1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 02 Jun 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 306       Contents: Re: Amazon jumps ship  Re: Amazon jumps ship  Re: Amazon jumps ship  Re: Amazon jumps ship  Re: Capellas supports Microsoft . Re: DOS (CMD) commands to Win 2000 from VMS AS RE: DP/BH books  Re: FTP RMS error  Re: General discussion comment Re: General discussion comment' Getting SRP Count and Usage from System & Guide to AST and reentrant programming- How can I get rid of a process in RWMPB state 1 Re: How can I get rid of a process in RWMPB state 1 Re: How can I get rid of a process in RWMPB state " OT: Books (was: Amazon jumps ship)& Re: OT: Books (was: Amazon jumps ship)& Re: OT: Books (was: Amazon jumps ship) set entry /after = "17:00" RE: set entry /after = "17:00" Re: set entry /after = "17:00" Re: set entry /after = "17:00" SUMMARY: What is KZPBA-CY? Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  VEST / DECmigrate  Re: VEST / DECmigrate  Re: VEST / DECmigrate  Re: VEST / DECmigrate  Re: VMS Documentation.3 VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever) 7 Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever) 7 Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever) 7 Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever) 7 Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever) 7 Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever) 7 Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever)  Re: VMS on the desktop? 4 Re: VMS V6.2 to V7.2 upgrade disaster (VAXsta 3138). Re: What is KSPBA-CY?  Re: What is KSPBA-CY?  Re: What is KSPBA-CY?  where to find firmware?  RE: Wildfire Announcement  Re: Wildfire Announcement  Re: Wildfire Announcement  Re: Wildfire Announcement  Re: Wildfire Announcement   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 19:39:12 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: Amazon jumps ship, Message-ID: <3936F420.4ACF98DC@videotron.ca>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:N > The question one has to ask is if there is one to ask is why were Amazon notQ > interested in marketing Compaq's consumer devices and why they seem to consider ' > HP to be a better brand in this area.   M My take on this is that Compaq hasn't taken a decisive turn to sell direct. I E think that Compaq is still stuck between the "channel" (distributors, S retailers) and can't start to compete against the "channel" by selling so directly.   L And Amazon probably didn't want to deal with a distributor for Compaq stuff.  ' Just specualtion on my part, of course.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 19:49:08 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: Amazon jumps ship, Message-ID: <3936F673.F22B5A78@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote:@ >         The best way (IMHO) to buy books is to go to Yahoo andI >         search books and find the cheapest one that comes up.  I bought K >         from alldirect.com and can't even remember the last outfit I used G >         and their service was good.  One other tip, use UPS .. it got & >         there in 3 days last time.      K Being in Canada, I *REFUSE* to buy anything that is shipped by UPS.  If the : store has no other option, I tell them and look elsewhere.  H UPS has a nasty habit is sending packages to a highway robbery firm (PBBK customs brokers) who will charge you upwards of $45.00 for the privilege of = collecting $5 worth of sales tax. FEDex only charges the tax.    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jun 2000 20:09:27 -0700 * From: dunnett@mala.bc.ca (Malcolm Dunnett) Subject: Re: Amazon jumps ship, Message-ID: <h14sS0Dva7BQ@malvm2.mala.bc.ca>  - In article <3936F673.F22B5A78@videotron.ca>,  3     JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:  > M > Being in Canada, I *REFUSE* to buy anything that is shipped by UPS.  If the < > store has no other option, I tell them and look elsewhere. > J > UPS has a nasty habit is sending packages to a highway robbery firm (PBBM > customs brokers) who will charge you upwards of $45.00 for the privilege of ? > collecting $5 worth of sales tax. FEDex only charges the tax.   F    UPS will generally clear the shipment for you themselves unless youC tell them to use a broker you specify. They seem to add $5-10 US to @ their shipping charge for the customs clearance ( plus the taxesF of course ). It seems that some places have a "default" customs brokerH on record, in which chase UPS will use them. If I have things shipped toH my work address it goes to the college's customs broker, who adds what IL consider outrageous service charges ( similar to what you quote above ), butJ if I have the same item sent to my home address UPS does the clearance for a reasonable fee.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 23:13:02 -0500 * From: Keith Brown <kbrown780@usfamily.net> Subject: Re: Amazon jumps ship, Message-ID: <3937344E.8FB961AD@usfamily.net>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  > JF Mezei wrote:  > * > > OK, I'll take a positive spin on this: > > ? > > 1- Sun is also losing amazon. (amazon was not Compaq only).  >  > > P > > 2- The more True64 customers Compaq loses, the greater the importante of VMS > > in the enterprise  > > department at Compaq.  > > R > > 3- This make give a good wakeup call at Compaq and instead of spending time toM > > support Microsoft that it should concentrate on fixing its own marketing.  > > ] > > 4- Hopefully some major shareholders of Compaq may start to question Capellas intentions.  > Z > This isn't a terribly new story, HP replaced a whole load of Compaq Alphaservers earlierR > on this year that were running Amazon's financials and other internal functions. > T > Amazon quoted their reasons at the time being HP's superior scalability (V-Series)S > and at the same time announced that they would be re-selling HP printers and PC's  > via their Web site.  > U > Since the V-Series arn't more scalable than either IBM's or Sun's by any metric you W > choose to use except that they scale to use more floor space one has to conclude that V > the V-Series were good enough for the job and the primary motivation was the deal to > sell HP PC's and printers. > S > This new deal seems to be an extension of the origional agreement to allow Amazon R > to market more HP products directly in return for more HP kit being installed to > run Amazons site.  > N > The question one has to ask is if there is one to ask is why were Amazon notQ > interested in marketing Compaq's consumer devices and why they seem to consider ' > HP to be a better brand in this area.  > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison  > Enterprise IT Architect   N > The question one has to ask is if there is one to ask is why were Amazon notN > interested in marketing Sun's consumer devices and why they seem to consider' > HP to be a better brand in this area.  >  --   Keith Brown  kbrown780@usfamily.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 13:10:03 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>( Subject: Re: Capellas supports Microsoft- Message-ID: <393698EB.786F1F2C@tsoft-inc.com>    JF Mezei wrote:  > P > Well, seems that Microsoft took Capellas support to heart and may use CapellasK > as witness in its attempt as preventing its breakuk. Heard this on CNN on 1 > Wednesday. Confirmed by a news item in reuters:  > R > And it took issue with another matter of definitions. Microsoft said the plan toD >  break up the company should be called a ``divestiture'' and not a >  ``reorganization.'' > P >  The company also listed a host of possible new witnesses it could call, amongJ >  them Michael Capellas, president and chief executive of Compaq ComputerJ >  Corp. (NYSE:CPQ - news), Jeffrey Katzenberg, a founder and principal ofA >  DreamWorks SKG, Tony Nicely, chairman of GEICO Corp., and John F >  Whitace, chairman and chief executive of Nordstrom Inc. (NYSE:JWN - >  news) > S > WHAT DOES COMPAQ HAVE TO GAIN BY BEING THE ONLY ONE TO SUPPORT MICROSOFT ????????   O Well, for one guess, they won't need Coral Office Suite as a barganing chip for  better MS prices?   K They liked being screwed by billie-boy so much that they want another dose?   L I honestly don't know.  MS was/is a hugh gorilla, and if you don't get alongO well with them, (read acceed to their demands), they can really hurt you.  Just I ask Netscape for one.  If I was in the hardware business, wintel hardware I business, I'd rather see some smaller players that I could use to compete H against each other rather than one big gorilla that can control my fate.  M The only thing I can figure is that billie-boy called Mike and asked him real L nice for some help.  Probably said he'd remember him in the future.  ProblemH with this is when he's not in trouble himself, the only thing billie-boyN remembers people for is when he's planning on whom is to be the next screwee. O Don't think I'd want him remembering me.  Of course, he may also be remembering " those who refused to help him. :-)   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596; 170 Grimplin Road               E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 23:10:03 GMT ! From: Ian Parker <parker@gol.com> 7 Subject: Re: DOS (CMD) commands to Win 2000 from VMS AS & Message-ID: <V5tsnQAZJZN5EwEB@gol.com>  C In article <4.2.0.58.20000531154343.01a12810@postoffice.brown.edu>, . Jeffrey Hiris <Jeffrey_Hiris@BROWN.EDU> writes >Hi all: > K >it never hurts to ask: does anyone know of a way to send a "DOS" (CMD.EXE) I >command string to a Win 2000 system from a VMS host via any command (LM, H >ADMIN, I don't care) ?  The Unix R commands are not an option--I'm justA >wondering if there's a command like ADMIN TELL that I've missed.  >  >thanks  > A >Jeff Hiris, System Manager               Jeffrey_Hiris@brown.edu = >171 Meeting St., Box G-B223              Phone: 401-863-3317 = >CHCR, Brown University   02912           FAX:   401-863-3489   G That's something I need.  From NT, I can issue remote commands by using G AT and specifying the remote NT system.  Is there, for example, any way  to do that from ADMIN?     --  
 Ian Parker   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 10:56:48 -0700 7 From: David D Miller <ddmiller@notes.west.raytheon.com>  Subject: RE: DP/BH booksF Message-ID: <OF6611DA2E.A89EFDAD-ON072568F1.00622D74@rsc.raytheon.com>   Folks:  K Here is a followup to my earlier post.  I wrote to Pam to be sure she would / welcome VMS suggestions.  This is her response.    dave.     . Pam Chester (Pam.Chester@bhusa.com) writes ...  C That's great! Thanks, Dave. We're looking to freshen up our OpenVMS J offerings, with revisions and new titles, so all interest is most welcome.     Pam    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 14:14:59 -0500 ) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net>  Subject: Re: FTP RMS error7 Message-ID: <11fc01bfcbfd$af7a8570$020a0a0a@xile.realm>   8 Hipenbecker, Doug <Hipenbecker.Doug@MBCO.COMpany> wrote:= > Does anybody have a quick fix to get around this FTP error?  > / > %FTP-E-OUTPROCF, Error processing output file : > DISK$RAID8:[DB14.UDBTOOLS.20000531_1702]IADESCDB2Z.IXF;1 > ; > -RMS-W-RTB, 36496 byte record too large for user's buffer    ftp>type image   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 22:13:50 -0500 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> ' Subject: Re: General discussion comment - Message-ID: <3937266E.9A5CCF26@earthlink.net>    Rob Young wrote:E >         Ouch.. so it takes 20 Orbs to make 1 DLT IV?  How does that  >         make me excited?    H I take it down time for BACKUP ("BACKUP window") is not an issue at your site?   , >  BTW, DLT IVs can be had for less than $90D >         dollars (I actually got 100 of them for less than $80 onceF >         and the guy let me know I was getting them near his cost, he* >         didn't reveal his cost however).  E Sad news: I saw a proposal today for DLT-IV $70/ea, qty. 50. Sorry to  spoil your day.    9 > > Know any sites that COULDN'T use something like that?  > E >         Yeah, me.  I backup many Gigabytes per night, would take me ! >         15-20 Orbs per night...   = O.k. So, you split/reconstitute 15-20 mirror-sets each night.    Where's the problem?   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems " http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:+ http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 03:44:38 GMT 2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>' Subject: Re: General discussion comment 4 Message-ID: <G4GZ4.91$ru5.11583@typhoon.aracnet.com>  6 David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote:- >>  BTW, DLT IVs can be had for less than $90 E >>         dollars (I actually got 100 of them for less than $80 once G >>         and the guy let me know I was getting them near his cost, he + >>         didn't reveal his cost however).   G > Sad news: I saw a proposal today for DLT-IV $70/ea, qty. 50. Sorry to  > spoil your day.   K All depends on how many you buy and how often.  I believe we're paying even M less than that these days, but then we also go through well over 100 a week!  B Worse, that's not counting the number of tapes we reuse each week.   				Zane   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 03:58:34 GMT  From: walkerp1@my-deja.com0 Subject: Getting SRP Count and Usage from System) Message-ID: <8h7bd7$un7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   F Using VMS 5.5-2, I can issue a $SHOW MEMORY/POOL and see my SRP stats,E including Total, Free, and used.  I would like to access these values G from within a program without using DCL.  I've looked at SGN$GL_SRPCNT, G etc., but these addresses do not seem to yield the same values provided ? by the DCL show memory display.  I stepped through the SHOW.EXE A disassembly in debug, but it jumps to some shared code to get the  values and I cannot follow.   @ Does anyone know of the system symbols associated with the $SHOWC MEMORY/POOL for SRP's or have the source listings that show how the  values are gathered/calculated?    Paul    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 17:58:03 -0700 3 From: Jojimbo <jgesslingNOjgSPAM@yahoo.com.invalid> / Subject: Guide to AST and reentrant programming 9 Message-ID: <01e1f99b.eb800494@usw-ex0102-084.remarq.com>   
 Greetings,  8 Hey, I've been around forever but never had to do such a8 totally async, ast driven, with event flags program as I: now am working on, including decnet (non-transparent) task> to task communication.  I'm studying some great examples, like< sys$examples:alpha_logger.c and drlogin from decus.  (thanks; all)  What I really am missing is an overview of principles > of this type of programming.  Any suggestions for resources in' this area would be greatly appreciated.    Jim   L * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *G The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 20:30:16 GMT  From: hanghien@my-deja.com6 Subject: How can I get rid of a process in RWMPB state) Message-ID: <8h6h4o$edv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   G My VS 3100 is running OpenVMS 7.1 and a process somehow ended up in the G RWMPB state. I couldn't kill it and a system reboot would bring it back  again.( Does anybody know how to get rid of it ?   Thanks,  John    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 23:50:19 GMT / From: "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net> : Subject: Re: How can I get rid of a process in RWMPB stateG Message-ID: <%ECZ4.10451$Zm5.688079@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>   @ The first thing to look at is the pagefile.    $SHOW MEMORY/FILEK Don't worry about the "reservable", but if the number of free pages is low,  you need to increase the size.I As a temporary measure, you can use sysgen to create a secondary file and  install it.   G Additionally, after you have run the system for at least 24 hours under % normal load, you probably need to run H autogen.  If you are not familiar with system tuning, you need to either$ read the manual, or get system admin
 type help.  K <hanghien@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8h6h4o$edv$1@nnrp1.deja.com... I > My VS 3100 is running OpenVMS 7.1 and a process somehow ended up in the I > RWMPB state. I couldn't kill it and a system reboot would bring it back  > again.* > Does anybody know how to get rid of it ? > 	 > Thanks,  > John >  > ( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 21:07:31 -0500 ) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> : Subject: Re: How can I get rid of a process in RWMPB state7 Message-ID: <128801bfcc37$510dcdf0$020a0a0a@xile.realm>   & John <hanghien@my-deja.company> wrote:  I > My VS 3100 is running OpenVMS 7.1 and a process somehow ended up in the I > RWMPB state. I couldn't kill it and a system reboot would bring it back  > again.* > Does anybody know how to get rid of it ?  7 RWMPB means that it is waiting to write to a PAGE FILE.   C A. You do not have a big enough pagefiles.  Make them bigger or add  additional pagefiles.   I B. Some how your page file is corrupt.  Rename, reboot minium, delete and J recreate, then boot normal.  Of course in the event you have enough space, you can skip the second reboot.    -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 15:38:23 -0500 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>+ Subject: OT: Books (was: Amazon jumps ship) - Message-ID: <0033000023376173000002L032*@MHS>   < =0AIn article <FvGFr6.MM4@world.std.com>, "Terry C. Shannon"! <shannon@world.std.com> writes: > 3 > "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@Killeen.cc> wrote in message ! > news:3935c8d3@news.toast.net...  >>H > cbs.marketwatch.com/archive/20000531/news/current/amzn.htx?source=3Dh=	 tx/http2_  >> mw  >> > C > Hmmm... there's always www.barnesandnoble.com and www.borders.com  > H > Actually, I have found that Amazon frequently does not have the best = prices, : > at least according to the deal broker at www.ichoose.com > H > And I always go for the best price, even though I'm an Amazon Affilia= te, > through the SKC page on the Acersoft site. >   ;      The best way (IMHO) to buy books is to go to Yahoo and D      search books and find the cheapest one that comes up.  I boughtF      from alldirect.com and can't even remember the last outfit I usedB      and their service was good.  One other tip, use UPS .. it gotC      there in 3 days last time.  Actually cheaper to buy it and pay B      $3.50 for shipping then go to Borders and get it.  Still neatB      to wander through a book store and find good books to go back      to Yahoo for. . .                       Rob   F      I was in a bookstore recently and saw a display of books entitled      "The Handbook of Zen."   E      I immediately wondered whether there was anything written on the ?      pages, but realized just as quicly that it would have been =      *most* unZenlike to open one of the books to find out...         WWWebb=   ------------------------------  " Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 22:22:38 GMT* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)/ Subject: Re: OT: Books (was: Amazon jumps ship) + Message-ID: <viSEVl4sLI7l@eisner.decus.org>   Z In article <0033000023376173000002L032*@MHS>, WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> writes:   > = >      The best way (IMHO) to buy books is to go to Yahoo and F >      search books and find the cheapest one that comes up.  I boughtH >      from alldirect.com and can't even remember the last outfit I usedD >      and their service was good.  One other tip, use UPS .. it gotE >      there in 3 days last time.  Actually cheaper to buy it and pay D >      $3.50 for shipping then go to Borders and get it.  Still neatD >      to wander through a book store and find good books to go back >      to Yahoo for. . . >  >                     Rob  > H >      I was in a bookstore recently and saw a display of books entitled >      "The Handbook of Zen."  > G >      I immediately wondered whether there was anything written on the A >      pages, but realized just as quicly that it would have been ? >      *most* unZenlike to open one of the books to find out...  >   A 	To squelch my conscience I normally buy Red Herring and Business F 	Week to offset the usage of their facilities :-).  Besides, magazinesF 	are dated material and often don't ship well (ComputerWorld sometimes? 	shows up as if it was tossed through the air about 50 feet and 3 	then used as a surfboard across a concrete floor).    				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 16:48:04 -0400 " From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org>/ Subject: Re: OT: Books (was: Amazon jumps ship) 8 Message-ID: <4.3.1.0.20000601164730.00eb3640@24.8.96.48>  * At 10:22 PM 6/1/00 +0000, Rob Young wrote:" >         (ComputerWorld sometimesH >         shows up as if it was tossed through the air about 50 feet and< >         then used as a surfboard across a concrete floor).  9 Yeah, but this would make it less useful how, exactly? :)    					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"------------------- 2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and even ;                                       teddy bears get drunk    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 16:57:04 -0700 / From: Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com> # Subject: set entry /after = "17:00" M Message-ID: <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213019AEE61@seantexch.unitedad.com>   
 Hello All,  "              I have a job on hold:  4   Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Status4   -----  -------         --------     ------  ------5     373  X               TERRY                Holding "          On idle batch queue TERRYA          Submitted  1-JUN-2000 16:35:55.15 /KEEP /NOTIFY /NOPRINT 
 /PRIORITY=100 +          File: _$1$DUA12:[DEV.TERRY]X.X;477     L I want to release the job to run after 17:00 today. Every thing I try starts it running now? ( Can someone give me the correct command  Thanks   Terry     5 *****************************************************     5 ***************************************************** 4 Any views or opinions are solely those of the author) and do not necessarily represent those of  United News& Media. 5 ***************************************************** 4 The information transmitted is intended only for the1 person or entity to which it is addressed and may 3 contain confidential and/or privileged material. If 3 you are not the intended recipient of this message, . please do not read, copy, use or disclose this3 communication and notify the sender immediately. It 0 should be noted that any review, retransmission,2 dissemination or other use of, or taking action in- reliance upon, this information by persons or - entities other than the intended recipient is  prohibited. 5 *****************************************************  **   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 17:14:35 -0700 / From: Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com> ' Subject: RE: set entry /after = "17:00" M Message-ID: <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213019AEE63@seantexch.unitedad.com>    Got It never Mind !!!! Terry    -----Original Message-----6 From: Terry Marosites [mailto:TMarosites@UNITEDAD.COM]% Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 4:57 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com # Subject: set entry /after = "17:00"     
 Hello All,  "              I have a job on hold:  4   Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Status4   -----  -------         --------     ------  ------5     373  X               TERRY                Holding "          On idle batch queue TERRYA          Submitted  1-JUN-2000 16:35:55.15 /KEEP /NOTIFY /NOPRINT 
 /PRIORITY=100 +          File: _$1$DUA12:[DEV.TERRY]X.X;477     L I want to release the job to run after 17:00 today. Every thing I try starts it running now? ' Can someone give me the correct command  Thanks Terry     5 *****************************************************     5 ***************************************************** 4 Any views or opinions are solely those of the author) and do not necessarily represent those of  United News& Media. 5 ***************************************************** 4 The information transmitted is intended only for the1 person or entity to which it is addressed and may 3 contain confidential and/or privileged material. If 3 you are not the intended recipient of this message, . please do not read, copy, use or disclose this3 communication and notify the sender immediately. It 0 should be noted that any review, retransmission,2 dissemination or other use of, or taking action in- reliance upon, this information by persons or - entities other than the intended recipient is  prohibited. 5 *****************************************************  **   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 20:35:53 -0400 , From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>' Subject: Re: set entry /after = "17:00" > Message-ID: <hshubs-4509E8.20355301062000@news.mindspring.com>   In article  C <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213019AEE61@seantexch.unitedad.com>,  0 Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com> wrote:  5 >  Entry  Jobname         Username     Blocks  Status 5 >  -----  -------         --------     ------  ------ 6 >    373  X               TERRY                Holding# >         On idle batch queue TERRY B >         Submitted  1-JUN-2000 16:35:55.15 /KEEP /NOTIFY /NOPRINT >/PRIORITY=100, >         File: _$1$DUA12:[DEV.TERRY]X.X;477 >  > G >I want to release the job to run after 17:00 today. Every thing I try     You're saying you tried    $ SET ENTRY/AFTER=17:00 373   I ?  I'm assuming you are user TERRY or that you have appropriate privs to   modify this job.   Have you tried  # $ SET ENTRY/AFTER="TODAY+17:00" 373    ?    --   Howard S Shubs, the Denim Adept    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 20:36:27 -0400 , From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>' Subject: Re: set entry /after = "17:00" > Message-ID: <hshubs-4D234C.20362701062000@news.mindspring.com>   In article  C <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213019AEE63@seantexch.unitedad.com>,  0 Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com> wrote:   >Got It never Mind !!!!    Too late.  What worked?    --   Howard S Shubs, the Denim Adept    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 17:02:26 -0400 # From: Tom Brand <Tom.Brand@bmc.org> # Subject: SUMMARY: What is KZPBA-CY? 3 Message-ID: <p04310103b55c7e6fc9d1@[155.41.25.110]>   
 Thanks all...       From Mark D. Jilson:   F >It is the field replaceable unit for the SCSI controller KSPBA-CB but& >doesn't include the firmware or docs.    From Terry Kennedy:I >   The KZPBA family are re-badged QLogic QLA104x SCSI controllers, but I I >only know of the -CA and -CB variants. KSPBA (from your subject) isn't a  >valid part number.  > K >   Take a look at http://www.qlogic.com/products/pdf/guides/ultra_scsi.pdf ' >for the QLogic manual for these cards.     From Carl Karcher: D >  A KZPBA-CY is a "PCI to UltraSCSI Differential Module" and is theI >hardware part number contained in the KZPBA-CB option "kit". Other parts A >of the kit include release notes, user guide,  firmware CD, etc.      >Tom Brand wrote:  >>? >>  I've got a PCI I/O adapter, box is labeled as a 'KZPBA-CY'.  >>H >>  Can anyone identify this thing?  I can't find it on Compaq site, nor( >>  in the old System & Options catalog. >> >  > Thanks  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 22:27:09 GMT 2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?3 Message-ID: <1rBZ4.84$ru5.7518@typhoon.aracnet.com>   - Wyer, Brett <brett.wyer@telecheck.com> wrote: K > honestly, I'm surprised they chose the Q-Bus platform.  That creates some L > significant complications that would have been easy to avoid if they would> > have chosen a busless platform like the 3100 or 4000 series.  J It's not obvious unless you download the Manual, but they're emulating theJ 3100 series as well.  If you're curious about this product you really needK to download the Manual as the web page is seriously lacking in information.    			Zane    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 22:06:31 -0500 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>  Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?- Message-ID: <393724B7.CF8940A2@earthlink.net>    "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > D > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message) > news:3935CC08.3A8E9ED8@earthlink.net...  > > Jeff Killeen wrote:  > > >   > > > http://www.charon-vax.com/ > > E > > Looks like someone ELSE sees the value/potential of VMS on Intel.  > >  > K > Yes indeed. There are few things as cool as watching OpenVMS boot up on a 
 > Windoze PC!  > M > Granted, Charon-VAX is just an emulator, but it's a great piece of work and ' > the perpetrators are to be commended.  > M > I just got a copy of the software; will provide a review in SKC Pretty Soon I > Now. In the interim, check the product out at the above-referenced URL.   6 I got a code for the download. Will try real soon now.  G If my "Affordable OpenVMS BOF" gets accepted for CETS-2000, and if Rich A Marcello can be there, how 'bout we demo it for him at that time? @ (Remember to have it on a Compaq PC so no one bitches about it.)   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems " http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:+ http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 22:03:28 +02003 From: "Amir E. Aharoni" <amir_e_a@netvision.net.il>  Subject: VEST / DECmigrate0 Message-ID: <8h6buc$icn$1@news.netvision.net.il>   Hello   ? Is anyone here familiar with the VEST a.k.a DECmigrate utility? J It claims to convert VAX/VMS EXE images to ones that can run on Alpha VMS.  F Is anyone here familiar with any success stories involving this thing?+ ___________________________________________ + Amir Elisha Aharoni, the original Israelite * "Bartender! Put all my meals in one plate.' Don't ask me what kind of music I play. $ I play the good kind." - Oliver Lake   ------------------------------  " Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 22:40:29 GMT9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: VEST / DECmigrate+ Message-ID: <9KwCN6$Rozpe@eisner.decus.org>   f In article <8h6buc$icn$1@news.netvision.net.il>, "Amir E. Aharoni" <amir_e_a@netvision.net.il> writes: > Hello  > A > Is anyone here familiar with the VEST a.k.a DECmigrate utility? L > It claims to convert VAX/VMS EXE images to ones that can run on Alpha VMS. > H > Is anyone here familiar with any success stories involving this thing?  " That is how Alpha TECO is created.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 23:53:17 GMT / From: "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net>  Subject: Re: VEST / DECmigrateG Message-ID: <NHCZ4.10459$Zm5.687583@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>   I Vest was a tool to help early adopters of Alpha VMS move images from VAX.  It< only works on VAX images created under VMS 5.5-2 or earlier.  K We did have some success using it, but it seems that a lot of vested images   break at  Alpha VMS 7.2 and need to be recompiled natively.> "Amir E. Aharoni" <amir_e_a@netvision.net.il> wrote in message* news:8h6buc$icn$1@news.netvision.net.il... > Hello  > A > Is anyone here familiar with the VEST a.k.a DECmigrate utility? L > It claims to convert VAX/VMS EXE images to ones that can run on Alpha VMS. > H > Is anyone here familiar with any success stories involving this thing?- > ___________________________________________ - > Amir Elisha Aharoni, the original Israelite , > "Bartender! Put all my meals in one plate.) > Don't ask me what kind of music I play. & > I play the good kind." - Oliver Lake >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 14:07:40 +1000 4 From: Huw Davies <Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au> Subject: Re: VEST / DECmigrateD Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000602140349.01d074b0@kerberos.davies.net.au>  2 At 10:03 PM 01-06-00 +0200, Amir E. Aharoni wrote: >Hello > @ >Is anyone here familiar with the VEST a.k.a DECmigrate utility?K >It claims to convert VAX/VMS EXE images to ones that can run on Alpha VMS.  > G >Is anyone here familiar with any success stories involving this thing?   H Well I know when I setup my first mixed architecture VMScluster in 1992 L (date may be out by a year or so, but it was just after Alphas were shipped D to customers) as part of the migration I temporarily VESTed all the I executables we had in SYSPUB: (our system utilities area). This included  G things like Kermit, Zip etc. I'd always planned to go back an find the   sources, recompile, etc.  L I know that when the system was decommissioned last year, the VESTed images E were still there and no one had ever noticed the lack of performance.   H I do know that there were some problems VESTing some other more complex K applications, including getting 10BACKUP running, but I'll leave it to the  & person who got it going to comment....  @ Huw Davies           | e-mail: Huw.Davies@kerberos.davies.net.au?                       | "If God had wanted soccer played in the =                       | air, the sky would be painted green"     ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 22:31:46 GMT 2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> Subject: Re: VMS Documentation. 3 Message-ID: <mvBZ4.85$ru5.7518@typhoon.aracnet.com>   9 Dean Richard Benson <dean.benson@remove_metrw.com> wrote: B > So my question is - does anyone know where I can get the printed, > VMS documentation from for say - VMS 6.2 -  I Well, you can get the V7.2 set from Compaq.  Despite having a pretty good J set of V6.x doc's at the time, and only being a hobbyist I bought the V7.2P Basic Doc set, it's a very good value (~$20 a manual).  Once V7.3 comes out I'm J actually considering buying the complete set, as I'm starting to want the N programming manuals that aren't in the Basic Doc set.  What can I say, I like + real documentation that I can take with me.    				Zane   ------------------------------  " Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 20:06:36 GMT* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)< Subject: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever)+ Message-ID: <xxAEDAo7t0W0@eisner.decus.org>   a In article <8h3bc6$2gl@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes: Z > In article <aTT5NM+KjsR7@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes:  c >>In article <8h0n8i$d7t@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes: V >>> In article <8gs3ga$jbg$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes: >>>>K >>>>And of course that last dovetails neatly with your own observation that N >>>>people seldom bother with much performance optimization:  for such typicalO >>>>non-performance-optimized applications, Unix therefore makes more efficient K >>>>use of the hardware than VMS does, hence is correctly perceived as more  >>>>cost-effective.  >>> I >>> Exactly.  And it all boils down to (essentially) a SINGLE difference  N >>> between the OS's.   On a typical lightly loaded, memory rich, workstation,D >>> Linux (and probably most other Unices, but I can't say for sure)E >>> automatically utilize the unused portions of memory to cache file  >>> operations.    >  > <SNIP> >  >>/ >>	So things aren't moving fast enough for you?  >>A >>	Caching gets much improved in the next go round of VMS (unless F >>	I've mixed up roadmaps or am misremembering).  How did this happen?F >>	Senior engineer at a DECUS explained that: "remember, VIOC was justC >>	a stop-gap measure... it wasn't supposed to be around this long" C >>	or something similar.  Relase notes showed new sysgen parameters G >>	for write behind caching and write delay.  Something to look forward F >>	to.  So how did this happen?  Fork in the road called Spiralog from >>	what I understand.  >> > I > I'm not counting any of those chickens before they hatch.  Remember the @ > buildup for Spiralog, and how many of us ended up using that?   & 	It's on this PPT Roadmap on slide 18:   	"Extended File Cache V 1.0   * 		- Read ahead caching on sequential files# 		- Greater than 100 files in cache  		- Larger cache size"  ? 	With a 2001 timeframe.  That was the Feb Roadmap.  If you look 4 	at the one found there today, they also have added:   "	Extended File Cache V 2.0    		- Write sharing in a cluster 		- Write behind caching 		- User Controls  		- SMP Performance boost ! 		- Galactic Common Memory usage"   ? 	All part of the base OS.  Spiralog was a bolt-on.  Yes it went = 	away and a few may have been saddened.  But your point about ? 	the caching isn't a good one... it isn't "just a build up" and < 	even a jaded reading of the roadmaps would indicate it must; 	be something they are working on with XFC V 1.0 slated for  	VMS version 7.3.    > I > The point I'm trying to make is that virtually all of the difference in I > performance one sees between Unix and OpenVMS is due to the presence of F > file caching on the former and its absence on the latter.  This is a> > problem which is easily identified and SHOULD BE RECTIFIED.   + 	Well no kidding!  Let's backup a tiny bit:    >>/ >>	So things aren't moving fast enough for you?  >>  < 	Maybe not for others either.  But we could wish in one hand> 	and spit in the other hand and we would have the same results 	concerning this.  No change.     (Really it J > should have been addressed many years ago but that's another harangue.) H > Right now, as others have said, the only Compaq supplied product whichG > could improve the situation is an HSZ or some other dedicated storage 4 > controller - but who can afford those for a DS10?  >   : 	So?  Run Linux on it then.  Better caching isn't going to. 	show up faster just because we wish it would.  M > Nor am I saying that OpenVMS file caching need be exactly like that on Unix J > - it just needs to give most of the benefits, and do so without the needJ > for case by case RMS twiddling.  Clearly it must preserve the capabilityL > for doing all of the things RMS does now, which really are appropriate andI > useful on heavily loaded systems where there is no extra RAM around for  > file caching.  >   : 	Exactly like?  How about better when it gets here.  Think% 	about the last line for a bit there:     		- Galactic Common Memory usage    	Tell me what that means to you.  C >>	So maybe in a year or less, we put the limited caching behind us H >>	for those that are at 7.3 and higher and maybe move on to complaining> >>	that VMS is so primitive because a lot still has to be doneF >>	at a command line.  How primitive.  MS-DOS is dead... I want things& >>	to look and feel just like Windows. >> > K > Oh come on.  It's perfectly fair to point out that on small systems under I > typical loads for such systems the file caching mechanisms used by Unix G > (and WNT) do result in real increases in system performance, and it's I > equally fair to point out that many pieces of software ported from Unix M > implicitly assume this behavior and so run less efficiently on OpenVMS than M > they do on Unix.  This thread has nothing to do with GUIs vs. command line, H > it's about the real 2X to 3X performance boost that you get with file 
 > caching. >   A 	No kidding.  My point was plainly stated in the very first line:    >>/ >>	So things aren't moving fast enough for you?  >>  ; 	It isn't as if they are sitting around up there over a cup ? 	of coffee in an a.m. meeting *last week* and a hand went up in  	the back of the room:  < 		"Hey, I gotta an idea.  Howsa 'bout we fix up our caching.; 		seems we should be able to do better than a hundred files ; 		at a time and maybe do like some of the Unix boxes I have ' 		heard about that has better caching."   & 	It's a work in progress.  Get it?????  < 	Is there anything else we can moan about?  I really need to 	get practiced up...   				Rob    ------------------------------  " Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 20:18:55 GMT* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)@ Subject: Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever)+ Message-ID: <QFGdSS+vIiqJ@eisner.decus.org>   X In article <xxAEDAo7t0W0@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes:   > ( > 	It's on this PPT Roadmap on slide 18: >  	Which roadmap?  This roadmap:  C http://WWW.OPENVMS.DIGITAL.COM/openvms/roadmap/openvms_roadmaps.htm    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 16:32:30 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> @ Subject: Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever)( Message-ID: <8h6h2o$c4h$1@pyrite.mv.net>  5 Rob Young <young_r@eisner.decus.org> wrote in message % news:xxAEDAo7t0W0@eisner.decus.org... L > In article <8h3bc6$2gl@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:   ...   K > > I'm not counting any of those chickens before they hatch.  Remember the A > > buildup for Spiralog, and how many of us ended up using that?  > ' > It's on this PPT Roadmap on slide 18:  >  > "Extended File Cache V 1.0 > * > - Read ahead caching on sequential files# > - Greater than 100 files in cache  > - Larger cache size" > @ > With a 2001 timeframe.  That was the Feb Roadmap.  If you look5 > at the one found there today, they also have added:  >  > " Extended File Cache V 2.0  >  > - Write sharing in a cluster > - Write behind caching > - User Controls  > - SMP Performance boost ! > - Galactic Common Memory usage"  > @ > All part of the base OS.  Spiralog was a bolt-on.  Yes it went> > away and a few may have been saddened.  But your point about< > the caching isn't a good one... it isn't "just a build up"  K I'd be curious to know why you believe that in some way Spiralog was not as @ seriously-integrated an effort as the EFC work is:  I would haveH characterized Spiralog as both considerably more ambitious and requiring( considerably more extensive integration.  E So while we can certainly hope that the EFC work turns out to be more 9 worthwhile, I don't see David's comment as inappropriate.    ...   J > > Nor am I saying that OpenVMS file caching need be exactly like that on UnixL > > - it just needs to give most of the benefits, and do so without the needL > > for case by case RMS twiddling.  Clearly it must preserve the capabilityJ > > for doing all of the things RMS does now, which really are appropriate and K > > useful on heavily loaded systems where there is no extra RAM around for  > > file caching.  > >  > ; > Exactly like?  How about better when it gets here.  Think & > about the last line for a bit there: >   > - Galactic Common Memory usage > ! > Tell me what that means to you.   G Not much, save in those atypical (though not truly rare) cases in which J multiple nodes are sharing the same data, in which it primarily makes moreL efficient use of total box memory than a (good) distributed cache where thatE shared data would instead be replicated on a per-partition basis.  Of = course, you pay the price of 3x slower access (and additional E inter-partition synchronization overhead) on *all* references to such L centrally-cached data, whether the data in which you're interested is shared or not.   L While the listed EFC work should certainly be a general improvement over theE current performance state w.r.t. this particular limitation, the real B question for most users will be whether it does as good a job in aG single-system environment as a Unix-style cache does - and for that, as L David says, we'll just have to wait and see, or at the very least wait until design details are released.   > E > >> So maybe in a year or less, we put the limited caching behind us ) > >> for those that are at 7.3 and higher   L Not unless the EFC V2 release follows so quickly on the heels of EFC V1 thatK it makes it into 7.3:  write-back caching isn't listed for V1, and that's a I *big* part of the difference (especially in current VMS environments that 4 have configured below-file-system-level read cache).   ...   = > Is there anything else we can moan about?  I really need to  > get practiced up...   K My suspicion is that at least a portion of David's annoyance stems from the G knee-jerk reactions to the effect that "VMS don't need no stinkin' Unix J features!  It's better by definition, and that's all there is to it!" whenL he presumed to suggest that Unix had performance advantages in certain areasH that VMS might do well to consider.  Poring over Compaq OpenVMS Web siteJ material is not a pre-requisite for participation in comp.os.vms, the lackE of any mention of the road map information until now (when he started I talking about this issue months ago) is sufficient indication that it was L not exactly foremost in the minds of other people either, and even if he hadJ been aware of it not only are the details insufficient to indicate whetherL it will be comparable to the Unix facilities but he should not be blamed forJ wondering, on the basis of past future plans for VMS enhancements, whetherL it would appear on time (one who should know has suggested to me that it may9 originally have been slated for 7.2) and in full regalia.    - bill   >  > Rob  >    ------------------------------  " Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 22:53:51 GMT* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)@ Subject: Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever)+ Message-ID: <ty6ArUaZ3tsO@eisner.decus.org>   R In article <8h6h2o$c4h$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes: > 7 > Rob Young <young_r@eisner.decus.org> wrote in message ' > news:xxAEDAo7t0W0@eisner.decus.org... M >> In article <8h3bc6$2gl@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu  > (David Mathog) writes: >  > ...  > L >> > I'm not counting any of those chickens before they hatch.  Remember theB >> > buildup for Spiralog, and how many of us ended up using that? >>( >> It's on this PPT Roadmap on slide 18: >> >> "Extended File Cache V 1.0  >>+ >> - Read ahead caching on sequential files $ >> - Greater than 100 files in cache >> - Larger cache size"  >>A >> With a 2001 timeframe.  That was the Feb Roadmap.  If you look 6 >> at the one found there today, they also have added: >> >> " Extended File Cache V 2.0 >> >> - Write sharing in a cluster  >> - Write behind caching  >> - User Controls >> - SMP Performance boost" >> - Galactic Common Memory usage" >>A >> All part of the base OS.  Spiralog was a bolt-on.  Yes it went ? >> away and a few may have been saddened.  But your point about = >> the caching isn't a good one... it isn't "just a build up"  > M > I'd be curious to know why you believe that in some way Spiralog was not as B > seriously-integrated an effort as the EFC work is:  I would haveJ > characterized Spiralog as both considerably more ambitious and requiring* > considerably more extensive integration. >   < 	Oh it was a serious effort and perhaps we are parsing terms? 	incorrectly again.  XFC I imagine will be turned on by default C 	with some minimum settings (maybe, maybe not).  Easy to understand C 	and whatnot.  After all, AIX (Unix I am most familiar with) caches < 	files in available memory... no setup necessary.  I am sure0 	something similar will be the default with XFC.  C 	Spiralog required a deliberate effort to setup, wasn't the default @ 	and once something was a Spiralog volume requires work to undo.  G > So while we can certainly hope that the EFC work turns out to be more ; > worthwhile, I don't see David's comment as inappropriate.  >   > 	What do you mean, specifically?  i.e. cite an example of what= 	he said that you don't disagree with and I will let you know 8 	if I don't disagree with it either.  After all, much of> 	my comments to his comment began with:  "No Kidding" followed 	by a counter-point.   > ...  > K >> > Nor am I saying that OpenVMS file caching need be exactly like that on  > UnixM >> > - it just needs to give most of the benefits, and do so without the need M >> > for case by case RMS twiddling.  Clearly it must preserve the capability K >> > for doing all of the things RMS does now, which really are appropriate  > and L >> > useful on heavily loaded systems where there is no extra RAM around for >> > file caching. >> > >>< >> Exactly like?  How about better when it gets here.  Think' >> about the last line for a bit there:  >>! >> - Galactic Common Memory usage  >>" >> Tell me what that means to you. > I > Not much, save in those atypical (though not truly rare) cases in which L > multiple nodes are sharing the same data, in which it primarily makes moreN > efficient use of total box memory than a (good) distributed cache where thatG > shared data would instead be replicated on a per-partition basis.  Of ? > course, you pay the price of 3x slower access (and additional G > inter-partition synchronization overhead) on *all* references to such N > centrally-cached data, whether the data in which you're interested is shared	 > or not.  > N > While the listed EFC work should certainly be a general improvement over theG > current performance state w.r.t. this particular limitation, the real D > question for most users will be whether it does as good a job in aI > single-system environment as a Unix-style cache does - and for that, as N > David says, we'll just have to wait and see, or at the very least wait until > design details are released. >   < 	single system?  That's easy.  But what about a 16 processor> 	system that would in normal Unix world be a single system but= 	does better as 2 VMS systems (separate VMS instances sharing  	resources)?     >>F >> >> So maybe in a year or less, we put the limited caching behind us* >> >> for those that are at 7.3 and higher > N > Not unless the EFC V2 release follows so quickly on the heels of EFC V1 thatM > it makes it into 7.3:  write-back caching isn't listed for V1, and that's a K > *big* part of the difference (especially in current VMS environments that 6 > have configured below-file-system-level read cache). >   6 	It's there on a roadmap.  I didn't applaud timelines.   > ...  > > >> Is there anything else we can moan about?  I really need to >> get practiced up... > M > My suspicion is that at least a portion of David's annoyance stems from the I > knee-jerk reactions to the effect that "VMS don't need no stinkin' Unix L > features!  It's better by definition, and that's all there is to it!" whenN > he presumed to suggest that Unix had performance advantages in certain areasJ > that VMS might do well to consider.  Poring over Compaq OpenVMS Web siteL > material is not a pre-requisite for participation in comp.os.vms, the lackG > of any mention of the road map information until now (when he started K > talking about this issue months ago) is sufficient indication that it was N > not exactly foremost in the minds of other people either, and even if he hadL > been aware of it not only are the details insufficient to indicate whetherN > it will be comparable to the Unix facilities but he should not be blamed forL > wondering, on the basis of past future plans for VMS enhancements, whetherN > it would appear on time (one who should know has suggested to me that it may; > originally have been slated for 7.2) and in full regalia.  >   	 	Well...     	Specifically:    "VMS don't need no stinkin' UnixF features!  It's better by definition, and that's all there is to it!"   = 	That would be a mis-charecterization of my criticisms of his 9 	comments.  Sticking back in what you trimmed which would = 	of course show I am not of that ilk is seen in this section:    ---   K > Oh come on.  It's perfectly fair to point out that on small systems under I > typical loads for such systems the file caching mechanisms used by Unix G > (and WNT) do result in real increases in system performance, and it's I > equally fair to point out that many pieces of software ported from Unix M > implicitly assume this behavior and so run less efficiently on OpenVMS than M > they do on Unix.  This thread has nothing to do with GUIs vs. command line, G > it's about the real 2X to 3X performance boost that you get with file 
 > caching. >                H         No kidding.  My point was plainly stated in the very first line:   >>      6 >>      So things aren't moving fast enough for you?   >>        B         It isn't as if they are sitting around up there over a cupK         of coffee in an a.m. meeting *last week* and a hand went up in      !         the back of the room:       J                 "Hey, I gotta an idea.  Howsa 'bout we fix up our caching.M                 seems we should be able to do better than a hundred files     M                 at a time and maybe do like some of the Unix boxes I have     6                 heard about that has better caching."   -         It's a work in progress.  Get it?????    --  5 	Throwing interpretation on that to make sure I'm not $ 	misunderstood, I mean that to mean:  9 	"VMS caching is lacking.. I am sure that VMS engineering 2 	is well aware of how others do caching.  Roadmaps1 	show that caching development is well underway."    >>              4 >>      So things aren't moving fast enough for you? >>    8 	Maybe they aren't moving fast enough for others either.@ 	Me?  I've got all the write-back caching I need in controllers.  	But others aren't as fortuante.   				Rob    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 18:05:26 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> @ Subject: Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever)( Message-ID: <8h6mh0$p3e$1@pyrite.mv.net>  5 Rob Young <young_r@eisner.decus.org> wrote in message % news:ty6ArUaZ3tsO@eisner.decus.org... L > In article <8h6h2o$c4h$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes:  > > 9 > > Rob Young <young_r@eisner.decus.org> wrote in message ) > > news:xxAEDAo7t0W0@eisner.decus.org... 1 > >> In article <8h3bc6$2gl@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,  mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu  > > (David Mathog) writes: > >  > > ...  > > J > >> > I'm not counting any of those chickens before they hatch.  Remember the D > >> > buildup for Spiralog, and how many of us ended up using that?   ...   C > >> All part of the base OS.  Spiralog was a bolt-on.  Yes it went A > >> away and a few may have been saddened.  But your point about ? > >> the caching isn't a good one... it isn't "just a build up"    ...   I > > So while we can certainly hope that the EFC work turns out to be more = > > worthwhile, I don't see David's comment as inappropriate.  > >  > ? > What do you mean, specifically?  i.e. cite an example of what > > he said that you don't disagree with and I will let you know% > if I don't disagree with it either.   L Since I had included only a single comment from David (above), I thought theL reference was clear.  And you had already disagreed with it (see above for aH small portion).  And that's what I took exception to, and still do:  the& parallel he drew was a reasonable one.   ...   = > single system?  That's easy.  But what about a 16 processor ? > system that would in normal Unix world be a single system but > > does better as 2 VMS systems (separate VMS instances sharing
 > resources)?   I The point is that a good distributed cache implementation that would work L well across non-Galaxy clusters as well as Galaxy clusters makes the abilityI to use shared memory for cache within a Galaxy cluster largely irrelevant L (it could help in very heavy cross-partition sharing situations, but there'sJ a continual price to be paid in the far more common case where data is notG heavily shared).  Since I've explained this elsewhere at length without 3 apparent effect, I'm not going to do so again here.   E Tru64 apparently now supports a distributed cache comparable to VMS's J current implementation, and this is the direction they will likely head inE lacking Galaxy-style 'soft' partitioning:  it's as applicable to Unix  clusters as to VMS clusters.   >  > >>H > >> >> So maybe in a year or less, we put the limited caching behind us, > >> >> for those that are at 7.3 and higher > > K > > Not unless the EFC V2 release follows so quickly on the heels of EFC V1  thatF > > it makes it into 7.3:  write-back caching isn't listed for V1, and that's aH > > *big* part of the difference (especially in current VMS environments that8 > > have configured below-file-system-level read cache). > >  > 7 > It's there on a roadmap.  I didn't applaud timelines.   H No, but you specifically suggested that the limited caching issues wouldB disappear with 7.3, which to all appearances will not be the case.   >  > > ...  > > @ > >> Is there anything else we can moan about?  I really need to > >> get practiced up... > > K > > My suspicion is that at least a portion of David's annoyance stems from  the K > > knee-jerk reactions to the effect that "VMS don't need no stinkin' Unix I > > features!  It's better by definition, and that's all there is to it!"  whenJ > > he presumed to suggest that Unix had performance advantages in certain areas L > > that VMS might do well to consider.  Poring over Compaq OpenVMS Web siteI > > material is not a pre-requisite for participation in comp.os.vms, the  lackI > > of any mention of the road map information until now (when he started I > > talking about this issue months ago) is sufficient indication that it  was L > > not exactly foremost in the minds of other people either, and even if he had F > > been aware of it not only are the details insufficient to indicate whether L > > it will be comparable to the Unix facilities but he should not be blamed for F > > wondering, on the basis of past future plans for VMS enhancements, whether L > > it would appear on time (one who should know has suggested to me that it may = > > originally have been slated for 7.2) and in full regalia.  > >  > 	 > Well...  >  > Specifically:  > " > "VMS don't need no stinkin' UnixG > features!  It's better by definition, and that's all there is to it!"  > > > That would be a mis-charecterization of my criticisms of his > comments.   J But it's not a mis-characterization of criticisms provided by some others,H and your implication that he was complaining unreasonably because *some*J (not very well delineated) caching improvements appear on the road map mayJ not have sat all that well in such a context, especially after you dragged in irrelevancies like GUI.  L Your enthusiasm appears to exceed your focus fairly commonly, at least in myK experience.  In a puppy, that can be endearing.  In a spirited and somewhat , contentious discussion, it can get annoying.   - bill  /   Sticking back in what you trimmed which would > > of course show I am not of that ilk is seen in this section: >  > ---  > G > > Oh come on.  It's perfectly fair to point out that on small systems  under K > > typical loads for such systems the file caching mechanisms used by Unix I > > (and WNT) do result in real increases in system performance, and it's K > > equally fair to point out that many pieces of software ported from Unix J > > implicitly assume this behavior and so run less efficiently on OpenVMS thanI > > they do on Unix.  This thread has nothing to do with GUIs vs. command  line, I > > it's about the real 2X to 3X performance boost that you get with file  > > caching. > >  > J >         No kidding.  My point was plainly stated in the very first line: >  > >>6 > >>      So things aren't moving fast enough for you? > >> > D >         It isn't as if they are sitting around up there over a cupH >         of coffee in an a.m. meeting *last week* and a hand went up in >         the back of the room:  > L >                 "Hey, I gotta an idea.  Howsa 'bout we fix up our caching.K >                 seems we should be able to do better than a hundred files K >                 at a time and maybe do like some of the Unix boxes I have 7 >                 heard about that has better caching."  > / >         It's a work in progress.  Get it?????  >  > -- > 6 > Throwing interpretation on that to make sure I'm not% > misunderstood, I mean that to mean:  > : > "VMS caching is lacking.. I am sure that VMS engineering3 > is well aware of how others do caching.  Roadmaps 2 > show that caching development is well underway." >  > >>6 > >>      So things aren't moving fast enough for you? > >> > 9 > Maybe they aren't moving fast enough for others either. A > Me?  I've got all the write-back caching I need in controllers. ! > But others aren't as fortuante.  >  > Rob  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 19:28:40 -0500 , From: "Glenn C. Everhart" <Everhart@GCE.com>@ Subject: Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever)& Message-ID: <3936B968.3B42F1F@GCE.com>  < The new VMS caching system has been in the works for quite a; while now and is much more heavily into the VMS kernel than < Spiralog ever was. There are a number of I/O system projects> however which it must not break, and there is some concern not= to break 3rd party apps. When you think of the virtual disks, > remote caching systems, 3rd party cachers, multipath failover,? shadow drivers, software RAID, and a bunch more whose code must A not be broken, and various bits that are still in the works which C need also not to break, you may begin to see some of the complexity < involved. Spiralog was after all able to use a process space< for cache. It is better, but harder to get right, in kernel.  ) I'm glad to hear the wait is NEARLY over.    ------------------------------  " Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 06:28:09 GMT* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)@ Subject: Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever)+ Message-ID: <PjT1QfU8ohB5@eisner.decus.org>   R In article <8h6mh0$p3e$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes:   > 7 > Rob Young <young_r@eisner.decus.org> wrote in message ' > news:ty6ArUaZ3tsO@eisner.decus.org... M >> In article <8h6h2o$c4h$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> 	 > writes:  >> >: >> > Rob Young <young_r@eisner.decus.org> wrote in message* >> > news:xxAEDAo7t0W0@eisner.decus.org...2 >> >> In article <8h3bc6$2gl@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu  >> > (David Mathog) writes:  >> > >> > ... >> >K >> >> > I'm not counting any of those chickens before they hatch.  Remember  > the E >> >> > buildup for Spiralog, and how many of us ended up using that?  >  > ...  > D >> >> All part of the base OS.  Spiralog was a bolt-on.  Yes it wentB >> >> away and a few may have been saddened.  But your point about@ >> >> the caching isn't a good one... it isn't "just a build up" >  > ...  > J >> > So while we can certainly hope that the EFC work turns out to be more> >> > worthwhile, I don't see David's comment as inappropriate. >> > >>@ >> What do you mean, specifically?  i.e. cite an example of what? >> he said that you don't disagree with and I will let you know & >> if I don't disagree with it either. > N > Since I had included only a single comment from David (above), I thought theN > reference was clear.  And you had already disagreed with it (see above for aJ > small portion).  And that's what I took exception to, and still do:  the( > parallel he drew was a reasonable one. >   > 	No... totally unreasonable one.  He is going on about cachingD 	and lack thereof in VMS and how much greater it is in Linux/Unix.  9 	Unreasonable?  Why sure.  Given what we except as facts:   * 			1)  Current VMS file caching is limited/ 			2)  Linux file caching and caching is better 3 			3)  Improved VMS file caching is being worked on - 				and publically available roadmaps reflect 	 				that.   < 	So what is his point?  Perhaps I am misinterpreting what he? 	is saying but I think he is saying that VMS filesystem caching > 	isn't as great as Linux and I say:  No kidding... it is being 	worked on.   8 >> It's there on a roadmap.  I didn't applaud timelines. > J > No, but you specifically suggested that the limited caching issues wouldD > disappear with 7.3, which to all appearances will not be the case. >   6 	Nit... so it gets even better on some future version.   >> > ... >> >A >> >> Is there anything else we can moan about?  I really need to  >> >> get practiced up...  >> >L >> > My suspicion is that at least a portion of David's annoyance stems from > the L >> > knee-jerk reactions to the effect that "VMS don't need no stinkin' UnixJ >> > features!  It's better by definition, and that's all there is to it!" > whenK >> > he presumed to suggest that Unix had performance advantages in certain  > areas M >> > that VMS might do well to consider.  Poring over Compaq OpenVMS Web site J >> > material is not a pre-requisite for participation in comp.os.vms, the > lackJ >> > of any mention of the road map information until now (when he startedJ >> > talking about this issue months ago) is sufficient indication that it > was M >> > not exactly foremost in the minds of other people either, and even if he  > had G >> > been aware of it not only are the details insufficient to indicate 	 > whether M >> > it will be comparable to the Unix facilities but he should not be blamed  > for G >> > wondering, on the basis of past future plans for VMS enhancements, 	 > whether M >> > it would appear on time (one who should know has suggested to me that it  > may > >> > originally have been slated for 7.2) and in full regalia. >> > >>
 >> Well... >> >> Specifically: >># >> "VMS don't need no stinkin' Unix H >> features!  It's better by definition, and that's all there is to it!" >>? >> That would be a mis-charecterization of my criticisms of his  >> comments. > L > But it's not a mis-characterization of criticisms provided by some others,J > and your implication that he was complaining unreasonably because *some*L > (not very well delineated) caching improvements appear on the road map mayL > not have sat all that well in such a context, especially after you dragged > in irrelevancies like GUI. >   C 	The irrelevancies of GUI were deliberate.  Now here is my parallel : 	and feel free to disagree... folks in various venues feelA 	GUIs are the cat's meow and working at a command line is insane. @ 	Some of it is truly a matter of preference.  Others are totallyC 	convinced it is a productivty issue.  We could complain that there C 	isn't a Window's interface for manipulating SYSGEN yet and not see > 	it on a roadmap and make that a big issue.  Now here is whereB 	it get a little presumptuous.  I presume that David is interestedA 	in VMS.  Being interested in VMS and its limited caching I would B 	also presume is something he would like to see improved and maybeC 	even see if it is happening, when it is happening, etc.  But no... B 	when I jump into the breech , here is his head-in-the-sand reply:   	Me:  @ > Caching gets much improved in the next go round of VMS (unlessF  > I've mixed up roadmaps or am misremembering).  How did this happen?F  > Senior engineer at a DECUS explained that: "remember, VIOC was justC  > a stop-gap measure... it wasn't supposed to be around this long" C  > or something similar.  Relase notes showed new sysgen parameters G  > for write behind caching and write delay.  Something to look forward F  > to.  So how did this happen?  Fork in the road called Spiralog from  > what I understand.   >   	David:    O I'm not counting any of those chickens before they hatch.  Remember the buildup M for Spiralog, and how many of us ended up using that?  Meanwhile, back at the K farm, for the sorts of applications which I (and everybody else in my field H run) Linux and Tru64 "out of the box" outperform VMS "out of the box" onK identical hardware by a wide margin on systems which are "lightly loaded".  O This is true for virtually every application which "runs faster on Unix than on O OpenVMS".  Moreover, it's likely that much of the weakness we see in FTP server M and SMB server performance on OpenVMS are due to this single difference (with N the rest being due to TCP/IP stack incompatibilities with the client systems.)    = 	So then it becomes a matter of unbelief.  Not one to give up 7 	easily let me lead the horse to water.  Let's continue ; 	the absurdity a bit for effect and pretend David responds:   : 		"Roadmaps , big deal... if I had a nickel for everything( 		I saw on a roadmap that didn't , etc."  = 	Okay... so then I appeal to Glenn Everhart who assures that  . 	file caching development is well underway....  ? 	The point of my GUI dredging was an attempt to draw a parallel B 	absurdity to the surface so we could beat on that a while.  MightD 	as well, after all we would have very similar results :-).  WishingC 	and hoping for Window's like features may be even more absurd than B 	improved file caching becuase we know the latter is well underway= 	whereas the former may not be happening for quite some time.     N > Your enthusiasm appears to exceed your focus fairly commonly, at least in myM > experience.  In a puppy, that can be endearing.  In a spirited and somewhat . > contentious discussion, it can get annoying. >   D 	Regarding David's little issue here... I thought I did a reasonable? 	job steering him to where things get better and Glenn provided D 	enough sunshine on the subject to add confirmation.  Maybe a singleB 	line of David's reply summarizes how we differ and dovetails to a- 	refutation of your puppy endearment comment:   ; "I'm not counting any of those chickens before they hatch."   < 	In fairness to David, maybe he didn't know about filesystem@ 	caching futures BUT I do know that has been mentioned more than; 	once in this forum.  So in examination of the evidence his B 	response more than reveals his bent.  He's a "glass is half full"D 	kinda guy and I'm not.  Oh...  and I'm willing to go out and dig up> 	a bit of stuff to add credence to what I believe... it isn't A 	irrational exuberance, it is genuine enthusiasm based on factual C 	evidence.  You may call into question some of the so called facts, ; 	true ... not all of them hold up but many do... it doesn't A 	make me infallable as I make mistakes all the time.  But it does ' 	help me to understand things better.     B 	If you are so convinced as David that caching isn't getting much C 	better in VMS , you would be willing to lay a wager, wouldn't you? F 	But that isn't how you feel at all as you know it is coming, so then  	the question becomes:  + 		"How SOON does it need to show up to make 8 		the vast majority happy about VMS filesystem caching?"  1 	3 years ago?   	(Not possible, it didn't happen) 1 	Last week?     	(Not possible, it didn't happen) = 	Next year?     	(probable, but we want it now, some unhappy) = 	3 years from now? (likely, but we want it now, some unhappy)   @ 	But it is a lose lose proposition for those that want to use itC 	today.  No wonder some of those folks are "glass half full" kinda  	 	folks.      				Rob    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 13:32:14 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: VMS on the desktop?- Message-ID: <39369E1E.249ED7D2@tsoft-inc.com>    Alan Greig wrote:  > @ > In article <hshubs-207467.23034324052000@news.mindspring.com>,1 >   Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com> wrote:  > > G > > IMO, SSU was too cool.  And the DECservers which performed the same  > > function were even cooler. > B > Mot even "were" as the DECServer 90 and 900(?) are still currentI > products although they are now manufactured by Cabletron. Interestingly D > Cabletron are in negotiations with Compaq (amongst others) to sellG > all the DEChub equipment back to Compaq. I can't remember now but did ; > DEC sell the networking business prior to the Compaqtion?    Yes    > -- > Alan Greig > ( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.    --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596; 170 Grimplin Road               E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 19:48:30 -0500 (CDT)  From: sms@antinode.org= Subject: Re: VMS V6.2 to V7.2 upgrade disaster (VAXsta 3138). ) Message-ID: <00060119483082@antinode.org>   H    Thanks for the private and public responses.  Covering the questions:  G > [...] does the VAX not continue booting after this message?   Did you  > halt it right there? [...]  G > Post the last 5 lines or so, that'll allow us to figure out where the  > boot process stopped.   6    After the message "%DECnet-W-NOOPEN, could not openE SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]NET$CONFIG.DAT", it spontaneously started to boot G again.  That was the last thing it said, just before the screen cleared I and it started again with the usual "83 BOOT SYS", "-DKA200", and so on.  ) I didn't touch it.  Left alone, it loops.   ! > Have you tried to boot minimal?   D    Yup.  After the "SYSBOOT> CONT", it proceeded to fail as before. H Apparently, whatever is broken happens quite early.  I have yet to check@ the start-up sequence, but the problem with mounting the disk in, mini-VMS suggests that it's related to that.  E    I did install DECnet-Plus during the upgrade, so that accounts for G the missing NET$CONFIG.DAT, as I did not get a chance to configure it.  H The system is normally part of a cluster, but VAXCLUSTER was set to zeroG for the upgrade, and, as with the network configurartion, I did not get  a chance to change it back.   H    Restoring the V6.2 image backup revealed a few apparent bad blocks on> the disk (BACKUP verify errors, "PARITY", as I recall).  AfterE recovering the affected files (all in SYS$HELP) from an older backup, B and deleting the troubled ones, I could hear the bad block program? scrubbing them.  A second round of BACKUP got similar errors in F different places, so it appears that the bad blocks are not put out ofG action permanently.  Firmware format (TEST 75?) gave no complaints.  It H may be time to look for a different, obsolete disk drive to replace this one.  D    As the second disk in this thing is 4GB, and hence too big to letF Standalone BACKUP boot reliably from it, and as I'm getting too old toE waste the time required to boot it from a TK50, I finally had a valid H excuse to use my RX23 floppy kit.  That almost made it worth the bother.  G    I may not be able to get back to this fount of fun for a week or so, F but is there a SYSBOOT>-settable parameter which does a SET VERIFY for the start-up procedures?  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home) C    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work) G    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work) 9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 19:18:01 GMT 1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>  Subject: Re: What is KSPBA-CY?2 Message-ID: <3936B6D0.A70BD040@clarityconnect.com>  E It is the field replaceable unit for the SCSI controller KSPBA-CB but % doesn't include the firmware or docs.    Tom Brand wrote: > = > I've got a PCI I/O adapter, box is labeled as a 'KZPBA-CY'.  > F > Can anyone identify this thing?  I can't find it on Compaq site, nor& > in the old System & Options catalog. >  > Thanks   --  D Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------   Date: 1 JUN 2000 17:35:45 GMT 4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) Subject: Re: What is KSPBA-CY?5 Message-ID: <1JUN00.17354509@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>   ; In a previous article, Tom Brand <Tom.Brand@bmc.org> wrote: = ->I've got a PCI I/O adapter, box is labeled as a 'KZPBA-CY'.  ->  G ->Can anyone identify this thing?  I can't find it on Compaq site, nor  & ->in the old System & Options catalog.  A A KZPBA-CY is a "PCI to UltraSCSI Differential Module" and is the H hardware part number contained in the KZPBA-CB option "kit". Other parts@ of the kit include release notes, user guide,  firmware CD, etc.   ------------------------------  " Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 19:12:58 GMT( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> Subject: Re: What is KSPBA-CY?' Message-ID: <FvHpDM.EHt@spcuna.spc.edu>   % Tom Brand <Tom.Brand@bmc.org> writes: = > I've got a PCI I/O adapter, box is labeled as a 'KZPBA-CY'.  > G > Can anyone identify this thing?  I can't find it on Compaq site, nor  & > in the old System & Options catalog.  G   The KZPBA family are re-badged QLogic QLA104x SCSI controllers, but I H only know of the -CA and -CB variants. KSPBA (from your subject) isn't a valid part number.  I   Take a look at http://www.qlogic.com/products/pdf/guides/ultra_scsi.pdf & for the QLogic manual for these cards.  - 	Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com 5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USA    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 04:25:58 GMT  From: Dan <dan@vrx.net>   Subject: where to find firmware?& Message-ID: <393736B9.B9020D6@vrx.net>  C I'm trying to find the firmware for a DEC VXT2000 terminal adapter, > right now it just starts up, runs bootp looking for the image.B can't seem to find it on the compaq (dec) ftp site where the alpha5 firmware and such is hiding (logical place to start).   - Any suggestions? anyone out there have these?    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 20:07:47 -0400 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> " Subject: RE: Wildfire AnnouncementJ Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284349@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com>   Andrew, Andrew ..   H So, if you have no faith in what Compaq marketing is stating on officialK Compaq pages, and if you continue to think that the head of Oracle does not J in any way stand behind what he says, and if you continue to ignore recentK wins (17% of OpenVMS revenue last year was new business, but I don't expect F you to believe that) and if you continue to try to spread gloom-n-doomH information from the past to the readers of this list no matter what new  information is presented here ..  J Sure, there are issues to be addressed. Sure, OpenVMS marketing could have= been better in the past. All OS's and platforms have issues.    H However, when presented with very positive new information, you continueJ with your "sky is falling" FUD that totally ignores the new information.    = How can you expect anyone to reasonably take you seriously ?    C I just came back from a week of futures, new stuff in VMS V7.3, new J application vendor strategies (including eBusiness), great new performanceH enhancements, new marketing strategies (read the magic word GROW OpenVMS business) etc etc..   J No, I am sorry, I can not publish this internal information. You will justK have to degrade this information as something in my imagination which never 	 happened.   H [btw - your replies are getting longer - for me, that says something ..]   :-)    Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant,
 Compaq Canada  Professional Services  Voice : 613-592-4660 FAX   : 819-772-7036 Email : kerry.main@compaq.com        -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy ! [mailto:andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com] & Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 10:22 AM To: Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com " Subject: Re: Wildfire Announcement     "Main, Kerry" wrote:  	 > Andrew,  > J > Hey cool - anytime I get more than a paragraph response back from you, I > know I hit a sore spot ..  >   < Nope as I said I view OpenVMS as being "mostly harmless" andA your response only confirmed my view. If it was designed to boost > the spirits of the other readers of this newsgroup who rely on? OpenVMS for their businesses or their jobs then it failed since F it only re-iterated posts that have been trotted out a number of timesA before. Rob Young posted stuff at least 18 months ago saying that ? ISV's such as Oracle and Sybase were in discussions with Compaq ? about using OpenVMS and Galaxies nothing has happened since and  your post is very similar.  H > >>> Compaq pays Oracle a considerable amount of money for the OpenVMS, Tru64 H > ports of Oracle, you should get something back for your investment andK > Larry's kind words are part of the deal. Don't read anything else into it  > than that. <<< > I > Really ? Are you implying that the head of Oracle will say anything for  the G > right price? Please confirm this is not what you meant. This is fud -  plain - > and simple (and not very nice fud at that).   E Read it how you like, Larry turned up because Compaq is a partner who E Oracle get significant revenues from and who pay Oracle a significant F amount of money for their Oracle ports. If neither conditions had beenB satisfied then it would have been much harder to get him on stage.  J Larry has done the same thing for Sun, HP and IBM, you are being amazinglyK naive if you think that his appearance at the WildFire event is any form of A endorsement of OpenVMS over Solaris/HP-UX/AIX or any of the other  OS's that Oracle is ported to.  L > >>> Really, so who is Compaq working with to get e-Business apps availableJ > on OpenVMS. It isn't WebSphere, iPlanet, Ariba, Commerceone, Broadvision > ATG, HP.<< > L > So, do you have Compaq's list of who they are talking to ? How do you knowF > this? You seem to have missed the point I made in the following url: > L <http://www1.compaq.com/pressrelease/0,1494,wp%7E14583_2%21ob%7E30093_1_1,00 > .html>  D No I hav't I read press release it contains no information about who> Compaq are talking to apart from Oracle and SAP. It is a press? release and as press releases go is pretty content free. So who 8 are you talking to to get OpenVMS ports ????? or is this simply marketing BS ?   > I am more interested in why for example you cannot get Compaqs= own Crypto accelerator for OpenVMS, why none of the AltaVista 8 products run on OpenVMS, these are things within Compaqs? control and if you can't get this right then how can you expect < to get it right with ISV's. Yes I know Compaq sold AltaVista< but surely you kept some ties to future software releases on your platforms !!!!    >  > > From same url:E > > "ISV Recruitment Program: Compaq is working closely with existing I > > application partners, such as Oracle and SAP, and emerging ISVs(5) to I > > deliver full e-business solutions for Compaq's Tru64 UNIX and OpenVMS  > > operating systems."  > H > Is this not the statement that those on this list have been waiting to hearK > for some time? Granted, I am sure folks will want to wait and see what is L > coming, but surely this is a good statement to be seen coming from Compaq?- > (ok, perhaps not from a Sun point of view).  >   B No sorry its just a statement, its been made before. Where are the; statements of support from the unnamed ISV's, why no SAP on 8 OpenVMS announcement, why no WebSphere/iPlanet/BEA/Ariba% HP statements of support for OpenVMS.   = Remember people have seen this all before but there have been 7 no positive results except that OpenVMS has become more 1 "harmless" because fewer ISV's have supported it.    > J > Again, check out this url and look at the reference names that are doing GS" > Series (big Alpha's) on OpenVMS:6 > <http://www.openvms.digital.com/gsseries/index.html> > # > Also check out these recent urls: / > http://www.cognos.com/powerhouse/openvms.html H > http://www1.compaq.com/ppresspaq/0,1497,wp~2442_2!ob~22030_1_1,00.html4 > http://www.e-dbms.com/analysts/2000/benchmark.html >   : Why choose Cognos, I know Powerhouse runs on on OpenVMS it@ has for ages but the eBusiness tools don't Powerplay doesn't and> Cognos refer to how easy it is to port from OpenVMS/HP MPE andH AS/400 to "Open" platforms in a number of their white papers, should youA be promoting what looks like a tool tha allows easy re-hosting of ) OpenVMS applications to other platforms ?   7 http://www.cognos.com/axiant/ax4glwp.pdf is a migration 1 guide for people moving apps from Legacy systems, ) Cognos mention OpenVMS, AS400 and HP MPE.    > J > Don't forget that eBusiness (once you strip the marketing fluff away) isH > simply OLTP with web based front ends and improved business processes.K > OpenVMS has a great background in this area and with the renewed focus on K > GROWING the OpenVMS business (and applications available), I suspect this G > will be seen as good news for both those on this list now and the new ) > Customers I expect to see popping up ..   < eBusiness may well be OLTP with web front ends with improved> business processes, but don't expect OpenVMS to participate in< this. Look at how these apps are being built, J2EE, EJB, C++? deployed using applications servers which with the exception of 7 Weblogic don't run on OpenVMS and the other bits of the 9 BEA suite don't so thats a problem, using web portals and 7 personalisation engines that don't run on OpenVMS, with 5 Web servers that don't run on OpenVMS and in a lot of ; cases databases that don't run or currently are unavailable  for OpenVMS.  3 Arguably OpenVMS may be OK for OLTP though there is : no realtive performance measure available to measure this,? but it simply does not have the building blocks that developers & building large eBusiness systems need.  @ I have been involved in the design of three very large eBusiness8 systems where there was and is no possibility of OpenVMS; playing a part because none of the building blocks selected 8 or shortlisted run on OpenVMS. I doubt that the contents> of your press release offer any improvement in this situation.   Regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 19:44:08 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> " Subject: Re: Wildfire Announcement, Message-ID: <3936F547.960530AA@videotron.ca>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:M > Really ? Are you implying that the head of Oracle will say anything for the M > right price? Please confirm this is not what you meant. This is fud - plain - > and simple (and not very nice fud at that).   N In all fairness, I think that Oracle will say anything to make their customersM look good. Ellison admitted that Compaq was not exclusive in its "first tier" K programme and that there were others. Ellison also said that Oracle doesn't  use just Compaq gear in house.  J > Don't forget that eBusiness (once you strip the marketing fluff away) isH > simply OLTP with web based front ends and improved business processes.  N Ahhh, but it is all in the marketing.  Bank hears about some .com company thatI makes on-line banking apps, and then bank buys that software and whatever N platform it runs on. Does 7.24 Solutions' applications run on VMS ? Banks seemG to have jumped on that bandwagon and adopting their software. (They are  Toronto based)  I How many large companies now build their own applications ? Few. They buy N products. And while you are right that web based transaction processing is not9 rocket science, it is all in the packaging and marketing.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 23:03:49 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> " Subject: Re: Wildfire Announcement, Message-ID: <3937240E.9F1A6BDC@videotron.ca>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:J > So, if you have no faith in what Compaq marketing is stating on officialM > Compaq pages, and if you continue to think that the head of Oracle does not & > in any way stand behind what he says  L I don't think that this is what has been said. I think it is more a questionA of Compaq having no real special status within the Oracle empire.   G This is similar to Palmer's claims of having a unique relationship with I Microsoft, when every manufacturer had a similar relationship (and did so / without having to give the family jewels away).    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Jun 2000 20:12:14 -0700 * From: dunnett@mala.bc.ca (Malcolm Dunnett)" Subject: Re: Wildfire Announcement, Message-ID: <+nbg+j3Qxpw0@malvm2.mala.bc.ca>  - In article <3936F547.960530AA@videotron.ca>,  2    JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > P > In all fairness, I think that Oracle will say anything to make their customersO > look good. Ellison admitted that Compaq was not exclusive in its "first tier" M > programme and that there were others. Ellison also said that Oracle doesn't   > use just Compaq gear in house. > F     Oracle talks a good game, but I'll believe their commitment when IJ actually see a copy of Oracle 8.1 for VMS on my desk ( and when subsequentO releases come out for VMS in less than a year after other "tier 1" platforms ).    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 00:11:12 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> " Subject: Re: Wildfire Announcement, Message-ID: <393733DF.969E8CD2@videotron.ca>   Malcolm Dunnett wrote:H >     Oracle talks a good game, but I'll believe their commitment when IL > actually see a copy of Oracle 8.1 for VMS on my desk ( and when subsequentQ > releases come out for VMS in less than a year after other "tier 1" platforms ).   M During the wildfire announcement, there was nothing mention of Oracle on VMS. L They were careful to qualify any realtionship Oracle-Compaq with True64. So,K there is no commitment to beleive in bvecause there is no public commitment 6 for VMS , as far as the wildfire launch was concerned.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.306 ************************