.   (And by all of this I'm referring touK >       different OS's on identical hardware.)  The product is wrapped in aaL >       mantle of quality but for typical tasks it's dog slow.  Using VMS inI >       this kind of environment is kind of like driving around town in a_L >       tank - you're completely safe but it costs a fortune for gas and you >       top out at 20 mph.  ? Got plenty of people who praise the speed of their VMS systems.   H >   2.  Tru64 costs less than OpenVMS absolutely (by a small amount) andM >       Linux is free (but costs more to support than Tru64). Tru64 and Linux9H >       work just fine for scientific computing using NFS and YP but youG >       simply must have cluster licenses to get N VMS machines to workeB >       together well, and those licenses are very very expensive.I >       Take (1) and divide by (2) and you find the key factor - terrible ) >       performance at a very high price.M > M >   3.  For really parallel work you must have PVM, MPI, and the like.  These J >       essential tools are either not available or are in a poor state ofI >       support on OpenVMS.  That's all the more annoying because OpenVMSnJ >       clusters are intrinsically better designed to support this sort ofL >       parallel infrastructure - ie, cluster locks are not an afterthought. > = > And assuming Compaq ever gets a handle on 1-3 there is also  > B >   4.  Having been uncompetitive for so long virtually all of theG >       programs (technical or otherwise) now expect to build in a UnixpC >       environment.  OpenVMS does not provide a sufficiently UnixycD >       environment to build software easily - making it very costlyJ >       in terms of labor to move software onto the platform.  "Technical"F >       software doesn't tend to make all that much use of OS specificJ >       APIs, so getting it to run once you get beyond the build procedureG >       is often very little work.  (Threaded code is very easy - oldero@ >       fork() based code can be very hard to deal with though.) > N >       (I'm ignoring all windows and Mac software because for all intents andA >       purposes that cannot be moved to either Unix or OpenVMS.)h  3 No one runs any Unix code.  Don't trust most of it.k  J > I dispute the assertion that this is a problem solely in the "technical"K > market.  There is very little difference between "technical" software andrJ > many types of "business" software, and these same factors above keep VMSH > out of many markets.   They don't keep VMS out of the fortune 500 dataE > center market, which is lucrative, but not where 95% of the world'sg > computing dollars dollars go.s > L > I'd also like to note that it is my observation that the only people goingL > with N Tru64 systems are those with money to burn (national labs, Celera.)G > Anybody who has budget constraints and also needs good floating pointaL > performance (and so can justify Alpha) tends to go with Linux.  But CompaqL > is doing a rotten job of keeping the Alpha up to speed so I don't know howM > longer they'll be able to hold onto the Linux end of the market.  The smallSJ > Alpha building blocks (those with best performance/price) have not had aH > speed upgrade in ages (the DS10 is still at 466 Mhz) and in the last 6M > months the speed of Athlons and PIII's has more than doubled.  6 months agojM > the DS10 beowulf we purchased made sense - but today I'd probably go with a ' > heap of dual processor PIIIs instead.i  M Actually, I believe there is a 600 or 666 or thereabouts MHz DS10 system now.t  
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu @ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 22:20:26 GMT  From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>7 Subject: Re: bizarre disappearing mouse pointer probleme' Message-ID: <399DB6AA.722FEA9F@home.nl>,   > H > I too have experienced this.  You need to reinit the box.  The >>>initG > command seems to correct this.  I would like to have my boxes perform(H > the equivalent of the >>>init whenever they reboot but I have not madeH > much progress.  BTW, I want to >>>init to get the machine in a *known*H > state when I'm doing driver/execlet development; not so much as I have > persistent mouse problems.    G There is a setting in the SRM console that will do a Init when you booteD the system. Can't remember which setting, and since SRM consoles areD different on every type of machine and SRM version, you will have to: check out your specific Alpha to see which setting it is.     , > In fact, I can only ever recall losing theH > mouse pointer once.  (Touching wood)  Now watch, it'll probably happen > with the next boot! ;) >  > --Q > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 04:12:51 GMTo) From: mymail@hotmail.com (Balexi Yurguat)t# Subject: Changing address on MV3100 3 Message-ID: <7Pnn5.5077$Ds1.23125@jekyl.ab.tac.net>r   Anyone?   - How would I change my _dkb100: to dkb400: ???t   Colinm   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 23:45:31 -0500 (CDT)  From: sms@antinode.org# Subject: Changing address on MV3100t) Message-ID: <00081823453186@antinode.org>   ) From: mymail@HOTMAIL.COM (Balexi Yurguat)w/ > How would I change my _dkb100: to dkb400: ???   +    Move the SCSI ID jumper over two places.u      Why do you care?   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)gC    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work) G    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work) 9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)r   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 21:40:17 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>@$ Subject: Clusters versus disk arrays, Message-ID: <399DE56E.E9C89C7B@videotron.ca>   Sanity check please:  N I am aware of the volume shadowing capabilities of VMS which make the building* of a disaster tolerant site nice and easy.  J But I came to wonder. What if a disk array manufacturer were to build diskF arrays that have volume shadowing between two arrays linked by fiber ?  K Would this not allow a basic NT server to be built into a disaster tolerant L system with disks shadowed by the disk array (independantly of how primitiveM the operating system might be) and just have the remove server be in stand-by  mode ?    Do such arrays exist right now ?  K The main difference is the lack of a DLM, right ? How much of a drawback isSN this for database systems ?  Don't many database systems have their home grown5 DLMs anyways ? Do such DLMs work over network links ?s  K If a "NT cluster" is really needed to do this, and if NT Clusters only work @ through a shared SCSI, can SCSI be bridged between 2 buildings ?    M A former customer for whom I had built a disaster tolerant VMS system will be.H forced to migrate away from VMS in a year or two when the application noN longer exists on VMS (ST400) and I'd like some idea on whether they'll be ableY to build an NT based disaster tolerant system with whatever solutions might be available.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 01:08:53 -0400-' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>e( Subject: Re: Clusters versus disk arrays( Message-ID: <8nl4lc$8d2$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:399DE56E.E9C89C7B@videotron.ca... > Sanity check please: >:G > I am aware of the volume shadowing capabilities of VMS which make the  building, > of a disaster tolerant site nice and easy. >rL > But I came to wonder. What if a disk array manufacturer were to build diskH > arrays that have volume shadowing between two arrays linked by fiber ?  L I'm not sure you need anything so special:  doesn't NT support Fibre ChannelF already?  If so, ftDisk or Win2K Volume Manager are already capable ofH software-mirroring between a local drive and one up to 10 km away that aG standby server at the same remote location (or somewhere else, for thatdK matter) can take over if the primary server fails.  I don't know that NT orSL Win2K clustering facilities will work in such a configuration (though if theE FC can masquerade as SCSI for that purpose they might), but otherwise G there's nothing magical about having the remote server recover the filelG system after the primary fails (as long as the primary is guaranteed to K remain dead...) and application restart and take-over of IP address restartb7 can just be explicitly scripted if not fully automated.m   >gD > Would this not allow a basic NT server to be built into a disaster tolerantD > system with disks shadowed by the disk array (independantly of how	 primitiveiF > the operating system might be) and just have the remove server be in stand-by > mode ? >r" > Do such arrays exist right now ? > J > The main difference is the lack of a DLM, right ? How much of a drawback isJ > this for database systems ?  Don't many database systems have their home grownd7 > DLMs anyways ? Do such DLMs work over network links ?s  G DLMs just aren't necessary unless you want true concurrent (rather than G failed-over) disk access, a distributed (vs. centralized at the server) E cache, or application-level facilities that coordinate among multipleeH concurrent instances on different nodes (vs., again, simply failing over6 such that only one instance is ever active at a time).   >nH > If a "NT cluster" is really needed to do this, and if NT Clusters only workB > through a shared SCSI, can SCSI be bridged between 2 buildings ? >o >kL > A former customer for whom I had built a disaster tolerant VMS system will beJ > forced to migrate away from VMS in a year or two when the application noK > longer exists on VMS (ST400) and I'd like some idea on whether they'll bey ableG > to build an NT based disaster tolerant system with whatever solutionsd might be available.t  I Disaster tolerance does not imply any need for concurrent disk-sharing or I distributed lock management:  those features are only relevant to scaling K issues, not simple ability to fail over operations to another site that wasfL previously not involved (though it could have been doing some *other* usefulL work:  binary, symmetric fail-over pairs are fine as long as each can handle, both loads by itself should the other fail).   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 10:03:08 -04006* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>- Subject: Re: CONDIST [was DCPS 1.8 available]u- Message-ID: <399D421C.42BA3738@tsoft-inc.com>t   quayle@pobox.com wrote:  > L > >     manufacturing (or words to that effect) and will appear on the  next > >     CONDIST. > ? > I used to access to the VAX and Alpha CONDIST, but none of myi > contacts subscribe anymore.p > E > Is it possible to buy a one-time set of the latest CONDIST, and how  > do I go about ordering it?  K The last time I needed such, it was still available.  Maybe 1-2 years ago. yM Don't remember the part number.  Cost was maybe $600-$700, it's been a while,r8 and I just remember about how much, not the exact price.  M Last time I tried, 1-800-DIGITAL still worked, and pre-sales tech support was  helpful.   Dave   -- a4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 20:17:34 GMTo@ From: Jeff - Coachella Valley Water <cyberunlimited.org@gte.net> Subject: cvwd test' Message-ID: <399D9945.AF57E79B@gte.net>t   test   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 14:00:12 -0400w- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: From VMS to NTr, Message-ID: <399D79A6.4C5F8C7C@videotron.ca>   Glen Martin wrote:G > Hey, twice in a short time span that our SUNny friend has recommendedoH > staying with an OpenVMS solution. As critical as he is of the Q and ofI > VMS advocates, even he knows that companies should stay with a solutione > that works...a   <devil's advocate mode ON>  J That is because SUN knows it stands a much better chance of stealing a VMSE customers than it has stealing a Microsoft one. Hence, it it to SUN's,M advantage to prevent migrations to Microsoft. The more folks stay on "legacy"rL hardware, the more  prey SUN can circle and pounce upon as soon as they show signs of weakness...   :-)a   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2000 13:59:05 -0400/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)o Subject: Re: From VMS to NT * Message-ID: <8njth9$aja$1@lisa.gemair.com>  * In article <399D6C7F.84F25EBA@uk.sun.com>,D Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: >  >[big snip]  >tC >It is strange that you seem unable to conduct a discussion withoutm> >attacking Sun even in a thread where someone who you think isA >a Sun marketeer is actually supporting the retention of OpenVMS.  >I  B What an incredible misrepresentation of what I've said here.  I'veC had many debates with you here in which I didn't attack Sun.  Spin,s lie, spin, lie, spin.e  E I can even remember a couple of occasions that I praised Sun and I've   _often_ been critical of Compaq.  A What's true is that you can't seem to post in comp.os.vms without0? attacking Compaq.  It was so unusual that you recently advised uA someone to stick with OpenVMS that it gathered comment from othero posters.  D >It makes me think that you arn't really reading what I post you are; >simply flaming me because of the fact that I work for Sun.:  B I caught you recently not reading what was being posted.  Remember@ when you attacked the poster for saying that OpenVMS was as open= as Solaris when in fact he was saying the opposite?  But you l3 quickly elided that part from further discussion...S  B A fine debating technique there.  Accuse others of your own faults5 so that they look foolish making the accusation back.o  @ Someone who takes such care in debate is obviously doing it withA an agenda.  It's clear to me, at least, that you are here to beat B up on Compaq and OpenVMS.  Why else would you follow us so closely? when you claim to have no interest in OpenVMS as they aren't ind your shops?    >n >Regards >Andrew Harrison >Enterprise IT Architect >h >d >v   -Jordan Hendersonm jordan@greenapple.comt   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2000 14:30:19 -0400/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)u Subject: Re: From VMS to NTk* Message-ID: <8njvbr$ckg$1@lisa.gemair.com>  * In article <399D62C8.E1229DD7@uk.sun.com>,D Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: >Jordan Henderson wrote: >i- >> In article <399D1C07.D6112B46@uk.sun.com>, G >> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:  >> >David A Froble wrote:c >> >. >> >> Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >> >>  >> >> [snip] >> >> S >> >> Almost brings new meaning to the saying "The enemy of my enemy is my friend".e	 >> >> :-)d >> >>h >> > >> < huge rant snipped > >>= >> Combine this with other evidence, like your admission thati: >> you work in the same office with x-DEC salesmen who are< >> now Sun Salemen, that you are sighted doing sales support4 >> gives me a picture of a Sales/Marketing Engineer. >> > ? >Sure its a big building 4 floors lots of people. Sadly for youa; >the guy who sits next to me is a Java developer and the in 7 >the next cubicle is a ex-DEC cluster support engineer.  >   = Too bad that deja doesn't have old archives right now.  IIRC, ? you said at the time that the ex-DEC salesman, now Sun salesmann sat right behind you.r  : >There are sales people down the other end of the building7 >and some of them are ex DEC which is hardly suprising.  >y; >> As far as I'm concerned, Sun Marketing is not welcome in( > > >> comp.os.vms and I'll treat them with the contempt that they >> deserve.e >> > = >Really, perhaps you should treat the Compaq marketing peopleiA >for example Kerry who by your definition is clearly in marketingn> >with the contempt you appear to hold all marketing people in. >r= You haven't been reading closely about my definitions.  Kerry < does say a lot of positive things about Compaq, sure, but he> also is a positive aid to people here, giving them the benefit= of his experience with solutions, ideas and pointers that aidb< them in their deployment and support.  Kerry, in my book, is6 just a Compaq Engineer who is also an OpenVMS booster.  ; Someone who only comes into this group to attack Compaq andV< OpenVMS is something different entirely.  When they work for7 Sun, I suspect an agenda.  Sure, you can point to your y: recent posting where you advised that a customer not leave; OpenVMS for WinNT, but this is a rare thing and only served 4 as a setup for you to later viciously attack Compaq.  ? In any case, as far as I'm concerned, Compaq/OpenVMS marketing t@ is more than welcome here.  One of marketing's primary functions@ is to listen to customers and be an advocate for their products.A This is a good place for OpenVMS Marketing to find OpenVMS users.s? This is not comp.os.convert_from.vms where people on a mission r; to convert people from the poor sinking Compaq/OpenVMS ship ! are welcome (at least not by me).   ? >I am not a marketeer or a sales person, but I have worked with > >both and what is sadly obvious is that the people doing these? >functions from the Compaq end are not at all good at it. It isi@ >also amusing to note that you round on anyone you suspect to be@ >a marketeer while most people in this group complain that there >isn't enough marketing. >f? >Perhaps Compaq and Digital before them did have marketeers butoB >they were frightened off by the people in this group. It would ifC >your prejudices are shared by the rest of the group be a very verya >thankless task. >h< >The more clued on this group may have worked out that blind= >uncritical acceptance of the word according to Compaq hasn't  >actually got them very far.    = I've never taken everything Compaq has to say with uncriticalt= acceptance.  I am, however, very skeptical about what Sun has"  to say about Compaq and OpenVMS.  ? >                            If you want to extinguish any formn< >of dissent and just read the URL's that Kerry posts you and; >believe them implicitly then I would suggest you put me ina >your kill file. >w  = It's funny, but when the David Mathogs or Dachteras, the Bill > Todds or the many others criticize Compaq or point out OpenVMS8 shortcomings here, you don't see me joining the fray in ; a bitter defense to the end of all things Compaq/OpenVMS.   @ Constructive criticism is welcome by me.  Partisans on a mission& to destroy Compaq and OpenVMS are not.  C I won't be adding you to my killfile, just as you are on a mission kD to destroy Compaq and OpenVMS, I'm on a mission to put your spin in < context and attack your obvious lies and misrepresentations.     >Regards >Andrew Harrison >Enterprise IT Architect >e >t >d   -Jordan Hendersonn jordan@greenapple.coml   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 15:17:13 -0400s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>b Subject: Re: From VMS to NTe, Message-ID: <399D8BAD.BC9B81AF@videotron.ca>   Jordan Henderson wrote:e= > Someone who only comes into this group to attack Compaq ands> > OpenVMS is something different entirely.  When they work for > Sun, I suspect an agenda.   M I actually have *some* respect for folks who study their competitor's systemsa: and customer feelings. Know your enemy is a good strategy.  E And I would expect that at least one VMS engineer participates in Sun N newsgroups in the same way that Mr Harrison participates in the VMS newsgroup.N If not, then VMS engineers are more in the dark about what is happening in the other OS arenas.  G Considering that Digital lost a LOT of customers to Sun, it should haveeK studied SUN very carefully and been able to provide factual comparisions oniH why VMS was better instead of simply using "snake oil" vague statements.  H Accusing your competitor of "snake oil" doesn't sway many customers. ButN stating that VMS can do X and SUN won't be able to do X because of the way theJ OS is structured is a much better selling point, especially when a companyW has, as a policy, of selling its OS at a premium because it *beleives*  it is superior.i  L Beleiving your OS is superior is one thing. (urban myth etc), but proving it/ is superior with valid comparisions is another.r  M If Compaq does not keep itself up-to-date with what SUN's LATEST releases andeK plans are, then comparisons, by Compaq, between VMS and SUN are going to belN easily destroyed by SUN when SUN provides the potential customer with the true' picture of the current OS capabilities.-    F Competitor's presence in this newsgroup may not have directly positiveH results, but they can be of value because they are the ones who are mostG likely to point to Compaq propaganda and bring us a good reality check.d  N For instance, imagine a situation where we are given the impression that VMS'sM PIPE command is the first such command in the world and think that VMS is far-L ahead of others in this respect. Mr Harrison would be the first to point outF that the PIPE command is in fact a very late attempt at catching up to1 something UNIX has had for a very long long time.e  M (OK: change "PIPE" with some clustering feature and you'll see how this makesIE it more valuable since us VMS bigots have always thought that VMS was-F unbeatable when it comes to clustering, but the sad fact is that otherL platform's clustering is starting to provide functionality that is far aboveI what many really need. So even though VMS may still have a superiority in2L clustering, it is folks like Andrew that bring in a reality check to wake usQ up to the fact that VMS no longer has exclusive bragging rights about clustering.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 10:26:43 -0400c* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: From VMS to NTc- Message-ID: <399D47A3.A10523CD@tsoft-inc.com>   ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  > David A Froble wrote:e > , > > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > > >hJ > > > NT does not support dumb terminals to my knowledge so you have a few > > > choices. > > >rE > > > 1.       Stay on OpenVMS and upgrade to Oracle 8i (8.1.5(6)) isb > > > apparentlyM > > >           available for OpenVMS. This will allow you to continue to usew
 > > > your# > > >           existing terminals.s > >eQ > > Almost brings new meaning to the saying "The enemy of my enemy is my friend".h > > :-)f > >c > H > In this case yes, I don't have a problem with people using NT or Win32H > when they are the appropriate tool for the job. Sadly for NT this doesH > limit its applicability to some desktop systems and some very limitted > server solutions.d > G > I do have a problem with the idea of changing from a working platformnJ > that does the job to a platform that may or may not do the job simply as! > some form of fashion statement.i > P > I also have a problem with companies like Compaq, IBM and HP who wholeheartelyF > support MS in their attempts to foist completely inadequate productsF > and technology on a largely unsuspecting market when they themselvesE > have access to and know intimately technology and products that are G > the opposite. Compaqs publication of their ludicrous NT TPC-C resultseF > based on a shared nothing DBMS architecture being one such unwelcome > manifestation of this. > G > Dell I excuse because its the only thing they know, the others shouldp4 > be ashamed of themselves because they know better. > F > Sadly that tends to make me regard the whole of Compaq with contemptD > which is something that the members of the OpenVMS and Tru64 teamsK > don't really deserve. I guess I suspect that the NT cancer has penetratedsK > all the way through the organisation which is probably being to paranoid.s > J > So you are right  "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" holds true thoughF > sadly your Friend "Compaq" is in this case your enemy as well, funny > old world isn't it.  > 	 > Regardsa > Andrew Harrison( > Enterprise IT Architectd  O I think you have to classify the PC part of Compaq in the same league as Dell. 2O For the most part, MS is all they know.  Therefore, like it or not, they are asm1 much an enemy of non-MS systems as Dell and such.   L A while back I found a spreadsheet on the Compaq web site, downloadable, andJ claimed to have pricing for all systems.  Turned out to be all Intel basedM systems.  No mention of VMS, Tru64, Tandum, in a document put forth as havingbN 'COMPAQ' system pricing.  In this, advertising, and everything else I've seen,N the PC side of the business represents themselves as 'COMPAQ', and ignores theN fact that Compaq is no longer just a PC company.  Gee, I wonder where the rest< of the world gets the idea that Compaq is a PC manufacturer?  P Now I'm not saying that the PC people in Compaq should be burdened with the taskO of advertising for (or even admitting to the existance of) other divisions suchtE as VMS, just as the VMS people shouldn't be burdened with the task ofaP advertising for (or even admitting to the existance of) the PC people.  Let eachK division or whatever blow their own horn.  The problem I see is that the PCeN people appear to be given a whole lot more horns to blow than the VMS people. N Based upon some revenue and profit numbers I've seen thrown around, it appearsL to me that the 'large system' people at Compaq may be supporting the effortsN (financially) of the PC people, as far as advertising is concerned.  Since anyP specifics of this aren't public knowledge, this is just a personal suspicion and not any facts I can point to.h   Dave   -- s4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 21:17:27 -0400l, From: Harry strawser <DHAWK56@email.msn.com>R Subject: Fw: [davidism] Fwd: FW: PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE READ! - We'll see if itworks5 Message-ID: <00b801c0097b$487c31a0$d350183f@computer>t   ----- Original Message -----. From: "Harry strawser" <DHAWK56@email.msn.com>L To: "buying" <buying@militaryantiques.com>; "butler3" <butler3@midwest.net>;K "brownsville9" <brownsville9@msn.com>; "brownbf" <brownbf@msn.com>; "brock" C <brock@mnsi.net>; "brett.avery" <brett.avery@n2life.com>; "bradjan":> <bradjan@mindspring.com>; "bpeck" <bpeck@mhtc.net>; "bosehill"K <bosehill@ncn.net>; "bobhone" <bobhone@msn.com>; "bob" <bob@microsoft.com>;tG "bnswood" <bnswood@mozart.inet.co.th>; "bnhinp" <bnhinp@ms8.hinet.net>;dA "bmort" <bmort@mnsinc.com>; "bkleppe" <bkleppe@msn.com>; "bjames" H <bjames@mrtc.com>; "bingo" <bingo@mwci.net>; "billm" <billm@msd.com.au>;E "betterto" <betterto@microlink.net>; "bestrate" <bestrate@n2mai.com>; E "bestgarm" <bestgarm@ms34.hinet.net>; "beejam" <beejam@micronet.net>;tA "bechtold" <bechtold@midusa.net>; "bcinvest" <bcinvest@midbc.com> % Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 9:11 PMaJ Subject: Fw: [davidism] Fwd: FW: PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE READ! - We'll see if it works     >c > ----- Original Message -----0 > From: "Harry strawser" <DHAWK56@email.msn.com>K > To: "bcesco" <bcesco@msn.com>; "barossa01" <barossa01@msn.com>; "babaloo"-G > <babaloo@mr.net>; "azrael" <azrael@nac.net>; "auto" <auto@myweb.net>;tJ > "atruebrit" <atruebrit@msn.net>; "atruebrit" <atruebrit@msn.com>; "apoe"J > <apoe@micron.net>; "anthony" <anthony@monument-consultants.fsnet.co.uk>;K > "anki" <anki@multi.fi>; "angwills" <angwills@ncn.net>; "american-vintage"eG > <american-vintage@msn.com>; "alvindunn" <alvindunn@msn.com>; "allcan"t: > <allcan@mnsi.com>; "alikhan" <alikhan@ncll.com>; "adnet"< > <adnet@mercies.com>; "admin" <admin@net2u.com>; "adammace"D > <adammace@nb.sympatico>; "ad_help" <ad_help@militaryantiques.com>; "acraig"F > <acraig@ncn.net>; "abdtrading" <abdtrading@mweb.co.za>; "abarnhurst"C > <abarnhurst@msn.com>; "ab" <ab@mmgco.com>; "6542" <6542@msm.com>; B > "5124312591" <5124312591@mobile.att.net>; "1bod" <1bod@msn.com>;
 "15701018" > <15701018@ms31.hinet.net>o' > Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 9:09 PM L > Subject: Fw: [davidism] Fwd: FW: PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE READ! - We'll see if
 > it works >m >  > >i  > > ----- Original Message -----3 > > From: "Lien Hoang" <groovie_chicke@hotmail.com>  > > To: <LHOANG@SFU.CA>l+ > > Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 3:34 AMyL > > Subject: Fwd: [davidism] Fwd: FW: PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE READ! - We'll see > if > > it works > >- > >- > > >  > > >  > > >23 > > > >From: "Aimee Seguin" <aimeejj10@hotmail.com>d7 > > > >To: shameless_83@hotmail.com, kt2001bug@aol.com,  townflirt@hotmail.com,K > > > >beauey11@aol.com, mccurdy@toolcity.net, jill_toothpaste@hotmail.com,o4 > > > >coljmt@dreamscape.com, kelly_r64@hotmail.com, > groovie_chicke@hotmail.com,aK > > > >marjolijnjochemsen@yahoo.com, stewdog17@yahoo.com, melou8@yahoo.com,tD > > > >mouse@smartt.com, miki_chan18@hotmail.com, hurni@datacomm.ch,2 > > > >rvflitton@hotmail.com, ursula.caci@glue.comK > > > >Subject: Fwd: [davidism] Fwd: FW: PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE READ! - We'llt > seee > > if > > > >it worksc* > > > >Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 16:20:43 CST > > > >r > > > >  > > > >  > > > > 8 > > > >>From: "Heather !!!" <hedgehogs_rule@hotmail.com>: > > > >>To: adam_83_1609@yahoo.com, aimeejj10@hotmail.com, aliza@anfmail.com,; > > > >>indigo_glory@hotmail.com, coconuts_101@hotmail.com, ? > > > >>ChiquitoBanana@over-the-rainbow.com, deniseng@home.com,oI > > > >>subtlelyra@hotmail.com, LoveDD32@hotmail.com, haensu@hotmail.com,y8 > > > >>henknijboer@hetnet.nl, pinkdaffodil@hotmail.com,; > > > >>sweet_ice_angel@hotmail.com, hotmocha6@hotmail.com,gA > > > >>blahblahblahsquared@blab-blab.com, nicolel23@hotmail.com,e9 > > > >>brownsugarNS@hotmail.com, bernice_reid@telus.net,  axle67@hotmail.com, @ > > > >>rastaman140@hotmail.com, brightyellowcrayon@hotmail.com,5 > > > >>f_hemmink@hotmail.com, blaster10@hotmail.com,s charrc@telusplanet.net,s; > > > >>classic_gal_69@hotmail.com, jazz_angel56@yahoo.com,  qualidit@home.com,K > > > >>fullcolorgirl@hotmail.com, AJL_010@hotmail.com, banANNA268@aol.com,oH > > > >>bohemia13@hotmail.com, himbeere@hotmail.com, Pabe44@hotmail.com,6 > > > >>benster101@hotmail.com, bfrench84@hotmail.com,= > > > >>thegrahams@netcentral.co.uk, buffykicksass@excite.comtL > > > >>Subject: Fwd: [davidism] Fwd: FW: PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE READ! - We'll > see- > > > >>if it works-+ > > > >>Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 04:22:33 GMTm > > > >>J > > > >>hi people. i'm really sorry about this, but i'm a total sucker. if > thisK > > > >>doesn't work, i'll try even harder not to send this stuff. promise.w > buto > > if3 > > > >>it does work, we could all be millionaires!a > > > >>heather:)  > > > >> > > > >>4 > > > >>>From: "Adam Jocksch" <mr_egg82@hotmail.com>9 > > > >>>To: davidism@egroups.com, tnt.pettifor@home.com,i > jjtoupin@hotmail.com, ; > > > >>>calenuik@powersurfr.com, smileysailor@hotmail.com,  > jtrjones@sprint.ca,l8 > > > >>>sjm@planet.eon.net, juicetycoon@powersurfr.com, vrl@telusplanet.net,6 > > > >>>leymar@powersurfr.com, worldofmatt@yahoo.com, > joe_tolksdorff@goval.com,e7 > > > >>>kananiah@n2.com, David.Hockett@just.gov.ab.ca,f > bngbikes@telusplanet.netL > > > >>>Subject: [davidism] Fwd: FW: PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE READ! - We'll see > if > > it > > > >>>works, > > > >>>Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:15:10 GMT	 > > > >>>o	 > > > >>>e	 > > > >>> 	 > > > >>>g) > > > >>>----Original Message Follows----a0 > > > >>>From: Soccer chick <lis37132@yahoo.com>@ > > > >>>To: Mat Tokarek <mat_tokarek@mailcity.com>,  Sammy Toms/ > > > >>><sammytoms@hotmail.com>,  Quennie Wong ! > <music_monster_47@hotmail.com>,a
 > > > >>>MikeeL > > > >>>Wright <sgt_scrum@altavista.com>, Jenna Zee <zeekid14@hotmail.com>, > > > >>>Sarah8 > > > >>>Holmstrom <clarinet1Sarah@hotmail.com>, Rahul J > <magnumr@hotmail.com>,: > > > >>>Darrah Jenkins <darrahjenkins@home.com>, Johannes > <achi35@hotmail.com>,y@ > > > >>>Bentley Johannson <xena4@hotmail.com>,  Garrett Johnson9 > > > >>><conspiracy_boy@hotmail.com>,  Heather Johnstonet$ > > > >>><hjohnstone11@hotmail.com>,< > > > >>>   Meghan Kooyman <mkooyman@k12.cbe.ab.ca>,  KristyK > > > >>><piccolo_flute_us@yahoo.com>, Laura <laura_dzikowski@hotmail.com>,o > > > >>>Gordie I > > > >>>Legarie <dncdnc@hotmail.com>, Liz <le_lizard@hotmail.com>,  Barth > > LoteckitJ > > > >>><flashmaster17@hotmail.com>,  Karuna Manek <Karunam@hotmail.com>, > Ruth > > > >>>MarkoL > > > >>><ruthmarko@hotmail.com>,  Mike Paradis <mtparadis@home.com>, PETRIE4 > > > >>><love2death@hotmail.com>,  Komal Ramchandan( > > > >>><adorable_sweetie@hotmail.com>,B > > > >>>Tina Ramchandan <cuteness_16@hotmail.com>,  Leah SaundersK > > > >>><leahsaunders@yahoo.ca>,  Jenn Taylor <flute_girl15000@yahoo.com>,t > AdamG > > > >>><mr_egg82@hotmail.com>,  Andrea <tuba_chic@hotmail.com>, Sarahf	 > BeckettaD > > > >>><sbeckett@telusplanet.net>,  Lisel Burns <liselb@edmc.net>, Adrienne > > > >>>DecorbyI > > > >>><addie11@hotmail.com>,  Jodi Denholm <jkikass@yahoo.com>, Justint > EcklesJ > > > >>><superman5000@hotmail.com>,  Erin <mc_silver_e@hotmail.com>, Kate > > GregorytJ > > > >>><widemouthmason13@hotmail.com>,  Cody Harris <anavybum1@aol.com>, > Julien9 > > > >>>Heikel <julieheikel@pwsb33.ab.ca>,  Ethan Hemings > > <hemings@cadvision.com>oG > > > >>>Subject: Fwd: FW: PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE READ! - We'll see if itw worksb3 > > > >>>Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 21:09:12 -0700 (PDT)g	 > > > >>>n8 > > > >>>Who knows if this works but it's worth the try.	 > > > >>>m
 > > > >>>Lisah( > > > >>>   PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE READ! -" > > > >>>  > We'll see if it works > > > >>>  > >  >> > > > > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >? > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >To all of our friends, I do not usuallyr& > > > >>>  > forward messages but this > > > >>>  > isr > > > >>>  > >? > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >from my good friend Pearlas Sanborn andv > > > >>>  > she really is ane? > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >attorney.....If she says that this willi! > > > >>>  > work - it WILL work.g= > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >After all, what have you got to lose?r9 > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >Jill Boyer-Holland & John Hollandt > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >@ > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >SORRY EVERYBODY.....JUST HAD TO TAKE THE > > > >>>  > CHANCE!!!  I'm an > > > >>>  > attorney, > > > >>>  > >= > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >and I know the law. This thing is fore' > > > >>>  > real. Rest assured AOL ando > > > >>>  > >  >Intel > > > >>>  > >  >> > willu> > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >follow through with their promises for > > > >>>  > fear of facing ap > > > >>>  > multimillionn > > > >>>  > > > > > >>>  > >  >> > dollar = > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >class action suit similar  to the one % > > > >>>  > filed by Pepsico against. > > > >>>  > >  >General2 > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >Electric not too long ago.= > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >We're not going to help them out withd# > > > >>>  > their e-mail beta testi > > > >>>  > without > > > >>>  > >@ > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >getting a little something for our time.$ > > > >>>  > My brother's girlfriend > > > >>>  > got > > > >>>  > > > > > >>>  > >  >inl@ > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >on this a few months ago. When I went to > > > >>>  > visit him for the > > > >>>  > Baylor!? > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >she showed me her check. It was for theC% > > > >>>  > sum of $4,324.44 and wasn; > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >stamped "Paid In Full". Like I saidC( > > > >>>  > before, I know the law, and > > > >>>  > thist > > > >>>  > > > > > >>>  > >  >isn > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >for* > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >real.eA > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >If you don't believe me you can email her  > > > >>>  > at " > > > >>>  > bjpiltman@baylor.edu.? > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >She's eager to answer any questions yout > > > >>>  > guys might have.  > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >A > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >Intel and AOL are now discussing a mergern" > > > >>>  > which would make them > > > >>>  > theA > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >largest Internet company and in an effortf > > > >>>  > make sure that AOLt > > > >>>  > remains > > > >>>  > > > > > >>>  > >  >> the > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >most> > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >widely used program, Intel and AOL are# > > > >>>  > running an e-mail betad > > > >>>  > test. > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >@ > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >When you forward this e-mail to friends,% > > > >>>  > Intel can and will track  > > > >>>  > it  > > > >>>  > >A > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >(if you are a Microsoft Windows user) foro$ > > > >>>  > a two week time period. > > > >>>  > > > > >>>  > >  >ForA > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >every person that you forward this e-mailt# > > > >>>  > to, Microsoft will paye > > > >>>  > you > > > >>>  > >? > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >$203.15. For every person that you sent # > > > >>>  > it to that forwards itu > > > >>>  > on, > > > >>>  > >  >>A > > > >>>  > >  > > >Microsoft will pay you $156.29 and for everyu > > > >>>  > third person that > > > >>>  > >  >receiveso > > > >>>  > >  >> > it, > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >yout8 > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >will be paid $17.65.  Within two- > > > >>>  > weeks,Intel will contact you forr > > > >>>  > > > > >>>  > >  >yourS< > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >address and then send you a check. I$ > > > >>>  > thought this was a scam > > > >>>  > myself, > > > >>>  > > > > > >>>  > >  >> but > > > >>>  > >  >> > aA > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >friend of my good friend's Aunt Patricia,h > > > >>>  > who works at Intel  > > > >>>  > >  actually > > > >>>  > >  >> got > > > >>>  > >  >> > a> > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >check for $4,543.23 by forwarding this > > > >>>  > e-mail.= > > > >>>  > >  >> > > >Try it, what have you got to lose???? 	 > > > >>>c; > > > >>>__________________________________________________o > > > >>>Do You Yahoo!?.1 > > > >>>Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.2" > > > >>>http://invites.yahoo.com/	 > > > >>>g > > >e > >  >cK >>>________________________________________________________________________ : > > > >>>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > http://www.hotmail.com	 > > > >>>m > > > >> > > > >a > > >f > > >oH ________________________________________________________________________7 > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at  http://www.hotmail.com > > >  > >w > >i > >U > >o > >a > >r > >  > >h > >  > >d > >o > >p > >u > >r > >s > >y > >l > >s > >  > >a >w   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Aug 2000 05:30:59 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)tV Subject: Re: Fw: [davidism] Fwd: FW: PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE READ! - We'll see if itworks' Message-ID: <8nl62j$n48$1@joe.rice.edu>s  - Harry strawser (DHAWK56@email.msn.com) wrote:y   An urban legend, documented at:i     http://snopes.com/   Urban Legends Reference Pagesa  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 17:50:04 +0000 (   )b3 From: Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com> ; Subject: Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10008181748390.26314-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com>  & On 17 Aug 2000, Larry Kilgallen wrote:  M > In article <399B5A13.A4FF1D80@vrx.net>, Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net> writes:o= > > "Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515" wrote:p > > M > >>         Just because a hobbiest/high schooler  can't afford the listingsg2 > >>     doesn't mean they should be given away... > > V > > I'm in university you dope! I guess you don't remember what that's like. No money,T > > and no way to get this stuff unless someone is very nice, even just a short-term	 > > loan.o  @ > So what is wrong with the University buying the subscription ?  J I'm sure he'd be quite happy for them to do that.  I doubt that they would hear of it, though.   D > For them to teach operating systems, I would think they would need" > diverse examples, not just Unix.  ! You would think so, wouldn't you.'   Regards,   Chrisu  O ===============================================================================a@ "My two cents"			(http://rootworks.com/twocentsworth.cgi?128562)= Christopher Smith(chriss@pubserv.com)			Prgramer^W Programmerl Prime Synergy of Champaign, IL. % -------------------------------------oI "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes andcH weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes; and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949 oO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------h   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 11:25:43 -0400l* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>; Subject: Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CDo- Message-ID: <399D5577.6F7606DF@tsoft-inc.com>s   Beyonder wrote:s >  > "Doug W." wrote: > P > > In my experience, fresh graduates will do anything to minimize their contactS > > with VMS.  If you want a future for VMS, this is a serious problem.  I am happynS > > to to see anyone who wants to learn about VMS.  Its sad that there are not manyf2 > > willing to help and some are outright hostile. > 
 > definitely.u > P > > I'll offer the same deal as BS.  Show a license and a 7.1 CD is yours.  I'llO > > need a mailing address.  If your interested I can scrounge up some outdatedaN > > manuals, some old AXP books and I'll look for an old copy of the internals	 > > book.i > 2 > I'll scan in a couple of pages of fiche for you. > and maybe some other stuff.a  K While sympathetic to the cause, I don't see a few pages of fiche as being asK license for the source listings.  You've indicated in past posts that 1)thetN license costs over $2,000, 2)you're broke.  Just how did you come by a current$ and valid 'source listings' license?  L At this time, and I'm definitely in a position to know, the people at CompaqO that can do something with the 'source listings' issue consider the data on theaL disks confidential company information, and don't consider it something thatG every student should have a copy of without adequate safeguards againstv- uncontrolled distribution of the information.a  S > > I don't care what Compaq charges for their CDs.  Its their product.  As for the:R > > information contained on them, it should be posted on the Internet.  HopefullyQ > > with some kind of index and links to example programs showing how to have fun7K > > or hack VMS.  By the way, the CD is definitely the wrong place to starts > > learning VMS.m  " As for starting places, very true.  6 > perhaps, but that's not the point to this excercise.I > I just had a thought actually... maybe someone here will pick up on it.b > U > Linux supports just about every filesystem known to man. It can read and write just>S > about every hard drive from every OS on the planet. HPFS, NT, Dos, Win95/98, evenm8 > Apple (MAC), OS/2, Solaris, SCO, BSD, and even Amiga !  O Bad example.  The ODS-2 disk structure is documented.  Not sure where or how toeK get the documentation at this moment, but I do know it exists.  For a Linux"L driver for such, I'm sure I could get the appropriate documentation.  Source: listings are the last place I'd look for such information.  L > If it has this much power, and all the code is there to look at, I've beenG > wondering why can't Linux at least READ a Vax or Alpha (VMS) volume ?:U > It should be technically possible, the ground work should all be there already, but-R > I don't really know, see, I haven't been able to look at the source listings yet > (blatant plug!)c > O > > At the moment,  gaining VMS converts should be far more important to Compaql* > > than collecting CD subscription money. > K > true. and they don't even press real CDs any more, it's now CDRs ? wow...r  M My understanding is that it isn't the money.  I've been told specifically, bylP those in charge, that it isn't the money.  The problem is the perceived securityK of trade secrets and such, and the fear of widespread availability possiblykK being an argument that the VMS source code could then be considered 'in the.L public domain', thus preventing copyright protection.  That argument doesn'tM stand up too well to information I've received that such CDs have been handeda< out, freely, without any restrictions, at past DECUS events.  L Possibly a well thought out and knowledgable proposal to Compaq might effect/ changes in the source listings product/program.    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2000 22:47:36 -05003 From: rivie@server.newlogan.teraglobal (Roger Ivie)A; Subject: Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD > Message-ID: <slrn8ps0te.1d7q.rivie@server.newlogan.teraglobal>  C In article <399D5577.6F7606DF@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble wrote:mP >Bad example.  The ODS-2 disk structure is documented.  Not sure where or how toL >get the documentation at this moment, but I do know it exists.  For a LinuxM >driver for such, I'm sure I could get the appropriate documentation.  Sourcey; >listings are the last place I'd look for such information.   O The VMS Filesystems Internals book would be a good place to start. I don't haveeP my copy on this particular bookshelf, so I can't give you the exact title. Let's& see what fatbrain.com comes up with...  L Ah, here we go: "VMS File System Internals" by Kirby McCoy. ISBN 013991783X.( Fatbrain says it's out of print, though. -- >
 Roger Ivie% TeraGlobal Communications Corporation & 1770 North Research Park Way Suite 100 Logan, UT 84341o mailto:rivie@teraglobal.com  phoneto:(435)787-0555h faxto:(435)787-0516n    > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----A http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!o> -----==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 11:05:13 -0700e! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com E Subject: Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS systems (was Re: dose vms run on intel)mC Message-ID: <OF541F8598.7CF601BD-ON8825693F.0062FB84@HEALTHNET.COM>o  K Sorry, Dave, those 72-pin parity simms are like Brooke Shields'* buttocks -tK desireable, but really hard to get hold of. ;-) I had to pay well over $200@H to get a pair of 32meg ones recently for my AlphaStation 2000, and sinceF they're not being made anymore it'll only get worse. The moral of thisJ story is, if there's an Alpha that takes off-the-shelf DIMMs, it's worth a few hundred dollars more.    Shaneu  3 * - Women, insert "Brad Pitt"'s name at this point.A          > David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> on 08/17/2000 06:31:43 PM   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com> cc:o  F Subject:  Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS systems (was Re: dose vms run on intel)     "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > 5 > Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote:fG > > :You'll also probably want to avoid VAX 4000's (note, I did not say  VAXstation, K > > :VAXstation 4000's are very nice).  Of course personally I'd love a VAXv 4000! > > :to replace my MicroVAX 3 :^)i > = > >   Um, those are Q-bus systems, and included in my earliery recommendation...  > H > Exactly :^)  What can I say, I might not be the normal Hobbyist, as my MV3 I > has both a KDA50 and a RLV12 controller in it and the drives to go with,F > those controllers.  So for me a VAX 4000 w/Q-Bus would be very nice. >tJ > For that matter I'm threatening to bring a VAXstation II/RC back on-lineI > just for the fun of it, since I finally have room to set it up with the  big>J > monitor.  My only question is, do I want to go with a RD54 HD, or switch itG > to ESDI or SCSI :^)  And yes, since I also own a PWS433au, I'm a sickh puppys3 > for messing with crusty old systems like this :^)e >a  >                           Zane  H Ok, since neither of you guys will do so, I'll stick my neck out on this one.  " The best systems for hobbyist use:  E A 32 processor wildfire, if money isn't an problem, but for the rest:   I VAXstation 4000 model 60.  A VLC is rather anemic, and will probably cost  asG much, and is limited to 24 MB of memory.  The models 90, 90A and 96 are. still a I bit pricy to just not available.  Why the VAXstation 4000?  Built in SCSIo andaD ethernet, can be a server or a workstation, and should have adequate performance J for a hobbyist.  One problem, the memory is non-standard, and I'm not even sure  what type of memory is required.  J AlphaStation 200/255 systems.  For the same reasons as the model 60 above, ande, these use regular 72 pin SIMM parity memory.  I While not as educational as a Q-bus system, the two systems mentioned canu be hadK for very low prices. They are very easy to set up.  Most SCSI disks installo andE work with no hassles.a  H The flight suit I use is 100% nomex.  Think I'll go flying and not worry about % any disagreements with the above. :-).   Dave   --4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 19:28:22 -0500.7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>sE Subject: Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS systems (was Re: dose vms run on intel) , Message-ID: <399DD4A6.EE2DF9E@earthlink.net>  " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > M > Sorry, Dave, those 72-pin parity simms are like Brooke Shields'* buttocks - M > desireable, but really hard to get hold of. ;-) I had to pay well over $200DJ > to get a pair of 32meg ones recently for my AlphaStation 2000, and sinceH > they're not being made anymore it'll only get worse. The moral of thisL > story is, if there's an Alpha that takes off-the-shelf DIMMs, it's worth a > few hundred dollars more.s   Try e-mailing this guy:   - "Avi Levy  @ Lovtec, Inc." <AviLevy@Home.com>>  E I bought a 72-pin 64 MB parity SIMM (16x36, 60ns) from him on eBay. IuG haven't actually tried it in the AlphaStation 200 4/233 yet 'cuz I need @ a pair of 'em. Could try it in my Linux box, I suppose (PB 486).  ! He has more of them for $55 (US).I  G Tell him I sent you and maybe I can get a discount on my next purchase.># (Sorry - that was shameless of me.)g   -- o David J. Dachtera> dba DJE Systemsy http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   H This *IS* comp.os.vms. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.>   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 15:44:26 -0400c* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>E Subject: Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS systems (was Re: dose vms run on intel)i- Message-ID: <399D921A.6D21E5FE@tsoft-inc.com>d  " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > M > Sorry, Dave, those 72-pin parity simms are like Brooke Shields'* buttocks ->M > desireable, but really hard to get hold of. ;-) I had to pay well over $200 J > to get a pair of 32meg ones recently for my AlphaStation 2000, and sinceH > they're not being made anymore it'll only get worse. The moral of thisL > story is, if there's an Alpha that takes off-the-shelf DIMMs, it's worth a > few hundred dollars more.n >  > Shane>   Ask before spending:  8 http://store.yahoo.com/thechipmerchant/memory-simms.html  ? 64 MB 16x36-60  $119 each  Get 2 for 128 MB memory, a nice size A 32 MB 8x36-60    $90 each  You're better off with the 64 MB SIMMs   N I didn't check for availability, but they change their site often, and I don't; think an out-of-stock item would last too long on the site.>  M I do agree on you about DIMMs.  Not sure when they switched to them.  I don't B know that the difference today will be ONLY a few hundred dollars.  O The memory that I'd like to find is for the VAXstation 4000 models 60, 90, 90A, ! and 96.  Now that's hard to find!>   Dave   -- e4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 21:20:12 -0500 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> E Subject: Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS systems (was Re: dose vms run on intel)>- Message-ID: <399DEEDC.D600D83B@earthlink.net>   " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > M > Sorry, Dave, those 72-pin parity simms are like Brooke Shields'* buttocks - M > desireable, but really hard to get hold of. ;-) I had to pay well over $200 J > to get a pair of 32meg ones recently for my AlphaStation 2000, and sinceH > they're not being made anymore it'll only get worse. The moral of thisL > story is, if there's an Alpha that takes off-the-shelf DIMMs, it's worth a > few hundred dollars more.o   Try this, too...  @ http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=408192711   -- a David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systems> http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/>  H This *IS* comp.os.vms. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 23:56:47 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)E Subject: Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS systems (was Re: dose vms run on intel)lL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1808002356470001@user-2ive6fd.dialup.mindspring.com>  Y In article <399D921A.6D21E5FE@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:h    Q > The memory that I'd like to find is for the VAXstation 4000 models 60, 90, 90A,_# > and 96.  Now that's hard to find!!  E Have you tried Clearpoint (www.clearpoint.com)?  I haven't bought anynE VAXstation 4000 memory recently, but they are usually good at finding_D old stuff.  They make most of their own SIMMs, so they could cook upG a batch if the components are still available.  Don't know about price. I For mainstream stuff we have found them to be competitive.  Is VAXstation_9 4000 memory really out of the mainstream already?  Golly!P   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comh   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 12:13:38 -0500 + From: "Davidson,Sam" <SDAVIDSON@cerner.com> 1 Subject: HOW DO YOU UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST !!-K Message-ID: <46D95C8A6C42D311A7CC00805FEA3AEA08D32520@mailwhq01.cerner.com>e  ( HOW DO YOU UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST !!  ' Great discussion, but too much traffic.r   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Aug 2000 19:20:05 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)5 Subject: Re: HOW DO YOU UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST !!e6 Message-ID: <8nk295$g4d$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  y In article <46D95C8A6C42D311A7CC00805FEA3AEA08D32520@mailwhq01.cerner.com>, "Davidson,Sam" <SDAVIDSON@cerner.com> writes:s) :HOW DO YOU UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS LIST !!e  G   Please see the OpenVMS FAQ for information on Info-VAX subscriptions,8D   or please see the email message you should have received when you G   originally subscribed to Info-VAX.  If the automated mechanisms fail dI   or if you deleted the original message or if your return email address "I   has changed, you can use the information in the OpenVMS FAQ to contact f   the list maintainer directly.n  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 01:29:06 GMT ! From: Ian Parker <parker@gol.com>y" Subject: Re: Mass adding of users?& Message-ID: <euQeyDAEGen5EwF7@gol.com>  @ In article <8njdv4$p7j$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Uwe Zessin <zessin@my- deja.com> writes1 >In article <8ngegv$c2g$1@aquila.news.mdx.ac.uk>,m" >  david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk wrote:D >> In article <399B0C9B.93F8F292@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera"& ><djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes: >> >JF Mezei wrote:M >> >B >> >I suppose Dan Sugalski may have tuned out due to the static of >> >recent.s >> >F >> >Still, I was just wondering whether VMS Perl has any UAF interface- >> >modules akin to All-in-1's UAF "dataset".l >># >> There is a VMS::USER perl Module0 >> >> Alpha2:perldoc vms::usero > 9 >If you need read + write access to the UAF you might tryn >    Python for OpenVMS.A >It cannot create or delete records (you still need AUTHORIZE for-@ >that), but $GETUAI and $SETUAI (and a function to get a list of >all usernames) are here:, > B >http://www.decus.de/~zessin/python/doc/refman/vms_sys_getuai.htmlB >http://www.decus.de/~zessin/python/doc/refman/vms_sys_setuai.html >- >There are 2 UAF demoes at:i: >http://www.decus.de/~zessin/python/doc/demo/toc_demo.html >nG >There are many other routines to deal with identifiers + proxies, too:t; >http://www.decus.de/~zessin/python/doc/refman/vms_sys.htmlo >p5 >Version 1.5.2-V007 has been released on 14-AUG-2000. & >It contains some important bug fixes. >t. >Start at: http://www.decus.de/~zessin/python/5 >The [changes] link describes new features and fixes.s > E >Take some time if you want to play with this - it's a LARGE package!i >g >--e >Uwe Zessini >r >e' >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/a >Before you buy.   Uwe   D Good to see a new version of Python for OpenVMS (especially with theF objects).  I'll try it this weekend.  We now use Python for OpenVMS onF all of our VMS Alphas and VAXen (and are rolling out Python on all the Tru64 and UNIX boxes).   Regardsl -- g
 Ian Parker   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 14:29:19 -0400k% From: James Griffin <griffin@vol.com>  Subject: NAMRES in CMUIPO Message-ID: <C029E93815D5AFBF.6CE142667BC2DC84.5E11DE91ECBF53EF@lp.airnews.net>a   Good afternoon.d  F I have a VAX 4000/200 running VMS V5.4-2.  The system came without theC TCP/IP stack (i.e., no UCX), so I recently downloaded and installed A CMUIP.  It works fine, but I'm having trouble configuring NAMRES.d  D There is a config file in SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]NAMRES.CONFIG, but the syntax seems strange.g  D If some out there would be kind enough to post their config file, orE mail me a copy, it would go a long way to clearing the fog between myh ears.i   TIAn   Jim Griffino griffin@vol.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 15:04:22 -0400y- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: NAMRES in CMUIP+ Message-ID: <399D88AB.C8362F6@videotron.ca>    James Griffin wrote:F > There is a config file in SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]NAMRES.CONFIG, but the > syntax seems strange.   ) What I have setup (it connects to an ISP)e  2 Domain_server:.:2.VIDEOTRON.NET:205.151.222.250:532 Domain_server:.:3.VIDEOTRON.NET:205.151.222.251:53  	 Logging:1, Variable:DEBUG:0   The rest is commented out.  L I made up the host names (2.videotron.net), and put in the IP numbers of the! videotron DNS hosts, and port 53.t   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Aug 2000 00:47:59 GMT' From: dashw459@aol.comeatspam (Doug W.). Subject: Re: New KZP?t: Message-ID: <20000818204759.04185.00000834@ng-fi1.aol.com>   Martin Platts wrote:  L <<Some progress *NEEDS* to be made in these areas - the pro*liant ranges areK getting all the glory and Alphas (sic) are getting ignored - even the Tru64g varieties.>>  O The decision to limit device support to selective OSs is probably made close tolH the root of the management tree.  As a hole big enought to drive a truckL through has opened up in VMS RAID, but not PC or UNIX RAID, its a good guessM Compaq management is sending you a message.   Some will say Compaq is pushingyK its customers to implement the latest corporate strategy.  Others will say .M Compaq has genuinely listened to its customers and is attempting to give themTM the products they want.  I'll leave that question to better minds.  I can sayfO VMS customers are being led to products with ridiculously high margins.  IronicuN considering the 'I' in RAID is for Inexpensive.  The message is dangerous.  ItK will cause some customers to question if they really  belong on VMS.  Wouldt5 Compaq be happier if they migrated to PCs or TRU64?  y  O <<The Mylex is still a product but is now relegated to the "retired products">>eM Under VMS the Mylex is dead.  If you buy a new KZP from Compaq today even them' firmware revision level is out of date.   K <<Chips and Operating Systems may be great, but if you can't connect to any-I modern storage except using some network attached storage from some othert box then its not much use.>>M I don't think you want to accept the message.  Sounds like you are one of the:K zealots from VAX 780 days.  One of those optimists convinced that computersHO will always become better, smaller, cheaper and faster.  You may be in trouble.e  > <<Sadly, I see little or no sign of progress in these areas.>> The pipeline is empty.  H Assuming you will stay with VMS without backplane RAID there may be someN options.  Hard to say without knowing anything about your I/O.  But at least IH didn't say the only answer is HSZ.  Perhaps software RAID over some fastF controllers and disks can help?  You might want to look at IntraServerH ITI-6100U2 Ultra2 controllers.  I forget their homepage, just search forN Intraserver.  This controller uses the same chipset as the internal controllerO in the ES40.  Its cheap.  To date we have used it in the ES40 and GS140 without K problems.  For a shelf try the Compaq 4254 (Ultra 2 split bus) using Compaqt Ultra2 10K disks.o  K For the more adventurous there are 3rd party RAID solutions.  Especially ifaO your I/O requirements fall into some hard to fill niche.  There are some really4K inventive devices available, light years beyond the KZP.  Its a competitivenK field with some good small companies.  They listen, don't push clusters and M will bend over backwards to help.  "VMS does that.  Let me make some calls to O our disk suppliers.  I'm sure we can tune for it.  I'll get right back to you."    Good Luck.         ------------------------------   Date: 18 Aug 2000 21:37:45 GMT From: (Warren Sander)D Subject: Re: OpenVMS Web Forum* Message-ID: <8nkab9$5b7@usenet.pa.dec.com>   re: ATW   > 	The Ask the Wizard is a purely voluntary effort on the behaveK of those OpenVMS Wizards. Just to give some info.. We get 5+ wizard queries L per day. Those go into a notes file that the wizard then reads and answers. K whenever he feels he's done a nice batch up he kicks me in the behind and I L post them. Now most of this on my side is automagic but the wizard does haveJ to come up with the answer and most import change the title of the note inI the notes file so my procedures can pick it up and use it as the title ofn the question.   G 	currently there are 3945 questions asked and answered since July 1998.o! Plus the 800 in the old archive. :  F 	We try to do an update every month but one thing that engineer's needN to do is engineer. They take some 'light refreshment' on doing ATW answers butI a lot of these questions are not that easily answered and if there is hot0L and heavy stuff happening in realtime on comp.os.vms then the action is over here.c  = We never intended for ATW to be an immediate support channel.   D Also fyi - ATW got over 200,000 views by 25,000 visitors last month.  K I'm currently working an intern to death reading EVERY one of the questionslO and answers and adding Keywords to them. We will be putting up keyword listings K of ATW questions/answers in the month (like SCSI, DECnet, TCPIP/UCX etc) sotN you can get a listing of all the questions on a subject (rather than searching
 the titles).    J I'm also going to split off the questions from before 2000 into a seperateO file to try to make loading the main page faster. The searches etc will executemK on the entire list of questions. I'm also going to leave a 'full' index outfB there for those of you who enjoy loading pages that are over 500KB  2 Any other suggestions feel free to send me mail.   --  B ------------------------------------------------------------------6 Warren Sander                        OpenVMS MarketingD Compaq Computer Corporation          Work:  warren.sander@compaq.comB 200 Forest Street MR01-3/J1          Personal: sander@ultranet.com3 Marlboro, MA 01752                   (508) 467-4875e6    My opinions are my own and I only speak for myself /           Read http://www.openvms.digital.com/ oB ------------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 18:53:57 -0400v2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: OpenVMS Web Forum7 Message-ID: <200008181854_MC2-B033-629F@compuserve.com>   # Message text written by Mark Daniel A >FWIW, dispersing the already thin VMS resources further might be F counter-productive, comp.os.vms and relateds have done a good job over the years. <  H         In years gone by, comp.os.vms/Info-VAX was a major resource.  ItG was a mostly technical newsgroup with people who wrote code for VMS and-C published it.  There were people with questions and people with thec answers.  I learned a lot.  J         Somewhere along the way, most of the technical people got lost an= d B the Digital/Compaq CEO-wannabes took over.  There were endless andJ pointless threads: "is vms dead", "vms is dead", "the future of VMS", etc= ,iJ ad nauseum; Compaq management is not listening!  There were the Carl Lydi= ckJ vs. Info-VAX  flame wars.  Carl achieved the dubious distinction of being=  J the only person ever banned from Info-VAX; nothing could be done about th= eyE news-group.  The useful content has dropped to the point where I haveaJ started deleting all messages with certain subject lines,  unread!  I hav= ee% seriously considered unsubscribing. =a    J         If people devoted the time and energy to writing applications, th= atJ is now spent discussing what Compaq/Digital should have done and should d= o,! there might be some hope for VMS.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 23:33:55 -0400t2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) Subject: Re: OpenVMS Web ForumL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1808002333550001@user-2ive6fd.dialup.mindspring.com>  J In article <8nkab9$5b7@usenet.pa.dec.com>, warren.sander@compaq.com wrote:    4 > Any other suggestions feel free to send me mail.    
 Hello Warren,.  O   One small improvement would be to give us a chance to pick the non-javascriptyO version of Ask the Wizard BEFORE the whole javascript version is loaded.  Sincee\ the javascript version is useless to me, the extra delay is painful, particularly via modem.  E    Other than that, ATW is very good.  Hats off to everyone involved!o   -- > Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comr   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 02:50:37 GMT># From: xaphan@mebtel.net (Dan Evans)m5 Subject: Platform migration - password extractions?!?1. Message-ID: <399df4cb.2891277@news.mebtel.net>  F I work for a company who has purchased a completely oursourced ISP andF they run entirely on VMS.  There are 11,000+ users that I must migrateC to a new platform running iPlanet on Solaris.  Is there any hope ofeE extracting the users' passwords from the sysuaf.dat file?  I'm tryingoE to make the migration as seamless as possible and I don't really wantlB to have 11,000 helpdesk calls on the day of the ultimate cut over.  D Also, the mail platform they're using is PMDF.  I must migrate theirB mail as transparently as possible - I have found perl scripts that? will convert the VMS mail files to a "/var/mail" type after theYD "extract/all filename.txt" from the mail utility, but the extractionC does not look the same running in PMDF as it does with standard VMStF mail... and the script is to convert the VMS mail.  Any suggestions or( assistance would be GREATLY appreciated!   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 22:33:09 -0500r7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>i9 Subject: Re: Platform migration - password extractions?!?i- Message-ID: <399DFFF5.EEA5B1A8@earthlink.net>    Dan Evans wrote: > H > I work for a company who has purchased a completely oursourced ISP andH > they run entirely on VMS.  There are 11,000+ users that I must migrateE > to a new platform running iPlanet on Solaris.  Is there any hope of G > extracting the users' passwords from the sysuaf.dat file?  I'm tryingmG > to make the migration as seamless as possible and I don't really want D > to have 11,000 helpdesk calls on the day of the ultimate cut over.  C Then there's only one answer - keep 'em on VMS, and move your others customers there as well.  A Contact Mark Levy at FSInet to find out why (http://www.fsi.net/)     -- y David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems3 http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l  H This *IS* comp.os.vms. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 23:46:34 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)9 Subject: Re: Platform migration - password extractions?!?sL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1808002346340001@user-2ive6fd.dialup.mindspring.com>  G In article <399df4cb.2891277@news.mebtel.net>, xaphan@mebtel.net wrote:,  H > I work for a company who has purchased a completely oursourced ISP andH > they run entirely on VMS.  There are 11,000+ users that I must migrate1 > to a new platform running iPlanet on Solaris.  R  G I guess this company is going to lose a lot of customers - probably thei< majority of the 11,000.  Which will be a well-deserved loss.  K Have these jamokes never heard the rule, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"?t   > Is there any hope of= > extracting the users' passwords from the sysuaf.dat file?  '  G I don't think so.  VMS stores passwords in encrypted form, and there isnG no decription algorithm available.  I suppose the NSA would have littledG trouble but you probably can't afford them.  Particularly since the newd8 owners of this ISP are about to feel a cash-flow crunch.   >I'm tryingtG > to make the migration as seamless as possible and I don't really wantVD > to have 11,000 helpdesk calls on the day of the ultimate cut over.  5 Best idea is to disable the phone system on that day.   F > Also, the mail platform they're using is PMDF.  I must migrate theirD > mail as transparently as possible - I have found perl scripts thatA > will convert the VMS mail files to a "/var/mail" type after theEF > "extract/all filename.txt" from the mail utility, but the extractionE > does not look the same running in PMDF as it does with standard VMS-H > mail... and the script is to convert the VMS mail.  Any suggestions or* > assistance would be GREATLY appreciated!  D Forgive the somewhat sarcastic tone of my reply, but this appears toI be a terribly bone-headed scheme.  Does the fellow who made this decision5H have pointy hair?  VMS seems to be a perfect platform to support an ISP:J stable, low maintenance, high availablilty.  Just what the customers want.I Did the previous operators of this ISP screw the pooch so completely thatg* the current platform must be thrown out?    G I really, really wish you'd tell us the name of the company doing this. F Better yet, I wish you'd send me the customer list.  I'd send them allM referals to a decent company, and I'd get free net access for the rest of my i life from the referal bonuses.   -- - Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com-   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 20:23:52 GMTo@ From: Jeff - Coachella Valley Water <cyberunlimited.org@gte.net>3 Subject: Problem using XV with VAX 4000 Model 90's.a' Message-ID: <399D9ABE.85435993@gte.net>o  E Does anyone know of a reason that my VAX 4000 Model 90's will totallyj> wig out and have to be rebooted when I'm using the XV Program?E The command line that I cam using is: "xv -loadclear -owncmap -8 -dir.D [.images] -flist filenames.txt". I am displaying .JPG's and I notice thatH they look better when I use 8 bit processing and force XV to use his own? color map.  Do I need to upgrade my Video Board or can I get by C with adding more memory? Has any one else come across this problem?e  	 Thanks...F   Jeff - CVWD> cvwdmail@netscape.net1   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 21:12:56 GMTa/ From: "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu>t7 Subject: Re: Problem using XV with VAX 4000 Model 90's.M) Message-ID: <399D6088.7BE83E20@uiowa.edu>u  $ Jeff - Coachella Valley Water wrote: > G > Does anyone know of a reason that my VAX 4000 Model 90's will totallye@ > wig out and have to be rebooted when I'm using the XV Program?G > The command line that I cam using is: "xv -loadclear -owncmap -8 -dirtF > [.images] -flist filenames.txt". I am displaying .JPG's and I notice > thatJ > they look better when I use 8 bit processing and force XV to use his ownA > color map.  Do I need to upgrade my Video Board or can I get byvE > with adding more memory? Has any one else come across this problem?   C One note:  I have never fully tested all switches of XV.  I guess IuC should have or at least more clearly stated that fact in my releasef> notes. :)  I should do that before I make any other updates...  C I can see that the code to change directories (-dir <...>) does noth@ work correctly for relative paths.  Personnally, I did not even B realize it was there and have never used it on OpenVMS or Unix.  I" would guess there are others too.    That is, this does not work:   	xv -dir [.images] ...  > whereas, this example does seem to work correctly for me here:   	xv -dir [dyson.images] ...-  = However, this does not explain any "crashing" or CPU halting.k  A How about trying this sort of command instead of the one you usede above:   	set default [.images] 	xv -perfect -wait -wloop *.jpgr  8 Does this work OK to put up a slide show of your images?  E Is this the binary EXE file I created for you?  If so, I generated it," on a VAXstation 4000-60 (PMariah).  D VAX hardware detail question for the GURUs:  Would an EXE built on aF PMariah-based VAX chip have any problems running on a Cougar-based VAX chip?x  G I built it on an OpenVMS v6.2 system with Motif v1.2-3(980123) with DECn C v5.7-004.    Regards, rick -- dH Richard L. Dyson                                    rick-dyson@uiowa.eduH  _   _      _____                http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/H | | | |    |_   _|   Systems Analyst                     O: 319/335-1879H | | | | of   | |     The University of Iowa            FAX: 319/335-17536 | \_/ |     _| |_    Department of Physics & Astronomy-  \___/     |_____|   Iowa City, IA 52242-1479t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 23:20:34 -0400s2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)7 Subject: Re: Problem using XV with VAX 4000 Model 90's. L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1808002320340001@user-2ive6fd.dialup.mindspring.com>  D In article <399D9ABE.85435993@gte.net>, cvwdmail@netscape.net wrote:  G > Does anyone know of a reason that my VAX 4000 Model 90's will totally9@ > wig out and have to be rebooted when I'm using the XV Program?  D I can't guess exactly what you mean by "totally wig out".  The exactF text of the error message(s) would be helpful.  If the system crashes,A the console should display some information about the cause.  If eK DECwindows dies, the machine might seem dead, but you could still access itiJ via set host, telnet, etc.  There might not be an obvious error message in
 this case.  E It sounds like this might be a Decwindows crash.  We used to see thisID a lot with netscape and other hoggish programs.  Our solution was to? increase some process quotas for the DECwindows server process.m   Do you have a file named* SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.COM?  - Does it contain something along the lines of     $ decw$server_wsdef == 1024r $ decw$server_wsquota == 2600h" $ decw$server_keyclick_volume == 0$ $ define decw$server_page_file 65536    for the workstation in question?  $ If you don't have this file, look atH SYS$MANAGER:DECW$PRIVATE_SERVER_SETUP.TEMPLATE and the comments therein.  C Unlike most of VMS, DECwindows clearly has bugs that let ordinary, p/ unprivileged programs cause a DECwindows crash.    -- s Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com"   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 23:26:17 -0400o2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)7 Subject: Re: Problem using XV with VAX 4000 Model 90's.eL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1808002326180001@user-2ive6fd.dialup.mindspring.com>  Z In article <399D6088.7BE83E20@uiowa.edu>, "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> wrote:    F > VAX hardware detail question for the GURUs:  Would an EXE built on aH > PMariah-based VAX chip have any problems running on a Cougar-based VAX > chip?a  K There's certainly no hardware reason.  There may be problems with differentnC versions of run-time libraries, but that's purely a software issue.iI (Not claiming to be a hardware guru, but I've never heard a whisper about.1 hardware dependence of Vax compilers and linker.)/  I > I built it on an OpenVMS v6.2 system with Motif v1.2-3(980123) with DEC 
 > C v5.7-004.   L Both the VMS and the Motif are a bit old.  The Motif is likely a bit buggierJ than newer versions.  I assume your executable is calling on the shareableH images, so he's probably using his, not yours, when he runs the program.H Anyway, a shareable image version problem should report an error as soon as the image is activated.  O As I replied to the previous post, this may be a DECwindows configuration/quota 6 problem, but the problem report was not very detailed.   -- y Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comr   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 16:17:31 -0400t* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>* Subject: Re: Sony MO on VAXstation 4000/60- Message-ID: <399D99DB.4C1FF268@tsoft-inc.com>r   Jim Agnew wrote: > r > one can configure the scsi id of the controller, so you can have 7 devices instead of 6.  adds one more disk!!!! > : > j.  i forgot exactly what the command was, but it may be >  > SET SCSIA 7 and: >  > SET SCSIB 7  for the b bus...c  J About right, I'm too lazy to actually go to a system and check the syntax.  O However, if the system SCSI ID is other than 7, then DKA700 is a valid ID for aVC disk.  There seems to be the implication above that cannot be done.a   Dave   -- o4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 05:31:25 GMTe6 From: "MariuszM" <Mariusz.Macherzynski@zks.skoczow.pl> Subject: split large files1 Message-ID: <NYon5.5815$194.147064@news.tpnet.pl>s  J I have 3 GB file. I need zip it but OpenVMS zip can compress only files be	 low 2 GB.tL I wrote simply procedure in DCL, which reads record by record from this fileJ and writes these records to two output files but this is extremely long in time.yF Could anyone give me an advice about other ways to solve this problem.- My email: Mariusz.Macherzynski@zks.skoczow.pl    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 12:32:10 -0400-# From: John Vottero <John@MVPSI.com> 7 Subject: RE: Taking a MicroVax 3100-90 out of a clusteroD Message-ID: <C15945A9D9EFCF11BA8B08002BBF1CCC0CD7B9@berry.mvpsi.com>  J You should check your votes before you do this.  The MV3100 may be servingK as the tie breaking vote in the cluster.  If you remove it, everything will K work just fine until one of the 6610's fails.  Then the other one will hang'0 until quorum is reestablished.  Just a thought.    > -----Original Message-----> > From: smiley0205@my-deja.com [mailto:smiley0205@my-deja.com]) > Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 6:09 PMI > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coml5 > Subject: Taking a MicroVax 3100-90 out of a clusterp >  > 
 > VMS'ers, > E >   I have a question.  We have a Mixed interconnect cluster with two-E > 6610's and one MicroVax 3100-90.  All three are running 5.5-2.  The G > 3100 boots over the ethernet.  I want to take this machine out of the = > cluster permanently so what is the easiest way to copy the J > VMS stuff to: > a local disk?  I do have a disk that I can use and even  > initialize.  It H > currently boots from SYS30.  Would I use vmskitbld and use sys0 as the> > source root and target root?  Any help would be appreciated! >  > Spike- >  > ( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.1 >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 14:49:04 -0400 0 From: Jim Jennis <jjennis@discovery.fuentez.com>7 Subject: RE: Taking a MicroVax 3100-90 out of a clusteriD Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000818144904.00976ec0@discovery.fuentez.com>  ' At 12:32 PM 8/18/2000 -0400, you wrote:pK >You should check your votes before you do this.  The MV3100 may be servingaL >as the tie breaking vote in the cluster.  If you remove it, everything willL >work just fine until one of the 6610's fails.  Then the other one will hang1 >until quorum is reestablished.  Just a thought. w  I Good point..another option is to configure one of your disks as a "quorumcI disk" that will allieviate this problem (unless the disk goes off line orr	 belly-up)e   Regards,   Jim    >> -----Original Message-----d? >> From: smiley0205@my-deja.com [mailto:smiley0205@my-deja.com]s* >> Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 6:09 PM >> To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com6 >> Subject: Taking a MicroVax 3100-90 out of a cluster >> p >>   >> VMS'ers,r >> fF >>   I have a question.  We have a Mixed interconnect cluster with twoF >> 6610's and one MicroVax 3100-90.  All three are running 5.5-2.  TheH >> 3100 boots over the ethernet.  I want to take this machine out of the> >> cluster permanently so what is the easiest way to copy the  >> VMS stuff top; >> a local disk?  I do have a disk that I can use and even a >> initialize.  ItI >> currently boots from SYS30.  Would I use vmskitbld and use sys0 as the-? >> source root and target root?  Any help would be appreciated!i >> m >> Spike >> R >>  ) >> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/  >> Before you buy. >> 8 >0 >38 --------------------------------------------------------7 FSC - Building Better Information Technology Solutions-r7       from the Production Floor to the Customer's Door.i8 --------------------------------------------------------5 Jim Jennis, Technical Director for Commercial Systemso Fuentez Systems Concepts, Inc. 1 Discovery Place, Suite 2 Martinsburg, WV. 25401 USAt  # Phone: +001 (304) 263-0163 ext. 235l Fax:   +001 (304) 263-0702% Email: jjennis@discovery.fuentez.com s        jhjennis@shentel.nety& WEB: http://www.discovery.fuentez.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 22:25:05 GMTa From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>3 Subject: Re: Toshiba CD-ROM and VMS Hobbiest CD-ROM ' Message-ID: <399DB7C1.8FC1BE4A@home.nl>s   Charles Barilleaux wrote:s >  > Hi!> > O > I am trying to get a VMS system up with an Alpha system I rescued. I'm tryingeK > to get a CD-ROM for it, and, so far, have come up with mostly things thatrO > don't work. I did, however, find a Toshiba XM-4101B. My understanding is thatoK > this CD-ROM shipped with some AlphaServer models. Does anyone know if the 6 > OpenVMS hobbiest CD-ROM will work with such a drive?  C Yes it does in my Alpha. Toshiba drives are used by Compaq in Alphaf systems.   > 	 > thanks,  > Charles Barilleaux   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 21:43:02 +0200n From: Cor Mom <cor@momss.nl>$ Subject: Re: What quota was exceeded( Message-ID: <399D91C6.C24C6370@momss.nl>  * You may try VIP - VMS Information Provider  * It is available at http://www.momss.nl/vip  H Besides monitoring the process quota it does a lot of other nice things.   Cheers,    Cor Momr http://www.momss.nl-   DAVID_WHITE@phl.com wrote: > K > We are trying to solve a similar problem where a user's process quota areiL > being exceeded.  Once the process fails the quota's are reset.  Is there aG > way to capture the quota's when the process fails and before they aref > reset? >  > $ >                     aus@vim.uni-wuI >                     erzburg.de            To:     Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comg/ >                     (Hans M. Aus)         cc:rT >                                           Subject:     Re: What quota was exceeded$ >                     08/18/00 05:34 >                     AM >  >  > J > In article <399C3BFB.86412858@srv.net>, Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> wrote: >  > ...h > >eB > > How do I figure out which quota is getting exceeded so I don't- > > have to keep randomally adjusting quotas?e >  > $ !u > $ ! WATCH_1_USER.COMJ > $ ! watches specified process for the quota remaining and highlights low > linesi; > $ ! Simon Maufe Digital Colorado Springs January 2nd 1993w > $ !y > J > WATCH_1_USER.COM is a lifesaver for discovering which quota is exceeded.K > The program might be available on DECUS or Freeware sources; if not, I'lloC > send it to you. Simon left Digital several years ago but gave hisr. > permission to distribute the program freely. >  > --D > Cheers, Hans M. Aus, Wuerzburg, Germany,  aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 12:26:25 -0400e* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>1 Subject: Re: Why couldn't linux read a vms drive? - Message-ID: <399D63B1.CD54073D@tsoft-inc.com>x   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > ] > In article <sppfprkp87v163@corp.supernews.com>, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> writes:V > O > > Let see, now known for LINUX, you can get at least one DCL emulator, DECNet I > > Phase IV, ODS-2, and someone reported recently that LAT is available.- > I > Wow, this Linux thing has started emulating a _real_ operating system !   P Well, when you want to excell at something, there are worse options than finding/ some good examples, role models, etc to follow.o   Dave   -- s4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 19:14:32 -0500I7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>l1 Subject: Re: Why couldn't linux read a vms drive?s- Message-ID: <399DD168.92FF3815@earthlink.net>    "John E. Malmberg" wrote:h [snip] mM > Let see, now known for LINUX, you can get at least one DCL emulator, DECNetaG > Phase IV, ODS-2, and someone reported recently that LAT is available.   G I thought LAT was a licensed protocol with no public specification. has 7 someone finally been successful at reverse-engineering?   G ODS support outside of VMS, AFAIK, is still read-only. Has this changedr yet?  D AFAIK, RMS support outside of VMS is still a commercial product. Has
 THIS changed?e   -- b David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/h  H This *IS* comp.os.vms. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.h   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 00:20:03 GMTe' From: kenn@avalon.research.wombat.ie () 1 Subject: Re: Why couldn't linux read a vms drive?t; Message-ID: <slrn8pra4u.t5c.kenn@avalon.research.wombat.ie>e  / On 18 Aug 2000 10:43:42 -0500, Larry Kilgallen h+  <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote: 1 >In article <sppfprkp87v163@corp.supernews.com>, -- > "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> writes:o >rN >> Let see, now known for LINUX, you can get at least one DCL emulator, DECNetH >> Phase IV, ODS-2, and someone reported recently that LAT is available. >oH >Wow, this Linux thing has started emulating a _real_ operating system !  = And the high-availability efforts on Linux seem to be heading " towards VMS-style clustering, too!  > There is work on filesystems for shared SCSI and Fibre Channel< disks (www.globalfilesystem.org) and some others are working on a Distributed Lock Manager.  7 The more things change, the more they stay the same :-)m  " Oh - there's a MOP server as well.   Later, Kenn) http://sourceforge.net/projects/linux-vaxm   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 20:48:14 -0400-2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>1 Subject: Re: Why couldn't linux read a vms drive?t7 Message-ID: <200008182048_MC2-B02D-6CCC@compuserve.com>M  J         LAT is patent protected!  A third party or two have already rever= seJ engineered the protocol, only to run afoul of DEC's intellectual property=   lawyers!    + Message text written by "David J. Dachtera"  >"John E. Malmberg" wrote: [snip] =  F > Let see, now known for LINUX, you can get at least one DCL emulator, DECNetG > Phase IV, ODS-2, and someone reported recently that LAT is available.   G I thought LAT was a licensed protocol with no public specification. hasg8 someone finally been successful at reverse-engineering?<   ------------------------------    Date: 18 Aug 2000 19:55:09 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)1 Subject: Re: X terminals that speak DECnet or LATe* Message-ID: <399d787d$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  k In article <8njrn8$env$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:e >oX >In article <399d69f5$1@news.kapsch.co.at>, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:J >:And finally they really made an add-on XDMCP for OpenVMS well before PSC2 >:did it for TCPware or DEC refused to make one !! >a= >  XDMCP is in TCP/IP Services V5.1, currently in field test.o  K I already know (for almost a year now), and am very glad. But V5.1 is stilly= way to go (I already wait many months for a ECO for V5.0[A]).o= Finally after 10 years, COMPAQ changed this bad DEC decision.a   -- x< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888 < FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netF <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 14:29:00 -0400 0 From: Jim Jennis <jjennis@discovery.fuentez.com>1 Subject: Re: X terminals that speak DECnet or LATpD Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000818142900.009fb330@discovery.fuentez.com>  > >>  XDMCP is in TCP/IP Services V5.1, currently in field test. >IL >I already know (for almost a year now), and am very glad. But V5.1 is still> >way to go (I already wait many months for a ECO for V5.0[A]).> >Finally after 10 years, COMPAQ changed this bad DEC decision.  K WOW!!! Who woulda thunk it?? Finally!!! After all these years Compaq bringsmJ real X-connection capability to VMS! I have been using NCD's XDM server onA VAX and Alpha (unsupported and use at your own risk) for 5 years.5  < When is the 5.1 ECO going to be released (yesterday I hope)?   Regards,   Jim 8 --------------------------------------------------------7 FSC - Building Better Information Technology Solutions-s7       from the Production Floor to the Customer's Door. 8 --------------------------------------------------------5 Jim Jennis, Technical Director for Commercial Systemso Fuentez Systems Concepts, Inc. 1 Discovery Place, Suite 2 Martinsburg, WV. 25401 USAl  # Phone: +001 (304) 263-0163 ext. 235. Fax:   +001 (304) 263-0702% Email: jjennis@discovery.fuentez.com s        jhjennis@shentel.netc& WEB: http://www.discovery.fuentez.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Aug 2000 18:44:14 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)1 Subject: Re: X terminals that speak DECnet or LATE6 Message-ID: <8nk05u$fb3$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  w In article <3.0.5.32.20000818142900.009fb330@discovery.fuentez.com>, Jim Jennis <jjennis@discovery.fuentez.com> writes:=? :>>  XDMCP is in TCP/IP Services V5.1, currently in field test.n ..= :When is the 5.1 ECO going to be released (yesterday I hope)?W  K   TCP/IP Services V5.1 is currently expected to ship with the OpenVMS V7.3  M   release, which would indicate the expected date is circa Q4CY2000/Q1CY2001. K   Various field test and SDK kits for OpenVMS V7.3 are available now, with -N   another update (EFT2/SDK2) expected circa September -- I'd currently expect K   to see a field test of TCP/IP Services V5.1 in the September SDK kit, if h@   it is not already on the existing and available EFT1/SDK1 kit.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 13:51:31 -0400 R From: jamese@beast.dtsw.army.mil (Ed James, 410-295-1919, ed.james@telecomsys.com)1 Subject: Re: X terminals that speak DECnet or LATe0 Message-ID: <00081813513148@beast.dtsw.army.mil>  2 "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> wrote in? <399D11B9.75B6E252@uiowa.edu> on Fri, 18 Aug 2000 15:36:41 GMT:x   > Randy Winfrey wrote: > > 4 > > Does anyone still manufacture an X terminal that= > > communicates via DECnet or LAT. Jupiter used to sell one,a > > but they don't anymore.i > J > I researched this some long ago and we settled on Tektronix X Terminals.G > (XP4xx line).  They did DECWindows over DECnet as well as having LAT,nG > telnet, and CTERM VT340 emulators.  They can also run DECWindows overnF > TCP/IP and used XDMCP for your Unix (& Multinet?) friends.  They hadE > OpenVMS VAX and Alpha server software and up to 21" dual-head boxese? > that can connect to most X-type and some WinDoze servers too.  > K > However, Tek sold everything to NCD (which used to make X terms, but did  ' > not support OpenVMS in the past), ...e  C At the last place I worked, we used NCD 19C and HMX terminals, somesF with LK201 style keyboards, and talked to OpenVMS just fine. You couldE do telnet directly to OpenVMS or use XDCMP and get a DECWindows loginsI screen, just like at the console. There was NCD OpenVMS specific software   that was on tape and also on CD.  ( > Here is one place to start looking at: > , > 	http://www.ncd.com/products/hardware/ncs/  9 Used hardware vendors may have some of the HMX terminals.t  G > I would recommend contacting a sales rep and asking questions to thems > as to what is available now. >aC > Let us know if you find anything worthwhile.  At least I would be 3 > curious about an update to the X Terminal market.   & Yes, please let us know what you find.  : Ed James                           ed.james@telecomsys.com5 TeleCommunications Systems, Inc.   voice 410-295-1919-5 2024 West Street, Suite 300        fax   410-280-1094r Annapolis, MD 21401-3556   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 16:10:52 -04005) From: "Ebinger . Eric" <EEbinger@drc.com>G1 Subject: RE: X terminals that speak DECnet or LAToB Message-ID: <7162F87E9EF4D311BA9900805FC1D3AE7A61CA@and02.drc.com>  * According to the NCD Explora 400 datasheetE (http://www.ncd.com/products/hardware/explora/400ds.html) it supportsyJ "108-key DEC-style (LK-401)" keyboards and supports the "legacy protocols"E DECnet, LAT, and TN3270.  It is worth noting that there quote request-A system has the DEC-style keyboard as one of the keyboard options.o  : I haven't used them (new VT510s were more cost effective).   Eric Ebinger   > -----Original Message-----F > From: jamese@BEAST.DTSW.ARMY.MIL [mailto:jamese@BEAST.DTSW.ARMY.MIL]' > Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 1:52 PMg > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 3 > Subject: Re: X terminals that speak DECnet or LATk >  > 4 > "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> wrote inA > <399D11B9.75B6E252@uiowa.edu> on Fri, 18 Aug 2000 15:36:41 GMT:- >  > > Randy Winfrey wrote: > > > 6 > > > Does anyone still manufacture an X terminal that? > > > communicates via DECnet or LAT. Jupiter used to sell one,o > > > but they don't anymore.x > > @ > > I researched this some long ago and we settled on Tektronix  > X Terminals.> > > (XP4xx line).  They did DECWindows over DECnet as well as 
 > having LAT,e: > > telnet, and CTERM VT340 emulators.  They can also run  > DECWindows oversH > > TCP/IP and used XDMCP for your Unix (& Multinet?) friends.  They hadG > > OpenVMS VAX and Alpha server software and up to 21" dual-head boxesuA > > that can connect to most X-type and some WinDoze servers too.u > > > > > However, Tek sold everything to NCD (which used to make X  > terms, but did  ) > > not support OpenVMS in the past), ...v > E > At the last place I worked, we used NCD 19C and HMX terminals, some-H > with LK201 style keyboards, and talked to OpenVMS just fine. You couldG > do telnet directly to OpenVMS or use XDCMP and get a DECWindows logino: > screen, just like at the console. There was NCD OpenVMS  > specific software." > that was on tape and also on CD. > * > > Here is one place to start looking at: > > . > > 	http://www.ncd.com/products/hardware/ncs/ > ; > Used hardware vendors may have some of the HMX terminals.l > 8 > > I would recommend contacting a sales rep and asking  > questions to themt  > > as to what is available now. > >uE > > Let us know if you find anything worthwhile.  At least I would bea5 > > curious about an update to the X Terminal market.u > ( > Yes, please let us know what you find. > < > Ed James                           ed.james@telecomsys.com7 > TeleCommunications Systems, Inc.   voice 410-295-1919S7 > 2024 West Street, Suite 300        fax   410-280-1094v > Annapolis, MD 21401-3556 >  >    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.462 ************************