1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 27 Dec 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 723       Contents:, Re: ??== Allocating only one block per file., Re: ??== Allocating only one block per file./ ??== Examples of TCPIP socket FORTRAN programs. 3 Re: ??== Examples of TCPIP socket FORTRAN programs. / Re: Any tips and/or tricks for VMS with HSG80s?  Re: BASIC License Question Re: BASIC License Question2 Bug - NLB0: crash, was: "NLA0: the null device..."6 Re: Bug - NLB0: crash, was: "NLA0: the null device..."& Re: Enterprise Architect hard at work! Re: Giving up on VMS Re: Giving up on VMS Re: Giving up on VMS Re: Giving up on VMS Re: Giving up on VMS( Re: Happy Holidays - From Rich Marcelllo( Re: Happy Holidays - From Rich Marcelllo Re: HP 4050 TN Re: HP 4050 TN IRC Chat= Re: NLA0: the null device - can VMS have other default names? C Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist email list (was RE: OpenVMS Listserv Software) C Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist email list (was RE: OpenVMS Listserv Software)  Re: OpenVMS on Alpha XL?) Re: python telnet script for openvms host ) Re: python telnet script for openvms host = Re: Simply Marvelous (was Re: DS20 vs DS20E. Was: Sun Cluster = Re: Simply Marvelous (was Re: DS20 vs DS20E. Was: Sun Cluster   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 10:08:46 +0100 (CET) : From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>5 Subject: Re: ??== Allocating only one block per file. J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0012270955280.14210-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  ) On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Howard S Shubs wrote:   C +In article <3A327448.B48E4B1E@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera"  % +<djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote:  + F +>See PPF.BAS in that "kit". You can use this (BASIC) code as a model;@ +>however, you'll have to add in your own code to compare dates.@ +>DIR/SIN/BEF seemed easier (to me) than going through all that. + M +But it likely requires a LIB$SPAWN[ofHELL!!!!!!](), which I've decided is a  K +solution of Very Last Resort: it's *slow* and has worse quota issues than   +simply calling RMS.    Agree. A  *But* in some specific cases the effort of implementation may be   not worth the effect.   When: G - the code is run from time to time, not as the primary job of computer E - the execution part is already resource consuming (doing a DIRECTORY @  [or the quivalent] of hundreth thousand files can make the cost6  of SPAWN and additional image activation "nothing" !)?   The cost of 'other technique' (like: how much resources costs E  the use of X-windows ?? how much overhead [AFAIK 40 times] generates >  simple TELNET protocol ?) already used today IMHO sometime is(  greater than bad coding practice... -:)  2 +IMHO, calling system services directly is cooler:  ;  Och, yes ! - but requires from time to time more effort :]   =  Do not flame me as "windose like" fan: I agree with all your  point, but not in all cases !   = [...the "undocumented KERNEL" point of SPAWN - also agree...]     Regards - Gotfryd   --  E ===================================================================== F $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME . $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================    ------------------------------   Date: 27 Dec 2000 14:02:57 GMT& From: "Rick Cadruvi" <rick@rdperf.com>5 Subject: Re: ??== Allocating only one block per file. 0 Message-ID: <92csqh$9ok@dispatch.concentric.net>  K I am coming in late on this thread, so forgive me if my comments are out of C context (the rest of the thread is not visible to me at this time).   ? RMS can be called from BASIC directly.  I did it YEARS ago.  It L was a little tricky and I did it just as an exercise to demonstrate it couldF be done, but I was able to do basically anything you could do with RMS directly from BASIC.   Rick...     E "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl> wrote in message D news:Pine.LNX.4.21.0012270955280.14210-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl...+ > On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Howard S Shubs wrote:  > D > +In article <3A327448.B48E4B1E@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera"' > +<djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote:  > + H > +>See PPF.BAS in that "kit". You can use this (BASIC) code as a model;B > +>however, you'll have to add in your own code to compare dates.B > +>DIR/SIN/BEF seemed easier (to me) than going through all that. > + L > +But it likely requires a LIB$SPAWN[ofHELL!!!!!!](), which I've decided is a L > +solution of Very Last Resort: it's *slow* and has worse quota issues than > +simply calling RMS. > 	 >  Agree. C >  *But* in some specific cases the effort of implementation may be  >  not worth the effect.	 >   When: I > - the code is run from time to time, not as the primary job of computer G > - the execution part is already resource consuming (doing a DIRECTORY B >  [or the quivalent] of hundreth thousand files can make the cost8 >  of SPAWN and additional image activation "nothing" !)A >   The cost of 'other technique' (like: how much resources costs G >  the use of X-windows ?? how much overhead [AFAIK 40 times] generates @ >  simple TELNET protocol ?) already used today IMHO sometime is* >  greater than bad coding practice... -:) > 4 > +IMHO, calling system services directly is cooler: > = >  Och, yes ! - but requires from time to time more effort :]  > ? >  Do not flame me as "windose like" fan: I agree with all your  > point, but not in all cases !  > ? > [...the "undocumented KERNEL" point of SPAWN - also agree...]  >  >  Regards - Gotfryd >  > --G > ===================================================================== H > $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - > THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME 0 > $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plG > =====================================================================  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 11:14:13 +0100 , From: aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de (Hans M. Aus)8 Subject: ??== Examples of TCPIP socket FORTRAN programs.D Message-ID: <aus-2712001114130001@wvia78.virologie.uni-wuerzburg.de>  G Are there any PD examples available of programming TCPIP sockets either 1 directly in FORTRAN or using calls to C programs?     OpenVMS 7.2-1, Alpha, TCPIP 5.0a   --  B Cheers, Hans M. Aus, Wuerzburg, Germany,  aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 10:07:31 -0500 * From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>< Subject: Re: ??== Examples of TCPIP socket FORTRAN programs.+ Message-ID: <3A4A05B3.F96F161E@rtfmcsi.com>    "Hans M. Aus" wrote:  I > Are there any PD examples available of programming TCPIP sockets either 3 > directly in FORTRAN or using calls to C programs?  > " > OpenVMS 7.2-1, Alpha, TCPIP 5.0a >  > --D > Cheers, Hans M. Aus, Wuerzburg, Germany,  aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de  K I emailed you a .ZIP file containing sample FORTRAN code that uses the $QIO " interface to make TCP connections.     -- Chuck Chopp   8 ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com            http://www.rtfmcsi.com0                                   ICQ # 22321532@ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax4 Greer, SC  29651                  800 774 0718 pager7                                   8007740718@skytel.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 07:00:50 GMT % From: Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com> 8 Subject: Re: Any tips and/or tricks for VMS with HSG80s?) Message-ID: <92c432$nul$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   + In article <maPIHNsEbAYK@eisner.decus.org>, -   young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) wrote: B > In article <920hsr$tnt$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Uwe Zessin <zessin@my- deja.com> writes: / > > In article <PFBvXZrZlrsI@eisner.decus.org>, 1 > >   young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) wrote: : > >> In article <3A42BB40.4737CBB0@wi.rr.com>, Scott Vieth > > <svieth@wi.rr.com> writes:
 > >> > Hi:   [...] G > > Ahem. Switch zoning only helps when the servers talk to _different_ G > > storage systems, although it is useful to prevent HBAs from talking G > > to each other, too. As the HSG80's connection table (with ACS V8.5) G > > is only 64 entries big - zoning can/must also be used to reduce the  > > number of connections. > 9 > 	I went back to my notes and picked up on a few things. 7 > 	under a slide titled "Look Out!!!"  this note rests:  > 3 > 		Solaris and NT must be on seperate fabrics when  > 		using multipath.   I'd translate that to:4 "both host bus adapters must be in separate fabrics" or> "Secure Path Version 2 can only cope with 2 paths to a device"  B There is now Secure Path V3 (V3.1) for NT which can do more than 2E (8, if I recall correctly). Note that the licensing model has changed ? with V3. Every NT/W2000 server now needs a Secure Path license.   , http://www.compaq.com/products/storageworks//     Storage-Management-Software/SecurePath.html   ; >	SecurePath provides multipath functionality but to ensure > >  separate fabrics zoning will have to come into play, right?  3 No. I don't think so (or I'm misunderstanding you). > Zoning will not convert a physically meshed fabric into two or
 more fabrics.   B However, you can use/need zoning to limit the number of paths from- a host bus adapter to a storage subsystem to:   / - Limit the number of paths the OS can support. - - Limit the number of connections on the HSG. >   The internal table is automatically filled when the HSG sees   new HBAs.   E I have done Secure Path (V2) with dual Arbitrated Loop configurations B and in a DRM (ACS V8.4) environment (2 fabrics, of course) without/ zoning - it wasn't even supported at that time.   F Last time I checked DRM (with ACS V8.5P) was not supported in a fully- meshed fabric.  C > Also, split across two areas I wish to zone it such that VMS sees A > all HSG80s and NT would possibly replicate to another area, but  > that would come later.  * How do you define 'area'? Computer Center?  ! "NT would possibly replicate ..."    How?
 - via DRM?' - NT's so-called 'fault-tolerant sets'? A   In a cluster environment they are not supported/don't work on a 
   shared bus.   E > > On a storage system that is accessed by multiple systems which do H > > not form a single cluster you need to set up SSP - selective storage( > > presentation (a.k.a. 'LUN masking'). > ? > 	Yes I see that and recognize that.  I was unsure what zoning = > 	would truly be used for.  In the OS support Matrix, I have ? > 	a note scribbled that you can't do VMS and Solaris together. ? > 	The reason is that Solaris must have the HSG80 set to SCSI-2 9 > 	for SCSI_VERSION and it must be set to SCSI-3 for VMS.    Good point! 9 Operating system requirements can also be a show-stopper.   = > 	Anyone know when a Solaris platform kit will come about to ; > 	talk SCSI-3?  Sure would make things a whole lot easier.   = No idea, sorry. I was trying to get at a Solaris project, but 8 the bank suddenly decided that it wasn't that important.: They went with Windows NT + NTDS on their OpenVMS cluster.   > >>  Here is a bit about it:  > >>B > >> http://www.nwfusion.com/archive/1999/69463_07-05-1999.html?nf > >>8 > >>  The 2400 and 2800 switches support hardware zoning7 > >>  and IP addressing. Hardware zoning allows the SAN < > >>  fabric to be partitioned securely into several virtual< > >>               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^: > >>  private SANs to isolate different operating systems,9 > >>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  > >>  departments or policies. > >>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  > > @ > > It is sometimes also necessary when using one OS, as I wroteB > > above, to prevent the HBAs from talking to each other. In thatA > > case a storage subsystem can be in multiple zones at the same  > > time (zones can overlap).  > > ? > >>      "Zoning is an issue that is becoming important in the / > >                                    ======== < > >>      SAN environment. With hardware zoning, you have an: > >>      absolute lock on security. No one can change the? > >>      security unless they know how the switch works," says ? > >>      Farid Neema, president of Strategic Research in Santa  > >>      Barbara, Calif.  > > ? > > Well, the article is old, now. Zoning _is_ important today!  > > " > >                            --- > > > > > Oh, and for those of you who have no experience with this:B > > Zoning and SSP are _not_ mutual exclusive. They have different$ > > purposes and you will need both. > 4 > 	But I am not seeing that.  Here is what the notes% > 	say regarding Zoning Requirements.   2 Huh? Are you blind or am I halluscinating(sp?) ;-)   > 		Switch zoning - Required > . > 		SAN configuration where OS's not supported% > 		in single fabric [NT and Solaris]   ? Cut down the number of paths from the host to a (storage) unit.   5 > 		WNT using SecurePath 2.2 and all 4 ports of HSG80  > 		pair are connected.    Again, number of paths.   8 > 		SAN configuration where more than 64 connections can > 		be created on HSG80   > Using zoning to cut down the number of connections on the HSG.  7 > 		SAN configuration where the HBA can see more active , > 		controller ports than it has targets for  E Sounds like 'number of connections' from the HBA although that cannot + directly compared with the HSG's mechanism.   $ > 		Multiple Tru64 clusters in a SAN  ( Prevent HBAs from talking to each other.C You also need SSP here when those 2 or more clusters have access to  a single storage subsystem.   ' > 		WNT or W2K in a SAN with Tru64 5.0a   ( Prevent HBAs from talking to each other.F You also _NEED_ SSP here, or Tru64 _WILL_ make a permanent reservation to you NT disks at some time!   ? > 	So it would be simple to create scenarios where zoning isn't  > 	required.  # Yes, in a 'simple' environment. ;-)   @ > Also, several of these zone diagrams in front of me show zones( > overlapping (friendly OSes I suppose).  ? I don't see you diagrams, but I guess it usually is the storage ? subsystem that is in the overlapping area - or all members of a ( cluster with their storage subsystem(s).  ? > What I believe happened in the disaster scenario above is the @ > novice SAN manager had inadvertently relied on LUN masking and > disaster struck on NT reboot.   - Or no SSP and another OS 'touched' the disks.    --
 Uwe Zessin3 (If you want to send mail, please use user "zessin" / who lives at "decus.decus.de", not my-deja.com)      Sent via Deja.com  http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 10:45:47 GMT ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> # Subject: Re: BASIC License Question ; Message-ID: <vLj26.20098$f36.1101921@news20.bellglobal.com>   L >   To expand on the other poster's reply, the only time DEC/Compaq normallyH > used this option was when sending out software updates for a couple of years B > after VMS 5.0 (and LMF) came out. Since it took them a long time
 (sometimesH > forever) to ship actual licenses to customers, they issued SUP's which wereE > a license key to allow the update to be loaded. These had a product  release L > date limitation to make sure they wouldn't work for future updates, though8 > they would work "forever" for that particular update). > J >   Normally, you need to contact your designated customer support channelI > and ask for the correct license PAKs to be sent to you. The last time I  did L > this (many years ago) that was the CSC in Colorado. I have no idea if that9 > is still the case, or if it works for non-US customers.  > 6 >         Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com7 >         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USA   J The license in question has a release date in 1991 and originally ran on aG VAX-750 (that seems so long ago). In 1994 we purchased a second smaller G license and combined it with this one so we could run the compiler on a 	 VAX-4300.   I I guess I'm kind of surprised that the new complier (Compaq-BASIC for VAX L v3.9) is complaining about the license age while the previous one (VAX-BASICG v 3.8) did not when I reinstalled it. The license manager (OpenVMS 7.2) C doesn't seem to care about the date when I reinstalled the license.   F I hope that this is a bug in the compiler and not a change in software@ licensing policy at Compaq (you know how bean counters can get).  
 Neil Rieck Bell-ICS, Bell Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/o   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 13:35:44 GMT ( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com># Subject: Re: BASIC License Questionr' Message-ID: <G68B3K.KLn@spcuna.spc.edu>s  ) Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes: L > The license in question has a release date in 1991 and originally ran on aI > VAX-750 (that seems so long ago). In 1994 we purchased a second smallerVI > license and combined it with this one so we could run the compiler on ai > VAX-4300.S  H   Remember, when licenses are combined, the most restrictive limitationsK apply to the combined licenses. That (and other topics) were covered in the J LMF manual at the time (probably merged into the system managers manual by now).V  L   I reiterate that DEC did not normally issue licenses with either a productL release date or a key termination date. Obviously, there are exceptions likeK the SUPs that shipped with contract software updates (which is what I thinkeL you have) and the CSLG (annual licenses). But for purchased software, it was very, very unusual.   L   What are the first 3 characters of the authorization number on the PAK youI have? From memory, paid-for licenses were ALS, while "warranty" SUPs were M AWS. Another hint is the number of units - paid-for DEC licenses are normally A issued with non-zero "unit" values matching the processor rating.l  K > I guess I'm kind of surprised that the new complier (Compaq-BASIC for VAX.N > v3.9) is complaining about the license age while the previous one (VAX-BASICI > v 3.8) did not when I reinstalled it. The license manager (OpenVMS 7.2) E > doesn't seem to care about the date when I reinstalled the license..  L   LMF will let you load any PAK with a valid checksum, regardless of whetherK that PAK is useful - it might not load on the system (termination date, in-tL sufficient units) or it might load but not enable a product (product release date or version), etc.  H > I hope that this is a bug in the compiler and not a change in softwareB > licensing policy at Compaq (you know how bean counters can get).  L   It's not a bug and it's not a policy change. You got many years of serviceK out of a temporary PAK that was only intended to work for a year or two. IfnJ you purchased a real license for the product and have the "DEC [reference]K number" handy, you can get Compaq to issue you a duplicate PAK if you can'tiJ locate the right PAK at your site. Many sites received their real PAKs andJ didn't install them because the software was already working properly withK the SUP. By the time an update gets installed, the PAKs are often misplaced / and nobody knows why there's a license problem.   L   You may also want to do a "show license" to see if you have any other PAKsA loaded which have release date, version, or termination date set.a  >   The current contact info for license issues can be found at:? http://www5.compaq.com/products/software/info/swl_contacts.html"  4         Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USAS   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 09:39:08 +0100 (CET)=: From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>; Subject: Bug - NLB0: crash, was: "NLA0: the null device..."jJ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0012270918450.14210-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  7  Something looks as a bug... regardless of the reason !e  + On Fri, 22 Dec 2000, Michael Moroney wrote:o  + +Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> writes:  +aJ +>  2) Nothing would prevent someone from doing a SYSGEN CONNECT / etc. to? +>     make a new device called NLB0:, NLQ1234:, or even FOO99:e) [...and like this also Howard S Shubs...]   G FYI: if anyone will ask me before today I probably say exactly the samek@  words as Terry and Howard; BUT - regards to the Michael answer:  ? +I _vaguely_ remember playing around on a vax and configuring asG +NLB0: device.  If I remember correctly the system crashed when I tried # +accessing it.  This was years ago.n  ? ...have today start a little check (full privileged, non system 
 username):    $ mc sysman io conn nla1:/noadap. %SYSMAN-I-NODERR, error returned from node BUK' -SYSTEM-F-IVDEVNAM, invalid device namer $! Erm... hm... must be sure:d
 $ sh log nla1 4 %SHOW-S-NOTRAN, no translation for logical name NLA1
 $ sh dev nl  P  . Device                  Device           Error.  Name                   Status           Count. NLA0:                   Online               0$ $! Check with explicite driver name:0 $ mc sysman io conn nla1:/noadap/driver=NLDRIVER. %SYSMAN-I-NODERR, error returned from node BUK' -SYSTEM-F-IVDEVNAM, invalid device name * $! Then check with change in adapter name:  $ mc sysman io conn nlb0:/noadap   .... and the machine crashes !B BUGCHECK code 3C4, [...] unexpected system service exception [...]  9  Then get second system, the same check, the same result: 9 both Alpha VMS, differrent version: 7.2-1 and 7.1-2, someu patches applied.  ;  Regards to one of my post in the "NLA0:" thread will agreeT; that NL (and MB) driver are loaded in special way - but IMOt; it is expected to get a NLB0: (even unoperational !) devicee) *or* system service reject, not a crash !     Regards - Gotfryd   --  E =====================================================================gF $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEf. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE ======================================================================   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 08:20:21 -0500R, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>? Subject: Re: Bug - NLB0: crash, was: "NLA0: the null device..."=> Message-ID: <hshubs-10165C.08202127122000@news.mindspring.com>  K In article <Pine.LNX.4.21.0012270918450.14210-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>, i; "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl> wrote:C   >.... and the machine crashes !gC >BUGCHECK code 3C4, [...] unexpected system service exception [...]    Ow.  Maybe I -won't- try this. -- r Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 09:34:37 +0100m= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>-/ Subject: Re: Enterprise Architect hard at work! ) Message-ID: <3A49A99D.FCD83792@gtech.com>c   andrew harrison wrote:? > Nice to see that you are still posting FUD, your track recordc= > would suggest that this isn't a wise course of action as it = > would for your posting any predictions on any Alpha/OpenVMSO
 > futures.  G Since this is not the subject of this thread, then that is irrelevant !   > > Released any new Marvel predictions recently. I particularly> > liked the unconcious irony of your sounding off about people? > predicting the performance of Itanium based systems, a masterh? > stroke in denial on your part. Do I need to remind you of alli@ > the performance estimates you have made for Alpha's which have. > not been acheived. 200,000+ TPM ring a bell.  B A few months ago where you posted similar accusations, I asked youD to document it. But apperently you did not "have the time" to do so.  " > But back to the subject in hand. > ; > Don't you have anything more than unsubstantiated rumour.    ????  H Articles in leading computing and business magazines is not what I would call unsubstantiated rumours !  F The stories have been in many of those. The stories sound similar withH what we have been hearing in news-groups/mail-lists for many months. TheE SUN excuses quotes sound similar top what you have been posting here.a  F One can not trust everythinf one reads, but this sounds very credible.  > And when then there are not official denial from SUN, then ...   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 09:25:48 +0100h= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>t Subject: Re: Giving up on VMSs) Message-ID: <3A49A78C.16253D0C@gtech.com>e   JF Mezei wrote:tO > I have a spare Microvax II. What are my options to put some free Unix on it ? = > How recent would that Unix be ?  Can it support X-windows ?.  F VAX means Ultrix, which is very very old. I do not know if it supports+ DECWindows, but it will be dog slow anyway.s  G You can probably get an old PC f.ex. a 100 MHz 486 DX4 just for pickingt it up.E And it will run Linux much faster than a MicroVAX II will run Ultrix.a  D (no surprise - when the MicroVAX II was new, then a 16 MHz 386 was a
 fast PC !)  H > Also, does anyone have some good pointers on learning "unix" x-windowsI > programming (eg: not using any VMS specific functions to make a program/ > portable to Unix) ?a  @ If you use the "MIT C binding", which I assume everyone has beenB using for the last many years, then I would not assume there to be6 much difference between X programming on VMS and Unix.   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 09:14:47 GMT(% From: Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com>w Subject: Re: Giving up on VMSs) Message-ID: <92cbu5$ts0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>o  ' In article <3A4879CE.68918C8E@GCE.com>, /   "Glenn C. Everhart" <Everhart@GCE.com> wrote:r? > NT is more closely related to VMS (internals having come fromo! > as I have heard a followon) ...i  . So what? Who really does internals these days?  @ I used to be a VMS system manager for several years. I also have< messed with NT for about 4 years now, but it is a completely: different OS to me. I haven't seen much from the internals- except for a handful of BSODs over this time.   < I believe this 'relation' is only used for marketing. Almost; NOBODY can make use of it - certainly not a system manager.w   --
 Uwe Zessin3 (If you want to send mail, please use user "zessin"r/ who lives at "decus.decus.de", not my-deja.com)      Sent via Deja.comf http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 16:02:28 +0100-= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>  Subject: Re: Giving up on VMS ) Message-ID: <3A4A0484.B04D9C95@gtech.com>e   Uwe Zessin wrote: ) > In article <3A4879CE.68918C8E@GCE.com>,s1 >   "Glenn C. Everhart" <Everhart@GCE.com> wrote:oA > > NT is more closely related to VMS (internals having come froma# > > as I have heard a followon) ...h > 0 > So what? Who really does internals these days? > B > I used to be a VMS system manager for several years. I also have> > messed with NT for about 4 years now, but it is a completely< > different OS to me. I haven't seen much from the internals/ > except for a handful of BSODs over this time.r > > > I believe this 'relation' is only used for marketing. Almost= > NOBODY can make use of it - certainly not a system manager.o  ) NT and VMS has no similarities for users.e  B NT and VMS has no similarities for system managers/administrators.  ; NT and VMS has no similarities for application programmers.n  G NT and VMS has some similarties for programmers writing device-drivers.   1 And that is a relative limited number of people !_   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 13:30:17 -0500 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>a Subject: Re: Giving up on VMS ( Message-ID: <92dca5$7or$1@pyrite.mv.net>  5 Arne Vajhj <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in message^# news:3A4A0484.B04D9C95@gtech.com...    ...n  = > NT and VMS has no similarities for application programmers.^  G Incorrect.  NT has significantly more 'cultural compatibility' with VMS^L than, say, a Unix does - e.g., things like event flags and asynchronous fileL I/O (the list is a lot longer, but I'm kind of busy today).  As a result, NTL has been relatively easy for me to approach when I've had to write user-mode/ code for it (kernel code too, for that matter).t   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 21:20:11 -0500>, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Giving up on VMSl> Message-ID: <hshubs-A5AE80.21201126122000@news.mindspring.com>  = In article <3A48BA34.AA30A534@mmaz.com>, "Barry Treahy, Jr." p <treahy@mmaz.com> wrote:  N >VMS has never been a hopeless case, even when I could crash it with EDT, but   , How 'bout when you could crash it with STOP? --   Howard S ShubsD "Run in circles, scream and shout!"  "I hope you have good backups!"   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 13:38:48 +0000 (UTC)p' From: Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.jyu.fi>I1 Subject: Re: Happy Holidays - From Rich Marcellloy, Message-ID: <92crd8$a59$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>  9 John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk> wrote: F > The "Happy Holidays" (Ugh!) message was aimed at people with desktop3 > systems. VMS is not marketed as a desktop system.   M > Even if the message had somehow been adapted to run through a "VMS browser"aN > I wonder how many of us have VMS hardware configured to reproduce the audio.K > I suspect the percentage would be low. On the other hand the number of us8= > with PCs available, and used, on our desktops must be high.   * > The message reaches its target audience.  I Exactly. It seems to be a message from a fool to stupids.  :-)        /OKk   ------------------------------    Date: 27 Dec 2000 10:16:17 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)1 Subject: Re: Happy Holidays - From Rich Marcellloo+ Message-ID: <YfPUyx8IIt2I@eisner.decus.org>e  V In article <92crd8$a59$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>, Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.jyu.fi> writes:; > John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk> wrote: G >> The "Happy Holidays" (Ugh!) message was aimed at people with desktopt4 >> systems. VMS is not marketed as a desktop system. > N >> Even if the message had somehow been adapted to run through a "VMS browser"O >> I wonder how many of us have VMS hardware configured to reproduce the audio.fL >> I suspect the percentage would be low. On the other hand the number of us> >> with PCs available, and used, on our desktops must be high. > + >> The message reaches its target audience.  > K > Exactly. It seems to be a message from a fool to stupids.  :-)        /OKs  = 	No no no... and this whole thing is rather silly.  I know ITy9 	directors and CIOs that have never logged into their VMS > 	platforms they own, nor their AIX boxes, Sun boxes, NT boxes,; 	etc.  They read their email and do other PC related stuff.h? 	By counter-example, how many CIOs do you know that have active.< 	VMS accounts?  I'm asking because I don't believe there are; 	many at all.  Hence, the Windows flash message would reach. 	the target audience.u   				RobB   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 15:40:17 GMTl/ From: "Tom Simpson" <simpsont@xxx.mediaone.net>  Subject: Re: HP 4050 TNCF Message-ID: <BZ226.16497$pc5.153293@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>  B I haven't tried it myself, but you should be able to define a formH that contains the PCL command to select tray 3 and insert it in the formJ library.  We have several HP4050 printers too, but no one has asked to use
 tray 3 yet...    Regards, Tomc8 "Sandrine Treheux" <satr@memo.ikea.com> wrote in message& news:92a6he$em5$1@mailgate.ikea.com... > Hej, > H >     Is there any possibility to setup HP 4050 TN printer on VMS to use tray > 3 ?g' >     We are running VMS 7.2, UCX V5.0A  > 
 > Br/Sandrinee >  >s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 11:06:29 +0200s% From: Gabriel Sterk <gabi@aipm.co.il>  Subject: Re: HP 4050 TN,2 Message-ID: <000601c06fe4$4d3ace20$2c46bf10@manai>  F We use forms that select paper from one of the 3 sources on an HP 4 or HP4xxx printerI for years now, so it is possible. You could also insert the sequence intoi
 your text.D The third possibility is to use 'PRINT/SETUP=select_sequence_module' command.   Regards,
 Gabriel Sterkh   -----Original Message-----2 From: Sandrine Treheux [mailto:satr@memo.ikea.com]( Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2000 3:26 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi Subject: HP 4050 TNe     Hej,  K     Is there any possibility to setup HP 4050 TN printer on VMS to use tray  3 ?e%     We are running VMS 7.2, UCX V5.0Aa   Br/Sandrineh   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 16:25:05 -0700 + From: "Chris Morrill" <cmorrill@micron.net>y Subject: IRC Chatw0 Message-ID: <92b9ci$it7$1@admin-srv3.micron.com>  8 Does anyone know of a IRC Server that will run on a VAX?  L ----------------------------------------------------------------------------% -------------------------------------RA Q: How many C++ Programmers does it take to screw in a lightbulb?s  C A: Your still thinking procedurally.  A properly designed lightbulboG    object would inherit a change method from a generic lightbulb class,m<    so all you have to do is send a lightbulb change message.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 09:17:38 +0100 (CET)S: From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>F Subject: Re: NLA0: the null device - can VMS have other default names?J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0012270915200.14210-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  * On Fri, 22 Dec 2000, Howard S Shubs wrote:  C +In article <3A42E44C.D4982FB7@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" s [...]o> +>In most cases, "NL:" is taken as being identical to "NLA0:". [...]sF +>naming conventions. In short, when you specify only the device classD +>name (such as "NL:", "TX:", etc.) the system will select the first0 +>matching device spec ("NLA0:", "TXA0:", etc.). +cO +Er, maybe.  I've used NL: and TT:, where NL: refers to -the- null device, and  % +TT: is the current terminal, if any.s  8  To be precise: the mentioned behaviours are differrent:, NL:  - goet thru the "match first name" path= TT:  - is a 'predefined' executive logical name, exception in'   the SYS$ convention...    Regards - Gotfryd   --  E =====================================================================uF $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEo. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================k   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Dec 2000 18:29:54 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)L Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist email list (was RE: OpenVMS Listserv Software)6 Message-ID: <92dcf2$k64$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  E In two articles, skidmore@alternate-venue.org (Barry Skidmore) wrote:b  @ :Is anyone aware of listserver software that runs under OpenVMS?  )   MajorDomo is listed in the OpenVMS FAQ.t  D :The primary reason I posted this message is that I was wondering ifE :there would be sufficient interest in starting a mailing list geared / :toward OpenVMS Hobbyists, as I am one myself..d  D   Please check with the folks at DFWCUG (www.dfwcug.org; folks that C   were instrumental in the creation of the hobbyist program), as I a2   would assume they would be interested in this...  D   Please also consider the potential for fragmentation of the targetF   audience versus the perceived benefits of targeting the discussions.E   (I regularly see various questions duplicated across various fora.)e  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 16:59:56 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br,L Subject: Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist email list (was RE: OpenVMS Listserv Software)L Message-ID: <OF872E1923.82929132-ON032569C2.006DB8B6@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  H I really wanted to acquire my Hobbyst License in .BR but nobody at DECU= S.BR contacts me...:((2  6 I think I=B4ll  be member o DECUS US, CA, UK .... :(((   Regardsl   FC        C hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) em 27/12/2000 16:29:54e  / Favor responder a hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospamg             Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com       B Assunto: Re: OpenVMS Hobbyist email list (was RE: OpenVMS Listserv          Software)      E In two articles, skidmore@alternate-venue.org (Barry Skidmore) wrote:   @ :Is anyone aware of listserver software that runs under OpenVMS?  )   MajorDomo is listed in the OpenVMS FAQ.a  D :The primary reason I posted this message is that I was wondering ifE :there would be sufficient interest in starting a mailing list gearedg/ :toward OpenVMS Hobbyists, as I am one myself..   C   Please check with the folks at DFWCUG (www.dfwcug.org; folks that B   were instrumental in the creation of the hobbyist program), as I2   would assume they would be interested in this...  D   Please also consider the potential for fragmentation of the targetF   audience versus the perceived benefits of targeting the discussions.E   (I regularly see various questions duplicated across various fora.)   2  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------s/    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS EngineeringA hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com           =    ------------------------------   Date: 27 Dec 2000 18:39:50 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)! Subject: Re: OpenVMS on Alpha XL?U6 Message-ID: <92dd1m$k64$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  e In article <t4d3e2ggr7p6f0@corp.supernews.com>, "Walker Bennett" <Wabennett@gw.total-web.net> writes:nJ :Does anyone know if OpenVMS (any version) will install on an Alpha XL 366 :(21164 chip)? :wB :I just inherited one which is loaded with NT, but I'd rather VMS.  I   Please see the OpenVMS FAQ.  Specifically, see section "ALPHA15.  Will eD   OpenVMS run on the Alpha XL series?".  Short answer: no, it won't.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 16:56:06 GMT=) From: Ennis Rosamond <ennisr@my-deja.com>=2 Subject: Re: python telnet script for openvms host) Message-ID: <92d6v3$gl9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>S  B The script is now working.  Thanks to everyone who responded to myH request for help.  As several people pointed out, the problem was in theF telnet protocol negotiation.  Since I knew virtually nothing about theG nitty gritty of telnet communication, I quickly read a short article onm' telnet protocol that I found on the websF (http://www.scit.wlv.ac.uk/~jphb/comms/telnet.htm).  That gave me justE enough information get the script working, though not very elegantly.i  F Looking at the actual client/host dialog with the aid of the telnetlibG debug option, it appeared that perhaps the host was proposing 'suppress=F go ahead', but that acceptance of the option was not being returned byH the client.  (The actual host message was '\377\373\003'.  I haven't yet/ found the interpretation of either 377 or 373.)a  D To fix the script, I added a write call to the host with the messageC '\255\253\003', meaning 'do suppress go ahead', following the logintD dialog but before scanning for the '$ ' prompt.  I doubt that this a? good general fix-- seems to work here but probably not in otherw+ situations.  The new script is shown below.    #python test script: import sys, telnetlibf host = 'hostname'r user = 'username\r'n password = 'mypasswd\r'm tn = telnetlib.Telnet(host)i tn.read_until('Username: ')  tn.write(user) tn.read_until('Password: ')e tn.write(password)D tn.read_until('[c')             #last char of session header message@ tn.write('\255\253\003')        #this is the 'fix' command added0 tn.read_until('$ ')             #scan for prompt8 tn.write('dir\r')               #issue directory command2 d = tn.read_until('$ ')         #save results in d
 tn.close() print d?  H The underlying problem is obviously the lack of option negotiation logicE in the telnetlib module.  (It is on the 'To do' list in the telnetliboB source code.)  Someone with telnet protocol expertise would do the@ Python community a valuable service by adding some sophisticated negotiation code to the module.o  6 (Posted to both Python and OpenVMS discussion groups.)     Sent via Deja.comi http://www.deja.com/   ------------------------------   Date: 27 Dec 2000 17:16:44 GMT0 From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz)2 Subject: Re: python telnet script for openvms host5 Message-ID: <92d85s$o0h$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>M  ) In article <92d6v3$gl9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,e+ Ennis Rosamond  <ennisr@my-deja.com> wrote:aD : The script is now working.  Thanks to everyone who responded to myJ : request for help.  As several people pointed out, the problem was in theH : telnet protocol negotiation.  Since I knew virtually nothing about theI : nitty gritty of telnet communication, I quickly read a short article onD) : telnet protocol that I found on the webuH : (http://www.scit.wlv.ac.uk/~jphb/comms/telnet.htm).  That gave me justG : enough information get the script working, though not very elegantly.l : H : Looking at the actual client/host dialog with the aid of the telnetlibI : debug option, it appeared that perhaps the host was proposing 'suppressbH : go ahead', but that acceptance of the option was not being returned byJ : the client.  (The actual host message was '\377\373\003'.  I haven't yet1 : found the interpretation of either 377 or 373.)U : F : To fix the script, I added a write call to the host with the messageE : '\255\253\003', meaning 'do suppress go ahead', following the login F : dialog but before scanning for the '$ ' prompt.  I doubt that this aA : good general fix-- seems to work here but probably not in other>- : situations.  The new script is shown below.i :  : ...v : J : The underlying problem is obviously the lack of option negotiation logicG : in the telnetlib module.  (It is on the 'To do' list in the telnetlibrD : source code.)  Someone with telnet protocol expertise would do theB : Python community a valuable service by adding some sophisticated! : negotiation code to the module.t : F Another approach would have been to use C-Kermit rather than Python asF your script engine.  C-Kermit does all the Telnet negotiations for youI transparently (but of course you can control the policies at a high level"@ without having to know the details of negotiation formats, etc).  H   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/                 Kermit Project website:   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.html     C-KermitI   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckscripts.html   C-Kermit script library0   - Frankh   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Dec 2000 15:51:34 GMT& From: peter@abbnm.com (Peter da Silva)F Subject: Re: Simply Marvelous (was Re: DS20 vs DS20E. Was: Sun Cluster% Message-ID: <92aeq6$j92@web.nmti.com>l  . In article <920lgf$63t$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>,3 John D. Peedle <john@peedle.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:eH > And add a whole range of flashing lights - that *really* impresses the > technically challenged  ? Blue LEDs. Everyone knows blue LEDs make the system run faster.t   -- h+  `-_-'   In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.iE   'U`    "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."kL                                                        -- nicolai@esperi.org          Disclaimer: WWFD?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 19:06:47 -0800n, From: Jack Patteeuw <jjpatteeuw@voyager.net>F Subject: Re: Simply Marvelous (was Re: DS20 vs DS20E. Was: Sun Cluster8 Message-ID: <3a493221$0$30009$2c3edae7@news.voyager.net>   Peter da Silva wrote:- > 0 > In article <920lgf$63t$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>,5 > John D. Peedle <john@peedle.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:RJ > > And add a whole range of flashing lights - that *really* impresses the > > technically challenged > A > Blue LEDs. Everyone knows blue LEDs make the system run faster.a  P I work for an auto company.  About 18 years ago I sat across from some folks whoO were designing the first all "electronic" temperature control system. There wastL endless debates with the VPs about how many buttons, switch, knobs, size andM color of lights/LEDs.  One day after a classic meeting, ("No, no, 1 switch, 3oE buttons labeled ...") one of the engineer came back to his desk quiteoH discussed.  When I ask what was wrong he said, "Now they want a blue LEDO (remember, this was 18 years ago).  When I told them there was no such thing asu? a blue LED he told me to put a blue lens over a green LED !!!")1  5 Good thing they didn't ask for a white LED back then.3  
 Jack Patteeuwr   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.723 ************************