1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 20 Jun 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 343       Contents:  Re: adding large number of users9 Re: Alpha DEC 2000-300 (Jensen?) - Serial port as console  Besides Pathworks for Mac...  Re: Besides Pathworks for Mac...  Re: Besides Pathworks for Mac...  Re: Besides Pathworks for Mac..." Re: CMQ/Dec with a sense of Humor? Re: Fun VMS Facts? Re: FW: Fun VMS Facts? Re: Internet VMSCluster  RE: JBC$COMMAND query  Re: JBC$COMMAND query  RE: JBC$COMMAND query   Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?)$ Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?)$ Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?)$ Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?)$ Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?)) New Zealand job web sites (Was VMS sites) 8 Not waiting for the shoe to drop. was: Re: VAX on Intel?< Re: Not waiting for the shoe to drop. was: Re: VAX on Intel? OpenVMS Customer Database  Re: OpenVMS Customer Database   ORACLE on Open VMS sites in MA ?* Re: Re[2]: Techwise report on availability Symbols & Pipe command Re: Symbols & Pipe command Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX/VMS networking0 Re: VMSeti CGI script update - for VMS SETI@home, What happened to SET PROTOCOL UDP/BROADCAST?, Re: What's happeb with the OpenVMS Webpages?; Re: Which cpu does Sun server use: I386, Mip, Ppc or Alpha?  your imaging supplies   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:29:25 +0000 $ From: Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk) Subject: Re: adding large number of users / Message-ID: <00256904.0044B4FE.00@quegw01.btyp>   = Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza   N There is (was?) a procedure in sys$help (perhaps in the examples subdirectory)P which would do what you ask. It takes a comma seperated list of users. With someE modification it would take a list taken from some data file or other.    Steve Spires VMS System Manager BT/Yellow Pages         - "tp" <tp@fastdial.net> on 19/06/2000 22:10:11     To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages) ; From:      "tp" <tp@fastdial.net>, 19 June 2000, 10:10 p.m.    adding large number of users        F does anyone have a com file to add/create accounts for large number of users?   thanks Tony   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:12:38 GMT 0 From: carlini@true.lkg.dec.com (Antonio Carlini)B Subject: Re: Alpha DEC 2000-300 (Jensen?) - Serial port as console* Message-ID: <8inbts$9mc@usenet.pa.dec.com>  e In article <8ilhcj$kpq$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Adrian Lumsden" <A.Lumsden@spamtrap.xdt.co.uk> wrote:   6 >I still have problems with the graphics cards and the4 >EISA Configuration Utility. Does anybody know where3 >I can get a new copy of the ECU from? Does anybody   O I recently ( i.e. within the last six months) saw an ECU diskette shipped with  M the OpenVMS Alpha V7.2 CONDIST. I assume it goes out with all Alpha CONDISTs.    Antonio   I Antonio Carlini                            Mail: carlini@true.lkg.dec.com # DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS Engineering 6 COMPAQ                                     Reading, UK   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:38:16 GMT  From: rleathe@my-deja.com % Subject: Besides Pathworks for Mac... ) Message-ID: <8invkl$9e9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   A We are currently migrating from VAX to Alpha platform.  Pathworks @ for Mac, as far as I know, will not run on Alpha 7.2.  With this
 in mind...  = What products are available that will allow transfer of files C between Mac's, Wintel, and OpenVMS?  We could use FTP of course but 2 would like something similar to Pathworks for Mac.  ? My only thought would to load an old VAX 4300 up with disks and 6 pathworks for MAc and use it strictly for filesharing.  B I read a while back about OpenVMS disk services for NT Server.  Is' anyone using this product with success?    thanks     russ        & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 15:43:22 GMT + From: Paul Anderson <panderson@genicom.com> ) Subject: Re: Besides Pathworks for Mac... C Message-ID: <panderson-FC15EA.11433520062000@news.bellatlantic.net>   D In article <8invkl$9e9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, rleathe@my-deja.com wrote:  G > We are currently migrating from VAX to Alpha platform. Pathworks for  A > Mac, as far as I know, will not run on Alpha 7.2. With this in  	 > mind...   C I run PATHWORKS for OpenVMS (Macintosh) on my OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1  A systems and what I use (DECshare volumes and AppleTalk stack for  H printing) works fine.  I'm not aware of any part of the server software H that doesn't work on the latest versions of OpenVMS.  And there were no  Y2K bugs either!  D The client portion does not like newer versions of the MacOS though.   Paul   --  "    Paul Anderson, DCPS Engineering"    GENICOM Corporation, Gardner MA   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:42:32 -0500 (EST) 1 From: "Robert J. Slover" <slover@Rose-Hulman.Edu> ) Subject: Re: Besides Pathworks for Mac... W Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000620104037.28252A-100000@rocinante.admin.rose-hulman.edu>   9 You might try Dave, by Thursby systems, on the Mac.  Dave < should let you mount SMB shares on the Mac...Samba, Windows,0 and probably Pathworks (a.k.a. Advanced Server).   --Robert  . On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 rleathe@my-deja.com wrote:  C > We are currently migrating from VAX to Alpha platform.  Pathworks B > for Mac, as far as I know, will not run on Alpha 7.2.  With this > in mind... > ? > What products are available that will allow transfer of files E > between Mac's, Wintel, and OpenVMS?  We could use FTP of course but 4 > would like something similar to Pathworks for Mac. > A > My only thought would to load an old VAX 4300 up with disks and 8 > pathworks for MAc and use it strictly for filesharing. > D > I read a while back about OpenVMS disk services for NT Server.  Is) > anyone using this product with success?  >  > thanks >  >  > russ >  >  >  > ( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 16:56:12 GMT - From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> ) Subject: Re: Besides Pathworks for Mac... ( Message-ID: <394FA225.5CFA29B7@ohio.edu>  @ There is a Mac Product called "Dave" that allegedly provides SMBH filesharing access to NT (and presumably PathWorks) servers.  I think itF may also know how to provide access to W98/NT-shared printers.  I have never used it.    	 						RDP      rleathe@my-deja.com wrote: > C > We are currently migrating from VAX to Alpha platform.  Pathworks B > for Mac, as far as I know, will not run on Alpha 7.2.  With this > in mind... > ? > What products are available that will allow transfer of files E > between Mac's, Wintel, and OpenVMS?  We could use FTP of course but 4 > would like something similar to Pathworks for Mac. > A > My only thought would to load an old VAX 4300 up with disks and 8 > pathworks for MAc and use it strictly for filesharing. > D > I read a while back about OpenVMS disk services for NT Server.  Is) > anyone using this product with success?  >  > thanks >  > russ > ( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.    --  B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 16:50:17 +0200 * From: Frederik Meerwaldt <fm_wrong@gmx.de>+ Subject: Re: CMQ/Dec with a sense of Humor? & Message-ID: <394F84A9.68A50A55@gmx.de>   Hi!     # > Thought it to be funnily bizzare.  > . > Anyone know if this actually means anything?  H Perhaps the developers forgot to remove the debug message. Could be some debugging info.    >  > Antony   Regards, 	Freddy    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2000 12:47:34 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  Subject: Re: Fun VMS Facts? H Message-ID: <y4k8fk633t.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  1 Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> writes:   Q > (Irish Railways still takes the prize - clusters didn't *exist*  13 years ago!)    Of course they did!    	Jan   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:26:29 GMT 0 From: carlini@true.lkg.dec.com (Antonio Carlini) Subject: Re: FW: Fun VMS Facts? * Message-ID: <8inco0$9mc@usenet.pa.dec.com>  f In article <2B760A94907CBD11.FF19BC7266FB7277.DD69A60E895A994A@lp.airnews.net>, asi@airmail.net wrote:H >If I remember correctly, LAVCs were introduced in VMS 4.5B.  Initially,F >support may have been restricted to the VS2000s, but I don't remember >that for sure.   O I recall LAVC popped up in V4.5B but if you wanted a VS2000 in the cluster you  1 needed V4.5C. Note this was VAX/VMS not MicroVMS.    Antonio   I Antonio Carlini                            Mail: carlini@true.lkg.dec.com # DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS Engineering 6 COMPAQ                                     Reading, UK   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 11:08:54 +0200 , From: Nigel Barker <nigel.barker@compaq.com>  Subject: Re: Internet VMSCluster8 Message-ID: <44dukssrtk94a6gm1ntj8mcgj0drd8c5gd@4ax.com>  N On Sun, 11 Jun 2000 21:57:05 -0500, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> wrote:  G >Stephen Eickhoff (remove the - to reply) <operagost@e-mail.com> wrote:  > I >> I have a VAXstation 4000-60 and a DEC 3000-400 which are clustered and  >share a >> quorum disk.  > L >A quorum disk must be on a common direct interface to both systems.  As farF >as I know the two system models that you mentioned to not have one in >common.  I It's not a completely crazy idea although the quorum disk is unnecessary.   O This must be an Ethernet cluster as noted above & one of the machines must have O the quorum disk directly attached. So in the event of disruption to the network M or the other system being shut down then the system with the quorum disk will K still be available for work. The same effect can more easily be achieved by N simply giving the machine that currently doesn't have the quorum disk attached zero votes.   O I have encountered all sorts of schemes over the years that attempt to get over L the problem of a two node LAN cluster hanging if one of the nodes goes away.   -- Nigel Barker Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:56:53 -0300 1 From: "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com>  Subject: RE: JBC$COMMAND queryK Message-ID: <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A02479C@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>   L > The last point of course leads me to ask: Is there a way to force a reset K > of the queue entry number? I've a vague feeling I did it many moons ago,  L > but really cannot remember how (and maybe it was back the days before the 1 > queue manager was written in its present form).  > ___  > Paul Sture
 > Switzerland  >  > K Not to my knowledge is the answer here, short of queuing  jobs to the queue K until you hit the algorithm for a reset, this is something like only 10% of K job numbers left so it will go back to 1 or the first available job number. > We also had this problem and I had to use something like this.   $ loop: 
 $ set noon $ submit/hold login.com  $ job_no  = $entry $ delete/entry=job_no1 $ submit/hold login.com  $ job_no1 = $entry $ dele/entry= job_no $ goto loop    Have fun - Darren    F **********************************************************************C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and J may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.M They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they L are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copying  of this message is prohibited.   Bank of Bermuda F **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:50:26 GMT 1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>  Subject: Re: JBC$COMMAND query2 Message-ID: <394F848D.E6392064@clarityconnect.com>  H Currently the only way is to completely recreate the queuing system fromA scratch.  There may be utilities out there that will snapshot the H current queue management system so that you can easily recreate it but I! don't know of any specifically.     B This area of the queue management system is being investigated for) possible improvements in future versions.    Paul Sture wrote: K > The last point of course leads me to ask: Is there a way to force a reset J > of the queue entry number? I've a vague feeling I did it many moons ago,K > but really cannot remember how (and maybe it was back the days before the 1 > queue manager was written in its present form).  > ___  > Paul Sture
 > Switzerland    --  D Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:16:21 -0300 1 From: "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com>  Subject: RE: JBC$COMMAND queryK Message-ID: <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A0247BA@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>   6 > From: 	Mark D. Jilson[SMTP:jilly@clarityconnect.com] > J > Currently the only way is to completely recreate the queuing system fromC > scratch.  There may be utilities out there that will snapshot the J > current queue management system so that you can easily recreate it but I# > don't know of any specifically.    > G No it's not the only way, you just have to cycle the entry numbers as I  described earlier. - Darren      F **********************************************************************C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and J may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.M They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they L are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copying  of this message is prohibited.   Bank of Bermuda F **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:57:53 +0000 $ From: Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk) Subject: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?) / Message-ID: <00256904.004751BF.00@quegw01.btyp>   = Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza   M I'm sorry I don't have the book any more, and my memory might be a bit fuzzy, P but doesn't he talk about hacking VMS in the "Cyberpunk : Outlaws and Hackers on the Computer Frontier"  book?   A I can't remember if he said he could or couldn't though. Sorry...    Steve Spires VMS System Manager BT/Yellow Pages         < Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> on 19/06/2000 15:31:31    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages) I From:      Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>, 19 June 2000, 3:31 p.m.    Re: Fun VMS Facts?         Peter Weaver wrote:  > C > I took a look at http://www.kevinmitnick.com/sentest.html since I E > thought a printout of the actual statement posted on the wall would ; > look good. The closest thing I can find is Mitnik saying;  >  > ==========? > I have 20 years experience circumventing information security  > measures, and can @ > report that I have successfully compromised all systems that I > targeted for > unauthorized access save one.  > ========== > F > I could not find any place where he said what that one system was. IF > could not find any mentioned of VMS, Digital or DEC in the document.H > If anyone finds a quote where he says that the one system was VMS then > let us know.  A I'm sure he's broken into VMS systems - Kevin Mitnick is a masterhD of "human factors" weaknesses, and calling up the VMS system managerB and saying that you're a user who has lost his password works just> as well there as it does anywhere else.  And 12+ years ago theC "FIELD SERVICE" account and password tricks were in place in a hugee" fraction of the sites running VMS.   Tim.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:10:09 GMTc0 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <shannon@world.std.com>- Subject: Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?)s& Message-ID: <FwGF36.JAG@world.std.com>   > Peter Weaver wrote:e > > E > > I took a look at http://www.kevinmitnick.com/sentest.html since IRG > > thought a printout of the actual statement posted on the wall wouldn= > > look good. The closest thing I can find is Mitnik saying;  > >C > > ==========A > > I have 20 years experience circumventing information security  > > measures, and canlB > > report that I have successfully compromised all systems that I > > targeted for! > > unauthorized access save one.  > > ========== > >AH > > I could not find any place where he said what that one system was. IH > > could not find any mentioned of VMS, Digital or DEC in the document.J > > If anyone finds a quote where he says that the one system was VMS then > > let us know. >rC > I'm sure he's broken into VMS systems - Kevin Mitnick is a master-F > of "human factors" weaknesses, and calling up the VMS system managerD > and saying that you're a user who has lost his password works just@ > as well there as it does anywhere else.  And 12+ years ago theE > "FIELD SERVICE" account and password tricks were in place in a huger$ > fraction of the sites running VMS.  I Kevie-boy must have broken into a VMS system. After all, he did manage tolA abscond with the VMS source code after penetrating DEC's EASYNET.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:38:47 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>a- Subject: Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?)0( Message-ID: <394F73E7.F530D33@bbc.co.uk>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:v   >rE > > I'm sure he's broken into VMS systems - Kevin Mitnick is a master0H > > of "human factors" weaknesses, and calling up the VMS system managerF > > and saying that you're a user who has lost his password works justB > > as well there as it does anywhere else.  And 12+ years ago the  H Do you really set a user's password on the strength of a phone call from someone > you don't know personally, or have explicit authorization for?   >.G > > "FIELD SERVICE" account and password tricks were in place in a hugen& > > fraction of the sites running VMS. > K > Kevie-boy must have broken into a VMS system. After all, he did manage totC > abscond with the VMS source code after penetrating DEC's EASYNET.?   Thats what I thought, too.   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofu MedAS or the BBC.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:00:26 -0400-+ From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>0- Subject: Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?)j1 Message-ID: <394F40BA.43D8CB80@trailing-edge.com>n   Tim Llewellyn wrote: >  >  > >  Tim Shoppa wrote:G > > > I'm sure he's broken into VMS systems - Kevin Mitnick is a master J > > > of "human factors" weaknesses, and calling up the VMS system managerH > > > and saying that you're a user who has lost his password works justD > > > as well there as it does anywhere else.  And 12+ years ago the > J > Do you really set a user's password on the strength of a phone call from	 > someone @ > you don't know personally, or have explicit authorization for?  @ *I* don't, but lots of other system managers do.  There are many= "internet startups" that do stupid things like send usernamesjE and passwords as plain text in E-mail, even today.  And many of those-> "internet startups" are parts of big financial companies.  YouE might try reading the RISKS DIGEST (or comp.risks) if you want to see 8 horror stories of these practices every couple of weeks.  H There are lots of other opportunities on VMS and other systems that relyA on "human factors" weaknesses.  It would take both my fingers and.? toes to count the number of times I've been left by myself in a7? customer's large computer facility where a terminal was sittingcC there logged into the VMS "SYSTEM" account.  Yeah, I know, physicale? access, blah blah blah.  The point is, Kevin Mitnick was famoust: for getting himself into situations where he didn't *need*@ technical jiggery-pokery to gain such access to systems, he justB used some false phone calls and maybe some fake ID's to completely+ bypass the technical protection mechanisms.n  A As far as that goes, lots of facilities leave their system backup-A tapes in rather open access.  These should be guarded at least as  well as the physical system!   Tim.   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2000 07:55:04 -0700* From: dunnett@mala.bc.ca (Malcolm Dunnett)- Subject: Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?)r, Message-ID: <2I5G7wjoiGPg@malvm2.mala.bc.ca>  ' In article <FwGF36.JAG@world.std.com>, c5    "Terry C. Shannon" <shannon@world.std.com> writes:nE >> and saying that you're a user who has lost his password works justtA >> as well there as it does anywhere else.  And 12+ years ago thehF >> "FIELD SERVICE" account and password tricks were in place in a huge% >> fraction of the sites running VMS.r > K > Kevie-boy must have broken into a VMS system. After all, he did manage toVC > abscond with the VMS source code after penetrating DEC's EASYNET.t > F    Can you really call it "penetrating"? Didn't he do this in the days8 when guest accounts were commonplace on EASYNET. If you D walk in through a door which says "welcome all, come on in" it's notI really breaking in is it? ( note: I don't know if he used a guest accountnH or not, but I think there was some interesting stuff available to people who used these accounts ).   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:00:20 +0100r5 From: "Adrian Lumsden" <A.Lumsden@spamtrap.xdt.co.uk>R2 Subject: New Zealand job web sites (Was VMS sites)/ Message-ID: <8in9mg$os2$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>c  , You could try having a look on these sites:-   http://www.nzjobs.co.nz/it/b http://www.monster.co.nz/hH http://jobsearch.monster.com.au/jobsearch.asp?cy=AU%2CNZ&lid=831&lid=829' &lid=832&lid=833&lid=830&fn=6&fn=660&q=  http://www.candle.co.nz/ http://www.nzjobs.co.nz/) http://www.piperpat.co.nz/nz/careers.htmlo  4 And then there's Jeremy Jenkins very useful web site5 with lots of information for immigration to Australia  and New Zealand:-   - http://freespace.virgin.net/jeremy.jenkins73/,   Hope that helps.   Adrian --( Adrian Lumsden, XDT Computer Systems, UK" A dot Lumsden at xdt dot co dot uk  ; Patrick Nirmal Sharma <Patrick@fsc.com.fj> wrote in message 3 news:C904D185C744D31189A90008C7EB668402735B@dovu.... > Greetings, >w@ > Anyone could point me to some VMS /and Windows NT job sites in > NZ(preferablyc > Auckland). >  > Regards, Patrick >s   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Jun 2000 15:22:53 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)A Subject: Not waiting for the shoe to drop. was: Re: VAX on Intel?e, Message-ID: <8io28d$lb4@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  \ In article <394EF02F.6A4174B1@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:K >During a recent presentation, the new president of compaq Canada did admit1I >that Compaq was still seen and measured as a PC company, but in the nextQ> >months they would take serious action to try to correct that.  K One of the reason's Compaq's stock price is perpetually in the doldrums is iG that Q management moves with all the alacrity of flowing tar - at room  K temperature.  The only "action" that we can count on from them are numerousFF announcements along the lines of "we're going to address this soon" orF "we're going to spend X dollars pushing Y", and the always popular andI vacuous "we value our customers."   In this case "in the next months theynK would take serious action to try to correct that."  Uh, why not do it now? kH Heck, they cannot even be counted on to respond to bad press in a timelyK fashion - or at all.  And if management can't even get _words_ out the door-A quickly how can we expect them to accomplish anything concrete inr reasonable time frames?   K For instance, right now they're working on revamping the education program..D They've apparently been working on it for a while.  My guess is thatL they'll work on it for quite a while longer.  A small shop could define and C implement such a program in a week, but at Compaq it takes forever.e  J This all feels like Compaq is in permanent bureaucratic stasis.  You know,G that molasses-like environment where workers shuffle between an endless.H series of meetings, spend weeks satisfying stultifying requirements, andA don't have the authority to do anything on their own initiative. u? Consequently, the whole organization accomplishes very little.    J So, yes, maybe what this fellow said is true and the shoe has dropped, butE I'm not holding my breath waiting for the thud when it hits bottom - R8 objects fall really, really slowly in a viscous medium.    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu0? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech  J **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2000 09:15:20 -0700* From: dunnett@mala.bc.ca (Malcolm Dunnett)E Subject: Re: Not waiting for the shoe to drop. was: Re: VAX on Intel?m, Message-ID: <Ej$G1Y9JH2CG@malvm2.mala.bc.ca>  - In article <8io28d$lb4@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, e7    mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:r  ^ > In article <394EF02F.6A4174B1@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:L >>During a recent presentation, the new president of compaq Canada did admitJ >>that Compaq was still seen and measured as a PC company, but in the next? >>months they would take serious action to try to correct that.  >   ?    Do you really think this means anything other than that theyoC will try to convince the world that 8 way Proliant servers running o Windows 2000 aren't "PC"s ?-  M > One of the reason's Compaq's stock price is perpetually in the doldrums is bI > that Q management moves with all the alacrity of flowing tar - at room 6 > temperature. > M > For instance, right now they're working on revamping the education program. F > They've apparently been working on it for a while.  My guess is thatN > they'll work on it for quite a while longer.  A small shop could define and E > implement such a program in a week, but at Compaq it takes forever.e >   J    Is this yet another case where they lock themselves in a room to decideG what we want/need, then call up one or two customers to see if it's OK  I with them, then tell us all that they screwed the program up because it's  what the customers wanted?  F    From what I can see (in Canada) the only changes Compaq has made toJ the education program have been negative ones ( scrapping the edu discountE on Pathworks ). Why would you think this "revamping" will make thingsiF better? Isn't it more likely that the longer they take to announce the7 changes the more time you have before disaster strikes?*   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:39:24 -0400 5 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam>e" Subject: OpenVMS Customer Database6 Message-ID: <8ioa7i$str$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  H Based on the response from this newsgroup regarding the VMS poster a fewD months ago.  The Compaq OpenVMS Group is in the process of gathering) customer names for our customer database.o  I Once folks are added to the database they receive a hardcopy package on asI regular basis.  This package will contain a letter from Richard Marcello,*D our Vice President and either brochures/collateral, posters,  and on occasion a small gift.  D If you would like to be included in this database please send me the following information.  I Please note:  You may add other people from your company, but please makew# sure you have their approval first.i  7 Send to STAR::S_Skonetski or Susan.Skonetski@compaq.comt   Name:s Company: Title: Address:  
 Email Address  Your Compaq contact:+ How long have you used VMS (Open is silent)c   Thanks so much,e  
 Sue Skonetskin Compaq   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 17:44:18 GMTs= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)o& Subject: Re: OpenVMS Customer Database0 Message-ID: <009EBE46.1874C658@SendSpamHere.ORG>  n In article <8ioa7i$str$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam> writes:I >Based on the response from this newsgroup regarding the VMS poster a fewnE >months ago.  The Compaq OpenVMS Group is in the process of gatheringk* >customer names for our customer database.  / What was this poster?  Ne'er did agit me one...    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 11:32:54 -0400j' From: "Bob Paluses" <bpaluses@pwrr.com>M) Subject: ORACLE on Open VMS sites in MA ?3. Message-ID: <skv3kqo4e7f72@corp.supernews.com>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_055A_01BFDAAB.46AD79A0l Content-Type: text/plain;s 	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablea   HI,h  F  Looking for a site in the central MA area that is running ORACLE on =J OpenVMS. We are looking into converting from RMS (don't laugh - it still =H works and it's paid for :) :)  ) to ORACLE and would like to chat with =I anyone who has recently done the same in order to get a feeling for any =* pitfalls, etc.   Thanks in advance,   Bob Palusese Providence & Worcester Railroade Worcester, Ma.   BPALUSES@PWRR.COMo  + ------=_NextPart_000_055A_01BFDAAB.46AD79A0y Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1"t+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printables  > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>3 <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =n http-equiv=3DContent-Type>9 <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>o <STYLE></STYLE>* </HEAD>* <BODY bgColor=3D#f0e8d8>7 <DIV><FONT face=3D"Century Schoolbook">HI,</FONT></DIV>- <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>2H <DIV><FONT face=3D"Century Schoolbook">&nbsp;Looking for a site in the =
 central MA=20eH area that is running ORACLE on OpenVMS. We are looking into converting = from RMS=20 I (don't laugh - it still works and it's paid for :) :)&nbsp; ) to ORACLE =e and=20H would like to chat with anyone who has recently done the same in order = to get a=20t+ feeling for any pitfalls, etc.</FONT></DIV>o <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>oF <DIV><FONT face=3D"Century Schoolbook">Thanks in advance,</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> ? <DIV><FONT face=3D"Century Schoolbook">Bob Paluses</FONT></DIV>tD <DIV><FONT face=3D"Century Schoolbook">Providence &amp; Worcester=20 Railroad</FONT></DIV>cB <DIV><FONT face=3D"Century Schoolbook">Worcester, Ma.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> , <DIV><FONT face=3D"Century Schoolbook"><A=20J href=3D"mailto:BPALUSES@PWRR.COM">BPALUSES@PWRR.COM</A></FONT></DIV></BOD=	 Y></HTML>   - ------=_NextPart_000_055A_01BFDAAB.46AD79A0--e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:53:55 +0000s$ From: Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk3 Subject: Re: Re[2]: Techwise report on availabilitys/ Message-ID: <00256904.0046F2EE.00@quegw01.btyp>a  = Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza   ; Isn't Jerry Springer the only person who wears them now...?    :-)y   Steve Spires        A "Terry C. Shannon" <shannon@world.std.com> on 19/06/2000 21:28:16g    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages)eN From:      "Terry C. Shannon" <shannon@world.std.com>, 19 June 2000, 9:28 p.m.  * Re: Re[2]: Techwise report on availability          7 "WILLIAM WEBB" <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> wrote in message ' news:0033000000036554000002L042*@MHS...o   <snip>   And when did the Gartner< Group did write something positive about VMS the last time ?    K Ummm, probably about the same time the Armani Fashion Clothes Company wrote  something positive about VMS.-   Cheers,a   Terry S E Who says NO to Armani Suits and the Losers Who Wear Them (Probability> Factor: 1.0)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 15:01:38 +0000 ) From: Massimo Grion <mgrion@esrin.esa.it>a Subject: Symbols & Pipe commandc, Message-ID: <394F8752.30990F59@esrin.esa.it>  > How  do I get a command line like the first one below to work?  E $ Pipe sh sym | sea sys$input cache | read sys$input mysymbol ; write  sys$output mysymbolx $i $ write sys$output mysymboln  E that is, how do I define a symbol as the filtered output, that is theo" string output of the pipe command?   I cannot work this one out.c   Thanks,e Max.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 15:44:13 GMTt= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)g# Subject: Re: Symbols & Pipe commanda0 Message-ID: <009EBE35.51B72A89@SendSpamHere.ORG>  X In article <394F8752.30990F59@esrin.esa.it>, Massimo Grion <mgrion@esrin.esa.it> writes:? >How  do I get a command line like the first one below to work?  > F >$ Pipe sh sym | sea sys$input cache | read sys$input mysymbol ; write >sys$output mysymbol >$ >$ write sys$output mysymbol > F >that is, how do I define a symbol as the filtered output, that is the# >string output of the pipe command?  >  >I cannot work this one out. >u >Thanks, >Max.t >     2 FAQ time!!!  This question comes up all too often.  
 $ PIPE ( -          SHOW SYSTEM | -"          SEARCH SYS$PIPE CACHE | -          ( -"            READ SYS$PIPE $TMP$ ; -*            DEFINE/JOB/NOLOG $TMP$ &$TMP$ -          ) -        ) ; -   LINE == F$trnlnm("$TMP$"); -   DEASSIGN/JOB $TMP$ $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT LINEC     Or,"  < $ PIPE SHOW SYSTEM | SEARCH SYS$PIPE CACHE | SYMBOL/SET LINE  < Of course, the latter assumes you have SYMBOL installed.  ;)     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMw   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 02:14:36 -0400a' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>w Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?( Message-ID: <8in1sp$dqv$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:394EF02F.6A4174B1@videotron.ca... > Bill Todd wrote:I > > To be blunt, David, Compaq doesn't care if you can get past the pricekH > > barrier in a sales effort, unless there are enough customers for you (and< > > others like you) to make the sale profitable for Compaq. > E > Not sure profits are that important. Look at Compaq's insistance atA pushingBK > "industry standard" platforms (eg: Intel 8086 servers) instead of its ownlE > platforms which are more profitable. Look at Compaq's insistance onw pushinge > Windows over VMS.r  K While it will be critical to get Compaq itself to look at (and change) this J behavior if VMS is ever going to get a real chance for a comeback, I'm notK sure it applies to the present discussion.  Saying that profits take a back E seat to politics (or other internal reasoning behind the behavior youhI describe) in situations where VMS and Windows both offer viable solutionsaL (in the eyes of the customer, regardless of where people like us might thingH VMS is viable) just means that's just another obstacle to getting CompaqL interested in making VMS competitive in the very low end, not that they'd be= likely to waive profit considerations in VMS's *favor* there.    > I > I think that Compaq is still measured by Wall Street in number of intelt PCs J > shipped and not in terms of CPU power. Compaq looks better when it sells 1000H > PCs than when it sells a single Wildfire, even if the same of a single8 > Wildfire yields more processing power and more profit.  F That's certainly what Capellas sounds like, whenever he's talking to aL general (rather than a VMS-salted) audience.  And there may be at least some rational explanation for it.  G To be a full-service vendor (like IBM, better than HP, and Sun and DellwL aren't even in the running there), Compaq must continue to offer a strong PCK range.  Unlike IBM, which has a *very* credible system presence outside theaJ PC area in S/390, AS/400, and RS/6000, Compaq's core business is perceivedI as PCs, a perception only reinforced by the problems it's had integratingfD the DEC acquisition (Tandem seems to function more as a wholly-ownedI subsidiary and tends to get ignored when Compaq's general health is beinga
 examined).  J I believe that Compaq won't survive (as anything like the force it is now,J even in its relative disarray) without solidifying its non-PC offerings toI make them as credible as IBM's.  But it has a chicken-and-egg problem, ineK that *until* it does that, its perceived strength will depend mostly on its L PC business.  And even IBM isn't really getting out of the PC business (hey,J when a customer wants a single-vendor solution, or gilt-edged hardware andK service, IBM wants to give it to them) - it just isn't bothering to compete ? at the cut-throat level, because the profits just aren't there.r   >hL > During a recent presentation, the new president of compaq Canada did admitJ > that Compaq was still seen and measured as a PC company, but in the next? > months they would take serious action to try to correct that.  >iL > Until they stop being measured in terms of PCs shipped, by wall street andJ > trade rags, Compaq has no choice but to continue to push to sell as many > billyboxes as it can.a  L Sounds as if we're saying much the same thing.  It will be interesting (someH people more invested in VMS or Compaq might have a stronger adjective toL offer) to see whether Compaq can rise to the challenge this presents or willI just slide slowly down the tubes as DEC did, blindly seeking next-quarter  profits.   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 02:30:33 -04000- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?+ Message-ID: <394F0F88.84B4D6D@videotron.ca>)   Bill Todd wrote:J > As for your argument below, it falls apart on the first premise.  CompaqL > *has* resellers, it just doesn't have resellers in the very-low-end market  N But the resellers *are* the problem. If Compaq wants VMS to be competitive, itN has to sell direct and bypass all the unnecessary fluff of resellers. But moreM importantly, resellers have no vested interest in pushing VMS and they don't.uL And because Compaq is detached from the potential customers, they don't evenI see the lost sales and potential applications where VMS would have been ap great solution.   H In the past, this problem was alleviated through DECUS because it gave a? second avenue for information to get from customers to Digipaq.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 02:41:45 -0400n- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?, Message-ID: <394F1228.C0CA95C6@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:N > Sounds as if we're saying much the same thing.  It will be interesting (someJ > people more invested in VMS or Compaq might have a stronger adjective toN > offer) to see whether Compaq can rise to the challenge this presents or willK > just slide slowly down the tubes as DEC did, blindly seeking next-quarterr
 > profits.    M The problem, and that has been on-going throughout the 80s, is that from timelL to time, we are baited with some nice carrot which gives us hope that thingsI will change. Everytime this is done, Digitpaq buys some time. But do theykI really deliver, or start from scratch whenever they show a small carrot ?l  M But at one point, you have to look back and see what has happened over time.  H There were great hopes when Compaq took over. Even that "petrol pump" adL showing "VMS" (without the pesky "open" word). Great hopes that Compaq mightS start to seriously market VMS, price it competitively etc etc.  It hasn't happened.e    J And Copmpaq flopped the Wildfire introduction big time. Again, great hopesJ that Wildfire would attract much media attention and make the news and forN once remove credibility whenever Intel claims to have the fastest processor inJ the world. Instead, Compaq continues to say that the 8086 is the "industryI standard", implicitely saying that Alpha isn't and thus doesn't have muchn future as a popular chip.o  N How long must we wait before we can pass judgement on Compaq's handling of VMS marketing ?t  J I think that so far, Compaq has managed to show some interest in VMS , butN only with existing (loyal) customers. But outside of that circle, Compaq isn'tM talking about VMS. And when customers see that, Compaq loses credibility whentB they come back to those loyal customers with another nice "thing".   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 06:23:03 -0400t& From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@Killeen.cc> Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?% Message-ID: <394f44a7@news.toast.net>   2 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message" news:8in1sp$dqv$1@pyrite.mv.net...L > I believe that Compaq won't survive (as anything like the force it is now,L > even in its relative disarray) without solidifying its non-PC offerings to  > make them as credible as IBM's   http://www.compaq.com/zle/       --     Jeff Killeen - www.Killeen.cc*E =====================================================================    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Jun 2000 14:44:37 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?, Message-ID: <8io00l$lb4@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  Y In article <FwEsH9.Hou@world.std.com>, "Terry C. Shannon" <shannon@world.std.com> writes:o1 >> Even if VMS were priced competitively with W2K9  G Have any of you actually priced W2K servers?  I have not, but I've seen G references to them costing much, much more than WNT servers.  So maybe <J there is some room for OpenVMS pricewise, at least versus W2K.  Of course H if the real competition is Linux then its going to be a bit hard to beat that on purchase price.a   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech     ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:04:12 -0400l' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>l Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?( Message-ID: <8io4e2$6lo$1@pyrite.mv.net>  I I interpreted 'resellers' as VARs/ISVs - i.e., those who add identifiablenK value to the underlying VMS system and sell the result as a package, rather.K than simply 'retailers' of the same system they receive from Compaq.  TheseoI people do help VMS, and Compaq needs to encourage them - but that doesn'thL extend to pushing VMS into areas that might be profitable for them but would not be profitable for Compaq.m   - bill  8 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message% news:394F0F88.84B4D6D@videotron.ca...  > Bill Todd wrote:L > > As for your argument below, it falls apart on the first premise.  CompaqG > > *has* resellers, it just doesn't have resellers in the very-low-endt market >e@ > But the resellers *are* the problem. If Compaq wants VMS to be competitive, itoK > has to sell direct and bypass all the unnecessary fluff of resellers. But  moreH > importantly, resellers have no vested interest in pushing VMS and they don't.I > And because Compaq is detached from the potential customers, they don'tm evenK > see the lost sales and potential applications where VMS would have been a, > great solution.2 >0J > In the past, this problem was alleviated through DECUS because it gave aA > second avenue for information to get from customers to Digipaq.m   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Jun 2000 18:21:28 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?* Message-ID: <394f9a08$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  a In article <8io00l$lb4@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:aZ >In article <FwEsH9.Hou@world.std.com>, "Terry C. Shannon" <shannon@world.std.com> writes:2 >>> Even if VMS were priced competitively with W2K >sH >Have any of you actually priced W2K servers?  I have not, but I've seenG >references to them costing much, much more than WNT servers. So maybe e? >there is some room for OpenVMS pricewise, at least versus W2K.l  J The problem with this is, that the "upgrade price" from NT to W2K is stillF "cheap", so nobody really paying the real W2K price stated previously.D M$ is not so silly to increase the prices immediately. They increaseH them slowly (just like a crack dealer) eg. by providing some special W2KJ variants (like Terminal Server, Enterprise, massive SMP, 64bit, ...) whereK some of them are still not available (so nobody can be shocked by the price8I now). And in the meantime, more NT servers or small W2K licenses are sold,I and the "upgrade" price (and the hidden maint costs of the M$ crap) stillp' doesn't count on immediate purchases...S  I So, you may still buy M$ shares. If M$ does loose the case at the supremeaH court and gets divorced, it _is_ worth the money. And if M$ wins, we allJ get really much money (for our M$ shares) for the pain we got cause of M$.I And in the meantime, M$ shares will climb because of the earnings because-< of the still fast increasing installed base of M$ systems...   -- u< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888t< FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netF <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 12:50:56 -0400:' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>h Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?( Message-ID: <8io75n$8ks$1@pyrite.mv.net>  J Didn't find anything new there to change my first impression when I lookedI at 'zle' a while ago that it was marketing fluff based on a configurationtG that could have been put together by anyone with access to a reasonably9E high-end (in this case, Tandem Himalaya) system and satellites.  ThisBJ impression was reinforced by the fatuous statement in the white paper that= adding a millisecond to the transaction time in a 350 million>I transactions-per-day envrironment would make the system untenable - as ifEG there were no parallism involved and the transaction latency was in theb- hundred-microsecond range in the first place.V  F Tandem could have put together such a system before its acquisition byB Compaq - they just would have had to resell the PC parts of it (orI coordinate the integration of PCs purchased by the client) and substitute K Tandem components for the Alpha parts.  Or some third party could have donesG the job.  The fact that Compaq happens to own all the components of thesJ system is a relatively small advantage (though does play well to customersI who want a single point of contact):  all the integration is via industryDK standards that anyone can take advantage of, and it's not clear that CompaqhK is doing a particularly better job in this case than anyone else could havecK (and IBM could certainly have matched the single-point-of-contact advantageV	 as well).=  E The existence of this amalgam demonstrates neither the kind of uniquePG (hence, leverageable) integration nor pan-system credibility that I was1B talking about.  Tandem remains a niche (though an important niche)L architecture which it seems likely Compaq will be reluctant to 'commoditize'K and bring within the price range of common customers, while Tru64 remains auF distant also-ran in the Unix sweeps (and seems unlikely to improve itsK position as the Unix market moves toward commoditization around Linux - andyG maybe Monterey, though that's more debatable) and VMS languishes in the9J Compaq doghouse (though they've at least started to patch its roof).  It'sD been two years since the DEC acquisition (and three since the TandemJ acquisition, though in that case Compaq seems content to leave well enoughK alone):  Compaq likely has a very limited amount of time to bring its AlphasK systems into the limelight where they can reinforce its PC offerings beforerL its remaining customers turn elsewhere for solutions because they just don'tK trust Tru64's and VMS's (and hence to a significant degree Compaq's) futureiK viability - compared to their trust in IBM's and HP's single-vendor product J lines, or in multi-vendor options that include Dell, or even single-vendor PC configurations sold by Dell.1  K Oh, yeah:  the zle white paper glowingly describes how Himalaya, Tru64, andPJ Proliant work together to achieve this marketing breakthrough.  No mention of VMS, though.k   - bill  / Jeff Killeen <Jeff@Killeen.cc> wrote in messageu news:394f44a7@news.toast.net... 4 > "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message$ > news:8in1sp$dqv$1@pyrite.mv.net...I > > I believe that Compaq won't survive (as anything like the force it iso now,K > > even in its relative disarray) without solidifying its non-PC offerings- to" > > make them as credible as IBM's >M > http://www.compaq.com/zle/ >  >i >S > -- >r >, > Jeff Killeen - www.Killeen.cc&G > =====================================================================t >e >9 >7   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:01:10 -0400w' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>o Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?( Message-ID: <8io7oq$8m6$1@pyrite.mv.net>  = David Mathog <mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu> wrote in messageo& news:8io00l$lb4@gap.cco.caltech.edu...; > In article <FwEsH9.Hou@world.std.com>, "Terry C. Shannon"u <shannon@world.std.com> writes:I3 > >> Even if VMS were priced competitively with W2K  > I > Have any of you actually priced W2K servers?  I have not, but I've seenSH > references to them costing much, much more than WNT servers.  So maybeK > there is some room for OpenVMS pricewise, at least versus W2K.  Of course J > if the real competition is Linux then its going to be a bit hard to beat > that on purchase price.   I I've seen Win2K Server's discounted street price as $839, Advanced ServercL (the lowest level at which 'clustering' is supported) at around $3300 (a fewB hundred dollars less at outfits which may or may not be pricing itH 'legally'), and Datacenter hasn't yet shipped (and apparently is gettingC delayed yet again) - though quite a while ago I seem to remember aneE indication that its price would be close to $10K.  Those are separateoK software prices, though:  I don't know if they get significantly discountediJ (as the OEM workstation software prices are) when purchased with hardware.   - bill   > 
 > Regards, >a > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduf@ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:09:21 -0700t2 From: "Randy Park" <rjpark@mindspring.com.nospaam> Subject: Re: VAX/VMS networkingo2 Message-ID: <8io58t$aa6$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>  ; The Wollongong product was called WIN/TCP. In 91-92 it used 7 the License Management Facility (LMF).  But LMF was nota. available for use by non-DEC software in 1989.  ; Richard B. Gilbert <DRAGON@compuserve.com> wrote in messagee1 news:200006192150_MC2-A95F-789D@compuserve.com...aJ         A machine that old may not have *any* TCP/IP software installed orH licensed.  DECnet, not TCP/IP is/was the native VMS networking protocol.H The possible candidates for a TCP/IP package are UCX, CMU-TEK, Multinet,G the Wollongong product now known as Pathway (I don't remember what theye2 called it then), or Fusion  from Network Research.  I         LICENSE LIST may show you a license for a TCP/IP package. CMU was I cheapware from Carnegie-Mellon, no license will appear.  UCX, if present,WG will have a UCX license.  Multinet now uses the VMS license database, IoF don't know if it did back in 1990!   Don't know if/how the others were	 licensed.d  I         If you find UCX, try @SYS$MANAGER:UCX$CONFIG.  Select "Core" fromnJ the menu and configure the interface with the current IP address, netmask, etc.  D         If it's one of the others you'll either have to resurect the< documentation and read it or find someone who knows and ask.  I         You might also want to try to establish that the data is still onrH the system and still readable!   The disk it was on may not even spin up
 any more!!  K         Your best bet might be to hand the system to a professional and ask J him to retrieve the data for you.  Muller Media Conversions (212) 344-0474F should be able to read whatever the data is on and put the data on theG medium of your choice, perhaps as a tar file.  Ask for Chris Muller andg tell him "Dragon" sent you.e    " Message text written by "rbcannon"B >My company has pulled a Microvax 3100 running VAX/VMS v5.4 out of	 mothballseA and wants some data off of it. What is the command/procedures fortJ configuring the Microvax to operate on ethernet (TCP/IP). I want to ftp toI the Microvax from an HP-UX Unix workstation. It is currently connected onbK the network, but I am unable to ping the Microvax and cannot find a networknI configuration command. At one time, the Microvax was networked, but maybev% lost the config data upon power down.  -- /rct rcannon@ieee.org<t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 16:49:43 +0930 / From: Mark Daniel <mark.daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au> 9 Subject: Re: VMSeti CGI script update - for VMS SETI@homed/ Message-ID: <394F1B0F.BA0EBF29@wasd.vsm.com.au>t   Wayne Sewell wrote:o  Q > The only problem I see with this is that it assumes you have only *one* machinePL > running seti, i.e. it appears the directory in which it looks for the .sahP > files must be hard coded in the script.  When you are running seti on multipleM > machines, or even multiple cpus on the same machine, you have multiple setiMN > directories, each with its own independent set of .sah files.  Therefore theE > package needs some type of parameter, so that you can tell it whicheO > machine/cpu/directory to access.  Or it could accumulate the information from-Q > all the directories if they are in the same cluster-available tree as mine are:e >.1 > LAUREL_DISK2:[SETI.CHICO_CPU1]USER_INFO.SAH;124 1 > LAUREL_DISK2:[SETI.HARDY_CPU1]USER_INFO.SAH;336l1 > LAUREL_DISK2:[SETI.HARPO_CPU1]USER_INFO.SAH;457s1 > LAUREL_DISK2:[SETI.LARRY_CPU1]USER_INFO.SAH;154l2 > LAUREL_DISK2:[SETI.LAUREL_CPU1]USER_INFO.SAH;6282 > LAUREL_DISK2:[SETI.LAUREL_CPU2]USER_INFO.SAH;598/ > LAUREL_DISK2:[SETI.MOE_CPU1]USER_INFO.SAH;151s  ( From VMSETI.C description under 'SETUP':  G "Data files can also be located by supplying a path to the script.  TheiH translation of this path must be the RMS-syntax directory containing theC required data files.  In this way a default location can be provideaE using the script wrapping procedure and if the site supports multiplesH processing streams these can be selected by supplying a URL containing a path along with the script."  3 Hence have a number of bookmarks or links setup ...-  <   http://the.node.name/cgi-bin/vmseti/disk2/seti/chico_cpu1/<   http://the.node.name/cgi-bin/vmseti/disk2/seti/harpo_cpu1/  G You may need to set up some or alternate mapping to get to the /disk2/.f   Hope this helps.  E +-------------------------------------------------------------------+MD  Mark Daniel            Opinions my own ... and on loan from others.E  mailto:Mark.Daniel@wasd.vsm.com.au (Mark.Daniel@dsto.defence.gov.au)sE +-------------------------------------------------------------------+t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:03:08 -0700 @ From: "Russell E. Owen" <owen@astroNOJNK.washington.edu.invalid>5 Subject: What happened to SET PROTOCOL UDP/BROADCAST?d2 Message-ID: <8io84b$435q$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>  F The manaul "DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS System Services and C  Socket Programming" says:o    ? 2.15.2 Sending Broadcast Datagrams with OpenVMS System Servicess  E To broadcast datagrams, issue a $QIO system service command with the t IO$_WRITEVBLK function.   B Before issuing broadcast messages, the application must issue the H IO$_SETMODE function. This sets the broadcast option in the socket. The H process must have a system UIC, and a SYSPRV, BYPASS, or OPER privilege E to issue broadcast messages. However, the system manager can disable b@ privilege checking with the management command SET PROTOCOL UDP G /BROADCAST. For more information, refer to DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for t OpenVMS Management.     I I will be broacasting UDP packets. The acount has OPER privilege, but is  C not a "system UIC". So I looked up the suggested command and is no lC longer exists, with absolutely no hint as to what replaced it. Grr.o  G Any suggestions? How dangerous is it to set up an account as a "system  I UIC"? I've been trying to convert an application from an old Multinet to  F UCX 5.0a and I'm getting really frustrated. It's getting to the point 7 where I'm really starting to regret being on a VMS box.-  
 -- Russell   ------------------------------  / Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 09:24:24 +0200 (MET DST)j& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>5 Subject: Re: What's happeb with the OpenVMS Webpages?c/ Message-ID: <200006200627.IAA28610@fom.fgan.de>.   Hello,  D today I do not have any problem with the OpenVMS Webpage. Looks like' temporarly failure (read timeout, etc).o Thank's for all the answers.   Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 16:46:39 +0200-* From: Frederik Meerwaldt <fm_wrong@gmx.de>D Subject: Re: Which cpu does Sun server use: I386, Mip, Ppc or Alpha?& Message-ID: <394F83CF.45B1B458@gmx.de>   Hi!m > L > >> One could if one was being cruel make the same point about Compaq, "who9 > knows what Compaq really plan with/for MERCED/ALPHA :-)9 > <<<r > K > Yep, one could, except that Compaq has been very clear that Alpha will bewI > its high end chip architecture for OpenVMS, Tru64, Himalayan, and Linuxe > OS's.  > N > As previous reply stated, to make this very clear, Compaq announced it would$ > not be porting Tru64 UNIX to IA64.    
 Yippie!!!!   > K > Now, if one was being cruel, one could make the point "What is Sun's highn4 > end chip strategy going to be? SPARC III or IA64?"  A Sun and high end??? ROTFLBTC Hey look... The ant in my garden hass started reading the bible.   >  > :-)o :-))))   Regards, 	Freddy-   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 15:51:39 +0001d From: bench1@parsmail.comu Subject: your imaging supplies$ Message-ID: <251250913@MVB.SAIC.COM>   BENCHMARK SUPPLY 5334 LAKE VIEW CLUBi ATLANTA GA 30338  $ ***LASER PRINTER TONER CARTRIDGES*** ***FAX AND COPIER TONER***  a9 WE ACCEPT GOVERNMENT, SCHOOL & UNIVERSITY PURCHASE ORDERSy< JUST LEAVE YOUR PO # WITH CORRECT BILLING & SHIPPING ADDRESS  > CHECK OUT OUR NEW CARTRIDGE PRICES FOR THE FOLLOWING PRINTERS:  n   APPLE   e-   LASER WRITER  PRO 600 OR 16/600         $69 -   LASER WRITER SELECT 300,310.360         $69M.   LASER WRITER 300, 320                   $54 .   LASER WRITER LS,NT,2NTX,2F,2G & 2SC     $54 .   LASER WRITER 12/640                     $79    HEWLETT PACKARD   .   LASERJET SERIES 2,3 & 3D (95A)          $49 .   LASERJET SERIES  2P AND 3P (75A)        $54 .   LASERJET SERIES 3SI AND 4SI (91A)       $75 .   LASERJET SERIES 4L AND 4P               $49 .   LASERJET SERIES 4, 4M, 5, 5M, 4+ (98A)  $59 .   LASERJET SERIES 4000 HIGH YIELD  (27X)  $99 .   LASERJET SERIES 4V                      $95 .   LASERJET SERIES 5SI , 8000              $95 .   LASERJET SERIES 5L AND 6L               $49 .   LASERJET SERIES 5P, 5MP, 6P, 6MP        $59 -   LASERJET SERIES 5000 (29A)             $135a.   LASERJET SERIES 1100 (92A)              $49 -   LASERJET SERIES 2100 (96A)              $84 #   LASERJET SERIES 8100 (82X)		 $145f     HP LASERFAX   .   LASERFAX 500, 700, FX1,                 $59 .   LASERFAX 5000, 7000, FX2,               $59 .   LASERFAX  FX3                           $69 .   LASERFAX  FX4                           $79       LEXMARK   .   OPTRA  4019, 4029  HIGH YIELD          $135 .   OPTRA R, 4039, 4049 HIGH YIELD         $135 .   OPTRA S 4059 HIGH YIELD                $135 .   OPTRA E                                 $59 .   OPTRA  N                               $115       EPSON   .   EPL-7000, 8000                         $105 .   EPL-1000, 1500                         $105   n   CANON   .   LBP-430                                 $49 .   LBP-460, 465                            $59 .   LBP-8 II                                $54 .   LBP-LX                                  $54 .   LBP-MX                                  $95 .   LBP-AX                                  $49 .   LBP-EX                                  $59 .   LBP-SX                                  $49 .   LBP-BX                                  $95 .   LBP-PX                                  $49 .   LBP-WX                                  $95 .   LBP-VX                                  $59 .   CANON FAX L700 THRU L790 FX1            $59 .   CANONFAX L5000 L70000  FX2              $59   l   CANON COPIERS   .   PC 20, 25 ETC....                       $89 .   PC 3, 6RE, 7, 11  (A30)                 $69 .   PC 320 THRU 780  (E40)                  $89   m   NEC   -   SERIES 2 LASER MODEL 90,95             $105o     PLEASE NOTE:  . 2) WE DO NOT SEND OUT CATALOGS OR PRICE LISTS ) 3) WE DO NOT FAX QUOTES OR PRICE LISTS.  g7 4) WE DO NOT SELL TO RESELLERS OR BUY FROM DISTRIBUTERSf> 5) WE DO NOT CARRY: BROTHER-MINOLTA-KYOSERA-PANASONIC PRODUCTS; 6) WE DO NOT CARRY: XEROX-FUJITSU-OKIDATA OR SHARP PRODUCTS.1 7) WE DO NOT CARRY ANY COLOR PRINTER SUPPLIES     7 8) WE DO NOT CARRY DESKJET/INKJET OR BUBBLEJET SUPPLIESa= 9) WE DO NOT BUY FROM OR SELL TO RECYCLERS OR REMANUFACTURERSS                      n  ( ****OUR  ORDER LINE IS 770-399-0953 ****  2 ****OUR CUSTOMER SERVICE  LINE IS 800-586-0540****= ****OUR E-MAIL REMOVAL AND COMPLAINT LINE IS 888-494-8597****   % ****PLACE YOUR ORDER AS FOLLOWS**** :d   BY PHONE   770-399-0953    BY FAX:    770-698-9700 ! BY MAIL:   BENCHMARK PRINT SUPPLYe            5334 LAKE VIEW CLUB            ATLANTA GA 30338s  ? MAKE SURE YOU INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION IN YOUR ORDER: f  #              1)  YOUR PHONE NUMBER h              2)  COMPANY NAME "              3)  SHIPPING ADDRESS               4)  YOUR NAME l.              5)  ITEMS NEEDED WITH QUANTITIES 9              6)  METHOD OF PAYMENT. (COD OR CREDIT CARD) h9              7)  CREDIT CARD NUMBER WITH EXPIRATION DATE i    >: 1) WE SHIP UPS GROUND. ADD $4.5 FOR SHIPPING AND HANDLING.3 2) COD CHECK ORDERS ADD $3.5 TO YOUR SHIPPING COST.d3 2) WE ACCEPT ALL MAJOR CREDIT CARD OR "COD" ORDERS.c8 3) OUR STANDARD MERCHANDISE REFUND POLICY IS NET 30 DAYS> 4) OUR STANDARD MERCHANDISE REPLCAMENT POLICY IS NET 90 DAYS.      NOTE NUMBER (1): s  8 PLEASE DO NOT CALL OUR ORDER LINE TO REMOVE YOUR E-MAIL < ADDRESS OR COMPLAIN. OUR ORDER LINE IS NOT SETUP TO FORWARD 5 YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS REMOVAL REQUESTS OR PROCESS YOUR n9 COMPLAINTS..IT WOULD BE A WASTED PHONE CALL.YOUR ADDRESS o6 WOULD NOT BE REMOVED AND YOUR COMPLAINTS WOULD NOT BE 5 HANDLED.PLEASE CALL OUR TOLL FREE E-MAIL REMOVAL AND   COMPLAINT LINE TO DO THAT.   NOTE NUMBER (2):  5 OUR E-MAIL RETURN ADDRESS IS NOT SETUP TO ANSWER ANY d< QUESTIONS YOU MIGHT HAVE REGARDING OUR PRODUCTS. OUR E-MAIL 7 RETURN ADDRESS IS ALSO NOT SETUP TO TAKE ANY ORDERS AT u9 THIS TIME. PLEASE CALL THE ORDER LINE TO PLACE YOUR ORDERt;  OR HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ANSWERED. OTHERWISE PLEASE CALL OUR s CUSTOMER SERCICE LINE.                e  e  e  n  r  o   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.343 ************************n important niche)L architecture which it seems likely Compaq will be reluctant to 'commoditize'K and bring within the price range of common customers, while Tru64 remains auF distant also-ran in the Unix sweeps (and seems unlikely to improve itsK position as the Unix market moves toward commoditization around Linux - andyG maybe Monterey, though that's more debatable) and VMS languishes in the9J Compaq doghouse (though they've at least started to patch its roof).  It'sD been two years s