1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 02 Jun 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 307       Contents:# Actual vs Theoretical Network Speed ' Re: Actual vs Theoretical Network Speed ' RE: Actual vs Theoretical Network Speed ' Re: Actual vs Theoretical Network Speed ' Re: Actual vs Theoretical Network Speed  Changing password in html? Re: Changing password in html? Re: Connecting to console port. . Re: DOS (CMD) commands to Win 2000 from VMS AS Re: ES40 Configuration future of PMDF and VMS Re: General discussion comment Re: General discussion comment Re: General discussion comment Re: General discussion comment Re: General discussion comment Re: General discussion comment* Re: Guide to AST and reentrant programming* Re: Guide to AST and reentrant programming1 Re: How can I get rid of a process in RWMPB state 1 Re: How can I get rid of a process in RWMPB state 4 Looking for freeware .LIS to .PDF convertors for VMS New Apache beta out , Re: None dare call it Legacy (ISE goes live), Re: None dare call it Legacy (ISE goes live)( None dare call it Legacy (ISE goes live), Re: None dare call it Legacy (ISE goes live), Re: None dare call it Legacy (ISE goes live), Re: None dare call it Legacy (ISE goes live)A Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire) 9 Re: Prior version support was (Re: OpenVMS commentaries )  Re: Problem with resource locks  Re: Problem with resource locks ' Re: Remote Print From Vax/VMS to AS/400  SImple graphs fro VMS  Re: SImple graphs fro VMS  SNA & PSI support on DSV-11  Re: SNA & PSI support on DSV-11 . SWCC problem to manage a RaidArray 310 (HSZ20)2 Re: SWCC problem to manage a RaidArray 310 (HSZ20)2 Re: SWCC problem to manage a RaidArray 310 (HSZ20)) Tru64 poised to open source DLM, AFS, LVM  Re: Unneeed RMS overhead with C  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX VMS 7.2 Bug?/ Re: VAX VMS 7.2 Bug?  ;  backup/image/(no)alias - Re: VAX VMS 7.2 Bug? ; backup/image/(no)alias - Re: VAX VMS 7.2 Bug? ; backup/image/(no)alias - Re: VAX VMS 7.2 Bug? ; backup/image/(no)alias - Re: VAX VMS 7.2 Bug? ; backup/image/(no)alias - Re: VAX VMS 7.2 Bug? ; backup/image/(no)alias - Re: VAX VMS 7.2 Bug? ; backup/image/(no)alias  Re: VEST / DECmigrate  Re: VEST / DECmigrate 7 Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever) 7 Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever) 7 Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever) 7 Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever) 4 Re: VMS V6.2 to V7.2 upgrade disaster (VAXsta 3138). Re: Wildfire Announcement  Re: Wildfire Announcement  Re: Wildfire Announcement   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 15:41:04 GMT 3 From: "Gord Coulman" <nospam_gcoulman@ccinet.ab.ca> , Subject: Actual vs Theoretical Network Speed9 Message-ID: <kAQZ4.10510$6x.222515@news0.telusplanet.net>   K Searching for a network bottleneck the other day, I transferred a few large : files and measured how long it took.  Here are my results:   Size      Time    Speed  (MB)    (sec)    (Mbit/sec)  7            4        14 22          12      14.7 241        153    12.6  I This was between a couple of W98 PCs on a 100Mbit switched LAN over CAT5. B The switches are 3Com Switch 3300's and the NICs are Intel 10/100.  J My question:  I know that actual network throughput is always smaller thatJ theoretical, but how much smaller?  What is a reasonable number to expect?   Gord Coulman   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 09:55:46 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <treahy@mmaz.com> 0 Subject: Re: Actual vs Theoretical Network Speed' Message-ID: <3937E712.9805C8A@mmaz.com>   O Gord, first assuming that when you state MB, you really mean a megabyte of data O and not one million bytes and second of all, dod you really mean megabits under N the speed column?  Assuming MB=megabutes and Mbit is megabits, I calculate outM the 4 second transfer at 17.92 megabits per second.  The second file at 18.77 J Mb/sec and 16.13 Mb/sec.  I'm assuming that you are running on a 100 Mb TP9 ethernet?  Are you seeing collisions, CRC or packet loss?    Barry    Gord Coulman wrote:   M > Searching for a network bottleneck the other day, I transferred a few large < > files and measured how long it took.  Here are my results: >  > Size      Time    Speed  > (MB)    (sec)    (Mbit/sec)  > 7            4        14 > 22          12      14.7 > 241        153    12.6 > K > This was between a couple of W98 PCs on a 100Mbit switched LAN over CAT5. D > The switches are 3Com Switch 3300's and the NICs are Intel 10/100. > L > My question:  I know that actual network throughput is always smaller thatL > theoretical, but how much smaller?  What is a reasonable number to expect? >  > Gord Coulman   --  ? Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO   A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 17:58:49 +0100 8 From: John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk>0 Subject: RE: Actual vs Theoretical Network SpeedL Message-ID: <B8D7D072032FD411BE7A0090279FA2401ED5AB@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk>  H We see up to around 60 Mbits/sec here on 100 Mbits/sec switched EthernetL with UNIX and PC boxes but much less than that with VMS: around 6 Mbits/sec.K These figures are observed maxima i.e. tending towards the figures expected  on dedicated systems.    John  B Name: John B. Macallister  E-mail: j.macallister1@physics.ox.ac.ukH Post: Nuclear and Astrophysics Laboratory, Keble Road, Oxford OX1 3RH,UKA Phone: +44-1865-273388 (direct)  273333 (reception)  273418 (Fax)      -----Original Message-----8 From: Gord Coulman [mailto:nospam_gcoulman@ccinet.ab.ca]# Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 4:41 PM  To: John Macallister, Subject: Actual vs Theoretical Network Speed    K Searching for a network bottleneck the other day, I transferred a few large : files and measured how long it took.  Here are my results:   Size      Time    Speed  (MB)    (sec)    (Mbit/sec)  7            4        14 22          12      14.7 241        153    12.6  I This was between a couple of W98 PCs on a 100Mbit switched LAN over CAT5. B The switches are 3Com Switch 3300's and the NICs are Intel 10/100.  J My question:  I know that actual network throughput is always smaller thatJ theoretical, but how much smaller?  What is a reasonable number to expect?   Gord Coulman   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 17:34:39 GMT 3 From: "Gord Coulman" <nospam_gcoulman@ccinet.ab.ca> 0 Subject: Re: Actual vs Theoretical Network Speed9 Message-ID: <PeSZ4.10522$6x.223579@news0.telusplanet.net>   B Barry, yes the first column is MegaBytes.  Here's how I calculated throughput:   ' 7 Megabytes X 8 bits/byte = 56 Megabits , 56 Megabits / 4 seconds = 14 Megabits/second  H Perhaps I oversimplified things.  How did you get 17.92 Megabits/second?  4 Barry Treahy, Jr. <treahy@mmaz.com> wrote in message! news:3937E712.9805C8A@mmaz.com... L > Gord, first assuming that when you state MB, you really mean a megabyte of dataK > and not one million bytes and second of all, dod you really mean megabits  under L > the speed column?  Assuming MB=megabutes and Mbit is megabits, I calculate out I > the 4 second transfer at 17.92 megabits per second.  The second file at  18.77 L > Mb/sec and 16.13 Mb/sec.  I'm assuming that you are running on a 100 Mb TP; > ethernet?  Are you seeing collisions, CRC or packet loss?   H I don't have any network diagnostic equipment and wasn't near the hub toL watch the blinky lights.  The network operates normally, but I am seeking to	 find out:   * a.  Am I getting the bandwidth I paid for?0 b.  If not, is there anything I can do about it?   Gord.    >  > Barry  >  > Gord Coulman wrote:  > I > > Searching for a network bottleneck the other day, I transferred a few  large > > > files and measured how long it took.  Here are my results: > >  > > Size      Time    Speed  > > (MB)    (sec)    (Mbit/sec)  > > 7            4        14 > > 22          12      14.7 > > 241        153    12.6 > > G > > This was between a couple of W98 PCs on a 100Mbit switched LAN over  CAT5. F > > The switches are 3Com Switch 3300's and the NICs are Intel 10/100. > > I > > My question:  I know that actual network throughput is always smaller  thatF > > theoretical, but how much smaller?  What is a reasonable number to expect?  > >  > > Gord Coulman >  > -- > A > Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIO  > C > E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028  >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 17:37:03 GMT 3 From: "Gord Coulman" <nospam_gcoulman@ccinet.ab.ca> 0 Subject: Re: Actual vs Theoretical Network Speed9 Message-ID: <3hSZ4.10523$6x.223036@news0.telusplanet.net>   C John Macallister <J.Macallister1@physics.ox.ac.uk> wrote in message F news:B8D7D072032FD411BE7A0090279FA2401ED5AB@ppnt41.physics.ox.ac.uk...J > We see up to around 60 Mbits/sec here on 100 Mbits/sec switched EthernetC > with UNIX and PC boxes but much less than that with VMS: around 6 
 Mbits/sec.D > These figures are observed maxima i.e. tending towards the figures expected > on dedicated systems.   J John, that 60 Mbits/sec is more like what I expected to get.  What kind ofA equipment are you using?  Have you done any kind of optimization?    Gord.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 12:23:47 +0100 0 From: David Pattenden <dpattenden@wilco-int.com># Subject: Changing password in html? - Message-ID: <39379943.AD531EC2@wilco-int.com>   6 I'm trying to change my vms password using html forms.  , Can anybody point me in the right direction? (I'm a complete vms novice)    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 07:36:30 -0400 , From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>' Subject: Re: Changing password in html? > Message-ID: <hshubs-2C1E0B.07363002062000@news.mindspring.com>  > In article <39379943.AD531EC2@wilco-int.com>, David Pattenden ! <dpattenden@wilco-int.com> wrote:   7 >I'm trying to change my vms password using html forms. - >Can anybody point me in the right direction?    CGI.   --   Howard S Shubs, the Denim Adept    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 15:33:40 GMT * From: Stephen Henry <stephen@laughnet.net>( Subject: Re: Connecting to console port.+ Message-ID: <3937D45E.D0CC92D@laughnet.net>   H     I'm interested in doing the same thing, so I did a little searching.P Beyond.com sells the cables already made for fifteen bucks, which isn't bad whenL you compare that to having to buy all the connectors and then an MMJ crimperN (Found one for $61).  A search for MMJ will bring up the cables, and they have
 DB9 and DB25.      Steve    Chris Morrill wrote:  K > Is there an easy way to connect to the console port of a VAX without a VT N > term?  I am trying to set up a VAX3100 but do not have a VT term.  I am sure* > it is sitting at the >>> prompt now.  :)   --G **NEW** Check Out LaughNet After Dark http://www.laughnet.net/afterdark < Lose Weight Laughing At LaughNet!!   http://www.laughnet.net= Independent Cartoonist's Homepage http://www.laughnet.net/ich    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 14:00:25 +02004 From: "Pathworks News" <Daniel.Grund@notformail.com>7 Subject: Re: DOS (CMD) commands to Win 2000 from VMS AS 6 Message-ID: <8h87kj$6b4$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>   Yes, ADMIN TELL    -- Daniel Grund   Compaq Customer Services " Microsoft Certified Support Centre1 Pathworks/Advanced Server Expertise Centre Europe    The Netherlands . "Ian Parker" <parker@gol.com> wrote in message  news:V5tsnQAZJZN5EwEB@gol.com...E > In article <4.2.0.58.20000531154343.01a12810@postoffice.brown.edu>, 0 > Jeffrey Hiris <Jeffrey_Hiris@BROWN.EDU> writes
 > >Hi all: > > C > >it never hurts to ask: does anyone know of a way to send a "DOS" 	 (CMD.EXE) K > >command string to a Win 2000 system from a VMS host via any command (LM, J > >ADMIN, I don't care) ?  The Unix R commands are not an option--I'm justC > >wondering if there's a command like ADMIN TELL that I've missed.  > > 	 > >thanks  > > C > >Jeff Hiris, System Manager               Jeffrey_Hiris@brown.edu ? > >171 Meeting St., Box G-B223              Phone: 401-863-3317 ? > >CHCR, Brown University   02912           FAX:   401-863-3489  > I > That's something I need.  From NT, I can issue remote commands by using I > AT and specifying the remote NT system.  Is there, for example, any way  > to do that from ADMIN? >  >  > -- > Ian Parker   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 14:56:35 GMT  From: d.webb@mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: ES40 Configuration ) Message-ID: <8h8huq$oc6$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   / In article <sja0noho5pj170@corp.supernews.com>, ,   "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> wrote: > F > Jan Vorbrueggen <jan#fsnif.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote > in messageD > news:y4zop7ukvn.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de...3 > > "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> writes:  > > 4 > > > Otherwise if a bad device jams a channel [...] > > F > > How often does that really happen - a disk jamming the channel for all  > other F > > devices? I would have thought that to be an extremely rare failure mode,  > and ? > > easily recovered from by disconnecting it from the channel.       ; In storageworks a channel is often associated with a shelf. G A dodgy power-supply (for instance) on a shelf could take out the whole D shelf. (As an added safeguard against this shelves can be setup with dual power-supplies). D Hence it was always recommended for safety (as well as performance )7 reasons to build raid-arrays across shelves(/channels).   
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University > F > I have not seen it on an HSG or HSZ array.  It may be a rare failure mode, E > but one that is very possible.  It all depends on how critical your  data is & > to you, and your degree of paranoia. > H > If such a failure occurs, by the time you physically remove the device fromF > the channel, if another disk in the raid set is on the same channel, thenH > you have potentially lost data on the RAID set.  At the least you have/ > downtime on anything accessing that RAID set.  > G > I have seen a channel lost on a backplane RAID controller a few times G > because of cabling problems.  If more than one member of the RAID set  was on+ > that channel, it would have been noticed.  > E > Also there are performance reasons for only putting one member of a  RAID set > on each channel. >  > -John  > wb8tyw@qsl.network >  >     & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2000 17:31:41 GMT # From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu  Subject: future of PMDF and VMS + Message-ID: <8h8r1t$l63$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>    Hello,;     I am seriously considering purchasing PMDF-MTA for VMS.   E     While Sun may drop support for PMDF on VMS at some point is there E any reason to believe that the current version of PMDF will cease to  $ function for future versions of VMS?  E     My understanding is that PMDF is a pretty solid product and given F that VMS maintains pretty decent backward compatability this shouldn't
 be a problem.   A     Can anybody see a problem with this?  Is IMAP due for a major 3 change that would make the PMDF product obsolete?     @     I am currently running IUPOP3 and MX 5.1.  I need the IMAP4 @ capabilities that PMDF has.  Is it possible to just use the IMAP@ facilities and to continue, at least temporarily with IUPOP3 and MX?   & Thank you for any advice you can give.   Robert Morphis@physics.niu.edu 8 Real Women change tires			abuse@uu.net postmaster@uu.net7 Real Men change diapers                 security@uu.net    ------------------------------  " Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 06:57:01 GMT* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)' Subject: Re: General discussion comment + Message-ID: <2MMtAbNRi3+m@eisner.decus.org>   g In article <3937266E.9A5CCF26@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:  > Rob Young wrote:F >>         Ouch.. so it takes 20 Orbs to make 1 DLT IV?  How does that >>         make me excited?  > J > I take it down time for BACKUP ("BACKUP window") is not an issue at your > site?  >   = 	Not at all.  I am "down" for 4 minutes.  Quite an acceptable < 	issue at late evening for us.  Obviously, very unacceptable? 	in numerous situations.  Busting out a member of a shadow set, @ 	leaving behind 2 shadowset members OR a single shadowset memberB 	that is a hardware mirrorset... can't be too careful you know ;-)- 	and disks are REAL cheap.  Disasters aren't.     - >>  BTW, DLT IVs can be had for less than $90 E >>         dollars (I actually got 100 of them for less than $80 once G >>         and the guy let me know I was getting them near his cost, he + >>         didn't reveal his cost however).  > G > Sad news: I saw a proposal today for DLT-IV $70/ea, qty. 50. Sorry to  > spoil your day.  >     A 	Oh, you didn't spoil my day.  I didn't pay for them, the company < 	did and I shopped the country for them.  Believe I got themB 	for around $77 but it has been a while , it was over 2 years ago.  : >> > Know any sites that COULDN'T use something like that? >>  F >>         Yeah, me.  I backup many Gigabytes per night, would take me" >>         15-20 Orbs per night... > ? > O.k. So, you split/reconstitute 15-20 mirror-sets each night.  >   ; 	I get it... you are at the controller doing this?  And you C 	don't have Orbs in a "rotation"?  Tell me about the time when you  E 	have the mirror split.. what if your primary takes a hardware hit?   G 	Yes, it is a small window... what 30 minutes?  Less?  But still.. you  ; 	know when hardware takes a hit?  When you hope it doesn't.    > Where's the problem? >   H 	Oh, I suppose the problem might lie in some of the 8 Gig volumes I have? 	and a few multi-gigabyte files... how do those 2.01 GByte Orbs  	work in those situations?  : 	But now I see what you are saying.. you are using them asA 	nearline backups.  You are then rolling them off to tape?  If so @ 	, how many tapes in your rotation?  If not, how do you go about> 	disaster recovery?   If you have one set offsite, that leaves 	one set onsite... etc.   ? 	Care to explain in a little more detail what you are doing and ? 	how the "Orbs" are actually used?  I'm not opposed to what you G 	are doing, interested actually ... but it won't work for me I believe.    				Rob    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2000 06:29 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) ' Subject: Re: General discussion comment , Message-ID: <2JUN200006292012@gerg.tamu.edu>  ; "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes...  }Rob Young wrote: F }>         Ouch.. so it takes 20 Orbs to make 1 DLT IV?  How does that }>         make me excited?  } I }I take it down time for BACKUP ("BACKUP window") is not an issue at your  }site? } - }>  BTW, DLT IVs can be had for less than $90 E }>         dollars (I actually got 100 of them for less than $80 once G }>         and the guy let me know I was getting them near his cost, he + }>         didn't reveal his cost however).  } F }Sad news: I saw a proposal today for DLT-IV $70/ea, qty. 50. Sorry to }spoil your day. } : }> > Know any sites that COULDN'T use something like that? }>  F }>         Yeah, me.  I backup many Gigabytes per night, would take me" }>         15-20 Orbs per night... } > }O.k. So, you split/reconstitute 15-20 mirror-sets each night. }  }Where's the problem?  }--  }David J. Dachtera  G So why don't you just use nice cheap floppies instead. It's just 20,000 	 floppies.    Where's the problem?   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 08:11:13 -0500 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> ' Subject: Re: General discussion comment - Message-ID: <3937B271.7458A8AE@earthlink.net>    Rob Young wrote: [snip]# >         and disks are REAL cheap.   E Disk cartridges are even cheaper. Too bad they're not OVMS certified.    [snip]< >         I get it... you are at the controller doing this?   E ...or use either SET HOST/SCSI (HSZs) or HSDSA_SCRIPT (HSJs, not sure  about HSGs).  	 > And you + >         don't have Orbs in a "rotation"?     Why not? They're cheap enough.  ! > Tell me about the time when you L >         have the mirror split.. what if your primary takes a hardware hit?  3 "Triple" mirror; split leaves two members, not one.   ? >         Yes, it is a small window... what 30 minutes?  Less?    < Depends on how long it takes to shutdown the application(s).   > But still.. you D >         know when hardware takes a hit?  When you hope it doesn't.   See the above.    > > Where's the problem? > >  > Q >         Oh, I suppose the problem might lie in some of the 8 Gig volumes I have H >         and a few multi-gigabyte files... how do those 2.01 GByte Orbs# >         work in those situations?   > First, build mirror-sets. Then, build stripe-sets out of thoseF mirror-sets. Remember to mirror across targets and stripe across ports on HSZs, opposite that on HSJs.   ? Remember also that partitioned storage-sets cannot be "cloned".    C >         But now I see what you are saying.. you are using them as D >         nearline backups.  You are then rolling them off to tape?    Nope.    > If so I >         , how many tapes in your rotation?  If not, how do you go about G >         disaster recovery?   If you have one set offsite, that leaves  >         one set   
 ...or more...    > onsite... etc. > H >         Care to explain in a little more detail what you are doing andH >         how the "Orbs" are actually used?  I'm not opposed to what youP >         are doing, interested actually ... but it won't work for me I believe.  # What questions are left unanswered?   H (I'm outta town for then next nine(9) days, so it'll be a while before I can respond again.)    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems " http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:+ http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 08:13:21 -0500 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> ' Subject: Re: General discussion comment - Message-ID: <3937B2F1.F5D98FB5@earthlink.net>    Carl Perkins wrote:  [snip] > I > So why don't you just use nice cheap floppies instead. It's just 20,000  > floppies.   E Ever seen SCSI floppy drives with 2.01GB capacity and the same access $ time as any 5400 RPM SCSI hard disk?    Also, see my reply to Rob Young.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems " http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:+ http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  " Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 15:56:35 GMT* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)' Subject: Re: General discussion comment + Message-ID: <JXxOX5N8KYkp@eisner.decus.org>   g In article <3937B271.7458A8AE@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:    >>  I >>         Care to explain in a little more detail what you are doing and I >>         how the "Orbs" are actually used?  I'm not opposed to what you Q >>         are doing, interested actually ... but it won't work for me I believe.  > % > What questions are left unanswered?  > J > (I'm outta town for then next nine(9) days, so it'll be a while before I > can respond again.)  >   	 	Okay...    = 	Maybe I'm missing detail because I can't see how it is being < 	done.  You have HSJ or HSZ controllers and these "Orbs" are> 	in snap-ins for insertion into SW-300/SW-500/SW-800/ESA10000,= 	whatever.  In your case , you may be working with stripes in < 	addition to mirrorsets, doesn't matter.  But it sounds like; 	you need operator intervention to snap Orbs in and out for < 	mirror making, either that or you have the luxury of havingD 	a good deal of open slots and you yourself come in the next morning  	and do the snapping in and out.  A 	Hope I'm not being too bothersome here but it is sounding better  	on each go round :-).   				Rob    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 13:06:27 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> ' Subject: Re: General discussion comment ( Message-ID: <8h8pce$cho$1@pyrite.mv.net>  @ David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message' news:3937B271.7458A8AE@earthlink.net...    ...   % > What questions are left unanswered?  > J > (I'm outta town for then next nine(9) days, so it'll be a while before I > can respond again.)   G The main question I'd have is how many serious users out there would be B interested in using a device that, with no intent to disparage itsD attractiveness in the market for which it is designed, is a piece ofI consumer electronics rather than an industrial-strength product.  I mean, G how many people take advantage of the high density and low hardware and G media cost of consumer VCRs to back up their VMS systems onto VHS tape?   K There's plenty of product history in this particular market segment to give D one pause.  Iomega Jaz drives are notorious for both drive and mediaF failures (sometimes connected), Syquest's removable hard disk productsK likewise (popularity for sneakernet data interchange does not necessarily a K good backup product make - e.g., it seems unlikely that the shelf life of a K removable hard disk compares favorably with that of tape, let alone optical L storage), and there remain the issues of single-sourcing and long-term media support to deal with.   I Not to mention the fact that the cost of removable hard-disk storage over K time has at best matched that of fixed disks, and usually falls behind (Jaz F media were competitive on introduction, but haven't come anywhere near keeping pace over time).  L Backup approaches are in a state of flux, to be sure:  both total system andL per-disk storage capacities are increasing exponentially, backup windows areG being slammed shut, and on-line disk storage cost continues to approach K off-line tape storage cost, though it's got a ways to go before it actually K reaches it.  Breaking triple-mirror sets (Rob's favored mechanism) isn't an K unreasonable approach, but it's far from optimal (in terms of its impact on K the running system:  maintaining differential update information during the K break and then catching up after it isn't free) compared to approaches that E integrate backup considerations with the file system (one can look at F databases to get initial ideas about how to accomplish this).  And theK ability to maintain multiple on-line point-in-time 'snapshots' not just for K backup to other media but to allow users to recover from their own mistakes L without paying homage to the gods of the data center has considerable merit.  K Given that, it's not clear where removable hard disks fit into backup (save L possibly on stand-alone workstations):  recent data should remain accessibleG on line (and all its on-line versions should be protected by mirroring, K preferably in separated locations:  fixed disks are cheap), while long-term G storage should reside on removable media with a long life (and support) G expectancy (if these stored images capture the entire snapshot set that F existed at the time they were created, they provide much finer-grained6 long-term coverage than current backup mechanisms do).   - bill   >  > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems $ > http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/ > < > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:- > http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 13:41:54 +0200% From: "Safir" <homi.faris@compaq.com> 3 Subject: Re: Guide to AST and reentrant programming 6 Message-ID: <8h86hq$5tn$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>   Hi ,- You can probably start with the documentation * "Guide to writing VMS modular procedures"./ http://www.openvms.digital.com:8000/#ovmsdocset  hth, HF   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 09:43:47 -0500 " From: Earl Lakia <lakia@ipact.com>3 Subject: Re: Guide to AST and reentrant programming ) Message-ID: <3937C823.379B39B4@ipact.com>   8 Read the System Services manual on ASTs first.  Also the+ OpenVMS internals book is a good reference.      Jojimbo wrote:   > Greetings, > : > Hey, I've been around forever but never had to do such a: > totally async, ast driven, with event flags program as I< > now am working on, including decnet (non-transparent) task@ > to task communication.  I'm studying some great examples, like> > sys$examples:alpha_logger.c and drlogin from decus.  (thanks= > all)  What I really am missing is an overview of principles @ > of this type of programming.  Any suggestions for resources in) > this area would be greatly appreciated.  >  > Jim  > N > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *I > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!    --
 Earl D. Lakia 0 Senior Staff Engineer         Web: www.ipact.com4 Snail Mail:                   Email: lakia@ipact.com
 IPACT Inc.1 260 S. Campbell St.           Phone: 219-464-7212  Valparaiso, IN 46383   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 12:30:30 GMT  From: hanghien@my-deja.com: Subject: Re: How can I get rid of a process in RWMPB state) Message-ID: <8h89d7$hns$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   6 I do what you said and the process no longer shows up.' Thank you, John for your valuable help.    JH  7 In article <128801bfcc37$510dcdf0$020a0a0a@xile.realm>, ,   "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> wrote:( > John <hanghien@my-deja.company> wrote: > G > > My VS 3100 is running OpenVMS 7.1 and a process somehow ended up in  the F > > RWMPB state. I couldn't kill it and a system reboot would bring it back
 > > again., > > Does anybody know how to get rid of it ? > 9 > RWMPB means that it is waiting to write to a PAGE FILE.  > E > A. You do not have a big enough pagefiles.  Make them bigger or add  > additional pagefiles.  > G > B. Some how your page file is corrupt.  Rename, reboot minium, delete  and E > recreate, then boot normal.  Of course in the event you have enough  space,! > you can skip the second reboot.  >  > -John  > wb8tyw@qsl.network >  >     & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 13:09:45 GMT  From: hanghien@my-deja.com: Subject: Re: How can I get rid of a process in RWMPB state) Message-ID: <8h8bme$jc2$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   < I followed John Malmberg's advice and the problem got fixed.F Thank you for your additional insight and I'm going to tell the System Manager do what you said. 6 What a wonderful world with full of experts we're in !   JH    G In article <%ECZ4.10451$Zm5.688079@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, 2   "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net> wrote:B > The first thing to look at is the pagefile.    $SHOW MEMORY/FILEE > Don't worry about the "reservable", but if the number of free pages  is low,   > you need to increase the size.G > As a temporary measure, you can use sysgen to create a secondary file  and 
 > install it.  > C > Additionally, after you have run the system for at least 24 hours  under ' > normal load, you probably need to run C > autogen.  If you are not familiar with system tuning, you need to  either& > read the manual, or get system admin > type help. > ) > <hanghien@my-deja.com> wrote in message # news:8h6h4o$edv$1@nnrp1.deja.com... G > > My VS 3100 is running OpenVMS 7.1 and a process somehow ended up in  the F > > RWMPB state. I couldn't kill it and a system reboot would bring it back
 > > again., > > Does anybody know how to get rid of it ? > >  > > Thanks,  > > John > >  > > * > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > Before you buy.  >  >     & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 08:27:19 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <treahy@MMAZ.COM> = Subject: Looking for freeware .LIS to .PDF convertors for VMS ( Message-ID: <3937D257.F1BEF897@mmaz.com>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------F378DC167DE2A41009E0F54F* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   B Does anyone know of any freeware convertors that could easily bulkG convert a lot of .LIS files, with a Fortran Carriage Control Format, to F .PDF formats?  This softwre would need to be able to run on VMS 5.5-2.  	 Thanks...    Barry       & --------------F378DC167DE2A41009E0F54F- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;   name="treahy.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit / Content-Description: Card for Barry Treahy, Jr.   Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="treahy.vcf"   begin:vcard  n:Treahy, Jr.;Barry  tel;fax:480/661-7028 tel;work:480/314-1320  x-mozilla-html:TRUE  url:www.midwest-microwave.com  org:Midwest Microwave 5 adr:;;6564 South State Road;Saline;Michigan;48176;USA  version:2.1  email;internet:treahy@mmaz.com title:Vice President & CIO x-mozilla-cpt:;-18656  fn:Barry Treahy, Jr.	 end:vcard   ( --------------F378DC167DE2A41009E0F54F--   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 11:57:49 -0400 " From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> Subject: New Apache beta out: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000602115619.00eac720@24.8.96.48>  H For those of you who are interested, but don't follow the OpenVMS pages K daily, there's a new beta of the Apache webservber out. This is a VMS beta  0 of 1.3.12, and ready for your testing and abuse.  F http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvms/products/ips/apache/apache.html   and enjoy...   					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"------------------- 2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and even ;                                       teddy bears get drunk    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 02:52:57 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 5 Subject: Re: None dare call it Legacy (ISE goes live) , Message-ID: <393759C8.83149302@videotron.ca>   Rob Young wrote: > N >         Came across this article about the ISE in this week's ComputerWorld: > < > http://www.computerworld.com/home/print.nsf/all/000529E3FA   No mention of VMS.    M > http://www.success-stories.compaq.com/css/cgi-bin/cssextusr/s=display/i=690    Nobody sees those.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 03:20:50 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> 5 Subject: Re: None dare call it Legacy (ISE goes live) ( Message-ID: <8h7n2c$m11$1@pyrite.mv.net>  5 Rob Young <young_r@eisner.decus.org> wrote in message % news:2umNjFYw+R5Z@eisner.decus.org...    ...    By the@ > way, I believe they can turn around in under a second on thoseE > transactions because they have really fast devices they are writing F > to.  Certainly don't want to be held up by that pokey VMS filesystem > now would we?   L While not professing any real knowledge of their architecture, a quick checkI of OM's web site suggests that they're using Rdb rather than the VMS file  system for their product.    - bill   >  > HA!  >  > Rob  >    ------------------------------  " Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 07:34:22 GMT* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)1 Subject: None dare call it Legacy (ISE goes live) + Message-ID: <2umNjFYw+R5Z@eisner.decus.org>   E 	Came across this article about the ISE in this week's ComputerWorld:   : http://www.computerworld.com/home/print.nsf/all/000529E3FA  N "It is the first new securities exchange in the U.S. in 27 years and the first2 fully electronic options exchange in the country."   	More here:   K http://www.success-stories.compaq.com/css/cgi-bin/cssextusr/s=display/i=690   > 	What is interesting and well worth sticking out here is found- 	at the bottom of that ComputerWorld article:   K                   Unlike the traditional exchanges, the ISE centralizes and N                   streamlines all transactions because it doesn't have to deal:                   with legacy systems, according to Katz.   O                   "We're faster because of this," he said. "Our turnaround time %                   is under a second."   ? 	That my friends is what it is all about.  Because the AlphaVMS = 	cluster isn't interfacing directly with legacy systems, this @ 	baby screams.  Turnaround in under a second.  Now maybe someone> 	comes along and spoils my enthusiasm and questioning how well= 	it holds up under load... we shall see, shalln't we?  By the ? 	way, I believe they can turn around in under a second on those D 	transactions because they have really fast devices they are writingE 	to.  Certainly don't want to be held up by that pokey VMS filesystem  	now would we?   	HA!   				Rob    ------------------------------  " Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 13:31:13 GMT9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) 5 Subject: Re: None dare call it Legacy (ISE goes live) + Message-ID: <31OnNf$evDSa@eisner.decus.org>   R In article <8h7n2c$m11$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes: > 7 > Rob Young <young_r@eisner.decus.org> wrote in message ' > news:2umNjFYw+R5Z@eisner.decus.org...  >  > ...  >  > By theA >> way, I believe they can turn around in under a second on those F >> transactions because they have really fast devices they are writingG >> to.  Certainly don't want to be held up by that pokey VMS filesystem  >> now would we? > N > While not professing any real knowledge of their architecture, a quick checkK > of OM's web site suggests that they're using Rdb rather than the VMS file  > system for their product.   D I think your are confused between the VMS "Record Management System"C to which Rdb provides an alternative, and the VMS File System which C implements the ODS-1, ODS-2 and ODS-5 structure on disks.  Like all G database management systems on VMS, Rdb still uses the VMS File System. C (Even Adabas uses the VMS File System, although it tries to pretend  that it does not.)   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 12:09:05 GMT . From: Peter Moreton <petermoreton@my-deja.com>5 Subject: Re: None dare call it Legacy (ISE goes live) ) Message-ID: <8h884q$gsj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   B > While not professing any real knowledge of their architecture, a quick check F > of OM's web site suggests that they're using Rdb rather than the VMS file > system for their product.  >   < But the Rdb database files still reside on a VMS filesystem!   -- Peter Moreton, Northamptonshire,  UK.     & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 12:22:26 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> 5 Subject: Re: None dare call it Legacy (ISE goes live) ( Message-ID: <8h8mpt$89d$1@pyrite.mv.net>  L Sorry for the confusion.  Of course Rdb uses the underlying file system, butD in a manner that by-passes all of the issues relating to its defaultL performance deficiencies compared to Unix's (and hence in a manner that made# Rob's comment entirely irrelevant).    - bill  D Larry Kilgallen <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in message% news:31OnNf$evDSa@eisner.decus.org... L > In article <8h7n2c$m11$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes:  > > 9 > > Rob Young <young_r@eisner.decus.org> wrote in message ) > > news:2umNjFYw+R5Z@eisner.decus.org...  > >  > > ...  > > 
 > > By theC > >> way, I believe they can turn around in under a second on those H > >> transactions because they have really fast devices they are writingI > >> to.  Certainly don't want to be held up by that pokey VMS filesystem  > >> now would we? > > J > > While not professing any real knowledge of their architecture, a quick check H > > of OM's web site suggests that they're using Rdb rather than the VMS file > > system for their product.  > F > I think your are confused between the VMS "Record Management System"E > to which Rdb provides an alternative, and the VMS File System which E > implements the ODS-1, ODS-2 and ODS-5 structure on disks.  Like all I > database management systems on VMS, Rdb still uses the VMS File System. E > (Even Adabas uses the VMS File System, although it tries to pretend  > that it does not.)   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 12:59:36 +0100   From: steven.reece@quintiles.comJ Subject: Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire)> Message-ID: <802568F2.0041F477.00@qedilc01.qedi.quintiles.com>  K The comments from Hoff are valid - this is an excellent forum to use to let P Compaq and VMS Engineering in particular know what features we rely upon in VMS,2 what we'd like to see added or improved and so on.  G There are a number of specific issues that I have at the moment though.   C The tide of OpenVMS is dead has not turned yet.  I was talking to a K representative of a recruitment company earlier this week who believes that O OpenVMS is dead or is on the way.  She was very surprised that there is so much H good work being done at Compaq to reverse this trend.  I take this as anK indicator that the companies which she deals with are moving away from VMS. M Perhaps the new marketing materials should be send out in paper copy a little N more widely (not just to existing customers who are still heavily committed toP VMS) but to companies with only one or two small systems in a bigger environmentN (the small fish in the big pond).  Also, maybe a few contacts with appropriateP recruiters could be made.  This probably sounds irrelevant given that their workM is generated by people wanting to move jobs or employers wanting to take more M people on, but on the other side of the coin an employer who has spent months L trying to find someone to take a key role should not be persuaded to move toO another platform because they can't meet their staffing requirements on "a dead N platform that everyone is leaving behind".  It may also lead to recruiters notO getting their candidates to drop VMS from their CVs in favour of newer "flavour  of the month" expertise.  L I would like to see a complete "Porting to VMS" manual.  This would probablyO also be of use to ISVs who can't get enough VMS resource to be able to tackle a ) port of their software to the VMS market.   O The mention of host-based InfoServer interests me too - I would like to be able P to leave the VMS documentation CDs in my InfoServer full-time, but we just don'tH have enough CD drives around the place to be able to do it.  Things likeO software installs on hardware that doesn't have a CD drive locally often get in  the way.  O My fear, as I've stated before and still seems to be the case, is that although F VMS Engineering is working hard to give customers new developments andG improvements and guaranteed support for x number of years and the other O excellent stuff that they're doing, there are significant numbers of people out K there in "User Land" that won't believe that there's any committment to VMS O anyway and it's all just a big show by Compaq before they pull the rug out from P under all of their customers.  I know that's not true.  Hoff and the rest of theP VMS team (from Rich Marcello downwards) know that it's not true.  It's just thatN humans have long memories and once they have been bitten they tend to remember: that above all the good things that have happened to them.  O A pet peeve at the moment is the issue of Prior Version Support.  The UK CSC is O apparently going to support VMS v7.1, 7.1-1h1 and 7.1-1h2 without the backup of M VMS Engineering following the 1st of July 2000.  I used to get written notice N that these changes were occurring (when something went from mainstream supportL to PVS) but now I don't.  Neither have I had the DSN mail message to confirmJ that the change is happening.  Neither have I had the letter that has beenJ requested from Compaq, signed by someone in authority, to confirm what theK support situation is.  I _know_ from a presentation and conversation at the M DECUS Europe conference what the situation is for Engineering Support (thanks N Hoff for bringing it to my attention) but my company want something in writingN from Compaq that they can, if necessary, refer to and say "well you told us on" this date that you would so JFDI".P It could always be that such a document is on its way to me now, in which case IG apologise for the rant.  If not then when, I wonder, will someone JFDI?    Steve.   Hoff wrote: I >>>  What I would rather see more of in the newsgroup are comments on the C   increasingly available OpenVMS marketing materials and increasing E   OpenVMS references within Compaq materials, mention that OpenVMS is D   being regularly featured in many of the newer Compaq materials andE   forums, mention of the level of support and interest in OpenVMS and I   OpenVMS customers by Michael Capellas (he's visited with a wide variety @   of OpenVMS customers), mention of the new engineering work andB   customer-specific changes that are going into OpenVMS (includingD   mention of the work targeting existing and new ISVs and customers,C   and the OpenVMS engineering project targeting improvements in the 0   ease of porting of applications *to* OpenVMS).  H >>>  A number of members of OpenVMS Engineering have spent a non-trivialE   amount of engineering time and effort visiting with and taking very F   detailed looks at OpenVMS at specific customer sites, and at what weE   can do to meet (or to exceed) customer requirements.  Some of these F   sites are large customers, and some are small customers with unusualG   or extreme loads.  (I've visited various customer sites over the past H   two years, as have a large number of other OpenVMS engineers.)  As forF   improvements resulting from this effort, we have recently engineeredG   ways reduce certain heavy file-locking operations to a fraction their F   former levels, and a way to significantly reduce DLM packet activityH   during certain criticial cluster operations.  (These are certainly notG   headline-grabbing new features, but these improvements can be central 9   to leading-edge and large-scale customer environments.)   K >>>  What I would like to see is suggestions of what we can add to OpenVMS, H   and what OpenVMS features are at the core of your business.  (I have aE   good idea of at least some of the existing or desired new features: I   clustering, host-based CD-R, host-based InfoServer, Apache, Netscape V6 I   or Mozilla, SSL, DHCP client, Oracle databases, scholastic licenses and G   hobbyist licenses for non-DECUS geographies, new file system support, F   etc.  (Though -- like most every other software-related organizationG   around -- we do unfortunately have more work than we can ever get to. E   This is one reason why ISVs and business partners are key players.)   L >>>  I'm in the midst of writing a whitepaper that contains and introductionF   to OpenVMS programming -- I am hoping that I can eventually get this5   extended out into a full porting-to-OpenVMS manual.   L >>>  Now if y'all will excuse me, I have a database oddity to resolve, (yet)I   another OpenVMS release to prepare for, presentations to create for the J   upcoming Dallas event, some ported code that needs rather better OpenVMSJ   integration, discussions of a management interface and the potential forI   a control program, a book to update, the aforementioned whitepaper, and $   more than enough other tasks...<<<   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 15:35:31 GMT  From: d.webb@mdx.ac.ukB Subject: Re: Prior version support was (Re: OpenVMS commentaries )) Message-ID: <8h8k81$qa1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   > In article <802568F2.0041F477.00@qedilc01.qedi.quintiles.com>,#   steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:  >  >  > G > A pet peeve at the moment is the issue of Prior Version Support.  The 	 UK CSC is G > apparently going to support VMS v7.1, 7.1-1h1 and 7.1-1h2 without the 	 backup of H > VMS Engineering following the 1st of July 2000.  I used to get written noticeH > that these changes were occurring (when something went from mainstream support F > to PVS) but now I don't.  Neither have I had the DSN mail message to confirm G > that the change is happening.  Neither have I had the letter that has  beenH > requested from Compaq, signed by someone in authority, to confirm what the F > support situation is.  I _know_ from a presentation and conversation at theG > DECUS Europe conference what the situation is for Engineering Support  (thanks H > Hoff for bringing it to my attention) but my company want something in writing E > from Compaq that they can, if necessary, refer to and say "well you 
 told us on$ > this date that you would so JFDI".E > It could always be that such a document is on its way to me now, in  which case IC > apologise for the rant.  If not then when, I wonder, will someone  JFDI?  >  > Steve. >   F My memory may well be faulty but when Prior Version support first came out I thought it was :-   G We will support the current main version and the preceding main version D but you will have to pay for this thing called Prior version support for earlier versions.   E Now it seems to be we will support the current version and get you to B pay extra for support on all previous versions after a short grace  period for the previous version.  F In a University environment the times you can upgrade a student systemF to a new version of the OS are very limited (ie just during the summerE vacation period). If for some reason (eg software won't work with new 0 version yet) then you have to wait another year.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 12:19:00 +0200 < From: Georges SZAFRANSKI <szafranski@lutece.evt.cpqcorp.net>( Subject: Re: Problem with resource locks6 Message-ID: <3937A634.4CA82919@lutece.evt.cpqcorp.net>  G > Just by the title, it must be massively out of date. How long has the N > EXPEDIATE flag existed? Practically every major (and some minor) VMS releaseI > has modified the logic behind lock tree mastering and remastering. Nah,  > an update is surely required.  > 
 >         Jan   D Just by the title, VAxcluster principles chap 6 deal with principlesA sustaining the DLM, and a lot of things are, for me, still valid.   C If you need some more recent litterature, IDS have been updated for D OpenVMS V7. At the end of the chapter 4 you can find pointers to theA relevant source modules, which remain the ultimate documentation.    OpenVMS Alpha Internals  ISBN 1-55558-156-0   -Georges   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 13:49:04 +0200 < From: Georges SZAFRANSKI <szafranski@lutece.evt.cpqcorp.net>( Subject: Re: Problem with resource locks5 Message-ID: <3937BB50.2754DDE@lutece.evt.cpqcorp.net>    > VMS seems to process allF > requests in the conversion queue before looking at the waiting queue  F Yes you're right, this is documented in the programming concept manualE Alpha / VAX 7.2 chap 17.2.7 Concepts of Lock Conversion. (Also in the  VAXcluster principles ...)   -Georges   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 14:34:13 +0200" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>0 Subject: Re: Remote Print From Vax/VMS to AS/400( Message-ID: <8h8951$s7c$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  @ If the AS/400 runs SNA (or VTAM for the AS/400) then the VMS/SNAJ product will do what you want. Alternatively, you could run an IP stack onK both machines and use lpd. An interesting option may be to write a symbiont ? yourself to connect to the print spool subsystem of the AS/400.   
 Hans Vlems  L Walter G. Bennett heeft geschreven in bericht <39347960.9ACCE846@you.com>...D >I am trying to send reports from a Vax computer to an AS/400 output >queue. C >I was able to send a report to the printer queue but was unable to H >display or print the report.  The error I received on the AS/400 statedE >that the file was ASCII meant for a PC Printer.  The report was sent G >using a DCL PRINT command that contained the system name and the queue  >name. > C >Is there another /PARAMETER that I should include to translate the  >report to the proper format?  > 
 >Walt Bennett  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 06:00:24 -0700 ? From: Mike Price <mike.priceNOmiSPAM@littlewoods.co.uk.invalid>  Subject: SImple graphs fro VMS9 Message-ID: <031b6fd2.b8662d97@usw-ex0106-046.remarq.com>   > It would be really useful to us if we had something that could= draw simpel line graphs from VMS - prefferably something that : could be sent data at intervals (via mailboxs, ip sockets,: DecNet etc.) and would produce a graph continually or when
 requested.: The graph could be on a VT terminal or a decwindows screen  9 Does anyone know of anyhthing simple that can do this. We < definatly don't need 3D, surfaces or anything complex - just8 something that can take output from a piece of DCL (or a! program) and keep a pretty graph.    Thanks  
 Mike Price    L * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *G The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 14:10:41 GMT 1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> " Subject: Re: SImple graphs fro VMS2 Message-ID: <3937C044.55ADD0C1@clarityconnect.com>  A I don't specifically know of anything that meets your restrictive F requirements.  But the MONITOR data format is documented and it'd be a3 SMOP to create a data collector and transfer agent.    Mike Price wrote:  > @ > It would be really useful to us if we had something that could? > draw simpel line graphs from VMS - prefferably something that < > could be sent data at intervals (via mailboxs, ip sockets,< > DecNet etc.) and would produce a graph continually or when > requested.< > The graph could be on a VT terminal or a decwindows screen > ; > Does anyone know of anyhthing simple that can do this. We > > definatly don't need 3D, surfaces or anything complex - just: > something that can take output from a piece of DCL (or a# > program) and keep a pretty graph.  >  > Thanks >  > Mike Price > N > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *I > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!    --  D Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 12:04:24 GMT . From: Peter Moreton <petermoreton@my-deja.com>$ Subject: SNA & PSI support on DSV-11) Message-ID: <8h87s2$gpl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   C I'm currently specc'ing a VAX configuration for an application that G runs both X.25 and SNA APPC LU6.2 protocols. Currently we run these out B of DEMSA microservers, but to make the new configuration easier toD support, I'd like to run these synchronous protocols via DSV-11 dualE port sync cards. However, I cannot find any documentation on protocol A support for the DSV, I have a vague recolection that they did not 2 support SNA last time I used these (5 years ago!).  D Can anyone confirm, or point me to the SNA SPD, if it is on the web?  F Another thing, I don't currently have access to the LURT License UsageG Requirements Table. Can someone please check for me to confirm that the E VAX 4000 model 105a is in the same license band as the model 100a. (I A am planning to move the app from the 100a to the 105a, and re-use 	 licenses)    Thanks.    -- Peter Moreton, Northamptonshire,  UK.     & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 15:01:35 +0200" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>( Subject: Re: SNA & PSI support on DSV-11( Message-ID: <8h8aob$31f$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  9 The VAX4105a uses the same license points as the VAX4100. B If you happen to have VMS running on it, try $ SHOW LICENSE/CHARGE5 and it'll give you a list of required license points. D I have no idea about the DSV-11, but wasn't the DSW41/42 intended to do SNA? 
 Hans VlemsJ Peter Moreton heeft geschreven in bericht <8h87s2$gpl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>...D >I'm currently specc'ing a VAX configuration for an application thatH >runs both X.25 and SNA APPC LU6.2 protocols. Currently we run these outC >of DEMSA microservers, but to make the new configuration easier to E >support, I'd like to run these synchronous protocols via DSV-11 dual F >port sync cards. However, I cannot find any documentation on protocolB >support for the DSV, I have a vague recolection that they did not3 >support SNA last time I used these (5 years ago!).  > E >Can anyone confirm, or point me to the SNA SPD, if it is on the web?  > G >Another thing, I don't currently have access to the LURT License Usage H >Requirements Table. Can someone please check for me to confirm that theF >VAX 4000 model 105a is in the same license band as the model 100a. (IB >am planning to move the app from the 100a to the 105a, and re-use
 >licenses) >  >Thanks. >  >--  >Peter Moreton,  >Northamptonshire, >UK. >  > ' >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/  >Before you buy.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 09:56:21 +0200> From: "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr>7 Subject: SWCC problem to manage a RaidArray 310 (HSZ20) 2 Message-ID: <8h7p7p$1u3$1@s2.feed.news.oleane.net>  G Here is a problem while trying to use storageworks command console v2.1 2 to manage a RaidArray 310 on a vms 7.1-2 Alpha PWS  D I can first connect from the SWCC windows client to th agent on VMS.* SWCC discovers the two disks of the RA310.  # What is done on the client side ...    | Command Console  |   10.1.90.76 |     dka100 |       Storage window |  |         error pop-up window ' |         | (title bar) "Program Error" D |         | HszWindow.exe has generated errors and will be closed by9 |         | Windows. You will need to restart the program ) |         | An error log is being created  |  |       CLI window |  |         error pop-up window ( |         | (title bar) "Applet manager") |         | the server threw an exception     7 Here is the content of [SWCC$AGENT]SWCC_STARTUP.LOG ...   # | Starting the  SWCC Agent image...  | 4 | Jun  2 09:11:15 2000 Agent Version: 2.1 (Build 40) | Agent Version: 2.1 (Build 40)  |  | Jun  2 09:15:04 20004 | WARNING:  - socketRead(): connection reset by peer | (SP_SOCKET: socketRead)  |  | Jun  2 09:15:04 20002 | WARNING: Validation failed - Unauthorized client/ | (sx9007,access level: -2); connection refused  | (SP_TCP: ClientConnect)  |     7 But the configuration file for SWCC indicate the client  is properly authorized :  7 Client host       Notification policy      Access level 7 -----------       -------------------      ------------ , 10.1.90.07        3                        2, sx9007            3                        2  8 0 = No Error Notification                  0 = No Access: 1 = Notification via a TCP/IP Socket       1 = Show Access9 2 = Notification via the SNMP protocol     2 = Set Access ) 3 = Notification via both TCP/IP and SNMP   
 Any idea ?   Jean-Franois Marchal  X9000 - LYON   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 16:33:42 +0200, From: "Maria M" <maria.menicacci@compaq.com>; Subject: Re: SWCC problem to manage a RaidArray 310 (HSZ20) 6 Message-ID: <8h8gjq$9in$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  ! Is 10.1.90.07 sx9007 IP address ? L If yes, the order of view clients display seems to indicate that you entered$ the address first and then the name.E From the log, it seems that the client presents itself with the name. D Did you restart the agent after you entered the authorized clients ?L Particularly, did you stop and start the agent after you add the client name ? , Seems obvious, but if not, could you do it ? Maria.  I "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> wrote in message , news:8h7p7p$1u3$1@s2.feed.news.oleane.net...I > Here is a problem while trying to use storageworks command console v2.1 4 > to manage a RaidArray 310 on a vms 7.1-2 Alpha PWS > F > I can first connect from the SWCC windows client to th agent on VMS., > SWCC discovers the two disks of the RA310. > % > What is done on the client side ...  >  > | Command Console  > |   10.1.90.76 > |     dka100 > |       Storage window > |  > |         error pop-up window ) > |         | (title bar) "Program Error" F > |         | HszWindow.exe has generated errors and will be closed by; > |         | Windows. You will need to restart the program + > |         | An error log is being created  > |  > |       CLI window > |  > |         error pop-up window * > |         | (title bar) "Applet manager"+ > |         | the server threw an exception  >  > 9 > Here is the content of [SWCC$AGENT]SWCC_STARTUP.LOG ...  > % > | Starting the  SWCC Agent image...  > | 6 > | Jun  2 09:11:15 2000 Agent Version: 2.1 (Build 40)! > | Agent Version: 2.1 (Build 40)  > |  > | Jun  2 09:15:04 20006 > | WARNING:  - socketRead(): connection reset by peer > | (SP_SOCKET: socketRead)  > |  > | Jun  2 09:15:04 20004 > | WARNING: Validation failed - Unauthorized client1 > | (sx9007,access level: -2); connection refused  > | (SP_TCP: ClientConnect)  > |  >  > 9 > But the configuration file for SWCC indicate the client  > is properly authorized : > 9 > Client host       Notification policy      Access level 9 > -----------       -------------------      ------------ . > 10.1.90.07        3                        2. > sx9007            3                        2 > : > 0 = No Error Notification                  0 = No Access< > 1 = Notification via a TCP/IP Socket       1 = Show Access; > 2 = Notification via the SNMP protocol     2 = Set Access + > 3 = Notification via both TCP/IP and SNMP  >  > Any idea ? >  > Jean-Franois Marchal  > X9000 - LYON >  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:13:51 +0200> From: "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr>; Subject: Re: SWCC problem to manage a RaidArray 310 (HSZ20) 2 Message-ID: <8h8mci$fhr$1@s2.feed.news.oleane.net>  7 "Maria M" <maria.menicacci@compaq.com> wrote in message 0 news:8h8gjq$9in$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com...# > Is 10.1.90.07 sx9007 IP address ? F > If yes, the order of view clients display seems to indicate that you entered & > the address first and then the name.G > From the log, it seems that the client presents itself with the name. F > Did you restart the agent after you entered the authorized clients ?I > Particularly, did you stop and start the agent after you add the client  name > ? . > Seems obvious, but if not, could you do it ? > Maria.  E Yes I did ... I will try to restart the agent later in the afternoon.   
 Jean-Franois          > K > "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> wrote in message . > news:8h7p7p$1u3$1@s2.feed.news.oleane.net...K > > Here is a problem while trying to use storageworks command console v2.1 6 > > to manage a RaidArray 310 on a vms 7.1-2 Alpha PWS > > H > > I can first connect from the SWCC windows client to th agent on VMS.. > > SWCC discovers the two disks of the RA310. > > ' > > What is done on the client side ...  > >  > > | Command Console  > > |   10.1.90.76 > > |     dka100 > > |       Storage window > > | ! > > |         error pop-up window + > > |         | (title bar) "Program Error" H > > |         | HszWindow.exe has generated errors and will be closed by= > > |         | Windows. You will need to restart the program - > > |         | An error log is being created  > > |  > > |       CLI window > > | ! > > |         error pop-up window , > > |         | (title bar) "Applet manager"- > > |         | the server threw an exception  > >  > > ; > > Here is the content of [SWCC$AGENT]SWCC_STARTUP.LOG ...  > > ' > > | Starting the  SWCC Agent image...  > > | 8 > > | Jun  2 09:11:15 2000 Agent Version: 2.1 (Build 40)# > > | Agent Version: 2.1 (Build 40)  > > |  > > | Jun  2 09:15:04 20008 > > | WARNING:  - socketRead(): connection reset by peer > > | (SP_SOCKET: socketRead)  > > |  > > | Jun  2 09:15:04 20006 > > | WARNING: Validation failed - Unauthorized client3 > > | (sx9007,access level: -2); connection refused  > > | (SP_TCP: ClientConnect)  > > |  > >  > > ; > > But the configuration file for SWCC indicate the client  > > is properly authorized : > > ; > > Client host       Notification policy      Access level ; > > -----------       -------------------      ------------ 0 > > 10.1.90.07        3                        20 > > sx9007            3                        2 > > < > > 0 = No Error Notification                  0 = No Access> > > 1 = Notification via a TCP/IP Socket       1 = Show Access= > > 2 = Notification via the SNMP protocol     2 = Set Access - > > 3 = Notification via both TCP/IP and SNMP  > >  > > Any idea ? > >  > > Jean-Franois Marchal  > > X9000 - LYON > >  > >  >  >    ------------------------------  " Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 07:54:46 GMT* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)2 Subject: Tru64 poised to open source DLM, AFS, LVM+ Message-ID: <LBt+GTjKObga@eisner.decus.org>    Here's one for you:   B http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2580352,00.html  H "A source close to the discussions said the first component likely to beN released is the Distributed Lock Manager, which is an integral part of Tru64'sH clustering. Developers said other interesting parts of Tru64 include itsH clustering, Advanced File System and Logical Volume Manager components."  = 	Personally, I believe it is a brilliant strategy.  Those DLM > 	calls will become industry standard on the Unix side assuring= 	that Tru64 integrates with Linux better than any other Linux = 	(caution: big assumption being the DLM lock stock and barrel  	gets incorporated)   : 	Interesting closing paragraphs that are rather laughable:  N   "Digital, for example, provided access to the source code for VMS to some ofE its customers, but users had problems getting Digital to make fixes.    4 	[Uh... anyone can purchase the source listings at a= 	reasonable price as discussed in comp.os.vms more than once]   D   "I've delved deep into the bowels of the VMS [clustering code] andL found a number of stunning bugs that I never could get Digital to fix," said5 Bert Driehuis, a systems administrator in Amsterdam.    K   But with the source code available, users will have enough information to J start supporting themselves -- one of the attractions of other open-source! operating systems, such as Linux.    	--   > 	Fascinating.  This sysadmin in the Netherlands found stunning< 	bigs in VMS clustering code that Digital didn't fix.  Whoa!A 	That's interesting.  Didn't effect the last heavily used cluster K 	I was on (6 nodes up over a year before we brought it down for upgrade).   G 	Nor the one I currently am seeing (up many months).  One cluster I was B 	involved in 2 years ago had a crashing issue and it turned out toD 	be a disk driver issue... certainly not "buggy clustering code" and 	fairly solid after that.   B 	Let me guess, this guy is talking about VMS 5.0, isn't he?  Stink* 	like he is mentioning is obviously dated.  A 	Open source is the "greatest" because everyone is looking at the > 	code and they can make changes to it.  Not what I want to do.A 	Don't get me wrong, it's working.  But to imply total OS control @ 	is broken is laughable.  I'm sure IBM isn't getting set to open? 	source OS/390 any time soon and it is running quite well also,  	last I heard.     				Rob    ------------------------------    Date: 02 Jun 2000 10:23:10 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> ( Subject: Re: Unneeed RMS overhead with CH Message-ID: <y41z2ga3v5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  4 mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:  4 > (the default RMS /EXTEND is very wrong for gunzip)  N So add an IFDEF VMS to gnuzip to do an initial allocation for the result file,$ and set CBT. This should be trivial.   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 10:55:03 -0400 + From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>  Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?1 Message-ID: <39379287.2A6DAB4A@trailing-edge.com>    David J. Dachtera wrote:8 > I got a code for the download. Will try real soon now. > I > If my "Affordable OpenVMS BOF" gets accepted for CETS-2000, and if Rich C > Marcello can be there, how 'bout we demo it for him at that time? B > (Remember to have it on a Compaq PC so no one bitches about it.)  C Maybe I'm just being dense, but how does a VAX emulator on an Intel @ platform make anything more affordable?  Let's add up the costs,8 not including a VMS license, for a 4 VUP implementation:   The non-emulator way:  	VAXStation 3100/38:$35  	1 Gig SCSI drive:  $35  	Console terminal:  $30 	 			  ----  	Total:		  $100    The emulator way:  	500 MHz cheapo Pentium: $600 # 	Windows 95/98/NT:       $100-$500. < 	Emulator license:       unknown, but based on the Charon-11, 			        pricing probably a few thousand $ 			        ---- * 	Total:		        Several thousand dollars.  D It sounds to me like the only way the VAX emulator makes sense is ifD the IT boss insists on spending lots of money on the Intel platform,C out of an irrational fear of older reliable DEC hardware.  And this E is all assuming that a VMS license will be available at any price for 
 the emulator.    Tim.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 17:22:20 GMT 3 From: Eric Dittman <dittman@narnia.int.dittman.net>  Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?? Message-ID: <g3SZ4.43387$v7.1950732@news-west.usenetserver.com>   > In comp.org.decus Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote: : David J. Dachtera wrote:9 :> I got a code for the download. Will try real soon now.  :>  J :> If my "Affordable OpenVMS BOF" gets accepted for CETS-2000, and if RichD :> Marcello can be there, how 'bout we demo it for him at that time?C :> (Remember to have it on a Compaq PC so no one bitches about it.)   E : Maybe I'm just being dense, but how does a VAX emulator on an Intel B : platform make anything more affordable?  Let's add up the costs,: : not including a VMS license, for a 4 VUP implementation:   : The non-emulator way:  : 	VAXStation 3100/38:$35  : 	1 Gig SCSI drive:  $35  : 	Console terminal:  $30  : 			  ----  : 	Total:		  $100    : The emulator way:  : 	500 MHz cheapo Pentium: $600 % : 	Windows 95/98/NT:       $100-$500. > : 	Emulator license:       unknown, but based on the Charon-11. : 			        pricing probably a few thousand $ : 			        ---- , : 	Total:		        Several thousand dollars.  F : It sounds to me like the only way the VAX emulator makes sense is ifF : the IT boss insists on spending lots of money on the Intel platform,E : out of an irrational fear of older reliable DEC hardware.  And this G : is all assuming that a VMS license will be available at any price for  : the emulator.   C What you don't have listed for the non-emulator way is the hardware > support costs for the old VS3100.  If 24/7 hardware support is@ required that $100 VS3100/38 is going to get expensive fast.  IfA you can convince management and/or the customer that having a few B spare units around to swap out is acceptable then you will stil beC able to save quite a bit of money (heck, five total VS3100/38 units @ at $100/each would still cost less than the base 500MHz PC), but@ sometimes you have to have a support contract to satisfy certain/ requirements set by management or the customer.  --   Eric Dittman dittman@dittman.net    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 16:39:30 GMT ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>  Subject: Re: VAX VMS 7.2 Bug? 9 Message-ID: <6rRZ4.8589$dK2.295983@news20.bellglobal.com>    VAX VMS 7.2 Update (2000.06.02)    Folks,  E I was finally able to find some time to address this problem. I'm 90% D certain that there's a bug in "VAX VMS 7.2 BACKUP" from "VAX VMS 7.2D UPDATE_1" patch forward. (only the programmer would be 100% certain)  K The original "VAX VMS 7.2 BACKUP" from the CD-ROM seems to work and so does  "Alpha VMS 7.2 BACKUP".    My Tests ======J Last night I decided to do a new installation of "VAX VMS 7.2" from CD-ROMJ onto a spare disk. This would yield a system disk that had no questionableK alias or back link problems. Next, I booted the new system disk, then did a = hot-backup of it to a third disk. Everything worked properly.   H Next, I rebooted the original "VAX VMS 7.2" (which contains a new BACKUPH image from VAX_UPDATE_1) and then repeated the previous backup operationI from the new system disk to a third disk. The backup failed with the same 9 failure mode mentioned previously in this message thread.    Summary  ======; Maybe OpenVMS Engineering at Compaq can now look into this.   L p.s. If memory serves; I think we installed the "VAX VMS 7.2 UPDATE_1" patchD because we were getting incomplete backups (interrupted by an access1 violation when ever the /JOURNAL switch was used)   
 Neil Rieck* Kitchener(New Berlin?)/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 16:50:52 GMT ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> 8 Subject: Re: VAX VMS 7.2 Bug?  ;  backup/image/(no)alias: Message-ID: <MBRZ4.12278$uw6.271869@news20.bellglobal.com>   VAX VMS 7.2 Update (2000.06.02)    Folks,  E I was finally able to find some time to address this problem. I'm 90% D certain that there's a bug in "VAX VMS 7.2 BACKUP" from "VAX VMS 7.2D UPDATE_1" patch forward. (only the programmer would be 100% certain)  K The original "VAX VMS 7.2 BACKUP" from the CD-ROM seems to work and so does  "Alpha VMS 7.2 BACKUP".    My Tests ======J Last night I decided to do a new installation of "VAX VMS 7.2" from CD-ROMJ onto a spare disk. This would yield a system disk that had no questionableK alias or back link problems. Next, I booted the new system disk, then did a = hot-backup of it to a third disk. Everything worked properly.   H Next, I rebooted the original "VAX VMS 7.2" (which contains a new BACKUPH image from VAX_UPDATE_1) and then repeated the previous backup operationI from the new system disk to a third disk. The backup failed with the same 9 failure mode mentioned previously in this message thread.    Summary  ======; Maybe OpenVMS Engineering at Compaq can now look into this.   L p.s. If memory serves; I think we installed the "VAX VMS 7.2 UPDATE_1" patchD because we were getting incomplete backups (interrupted by an access1 violation when ever the /JOURNAL switch was used)   
 Neil Rieck* Kitchener(New Berlin?)/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 09:59:10 GMT ) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> 6 Subject: Re: VAX VMS 7.2 Bug? ; backup/image/(no)alias: Message-ID: <OzLZ4.11472$uw6.250271@news20.bellglobal.com>  = Robert Deininger <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in message $ news:B55BD86D-3CCDE@165.247.24.45...I > On Wed, May 31, 2000 10:20 PM, Neil Rieck <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> wrote:  > >VAX VMS 7.2 Update  > H > >1. I do a hot "BACKUP/IMAGE/IGNORE=(INTER,NOBACK)/INIT" from DSA0: to > >$1$DIA50:L > >1a. this is from an RF35 to an RZ26; (we're trying to migrate to a larger > >disk) > J > Why do you expect to get a good copy when you use /ignore=interlock?  IfG > you are running standalone backup, or booted from a CD or a different I > disk, you can have exclusive access to the source disk.  Then you don't F > need /ignore=interlock.  (But I don't think the current symptoms are > due to this.)  > E You are right. The best way to do a backup is in standalone mode with D everyone off the system. However, our system needs to be up 7x24 andI therefore hot backups are the only practical solution available. Also, if K I'm not mistaken, there is no standalone backup available for VMS on Alpha. J One thing we could do is drop a system disk shadow set member, use it as aF source for a backup, then return it to the shadow set upon completion.  L BTW, "/IGNORE=(INTERLOCK)" copies a file as-is even if it is open for write.K Probably 90% of the time this is no big deal on the system disk.We've tried H quite a few test BACKUP restore operations on a test platform and I onlyJ remember a single time when a file was not useable. (I think it was one ofL the QUEUE manager database files; we just stopped the queue manager, createdF a new database, then created queue entries from a DCL script) (after aK restore you may want to do this anyway because you'll have a backup of many 0 print and batch queue jobs for a time long past)  
 Neil Rieck* Kitchener(New Berlin?)/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2000 11:30:55 GMT * From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)6 Subject: Re: VAX VMS 7.2 Bug? ; backup/image/(no)alias. Message-ID: <8h85tf$hu0$1@info.service.rug.nl>  G In article <OzLZ4.11472$uw6.250271@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Neil Rieck"  <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:    K >> Why do you expect to get a good copy when you use /ignore=interlock?  If H >> you are running standalone backup, or booted from a CD or a differentJ >> disk, you can have exclusive access to the source disk.  Then you don'tG >> need /ignore=interlock.  (But I don't think the current symptoms are  >> due to this.) > F >You are right. The best way to do a backup is in standalone mode withE >everyone off the system. However, our system needs to be up 7x24 and J >therefore hot backups are the only practical solution available. Also, ifL >I'm not mistaken, there is no standalone backup available for VMS on Alpha.  + Because booting from the CD is much better.   K >One thing we could do is drop a system disk shadow set member, use it as a G >source for a backup, then return it to the shadow set upon completion.   " Sounds the way to go in your case.  M >BTW, "/IGNORE=(INTERLOCK)" copies a file as-is even if it is open for write. A >Probably 90% of the time this is no big deal on the system disk.   " Right, mostly log files and so on.   ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2000 06:41 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) 6 Subject: Re: VAX VMS 7.2 Bug? ; backup/image/(no)alias, Message-ID: <2JUN200006411993@gerg.tamu.edu>  - "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes... F }You are right. The best way to do a backup is in standalone mode withE }everyone off the system. However, our system needs to be up 7x24 and J }therefore hot backups are the only practical solution available. Also, ifL }I'm not mistaken, there is no standalone backup available for VMS on Alpha.  H It doesn't need one. You can boot VMS from the CD - its a complete basicD VMS setup without any page or swap file. Shut down. Pop CD in drive.4 Boot from CD. Run backup. Shut down. Boot normally.   K }One thing we could do is drop a system disk shadow set member, use it as a G }source for a backup, then return it to the shadow set upon completion.  }Neil Rieck    That is the prefered method.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 09:13:18 -0400   From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com6 Subject: Re: VAX VMS 7.2 Bug? ; backup/image/(no)alias4 Message-ID: <C22568F2.0048582C.00@jklh22.valmet.com>   /To:  Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com  /cc:7 /Subject: Re: VAX VMS 7.2 Bug? ; backup/image/(no)alias  / . /"Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes...G /}You are right. The best way to do a backup is in standalone mode with F /}everyone off the system. However, our system needs to be up 7x24 andK /}therefore hot backups are the only practical solution available. Also, if M /}I'm not mistaken, there is no standalone backup available for VMS on Alpha.  / I /It doesn't need one. You can boot VMS from the CD - its a complete basic E /VMS setup without any page or swap file. Shut down. Pop CD in drive. 4 /Boot from CD. Run backup. Shut down. Boot normally. / L /}One thing we could do is drop a system disk shadow set member, use it as aH /}source for a backup, then return it to the shadow set upon completion. /}Neil Rieck /  /That is the prefered method.   M I would have thought that adding a third member to the system disk shadowset, J then dropping it, would be better, but that still begs the question of howL you get a quiescent system shadowset without a shutdown.  I think standalone1 is the only "prefered" (fully supported?) method.    -Norm  / 	 /--- Carl  /    ------------------------------   Date: 2 Jun 2000 09:52:06 -0400 4 From: "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com>6 Subject: Re: VAX VMS 7.2 Bug? ; backup/image/(no)alias, Message-ID: <B55D3448-244DD2@165.247.25.234>  H On Fri, Jun 2, 2000 7:30 AM, Phillip Helbig <helbig@astro.rug.nl> wrote:H >In article <OzLZ4.11472$uw6.250271@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Neil Rieck"  ><n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes:  >  >> Also, if F >>I'm not mistaken, there is no standalone backup available for VMS on Alpha. > , >Because booting from the CD is much better.  J There _is_ a standalone backup on Alpha, but it has a different name.  YouD can (and probably should) use the CD to install a "minimum VMS" ontoK an alternate disk.  Then you can boot off the alternate disk and run backup G and other DCL commands, with exclusive access to your main system disk. H Disks are almost always faster than CDs (especially the DMA-doesn't-workG IDE CD drives on some newer workstations), and you have an extra chance @ to recover when your CD drive dies at the worst possible moment.   ---------------------------  Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 15:16:48 GMT  From: d.webb@mdx.ac.uk6 Subject: Re: VAX VMS 7.2 Bug? ; backup/image/(no)alias) Message-ID: <8h8j4f$pb7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   , In article <2JUN200006411993@gerg.tamu.edu>,*   carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote:/ > "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca> writes... H > }You are right. The best way to do a backup is in standalone mode withG > }everyone off the system. However, our system needs to be up 7x24 and C > }therefore hot backups are the only practical solution available.  Also, ifG > }I'm not mistaken, there is no standalone backup available for VMS on  Alpha. > D > It doesn't need one. You can boot VMS from the CD - its a complete basic F > VMS setup without any page or swap file. Shut down. Pop CD in drive.5 > Boot from CD. Run backup. Shut down. Boot normally.  > H > }One thing we could do is drop a system disk shadow set member, use it as a= > }source for a backup, then return it to the shadow set upon  completion. 
 > }Neil Rieck  >  > That is the prefered method. >   G My understanding was that dropping a member out of a non-quiescent disk @ such as the system disk and backing that up would be pretty much0 equivalent to doing the backup/ignore=interlock.  E For what it's worth I have been backing up and restoring system disks B for the last 12/13 years using backup/ignore=interlock without anyF problems. Bar one occasion where I lost the forms information from the queue database.   
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University  
 > --- Carl >     & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 02:19:05 -0700 ? From: Mike Price <mike.priceNOmiSPAM@littlewoods.co.uk.invalid>  Subject: Re: VEST / DECmigrate9 Message-ID: <01282492.7eac3144@usw-ex0106-046.remarq.com>   ? WE have used Vets on all sorts of progams - from simple to very $ complex involving Decforms ACMS etc.@ They all worked Ok except for some problems with Fortran stuff -> we had to add som eparameters before it ran OK. - Once running it was no problem   = I don't know about the VMS6.2 and above but I am sure we have @ some success with simple stuff but I have definatly had problems? with a small Fortran prog - maybe it only works on some things?   ? P.s. if it does work watch out for .HIF files being created all < over the place - I think you stop this using -warn parameter      L * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *G The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:57:30 +0100# From: "Paul Hardy" <Paul@lsl.co.uk>  Subject: Re: VEST / DECmigrate* Message-ID: <8h80mk$d1k$1@relay.lsl.co.uk>  2 Amir Elisha Aharoni, the original Israelite, said:@ >Is anyone here familiar with the VEST a.k.a DECmigrate utility?K >It claims to convert VAX/VMS EXE images to ones that can run on Alpha VMS. G >Is anyone here familiar with any success stories involving this thing?     E In 1994, we sucessfully used VEST (DECmigrate) to translate about 180 I programs made from a million lines of Fortran. We did have a few problems H with some of the very old code, but in most cases any problems that wereK turned up, were bugs in the original programs that it had been getting away  with.   G I was very impressed with VEST as a tool. Performance loss seemed to be H about 50% against fully native code, but given that any Alpha is several5 times faster than any VAX, the users will see a gain.   J The translated programs have all successfully run right through to OpenVMSL 7.1, for production work at multiple sites (and are still in use), but threeF out of 180 broke last year, because of incompatible changes in the new1 Fortran run-time libraries (I think since fixed).    The main problems are:  H 1)  VEST requires a VAX image linked no later than VMS V5.5-2, so if youL have built VAX images under V6 or V7, you have to find an old VMS system and! recompile them before translating   K 2) DEQ/Compaq have dropped support for VEST, so if you get any problems you  won't get much help.  / 4) Debugging VESTed executables is a nightmare!   L In general, you are much better off recompiling native if you have access toI the sources and have the time to do it and test the results. If not, then  VEST is a very useful tool.    --? Paul Hardy (PGH), Business Development Manager, Laser-Scan Ltd, H Science Park, Milton Rd, CAMBRIDGE, CB4 0FY, GB. Tel: +44 (0)1223 420414B Fax: 420044, Email: Paul@LSL.co.uk, Web: http://www.Laser-Scan.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 02:49:16 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> @ Subject: Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever)( Message-ID: <8h7l78$jpg$1@pyrite.mv.net>  G Talking to a brick wall sometimes seems more effective:  at least one's , expectations can be set reasonably up front.  J David's comment "I'm not counting any of those chickens before they hatch"> seems, at least to me, to have a very obvious, and reasonable,I interpretation:  Spiralog was planned, was hyped, actually shipped, and - I flopped.  The same thing could happen with EFC, and its appearance on the J road map, in which you place so much faith, means approximately as much asI Spiralog's did (at least I assume Spiralog appeared on a road map at some  point).   I I don't expect that to happen, but then I didn't expect it to happen with C Spiralog either (though I did expect that Spiralog would not be the G wunder-feature that a lot of people believed it would be).  And by some L reports EFC V1 has already missed its first hoped-for release date.  Glenn'sK reassurance that work is already well under way doesn't seem any more solid H an endorsement than the glowing comments Andy Goldstein made to me aboutJ Spiralog around the time its field test ended:  they're both very credibleI individuals, but neither is responsible for the implementation upon which ; they commented, and that's where the rubber meets the road.   I Feel free to be as optimistic as you care to be.  But expect criticism if H you disparage others for being more guarded, especially when they've got3 examples (like Spiralog) to give them reason to be.    - bill  5 Rob Young <young_r@eisner.decus.org> wrote in message % news:PjT1QfU8ohB5@eisner.decus.org... L > In article <8h6mh0$p3e$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes:  >  > > 9 > > Rob Young <young_r@eisner.decus.org> wrote in message ) > > news:ty6ArUaZ3tsO@eisner.decus.org... 9 > >> In article <8h6h2o$c4h$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd"  <billtodd@foo.mv.com>  > > writes:  > >> >< > >> > Rob Young <young_r@eisner.decus.org> wrote in message, > >> > news:xxAEDAo7t0W0@eisner.decus.org...4 > >> >> In article <8h3bc6$2gl@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,! > > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu  > >> > (David Mathog) writes:  > >> >
 > >> > ... > >> >C > >> >> > I'm not counting any of those chickens before they hatch.  Remember > > the G > >> >> > buildup for Spiralog, and how many of us ended up using that?  > >  > > ...  > > F > >> >> All part of the base OS.  Spiralog was a bolt-on.  Yes it wentD > >> >> away and a few may have been saddened.  But your point aboutB > >> >> the caching isn't a good one... it isn't "just a build up" > >  > > ...  > > L > >> > So while we can certainly hope that the EFC work turns out to be more@ > >> > worthwhile, I don't see David's comment as inappropriate. > >> > > >>B > >> What do you mean, specifically?  i.e. cite an example of whatA > >> he said that you don't disagree with and I will let you know ( > >> if I don't disagree with it either. > > L > > Since I had included only a single comment from David (above), I thought the J > > reference was clear.  And you had already disagreed with it (see above for a L > > small portion).  And that's what I took exception to, and still do:  the* > > parallel he drew was a reasonable one. > >  > ? > No... totally unreasonable one.  He is going on about caching C > and lack thereof in VMS and how much greater it is in Linux/Unix. : > Unreasonable?  Why sure.  Given what we except as facts: > ) > 1)  Current VMS file caching is limited . > 2)  Linux file caching and caching is better2 > 3)  Improved VMS file caching is being worked on+ > and publically available roadmaps reflect  > that.  > = > So what is his point?  Perhaps I am misinterpreting what he @ > is saying but I think he is saying that VMS filesystem caching? > isn't as great as Linux and I say:  No kidding... it is being  > worked on. > : > >> It's there on a roadmap.  I didn't applaud timelines. > > L > > No, but you specifically suggested that the limited caching issues wouldF > > disappear with 7.3, which to all appearances will not be the case. > >  > 7 > Nit... so it gets even better on some future version.  > 
 > >> > ... > >> >C > >> >> Is there anything else we can moan about?  I really need to  > >> >> get practiced up...  > >> >I > >> > My suspicion is that at least a portion of David's annoyance stems  from > > the I > >> > knee-jerk reactions to the effect that "VMS don't need no stinkin'  UnixL > >> > features!  It's better by definition, and that's all there is to it!" > > whenE > >> > he presumed to suggest that Unix had performance advantages in  certain 	 > > areas J > >> > that VMS might do well to consider.  Poring over Compaq OpenVMS Web siteL > >> > material is not a pre-requisite for participation in comp.os.vms, the > > lackL > >> > of any mention of the road map information until now (when he startedL > >> > talking about this issue months ago) is sufficient indication that it > > was L > >> > not exactly foremost in the minds of other people either, and even if he > > had I > >> > been aware of it not only are the details insufficient to indicate  > > whether H > >> > it will be comparable to the Unix facilities but he should not be blamed > > for I > >> > wondering, on the basis of past future plans for VMS enhancements,  > > whether L > >> > it would appear on time (one who should know has suggested to me that it > > may @ > >> > originally have been slated for 7.2) and in full regalia. > >> > > >> > >> Well... > >> > >> Specifically: > >>% > >> "VMS don't need no stinkin' Unix J > >> features!  It's better by definition, and that's all there is to it!" > >>A > >> That would be a mis-charecterization of my criticisms of his  > >> comments. > > F > > But it's not a mis-characterization of criticisms provided by some others, L > > and your implication that he was complaining unreasonably because *some*J > > (not very well delineated) caching improvements appear on the road map may F > > not have sat all that well in such a context, especially after you dragged  > > in irrelevancies like GUI. > >  > D > The irrelevancies of GUI were deliberate.  Now here is my parallel; > and feel free to disagree... folks in various venues feel B > GUIs are the cat's meow and working at a command line is insane.A > Some of it is truly a matter of preference.  Others are totally D > convinced it is a productivty issue.  We could complain that thereD > isn't a Window's interface for manipulating SYSGEN yet and not see? > it on a roadmap and make that a big issue.  Now here is where C > it get a little presumptuous.  I presume that David is interested B > in VMS.  Being interested in VMS and its limited caching I wouldC > also presume is something he would like to see improved and maybe D > even see if it is happening, when it is happening, etc.  But no...C > when I jump into the breech , here is his head-in-the-sand reply:  >  > Me:  > B > > Caching gets much improved in the next go round of VMS (unlessH >  > I've mixed up roadmaps or am misremembering).  How did this happen?H >  > Senior engineer at a DECUS explained that: "remember, VIOC was justE >  > a stop-gap measure... it wasn't supposed to be around this long" E >  > or something similar.  Relase notes showed new sysgen parameters I >  > for write behind caching and write delay.  Something to look forward H >  > to.  So how did this happen?  Fork in the road called Spiralog from >  > what I understand.  >  > >  > David: > I > I'm not counting any of those chickens before they hatch.  Remember the  buildup K > for Spiralog, and how many of us ended up using that?  Meanwhile, back at  the G > farm, for the sorts of applications which I (and everybody else in my  field J > run) Linux and Tru64 "out of the box" outperform VMS "out of the box" onL > identical hardware by a wide margin on systems which are "lightly loaded".I > This is true for virtually every application which "runs faster on Unix  than on J > OpenVMS".  Moreover, it's likely that much of the weakness we see in FTP serverI > and SMB server performance on OpenVMS are due to this single difference  (with F > the rest being due to TCP/IP stack incompatibilities with the client	 systems.)  >  > > > So then it becomes a matter of unbelief.  Not one to give up8 > easily let me lead the horse to water.  Let's continue< > the absurdity a bit for effect and pretend David responds: > : > "Roadmaps , big deal... if I had a nickel for everything( > I saw on a roadmap that didn't , etc." > = > Okay... so then I appeal to Glenn Everhart who assures that / > file caching development is well underway....  > @ > The point of my GUI dredging was an attempt to draw a parallelC > absurdity to the surface so we could beat on that a while.  Might E > as well, after all we would have very similar results :-).  Wishing D > and hoping for Window's like features may be even more absurd thanC > improved file caching becuase we know the latter is well underway > > whereas the former may not be happening for quite some time. >  > J > > Your enthusiasm appears to exceed your focus fairly commonly, at least in my F > > experience.  In a puppy, that can be endearing.  In a spirited and somewhat0 > > contentious discussion, it can get annoying. > >  > E > Regarding David's little issue here... I thought I did a reasonable @ > job steering him to where things get better and Glenn providedE > enough sunshine on the subject to add confirmation.  Maybe a single C > line of David's reply summarizes how we differ and dovetails to a . > refutation of your puppy endearment comment: > = > "I'm not counting any of those chickens before they hatch."  > = > In fairness to David, maybe he didn't know about filesystem A > caching futures BUT I do know that has been mentioned more than < > once in this forum.  So in examination of the evidence hisC > response more than reveals his bent.  He's a "glass is half full" E > kinda guy and I'm not.  Oh...  and I'm willing to go out and dig up > > a bit of stuff to add credence to what I believe... it isn'tB > irrational exuberance, it is genuine enthusiasm based on factualD > evidence.  You may call into question some of the so called facts,< > true ... not all of them hold up but many do... it doesn'tB > make me infallable as I make mistakes all the time.  But it does& > help me to understand things better. > B > If you are so convinced as David that caching isn't getting muchD > better in VMS , you would be willing to lay a wager, wouldn't you?F > But that isn't how you feel at all as you know it is coming, so then > the question becomes:  > + > "How SOON does it need to show up to make 8 > the vast majority happy about VMS filesystem caching?" > 1 > 3 years ago?   (Not possible, it didn't happen) 1 > Last week?     (Not possible, it didn't happen) = > Next year?     (probable, but we want it now, some unhappy) > > 3 years from now? (likely, but we want it now, some unhappy) > A > But it is a lose lose proposition for those that want to use it C > today.  No wonder some of those folks are "glass half full" kinda  > folks. >  > Rob  >    ------------------------------  " Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 12:58:28 GMT* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)@ Subject: Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever)+ Message-ID: <Uz8oKEwyXUi3@eisner.decus.org>   R In article <8h7l78$jpg$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes:I > Talking to a brick wall sometimes seems more effective:  at least one's . > expectations can be set reasonably up front. > L > David's comment "I'm not counting any of those chickens before they hatch"@ > seems, at least to me, to have a very obvious, and reasonable,K > interpretation:  Spiralog was planned, was hyped, actually shipped, and - K > flopped.  The same thing could happen with EFC, and its appearance on the L > road map, in which you place so much faith, means approximately as much asK > Spiralog's did (at least I assume Spiralog appeared on a road map at some 	 > point).  >   6 	Ah, now we are in the realm of "it happened before it; 	can happen again."   Sure.  But then the question becomes:    		"Do you think it will?"    	Is it worth a wager to you?   				Rob    ------------------------------  " Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 13:20:43 GMT9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) @ Subject: Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever)+ Message-ID: <aCGyB25Q4AGe@eisner.decus.org>   R In article <8h7l78$jpg$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes:I > Talking to a brick wall sometimes seems more effective:  at least one's . > expectations can be set reasonably up front. > L > David's comment "I'm not counting any of those chickens before they hatch"@ > seems, at least to me, to have a very obvious, and reasonable,K > interpretation:  Spiralog was planned, was hyped, actually shipped, and - K > flopped.  The same thing could happen with EFC, and its appearance on the L > road map, in which you place so much faith, means approximately as much asK > Spiralog's did (at least I assume Spiralog appeared on a road map at some 	 > point).   C Appearance on a Roadmap is not sufficient.  The reader must examine A the characteristics described and decide whether they provide any + benefit for the reader's own circumstances.   A People I know who saw Spiralog on the Roadmap universally had the D reaction "it is interesting that they have a file system alternativeE for those with write-mostly applications, but my applications are not  write-mostly".  B When I read the pain and anguish about future VMS disk caching notB having the fullest support for write at the start, I feel it meets@ my needs quite well.  My application is running compilers.  TheyB take in many source files and produce fewer object files.  ChangesA happen to approximately one source file before compilation, so if A all the other source files were still cached in memory I would be ? a happy camper.  Or maybe it flushes the cache when I close the C file, in which case I will not be helped.  Can anyone answer that ? ? It would be much more interesting to me than discussion of what  Linux does.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 13:32:32 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> @ Subject: Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever)( Message-ID: <8h8qta$fi7$1@pyrite.mv.net>  5 Rob Young <young_r@eisner.decus.org> wrote in message % news:Uz8oKEwyXUi3@eisner.decus.org... L > In article <8h7l78$jpg$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes: K > > Talking to a brick wall sometimes seems more effective:  at least one's 0 > > expectations can be set reasonably up front. > > G > > David's comment "I'm not counting any of those chickens before they  hatch"B > > seems, at least to me, to have a very obvious, and reasonable,G > > interpretation:  Spiralog was planned, was hyped, actually shipped,  and - I > > flopped.  The same thing could happen with EFC, and its appearance on  the K > > road map, in which you place so much faith, means approximately as much  asH > > Spiralog's did (at least I assume Spiralog appeared on a road map at some > > point).  > >  > 7 > Ah, now we are in the realm of "it happened before it < > can happen again."   Sure.  But then the question becomes: >  > "Do you think it will?"  >  > Is it worth a wager to you?   E I've already said that I don't *expect* EFC to be the kind of failure L Spiralog was (though it could happen).  And I can't remember the last time IF wagered on anything, though I'm reasonably sure it was well before VMSI appeared on the scene:  I don't have anything against wagering, it's just J not of interest to me (if it were, I suspect I'd spend my time working the& market instead of this kind of thing).  H However, my expectation is that, while it should improve current defaultJ performance considerably, default file system performance with EFC V2 willL likely still fall somewhat short of Unix default file system performance (atG least for some of the better implementations, like SGI's):  some of the K optimizations involve things like cooperating with the file system to defer E specific space allocation until time of actual disk write (there's no L indication I know of that EFC is getting into stuff like that), while othersB aren't cache-related at all (e.g., the use of a log to allow smallD synchronous writes to be made persistent immediately in an efficient manner).   - bill   >  > Rob  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 14:00:42 +0200" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>= Subject: Re: VMS V6.2 to V7.2 upgrade disaster (VAXsta 3138). ( Message-ID: <8h876b$n0h$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  % OK, that clarifies a lot of unknowns.   K If setting STARTUP_P1 to "MIN" did not get you any further, and you want to  know what happens, try this:  SYSBOOT> set /startup=opa0:  SYSBOOT> continue G Once you get the $ prompt, SPAWN a subprocess and then try $ SET VERIFY  and @SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP K It'll take a long while but it might give you a clue where the boot process 
 fails you.I OTOH if the target disk is far from well you'd better  get the disk fixed  first.K It's no use trying to debug a process that generally works well (I mean how  many things ? go wrong with VMSINSTAL, right) if the hardware is failing you. I Did you try to initializa the disk again and do an ANAL/DISK and run both  read and
 write checks? K I had an old RZ23L yesterday which complained about parity errors too. Just  initialized the H thing and ran BACKUP tasks on it for a night and it did not log a single error afterwards.   L I agree that a 4G disk won't reliably work on an older VS3100. But you could install VMS I on it, provided you make sure nothing is written beyond the 1.05G marker.  Just VMS (so/ no libraries, optional files and what have you) K and small page and swapfiles will do just that and you can use that VMS kit  to check the
 problem disk.   
 Hans Vlems  , sms@antinode.org heeft geschreven in bericht  <00060119483082@antinode.org>...I >   Thanks for the private and public responses.  Covering the questions:  > H >> [...] does the VAX not continue booting after this message?   Did you >> halt it right there? [...]  > H >> Post the last 5 lines or so, that'll allow us to figure out where the >> boot process stopped. > 7 >   After the message "%DECnet-W-NOOPEN, could not open F >SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSEXE]NET$CONFIG.DAT", it spontaneously started to bootH >again.  That was the last thing it said, just before the screen clearedI >and it started again with the usual "83 BOOT SYS", "-DKA200", and so on. * >I didn't touch it.  Left alone, it loops. > " >> Have you tried to boot minimal? > D >   Yup.  After the "SYSBOOT> CONT", it proceeded to fail as before.I >Apparently, whatever is broken happens quite early.  I have yet to check A >the start-up sequence, but the problem with mounting the disk in - >mini-VMS suggests that it's related to that.  > F >   I did install DECnet-Plus during the upgrade, so that accounts forG >the missing NET$CONFIG.DAT, as I did not get a chance to configure it. I >The system is normally part of a cluster, but VAXCLUSTER was set to zero H >for the upgrade, and, as with the network configurartion, I did not get >a chance to change it back. > I >   Restoring the V6.2 image backup revealed a few apparent bad blocks on ? >the disk (BACKUP verify errors, "PARITY", as I recall).  After F >recovering the affected files (all in SYS$HELP) from an older backup,C >and deleting the troubled ones, I could hear the bad block program @ >scrubbing them.  A second round of BACKUP got similar errors inG >different places, so it appears that the bad blocks are not put out of H >action permanently.  Firmware format (TEST 75?) gave no complaints.  ItI >may be time to look for a different, obsolete disk drive to replace this  >one.  > E >   As the second disk in this thing is 4GB, and hence too big to let G >Standalone BACKUP boot reliably from it, and as I'm getting too old to F >waste the time required to boot it from a TK50, I finally had a validI >excuse to use my RX23 floppy kit.  That almost made it worth the bother.  > H >   I may not be able to get back to this fount of fun for a week or so,G >but is there a SYSBOOT>-settable parameter which does a SET VERIFY for  >the start-up procedures?  > I >------------------------------------------------------------------------  > D >   Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)D >   382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work)H >   Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work): >   sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work) >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 10:22:09 +0100 B From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>" Subject: Re: Wildfire Announcement* Message-ID: <39377CC1.4B1D184B@uk.sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote:    > "Main, Kerry" wrote:L > > So, if you have no faith in what Compaq marketing is stating on officialO > > Compaq pages, and if you continue to think that the head of Oracle does not ( > > in any way stand behind what he says > N > I don't think that this is what has been said. I think it is more a questionC > of Compaq having no real special status within the Oracle empire.  >   D Exactly, Kerry seems to be claiming some kind of special endorsement@ and relationship with Oracle based on Larrys comments, which areF almost identical to the ones he has made for Sun launches, HP launches and IBM launches.   ; Sadly OpenVMS/VMS did once have a special status in Oracles ? empire, it was the development platform and first port but that : is long gone with Solaris and in some areas NT taking over	 from VMS.    Regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 10:17:45 +0100 B From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>" Subject: Re: Wildfire Announcement* Message-ID: <39377BB9.FD303433@uk.sun.com>   "Main, Kerry" wrote:   > Andrew, Andrew ..  > J > So, if you have no faith in what Compaq marketing is stating on officialM > Compaq pages, and if you continue to think that the head of Oracle does not L > in any way stand behind what he says, and if you continue to ignore recentM > wins (17% of OpenVMS revenue last year was new business, but I don't expect H > you to believe that) and if you continue to try to spread gloom-n-doomJ > information from the past to the readers of this list no matter what new" > information is presented here .. >   F Kerry, what exactly did Larry say. He said nice products, nice companyI and Oracle runs on the nice procucts. Thats it, there isn't anything more B reading Larrys comments as being some sort of long term endorsment? of Compaq/Tru64/OpenVMS is naive in the extreme. Reading Larrys < comments as being an endorsment of Tru64/OpenVMS over any ofF Oracle's other platforms is simply clutching at straws. He turns up to> our launches, HP's launches and IBM's launches and pretty much says the same thing.  ? Its designed to keep the platform vendor doing the launch happy : without offending Oracle's other partners. Why would Larry; want to offend Sun, HP or IBM. Sun has the largest share of 6 Oracles revenues on our systems would he want to place< that revenue stream under any threat. Of course he wouldn't.  = I would place a lot more emphasis on Larrys kind words if the > words were backed up by deads. The fact is that 8i still isn't9 available on OpenVMS it was due last year, then march and ; it still hasn't happened. How many OpenVMS customers do you A think you have lost to other vendors or to Tru64 because of this, 9 I know of two that I have worked with in the UK and thats ? before you start looking at all the other apps that Oracle have  that don't run on OpenVMS.  J > However, when presented with very positive new information, you continueJ > with your "sky is falling" FUD that totally ignores the new information. >   : No sorry, there is no new information in the press release= you posted, there arn't endorsments from any of the eBusiness : partners alluded to in the press release but not named and? this is simply a preservation of the status quo, press releases 5 are cheap, but marketing and market development isn't  just press releases.  9 Come on Kerry where is the new information, I bet that if 8 I could find the 8400 product announcements I would find( an almost identical sentiment expressed.   > > > How can you expect anyone to reasonably take you seriously ? >   4 Sorry but given your postings this is hardly a point2 that is worth making from your standpoint. I asked. you who these unnamed eBusiness partners were.  0 You posted a Cognos URL which simply showed that6 it was possible to put a WEB front end on a Powerhouse/ app running on OpenVMS, this isn't the basis of 0 an eBusiness strategy and if you think it is and5 if your views reflect Compaqs views then to be honest " you may as well retire gracefully.  E > I just came back from a week of futures, new stuff in VMS V7.3, new L > application vendor strategies (including eBusiness), great new performanceJ > enhancements, new marketing strategies (read the magic word GROW OpenVMS > business) etc etc..  >   D Kerry an application vendor strategy is simply that a strategy, what? matters is how that strategy is executed and what resources are A available to assist in the execution. You need to spend money and I lots of it, people like Broadvision and Ariba and all the other eBusiness < apps vendors arn't going to port to Tru64 or OpenVMS withoutI you parting with cash. It is also pretty apparent that Digital and Compaq B have never been prepared to spend the kind of cash required to get them into this market.  B Why do you think Sun has being buying people like JCP and InnosoftF it wasn't because somebody said nice technology it was because someone= in market development said we need this technology to capture 4 a particular market segment lets go buy the company.   Regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 12:34:54 GMT . From: Peter Moreton <petermoreton@my-deja.com>" Subject: Re: Wildfire Announcement) Message-ID: <8h89ld$i09$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   E The fact is that OpenVMS is a fine operating system, in the mainframe D 24*7*365 class. It will continue to be used in volume as it is rightF now, for a very long time. OpenVMS is a cash-cow for Compaq (check the8 figures) and shows no signs of ceasing to be profitable.  D FWIW, my company (a large american bank) is polarising on IBM 0S/390G and OS/400 for the back-office applications and NT for everything else. A Everything else, (AIX, OS2, Netware, OpenVMS, Sunos, Solaris (yes D Solaris!) ) is being wound down. The only platforms showing year-on-E year deployment growth for us are IBM and Microsoft. Seems to me that C Sun are going the same way as Novell, mainly due to Scott McNealy's  boneheaded arrogance!   F Let stop the holy war Andrew, get back in your pram, and remember it's& Sun's turn next on the chopping block.   -- Peter Moreton, Northamptonshire,  UK.       * In article <39377BB9.FD303433@uk.sun.com>,E   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:  > "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > > Andrew, Andrew ..  > > C > > So, if you have no faith in what Compaq marketing is stating on  officialF > > Compaq pages, and if you continue to think that the head of Oracle does notG > > in any way stand behind what he says, and if you continue to ignore  recentB > > wins (17% of OpenVMS revenue last year was new business, but I don't expectF > > you to believe that) and if you continue to try to spread gloom-n- doomC > > information from the past to the readers of this list no matter  what new$ > > information is presented here .. > >  > H > Kerry, what exactly did Larry say. He said nice products, nice companyF > and Oracle runs on the nice procucts. Thats it, there isn't anything moreD > reading Larrys comments as being some sort of long term endorsmentA > of Compaq/Tru64/OpenVMS is naive in the extreme. Reading Larrys > > comments as being an endorsment of Tru64/OpenVMS over any ofH > Oracle's other platforms is simply clutching at straws. He turns up to@ > our launches, HP's launches and IBM's launches and pretty much > says the same thing. > A > Its designed to keep the platform vendor doing the launch happy < > without offending Oracle's other partners. Why would Larry= > want to offend Sun, HP or IBM. Sun has the largest share of 8 > Oracles revenues on our systems would he want to place> > that revenue stream under any threat. Of course he wouldn't. > ? > I would place a lot more emphasis on Larrys kind words if the @ > words were backed up by deads. The fact is that 8i still isn't; > available on OpenVMS it was due last year, then march and = > it still hasn't happened. How many OpenVMS customers do you C > think you have lost to other vendors or to Tru64 because of this, ; > I know of two that I have worked with in the UK and thats A > before you start looking at all the other apps that Oracle have  > that don't run on OpenVMS. > C > > However, when presented with very positive new information, you  continue? > > with your "sky is falling" FUD that totally ignores the new  information. > >  > < > No sorry, there is no new information in the press release? > you posted, there arn't endorsments from any of the eBusiness < > partners alluded to in the press release but not named andA > this is simply a preservation of the status quo, press releases 7 > are cheap, but marketing and market development isn't  > just press releases. > ; > Come on Kerry where is the new information, I bet that if : > I could find the 8400 product announcements I would find* > an almost identical sentiment expressed. >  > > @ > > How can you expect anyone to reasonably take you seriously ? > >  > 6 > Sorry but given your postings this is hardly a point4 > that is worth making from your standpoint. I asked0 > you who these unnamed eBusiness partners were. > 2 > You posted a Cognos URL which simply showed that8 > it was possible to put a WEB front end on a Powerhouse1 > app running on OpenVMS, this isn't the basis of 2 > an eBusiness strategy and if you think it is and7 > if your views reflect Compaqs views then to be honest $ > you may as well retire gracefully. > G > > I just came back from a week of futures, new stuff in VMS V7.3, new B > > application vendor strategies (including eBusiness), great new performance D > > enhancements, new marketing strategies (read the magic word GROW OpenVMS  > > business) etc etc..  > >  > F > Kerry an application vendor strategy is simply that a strategy, whatA > matters is how that strategy is executed and what resources are C > available to assist in the execution. You need to spend money and A > lots of it, people like Broadvision and Ariba and all the other 	 eBusiness > > apps vendors arn't going to port to Tru64 or OpenVMS withoutD > you parting with cash. It is also pretty apparent that Digital and CompaqD > have never been prepared to spend the kind of cash required to get > them into this market. > D > Why do you think Sun has being buying people like JCP and InnosoftH > it wasn't because somebody said nice technology it was because someone? > in market development said we need this technology to capture 6 > a particular market segment lets go buy the company. > 	 > Regards  > Andrew Harrison  > Enterprise IT Architect  >  >     & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.307 ************************