1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 18 Jun 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 339       Contents: Alpha DEC 2000-300 (Jensen?) Re: Autogen > Re: Canadian Association of Compaq Users Symposium rescheduled> Re: Canadian Association of Compaq Users Symposium rescheduled Re: Disk Size in OpenVMS 7.1 Re: Disk Size in OpenVMS 7.1. Re: Disk taking itself offline during install?. Re: Disk taking itself offline during install? Re: Download this freeware* Re: Files-11 ODS-2 Readability for FreeBSD Re: Fun VMS Facts? Re: GNU-CC on VAX  Re: Help re: 4000 500  Hotmail 2 Re: How to acquire a hobbyists version of CMS/MMS?> Installing OpenVMS on VAX 3100 30/40: System Password problems Re: Intermec Barcode IP printer  Re: Intermec Barcode IP printer ! Low Carbs WORK! Lose Weight FAST!  Re: MVII heat output Re: MVII heat output Re: MVII heat output# Netscape v3.03 and Time Calculation . Re: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clusters. Re: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clusters. Re: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clusters. Re: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clusters. Re: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clusters9 Re: ramdisk vs. file cache, and the winner is, file cache  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel? M Why I mess Digital Review: was RE: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clusters P Re: Why I mess Digital Review: was RE: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems cluster  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 11:33:21 -0400 5 From: "Adrian Lumsden" <A.Lumsden@spamtrap.xdt.co.uk> % Subject: Alpha DEC 2000-300 (Jensen?) F Message-ID: <642A954DD517D411B20C00508BCF23B0012D411B@mail.sauder.com>  6 I have just been given a bare DEC 2000 (PB22h-CX) that% has/had OSF on it (which won't boot).   2 It has 64MB RAM and an RZ26 disc and RRD43 CD-ROM.  7 I am having troubles with booting the Alpha OpenVMS o/s 6 CD, both 6.2 and 7.2-1. Both of the output the OpenVMS< Version xxx message followed by a copyright notice and then:  &     Installing required known files...     Configuring devices...  2 and then an OpenVMS Alpha Operator Console message: appears at the bottom of the screen. The CD activity light. continues to flash for a while and then stops.  ; If I hit return a few times the CD activity light flashes a 8 few times and then stays off. I have the impression that# it was waiting for some user input.   5 Does anybody know how to start up one of these things 8 using a VT420 (ono) as a console device?  I suspect that5 I have some problem with the graphics card / drivers.   0 It looks as though the graphics card is a Compaq9 QVision 1024/E. I have tried using the EISA Configuration > Utility (ECU) to look at the configuration but it will not run correctly. It reports:  2     Error: Device error. Press any key to continue  5 I have no manuals and a quick trawl on the web didn't  turn up very much.   regards,   Adrian --( Adrian Lumsden, XDT Computer Systems, UK" A dot Lumsden at xdt dot co dot uk   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 02:03:00 -0400 9 From: tforsyth <ted.forsythNOteSPAM@amcor.com.au.invalid>  Subject: Re: AutogenF Message-ID: <642A954DD517D411B20C00508BCF23B0012D354F@mail.sauder.com>   Shawn,  ; Yes, savparams to setparams will set the system ready for a > reboot (only specify feedback if it's been up less than 24 hrs1 and you _need_ feedback from the running system).   @ It'll also run a genfiles phase, so be prepared for some disk to; disapear as that'll create new page, swap and dump files if  needed.   @ In which case, please note that SETPARAMS only needs SYSPRV, but GENFILES also needs CMKRNL...    Hope it helps...   Ted.  L * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *G The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 12:07:34 -0400 * From: Art Rice <arice.NOcSPAM@ue.itug.org>G Subject: Re: Canadian Association of Compaq Users Symposium rescheduled F Message-ID: <642A954DD517D411B20C00508BCF23B0012D3564@mail.sauder.com>  C On Mon, 12 Jun 2000 23:27:18 GMT, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam  (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  _ >In article <skaevqj9h5167@corp.supernews.com>, "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> writes: F >> Larry Kilgallen wrote in message <6iJNoVN1Cj$2@eisner.decus.org>... >>> ... @ >>>From Canada, however, the complaints have continued unabated.= >>>There was apparently a clearly named individual at CACU to ? >>>contact, and no reported success stories at getting into the  >>>VMS hobbyist plan.  >>> ...  >>  D >> I was able to get the Hobbyist licenses using my old DECUS Canada; >> membership number so that is at least one success story.  > E >Thank you.  The reports of success seem to be made less eagerly than  >those of failure. > F >> As a side note, are there any DECUS groups in the world that chargeG >> money for membership? Was the Canadian DECUS group the only one that I >> charged membership fees when it died? I was going to ask about the old  > @ >The US DECUS chapter had a voluntary higher level of membership> >lately that required a fee.  It may have gone away. DECUServe? >formerly had a fee, but as I understand the cost of collecting  >it overwhelmed the revenue. > I >> "Canadian Tandem Users Group" but I went back to read Joseph's note to B >> make sure I had the name correct. In his note he said "I am theA >> current President for the Canadian Tandem Users Group, and the E >> Director of Finance for the Canadian Association of Compaq Users." F >> Does that mean that Tandem still has an user group? I was under theG >> impression that both DECUS and CTUG had both been killed to form the  >> new CACU????  > A >Not specific to Canada, but my impression is that DECUS and ITUG @ >have sufficiently different cultures and needs that there is no$ >simple way to just make them one.  B ITUG is self supporting through the members whereas DECUS receivedA their support through DEC/Compaq.  Individual membership fees are A $150.  If that were lowered ITUG would be depending on Compaq for F financial assistance and Compaq would be giving direction to ITUG.  AsC a separate entity, ITUG actually has the ability to put pressure on F Tandem/Compaq and let them know what the users actually want and need.  : On the other hand, Compaq held the purse strings of DECUS.  C As far as different cultures,  I believe that less today than I did > three years ago.  Except for the Fab plants and some real-time9 installations,  OpenVMS and NSK are used in much the same E environments,  Finance, Telco, Health Care, etc..  And in some cases, B side by side.  Who would have thought 10 years ago that over 1,000E Tandem processors would be utilized to handle e-mail at a single site F for a single ISP? (a job normally handled by UNIX)  Both platforms areE expensive, (you get what you pay for), both are realiable and proven. A Applications for either are expensive and have expensive training B courses.  At least VAX/VMS/OpenVMS was taught and utilized in many; colleges and universities.  Maybe that's where the cultural  differences still exist.   >ITUG, for instance, has their@ >yearly symposium in San Jose, and I presume that is to maximize# >participation by Tandem engineers.      --  
 Art Rice   ** # Special Data Processing Corporation & --------------------------------------' All opinions expressed are mine and do  % not reflect the views of my employer.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 19:27:18 -0400 9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) G Subject: Re: Canadian Association of Compaq Users Symposium rescheduled F Message-ID: <642A954DD517D411B20C00508BCF23B0012D3510@mail.sauder.com>  ^ In article <skaevqj9h5167@corp.supernews.com>, "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> writes:E > Larry Kilgallen wrote in message <6iJNoVN1Cj$2@eisner.decus.org>...  >> ...? >>From Canada, however, the complaints have continued unabated. < >>There was apparently a clearly named individual at CACU to> >>contact, and no reported success stories at getting into the >>VMS hobbyist plan. >> ... > C > I was able to get the Hobbyist licenses using my old DECUS Canada : > membership number so that is at least one success story.  D Thank you.  The reports of success seem to be made less eagerly than those of failure.   E > As a side note, are there any DECUS groups in the world that charge F > money for membership? Was the Canadian DECUS group the only one thatH > charged membership fees when it died? I was going to ask about the old  ? The US DECUS chapter had a voluntary higher level of membership = lately that required a fee.  It may have gone away. DECUServe > formerly had a fee, but as I understand the cost of collecting it overwhelmed the revenue.   H > "Canadian Tandem Users Group" but I went back to read Joseph's note toA > make sure I had the name correct. In his note he said "I am the @ > current President for the Canadian Tandem Users Group, and theD > Director of Finance for the Canadian Association of Compaq Users."E > Does that mean that Tandem still has an user group? I was under the F > impression that both DECUS and CTUG had both been killed to form the > new CACU????  @ Not specific to Canada, but my impression is that DECUS and ITUG? have sufficiently different cultures and needs that there is no @ simple way to just make them one.  ITUG, for instance, has their? yearly symposium in San Jose, and I presume that is to maximize " participation by Tandem engineers.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 11:53:02 -0400  From: x86 <x86@libertysurf.fr>% Subject: Re: Disk Size in OpenVMS 7.1 F Message-ID: <642A954DD517D411B20C00508BCF23B0012D411E@mail.sauder.com>  " Thank you very much for your help.  J Below is what I got. Am I correct to say I have one disk of 4.3 Gb on that machine? Thank you again for your help.        L Device                  Device           Error    Volume         Free  Trans Mnt L  Name                   Status           Count     Label        Blocks Count Cnt L BLOL1$DKA0:             Mounted              0  AXPVMSSYS       411381   876 1 L BLOL1$DKA100:           Mounted              0  USER            602082     1 1 . BLOL1$DKA400:           Online wrtlck        0. BLOL1$DVA0:             Online               0 $ sh device blol1$dka0 /full  M Disk BLOL1$DKA0:, device type DEC RZ1CB-CS, is online, mounted, file-oriented F     device, shareable, available to cluster, error logging is enabled.  <     Error count                    0    Operations completed 619815181     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC  [SYSTEM]0     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W ;     Reference count              452    Default buffer size  512 9     Total blocks             8380080    Sectors per track  113 ;     Total cylinders             3708    Tracks per cylinder  20  >     Volume label         "AXPVMSSYS"    Relative volume number 0 9     Cluster size                   9    Transaction count  876 =     Free blocks               411381    Maximum files allowed  4190043     Extend quantity                5    Mount count  1 2     Mount status              System    Cache name "_BLOL1$DKA0:XQPCACHE"F     Extent cache size             64    Maximum blocks in extent cache 41138 H     File ID cache size            64    Blocks currently in extent cache 1827D     Quota cache size               0    Maximum buffers in FCP cache 10300     Volume owner UIC           [1,1]    Vol Prot S:RWCD,O:RWCD,G:RWCD,W:RWCD   N   Volume Status:  subject to mount verification, protected subsystems enabled,  =       file high-water marking, write-through caching enabled.    $ sh device blol1$dka100 /full  A Disk BLOL1$DKA100:, device type DEC RZ1CB-CA, is online, mounted, 
 file-oriented F     device, shareable, available to cluster, error logging is enabled.  <     Error count                    0    Operations completed 2876408 1     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC  [SYSTEM]0     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,W ;     Reference count                1    Default buffer size  512 9     Total blocks             8380080    Sectors per track  113 ;     Total cylinders             3708    Tracks per cylinder  20  >     Volume label              "USER"    Relative volume number 0 9     Cluster size                   9    Transaction count  1 =     Free blocks               602082    Maximum files allowed  4190043     Extend quantity                5    Mount count  1 2     Mount status              System    Cache name "_BLOL1$DKA0:XQPCACHE"F     Extent cache size             64    Maximum blocks in extent cache 60208 H     File ID cache size            64    Blocks currently in extent cache 53793 D     Quota cache size               0    Maximum buffers in FCP cache 10300     Volume owner UIC        [SYSTEM]    Vol Prot S:RWCD,O:RWCD,G:RWCD,W:RWCD   I   Volume Status:  subject to mount verification, file high-water marking,  write-       back caching enabled.        Yuri Ermakov wrote:    > > Hi,  > > / > > I am new at openVMS and would like to know:  > > H > > 1. which commands I shall use for displaying the hard drive complete	 > > size,  >  >     show device d " >     show device <disk_name>/full > L > > 2. which commands I shall use for displaying the harware configuration & > > the memory size  >  >     show memory /full/all  >     analize/system > J > > 3. is there any place on Internet that provides a complete list of VMS > > commands > > and usefull books about VMS  > / > http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/index.html  >  > >  > > Thank you for your help. > >  > >  > >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 17:14:48 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> % Subject: Re: Disk Size in OpenVMS 7.1 ) Message-ID: <394B95E8.66C5F7BF@gtech.com>   
 x86 wrote:F > 1. which commands I shall use for displaying the hard drive complete > size,    $ SHOW DEV D /FULL   (1 block = 512 byte)  J > 2. which commands I shall use for displaying the harware configuration &  
 $ SHOW CPU   ?    > the memory size   
 $ SHOW MEM  H > 3. is there any place on Internet that provides a complete list of VMS
 > commands   $ HELP   > and usefull books about VMS   * http://www.levitte.org/~ava/vms_book.htmlx   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 01:33:39 -0500 ' From: Bill Bradford <mrbill@mrbill.net> 7 Subject: Re: Disk taking itself offline during install? . Message-ID: <20000618013339.B22266@mrbill.net>  ? On Sun, Jun 18, 2000 at 12:20:01AM -0400, David A Froble wrote: O > Several possibilities.  Invalid configuration/termination of the SCSI bus.  A N > bad disk drive.  Other possibilities, but those would be the first place I'd > look.  > What types of disks?  G I've tried both a Seagate ST11200N and a ST15150N (1.2gig, 4.2gig) with  the same results.   : > What are the SCSI IDs for each disk, and the controller?  K Conroller is ID 6, CD-ROM drive is ID 4.  I've tried the following configs:    (all disks external)  + VAX-VLC	-> ST11200N -> CD-ROM -> TERMINATOR $  ID6         ID0        ID4           + VAX-VLC -> ST15150N -> CD-ROM -> TERMINATOR   ID6         ID2        ID4   + VAX-VLC -> CD-ROM -> ST15150N -> TERMINATOR   ID6         ID4        ID2   + VAX-VLC -> CD-ROM -> ST11200N -> TERMINATOR   ID6         ID4        ID0   @ Both HDs were each tried in 2 different external enclosures, and@ with two different sets of Centronics SCSI cables.  All external@ SCSI devices were unterminated; I terminated the SCSI bus with a Centronics SCSI terminator.    I also tried this config:    (HD inernal)  4 VAX-VLC -> INTERNAL ST11200N -> CD-ROM -> TERMINATOR$  ID6             ID0             ID4  5 Tried the CD-ROM in two different enclosures as well.   ! > How is the SCSI bus terminated?   : At the end, via a centronics-connector SCSI-II terminator.   > What type of VAX/Alpha?    VAX 4000-VLC, 16mb.   > With the 1.2gig HD internal, I can get farther than I did last= time - here's what its done the past two times I've tried it:   *     Restoring OpenVMS library save set ...1 %BACKUP-I-STARTVERIFY, starting verification passu  2+     Restoring OpenVMS optional save set ...0; %BACKUP-I-READYREAD, mount volume 1 on _DKA400: for readingo Enter "YES" when ready: YESl9 %BACKUP-I-NEXTVOL, volume 1 mounted - operation continueshA %BACKUP-F-OPENIN, error opening DKA400:[000000]VMS072.D; as input F %SYSTEM-I-MOUNTVER, DKA0: is offline.  Mount verification in progress.   And, it sits and hangs.   D Thanks for any suggestions you may have.  I'm hoping the SCSI bus onE this system isnt messed up (I mean, everything up to this point workseE *perfectly*, and I was able to install NetBSD the other day off cdrom D without a problem) - but the only HDs I have available to work with  are these two Seagates.e   Bill   -- o) +-------------------\ /-----------------+h) | Bill Bradford      |  www.sunhelp.org |h) | mrbill@mrbill.net  |   www.decvax.org |t) | Austin, Texas USA  |    www.pdp11.org | ) +-------------------/ \-----------------+t   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 12:12:58 -0700l- From: David R Barnes <dbproductions@juno.com>l7 Subject: Re: Disk taking itself offline during install?c: Message-ID: <20000618.121325.832.1.dbproductions@juno.com>  D On Sat, 17 Jun 2000 22:16:32 -0500 Bill Bradford <mrbill@MRBILL.NET> writes:uG > I finally got media (and yes, the VMS Hobbyist license allows you to O > freelyD > copy OS media from others), got the install started, and ran into  > thisB > problem.  Replaced the HD, and I still get the problem with the  > second HDa
 > as well. >  > Here's what happens: > @ > * Enter name of drive holding the OpenVMS distribution media: 	 > DKA400:85 > * Is the OpenVMS media ready to be mounted? [N] YESvA > %SYSTEM-I-MOUNTVER, DKA200: is offline.  Mount verification in b > progress.h > @ > Or, the system will properly mount the CD-ROM drive/media, andB > give me the DKA200: offline message while its extracting OpenVMS > library files, for instance. > D > Any suggestion of why this might be happening?  When it does, I've@ > waited for up to 20 minutes before giving up and rebooting the > box (via the power switch).m >  > BillE I have experienced this on my own 2 VLC's AND my vaxstation 4000/60. aE From what I can determine, there is SOMETHING in the scsi firmware ontI these machines that does NOT like a NON-DEC drive , be it tape or disk(my H 4000/60 complained the same way when I had a python dat attached and didG the install).  The funny thing is, if I remove the non dec tape drive ,uC the install will work fine.  In the case of the VLC where I tried a E seagate drive, I removed it and bought a RZ26L for $50.00 instead.  IeG then installed the seagate in my 3100 and did an install to it , put itu: back into the VLC and it was ok... figure that one out???    		David Barnes         David R Barnes dbproductions@juno.com3 =-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-c# Netbsd 1.3 / Linux / Unix, VMS guruL  @ ________________________________________________________________( YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!% Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!m? Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:R  http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 00:21:26 -0700s: From: Sandro Polato <polatoNOpoSPAM@igi.pd.cnr.it.invalid># Subject: Re: Download this freewares9 Message-ID: <00282bed.3f421dfa@usw-ex0102-014.remarq.com>e    I noticed a mistake in the URLs.   The correct links are :e   See the online presentation at:e  http://itre.com/mf/overview.html  3 Download the unlimited freeware version for VAX at:   http://itre.com/mf/download.html  1 Download the tree months demo version for AXP at: $ http://itre.com/mf/download_axp.html  
 Sandro Polatoi polato@igi.pd.cnr.it      7 Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.  Up to 100 minutes free!- http://www.keen.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 23:34:15 -0400r, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>3 Subject: Re: Files-11 ODS-2 Readability for FreeBSDDF Message-ID: <642A954DD517D411B20C00508BCF23B0012D3543@mail.sauder.com>  ; In article <3945A3B8.1D189D16@apl.jhu.edu>, Chuck McCrobie l <mccrobi@apl.jhu.edu> wrote:  
 ><sarcasm on>u [mild rant deleted]W ><sarcasm off>  J That doesn't sound like sarcasm; it sounds like a statement of position.  F Let me clue you, from my POV and apparently others: if you want to do H this, do it.  Don't expect to make money off it directly.  While you're  at it, try doing ODS-5.   H As far as I can figure, the only way to "make money" off Open Source is E to get a really great rep from the quality of your code and get jobs l	 that way.a   -- m Howard S Shubs, the Denim Adepta   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 02:25:13 -0400m' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>. Subject: Re: Fun VMS Facts?t( Message-ID: <8ihpp6$94c$1@pyrite.mv.net>  F We'll only give it a rest when people indicate by their responses thatF they've understood what's previously been presented rather than simply jerked their knee (again).  K 1) Somewhere in this discussion I provided a reference of a (major) account.C that switched their *existing* VMS application to Tru64 because theeJ difference in file system performance was sufficiently dramatic to justify
 that move.  J 2) I've pointed out God knows how many times now that VMS default behaviorK includes write-back caching by RMS (when processing sequential files, whichdF one assumes is pretty common):  the difference between the file systemK semantics in the two environments is *not* a matter of relative reliabilityuJ (they're both unreliable in getting writes to disk immediately, unless theJ user takes explicit action to force this), it's just default performance -L where Unix wins by over an order of magnitude in many common cases and never  loses by any significant amount.  J 3) As David Mathog has pointed out, there's also an absolute difference inG flexibility:  it's possible for an application on Unix that wants *any*rE VMS-like caching (or no-caching) behavior to get it with trivial codeCH changes (primarily, fsync calls at appropriate points, plus direct - vs.D cached - access where desired), but an application on VMS that wantsI Unix-like caching behavior must juggle global sections (and their sizes),nF deferred write, read-ahead, write-behind (all of these last three alsoK require decisions about buffer counts - and the last two buffer sizes - andrH at least some of those last three aren't supported for buffers in globalK sections, I think, so some Unix-like behavior may not be achievable at all: E at any rate, avoiding writes entirely for temp files that are deleted  quickly isn't achievable).  I In sum, these are not trade-offs made one way by VMS and another by Unix: I they are VMS deficiencies, pure and simple.  VMS had good reasons for itsvJ file system architecture (and the default behaviors specified) when it wasL designed 24 years ago; those reasons no longer apply, and while changing theD behavior of existing applications is never a reasonable thing to do,K extending the environment to accommodate new desirable behaviors (such thatiJ applications can obtain them almost as easily as the default behaviors) is long over-due.   - bill  5 David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messagea' news:394C43F4.2F5A56F0@tsoft-inc.com...- > David Mathog wrote:- > > B > > I'm not saying that there's not a plus side to OpenVMS, but IO performance-I > > is so much worse than the competition that nobody in their right mindm wouldlJ > > buy one now for PC and small systems applications that were in any way IO4 > > intensive.   Ie, file serving, web serving, etc. >2B > The reality of this is that you're running an application where: >k5 > Reliability of on-disk data is not a major concern,w >eE > You want your data to reside in memory as much as possible, re youre
 remarks on > Unix caching,  >r9 > And you blame VMS for not doing it this way by default.  >>K > Well, besides the very hard fact that many VMS users consider reliability  ofL > data a major concern, and that many users are doing many different things, your. > blaming VMS for all this is way out of line. >SJ > First, you are using applications converted from Unix systems, that wereL > probably written with Unix features in mind.  It's apparent that your idea ofG > porting this software is to do the minimum required to get it to run.g8 > Defenitely no re-design to get it to use VMS features. >oK > Then, you know VMS does not have the type of file caching you desire, butt evenK > while knowing that, you dump on the file system and VMS as having bad I/OyE > performance, when the reality is that it just doesn't have the filea caching thatK > you want it to have.  This doesn't make it bad for everyone, just for thea things! > you want, that it doesn't have.a >oI > I won't bother to describe an application where VMS will shine, and alla the E > other systems  fall kinda flat on their face.  Anyone who knows VMSi capabilities* > also knows that such applications exist. >sL > So, VMS doesn't have fast (and loose) file caching.  Some work in underway in* > this area.  Give it a break for a while. >i > Dave >m > --6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04506 > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596@ > DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com8 > T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 01:18:12 -0400e) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)a Subject: Re: GNU-CC on VAXF Message-ID: <642A954DD517D411B20C00508BCF23B0012D400D@mail.sauder.com>  . Mark (ccmn@morpheus.its.latrobe.edu.au) wrote:  	 : Hi All,@  6 : Does anyone know where I will find GNU-CC for a VAX?  F : I think I currently have all the files but don't know what logicals  : need to be setup. 5 : And I would like to get the latest version as well.e  	 : Thanks.   ' See the "SOFT2" section of the VMS FAQ:   A   SOFT2.  Where can I find the UNIX <whatever> tool for OpenVMS? s   The VMS FAQ is available at:  8   http://www.openvms.digital.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 11:37:36 -06000" From: Pat <unixguyz@freewwweb.com> Subject: Re: Help re: 4000 500- Message-ID: <394D08E0.51ADD692@freewwweb.com>   E I have registered in Canada and when my # becomes available to the USl= counterpart supposedly I can get the license and order media.   N I can pick up 4 more of these reasonably but none have (or it looks like) ever had internal tapes or disks.  O I have a dec cdrom to install but have to make a choice on internal dssi ? tapeeN and disks or scsi external, is there any reason 2nd party scsi tapes and disks should not work?  J They have 3100s. what I think are external dssi autoloader 8mm, tk50s, andD varios bits and pieces but "NO" cabling and there seems to be littleO documentation on dssi cables, I also had to make a power cable as they had lost  them.e  L The main questions I would have so far is what are the M0 S1 S2 plugs for onG the power supply  (mods of some kind) and if I picked up another to tryy< clustering what kind of cables to use and cost/availability.  J And yes if someone had a manual for sale I would purchase it as the CompaqC unlinks seem broken all over the place pointing to older VAX stuff.u  D Can single ended scsi devices be attached to the UQSSP controllers ?  7 I'l probably have many more questions when I get media.C   Show devices reports ...   KA 690-A V4.6 VMB 2.1.2v   DSSI BUS 0 NODE 6d   DSSI BUS 1 NODE 7   " SCSI ADAPTER 0 (761400), SCSI ID 7  " SCSI ADAPTER 1 (761500), SCSI ID 7    UQSSP DISK CONTROLLER 0 (772150)    UQSSP DISK CONTROLLER 1 (760334)  ! UQSSP TAPE CONTRO:LLER 0 (774500)    ETHERNET ADAPTER -EZA0 (08-00-2B-2B-667-71)  - MEMORY 0: 00000000-03FFFFFF, 64MB 0 BAD PAGES   - MEMORY 1 :04000000-05FFFFFF, 32MB 0 BAD PAGES   - MEMORY 2 :06000000-07FFFFFF, 32MB 0 BAD PAGES    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 18:38:19 +0200:= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>z Subject: Hotmail) Message-ID: <394BA97A.FFA2C827@gtech.com>   6 The danish computerworld online told, that hotmail was0 unavailable for a long period and that they lost email for 330000 users.l  % Does anyone have details about that ?   G AFAIK then the Hotmail backend is on Solaris ! Maybe we have a new Ebay  ????   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 11:49:38 -0400 ) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net>a; Subject: Re: How to acquire a hobbyists version of CMS/MMS? F Message-ID: <642A954DD517D411B20C00508BCF23B0012D4121@mail.sauder.com>  : Ivan Samuelson  <no.spam@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message6 news:7Af25.22004$0T2.379306@typhoon.columbus.rr.com...I > Yup, I'm already using that at work, since I can't get them to purchaseD	 > DECSet.W >WJ > Too bad there wasn't an equivelant program like CMS. CVS requires you toL > be running a server on another UNIX box in order to use it. And currently,K > at work, we don't have any source code control/revision software like CMS.J > and we could really use it. I'm hoping that if I can show them on my VAX: > box how it works, it might convince them to purchase it.  I Have you tried contacting Compaq Loaner Products?  They should be able touE get you a time-bombed demo copy, unlike the hobby version, the loaner 5 license allows you to use if for commercial purposes.e   -Johno wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 10:12:37 -0400o2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>G Subject: Installing OpenVMS on VAX 3100 30/40: System Password problems-7 Message-ID: <200006181012_MC2-A924-EBFF@compuserve.com>i  B         Have you tried using passwords that do not contain obviousJ sequences?  I'm a little surprised that VMS checks for "keyboard order" b= ut evidently it does.  D         Try some pseudo "words" such as "giznoid" or "docusex".  Try/ "Ihatemywife" but don't let your wife find out.m  % Message text written by "Nick Ulrich"a) >My knowledge is very limited so be kind:   J I am installing OpenVMS7.2 on a VAX 3100 30/40.  I have backed up VMS072.= BeJ on the intended system disk DKA0:.  This went well without problem.  I ha= veF now rebooted the system with the system disk, the system installed allG specified files which went well. I am now asked to set the password fora< SYSTEM.  When I type the password in I am getting the error:  -     %UAF-E-PWDSYNTAX, invalid password syntax3;     %VMS-I-PWD_SET, primary password for account SYSTEM set4  @     New password not secure. Please select a different password.   The passwords I have tried are:.
     asdfghjklk     q1w2e3r4     qsxcfths  > But I am getting the same error every time... Any suggestions? <i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 12:18:17 -0400w- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> ( Subject: Re: Intermec Barcode IP printerF Message-ID: <642A954DD517D411B20C00508BCF23B0012D4058@mail.sauder.com>  F It has been a few years since I setup an Intermec Barcode printer, but0 see my notes inline, they may or may not help :)    2 Swaffield, Harold [CRK:1342:EXCH] wrote in message) <394A2831.FBB7B8FE@americasm01.nt.com>...0 >...F >working, as it was shipped to us by Intermec. Hardware does work SelfA >test, and the serial port are okay. A sniffer indicates that theh Alphai> >is sending information to the print queue, the ip we setup is    E Check you sniffer to compare what the IP printer is receiving against D what the LAT printer sees. IIRC the first few characters the BarcodeD printer sees must be a certain string to tell the printer that it isE valid data, if the IP data stream has some other data inserted beforeh? your start of data then everything the printer sees is ignored.S  C >broadcasting, but the printer does not print. I have been in touchr with@ >Intermec, and have passed through the first level support. ThisD >gentleman had me setup the printer so that it would print raw data, buttD >that still would not work.  The reply from the second level support  D IIRC we had problems trying the raw data mode, it did not seem to do what it was supposed to do.p   >...F >init/queue/start/process=ucx$telnetsym/on="47.180.0.105:9100"/library =quedev  >SF >ctl/default=(flag=one,feed,noburst,form=letter)/separate=(noflag,nobu rst,notB >U >railer) paltest_node1 >K    C Do you have the FLAG=ONE on the other LAT Barcode printers that areMD working? My guess is that flag page is not needed and may be gettingA in the way. I also don't remember (it was a few years ago though)s having to use any library.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 00:34:58 -0400l- From: "Dave Pampreen" <davepampreen@home.com>b( Subject: Re: Intermec Barcode IP printerF Message-ID: <642A954DD517D411B20C00508BCF23B0012D40F4@mail.sauder.com>  L We have some Intermec 3400 models, and create the queues with /nolibrary.  II don't think this makes a difference for your issue, but it's just a note.  We do, however, use port 9100-   Dave    8 "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> wrote in message) news:skkkqkpbis4150@corp.supernews.com...<H > It has been a few years since I setup an Intermec Barcode printer, but2 > see my notes inline, they may or may not help :) >o >j4 > Swaffield, Harold [CRK:1342:EXCH] wrote in message+ > <394A2831.FBB7B8FE@americasm01.nt.com>...a > >...H > >working, as it was shipped to us by Intermec. Hardware does work SelfC > >test, and the serial port are okay. A sniffer indicates that thes > Alphae@ > >is sending information to the print queue, the ip we setup is >H > G > Check you sniffer to compare what the IP printer is receiving againstnF > what the LAT printer sees. IIRC the first few characters the BarcodeF > printer sees must be a certain string to tell the printer that it isG > valid data, if the IP data stream has some other data inserted beforerA > your start of data then everything the printer sees is ignored.  >sE > >broadcasting, but the printer does not print. I have been in touch  > withB > >Intermec, and have passed through the first level support. ThisF > >gentleman had me setup the printer so that it would print raw data, > butsF > >that still would not work.  The reply from the second level support >tF > IIRC we had problems trying the raw data mode, it did not seem to do > what it was supposed to do.s >a > >...H > >init/queue/start/process=ucx$telnetsym/on="47.180.0.105:9100"/library	 > =quedevn > >dH > >ctl/default=(flag=one,feed,noburst,form=letter)/separate=(noflag,nobu	 > rst,notn > >t > >railer) paltest_node1 > >w >  >eE > Do you have the FLAG=ONE on the other LAT Barcode printers that are F > working? My guess is that flag page is not needed and may be gettingC > in the way. I also don't remember (it was a few years ago though)t > having to use any library. >    ------------------------------  0 Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 11:44:51 +0500 (GMT+0500)  From: 0at0%loseit.com@dot.net.in* Subject: Low Carbs WORK! Lose Weight FAST!7 Message-ID: <200006180644.LAA0000030040@agr.dot.net.in>_  w Have you been hearing about ALL of the benefits (including DRAMATIC weight loss) of a low/restricted carbohydrate diet?r   Would you like to try this latest new "dieting" rage out, but don't have time to sit down, read the books, and actually put down on paper a DETAILED MENU?  Or, would you like to drop some SERIOUS weight before the HOT SUMMER days get here?g  & If so, this e-mail was MEANT FOR YOU!    (If not, PLEASE just delete me now! I'm only going to email my menu ad out once, so you don't even need to bother doing the remove thing. Thanks in advance!)u    :I have put together a SIMPLE & EASY to use Low Carb MENU based on the teachings of the popular book "Protein Power" by the good Drs. Michael & Mary Eades'. Using this one of a kind 14 DAY MENU, I LOST 23 POUNDS in just SIX weeks, and have kept it off AND have maintained my ideal body COMPOSITION since Aug, 1999!    Not only did eating less carbohydrates make my body use up my stored fats, my energy level SOARED after only 2 weeks! One of the best things is that my cholesterol actually DROPPED while not giving up MEAT!  S For ONLY $5.00 USD, I will RUSH to you my very own, 14 DAY "restricted carb" MENU!    WYou need only read the benefits experienced by others on this regimen (listed below) to gauge what you can personally expect from this plan. Also, the length of time these books have remained on the Best Sellers List attest to the fact that this APPROACH to eating (it's not a diet) is credible. It's NOT a fad, but a great approach to eating!    For ONLY FIVE BUCKS you will be ARMED with a written "PLAN of ACTION" designed to SIMPLY help you guide your food intake, NOT RESTRICT IT!  p Being a lover of FOOD (everything!), you simply will NOT go hungry on my menu! You cannot fail eating like I do!X Of course, exercise is always encouraged, however it wasn't part of my daily activity...  F To get your own, '14 DAY LOW CARB MENU, Six weeks to a BRAND NEW YOU!'  7 Just mail me $5.00 USD (cash, check or money order) to:o  w J. Freimuths
 P.O. BOX 9434e Ft Wayne, IN 46899  A Be sure to include your email address for an IMMEDIATE response! v   If you would just commit to 6 weeks, you'll be so GLAD you did! Losing them unwanted pounds and flab CAN and WILL change your life, just like it has for me! t  4 Make this menu YOUR OWN PERSONAL PLAN of ACTION for:# Dramatic and permanent weight loss.M: Resetting your metabolism and boosting your energy levels.? Lowering the "bad" cholesterol levels while elevating the good.n: Eating foods you love, including meats, cheeses, and eggs.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 03:38:02 -0400 / From: "Joe H. Gallagher" <dtrwiz@ix.netcom.com>  Subject: Re: MVII heat output F Message-ID: <642A954DD517D411B20C00508BCF23B0012D4100@mail.sauder.com>   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > "Joe H. Gallagher" wrote:dK > > electrical system have reached their steady state operating conditions,t > > all J > > additional power eventually ends up as thermal load in the environment > " > The use of "all" is not correct. > P > Don't forget all the electrons that escape and run for their lives through theL > ethernet and serial cables and travel as far as they can from the computerL > room. Don't forget all those little LEDs that emit light, don't forget theB > energy dissipated by creating the roar/sound of the machine. :-)  H The "electrons that escape" are replaced by other electrons flowing back thruI the return electrical pathway.  Since the microVAX II is not taking on a rD net electrical charge, the electrons flowing out will be essentially balanced by the electrons flowing in.    F If the electrons flowing out have a "higher temperature" (more kineticH energy) than the electrons flowing in, that is, in effect, conduction ofH the heat of the microVAX II into its environment.  In fact, this process isB exactly how heat is conducted down a metal bar.  The electrons and	 moleculesiD at the hot end of the bar have more kinetic energy than those at the	 cool end. H By collision, the kinetic energy (and thus the temperature differece) isB conducted from the hot end to the cold end until there is no more ( temperature (Kinetic energy) difference.  C Light being emitted from the system will scatter about the room ande quickly A come into equilibrium.  If the microVAX II has a really difficulte	 computing.D job and it is glowing red hot ;o) (in the infra-red), that enery too will? rather rapidly be conducted into the thermal environment of the 
 machine.  E Of course, the energy carried by a single photon of light is Planck's C constant times the frequency of the light wave -- and is very smallw compared= to the electrical power consumption (Ohm's law heat losses). e  H The same can be said for the sound waves which go into ever so slightly @ increasing the kinetic energy of the molecules of the air in the environmentiG around the machine.  That slight increase in temperature is conducted,  @ convected, and radiated (only theoretically) into the machine's  environment as well.  F So I believe that my original statement is correct, essentially all of thenD electrical power used in "running" a computer will end up as thermal energy  B in the computer and the environment around the computer (which, of course,eG includes the air conditioning system which is specifically designed to mF transport the excess thermal energy away from the computer so that it,  the computer, won't be damaged).  H The power consumed in the computer will be converted to heat, light, andF sound waves.  The light and sound waves will be converted back to heat asH they are absorbed by walls, ceilings, and floors (or any thing else theyD contect).  The energy coming out of the computer will be conducted, A convected, and radiated into the computer's environment.  The airb conditioningG system will transport that heat load (mostly thru convection) away from'A the computer and the environment immediately around the computer.   E The air conditioning system has got to cool the warm cables connectedMF to the computer, the warm air in the roon around the computer, and theD warm walls, ceilings, and floors of the computer room as well as the computer itself.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 10:12:34 -0400 2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: MVII heat output-7 Message-ID: <200006181012_MC2-A924-EBFC@compuserve.com>t  J         ALL the electrical power consumed by a piece of equipment shows u= p-J as heat!  Motors and fans consume a good chunk of power on any system tha= tcG has them.  Open up a modern system, Alpha or Pentium and have a look at2F those heat sinks on the chips.  They are there for a reason; the chipsJ dissipate enough power as heat that they would fry themselves without the=  	 heatsink.U  J         P=3DI**2*R where P is power in Watts, I is current in Amperes, an= d RcG is resistance in Ohms.  AC power gets a little more complicated becauseaF voltage and current can, and do, get out of phase with each other.   =  J Solving Ohm's law for R gives R=3DE/I  and substituting we get P=3DEI.  T= heseE calculations are exact for DC.  For AC you have to incorporate "powerlI factor" which depends on the phase relationship of voltage and current. =-  J For further details on the AC calculations, consult an engineer; P=3DEI i= s aw! good enough approximation for me.0  J         Also note that the rated power consumption is not necessarily equ= alJ to the actual power consumption; this is why someone suggested the use of=  a clamp-on ammeter.r    ; Message text written by INTERNET:steven.reece@quintiles.comeJ >Stupid question, but is such a conversion valid?  After all, not _all_ o= f  thelJ power consumed by a system (not even a MicroVAX II) ends up as thermal lo= ad onG your air conditioning plant.  There has to be some power used up in they workJ which the server or other system is doing.  Motors in disks don't transfe= rn allc. of the power they consume into thermal energy.   Richard Gilbert wrote:H >>>        Find the power consumption in Watts and convert to BTU/Hr.  I don'ttC have time to look up the conversion factor this morning.  Sorry.<<<o   <u   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 10:12:36 -0400a2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: MVII heat outputo7 Message-ID: <200006181012_MC2-A924-EBFE@compuserve.com>o  J         "All" is correct!  It shows up as heat *somewhere*.  Even the lig= htH emitted by LED's makes a minute contribution as it's absorbed by variousJ materials in the room.  Signals transmitted outside the computer room wil= l.G subtract a minute amount from the Air Conditioning load in the computer0- room but it ALL shows up *somewhere* as heat!D    Message text written by JF Mezei >"Joe H. Gallagher" wrote:J > electrical system have reached their steady state operating conditions,=   > all-H > additional power eventually ends up as thermal load in the environment    The use of "all" is not correct.  J Don't forget all the electrons that escape and run for their lives throug= h- the J ethernet and serial cables and travel as far as they can from the compute= rrJ room. Don't forget all those little LEDs that emit light, don't forget th= ec@ energy dissipated by creating the roar/sound of the machine. :-) <i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 17:11:01 -0400s/ From: "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu>t, Subject: Netscape v3.03 and Time CalculationF Message-ID: <642A954DD517D411B20C00508BCF23B0012D409D@mail.sauder.com>  G I have noticed a problem with my OpenVMS Netscape (v3.03-111897) that IaC use on my OpenVMS Alpha systems.  If I open a URL and then view thegD page's HTML info (VIEW -> DOCUMENT INFO) it reports a "Last ModifiedG Time" that is not correct.  That is, the OpenVMS time for the file that4G is being served is one value and the value reported by OpenVMS/NetscapewA is equal to the time zone offset for my site (+5 hours).  The GMT / converted time is also five (5) hours too high.r  A NOTE:  All other Netscape clients on PCs and *ix boxes report the  correctnE time!  I don't believe it is a problem with my HTTP server (OSU HTTP,  v3.8a5).  D Has anyone else noticed this or can they confirm it on other OpenVMSH systems?  Is there some Time Zone logical I have messed up that Netscape uses?y  H This is not just a trivial problem since it means that pages that shouldG expire from the browser's cache in "a few minutes" now don't expire for  5 hours + "a few minutes". :(c   Regards, Rick -- oH Richard L. Dyson                                    rick-dyson@uiowa.eduH  _   _      _____                http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/H | | | |    |_   _|   Systems Analyst                     O: 319/335-1879H | | | | of   | |     The University of Iowa            FAX: 319/335-17536 | \_/ |     _| |_    Department of Physics & Astronomy-  \___/     |_____|   Iowa City, IA 52242-1479c   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 00:24:16 -0400d' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> 7 Subject: Re: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clusters F Message-ID: <642A954DD517D411B20C00508BCF23B0012D40EB@mail.sauder.com>  8 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:394AED18.83133990@videotron.ca...I > Can NT clusters have disk shadowing across buildings ? If so, how is ito > implemented ?s  7 (Slip of the finger on the previous response.  Anyway:)e  G While it would seem silly not to have done so, I do not know for a factWE that, if any enhancements were required to allow NT's SCSI drivers toTH support fail-over, these same enhancements have been added to NT's FibreG Channel drivers (I don't even know that FC drivers are supported on NT,t* though I'm pretty sure they are on Win2K).  L But assuming NT (or Win2K) FC drivers equivalent to the SCSI drivers used toG support disk fail-over, the disks can nominally be up to 10 km from the D host.  So you place a host (Win2K, if NT doesn't support FC) in eachI building (or in neighboring suburbs, up to 10 km apart) each connected to2K two pairs of dual-ported FC disks, with one disk in each pair local and thee@ other disk at the other site (and on separate FC links so that aI catastrophic connection failure won't take out both disks of a pair).  InrJ other words, exactly as you'd hook up a SCSI NT/Win2K cluster, except at a greater distance.o  L (If you don't need an active/active pair of hosts, you can just use a singleJ mirrored pair of disks and leave one host on stand-by to take them over ifH the other fails.  In either case both hosts may need an additional local system disk to boot from.)  H During normal operation, one host maintains the mirroring on one pair ofK disks (one local, one remote) and the other host maintains the mirroring onfJ the other pair (one local, one remote).  If one host fails, the other hostK acquires its mirrored pair, recovers the file system on that mirrored pair,tL and takes over whatever duties were configured to fail over (just as with anI NT SCSI-based cluster).  If a disk fails, its owner just continues, usingtK the remaining disk of the mirrored pair.  If a site disaster takes out bothoI a host and the two disks at that site, normal host fail-over to the other,J host occurs, and the survivor continues processing its own workload (usingL the one remaining disk of its mirrored pair, connected by the local FC link)C and performs normal fail-over, file system recovery, and restart of,F specified applications from the demolished host, using the one (local)K remaining disk of the failed host's mirrored pair (again, it's connected bys the local FC link).e   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 09:36:38 -0400t* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>7 Subject: Re: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clusters F Message-ID: <642A954DD517D411B20C00508BCF23B0012D4115@mail.sauder.com>  = "Warren Sander" <sander@vmsbiz.enet.dec.com> wrote in message@$ news:8idr09$mv2@usenet.pa.dec.com... > 2 > We have a new white paper from Techwise Research > ' > Quantifying the Value of Availabilityo= > A detailed Comparision of Four Different RISC-Based Cluster-5 >     Solutions Designed to Provide High Availabilityr > B An interesting study but there are some glaring points that aren'tE covered.  First, where are the Tru64 clusters?  It's VMS against UnixnC clusters.  I would like to see how an Alpha Unix system compared as D well.  Were there no large scale clusters for the survey, or did the numbers not come out so good?s  @ The second problem with the survey is that there's no mention ofG experience levels for operating staff.  I am not surprised VMS came out G so well, if for no other reason than it has been around so much longer. C The people running VMS clusters have years more experience than thenF equivalent Unix clusters.  They've already seen the problems that comeG up and have designed around them.  Sun, HP, and IBM operating staff are   further down the learning curve.  H Of course both argue for choosing VMS, assuming the people will still beG available over the next few years.  The conclusion I got from the study E is to stay far away from Tru64 systems if you need reliable clusters.tD Sort of like the dog that did not bark in the Sherlock Holmes story,* Alpha unix is conspicuous by it's absence.    Jack Peacock    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 02:45:33 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> 7 Subject: Re: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clusters.( Message-ID: <8ihqvc$bp5$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:394C2F45.BAD6D89C@videotron.ca... > Larry Kilgallen wrote:E > > I doubt that you will find Compaq funding such a study for public F > > release.  The only "good" result possible from a Compaq standpointE > > is one that measured Tru64 and VMS as absolutely identical, since ; > > otherwise one departement or another would be offended.i >tF > The Montreal Compaq office has said a few times that Tru64's currentL > clustering capabilities now include ALL the functionality that was present in+ > openVMS (past tense is theirs, not mine).  >0K > I do not know if that is really true or not. If it is true, it means thatf anybJ > vendor can develop clustering technology that rivals VMS in a very short time.   E 'Functionality' is a slippery concept.  I've argued that Sun clusterstL approach the functionality of VMS clusters, and that's true, but they sufferG markedly in file system scalability and performance, because their filed9 system is simply NFS (enhanced to support transparent, if F less-than-immediate, server fail-over) rather than direct-to-disk with distributed cache.  K Tru64's file system is similar:  it's exported (like NFS or RMS/DAP) ratherpF than direct-to-disk, but it *does* apparently have a distributed cacheL (presumably coordinated using the DLM it got from VMS), which should give itL performance intermediate between Sun and VMS clusters in typical situations.H Can't scale as far or as flexibly as VMS, though, since it (like Sun) isG limited to the load-capacity of a single server to export its private -rK though fail-overable - portion of the file system (and the file system must G be re-partitioned if the load on an existing data partition exceeds theY" capacity of a single server node).  H My guess would be that there are other performance/availability/whateverL differences too.  Whether any of them constitute 'functional' differences is in the eye of the beholder..   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 12:51:04 GMT 9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)i7 Subject: Re: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clustersg+ Message-ID: <qlIAlRQZTm9e@eisner.decus.org>i  Z In article <394C4602.FB73A100@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > JF Mezei wrote:e  G >> The Montreal Compaq office has said a few times that Tru64's currentoP >> clustering capabilities now include ALL the functionality that was present in, >> openVMS (past tense is theirs, not mine). >> ,P >> I do not know if that is really true or not. If it is true, it means that anyQ >> vendor can develop clustering technology that rivals VMS in a very short time.8 > P > 1) Not, I do not believe it's true.  I'm pretty sure thay cannot run clusteredJ > machines 500 km, or whatever the maximum distance is, apart.  Don't know* > details, but I bet there's more missing. > M > 2) What other vendor, other than MS, will be handed the DLM and other code,:( > running natively on the CPU of choice? > * > I'm sure more can be added to this list. > N > However, maybe they are playing with words.  I could say that MS-DOS has theM > same cluster capabilities as VMS. Of course the 'had' will mean I'm talking-M > about pre-V4 or thereabouts VMS.  In both cases those same capabilities arezP > none.  Surely by now you carry around a 50 pound block of salt when talking to > salesmen.0  $ The oracle addresses this matter in:  M http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2000061173961.gifs   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 12:55:26 GMTa9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)s7 Subject: Re: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clusterse+ Message-ID: <wspvdfEyTVVf@eisner.decus.org>r  s In article <642A954DD517D411B20C00508BCF23B0012D4115@mail.sauder.com>, "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> writes:l? > "Warren Sander" <sander@vmsbiz.enet.dec.com> wrote in message & > news:8idr09$mv2@usenet.pa.dec.com... >>3 >> We have a new white paper from Techwise Researche >>( >> Quantifying the Value of Availability> >> A detailed Comparision of Four Different RISC-Based Cluster6 >>     Solutions Designed to Provide High Availability >>D > An interesting study but there are some glaring points that aren'tG > covered.  First, where are the Tru64 clusters?  It's VMS against UnixeE > clusters.  I would like to see how an Alpha Unix system compared asiF > well.  Were there no large scale clusters for the survey, or did the > numbers not come out so good?r  ' See the other discussion in this group.t  : But I feel you are not looking at the same study as I saw.8 The one I saw covered cluster availability over a period= of time.  Since Tru64 just got their real clustering support,d5 including them would not be possible for this report.g  ; As noted elsewhere, you won't get Tru64 vs VMS from Compaq,t< but that doesn't say it won't happen elsewhere.  Report back here if you find one.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:11:01 -0400-, From: Andrew Robert <robert_a@ix.netcom.com>B Subject: Re: ramdisk vs. file cache, and the winner is, file cacheF Message-ID: <642A954DD517D411B20C00508BCF23B0012D3531@mail.sauder.com>   David Mathog wrote:  > G > I had to do some system maintenance this weekend and thought that I'dmG > revisit the file caching performance issue by installing a ramdisk onvH > my system.  So after 2.3 was installed I ran the programs which follow@ > my signature on a 32 Mb RAMdisk on a DS10, with these results: >  > $ r maketest! > $ mysplit:==$mda0:[temp]mysplitc > $ create testsplit.com > $ sho time  > $ define/user sys$output nla0: > $ mysplit test.nfa 200 > $ sho time > ^Z > $ @testsplit >   10-JUN-2000 15:03:22 >   10-JUN-2000 15:03:23 > 9 > (delta varied between 1 and 2 seconds in multiple runs)m >  > $ sho dev mda0 > L > Disk SEQAXP$MDA0:, device type RAM Disk, is online, mounted, file-oriented >     device, shareable. > Q >     Error count                    0    Operations completed             216498 Q >     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC               [SYSMGR,SYSTEM]dQ >     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot            S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:R,WkQ >     Reference count                1    Default buffer size                 512hQ >     Total blocks               64000    Sectors per track                    64,Q >     Total cylinders               32    Tracks per cylinder                  32  > Q >     Volume label              "MDA0"    Relative volume number                0rQ >     Cluster size                   3    Transaction count                     1cQ >     Free blocks                62700    Maximum files allowed              8000eQ >     Extend quantity                5    Mount count                           1sQ >     Mount status              System    Cache name      "_SEQAXP$DKA0:XQPCACHE"1Q >     Volume owner UIC [SYSMGR,SYSTEM]    Vol Prot    S:RWCD,O:RWCD,G:RWCD,W:RWCDI > R >   Volume Status:  ODS-2, subject to mount verification, file high-water marking, >       caching is disabled. > H > That's MUCH faster than I could ever achieve by RMS tuning, but oddly,A > STILL not as fast as the same code run on Linux on an otherwise F > similar DS10.  It runs there about 2-3X faster as judged by the rateD > at which the names of the created files scroll by (it completes inB > under a second, so hard to time it precisely.)  This is when theH > mysplit program is run without suppressing the messages.  A small partE > of the speed difference may be a longer image activation on the VMS H > side, but once it gets rolling it is clearly taking longer per file on > the OpenVMS end.  I triedo >  > $ set RMS/extend=204 > H > (the size of the output files) but that didn't speed things up at all.G > Caching was disabled already (it's pointless when going to a RAMDISK,i@ > isn't it?).  Turning off highwater marking didn't help either. >  > So this is the situation:3 > ! > OS             OpenVMS    Linux & > Version        7.2-1      RedHat 6.2  > Machine        DS10       DS10& > input file     ramdisk    file cache& > output files   ramdisk    file cache& > program        ramdisk    file cache* > C RTL          disk       file cache (?)$ > compiler       Compaq C   Compaq C+ > version        V6.2-007   ccc-6.2.9.002-2o0 > Run time       1-2        0.5        (seconds) > H > So why does OpenVMS STILL run slower than Linux?  While 2-3X slower isC > certainly better than the 100X slower it registered "vanilla" theeD > result seems very wrong because CPU intensive programs usually runH > within a few percent of each other on the two platforms, and here I'veC > essentially reduced this disk IO application to a pure CPU/memory/; > application, and yet there's still a 2-3 fold difference.i > F > I wonder if it may not be related to the earlier result in my TCP/IPH > tests, where TCP/IP services sending data through a pipe to itself did0 > so slower than Linux did - by a similar ratio. > G > Anybody care to speculate about what accounts for the remaining largeI  > difference in the performance? > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edus@ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech > H > ********************************************************************** >  > /* MAKETEST.CcF >    makes a 16000 entry fasta file, each containing a 500 bp sequence > */ > #include <stdlib.h>. > #include <stdio.h> >  > void main(void){
 > int i,j; > FILE *fd;  >    fd=fopen("test.nfa","w"); >    for(i=0; i< 16000; i++){ + >       (void) fprintf(fd,">test%.4d\n",i);  >       for(j=0; j < 10; j++){U >          (void) fprintf(fd,"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA\n"); 	 >       }a >    } > }l > H > ********************************************************************** >  > /*  MYSPLIT.Ca7 > quicky program.  It splits a fasta file into a seriesc6 > of new files at N line intervals.  First argument is6 > the filename and second is the number of entries per@ > file fragment.  Single long sequence lines will not be handled* > properly if they exceed the buffer size. > */ >  > #include <stdlib.h>5 > #include <stdio.h> > #include <unistd.h>n > #define MYMAXSTRING 100000# > int main(int argc, char *argv[]){s > char *infile;l > char *outfile; > char root[]="frag";e > char bigstring[MYMAXSTRING]; > char outname[200]; > int  n,count,fragcount;e > FILE *fin;
 > FILE *fout;i >  >  >   fout=NULL; >   fragcount=0; >   count=0; >   n=0;; >   if(argc != 3 || (sscanf(argv[2],"%d",&n)==EOF) || n<1){h\ >     (void) printf("Usage:  mysplit infile N, where N is number of entries perfragment\n"); >     exit(0); Quick question.c  F Why didn't you use the VMS virtual I/O file cache and do a true apples to apples comparison?t  D The VIOC file cache resides in P0 space and has a max size of 1gig.   G Depending on the system memory installed on your system, you may not beoD able to allocate 1gig but you will definitely see a huge performance boost.   Regards,
 Andrew Robertg Principal Systems Analyst   Massachusetts Financial Services   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:06:29 -0400k7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>  Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?F Message-ID: <642A954DD517D411B20C00508BCF23B0012D3DA3@mail.sauder.com>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:e > i > In article <3945A986.FD0E0421@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:/I > :So, someone tell me: under EXACTLY what conditions would expanding the E > :OpenVMS user base harm Compaq's stock price or its investors???!!!  > I >   Please make your case -- I'd love to see this port.  In the interrum,mJ >   please see the OpenVMS FAQ, and specifically please see section VMS11.  G What further case needs to be made? (Further info. is also available ate the link(s) below.)a   --   David J. Dachtera4 dba DJE Systemsd" http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:+ http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/u   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 12:43:31 GMTI9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)q Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?+ Message-ID: <lM2gGH5MpNHO@eisner.decus.org>c  R In article <8ihee1$70i$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes: > 7 > Glenn C. Everhart <Everhart@GCE.com> wrote in messageW# > news:394BB480.112E07E0@GCE.com...F  @ >> My recollection of this is rather different. DEC was informed? >> by various governments that TCP/IP would be dropped from the @ >> Internet as the IMP protocol had before it and that OSI would= >> take over. Therefore it went and implemented OSI, awaitingd< >> the promised government action, which never came. Its UCX? >> offering was expected to be a stopgap, which led at least int< >> part to its not being done very carefully and to Multinet >> eating its lunch. > L > I think that's putting the cart before the horse:  my recollection is thatF > the OSI model was to a significant degree modeled on DECnet, not theK > reverse.  And given that close connection, DEC pushed for OSI adoption on H > the Internet.  We agree that it implemented UCX (or predecessors) as aM > stop-gap, but not on the background against which that took place (though IpL > wasn't a part of that background so can't speak authoritatively about it). > I > And VMS engineering (at least the people I still have contact with) hasoH > always sneered (perhaps rightly so) at IP's capabilities compared withK > DECnet's in areas of routing, addressing, and others I can't recall righte > now.  G Certainly Security is one they _should_ sneer at.  IP takes the defaultIE that any process on your system can set itself up as the recipient of G inbound connections (although not for well-known ports) from strangers.oC DECnet requires either that the receiving process have privilege or,G the initiating node supply a password (or that the local system managere specifically have intervened).  F As to government activity, there was a panel with active participationF by manufacturers and at least some participation from the NSA that setE up protocols for OSI akin to what IPSEC does for IPV6.  And no, thererB is no way the NSA could sneak a secret trap door past the likes ofD Morrie Gasser (who I believe represented DEC at the time).  In fact,E while the NSA types were happy with SP3 (your telephone company holdsSC the crypto keys), industry insisted on the addition of SP4 (the end0C user organization holds the crypto keys).  But that is transmissionbD security, where IP has something equivalent.  For authenticating theC initial connection, I know of nothing equivalent to what DECnet hasn@ had for 19 years, and I doubt that it could be introduced to the IP-loving public.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 08:46:09 -0400n+ From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>  Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?1 Message-ID: <394C8C51.3130A66F@trailing-edge.com>a   Bill Todd wrote: > I > Hear, hear!  VMS is better-suited than any other platform to efficient, 4 > reliable, available, scalable server environments.   I agree with you here.   >  Give it a decent Linux I > environment for developers who aren't (at least initially) motivated tot > learn a new platform  H VMS is (was?) Posix-compliant for many years now, and this hasn't filledE all it was hoped to do.  And there was actually a Posix standard thateD the VMS developers could aim for.  What do they aim for in trying to provide a "Linux environment"?  @ In my experience, "Linux environment" means "upgrade your kernel? with the latest security patches every couple of months".  Whats< other desirable Linux-86 features should be imported to VMS?@ Oh, yeah, let's limit file sizes to 2 Gigabytes.  And let's have> three or four different ways of documenting every program and @ system call, some of which haven't been maintained for years and4 in some cases are woefully (dangerously) inaccurate.  D I'm not saying Linux is bad, I'm just saying that there are a lot of> bad things and fundamental design flaws in it, as there are inB most any Unix or other OS variant.  I'm very much against bringingB these fundamental flaws into VMS - there's already enough criticalE VMS system services and applications written in poor language choices @ like C, and these have their own repercussions.  Look at the way6 Digital is disavowing Year 2038 support in current VMS  releases, for example.  In fact,  F   http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvms/products/year-2000/2038b.html  > indicates that there have already been outside problem reports= on Year 2038 issues in the VMS Security Server.  Do we reallyeH want all the other fundamental design flaws of Unix to be present in VMS too?   Tim.   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jun 2000 06:07:20 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)V Subject: Why I mess Digital Review: was RE: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clusters, Message-ID: <8ihouo$p73@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  x In article <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284412@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> writes: >cK >Btw - as Larry mentioned, asking for a comparison of two products from thedL >same vendor when there are overlapping capabilities is not likely to happenG >ie. would Oracle publish a analyst paper that discusses whether Rdb islK >better than Oracle8 or Sun publish a analyst paper which discusses whether & >Solaris is better on Intel or SPARC ?  G Exactly.  The vendor won't do it, which is why we either need the pressvJ or some independent analyst to do it.  But I'm awfully suspicious of theseO analyst reports from groups I've never heard of before.  And for all practical  E purposes there is no press organization that will perform and publishrK these sorts of tests anymore.  The last time I saw something useful of this J sort from a magazine it came from Digital Review, which tells you just howF long we've been without an independent source.  While the vendors are I perfectly happy to leave us in the dark, except in those instances where eA they have a nice test result to show, I'm not at all happy  with rH this situation.  The only relevant benchmarks I've seen for performance I measurements on the DS10 I had to run myself.  It's like having to buy a uI car without being able to read a single review article on it, and having QC heard very little word of mouth either.  The only comparative testsoH I see these days in the press are for Windows and (rarely) mac machines.  J If anybody knows of a reliable source for this sort of information please 
 share it.   J Or maybe we need a systems reviewing cooperative of some sort.  This mightE entail running some relatively simple benchmarks and writing up a fewyJ paragraphs of descriptive material.  I think the net result should be thatB the systems will improve once vendors can no longer so easily keepG knowledge of the failings of their products out of the hands of the end F users.  (And it won't be all bad - many systems and software products = should be very very good, which will show up in the reviews.)t  H After a few months spent using them, and you may refer to my prior postsC in various threads for the data this is based on, I'd give the DS10  the following report card:  >   ("Very large" below refers to files so large that they flushX    the file cache on Linux. Clustering on OpenVMS was not tested because we only had oneN    system with an OpenVMS license.  I expect that OpenVMS would have scored anL    "A" with the caveat that anything IO intensive and using records on smallL    files would have been performed even worse across the cluster than it was    within the one node. )     ! OpenVMS 7.2-1   Red Hat Linux 6.2-( A               B               Security) A               A-              Stabilityc* Not Tested      B+              Clustering@ C               B+              Devices supported               5 D               B               Software availability4. C               B               Purchase PriceH A               B               Operating costs (operator time required)9 A               A               CPU intensive performancet9 F               A               small file IO performancei3 F               A               pipe IO performanceiJ B               A               very large file or heavy load IO (records)I A               A               very large file or heavy load IO (binary)y2 A- (UCX)        A               TCP/IP performance C (Multinet)     e/ C (UCX)         A               TCP/IP features  A (Multinet)     d4 C- (Elsa)       B (S3 Trio)     Graphics Performance  I Obviously some of this is subjective, even highly subjective, but so are rK all reviews, and anybody can look at a review and fairly rapidly draw their C own conclusions about which systems they want to consider and why. oJ I don't give an overall score because I don't think anybody buys a system D that way - for some security may be 99% of the score and for others I irrelevant, but any overall score would require some arbitrary weighting q# which I'm just not going to supply.p  C If anything my biases favor OpenVMS - it's my favorite OS, and I'm -L as disappointed with the results of this "review" as anybody.  But I've got I to call them like I see them (or in this case, measure them.)  Anyway, I  F feel that this is as fair a review as most you'll find, but somehow I H don't expect to find this posted on the OpenVMS web pages.  Which bringsA us back to the original topic, which is what mechanisms exist nowiK to get this sort of information, relevant to anybody considering purchasingwI a system, into the hands of the end users.  As far as I can see, the onlydJ paths available are to post it here or on a web site - neither of which isJ likely to land it in the lap of a potential customer interested in such a  comparison.      Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech v   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 13:02:39 GMT 9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)nY Subject: Re: Why I mess Digital Review: was RE: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems cluster + Message-ID: <U2mPMUYPnkFg@eisner.decus.org>   a In article <8ihouo$p73@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:Dz > In article <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284412@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> writes: >>L >>Btw - as Larry mentioned, asking for a comparison of two products from theM >>same vendor when there are overlapping capabilities is not likely to happenlH >>ie. would Oracle publish a analyst paper that discusses whether Rdb isL >>better than Oracle8 or Sun publish a analyst paper which discusses whether' >>Solaris is better on Intel or SPARC ?  > I > Exactly.  The vendor won't do it, which is why we either need the press L > or some independent analyst to do it.  But I'm awfully suspicious of theseQ > analyst reports from groups I've never heard of before.  And for all practical DG > purposes there is no press organization that will perform and publishWM > these sorts of tests anymore.  The last time I saw something useful of thisiL > sort from a magazine it came from Digital Review, which tells you just howH > long we've been without an independent source.  While the vendors are K > perfectly happy to leave us in the dark, except in those instances where  C > they have a nice test result to show, I'm not at all happy  with mJ > this situation.  The only relevant benchmarks I've seen for performance K > measurements on the DS10 I had to run myself.  It's like having to buy a sK > car without being able to read a single review article on it, and having nE > heard very little word of mouth either.  The only comparative testssJ > I see these days in the press are for Windows and (rarely) mac machines. > L > If anybody knows of a reliable source for this sort of information please  > share it.   > I do not feel Digital Review was such an independent competent; source of information.  A customer-funded technically savvye< group is required.  The only case I know where this has been< done in a typical commercial setting on a large scale is the? Consumer Reports organization.  Absent that, you are restrictedi? to venues like Usenet and DECUServe to compare experiences with  others.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.339 ************************