1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 06 Jun 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 315       Contents: archive solutions  Re: archive solutions + C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures  Catching SNMP traps  Re: Changing password in html?* Charon VAX on PC emulator - Asynch DECNET?. Re: Charon VAX on PC emulator - Asynch DECNET? Console Monitoring Software.  RE: Console Monitoring Software.A Re: Digital Press Books (was Re: VAXCluster Principles book ....) A Re: Digital Press Books (was Re: VAXCluster Principles book ....)  directory listing  Re: directory listing  Re: directory listing  Re: Error on analyze disk / re: Format of Help Files (SYS$HELP:HELPLIB.HLB) 2 Re: How to get a list of all Global section names?( Re: How to get all Global Section Names? ICC programming examples ?7 is anyone able to get a DE500-BA working under 6.2 1h3?  Java graphing applets for VMS  Logging On As Root Re: Logging On As Root Re: Logging On As Root MMOV 2.2 and VMS 7.1 Re: MMOV 2.2 and VMS 7.1 Re: motif debug problem A Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire) A Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire) A Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire) A Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire) A Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire) A Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire) A Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire) A Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire) A Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire) H Re: OpenVMS, SMTP, and email spam (was Re: I'm Trying to Model SomethingH Re: OpenVMS, SMTP, and email spam (was Re: I'm Trying to Model SomethingG Re: OpenVMS, SMTP, and email spam (was Re: I'm Trying to ModelSomething  Re: OSU Web Server Problems  Re: OSU Web Server Problems 4 Re: performance drop of >35% from Oracle 7.1 to 8.054 Re: performance drop of >35% from Oracle 7.1 to 8.054 Re: performance drop of >35% from Oracle 7.1 to 8.05 Porting VAX Macro code to AXP ! Re: Porting VAX Macro code to AXP ! Re: Porting VAX Macro code to AXP 9 Re: Prior version support was (Re: OpenVMS commentaries )  Re: SImple graphs fro VMS  Re: SNA & PSI support on DSV-11 * Re: SYI$_HW_NAME buffer might be too short Re: Tadpole Tuning Re: Tadpole Tuning UCX Bind database  Re: UCX Bind database  UCX Bind database  Re: vaxstation LED meanings? Re: vaxstation LED meanings? Re: vaxstation LED meanings? Re: vaxstation LED meanings? Re: vaxstation LED meanings? Re: VEST / DECmigrate  Re: VEST / DECmigrate  Re: VEST / DECmigrate 7 Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever) 8 What is analogies of UNIX "echo" command on the VAX/VMS?< Re: What is analogies of UNIX "echo" command on the VAX/VMS?< Re: What is analogies of UNIX "echo" command on the VAX/VMS?< Re: What is analogies of UNIX "echo" command on the VAX/VMS?< Re: What is analogies of UNIX "echo" command on the VAX/VMS?8 Re: What is the simplest way to network two VMS systems? Re: X Font Server for VMS = Re: X-windows/DECwindows resource file locations and GV, etc. . Re: Ӥqx~ Looks Like ChiCom SPAM to me~  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2000 18:13:19 +0100 . From: gennai@mx1.iat.cnr.it (Francesco Gennai) Subject: archive solutions) Message-ID: <6zPvSt8pkdo6@mx1.iat.cnr.it>   F I need to archive about 25.0000 fax/month (9 Gb/month not compressed) < received on our OpenVMS 7.2-1 SCSI cluster (with RAID 7000).B (The fax are in postscript format (not compressed !). I think thatL a compression on such file should reduce thefile dimension of about a factor of 10)  C Currently we use the Archive Backup Solution from Storage Solutions E Specialists, Inc. to move (monthly) all the faxes on a IBM/Aix server = that offer a generic backup/archive solution shared among all  our hosts (PC, servers, etc...)   B I need to find a dedicated solution (only for faxes archives) that; should permit an automatic retrieval of the faxes for about G (let say) 1 year and have a good flexibility also in storing the media   in some off-line safe place.  = I'm not an expertise on archive solutions, so I would receive @ all the best suggestion from this forum in terms of hardware andA software that I should/could use for a dedicated OpenVMS solution  for the above faxes needs.   Regards, Francesco Gennai  I ----------                                                     ---------- K Francesco Gennai                     Internet : francesco.gennai@iat.cnr.it M                                                 http://mail.iat.cnr.it/gennai ? IAT - CNR                            Phone    : +39-050-3152592 ? Area di Ricerca di Pisa              Fax      : +39-050-3152593  Via Alfieri, 1 56010 Ghezzano PISA   ITALY I ----------                                                     ----------    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 17:24:31 GMT  From: itjck01@my-deja.com  Subject: Re: archive solutions) Message-ID: <8hjc3o$9s7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   ) In article <6zPvSt8pkdo6@mx1.iat.cnr.it>, 1   gennai@mx1.iat.cnr.it (Francesco Gennai) wrote: G > I need to archive about 25.0000 fax/month (9 Gb/month not compressed) > > received on our OpenVMS 7.2-1 SCSI cluster (with RAID 7000).D > (The fax are in postscript format (not compressed !). I think thatG > a compression on such file should reduce thefile dimension of about a  > factor of 10)  > E > Currently we use the Archive Backup Solution from Storage Solutions G > Specialists, Inc. to move (monthly) all the faxes on a IBM/Aix server ? > that offer a generic backup/archive solution shared among all ! > our hosts (PC, servers, etc...)  > D > I need to find a dedicated solution (only for faxes archives) that= > should permit an automatic retrieval of the faxes for about B > (let say) 1 year and have a good flexibility also in storing the% >  media in some off-line safe place.  > ? > I'm not an expertise on archive solutions, so I would receive B > all the best suggestion from this forum in terms of hardware andC > software that I should/could use for a dedicated OpenVMS solution  > for the above faxes needs. > G I am not an expert in the area either, but my first take on it would be  to use HSM software < (http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/storage/hsmpage.html)@ and a DLT automated tape library unit of some type, like a TL891> (http://www.compaq.com/products/storageworks/Tape-and-Optical-  Storage/TL891_DLT_ML_Index.html)  C I believe with HSM the archived FAXes would be easily retrieved, in E that FAXes that are past a certain shelf date would be moved to tape. F And the DLT ATL would offer compatibility with OpenVMS along with very solid backup and retrieval.   > You could probably go with a lesser DLT ATL, if performance in retrieval is not needed.   :) jck   --$ Free personal opinion is what I post    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2000 10:39:59 CDT = From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.044962.killspam.0138 (Wayne Sewell) 4 Subject: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures. Message-ID: <9tSzFo7QOyun@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  _ In article <4.3.2.7.0.20000605150202.01c6da80@24.8.96.48>, Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> writes: 1 > At 11:59 AM 6/5/00 -0400, David A Froble wrote: L >>Exactly!  This is what makes C inappropriate for applications development. > 7 > C was never designed as an app development language,    = Actually, it was never designed at all, as far as I can tell.    >and it's a pretty  K > pathetic one. It lacks the features you'd usually want in an application  J > development language, and its standard library's badly suited for it as N > well. C's a low-level systems language, meant for writing compilers, device J > drivers, OS kernel bits, and suchlike things, and it's not bad at that.     H I would amend that to say it's meant for writing such stuff *in a hackerI fashion*.  (I am of course using the term "hacker" in the original sense; N nothing to do with malicious intent.)   While C does have low level access forO stuff, this is not to say that strongly-typed languages do not.  I have written K compilers in Pascal and also kernel mode code.  You have to be careful with M what you do and make sure that you don't reference any RTL routines, but this O would apply to C as well.  I would say that Bliss can do *anything* that C can, J and probably more, but will tend to prevent stupid typos from crashing the system.   J I would say that using a real language is *more* important for kernel modeL stuff than for applications, because the cost of failure is so much greater,@ i.e. crashing the entire system instead of just the application.    G Speaking of compilers, they are no different from applications from the N viewpoint of the system and the machine code.  They execute in user mode, readG an input file, and create an output file.  You can write compilers in a * strongly typed language as easily as in C.  M C was intended for people who don't want the compiler to "get in the way" and N prefer that it let them do anything, whether correct code is generated or not.M Strangely, they prefer to defer their errors to run time, where they are much N harder to diagnose.  Sure the compile is faster.  Good thing, because you haveO to compile so many more times to correct errors that would have been trapped in 8 the first compile by Pascal or the Countess (see below).  F Note that we are talking about differences in *compilation* speed, notF *execution* speed of the generated code.  Depending on the compiler, aL strongly-typed language can generate code as good as or better than a sloppyJ one such as C.  Most of it depends on the back end.  Admittedly, it may beJ possible to generate slightly tighter code with a simpler (more primitive)L language such as C, but an industrial strength back end such as GEM makes upO for this to a large extent.  Both Compaq C and Compaq Pascal use GEM on alpha.  N I would be surprised if there is that much difference in the generated machine code for a given algorithm.        >It M > leans a bit too heavily on the speed side of the speed/safety tradeoff for  F > my tastes, but it was developed on hardware that is, at this point,  > terribly slow.  M That's an excuse for the original sad state of C, but not for C today.  The C I standards committee had a chance to fix this stuff.  Admittedly, they did M improve the language somewhat, since ANSI C will at least do *some* checking, E unlike the K & R shit,  but C still lets a lot of stuff slip through.     I Admittedly, there *is* a run time performance hit for stuff such as array J bounds checking.  This would fall into the speed/safety tradeoff mentionedI above.   Seems like 95% percent of the C run time errors I have found are M related to exceeding a local stack-based string variable and wildwriting into K the stack.  At least in Pascal you have the option of checking array bounds M during development, then you can turn it off when the program is released for  production.      > B > Don't knock C for being a bad app language, since it isn't one.   F I consider it a bad language for any purpose.  But I'm stuck with it. O Unfortunately, it's been so long since I've used Pascal that it would take time  to come back up to speed on it.    >Knock the  K > twits that insist on using it as an app language--that's where the blame   > rightly lies.    Agreed.   J > (I'm still not particularly fond of the language, mind, but its biggest F > problem is its mis-application, not in any fundamental design flaws)  O Disagreed.   It was fine for the hacker days when people were just playing with N computers, but not for production systems in *any* role.   Admittedly, eunuchsH systems don't have anything to replace it for kernel code, but vms does.    J The Countess referred to above is Augusta Ada Byron, Countess of Lovelace,5 daughter of Lord Byron.  Also known as just Ada.  :-)    --  O =============================================================================== M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx : http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O =============================================================================== C Jake Blues: "Sell me your children!  How much for the little girl?"    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 19:56:43 +0200, From: "Peter Grevel" <p.grevel@inter.nl.net> Subject: Catching SNMP traps, Message-ID: <8hjdff$pej$1@porthos.nl.uu.net>  L When a hardware device is capable of sending SNMP traps/messages,  how can I 'catch' then by using UCX.  J When I have catch the SNMP trap/message how can I use it in e.g. a commandJ file. Is this a native feature of UCX or do I have to program some kind of program.  7 We're using TCP/IP Services v5.0A under OpenVMS v7.2-1.    Thanks Peter Grevel   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 12:35:32 GMT / From: "Tom Wade" <t.wade@vms.eurokom.ie.nospam> ' Subject: Re: Changing password in html? . Message-ID: <oe6%4.1269$QT5.23525@news.iol.ie>  E David Pattenden wrote in message <39379943.AD531EC2@wilco-int.com>... 7 >I'm trying to change my vms password using html forms. - >Can anybody point me in the right direction?  >(I'm a complete vms novice)    ( For an example CGI script to do this see# ftp://picard.eurokom.ie/setpass.zip   G This program works with the OSU webserver, and *does* call the security ; routines to activate breakin evasion for password guessers.   L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --A Tom Wade    | EMail: T.Wade@vms.eurokom.ie  (all domain mailers). G EuroKom     | X400:  g=tom;s=wade;o=eurokom;p=eurokom;a=eirmail400;c=ie & 30, Dale Rd | Tel:   +353 (1) 278-7878& Stillorgan  | Fax:   +353 (1) 278-78793 Co Dublin   | Disclaimer:  This is not a disclaimer @ Ireland     | Tip:         "Friends don't let friends do Unix !"   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 10:07:37 GMT % From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> 3 Subject: Charon VAX on PC emulator - Asynch DECNET? ) Message-ID: <8hiih1$m8q$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   > I've just been playing with the demo version of the Charon VAX? emulator and pretty neat it is too. Just wondering: I know that > ethernet is not supported under the demo version but as serial= comms is suppported has anyone tried starting Phase IV asynch 8 decnet? Is asynch decnet supported on opa0: in any case?  ; It really is neat though watching VMS boot up on a standard 4 laptop and it really isn't all that dog slow either.  9 Now to beg/steal/borrow a libretto (the shirt pocket PC).    --
 Alan Greig    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 13:35:57 GMT 1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> 7 Subject: Re: Charon VAX on PC emulator - Asynch DECNET? 1 Message-ID: <393CFE21.C159172@clarityconnect.com>    No it is not supported.    Alan Greig wrote:  > 2 > Is asynch decnet supported on opa0: in any case? >    --  D Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 13:55:26 +02003 From: "Stuart Symonds" <Stuart.Symonds@t-online.de> % Subject: Console Monitoring Software. / Message-ID: <8hir38$mpo$11$1@news.t-online.com>    Hi,   K Today I learnt that a product called TNG Console Manager developed first by L Digital and now by Computer Associates is being dropped. TNG Console ManagerL is a fine product and from my understanding is in fairly wide spread use. CAJ have developed there own none VMS version that runs under NT but from whatL I've heard is only half as capable as the older product and twice the price!  K I have heard of one VMS based product called Console Works by TECSYS, is it  any good, and are there others?    Please reply via Email.    Thanks in advance.   Stuart.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 10:29:42 -0300u1 From: "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com>h) Subject: RE: Console Monitoring Software. K Message-ID: <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A024696@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>n  > You may wish to look at DTCS, information may be obtained from DTCS-SUPPORT@COMPAQ.COMl - Darren   > ----------8 > From: 	Stuart Symonds[SMTP:Stuart.Symonds@t-online.de] > Reply To: 	Stuart Symondsb' > Sent: 	Tuesday, June 06, 2000 8:55 AMR > To: 	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com( > Subject: 	Console Monitoring Software. >  > Hi,e > J > Today I learnt that a product called TNG Console Manager developed first > byF > Digital and now by Computer Associates is being dropped. TNG Console	 > ManagerlK > is a fine product and from my understanding is in fairly wide spread use.E > CAL > have developed there own none VMS version that runs under NT but from whatG > I've heard is only half as capable as the older product and twice the  > price! > J > I have heard of one VMS based product called Console Works by TECSYS, is > it! > any good, and are there others?m >  > Please reply via Email.n >  > Thanks in advance. > 	 > Stuart.i >  >     F **********************************************************************C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential andeJ may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.M They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom theydL are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copying  of this message is prohibited.   Bank of BermudaoF **********************************************************************   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2000 13:10:30 GMTr2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)J Subject: Re: Digital Press Books (was Re: VAXCluster Principles book ....)6 Message-ID: <8hit86$cbb$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  \ In article <8hh5ge$1fd9$1@Mercury.mcs.net>, rjordan@Mercury.mcs.net (Richard Jordan) writes:9 :>   If you have an idea for a book, contact DP directly.e  I   If you want to propose a book, please contact the BH/DP folks directly.b  A :Someone already did, but BH canceled it just before publication. 8 :"OpenVMS and the Internet", I believe, was the title.    D   After the original discussion around the apparent cancellation of E   the "OpenVMS and the Internet" book was posted, I checked directly a   with the purported author.  I   The "OpenVMS and the Internet" book was apparently never even remotely s   near publication.t  G :I still wish they'd do a book like this (perhaps waiting on Apache to iI :be final), but I'd love to know why the canceled it.  I had pre-ordered f :it...  H   The "OpenVMS and the Internet" book was reportedly a proposal, and oneL   that had apparently never been accepted nor scheduled (nor work started), J   and the author had no idea how the (withdrawn) proposal ever got to the J   stage where it was apparently orderable.  (I posted similar information D   in response to the earlier discussion of the status of this book.)  J   All that said, I will be covering some of the very basic Apache-related H   stuff (eg: acquisition, basic installation and configuration) as well G   as some equivilent basic IP installation and configuration in the DP  J   book I am currently working on (much like the CGI coverage I had in the H   DCL book, effectively little more than a very a basic introduction to I   the area), but Apache and the Internet are quite obviously huge topics tK   -- there is no way that any book that is not specific to Apache can even cJ   begin to cover it in any detail, much less attempting to cover anything G   even remotely approaching the size of a topic such as "the Internet".u  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2000 09:36:22 -0500i, From: rjordan@Venus.mcs.net (Richard Jordan)J Subject: Re: Digital Press Books (was Re: VAXCluster Principles book ....)) Message-ID: <8hj296$2iif$1@Venus.mcs.net>o   Hoff wrote:   ] -In article <8hh5ge$1fd9$1@Mercury.mcs.net>, rjordan@Mercury.mcs.net (Richard Jordan) writes:a - 9 -:"OpenVMS and the Internet", I believe, was the title.    - E -  After the original discussion around the apparent cancellation of  F -  the "OpenVMS and the Internet" book was posted, I checked directly  -  with the purported author.  -tJ -  The "OpenVMS and the Internet" book was apparently never even remotely  -  near publication. -d   Hoff, F      thanks for the info.  I posted about the book last time, but the C message I saw in response was you saying you'd ask about it.  Given B the freeware-based peecee hardware cheapnet my ISP uses, perhaps I< should not be surprised that not all the news makes it here.  H -:I still wish they'd do a book like this (perhaps waiting on Apache to J -:be final), but I'd love to know why the canceled it.  I had pre-ordered  -:it...n -)I -  The "OpenVMS and the Internet" book was reportedly a proposal, and oneeM -  that had apparently never been accepted nor scheduled (nor work started), fK -  and the author had no idea how the (withdrawn) proposal ever got to the  K -  stage where it was apparently orderable.  (I posted similar information  E -  in response to the earlier discussion of the status of this book.)   E Sorry, I never saw any response on this after you mentioned you would  try to find out. n3 I did call BH when Amazon canceled my pre-order and D was told that the book was a project in work that was canceled priorC to publication, so somebody somewhere definitely had some bad info.v  F I'm sorry to have made you repost this.  I do hope (and will so inform? BH) that a book of this nature be reconsidered for publication.    - K -  All that said, I will be covering some of the very basic Apache-related gI -  stuff (eg: acquisition, basic installation and configuration) as well cH -  as some equivilent basic IP installation and configuration in the DP K -  book I am currently working on (much like the CGI coverage I had in the  I -  DCL book, effectively little more than a very a basic introduction to eJ -  the area), but Apache and the Internet are quite obviously huge topics L -  -- there is no way that any book that is not specific to Apache can even K -  begin to cover it in any detail, much less attempting to cover anything rH -  even remotely approaching the size of a topic such as "the Internet".  E I'm glad to hear that more info will be forthcoming.  I do think thattB if you intersect the set "The Internet" with the set "OpenVMS" youF get a much more manageable topic though, and hope for a tome that willI cover that topic more intensively.  Even if it focused on VMS apache onlywI (I'd prefer coverage for OSU/WASD also, but I can be somewhat realistic).u, Thanks again for taking the time to respond.   Rich Jordana rjordan@mcs.nete   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 14:26:06 GMT9 From: torlet@my-deja.com Subject: directory listing) Message-ID: <8hj1la$19g$1@nnrp1.deja.com>n   Hello,E In fortran (sorry) i try to apply the same treatment on all the filesoE of a directory. I am looking for a function to search a directory fore all the files... ..Can someone show me the way?    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.a   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2000 15:17:04 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: directory listing6 Message-ID: <8hj4lg$he8$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  D In article <8hj1la$19g$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, torlet@my-deja.com writes: :Hello,rF :In fortran (sorry) i try to apply the same treatment on all the filesF :of a directory. I am looking for a function to search a directory for :all the files...  :..Can someone show me the way?e  ;   Please see the lib$find_file and lib$find_file_end calls..  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 11:07:15 -0400y* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: directory listing- Message-ID: <393D13A3.855C1672@tsoft-inc.com>c   torlet@my-deja.com wrote:w >  > Hello,G > In fortran (sorry) i try to apply the same treatment on all the filesaG > of a directory. I am looking for a function to search a directory fora > all the files...  > ..Can someone show me the way? > ( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy..  # lib$find_file and lib$find_file_endo   -- e4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 00 10:10:42 PST  From: mckinneyj@cpva.saic.comt" Subject: Re: Error on analyze disk( Message-ID: <W9elcH5hlg1e@cpva.saic.com>  . In article <393C3A0F.10622349@tsoft-inc.com>, -  David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: L > Having a problem with analyzing a disk.  I believe the error report is notM > valid, and am not sure what the real problem is.  Note the attempt below toaN > analyze DISK6, a subsequent attempt to analyze DISK5 (successfully), and the# > page file information.  VMS V7.2.  >  > $ ana/disk disk6! > Error allocating virtual memory  > Insufficient virtual memorye >  > $ sho dev/full disk6 >  aK > Disk DFE$DKA600:, device type SEAGATE ST15150N, is online, mounted, file-i; >     oriented device, shareable, error logging is enabled.i >   Q >     Error count                    0    Operations completed               1331EQ >     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                      [SYSTEM] Q >     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot            S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,WcQ >     Reference count               20    Default buffer size                 512eQ >     Total blocks             8388315    Sectors per track                   108rQ >     Total cylinders             3699    Tracks per cylinder                  21a >   Q >     Volume label             "DISK6"    Relative volume number                0hQ >     Cluster size                   1    Transaction count                    20aQ >     Free blocks              4703597    Maximum files allowed           2097078fQ >     Extend quantity                5    Mount count                           1uQ >     Mount status              System    Cache name         "_DFE$DKA0:XQPCACHE"iQ >     Extent cache size             64    Maximum blocks in extent cache   470359eQ >     File ID cache size            64    Blocks currently in extent cache 355929tQ >     Quota cache size               0    Maximum buffers in FCP cache        458lQ >     Volume owner UIC           [1,1]    Vol Prot    S:RWCD,O:RWCD,G:RWCD,W:RWCD  >   R >   Volume Status:  ODS-2, subject to mount verification, file high-water marking,# >       write-back caching enabled.I >  u [...snip...] >  > $ sho dev/full disk5 >  sK > Disk DFE$DKA500:, device type SEAGATE ST15150N, is online, mounted, file-t; >     oriented device, shareable, error logging is enabled.  >  aQ >     Error count                    0    Operations completed                104iQ >     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                      [SYSTEM]iQ >     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot            S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W Q >     Reference count                1    Default buffer size                 512 Q >     Total blocks             8388315    Sectors per track                   108 Q >     Total cylinders             3699    Tracks per cylinder                  21, >  tQ >     Volume label             "DISK5"    Relative volume number                0=Q >     Cluster size                   9    Transaction count                     1nQ >     Free blocks              2255310    Maximum files allowed            419415wQ >     Extend quantity            20000    Mount count                           1sQ >     Mount status              System    Cache name         "_DFE$DKA0:XQPCACHE"=Q >     Extent cache size             64    Maximum blocks in extent cache   225531wQ >     File ID cache size            64    Blocks currently in extent cache      02Q >     Quota cache size               0    Maximum buffers in FCP cache        458 Q >     Volume owner UIC           [1,1]    Vol Prot    S:RWCD,O:RWCD,G:RWCD,W:RWCDi >  aR >   Volume Status:  ODS-2, subject to mount verification, file high-water marking,# >       write-back caching enabled.  >    > $ ana/disk disk5L > Analyze/Disk_Structure for _DFE$DKA500: started on  5-JUN-2000 12:54:11.32 >  r > Error opening QUOTA.SYSP > No such file >  >  [...snip...] > B > The problem appears to be specific to this one disk.  Any ideas? >  > Dave >   @ 	I suspect that the "Error allocating virtual memory" message isB 	most likely accurate. I notice that the maximum files for each of> 	your two disks differs by quite a bit. The failing one allows= 	2million; the other 400k. I haven't looked at the source for @ 	VERIFY but I suspect that it probably maps the indexf.sys file.* 	Have you tried increasing your pgflquota?   -- C - Jimp   ------------------------------  " Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 14:21:40 GMT, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)8 Subject: re: Format of Help Files (SYS$HELP:HELPLIB.HLB)+ Message-ID: <UDB+VtQOgDhl@eisner.decus.org>-  i In article <009EB283.158B5945.11@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>, Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> writes:i >> Hans Bachner wrote: >> 4H >> Shouldn't DECpaq make it easy for users to ports bits of VMS to otherN >> platforms by documenting the format of these files so that one enterprisingQ >> person could port the library routines to Unix for instance and be able to use $ >> .HLB files on both VMS and UNIX ? > ? > No. Why? .HLB is akin to .OBJ on any other system. However ifeN > you are determined, this form of "object" code can be reverse-compiled back J > to source, and the source is not hard to further process into man pages.  ? Excelent choice for making Hans' point.  The object language ISo documented in the LINK manual.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationa= Hubble Space Telescope Payload  | Federal Sector, Civil GroupaE  Flight Software Team           | please remove ".aspm" when replyingt   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2000 14:26:12 GMTh- From: "Phil Tregoning" <ptregoni@esoc.esa.de>t; Subject: Re: How to get a list of all Global section names?-= Message-ID: <01bfcfc1$a23233a0$4b53b083@ptregoni.esoc.esa.de>   H thirunavur@my-deja.com wrote in article <8h5vvn$2jc$1@nnrp1.deja.com>...C > I need to get a list of all the Global Section names created in arE > system. I could get the list using  SHOW GSD command through System H > Dump Analyzer. But is there a way to read them directly in a C/Fortran/ > program? Any help will be highly appreciated.k >   > This may not work and could crash your system. It accesses the3 GSD lists without any locking. It does work for me.i  7 On a VAX you need to link it against SYS$SYSTEM:SYS.STB-' On an Alpha you need to link it /SYSEXE0  ; I don't think you'll see a name for global sections created:8 with a PFN map, as the name is stored in an extended GSD< which isn't looked at in this code. You may well not have of
 those though.n   Phil g     #include <stdio.h> #include <stdlib.h>m #include <string.h>e #include <ssdef.h> #include <starlet.h>   struct gsd_t {   struct gsd_t *flink;   struct gsd_t *blink;   unsigned short size;   unsigned char type;h #ifdef __VAX   unsigned char hash;h #else    unsigned char reserved;    unsigned int hash; #endif   unsigned int pcbuic;   unsigned int filuic; #ifdef __VAX   unsigned short prot;   unsigned short gstx; #else    unsigned int prot;   unsigned int gstx; #endif   unsigned int ident;-   unsigned int orb;    unsigned int ipid; #ifdef __VAX   unsigned short flags;n #elsee   unsigned int flags;  #endif   unsigned char namesize;t   char name[44]; };  $ extern struct gsd_t EXE$GL_GSDGRPFL;$ extern struct gsd_t EXE$GL_GSDSYSFL;$ extern struct gsd_t EXE$GL_GSDDELFL;  C int krnl_memcpy(void *dest, const void *source, unsigned int size);mI int krnl_memcpy_work(unsigned int dest, unsigned int source, unsigned into size);1 void read_gsds(char *type, struct gsd_t *header);-    int main(int argc, char *argv[]) {o'   read_gsds("Group", &EXE$GL_GSDGRPFL);a(   read_gsds("System", &EXE$GL_GSDSYSFL);)   read_gsds("Deleted", &EXE$GL_GSDDELFL);    return 0;m }e  0 void read_gsds(char *type, struct gsd_t *header) {    struct gsd_t *gsd_ptr;   struct gsd_t gsd_copy;     gsd_ptr = header->flink;     while(gsd_ptr != header) {6     krnl_memcpy(&gsd_copy, gsd_ptr, sizeof(gsd_copy));A     printf("%s: %.*s\n", type, gsd_copy.namesize, gsd_copy.name);      gsd_ptr = gsd_copy.flink;n   }  }e  B int krnl_memcpy(void *dest, const void *source, unsigned int size) {h   unsigned int arglist[4];   arglist[0] = 3; "   arglist[1] = (unsigned int)dest;$   arglist[2] = (unsigned int)source;"   arglist[3] = (unsigned int)size;  /   return sys$cmkrnl(krnl_memcpy_work, arglist);d }t  I int krnl_memcpy_work(unsigned int dest, unsigned int source, unsigned ints size)v { -   memcpy((void *)dest, (void *)source, size);u   return SS$_NORMAL; }n   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2000 13:25:42 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)1 Subject: Re: How to get all Global Section Names?r6 Message-ID: <8hiu4m$cnb$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  \ In article <393C1BDF.5B80678@wcom.com>, Arasu Ramalingam <arasu.ramalingam@wcom.com> writes:I :I am working on a problem which requires me to get a list of all (Group) B :Global Sections existing in a OpenVMS AXP system and monitor themG :periodically. I could get a listing through System Dump Analyzer usingiH :SHOW GSD/GROUP at DCL level, and read that listing file through spawingE :a subprocess. Instead of doing this in a round about way, is there a I :better method or system service/utility to get the Global Section names?i :I will appreciate any help.  9   Short answer: there is no supported interface for this.S  K   Long answer: you need to traverse the GSD data structures in kernel mode  J   to do this.  This isn't particularly difficult, but it does require the L   application be linked against the OpenVMS Alpha base image.  (Which means M   that the application is version-dependent, and can require source rebuilds SK   or redesigns if/when/should kernel data structures change.)  And it also iF   means that if you should make a boo-boo, said boo-boo can trigger an8   OpenVMS system crash or a kernel-mode data corruption.  H   If you are familiar with SDA, then the group global section listheads G   are EXE$GL_GSDGRPFL/...GRPBL and EXE$GL_GSDDELFL/...BL (the latter ispH   the delete-pending list) will be of interest.  You can use SDA to walkI   these structures, and get an idea of what these look like.  On OpenVMS rI   Galaxy, EXE$GL_GLXGRPFL/...BL will be of interest.  Replace GRP in the uJ   symbols with SYS for the system global sections.  If you should want to J   walk the chain, acquire the EXE$GL_GSDMTX mutex for read.  Most of this G   stuff is covered in some detail in the Internals and Data Structures aF   Manuals -- though the OpenVMS Galaxy shared memory is not, it works 2   similarly to the other section management stuff.  F   The supported interfaces for acquiring this information are SDA and F   INSTALL LIST/GLOBAL, though parsing the output of these commands is    NOT supported.  I   Ask The Wizard answer: There was to be an answer appearing via the Ask yG   The Wizard mechanism, but I'll ask that the discussion over there be hL   nuked.  (Per the Ask The Wizard rules, please do not cross-post questions K   between the Ask The Wizard area and the newsgroups.  Yes, cross-postings aI   are noticed.  No, they do not encourage faster answers -- if you need a-J   an answer or if you need a faster answer than the week-or-two turnaroundG   in the Wizard area, I would encourage direct contact with the Compaq i$   customer support center.  Thanks!)  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 11:21:50 -0400s- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t# Subject: ICC programming examples ?s, Message-ID: <393D1704.A039268C@videotron.ca>  E Are there any ICC (intra cluster communications) programming examples ' available ? (server and client sides) ?.  M Also, what was the reasoning behind the selction of a non QIO based interface M ? It would have made things much simpler/versatile for programs to have a QIO M interface which would have enabled a single program to handle mailbox, decnetu* and ICC connections with much shared code.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 13:09:18 GMTt+ From: "The Youngun" <ftg_dts@earthlink.net> @ Subject: is anyone able to get a DE500-BA working under 6.2 1h3?B Message-ID: <2K6%4.603$2X2.30534@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  E Is anyone able to get a DE500-BA working under Open VMS 6.2 1H3 on ana AlphaServer 800?  4 Per COMPAQ, the following patches have been applied:   alpclusio01i	 alpcliu03e alplan05	 alpboot12o   Thanks in advance, The Youngune   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 13:56:47 -0400n From: jlahman@LTVSteel.com& Subject: Java graphing applets for VMS8 Message-ID: <852568F6.0062A658.00@notesnta.LTVSteel.com>   Hi all:a  O We want to present production data to the end users in a graphical format via a J browser.  There are graphical java applets available for Unix and Windoze.< However, I have not seen any graphical java applets for VMS.  P Has anybody ported any of these graphical java appliets to VMS? or are there any) graphical java applets available for VMS?e   Thanks   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 16:49:43 GMTl% From: hx_101@hotmail.com (Horse Nuts)a Subject: Logging On As Roott+ Message-ID: <393d2b4a.82121364@news.dal.ca>c  B Ok, being a Compaq UNIX dude, how the hell do you logon as root in0 VMS?????? Also, how do I move to the root dir???  F Thanks, I know this is a stupid question, but this is my first time at the VMS stuff....    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 13:09:05 -0400t" From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> Subject: Re: Logging On As Rooto: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000606130614.01c82220@24.8.96.48>  + At 04:49 PM 6/6/00 +0000, Horse Nuts wrote:tC >Ok, being a Compaq UNIX dude, how the hell do you logon as root ini	 >VMS?????"  ! The equivalent account is SYSTEM.b  ' >Also, how do I move to the root dir???i  K Root directory of which disk? VMS doesn't jam all its drives into a single  $ tree, instead leaving them separate.  = To get to the top-level directory of your current drive, try:    SET DEFAULT [000000]  G >Thanks, I know this is a stupid question, but this is my first time at0 >the VMS stuff....  G HELP. HELP is your friend. Also try reading through the User's Manual, j available off the doc site. : (http://www.openvms.digital.com:8000/index.html) The FAQ, N http://www.openvms.digital.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html is a good read as well.   					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"-------------------/2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and evend;                                       teddy bears get drunks   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 16:14:14 +0000 (   )a3 From: Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com>H Subject: Re: Logging On As Root I Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10006061607430.2476-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com>   % On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Horse Nuts wrote:   D > Ok, being a Compaq UNIX dude, how the hell do you logon as root in2 > VMS?????? Also, how do I move to the root dir???  ; Well, to log in as root, you have to make a root account ;)-  C Seriously, though, on VMS, the account you want is SYSTEM. (Be veryd	 careful!)c  I I have a friend who made a privelege-less "root" account on his vax, just0 to confuse people.  > The "root" directory on any given device is [000000], or [0,0]E (abbreviated).  Generally you won't need to change to this directory, H since the only things that are kept there are subdirectories (of course)H and thing that are maintained by the system (files that hold information on disk structure, etc...)  : Do you mind if I ask whether this is work-related or play?  H > Thanks, I know this is a stupid question, but this is my first time at > the VMS stuff....   H Good luck -- speaking as somebody who learned unix first, it's difficult4 to get used to, but it has some very nice qualities.   Regards,   Christ  O ===============================================================================-@ "My two cents"			(http://rootworks.com/twocentsworth.cgi?128562)= Christopher Smith(chriss@pubserv.com)			Prgramer^W ProgrammerD Prime Synergy of Champaign, IL. % -------------------------------------.I "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes andwH weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes; and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949 aO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2000 17:06:38 +0100 T From: pmoreau@cenaath.cena.dgac.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.64.40) Subject: MMOV 2.2 and VMS 7.1i! Message-ID: <7a1+fuLOFdUc@gaelic>,  M Multimedia Services for OpenVMS is available on the June CD's with support of 1 Ensoniq card and DSx0 workstations and servers !!t  M The minimum OVMS version is 7.1-2, but is there a chance to see it working oneK 7.1H1 ? (My Home Alpha 255 runs 7.1-1H1 with a good stability and if I can   avoid an update ...)   TIAO   Patrickc --  O =============================================================================== O pmoreau@cena.dgac.fr  (CENA)     ______      ___   _           (Patrick MOREAU) 4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/            http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 12:17:08 -04005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>e! Subject: Re: MMOV 2.2 and VMS 7.1e+ Message-ID: <8hj8p8$ni4$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>c  @ Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.64.40 wrote in message <7a1+fuLOFdUc@gaelic>...K >Multimedia Services for OpenVMS is available on the June CD's with supportD of2 >Ensoniq card and DSx0 workstations and servers !! > K >The minimum OVMS version is 7.1-2, but is there a chance to see it working  onK >7.1H1 ? (My Home Alpha 255 runs 7.1-1H1 with a good stability and if I cant >avoid an update ...)s >l    K You really want to upgrade to V7.1-2, it's really not all that painful, and K is mostly bugfixes.  I'm not sure if the kit checks for V7.1-2 as a minimum  or not.  It probably does.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2000 07:15:10 GMTi- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)   Subject: Re: motif debug problem5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-mvGQR9OYzOYY@localhost>u  3 On Sun, 5 Jun 3900 23:20:04, manser@decus.de wrote:   F ====================================================================== > here are my questions  >  >  > 1) what is going wrong ?8 > 2) how can i use the normal (not the motif) debugger ? >  > thanks for any help   3 I can't answer Q.1 but Q.2 should be something liker        define dbg$decw$input ""       define dbg$decw$output ""  D I'm at home so can't check. It is properly documented the the DEBUG / manual and may even available from  HELP DEBUG.    Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2000 06:17:51 GMTE2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)J Subject: Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire), Message-ID: <8hi52f$qbf@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  k In article <8hh0l0$5v1$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:nN >:I would like to see a complete "Porting to VMS" manual.  This would probablyP >:also be of use to ISVs who can't get enough VMS resource to be able to tackle - >:a port of their software to the VMS market./ >kH >  Part of this is tied into the COE work, which is an environment that G >  makes porting C code from Sun Solaris over to OpenVMS rather simple.. >p  F Actually, for many programs its already very simple. (Depending on theH complexity of the Makefile and how well the code is written.)  The C RTL8 is much better than it used to be.  However the problemsC that keep biting me are relatively few, but also relatively hard toa correct:  1   1.  select() works differently -> major rewritet)   2.  fork() works differently -> rewritet@   3.  IO techniques may implicitly depend on file caching and/orB       run like slugs on OpenVMS. -> much debugging to find problemI       areas, possibility that no amount of tweaking will make performanceoB       acceptably fast.  (Especially with programs that do a ton of#       manipulation of small files.)oE   4. "records" are >64k, which makes RMS very unhappy. -> ifdef's allrD      over the place and dig, dig, dig for the sections of code whichC      trigger these problems.  They can be very hard to find, buriedoG      in sections of code which don't execute until you're demonstrating !      the program to somebody :-(.t  G COE may take care of 1,2 and possibly the make problems.  The new cache K system may or may not take care of 3.  As for 4, we'll, I've not even heardeE rumors.  So maybe this stuff gets fixed by 2001, or maybe not.  That  H glacial pace of change may be ok for some shops, but it's a killer here,J and I doubt we'll be using OpenVMS for anything except possibly the publicK interfaces within a year or two.  I'm a VMS bigot of the highest order, but-J the OS simply doesn't cut it for my work any more.  Plain and simple it isA impossible to justify OpenVMS when Linux (which costs us nothing) G outperforms it by one to two orders of magnitude on many tests, and hasrG never been more than a few percent behind on _any_ comparison test that 
 I've run.    > I >:My fear, as I've stated before and still seems to be the case, is that eN >:although VMS Engineering is working hard to give customers new developments M >:and improvements and guaranteed support for x number of years and the other@N >:excellent stuff that they're doing, there are significant numbers of people N >:out there in "User Land" that won't believe that there's any committment to M >:VMS anyway and it's all just a big show by Compaq before they pull the rug r* >:out from under all of their customers.   > E >  The ten and fifteen year commitment letters should be interesting, E >  but the only real cure is the continued support (and enhancements)oB >  for OpenVMS and various direct visits and updates from OpenVMS 5 >  management and engineering.  (And from marketing.)l >c  F There's that.  But unfortunately at this point the engineering is alsoI a problem for us.  In fact, more of a problem.  One can justify a system nC which performs well no matter how bad its press (hard to do, but iftI you can put up the numbers to prove equality or superiority, you can makeuI an argument).  How am I supposed to justify OpenVMS when Linux so clearlydI outperforms it on so many typical jobs, which are severely IO limited on  K OpenVMS?  I'm not talking a few precent, I'm talking factors of 10 and 100.iI And what does run often bombs out due to 64k limits sprinkled willy nillyeJ through the OS.  (Example: write() blowing up when sending a buffer biggerK than that through the TCP/IP stack.) So the 9 node DS10 cluster runs Linux,oJ and even if somehow the licenses to run OpenVMS on them suddenly appeared,G it just wouldn't make sense to do so given current performance levels. s  L OpenVMS still makes sense for huge applications, where IO has to be tweaked H out by hand or transaction integrity is required, or uptime requirementsH are severe.  But for general computing, not  only is OpenVMS overpriced, it's now also underpowered.   5 Really, really, sorry to be able to say all that :-(.    David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edud? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech LJ **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 12:32:54 +0100i- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>iJ Subject: Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire)) Message-ID: <393CE166.F62E104B@bbc.co.uk>   c > In article <802568F2.0041F477.00@qedilc01.qedi.quintiles.com>, steven.reece@quintiles.com writes:] >( >iH > :A pet peeve at the moment is the issue of Prior Version Support.  TheF > :UK CSC is apparently going to support VMS v7.1, 7.1-1h1 and 7.1-1h2H > :without the backup of VMS Engineering following the 1st of July 2000. >N >A  Q Steve, where did you hear this?  When you say "support" do you mean prior versionf% support or standard contract support?)  2 Tim, trying to persuade mgmt to let me u/g to 7.2.   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukw  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those oft MedAS or the BBC.P   ------------------------------  " Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 15:01:30 GMT* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)J Subject: Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire)+ Message-ID: <hDa+dY7YNfQk@eisner.decus.org>h  a In article <8hi52f$qbf@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:e   > N > OpenVMS still makes sense for huge applications, where IO has to be tweaked J > out by hand or transaction integrity is required, or uptime requirementsJ > are severe.  But for general computing, not  only is OpenVMS overpriced, > it's now also underpowered.  > 7 > Really, really, sorry to be able to say all that :-(.i >    	David,d  > 	I understand your frustration but no offense intended but you? 	live in a very small world.  According to Shannon (if I recalliA 	correctly) , 90% of VMS nodes out there are in clusters.  Again, A 	I may be misremembering that figure but gotta take a chance.  Ifl> 	so, we can expect that most of the storage those clusters are> 	accessing is/are via controllers (HSJ, HSZ , etc.. know whereA 	I'm going with this).  So turn on write back caching at the unitt< 	level and if you are worried about data integrity make sure9 	you shadow across separate controllers in separate cabs.b  A 	Linux is great and Linux is fast, yada yada.   But Linux doesn'te? 	have 4 or 5 nodes in a shared disk cluster.  Shared disk?  Whou 	needs shared disk....   	And on and on we go...    	Yeee HAAAAAA!!!!!   				Robi   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 13:19:50 GMT 1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> J Subject: Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire)2 Message-ID: <393CFA5B.AA5CD1AA@clarityconnect.com>  C Please see http://www.openvms.digital.com/extsup.html for a look ate< support plans that have been in place since well before Y2K.   Tim Llewellyn wrote: > e > > In article <802568F2.0041F477.00@qedilc01.qedi.quintiles.com>, steven.reece@quintiles.com writes:e > >e > >oJ > > :A pet peeve at the moment is the issue of Prior Version Support.  TheH > > :UK CSC is apparently going to support VMS v7.1, 7.1-1h1 and 7.1-1h2J > > :without the backup of VMS Engineering following the 1st of July 2000. > >h > >k > S > Steve, where did you hear this?  When you say "support" do you mean prior versionq' > support or standard contract support?  > 4 > Tim, trying to persuade mgmt to let me u/g to 7.2. >  > --8 > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project2 > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.C > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukz > C > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  > MedAS or the BBC..   -- CD Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 15:10:00 +0100I- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> J Subject: Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire)) Message-ID: <393D0638.F5DD2E8B@bbc.co.uk>e   "Mark D. Jilson" wrote:   d > Please see http://www.openvms.digital.com/extsup.html for a look atsupport plans that have been in > place since well before Y2K.  Z Sure Mark, I am well aware of that page and what it says. I was asking for more details on[ the UK only specific stuff that Steve posted about. It turns out this only relates to which P versions are supported under prior version support rather than "normal support".   Regardse  ---6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk@  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofa MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2000 14:20:28 GMTp2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)J Subject: Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire)6 Message-ID: <8hj1bc$dt2$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  a In article <8hi52f$qbf@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:0J :...Actually, for many programs its already very simple. (Depending on theI :complexity of the Makefile and how well the code is written.)  The C RTLn9 :is much better than it used to be.  However the problems D :that keep biting me are relatively few, but also relatively hard to	 :correct:i :u2 :  1.  select() works differently -> major rewrite     To be fixed (COE and CRTL).-  * :  2.  fork() works differently -> rewrite  '   To be fixed (COE and OpenVMS kernel).c  A :  3.  IO techniques may implicitly depend on file caching and/or8C :      run like slugs on OpenVMS. -> much debugging to find problem,J :      areas, possibility that no amount of tweaking will make performanceC :      acceptably fast.  (Especially with programs that do a ton of $ :      manipulation of small files.)  A   To be fixed for read.  (XFC)   Full write caching within XFC is &   presently well along in development.  F :  4. "records" are >64k, which makes RMS very unhappy. -> ifdef's allE :     over the place and dig, dig, dig for the sections of code whichaD :     trigger these problems.  They can be very hard to find, buriedH :     in sections of code which don't execute until you're demonstrating" :     the program to somebody :-(.  C   Donno, haven't looked at this particular aspect -- obviously thisoE   particular behaviour is tied in with the need for ir use of stream iC   I/O, and not particularly related to RMS record access.  (In this @   case, you really don't want RMS particularly involved at all.)  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 10:49:39 -0400g" From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org>J Subject: Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire): Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000606104837.01cd6da0@24.8.96.48>  * At 03:01 PM 6/6/00 +0000, Rob Young wrote:J >         Linux is great and Linux is fast, yada yada.   But Linux doesn'tH >         have 4 or 5 nodes in a shared disk cluster.  Shared disk?  Who >         needs shared disk....c  I That's generally what NFS is used for. Not great (I could rant about NFS 0K for quite a while) compared to VMS' shared-disk stuff, but it does get the  < job done, and when it's all you're used to it's not too bad.   					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"-------------------s2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and evenn;                                       teddy bears get drunk    ------------------------------  " Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 17:09:10 GMT* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)J Subject: Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire)+ Message-ID: <eSGjkp5Q1WKo@eisner.decus.org>   _ In article <4.3.2.7.0.20000606104837.01cd6da0@24.8.96.48>, Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> writes:	, > At 03:01 PM 6/6/00 +0000, Rob Young wrote:K >>         Linux is great and Linux is fast, yada yada.   But Linux doesn'teI >>         have 4 or 5 nodes in a shared disk cluster.  Shared disk?  Whol  >>         needs shared disk.... > K > That's generally what NFS is used for. Not great (I could rant about NFS lM > for quite a while) compared to VMS' shared-disk stuff, but it does get the 9> > job done, and when it's all you're used to it's not too bad. >   : 	Ummm... no.  Won't handle an active database well at all.: 	Why else have 4 or 5 nodes share storage via controllers?   				RobO   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2000 15:42:11 GMT.2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)J Subject: Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire), Message-ID: <8hj64j$bbf@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  k In article <8hj1bc$dt2$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:n >.G >:  4. "records" are >64k, which makes RMS very unhappy. -> ifdef's all F >:     over the place and dig, dig, dig for the sections of code whichE >:     trigger these problems.  They can be very hard to find, buried I >:     in sections of code which don't execute until you're demonstrating # >:     the program to somebody :-(.E > D >  Donno, haven't looked at this particular aspect -- obviously thisF >  particular behaviour is tied in with the need for ir use of stream D >  I/O, and not particularly related to RMS record access.  (In thisA >  case, you really don't want RMS particularly involved at all.)/  D Right, but there's no way to avoid it.  As somebody else pointed outE before (sorry, don't recall who, but I agree) a true Stream file typen@ without the requirement for an LF every 64k would eliminate mostK of these problems.  Plus you'd have to be able to send that through a pipe.dK Right now even if you send streamlf in a pipe it comes out the other end ass VFC. 7   Example:   $ streamlf foobari $ append sys$Input foobarv this is some text to play  with2 $ pipe anal/rms foobar.. | search sys$Input format          Record Format: stream-LF$ $ echo :== copy sys$input sys$output $ pipe echo <foobar >goobar?2 $ pipe anal/rms goobar.. | search sys$Input format' %SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matched  $ dir goobar.*  Directory USRDISK:[USERS.MATHOG]   GOOBAR.LIS;15 $  pipe anal/rms goobar.lis | search sys$Input formatf2         Record Format: variable-with-fixed-control $ type goobar.lis  this is some text to play- with  I Funny that the name changed to ".lis".  I don't remember COPY doing that.    $ del goobar.*.* $ copy foobar.. goobar $ dir goobar  Directory USRDISK:[USERS.MATHOG]  	 GOOBAR.;3   I Nope, it doesn't.  So not only does PIPE change the type of the file, but=2 if it has no extension, it gets ".lis" tacked on.    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edui? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech h   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2000 14:15:50 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)Q Subject: Re: OpenVMS, SMTP, and email spam (was Re: I'm Trying to Model Somethingu6 Message-ID: <8hj12m$dt2$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  R In article <393C4482.1C709060@chem.wisc.edu>, simpler <brad@chem.wisc.edu> writes:E :Let's say there are M open mail relay systems and N active spammers.r :  :M >> NG :nH :Do you agree with me that, until M is on the order of N,  reducing M by8 :blocking open relay will have no effect on spam volume?  H   Personally, I find any calculation where M > 0 and/or N > 0 troubling,I   and any reductions in M and/or N to be valuable.  And from what I have tG   observed, the only central P (predictor) to S (spam) volume is the B oC   (network bandwidth) that is available to N and the B of L (legal oG   recourse) available to M and to those R (route-related organizations)mJ   "between" N and M or otherwise adversely affected by N.  Other entities G   involved in this also include the T (target) and O (source) of the S eK   (spam), and the inclincation of T to attempt L or F (financial) recourse oI   over the S with O (eg: simply not purchasing from O in response to S). o   QED, eh?  :-)  a  F :I've tried to say that in news.admin.net-abuse.email, but they aren't
 :buying it.  e  F   Um, so?  (Did you come over to comp.os.vms for a second opinion? :-)   :Am I missing something?  G   Discussions of spamming are not particularly relevent to comp.os.vms,yH   save for referencs to specific features or techniques or products thatF   are designed to discourage or defeat spam as related to OpenVMS.  (IH   would ask that any reports of potential security problems be reported F   directly to Compaq, and that they not be posted here -- most readersG   here are honest, but there are a few nefarious folks around that can eK   and will use information gleaned here or elsewhere for illicit purposes.)   J   If you want to shut off SMTP relay with TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS, youJ   will want V5.0 or later, or a firewall, or both.  The upcoming V5.1 has G   a programmable relay filter, which is rather better than the existinge5   all-or-nothing relay available in V5.0 and V5.0A.  e  I   If you decide to go the route of using firewalls, I'd encourage you to gK   configure the local firewall to filter for both inbound and for outbound  K   spam, but that's a general firewall configuration comment and not really tL   specifically relevent to OpenVMS or any other particular operating system.H   (Outbound filtering on the off chance that a node behind your firewallK   is compromised.  Per US law, the owner of a computer can end up "holding nJ   the bag" if the node is compromised and then used for illicit purposes.)   	--e  D   Yes, there was seemingly too much C (caffeine) in the J (java) I D&   (drank) this AM (anti-meridian). :-)  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 11:16:15 -0400c- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>aQ Subject: Re: OpenVMS, SMTP, and email spam (was Re: I'm Trying to Model Somethingm, Message-ID: <393D15B5.208E22E5@videotron.ca>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:iJ >   Personally, I find any calculation where M > 0 and/or N > 0 troubling,J >   and any reductions in M and/or N to be valuable.  And from what I haveH >   observed, the only central P (predictor) to S (spam) volume is the BD >   (network bandwidth) that is available to N and the B of L (legalI >   recourse) available to M and to those R (route-related organizations)eK >   "between" N and M or otherwise adversely affected by N.  Other entitiestH >   involved in this also include the T (target) and O (source) of the SL >   (spam), and the inclincation of T to attempt L or F (financial) recourseJ >   over the S with O (eg: simply not purchasing from O in response to S). >   QED, eh?  :-)c  2 Sounds like Humphrey in "Yes, Prime Minister". :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 08:38:36 -0700 + From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <treahy@mmaz.com>gP Subject: Re: OpenVMS, SMTP, and email spam (was Re: I'm Trying to ModelSomething( Message-ID: <393D1AFC.ECD402E1@mmaz.com>  O This is proof positive that engineers do have a sense of humor!  Great job Hoffo :-)n   Barryp     > Hoff Hoffman wrote:nL > >   Personally, I find any calculation where M > 0 and/or N > 0 troubling,L > >   and any reductions in M and/or N to be valuable.  And from what I haveJ > >   observed, the only central P (predictor) to S (spam) volume is the BF > >   (network bandwidth) that is available to N and the B of L (legalK > >   recourse) available to M and to those R (route-related organizations)sM > >   "between" N and M or otherwise adversely affected by N.  Other entities*J > >   involved in this also include the T (target) and O (source) of the SN > >   (spam), and the inclincation of T to attempt L or F (financial) recourseL > >   over the S with O (eg: simply not purchasing from O in response to S). > >   QED, eh?  :-)5   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 08:45:57 -0400V- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>W$ Subject: Re: OSU Web Server Problems, Message-ID: <393CF285.1696D417@videotron.ca>   "Clark L. Zahn" wrote:9 > We are running into problems with the webserver hangingAH > frequently and having to be restarted.  We are writing to a pipe named > NET_LINK from Fortran.  M What version of OSU do you have running ? What version of VMS ? You'd need togN provide a lot more information for anyone to know what is wrong. And you might@ wish to consider subscribing to the OSU web server mailing list.  K Have you visited: http://www.er6.eng.ohio-state.edu/WWW/doc/serverinfo.html-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 16:03:09 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>H$ Subject: Re: OSU Web Server Problems) Message-ID: <393D049D.9FD954CF@gtech.com>w   "Clark L. Zahn" wrote:N > Does anyone out there have recent experience with the OSU web server runningP > on VMS?  I'm working on a project where we are porting a legacy FMS app to useK > a web interface.  We are running into problems with the webserver hangingnH > frequently and having to be restarted.  We are writing to a pipe named > NET_LINK from Fortran.  A We are many with current OSU experience. After all it is probablyi) the most widely used HTTP-server on VMS !h  @ There are even a special mail-list VMS-WEB-DAEMON for discussing7 it (see http://www.levitte.org/~ava/vms_forum.htmlx forV details on).  ; I have personally used CGIs cripts written in FORTRAN. Eveno? though I preferred to use a DCL wrapper that ran CGI_SYMBOLS oro3 SET_DCL_ENV and DEFINE SYS$OUTPUT NET_LINK and then 5 let the FORTRAN program use LIB$GET_SYMBOL and normall? output (it is easier to test the programs as non-CGI then !!!).a   No problems.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 10:36:06 +0000o$ From: Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk= Subject: Re: performance drop of >35% from Oracle 7.1 to 8.05 / Message-ID: <002568F6.003A5420.00@quegw01.btyp>h  = Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plazai  2 And after 8 years you're STILL bitter about it...?   Steve Spires VMS System Manager BT/Yellow Pagess        6 "MyTwoBits" <nighr@hotmail.com> on 06/06/2000 01:51:52    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages) B From:      "MyTwoBits" <nighr@hotmail.com>, 6 June 2000, 1:51 a.m.  4 Re: performance drop of >35% from Oracle 7.1 to 8.05         [cut...]  ; My ribs hurt.  I lost my Vax administrator job 8 years ago.s   [cut...]   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 11:28:16 +0100>  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com= Subject: Re: performance drop of >35% from Oracle 7.1 to 8.05 > Message-ID: <802568F6.003999EE.00@qedilc01.qedi.quintiles.com>  + MyTwoBits (nighr at hotmail dot com) wrote:.  L >>>In the years since, I've learned Oracle and don't care what the operatingK system it's on.  Last winter I showed a mainframe programmer how to connect J to an NT Oracle installation from his OS/390 beast to do table backups viaK export and SQL*Net.  With the exception of power plants and hospitals where I I would be cautious about migrations, there is no reason why anyone would N stay on VMS a second longer than they had to.  Just to run Oracle?  Please.<<<  O But if you don't care about what platform it's on, why should you run away fromm VMS?0 - It's reliable (which helps keep Oracle happy);L - It's secure (which means that other people shouldn't be able to get in too easily to look at your data); L - You can do software shadowing of disks (which means that you can have yourJ databases copied across different cabinets, let alone spread over multiple% spindles, to improve fault tolerance) L - VMS will only report the data as being written to disk when those data areM written to disk (unless you have writeback caches enabled or there's a bug in0M Oracle not checking a return status correctly) which means that your data areS0 going to be on the spindles when VMS says it is;M - VMS is still being developed actively by Compaq and Compaq are looking at a K minimum of 15 years committment to it with the DII-COE work that's going onp5 (which means it isn't going to go away anytime soon);    Steve.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 10:33:27 -0400a" From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org>= Subject: Re: performance drop of >35% from Oracle 7.1 to 8.05 : Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000606103226.01cdbbf0@24.8.96.48>  * At 08:57 PM 6/5/00 +0000, Dirk Munk wrote: >Dan Sugalski wrote:C > > Also try switching over to using TCP/IP instead of mailboxes insO > > LISTENER.ORA/TNSNAMES.ORA. I don't know if you'll see a win, but it's worth  > > an experiment. >nB >AFAIK TCP/IP also uses mailboxes for internal communication, so I> >suppose it would only add the overhead for the TCP/IP stack ?  I Got me there--I ran Oracle under Multinet, and I don't know that it used tL mailboxes under the hood. Like I said, give it a shot and see what happens. < Worst case is the performance isn't as good and you stop. :)   					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"-------------------p2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and evenh;                                       teddy bears get drunko   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 10:31:40 -0400o( From: Ron Maisch <maiscron@Hilltown.com>& Subject: Porting VAX Macro code to AXP? Message-ID: <01EABD5EE58AD211ADDE0000F8097AE667C0@hilltown.com>e  
 Hello all,A Just signed up with the list as I've been thrown into the joy of l8 Upgrading a VAX MACRO application to AXP.  In my readingA So far I have found that a translator (VEST) is not usable due tol@ Some of the coding implementations.  If anyone could help me outD Or point me to sources I'd greatly appreciate it.  Now onto the fun.  B Much of the code is similar to this, I know a common Compaq WizardG Response includes "find a new call that does the same thing ...", they  F May exist for this, but the errors are common among a lot of routines.  J Here is a sample of the code, with a few notes.  I can find mention of theI $setast system call, but not $setast_s.  This and the datincode error Are " the biggest problems at this time.  F If anyone spots additional problems feel free to throw comments in as ! I'll eventually hit them Im sure.-   Thanks for your time,c
 Ron Maisch5 Maiscron@hilltown.com <mailto:Maiscron@hilltown.com> // (Please copy me directly as I'm in digest mode)eG =======================================================================t         .transfer       my$get:         .mask   my$GET,^M<R2,R3,R4,R5,R6,R7,R8,R9,R10,R11>         jmp     smc$get+2p          	.subtitle       my$GETz 	.page  :         .entry  my$GET,^M<R2,R3,R4,R5,R6,R7,R8,R9,R10,R11>  	 Init_get:0>         $setast_s       enbflg=#0       ; disable AST delivery;         movl    r0,setast_r0            ; save status valueDC         movl    #6,pis_numargs          ; number of legal arguments0C         movl    #1,r0                   ; test for greater or equal          jsb     check_arg_count          cmpl    #1,r0e         beql    get_move_argsa5         movl    (ap)+,args_left         ;save for nowt         movl    (ap)+,get_chan         movl    (ap)+,get_keyt         movl    (ap)+,get_type         movl    (ap)+,get_lock         movl    (ap)+,get_stat         movw    #-9,@get_statoJ         jsb     return                  ; check AST state and exit routineG =======================================================================v	 Problems: 0 1) .transfer and .mask directives not supported.F    Fix - comment out the .transfer, .mask, and jmp lines, add a symbolB          vector when compiling as SYMBOL_VECTOR=(my$get=PROCEDURE)  , 2) $setast_s embflg=#0 - data in code stream   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2000 15:16:07 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)* Subject: Re: Porting VAX Macro code to AXP6 Message-ID: <8hj4jn$he8$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  j In article <01EABD5EE58AD211ADDE0000F8097AE667C0@hilltown.com>, Ron Maisch <maiscron@Hilltown.com> writes:B :Just signed up with the list as I've been thrown into the joy of * :Upgrading a VAX MACRO application to AXP.  1   The OpenVMS Alpha version would be of interest.s   :  In my readingB :So far I have found that a translator (VEST) is not usable due to& :Some of the coding implementations.    B   If you have the source code, there is very little reason to use    DECmigrate (VEST and TIE).     :If anyone could help me out4 :Or point me to sources I'd greatly appreciate it...  E   Use the Macro32 compiler for OpenVMS Alpha, and take a look at the 1D   available Macro32 porting documentation in the OpenVMS manual set.  C :Much of the code is similar to this, I know a common Compaq WizardgH :Response includes "find a new call that does the same thing ...", they G :May exist for this, but the errors are common among a lot of routines.s  F   I see no reason why this particular stuff was even coded in Macro32,F   based on the snippet of Macro32 code that was provided.  If you haveI   access to another language compiler, you'll probably find that porting eJ   this Macro32 code to another language makes it rather more maintainable.  K :Here is a sample of the code, with a few notes.  I can find mention of thepJ :$setast system call, but not $setast_s.  This and the datincode error Are# :the biggest problems at this time.O  C   $setast_s is simply a variant of $setast that uses stack storage,,F   and utilizes a macro from the starlet.mlb macro library.  $setast_s C   is available, as are $setast_g and $setast macros, and you could o:   also obviously directly call the sys$setast entry point.  G :If anyone spots additional problems feel free to throw comments in as e" :I'll eventually hit them Im sure.  E   Please start with the existing porting manual.  It answers many of a   these questions.  0 :(Please copy me directly as I'm in digest mode)     Ask here, get an answer here.    :        .transfer       my$get ; :        .mask   my$GET,^M<R2,R3,R4,R5,R6,R7,R8,R9,R10,R11>e :        jmp     smc$get+2  A   This definitely smells like a shareable image.  Please see the eD   shareable image cookbook referenced by the OpenVMS FAQ for detailsE   on shareable images and on (minor) differences between OpenVMS VAX O!   and OpenVMS Alpha in this area..   :        :	.subtitle       my$GET :	.pageF :a; :        .entry  my$GET,^M<R2,R3,R4,R5,R6,R7,R8,R9,R10,R11>o  ?   Replace with the specified entry directive.  eg: .CALL_ENTRY.   
 :Init_get:? :        $setast_s       enbflg=#0       ; disable AST delivery   ?   Be very careful with this technique, as you can get into somee@   serious trouble if you do not handle ASTs and AST enabling and   disabling correctly.  K :        jsb     return                  ; check AST state and exit routine.  @   I'd tend to use a real return, rather than getting creative onA   the call stack -- call stack stuff tends not to port that well.:  H :=======================================================================
 :Problems:1 :1) .transfer and .mask directives not supported.eG :   Fix - comment out the .transfer, .mask, and jmp lines, add a symbolcC :         vector when compiling as SYMBOL_VECTOR=(my$get=PROCEDURE)i  A   Ayup.  See the porting manual and the shareable image cookbook.m  - :2) $setast_s embflg=#0 - data in code streamh  3   I'd place the flag in a data psect and try again.k  D   The OpenVMS FAQ is available via various URL links and at various @   sites, including via a link located at www.openvms.compaq.com.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 11:35:54 -0400M* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>* Subject: Re: Porting VAX Macro code to AXP- Message-ID: <393D1A5A.B88F8826@tsoft-inc.com>i   Ron Maisch wrote:h >  > Hello all,B > Just signed up with the list as I've been thrown into the joy of: > Upgrading a VAX MACRO application to AXP.  In my readingC > So far I have found that a translator (VEST) is not usable due to B > Some of the coding implementations.  If anyone could help me outF > Or point me to sources I'd greatly appreciate it.  Now onto the fun. > D > Much of the code is similar to this, I know a common Compaq WizardH > Response includes "find a new call that does the same thing ...", theyH > May exist for this, but the errors are common among a lot of routines. > L > Here is a sample of the code, with a few notes.  I can find mention of theK > $setast system call, but not $setast_s.  This and the datincode error Are $ > the biggest problems at this time. > G > If anyone spots additional problems feel free to throw comments in as # > I'll eventually hit them Im sure.e >  > Thanks for your time,. > Ron Maisch6 > Maiscron@hilltown.com <mailto:Maiscron@hilltown.com>1 > (Please copy me directly as I'm in digest mode)lI > =======================================================================   >         .transfer       my$get< >         .mask   my$GET,^M<R2,R3,R4,R5,R6,R7,R8,R9,R10,R11> >         jmp     smc$get+2f >   >         .subtitle       my$GET >         .pageh > < >         .entry  my$GET,^M<R2,R3,R4,R5,R6,R7,R8,R9,R10,R11> >  > Init_get:a@ >         $setast_s       enbflg=#0       ; disable AST delivery= >         movl    r0,setast_r0            ; save status valuesE >         movl    #6,pis_numargs          ; number of legal argumentsiE >         movl    #1,r0                   ; test for greater or equalu! >         jsb     check_arg_counte >         cmpl    #1,r0u >         beql    get_move_argse ------------------------7 >         movl    (ap)+,args_left         ;save for now   >         movl    (ap)+,get_chan >         movl    (ap)+,get_keye  >         movl    (ap)+,get_type  >         movl    (ap)+,get_lock  >         movl    (ap)+,get_stat ------------------------  K Nope!  MACRO-32 is compiled on Alpha.  You don't have access (in the mannerMO you're using) to the AP.  Doing the increment as you read the argument list was(O one of two problems I had, and the larger.  Assuming longword arguments, changec it to:   ------------------------6 >         movl    (ap),args_left         ;save for now  >         movl    4(ap),get_chan >         movl    8(ap),get_keyn! >         movl    12(ap),get_typeh! >         movl    16(ap),get_locks! >         movl    20(ap),get_statb -----------------------l  N The above is just the idea, you may need indirect addressing.  The key is that5 '(AP)+' won't work in the compiled Alpha environment.i  O I believe that Brian may have some tools to allow a different solution for this  problem.  (VAXMAN@TEMSIS.COM)e   Dave   >         movw    #-9,@get_statoL >         jsb     return                  ; check AST state and exit routineI > =======================================================================r > Problems:r2 > 1) .transfer and .mask directives not supported.H >    Fix - comment out the .transfer, .mask, and jmp lines, add a symbolD >          vector when compiling as SYMBOL_VECTOR=(my$get=PROCEDURE) > . > 2) $setast_s embflg=#0 - data in code stream   -- m4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 12:35:32 -04005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>mB Subject: Re: Prior version support was (Re: OpenVMS commentaries )+ Message-ID: <8hj982$nik$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>M  K The current version is V7.2-1, the previous version is V7.2, the one beforer that was V7.1-2.  F The two "mainstream" versions of OpenVMS (at least on Alpha) today areL V7.1-2 and V7.2-1.  The first thing I ask anyone with a problem on somethingH other than these two versions, is to upgrade to one of them.  There wereC enough important fixes made that I would not want to try and extend-I "standard" support back to any of the V7.1-1H* releases.  V7.1-2 has beenM out a *long* time now.  L When I look to write new support for devices (say a new graphics adapter), I) develop for the V7.1-2 baselevel forward.       B d.webb@mdx.ac.uk wrote in message <8h8k81$qa1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>...? >In article <802568F2.0041F477.00@qedilc01.qedi.quintiles.com>,_$ >  steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote: >> >>     ...u  G >My memory may well be faulty but when Prior Version support first camen >out I thought it was :- >rH >We will support the current main version and the preceding main versionE >but you will have to pay for this thing called Prior version supporto >for earlier versions. >-F >Now it seems to be we will support the current version and get you toC >pay extra for support on all previous versions after a short graceR! >period for the previous version.- >    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 00:53:23 -0700 ? From: Mike Price <mike.priceNOmiSPAM@littlewoods.co.uk.invalid>n" Subject: Re: SImple graphs fro VMS9 Message-ID: <359197b0.177743b9@usw-ex0104-031.remarq.com>.  5 Thanks to you all - your replies are much appreciatedn  
 Mike Price  L * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *G The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!l   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 08:22:16 GMTl. From: Peter Moreton <petermoreton@my-deja.com>( Subject: Re: SNA & PSI support on DSV-11) Message-ID: <8hicbf$i3o$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   * In article <8hfqhk$bsa@usenet.pa.dec.com>,3   carlini@true.lkg.dec.com (Antonio Carlini) wrote:M9 > In article <8h87s2$gpl$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Peter Moretone! <petermoreton@my-deja.com> wrote:$F > >I'm currently specc'ing a VAX configuration for an application thatF > >runs both X.25 and SNA APPC LU6.2 protocols. Currently we run these out E > >of DEMSA microservers, but to make the new configuration easier tocG > >support, I'd like to run these synchronous protocols via DSV-11 dualsH > >port sync cards. However, I cannot find any documentation on protocolD > >support for the DSV, I have a vague recolection that they did not5 > >support SNA last time I used these (5 years ago!).r >TE > I expect that the SNA product set depends on DECnet-Plus to provide1 the2E > underlying WAN support and DSV-11 is certainly supported by DECnet-l Plus on  > OpenVMS VAX. >B > ><G > >Can anyone confirm, or point me to the SNA SPD, if it is on the web?% > >  >cE > Go to www.digital.com and hit the search button. Ask for "spd appc"s withoutbD > the quotes and you'll find a bunch of hits. The early ones are for Digitalu > Unix.: >1G > The APPC SPD ( http://www.digital.com/info/SP2688/SP2688PF.PDF is the  one I F > read first but there are others - some possibly later) really states that iteG > wants you to have LU6.2 support somewhere else (like in your exsiting  DEMSAIC > software or some SNA gateway software on your VAX). You should be  able to find> > the relevant SPDs just by hunting around as described above. >t	 > Antonioo >i2 > Antonio Carlini                            Mail: carlini@true.lkg.dec.com% > DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS Engineering 8 > COMPAQ                                     Reading, UK >a    G Thanks everyone, it's becoming a bit clearer now. I see that I need thelE SNA Gateway software to be able to use a sync card instead if a DEMSAy for SNA, otherwise it works.   -- Peter Moreton, Northamptonshire,c UK.p    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.b   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 06:56:23 GMTr% From: Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com>y3 Subject: Re: SYI$_HW_NAME buffer might be too shorta) Message-ID: <8hi7ai$e1e$1@nnrp1.deja.com>n  6 In article <8hh55r$9ht$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>,&   hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam wrote: >sB > In article <8hgp1o$bli$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Uwe Zessin <zessin@my- deja.com> writes:iH > :It looks like Python is a wonderful way to find out quirks in OpenVMSH > :or the underlying hardware. Here is another one which I haven't found0 > :out myself this time - it was reported to me. > :iF > :The documented buffer size is 31, but - as you can see - this might > :not be enough.i >mA > Looks like this might be a bug in the OpenVMS documentation for-= > $getsyi, the real length of the string is apparently set byaA > CSB$S_HWNAME, and that is currently 61.  (Looks like it is also F > ASCIC, which means the maximum useful length of the string is really- > 60, with one reserved for the count  byte.)0  C It might be that the string is _internally_ stored as an ASCIC, butoH neither SYS$GETSYI nor LIB$GETSYI return an ASCIC value for SYI$_HW_NAME9 The first character is a capital "C", not the byte count.r  B > I'll pass this along to the appropriate technical writer -- this/ > from a quick look at the $getsyi source code.  > D >   I don't know of particularly many system services that deal withD > dynamic string descriptors -- I'd suggest trying this with a null- > terminated C string.  C I don't know either. I thought it is obvious from my text that I am)D using LIB$GETSYI which _does_ work with a dynamic string descriptor.  @ > That said, it also looks like something in this Python? widgetC > is returning the wrong length for the string (41 vs 38), and thathB > would likely be a creature lurking in the Python? system console > firmware.-  E No. The interface routine takes the string (descriptor) as-is. I havehA written this one and many others and try to avoid 'being clever'.e  @ Apparently they are currently not available on Deja.com, but you1 might remember discussions I have initiated like: & 'XABPRO limit - XAB$W_ACLSIZ <= 512?', 'XABITM - no 'cc$rms_xabitm'D or discussions about some system services which don't bother to fill5 in the returned length although a buffer is provided.o  G No, I claim that something inside OpenVMS (the person who reported thiswC to me runs OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1) or the XP1000 is wrong. LIB$GETSYInF should set the string length in the descriptor correctly. I don't know( if this works better with SYS$GETSYI[W].  A I have never seen $GETSYI returning an ASCIC or a zero-terminated & string for SYI$_HW_NAME - anyone else?  &                                    ---$ Oh, and while we're discussing this:7 there is some other surprise lurking in the background:nB the 'machine' field in struct 'utsname' in file 'UTSNAME.H' _is_ aD zero-terminated string - last time I checked it's length was limited to 31 characters!o   --
 Uwe Zessin    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 08:24:52 +0100=2 From: Ashley Shepherd <ashley.shepherd@virgin.net> Subject: Re: Tadpole Tuning88 Message-ID: <rn9pjskoso87vmsl8igs551683dm4qqas9@4ax.com>   Hi,   E I hate to say this, but you NEED more memory.  I had exactly the same1D problem with an Alpha 3000-400 just last week.  All I did was add in5 another 64Mb of memory, and it has worked fine since.    Hope this helpsD   Ashley    E On 2 Jun 2000 19:51:57 GMT, morris@iridium.mv.net (Skipper W. Morris)  wrote:  ? >I'm still trying to get my Tadpole (Alphabook) laptop running.c >rE >I hacked the Phase V install so it installs and runs, UCX even runs. N >The system even occasionally will make it all the way thru the boot sequence. > I >Usually if I set startup = opa0: in sysboot I can bring the whole system F >up a piece at a time.  But if I just try and boot normally the systemF >just stops part way up.  Any processes logged in just appear to hang,% >and the system console appears hung.= >=F >It really isn't hung.  I can still ping the system over the net.  AndI >DECnet hello messages are also going out.  It's just that user processes, >aren't getting any resources. > M >The poor little system only has 32 meg of memory.  When it is running almostbI >half of the processes are swapped out.  I've run autogen about 5-6 timesuB >trying to get it so it will try and work in a reasonable fashion. >)H >Only unusual thing I noticed in monitor that the page fault rate ranged >from 70 to 200. >.I >Any suggestions as to what I should look at to improve the situation? (I 4 >know, I know... but I *need* Phase V and TCP/IP...) >i >thankss
 >/Skip Morrist  6 >***************************************************** >Ashley Shepherd p >Consultancy Servicesl% >email to  ashley.shepherd@virgin.net 6 >*****************************************************   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 12:51:02 -04005 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>g Subject: Re: Tadpole Tuning + Message-ID: <8hja56$o1k$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>r  K As others have probably mentioned by now.  32MB is not enough memory to runaK both Phase 5 DECnet and DECwindows.  You need 64mb of memory.  You can backO' it down to phase 4, and it should work.s  K You can also play with SYSGEN parameters by hand to try and get enough freew: physical memory to work - reduce WSMAX, turn off VCC, etc.  K Most systems won't actually boot with P5 & Motif with 32mb - the fluid pageh@ count check will start failing for things like system page tableF expansion -- and quick and unpredictable system death tends to follow.  F _Fred (who has a AlphaBook, but must admit that he hasn't used it in a	 while...)a  B Skipper W. Morris wrote in message <8h938t$aek$1@pyrite.mv.net>...? >I'm still trying to get my Tadpole (Alphabook) laptop running.e >tE >I hacked the Phase V install so it installs and runs, UCX even runs.eD >The system even occasionally will make it all the way thru the boot	 sequence.a >sI >Usually if I set startup = opa0: in sysboot I can bring the whole systemrF >up a piece at a time.  But if I just try and boot normally the systemF >just stops part way up.  Any processes logged in just appear to hang,% >and the system console appears hung.s >eF >It really isn't hung.  I can still ping the system over the net.  AndI >DECnet hello messages are also going out.  It's just that user processesh >aren't getting any resources. >dF >The poor little system only has 32 meg of memory.  When it is running almostI >half of the processes are swapped out.  I've run autogen about 5-6 timesRB >trying to get it so it will try and work in a reasonable fashion. > H >Only unusual thing I noticed in monitor that the page fault rate ranged >from 70 to 200. >rI >Any suggestions as to what I should look at to improve the situation? (IV4 >know, I know... but I *need* Phase V and TCP/IP...) >s >thanks 
 >/Skip Morrisp   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 09:11:01 +0100 * From: Ian Dean <Ian.d.Dean@baesystems.com> Subject: UCX Bind database. Message-ID: <393CB215.1FA1D69F@baesystems.com>   Hi,eH     I'm a newbie to this news group, and hope I've found the right one!!  E I wish to use UCX to add a host to the BIND database, and I am hopingd( there is someone out there who can help.  D We are running OpenVMS v7.1, on an Alpha platform and using UCX 4.1.  ; I have added a host to the LOCAL database, using set host :h  	 Show host-     LOCAL database   Host address        Host name=   123.456.12.3        FRED 123.456.12.4        JOE=       BIND databaseo    Server:    123.456.12.1    SPOCK   Host address        Host name   & 123.456.12.3        FRED.STAR.TREK.COM  . What I want to do is add JOE in a similar way.   Any help would be appreciated.   TIA,     Ian    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 11:57:26 +0200 5 From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@whitehouse.nl>g Subject: Re: UCX Bind database- Message-ID: <393CCB06.87FABDC4@whitehouse.nl>U   Ian Dean wrote:i   >     BIND databaseg > " > Server:    123.456.12.1    SPOCK  . Hmm, doesn't seem like a valid IP address :-).  0 > What I want to do is add JOE in a similar way.  F In host SPOCK you will have to add this to the bind database. If SPOCK' is this UCX system check the following:   E - from the output of 'ucx sho config bind' note the filenames for thej8 star.trek.com domain and for the reverse address domain.; - then edit these files (usually in sys$specific:[ucx$bind]l1 - restart the nameserver with 'ucx set name/init'    Hope this helps,   Oswald   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 07:33:36 -0400 2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com> Subject: UCX Bind database7 Message-ID: <200006060733_MC2-A7B5-714F@compuserve.com>c  E         You are going to have to either edit the database on SPOCK oriJ convert the hosts file (again) which will wipe out any customization that=  % anyone has done to the BIND database.   G         If you need to ask, you probably shouldn't be doing it.  If youeJ must do it anyway, get a copy of "DNS and BIND" by Paul Albitz and Cricke= tfI Liu, published by O'Reilly and Associates.  Get the UCX documentation.  =o  J Read both.  Then approach your BIND database with fear and trembling.  UC= XoJ 4.1 is probably better than 3.x which is the last version on which I set = upH and maintained a BIND server, but UCX is not quite like anything else onJ earth and it's practically certain that some things won't work the way yo= u , expect them to and some may not work at all!  H         Remember that there are *TWO* (at least) database files, one forJ looking up the IP address given the name, and the other for looking up th= e J name given the IP address.  You must edit them both!  And do it correctly= . =T    And then fix whatever you broke.    Message text written by Ian Dean >Hi,H     I'm a newbie to this news group, and hope I've found the right one!!  E I wish to use UCX to add a host to the BIND database, and I am hoping ( there is someone out there who can help.  D We are running OpenVMS v7.1, on an Alpha platform and using UCX 4.1.  ; I have added a host to the LOCAL database, using set host :e  	 Show hoste     LOCAL database   Host address        Host namea   123.456.12.3        FRED 123.456.12.4        JOE        BIND database     Server:    123.456.12.1    SPOCK   Host address        Host name   & 123.456.12.3        FRED.STAR.TREK.COM  . What I want to do is add JOE in a similar way.   Any help would be appreciated.   TIA,     Ian    <s   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 08:52:45 GMTa0 From: carlini@true.lkg.dec.com (Antonio Carlini)% Subject: Re: vaxstation LED meanings?r* Message-ID: <8hidh3$iel@usenet.pa.dec.com>  d In article <393C167B.D76D5BFC@itac11-sun.sprint.ca>, Dan Gahlinger <dan@itac11-sun.sprint.ca> wrote:  I >Is there a place on the web that outlines the meanings of the LED lightso? >on the back of the Vaxstation (specifcally I'm looking for the- >vaxstation 3100, model 76).  I You could try www.deja.com to see if it has cropped up in comp.os.vms or +  comp.sys.dec[.micro] before now.  I >My system does the video test, and KB test, then stops dead. LEDs on aren >7,3,2  F >I thought this meant a bad scsi controller, but I'm not totally sure.H >and on the model 76, the scsi controller is built-in to the motherboard  G IIRC there are actually two SCSI chips on the motherboard - the single =K internal cable carries SCSI-A around inside the box and SCSI-B goes to the p external connector.m  M The code you have is 1000.1100; according to the maintenance guide 1000.xxxx nJ means test xxxx failed. In your case this is test C which means a dead or  dying serial controller. -  M If you are talking to the box via a serial line (i.e. S3 is up) then you may ,I well have a major problem here depending on exactly  how dead the serial vC controller is (it controls mouse, KB and the serial lines I think).4  M If you have a monitor attached and are trying to use the box as a VAXstation mO then you may be OK right up to the point that you try to log in :-) Given that pM you say it stops dead, is it possible that you are hooked up as a VAXstation mM (i.e. you see the tests starting up on the video monitor) but you just don't r3 have a *working* keyboard and/or a mouse hooked up?   I ( I once got as far as swapping a PSU *and* mainboard on a KA43 before I  O finally found the culprit - somehow the mouse had (presumably) shorted the PSU gO and persuaded it to crowbar! Once I found a new mouse, everything worked fine. n6 Those mainboards acn be quite a pig to swap at times!)  
 >it seems,H >although it has a daughter board "5419288" I believe is the part number >(scsi/FDI adapter). >(  L 54-19288 is the SCSI floppy disk interface - it allows an RX23 floppy to be  used on the machine.   Antoniog  I Antonio Carlini                            Mail: carlini@true.lkg.dec.com1# DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS Engineeringc6 COMPAQ                                     Reading, UK   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 12:56:33 GMTg From: Dan <dan@vrx.net>l% Subject: Re: vaxstation LED meanings?h' Message-ID: <393CF482.76DA7F74@vrx.net>a   Thanks antonio.t how about 7,2,1 ?e* I wish someone would post the whole thing.- I have a working keyboard and mouse attached. : the LOCK and COMPOSE LEDs on my KB light up after a while.H but then the system stops. looks like a "white"ish screen at that point. and it's stopped dead.L I pulled the scsi/fdi adapter out, unplugged all the drives and scsi cables,B even removed half the ram (it was fully loaded) and still no dice. same thing.gg does video test patterns (I'm using it as a console not via seral network connection), the S3 switch isa2 down. but no display at all after the video tests.  d according to a web page I was at 3 and 2 are both "reserved digital tests", contact digital. but I'd5 appreciate if anyone can shed some light on this one.a  > Maybe save me from a $100US cost of a replacement motherboard.   Dan.   Antonio Carlini wrote:  f > In article <393C167B.D76D5BFC@itac11-sun.sprint.ca>, Dan Gahlinger <dan@itac11-sun.sprint.ca> wrote: >cK > >Is there a place on the web that outlines the meanings of the LED lights7A > >on the back of the Vaxstation (specifcally I'm looking for the> > >vaxstation 3100, model 76). >gJ > You could try www.deja.com to see if it has cropped up in comp.os.vms or" > comp.sys.dec[.micro] before now. >eK > >My system does the video test, and KB test, then stops dead. LEDs on arec > >7,3,2 > H > >I thought this meant a bad scsi controller, but I'm not totally sure.J > >and on the model 76, the scsi controller is built-in to the motherboard >eH > IIRC there are actually two SCSI chips on the motherboard - the singleL > internal cable carries SCSI-A around inside the box and SCSI-B goes to the > external connector.r >dN > The code you have is 1000.1100; according to the maintenance guide 1000.xxxxK > means test xxxx failed. In your case this is test C which means a dead orh > dying serial controller. >%N > If you are talking to the box via a serial line (i.e. S3 is up) then you mayJ > well have a major problem here depending on exactly  how dead the serialE > controller is (it controls mouse, KB and the serial lines I think)./ >oN > If you have a monitor attached and are trying to use the box as a VAXstationP > then you may be OK right up to the point that you try to log in :-) Given thatN > you say it stops dead, is it possible that you are hooked up as a VAXstationN > (i.e. you see the tests starting up on the video monitor) but you just don't5 > have a *working* keyboard and/or a mouse hooked up?i >aJ > ( I once got as far as swapping a PSU *and* mainboard on a KA43 before IP > finally found the culprit - somehow the mouse had (presumably) shorted the PSUP > and persuaded it to crowbar! Once I found a new mouse, everything worked fine.8 > Those mainboards acn be quite a pig to swap at times!) >e > >it seems,J > >although it has a daughter board "5419288" I believe is the part number > >(scsi/FDI adapter). > >p >wM > 54-19288 is the SCSI floppy disk interface - it allows an RX23 floppy to be0 > used on the machine. >r	 > Antonios ><K > Antonio Carlini                            Mail: carlini@true.lkg.dec.come% > DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS Engineeringn8 > COMPAQ                                     Reading, UK   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 10:16:17 -0500r* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>% Subject: Re: vaxstation LED meanings?s- Message-ID: <0033000023575957000002L072*@MHS>   H =0AIs there a place on the web that outlines the meanings of the LED li= ghts> on the back of the Vaxstation (specifcally I'm looking for the vaxstation 3100, model 76). H My system does the video test, and KB test, then stops dead. LEDs on ar= ea 7,3,2 E I thought this meant a bad scsi controller, but I'm not totally sure.gH and on the model 76, the scsi controller is built-in to the motherboard=  	 it seems,sH although it has a daughter board "5419288" I believe is the part number=   (scsi/FDI adapter).e  A this is my "prize" machine, so if anyone has any suggestions, I'dy greatly appreciate it.   Dan.   --" -There are always possibilities...  5      Here's the starting place for the owner's guide:t  :      http://www.whiteice.com/~williamwebb/intro/DOC-i.html  #      Diagnostic lights are shown at   =      http://www.whiteice.com/~williamwebb/Chap7/DOC-7-25.htmln  8      But it doesn't give you a table for what they mean.  F      Perhaps some kind soul inside Compaq could peruse the appropriateE      repair manual and publish the codes (I'll add them to that page,t      I promise!)        WWWebb=   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 15:35:16 GMTo0 From: carlini@true.lkg.dec.com (Antonio Carlini)% Subject: Re: vaxstation LED meanings?i* Message-ID: <8hj53t$52s@usenet.pa.dec.com>  @ In article <393CF482.76DA7F74@vrx.net>, Dan <dan@vrx.net> wrote: >how about 7,2,1 ?+ >I wish someone would post the whole thing.v  6 The maintenance guide gives a whole bunch of stuff but         1000.xxxxa means "TEST xxxx failed" so          1000.0110oJ means test 6 failed which means one (or both?) of your SCSI busses has an - error - are both of them properly terminated?s   xxxx codes are:s         1111 - MONOm         1110 - CLK         1101 - NVR         1100 - DZh         1011 - MEM         1001 - FP          1000 - ITi"         0111, 0110 - SCSI (A or B)         0101 - SYS         0100 - GFX         0001 - EthernetrK (0011 & 0010 seem to either never be used or are reserved for option cards)   M >I pulled the scsi/fdi adapter out, unplugged all the drives and scsi cables, C >even removed half the ram (it was fully loaded) and still no dice.n >same thing.  , No SCSI terminator will give you this error. Put the RAM back - it looks OK!r  J >does video test patterns (I'm using it as a console not via seral network > connection), the S3 switch isH3 >down. but no display at all after the video tests.d  O You should begin to see the KA43 banner - but the tests do take a *long* time; oN multiple minutes. It is very easy to decide that anything taking this long to O say hello is broken. It isn't broken. Try leaving it for ten minutes (with the iH monitor brightness and contrast set so that the monitor will definitely  display something :-) )i  L >according to a web page I was at 3 and 2 are both "reserved digital tests", > contact digital. but I'd   You have a support contract?  ? >Maybe save me from a $100US cost of a replacement motherboard.o   Cheaper on ebay no?y     2  drives but you cannot leave out
 external).   Antonio   I Antonio Carlini                            Mail: carlini@true.lkg.dec.comn# DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS Engineeringt6 COMPAQ                                     Reading, UK   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 11:45:00 -0400U. From: Dan Gahlinger <dan@itac11-sun.sprint.ca>% Subject: Re: vaxstation LED meanings?t4 Message-ID: <393D1C7C.D4F7DB5A@itac11-sun.sprint.ca>   Antonio Carlini wrote:  K > means test 6 failed which means one (or both?) of your SCSI busses has anr/ > error - are both of them properly terminated?    only 1 bus.   . > No SCSI terminator will give you this error.! > Put the RAM back - it looks OK!r  K I tried it with the drives disconnected but with a terminator block plugged3  in.same problem. but I'll retest  P > You should begin to see the KA43 banner - but the tests do take a *long* time;O > multiple minutes. It is very easy to decide that anything taking this long to P > say hello is broken. It isn't broken. Try leaving it for ten minutes (with theI > monitor brightness and contrast set so that the monitor will definitelyo > display something :-) )t  6 is six hours long enough? no display. no banner. nada.   > You have a support contract?  L yes, with that small caribean island I purchased last week... <I'm joking of course!>  A > >Maybe save me from a $100US cost of a replacement motherboard.* >* > Cheaper on ebay no?-  O definitely not, well, unless you are careful, there is scum on there that trieseO to sell stuff for like $500-$600 US for dead systems. buyer beware was never so$ true.z  N I deal with a reputable company in California, never had a problem, great guy,O great references, very good prices, and really knows his stuff. I give him a 11n on a scale of 1-10. :)   Dan.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 10:58:32 GMTr% From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com>  Subject: Re: VEST / DECmigrate) Message-ID: <8hilgj$o4i$1@nnrp1.deja.com>o  6 In article <8hh219$8er$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>,&   hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam wrote:G >   DECmigrate (VEST) is not supported.  TIE (the run-time environment)d hasfE >   its problems, particularly around its incompatibility with recentd Fortran C >   environments.  TIE is known to fail with recent versions of the. Fortran. >   RTL installed.   Hoff,   = While I understand that VEST is not supported it is not clearn? from your answer whether TIE is supported. We have run into theoA problem with some vested components and had to go back to version F 7.1 of the FORTRAN run time library - which at the moment causes us noC problems - but this won't always remain the case. One of these appsyB is a commercial app (CA-MANMAN) which has a module called dataport> requiring TIE. CA's official answer is that they consider it a@ Compaq bug. I think part of DECForms still requires TIE as well.= Can we expect this incompatability to be fixed for *existing*c@ executables in a future version of the FORTRAN run time library?  > I certainly consider it a Compaq bug as well if a pre-existingG app breaks on upgrade of FORTRAN. I haven't submitted an SPR myself as,nD until now, I had assumed the problem was being worked on but now I'm	 not sure.h   Could you clarify please?  --
 Alan Greig    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 11:11:14 GMTe% From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com>  Subject: Re: VEST / DECmigrate) Message-ID: <8him8b$oja$1@nnrp1.deja.com>0  F In article <3FQ_4.4559$2b4.318019@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,2   "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net> wrote:F > Some of them have broken on Alpha VMS 7.2 but as far as I know,  you cant   John,o  D Can't remember if you were in on the original thread on this several? months ago, but if not, note that it is the FORTRAN 7.2 runtimeg: library - not VMS 7.2 itself that breaks things. ReplacingA SYS$LIBRARY:DEC$FORRTL.EXE (or defining a logical to point at theh) old one) with the 7.1 version works fine.  --
 Alan Greig    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.I   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2000 14:26:58 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: VEST / DECmigrate6 Message-ID: <8hj1ni$dt2$3@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  Q In article <8hilgj$o4i$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> writes:2? :I certainly consider it a Compaq bug as well if a pre-existing H :app breaks on upgrade of FORTRAN. I haven't submitted an SPR myself as,E :until now, I had assumed the problem was being worked on but now I'm4
 :not sure. :K :Could you clarify please?  D   This is not really a clarification, but a request that you get the6   formal software support channel(s) involved in this.  E   This is a known incompatibility between the TIE Fortran RTL and thetC   Fortran RTL.  I do not know the status of the work nor any of thetH   plans nor schedules for this area, and would encourage direct contact J   with the Compaq Customer Support Center if you require this information.  G   The workaround for this has been discussed elsewhere, and avoids the -F   incompatibility that the TIE Fortran RTL has when it encounters the H   changes that were made to the data structures internal to the Fortran @   RTL circa OpenVMS V7.2 or circa new Fortran RTL installations.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 15:29:51 +0200o= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>i@ Subject: Re: VMS File Caching Futures (Was: Re: Andrew whatever)) Message-ID: <393CFCCE.EA215842@gtech.com>    David A Froble wrote:a > Wayne Sewell wrote:eR > > Boy, I hear that.  I use C now, but I would never have learned it if I had notM > > been forced to by customers.  I always wrote in Pascal if given a choice.eM > > Admittedly, the original standard Pascal was pretty much useless, but VAXyS > > Pascal (which has been renamed to DEC Pascal and then Compaq Pascal for obviousrR > > reasons, i.e. Alpha) was *always* an industrial strength compiler.  Back in myP > > E-Systems days, we wrote millions of lines of production code in it.  PeopleR > > complain about the pickiness of Pascal and the rigorous syntax, but if you canN > > get a program to compile, it will probably run.  It catches many errors atD > > compile-time that  manifest themselves at run-time when using C. > P > Exactly!  This is what makes C inappropriate for applications development.  ItM > will let a coding mistake get by that most other compilers will catch.  YousR > quickly see the mistake, correct it, and get on with the job.  In C the error isK > allowed into the executable, it causes a problem and many hours are spentOR > finding and fixing a small typo, or it doesn't cause a problem at that time, andR > gets released into production, and can do great harm before it's known to exist. > P > The syntax checking in a compiler exists for one good reason.  A computer willQ > always be better at finding such errors than a programmer reading code.  Why doeB > we use computers if not to perform such tasks better and faster?  F C is one of the most widely used languages today. And it certainly has someB strong points, but it also got some weak points. It is not good at$ finding coding bugs at compile time.  # But we need to distinguish between:t  C 1)  the defects in the C language as defined in the ANSI C standardv  0 2)  the bad practices common among C programmers  B It is my experience that #2 is more important than #1 in practice.  ? * there is a tradition among C programmers for using very shorte@   names and it is generally considered good to write code in the   most compact style  F * the compiler switches are used to make it easier for the programmersC   to get a clean build instead of as a tool to improve code quality ?   (CC/STANDARD=ANSI/WARNING=ENABLE=ALL are a lot different fromi)   CC/STANDARD=VAXC/WARNING=DISABLE=ALL !)e  F * many programmers today have learned C as their first language, whichD   often result in very poor programs - programmers that have learnedA   Pascal or Ada usully write better C programs, because they haveu$   beed educated by a strict compiler   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 19:01:51 +0700c) From: Denis Shadrin <shadrin@novosoft.ru>iA Subject: What is analogies of UNIX "echo" command on the VAX/VMS? + Message-ID: <393CE82F.B1252848@novosoft.ru>b   Hi!   8 What is analogies of UNIX "echo" command on the VAX/VMS?  ! Please mailto:shadrin@novosoft.ruo   -- t With best regardsp
 Denis Shadrinu   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 14:17:37 +0200> From: "Jean-Francois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr>E Subject: Re: What is analogies of UNIX "echo" command on the VAX/VMS?a3 Message-ID: <8hiq1q$14o7$1@s2.feed.news.oleane.net>    ... write sysoutputo  7 sometimes, echo -n used in cunjunction with set name=<$ & is equivalent to inquire name "prompt"   Jean-Francois Marchals X9000 - LYON  6 "Denis Shadrin" <shadrin@novosoft.ru> wrote in message% news:393CE82F.B1252848@novosoft.ru...  > Hi!  >t: > What is analogies of UNIX "echo" command on the VAX/VMS? >I# > Please mailto:shadrin@novosoft.ru  >3 > -- > With best regards  > Denis Shadrini   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 08:59:32 -0400.+ From: Brendan Welch <brendan_welch@uml.edu>OE Subject: Re: What is analogies of UNIX "echo" command on the VAX/VMS?-' Message-ID: <393CF5B4.E9361B04@uml.edu>1   Jean-Francois Marchal wrote:   > ... write sysoutputt >o9 > sometimes, echo -n used in cunjunction with set name=<$ ( > is equivalent to inquire name "prompt" >h > Jean-Francois Marchalh > X9000 - LYON >a8 > "Denis Shadrin" <shadrin@novosoft.ru> wrote in message' > news:393CE82F.B1252848@novosoft.ru...  > > Hi!t > >s< > > What is analogies of UNIX "echo" command on the VAX/VMS? > >s% > > Please mailto:shadrin@novosoft.rup > >u > > -- > > With best regards  > > Denis Shadrinr    Spelling error:   That should be   write   sys$output       --? Brendan Welch, system analyst, Univ. of Massachusetts - Lowell,i W1LPG    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 15:12:54 +0200h= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>bE Subject: Re: What is analogies of UNIX "echo" command on the VAX/VMS?n) Message-ID: <393CF8D6.AB1020FA@gtech.com>a   Denis Shadrin wrote:: > What is analogies of UNIX "echo" command on the VAX/VMS?   $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 20:21:19 +0700.) From: Denis Shadrin <shadrin@novosoft.ru>wE Subject: Re: What is analogies of UNIX "echo" command on the VAX/VMS? + Message-ID: <393CFACF.D29C9FC5@novosoft.ru>    Hi!t   Thank you! It works.   Arne Vajhj wrote: >  > Denis Shadrin wrote:< > > What is analogies of UNIX "echo" command on the VAX/VMS? >  > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT >  > Arne   --   With best regards 
 Denis Shadrinr   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Jun 2000 17:09:00 GMTt- From: "Phil Tregoning" <ptregoni@esoc.esa.de> A Subject: Re: What is the simplest way to network two VMS systems?e= Message-ID: <01bfcfd8$60718080$4b53b083@ptregoni.esoc.esa.de>   8 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in article# <393B366F.9F097B69@videotron.ca>...r > Dan wrote: > > H > > I installed DEC Net Plus instead of phase 4, compaq likes to suggest this.x! > > is this actually a good idea?  > J > DECNET-PLUS is overly complex and a pain to manage. Avoid it unless your > network requires it. >   K Lots of people seem to say this in comp.os.vms. I've been using DECnet/plusc; for a few years now, and quite like it. Am I just perverse?    Phil   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 10:32:10 +0200y. From: Tim Oakley <t.oakley@maury-imprimeur.fr>" Subject: Re: X Font Server for VMS2 Message-ID: <393CB70A.61B3E657@maury-imprimeur.fr>  > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html>2 Sorry to 'waste' your time, thanks for your reply. <p>Hoff Hoffman wrote:K <blockquote TYPE=CITE>In article &lt;3934D174.6413E860@maury-imprimeur.fr>,s3 Tim Oakley &lt;t.oakley@maury-imprimeur.fr> writes:i- <p>&nbsp; Please turn off HTML.&nbsp; Thanks. < <p>:I want to run a font server under VMS 7.1-2 and UCX 4.2.F <br>:Is a font server included with UCX (i can't find it), or is there a = <br>:known free/share ware implementation of 'xfs' for VMS. ?tH <p>&nbsp; The OpenVMS Wizard was asked the same question recently -- the fontJ <br>&nbsp; server startup mechanism is described in the DECwindows private serverF <br>&nbsp; setup template procedure.&nbsp; Also, please move to TCP/IP V5.0A.&nbsp; I will H <br>&nbsp; ask that the answer queued over in the Ask The Wizard area be	 canceled.PV <p>&nbsp;--------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------S <br>&nbsp;&nbsp; Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman&nbsp;&nbsp; OpenVMS Engineering&nbsp;&nbsp;u' hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com</blockquote>s   <p>--0l<br>&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren;&curren; <br>Tim OAKLEY <br>MAURY-Imprimeur, <br>Z.I, Route d'Etampes <br>45330 MALESHERBES Cedexh
 <br>France <p>Tel: (33) 02.38.32.34.38b <br>Fax: (33) 02.38.32.37.70' <br>Email : t.oakley@maury-imprimeur.fr"> <p>"OpenVMS is today what Microsoft hope Windows 5000 will be" <br>&nbsp;</html>    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 09:06:28 +0200 (MET)o From: ZINSER@sysdev.exchange.de.F Subject: Re: X-windows/DECwindows resource file locations and GV, etc.3 Message-ID: <01JQ9ZAFIZ5UAW83RV@sysdev.exchange.de>b   Hello!  J >         QUESTION: under what circumstances  are X-windows resource filesJ >     searched   for  in  the  DECW$SYSTEM_DEFAULTS:  directory?   Always?6 >     Sometimes?  Only when the window manager starts? > J >         The reason  I  ask  is  that  I've  recently  built  a couple ofJ >     X-windows  applications  on  VMS 7.2 (VAX) and 7.2-1  (Alpha)  underJ >     Compaq C 6.2,  namely  GV  (a  Ghostview  follow-on)  and  <shudder>J >     VNCVIEWER.   In  particular,  GV has about 3 or 4 different resourceJ >     files it wants to access,  e.g.,  GV_SYSTEM.DAT, but the method usedJ >     by  the  package  apparently  relies on these  files  being  in  theJ >     X11_ROOT:[DATA]   and/or   X11_ROOT:[DEFAULTS]   directories   (withJ >     X11_ROOT   appropriately   defined)  and  on  modifying  the  user'sJ >     DECW$DEFAULTS   logical   name    to    be    a   search-list   withJ >     X11_ROOT:[DEFAULTS] as the last translation.  In my environment, I'mJ >     sure  the procedure provided will get this logical name redefinition >     wrong... >   ? 	Well, since I'm kind of involved with GV, here is my setup....e   $ sh log decw$system_defaultso>    "DECW$SYSTEM_DEFAULTS" = "X11RESOURCES" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)% 	= "SYS$SYSROOT:[DECW$DEFAULTS.USER]"e' 	= "SYS$SYSROOT:[DECW$DEFAULTS.SYSTEM]"e 	= "SYS$LIBRARY:"e> 1  "X11RESOURCES" = "X11_ROOT:[RESOURCES]" (LNM$PROCESS_TABLE)< 1  "SYS$LIBRARY" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSLIB]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)S    "DECW$SYSTEM_DEFAULTS" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[DECW$DEFAULTS.USER]" (DECW$LOGICAL_NAMES) ' 	= "SYS$SYSROOT:[DECW$DEFAULTS.SYSTEM]"d 	= "SYS$LIBRARY:"h< 1  "SYS$LIBRARY" = "SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSLIB]" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE) $ dir decw$system_defaults:*gv*t   Directory X11_ROOT:[RESOURCES]  = GV.DAT;1                   1/20        1-JAN-1995 00:00:00.00r= GV_CLASS.DAT;1            78/80       23-APR-1999 16:22:43.03d= GV_COPYRIGHT.DAT;1         2/4         6-APR-1997 00:00:00.00e= GV_DUMMY.DAT;1             1/4         6-APR-1997 00:00:00.00o= GV_FONT_RES.DAT;1          8/12       26-APR-1997 00:00:00.00  GV_INTERN_RES_VMS.DAT;1 =                            1/4        19-FEB-1999 16:08:58.13d= GV_LANDSCAPE.DAT;1         7/20        1-JAN-1995 00:00:00.00v GV_LAYOUT_RES.DAT;1 =                           19/24        7-JUN-1997 00:00:00.00r= GV_MAKE_RES.DAT;1          1/4        19-FEB-1999 16:08:57.59O= GV_MESSAGE.DAT;1          10/20        1-JAN-1995 00:00:00.00-= GV_MISC_RES.DAT;1         43/48       21-JUN-1997 00:00:00.00U= GV_REGIONS.DAT;1          12/20        1-FEB-1995 00:00:00.00v= GV_SPARTAN.DAT;1           4/8         7-JUN-1997 00:00:00.00-= GV_SYSTEM.DAT;1            8/12       23-APR-1999 16:22:42.75e= GV_USER.DAT;1              8/12       19-FEB-1999 11:12:15.35o= GV_USER_RES.DAT;1          6/8        21-JUN-1997 00:00:00.00   " Total of 16 files, 209/300 blocks.    9 	I do keep the none-DECpaq suff in a separate directory, hF 	but as you can see this is still referenced via decw$system_defaults,* 	and yes this setup works fine with GV ;-)   						Greetings, Martin P Dr. Martin P.J. Zinser                                 zinser@sysdev.exchange.de2 Deutsche Boerse Systems AG                        O Koenigsberger Str. 29                                  Tel: +49 69 2101 5634   eL 60284 Frankfurt                                        FAX: +49 69 2101 3411P Germany                                                Private:  zinser@decus.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 09:21:11 +0900e2 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com>7 Subject: Re: Ӥqx~ Looks Like ChiCom SPAM to me~h+ Message-ID: <393CC287.70D81686@digital.com>n   Terry C. Shannon wrote:  > A > There are few things I hate as much as SPAM fron Bill Clinton'se. > "strategic partner," a.k.a. Communist China. > F >  Does anyone have a sure-fire method for nuking Chicom SPAM? Heck, IH > get more of this stuff each day than I get solicitations from Buddhist( > monks, et al, for the AlBore campaign! >  > ? >      "Ӥq" <ddddccccbbbb@pchome.com.tw> wrote in messageM% >      news:247323544@MVB.SAIC.COM...m* >                                 Ӥq Well, it is'nt Hebrew...   Mike -- nE ---------------------------------------------------------------------zE Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that. ? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*nF Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------o   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.315 ************************