1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 21 Jun 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 345       Contents: %ERF-E-READERR Re: %ERF-E-READERR. Re: 2nd request, why can't I get to COMPAQ.COM9 Re: Alpha DEC 2000-300 (Jensen?) - Serial port as console 9 Re: Alpha DEC 2000-300 (Jensen?) - Serial port as console 9 Re: Alpha DEC 2000-300 (Jensen?) - Serial port as console  Amazon?  Re: Amazon?  Re: Amazon?   Re: Besides Pathworks for Mac...# Cisco Has DECNet Ping - VMS Doesn't ' Re: Cisco Has DECNet Ping - VMS Doesn't ' Re: Cisco Has DECNet Ping - VMS Doesn't & Re: Compaq paying for software ports ? compaq wet site $ Re: FIND,DFU and [?]F11$MOVEFILE.TMP3 Help! Looking for VAX Architecture Reference Manual 7 Re: Help! Looking for VAX Architecture Reference Manual " Re: Looking for VAX ARM right now.A Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire) A RE: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire) ) Re: OpenVMS UCX/FTP and Internet Explorer ) Re: OpenVMS UCX/FTP and Internet Explorer 3 Oracle (was Re: Compaq paying for software ports ?)  RE: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS... Re: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS... RE: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS... RE: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS... Re: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS... RE: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS... RE: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS... RE: SLS and TL891 Robot A Re: Storage Works / Snapshots / Maybe it's (NOT) time to skip VMS ? Re: Storage Works / Snapshots / Maybe it's time to skip OpenVMS ? Re: Storage Works / Snapshots / Maybe it's time to skip OpenVMS 6 SWCC agent connectivity and client authorisation issue: Re: SWCC agent connectivity and client authorisation issue Re: VAX on Intel?  re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel? $ VMS Pipe command & symbol definition( Re: VMS Pipe command & symbol definition( Re: VMS Pipe command & symbol definition( RE: VMS Pipe command & symbol definition( Re: VMS Pipe command & symbol definition% Re: VMSmail foreign protocol question = [Fwd: SWCC agent connectivity and client authorisation issue] , [x]  Play Free With Our Casino Sign-up Bonus  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  , Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:49:34 +0107 (CEST)/ From: Tomasz Dryjanski <tdryjanski@hotmail.com>  Subject: %ERF-E-READERR 4 Message-ID: <20000621124934.36481.qmail@hotmail.com>  ; When I tried to analyze error log, I received the following  message:  > Error Log Report Generator                        Version V6.1  > %ERF-E-READERR, error reading SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSERR]ERRLOG.SYS;28 -RMS-W-RTB, 9387 byte record too large for user's buffer  @ It already happened some time ago and I have backed up (changing> it's name) the file ERRORLOG.SYS;1. And now it happened again./ Do you have an idea why? And how to prevent it?    TIA  Tomasz DryjanskiH ________________________________________________________________________H Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:47:44 GMT 1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>  Subject: Re: %ERF-E-READERR 2 Message-ID: <3950D569.498E2B37@clarityconnect.com>  D If this is for an OpenVMS Alpha system then you should be aware thatD ANALYZE/ERROR is not the utility to use to interpret errorlogs.  You1 should be using DECevent and this may be found at C http://www1.service.digital.com/svctools/decevent/decevent-kits.htm    Tomasz Dryjanski wrote:  > = > When I tried to analyze error log, I received the following 
 > message: > @ > Error Log Report Generator                        Version V6.1 > @ > %ERF-E-READERR, error reading SYS$SYSROOT:[SYSERR]ERRLOG.SYS;2: > -RMS-W-RTB, 9387 byte record too large for user's buffer > B > It already happened some time ago and I have backed up (changing@ > it's name) the file ERRORLOG.SYS;1. And now it happened again.1 > Do you have an idea why? And how to prevent it?  >  > TIA  > Tomasz DryjanskiJ > ________________________________________________________________________J > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com   --  D Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2000 15:04:06 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> 7 Subject: Re: 2nd request, why can't I get to COMPAQ.COM H Message-ID: <y4d7lbjid5.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  1 "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net> writes:   N > The bad error page was cached.  Everytime I tried to connect to compaq.com IF > brought up the cached page.  After forcing a refresh, it works fine.  L The cache servers I know don't seem to cache error pages. I also login everyH morning, and that forces at least an access/modified check on every pageF before the cached copy is used (that's a settable option in Netscape).   	Jan   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:24:59 GMT 0 From: carlini@true.lkg.dec.com (Antonio Carlini)B Subject: Re: Alpha DEC 2000-300 (Jensen?) - Serial port as console* Message-ID: <8iq115$i5h@usenet.pa.dec.com>  f In article <8iosjp$ktc$2@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Adrian Lumsden" <A.Lumsden@spamtrap.xdt.co.uk> wrote: > 4 >The good (strange) news is that the copy of the ECU3 >floppy does seem to run. The bad news is to figure 1 >out what I have to do with it. I'm familiar with . >EISA configurations on PCs (quite a few years- >ago now) but I'm a bit worried about messing 4 >with the configuration of this system since I don't3 >have any documentation about environment variables  >etc.    But you got it for free :-)   M Anyway, I have the service guide (EK-A0637-SV.001) and it has a chapter that   describes use of the ECU.   L There are two ECU diskettes (one for NT, one for OpenVMS or Unix). They are K the same apart from a few config files (or so the manual says). You should  G start with the one appropriate for your OS - or switch OS to match the  M diskette :-) The OpenVMS/Unix one is AK-Q2CRM-CA, I don't think I've seen an  $ NT one so I have no number for that.  ( Some info (for the OpenVMS/Unix system):   - F1 gets you help+ - Configure EISA devices before ISA devices M - Insert diskette and type RUNECU at the console; Y at the prompt should get     you to the main menu   To add an ISA card:  - get to ECU main menu% - choose step 2: add or remove boards   - press INS to add an ISA option - find the CFG file  - choose a slot  - ESC or F10 to main menu A - step 4: examine switches (I think this shows you how you should    set the ISA card switches  - ESC or F10 to main menu  - Step 5: Save and Exit ) - follow the prompts and shut down system  - install card' - repeat from beginning until it works.   D OK, the manual doesn't mention the last one but I bet you need it:-)  * Send mail if you need something different.   Antonio       I Antonio Carlini                            Mail: carlini@true.lkg.dec.com # DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS Engineering 6 COMPAQ                                     Reading, UK   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:31:25 -0500 " From: Earl Lakia <lakia@ipact.com>B Subject: Re: Alpha DEC 2000-300 (Jensen?) - Serial port as console) Message-ID: <3950D1BD.D0D6A1B1@ipact.com>   B I have one of the Jensen's.  In fact I intend to power it up todayF and play with it if it still runs (hasn't been powered up for awhile).  ? Anyway, I have it configured similar to yours.  I used a VT320. < Digital/Compaq did a real bad job with the ECU for this box.8 I can't remember how I had to have the VT320 set up, but6 maybe I can find my notes.  The graphic characters are; all hosed up.   If you are still having problems, email me.   2 I even have the old ECU floppy for the box I hope.   -earl  --
 Earl D. Lakia 0 Senior Staff Engineer         Web: www.ipact.com4 Snail Mail:                   Email: lakia@ipact.com
 IPACT Inc.1 260 S. Campbell St.           Phone: 219-464-7212  Valparaiso, IN 46383     Antonio Carlini wrote:  h > In article <8iosjp$ktc$2@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Adrian Lumsden" <A.Lumsden@spamtrap.xdt.co.uk> wrote: > > 6 > >The good (strange) news is that the copy of the ECU5 > >floppy does seem to run. The bad news is to figure 3 > >out what I have to do with it. I'm familiar with 0 > >EISA configurations on PCs (quite a few years/ > >ago now) but I'm a bit worried about messing 6 > >with the configuration of this system since I don't5 > >have any documentation about environment variables  > >etc.  >  > But you got it for free :-)  > N > Anyway, I have the service guide (EK-A0637-SV.001) and it has a chapter that > describes use of the ECU.  > M > There are two ECU diskettes (one for NT, one for OpenVMS or Unix). They are L > the same apart from a few config files (or so the manual says). You shouldH > start with the one appropriate for your OS - or switch OS to match theN > diskette :-) The OpenVMS/Unix one is AK-Q2CRM-CA, I don't think I've seen an& > NT one so I have no number for that. > * > Some info (for the OpenVMS/Unix system): >  > - F1 gets you help- > - Configure EISA devices before ISA devices N > - Insert diskette and type RUNECU at the console; Y at the prompt should get >   you to the main menu >  > To add an ISA card:  > - get to ECU main menu' > - choose step 2: add or remove boards " > - press INS to add an ISA option > - find the CFG file  > - choose a slot  > - ESC or F10 to main menu C > - step 4: examine switches (I think this shows you how you should  >   set the ISA card switches  > - ESC or F10 to main menu  > - Step 5: Save and Exit + > - follow the prompts and shut down system  > - install card) > - repeat from beginning until it works.  > F > OK, the manual doesn't mention the last one but I bet you need it:-) > , > Send mail if you need something different. > 	 > Antonio  > K > Antonio Carlini                            Mail: carlini@true.lkg.dec.com % > DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS Engineering 8 > COMPAQ                                     Reading, UK   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:06:42 -0500 % From: Chris Scheers <asi@airmail.net> B Subject: Re: Alpha DEC 2000-300 (Jensen?) - Serial port as consoleO Message-ID: <331496EB13C84760.5CBD2B197C60D95D.2F004AA1D07E4A98@lp.airnews.net>    Adrian Lumsden wrote:  > . > I think the floppy is OK. I have just done a/ > BACKUP /PHYSICAL/VERIFY from the ECU diskette 7 > to a saveset in a file and then done the reverse back 6 > to another floppy. It didn't report any verification0 > errors. I also did an ANALYZE /MEDIA/EXER=FULL; > on the second floppy and that didn't report any problems.  > 5 > The good (strange) news is that the copy of the ECU 4 > floppy does seem to run. The bad news is to figure2 > out what I have to do with it. I'm familiar with/ > EISA configurations on PCs (quite a few years . > ago now) but I'm a bit worried about messing5 > with the configuration of this system since I don't 4 > have any documentation about environment variables > etc. >  > Any hints or tips?  H If you are trying to set up the SRM, i.e., VMS or UNIX, there aren't any environment variables.  B Assuming that you have the standard set of EISA boards (and no ISAF boards that require configuration), you just run the ECU and then saveA the configuration.  It doesn't need anything in the way of input.   G If you have a non-standard configuration, you may need to interact with E ECU more.  Realize however, that a non-standard configuration may not  run VMS!  E If I remember correctly, you run the ECU by getting to the SRM prompt # (>>>) and using the command RUNECU.   
 Good luck!  G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  G 817-237-3360 (Voice)    817-237-3074 (Fax)    Internet: asi@airmail.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:55:08 -0400 ) From: "Ebinger . Eric" <EEbinger@drc.com>  Subject: Amazon?B Message-ID: <7162F87E9EF4D311BA9900805FC1D3AE7A6189@and02.drc.com>  . Gee, I thought Amazon threw Alpha overboard?    L http://www1.compaq.com/pressrelease/0,1494,wp%7E14583_2%21ob%7E31415_1_1,00. html   Eric Ebinger   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:11:28 +0100 B From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> Subject: Re: Amazon?* Message-ID: <3950CD0D.1F80DC9B@uk.sun.com>   "Ebinger . Eric" wrote:   . > Gee, I thought Amazon threw Alpha overboard? > N > http://www1.compaq.com/pressrelease/0,1494,wp%7E14583_2%21ob%7E31415_1_1,00. > html >  > Eric Ebinger  C Bizzare, someone in Compaqs marketing department seems to have been - smoking some form of mind altering substance.   E Amazon kicked the Alphaservers that were hosting most of Amazons back I end systems out in favour of HP V series machines last year in a quid pro 6 quo deal with HP (they got to sell HP kit via Amazon).  J This year they got further into bed with HP in return for more HP products) that they could sell via their web sites.        Regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:49:08 +0000 $ From: Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk Subject: Re: Amazon?/ Message-ID: <00256905.0056FF51.00@quegw01.btyp>   = Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza   $ I recall the HP/Amazon story myself.  : Has anyone seen any independant verification of this news?   Steve Spires VMS System Manager BT/Yellow Pages         J Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> on 21/06/2000 14:11:28    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages) P From:      Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>, 21 June            2000, 2:11 p.m.   Re: Amazon?          "Ebinger . Eric" wrote:   . > Gee, I thought Amazon threw Alpha overboard? > N > http://www1.compaq.com/pressrelease/0,1494,wp%7E14583_2%21ob%7E31415_1_1,00. > html >  > Eric Ebinger  C Bizzare, someone in Compaqs marketing department seems to have been - smoking some form of mind altering substance.   E Amazon kicked the Alphaservers that were hosting most of Amazons back I end systems out in favour of HP V series machines last year in a quid pro 6 quo deal with HP (they got to sell HP kit via Amazon).  J This year they got further into bed with HP in return for more HP products) that they could sell via their web sites.        Regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jun 2000 15:44:34 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann) ) Subject: Re: Besides Pathworks for Mac... 0 Message-ID: <8iqnt2$e50$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  q In article <panderson-FC15EA.11433520062000@news.bellatlantic.net>, Paul Anderson <panderson@genicom.com> writes: E >In article <8invkl$9e9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, rleathe@my-deja.com wrote:  > H >> We are currently migrating from VAX to Alpha platform. Pathworks for B >> Mac, as far as I know, will not run on Alpha 7.2. With this in 
 >> mind... > D >I run PATHWORKS for OpenVMS (Macintosh) on my OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1 B >systems and what I use (DECshare volumes and AppleTalk stack for I >printing) works fine.  I'm not aware of any part of the server software  I >that doesn't work on the latest versions of OpenVMS.  And there were no   >Y2K bugs either!  > E >The client portion does not like newer versions of the MacOS though.   K I remember a problem with certain types of Alpha processors though. Perhaps * someone can comment a bit more about that?   Regards,    Christoph Gartmann   H -----------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +------------ http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/english/menue.html -----------+   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jun 2000 12:48:38 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)X, Subject: Cisco Has DECNet Ping - VMS Doesn't' Message-ID: <8iqdj6$hvm$1@joe.rice.edu>R Keywords: decnet,ping,vms,ciscot  = Cisco routers capable of routing DECNet and LAT have a DECNeto; ping that allows the user to specify the size and number oft packets to be transmitted.  ? Is it possible to add this functionality to VMS, to be availble ? to both DECnet Phase IV and DECNet-PLUS systems, perhaps as an t enhancement of DTSEND ?   4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:04:47 -0500s7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> 0 Subject: Re: Cisco Has DECNet Ping - VMS Doesn't- Message-ID: <3950CB7F.4CEA6C15@earthlink.net>    Jerry Leslie wrote:  > ? > Cisco routers capable of routing DECNet and LAT have a DECNeti= > ping that allows the user to specify the size and number ofo > packets to be transmitted. > A > Is it possible to add this functionality to VMS, to be availble @ > to both DECnet Phase IV and DECNet-PLUS systems, perhaps as an > enhancement of DTSEND ?N   My favorite trick is:    $ TYPE node::NL:  @ ...and see whether its says the remote node is reachable or not.   Dunno if that's good enough ...R   -- E David J. Dachterao dba DJE Systemso" http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:+ http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/p   ------------------------------  , Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:09:57 +0200 (CEST): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>0 Subject: Re: Cisco Has DECNet Ping - VMS Doesn'tJ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10006211700420.9593-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  # On 21 Jun 2000, Jerry Leslie wrote:c  > +Cisco routers capable of routing DECNet and LAT have a DECNet< +ping that allows the user to specify the size and number of +packets to be transmitted.  + @ +Is it possible to add this functionality to VMS, to be availble@ +to both DECnet Phase IV and DECNet-PLUS systems, perhaps as an  +enhancement of DTSEND ?    Wait a moment.B<  I can't be sure, if in the first seen VMS version (4.2) theE test was already implemented (probably yes), but for sure on 5.X was.   &  What (you think) will do the command:  , $ mc ncp loop node ANODE count 10 lenght 120  *  suposing ANODE is node name or address ??  ;  You can also check what LOOP LINE and LOOP CIRCUIT does...   8  And I am confused, that haven't already see this answer4 on info-VAX, and also that *you* can think that some$ feature is not implemented in VMS ;) (ok, ok, don't flame me !)<  The application-level check (David, access via FAL) is the  next level of check -:)t  5 +--Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)u    Regards - Gotfryd   --E =====================================================================_F $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEp. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================i   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jun 2000 15:35:26 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)/ Subject: Re: Compaq paying for software ports ?w6 Message-ID: <8iqnbu$1tn$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  \ In article <39505486.98E80519@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: ..  H   JF, as you seem to have an interest in this area, have you checked for*   recent Compaq OpenVMS jobs listings? :-)  M :Couldn't Compaq actively get involved in the porting/writing of software for  :VMS ? e  E   We already are.  For what should be obvious reasons, I am not in a GG   position to discuss business deals nor specific arrangements nor even E   specific vendors, but we have been and are continuing to work with sG   application vendors.  One (massive) project going on here in OpenVMS  G   Engineering is specifically targeted at easing the porting of a whole_J   suite of applications over to OpenVMS, and will be useful for customers    and for a variety of vendors.M  M :Just wondering what sort of real efforts a company such as Compaq can/shoulde :be taking ?  F   We are and have been working directly with various vendors, and withE   various customers.  (I've visited and/or have exchanged email with m   more than a few of both.)-  O :I've heard rumours of Compaq getting Oracle to make some sort of commitment tonI :VMS, but in all of the public announcements I have seen, Compaq+Oracle =h
 :True64 only.o  I   There is quite a bit of information available on the work to speed the oG   availability of the ports of new Oracle releases and tools to OpenVMSaI   and to increase the suite of available Oracle tools, though apparently rG   and clearly none of this infoirmation has made it to you.  One of the 3   notes on this topic from a couple of months back:   F     http://www.openvms.digital.com/solutions/oracle/oracle-letter.html  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:32:27 GMTR/ From: "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net>c Subject: compaq wet siteG Message-ID: <%l445.13142$C44.778298@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>>  - Here I go again!   Last time it was my fault.   < But now, when I connect to COMPAQ.COM    the home page has aG hotlink on the bottom right corner about the Presario 1800T, but when It- click on it, it gives an error that includes:r   ADODB.Fields error '800a0cc1' # ADO could not find the object . . .   C Can anyone else reproduce this?  Or is this another problem with myn configuration.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2000 17:48:26 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)- Subject: Re: FIND,DFU and [?]F11$MOVEFILE.TMP * Message-ID: <3950e3ca$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  f In article <394ED00D.4617A6F@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes: >Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote:t >>To do what ?- >>DIR lists only file entered in a directory.h4 >>And as I wrote the Backlink File Id is (0,0,0) ... > D >That, in itself, is not entirely meaningful, except to say that the@ >backlink FId is "broken" ... and if the file is not listed in aF >directory, then ANALYZE/DISK/NOREPAIR should report them as such, no?  1 Yes, it should. But it doesn't. Or so it seems...   E >Try DIRECTORY/SIZE=ALL/DATE/FILE_ID/OUT=XX.LIS and SEARCH XX.LIS forh >F11$.   No entries. As expected.C AFAIK, DFG does not create temporary files entered in any directoryoE and nobody of my group does create F11$MOVEFILE.TMP files for fun ;-)s  oQ >> So, is this a real file ? Does it occupy space on the disk (eg. 189788 Blks) ? L >> Why is the FID funny and why does AN/DI not find the file as "not entered >> in a directory" or similar ?i >tF >All else fails, try SEARCHing INDEXF.SYS for F11$, or DUMP INDEXF.SYS5 >and either SEARCH the .DMP file or scan it visually.   J I did found them with DUMP. But DUMP/FILE does not interpret it correctly.H Maybe it's not a valid fileheader and therefore the asterisk in FIND andK therefore no warning by ANAL/DISK and therefore DFU DEL/FILE can't find and I delete it, but FIND can nevertheless display (some) information containedc in the file header. Comments ?   eg.e  # $ find/nam=f11$*/disp=file $1$dua1:D   [?]F11$MOVEFILE.TMP;1  File ID = (*10211,219,0)   [?]F11$MOVEFILE.TMP;1p File ID = (*10270,87,0)y   [?]F11$MOVEFILE.TMP;1  File ID = (*10308,2627,0)    [?]F11$MOVEFILE.TMP;1e File ID = (*10389,118,0)   [?]F11$MOVEFILE.TMP;1  File ID = (*13422,122,0)   $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 10211+117 10328a= $ dump/file/val/blo=(sta=10328,cou=1) $1$dua1:[0,0]indexf.sysa  E Dump of file $1$DUA1:[000,000]INDEXF.SYS;1 on 21-JUN-2000 17:28:06.93s; File ID (1,1,0)   End of file block 39108 / Allocated 40120l  7 Virtual block number 10328 (00002858), 512 (0200) bytesi  <  00000000 00DB0000 02010000 FFFF6428 (d............. 000000<  00060000 00080000 00400202 00000000 ......@......... 000010<  00000000 00000000 00000000 0000001C ................ 000020<  00010004 00000000 00000800 00000000 ................ 000030<  00000009 00000000 00000000 0000FF44 D............... 000040<  504D542E 454C4946 45564F4D 24313146 F11$MOVEFILE.TMP 000050<  1E7E009A DF5FFE48 3036000D 2020313B ;1  ..60H_..~. 000060<  1B4B0000 00000000 0000009E 98EC8F46 F............K. 000070<  20202020 20202020 2020009E A5813CF0 <...           000080<  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  000090<  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  0000A0<  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  0000B0<  00000000 00000000 20202020 20202020         ........ 0000C0<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000D0<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000E0<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000F0<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000100<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000110<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000120<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000130<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000140<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000150<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000160<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000170<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000180<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000190<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0001A0<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0001B0<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0001C0<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0001D0<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0001E0<  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0001F0     >Other than that...m  # is a disk doctor around somewhere ?    -- o< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888n< FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netF <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 12:20:50 GMT 0 From: Timothy Stark <sword7@grace.speakeasy.org>< Subject: Help! Looking for VAX Architecture Reference Manual9 Message-ID: <Cq245.198792$701.2592100@news4.giganews.com>.   Hello Folks:  J I am looking for VAX Architecture Reference Manual, 2nd Edition right now.F It is published by Digital Press and dated December 1990 or Jan. 1991.  J I was looking for it through book finder web site like www.mySimon.com butI I was unable to find it.  I was told that all books were out of stock andAD no longer available!  My Macro-32 manual asked me to look at VAX ARM manual.o  < I was unable to develop my VAX emulator without VAX ARM. :-(   Help!e   -- Tim Stark   -- tC Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.org, sword7@firesword7.neteJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:08:05 +0100 5 From: "Adrian Lumsden" <A.Lumsden@spamtrap.xdt.co.uk> @ Subject: Re: Help! Looking for VAX Architecture Reference Manual/ Message-ID: <8iqn2d$g0o$2@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>S  1 I have one of those on my shelf here (in the UK).o  ( If it helps you, the full reference is:-  9     VAX Architecture and Reference Manual, Second Editioni!     Edited by Richard A. Brunner.o     Digital Press 1991.)     Order No. EY-F576E-DPe     ISBN 1-55558-057-2:     Typesetting Paul C. Anagnostopoulos & Richard A Wells,<     using ZZTeX macro package for TeX typesetting system :-)  0 Are there specific parts of you are looking for? Or is it the whole thing?t   regards,   Adrian   --( Adrian Lumsden, XDT Computer Systems, UK" A dot Lumsden at xdt dot co dot uk  ; Timothy Stark <sword7@grace.speakeasy.org> wrote in message 3 news:Cq245.198792$701.2592100@news4.giganews.com...w > Hello Folks: >sG > I am looking for VAX Architecture Reference Manual, 2nd Edition right5 now.H > It is published by Digital Press and dated December 1990 or Jan. 1991. >hH > I was looking for it through book finder web site like www.mySimon.com but8G > I was unable to find it.  I was told that all books were out of stocki andpF > no longer available!  My Macro-32 manual asked me to look at VAX ARM	 > manual.b >n> > I was unable to develop my VAX emulator without VAX ARM. :-( >a > Help!  >n > -- Tim Stark >v > --E > Timothy Stark <>< Inet: sword7@speakeasy.org, sword7@firesword7.netgH > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----G > "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that D > whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.-0 > Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 12:27:51 GMTg0 From: carlini@true.lkg.dec.com (Antonio Carlini)+ Subject: Re: Looking for VAX ARM right now.S* Message-ID: <8iqbnr$oj9@usenet.pa.dec.com>  k In article <7ZR35.195923$701.2559687@news4.giganews.com>, Timothy Stark <sword7@grace.speakeasy.org> wrote:YD >Thank you for information about instruction sets.  I found completeF >instructions set from Macro-11 manual (at www.openvms.compaq.com).  IJ >recently am starting to develop my VAX emulator under my PDP-10 emulator.F >I read some pages and noticed that I was asked to look at VAX ARM forG >more information like page tables, models, etc...  That's why I do noto; >know how to implement console routines without ARM manual.c    M I don't know if it will help with console routines but there is at least one rM  VAX ARM up on ebay right now (#360546801) and I see them crop up reasonably n
 regularly.   Antonioe  I Antonio Carlini                            Mail: carlini@true.lkg.dec.comA# DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS Engineeringu6 COMPAQ                                     Reading, UK   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:44:27 +0100rB From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>J Subject: Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire)) Message-ID: <3950C6B7.21867FA@uk.sun.com>-   JF Mezei wrote:2   > Bill Todd wrote: > >tL > > Since a shared-disk (or even virtual-shared-disk) architecture is wholly/ > > unnecessary to achieve the clustering goalsi >gK > Are there implementations of volume shadowing which allow drives to be inaD > separate buildings, which do not do the "shared disk" philosophy ? >n  I Yes at an OS level Solaris for example has a facility called Network Data J Replicator, this basically replicates a device/volume on your local serverL over an IP network to a device attached to a remote server. This is normallyL done for DR purposes but in conjunction with the ability to do point in timeD snapshots lets you do things like reporting on the remote system(s).  K Veritas have a similar product and you can do the same kind of thing at then@ storage array level using something like SRDF on an EMC, HDS and# Sun also have a similar capability.s  I Of course if you are within say 10KM and have the infrastructure then youaC can use the basic volume shadowing software with FC/FC-AL connecteda drives at the remote site.   >mL > Are there such implementations which allow a system to be shadowed accrossJ > buildings without the application having to be written to enable such an > architecture ? >   
 yes see above    > P > If it is the application which does the job of keeping duplicate copies of itsM > data across different file servers, can you call the OPERATING SYSTEM to be L > disaster tolerant ? The application would be disaster tolerant despite theK > operating system not being so, and you'd have to choose only applicationsTH > capable of doing this. Any other software on the machine would not be. >-  
 yes see aboves   >DP > With VMS, it makes it very easy to have disaster tolerance for any applicationO > on your system, even applications which can only run on one node of a clustere > at a time.   -- Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architecti   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:10:45 -0500t5 From: "Hipenbecker, Doug" <Hipenbecker.Doug@mbco.com>aJ Subject: RE: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire)E Message-ID: <DD11CB6FEB21D41184510004ACA3715316395F@mbsus228.mbc.com>0  B Speaking as a DBA, I can attest to the *necessity* of data & indexF partitioning for large databases (data warehouses and datamarts).  TheK growth of data is exploding.  Data and index partitioning speeds retrieval,u/ reduces contention, and balances resource load.l  I Oracle RDB does data & index partitioning since V4.  Oracle borrowed this.@ from RDB and put into Oracle8 (Oracle purchased RDB).  The indexE partitioning is directly tied to the data partitioning scheme and notnL independent.  DB2/UDB(NT/Unix) has data but not index partitioning.  DB2/MVSL has index partitioning as well.  DB2 has the interesting feature of allowingE you to randomly (hash keys) spread your data across multiple databaset containers.t  K It is difficult in many situations to find a static partition basis column,:H but when it's there (plant_code or production_line) its the best kind ofG partitioning since no ongoing maintenance of the partitioning scheme iso needed.l  ? However, in almost all cases with the historical nature of data-G warehouses/datamarts, the partition basis is date (such as year/month).sJ This requires a carefully thought out ongoing partitioning update strategyF for each new year/month.  This is what DBAs don't like, however, it isH difficult to avoid having partitioning based on date...especially with a@ large data warehouse and no other reasonable partitioning basis.   Doug Hipenbecker Miller Brewing Co.   -----Original Message-----, From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@foo.mv.com]' Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 12:54 AMn To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comy@ Subject: Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on	 Wildfire)i    4 Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote in messageD news:910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284439@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com... > Bill,h >LL > >>> As I said, concurrent disk-sharing per se is markedly superior only inF > addressing relatively rare scaling issues that resist efficient data > partitioning.>>> >tJ > Would you not say that data partitioning is extremely tough to do unless youcK > have very experienced DBA's or application resources that understand whatnL > the production loads are going to be ie. the marketing folks were accurate* > in their forcast of the expected loads ?   I would say "It depends.",  J First, if you're talking databases, only Oracle Parallel Server and DB2 onB IBM's Parallel Sysplex even give you the *option* of avoiding dataJ partitioning to accommodate (or plan for) loads exceeding the capabilitiesB of a single database (SMP) node - and even they still benefit fromJ partitioning.  So the range of situations in which, say, OPS allows you toL avoid data partitioning when non-shared-disk approaches would not is limitedI to those where the database load exceeds that supportable by a single SMP E node but does not exceed that at which the unpartitioned cluster lockfH management overhead becomes excessive (and you really ought to partitionJ OPS's data to reduce it).  Given the extremely respectable capabilities ofG single SMP nodes these days, the narrowness of that range of situationsnC justifies the characterization of 'relatively rare', in my opinion.c  K Second, much data is trivially partitionable, whether in a database or in a I file system (where randomly distributing users and other entities such assE development groups across partitions is a good start).  And databasespJ provide utilities that can ease the process even for newbies (and identifyC bad choices if they make them).  So it's often standard practice topJ pre-partition easily-partitioned data even in single-node environments, toI make it easy to spread it out (without having to shuffle it:  just changei6 the ownership of its storage) if the need ever arises.   >bK > What happens when the loads increase dramatically above what was expectedo ?t  D In the case of a file system (where presumably little automated helpK exists), you assign new users to storage on new nodes that you add, or movel> some existing users' data to new nodes that you add (if you'veE pre-partitioned as described above, just move some storage to the newaJ nodes).  My guess would be that typical increases in file systems are moreL gradual than the dramatic fluctuations things like Internet server databases2 can see, so such mechanisms may be quite adequate.  B > Does the database / application not have to be re-partitioned to
 re-balance > the load?-  I Yes, and at least some databases largely automate this process.  DB2, foroI example, allows one to break up relations based on key ranges or based on L hash functions that distribute the relation across a specified set of nodes,A and my vague recollection is that other platforms provide similarnL facilities.  In the case of hashed distribution, I think I remember that DB2F uses a fixed number (4096) of hash targets, which are then distributedK across the specified set of nodes:  this makes it easy to move some of them,H to new nodes to relieve hot spots or help spread out generally-increased	 activity.i  C   Does this not mean the application and database are offline untilt; > such time as all of this repartitioning has taken place ?-  G I happen to remember that DB2 can do it on line (e.g., redistribute via F hashing over a larger set of nodes), but don't know for sure for other
 platforms.    Of course, beforeI > you can re-partition the data, backups need to be done, so that adds ton the@	 > outage.e  D I think you're 'way out of date in your thinking:  modern relational4 databases allow most restructuring to occur on line.   >nL > In a 24x7 shop, is database / application re-partitioning not a really big= > thing that IT shops want to avoid at all costs if they can?f  B If that were true, they'd use nothing but OPS (which still doesn'tK completely avoid the problem, but does allow more leeway in addressing it). J Since OPS represents a small percentage of Oracle installations, let aloneG total database installations, I'd say your perception of the problem isf greatly exaggerated.   - bill   >o
 > Regards, >p > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant, > Compaq Canada  > Professional Servicese > Voice : 613-592-4660 > FAX   : 819-772-7036 > Email : kerry.main@compaq.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:11:28 +0100 2 From: Chris Sharman <Chris.Sharman@CCAgroup.co.uk>2 Subject: Re: OpenVMS UCX/FTP and Internet Explorer. Message-ID: <395086C0.24592DB9@CCAgroup.co.uk>   Randy Jung wrote: M > just garbage. I've tracked this down to the fact that Inernet Explorer useseL > the information from the output of the FTP directory command to create theL > graphical representation and makes assumptions on which columns are files,L > file sizes and so on. I've tried it with UCX 4.2 and 5.0a and no luck. HasL > anyone been able to get it to work? Any way of forcing VMS to generate theH > results of the FTP directory command in a UNIX format instead of a VMSJ > format? It works for Netscape which I assume is using the ls command (noK > file information in that command). Any ideas or help that can get this to  > work appreciated.2  F Try MadGoat ftp (mgftp) - it offers quite a bit of configurability, toE enable you to con brain-dead ms clients into seeing what they expect.: Coexists happily with UCX.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:33:51 GMT01 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>02 Subject: Re: OpenVMS UCX/FTP and Internet Explorer2 Message-ID: <3950D228.AA4AFF05@clarityconnect.com>  G The issues here are with IE not following the RFCs and Microsoft has no0F intention to fix IE to do so.  Beat on Microsoft or choose a different FTP client..   Randy Jung wrote:  >  > Hi,5 > K > My site was looking for an easy way of transferring files to and from our0J > VMS systems and we hit upon the idea of using the FTP option in InternetK > Explorer. This works for linux, NT and just about everything else. If you K > try it for VMS, say putting FTP://vmsnode.com in the address bar it comes0N > back with a graphical representation of the directory but the file names areM > just garbage. I've tracked this down to the fact that Inernet Explorer uses.L > the information from the output of the FTP directory command to create theL > graphical representation and makes assumptions on which columns are files,L > file sizes and so on. I've tried it with UCX 4.2 and 5.0a and no luck. HasL > anyone been able to get it to work? Any way of forcing VMS to generate theH > results of the FTP directory command in a UNIX format instead of a VMSJ > format? It works for Netscape which I assume is using the ls command (noK > file information in that command). Any ideas or help that can get this to0 > work appreciated.0 > 	 > Cheers,  >  > Randy0   -- 0D Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2000 08:58:17 -0700* From: dunnett@mala.bc.ca (Malcolm Dunnett)< Subject: Oracle (was Re: Compaq paying for software ports ?), Message-ID: <m8hewEkygSGc@malvm2.mala.bc.ca>  7 In article <8iqnbu$1tn$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, 09      hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:0 > Q > :I've heard rumours of Compaq getting Oracle to make some sort of commitment toeK > :VMS, but in all of the public announcements I have seen, Compaq+Oracle =1 > :True64 only.n > K >   There is quite a bit of information available on the work to speed the  I >   availability of the ports of new Oracle releases and tools to OpenVMS0K >   and to increase the suite of available Oracle tools, though apparently tI >   and clearly none of this infoirmation has made it to you.  One of the"5 >   notes on this topic from a couple of months back:  > H >     http://www.openvms.digital.com/solutions/oracle/oracle-letter.html >   &    That would be the letter that says:  H     "We are making good progress on Oracle database server version 8.1.6F      for Compaq OpenVMS. We expect this product to be available in the      April 2000 timeframe."o  J    Here it is almost July 2000 and no sign of 8.1.6 for VMS yet ( althoughI Kerry claims he's seen it I can't find it on MetalLink or get anyone from  Oracle to admit it exists ).   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:48:58 -0300o1 From: "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com> # Subject: RE: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS...oK Message-ID: <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A0247CB@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>n  5 > From: 	Nivlesh Chandra[SMTP:NChandra001@itc.gov.fj]- > Hi guys and girls...K > I have a problem on my hands which I hope someone will be able to help me I > with.. the entry numbers for the queues have increased to a really high L > number.. the current one is 2007939 ... I tried to restart the que managerI > in the hope that it will reinitialise the numbers but it did not do any0 > such > thinga > 3 No it won't you still have too many jobs out there.H   > stop/que/mana/clustere> > start/que/manager /on=(itcs01,itcs02,itcs03) disk28:[queues] >  > J > the entry numbers are still as high as before... can someone please help > me, > to get the numbers start from zero again?? > 7 They will never go to 0, at best they can start at one.uI Delete all retained jobs and any that are easily submittable, and any you5J dont want, then use the command file I posted the other day to reset them. - Darren  	 > Nivlesh  >  >     F **********************************************************************C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential andnJ may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.M They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they0L are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copyingo of this message is prohibited.   Bank of BermudacF **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:03:10 GMTl1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>e# Subject: Re: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS....2 Message-ID: <3950CAF7.54D97D4A@clarityconnect.com>  G What problems are these numbers creating??  Entry numbers do not have a-E documented format so any software that thinks it knows the format and-F relies on this is faulty and needs to be fixed. One should treat entryG numbers as an opaque longword value and the sequencing of the job entry @ number is undocumented, and is subject to change without notice.   Nivlesh Chandra wrote: >  > Hi guys and girls...K > I have a problem on my hands which I hope someone will be able to help meoI > with.. the entry numbers for the queues have increased to a really high L > number.. the current one is 2007939 ... I tried to restart the que managerN > in the hope that it will reinitialise the numbers but it did not do any such > thingn >  > stop/que/mana/cluster > > start/que/manager /on=(itcs01,itcs02,itcs03) disk28:[queues] > M > the entry numbers are still as high as before... can someone please help mes, > to get the numbers start from zero again?? > 	 > Nivleshn   -- oD Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:27:44 -0400a0 From: arturo saavedra <arturo.saavedra@wcom.com># Subject: RE: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS...e4 Message-ID: <000001bfdb8c$dd981820$14b324a6@CJ4733A>  C I believe you might need to start a new queue manager all together.-       -----Original Message-----6 From: Mark D. Jilson [mailto:jilly@clarityconnect.com]' Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 10:03 AM: To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComR# Subject: Re: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS...e    G What problems are these numbers creating??  Entry numbers do not have arE documented format so any software that thinks it knows the format andtF relies on this is faulty and needs to be fixed. One should treat entryG numbers as an opaque longword value and the sequencing of the job entryi@ number is undocumented, and is subject to change without notice.   Nivlesh Chandra wrote: >v > Hi guys and girls...K > I have a problem on my hands which I hope someone will be able to help meeI > with.. the entry numbers for the queues have increased to a really highoL > number.. the current one is 2007939 ... I tried to restart the que managerI > in the hope that it will reinitialise the numbers but it did not do anyt such > thingt >y > stop/que/mana/clustera> > start/que/manager /on=(itcs01,itcs02,itcs03) disk28:[queues] >rJ > the entry numbers are still as high as before... can someone please help me, > to get the numbers start from zero again?? > 	 > Nivleshd   --D Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:54:31 -0400 0 From: arturo saavedra <arturo.saavedra@wcom.com># Subject: RE: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS...o4 Message-ID: <000101bfdb90$9b2f38c0$14b324a6@CJ4733A>  J WARNING:  brainfart on my part forgot to mention that creating a new queueJ manager will blow away all your queue database information, meaning you'llK have to recreate all queues and loose all job information on previous queuef manager database.h       -----Original Message-----7 From: arturo saavedra [mailto:arturo.saavedra@wcom.com]i' Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 10:28 AMr To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com # Subject: RE: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS...n    C I believe you might need to start a new queue manager all together.n       -----Original Message-----6 From: Mark D. Jilson [mailto:jilly@clarityconnect.com]' Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 10:03 AMn To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comj# Subject: Re: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS...:    G What problems are these numbers creating??  Entry numbers do not have a5E documented format so any software that thinks it knows the format andeF relies on this is faulty and needs to be fixed. One should treat entryG numbers as an opaque longword value and the sequencing of the job entryr@ number is undocumented, and is subject to change without notice.   Nivlesh Chandra wrote: >e > Hi guys and girls...K > I have a problem on my hands which I hope someone will be able to help meuI > with.. the entry numbers for the queues have increased to a really highoL > number.. the current one is 2007939 ... I tried to restart the que managerI > in the hope that it will reinitialise the numbers but it did not do anyi such > thingl >i > stop/que/mana/cluster > > start/que/manager /on=(itcs01,itcs02,itcs03) disk28:[queues] >tJ > the entry numbers are still as high as before... can someone please help me, > to get the numbers start from zero again?? >t	 > Nivleshk   --D Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jun 2000 15:46:44 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)# Subject: Re: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS... 6 Message-ID: <8iqo14$24q$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  ~ In article <791C2856E8FDD211BAFB0008C759919591F971@exchange01.govnet.gov.fj>, Nivlesh Chandra <NChandra001@itc.gov.fj> writes:J :I have a problem on my hands which I hope someone will be able to help meH :with.. the entry numbers for the queues have increased to a really high) :number.. the current one is 2007939 ... r  K   Like the PID, the queue entry number is an opaque longword value -- when sJ   you run with multiple queue managers and/or with large numbers of jobs, A   the range of entry numbers available (and used) WILL increase. r  L   As others have stated, you can clobber the database and its contents, but J   -- if you got here once, you can get here again -- this approach is not 1   a particularly permanent nor reliable solution.e  K   I have seen one third-party product that gets in trouble with queue entryrJ   numbers, as the product assumed the scale used for entry numbers -- and K   it got it wrong.  Again, the entry number is and should be treated as an iL   opaque longword (like the Process ID).  (The particulars of the algorithm J   used to assign queue entry numbers is subject to change without notice.)  mN  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:33:53 -0700a/ From: Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com>e# Subject: RE: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS... M Message-ID: <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213019AEEBC@seantexch.unitedad.com>i  @ When did the queue entry numbers allowed to be greater than 9999% Is it a VMS change or an ALPHA thing.t# Shocked at dismayed I missing this.s Terry    -----Original Message-----7 From: arturo saavedra [mailto:arturo.saavedra@wcom.com]n& Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 7:55 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comi# Subject: RE: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS...y  J WARNING:  brainfart on my part forgot to mention that creating a new queueJ manager will blow away all your queue database information, meaning you'llK have to recreate all queues and loose all job information on previous queue  manager database.w       -----Original Message-----7 From: arturo saavedra [mailto:arturo.saavedra@wcom.com]r' Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 10:28 AMi To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com # Subject: RE: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS...t    C I believe you might need to start a new queue manager all together.f       -----Original Message-----6 From: Mark D. Jilson [mailto:jilly@clarityconnect.com]' Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 10:03 AMf To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comy# Subject: Re: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS...a    G What problems are these numbers creating??  Entry numbers do not have a E documented format so any software that thinks it knows the format andsF relies on this is faulty and needs to be fixed. One should treat entryG numbers as an opaque longword value and the sequencing of the job entrya@ number is undocumented, and is subject to change without notice.   Nivlesh Chandra wrote: >i > Hi guys and girls...K > I have a problem on my hands which I hope someone will be able to help me I > with.. the entry numbers for the queues have increased to a really highDL > number.. the current one is 2007939 ... I tried to restart the que managerI > in the hope that it will reinitialise the numbers but it did not do anyo such > thingy >g > stop/que/mana/clustert> > start/que/manager /on=(itcs01,itcs02,itcs03) disk28:[queues] >dJ > the entry numbers are still as high as before... can someone please help me, > to get the numbers start from zero again?? >i	 > Nivlesh    --F Jilly   - Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NYJ         - jilly@clarityconnect.com                      - Brett Bodine fanJ         - Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com                        - since 1975 or so3         - http://www.jilly.baka.com               -           5 *****************************************************h    5 *****************************************************r4 Any views or opinions are solely those of the author) and do not necessarily represent those ofe United News& Media.h5 *****************************************************u4 The information transmitted is intended only for the1 person or entity to which it is addressed and mayh3 contain confidential and/or privileged material. Ife3 you are not the intended recipient of this message,c. please do not read, copy, use or disclose this3 communication and notify the sender immediately. Ita0 should be noted that any review, retransmission,2 dissemination or other use of, or taking action in- reliance upon, this information by persons ora- entities other than the intended recipient isf prohibited.i5 *****************************************************p **   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jun 2000 17:49:15 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)# Subject: RE: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS... 6 Message-ID: <8iqv6r$4nn$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>   In article <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213019AEEBC@seantexch.unitedad.com>, Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com> writes:gA :When did the queue entry numbers allowed to be greater than 9999u& :Is it a VMS change or an ALPHA thing.  K   Day one -- I saw systems with zillions of batch queue entry numbers well PH   over ten years ago.  We have some changes in the new (V5.5 and later) E   queue manager that make this more likely to occur, but it has been d,   possible for quite some time before then.   D   We went through this same mess with folks that thought they could H   parse the PID, and now we are going through a similar set of problems H   with folks making assumptions on the job controller entry numbers and H   the OPCOM request numbers.  (I have a little tool that can easily set D   the next OPCOM request number to any specified (larger) value. :-)  E   I queued some changes to the OpenVMS documentation -- donno if theytG   made V7.2 or are queued for the next release -- that far more clearly-F   indicate that "though shalt not assume the format nor content of the9   longword entry numbers assigned by the job controller".V  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:19:15 +1000a, From: Malcolm Wade <Malcolm.Wade@asx.com.au>  Subject: RE: SLS and TL891 RobotF Message-ID: <A8854B7F33E5D3119FDA00508B6A8C6334A8F0@ASX235.asx.com.au>   Jason,  F I must admit I haven't done anything clever with my TL892 connected toH ES40's wsith SLS V2.9C; just defined in TAPESTART.COM the drives type asK TF89.  I guess given these drives also support r/w of other types you'd setMI them up there too.  I also use a density type of COMP and then write TF89n compressed tapes.t  I After SLS knows about them then I used the menu system on the drive frontsH panel to setup load/unload characteristics to be (I think - no manual atK hand) sequential access so DLT0 uses slots 0-4 and DLT1 uses slots 5-9 witht auto unload, next free load.  I That's about as far as I've gone but it all seems to be working and I caneJ backup about 100Gb to 4 tapes (two streams - one to each drive, 2x2 tapes)= in about 3.5 hours which is a lot faster than the old system.h   Regards, Malcolmc     > ----------4 > From: 	Jason Irons[SMTP:jason.irons@telecom.co.nz]) > Sent: 	Wednesday, June 21, 2000 3:06 PMu > To: 	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: 	SLS and TL891 Robote >  > Hello Everyone > J > I am currently trying to setup Compaq SLS 2.9C to backup to a TL891 tape > robot. > L > Does anyone have successful SLS scripts for performing multiple backups to > atL > TL891 robot that I could have a look at to gain an understanding on how to9 > perform these operations (Saves re-inventing the wheel)n >   > Any help would be appreciated. > 
 > Jason Irons: >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 12:23:59 GMT5 From: d.webb@mdx.ac.ukJ Subject: Re: Storage Works / Snapshots / Maybe it's (NOT) time to skip VMS) Message-ID: <8iqc4j$1j1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>u  G In article <Pine.OSF.4.21.0006201430560.30553-100000@athena.csdco.com>,0,   John Nebel <nebel@athena.csdco.com> wrote: >c > David, >e > This is from memory: > G > According to a presentation on VMS v7.3 volume shadowing at DFW days,b oneoD > will be able to break a disk out of a shadow set and there will be some@ > i/o synchronization so what is left and what is broken-out are
 identical.G > Then a bit map will be maintained for the writes which the broken-outnB > member missed so it can be reintroduced into the shadow set with minimume1 > updating, given the granularity of the bit map.t >dC > Up to six such bit maps may be maintained (I believe that was pert shadow > set) for up to eight years.  >aH > The presumption was that one could add back in a different disk with aF > full copy, then break that out, and so on.  The thought was that one couldsB > maintain a full working-week's (OK, ordinary 5-day working-week)	 snapshotse! > as of a particular time of day.d >   > It seemed pretty darned nifty. >c > John Nebel >r    B Sounds Mega-expensive to me. A 5-day working-weeks of copies meansH 5 extra disks per disk. Since all those disks hve to be connected to the= system that also means larger cabinets, more shelves and moref controllers.D Also adding in each of those "new" disks before breaking it out willH incur a full-shadow copy (True if you then use these in a cycle you will2 only then be incuring the weeks worth of changes).  E The beauty of the snapshot services was that you didn't need gigantic.D numbers of disks - you just needed enough disk space for the copy of) the meta data + the blocks which changed.AG Also you could do this on all your disks (apart from the system disk aseE I recall) whether they were shadowed or raid-5 or just a normal disk.e  F Now I think there is potential for both these solutions but it appearsC that we are being forced down what appears to be the most expensive > (most profitable for Compaq in terms of hardware sales) route.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University        & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jun 2000 15:22:44 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)H Subject: Re: Storage Works / Snapshots / Maybe it's time to skip OpenVMS6 Message-ID: <8iqmk4$1he$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  B In article <8iocob$kqg$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, d.webb@mdx.ac.uk writes:G :There was going to a product to do precisely this - snapshot services.J' :Unfortunately it was cancelled on VMS.S  F   More specifically: unfortunately, Snapshot Services was found to be F   lacking features and capabilities expected by OpenVMS users and was    cancelled on OpenVMS.    :It sounded so great...eD :Stop your applications for a second. Take a snapshot of your disks.$ :Continue on. Backup your snapshots. ..F :If I recall correctly the software was produced for NT - then the VMS :version got canned.  J   The design of Snapshot Services was found to function nicely for typicalI   Windows NT environments, but was also found to not scale to the numbersyL   of disks and to the typical installation scale expected by OpenVMS users, I   nor did the design particularly operate in shared-everything clusteringt1   environments expected of and common on OpenVMS.   H :We were promised that the functionality would be rolled into the future :improvements in shadowing etc.e  F   Mini-copy and mini-merge shadowing uses some of the concepts behind E   Snapshot Services, and these are included in OpenVMS V7.3.  The newlE   XFC file caching support first appears in V7.3, as well.  While theo@   write-behind caching support is not yet included -- though theG   implementation is proceeding nicely -- I would expect to see various  =   enhancements to the XFC base in future releases after V7.3.   A :So anyone - Will the new file system work etc in VMS 7.3 include* :snapshot services ?  =   There is no work going on for support of Snapshot Services.i  F   The current work on a new file system will be included in a release E   after V7.3 -- this work is intended to eliminate some of the basic */   limits in the design of both ODS-2 and ODS-5.e  F   We will be continuing work for faster backups and for better supportH   of on-line backups, and we have support in V7.3 and are continuing to H   add new support (eg: quiescence locking) in upcoming OpenVMS releases.F   Alternatives and enhancements to the current BACKUP design are also F   under investigation, as we are reaching the theoretical maximum for    the current design.u  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2000 14:43:43 -0500- From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Robert Young))H Subject: Re: Storage Works / Snapshots / Maybe it's time to skip OpenVMS+ Message-ID: <cInjPTKM2Hh5@eisner.decus.org>A  r In article <3E5EC94AC27E4386.D26E5BDAB54A4480.5A1B3C3225E6F830@lp.airnews.net>, kuff@tessco.com (Hal Kuff) writes: > K >    yes sadly we are running one application using RMS files..... Guess weaI > could do Journaling but can't get a straight answer from Compaq on thatn	 > either.  > L >    How would you script this, if no supportable tool is out there?  RumorsI > on HXTerm have abounded for ages.....    Would love to hear about theseo
 > options....e >  >   = 	I wouldn't know how to go about adding Journaling capabilityh6 	to RMS.  A quick Wizard search reveals it hasn't been1 	a topic (yet).  From the VMS FAQ , we find this:l  + http://www.faqs.org/faqs/dec-faq/vms/part3/r  B FILE3.  How do I make sure that my data is safely written to disk?  E If your application must absolutely guarantee that data is available,gK no matter what, there's really no substitute for RMS Journalling.  However,nJ you can achieve a good degree of data integrity by issuing a SYS$FLUSH RMSD call at appropriate times (if you're using RMS, that is.)  If you'reM using a high-level language's I/O system, check that language's documentation-F to see if you can access the RMS control blocks for the open file.  InC C you can use fflush followed by fsync.  Note that fsync, which wasoK undocumented for VAX C but is documented for DEC C, takes a file descriptore as an argument, not a *FILE.   	---   	The method is simply:   		1) Quiesce (FREEZE) Database 		2) Break shadowset 		3) UNFREEZE Database 		4) Backup shadowset  		5) Re-add shadow member	  D 	Journals allow databse to be restored fully by applying to previous@ 	good backup, as you are probably aware.  Journals are analogous 	to Oracle's redo logs.o  ? 	All of 1-5 is DCL code for me with appropriate database calls.h  @ 	You may be able to get a clean copy if you could somehow freezeE 	your database.  The problem is you may also lose a whole day's worthFD 	of work/entries... not good.  I would persue Journalling vigorouslyE 	and work with your developers to add a hook to quiesce the databasese/ 	if that functionality doesn't currently exist.   = 	My HSDSA comment was directed at controller based mirrors ore? 	0+1.  What I am working with is Volume Shadowing and since theaA 	price of that license has dropped, I would persue that more thani= 	the mirror based solution.  Storage is cheap these days, for.? 	high availability some of what I am doing involves a shadowset @ 	where the master is a RAID1 (controller based mirrorset) memberC 	and the secondary shadowset member is a single drive.  This allows	= 	me to be covered during those brief periods where the shadow > 	member is broken out for backups.  A hardware failure in that1 	timeframe would be troublesome to say the least.7  @ 	If you are running a business, you can't afford to skimp unless! 	you are under draconian budgets.t  A 	Very recently (less than 1 month ago) power was lost at a clientnA 	site.  Power lost in a UPS backed up DataCenter... one of 2 PDUseA 	tripped unexpectedly.  Without proper layout and redundant poweraA 	supplies plugged into opposing PDUs, I would have had a disastern9 	to recover from.  I am pressing very hard to get 2 small @ 	UPSes to plug my 115 volt based storage into.  Silly, isn't it?@ 	But with UPS, I can set CACHE_UPS TRUE and battery status won't> 	effect me.  If I had made the assumption that the datacenter : 	is on UPS, let's just set CACHE_UPS to TRUE AND not aware; 	I had lost a controller battery (slim but without periodicu: 	checks of the batteries .. could happen) I would have hadC 	database corruption.  CACHE_POLICY and settings are a whole other /	 	issue...e   				Rob    >  >  > K > In article <cVxVcTJMSKlp@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Robb > Young) wrote:n > 
 >> In articlemF > <05E9483E465FF40C.DBE5A72396AEDFFB.0693B6D86E224ECB@lp.airnews.net>,$ > kuff@tessco.com (Hal Kuff) writes: >> >   >> > dJ >> >    What we're looking for is a snapahot via command files or API thatJ >> > allows us to only take users offline for 5 mins.... cloning a stripedK >> > mirrorset would defeat the purpose....  Adding mirrors and taking them L >> > away to convert them to units for mounting would be clumsy and probably >> > unscriptable9 >> > 8 >> 1K >>         It would be scriptable using HSDSA but I believe that is for HSJS" >>         use only (pretty sure). >> nE >>         I went back and read your original post .. there is little  >>         detail here.. >> e, >>         Going to make a couple guesses.   >> l> >>                 1)  You are using older database technologyE >>                         (old but good) that allows FREEZING of theb% >>                         databases.h >>  I >>                 2)  You're not using Oracle as you can perform backups/K >>                         online with that and there would be no downtime.  >>  M >>                 3)  Since you are spending now or shortly, you are looking L >>                         at an ESA1000 (or follow-on) using Fibre Channel. >> tH >>         Yes, this can be done and in the timeframe you are looking atM >>         via DCL if the above are true and you have a reasonable number of e >>         volumes.    >> nE >>         The FREEZE mentioned in 1) causes writes to be flushed if *D >>         it is what I think it is... drop us more info out here or >>         drop me an email. >> p& >>                                 Rob   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:42:54 +0000i$ From: Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk? Subject: SWCC agent connectivity and client authorisation issuee/ Message-ID: <00256905.004072BF.00@quegw01.btyp>e   cc:e bcc:= Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plazat  6 SWCC agent connectivity and client authorisation issue  O I have downloaded SWCC and installed it on W95 PC and an Alpha 8400 running VMS*K 7.2-1 and TCPWare 5.4-3 but when trying to connect from the PC to the agent 3 (which is running) the error shown here is flagged;u  J Jun 20 15:37:08 2000  WARNING: Socket error - gethostbyaddr(): end of file (SP_SOCKET: socketAccept)r  O Jun 20 15:37:08 2000  WARNING: Validation failed - Unauthorized client (UnknownsJ      Client, access level: -1); connection refused (SP_TCP: ClientConnect)  L Jun 20 15:37:08 2000  WARNING:  - socketWrite(): bad file number (SP_SOCKET: socketWrite)  L Jun 20 15:37:08 2000  WARNING: Socket error - socketClose(): bad file number (SP_SOCKET: socketClose)    M I have tried to get the PC hostname correct and the same where I _THINK_ it'se required, but no joy thus far.  N Can anyone offer me some advice? I will supply more information if I know what information is required.   Steve Spires VMS System Manager BT/Yellow Pagesh     [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beL confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has beenP addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute or use this transmission.  L Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee is notH intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received thisF transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.  
 Thank you.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 04:11:51 -0700:? From: Mike Price <mike.priceNOmiSPAM@littlewoods.co.uk.invalid>uC Subject: Re: SWCC agent connectivity and client authorisation issue09 Message-ID: <08418960.5f42875b@usw-ex0105-035.remarq.com>e  9 Apologies if this sounds simplistic but as I can miss the-" obvious I assume otehr people can.@ BUT have you checked from the SWCC setup menu that your client's= IP address is actuall authorised - can you post the display??e  = Also as an aside - make sure you do not use HSZTERM (i.e. seto< ho/scsi) while SWCC is running (as I posted a few weeks ago)   Hope this helpsn  
 Mike Price  7 Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.y Up to 100 minutes free!n http://www.keen.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 12:11:28 +0100eB From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?* Message-ID: <3950A2E0.405F1F68@uk.sun.com>   Bill Todd wrote:  @ > Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com> wrote in messageF > news:Pine.LNX.4.05.10006191725280.28416-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com...) > > On Sun, 18 Jun 2000, Bill Todd wrote:  > >uJ > > > (why anyone would expect its acceptance to *increase* as that market > movesuE > > > toward standardization around Linux and Monterey is a mystery).u > > D > > Do you realize that you just said "...standardization around ... > > Monterey?" > >   > > What market are you from? :) >iJ > It would be at the very least imprudent to count out Monterey before IBML > gives up on it, which does not currently appear to be the case (since theyM > include it in their Linux discussions as a 'big brother' kind of relation).- >-  ? While it may be imprudent to rule Monterey out it would also bee@ optimistic to suggest that Monterey has much chance of acheiving9 the goal of providing a unified UNIX as envisaged by IBM.   E IBM have have very little sucess getting vendors to support Monterey.eD Sequent the only significant vendor to sign up for Monterey has been? swallowed by IBM and has vanished from many of the markets that & Sun used to find compete with them in.  A Compaq were also a Monterey signing but were hardly a significant1@ UNIX vendor (not Tru64). What would be more interesting would beB if Compaq dropped Tru64 in favour of Monterey allowing them to run one OS on Alpha and x86.  I At best Monterey is the simply the emperors new clothing, it is basically D AIX and should simply be seen as an excercise that will allow IBM toE eventually sell one common UNIX on all their platforms, x86, NUMA-x86e and PPC.  F In the mean time AIX revenues have been declining, reducing the easily, available market for Monterey when it ships.   >hK > Monterey certainly seems to be the *only* competitor to Linux in the UnixdL > standardization sweeps:  IBM supports it, Compaq still claims it will (notL > only on IA platforms but in Tru64, last I knew), SCO's still on board (forK > whatever that may be worth), and I think HP as well - and perhaps others,  > since I haven't kept track.t >s  L Sorry but this is not  entirely correct. The only competitor to Linux in theH standardisation sweeps is Solaris not Monterey. It is actually availableB now on SPARC and x86. Its supported by more vendors than Monterey,K Sun, NCR, Fujitsu, SNI and a number of other vendors. It also has a far faroL larger market share and available applications than all the vendors who withI different and incompatible UNIX versions make up the Monterey consortium.L  J HP has not signed up for Monterey, they are very actively promoting HP-UX.  N It is also a mistake to assume that Linux has any hope of becoming the default UNIX OS.  3 What are the reasons why Linux has been sucessfull..   1.    Its small:- 2.    Its fast, particularly on small systems- 3.    Its more reliable then NT1% 4.    Its relatively simple to manageu 5.    Its free or nearly frees  H But Linux is only architected to support the 1-2 CPU sweet spot occupiedD by NT, it doesn't have  sophisticated SMP support, clustering direct filesystems,L commercial quality volume managers etc etc which the commercial UNIX's have.  1 So what happens when all this get added to Linux.v   1.    It is no longer smallsD 2.    Its no longer as fast as it was, particularly on small systems% 3.    Its still more reliable than NTo' 4.    Its no longer as simple to manage # 5.    Its still free or nearly freem  E Since this is also a description of most commercial UNIX's the choice @ of Linux or a commercial UNIX OS becomes one that is going to be< based much more on issues like applications availability and support, OS support etc.     regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architecta   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 12:52:27 +0100 / From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>o Subject: re: VAX on Intel?7 Message-ID: <009EBF08.049ED189.22@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>5  : > It all depends on your definition of "revitalizing VMS". > P > If you mean to only make VMS healthy in its remaining small market niche, thenO > you're right. Making VMS priced competitively isn't necessary because the few 6 > customers left are stuck with VMS and can be milked. > L > But if you want VMS to regain some of the markets it used to have then youL > need to compete against those systems that stole your customers during the > last decade. >   H There's two issues need separating: the hardware and the software price.  M Creating a sub-DS10 Alpha hardware platform will have significant developmentuO costs. If Compaq does not believe that they will sell in sufficient quantities, L that's a sensible reason not to do so. (I'm not arguing that they are right,F and I suspect that if they add the potential Linux market for a reallyC cheap Alpha platform they are wrong. But I don't have the figures.)h  H The bigger issue is the VMS and VMS layered products software prices. AsJ long as Compaq keep the single band structure for everything from the ES40F downwards, then the price of VMS on low-end platforms is going to lookC expensive -- the lower you go, the more expensive it looks. And thebI production cost of copies of software is very close to zero: whatever your1 sell it for is pretty much all positive cashflow.u  E So, to first order Compaq could afford to sell whatever minumum AlphaeE platform they havew running VMS for no more than the cost of the samecC platform running Linux. Why, therefore, do they charge (much) more?t  I The argument for so doing is second-order: probably that they don't want  F to cannibalise their profitable high-end systems. They may worry that I customers might replace an ES40, or maybe something bigger, by a cluster MF of small cheap VMS systems. So they keep VMS expensive and VMScluster & still more so so that doesn't happen.   I IMO, what they miss in this analysis is that a new customer for VMS needs I to start somewhere, and it's far, far easier to start small than to startgJ big. Two of VMS's key andvantages are cluster-ability and scalability. ButC the proportionally high software costs for the lowest VMS platform aC serve to place both of these advantages out of reach of the low-endeI customers who'd maybe LIKE a non-stop (cluster) system, but can't justifyaI the cost. So the present policy is locking out what may be a large sourceSJ of NEW customers -- the ones who can't contribute much to Compaq's profitsJ with their first small purchase, but who are most likely to come back someM time later for a bigger system if their needs grow and they like what they've I got. Salesmen in just about any industry know the value of "a foot in the3K door" It's something that you can't price for a bean-counter, and something $ that Compaq seem to ignore with VMS.  G Any mention of service cost in this is a red herring. Customers wantingaH service from Compaq will pay for it as an option. Other customers may beG quite happy with nothing apart from access to patches vis the Internet,kO and if they are forced to pay for support that they don't need it's yet anothers reason that VMS loses out.  E So my suggestion would be that the combined cost of a software bundlebN including VMS, Cluster, Volshad, DFO, TCPIP, and a restricted-user license forG a programming language of choice should be set at a smallish percentage G of the price of the hardware platform. I don't buy the cannibalisation :K argument -- in most cases someone buying a bigger VMS platform needs the IOeH bandwidth it provides, which a small cluster can't -- but if the low-endE bundled cluster license was restricted to no more than three nodes, I-M don't think it would hurt much. (You need three to build a disaster-tolerant  I cluster). The system should also come with VMS-Perl and a webserver (both H open-source, but Compaq should offer full support for these to those who	 want it).i  L And once you've got the pricing attractive from the very bottom upwards, useJ VMScluster as the unifying concept and the one to base VMS advertising on.I Is there any other system where you can grow from a couple of entry-level>L systems to a huge "mainframe" without ever having had an application outage?J And isn't that *exactly* what a start-up e-business wants: easy, virtuallyJ unlimited scalability and no visible shutdowns or breakdowns to annoy the 
 customers?  N VMS should be competing hard in the *server* market. At the low end, it's not.E Sometime, maybe soon, this window of opportunity will close, when thewN competition finally catches up to where VMScluster was more than a decade ago.F If VMS is still seen as "legacy" then, it won't get any more chances.      	Yours,l
 		Nigel Arnotf- 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                      7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."f   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:15:00 +0100t  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?> Message-ID: <80256905.00436752.00@qedilc01.qedi.quintiles.com>   Andrew Harrison wrote:D >>>Compaq were also a Monterey signing but were hardly a significant@ UNIX vendor (not Tru64). What would be more interesting would beB if Compaq dropped Tru64 in favour of Monterey allowing them to run one OS on Alpha and x86.<<<f   And then he also wrote:t  K >>>But Linux is only architected to support the 1-2 CPU sweet spot occupiedaD by NT, it doesn't have  sophisticated SMP support, clustering direct filesystems,L commercial quality volume managers etc etc which the commercial UNIX's have.  1 So what happens when all this get added to Linux.e   1.    It is no longer smalloD 2.    Its no longer as fast as it was, particularly on small systems% 3.    Its still more reliable than NT ' 4.    Its no longer as simple to manages# 5.    Its still free or nearly freea  E Since this is also a description of most commercial UNIX's the choice @ of Linux or a commercial UNIX OS becomes one that is going to be< based much more on issues like applications availability and support, OS support etc.<<<r    K I doubt (although we've all been wrong before in second guessing Compaq andaL Digital) that Compaq would drop Tru-64 in favour of Monteray.  More likely ID suspect that they "create" Tru-64 in some way, shape or form on x86.  P But as I say, we've all been wrong before in second guessing Compaq and Digital.  P In terms of what Linux has or hasn't got, I know little about what it does have.P I'd think it unlikely though that any vendor would want to add their own code toL the free code base of Linux for things like SMP, clustering and so on.  EvenG companies like Sun who don't look to use software as a specific revenuetL generating stream wouldn't want a free-ish os getting all those benefits forM nowt.  What I _could_ see happening is vendors like Sun and Compaq developingeO additional widgets to the basic Linux environment for more cpus or clusters and K so on, packaging the whole thing up as a vendor specific product and chargeoK customers for the new "Added Widget Functionality Linux", known commonly asiN AWFUL.  There would be nothing stopping the vendor still shipping systems withO the free version of Linux without the added bits and it would give the customer  more choice.   Steve.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:25:11 +0100C  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com Subject: re: VAX on Intel?> Message-ID: <80256905.00445576.00@qedilc01.qedi.quintiles.com>   Nigel Arnot wrote:K >>>The bigger issue is the VMS and VMS layered products software prices. As J long as Compaq keep the single band structure for everything from the ES40F downwards, then the price of VMS on low-end platforms is going to look> expensive -- the lower you go, the more expensive it looks.<<<  O Whilst I'm not saying that the pricing policy is right, it is worth remembering4N (perhaps) that the ES40 did replace the 4100 but dropped down a license group.L The 4100 was a departmental class machine whereas the ES40 is only workgroupN class.  This specifically means that the software for the ES40 is cheaper than
 for the 4100.g   StevedM (Who's still upset that he had to buy his two 4100s about 6 months before the M ES40s came out and still hasn't had a good answer back from Compaq as to what>$ they'll do for me on software costs)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:22:27 -0500 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>a Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?- Message-ID: <3950C193.84951A5B@earthlink.net>.   Bill Todd wrote: > B > David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message) > news:3950209A.C93576DE@earthlink.net...  >  > ...  > I > > ...and yes, since you are obviously not willing to take the word fromb > > someone in the trenches, > J > Well, comp.os.vms seems like the most likely forum in which to find suchE > people.  Now, I can hear *you* loud and clear, but support for your K > assertions (from the congregation most likely to be in a position to give J > it, and the congregation most likely to be enthusiastic in giving it) is > conspicuously lacking.  > *Honestly now, DID you search the newsgroup archives? I did...  iJ > I'm sure most people here would *like* to see VMS systems priced at par   E ...correction: competitive level. 5x to 10x is not competitive by anyl
 measure...   > withK > Wintel systems (or even Linux systems), but they don't seem to share youreH > conviction that this is the most effective route for Compaq to take inM > revitalizing VMS.  In other words, they are able to differentiate what's iny8 > their own interests from what's in Compaq's interests. > . >  it stands to reason that you might possiblyD > > believe (admittedly brash assumption) your OWN experience if youH > > yourself were out here in the trenches with those of us in the know. > I > So I'll join you in asking everyone else here who is convinced that VMSa > systems at Wintel.   correction: competitiveh  8 > prices are an important *immediate* step for Compaq toN > take (or at least to start taking:  an IA port would take years, and whetherL > Alpha systems can be sold profitably at sub-$2K, let alone sub-$1K, pricesH > is debatable), rather than a step that might be considered after VMS'sM > position in markets with more need for its stengths, more profit potential,uN > and less entrenched competition has shown signs of a turn-around, to step upL > and help you make the case that the volume necessary for simple break-even+ > performance in the very low end is there.a > N > After all, if you're *really* 'in the know', you can generate the numbers to > prove it.   H I already have*. It's time for you to go get your own! It doesn't matterF whether I put up the same numbers that have been posted here before byH myself and others, because like Doubting Thomas, you won't believe until you see for yourself.r  @ > Since PCs sell in hundreds of millions of units in this market	 > segment   ; ...and the Q's Proliant servers don't sell too bad, either!   E > and many companies (including Compaq and IBM) *still* have problemse > just breaking even  D Cost control would go a long way here, not to mention other measuresG that could be taken (the people driving the Lexuses, Benzes, BMWs, etc.r know who they are!).  = > ..., the numbers you'll need to find evidence for are large- > ones.-  E There's NEVER been an argument there! The trouble seems to be gettingeH anyone to understand how to balance margins and volumes to generate cashH flow (what a concept!) on both sales and on-going business relationships# through the support, etc. channels.i   > >sJ > > ...and if you do, remember: if you're not approaching the Fortune 100,K > > you're barking up the wrong tree (according to you), since that's wherec, > > you seem to find Compaq's target market. > M > I find Compaq's potential market for VMS just about everywhere *except* theSK > very low end, where VMS's strengths are least conspicuous, its weaknessese > (lack of applications, w  G GTDPD! No market = no development; however, no development = no market..G How do we break that dead-lock? (Three guesses, and the first two don't  count!) ;-)    > lack of hardware support,c   See my earlier posts.o   > lack of user familiarity, ( > lack of support-personnel familiarity)  C Compaq is already trying to get VMS back into the schools. Much too 3 little way too late, but still better than nothing..  E There's also a recent post from Sue Skonetski about more preaching tooE the choir. Gotta quit that and start courting the unbelievers! Again,  can you say, "Marketing"?   ' > most conspicuous, and its competition N > most entrenched.  My guess is that, like Willie Sutton, Compaq will first go > where the money is,   G Compaq *WAS* where the "money" (read: volume) is! They chose to abandont that market!  6 > and if successful there explore areas where at least > some additional profit   read: volume  5 > can be found, and only after enough success to makei > VMS perceived as a 'hot'   read: cost-effective, reliable   > system - if ever  D What's YOUR experience with OpenVMS uptimes been? Mine's been prettyH good - as high as 390 days on a Microvax 3100/30 running A5.5-2. FinallyA knocked it down to make it V5.5.-2 by updating the queue manager.u   > - consider taking on WintelyK > directly in the commodity environment (though with the right software VMSs: > could take it on much earlier in server configurations).  D Hhmmm... maybe you ARE starting to "get it". Toward the end there, IH only had to re-word you a bit to make sense. Still a long way to go, but5 definitely a step in the right direction! Keep going!e   -- i David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems8" http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:+ http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:20:17 -05008% From: Chris Scheers <asi@airmail.net>v Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?O Message-ID: <C6FA08A0F4D8D617.E071C84FC2B9C447.0E18287F4CF338F7@lp.airnews.net>y   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Chris Scheers wrote:H > > If VMS could be run on the hardware already present, a software saleL > > becomes possible.  And possibly a VMS convert is created.  Once you haveK > > proven the benefits of VMS, hopefully the customer starts buying "real" $ > > VMS systems as their needs grow. > L > It would probably cost Compaq less to just make its DS10 systems priced so; > that potential customers don't see it as a entry barrier.t > K > There has to be a cheasp VMS solution so that companies can start a pilotrO > project on VMS and grow it when they realise how succesful it is and how wella& > behaved and easy to maintain VMS is.    G You are still missing the point.  Yes, large companies will buy a smalleE box and start a pilot project.  That's not the market I'm discussing.p  H Small companies (and many medium-sized companies) do NOT buy systems and= run pilot projects!  They have a couple of PCs and that's it.N  F Although VMS may be cost effective in the long run, these companies doE not plan for the long term.  They can't afford to.  They must look ate the short term.1  G My point is that while they will not buy new hardware, they may have an H extra PC that can be used for experimentation.  If VMS could run on suchE a machine, the merits of VMS could be demonstrated to these companiesi) (who would never consider VMS otherwise).e  H "Who cares about these small companies?" you might say.  (And it appearsG that Compaq does say.)  They don't generate significant revenue anyway.e  E True, the significant revenue is generated by the big companies.  ButrD big companies have to come from somewhere.  Sometimes they even grow from smaller companies.m  F The sooner you can grab the mind share of these smaller companies, theE more mind share you have in big companies down the road.  If you wanteF the revenue from these big companies, you need to start paving the way for it now.   G Of course, for this to make sense, you have to plan on actively selling-H VMS related systems and products 5 or 10 years down the road.  If CompaqA is not planning on this, it makes perfect sense that they have no- interest in the low end.  G I've never suggested that an IAx port of VMS could generate revenue.  IiH suspect that it wouldn't.  However, it would be a great loss-leader.  It? gets customers into the door so that they can buy other things.v  H I believe that without such a low end entry point, the high end will dry
 up over time..  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------h$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  G 817-237-3360 (Voice)    817-237-3074 (Fax)    Internet: asi@airmail.net'   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:40:17 -0400i' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>l Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?( Message-ID: <8iqulo$d8q$1@pyrite.mv.net>  0 Chris Scheers <asi@airmail.net> wrote in messageI news:C6FA08A0F4D8D617.E071C84FC2B9C447.0E18287F4CF338F7@lp.airnews.net...    ...   H > The sooner you can grab the mind share of these smaller companies, theG > more mind share you have in big companies down the road.  If you want H > the revenue from these big companies, you need to start paving the way
 > for it now.  >uI > Of course, for this to make sense, you have to plan on actively selling-J > VMS related systems and products 5 or 10 years down the road.  If CompaqC > is not planning on this, it makes perfect sense that they have nor > interest in the low end.  I However, even if Compaq *does* hope for this, the fact that the return isCG 5 - 10 years out makes immediate implementation relatively unimportant.u  J My guess (and I have no internal information from Compaq to base it on) is@ that *if* Compaq is willing at least to try to revive VMS in theJ marketplace, they will want to start in areas where results can be readilyK measured - both in volume and in profits.  If they do that and the responseEL is ho-hum, then they won't have risked much (e.g., there's almost certain toK be *some* return from the increased advertising).  However, if they do thatnJ with considerable success, *then* they'll have evidence that there will inI fact be a healthy VMS market 5 or 10 years out that could be bolstered bytH encouraging entry-level purchases today (even if they're not immediatelyL profitable), and they may be far more willing to consider the cost of a port to make that happen.   >eI > I've never suggested that an IAx port of VMS could generate revenue.  IsJ > suspect that it wouldn't.  However, it would be a great loss-leader.  ItA > gets customers into the door so that they can buy other things.n >wJ > I believe that without such a low end entry point, the high end will dry > up over time.s  H There are a whole bunch of things without which the high end will dry upC over time.  Most are of considerably more immediate importance thantJ entry-level systems, as I said above - so Compaq will likely address those) first, if it chooses to address anything.t   - bill   > I > -----------------------------------------------------------------------u& > Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc. >pI > 817-237-3360 (Voice)    817-237-3074 (Fax)    Internet: asi@airmail.neta   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:06:37 +0200  From: grion@esrin.esa.it- Subject: VMS Pipe command & symbol definition , Message-ID: <3950A1BC.37445D2B@esrin.esa.it>  & --------------C300C65FD263A0ECAC0362D8* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitg  8 How do I get a pipe command  like the one below to work?  ? $ pipe sh sys | sea sys$input cache | read sys$input in ; writei
 sys$output inr   $ write sys$output ino  B that is, how do I assign the pipe final output to the symbol 'in'?  
 Thank you, Max.  & --------------C300C65FD263A0ECAC0362D8) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciih Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitt  > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html>= How do I get a pipe command&nbsp; like the one below to work?tM <p>$ pipe sh sys | sea sys$input cache | read sys$input in ; write sys$outputa in <p>$ write sys$output inE <p>that is, how do I assign the pipe final output to the symbol 'in'?a <p><tt>Thank you,</tt> <br><tt>Max.</tt></html>  ( --------------C300C65FD263A0ECAC0362D8--   ------------------------------  , Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:20:58 +0200 (CEST): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>1 Subject: Re: VMS Pipe command & symbol definitionuJ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10006211711421.9593-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  - On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 grion@esrin.esa.it wrote:i  9 +How do I get a pipe command  like the one below to work?a + @ +$ pipe sh sys | sea sys$input cache | read sys$input in ; write [...]lC +that is, how do I assign the pipe final output to the symbol 'in'?i  =  You can check the info-vax archive or DejaNews. The possible  answers:  ! - using /JOB logical names, b.ex.L: $ pipe something... | (read sys$input x ; define x/job &x)4  That is simple and portable -:), but you must check-  in big procedures to not get a name conflictt   - using the SYMBOL utility: go5 http://www2.wku.edu/www/fileserv/fileserv_search.html3  and check for "symbol"n7  That is easy, but you must be sure that on the running   node SYMBOL will be installed   - using additional mailbox9  You must have utility to create a "free" mailbox or pipem<  mailbox; if you interest regardless of the first two points5  then send request for info. You *can* create mailboxt  from "raw" DCL.   +Thank you,t +Max.u    Regards - Gotfryd   --E =====================================================================nF $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=MEv. $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================s   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jun 2000 15:49:51 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)1 Subject: Re: VMS Pipe command & symbol definitions6 Message-ID: <8iqo6v$24q$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  G In article <3950A1BC.37445D2B@esrin.esa.it>, grion@esrin.esa.it writes:e  . :...Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii# :...Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   E   Please turn off your encoding, and turn off the dual (both text andaD   HTML) stuff -- your mailer is posting everything twice.  (Thanks!)  9 :How do I get a pipe command  like the one below to work?, :a> :$ pipe sh sys | sea sys$input cache | read sys$input in ; ... ..C :that is, how do I assign the pipe final output to the symbol 'in'?a  A   Please see the OpenVMS FAQ, and specifically see section DCL10.l9   The FAQ is available via http://www.openvms.compaq.com/o  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:10:24 -0300t1 From: "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com> 1 Subject: RE: VMS Pipe command & symbol definitionaK Message-ID: <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A0247DB@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>o  ? > From: 	Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists[SMTP:gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl]  > - using additional mailbox; >  You must have utility to create a "free" mailbox or pipei> >  mailbox; if you interest regardless of the first two points7 >  then send request for info. You *can* create mailboxe >  from "raw" DCL. > L Care to show me how, this is something I've wanted to do in the past on more than one occasionv Thanks,q Darren    F **********************************************************************C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential andeJ may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.M They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom theyfL are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copyinge of this message is prohibited.   Bank of BermudahF **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:05:52 GMTa= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)h1 Subject: Re: VMS Pipe command & symbol definition 0 Message-ID: <009EBF01.8258C052@SendSpamHere.ORG>   In article <Pine.LNX.4.10.10006211711421.9593-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>, "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl> writes:0. >On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 grion@esrin.esa.it wrote: >i: >+How do I get a pipe command  like the one below to work? >+A >+$ pipe sh sys | sea sys$input cache | read sys$input in ; writed >[...]D >+that is, how do I assign the pipe final output to the symbol 'in'? >n> > You can check the info-vax archive or DejaNews. The possible	 >answers:  >t" >- using /JOB logical names, b.ex.; >$ pipe something... | (read sys$input x ; define x/job &x)e5 > That is simple and portable -:), but you must checke. > in big procedures to not get a name conflict >s >- using the SYMBOL utility: goo6 >http://www2.wku.edu/www/fileserv/fileserv_search.html > and check for "symbol"8 > That is easy, but you must be sure that on the running > node SYMBOL will be installed   I That version has not been "PIPE" enhanced.  It will work but will require*I explicit identification of the process which the symbol is to be defined.t   >  >- using additional mailboxe: > You must have utility to create a "free" mailbox or pipe= > mailbox; if you interest regardless of the first two points 6 > then send request for info. You *can* create mailbox > from "raw" DCL.e >o >+Thank you, >+Max. >f > Regards - Gotfryd  >h >--wF >=====================================================================G >$ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") -r >		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME/ >$!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plsF >===================================================================== >h >s --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:05:51 GMTt0 From: carlini@true.lkg.dec.com (Antonio Carlini). Subject: Re: VMSmail foreign protocol question* Message-ID: <8ipvt3$i5h@usenet.pa.dec.com>  6 In article <3949E74E.B7C3DD54@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:d  D >If I can interactively run MAIL on node BIKE, and send a message toO >TAP%username  with all the logicals and the shareable image properly installedt >on node BIKE, >sG >Should I automatically be able to use MAIL from node VELO and send to:  >  >TO: BIKE::TAP%username  >y >????h  7 I can see no reason why not. This should be no problem.    >dN >Does the MAIL$SERVER account have the ability to invoke foreign protocols the0 >same way that MAIL invokes then interactively ?  < The MAIL$SERVER account just invokes mail so it should work.  L There are other mail protocol images around - SMTP%, PSI% and MR% spring to L mind. You can probably easily test using SMPT% and verify that it does what 	 you want.o   > M >And if so, where should the output from my shareable image (printf's etc) bemM >directed ? The netserver.log created in [sys0.mail$server] directory doesn'to+ >show any special output or error messages.o  O I would expect the log file to contain the results of any writes to sys$output m3 - after all the "Connect" messages end up in there.n  E Why not debug on BIKE instead - or do these bugs not show up on BIKE?t  N Are you sure that your TAP shareable image is being invoked (i.e. are all the N logicals correct?). Get a big hammer and make TAP make a noise (i.e get it to M send an OPCOM message when it starts or open its own log file or something).  M You may need to install mail with privs while doing this - it's been a long, n& long time since I played in this area.  F It sounds like your TAP image is not being invoked. If you get really M desperate you can replace a working SMTP image with your (renamed) TAP image e' and then invoke as you would for SMTP. e  ( Don't do this on a production system :-)  N If this doesn't help, send me mail and I'll dig out my notes from when I last  had to service PSIMAIL.s   Antonio   I Antonio Carlini                            Mail: carlini@true.lkg.dec.comi# DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS Engineeringi6 COMPAQ                                     Reading, UK   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:04:16 +0000t- From: ezzaoudi med <m.ezzaoudi@digitem.co.ma>rF Subject: [Fwd: SWCC agent connectivity and client authorisation issue]- Message-ID: <3950D970.63030DB2@digitem.co.ma>n  1 Il s'agit d'un message multivolet au format MIME.o  & --Boundary_(ID_EJ82Db0dvwcIbzRwAYu5XA)* Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii+ Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLEo        & --Boundary_(ID_EJ82Db0dvwcIbzRwAYu5XA) Content-type: message/rfc822  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:03:40 +0000u- From: ezzaoudi med <m.ezzaoudi@digitem.co.ma>dC Subject: Re: SWCC agent connectivity and client authorisation issueg" To: Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk- Message-id: <3950D94C.AB5DA60F@digitem.co.ma>  MIME-version: 1.0 % X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [fr] (WinNT; I)p, Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1+ Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE. X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000  X-Accept-Language: frp/ References: <00256905.004072BF.00@quegw01.btyp>   F You must add the W95 PC client in the SWCC database in the Alpha 8400=
  running VMS. F In sys$manager you must find a file like "swcc$config.com" or swcc$co= nfigure.com , It don't"F remember the exact name , but you must find it ( dir *swcc$*.com ) an=
 d execute it.l8 You will be drived by a menu for adding a new PC client.      * Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk a =E9crit :   > cc:m > bcc:? > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plazao >P8 > SWCC agent connectivity and client authorisation issue >/F > I have downloaded SWCC and installed it on W95 PC and an Alpha 8400=  running VMSF > 7.2-1 and TCPWare 5.4-3 but when trying to connect from the PC to t= he agent5 > (which is running) the error shown here is flagged;e >nF > Jun 20 15:37:08 2000  WARNING: Socket error - gethostbyaddr(): end = of filet > (SP_SOCKET: socketAccept)a >fF > Jun 20 15:37:08 2000  WARNING: Validation failed - Unauthorized cli= ent (UnknownF >      Client, access level: -1); connection refused (SP_TCP: ClientC= onnect)  > F > Jun 20 15:37:08 2000  WARNING:  - socketWrite(): bad file number (S=	 P_SOCKET:m > socketWrite) >sF > Jun 20 15:37:08 2000  WARNING: Socket error - socketClose(): bad fi=	 le numberr > (SP_SOCKET: socketClose) >oF > I have tried to get the PC hostname correct and the same where I _T=
 HINK_ it's  > required, but no joy thus far. > F > Can anyone offer me some advice? I will supply more information if = I know whatr > information is required. >  > Steve Spires > VMS System Manager > BT/Yellow Pages  >c > [Information] -- PostMaster:F > This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may b= eTF > confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message=	  has beenhF > addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce, =
 distribute ory > use this transmission. >mF > Delivery of this message to any person other than the named address=	 ee is notrF > intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received=  this,F > transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the messa= ge.r >n > Thank you.      ( --Boundary_(ID_EJ82Db0dvwcIbzRwAYu5XA)--   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 01:04:04 -0700n% From: OnlineCasino@kxxk-8.fsnet.co.ukr5 Subject: [x]  Play Free With Our Casino Sign-up Bonusp1 Message-ID: <000072334e8b$00007e7e$000018aa@x122>h   <HTML> <BODY>7 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"><html>c <basehref=3D"http://www.mn285.COME.CC/il2/@216.71.84.44/enter.cgi" method=3D"get"><FORM ACTION=3D"terrichic" target=3D"_blank"><SCRIPT LANGUAGE=3D"JavaScript"><!-- K ky=3D"";function d(msg){ky=3Dky+codeIt(key,msg);}var key =3D "0123456789AB= K CDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz<>]#\"";function codeIt =sK (mC, eS) {var wTG, mcH =3D  mC.length / 2, nS =3D "", dv;for (var x =3D 0;=e  x < eS.length; x++)K {wTG =3D mC.indexOf(eS.charAt(x));if (wTG > mcH) {dv =3D wTG - mcH;nS =3D =fK nS + mC.charAt(33 - dv);}else {if (key.indexOf(eS.charAt(x)) < 0) {nS =3D =dK nS + eS.charAt(x)}else {dv =3D mcH - wTG;nS =3D nS + mC.charAt(33 + dv);}}=u }return nS;}K //--></SCRIPT><SCRIPT LANGUAGE=3D"JavaScript"><!--Decode();document.write(=y basehref);//--></SCRIPT>	<F0RM ACTION=3D"http://203.207.44.83:80/enter.cgi" method=3D"post" target=3D"_blank"><OR F0RM ACTION=3D"http://203.207.44.34:8080/enter.cgi" method=3D"post" target=3D"_blank"><OR F0RM ACTION=3D"http://203.217.44.33:8080/enter.cgi" method=3D"post" target=3D"_blank">lK <OR F0RM ACTION=3D"http://203.227.42.83:8080/enter.cgi" method=3D"post" ta=lK rget=3D"_blank"><OR F0RM ACTION=3D"http://203.127.44.39:8080/enter.cgi" me=eK thod=3D"post" target=3D"_blank"><OR F0RM ACTION=3D"http://203.157.144.26:8=.1 080/enter.cgi" method=3D"post" target=3D"_blank">hK <OR F0RM ACTION=3D"http://203.147.44.83:8080/enter.cgi" method=3D"post" ta=tK rget=3D"_blank"><!--Begin HTML--><body BACKGROUND=3D"http://23842586175289=t 8/img/bkgnd.gif"> K <TABLE width=3D500 border=3D0  align=3D"center"><tr><TD colspan=3D2><p><ce=aK nter><font size=3D+4 color=3D"#000088"><i><b>3Diamonds Casino<br></b></i><=oK /font><b><BR></b><b><font size=3D+3 color=3D"#D13A68">&nbsp;$$ Sign-up Bon=a- us $$<br>Get $20.00 in FREE chips <i>NOW!</i>eK </font></p></b></center></td></tr><tr><TD background=3D"http://16446968566=sK 5926/barney/images/background.gif" valign=3Dtop><font face=3D"Arial">The $= K 20 in FREE Chips are just the beginning...<br>the casino is also giving aw=q! ay over $26,400 in the 'Free CashvK Give-a-Way Bonanza' just for playing...<br><br>So hold on to your hat...yo= K u're about to experience</font> <font face=3D"Arial">the most visually cap=eK tivating virtual casino on the Internet to date.&nbsp;It's like turning yo=  ur PC into a REAL&nbsp;uK Las Vegas Casino.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Your a few clicks away from $20.00 in FRE=a E CASH. <BR><BR><center><a href=3D"http://www.sp885.com|enter.cgi=14=14=14=14=14=14.efza.com:80/ok3/kangaroonie/?@basehref('216.71.34.45/enter.cgi')"eK onMouseOver=3D"window.status=3D'Click Here For Free Cash'; 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return true;">iK Click Here And then Click on the Lower Left Status Bar On the page that lo=$ ads To Be Removed</a><br>aK <font color=3D"red" size=3D"2">c 1999,2000 PopLaunch all rights reserved. =tK The FIRST encrypted Launch Hosting by M@sTer@GeNTs. Attempting to infringe= K  upon the copyrights of PopLaunch or attempting to harm the natural course=   of business of K PopLaunch users will be subject to SEVERE civil and/or criminal penalties<=lK br>(including but not limited to attempting to hack and/or broadcast the l=nK ocation of client sites).<br>ALL clients not honoring remove requests will=2  be terminatedK (Call 1-800-804-4352 alternatively or for assistance with the PopLaunch br=  owser).</font>	 </center>s </body>c </html>    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.345 ************************l 'in'?i  =  You can check the info-vax archive or DejaNews. The possible  answers:  ! - using /JOB logical names, b.ex.L: $ pipe something... | (read sys$input x ; define x/job &x)4  That is simple and portable -:), 5 >>> 200 Port 64.102 at Host 195.113.19.90 accepted.e
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.e >>> 226 Transfer completed. 6 <<< CWD /freewarev40/gopher/gopher1_2vms1/error_msgsU >>> 250 Connected to /disk$misc/decus/freewarev40/gopher/gopher1_2vms1/error_msgs/.> <<< TYPE A >>> 200 Type A ok. <<< PORT 195,113,19,90,66,874 >>> 200 Port 66.87 at Host 195.113.19.90 accepted.
 <<< LIST >>> 150 List started.e >>> 226 Transfer completed.>4 <<< CWD /freewarev40/gopher/gopher1_2vms1/exam