1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 17 Jul 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 396       Contents: Re: Building TK50's  Re: Building TK50's  Re: Decwrite: where to get?  Re: Decwrite: where to get?  Re: Decwrite: where to get?  Re: Decwrite: where to get?  DEQNA - was Re: Building TK50's  Re: DHCP$ Re: Differences in Fortran versions?$ Re: Differences in Fortran versions?$ Re: Differences in Fortran versions?$ Re: Differences in Fortran versions?$ Re: Differences in Fortran versions?$ Re: Differences in Fortran versions? DJE Systems in the OVMS FAQ * DSSI-Terminator not present or not working. Re: DSSI-Terminator not present or not working. Re: DSSI-Terminator not present or not working4 Re: got to remember to STOP trying to use OpenVMS...D RE: I/O caching and UNIX evaluations (was: Re: got to remember ..	.)I Re: I/O caching and UNIX evaluations (was: Re: got to remember ..      .) C Re: I/O caching and UNIX evaluations (was: Re: got to remember ...) @ Re: Looking for VAX->Alpha SCAN port? (was: VMS Pascal question)' Re: Mac-Decnet via Webster Multiport LT  Re: RGB VLC Monitor Question Sun may GPL StarOffice TCPIP with no name server % terminal speeds on console connectors  TK50Z-GA vs. TK50Z-FA ?? TK50Z-GA vs. TK50Z-FA ?? Re: TK50Z-GA vs. TK50Z-FA ?? RE: UCX and DHCP Re: VMS Pascal question > Re: vms$common - syscommon problems after retoring system disk> Re: vms$common - syscommon problems after retoring system disk> Re: vms$common - syscommon problems after retoring system disk  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 16:49:49 -0400 2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Building TK50's6 Message-ID: <200007161649_MC2-AC75-590@compuserve.com>  E         The DEQNA was Digital's first try at implementing an Ethernet J controller for the Q-Bus.  Under what we now consider normal network load= s J it exhibited problems so severe that you wouldn't want to contaminate you= r 0 garbage can with one!  It was BROKEN.  BaDLy!!!!  G         Digital offered an extremely generous trade in on the DEQNA for  several years during =  G and after the period when it was being desupported.  There are not many D around any more;  if you actually have a  DEQNA, drive an iron spike. through its heart and bury it at a crossroads!      1 Message text written by INTERNET:sms@antinode.org A >From: Veli =3D?iso-8859-1?Q?K=3DF6rkk=3DF6?=3D <korkko@decus.fi>   H > If I recall things correctly, DEQNA support ceases COMPLETELY at V6.0.D > Cluster support ended at V5.4-3 or at V5.5(-2). Cannot speak aboutE > other protocols like LAT and DECnet but I would expect them to work  > at say V5.5-2.       Notes in my archives suggest:  J       According to the release notes for VMS V5.5 (1991), starting with V= MSJ    V5.4-3, the DEQNA was not supported by the VAXcluster software, and "V= MSJ    V5.5 withdraws support for the DEQNA device, except for access using t= heF    QIO or ALTSTART interfaces.  Within 18 months, a release of the VMSH    operating system will withdraw _all_ support for the DEQNA; after youH    install that future release, the Ethernet driver will place the DEQNA9    device in an OFFLINE state, rendering it inoperative."   H    Presumably, "that future release" was V6.0, but VMS would pretty much  ignore a DEQNA from V5.5 onward. <    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 21:12:22 GMT ( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> Subject: Re: Building TK50's' Message-ID: <Fxt6wM.2Aq@spcuna.spc.edu>   2 Richard B. Gilbert <DRAGON@compuserve.com> writes:G >         The DEQNA was Digital's first try at implementing an Ethernet L > controller for the Q-Bus.  Under what we now consider normal network loadsL > it exhibited problems so severe that you wouldn't want to contaminate your2 > garbage can with one!  It was BROKEN.  BaDLy!!!!  K   Actually, they did a rev of the DEQNA that fixed the problems, but it was H pretty horrific - there was a whole daughterboard on top of the originalI board and loads of wires between the boards. As I recall, this was rev. M I or thereabouts. Earlier fixes just had the usual piggybacked chips and so ! forth, not a whole daughterboard.   I   Given that the DEQNA was driven by an 8031 (a close relative of the CPU H in an IBM PC's keyboard) and the amount of hackery involved in the laterB ECO's, they probably did the right thing when they desupported it.  - 	Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com 5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USA    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 11:21:44 -0700 ! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com $ Subject: Re: Decwrite: where to get?C Message-ID: <OF0B7609D3.0C0C1A85-ON8825691E.0064C091@HEALTHNET.COM>   J I have an entire condist at home for Alpha VMS 7.2 (or it may be 7.1). CanH anyone comment on the legality of my making a copy of the right disk for James?   Shane           B smith_j@removeit.cqm.co.uk (James Smith) on 07/15/2000 10:39:38 AM   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  cc:   % Subject:  Re: Decwrite: where to get?       H >You can't download it.  In order to get it you'll need to find a CD-ROMG >with the kit on it.  Unfortunatly most of the layered products covered E >by the hobbyist program aren't on the Hobbyist CD.  There is only so H >much you can fit on one CD and they had to pick and choose the productsI >that they felt would be the most desired.  An entire Condist set of CD's 0 >is something like 16 CD's for one architecture. >  >               Zane >  bummer - cheers anyway   James S    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 11:35:56 -0700 ! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com $ Subject: Re: Decwrite: where to get?C Message-ID: <OF87406455.108D8970-ON8825691E.0066003C@HEALTHNET.COM>   C Hmm, maybe a DVD would be a good idea. Does VMS support DVD yet? My H colleague here found a SCSI DVD player a few months ago, so the hardware side's possible.   Shane           E wayne@tachysoft.xxx.293778.killspam.0223 (Wayne Sewell) on 07/15/2000  12:17:57 PM    To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  cc:   % Subject:  Re: Decwrite: where to get?     F In article <TXRb5.588$sp6.178001@typhoon.aracnet.com>, "Zane H. Healy"$ <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes:1 > James Smith <smith_j@removeit.cqm.co.uk> wrote: / >> the hobbyist license seems to cover decwrite  > K >> i've looked about, but cant find a download source - anybody know of one  ?  > I > You can't download it.  In order to get it you'll need to find a CD-ROM  withJ > the kit on it.  Unfortunatly most of the layered products covered by theH > hobbyist program aren't on the Hobbyist CD.  There is only so much you can K > fit on one CD and they had to pick and choose the products that they felt H > would be the most desired.  An entire Condist set of CD's is something like > 16 CD's for one architecture.   K Well, yes, but only the first nine or so have anything useful on them.  The K high numbered CDs have stuff like Japanese COBOL and Swahili Motif on them. J Still, your point is valid.  9 CDs worth of software won't fit on a single CDG any more than 16 will.  Maybe we ought to have a hobbyist condist.  :-)      Wayne  --O ===============================================================================   8 Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738 wayne@tachysoft.xxx 8 http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.htmlK change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O ===============================================================================   J Otter, on dining with Bluto:"It's perfectly safe if you keep your arms and legs$                away from his mouth."   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Jul 2000 22:13:59 GMT. From: smith_j@removeit.cqm.co.uk (James Smith)$ Subject: Re: Decwrite: where to get?7 Message-ID: <8F73E9CD4smithjremoveitcqmcou@212.41.43.3>    > K >I have an entire condist at home for Alpha VMS 7.2 (or it may be 7.1). Can I >anyone comment on the legality of my making a copy of the right disk for  >James?  >  >Shane >     * it's a vax i've got - but thanks anyway :)   James S    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 22:00:02 -0500 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> $ Subject: Re: Decwrite: where to get?- Message-ID: <397276B2.5B6E647A@earthlink.net>   " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > L > I have an entire condist at home for Alpha VMS 7.2 (or it may be 7.1). CanJ > anyone comment on the legality of my making a copy of the right disk for > James?  H Actually, as soon as I figure out who to ask (Rich Marcello?), I'm gonnaG look into the possibility of putting out a Hobbyist Layered Product CD. G Given what the Hobbyist license covers, it might all fit on a single CD G or two, given certain concessions - like maybe ZIPping the savesets and ? .PCSI files and putting the disk(s) out as ISO-9660 (or ISO/ODS & co-mapped, if I can get that to work).   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 13:06:17 -0500 ) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> ( Subject: DEQNA - was Re: Building TK50's7 Message-ID: <141c01bfef50$8fe2f0a0$020a0a0a@xile.realm>   4 Steven M. Schweda <sms@antinode.organization> wrote:" >    Notes in my archives suggest: > I >       According to the release notes for VMS V5.5 (1991), starting with  VMS H >    V5.4-3, the DEQNA was not supported by the VAXcluster software, and "VMSI >    V5.5 withdraws support for the DEQNA device, except for access using  the H >    QIO or ALTSTART interfaces.  Within 18 months, a release of the VMSJ >    operating system will withdraw _all_ support for the DEQNA; after youJ >    install that future release, the Ethernet driver will place the DEQNA; >    device in an OFFLINE state, rendering it inoperative."  > J >    Presumably, "that future release" was V6.0, but VMS would pretty much" > ignore a DEQNA from V5.5 onward.  B On VMS 5.5-2 the only thing I have seen work on a DEQNA is CMU-IP.  I I do recall that some of the 3.x releases of UCX would also work with the   DEQNA according to their S.P.D.s  + I do not know about the third party stacks.    -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------   Date: 16 Jul 2000 19:03:57 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)  Subject: Re: DHCP ' Message-ID: <8kt0ut$rrk$1@joe.rice.edu>   " TGS (tgsi@bellatlantic.net) wrote:G : I am running OVMS 7.2-1.  Using UCX and I am interested in setting up  : DHCP.  : I : Can anyone offer any advice or instructions, websites maybe.  Any ideas  : are appreciated. : 	 : Thanks   : Jim Maroun : tgsi@bellatlantic.net     ,   http://www.openvms.digital.com:8000/#tcpip%   DIGITAL TC/IP Services for OpenVMS    . According to the Software Product Description:  1   http://www.digital.com/info/SP4646/SP4646HM.HTM 2   DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Version 5.0A  A 5.0A supports a DHCP server configuration, but not a DHCP client   configuration.    4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 15:52:46 -0600 (MDT) ) From: John Nebel <nebel@athena.csdco.com> - Subject: Re: Differences in Fortran versions? F Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0007161533370.4911-100000@athena.csdco.com>   Dan,  G No trouble here with newer compilers.  We started with Fortran 77 / VMS E 3.5 and haven't had to do very much recoding to satisfy the compiler.   N The default behavior of spaces on formatted input in F90 caused some problems F as leading spaces left justified integers (unexpectedly large values).  E fortran/nooptimize/nolist/warn=noalign/align=(reco=pack) took care of = record alignment problems and a few subtle bugs (/nooptimize)   C Otherwise the compiler just warned about bad programming technique,  fortunately not too often.  
 John Nebel         $ On Sun, 16 Jul 2000, Beyonder wrote:  < > Can someone explain this to me... I'd really like to know.A > I have an old fortran source code from 1989 (1992 with updates) ? > that compiled and ran fine with no errors or warnings at all. ; > runs like a charm... that is, on a vax11/750 or vax11/780 1 > running vms from 1989-1994 written and compiled < > using fortran 77 (perhaps a bit of fortran IV, don't know)7 > originally written on a PDP11 in 1988/1989 and ported  > E > in any case, I take this same exact code, and try to get it to work C > on a modern system (vax or alpha) openvms 7.2 current fortran 77. H > no dice. I get compiler errors or warnings, ok, so clean up the stuff.E > compiles fine, no errors, no warnings, but the program has run-time ) > crashes, and in some cases, just hangs.  > ) > Has fortran 77 (DEC) changed that much? H > Is there no way I'm going to get my stuff working without some seriousH > recoding? and what happens to the program with all these logic changes > I now have to do?  > B > Does anyone out there have an OLD vax still running the OLD vms?C > I have a system with vms5.5 kicking around but not sure if I have  > fortran on it. > anyone have the old one? > J > Then the question is, can I take an EXE from the old vms and will it run: > on the new vax or alpha ? (inquiring minds want to know) > 	 > augh...  >  > Dan. >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 23:04:57 GMT ! From: Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net> - Subject: Re: Differences in Fortran versions? ' Message-ID: <39723F9C.BEF6BF70@vrx.net>    Tim Shoppa wrote:   + > I would *not* call that a succesful port!   ' it compiles without errors or warnings. F it funtions the same way as the modern compilers on the vax and alpha.F to me that's pretty successful. it means they all behave the same way.  I > Huh?  Most all Fortran run-time libraries that support "VAX extensions" = > (and I think this covers *all* commercial Fortran compilers # > available today) will have RAN().  > F > 2 is hardly a good choice for an initial seed, but a code that hangs0 > solid with some seeds is *not* a working code!  A the question remains as to why the original code ran fine on PDP, D two different vax11/780s and a vax11/750 (I personally ran it on the3 three vax systems I mention here), this exact code.  that's what bugs me! :)   D > If this program does anything important, you'll probably have muchF > better luck re-implementing it from scratch.  IMHO you're misleadingG > yourself if you're trying to find a bug-compatible compiler to handle E > the inherently bug-ridden sources.  I think it was pure coincidence F > that this piece of code ever appeared to do what it was supposed to.  S I have a hard time believing the code ran coincidently for many years, and on three = different vaxen, with at least two different versions of vms.   C > If worse comes to worse, I *do* have a fairly complete collection A > of VMS and layered product distributions going back to VMS 3.0. = > But again, I don't think you'd be doing yourself a favor by 
 > doing this.   A I'll look up which vms was actually running on the two vax11/780s + it'll be a blast installing the old vms. :)    Dan.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 19:58:57 -0400 , From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>- Subject: Re: Differences in Fortran versions? > Message-ID: <hshubs-132DFF.19585716072000@news.mindspring.com>  D In article <3971CA2F.C5BC66BC@vrx.net>, Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net>  wrote:  ( >Has fortran 77 (DEC) changed that much?  , No, but the environment it's running in has.    I >Then the question is, can I take an EXE from the old vms and will it run 9 >on the new vax or alpha ? (inquiring minds want to know)   G EXE from a VAX will work on any VAX, but not on an Alpha.  EXE from an  G Alpha will run on another Alpha, but not on a VAX.  They're completely   different processors.    --   Howard S Shubs, the Denim Adept    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 20:01:10 -0400 , From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>- Subject: Re: Differences in Fortran versions? > Message-ID: <hshubs-0683A2.20011016072000@news.mindspring.com>  D In article <3971DA15.D03563D2@vrx.net>, Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net>  wrote:  : >Anyone out there with an old vax/old vms/old fortran ? :)  G Old VAXen are plentiful and are easily found.  Details depend on where h5 you are, unless you're willing to order one remotely.e   --   Howard S Shubs, the Denim Adeptg   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 20:13:52 -0400n+ From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>n- Subject: Re: Differences in Fortran versions?i1 Message-ID: <39721780.7FB81259@trailing-edge.com>F   Beyonder wrote:e >  > Tim Shoppa wrote:v > - > > I would *not* call that a succesful port!a > ) > it compiles without errors or warnings.aH > it funtions the same way as the modern compilers on the vax and alpha.H > to me that's pretty successful. it means they all behave the same way.  B But all of them behave (according to you) the *wrong* way.  That's? *not* succesful.  At least not in my book.  Maybe you come from D a different school of software engineering (the "Microsoft school"?); where compiling but not properly running counts as success?   C > the question remains as to why the original code ran fine on PDP, F > two different vax11/780s and a vax11/750 (I personally ran it on the5 > three vax systems I mention here), this exact code.v > that's what bugs me! :)A  A If I had a dollar every time I saw bad, non-portable, "why in the$A world does this actually work" Fortran code I'd be a millionaire.m  A If I had a dollar every time I saw bad, non-portable, "why in thes? world does this actually work" C code I'd be a billionaire :-).-  F > > If this program does anything important, you'll probably have muchH > > better luck re-implementing it from scratch.  IMHO you're misleadingI > > yourself if you're trying to find a bug-compatible compiler to handleeG > > the inherently bug-ridden sources.  I think it was pure coincidenceEH > > that this piece of code ever appeared to do what it was supposed to. > U > I have a hard time believing the code ran coincidently for many years, and on three ? > different vaxen, with at least two different versions of vms.i  C It's very possible that the source code you're dealing with doesn't B match up with the binaries that used to work, you know.  It's alsoA possible that in massaging the code so that it no longer gets anyE> compile-time errors or warnings you damaged its functionality.  ? In any event, if this program does anything remotely resembling A "important", it would behoove you to figure out how it's supposed 9 to do it and then code it up so that it properly does it.L  B As my Ph.D. advisor once told me, "If you don't know how to do it,+ you don't know how to do it on a computer."d   Tim.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 04:28:43 GMTi! From: Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net>t- Subject: Re: Differences in Fortran versions?w' Message-ID: <39728B79.343C5AC9@vrx.net>s   Tim Shoppa wrote:u  A > *not* succesful.  At least not in my book.  Maybe you come fromeF > a different school of software engineering (the "Microsoft school"?)= > where compiling but not properly running counts as success?w   limited success...  C > If I had a dollar every time I saw bad, non-portable, "why in thedC > world does this actually work" Fortran code I'd be a millionaire.i >nC > If I had a dollar every time I saw bad, non-portable, "why in theSA > world does this actually work" C code I'd be a billionaire :-).-  
 very cute.  E > It's very possible that the source code you're dealing with doesn'trD > match up with the binaries that used to work, you know.  It's alsoC > possible that in massaging the code so that it no longer gets anye@ > compile-time errors or warnings you damaged its functionality.  V sorry doesn't work. I compiled it myself at least several hundred times over the years2 (ok, at least 100-200), so that just doesn't jive.  A > In any event, if this program does anything remotely resemblingDC > "important", it would behoove you to figure out how it's supposedl; > to do it and then code it up so that it properly does it.r >rD > As my Ph.D. advisor once told me, "If you don't know how to do it,- > you don't know how to do it on a computer."   Y We're not sure how it's supposed to work, even the author doesn't know. Basically because Y it's been too long and he's forgotten. Plus, it was written with the PDP, when 2K of diskCQ space was considered a "premium" and it had all these funky ways of doing things.d    It's a relic of a by-gone era...   Dan.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 22:33:41 -0500 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>-$ Subject: DJE Systems in the OVMS FAQ- Message-ID: <39727E95.F2C6B4C4@earthlink.net>    Folks,  A Now that I have djesys.com set up, I've posted re-direct pages on1F Earthlink (now my personal website) that link to the appropriate pagesE on djesys.com. I've done this for all of the pages that have links tom& the Earthlink site in the OpenVMS FAQ.  > Please change your bookmarks to point to djesys.com, replacing3 "home.earthlink.net/~djesys" with "www.djesys.com".o   --   David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsg http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/y   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 20:42:47 +0200t& From: "Rainer Terpe" <rainer@terpe.de>3 Subject: DSSI-Terminator not present or not workings) Message-ID: <8ksvp0$c8g$1@news.online.de>e  	 Hi there,.J i try booting my VAX4000-200 from stabackit. It works fine for a "moment".  @ I get the message "DSSI - Terminator not present or not working"  ! How can I terminate the DSSI-Bus?-  / Where can I get or buy a terminator in germany?h   I hope for your help   Rainer   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 15:01:45 -0400 (EDT)02 From: "Douglas S. Meade" <vaxboy@inforum2.umd.edu>7 Subject: Re: DSSI-Terminator not present or not workinguG Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.20.0007161459080.14135-100000@inforum2.umd.edu>    Rainer,   > The terminator looks like an HDB50 SCSI-2 terminator, but I'm ; told they are not electrically equivalent, so don't try to c: get by with one of those.  The last time I checked, which 8 was around last October, you could purchase one from DEC; for about $25 US.  The part number I found was 12-29258-01.h  C If you need DSSI stuff, you can also get it from various resellers,d> but some of them are charging even higher prices than DEC for  some of this stuff!   
 Doug Meade      ( On Sun, 16 Jul 2000, Rainer Terpe wrote:   > Hi there,dL > i try booting my VAX4000-200 from stabackit. It works fine for a "moment". > B > I get the message "DSSI - Terminator not present or not working" > # > How can I terminate the DSSI-Bus?n > 1 > Where can I get or buy a terminator in germany?l >  > I hope for your help >  > Rainer >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 16:41:20 -0400,2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>7 Subject: Re: DSSI-Terminator not present or not workinge6 Message-ID: <200007161641_MC2-AC75-523@compuserve.com>  D         The DSSI terminator and the SCSI terminator are mechanicallyG different; opposite genders.  There's no way to plug one into the other " short of using a large hammer! :-)    * Message text written by "Douglas S. Meade"@ >The terminator looks like an HDB50 SCSI-2 terminator, but I'm =  < told they are not electrically equivalent, so don't try to =   get by with one of those.<   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 02:18:02 GMT= From: jordan@my-deja.com= Subject: Re: got to remember to STOP trying to use OpenVMS...t) Message-ID: <8ktqcg$ra9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>u  , In article <8kqeat$5pi@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,&   mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu wrote: > D > Ok, the criticism is not with the purpose of autoconf, which is toC > detect the various things that differ between OS's and generate a4 MakefileE > automatically to compensate for them.   The EXACT criticism is thatl it'sF > been done in such a way that is hideously Unix specific, whereas the > problem is a general one.   A Well, this is an understandable concern.  Certainly more specifica? and addressable than configure being "psycho" and it being "theu> exact opposite of a logical way of making a software product".  ? In defense of autoconf/configure, and the people who did it, its< was built to a fill a specific need.  Most of the people who= contributed to autoconf probably didn't even have access to aA) VMS system, let alone need to support it.o  @ It was designed to provide portability between environments that@ support some large set of the GNU toolchain.  Including bash and: some large set of command line utilities like cp, rm, etc.  @ You can almost always criticize a facility for not having enoughC features, not being general enough.  So, autoconf/configure doesn'tsB address all portability concerns.  It does do a good job between a$ large number of common environments.  G >                           One starts with a "configure" script, whichb isF > bad enough, and that it uses every unsupportable Unix specific trick in theG > book to check to see which functions exist and so forth.  If the guys- who-E > did this didn't have their Unix blinders stapled to their heads one" wouldw; > instead find "configure.dat" - a text file describing the- capabilitiesA > which are to be tested for and an abstract version of the builddH > instructions (dependencies and such) and "configure" an ANSI C programE > which could be built on any platform.  It would implement each test ? > AS APPROPRIATE FOR THE PLATFORM based on #ifdef's when it wasr	 compiled.S> > (If done that way, the C RTL could easily enough come with aF > static file containing all the answers to the various tests for thatF > platform, so that running configure would be nothing but a series of table @ > lookups.)  Not only that, but it would allow platform specific5 > "makefiletype" switches, so that when you could do:t >,  >  $ configure -makefiletype=mms  >  $ configure -makefiletype=dcl >"G > on VMS and generate either an mms style file or a plain dcl procedure > > "make_vms.com".  Ditto in the obvious ways for other nonUnix
 platforms. >c  @ I think you are missing some of the difficulty in supporting theD framework you are suggesting.  Configure scripts very often discover= whether include files exist, are in one place vs. another and-D specifically what is in those files.  Maybe I don't fully appreciateB what you are getting at above, but it seems to me that the easiestD way to perform this discovery is to have a driver program (a script)G that attempts to compile some small code fragment that has or uses thisaC facility and check for errors or output from executing the compiled = program that results from compiling and linking the fragment.a  A There's no portable way to write a driver script to perform theseIB operations between Unix, VMS, MS, etc.  The autoconf writers chose bash to write this script.  ? Now, I could envision that all of these kinds of tests could be C encapsulated into C code with system() calls that could be #ifdef'd,= for VMS and other environments, but this would be a different B architecture that would be harder to write and support.  But then,> there are still the odd cases when configure is called upon toA determine if and how a given system supports Lex/Yacc, if certaineB command line facilities are supported (like cp -R).  The configureC script, written in bash, can do these odd things fairly easily, I'mr/ not sure how I would go about it in standard C.o  > Anyway, these speculations about design are fine, but autoconfD already exists and does a good job, IMHO, at what it was designed toA do.  Autoconf has been around for at least 12 years, IIRC, and is ? in it's second major release.  I'm sure that those who maintainaB autoconf would be open to your design suggestions, or even better,; working code that implements this alternate implementation.gA As I said, it's not in _their_ interest to support portability ton? non-Unix environments, they almost certainly all use only Unix.t@ It does seem to be in _our_ best interest to promote portability? to VMS.  Compaq sees this and is addressing this in a number ofw? ways (better RTL support, the new wrappers, "official" GNU makes port, etc. etc.)  G > Put another way - while autoconf is a portability tool between unicesoE > it is an ANTIportability tool between unix and all other OS's.  Andn justH > because you can get it to work in Cygwin doesn't make it a portability= > tool, on windows you'd really want it to generate makefilesa appropriate for ? > Visual C++ or CodeWarrior or other common Windows environments
 compilers. >u  1 I only mentioned that I had done this with Cygwin,E because I was fairly certain thatthe code that I configured and builtsA on Cygwin had never been ported to this environment before. ProofaA that configure does it's job well, within the confines of what itg was designed to do.   ? I don't see that configure makes it _more_ difficult to port to ; environments that don't support the GNU toolchain.  As John ? Malmberg pointed out in another message in this thread, you canf< always use the makefile.in as a guide to the structure of anB MMS file.  In fact, the framework that autoconf/configure supports@ introduces the discipline where system attributes are identifiedB by specific identifiers (used in #ifdefs).  This is not the set ofB identifiers that your system vendors provides for their particular4 run-time, but it's the first step in that direction.  
 > Regards, >D > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edue@ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech >h   -Jordan Hendersons jordan@greenapple.come    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 16:47:22 -0400t+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>"M Subject: RE: I/O caching and UNIX evaluations (was: Re: got to remember ..	.) J Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284542@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com>   Robert and Shane,a  H <<< When I read that the new GS-series machines REQUIRE a billy-box as aG system console, I almost fell out of my chair.  24x7x365, or until yourn" console goes BSOD.  Good Grief! <<  J While slightly off topic for this thread :-), the console for the Alpha GS; Series is a recommended option - not absolutely mandatory. o  H If a Customer already has a console mgmt system (Like RoboCentral), then that can be used instead.g  E Bottom line is that when looking at large system implementations with I multiple partitions (each of which require a dedicated console), multiple L HSxxx consoles, multiple FC Switches (they have mgmt interface as well), you8 likely really do need to consider a console mgmt system.  J As an example, a console mgmt system provides remote, secure access to theK console, log file review (now what did that operator do on the console last K night anyway??), backups of console logs etc., running HSxxx utilities likegK VTDPY ("monitor system" equivalent for HSxxx controller and shows cache, IOl1 stats etc), monitoring FC switch performance etc.v  K As an aside, if the NT station with the console dies, the GS Series systems-G continue running. Also, for those concerned about having multi-site (ordK multi-console) access, RoboCentral provides a dual site mgmt station options: where both collect the same console data as the other one.   A few console mgmt references:? http://www.robomon.com/product_detail_robocen.htm (RoboCentral)r< http://www.tditx.com/tdicard/www/cwframe.html (ConsoleWorks)' http://www.ki.com/products/clim/ (CLIM)iI http://www.cai.com/products/commandit.htm (CommandIT - former VAX Consolea Mgr)   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant,
 Compaq Canadao Professional Servicesn Voice : 613-592-4660 FAX   : 819-772-7036 Email : kerry.main@compaq.com        -----Original Message-----F From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com [mailto:Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com]# Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2000 2:33 PM0 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComoG Subject: Re: I/O caching and UNIX evaluations (was: Re: got to remember  ...)      H I'd estimate I could do the job for under 2k. You shouldn't need cuttingJ edge speed, just reliability. Hell, if someone wants to pay me to 5k buildG one I'll throw in some case mods for OTT cooling and a funky paint job!l   Shanen          F mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) on 07/15/2000 12:50:33 PM  / Please respond to mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edue   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- cc:-  H Subject:  Re: I/O caching and UNIX evaluations (was: Re: got to remember
       ...)    
 In articleA <rdeininger-1507001131360001@user-2ivebf7.dialup.mindspring.com>,24 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: >pE >When I read that the new GS-series machines REQUIRE a billy-box as atH >system console, I almost fell out of my chair.  24x7x365, or until your  >console goes BSOD.  Good Grief!  K Yes, it is very strange.  Maybe they are _that_ desperate for PC sales? No, D but seriously, if you run Compaq's PC based (of course, sigh) systemI configuration program and break the prices out for any GS you'll see thatnE they want $5k (if memory serves) for that PC.  I guess they figure iflJ you're dropping half a million on a GS you may not notice the steep markupJ on a rock standard commodity PC.  It's the same psychology where you'll goK half way across town to save $100 on a $200 stereo, but won't budge an inch, to save $100 on a $20,000 car.  I The thing is, if I had to have a PC on such a machine, it certainly wouldiF not be a Compaq PC, or even a Dell.  Instead I'd want to have it builtF locally from top of the line components.  And I'd want two of them, soI that if the first one failed the spare would be ready to go.  And I couldf do that for less than $5k.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edup> Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 23:25:27 -0400e2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)R Subject: Re: I/O caching and UNIX evaluations (was: Re: got to remember ..      .)L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1607002325280001@user-2ivea5i.dialup.mindspring.com>  w In article <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284542@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote:o   > Robert and Shane,' > J > <<< When I read that the new GS-series machines REQUIRE a billy-box as aI > system console, I almost fell out of my chair.  24x7x365, or until yourr$ > console goes BSOD.  Good Grief! << > L > While slightly off topic for this thread :-), the console for the Alpha GS= > Series is a recommended option - not absolutely mandatory.       From the "quickspecs", sA  http://www.compaq.com/products/quickspecs/10643_na/10643_na.htmlI   I quote:E "PC-based System Management Console is required for system power-up,".  C Adding insult to injury, it doesn't even have a VMS style keyboard.M  J > If a Customer already has a console mgmt system (Like RoboCentral), then > that can be used instead.7 > G > Bottom line is that when looking at large system implementations withtK > multiple partitions (each of which require a dedicated console), multipleiN > HSxxx consoles, multiple FC Switches (they have mgmt interface as well), you: > likely really do need to consider a console mgmt system.   Ok, I can believe that.  I'd consider it a lot better if there was no stinking billybox involved.  So why didn't someone at Digipaq impliment all thisG fancyness ON A VMS SYSTEM?  That's the point we're trying to make.  I'mcH pretty sure you've realized that, but you may have a few borg genes thatL are forcing you to foist the billybox stuff.  Resist!  Don't be assimilated!   Consider this:  You just bought a Cadillac.  You're about to drive it off the dealer's lot, and the salesman tells you, "The only way to start it is to tow it behind this nice Yugo."  Not that I have anything against Yugos.e  L > As an example, a console mgmt system provides remote, secure access to theM > console, log file review (now what did that operator do on the console last M > night anyway??), backups of console logs etc., running HSxxx utilities likeaM > VTDPY ("monitor system" equivalent for HSxxx controller and shows cache, IOe3 > stats etc), monitoring FC switch performance etc.'  / VMS sounds like a good place to implement this.u  M > As an aside, if the NT station with the console dies, the GS Series systemst > continue running.   K But will anyone know?  This is like the tree falling in the forest.  By theo> way, you mis-spelled "when".  (4th word of previous sentence.)  E Sigh.  Now I know how that tree in the forest felt.  No one hears me.-   -- - Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 11:33:10 -0700e! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com7L Subject: Re: I/O caching and UNIX evaluations (was: Re: got to remember ...)C Message-ID: <OF1A92212F.92155F6E-ON8825691E.0065A66B@HEALTHNET.COM>   H I'd estimate I could do the job for under 2k. You shouldn't need cuttingJ edge speed, just reliability. Hell, if someone wants to pay me to 5k buildG one I'll throw in some case mods for OTT cooling and a funky paint job!l   Shaned          F mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) on 07/15/2000 12:50:33 PM  / Please respond to mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu    To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt cc:w  H Subject:  Re: I/O caching and UNIX evaluations (was: Re: got to remember
       ...)    
 In articleA <rdeininger-1507001131360001@user-2ivebf7.dialup.mindspring.com>,p4 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes: >lE >When I read that the new GS-series machines REQUIRE a billy-box as a H >system console, I almost fell out of my chair.  24x7x365, or until your  >console goes BSOD.  Good Grief!  K Yes, it is very strange.  Maybe they are _that_ desperate for PC sales? No, D but seriously, if you run Compaq's PC based (of course, sigh) systemI configuration program and break the prices out for any GS you'll see thatyE they want $5k (if memory serves) for that PC.  I guess they figure ifkJ you're dropping half a million on a GS you may not notice the steep markupJ on a rock standard commodity PC.  It's the same psychology where you'll goK half way across town to save $100 on a $200 stereo, but won't budge an incht to save $100 on a $20,000 car.  I The thing is, if I had to have a PC on such a machine, it certainly wouldoF not be a Compaq PC, or even a Dell.  Instead I'd want to have it builtF locally from top of the line components.  And I'd want two of them, soI that if the first one failed the spare would be ready to go.  And I could  do that for less than $5k.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edut> Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech   ------------------------------    Date: 16 Jul 2000 20:32:05 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)aI Subject: Re: Looking for VAX->Alpha SCAN port? (was: VMS Pascal question) + Message-ID: <$7Ah0UED0MMZ@eisner.decus.org>-  y In article <418E68E524A8D311ACCE00508B78866A7680BF@exchange.t-netix.com>, Lorin Ricker <Lorin.Ricker@t-netix.com> writes:n  > > http://www.decus.org/libcatalog/description_html/v00576.html > K > ...which gets you to the distribution for the old *VAX* SCAN distribution F > kit, which DEC kindly contributed into DECUS "freeware" distributionM > (perhaps as a sop to mask their embarrassment in not porting and supporting  > it on Alpha/VMS? ;-).t > B > However, I *do* remember reading *somewhere* about a package andH > distribution which *is* Alpha-bits SCAN (!), but to my own chagrin andH > embarrassment, I can't for the life of me remember where... although ID > *thought* it was either here in this VMS newsgroup or in the DECUS > website(?!?!).  $ I don't believe such a thing exists.  A Of course a VESTed SCAN should run on Alpha (to create VAX objectg code).   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 14:20:42 +0930aA From: "Geoff Roberts" <geoffrobx@stmarksx.ppx.catholicx.edux.aux>e0 Subject: Re: Mac-Decnet via Webster Multiport LT3 Message-ID: <Vgwc5.36972$N4.1444028@ozemail.com.au>l  : "Pradeep Bashyal" <bashyal@earthlink.net> wrote in message5 news:1edt8h2.10wowlc1k6sk5gN%bashyal@earthlink.net...   H > MacNFS can be obtained from http://www.thursby.com/products/macnfs.htm  F Thanks for that, I've had a look at it.  It will solve the problem forE one of them, but the others are Classic II's so they are incapable ofi
 running it...e, Appletalk for VMS looks interesting however.   Cheers  
 Geoff Robertse Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie,c South Australiay6 geoffrob at stmarks dot pp dot catholic dot edu dot au ICQ: 1970476   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 22:09:17 -0500h7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>u% Subject: Re: RGB VLC Monitor Questionl- Message-ID: <397278DD.CDA40776@earthlink.net>    arturo saavedra wrote: > M > Is there a chance that I could use my RGB VLC monitor as a regular monitor,sE > that is, I'd like to use it as a monitor on a PW500au but the Alpha.+ > workstation does not have RGB connection.t  G You'll run into sync. problems because RBG monitors like your expect tosC "sync. on green". That is, they derive both horizontal and verticalf1 synchronization pulses from the green gun signal.   H Once you resolve that (if you can), you still stand a good chance to fryH the monitor if the sync. rates don't match what the monitor was designed' to withstand (y'know, resonances, etc.)b   -- v David J. Dachterad dba DJE Systems( http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 02:30:29 GMTr From: jordan@my-deja.com Subject: Sun may GPL StarOfficen) Message-ID: <8ktr45$s0f$1@nnrp1.deja.com>a   According to this:  >    http://www.zdnet.com/sp/stories/news/0,4538,2604174,00.html  < Sun is expected to release StarOffice under the GPL, the GNU Open Source license.  = Some months back, I expressed my concern that an OpenVMS portl9 of StarOffice would be subject to Sun's acceptance of thee: changes necessary to support the port.  If StarOffice were5 GPL'd, Sun would not be able to deny the creation and 9 redistribution of changes necessary to port StarOffice toc OpenVMS.  < If we see this happen, then kudos to Sun and shame on me for my paranoia.  A Are there still people out there interested in porting StarOfficei to OpenVMS?e   -Jordan Hendersont jordan@greenapple.comw      & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.u   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 14:57:35 -0400 (EDT)i2 From: "Douglas S. Meade" <vaxboy@inforum2.umd.edu>" Subject: TCPIP with no name serverG Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.20.0007161450001.14135-100000@inforum2.umd.edu>   > I've got the hobbyist version of VMS 7.2 running on a Microvax@ 3500 at home, networked with Linux, Netbsd and Windows machines.> I've got a problem with the TCPIP setup that is similar to one@ I've had before with Netbsd.  If you telnet out from the Vax to ? another machine, then you can telnet back to the vax.  However, @ if you try to telnet directly to the vax, it gets as far as the > "connected to" message, but never displays the login prompt.  B When I close the telnet connection from the other end, the message= on the VMS machine is cryptic, something like: "unrecognized  @ device".  However, I've seen this same behavior on Unix machinesD when the /etc/nsswitch.conf file is set to "dns, files", instead of B "files, dns".  On the home network, I'm not running a name server,? so I always set up "files,dns".  I suspect this is the problem  > on the Vax, but I can't figure out the equivalent incantation 	 in TCPIP>d  ? I've also got a few Vaxes at the Univ. of Md. campus, connected ? to the internet, and they always work fine as soon as I've set m@ up network address, broadcast address, gateway, nameserver, etc.   Your help is much appreciated.  
 Doug Meade   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 04:32:37 GMTi! From: Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net>s. Subject: terminal speeds on console connectors' Message-ID: <39728C62.20BCEE79@vrx.net>   > I have several 3100m76 vaxstations, and a dec alpha (3000/300)& but this query is specific to the vax.F I can set the terminal speed to 19200 no problem, but is there any way to getE it to go higher? I tried 38400/38400 but the vax doesn't seem to sync  properly (I get garbage).i  B actually the CONSOLE connectors won't do any better than 9600, for) 19200, I have to use the other connector.o  E I'm using set term/speed=(19200,19200) for example. is there a betterl way?  G I'm connection from a PC com port via the phone-cord type cables to ther vax.H I then use Telix, procomm, Hypergarbage, or my new found friend, Kermit.  B Although I haven't explored the new kermit well enough to comment.   Dan.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 15:39:01 -0400 (EDT)r2 From: "Douglas S. Meade" <vaxboy@inforum2.umd.edu>! Subject: TK50Z-GA vs. TK50Z-FA ??tG Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.20.0007161529110.14135-100000@inforum2.umd.edu>   G Several weeks ago I found one of those "hairy chested" Vaxstation 2000siB (http://anacin.nsc.vcu.edu/~jim/mvax/mv.txt) with the pizza box on4 the bottom of the system, and 14 Mb of memory.  Wow!  > Now, a question.  I've been trying to get a tape drive to work= with this machine.  The above URL describes the connector as y@ "SCSI-like", and they mention using a "TK50-Z".  I tried hooking> a TK50Z-GA on it this week, but got no response, either trying< to boot from tape, or trying to use the tape from VMS.  Now,@ I've also got a TK50Z-FA lying around at the office.  What makes? it different from the 'GA' variety, and is it the one then thathB is supposed to work with the Vaxstation 2000?  The TK50Z-GA I know? is "real" SCSI, since I've used it on several other Vaxstation -B 3100 and 4000 models.  And, what about the cable to the Vaxstation< 2000.  I used a standard SCSI cable.  Do you need a special  DEC cable for this?e   Doug   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 16:15:47 -0400e2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>! Subject: TK50Z-GA vs. TK50Z-FA ??e6 Message-ID: <200007161616_MC2-AC75-3D7@compuserve.com>  J         The TK50Z-FA is the one that was designed for the VAXstation 2000= . =   J The -GA should work also but only if you set it to the correct SCSI addre= ss which, I believe, is 1.-  C         The -FA version is "almost SCSI".   The -GA is "real SCSI".t  * Message text written by "Douglas S. Meade" > =i  G Several weeks ago I found one of those "hairy chested" Vaxstation 2000ssB (http://anacin.nsc.vcu.edu/~jim/mvax/mv.txt) with the pizza box on4 the bottom of the system, and 14 Mb of memory.  Wow!  > Now, a question.  I've been trying to get a tape drive to work> with this machine.  The above URL describes the connector as =  @ "SCSI-like", and they mention using a "TK50-Z".  I tried hooking> a TK50Z-GA on it this week, but got no response, either trying< to boot from tape, or trying to use the tape from VMS.  Now,@ I've also got a TK50Z-FA lying around at the office.  What makes? it different from the 'GA' variety, and is it the one then thateB is supposed to work with the Vaxstation 2000?  The TK50Z-GA I know@ is "real" SCSI, since I've used it on several other Vaxstation =  B 3100 and 4000 models.  And, what about the cable to the Vaxstation= 2000.  I used a standard SCSI cable.  Do you need a special =o   DEC cable for this?  <.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:31:36 -0700o2 From: "Randy Park" <rjpark@mindspring.com.nospaam>% Subject: Re: TK50Z-GA vs. TK50Z-FA ??p3 Message-ID: <8ktnff$1tp$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>c  B I have a MicroVax 2000. It's running VMS 5.2 and I use it strictly for testing.  B The difference between the -FA and the -GA is that one is for SCSI9 connections and the other is for MicroVax/Vaxstation 2000n? connections.  While the connector on the 2000 looks the same ast SCSI, it is not SCSI.:  ; Douglas S. Meade <vaxboy@inforum2.umd.edu> wrote in messagePA news:Pine.LNX.4.20.0007161529110.14135-100000@inforum2.umd.edu...vI > Several weeks ago I found one of those "hairy chested" Vaxstation 2000shD > (http://anacin.nsc.vcu.edu/~jim/mvax/mv.txt) with the pizza box on6 > the bottom of the system, and 14 Mb of memory.  Wow! >'@ > Now, a question.  I've been trying to get a tape drive to work> > with this machine.  The above URL describes the connector asB > "SCSI-like", and they mention using a "TK50-Z".  I tried hooking@ > a TK50Z-GA on it this week, but got no response, either trying> > to boot from tape, or trying to use the tape from VMS.  Now,B > I've also got a TK50Z-FA lying around at the office.  What makesA > it different from the 'GA' variety, and is it the one then thateD > is supposed to work with the Vaxstation 2000?  The TK50Z-GA I know@ > is "real" SCSI, since I've used it on several other VaxstationD > 3100 and 4000 models.  And, what about the cable to the Vaxstation= > 2000.  I used a standard SCSI cable.  Do you need a special  > DEC cable for this?  >  > Doug >s >  >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 16:08:26 -0400f+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>  Subject: RE: UCX and DHCP J Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284541@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com>   Mark,h  G As John mentioned, all of the latest OpenVMS documentation is availablew online.l  > <http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/index.html (OpenVMS doc's)A <http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/index.html#tcpip (TCPIP docs)fL <http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/721final/6523/6523pro_009.html#index_x_4
 98> DHCP miscl   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant,
 Compaq Canada  Professional Services' Voice : 613-592-4660 FAX   : 819-772-7036 Email : kerry.main@compaq.comd       -----Original Message-----/ From: Mark Saad [mailto:2saad_m@spcvxa.spc.edu]h$ Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2000 12:13 PM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comb Subject: UCX and DHCPh      H I am trying to set up a DHCP server on VMS 7.2-1 I don't have any of theI documentation on UCX and I was wondering if anyone knows the files I needaD to edit. Also Is it worth it to go to compaq and try and get some ofH documents from them? I am a student and I don't have much money to throw around.   	 Mark SaadA St. Peter's College2 Academic Computer Center 2saad_m@spcvxa.spc.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 15:06:23 -0400n2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)  Subject: Re: VMS Pascal questionL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1607001506230001@user-2iveacj.dialup.mindspring.com>  m In article <Q$186II6iufS@tachxxsoftxxconsult>, wayne@tachysoft.xxx.293778.killspam.0223 (Wayne Sewell) wrote:-      * > > What's the status of WEB these days?   > M > I am not sure.  I haven't worked with it for many years.  Again, if you areuO > interested, the literate programming FAQ is the place to start.  I don't knowdB > where it is archived these days, but the pertinent newsgroup is K > comp.programming.literate.  You should be able to track down the faq from  > there. > ) > >Could I find a VMS version somewhere? h > G > If you can find Tex, you can typically find WEB and Metafont with it.  > O > The TeX on the freeware cdrom appears to contain tangle and weave.  These twohN > programs, plus the webmac.tex file containing the WEB TeX macros, *are* web. > Q > > Are there dialects available that work with languages other than Pascal?  Adae > > perhaps?  Fortran?   > H > I think there was a fortran version.  There are several C versions.  IO > personally developed a Modula-2 version for the book.   Even worked out a wayaM > to derive both the definition module and the implementation module from theeQ > same MWEB source file.   The TANGLE for MWEB equivalent was called MANGLE.  :-)  > 3 > > I _like_ WEB, but I've never had it available! t > ! > Get the freeware cd and you do!   @ Well duh!  I must have missed it.  It's been there all the time.  9 Thanks.  I'll look it over when I have some spare cycles.    -- p Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.coml   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 15:17:46 -0400i2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)G Subject: Re: vms$common - syscommon problems after retoring system disknL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1607001517470001@user-2iveacj.dialup.mindspring.com>  k In article <200007160730_MC2-AC72-B4E4@compuserve.com>, "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com> wrote:i  E >         It is a bug!  It has been reported here before but you have H > provided more detail than I have seen in the other reports.  Somebody,K > between V6.2 and V7.2, screwed up BACKUP's handling of Alias files and/ore > directories. >   G I _think_ the darn /noalias qualifier was added to make it possible for  the newer VMS versions to correctly restore save sets created by older (6.?) versions.  The bug, I think, was in 6.?, and 7.1 and up are supposedly "ok".n There is some mumbo-jumbo in the 7.1 release notes and/or new features manual, IIRC.   But I have to say, every word of documentation I read about /noaliashT leaves me more confused.  When should I use it?  When backing up, or when restoring?   I know one thing for sure:  F An image backup of a VMS system disk is no good if the alias directory entries are not there.   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.coml   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 16:36:43 -0400o2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>G Subject: Re: vms$common - syscommon problems after retoring system disk-6 Message-ID: <200007161637_MC2-AC75-4D7@compuserve.com>  H         Me too.  Everything I've seen says something about restoring the "previous behavior" =n  D without bothering to explain what the previous behavior was, when it+ changed, how it changed, or why it changed.   I         Up until VMS V5.2, BACKUP simply worked; slowly, but it worked. =t  F The rewrite at V5.2, made BACKUP run faster at the cost of a seeminglyJ endless series of bugs and the equally endless "cumulative BACKUP patch".=  =  F Ca. VMS V5.5-2 and some version of the cumulative patch, BACKUP worked again.  G         The last time I thought I understood how /IMAGE worked, it readkH INDEXF.SYS and backed up every file it found a header for!  Since a fileJ has one "primary header" regardless of how many directories it is entered=  H in, every file got backed up once.  If I ever knew how the alias entriesJ were restored, I don't remember.  I do remember that it worked.  In those=  J days I was running a couple of systems with a single disk drive; about fo= urF times a year I did an image backup and restore to defragment the disk.    ( Message text written by Robert DeiningerG >There is some mumbo-jumbo in the 7.1 release notes and/or new features J manual, IIRC.   But I have to say, every word of documentation I read abo= ut /noaliasJ leaves me more confused.  When should I use it?  When backing up, or when=  
 restoring? <l   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 21:47:02 -0400u, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>G Subject: Re: vms$common - syscommon problems after retoring system disk-> Message-ID: <hshubs-A137FA.21470216072000@news.mindspring.com>  C In article <200007161637_MC2-AC75-4D7@compuserve.com>, "Richard B. .' Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com> wrote:h  I >        Up until VMS V5.2, BACKUP simply worked; slowly, but it worked. S  G And it required the software be available at all times on its original n@ media.  This was a PITA when working from something like a TU58.   -- * Howard S Shubs, the Denim Adepta   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.396 ************************