1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 08 Jun 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 319       Contents:' Re: Actual vs Theoretical Network Speed # analyze /disk output interpretation ' Re: analyze /disk output interpretation ' Re: analyze /disk output interpretation ' Re: analyze /disk output interpretation ' Re: analyze /disk output interpretation 
 Re: C bashing / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures / Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures > Re: Canadian Association of Compaq Users Symposium rescheduled> Re: Canadian Association of Compaq Users Symposium rescheduled> Re: Canadian Association of Compaq Users Symposium rescheduled> Re: Canadian Association of Compaq Users Symposium rescheduled. Re: Charon VAX on PC emulator - Asynch DECNET?. Re: Charon VAX on PC emulator - Asynch DECNET?. Re: Charon VAX on PC emulator - Asynch DECNET? Re: Command Line question  Re: Command Line question  Re: Command Line question  Re: Command Line question   RE: Console Monitoring Software.! DECC equivalent of HP's strord( ) , Re: Detecting memory leak in C with debugger, Re: Detecting memory leak in C with debugger File currently locked  RE: File currently locked  Re: File currently locked  Get me outa here!  Re: Get me outa here!  RE: Get me outa here! $ Re: Hobbyist vms 7.2 alpha questions$ Re: Hobbyist vms 7.2 alpha questions$ Re: Hobbyist vms 7.2 alpha questions$ Re: Hobbyist vms 7.2 alpha questions) LN15AC toner cartridge compatible to ...? - Re: LN15AC toner cartridge compatible to ...?  Re: Logging On As Root. Re: Microsoft loses, www.compaq.com disappears. Re: Microsoft loses, www.compaq.com disappears) mime processing utilities for VAX/VMS 5.5 - Re: Multithreading and event flags limitation - Re: Multithreading and event flags limitation  Re: OpenVMS AND THE INTERNETA Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire) A Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire) : Re: Part numbers for Qbus SCSI + ESDI controllers, anyone?, Qt2.1.0 GUI library now available on OpenVMSD SAVINGS ON DENTAL AND OPTICAL PLANS FOR YOU AND YOUR FAMILY (131238) RE: system slow  Re: system slow  Re: system slow  Re: system slow  Re: system slow  Tcl/Tk for OpenVMS?  Re: Tcl/Tk for OpenVMS?  Re: Tcl/Tk for OpenVMS?  Re: Tcl/Tk for OpenVMS?  Re: Tcl/Tk for OpenVMS?  Re: tcp/ip printing  Re: tcp/ip printing  Re: tcp/ip printing  Re: tcp/ip printing  Re: vaxstation LED meanings? RE: VMS Employment????P Re: Windows NT hosted Uiltity that can read RMS index fles or VMS Backup formatt  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 08 Jun 2000 18:12:39 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> 0 Subject: Re: Actual vs Theoretical Network SpeedH Message-ID: <y4g0qorw20.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  I Have a look at WS_PING by Ipswitch Inc. (www.ipswitch.com), it contains a I throughput measurement tool. I'm not totally convined of its accuracy, as M it has measured the asymptotic speed on my 10 Mbit network to be 11.2 MBit/s.    	Jan   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 15:12:41 +0200> From: "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr>, Subject: analyze /disk output interpretation2 Message-ID: <8ho612$ied$1@s2.feed.news.oleane.net>  & I've just issued an ANA/DISK DSA2: ... and got meesages such as :  # %ANALDISK-W-BADHEADER, file (x,y,z)          invalid file header 2 -ANALDISK-I-BAD_STRUC_LEVEL, STRUCLEV field is bad< -ANALDISK-I-INVHEADERBUSY, invalid file header marked "busy"         in index file bitmap   What does it mean ? I I do not remember how to get the file path and name given the file id ...      Thanks Jean-Franois Marchal  X9000 - LYON   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 13:52:46 GMT % From: Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com> 0 Subject: Re: analyze /disk output interpretation) Message-ID: <8ho8f7$u78$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   2 In article <8ho612$ied$1@s2.feed.news.oleane.net>,A   "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> wrote: ( > I've just issued an ANA/DISK DSA2: ... > and got meesages such as : > % > %ANALDISK-W-BADHEADER, file (x,y,z)  >         invalid file header 4 > -ANALDISK-I-BAD_STRUC_LEVEL, STRUCLEV field is bad> > -ANALDISK-I-INVHEADERBUSY, invalid file header marked "busy" >         in index file bitmap >  > What does it mean ? D > I do not remember how to get the file path and name given the file > id ...  ? $ dump /header/blocks=count=0 /identifier=(15363,163,0) dkc300:   7 Dump of file _node$DKC300:[USER.ZESSIN]LOGIN.COM;216 on F                                                 8-JUN-2000 15:49:14.48; File ID (15363,163,0)   End of file block 15 / Allocated 16   (                              File Header   Header area ,     Identification area offset:           40-     Map area offset:                      100 -     Access control area offset:           255 -     Reserved area offset:                 255 +     Extension segment number:             0 .     Structure level and version:          2, 17     File identification:                  (15363,163,0) 1     Extension file identification:        (0,0,0)  [...]    --
 Uwe Zessin    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 16:24:38 +0200> From: "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr>0 Subject: Re: analyze /disk output interpretation2 Message-ID: <8hoa7t$krf$1@s2.feed.news.oleane.net>   Thanks ! ...  ) The result for my "bad header" file-id is 3 "FileID references invalid or non ODS2 file header" 0 Unfortunately, the volume DSA2 is an ODS5 disk !   Cordialement
 Jean-Franois       2 "Uwe Zessin" <zessin@my-deja.com> wrote in message# news:8ho8f7$u78$1@nnrp1.deja.com... 4 > In article <8ho612$ied$1@s2.feed.news.oleane.net>,C >   "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> wrote: * > > I've just issued an ANA/DISK DSA2: ... > > and got meesages such as : > > ' > > %ANALDISK-W-BADHEADER, file (x,y,z)  > >         invalid file header 6 > > -ANALDISK-I-BAD_STRUC_LEVEL, STRUCLEV field is bad@ > > -ANALDISK-I-INVHEADERBUSY, invalid file header marked "busy"  > >         in index file bitmap > >  > > What does it mean ? F > > I do not remember how to get the file path and name given the file
 > > id ... > A > $ dump /header/blocks=count=0 /identifier=(15363,163,0) dkc300:  > 9 > Dump of file _node$DKC300:[USER.ZESSIN]LOGIN.COM;216 on H >                                                 8-JUN-2000 15:49:14.48= > File ID (15363,163,0)   End of file block 15 / Allocated 16  > * >                              File Header > 
 > Header area . >     Identification area offset:           40/ >     Map area offset:                      100 / >     Access control area offset:           255 / >     Reserved area offset:                 255 - >     Extension segment number:             0 0 >     Structure level and version:          2, 19 >     File identification:                  (15363,163,0) 3 >     Extension file identification:        (0,0,0)  > [...]  >  > -- > Uwe Zessin >  > ( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.    ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 2000 08:07:22 -0700 * From: dunnett@mala.bc.ca (Malcolm Dunnett)0 Subject: Re: analyze /disk output interpretation, Message-ID: <K2YZNTNRFMEX@malvm2.mala.bc.ca>  3 In article <8ho612$ied$1@s2.feed.news.oleane.net>,  B   "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> writes:( > I've just issued an ANA/DISK DSA2: ... > and got meesages such as : > % > %ANALDISK-W-BADHEADER, file (x,y,z)  >         invalid file header 4 > -ANALDISK-I-BAD_STRUC_LEVEL, STRUCLEV field is bad> > -ANALDISK-I-INVHEADERBUSY, invalid file header marked "busy" >         in index file bitmap >  > What does it mean ?   >   Probably nothing significant. These errors are common if the@ disk needs a /REBUILD. They are generally unused headers which a? system has placed in its "free headers" cache ( and thus marked B as "busy" in the index file bitmap). The other error one typically< sees in this situation is "Deleted file header marked busy".  <   Try doing a SET VOLUME/REBUILD on the disk and running the analyze again.  M ============================================================================= M Malcolm Dunnett      Malaspina University-College   Email: dunnett@mala.bc.ca H Information Systems  Nanaimo, B.C. CANADA V9R 5S5     Tel: (250)755-8738   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:30:19 +0200> From: "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr>0 Subject: Re: analyze /disk output interpretation2 Message-ID: <8hoe33$n49$1@s2.feed.news.oleane.net>  % I've already used ana/disk/repair ... @ as obvioulsy there wasn't anything to recover behind the file-id/ However, I've decided to check this more often, $ and next time I will issue a rebuild Thanks a lot !
 Jean-Franois   7 "Malcolm Dunnett" <dunnett@mala.bc.ca> wrote in message & news:K2YZNTNRFMEX@malvm2.mala.bc.ca...4 > In article <8ho612$ied$1@s2.feed.news.oleane.net>,D >   "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> writes:* > > I've just issued an ANA/DISK DSA2: ... > > and got meesages such as : > > ' > > %ANALDISK-W-BADHEADER, file (x,y,z)  > >         invalid file header 6 > > -ANALDISK-I-BAD_STRUC_LEVEL, STRUCLEV field is bad@ > > -ANALDISK-I-INVHEADERBUSY, invalid file header marked "busy"  > >         in index file bitmap > >  > > What does it mean ?  > @ >   Probably nothing significant. These errors are common if theB > disk needs a /REBUILD. They are generally unused headers which aA > system has placed in its "free headers" cache ( and thus marked D > as "busy" in the index file bitmap). The other error one typically> > sees in this situation is "Deleted file header marked busy". > > >   Try doing a SET VOLUME/REBUILD on the disk and running the > analyze again. >  > L ============================================================================ = < > Malcolm Dunnett      Malaspina University-College   Email: dunnett@mala.bc.caJ > Information Systems  Nanaimo, B.C. CANADA V9R 5S5     Tel: (250)755-8738 >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 17:14:49 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>  Subject: Re: C bashing) Message-ID: <393FB869.57720C12@gtech.com>    Nigel Arnot wrote:L > If you want C for cheap, there's Cygwin. It's a port of GCC to Win32, with@ > most of the usual unix command-line tools. It's $99. It works. > http://www.cygnus.com/cygwin   Cygwin is great I use it.   @ And if you can download at work, then download all the stuff and save the $99 !   Arne   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 16:06:06 +1000- From: "Dick Adams" <adams.dick.rc@bhp.com.au> 8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures4 Message-ID: <8hncv7$h6q$2@gossamer.itmel.bhp.com.au>   Guys, J     I love this discussion (I may actually be learning something),  I have postedK a humorous (possibly true?) story I was sent a while back, at the bottom of K this message. An interesting fact that many of you may like to know is that I yesterday morning I received a phone call from London (I am in Australia) J asking me to partake in a phone survey on computer software. A few minutesJ into the survey I realised it was aimed at PC software (read billybox) and another A minute after that I was convinced it had been commissioned by M$.   8     Rest assured I passed on the opinions of this group.   Dick   Unix Creators admit C Hoax!!  D In an announcement that stunned the computer industry, Ken Thompson,E Dennis Ritchie and Brian Kernighan admitted the Unix operating system F and C programming language created by them is an elaborate prank, kept> alive over 20 years. Speaking at the recent UnixWorld Software3 Development Forum, Thompson revealed the following:   6 "In 1969, AT&T had just terminated their work with theD GE/Honeywell/AT&T Multics project. Brian and I had started work withE an early release of Pascal from Professor Niklaus Wirth's ETH labs in A Switzerland and we were impressed with its elegant simplicity and ? power. Dennis had just finished reading 'Bored of the Rings', a E National Lampoon parody of the Tolkien's 'Lord of the Rings' trilogy. C As a lark, we decided to do parodies of the Multics environment and D Pascal. Dennis and I were responsible for the operating environment.A We looked at Multics and designed the new OS to be as complex and A cryptic as possible to maximize casual users' frustration levels, D calling it Unix as a parody of Multics, as well as other more risqueF allusions. We sold the terse command language to novitiates by telling  them that it saved them typing."  B Then Dennis and Brian worked on a warped version of Pascal, calledA 'A'. 'A' looked a lot like Pascal, but elevated the notion of the ? direct memory address (which Wirth had banished) to the central B concept of the language. This was Dennis's contribution, and he inB fact coined the term "pointer" as an innocuous sounding name for a truly malevolent construct.   E Brian must be credited with the idea of having absolutely no standard @ I/O specification: this ensured that at least 50% of the typicalB commercial program would have to be recoded when changing hardwareF platforms. Brian was also responsible for pitching this lack of I/O asF a feature: it allowed us to describe the language as "truly portable".    D When we found others were actually creating real programs with A, weA removed compulsory type-checking on function arguments. Later, we B added a notion we called "casting": this allowed the programmer toE treat an integer as though it were a 50k user-defined structure. When A we found that some programmers were simply not using pointers, we A eliminated the ability to pass structures to functions, enforcing , their use in even the Simplest applications.  = We sold this, and many other features, as enhancements to the B efficiency of the language. In this way, our prank evolved into B,B BCPL, and finally C. We stopped when we got a clean compile on the following syntax:   G for (;P("\n"),R-;P("|"))for(e=3DC;e-;P("_"+(*u++/8)%2))P("|"+(*u/4)%2);   D At one time, we joked about selling this to the Soviets to set theirD computer science progress back 20 or more years. Unfortunately, AT&TE and other US corporations actually began using Unix and C. We decided D we'd better keep mum, assuming it was just a passing phase. In fact,D it's taken US companies over 20 years to develop enough expertise toD generate useful applications using this 1960's technological parody.< We are impressed with the tenacity of the general Unix and C= programmer. In fact, Brian, Dennis and I have never ourselves C attempted to write a commercial application in this environment. We ? feel really guilty about the chaos, confusion and truly awesome D programming projects that have resulted from our silly prank so long ago."   F Dennis Ritchie said: "What really tore it (just when AIDA was catchingD on), was that Bjarne Stroustrup caught onto our joke. He extended itE to further parody, Smalltalk. Like us, he was caught by surprise when > nobody laughed. So he added multiple inheritance, virtual baseA classes, and later ... templates. All to no avail. So we now have @ compilers that can compile 100,000 lines per second, but need toB process header files for 25 minutes before they get to the meat of "Hello, World".   B Major Unix and C vendors and customers, including AT&T, Microsoft,A Hewlett-Packard, GTE, NCR, and DEC have refused to comment on the E announcement. Officials of Borland International, a leading vendor of E object-oriented tools, including Turbo Pascal and Borland C++, stated * they suspected this for a couple of years.  D In fact, the notoriously late Quattro Pro for Windows was originallyE written in C++. Borland CEO Del Yocam said: "I'm told that, after twotD and a half years of programming, and massive programmer burn-out, weE recoded the whole thing in Turbo Pascal in three months. It's fair towA say that Turbo Pascal saved our bacon back then". Another Borlanda? spokesman said that they would continue to enhance their Pascal 4 products, and halt further efforts to develop C/C++.  E Professor Wirth of the ETH institute and father of the Pascal, ModulaFD 2 and Oberon structured languages, cryptically said "P.T. Barnum was# right." He had no further comments.h   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 16:22:54 +1000- From: "Dick Adams" <adams.dick.rc@bhp.com.au>a8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures4 Message-ID: <8hndun$k3u$2@gossamer.itmel.bhp.com.au>   Unix Creators admit C Hoax!!  D In an announcement that stunned the computer industry, Ken Thompson,E Dennis Ritchie and Brian Kernighan admitted the Unix operating system F and C programming language created by them is an elaborate prank, kept> alive over 20 years. Speaking at the recent UnixWorld Software3 Development Forum, Thompson revealed the following:s  6 "In 1969, AT&T had just terminated their work with theD GE/Honeywell/AT&T Multics project. Brian and I had started work withE an early release of Pascal from Professor Niklaus Wirth's ETH labs in A Switzerland and we were impressed with its elegant simplicity and ? power. Dennis had just finished reading 'Bored of the Rings', acE National Lampoon parody of the Tolkien's 'Lord of the Rings' trilogy.eC As a lark, we decided to do parodies of the Multics environment andeD Pascal. Dennis and I were responsible for the operating environment.A We looked at Multics and designed the new OS to be as complex andmA cryptic as possible to maximize casual users' frustration levels,eD calling it Unix as a parody of Multics, as well as other more risqueF allusions. We sold the terse command language to novitiates by telling  them that it saved them typing."  B Then Dennis and Brian worked on a warped version of Pascal, calledA 'A'. 'A' looked a lot like Pascal, but elevated the notion of the(? direct memory address (which Wirth had banished) to the centralsB concept of the language. This was Dennis's contribution, and he inB fact coined the term "pointer" as an innocuous sounding name for a truly malevolent construct.A  E Brian must be credited with the idea of having absolutely no standarde@ I/O specification: this ensured that at least 50% of the typicalB commercial program would have to be recoded when changing hardwareF platforms. Brian was also responsible for pitching this lack of I/O asF a feature: it allowed us to describe the language as "truly portable".    D When we found others were actually creating real programs with A, weA removed compulsory type-checking on function arguments. Later, we B added a notion we called "casting": this allowed the programmer toE treat an integer as though it were a 50k user-defined structure. WheniA we found that some programmers were simply not using pointers, weTA eliminated the ability to pass structures to functions, enforcingo, their use in even the Simplest applications.  = We sold this, and many other features, as enhancements to thehB efficiency of the language. In this way, our prank evolved into B,B BCPL, and finally C. We stopped when we got a clean compile on the following syntax:   G for (;P("\n"),R-;P("|"))for(e=3DC;e-;P("_"+(*u++/8)%2))P("|"+(*u/4)%2);2  D At one time, we joked about selling this to the Soviets to set theirD computer science progress back 20 or more years. Unfortunately, AT&TE and other US corporations actually began using Unix and C. We decidedoD we'd better keep mum, assuming it was just a passing phase. In fact,D it's taken US companies over 20 years to develop enough expertise toD generate useful applications using this 1960's technological parody.< We are impressed with the tenacity of the general Unix and C= programmer. In fact, Brian, Dennis and I have never ourselves C attempted to write a commercial application in this environment. We-? feel really guilty about the chaos, confusion and truly awesomeeD programming projects that have resulted from our silly prank so long ago."   F Dennis Ritchie said: "What really tore it (just when AIDA was catchingD on), was that Bjarne Stroustrup caught onto our joke. He extended itE to further parody, Smalltalk. Like us, he was caught by surprise wheno> nobody laughed. So he added multiple inheritance, virtual baseA classes, and later ... templates. All to no avail. So we now haveR@ compilers that can compile 100,000 lines per second, but need toB process header files for 25 minutes before they get to the meat of "Hello, World".n  B Major Unix and C vendors and customers, including AT&T, Microsoft,A Hewlett-Packard, GTE, NCR, and DEC have refused to comment on the E announcement. Officials of Borland International, a leading vendor of E object-oriented tools, including Turbo Pascal and Borland C++, stated1* they suspected this for a couple of years.  D In fact, the notoriously late Quattro Pro for Windows was originallyE written in C++. Borland CEO Del Yocam said: "I'm told that, after two D and a half years of programming, and massive programmer burn-out, weE recoded the whole thing in Turbo Pascal in three months. It's fair torA say that Turbo Pascal saved our bacon back then". Another Borland ? spokesman said that they would continue to enhance their Pascals4 products, and halt further efforts to develop C/C++.  E Professor Wirth of the ETH institute and father of the Pascal, Modula D 2 and Oberon structured languages, cryptically said "P.T. Barnum was# right." He had no further comments.j   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 00:43:30 -0400a* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures- Message-ID: <393F2472.5DFCB814@tsoft-inc.com>    Dann Corbit wrote: > ( > A good workman never blames his tools.   But he can praise them. :-)   > int main(void) > {< >     int a = 1; >     int b = 2; >     if (a = b) a = 3;. >     if (a == b) b = 4; >     return 0;. > }n >  > --- Module:   foo.c- >              _ >     if (a = b) a = 3;01 > foo.c(5) : Info 720: Boolean test of assignmentAC > foo.c(5) : Info 774: Boolean within 'if' always evaluates to TrueE >               _  >     if (a == b) b = 4;D > foo.c(6) : Info 774: Boolean within 'if' always evaluates to False > ---- > K > There are diagnostic tools and utilities that will catch gaffes like thispJ > without any difficulty.  An experienced C programmer will spot somethingJ > like this with the eye immediately, but in case he should not, there are > automatic solutions.  N Exactly the type of things I was advocating.  In the case above I stand humbly
 corrected.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 00:53:09 -0400t* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures- Message-ID: <393F26B5.42A69A74@tsoft-inc.com>:   Wayne Sewell wrote:i > T > In article <8hm90u$k1s$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes:M > > 'Dangerous' is clearly in the eye of the beholder.  I don't consider yourtM > > examples 'dangerous' for my own use of C, because they're not the kind ofe > > errors I make. > O > Never?  Never ever?  Can you honestly sit there and say that not once in youruO > professsional life you have ever made one of the errors shown?  No typos ("="6L > when you meant "==") ever???  If that is truly the case, I am impressed asQ > hell.  comp.os.vms has been visited by deity and we must prostrate outselves ins > awestruck wonder.  Amen.  P Well Bill, I'm glad it was you and not me, cause I've been known to make similarM statements.  Having seen the intensity of the flame, I'll be sure to be extrad careful on comp.os.vms.  :-)  # Now where's that nomex flight suit?m   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 2000 07:14:43 CDTl= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.044962.killspam.0138 (Wayne Sewell)I8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures. Message-ID: <XiZq+onNj4Fk@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  R In article <8hnbgj$rb8$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes:J > Wayne Sewell <wayne@tachysoft.xxx.044962.killspam.0138> wrote in message* > news:mwWpwe7r0mNy@tachxxsoftxxconsult...M >> In article <8hm90u$k1s$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>a	 > writes:mI >> > 'Dangerous' is clearly in the eye of the beholder.  I don't consider- > yourK >> > examples 'dangerous' for my own use of C, because they're not the kind  > of >> > errors I make.n >>K >> Never?  Never ever?  Can you honestly sit there and say that not once int > yourK >> professsional life you have ever made one of the errors shown?  No typosm > ("="M >> when you meant "==") ever???  If that is truly the case, I am impressed as.E >> hell.  comp.os.vms has been visited by deity and we must prostrateo > outselves in >> awestruck wonder.  Amen.w > ) > Really, that's OK:  you can get up now..  A Fortunately, I didn't have to do it.  I don't believe your claim.f     -- zO ===============================================================================iM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx : http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)iO ===============================================================================eC Jake Blues: "Sell me your children!  How much for the little girl?"i   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 2000 07:31:04 CDTt= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.044962.killspam.0138 (Wayne Sewell) 8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures. Message-ID: <Sqbi9j0t+EjJ@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  Z In article <393EBCF8.E96911AE@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:   [stuff deleted]    > R > My favorite bitch, and some of you will not agree, is doing a test, ie; ( if a =P > b  vs  if a == b ) and in addition to performing the test, one variable is setP > equal to the other.  Things such as this are real easy to do, and real easy toP > miss when looking for the error.  (Disclaimer, not sure of the syntax, but youN > get the idea.)  Not even going to get into null terminated strings and such. >     M You need to have Todd the Wise and All Knowing bless your code.  He has nevernM made such a mistake in all of recorded history and his Ring of Power preventsd him from ever doing so.t     --  O =============================================================================== M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx : http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)eO ===============================================================================aC Jake Blues: "Sell me your children!  How much for the little girl?"t   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 13:40:28 GMTo* From: westprog 2000 <westprog@my-deja.com>8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures) Message-ID: <8ho7o9$tgc$1@nnrp1.deja.com>i  ' In article <m6B%4.140$Rp5.2397@client>,a0   "Dann Corbit" <dcorbit@solutionsiq.com> wrote:9 > "David A Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message ( > news:393EBF33.4319353@tsoft-inc.com... > > Dann Corbit wrote: > > > D > > > C bashing is done by people cringing in fear of something that > > > they don't understand.  F > > Or maybe it gets bashed more than others because it truly deserves > > it. Possible?a  3 > Anything is possible.  But you are wrong about C.e  ? This being COVMS,people are more likely to have experience witheA facilities that just aren't available to C programmers on Unix ortF Windows. Things like native string types, or RMS. When I came to C, itD was after many years of assembler, Fortran, Pascal and even RTL-2. I@ only worked with C++, so I was spared some of the most egregiousD features of C - having to pass a pointer variable to a function if IF wanted to change the value, for example. But most of the really crappyG stuff in K&R C is still irretrievably there in the latest C++, togetheraB with a whole stack of new horrors. If I want to know the size of aE string, I have to look at every single character. It is impossible topG get meaningful work done without using pointers (and smart pointers aret> not the answer, if you intend to use any C api's). There is noE modularity - every tiny function is visible throughout your program -mB even Fortran IV handled things better than that. (Namespaces are aG wretched hack). No SET variables - if you want to assign properties youeC have to manage the bits, just like writing to a device register. NosB support for threads, so you have to manage Posix mutexes yourself.G Support for COM and CORBA is achieved with big blocks of auto-generateddG code (//!!! DO NOT EDIT ANYTHING OR IT WILL BREAK AND YOU CAN NEVER FIXt
 IT AGAIN).  H > > Dave, who's not in fear of C, Unix, or NT, but reserves the right to > > despise them.c  G What I find depressing is the way that a modern OS is designed around CtC (not even C++). Strings are null-terminated, as if God created them C that way. Even processors are designed to execute C programs, which E means that they have to work like PDP processors of twenty years ago.e  F > Anyone has the right to despise anything they like.  A carpenter can: > despise a hammer.  It won't make him a better carpenter.  ? A carpenter who buys a glass hammer is probably not a very good.? carpenter. The fact that I can use Scott Myers' books to cobbletC together C programs that work doesn't make C a good general purposeoF computer language. As a C programmer, I know that I spend far too muchC of my time compensating for flaws in the language, and checking forg3 things that a decent compiler would reject at once.n   -- J.    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.y   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 10:49:02 -04004. From: Jack Fortune <jack_fortune@towergrp.com>8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures, Message-ID: <393FB25E.C301412C@towergrp.com>   Dann Corbit wrote: >      [snip]  K > Produce some statistics or admit that you are completely full of crap ands- > just spouting without a grain of knowlege. v   Please read:    N http://www.rational.com/sitewide/support/whitepapers/dynamic.jtmpl?doc_key=337       Jack Fortune Atlanta, Georgia USA   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 2000 14:46:08 GMTs# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edue8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures+ Message-ID: <8hobjg$oo4$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>s  / "Dann Corbit" <dcorbit@solutionsiq.com> writes:a  ' >A good workman never blames his tools.g  ( A good workman chooses his tools wisely.  @ A master sculpter won't get very far on a block of granite using a pen knife.  E I have managed to do many things on the cheap, camping, handyman workgC around the house, etc..  But boy, it was so much nicer when I coulde( afford good tools and high quality gear.  9 Sorry, but that particular bromide rubs me the wrong way.c   >int main(void)s >{ >    int a = 1;  >    int b = 2;r >    if (a = b) a = 3; >    if (a == b) b = 4;  >    return 0; >} >  >--- Module:   foo.c >             _  >    if (a = b) a = 3;0 >foo.c(5) : Info 720: Boolean test of assignmentB >foo.c(5) : Info 774: Boolean within 'if' always evaluates to True >              _ >    if (a == b) b = 4;oC >foo.c(6) : Info 774: Boolean within 'if' always evaluates to Falset >---   using what compiler?   Robert   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 2000 14:54:49 GMT # From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.eduI8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures+ Message-ID: <8hoc3p$oo4$2@husk.cso.niu.edu>   , Keith Brown <kbrown780@usfamily.net> writes:% >system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote:a  2 >> "Dann Corbit" <dcorbit@solutionsiq.com> writes:  6 >> >The Y2K problems (for instance) were mostly COBOL.  M >> And would have been in whatever language was used in the 60-70s (-80s?) byi' >> cost conscious mainframe programmersF  < >And the rash of Y2K releated failures should says something >about this.   About cost consciousness?     ) In this particular case I would disagree.,  K Or are you pointing out that the Y2K problem was, in generaly, competently j dealt with?s  E That there apparently was plenty of software written in the 90s that r@ had to be replaced says something about the software industry.    ? Being happily ensconced in the VMS world I only heard rumors sot@ my guess that it mainly says something about PC software is just that, a guess.   Robert   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 17:13:00 +0200t= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>l8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures( Message-ID: <393FB7FC.2EFE47F@gtech.com>   Dann Corbit wrote:L > Almost all of the backlash against C is (I think) due to unreasonable fearN > of UNIX by many legacy programmers who simply do not understand the language > and fear change.  
 I doubt that.e  G Several of the anti-C posters explicitly stated, that they do work withs C today.  G I did not state it, but I actually also do much of my programming in C.n   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 17:10:30 +0200.= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> 8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures) Message-ID: <393FB766.A916A64C@gtech.com>    Dann Corbit wrote:9 > "Peter LANGSTOEGER" <eplan@kapsch.net> wrote in messagen$ > news:393d8cc4@news.kapsch.co.at...7 > > In article <vLf%4.390$tV4.42@client>, "Dann Corbit"d# > <dcorbit@solutionsiq.com> writes:d$ > > >OpenVMS is written mostly in C. > >e6 > > Did you check it with the VMS source listing CDs ?J > > I got the impression by people who have this listings (not me, sorry), > > that this is BULLSHIT. > G > Really.  The Alpha required a rewrite so that the old MACRO had to bee	 > ported.t   ????  E Instead of rewriting the Macro-32 VAX assembler they wrote a Macro-32  compiler for VMS Alpha !   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 11:05:44 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>8 Subject: Re: C bashing (was Re: VMS File Caching Futures- Message-ID: <393FB648.5D125C7F@tsoft-inc.com>"   Wayne Sewell wrote:h > \ > In article <393EBCF8.E96911AE@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >  > [stuff deleted]s >  > >wT > > My favorite bitch, and some of you will not agree, is doing a test, ie; ( if a =R > > b  vs  if a == b ) and in addition to performing the test, one variable is setR > > equal to the other.  Things such as this are real easy to do, and real easy toR > > miss when looking for the error.  (Disclaimer, not sure of the syntax, but youP > > get the idea.)  Not even going to get into null terminated strings and such. > >i > O > You need to have Todd the Wise and All Knowing bless your code.  He has never O > made such a mistake in all of recorded history and his Ring of Power prevents( > him from ever doing so.2  O I see he's branching out.  Last year he proclaimed himself the sole adjudicatorsH of who and what software could use VMS.  Must be one hell of a ring. :-)   Dave   -- u4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 07:00:35 GMT . From: "Curtis Rempel" <curtis.rempel@home.com>G Subject: Re: Canadian Association of Compaq Users Symposium rescheduledn9 Message-ID: <nwH%4.3793$Xn5.71832@news1.rdc1.ab.home.com>   < "alain legault" <alain.legault@nrcan.gc.ca> wrote in message$ news:8hll6n$rbn1@nrn2.NRCan.gc.ca...< > Canadian Association of Compaq Users Symposium rescheduled > I > All of you will I'm certain appreciate that our efforts are directed atn@ > providing our members with the best possible opportunities for professionalL > development, and the exchange of information and ideas. Our event, plannedB > for later this month was showing indications of falling short of
 acceptableG > standards. After considerable deliberation and concerned for the besteJ > interests of the Association and its members, the Executive Board of theD > Canadian Association of Compaq Users (CANACU) has decided that the upcoming5 > June Symposium will be rescheduled to a later date.l  * My goodness.  That certainly was overdone.  E I only received my invitation in the mail yesterday and it is already1G cancelled?  Let's be more realistic.  How about, "we didn't communicatelH effectively to the membership about this event or anything else over theK last two years and therefore it comes as no surprise to us that we have fewdE registrations" ?  I think that is a more realistic statement.  Harsh?aL Perhaps.  Truthful?   Most definitely.  An accurate view of the organization8 from the frustrated membership perspective?  Absolutely.  F > Outside factors beyond the Associations control and some significant  I I for one would be interested in knowing what these "outside factors" areM% exactly.  Could you be more specific?e  J > communications challenges have combined to create the situation that has led-H > the Board to take this measure.  We anticipate that we will be able to& > announce a rescheduled date shortly. >cL > The Association recognizes that a huge degree of effort and commitment hasJ > been demonstrated by a great many people in helping plan and prepare forJ > this event. The Association wishes to publicly acknowledge and thank allK > these individuals, Associations, companies and partners who have provided I > support and who have expressed their understanding and support for this H > difficult decision. We very much look forward to work with them in the near	 > future.I > J > If you would like to discuss this further, I would be more than happy toB > review our decision process with you. Please send me an email to > alain.legault@nrcan.gc.ca. >  >  > Yours truly, >c >o > Alain Legaultt >  > Alain Legault  > President ' > Canadian Association of Compaq Users.  >g" > mailto:alain.legault@nrcan.gc.ca > http://www.canacu.orge >  >   J It is my opinion that the only way in which to rectify the shortcomings ofJ what has become of DECUS Canada in its incarnanation as CANACU, is for theK entire board to resign and for an election to be held.  I believe that onlylL a complete fresh start is the only hope that CANACU is going to survive.  InG its present form, it is doomed.  The failed symposium should be warning,D enough of trouble to come.  Unfortunately, I don't believe the board recognizes this fact.   J Listening to the membership is key to any organization.  There has been noI evidence of this over the past 2 years.  It is time for the board to takee6 it's collective head out of the sand and face reality.  F -- One disenchanted and formerly satisfied member of DECUS Canada, now CANACU.y   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 03:50:33 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> G Subject: Re: Canadian Association of Compaq Users Symposium rescheduled , Message-ID: <393F502D.92813BCF@videotron.ca>   Curtis Rempel wrote:G > I only received my invitation in the mail yesterday and it is already?I > cancelled?  Let's be more realistic.  How about, "we didn't communicateeJ > effectively to the membership about this event or anything else over theM > last two years and therefore it comes as no surprise to us that we have fewa > registrations" ?    N It is pointless to complain. They decided that they should focus entirely on aI symposium and put whatever little energy they have onto that. So it is nobM surprise that they have not had the time to do anything else (such as runningFM a USER GROUP). And since there is no user group, there are no users to attendm= whatever event they may think they are capable of organising.-  M They are an un-elected self-appointed body who have the blessing from Compaq.fL They do not represent users and only represent the interests who whomever atJ Compaq is responsible for them. They have made themselves irrelevant. I amN sorry to say that they are a self-serving body who needs to raise money to pay% for their board meetings and dinners.4  K I can only speak for the former DECUS side of things, and have pity for the.. CTUG side because of what they are stuck with.    K > I for one would be interested in knowing what these "outside factors" aree' > exactly.  Could you be more specific?   B Oh, give them a break. They had to word it diplomatically so theirM announcement looked professional. Remember that they are volunteers. And manyoL of them have jobs that don't allow them to spend time doing board duties. SoN shooting the one who does have a tiny bit of time to devote to DECUS hurts theK wrong person. You should aim at the board members who haven't done anything. except attend board meetings.n  L > It is my opinion that the only way in which to rectify the shortcomings ofL > what has become of DECUS Canada in its incarnanation as CANACU, is for the8 > entire board to resign and for an election to be held.  K That is not quite enough. What is needed is a compaq representative who canhN drive a *user group*, not a symposium. A symposium will/may come once the userM group is strong enough, not the other way around. And symposia drain/burn outeN volunteers, so you have to be very strong to afford to organise such an event.  N Content and member communications are required. And helping spawn LUGs so thatI members can informally meet is what will rebuild DECUS-CTUG.  So you needuN someone at Compaq who has the technical knowedge and contacts to fetch contentN from Compaq, as well as LOCAL OFFICE support to foster LUG activities. And you[ need and infrastructure that fosters distribution of information and member communications.e  ? Attempting a 3 day multi-thread symposium now was simply crazy.r     > I believe that onlywJ > a complete fresh start is the only hope that CANACU is going to survive.  C CANACU, from my point of view, has never existed. When they allowedrM www.decus.ca to die, DECUS died. By giving themselves an unelected mandate onnH a new board, all they have done was extend their glory and prevent a newK organisation from rising. They can do what they want. Fun to watch from the & sidelines, but they remain irrelevant.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 09:43:29 -0400d7 From: "Dr. Alain Legault" <alain@amse.mets.nrcan.gc.ca> G Subject: Re: Canadian Association of Compaq Users Symposium rescheduled=5 Message-ID: <393FA301.41007155@amse.mets.nrcan.gc.ca>t  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------1B690E1859CDA4C756CCEA45$ Content-Type: multipart/alternative;0  boundary="------------119A3D43DE6762345F0D4ADB"    & --------------119A3D43DE6762345F0D4ADB* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitu  E "La critique n'est convoque qu'au seul tribunal de sa propre rigueur"-  T "Critique is only answerable to the court of its own self-consistency and relevance"	 AlthusserR  U (my english translation, sorry their is no "single" english word that would correctlyi represent "rigueur")   That being said>  
  Mezei wrote:t   > Curtis Rempel wrote:I > > I only received my invitation in the mail yesterday and it is alreadysK > > cancelled?  Let's be more realistic.  How about, "we didn't communicateaL > > effectively to the membership about this event or anything else over theO > > last two years and therefore it comes as no surprise to us that we have fewv > > registrations" ? > P > It is pointless to complain. They decided that they should focus entirely on aK > symposium and put whatever little energy they have onto that. So it is no O > surprise that they have not had the time to do anything else (such as runninghO > a USER GROUP). And since there is no user group, there are no users to attendT? > whatever event they may think they are capable of organising.r  Z Concentrating on an event at the detriment of communications was a big mistake no question	 about it. N Other reasons given above should be classified in the speculations department.         >t >lO > They are an un-elected self-appointed body who have the blessing from Compaq.zN > They do not represent users and only represent the interests who whomever atL > Compaq is responsible for them. They have made themselves irrelevant. I amP > sorry to say that they are a self-serving body who needs to raise money to pay' > for their board meetings and dinners.g  ^ All the board members of CANACU were elected  or appointed by due process from DECUS and CTUG.  3 Again the rest is speculation or personal opinions.e     >a >tM > I can only speak for the former DECUS side of things, and have pity for theo0 > CTUG side because of what they are stuck with. > M > > I for one would be interested in knowing what these "outside factors" areT) > > exactly.  Could you be more specific?   Y This would deserve a quite lengthy response fit for a post-mortem document.  Things whichh spring to mind\ and are easily conveyed are : difficulty in promoting a NEW event (i.e. no past history) and\ associated fall outs, underestimating the time needed to recruit sponsors, international andZ local pressure (perceived or real) to deliver the FIRST UNITED COMPAQ User Group Event (asB opposed to joint events like the one in Europe earlier this year).     >A >rD > Oh, give them a break. They had to word it diplomatically so theirO > announcement looked professional. Remember that they are volunteers. And manyTN > of them have jobs that don't allow them to spend time doing board duties. SoP > shooting the one who does have a tiny bit of time to devote to DECUS hurts theM > wrong person. You should aim at the board members who haven't done anythingu > except attend board meetings.a  6 Again speculations.....someone is on a roll here :-)))       >D >.N > > It is my opinion that the only way in which to rectify the shortcomings ofN > > what has become of DECUS Canada in its incarnanation as CANACU, is for the: > > entire board to resign and for an election to be held.  [ I fail to see what purpose this would serve.  First because an election is going on  and wer
 have a lot] of difficulty finding people who are "ready to step up to the plate".  Second because I don'tf
 think that[ the board "hasn't done anything".  It certainly failed to communicate the progresses but tok assume that , nothing has been done is at best simplistic.   >- >-M > That is not quite enough. What is needed is a compaq representative who can.P > drive a *user group*, not a symposium. A symposium will/may come once the userO > group is strong enough, not the other way around. And symposia drain/burn out P > volunteers, so you have to be very strong to afford to organise such an event.  X This a good point but for the fact that we DO have a Compaq representative that has been	 extremelytZ helpful in bringing DECUS and TUG together.  I should say "HAD" because Ron Catcheside has beenQ named to a world-wide User Group function. We are in the process of finding a newtG representative (Ron stays as Canadian Compaq Delegate in the meantime).        >= > P > Content and member communications are required. And helping spawn LUGs so thatK > members can informally meet is what will rebuild DECUS-CTUG.  So you needfP > someone at Compaq who has the technical knowedge and contacts to fetch contentP > from Compaq, as well as LOCAL OFFICE support to foster LUG activities. And you] > need and infrastructure that fosters distribution of information and member communications.   [ Agreed again but I would put communications before content.  At least this is my reading ofe thes[ situation: don't wait till you think you have a "fantastic" offering....start communicatingo immediately.9 After all a "peer village place" is one of our offerings.s     >i >pA > Attempting a 3 day multi-thread symposium now was simply crazy.o  < Presumptuous maybe......"crazy" is a specific clinical term.     >  >A > > I believe that onlytL > > a complete fresh start is the only hope that CANACU is going to survive. >gE > CANACU, from my point of view, has never existed. When they allowedgO > www.decus.ca to die, DECUS died. By giving themselves an unelected mandate on J > a new board, all they have done was extend their glory and prevent a new > organisation from rising.    Personal speculation     >  Fun to watch from the > sidelines,   I see a lot of that.........     -- Dr. Alain Legaulti	 President   $ Canadian Association of Compaq Users   Chairman   DECUS Americas Council   Member   COMPAQ Global Advisory Board.a      & --------------119A3D43DE6762345F0D4ADB) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciiu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bite  > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html>E "La critique n'est convoque qu'au seul tribunal de sa propre rigueur"cH <p>"Critique is only answerable to the court of its own self-consistency and relevance"
 <br>AlthusserrH <p>(my english translation, sorry their is no "single" english word that$ would correctly represent "rigueur") <p>That being said <p>&nbsp;Mezei wrote:l* <blockquote TYPE=CITE>Curtis Rempel wrote:K <br>> I only received my invitation in the mail yesterday and it is alreadyCK <br>> cancelled?&nbsp; Let's be more realistic.&nbsp; How about, "we didn't3 communicatemJ <br>> effectively to the membership about this event or anything else over thegH <br>> last two years and therefore it comes as no surprise to us that we have few <br>> registrations" ?L <p>It is pointless to complain. They decided that they should focus entirely on aG <br>symposium and put whatever little energy they have onto that. So itb is notF <br>surprise that they have not had the time to do anything else (such
 as runningG <br>a USER GROUP). And since there is no user group, there are no usersw	 to attendsN <br>whatever event they may think they are capable of organising.</blockquote>F Concentrating on an event at the detriment of communications was a big mistake no question about it.cF <br>Other reasons given above should be classified in the speculations department.-
 <br>&nbsp;
 <br>&nbsp;
 <br>&nbsp; <blockquote TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;H <p>They are an un-elected self-appointed body who have the blessing from Compaq.iM <br>They do not represent users and only represent the interests who whomevere atI <br>Compaq is responsible for them. They have made themselves irrelevant.< I amK <br>sorry to say that they are a self-serving body who needs to raise moneyc to pay6 <br>for their board meetings and dinners.</blockquote>F All the board members of CANACU were elected&nbsp; or appointed by due process from DECUS and CTUG.7 <br>Again the rest is speculation or personal opinions.l
 <br>&nbsp; <blockquote TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;F <p>I can only speak for the former DECUS side of things, and have pity for theg2 <br>CTUG side because of what they are stuck with.J <p>> I for one would be interested in knowing what these "outside factors" area= <br>> exactly.&nbsp; Could you be more specific?</blockquote>hQ This would deserve a quite lengthy response fit for a post-mortem document.&nbsp;  Things which spring to mindeK <br>and are easily conveyed are : difficulty in promoting a NEW event (i.e.eJ no past history) and associated fall outs, underestimating the time neededI to recruit sponsors, international and local pressure (perceived or real)lH to deliver the FIRST UNITED COMPAQ User Group Event (as opposed to joint1 events like the one in Europe earlier this year).-
 <br>&nbsp; <blockquote TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;E <p>Oh, give them a break. They had to word it diplomatically so theirjH <br>announcement looked professional. Remember that they are volunteers. And manyM <br>of them have jobs that don't allow them to spend time doing board duties.n SoH <br>shooting the one who does have a tiny bit of time to devote to DECUS	 hurts thenF <br>wrong person. You should aim at the board members who haven't done anything. <br>except attend board meetings.</blockquote>6 Again speculations.....someone is on a roll here :-)))
 <br>&nbsp;
 <br>&nbsp; <blockquote TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;L <p>> It is my opinion that the only way in which to rectify the shortcomings ofH <br>> what has become of DECUS Canada in its incarnanation as CANACU, is for thedI <br>> entire board to resign and for an election to be held.</blockquote>h  G <p><br>I fail to see what purpose this would serve.&nbsp; First becausea/ an election is going on&nbsp; and we have a lotlO <br>of difficulty finding people who are "ready to step up to the plate".&nbsp; & Second because I&nbsp;don't think thatN <br>the board "hasn't done anything".&nbsp; It certainly failed to communicate! the progresses but to assume thatv0 <br>nothing has been done is at best simplistic. <blockquote TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;F <p>That is not quite enough. What is needed is a compaq representative who can I <br>drive a *user group*, not a symposium. A symposium will/may come once  the userM <br>group is strong enough, not the other way around. And symposia drain/burnr outiH <br>volunteers, so you have to be very strong to afford to organise such an event.</blockquote>J This a good point but for the fact that we DO have a Compaq representative that has been extremelypH <br>helpful in bringing DECUS and TUG together.&nbsp; I should say "HAD" because Ron Catcheside has beenoG <br>named to a world-wide User Group function. We are in the process ofrF finding a new representative (Ron stays as Canadian Compaq Delegate in the meantime).
 <br>&nbsp;
 <br>&nbsp; <blockquote TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;I <p>Content and member communications are required. And helping spawn LUGsh so thatlF <br>members can informally meet is what will rebuild DECUS-CTUG.&nbsp; So you neednJ <br>someone at Compaq who has the technical knowedge and contacts to fetch contentoJ <br>from Compaq, as well as LOCAL OFFICE support to foster LUG activities. And youeH <br>need and infrastructure that fosters distribution of information and# member communications.</blockquote>rJ Agreed again but I would put communications before content.&nbsp; At least this is my reading of therQ <br>situation: don't wait till you think you have a "fantastic" offering....startc communicating immediately.= <br>After all a "peer village place" is one of our offerings. 
 <br>&nbsp; <blockquote TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;O <p>Attempting a 3 day multi-thread symposium now was simply crazy.</blockquote>s< Presumptuous maybe......"crazy" is a specific clinical term.
 <br>&nbsp; <blockquote TYPE=CITE>&nbsp; <p>> I believe that onlyN <br>> a complete fresh start is the only hope that CANACU is going to survive.F <p>CANACU, from my point of view, has never existed. When they allowedF <br>www.decus.ca to die, DECUS died. By giving themselves an unelected
 mandate onF <br>a new board, all they have done was extend their glory and prevent a newn* <br>organisation from rising.</blockquote> Personal speculation
 <br>&nbsp;1 <blockquote TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;Fun to watch from the- <br>sidelines,</blockquote>y I see a lot of that.........
 <br>&nbsp;
 <pre>--&nbsp;- Dr. Alain Legault- President</pre>,  / <pre>Canadian Association of Compaq Users</pre>e   <pre>Chairman</pre>   ! <pre>DECUS Americas Council</pre>f   <pre>Member</pre>u  ( <pre>COMPAQ Global Advisory Board.</pre>
 &nbsp;</html>>  ( --------------119A3D43DE6762345F0D4ADB--  & --------------1B690E1859CDA4C756CCEA45- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;s  name="alain.vcf"e Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitl0 Content-Description: Card for Dr.  Alain Legault  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="alain.vcf"n   begin:vcard  n:Legault;Alain  tel;fax:450 652 0999 tel;work:450 652 7031c x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:cedrl.mets.nrcan.gc.ca$ org:CERDL - Natural Resources Canada version:2.1t* email;internet:alain@amse.mets.nrcan.gc.ca& title:Sectin Head, Process Integrationa adr;quoted-printable:;;1615 Lionel-Boulet	=0D=0AP.O. Box 4800					;Varennes;Quebec;J3X 1S6;Canadao x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Dr. Alain Legault	 end:vcardp  ( --------------1B690E1859CDA4C756CCEA45--   ------------------------------  " Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:24:41 GMT0 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <shannon@world.std.com>G Subject: Re: Canadian Association of Compaq Users Symposium rescheduled & Message-ID: <FvuIx5.EG1@world.std.com>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01BFD14C.E75832E04 Content-Type: text/plain;e 	charset="iso-8859-1"h+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printables  G Better that CACU delays its event than sponsors an event that is less =i than successful.  F   "Dr. Alain Legault" <alain@amse.mets.nrcan.gc.ca> wrote in message =/ news:393FA301.41007155@amse.mets.nrcan.gc.ca...oJ   "La critique n'est convoque qu'au seul tribunal de sa propre rigueur"=20I   "Critique is only answerable to the court of its own self-consistency =r and relevance"=20i   Althusser=20  I   (my english translation, sorry their is no "single" english word that =h' would correctly represent "rigueur")=20      That being said=20      Mezei wrote:=20       Curtis Rempel wrote:=20 E     > I only received my invitation in the mail yesterday and it is =D
 already=20C     > cancelled?  Let's be more realistic.  How about, "we didn't =a communicate=20G     > effectively to the membership about this event or anything else =p over the=20hJ     > last two years and therefore it comes as no surprise to us that we = have few=20r     > registrations" ?=20hF     It is pointless to complain. They decided that they should focus = entirely on a=20I     symposium and put whatever little energy they have onto that. So it =  is no=20H     surprise that they have not had the time to do anything else (such =
 as running=20SI     a USER GROUP). And since there is no user group, there are no users =c to attend=20A     whatever event they may think they are capable of organising.L  J   Concentrating on an event at the detriment of communications was a big =  mistake no question about it.=20F   Other reasons given above should be classified in the speculations = department.=20    =20    =20    =20      =20F     They are an un-elected self-appointed body who have the blessing = from Compaq.=20hF     They do not represent users and only represent the interests who = whomever at=20?     Compaq is responsible for them. They have made themselves =  irrelevant. I am=20dG     sorry to say that they are a self-serving body who needs to raise =  money to pay=20 )     for their board meetings and dinners.   E   All the board members of CANACU were elected  or appointed by due =  process from DECUS and CTUG.=20a8   Again the rest is speculation or personal opinions.=20    =20      =20I     I can only speak for the former DECUS side of things, and have pity =t
 for the=205     CTUG side because of what they are stuck with.=209  D     > I for one would be interested in knowing what these "outside = factors" are=204+     > exactly.  Could you be more specific?3  E   This would deserve a quite lengthy response fit for a post-mortem =n) document.  Things which spring to mind=20cE   and are easily conveyed are : difficulty in promoting a NEW event = F (i.e. no past history) and associated fall outs, underestimating the =C time needed to recruit sponsors, international and local pressure = I (perceived or real) to deliver the FIRST UNITED COMPAQ User Group Event =zI (as opposed to joint events like the one in Europe earlier this year).=20t    =20      =20I     Oh, give them a break. They had to word it diplomatically so their=20eJ     announcement looked professional. Remember that they are volunteers. = And many=20 G     of them have jobs that don't allow them to spend time doing board =t
 duties. So=20vJ     shooting the one who does have a tiny bit of time to devote to DECUS = hurts the=20H     wrong person. You should aim at the board members who haven't done = anything=20i!     except attend board meetings.   ;   Again speculations.....someone is on a roll here :-)))=20R    =20    =20      =20B     > It is my opinion that the only way in which to rectify the = shortcomings of=20J     > what has become of DECUS Canada in its incarnanation as CANACU, is =
 for the=20<     > entire board to resign and for an election to be held.    B   I fail to see what purpose this would serve.  First because an =* election is going on  and we have a lot=20J   of difficulty finding people who are "ready to step up to the plate".  =$ Second because I don't think that=20I   the board "hasn't done anything".  It certainly failed to communicate =e$ the progresses but to assume that=201   nothing has been done is at best simplistic.=20p        =20I     That is not quite enough. What is needed is a compaq representative =e
 who can=20F     drive a *user group*, not a symposium. A symposium will/may come = once the user=20D     group is strong enough, not the other way around. And symposia = drain/burn out=20tJ     volunteers, so you have to be very strong to afford to organise such =	 an event.e  ?   This a good point but for the fact that we DO have a Compaq =l) representative that has been extremely=20uC   helpful in bringing DECUS and TUG together.  I should say "HAD" =T" because Ron Catcheside has been=20G   named to a world-wide User Group function. We are in the process of = H finding a new representative (Ron stays as Canadian Compaq Delegate in = the meantime).=20r    =20    =20      =20G     Content and member communications are required. And helping spawn =t LUGs so that=20jJ     members can informally meet is what will rebuild DECUS-CTUG.  So you = need=20 F     someone at Compaq who has the technical knowedge and contacts to = fetch content=20@     from Compaq, as well as LOCAL OFFICE support to foster LUG = activities. And you=20J     need and infrastructure that fosters distribution of information and = member communications.  I   Agreed again but I would put communications before content.  At least =' this is my reading of the=20?   situation: don't wait till you think you have a "fantastic" =l/ offering....start communicating immediately.=20t>   After all a "peer village place" is one of our offerings.=20    =20      =20C     Attempting a 3 day multi-thread symposium now was simply crazy.a  A   Presumptuous maybe......"crazy" is a specific clinical term.=20r    =20      =20     > I believe that only=20G     > a complete fresh start is the only hope that CANACU is going to =" survive.=20   J     CANACU, from my point of view, has never existed. When they allowed=20H     www.decus.ca to die, DECUS died. By giving themselves an unelected =
 mandate on=20hJ     a new board, all they have done was extend their glory and prevent a = new=20     organisation from rising.t     Personal speculation=20e    =20      Fun to watch from the=20w     sidelines,!   I see a lot of that.........=20h    =20 --=20  Dr. Alain Legaultp	 Presidentb$ Canadian Association of Compaq Users Chairman DECUS Americas Council Member COMPAQ Global Advisory Board.     =20  + ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01BFD14C.E75832E0e Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1"E+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablea  > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>3 <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =  http-equiv=3DContent-Type>9 <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3017.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>r <STYLE></STYLE>r </HEAD>d <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>H <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Better that CACU delays its event than sponsors an =
 event that=20o% is less than successful.</FONT></DIV>n <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>  <BLOCKQUOTE=20J style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =, 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">$   <DIV>"Dr. Alain Legault" &lt;<A=20   =mJ href=3D"mailto:alain@amse.mets.nrcan.gc.ca">alain@amse.mets.nrcan.gc.ca</=	 A>&gt;=20h   wrote in message <A=20   =uJ href=3D"news:393FA301.41007155@amse.mets.nrcan.gc.ca">news:393FA301.41007=, 155@amse.mets.nrcan.gc.ca</A>...</DIV>"La=20F   critique n'est convoque qu'au seul tribunal de sa propre rigueur"=20;   <P>"Critique is only answerable to the court of its own =o self-consistency and=20a   relevance" <BR>Althusser=20 G   <P>(my english translation, sorry their is no "single" english word =p
 that would=20s#   correctly represent "rigueur")=20m   <P>That being said=20v   <P>&nbsp;Mezei wrote:=20B   <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">Curtis Rempel wrote: <BR>&gt; I only = received my=20A     invitation in the mail yesterday and it is already <BR>&gt; =e cancelled?&nbsp;=20iF     Let's be more realistic.&nbsp; How about, "we didn't communicate = <BR>&gt;=20 J     effectively to the membership about this event or anything else over = the=20I     <BR>&gt; last two years and therefore it comes as no surprise to us = 
 that we=20)     have few <BR>&gt; registrations" ?=201I     <P>It is pointless to complain. They decided that they should focus =- entirely=20dF     on a <BR>symposium and put whatever little energy they have onto = that. So it=20G     is no <BR>surprise that they have not had the time to do anything ="
 else (such=20yE     as running <BR>a USER GROUP). And since there is no user group, =b there are no=20(H     users to attend <BR>whatever event they may think they are capable = of=20cB     organising.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>Concentrating on an event at the = detriment of=20ED   communications was a big mistake no question about it. <BR>Other = reasons given=20J   above should be classified in the speculations department. <BR>&nbsp;=20   <BR>&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp;=20%   <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">&nbsp;=20iI     <P>They are an un-elected self-appointed body who have the blessing =e from=20 D     Compaq. <BR>They do not represent users and only represent the = interests who=20D     whomever at <BR>Compaq is responsible for them. They have made =
 themselves=20uI     irrelevant. I am <BR>sorry to say that they are a self-serving body =t who=20C     needs to raise money to pay <BR>for their board meetings and=20SA   dinners.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>All the board members of CANACU were =o elected&nbsp; or=20rH   appointed by due process from DECUS and CTUG. <BR>Again the rest is=201   speculation or personal opinions. <BR>&nbsp;=20o%   <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">&nbsp;=20 G     <P>I can only speak for the former DECUS side of things, and have =o pity for=20t=     the <BR>CTUG side because of what they are stuck with.=20nJ     <P>&gt; I for one would be interested in knowing what these "outside =  =     factors" are <BR>&gt; exactly.&nbsp; Could you be more=20tI   specific?</P></BLOCKQUOTE>This would deserve a quite lengthy response =v
 fit for=20I   a post-mortem document.&nbsp; Things which spring to mind <BR>and are =y	 easily=20tD   conveyed are : difficulty in promoting a NEW event (i.e. no past = history) and=20 D   associated fall outs, underestimating the time needed to recruit = sponsors,=20G   international and local pressure (perceived or real) to deliver the =n FIRST=20G   UNITED COMPAQ User Group Event (as opposed to joint events like the =f	 one in=20d*   Europe earlier this year). <BR>&nbsp;=20%   <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">&nbsp;=20rE     <P>Oh, give them a break. They had to word it diplomatically so =  their=20B     <BR>announcement looked professional. Remember that they are = volunteers. And=20J     many <BR>of them have jobs that don't allow them to spend time doing = board=20I     duties. So <BR>shooting the one who does have a tiny bit of time to =p	 devote=20)F     to DECUS hurts the <BR>wrong person. You should aim at the board = members who=203     haven't done anything <BR>except attend board =l" meetings.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>Again=20J   speculations.....someone is on a roll here :-))) <BR>&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; =  %   <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">&nbsp;=20>I     <P>&gt; It is my opinion that the only way in which to rectify the=20iF     shortcomings of <BR>&gt; what has become of DECUS Canada in its=20I     incarnanation as CANACU, is for the <BR>&gt; entire board to resign =o
 and for=20,     an election to be held.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>C   <P><BR>I fail to see what purpose this would serve.&nbsp; First = 
 because an=20aJ   election is going on&nbsp; and we have a lot <BR>of difficulty finding =	 people=20kA   who are "ready to step up to the plate".&nbsp; Second because => I&nbsp;don't=20;G   think that <BR>the board "hasn't done anything".&nbsp; It certainly =n failed to=20F   communicate the progresses but to assume that <BR>nothing has been =
 done is at=20    best simplistic.=20b%   <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">&nbsp;=20l=     <P>That is not quite enough. What is needed is a compaq =u representative who=20&I     can <BR>drive a *user group*, not a symposium. A symposium will/may => come=20uI     once the user <BR>group is strong enough, not the other way around. =b And=20D     symposia drain/burn out <BR>volunteers, so you have to be very = strong to=20I     afford to organise such an event.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>This a good point =n
 but for=20B   the fact that we DO have a Compaq representative that has been = extremely=20F   <BR>helpful in bringing DECUS and TUG together.&nbsp; I should say = "HAD"=20H   because Ron Catcheside has been <BR>named to a world-wide User Group = function.=20G   We are in the process of finding a new representative (Ron stays as =h Canadian=20y<   Compaq Delegate in the meantime). <BR>&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp;=20%   <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">&nbsp;=20eJ     <P>Content and member communications are required. And helping spawn =
 LUGs so=20?     that <BR>members can informally meet is what will rebuild =i DECUS-CTUG.&nbsp;=20J     So you need <BR>someone at Compaq who has the technical knowedge and =  H     contacts to fetch content <BR>from Compaq, as well as LOCAL OFFICE =
 support=20H     to foster LUG activities. And you <BR>need and infrastructure that =
 fosters=20,     distribution of information and member =) communications.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed=20rG   again but I would put communications before content.&nbsp; At least = 
 this is my=20dF   reading of the <BR>situation: don't wait till you think you have a = "fantastic"=20F   offering....start communicating immediately. <BR>After all a "peer =
 village=20/   place" is one of our offerings. <BR>&nbsp;=20l%   <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">&nbsp;=20tB     <P>Attempting a 3 day multi-thread symposium now was simply=20H   crazy.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>Presumptuous maybe......"crazy" is a specific = clinical=20r   term. <BR>&nbsp;=20i%   <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">&nbsp;=20lH     <P>&gt; I believe that only <BR>&gt; a complete fresh start is the = only hope=20'     that CANACU is going to survive.=20mD     <P>CANACU, from my point of view, has never existed. When they =
 allowed=20B     <BR>www.decus.ca to die, DECUS died. By giving themselves an = unelected=20E     mandate on <BR>a new board, all they have done was extend their =  glory and=20J     prevent a new <BR>organisation from rising.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>Personal =     speculation <BR>&nbsp;=20e:   <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">&nbsp;Fun to watch from the=20F   <BR>sidelines,</BLOCKQUOTE>I see a lot of that......... <BR>&nbsp; =
 <PRE>--&nbsp;o Dr. Alain Legaults4 President</PRE><PRE>Canadian Association of Compaq =3 Users</PRE><PRE>Chairman</PRE><PRE>DECUS Americas = ; Council</PRE><PRE>Member</PRE><PRE>COMPAQ Global Advisory =l. Board.</PRE>&nbsp; </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>  - ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01BFD14C.E75832E0--a   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 15:22:41 GMTp. From: Peter Moreton <petermoreton@my-deja.com>7 Subject: Re: Charon VAX on PC emulator - Asynch DECNET?-) Message-ID: <8hodnd$2ds$1@nnrp1.deja.com>-  5 In article <Ioe%4.240$ru5.80198@typhoon.aracnet.com>,e5   "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote::( > Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> wrote:= > > Now to beg/steal/borrow a libretto (the shirt pocket PC).: >aF > Good luck.  I missed a chance to get one about a year and a half ago andEA > have regretted it since.  Not sure how well it would work for a  Pocket VAX, * > but it would make a great pocket PDP-11! >l	 > 			Zanea >P  F I just booted OpenVMS 6.2 on a Libretto 110CT, and I can tell you it'sD the coolest thing in all of christendom, VMS in my pocket! (well, if# you have A5 sized pockets that is.)-   -- Peter Moreton, Northamptonshire,- UK.-    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 17:57:46 +0100t- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>s7 Subject: Re: Charon VAX on PC emulator - Asynch DECNET?t) Message-ID: <393FD08A.3CF31DA6@bbc.co.uk>t  H Can someone repost the URL for this pls, the original post has gone from my newsserver.   TIA.   Peter Moreton wrote:  7 > In article <Ioe%4.240$ru5.80198@typhoon.aracnet.com>,e7 >   "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote:u* > > Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> wrote:? > > > Now to beg/steal/borrow a libretto (the shirt pocket PC).  > >qH > > Good luck.  I missed a chance to get one about a year and a half ago > andlC > > have regretted it since.  Not sure how well it would work for ac
 > Pocket VAX,s, > > but it would make a great pocket PDP-11! > >  > >                       Zane > >l >oH > I just booted OpenVMS 6.2 on a Libretto 110CT, and I can tell you it'sF > the coolest thing in all of christendom, VMS in my pocket! (well, if% > you have A5 sized pockets that is.)l >d > -- > Peter Moreton, > Northamptonshire,i > UK.  >u( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.m   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 19:17:20 +0200> From: "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr>7 Subject: Re: Charon VAX on PC emulator - Asynch DECNET?d2 Message-ID: <8hokbm$qjh$1@s2.feed.news.oleane.net>   http://www.charon-vax.com/    : "Tim Llewellyn" <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote in message# news:393FD08A.3CF31DA6@bbc.co.uk...oJ > Can someone repost the URL for this pls, the original post has gone from > my newsserver. >d > TIA. >i > Peter Moreton wrote: >e9 > > In article <Ioe%4.240$ru5.80198@typhoon.aracnet.com>,e9 > >   "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote: , > > > Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> wrote:A > > > > Now to beg/steal/borrow a libretto (the shirt pocket PC).p > > >eJ > > > Good luck.  I missed a chance to get one about a year and a half ago > > andsE > > > have regretted it since.  Not sure how well it would work for ay > > Pocket VAX,i. > > > but it would make a great pocket PDP-11! > > >r  > > >                       Zane > > >  > > J > > I just booted OpenVMS 6.2 on a Libretto 110CT, and I can tell you it'sH > > the coolest thing in all of christendom, VMS in my pocket! (well, if' > > you have A5 sized pockets that is.)  > >0 > > -- > > Peter Moreton, > > Northamptonshire,. > > UK.  > > * > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > Before you buy.t >" > --8 > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project2 > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.C > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uka >yC > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  > MedAS or the BBC.e >a >o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 02:28:56 -0400a- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>l" Subject: Re: Command Line question, Message-ID: <393F3D12.4B9C520D@videotron.ca>   Martin Vorlaender wrote:J > In DCL, there's a command named RECALL. The last 20 (or so) commands areJ > remembered by DCL. Unlike csh, however, this feature only works within a8 > session, i.e. the history is not saved between logins.  N Recall now remembers the last 254 commands. And you can save the recall bufferL before logging out and  reload your commands when you next login. One of the5 nice improvements that came with recent VMS versions.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 06:17:04 +0200 2 From: martin@RADIOGAGA.HARZ.DE (Martin Vorlaender)" Subject: Re: Command Line question; Message-ID: <393f1e40.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>i  1 Zane H. Healy (healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com) wrote:fJ : At work I use csh on Unix for most of what I do.  It has one really nice> : feature that I like, other than that I pretty much hate csh. :eH : Is there any kind of DCL equivalent of 'history' and the ability to doM : something like a '!lynx' and have it run the last command that started withp	 : 'lynx'?t  H In DCL, there's a command named RECALL. The last 20 (or so) commands areH remembered by DCL. Unlike csh, however, this feature only works within a6 session, i.e. the history is not saved between logins.   cu,    Martin --D                        |  Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer1   OpenVMS: When you    |  work: mv@pdv-systeme.desH   KNOW where you want  |        http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/8   to go today.         |  home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 2000 08:09 CST' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)s" Subject: Re: Command Line question, Message-ID: <8JUN200008095479@gerg.tamu.edu>  " MARTIN@RADIOGAGA.HARZ.DE writes...2 }Zane H. Healy (healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com) wrote:K }: At work I use csh on Unix for most of what I do.  It has one really nicet? }: feature that I like, other than that I pretty much hate csh.o }:I }: Is there any kind of DCL equivalent of 'history' and the ability to do N }: something like a '!lynx' and have it run the last command that started with
 }: 'lynx'? } I }In DCL, there's a command named RECALL. The last 20 (or so) commands areuI }remembered by DCL. Unlike csh, however, this feature only works within aa7 }session, i.e. the history is not saved between logins.O }  }cu,	 }  Martin   H It's more like the last 255 (or something like that) commands, in recentI versions of VMS (where "recent" is defined as something like "released inaG the last 6 years"). Well, actually I'm not certain that this is true ony VAXes, but it is on Alphas.o  N Even more recent versions of VMS (since either 7.1 or 7.2, I don't know which)J have qualifiers that let you save the recall buffers to a file, and reloadD them from a file. Again, I'm not certain that this is true on a VAX.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 17:15:41 +0200l= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> " Subject: Re: Command Line question) Message-ID: <393FB89D.C327E114@gtech.com>2   "Zane H. Healy" wrote:J > At work I use csh on Unix for most of what I do.  It has one really nice> > feature that I like, other than that I pretty much hate csh. > H > Is there any kind of DCL equivalent of 'history' and the ability to doM > something like a '!lynx' and have it run the last command that started with0	 > 'lynx'?t   Try:  
 $ RECALL LYNX    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 05:34:33 -0400 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>e) Subject: RE: Console Monitoring Software.rJ Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D80528438F@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com>   Stuart,e  I I am not familiar with all of them, but remote access to console (usually:I via telnet) is a common request for these packages and I suspect they aren all capable of doing this.   Some are even web based.   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant,
 Compaq Canadan Professional Services0 Voice : 613-592-4660 FAX   : 819-772-7036 Email : kerry.main@compaq.com>       -----Original Message-----; From: Joseph A Abernethy [mailto:Joseph.A.Abernethy@kp.org]l& Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 9:00 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com=) Subject: RE: Console Monitoring Software.;    K do any of these other products give you the ability like Polycenter Console L Manager in which you could connect to directly to the console either throughK the GUI or using the command line?  This is one of the features I like most0I about the product.  I could sit at my desk or dial in from home and watch.L and interact with the console with out having to go upstairs to the computer room or drive in to work.  r Just curious ...   Joseph G Abernethy Kaiser Permanentec OpenVMS/Unix Systems Programmern DSM Management Silver Spring, MDs voice: 301-680-1618i fax: 301-680-1626r       Stuart,s  I Most console manager products work on the basis of supporting any console  that outputs ascii text.  I The real issue is what do these console mgmt products support in terms of<H message awareness ie. if a "-F-" type error happens, can the console pkgF escalate this via email, pager ect? These filter pkgs are OS specific.  E Here are a few alternative products as well (in no particular order):t  1 http://www.robomon.com/product_detail_robocen.htme- http://www.tditx.com/tdicard/www/cwframe.html   http://www.ki.com/products/clim/, http://www.globalmt.com/products/polycenter/K http://www.cai.com/products/commandit.htm (Console Manager replacement from  CA)s   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant,
 Compaq Canadaw Professional Servicesh Voice : 613-592-4660 FAX   : 819-772-7036 Email : kerry.main@compaq.coma       -----Original Message-----8 From: Stuart Symonds [mailto:Stuart.Symonds@t-online.de]$ Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 7:55 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComB% Subject: Console Monitoring Software.e     Hi,=  K Today I learnt that a product called TNG Console Manager developed first byeL Digital and now by Computer Associates is being dropped. TNG Console ManagerL is a fine product and from my understanding is in fairly wide spread use. CAJ have developed there own none VMS version that runs under NT but from whatL I've heard is only half as capable as the older product and twice the price!  K I have heard of one VMS based product called Console Works by TECSYS, is itp any good, and are there others?    Please reply via Email.    Thanks in advance.   Stuart.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 10:44:16 +0200 6 From: Graham Van Der Vaart <Graham.vd.Vaart@AST.CO.ZA>* Subject: DECC equivalent of HP's strord( )P Message-ID: <47DBB722BF1BD21199E00080C8372C1B31A5AB@ntsnexc1.new.iscorltd.co.za>   > Hi7 > We are busy porting some stuff from HP-UX to OpenVMS. H > We have a program that uses strord ( a HP thing ) that converts string
 > data order:" > K > The text orientation (mode) of a file can be right-to-left (non-Latin) ord > left-to-right (Latin).I > Converts the order of characters in s2 from screen to keyboard order or < > visa-versa and places the result in s1. strord returns s1. >  > #include <nl_types.h>x > .. > .;4 > char * strord(char *s1, const char *s2,nl_mode m); > = > What I really need is a DECC equivalent or near equivalent.m	 > Regardse > Graham >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 11:26:47 GMTt- From: Adam Dorosz <adam.dorosz@softax.com.pl>t5 Subject: Re: Detecting memory leak in C with debuggerh- Message-ID: <393F7CAA.D7458BA3@softax.com.pl>e   JF Mezei wrote:   L > I am wondering, is there a way with the debugger to examine the content ofN > memory that is used by malloc and strdup ?, or even better, to find the listJ > of cells currently allocated by malloc and strdup ? (I assume there is a@ > structure somewhere containing a pointer and length of cell ?) >= > VAX, DEC-C, VMS 7.2t  N Try using Heap Analizer. It allows to track memory allocation and check memory contens.Q After compiling and linking your program with /debug run $debug/keep , choos "runo7 image" in File menu and select "Heap analizer" checkboxo? I know it works with Dec C++ v.6.1 so it should with dec-c too.t   Adam   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 2000 11:50:20 GMToF From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman)5 Subject: Re: Detecting memory leak in C with debuggerO, Message-ID: <8ho19s$tvq$1@sniff.shr.dec.com>  \ In article <FvsyJv.DpJ@news.decus.org>, malmberg@eisner.decus.org (John E. Malmberg) writes: >a. >In article <393EAF45.A792C503@videotron.ca>, 0 >JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >rG >>I am running some tests on various modules to ensure quality control.<F >>In using a couple of modules together, I have noticed a memory leak. >2 > K >IIRC the DEC C RTL uses the LIB$GET_VM_ZONE routines to get "large" memoryeF >blocks, and then further divides up the blocks for the malloc() style< >requests.  This tends to make calling malloc() less costly. >n  ? I don't know about a debugger command, but you should also knowg? about the LIB$SHOW_VM call.  This will output information about C how many calls have been made to memory allocation and deallocationPA routines, and how much memory is still allocated.  This should bea> useful in telling you if your program is allocating memory and: not deallocating it (or not deallocating the same amount).   -- s(  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only  8  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission8  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing  list of any kind.  5  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have aa5  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post.x   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 10:50:18 +0200d6 From: Graham Van Der Vaart <Graham.vd.Vaart@AST.CO.ZA> Subject: File currently lockedP Message-ID: <47DBB722BF1BD21199E00080C8372C1B31A5AC@ntsnexc1.new.iscorltd.co.za>   > HiF I am a VMS novice and would like to know how to resolve the following:9 A session that had a file open was abnormally terminated.tF When I attempt to type the contents of the file from another session I7 get...RMS-E-FLK, file currently locked by another user.e How do I unlock the file?=  	 > Regardsu > Graham >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 09:16:49 -0300t1 From: "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com>p" Subject: RE: File currently lockedK Message-ID: <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A0246DA@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>    Hi,t  E 	There could be a couple of ways.  First ensure it's the same process I that has the file open.  $  SHOW DEVICE/FILES  disk_name.  This will givedK you the PID of the process who's got the file open, this is however machinenI specific so if your in a cluster you'll need to do it on each node.  Once"K you know the PID do a  $ SHOW SYSTEM and ensure the process is not stuck inKJ a resource wait state RWAST, MWAIT  or similar.  If this process is in HIB6 or COM or other then you can kill it with STOP/ID=pid.  H One point though, if you really are trying to TYPE the file you may haveL other problems, type (to my knowledge) is a read only of a file and the factD that the file is locked should not matter.  Further investigation isI necessary, try posting results from above and the TYPE command used, alsox" state what VMS version & platform. - Darren   > ----------= > From: 	Graham Van Der Vaart[SMTP:Graham.vd.Vaart@AST.CO.ZA] ( > Sent: 	Thursday, June 08, 2000 5:50 AM > To: 	Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com! > Subject: 	File currently lockedn >  > > HiH > I am a VMS novice and would like to know how to resolve the following:; > A session that had a file open was abnormally terminated.eH > When I attempt to type the contents of the file from another session I9 > get...RMS-E-FLK, file currently locked by another user.n > How do I unlock the file?> >  > > RegardsE
 > > Graham > >  > >  >     F **********************************************************************C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential andEJ may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.M They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom theyPL are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copying  of this message is prohibited.   Bank of Bermuda F **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 07:02:31 -0500 " From: Earl Lakia <lakia@ipact.com>" Subject: Re: File currently locked) Message-ID: <393F8B57.8B094D5A@ipact.com>   G VMS actually RMS unlocks all files during process rundown.  However, if G the process didn't truely exit (e.g., someone did a control-y) then thekF process may still have the file open.  Anyway, to find out who has the@ file open, try:   $show device/files  dua0: (or whatever drive).  = Anyway, someone else has the file open and is not sharing it.r   -earll   --
 Earl D. Lakian0 Senior Staff Engineer         Web: www.ipact.com4 Snail Mail:                   Email: lakia@ipact.com
 IPACT Inc.1 260 S. Campbell St.           Phone: 219-464-7212i Valparaiso, IN 46383     Graham Van Der Vaart wrote:    > > HiH > I am a VMS novice and would like to know how to resolve the following:; > A session that had a file open was abnormally terminated.eH > When I attempt to type the contents of the file from another session I9 > get...RMS-E-FLK, file currently locked by another user.a > How do I unlock the file?n >  > > Regardsn
 > > Graham > >e > >i   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 09:50:49 -0500 (CDT)d2 From: Janet Hickner <jfeltner@brazosport.cc.tx.us> Subject: Get me outa here!Q Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.10.10006080945240.1681-100000@gator1.brazosport.cc.tx.us>s  H I know that this is NOT the way I am supposed to do this but........... J All messages sent to the subscribe/unsubscibe address come back telling meE that I am not subscribed. Well that's great, cause I don't want to be F subscribed! But I am getting tired of deleting 200-300 messages a day.  G Things like this make me wonder just what I was on when I decided to go  into the computer industry!    Your help is appreciated!n Janete   ------------------------------  " Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:26:55 GMT* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) Subject: Re: Get me outa here!+ Message-ID: <TVk8H3Bdg+RA@eisner.decus.org>u   In article <Pine.OSF.4.10.10006080945240.1681-100000@gator1.brazosport.cc.tx.us>, Janet Hickner <jfeltner@brazosport.cc.tx.us> writes:J > I know that this is NOT the way I am supposed to do this but........... L > All messages sent to the subscribe/unsubscibe address come back telling meG > that I am not subscribed. Well that's great, cause I don't want to be H > subscribed! But I am getting tired of deleting 200-300 messages a day. > I > Things like this make me wonder just what I was on when I decided to goe > into the computer industry!  >  > Your help is appreciated!o > Janetr >    Janet,  6 	Computer Industry?   Hey, their is an article in this; 	week's ComputerWorld about folks different trades learning 6 	computer stuff... Maybe you can be part of a trend in9 	the other direction... a renassaince in truck driving...   6 	In fact, every time I get behind that J.B. Hunt truck8 	I realize I could be making 41 cents a mile (top shelf : 	kinda guy, eh?) .. I let my wife know that if a few years7 	ago I averaged 80 miles an hour and worked for 8 hours @ 	a day I would be doing as good as a J.B. Hunt fella... today...= 	well I'm not approaching Space Shuttle speeds but let's just G 	say I would've been able to outrace Wilt Chamberlein cross-country ;-)R    	Oh.. to unsubscribe, see below.   				Rob     6 http://www.openvms.digital.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html  
 From the FAQ:i   INTRO4.   3 How do I subscribe to or unsubscribe from INFO-VAX?p  H The address for subscription requests, as well as notes intended for the- moderator, is Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com.    K Subscription requests are handled automatically by a mail server. This maili2 server ignores the subject line and processes eachN line of the message as a command. The syntax for subscribing and unsubscribing+ and setting digest or non-digest modes is: l  1      SUBSCRIBE INFO-VAX (ADD is a valid synonym)  M      UNSUBSCRIBE INFO-VAX (REMOVE, SIGNOFF, and SIGN-OFF are valid synonyms) t7      SET INFO-VAX DIGEST (to receive in Digest format)  B      SET INFO-VAX NODIGEST (to receive each message individually)   K Case is irrelevant and attempts to fetch a copy of the mailing list will be-9 rejected (I consider the information to be confidential). I Any message not understood by the mailserver will be forwarded to a humanL# (allegedly) for manual processing. 2  <                                 [Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com]   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 12:53:50 -0300d1 From: "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com>o Subject: RE: Get me outa here!K Message-ID: <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A0246F4@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>y   Send a note to the Moderator..  < INTRO4.  How do I subscribe to or unsubscribe from INFO-VAX?  H The address for subscription requests, as well as notes intended for theG moderator, is Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.Com.  Subscription requests area' handled automatically by a mail server.b   - Darren   > ----------9 > From: 	Janet Hickner[SMTP:jfeltner@brazosport.cc.tx.us]M) > Sent: 	Thursday, June 08, 2000 11:50 AM| > To: 	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: 	Get me outa here!t > J > I know that this is NOT the way I am supposed to do this but........... L > All messages sent to the subscribe/unsubscibe address come back telling meG > that I am not subscribed. Well that's great, cause I don't want to beuH > subscribed! But I am getting tired of deleting 200-300 messages a day. > I > Things like this make me wonder just what I was on when I decided to gok > into the computer industry!w >  > Your help is appreciated!t > Janetu >  >     F **********************************************************************C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential andkJ may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.M They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they L are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copyingi of this message is prohibited.   Bank of BermudadF **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 06:45:02 GMTm From: Dan <dan@vrx.net>S- Subject: Re: Hobbyist vms 7.2 alpha questions ' Message-ID: <393F405E.C0852CE5@vrx.net>a   I know how to do that.) how do I upgrade without erasing my data?rG the docs I have (manual with openvms 7.2) just restore a save set which- erases the hard drive.   Dan.   Charlie Hammond wrote:  C > In article <393E53C1.6D367702@vrx.net>, Dan <dan@vrx.net> writes:a  > >Ok let's clear some stuff up. >9
 > You did! >h3 > I think you need/want to upgrade to OpenVMS V7.2.  >UM > There is an issue of the product and kit names that the POLYCENTER SoftwarerK > Installation (PCSI) utility uses.  AXPVMS is the platform name for ALPHA, I > VMS is the name for the OpenVMS operating system.  The name OVMS, whichrH > you will also see, is the name of the OpenVMS platform -- the platformI > includes the OpenVMS operating system and options for DECwindows MOTIF,43 > DECnet Plus, DECnet Phase IV and TCP/IP services.m > C > What you need to do is boot the CD.  Shutdown the system, put theD5 > OpenVMS V7.2 operating system CD in dka400 and boota >e >     >>> b dka400 >i> > This cause OpenVMS to boot with the CD as the "system disk". > It presents you with a menu. >aB > Feel free to use the help ("?") facility at the menu for further > explainations of each option.  >r> > You probably want to select the option to install or upgradeC > OpenVMS.  Then answer the questions you will be asked.  This willmE > upgrade OpenVMS and DECnet.  If TCPIP is not installed, the easiestaG > thing to do is to install it as a second step from the Install Layerd  > Products option on the menu. >:I > Once again, it _will_ help if you get and read the documentation first. * > (I appologize for repeating that again.) >e > --M >     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAiH >          (hammond@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)L >       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 2000 10:38:36 +0200m* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)- Subject: Re: Hobbyist vms 7.2 alpha questionsM* Message-ID: <393f5b8c$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  q In article <8hm58c$r03$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) writes: X >In article <393e93e6$1@news.kapsch.co.at>, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:N >>Did you see the list of the installed products on this system ? Some of themK >>are unknown to me. I can't tell, that they will run on V7.2 or will CRASHeK >>the system (just like POSIX did, if you forgot to deinstall it before the L >>OpenVMS upgrade and reinstall the new version after the upgrade - I think,K >>it was POSIX V2.0 and V3.0, then). You can decide to beg for problems ;-)/ >dM >(1) It is not clear that this problem is made much better by an intermediateoN >upgrade to V7.0.  Yes, he may have to remove some products and upgade others,M >but I don't see this as an impediment to a V6.2 -> v7.2 (or V7.2-1) upgrade.-E >Whateer has to be removed or upgraded has to be done in either case.-6 >Remove the before the upgrade; re-install them after.  I Reread my posting. I suggested an upgrade to V7, not V7.0 !!, or an freshXG install. I think, I should have made it clearer. I never suggested V7.0 G (or V7.1) as an intermediate step for the upgrade procedure to V7.2[-1]iE and I probably never will, because I never had V7.0 and I dislike it.g  F >(2) The question asked was, I believe, how to upgrade WITHOUT loosingG >other things on his system disk.  So an new install is pretty much outf >of the question.d   Agreed.l   -- p< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888i< FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netF <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 11:24:47 -0400i* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>- Subject: Re: Hobbyist vms 7.2 alpha questionst- Message-ID: <393FBABF.8C4FB220@tsoft-inc.com>a  
 Dan wrote: >  > I know how to do that.+ > how do I upgrade without erasing my data?dI > the docs I have (manual with openvms 7.2) just restore a save set whichc > erases the hard drive. >  > Dan.  D On Alpha, you upgrade and install from the CD, using mostly the sameE procedures.  At one point in the install, the question is asked aboutmO 'PRESERVING' what's on the disk.  Choose this, and it's an upgrade, else it's aeP fresh install.  Been a while, but that's the general idea.  Works real well, and	 is quick.    Dave   -- s4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 2000 17:20:56 GMTr8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)- Subject: Re: Hobbyist vms 7.2 alpha questionsr6 Message-ID: <8hoklo$abo$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  . In article <393FBABF.8C4FB220@tsoft-inc.com>, , David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  E >On Alpha, you upgrade and install from the CD, using mostly the samebF >procedures.  At one point in the install, the question is asked aboutP >'PRESERVING' what's on the disk.  Choose this, and it's an upgrade, else it's aQ >fresh install.  Been a while, but that's the general idea.  Works real well, andm
 >is quick.   A bit more detail...  E If the target disk is an existing OpenVMS Alpha system disk, the the iE PRESERVE option will upgade OpenVMS on that disk.  If the target diskeG is a data disk only -- no OpenVMS on it -- then the PRESERE option will)G do a new installation of OpenVMS without initializing the disk. In thisj9 case you "preserve" all the non-ssytem files on the disk.m   --  K     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USAsF          (hammond@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 12:35:00 +0111t6 From: Rainer Sterzer <ai02@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de>2 Subject: LN15AC toner cartridge compatible to ...?< Message-ID: <009EB4CE.6D423224.4@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de>  K Who can give me infos to the compatibility of the LN15 to change the toner t* cartridge with non-original DEC-hardware. C Which other printer (e.g. from HP) needs the same toner cartridge? n Thanks Rainer   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 15:52:51 GMTL+ From: Paul Anderson <panderson@genicom.com>t6 Subject: Re: LN15AC toner cartridge compatible to ...?C Message-ID: <panderson-040908.11525708062000@news.bellatlantic.net>   D In article <009EB4CE.6D423224.4@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de>, Rainer 0 Sterzer <ai02@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de> wrote:  G > Who can give me infos to the compatibility of the LN15 to change the rF > toner cartridge with non-original DEC-hardware. Which other printer 0 > (e.g. from HP) needs the same toner cartridge?  A The DIGITAL Laser Printer LN15 and LN15+ have a Fujitsu engine.   F However, different brands of printers using the same engine require a I different key on the toner cartridge.  So, it is not likely that another fH brand of cartridge will fit into the LN15.  (A different key physically 8 prevents the cartridge from being put into the printer.)   Paul   --  "    Paul Anderson, DCPS Engineering"    GENICOM Corporation, Gardner MA   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:05:23 -0400& From: "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.ca> Subject: Re: Logging On As Root@4 Message-ID: <2EO%4.59$jN1.4813@wagner.videotron.net>  H When you talk about root dir, do you mean the personal directory for the
 root user?  K if so, a user's personal directory is defined as the value of the SYS$LOGINt logical name .   $ SET DEFAULT SYS$LOGIN:  = For the SYSTEM account, SYS$LOGIN equals SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSMGR]O     Syltremw  > Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com> wrote in messageC news:Pine.LNX.4.05.10006061607430.2476-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com...i' > On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Horse Nuts wrote:l >tF > > Ok, being a Compaq UNIX dude, how the hell do you logon as root in4 > > VMS?????? Also, how do I move to the root dir??? >e= > Well, to log in as root, you have to make a root account ;)c > E > Seriously, though, on VMS, the account you want is SYSTEM. (Be verys > careful!)v >nK > I have a friend who made a privelege-less "root" account on his vax, just  > to confuse people. >G@ > The "root" directory on any given device is [000000], or [0,0]G > (abbreviated).  Generally you won't need to change to this directory,iJ > since the only things that are kept there are subdirectories (of course)J > and thing that are maintained by the system (files that hold information > on disk structure, etc...) >t< > Do you mind if I ask whether this is work-related or play? >.J > > Thanks, I know this is a stupid question, but this is my first time at > > the VMS stuff....  > J > Good luck -- speaking as somebody who learned unix first, it's difficult6 > to get used to, but it has some very nice qualities. >t
 > Regards, >c > Chrisa >n > L ============================================================================ ===e@ > "My two cents" (http://rootworks.com/twocentsworth.cgi?128562)= > Christopher Smith(chriss@pubserv.com) Prgramer^W Programmern! > Prime Synergy of Champaign, IL.h' > ------------------------------------- K > "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes andoJ > weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes< > and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949L > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----a >a >@   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:06:07 +02006 From: "Martin Knoblauch" <martin.knoblauch@compaq.com>7 Subject: Re: Microsoft loses, www.compaq.com disappearst6 Message-ID: <8hnnq9$ru0$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  G yup, seems Bills revenge is upon us ... The DNS problem is reported ando under investigation.   Martin  ? "David Mathog" <mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu> wrote in messagen& news:8hmsh2$qj5@gap.cco.caltech.edu...L > Microsoft lost its court case, and now www.compaq.com does not even have aJ > DNS entry (18:15 PST).  Guess Microsoft was right, rule against them and. > the world as we know it comes tumbling down. >3I > But seriously folks, is it just the routing to us or has www.compaq.com # > really gone away for some reason?w >:	 > Thanks,o >h > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu @ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 2000 17:17:22 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)7 Subject: Re: Microsoft loses, www.compaq.com disappearse6 Message-ID: <8hokf2$acn$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  g In article <OFF21AE167.E377F4BD-ON882568F8.000A3518@HEALTHNET.COM>, Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes:.A :> ...www.compaq.com does not even have a DNS entry (18:15 PST).. : :>But seriously folks, is it just the routing to us or has3 :> www.compaq.com really gone away for some reason?  ..J :FWIW Dave, I'm seeing the same thing. However, www.openvms.digital.com is, :still there so all is right with the world!  E   There is/was a known DNS problem affecting certain accesses to the  F   compaq.com websites and certain paths to compaq.com email addresses.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 2000 17:15:50 +0100t. From: epping@babylon5.meteocon.nl (Rob Epping)2 Subject: mime processing utilities for VAX/VMS 5.58 Message-ID: <slrn8jve3q.kml.epping@babylon5.meteocon.nl>  
 Hello All,  E At our site we are using VAX/VMS 5.5 and UCX. Now we need to "unpack"s mime mail messages.bD I searched the net and found a package called "mpack" (acualy a portD of the u*x tool) but it is in C (and we don't have the compiler) and has a binary only for VMS 7.  @ Can anyone here point me to a place where i can find these tools for VMS 5.5?   Thanks in advance.   Regards,  
 Rob Epping -- dF ======================================================================/ Tel:    +31 - 317 - 423300	s-mail:	P.O. box 617i+ Fax:	+31 - 317 - 423164		6700 AP WageningenM3 MailTo: R.Epping@Meteo.NL	WWW: http://www.meteo.nl/i   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 2000 07:03:34 GMTg1 From: JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones)b6 Subject: Re: Multithreading and event flags limitation: Message-ID: <8hngg6$9n9$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  C In message <OF439CC442.C0A63577-ON882568F8.000B745B@HEALTHNET.COM>, &    Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes: > G >Background: I'm writing a multithreaded program using QIOW calls to donK >TCP/IP sends and receives. I'm using an asynch timer with a completion AST H >to cut these calls short if they take too long. I'm using the EFN$C_ENFL >value for the QIOW's event flag, and that's working fine. However, the docsI >say you can only use that with "W" calls (like QIOW) that have their own  >thread-local IOSBs.  K I don't know what docs you are reading, but mine merely says it is intended H for use with the wait form of services - there is no prohibition againstH usage with the non-wait forms.  In fact, it also explicitly says you canD use EFN$C_ENF in cases where you don't care about the event flag and used SYS$QIO as an example.   C >SYS$SETIMR isn't a "W" call, and doesn't take an IOSB, which to me I >indicates I can't use EFN$C_ENF, and have to reserve a unique event flag C >even though my code has no direct use for it. That would mean that L >regardless of my TQLM quota, I can't safely have more timers running than IJ >have event flags available. Is this the case, or is there some way around >it?  I You only need to reserve 1 event flag and have all your timers use it.  AgM pending timer entry isn't affected by another timer's expiration (or anythingn else) setting the event flag.-    < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929- Ohio State University        |      Internet:uL 140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  + Disclaimer: Dogs can't tell it's not bacon.r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 06:59:07 -0500e" From: Earl Lakia <lakia@ipact.com>6 Subject: Re: Multithreading and event flags limitation) Message-ID: <393F8A8B.3A7DF4AE@ipact.com>   G One can use ASTs.  Both timers and QIOs have AST capability.  One could.K then use maybe only two event flags, one for any timer and one for any QIO.aG Normally one uses some AST dependent parameter to keep things straight. I For QIOs, I normally use the status block plus some adjacent memory afterbE the status block to form some kind of structure (normally I store theb@ channel number, etc. in this area).  This same practice could be! used for the Timer AST parameter.0  L The main line application would have to browse all of the status blocks whenE the I/O completion event flag was triggered.  Anyway, might have somes? example code for ya somewhere.  Email me if you are interested.* -earl* --
 Earl D. Lakia*0 Senior Staff Engineer         Web: www.ipact.com4 Snail Mail:                   Email: lakia@ipact.com
 IPACT Inc.1 260 S. Campbell St.           Phone: 219-464-7212a Valparaiso, IN 46383  " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote:  H > Background: I'm writing a multithreaded program using QIOW calls to doL > TCP/IP sends and receives. I'm using an asynch timer with a completion ASTI > to cut these calls short if they take too long. I'm using the EFN$C_ENFyM > value for the QIOW's event flag, and that's working fine. However, the docs*J > say you can only use that with "W" calls (like QIOW) that have their own > thread-local IOSBs.  > D > SYS$SETIMR isn't a "W" call, and doesn't take an IOSB, which to meJ > indicates I can't use EFN$C_ENF, and have to reserve a unique event flagD > even though my code has no direct use for it. That would mean thatM > regardless of my TQLM quota, I can't safely have more timers running than I K > have event flags available. Is this the case, or is there some way aroundr > it?  >  > Shanen   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 06:46:15 -0400. From: "Bob Hassinger" <bob@sorry.no.spam.here>% Subject: Re: OpenVMS AND THE INTERNETa+ Message-ID: <8hntio$cag$1@bob.news.rcn.net>   9 Richard Jordan <rjordan@Mercury.mcs.net> wrote in messagee% news:8hln8n$1t7g$1@Mercury.mcs.net...  >n@ > > More on the book OpenVMS AND THE INTERNET and Digital Press: ...hJ > > Do you feel there's a market for a book on OpenVMS and apache, or some others  > > OpenVMS and Internet topics? > > G > Yes.  I would prefer a book with coverage of both Apache and OSU (and F > WASD?  Does it have enough usage to be worth covering?)  However, ifG > VMS Apache is different enough that the available unix books would bec> > of little value, then an apache specific book would be nice.  ...K > To be frank, the above (less Apache, which was not announced at the time)fF > was what I was hoping the original OpenVMS and the Internet book was > going to be about.  E I would sure like to see an OSU book.  OSU is a great package, but iteL suffers seriously from lack of documentation.  A good book would make it farJ more accessible.  It may be a bit early to be doing Apache for VMS.  ThereI are good Apache books available so the main need would be for VMS version  specific information.c  
 Bob Hassinger   
 Bob Hassinger    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 10:14:23 +0100tB From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>J Subject: Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire)* Message-ID: <393F63EF.3BC88C41@uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:  T > In article <8hk5sg$29i$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes: >TL > > Though not quite equal performance, since writes to the write-back cacheH > > (and reads from the controller cache, for that matter) take around aO > > millisecond (your own observation, IIRC) vs. well under 100 microseconds to3P > > the Unix system cache:  you'll cut your default-settings performance penaltyO > > from 10-to-1 or worse down to maybe around 2:1 (at least for writes; if younK > > can use VIOC for reads, they may be closer to equal), which changes thet5 > > perception from 'damn slow' to merely 'sluggish'.b > >  > E >         Good observation... but the Unix trick to its own cache for J >         a write-back cache isn't very reassuring if the box takes a hit.I >         The example I wrote about and am using and have used on several H >         different occasions, the write occurs to cache in two separateD >         controllers, hardly an issue of stability or lack thereof. >-  @ I am not sure why this keeps being repeated. On UNIX systems youE can choose to write through the cache or allow the cache to defer thesC writes and some applications may do both. A DBMS will write throughnG the cache for logs and data that needs to be written and not cached but.G at the same time may write async for temporary tables and other tables,d$ Sybase TEMPDB is an example of this.  - The point is you can choose either behaviour.l  I It is also worth noting that Solaris and I think all the other CommercialoJ UNIX OS's always write their meta data through the cache regardless of theI way the indevidual file or device is being written to. I don't think this  is the default case for Linux.  A From this discussion it would appear that UNIX really scores overr9 OpenVMS not for writes which anyway you can help using anSB Array with a mirrored NV cache but for reads. This is for a number= of reasons, the UNIX buffer cache is a unified read cache forl= all the apps running on the system, it does not have the same"> open file limits as OpenVMS and it does things like clustering and read-aheads by default.0  ; Incedentally this is not without its drawbacks and in olderb< versions of Solaris the buffer cache stealing pages from the4 apps running on the system could cause a performance problem.  < The other significant difference seems to be the maximum I/O> size. In Solaris for example large I/O requests to things like> SCSI and FC devices are broken up into 128K chunks by default,@ this default value however can be increased and typically is set; to 8MB for things like Oracle and Sybase. The OpenVMS limit'6 seems to be 64K which also seems to be the maximum I/O< size, Solaris will accept I/O requests which are larger than> 128K (if this is the default) but will fragment them into 128K; chunks which is not necessarely efficient hence the abilitye  to raise the maximum chunk size.   Regardsr Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architecto   ------------------------------  " Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 14:24:40 GMT9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)MJ Subject: Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire)+ Message-ID: <ICKV48CIn$B6@eisner.decus.org>   o In article <393F63EF.3BC88C41@uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:@  B > I am not sure why this keeps being repeated. On UNIX systems youG > can choose to write through the cache or allow the cache to defer theeE > writes and some applications may do both. A DBMS will write throughsI > the cache for logs and data that needs to be written and not cached but'I > at the same time may write async for temporary tables and other tables,.& > Sybase TEMPDB is an example of this. > / > The point is you can choose either behaviour.   B And someone else was telling us here that Unix always defaulted itE correctly -- to make different default decisions for the same programsE sounds like they were running Clairvoyant Unix rather than Solaris or"	 Tru64 :-)l  > > The other significant difference seems to be the maximum I/O@ > size. In Solaris for example large I/O requests to things like@ > SCSI and FC devices are broken up into 128K chunks by default,B > this default value however can be increased and typically is set= > to 8MB for things like Oracle and Sybase. The OpenVMS limit08 > seems to be 64K which also seems to be the maximum I/O> > size, Solaris will accept I/O requests which are larger than@ > 128K (if this is the default) but will fragment them into 128K= > chunks which is not necessarely efficient hence the abilityn" > to raise the maximum chunk size.  D VMS limits disk IO requests to 2**64 bytes (or 2**32 for those usingD the older $QIO system call).  $QIO is also used for non-disk devicesB most of which have a limit of 64K, or even smaller on a per-device0 basis (just how wide _is_ your terminal screen).  C But that is what is seen by the application programmer.  InternallynF there is the chunking you describe for disk transfers, and the defaultB is 64K for disk device drivers that have not declared a preference; (i.e., have left cell UCB$L_MAXBCNT zero).  The size of theN> chunking is under the control (by filling in that cell) of the; person who wrote the device driver, not the system manager,o< since the most relevant factors have to do with the hardware: capability of devices supported by that particular driver.  > If Oracle has 8 MB of data available, it can present it at the? system service interface, but the most efficient chunk size forw= delivering to that piece of hardware is decided by the drivert  with knowledge of that hardware.  < And yes, there seems to be an implicit maximum chunk size of; 4 billion bytes.  That could really take a long time if the-+ size of the I/O request was 2**64 bytes :-)4   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 13:13:04 +0100@  From: steven.reece@quintiles.comC Subject: Re: Part numbers for Qbus SCSI + ESDI controllers, anyone? > Message-ID: <802568F8.004332EA.00@qedilc01.qedi.quintiles.com>   John Malmberg commented:N >>>The KZQSA should work in your unit providing it is running at least VAX/VMSL 5.3, however I do not think that a VAXstation 3200 will be able to boot from it.<<<  N The KZQSA is supported only for CD-ROM and tape operations.  For disk the onlyK supported route from Compaq is (IIRC) a KFQSA and some form of DSSI to SCSIe5 controller (like the HSD05 for a single BA350 shelf).d   Steve.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 18:22:26 +0200e( From: Rainer Lehrig <lehrig@t-online.de>5 Subject: Qt2.1.0 GUI library now available on OpenVMSa+ Message-ID: <393FC842.6F7C3958@t-online.de>u  @ Qt is a C++ library for developing GUI applications and more ...> The special thing about Qt is that it is platform independent., It runs on most unix systems and on windows.9 Now that I have ported Qt to OpenVMS it also runs on VMS.h< You can get information about Qt on http://www.trolltech.comB Qt is the base for the KDesktopEnvironment (KDE) known from Linux.A I'am in contact with trolltech in order to support Qt for OpenVMS C officially. For this we need people willing to test Qt for OpenVMS. D Qt for OpenVMS is available under http://www.lehrig.de (click button	 service).hF It is a zip file containing a readme.txt and a backup saveset (33 MB).   Dr.-Ing. Rainer Lehrig mailto: lehrig@t-online.de   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 07:06:46 -0400 (EDT)=? From: "Carol4270223@pointecom.net" <Carol4270223@pointecom.net>eM Subject: SAVINGS ON DENTAL AND OPTICAL PLANS FOR YOU AND YOUR FAMILY (131238)e) Message-ID: <98659.46550@healthylife.com>r   Hello,  @ We work with a group of your local doctors and dentists and are C offering a Dental - Optical Plan that runs approximately $3 a week c; for an individual and $4 a week for the entire family with -# no limit to the number of children.,  : Would you like our office to furnish you with the details? Call Toll-Free   1-800-422-3057$ Refer to K500 To Receive This Offer.  1 *************************************************3/ We are linked to plenty of web sites that offer ' free subscriptions to our mailing list.t" You may JOIN or LEAVE this list at2 any time by following the simple instructions that& can be found at the end of this email.   You are on our mailing listl) because you have subscribed at one of our 8 associate web sites, sent us email or we have a previous online relationship.   Marketing Service Co.: Customer Service Departmentt1 *************************************************        This message is being sent to you in compliance with the proposed Federal legislation for commercial e-mail (S.1618-SECTION 301).  "Pursuant to Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618, further transmissions to you by the sender of this e-mail may be stopped at no cost to you by clicking mailto:gtrng@dcemail.com and placing REMOVE in the subject.  H ************************************************************************ 56839    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 09:20:00 -0300,1 From: "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com>  Subject: RE: system slowK Message-ID: <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A0246DB@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>h  I First use MONITOR SYSTEM to check if memory, CPU, IO etc is what is being K exhausted, from there follow the lines down.  i.e.  if CPU is exhausted uset MONITOR PROCESS/TOPCPU.t  I For more info HELP MONITOR or even better install DECamds on your system,e2 this is a very useful tool for this kind of stuff. - Darren   > ----------0 > From: 	Jim Kozlowski[SMTP:jkozlow1@elp.rr.com]) > Sent: 	Thursday, June 08, 2000 12:07 AMl > To: 	Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com > Subject: 	system slow  > * > We have an Alpha 200 running openVMS 6.1I > System running fine until 2 months ago...at that time we replaced a 1gbtK > drive with a 2gb drive (i do not know drive model off hand) new drive was  > not system disk.G > We added the disk space to accomodate a software upgrade which has uss8 > running two different version of synergy concurrently.J > It seems, that since that time, the system runs much slower. At times itJ > will suspend all activity for 20-30 seconds at a time. Processes will be > suspended.J > I need some troubleshooting help. What can I monitor to determine if the; > hesitation is disk or software or something else related.t > Thank youi > Jim K  >  >     F **********************************************************************C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential andtJ may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.M They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom theyfL are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copyingh of this message is prohibited.   Bank of BermudaiF **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 12:51:11 GMT-+ From: Jonas Lindholm <jlindholm@nyc.rr.com>  Subject: Re: system slow) Message-ID: <393F967A.7F776AF@nyc.rr.com>e  C Is highwater enabled on the new disk ? This can slow down write and J allocation of new files by starting writing erase pattern to new allocated space.G Do a show device/full <disk>. It will show you if highwater is enabled.mA You can disable it with the command set volume/nohighwater <disk>    /Jonas Lindholmo   Jim Kozlowski wrote:  * > We have an Alpha 200 running openVMS 6.1I > System running fine until 2 months ago...at that time we replaced a 1gbdK > drive with a 2gb drive (i do not know drive model off hand) new drive wase > not system disk.G > We added the disk space to accomodate a software upgrade which has us 8 > running two different version of synergy concurrently.J > It seems, that since that time, the system runs much slower. At times itJ > will suspend all activity for 20-30 seconds at a time. Processes will be > suspended.J > I need some troubleshooting help. What can I monitor to determine if the; > hesitation is disk or software or something else related.r > Thank youe > Jim Ke   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 2000 13:22:46 GMTh+ From: "labadie" <gerard.labadie@compaq.com>r Subject: Re: system slowC Message-ID: <01bfd154$c267bde0$521ebc10@w-glabadie.frq.cpqcorp.net>    Do a   $ monitor disk/item=alloH /item=queue will tell you if you this disk is heavily loaded (queue > 1)H /item=operation_rate will tell you how many I/O of less than 16 K you doD From the type of your disk, you know you should be able to do (e.g.)4 40 I/O per second with a queue_length of less than 1  7 May be your disk does not perform as well as it should.    Do a  
 $ mon sys I check the Cpu busy (is it always at 100 % ?) and the number of processes o in COM state   Does o $ sh dev /fu 'disk shows  highwater markingt   Regardse   Grard                    : Jim Kozlowski <jkozlow1@elp.rr.com> a crit dans l'article* <r5E%4.137$244.2520@typhoon.elp.rr.com>...* > We have an Alpha 200 running openVMS 6.1I > System running fine until 2 months ago...at that time we replaced a 1gb K > drive with a 2gb drive (i do not know drive model off hand) new drive wase > not system disk.G > We added the disk space to accomodate a software upgrade which has usv8 > running two different version of synergy concurrently.J > It seems, that since that time, the system runs much slower. At times itJ > will suspend all activity for 20-30 seconds at a time. Processes will be > suspended.J > I need some troubleshooting help. What can I monitor to determine if the; > hesitation is disk or software or something else related.a > Thank youx > Jim Kk >  >  >    ------------------------------  " Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 16:55:19 GMT* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) Subject: Re: system slow+ Message-ID: <+otseD2SwLk$@eisner.decus.org>   X In article <6L$nJg9RlTr8@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes:c > In article <r5E%4.137$244.2520@typhoon.elp.rr.com>, "Jim Kozlowski" <jkozlow1@elp.rr.com> writes:T+ >> We have an Alpha 200 running openVMS 6.1tJ >> System running fine until 2 months ago...at that time we replaced a 1gbL >> drive with a 2gb drive (i do not know drive model off hand) new drive was >> not system disk.sH >> We added the disk space to accomodate a software upgrade which has us9 >> running two different version of synergy concurrently.sK >> It seems, that since that time, the system runs much slower. At times it,K >> will suspend all activity for 20-30 seconds at a time. Processes will bec
 >> suspended.lK >> I need some troubleshooting help. What can I monitor to determine if theu< >> hesitation is disk or software or something else related. >> Thank you >> Jim K >> u >   ? 	This doesn't add much to the other thread and this was versiona= 	1.  Version 2 is currently lost to Deja.com.  It was easy ton; 	find as I was mistakingly referring to the "ticker" as theoG 	"tickler".  Also, this version didn't have in the "kinder" ticker thati> 	kicks in and quits trimming when free gets above 8 x FREEGOAL 	or so.   > 	Let us know what you discover about your performance problem.   				RobO  V ---   + Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:26:15 -0500 (EST)t  L         I got an idea to improve memory management.  Here is the scenario...L         currently I have 1 Gig and I get many processes using hefty WSEXTENTJ         as applications are large.  Mem gets down to 2 x FREEGOAL, ticklerG         comes along and tickles and now I have MWAIT as mucho pages areOE         being written to backing store.  Of course very shortly folksDO         fault back in, free memory slinks back down to 2 x FREEGOAL, etc.  Thisd         is annoying because:  9                         1) CPU is being chewed by SWAPPER -                         2) Cycle is repeatingrO                         3) Long Dormant folks in applications are still holdingP>                            onto (in several cases) many pages.  K         Looking at 3 makes me want to swap them out but I can't force that.-N         Raising LONGWAIT to 300 is helping a bit overall but is still getting >         me.   [This last statement is misleading, if a processF 	hasn't performened any activity in LONGWAIT seconds (default 30) thenA 	it is considered idle.  By raising to 300 seconds, this helps tosC 	sort out the truly idle from the people that stopped to take a siph@ 	of their coffee.  Also, this isn't examined until the "troller"A 	comes into play at 1 x FREEGOAL pages free so is not an accuratem 	statement.]  @         So, why not solve 3 by adding a new bit to MMG_CTLFLAGS?  3         Pay attention to the new bit 2 below . . .    
 Parameters     MMG_CTLFLAGS  F        MMG_CTLFLAGS is a bit mask used to enable and disable proactiveG        memory reclamation mechanisms. The following values are defined:s          Bit    Descriptiona  ?        0      Reclamation enabled by trimming from periodically-G               executing, but otherwise idle processes. This occurs when@G               the size of the free list drops below two times FREEGOAL.o  D        1      Reclamation enabled by outswapping processes that haveE               been idle for longer than LONGWAIT seconds. This occursOB               when the size of the free list drops below FREEGOAL.  D        2      Reclamation enabled by outswapping processes that haveE               been idle for longer than LONGMIN minutes.  This occursmN               when the size of the free list drops below three times FREEGOAL.  &        3-7    Reserved for future use.         G And the associated LONGMIN and MMG_CTLFLAGS at my site would be set to:t   $ mcr sysgen show longminnH Parameter Name            Current    Default     Min.     Max.     Unit  Dynamic H --------------            -------    -------    -------  -------   ----  -------nL LONGMIN                      1200      65535          5    65535   Mins    D   $ mcr sysgen show mmg_ctlflagsH Parameter Name            Current    Default     Min.     Max.     Unit  DynamicrH --------------            -------    -------    -------  -------   ----  -------,M MMG_CTLFLAGS                    7          7         0       255 Bit-mask   De  H         In other words, anyone idle for 20 hours is probably out for theG         day... swap their backside out and give me that 10000+ pages soeO         I don't have to tickle.  If things really get tight, tweek LONGWAIT to  3         60 minutes, resetting to 20 hours at 6 p.m.a           Comments?o  #                                 Rob=   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 07:53:54 -0700s? From: Mike Price <mike.priceNOmiSPAM@littlewoods.co.uk.invalid>M Subject: Re: system slow9 Message-ID: <02eeb67c.d594ab33@usw-ex0105-037.remarq.com>-  @ The above seem like very good suggestions - but as the hangs are@ so long and you have just replaced a disk check whether the disk; is going into mount verify state when the hang occurs (showt< device d). We have had problems with defective disks that do@ this and anything that is accessing the disk will hang while the@ system tries to get the disk back - normally 30 seconds or so if" the disk will  actually come back.A Also check the error log - any disk errors should be logged there    Hope this helpst  
 Mike Price  L * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *G The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!h   ------------------------------  " Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 14:26:21 GMT/ From: "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu>  Subject: Tcl/Tk for OpenVMS?) Message-ID: <393F66BD.3FD9EF12@uiowa.edu>   F Does anyone know about any effort (or past effort) to evaluate or evenG implement the Tool Command Language (Tcl) on an Alpha/OpenVMS platform?d   Thanks! 
 Rick Dyson -- SH Richard L. Dyson                                    rick-dyson@uiowa.eduH  _   _      _____                http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/H | | | |    |_   _|   Systems Analyst                     O: 319/335-1879H | | | | of   | |     The University of Iowa            FAX: 319/335-17536 | \_/ |     _| |_    Department of Physics & Astronomy-  \___/     |_____|   Iowa City, IA 52242-1479e   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 2000 17:25:20 +0200r* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)  Subject: Re: Tcl/Tk for OpenVMS?* Message-ID: <393fbae0$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  [ In article <393F66BD.3FD9EF12@uiowa.edu>, "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> writes:tG >Does anyone know about any effort (or past effort) to evaluate or evenbH >implement the Tool Command Language (Tcl) on an Alpha/OpenVMS platform?  D In earlier times, there used to be some VMS port of TCL/TK (7.5/4.1) somewhere on   	http://mango.rsmas.miami.edu/   Don't know, what the status is.l   -- d< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888A< FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netF <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 17:19:46 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>0  Subject: Re: Tcl/Tk for OpenVMS?) Message-ID: <393FB991.E9089E4E@gtech.com>h   "Richard L. Dyson" wrote:fH > Does anyone know about any effort (or past effort) to evaluate or evenI > implement the Tool Command Language (Tcl) on an Alpha/OpenVMS platform?a   TCL works fine on VMS !w  
 See links at:   1 http://www.hhs.dk/~arne/vms/cgiscripts_lang.htmlx   ; I even think there are a VMS TCL mail-list. See address at:r  + http://www.hhs.dk/~arne/vms/vms_forum.htmlxr   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 16:36:31 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>t  Subject: Re: Tcl/Tk for OpenVMS?) Message-ID: <393FBD7F.1013F1E7@bbc.co.uk>   F There is a version on the OpenVMS Internet Tools CD from several yearsA back. It works but is not network aware so no use for my intended" application.  J There is a Multinet port, I beleive by someone called Angel Li (?), around on the web last time I looked.w  J I never yet found a network aware UCX compatible port, but I havn't lookedC for a few months. I would expect one to be announced here if it wasm
 available.  F Sorry, my news-server no longer carries VMSNET groups so I can't reply there.   HTHt   "Richard L. Dyson" wrote:   H > Does anyone know about any effort (or past effort) to evaluate or evenI > implement the Tool Command Language (Tcl) on an Alpha/OpenVMS platform?r >b	 > Thanks!. > Rick Dyson > --J > Richard L. Dyson                                    rick-dyson@uiowa.eduI >  _   _      _____               http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/$J > | | | |    |_   _|   Systems Analyst                     O: 319/335-1879J > | | | | of   | |     The University of Iowa            FAX: 319/335-17538 > | \_/ |     _| |_    Department of Physics & Astronomy/ >  \___/     |_____|   Iowa City, IA 52242-1479i   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uku  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of. MedAS or the BBC.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 17:50:22 +0100t- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>r  Subject: Re: Tcl/Tk for OpenVMS?( Message-ID: <393FCECD.EBD49A4@bbc.co.uk>   Arne Vajhj wrote:   > "Richard L. Dyson" wrote:rJ > > Does anyone know about any effort (or past effort) to evaluate or evenK > > implement the Tool Command Language (Tcl) on an Alpha/OpenVMS platform?k >v > TCL works fine on VMS !u >b > See links at:  >p3 > http://www.hhs.dk/~arne/vms/cgiscripts_lang.htmlxf >l  H Arne, you are a star, I'm downloading the UCX compatible TCL 8 kits now.@ Lets hope they don't require too many patch kits like Java does.     --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukt  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofp MedAS or the BBC.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 07:48:04 -0700e? From: Mike Price <mike.priceNOmiSPAM@littlewoods.co.uk.invalid>n Subject: Re: tcp/ip printing9 Message-ID: <0b2bee5f.d40eb825@usw-ex0105-037.remarq.com>r  = We have had a lot of success using LPD to print on IP enabled*? printers all over our network - but sometimes there are funniesh  < Can you please post the details of how your queue is defined> (i.e. telnetsym or lpd or both or something else) (and version! of the IP stuff may help as well.y  = p.s. you will definatly have to have a gateway defined if theb+ printer is not in the same area as the hostn< e.g. if the the host address is 100.1.1.1 and the printer is' 200.1.1.1 (sorry if that seems obvious)6@ You would need to get the gateway address from someone who knows> it unless you can use gated or something (we are on UCX 4.2 so9 we can't use gated yet so I can't really comment on that)B      L * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *G The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!e   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:30:40 -0400% From: "Andrew" <andrew@proscient.com>e Subject: Re: tcp/ip printing4 Message-ID: <uYO%4.433$eU1.6960@weber.videotron.net>   The queue is defined as follow:m  B $ init/start/queu/on="192.10.10.98:515" /processor=tcpip$telnetsym Xerox$printA  % port 515 is hardcoded in the printer.c   The server is 192.10.10.1v  . It's OpenVms 7.2 with tcp/ip services, not UCX  # Operator.log says "invalid device".m   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 2000 17:43:08 +0200o* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: tcp/ip printing* Message-ID: <393fbf0c$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  \ In article <uYO%4.433$eU1.6960@weber.videotron.net>, "Andrew" <andrew@proscient.com> writes:  >The queue is defined as follow: >eC >$ init/start/queu/on="192.10.10.98:515" /processor=tcpip$telnetsyms >Xerox$print >p& >port 515 is hardcoded in the printer. >  >The server is 192.10.10.1 > / >It's OpenVms 7.2 with tcp/ip services, not UCXh > $ >Operator.log says "invalid device".   TCP Port 515 is the LPD Server.*H I don't think, that your particular (XEROX) printer has a stream port onE TCP Port 515. Better check your printer (server) manual again for thes printing method(s).o  K Either, your printerserver has a stream port (like TCP Port 9100-9102 on HPuJ JetDirect or 2301-2308 on DECservers or ...) or you use LPR/LPD instead ofJ stream and change the queue definiton appropriately (see the TCPIP manual)  0 Must be something similar to /PROC=TCPIP$LPD_SMB  + btw: I'd use /AUTOSTART_ON= instead of /ON=f   HIHe   -- s< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888-< FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netF <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------   Date: 8 Jun 2000 17:27:35 GMT># From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edua Subject: Re: tcp/ip printing+ Message-ID: <8hol27$fpf$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>   N In article <393f23f2.30263582@nntp.hip.cam.org>, bab@hotmail.com (bab) writes: >Hi all, >tA >got a problem last weekend, I installed tcp/ip services on alphad- >Openvms 7.2. so decnet IV and tcp/ip are up.  >e
 >problem 1 > C >There is a xerox printer on the lan defined ip. I can ping it, buttK >print queue remain starting. Do I have to enable routing? If so, should ityE >be gated or routing (it is connected to internet thru a firewall) ? s  G most likely yes.  I don't know which is better under the circumstances..  L >Is there a port setup I am missing? I used tcpip$ldr_smb.exe as processor. ) >Tried with dcps, it did not work either.i   If you haven't already try   $ mcr TCPIP$LPRSETUP.EXE;1   add   E give the name of a local uncreated queue for the que plus any aliasesr. that you want for that que as you are prompted   remote s  6 give the ip address of the printer for the remote host  G read the documentation of the printer for the name of the remote queue.t  . I did this and can now print/que=localquename.  ; my printer is a tektronix 740 and is not behind a firewall.h  	 Good lucko Robert   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 08:52:03 GMTr0 From: carlini@true.lkg.dec.com (Antonio Carlini)% Subject: Re: vaxstation LED meanings?s* Message-ID: <8hnm7o$s60@usenet.pa.dec.com>  P In article <393E7BD5.7578F44A@hsc.vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu> wrote:@ >just off my mind, will the brown "thing" plug straight into the >motherboard???? >  >just wondering..w >   M I presume not. Remember that the connector on the motherboard is essentially cL two SCSI connectors rolled into one. The brown "thing" is just a terminator  (for a single SCSI bus).   Antonioa  I Antonio Carlini                            Mail: carlini@true.lkg.dec.com # DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS Engineeringa6 COMPAQ                                     Reading, UK   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 22:55:44 -0700s9 From: tforsyth <ted.forsythNOteSPAM@amcor.com.au.invalid>  Subject: RE: VMS Employment????v9 Message-ID: <0e198daa.1f0a279a@usw-ex0105-040.remarq.com>n   Goku,   @ If you're anywhere near Melbourne, I can probably point you to a? job that'll be there for the next three to four years at least. = Problem is that you'll also need to be willing to learn a bit-# about HP/UX, DG/UX and AIX as well.9  : I personally believe the best administrators have grown up> through operations (I'm biased...) and I know where there's an> administrator's job about to come up for grabs (I'm moving...)  	 See ya...)   Ted.    L * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *G The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 09:29:11 +0100i2 From: Ashley Shepherd <ashley.shepherd@virgin.net>Y Subject: Re: Windows NT hosted Uiltity that can read RMS index fles or VMS Backup formattr8 Message-ID: <askujs0ej920n9adfu5b2vdvv149dlqokc@4ax.com>   Hi,g  F As your system seems to be so critical, do you have data shadowed?  ItE would seem sensible to have this anyway, given that 10Gb disks are so  cheap these daysB At one site I worked on the system required 100% uptime . We had 3F shadow members in each sets running (In this case Oracle, but the same@ principal applies) a mission critical database.  At the requiredF backup time, we shutdown the database, dropped out one complete set ofC data from the shadow set, and brought the database back online withmC only 2 members in the shadow set.  We then mounted the 3 members as < standard mounted disks, backed them up, dismounted them, andF re-introdiced them back into the shadow set, so that we then had total resilience again.v  B I believe that this principal could be applied in your case.  I amE assuming that the reason that you don't have enough overnight time ism@ that you have to wait for the backups to complete before you canD convert the data.  using this method, the backup AND data conversionD can take place simultaneously.  Given that one job is I/O intensive,E and the other predominently CPU intensive, you should be able to make  good use of your resources.o   Regardsr     Ashley      I >We are attempting to move at 10 G of data in RMS indexed data files on aeM >nightly basis from an Alpha to an SQL database on NT (Win2K).  One method iseG >to convert the files to sequential, move them and then load them.  The < >problem is that we do not have the time on a nightly basis.L >If we had a utility that could read VMS Backup and also understand RMS dataG >structures we could perform the conversion on the NT machine.  The VMScE >machine is for production and must be available as much as possible.i >tI >We have considered ODBC, but it takes too much time.  Using FTP requiressM >that the files not be open by any VMS application (and they still need to bes) >converted from Indexed for SQL to load).s >h >Anyone know of any solutions? >d6 >***************************************************** >Ashley Shepherd i >Consultancy Servicest% >email to  ashley.shepherd@virgin.netR6 >*****************************************************   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.319 ************************