1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 23 Jul 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 409       Contents:? Re: %SYSINIT-E, Error mounting system device, status = 000008c4 ? Re: %SYSINIT-E, Error mounting system device, status = 000008c4 ? Re: %SYSINIT-E, Error mounting system device, status = 000008c4 ? Re: %SYSINIT-E, Error mounting system device, status = 000008c4 > Re: ANALYZE/DISK/REPAIR (was Re: VMS equivalent of UNIX 'ln'?) Re: Editor Commands  Re: Help default boot & time( Re: New SKC Postings on www.acersoft.com( Re: New SKC Postings on www.acersoft.com" Re: Undocumented commands in UCX ?" Re: Undocumented commands in UCX ?" Re: Undocumented commands in UCX ? VAXAStation 3100  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 07:08:28 -0500 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> H Subject: Re: %SYSINIT-E, Error mounting system device, status = 000008c4O Message-ID: <7056CA28921772F7.953B789BA87DC017.DC2FFFC708B34E97@lp.airnews.net>    "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote:  >  >         Dwight,  > G >         There have been some reports that /IMAGE backups made without M > /NOALIAS can't be restored properly.  The reports I've seen have involved a H > backup made on VAX/VMS V6.2 and restored under VMS V7.2.  HELP and the4 > manuals say that "/NOALIAS is highly recommended". > I >         I don't know where to tell you to go from here.  I thought that J > SHOW DEVICE /FULL would show the structure level but it does not; I justI > tried it on my Alphastation!  There does not seem to be any easy way to I > find out what the structure level is.  It's a problem I've never had to K > deal with.  It will be a cold day in hell before I initialize a volume as I > ODS-5; I have no need for DOS/Windows compatibility in the area of file F > names.  In sixteen years I've never needed to mount an ODS-1 volume.   6 It appears that you can find the structure level with:  * 	Write Sys$Output F$GetDVI(disk,"ACPTYPE")  G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 13:38:00 GMT # From: Mark Sterk <strong@chello.nl> H Subject: Re: %SYSINIT-E, Error mounting system device, status = 000008c4) Message-ID: <397AF42A.177007E3@chello.nl>   G Maybe a stupid suggestion but have you checked if your HSD10 (including   firmware) supports a RZ29L disk?     "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote:   F >         000008c4 translates as SYSTEM-F-FILESTRUCT, unsupported file > structure level. > F >         Is your customer using /IMAGE and /NOALIAS to do his backup? > J >         What happens when you boot from your own system disk and issue a3 > mount command for his; e.g.  MOUNT /OVER=ID DIA3:  > H >         Once upon a time, the only possibilities for "structure level" > were ODS-1 and ODS-2. F > I don't think that a VMS system disk can be an ODS-1 disk; that's anL > antique format, supported for compatability with PDP11 systems.  I believe) > that ODS-5 is supported only on Alphas.  > M >         You may have to mount the disk /FOREIGN and use the DUMP command to 	 > examine I > the disk.   Each file header in INDEXF.SYS contains, in its seventh and M > eighth bytes, the field called FH2BW_STRUCLEV.  The high order byte of this E > word contains the structure level.  The low order byte contains the + > Files-11 version used to create the file.  > J >         Get a copy of "VMS File System Internals" by Kirby McCoy, put on, > your Deerstalker hat, and start detecting. > ) > Message text written by "Dwight Brooks" < > > have a customer running VMS 7.2 on a VAXstation 4000-90.J > He is trying to make (copy of) a bootable disk to send me to look at his	 > system. I > He is using Standalone backup to copy the disk and it boots fine on his 	 > system. 3 > The disk is a StorageWorks "brick" RZ29L (4.3Gb).  > L > I have a VAX 4000-105A with an HSD10A controller in a StorageWorks shelve.> > When I try to boot the disk, I get to the normal VMS banner. > Then get DECnet loaded....& > Then I get the aforementioned error. > F > I can run SYSBOOT, etc but don't seen anything obvious in the SYSGEN
 > parameters. H > I also have a VAX 4000-200 with an HSD10A controller in a StorageWorks > shelve# > and it does the exact same thing.  > L > Can anyone out there tell me what we're doing wrong or how to resolve it?<   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 09:09:13 -0500 / From: "Dwight Brooks" <dbrooks@prosoftauto.com> H Subject: Re: %SYSINIT-E, Error mounting system device, status = 000008c4: Message-ID: <8leudh$1jq4$1@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>  " Thanks to everyone for their help.F When I get in the office tomorrow, I will post the actual boot log and@ take the disk to an Alpha system and mount it and get the volume information.F One individual that responded to me by email only suggested that a H/W
 dependency such as the DECnet device.5 I do get the error just after the DECnet-loaded line.  Any comments out there? C How I would disable DECnet or the DECnet device from SYSGEN/SYSBOOT . I will try "USE DEFAULT" and see what happens.$ Look for a new post/thread tomorrow. -Dwight   7 "David A Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message ' news:397A406C.905746E2@tsoft-inc.com...  > Dwight Brooks wrote: > > $ > > I agree it is most likely ODS-5.L > > However, this disk boots on a VAX 4000-90 as it is a single disk system.E > > A guy from another company mentioned ODS-5 supports new/different  cluster 
 > > sizes.- > > I'm not sure what affect that has either. J > > It almost seems to me that the bootstrap or some firmware/microcode is an > > old version of VMS.  > > Does that make sense?  > > -Dwight  > I > There is some mis-information here.  VMS 7.2 and above, on both VAX and  Alpha L > support small cluster sizes on large disks.  Pre-V7.2 does not support theJ > smaller cluster sizes.  VMS V7.2 and above on Alpha supports ODS-5.  VAX doesI > not support ODS-5.  All this is depending on a memory that isn't always  correct. > :-)  > J > I'm guessing you may have a large disk with a clustersize supported only under K > V7.2 and above.  Also, a VAX system disk and an Alpha system disk are not H > compatible.  So, if the disk boots (not mount) on a VAX 4000 model 90, then is J > is a VAX system disk, and might have the small clustersize that requires VMS  > V7.2.  > J > As for why it won't boot on a VAX 4000 model 105A, I have no clue.  What are the  > messages you get?  >  > Dave >  > --6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04506 > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596@ > DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com8 > T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 12:48:34 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> H Subject: Re: %SYSINIT-E, Error mounting system device, status = 000008c4, Message-ID: <397B21DF.81E90185@videotron.ca>   Dwight Brooks wrote:H > One individual that responded to me by email only suggested that a H/W > dependency > such as the DECnet device.  M My initial gut feeling is that if it were a hardware problem, you wouldn't be L booting at all. The fact that **VMS** boots and complains/hangs during a VMSM portion of the boot means that the hardware was able to load/access data from  the hard drive.   I Also, a DECnet error would happen well after the SYSINIT phase (DECNET is U normally started in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM which is pretty well near the end of the boot).   E > How I would disable DECnet or the DECnet device from SYSGEN/SYSBOOT   K from SYSBOOT>  SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN"    (or is it SET STARTUP_P1 = "MIN" ? I  always forget)  M I suspect that the problem will occur anyways since your error is produced by A SYSINIT which is a phase before any of the fancy stuff gets done.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 21:22:55 +0100 5 From: "Adrian Lumsden" <A.Lumsden@spamtrap.xdt.co.uk> G Subject: Re: ANALYZE/DISK/REPAIR (was Re: VMS equivalent of UNIX 'ln'?) . Message-ID: <8leci8$inv$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>  6 Yes. You're right. I was thinking of N.DID in the file name block.   : N.DID contains the directory name as six ASCII characters.8 All the directory names used to be based on UIC which is6 six octal digits. That's where [000000] MFD came from.  4 The file header itself doesn't contain the directory3 back pointer. It's the directory entry for the file 3 that contains the directory name that it is entered  in.   7 A lost file is on that's not in any directory but which 8 has a file header allocated. So RSX VFY can only recover0 the file to [1,3] (its equivalent to [SYSLOST]).  7 I seem to remember that that disctinction was important ; for DSC and BRU backups. DSC was driven off the directories 9 so it would loose lost files. Whereas BRU was (is) driven : off INDEXF.SYS and retains lost files (which remain lost).  
 with regards,    Adrian   --( Adrian Lumsden, XDT Computer Systems, UK" A dot Lumsden at xdt dot co dot uk      0 Bill Todd <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message" news:8l9t1u$1a6$1@pyrite.mv.net... > @ > Adrian Lumsden <A.Lumsden@spamtrap.xdt.co.uk> wrote in message+ > news:8l983s$1vr$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk... < > > I think that I favour VERIFY putting the recovered files? > > in [SYSLOST]. If it restores them to the original directory A > > you could run into all sorts of problems with version numbers & > > if there's a version number clash. > > F > > If VERIFY printed the directory backlink ("Was lost from [xxx]" ?)C > > as part of its normal logging of operations then you'd have the  > > information H > > you'd need to deal with the file and put it back where it (possibly)> > > was lost from. Same goes for RSX if Mentec's listening :-) > > > After this many years my memory could well be faulty, but my recollection is 6 > that the directory back-link did not exist in ODS-1. >  > - bill >  > >  > >  > > with regards,  > > 
 > > Adrian > > --, > > Adrian Lumsden, XDT Computer Systems, UK& > > A dot Lumsden at xdt dot co dot uk > >  > > D > > David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message+ > > news:3977B89B.7CB5806A@earthlink.net...  > > > Hoff Hoffman wrote:  > > > > ? > > > > In article <39766725.5C7607E9@earthlink.net>, "David J. 	 Dachtera" ) > > <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes: G > > > > :Since the file header indicates the FID of the directory where  the F > > > > :"primary" entry should be found, why does VERIFY (the program > > behind the@ > > > > :ANALYZE/DISK command) put a "lost" file (a file with no	 directory 
 > > entry)@ > > > > :into [SYSLOST] instead of the file's original directory	 (assuming  > > the ! > > > > :directory still exists)?  > > > > G > > > >   The directory backlink may or may not be current, even if the 
 > > directory H > > > >   listed is valid.  Would you rather have all files -- those not > > found in@ > > > >   any directory -- consistently dropped into SYSLOST for resolution,  > > > G > > > Sure! ...as long as the directory back-link still points to where  it > > did B > > > before VERIFY came along, and doesn't point to the [SYSLOST]	 directory 5 > > > (technically, an "invalid directory backlink").  > > > 
 > > > > orH > > > >   would you rather have some files dropped into SYSLOST and some	 > > files F > > > >   potentially randomly inserted back into (outdated) directory > > locations,F > > > >   directories that the files had previously been removed from? > > > G > > > Typically, you find a newbie SysAdmin, or even an experienced one  on aD > > > new site, who finds the need to run VERIFY, then finds TONS of files  > > inB > > > [SYSLOST], many with the same name and extension (but VASTLY	 different E > > > sizes, attributes, organizations, etc.), and no clue where they  cameD > > > from. (This has happened to me more often than I care to say!) > > > @ > > > True, a file usually gets "lost" because the directory got trashed. > > > A > > > Then again, you also get the over-privileged coder who goes  hacking A > > > armed only with the on-line help not understanding that SET  > > FILE/REMOVE E > > > and DELETE are not to be toyed with ("Chill, dude! Just use the  > > UNDELETE > > > command!").  > > > F > > > As long as we got a message stating that VERIFY had re-entered a fileC > > > back into it's indicated directory, I don't see it as a large  problem,. > > > rather something of a time(life?)-saver. > > >  > > > I dunno - whaddaya think?  > > >  > > > -- > > > David J. Dachtera  > > > dba DJE Systems  > > > http://www.djesys.com/ > > > @ > > > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:% > > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  > >  > >  >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 23 Jul 2000 07:14:48 GMT& From: Ellis E Hardin <eeh01@gnofn.org> Subject: Re: Editor Commands, Message-ID: <8le618$1vr6$1@junkie.gnofn.org>  3 Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote:  !EVE!!! and TPU!!!! ... 
 !EDT!! ...
 !emacs!!! ...  !vi!!!! ...  !... teco!!!! or ked!!!! ...
 !LSE!!!!! ...  !EDI!!!!...  !... StarOffice!!!!! ...  @ 	I think you forgot pico!!!!!  I assume there is a pico for VMS,I since they have pine for VMS, and pico was originally the internal editor @ for pine.  If anyone is interested in pico, you would find it atJ <http://www.washington.edu>, I would assume, since pine was created at the U of W.    --  # -- Ellis Hardin,  <eeh01@gnofn.org>    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 13:14:11 GMT & From: "Ed Wilts" <ewilts@mediaone.net>% Subject: Re: Help default boot & time ; Message-ID: <DcCe5.8926$M44.461913@typhoon.mn.mediaone.net>   D In article <8ldfvv$fc$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, unixguys@my-deja.com wrote:  H > Also does VMS "always" ask for the time when booting up or are both of5 > these problems related to a dead internal battery ?   G There is a SYSGEN parameter (TIMEPROMPT?) that might be set - if so, it " will prompt, since that's its job.  I > Also when mounting the cd via mount dka400 vaxvms072 the cd mounts with G > the message %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, VAXVMS072 mounted on _HOBBY$DKA400: but I > for the life of me I cannot find on the filesystem where it is mounted, H > so what is the trick to mounting and accessing the drive to read files > etc. on the cd. ?   ? It looks like it's already mounted, so you can start with $ DIR H DKA400:[000000] to access the drive. There isn't a trick to mounting the$ CD, since you've already mounted it!   	.../Ed    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 12:43:49 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> 1 Subject: Re: New SKC Postings on www.acersoft.com ( Message-ID: <8lf79u$dli$1@pyrite.mv.net>  9 Terry C. Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> wrote in message   news:Fy4nAx.4EJ@world.std.com...K > There's recent material on the new GS-Series, the Himalaya S74000 series, K > and Compaq's ZLE strategy posted on http://www.acersoft.com. There's also  a = > 1.25MB PPT file of my July 13 OZTUG presentation in Sydney.  > G > I expect that my writeup on CHARON-VAX will be posted shortly. In the : > interim, the writeup is available on www.charon-vax.com. > 	 > cheers,  > 	 > terry s  >  >   F Just finished scanning Terry's Australia presentation (FinalOzTug.ppt, downloaded from acersoft.com).  L Granting that he was presenting to a Tandem audience, it sure looked like heL had a far more encouraging story to tell Tandem users than he would have hadI to tell VMS users:  prognostications of an explosion of Himalaya sales in F the enterprise space, reports of vigorous R&D efforts, lists of Tandem@ strongholds that included most of those that Compaq lists as VMS strongholds...  I It would not be a stretch to suspect that the reason we haven't seen more J enthusiasm from Compaq (save for verbal reassurances and efforts involvingI minimal funding) regarding its 'VMS renaissance' is not because they have I the combined intelligence of a tree-stump but because they have alternate I plans that just don't include VMS as an important contributor:  Tandem in F the enterprise space, Tru64 in the mid-range (including its developingJ clustering abilities and its NonStop configuration on the Tandem IntegrityL hardware - RIP ftVAX), and Windows on IA hardware wherever they can sell it.H And given that we already know that Compaq likes to avoid competing withF itself, it's hard to find a significant hole for VMS to fill in such aE strategy, even though we could suggest that a different strategy that I included a significant VMS presence (and more product overlap) might be at stronger one overall.m  J That would explain Compaq's actions (right up to the present) a lot betterE than postulating a continuing suicidal dependence on eventual Windows?I supremacy.  It would also be a lot more difficult to argue against, since-I they may well be willing to compromise ultimate market share if it allowseI them to simplify their product set (as I've said from the first, I reallyy< don't think they're comfortable being a software developer).  	 Comments?0   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 17:44:53 GMT % From: hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net> 1 Subject: Re: New SKC Postings on www.acersoft.comN0 Message-ID: <397B309A.41FC12DB@bellatlantic.net>  0 Hmm, I seem to recall something about galaxy....A wasn't there some work on multiple OS on a single multiple cpu hw"	 platform? 4 something like vms, tru64, linux on the same box....     Bill Todd wrote: > ; > Terry C. Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> wrote in messagec" > news:Fy4nAx.4EJ@world.std.com...M > > There's recent material on the new GS-Series, the Himalaya S74000 series,iM > > and Compaq's ZLE strategy posted on http://www.acersoft.com. There's alsow > a ? > > 1.25MB PPT file of my July 13 OZTUG presentation in Sydney.  > >;I > > I expect that my writeup on CHARON-VAX will be posted shortly. In the.< > > interim, the writeup is available on www.charon-vax.com. > >  > > cheers,a > >  > > terry ss > >u > >v > H > Just finished scanning Terry's Australia presentation (FinalOzTug.ppt,  > downloaded from acersoft.com). > N > Granting that he was presenting to a Tandem audience, it sure looked like heN > had a far more encouraging story to tell Tandem users than he would have hadK > to tell VMS users:  prognostications of an explosion of Himalaya sales inkH > the enterprise space, reports of vigorous R&D efforts, lists of TandemB > strongholds that included most of those that Compaq lists as VMS > strongholds... > K > It would not be a stretch to suspect that the reason we haven't seen moreLL > enthusiasm from Compaq (save for verbal reassurances and efforts involvingK > minimal funding) regarding its 'VMS renaissance' is not because they haveuK > the combined intelligence of a tree-stump but because they have alternatepK > plans that just don't include VMS as an important contributor:  Tandem in H > the enterprise space, Tru64 in the mid-range (including its developingL > clustering abilities and its NonStop configuration on the Tandem IntegrityN > hardware - RIP ftVAX), and Windows on IA hardware wherever they can sell it.J > And given that we already know that Compaq likes to avoid competing withH > itself, it's hard to find a significant hole for VMS to fill in such aG > strategy, even though we could suggest that a different strategy thatdK > included a significant VMS presence (and more product overlap) might be al > stronger one overall.i > L > That would explain Compaq's actions (right up to the present) a lot betterG > than postulating a continuing suicidal dependence on eventual Windows K > supremacy.  It would also be a lot more difficult to argue against, sincesK > they may well be willing to compromise ultimate market share if it allowssK > them to simplify their product set (as I've said from the first, I reallyi> > don't think they're comfortable being a software developer). >  > Comments?i >  > - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 05:29:19 GMT ( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>+ Subject: Re: Undocumented commands in UCX ?D' Message-ID: <Fy4xwv.In0@spcuna.spc.edu>   2 Richard B. Gilbert <DRAGON@compuserve.com> writes:J >         I've never had the opportunity to work with Multinet!  I wish it > were otherwise.   H   Well, if you have a hobby system you can get a MultiNet license for it4 for free: http://www.process.com/tcpip/hobbyist.html  F >         I believe that *all* VMS TCP/IP packages except CMU-TEK wereI > originally ports of the Berkeley code.  The other vendors had a several I > year head start in which to find and fix the Berkeley bugs.  DEC didn't M > really want to be in the TCP/IP business in the first place and it showed! r  J   I think it's more accurate to say that they didn't understand the demandH for TCP/IP - after all, even the name of the product (Ultrix Connection)? implied that you'd only want to use to to talk to Ultrix boxes.e  G   Remember, DEC was off wasting time on DECnet-OSI and ignoring TCP/IP.   L   Regarding "Berkeley bugs", the TCP stack on 4.3BSD and subsequent releasesM is quite stable. In fact, it may have hurt more than helped to branch off and J not track the Berkeley changes - for example, MultiNet had to add path MTUI discovery, timestamps, and IPv6 themselves rather than using the Berkeley  code.r  J > Their choice of a third party TCP/IP product to sell and support (FusionK > from Network Research) was ill conceived.  If they had had the wit do buykK > and market the Stanford package which later became Multinet, we would allb > have been a lot better off.a  J   Neither DEC nor Compaq seems to have a good grasp on what customers wantL as the "official" package - witness the sell-off of the performance monitor-J ing tools to CA, and more recently Compaq not doing anything about the ac- quisition of Innosoft by Sun.V  - 	Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com 5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USAo   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 12:14:30 +0200 5 From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@whitehouse.nl>.+ Subject: Re: Undocumented commands in UCX ? - Message-ID: <397AC586.8FE1FC69@whitehouse.nl>e   "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote:a  J >         Why do you say this is uncalled for?   5.0 was seriously broken.  @ V5.0 had its bugs, but I wouldn't call is seriously broken. Most, customers had no problems working with V5.0.  > > I have worked with UCX since release 2.8E (or was it 2.7E?).  H It was V2.0E. After this V3.0 (alpha only) and V3.1 (alpha and vax) came out.   Oswald   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 10:54:40 -0500I1 From: Jeff Schreiber <SCHREIBER@Eisner.DECUS.org> + Subject: Re: Undocumented commands in UCX ? 1 Message-ID: <01JS3R3EU9HI0055OV@Eisner.DECUS.org>e  E >        I believe that *all* VMS TCP/IP packages except CMU-TEK were ' >originally ports of the Berkeley code.n >        Multinet yes.  TCPware no.  % Message text written by Terry Kennedy 3 >Richard B. Gilbert <DRAGON@compuserve.com> writes:zK >         Can you say "Unix"?   The original UCX was a port of the BerkeleyyI > code.  It was a late port, the other vendors; TGV, TWG, etc. had a head> > start of several years.   H   So? Have you looked at the banner MultiNet spits out at startup? Hint:F "MultiNet V4.2 Rev A-X (4.3bsd-tahoe+ Networking)". That looks pretty  Berkeley-ish to me...p <l  L     Richard already mentioned TGV as a list of vendors that had a head start     a port of the berkley code.e  
 					-Jeff   --/ Jeff Schreiber,            Process Software LLC 1 schreiber@mx.process.com   http://www.process.come+      TCPware & MultiNet: Stronger than Everl   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 09:45:09 -0700o) From: David Leinbach <leinbach@telus.net>  Subject: VAXAStation 3100Y) Message-ID: <397B2115.7D05F424@telus.net>N  F I just received a VAXStation 3100 (model 38 I believe -- the model tagD on the back says VS42A-AA) and I am wondering what I need to run it.F All I received was the main box, a power cord, and a cord that has theF RJ11 type connector with the offset tab (for lack of a better name) atC one end an an RJ45 connector at the other.  As I understand it fromAH Compaq's site, I can connect it to another computer to run from (would aD Win2K machine work?) but they weren't clear on how other than sayingH that I must change S3 to the up position.  As well, I keep hearing aboutF hobbyists licenses for OpenVMS, where can I get this and how much does it cost?  Thanks   Davidh   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.409 ************************