1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 04 Jun 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 311       Contents:, Re: Compaq not as bad as Andrew says (wish?)P Re: DIFF /IGNORE=(SPACING) questiion - was sent before with wrong	subjectline, s emergency startup procedure  emergency startup procedure  Re: emergency startup procedure  Re: emergency startup procedure  Re: emergency startup procedure / Re: Format of Help Files (SYS$HELP:HELPLIB.HLB) / Re: Format of Help Files (SYS$HELP:HELPLIB.HLB) / Re: Format of Help Files (SYS$HELP:HELPLIB.HLB) 6 How I can set the environment variable on the VAX/VMS?: Re: How I can set the environment variable on the VAX/VMS?: Re: How I can set the environment variable on the VAX/VMS?: Re: How I can set the environment variable on the VAX/VMS?E Re: I/O cache - HSZ, was Re: Compaq not as bad as Andrew says (wish?) E Re: I/O cache - HSZ, was Re: Compaq not as bad as Andrew says (wish?) , Re: None dare call it Legacy (ISE goes live)5 Re: OpenVMS Date Change software for application only  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VEST / DECmigrate 7 Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever) 7 Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever) 4 Re: VMS V6.2 to V7.2 upgrade disaster (VAXsta 3138).8 Re: What is the simplest way to network two VMS systems?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2000 07:20:18 GMT - From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) 5 Subject: Re: Compaq not as bad as Andrew says (wish?) 5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-eweiS1ff8Qtz@localhost>   E On Sun, 1 Jun 3900 13:06:09, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote:    > % >  and still provide me with the same  > > level of C2 security.  > M > C2 security is C2 security, it doesn't come in levels.  Some Unixes provide N > it (don't happen to know which).  Seems unlikely caching has much to do with > it.  Larry might know.  F Sorry, I appear to have expressed myself badly. That should read 'sameF level of security (we require C2).' I certainly wasn't trying to implyC it was a caching issue. Only that there is an overhead in some i/o  2 operations brought about by the security features.  E Similarly, I suspect that some of the perceived slowness, especially  F with David's small file scenario, is actually not the record access at0 all; instead I think the main cause is the file F creation/opening/closing overhead. We 'know' this is higher than most E of the other OS's. Partly because of security, but mainly because it  @ is the cost of things we appreciate about VMS, even if its only  backward compatibility.    2 After a two gap I appear to have lost my thread...   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 18:01:30 +1000/ From: "Phil Howell" <howellp@snowyhydro.com.au> Y Subject: Re: DIFF /IGNORE=(SPACING) questiion - was sent before with wrong	subjectline, s 1 Message-ID: <w1o_4.8211$N4.304861@ozemail.com.au>   K I always use $diff /ignore=(spacing,trailing,exact) but I think the problem J here is that spacing qualifier just regards multiple spacing and tabs as aI single space, ie. if your oldfile started with two spaces and the newfile ) with one space then it would have worked.  Phil- <norm.raphael@jamesbury.com> wrote in message . news:C22568F2.0076F63B.00@jklh21.valmet.com... >  >  > B > I have a text file that differs from its predecessor (mostly) inB > that the old one has lines that start with a single space, while@ > in the new one, that space has been edited out.  Nevertheless,? > when I do $DIFF/IGNORE=(SPACING) newfile.txt;<cr> the leading ) > space in the new file is _not_ ignored.  >  > Is this intended behavior? > = > Is there a switch to get DIFF to see them as matched lines?  >  > Here is the help file entry. > 
 > DIFFERENCES  >  >   /IGNORE  > ! >         /IGNORE=(keyword[,...])  > D >      Inhibits the comparison of the specified characters, strings,C >      or records; also controls whether the comparison records are F >      output to the listing file as edited records or exactly as theyG >      appeared in the input file. If you specify only one keyword, you G >      can omit the parentheses. The keyword parameter refers to either E >      a character or a keyword. The first set of keywords determines G >      what, if anything, is ignored during file comparison; the second G >      set of keywords determines whether or not ignored characters are G >      included in the output. The following keywords are valid options ! >      for the /IGNORE qualifier:  > $ >      Keyword          Item Ignored >  > [snip] > E >      SPACING          Extra blank spaces or tabs within data lines.  >  > [snip] >  > -Norm  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 05:33:34 -0700 2 From: vmsinmich <snomotorNOsnSPAM@aol.com.invalid>$ Subject: emergency startup procedure9 Message-ID: <0c2f8d6a.c98749ce@usw-ex0106-044.remarq.com>   F I purchased two vax 2000 work stations and I cannot login because I doC not know the password to get into the accounts. These computers are C linked to machines that I bought and I need the software that is on B them. So I need to be able to login to run the software for thesesD machines. I need to know how to perform a conversational boot and if@ this will allow me to by pass the sys$system:sysuafalt.dat file?C Also I am used to rsx11 on PDP 11's and the always used sysmgr as a F account name for the system manager I am not sure what the login is onD the 2000, is it just system or is it the same as the PDP11? Is thereH any documentation left I would like to find a VAX processor installation and operations guide.  

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
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    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 05:51:28 -0700 2 From: vmsinmich <snomotorNOsnSPAM@aol.com.invalid>$ Subject: emergency startup procedure9 Message-ID: <2d3d3c8c.ce31e294@usw-ex0106-044.remarq.com>   C I have recently purchased machines that are linked to VAX 2000 work D stations and I do not know the passwords to login to them. I think IC need to start them up in a conversational boot but I do not now the E procedure for this. Can anyone help me out? I am familiar with RSX 11 D on PDP11's and they called their system manager account sysmgr. I amE not sure on the VAX is it the same or is it just system? I also would G like to know if there is documentation still out there? I would like to E get the VAX processor installation and operations guide for the 2000. ' Your help would be greatly appreciated.     L * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *G The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 16:08:26 +0900 2 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com>( Subject: Re: emergency startup procedure+ Message-ID: <393A7EFA.5FD54F07@digital.com>    vmsinmich wrote: > H > I purchased two vax 2000 work stations and I cannot login because I doE > not know the password to get into the accounts. These computers are E > linked to machines that I bought and I need the software that is on D > them. So I need to be able to login to run the software for thesesF > machines. I need to know how to perform a conversational boot and ifB > this will allow me to by pass the sys$system:sysuafalt.dat file?E > Also I am used to rsx11 on PDP 11's and the always used sysmgr as a H > account name for the system manager I am not sure what the login is onF > the 2000, is it just system or is it the same as the PDP11? Is thereJ > any documentation left I would like to find a VAX processor installation > and operations guide.  >  >   A Find the OpenVMS FAQ (e.g. http://eisner.decus.org/vms/faq.htm )  ; and look for "MGMT5: I've forgotten the SYSTEM password..."    ~Mike   E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 08:04:50 -0700 2 From: vmsinmich <snomotorNOsnSPAM@aol.com.invalid>( Subject: Re: emergency startup procedure9 Message-ID: <1d0398b0.aba7b218@usw-ex0106-048.remarq.com>   D I tried to stop the boot up using control p and the break key and itG still continued to boot up. At what point do you execute the break key?     L * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *G The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 18:10:31 +0200> From: "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr>( Subject: Re: emergency startup procedure3 Message-ID: <8hduuj$22qd$1@s2.feed.news.oleane.net>   J there is a little button at the rear of the vs2000. marked with a triangleK within a circle (should be verdy small, blue) up beside the other connecors    Jean-Franois Marchal  X9000 - LYON  ? "vmsinmich" <snomotorNOsnSPAM@aol.com.invalid> wrote in message 3 news:1d0398b0.aba7b218@usw-ex0106-048.remarq.com... F > I tried to stop the boot up using control p and the break key and itI > still continued to boot up. At what point do you execute the break key?  >  > L > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * I > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!  >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 18:24:50 +1000/ From: "Phil Howell" <howellp@snowyhydro.com.au> 8 Subject: Re: Format of Help Files (SYS$HELP:HELPLIB.HLB)1 Message-ID: <nno_4.8240$N4.305521@ozemail.com.au>   I <tsm@palindrome.org> wrote in message news:8hcc2t$bn9$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > > I was wondering if the format of help files (*.HLB) files is/ > documented, or if it is a proprietary format.  > E > What I want to do, basically, is transfer SYS$HELP:HELPLIB.HLB to a H > Linux computer, and then write a clone of the HELP program which wouldH > be able to read that file. I know it is an indexed file, so I would be? > of course willing to write a program to transfer it into some < > intermediate format which the Linux computer could handle.  > All my help files are sequential fixed-length 512 byte records  G > Any ideas? I do have the complete VMS documentation set, but I do not I > know what utilty to look at -- I am not even sure which program creates 
 > help files!  >  > Thanks for any insight.  > 
 > Regards, >  > Terry Murphy > * Have a look for the librarian utility docoG It can load text files (usually called .hlp) into help libraries (.hlb) . or can extract .hlp files from help libraries.  G The hlp files are well structured and have a "level number" in front of  blocks of text.   L If you just want to view vms help on the linux box, then one way would be toI extract all that you want and then run it through a utility like ASCTOHTM G (freely available for vms) to create html pages which you can then view  through your favourite browser.   I You will have to read the asctohtm doco on how to configure it best to do  the conversion.    Phil   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 08:37:13 GMT / From: Hans.Bachner@altavista.net (Hans Bachner) 8 Subject: Re: Format of Help Files (SYS$HELP:HELPLIB.HLB)* Message-ID: <393a149a.3106897@news.aon.at>  : tsm@palindrome.org wrote on Sun, 04 Jun 2000 01:40:47 GMT:  = >I was wondering if the format of help files (*.HLB) files is . >documented, or if it is a proprietary format. > D >What I want to do, basically, is transfer SYS$HELP:HELPLIB.HLB to aG >Linux computer, and then write a clone of the HELP program which would G >be able to read that file. I know it is an indexed file, so I would be > >of course willing to write a program to transfer it into some; >intermediate format which the Linux computer could handle.  <snip>  " Would extracting the modules help?  P With $ LIBRARY /HELP /EXTRACT=* SYS$HELP:HELPLIB.HLB /OUTPUT=HELPLIB.HLP you getJ a plain text file in a documented format (with numbers indicating the helpC "level"). You could proceed from there to whatever format you need.     : ---------------- speaking only for myself ---------------- Hans Bachner Compaq Computer Austria + Compaq Customer Services - Software Support  E-Mail: Hans.Bachner@compaq.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 17:37:05 GMT  From: tsm@palindrome.org8 Subject: Re: Format of Help Files (SYS$HELP:HELPLIB.HLB)) Message-ID: <8he440$fgu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   * In article <393a149a.3106897@news.aon.at>,2   Hans.Bachner@altavista.net (Hans Bachner) wrote:  $ > Would extracting the modules help? > ! > With $ LIBRARY /HELP /EXTRACT=* 0 SYS$HELP:HELPLIB.HLB /OUTPUT=HELPLIB.HLP you getG > a plain text file in a documented format (with numbers indicating the  helpE > "level"). You could proceed from there to whatever format you need.   G Cool! Thank you! This looks like an extremely doable format. It's about G 15,000 blocks, so I'll probably just read it directly into memory (that  would be fast, once loaded).   Regards,   Terry Murphy   http://www.palindrome.org     & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 14:59:43 +0700 ) From: Denis Shadrin <shadrin@novosoft.ru> ? Subject: How I can set the environment variable on the VAX/VMS? + Message-ID: <393A0C6F.42B04508@novosoft.ru>    Hi!   _ I have no any VMS experience, but there is an application (ported from UNIX) which is needed in  environment variables.  S So How I can set the environment variable on the VMS shell (VAX/VMS version 5.5-2)?      --   With best regards 
 Denis Shadrin    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 18:36:47 +1000/ From: "Phil Howell" <howellp@snowyhydro.com.au> C Subject: Re: How I can set the environment variable on the VAX/VMS? 1 Message-ID: <Dyo_4.8250$N4.305240@ozemail.com.au>   7 Without knowing exactly what an environment variable is  you may want either   a symbol     <symbol>="variable"%          or        <symbol>:=variable $ a global symbol <symbol>=="variable".          or                <symbol>:==variable   or maybe it's a logical name    define <logical_name> "variable"   Phil   ps. what's a shell?     4 Denis Shadrin <shadrin@novosoft.ru> wrote in message% news:393A0C6F.42B04508@novosoft.ru...  > Hi!  > H > I have no any VMS experience, but there is an application (ported from UNIX) which is needed in > environment variables. > E > So How I can set the environment variable on the VMS shell (VAX/VMS  version 5.5-2)?  >  >  > -- > With best regards  > Denis Shadrin    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 08:34:04 GMT / From: Hans.Bachner@altavista.net (Hans Bachner) C Subject: Re: How I can set the environment variable on the VAX/VMS? * Message-ID: <393a0f54.1756195@news.aon.at>  M Denis Shadrin <shadrin@novosoft.ru> wrote on Sun, 04 Jun 2000 14:59:43 +0700:    <snip>` >I have no any VMS experience, but there is an application (ported from UNIX) which is needed in >environment variables.  > T >So How I can set the environment variable on the VMS shell (VAX/VMS version 5.5-2)? <snip>  F OpenVMS has two concepts which - in different areas and ways - do what  environent variables do in Unix.  M If the value of an environment variable is evaluated by a getenv call, both a P DCL symbol and a logical name are checked. You'll find descriptions and examplesP for both in the OpenVMS DCL dictionary (at http://www.openvms.digital.com:8000)," and here are a few short examples:   - a symbol: ! $ my_env_var == "value goes here"  $ my_env_var_num == 17   - a logical name% $ define my_env_var "value goes here" 0 $ define datafile disk$data:[my_app]datafile.dat   Hope this helps.  : ---------------- speaking only for myself ---------------- Hans Bachner Compaq Computer Austria + Compaq Customer Services - Software Support  E-Mail: Hans.Bachner@compaq.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 17:32:40 +0700 ) From: Denis Shadrin <shadrin@novosoft.ru> C Subject: Re: How I can set the environment variable on the VAX/VMS? + Message-ID: <393A3048.4A5BA364@novosoft.ru>    Hi!    This one works: " > define <logical_name> "variable"  
 Thank you!   --   With best regards 
 Denis Shadrin      Phil Howell wrote: > 9 > Without knowing exactly what an environment variable is  > you may want either " > a symbol     <symbol>="variable"' >          or        <symbol>:=variable & > a global symbol <symbol>=="variable"0 >          or                <symbol>:==variable >  > or maybe it's a logical name > " > define <logical_name> "variable" >  > Phil >  > ps. what's a shell?  > 6 > Denis Shadrin <shadrin@novosoft.ru> wrote in message' > news:393A0C6F.42B04508@novosoft.ru...  > > Hi!  > > J > > I have no any VMS experience, but there is an application (ported from > UNIX) which is needed in > > environment variables. > > G > > So How I can set the environment variable on the VMS shell (VAX/VMS  > version 5.5-2)?  > >  > >  > > -- > > With best regards  > > Denis Shadrin    --   With best regards 
 Denis Shadrin    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Jun 2000 07:20:21 GMT - From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall) N Subject: Re: I/O cache - HSZ, was Re: Compaq not as bad as Andrew says (wish?)5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-hcn3brGdh8VC@localhost>   E On Sun, 1 Jun 3900 12:36:08, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote:   J > > But isn't that John's point? Head position is the controller's job not > > RMS or the ACP's.  > L > Which is not to say that they can't provide some help - e.g., by choosing,J > other things being equal, a group of writes targeted to a close range ofI > volume LBNs to destage rather than scattering targets across the entire M > volume:  drivers have been doing this kind of thing for at least 3 decades.   D True, but doesn't the game shift a little when using RAID, shadows, F mrirors and any other bells and whistles that  have been created over  the last 10/15/20 years?   I > And, of course, system-level write-back caching can be used without any G > special (or even any additional:  it's often the best use to put some L > existing memory to) hardware, so it's universally applicable, not just forN > the wealthy.  And it avoids the millisecond-order latency of passing throughL > a SCSI adapter.  And it allows writes to be avoided altogether if the fileJ > is deleted before they need to go to disk (e.g., tmp files).  Etc., etc.   True.     Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 11:48:14 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> N Subject: Re: I/O cache - HSZ, was Re: Compaq not as bad as Andrew says (wish?)( Message-ID: <8hdth7$akp$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 Dave Weatherall <djweath@attglobal.net> wrote in message/ news:DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-hcn3brGdh8VC@localhost... G > On Sun, 1 Jun 3900 12:36:08, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote:  > L > > > But isn't that John's point? Head position is the controller's job not > > > RMS or the ACP's.  > > D > > Which is not to say that they can't provide some help - e.g., by	 choosing, L > > other things being equal, a group of writes targeted to a close range ofK > > volume LBNs to destage rather than scattering targets across the entire F > > volume:  drivers have been doing this kind of thing for at least 3 decades. > E > True, but doesn't the game shift a little when using RAID, shadows, G > mrirors and any other bells and whistles that  have been created over  > the last 10/15/20 years?  H Only if the stripe structure (mirroring is less an issue) of the logicalE volume is not known to the portion of the file system responsible for K de-staging writes from the file system write-back cache:  ideally, it would I be nice to avoid the need for such knowledge, but then again, ideally, it K would be nice to avoid *all* the complexity file systems accept in order to K provide significantly better performance than a naive implementation could.   C There's no question that hardware-level write-back caching can help L performance.  However, there's also no question that a good deal (though notL all) of the performance boost it can provide can instead (and sometimes moreG efficiently) be provided by higher-level write-back caching mechanisms.   G One feature that higher-level write-back caches can't easily provide is G the ability to defer deferrable writes until a time that the disk finds I convenient (w.r.t. its head position and total load - e.g., to smooth out J bursts) to process them.  It's unfortunate that SCSI (and IDE, now that itH supports command tagged queuing) protocols do not provide a 'lazy write'J per-write-request option that indicates to the disk or controller that theK request can be cached (in the normal, non-battery-backed on-disk cache - or K in non-battery-backed controller cache, if available) until it's convenient L to transfer it to the platters, at which point completion information shouldL be returned (i.e., *not* the same as just enabling controller- or disk-levelI write-back caching for the request, where completion information would be G returned immediately, before the data was on the platters):  this would F allow considerably more latitude in queue optimization (and even writeD coalescing) at the disk without requiring expensive controller-levelF mirrored, stable memory, since the higher-level write-back cache wouldJ *know* when the data made it to disk and be able to act accordingly (e.g.,I log write-completion, release related log records for reclamation, etc.). L (And, as with most features, allowing such a write option to be expressed byH a client application would not be a bad idea either:  the Unix interfaceF already intrinsically supports this for its cached writes, but not forL 'direct' writes that would like to avoid the copying overhead of caching but, aren't in any particular hurry to complete.)  F Lacking such a protocol enhancement, the higher-level cache can try toL de-stage deferrable writes in neighborly clumps on the disk(s) at times whenF little other (local) disk activity is occurring - but in a shared-diskL environment it can't know what loads other nodes are placing on the disk, so# that's only a best-effort approach.   G However, the higher-level cache *can* do all the coalescing of multiple L (deferrable) writes to the same blocks, and merging of multiple (deferrable)G writes to adjacent blocks, that a controller-level write-back cache can G (well, in a shared-disk environment the controller could merge adjacent H writes from different nodes, but in practice this is likely a relatively@ rare occurrence compared to adjacent writes from the same node).  L The other thing higher-level write-back caches have problems with is lots ofK small, synchronous writes - but these can be handled efficiently by logging J mechanisms (which should be present for other reasons as well, hence don'tH constitute the incremental expense that stable mirrored controller-levelF cache mechanisms do), which effectively transform them into deferrableH writes.  Large, synchronous writes can be speeded up by controller-levelK write-back cache, but only until they fill it up (i.e., it's effective with C bursty large-write activity, but less so with more even large-write L activity) - not to mention that large writes often tend to have less need to+ be performed synchronously than small ones.    - bill   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 14:38:28 +0200" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>5 Subject: Re: None dare call it Legacy (ISE goes live) ' Message-ID: <8hdi4r$uq$1@news.IAEhv.nl>   ( Aren't you confusing VSAM and ISAM here?  
 Hans Vlems  H JF Mezei heeft geschreven in bericht <39380990.864A0423@videotron.ca>... >Bill Todd wrote:  >>K >> Sorry for the confusion.  Of course Rdb uses the underlying file system,  but G >> in a manner that by-passes all of the issues relating to its default J >> performance deficiencies compared to Unix's (and hence in a manner that made& >> Rob's comment entirely irrelevant). >  >Excuse me ? > L >RMS provides optional services above and beyond the basic unix file system. IfI >you create the file properly, you can get the raw data without having to  fight H >againt RMS. What you are saying is the same as someone complaining thatL >editing a document stored as an ISAM files on an IBM mainframe is very long
 >and tedious.  > I >So, RDB creates a raw file with its own structures inside. But a simpler I >application can rely on the RMS system to give it access to records. And  that# >is a function unavailable on Unix.  > + >Check out what the RMS acronym stands for.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 18:03:23 +1000/ From: "Phil Howell" <howellp@snowyhydro.com.au> > Subject: Re: OpenVMS Date Change software for application only1 Message-ID: <g3o_4.8213$N4.304708@ozemail.com.au>   0 I think this was advertised on the acersoft site Phil/ Stephen Cook <smcook@home.com> wrote in message " news:3938600E.E25D3A8F@home.com...	 > Hi All,  > L > I'm hoping someone can remember the name or location of some software that I saw last year K > (before Y2K).  This software allowed the user to change the date and time  that the application: > saw, but did not change the date and time of the system. > L > I did not need it at that time, however it has now become necessary, but I
 can no longer 
 > located it.  >   > Any help would be appreciated. >  > Thank You  > Stephen C. >    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 11:35:28 +0100. From: David Skinner <david3@drspc.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?0 Message-ID: <Ja+wcKAwDjO5Ew9z@drspc.demon.co.uk>  F In article <_ni_4.151494$MB.2783522@news6.giganews.com>, Timothy Stark# <sword7@grace.speakeasy.org> writes ? >In comp.os.vms David Skinner <david3@drspc.demon.co.uk> wrote: 9 >> Downloaded it this morning, and it seems to work well.  > J >> However, I'm a VAX/VMS newbie and what I really want it for is to learn
 >> about VMS.  > H >> I have a question: When I finished playing with it, I needed to bring? >> the system down. As a guess, I typed SHUTDOWN, which worked.  > I >> However, the last message told me to halt the system at the console. I B >> couldn't get a prompt, so I ended up just killing the emulator. > K >> Big mistake. The next time I booted, I got 7...6...5...4...3... OH SHIT, I >> Faiure (okay, I'm paraphrasing). Pesumably I screwed the filesystem or 8 >> something. I had to wipe the emulator and re-install. > I >> Is there a magic key combination to get back to the console prompt and H >> halt the system properly? Or could I have cleaned up the mess by some6 >> other means? Have I missed something in the manual? > F >Yesterday I downloaded 100 MB stuff demo kit from www.charon-vax.com.J >Thank to the DSL service,  I downloaded it for est. 20 minutes.  Not bad.K >I installed it into my PC successfully....  I started to run the emulator. K >The emulator successfully prints "Username:". :-)  I logged into system as > >SYSTEM.  I immediately was asked for new password and did it. > K >After I played with it, I tried to figure out how to shutdown this system. F >I tried many attempts until I typed 'shutdown' and it worked so well. > B >Yeah. VAX emulator seems working so well!  Good job, VAX emulator >developers. > J >No, it worked fine with me when I booted second time without any problem.H >I am new to VAX/VMS as "system admin" myself.  :-) I figured out how to >add accounts to system.  B Strange - I've now installed it on two boxes (both Win98, one with@ plenty of disk/RAM/MHz to spare, and one creaky little 16MB/P133F laptop). It runs just fine on both, but they both suffer the same fateB when I try to boot a second time. I must be doing something wrong!   --  
 David Skinner    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 14:35:10 +0200" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: VEST / DECmigrate' Message-ID: <8hdhuj$no$1@news.IAEhv.nl>   D And those poor souls that run PL/I programs. There's no PL/I support for AXP/VMS AFAIK.  
 Hans Vlems  ! (wasn't monitor written in PL/I?)   / Larry Kilgallen heeft geschreven in bericht ... 6 >In article <39380519.6B0A3BCC@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei& <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >> Paul Hardy wrote:L >>> 1)  VEST requires a VAX image linked no later than VMS V5.5-2, so if youL >>> have built VAX images under V6 or V7, you have to find an old VMS system and % >>> recompile them before translating  >>L >> Ouch. Technically, couldn't DECpaq recompile VEST on a more modern VMS so that7 >> it would be able to translate more modern programs ?  >  >No. > = >DECpaq could put a lot of effort into updating VEST and TIE, = >but it has nothing to do with what version VEST was compiled D >on and the type of work is _far_ more elaborate than recompilation. > : >VEST was a worthwhile investment back when Alpha started,9 >and they only had C and Fortran compilers ported.  These : >days, the only audience is those who haven't been able to >port their code over 7 years.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 12:06:36 GMT  From: d.webb@mdx.ac.uk@ Subject: Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever)) Message-ID: <8hdgo8$33h$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   ' In article <8hbrd8$dr$1@pyrite.mv.net>, *   "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote: > 7 > Keith Brown <kbrown780@usfamily.net> wrote in message ( > news:39394525.677E8963@usfamily.net... > >  > > > Bill Todd wrote: > > C > > .  Bill, I've been using VMS for over 16 years. I never saw VMS C > > while I was in school BTW, it all came after I started working. = > > In the last 2 years I have been spending significant time B > > learning Linux. RingTFM is what I have to do. I do not find itA > > intuitive as you would imply, but do see many similarities to A > > VMS. I like Linux but do find that it has some funky features @ > > that require some learning and as many times as not they areD > > more difficult to deal with than on VMS. I also find it to be noA > > easier to learn than VMS, which was easy BTW. If we are to be B > > dependent on SW developers that can only write code for the OS: > > they saw in school we will never get anywhere will we? > F > That's exactly how VMS got into the position it enjoys today.  And -E > surprise! - the world still moves on, even if VMS doesn't keep pace  with it D > (in areas like acceptance and market share).  And the systems thatD > developers encountered in school are (belatedly) starting to offer some of E > the VMS features (first extent-based file systems, then asynchrony,  albeitE > sometimes limited, and most recently primitive clustering) that the  market > actually seems to value. >  >     E In the last few years the only systems developers have met in schools  are microsoft systems.  F It used to be that University courses would do a lot of programming on' our VMS and unix systems. That changed. 6 Most programming is now done in a Windows Environment.  F Our VMS cluster is on Deccampus so some programming is still done withD the compilers provided by this. However the only compiler on our SUN< systems is gcc - it's free. It's main use - to build Apache.  B Linux may change this but looking around at the moment I don't see much sign of this.  9 So if developers only want to use the system they used at @ school/university then forget the DOJ Microsoft has already won.  
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 13:35:06 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>@ Subject: Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever)- Message-ID: <393A934A.D5BCC0B1@tsoft-inc.com>    Bill Todd wrote: > 
 > cognoscenti   M ?????  I'm laughing so hard I don't know whether or not to feel insulted. :-)   , > But the next step (one that took me a longE > time to take, and that you don't yet seem to have taken) is that of J > appreciating that packaging up a full-function environment such that itsI > *default* choice of behaviors is as well-thought-out as RSTS's was (and H > perhaps exposed in a simplified interface layer above the nitty-grittyL > full-function layer) is just as important in making a full-function systemK > acceptable to the masses (who appear largely still to be in the place you F > were before your VMS conversion occurred, and don't seem to have anyJ > particular reason to make the kind of jump into complexity that you were > somewhat forced to make).   M Oh, I do appriciate such a system.  It's what I and other developers apply on M top of VMS to make the final system user friendly.  And with VMS, each system P can be 'tuned' to best support the particular application.  Does it require someP rather extensive abilities to do this?  You bet!  That is the difference betweenP a user attempting to set up his own system, and the user paying a 'professional'3 to set up a system that best fits the user's needs.   P This type of 'service' is not unique.  How many (and there are some) users startL with a pentium chip?  With a compiler?  With any of the stages of a computerI system as it's being put together.  So, what we're then discussing is the @ step/stage where the 'default' behavior of the system is set up.  O I feel that VMS allows this 'default' behavior to be specified at a later step, N and thus allows more flexibility.  The fact that some users bypass people likeP myself and then cry because the default behavior isn't to their liking in no wayN is the fault of the various operating systems.  For each default behavior thatK would benefit a particular user, there is an opposite default behavior that P benefits another user.  Now before you start specifying the percentages of usersO that one default would suit vs other defaults, let me state that that is not as O important as the capability of specifying specific behaviors, and while I'm not P all-knowing (gee, I didn't know THAT), it's been my experience that VMS is quiteM good at allowing many differing behaviors.  I haven't seen too much about not L allowing file caching on Unix, as one example, and no, I don't know Unix andM don't know if such is possible or not, just commenting on prior posts.  Damn, : your tendency for long run-on sentences is contagious. :-)  K > > Not everyone is running Unix design applications that benefit from file 	 > caching E > > on a single user workstation with lots of extra memory.  'Desired  > behavior'   > > isn't always easily defined. > B > No, but Unix does a pretty good job of making sure that the mostN > commonly-desired behavior (good performance for the majority of applicationsN > that just aren't concerned about *exactly* when writes occur) is the defaultD > behavior, plus makes it easy to obtain intermediate but still goodE > performance for applications that only care about what's on disk at N > particular points in their processing (by 'synching' - flushing - dirty dataM > to disk on a per-file basis), plus offers write-through operation when it's 	 > needed.   L So, are you saying that 'the majority of applications' just aren't concernedN about *exactly* when writes occur, or that Unix provides good behavior for theO majority of applications that just aren't concerned about *exactly* when writes N occur?  I'll ask for confirming statistics for the former, and for the latter,3 wonder why it's not good for all such applications.   K I notice your mention of offering write-through operations.  Is this easily  configured?   L > The utility of this isn't limited to single-user workstations with lots ofN > memory (that's just one environment that David Mathog happens to be using asK > an example):  Unix caches (NT's too, I think) grow and shrink dynamically H > according to overall system memory use - just like VMS's can (at leastK > that's planned for the EFC work, and may already exist in other VMS cache N > areas) - and are one of the tools used by the system to get the best overallN > performance out of whatever physical memory is available - just as VMS does.  P Hey, if you check prior posts, you'll not find me one of those who feel that "ifP VMS doesn't have it, it's not needed" types.  If there are good ideas out there,M then VMS should implement them such that the VMS implementation matchs if not O beats the best examples.  My feeling is that VMS is just the beginning, not the  ending.    > > Enjoy reading your posts.  > M > I hope someone does - wouldn't want this to be a complete waste of my time.  > L > As I've intimated before, I take a hard line because my experience is thatN > if you give a VMS bigot an inch (an inch that they don't deserve, anyway:  IG > try to be fair) they'll grab it and use it to assert that your entire J > argument has no basis and that VMS couldn't possibly be at a comparativeL > disadvantage in any area.  And as I've said, that kind of bunker mentalityK > is somewhat understandable, but I really believe it's counter-productive: K > in what medium if not this one should people explore how to improve areas J > that hinder VMS's wider acceptance in the marketplace?  And how can thatD > exploration (and one hopes resulting improvements) be anything butF > beneficial both to VMS and to the people who depend on its continued > viability?  P I've always felt that construtive criticism is good.  However, as a VMS bigot, IK feel that I deserve any inches that I want to grab.  Nor do I have a bunker O mentality, but rather subscribe to the philosophy of counter-attack and take no J prisoners.  So, while your 'hard line' is fine, be careful with assertionsM without substantiating evidence unless the assertion is obviously true, and I + reserve the role of sole judge of such. :-)    Have a nice day.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596; 170 Grimplin Road               E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com  Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 08:58:25 +0900 2 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com>= Subject: Re: VMS V6.2 to V7.2 upgrade disaster (VAXsta 3138). * Message-ID: <393A1A31.9684DA1@digital.com>   sms@antinode.org wrote:  > J >    Thanks for the private and public responses.  Covering the questions: ...  < lots snipped > ... I >    I may not be able to get back to this fount of fun for a week or so, H > but is there a SYSBOOT>-settable parameter which does a SET VERIFY for > the start-up procedures?  ; Try setting STARTUP_P2 to "V" for verify, or "VD" to log to  SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP.LOG   ~Mike    > J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > E >    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home) E >    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work) I >    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work) ; >    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)    --  E --------------------------------------------------------------------- E Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il* F Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 14:52:42 +0200" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>A Subject: Re: What is the simplest way to network two VMS systems? ( Message-ID: <8hdivj$2vr$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  H The easiest way is to install either DECnet phase 4 or DECnet-Plus (what used to  be phase 5 or OSI). ; Example: you use 3.1 and 3.2 with names VAX1 and VAX2 resp. L Set the SYSGEN parameters properly, especially SCSSYSTEMID which is computedE as <area>*1024 + <node>, so the SCSSYSTEMID's would be 3073 and 3074. H The name is put into SCSNODE (I'm not sure since my VAXen are still down owing to yesterday's thunderstorm).5 For phase 4 run @sys$manager:netconfig, for the other  @sys$manager:net$configure< and  use default answers except for the addresses and names. That should work. I Cluster_config may be annoying at first, but is really helpful as long as  you have a PAK5 installed on both systems for the VAXCLUSTER product. ? Off the top of my head, the following parameters must be set in  SYS$SYSTEM:MODPARAMS.DAT   SCSSYSTEMID = 3073$ SCSNODE = VAX1            ! SCSNAME? VAXCLUSTER = 1 NISCS_LOAD_PEA0 = 1 
 MSCP_LOAD = 1  MSCP_SERVE_ALL = 1  J Run @SYS$UPDATE:AUTOGEN GETDATA REBOOT NOFEEDBACK and next cluster_config.  J Make sure you check the names of the parameters and their values in SYSGEN first:   $ MC SYSGEN  SYSGEN> SHOW /SCS  SYSGEN> SHOW /CLUSTER   L lists all SCS, resp. cluster  related parameters and their actual values and permissable ranges. K Again, I cannot use a VAX right now and I never took the trouble of putting  the names of the parameters & in my own memory, so check them first.  
 Hans Vlems  ) Dan Gahlinger heeft geschreven in bericht + <393823FE.BBE6E492@itac11-sun.sprint.ca>... G >    I've looked at the openvms site for DECnet info (over 500 pages of  >it) - not read in detail yet.D >I've also tried running cluster_config myself, but it asks some odd# >questions and I'm not sure what it  >really wants. > I >What is the quickest, easiest way to get two VMS systems to talk to each  >other? A >Assuming you set up the decnet node numbers like system1-3.1 and  >system2-3.2 or something H >the tcp/ip docs look very foreboding - I've done tcp/ip on unix and pcs1 >and nowhere near as complex as this seems to be.  > I >I'd like users to be able to log onto one system and access resources on I >the other one as well, also be able to use "phone" and notes and such to H >communicate. Mail also. This seems to require full decnet connectivity.G >or would cluster_config suffice?  would tcp/ip by itself be enough and 	 >work ok?  >  >Dan.  >  >-- # >-There are always possibilities...  >  >  >    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.311 ************************