1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 20 Jun 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 342       Contents: adding large number of users9 Re: Alpha DEC 2000-300 (Jensen?) - Serial port as console  An FTP copy procedure  Re: An FTP copy procedure  Re: An FTP copy procedure  Re: An FTP copy procedure " Re: CMQ/Dec with a sense of Humor?( Re: CMU TCP/IP on a Vax VMS v7.x system? Re: CONV$RECLAIM question  Re: Directory ACL Question. Re: Disk taking itself offline during install?. Re: DOS (CMD) commands to Win 2000 from VMS AS Re: DPW433 and graphic's card $ Re: FIND,DFU and [?]F11$MOVEFILE.TMP FS: MicroVAX II  Re: Fun VMS Facts? Re: JBC$COMMAND query  Re: MVII heat output Re: MVII heat output' Re: Pathworks ( AS v7.2a) vs MSDEV VC++ ' Re: Pathworks ( AS v7.2a) vs MSDEV VC++ ' Re: Questions about memory (DS20, ES40) * Re: Re[2]: Techwise report on availability+ Re: transferring files to/from vms systems? * utility to translate VMS filespecs to Unix Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  RE: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  VAX/VMS networking Re: VAX/VMS networking VAX/VMS networking Re: Vest problem
 Vest problem2  RE: Vest problem2  RE: Vest problem2 	 VMS sites 0 Re: VMSeti CGI script update - for VMS SETI@home, Re: What's happeb with the OpenVMS Webpages? your imaging supplies   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:10:11 -0400  From: "tp" <tp@fastdial.net>% Subject: adding large number of users + Message-ID: <394e970e.0@newsfeed.vitts.com>   F does anyone have a com file to add/create accounts for large number of users?   thanks Tony   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 15:48:28 -0500 % From: Chris Scheers <asi@airmail.net> B Subject: Re: Alpha DEC 2000-300 (Jensen?) - Serial port as consoleO Message-ID: <CE5B02EF3F5B5EA7.B8D8169CB4984F60.08C428401472CAAA@lp.airnews.net>    Adrian Lumsden wrote:  > 5 > I have found SET CONSOLE SERIAL and have managed to $ > install OpenVMS onto this machine. > 7 > I still have problems with the graphics cards and the 5 > EISA Configuration Utility. Does anybody know where 4 > I can get a new copy of the ECU from? Does anybody. > have any information about the graphics card; > (a Compaq QVision 1024/e) and are there any alternatives?   F AFAIK, the QVision 1024E is THE graphics card for VMS on the DEC 2000.F (Well, a QVision 1280E will work, but only at 1024x768, so there is no advantage over the 1024E.)  D RE the ECU problem:  Do you know whether or not your floppy drive is good?   G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  G 817-237-3360 (Voice)    817-237-3074 (Fax)    Internet: asi@airmail.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:16:19 -0500  From: canellis@al.brooks.af.mil  Subject: An FTP copy procedure- Message-ID: <00061917161914@al.brooks.af.mil>    Hi All,   B 	I need to move 2.2Gb of data.  First problem the machine with theN data has no removeable media.  And not enough disk space to create a backup orJ zip file.  Is there a DCL procedure that will FTP and create the directory  structure on the remote machine?   Thanks,    Alan J. Canellis   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 23:28:52 GMT / From: Hans.Bachner@altavista.net (Hans Bachner) " Subject: Re: An FTP copy procedure+ Message-ID: <394eab05.10544154@news.aon.at>   C canellis@al.brooks.af.mil wrote on Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:16:19 -0500:    >Hi All, > C >	I need to move 2.2Gb of data.  First problem the machine with the O >data has no removeable media.  And not enough disk space to create a backup or K >zip file.  Is there a DCL procedure that will FTP and create the directory ! >structure on the remote machine?  <snip>  F Can you NFS mount one of the participating disks on the other machine?    : ---------------- speaking only for myself ---------------- Hans Bachner Compaq Computer Austria + Compaq Customer Services - Software Support  E-Mail: Hans.Bachner@compaq.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 04:40:45 GMT - From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) " Subject: Re: An FTP copy procedure, Message-ID: <394ef5a2.36254961@news.wku.edu>  D On Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:16:19 -0500, canellis@al.brooks.af.mil wrote:   >Hi All, > C >	I need to move 2.2Gb of data.  First problem the machine with the O >data has no removeable media.  And not enough disk space to create a backup or K >zip file.  Is there a DCL procedure that will FTP and create the directory ! >structure on the remote machine?  > F MadGoat FTP will let you recreate the directory structure on the otherB side using MPUT/RECURSIVE.  MGFTP must be running on both ends....     Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ ; goathunter@Goatley.com      http://www2.wku.edu/www/hunter/ : Check out Dangerous Dwarf:  http://www.dangerousdwarf.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 00:41:27 GMT > From: "Rajagopalan Srinivasan" <r.srinivasan@worldnet.att.net>" Subject: Re: An FTP copy procedureG Message-ID: <X4z35.10323$C44.615101@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>   L What kind of system is the remote system. If it is an NT machine, I might beF able to give you a utility to replicate an entire directory structure.  < "Hans Bachner" <Hans.Bachner@altavista.net> wrote in message% news:394eab05.10544154@news.aon.at... E > canellis@al.brooks.af.mil wrote on Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:16:19 -0500:  > 
 > >Hi All, > > E > > I need to move 2.2Gb of data.  First problem the machine with the G > >data has no removeable media.  And not enough disk space to create a 	 backup or C > >zip file.  Is there a DCL procedure that will FTP and create the 	 directory # > >structure on the remote machine?  > <snip> > H > Can you NFS mount one of the participating disks on the other machine? >  > < > ---------------- speaking only for myself ---------------- > Hans Bachner > Compaq Computer Austria - > Compaq Customer Services - Software Support ! > E-Mail: Hans.Bachner@compaq.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 02:24:24 GMT * From: martin.hunt@nbnz.co.nz (Martin Hunt)+ Subject: Re: CMQ/Dec with a sense of Humor? 0 Message-ID: <394ed592.112712512@news.xtra.co.nz>  2 On Fri, 16 Jun 2000 09:57:36 +0200, Karl Rohwedder, <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> wrote:   >>    >> And didn't RT-11 respond to:- >>   >>     SHOW USERS  >>  	 >> with:-  >>   >>     You're the only one!  >>  E >I think RT-11 answered with 'Nobody but You'. If you typed 'Help Me'  >you got 'Help You?' and- I remember it as "Help not available for you"   $ >the 'Make Love' produced 'Not war?' >    -- Martin Hunt  Technical Specialist National Bank of New Zealand   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jun 2000 19:18:24 GMT& From: Cthulhu <cthulhu@kadath.deep.it>1 Subject: Re: CMU TCP/IP on a Vax VMS v7.x system? ( Message-ID: <8ilrm0$ut$1@kadath.deep.it>   Andy.Harper@kcl.ac.uk wrote:  5 >    http://www.agh.cc.kcl.ac.uk/files/vms/cmu-tcpip/   " For the 'K' version, look also at:   	ftp://ftp.qsl.net/pub/wb8tyw/ 	ftp://FTP.CSUS.EDU/pub/cmuip/ 	 
 	bookmarking,  	   Cthulhu    --    G        Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu http://www.rlyeh.it wgah'nagl fhtgan! % 		       <cthulhu at flashnet dot it>    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 20:51:00 -0500 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> " Subject: Re: CONV$RECLAIM question- Message-ID: <394ECE04.90C84A8B@earthlink.net>    Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  > JF Mezei wrote:  >  > > David A Froble wrote: U > > > If I remember the start of this thread correctly, you're using the indexed file T > > > for some type of queue.  Quite do-able for this purpose.  But most of the timeT > > > when people set up a queue file, expecting to store and forward some data, andS > > > also expecting specific data to have a limited life, some type of linked list < > > > structure is one of the most favored design decisions. > > F > > But using RMS makes it easier to implement a clusterable solution. > > K > > CONV$RECLAIM is no big deal to use.  And as someone suggested, if I use R > > buckets large enough, chances are that the reader portion of the queue will beO > > able to delete records in the bucket fast enough to prevent the bucket from T > > getting full. (which means that the deleted records inside a bucket get reused). > > M > > Also, using RMS instead of a proprietary home grown equivalent means that L > > VMS's standard tools can be used to diagnose and recover a corrupt file. > ) > JF, in case you didn't already realize,  > U > Linked lists are easily implemented using VMS's native queue handling instructions, M > which are accessible from the run time library also (LIB$INSQ*, LIB$REMQ*).   C ...except that VMS didn't exist back in the old RT-11 days which is G where most of pre-RMS DIBOL applications originated using linked lists, H separate, sorted "index" files (key value + pointer). Actually, those doF require some maintenance. Indices must be kept sorted, deleted records+ must be purged out of the index files, etc.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems " http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:+ http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:15:57 -0700 9 From: tforsyth <ted.forsythNOteSPAM@amcor.com.au.invalid> # Subject: Re: Directory ACL Question 9 Message-ID: <1c2c4b18.3f7f3c86@usw-ex0101-006.remarq.com>    Im,   ) A fairly simple way to set it on the fly:   @ Create a template file in the test directory using , making sure< that the directory file (test.dir) has the WORLD EXECUTE bit$ set. Set the protection as required;  8 $ set sec/prot=(s:rwed,o:rwed,g:rwed,w:rw) def_prot.lis;: $ set sec/prot=(s:rwed,o:rwed,g:rwed,w:rwed) def_prot.dat;    Then in your batch job, do this;  @ $ set sec/like=(name=disk100:[test]def_prot.lis;) disk100:[test] *.log;*   @ $ set sec/like=(name=disk100:[test]def_prot.lis;) disk100:[test] *.lis;*   @ $ set sec/like=(name=disk100:[test]def_prot.dat;) disk100:[test] *.dat;*   9 That will set them to be the same as your template files.    Ted.  7 Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.  Up to 100 minutes free!  http://www.keen.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 04:15:42 GMT 2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>7 Subject: Re: Disk taking itself offline during install? 5 Message-ID: <OdC35.164$6C1.38624@typhoon.aracnet.com>   ( Bill Bradford <mrbill@mrbill.net> wrote:G > * Enter name of drive holding the OpenVMS distribution media: DKA400: 5 > * Is the OpenVMS media ready to be mounted? [N] YES J > %SYSTEM-I-MOUNTVER, DKA200: is offline.  Mount verification in progress.  A > Or, the system will properly mount the CD-ROM drive/media, and  B > give me the DKA200: offline message while its extracting OpenVMS > library files, for instance.  D > Any suggestion of why this might be happening?  When it does, I've@ > waited for up to 20 minutes before giving up and rebooting the > box (via the power switch).   L Is your SCSI chain activily terminated?  I got a VLC a month or two ago, andI found the SCSI to be a lot more touchy than I'm used to.  I'm pretty sure K you've got some sort of SCSI problem, I just don't rememeber what all I had  to do to fix it.  J This does happen to be the only DEC system I have running with a 3rd party disk.    			Zane    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:36:20 GMT : From: brad.mccusker@compaq.remove_this.com (Brad McCusker)7 Subject: Re: DOS (CMD) commands to Win 2000 from VMS AS 0 Message-ID: <394e75b0.437271523@news.compaq.com>  3 On Fri, 2 Jun 2000 14:00:25 +0200, "Pathworks News" $ <Daniel.Grund@notformail.com> wrote:   >Yes, ADMIN TELL >  >-- 
 >Daniel Grund  >  >Compaq  >Customer Services# >Microsoft Certified Support Centre 2 >Pathworks/Advanced Server Expertise Centre Europe >     : Hmmm... I don't know about that.  ADMIN TELL will direct aD NetServerAdminCommand () transact API at a remote server.  I haven'tE looked at the specs to verify what that API actually does, and/or who A supports it.  I know the intent was more for providing down level $ support for managing our V5 servers.  : I'd be interested in knowing if that does the job for you.   Brad Regards,  
 Brad McCusker / OpenVMS Advanced Server Engineering (PATHWORKS)  Compaq Computer Corporation   3 All comments contained herein are my own and do not * reflect those of anyone or anything else.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 04:10:24 GMT 2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>& Subject: Re: DPW433 and graphic's card5 Message-ID: <Q8C35.163$6C1.38624@typhoon.aracnet.com>   + Peter LANGSTOEGER <eplan@kapsch.net> wrote: K > You may also use the system without a graphic controller and use a remote 7 > X11 server instead, if you are not successful at all.   F I bought an Elsa Gloria for my PWS433au, but find that I prefer to useE eXodus on my Mac to use the system as that way I get the best of both 	 worlds.      			Zane    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 20:59:41 -0500 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> - Subject: Re: FIND,DFU and [?]F11$MOVEFILE.TMP , Message-ID: <394ED00D.4617A6F@earthlink.net>   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: > i > In article <394843F3.3B3B2973@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:  > >Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: 0 > >> With a $ find/allo=(10000,1000000000) disk:, > >> I found a file I didn't expect to find: > >> > >> [?]F11$MOVEFILE.TMP;1 > > = > >Do these file show up in an ANALYZE/DISK/NOREPAIR display?  > 3 > No. I probably would have found them years ago...  > 1 > >Can you DUMP/HEADER/BLOCK=COUNT=0 these files?  > < > If I know the real FID, then yes. But alas the asterisk...P > So nobody knows FIND good enough to tell what the asterisk does in this game ? >  > >How 'bout DIRECTORY/FILE_ID?  > > & > >(i.e., an OpenVMS "native" command) >  > To do what ?- > DIR lists only file entered in a directory. 4 > And as I wrote the Backlink File Id is (0,0,0) ...  C That, in itself, is not entirely meaningful, except to say that the ? backlink FId is "broken" ... and if the file is not listed in a E directory, then ANALYZE/DISK/NOREPAIR should report them as such, no?   D Try DIRECTORY/SIZE=ALL/DATE/FILE_ID/OUT=XX.LIS and SEARCH XX.LIS for F11$.    P > So, is this a real file ? Does it occupy space on the disk (eg. 189788 Blks) ?K > Why is the FID funny and why does AN/DI not find the file as "not entered  > in a directory" or similar ?  E All else fails, try SEARCHing INDEXF.SYS for F11$, or DUMP INDEXF.SYS 4 and either SEARCH the .DMP file or scan it visually.   Other than that...   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems " http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:+ http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  ! Date: Mon, 19 Jun 00 20:47:46 GMT  From: kshuff@fast.net (kshuff) Subject: FS: MicroVAX II* Message-ID: <8im0ti$110_004@news.fast.net>  K  I have a not so micro MicroVAX II I'm looking sell for best offer. It has  N 16Mb of memory, TK70 tape, ethernet, and two RA-82's mounted in a standard 4' G DEC cabinet. I also have a spare RA-82 drive for the system and a QDSS  % boardset. Curently running Ultrix 3.0   O  I live in Eastern, PA about 40 minutes north of Philadelphia, local pickup is  : preferred since you will need a pickup truck to transport.  
 Keith Huff   kshuff@fast.net    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:02:51 -0600 (MDT) ) From: John Nebel <nebel@athena.csdco.com>  Subject: Re: Fun VMS Facts? G Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0006191752490.15065-100000@athena.csdco.com>	   Peter,  J In a conversation in Dallas, Sue Skonetski from Compaq said the VMS remarkH was in the hearing transcript.  I checked the congressional web site andL the prepared statements are there, but not the Senate hearing transcripts.  I The statement on Mitnick's site which you saw and Thomas (Congress/Senate? site) are the same or close.  E I'll call a local congresscritter and request a transcript copy if no?  one else has easy access to one.  F The source document in this case would make the story more convincing.  
 John Nebel    ( On Mon, 19 Jun 2000, Peter Weaver wrote:  C > I took a look at http://www.kevinmitnick.com/sentest.html since I E > thought a printout of the actual statement posted on the wall woulde; > look good. The closest thing I can find is Mitnik saying;e >  > ==========? > I have 20 years experience circumventing information securitys > measures, and can @ > report that I have successfully compromised all systems that I > targeted for > unauthorized access save one.n > ========== > F > I could not find any place where he said what that one system was. IF > could not find any mentioned of VMS, Digital or DEC in the document.H > If anyone finds a quote where he says that the one system was VMS then > let us know. >  >  > -- > Peter Weaver > $ > Martin Vorlaender wrote in message4 > <394a3419.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>...1 > >John Nixon (jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net) wrote:m< > >: "Martin Vorlaender" <martin@radiogaga.harz.de> wrote...E > >: > Rich Marcello just pointed out today in the OpenVMS Directionsp > TeleforumOC > >: > that Kevin Mitnick stated the only OS he couldn't break into- > easily was > >: > VMS.- > >:H > >: Can you point me to any kind of link that I can use to support that > >: statement.:G > >: It may help tip the scales in a very large decision regarding OVMSm	 > that wea > >: have coming up real soon. > >c> > >OK, I pulled out the slides again, and the exact wording is > >-
 > ><QUOTE>C > >OpenVMS was the only environment that the world's most notoriousi > hacker7 > >couldn't break into as testified to in U.S. Congressp > ></QUOTE>e > >s4 > >(Rich mentioned Mitnick's name along this slide.) > >@E > >I guess there was a Congess (commitee?) hearing where Mitnick saidO > that.  > >aF > >Apart from that, I have no idea where to point you to - this was an0 > >invitational (does one say so?) presentation. > >i > >cu, > >  Martins > >--yG > >                       |  Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmere4 > >  OpenVMS: When you    |  work: mv@pdv-systeme.de > >  KNOW where you want  | * > http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/; > >  to go today.         |  home: martin@radiogaga.harz.dei >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:09:40 +0200   From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> Subject: Re: JBC$COMMAND query+ Message-ID: <VA.00000073.0003b691@sture.ch>-  @ In article <3944FA00.69A65BB8@digital.com>, Mike Rechtman wrote:4 > From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com> > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsi  > Subject: Re: JBC$COMMAND query' > Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 14:56:00 +0900  >  > Adrian Birkett wrote:o > > D > > Today is the first time I've used the DIAG 7 function and it hasF > > extended the .QMAN$JOURNAL file. The original was just over 11,000F > > blocks (allocated) with a few hundred used and the replacement is; > > ! > > Directory SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE]e > > $ > > SYS$QUEUE_MANAGER.QMAN$JOURNAL;1A > >                            2/12642     8-JUN-2000 10:23:01.12  > > K > > Has anybody seen this before? Are there any other options or qualifiers:$ > > that I can use to overcome this? > >  > > Thanks,r > >  > > Ade: > > 7 > > ----- My own opinion, not that of my employer -----. > 3 > The DIAG 7 is only meant as a temporary solution.0= > Install the current version of either the ALPQMANxx_062 or a > VAXQMANxx_062 patches. > J Whilst it was only a temporary solution for the xxxQMANxx_062 patches, it  still works on Alpha V7.2-1.  I How do I know? Well a DBA recently had a slight problem with his startup o> command files and ended up with over a million jobs queued :-)  G And of course someone else's application fell over because they hadn't y* catered for a 7 digit job number field :-)  J The last point of course leads me to ask: Is there a way to force a reset I of the queue entry number? I've a vague feeling I did it many moons ago, 2J but really cannot remember how (and maybe it was back the days before the / queue manager was written in its present form).4 ___.
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:02:59 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>t Subject: Re: MVII heat output , Message-ID: <394E9891.CE7957C7@videotron.ca>   "Richard D. Piccard" wrote:oJ > Each of these individually and their sum total are tiny fractions of theH > total electrical power consumed by the computer system and transformed% > into heat within the computer room.h  M But that is enough that one cannot use the "all electricity will be convertedr, into heat in the computer room" statement...  K Without the RA80s, I think that an MVII is not too bad a citizen. The VT220t6 that sits on top might actually generate more heat :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:32:56 -04002/ From: "Joe H. Gallagher" <dtrwiz@ix.netcom.com>s Subject: Re: MVII heat outputR) Message-ID: <394ED7C9.70A9@ix.netcom.com>5   JF Mezei wrote:g >  > "Richard D. Piccard" wrote: L > > Each of these individually and their sum total are tiny fractions of theJ > > total electrical power consumed by the computer system and transformed' > > into heat within the computer room.t > O > But that is enough that one cannot use the "all electricity will be convertedi. > into heat in the computer room" statement...  F Hey, I never said that the power consumed by the computer would end upF as thermal energy in the computer room.  I said that _ALL_ (every lastG nanowatt) would end up in the environment of the computer.  What is theaF environment of the comptuer?  The whole universe is the environment ofG the computer.  However, for all practical purposes, to the accurancy of F the measurement (of the hand held snap on amp meter), the amount whichE escapes the computer room into the rest of the universe does not makeCB any practical change in the estimate of the air conditioning need.  M > Without the RA80s, I think that an MVII is not too bad a citizen. The VT220r8 > that sits on top might actually generate more heat :-)   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:30:07 GMTo: From: brad.mccusker@compaq.remove_this.com (Brad McCusker)0 Subject: Re: Pathworks ( AS v7.2a) vs MSDEV VC++0 Message-ID: <394e741d.436868964@news.compaq.com>  7 On Sat, 17 Jun 2000 12:27:56 -0700, "Larry D Bohan, Jr"y" <LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com> wrote:   >h7 >Does anyone here, have users using the MSDEV VC++ IDE pA >(any one of v4.x, 5.x, 6.x) on/against source files residing on '* >Pathwork shares, (AS v7.2 in particular). >nG >If can I find out that at least *one* site is doing this sucessfully, -< >then I can figure on a configuration problem of some sort.  >h9 >But I'd rather not chase it down, until I know it's not x. >the MSDEV VC++ at fault.  (it looks that way) >.6 >I've quite a few things/angles that I've tried so far >if this interests anyone. >c >t  A There are definitely people using MSDEV VC++ against source filesbD residing on PATHWORKS and/or Advanced Server shares.  How do I know?E Cause I've seen the problem reports escalated to engineering for whatg+ is likely the same problems you are seeing.e  D Please either contact the Customer Support Center for the latest andC greatest patches, or, give us more specific details on the problemst you are experiencing.E   Brad   Regards,  
 Brad McCusker./ OpenVMS Advanced Server Engineering (PATHWORKS)  Compaq Computer Corporation   3 All comments contained herein are my own and do not * reflect those of anyone or anything else.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 15:52:08 -0700.5 From: "Larry D Bohan, Jr" <LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com>e0 Subject: Re: Pathworks ( AS v7.2a) vs MSDEV VC++2 Message-ID: <oaNOOZn=Ar3YtlLNSlh03BP=kc6G@4ax.com>  F On Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:30:07 GMT, brad.mccusker@compaq.remove_this.com (Brad McCusker) wrote:  8 >On Sat, 17 Jun 2000 12:27:56 -0700, "Larry D Bohan, Jr"# ><LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com> wrote:C8 >>Does anyone here, have users using the MSDEV VC++ IDE B >>(any one of v4.x, 5.x, 6.x) on/against source files residing on + >>Pathwork shares, (AS v7.2 in particular).c >>H >>If can I find out that at least *one* site is doing this sucessfully, = >>then I can figure on a configuration problem of some sort. d >>: >>But I'd rather not chase it down, until I know it's not / >>the MSDEV VC++ at fault.  (it looks that way)s >>7 >>I've quite a few things/angles that I've tried so farF >>if this interests anyone.r  B >There are definitely people using MSDEV VC++ against source filesE >residing on PATHWORKS and/or Advanced Server shares.  How do I know?eF >Cause I've seen the problem reports escalated to engineering for what, >is likely the same problems you are seeing. >tE >Please either contact the Customer Support Center for the latest andeD >greatest patches, or, give us more specific details on the problems >you are experiencing. >e >Brad>	 >Regards,e >Brad McCusker0 >OpenVMS Advanced Server Engineering (PATHWORKS) >Compaq Computer Corporation >J4 >All comments contained herein are my own and do not+ >reflect those of anyone or anything else. g  > to followup, the soln for my site, was a newer PWRK$LNSRV.EXE   $     Image Identification Information<                 image file identification: "V7.2-100A-71656"3                 image file build identification: ""e/                 linker identification: "A11-20"-  > Tip of the hat and thanks to the PW support folks for pinning  this one down so quickly.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:58:01 -0400.$ From: "Ray T." <lists@aik.tec.sc.us>0 Subject: Re: Questions about memory (DS20, ES40)- Message-ID: <394EA579.170B27B5@aik.tec.sc.us>    Rudolf Wingert wrote:: >  > Hello, > B > I do have some questions about the memory for the DS20 and ES40.C > I did see, that there is DIMM with 512 MB for the DS10. Can I useiE > four of them per bank on the DS20? Also there are 1024MB DIMMs out. ' > Are they also usable within the DS20?;I > Does anybody know the MHz of DS20 memory? The DS10 memory (SX-MS310-xy)pF > is desribed as 100MHz and the same for XP900 as 87MHz. What's right?G > If I am right, then the memory for the ES40 are a bankmodul with four-H > DIMMs. Can I buy a cheap one (e.g. 128MB for an ES40 AlphaStation) andF > exchange the DIMMs with higher sized cheap standard industry memory? >   > TIA and regards Rudolf Wingert  
 Hi Rudolf,  E I just know the DS10.  It has four slots yes, but when you buy memory C for it from Compaq, you get a pair.  So the max memory is 2GB which C you buy as a qty of two 1GB parts which come as two pairs of memoryOF cards.  Yes you can use an industry standard memory IF it is the rightH type and specs.  BUT to be safe, it would be best to stick to companies I that are approved for maintenance by Compaq and make memory specifically iB marked for the computer you have, such as DataRam and Camintonn.  G Kingston also marks memory as made for DS-10, etc.  Note that the part g0 numbers are different between DS-10 and DS-20's.   Ray T.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 21:28:16 GMTt0 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <shannon@world.std.com>3 Subject: Re: Re[2]: Techwise report on availabilityt& Message-ID: <FwF7Hn.A5K@world.std.com>  7 "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in messageh' news:0033000000036554000002L042*@MHS...	   <snip>   And when did the Gartner< Group did write something positive about VMS the last time ?    K Ummm, probably about the same time the Armani Fashion Clothes Company wrote2 something positive about VMS.3   Cheers,2   Terry ScE Who says NO to Armani Suits and the Losers Who Wear Them (Probabilityn Factor: 1.0)   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 03:31:06 GMTm! From: Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net>t4 Subject: Re: transferring files to/from vms systems?' Message-ID: <394EE57A.C2FEE1FE@vrx.net>   - Sorry I had no idea you wrote the damn thing.a4 I really do like kermit and have nothing against it,J just the only kermit I have on my PC is bundled into telix (dos term prog), which is my favorite term prog by the way... but it is a tad slow that way.  J I'll have a look for a pc dos EXE version as well, I've already downloaded the vms source code.   Much appreciated!    Bd   Frank da Cruz wrote:  M > In article <394D22AD.ADB89299@vrx.net>, Beyonder  <beyonder@vrx.net> wrote:sP > : What's the easiest way given only serial connection access and a regular PC?K > : please don't say pathworks, I don't have it. well, I do, but it's on my 8 > : alpha and I have no easy way to get it off of there. > ::P > : I was thinking kermit or rz/sz stuff, but the problem is I still have to getD > : them onto the vms system in the first place. sort of a catch-22. > :sK > : Unless there is source code somewhere (I can ascii upload then compile)yG > : RZ/SZ would be my preferred choice but I have no idea where to find,9 > : those any more. I haven't seem them in over 10 years.  > : ...  > : ideas? suggestions?f > : 	 > Kermit.  > N > The old old Bliss-language Kermit-32 for VMS is quite small and is availableP > in hex form, for "ascii upload" to VMS.  You didn't say whether the VMS systemQ > in question is VAX or Alpha; assuming it's VAX, see Section I, "Bootstrapping",  > of:E > 1 >   ftp://kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/f/ckvins.txtn >eK > Once you've installed Kermit-32, you can use it to upload the real thing,S > C-Kermit 7.0:  >W/ >   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ckermit.htmlI >u/ > Of course you can also get C-Kermit on CDROM.] >$	 > - FrankP   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jun 2000 23:37:53 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)3 Subject: utility to translate VMS filespecs to Unixt, Message-ID: <8imash$t77@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  K As an aid to integrating Unix derived software on OpenVMS (which is pretty aI much everything these days) I've written a small program that can be run  J from DCL to translate VMS filespecs to Unix filespecs.  These can then be J fed into the Unix programs via DCL without the end user having to know howA to translate one type of filespec to the other.  Pick it up here:   :   http://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/pub/SOFTWARE/VMS_TO_UNIX.C  F It writes the translated file specs to stdout, and in addition, stores1 in the symbol UNIX_FILENAME one of these values: I  3   ""                    no translation was possibleo7   unix file             unique translation was possible(C   // *MULTIPLE * //     multiple matches for a wildcarded file specd  C It takes 2 parameters.  The first is a VMS filespec, and the secondfI is any string, which if present will cause version numbers to be trimmed A off.   Example:   $ cc vms_to_unix $ link vms_to_unix  $ v2u :== $whereever:vms_to_unix $ v2u sys$login:login.com. /sys$login/login.com $ sho sym unix_filename  $ v2u sys$system:*.exe' /sys$sysroot/sysexe/decram$setram.exe.1d( /sys$sysroot/sysexe/decram$setshad.exe.1 /sys$common/sysexe/acc.exe.1 etc. $ sho sym unix_filenamef$   UNIX_FILENAME = "// *MULTIPLE* //"  $ v2u sys$system:*.exe noversion% /sys$sysroot/sysexe/decram$setram.exeo& /sys$sysroot/sysexe/decram$setshad.exe /sys$common/sysexe/acc.exe /sys$common/sysexe/acledt.exeo etc.	 $ v2u "!"i $ sho sym unix_filenamei   UNIX_FILENAME = ""   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edut? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech     ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:58:39 +0000 (   )t3 From: Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com>  Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10006191757010.28416-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com>  ' On Mon, 19 Jun 2000, Bob Koehler wrote:F   > In article <Pine.LNX.4.05.10006180115490.15883-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com>, Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com> writes: > > iMac VMS, anyone? F > > Not so crazy as it may sound... the endianness of a powerpc cpu isJ > > switchable, and it's a 64-bit platform, so it wouldn't be such a largeI > > step back as a port to IA32 would be.  It would also allow you closeroF > > control over the hardware, since apple is very specific with their > > systems.  G > Unfortunately they way Apple ships their PowerPC based systems, thereoI > "hardwired" into big-endian mode.  That is, there's no way for the userbL > to select little endian mode in preparation to booting a little endian OS.  I Really? It must still be possible to write a boot-loader that changes thelJ endian-ness... (then again, macintosh boot-loaders are pretty scarry stuff :)   Regards,   Chris   O =============================================================================== @ "My two cents"			(http://rootworks.com/twocentsworth.cgi?128562)= Christopher Smith(chriss@pubserv.com)			Prgramer^W Programmero Prime Synergy of Champaign, IL. % -------------------------------------hI "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes and H weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes; and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949 rO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------a   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:29:53 +0000 (   )V3 From: Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com>> Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10006191827030.28416-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com>  ' On Mon, 19 Jun 2000, Glen Martin wrote:-  H > The G3's used in the iMac are 32-bit processors. 64-bit PPC chips haveF > existed for quite a while (starting with the 620 used in high-end NTI > servers from Groupe-Bull), but these are used only in high-end servers. H > Apple has yet to release systems based upon 64-bit PPC chips. I've notG > yet seen any info on whether or not the upcoming G4e will be a 64-bithG > processor. This seems likely, as the G4 was originally slated to be af4 > 64-bit processor, but that goal was pushed back...  H Well, it would still be just as justifiable as an IA64 port, then (which) has been tossed about as an idea here...)i  ? I wasn't aware that apple still used the 32-bit version, that'snH interesting.  As for the 64 bit version being used in NT servers, (asideD from "high end nt server" being the best oxymoron I've heard today) J perhaps you know something that I don't, but wasn't the powerpc version of NT scrapped ages ago?K   Regards,   Chris   O ===============================================================================r@ "My two cents"			(http://rootworks.com/twocentsworth.cgi?128562)= Christopher Smith(chriss@pubserv.com)			Prgramer^W Programmer< Prime Synergy of Champaign, IL.C% -------------------------------------0I "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes andtH weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes; and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949  O -------------------------------------------------------------------------------s   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 13:51:16 -0600.1 From: Glen Martin <GLENMARK@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu>0 Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?4 Message-ID: <394E2554.6834CEF0@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu>   Christopher Smith wrote:  J > Well, it would still be just as justifiable as an IA64 port, then (which+ > has been tossed about as an idea here...)   F I agree with you here. No point in porting to a platform which doesn'tH really give you an edge (although a PPC port would provide a boost in FPG performance over either Alpha or x86 - this is where PPC really shines,  not to mention AltiVec).   A > I wasn't aware that apple still used the 32-bit version, that'sLJ > interesting.  As for the 64 bit version being used in NT servers, (asideE > from "high end nt server" being the best oxymoron I've heard today).L > perhaps you know something that I don't, but wasn't the powerpc version of > NT scrapped ages ago?n  E True, "high end" and NT don't really belong in the same sentence, butsD there were heavy-duty NT servers built sporting large numbers of PPCG processors. These systems were discontinued quite some time ago, so I'maE not sure where to point to for a reference. Seems kind of wasteful to F have used a 64-bit processor for a 32-bit OS, but the same thing could  be said in regard to Alpha NT...  H NT, up to and including v4.0, was available in PPC and MIPS versions, in> addition to the x86 and Alpha versions. Long since scrapped...   Glen   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 16:31:01 -0400e) From: "Ebinger . Eric" <EEbinger@drc.com>v Subject: RE: VAX on Intel?B Message-ID: <7162F87E9EF4D311BA9900805FC1D3AE7A6181@and02.drc.com>   > -----Original Message-----: > From: Glen Martin [mailto:GLENMARK@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu] > Christopher Smith wrote: > ; > > Well, it would still be just as justifiable as an IA64 " > port, then (whichb- > > has been tossed about as an idea here...)t > H > I agree with you here. No point in porting to a platform which doesn't? > really give you an edge (although a PPC port would provide a :
 > boost in FP-; > performance over either Alpha or x86 - this is where PPC 2 > really shines, > not to mention AltiVec).  B Excuse me?  Last time I looked (about 30 seconds ago), the leadingG SPECFP (CFP2000) result was an Alphaserver DS20E with a base of 514 andaH a peak of 577 while the best PowerPC result (RS/6000 model 7026-M80) was  330 for base and 382 for peak.   F Unless I am mistaken a bigger number is better so why do you say that G the 'PPC port would provide a boost in FP performance over either Alpha * or x86 - this is where PPC really shines'?     Eric Ebinger   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:04:54 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>m Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?( Message-ID: <8im1m2$6ij$1@pyrite.mv.net>  > Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com> wrote in messageD news:Pine.LNX.4.05.10006191725280.28416-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com...' > On Sun, 18 Jun 2000, Bill Todd wrote:y > H > > (why anyone would expect its acceptance to *increase* as that market moves C > > toward standardization around Linux and Monterey is a mystery).r >iB > Do you realize that you just said "...standardization around ... > Monterey?" >i > What market are you from? :)  H It would be at the very least imprudent to count out Monterey before IBMJ gives up on it, which does not currently appear to be the case (since theyK include it in their Linux discussions as a 'big brother' kind of relation).t  I Monterey certainly seems to be the *only* competitor to Linux in the Unix.J standardization sweeps:  IBM supports it, Compaq still claims it will (notJ only on IA platforms but in Tru64, last I knew), SCO's still on board (forI whatever that may be worth), and I think HP as well - and perhaps others,  since I haven't kept track.7  L So while Monterey may not be getting the press it got a year ago, it's still there and worth mentioning.    - bill   >f
 > Regards, >e > Chris  >t > L ============================================================================ ===f@ > "My two cents" (http://rootworks.com/twocentsworth.cgi?128562)= > Christopher Smith(chriss@pubserv.com) Prgramer^W Programmerr! > Prime Synergy of Champaign, IL. ' > -------------------------------------AK > "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes andrJ > weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes< > and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949L > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----t >p >l   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 16:08:50 -0500 % From: Chris Scheers <asi@airmail.net>  Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?O Message-ID: <8A1FA1FCF688B67C.7E568DE71CC6C391.8D12F00C98E4F6D7@lp.airnews.net>n   Glen Martin wrote: >  > Christopher Smith wrote: > L > > Well, it would still be just as justifiable as an IA64 port, then (which- > > has been tossed about as an idea here...)7 > H > I agree with you here. No point in porting to a platform which doesn'tJ > really give you an edge (although a PPC port would provide a boost in FPI > performance over either Alpha or x86 - this is where PPC really shines,  > not to mention AltiVec).  @ You are missing the point.  A VMS port isn't needed to provide aH performance edge.  A port is needed to provide a market edge.  The point; of this port would be to provide an affordable entry level.u  E It may be a poor analogy, but consider Linux.  An Alpha port of LinuxrE exists.  This is arguably the most powerfull Linux port available, soc- why should there be any other ports of Linux?E  F If the only port of Linux was for a DS20, it might be a nice port, butC do you think that the market at large would even be aware of Linux?e  F That Linux can run on the hardware !!!THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE!!! is what' has let Linux spread as much as it has.w  G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  G 817-237-3360 (Voice)    817-237-3074 (Fax)    Internet: asi@airmail.netr   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 21:34:03 +0000 (   )b3 From: Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com>  Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10006192130320.28416-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com>  ) On Mon, 19 Jun 2000, Chris Scheers wrote:n   > Glen Martin wrote:J > > I agree with you here. No point in porting to a platform which doesn'tL > > really give you an edge (although a PPC port would provide a boost in FPK > > performance over either Alpha or x86 - this is where PPC really shines,t > > not to mention AltiVec).  B > You are missing the point.  A VMS port isn't needed to provide aJ > performance edge.  A port is needed to provide a market edge.  The point= > of this port would be to provide an affordable entry level.m  ; I'd personally consider powerpc before intel.  I'd bet thatmF apple has a 64-bit powerpc box that wouldn't be too bad for just above $1000 us soon. e  8 That's entry level (albeit high entry level) in my book.  H > If the only port of Linux was for a DS20, it might be a nice port, butE > do you think that the market at large would even be aware of Linux?   H > That Linux can run on the hardware !!!THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE!!! is what) > has let Linux spread as much as it has.m  C Taken a step further, and to further my own point, in the case of a J commercial product, well-advertised and running on an entry level machine,I whether or not you've got one of those machines allready, would likely beA enough.o   Regards,   Chrise  O ===============================================================================o@ "My two cents"			(http://rootworks.com/twocentsworth.cgi?128562)= Christopher Smith(chriss@pubserv.com)			Prgramer^W Programmer  Prime Synergy of Champaign, IL.h% ------------------------------------- I "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes andnH weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes; and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949 aO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------u   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:24:37 -04000- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?, Message-ID: <394E9DA1.FE809C73@videotron.ca>   Chris Scheers wrote:B > You are missing the point.  A VMS port isn't needed to provide aJ > performance edge.  A port is needed to provide a market edge.  The point= > of this port would be to provide an affordable entry level.e  K I disagree. If Alpha is priced too high, it is just because of that: pricedd	 too high.r  L If Compaq were interested in making VMS affordable and competitive, it wouldJ have done so. It hasn't. Compaq is very intent on keeping VMS in its smallE niche in one corner (actually: cornered) part of the market, and pusht# Microsoft products everywhere else.b  N For as long as Compaq is not interested in using VMS's scalability and make itJ an affordable operating system, nothing will happen. And the minute CompaqM does, for some reasom, gain such anm interest, it needs only adjust its price  lists. Ports are not necessary.i  I If Compaq were interested in making Alpha a commodity "INDUSTRY STANDARD"mI chip, it would have done so. But Compaq prefers to push its definition ofi$ industry standard: INTEL 8086 chips.  M If Compaq were interested in making Alpha an industry standard, it would havelM lowered the prices to make it competitive and raise market share and volumes.CL If Apple was able to do this with its PPC chips, Comapq should be able to do it with Alpha.  H I think that Compaq did not buy Digital or Tandem, it bought Digital andJ Tandem's customers, hoping to succeed where Palmer failed: convert them toL Microsoft platforms and ship even greater volumes of billyboxes to beat Dell and Gateway.    N The goodwill that was generated when Compaq inherited VMS and stopped activelyL killing it will eventually fade off when customers realise that Compaq isn'tI really going to resurect VMS, it will just keep it on life support (still L better than the days when Palmer would inject poison into VMS hoping to kill it off faster than necessary).  H Once Tandem is migrated to Alpha, VMS won't have much use to enterprisesK anymore. They'll be able to get true fault tolerance with Alpha performance,L with Guardian/NSK, and be able to get all of VMS's clustering abilities in a8 True64 unix. So why botherw ith the more expensive VMS ?  L Just because you commit to VMS for 15 years does not mean that you commit toM making it a succesful platform. All it means is that Compaq commits to at theS$ very least keep VMS on life support.   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:45:00 GMTr0 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <shannon@world.std.com> Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?& Message-ID: <FwFBMn.2uH@world.std.com>  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:394E9DA1.FE809C73@videotron.ca... > Chris Scheers wrote:D > > You are missing the point.  A VMS port isn't needed to provide aL > > performance edge.  A port is needed to provide a market edge.  The point? > > of this port would be to provide an affordable entry level.p >.F > I disagree. If Alpha is priced too high, it is just because of that: priced > too high.h > H > If Compaq were interested in making VMS affordable and competitive, it wouldqL > have done so. It hasn't. Compaq is very intent on keeping VMS in its smallG > niche in one corner (actually: cornered) part of the market, and pushn% > Microsoft products everywhere else.   G Yeah, yeah, yeah!!! Just listen to the Microsoft mantra from Yeaton anda Marcello!!!i    ( Didn't hear it??? Well, neither did I!!! >rH > For as long as Compaq is not interested in using VMS's scalability and make itdL > an affordable operating system, nothing will happen. And the minute CompaqI > does, for some reasom, gain such anm interest, it needs only adjust its  pricee! > lists. Ports are not necessary.: >iK > If Compaq were interested in making Alpha a commodity "INDUSTRY STANDARD"eK > chip, it would have done so. But Compaq prefers to push its definition ofd& > industry standard: INTEL 8086 chips.  < Hmmm... CPQ hasn't pushed 8086 chips for more than a decade.   > J > If Compaq were interested in making Alpha an industry standard, it would haveF > lowered the prices to make it competitive and raise market share and volumes.K > If Apple was able to do this with its PPC chips, Comapq should be able toe do > it with Alpha.  I Umm hmm.. and tell me about the commodity pricing you've seen for AIX andy! MVS on these PPC chips, hehehe...-   >-J > I think that Compaq did not buy Digital or Tandem, it bought Digital andL > Tandem's customers, hoping to succeed where Palmer failed: convert them toI > Microsoft platforms and ship even greater volumes of billyboxes to beat  Dell > and Gateway.  E Yeah, right... the Tandem folks are bending over backwards to migratea5 best-your-business customers from NSK to Windows 3.1.r     >w >eG > The goodwill that was generated when Compaq inherited VMS and stoppedn activelyH > killing it will eventually fade off when customers realise that Compaq isn'thK > really going to resurect VMS, it will just keep it on life support (stillcI > better than the days when Palmer would inject poison into VMS hoping toe kill  > it off faster than necessary). >yJ > Once Tandem is migrated to Alpha, VMS won't have much use to enterprisesA > anymore. They'll be able to get true fault tolerance with Alphae performanceiL > with Guardian/NSK, and be able to get all of VMS's clustering abilities in a : > True64 unix. So why botherw ith the more expensive VMS ?  E Duhhh... because OpenVMS apps don't run on NSK? Or is that too damned 
 obvious???   >=K > Just because you commit to VMS for 15 years does not mean that you commitM toK > making it a succesful platform. All it means is that Compaq commits to at( thes& > very least keep VMS on life support.  K Whatever you say, pal. I'd like to know, how many OpenVMS licenses have youe bought in the past decade?   None?d  K Well, that's about how much your soapbox is worth. Whining about Bob Palmere9 two years after his departure has little impact any more.l  5 It's good for comic relief, but precious little else.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:39:07 -0500-* From: Keith Brown <kbrown780@usfamily.net> Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?, Message-ID: <394EAF1B.60447458@usfamily.net>   Chris Scheers wrote: >  > Glen Martin wrote: > >9 > > Christopher Smith wrote: > >.N > > > Well, it would still be just as justifiable as an IA64 port, then (which/ > > > has been tossed about as an idea here...)x > > J > > I agree with you here. No point in porting to a platform which doesn'tL > > really give you an edge (although a PPC port would provide a boost in FPK > > performance over either Alpha or x86 - this is where PPC really shines,  > > not to mention AltiVec). > B > You are missing the point.  A VMS port isn't needed to provide aJ > performance edge.  A port is needed to provide a market edge.  The point= > of this port would be to provide an affordable entry level.r > G > It may be a poor analogy, but consider Linux.  An Alpha port of LinuxtG > exists.  This is arguably the most powerfull Linux port available, soe/ > why should there be any other ports of Linux?  > H > If the only port of Linux was for a DS20, it might be a nice port, butE > do you think that the market at large would even be aware of Linux?s > H > That Linux can run on the hardware !!!THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE!!! is what) > has let Linux spread as much as it has.= > I > -----------------------------------------------------------------------e& > Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc. > I > 817-237-3360 (Voice)    817-237-3074 (Fax)    Internet: asi@airmail.net-
 >The point= > of this port would be to provide an affordable entry level.e  ; You are assuming that IA64 will be priced lower that Alpha.,) Everything I have read so says otherwise.    -- l Keith Brown  kbrown780@usfamily.net   ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 23:47:22 +0000 (   )-3 From: Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com>1 Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10006192343220.28416-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com>  , On Mon, 19 Jun 2000, Terry C. Shannon wrote:  K > Umm hmm.. and tell me about the commodity pricing you've seen for AIX and4# > MVS on these PPC chips, hehehe...   J Ok, I'm going to bite here, and ask what _is_ the relative price of MVS on
 a powerpc?  I Is it in the VMS-on-alpha ballpark?  Because if it's lower, compaq reallytG should try a bit harder to compete. (That's VMS competition if anythingh9 is... and there's not even much difference in the name ;)   J Maybe they could even offer a "competative upgrade," as the saying goes...   Regards,   Chrisi  O ===============================================================================d@ "My two cents"			(http://rootworks.com/twocentsworth.cgi?128562)= Christopher Smith(chriss@pubserv.com)			Prgramer^W Programmern Prime Synergy of Champaign, IL.t% -------------------------------------yI "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes andtH weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes; and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949  O -------------------------------------------------------------------------------A   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 18:33:01 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?+ Message-ID: <394E9F99.7E3B318@videotron.ca>a   One other point.  J Under Digital, Digital rarely , if ever, adjusted the price of its devicesM once they were released. For instance, an RD54 was still selling in the $9000 M range until the very end, at a time when you could get SCSI drives at one giguJ for a couple hundred dollars. Had Digital lowered the price of the RD54 toI keep pace with the market, it would have been able to sell its inventory.u  H Now, Compaq has an opportunity to offload a whole bunch of VAX machines,L which, by today's standards, are very slow, and slower than an off the shelfJ Nintendo 64 or 8086 toy. Imagine if Compaq were to sell 1000 such VAXes toF hobbysist who got Hobbyist licenses. Those 1000 would clamour for moreG software and perhaps a certain percentage of them would actually bother0N writing or porting software to VMS. The added momentum to VMS would bring moreN apps and give VMS a much better image. And you'd also have 1000 people talkingL about their home VMS systems when they are at work and propose VMS solutionsK instead of NT etc. You'd get perhaps a "free" 500 strong sales force of VMS < folks because they were able to buy cheap VAXes from Compaq.    N Compaq complains that the Alpha chip costs too much to produce ? Then sell VAXK machines at a price set to match today,s performance expectations. If a VAXmK 3100 equals a 300mhz PC, then sell it at the same price as what a 300mhz PCtK sells for today (plus a small markup iof you are using better scsi drives).o      N I get the feeling that Compaq deliberatly keeps prices high because it doesn'tL really want to sell VAXes because it wants a large enough inventory of spare5 parts to maintain all the VAXes still on maintenance.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:05:20 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>b Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?( Message-ID: <8imj9c$psb$1@pyrite.mv.net>  5 Keith Brown <kbrown780@usfamily.net> wrote in message(& news:394EAF1B.60447458@usfamily.net... > Chris Scheers wrote:   ...n  J > > That Linux can run on the hardware !!!THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE!!! is what+ > > has let Linux spread as much as it has.M > >oK > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------l( > > Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc. > >rK > > 817-237-3360 (Voice)    817-237-3074 (Fax)    Internet: asi@airmail.neta > >The point? > > of this port would be to provide an affordable entry level.e >a= > You are assuming that IA64 will be priced lower that Alpha. + > Everything I have read so says otherwise.=  J That certainly seems likely to be true for at least a while.  However, theL last point Chris made (which I included above) remains valid, and was likely> more important to Linux's (at least early) success than price.  J The question is whether VMS would have any chance of duplicating the LinuxB phenomenon.  If you suspect (as I do) that a great deal of Linux'sK popularity was due to  1) abhorrence of Microsoft,  2) academic exposure to H Unix, and  3) zero cost, then VMS fails completely on point 2 and, givenL that Linux already satisfies points 1 and 3, doesn't have the vacuum to fill that Linux did.-  E There's also the question of why the free BSD variants didn't succeediL earlier.  One might guess at reasons like  a) Linus is kind of a neat figureK to focus on and  b) GNU licensing has a powerful constituency and organizedhI backing, unlike the other open-source variants.  Once again, VMS fails to D qualify for success on these grounds:  Cutler, even if he were stillK available, isn't exactly as friendly a co-implementor as Linus is, and it'sdC not clear that GNU licensing would be in VMS's interests (let alonea
 Compaq's).  J In sum, I don't see that VMS has any chance at all of following in Linux'sK footsteps:  I suspect it will have to fight every step of the way, based oneJ its virtues and hopefully with aggressive assistance from Compaq in makingK it as familiar, approachable, and (if it ever becomes viable at the extreme D low end on other counts) affordable as its more popular competition.   - bill   >i > --
 > Keith Brownt > kbrown780@usfamily.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:06:38 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>p Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?, Message-ID: <394ED1A8.70F1F33D@videotron.ca>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote: I > Yeah, yeah, yeah!!! Just listen to the Microsoft mantra from Yeaton andu
 > Marcello!!!  > * > Didn't hear it??? Well, neither did I!!!  M But I heard Capellas support for Microsoft, and Capellas' renewed pushing for(
 Exchange etc.3  I If all I hear from Compaq is support for Microsoft and True64 and nothing J about PUSHING VMS, don't I have a legitimate right to conclude that Compaq: does not wish to push VMS, it only wishes to maintain it ?  G > Yeah, right... the Tandem folks are bending over backwards to migrateM7 > best-your-business customers from NSK to Windows 3.1.r  M Tandem has a VERY captive niche market. VMS's market is far less captive. The M one aspect that VMS had that differentated it from the others was clustering, J and the others are quickly adopting enough clustering to make themselves a= worthy platform with more applications than VMS has to offer.   J So, when Tandem gets decent performance once migrated to Alpha, and offersL true fault tolerance, what will VMS still have to offer that neither NSK norM True64 can offer ? What edge will VMS have, except its reputation for qualitya and high prices ?b    G > Duhhh... because OpenVMS apps don't run on NSK? Or is that too damnedh > obvious???  N VMS has a much greater affinity with Unix than Tandem NSK does.  There are notM many VMS apps that have not been ported to Unix. So keeping a VMS customer onlK VMS is harder than keeping an NSK customer on Tandem, simply because TandemU/ offers unique features not available elsewhere.a  M > Whatever you say, pal. I'd like to know, how many OpenVMS licenses have youa > bought in the past decade?  N All the cutsomers for whom I got/setup VMS systems have either alredy migratedN away from VMS or have plans to do so in the next 2 years. You may be fortunateK to see some of the good sides of the coin, but I am seing the other side of=	 the coin.   M > Well, that's about how much your soapbox is worth. Whining about Bob Palmerh; > two years after his departure has little impact any more.C  K But whining about Compaq not having completely changed the wrong directionst) undertaken by Palmer is worth discussing.e  H It is pointless to discuss cheap VMS on Intel or whatever when Compaq isL clearly not interested in having a cheap or competitive entry level VMS that5 has enough high visibility to attract some attention.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:26:51 -04001' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>p Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?( Message-ID: <8imm6g$1m3$1@pyrite.mv.net>  G JF can be strident, annoying, and just plain wrong.  On the other hand,nH while his conspiracy theories about Compaq may seem extreme and short onF hard evidence, it remains true that Compaq has had 2 years now to turnJ around the poisonous attitude DEC had toward VMS (is there any doubt aboutL the historical accuracy of attempts to move VMS customers to NT, or, failing< that, Digital Unix?) and has precious little to show for it.  K One can explain this away as acquisition indigestion for only so long.  AndeJ while signs of an up-turn exist, they're far from sufficiently dramatic toL be very reassuring (though if they *continue* to *accelerate*, this would noJ longer be the case).  And as far as I know there is absolutely no evidenceD of Compaq being willing to push Alpha instead of IA solutions in anyL situation where both are reasonably applicable:  while the VMS/Tru64 balanceL may have shifted toward something at least somewhat more equal (though stillJ far from *really* equal), the corporate emphasis (i.e., nothing Yeaton andJ Marcello have any direct control over) still seems firmly IA-(and at least largely Windows-)oriented.  G So any optimism should be at best guarded and conditional on continuingdH change.  If one looks at the past decade, one has little reason to hope:F perhaps VMS now gets to sit in the back seat of the Tru64 Alpha escortL vehicle, instead of being dragged behind on a rope, while IA32 and soon IA64G ride in the lead limo (Tandem's in a different motorcade altogether, ateL least for now).  When we see them all together in the limo, then there'll beD cause for real rejoicing; until then, great sighs of relief from VMSK advocates could easily serve as a message to Compaq that no further changesg are needed.V   - bill  9 Terry C. Shannon <shannon@world.std.com> wrote in messagew  news:FwFBMn.2uH@world.std.com... >M< > "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message( > news:394E9DA1.FE809C73@videotron.ca... > > Chris Scheers wrote:F > > > You are missing the point.  A VMS port isn't needed to provide aH > > > performance edge.  A port is needed to provide a market edge.  The pointrA > > > of this port would be to provide an affordable entry level.u > >uH > > I disagree. If Alpha is priced too high, it is just because of that: > priced
 > > too high.t > >sJ > > If Compaq were interested in making VMS affordable and competitive, it > would-H > > have done so. It hasn't. Compaq is very intent on keeping VMS in its smallnI > > niche in one corner (actually: cornered) part of the market, and pushM' > > Microsoft products everywhere else.e >pI > Yeah, yeah, yeah!!! Just listen to the Microsoft mantra from Yeaton and.
 > Marcello!!!r >r >:* > Didn't hear it??? Well, neither did I!!! > >tJ > > For as long as Compaq is not interested in using VMS's scalability and	 > make it G > > an affordable operating system, nothing will happen. And the minutel CompaqK > > does, for some reasom, gain such anm interest, it needs only adjust itsd > pricei# > > lists. Ports are not necessary.  > >kC > > If Compaq were interested in making Alpha a commodity "INDUSTRYs	 STANDARD" J > > chip, it would have done so. But Compaq prefers to push its definition of( > > industry standard: INTEL 8086 chips. >s> > Hmmm... CPQ hasn't pushed 8086 chips for more than a decade. >o > >ML > > If Compaq were interested in making Alpha an industry standard, it would > haveH > > lowered the prices to make it competitive and raise market share and
 > volumes.J > > If Apple was able to do this with its PPC chips, Comapq should be able to > do > > it with Alpha. >oK > Umm hmm.. and tell me about the commodity pricing you've seen for AIX anda# > MVS on these PPC chips, hehehe...e >i > >sL > > I think that Compaq did not buy Digital or Tandem, it bought Digital andK > > Tandem's customers, hoping to succeed where Palmer failed: convert themT toK > > Microsoft platforms and ship even greater volumes of billyboxes to beat  > Dell > > and Gateway. >eG > Yeah, right... the Tandem folks are bending over backwards to migratec7 > best-your-business customers from NSK to Windows 3.1.u >. >  > >p > >sI > > The goodwill that was generated when Compaq inherited VMS and stoppedt
 > activelyJ > > killing it will eventually fade off when customers realise that Compaq > isn'teF > > really going to resurect VMS, it will just keep it on life support (stillK > > better than the days when Palmer would inject poison into VMS hoping tom > kill" > > it off faster than necessary). > > L > > Once Tandem is migrated to Alpha, VMS won't have much use to enterprisesC > > anymore. They'll be able to get true fault tolerance with Alphaa
 > performanceiK > > with Guardian/NSK, and be able to get all of VMS's clustering abilities  in > a < > > True64 unix. So why botherw ith the more expensive VMS ? >lG > Duhhh... because OpenVMS apps don't run on NSK? Or is that too damnedy > obvious??? >t > > F > > Just because you commit to VMS for 15 years does not mean that you commit > toJ > > making it a succesful platform. All it means is that Compaq commits to at > theT( > > very least keep VMS on life support. >cI > Whatever you say, pal. I'd like to know, how many OpenVMS licenses havee you  > bought in the past decade? >d > None?a >bF > Well, that's about how much your soapbox is worth. Whining about Bob Palmer; > two years after his departure has little impact any more.S >p7 > It's good for comic relief, but precious little else.  >  >u >b   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:55:00 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>a Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?( Message-ID: <8imm6s$1m3$2@pyrite.mv.net>  @ David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message' news:394ED4C7.86A261F0@earthlink.net...d   ...   J > I don't care if it runs on S/390, Timex/Sinclair or TRS-80, even ENIAC -H > so long as I can get past the price barrier in a sales effort, I don't. > care if it runs on a credit-card calculator.  E To be blunt, David, Compaq doesn't care if you can get past the price0I barrier in a sales effort, unless there are enough customers for you (andn8 others like you) to make the sale profitable for Compaq.  L The fact that it's a problem for you is irrelevant unless it's a problem for, Compaq that they can solve cost-effectively.   - bill   >  > _NOW_ do you understand???!!!  >nG > ...of course, if it DID run on ((.NOT. ALPHA) .AND. (.NOT. VAX)), I'do > hardly be one to complain! >h > -- > David J. Dachterao > dba DJE Systems $ > http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/ > < > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:- > http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 03:53:41 GMTf2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?5 Message-ID: <9VB35.162$6C1.38624@typhoon.aracnet.com>   : In comp.os.vms David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote: > "Zane H. Healy" wrote:P > For personal VMS usage, there must be personal productivity applications.  NotP > really there now.  Definitely won't be until there is a market for them.  sort > of a catch-22 situation.  J True, I'll admit most people aren't willing to write up their documents inD HTML and then print them using Netscape, rather than use Windows :^)  L > For the decent systems, that don't require 3-phase power, there is still aQ > decent demand.  VAXstation 3100s and older are more suitable as museum pieces.  L > Before making statements about this, I'd like to see the numbers for hobby" > licenses.  Might be interesting.  I I was very happy to get the MicroVAX II, I got a couple years ago, littleeK did I realize it was the start of a long downward spiral, of better systemsl finally ending in my PWS433au!  N >> Maybe the people wanting VMS systems at home don't want an inexpensive VAX.M >> My main system is a PWS433au w/320MB RAM, 24-bit colour, and UW-SCSI.  I'doO >> rather not use a VAX for anything other than a server, and my main server isoN >> a AlphaStation 200 4/233.  You should consider the availability of Alpha's,0 >> and the cost of systems such as the PWS433au.  Q > Now, there's something I think the MS crowd doesn't do as much.  Servers in thesP > home.  Hey, could be wrong.  With wintel, a server is usually for file storageQ > and centralizing printers.  On VMS, the server can be used for all activities.  C > Of course, there's the previously mentioned lack of applications.n  G Well, most home users probably don't need a server, I've got two of theaH AlphaStation 200 4/233's acting as servers.  Unfortuantly one is runningJ OpenBSD as OpenVMS doesn't appear to make a good Firewall/NAT machine.  MyJ third server is a MicroVAX 3 w/RA72's and RA73's.  It's main purpose is as$ an archive server, and is rarely on.  E The AlphaStation 200 4/233 server running OpenVMS acts as a print andeL fileserver for every other system in the house, plus since it's always up, I$ am often logged into it doing stuff.  H This probably shows how out of touch I am with the normal user :^)  AlsoI probably shows I've got such a twisted view of computers that I shouldn't-> even be in a conversation about how to grow the customer base!  O > Actually, I'd bet you could get a DS10 for $3000.  Street prices can be lowerjM > than retail, and retail is only about $3,500 for the hardware.  VMS on thise3 > system shouldn't cost the same as VMS on an ES40.a  K Don't tell me that :^)  That's the last thing I need to hear.  Thankfully I4? think that the PWS433au is about as fast as I need for a while.t  J > Oh, eligible is Ok, but not for free for 3 years the same as a much more > expensive system.h  I You're right, that makes more sense.  I wasn't aware that the support was K free since I'm only buying used systems, and I'm not in the group that usesc these at work.  P > Well, how about a currently fictional DS02?  PC type price.  PC type service. Q > PC type warranty.  Nothing Compaq will make big money on, but how much money do O > you derive solely from spending money on a page in the WSJ?  Not the businesssR > generated, just for spending the money.  There's more than one method to use forN > advertising, and there's more than promotional benefit in having hundreds ofQ > thousands of VMS systems in places where people will see them.  Use Monitor for Q > the screen saver, and the up-time will be readily visable. Of course, this will"R > not work with those who insist on powering off their computers when not in use.  > Can't win 'em all.  6 Add a cheap cluster license and they'd have a winner!   G >> How many business would find it practical to buy a system that isn'tpK >> eligible for a maintenance contract?  Of course such a restriction would = >> probably just result in some 3rd party offering just that.y >> e >>                         Zane P > No such thing.  Compaq may decrease their warranty coverage, but for a serviceH > organization to refuse to sell a maintenance contract?  Bad statement.  I You're right, I wasn't thinking that through clearly.  For one thing they-I can make some of their money on the machine on the maintenance contract.  > Unless the customer decides to forgo the maintenance contract.   				Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 00:16:50 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?, Message-ID: <394EF02F.6A4174B1@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:G > To be blunt, David, Compaq doesn't care if you can get past the price-K > barrier in a sales effort, unless there are enough customers for you (ande: > others like you) to make the sale profitable for Compaq.  K Not sure profits are that important. Look at Compaq's insistance at pushingoI "industry standard" platforms (eg: Intel 8086 servers) instead of its owntK platforms which are more profitable. Look at Compaq's insistance on pushingo Windows over VMS.c  K I think that Compaq is still measured by Wall Street in number of intel PCstM shipped and not in terms of CPU power. Compaq looks better when it sells 1000aF PCs than when it sells a single Wildfire, even if the same of a single6 Wildfire yields more processing power and more profit.  J During a recent presentation, the new president of compaq Canada did admitH that Compaq was still seen and measured as a PC company, but in the next= months they would take serious action to try to correct that.g  J Until they stop being measured in terms of PCs shipped, by wall street andH trade rags, Compaq has no choice but to continue to push to sell as many billyboxes as it can.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 23:15:19 -0500e7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>t Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?, Message-ID: <394EEFD7.E33122B@earthlink.net>   Bill Todd wrote: > B > David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message) > news:394ED4C7.86A261F0@earthlink.net...- >  > ...  > L > > I don't care if it runs on S/390, Timex/Sinclair or TRS-80, even ENIAC -J > > so long as I can get past the price barrier in a sales effort, I don't0 > > care if it runs on a credit-card calculator. > G > To be blunt, David, Compaq doesn't care if you can get past the pricelK > barrier in a sales effort, unless there are enough customers for you (andb: > others like you) to make the sale profitable for Compaq. > N > The fact that it's a problem for you is irrelevant unless it's a problem for. > Compaq that they can solve cost-effectively.  ! Question: Is my situation unique?o   Hints:  H 1. Ask others in the same position (as I haev suggested numerous times).  E 2. Review the archive of this newgroup at http://www.deja.com/ (in sor" far as that's currently possible).  H It's been said that there are none so blind as those who will not see. IF encourage you to open both your eyes and your mind. Your zeal for yourG position is admirable; however, I question the virtue of your position,c! just as you do so regarding mine.s   It's simple math, really:6  D No resellers = no sales (unless you sell directly, and Compaq is notB known for their direct web sales capability, so that's pretty much that).   No sales = no profits.   No profits = no investors.   No investors = R.I.P. OpenVMSu  E Actually, again speaking from personal experience (YMMV), the OpenVMSvF market in metro Chicago, is, for all practical purposes, already dead.F Again, ask the others who sell in this market since you obviously have no intention of believing me.u  + Go ahead. I'll be here when you get back...f  G ...oh yeah: and be sure to ask them what one factor consistently knocksdD them out of the running, even when a RFP response DOES get reviewed.  F Regardless of how much Compaq thinks they're making on each sale, thatC value is insignificant compared to the money they're losing on lostn sales.  G Maybe Compaq grosses $x billion on OpenVMS related sales. They probablytF lose 30 times that on sales that go to competitors. (Moral: Margins beB damned if they lose business (read: profits) to your competitors.)   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsl" http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:+ http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/y   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 22:09:32 +0200t  From: Paul Sture <paul@sture.ch> Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?+ Message-ID: <VA.00000072.000395a5@sture.ch>y  I In article <84y25.73$6C1.12907@typhoon.aracnet.com>, Zane H. Healy wrote:o4 > From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> > Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?( > Newsgroups: comp.org.decus,comp.os.vms% > Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 22:43:16 GMTe > 7 > In comp.os.vms Bill Todd <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote:eK > > So that's one reason that an 'affordable' VMS in the Windows (let aloneiJ > > Linux) cost range might be hard to achieve (it works with the hobbyistL > > license precisely because such people don't need support, but that's not" > > true of commercial customers). > G > Perhaps it would make sense to sell varying levels of support.  I'm a-D > Hobbyist, BUT I'd be very happy to buy a full blown system withoutN > restrictions if it was affordable.  I don't need support, with the exception > of access to the patches.  > 
 Same here.  M > Still, I've got to wonder if there would be enough demand to make somethingtI > like this work Compaq's time.  Let's be realistic.  How many people arenI > there activelly using OpenVMS at home?  A few thousand I'd guess.  MostdE > people want more, and understandably.  I was working on my main VMS M > Workstation at home last night and had to switch over to my Mac in order toh/ > be able to run a chat client I needed to run.l > N Well, if I had one I'd be seriously considering filling in some of those gaps.  K > > Recently, it's been easy to pick up inexpensive VAXen with licensed VMShK > > systems on them for a few hundred dollars (comparable to an entry-level N > > Win98 home system).  This suggests strongly how much demand there would beP > > for very-low-end VMS systems if Compaq went to the trouble of creating them: > > just about none. > N > Maybe the people wanting VMS systems at home don't want an inexpensive VAX. L > My main system is a PWS433au w/320MB RAM, 24-bit colour, and UW-SCSI.  I'dN > rather not use a VAX for anything other than a server, and my main server isM > a AlphaStation 200 4/233.  You should consider the availability of Alpha's,n/ > and the cost of systems such as the PWS433au.k >tN Having had a VAXstation 2000 ten years ago, I really don't want to go back to K those speeds, or the ever shrinking screen and none too long lasting, slow eL RD54s. A colleague was offering me an old VAX last week and her comment was O "it's not too slow if you do a minimum boot" ;-) I also want enough disk space hO to put the latest and greatest version of VMS on without going to the very old h second hand market.   H > > To me, this suggests that expansion of the VMS user base (which I doN > > consider a desirable goal, and suspect Larry does as well) is not going toN > > come via the route you're advocating - at least not in the present climateL > > and with VMS's present (lack of) industry visibility and acceptance.  WeM > > should be thankful that it's possible to purchase a new (DS10) VMS systempK > > for $5000 - $6500 (depending on options), which puts it well within the H > > range of any small business that needs VMS, and look to other marketJ > > segments (all of which offer greater margins and profit potential) for > > expansion opportunities. > N > How much better would a system like this without any support do if it was inK > the $2-3000 range?  That would put it in the range of a good Windows PC.  M > Personally I don't expect *any* support on a Windows PC.  Sell them at thatrF > price range, and have them flagged as being ineligible for a support > contract.   P Why permanently ineligible for a support contract? Surely it would be better to Q sell it with no support at the moment, with the option to get support later when e  you have grown and then need it?  A > I'd love a DS10, but unless there is a significant price drop IAL > won't be able to think about affording them until they start showing up in) > significant numbers on the used market.. >rO Whatever happened to the rumoured DS05? Depending on the maximum configuration m  limits, that might fit the bill.  F > How many business would find it practical to buy a system that isn'tJ > eligible for a maintenance contract?  Of course such a restriction would< > probably just result in some 3rd party offering just that. >   P As you said earlier, as long as I had legitimate access to the ECOs, I and many N others would be quite happy without support. After all, we do have newsgroups  for the day to day stuff. :-)P  M And I might be happy to offer that 3rd party support if there was sufficient  Q demand at some point in the future, subject to whatever licencing considerations i there may be, of course. ___ 
 Paul Sture Switzerland    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 21:19:51 -0500g7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>i Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?- Message-ID: <394ED4C7.86A261F0@earthlink.net>e   Bill Todd wrote: > B > David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message) > news:394D8B79.FB31859F@earthlink.net...  > > Bill Todd wrote: > > > > > > > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message, > > > news:394D19A6.E14B3E41@videotron.ca... > > > > Bill Todd wrote:J > > > > > Compaq needs to make a profit on the endeavor to justify it.  So > far,	 > > > yout; > > > > > have produced no convincing evidence that it can.e > > > >wF > > > > No, the real philosophical question is really: Compaq needs to > prioritize	 > > > theeB > > > > pushing of products which are more profitable than others. > Unfortunatly,eH > > > > Compaq is intent on pushing Bill Gates products which yield very > little > > > profit8 > > > > at the expense of much more profitable products. > > > >eI > > > > Even if VMS were priced competitively with W2K, I am convinced ite
 > would beJ > > > > more profitable overall than selling a wintel box where all of the > margin
 > > > goes > > > > to Microsoft.n > > > I > > > You miss the point:  it would not be profitable at all if none were  > sold,aN > > > but would still cost Compaq a lot of money to develop/port, stock, train > > > support for, ... > > >o > > > - bill > >  > > Can you say, "Marketing"?i > K > Leaving aside the very real issue of whether *Compaq* can say "Marketing"iM > (at least in any area related to VMS), it's entirely possible that the mostiK > brilliant marketing efforts in the world couldn't move VMS in this market M > segment.  While it's easy enough for you to assert that VMS would be viable0I > there, you're not the one who gets to evaluate that possibility (or gete" > fired if s/he decides unwisely). > K > As I've said before, your personal enthusiasm is really no substitute forsJ > convincing evidence of several hundred thousand (as an absolute minimum)I > other similarly-motivated VMS enthusiasts who just can't justify a DS10 I > purchase but would jump at the chance to buy a less-expensive VMS on IA-N > hardware.  Come back when you've gathered such evidence, or expect Compaq to& > continue to ignore your suggestions.  = I think you're still missing the point of "Affordable", Bill.t  % In BASIC notation: Affordable <> IA32   ! In C notation: Affordable != IA32i  * In DCL notation: "Affordable" .NES. "IA32"   Got it now?s  H I don't care if it runs on S/390, Timex/Sinclair or TRS-80, even ENIAC -F so long as I can get past the price barrier in a sales effort, I don't, care if it runs on a credit-card calculator.   _NOW_ do you understand???!!!t  E ...of course, if it DID run on ((.NOT. ALPHA) .AND. (.NOT. VAX)), I'dp hardly be one to complain!   --   David J. Dachteral dba DJE Systemsm" http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:+ http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/:   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 21:58:12 -0500 * From: Keith Brown <kbrown780@usfamily.net> Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?, Message-ID: <394EDDC4.5E994D61@usfamily.net>   Bill Todd wrote: > 7 > Keith Brown <kbrown780@usfamily.net> wrote in messagel( > news:394EAF1B.60447458@usfamily.net... > > Chris Scheers wrote: >  > ...  > L > > > That Linux can run on the hardware !!!THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE!!! is what- > > > has let Linux spread as much as it has.n > > >nM > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------s* > > > Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc. > > >dM > > > 817-237-3360 (Voice)    817-237-3074 (Fax)    Internet: asi@airmail.net, > > >The pointA > > > of this port would be to provide an affordable entry level.  > >h? > > You are assuming that IA64 will be priced lower that Alpha.i- > > Everything I have read so says otherwise.  > L > That certainly seems likely to be true for at least a while.  However, theN > last point Chris made (which I included above) remains valid, and was likely@ > more important to Linux's (at least early) success than price. > L > The question is whether VMS would have any chance of duplicating the LinuxD > phenomenon.  If you suspect (as I do) that a great deal of Linux'sM > popularity was due to  1) abhorrence of Microsoft,  2) academic exposure togJ > Unix, and  3) zero cost, then VMS fails completely on point 2 and, givenN > that Linux already satisfies points 1 and 3, doesn't have the vacuum to fill > that Linux did.V > G > There's also the question of why the free BSD variants didn't succeedeN > earlier.  One might guess at reasons like  a) Linus is kind of a neat figureM > to focus on and  b) GNU licensing has a powerful constituency and organizedsK > backing, unlike the other open-source variants.  Once again, VMS fails tooF > qualify for success on these grounds:  Cutler, even if he were stillM > available, isn't exactly as friendly a co-implementor as Linus is, and it'slE > not clear that GNU licensing would be in VMS's interests (let alonee > Compaq's). > L > In sum, I don't see that VMS has any chance at all of following in Linux'sM > footsteps:  I suspect it will have to fight every step of the way, based on:L > its virtues and hopefully with aggressive assistance from Compaq in makingM > it as familiar, approachable, and (if it ever becomes viable at the extremeuF > low end on other counts) affordable as its more popular competition. >  > - bill >  > >r > > -- > > Keith Brown0 > > kbrown780@usfamily.net  ? We are in violent agreement here Bill.  It would be nice if VMS = would easily run Linux software, as some have proposed.  Thisu@ may not make VMS as popular as Linux but it would be better than% a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.    -- e Keith Brownt kbrown780@usfamily.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 01:53:50 -0400e' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>l Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?( Message-ID: <8in0lr$d44$1@pyrite.mv.net>  J Your problem is that you refuse to get the numbers to back up your claims.I Posts in this newsgroup and other people like you that you happen to know L about don't mean sh*t unless you can demonstrate (not just assert) that theyK (the ones you can *count*) add up to potential system purchases in the highr 6 figure range or greater.  F Without numbers, you haven't said anything convincing in the past, andI continue to avoid doing so in the present:  don't tell *me* to go out ands: collect them - if you want to make your case, *you* do it.  H As for your argument below, it falls apart on the first premise.  CompaqJ *has* resellers, it just doesn't have resellers in the very-low-end marketL (because it has no VMS offering there, and little reason at the current timeK to be interested in creating one).  Thus is *has* profits - in fact, bettercL profits on VMS than on just about anything else it sells (I don't know aboutH Tandem products).  And it could have a great deal *more* resellers and aI great deal *more* profits (I don't agree that they enjoy quite as tight asK cause-and-effect relationship as you suggest, but they are related) withoutnK doing a damn thing in the very low end market segment, just by revitalizingeI its efforts in the markets where VMS already has presence and credibility.H (but is hampered by the perception of being an end-of-life product), andD then expanding based on its success into other markets where VMS hasG worthwhile strengths and no de facto system standard exists (unlike theVI desktop, where the current actions against Microsoft should be sufficientt; evidence that a very real de facto system standard exists).p  F VMS doesn't have to conquer the desktop (or any other areas adequatelyI served by existing Compaq systems) to be successful, any more than OS/390aI does.  And if it fits sufficiently well into an environment that includesuI Windows (or Linux) on the desktop, there's no benefit to Compaq in havingtK VMS duplicate that presence:  Compaq can offer single-vendor service with auL heterogeneous but integrated product set without having to fight the up-hillI battle of trying to force VMS into a market owned by other systems and in ' which VMS has no compelling advantages.n  D So to return to your initial point:  I never said your situation wasE unique - I just said it was up to you to prove that there were enoughnD customers out there to make it worth while for Compaq to develop theG configuration you want to see (and if it requires a port, the number oflI additional system sales has got to be well into 6 figures to pay for it -sK Compaq might say more).  Your closing statement ("Margins be damned if theyhL lose business (read: profits) to your competitors.") indicates a fundamentalI misunderstanding of the relationship between margins and profits (withoutDA the first, you have none of the second), which may explain a lot.o   - bill  @ David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message& news:394EEFD7.E33122B@earthlink.net... > Bill Todd wrote: > >hD > > David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message+ > > news:394ED4C7.86A261F0@earthlink.net...  > >  > > ...  > >eF > > > I don't care if it runs on S/390, Timex/Sinclair or TRS-80, even ENIAC -oL > > > so long as I can get past the price barrier in a sales effort, I don't2 > > > care if it runs on a credit-card calculator. > >lI > > To be blunt, David, Compaq doesn't care if you can get past the pricepH > > barrier in a sales effort, unless there are enough customers for you (and< > > others like you) to make the sale profitable for Compaq. > >eL > > The fact that it's a problem for you is irrelevant unless it's a problem fors0 > > Compaq that they can solve cost-effectively. >'# > Question: Is my situation unique?. >h > Hints: > J > 1. Ask others in the same position (as I haev suggested numerous times). > G > 2. Review the archive of this newgroup at http://www.deja.com/ (in son$ > far as that's currently possible). > J > It's been said that there are none so blind as those who will not see. IH > encourage you to open both your eyes and your mind. Your zeal for yourI > position is admirable; however, I question the virtue of your position,m# > just as you do so regarding mine.v >M > It's simple math, really:a >wF > No resellers = no sales (unless you sell directly, and Compaq is notD > known for their direct web sales capability, so that's pretty much > that). >i > No sales = no profits. >f > No profits = no investors. >: > No investors = R.I.P. OpenVMSt >oG > Actually, again speaking from personal experience (YMMV), the OpenVMSnH > market in metro Chicago, is, for all practical purposes, already dead.H > Again, ask the others who sell in this market since you obviously have > no intention of believing me.u >r- > Go ahead. I'll be here when you get back...( >OI > ...oh yeah: and be sure to ask them what one factor consistently knocksiF > them out of the running, even when a RFP response DOES get reviewed. >fH > Regardless of how much Compaq thinks they're making on each sale, thatE > value is insignificant compared to the money they're losing on losto > sales. >0I > Maybe Compaq grosses $x billion on OpenVMS related sales. They probablyVH > lose 30 times that on sales that go to competitors. (Moral: Margins beD > damned if they lose business (read: profits) to your competitors.) >s > -- > David J. Dachtera. > dba DJE Systemsc$ > http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/ >L< > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:- > http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/s   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jun 2000 20:32:17 GMT# From: "rbcannon" <rcannon@ieee.org>c Subject: VAX/VMS networking 0 Message-ID: <01bfda2d$9d290d40$b030e1a7@rcannon>  K My company has pulled a Microvax 3100 running VAX/VMS v5.4 out of mothballsbA and wants some data off of it. What is the command/procedures forgJ configuring the Microvax to operate on ethernet (TCP/IP). I want to ftp toI the Microvax from an HP-UX Unix workstation. It is currently connected on K the network, but I am unable to ping the Microvax and cannot find a networkiI configuration command. At one time, the Microvax was networked, but maybee& lost the config data upon power down.  --   /rco rcannon@ieee.org   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jun 2000 16:42:24 EDT' From: Al Butler <al_butler@hotmail.com>y Subject: Re: VAX/VMS networkingr+ Message-ID: <394E8519.DF6F8239@hotmail.com>   N look in the sys$manager:systartup_xxxx.com file and see if it has an entry for one of 4E TCP/IP stacks. Look for UCX , MULTINET, WOLLONGONG or TGV... one of 4 O should be sitting around for TCP/IP. More than likely it will be UCX or Digitala TCP/IP (same thing!).  M Then see if it was enabled. Else, if was connected are you sure it was TCP/IPe
 or DECNet?   Also at the $ command prompt.e   $ sho log ucx* $ sho log multi*  4 See if there are any logicals for one of the stacks.   al     rbcannon wrote:s  M > My company has pulled a Microvax 3100 running VAX/VMS v5.4 out of mothballslC > and wants some data off of it. What is the command/procedures forbL > configuring the Microvax to operate on ethernet (TCP/IP). I want to ftp toK > the Microvax from an HP-UX Unix workstation. It is currently connected ontM > the network, but I am unable to ping the Microvax and cannot find a networklK > configuration command. At one time, the Microvax was networked, but maybeh' > lost the config data upon power down.h > -- > /rc  > rcannon@ieee.org   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 21:50:37 -0400 2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com> Subject: VAX/VMS networking 7 Message-ID: <200006192150_MC2-A95F-789D@compuserve.com>n  J         A machine that old may not have *any* TCP/IP software installed o= rbJ licensed.  DECnet, not TCP/IP is/was the native VMS networking protocol. =  J The possible candidates for a TCP/IP package are UCX, CMU-TEK, Multinet, =  G the Wollongong product now known as Pathway (I don't remember what theyl2 called it then), or Fusion  from Network Research.  J         LICENSE LIST may show you a license for a TCP/IP package. CMU was=  J cheapware from Carnegie-Mellon, no license will appear.  UCX, if present,=  G will have a UCX license.  Multinet now uses the VMS license database, ItF don't know if it did back in 1990!   Don't know if/how the others were	 licensed.   J         If you find UCX, try @SYS$MANAGER:UCX$CONFIG.  Select "Core" from=  J the menu and configure the interface with the current IP address, netmask= ,  etc.  D         If it's one of the others you'll either have to resurect the< documentation and read it or find someone who knows and ask.  J         You might also want to try to establish that the data is still on=  H the system and still readable!   The disk it was on may not even spin up
 any more!!  J         Your best bet might be to hand the system to a professional and a= skJ him to retrieve the data for you.  Muller Media Conversions (212) 344-047= 4nF should be able to read whatever the data is on and put the data on theG medium of your choice, perhaps as a tar file.  Ask for Chris Muller ande tell him "Dragon" sent you.t    " Message text written by "rbcannon"B >My company has pulled a Microvax 3100 running VAX/VMS v5.4 out of	 mothballssA and wants some data off of it. What is the command/procedures forsJ configuring the Microvax to operate on ethernet (TCP/IP). I want to ftp t= ooJ the Microvax from an HP-UX Unix workstation. It is currently connected on=  J the network, but I am unable to ping the Microvax and cannot find a netwo= rkJ configuration command. At one time, the Microvax was networked, but maybe=  ' lost the config data upon power down. =s   -- =   /rce rcannon@ieee.org<s   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 15:13:33 -0500x% From: Chris Scheers <asi@airmail.net>, Subject: Re: Vest problemsO Message-ID: <E900B5C6A383131A.F355614491601C8F.81189427CF9A8CEE@lp.airnews.net>o   "John E. Malmberg" wrote:e > 6 > Chris Scheers <asi@airmail.network> wrote in messageK > news:48560EFDD1F2F9A9.392AE1A538EBB070.048E2559F2B0F991@lp.airnews.net...r > G > > AFAIK, VEST does not have support for VMSLIB, so executables linkedc7 > > against VMSLIB under V3.x or earlier will not work.  > >aH > > If anyone knows how to add support for VMSLIB to VEST, please let me? > > know.  I have a V3 executable that I would love to convert.  > >oK > > I think that VEST may also have trouble with the earlier image headers,mE > > but running the images through PATCH usually converts the header.   % Oops...  It's not VMSLIB, but VMSRTL.a    aK > You can try one of the dissassemblers on the FREEWARE CD-ROM and then useu > the Macro-32 compiler.  F Actually, I did try this.  The problem again is that the disassemblers0 didn't seem to know how to handle VMSRTL either.    aM > Of course it might be time to just rewrite the routines from their original  > specifications.e  ; I know, but there is something about the challange.  <grin>r  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------n$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  G 817-237-3360 (Voice)    817-237-3074 (Fax)    Internet: asi@airmail.netS   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 11:15:59 -0700 / From: Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com>  Subject: Vest problem2M Message-ID: <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213019AEEAD@seantexch.unitedad.com>g  L Running vest I get the error, Can someone shed some light on what FDVSHR.exeK is? I don't know if it is a part of standard vms or was put on the Vax from * the ap we run. It is not on our new alpha. Thanks a Terry     J %VEST-W-NOIIF, Error opening interface file SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]FDVSHR.IIF; -- wi  ll assume default interface  -RMS-E-FNF, file not found      5 *****************************************************h    5 ***************************************************** 4 Any views or opinions are solely those of the author) and do not necessarily represent those ofl United News& Media.g5 *****************************************************o4 The information transmitted is intended only for the1 person or entity to which it is addressed and mayd3 contain confidential and/or privileged material. Ife3 you are not the intended recipient of this message,s. please do not read, copy, use or disclose this3 communication and notify the sender immediately. Itf0 should be noted that any review, retransmission,2 dissemination or other use of, or taking action in- reliance upon, this information by persons ort- entities other than the intended recipient ise prohibited.a5 *****************************************************  **   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 14:31:56 -0400e) From: "Ebinger . Eric" <EEbinger@drc.com>r Subject: RE: Vest problem2B Message-ID: <7162F87E9EF4D311BA9900805FC1D3AE7A6180@and02.drc.com>  L FDVSHR.EXE is part of the FMS (Forms Management System) runtime component.     Eric Ebinger   > -----Original Message-----8 > From: Terry Marosites [mailto:TMarosites@unitedad.com]% > Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 2:16 PMl > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como > Subject: Vest problem2 >  > ? > Running vest I get the error, Can someone shed some light on ( > what FDVSHR.exeo> > is? I don't know if it is a part of standard vms or was put  > on the Vax fromn, > the ap we run. It is not on our new alpha.	 > Thanks   > Terry  >  > . > %VEST-W-NOIIF, Error opening interface file   > SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]FDVSHR.IIF; > -- wio > ll assume default interface  > -RMS-E-FNF, file not found >  >  > 7 > *****************************************************r >  > 7 > *****************************************************n6 > Any views or opinions are solely those of the author+ > and do not necessarily represent those of? > United News& Media.g7 > *****************************************************e6 > The information transmitted is intended only for the3 > person or entity to which it is addressed and may 5 > contain confidential and/or privileged material. Ifi5 > you are not the intended recipient of this message, 0 > please do not read, copy, use or disclose this5 > communication and notify the sender immediately. Its2 > should be noted that any review, retransmission,4 > dissemination or other use of, or taking action in/ > reliance upon, this information by persons ore/ > entities other than the intended recipient isp
 > prohibited.e7 > *****************************************************  > ** >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 15:51:10 -0300i1 From: "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com>y Subject: RE: Vest problem2K Message-ID: <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A024798@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>o  J It's part of the Forms Management System or the Computer Based Instruction
 (training) - Darren   > ----------6 > From: 	Terry Marosites[SMTP:TMarosites@unitedad.com]& > Sent: 	Monday, June 19, 2000 3:15 PM > To: 	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: 	Vest problem2  > C > Running vest I get the error, Can someone shed some light on what  > FDVSHR.exeH > is? I don't know if it is a part of standard vms or was put on the Vax > from, > the ap we run. It is not on our new alpha.	 > Thanks   > Terry  >  > L > %VEST-W-NOIIF, Error opening interface file SYS$COMMON:[SYSLIB]FDVSHR.IIF; > -- wit > ll assume default interfacew > -RMS-E-FNF, file not found >  >  > 7 > *****************************************************R >  > 7 > *****************************************************a6 > Any views or opinions are solely those of the author+ > and do not necessarily represent those oft > United News& Media.a7 > *****************************************************t6 > The information transmitted is intended only for the3 > person or entity to which it is addressed and mayh5 > contain confidential and/or privileged material. If.5 > you are not the intended recipient of this message,e0 > please do not read, copy, use or disclose this5 > communication and notify the sender immediately. Itt2 > should be noted that any review, retransmission,4 > dissemination or other use of, or taking action in/ > reliance upon, this information by persons ora/ > entities other than the intended recipient isd
 > prohibited.d7 > *****************************************************r > ** >  >     F **********************************************************************C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential andtJ may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.M They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom theynL are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copying  of this message is prohibited.   Bank of BermudaiF **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:36:10 +1200m0 From: Patrick Nirmal Sharma <Patrick@fsc.com.fj> Subject: VMS sites9 Message-ID: <C904D185C744D31189A90008C7EB668402735B@dovu>   
 Greetings,  > Anyone could point me to some VMS /and Windows NT job sites in
 NZ(preferably 
 Auckland).   Regards, Patrick   ------------------------------   Date: 18 Jun 2000 08:26:56 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.044962.killspam.0138 (Wayne Sewell)a9 Subject: Re: VMSeti CGI script update - for VMS SETI@home.. Message-ID: <bKiQW+574Xp+@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  a In article <394BC2B0.311AF64C@wasd.vsm.com.au>, Mark Daniel <mark.daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> writes: F > VMSeti provides a Web-based interface for monitoring the progress ofF > VMS SETI@home processing.  It supports the WASD and OSU servers, andD > should (though untested) work for VMS Apache, Purveyor, FastTrack, > etc. > 6 > If your are not sure what SET@home is all about then > ' >   http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/  > B > This is a version 3.0 update.  It now supports SETI@home v2.4 byE > default and has had a couple of other minor enhancements since v2.0d
 > (Feb 2000).i > 9 > Demonstration ... http://wasd.vsm.com.au/cgi-bin/vmsetih> > Source & Doc .... http://wasd.vsm.com.au/ht_root/src/vmseti/0 > Download ........ http://wasd.vsm.com.au/wasd/ > D > (Note: the demo is running on a *VAX* showing demo data only - VMSG > SETI@home is not supported on VAX, only Alpha - this is a demo of thet > script only!)r > 5 > Support SETI@home, and if you can SETI@home on VMS!  >     O The only problem I see with this is that it assumes you have only *one* machine J running seti, i.e. it appears the directory in which it looks for the .sahN files must be hard coded in the script.  When you are running seti on multipleK machines, or even multiple cpus on the same machine, you have multiple seti L directories, each with its own independent set of .sah files.  Therefore theC package needs some type of parameter, so that you can tell it whichrM machine/cpu/directory to access.  Or it could accumulate the information fromnP all the directories if they are in the same cluster-available tree as mine are:   / LAUREL_DISK2:[SETI.CHICO_CPU1]USER_INFO.SAH;124-/ LAUREL_DISK2:[SETI.HARDY_CPU1]USER_INFO.SAH;336-/ LAUREL_DISK2:[SETI.HARPO_CPU1]USER_INFO.SAH;457t/ LAUREL_DISK2:[SETI.LARRY_CPU1]USER_INFO.SAH;154-0 LAUREL_DISK2:[SETI.LAUREL_CPU1]USER_INFO.SAH;6280 LAUREL_DISK2:[SETI.LAUREL_CPU2]USER_INFO.SAH;598- LAUREL_DISK2:[SETI.MOE_CPU1]USER_INFO.SAH;1511         Wayne1 -- EO ===============================================================================mM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx : http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)YO ===============================================================================iO Otter, on dining with Bluto:"It's perfectly safe if you keep your arms and legs* 			away from his mouth."   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 21:13:35 +0200u2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)5 Subject: Re: What's happeb with the OpenVMS Webpages?*; Message-ID: <394e70df.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>n  ' Rudolf Wingert (win@fom.fgan.de) wrote: M : at this morning I did try to go to the OpenVMS Webpage. I am not able to dorA : so. Is OpenVMS dead (Webpage)? Does anybody know what's happen? J : I tried both links: www.openvms.compaq.com and www.openvms.digital.com .  < Heard at DECUS symposium the "new" official VMS home page is3 http://www.compaq.com/openvms/ (which redirected tou# www.openvms.digital.com up to now).    cu,s   Martin --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.de N One OS to bring them all      |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------   Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 07:55:31  From: <bench1@parsmail.com>t Subject: your imaging supplies$ Message-ID: <251057668@MVB.SAIC.COM>   BENCHMARK SUPPLY 5334 LAKE VIEW CLUBi ATLANTA GA 30338  $ ***LASER PRINTER TONER CARTRIDGES*** ***FAX AND COPIER TONER***  c9 WE ACCEPT GOVERNMENT, SCHOOL & UNIVERSITY PURCHASE ORDERSa< JUST LEAVE YOUR PO # WITH CORRECT BILLING & SHIPPING ADDRESS  > CHECK OUT OUR NEW CARTRIDGE PRICES FOR THE FOLLOWING PRINTERS:  o   APPLE   w-   LASER WRITER  PRO 600 OR 16/600         $69 -   LASER WRITER SELECT 300,310.360         $69g.   LASER WRITER 300, 320                   $54 .   LASER WRITER LS,NT,2NTX,2F,2G & 2SC     $54 .   LASER WRITER 12/640                     $79    HEWLETT PACKARD   .   LASERJET SERIES 2,3 & 3D (95A)          $49 .   LASERJET SERIES  2P AND 3P (75A)        $54 .   LASERJET SERIES 3SI AND 4SI (91A)       $75 .   LASERJET SERIES 4L AND 4P               $49 .   LASERJET SERIES 4, 4M, 5, 5M, 4+ (98A)  $59 .   LASERJET SERIES 4000 HIGH YIELD  (27X)  $99 .   LASERJET SERIES 4V                      $95 .   LASERJET SERIES 5SI , 8000              $95 .   LASERJET SERIES 5L AND 6L               $49 .   LASERJET SERIES 5P, 5MP, 6P, 6MP        $59 -   LASERJET SERIES 5000 (29A)             $135 .   LASERJET SERIES 1100 (92A)              $49 -   LASERJET SERIES 2100 (96A)              $84 #   LASERJET SERIES 8100 (82X)		 $145i     HP LASERFAX   .   LASERFAX 500, 700, FX1,                 $59 .   LASERFAX 5000, 7000, FX2,               $59 .   LASERFAX  FX3                           $69 .   LASERFAX  FX4                           $79   *   LEXMARK   .   OPTRA  4019, 4029  HIGH YIELD          $135 .   OPTRA R, 4039, 4049 HIGH YIELD         $135 .   OPTRA S 4059 HIGH YIELD                $135 .   OPTRA E                                 $59 .   OPTRA  N                               $115       EPSON   .   EPL-7000, 8000                         $105 .   EPL-1000, 1500                         $105   -   CANON   .   LBP-430                                 $49 .   LBP-460, 465                            $59 .   LBP-8 II                                $54 .   LBP-LX                                  $54 .   LBP-MX                                  $95 .   LBP-AX                                  $49 .   LBP-EX                                  $59 .   LBP-SX                                  $49 .   LBP-BX                                  $95 .   LBP-PX                                  $49 .   LBP-WX                                  $95 .   LBP-VX                                  $59 .   CANON FAX L700 THRU L790 FX1            $59 .   CANONFAX L5000 L70000  FX2              $59       CANON COPIERS   .   PC 20, 25 ETC....                       $89 .   PC 3, 6RE, 7, 11  (A30)                 $69 .   PC 320 THRU 780  (E40)                  $89   *   NEC   -   SERIES 2 LASER MODEL 90,95             $105      PLEASE NOTE:  . 2) WE DO NOT SEND OUT CATALOGS OR PRICE LISTS ) 3) WE DO NOT FAX QUOTES OR PRICE LISTS.  t7 4) WE DO NOT SELL TO RESELLERS OR BUY FROM DISTRIBUTERSm> 5) WE DO NOT CARRY: BROTHER-MINOLTA-KYOSERA-PANASONIC PRODUCTS; 6) WE DO NOT CARRY: XEROX-FUJITSU-OKIDATA OR SHARP PRODUCTSb1 7) WE DO NOT CARRY ANY COLOR PRINTER SUPPLIES    n7 8) WE DO NOT CARRY DESKJET/INKJET OR BUBBLEJET SUPPLIESo= 9) WE DO NOT BUY FROM OR SELL TO RECYCLERS OR REMANUFACTURERSn                         ( ****OUR  ORDER LINE IS 770-399-0953 ****  2 ****OUR CUSTOMER SERVICE  LINE IS 800-586-0540****= ****OUR E-MAIL REMOVAL AND COMPLAINT LINE IS 888-494-8597****   % ****PLACE YOUR ORDER AS FOLLOWS**** :t   BY PHONE   770-399-0953    BY FAX:    770-698-9700 ! BY MAIL:   BENCHMARK PRINT SUPPLYe            5334 LAKE VIEW CLUB            ATLANTA GA 30338i  ? MAKE SURE YOU INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION IN YOUR ORDER: m  #              1)  YOUR PHONE NUMBER                2)  COMPANY NAME "              3)  SHIPPING ADDRESS               4)  YOUR NAME e.              5)  ITEMS NEEDED WITH QUANTITIES 9              6)  METHOD OF PAYMENT. (COD OR CREDIT CARD) *9              7)  CREDIT CARD NUMBER WITH EXPIRATION DATE *    -: 1) WE SHIP UPS GROUND. ADD $4.5 FOR SHIPPING AND HANDLING.3 2) COD CHECK ORDERS ADD $3.5 TO YOUR SHIPPING COST.c3 2) WE ACCEPT ALL MAJOR CREDIT CARD OR "COD" ORDERS.D8 3) OUR STANDARD MERCHANDISE REFUND POLICY IS NET 30 DAYS> 4) OUR STANDARD MERCHANDISE REPLCAMENT POLICY IS NET 90 DAYS.      NOTE NUMBER (1): e  8 PLEASE DO NOT CALL OUR ORDER LINE TO REMOVE YOUR E-MAIL < ADDRESS OR COMPLAIN. OUR ORDER LINE IS NOT SETUP TO FORWARD 5 YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS REMOVAL REQUESTS OR PROCESS YOUR t9 COMPLAINTS..IT WOULD BE A WASTED PHONE CALL.YOUR ADDRESS h6 WOULD NOT BE REMOVED AND YOUR COMPLAINTS WOULD NOT BE 5 HANDLED.PLEASE CALL OUR TOLL FREE E-MAIL REMOVAL AND r COMPLAINT LINE TO DO THAT.   NOTE NUMBER (2):  5 OUR E-MAIL RETURN ADDRESS IS NOT SETUP TO ANSWER ANY g< QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE REGARDING OUR PRODUCTS. OUR E-MAIL 7 RETURN ADDRESS IS ALSO NOT SETUP TO TAKE ANY ORDERS AT t9 THIS TIME. PLEASE CALL THE ORDER LINE TO PLACE YOUR ORDERh;  OR HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ANSWERED. OTHERWISE PLEASE CALL OUR i CUSTOMER SERCICE LINE.                S  @  e  .  y      ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.342 ************************> Demonstration ... http://wasd.vsm.com.au/cgi-bin/vmsetih> > Source & Doc .... http://wasd.vsm.com.au/ht_root/src/vmseti/0 > Download ........ http://wasd.vsm.com.au/wasd/ > D > (Note: the demo is running on a *VAX* showing demo data only - VMSG > SETI@home is not supported on VAX, only Alpha - this is a demo of thet > script only!)r > 5 > Support SETI@home, and if you can SETI@home on VMS!  >     O The only problem I see with this is that it assumes you have only *one* machine J running seti,  did- }the "show process" really fixed the problem?a }  }Thanks, }Steven:  F This isn't a problem, in and of itself. The processes are swapped out.G That is, all (or nearly all) the pages in the process have been swapped2F out to the swapfile (if you have one - pagefile if not). The processesG that get swapped out weren't doing anything anyway (or, at least, a lot.0 less than the ones that didn't get swapped out).  F Given the normal tuning that VMS comes with, and likes to maintain viaJ autogen with no 