1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 11 Jul 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 385       Contents: Building TK50's  Re: Building TK50's  Re: Building TK50's  Re: Building TK50's   Re: Charon-VAX Hobbyist Question DECnet login w/ ext. auth.+ Re: Direct OPCOM messages to e-mail account + Re: Direct OPCOM messages to e-mail account + RE: Direct OPCOM messages to e-mail account + RE: Direct OPCOM messages to e-mail account + RE: Direct OPCOM messages to e-mail account + RE: Direct OPCOM messages to e-mail account + RE: Direct OPCOM messages to e-mail account / Re: RE: Direct OPCOM messages to e-mail account  Re: error parsing 'snapshot'% Re: FTP from VMS via Firewall problem  Hobbyist TCP IP licenses ? Re: Hobbyist TCP IP licenses ? Re: Hobbyist TCP IP licenses ?= How I Went From Dead Broke To Earning $4,659.00 in Seven Days : In praise of Kermit (was Re: Charon-VAX Hobbyist Question)5 Invalid RFA error trying to extract help library file 4 Re: Looking for VMS source code (any version really)4 Re: Looking for VMS source code (any version really)4 Re: Looking for VMS source code (any version really)4 Re: Looking for VMS source code (any version really)4 Re: Looking for VMS source code (any version really)4 Re: Looking for VMS source code (any version really)4 Re: Looking for VMS source code (any version really)4 Re: Looking for VMS source code (any version really)4 Re: Looking for VMS source code (any version really)4 Re: Looking for VMS source code (any version really)4 Re: Looking for VMS source code (any version really)4 Re: Looking for VMS source code (any version really) mime Re: mime Re: mime$ Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?)$ Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?)$ Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?)( Re: Netscape Fasttrack for OpenVMS 7.2-1( Re: Netscape Fasttrack for OpenVMS 7.2-1( Re: Netscape Fasttrack for OpenVMS 7.2-1( Re: Netscape Fasttrack for OpenVMS 7.2-1) Re: Open-source Database system available ) Re: Open-source Database system available ) Re: Open-source Database system available ) Re: Open-source Database system available . Re: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clusters2 Re: OpenVMS loses big, was:  RE: Compaq advertises- PK2K & Vs2000 EPROM patches, in the year 2000 $ Re: print/delete does not behave ...$ Re: print/delete dows not behave ...$ Re: print/delete dows not behave ...$ RE: print/delete dows not behave ...$ Re: print/delete dows not behave ...$ Re: print/delete dows not behave ...$ Re: print/delete dows not behave ...$ Re: print/delete dows not behave ...$ Re: print/delete dows not behave ...$ Re: print/delete dows not behave ... Support  Re: Support H Re: UNICENTER PERFORMANCE DATA COLLECTOR - DOES NOT INSTALL ON VMS 7.2!!H Re: UNICENTER PERFORMANCE DATA COLLECTOR - DOES NOT INSTALL ON VMS 7.2!! Re: Vax in Canada ?  Re: VAXstation 3100 won't boot VMS in practice  Re: VMS in practice  Re: VMS in practice  Re: VMS in practice ' Re: VMS Junior Sys Admin, Bracknell, UK  Re: VMS Prior Version Support  Re: WTB: Microvax2000  Re: WTB: Microvax2000  Re: WTB: Microvax2000 . Re: [Q] Does VMS support IDE for system disks?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 11 Jul 2000 14:24:19 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Building TK50's, Message-ID: <8kfamj$27u6$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  G Can anyone tell me how I can take the stuff on a the OpenVMS-7.1 CD and H make a TK50 that can install 7.1 on a MicroVAX with no access to a CDROMJ drive??  I would really like to run something a little newer than MicroVMS 4.4!!    Thanks.    bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jul 2000 15:56:37 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: Building TK50's6 Message-ID: <8kfg3l$d1p$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  ` In article <8kfamj$27u6$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:H :Can anyone tell me how I can take the stuff on a the OpenVMS-7.1 CD andI :make a TK50 that can install 7.1 on a MicroVAX with no access to a CDROM K :drive??  I would really like to run something a little newer than MicroVMS  :4.4!!     Which specific MicroVAX?  C   Do you have a spare disk (or a disk you can temporarily off-load) :   connected on the MicroVAX, of 600 MB capacity or larger?  9   Which specific system disk do you have on the MicroVAX?   =   Do you have a network between the MicroVAX and another VAX?   F   Do you have another OpenVMS VAX system running a more recent version4   of OpenVMS (eg: V5.5-2 or later, with BACKUP ECO)?  H   Do you have a CD-ROM drive that you can relocate over to the MicroVAX,E   or a disk you can relocate from the MicroVAX to another VAX system?   G   The usual approach involves building a standalone BACKUP kit onto the D   TK50 cassette, then relocating the VMS*.% and DECW*.% savesets out   onto the media.   F   I will assume that you are aware that no direct upgrade from V4.4 toE   V7.1 or V7.2 is possible -- multiple stops will be required, or you J   could simply install V7.1 or V7.2.  See the OpenVMS FAQ for the upgrade F   paths.  (Though I don't believe the upgrade paths prior to V5.0 are H   included in the FAQ -- IIRC, you had to upgrade from V4.4 to V4.6 and F   then to V5.0, then you're onto the upgrade chart listing in the FAQ.   Or reinstall, of course.)   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jul 2000 16:45:30 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: Building TK50's, Message-ID: <8kfiva$2cla$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  6 In article <8kfg3l$d1p$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>,5  hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  |>  c |> In article <8kfamj$27u6$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: K |> :Can anyone tell me how I can take the stuff on a the OpenVMS-7.1 CD and L |> :make a TK50 that can install 7.1 on a MicroVAX with no access to a CDROMN |> :drive??  I would really like to run something a little newer than MicroVMS	 |> :4.4!!  |>   |>   Which specific MicroVAX?    A pair of MicroVAX-II (KA630) 1 One with 16M of memory and one with 9M of memory.    |>  F |>   Do you have a spare disk (or a disk you can temporarily off-load)= |>   connected on the MicroVAX, of 600 MB capacity or larger?   A 600 megabytes on a MicroVAX, now there's and interesting concept. A I suppose by shifting controllers back and forth I could probably  come up with an RA82.    |>  < |>   Which specific system disk do you have on the MicroVAX?  B Right now, I have RD54's for both of them.  Kind of hoping I could) get some SMD disks working at some point.    |>  @ |>   Do you have a network between the MicroVAX and another VAX?  B let's start this with a description of just what I have and what I am trying to do.    C I have a VAX 4000-100 (with a QBUS expansion box) running OVMS-7.1. D I have a pair of MicroVAX-II's one is currently running MicroVMS-4.4C and the other is currently parts in a box hopefully soon to be made ! into a functioning MicroVAX-II.     E The 4000 has SCSI and thus CDROM's.  The running MicroVAX has a TK50. E It also has DECNET so communications between the two running machines D is possible.  I have another MicroVAX (not running VMS) that I couldD borrow an RA82 and a KDA50 from if that is the only practical way toE do this, but I was hoping there was a simple (relatively) way to make : install tapes for VMS and for selected Layered Products.     |>  I |>   Do you have another OpenVMS VAX system running a more recent version 7 |>   of OpenVMS (eg: V5.5-2 or later, with BACKUP ECO)?   I As above, the big problem being as they stand now, none of these machines  share any common media.    |>  K |>   Do you have a CD-ROM drive that you can relocate over to the MicroVAX, H |>   or a disk you can relocate from the MicroVAX to another VAX system?  H No to the first, but the second seems likely assuming KDA50's and RA82's are still supported in 7.1.    |>  J |>   The usual approach involves building a standalone BACKUP kit onto theG |>   TK50 cassette, then relocating the VMS*.% and DECW*.% savesets out  |>   onto the media.  H That sounds simple enough, but I wasn't sure if there was something lessM obvious that I was unaware of.  You mention DECW*.%.  Isn't that DECWindows?? L Is that needed for a box that has no graphics capability??  Would DECWindowsI even run (even remotely to an Xterminal) on machines with so little RAM??    |>  I |>   I will assume that you are aware that no direct upgrade from V4.4 to H |>   V7.1 or V7.2 is possible -- multiple stops will be required, or youM |>   could simply install V7.1 or V7.2.  See the OpenVMS FAQ for the upgrade  I |>   paths.  (Though I don't believe the upgrade paths prior to V5.0 are  K |>   included in the FAQ -- IIRC, you had to upgrade from V4.4 to V4.6 and  I |>   then to V5.0, then you're onto the upgrade chart listing in the FAQ.  |>   Or reinstall, of course.) |>    I I wasn't assuming any upgrades.  The one running MicroVAX has nothing but H the base OS on it right now.  4.4 was the only thing I had on TK50, so II installed it to see if it would still work.  Fresh installs of 7.1 are my G targets.  I am sure I will end out doing it a few times before I have a I functioning system.  I would imagine that I am going to have to find some K kind of larger disks before I will be able to use the machines for anything  other than warming up a room.   & I appreciate any help you can provide.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 13:26:36 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: Building TK50's, Message-ID: <396B58C3.56F5CAFA@videotron.ca>   Bill Gunshannon wrote:K > As above, the big problem being as they stand now, none of these machines  > share any common media.   L If you have ethernet, you might consider clustering them to the real VAX andI use the real VAX's drives as source of the installation kits (or copy the  stuff over).  K If you boot the MVII as a satellite, then you can erase the MVII's disk and K start from scratch a new install (instead of upgrading all the way, step by  step).    M And once you got saveset B on the MVII, you probably have enough resources to L boot standalone, but in the cluster, which means that you can mount from the; MVII, the CDrom on the 4000, and continue the installation.   M You will have to tweak the first boot though. After installing saveset B, the N microvax will boot with the VMS install procedure, so you must first boot intoK sysboot, change the startup to OPA0:, then configure the machine to boot as L part of the cluster (allocation class etc), then set the startup back to theL original and reboot. The installation procedure will ask you where you mediaK is located, and just specify the CDROM drive on the 4000 which will then be 0 mounted. (remember to specify allocation class).  J If you have greater disk capacity on the MVII, you could copy the savesets( over to the MVII and install from there.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:25:21 +0100 $ From: Andy Burns <andy@burns.uk.net>) Subject: Re: Charon-VAX Hobbyist Question 8 Message-ID: <0dmlmsgo9outstq1kgbaa124pomdri4f1q@4ax.com>   Timothy Stark wrote:    I >Good news! I resolved the overrun problems when I increased to 2064 from J >78 and 200 in TTY variables per kermit VMS installation instructions.  (I@ >forget whose names, sorry.)  Good job, Frank the kermit author.  J nice to know it works, but did you see my posting about VAXFT.ZIP which isH available in the same charon download directory, seems to allow the hostG NT machine to access the FILES-11 directories inside the disk container  files      --  
 Andy Burns   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jul 2000 17:21:48 GMT6 From: DAVISM@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (Michael T. Davis)# Subject: DECnet login w/ ext. auth. : Message-ID: <8kfl3c$mth$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  E 	We are running Advanced Server 7.2a under OpenVMS 7.2-1 on an Alpha. K Most of our users' accounts are configured with external authentication.  I N would like to use a DECnet (Phase IV) object running under a user's account toL perform various tasks on the account, but authenticating the user via DECnetN seems to be a problem.  Say I have a DECnet object defined such that access to- it will require a username and password, i.e.   9                        NODE"username password"::"MYTASK="   M Using this syntax with an account that is externally authenticated results in > the following error (using a DCL OPEN statement, for example):  H %DCL-E-OPENIN, error opening NODE"username password"::"MYTASK=" as input" -RMS-E-ACC, ACP file access failed< -SYSTEM-F-INVLOGIN, login information invalid at remote node  O Is there something we can do to fix this, or is this due to a deficiency in the - current implementation of VMS authentication?    Thanks,   Mike  --K              Michael T. Davis              |    Systems Specialist: ChE,MSE N   E-mail: davism@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu    | Departmental Networking/ComputingJ            -or- DAVISM+@osu.edu            |     The Ohio State UniversityJ http://www.er6.eng.ohio-state.edu/~davism/ |     197 Watts, (614) 292-6928   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 02:30:25 -0700 5 From: Richard  <maher_rjNOmaSPAM@hotmail.com.invalid> 4 Subject: Re: Direct OPCOM messages to e-mail account9 Message-ID: <1887a3ee.658ec829@usw-ex0110-076.remarq.com>    Hi,   ; If it's only cluster state transitions that your interested 5 in then you may want to look at the $setcluevt system 7 service. I know it requires 3GL code but not that much.   ; (Ok, you probably have to follow it up with a $getsyiw loop : to work out what's happened and a call to the pager RTL or5 a call to lib$set_symbol if your pager uses DCL as an 
 interface)  9 If you have a COBOL compiler then I'll knock something up  for you.   Regards Richard Maher.     * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:01:19 GMT % From: "Joseph Gill" <gilljb@home.com> 4 Subject: Re: Direct OPCOM messages to e-mail account; Message-ID: <38Da5.39894$A%3.551954@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com>   E There is a DSNlink article in the DEC-TCPIP database that talks about J re-directing OPCOM messages.  This may work out for a system that is stillJ available but if you have a standalone system that goes down OPCOM will go8 down too.  For this we use a PING test from other nodes.  L Saiga Systems, the makers of HITMAN have a product called TRACE that "Traps,; filters and takes action on console messages".  They are at  http://www.saiga.com/   H BMC Software has two products, PATROL (the client side) and Command Post: (the server side).  http://www.bmc.com/patrol/servers.html     Joe   ? "Carleen Nutter" <Carleen.Nutter@hsc.utah.edu> wrote in message ( news:s969f8a1.061@gwmail.med.utah.edu...J I have an almost lights-out data center.   The personel in the data center are not real operators, but J help desk people.  They generally dont notice when one of my alphas leaves the cluster.  I would A like to be paged.  I'd like a way of having select OPCOM messages - (e.g.,cluster state transition) to my pager's # internet e-mail address (via SMTP).   I Has anyone done something like this? and be willing to give me some help?   H I have a 3-node alpha (4000's) cluster, running VMS 7.1-1h2 and Multinet 4.1B for TCP/IP services. 4 The only programming I've done in years is with DCL.   TIA,	 CJ Nutter    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 08:30:56 -030001 From: "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com>g4 Subject: RE: Direct OPCOM messages to e-mail accountK Message-ID: <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A33362B@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>a  4 > From: 	David Bodey[SMTP:bodey.david.dj@bhp.com.au] > F > However, it would be a lot simpler to get a proper system monitoring; > tool like CA Unicenter for OpenVMS, Heroix's Robomon etc.  > G > OR, use your DCL skills and write a monitoring script to monitor your C > cluser state (f$getsyi) and other essential resources like systemtH > processes (f$getjpi) , disks, free space (f$getdvi), queues (f$getqui) > etc. >  > L I would go with the Heroix solution or similar, monitoring cluster states inL a 3 node cluster could have adverse effects such that you will not be mailedL until the state transition completes, also depending on your vote scheme youG may lose quorum and not get mailed at all.  For cluster states take the % monitoring off of the cluster itself.o - Darren    F **********************************************************************C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and J may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.M They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom theyaL are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copying  of this message is prohibited.   Bank of Bermuda)F **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:44:22 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)r4 Subject: RE: Direct OPCOM messages to e-mail account0 Message-ID: <009ECE94.4AEBFF37@SendSpamHere.ORG>   In article <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A33362B@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>, "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com> writes: 5 >> From: 	David Bodey[SMTP:bodey.david.dj@bhp.com.au]s >> vG >> However, it would be a lot simpler to get a proper system monitorings< >> tool like CA Unicenter for OpenVMS, Heroix's Robomon etc. >> eH >> OR, use your DCL skills and write a monitoring script to monitor yourD >> cluser state (f$getsyi) and other essential resources like systemI >> processes (f$getjpi) , disks, free space (f$getdvi), queues (f$getqui)n >> etc.d >> o >> aM >I would go with the Heroix solution or similar, monitoring cluster states in.M >a 3 node cluster could have adverse effects such that you will not be mailed M >until the state transition completes, also depending on your vote scheme youRH >may lose quorum and not get mailed at all.  For cluster states take the& >monitoring off of the cluster itself.	 >- Darren   D I'm not familiar with the "Heroix solution" so can you explain to meC how the cluster state transmission problems you've cited as affect-eD ing the ability to receive mail do not affect the "Heroix solution".     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:23:42 -0300l1 From: "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com>B4 Subject: RE: Direct OPCOM messages to e-mail accountK Message-ID: <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A333630@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>    Brian,  A 	The Heroix solution is a set of VMS based rules (DTCS - Disaster I Tolerant Cluster Services) to monitor free disk space, missing processes, L memory errors etc.  It also comes with the Heroix Robomon products which runL on an NT box with IP connections through the DECServer to the Serial consoleJ ports, the console output is then captured from these ports and the NT box does the monitoring / mailing.  K Check out DTCS from the Compaq web site or mail DTCS-SUPPORT@COMPAQ.COM forTF more information.  DTCS is a whole suite of products incorporating the/ Heroix software RoboMon, RoboEDA & RoboCentral.m Thanks,a Darren   > ----------> > From: 	system@SendSpamHere.ORG[SMTP:system@SendSpamHere.ORG]$ > Reply To: 	system@SendSpamHere.ORG' > Sent: 	Tuesday, July 11, 2000 8:44 AMM > To: 	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com7 > Subject: 	RE: Direct OPCOM messages to e-mail account  >  > In articleJ > <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A33362B@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>, "Boyle,- > Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com> writes: 7 > >> From: 	David Bodey[SMTP:bodey.david.dj@bhp.com.au]e > >> eI > >> However, it would be a lot simpler to get a proper system monitoring > > >> tool like CA Unicenter for OpenVMS, Heroix's Robomon etc. > >> VJ > >> OR, use your DCL skills and write a monitoring script to monitor yourF > >> cluser state (f$getsyi) and other essential resources like systemK > >> processes (f$getjpi) , disks, free space (f$getdvi), queues (f$getqui) 	 > >> etc.  > >>   > >> eL > >I would go with the Heroix solution or similar, monitoring cluster states > inH > >a 3 node cluster could have adverse effects such that you will not be > mailedK > >until the state transition completes, also depending on your vote schemee > youoJ > >may lose quorum and not get mailed at all.  For cluster states take the( > >monitoring off of the cluster itself. > >- Darrenr > F > I'm not familiar with the "Heroix solution" so can you explain to meE > how the cluster state transmission problems you've cited as affect-,F > ing the ability to receive mail do not affect the "Heroix solution". >  >  > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 > VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >     F **********************************************************************C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and-J may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.M They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom theyvL are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copying  of this message is prohibited.   Bank of BermudahF **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 16:39:23 GMTI= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)S4 Subject: RE: Direct OPCOM messages to e-mail account0 Message-ID: <009ECEBD.81258D12@SendSpamHere.ORG>   In article <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A333630@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>, "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com> writes:  >Brian,V > B >	The Heroix solution is a set of VMS based rules (DTCS - DisasterJ >Tolerant Cluster Services) to monitor free disk space, missing processes,M >memory errors etc.  It also comes with the Heroix Robomon products which runyM >on an NT box with IP connections through the DECServer to the Serial consoletK >ports, the console output is then captured from these ports and the NT box> >does the monitoring / mailing.t  H If there's a cluster transition, how does a PeeCee know that the clusterG is transitioning as opposed to someone just tripped over the network or 9 a power cable to something in between PeeCee and cluster?i  H In my experience, and the testament of many posting here, the cluster isH likely to significantly over-shadow uptime (by several magnitide) of the	 NT box.      --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 14:07:26 -0300 1 From: "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com>d4 Subject: RE: Direct OPCOM messages to e-mail accountK Message-ID: <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A333643@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>a  > > From: 	system@SendSpamHere.ORG[SMTP:system@SendSpamHere.ORG] > J > If there's a cluster transition, how does a PeeCee know that the clusterI > is transitioning as opposed to someone just tripped over the network oro; > a power cable to something in between PeeCee and cluster?c > I The PC detects the "Blocking Activity" of a quorum hang or the "ProposingyH reconfiguration" of a state transition messages displayed on the console through the serial connection.  J > In my experience, and the testament of many posting here, the cluster isJ > likely to significantly over-shadow uptime (by several magnitide) of the > NT box.  t > J Oh Yes, I couldn't agree more, the Heroix services or OMS stations work inJ the same way as the old BRS systems in that if one goes away the secondaryL one takes the console connection to monitor for such events.  So even thoughF a stable PC only reboots 20 times every minute 8-) the output is still caught by the secondary PC.i   - Darren    F **********************************************************************C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential andeJ may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.M They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom theySL are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copyingr of this message is prohibited.   Bank of BermudaoF **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:23:08 -0600g2 From: Carleen Nutter <Carleen.Nutter@hsc.utah.edu>8 Subject: Re: RE: Direct OPCOM messages to e-mail account. Message-ID: <s96b03c4.042@gwmail.med.utah.edu>  K Thanks to all who have replied so far.  You've given me several promising =i leads.  The Saiga SystemssH TRACE product sound like what I'm looking for.  According to their web =! page, it's not been released yet.yE I will follow up with them - price is an issue.  I'll check out the =m DSNLink article also.e  K Otherwise, I'll take Richard's suggestion and try to code it (Richard, we =r do have a COBOL compiler andJ I did take a COBOL class many years ago.  Our analysts here mostly speak =G BASIC since that's what the application (not home-grown) is written in.   J An expensive monitoring system (like UNICENTER, or buying an NT-box with = monitoring software) is notAL a feasible solution right now.  Sad to say, we are being forced to look at =  another application that wont=20
 be VMS based.r   Carleenn   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:03:15 +0111 6 From: Horst Drechsel <ai05@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de>% Subject: Re: error parsing 'snapshot' < Message-ID: <009ECE9F.4FE10774.6@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de>  & >Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 10:20:03 -03002 >From: "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com>& >Subject: RE: error parsing 'snapshot' >s0 >      	Maybe it's just my ignorance but what is' >  /SYS$BACK:[000000]LU12_00-07-07.LU -eM > Not a VMS qualifier to my knowledge, this may explain why you are getting an/ > CLI error.  As for batch jobs not running ??.k
 > - Darren >>  - >>    BACKUP/IMAGE/NOASSIST/BLOCK=65000/LOG -x* >>    /SYS$BACK:[000000]LU12_00-07-07.LU -M >>     DISK1: TEMP:LU12_00-07-07.BCK/SAVE/LABEL=LUCKY/REWIND/IGNORE=INTERLOCKe >>  * >> %CLI-F-SYNTAX, error parsing 'SNAPSHOT'= >> -CLI-E-ENTNF, specified entity not found in command tablesa >>     --------------------------    Dear Darren,e  L    thanks for your reply. I'm sorry, I omitted something when including the D above error message in my InfoVAX posting. The actual command reads:  , >    BACKUP/IMAGE/NOASSIST/BLOCK=65000/LOG -- >    /LIS=SYS$BACK:[000000]LU12_00-07-07.LU -aL >     DISK1: TEMP:LU12_00-07-07.BCK/SAVE/LABEL=LUCKY/REWIND/IGNORE=INTERLOCK >     I    i.e. it's just the /LIS= qualifier which was missing (SYS$BACKUP is a tH logical defined as abbreviation of the path pointing to our backup list I file directory). That's ok and has always been running fine, and is by noi means reason of the CLI error.   > I >    This problem occurs since we applied ECO  ALPSYS20_071 (well, that's H > my guess, because since  a b o u t  that time these errors occur, I amB > not 100% sure that our problem is related to this system patch). >   H    The actual reason is still not clear. I could meanwhile recover from A this behaviour, but don't know which of these steps was actually   responsible:      1) run AUTOGEN-L    2) installed ECO ALPF11X04_071 (recommended in combination with ALPSYS20)J    3) deactivated JAVA JDK 1.1.8-5 kit (i.e. @JAVA$STARTUP and @JAVA$SETUP,       no more invoked during system startup)    4) booted server   a  J    We run into this situation, because we wanted to install Adobe Acrobat J Viewer for VMS, which needs the JAVA development kit, which in turn could K only be installed after a couple of system ECOs, one of which was ALPSYS20.   :    I personally suspect that JAVA was causing the problem.      Many thanks and best wishes,e         Horstd       --M  **************************************************************************** )   Horst Drechsel                          L   Dr. Remeis Observatory                 drechsel@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.deL   Astronomical Institute                             Phone: +49-951-95222-15L   University Erlangen-Nuernberg                        Fax: +49-951-95222-22*   Sternwartstr.7, D-96049 Bamberg, GermanyM  ****************************************************************************h   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2000 10:03:45 -0500 From: briggs@eisner.decus.org . Subject: Re: FTP from VMS via Firewall problem+ Message-ID: <OG$zZtf5dyPq@eisner.decus.org>   G In article <8kckhg$km1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, graculuss@my-deja.com writes:gB > VMS opens an FTP connection to TANDEM specifically on port 7000.8 > VMS generates an outgoing (local) port number of xxxx.E > Tandem generates an outgoing port number 6999, to talk back to portu > xxxx+1 on VMS:  H If you test carefully, you'll probably see that the Tandem talks back toC VMS with source port 6999 but destination port yyyy not necessarily.* related to xxxx.  See RFC 959 for details.  $ What goes on in the typical case is:   User keys in "get somefile"e: Client allocates a free TCP port number and listens on it.) Client sends: PORT x,y,z,w,s,t to server.hB (x,y,z,w are the octets of the client's IP address in decimal textL  s,t are the octets of the 16 bit allocated TCP port number in decimal text)8 Server acknowledges: 200 Port blah on host blah acceptedF Server opens a connection from control connection port-1 (6999) to the indicated port number. Data is transferredt Server closes connection< Client takes the connection end as an end-of-file indication/ Client frees the port and waits for user input.-  6 Try turning on "verbose".  You can see this in action.  8 > Now the firewall product (Firewall1) allows me to say: > ' > "Let VMS talk to port 7000 on Tandem"e( > "Let Tandem talk to port 6999 on VMS".  G Careful -- The tandem is not talking to port 6999 on VMS.  It's talkinga/ to random high port _from_ port 6999 on Tandem.s    E By default, Checkpoint Firewall-1 understands about FTP.  It monitorsaI the control connection and looks for "PORT" commands and "PASV" responses C between the client and server.  It then opens up connections in itspJ internal connection table to allow traffic to pass on the IP address/port ? number pairs that are negotiated on the FTP control connection.o   You have several ways to go.  M 1.  You can use passive transfers.  (Note that Checkpoint's training courses, G RFC 959 and ordinary traditional usage have three distinct meanings forg< "passive" in the context of FTP.  Don't let that throw you.)  F In a passive transfer (popular terminology) the client requests "PASV"F and the server responds with a server side port number.  When the timeC comes to do a data transfer the client opens up a connection to thek server port.  See RFC 959.  * To support this, you would have to open up  9 Source: VMS, Destination: Tandem, Service: TCP high portsn  G 2.  You can use ordinary transfers and tighten up the rule allowing theaD backwards connection from the Tandem into VMS by filtering on source port.r  I From the Firewall-1 management GUI, pull down Manage, Services and createI= a new service.  Make it a TCP service.  Call it FTP-DATA-69991  L In the destination port field, key in ">1023".  Leave off the double quotes.* In the source port range, use 6999 to 6999  G Now use this service to control the back-connection from Tandem to VMS.b  8 Source: Tandem, Destination: VMS, Service: FTP-DATA-6999  B 3.  You can do it the right way by defining a service for FTP on a non-standard port.  J From the Firewall-1 management GUI, pull down Manage, Services and look at# the definition for the FTP service.   6 It has destination port 21 and protocol type of "FTP".  C Create a similar service called FTP-7000 using destination port 21.e   In place of your current rule:  3 Source: VMS, Destination: Tandem, Service: TCP-7000m     usei  3 Source: VMS, Destination: Tandem, Service: FTP-7000d  F I've never tried this, but it should work quite nicely.  Don't put anyG rule in the rulebase to permit return traffic.  The firewall processingoJ of the FTP protocol type will do its magic and permit both the returnboundL data traffic for ordinary mode FTP and the outbound data traffic for passive/ mode FTP as each such connection is negotiated.s  & 	John Briggs			briggs@eisner.decus.org   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jul 2000 18:07:01 GMT. From: smith_j@removeit.cqm.co.uk (James Smith)# Subject: Hobbyist TCP IP licenses ?e7 Message-ID: <8F6EB5057smithjremoveitcqmcou@212.41.43.3>h  G I've just installed the open vms 7.2 hobbyist cd onto my vaxstation3100e    < everything was going fine until i got to the tcpip part.....    I it's installed it ok, but it's insisting that i enter a PAK for the tcpip*  K i've looked through all the PAKs i got with the cd & dont see one for tcpip-  C have i maybe installed the wrong thing? i used the tcpip_vax050 kity  D i can get the interface set up & pinging, but i cant get any of the D services working because the menu options are disallowed when i run 
 tcpip$config >     any ideas anybody ?5   James S0   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 13:28:03 -0400r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>b' Subject: Re: Hobbyist TCP IP licenses ?v, Message-ID: <396B591A.13DED807@videotron.ca>   James Smith wrote:K > it's installed it ok, but it's insisting that i enter a PAK for the tcpipy  F The PAK's product name is "UCX" which was the predecessor to the TCPIP@ services name. Not very obvious if you didn't know about that...   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jul 2000 17:44:56 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)' Subject: Re: Hobbyist TCP IP licenses ?t6 Message-ID: <8kfmeo$eqg$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  h In article <8F6EB5057smithjremoveitcqmcou@212.41.43.3>, smith_j@removeit.cqm.co.uk (James Smith) writes:J :it's installed it ok, but it's insisting that i enter a PAK for the tcpip :mL :i've looked through all the PAKs i got with the cd & dont see one for tcpip     PAK name is "UCX".  "   Time to add this one to the FAQ.  D :have i maybe installed the wrong thing? i used the tcpip_vax050 kit  B   V5.0A is the prefered version, donno if that's available via the"   Hobbyist distribution quite yet.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 01:09:099 From: <magicmike@yahoo.com>1F Subject: How I Went From Dead Broke To Earning $4,659.00 in Seven Days% Message-ID: <185.611538.525598@Go4it>   B ATTENTION:  Read this NOW, or Print it out for a later, but don't  let it> slip through your fingers.   EVERYONE SHOULD GO DOWN THIS ROAD    = Tens of thousands of new people are going online every week, r within the nextnB three to four years there will be over 250 million people will be  surfingb> the net, and within the next eight years there will be over a 
 billion. Thatr7 is a lot of people, and they are all within your reach.C  ' EARN $100,000 PER YEAR SENDING E-MAIL!!g. DON'T DELETE THIS.....PRINT IT......READ IT!!! YOU'LL BE GLADYOU DID!!!!    Dear Friend,A You can earn $50,000 or more in the next 90 days sending e-mail, l seem impossible?p< ------------------------------------------------------------ "AS SEEN ON NATIONAL T.V."@ Thank you for your time and Interest. This is the letter you've  been reading about in the news lately.3> Due to the popularity of this letter on the Internet, a major  nightly news@ program recently devoted an Entire show to the investigation of  the programH@ described below to see, if it really can make people money. The 	 show alsooB investigated whether or not the program was legal. Their findings  proved@ once and for All that there are, absolutely no laws prohibiting  theuB participation in the program. This has helped to Show people that 	 this is a($ simple, harmless and fun way to make= some extra money at home. The results of this show have been g trulytA remarkable. So many people are participating that those involved a
 are doing,@ much better than ever before. Since everyone makes more as more 
 people try@ it out, its been very exciting to be a part of lately. You will 
 understand once you experience it.g   "HERE IT IS BELOW"5 =====================================================tA *** Print This Now For Future Reference *** taking a Look at. It o can be= started with VERY LITTLE investment and the income return is p
 TREMENDOUS!!!c  = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$   A If you would like to make at least $50,000 in less than 90 days! t Please readA, the enclosed program.. THEN READ IT AGAIN!!!  = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$*    B THIS IS A LEGITIMATE, LEGAL, MONEYMAKING OPPORTUNITY. It does not  requirepA you to come into contact with people, do any hard work, and best   of all, youn= Never have to leave the house except to get the mail. If you v believe that@ someday you'll get that big break that you've been waiting for,  THIS IS IT! @ Simply follow the instructions, and your dreams will come true.  ThisB multi-level e-mail order marketing program works perfectly...100%  EVERYs@ TIME. E-mail is the sales tool of the future. Take advantage of  this/ non-commercialised method of advertising NOW!!!-B The longer you wait, the more people will be doing business using  e-mail.a Get your piece of this action,  A MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING (MLM) has finally gained respectabilities. s It is beingCB taught in the Harvard Business School, and both Stanford Research  and theA@ Wall Street Journal have stated that between 50% and 65% of all 	 goods andr@ services will be sold through multi-level methods by the mid to  late 1990's.; This is a Multi-Billion Dollar industry and of the 500,000 a millionaires ins? the U.S., 20% (100,000) made their fortune in the last several p
 years in MLM.uA Moreover, statistics show 45 people become millionaires everyday S throughsA Multi-Level Marketing. You may have heard this story before, but a over the> summer Donald Trump made an appearance on the David Letterman 
 show. DaveB asked him what he would do if he lost everything and had to start 	 over Fromj= scratch. Without hesitating, Trump said he would find a good   networke@ marketing company and Get to work. The audience started to hoot  and boo him.- He looked out at the audience and dead-panneda= His response "That's why I'm sitting up here and you are all m sitting outP? there!" With network marketing you have two sources of income.   Direct> commissions from sales you make yourself and commissions from 
 sales made by = people you introduce to the business. Residual income is the  
 secret of thea@ wealthy. It means investing time or money once and getting paid 	 Again andbB again and again. In network marketing, it also means getting paid  for the ? work of others. The enclosed information is something I almost t let slip: through my fingers. Fortunately, sometime later I re-read  everything and" gave some thought and study to it.  > My name is Johnathon Rourke. Two years ago, the corporation I 
 worked at forrA the past twelve years Down-sized and my position was eliminated. m After @ unproductive job interviews, I decided to open my own business.  Over theA past year, I incurred many unforeseen financial problems. I owed y
 my family,B friends and creditors over $35,000. The economy was taking a toll  on myh> business and I just couldn't seem to make ends meet. I had to 
 refinance anda borrow against my home tom: support my family and struggling business. AT THAT MOMENT 	 somethingi> significant happened in my life and I am writing to share the 
 experience ine< hopes that this will change your life FOREVER FINANCIALLY!!!  A In mid December, I received this program via e-mail. Six month's * prior toB receiving this program I had been sending away for information on  variousa> business opportunities. All of the programs I received, in my 
 opinion, wereo= not cost effective. They were either too difficult for me to n
 comprehend oreB the initial investment was too much for me to risk to see if they 
 would work? or not. One claimed that I would make a million dollars in one g	 year...it 3 didn't tell me I'd have to write a book to make it!n  ; But like I was saying, in December of 1997 I received this o program. I didn't*@ send for it, or ask for it, They just got my name off a mailing  list. THANK-B GOODNESS FOR THAT!!! After reading it several times, to make sure  I wasl= reading it correctly, I couldn't believe my eyes. Here was a s MONEY MAKINGA PHENOMENON. I could invest as much as I wanted to start, without l
 putting meA further into debt. After I got a pencil and paper and figured it a out, I> would at Least gets my money back. But like most of you I was  still a littleB sceptical and a little worried about the legal aspects of it all.  So IA checked it out with the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161 24-hrs) s and theyA confirmed that it is Indeed legal! After determining the program  	 was LEGALp	 and NOT A ? CHAIN LETTER, I decided "WHY NOT." Initially I sent out 10,000 s e-mails. It = cost me about $15 for my time on-line. The great thing about n e-mail is thatA I don't need any money for printing to send out the program, and o because allw= of my orders are fulfilled via e-mail, the only expense is mye> time. I am telling you like it is, I hope it doesn't turn you 
 off, but IA promised myself that I would not "rip-off" anyone, no matter how  
 much money it cost me.m  < In less than one week, I was starting to receive orders for 
 REPORT #1. By'A January 13, I had received 26 orders for REPORT #1. Your goal is n to "RECEIVE:? at least 20 ORDERS FOR REPORT #1 WITHIN 2 WEEKS. IF YOU DON'T, @
 SEND OUT MOREo PROGRAMS> UNTIL YOU DO!" My first step in making $50,000 in 90 days was  done. ByB January 30, I had received 196 orders for REPORT #2. Your goal is  to? "RECEIVE AT LEAST 100+ ORDERS FOR REPORT #2 WITHIN 2 WEEKS. IF  
 NOT, SEND OUTfB MORE PROGRAMS UNTIL YOU DO. ONCE YOU HAVE 100 ORDERS, THE REST IS  EASY,S RELAX, YOU WILL B MAKE YOUR $50,000 GOAL." Well, I had 196 orders for REPORT #2, 96 	 more than7A I needed. So I sat back And relaxed. By March 1, of my e-mailing T
 of 10,000,A I received $58,000 with more coming in every day. I paid off ALL m my debts? and bought a much needed new car. Please take time to read the a attached> program, IT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER!!! Remember that it 
 won't work ifg= you don't try it. This program does work, but you must followUB it EXACTLY! Especially the rules of not trying to place your name  in a< different place. It won't work, you'll lose out on a lot of  money! In orderT1 for this program to work, you must meet your goaleA of 20+ orders for REPORT#1, and100+ orders for REPORT #2 and you t	 will makepB $50,000 or more in 90 days. I AM LIVING PROOF THAT IT WORKS!!! If 
 you choose? not to participate in this program, I am sorry. It really is a   greatT> opportunity with little cost or risk to you. If you choose to  participate,< follow the program and you will be on your way to financial  security. If you@ are a fellow business owner and are if financial trouble like I  was, or youn= want to start your own business, consider this a sign. I DID!v  
 Sincerely, Johnathon Rourke  = P.S. Do you have any idea what 11,700 $5 bills ($58,000) look2. like piled upon a kitchen table? IT'S AWESOME!< ------------------------------------------------------------4 A PERSONAL NOTE FROM THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS PROGRAM:  @ By the time you have read the enclosed program and reports, you  should haveiA concluded that an amateur could not have created such a program, S and onee> that is legal. Let me tell you a little about myself. I had a 
 profitable> business for 10 years. Then in 1979 my business began falling 
 off. I wasB doing the same things that were previously successful for me, but 	 it wasn't = working. Finally, I figured it out. It wasn't me, it was the * economy.A Inflation and recession had replaced the stable economy that had  	 been withe= us since 1945. I don't have to tell you what happened to the e unemployment= rate... because many of you know from first hand experience. 2 There were moreyA failures and bankruptcies than ever before. The middle class was  
 vanishing.B Those who knew what they were doing invested wisely and moved up. 	 Those who*" did not, including those who never@ had anything to save or invest, were moving down into the ranks  of the poor.: As the saying goes, "THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET  POORER." TheB traditional methods of making money will never allow you to "move  up" or' "get rich", inflation will see to that.   ? You have just received information that can give you financial   freedom foro the rest of your life, withf? "NO RISK" and "JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT." You can make more b money in theA next few months than you have ever imagined. I should also point  
 out that I< will not see a penny of this money, nor anyone else who has 
 provided aA Testimonial for this program. I have already made over 4 MILLION n
 DOLLARS! I< have retired from the program after sending out over 16,000  programs. Now In? have several offices that make this and several other programs r
 here and overeA seas. Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do not change it e in any way.eB It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to e-mail a copy  of thisP@ exciting report to everyone you can think of. One of the people  you send+ this to may send out 50,000...and your namem@ will be on everyone of them! Remember though, the more you send  out the more	 potential  customers you will reach.e  A So my friend, I have given you the ideas, information, materials s andY? opportunity to become financially independent, IT IS UP TO YOU l NOW!   "THINK ABOUT IT"> Before you delete this program from your mailbox, as I almost  did, take aV? little time to read it and REALLY THINK ABOUT IT. Get a pencil  
 and figureA out what could happen when YOU participate. Figure out the worst t possibleA response and no matter how you calculate it, you will still make n a lot ofB money! You will definitely get back what you invested. Any doubts  you have will0 vanish when your first orders come in. IT WORKS!   Jody Jacobs, Richmond, VAt< ------------------------------------------------------------; HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PROGRAM WILL MAKE YOU THOUSANDS OF o DOLLAR$.< ------------------------------------------------------------
 INSTRUCTIONS: ? Before you say "BULL... ", Please read this program carefully. g
 This is not ae> chain letter, but a perfectly legal money making opportunity. 
 Basically,B this is what you do: As with all multi-level businesses, we build  ourd> business by recruiting new partners and selling our products.  Every state inA the USA allows you to recruit new multi-level business partners,   and we@ offer a product for EVERY dollar sent. YOUR ORDERS COME BY MAIL  AND AREe? FILLED BY E-MAIL, so you are not involved in personal selling. t	 You do ithA privately in your own home, store or office. This is the GREATEST * Multi-Level Mail Order Marketing anywhere:   This is what you MUST do:l? 1. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell   them if Youl don't order them).= * For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE   REPORT YOU AREB ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR NAME & RETURN ADDRESS (in 	 case of ahB problem) to the person whose name appears on the list next to the  report.e  A MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS ON YOUR ENVELOPE IN CASE OF ANY   MAIL	 PROBLEMS!n  B * When you place your order, make sure you order each of the four  reports.A You will need all four reports so that you can save them on your s computer and resell them.  > * Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the 
 four reports.nA Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to a send to the / 1,000's of people who will order them from you.i  < 2. IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are  listed next toB each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than  isB instructed below in steps "a" through "f" or you will lose out on  thecB majority of your profits. Once you understand the way this works,  you'llB also see how it doesn't work if you change it. Remember that this 
 method has3 been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work.-3 a. Look below for the listing of available reports.:B b. After you've ordered the four reports, take this advertisement  and B remove the name and address under REPORT #4. This person has made 
 it through1 the cycle and is no doubt counting their $50,000!t? c. Move the name and address under REPORT #3 down to REPORT #4.o? d. Move the name and address under REPORT #2 down to REPORT #3.g? e. Move the name and address under REPORT #1 down to REPORT #2. 6 f. Insert your name/address in the REPORT #1 position.< Please make sure you copy every name and address ACCURATELY!  B 3. Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names,  and save@ it to your computer. Make NO changes to the instruction portion  of thisf@ letter. Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing  (surely you 8 can afford $20). You obviously already have an Internet  connection and e-mail is FREE!j  B To assist you with marketing your business on the internet, the 4  reportsc8 you purchase will provide you with invaluable marketing  information whichn> includes how to send bulk e-mails, where to find thousands of  free< classified ads and much, much more. In addition you will be 
 provided withn9 information on Internet Marketing Clubs such as INTERNET   MARKETING RESOURCESG@ (IMR): This is one the premiere Internet marketing clubs on the 	 INTERNET. B This club provides a forum where Internet marketers from all over 	 the worldn9 can exchange ideas and secrets on Internet Marketing. In _ addition, this club(; specialises in providing free Internet marketing tools and n services for the? Do-Yourself-Internet-Marketer. They will provide you with free h bulk e-mailt? software and up to 1,000,000 fresh e-mail addresses each week. o	 This clubA@ Will provide you with hundreds of free resources which include:  How to< obtain free web sites, how to obtain top rankings in search  engines for yourB web-site, how to send bulk e-mail into AOL and CompuServe, how to  market= your products on newsgroups, free classified ads, electronic p malls, bulletin ! boards, banner ads and much more.-, http://homepage1-2.virtualave.net/index3.htm  @ There are two primary methods of building your downline: METHOD  #1: SENDINGkB BULK E-MAIL Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see  how it@ goes, and we'll assume you and all those involved send out only  2,000eB programs each. Let's also assume that the mailing receives a 0.5% 	 response.o@ Using a good list the response could be much better. Also, many  people willeA send out hundreds of thousands of programs instead of 2,000. But f
 continuing4 with this example, you send out only 2,000 programs.B With a 0.5% response, that is only 10 orders for REPORT #1. Those 	 10 people B respond by sending out 2,000 programs each for a total of 20,000.  Out of> those 0.5%, 100 people respond and order REPORT #2. Those 100 	 mails out0A 2,000 programs each for a total of 200,000. The 0.5% response to p that is-@ 1,000 orders for REPORT #3. Those 1,000 send out 2,000 programs 
 each for a@ 2,000,000 total. The 0.5% response to that is 10,000 orders for 
 REPORT #4.B That's 10,000 $5 bills for you. CASH!!! Your total income in this 
 example is6 $50 + $500 + $5,000+$50,000 for a total of  $55,550!!!  @ REMEMBER FRIEND, THIS IS ASSUMING 1,990 OUT OF THE 2,000 PEOPLE  YOU MAIL TOfA WILL DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AND TRASH THIS PROGRAM! DARE TO THINK e FOR A ? MOMENT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF EVERYONE, OR HALF SENT OUT 100,000 A PROGRAMS@ INSTEAD OF 2,000. Believe me, many people will do just that, andB more! By the way, your cost to participate in this is practically  nothing.? You obviously already have an Internet connection ande-mail is i FREE!!!v  B REPORT #2 will show you the best methods for bulk e mailing, tell 	 you whered? to obtain free bulk e-mail software and where to obtain e-mail s
 lists. METHOD % #2 - PLACING FREE ADS ON THE INTERNETi  @ 1. Advertising on the 'Net is very, very inexpensive, and there  are HUNDREDSA of FREE places to advertise. Let's say you decide to start small = just to see @ how well it works. Assume your goal is to get ONLY 10 people to  participateV@ on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the Internet  will EASILY$# get a larger response.) Also assume$> that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline  members.  < Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below.? 1st level--your 10 members with $5 .........................$50$@ 2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100)..............$500A 3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x1,000)...........$5,000h+ 4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 e x10,000)........$50,000t> --------- THIS TOTALS----------------------------------$55,550  ? Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate l only recruitA 10 people each. Think for a moment what would happen if they got o	 20 peoplei( to participate! Most people get 100's of participants! THINK ABOUT IT!l  @ For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the  report theyg; ordered. THAT'S IT! ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL b ORDERS! This willa< guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR name and  address on it,B will be prompt because theycan't advertise until they receive the  report!h< ------------------------------------------------------------ AVAILABLE REPORTSb< ------------------------------------------------------------, *** Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME *** Notes:? - ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (U.S. CURRENCY) FOR EACH REPORT (CHEQUES  
 NOT ACCEPTED)s- - ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS MAIL A - Make sure wrapping it in at least two sheets of paper conceals o the cash Onl& one of those sheets of paper, include:? (a) The number & name of the report you are ordering, (b) your t e-mail, address, and (c) your name & postal address.  ' PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW: < ____________________________________________________________= REPORT #1 "The Insiders Guide To Advertising For Free on the  	 Internet"a   ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:o   M. Gilhooley 136 East Center St.  Shavertown, PA 18708 U.S.A.< ____________________________________________________________= REPORT #2 "The Insider's Guide to Sending Bulk E-mail on the t	 Internet"i   ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:f   Mackenzee Rice 3860 Condor Circle Liverpool, NY 13036f U.S.A.7 _______________________________________________________h? REPORT #3 "The Secrets to Multilevel Marketing on the Internet"    ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:o   R Tweedd 51 Victoria Road Sydenham Belfast  BT4 1QU  U.K.< ____________________________________________________________> REPORT #4 "How to become a Millionaire utilising the Power Of 
 Multilevel Marketing and the Internet"m   ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:t   Reportsa Connaught Housen Old Rectory Closey MershamJ Kent TN25 6LZ UK< ____________________________________________________________  ******* TIPS FOR SUCCESS *******  < * TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and 
 follow the directions accurately.> * Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them  when theA orders start coming in because: When you receive a $5 order, you g	 MUST sendn! out the requested product/report.s  < * ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.  @ * Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow theB instructions exactly, your results WILL BE SUCCESSFUL! ABOVE ALL, 
 HAVE FAITH& IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED!  ' ******* YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES *******n2 Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success:  ? If you don't receive 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, w continue? advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Then, a couple of m weeks later < you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT#2. If you  don't, continuem, advertising or sending e-mails until you do.  A Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN   RELAX,A because the system is already working for you, and the cash will l continue to  roll in!   THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:  B Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in 
 front of aB DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching  whichSB report people are ordering from you. If you want to generate more  income,t@ send another batch of e-mails or continue placing ads and start 	 the wholeN process again!  < There is no limit to the income you will generate from this 	 business!t  7 Before you make your decision as to whether or not you   participate in thisy@ program. Please answer one question. DO YOU WANT TO CHANGE YOUR  LIFE? If the= answer is yes, please look at the following facts about this t program:  = 1. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO i PRODUCE!  = 2. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO   SHIP!E  A 3. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST YOU ANYTHING TO  
 ADVERTISE!  ? 4. YOU ARE UTILIZING THE POWER OF THE INTERNET AND THE POWER OFt> MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING TO DISTRIBUTE YOUR PRODUCT ALL OVER THE  WORLD!  A 5. YOUR ONLY EXPENSES OTHER THAN YOUR INITIAL $20 INVESTMENT  IS s
 YOUR TIME!  B 6. VIRTUALLY ALL OF THE INCOME YOU GENERATE FROM THIS PROGRAM  IS  PURE PROFIT!   . 7. THIS PROGRAM WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER.  ' ******* T E S T I M O N I A L S *******o  8 This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY!  Especially the rule = of not trying to place your name in a different position, it   won't work and@ you'll lose a lot of potential income. I'm living proof that it 	 works. ItNB really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money, with  littleA cost to you. If you do choose to participate, follow the program   exactly,0 and you'll be on your way to financial security.    StevenBardfield, Portland, OR  A My name is Mitchell. My wife, Jody, and I live in Chicago, IL. I ,	 am a cost @ accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good  money. When @ I received the program I grumbled to Jody about receiving "junk  mail." I: made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the  population and> percentages involved. I "knew" it wouldn't work. Jody totally 
 Ignored my; supposed intelligence and jumped in with both feet. I made h merciless fun ofB her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you so" on her when the  thingA? didn't work... well, the laugh was on me! Within two weeks she a had receivedA over 50 responses. Within 45 days she had received over $147,200   in $5s? bills! I was shocked! I was sure that I had it all figured and O that it1> wouldn't work. I AM a believer now. I have joined Jody in her  "hobby." I did@ have seven more years until retirement, but I think of the "rat 	 race" ando% it's not for me. We owe it all toMLM.a    Mitchell Wolf MD., Chicago, IL   = The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this a	 system is B honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large 	 amount of ? money in a short time. I was approached several times before I r checked thisB out. I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the  minimal : effort and money required. To my astonishment, I received  $36,470.00 in thea; first14 weeks, with money still coming in. Sincerely yours,-    Charles Morris, Esq.S  A Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up e
 my mind to@ participate in this plan. But conservative that I am, I decided  that theA initial investment was so little that there was just no way that t
 I wouldn't< get enough orders to at least get my money back. Boy, was I  surprised when I$ found my medium-size post office boxA crammed with orders! For awhile, it got so overloaded that I had u to startA picking up my mail at the window. I'll make more money this Year * than any 10n' years of my life before. The nice thinga= about this deal is that it doesn't matter where people live.   There simply. isn't a better investment with a faster return   Paige Willis, Des Moines, IA  > I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I 
 wondered if I ? shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to  
 contact to@ get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed another  program,@ ..11 months passed then it came...I didn't delete this one!...I 	 made more  than $41,000 on the first try!!     Violet Wilson, Johnstown, PA"  @ This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have quit 	 our jobs,r@ and will soon buy a home on the beach and live off the interest  on ourA money. The only way on earth that this plan will work for you is r	 if you dof@ it. For your sake and for your family's sake don't pass up this  golden* opportunity. Good luck and happy spending!    Kerry Ford, Centerport, NY   9 ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO s FINANCIAL FREEDOM!  > NOW IS THE TIME FOR YOUR TURN DECISIVE ACTION YIELDS POWERFUL  RESULTSL  8 PLEASE NOTE: If you need help with starting a business, 
 registering aaA business name, learning how income tax is handled, etc., contact r
 your local> office of the Small Business Administration (a Federal agency)B 1-(800)827-5722 for free help and answers to questions. Also, the  InternalA Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and free seminars   aboutf@ business tax requirements. Your earnings and results are highly  dependent on; your activities and advertising. This letter Constitute no   guarantees statede@ or implied. In the event that it is determined that this letter  constitutes 9 a guarantee of any kind, that guarantee is now void. Any c testimonials or,< amounts of earnings listed in this letter may be factual or  fictitious. IfA you have any question of the legality of this letter contact the t	 Office of 9 Associate Director for Marketing Practices Federal Trade h Commission Bureaui( of Consumer Protection in Washington DC.5 =====================================================t    A This ad is being sent in compliance with Senate bill 1618, Title s
 3, section 301. o? http://www.senate.gov/~murkowski/commercialemail/S771index.html ; This message is sent in compliance of the new e-mail bill: - SECTION 301. Per+ Section 301, paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618L? http://www.senate.gov/~murkowski/commercialemail/S771index.html-  = Further transmissions to you by the sender of this email may U bestopped at noe> cost to you by sending a reply to this email address with the 
 word "remove"a in the subject line.                     s     t  u  :   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:29:49 -0400g- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> C Subject: In praise of Kermit (was Re: Charon-VAX Hobbyist Question)n. Message-ID: <smmfbb58nd691@corp.supernews.com>  " Timothy Stark wrote in message .../ >Hunter Goatley <goathunter@goatley.com> wrote:nF >> Just FYI, following the suggestion someone here made, I was able to? >> get C-Kermit transferring files after I bumped up the SYSGENyE >> parameters related to the typeahead buffers.  Once again, C-Kermith >> comes to the rescue!e > D >Good news! I resolved the overrun problems when I increased to 2064 fromF >78 and 200 in TTY variables per kermit VMS installation instructions. (I@ >forget whose names, sorry.)  Good job, Frank the kermit author. >o    B Good to hear. Those parameters were TTY_TYPAHDSZ and TTY_ALTYPAHD.  F I find that if I use CKERMIT on the AXP to connect to CHARON I need toD use the /NO-TELNET option otherwise CHARON sometimes crashes. So the
 command is  -         C-Kermit> telnet mypc 5004 /no-telneto  F Speaking of Kermit, I am forever grateful for Frank ever since one dayA in 84 when I was sent to the customer site with a tape of programpF mods. I had to load the tape and then attend a meeting to discuss whatE changes we made and what other problems the users had found. I learnt  three things that day;C         1. Always allocate the tape drive before you load the mediaaF         2. Always remove the ring unless you want to write to the tapeD         3. Kermit on a 1200 bd line is a lot better than driving 2.5, hours back to the office to make a new tape.  B It turned out that the operators were being trained on the new 750D that day and were learning how to do tape operations, luckily we hadC put Kermit on that box and our home 730 the week before. Ever sincep, then I have put Kermit on every box I could.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:04:06 GMTh From: choppper@my-deja.com> Subject: Invalid RFA error trying to extract help library file) Message-ID: <8kentv$6ok$1@nnrp1.deja.com>d   Please someone help!  C I'm trying to extract the contents of a help file (*.hlb) to a text  file using the command  < $ LIBR/HELP/EXTR=*/OUT=<my_filename> <help_library_filename>  D However, it seems that one of the records (modules?) within the help/ library is corrupt or something, and so I get aa  5 %LIBRAR-E-LOOKUPERR, error looking up <modulename> ino. <help_library_name> -LBR-E-INVRFA, invalid RFA  9 Because of this one invalid RFA I can't extract anything.o   Anyone any idea how I fix it?v   TIAt   Choppern        & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:15:56 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) = Subject: Re: Looking for VMS source code (any version really)d0 Message-ID: <009ECE87.F0539F25@SendSpamHere.ORG>  R In article <FxIGFH.JKG@spcuna.spc.edu>, Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> writes: >Dan <dan@vrx.net> writes: >> Terry Kennedy wrote:t >rN >>>   Part number QB-MT1AB-E8 is available directly from Compaq (800-DIGITAL).O >>> It's the VMS V7.2-1 Alpha listings. Lead time is 4 days, price is $2284.00.eK >>> The VAX listings for V7.2 is part number QB-001AB-E8, same price, 7 daye >>> lead time. >eO >> Thank you, price has been previously mentioned. if I had $2k (which I don't)  >> I'd pursue that.eP >> but since I don't, would anyone be willing if I paid the monthly subscription >> for them? >sN >  Do you have $780 to gamble on this? QT-MT1AB-Q8 is the subscription serviceM >for Alpha listings (that fee is for 12 months, the minimum subscription per-nM >iod). At this point it's a pretty safe bet to say VMS 7.3 will be out withiniL >a year, but some 12-month periods go by without an update. Just subscribing7 >to the service doesn't get you the current listings...  > 9 >  I'm not even going to address the licensing issues 8-)D  C Nor will Compaq... well, at least, TCFKA Digital didn't.  Wholesale C portions of their own code -- many thousands lines -- appeared in aoD 3rd party product competing against digital and denying them of pro-B fits!  AFAIK, nothing was ever done to stop this 3rd party, so whyB should this fellow, seemingly interested for altruistic/non-profitB intents, be of any concern.  I am not speaking for Digital/Compaq; just questioning their motives.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2000 08:44:08 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) = Subject: Re: Looking for VMS source code (any version really).+ Message-ID: <5dfs7qzkeEWg@eisner.decus.org>R  K In article <396AAC89.54B6BF87@vrx.net>, Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net> writes:e  5 > I don't want a subscription, or the latest sources.   B My understanding is that you have to purchase the one-time versionI in order to get started on the subscription (as a licensing requirement).R= I also believe the license prevents transfer to a third partyA, (meaning you can only get them from Compaq).   > Any source version will do. G > Hell, I'll take v3.1 if someone can get me a CD (ultra-cheap or free)G  C I think you have not been paying attention regarding the version at . which they switched from microfiche to CD-ROM.   > Terry Kennedy wrote:  ; >>   I'm not even going to address the licensing issues 8-)  >  > no license to use. who cares?  > I'm not going to.f > it's for study.t  < But "study" _is_ the "use" to which the listing CDs are put.; By the way, the license for the listings requires that theyT& be only used only on a single machine.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 13:26:21 GMT ! From: Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net>s= Subject: Re: Looking for VMS source code (any version really) ' Message-ID: <396B2077.3B82FA3A@vrx.net>V  & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:  E > Nor will Compaq... well, at least, TCFKA Digital didn't.  WholesalemE > portions of their own code -- many thousands lines -- appeared in abF > 3rd party product competing against digital and denying them of pro-D > fits!  AFAIK, nothing was ever done to stop this 3rd party, so whyD > should this fellow, seemingly interested for altruistic/non-profitD > intents, be of any concern.  I am not speaking for Digital/Compaq;! > just questioning their motives.1  5 Motives? Are pure study, plain and simple. that's it.-< I could care less about licensing. It's not going any where.  V I worked on VMS systems for over 10 years when I started out into it, was an admin forM two of those. All I'd like to do is look at the code. that's it. I'm curious.fU VMS is my favourite OS (2nd favourite is amiga). Call me weird, or whatever you want,aS I just want to see the thing. and while reading it perchance to say "oh, that's howL they do that"...  6 Gosh golly it's worse than pulling teeth I tell you...   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 13:23:01 GMTl! From: Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net>-= Subject: Re: Looking for VMS source code (any version really)L' Message-ID: <396B1FB1.AA96E8F6@vrx.net>-   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  B My understanding is that you have to purchase the one-time version  K > in order to get started on the subscription (as a licensing requirement).S? > I also believe the license prevents transfer to a third partyn. > (meaning you can only get them from Compaq).  ! a few were sold on ebay recently.   E > I think you have not been paying attention regarding the version att0 > which they switched from microfiche to CD-ROM.  $ I have no idea when they switched...  > > But "study" _is_ the "use" to which the listing CDs are put.= > By the way, the license for the listings requires that theyt( > be only used only on a single machine.  + "like a book". and "one machine at a time".oM I seriously doubt that if I happen to be reading a version lent to me (one of_L the old ones), lent to me by someone who has a few of them, I very seriouslyI doubt they'd just happen to be using that very same exact version for any,- reason. Especially since they'd have lent it._   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:56:35 -0400g+ From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> = Subject: Re: Looking for VMS source code (any version really).0 Message-ID: <396AEF53.4B88705@trailing-edge.com>   Beyonder wrote:T > ( > "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: > G > > Nor will Compaq... well, at least, TCFKA Digital didn't.  WholesaletG > > portions of their own code -- many thousands lines -- appeared in a6H > > 3rd party product competing against digital and denying them of pro-F > > fits!  AFAIK, nothing was ever done to stop this 3rd party, so whyF > > should this fellow, seemingly interested for altruistic/non-profitF > > intents, be of any concern.  I am not speaking for Digital/Compaq;# > > just questioning their motives.a > 7 > Motives? Are pure study, plain and simple. that's it.t  > The listings are not, IMHO, the place to start.  It's not likeA Unix where the listings are the documentation; this is VMS, wheree? there is a lot of high-quality documentation readily available,L9 much of it now on the web (see the documentation links at* www.openvms.digital.com)  C After you've done the VMS documentation - including the programmingy= manuals - then you go to the book _VAX/VMS Internals and Datao= Structures_.  This is an excellent book, giving lots of juicyuF details about the framework holding VMS together in an easily-digested fashion.  B If, after doing both of the above, you want to know something thatD isn't officially documented, then the listings may be an appropriate< place to go.  Starting with the listings is not a good idea,C especially if you're "just browsing", because you'll have literally @ gigabytes of information without a framework for how it all fits	 together.f   Tim.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 14:43:44 GMTe% From: "P.Lj" <plj@byron.ext.telia.se>o= Subject: Re: Looking for VMS source code (any version really)l2 Message-ID: <396B32A3.1DF57305@byron.ext.telia.se>   Yes, I agree here,L "OpenVMS [Alpha] Internals and Data Structures" .or. [VAX] is great to start with.   J Source listings and patches, when "debuggning" systemcode it's a pain withK new code, not in the listings, done that once,  what I believe is that theye- only come with a major release of  VMS itselfs  	 >>> ^P.Lj      Tim Shoppa wrote:P   > Beyonder wrote:  > >A* > > "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: > >OI > > > Nor will Compaq... well, at least, TCFKA Digital didn't.  WholesaleUI > > > portions of their own code -- many thousands lines -- appeared in aGJ > > > 3rd party product competing against digital and denying them of pro-H > > > fits!  AFAIK, nothing was ever done to stop this 3rd party, so whyH > > > should this fellow, seemingly interested for altruistic/non-profitH > > > intents, be of any concern.  I am not speaking for Digital/Compaq;% > > > just questioning their motives.  > >*9 > > Motives? Are pure study, plain and simple. that's it.k >u@ > The listings are not, IMHO, the place to start.  It's not likeC > Unix where the listings are the documentation; this is VMS, whereoA > there is a lot of high-quality documentation readily available,k; > much of it now on the web (see the documentation links at  > www.openvms.digital.com) >oE > After you've done the VMS documentation - including the programming ? > manuals - then you go to the book _VAX/VMS Internals and Data ? > Structures_.  This is an excellent book, giving lots of juicy H > details about the framework holding VMS together in an easily-digested
 > fashion. >gD > If, after doing both of the above, you want to know something thatF > isn't officially documented, then the listings may be an appropriate> > place to go.  Starting with the listings is not a good idea,E > especially if you're "just browsing", because you'll have literallypB > gigabytes of information without a framework for how it all fits > together.l >I > Tim.   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jul 2000 08:58:22 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.560753.killspam.00bb (Wayne Sewell)W= Subject: Re: Looking for VMS source code (any version really)I. Message-ID: <XTpyB0mcU1l0@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  R In article <FxIGFH.JKG@spcuna.spc.edu>, Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> writes: > Dan <dan@vrx.net> writes:  >> Terry Kennedy wrote:u > N >>>   Part number QB-MT1AB-E8 is available directly from Compaq (800-DIGITAL).O >>> It's the VMS V7.2-1 Alpha listings. Lead time is 4 days, price is $2284.00.tK >>> The VAX listings for V7.2 is part number QB-001AB-E8, same price, 7 day  >>> lead time. > O >> Thank you, price has been previously mentioned. if I had $2k (which I don't)h >> I'd pursue that.tP >> but since I don't, would anyone be willing if I paid the monthly subscription >> for them? > O >   Do you have $780 to gamble on this? QT-MT1AB-Q8 is the subscription service.N > for Alpha listings (that fee is for 12 months, the minimum subscription per-N > iod). At this point it's a pretty safe bet to say VMS 7.3 will be out withinM > a year, but some 12-month periods go by without an update. Just subscribinga8 > to the service doesn't get you the current listings... > : >   I'm not even going to address the licensing issues 8-)  J Are the listings no longer available as a one-shot, i.e. a snapsnot of theO current listings, as opposed to a subscription?  That's the way I always boughtk them in the past.  r   -- nO ===============================================================================eM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxa: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)'O =============================================================================== O Otter, on dining with Bluto:"It's perfectly safe if you keep your arms and legsd 			away from his mouth."   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jul 2000 08:50:10 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.560753.killspam.00bb (Wayne Sewell)r= Subject: Re: Looking for VMS source code (any version really) . Message-ID: <dvoYuHo61cZV@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  R In article <FxIGCA.JGp@spcuna.spc.edu>, Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> writes:4 > Timothy Stark <sword7@grace.speakeasy.org> writes:K >> Ouch! What an expnesive source listings?!  I thought that it was $300 toyL >> $400.  I believe that it is much difficult to write VAX emulators withoutM >> device specifications like register specifications for devices.  I alreadyLL >> know about RH11 register specifications only but not others for VAX, etc. > J >   VMS used to ship with listings (on fiche) but as the industry changed,J > fewer customers actually used the listings, so they became an extra-costJ > option. I think you can still get a source tape (as opposed to listings) > for about $25K.  > G >> I believe that monitor/kernel source listings will help VAX emulatortH >> developement effectively.  That's why I had experience with my PDP-10B >> emulator developement due to TOPS-10 monitor sources.  Yes, VMS; >> operating system should be open-sourced like Linux, etc.  > K >   Go convince Microsoft to do that for Windows and then use the precedentA' > to convince Compaq to do the same 8-)g  L Microslop probably has an additional reason to not release the source code. 4 They would probably be embarrassed if anyone saw it.   -- sO ===============================================================================CM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx=: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)iO ===============================================================================-O Otter, on dining with Bluto:"It's perfectly safe if you keep your arms and legsp 			away from his mouth."   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jul 2000 15:46:24 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)= Subject: Re: Looking for VMS source code (any version really) 6 Message-ID: <8kffgg$d1p$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  K In article <396B1FB1.AA96E8F6@vrx.net>, Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net> writes:0  K   Rather than repeatedly and doggedly pursuing this discussion here in the rL   newsgroups, why not simply submit a formal request to OpenVMS Engineering @   for access to the particular sources or the source listings?    H   If the project is of general interest to Compaq and the Compaq OpenVMSF   customer base -- whether for an OpenVMS Freeware submission or for aG   commercial or other purpose -- access and (potentially) some general e5   assistance in the effort can sometimes be obtained.c  I   As part of the request, pass along the information on what and why and 4L   such, and the local product management team can then make the appropriate E   business decision.  A name, relevent business information, and the  <   associated contact address will be of interest, of course.  H   We have provided this and other access and assistance in the past.  I H   cannot predict what, if any, access will be provided, of course -- norJ   if the details of this particular project proposal would be of interest ,   to the OpenVMS Product Management staff.    H   If needed, I can pass an email request through to the OpenVMS Product    Management staff.   L :> in order to get started on the subscription (as a licensing requirement).@ :> I also believe the license prevents transfer to a third party/ :> (meaning you can only get them from Compaq).  :v" :a few were sold on ebay recently.     So?y  H   Few (if any) folks here in the newsgroup are in a particular position I   to discuss, debate, or otherwise posit the legality (or illegality) of tH   any particular eBay transfer of licensed software or related licensed G   goods or services.  These transfers are generally covered by at leastkI   one legal system and often by existing agreements, any of which may or i    may not permit such transfers.  2   IANAL and the other usual disclaimers all apply.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 21:50:30 +0500o From: Dan <dan@vrx.net>a= Subject: Re: Looking for VMS source code (any version really)l' Message-ID: <396B5056.31B51234@vrx.net>,   Hoff Hoffman wrote:h  M > In article <396B1FB1.AA96E8F6@vrx.net>, Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net> writes:e >aL >   Rather than repeatedly and doggedly pursuing this discussion here in theM >   newsgroups, why not simply submit a formal request to OpenVMS Engineering @ >   for access to the particular sources or the source listings?  : Finally, a man with a plan. Sounds good. How do I do this?    I >   If needed, I can pass an email request through to the OpenVMS Productr >   Management staff..  * Would you? I'll cobble something together.  I >   Few (if any) folks here in the newsgroup are in a particular position.J >   to discuss, debate, or otherwise posit the legality (or illegality) ofI >   any particular eBay transfer of licensed software or related licensedKI >   goods or services.  These transfers are generally covered by at leastmJ >   one legal system and often by existing agreements, any of which may or" >   may not permit such transfers.   granted.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 21:54:47 +0500  From: Dan <dan@vrx.net>a= Subject: Re: Looking for VMS source code (any version really)I' Message-ID: <396B5157.857CD87E@vrx.net>o  
 "P.Lj" wrote:l   > Yes, I agree here,N > "OpenVMS [Alpha] Internals and Data Structures" .or. [VAX] is great to start > with.h   read it. well, a long time ago.l  L > Source listings and patches, when "debuggning" systemcode it's a pain withM > new code, not in the listings, done that once,  what I believe is that theyt/ > only come with a major release of  VMS itselfu  > I'm actually interested in the OpenVMS Vax sources, not Alpha.   Dan.   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jul 2000 17:43:35 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)= Subject: Re: Looking for VMS source code (any version really)n6 Message-ID: <8kfmc7$eqg$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  A In article <396B5056.31B51234@vrx.net>, Dan <dan@vrx.net> writes:n :Hoff Hoffman wrote: : N :> In article <396B1FB1.AA96E8F6@vrx.net>, Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net> writes: :>M :>   Rather than repeatedly and doggedly pursuing this discussion here in theeN :>   newsgroups, why not simply submit a formal request to OpenVMS EngineeringA :>   for access to the particular sources or the source listings?J :2; :Finally, a man with a plan. Sounds good. How do I do this?L  D   Gather up information on what you want to do and why, with detailsC   on what sort of source listing access would be required, and what<E   you plan on doing with the source listings (re-use OpenVMS code in  E   your application, simply look at the code to learn about the kerneliB   and undocumented APIs, etc) and how you plan on disposing of any?   OpenVMS code (potentially) provided to you when you are done.b  J :>   If needed, I can pass an email request through to the OpenVMS Product :>   Management staff. : + :Would you? I'll cobble something together.k  G   Um, "cobble" is not the word that I would choose here, and a request eG   that was clearly cobbled together will (for better or for worse) not  I   be received quite as well as a request that is clearly thought through oG   and that provides most or all of the relevent parts of your business rF   plan and core technical requirements -- what you plan to do and whatE   you expect OpenVMS Engineering can do for you and why we should all F   be friends here -- that would be of interest to the OpenVMS Product     Manager(s) and business folks.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jul 2000 13:53:15 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)
 Subject: mimel. Message-ID: <8kf8sb$47m$1@info.service.rug.nl>  G I've played around a bit with the MIME utility.  A neat idea, and it's aG probably a good idea to make it standalone, rather than integrating it  E into VMS MAIL.  (Priority there should go into fixing the bugs which aD make MAIL/OLD a necessity, apparently some of which were introduced G during the C-rewrite (if it ain't broke, don't fix it).)  I guess I'll pE have to move those RFC 822 headers back to the top.  It is obviously sE very buggy.  Before I go on a rant (however politely and in whatever eH forum), it would be nice to have a list of known bugs and whether these  are on the list to be fixed.   Just to start out:   Why does it clear the screen?a  F Why, when exiting, does it screw up the terminal setting (i.e., leave H the MIME prompt on the same line as the new DCL prompt and the terminal  in insert mode)?  ! Why is there not a recall buffer?h  < Can one define a keypad as with the debugger, EDT, MAIL etc?   MIME> extr/att=1 Output File?. %MIME-E-NOFILNAME, File name must be specified/ %MIME-I-NOEXTRACT, Attachment was not extractedg  P %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=!XB, virtual address=!XH, PC=!XH  F It is not clear why sometimes it needs a file name to be specified andH sometimes not (OK, if it's specified in the headers it's not needed, butG if not it could create one on the fly and give the user the opportunity G to change it).  Also, if one naively hits return, one gets not only the H access violation above, but it goes into an infinite loop repeating this fatal error message. o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:11:12 -0400"+ From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>t Subject: Re: mime 1 Message-ID: <396AF2C0.6E93335A@trailing-edge.com>d   Phillip Helbig wrote:. > MIME> extr/att=1 > Output File?0 > %MIME-E-NOFILNAME, File name must be specified1 > %MIME-I-NOEXTRACT, Attachment was not extracted  > R > %SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=!XB, virtual address=!XH, PC=!XH  A Yeah, well, like most of the system components written in C it'lle9 probably take a couple of man-years to work out the error- conditions.a  H > It is not clear why sometimes it needs a file name to be specified andJ > sometimes not (OK, if it's specified in the headers it's not needed, butI > if not it could create one on the fly and give the user the opportunityi > to change it).  B *I* would rather require that the user specify the output filenameB every time.  Otherwise you'll run into problems with virus writers: sending other folks LOGIN.COM files or MAIL.MAI files that= may well overwrite the files of an unknowledgable VMS newbie. 5 We could end up with things not too dissimilar to the = viruses that infect Microsoft software, and I *don't* want tor go down that road.  A Heck, I imagine that if I encoded a file as SYS$SYSTEM:SYSUAF.DATe@ and E-mailed it to thousand SYSTEM accounts that at least ten of- them would extract it with the "default" nameM? without thinking about it as being a suspicious MIME default...r  ? (Not that I would ever do that, I'm just pointing out that evena> knowledgable folks can get too accustomed to accepting default output file names.)i   Tim.   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jul 2000 15:51:38 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) Subject: Re: mimee. Message-ID: <8kffqa$6eq$1@info.service.rug.nl>  < In article <396AF2C0.6E93335A@trailing-edge.com>, Tim Shoppa# <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> writes: i  C >*I* would rather require that the user specify the output filenameuC >every time.  Otherwise you'll run into problems with virus writersi; >sending other folks LOGIN.COM files or MAIL.MAI files that > >may well overwrite the files of an unknowledgable VMS newbie.6 >We could end up with things not too dissimilar to the> >viruses that infect Microsoft software, and I *don't* want to >go down that road.-  A Good point.  Perhaps there should be a logical SYS$MIME which, byl> default, points to SYS$SCRATCH.  OK, SYS$SCRATCH is by defaultC SYS$LOGIN, but any system manager worth his salt has something likea   $! SYS$SCRATCH $!A $ DEFINE/JOB SYS$SCRATCH DISK$SCRATCH:['F$GETJPI("","USERNAME")']    :-)o   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:28:23 GMTd= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)c- Subject: Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?)h0 Message-ID: <009ECE89.AD87CCBA@SendSpamHere.ORG>  a In article <B59009DB-24566@165.247.50.79>, "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> writes: 7 >On Mon, Jul 10, 2000 3:17 PM, Dan <dan@vrx.net> wrote:'( >>"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: >>K >>> There is an initial fee for the source listings service which is aroundnK >>> $2K.  Then there is an anual fee for the service which is about $65/mo.vK >>> I once remarked here that it is cheaper than my cable TV service month-n >>> ly fee.a >>L >>Don't have $2k, but would very happily pay someone the $65 for the monthly >>update... # >>If anyone would be kind enough...  > K >The last set of source listings I had contact with was around VMS 5.5.  AttG >that time, the license permitted use on a single system (or cluster, Il >think).H >The listings were not sharable or transferable.  If you needed listingsK >available on multiple systems, you were supposed to buy multiple licences.m  F I don't have the original signature agreement before me but I believe D it restricts the use of listings to a physical "office" site.  It isC a bit difficult to restrict the listings to a single machine.  They E are, after all, documentation.  When I got listings on fiche, I don't 1 recall being restricted to a single fiche viewer.o   G >So unless things have changed, any listing kit you obtain via ebay or  ? >some sharing scheme will be in violation of the license terms.r  D That could very well be but I doubt Compaq will hunt down the winner& of the ebay bid and shoot them dead.    C >Or does anyone care about that these days?  Last I heard, stealinge) >intellectual property is still stealing.   E ...like hacking into a site and lifting copies of a product sold withT a signature license agreement?   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM    ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2000 08:54:53 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen).- Subject: Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?)T+ Message-ID: <Ty5h2118KOCb@eisner.decus.org>B  a In article <B59009DB-24566@165.247.50.79>, "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> writes:e8 > On Mon, Jul 10, 2000 3:17 PM, Dan <dan@vrx.net> wrote:( >>"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: >>K >>> There is an initial fee for the source listings service which is aroundtK >>> $2K.  Then there is an anual fee for the service which is about $65/mo.nK >>> I once remarked here that it is cheaper than my cable TV service month-  >>> ly fee.u >>L >>Don't have $2k, but would very happily pay someone the $65 for the monthly >>update...h# >>If anyone would be kind enough...s > L > The last set of source listings I had contact with was around VMS 5.5.  AtH > that time, the license permitted use on a single system (or cluster, I	 > think).sI > The listings were not sharable or transferable.  If you needed listings L > available on multiple systems, you were supposed to buy multiple licences. > H > So unless things have changed, any listing kit you obtain via ebay or @ > some sharing scheme will be in violation of the license terms. > D > Or does anyone care about that these days?  Last I heard, stealing* > intellectual property is still stealing.  7 And offensive to those who _have_ paid the legal price.f   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 22:00:59 +0500. From: Dan <dan@vrx.net>a- Subject: Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?)=' Message-ID: <396B52CA.6D19BA07@vrx.net>=   Robert Deininger wrote:=  L > The last set of source listings I had contact with was around VMS 5.5.  AtH > that time, the license permitted use on a single system (or cluster, I	 > think).2I > The listings were not sharable or transferable.  If you needed listingseL > available on multiple systems, you were supposed to buy multiple licences.  N not transferrable? hmm so selling them is illegal? depends on the license they get I presume.   >gG > So unless things have changed, any listing kit you obtain via ebay or:@ > some sharing scheme will be in violation of the license terms.  5 Good to know. Don't know about "lending" the code. :)l* Canadian copyright law is a bit funny too.   --" -There are always possibilities...   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:34:23 GMTl From: pavichal@my-deja.com1 Subject: Re: Netscape Fasttrack for OpenVMS 7.2-1e) Message-ID: <8ket7f$a3s$1@nnrp1.deja.com>t  - In article <39652B14.82D7B79D@theblakes.com>,a*   Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> wrote: > pavichal@my-deja.com wrote:  >l > > Excellent!! That worked.A > > I want to be able to perform other functions like pinging ande viewing H > > queues etc.. but I get insufficient privs. Do you know what the best wayu= > > to allow fasttrack access to other information is without> comprimising > > the system?? >uH > A CGI can only do whatever the FastTrack account is allowed to do, and I doF > NOT recommend that you give the FastTrack account any privs!! If you want torG > "see" things that the FastTrack account can't normally see, adding anu ACL toG > allow READ access by FastTrack might be an idea. But remember, ANYONE= withD > access to your server will be able to access the CGI. If this is a problem,F > then you should consider requiring authentication for certain pages, butt@ > remember that the authentication mechanism is not bulletproof. >  >u  A My Fasttrack account has OPER,NETMBX,TMPMBX, SYSGBL and PRMGBL as=C priviledges(recommended in the docs), however the process that runslF as the server only seems to have NETMBX and TMPMBX. Why doesn't it useB the others? Also, I set up an ACL and it works from an interactiveC login, but doesn't when you use it from Fasttrack(Non-interactive).cC Why doesn't Fasttrack inherit the properties of its parent process?     & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.B   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:34:30 GMTt From: pavichal@my-deja.com1 Subject: Re: Netscape Fasttrack for OpenVMS 7.2-1s) Message-ID: <8ket7p$a43$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   - In article <39652B14.82D7B79D@theblakes.com>,l*   Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> wrote: > pavichal@my-deja.com wrote:r >  > > Excellent!! That worked.A > > I want to be able to perform other functions like pinging andr viewing H > > queues etc.. but I get insufficient privs. Do you know what the best wayt= > > to allow fasttrack access to other information is withoutt comprimising > > the system?? >iH > A CGI can only do whatever the FastTrack account is allowed to do, and I doF > NOT recommend that you give the FastTrack account any privs!! If you want tooG > "see" things that the FastTrack account can't normally see, adding an. ACL toG > allow READ access by FastTrack might be an idea. But remember, ANYONEa withD > access to your server will be able to access the CGI. If this is a problem,F > then you should consider requiring authentication for certain pages, butP@ > remember that the authentication mechanism is not bulletproof. >t >r  A My Fasttrack account has OPER,NETMBX,TMPMBX, SYSGBL and PRMGBL asgC priviledges(recommended in the docs), however the process that runssF as the server only seems to have NETMBX and TMPMBX. Why doesn't it useB the others? Also, I set up an ACL and it works from an interactiveC login, but doesn't when you use it from Fasttrack(Non-interactive). C Why doesn't Fasttrack inherit the properties of its parent process?l    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:25:12 GMTn' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> 1 Subject: Re: Netscape Fasttrack for OpenVMS 7.2-1,- Message-ID: <396B1227.9009D441@theblakes.com>r   pavichal@my-deja.com wrote:e  C > My Fasttrack account has OPER,NETMBX,TMPMBX, SYSGBL and PRMGBL assE > priviledges(recommended in the docs), however the process that runspH > as the server only seems to have NETMBX and TMPMBX. Why doesn't it useD > the others? Also, I set up an ACL and it works from an interactiveE > login, but doesn't when you use it from Fasttrack(Non-interactive).eE > Why doesn't Fasttrack inherit the properties of its parent process?a  K The "non-default" privs (OPER, SYSGBL, PRMGBL) are needed for the FastTrack K server itself and are turned off before and sub-processes are created since H you would not usually want your CGI's to run with these privs. There areJ some logicals you can define to leave these privs on in case you really doD want your sub-processes to have these privs, but the default is OFF.  L Can't think of anything the server does that would make an ACL not behave as0 expected. What exactly is the ACL you are using?   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 14:47:12 GMTp From: pavichal@my-deja.com1 Subject: Re: Netscape Fasttrack for OpenVMS 7.2-1y) Message-ID: <8kfc1a$l8t$1@nnrp1.deja.com>i  - In article <396B1227.9009D441@theblakes.com>,r*   Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> wrote: > pavichal@my-deja.com wrote:a >yE > > My Fasttrack account has OPER,NETMBX,TMPMBX, SYSGBL and PRMGBL as G > > priviledges(recommended in the docs), however the process that runsaF > > as the server only seems to have NETMBX and TMPMBX. Why doesn't it useLF > > the others? Also, I set up an ACL and it works from an interactiveG > > login, but doesn't when you use it from Fasttrack(Non-interactive).[G > > Why doesn't Fasttrack inherit the properties of its parent process?h > C > The "non-default" privs (OPER, SYSGBL, PRMGBL) are needed for thew	 FastTracknG > server itself and are turned off before and sub-processes are createdh since,F > you would not usually want your CGI's to run with these privs. There arelB > some logicals you can define to leave these privs on in case you	 really do F > want your sub-processes to have these privs, but the default is OFF. >fD > Can't think of anything the server does that would make an ACL not	 behave ase2 > expected. What exactly is the ACL you are using? >n >.  C The ACL I am using is (IDENTIFIER=FT_READ,ACCESS=READ) and has beenvC given to a log file. The identifier FT_Read has been granted to theAE fasttrack user. This works through an interactive login but not underh
 fasttrack.    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.w   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2000 08:49:15 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)i2 Subject: Re: Open-source Database system available+ Message-ID: <oUYzxyJCXlUE@eisner.decus.org>t  m In article <396A64A9.5B99AD27@merlin.arc.nasa.gov>, "Arthur E. Ragosta" <ragosta@merlin.arc.nasa.gov> writes:w  ? > In fact... what's to keep Compaq from porting it???       :-)c   1. Bureaucracy.p 2. Fear of antagonizing Oracle. " 3. Fear of antagonizing Microsoft. 4. Priorities.  B As usual, I think DEQ should stick to things that only they can doE (VMS, development tools, etc.) unless they have _lots_ of spare time. E Looking at features missing from VMS, I don't think that is the case.    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jul 2000 14:27:16 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)t2 Subject: Re: Open-source Database system available, Message-ID: <8kfas4$27u6$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  3 In article <396A64A9.5B99AD27@merlin.arc.nasa.gov>, :  "Arthur E. Ragosta" <ragosta@merlin.arc.nasa.gov> writes: |> "Arthur E. Ragosta" wrote:e |> aL |> > Perhaps this has already been posted, but Inprise/Borland has announced |> > theM |> > availability of an open-source beta for InterBase 6.0.  It would be somet	 |> > kindMK |> > of awesome if someone with free time (what's that?) could port this top	 |> > VMS.l: |> > Current versions are for Solaris, Windows, and Linux. |> >- |> >  http://www.interbase.com/opn/downloads/m |> > |> > ar- |> -@ |> In fact... what's to keep Compaq from porting it???       :-)  H You mean other than the fact that there is nothing in it for them??  :-)   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:21:04 -0700 2 From: "Randy Park" <rjpark@mindspring.com.nospaam>2 Subject: Re: Open-source Database system available3 Message-ID: <8kfhe0$n48$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>e  A Interbase used to be available on VMS.  In fact its head designers@ was heavily involved in the design of Datatrieve many years ago.C I even have a temporary copy of Interbase on my VAX, taking up diskx space.  @ Arthur E. Ragosta <ragosta@merlin.arc.nasa.gov> wrote in message- news:396A6415.72546942@merlin.arc.nasa.gov...tI > Perhaps this has already been posted, but Inprise/Borland has announced  > theaJ > availability of an open-source beta for InterBase 6.0.  It would be some > kindH > of awesome if someone with free time (what's that?) could port this to > VMS.7 > Current versions are for Solaris, Windows, and Linux.m >=* >  http://www.interbase.com/opn/downloads/ >l > ar >o   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:32:09 -0500 (EST)i1 From: "Robert J. Slover" <slover@Rose-Hulman.Edu> 2 Subject: Re: Open-source Database system availableV Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000711123013.5544B-100000@rocinante.admin.rose-hulman.edu>  A I've always wondered about this.  I noticed that Interbase on thes> old NeXT had lots of symbol names in the executable that began7 with something like RDB$...  This made me go 'hmmm...?'h   --Robert  & On Tue, 11 Jul 2000, Randy Park wrote:  C > Interbase used to be available on VMS.  In fact its head designer B > was heavily involved in the design of Datatrieve many years ago.E > I even have a temporary copy of Interbase on my VAX, taking up disk  > space. > B > Arthur E. Ragosta <ragosta@merlin.arc.nasa.gov> wrote in message/ > news:396A6415.72546942@merlin.arc.nasa.gov...sK > > Perhaps this has already been posted, but Inprise/Borland has announcedo > > thetL > > availability of an open-source beta for InterBase 6.0.  It would be some > > kindJ > > of awesome if someone with free time (what's that?) could port this to > > VMS.9 > > Current versions are for Solaris, Windows, and Linux.i > >o, > >  http://www.interbase.com/opn/downloads/ > >s > > ar > >e >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:19:42 +0100e/ From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>e7 Subject: Re: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clusters 7 Message-ID: <009ECEB2.5F9A4D3E.13@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>l   Since I started this ...  & jlsue <jlsuexxxz@dialupnet.com> wrote:G > On Tue, 04 Jul 2000 15:37:01 +0100, Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancyY# > <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:  >  > >jlsue wrote:c > > 4 > >> On Thu, 29 Jun 2000 12:58:38 +0100, Nigel Arnot) > >> <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> wrote:s > >> > >> >F > >> >For once I find myself in almost complete agreement with Andrew. > >> >@ > >> >The only marketing lies concerning unix that I encounteredC > >> >emanated from Digital. If there ever was a conspiracy, it was-2 > >> >within the Digital Corporation, not outside. > >> > > >>I > >> That wasn't my experience at all.  My experience, as someone workingrD > >> *outside* of Digital, was that Unix vendors were making lots ofH > >> promises that they couldn't deliver in the business-critical world.  > >> For several years, in fact. > >>H > >> I never mentioned anything about a conspiracy, someone else startedI > >> that FUD.  However, it is a fact of my work experience that I had to E > >> constantly fight against the Unix lies that they could deliver asH > >> stable, quality product that had the reliability and scalability ofK > >> our VMSclusters.  Hell, they didn't even do "upgrades" back then - youeI > >> just wiped out your OS and re-installed fresh (though you could keepRJ > >> your other file systems).  And don't forget, there was nothing like aH > >> "disaster-mode" disk restore from backups, if your system disk just" > >> happened to flake-out on you. > >>E > >> But the MGMs of the world were entranced by the headlines of therA > >> press, and the bull coming out of the Gartners of the world,c? > >> forgetting that these are just self-fulfilling prophecies.D6 > >> Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq2 > >> (get rid of the xxxx in my address to e-mail) > >c= > >If this does not qualify for a conspiracy theory rant thenw > >I don't know what does. > >V > C > Well Andrew, if you actually read the note, you'd see that it haseF > nothing to do with conspiracy, and it wasn't even a rant.  It was my > own observations at the time.  > F > The Unix vendors each had something to sell, Sun just happened to beD > the loudest FUD spreader of the bunch.  No conspiracy, each vendorF > just had something to sell.  And the media Gartners of the world areH > *always*  trying to find some headline that will grab/keep customers &F > advertisers... Unix just happened to be the "new kid in town"... butF > what goes around comes around, especially in this fickle, short-term > minded world.i >   J No - Digital was the most serious FUD spreader by far, because they were a more credible source.   < If I hear a salesman knocking the competition when promotingL his own product, I don't take it at face value. Indeed, competition-knockingH is "the last resort of a bankrupt salesman". I imagine most others think? similarly. At the very least, "he would say that, wouldn't he!"s  I However, when I start hearing a company knocking one of its OWN products,iE I have to take note. Digital for quite a while was loudly singing thelD praises of Ultrix / Digital Unix, and deprecating VMS. Then it addedM NT as an accompaniment. "Stop knocking VMS" was regularly shouted at Digital.o And regularly ignored.    H Gartner et al got the message: Digital, for watever reason, did not wantJ to promote VMS. They started calling it "legacy", something that would be J put out to grass in a year or two. Digital didn't correct them. Indeed, itJ wncouraged them to talk about "migration". Merely failing to dispute what B was being said lent credibility to it. Digital went much further.   M A better way to generate FUD is hard to imagine. And I still don't understand < why they did this. Digital paid the ultimate price. Tru64 isD still number four (if it hasn't slipped behind Linux recently). NT, K unsurprisingly,  made lots of money for Bill Gates and little for Digital. B  G Conspiracy or mere incompetence? I don't know. In any case, it's water h under the bridge now.c  h 	Yours,o
 		Nigel Arnot - 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                   h  7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."a   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2000 11:09:12 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young); Subject: Re: OpenVMS loses big, was:  RE: Compaq advertisesn+ Message-ID: <33jGSiUtjLIi@eisner.decus.org>g  K Regarding "merging" VMS and Tandem.  An early Galaxy Roadmap showed severaldO planned methods for shared memory allocation.  Memory fades but one was "Fast",bK one "Contiguous", the one pertinent to this discussion is "Fault Tolerant".,  / EV7 supports lock-step instructions for Tandem.   L So maybe 2 fault tolerant pieces are there in the future for VMS engineeringK to use at an OS level.  One would imagine there is strong incentive to makeeE VMS even more bullet proof.  Whether that is their goal ( making VMS oL fault tolerant ) in the future design directions of VMS is fun to speculate E about.   Given there are a slew of third party apps that periodically0G take out VMS (crash it) one can only imagine the hurdle seems very highMK indeed.  But maybe software and hardware firewalls between Galaxy instanceseH is the more reasonable goal in the design (speculation pure and simple).   Robt    e In article <gv7cmsk96acppiutldgqoki4lsko0jg8na@4ax.com>, Art Rice <arice.NOcSPAM@ue.itug.org> writes: . > On Thu, 06 Jul 2000 14:22:25 -0400, JF Mezei' > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:y >  >>Art Rice wrote: C >>> Do you really think they are going to lower the price of TandemaJ >>> Hardware and Software?  This is historically one of the most expensiveI >>> hardware and software combinations  in existence.  The Alpha will notiH >>> make the machines any less expensive than MIPS and the port to Alpha >>> has to be paid for somehow.n >>P >>No, but where VMS currently has an edge on Tandem, is in performance since VMSI >>benefits from ALPHA and 64 bit computing. Tandem has equal/better faultiU >>tolerance to VMS, although VMS's clustering does offer a few things Tandem doesn't.7 >>N >>But once Tandem has moved to Alpha, then VMS loses its performance edge. WhyN >>should Compaq then continue to support both Tandem and VMS with very similar >>customers and missions ? >>P >>Wouldn't it be much better to somehow be able to combine both OS into a single >>unified one ?  > A > Start coding...  OpenVMS is AFAIK a "general purpose OS".   NSKa> > (Guardian) was designed from the ground up for OLTP.  I mean@ > everything.  That's one of the reasons they were so far behindH > everyone else implementing TCP/IP.  Founded around 1974, EXPAND, X.25,E > and SNAX handled all the intersystem communicatioin that was neededo > until sometime around 1990.  u > G > The Tandem OS depends on a specific machine architecture.  We are notYG > just talking about a few redundant components.  Nearly all componentsiE > inside the box are redundant. (drive pairs can be split but why payoA > the high cost if you are going to destroy the fault tolerance?)m > E > One thing Tandem needs to fix ( if they want to expand further than,H > web based apps) is terminal support.  Pathway applications can only beE > defined as Tandem or 3270.  If you don't tell it to support 3270 it : > won't even do that.  (security through obscurity again.) > F > If you have a friend in your organization or city that has access toG > TIM  (the Tandem documentation CDs) have him/her show you the manuals ? > on "Introduction to Tandem NonStop Systems", "Introduction tooG > Pathway", and any of the server description manuals. for Example: the1# > K20000 server Descripsion Manual.c > H > If the two OSs are to be merged, it will probably take til 2010 to get% > the first Beta version ready to go.5 > @ >>Such a bigger OS would have greater market share, more staminaI >>to ward off serious systems wannabes (NT et all) and also less internal L >>political fights as to which of the two will be the golden child and which0 >>will be sent to a corner and told to be quiet. >>I >>Yeah, Compaq will continue to support each system as long as it remains 5 >>profitable... We've seen what such statements do...a >  > -- h > Art Rice   **a% > Special Data Processing Corporation ( > --------------------------------------) > All opinions expressed are mine and do s' > not reflect the views of my employer.'   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:50:08 +0200b5 From: "GWDVMS::MOELLER" <moeller@gwdvms.dnet.gwdg.de>r6 Subject: PK2K & Vs2000 EPROM patches, in the year 2000. Message-ID: <E13C0QK-0004Uf-00@gwdu42.gwdg.de>  6 There have been no news about PK2K for over a year ...< and in addition, the larger part of Y2K has passed, without @ a celebration being held for the microVAX 2000/VAXstation 2000 !  < So, in spite of underwhelming feed-back, I _finally_ decided= to re-order my FTP directories, putting the `current' version'; (V1.3) of PK2K & the EPROM patch - no changes from the one  ? which formerly could be found in the [.PREVIEW] subdirectory - ( into  ' 	{ftp,http}://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/vms/pk2k/ * and	GWDW04.GWDG.DE"ANONYMOUS"::[.VMS.PK2K]  ; The `historical' and [.TEST] versions which resided in that-< directory until a few minutes ago, have moved to [.OLD] and  [.OLD.TEST], repectively.l   ---l  7 Other FTP directories of interest to VAXstation lovers:-  ( 	{ftp,http}://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/vms/ka420/4 	- EPROM patches for Vs3100 (system disk >1GB, etc.)  ) 	{ftp,http}://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/vms/dk-552/ F 	- DKDRIVER patches for VMS V5.5-2 (ARRE/AWRE bits, ZIP, JAZ, MO, ...)   ---n  ) In fact, there's one piece of late news:    ? I lately re-usurped the SCSI JAZ drive for which I had made up  ? the DKDRIVER-JAZ patch in 1997, when there was no media I couldsA _write_ on VMS ... Finally I tried & succeeded (w/o any changes) e> in putting a bootable copy of VMS V5.5-2 on the JAZ disk, and D booting one of my "Vs2000-plus" (Vs2000 with patched EPROM) from it.  ? F$GETDVI("SYS$SYSDEVICE","maxblock") would return 2091050, and  > a SCSI INQUIRE command "iomega  jaz 1GB         H.7209/18/96".   ---e   Enjoy,M Wolfgang J. Moeller, Tel. +49 551 201-1516/-1510, moeller@gwdvms.dnet.gwdg.deuM GWDG, D-37077 Goettingen, F.R.Germany     |    Disclaimer: No claim intended!hM http://www.gwdg.de/~moeller/ ---- <moeller@gwdg.de> ---- <w.moeller@ieee.org>y   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 16:39:55 GMT,- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>e- Subject: Re: print/delete does not behave ...n( Message-ID: <396B4DD3.8BD7E4BC@ohio.edu>   "Richard L. Dyson" wrote:9 >    [snip]  ? >         Note, my files that were being "deleted" probably hadaG > S:RWE protections, but that is also true on all my systems (5.5, 6.2,T6 > 7.1, and 7.2) and SYSTEM has BYPASS on by default...  @ Some people reading this might become confused by the overlap inD terminology between the username "SYSTEM" and its access, on the oneE hand, and the "System" of "System, Owner, Group, World," on the otherbH hand.  Many VMS operating system software components restrict themselvesF to the access permitted according to the "System" category, regardlessA of the access permitted to a process logged in under the "SYSTEM"t
 username.   	 						RDPn   -- uB ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 02:02:54 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>y- Subject: Re: print/delete dows not behave ... , Message-ID: <396AB883.3102C21E@videotron.ca>   Jerome LAURET wrote:Y > $ print/queue=chem_ps17/delete _$4$DKA200:[USERS.JLAURET.SCRATCH]TEMP.PS /retain=alwaysu6 >   Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Status6 >   -----  -------         --------     ------  ------F >    1621  TEMP            JLAURET           8  Retained on completionO >          Submitted 10-JUL-2000 21:31:24.93 /FORM=DCPS$DEFAULT (stock=DEFAULT)r/ >          /NOTIFY /PRIORITY=100 /RETAIN=ALWAYSJD >          File: _$4$DKA200:[USERS.JLAURET.SCRATCH]TEMP.PS;1 /DELETE? >          Completed 10-JUL-2000 21:31:56.80 on queue CHEM_PS17s    L If, as someone else pointed out, the symbiont does not have delete privilegeL for the TEMP.PS file, shouldn't the "retained on completion" text not have a/ "could not delete file" error message instead ?s  6 Shouldn't the symbiont provide such an error message ?  L Would such an error be logged in the accounting log file if print accounting were enabled ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:50:36 +0100l* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>- Subject: Re: print/delete dows not behave ...o+ Message-ID: <8keqle$nok@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>8  < "Jerome LAURET" <jlauret@?.chem.sunysb.edu> wrote in message( news:396a79a8_3@dilbert.ic.sunysb.edu...  A > File protection:    System:RWE, Owner:RWED, Group:RWE, World:REe  < Have you tried with System having delete access to the file?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:27:41 -0300f1 From: "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com>>- Subject: RE: print/delete dows not behave ... K Message-ID: <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A333631@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>,  E How about changing the file protection to S:WRED, I would imaging themG printer symbiont is running under the system account which des not havei& delete access to the file you mention. Thanks,a Darren   > ----------B > From: 	jlauret@?.chem.sunysb.edu[SMTP:jlauret@?.chem.sunysb.edu]) > Reply To: 	jlauret@mail.chem.sunysb.edui' > Sent: 	Monday, July 10, 2000 11:34 PMi > To: 	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com0 > Subject: 	Re: print/delete dows not behave ... >  > 7 > In article <396A70DA.B2220323@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei-( > <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > : > |>You might wish to try SET QUEUE queue_name /RETAIN=ALL > |> > |>and then print the job.  > 7 > 	I did the following test as suggested by your note :n >  > L > $ PRINT/QUEUE=CHEM_PS17/DELETE _$4$DKA200:[USERS.JLAURET.SCRATCH]TEMP.PS;1 > /RETAIN=ERROR " > $ SHOW QUEUE CHEM_PS17 /FULL/ALL > [...]h > 6 >   Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Status6 >   -----  -------         --------     ------  ------8 >    1614  TEMP            JLAURET           8  Printing? >          Submitted 10-JUL-2000 21:21:45.07 /FORM=DCPS$DEFAULTo > (stock=DEFAULT) & >          /PRIORITY=100 /RETAIN=ERRORH >          File: _$4$DKA200:[USERS.JLAURET.SCRATCH]TEMP.PS;1 (printing))	 > /DELETEe > C >   after a while, I could not see the entry in the queue. However,f > 8 > $ DIR/FULL _$4$DKA200:[USERS.JLAURET.SCRATCH]TEMP.PS;1; > Size:            8/9          Owner:    [LACEY_R,JLAURET]-$ > Created:   10-JUL-2000 21:20:04.24( > Revised:   10-JUL-2000 21:20:04.38 (1) > Expires:   <None specified>c! > Backup:    <No backup recorded>a > Effective: <None specified>. > Recording: <None specified>@  > File organization:  Sequential > Shelved state:      Online" > Caching attribute:  WritethroughF > File attributes:    Allocation: 9, Extend: 0, Global buffer count: 0& >                     No version limitH > Record format:      Variable length, maximum 0 bytes, longest 80 bytes6 > Record attributes:  Carriage return carriage control > RMS attributes:     None > Journaling enabled: NoneA > File protection:    System:RWE, Owner:RWED, Group:RWE, World:REn > Access Cntrl List:  None > Client attributes:  None >  > Total of 1 file, 8/9 blocks. > H >    remained. GV displays no errors on that PS file. The queue does not	 > displayr >  > J > $ print/queue=chem_ps17/delete _$4$DKA200:[USERS.JLAURET.SCRATCH]TEMP.PS > /retain=always6 >   Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Status6 >   -----  -------         --------     ------  ------F >    1621  TEMP            JLAURET           8  Retained on completion? >          Submitted 10-JUL-2000 21:31:24.93 /FORM=DCPS$DEFAULT  > (stock=DEFAULT) / >          /NOTIFY /PRIORITY=100 /RETAIN=ALWAYSeD >          File: _$4$DKA200:[USERS.JLAURET.SCRATCH]TEMP.PS;1 /DELETE? >          Completed 10-JUL-2000 21:31:56.80 on queue CHEM_PS17u >  >  >    The file is still there.	 >  >  >  > |>C > |>The queue entry will remain after the job, and you might get an  > indication of 6 > |>the status (whether it printed succesfully or not) > |>L > |>Also, you may wish to stop the queue, then print the file, and do a SHOWH > |>ENTRY/FULL to see if the /DELETE does indeed get put in for the job. > |>D > |>/DELETE is , I beleive, an entry specific qualifier, not a queue > qualifier. >  > 	Answered by the above.y >  >  > |>I > |>Is it possible that perhaps, before the upgrade, the PRINT command on  > yourH > |>system have been redefined to have /DELETE as default (either in the= > |>DCLTABLES.EXE, or as a symbol defined in SYLOGIN.COM ????r > |>B > 	That's not the case. I used VERB to check this out. Show symbol > shows 
 > nothing. >  > 	Gotta be something else :{d >  >  >  > -- e8 >                   Jerome LAURET S.U.N.Y. @ Stony Brook& >        ,,,,,      Dept. of Chemistry- >       ( o o )     Stony Brook NY 11794-3400U= >   ---m---U---m--------------------------------------------- ( >   E-mail: jlauret@mail.chem.sunysb.edu> >   URL   : http://nucwww.chem.sunysb.edu/jlauret/jlauret.html >     F **********************************************************************C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and J may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.M They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom theyrL are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copying  of this message is prohibited.   Bank of BermudarF **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:52:09 -0400u- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>d- Subject: Re: print/delete dows not behave ...i, Message-ID: <smmd51f5574@corp.supernews.com>  = JF Mezei wrote in message <396AB883.3102C21E@videotron.ca>...t >...C >If, as someone else pointed out, the symbiont does not have delete 	 privilegenF >for the TEMP.PS file, shouldn't the "retained on completion" text not have a0 >"could not delete file" error message instead ?  D No, because the file is only deleted after the entry is removed fromE the queue. If you have /RETAIN=ALL then the file is not deleted until * after the entry is deleted from the queue.  7 >Shouldn't the symbiont provide such an error message ?i  , It should, but I have never seen any errors.  B >Would such an error be logged in the accounting log file if print
 accounting >were enabled ?I  C I believe (IIRC talks I had with DEC a long time ago) that even thecF accounting record is created before the file is deleted so you can not even check there.n    ; I recall this being a bug a few versions back, maybe it haseA resurfaced? I did a quick search of DSN and found this from V5.4.r    ?  2.  V5.4 introduced certain features to improve job controllereC      performance, including the following enhancement documented inU0      the "VMS Systems Dispatch", February, 1991:  C           "When /DELETE is specified, deletion of files is deferrede?           to allow multiple deletions at one time.  This avoids 1           locking the queue file multiple times."   B      However, the job controller takes an "unreasonable" amount ofE      time to schedule the deletions of jobs.  This is a problem whichn)      has been reported to VMS Engineeringg    E I also recall that in 6.0 DEC changed the way PRINT/DELETE worked foroC C2 security. I believe it was set so that the user that the job wasaE charged to (i.e. PRINT/USER=) needed R and D access to the file. So Il8 do not think System needs DELETE privilege for the file.  5 I would log a call through your local support office.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:18:19 GMTs/ From: "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> - Subject: Re: print/delete dows not behave ... ) Message-ID: <396AF46A.693E0479@uiowa.edu>K   Jerome LAURET wrote: > N >         I have a problem with PRINT/DELETE. It does not delete the submitted' > file. I tried on the folowing printer: > O > Printer queue CHEM_PS17, idle, on NUCAX0::SBCHCP::, mounted form DCPS$DEFAULT  >  (stock=DEFAULT)A >   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FORM=DCPS$DEFAULT (stock=DEFAULT)) A >   /NOENABLE_GENERIC /LIBRARY=DCPS_LIB Lowercase /OWNER=[SYSTEM] H >   /PROCESSOR=DCPS$SMB /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE); >          (IDENTIFIER=CHEM_QUIZ,ACCESS=READ+SUBMIT+MANAGE)n > K >         Does anyboddy have an idea of the problem or no how to fix this ?m > , > Operating System version : OpenVMS AXP 7.28 > When : since doomed day (i.e. upgrade from 6.2 to 7.2)  B 	I had this same problem (and I guess I still do) in my three nodeC cluster that has v7.1 *AND* a v7.2 node in it.  When ever the queue G manager was running on the v7.2 node, no "Print /Delete" commands wouldeE ever work actually delete.  When I rebooted that 7.2 node to move the > manager to one of the 7.1 nodes, it all started working again.  = 	If I bring all my nodes up to v7.2-1, does anyone think thise problem will return?  7 	Note, my files that were being "deleted" probably had tE S:RWE protections, but that is also true on all my systems (5.5, 6.2, 4 7.1, and 7.2) and SYSTEM has BYPASS on by default...   Regards, Rick -- FH Richard L. Dyson                                    rick-dyson@uiowa.eduH  _   _      _____                http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/H | | | |    |_   _|   Systems Analyst                     O: 319/335-1879H | | | | of   | |     The University of Iowa            FAX: 319/335-17536 | \_/ |     _| |_    Department of Physics & Astronomy-  \___/     |_____|   Iowa City, IA 52242-1479w   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2000 13:06:28 -0500/ From: jlauret@?.chem.sunysb.edu (Jerome LAURET)b- Subject: Re: print/delete dows not behave ...>. Message-ID: <396b5414_3@dilbert.ic.sunysb.edu>  Y In article <sml0pg91nu43@corp.supernews.com>, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> writes:s< |>Jerome LAURET <jlauret@?.chem.sunysb.edu> wrote in message* |>news:396a79a8_3@dilbert.ic.sunysb.edu... |>>u |>> Gotta be something else :{ |>>t' |>What version of DCPS are you running?c |>G |>AFAIK: The current release is 1.7, with 1.7-1 being shipped with someS |>printers.g |> |>-Johne |>wb8tyw@qsl.network |> |> |>  ? 	Hum. Yes indeed, Maybe a too old version (1.5). Maybe I shouldn! upgrade before crying out loud ??e           -- e6                   Jerome LAURET S.U.N.Y. @ Stony Brook$        ,,,,,      Dept. of Chemistry+       ( o o )     Stony Brook NY 11794-3400n;   ---m---U---m---------------------------------------------a&   E-mail: jlauret@mail.chem.sunysb.edu<   URL   : http://nucwww.chem.sunysb.edu/jlauret/jlauret.html   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2000 13:24:30 -0500/ From: jlauret@?.chem.sunysb.edu (Jerome LAURET)i- Subject: Re: print/delete dows not behave ... . Message-ID: <396b584e_3@dilbert.ic.sunysb.edu>  \ In article <396AB883.3102C21E@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: |>Jerome LAURET wrote:[ |>> $ print/queue=chem_ps17/delete _$4$DKA200:[USERS.JLAURET.SCRATCH]TEMP.PS /retain=alwaysy8 |>>   Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Status8 |>>   -----  -------         --------     ------  ------H |>>    1621  TEMP            JLAURET           8  Retained on completionQ |>>          Submitted 10-JUL-2000 21:31:24.93 /FORM=DCPS$DEFAULT (stock=DEFAULT)a1 |>>          /NOTIFY /PRIORITY=100 /RETAIN=ALWAYSoF |>>          File: _$4$DKA200:[USERS.JLAURET.SCRATCH]TEMP.PS;1 /DELETEA |>>          Completed 10-JUL-2000 21:31:56.80 on queue CHEM_PS17h |> |>N |>If, as someone else pointed out, the symbiont does not have delete privilegeN |>for the TEMP.PS file, shouldn't the "retained on completion" text not have a1 |>"could not delete file" error message instead ?l |>8 |>Shouldn't the symbiont provide such an error message ? |>N |>Would such an error be logged in the accounting log file if print accounting |>were enabled ? |>  H 	Indeed indeed. This is par tof the puzzle. The /RETAIN does not exhibitO any errors so I am not sure of the sequence of events. Besides, I used to print J to that queue before without worrying about the protections. In fact, if I perform the same operation i.e.0  P $ print/queue=chem_ps17/delete _$4$DKA200:[USERS.JLAURET.SCRATCH]TEMP.PS /retain  I   on an OpenVMS 6.2 node, guess what ?  The file is afterward deleted !!!g   N    YES, I repeat :: On my 6.2 node the /DELETE works, on any 7.2 nodes it does not !!!.  r         -- 26                   Jerome LAURET S.U.N.Y. @ Stony Brook$        ,,,,,      Dept. of Chemistry+       ( o o )     Stony Brook NY 11794-3400a;   ---m---U---m---------------------------------------------r&   E-mail: jlauret@mail.chem.sunysb.edu<   URL   : http://nucwww.chem.sunysb.edu/jlauret/jlauret.html   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2000 13:36:32 -0500/ From: jlauret@?.chem.sunysb.edu (Jerome LAURET)S- Subject: Re: print/delete dows not behave ...v. Message-ID: <396b5b20_3@dilbert.ic.sunysb.edu>  E 	OK. I have to drop this post or at least. The problem might be more  O complex than initially described. The current state of things is that it works :. again but the trail of events were as follow :    I Yesterday : print/delete would work on 6.2 not on 7.2 (regardless of prot              etc...) P Evening   : all 7.2 node crashed due to a switch problem (unwilling event having'             an interesting side effect)r1 Today     : print/delete works again on all nodesh  E 	In between, the queue manager changed location from a 7.2 node to a n/ 6.2 node. Does that make sens to any of you ?? n       -- p6                   Jerome LAURET S.U.N.Y. @ Stony Brook$        ,,,,,      Dept. of Chemistry+       ( o o )     Stony Brook NY 11794-3400I;   ---m---U---m---------------------------------------------C&   E-mail: jlauret@mail.chem.sunysb.edu<   URL   : http://nucwww.chem.sunysb.edu/jlauret/jlauret.html   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2000 13:44:58 -0500/ From: jlauret@?.chem.sunysb.edu (Jerome LAURET)l- Subject: Re: print/delete dows not behave ...-. Message-ID: <396b5d1a_3@dilbert.ic.sunysb.edu>  [ In article <396AF46A.693E0479@uiowa.edu>, "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> writes:c |>Jerome LAURET wrote: |>> P |>>         I have a problem with PRINT/DELETE. It does not delete the submitted) |>> file. I tried on the folowing printeri |>> Q |>> Printer queue CHEM_PS17, idle, on NUCAX0::SBCHCP::, mounted form DCPS$DEFAULTn |>>  (stock=DEFAULT)C |>>   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FORM=DCPS$DEFAULT (stock=DEFAULT))SC |>>   /NOENABLE_GENERIC /LIBRARY=DCPS_LIB Lowercase /OWNER=[SYSTEM]bJ |>>   /PROCESSOR=DCPS$SMB /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE)= |>>          (IDENTIFIER=CHEM_QUIZ,ACCESS=READ+SUBMIT+MANAGE)r |>> M |>>         Does anyboddy have an idea of the problem or no how to fix this ?m |>> . |>> Operating System version : OpenVMS AXP 7.2: |>> When : since doomed day (i.e. upgrade from 6.2 to 7.2) |>D |>	I had this same problem (and I guess I still do) in my three nodeE |>cluster that has v7.1 *AND* a v7.2 node in it.  When ever the queueaI |>manager was running on the v7.2 node, no "Print /Delete" commands would G |>ever work actually delete.  When I rebooted that 7.2 node to move thed@ |>manager to one of the 7.1 nodes, it all started working again. |>? |>	If I bring all my nodes up to v7.2-1, does anyone think this< |>problem will return? |>9 |>	Note, my files that were being "deleted" probably had -G |>S:RWE protections, but that is also true on all my systems (5.5, 6.2,u6 |>7.1, and 7.2) and SYSTEM has BYPASS on by default... |>
 |>Regards, |>Rick |>-- rJ |>Richard L. Dyson                                    rick-dyson@uiowa.edu    	 	Richard,-  < 	Thanks for confirming this. Now we are making BIG progress.K I came up with the same conclusion in my preceding posting/reply (I should EJ definitly read all articles before answering). For me, whenever the queue K manager is on a 7.2 node, the /DELETE fails. If on a 6.2 node, it succeeds  I everywhere. This problem did not occur before because we were all at 6.2.eK Even older than that, I had not seen this problem neither with 6.1/6.2 mix.     H 	Now that we are actually 2 to have seen that (volonteer to try this outF in mix environment would be really great), is DEC/Compaq aware of thisK and does a patch actually exists for this problem ??? I could not find one.e: Anyboddy with a support contract, can you try and call ...       --  6                   Jerome LAURET S.U.N.Y. @ Stony Brook$        ,,,,,      Dept. of Chemistry+       ( o o )     Stony Brook NY 11794-3400g;   ---m---U---m---------------------------------------------a&   E-mail: jlauret@mail.chem.sunysb.edu<   URL   : http://nucwww.chem.sunysb.edu/jlauret/jlauret.html   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:32:14 +0100y2 From: Chris Sharman <Chris.Sharman@CCAgroup.co.uk> Subject: Support. Message-ID: <396AE99E.5B39B3D8@CCAgroup.co.uk>  C Just got a letter from Compaq this morning (11-Jul) telling me thatlH support stopped as of 1-Jul, and I can now buy prior version support forB 7.1. Does this mean I get a rebate on my support contract (which I renewed on 1-Jul) ?   H I'd have expected about 90 days notice of this, not minus 10, to give usG time to schedule the upgrade. We've been avoiding 7.2 anyway because of F the mixed press it's had, and 7.3's not here yet. This is really poor.  H I went to the website to see what that says about support. I didn't findG any pointers to VMS. Legacy systems told me about prior version; EuropeeG told me about generic support; America/Asia isn't for me; and of course.H there were lots of pages for PCs, Tru64, even Linux & non-stop. No clearH indication of when 7.1 moved to prior version, or when it was announced.  
 Chris SharmanI   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:17:37 +0100U- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>R Subject: Re: Support) Message-ID: <396AF441.2A65C0EE@bbc.co.uk>A   Chris Sharman wrote:  E > Just got a letter from Compaq this morning (11-Jul) telling me that J > support stopped as of 1-Jul, and I can now buy prior version support forD > 7.1. Does this mean I get a rebate on my support contract (which I > renewed on 1-Jul) ?U > J > I'd have expected about 90 days notice of this, not minus 10, to give usI > time to schedule the upgrade. We've been avoiding 7.2 anyway because ofIH > the mixed press it's had, and 7.3's not here yet. This is really poor. >:J > I went to the website to see what that says about support. I didn't findI > any pointers to VMS. Legacy systems told me about prior version; EuropeUI > told me about generic support; America/Asia isn't for me; and of coursecJ > there were lots of pages for PCs, Tru64, even Linux & non-stop. No clearJ > indication of when 7.1 moved to prior version, or when it was announced.  . It was announced a long time back, before y2k.   Seei  E http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvms/products/YEAR-2000/extsup.htmln   >t > Chris Sharman:   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uko  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those oft MedAS or the BBC.l   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 17:46:46 +0200e8 From: "Kris G.G. Clippeleyr (aka Qkcl)" <kesu@xs4all.be>Q Subject: Re: UNICENTER PERFORMANCE DATA COLLECTOR - DOES NOT INSTALL ON VMS 7.2!!S* Message-ID: <8kffjj$n63$1@news1.xs4all.nl>   Hi,e  L Recently I installed UNIDC022 (the data collector) on an OpenVMS V7.2-1 box,G on which the ADARTL.EXE (image ident = V7.2-13) was present, but when I  tried toL start collecting data (ADVICE COLLECT START), the process (running the image3 PSDC$DC_V5.EXE) stops with the message DCEXCEPTION.WC According to the help, I should submit an SPR. But an SPR to CA????E Anyone any ideas ??l   ThanxU   -- Kris G.G. Clippeleyr (aka Qkcl) & VMS Wizard in training, Guru wanna be!  # In a world without walls and fencesi who needs windows and gates?   OpenVMS is today what Microsoft  wants Windows NT v8.0 to be!  > Adrian Birkett wrote in message <3969ECFD.6C111725@csc.com>... >Dave, >nL >Be aware that we have Advise-IT running on Alpha 7.2 - this also required aG >newer version of the ada run-time library (ADARTL.EXE ident = 7.2-12).e >i >Just a thought. >e >Ade >l >e >DaveSmith wrote:  >t
 >> Hello ,J >>       The company I work for bought Unicenter Performance Analyzer/DataH >> Collectors 2.5 years ago for 20K plus from CA. (Just after CA boughtK >> it from Digital - A Big mistake by Digital was to sell off PolyCenter!).ME >> It is running on Alpha VMS 7.1. When I recently tried to install aoF >> data collector on Alpha VMS V7.2 it failed with a 'version mismatch error'L >> please relink. I contacted CA who told me that I either need to go to TNGH >> or ADVISEIT. To upgrade to ADVISEIT it would cost 40K plus!!!!!. The: >> TNG route wasn't worth looking at (very expensive!!!!).6 >>     Is there any way round my installation problem? >>
 >> regards
 >> Dave Smithd >l   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 18:13:42 +0200*, From: "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl>Q Subject: Re: UNICENTER PERFORMANCE DATA COLLECTOR - DOES NOT INSTALL ON VMS 7.2!! * Message-ID: <8kfh59$rjh$1@buty.wanadoo.nl>  I Compaq's PAWZ is still a young product (although already at V2.0), but itr looks impressive!   K It has the disadvantage in that it's based on WindowsNT with SQLserver, butr; it has the BIG advantage that it has nothing to do with CA!t  	 Bart Zorno OpenVMS consultant  8 "Dave Pampreen" <davepampreen@home.com> wrote in message5 news:A%va5.31244$fR2.294037@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com...*G > Is there any software out there that is a better replacment for this?  >,L > We did an upgrade about a year ago and never bought the CA updated package > due to cost (shock)t >o > Dave
 > -----------s > Dave Pampreen5 > GKN Automotive, Inc. >F >z6 > "Adrian Birkett" <abirkett@csc.com> wrote in message# > news:3969ECFD.6C111725@csc.com...o	 > > Dave,b > >dD > > Be aware that we have Advise-IT running on Alpha 7.2 - this also required > aoJ > > newer version of the ada run-time library (ADARTL.EXE ident = 7.2-12). > >o > > Just a thought.  > >d > > Adet > >e > >y > > DaveSmith wrote: > >.
 > > > Hello ,E? > > >       The company I work for bought Unicenter Performanced
 Analyzer/Data K > > > Collectors 2.5 years ago for 20K plus from CA. (Just after CA boughtl@ > > > it from Digital - A Big mistake by Digital was to sell off
 PolyCenter!).oH > > > It is running on Alpha VMS 7.1. When I recently tried to install aI > > > data collector on Alpha VMS V7.2 it failed with a 'version mismatchc > error'K > > > please relink. I contacted CA who told me that I either need to go to  > TNG K > > > or ADVISEIT. To upgrade to ADVISEIT it would cost 40K plus!!!!!. TheS= > > > TNG route wasn't worth looking at (very expensive!!!!).f9 > > >     Is there any way round my installation problem?d > > > 
 > > > regardsc > > > Dave Smith > >  >t >"   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 19:30:36 +0010i% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  Subject: Re: Vax in Canada ?5 Message-ID: <01JRNHPQ72CI001LZF@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>u  D >As a valued member of the Baycrest team you will use your 3 or more	 >years oflK >experience working with VAX to help us support our G/L and payroll systems K >while we prepare to move them to a more advanced system.  At the same time 8                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Does this mean Alpha VMS?o  G >you will take training, at our expense, to become certified as a MCSE.dF                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  P Oh dear, yes I should have realised.  Hmm, certified *is* the correct word here.  , I'll go back to the thread porting *to* VMS.  G [Not a bigot (:-), I just see no point in working with fecal deposits.]R   Regards, Paddy   Paddy O'Brien, Transmission Development,E
 TransGrid, PO Box A1000, Sydney South,  NSW 2000, Australiaa   Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050& Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  M Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people,o; but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.E   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jul 2000 13:11:51 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)' Subject: Re: VAXstation 3100 won't bootW6 Message-ID: <8kf6en$bbs$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  d In article <963267765.249038@sarabi.AtlanticCo.ca>, SEAN SMITH <tssmith@chaka.AtlanticCo.ca> writes:L :Well, I've finally got my 1 GB SCSI drive and OpenVMS hobbyist's license... ..J :But the VAX won't boot off of my SCSI CD-ROM.  It's a generic quad-speed H :CD-ROM (Sanyo, I believe) and the tests come back just fine.  However, K :when I try to boot from the CD-ROM to install OpenVMS, I get a stack dump.t= :It doesn't look like the VAXstation is accessing the CD-ROM.      OpenVMS VAX version?D   Does the CD-ROM drive support 512-byte block transfers?  (It must)   Which 1 GB SCSI disk drive?.:   What disk are you booting?  (The hobbyist CD-ROM media?)2   Is the SCSI correctly configured and terminated?D   Any duplicate SCSI units?  (All storage widgets *and* the host ID)+   What is the current device configuration?eA   Details of the boot command and the stack dump would be useful. ?   What are the exact message(s) displayed around the stackdump? @   What is the general VAXstation 3100 configuration?  (mem, etc)E   What is displayed as output during the power-up self-test messages?|  @   Pointers to various hardware-oriented websites are in the FAQ.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jul 2000 12:55:36 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) Subject: VMS in practice. Message-ID: <8kf5g8$36h$1@info.service.rug.nl>  F I was just at the police station in Groningen to file charges against F the unknown person who nicked my Blaupunkt London CD-player and radio F out of my car last Sunday (and stupid oaf he must have been, since it G will not work at all without the card being inserted, which apparently wC has prevented thieves with at least a minimum of intelligence from tI stealing it in the past, although this is the third time my car has been 5I broken into in the last 6 months (after 20 years of no break-ins at all;  G what is this world coming to---there must be a way to blame Bill Gates tJ somehow!)).  I was presently surprised to see an LK401 keyboard and VT420 I terminal on the policewoman's desk.  I recognised the VMS login prompts, .I and she fired up some program written with the SMG routines to enter the  C information.  There was a fancy new laser printer connected to the rC terminal by a serial line, which she used to print the stuff out.  l" Efficient and perfect for the job.  F There has been a lot of talk about affordable VMS recently.  However, I there must be many other operations like the Groningen police.  Consider  F a billybox on every desk---certainly more expensive than a VT420, and I there is the danger of the employees playing solitaire, catching viruses cH etc.  Sure, the VMS box might cost a bit more, for whatever reason, but 3 they probably need just one and not scores of them.d     --M Phillip Helbig                       Email .............. helbig@astro.rug.nlkM Kapteyn Instituut                    Email ................. helbig@man.ac.uklM Rijksuniversiteit Groningen          Tel. ................... +31 50 363 66471M Postbus 800                          Fax .................... +31 50 363 6100eM NL-9700 AV Groningen                 Web ... http://www.astro.rug.nl/~helbig/u  5 My opinions are not necessarily those of my employer.u  N <A HREF=" http://gladia.astro.rug.nl:8000/helbig/hire/hire.html ">HIRE ME!</A>   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:06:41 +0100t- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>d Subject: Re: VMS in practice) Message-ID: <396B29F1.5E3771B7@bbc.co.uk>t   Phillip Helbig wrote:   G > I was just at the police station in Groningen to file charges againstuG > the unknown person who nicked my Blaupunkt London CD-player and radio G > out of my car last Sunday (and stupid oaf he must have been, since itEH > will not work at all without the card being inserted, which apparentlyD > has prevented thieves with at least a minimum of intelligence fromJ > stealing it in the past, although this is the third time my car has beenJ > broken into in the last 6 months (after 20 years of no break-ins at all;H > what is this world coming to---there must be a way to blame Bill GatesK > somehow!)).  I was presently surprised to see an LK401 keyboard and VT420aJ > terminal on the policewoman's desk.  I recognised the VMS login prompts,J > and she fired up some program written with the SMG routines to enter theD > information.  There was a fancy new laser printer connected to theC > terminal by a serial line, which she used to print the stuff out..$ > Efficient and perfect for the job.  = Comiserations on the hassle, Philip, but these things happen.d   >b > G > There has been a lot of talk about affordable VMS recently.  However,eJ > there must be many other operations like the Groningen police.  ConsiderG > a billybox on every desk---certainly more expensive than a VT420, andcJ > there is the danger of the employees playing solitaire, catching virusesI > etc.  Sure, the VMS box might cost a bit more, for whatever reason, but 5 > they probably need just one and not scores of them.7 >n  L Aha, but you have failed to realize that a "green-screen" system like this ,I once deployed, is very stable and requires little in the way of continuedf maintenance 
 compared to a E PC-on-every-desk-and-you-havn't-got-a-hope-of-fixing-the-applications-R sort of operation, so its less work for the barely technically competant, and what
 else wouldN they be doing? Its probably reassuring for non-technical management too, after all, who wantsC a system that only a few hothead DECie types can understand anyway?l  N  In VMS's niche markets (which seem to be basically those where human lives or vast quantities ofN cash are at stake), stability, reproducibility and availability are important. Compaq unfortunatelyO does not appear to see a market for VMS outside of this niche, especially if it  means treading on thelR toes of their Wintel and Tru64 markets. So, the rest of the world thinks computing is about Control-Alt-Deletet? and friends, and uptime measured in hours not months and years.(   Only slightly sarcasticE    --E6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukD  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:40:32 +0100n  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com Subject: Re: VMS in practice> Message-ID: <80256919.0050C48F.00@qedilc01.qedi.quintiles.com>  O This may be the site (or set of sites) that I was discussing with people I knew K at the DECUS/ITUG conference in Vienna.  They did work for the local policeuI force and moved half of the cluster whilst the force continued to use theoO systems.  IIRC, the boss asked when they were going to move the systems and was P told they've moved.  He didn't quite believe that services could be sustained by< half of the cluster whilst the other systems were moved.....   Phillip Helbig commented: H >>>I was just at the police station in Groningen to file charges againstE the unknown person who nicked my Blaupunkt London CD-player and radio E out of my car last Sunday (and stupid oaf he must have been, since it F will not work at all without the card being inserted, which apparentlyB has prevented thieves with at least a minimum of intelligence fromH stealing it in the past, although this is the third time my car has beenH broken into in the last 6 months (after 20 years of no break-ins at all;F what is this world coming to---there must be a way to blame Bill GatesI somehow!)).  I was presently surprised to see an LK401 keyboard and VT420 H terminal on the policewoman's desk.  I recognised the VMS login prompts,H and she fired up some program written with the SMG routines to enter theB information.  There was a fancy new laser printer connected to theA terminal by a serial line, which she used to print the stuff out.." Efficient and perfect for the job.  E There has been a lot of talk about affordable VMS recently.  However, H there must be many other operations like the Groningen police.  ConsiderE a billybox on every desk---certainly more expensive than a VT420, anduH there is the danger of the employees playing solitaire, catching virusesG etc.  Sure, the VMS box might cost a bit more, for whatever reason, buth6 they probably need just one and not scores of them.<<<   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 17:09:37 +0200r5 From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@whitehouse.nl>r Subject: Re: VMS in practice- Message-ID: <396B38B1.9F2E2F22@whitehouse.nl>   ! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:t > Q > This may be the site (or set of sites) that I was discussing with people I knewhM > at the DECUS/ITUG conference in Vienna.  They did work for the local police K > force and moved half of the cluster whilst the force continued to use thes > systems. o  7 Most (if not all) of the dutch police regions use VMS. p   Oswald   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2000 09:33:33 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)0 Subject: Re: VMS Junior Sys Admin, Bracknell, UK+ Message-ID: <q+tgZIK$$LYg@eisner.decus.org>   a In article <80256918.0065BF11.00@qedilc01.qedi.quintiles.com>, steven.reece@quintiles.com writes:   G > The company I work for have an immediate requirement for a permanent 3G > VMS Junior System Administrator at our Bracknell offices here in the p > UK.   D    Being permanently junior might not be an attractive post for some    folks.  8-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:10:31 +0100   From: steven.reece@quintiles.com& Subject: Re: VMS Prior Version Support> Message-ID: <80256919.003D89B2.00@qedilc01.qedi.quintiles.com>   Chris,L I have mentioned this on a couple of occasions, plus I'm still waiting for a) definitive statement for the site I'm at.a  P The official VMS Engineering line as at the second week in April was that V7.1-2P on Alpha and V7.1 on VAX would be going into the Prior Version Support programmeP at 1st July 2000.  There would be no support for VMS 7.1, 7.1-1H1 and 7.1-1H2 on Alpha.  N UK CSC (and specifically the information came to our supplier from a person byL the name of Abigail King, although she doesn't talk to customers apparently)L reckon that they are going to offer local support on Alpha v7.1, 7.1-1H1 andI 7.1-1H2 without sustaining engineering.  This I believe means that no newdH patches will be written, nothing will be escalated to Engineering and ifO something goes wrong you'll be told "Well, upgrading is your fix path so that's  that".  J UK CSC also reckon that v7.1-2 (Alpha) and v7.1 (VAX) will be offered withH sustaining engineering so that problems can be escalated to engineering.  P As I say, I'm still waiting for the signed statement to confirm or deny this butN then I have been for quite a few weeks now.  I was also told at one point thatN the information had gone out as a burst e-mail to DSNlink connected customers,# but I'm still waiting for that too.s   Steve.   Chris Sharman wrote:F >>>Just got a letter from Compaq this morning (11-Jul) telling me thatH support stopped as of 1-Jul, and I can now buy prior version support forB 7.1. Does this mean I get a rebate on my support contract (which I renewed on 1-Jul) ?5  H I'd have expected about 90 days notice of this, not minus 10, to give usG time to schedule the upgrade. We've been avoiding 7.2 anyway because of-F the mixed press it's had, and 7.3's not here yet. This is really poor.  H I went to the website to see what that says about support. I didn't findG any pointers to VMS. Legacy systems told me about prior version; EuropeBG told me about generic support; America/Asia isn't for me; and of coursewH there were lots of pages for PCs, Tru64, even Linux & non-stop. No clearK indication of when 7.1 moved to prior version, or when it was announced.<<<J   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 05:47:01 -0500 % From: Chris Scheers <asi@airmail.net>t Subject: Re: WTB: Microvax2000O Message-ID: <C8ED580C50150C4C.C45ECF41C5DB20CF.5C4F78BB99224C5E@lp.airnews.net>m   Beyonder wrote:s > I > If anyone has a microvax2000 for sale (not vaxstation) please email me!.  E Are you aware that the only differences between the MicroVAX 2000 and.@ VAXstation 2000 are the medallion and the position of one jumper internally?w  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------D$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  G 817-237-3360 (Voice)    817-237-3074 (Fax)    Internet: asi@airmail.neth   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 13:27:42 GMTd! From: Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net>- Subject: Re: WTB: Microvax2000' Message-ID: <396B20C9.76F4D07C@vrx.net>r   Chris Scheers wrote:  G > Are you aware that the only differences between the MicroVAX 2000 and B > VAXstation 2000 are the medallion and the position of one jumper
 > internally?u   Yeah, I just found that out.  + So, anyone got a VS2000 for sale, cheap? :)a   ------------------------------    Date: 11 Jul 2000 13:44:10 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)Z Subject: Re: WTB: Microvax2000+ Message-ID: <FCdvKvnpwQZF@eisner.decus.org>m  w In article <C8ED580C50150C4C.C45ECF41C5DB20CF.5C4F78BB99224C5E@lp.airnews.net>, Chris Scheers <asi@airmail.net> writes:n > Beyonder wrote:  >> dJ >> If anyone has a microvax2000 for sale (not vaxstation) please email me! > G > Are you aware that the only differences between the MicroVAX 2000 andiB > VAXstation 2000 are the medallion and the position of one jumper
 > internally?6  + And the software license that came with it.    ------------------------------   Date: 11 Jul 2000 02:44 CSTo' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)e7 Subject: Re: [Q] Does VMS support IDE for system disks? - Message-ID: <11JUL200002441934@gerg.tamu.edu>y  ' mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu writes...EW }In article <8JUL200000092325@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes: Z }>Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515) writes... }>} K }>}        Thanks David.  That's the  sort  of  thing  I was interested in,nK }>}    that the IDE would "work" (and I just received confirmation from JaylK }>}    Olson that his DS10L came with VMS 7.2-1 FIS on the 10GB IDE drive),nK }>}    but  that there _are_ performance differences between IDE and  SCSI,AK }>}    the SCSI being "UltraSCSI" in the present case.  Can  someone  quote ! }>}    bandwidth numbers for IDE?  }>}  }<SNIP>f }>C }>It depends on the IDE. It can be anywhere from 16.6 MB/sec max up E }>to 100MB/sec (although that is brand spanking new - too new for the-. }>DS10 to have even if they were so inclined). }>% }>If I recall the naming correctly...j }>Plain old IDE is 16.6MB/sec.> }>"ATA Ultra DMA/33" is 33MB/sec. (Sometimes called Ultra 33.)K }>"ATA Ultra2 DMA/66" is 66MB/sec. (Sometimes called Ultra 66, or Ultra-2.)eM }>I suspect you see the progression here and can guess what the new 100MB/sec I }>version is likely to be called when it hits the market (which may be as  }>soon as later this month). } K }That may be the hardware numbers, but that isn't what you're going to see  J }on OpenVMS.  I've got U2W LVD disks on our DS10 which are nominally 20Mb/F }sec each on an 80 Mb/sec SCSI bus, but they max out at something likeL }3.6Mb/sec when doing a disk to disk copy or a CREATE/FDL for a large file. L }I believe that's because they insist on writing everything straight throughK }to the oxide and don't use any of the disk write caching.  There's no way tM }to enable that mode in base OpenVMS (that I know of) but there is a utility 1K }around to do it.  I have not tried it though.  As I said, I did not do any I }benchmarking of the IDE drives on OpenVMS and cannot supply a number forp }their real performance.   } G }Compaq must have measured this, but I'd wager $10 they don't supply ita4 }anywhere a mortal might find it on their web site.  } 
 }David Mathogo  J Of course I don't disagree - the above was just the bus speeds which showsI that they are not much slower than SCSI. Current SCSI is mostly 80MB/sec oI (with the brand spanking new speeds at 160MB/sec, but I don't know if VMS J supports any Ultra160 SCSI controllers) and current IDE is mostly 66MB/secK (with the newest announced variety being 100MB/sec - although this probably F isn't even available in a product you can actually purchase yet). ThisH difference is not very large, particularly considering that you can onlyG put two IDE disks on a controller (well, on a controller channel - mostsK on-motherboard controllers have two channels each of which is independantly ! operating at the specified rate).t  F IDE disks also have at least the same raw to/from disk transfer rates.I They have reasonably large on-disk cache/buffer (generally at least .5MB,iK on up to at least 2MB), but VMS will presumably make no more use of it thanaK it does with the memory on the SCSI disk - unless, perhaps, it doesn't turneL it off on the IDE disks, in which case you'd find that a VMS system with IDEK disks is faster than one with SCSI disks. But I expect it turns the cachingeH off on the IDE disks too. If you enable caching for both you might get aJ slightly better throughput for the SCSI disks than the IDE disks since theM SCSI disks should be smarter and do more for you in the way of I/O reordering H for requests in the queue and suchlike, but I'm not sure how much better1 since IDE disks are smarter than they used to be.P  J The net result is that with one disk per controller, IDE should be roughlyL equal in speed with SCSI as long as the particular variety of IDE (and SCSI)K is at least as fast as the peak raw transfer rate of the disk (if it isn't, H you add some additional slowdown to the already relatively slow default,M non-caching, I/O that VMS does). I'm not sure how they would compare with tworO disks per controller, but I suspect that SCSI wins out by a small ammount then.e   --- Carl   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.385 ************************ears of no break-ins at all;  G what is this world coming to %ZA$F:]"5!	EW<ߎ|GCmcrCzIE]Kx(GD;*"IRn@!rt8LJ;)|}3`mj AirBaGд[s|sGY\_!{1 "Yh(@Ml|-vVϠ0ڮ2άtQvk=QltYeK,<`7^ Խǜ䗢k;.ag׌~faS-:ea#Z8
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