1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 07 Jun 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 317       Contents:P Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=AC=FC=B0=D3=A4=BD=A5q=BCx=A4=7E?= Looks Like ChiComSPAM to mP Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=AC=FC=B0=D3=A4=BD=A5q=BCx=A4=7E?= Looks Like ChiComSPAM to m' Re: Actual vs Theoretical Network Speed ' Re: Actual vs Theoretical Network Speed ' Re: Actual vs Theoretical Network Speed ' Re: Actual vs Theoretical Network Speed  Re: archive solutions  Breathe New Life Into Your VAX! 
 re: C bashing 
 re: C bashing / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / RE: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures  Can't see tz87 from the console # Re: Can't see tz87 from the console # Re: Can't see tz87 from the console # Re: Can't see tz87 from the console # Re: Can't see tz87 from the console # Re: Can't see tz87 from the console # Re: Can't see tz87 from the console : Canadian Association of Compaq Users Symposium rescheduled. Re: Charon VAX on PC emulator - Asynch DECNET?. Re: Charon VAX on PC emulator - Asynch DECNET?. Re: Charon VAX on PC emulator - Asynch DECNET?= Connecting 3rd-party pointing devices to OpenVMS AXP systems. A Re: Connecting 3rd-party pointing devices to OpenVMS AXP systems.   RE: Console Monitoring Software.( De-crippling NT Only Digital Server 5305( Determining the speed of Ethernet boards, Re: Determining the speed of Ethernet boards, Re: Determining the speed of Ethernet boards, Re: Determining the speed of Ethernet boards, Re: Determining the speed of Ethernet boardsP Re: DIFF /IGNORE=(SPACING) questiion - was sent before with wrongsubjectline, so Re: directory listing  Re: directory listing . FS: Digital TZZ87 7-tape DLT Autoloader ; $500$ Re: Hobbyist vms 7.2 alpha questions$ Re: Hobbyist vms 7.2 alpha questions$ Re: Hobbyist vms 7.2 alpha questions$ Re: Hobbyist vms 7.2 alpha questions$ Re: Hobbyist vms 7.2 alpha questions$ Re: Hobbyist vms 7.2 alpha questions! Re: Java graphing applets for VMS ! Re: Java graphing applets for VMS ! Re: Java graphing applets for VMS ! Re: Java graphing applets for VMS ! Re: Java graphing applets for VMS ! Re: Java graphing applets for VMS ! Re: Java graphing applets for VMS  Re: Logging On As Root Re: Logging On As Root Re: MMOV 2.2 and VMS 7.1 Re: OpenVMS AND THE INTERNETA Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire) A Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire) A Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire) * Re: OpenVMS vs Tru64 Pathworks performanceG Re: OpenVMS, SMTP, and email spam (was Re: I'm Trying to ModelSomething 6 Part numbers for Qbus SCSI + ESDI controllers, anyone?9 Re: Prior version support was (Re: OpenVMS commentaries ) 9 Re: Prior version support was (Re: OpenVMS commentaries ) ( Syntax-coloring editors (was: C bashing) Re: vaxstation LED meanings? Re: vaxstation LED meanings? Re: vaxstation LED meanings?  VMS 7.2-1 + Winframe Java Client$ Re: VMS 7.2-1 + Winframe Java Client8 Re: What is the simplest way to network two VMS systems? Re: Where is javadoc for VMS?  Re: Where is javadoc for VMS? P Re: Windows NT hosted Uiltity that can read RMS index fles or VMS Backup formatt Re: X25 and psi$k_reset  Re: X25 and psi$k_reset   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 09:38:20 -0400 / From: Bradford Hamilton <Brad.Hamilton@fmr.com> Y Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=AC=FC=B0=D3=A4=BD=A5q=BCx=A4=7E?= Looks Like ChiComSPAM to m ' Message-ID: <393CFECC.7B5F23D9@fmr.com>    Mike Rechtman wrote: >  > Terry C. Shannon wrote:  > > C > > There are few things I hate as much as SPAM fron Bill Clinton's 0 > > "strategic partner," a.k.a. Communist China. <snip>  A > >      "Ӥq" <ddddccccbbbb@pchome.com.tw> wrote in message 1                                              ^^   < Sorry to pick a nit here, but isnt this message from Taiwan?   :-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 09:02:27 -0400 # From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu> Y Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=AC=FC=B0=D3=A4=BD=A5q=BCx=A4=7E?= Looks Like ChiComSPAM to m + Message-ID: <393E47E3.4B869982@hsc.vcu.edu>    ah so... ;-)   Bradford Hamilton wrote: >  > Mike Rechtman wrote: > >  > > Terry C. Shannon wrote:  > > > E > > > There are few things I hate as much as SPAM fron Bill Clinton's 2 > > > "strategic partner," a.k.a. Communist China. > <snip> > C > > >      "Ӥq" <ddddccccbbbb@pchome.com.tw> wrote in message 1 >                                              ^^ > > Sorry to pick a nit here, but isnt this message from Taiwan? >  > :-)    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 14:11:03 GMT 3 From: "Gord Coulman" <nospam_gcoulman@ccinet.ab.ca> 0 Subject: Re: Actual vs Theoretical Network Speed9 Message-ID: <XJs%4.1235$vT6.201324@news1.telusplanet.net>   = Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message 0 news:8hk06a$rvi$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com... > I > In article <16f%4.409$vT6.141326@news1.telusplanet.net>, "Gord Coulman" & <nospam_gcoulman@ccinet.ab.ca> writes:F > :Can anyone recommend a good utility to measure the actual bandwidthL > :available between two machines?  A Win9x utility is what I need (only one > :OpenVMS machine). > * >   Is "actual bandwidth" an oxymoron? :-)6 >   Seriously, dts/dtr is one such tool, given DECnet.' >   The ping tool is another, given IP.   E I don't see how ping would be helpful, since it measures latency, not 2 bandwidth and it sends very small amounts of data.  F >   You could simply try whatever task it is that you need to perform,E >   as that will provide you with the effective end-to-end bandwidth.   L I don't agree.  I have experimented by copying files of different sizes backG and forth, but I can't be sure that the network is the limiting factor. C Maybe its the disk drives, the disk controller, the O/S, who knows? L What I need is a utility that will send large amounts of data back and forthH using files cached in memory, to ensure that what is really being testedI includes only the network software and hardware.  It would be nice if the G utility was smart enough to then figure out throughput in Mbits/sec and  display a running average.   Gord.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 15:50:29 +0100* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>0 Subject: Re: Actual vs Theoretical Network Speed+ Message-ID: <8hlnfl$ppc@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>   > "Gord Coulman" <nospam_gcoulman@ccinet.ab.ca> wrote in message3 news:XJs%4.1235$vT6.201324@news1.telusplanet.net...   N > What I need is a utility that will send large amounts of data back and forthJ > using files cached in memory, to ensure that what is really being testedK > includes only the network software and hardware.  It would be nice if the I > utility was smart enough to then figure out throughput in Mbits/sec and  > display a running average.  G The netperf benchmark, which is pretty much the standard tool for these I things, has been ported to NT. Probably does '95 too. See www.netperf.org   C I can get about 9Mb/s over shared 10Mb. I guess you should see ~50.    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2000 15:12:54 GMT 2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)0 Subject: Re: Actual vs Theoretical Network Speed+ Message-ID: <8hlopm$6r@gap.cco.caltech.edu>   X In article <8hlnfl$ppc@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>, "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> writes: > ? >"Gord Coulman" <nospam_gcoulman@ccinet.ab.ca> wrote in message 4 >news:XJs%4.1235$vT6.201324@news1.telusplanet.net... > O >> What I need is a utility that will send large amounts of data back and forth K >> using files cached in memory, to ensure that what is really being tested L >> includes only the network software and hardware.  It would be nice if theJ >> utility was smart enough to then figure out throughput in Mbits/sec and >> display a running average.  > H >The netperf benchmark, which is pretty much the standard tool for theseJ >things, has been ported to NT. Probably does '95 too. See www.netperf.org > D >I can get about 9Mb/s over shared 10Mb. I guess you should see ~50.  6 You might also try NetPipe.  Pick up source code from:  <     ftp://ftp.scl.ameslab.gov/pub/netpipe/netpipe-2.3.tar.gz  ) and VMS variants of 2.3 and 2.4beta from:   ,   http://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/pub/SOFTWARE  E (trivial code changes, but since I've already done them, no need for   anybody else to.)     K See http://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/www/vmstcpip/AAAREADME.TXT for some more  ( information about running it on OpenVMS.   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech     ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2000 16:26:13 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)0 Subject: Re: Actual vs Theoretical Network Speed6 Message-ID: <8hlt35$nsc$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  o In article <XJs%4.1235$vT6.201324@news1.telusplanet.net>, "Gord Coulman" <nospam_gcoulman@ccinet.ab.ca> writes: 6 :Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote...G :>   You could simply try whatever task it is that you need to perform, F :>   as that will provide you with the effective end-to-end bandwidth.M :I don't agree.  I have experimented by copying files of different sizes back H :and forth, but I can't be sure that the network is the limiting factor.  D   If copying your files is your application, then that is your test.  D :Maybe its the disk drives, the disk controller, the O/S, who knows?  3   That's *exactly* my point.  _Where_ is the limit?   M :What I need is a utility that will send large amounts of data back and forth I :using files cached in memory, to ensure that what is really being tested 1 :includes only the network software and hardware.   C   Concentrating on any particular area -- without evidence that the B   particular area is the application performance bottleneck -- is E   seldom a fruitful approach.  (But beware, lest you end up carefully &   optimizing the system idle loop. :-)  E :It would be nice if the utility was smart enough to then figure out  7 :throughput in Mbits/sec and display a running average.   B   This is arguably feasible with various tools, but -- as I hintedC   when I remarked that "actual bandwidth" was an oxymoron -- it is  B   meaningless without a whole lot more context wrapped around the D   question.  "Context" here includes such things as other unrelated F   network traffic -- since what is an easily sustainable network load H   in my LAN may well be an impossible load given the level of unrelated    traffic in your LAN.  E   Controller counters can be examined for retries and traffic levels, D   which can give you some idea of what is going on.  The DECnet lineH   and circuit counters -- particularly the incrementing of the back-off K   counters -- can give you a good idea when you "hit the wall" in your LAN.   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 10:29:46 +0100 2 From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: archive solutions6 Message-ID: <393E1609.DE60FF8F@BlueBubble.demon.co.uk>   Francesco Gennai wrote:   G > I need to archive about 25.0000 fax/month (9 Gb/month not compressed) > > received on our OpenVMS 7.2-1 SCSI cluster (with RAID 7000).D > (The fax are in postscript format (not compressed !). I think thatN > a compression on such file should reduce thefile dimension of about a factor > of 10) > E > Currently we use the Archive Backup Solution from Storage Solutions G > Specialists, Inc. to move (monthly) all the faxes on a IBM/Aix server ? > that offer a generic backup/archive solution shared among all ! > our hosts (PC, servers, etc...)  > D > I need to find a dedicated solution (only for faxes archives) that= > should permit an automatic retrieval of the faxes for about H > (let say) 1 year and have a good flexibility also in storing the media > in some off-line safe place. > ? > I'm not an expertise on archive solutions, so I would receive B > all the best suggestion from this forum in terms of hardware andC > software that I should/could use for a dedicated OpenVMS solution  > for the above faxes needs.  F While I agree with the recommendation to use HSM (Hierarchical Storage" Manager) for VMS, it is not cheap.  F If money is "short", then consider what you can achieve with somethingB like ZIP and standard VMS text libraries.  I implemented a similarH setup using this for a previous customer, and it works very well.  It isB used for archive for a 7-year moving window for a large Tru64 UnixG environment, and already has about 1,500,000 files in the archive, some + of which are pretty big (up to 100 Mbytes).   F Users can automatically retrieve individual files by sending an e-mailB to a daemon (using DELIVER), and retrieval takes around 30 seconds? on the average.  The customer is, AFAIK, very pleased with this 	 solution.   , Ah, VMS ... why settle for anything less :-)  	 Roy Omond  Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 12:24:50 -0400) From: "Dino LaMana" <dixon@friend.ly.net> ( Subject: Breathe New Life Into Your VAX!. Message-ID: <sjstjjq02t580@corp.supernews.com>  <     Here is a question for all; how do you do the following:  H         Connect to an RBS file on a VAX system using SQL 7 and NT 4 SP5?  K     I've been assigned to figure out a way to "mirror" the old VAX data and I "new" SQL Server data.  My knowledge in this area is very limited and any L assisstance would be greatly appreciated!  Our ablilty to do this would saveD myself and a few other hundreds of hours of writting/testing code toE generate textfiles on both systems, transfer them via Reflections and  update.    Dino R. LaMana mailto:dixon@friend.ly.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 11:31:17 +0100 / From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>  Subject: re: C bashing7 Message-ID: <009EB3FC.5C2C6C6B.10@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>    Christopher Smith wrote   J > I'd be perfectly happy to develop a large chunk of my code in pascal (orE > modula-N, where N is some posative integer...), but unfortunately I K > haven't been able to talk my employer into springing for a compiler -- if J > I can even find a decent compiler to run on this billybox trash that I'm > writing apps for.. ;)   J Delphi? It's Pascal-based, and it has a good reputation. I can't vouch for. it, because I very rareely program billyboxes.  K If you want C for cheap, there's Cygwin. It's a port of GCC to Win32, with  > most of the usual unix command-line tools. It's $99. It works. http://www.cygnus.com/cygwin  I Ot you could try infiltrating some Perl / TCL / Python. All are available , for Win32 as well as for operating systems.    > O > > I'd also like to see something developed other than BLISS. I'm sure we can   > > do better these days.  > J > I'd like to see some of the better things that we've got get more use...K > once everyone's using something sane, in a sane manner, then we can worry % > about making new, better languages.  > J > It's a real shortcoming of most "programmers" that they have no idea howG > to pick the best language for a given task, and a shortcoming of most C > users that they can't pick the right computer for a given task...   E You alluded to one problem above: employers who won't fork out for >1 F compiler. Then there's the difficulty of mixed-language programming onI many platforms (notably excluding VMS). Then there's the idea that if yousK standardise on C, you'll be able to hire from a larger pool of programmers, O and any of them will do. (NOT! Knowing a programming language or many is a very D small part of being able to usefully contribute to a big programming= project. As opposed to a big programming disaster, that is. )v   	Yours,a
 		Nigel Arnot - 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                      7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."w   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 16:57:46 +0000 (   ) 3 From: Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com>e Subject: re: C bashingJ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10006071644090.13762-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com>  & On Wed, 7 Jun 2000, Nigel Arnot wrote:   > Christopher Smith wroteV  M > If you want C for cheap, there's Cygwin. It's a port of GCC to Win32, with  @ > most of the usual unix command-line tools. It's $99. It works. > http://www.cygnus.com/cygwin  H Well, slightly OT, we use metrowerks codewarrior here for C, and C++.  ID find it a much more solid product than microshaft's compiler (and itI supports ansi c, unlike the microshaft product).  I just wish that they'dSF ported their pascal compiler (this product will also build pascal code& relatively well on mac-os) to windows.  K > Ot you could try infiltrating some Perl / TCL / Python. All are availablel. > for Win32 as well as for operating systems.   J We've done quite a bit of that, actually.  More TCL than the others, since6 the windows version of wish is pretty easy to come by.  L > > I'd like to see some of the better things that we've got get more use...M > > once everyone's using something sane, in a sane manner, then we can worryD' > > about making new, better languages.s > > L > > It's a real shortcoming of most "programmers" that they have no idea howI > > to pick the best language for a given task, and a shortcoming of mostoE > > users that they can't pick the right computer for a given task...n > G > You alluded to one problem above: employers who won't fork out for >1 H > compiler. Then there's the difficulty of mixed-language programming onK > many platforms (notably excluding VMS). Then there's the idea that if youO  9 That's something that I've gone up against several times.e  M > standardise on C, you'll be able to hire from a larger pool of programmers,TQ > and any of them will do. (NOT! Knowing a programming language or many is a veryaF > small part of being able to usefully contribute to a big programming? > project. As opposed to a big programming disaster, that is. )t  ( I've tried to tell people this too... ;)  J It's difficult to figure out whether to keep trying to convince people, or5 just give up and let them figure it out the hard way.a   Regards,   Chris   O ===============================================================================o@ "My two cents"			(http://rootworks.com/twocentsworth.cgi?128562)= Christopher Smith(chriss@pubserv.com)			Prgramer^W Programmere Prime Synergy of Champaign, IL. % -------------------------------------tI "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes andmH weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes; and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949 nO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------p   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 04:39:33 GMTO. From: cjundieseastwd@powerup.com.au (Obakesan)8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures/ Message-ID: <8hkjjh$a3u4@inetbws1.citec.com.au>    HiYa  3 just lurking on this (interesting) thread until ...   I In article <009EB385.0A8C9D0B@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG s wrote:  H >I fear C programmer because of the shit that they typically produce.  II >code with C -- when I have too -- and take an extra effort to be certain  >that it is: >_ >  1. readableC >  2. not cluttered with function(function(function(function()))));a: >  3. not littered with the kludged/buggy C library calls  >B  C I think you have a bias that shows in what you've written so far...A  G >Clean your KLOK.  It really take very little effort to create quality fF >software.  It needs only a process and a desire to write quality s/w.  E precisely, quality standards & methodologies. Stick to them. Then it  F really doesn't matter if you use BLISS or C does it ... unless you're F about to argue that the language of choice somehow obviates the needs  for quality procedures?^       --   See Ya# (when the bandwidth gets better ;-)mH Chris Eastwood                            Please remove undies for reply Photographer, Stunt Programmer Motorcyclist and dingbat   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 10:07:36 +0200h= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> 8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures) Message-ID: <393E02C8.FB17B24B@gtech.com>e   Dann Corbit wrote:N > OpenVMS is written mostly in C.  I think that qualifies as a piece of robust > code.a   ????  D AFAIK then very little of the VMS core is written in C (Macro-32 and Bliss> are still dominant).  E There must be tons of C code in DECWindows, UCX and PathWorks though.e But I B am not sure that I would characterize those components as the most" bug-free and reliable components !   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 10:05:26 +0200t= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>08 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures) Message-ID: <393E0245.598B9985@gtech.com>8   Christopher Smith wrote:) > On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Dan Sugalski wrote:$+ > > The original Pascal sucked too, though.m > / > The bytecode was an interesting idea, though.a   ????  9 The original Pascal was developed by Wirth on a CDC Cybera& and did generate real executable code.  7 You are thinking of the UCSD Pascal and P-code concept. 5 That in many ways was based on the same ideas as Java,6 (but the hardware was just not fast enough back then).   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 11:07:14 GMTs= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)f8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures0 Message-ID: <009EB3D7.7897680A@SendSpamHere.ORG>  \ In article <393DA8C9.CD7CFA8C@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:' >"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:bJ >> I fear C programmer because of the shit that they typically produce.  IK >> code with C -- when I have too -- and take an extra effort to be certaini >> that it is: >a > J >code is as good as the programmer (or the tool that produces such code).    I'd have to agree.  M >Cobol more readable than C ? Depends who wrote it. Once used a tool that was L >supposed to simplify everything and generate perfect COBOL code. I ended upM >having to wait for the floor to be empty and stretch the listing to span theeO >whole floor and litterally had to run through the code to find out what it was:N >doing due to all the weird paragraph names etc etc. Of course, there was CICSK >code in there too (which goes through a pre-processor to be converted intos >weirder function calls).1  K I've never found a need for COBOL.  I've looked at code and I have provided J some simple system routines which COBOL programmers could call but that is, as close to the language as I dared venture.  M >Any code in any language can be made unreadable. Some programmers think thathN >fancy/complex C constructs result in faster programs, or impress their bossesN >with fancy routines. But once compiled with a good compiler, I am not sure it >makes much of a difference.  J That's it!  I'm not saying all C programmers but I've come across enough CJ code to find stuff that I truly disdain.  Pointers represented by a singleK character embedded in a statement with multiple function reference nestings)J and many pre/post decrement/increment operations.  It makes debugging dif-J ficult and understanding the construct even more difficult.  In addition, I you're very likely NOT going to find a comment explaining the 'expected' cK function of such code.  Many a C programmer seems to be from a school that .C C is a self-documenting language obviating the need for comments.  o  I You can do tricky manipulations in many programming languages.  I've doneiH my share of assembler 'hacks' but I've taken the time to document what IJ have done in great detail.  Some of my code has more comment than code by  a significant ratio.     --N VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001           VAXman@TMESIS.COM  L GNU Freeware -- What does the GNU *really* stand for?  Garbage!  Not Usable!   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2000 11:20:25 GMT.* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures. Message-ID: <8hlb5p$qrq$1@info.service.rug.nl>  @ In article <393d8cc4@news.kapsch.co.at>, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes: A  V >In article <vLf%4.390$tV4.42@client>, "Dann Corbit" <dcorbit@solutionsiq.com> writes:! >>OpenVMS is written mostly in C.a >c3 >Did you check it with the VMS source listing CDs ?oG >I got the impression by people who have this listings (not me, sorry),s >that this is BULLSHIT.a  G >No. Only newer pieces are written in C and they appear to be much more-6 >flaky than earlier VMS pieces (written in BLISS, ...)  @ I believe VMS on VAX was written in MACRO, BLISS, PL/I (at leastD MONITOR), perhaps some Pascal, Fortran, C,....  For ALPHA, much was E rewritten in C.  Perhaps this is related to MAIL being broken to the eI extent that /OLD was added as a qualifier to get the "correct" behaviour aB (without some new features).  When will this be fixed, by the way?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 17:04:45 -1300 - From: John Reagan <reagan@hiyall.zko.dec.com>I8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures2 Message-ID: <393D2F2D.1017FB0F@hiyall.zko.dec.com>   Dan Sugalski wrote:   4 > >Both Compaq C and Compaq Pascal use GEM on alpha.I > >I would be surprised if there is that much difference in the generatedn& > >machine code for a given algorithm. > L > I wouldn't. I'd expect the Pascal code to be faster. Courtesy of pointers,J > optimising C's a pain. (The Fortran compiler folks have commented on the- > ease of optimizing Fortran vs C before too)i >   H Until recently, I'd agree.  The Pascal coding often was a little tighterH due to C's pointers as you mentioned.  Pascal has its own "problems" forC optimizing, namely, VAR parameters and uplevel referencing.  Not asu? wide-spred as pointers in C and not quite as hard to analyze...e  E However, the folks on the C compiler have spent lots of time over theiE past couple of years improving the pointer alias analysis.  Given the D current version of Compaq C vs Compaq Pascal it might be a dead heatH with the C compiler winning over the Pascal compiler.  I haven't had theE "pressure" from getting good benchmark numbers like the C and Fortrann
 folks get.   -- n John Reaganh Compaq Pascal Project Leader   P.S. Hi Wayne!   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2000 07:47:44 CDTe= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.044962.killspam.0138 (Wayne Sewell)i8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures. Message-ID: <mm0UqdQic5Db@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  V In article <6dg%4.393$tV4.185@client>, "Dann Corbit" <dcorbit@solutionsiq.com> writes:9 > "Peter LANGSTOEGER" <eplan@kapsch.net> wrote in messagee$ > news:393d8cc4@news.kapsch.co.at...6 >> In article <vLf%4.390$tV4.42@client>, "Dann Corbit"# > <dcorbit@solutionsiq.com> writes:-# >> >OpenVMS is written mostly in C.n >>5 >> Did you check it with the VMS source listing CDs ?-I >> I got the impression by people who have this listings (not me, sorry),n >> that this is BULLSHIT.o > G > Really.  The Alpha required a rewrite so that the old MACRO had to beB	 > ported.. >   L It had to be *ported*; it did not necessarily have to be *converted*.   VeryG little of the vms source code written in macro had to be converted to a(L different language to support alpha, if any.   Some of it had to be modifiedH because of vaxisms in the code, but it did *not* have to be converted.  O Digital basically created a macro *compiler*, treating vax macro like any other N computer language, including even optimization.   In other words, a single vaxJ instruction produces many alpha machine instructions.  Contrast this to anG assembler, in which there is a one-to-one correspondence between sourcesN instruction and machine instruction.   From the viewpoint of a risc processor,L a cisc instruction set *is* a high level language.  In any case, much of theN vms source code is *still* macro, built with the vax *assembler* and the alpha, *compiler* from basically the same source.      K You accused someone else in this thread of pulling information out of their M ass.  It appears you are doing the same.  You simply assumed all of the macro.F code had to be converted to another language, and then you assumed theM conversion was to C.  If conversion had actually been required, it could havea just as easily been to Bliss.g     Waynea -- aO ===============================================================================uM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxg: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)1O ===============================================================================-C Jake Blues: "Sell me your children!  How much for the little girl?"n   ------------------------------  " Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 15:26:29 GMT, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures+ Message-ID: <dwVC$bCXhDE0@eisner.decus.org>2  V In article <6dg%4.393$tV4.185@client>, "Dann Corbit" <dcorbit@solutionsiq.com> writes: > K > Produce some statistics or admit that you are completely full of crap andnM > just spouting without a grain of knowlege.  The Y2K problems (for instance)AJ > were mostly COBOL.  The greatest amount of defects is COBOL, but that isK > largely because it is also the greatest volume of code.  I have a feelingiM > you are a blowhard.  Legacy programmers fear C programmers because they are " > afraid of Unix (Tru64 included).  F See the original Java white paper for an intelligent discussion on theC relative merits and troubles of various languages.  Or do you thinkpD Sun and the inventors of Java are legacy programmers afraid of UNIX?  H > Defects per KLOC is pretty much a universal constant unless incredibleM > effort is made to ensure quality (E.g. space shuttle efforts, and things of. > that ilk.)  G No.  Things like having pointers in a language are directly mappable toy= increased defects per LOC.  That white paper has an excellent H bibliography pointing to the research that shows this.  Java's inventors1 can be credited for addressing real world issues.i  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporatione= Hubble Space Telescope Payload  | Federal Sector, Civil Group E  Flight Software Team           | please remove ".aspm" when replyingC   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 13:40:09 GMTd4 From: "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam>8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching FuturesD Message-ID: <Zgs%4.3227$2X2.129940@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:393DA8C9.CD7CFA8C@videotron.ca...( > "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:K > > I fear C programmer because of the shit that they typically produce.  IsL > > code with C -- when I have too -- and take an extra effort to be certain > > that it is:  >  > J > code is as good as the programmer (or the tool that produces such code). >pE Agreed.  I tried to go through some Ada code.  After a few minutes, IsJ started wishing for a program that would replace all comments with spaces,H leaving end of line markers so I could put the source and the documentedG source next to each other.  The comments were so heavy that I literallyr& couldn't find the actual program code.  I C's biggest problem is that is very, very easy to create write only code.rK By that, I mean code that can't be easily read, and worse, is impossible tolI modify.  I know this group hates MS, but the MS C compilers have a switch J that will allow the compiler to warn you about many of the denser things CL can do, such as assignment and conditionals in one statement.  I assume thatJ any decent C compiler today would have such a capability, which helps, but& doesn't replace good coding practices.  L As to why C programs have more flaws than BLISS - simple - there's more codeH in C than in BLISS.  It would be interesting to know how much of the new) code in VMS is actually ported from Unix.   
 Mike Ober.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 16:33:39 +0000 (   )e3 From: Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com>t8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching FuturesJ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10006071622410.13762-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com>  & On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Dann Corbit wrote:  K > Produce some statistics or admit that you are completely full of crap anduM > just spouting without a grain of knowlege.  The Y2K problems (for instance)oJ > were mostly COBOL.  The greatest amount of defects is COBOL, but that isK > largely because it is also the greatest volume of code.  I have a feeling M > you are a blowhard.  Legacy programmers fear C programmers because they arei" > afraid of Unix (Tru64 included).  I Could you define "legacy programmer," please?  You wouldn't be using thatbI in the context of "anyone who doesn't happen to program in c," would you? G I can tell you from experience that there are languages out there whichw8 meet and surpass the quality of c for most applications.  H That aside, why should "legacy programmers" (that's an ammusing term) beG afraid of unix? (Has it occured to you that unix is an older technologyfH than most things still in use today -- a few multics installations still+ around, and other things, but in general...   J Then, thirdly, please tell me why being afraid of unix would also make oneH afraid of c programmers? (Before you answer, consider that c code can beJ built on anything from cp/m to MVS (VMS included, allthough it's not as ifF the o/s were written in it... ;) these days)  I hope you don't mean toE suggest that c has unbreakable ties to the unix o/s, since that wouldi? probably make it a worse choice to develop a new o/s in, right?n    - I may just be missing something, let me know.    Regards,   Chris     O ===============================================================================)@ "My two cents"			(http://rootworks.com/twocentsworth.cgi?128562)= Christopher Smith(chriss@pubserv.com)			Prgramer^W Programmerw Prime Synergy of Champaign, IL.=% -------------------------------------=I "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes andmH weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes; and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949 -O -------------------------------------------------------------------------------8   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 16:41:45 +0000 (   )03 From: Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com>M8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching FuturesJ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10006071640240.13762-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com>  5 On Wed, 7 Jun 2000, Arne [iso-8859-1] Vajh=F8j wrote:i   > Christopher Smith wrote:1 > > The bytecode was an interesting idea, though.i   > ????  ; > The original Pascal was developed by Wirth on a CDC Cyberu( > and did generate real executable code.  9 > You are thinking of the UCSD Pascal and P-code concept.s7 > That in many ways was based on the same ideas as Javab8 > (but the hardware was just not fast enough back then).  9 Sorry, I jumped ahead a bit there, didn't I? ... but yes.e   Regards,   Chris   L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=L =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3DF "My two cents"=09=09=09(http://rootworks.com/twocentsworth.cgi?128562)C Christopher Smith(chriss@pubserv.com)=09=09=09Prgramer^W Programmeri Prime Synergy of Champaign, IL.c% -------------------------------------tI "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes andhH weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes= and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949=20iL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----   ------------------------------  " Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 18:48:03 GMT9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)=8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures+ Message-ID: <9JWtJiScYusT@eisner.decus.org>t  [ In article <8hlb5p$qrq$1@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:s  B > I believe VMS on VAX was written in MACRO, BLISS, PL/I (at leastF > MONITOR), perhaps some Pascal, Fortran, C,....  For ALPHA, much was G > rewritten in C.  Perhaps this is related to MAIL being broken to the nK > extent that /OLD was added as a qualifier to get the "correct" behaviour z > (without some new features).  C I would be the last one to defend C, but I believe most of the Mail-D rewrite problems seen by those outside DEC were due to an inadequateE understanding of all the features built into Mail.  That could happeneF regardless of the language chosen for the new implementation. ConsiderD whether programs _you_ have written have enough design documentationD that someone who has never met you can implement the "same thing" in another language.a  C That said, given that they had decided to rewrite Mail, they shouldD/ certainly have chosen a better language than C.    ------------------------------  " Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 18:41:11 GMT9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)r8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures+ Message-ID: <murWTdLG9YGg@eisner.decus.org>0  p In article <009EB385.0A8C9D0B@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:  H > Clean your KLOK.  It really take very little effort to create quality G > software.  It needs only a process and a desire to write quality s/w.d  E No, it also requires time.  Some people are not given enough, perhaps B because they are competing against those for whom quality is not a significant priority.v   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 17:14:16 +0000 (   )s3 From: Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com> 8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching FuturesJ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10006071707290.13762-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com>  # On Wed, 7 Jun 2000, it was written:O  K > C's biggest problem is that is very, very easy to create write only code. M > By that, I mean code that can't be easily read, and worse, is impossible tooK > modify.  I know this group hates MS, but the MS C compilers have a switchOL > that will allow the compiler to warn you about many of the denser things CN > can do, such as assignment and conditionals in one statement.  I assume thatL > any decent C compiler today would have such a capability, which helps, but( > doesn't replace good coding practices.  I Yes, most decent compilers that I'm aware of have very good warnings, andnF I wouldn't reccomend the m$ compiler, since on top of this (which is aJ good feature...) it will also fill your code with a bunch of commented-outI garbage that gets uncommented when the program compiles (no joke.. and bykH garbage, i mean macro functions, and the like...) the first time you tryC and use one of the many other "features" like the gui-designer...  .  D So, in short, no thanks, I'd rather design my own gui than have this& (poor) compiler try to modify my code.  B I have a pet peeve with visual c++, so sorry if I'm ranting.  Your/ original point is good, and I don't dispute it.e  N > As to why C programs have more flaws than BLISS - simple - there's more codeJ > in C than in BLISS.  It would be interesting to know how much of the new+ > code in VMS is actually ported from Unix.u  E It could be explained that way, but I have a feeling that people just I aren't as concious of their coding habbits as they have been in the past.bI I think that most people who are getting into "the field" today are theredE for the money, and really have no talent or motivation. (Allthough ifaB somebody can offer me proof to the contrary, I'll gladly have it.)   Regards,   ChrisC  O =============================================================================== @ "My two cents"			(http://rootworks.com/twocentsworth.cgi?128562)= Christopher Smith(chriss@pubserv.com)			Prgramer^W Programmers Prime Synergy of Champaign, IL.t% -------------------------------------rI "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes andPH weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes; and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949 iO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------g   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 13:22:21 -0400 # From: John Vottero <John@MVPSI.com> 8 Subject: RE: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures: Message-ID: <C15945A9D9EFCF11BA8B08002BBF1CCC0CD71A@BERRY>   >  > Dan Sugalski wrote:n@ > > Right, but being forced to care means that if you miss, you  > lose. Computer? > > languages are supposed to help the programmer avoid making A
 > mistakes. C F > > requires the use of some constructs that are terribly error-prone. >  > requires ? ? ? ? ? ? e > = > Perhaps you mean "C code that can be ported to Unix" or "C - > code that was 9 > written on Windows". But I disagree that "C" by itself  " > "requires" dangerous constructs. >R  
 How about:     if (xyz = abc)       {r       dothis();3       }0  	 or maybe:.      for (i=0; i<100; i++);w       {        do that();       }    or maybe this:      /* '    **  C comments keep going and going!c    *\  <---oops!%    printf("This will never print\n");e      /*h     **  And, there are no errors!    */aA    printf("C has lots of problems, that's why there's C++ :)"\n);.          ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 17:33:18 GMTv4 From: "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam>8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching FuturesD Message-ID: <yHv%4.3802$2X2.144582@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  @ "Christopher Smith" <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com> wrote in messageD news:Pine.LNX.4.05.10006071707290.13762-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com...% > On Wed, 7 Jun 2000, it was written:o >oG > > C's biggest problem is that is very, very easy to create write onlyi code.eL > > By that, I mean code that can't be easily read, and worse, is impossible toF > > modify.  I know this group hates MS, but the MS C compilers have a switchL > > that will allow the compiler to warn you about many of the denser things C K > > can do, such as assignment and conditionals in one statement.  I assume- thatJ > > any decent C compiler today would have such a capability, which helps, butl* > > doesn't replace good coding practices. >iK > Yes, most decent compilers that I'm aware of have very good warnings, andoH > I wouldn't reccomend the m$ compiler, since on top of this (which is aL > good feature...) it will also fill your code with a bunch of commented-outK > garbage that gets uncommented when the program compiles (no joke.. and bylJ > garbage, i mean macro functions, and the like...) the first time you tryC > and use one of the many other "features" like the gui-designer...t > F > So, in short, no thanks, I'd rather design my own gui than have this( > (poor) compiler try to modify my code. > D > I have a pet peeve with visual c++, so sorry if I'm ranting.  Your1 > original point is good, and I don't dispute it.o >e  L I used the MS compiler as my sample because I don't have any experience withF the GCC or VMS C compilers.  I had tried older compilers for differentL systems, and they simply stunk.  As for the junk the MS Compiler ApplicationK Wizards put in, it does get in the way sometimes, but on the whole, it doesiD a good job of handling the messy stuff in MS-Windows programming andG includes debug build checks for invalid arguments in almost every call,mK which definitely helps catch pointer errors that the compiler itself can't.r  
 Mike Ober.   >o
 > Regards, >t > Chrisc >  >tL ============================================================================ ===i@ > "My two cents" (http://rootworks.com/twocentsworth.cgi?128562)= > Christopher Smith(chriss@pubserv.com) Prgramer^W Programmerb! > Prime Synergy of Champaign, IL. ' > -------------------------------------uK > "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes andtJ > weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes< > and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949L > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----  >t >    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2000 17:33:18 GMT=2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures6 Message-ID: <8hm10u$p5u$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  g In article <9JWtJiScYusT@eisner.decus.org>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:  ..D :I would be the last one to defend C, but I believe most of the MailE :rewrite problems seen by those outside DEC were due to an inadequaterF :understanding of all the features built into Mail.  That could happenG :regardless of the language chosen for the new implementation. ConsidergE :whether programs _you_ have written have enough design documentationcE :that someone who has never met you can implement the "same thing" ini :another language. ..  ?   Components of OpenVMS currently written in some languages arefA   (were) scheduled to be rewritten or otherwise ported over to C, @   largely for various aspects of maintainability.  MAIL was one E   such area, and has been ported over -- and as Larry comments, some eC   of the more indiosyncratic and obscure behaviour of the old MAIL L@   utility was not correctly emulated, hence various of the MAIL A   problem reports, and hence the inclusion of MAIL/OLD.  Some of nC   the existing Ada code in OpenVMS is/was another area that is/was uE   expected to be ported over to C, and at least one PL/I module (the yE   OpenVMS VAX password generator) will probably be replaced with the vC   C version used on OpenVMS Alpha, as well.  No wholesale migration(B   of implementation languages (to C or otherwise) is expected, of 	   course.v  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 12:07:07 GMT - From: Lonnie Carreau <Lonnie.Carreau@mci.com>-( Subject: Can't see tz87 from the console' Message-ID: <393E3AE8.E021EC28@mci.com>n  H I just purchased a tz87-va in a storageworks enclosure.  I slid the tz87E into  a BA350 that is connected to an alphastation 200 (palcode 5.56,yF SRM 7.0).  I cannot see the tape drive from the console, but I can seeG disks when I put them in  the same shelf.  I have tried moving the tape:A drive into different slots and tried changing the SCSI ID via the2G dipswitches on the back.  Nothing seems to work.  The work station doesmG have an internal drive and CD player.  I was careful to avoid conflicts.H there.  Does anyone have any ideas, or is this thing DOA?  BTW, I got itB from a guy through E-BAY.  I want to make sure that I am not doing3 something stupid before I try to get my money back.a   -Lonniet   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 14:37:51 +0200d2 From: Bernard Schluep <Bernard.Schluep@azisoft.ch>, Subject: Re: Can't see tz87 from the console* Message-ID: <393E421F.7CE9EF2A@azisoft.ch>  - What kind of disks do you have in the BA350 ?aE Some BA35x cannot work with any kind of units ("generation problem"). / If you have disk-VA, this is another problem...l   Bernardt     Lonnie Carreau wrote:d  J > I just purchased a tz87-va in a storageworks enclosure.  I slid the tz87G > into  a BA350 that is connected to an alphastation 200 (palcode 5.56,bH > SRM 7.0).  I cannot see the tape drive from the console, but I can seeI > disks when I put them in  the same shelf.  I have tried moving the tape C > drive into different slots and tried changing the SCSI ID via thetI > dipswitches on the back.  Nothing seems to work.  The work station does I > have an internal drive and CD player.  I was careful to avoid conflictsgJ > there.  Does anyone have any ideas, or is this thing DOA?  BTW, I got itD > from a guy through E-BAY.  I want to make sure that I am not doing5 > something stupid before I try to get my money back.- >-	 > -Lonnie-   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 13:16:06 GMTe. From: Lonnie Carreau <Lonnie.Carreau@wcom.com>, Subject: Re: Can't see tz87 from the console( Message-ID: <393E4B13.C97BBD6C@wcom.com>  N I have an rz28l and an rz28m.  The shelf itself is a BA350-SB.  Could you giveK me some more details about the "generation problem" and how I can determine 9 what kind of shelves should work with what kind of units?s   -Lonnien   Bernard Schluep wrote:  / > What kind of disks do you have in the BA350 ? G > Some BA35x cannot work with any kind of units ("generation problem").e1 > If you have disk-VA, this is another problem...e >C	 > Bernards >c > Lonnie Carreau wrote:o >nL > > I just purchased a tz87-va in a storageworks enclosure.  I slid the tz87I > > into  a BA350 that is connected to an alphastation 200 (palcode 5.56,aJ > > SRM 7.0).  I cannot see the tape drive from the console, but I can seeK > > disks when I put them in  the same shelf.  I have tried moving the tape E > > drive into different slots and tried changing the SCSI ID via the K > > dipswitches on the back.  Nothing seems to work.  The work station does K > > have an internal drive and CD player.  I was careful to avoid conflictsuL > > there.  Does anyone have any ideas, or is this thing DOA?  BTW, I got itF > > from a guy through E-BAY.  I want to make sure that I am not doing7 > > something stupid before I try to get my money back.h > >r > > -LonnieS   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 15:33:39 +0200t2 From: Bernard Schluep <Bernard.Schluep@azisoft.ch>, Subject: Re: Can't see tz87 from the console* Message-ID: <393E4F33.53919AA6@azisoft.ch>  0 What are the full name (RZ28L-VA and RZ28M-VA) ?   Lonnie Carreau wrote:   P > I have an rz28l and an rz28m.  The shelf itself is a BA350-SB.  Could you giveM > me some more details about the "generation problem" and how I can determinew; > what kind of shelves should work with what kind of units?r >r	 > -Lonniee >  > Bernard Schluep wrote: >L1 > > What kind of disks do you have in the BA350 ?aI > > Some BA35x cannot work with any kind of units ("generation problem").33 > > If you have disk-VA, this is another problem...a > >t > > Bernardg > >y > > Lonnie Carreau wrote:a > > N > > > I just purchased a tz87-va in a storageworks enclosure.  I slid the tz87K > > > into  a BA350 that is connected to an alphastation 200 (palcode 5.56,:L > > > SRM 7.0).  I cannot see the tape drive from the console, but I can seeM > > > disks when I put them in  the same shelf.  I have tried moving the tape5G > > > drive into different slots and tried changing the SCSI ID via therM > > > dipswitches on the back.  Nothing seems to work.  The work station doeseM > > > have an internal drive and CD player.  I was careful to avoid conflictsoN > > > there.  Does anyone have any ideas, or is this thing DOA?  BTW, I got itH > > > from a guy through E-BAY.  I want to make sure that I am not doing9 > > > something stupid before I try to get my money back.a > > >n
 > > > -Lonnieb   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 14:00:29 GMT . From: Lonnie Carreau <Lonnie.Carreau@wcom.com>, Subject: Re: Can't see tz87 from the console' Message-ID: <393E557A.97B0DC2@wcom.com>=   yes, they are both VAs.3   -Lonnie3   Bernard Schluep wrote:  2 > What are the full name (RZ28L-VA and RZ28M-VA) ? >3 > Lonnie Carreau wrote:" >=R > > I have an rz28l and an rz28m.  The shelf itself is a BA350-SB.  Could you giveO > > me some more details about the "generation problem" and how I can determine-= > > what kind of shelves should work with what kind of units?C > >q > > -Lonnie8 > >v > > Bernard Schluep wrote: > > 3 > > > What kind of disks do you have in the BA350 ?bK > > > Some BA35x cannot work with any kind of units ("generation problem").-5 > > > If you have disk-VA, this is another problem...- > > >-
 > > > Bernard- > > >- > > > Lonnie Carreau wrote:e > > >nP > > > > I just purchased a tz87-va in a storageworks enclosure.  I slid the tz87M > > > > into  a BA350 that is connected to an alphastation 200 (palcode 5.56,sN > > > > SRM 7.0).  I cannot see the tape drive from the console, but I can seeO > > > > disks when I put them in  the same shelf.  I have tried moving the tapeRI > > > > drive into different slots and tried changing the SCSI ID via the O > > > > dipswitches on the back.  Nothing seems to work.  The work station doesoO > > > > have an internal drive and CD player.  I was careful to avoid conflictshP > > > > there.  Does anyone have any ideas, or is this thing DOA?  BTW, I got itJ > > > > from a guy through E-BAY.  I want to make sure that I am not doing; > > > > something stupid before I try to get my money back.u > > > >M > > > > -Lonnieh   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 16:19:56 +0200d2 From: Bernard Schluep <Bernard.Schluep@azisoft.ch>, Subject: Re: Can't see tz87 from the console* Message-ID: <393E5A0C.D5CB4D39@azisoft.ch>  ! It is another problem I tought...v I must do some check now.    Bernardl     About "generation problem" :   BA350-SB (8-Bit Narrow Shelf) T Single-height shelf, configured for seven 3.5 devices, or four 3.5 devices and oneO 5.25 full-height device, or one 3.5 device and two 5.25 full-height devices.iQ Installation of redundant power supply reduces number of 3.5 devices by one. TwoEP 5.25 half-height devices (RRD4x, TZK1x) can be mounted in one 5.25 full-height! carrier.  FCC class B certified ..   -> only for xxxx-VA devicesf   BA356-SB (16-Bit Narrow Shelf)S Single-height 16-bit shelf, configured for seven 3.5 devices, or four 3.5 devicessN and one 5.25 full-height device, or one 3.5 device and two 5.25 full-heightR devices.  Installation of redundant power supply reduces number of 3.5 devices byP one. Two 5.25 half-height devices (RRD4x, TZK10/11) can be mounted in one 5.25B full-height carrier.  FCC class B certified.  Includes 1 BA35X-MH.  R -> only for xxxx-VW devices, but you could change something to accept xxxx-VA also   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 16:54:03 GMTb. From: Lonnie Carreau <Lonnie.Carreau@wcom.com>, Subject: Re: Can't see tz87 from the console( Message-ID: <393E7E29.9A4FB8A6@wcom.com>  T I was definitely aware of the VA vs. VW issue.  The guy that sold it to says that itN worked on a alpha 3000 running VMS.  I am trying to get more details about the configuration.   -Lonnien   Bernard Schluep wrote:  # > It is another problem I tought...e > I must do some check now.a >i	 > Bernarde >, > About "generation problem" : >  > BA350-SB (8-Bit Narrow Shelf)mV > Single-height shelf, configured for seven 3.5 devices, or four 3.5 devices and oneQ > 5.25 full-height device, or one 3.5 device and two 5.25 full-height devices.eS > Installation of redundant power supply reduces number of 3.5 devices by one. TwoeR > 5.25 half-height devices (RRD4x, TZK1x) can be mounted in one 5.25 full-height# > carrier.  FCC class B certified .t >  > -> only for xxxx-VA devicesr >   > BA356-SB (16-Bit Narrow Shelf)U > Single-height 16-bit shelf, configured for seven 3.5 devices, or four 3.5 devicesaP > and one 5.25 full-height device, or one 3.5 device and two 5.25 full-heightT > devices.  Installation of redundant power supply reduces number of 3.5 devices byR > one. Two 5.25 half-height devices (RRD4x, TZK10/11) can be mounted in one 5.25D > full-height carrier.  FCC class B certified.  Includes 1 BA35X-MH. >uT > -> only for xxxx-VW devices, but you could change something to accept xxxx-VA also   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 10:10:05 -04001 From: "alain legault" <alain.legault@nrcan.gc.ca>hC Subject: Canadian Association of Compaq Users Symposium rescheduledu* Message-ID: <8hll6n$rbn1@nrn2.NRCan.gc.ca>  : Canadian Association of Compaq Users Symposium rescheduled  G All of you will I'm certain appreciate that our efforts are directed at K providing our members with the best possible opportunities for professional J development, and the exchange of information and ideas. Our event, plannedK for later this month was showing indications of falling short of acceptableEE standards. After considerable deliberation and concerned for the bestrH interests of the Association and its members, the Executive Board of theK Canadian Association of Compaq Users (CANACU) has decided that the upcoming-3 June Symposium will be rescheduled to a later date.-  D Outside factors beyond the Associations control and some significantL communications challenges have combined to create the situation that has ledF the Board to take this measure.  We anticipate that we will be able to$ announce a rescheduled date shortly.  J The Association recognizes that a huge degree of effort and commitment hasH been demonstrated by a great many people in helping plan and prepare forH this event. The Association wishes to publicly acknowledge and thank allI these individuals, Associations, companies and partners who have providedpG support and who have expressed their understanding and support for thissK difficult decision. We very much look forward to work with them in the nearu future.f  H If you would like to discuss this further, I would be more than happy to@ review our decision process with you. Please send me an email to alain.legault@nrcan.gc.ca.     Yours truly,    
 Alain Legault*  
 Alain Legaultp	 President % Canadian Association of Compaq Users.     mailto:alain.legault@nrcan.gc.ca http://www.canacu.orgf   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 08:49:48 GMT-% From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com>:7 Subject: Re: Charon VAX on PC emulator - Asynch DECNET?n) Message-ID: <8hl2b9$iro$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   1 In article <393CFE21.C159172@clarityconnect.com>,54   "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> wrote: > No it is not supported.v  @ Ok but is there actually code in DECNET Phase IV to specifically@ break OPA0? or is it just not supported? In any case a colleague? has just told me that you can config the port to be txa0: (evenw1 though the demo documentation suggest you can't).a  A Given all of the the above it would seem to me that Asynch DECNET / should work. Suppose I'll have to try it out...a --
 Alan Greig    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 11:43:27 GMTe% From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com>C7 Subject: Re: Charon VAX on PC emulator - Asynch DECNET?,) Message-ID: <8hlcgs$pia$1@nnrp1.deja.com>c  ) In article <8hl2b9$iro$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, (   Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> wrote:3 > In article <393CFE21.C159172@clarityconnect.com>,p6 >   "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> wrote: > > No it is not supported.c >eB > Ok but is there actually code in DECNET Phase IV to specificallyB > break OPA0? or is it just not supported? In any case a colleagueA > has just told me that you can config the port to be txa0: (evene3 > though the demo documentation suggest you can't).t >kC > Given all of the the above it would seem to me that Asynch DECNET 1 > should work. Suppose I'll have to try it out...i   Nearly there I think...a  D Ok, it's at least ten years since I last used dynamic asynch DECNET.= What am I missing? Hmm.. do I need virtual terminals enabled?pF Seems to ring a bell. Can I just install dynswitch manually (open/head /share/priv?).  ? Yes, ok, ok.  I can probably look all this up but that involvesi@ finding the DECNET Phase IV docs etc when I should be doing real? work but, hey, this is fun. Any DECNET Phase IV gurus out thereW7 who can remind me of the sequence I need to go through.n  = Btw, I confirm again that I am not trying this for commercialt> purposes nor trying to break the limitations in the restricted< demo version (unless SRI forgot about asynch DECNET over the emulated serial ports).=  ; Here's where I am at the moment (MSCGAI is an emulated VAX)r  / SYSTEM|MSCGAI> set ter/switch=decnet/prot=ddcmpeE %LIB-E-ACTIMAGE, error activating image MSCGAI$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.]C [SYSLIB]DYN  SWITCH.EXE;1@ -SYSTEM-F-PRIVINSTALL, shareable images must be installed to run privileged imag8 e0@ %SYSTEM-F-PRIVINSTALL, shareable images must be installed to run privileged imaga em SYSTEM|MSCGAI> sho ter> Terminal: _TXA1:      Device_Type: VT300_Series  Owner: _TXA1:>                                               Username: SYSTEM  B    Input:    9600     LFfill:  0      Width:  80      Parity: None0    Output:   9600     CRfill:  0      Page:   24   Terminal Characteristics:sE    Interactive        Echo               Type_ahead         No Escapen?    No Hostsync        TTsync             Lowercase          TabrD    Wrap               Scope              No Remote          EightbitC    Broadcast          No Readsync        No Form            Fulldup E    No Modem           No Local_echo      Autobaud           No Hangup E    No Brdcstmbx       No DMA             No Altypeahd       Set_speed G    No Commsync        Line Editing       Insert editing     No Fallback F    No Dialup          No Secure server   No Disconnect      No PasthruH    No Syspassword     No SIXEL Graphics  Soft Characters    Printer port>    Numeric Keypad     ANSI_CRT           No Regis           No
 Block_modeD    Advanced_video     Edit_mode          DEC_CRT            DEC_CRT2>    DEC_CRT3           No DEC_CRT4        No DEC_CRT5        No
 Ansi_Color    VMS Style Input SYSTEM|MSCGAI> sho use/ful7       OpenVMS User Processes at  7-JUN-2000 12:11:26.56d7     Total number of users = 2,  number of processes = 3o  *  Username Process Name    PID     Terminal'  MIKE     MIKE          00000034  TXA2:n'  SYSTEM   SYSTEM        00000031  OPA0:A'  SYSTEM   _TXA1:        00000035  TXA1:a SYSTEM|MSCGAI> sho sys@ OpenVMS V6.2  on node MSCGAI   7-JUN-2000 12:11:30.52  Uptime  0 00:19:58F   Pid    Process Name    State  Pri      I/O       CPU       Page flts Pagesn< 00000021 SWAPPER         HIB     16        0   0 00:00:00.19 0      0< 00000025 CONFIGURE       HIB      8        6   0 00:00:00.11
 111    157< 00000027 IPCACP          HIB     10        7   0 00:00:00.09	 99    145e< 00000028 ERRFMT          HIB      9       27   0 00:00:00.16
 128    211< 00000029 OPCOM           HIB      6       52   0 00:00:00.31
 297    135< 0000002A AUDIT_SERVER    HIB     10       65   0 00:00:00.69
 521    777< 0000002B JOB_CONTROL     HIB      8       41   0 00:00:00.23
 192    277< 0000002C QUEUE_MANAGER   HIB      8       92   0 00:00:00.97
 626    824< 0000002D SECURITY_SERVER HIB     10       39   0 00:00:00.84 1001   1206h< 0000002E TP_SERVER       HIB     10       84   0 00:00:01.07
 205    312< 00000031 SYSTEM          LEF      4      509   0 00:00:19.54 3868    538d< 00000034 MIKE            LEF      8      521   0 00:00:05.19 3146    317m< 00000035 _TXA1:          CUR      7      631   0 00:00:07.94 4887    325I< 00000036 NETACP          HIB      9       29   0 00:00:00.40
 162    360< 00000037 EVL             HIB      6       32   0 00:00:00.42
 304    341  Nu< 00000038 REMACP          HIB      8        8   0 00:00:00.08	 83     41k SYSTEM|MSCGAI>     > -- > Alan Greig >-( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.  >l   -- --
 Alan Greig    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.s   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 13:22:53 GMTi0 From: carlini@true.lkg.dec.com (Antonio Carlini)7 Subject: Re: Charon VAX on PC emulator - Asynch DECNET?,* Message-ID: <8hlhnh$kbh@usenet.pa.dec.com>  P In article <8hlcgs$pia$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> wrote:E >Ok, it's at least ten years since I last used dynamic asynch DECNET.n >What am I missing?    A good memory :-)   G >Seems to ring a bell. Can I just install dynswitch manually (open/head  >/share/priv?).f   Yesv     > @ >Yes, ok, ok.  I can probably look all this up but that involvesA >finding the DECNET Phase IV docs etc when I should be doing realw@ >work but, hey, this is fun. Any DECNET Phase IV gurus out there8 >who can remind me of the sequence I need to go through.  A http://www.openvms.digital.com:8000/72final/6497/6497pro_017.htmly  O and head for appendix A. Admittedly this is for Phase V but Phase IV is pretty  N much the same. Except you load up NOA instead of ASY and DYNSWITCH instead of O ASYSWITCH and you don't do the Phase V NCL stuff, you do Phase IV stuff in NCP . using TX-0-0 or whatever.e   > > >Btw, I confirm again that I am not trying this for commercial? >purposes nor trying to break the limitations in the restrictedl= >demo version (unless SRI forgot about asynch DECNET over the  >emulated serial ports).  < >Here's where I am at the moment (MSCGAI is an emulated VAX) >i0 >SYSTEM|MSCGAI> set ter/switch=decnet/prot=ddcmpF >%LIB-E-ACTIMAGE, error activating image MSCGAI$DKA0:[SYS0.SYSCOMMON.] >[SYSLIB]DYN
 >SWITCH.EXE;1)A >-SYSTEM-F-PRIVINSTALL, shareable images must be installed to runr >privileged imag >eA >%SYSTEM-F-PRIVINSTALL, shareable images must be installed to runc >privileged imag >e    8 You need to install DYNSWITCH but I guess you know that.  N For a dynamically switched line (as opposed to a permanently connected one) I 7 believe that you need virtual terminals up and running:   6         $ MC SYSGEN CONNECT VTA0/NOADA/DRIVER=TTDRIVER   and you need  9         $ SET TER/PERM/EIGHT/MODEM/DISCONNECT ttwhatever:o  < I think you skip /MODEM if you are not actually dialling in.     AntonioC  I Antonio Carlini                            Mail: carlini@true.lkg.dec.comy# DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS Engineering 6 COMPAQ                                     Reading, UK   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 11:49:43 GMT  From: jesper.naur@dk.abb.comF Subject: Connecting 3rd-party pointing devices to OpenVMS AXP systems.) Message-ID: <8hlcsh$pt6$1@nnrp1.deja.com>i  ? In the Windows 9x/NT world, a large variety of pointing devices < is available, eg. mice, tracker balls, light pens, cordless, you name it.6 These products usually come with an associated driver,. which supports the device under Windows 9x/NT.  ? I'm looking for any available information related to using such - 3rd-party devices under OpenVMS, for example:s  @ 1) Any 3rd-party vendors, which supply OpenVMS drivers for their    pointing device.   B 2) Any relevant technical information, eg. hardware pinout, signal#    levels, telegram structure, etc.e  @ 3) Relevant information about OpenVMS 'mouse-driver-environment'>    (I do know the OpenVMS driver-environment in general - here:    I'm interested in whatever specifics apply to writing a    mouse driver).7   Many thanks in advance Jesper Naur     & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.n   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2000 14:48:25 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)J Subject: Re: Connecting 3rd-party pointing devices to OpenVMS AXP systems.6 Message-ID: <8hlnbp$l80$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  H In article <8hlcsh$pt6$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, jesper.naur@dk.abb.com writes:@ :In the Windows 9x/NT world, a large variety of pointing devices= :is available, eg. mice, tracker balls, light pens, cordless,r
 :you name it.h  E   On AlphaStation systems with the PS/2 interface, compatible widgetsb)   can likely operate on existing drivers.   C :2) Any relevant technical information, eg. hardware pinout, signal0$ :   levels, telegram structure, etc.  8   On AlphaStation widgets, these are the PS/2 interface.  A :3) Relevant information about OpenVMS 'mouse-driver-environment'r? :   (I do know the OpenVMS driver-environment in general - heret; :   I'm interested in whatever specifics apply to writing aw :   mouse driver).  @   I'll have to dig up details of the keyboard and mouse drivers.A   (I am not aware of any widespread use of replacements for these    widgets.)e  A   Older DEC-class, VAX-class, and related boxes DO NOT use wiringCF   nor signaling protocols that are compatible with PS/2-class widgets.@   For details on the older protocols, acquire a copy of the QDSSB   (VCB02) technical manual provided with older VAXstation systems.A   The full description of the (old, non-PS/2) keyboard and mouse  C   wiring and signaling protocols used occupies roughly fifty pages d2   in the QDSS (VCB02) controller technical manual.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 05:59:56 -0700g4 From: Joseph A Abernethy <Joseph.A.Abernethy@kp.org>) Subject: RE: Console Monitoring Software.i$ Message-ID: <247892071@MVB.SAIC.COM>  do any of these other products give you the ability like Polycenter Console Manager in which you could connect to directly to the console either through the GUI or using the command line?  This is one of the features I like most about the product.  I could sit at my desk or dial in from home and watch and interact with the console with out having to go upstairs to the computer room or drive in to work.  0 Just curious ...   Joseph G Abernethy Kaiser PermanenteS OpenVMS/Unix Systems ProgrammerC DSM Management Silver Spring, MDs voice: 301-680-1618B fax: 301-680-1626        Stuart,r  I Most console manager products work on the basis of supporting any consolet that outputs ascii text.  I The real issue is what do these console mgmt products support in terms ofsH message awareness ie. if a "-F-" type error happens, can the console pkgF escalate this via email, pager ect? These filter pkgs are OS specific.  E Here are a few alternative products as well (in no particular order):i  1 http://www.robomon.com/product_detail_robocen.htme- http://www.tditx.com/tdicard/www/cwframe.htmlo  http://www.ki.com/products/clim/, http://www.globalmt.com/products/polycenter/K http://www.cai.com/products/commandit.htm (Console Manager replacement from5 CA)l   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant,
 Compaq Canada  Professional Serviceso Voice : 613-592-4660 FAX   : 819-772-7036 Email : kerry.main@compaq.comh       -----Original Message-----8 From: Stuart Symonds [mailto:Stuart.Symonds@t-online.de]$ Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 7:55 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come% Subject: Console Monitoring Software.o     Hi,x  K Today I learnt that a product called TNG Console Manager developed first by L Digital and now by Computer Associates is being dropped. TNG Console ManagerL is a fine product and from my understanding is in fairly wide spread use. CAJ have developed there own none VMS version that runs under NT but from whatL I've heard is only half as capable as the older product and twice the price!  K I have heard of one VMS based product called Console Works by TECSYS, is it  any good, and are there others?e   Please reply via Email.,   Thanks in advance.   Stuart.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 09:42:39 -0700  From: James.F.Duff@fhs.com1 Subject: De-crippling NT Only Digital Server 5305rC Message-ID: <OF20AE89D6.09418797-ON882568F7.0059B850@HEALTHNET.COM>o   All,  @ previously in the group there was some discussion of hacking the? nvram file on NT only alphaservers.  Fred Kleinsorge pulled thef magic number 2050 out, as in:s  
 >>> e -p 2050 + pmem:                 2050 FFFFFFFFFFFFFFEA5 >>> d -p 2050 16 >>> b)  = Unfortunately, this does not appear to make any difference on,! the 5305.  The bootstrap reports:.   jumping to bootstrap codeeA %SYSBOOT-F-FILENOTLOC, Unable to locate SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_EA05.EXE   @ I have hacked a system disk by copying SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_1605.EXE< to SYS$CPU_ROUTINES_EA05.EXE, which gets it past the SYSBOOT' error, but it immediately crashes with:l  9 Exception taken before exception handler has been loaded!x Unable to take crash dump!  0 Access control violation through vector 00000080   followed by a register dump.  ? Can anyone tell me how I can get this beast to run VMS, or am In% SOL?  (Yes, I know it's unsupported).t     Thanks,  Jim. -- James.F.Duff@healthnet.com Pure personal opinionR   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 08:10:19 -0400 * From: Ken Robinson <ksrobin@fpe.erenj.com>1 Subject: Determining the speed of Ethernet boards - Message-ID: <393E3BAB.9CE6C376@fpe.erenj.com>s  G I have inherited a number of VAX and Alpha machines running OpenVMS 6.2pF thru 7.1-1H2. Is there anyway of determining the speed of the ethernet: boards on each machine without shutting down the machines.   Thanks in advance. Ken Robinson ksrobin@erenj.coma   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 14:19:12 GMTq1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>e5 Subject: Re: Determining the speed of Ethernet boardss2 Message-ID: <393E59C0.3CFC62C7@clarityconnect.com>   $ MCR LANCPo' SHOW DEVICE ! find your ethernet devicec  SHOW DEVICE {e-net device}/CHARA EXIT   Ken Robinson wrote:e > I > I have inherited a number of VAX and Alpha machines running OpenVMS 6.2 H > thru 7.1-1H2. Is there anyway of determining the speed of the ethernet< > boards on each machine without shutting down the machines. >  > Thanks in advance. > Ken Robinson > ksrobin@erenj.coma   -- dD Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 10:20:22 -0400i* From: Ken Robinson <ksrobin@fpe.erenj.com>5 Subject: Re: Determining the speed of Ethernet boardsm- Message-ID: <393E5A26.F18827BB@fpe.erenj.com>r   "Mark D. Jilson" wrote:  > 
 > $ MCR LANCPs) > SHOW DEVICE ! find your ethernet devices" > SHOW DEVICE {e-net device}/CHARA > EXIT >   G Yes, I found that command. It works fine on Alpha boxes, but not on the0F VAX. Is there any way of determining whether the boards are switchable8 between 10 & 100 Mb, without shutting down the machines?   Ken Robinson   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 14:32:20 GMT.% From: Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com>t5 Subject: Re: Determining the speed of Ethernet boardsl) Message-ID: <8hlmdl$1d0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   - In article <393E3BAB.9CE6C376@fpe.erenj.com>,a   ksrobin@fpe.erenj.com wrote:E > I have inherited a number of VAX and Alpha machines running OpenVMSeC > 6.2 thru 7.1-1H2. Is there anyway of determining the speed of theeE > ethernet boards on each machine without shutting down the machines.o   $ mcr lancpn LANCP> show device /parameters   Device Parameters ESA0:y              Value  Parameter-              -----  --------- #             Normal  Controller mode<*           External  Internal loopback mode(  08-00-2B-xx-xx-xx  Hardware LAN address(            CSMA/CD  Communication medium+                 32  Minimum receive buffersl+                 32  Maximum receive bufferst&                 No  Full duplex enable+                 No  Full duplex operationale        Unspecified  Line media;                 10  Line speed (megabits/second)     <=====h LANCP>  C That's on a DEC3000-300 Alpha Workstation running OpenVMS V6.2-1H3,a? here is another example, a Digital Professional WS with V7.2-1:    Device Characteristics EWA0:'                   Value  Characteristic '                   -----  --------------t+                    1500  Device buffer sizeo(                  Normal  Controller mode/                External  Internal loopback modei-       00-00-F8-xx-xx-xx  Hardware LAN address /                          Multicast address listl-                 CSMA/CD  Communication mediumd,       FF-FF-FF-FF-FF-FF  Current LAN address0                      64  Minimum receive buffers0                     128  Maximum receive buffers+                      No  Full duplex enablee0                      No  Full duplex operational(             TwistedPair  Line media type*                      10  Line speed (mbps) LANCP>   --
 Uwe Zessin    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.i   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 16:16:57 +0100* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>5 Subject: Re: Determining the speed of Ethernet boardsY+ Message-ID: <8hlp1e$iva@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>e  _ "Ken Robinson" <ksrobin@fpe.erenj.com> wrote in message news:393E5A26.F18827BB@fpe.erenj.com...1  I > Yes, I found that command. It works fine on Alpha boxes, but not on thedH > VAX. Is there any way of determining whether the boards are switchable: > between 10 & 100 Mb, without shutting down the machines?  E There never was a standard 100Mb Ethernet controller on a VAX, AFAIK. F Roughly speaking, it was Ethernet or FDDI before PCI based Alphas came along.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 05:43:29 GMTa@ From: mlyczewsnokispa@partners-no-spam-tech.com (mark lyczewski)Y Subject: Re: DIFF /IGNORE=(SPACING) questiion - was sent before with wrongsubjectline, sor3 Message-ID: <393dddc4.3118230@news.sttl.uswest.net>   . Does the term 'fuck you' mean anything to you?* In the past I've posted problems here, and2 was thankfull for any insight someone has offered.3 I had a problem where my Alphastation quit booting, 1 and I was offered at least 4 different solutions, . all of which required me to change parameters,7 run sysgen and reboot. Quite a bit of a pain in the asseF process, and yet I was glad they were offered even though none worked.  B That aside I did run tests last night. It looks like a bug in the A diff command to me. I did get it to work after padding the end of A the records with spaces, so that both of the files had records of  the same size.    
 Happy now?        A On Mon, 05 Jun 2000 10:00:39 -0700, Jethro Bodine <Me@nospam.com>  wrote:  6 >In article <C22568F5.004BECA1.00@jklh21.valmet.com>, " >norm.raphael@jamesbury.com wrote: > = >> Thank you for your comments.  In future, however, it wouldI< >> behoove you to run a test before you post mere suspicion. >PH >"it would behoove you"? Norm, the guy was just trying to be helpful by A >offering a suggestion.  He clearly stated that all he had was a 1I >suspicion. Perhaps he did not have time to test anything?  What exactly sE >should he have tested?  Should he have used the test lines that you   >included in your post?U > I >I apologize to you if your choice of words did not deliver your intent.  G >However, you asked for a favor, someone responded.  Don't make anyone  J >afraid to try to answer a question.  He offered some useful information, $ >it just did not solve your problem. >  >1 >-J0   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 10:01:39 +02000= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>  Subject: Re: directory listing) Message-ID: <393E0163.C426D1D0@gtech.com>8   torlet@my-deja.com wrote:H > In fortran (sorry)  ? No need to apologize !  Many of us like Fortran and the Fortran - compilers from Digital (Compaq) are the best.E  G >                    i try to apply the same treatment on all the files G > of a directory. I am looking for a function to search a directory forX > all the files...  
 LIB$FIND_FILE0   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 12:21:41 -0500." From: Earl Lakia <lakia@ipact.com> Subject: Re: directory listing) Message-ID: <393E84A5.B2DE9FF4@ipact.com>   ; You can read the ".dir" file.  Try doing a dump/record of aMC directory file.   For example:   dump/record dua0:[000000]lakia.dirj  D Anyway, you can open the file for readonly shared and browse throughD it.  Also there are some lexical DCL functions.  There are also some> library routines thad might do what you need.  However, I know I did this in the past.a   -earlu   torlet@my-deja.com wrote:m   > Hello,G > In fortran (sorry) i try to apply the same treatment on all the fileshG > of a directory. I am looking for a function to search a directory fori > all the files...  > ..Can someone show me the way? >E( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.t   --
 Earl D. Lakiaj0 Senior Staff Engineer         Web: www.ipact.com4 Snail Mail:                   Email: lakia@ipact.com
 IPACT Inc.1 260 S. Campbell St.           Phone: 219-464-7212s Valparaiso, IN 46383   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 11:34:14 -0400s$ From: Kent Rankin <krankin@usit.net>7 Subject: FS: Digital TZZ87 7-tape DLT Autoloader ; $500t' Message-ID: <393E6B76.AB42C91@usit.net>y  2 	The unit is located in Knoxville, TN, 37922-3449.  B 	It is a 7-tape DLT III Autoloader, including drive, security key,? etc.  The unit uses Centronics connectors and is rackmountable.   / 	Please send any questions that you might have.N     					Thank you,  					Kent Rankin   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2000 13:28:17 GMTr8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)- Subject: Re: Hobbyist vms 7.2 alpha questionsc6 Message-ID: <8hlilh$jci$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>   Dan --   Need some more info, please...   Is the an Alpha or VAX system?= How you use the operating system CD depends on whether it is g OpenVMS Alpha or OpenVMS VAX.M  2 How did you try to install TCPIP (what command)?  + Exactly what was the message your received?u  = The POLYCENTER Software Installation (PCSI) utlity's naem fors$ DECnet Phase IV is  DECNET_PHASE_IV.  1 Please post the output from PRODUCT SHOW PRODUCT.u  B If possible, please get and read a copy of the OpenVMS Upgrade andB Installation Guide for version V7.2 for either Alpha or VAX.  This, will probably answer many of your questions.  B It is very likely that you can also benefit from reading the TCPIP documentation.    A In article <393D99D9.50D75BF9@vrx.net>, Dan <dan@vrx.net> writes:a? >I tried installing tcpip but the system said I already had UCX  >installed.i2 >I don't have a ucx$config anywhere on the system./ >I don't have tcp$config anywhere on the system 8 >I can't figure out the product name for decnet phase ivC >I can't do a product remove of ucx because it says it's not there.uI >I do a product show product * and it doesn't list ucx, decnet, or tcpip.g >DG >How can I use the 7.2 hobbyist CD to upgrade my VMS without wiping outa
 >all my data?n >e >Dan.  >a >l   -- gK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAuF          (hammond@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2000 13:39:54 GMTp2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)- Subject: Re: Hobbyist vms 7.2 alpha questionsi6 Message-ID: <8hljba$jqk$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  A In article <393D99D9.50D75BF9@vrx.net>, Dan <dan@vrx.net> writes:m? :I tried installing tcpip but the system said I already had UCXn :installed.a  2   You have OpenVMS V7.2 installed.  What platform?  E   I can likely guess at what happened here, but the inclusion of the  ?   exact error messages is often useful when posting a question.   C   What is visible in the output for PRODUCT SHOW PRODUCT, and what  @   does PRODUCT SHOW PRODUCT VMS/FULL display, and what is in theF   VMSINSTAL.HISTORY file?  (ie: what are the specifics of the current    software configuration?)  2 :I don't have a ucx$config anywhere on the system.  C   And you should not.  TCP/IP Services V5.0 (or later) is required vB   for OpenVMS V7.2 and later, and TCP/IP Services V5.0A (or later)5   is the prefered version for OpenVMS V7.1 and later.t  C   TCP/IP Services V4.x -- the versions with the UCX$ prefix -- can oC   NOT be installed on OpenVMS V7.2 and later.  Only V5.0 and later nA   -- the versions with the TCPIP$ prefix.  (Time to add this item.(   of trivia to the OpenVMS FAQ, too. :-)  / :I don't have tcp$config anywhere on the systemt  =   Ok, that makes sense -- if the kit did not install, then...d  8 :I can't figure out the product name for decnet phase iv  2   The DECnet Phase IV kit name is DECNET_PHASE_IV.  D   The current installation menus should have offered the upgrade forB   you, though versions circa V7.1 offered only DECnet-Plus.  LaterG   versions, such as V7.2-1, offer both DECnet-Plus and DECnet Phase IV.uG   To install DECnet Phase IV, see the OpenVMS FAQ section "MGMT14. How  +   do I install DECnet Phase IV on VMS 7.1?"s  C :I can't do a product remove of ucx because it says it's not there.o  1   Interesting.  The databases might be messed up.h  I :I do a product show product * and it doesn't list ucx, decnet, or tcpip.      It should not list UCX.d  G :How can I use the 7.2 hobbyist CD to upgrade my VMS without wiping out-
 :all my data?e  A   I will assume you have acquired and read the directions for the C   upgrade, particularly the need to bootstrap off the CD-ROM media.-B   If not, please start by reading the documentation.  If you have 9   questions on the upgrade procedure, please let us know.n  D   There is a PCSI ECO kit for various recent OpenVMS releases.  You D   will want to acquire and install it.  (See the FAQ for pointers to   the ECO kits.)  D   The OpenVMS FAQ is available via a link at www.openvms.compaq.com.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 13:55:24 GMTt From: Dan <dan@vrx.net>.- Subject: Re: Hobbyist vms 7.2 alpha questionsp' Message-ID: <393E53C1.6D367702@vrx.net>e   Ok let's clear some stuff up.38 I have an Alpha, a DEC 3000 model 300 more specifically.K It has vms 6.2 installed at present. this is NOT openvms 6.2 its AXPVMS 6.2tF I have the openvms hobbyist install manual that came with the CD (7.2), Here's some of the stuff you guys requested:   product show product vms/fulln  @ PRODUCT                        KIT TYPE   STATE      MAINTENANCE     REFERENCED BY.@ -------                        --------   -----      -----------     -------------w3 DEC AXPVMS VMS V6.2            OPER. SYS. AVAILABLEw     DEC AXPVMS FORRTL V7.1-1       DEC AXPVMS FORTRAN V7.1-1sB %PCSI-I-IOPPDB, additional information last updated 28-APR-2000 in
 DISK$AXPVMSSYo* S:[VMS$COMMON.][SYSUPD]VMSINSTAL.HISTORY;1   1 item found $ # $ type sys$update:vmsinstal.historyo  + VMSINSTAL Product Installation History File1  1 S = Success    F = Failure    NA = Not Applicablec  P --------------------------------------------------------------------------------  ( ----------------------------------------J Product Information                                         | Installation Infor  mationP ------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------  ( ----------------------------------------K Name                           | Mnemonic         | Version | Date        |s Stat us| IVP   | Node   | InstallerP ------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------  ( ----------------------------------------M                                | DWMOTIF_AXP      |  1.2    |  4-MAY-1994 | Fr   | NA    | E      | SYSTEMdM                                | DWMOTIF_AXP      |  1.2    |  4-MAY-1994 | Ft   | NA    | E      | SYSTEM-M                                | DWMOTIF_AXP      |  1.2    |  4-MAY-1994 | Sm   | NA    | E      | SYSTEMlM                                | OPEN3D           |  2.3    | 11-MAY-1994 | SA   | NA    |        | SYSTEMoM                                | FIIVA            |  6.1    | 11-MAY-1994 | Sl   | NA    |        | SYSTEMrM                                | SNATE            |  1.5    | 14-JUN-1994 | S    | S     | PSDI96 | SYSTEM5M                                | FORMSRTC         |  1.4    | 14-JUN-1994 | Si   | S     | PSDI96 | SYSTEMbM DEC DQS for OpenVMS AXP        | DQS              |  1.3    | 13-JUL-1994 | F    | S     | PSDI96 | SYSTEM0M DEC DQS for OpenVMS AXP        | DQS              |  1.3    | 18-JUL-1994 | SS   | S     | PSDI96 | SYSTEMcM                                | RSMCLN           |  2.4    | 20-JUL-1994 | So   | S     | PSDI96 | SYSTEMlM                                | DCPSAXPC         |  1.0    | 19-NOV-1994 | Sr   | F     | PCID12 | SYSTEMwM                                | DSLAXP           |  2.0    | 15-FEB-1995 | SS   | S     | PCID12 | SYSTEMwM                                | ACSAXP           |  2.0    | 15-FEB-1995 | Sp   | S     | PCID12 | SYSTEM-M                                | IDXAXP           |  2.0    | 15-FEB-1995 | Ss   | S     | PCID12 | SYSTEMuM                                | DSLAXP           |  2.0    | 28-JUN-1995 | S6   | S     | PCID12 | SYSTEMhM                                | ACSAXP           |  2.0    | 28-JUN-1995 | Ss   | S     | PCID12 | SYSTEMtM                                | IDXAXP           |  2.0    | 28-JUN-1995 | Si   | S     | PCID12 | SYSTEMeM                                | PASCAL           |  5.7    | 28-APR-2000 | S0   | S     | PCID12 | SYSTEMmM                                | BASIC            |  3.8    | 28-APR-2000 | Fe   | S     | PCID12 | SYSTEMg  @ $ product install tcpip /source=dka400:[kits.tcpip_alpha050_kit]  0 %PCSI-E-PDFFIL, the following errors are in file _$1$DKA400:[KITS.TCPIP_ALPHA050i& _KIT]DEC-AXPVMS-TCPIP-V0500-9-1.PCSI;1)     4   error TCPIP_NOT_SUPPORTED abort ;n! %PCSI-E-PDFMST, missing semicolona+     7   error UCX_ALREADY_INSTALLED abort ;t! %PCSI-E-PDFMST, missing semicolons# %PCSI-E-PDFUDV, undeclared variablen" %PCSI-E-S_OPFAIL, operation failedI %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, fatal error encountered - operation terminated $ productl remove decnet_plus  : %PCSIUI-I-NOMATCH, no products found matching: DECNET_PLUSF %PCSIUI-E-NOPROD, no products found on which to perform this operationI %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, fatal error encountered - operation terminated $ product2F install decnet_phase_iv /source=dka400:[kits.decnet_phase_iv_alpha072_ kit]    ( The following product has been selected: DEC AXPVMS DECNET_PHASE_IV V7.2      Do you want to continue? [YES]    4 *** DEC AXPVMS DECNET_PHASE_IV V7.2: DECNET_PHASE_IV  4     COPYRIGHT (c) 16-DEC-1998 -- All rights reserved  !     Digital Equipment Corporationl  A     Support addendum to DECnet Phase IV service contract requiredh  "     Do you want to continue? [YES]    + %PCSIUI-I-DONEASK, execution phase starting ( The following product will be installed: DEC AXPVMS DECNET_PHASE_IV V7.21  3 The OpenVMS Alpha operating system is not installedu  H       Before installing the OpenVMS Alpha version of DECnet Phase IV youB       must install or register the OpenVMS ALPHA operating system.  E Terminating is strongly recommended.  Do you want to terminate? [YES]d Portion Done: 0%/ %PCSI-E-S_OPCAN, operation cancelled by requesta? %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, fatal error encountered - operation terminatedh $      Charlie Hammond wrote:   > Dan -- >c  > Need some more info, please... >e  > Is the an Alpha or VAX system?> > How you use the operating system CD depends on whether it is > OpenVMS Alpha or OpenVMS VAX.< > 2 > How did you try to install TCPIP (what command)?- > Exactly what was the message your received?/ > ? > The POLYCENTER Software Installation (PCSI) utlity's naem forl& > DECnet Phase IV is  DECNET_PHASE_IV. >r3 > Please post the output from PRODUCT SHOW PRODUCT.  > D > If possible, please get and read a copy of the OpenVMS Upgrade andD > Installation Guide for version V7.2 for either Alpha or VAX.  This. > will probably answer many of your questions. >MD > It is very likely that you can also benefit from reading the TCPIP > documentation. >aC > In article <393D99D9.50D75BF9@vrx.net>, Dan <dan@vrx.net> writes: A > >I tried installing tcpip but the system said I already had UCXu
 > >installed. 4 > >I don't have a ucx$config anywhere on the system.1 > >I don't have tcp$config anywhere on the system-: > >I can't figure out the product name for decnet phase ivE > >I can't do a product remove of ucx because it says it's not there. K > >I do a product show product * and it doesn't list ucx, decnet, or tcpip.c > >bI > >How can I use the 7.2 hobbyist CD to upgrade my VMS without wiping out  > >all my data?x > >l > >Dan.  > >  > >  >N > --M >     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USA H >          (hammond@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)L >       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2000 15:03:07 GMTd8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)- Subject: Re: Hobbyist vms 7.2 alpha questionsl6 Message-ID: <8hlo7b$lnu$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  A In article <393E53C1.6D367702@vrx.net>, Dan <dan@vrx.net> writes:d >Ok let's clear some stuff up.   You did!  3 I think you need/want to upgrade to OpenVMS V7.2.  g  K There is an issue of the product and kit names that the POLYCENTER SoftwarenI Installation (PCSI) utility uses.  AXPVMS is the platform name for ALPHA, G VMS is the name for the OpenVMS operating system.  The name OVMS, whichAG you will also see, is the name of the OpenVMS platform -- the platform  G includes the OpenVMS operating system and options for DECwindows MOTIF, 1 DECnet Plus, DECnet Phase IV and TCP/IP services.s  A What you need to do is boot the CD.  Shutdown the system, put thed3 OpenVMS V7.2 operating system CD in dka400 and bootf       >>> b dka400  < This cause OpenVMS to boot with the CD as the "system disk". It presents you with a menu.    A Feel free to use the help ("?") facility at the menu for further   explainations of each option.e  < You probably want to select the option to install or upgradeA OpenVMS.  Then answer the questions you will be asked.  This willaC upgrade OpenVMS and DECnet.  If TCPIP is not installed, the easiestaE thing to do is to install it as a second step from the Install Layerda Products option on the menu.    I Once again, it _will_ help if you get and read the documentation first.  h( (I appologize for repeating that again.)   --  K     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAtF          (hammond@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2000 18:04:15 +0200u* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)- Subject: Re: Hobbyist vms 7.2 alpha questionsf( Message-ID: <393e727f@news.kapsch.co.at>  A In article <393E53C1.6D367702@vrx.net>, Dan <dan@vrx.net> writes:t >Ok let's clear some stuff up.9 >I have an Alpha, a DEC 3000 model 300 more specifically.tL >It has vms 6.2 installed at present. this is NOT openvms 6.2 its AXPVMS 6.2  4 Bingo. One more frustrated and disoriented customer.  
 VMS = OpenVMSo VAX/VMS = OpenVMS VAXk$ OpenVMS Alpha = OpenVMS AXP = AXPVMS  G >I have the openvms hobbyist install manual that came with the CD (7.2)u  & Better go with V7.2-1 instead of V7.2.K This may sound rude, as the hobbyist CD was probably hard to get and costed8H you money, but better discard it and go to V7.2-1 (available somewhere).  - >Here's some of the stuff you guys requested:  >l >product show product vms/full >nA >PRODUCT                        KIT TYPE   STATE      MAINTENANCE  >    REFERENCED BYA >-------                        --------   -----      -----------t >    -------------4 >DEC AXPVMS VMS V6.2            OPER. SYS. AVAILABLE >    DEC AXPVMS FORRTL V7.1-1i >t >    DEC AXPVMS FORTRAN V7.1-1C >%PCSI-I-IOPPDB, additional information last updated 28-APR-2000 in, >DISK$AXPVMSSY+ >S:[VMS$COMMON.][SYSUPD]VMSINSTAL.HISTORY;1o >  >1 item found $ o  K So, you haven't got VMS V7, you run OpenVMS Alpha V6.2 (as you wrote above)rD First, upgrade to VMS V7 or do a fresh/new install of OpenVMS Alpha,F then, upgrade or install the layered products required on VMS V7.2[-1]  $ >$ type sys$update:vmsinstal.history > , >VMSINSTAL Product Installation History File >e2 >S = Success    F = Failure    NA = Not Applicable > Q >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------o >m) >---------------------------------------- K >Product Information                                         | Installationr >Infor >mationaQ >------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------e >v) >----------------------------------------yL >Name                           | Mnemonic         | Version | Date        | >Stati >us| IVP   | Node   | InstallerlQ >------------------------------------------------------------|-------------------p >i) >-----------------------------------------N >                               | DWMOTIF_AXP      |  1.2    |  4-MAY-1994 | F >  | NA    | E      | SYSTEMN >                               | DWMOTIF_AXP      |  1.2    |  4-MAY-1994 | F >  | NA    | E      | SYSTEMN >                               | DWMOTIF_AXP      |  1.2    |  4-MAY-1994 | S >  | NA    | E      | SYSTEMN >                               | OPEN3D           |  2.3    | 11-MAY-1994 | S >  | NA    |        | SYSTEMN >                               | FIIVA            |  6.1    | 11-MAY-1994 | S >  | NA    |        | SYSTEMN >                               | SNATE            |  1.5    | 14-JUN-1994 | S >  | S     | PSDI96 | SYSTEMN >                               | FORMSRTC         |  1.4    | 14-JUN-1994 | S >  | S     | PSDI96 | SYSTEMN >DEC DQS for OpenVMS AXP        | DQS              |  1.3    | 13-JUL-1994 | F >  | S     | PSDI96 | SYSTEMN >DEC DQS for OpenVMS AXP        | DQS              |  1.3    | 18-JUL-1994 | S >  | S     | PSDI96 | SYSTEMN >                               | RSMCLN           |  2.4    | 20-JUL-1994 | S >  | S     | PSDI96 | SYSTEMN >                               | DCPSAXPC         |  1.0    | 19-NOV-1994 | S >  | F     | PCID12 | SYSTEMN >                               | DSLAXP           |  2.0    | 15-FEB-1995 | S >  | S     | PCID12 | SYSTEMN >                               | ACSAXP           |  2.0    | 15-FEB-1995 | S >  | S     | PCID12 | SYSTEMN >                               | IDXAXP           |  2.0    | 15-FEB-1995 | S >  | S     | PCID12 | SYSTEMN >                               | DSLAXP           |  2.0    | 28-JUN-1995 | S >  | S     | PCID12 | SYSTEMN >                               | ACSAXP           |  2.0    | 28-JUN-1995 | S >  | S     | PCID12 | SYSTEMN >                               | IDXAXP           |  2.0    | 28-JUN-1995 | S >  | S     | PCID12 | SYSTEMN >                               | PASCAL           |  5.7    | 28-APR-2000 | S >  | S     | PCID12 | SYSTEMN >                               | BASIC            |  3.8    | 28-APR-2000 | F >  | S     | PCID12 | SYSTEM  L You need a lot of products upgraded, before you can run them on VMS V7[.2-1]A You need to upgrade them during (=shortly after) the VMS upgrade.   H Better check the OpenVMS Software Public Rollout Reports for the current1 versions of the layered products produced by DEQ.i  < 	http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvms/os/swroll/index.html  A >$ product install tcpip /source=dka400:[kits.tcpip_alpha050_kit]I >i1 >%PCSI-E-PDFFIL, the following errors are in filea  >_$1$DKA400:[KITS.TCPIP_ALPHA050' >_KIT]DEC-AXPVMS-TCPIP-V0500-9-1.PCSI;1   H This is TCPIP V5.0. Better forget it. Use V5.0A (with an patch) instead.  7 The kit is named DEC-AXPVMS-TCPIP-V0500-11-1.PCSI then.n  * >    4   error TCPIP_NOT_SUPPORTED abort ;" >%PCSI-E-PDFMST, missing semicolon, >    7   error UCX_ALREADY_INSTALLED abort ;" >%PCSI-E-PDFMST, missing semicolon$ >%PCSI-E-PDFUDV, undeclared variable# >%PCSI-E-S_OPFAIL, operation failed)A >%PCSIUI-E-ABORT, fatal error encountered - operation terminated    8 TCPIP V5 is not supported on V6.2. You can't install it.H It seems, that the TCPIP PCSI definition file is wrong or only the error message is misleading.   >$ product remove decnet_plus/ >S; >%PCSIUI-I-NOMATCH, no products found matching: DECNET_PLUS G >%PCSIUI-E-NOPROD, no products found on which to perform this operationtJ >%PCSIUI-E-ABORT, fatal error encountered - operation terminated $ productG >install decnet_phase_iv /source=dka400:[kits.decnet_phase_iv_alpha072_s >kit]  >k >h) >The following product has been selected:l  >DEC AXPVMS DECNET_PHASE_IV V7.2 >  >d >Do you want to continue? [YES]  >  >n5 >*** DEC AXPVMS DECNET_PHASE_IV V7.2: DECNET_PHASE_IVn >n5 >    COPYRIGHT (c) 16-DEC-1998 -- All rights reserved  >," >    Digital Equipment Corporation >yB >    Support addendum to DECnet Phase IV service contract required >s# >    Do you want to continue? [YES]D >e >h, >%PCSIUI-I-DONEASK, execution phase starting) >The following product will be installed:   >DEC AXPVMS DECNET_PHASE_IV V7.2 >e4 >The OpenVMS Alpha operating system is not installed >.I >      Before installing the OpenVMS Alpha version of DECnet Phase IV youiC >      must install or register the OpenVMS ALPHA operating system.  >HF >Terminating is strongly recommended.  Do you want to terminate? [YES] >Portion Done: 0% 0 >%PCSI-E-S_OPCAN, operation cancelled by request@ >%PCSIUI-E-ABORT, fatal error encountered - operation terminated  F Of course. DECNET_PHASE_IV V7.2 will also not install on OpenVMS V6.2.F It only runs on VMS V7.2. (DECnet version numbers are identical to the version numbers of OpenVMS)...  C Better start with the VMS documentation (especially the Upgrade andsB Installation Manual and the System Manager's Manual) available at:  % 	http://www.openvms.digital.com:8000/o   -- c< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888p< FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netF <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2000 17:49:16 GMTa8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)- Subject: Re: Hobbyist vms 7.2 alpha questionsw6 Message-ID: <8hm1us$pk1$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  ) In article <393e727f@news.kapsch.co.at>, R, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes: ..' >Better go with V7.2-1 instead of V7.2.   B Yes, V7.2-1 is preferable to V7.2, but I ran my worstation at V7.2B for some time with no problems.  (PRODUCT SHOW HISTORY says it ran! from 17-FEB-1999 to 05-Jan-2000.)X  L >So, you haven't got VMS V7, you run OpenVMS Alpha V6.2 (as you wrote above)I >First, upgrade to VMS V7 or do a fresh/new install of OpenVMS Alpha, ...t  C Is there a reason for this advice?  The V7.2 manual says you can go ; directly from V6.2, and I know of no reason why you cannot.A   -- AK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USA-F          (hammond@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 10:08:00 +0100* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>* Subject: Re: Java graphing applets for VMS, Message-ID: <8hl3dg$12aa@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  @ "George Cornelius" <cornelius@eisner.decus.org> wrote in message% news:KIsKUcG2L7BZ@eisner.decus.org...-  A > If there are graphical differences between a Windows and a Unix B > environment, I would expect the Unix one, being X11 based, would6 > be roughly the same as a VMS DECWindows environment.  4 Yes, the AWT stuff has the Motif l&f. Swing less so.  B > All of this is speculation, but in theory that is supposed to be > the way it works.4  D It actually works rather well: I set my PC IDE to pack everything up: into a single JAR file, copy it to VMS and go. Never had a compatibility problem.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 07:44:36 -0400  From: jlahman@LTVSteel.com* Subject: Re: Java graphing applets for VMS8 Message-ID: <852568F7.004093A1.00@notesnta.LTVSteel.com>  P I guess I should be mores specific.  We tried to order the graphing java appletsN from KL Group.  However, they would not sell them to us because they only shipO their applets for either NT/2000 or Unix.  Even though Java is supposedly write O one, run anywhere, don't I need VMS media to load them on our VMS server?  If ISO buy a Java applet for Unix and I don't have a Unix box (only a VMS server), howJF do I load these applets on VMS?  The same is true for NT java applets.            6 Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> on 06/06/2000 02:40:13 PM   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com ! cc:    (bcc: Jim Lahman/CLWK/LTV)2+ Subject:  Re: Java graphing applets for VMS|      5 At 01:56 PM 6/6/00 -0400, jlahman@LTVSteel.com wrote:   J >We want to present production data to the end users in a graphical formatH >via a browser.  There are graphical java applets available for Unix and	 >Windoze.E= >However, I have not seen any graphical java applets for VMS.   I You're running the applets in a browser on a PC. It doesn't *matter* what 1 OS the machine running the webserver's running...                             Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"------------------- 2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and even ;                                       teddy bears get drunk    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 08:01:40 -0400r From: jlahman@LTVSteel.com* Subject: Re: Java graphing applets for VMS8 Message-ID: <852568F7.00422380.00@notesnta.LTVSteel.com>  L The other is issue is X/MOTIF on VMS.  Compaq/Digital stopped development ofO X/MOTIF at version 1.5.  However, v2.x is available for all UNIX platforms.  IfDP the Java graphing applets for Unix make use of X/MOTIF v2.x., then these applets will not run on VMS.  A Hoff, why did Compaq/Digital stop development of X/MOTIF at v1.5?-            G cornelius@eisner.decus.org (George Cornelius) on 06/06/2000 05:54:53 PMs   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComP! cc:    (bcc: Jim Lahman/CLWK/LTV)n+ Subject:  Re: Java graphing applets for VMSB      M In article <852568F6.0062A658.00@notesnta.LTVSteel.com>, jlahman@LTVSteel.comi writes:=	 > Hi all:s >cO > We want to present production data to the end users in a graphical format viaX aSL > browser.  There are graphical java applets available for Unix and Windoze.> > However, I have not seen any graphical java applets for VMS. >1N > Has anybody ported any of these graphical java appliets to VMS? or are there anyd+ > graphical java applets available for VMS?e  ? I thought the whole point of Java was that it could be platforme> independent.  As long as an applet did not rely on any special= features of its environment one would think it would run justn< as well under OpenVMS Alpha, and would do so without so much as a recompile.   ? If there are graphical differences between a Windows and a UnixA@ environment, I would expect the Unix one, being X11 based, would4 be roughly the same as a VMS DECWindows environment.  @ All of this is speculation, but in theory that is supposed to be the way it works.-   --8 George Cornelius              cornelius@eisner.decus.org0                               cornelius@mayo.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 08:18:14 -0400 " From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org>* Subject: Re: Java graphing applets for VMS: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000607080315.01ccc6d0@24.8.96.48>  5 At 07:44 AM 6/7/00 -0400, jlahman@LTVSteel.com wrote:nJ >I guess I should be mores specific.  We tried to order the graphing java I >applets from KL Group.  However, they would not sell them to us because  L >they only ship their applets for either NT/2000 or Unix.  Even though Java L >is supposedly write one, run anywhere, don't I need VMS media to load them H >on our VMS server?  If I buy a Java applet for Unix and I don't have a H >Unix box (only a VMS server), how do I load these applets on VMS?  The " >same is true for NT java applets.  H Do these java programs actually run on the host, or are they really and D truly applets? If they're applets, just stick the things where your L webserver can get them, either via FTP or by mounting up a CD or something. I (VMS can read most ISO format CDs, so you're probably just fine with one sI for a Unix system) Applets run in a browser on the client's system so it n/ doesn't matter what OS the webserver's running.b  L If they aren't actually applets and really run on the host, then you may or L may not be out of luck. Probably not--get a demo CD from the vendor and see  what you can do.  7 >Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> on 06/06/2000 02:40:13 PM" >t >To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" >cc:    (bcc: Jim Lahman/CLWK/LTV), >Subject:  Re: Java graphing applets for VMS >- >- >-6 >At 01:56 PM 6/6/00 -0400, jlahman@LTVSteel.com wrote: >eL > >We want to present production data to the end users in a graphical formatJ > >via a browser.  There are graphical java applets available for Unix and > >Windoze.3? > >However, I have not seen any graphical java applets for VMS.s >fJ >You're running the applets in a browser on a PC. It doesn't *matter* what2 >OS the machine running the webserver's running... >  >                          Dan >(J >--------------------------------------"it's like this"-------------------3 >Dan Sugalski                          even samuraih@ >dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and even= >                                       teddy bears get drunk      					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"------------------- 2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and even ;                                       teddy bears get drunks   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 13:26:58 +0100* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>* Subject: Re: Java graphing applets for VMS+ Message-ID: <8hlf2j$r3u@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>e  Z <jlahman@LTVSteel.com> wrote in message news:852568F7.00422380.00@notesnta.LTVSteel.com...N > The other is issue is X/MOTIF on VMS.  Compaq/Digital stopped development ofQ > X/MOTIF at version 1.5.  However, v2.x is available for all UNIX platforms.  If R > the Java graphing applets for Unix make use of X/MOTIF v2.x., then these applets > will not run on VMS.  P It's not an issue if the applets are pure Java. It's a problem for those porting the JDK/JRE, not yours.b   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 08:34:05 -0400a From: jlahman@LTVSteel.com* Subject: Re: Java graphing applets for VMS8 Message-ID: <852568F7.004541A7.00@notesnta.LTVSteel.com>  M I looked at a few websites (KL Group and net charts) that offer java graphingsM applets.  KL Group requires enterprise java beans and net charts require java L beans.  Both sites list supported platforms.  Of course, VMS is not on their list of supported platforms.  % Is java beans part of the Java 2 kit?p   ------------------------------  " Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 15:01:31 GMT, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)* Subject: Re: Java graphing applets for VMS+ Message-ID: <EII7lh5Cj1oB@eisner.decus.org>o  U In article <852568F7.004093A1.00@notesnta.LTVSteel.com>, jlahman@LTVSteel.com writes:.R > I guess I should be mores specific.  We tried to order the graphing java appletsP > from KL Group.  However, they would not sell them to us because they only shipQ > their applets for either NT/2000 or Unix.  Even though Java is supposedly writeOQ > one, run anywhere, don't I need VMS media to load them on our VMS server?  If I Q > buy a Java applet for Unix and I don't have a Unix box (only a VMS server), how-H > do I load these applets on VMS?  The same is true for NT java applets. >   F Does that applet acutally have OS specific implementation details?  IfE not, then you just do one of the following (it's not clear which yourM# asking about, I've done all three):   I  store that applet on your existing web server with its HTML and view it (G  using Netscape under VMS on your Alpha (not on a VAX, that's not Java o	  enabled)l  I  load it and its HTML on your VMS system where your VMS based web server  G  can serve it and view it using your favorite Java enabled web browser o  on your favorite platform  K  load it and its HTML in your Alpha VMS system and view it as a local file -  using Netscape on that system -  F There are tar readers and such so that you can read typical UNIX mediaD formats on your VMS system.  The FAQ will point you to places to get these readers.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = Hubble Space Telescope Payload  | Federal Sector, Civil Group E  Flight Software Team           | please remove ".aspm" when replying-   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 10:03:33 +0200-= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>  Subject: Re: Logging On As Root ) Message-ID: <393E01D4.D8BA3DEF@gtech.com>M   Horse Nuts wrote: D > Ok, being a Compaq UNIX dude, how the hell do you logon as root in2 > VMS?????? Also, how do I move to the root dir???  ? The VMS equivalent of the root user on Unix is the SYSTEM user.    To move to the root dir use:   $ SET DEFAULT diskname:[000000]   F but note that each disk on VMS unlike on Unix has an independent root.   To see the available disks try;    $ SHOW DEVICE DS   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 07:38:37 -0400|, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Logging On As Root > Message-ID: <hshubs-73F2FC.07383707062000@news.mindspring.com>  6 In article <393E01D4.D8BA3DEF@gtech.com>, Arne Vajhoj  <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote:U  @ >The VMS equivalent of the root user on Unix is the SYSTEM user.  F In one sense, yes.  OTOH, the UNIX "root" account is the account with G the privs, so to do something similar, all you need to do is to use an 2G account with privs.  The SYSTEM account is the basic one of those, but  5 you can assign various, or all, privs to any account.|   -- | Howard S Shubs, the Denim Adept    ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2000 19:00:18 +0100SO From: pmoreau@dev.ath.cena.fr (Patrick MOREAU, CENA Athis, Tel: 01.69.57.64.40) ! Subject: Re: MMOV 2.2 and VMS 7.1P  Message-ID: <lRQ9vqrQqRH+@sable>  7 In article <8hjhaa$m0l$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, S4 hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: [...] F >   I would strongly encourage an upgrade to (at least) OpenVMS Alpha G >   V7.1-2 for any system currently running V7.1, V7.1-1H1 or V7.1-1H2.-G >   PCSI is used for all ECO and update operations starting in V7.1-2,  E >   and we also collected up a large variety of ECOs and rolled them  F >   all into V7.1-2, and we have subsequently made various UPDATE kitsE >   available for V7.1-2.  All of which make the use of OpenVMS Alpha $ >   V7.1-2 preferable over V7.1-1H1. [...]0  : OK, I'll try to find some spare time to make the upgrade.   s2 >   Bottom line: are you feeling lucky today?  :-)  
 Yes, fine :-)d   Patrick  -- hO ===============================================================================tO pmoreau@cena.dgac.fr  (CENA)     ______      ___   _           (Patrick MOREAU)h4 moreau_p@decus.fr (DECUS)       / /   /     / /|  /|J CENA/Athis-Mons FRANCE         / /___/     / / | / |   __   __   __   __  N BP 205                        / /         / /  |/  |  |  | |__| |__  |__| |  |N 94542 ORLY AEROGARE CEDEX    / /   ::    / /       |  |__| | \  |__  |  | |__|N http://www.ath.cena.fr/~pmoreau/            http://www.multimania.com/pmoreau/O ===============================================================================E   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2000 09:46:47 -0500t. From: rjordan@Mercury.mcs.net (Richard Jordan)% Subject: Re: OpenVMS AND THE INTERNETS+ Message-ID: <8hln8n$1t7g$1@Mercury.mcs.net>   > > More on the book OpenVMS AND THE INTERNET and Digital Press: >uN > This title was under contract at Digital Press. It was cancelled sometime inK > late 1998 or 1999, by mutual agreement--as I remember, it was actually at L > the author's suggestion. He felt that the OpenVMS products and initiativesK > he'd planned to discuss were not going to be developed after all, or were%N > being taken in other directions, and that he wouldn't be able to produce the" > book he had originally proposed. >.  H Depending on what happened, thats a Compaq issue, not DP.  Who knows howG much the 'internet support' for VMS has been jostled around since the QtI took over.  I do know a couple of things that were promised in 1997 endedn* up not happening (specifically for VAXen).   >sM > It takes a while to get the book pulled from Amazon, B&N, etc. once it's inoB > their systems--Sorry if there was poor communication about that.  F Amazon still lists it as purchasable on a pre-order basis, despite theF fact that they informed me it was canceled some months ago.  Maybe has: something to do with those new HP systems they're using :)   > N > Do you feel there's a market for a book on OpenVMS and apache, or some other > OpenVMS and Internet topics? >nE Yes.  I would prefer a book with coverage of both Apache and OSU (and D WASD?  Does it have enough usage to be worth covering?)  However, ifE VMS Apache is different enough that the available unix books would beeE of little value, then an apache specific book would be nice.  But I'd F like coverage of more aspects of internet access and service than justE web service.  I'd love to see a book that covers all aspects of usingsE VMS systems on the internet, both client and server sides, including iH security aspects.  Providing access to VMS data to RFC compliant clientsJ (not wintel proprietary architectures), whether web/http or other methods.B Applying/enforcing VMS security on such services (as applicable), G using clustering to its best advantage in internet servicing, etc...   t  I To be frank, the above (less Apache, which was not announced at the time)1D was what I was hoping the original OpenVMS and the Internet book was going to be about. c  M > Digital Press aims to serve the OpenVMS market, so we're eager to know what-# > kinds of books you'd like to see.  >aF > Please don't hesitate to contact us if there's a book you want us to
 > publish. >.
 > Pam Chestern > Associate Editor > Digital Press0 > 225 Wildwood Avenue  > Woburn, MA  01801n > 781-904-2603 > pam.chester@bhusa.come  2 Pam, thanks very much for taking the time to post.   Rich Jordan  rjordan@mcs.nets   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 11:46:47 +0100   From: steven.reece@quintiles.comJ Subject: Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire)> Message-ID: <802568F7.003B4CDB.00@qedilc01.qedi.quintiles.com>  P Whilst there are some individuals that agree with your view on this Mark (myselfO included I have to say), the view by the Compaq Solutions Centre (formerly CSC,w@ formerly MCS) in the UK is that you can have two levels of PVS :  P - PVS with Sustaining Engineering Support, in which problems can be escalated to Engineering if the need arises;y  J - PVS without Sustaining Engineering Support in which problems will not beO escalated and you're more than likely to get the answer "yeah, we know that's amO problem.  It's fixed in the next version.  You should really upgrade now to fixS8 this" as I've had before on a problem with UCX and DCPS.  I On Alpha, v7.1-2 comes into the PVS with sustaining engineering support IiN believe (well, this week anyway) whereas the UK seem to be trying to get roundE to supporting 7.1, 7.1-1H1 and 7.1-1H2 through PVS without SustainingwN Engineering Support.  I've yet to see anything written down to confirm this soE not only is this my slant on what I see, it's also subject to change.u   Steve.   Mark Jilson wrote:H >>>I guess I'm confused by what you call 'normal support'.  To me normalF support includes being able to elevate an issue to an engineering teamD to get a fix for the issue.  PVS allows that on old version.  If youG haven't purchased PVS then you  may not ask for an issue to be elevatedjE to an engineering team, doesn't mean the CSC won't talk to you if you0E have still purchased a CSC support contract for remedial and advisoryeF services.  If a version doesn't have a PVS option then you cannot evenG purchase the ability to ask that an issue be elevated to an engineering/D team but you may still purchase a CSC support contract.  I routinelyG handle VMS calls for V4.n and even some V3.n.  This is what is known asaE BE or Best Effort.  We see what we can do via our knowledge bases butJH the CSC won't spend a lot of time on an issue.  I know of no VMS supportH center within Compaq that will refuse a VMS call for a BE version of VMS4 if the customer has a valid CSC support contract.<<<   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 12:10:28 +0100/- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>aJ Subject: Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire)) Message-ID: <393E2DA4.90854F72@bbc.co.uk>    "Mark D. Jilson" wrote:n  G > I guess I'm confused by what you call 'normal support'.  To me normaloH > support includes being able to elevate an issue to an engineering teamF > to get a fix for the issue.  PVS allows that on old version.  If youI > haven't purchased PVS then you  may not ask for an issue to be elevated-G > to an engineering team, doesn't mean the CSC won't talk to you if youhG > have still purchased a CSC support contract for remedial and advisory H > services.  If a version doesn't have a PVS option then you cannot evenI > purchase the ability to ask that an issue be elevated to an engineering F > team but you may still purchase a CSC support contract.  I routinelyI > handle VMS calls for V4.n and even some V3.n.  This is what is known asaG > BE or Best Effort.  We see what we can do via our knowledge bases butiJ > the CSC won't spend a lot of time on an issue.  I know of no VMS supportJ > center within Compaq that will refuse a VMS call for a BE version of VMS3 > if the customer has a valid CSC support contract.a   Mark  > Sure, thats the way I understand it, just expressed better:-).H I think I just slightly misinterpreted Steve's first post in the thread.   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukw  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC..   ------------------------------  " Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 14:38:07 GMT* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)J Subject: Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire)+ Message-ID: <yYoH3e2ptHXB@eisner.decus.org>a  R In article <8hk5sg$29i$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes:  @ >> I understand your frustration but no offense intended but youA >> live in a very small world.  According to Shannon (if I recallsC >> correctly) , 90% of VMS nodes out there are in clusters.  Again,aC >> I may be misremembering that figure but gotta take a chance.  Ifa@ >> so, we can expect that most of the storage those clusters are@ >> accessing is/are via controllers (HSJ, HSZ , etc.. know whereC >> I'm going with this).  So turn on write back caching at the unith> >> level and if you are worried about data integrity make sure; >> you shadow across separate controllers in separate cabs.o > M > "If you are worried about data integrity"?  Well, if you have no redundancyrN > in your storage (no shadowing/mirroring, RAID-5, etc.), I guess you can justH > choose to consider a write-back cache failure to be a disk failure andF > restore from backups.  But if you think availability of your data isJ > sufficiently valuable to configure in any storage redundancy, you'd damnA > well better not use write-back caching without making it stable " > (battery-backed) *and* mirrored. > N > So for installations of the calibre you're suggesting above, I'd suggest youM > remove the phrase 'if you are worried about data integrity' and just asserthJ > that the extra (mirrored battery-backed memory) hardware overhead is theF > price you pay for getting competitive performance out of VMS without > massaging its defaults.  > J > Though not quite equal performance, since writes to the write-back cacheF > (and reads from the controller cache, for that matter) take around aM > millisecond (your own observation, IIRC) vs. well under 100 microseconds toiN > the Unix system cache:  you'll cut your default-settings performance penaltyM > from 10-to-1 or worse down to maybe around 2:1 (at least for writes; if youlI > can use VIOC for reads, they may be closer to equal), which changes theu3 > perception from 'damn slow' to merely 'sluggish'.e >  	t< 	Good observation... but the Unix trick to its own cache forA 	a write-back cache isn't very reassuring if the box takes a hit.m@ 	The example I wrote about and am using and have used on several@ 	different occasions, the write occurs to cache in two separate ; 	controllers, hardly an issue of stability or lack thereof.r  M > Put as good a face as you can on it, it doesn't make VMS look great in this  > area.  >   @ 	Depends on how you measure it.  End user response is fantastic. 	What are you measuring?   >>C >> Linux is great and Linux is fast, yada yada.   But Linux doesn'tnA >> have 4 or 5 nodes in a shared disk cluster.  Shared disk?  Who  >> needs shared disk.... > 5 > Good question:  most installations don't, at all.     D 	Last 3 VMS sites I have been involved in have.  How do you quantify= 	or measure most VMS installations?  Last I checked, this was + 	comp.os.vms and I didnt' see a cross-post.    > While shared-disk-E > configurations are the *only* way to address some (extreme) scalingaG > situations well, those situations aren't that common.  Lacking such a M > scaling problem, if you can successfully partition your data such that it's I > usually local to the node that needs it (the common case, especially innM > read-mostly web-server environments), your performance will often be betterJJ > than in a shared-disk cluster where you *haven't* paid attention to suchI > partitioning, because in the latter case the nodes will be caching dataaL > redundantly (using up memory they could be using more effectively in otherN > ways) and fighting each other over the occasional need to update it (and XFCA > won't eliminate these problems, though it may ameliorate them).s >   C 	Good solution.  You introduced partitioning of data as a solution.aE 	Unfortunately, the databases I am working with aren't partitionable. B 	What do you propose then?   Also, with partitioning of data , you< 	better make real sure you have someone that knows what they= 	are doing or that is a whole other pain.  Friend tells me a FF 	of an installation where one DBA does that as a living.  PartitioningB 	Unix databases to make them usable.  Must be nice work if you can 	get it.   >> >> And on and on we go...s >  > Until you understand it. >   
 	Please...  D 	My experience of VMS clusters and how they are being used tells me > 	they work.  Very busy VMS clusters at that.  So what don't I 6 	understand?  That Linux is great?  I understand that.   				Robi   Yeee HAAAAAA!!!!!o   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 15:33:21 GMTj: From: brad.mccusker@compaq.remove_this.com (Brad McCusker)3 Subject: Re: OpenVMS vs Tru64 Pathworks performance 0 Message-ID: <393e67fe.171560871@news.compaq.com>   >rQ >I understand what you're saying David, but I'm under the impression that the T64uO >stuff came from VMS Pathworks, which means the problem was there before seeingh  @ PATHWORKS is a port of AT&Ts Advanced Server for Unix.  The AT&TA Advanced Server for Unix is a port of WindowsNT4.0 File and Print 	 services.d  B This is a real interesting string on the performance of PATHWORKS.F I'm not a file systems person, so, I'm not going to comment on some ofE the speculation, although, I'm going to try to get some comments form  others around me.f  D With repsect to the performance of PATHORKS, I'll say here what I've2 been saying to some of my recent DECUS sessions.    ) 1. We know there is room for improvement.   B 2. We have a team doing nothing but performance work at this time.  B 3. First pieces of the performance work is to actually restore andC enhance the tools we've had since V5 to help us monitor the system.bF Can't fix the problem if we don't know what it is.  Look for a new and= improved PWMON coming to an Advanced Server for OpenVMS near  	 you soon.t  . 4. Oplocks are coming in Advanced Server V7.4.  ? 5. A new data cache is in the works.  Initial performance testsw8 indicate substantial improvements (2 to 4 times faster).  E 6. Said new data cache will also be multi-process so we can do thingseC like bring back the daemon (or some seperate process for NETLogon),T. and eventually, have multiple LMSRV processes.  F I apologize for being somewhat absent in these groups lately, but haveF no fear, we are still alive and kicking here.  I've been quiet becuase# I've been on the road way too much.j   Brad      M >any improvement on Unix.  But it's more than that. This stuff (Pathworks) isFP >real slow on reads, and VMS doesn't read disks all that slowly.  It's either inP >the networking, and earlier versions of Pathworks used DECnet which isn't slow,Q >or in the product, which is VERY slow.  No, I still strongly believe that it's a ? >bad implementation.  In my opinion VMS isn't the culprit here.h >s >DaveS >l >-- 5 >David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450d5 >Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596-< >170 Grimplin Road               E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com >Vanderbilt, PA  15486   Regards,  
 Brad McCuskerR/ OpenVMS Advanced Server Engineering (PATHWORKS)C Compaq Computer Corporationn  3 All comments contained herein are my own and do note* reflect those of anyone or anything else.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 08:34:39 -0400e" From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org>P Subject: Re: OpenVMS, SMTP, and email spam (was Re: I'm Trying to ModelSomething: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000607082115.01cdb100@24.8.96.48>  - At 10:25 PM 6/6/00 +0000, Hoff Hoffman wrote:n  K >In article <8hjq10$l13$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>, system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu p >writes:L >:You need to take into account P, the total number of possible relay sites,' >:i.e the number of sites running smtp.i >:B >:When M/P is close to one, it is effortless to find a relay site.K >:If M/P is close to 1/1000 then life becomes significantly more difficult,m >:even though M>>N.z >dI >   This clearly assumes that a member of set N (the spammers) would have I >   particular difficulty in creating or acquiring T (a tool) to detect MuL >   (open SMTP relays), and USO (unsubstantiated personal opinion) indicatesJ >   this is likely BA (bogus assumption).  For one corollary, consider theK >   various WD (war dialers) that are available.  Resolving for M is likelyeD >   little more difficult than finding modems, given the TI (typicalH >   inclination) and HxN (history of N), and particularly given M/t-subVL >   (rate of potential new "victim" M arriving over unit time t) vs M/t-subCK >   (rate of potential "closures" to M arriving over unit time t).  So long=J >   as M/t-subV exceeds M/t-subC, the efforts of N will likely continue to >   be successful.  G SMTP open relay scanners aren't common, given how big a footprint they sB leave in the logs, leaving the rate at close to non-existant. The J probability of being smacked for doing that reaches 40-50% per system, so D the odds of going unpunished rapidly drop to near zero as M/P drops.  J Instead the bigger indicator of spam relay probability is closer to a the  modified clue formula:  *    sqrt(cluon density + (M/P) * 100) / 100  L It can't be the straight clue formula--sqrt(cluon density)--since the cluon G density around a spammer is by definition negative. (Which, of course, jI jibes with reality, as it indicates that a clued spammer is, in fact, an E imaginary thing)     					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"-------------------r2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and evenu;                                       teddy bears get drunkr   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 17:22:42 +0000 (   )t3 From: Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com>r? Subject: Part numbers for Qbus SCSI + ESDI controllers, anyone?eJ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10006071716240.13762-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com>  
 Hi everybody,h  C I'm checking around to see about getting a SCSI controller, or ESDI " controller for my VAXStation 3200.  I I've been asked whether I can get specific part numbers of the boards I'm F interested in, so, since I have no idea which ones are good, here's my	 question:   A Does anyone have a suggestion for a nice SCSI controller, or ESDI-@ controller to look for -- and a part number to go along with it?  G By "nice," I mean specifically that I'd like it to format disks, and ifiG it's a scsi controller, maybe be able to use more than just one type ofiD device (disk and tape would be great -- cdrom would be even better).  @ Failing the "nice" part, does anyone have part numbers from any  controllers that would work?    = Lastly, if the controller isn't so "nice," what can it do? :)      Thanks for any help.   Regards,   Chrisv  O ===============================================================================w@ "My two cents"			(http://rootworks.com/twocentsworth.cgi?128562)= Christopher Smith(chriss@pubserv.com)			Prgramer^W Programmers Prime Synergy of Champaign, IL.c% -------------------------------------aI "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes andiH weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes; and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949 tO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------(   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 16:19:26 GMTi From: d.webb@mdx.ac.ukB Subject: Re: Prior version support was (Re: OpenVMS commentaries )) Message-ID: <8hlslr$6q0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>V  + In article <8hj982$nik$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>,.8   "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> wrote:F > The current version is V7.2-1, the previous version is V7.2, the one before > that was V7.1-2. >tH > The two "mainstream" versions of OpenVMS (at least on Alpha) today areD > V7.1-2 and V7.2-1.  The first thing I ask anyone with a problem on	 something > > other than these two versions, is to upgrade to one of them.  = Historically on VMS main releases have been of the form Vx.y.   A Versions of the form Vx.y-z were minor releases mainly bug-fixes.0C Versions of the form Vx.y-zHp  were minor releases with support fore
 new hardware.n   Has this now changed ?  ? I am not aware of any compelling reason to upgrade to VMS 7.1-2 D so long as you have applied patches from the patch site for VMS 7.1.    A For VMS 7.2 I would upgrade to VMS 7.2-1 since there were so manyeD problems with TCPIP and other things on VMS 7.2 which are fixed most! simply by upgrading to VMS 7.2-1.a  < However the two main versions are still VMS 7.2 and VMS 7.1.  / VMS 7.1-2 is not a main version just a bug fix.     
 David Webb VMS and unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    
 >  There werehE > enough important fixes made that I would not want to try and extendxF > "standard" support back to any of the V7.1-1H* releases.  V7.1-2 has been > out a *long* time now. >UB > When I look to write new support for devices (say a new graphics adapter), Iu+ > develop for the V7.1-2 baselevel forward.e >sD > d.webb@mdx.ac.uk wrote in message <8h8k81$qa1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>...A > >In article <802568F2.0041F477.00@qedilc01.qedi.quintiles.com>,e& > >  steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote: > >> > >> >o > ...i >hD > >My memory may well be faulty but when Prior Version support first came > >out I thought it was :- > >uB > >We will support the current main version and the preceding main versionaG > >but you will have to pay for this thing called Prior version supporte > >for earlier versions. > >oH > >Now it seems to be we will support the current version and get you toE > >pay extra for support on all previous versions after a short gracey# > >period for the previous version.C > >o >c >r    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.'   ------------------------------   Date: 7 Jun 2000 17:49:43 GMTs2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)B Subject: Re: Prior version support was (Re: OpenVMS commentaries )6 Message-ID: <8hm1vn$pr4$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  B In article <8hlslr$6q0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, d.webb@mdx.ac.uk writes:> :Historically on VMS main releases have been of the form Vx.y.  @   Correct.  Maintenance "dash" releases date back to circa V5.0,@   with earlier ("letter") variant releases daring back at least B   as far as V4 days.  Examples of common older maintenance "dash" %   releases include V5.5-2 and V5.4-3.   B :Versions of the form Vx.y-z were minor releases mainly bug-fixes.D :Versions of the form Vx.y-zHp  were minor releases with support for :new hardware. :  :Has this now changed ?   E   Historically there have been a few changes, but the basic model youoG   describe has been in use since V5.*.  Please see the OpenVMS FAQ for mI   some general information on this topic, as well as for the terminology.   I   The one new wrinkle in versions that will see at least limited release oL   is the currently-planned V7.2-6C1 release, which is effectively a limited J   software release ("LSR"), analogous to a limited hardware release (LHR) J   such as OpenVMS Alpha V7.1-1H1.  Like LHRs, this "LSR" release will not J   be shipped out to all software contract customers, as is customary with K   maintenance and functional OpenVMS releases.  This "LSR" will be shipped s   only to specific sites.n  @ :I am not aware of any compelling reason to upgrade to VMS 7.1-2E :so long as you have applied patches from the patch site for VMS 7.1.   C   Starting in July 2000, no new ECO kits are expected to be issued lD   from OpenVMS Engineering for bugs reported in V7.1, V7.1-1H1, and C   V7.1-1H2, as the prefered release for prior version support (PVS)d    contracts is (will be) V7.1-2.  E   V7.1-2 also uses PCSI for all OpenVMS upgrades and ECO kits, which  D   greatly improves the delivery and tracking.  It also includes the D   rather large number of ECO kits available for V7.1, V7.1-1H1, and D   V7.1-1H2, all collected together into one easy-to-install "hunk", D   and it is also the base for various more recent UPDATE (aggregate    ECO) kits.  B :For VMS 7.2 I would upgrade to VMS 7.2-1 since there were so manyE :problems with TCPIP and other things on VMS 7.2 which are fixed mostc" :simply by upgrading to VMS 7.2-1.  @   TCP/IP Services V5.0A installs quite nicely on V7.1 and later.B   There are various OpenVMS ECO kits for both V7.2 and for V7.2-1.  = :However the two main versions are still VMS 7.2 and VMS 7.1.v  E   OpenVMS Engineering considers V7.1-2 and V7.2-1 to be the versions  D   that most folks using the OpenVMS V7.* releases should be running.G   You can certainly choose to run other (or older) releases, of course.a  0 :VMS 7.1-2 is not a main version just a bug fix.  =   Correct -- both V7.1-2 and V7.2-1 are maintenance releases.i  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  " Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 18:52:45 GMT9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) 1 Subject: Syntax-coloring editors (was: C bashing) + Message-ID: <i2YjNbadRwRc@eisner.decus.org>   { In article <Zgs%4.3227$2X2.129940@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam> writes:l  G > Agreed.  I tried to go through some Ada code.  After a few minutes, I L > started wishing for a program that would replace all comments with spaces,J > leaving end of line markers so I could put the source and the documentedI > source next to each other.  The comments were so heavy that I literallyn( > couldn't find the actual program code.  C The professional approach to this in recent years has been to use aeA syntax-coloring editor.  Perhaps the person who wrote the Ada youeF were reading had used one and presumed that readers would use one too.  H One that I know of is called "Alpha" (strangely enough) and is shareware6 or something close.  Ask in comp.lang.ada for details.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 13:41:18 GMTt0 From: carlini@true.lkg.dec.com (Antonio Carlini)% Subject: Re: vaxstation LED meanings?2* Message-ID: <8hliq3$5gu@usenet.pa.dec.com>  d In article <393D1C7C.D4F7DB5A@itac11-sun.sprint.ca>, Dan Gahlinger <dan@itac11-sun.sprint.ca> wrote: >s >Antonio Carlini wrote:  >eL >> means test 6 failed which means one (or both?) of your SCSI busses has an0 >> error - are both of them properly terminated? >e >only 1 bus.  C Two busses - the one you've found and the one you haven't found :-)   ? There is an obvious external terminator on the back of the box.s  = There is a far less obvious terminator on the internal cable.iM The internal cable starts on the mainboard (near the two NCR chips IIRC) and  H works its way round, passing the external connector. Then it carries on M winding around the inside of the box until it works its way back to where it vK started on the mainbord. First time I saw it, it looked like a loop to me.  5 Somewhere there should be a brown "thing" plugged in.t   >aK >> You should begin to see the KA43 banner - but the tests do take a *long*y > time;sP >> multiple minutes. It is very easy to decide that anything taking this long toM >> say hello is broken. It isn't broken. Try leaving it for ten minutes (with  > theeJ >> monitor brightness and contrast set so that the monitor will definitely >> display something :-) ) >l7 >is six hours long enough? no display. no banner. nada.s  4 Six hours - obviously the screen saver kicked in :-)5 (OK - so there is no screen saver that I know of ...)eL By the time it gets to finding the faulty SCSI you should have stuff on the  screen.s  O If I remember, I'll go power cycle a 76 and see how long it takes for stuff to e appear.e  K I'm assuming that you see some "flashing" and minimal test patterns on the gH monitor a minute or two after the box is powered on? I guess it's worth + checking that the monitor and cable are OK?m  H Are you using a GPX or SPX card (for colour) or are you using the basic  monochrome functionality?i   Antonioa  I Antonio Carlini                            Mail: carlini@true.lkg.dec.comi# DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS Engineering 6 COMPAQ                                     Reading, UK   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 10:55:04 -0500 . From: Dan Gahlinger <dan@itac11-sun.sprint.ca>% Subject: Re: vaxstation LED meanings?n4 Message-ID: <393E7058.1400E53E@itac11-sun.sprint.ca>   Antonio Carlini wrote:  E > Two busses - the one you've found and the one you haven't found :-)a >iA > There is an obvious external terminator on the back of the box.  > ? > There is a far less obvious terminator on the internal cable..N > The internal cable starts on the mainboard (near the two NCR chips IIRC) andI > works its way round, passing the external connector. Then it carries on,N > winding around the inside of the box until it works its way back to where itL > started on the mainbord. First time I saw it, it looked like a loop to me.7 > Somewhere there should be a brown "thing" plugged in.t  Y oiriginally the cable came out of the mainboard, then into the scsi/fdi adapter (5419288)r[ and to the drives, and the external connector, and to an open connector which has the brown   "thing" (terminator) plugged in.  e I've tried it with the 5419288 plugged in with no hard drives, just the floppy, and I've also removedrb the 5419288. I've had the brown thing on with the external terminator on, and without the externalN terminator. I've also tried it without any cable plugged into the motherboard.   always the same thing.  P > If I remember, I'll go power cycle a 76 and see how long it takes for stuff to	 > appear.e >tL > I'm assuming that you see some "flashing" and minimal test patterns on theI > monitor a minute or two after the box is powered on? I guess it's worth - > checking that the monitor and cable are OK?a  g yes, it powers up then does the video tests, then after a few minutes the LEDs on the keyboard light up g (and stay on - "lock" and "compose" LEDs), after the video tests are done the screen goes blank (a sort . of whitish color) and that's it. nothing more.  I > Are you using a GPX or SPX card (for colour) or are you using the basic  > monochrome functionality?e  ` I'm using 8plane graphics, I was not using motif or decwindows at all, just booting to a prompt.e the system would normally do the countdown "F...E..." etc within a few minutes but that doesn't show.ME then it would get to the ">>>" prompt. but it doesn't do that either.    Dan    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 12:44:05 -0400c# From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>u% Subject: Re: vaxstation LED meanings? + Message-ID: <393E7BD5.7578F44A@hsc.vcu.edu>a  ? just off my mind, will the brown "thing" plug straight into theh motherboard????e   just wondering..   Dan Gahlinger wrote: >  > Antonio Carlini wrote: > G > > Two busses - the one you've found and the one you haven't found :-)l > >iC > > There is an obvious external terminator on the back of the box.u > > A > > There is a far less obvious terminator on the internal cable.eP > > The internal cable starts on the mainboard (near the two NCR chips IIRC) andK > > works its way round, passing the external connector. Then it carries on P > > winding around the inside of the box until it works its way back to where itN > > started on the mainbord. First time I saw it, it looked like a loop to me.9 > > Somewhere there should be a brown "thing" plugged in.- > [ > oiriginally the cable came out of the mainboard, then into the scsi/fdi adapter (5419288)>] > and to the drives, and the external connector, and to an open connector which has the brown " > "thing" (terminator) plugged in. > g > I've tried it with the 5419288 plugged in with no hard drives, just the floppy, and I've also removedsd > the 5419288. I've had the brown thing on with the external terminator on, and without the externalP > terminator. I've also tried it without any cable plugged into the motherboard. >  > always the same thing. > R > > If I remember, I'll go power cycle a 76 and see how long it takes for stuff to > > appear.v > >oN > > I'm assuming that you see some "flashing" and minimal test patterns on theK > > monitor a minute or two after the box is powered on? I guess it's worthd/ > > checking that the monitor and cable are OK?t > i > yes, it powers up then does the video tests, then after a few minutes the LEDs on the keyboard light upei > (and stay on - "lock" and "compose" LEDs), after the video tests are done the screen goes blank (a sorth0 > of whitish color) and that's it. nothing more. > K > > Are you using a GPX or SPX card (for colour) or are you using the basict > > monochrome functionality?o > b > I'm using 8plane graphics, I was not using motif or decwindows at all, just booting to a prompt.g > the system would normally do the countdown "F...E..." etc within a few minutes but that doesn't show.PG > then it would get to the ">>>" prompt. but it doesn't do that either.v >  > Dang   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 03:20:37 -0700a2 From: Udo Kaul <udo.kaulNOudSPAM@merck.de.invalid>) Subject: VMS 7.2-1 + Winframe Java Cliento9 Message-ID: <209f9e74.366c5ebe@usw-ex0110-076.remarq.com>    Hi,l  9 is there anybody who have experience with VMS 7.2-1 , JDK ( 1.1.8-5 and Winframe ICA Java - Client ?  < We have a installation that should works, but there are some: Problems left. After some minutes work with ICA-Client the Display are "frozen".u Any Ideas ?      Regards , Udo Kaul       * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautifulu   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 10:49:12 GMT % From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> - Subject: Re: VMS 7.2-1 + Winframe Java Client ) Message-ID: <8hl9b5$nda$1@nnrp1.deja.com>-  9 In article <209f9e74.366c5ebe@usw-ex0110-076.remarq.com>,t5   Udo Kaul <udo.kaulNOudSPAM@merck.de.invalid> wrote:  > Hi,  > ; > is there anybody who have experience with VMS 7.2-1 , JDK.* > 1.1.8-5 and Winframe ICA Java - Client ? >.> > We have a installation that should works, but there are some< > Problems left. After some minutes work with ICA-Client the > Display are "frozen".h
 > Any Ideas ?   > I played with this a while ago and it did seem to more or less= work. Make sure you use the -jit switch to java (I think thiso< may now be the default anyway) and try increasing the memory; available to the jvm (switches -mx, -ss, -oss). If I recalli9 correctly I had to set a value for -mx. No I don't recallo: what it was... but check the docs for the current defaults  and double them as a suggestion.  @ I haven't tried this under 7.2-1 so my experience relates to 7.1 with JDK 1.1.6   > Regards , Udo Kaul >eC > * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can alsoyC find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.f Smart is Beautiful >,   -- --
 Alan Greig    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.=   ------------------------------  " Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 14:44:21 GMT, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)A Subject: Re: What is the simplest way to network two VMS systems?-+ Message-ID: <ilRIWLmI1Api@eisner.decus.org>a  m In article <01bfcfd8$60718080$4b53b083@ptregoni.esoc.esa.de>, "Phil Tregoning" <ptregoni@esoc.esa.de> writes: : > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in article >> sK >> DECNET-PLUS is overly complex and a pain to manage. Avoid it unless your- >> network requires it.- > M > Lots of people seem to say this in comp.os.vms. I've been using DECnet/plusx= > for a few years now, and quite like it. Am I just perverse?m >   G No.  DECnet-Plus is more complex than Phase IV, but it hasn't been thatkH bad since I actually RTFM.  The real problem is in RTFM, they are not asH well organized and concise as they could be.  More is not always better.  A It took me three guesses to find the book that includes how-to on F proxies and it didn't tell me what I needed to know.  It just said setE up the proxies using UAF (duh), but I needed to know that there is notH equivalent to NCP set known proxies all, and that none is needed.  I had, to work that out by trial and look-it-works.  D Coming from a Phase 2, 3, and IV background, I needed to be untaughtD NCP set known proxies all.  The need to unteach what is wrong (or no3 longer correct) is a proven principle in education.   G I miss my one volume DECnet manual that I had with VMS 2.5, but it onlycE handled Phase 3 over DDCMP.  I expect DECnet-Plus to document all theoF additional stuff it does, but I expect it to be documented better than it is.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = Hubble Space Telescope Payload  | Federal Sector, Civil Group E  Flight Software Team           | please remove ".aspm" when replyingu   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 10:08:40 +0200r= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>e& Subject: Re: Where is javadoc for VMS?) Message-ID: <393E0308.A4A7C3AA@gtech.com>a   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: > What is JAVADOC ?   B If you write your code with comments formatted a special way, then< JAVADOC can generate HTML documentation from those comments.   Arne   ------------------------------  " Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 15:32:08 GMT, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)& Subject: Re: Where is javadoc for VMS?+ Message-ID: <uQceL0QcvVhx@eisner.decus.org>   U In article <8hjm0f$i2l$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Mr. Poologic <poologic@my-deja.com> writes:y; > javadoc does not available on my VMS system 7.2-1 system.r > 7 > Why is it not there? Where can I find a VMS javadoc?w >   D You must have a partial (none?) or old JDK installed.  I downloaded B JDK 1.1.8 from Compaq as soon as I installed VMS 7.2-1 and I have  javadoc.  F I found it starting from www.openvms.digital.com, but it's not as easy$ to find from there as it used to be.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = Hubble Space Telescope Payload  | Federal Sector, Civil GroupaE  Flight Software Team           | please remove ".aspm" when replyingi   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 10:58:25 GMT 2 From: "Doug Stephenson" <Doug.Stephenson@sbpa.com>Y Subject: Re: Windows NT hosted Uiltity that can read RMS index fles or VMS Backup formatt4$ Message-ID: <lVp%4.68$vh.19606@news>   Phil,aJ Thanks for the solutionsiq solution.  We already use their connx odbc.  WeJ will look deeper into the RPC interface.  For the most part the data has a2 table-like structure.  Thanks again for your help. Doug: "Phil Howell" <howellp@snowyhydro.com.au> wrote in message, news:wXg%4.10364$N4.377210@ozemail.com.au...3 > Have a look at the connx product from solutionsiqFE > ODBC access using a dictionary can be slow but it also has a remotetA > procedure call interface and rms like client routines which arel; > significantly faster (10Gb is still a lot of data though)eL > However, if you have an odbc server on the vms end and your rms files have aaJ > reasonable "table-like" structure then you can attach them from your sqlI > server database and they will appear to be "local", read-only access to  themC > rms data should not interfere with any processing at the vms end.a > Phil= > Doug Stephenson <Doug.Stephenson@sbpa.com> wrote in message   > news:Lme%4.60$vh.19201@news...L > > We are attempting to move at 10 G of data in RMS indexed data files on aF > > nightly basis from an Alpha to an SQL database on NT (Win2K).  One method > isJ > > to convert the files to sequential, move them and then load them.  The? > > problem is that we do not have the time on a nightly basis.SJ > > If we had a utility that could read VMS Backup and also understand RMS > dataJ > > structures we could perform the conversion on the NT machine.  The VMSH > > machine is for production and must be available as much as possible. > >1L > > We have considered ODBC, but it takes too much time.  Using FTP requiresJ > > that the files not be open by any VMS application (and they still need to > be, > > converted from Indexed for SQL to load). > > ! > > Anyone know of any solutions?T > >a > >h >t >g   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 01:06:25 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>V  Subject: Re: X25 and psi$k_reset, Message-ID: <393DD84F.8C3FAA5D@videotron.ca>   moi_is_me wrote:? >    I have been asked to port some X25 code to TCP. ThroughoutiE >    the offending code, are calls to qiow to "reset the circuit".ie.oE >    psi$k_reset (p4) The QIOW call itself, is wrapped within a timeri > $ >    Q ... Was does psi$k_reset do ?  M I am not sure what the psi implementation of psi$k_reset does, but I strongly-F systect that it is an X.29 command which is sent to the other machine.  N As such, its does a few things, such as asking the remote PAD to drop any dataN not yet transmitted. (think of a 300 baud terminal connected to a PAD and fromJ there  a high speed line to the computer, the PAD will buffer data for theJ slower 300 baud terminal, a reset will force that buffer to be emptied and) bring the circuit to a "brand new state".d  K I am not sure what the implications are for a computer to computer (X.25 tot X.25) connection thought..  H I would think that this would be equivalent to the "kill character" on a telnet session.w  + But I am not 100% sure of any of the above.h   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 13:45:46 GMT 0 From: carlini@true.lkg.dec.com (Antonio Carlini)  Subject: Re: X25 and psi$k_reset* Message-ID: <8hlj2e$5gu@usenet.pa.dec.com>  N In article <8hkfi8$58g$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, moi_is_me <moi_is_me@usa.net> wrote:# >   Q ... Was does psi$k_reset do ?r  # It causes a RESET on the SVC or PVCt  D >   Q ... IF there is any data (in or out) currently within a system9 >         buffer, can psi$k_reset cause any loss of data.a  J You can lose unacked data - the purpose of the reset is to flush the pipe.N You are usually initiating one so that the other end can "re-synch" after the 9 reset knowing that the two ends now agree where they are.c  7 >   Q ... Is there an equivalent Socket function call ?s  - On OpenVMS the QIO interface is what you use.@   Antonios  I Antonio Carlini                            Mail: carlini@true.lkg.dec.comi# DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS Engineeringd6 COMPAQ                                     Reading, UK   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.317 ************************ you've found and the one you haven't found :-)   ? There is an obvious external terminator on the back of the box.s  = There is0 List started.e >>> 226 Transfer completed.0 <<< CWD /freewarev40/mesa/widgets-mesa/includeO >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/mesa/widgets-mesa/include/.  <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok. <<< PORT 195,113,19,90,22,534 >>> 200 Port 22.53 at Host 195.113.19.90 accepted.
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.e >>> 226 Transfer completed. 3 <<< CWD /freewarev40/mesa/widgets-mesa/include/gl0R >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/mesa/widgets-mesa/include/gl/. <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok. <<< PORT 195,113,19,90,22,240r5 >>> 200 Port 22.240 at Host 195.113.19.90 accepted./
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.e >>> 226 Transfer completed.A, <<< CWD /freewarev40/mesa/widgets-mesa/manK >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/mesa/widgets-mesa/man/. <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok. <<< PORT 195,113,19,90,26,124e5 >>> 200 Port 26.124 at Host 195.113.19.90 accepted.c
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.e >>> 226 Transfer completed., <<< CWD /freewarev40/mesa/widgets-mesa/srcK >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/mesa/widgets-mesa/src/.  <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok. <<< PORT 195,113,19,90,28,112 5 >>> 200 Port 28.112 at Host 195.113.19.90 accepted. 
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.e >>> 226 Transfer completed.' <<< CWD /freewarev40/mesa/widgets-sgiOF >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/mesa/widgets-sgi/. <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok. <<< PORT 195,113,19,90,29,200m5 >>> 200 Port 29.200 at Host 195.113.19.90 accepted. 
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.u >>> 226 Transfer completed./# <<< CWD /freewarev40/mesa/windowsAB >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/mesa/windows/. <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok. <<< PORT 195,113,19,90,31,394 >>> 200 Port 31.39 at Host 195.113.19.90 accepted.
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.  >>> 226 Transfer completed./( <<< CWD /freewarev40/mesa/windows/bookG >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/mesa/windows/book/.H <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok. <<< PORT 195,113,19,90,32,184 >>> 200 Port 32.18 at Host 195.113.19.90 accepted.
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.o >>> 226 Transfer completed.e) <<< CWD /freewarev40/mesa/windows/demosAH >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/mesa/windows/demos/. <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok. <<< PORT 195,113,19,90,33,3r3 >>> 200 Port 33.3 at Host 195.113.19.90 accepted.w
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.m >>> 226 Transfer completed.o( <<< CWD /freewarev40/mesa/windows/msvcG >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/mesa/windows/msvc/.3 <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok. <<< PORT 195,113,19,90,33,244n5 >>> 200 Port 33.244 at Host 195.113.19.90 accepted.e
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.s >>> 226 Transfer completed.s <<< CWD /freewarev40/mgbook0< >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/mgbook/. <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok. <<< PORT 195,113,19,90,34,222t5 >>> 200 Port 34.222 at Host 195.113.19.90 accepted.r
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.n >>> 226 Transfer completed.a! <<< CWD /freewarev40/mgbook/srcY@ >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/mgbook/src/. <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok. <<< PORT 195,113,19,90,36,146 5 >>> 200 Port 36.146 at Host 195.113.19.90 accepted.<
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.  >>> 226 Transfer completed.r <<< CWD /freewarev40/mgftp; >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/mgftp/. <<< TYPE A >>