1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 07 Jul 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 376       Contents:- Re: ANNOUNCING: MegaPOVRay v0.5a For OpenVMS. - Re: ANNOUNCING: MegaPOVRay v0.5a For OpenVMS.  Re: Application Future ?  Re: Charon-VAX Hobbyist Question" Re: CMQ/Dec with a sense of Humor?" Re: CMQ/Dec with a sense of Humor?( Re: DCL for detecting a finished process( Re: DCL for detecting a finished process Re: DEC C Question *variable ++ 7 Re: Disk I/O Performance (was Re: OpenVMS loses big...) 7 Re: Disk I/O Performance (was Re: OpenVMS loses big...) 7 Re: Disk I/O Performance (was Re: OpenVMS loses big...) 7 Re: Disk I/O Performance (was Re: OpenVMS loses big...) 7 Re: Disk I/O Performance (was Re: OpenVMS loses big...)  INFO ON BACKUP START UP TAPE( Re: Netscape Fasttrack for OpenVMS 7.2-1 ODS-5 volumes... Re: ODS-5 volumes... Re: ODS-5 volumes... Re: ODS-5 volumes... Re: ODS-5 volumes... Re: ODS-5 volumes... Re: ODS-5 volumes... Re: ODS-5 volumes... Re: ODS-5 volumes...2 Re: OpenVMS loses big, was:  RE: Compaq advertises2 Re: OpenVMS loses big, was:  RE: Compaq advertises1 Re: OpenVMS loses big, was: RE: Compaq advertises  patch coverage% Re: SCSI hard drive 4 VAX 4700 needed % Re: SCSI hard drive 4 VAX 4700 needed & Re: XML Parser for OpenVMS Available ?' your boss will NOT tell you this....... * [Q] Does VMS support IDE for system disks?. Re: [Q] Does VMS support IDE for system disks?. Re: [Q] Does VMS support IDE for system disks?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 21:46:29 GMT 3 From: "Gord Coulman" <nospam_gcoulman@ccinet.ab.ca> 6 Subject: Re: ANNOUNCING: MegaPOVRay v0.5a For OpenVMS.: Message-ID: <V6795.27921$FQ.2408917@news0.telusplanet.net>   Yes, but what does it do?    Gord.   < Robert Alan Byer <byer@mail.ourservers.net> wrote in message- news:3963DF2D.7A6EA4B4@mail.ourservers.net... * > Announcing MegaPOVRay v0.5a for OpenVMS.. > (Yes, it's a month late, but I've been busy) > " > Here's what's new/fixed/removed. >  >   REMOVED GIF SUPPORT 7 > (potential legal issued reguarding the Unisys patnet) " >   fixed docs for pigment_pattern0 >   fixed disc problems (removed fastdisc patch)- >   fixed bug with photons on average texture 0 >   fixed bug with media method 3 when samples=1A >   fixed bug with parsing backwards compatibility and unofficial  > version number >   added fastsphere patch >   added fastpoly patchE >   fixed "bug" with mesh (MegaPOV didn't ignore degenerate triangles ) > if uv mapping was used in the triangle)  >   fixed bug with tff >   fixed bug with csqr  > D > Again, currently only the Alpha platform is supported with MegaPOV@ > because it requires the IEE_FLOAT mode which VAX dosen't have. > & > You can get the latest version at... > * > http://www.ourservers.net/openvms_ports/ > = > If you have any problems or questions, feel free to e-mail.  >  > -- > B >  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+B >  | Robert Alan Byer | byer@mail.ourservers.net | ICQ #65926579 |B >  +------------------+--------------------------+---------------+B >  | Send an E-mail request to obtain a copy of my PGP key.      |B >  +-------------------------------------------------------------+B >  | "It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.  It is by |B >  |  cans of cola the thoughts aquire speed, the hands aquire   |B >  |  shakes, the shakes become a warning.  It is by caffeine    |B >  |  alone I set my mind in motion."                            |B >  +-------------------------------------------------------------+   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jul 2000 06:13:18 GMT - From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) 6 Subject: Re: ANNOUNCING: MegaPOVRay v0.5a For OpenVMS.5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-tbt9hMs2D6GS@localhost>   . On Sun, 6 Jul 3900 01:21:49, Robert Alan Byer ! <byer@mail.ourservers.net> wrote:   D > Again, currently only the Alpha platform is supported with MegaPOV@ > because it requires the IEE_FLOAT mode which VAX dosen't have.  C Just out of curiosity, why is IEEE_FLOAT a necessity? What's wrong   with G_, F_, D_floatings?    Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 17:09:52 -0600 1 From: Glen Martin <GLENMARK@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu> ! Subject: Re: Application Future ? 4 Message-ID: <3964BD60.6CF32295@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu>   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote:K > > Will MACROMEDIA deliver its products (at least the Shockwave) for VMS ?  > M > Flash players and SDKs are available. The VMS group, or anyone could make a P > port if they wanted to. It would be far easier for Compaq to do the port sinceN > it has the money to do so. If an individual does the port, he has no hope of > making money.   H Unfortunately, the VMS port of Netscape 3.x seems to have no support forE plugins, at least according to the Digits that I asked about it a few  years back.   < Does anyone know if this has changed under the Mozilla port?   Glen   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 21:06:13 GMT 2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>) Subject: Re: Charon-VAX Hobbyist Question 5 Message-ID: <9x695.104$sp6.50541@typhoon.aracnet.com>   . Hunter Goatley <goathunter@goatley.com> wrote:E > Just FYI, following the suggestion someone here made, I was able to > > get C-Kermit transferring files after I bumped up the SYSGEND > parameters related to the typeahead buffers.  Once again, C-Kermit > comes to the rescue!  I Cool!  I've been so busy lately that I just finally got the first part of K the install done and booted up the RD54 image and started to do the rest of J the install this morning.  Then I went to do something else while that wasF running on Virtual PC....   BOOM!  Virtual PC crashed my Mac and I was$ unable to recover, so had to reboot.  H So... I still don't know how well it works under Virtual PC.  I will sayG this much though the first two tests when you start the program up take K forever to complete.  It's been a year or so since I last powered up one of I my MVII's, but I don't remember the tests taking anywhere near that long.   K I'm really hoping to get a system disk built while I've still got access to I a iBook SE, so I can test it out on that!  However, it's starting to look 8 like I won't have time while I still have the iBook. :^(  K All in all, carrying around a VAXstation 4000/VLC and a Laptop looks like a F *LOT* better solution.  I can toss both in a backpack, the VLC will beM considerably faster, and I can use DECwindows for the couple GUI apps I want. K Since this will work a lot better than a PC Laptop running Charon, there is & no reason not to have a Mac Laptop :^)   				Zane   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2000 16:14:09 -0400 4 From: "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com>+ Subject: Re: CMQ/Dec with a sense of Humor? + Message-ID: <B58A60D3-71148@165.247.40.126>   C On Wed, Jul 5, 2000 5:47 PM, Joel Garry <jgarry@my-deja.com> wrote:   I >Speaking of Datatrieve and humor, I always thought the syntax for nested I >queries was kind of bizarre, like FIND FIND FIND FIND ALL ALL ALL ALL...   E Reminds me of what the first grade teachers said when she went to her 5 car in the morning and discovered it had a flat tire:   1 Oh! Oh! Oh!  Look! Look! Look!  Damn! Damn! Damn!   6 (So was Datatrieve designed by a first grade teacher?)   ---------------------------  Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 15:05:44 -0700+ From: "Peter Smith" <peter@wildtangent.com> + Subject: Re: CMQ/Dec with a sense of Humor? * Message-ID: <3965024c$1_2@news.nwlink.com>  + >   Ken Robinson <ksrobin@erenj.com> wrote: 1 > > On 14 Jun 2000, at 19:42, Dan O'Reilly wrote:  > > : > > > I don't know if VMS Datatrieve had this message, but
 Datatrieve-11  > had ? > > > an error message, in response to a user trying "AT MIDDLE  OF PAGE  > > > <dosomething>"; > > > that was "AT MIDDLE OF PAGE is innovative, but, alas,  illegal".  One > of my = > > > all-time faves.  Along with, of course, "LINK-F-Illegal  Error" from  > the  > > > RT-11 linker...  > > @ > > Speaking of Datatrieve... Does anybody remember what you got when? > > you typed "Help wombat" when you were in Datatrieve and you  were@ > > using a terminal that recognized REGIS graphics???  The last time I > tried @ > > the command, at a recent Decus Symposium, it was gone... :-( >  I can't speak for Datatrieve...   ? but the RS/1 statistical software has a draw unicorns routines.  In the: Windows version, it even pops up a seperate window for it.   Peter    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 11:30:43 -0700 8 From: quicksand <quicksandNOquSPAM@chilis.co.uk.invalid>1 Subject: Re: DCL for detecting a finished process 9 Message-ID: <05908e38.2be5b916@usw-ex0102-013.remarq.com>   < Thanks very much, Tim.  Your suggestion to go the way of theA lexical functions (F$GETJPI in this case) was right on the money.  Made it very easy.  : Time was when I knew all this pretty well, or at least the correct * place to start....  but I've gotten rusty.   Much appreciated.       ; -----------------------------------------------------------   7 Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.  Up to 100 minutes free!  http://www.keen.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 14:48:51 -0500 " From: Earl Lakia <lakia@ipact.com>1 Subject: Re: DCL for detecting a finished process ) Message-ID: <3964E2A3.DA42F761@ipact.com>    take a look at getjpi.   -earl    quicksand wrote:  A >   We are working on a script (.COM) to loop "SHOW SYS" commands ? > for a specific process...  it logs vital statistics about the C > process to a file.  Right now it just loops until we kill it with  > Cntrl-C. <br> B >   We'd like to enhance it so that it detects when the process isB > gone (the SHOW SYS command would return nothing/blanks) and stop > automatically. > <br> <br> A >   I tried using a test of $STATUS, but evidentally it considers ; > all requests sucessful, even if the process is not found. @ > <br>   other trivia:  It defines sys$output to the desired logC > file before attempting any "show sys/id='p1'/noheading" commands.  > <br> <br> <br> > Thanks very much in advance. > = > -----------------------------------------------------------  > 9 > Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.  > Up to 100 minutes free!  > http://www.keen.com    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2000 16:06:08 -0400 4 From: "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com>( Subject: Re: DEC C Question *variable +++ Message-ID: <B58A5EF2-6A021@165.247.40.126>   F On Thu, Jul 6, 2000 4:54 AM, Richard Brodie <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> wrote:   > < >I hope not. Not after all the trouble the designers of C...9                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ :                            HAR HAR HAR!  Good one Richard!     ---------------------------  Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 21:03:00 -0400 2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>@ Subject: Re: Disk I/O Performance (was Re: OpenVMS loses big...)7 Message-ID: <200007062103_MC2-AB62-6E5A@compuserve.com>   J         But simply flooding the disk with I/O requests is not the solutio= n D either.  You need to flood the disk with BIG I/O requests.  Four I/OH requests for 125 blocks each will run a lot faster than 500 requests for one block each.   E         I've seen an Oracle import running like a dog with a peak I/O H request queue on a disk of 498 requests and an average of about 90.  TheF disk had no lack of work to do but it was not accomplishing very much.  ' Message text written by Jan Vorbrueggen B >But that's what the original post was talking about: writing data sequentiallyJ to files that are a large fraction of a disk's capacity, and (much) large= r J than any on-disk cache. In that case, the cache might as well not exist a= s H long as you can keep the device fed with operations to perform. Ergo, if you J performance drops when you disable cache in this scenario, you're not doi= ng$ the I/O properly in the first case.<   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 20:55:30 -0500 , From: "Glenn C. Everhart" <Everhart@GCE.com>@ Subject: Re: Disk I/O Performance (was Re: OpenVMS loses big...)' Message-ID: <3964F241.745E8F65@GCE.com>   = This effect is just space allocation. Use fragavoider and get 
 rid of it. That has been on the sigtapes.   David Mathog wrote:  > C > In article <8jg564$dq1$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, you write:  > > L > >  Given some of the relatively low I/O performance in several of the moreL > >  common tools -- one of the locals has a significantly faster version ofM > >  zip that gains its performance through larger transfers, for instance -- G > >  even basic SET RMS-level tuning can help with the I/O performance.  > >  > L > Right.  The thing that seems to make the most difference is setting extendK > properly.  For instance, if I run gunzip "vanilla" on the DS10 it makes a L > frenetic "ticky-ticky-ticky" sound as the heads bounce around the disk forM > each extend.  What I usually do is eyeball the size of the .gz, multiply by H > three, and set extend to that.  It speeds things up a lot and _sounds_: > better, just one quick "bzzt" or "blaaaat" as it writes. > M > When my users run various programs I hear a lot of that "ticky-ticky-ticky"  > noise. > I > Anyway, that suggests that the manner in which file extends are handled M > could use some work in the performance area.  I'm guessing that it actually L > has to write the disk bitmap and maybe the directory each time it extends,H > and that's three 8 ms delays as the heads move to the bitmap, then theL > directory, then back to the end of the file.  I may have the details wrongH > but you can really hear the heads jumping around on the drives at eachM > extend.  (One of the "benefits" of having your DS10 sitting on a large flat : > table which does an excellent imitation of a drum head.) > I > >  One of my pet peeves is the relatively poor settings for various RMS K > >  defaults -- they were good back when memory was tight, but they're not ( > >  so hot with large-memory systems... > >  > N > At least for files you can twiddle the RMS parameters, pipes are even worse.H > The only parameter you can tweak sets the general mailbox sizes, so itM > affects all mailboxes on the system, and when I cranked those up Decwindows  > failed on the next login!  > I > The limit I keep running into is that no matter what I do RMS IO always K > seems to come out 2.5 - 6x slower than on Linux, for any memory to memory E > operation.  That was the ratio for netpipe tests through localhost, J > and that was the same ratio for a record based copy test using a Ramdisk( > (versus file caching.)  If you look at > = >   http://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/www/vmstcpip/COMPARISON.GIF  > D > and examine the localhost tests on various systems you'll find theJ > interesting result that the plot is linear up to the point it bends overK > due to saturation and the slope in the linear regions of the plots is the ? > same for all OS's. It's a log log plot, so I guess that shift K > indicates an overhead ratio which is proportional to the size of the size J > of the data. So if I'm thinking straight, and y = log(xfer rate) and x =" > log(buffer size) then y = ax + b >  >   exp(y) = exp(ax+b)$ >   xfer rate = buffer size * exp(b)& >   xfer rate = buffer size * constant > > > That is, the performance is proportional to the buffer size,J > and the constant is likely inversely proportional to the number of timesJ > each byte is scanned (or average operations per byte.)  That's a bit tooK > simplistic - I should probably fit the curves better to pick up any other M > nonlinear terms.  Anyway, it fits a model where Linux uses say 2 operations M > per byte, TCIP/IP services about 6, and Multinet about 10, (or multiply all # > of the above by the same factor.)  > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu @ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 21:14:19 -0500O, From: "Glenn C. Everhart" <Everhart@GCE.com>@ Subject: Re: Disk I/O Performance (was Re: OpenVMS loses big...)' Message-ID: <3964F6AB.6912043A@GCE.com>V  3 Fragavoid does this, edits io$_modify on the fly...   > Default extent is 25% of the file current size; you can select< the fraction. Never grabs more than 1/8 of free space unless the program asked for more.p  C I found that essentially all the time files are truncated on close, 1 so there is no need to deal with that separately.e   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: > 6 > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes: > K > > Anyway, that suggests that the manner in which file extends are handledo0 > > could use some work in the performance area. > O > I liked Glenn Everhart's scheme, the details of which I don't quite remember,D  > but which are similar to this: > M > - take the higher of the amount requested and x% (e.g., x=10) of the amountu# >   currently allocated to the file-J > - take the lower of the previous amount and some fraction (e.g., 1-3) of! >   free space left on the volumetJ > - take the lower of the previous amount and some fixed, volume-dependent2 >   maximum (e.g., 1% of the volume's total space) > M > Thinking through various scenarios, this handles all I could think of well.TJ > One could also track the last request and automatically truncate to thatC > (implied) size on close if an explicit $TRUNCATE isn't performed.f > 
 >         Jan    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 21:38:04 -0500a, From: "Glenn C. Everhart" <Everhart@GCE.com>@ Subject: Re: Disk I/O Performance (was Re: OpenVMS loses big...)' Message-ID: <3964FC3C.38D1A8EB@GCE.com>-  = Ah, I hate to see reflexive praise of VMS' competitors. Seemsa misplaced here...o  ? NT might indeed have competent SCSI drivers, but I've seen somee@ indications not all are; indications like  NT vendors finding it> strange to have a driver check the RC bit or some others which; control whether a device may simply invent data. (I've alsoE0 seen worse sins; not all vendors do great work.)  > The situation with these OSs may be far more complex. Consider: that unix uses SCSI reserve/release to control disk accessB (maybe not all unix but Solaris certainly does). Consider too thatB NT uses a pervasive caching system. In the details discussing this@ (have a look at Windows NT Filesystem Internals) it is mentioned? that a (mis)feature of this design is that NT cannot absolutely ? guarantee writes ever make it to disk. (The boundary conditionsaD that are involved are a tad rare, but they exist.) VMS goes to great> lengths, IF the disk supports it, to queue I/O requests at the1 disk rather than in the OS (to minimize latency).s  8 I'd say there are way too many variables unknown here to> assign a definite cause. I have heard of writing speedups when< disk writeback cache is enabled, though these depend much on> how much data moves, and turning on that feature at times alsoC enables disk firmware bugs. I've seen such (but again, fortunately,| not too often).-  @ By actual scsi bus monitors, VMS can keep a SCSI bus pretty well> saturated. There are less options for port drivers than on PCsA but the ones that there are can, apart from the occasional glitch ; which does get fixed, smoke the bus. I would also note that C a number of VMS utilities multibuffer and use heavy AST programmingh= for you. If their unix or nt counterparts do not, so much the|= worse for them. However and as I said, without many more bits 9 of information, intelligent commentary on relative speeds- of transfers is tough to do. Bill Todd wrote: > M > Either you do not understand how to do asynchronous multi-buffering, or you:M > have a SCSI driver that won't queue multiple operations concurrently to theb > disk.S > J > Given that you obtained the same result on NT (which does have competent& > SCSI drivers), I suspect the former. >  > - bill > 3 > Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> wrote in messagee+ > news:200007060616.IAA06978@fom.fgan.de... 
 > > Hello, > >i > > Bill Todd wrotes:T > >c > > >>>hK > > The normal approach to obtaining good streaming performance from a SCSI- > diskL > > is to use asynchronous multi-buffering such that the disk always has one > orN > > more outstanding requests ready to be satisfied, and can just keep sendingH > > or receiving the data without pause.  This does not require enablingM > > write-back caching for writes to perform well.  You can ask RMS to handle K > > this for you (using its read-ahead/write-behind options) in some cases.d > > L > > If you weren't doing this, the reason you obtained decent streaming-readL > > performance was because the disk was automatically pre-fetching for you.J > > Depending on the intelligence of its algorithm, you might or might not > haveF > > been able to do somewhat better by doing your own multi-buffering. > > <<<i > >eG > > Tis is not our expirience. Multi-buffering brings a little bit morea	 > perfor-lL > > mance, but that growth that the disk onboard write cache brings. We haveM > > tested it with WINNT. Disbaling the disk cache (read or write) brings thebN > > performance down from 15.2MB/s to 3.6MB/s (in our test environment; 18.2GBL > > IBM DGHS disk). This value is relative system independent. So you can doH > > with RMS what you want, you can't speed up over the meassured value. > >u > > Regards Rudolf Wingert > >rI > > P.S. The OpenVMS test was a little bit unrealistic, because we used auH > >      contigeous file. But I think that on all systems non-contigeous2 > >      files will bring a performance degration. > >  > >e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 01:42:21 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>l@ Subject: Re: Disk I/O Performance (was Re: OpenVMS loses big...)( Message-ID: <8k3qgm$4ji$1@pyrite.mv.net>  ; Richard B. Gilbert <DRAGON@compuserve.com> wrote in messages1 news:200007062103_MC2-AB62-6E5A@compuserve.com... L >         But simply flooding the disk with I/O requests is not the solutionF > either.  You need to flood the disk with BIG I/O requests.  Four I/OJ > requests for 125 blocks each will run a lot faster than 500 requests for > one block each.s  @ Only because SCSI command processing happens to take longer thanL transferring a single block does:  otherwise, the request size is irrelevantG to streaming bandwidth, as long as you keep at least one request always  queued at the drive.  L And in the context of this discussion, 125 blocks is not particularly large,J and in fact is within the VMS QIO size limit that has been brought up as aE possible problem (which it isn't, at least in this context, since forvL sequential access 125-block requests will stream at the maximum data rate ofI the drive, because the transfer time *does* exceed the command-processing>/ time and thus the queue can be kept non-empty).e  G >         I've seen an Oracle import running like a dog with a peak I/OJJ > request queue on a disk of 498 requests and an average of about 90.  TheH > disk had no lack of work to do but it was not accomplishing very much.  L If it was not transferring at maximum bandwidth, it was because the requestsJ weren't physically sequential on the drive.  Or because they were so smallI that the command processing overhead exceeded the transfer time (as notedSK above), though in that case you would see the queue form in the driver, not- at the disk.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 13:40:56 -0700,. From: miguel ramirez <mramir18@calstatela.edu>% Subject: INFO ON BACKUP START UP TAPEC. Message-ID: <3964EED8.9FAE07F5@calstatela.edu>  C    Im running a 3100 microvax computer model 20 with 4207 tektronixeH terminal.  I need information on how to make a startup back up tape in aF TK-50 tape.  Mounting device is mka500.  I also need help on finding aD console for the computer.  I have vt220 emulator, but im not sure ifG that is the right one for the computer.  I would appreciated if anybodyv has advice on what to do.O  H                                                                   Miguel   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 00:59:03 GMTa' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com>g1 Subject: Re: Netscape Fasttrack for OpenVMS 7.2-1 - Message-ID: <39652B14.82D7B79D@theblakes.com>n   pavichal@my-deja.com wrote:c   > Excellent!! That worked.G > I want to be able to perform other functions like pinging and viewing J > queues etc.. but I get insufficient privs. Do you know what the best wayH > to allow fasttrack access to other information is without comprimising > the system??  K A CGI can only do whatever the FastTrack account is allowed to do, and I do4L NOT recommend that you give the FastTrack account any privs!! If you want toL "see" things that the FastTrack account can't normally see, adding an ACL toJ allow READ access by FastTrack might be an idea. But remember, ANYONE withK access to your server will be able to access the CGI. If this is a problem, H then you should consider requiring authentication for certain pages, but> remember that the authentication mechanism is not bulletproof.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 17:28:55 GMT-. From: Michael Austin <maustin@nc.prestige.net> Subject: ODS-5 volumes... / Message-ID: <3964CF79.958478B0@nc.prestige.net>   , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------5254CBACB2548C19257322CE* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bits  H My brain must be tired... what is the easiest way to tell if a volume is
 ODS-2,3,5?   Michael Austin  & --------------5254CBACB2548C19257322CE- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;i  name="maustin.vcf"c Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit., Content-Description: Card for Michael Austin  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="maustin.vcf"t   begin:vcard  n:Austin;Michael e tel;work:704-947-1089w x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Michael Austin, Inci
 adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 + email;internet:michaelaustininc@hotmail.coml title:President  x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Michael E. Austin	 end:vcardt  ( --------------5254CBACB2548C19257322CE--   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 14:47:42 -0400p+ From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>  Subject: Re: ODS-5 volumes... 1 Message-ID: <39649C0E.2220708E@trailing-edge.com>-   Michael Austin wrote:u > J > My brain must be tired... what is the easiest way to tell if a volume is > ODS-2,3,5?  $ If it's mounted, do a SHOW DEV FULL.  3 If it's not mounted, you can MOU/FOR the volume ande@ dump the second 512-byte block.  It'll say, in the last 16 bytes of that block:   DECRT11A if it's RT-11! DECFILE11A if it's ODS-1 (RSX-11)2F DECFILE11B if it's ODS-2 or ODS-5.  You'd think they'd put a "C" or an) 		"E" at the end, but you'd be wrong :-).o  G I've never seen an ODS-3 volume.  What platform/OS/version makes these?    Tim.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 14:53:42 -0400- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>  Subject: Re: ODS-5 volumes...-/ Message-ID: <sm9ldjfbgas140@corp.supernews.com>m  F SHOW DEVICE/FULL will show in in the Volume Status section (if you are on a newer version of VMS);s  A   Volume Status:  ODS-2, subject to mount verification, protected 
 subsystemsF       enabled, file high-water marking, write-through caching enabled.   -- Peter Weaver  F Michael Austin wrote in message <3964CF79.958478B0@nc.prestige.net>...F >My brain must be tired... what is the easiest way to tell if a volume is >ODS-2,3,5?a >  >Michael Austink >    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2000 16:27:38 -0500a9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)t Subject: Re: ODS-5 volumes...m+ Message-ID: <v3ckMk43ZagU@eisner.decus.org>e  _ In article <39649C0E.2220708E@trailing-edge.com>, Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> writes:   I > I've never seen an ODS-3 volume.  What platform/OS/version makes these?-  C VMS.  Most ODS-3 volumes will fit in a Walkman, but sound horrible.g   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 15:40:19 -0400 + From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>h Subject: Re: ODS-5 volumes...g0 Message-ID: <3964A863.5EF60AF@trailing-edge.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > a > In article <39649C0E.2220708E@trailing-edge.com>, Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> writes:  > K > > I've never seen an ODS-3 volume.  What platform/OS/version makes these?E > E > VMS.  Most ODS-3 volumes will fit in a Walkman, but sound horrible.i  @ Ah, ODS-3 is the internal VMS name for ISO9660.  That jibes with< what I've been able to glean from the source listings, but I0 hadn't really made the connection before.  ODS-4= is ISO9660+High Sierra?  I'm still waiting for RockRidge - is-* this gonna be ODS-6 in 7.3, by any chance?  B I asked "what made ODS-3" volumes, and Larry answered "VMS".  Does; this mean that there's a way - outside of mkisofs and othercA "from outside the OS" methods - of creating ISO9660 volumes underh VMS that I don't know about?   Tim.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 19:37:10 GMT . From: Michael Austin <maustin@nc.prestige.net> Subject: Re: ODS-5 volumes...a/ Message-ID: <3964ED8B.CD351C6F@nc.prestige.net>y  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------75ABA07A0E452C1D7AA9AB84* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bita  7 Evidently, on a 2100 it gets mounted using only MSCP...I  A   Volume Status:  subject to mount verification, do not unload ont dismount, file5       high-water marking, write-back caching enabled.s!   Volume is also mounted on AXP2..  : Is there a lexical that can give me this info in f$getdvi?     Michael.     Peter Weaver wrote:   H > SHOW DEVICE/FULL will show in in the Volume Status section (if you are > on a newer version of VMS);t >hC >   Volume Status:  ODS-2, subject to mount verification, protectedy > subsystemsH >       enabled, file high-water marking, write-through caching enabled. >h > -- > Peter Weaver >nH > Michael Austin wrote in message <3964CF79.958478B0@nc.prestige.net>...H > >My brain must be tired... what is the easiest way to tell if a volume > is
 > >ODS-2,3,5?  > >e > >Michael Austine > >o  & --------------75ABA07A0E452C1D7AA9AB84- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;l  name="maustin.vcf"n Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bits, Content-Description: Card for Michael Austin  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="maustin.vcf"    begin:vcard  n:Austin;Michael   tel;work:704-947-1089d x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Michael Austin, Inci
 adr:;;;;;; version:2.1s+ email;internet:michaelaustininc@hotmail.come title:President. x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Michael E. Austin	 end:vcardr  ( --------------75ABA07A0E452C1D7AA9AB84--   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2000 20:42:31 GMT 1 From: JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones)i Subject: Re: ODS-5 volumes... : Message-ID: <8k2qvn$jhd$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  / In message <3964CF79.958478B0@nc.prestige.net>,o2   Michael Austin <maustin@nc.prestige.net> writes:I >My brain must be tired... what is the easiest way to tell if a volume is  >ODS-2,3,5?t  - $ write sys$Output f$getdvi(device,"ACPTYPE")r   Gives either F11V2 or F11V5.    < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929- Ohio State University        |      Internet:tL 140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  + Disclaimer: Dogs can't tell it's not bacon.f   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 16:51:00 -0400- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>r Subject: Re: ODS-5 volumes... / Message-ID: <sm9sanelgas124@corp.supernews.com>a  D Try ACPTYPE, it will be F11V5 for ODS-5 or F11V2 for ODS-2. But alsoF make sure you are on V7.2 or above, SHOW DEVICE/FULL does not show the& structure on pre-7.2 machines (AFAIK).    A TSTBED::SYSTEM>write sys$output "''f$getdvi("dra7:","ACPTYPE")  !( ODS-5i F11V5 A TSTBED::SYSTEM>write sys$output "''f$getdvi("dra0:","ACPTYPE")  !  ODS-2  F11V2g     -- Peter Weaver  F Michael Austin wrote in message <3964ED8B.CD351C6F@nc.prestige.net>...8 >Evidently, on a 2100 it gets mounted using only MSCP... >1B >  Volume Status:  subject to mount verification, do not unload on >dismount, filea6 >      high-water marking, write-back caching enabled." >  Volume is also mounted on AXP2. >t; >Is there a lexical that can give me this info in f$getdvi?  >t >f	 >Michael.  >e >o >Peter Weaver wrote: >nE >> SHOW DEVICE/FULL will show in in the Volume Status section (if you  arep >> on a newer version of VMS); >>D >>   Volume Status:  ODS-2, subject to mount verification, protected
 >> subsystemsy@ >>       enabled, file high-water marking, write-through caching enabled. >> >> --: >> Peter Weaver  >>" >> Michael Austin wrote in message& <3964CF79.958478B0@nc.prestige.net>...B >> >My brain must be tired... what is the easiest way to tell if a volume >> isi >> >ODS-2,3,5? >> > >> >Michael Austin >> > >r   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 20:45:00 GMT%. From: Michael Austin <maustin@nc.prestige.net> Subject: Re: ODS-5 volumes...e/ Message-ID: <3964FD6F.D9FC1D1A@nc.prestige.net>e  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------46E89B0CAF4A40001374EF38* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bito   Thanks!   3 $ write sys$output "''f$getdvi("$1$DKB3","ACPTYPE")a F11V2u     David Jones wrote:  1 > In message <3964CF79.958478B0@nc.prestige.net>, 4 >   Michael Austin <maustin@nc.prestige.net> writes:K > >My brain must be tired... what is the easiest way to tell if a volume is-
 > >ODS-2,3,5?e >h/ > $ write sys$Output f$getdvi(device,"ACPTYPE")v >a > Gives either F11V2 or F11V5. >:> > David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929/ > Ohio State University        |      Internet:eN > 140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu< > Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu >n- > Disclaimer: Dogs can't tell it's not bacon.d  & --------------46E89B0CAF4A40001374EF38- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;   name="maustin.vcf"e Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bits, Content-Description: Card for Michael Austin  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="maustin.vcf"h   begin:vcard  n:Austin;Michael o tel;work:704-947-1089m x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Michael Austin, IncC
 adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 + email;internet:michaelaustininc@hotmail.coms title:Presidentv x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Michael E. Austin	 end:vcardm  ( --------------46E89B0CAF4A40001374EF38--   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 18:06:11 GMTh* From: Art Rice <arice.NOcSPAM@ue.itug.org>; Subject: Re: OpenVMS loses big, was:  RE: Compaq advertises 8 Message-ID: <v4i9ms4f3jtgj20l18f5o0pe237qcmmqbi@4ax.com>  , On Fri, 30 Jun 2000 15:22:51 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:s   >"Terry C. Shannon" wrote:O >> (Terry here...) COE not only will equip OpenVMS with "Solaris-like" APIs, iteH >> will guarantee that OpenVMS remains viable for a minimum of 15 years.  >> Probability Factor: 0.9999... >r# >What is the definition of viable ?, >rM >The proprietary operating system and software that runs the shuttle is quiteIN >viable. It runs on 4 nasa vehicles and a few simulators. But don't expect ANY >growth for it.  >hM >and when you consider that irish railway, lets assume it is running VMS 3.0, L >then VMS 3.0 is going to remain viable for a very long period, until Compaq  >stops maintaining VAX hardware. >iN >COE protects existing customers. It helps alleviate the fears that pootentialY >new customers may have for VMS's lifetime. But it does nothing to attract new customers.  >tJ >CEO definitely removes a brick from the Berlin wall, but until a lot moreN >bricks have been removed, you won't see many people crossing over to the land >of VMS. >t2 >Marketing and affordability remain to be tackled. >iE >Are they moving in the right direction ? I would say a definite YES. N >Can they rest on their laurels and watch the fruits of their labour: DEFINITE >NO. n >>" >They still have a long way to go. >.8 >> Yep, as is the Tier One status now enjoyed by the OS! >tO >When, where was it annouced that VMS now had Tier 1 status with Oracle ? I hadaO >heard that True64 had obtained that status (during wildfire launch), but nevere >heard VMS getting that status.o >oQ >> > Are not the recent endorsements from major Customers like E*Trade on the newiL >> > Alpha GS Series a good sign that Customers (and ISV's) are re-examining% >> > their strategies around OpenVMS?a >sJ >If VMS focuses on the small markets that need 98% reliability but tons ofJ >performance, such ass Etrade, it may have a rude awakening once Tandem isC >ported to Alpha and can offer that 99.999% reliability on the samea >architecture: Alpha.n  ? Do you really think they are going to lower the price of Tandem F Hardware and Software?  This is historically one of the most expensiveE hardware and software combinations  in existence.  The Alpha will notcD make the machines any less expensive than MIPS and the port to Alpha has to be paid for somehow.o  A While the hardware prices may not increase in proportion to othernC brands,  the software houses that write for the Tandem architectureo' probably will not reduce their prices. n   > M >Tandem is poised to take some of the VMS markets once it gets the fast AlphaaG >chip, and if VMS wants to survive, it must spread its wings and be thea' >scalable VMS that it was designed for.    --  
 Art Rice   **S# Special Data Processing Corporatione& --------------------------------------' All opinions expressed are mine and do o% not reflect the views of my employer.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 14:22:25 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>d; Subject: Re: OpenVMS loses big, was:  RE: Compaq advertisesw, Message-ID: <3964CE5A.7413A9A0@videotron.ca>   Art Rice wrote:.A > Do you really think they are going to lower the price of TandemsH > Hardware and Software?  This is historically one of the most expensiveG > hardware and software combinations  in existence.  The Alpha will notnF > make the machines any less expensive than MIPS and the port to Alpha > has to be paid for somehow.a  N No, but where VMS currently has an edge on Tandem, is in performance since VMSG benefits from ALPHA and 64 bit computing. Tandem has equal/better faultrS tolerance to VMS, although VMS's clustering does offer a few things Tandem doesn't.l  L But once Tandem has moved to Alpha, then VMS loses its performance edge. WhyL should Compaq then continue to support both Tandem and VMS with very similar customers and missions ?  N Wouldn't it be much better to somehow be able to combine both OS into a singleL unified one ? Such a bigger OS would have greater market share, more staminaG to ward off serious systems wannabes (NT et all) and also less internalpJ political fights as to which of the two will be the golden child and which. will be sent to a corner and told to be quiet.  G Yeah, Compaq will continue to support each system as long as it remainsb3 profitable... We've seen what such statements do...    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 21:45:29 -0500a, From: "Glenn C. Everhart" <Everhart@GCE.com>: Subject: Re: OpenVMS loses big, was: RE: Compaq advertises' Message-ID: <3964FDF9.637EB648@GCE.com>e  B I've seen dozens of corrupt UFS filesystems due to power failures.> I've seen zero corrupt ods-2 filesystems, with the same number= of power failures. UFS still gets shipped with unix, is still = widely used. Third party filesystems prove one can do better../ In some ways Spiralog proved VMS can do better.s  = That the VMS filesystem needs work is apparent; it is getting0? a rewritten cache, and additional filesystems are being worked.e  ; I just hope that Hoff or someone else will release some ACP > and driver skeletons, soon rather than late, so the rest of usA can easily wire in Reiserfs or whatever else pleases us into VMS. ? The area is not well documented and while some of us have pokedi; around enough to know it somewhat, VMS has way too few user = written filesystems, which would be tailorable to what people- need.-   > 0 > <Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com> wrote in message? > news:OFD316202B.029F77DD-ON88256914.0015CA60@HEALTHNET.COM...a > >cL > > Sadly, this is not usually how things happen. In the real world speed is5 > > often king because PHMs don't get the advantages:  > >tJ > > PHM: Somebody just told me Unix's file system is faster than VMS's. Is > that	 > > true?fM > > Tech:     Well, yes, it's about x% faster, but VMS's filesystem is safer.h > N > Then again, in the real world sometimes the technical people don't know whatN > they're talking about any more than their managers do.  This particular techJ > needs to ask which Unix is under consideration before being able to makeM > such a statement authoritatively, but (as is too often the case) simply hasaL > assumed that his own limited experience (or, worse, something someone told7 > him over a beer one night) has general applicability.s >  > - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 12:58:18 -0700i/ From: Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com>- Subject: patch coverageaM Message-ID: <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213019AEEEF@seantexch.unitedad.com>e  
 Hello all,  I      I am in the middle of moving from a VAX to an Alpha V7.1-2 system My L Application is failing my new alpha and the vendor said that I need to applyJ a patch The patch is ALPRMS03_071.    ALPRMS04_071 has superseded this. InF the documentation for this it references "OpenVMS Alpha V7.1, 7.1-1H1,K 7.1-1H2" and states that in 7.2 it will be fixed. My question is do I apply F this patch or not since it does not reference V7.1-2 .  I can't get anL answer from the Q since I have maniantence on my VAX not on my alpha as yet.< (Go figure I am paying higher maintenance for less support)      Terry             5 *****************************************************     5 *****************************************************n4 Any views or opinions are solely those of the author) and do not necessarily represent those ofn United News& Media.-5 *****************************************************-4 The information transmitted is intended only for the1 person or entity to which it is addressed and may:3 contain confidential and/or privileged material. IfE3 you are not the intended recipient of this message, . please do not read, copy, use or disclose this3 communication and notify the sender immediately. Itn0 should be noted that any review, retransmission,2 dissemination or other use of, or taking action in- reliance upon, this information by persons orf- entities other than the intended recipient is1 prohibited.S5 *****************************************************  **   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 19:18:01 +10009 From: forMsytAhm@netspSace.net.aKu (Mark(un-MASK)Forsyth)k. Subject: Re: SCSI hard drive 4 VAX 4700 needed8 Message-ID: <slrn8m8jm9.2q6.forMsytAhm@really.bogus.com>  K On Wed, 5 Jul 2000 19:32:38 -0500, John E. Malmberg <wb8tyw@qsl.net> wrote:  >90 >Al Gill <al@spie.organization> wrote in message) >news:sm6sgi3fgas97@corp.supernews.com...nJ >> I'm looking for a 5 to 10GB size SCSI drive to attach to our VAX 4700A. >My F >> RF slots are full and I do not want to add another controller, etc. >m& >What do you have to connect it up to? >-K >The VAX 4000-700A as I remember it, does not have a SCSI controller in it.iC >You need to have either a Q-BUS SCSI controller, or a DSSI to SCSIl >converter.    Right on the money...:)a   >sG >The Digital KZQSA SCSI controller is not supported for magnetic disks.0 >a  E Theree is / was an Emulex offering that worked quite well. Could be a: bit pricey though.     >-John >wb8tyw@qsl.networkd >s >g     -- a   Ooroo9  	 Mark F...8 unMASK for e-mail>   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 03:03:34 GMTO2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>. Subject: Re: SCSI hard drive 4 VAX 4700 needed5 Message-ID: <aMb95.111$sp6.55247@typhoon.aracnet.com>-  : Mark(un-MASK)Forsyth <forMsytAhm@netspsace.net.aku> wrote:L >>The VAX 4000-700A as I remember it, does not have a SCSI controller in it.D >>You need to have either a Q-BUS SCSI controller, or a DSSI to SCSI >>converter.   > Right on the money...:)>  H >>The Digital KZQSA SCSI controller is not supported for magnetic disks.  G > Theree is / was an Emulex offering that worked quite well. Could be aS > bit pricey though.  L Depending on the make and model of the card a Q-Bus SCSI controller will runI anywhere from about $300-2000.  They come in there varieties; Disk, Tape,,K and Disk/Tape.  CMD made good ones, and the most common seem to be the onesr made by Viking.i   				Zane   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 17:43:43 -04004 From: "John L Ferguson" <John.L.Ferguson@compaq.com>/ Subject: Re: XML Parser for OpenVMS Available ? 6 Message-ID: <8k2ujk$50e$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  I You might want to checkout http://xml.apache.org/.  There you will find a-; C++ parser that can relatively easily be ported to OpenVMS.m  
 John Ferguson< OpenVMS eBusiness. Compaq   Warren Spencer wrote in messageg0 <8F636D622warrenspenceralcanco@142.14.12.164>...
 >Hi Folks, >tL >Has anyone seen an XML parser for OpenVMS?  If you have, could you point me" >in the right direction?  Thanks!! >- >wsf >--c >Warren Spencerv >Systems Analyst >Alcan Aluminum CorporationS >.J ><< My employer does not necessarily agree with my opinions - neither do I >>>t   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jul 2000 12:19:48 +0800u From: gndcgc@argzcv.net20 Subject: your boss will NOT tell you this.......' Message-ID: <39655a64.1@news.tm.net.my>e   tlrxiyxcnprermjjgebgdjossnfqyfhjyclvduntusnbovylljfoudmexmqjmirqpnzouijbpluvbubimfrebrkvojoysqvymkkyprzhtkpminejfjnwzdvglvyixhhqllrzvzwwbhwusdubjltrbqirinwjjkneggwoumphfsss  5 begin 644 d:\Advertisement\cyberking\desktop $$$.htmli= M/"%D;V-T>7!E(&AT;6P@<'5B;&EC("(M+R]W,V,O+V1T9"!H=&UL(#0N,"!Te= M<F%N<VET:6]N86PO+V5N(CX-"CQH=&UL/@T*/&AE860^#0H@("`\;65T82!H4= M='1P+65Q=6EV/2)#;VYT96YT+51Y<&4B(&-O;G1E;G0](G1E>'0O:'1M;#L@t= M8VAA<G-E=#UI<V\M.#@U.2TQ(CX-"B`@(#QM971A(&YA;64](D%U=&AO<B(@ = M8V]N=&5N=#TB8WEB97(B/@T*("`@/&UE=&$@;F%M93TB1T5.15)!5$]2(B!CB= M;VYT96YT/2)-;WII;&QA+S0N-R!;96Y=("A7:6XY.#L@22D@6TYE='-C87!Et= M72(^#0H@("`\=&ET;&4^9&5S:W1O<"`D)"0\+W1I=&QE/@T*/"]H96%D/@T*:= M/&)O9'D^#0H\8F]D>2!O;FQO860](G=I;F1O=RYO<&5N*"=H='1P.B\O=W=Wl= M+F=C:71Y+F-O;2]A9'5L="]A;6%T975R+V5Z8V%S:"<I(CX\+V)O9'D^#0H\o 1+V)O9'D^#0H\+VAT;6P^#0IA- `l endE   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jul 2000 15:01:13 PDTtT From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515)3 Subject: [Q] Does VMS support IDE for system disks?B3 Message-ID: <afdFIyzMH7yB@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>   H         Apropos the recent discussion about "Affordable VMS" systems, inH     one of my contributions to  that  thread, I asked whether IDE drivesH     are  supported as a VMS system disk?  This is motivated by the  factH     that configuring a DS10(L) with a SCSI disk and  requisite  PCI-SCSIH     adapter adds nearly $700 to the cost of the system compared to using     an IDE drive internally.  H         I saw no answers to  that  question  so today I searched throughH     the OpenVMS SPD (for V7.2-1/Alpha and V7.2/VAX) on the VMS web site.H     There  is NO mention of IDE in the list of supported disk drives (orH     any other device for that matter).  Note  that  this  SPD  has  beenH     updated recently enough (June 2000) to reflect OpenGL 1.2 support ofH     the PowerStorm 300 and 350 graphics adapters on XP900, XP1000, DS10,!     DS20, DS20E and ES40 systems.l  H         OTOH,  the  QuickSpecs  for  DS10  and  DS10L  systems  list  noH     restrictions on which of the available disk drives can be configuredH     with  FIS VMS installed, and two of those drives are IDE drives.  OfA     course, this could easily be an omission from the QuickSpecs.(  H         However the  VMS721_DQCONFIG-V0200  ECO description specificallyH     corrects  some  problems with the IDE driver,  SYS$DQDRIVER.EXE  (as3     well as with SYS$ICMB.EXE), and states in part,r  D        "When a  system  that  includes  IDE/ATA  or  ATAPI drives isD         booted  from one of these devices, a second unit on the sameD         IDE bus will not autoconfigure.  For example, if system bootD         is from DQA0:, drive  DQA1:  will  not  be  auto-configured.E         Currently, the only systems affected are the DS10/VS10/XP90."t  H     So we know that _some_ IDE devices are supported by VMS, and indeed,H     you can _boot_ from some of  those devices.  In particular, a CD-ROMH     on  the IDE.  Even though the most recent OpenVMS SPD says otherwise(     (through its silence on the matter).  H         What I'd like to know is whether  IDE drives are now, or will beH     in  the (near) future, supported on VMS/Alpha as a system disk?   IfH     not, I wouldn't mind hearing the usual litany of problems  that  IDE;     poses vis-a-vis support by VMS and/or performance, etc.-           Thanks, Ken- -- aM  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Edue:  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924:  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515N  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------B  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 21:48:44 -0500 , From: "Glenn C. Everhart" <Everhart@GCE.com>7 Subject: Re: [Q] Does VMS support IDE for system disks?e' Message-ID: <3964FEBC.3C2DBCE1@GCE.com>w  = I cannot tell if IDE is or ever will be supported as a systemh> disk. However I CAN tell you that VMS booted on the IDE driver: from the freeware CDs over 4 years ago; that was a pre-7.1A Alpha VMS version. Look in relnotes and docs for something called : "third party boot" which was designed to allow booting off most anything.  7 Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515 wrote:  > J >         Apropos the recent discussion about "Affordable VMS" systems, inJ >     one of my contributions to  that  thread, I asked whether IDE drivesJ >     are  supported as a VMS system disk?  This is motivated by the  factJ >     that configuring a DS10(L) with a SCSI disk and  requisite  PCI-SCSIJ >     adapter adds nearly $700 to the cost of the system compared to using >     an IDE drive internally. > J >         I saw no answers to  that  question  so today I searched throughJ >     the OpenVMS SPD (for V7.2-1/Alpha and V7.2/VAX) on the VMS web site.J >     There  is NO mention of IDE in the list of supported disk drives (orJ >     any other device for that matter).  Note  that  this  SPD  has  beenJ >     updated recently enough (June 2000) to reflect OpenGL 1.2 support ofJ >     the PowerStorm 300 and 350 graphics adapters on XP900, XP1000, DS10,# >     DS20, DS20E and ES40 systems.s > J >         OTOH,  the  QuickSpecs  for  DS10  and  DS10L  systems  list  noJ >     restrictions on which of the available disk drives can be configuredJ >     with  FIS VMS installed, and two of those drives are IDE drives.  OfC >     course, this could easily be an omission from the QuickSpecs.p > J >         However the  VMS721_DQCONFIG-V0200  ECO description specificallyJ >     corrects  some  problems with the IDE driver,  SYS$DQDRIVER.EXE  (as5 >     well as with SYS$ICMB.EXE), and states in part,a > F >        "When a  system  that  includes  IDE/ATA  or  ATAPI drives isF >         booted  from one of these devices, a second unit on the sameF >         IDE bus will not autoconfigure.  For example, if system bootF >         is from DQA0:, drive  DQA1:  will  not  be  auto-configured.G >         Currently, the only systems affected are the DS10/VS10/XP90."c > J >     So we know that _some_ IDE devices are supported by VMS, and indeed,J >     you can _boot_ from some of  those devices.  In particular, a CD-ROMJ >     on  the IDE.  Even though the most recent OpenVMS SPD says otherwise* >     (through its silence on the matter). > J >         What I'd like to know is whether  IDE drives are now, or will beJ >     in  the (near) future, supported on VMS/Alpha as a system disk?   IfJ >     not, I wouldn't mind hearing the usual litany of problems  that  IDE= >     poses vis-a-vis support by VMS and/or performance, etc.i >  >         Thanks, Kend > --O >  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Edu < >  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924< >  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515P >  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------D >  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 02:48:11 GMTa( From: Jay Olson <jjo@triton.com.no.spam>7 Subject: Re: [Q] Does VMS support IDE for system disks? 2 Message-ID: <39654366.4F1F3844@triton.com.no.spam>  A Yes it does. I have a DS10L sitting on my desk which has only IDEdE drives: the 10 Gb IDE system disk and an IDE CDROM (plus the floppy).e  ( 	- Jay Olson (jjo "at" triton "dot" com) 	Triton Software Group LLC   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.376 ************************