1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 05 Jul 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 372       Contents: RE: ACMS & RFC1006? + BACKUP under VMS 7.2-1 and ODS5 file system / Re: BACKUP under VMS 7.2-1 and ODS5 file system / Re: BACKUP under VMS 7.2-1 and ODS5 file system & Re: Compaq paying for software ports ?& Re: Compaq paying for software ports ?& Re: Compaq paying for software ports ?7 Re: Disk I/O Performance (was Re: OpenVMS loses big...) 8 Re: How can I "replicate" Volume Shadowing on a Sun box?! RMS indexed file instatly growing % Re: RMS indexed file instatly growing % Re: RMS indexed file instatly growing % Re: RMS indexed file instatly growing - Selling software to corporation AND hobbyists 1 Re: Selling software to corporation AND hobbyists - Selling software to corporation AND hobbyists 1 Re: Selling software to corporation AND hobbyists 1 Re: Selling software to corporation AND hobbyists 1 Re: Selling software to corporation AND hobbyists 2 Re: slightly off-topic/InfoServer function pricing Traceback info from AST ?  Re: Traceback info from AST ? & Re: XML Parser for OpenVMS Available ?& Re: XML Parser for OpenVMS Available ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 15:13:25 -0400 0 From: arturo saavedra <arturo.saavedra@wcom.com> Subject: RE: ACMS & RFC1006?C Message-ID: <NDBBJFNBJJHKADILJHIJMEIDEJAA.arturo.saavedra@wcom.com>   H How about removing the DECnet address from all NCP/NCL databases for theH remote node you are trying to connect to?  This way it will fail over to- the RFC1006 implementation of DECnet over IP.        -----Original Message-----1 From: Ferry Bolhar [mailto:bol@adv.magwien.gv.at] % Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2000 11:04 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: Re: ACMS & RFC1006?    5 Thanks for the responses I got conerning my question.    " > You can assign alias for IP host >  > Examples for UCX >  > $ UCX * > UCX> set host long_name_host  /alias=lnh2 > UCX> set host namehost.company.com /alias=namhst  > Unfortunately, this does not work. In order to force to createF connections via RFC1006, you _must_ specify a full-qualified host nameH (including domain part) or must specify the special name space "domain:"H in front of the node name (eg, "domain:.vax003" for node VAX003). If youF supply the 6-char name only, the connection is established over nativeD DECnet. However, the above host names are too long and therefore are rejected by ACMS.   G I need an ACMS version actually supporting longer node names. Again, is 
 there one?    Thanks and kind greetings, Ferry   --   Ing. Ferry Bolhar-Nordenkampf  Municipality of Vienna Municipality Department 14
 A-1010 Vienna  E-mail: bol@adv.magwien.gv.at   : "Wenn hier einer schuld ist, dann immer nur der Computer."   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 09:37:39 +1200, From: "Bernie Milo" <milosavljevi@usp.ac.fj>4 Subject: BACKUP under VMS 7.2-1 and ODS5 file system Message-ID: <QNndL5foE3Lt@belo>    Hi, P I have just found out that our VMS 7.2-1 system is not doing incremental backupsJ on my ODS5 file system files. Basically, it is ignoring the /since=backup.  9 Is this a know problem and if so, how do I get around it?    Bernie.    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 2000 10:43:34 GMT K From: kruinigerj@compaq.com (John Kruiniger, Systems Manager, COMPAQ, Chch) 8 Subject: Re: BACKUP under VMS 7.2-1 and ODS5 file system! Message-ID: <CSKuq4c9zoHM@ccad14>   K You mean it is simply copying every file on the disk?  If so,  do an image  N backup of the whole disk with the /record option,  and then try again.  If you3 don't need to keep the image backup,  then you can:   + $ BACKUP/IMAGE/RECORD <disk>: NL:T.SVS/SAVE   2 and then your next incremental backup should work.   JK.   N In article <QNndL5foE3Lt@belo>, "Bernie Milo" <milosavljevi@usp.ac.fj> writes: > Hi, R > I have just found out that our VMS 7.2-1 system is not doing incremental backupsL > on my ODS5 file system files. Basically, it is ignoring the /since=backup. > ; > Is this a know problem and if so, how do I get around it?  > 	 > Bernie.  >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 5 Jul 2000 00:27:07 GMT 1 From: JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones) 8 Subject: Re: BACKUP under VMS 7.2-1 and ODS5 file system: Message-ID: <8jtvcr$ir6$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>   In message <QNndL5foE3Lt@belo>, /  "Bernie Milo" <milosavljevi@usp.ac.fj> writes: Q >I have just found out that our VMS 7.2-1 system is not doing incremental backups K >on my ODS5 file system files. Basically, it is ignoring the /since=backup.   J I encountered a problem where backup was aborting with a RMS-F-SYN when itL went to the backup data recording phase.  If the backup date isn't recorded,D then /since=backup treats the file as not having been backed up.  AnL analyze/disk/repair (which write-locked the volume for 13 minutes) seemed to make the problem go away.   + I have an open call to CSC about the issue.       < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929- Ohio State University        |      Internet: L 140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  + Disclaimer: Dogs can't tell it's not bacon.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 21:29:00 -0400 2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>/ Subject: Re: Compaq paying for software ports ? 7 Message-ID: <200007042129_MC2-AB15-570E@compuserve.com>   F         I've seen and tried to use Wordperfect for VMS.  Last time wasJ about 1995.  The product was equivalent to Wordperfect V5.x for MSDOS!!!!= ! =   J  Nothing at all like then current WP for Windows.  Yes, WP 5 could produc= e J pretty much any document that WP/Win can produce today but who would want=  J to?   You had to memorize about forty combinations of function key, Ctrl,=  J Alt, and Shift.   Trying to change the font or pointsize of a piece of te= xtJ could be done but it was a nightmare such that it was frequently easier t= o 2 retype the text in the correct font and pointsize.  F         The Windows interface for such things as spreadsheets and wordH processors can't be beaten in a character cell environment!  It's a pity, that the underlying O/S doesn't work better.  C         I've never seen MASS 11 for VMS but did see it for MSDOS. =   G Unfortunately, it had a fatal incompatability with another product that J needed to run on the same PC.   Install one and you broke the other.  MAS= S  11 lost that battle.  D Message text written by INTERNET:yyyc186.illegaltospam_@flashcom.netJ >I don't have URL's handy, but WordPerfect had their Perfect Office stuff=  D on VMS over a decade ago.  Mass11 was in existence close to a decadeH before that.  (Believe it was the port of the RSTS/E product Word11, but7 those brain cells could have died in the wrong order.)<    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 23:13:59 GMT L From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")/ Subject: Re: Compaq paying for software ports ? 8 Message-ID: <009EC95B.5364261D@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  e In article <3961e9fd$1$lllp186$mr2ice@news.flashcom.com>, yyyc186.illegaltospam_@flashcom.net writes: 3 >In <3961607A.574889D1@earthlink.net>, on 07/04/00  H >   at 09:40 AM, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> said: > , >>yyyc186.illegaltospam_@flashcom.net wrote: >>[snip]N >>> >They don't grow on trees and people don't just go off an knock off say an< >>> >Office suite in Fortran or Pascal at the drop of a hat. >>> G >>> Why would we need yet another one of those on VMS?  There have been % >>> several in existence for decades.  > @ >>Really? Would you care to elucidate? By chance have you a URL? > I >I don't have URL's handy, but WordPerfect had their Perfect Office stuff E >on VMS over a decade ago.  Mass11 was in existence close to a decade I >before that.  (Believe it was the port of the RSTS/E product Word11, but 7 >those brain cells could have died in the wrong order.)   K Word-11 was (actually is still) from Data Processing Design (now DPD, Inc); L MASS-11 was a completely different product from a different vendor.  My siteK started with Word-11 on RSX, kept with it on VAX, and still has a few users J for it on Alpha under VMS 7.2-1.  If anybody were still interested in WangL style word-processing with fairly good subscript/superscript/greek character/ support, this would be a good product for them.   L The DPD people had a GOLD-OFFICE package that involved Word-11 and Gold-FAX,3 and some other package I disremember at the moment.   : There used to be Saturn Calc and Lotus 1-2-3 for VMS, too.  H So yes, there were office suites on VMS, but they weren't point-and-dragK drop-down-menu click-on-the-bunny GUI office suites, which is what people - H even pretty savvy ones - under 40 tend to think of as office suites now.     -- Alan   O =============================================================================== 0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 M  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210 O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 23:07:17 -0400 ) From: yyyc186.illegaltospam_@flashcom.net / Subject: Re: Compaq paying for software ports ? 9 Message-ID: <3962a81d$1$lllp186$mr2ice@news.flashcom.com>   < In <200007042129_MC2-AB15-570E@compuserve.com>, on 07/04/00 B    at 11:07 PM, "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com> said:  G >        I've seen and tried to use Wordperfect for VMS.  Last time was @ >about 1995.  The product was equivalent to Wordperfect V5.x for >MSDOS!!!!! C > Nothing at all like then current WP for Windows.  Yes, WP 5 could G >produce pretty much any document that WP/Win can produce today but who J >would want to?   You had to memorize about forty combinations of functionI >key, Ctrl, Alt, and Shift.   Trying to change the font or pointsize of a D >piece of text could be done but it was a nightmare such that it wasH >frequently easier to retype the text in the correct font and pointsize.  I Interesting position.  At the time I used it myself and tens of thousands G of others were still using the DOS version of WP so we memorized mostly G nothing.  I never had any trouble changing the document markups either, H and this was using VT 220 originally.  (The company finally splurged andE got 320's about 6 months later.)  Personally I don't care for windows I versions of word processors when authoring books.  I guess I'm not alone, * TEXX has been ported to lots of platforms.  G >        The Windows interface for such things as spreadsheets and word I >processors can't be beaten in a character cell environment!  It's a pity - >that the underlying O/S doesn't work better.   I Hmmmm.....Cell oriented spread sheets can't be beaten in a character cell J environment....Perhaps you remember Lotus 123 under DOS?  I haven't lookedJ at 20/20 in a while, don't know if it is still around.  Spreadsheets are aI recipe for disaster.  Once people start using the macros as a programming ! language whole corporations fold.   C >        I've never seen MASS 11 for VMS but did see it for MSDOS.  H >Unfortunately, it had a fatal incompatability with another product thatF >needed to run on the same PC.   Install one and you broke the other.  >MASS 11 lost that battle.  H >Message text written by INTERNET:yyyc186.illegaltospam_@flashcom.net >IJ >don't have URL's handy, but WordPerfect had their Perfect Office stuff onI >VMS over a decade ago.  Mass11 was in existence close to a decade before H >that.  (Believe it was the port of the RSTS/E product Word11, but those2 >brain cells could have died in the wrong order.)<     --  ; ----------------------------------------------------------- D yyyc186@flashcom.net              To Respond delete ".illegaltospam"6                             MR/2 Internet Cruiser 1.528                             For a Microsoft free univers; -----------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 14:03:25 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> @ Subject: Re: Disk I/O Performance (was Re: OpenVMS loses big...)( Message-ID: <8jt8qo$ffg$1@pyrite.mv.net>  2 Doug W. <dashw459@aol.comeatspam> wrote in message4 news:20000704104302.29762.00000208@ng-mb1.aol.com...   ...   G > While the changes you referred to will benefit all customers, VMS and  COMPAQL > storage products have inherent problems no amount of RMS or cache tweaking will
 > resolve.   ...      Frankly, the aging RAID J > solutions available for VMS just plain suck on both cost and performance whenL > compared to competitors.  ULTRA 3 is not even supported.  Tacking fiber inF > front of old products does not inspire confidence.   Too many COMPAQ productsH > are UNIX or PC only.  Even if they work under VMS (proliant hardware), they areF > not qualified.   The VMS low cost RAID hardware (KZP) needed serious redesignK > years ago.  A  KZP trying to spiral is an engineering embarassment.   The  HSZ B > does somewhat better,  but is ridiculously expensive.  The sales
 literature is K > confusing at best (ULTRA2 like rates?).  The sales people just don't know  and K > recommend products that can't cut it.   There are no programs to exercise  and I > display Max I/O (shame on engineering, look whats available on the PC).  The D > software RAID can't get out of its own way and constantly makes an observerI > question why it is doing what it is doing.  Binding 2 HSZs makes a good  case! > for opensource and peer review.   J Storage has been one of Compaq's (and earlier DEC's) strengths for quite aH while, and if it's slipping that's serious.  People in comp.os.vms don'tK seem as sensitive to high storage performance as some (witness the reaction E to the caching discussion), so this may not be the best place to gain I corroboration for your assessment or generate the pressure on Compaq that 8 your description of the situation suggests is necessary.  K Corroboration comes first:  if Compaq can sell all the storage it wants to, F then it'll take a good deal more than one critical customer to make itL listen.  But I already know of a bunch of reasons that large storage vendorsJ like Compaq and EMC ought to be looking over their shoulders and trying toI stay technically current, and this is another big one if the situation is * anywhere nearly as bad as you describe it.   ...   J > At the bottom of the screen you will find UCB$L_MAXBCNT.    It will read FE00. K > Thats the max number of bytes you can xfer to the device, 127 blocks.  If  you L > want to do 80MB/sec too many splits are required.  If I seem angry keep in mindJ > that I have experienced many jokes about offloading disk I/O VMS can not handleE > to a cheap PC running NT.  COMPAQ please, please fix the '127 block  feature'
 > quickly. >  >  > K > So what can one do?  COMPAQ RAID hardware won't cut it, its software RAID  isI > pitiful and 3rd party products have trouble under VMS.  We are buying 2  diskL > controllers (ULTRA 2 ) and 4 drives.  We have written a small program that doesI > disk striping  on a file basis for reads and writes only.  No fancy RMS F > features just QIOs in buckets of 127.  No parity disk, hot swapping, shadows,J > backups or anything else.  A hack and kludge surely.  But nothing COMPAQ makes J > comes close to it in performance.  And the cost is rock bottom.  We wereJ > willing, ready and eager to spend a million but could not find a product thatG > worked.  As for the inevitable comments about software kludges, until 	 there are I > VMS products available that offer similar performance there are no good  > alternatives.   J One should point out that typical IDE controllers (at least historically -H it's possible that the situation has improved recently, but I think thatH would have cropped up in recent discussions elsewhere if it had) supportG only 16 or 17 memory segments per transfer, which in the NT environment F translates to 64 KB worth of 4 KB pages.  So on NT at least IDE drivesL suffer from the same split-I/O size limit that VMS has.  And while SCSI doesL not have a similar limitation, NT may handle both the same way (and at leastL some Unix systems default the max disk transfer size to 128 KB or so, though that can be bumped up IIRC).  J But with SCSI drives, unless the adapter and drive themselves can't handleF the command-processing overhead generated by 64 KB chunks (which seemsH unlikely), it's not clear why using that request size (and building up aL request queue at the disk to avoid missed rotations) should do anything moreJ than expend some additional system processing resources that larger chunksK could conserve.  And indeed if you've achieved reasonable performance usingr1 QIOs, that suggests that this is indeed the case.o  F So if QIOs are dramatically more effective than RMS in this situation,L either you weren't taking advantage of RMS, or RMS needs serious work.  To aA first approximation, RMS block I/O facilities, using asynchronousiJ multi-buffering as presumably you are with the QIOs, should be competitiveL with direct QIOs:  did you try that and find that this is not the case?  AndK if you want RMS to handle the asynchronous multi-buffering for you, you can,K use its read-ahead and write-behind mechanisms (though IIRC they're limited>= to sequential-file use, and that might automatically bring inIB record-processing overheads as well, which could make a noticeable difference):  did you try that?s  E If indeed you tried these things and still found dramatic differencesaI between RMS and QIOs, then that's important for Compaq to know about (andiJ there are people here who will likely make sure they find out) - so pleaseB expand on the description of your experiments if you have time to.   >:K > We are certain COMPAQ does not understand our needs and wonder where they  are I > going.  We do not understand why customers are left to qualify COMPAQ'sC8 > hardware for VMS or write their own striping software.  I The specific deficiencies you found in the striping software (at least myeK vague impression was that VMS supported RAID-0-style striping) would likelyiG be of interest to the development group, should you care to report thems here.o  H My understanding is that Compaq qualifies disks for VMS mostly to ensureG that they correctly support multi-initiator operation (for clustering),iL which has historically been a problem even though the SCSI specification hasL been unambiguous in this area for a long time.  Since the typical VMS systemH is clustered, and since most commodity SCSI drives seem to work with VMSE just fine in non-clustered operation (though it's been said that poormE support for some mode pages has caused problems in a few cases), thisn- attitude is at least somewhat understandable.   L But it certainly wouldn't be unreasonable for Compaq to qualify at least its own storage products on VMS.      We are worried noH > other customers are complaining and wonder if COMPAQ realizes what its > competitors providing.  K My guess would be that no other VMS customers are complaining because thereyI aren't many doing the kinds of things you are with VMS (which is far fromp9 saying that this market shouldn't be of interest to VMS).-  A My other guess would be that Compaq is as clueless as to what its G competitors are providing as it is in other areas.  The VMS developmentuE group still has a bunch of competent people in it, but they are a bitKG isolated and likely more than a bit shell-shocked as well after so manyk years of neglect.a   - bill   >  > Sorry to dump on you,r > Screaming  not streaming,g > DW   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 21:28:58 -0400A2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>A Subject: Re: How can I "replicate" Volume Shadowing on a Sun box?37 Message-ID: <200007042129_MC2-AB15-570D@compuserve.com>   =         I'm currently doing "hot" backups under Oracle 7.1.3.d  J         From memory, it's something like "ALTER TABLESPACE BACKUP" and th= enF do a normal VMS backup of the files in the tablespace.  You have to be4 running in "logging" mode in order for this to work.    & Message text written by Warren SpencerJ >Another approach to this type of problem is to use Oracle's native backu= p =   C facilities, which permit "hot" backups.  I believe this facility isa available =-  5 in 7.3 and later versions.  Hot backups are done on aM tablespace-by-tablespace =  8 basis, and do not require that you quiesce the database. <    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 19:02:36 +0200t? From: Krzysztof Kowalewski <Krzysztof.Kowalewski@softax.com.pl> * Subject: RMS indexed file instatly growing- Message-ID: <396234CC.71B80726@softax.com.pl>t  E I use a RMS indexed file with variable length record size. I use only @ functions sys$put and sys$delete. After putting 1000 records and@ deleting these records the size of the file is very large. After? repeating these operations the file size constantly increases. J  @ I clear the flag RAB$M_FDL (FAST_DELETE) in sys$delete function.  1 How to prevent the file from increasing its size?3   -- |9 Krzysztof Kowalewski (Krzysztof.Kowalewski@softax.com.pl)H Murphy's Law:	     If something can go wrong,    Segmentation fault (core dumped)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 15:11:34 -05009* From: Keith Brown <kbrown780@usfamily.net>. Subject: Re: RMS indexed file instatly growing, Message-ID: <396244F6.6D6D6F9C@usfamily.net>   Krzysztof Kowalewski wrote:  > G > I use a RMS indexed file with variable length record size. I use onlybB > functions sys$put and sys$delete. After putting 1000 records andB > deleting these records the size of the file is very large. After@ > repeating these operations the file size constantly increases. > B > I clear the flag RAB$M_FDL (FAST_DELETE) in sys$delete function. > 3 > How to prevent the file from increasing its size?t >  > --; > Krzysztof Kowalewski (Krzysztof.Kowalewski@softax.com.pl)  > Murphy's Law:s  >     If something can go wrong," > Segmentation fault (core dumped)     Try ...e   $ convert/reclaim.     --   Keith Brown  kbrown780@usfamily.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 15:20:46 -0400e) From: yyyc186.illegaltospam_@flashcom.netn. Subject: Re: RMS indexed file instatly growing9 Message-ID: <396239cd$1$lllp186$mr2ice@news.flashcom.com>t  2 In <396234CC.71B80726@softax.com.pl>, on 07/04/00 I    at 03:20 PM, Krzysztof Kowalewski <Krzysztof.Kowalewski@softax.com.pl>  said:   H You have to either delete it or do a CONVERT on the file.  You are beingH victimized by indexed bucket splitting.  On some versions of VMS you canJ do a CONVERT/RECLAIM and actually have it work, but I don't recommend it. K Do a HELP ANALYZE and read through the text on /RMS to create an FDL file. EH Edit the FDL file removing useless stuff at bottom and setting your fillH to 90% or higher.  Then do a CONVERT/FDL= using this edited FDL.  SoundsE far more complicated than it is.  Just be glad you aren't using Unix.C   Roland  F >I use a RMS indexed file with variable length record size. I use onlyJ >functions sys$put and sys$delete. After putting 1000 records and deletingH >these records the size of the file is very large. After repeating these0 >operations the file size constantly increases.   A >I clear the flag RAB$M_FDL (FAST_DELETE) in sys$delete function.   2 >How to prevent the file from increasing its size?     --  ; -----------------------------------------------------------cD yyyc186@flashcom.net              To Respond delete ".illegaltospam"6                             MR/2 Internet Cruiser 1.528                             For a Microsoft free univers; -----------------------------------------------------------n   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 21:43:18 -07002 From: "Randy Park" <rjpark@mindspring.com.nospaam>. Subject: Re: RMS indexed file instatly growing2 Message-ID: <8jueg1$5gp$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>  J Krzysztof Kowalewski <Krzysztof.Kowalewski@softax.com.pl> wrote in message' news:396234CC.71B80726@softax.com.pl...DG > I use a RMS indexed file with variable length record size. I use onlytB > functions sys$put and sys$delete. After putting 1000 records andB > deleting these records the size of the file is very large. After@ > repeating these operations the file size constantly increases. >oB > I clear the flag RAB$M_FDL (FAST_DELETE) in sys$delete function. >u3 > How to prevent the file from increasing its size?  >  > --; > Krzysztof Kowalewski (Krzysztof.Kowalewski@softax.com.pl), > Murphy's Law:p  >     If something can go wrong," > Segmentation fault (core dumped)  / Several things you should understand about RMS:o@ 1.  You will have less bucket splitting, and thus a smaller file> size, if your records are added in primary key sequence order.C 2.  Even after you delete a record, the RFA (Record's File Address) 5 or the retrieval pointer for the record still exists.=? 3.  The CONVERT/RECLAIM command will recover space in the file.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 18:21:07 -0400L- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a6 Subject: Selling software to corporation AND hobbyists, Message-ID: <39626346.E14CD686@videotron.ca>  H I intend to eventually productize some software. I would like to make itK available for purchase/download on the web, with a license key emailed oncef? application is processed (and invoice emailed or paper-mailed).e  K I think that initially, I will only issue the equivalent of temporary paks,2F with a permanent one issued when payment is received. This allows easy management of free-trials etc.  R (note, that none of this uses LMF since it is not accessible to use lowly humans).  D However, I would also like to make the product available for free toJ hobbyists, I think that there is value there since they could also provide8 debugging information, suggestions for improvements etc.  H However, I am a bit at a loss on how to implement this. This is a pagingI product (for pagers and cell phones), so it is pretty hard to cut down oniM capabilities without making product unusable, and I don't want to add text towM every page sent "this was sent with a hobbyist version" since such text takes P up valuable space on a cell phone. (and wouldn't go on a numeric pager anyways).  H Are there any suggestions on how I could go about this to provide a goodK product, yet find a way that corporations will want to pay for it, a way tosM distinguish/define what a hobbyist is, and somehow enforce that distinction ?   G In other words, what could the software do in "hobbyist" mode do that aeG corporate environemnt woudl balk at while it would not be a problem ford
 hobbysts ?   ------------------------------  " Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 23:41:30 GMT( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>: Subject: Re: Selling software to corporation AND hobbyists' Message-ID: <Fx75t7.7Ls@spcuna.spc.edu>m  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: K > (note, that none of this uses LMF since it is not accessible to use lowly?
 > humans).  H   A long time ago there was some freeware (out of CMU? I don't remember)F that sent you a PAK when you registered it, and they had their own PAKJ generator. Also, I recall reading that the current VMS developer's programI was looking at making a new PAK generator available to members at a much-iI reduced price. And of course you could make your own PAK generator if youI* really wanted to - it's not a huge secret.  J   The advantage of getting into the official PAK program is that you get aJ unique producer/issuer name so they won't conflict with anyone else in theK program. However, if you used "JFMEZEI" as the producer/issuer, I doubt you  would ever have a conflict 8-)  J > Are there any suggestions on how I could go about this to provide a goodM > product, yet find a way that corporations will want to pay for it, a way to-O > distinguish/define what a hobbyist is, and somehow enforce that distinction ?l >aI > In other words, what could the software do in "hobbyist" mode do that a I > corporate environemnt woudl balk at while it would not be a problem for- > hobbysts ?  L   Limit the total number of pages per time interval, and also limit the num-N ber of pagers/phones supported to a small number like 4 (husband/wife/2 kids).K A business buying a commercial product would likely have more pagers/phones.: defined in the package and would be generating more pages.  M   You could also ask if you could hook into the VMS Hobbyist license system -eK for example, to get a MultiNet PAK you have to provide the checksum of yourdJ Hobbyist VMS PAK to Process Software (and if the link to the Hobbyist siteM is down, you don't get a MultiNet PAK [but you may get mail from Hunter apol-p> ogizing for the problem 8-], so it's definitely a real check).  - 	Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com 5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USAi   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 21:51:38 -0400r2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>6 Subject: Selling software to corporation AND hobbyists6 Message-ID: <200007042151_MC2-AB1F-335@compuserve.com>  H         Before you spend a lot of time and effort on this, consider thatJ most paging services (around here anyway) can initiate a page via E-mail.=   =   J My systems at work simply send mail to <mumble>@pagenet.com when they nee= d H professional help.  Systems problems page me, applications problems pageJ the applications group leader.  One of my systems will page me to remind = meJ of appointments;  all it takes is a batch job submitted with /AFTER=3D an= d ai
 MAIL command?   F         What is your product going to do that will make it valuable to business users and/or hobbyistse    Message text written by JF Mezei > =s  H I intend to eventually productize some software. I would like to make itJ available for purchase/download on the web, with a license key emailed on= ce? application is processed (and invoice emailed or paper-mailed).   J I think that initially, I will only issue the equivalent of temporary pak= s,F with a permanent one issued when payment is received. This allows easy management of free-trials etc.  J (note, that none of this uses LMF since it is not accessible to use lowly=   humans).  D However, I would also like to make the product available for free toJ hobbyists, I think that there is value there since they could also provid= ee8 debugging information, suggestions for improvements etc.  H However, I am a bit at a loss on how to implement this. This is a pagingJ product (for pagers and cell phones), so it is pretty hard to cut down on=  J capabilities without making product unusable, and I don't want to add tex= th toG every page sent "this was sent with a hobbyist version" since such texte takes F up valuable space on a cell phone. (and wouldn't go on a numeric pager	 anyways).n  H Are there any suggestions on how I could go about this to provide a goodJ product, yet find a way that corporations will want to pay for it, a way = toJ distinguish/define what a hobbyist is, and somehow enforce that distincti= on ?a  G In other words, what could the software do in "hobbyist" mode do that a G corporate environemnt woudl balk at while it would not be a problem fori
 hobbysts ?   <    ------------------------------  " Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 02:49:14 GMT( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>: Subject: Re: Selling software to corporation AND hobbyists' Message-ID: <Fx7EI2.9Eq@spcuna.spc.edu>e  2 Richard B. Gilbert <DRAGON@compuserve.com> writes:J >         Before you spend a lot of time and effort on this, consider thatM > most paging services (around here anyway) can initiate a page via E-mail.   L > My systems at work simply send mail to <mumble>@pagenet.com when they needJ > professional help.  Systems problems page me, applications problems pageM > the applications group leader.  One of my systems will page me to remind mesL > of appointments;  all it takes is a batch job submitted with /AFTER= and a > MAIL command?l >hH >         What is your product going to do that will make it valuable to! > business users and/or hobbyistst  K   It depends on what his software brings to the party. For example, you caneL send messages to my SMS device via tha carrier's web page or their email-to-K pager service, but there is no confirmation - in fact, if you mis-spell theeK number and make an invalid number, the carrier doesn't give you any notifi-u cation.   H   However, if you send an email message to my software, it sends the SMSI message and waits up to 5 minutes for an ACK from the SMS terminal sayingnI my phone got the message. If it doesn't get an ACK in 5 minutes, it sendsuK a reply saying I'm probably out of the service area or my phone is off, andnF that it will send another reply when the message is finally delivered.  K   And when my phone ACKs the message, my software sends a confirmation mes-IH sage saying it was delivered, along with an image of how the message was1 displayed (with possible truncation) on my phone.i  - 	Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.comn5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USAk   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 23:45:51 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>c: Subject: Re: Selling software to corporation AND hobbyists, Message-ID: <3962AF6F.66517A0B@videotron.ca>   "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote:o > J >         Before you spend a lot of time and effort on this, consider thatK > most paging services (around here anyway) can initiate a page via E-mail.p  N But they don't let you format the message the way you want, some will truncateG your email and that is it, others will split it into multiple pages. MyiK software has this in under defined profiles. An no system will allow you too? format the headers the way you want (or omit them alltogether).n  D Also, where do you think those paging companies get their software ?  K Also, when sending a page directly to the paging system (TAP protocol), you M get a confirmation number, whereas when you send an email, you send it to the M great big bit bucket and HOPE it gets there. Some TAP servers will also allow L you to dial back in and get a status of your page (to see if the handset has; actually received the page or if handset is still offline).)    H Also, while my current version supports only TAP, there is also the SMPPK protocol for smart pages (GSM phones ;  Qualcomm refused to adopt that open L standard) where you can send much more then text (agenda entries, phone bookL entries, ringtones, logos etc etc). SMPP also allows bidirectional messagingM (allowing transactional use where you can send an SMS from your phone and the 3 server will respond with the requested information.S   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 23:19:16 -0500h) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net>e: Subject: Re: Selling software to corporation AND hobbyists7 Message-ID: <10f401bfe638$31139ff0$020a0a0a@xile.realm>a  . JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote: To: <Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com>r$ Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2000 5:21 PM6 Subject: Selling software to corporation AND hobbyists    J > I intend to eventually productize some software. I would like to make itH > available for purchase/download on the web, with a license key emailed onceA > application is processed (and invoice emailed or paper-mailed).h <edit>F > However, I would also like to make the product available for free toL > hobbyists, I think that there is value there since they could also provide: > debugging information, suggestions for improvements etc. > J > However, I am a bit at a loss on how to implement this. This is a pagingK > product (for pagers and cell phones), so it is pretty hard to cut down on L > capabilities without making product unusable, and I don't want to add text toI > every page sent "this was sent with a hobbyist version" since such textc takesvH > up valuable space on a cell phone. (and wouldn't go on a numeric pager	 anyways).D >2I > In other words, what could the software do in "hobbyist" mode do that ahI > corporate environemnt woudl balk at while it would not be a problem fore > hobbysts ?  K Not many Hobbyists probably need to dial 8 or 9 or some other prefix for an.
 outside line.e  H But I am not sure if there is something like that you can use if you are# going to market it internationally.o   -Johni wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jul 2000 13:42:52 -0500". From: rjordan@Jupiter.mcs.net (Richard Jordan); Subject: Re: slightly off-topic/InfoServer function pricingM* Message-ID: <8jtb7c$mnv$1@Jupiter.mcs.net>   Hoff,uG      if there's any chance of getting the Infoserver enhanced functions G made available as freeware that would be a godsend.  I had attempted toyE contact (indirectly) people who were with the Infoserver product withoH that goal in mind, but dead-ended trying to reach the product manager.   My own wants are@ strictly non-commercial/hobbyist, but I can't imagine having theG enhancements moved to freeware statuc costing the Q much at all at thiseJ point, with the hardware discontinued and no further software enhancements coming.a  G Last time I checked the actual Infoserver load software (for the IS1000 D at least) was still on one of the CONDIST CDs for VMS.  This did notE include the enhanced function license s/w, just the actual operating  	 software.g   Rich Jordan  rjordan@mcs.netu   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 18:13:19 -04000- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>u" Subject: Traceback info from AST ?, Message-ID: <39626173.BE791E39@videotron.ca>  N Is is possible for a routine running in AST mode to know what the main program0 is up to, or access some traceback information ?  N (I know how this could manually be acheived, but it would require changing allJ of my code to constantly update some pointer that the AST would use. I was? just wondering if this were possible in a more systematic way ?   I For every program that does telecom stuff, I like to have some inactivityeH timer that will exit the program with a status code asking it to restartN itself if there is no activity for a certain amount of time during a region ofJ the program where there should be. This solves the problem of stuck ports,+ broken modems, or non responding hosts etc.t  M However, I would like, prior to exiting at the AST level, to be able to printmM out some of the info of where the main program was doing at the time that theg timeout was detected.6   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 23:31:17 -0500c) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net>z& Subject: Re: Traceback info from AST ?7 Message-ID: <110001bfe639$e1e949f0$020a0a0a@xile.realm>o  . JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:  H > Is is possible for a routine running in AST mode to know what the main programa2 > is up to, or access some traceback information ? >oL > (I know how this could manually be acheived, but it would require changing alleL > of my code to constantly update some pointer that the AST would use. I wasA > just wondering if this were possible in a more systematic way ?o  K Actually that may be a good idea.  It has lots of possibilities if you wantI3 to use a second program to easily spy on the first.i  K > For every program that does telecom stuff, I like to have some inactivitynJ > timer that will exit the program with a status code asking it to restartF > itself if there is no activity for a certain amount of time during a	 region of$L > the program where there should be. This solves the problem of stuck ports,- > broken modems, or non responding hosts etc.- >-I > However, I would like, prior to exiting at the AST level, to be able to  printoK > out some of the info of where the main program was doing at the time that  the  > timeout was detected.   G If you are intending on exiting the program, and your program is linked-K TRACEBACK, then a call to LIB$SIGNAL with an appropriate status code should1K cause a trace back dump that includes the AST, and the routine that the AST: interrupted.  I If your program is linked NOTRACEBACK, you can establish an error handlerrL and trap the LIB$SIGNAL call.  However actually simulating the trace back isH not something I have ever investigated, but that topic was discussed andB some solutions were offered in the past year or so on comp.os.vms.  H Effectively to use that information, you would have to compare it to theI listings and possibly the LINK map of the build that produced that image.n  > Your first idea may give you the best results in the long run.   -Johne wb8ytw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 18:01:46 GMTo% From: Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com>a/ Subject: Re: XML Parser for OpenVMS Available ?c) Message-ID: <8jt8q2$nug$1@nnrp1.deja.com>m  9 In article <8F636D622warrenspenceralcanco@142.14.12.164>, 2   warren.spencer@alcan.com (Warren Spencer) wrote: > Hi Folks,e >fD > Has anyone seen an XML parser for OpenVMS?  If you have, could you, > point me in the right direction?  Thanks!!   Take a look at:t'     http://www.python.org/sigs/xml-sig/s   Python for OpenVMS is at:o'     http://www.decus.de/~zessin/python/   . However, I don't have any experience with XML.   --
 Uwe Zessin    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.:   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 23:21:13 GMTCL From: winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr")/ Subject: Re: XML Parser for OpenVMS Available ? 8 Message-ID: <009EC95C.55A9A68B@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>  k In article <8F636D622warrenspenceralcanco@142.14.12.164>, warren.spencer@alcan.com (Warren Spencer) writes:t
 >Hi Folks, >aM >Has anyone seen an XML parser for OpenVMS?  If you have, could you point me a" >in the right direction?  Thanks!! >t  K I haven't seen a stand-alone XML parser for VMS, but I haven't been lookingoJ very hard.  I believe there's a PERL module for parsing XML, which didn't H work on VMS out of the box, but somebody on the vmsperl mailing list was working on porting it.  + Maybe Dan Sugalski can say more about this.i   -- Alan   O ===============================================================================o0  Alan Winston --- WINSTON@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDUM  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056nM  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210pO ===============================================================================n   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.372 ************************