1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 19 Aug 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 463       Contents:' Re: Analyze/error : intervening entries  RE: Big AlphaServer Sale Re: Changing address on MV3100 Re: Clusters versus disk arrays  Re: Clusters versus disk arrays   DECserver 700 documentation/help$ Re: DECserver 700 documentation/help  DECserver 700 documentation/help2 Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD2 Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD2 Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD< Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS systems (was Re: dose vms run on intel)* Re: OpenVMS / Alpha Web Server - Frontpage Re: OpenVMS Web Forum 0 Re: Platform migration - password extractions?!?0 Re: Platform migration - password extractions?!?0 Re: Platform migration - password extractions?!?, Platform migration - password extractions?!?0 Re: Platform migration - password extractions?!?/ Re: Problem using XV on my VAX 4000 Model 90's.   Search Engine Secrets Discovered. Re: Taking a MicroVax 3100-90 out of a cluster Re: What quota was exceeded ( Re: Why couldn't linux read a vms drive?( Re: Why couldn't linux read a vms drive?( Re: Why couldn't linux read a vms drive?( Re: Why couldn't linux read a vms drive?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 13:43:14 +0200 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>0 Subject: Re: Analyze/error : intervening entries( Message-ID: <8nlri9$a08$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  K Could be wrong, but I'd think that sometimes a lengthy entry is interrupted I by another entry (the "intervening entry"). The errorlogger tries to have G the time stamps in chronological order and puts the (sometimes) lengthy  details  in afterwards.  
 Hans Vlems  H JF Mezei heeft geschreven in bericht <399DDA7E.FF2D1A83@videotron.ca>...G >Why does Analize/error decide to postpone the listing of some errorlog  entries  >until the end ? > 8 >What is the logic behing having "intervening entries" ? > D >What causes one entry to be listed in order and another entry to be
 considered) >"intervening" and be listed at the end ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 13:05:25 -0400 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> ! Subject: RE: Big AlphaServer Sale J Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D8052846AE@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com>   David,  K While I can appreciate that the UNIX based programs that you are running in H your environment may not be running as fast as you would like them to orJ perhaps as fast as a native UNIX environment, please do not try to make itJ appear that VMS performance is behind on other programs that were designed/ to take advantage of VMS architectual features.   H As an example, many large and extremely IO intensive banks still use RMSI databases because they can not get the IO performance that they need from  databases like Oracle.  ; >>> It doesn't include small scale technical computing, <<<   F While OVMS obviously does not dominate the WS industry, take a look atH http://www.genetek.com/ - they have an extremely competitive workstationI offering (on OpenVMS) because it takes advantage of many of the Alpha and J OpenVMS specific features. Floating point 64bit performance is a killer onG the Alpha and their seismic solution takes advantage of these features.   I >>> Certain aspects of network performance are also inferior, but only by  factors of 2 or 3. <<   I So how does this explain the success of OpenVMS based solutions that have I huge network and disk IO like www.northernlight.com (one of the top rated F internet search engines), e*Trade (huge network and disk IO speaks for; itself), ISE (Internatinal Securities Exchange) reference:  6 http://www.iseoptions.com/about/technology_compaq.html  K >>> But Compaq is doing a rotten job of keeping the Alpha up to speed <<<<    L Since the 1Ghz x86 is below the cpu integer capabilities of the 833Mhz AlphaK and is not even close to the FP capabilities of the 667Mhz Alpha, I guess I L am missing something. The 833Mhz Alpha chip increases the FP lead even more.J The API systems are competitive in pricing with equivalent 1Ghz WS systemsJ as well. Keep in mind the 1ghz x86 cpu's are WS or small 1 or 2 cpu server offerings only right now.   F In addition, for technical computing where FP is used quite a bit, theG 600Mhz DS10 is better than the 1Ghz x86 in FP capabilities (1Ghz=335 vs  DS10=411 vs API 833Mhz=644).  K Reference the new standard benchmark for measuring CPU, memory and compiler  performance:4 http://www.spec.org/osg/cpu2000/results/cpu2000.html  L >>> so I don't know how longer they'll be able to hold onto the Linux end of the market. <<<   J Well, if you think Compaq plans to ignore Linux, check out these articles:2 http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB20000814S0018J http://alllinuxdevices.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2000-07-05-001-02-NW-LF-CM  L Well, how about another example - perhaps these folks are doing this because# they have nothing better to do eh ? > http://www.informix.com/ (see announcement on home page today); http://www.informix.com/informix/press/2000/aug/linux.html  I "Informix, Compaq and SuSE Team to Deliver Alpha Linux Computing Platform  for e-Business"    or these folks: 4 http://www.turbolinux.com/news/pr/alpha-release.htmlB "TurboLinux Launches High-Performance 64-Bit OS for Alpha Systems"  F >>> in the last 6 months the speed of Athlons and PIII's has more than doubled. <<   J Wrong. Are you saying 6 months ago, the highest available chip was 500Mhz?K If you meant performance, then I am sure you know this already, but CPU Mhz 2 does not provide a true indication of performance.  J Reality check: (same name chip used for comparison of different speeds and published Spec CPU2000 results) # 667Mhz x86 rating = 314 int; 223 FP # 800Mhz x86 rating = 355 int; 256 FP $ 1Ghz x86 rating   = 441 int; 284 FP   I Does this look like x86 cpu performance has "doubled" to you? Now compare  to:   * 833Mhz Alpha API rating = 533 int; 644 FP.  C Based on above, I fail to see how you feel Alpha has not kept up in 
 performance.     Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant,
 Compaq Canada  Professional Services  Voice : 613-592-4660 FAX   : 819-772-7036 Email : kerry.main@compaq.com        -----Original Message-----# From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu & [mailto:mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu]% Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 4:14 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ! Subject: Re: Big AlphaServer Sale     > In article <8nbuj2$chvs$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>, "Fred Kleinsorge"% <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:  >   >Stuart, Ed wrote in message ...L >>The Q may not be able to sell VMS AlphaServers, but it looks like they are; >>able to sell Tru64 AlphaServers.  See the write-up below.  >>H >I'll take some offense to this.  We quite easily sell VMS AlphaServers. Lot K >of 'em, and more all the time.  What you describe below is not exactly the E >VMS sweet spot any longer (which is too bad) - that is - large scale # >technical (in fact MPP) computing.   F VMS has a very, very small sweet spot.  It doesn't include small scaleB technical computing, or small and medium scale business computing,J basically anything where you don't have a data center and wads of money to spend.    > The main factors that drove driving OpenVMS out of this marketI (specifically, technical computing), and act to keep it out still,  are:    F   1.  Digital let key aspects of OpenVMS performance fall 2 orders of H       magnitude behind the competition and Compaq has yet to repair thisA       damage.  (They are working on it.) The worst areas are pipe (       performance and especially "disk" H       performance (due to the absence of a usable disk cache).  Certain K       aspects of network performance are also inferior, but only by factors H       of 2 or 3. CPU performance is comparable between Tru64, Linux, and OpenVMS.H       OpenVMS is much better in terms of management and the stability ofH       tools like Backup - but when you're that slow, such factors aren't$       going to make any difference.   F       In my hands common "technical" code running on VMS can easily beJ       100x slower (if disk IO is limiting) than that of competing OS's andG       is rarely even within a factor of 2 or 3 in speed.  The only time H       VMS is ever competitive is for programs that do very little IO and spend J       all of their time CPU bound.   (And by all of this I'm referring to I       different OS's on identical hardware.)  The product is wrapped in a J       mantle of quality but for typical tasks it's dog slow.  Using VMS inG       this kind of environment is kind of like driving around town in a J       tank - you're completely safe but it costs a fortune for gas and you       top out at 20 mph.  F   2.  Tru64 costs less than OpenVMS absolutely (by a small amount) andK       Linux is free (but costs more to support than Tru64). Tru64 and Linux F       work just fine for scientific computing using NFS and YP but youE       simply must have cluster licenses to get N VMS machines to work A       together well, and those licenses are very very expensive.  G       Take (1) and divide by (2) and you find the key factor - terrible '       performance at a very high price.   K   3.  For really parallel work you must have PVM, MPI, and the like.  These H       essential tools are either not available or are in a poor state ofH       support on OpenVMS.  That's all the more annoying because OpenVMS H       clusters are intrinsically better designed to support this sort ofJ       parallel infrastructure - ie, cluster locks are not an afterthought.  ; And assuming Compaq ever gets a handle on 1-3 there is also   A   4.  Having been uncompetitive for so long virtually all of the  E       programs (technical or otherwise) now expect to build in a Unix B       environment.  OpenVMS does not provide a sufficiently Unixy B       environment to build software easily - making it very costlyH       in terms of labor to move software onto the platform.  "Technical"D       software doesn't tend to make all that much use of OS specificH       APIs, so getting it to run once you get beyond the build procedureE       is often very little work.  (Threaded code is very easy - older >       fork() based code can be very hard to deal with though.)  L       (I'm ignoring all windows and Mac software because for all intents and?       purposes that cannot be moved to either Unix or OpenVMS.)   H I dispute the assertion that this is a problem solely in the "technical"J market.  There is very little difference between "technical" software and H many types of "business" software, and these same factors above keep VMSG out of many markets.   They don't keep VMS out of the fortune 500 data  D center market, which is lucrative, but not where 95% of the world's  computing dollars dollars go.   J I'd also like to note that it is my observation that the only people goingJ with N Tru64 systems are those with money to burn (national labs, Celera.)E Anybody who has budget constraints and also needs good floating point J performance (and so can justify Alpha) tends to go with Linux.  But CompaqJ is doing a rotten job of keeping the Alpha up to speed so I don't know howK longer they'll be able to hold onto the Linux end of the market.  The small H Alpha building blocks (those with best performance/price) have not had aF speed upgrade in ages (the DS10 is still at 466 Mhz) and in the last 6K months the speed of Athlons and PIII's has more than doubled.  6 months ago K the DS10 beowulf we purchased made sense - but today I'd probably go with a & heap of dual processor PIIIs instead.    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech     ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 10:58:45 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>' Subject: Re: Changing address on MV3100 - Message-ID: <399EA0A5.F91B1490@tsoft-inc.com>    Balexi Yurguat wrote:  > 	 > Anyone?  > / > How would I change my _dkb100: to dkb400: ???   O Some details of just what dkb100: is, type of disk, how attached, etc.  This is O assuming you want to change the SCSI ID.  Usually involves moving a jumper from K the 1 position to the 4 position.  The disks are addressed, for SCSI ID, in  binary using 3 sets of jumpers.   M Or, if you just have a program with "dkb400:" hard coded somewhere, you could / define a logical dkb400 with a value of dkb100.    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 00:53:49 -0500 ) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> ( Subject: Re: Clusters versus disk arrays. Message-ID: <sps83e6687v50@corp.supernews.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:399DE56E.E9C89C7B@videotron.ca... > Sanity check please: > G > I am aware of the volume shadowing capabilities of VMS which make the  building, > of a disaster tolerant site nice and easy. > L > But I came to wonder. What if a disk array manufacturer were to build diskH > arrays that have volume shadowing between two arrays linked by fiber ?  I I seem to recall our Compaq representative tell me that was now available  for HSG80s.   D > Would this not allow a basic NT server to be built into a disaster tolerantD > system with disks shadowed by the disk array (independantly of how	 primitive F > the operating system might be) and just have the remove server be in stand-by > mode ?  K As Windows NT clusters are a shared nothing, with a common quorum disk that B is used to track what node is the master and what is the slave, anJ interesting condition could happen if the network were severed completely.L Both systems could find them selves owning all disks, and thinking they were the master.   J If you do not mirror the quorum disk, then if the network was severed, theG site that you want to survive may not have enough information to do so.   " > Do such arrays exist right now ?   I am sure that they do.   J > The main difference is the lack of a DLM, right ? How much of a drawback isJ > this for database systems ?  Don't many database systems have their home grown 7 > DLMs anyways ? Do such DLMs work over network links ?   F DLM only needs to arbitrate between multiple accessors.  With a volume< exclusively owned by one system, there is only one accessor.  H > If a "NT cluster" is really needed to do this, and if NT Clusters only workB > through a shared SCSI, can SCSI be bridged between 2 buildings ?  ! NT Clusters support fibrechannel.   L > A former customer for whom I had built a disaster tolerant VMS system will beJ > forced to migrate away from VMS in a year or two when the application noK > longer exists on VMS (ST400) and I'd like some idea on whether they'll be  ableG > to build an NT based disaster tolerant system with whatever solutions  might be > available.  G This is an area of it not being possible to tell how well an NT cluster I would fit their applications.  I would definitely recommend them learning 0 exactly how the NT cluster failover model works.  J It also matters how the systems that connect up to the system handle briefI network interruptions, and how much time that you have to switch from the  primary to the backup.  G In many cases I have discovered that having a mirrored storage or an NT L cluster is not the right solution.  It may be better and possibly cheaper toF have two identical systems at different locations, and have some otherE software make sure that the backup is up to date so it can take over.    -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 08:48:37 GMT % From: Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com> ( Subject: Re: Clusters versus disk arrays) Message-ID: <8nlhl3$714$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   ( In article <8nl4lc$8d2$1@pyrite.mv.net>,*   "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote: > : > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:399DE56E.E9C89C7B@videotron.ca... > > Sanity check please: > > E > > I am aware of the volume shadowing capabilities of VMS which make ; > > the building of a disaster tolerant site nice and easy.  > >eC > > But I came to wonder. What if a disk array manufacturer were toaC > > build disk arrays that have volume shadowing between two arrays  > > linked by fiber ?k >rF > I'm not sure you need anything so special:  doesn't NT support Fibre > Channel already?  D Yes. FC_AL and switched Fabric is avalable since quite some time. MeF and my colleagues have built such configurations since about one year.  > > If so, ftDisk or Win2K Volume Manager are already capable ofC > software-mirroring between a local drive and one up to 10 km awayeA > that a standby server at the same remote location (or somewhereiC > else, for that matter) can take over if the primary server fails.m  B > I don't know that NT or Win2K clustering facilities will work in > such a configuration  A If both systems are active, this is called a 'stretched cluster'.X" Some configurations are available.  @ > (though if the FC can masquerade as SCSI for that purpose they	 > might),a  @ 'Masquerade SCSI'? I guess I misunderstood you, but: serial SCSI/ protocol _is used_ in the mapping layer (FC-4).l  ? > but otherwise there's nothing magical about having the remote A > server recover the file system after the primary fails (as long-A > as the primary is guaranteed to remain dead...) and applicationvD > restart and take-over of IP address restart can just be explicitly" > scripted if not fully automated.  @ Well. I have worked with NT clusters (Digital Clusters for WNT +A MSCS) a little. You can select if a failback is allowed to happeng@ when the failed system comes back or if the resource should stay once it has failed over.6 I guess this capability exists in W2000 clusters, too.  @ What you cannot use (non)fault tolerant sets (RAID-0,1,5) on theA shared bus. Each system still requires a separate system disk and 0 the information is stored in the local registry.  A With the latest FC-HBA you can boot into the fabric (hey, now you @ can even replicate you system disks, which is fine if you have a? cold standby system at the recovery site!), but it doesn't work- with SecurePath, yet...0  F > > Would this not allow a basic NT server to be built into a disasterH > > tolerant system with disks shadowed by the disk array (independantlyE > > of how primitive the operating system might be) and just have the ' > > remove server be in stand-by mode ?i > >o$ > > Do such arrays exist right now ?  A Yes. HSG-80 Fibre Channel Raid Controllers with 'Data ReplicationvB Manager' (DRM) Software. Watch out! This is non-trivial and cost aC lot of money. You need a special version of the controller firmwareVA (currently ACS V8.5P) - the current list price is 54,220 Deutschel Marks - you need 4 of them.e  C > > The main difference is the lack of a DLM, right ? How much of ae@ > > drawback is this for database systems ?  Don't many databaseB > > systems have their home grown DLMs anyways ? Do such DLMs work > > over network links ? >lD > DLMs just aren't necessary unless you want true concurrent (ratherB > than failed-over) disk access, a distributed (vs. centralized atD > the server) cache, or application-level facilities that coordinateE > among multiple concurrent instances on different nodes (vs., again,vC > simply failing over such that only one instance is ever active atn
 > a time).   Let me add to this. ? Data Repl. Mgr. works on the logical block level of the disks - ? the HSG-80 has no idea what a file system, a file or a lock is. B That's the reason it works with WNT/W2000, OpenVMS, Tru64 Unix and Solaris.  @ The target volumes aren't even visible to the host during normal
 operation.  E > > If a "NT cluster" is really needed to do this, and if NT ClusterstB > > only work through a shared SCSI, can SCSI be bridged between 2 > > buildings ?   E I have been told by our sales people that Compaq doesn't even supportpA (new) SCSI-based NT clusters any more - you _need_ Fibre Channel.a  B > > A former customer for whom I had built a disaster tolerant VMSC > > system will be forced to migrate away from VMS in a year or two E > > when the application no longer exists on VMS (ST400) and I'd likeeF > > some idea on whether they'll be able to build an NT based disaster? > > tolerant system with whatever solutions might be available.M >DA > Disaster tolerance does not imply any need for concurrent disk-SB > sharing or distributed lock management:  those features are onlyH > relevant to scaling issues, not simple ability to fail over operationsC > to another site that was previously not involved (though it couldeD > have been doing some *other* useful work:  binary, symmetric fail-E > over pairs are fine as long as each can handle both loads by itselft > should the other fail).t  F Get someone who has experience with DRM. It sounds easy, but there are= many things that can go wrong and crush your customer's data.h   > - bill   --
 Uwe Zessin    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.f   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 11:38:44 -0400n* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>) Subject: DECserver 700 documentation/helpn- Message-ID: <399EAA04.B3466E33@tsoft-inc.com>t  P I've got a used DECserver 700, no documentation.  I've looked on both COmpaq andP Cabletron sites for such, and no luck.  I am rather poor at finding stuff on web$ pages, so the fault's probably mine.  O When powered up, connected with a 10baseT connection, I get no response on portpP 1, terminal set to 9600 baud.  The green light by the 10baseT connection blinks,N indicating (I'd think) network activity.  The light by the power cord is off. O The led blinks, what I'd call an 'A' without the cross bar, or maybe an 'n', or0' maybe it's upside down, and it's a 'U'.2  G Any pointers to documentation?  Any users who recognize the LED signal?2   Dave   -- t4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 11:41:59 -0500 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>m- Subject: Re: DECserver 700 documentation/helpm- Message-ID: <399EB8D7.9CD09EAE@earthlink.net>g   David A Froble wrote:  > R > I've got a used DECserver 700, no documentation.  I've looked on both COmpaq andR > Cabletron sites for such, and no luck.  I am rather poor at finding stuff on web& > pages, so the fault's probably mine. > Q > When powered up, connected with a 10baseT connection, I get no response on port R > 1, terminal set to 9600 baud.  The green light by the 10baseT connection blinks,O > indicating (I'd think) network activity.  The light by the power cord is off..Q > The led blinks, what I'd call an 'A' without the cross bar, or maybe an 'n', or ) > maybe it's upside down, and it's a 'U'.b > I > Any pointers to documentation?  Any users who recognize the LED signal?   B 'Bout all I know for sure is that the blinking green LED means theC 10BaseT port is selected instead of the AUI port. It really doesn't  indicate activity.  D Some DS700s have flash memory to boot from, others do not. It may beE searching for a load host (WWENG1.SYS, I think). Do you have anythingcF "listening" for MOP load requests? If so, can you REPLY/ENABLE and see if it's hearing load requests?  G Then again, you should be seeing messages on PORT_1 indicating what thea server is trying to do.    Dunno... May be hosed...   -- ) David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsf http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   H This *IS* comp.os.vms. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 12:53:54 -0400n2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>) Subject: DECserver 700 documentation/help 7 Message-ID: <200008191254_MC2-B055-669C@compuserve.com>n  J         Hang in there and keep looking.  There is a DEC/Compaq website wi= thB DECserver 700 documentation.  Sorry, I don't have the URL at home.  J         The box is probably waiting for a download of its software.  Do y= ouC have the WWENG1.SYS on your system?  Do you have "service" enabled?   J         Some DS700s have a Flash Card with WWENG2.SYS but, since it was a= nsJ Extra Cost option (and you know what that means) most people didn't buy i= t.    & Message text written by David A FrobleF >I've got a used DECserver 700, no documentation.  I've looked on both
 COmpaq andJ Cabletron sites for such, and no luck.  I am rather poor at finding stuff=   on web$ pages, so the fault's probably mine.  J When powered up, connected with a 10baseT connection, I get no response o= n  portH 1, terminal set to 9600 baud.  The green light by the 10baseT connection blinks,,H indicating (I'd think) network activity.  The light by the power cord is off. =  G The led blinks, what I'd call an 'A' without the cross bar, or maybe ani 'n', or ' maybe it's upside down, and it's a 'U'.e  G Any pointers to documentation?  Any users who recognize the LED signal?l <e   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 10:45:29 GMTe= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)t; Subject: Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CDu0 Message-ID: <009EED31.87311490@SendSpamHere.ORG>   In article <Pine.LNX.4.05.10008181800330.26314-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com>, Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com> writes:: >On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: > N >> In article <399C5333.F6B565DC@vrx.net>, Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net> writes:. >> >even a few SGI machines. VMS? what's that? >> t@ >> Many don't.  Many don't, IMHO, even teach "computer science". >oG >> Occasionally, I get a mail or FAX from a college/university student fC >> looking for a job after graduation.  The resumes are pathetic.  e >i >[Many amusing things snipped] >i >>   Programming Languages >> yD >>   Micro$oft Word, Micro$oft XL, Micro$oft Visual Basic, Micro$oftE >>   C, Micro$oft Visual C, Micro$oft Visual C++, Micro$oft Exchange,rD >>   Micro$oft Office, Micro$oft IIS, Micro$oft FrontPage, Micro$oftE >>   Exploiter, Micro$oft HTML, Micro$oft Java, Micro$oft JavaScript,n >>   Micro$oft Pig-Latin >eC >I agree completely that most of the "computer scientists" that aret5 >produced by universitys today are microshaft fodder.v >eG >I do have to say, though, in my own defense as well as that of others, H >that it's nearly impossible to get a company to look at you most of theJ >time without crap like that on your resume. (allthough, putting it in the1 >"programming languages" section is amusing... ;)s >eK >Anyway, the point is, I have some microshaft garbage on my resume too, butgC >only because of worries that some phb somewhere will see that it'ssE >"missing" and give the job to some idiot who's got it.  Please don'ttE >assume that anyone who puts that kind of stuff on their resume is ane >absolute idiot. :)o  C The content of many of the resumes shows little more than a 4 year oA training exercise in gaining experience with "microshaft fodder"!e  C Few college students have little if no experience to place on their C resumes and thus, fill it with tidbits of classes and projects thatoC were in support of their would hope to be professional career.  ThepC purpose of a college education is to provide the foundations of thegC discipline of study and, IMHO, not to produce graduates polished upyD on the latest "microshaft fodder" such that some phb can stake claimB to have bagged the larger quota of MCSEs (or some other portentousC "microshaft fodder") than another three-martini-lunch-guzzling phb.9C (... and speaking of portentous "microshaft fodder", a local county C college 'adult education' pamphlet littered yesterdays mail.  In ituC was a course to help one gain his/her MOUS -- Micro$oft Office Useri" Something-or-other certification.)  D I took my degree in Electronics Eng. and that course of study had meC taking classes in electronic device physics; communications theory;jD modern and classical physics; general, vector and tensor calculus; aF plethora of circuit analysis lectures; electromagnetics and radiation;E and miscellaneous other filler courses to "round out" the education. aC None of these classes concentrated on whether or not I could "wieldID a soldering iron".  In otherwords, I believe a college or universityE education should be for the study of the technical or theoretical as-eC pects of one's chosen career or path of study.  If you want to knowqE how to run "application-X", then spend your time and money in a trade6 school.r   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM9   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 11:00:12 GMTo= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)l; Subject: Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CD 0 Message-ID: <009EED33.95222E60@SendSpamHere.ORG>  t In article <slrn8ps0te.1d7q.rivie@server.newlogan.teraglobal>, rivie@server.newlogan.teraglobal (Roger Ivie) writes:D >In article <399D5577.6F7606DF@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble wrote:Q >>Bad example.  The ODS-2 disk structure is documented.  Not sure where or how toyM >>get the documentation at this moment, but I do know it exists.  For a Linux N >>driver for such, I'm sure I could get the appropriate documentation.  Source< >>listings are the last place I'd look for such information. >oP >The VMS Filesystems Internals book would be a good place to start. I don't haveQ >my copy on this particular bookshelf, so I can't give you the exact title. Let's.' >see what fatbrain.com comes up with...i >aM >Ah, here we go: "VMS File System Internals" by Kirby McCoy. ISBN 013991783X.u) >Fatbrain says it's out of print, though.e  H I have to strongly agree and urge that the books which have been writtenH to explore the internal workings of various aspects of VMS are the placeH to start.  I have listings but I wouldn't know where to begin and I mostI certainly, I wouldn't start a study of VMS internals via perusing them.     J The "OpenVMS I&DS" and the current "Scheduling and Process Control" adden-I dum, the "VMS File System Internals", and the "VAXcluster Principles" arewI must haves and far more useful that the source listings.  Pound for poundaJ and dollar for dollar, I wager one would garner a much better appreciationI for the working of VMS from any above cited manual (and others) than froma( a tediously reading the source listings.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMy   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 15:24:26 GMTd( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>; Subject: Re: Here we go again - WTB/T/etc source listing CDe' Message-ID: <FzJpGq.9CK@spcuna.spc.edu>   ? Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- <system@sendspamhere.org> writes:sE > Few college students have little if no experience to place on theirlE > resumes and thus, fill it with tidbits of classes and projects thataE > were in support of their would hope to be professional career.  TherE > purpose of a college education is to provide the foundations of therE > discipline of study and, IMHO, not to produce graduates polished upiF > on the latest "microshaft fodder" such that some phb can stake claimD > to have bagged the larger quota of MCSEs (or some other portentousE > "microshaft fodder") than another three-martini-lunch-guzzling phb. E > (... and speaking of portentous "microshaft fodder", a local county-E > college 'adult education' pamphlet littered yesterdays mail.  In it E > was a course to help one gain his/her MOUS -- Micro$oft Office Usera$ > Something-or-other certification.)  K [Disclaimer - my opinions, not SPC's - and I'm sure they disagree with me.]o  I   There are a couple of issues here. First is that many colleges expandedaJ greatly during the "everybody should have a college education" period, andJ in order to avoid downsizing (or flat-out going out of business, as a num-J ber of schools in this area have done) they have to provide something thatI is *perceived by the students* to be of value. Without that, there's lessa enrollment, and so on.  J   Next, partially because of the above and perhaps because of the school'sJ "market research", the courses offered reflect what students and employersI want, at least to some degree. For example, SPC taught RPG for many yearscH after it was no longer offered at other schools because there was a hugeJ demand for RPG programmers in this area. Similarly, Microsoft applicationsI are taught because there is demand for people who are familiar with them.tH This is simply market reality - if students thinking about attending SPCH were told that SPC didn't offer those courses, they'd go somewhere else,4 which would lead to declining enrollment, and so on.  - 	Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.coma5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USAl   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 01:04:23 -0500i) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net>nE Subject: Re: Hobbyist OpenVMS systems (was Re: dose vms run on intel) / Message-ID: <sps8n8sp87v103@corp.supernews.com>a  L I am finding 72 pin parity SIMMS, 70ns in of all places, scrapped 486 Server
 class PCs.  I So far the largest I have found is 16MB sized ones, but four of them meett% the minimum requirement for a Multia.   A These servers seem to be available cheaper than their components.   J When looking for parts for a hobby system, keep in mind that sometimes youE can get a system that contains the component for less money includingc8 shipment costs, than what you can get the component for.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 10:14:31 +0200n  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>3 Subject: Re: OpenVMS / Alpha Web Server - Frontpages+ Message-ID: <VA.000000a3.10800469@sture.ch>l  1 In article <8nitqv$7nd$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,  wrote:o > From: steliosc@my-deja.com > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms 1 > Subject: OpenVMS / Alpha Web Server - Frontpages% > Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 08:58:14 GMTn > , > Greetings creatures from the planet Earth! > D >   Does anybody out there have any good ideas how to publish snazzyG > sites on VMS? I have Frontpage / Flash / Dreamweaver etc. etc. skillsiI > bit so far I have had to laboriously set up HTML and CGI scripts in DCL G > to get my scripts working on VMS using Cern Web Server. Now I want to.D > go to the next level of snazziness and use the 'easy' tools with a > decent back end (OpenVMS). > J This _may_ be of interest to you, maybe not, but my ISP runs Unix systems J (according to the blurb anyway, although www.netcraft.com reports them as ) using Linux, which could be a front end).   E However, they do support Frontpage, and they put a load of Frontpage  C stuff in my directories too (I assume they saw me coming in from a y5 Windows box and made the assumption I might want it).   C The point I am making is that someone, somewhere, has translated /  F emulated / ported the Frontpage server stuff to Unix / Linux. You may ) wish to make enquiries in that direction.  ___,
 Paul Sture Switzerlandi   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Aug 2000 08:48:34 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)n Subject: Re: OpenVMS Web Forum+ Message-ID: <WZKWsuaVgb64@eisner.decus.org>R  B In article <8nkab9$5b7@usenet.pa.dec.com>, (Warren Sander) writes:  L > I'm also going to split off the questions from before 2000 into a seperateQ > file to try to make loading the main page faster. The searches etc will executevM > on the entire list of questions. I'm also going to leave a 'full' index outaD > there for those of you who enjoy loading pages that are over 500KB  F Ok, you probably have a good handle on how much disk space is required0 to store Ask The Wizard from the last millenium.  I Just be aware the next millenium of VMS questions may take more space :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 02:39:24 -0400y- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 9 Subject: Re: Platform migration - password extractions?!?n, Message-ID: <399E2B74.F5A09CE2@videotron.ca>   Dan Evans wrote:E > to a new platform running iPlanet on Solaris.  Is there any hope ofu< > extracting the users' passwords from the sysuaf.dat file?   M Brute force. You can get the hashed password from the UAF and then generate atM gazillion password combinations until the encrypted one matches the encryptedl one you extracted from the UAF.t  G Question: would it be possible to implement the same hashing/encryptioneK algorythm(s) on the target UNIX platform, which would allow one to transfer F the engrypted VMS passwords over to the new platform without having to de-encrypt them ?   F > Also, the mail platform they're using is PMDF.  I must migrate their$ > mail as transparently as possible   H You could write an application which uses the callable MAIL interface to. extract the messages and format them properly.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 10:14:43 +0200@  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>9 Subject: Re: Platform migration - password extractions?!?o+ Message-ID: <VA.000000a4.10803250@sture.ch>,  < In article <399E2B74.F5A09CE2@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei wrote:/ > From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmss; > Subject: Re: Platform migration - password extractions?!?t' > Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 02:39:24 -0400  >  > Dan Evans wrote:G > > to a new platform running iPlanet on Solaris.  Is there any hope ofa> > > extracting the users' passwords from the sysuaf.dat file?  > O > Brute force. You can get the hashed password from the UAF and then generate a,O > gazillion password combinations until the encrypted one matches the encrypted ! > one you extracted from the UAF.n > L But since the hashing algorithm is "one way", it follows that more than one F password can end up with the same hashed value. I've no idea what the E statistics are like for this, but I'd expect plenty of wrong answers.   I > Question: would it be possible to implement the same hashing/encryption M > algorythm(s) on the target UNIX platform, which would allow one to transfer H > the engrypted VMS passwords over to the new platform without having to > de-encrypt them ?  >  That is another alternative...  H > > Also, the mail platform they're using is PMDF.  I must migrate their& > > mail as transparently as possible  > J > You could write an application which uses the callable MAIL interface to0 > extract the messages and format them properly. >    ___i
 Paul Sture Switzerlandp   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Aug 2000 08:58:53 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)t9 Subject: Re: Platform migration - password extractions?!? + Message-ID: <Kh1Q0Vv9PhaG@eisner.decus.org>r   In article <rdeininger-1808002346340001@user-2ive6fd.dialup.mindspring.com>, rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: I > In article <399df4cb.2891277@news.mebtel.net>, xaphan@mebtel.net wrote:t > I >> I work for a company who has purchased a completely oursourced ISP andaI >> they run entirely on VMS.  There are 11,000+ users that I must migrateI2 >> to a new platform running iPlanet on Solaris.     >> Is there any hope ofc> >> extracting the users' passwords from the sysuaf.dat file?   > I > I don't think so.  VMS stores passwords in encrypted form, and there iss$ > no decription algorithm available.  F The various VMS password hash algorithms have been available for yearsH through unofficial channels, and of course they are on the listings kit.F It is precisely this availability of source listings that gives us allC our confidence in the non-reversability of the hash function. (I docC suppose, though, the fact that 31 characters of password data won'toF really fit into 8 bytes of hash data is another source of confidence.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 08:43:58 -0400,2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>5 Subject: Platform migration - password extractions?!?c6 Message-ID: <200008190844_MC2-B04D-8D7@compuserve.com>  J         There's no hope!  The password hash is not reversable.  It might = beH possible, with enough computing power, to run all possible six characterJ strings through the algorithm, then all seven character strings, all eigh= t.C . .  till you found some string that matched the hashed password. =v  J Unfortunately, there is no guarantee that the string you find is the same=  J one the user chose.  The problem is complicated by the fact that, over th= edJ past twenty years, four different hash algorithms have been used.  If the=  E system has been in use long enough and if the users are not forced tolH change their passwords, it is possible that you will encounter more than one algorithm!  G         As for the mail problem, if these users are employees, they areoJ going to be seriously annoyed by the change.  If they are customers, they=  J will probably soon be ex-customers!!!  I don't recall that Unix mail uses=  H folders to organize mail.  VMS MAIL and, I imagine, PMDF, do!  The heavyH mail user who has several hundred or several thousand messages stored in/ dozens of different folders will not be amused!   H         You want suggestions?  Try looking for a smarter employer!  TheyE have given you a toy shovel and sent you off to dig the Grand Canyon!m  2 Message text written by INTERNET:xaphan@mebtel.netG >I work for a company who has purchased a completely oursourced ISP and0F they run entirely on VMS.  There are 11,000+ users that I must migrateC to a new platform running iPlanet on Solaris.  Is there any hope offE extracting the users' passwords from the sysuaf.dat file?  I'm tryingAE to make the migration as seamless as possible and I don't really wantbB to have 11,000 helpdesk calls on the day of the ultimate cut over.  D Also, the mail platform they're using is PMDF.  I must migrate theirB mail as transparently as possible - I have found perl scripts that? will convert the VMS mail files to a "/var/mail" type after theeD "extract/all filename.txt" from the mail utility, but the extractionC does not look the same running in PMDF as it does with standard VMSVF mail... and the script is to convert the VMS mail.  Any suggestions or( assistance would be GREATLY appreciated! <,   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 10:49:43 -0400T* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>9 Subject: Re: Platform migration - password extractions?!? - Message-ID: <399E9E87.5A4ED6EF@tsoft-inc.com>e   Dan Evans wrote: > H > I work for a company who has purchased a completely oursourced ISP andH > they run entirely on VMS.  There are 11,000+ users that I must migrateE > to a new platform running iPlanet on Solaris.  Is there any hope of.G > extracting the users' passwords from the sysuaf.dat file?  I'm tryingnG > to make the migration as seamless as possible and I don't really want D > to have 11,000 helpdesk calls on the day of the ultimate cut over.  P I'm sure you're already amused by the replies you've gotten so far.  Sorry aboutO that.  You've asked for something that just isn't possible.  It was designed tos be impossible.  P You might want to explore just how much of the data you can actually get, and ifL sufficient, set these customers up on a VMS system if you must bring them inJ house.  That way you can have an alternative for your boss when you reportL failure on his 'brilliant' idea.  I'm wondering if the outsource provider isM willing to continue providing service.  You might be able to negotiate betteriO rates or such, I'm sure that they won't mind keeping a VMS system running.  YoueN could offer to buy the system.  You won't get much sympathy on comp.os.vms forO wanting to remove an application from VMS.  Most folks here think it's the besthN solution for most things, and definitely for your task.  Not many will want to+ discuss what is perceived as a stupid task.u  F > Also, the mail platform they're using is PMDF.  I must migrate theirD > mail as transparently as possible - I have found perl scripts thatA > will convert the VMS mail files to a "/var/mail" type after thenF > "extract/all filename.txt" from the mail utility, but the extractionE > does not look the same running in PMDF as it does with standard VMSeH > mail... and the script is to convert the VMS mail.  Any suggestions or* > assistance would be GREATLY appreciated!  M About all your company bought is the subscribers.  Looks like the subscriberssP are going to be annoyed, at the least.  Wonder how much of the purchase is going
 to evaporate.a   Dave   -- v4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------    Date: 19 Aug 2000 08:39:20 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)8 Subject: Re: Problem using XV on my VAX 4000 Model 90's.( Message-ID: <399e2b98@news.kapsch.co.at>  j In article <399D9B0F.66933C3D@gte.net>, Jeff - Coachella Valley Water <cyberunlimited.org@gte.net> writes:F >Does anyone know of a reason that my VAX 4000 Model 90's will totally? >wig out and have to be rebooted when I'm using the XV Program? F >The command line that I cam using is: "xv -loadclear -owncmap -8 -dirE >[.images] -flist filenames.txt". I am displaying .JPG's and I noticer >thatyI >they look better when I use 8 bit processing and force XV to use his owni@ >color map.  Do I need to upgrade my Video Board or can I get byD >with adding more memory? Has any one else come across this problem?  K 1.) Wrong newsgroup. Use COMP.OS.VMS instead. There are more people hangingaK around as this newsgroup is for german speaking readers/specialities of VMSt 	=> xp and fup to comp.os.vmsa  ' 2.) What versions of what do you have ?h
 	OpenVMS ? 	DECwindows[-MOTIF[/CDE]] ?  	XV ?c  I 3.) What do you mean with "wig out" ? Does the X11 server crash ? You cant/ 	restart it without rebooting the whole system.v  H 4.) There are some hints about increasing various parameters for various@ 	graphic cards. I'm not aware of this for a VAXstation 4090, but> 	better see the VMS FAQ http://www.openvms.digital.com/wizard/  E 5.) I'm not aware of upgrades or replacements for the VAXstation 4090c> 	graphic adapter. See also the VMS FAQ in the VMS wizard zone.   -- l< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888o< FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netF <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 01:02:30 -0500 (EST)d From: Magic@mx-054.fsnet.co.uk) Subject: Search Engine Secrets Discovereds6 Message-ID: <200008190932.EAA21488@gavilan.fap.mil.pe>  7 "Amazing Search Engine Secrets Discovered By A Computers4 Illiterate Man in Massachusetts Can Practically Hand6 You the Top Search Engine Positions...And Add 1,550=20" Hits a Day to Web Site Overnight!"   Dear Friend,  > Remember the first time you built a web site. You stayed up=20= until the early morning working it out so that it would be=20 = just perfect. Then, you were finally done and you sat back=20h! and thought, "The World is Good."   ; After that, you've dreamed of all the visitors your site=20e: would have, how they would all see your ad and buy your=20= product.  Then it hit you, like a ton of bricks....How was=20 # anyone going to find your web site?o  > You thought about it for a while and eventually thought you=20< had the answer....submit your site to the search engines.=20; But after you submitted your site you checked it out and=20r couldn't find it.n  . So you waited a few days.....and still nothing  = You couldn't even find your site if you looked up your own=20s name!!!r  8 Then, you got discouraged....after all that hard work=20 NOTHING?!?!?  * And this is where most people give up..... BUT You Don't Have To...  = You can achieve top 20 positioning for your web site...and=20a< the tens of thousands of hits which come with it...if you=20. have the "Right" information available to you.   For Example, did you know:  ? * Infoseek, Alta Vista, and HotBot ban web sites which break=20c: their rules (many of the 'insider' techniques most experts= recommend will get you banned faster than you could imagine).g  : * Many search engines limit the number of pages you can=20= submit from your domain (some only allow you to submit one=20e? page for best results), although we can show you a technique=20c+ we use to get hundreds of our pages listed.r  9 * Yahoo only lists about 1% of the web in their actual=20e< directory.  To even get your page listed, you may have to=20 use the "backdoor".h  = * Using a so-called search engine submission software that=20n: submits your site to 1,000 or more search engines could=20= actually get your page deleted from the major search engines.,  ; * 95% of Internet traffic originates at one of the 10 major 8 search engines...If you're not listed, you might as well not even have a web site!s  < * Choosing the most effective 'keywords' is one of the major< keys to a successful web site submission...Pick the right=20> ones and your web site will look like Grand Central Station=20 during rush hour!r  @ It has taken us over 2 years to learn how to consistently and=20? without fail place any type of web site in the top 20 of the=20l major search engines.   ; Normally, we charge $500 per keyword that you want a top=20 A ranking on (plus a monthly fee of $150 for keeping that rank),=20o> but we have found we just don't have enough time for all of=201 the clients that desperately need our services...o  8 So, we have produced a "Search Engine Magic" interactive: CD-ROM that will show you step by step how to create pages> which storm the search engines and lay hold to the precious=20= Top 20 positions that millions of people are trying to reach.d  < The Search Engine Magic CD-ROM consists of 21 interactive=20> video and audio lessons that will run on any IBM compatible=20= computer showing you the exact step-by-step process we use=20u: to traffic thousands of visitors to our web sites every=20 single day.i   You will learn:   < * Three Different Methods We Use to Pick the Best Traffic=20= Producing Keywords for any web site...and how you can have=20 = a list of hundreds of popular keywords in only a few minutes.S  ? * How Quick and Easy it is to Create 'Doorway' and 'Hallway'=20n? pages for the search engines so that you could possibly have=20V= thousands of different pages on your domain all pulling in=20S4 visitors for your site 24 hours a day 7 days a week.  @ * The Secret Weapon that gives you an "Unfair Advantage" over=20> your competition...and virtually assures you will reach the=20@ top positions (don't let your competitors hear about this one=20! first or you will be in trouble).i  > * How to Submit Your Pages to the Search Engines and assure=20? that every single one of them gets listed. (if you listen to=20t= one of those amateurs tell you how to list your site,  you=20  may just get banned for life).  < * How to Use Pay-Per-Click search engines to receive over=20 10,000 visitors for only $1002  < * The Infamous Yahoo backdoor...You can get listed and we=20; will show you the quickest and easiest method for doing so!W   * And much, much more...  = Even Better, You'll Get the Same Results For A Fraction of=20w What Everyone Else Had to Pay!  : Listen: A lot of people all over the world are gonna be=20; furious with me for sharing these "Insider Secrets" with=20c? you...especially since you won't be paying even part of what=20 3 they had to shell out for one top positioning page!u  ; That's just too bad.  It's been a secret for too long.  So,y$ let me tell you what the deal is....  ; Contact us today using the below Risk-Free Response Form=20u5 and you can have all of our secrets for only $139.00.   : This price wouldn't even buy you 10 minutes of our time at; our regular submission fees, but you can own the top searche; engine positions for less than the cost of a few classifieda: ads!  You will be learning everything we know about top=20 positioning!  ; That, my friend, is the bargain of a lifetime for a serious = Internet marketer like yourself.  What=92s more, the money ist actually irrelevant, because...c  8 You Also Get a 90 Day No-Risk 100% Money-Back Guarantee!  6 Here's how it works.  Order your personal copy of this8 CD-ROM, and use it like you own it.  If...For any reason: or no reason at all, you aren't completely satisfied after7 90 days (by which I had over 47 Top 20 positions for myl: own web site), just send the CD-ROM back in any condition,7 and I personally guarantee you to get a complete refunde9 of your purchase price.  No questions asked.  No problems * or forms to fill out.  No problems at all.  7 PLUS, You Will Also Receive What is Considered to be byw% most experts as the "Ultimate Bonus!"o  7 For the first 50 people who fill out the below response-4 form and send it in, you will also receive UNLIMITED* REPRINT AND REPRODUCTION RIGHTS to this=20 CD-ROM for LIFE!  7 I am not going to allow this CD-ROM to become like many.4 of those over-advertised products you see out there,/ so only the first 50 will receive these rights.F  7 This means that you will be able to use this exact sameo3 sales letter, copy the CD-ROM yourself, and sell ite  > For $139.00 a copy, one sell will have breaking even.  Sell=207 two copies and you will be in profit.This isn't even=20S1 counting what the CD-ROM package will do for you!u  6 Since only 50 people are going to have these rights... you must take action today!a   Yours in Success,n Michael Burgess,    > To rush order this "Search Engine Magic CD-ROM" simply fill=20< out the order form below and fax it to our 24 hour  order=20 line at:   FAX ORDER LINE:" 1 (212) 504-8032   Regular Mail to: Financial Systemsd P.O. Box 301 Orange, Ma 01364     ORDER FORM    #MB-Good8 -------------------------------------------------------- Please send to:s    8 Your Name: _____________________________________________    8 Your Address: __________________________________________    8 Your City: _____________________________________________    8 State / Zip: ___________________________________________    8 Your Country: __________________________________________    8 Phone #: _______________________________________________; (For problems with your order only. No salesmen will call.)n    : Email Address: ___________________________________________    ? We Accept Checks or Money Orders along with all Major Credit=20 9 Cards including Visa, MasterCard, American Express and=203> Discover. (NOTE - We only ship to the address listed on the=20 credit card)    > (Please Fill Out Below Section and Make sure that the above=20= name and address are listed as it appears on the card) for=203 $144 ($139 + 5.00 Shipping)d    3 Credit Card Number:________________________________     + Expiration Date:___________________________t    # Signature:_________________________>     Date:____________________u    4 * Please check one of the following payment options:    ? [  ] I am faxing a check (Do not send original, we will make=20e"      a draft from the faxed check)  @ [  ] I am faxing or mailing my credit card number. (Note your=20=      card will be charged for $144.00 and we only ship to thee      address on the card)r  7 [  ] I am enclosing a check or money order for $144.00!h    8 Note - If ordering outside continental US, please add=20	 $5 to S&Ho    9 P.S. If you send in your order and you are not one of the 8 first 50 to receive the Reprint and Reproduction Rights,: I will notify you immediately and give you the opportunity to cancel your order.I      8 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/4 If you have received this message in error and would5 like to be removed from future mailings, please reply-& with the word remove in the subject. x8 _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 15:12:09 +02000" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>7 Subject: Re: Taking a MicroVax 3100-90 out of a clusterr( Message-ID: <8nm0p0$mfg$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  2 smiley0205@my-deja.com heeft geschreven in bericht  <8nhnq7$u43$1@nnrp1.deja.com>...	 >VMS'ers,  >eD >  I have a question.  We have a Mixed interconnect cluster with twoD >6610's and one MicroVax 3100-90.  All three are running 5.5-2.  TheF >3100 boots over the ethernet.  I want to take this machine out of theH >cluster permanently so what is the easiest way to copy the VMS stuff toH >a local disk?  I do have a disk that I can use and even initialize.  It  I The easiest way is probably the backup command. Store all you want on thes local disk in savesets. B If the local disk is big enough, you could consider a BACKUP/IMAGE SYS$SYSDEVICE: <local-disk>:H Next, remove the unused roots (the ones used by the 6610's) and possibly rename& SYS30 to SYS0 and boot from that disk.I Next, clean up your license databases (on the 6610 cluster and the 3190).aH Then check your MODPARAMS.DAT file. Even if you boot from a local system disk,dJ if the cluster database is still there and the SYSGEN parameter VAXCLUSTER
 is not set to : zero, the 3190 will still try and become a cluster member.  H >a local disk?  I do have a disk that I can use and even initialize.  ItG >currently boots from SYS30.  Would I use vmskitbld and use sys0 as ther= >source root and target root?  Any help would be appreciated!n  K VMSKITBLD is not necessary I think. It will not take care of your own stuffa that lives on thenG system disk and finding that all back will take as long as reinstallingo 5.5-2... >s >Spike >i > ' >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/a >Before you buy.  
 Hans Vlems   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 13:59:41 GMTo2 From: robert_jm_barron@hotmail.com (Robert Barron)$ Subject: Re: What quota was exceeded5 Message-ID: <399e9172.18773009@news.netvision.net.il>   # >  Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net> wrote:vC >> I'm trying to do a compile (Large VaxBasic program on a VAX3100)i% >> and am getting the unhelpful error  >>% >> 	%SYSTEM-F-EXQUOTA, exceeded quotaa >>F >> but I don't know which quota has been exceeded. I'vr tried boostingA >> up all the user quotas for this account, but haven't fixed the-
 >> error yet.- >>A >> How do I figure out which quota is getting exceeded so I don'te, >> have to keep randomally adjusting quotas? >>' Try checking the accounting information3* $ ACCOUNT /SIN=whatevertimeisrelevant/FULLC you'll get information about the process' end (same info you get ifu  you use a terminal mailbox IIRC)F I know you'll get the SYSTEM-F-EXQUOTA, and perhaps the various quotas at the moment of finishing.r  B you could also trying spawning the application in a CP and doing aC show/proc/quo when you leave the spawn... (this won't always work -s. some quotas might kill the parent process too)   Hope this helps, Robert   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 21:29:54 -0400e* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>1 Subject: Re: Why couldn't linux read a vms drive?e- Message-ID: <399DE312.CE0E7E04@tsoft-inc.com>i   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > "John E. Malmberg" wrote:g > [snip]O > > Let see, now known for LINUX, you can get at least one DCL emulator, DECNetoI > > Phase IV, ODS-2, and someone reported recently that LAT is available.a > I > I thought LAT was a licensed protocol with no public specification. hasl9 > someone finally been successful at reverse-engineering?g  N For quite some years now, there has been a DECnet product available for almostP any platform out there.  Can't remember the company name, but believe it startedE with 'K'.  They may also have had some kind of LAT support, not sure.r  O Emulex, and others, produced LAT terminal servers.  I think there was licensingt	 involved.w  N LAT and the BI bus were developed in about the same time frame I believe.  TheM BI is history, and part of the reason was DEC's (greedy) attitude.  It's longlO past the time when the LAT protocol should have been published and available tom	 everyone.f  I > ODS support outside of VMS, AFAIK, is still read-only. Has this changedi > yet?  M There's no technical reason why read and write support couldn't be provided.  % The structure is I believe published.   F > AFAIK, RMS support outside of VMS is still a commercial product. Has > THIS changed?u  M Now, putting this on other platforms would be an excellant idea.  It would do / much more good for VMS than any perceived harm.i   Dave   -- e4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Aug 2000 15:04:44 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)t1 Subject: Re: Why couldn't linux read a vms drive? ' Message-ID: <8nm7mc$ldv$1@joe.rice.edu>3  + David A Froble (davef@tsoft-inc.com) wrote:BJ : For quite some years now, there has been a DECnet product available for G : almost any platform out there.  Can't remember the company name, but iH : believe it started with 'K'.  They may also have had some kind of LAT  : support, not sure.   From:m  !   http://www.ki.com/products/dna/ '   Ki NETWORKS - DNA Product Description   H   "Ki NETWORKS' DIGITAL Network Access solution extends DEC networks by H    providing base DECnet connectivity functions such as file transfers, J    remote logins, LAT print and terminal services, and mail exchanges for &    open systems network environments.   K    DNA is the most robust and full-function connectivity product available  L    today for tying together DEC networks and their open systems counterpartsM    --principally, TCP/IP- based networks running under the Unix or NT operat-D    ing system."/  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 16:20:03 GMT ' From: kenn@avalon.research.wombat.ie ()s1 Subject: Re: Why couldn't linux read a vms drive?g; Message-ID: <slrn8pt44n.1pu.kenn@avalon.research.wombat.ie>t  6 On Fri, 18 Aug 2000 19:14:32 -0500, David J. Dachtera &   <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote: >"John E. Malmberg" wrote: >[snip] N >> Let see, now known for LINUX, you can get at least one DCL emulator, DECNetH >> Phase IV, ODS-2, and someone reported recently that LAT is available. > H >I thought LAT was a licensed protocol with no public specification. has8 >someone finally been successful at reverse-engineering?  : Yes.  Patrick Caulfield from the Linux-DECnet team did it.   Later, Kenn) http://sourceforge.net/projects/linux-vaxS   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 12:09:59 -0500 ) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net>a1 Subject: Re: Why couldn't linux read a vms drive?x/ Message-ID: <sptfnctn87v176@corp.supernews.com>D  1 <kenn#avalon.research.wombat.ie> wrote in messagen5 news:slrn8pt44n.1pu.kenn@avalon.research.wombat.ie...e7 > On Fri, 18 Aug 2000 19:14:32 -0500, David J. Dachterac( >   <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote: > >"John E. Malmberg" wrote:	 > >[snip] I > >> Let see, now known for LINUX, you can get at least one DCL emulator,  DECNetJ > >> Phase IV, ODS-2, and someone reported recently that LAT is available. > > J > >I thought LAT was a licensed protocol with no public specification. has: > >someone finally been successful at reverse-engineering? >h< > Yes.  Patrick Caulfield from the Linux-DECnet team did it.  K The issue is not that it could be done, is that anyone that does not have awE license from the patent holder to do so could be in legal difficulty.r  * Unless the patent in question has expired.   -John. wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.463 ************************uldn't find it.n  . So you waited a few days.....and still nothing  = You couldn't even find your site if you looked up your own=20s name!!!r  8 Then, you got discouraged....after all that hard work=20 NOTHING?!?!?  * And this is where most people give up..... BUT You Don't Have To...  = You can achieve top 20 positioning f