1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 29 Jul 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 421       Contents:$ Re: ADV: High Search Engine Rankings? Re: Datatrieve (was Re : Interbase 6.0 released as Open Source)  Digital documentation / Re: is there a database available for VMS hobby / Re: is there a database available for VMS hobby  Left in The Dust Re: Memory & CPU Support  Re: Microvax 3100-10 and 20  $99( Re: New SKC Postings on www.acersoft.com Open VMS on Alpha XL266  Re: Open VMS on Alpha XL266 ! Re: Subtracting Dates Time in DCL ! Re: Subtracting Dates Time in DCL 
 Re: Such Crap 
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 Re: Such Crap  VMS CD create/copy Re: VMS CD create/copy: Re: VMS process manipulate data on SQLServer/NT box : How?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 10:22:05 +0200 ) From: Nothereplease <o'nospam@goaway.com> - Subject: Re: ADV: High Search Engine Rankings + Message-ID: <VA.00000095.1f00111e@sture.ch>   3 In article <200007280005.AAA24490@relmess>,  wrote:  > From: mike@yycbvecker2931.mx > Newsgroups: comp.os.vms + > Subject: ADV: High Search Engine Rankings - > Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 00:05:53 +0000 (GMT)  >  >  > Removal instructions below > % > I saw your listing on the internet.  > ' > I work for a company that specializes % > in getting clients web sites listed # > as close to the top of the major   > search engines as possible.  > % > Our fee is only $29.95 per month to # > submit your site at least twice a # > month to over 350 search engines   > and directories. > & > To get started and put your web site& > in the fast lane, call our toll free > number below.  > G What a rip off! It took me about 10 minutes to register my web address  A with a couple of major search engines, and 6 months later, their  E searchbots still visit my site every day. Maybe not top of the list,   but how does Page 1 get you?   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 22:59:23 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>H Subject: Re: Datatrieve (was Re : Interbase 6.0 released as Open Source)- Message-ID: <3982488B.5535CB6C@tsoft-inc.com>    Malcolm Dunnett wrote: > : > In article <009EDBB5.BDE375E0@SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>,W >        winston@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU ("Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr") writes:  > >  > > S > > I'm actually using Datatrieve very happily now, mostly in batch mode to produce R > > reports and web pages for automatic distribution.  Runs well, easy to code in,O > > and on an AS2100 5/300 it isn't too bad to run for interactive use.  On the S > > VAX 11/750 I learned it on, I spent a lot of time figuring out how to optimize.  > > Q >       We have some applications here which use Datatrieve quite extensively and P > are also quite happy with it ( on a 500MHz EV5 ). Getting rid of the CDD cruftQ > and going to text based dictionaries eliminated most of my complaints with DTR.  > 9 >      If only they'd make it work with Oracle tables :-)   K Shameless plug for a friend.  XENTIS is a reporting and more product that I L believe includes Oracle (watch me be wrong, again) support.  In addition, itO works with RMS, RDB, several other databases, and my own favorite, DAS.  Really 8 nice product for those that need to do ad-hoc reporting.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 07:21:44 -0700 # From: Mark Tarka <markZERO@mcn.net>  Subject: Digital documentation# Message-ID: <3982E878.6797@mcn.net>   8 The appended goes as a single bundle to the first person7 to present a check to cover postage (e.g. for 20 lbs of 9 paper and plastic...from Bozeman, MT to L.A., CA...Parcel ; Post $13, Book Rate $8, Priority $17 -- check your mailroom > or local post office for numbers applicable to your location), otherwise, the landfill.  4 Mark Tarka   markZERO@mcn.net  (Replace ZERO with 0) POB 5036 Bozeman, MT 59717-5036  @ ----------------------------------------------------------------  $ System Enhancement Guide, April 19960 ER-792WW-UA. A01  Prioris XL Server User's GuideC ER-4QXAA-UA .B01  ServerWORKS Manager -- Administrator User's Guide @ AA-QEUNB-TE  ManageWORKS Workgroup Administrator Getting StartedC 99-10119-01 .A01  Manage Works, Workgroup Administrator v. 2.2 (CD) . 99-10118-01 .A01  ServerWORKS Manager, Console$ 		Application and Agents v. 1.1 (CD); ER-4WY9A-IM. A01  Server Works Quick Launch Reference Guide @ ER-870WW-AA. A01  NCR SCSI Device Management System User's Guide) Systems and Options Catalog, January 1995 0 EK-DTLSV-OG. A01  AlphaServer 1000 Owner's Guide; AA-Q8ZVA-TE  GIGAswitch System AGL-2 Release Notes (v. 1.0) 5 AA-PZT9C-TE  GIGAswotch System Release Notes (v. 2.1) C EK-GAGL2-RC. A01  GIGAswitch System AGL-2 Manager's Reference Guide / EK-DSRVZ-IN. B01  DECserver 9000TM Installation , EK-DECBR-IN. A01  DECbrouter 90 InstallationE EK-DETMR-OM. C01  DECrepeater 90T and DECrepeater 90T+ Owner's Manual 8 EK-DECBR-GS. A01  DECbrouter 90 Products Getting Started Network Products Guide, 1995   ------------------------------    Date: 29 Jul 2000 08:15:44 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) 8 Subject: Re: is there a database available for VMS hobby+ Message-ID: <92SiKfQrEw87@eisner.decus.org>   j In article <pEpg5.154$mO3.29679@typhoon.aracnet.com>, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes:6 > Chris Casey <Chris.Casey@hendersonnospam.com> wrote:* >> Take a look at Cache from Intersystems.J >> This is one of the fastest and most scaleable databases around for VMS.N >> It's predecessor DSM used to produce benchmark figures that scared the hell >> out of Oracle and Rdb.  >> (www.intersys.com)  > M > Unfortunatly for hobbyists, which is unfortunatly the catagory I fall into, M > the free personal use versions are only for Linux and Windows.  I wonder if 7 > they could be talked into a OpenVMS Hobbyist version.   D Intersystems has a renewed emphasis on VMS (see a recent joint pressC release with Compaq), but it is possible they have never even heard D of the VMS Hobbyist program.  If you approach them emphasis the ideaD that some of the people who do Hobbyist VMS at home do paying VMS onD the job.  Don't be afraid to mention Oracle to them by name, as theyA certainly must realize that Oracle sells more on VMS than they do ( and I know they want greater mind-share.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 16:21:02 GMT 4 From: LESLIE@209-16-45-102.insync.net (Jerry Leslie)8 Subject: Re: is there a database available for VMS hobby' Message-ID: <OvDg5.343$XL5.6917@insync>   : Larry Kilgallen (Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam) wrote: : F : Intersystems has a renewed emphasis on VMS (see a recent joint pressE : release with Compaq), but it is possible they have never even heard F : of the VMS Hobbyist program.  If you approach them emphasis the ideaF : that some of the people who do Hobbyist VMS at home do paying VMS onF : the job.  Don't be afraid to mention Oracle to them by name, as theyC : certainly must realize that Oracle sells more on VMS than they do * : and I know they want greater mind-share.  @ It might not hurt to mention that there's a non-trvial number of@ Sybase-on-VMS users who are looking for a way to stay on VMS, if: at all possible, without the pain of converting to Oracle.    / --Jerry Leslie   leslie@209-16-45-97.insync.net ;                  leslie@209-16-45-102.insync.net is invalid 2                  (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 12:35:07 -0500 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>  Subject: Left in The Dust - Message-ID: <398315CB.83CBB6E4@earthlink.net>   3 Well, Sun has launched their "The Dot" campaign ...   % ...and OpenVMS is left in the dust...   
 ... AGAIN !!!   G I know, I know - the Q just acquired new Ad/Marketing leadership. Let's G hope they don't have their predecessors' feet-dragging ways! ...and the > folks at the top have the good sense to stay out of their way!   WANTED ------  E Anyone with television and/or multi-media production or tech. theatre H experience for production of privately-developed OpenVMS ad campaigns toA be used by partners and/or ISVs and also be presented to Compaq.    D This is strictly a volunteer effort; however, any money raised by orF during this effort will be divided evenly among the participants after0 production-related expenses have been disbursed.  F Co-ordination will be done pre-production, over the internet and/or byG teleconference. Actual production location has not yet been determined.   % Apply by e-mail: djesys@earthlink.net   B We cannot provide housing or relocation assistance. US- and non-USG residents must cover their own travel expenses, and all applicants must   cover their own living expenses.  E Anyone wishing to help fund this effort or otherwise donate financial 6 participation should also e-mail to the above address.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 29 Jul 2000 14:40:41 GMT0 From: "Dale A. Dellutri" <ddellutr@enteract.com>! Subject: Re: Memory & CPU Support - Message-ID: <8luqd9$2gg2$1@news.enteract.com>   d On 27 Jul 2000 11:53:26 GMT, Bart Z. Lederman <lederman@star.enet.dec.disable-junk-email.com> wrote:: > Actually coming up with an application that will keep 32@ > processors busy at the same time is another matter altogether.@ > I would be very interested to hear from anyone who thinks they? > have such an application.  We have seen applications that use = > up to 14 processors on existing platforms, but I'm not sure  > they'd scale to 32.   = I don't think it would be difficult for us.  We have a set of D applications which run repeatedly over a "small" database (< 250 Mb)? with different parameter sets.  We use a global section to keep A the entire database in memory.  The programs themselves have very 9 small working sets (< 200 K pagelets = 100 Kb).  They run @ independently, and communicate with a central process just twice; each run -- at the beginning to get a parameter set, and at B the end to report results and get a new parameter set for the nextB run.  As long as we have enough physical memory, I'm sure we could8 easily keep any number of CPUs busy (since the amount of? synchronization communication between the processes is so small = compared to the CPU time needed to run through the database).   B Right now, these processes run on up to 6 non-clustered ES40s eachA with 4 CPUs and 1 Gb memory.  We are heavily CPU bound (length of D compute wait queue is almost always equal to the number of processes4 running - 4), with almost no paging and no swapping.  5 This is a real-world, financial research application.   E We looked at getting two 8 CPU GS80s versus four 4 CPU ES40s the last ? time we increased the CPU horsepower here.  The GS80s were just C slighly more expensive than the ES40s, and we already had two 4 CPU < ES40s, so we got four more.  We're very happy with the total throughput.    --  & Dale Dellutri -- ddellutr@enteract.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 23:26:48 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>) Subject: Re: Microvax 3100-10 and 20  $99 - Message-ID: <39824EF8.EAD5E978@tsoft-inc.com>    Wayne Sewell wrote:  > L > Just think about this, however.  Island is pretty much the only vendor whoO > ignores the rules, since the other companies selling vms stuff are staffed by Q > professionals.  If you give them the impression that ads are tolerated, or even N > welcomed, they might lose their inhibitions.  If *all* of these vendors dumpN > crap into the newsgroup, you might find a dozen ads for each technical post. > Is that what you really want?  > P > That's why there are separate newsgroups explicitly for buying and selling.  IL > think it's been proposed before, but a vmsnet newsgroup for advertisements@ > would be a good thing.  Hell, give Island their own newsgroup,P > vmsnet.island.ads.and.auctions.and.other.shit.  Unfortunately, they would post > both there *and* comp.os.vms.   P Ok, in all fairness, I've never seen any 'rules' about newsgroups.  If there areJ such, and they're being violated, that's wrong.  Trying to read everythingL that's already posted to comp.os.vms is almost a full time job now, and if aC bunch of advertisements appeared, it'd be worse, no argument there.   H Where would one find such rules?  I'm mildly interested, even though I'm8 normally of the mind that 'rules are made to be broken'.  P AS for the Island ads, I'd view normal ads and what are basically give-aways forM hobby systems differently.  Regardless of any rules, I'd feel that the latter N should be Ok.  Many reasons.  One, a potential hobbyist probably isn't looking$ at the 'commercial' sites/lists/???.  M In any case, I've usually been more irritated by the numerous complaints that P many times follow and vastly outnumber advertisements.  The best method for suchD is totally ignoring them, thus rendering them useless to the poster.  L Hey, the guy has asked, give him some help on how to set up an advertisementN group for VMS stuff, and then advertise that once a week or so in comp.os.vms, and everybody's happy.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  ! Date: Sat, 29 Jul 00 08:47:09 GMT  From: jmfbahciv@aol.com 1 Subject: Re: New SKC Postings on www.acersoft.com , Message-ID: <8lug56$bla$10@bob.news.rcn.net>  5 In article <8lsmbo$5ee$1@newssvr02.news.prodigy.com>, *    davidsen@tmr.com (bill davidsen) wrote: > . >In article <397D9EF9.1193BB9C@netinsight.se>,: >Johnny Billquist  <Johnny.Billquist@netinsight.se> wrote: > H >| Unfortunately, history seems to imply that they don't. Atleast no the
 >| "when".' >| Just ask the (ex) TOPS-20 customers.  > C >  Not quite the same, since the hardware was not the same as other  >operating systems.  > B >  TOPS-20 went the way of MULTICS, no hardware made any more, and >software not support or sold.  0 Wrong.  TOPS-10 isn't supported or sold anymore.E PDP-10s are alive and well running TOPS20.  They just don't have that # putrid d|i|g|i|t|a|l| logo on them.    /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 13:58:34 +0200 ? From: Fim =?iso-8859-1?Q?W=E4stberg?= <fim.wastberg@fimator.se>   Subject: Open VMS on Alpha XL266* Message-ID: <3982C6EA.286C5B1A@fimator.se>  2 I have got an Alpha XL266 with an 21064 processor.G Now I am trying to install vms from 'openvms hobbyist alpha cdrom', but D as far as I know, Compaq is not supporting Open VMS on that machine,3 just Win NT, but I have heard that it  is possible.   H Does anybody know anything about how to install Open VMS on Alpha XL266,  ! pls give me some tips/information  --# Med vnliga hlsningar/Best regards 
 FIMATOR AB Fim Wstberg CPIM E ---------------------------------------------------------------------  Box 63 177 22  JRFLLA SWEDEN- Tel   : 08 580 277 00 Abroad +46 8 580 277 00 E Fax   : 08 584 116 90        +46 8 584 116 90 <=== NEW per 1-Feb-2000 , Mobil : 070 810 73 91        +46 7 810 73 91 e-mail: fim.wastberg@fimator.se    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 07:47:44 -0700 (PDT) ! From: Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> $ Subject: Re: Open VMS on Alpha XL266E Message-ID: <Pine.ULT.3.91.1000729074537.207N-100000@gunn.kednos.com>   H I have one of these as well.  The only thing these machines will run is G NT and Linux.  For linux you need linload and milo to bootstrap from a   DOS partition.  ; On Sat, 29 Jul 2000, Fim =?iso-8859-1?Q?W=E4stberg?= wrote:   ' > Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 13:58:34 +0200 A > From: Fim =?iso-8859-1?Q?W=E4stberg?= <fim.wastberg@fimator.se>  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com2" > Subject: Open VMS on Alpha XL266 > 4 > I have got an Alpha XL266 with an 21064 processor.I > Now I am trying to install vms from 'openvms hobbyist alpha cdrom', butoF > as far as I know, Compaq is not supporting Open VMS on that machine,5 > just Win NT, but I have heard that it  is possible.e > J > Does anybody know anything about how to install Open VMS on Alpha XL266, > # > pls give me some tips/information  > --% > Med vdnliga hdlsningar/Best regards  > FIMATOR AB > Fim Wdstberg CPIM G > ---------------------------------------------------------------------u > Box 63 > 177 22  JDRFDLLA > SWEDEN/ > Tel   : 08 580 277 00 Abroad +46 8 580 277 00 G > Fax   : 08 584 116 90        +46 8 584 116 90 <=== NEW per 1-Feb-2000-. > Mobil : 070 810 73 91        +46 7 810 73 91! > e-mail: fim.wastberg@fimator.se: >  >  >  >   A                __________________________________________________cA               /_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ @              /_/                                             /_/?             /_/     Tom Linden              PL/I Support    /_/i>            /_/    Kednos Corporation       OpenVMS and     /_/=           /_/   tel 831 373 7003          Tru64 Unix      /_/o<          /_/_____________________________________________/_/;         /_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/o   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 08:18:41 +0200 2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)* Subject: Re: Subtracting Dates Time in DCL; Message-ID: <39827741.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>u  % Scott Brooks (SBROOKS@psu.edu) wrote:tG : In a Open VMS DCL COM file, all I would like to do it take two dates,e@ : subtract them, and then be able to compare the number of days.  D If you really want to do date math, the easiest probably would be toC convert the dates to julian days. The conversion between a VMS date-: string and d/m/y is left as an exercise to the reader. ;-)   Hope this helps,   Martin   [-- snip(pet) --]> From: Pierre.Bru@spotimage.frR@ Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11,alt.sys.pdp11,comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec6 Subject: Re: Y2K Conversion of Date to Internal Format# Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:51:29 GMT4  J here is a DCL version of the R.G. Tantzen algorithm that convert gregorianH date to julian day number and back. all is integer arithmetic and 32-bit	 integers.h  K this algorithm is year-2000-proof, leap-year-proof, century-leap-year-proofoJ and you can compute julain day with this algorithm back to the begining of) the gregorian calendar, october 15, 1582.e  F I can give you explanations for all these 'magic' numbers if you want.   Pierre.   > $!------------------------------------------------------------ $! $! d/m/y -> julian $l $ if m.gt.2  $ then $       m = m - 3o $ else $       m = m + 9i $       y = y - 1  $ endifn $o
 $ c = y / 100t $ y = y - 100*ce $o9 $ j = c*146097/4 + y*1461/4 + (m*153 + 2)/5 + d + 1721119a $i> $!------------------------------------------------------------% $ write sys$output "julian day: ''j'"t> $!------------------------------------------------------------ $! $! julian -> d/m/y $  $ j = j - 1721119r $o $ y = (4*j - 1)/146097 $ j = (4*j - 1)-146097*y	 $ d = j/4u $f $ j = (4*d + 3)/1461 $ d = (4*d + 3)-1461*j
 $ d = (d+4)/4a $  $ m = (5*d - 3)/153  $ d = (5*d - 3)-153*m0
 $ d = (d+5)/5n $p $ y = y*100 + jF $  $ if m.lt.10 $ then $       m = m + 3  $ else $       m = m - 9i $       y = y + 1. $ endifm $n> $!------------------------------------------------------------# $ write sys$output "''d' ''m' ''y'"0> $!------------------------------------------------------------   --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.detN One OS to bring them all      |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 19:11:40 +0010s% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.auR* Subject: Re: Subtracting Dates Time in DCL5 Message-ID: <01JSCMBFIZ2A002CTH@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>-  F This subject has occurred so frequently that perhaps Hoff could put a * "reasonably definitive" answer in the FAQ.  I Many .COM "programs" and code snippets in Fortran or C have been posted,  P available from Deja-news or other archives of this newsgroup.  These latter are N quite easy programs to call from DCL so this is not against the wishes of the  thread originator.    N [Flying again in two days to Adelaide, several thousand Info-Vax mails when I  return.]  5 Perhaps an extension of f$cvtime could be considered.e   Regards, Paddy   Paddy O'Brien, Transmission Development,D
 TransGrid, PO Box A1000, Sydney South,  NSW 2000, Australias   Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050& Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  M Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people,K; but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.A   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 10:22:03 +0200p  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> Subject: Re: Such Crap+ Message-ID: <VA.00000094.1f000681@sture.ch>G  M In article <y4em4ejqar.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, Jan   Vorbrueggen wrote:I > From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>a > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsg > Subject: Re: Such Crap" > Date: 28 Jul 2000 16:13:48 +0200 > 4 > "Terry C. Shannon" <shannon@world.std.com> writes: > M > > > > [...] ISE (International Securities Exchange) is a NEW Customer [...]:P > > > I do hope they forced CPQ to sign a source escrow agreement before buying.N > > Oh, don't worry. They get Michael Capellas' first born son (if he has one)P > > as escrow. Also 12 of the buildings on the Houston campus. And a buy-back of > > the Maynard Mill.n > P > That would be quite useless if Compaq goes out of business, or decides to drop > VMS at some future time. > O > > Now what the hell else do you in your infinite wisdom believe a new OpenVMSr > > buyer ought to get?s > H > Exactly what I said: a source code escrow agreement, paid for by theirM > own money, as a form of insurance. I _am_ presuming you know what the word yM > "escrow" means. Given your wording above about MC, I am note sure, however.  > Q It was over 20 years ago that I learnt what "escrow" means in terms of software. aI It was not only one of the standard questions we asked all our potential  N software suppliers, but a specific requirement, right from our parent company.  M Later, when working for a software house, I introduced the idea to them, and LQ suddenly they realised why the blank looks of incomprehension at the word during 50 sales demos scared off major clients so quickly. ___s
 Paul Sture Switzerlandt   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 23:52:34 -0400e* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: Such Crap- Message-ID: <39825502.CEA8FFB0@tsoft-inc.com>a   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: > 4 > "Terry C. Shannon" <shannon@world.std.com> writes: > M > > > > [...] ISE (International Securities Exchange) is a NEW Customer [...]aP > > > I do hope they forced CPQ to sign a source escrow agreement before buying.N > > Oh, don't worry. They get Michael Capellas' first born son (if he has one)P > > as escrow. Also 12 of the buildings on the Houston campus. And a buy-back of > > the Maynard Mill.i > P > That would be quite useless if Compaq goes out of business, or decides to drop > VMS at some future time. > O > > Now what the hell else do you in your infinite wisdom believe a new OpenVMSt > > buyer ought to get?- > H > Exactly what I said: a source code escrow agreement, paid for by theirL > own money, as a form of insurance. I _am_ presuming you know what the wordM > "escrow" means. Given your wording above about MC, I am note sure, however.  > 
 >         Jan   O A source code escrow would be rather useless.  The current VMS development teamQN is rather large, and has people working in different areas, who probably wouldK have a decent learning curve in another area, even after being aware of thesJ development environment.  I seriously doubt any single user would have theO capability of doing anything significant with the source code.  As for drivers,aN user written system services, and other system type programming, there is suchE capability now, and there is the availability of the source listings.v  O What I would ask for is a commitment to not sell VMS to CA, preferably one thattM would actually cost Compaq money in addition to not receiving any payment foro the product.   Dave   -- ,4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 14:47:55 GMT 0 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <shannon@world.std.com> Subject: Re: Such Crap& Message-ID: <FyGrI2.7Ip@world.std.com>  - "Paul Sture" <paul@sture.ch> wrote in messagei% news:VA.00000094.1f000681@sture.ch.../J > In article <y4em4ejqar.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, Jant > Vorbrueggen wrote:K > > From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  > > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsl > > Subject: Re: Such Crap$ > > Date: 28 Jul 2000 16:13:48 +0200 > >u6 > > "Terry C. Shannon" <shannon@world.std.com> writes: > >,I > > > > > [...] ISE (International Securities Exchange) is a NEW Customer  [...]yJ > > > > I do hope they forced CPQ to sign a source escrow agreement before buying.iK > > > Oh, don't worry. They get Michael Capellas' first born son (if he hase one)F > > > as escrow. Also 12 of the buildings on the Houston campus. And a buy-back of  > > > the Maynard Mill.  > >oJ > > That would be quite useless if Compaq goes out of business, or decides to drop  > > VMS at some future time. > >tI > > > Now what the hell else do you in your infinite wisdom believe a newt OpenVMSr > > > buyer ought to get?t > >oJ > > Exactly what I said: a source code escrow agreement, paid for by theirI > > own money, as a form of insurance. I _am_ presuming you know what thea wordF > > "escrow" means. Given your wording above about MC, I am note sure, however. > >eH > It was over 20 years ago that I learnt what "escrow" means in terms of	 software. J > It was not only one of the standard questions we asked all our potentialG > software suppliers, but a specific requirement, right from our parentc company. > J > Later, when working for a software house, I introduced the idea to them, andtK > suddenly they realised why the blank looks of incomprehension at the wordh during2 > sales demos scared off major clients so quickly.  K Come to think of it, this practice was relatively common in the US 20 years I ago; but haven't heard of it being used of late. Heck, if it would ensuredH that OpenVMS remained out of the evil clutches of CA, it would be a Good Thing.  L Then too, recall the technology sharing agreement between DEC and Microsoft.I uSoft theoretically has access to all there is to know about OpenVMS. (Of 3 course, they have the purloined Mica code as well!)   . Good thing they don't seem inclined to use it!   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 16:27:22 GMT,4 From: LESLIE@209-16-45-102.insync.net (Jerry Leslie) Subject: Re: Such Crap' Message-ID: <KBDg5.344$XL5.6917@insync>e  + David A Froble (davef@tsoft-inc.com) wrote:  :n	 : {snip} oI : What I would ask for is a commitment to not sell VMS to CA, preferably  I : one that would actually cost Compaq money in addition to not receiving f : any payment for the product. :  : Dave :   E In an earlier article about CA, Message-ID 1999May8.103029.1@eisner, g4 Bob Kaplow had a good idea about a way to handle CA:  E  "In talking with a friend at Platinum, I jokingly suggested that we nE   should have had a purchase clause in the contract: if the software eG   or company is sold, we have the option to get all of our money back. bH   He said that they have MANY contracts with such wording in them. I've I   suggested that it be in all of our future software purchase contracts.".    / --Jerry Leslie   leslie@209-16-45-97.insync.netl;                  leslie@209-16-45-102.insync.net is invalids2                  (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 12:00:56 -0500 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>t Subject: Re: Such Crap- Message-ID: <39830DC8.FE4AF9BD@earthlink.net>b   Jerry Leslie wrote:e > - > David A Froble (davef@tsoft-inc.com) wrote:y > :r
 > : {snip}J > : What I would ask for is a commitment to not sell VMS to CA, preferablyJ > : one that would actually cost Compaq money in addition to not receiving  > : any payment for the product. > :s > : Dave > :I > F > In an earlier article about CA, Message-ID 1999May8.103029.1@eisner,6 > Bob Kaplow had a good idea about a way to handle CA: > F >  "In talking with a friend at Platinum, I jokingly suggested that weF >   should have had a purchase clause in the contract: if the softwareH >   or company is sold, we have the option to get all of our money back.I >   He said that they have MANY contracts with such wording in them. I've K >   suggested that it be in all of our future software purchase contracts."    I would add to that:  H "If the product or company is ever sold or transferred such that anotherC party achieves partial or complete control of the product, customer2G shall be entitled to a full and complete refund, with no witholding, of-E any and all funds paid to acquire the product and any and all updates-G and upgrades, and any all funds paid to company for support contracts.".  G That should be a sufficiently bitter "poison pill" to keep the likes of5 CA away forever.  G Companies truly commited to the best interest of their customers shoulddD include in any contracts selling or transferring their product(s) toH another party clauses indicating that any increases in prices or chargesE for the product or its support in excess of a specific percentage persH unit of time would be cause for the nullification of the contract making such sale or transfer.   Quite the utopian, aren't I?   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsw http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 12:04:34 -0500o7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>B Subject: Re: Such Crap- Message-ID: <39830EA2.41C35C1B@earthlink.net>-   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > [snip]N > Then too, recall the technology sharing agreement between DEC and Microsoft.K > uSoft theoretically has access to all there is to know about OpenVMS. (Of 5 > course, they have the purloined Mica code as well!)  > 0 > Good thing they don't seem inclined to use it!  H ...or are sufficiently clueless as to how to integrate such well writtenD code into their (expletive deleted) as to render it useless to them.   -- y David J. Dachterat dba DJE Systemsp http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 29 Jul 2000 07:58:46 GMT0 From: FAZEKAS Mihaly <michael@goliat.eik.bme.hu> Subject: VMS CD create/copyo, Message-ID: <8lu2rm$1tc$1@goliat.eik.bme.hu>  ' How can i create VMS readable CD in PC?0+ (or: how can i copy VMS bootable CD in PC?)    -- a  mailto:michael@goliat.eik.bme.hu Phone: 463-1966-   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 12:15:24 -0500n7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>  Subject: Re: VMS CD create/copy9- Message-ID: <3983112C.A0BE1929@earthlink.net>o   FAZEKAS Mihaly wrote:  > ) > How can i create VMS readable CD in PC?L- > (or: how can i copy VMS bootable CD in PC?)o  H Well, you can copy a CD using Gear for Windows. It's quite easy, really.E Maybe I'll include that in an update to www.djesys.com sometime laterm
 this year.  C Creating a CD with assistance from a billybox is documented in manyi- places on the web, not the least of which is:   $ http://www.djesys.com/vms/cdrom.html  - There are also references in the OpenVMS FAQ:o  < http://www.openvms.digital.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html#FILE7   -- o David J. DachteraM dba DJE Systems, http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/S   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 10:21:58 +0200l  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch>C Subject: Re: VMS process manipulate data on SQLServer/NT box : How?-+ Message-ID: <VA.00000093.1efff3c4@sture.ch>   C In article <zukg5.26958$227.511670@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, S Paquin wrote:28 > From: "S Paquin" <stephane.paquin@nospam.ispatnet.com> > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsoE > Subject: Re: VMS process manipulate data on SQLServer/NT box : How?t' > Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 14:42:39 -0400_ > N >     I never said I would not buy another VMS box. But when the boss asks, heN > will want to know the options available and it is my job to provide him withM > all possible alternatives. One of them is popular now, SQLServer on NT(so I K > am sure I will get that ugly question...). But I am almost sure the lower N > cost of purchase of a PC box will be offset by the cost of a VMS ODBC clientM > and rewriting of applications on the VMS side. I am looking for information_ > to confirm this hunch. >-O When faced with NT as competition, you need to do some serious research. Count rO all the extras you need to bring the functionality you need that VMS gives you   out of the box.7  K Here's a rough example based on what I did for a small company 3 years ago o+ (and I'm possibly missing some stuff here).l  M For a complete NT solution I needed to price up the following, on top of the e base system:  O 1. S/w Support contracts - there might be several of these, all with different  
    suppliers.lN 2. Backup solution (it's extra for one which works). To save you some time,       try www.ultrabac.com.M 3. Resource Kit, and SDK (Software Development Kit) for documentation and    f' utilities which IMHO should come anyway1J 4. Development licenses - compilers whatever. You need the "Enterprise    5 Version" of most stuff to get the full functionality. K 5. Database licenses (remember that RMS comes for free, and would have doneu    for my particular job).N 6. Winzip / mail solution / whatever other packages you need, at corporate /  4   multi-user rather than personal use license costs.  G Finally, remember this:  Whatever database / compiler / extra piece of rM software you have in the VMS world tends to have a support contract of, say, sM 20% (it varies) of the purchase price per year, including telephone support, -4 patches, and automatic upgrades to the next version.  M In the Windows world however, that $1000 package you bought will probably be  K upgraded within 6 months to a year by a major release. As a loyal customer 7L they will typically offer only $100 to $200 discount on the new user price.   J Then, in the event of a malfunction, you might have the pain of having to L install the old version, followed by the new version, or at least having to M keep the old disks on hand so that you can "prove" it's a legitimate upgrade 0 version.  M Sometimes by shopping around you can find that new version cheaper by buying  ? it as a brand new user. So much for rewarding customer loyalty!   K One last thing. After registering your purchase with the various companies  M involved, you will get bombarded by one hell of a postbag encouraging you to -N buy this that and the other add-on / upgrade / related product. You will also $ get pestered by the phone and email. >- ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.421 ************************