1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 22 Jun 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 346       Contents:2 Re: Affordable Debate Summary (was: VAX on Intel?)2 Re: Affordable Debate Summary (was: VAX on Intel?)H Re: Alpha DEC 2000-300 (Jensen?) - Serial port as console -  (serialECU) Re: Amazon?  Re: Amazon?  RE: Amazon? 4 Re: Be extra careful when upgrading to TCPware 5.4-3  Re: Besides Pathworks for Mac...' Re: Cisco Has DECNet Ping - VMS Doesn't ' Re: Cisco Has DECNet Ping - VMS Doesn't , Clusterwide logical suggestion/documentation Common Alpha Executable & Re: Compaq paying for software ports ?& Re: Compaq paying for software ports ?& Re: Compaq paying for software ports ? DECNET-Plus, DTSS, NTP and UTC- Error In VMS SPD For AlphaServer 2100 5/375 ? % Re: Fast ethernet on micro-vax series $ Re: FIND,DFU and [?]F11$MOVEFILE.TMP FS: MV3400 (Auckland, NZ) - Re: How do I calculate CONNECT TIME from DCL? $ Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?)P MONTREAL AREA --computer surplus upto 80% off-- 200 SKIDS OF COMPUTERS TO LIQUIDA Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire) A RE: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire) A Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire) ) Re: OpenVMS UCX/FTP and Internet Explorer ) Re: OpenVMS UCX/FTP and Internet Explorer ) Re: OpenVMS UCX/FTP and Internet Explorer ) Re: OpenVMS UCX/FTP and Internet Explorer  Re: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS... RE: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS... Re: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS... Re: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS...< select: bad file number, also slaughter of DECwindows server Server for Novell NetWare  Re: SLS and TL891 Robot A Re: Storage Works / Snapshots / Maybe it's (NOT) time to skip VMS ? Re: Storage Works / Snapshots / Maybe it's time to skip OpenVMS # Re: Techwise report on availability + Re: transferring files to/from vms systems? + RE: transferring files to/from vms systems? + Re: transferring files to/from vms systems? / RE: Tru64 Unix Clustering with OpenVMS Clusters  User mode logicals Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel? ( RE: VMS Pipe command & symbol definition zmodemA Re: [Fwd: SWCC agent connectivity and client authorisation issue] , [x]  Play Free With Our Casino Sign-up Bonus  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:24:51 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> ; Subject: Re: Affordable Debate Summary (was: VAX on Intel?) ( Message-ID: <8irbqp$al3$1@pyrite.mv.net>  @ David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message' news:39502728.88FF33E2@earthlink.net... > > Here's my assessment of the situation. Your mileage may vary > considerably from this...   G Naturally.  So I'll correct your mistaken impressions of where I stand, C secure in the knowledge that at least in this area I understand the ! situation far better than you do.    > 0 > To summarize, there are essentially two camps: >  > In Compaq's corner: 
 > o Bill Todd  > o Larry Kilgallen 
 > o others  J First error:  I don't stand in Compaq's corner (as I currently see it) any? more than I stand in yours:  there are at least 3 corners here.    > H > These are the folks trying to drum Compaq's position into the folks inH > the other corner: that Compaq is intentionally abandoning all but it's/ > biggest and most lucrative OpenVMS customers.   K Not at all.  What I've been trying to drum into you is that it's reasonable C at this point in time for Compaq to devote minimal resources to its K *smallest and least lucrative* VMS customers:  they've been abandoned for a J decade or more anyway, and right now Compaq has more important fish to fryH (and several other systems better positioned to sell in the very low end anyway).   >  > In the Customers' corner:  > o David J. Dachtera  > o Chris Sheers
 > o others > H > These are the folks trying to drum the customers' position into CompaqH > before the remaining "low end" and "middle end(?)" customers defect toE > the competition and OpenVMS ends up with a weak market which cannot  > sustain itself.   L The specific assertion to which I have taken strong exception is that a portH of VMS to some less expensive (or, in the case of IA64, potentially moreJ common, even if not less expensive) architecture is of any real importanceJ to VMS's viability right now.  This assertion has been tied tightly to theK idea that very-low-end entry-level VMS configurations will somehow save the  system.    > 	 > Summary 	 > -------  > / > Essentially, the two camps are at an impasse.  > G > The Pro-Compaq camp has adopted the "company" line and feels that the B > other side is wrong for wanting to stay in the OepnVMS business.  J Bullshit.  If you're incapable of extracting content from the material you- read, you really shouldn't try to discuss it.     In a I > nutshell, their message is tantamount to "Compaq has turned its back on H > you. Get over it. Move on." They also tend to equate "affordable" with@ > "IA32", even though the two are separate, but related, issues. > B > The Pro-Customer camp maintains the position that the customer'sE > decision to commit to OpenVMS should not be second guessed and that = > Compaq should exploit this market instead of abandoning it.   J 1.  Compaq can't abandon it, because VMS was never there (in the extremely	 low end).   K 2.  Compaq can't exploit it, because there's little evidence that (for VMS) E any worthwhile demand in that market segment exists (the point I keep 8 challenging you to substantiate, and you keep avoiding).    NeitherG > should we, as business people, be penalized for our choice to support J > these customers since our costs to retrain on other systems take a large" > toll on our profits and margins.  I Compaq is not in the welfare business.  If your offerings that used to be J competitive on the VMS platform have been undercut by competition based onG less expensive platforms, but market realities make it unprofitable for H Compaq to try to move VMS into that new, bottom-end market segment, thenI guess what?  That's free enterprise, and it's your problem, not Compaq's.    - bill   > C > Again, this is my assessment. Your mileage may vary considerably.  >  > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems $ > http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/ > < > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:- > http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 21:38:51 -0500 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> ; Subject: Re: Affordable Debate Summary (was: VAX on Intel?) - Message-ID: <39517C3B.BE5246A9@earthlink.net>    Bill Todd wrote: > B > David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message) > news:39502728.88FF33E2@earthlink.net... @ > > Here's my assessment of the situation. Your mileage may vary > > considerably from this...  > I > Naturally.  So I'll correct your mistaken impressions of where I stand,   D ...which you will subsequently go on to prove correct again, with no further effort on my part.  E > secure in the knowledge that at least in this area I understand the # > situation far better than you do.    Debatable, at best.     > > 2 > > To summarize, there are essentially two camps: > >  > > In Compaq's corner:  > > o Bill Todd  > > o Larry Kilgallen  > > o others > L > First error:  I don't stand in Compaq's corner (as I currently see it) anyA > more than I stand in yours:  there are at least 3 corners here.   H ...as long as the third corner overlaps at least one of the others by at> least 99%, as you will go on to prove in your final paragraph.    > > J > > These are the folks trying to drum Compaq's position into the folks inJ > > the other corner: that Compaq is intentionally abandoning all but it's1 > > biggest and most lucrative OpenVMS customers.  > M > Not at all.  What I've been trying to drum into you is that it's reasonable E > at this point in time for Compaq to devote minimal resources to its M > *smallest and least lucrative* VMS customers:  they've been abandoned for a L > decade or more anyway, and right now Compaq has more important fish to fryJ > (and several other systems better positioned to sell in the very low end
 > anyway).  D That is, you're trying to drum Compaq's position into us, instead ofF being sensitive to the needs of the customer (the cornerstone of every- successful, profitable, long-lived business).     > >  > > In the Customers' corner:  > > o David J. Dachtera  > > o Chris Sheers > > o others > > J > > These are the folks trying to drum the customers' position into CompaqJ > > before the remaining "low end" and "middle end(?)" customers defect toG > > the competition and OpenVMS ends up with a weak market which cannot  > > sustain itself.  > N > The specific assertion to which I have taken strong exception is that a portJ > of VMS to some less expensive (or, in the case of IA64, potentially more  ? For the umpteenth time: Affordable <> IAxx, Affordable != IAxx,  "Affordable" .NES. "IA" + xx.   ( Got it that time? I doubt it, but WTF...  L > common, even if not less expensive) architecture is of any real importanceL > to VMS's viability right now.  This assertion has been tied tightly to theM > idea that very-low-end entry-level VMS configurations will somehow save the 	 > system.   > Who the hell said that? Still haven't done your homework, huh?    > >  > > Summary  > > -------  > > 1 > > Essentially, the two camps are at an impasse.  > > I > > The Pro-Compaq camp has adopted the "company" line and feels that the D > > other side is wrong for wanting to stay in the OepnVMS business. > L > Bullshit.  If you're incapable of extracting content from the material you/ > read, you really shouldn't try to discuss it.   E Well, you won't even take the time to locate the material. Guess that  says it all.    >  In a K > > nutshell, their message is tantamount to "Compaq has turned its back on J > > you. Get over it. Move on." They also tend to equate "affordable" withB > > "IA32", even though the two are separate, but related, issues. > > D > > The Pro-Customer camp maintains the position that the customer'sG > > decision to commit to OpenVMS should not be second guessed and that ? > > Compaq should exploit this market instead of abandoning it.  > L > 1.  Compaq can't abandon it, because VMS was never there (in the extremely > low end).   G I guess you've never heard of VAXstation/MicroVAX 2000, MicroVAX II Q1, H MicroVAX II Q3 ("World Box"), not to mention "Jensen" boxes, and others.B (Multia never was intended to run VMS, but we should not forget itG either since the Linux and *BSD people find them useful as DNS servers, G NAT servers, routers, etc., OpenVMS hobbyists find useful as a VMS box, $ and it IS a "very-low-end" machine.)  E Am I the only one who remembers all the talk about VMS's "scalability $ from the desktop to the datacenter"?   M > 2.  Compaq can't exploit it, because there's little evidence that (for VMS) 5 > any worthwhile demand in that market segment exists   G high price = low (or no) demand (Business 101, 1st semester, Chapter 2:  The Law of Supply and Demand)    > (the point I keep # > challenging you to substantiate,     Already did.   > and you keep avoiding).   G Correction: you keep refusing to do your homework. If you want me to do H it for you, my rates are $100/hr with a two(2) hour minimum. What's yourF billing address? (I'll waive the usual credit checks, just to show you I'm a hell of a guy.)    
 >  NeitherI > > should we, as business people, be penalized for our choice to support L > > these customers since our costs to retrain on other systems take a large$ > > toll on our profits and margins. > K > Compaq is not in the welfare business.  If your offerings that used to be L > competitive on the VMS platform have been undercut by competition based onI > less expensive platforms, but market realities make it unprofitable for J > Compaq to try to move VMS into that new, bottom-end market segment, thenK > guess what?  That's free enterprise, and it's your problem, not Compaq's.   H Thank you for again proving my point so eloquently. Screw the customers! All Hail Compaq!   > > E > > Again, this is my assessment. Your mileage may vary considerably.  > >   3 What part of that statement did you not understand?    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems " http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:+ http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 19:23:24 GMT # From: Mark Sterk <strong@chello.nl> Q Subject: Re: Alpha DEC 2000-300 (Jensen?) - Serial port as console -  (serialECU) ( Message-ID: <39511571.556CE93@chello.nl>  J I have lost the first mails about you're quest, but if you are still usingB the serial console you'll get some problems using the ECU program.  G When you are at the ECU menu you have to go to the 3th option to add or 
 remove cards. K If you have standard cards this will work automatically, non standard cards  have to be done by hand.K But now comes the tricky bit, you have to confirm by pressing F10, due to a & bug this goes wrong on some terminals.  J You have to change the terminal to 8 bit characters if you had it on 7 bit and 7 bit if you had it on 8. I Now the terminal sends the F10 codes correctly and you can leave and save  the changes.  B If this isn't working you have to ask me, I have some list at work8 containing a set of special escape codes to force a F10.   Success,   Mark       Chris Scheers wrote:   > Adrian Lumsden wrote:  > > 0 > > I think the floppy is OK. I have just done a1 > > BACKUP /PHYSICAL/VERIFY from the ECU diskette 9 > > to a saveset in a file and then done the reverse back 8 > > to another floppy. It didn't report any verification2 > > errors. I also did an ANALYZE /MEDIA/EXER=FULL= > > on the second floppy and that didn't report any problems.  > > 7 > > The good (strange) news is that the copy of the ECU 6 > > floppy does seem to run. The bad news is to figure4 > > out what I have to do with it. I'm familiar with1 > > EISA configurations on PCs (quite a few years 0 > > ago now) but I'm a bit worried about messing7 > > with the configuration of this system since I don't 6 > > have any documentation about environment variables > > etc. > >  > > Any hints or tips? > J > If you are trying to set up the SRM, i.e., VMS or UNIX, there aren't any > environment variables. > D > Assuming that you have the standard set of EISA boards (and no ISAH > boards that require configuration), you just run the ECU and then saveC > the configuration.  It doesn't need anything in the way of input.  > I > If you have a non-standard configuration, you may need to interact with G > ECU more.  Realize however, that a non-standard configuration may not 
 > run VMS! > G > If I remember correctly, you run the ECU by getting to the SRM prompt % > (>>>) and using the command RUNECU.  >  > Good luck! > I > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- & > Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc. > I > 817-237-3360 (Voice)    817-237-3074 (Fax)    Internet: asi@airmail.net    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2000 16:59:20 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Amazon?+ Message-ID: <+3tVBHU4VU31@eisner.decus.org>   n In article <7162F87E9EF4D311BA9900805FC1D3AE7A6189@and02.drc.com>, "Ebinger . Eric" <EEbinger@drc.com> writes:0 > Gee, I thought Amazon threw Alpha overboard?   > N > http://www1.compaq.com/pressrelease/0,1494,wp%7E14583_2%21ob%7E31415_1_1,00. > html  = Let me guess, you read it in a Hewlett-Packard press release.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:23:38 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: Amazon?, Message-ID: <39513257.8B3F507A@videotron.ca>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:G > Amazon kicked the Alphaservers that were hosting most of Amazons back K > end systems out in favour of HP V series machines last year in a quid pro 8 > quo deal with HP (they got to sell HP kit via Amazon).  L The Compaq news relese now only talked about web servers. So Compaq was ableL to put a positive spin even if it lost out big with Amazon. My guess is thatM once Amazon called Compaq's bluff and signed with HP with all the fanfare and0L notes that Amazon was dropping Compaq, Compaq may have finally sharpened itsK pencils and found a way to get Amazon to keep some Compaq gear in its shop.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 18:55:42 -0400c+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>  Subject: RE: Amazon?J Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284447@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com>   Andrew,q  L Like most fud, you are making statements that are far from the truth. Please re-read the release.  J Do you honestly believe that a company would post a news release like thisA (with a quote from the Customer IT manager) if it were not true? dL <http://www1.compaq.com/pressrelease/0,1494,wp%7E14583_2%21ob%7E31415_1_1,00 .html>  0 Geeezzz... Andrew, your fud has had better days.  G Yep, Compaq made a bid for some NEW servers and it lost. That happens. t  L However, given that Amazon has a huge amount of Alpha's in place (with plansG to buy more as indicated in the above), I am sure you realize that when I deals for new servers are made, no company makes immediate plans to throw K the old ones out the window. The new ones will be slowly phased in over theMI lifetime of the agreement and the onus is now on the new vendor to ensureRD their stuff performs much better than the Customers current servers.   Should be interesting.   :-)u  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant,
 Compaq CanadaW Professional Services  Voice : 613-592-4660 FAX   : 819-772-7036 Email : kerry.main@compaq.com        -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancyi! [mailto:andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com]n' Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 10:11 AM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comv Subject: Re: Amazon?     "Ebinger . Eric" wrote:s  . > Gee, I thought Amazon threw Alpha overboard? >r > L http://www1.compaq.com/pressrelease/0,1494,wp%7E14583_2%21ob%7E31415_1_1,00. > html >n > Eric Ebinger  C Bizzare, someone in Compaqs marketing department seems to have beena- smoking some form of mind altering substance.a  E Amazon kicked the Alphaservers that were hosting most of Amazons backuI end systems out in favour of HP V series machines last year in a quid pro-6 quo deal with HP (they got to sell HP kit via Amazon).  J This year they got further into bed with HP in return for more HP products) that they could sell via their web sites.D       Regards@ Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 18:06:37 GMTn- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley).= Subject: Re: Be extra careful when upgrading to TCPware 5.4-3l, Message-ID: <3951038b.16280440@news.wku.edu>  / On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 22:42:58 -0500, Scott Vieth $ <svieth@ameritech.net.nospam> wrote: >uB >Be sure to read and re-read all of the docs for TCPware 5.4-3 andF >then go to their ftp site to get all necessary patches before you set1 >out to upgrade a production VMS system to 5.4-3.t > F Reading the release notes for any new version of any product is always a good idea.  E >1. After the upgrade, the TCPware ftp client started sending out them >username in ALL UPPERCASEB >when the VMS system connected to a Unix box.  Not good.  The UnixI >box that we were trying to send file to does not like usernames that are F >all uppercase.  That system doesn't even bother to ask for a password@ >if you send an all-caps username, it just drops the connection. >l [...] G >I reported all of these problems to TCPware tech support.  There was a  >patchI >to fix problems two and three.  The first one is still unresolved.  I amr >usingC >ftp.exe from a previous version of TCPware until they get this onet >fixed.e > C We just released ECO kit FTP_V543P090 which fixes this problem too.   E >I thought this product was more stable than that.  I didn't expect a  >bunchF >of really funky problems to pop up with something simple like the ftpI >client and the ftp server.  I'd expect this from a Micro$oft product butt >f? >not from a VMS layered product that has been around for years.o >s9 We replaced the FTP server with a new implementation and,eA unfortunately, a few compatibility issues weren't seen during ourhF alpha and beta testing.  Hopefully, all such issues have been resolvedB with this latest ECO kit.  If not, please contact our tech support group at <Support@PROCESS.COM>.m   Thanks!h     Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/e: goathunter@Goatley.com      http://www.goatley.com/hunter/: Check out Dangerous Dwarf:  http://www.dangerousdwarf.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 01:59:27 GMTb$ From: Ed Wilts <ewilts@mediaone.net>) Subject: Re: Besides Pathworks for Mac... , Message-ID: <39517300.7D0721CF@mediaone.net>   Christoph Gartmann wrote:h > M > I remember a problem with certain types of Alpha processors though. Perhapso, > someone can comment a bit more about that?  H The problem was that the EV6 check utility (whose name I can't remember)A failed on the executables.  It also fails on a whole bunch of VMSdF executables.  I ended up doing the logical thing - installing PWMac onH an EV6 system - the DS10 - doing a lot of testing, and it's been workingD flawlessly.  At this point I'm concluding that PWMac does not have a problem on the EV6.  l   Cheers,t 	.../EdV --   Ed Wilts Mounds View, MN, USA mailto:ewilts@mediaone.net   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jun 2000 19:35:18 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)l0 Subject: Re: Cisco Has DECNet Ping - VMS Doesn't' Message-ID: <8ir5dm$6ip$1@joe.rice.edu>   6 David J. Dachtera (djesys.nospam@earthlink.net) wrote: : Jerry Leslie wrote:n : > A : > Cisco routers capable of routing DECNet and LAT have a DECNetn? : > ping that allows the user to specify the size and number ofs : > packets to be transmitted. : > C : > Is it possible to add this functionality to VMS, to be availbleeB : > to both DECnet Phase IV and DECNet-PLUS systems, perhaps as an : > enhancement of DTSEND ?o   : My favorite trick is:    : $ TYPE node::NL:  B : ...and see whether its says the remote node is reachable or not.  ! : Dunno if that's good enough ...p  9 That gives a status of reachable or not, but doesn't givep8 any timing information, which is what the network person& is looking for when there's a problem.  I We've used that technique to monitor the network connectivity of the few  * VMS systems that didn't have TCP/IP stack.    4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jun 2000 19:48:29 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)r0 Subject: Re: Cisco Has DECNet Ping - VMS Doesn't' Message-ID: <8ir66d$6ip$2@joe.rice.edu>e  9 Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists (gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl) wrote:b% : On 21 Jun 2000, Jerry Leslie wrote:I  @ : +Cisco routers capable of routing DECNet and LAT have a DECNet> : +ping that allows the user to specify the size and number of : +packets to be transmitted.e : +iB : +Is it possible to add this functionality to VMS, to be availbleB : +to both DECnet Phase IV and DECNet-PLUS systems, perhaps as an  : +enhancement of DTSEND ?   :  Wait a moment. > :  I can't be sure, if in the first seen VMS version (4.2) theG : test was already implemented (probably yes), but for sure on 5.X was.n  ( :  What (you think) will do the command:  . : $ mc ncp loop node ANODE count 10 lenght 120  , :  suposing ANODE is node name or address ??  = :  You can also check what LOOP LINE and LOOP CIRCUIT does...   : :  And I am confused, that haven't already see this answer7 :  on info-VAX, and also that *you* can think that some ' :  feature is not implemented in VMS ;)i  J You just need to debug a DECNet latency problem on a IP/DECNet/LAT WAN :-)L We're looking for the same functionality as the Cisco has, so we can measure DECnet performance.      :  (ok, ok, don't flame me !)m> :  The application-level check (David, access via FAL) is the  : next level of check -:)n  @ My apologies for not stating the requirements. We're looking for> something that gives quantitative results much like those from the TCP/IP ping   D DTSEND provides some quantitative results, but they're a combination of what TCP/IP ping produces.e  I NCP's loop node doesn't seem to provide any quantitative results, unless f2 I'm doing something wrong, a distinct possibility:  9   <SCCN02> mcr ncp loop node sccvx6 count 100 length 3000 
   <SCCN02>      4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 01:36:28 -0400d- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>o5 Subject: Clusterwide logical suggestion/documentationc, Message-ID: <3951A5DB.EF197AE7@videotron.ca>  D The VMS 7.2 on-line help on creating logical names (HELP SYS $CRELNMK arguments) stipulates that logical names are restricted to 32 characters in K the process and system directory tables are limited to 31 characters, whileE< others are limited to 255. No mention of clusterwide tables.  J The VMS Cluster manual makes no mention of the length of the logical name.M http://WWW.OPENVMS.DIGITAL.COM:8000/72final/4477/4477pro_007.html#index_x_357   @ Also, that page provides confusing examples of clustwide tables:   <quote> K The following example shows how to create a clusterwide logical name in the K default clusterwide logical name table, LNM$CLUSTER_TABLE, using the DEFINEa	 command: e  A  $ DEFINE/TABLE=LNM$CLUSTER_TABLE logical-name equivalence-stringf </quote>   further along: <quote>nL For clusterwide definitions in a common SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM, Compaq recommends> that you use a conditional definition, such as the following:   /  $ IF F$TRNLNM("CLUSTER_APPS") .EQS. "" THEN - o4  _$ DEFINE/TABLE=LNM$SYSCLUSTER/EXEC CLUSTER_APPS -   _$ 1$DKA500:[COMMON_APPS]   </quote>    J The second example, which uses LNM$SYSCLUSTER works in the expected way byL making logical names "visible" on all nodes with a SHOW LOG command, whereas> in the first examble (LNM$CLUSTER_TABLE) requires that you use3 /TABLE=LNM$CLUSTER_TABLE with the SHOW LOG command.     M Also, by using two different logical name tables in the examples in that pagetL without expolaining the differences between each can lead to user confusion.   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Jun 2000 04:18:19 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)  Subject: Common Alpha Executable, Message-ID: <8is42b$bra@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  < More and more often I'm finding that software, even academicD software, is only available in binary form.  This is really the pits@ if your main machine runs OpenVMS as there's not much you can doD with an SGI or Sun executable.  This week I obtained a copy of CAP3,F a DNA assembly program, and ran it on one of our Linux DS10s.  It thenI turned out that this was actually a Tru64 executable!  I've tried runningoK Tru64 binaries on Linux before, with no luck, but apparently some subset of ? Tru64 programs will run on Linux (and presumably, vice versa.) l   Hmm.  H Compaq provides compilers/linkers for Alphas for: OpenVMS, Tru64, Linux,   and soon/now Tandem's.  J Compaq has produced numerous cross platform tools such as VEST, and knows  rather a lot about such things.p  B Compaq is in the midst of making the OpenVMS C RTL much more Unix  compatible./   So...   D One can imagine a switch "Common Alpha Environment" = CAE such that:   $ cc/cae program $ link/cae program* $ define dcl$path f$environment("default")	 $ programi) $ rcp program.exe "linuxbox:/tmp/program"  $ rsh linuxbox "/tmp/program"i  F That is, the program, when compiled and linked this way, ON ANY ALPHA,G would be able to run on every Alpha platform.  Ie, CAE would result in  H a Common Alpha Executable!  Yes, it would probably be restricted to some5 subset of the C RTL functions, but you get the idea. r  7 This would really be huge plus, I think, for everybody.q  C Imagine if you will that we get native Wordperfect for Linux/Alpha.uB Odds of getting Corel (or whoever owns it at that time) to port toF OpenVMS - nil.  But if all they had to do to make it run on all AlphasB was put -cae in the Makefile (and restrict themselves to that coreC library), they'd probably do it. So that the same version would runt4 on Tru64 and Linux, and OpenVMS would just be gravy.  C This is actually somewhat better than the situation with Intel too.lC Right now if I have a Windows binary odds are I can't get it to runnH on Linux (unless it's running in a virtual machine or some other similarD construct.)  And look at the mess if you have to use Wine.  Now thatG Windows is out of the mix on Alpha Compaq is free to provide what couldUE be a very useful capability.  They are also free to put anything intoaB that environment that they want to - so long as they provide it on all 4 platforms at once.  H This would be one heck of a lot better for sales than Affinity ever was!   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edua? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech t   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:27:16 -0400e- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>m/ Subject: Re: Compaq paying for software ports ?o, Message-ID: <39513330.E38BA07E@videotron.ca>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:8F >   We already are.  For what should be obvious reasons, I am not in aI >   position to discuss business deals nor specific arrangements nor evenmF >   specific vendors, but we have been and are continuing to work with >   application vendors.    M Thanks for the information. However, from a marketing point of view, it would N give VMS quite a boost if Compaq and whatever other companies were to announceI a "strategic partnership" to bring more software to VMS. (NOt just hide ap9 press release in a database, I mean really ANNOUNCE it !)d   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2000 15:22:01 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett))/ Subject: Re: Compaq paying for software ports ?e, Message-ID: <LyvtcstHTTzK@malvm2.mala.bc.ca>  - In article <39513330.E38BA07E@videotron.ca>,  2    JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > O > Thanks for the information. However, from a marketing point of view, it wouldsP > give VMS quite a boost if Compaq and whatever other companies were to announce; > a "strategic partnership" to bring more software to VMS. o  I    You mean like the "strategic partnership" they had with Microsoft with. the Affinity program?  :-)  G    We've already had an example of this sort of "strategic partnership"gK BS coming out of Compaq and Oracle. What we need are real products shippingtK to real customers at the same (or very close to) time as they ship on otheruG platforms. Oracle 8.1.x has been shipping on Unix for something like a tB year and it *might* just now be available on VMS ( if you can find8 the right people and make the right secret handshakes ).  M =============================================================================-M Malcolm Dunnett      Malaspina University-College   Email: dunnett@mala.bc.capH Information Systems  Nanaimo, B.C. CANADA V9R 5S5     Tel: (250)755-8738   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 22:18:09 -04002- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s/ Subject: Re: Compaq paying for software ports ?o, Message-ID: <3951775D.E8BDE9E8@videotron.ca>   Malcolm Dunnett wrote:I >    We've already had an example of this sort of "strategic partnership"rM > BS coming out of Compaq and Oracle. What we need are real products shippingwM > to real customers at the same (or very close to) time as they ship on other H > platforms. Oracle 8.1.x has been shipping on Unix for something like aD > year and it *might* just now be available on VMS ( if you can find: > the right people and make the right secret handshakes ).  J To be the devil's advocate, what if the VMS engineers were busy working onL full unix compliance of VMS which would make all ports much easier from unix
 source code ?   J Would this not be worth a bit more waiting ? IF that is the case, wouldn'tJ ports to VMS after such a feature is release be MUCH MUCH easier and thuse	 cheaper ?l  G Of course, this is all speculation, and some hard facts on where Compaq N *really* intends to bring VMS would be very appreciated, but we all know it is6 unrealistic to expect the truth about VMS from Compaq.   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jun 2000 15:40:16 PDTT From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515)' Subject: DECNET-Plus, DTSS, NTP and UTC,3 Message-ID: <M0Ze4F51Pb3r@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>r  H         I need to bring  up  a  bunch  of  old issues here: DECNET-Plus,H     DTSS,  NTP,  but  also  UTC and the  various  SYS$TIMEZONE*  logical     names...       BACKGROUND     ----------H         I have a DS10 running  VMS  7.2-1  and DECNET-Plus with MultinetH     4.2A  installed.  Consider this a stand-alone system for the  momentH     even though I'll be adding it to my cluster soon.  The rest  of  theH     cluster  still  runs  DECNET  IV.   My  main  motivation for runningH     DECNET-Plus on this node is  that  this gives me DECNET-over-IP to aH     few  other  clusters/systems  at our site,  whereas  the  networkingH     people pulled the plug on DECNET routing in the site's routers  lastH     fall.   I.e.,  from  my cluster nodes (DECNET IV), I can't get thereH     from here (where "there" is  any  node  outside our local subnet via     DECNET).  H         Note that we use NTP  pretty  much universally on-site and there,     are no DTSS servers configured anywhere.  H         I spent probably two hours  at  deja.com this morning looking upH     old  discussions relating to DTSS (and the Too Few Servers  DetectedH     messages), how to block the messages, how to disable the DTSS Clerk,H     how to set up your node as a DTSS Server, etc.  I'm still left  withH     basic  questions about how _best_ to configure DTSS _and_ use NTP to!     synchronize the system clock..  
     ISSUES
     ------H         There are various and sundry  interactions between DTSS, NTP andH     UTC,  and the various system *TIME* logical names.  In particular, IH     found  that  if  I  did  a   DISABLE   DTSS   &   DELETE   DTSS   inH     NET$DTSS_CLERK_STARTUP.NCL,   and   followed   that   by   executingH     SYS$MANAGER:UTC$TIME_SETUP.COM,   that   on   reboot,   the  variousH     SYS$TIMEZONE*  logical names were wrong (that is, set to PST  valuesH     rather than PDT values).  I got similar results  if  I  renamed  theH     DTSS NCL file "out of the way", but in that case, I found that thereH     was  a  DTSS$SERVER  process  running  where before I had (or didn't'     have) a DTSS$CLERK process running.-  H         Finally, I put the  _default_ NET$DTSS_CLERK_STARTUP.NCL back inH     place,  execute  UTC$TIME_SETUP and rebooted, and _now_ the  logicalH     names are set correctly _and_ NTP adjusts the time correctly!  I  doH     get  the  Too Few Servers Detected OPCOM messages from DTSS, which IH     duly suppressed with  MC  NCL  BLOCK  EVENT DISPATCHER ... commands.E     Nevertheless, I wonder if this is the correct, or best, solution?e  
     QUESTIONS 
     --------- D       o Would I, for instance,  be  better  off  to make this node aD         DTSS  Server,  and if so, how do I get it to use  its  local)         system clock as corrected by NTP?e  D       o Given that there are no  DTSS  Servers  on the network, if ID         continue to run as a DTSS Clerk, will DTSS change the systemD         time  in  spite  of NTP?  [I  currently  suppress  automaticD         spring and fall time changes  due  to  requirements  of  ourD         production  node...I'd  be very distressed if DTSS "thought"D         it was smarter than me, or NTP,  and did these changes on myC         behalf.] What is required to set up a DTSS Server this way?a  D       o Could I simply wait  until  late  in the boot process, afterD         DTSS  has  set up the SYSTEM logical names, to DISABLE  DTSSD         and DELETE DTSS, or  would  I  still  have  problems  duringD         spring  and  fall  time  changes?  Note that I currently runD         SYS$MANAGER:UTC$CONFIGURE_TDF.COM  on   all   cluster  nodesD         (DECNET IV) when I do the spring and fall time changes to beD         sure  that SYS$TIMEZONE_DIFFERENTIAL and that "special  cellD         in memory", EXE$GQ_TDF, get changed correctly  (as  well  as7         doing the appropriate stuff in MULTINET, etc.).g    )         Thanks for any and all responses.d               -Ken --M  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Edu :  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924:  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515N  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------B  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Jun 2000 04:49:31 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) 6 Subject: Error In VMS SPD For AlphaServer 2100 5/375 ?& Message-ID: <8is5sr$gp$1@joe.rice.edu>  3 The OpenVMS SPD "Alpha Systems Supported" section::o  1   http://www.digital.com/info/SP2501/SP2501HM.HTMe3   Compaq OpenVMS Operating System For Alpha and VAXr   A mentions that "AlphaServer 2100 (All chip speeds)" are supported, C but "Hoff", in message ID 8hh1a7$5v1$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com,W states:n  B   "There are examples where OpenVMS Alpha itself does not support 3    specific platforms (eg: AlphaServer 2100 5/375)"c  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 21:28:19 +0200 , From: "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl>. Subject: Re: Fast ethernet on micro-vax series+ Message-ID: <8ir523$1ola$1@buty.wanadoo.nl>   K As far as I know, the Nemonix adapters are supported by, and can be orderedr through Compaq.e  J To me it seems an excellent solution for sites where migrating to an Alpha is not a viable solution.a  H For instance, the fast ethernet adapter for the VAX 4000 series machinesD does NOT plug into the Qbus (which would reduce the maximum speed toJ someting like 25 Mb/s) but onto an options connector on the CPU board. DEC@ never sold any options for this connector, but now Nemonix does.   Regards,  	 Bart Zorn   1 "Ed Wilts" <ewilts@mediaone.net> wrote in message & news:39502F18.C5D65DB7@mediaone.net... > Hoff Hoffman wrote:e > > 1 > > In article <0056890011596397000002L972*@MHS>,t& reindert.voorhorst@philips.com writes:H > > :Is there anyone who knows of or has experience with a fast ethernet ada=5 > > :pter on the micro-vax 3100-80 to 3100-96 series?t > >tK > >   The MicroVAX 3100 series was not particularly intended to be extended(K > >   (eg: to have random I/O options added) -- it is (largely) a "busless"1 > >   system box.G > >rI > > :The only type we know is probably offered by nemonixinc, though at ag? > > :somewhat less affordable price. Are there other solutions?y >mH > I had the same problem with a VAXstation 4000-90.  I ended up buying aI > new Alpha DS10 for less than what Nemonix wanted for a 100Mbps Ethernet @ > adapter.  Needless to say, the DS10 is a wee bit faster too... >f >  > --
 > Ed Wilts > Mounds View, MN, USA > mailto:ewilts@mediaone.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:46:25 -0500s7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>W- Subject: Re: FIND,DFU and [?]F11$MOVEFILE.TMPi- Message-ID: <395137B0.2E36AEED@earthlink.net>a   YIKES!   Yeah - that's a toughie!  F Still, if VERIFY (ANA/DISK) doesn't consider it a valid file header, I think I'd trust it.u  F If the source code for FIND can be found, perhaps one of the gurus can" determine what it's doing and why.   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: > h > In article <394ED00D.4617A6F@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes: > >Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote:n > >>To do what ?/ > >>DIR lists only file entered in a directory.n6 > >>And as I wrote the Backlink File Id is (0,0,0) ... > >aF > >That, in itself, is not entirely meaningful, except to say that theB > >backlink FId is "broken" ... and if the file is not listed in aH > >directory, then ANALYZE/DISK/NOREPAIR should report them as such, no? > 3 > Yes, it should. But it doesn't. Or so it seems...h > G > >Try DIRECTORY/SIZE=ALL/DATE/FILE_ID/OUT=XX.LIS and SEARCH XX.LIS forD > >F11$. >  > No entries. As expected.E > AFAIK, DFG does not create temporary files entered in any directory G > and nobody of my group does create F11$MOVEFILE.TMP files for fun ;-)e > S > >> So, is this a real file ? Does it occupy space on the disk (eg. 189788 Blks) ?gN > >> Why is the FID funny and why does AN/DI not find the file as "not entered! > >> in a directory" or similar ?  > >eH > >All else fails, try SEARCHing INDEXF.SYS for F11$, or DUMP INDEXF.SYS7 > >and either SEARCH the .DMP file or scan it visually.t > L > I did found them with DUMP. But DUMP/FILE does not interpret it correctly.J > Maybe it's not a valid fileheader and therefore the asterisk in FIND andM > therefore no warning by ANAL/DISK and therefore DFU DEL/FILE can't find andtK > delete it, but FIND can nevertheless display (some) information containedt  > in the file header. Comments ? >  > eg.  > % > $ find/nam=f11$*/disp=file $1$dua1:e >  > [?]F11$MOVEFILE.TMP;1E > File ID = (*10211,219,0) >  > [?]F11$MOVEFILE.TMP;1_ > File ID = (*10270,87,0)r >  > [?]F11$MOVEFILE.TMP;1c > File ID = (*10308,2627,0)  >  > [?]F11$MOVEFILE.TMP;1o > File ID = (*10389,118,0) >  > [?]F11$MOVEFILE.TMP;1l > File ID = (*13422,122,0) >  > $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT 10211+117 > 10328n? > $ dump/file/val/blo=(sta=10328,cou=1) $1$dua1:[0,0]indexf.syse > G > Dump of file $1$DUA1:[000,000]INDEXF.SYS;1 on 21-JUN-2000 17:28:06.93n= > File ID (1,1,0)   End of file block 39108 / Allocated 40120c > 9 > Virtual block number 10328 (00002858), 512 (0200) bytesM > > >  00000000 00DB0000 02010000 FFFF6428 (d............. 000000> >  00060000 00080000 00400202 00000000 ......@......... 000010> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 0000001C ................ 000020> >  00010004 00000000 00000800 00000000 ................ 000030> >  00000009 00000000 00000000 0000FF44 D............... 000040> >  504D542E 454C4946 45564F4D 24313146 F11$MOVEFILE.TMP 000050> >  1E7E009A DF5FFE48 3036000D 2020313B ;1  ..60H_..~. 000060> >  1B4B0000 00000000 0000009E 98EC8F46 F............K. 000070> >  20202020 20202020 2020009E A5813CF0 <...           000080> >  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  000090> >  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  0000A0> >  20202020 20202020 20202020 20202020                  0000B0> >  00000000 00000000 20202020 20202020         ........ 0000C0> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000D0> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000E0> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0000F0> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000100> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000110> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000120> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000130> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000140> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000150> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000160> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000170> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000180> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 000190> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0001A0> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0001B0> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0001C0> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0001D0> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0001E0> >  00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 ................ 0001F0 >  > >Other than that...  > % > is a disk doctor around somewhere ?h >  > --> > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651= > Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888 > > FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH > <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANJ > A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"P > "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998     -- o David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systemsn" http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:+ http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 16:39:38 +1200o" From: Bill Eaton <discard@uce.net>" Subject: FS: MV3400 (Auckland, NZ)' Message-ID: <3951988A.522F9AAD@uce.net>    Fine antique VAX for sale:  D MV3400,  36MB, 3 x RF72 (1GB ea), 1 x TK70 , plus compatible Exabyte 8200.n  F Posting this on comp.os.vms because the VMS license is worth more than
 the hardware.l( DECnet end-node license may also excite.D I am told licenses are transferable to buyer (NZ$250 transfer fee to Compaq.)  G Locals (Auckland) wanting to make a derisory offer should inspect emaily address below.- I am not keen on shipping this anywhere else.    eatonwatfpdotcodotnz   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Jun 2000 17:49:36 -05001 From: kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)36 Subject: Re: How do I calculate CONNECT TIME from DCL?+ Message-ID: <OuAFN0Ms2a+j@eisner.decus.org>u  W In article <17JUN200017344530@gerg.tamu.edu>, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:nO > }The following only works up to 24 hours (after which it just says "more than N > }24 hours", but could be modified to remove that limitation without too much > }difficulty. > [...]l >  > Replying to my own post... > F > OK. I said that when I originally posted that. So I went and did it. > F > (As an added bonus, you get a subroutine that calculates the modifed > julian day.) > L > Here's a version that should work with pretty much any valid VMS date-timeI > for the login and current time, up to a login time on 17-nov-1858 and aa9 > curent time on 31-dec-9999 (I think it should, anyway).a  J It's not quite so easy. I tried this and found some processes on my system6 with more uptime than the system uptime! A neat trick.  L I think I found the problem. If the process wasn't created today, you're offG be exactly 1 day, 1 hour, and 1 minute, or more precicely, 24 hours, 60 I minutes, and 60 seconds. I think I've properly fixed it. I've stuck ''p1' I into the f$getjpi call to make it more generic, and added a SHO PROC /ACCyF /ID='P1 at the end to verify that the calculations are correct. I alsoC changed the third parameter on the f$cvtime from SECONDS to SECOND:a  = $ current_sec = F$Integer(F$CVTime(now,"ABSOLUTE","SECONDS"))yA %DCL-W-IVKEYW, unrecognized keyword - check validity and spelling 
  \SECONDS\< $ current_sec = F$Integer(F$CVTime(now,"ABSOLUTE","SECOND")) $    I've marked the changed lines.   Before:    $ @connect_time 20200207  G 21-JUN-2000 15:18:23.71   User: SYSTEM           Process ID:   20200207=J                           Node: CERES            Process name: "CONFIGURE"   Accounting information:pA  Buffered I/O count:        10  Peak working set size:        7045A  Direct I/O count:           8  Peak virtual size:         1685602A  Page faults:               42  Mounted volumes:                0j  Images activated:           0)  Elapsed CPU time:          0 00:31:29.818)  Connect time:             52 06:51:54.43 &                          0053-07:52:54   After:   $ @connect_time 20200207  G 21-JUN-2000 15:18:28.57   User: SYSTEM           Process ID:   20200207 J                           Node: CERES            Process name: "CONFIGURE"   Accounting information:.A  Buffered I/O count:        10  Peak working set size:        704gA  Direct I/O count:           8  Peak virtual size:         168560pA  Page faults:               42  Mounted volumes:                0o  Images activated:           0)  Elapsed CPU time:          0 00:31:29.81o)  Connect time:             52 06:51:59.30r&                          0052-06:51:59 $    $! connect_time.comi $! Calculate time since login.% $! Created: 17-Jun-2000, Carl Perkins  $!M $! Subroutine MJD calculates the modified julian day (days since 17-Nov-1858,u> $! which is - not exactly coincidentally - the VMS base date). $MJD: Subroutine
 $ jddate = p1a* $ jdy = F$CVTime(jddate,"ABSOLUTE","YEAR")- $ jdm = F$CVTime(jddate,"COMPARISON","MONTH")-) $ jdd = F$CVTime(jddate,"ABSOLUTE","DAY")0 $ jdy = jdy + 8000 $ If jdm .LT. 3S $ Then $   jdy = jdy-1d $   jdm = jdm+12 $ EndIF9O $ mjday == (jdy*365)+(jdy/4)-(jdy/100)+(jdy/400)-3600821+(jdm*153+3)/5-92+jdd-1d $ Exit' $ EndSubtoutine ! end of MJD subtoutine  $!) $ login_dt = F$GetJPI("''p1'","LOGINTIM"),3 $ login_time = F$CVTime(login_dt,"ABSOLUTE","TIME")Y $ Call MJD "''login_dt'" $ login_mjd = mjdayR* $ now = F$CVTime("","ABSOLUTE","DATETIME") $ Call MJD "''now'"a $ current_mjd = mjdayt  $ If current_mjd .EQS. login_mjd $ Then ! use shortcutyO $   connect_time = "0000-"+F$CVTIME("''now'-0-''login_time'","ABSOLUTE","TIME")r# $ Else ! calculate the whole schmoos" $   days = current_mjd - login_mjd@ $   login_hour = F$Integer(F$CVTime(login_dt,"ABSOLUTE","HOUR"))= $   current_hour = F$Integer(F$CVTime(now,"ABSOLUTE","HOUR"))s. $   hours = current_hour-login_hour				!<<<<<<A $   login_min = F$Integer(F$CVTime(login_dt,"ABSOLUTE","MINUTE")) > $   current_min = F$Integer(F$CVTime(now,"ABSOLUTE","MINUTE")). $   minutes = current_min-login_min				!<<<<<<H $   login_sec = F$Integer(F$CVTime(login_dt,"ABSOLUTE","second"))!<<<<<<F $   current_sec = F$Integer(F$CVTime(now,"ABSOLUTE","second"))	!<<<<<<. $   seconds = current_sec-login_sec				!<<<<<<$ $   If (seconds .lt. 0)						!<<<<<< $   Then% $     minutes = minutes-1					!<<<<<<t& $     seconds = seconds+60					!<<<<<<	 $   EndIf $ $   If (minutes .lt. 0)						!<<<<<< $   Then" $     hours = hours-1						!<<<<<<& $     minutes = minutes+60					!<<<<<<	 $   EndIf " $   If (hours .lt. 0)						!<<<<<< $   Then $     days= days-1						!<<<<<< # $     hours = hours+24						!<<<<<< 	 $   EndIf  $   If (days .LE. 9999)  $   ThenL $     connect_time = F$FAO("!4ZL-!2ZL:!2ZL:!2ZL",days,hours,minutes,seconds) $   ElseK $     connect_time = F$FAO("!ZL-!2ZL:!2ZL:!2ZL",days,hours,minutes,seconds)E	 $   EndIF  $ EndIFE$ $ sho proc /acc /id='p1						!<<<<<<D $ write sys$output "                         ", connect_time	!<<<<<<   Thanks to all for the help.s   	Bob Kaplow	  E SPAM:	spamrecycle@ChooseYourmail.com	uce@ftc.gov	postmaster@127.0.0.1a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:39:41 -0400l- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>h- Subject: Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?)n. Message-ID: <sl26h0k1e7f56@corp.supernews.com>   John Nebel wrote in message ...  >  >Peter,I >tE >I called the Office of the Chairman of the Senate Government Affairs @ >Committee (Fred Thompson) and they promised to e-mail a hearing >transcript. >aE >If it actually arrives, I'll put it up on an ftp server and post ther >relevant bit here.a     Thanks.,  F >Interestingly enough, the aid answering the phone knew about Mitnick.  F Exactly my point, my Mother knows nothing about computers but she knewC that WIN95 was the greatest thing ever created in August of 95, shecC knew when the ILOVEYOU virus came out and she knows that Mitnick isi@ the world's greatest hacker. A 30 second blurb in prime time (or? better yet, have Regis ask a contestent "According to Mitnick'seD testimony in front of the U.S. Congress, what was the only operatingC system he could not break into? ... Is that your final answer?...")n would be great for VMS.   D (and before anyone joins in to tell me that Mitnick probably did getE into VMS somewhere, who cares??? You word the ad right by saying that 9 this is according to his testimony in front of Congress.)o   ------------------------------   Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 00:05:03w From: <a1@bad-address.com>Y Subject: MONTREAL AREA --computer surplus upto 80% off-- 200 SKIDS OF COMPUTERS TO LIQUIDc* Message-ID: <525.156896.852939@server.com>  ;                                  HP items - all prices U.S.p 				www.aei.ca/~kamali2  g kamali2@aei.ca c* 			        514-744-9665 --- we accept amex1 laser trays over 2000 in stock --- fusers hp ii, C! iiisi,4si,4,4mv-- all laser partsl   hp jetdirects from $593 hp differential drive towers 4 x 4.3 gig barracuda e 			     4 x 2.2 gig fujitsu  			     4 x 1.2 gig $249  9 HP D4943A NETRAID PCI RAID LEVEL 5 ADAPTER NEW IN THE BOX    hp 9000 e35c
 hp9000 f20 hp 9000 800/140 857s     (upgrade a2464a)     a1703-60022      28696-60001a     28640-60001      gpib	     802.3l     scsi (se) parallel     c1504b 4mm dat drive     c2474s 2 units
     1150-1865     ) hp pentium ii 350 server lc3 (cti) d7018a5   advancestack 27288a router 430   advancestack switch 2000 j3100a- 	j3102a (2 units)- 	j3103a (4 units)r 	j3028a (8 units)  	j2606a (1 unit) fibre optic  	console rs232- hp28673a bridge  hp4995a lanprobe II4 hp2564b printer  hp 2563c hp 2563a3 jetdirect j2550 j2552 j2371 j2555 jetdirect ex etc r) all jetdirect cards $100 except j2555 $60j( 27286a router tr (cisco 4000 equivalent) 27289a router fr 28682A  FIBRE OPTIC HUBd
 28674A BRIDGE/
 28688B HUB C2261A STORAGE ENC
 27270A ROUTERg     CARDS : ENET 27271
    SYNC 27270s	    SYSI/Oa  ) hp 9000 series 700 128 meg  a1421x a2278b B eisa card #1 (looks like a digiboard ) bit 3 computer corporation  model 487-1-201 4 eisa card #2 fddi fibre optic transciever crescendo  communications model=                                                               
 es-9211-xf) eisa card #3 daughter board of above card-, hp ux 4 cd set release 9.0 part #b2826-13681 $call     have 2   in stockB  = 20 inch trinitron for the above (manufactured sept 1994) $400    hp 28682a fibreoptic hub plus1  # HP 4mm dat hp6400 1300s full height  hp 4mm dat c1504-600017 adic 4mm autochanger  (takes 12 tapes ) model 1200c-001o wangdat 3200 4mm dat sony sdt5000 4mm dat archive 4324rp 4mm dat exabyte exb8200 8mm datu exabyte exb8205 8mm dath exabyte exb8500 8mm dato exabyte exb8505 8mm dath  ( iiisi jetdirect for banyan rj45 and coax rj45 jetdirect for hp III  coax jetdirect for hp IIIb jetdircet combo for iiisi/ivsi h   !!!!!!!  HP RUGGEDWRITER  $190( hp apollo 400 16 meg 425 hard drive $400# hp 20inch and 17 inch trinitrons   E 500 NEW hp II and III trays> 60 NEW boxed HP IV multitrays1 200 NEW HP 3si/4si trays% hp under sheet feeder for hp IIP/IIIpa- Terminals HP 700/92,700/22, 700/94,700/96es  n HP 9000 /340 12 megs $140w   HP 98578  DOT MATRIX HP RUGGEDWRITER  $249 DOT MATRIX HP 2631Gf DOT MATRIX HP2563A   HP 7958n INKJET HP PAINTJET XL $250 PLOTTER HP 7550A $120  PLOTTER HP 7475A $80- PLOTTER PENS FOR HP (VACUUM SEALED SETS ) $20n SYSTEM HP 7936 SYSTEM HP MICRO X3 3000n   TAPE DRIVE HP 9144 TERMINAL HP 35731A   TERMINAL HPD1181E  HP LASERJET I   $80e HP LASERJET II  $200 HP LASERJET IID $300 HP LASERJET IIID $450w HP LASERJET IIISI $600 HP LASERJET 2000 40 PPM 11x17    98546a draftmaster sx plotter draftmaster I plotter 7595 draftmaster II plotter 7576a 9134	 2345a dtcw 2463ao
 laserjet 2000a hp 4955a logic analyserp    @ Note I have 30,000 sq. ft of computer surplus our list of our HP@ stuff is incomplete and always changing.  On some of ithe items  above-@ we have as many as 300 in stock.  If you wish to have a list of  our , non HP stuff check call 514-744-9665 or call6 A1 Vente Ordinateur at 514-744-9665 .  We accept AMEX.   `e8                    DAT and tape drives  Prices in U.S. $>                   I WILL BEAT ALL AD PRICES ON DAT DRIVES !!!!  B The following list is incomplete for items not listed please call  514-744-9665   scsi ribbon cable $1 scsi centronics to db25 $5 scsi mini to mini $10n  scsi centronics to centronics $5  0  SUPER SPECIAL EXABYTE EXB8200 8MM DAT $59 $u.s.!  adaptek 1522 scsi controller $10@!  adaptek 1542 scsi controller $15N"  future domain scsi controller $106 exabyte exb210 autochanger 600 gig !!!!!!!  $1900 u.s. dlt 20 gig               $350I dlt 30 gig $450  dlt loader 280 gig $4000 hp 35470 4 gig 4mm dat $999 150 meg archive, wangtek (5150) $25         case $5 extra 4 archive 150e, archive 2525s ,archive 4320nt,archive  4324np,archive 4350xtl conner ctd8000e-sc( hp c1553 dd3 4mm autoloader $299 96 gig  emerald vas026 9000h exabyte ex4200cC2 exabyte exb8500 8mm $129, exabyte exb8205 8mm $149 exabyte exb8205xle 8mm $169e# exabyte exb8505xls 8mm 14 gig $399 e? exabyte exb10-chs 8mm 10 tape autochanger , exabyte exb10-chse o hp 1300s       $99 hp model 35470 $99 2 gig 4 mmo hp model c1504 $299S9 legacy 500s $50, legacy 525s $50, legacy 2000s $99 2 gig e7 legacy 2200d 4mm 2 gig $59, legacy 4000d 4mm 4 gig $99,s legacy 8000d 4mm 8 gig $199n sony sdt 500* seagate ctl 96gs 96 gig 4 tape autochanger	 trimm da5l tecmar datavault 4000 ! wangdat 3200, wangtek 6130 hs $99    external enclosure $8M qualstar 6250 9 track $480
 dec tu81 $400o 6250 tapes New $5 Used $1P 8mm 5 gig tapes used $3i: 3480 tapes new $3 used $1  20,000 NEW ONES IN STOCK !!!!!! 6525 tapes new $3 used $1d tk50 tapes new $3 used $1   : call 514-744-9665        we accept amex call 514-744-9665  514-744-9665  @ Note I have 30,000 sq. ft of computer surplus our list of our HP@ stuff is incomplete and always changing.  On some of ithe items  above1@ we have as many as 300 in stock.  If you wish to have a list of  ourF, non HP stuff check call 514-744-9665 or call6 A1 Vente Ordinateur at 514-488-8299 .  We accept AMEX.> ---------->For any additional information and dealer specials ( please call 514-744-9665 -- do not emailA   Computer SUPERSTORE at 50 Stinson, Ville St. Laurent  A1 VENTE u
 ORDINATEUR?         W E   B E A T   A L L   M O N T R E A L   P R I C E S !e> 20,000 SQ FT of stock item up to 80% off     514-744-9665 fax  514-488-8829@          COMMERCIAL COMPUTER EQUIMENT SPECIALISTS  --- DEC WYSE  IBM HP9  terminals  - dat - lasers +laser parts - line printers- 0
 networking  > 20,000 SQ FT of stock item up to 80% off     514-744-9665 fax  514-488-88297                   W E----- A C C E P T----------A M E X.  ?  eg.  -HP laser $59      NEC 4 meg postscript laser  $139   20 . INCH SVGA $199@       -300 MMX $59  pentium board $19 OKI MICROLINE $49 Fujitsu 
 dl1100 $29=       -WYSE ibm DEC qume HP terminals from $75 (over 5000 in   stock)@       -color tektronix $390 ($4000 REG)  QMS color $390 8mm dat  $89 >       -compaq pagemarq 20, 20 ppm , postscript 800x400 dpi, 3  traysCA         winner 1994 desktop publishing laser $550 fujitsu dl2300   $39   8         WE ARE QUEBEC'S LARGEST COMPUTER SURPLUS COMPANY@ WE PROCESS 350 PALLETTES (SKIDS) OF COMPUTER EQUIPMENT PER MONTH  ; COMMERCIAL EQUIPMENT------------UP TO 80% off ---OVER 5000   TERMINALS in STOCK> epson lq570 $90 reg $299  epson lq1170 $95 reg. $399  fujitsu 
 dl3400 $79A fujitsu dl5600 $149 fujitsu dl4400 $129 APC UPS $70 STAR reciept 0 printer $79 < DEC HP GENICOM IBM FUJITSU EXABYTE PRINTRONICS LEXMARK WYSE  COMTERM TELEX OKI.  ? REPAIRS -----> laser, monitor, printer and system repairs.  HP .
 Fusers $59: WE PAY CASH FOR COMPUTER EQUIPMENT DEAD OR ALIVE.  We buy  computer scrap.   > LASERS ---> OVER 1000 LASERS IN STOCK - LOTS OF SPARE PARTS -  TRAYS0>             HP datasouth DEC oki LEXMARK ibm GENICOM qms APPLE
 NEW ARRIVALS:.    5 2000 matrox cards 4 meg $19  (millenium and mystique)0 500 3com 3c509 cisco 2502 20 units % cisco ws-x3001 $500 u.s. (new in box).
 cisco igs 
 cisco lgs < ascend mx-2t1    p/n 0700-0180-001 rev e   (options isdn nx  rs-366)0)     	max-2csu-tm  p/n 0700-0084-001 rev a0% 	max-6pmhp    p/n 0700-0085-001 rev a0' 	mx-sl-6pm-ptm  p/n 0800-0195-002 rev a0( 	max-sl-2pmhp    p/n 0700-0082-001 rev a? intel es500mfx $380 new in box  2 port 100base-fx module f/500 1
 series switch ( here is the baynetworks/nortel products.  0   Model 5110 Supervisory Module     Model 5001 950W AC Power Supply   . Part# AD1004004 Model 5308PS 24-Port 10BASE-T     @  Part# CX1004019 48 Bay DSP Modem Upgrade Kit for North America  (T1).h   7  We have 14 skids of current model cabletron networking <  equipment.  List price of about 10,000,000 75% off of list  price.  All is 8?  the MMAC line there is ethernet , tokenring fibreoptic , rj45 t	 and isdn.S  some part numbers are:   S  irm  irm3 (over 500 units )N  fdmmim1  esxmimA  emme 
  tprmim-22  emm-e6a
  fdcmim-08  efdmimlB  sehi 34 24 port ten base t with lanview rs232 console input (125  units)  tpmim-22 (over 500 units)  tpmim 34 (over 500 units)  fot-f2 fibre optic tranceiver(  tp-4 rj45 transceiver  (over 500 units))  tpt fj45 tranceiver     (over 500 units)t    sun sparc 4, 5 , 10, 20  @ still have dlt7000 for as400 70 gig black faceplate - with book  and 12 tapes $1600 have dlt 15/30 $700 3 have 4 mm and 8mm(exabyte 8505xl ) with blue button3@ interesting sparc which has about 16 cpu's on 2 cpu boards with  17 and 20 inch trintrons  # 	sparc station 20 mp p/n600-3327-032 		sunos release 5.5  		seagate st5660n  650 meg scsie  		seagate st31200wc 1.2 gig scsi 		64 meg ram! 		sun video capture card p/n 3894  		2 units p/n 5012708041139a" 		100 base t network card p/n 5294= 5 sgi (silicon graphics) xs 4000 and xs 24 including 17 inch r trinitorns and 1 20 inch    ;         ms-283 bar code gun (200 units) fits termial or pc.a         cisco 2000         cisco 3000>         3 inch ccd scanner + decoder 270 units  (time keeping  system inc)_3         sun sparc 5 128 meg 2 gig 20 inch trinitront:         sun ultra enterprise 2  2 4.5 gig 256 meg 20 inch  trinitron $5k u.s.         annex cm1009e47          at&t comsphere 3000e9         bay networks cm1001070  mlb 360-084-901 option 1 t 360-072-936 rev a5,                    36 port remote annex 4000A         bay networks cv1001018  advanced remote node 100 base fx d  arn4         bay networks cv0011013  token ring expansion@         bay networks 450-1sr mda media dependent adapter module  100 base sxA)         bay networks ae1001005 p/n 111375 B             bay networks an flash card corporate suite p/n 112639  rev aw)         bay networks ae1001010 p/n 113359eB         bay networks db1501e16   (MARLIN) ISDN ROUTER two channel          bay networks model 800         memotec da3214         memotec netaccess 900s         motorola mp router 6520m         synoptics 3395a          synoptics 3308ba         synoptics 3313sa         teleglobe dm1000         teleglobe dm2200         teleglobe MP 9000o         uds ddsmr64          uds ddsmrs         xylogics clam na/d.         xylogics 4002-pn1  (REMOTE ANNEX 4000)  	tec b-602-gs20-us label printer           hp9000 800  f10          a2367a         64 meg         1 gig            ncr 3000         20x pentium 60         96 meg         1.2gig           ncr 3000         s40f         2x pentium 166         4 x 4 gign         256 meg(           ncr 3000         s40)         2x pentium 166         3 x 4 gigh         512 megs           ncr 3455         2x pentium 166         1x 1gig"         2x 2gig"         exabyte exb8200 tape  ?         ncr 3430sales@conticomp.com             Price List  A1 5 Vente Ordinateur< List is partial if you don't see it ask for it we can get it    = Note: this list is very incomplete and covers about 5% of ourg= stock and is always changing.  The new list may be downloadedt6 from call 514-744-9665.  We have 30,000 square feet of> computer equipment at 50 stinson ville st. laurent (montreal).A phone number is 514-744-9665 fax is 514-488-8829.  We also have a  store at 5177 decarie.  @ dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec  dec vax vax @ dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec  dec vax vax:  3            Digital Equipment - All prices in U.S. $    New arrivals: vax 4105ao               rz27 diske               128 meg                cd rom   	      microvax 3100 90  Networking:   decnis 600# 	      dex2r-z routeabout access ew # 	      dex2r-m routeabout access ew $ 	      dez8r-p routeabout central ew 	      dsrvh-n decserver 90m 	      h7082-88 2               decserver 700 $475   8 port dsrvw-aa 			    $690  16 port dsrvw-ca A               decserver 550 dsrvs-c2b03 with multiple cxy08 cards '               pmad-a   p/n 54-19874-01 t&               pmaz    p/n 54-19876-01 2               rf-delni -aa (fibre optic output)   5               decrepeater 90T   detmr-m   $150 ea    i5               decrepeater 90T+  detmr-n   $150 ea    ..               decserver 90l+   dsrvg-ma   $225)               decbridge 90+    dewgb-m   V)               dehub 90 ax               1                dehua-nb7               DESPR-AA,PC100-B,DECROUTER 250,LANBRIDGE   150,LANBRIDGE 100 ;               DEC200 NICS, pm37b-by, delni-ba, ab74100b7c, 0 dsrva-aa,dempr-aa19               h7317,pm20b-ag, dsrvb-aa,lanbridge debet-acMA               70-19062-01, 70-31353-01, devp03, dvrvb-b, demsa-aao               decserver 300"               vxt2000a"               ba350 scsi enclosure               dsrvb-ae               lxy12I=               decserver 100,decserver 200dl, decserver 200md,t$               decserver 300 dsrvf-baA               dsrvf-b,rf-vx20a-m9, di-31cp1-a cpu ka41,lanbridge " 150O7               P/N DEC 7876-AA  dehub ax power supply    @               DSRVB-B,DSRVB-A, DEC REPEATER 350 ,P/N DERFVS240A  20  (               DESPR-AA THINWIRE REPEATERA               DECMUX 300 P/N DM308-a,MUX SERVER 310 P/N DSRZC-B  _                        <3               MUXSERVER 300 P/N DSR2C-A            T      U  < TERMINALS: VT220,VT320,VT330,vt330+,vt340,vt340+,vt420 $99,  vt510, vt520      @      VRM17-AA VRT19-DA VRT19-HA VR241-A VR299 VR290-DA have 200  spare lk450,   PRINTERS: LA50 ); $50,LA70,la75$70,la75s-a2$110,la100$70,la210$99,la324 $300,,B           la424 $550,lno3$50,lno3+$75,DECWRITER III $170, RFLAIDR  $200,(.           lp27 $300, lp37,LQP45,lgo1,lg02,lg31   DRIVES      : 7 rd53,rd54,tz30,tk50,tk70,tu81,tu81+,tz85,tz86,ra60,ra90 7               ese20-ba   - 120mb ram memory drives  4     >               ra650-xa   - 5 1.2 gig sdi drives 1 250 meg ra70#               ra600  2 1.2 gig ra70.&               h7142 power supplies 6  =               micro technolory inc. stingray  has 4 rackmount ;                  stingray hard drive controllers 1 2.1 gig e seagate barracuda:)                  10 hard drive enclosures 4               hsc50  2    sdi disk drive controllers   SYSTEMS:         vaxstation 4000 60                 vx46k-ad                 cpu ka46                 rz 25e1                 video card 5020364-01 d3  5420366s3                 ram 2 pieces of 5419103  5019079-01e           vaxstation 4000 60                 vx46k-ad                 cpu ka46$                 tzk10-aa tape drive %                 2 hard drives  rz 25ee1                 video card 5020364-01 d3  5420365e3                 ram 2 pieces of 5419145  5019144-01u             microvax 3100 80                 tz30!                 board 54-20652-01e                  rz26e hard drive           microvax 3100 40                 tz30                 54-20654-01 h02 "                 rz 26e hard drive )                 on onboard ram no modulesp           microvax 3100 30                 tz30!                 board 54-20654-01i)                 on onboard ram no modules            microvax 3100                  dj31esa-a-a01                  tz30                 54-18858-01d                 50-18905-01w                 54-18905-01u                 501982901k                 rz24-e           microvax 4000 600i                 tk709                 128 meg ram  ( 2 units l4002aa  ms690-ca)e                 kfqsa                  kzqsa                  no hard driveh                          microvax 4000f                 6600r-b2                 m9047a                 h7868-a                  desqa-sk                 ms650-bf                 tk70 sfu                 tk70                            dec 3000 400                 pe401-cb                 rz26                 cpu kn15-ba,                 cd rom                 vid 50-21142-01c*                 ram 8 pieces of 5421139cl   A               vaxstation 8 meg ram modules mso2  p/n 54-16812-01 9  120                 vax 4000-100a                vt1300 50l               decsystem 5500&                  2200h-b9 series ba400                  ms220-bap                  m7639                  kn220 m7637                  kn220 m7638&                  2 rf72, tlz04 (dat) ,?               vax 4000 300,vax 4000 200,microvax 3800,microvax . 3400               microvax 3100 =      VAXSTATION 4000/VLC 24 MEG 20 INCH TRINITRON RZ23L HARD O DRIVE $     4      VAXSTATION 3100 M38 2 SCSI HARD DRIVES 20 INCH  TRINITRON......$          VAXSTATION 2000      decstation 2100 pm10a-ba 7      DS5000-200 ,ds500--125,ds5000-240,MICROVAX II         MISC ----8      TK50 MEDIA(new)$3 used $1                          0      DEC 16 BIT ETHERNET $5                     1      DEC 8 BIT PDA508 $3                                DEC DESTA                 i  A Note I have 20,000 sq. ft of computer surplus our list of digital ? stuff is incomplete and always changing.  If you wish to have ad@ list of our non digital stuff send me email at call 514-744-96654 or call A1 Vente Ordinateur at 514-744-9665 or check  our webpage at call 514-744-9665@ dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec  dec vax vaxA@ dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec dec  dec vax vax7      : We will beat any ad price on  ibm equipment   prices u.s $   SYSTEMS:(         powerstation 220  type 7011     !         2.5 gig seagate barracuda          32 meg  ;         powerstation 220  type 7011       50 units in stock          500 meg          32 meg  "         powerstation 340 type 7012!         2 scsi drives p/n 55f9915b&         scsi bus extension fru 00g2721         token ring 74f8653<         16 pieces of 4 meg 72 pin (on 2 cards 8 pieces each)         color card fru 71f12230                processor card fru 00g3149 cpu 37  "         powerstation 370 type 7012!         2 scsi drives p/n 75g3628 &         scsi bus extension fru 00g2721         token ring 74f8653         64 meg  "         processor card fru 51g9441           powerstation 410           2 gig scsi drive&         scsi bus extension fru 00g2721         token ring 74f8653         64 meg b#         color video fru 88g2749 609G         token ring fru 7280422           powerstation 320           XSTATION 150 15 UNITSE         XSTATION 120 100 UNITS) 3com 3c319 rj45 and db9 isa 16  130 units3? ibm auto 16/4 fru 9873456 rj45       approximately 200 units   P isa 16A olicom 00055797-12671-73c-opin  fcc id an055h6800   rj45 and db9    isa 16X5 dca 014253 rev a 500 units rj45 and db9 mca and isa  X2 smc 8115t c d2 4996  400 units rj45 and db9 isa 16; madge smart at ringnode 152-034-04   152-028-14  100 units H# intel rj45 and db9 isa 16 200 unitsH card swiper 4717 3 ibm 16/4 short card  ibm 5250 8 bit M@ hp jetdirect j2555-60003  db9 rj45  used to connect hp laser to 	 tokenring2 hp jetdirect j2373-60001  db9  R@ hp jetdirect ex j2383  db9 rj45 external unit with power supply 9 proteon 1392+  16 bit isa tokenring   3000   in stock $10e3 ibm powerstation 320h 32 meg 16 ports for terminalsw< ibm sierra xterminal model 120 8 megs ram p/n 950-000024-000) rs/6000 34h 64 meg 1.2 gig , 400 meg $950  terminal ibm 3151 $175% terminal ibm 3192,3196,3197,3471,3472m4 terminal ibm 3472 color (same tube /flyback) as 3477& terminal ibm 3477, 5085-1, 5272,3178c, terminal ibm p/n 83x7944  color4 controller ibm 13 3174-1r,3174-1l,3174-11r,3174-51r,3174-61r,3174-91r  mau ibm 3299 2 8 port coax   dA ups netherlands mydrecht 31-297-2313-22  jan velthus hdot matrix D9  ibm 5242,4224  $200,4230,4234,4324,3812 2,3287, 5210 go2e- ibm 8228 10 port token ring p/n 6091014  50  6	 ibm irma2r lexmark 4109, 4029, 4039 proteon ; 7202,33g4389,6091014,4459,4869-009,4869,3174-g2454,3274-41d 9 5362,3268 2,4869-002,4869,3299-2,7010,3044-d02,9404 as400a 23-p2899,3820,2380,2381,33g4389a madge token ring cards all models of ps/2 a mca network cards  16/4 . mca adaptek scsi cards  also future domain $20" assorted other microchannel cards  token ring cables = proteon cnx 500 and cnx 600 routers dual ethernet token ring r modelw  = note: this list is very incomplete and covers about 5% of our5= stock and is always changing.  the new list may be downloadedd6 from call 514-744-9665.  we have 30,000 square feet of computer equipment.bA Phone number is 514-744-9665 fax is 514-488-8829 and yes we take x amex.x    = We will beat any ad price  printers (all prices u.s. dollars)x   lasers ------? toshiba 2 meg, 3 tray, 12ppm, hp emm., env feeder  (reg $5000) l $149 hp laserjet 1   3 4ppm............................................$890 digital : ln034ppm...............................................$99 kyocera 1 meg, hp 1 emm..........................................$125  panasonic 1.5 meg 8ppm, 2 ) tray.................................$180g# color tecktronic 4693b rgb laser 8 e  meg.........................$350 color tecktronic phaser ii 4 2& meg...............................$550 epson = epl6000..................................................$150 % xerox 4045 2 meg ram + photocopier   n (reg.$8000)...............$150 tektronix 4611 tektronix 4698 epson action laser ii6$ okidata ml 193, 2293, 3220, 321, 393    
 nec lc 890 kyocera f3000a
 xerox 4213
 xerox 4045 comterm 6214-404 hp 2235b4 lasermaster 1200 a655 1200 dpi 60 meg hd 8 meg 11x17   inkjet ------2 kodak diconix inkjet portable - runs on batteries  oradapter....$39 hp n? thinkjet....................................................$39a hp d? deskjet.....................................................$595 hp paintjetcolor continous S' feed................................$59t* hp paintjet xl  - takes wide paper  (reg.  $3000)...............$129  kodak 300w - takes wide * paper..................................$49 epson sq2500 takes wide paper $ ................................$149  
 dot matrix
 ---------- epson lq570  lq 570 $100 epson fxl070 fx 1070 $100p epson lq1170 lq 1170 $1350 epson 9 pin dot 2 matrix.........................................$19 ibm color dot 4 matrix...........................................$292 epson lq2500 color - computerized multilayer form  (reg$1099)...$89 fujitsu dx2200 color dot  ) matrix................................$35  fujitsu dl2300  2 ...............................................$50 fujitsu dl3400  2 ...............................................$60 fujitsu ; dl4400.................................................$1200 fujitsu ; dl5600.................................................$150i toshiba p341, p351  . ...........................................$59 mannesmann tally mt330 P* .......................................$95 amnnesmann tllt 4 mt390..........................................$call mannesmann tally p1 mt86..........................................$49  nec p9 color dot matrix * commercial.............................$49 printronics p300, p600 e+ .......................................$395I
 genicom 3210 K4 .................................................$80. genicom 3820 high speed commercial dot matrix  ...............$249 . genicom 3840 high speed commercial dot matrix  ...............$449S& genicom 4410xt, genicom 4410, genicom  4490....................$call  genicom 1010, 1020tC okidata : 82,ml182,ml320,ml321,ml380,ml395,ml393+,ml395,ml591,ml24106 hp ruggedwriter high speed commercial dot matrix (reg 
 $2000)...$199 , kyocera fs3500a includes 2 pf-5 feeders $500= fujitsu dl2400, 5600 and many genicom, datasouth, mannesmann v tally, i7 printronics and others are available call 514-744-9665 0 514-744-9665A we will beat any ad price     color lasers      call 514-744-96650@                                                     514-744-9665  : tecktronic phaser iipx 4694 px with serial, parallel, scsi  tecktronic phaser cp    parallel4 qms colorscript 100 model 10    serial parallel scsi6 qms ps 2210 balck and white 11x17 serial parralel scsi  * 50 tektronix toners reordr no. 016-0898-001 qmd colorscript 100 color toners 4 color  $70 u.s 6 part number 1730451-013                      $70 u.s.2  A make offers on the items that interest you the best one takes it.l? also i have extra toners available for these machines for sale.i  9 we will beat any ad price   mac note the prices in u.s. $                              ---N        mac laserwriter iint $99r          mac laserwriter      $59,         nec postscript laser , 4 meg ram $69?         hp paintjet 300  wide carriage color postscript inkjet t $793         mac mono monitor $15.         20 inch trinitron monitor for mac $3991         20 mono monitor for mac radius tpd/19 $69u@         nec multisynch gsiia svga mono work with mac and ibm $39         radius pivot $145i         scsi syquest 88 meg $45e/         scsi bernouli 20 meg with enclosure $20l/         scsi bernouli 90 meg with enclosure $35 /         500 meg scsi external tape (legacy) $25n$         540 meg scsi hard drives $60&         scsi enclosures used       $19    7  over 30,000 sq ft of inventory check our webpage call c 514-744-9665  ? we will beat any ad price        lan stuff    call 514-744-9665a<                                                 514-744-9665  8 the first 5 models on this page are current model items.> note:  i have a tech data and ingram catalog too. i am willing< to give amazing deals on these items.  30,000 sq ft of stock6 send me email for items you want  that are not listed/
 3com 3c509 3480 TAPES NEW TENEX BRAND $30% QUALSTAR  6250 TAPE DRIVE (SCSI) $350e chipcom 5006c - 5000m-ctl                  5104m-f1b.> lan/wan optimizer series 5000 model 5010l p/n acx067g110001l-r' gandalf premier lanline 5220 p/n 7707z1  gandalf mux 2000 8 port  40    gandalf mux 2000 16 port  10   gandalf mmux 2000 8 port 10  r gandalf swith mux   5  m3 proteon cnx 500 router  3  , cnx 600 router  1 unit0> newbridge 1032 mainstreet p/n 90-0533-01 channel banks 32 port newbridge 1082 8 portm gandalf starmaster4 lots of gandalf ldm and lds series modems  lds120a,  lds120e,ldm309a, ldm409a a ibm 3174-11r ibm 3174-61r ibm 3174-91r hundreds of ibm token ring hubs1) hundreds of ibm and proteon network cardsA intel satisfaction modemse= -takes a picture from video input and puts it on photographic < bicc datanetworks thin ethernet repeater model # 1121-0 20  / color epson lq2550 highspeed  ($1800 list) $199a color nec p9 high speed $120 comterm c6274-2010 dec delni-aa	 dec rrd402 dg 6351n (server?)  ! dg 1348 as tape drive with wheels  dg mv4000 dc digiboard 8 port isa bus  $150 digiboard digichannel c/com-16% digital rflaidr looks like genicom c1p disk mini digital  rl02  docking station compaq 2684  docking station nec op-560-4701 2 docking station texas instruments 2581447-0041  c2+ docking station toshiba deskstation ii 10 u  dot matrix color nec p9xl6 dot matrix oki 321 d2 ! dot matrixa centronics 359pc whls 2 dot matrixa centronics linwriter 400/800 wheels b3 dot matrixa dg 6494  dot matrixa dg 6594 c1' dot matrixa hp ruggedwriter       3u c3  dot matrixa okidata 2410 $195 " dot matrixa printronics 600 wheels! dotmatrix  mannesman tally 86 10ui( dotmatrixa dataproducts tcg 202   10u a2 dotmatrixa datasouth ds220 10u  dotmatrixa datasout ds180  20 u  dotmatrixa dg 6594  c1 dotmatrixa genicom 3210 a2 dotmatrixa hp 2563c wheels b3e dotmatrixa hp 2631g d3 dotmatrixa hp2563a  d3$ dotmatrixa mannesmann tally mt330 c1 dotmatrixa oki 2410 ! dotmatrixac fujitsu dl2600 20u c1e. dysan silver 6250 tape  new boxes of 10 tapes  hp 7958W inkjet hp paintjet xl  intecolor 20' eo1910-20e8 intellicom longlink parralel extender 2   shrink wrapped0 intergraph interpro125 workstation pn fd2sp216f4@ intergraph interpro32c workstation with 20 color monitor scsi hd	 340 6 megA laptop expansion toshiba muc1i$ laser color, tecktronics 4693rgb  2u$ laser ibm 4019, laser nf          4u laser kyocera f2010 1 meg 20u $ laser postscript, qms ps820 turbo 2u mannesman tally 86  2o   $90? modem gandalf lds 100, lds120,lds120e, lds300, lds 309a, lds289b9 modem gandalf lds 120, lds 125, mlds, ld140,pacx2000, lds8 modem gandalf lds 300r modem gandalf lds 389s modem motorola cdm264 modemd# monitor 20 inch ikegami  c/dm-2010a , monitor 20 inch monochrome dg model 6486  b1 monitor 20' apollo 008399 5u b1t  monitor radius tpd19 20 inch mac nec lc890 opc 40   $95 lattisnet 2510
 lattisnet 102  lattisnet 3000 telex 87 wang 75lis12en harris l191-s1
 dest pcsan200  texas instrument silent 7001 allied telesis centrecom 3008r
 wang 4230ep-tg sytek 20/100 npi 521  tecmar qt60e memorex 90-0308-001  gcc 50s  general datacom de-1
 codex 2600 puredata pdc520a puredata pdc608a puredata pdc620a comterm c6274-201E telex 076 controller questronics cpa172 ast&t 6386 wgs intergraph 340 datability vcp1000 css 486te-33 consultronics fdm-30 microtel bb5007-ca8575" control data corporation cyber 910 sun 3861-250 olivetti lsx5020 olivetti lsx5025 wnag bns386r memorex telex 1374-51r% aries iii image analysis system dipixo
 telebit t2500  baytech printer controller
 develcon 7330  byteway 2000 cimterm c6274-201d seikosha sbp-10ait allied telesis 5000r allied telesis 3025  allied telesis 3024v allied telesis 3008, 3008sll data general mv 12000  memorex telex 2062 analogic 68 
 codex 6006 telenet tp3/11-3025S datawatch dwx86C canstar ncu 200-00-020 datasouth performax a600 dataproducts bp 2000 dataproducts bp 1500 dataproducts dp 1000 gandalf access server pcm2022                        npm2021 &                       lds2123e  <----4                       asm20812&                       gcm2091   <----3                       sgm2094      motorola uds model 201b rm16m mR
 adic 530/h allied telesis centre com 470N local data interlynx 3287$ fifth generation systems lc-01 penril 2332-01 r212a  ostrocom e299 squeezplexor gandalf minimau1# synoptics lattisnet 102 powersupply$$                     408 fault status ncr 3000 canstar fibre optic hub0 otc 2160  cisco igs-r multiprotocal router qms csc-100  castelle lanpress  95054 honeywell hds2 3com 3c1351-> 3com linkbuilder ecs10 type 1200-1 with 12 port utp cards and  management card 
 motorola 60057 ods 296  telenet tp3/11-3025  delta data 8700t
 canon cj10  r        a  o                 s  g      ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:52:12 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>5J Subject: Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire)( Message-ID: <8ir9tj$6mh$1@pyrite.mv.net>  I Thanks for chiming in.  My acquaintance with database details is somewhat4J sketchy and entirely theoretical, so input from people who have been there and done that is preferable.   - bill  > Hipenbecker, Doug <Hipenbecker.Doug@mbco.com> wrote in message? news:DD11CB6FEB21D41184510004ACA3715316395F@mbsus228.mbc.com...dD > Speaking as a DBA, I can attest to the *necessity* of data & indexH > partitioning for large databases (data warehouses and datamarts).  TheB > growth of data is exploding.  Data and index partitioning speeds
 retrieval,1 > reduces contention, and balances resource load.4 > K > Oracle RDB does data & index partitioning since V4.  Oracle borrowed thisoB > from RDB and put into Oracle8 (Oracle purchased RDB).  The indexG > partitioning is directly tied to the data partitioning scheme and not E > independent.  DB2/UDB(NT/Unix) has data but not index partitioning.z DB2/MVS E > has index partitioning as well.  DB2 has the interesting feature of4 allowingG > you to randomly (hash keys) spread your data across multiple database4
 > containers.  > E > It is difficult in many situations to find a static partition basis  column, J > but when it's there (plant_code or production_line) its the best kind ofI > partitioning since no ongoing maintenance of the partitioning scheme is 	 > needed.  > A > However, in almost all cases with the historical nature of data-I > warehouses/datamarts, the partition basis is date (such as year/month). L > This requires a carefully thought out ongoing partitioning update strategyH > for each new year/month.  This is what DBAs don't like, however, it isJ > difficult to avoid having partitioning based on date...especially with aB > large data warehouse and no other reasonable partitioning basis. >1 > Doug Hipenbecker > Miller Brewing Co. >  > -----Original Message-----. > From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@foo.mv.com]) > Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 12:54 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com B > Subject: Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on > Wildfire)0 >x >06 > Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote in messageF > news:910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284439@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com...	 > > Bill,  > > K > > >>> As I said, concurrent disk-sharing per se is markedly superior only  inH > > addressing relatively rare scaling issues that resist efficient data > > partitioning.>>> > > L > > Would you not say that data partitioning is extremely tough to do unless > you1H > > have very experienced DBA's or application resources that understand whatE > > the production loads are going to be ie. the marketing folks weref accurate, > > in their forcast of the expected loads ? >l > I would say "It depends."y >wL > First, if you're talking databases, only Oracle Parallel Server and DB2 onD > IBM's Parallel Sysplex even give you the *option* of avoiding dataL > partitioning to accommodate (or plan for) loads exceeding the capabilitiesD > of a single database (SMP) node - and even they still benefit fromL > partitioning.  So the range of situations in which, say, OPS allows you toF > avoid data partitioning when non-shared-disk approaches would not is limited K > to those where the database load exceeds that supportable by a single SMPeG > node but does not exceed that at which the unpartitioned cluster lock J > management overhead becomes excessive (and you really ought to partitionL > OPS's data to reduce it).  Given the extremely respectable capabilities ofI > single SMP nodes these days, the narrowness of that range of situations E > justifies the characterization of 'relatively rare', in my opinion.3 >tK > Second, much data is trivially partitionable, whether in a database or in0 a7K > file system (where randomly distributing users and other entities such as5G > development groups across partitions is a good start).  And databasescL > provide utilities that can ease the process even for newbies (and identifyE > bad choices if they make them).  So it's often standard practice to L > pre-partition easily-partitioned data even in single-node environments, toK > make it easy to spread it out (without having to shuffle it:  just change38 > the ownership of its storage) if the need ever arises. >0 > >-D > > What happens when the loads increase dramatically above what was expected > ?i >rF > In the case of a file system (where presumably little automated helpH > exists), you assign new users to storage on new nodes that you add, or move@ > some existing users' data to new nodes that you add (if you'veG > pre-partitioned as described above, just move some storage to the new L > nodes).  My guess would be that typical increases in file systems are moreD > gradual than the dramatic fluctuations things like Internet server	 databasesn4 > can see, so such mechanisms may be quite adequate. > D > > Does the database / application not have to be re-partitioned to > re-balance
 > > the load?m >1K > Yes, and at least some databases largely automate this process.  DB2, for4K > example, allows one to break up relations based on key ranges or based on3G > hash functions that distribute the relation across a specified set ofm nodes,C > and my vague recollection is that other platforms provide similarrJ > facilities.  In the case of hashed distribution, I think I remember that DB2iH > uses a fixed number (4096) of hash targets, which are then distributedH > across the specified set of nodes:  this makes it easy to move some of themJ > to new nodes to relieve hot spots or help spread out generally-increased > activity.2 >2E >   Does this not mean the application and database are offline untile= > > such time as all of this repartitioning has taken place ?c >dI > I happen to remember that DB2 can do it on line (e.g., redistribute via H > hashing over a larger set of nodes), but don't know for sure for other > platforms. >w >  Of course, beforeK > > you can re-partition the data, backups need to be done, so that adds tot > thel > > outage.w >aF > I think you're 'way out of date in your thinking:  modern relational6 > databases allow most restructuring to occur on line. >9 > >yJ > > In a 24x7 shop, is database / application re-partitioning not a really bigl? > > thing that IT shops want to avoid at all costs if they can?e >fD > If that were true, they'd use nothing but OPS (which still doesn'tH > completely avoid the problem, but does allow more leeway in addressing it).L > Since OPS represents a small percentage of Oracle installations, let aloneI > total database installations, I'd say your perception of the problem is. > greatly exaggerated. >4 > - bill >r > >  > > Regards, > >. > > Kerry Main > > Senior Consultant, > > Compaq Canada. > > Professional Servicesp > > Voice : 613-592-4660 > > FAX   : 819-772-7036! > > Email : kerry.main@compaq.comr >+ >o >o >r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 18:30:07 -0400 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> J Subject: RE: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire)J Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284446@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com>   Doug,-   Good feedback.  J After re-reading my reply, I can see how I was not clear enough in raising3 my original concerns about "partitioned databases".d  L I certainly did not mean that databases themselved should not be partitionedF (Rdb has been a multi-file database for over a decade), but rather theK issues that arise in a shared nothing architecture such as NT and some UNIXsJ architectures, where the partioning is not only at the database level, but also at the server level.   / Let me expand and see if you agree (or not) :-)q  E With Rdb, you can partition the database into different files on many K different drives to balance the load. That is goodness. Now when you have aoL cluster, the OpenVMS DLM co-ordinates the write activity so that it does notL matter how the load grows, as long as the HW can handle the locking traffic,J systems can be added (dynamically if required) to adjust to increasing CPU3 loads and each can participate in the load sharing.4  E Now, in a shared nothing cluster environment, each of those index and0K different partitions would be handled by a dedicated system "serving" those.F files to the end users. Obviously, a system could handle more than oneH partition, but which system handles which partitions needs to determinedJ before hand in the planning stages. Hence, my comment earlier on requiringI an good understanding of how the application will perform in a production. environment.  L Now, if my thinking is right (and please correct me if I am not),in a sharedB nothing architecture, when the load (cpu, memory?) on one of theseJ partitions becomes to great, that server (and application) will suffer bigL time performance issues. Now, other servers in the application could lots ofE spare cycles, but they can not help out that other server since it is & dedicated to serving those partitions.  L Assuming the max single HW config is already in place, the only remedy is toF re-partition the database and servers to move some of the load on thatJ server to another server to alleviate the load. Of course, one does not doH this without backups being done, so this whole process could result in a significant unplanned outage.t  B Perhaps I have misunderstood something here, but is this not a bigJ difference between shared everything and shared nothing disk architectures* when it comes to "partitioning" databases.   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant,
 Compaq Canadae Professional Servicesa Voice : 613-592-4660 FAX   : 819-772-7036 Email : kerry.main@compaq.coma       -----Original Message-----: From: Hipenbecker, Doug [mailto:Hipenbecker.Doug@MBCO.COM]' Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 10:11 AM. To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com @ Subject: RE: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on	 Wildfire)t    B Speaking as a DBA, I can attest to the *necessity* of data & indexF partitioning for large databases (data warehouses and datamarts).  TheK growth of data is exploding.  Data and index partitioning speeds retrieval, / reduces contention, and balances resource load.c  I Oracle RDB does data & index partitioning since V4.  Oracle borrowed thiss@ from RDB and put into Oracle8 (Oracle purchased RDB).  The indexE partitioning is directly tied to the data partitioning scheme and notsL independent.  DB2/UDB(NT/Unix) has data but not index partitioning.  DB2/MVSL has index partitioning as well.  DB2 has the interesting feature of allowingE you to randomly (hash keys) spread your data across multiple databasen containers.   K It is difficult in many situations to find a static partition basis column,vH but when it's there (plant_code or production_line) its the best kind ofG partitioning since no ongoing maintenance of the partitioning scheme isr needed.   ? However, in almost all cases with the historical nature of data G warehouses/datamarts, the partition basis is date (such as year/month). J This requires a carefully thought out ongoing partitioning update strategyF for each new year/month.  This is what DBAs don't like, however, it isH difficult to avoid having partitioning based on date...especially with a@ large data warehouse and no other reasonable partitioning basis.   Doug Hipenbecker Miller Brewing Co.   -----Original Message-----, From: Bill Todd [mailto:billtodd@foo.mv.com]' Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 12:54 AMd To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com @ Subject: Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on	 Wildfire)     4 Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote in messageD news:910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284439@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com... > Bill,g >0L > >>> As I said, concurrent disk-sharing per se is markedly superior only inF > addressing relatively rare scaling issues that resist efficient data > partitioning.>>> >oJ > Would you not say that data partitioning is extremely tough to do unless youdK > have very experienced DBA's or application resources that understand whattL > the production loads are going to be ie. the marketing folks were accurate* > in their forcast of the expected loads ?   I would say "It depends."0  J First, if you're talking databases, only Oracle Parallel Server and DB2 onB IBM's Parallel Sysplex even give you the *option* of avoiding dataJ partitioning to accommodate (or plan for) loads exceeding the capabilitiesB of a single database (SMP) node - and even they still benefit fromJ partitioning.  So the range of situations in which, say, OPS allows you toL avoid data partitioning when non-shared-disk approaches would not is limitedI to those where the database load exceeds that supportable by a single SMP0E node but does not exceed that at which the unpartitioned cluster lockpH management overhead becomes excessive (and you really ought to partitionJ OPS's data to reduce it).  Given the extremely respectable capabilities ofG single SMP nodes these days, the narrowness of that range of situationsuC justifies the characterization of 'relatively rare', in my opinion.o  K Second, much data is trivially partitionable, whether in a database or in aoI file system (where randomly distributing users and other entities such assE development groups across partitions is a good start).  And databases5J provide utilities that can ease the process even for newbies (and identifyC bad choices if they make them).  So it's often standard practice tonJ pre-partition easily-partitioned data even in single-node environments, toI make it easy to spread it out (without having to shuffle it:  just change46 the ownership of its storage) if the need ever arises.   >rK > What happens when the loads increase dramatically above what was expected  ?   D In the case of a file system (where presumably little automated helpK exists), you assign new users to storage on new nodes that you add, or move > some existing users' data to new nodes that you add (if you'veE pre-partitioned as described above, just move some storage to the new4J nodes).  My guess would be that typical increases in file systems are moreL gradual than the dramatic fluctuations things like Internet server databases2 can see, so such mechanisms may be quite adequate.  B > Does the database / application not have to be re-partitioned to
 re-balance > the load?   I Yes, and at least some databases largely automate this process.  DB2, foreI example, allows one to break up relations based on key ranges or based on-L hash functions that distribute the relation across a specified set of nodes,A and my vague recollection is that other platforms provide similarbL facilities.  In the case of hashed distribution, I think I remember that DB2F uses a fixed number (4096) of hash targets, which are then distributedK across the specified set of nodes:  this makes it easy to move some of themcH to new nodes to relieve hot spots or help spread out generally-increased	 activity.   C   Does this not mean the application and database are offline untill; > such time as all of this repartitioning has taken place ?o  G I happen to remember that DB2 can do it on line (e.g., redistribute viaaF hashing over a larger set of nodes), but don't know for sure for other
 platforms.    Of course, beforeI > you can re-partition the data, backups need to be done, so that adds to2 the-	 > outage.   D I think you're 'way out of date in your thinking:  modern relational4 databases allow most restructuring to occur on line.   > L > In a 24x7 shop, is database / application re-partitioning not a really big= > thing that IT shops want to avoid at all costs if they can?e  B If that were true, they'd use nothing but OPS (which still doesn'tK completely avoid the problem, but does allow more leeway in addressing it). J Since OPS represents a small percentage of Oracle installations, let aloneG total database installations, I'd say your perception of the problem isw greatly exaggerated.   - bill   >t
 > Regards, >a > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant, > Compaq Canada0 > Professional Services  > Voice : 613-592-4660 > FAX   : 819-772-7036 > Email : kerry.main@compaq.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 19:18:32 -04005' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>RJ Subject: Re: OpenVMS commentaries (was Re: Gartner commentary on Wildfire)( Message-ID: <8irifu$gdm$1@pyrite.mv.net>  K It was just pointed out to me privately that I forgot Rdb in the short listtK of databases supporting shared-disk configurations.  That doesn't alter thei7 sense of what I said, but it should have been included.a  L Since I've said what I thought needed saying, I hope Doug responds to what IF think are Kerry's continuing misconceptions about how modern databases handle partitioning.   - bill  0 Bill Todd <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message" news:8ipl9p$s0o$1@pyrite.mv.net...6 > Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote in messageF > news:910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284439@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com...	 > > Bill,  > >wK > > >>> As I said, concurrent disk-sharing per se is markedly superior only  inH > > addressing relatively rare scaling issues that resist efficient data > > partitioning.>>> > >)L > > Would you not say that data partitioning is extremely tough to do unless > youDH > > have very experienced DBA's or application resources that understand whatE > > the production loads are going to be ie. the marketing folks weref accurate, > > in their forcast of the expected loads ? >  > I would say "It depends."r >pL > First, if you're talking databases, only Oracle Parallel Server and DB2 onD > IBM's Parallel Sysplex even give you the *option* of avoiding dataL > partitioning to accommodate (or plan for) loads exceeding the capabilitiesD > of a single database (SMP) node - and even they still benefit fromL > partitioning.  So the range of situations in which, say, OPS allows you toF > avoid data partitioning when non-shared-disk approaches would not is limitedaK > to those where the database load exceeds that supportable by a single SMPhG > node but does not exceed that at which the unpartitioned cluster lock J > management overhead becomes excessive (and you really ought to partitionL > OPS's data to reduce it).  Given the extremely respectable capabilities ofI > single SMP nodes these days, the narrowness of that range of situationsrE > justifies the characterization of 'relatively rare', in my opinion.c > K > Second, much data is trivially partitionable, whether in a database or in. a.K > file system (where randomly distributing users and other entities such assG > development groups across partitions is a good start).  And databaseseL > provide utilities that can ease the process even for newbies (and identifyE > bad choices if they make them).  So it's often standard practice toaL > pre-partition easily-partitioned data even in single-node environments, toK > make it easy to spread it out (without having to shuffle it:  just change 8 > the ownership of its storage) if the need ever arises. >a > > D > > What happens when the loads increase dramatically above what was expected > ?  > F > In the case of a file system (where presumably little automated helpH > exists), you assign new users to storage on new nodes that you add, or move@ > some existing users' data to new nodes that you add (if you'veG > pre-partitioned as described above, just move some storage to the new L > nodes).  My guess would be that typical increases in file systems are moreD > gradual than the dramatic fluctuations things like Internet server	 databasesl4 > can see, so such mechanisms may be quite adequate. >rD > > Does the database / application not have to be re-partitioned to > re-balance
 > > the load?  >PK > Yes, and at least some databases largely automate this process.  DB2, foriK > example, allows one to break up relations based on key ranges or based ontG > hash functions that distribute the relation across a specified set ofe nodes,C > and my vague recollection is that other platforms provide similar J > facilities.  In the case of hashed distribution, I think I remember that DB2eH > uses a fixed number (4096) of hash targets, which are then distributedH > across the specified set of nodes:  this makes it easy to move some of themJ > to new nodes to relieve hot spots or help spread out generally-increased > activity.p >iE >   Does this not mean the application and database are offline untile= > > such time as all of this repartitioning has taken place ?w >sI > I happen to remember that DB2 can do it on line (e.g., redistribute viaeH > hashing over a larger set of nodes), but don't know for sure for other > platforms. >l >  Of course, beforeK > > you can re-partition the data, backups need to be done, so that adds to  > theh > > outage.r >oF > I think you're 'way out of date in your thinking:  modern relational6 > databases allow most restructuring to occur on line. >t > > J > > In a 24x7 shop, is database / application re-partitioning not a really bige? > > thing that IT shops want to avoid at all costs if they can?e >rD > If that were true, they'd use nothing but OPS (which still doesn'tH > completely avoid the problem, but does allow more leeway in addressing it).L > Since OPS represents a small percentage of Oracle installations, let aloneI > total database installations, I'd say your perception of the problem is  > greatly exaggerated. >  > - bill >o > >a > > Regards, > >l > > Kerry Main > > Senior Consultant, > > Compaq Canadac > > Professional Servicest > > Voice : 613-592-4660 > > FAX   : 819-772-7036! > > Email : kerry.main@compaq.comm >e >h >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 22:55:14 +0200t2 From: martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender)2 Subject: Re: OpenVMS UCX/FTP and Internet Explorer; Message-ID: <39512bb2.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>i  0 Mark D. Jilson (jilly@clarityconnect.com) wrote: : Randy Jung wrote:nB [IE not representing UCX FTP 'dir' data correctly - netscape does] :cI : The issues here are with IE not following the RFCs and Microsoft has no H : intention to fix IE to do so.  Beat on Microsoft or choose a different
 : FTP client.m  L That's not quite right. The fault is in the RFC not specifying the format ofL the output of a dir/ls/nlst FTP command - which eases the work of FTP serverL implementors: they just throw the output of a (platform-dependant) directoryJ listing command at the client. And some FTP clients know there's something like VMS, and some don't.   J Either use a VMS FTP server that generates unixoid ls output (like MGFTP),F or choose an FTP client that knows how to interpret a VMS dir listing.   cu,o   Martin --J One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer7 One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.deaN One OS to bring them all      |       http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/> And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:40:42 -0500s+ From: "Randy Jung" <rpjung@mb.sympatico.ca> 2 Subject: Re: OpenVMS UCX/FTP and Internet Explorer2 Message-ID: <IUe45.15559$Pz6.104147@news1.mts.net>   Hi,   : Thanks for the advice - I'll investigate the MGFTP option.  J As far as compliance with the RFC goes I took a quick look at RFC 0959 andH it looked to me there was no specification for the output of a directoryE command. Indeed, I didn't even find any reference to "DIRECTORY" as amH command and the "LIST" and "NAME LIST" commands did not specify anythingG about what the output looked like. Perhaps whose an expert on FTP couldaL point out where these commands are defined or where I missed the definition.  G Anyway does it matter? Internet Explorer has 60%+ of the browser market D share - I would think that VMS or Compaq TCP/IP Engineering would beI concerned about lack of compatibility with the predominent browser on the E market rather than slough it off as nor being compatible with an RFC.a   Cheers,    Randyi  ? "Martin Vorlaender" <martin@radiogaga.harz.de> wrote in message 5 news:39512bb2.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de...e2 > Mark D. Jilson (jilly@clarityconnect.com) wrote: > : Randy Jung wrote:eD > [IE not representing UCX FTP 'dir' data correctly - netscape does] > : K > : The issues here are with IE not following the RFCs and Microsoft has nohJ > : intention to fix IE to do so.  Beat on Microsoft or choose a different > : FTP client.o >hK > That's not quite right. The fault is in the RFC not specifying the formats ofG > the output of a dir/ls/nlst FTP command - which eases the work of FTP  serverD > implementors: they just throw the output of a (platform-dependant)	 directoryeL > listing command at the client. And some FTP clients know there's something > like VMS, and some don't.i >iL > Either use a VMS FTP server that generates unixoid ls output (like MGFTP),H > or choose an FTP client that knows how to interpret a VMS dir listing. >t > cu, 
 >   Martin > --L > One OS to rule them all       | Martin Vorlaender  |  VMS & WNT programmer9 > One OS to find them           | work: mv@pdv-systeme.det! > One OS to bring them all      | ( http://www.pdv-systeme.de/users/martinv/@ > And in the Darkness bind them.| home: martin@radiogaga.harz.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 23:03:58 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 2 Subject: Re: OpenVMS UCX/FTP and Internet Explorer, Message-ID: <39518217.98212106@videotron.ca>   Randy Jung wrote:uI > Anyway does it matter? Internet Explorer has 60%+ of the browser marketeF > share - I would think that VMS or Compaq TCP/IP Engineering would beK > concerned about lack of compatibility with the predominent browser on theeG > market rather than slough it off as nor being compatible with an RFC.a  L That would require that all command prodedures which end with .COM on VMS beH renamed, changing the behaviour of VMS just to comply to Microsoft's nonJ compliant implementation of HTTP. Microsoft's software makes no use of theK mime type and bases its decision on what to do with incoming data solely onjN the file's extention. There is a lot of aspects that Microsoft has insisted on not complying.  M Sites should just tell users to switch browsers because the fault is in theirs0 browser not complying to the internet standards.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 01:10:47 -0500 1 From: Jeff Schreiber <SCHREIBER@Eisner.DECUS.org>R2 Subject: Re: OpenVMS UCX/FTP and Internet Explorer1 Message-ID: <01JQVVQS6T2Q003G3C@Eisner.DECUS.org>l  + Randy Jung <rpjung@mb.symaptico.ca> writes:i >tK >As far as compliance with the RFC goes I took a quick look at RFC 0959 andiI >it looked to me there was no specification for the output of a directory F >command. Indeed, I didn't even find any reference to "DIRECTORY" as aI >command and the "LIST" and "NAME LIST" commands did not specify anythingiH >about what the output looked like. Perhaps whose an expert on FTP couldM >point out where these commands are defined or where I missed the definition.i >s  J     The original 959 authors cut a few corners, and there are a few placesH     where they skimped on the standard.  One easy example can be seen in     reference to pathname:         pathname  E          Pathname is defined to be the character string which must beuF          input to a file system by a user in order to identify a file.F          Pathname normally contains device and/or directory names, andF          file name specification.  FTP does not yet specify a standardD          pathname convention.  Each user must follow the file namingB          conventions of the file systems involved in the transfer.  D     Instead of designing a standard filenaming format, they opted toI     make it the user's responsibility to know the file naming conventions !     on each side of the transfer.   E     An interesting side effect of the "user's responsibility" is that.H     something like "ls -la" to a unix system will try to get a directoryJ     list of files named "-la", however unix systems saw that and sent backG     the output of an "ls -la".  So we had customers asking for "ls -la"tJ     support in VMS, because unix did it, therefore we were violating RFCs.  H     Anyway... onto the point at hand.  The important section is where it!     talks about the LIST command:g            LIST (LIST)  H             This command causes a list to be sent from the server to theH             passive DTP.  If the pathname specifies a directory or otherF             group of files, the server should transfer a list of filesD             in the specified directory.  If the pathname specifies aG             file then the server should send current information on thetH             file.  A null argument implies the user's current working orB             default directory.  The data transfer is over the dataD             connection in type ASCII or type EBCDIC.  (The user mustC             ensure that the TYPE is appropriately ASCII or EBCDIC).dG             Since the information on a file may vary widely from systemhH             to system, this information may be hard to use automaticallyB             in a program, but may be quite useful to a human user.  K     That last sentence is the "out" for the authors.  "this information may K     be hard to use automatically in a program".  Since Internet Explorer istJ     going to find the filenames, and make hyperlinks out of them, they are5     automatically using the information in a program.   I     So in general, it's Internet Explorer who is at fault, as the RFC hasv>     no standard for the formatting of the LIST command output.  E     To ramble with a little trivia, the way LIST works, is the server G     generates a file, and then puts that file back to the client, whereo0     the client displays it instead of stores it.  -                                         -Jeffr   --1 Jeff Schreiber,            Process Software Corp.v1 schreiber@mx.process.com   http://www.process.comy,       TCPware & MultiNet: Stronger than Ever   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:02:05 -0400 % From: "John Vottero" <John@mvpsi.com>s# Subject: Re: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS...o/ Message-ID: <sl20o1bve7f159@news.supernews.com>   < "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com> wrote in message, news:3950CAF7.54D97D4A@clarityconnect.com...I > What problems are these numbers creating??  Entry numbers do not have aaG > documented format so any software that thinks it knows the format andeH > relies on this is faulty and needs to be fixed. One should treat entryI > numbers as an opaque longword value and the sequencing of the job entry B > number is undocumented, and is subject to change without notice. >t  L People want to type/remember 3 or 4 digit entry numbers, not 7 digits.  It'sI the same whine that was heard when clusters first showed up and PIDs wheno& from a few hex digits to 8 hex digits.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 12:56:11 -0700r/ From: Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com>m# Subject: RE: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS...oM Message-ID: <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213019AEEBE@seantexch.unitedad.com>y   Thanks Hoff,  L    But if that is the case how come I don't see any jobs over 4 digits on myL VAX (V7.1). I am migrating to alpha (v7.1 also) will I see it then?   I haveJ been on Alpha's for years and have not noted any entry on 4 digits before,0 is there a setting that control the wrap number?I Still confused and shocked that I haven't seen this before if it has beene> around that long. And I have work on some very large clusters. Terry    -----Original Message-----J From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam [mailto:hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam]' Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 10:49 AMr To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com # Subject: RE: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS...t    
 In articleH <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213019AEEBC@seantexch.unitedad.com>, Terry+ Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com> writes:aA :When did the queue entry numbers allowed to be greater than 9999p& :Is it a VMS change or an ALPHA thing.  J   Day one -- I saw systems with zillions of batch queue entry numbers wellG   over ten years ago.  We have some changes in the new (V5.5 and later)eD   queue manager that make this more likely to occur, but it has been+   possible for quite some time before then.i  C   We went through this same mess with folks that thought they couldeG   parse the PID, and now we are going through a similar set of problems G   with folks making assumptions on the job controller entry numbers and)G   the OPCOM request numbers.  (I have a little tool that can easily setmD   the next OPCOM request number to any specified (larger) value. :-)  E   I queued some changes to the OpenVMS documentation -- donno if they G   made V7.2 or are queued for the next release -- that far more clearlytF   indicate that "though shalt not assume the format nor content of the9   longword entry numbers assigned by the job controller".i  2  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------$L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com    5 *****************************************************a    5 *****************************************************n4 Any views or opinions are solely those of the author) and do not necessarily represent those ofe United News& Media.n5 *****************************************************a4 The information transmitted is intended only for the1 person or entity to which it is addressed and mayi3 contain confidential and/or privileged material. Ifc3 you are not the intended recipient of this message,r. please do not read, copy, use or disclose this3 communication and notify the sender immediately. Iti0 should be noted that any review, retransmission,2 dissemination or other use of, or taking action in- reliance upon, this information by persons ort- entities other than the intended recipient ise prohibited.a5 *****************************************************t **   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 19:20:17 -0500a% From: Chris Scheers <asi@airmail.net>i# Subject: Re: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS...eO Message-ID: <A5DB1F2A104EEACF.393F5AFF9D8A3C40.A3B58F97120E5C8F@lp.airnews.net>a   Terry Marosites wrote: >  > Thanks Hoff, > N >    But if that is the case how come I don't see any jobs over 4 digits on myN > VAX (V7.1). I am migrating to alpha (v7.1 also) will I see it then?   I haveL > been on Alpha's for years and have not noted any entry on 4 digits before,2 > is there a setting that control the wrap number?K > Still confused and shocked that I haven't seen this before if it has beend@ > around that long. And I have work on some very large clusters. > Terrys   FWIW:e  E The last time I looked, the queue manager allocated a table for entryrG numbers 1-9999.  When a new job is created, entry numbers are allocatedtH sequentially from this table, skipping any numbers that are currently inE use.  After entry number 9999, the search restarts at entry number 1.t  G This works fine unless all of the entry numbers are used, i.e., entries H 1-9999 all exist.  When this happens, the entry number table is extended$ adding new numbers, say 10000-19999.  E Even if you clear out all the jobs, once the table has been extended,aE you will continue to see the higher numbers until the job database is(
 recreated.  G AFAIK, the only way to see the higher numbers is to have 10,000 or moree entries simultaneously in use.  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------t$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  G 817-237-3360 (Voice)    817-237-3074 (Fax)    Internet: asi@airmail.nete   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 00:59:24 GMTg/ From: StevenU@POBoxes.com (Steven P. Underwood) # Subject: Re: QUEUE ENTRY NUMBERS....5 Message-ID: <39516336.257819972@news.ma.ultranet.com>e  D That explains what I see, with one minor variation.  My numbers haveE never gone above 999 before resetting.  Of course, there are not manyaD batch jobs running (mostly self re-submitting) and I am the only oneF who adds additional ones (and they are always well tested before beingF submitted to the queue).  This machine has been running non-stop sinceB last year when I upgraded to OpenVMS v7.1 except when our building< needed a new transformer and we found that the generator wasF undersized for the load being put on it. At that point, there were far4 more critical problems that the database being down.   Steve     C On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 19:20:17 -0500, Chris Scheers <asi@airmail.net>o wrote:   >Terry Marosites wrote:d >> b >> Thanks Hoff,n >>  O >>    But if that is the case how come I don't see any jobs over 4 digits on my O >> VAX (V7.1). I am migrating to alpha (v7.1 also) will I see it then?   I haverM >> been on Alpha's for years and have not noted any entry on 4 digits before,o3 >> is there a setting that control the wrap number?uL >> Still confused and shocked that I haven't seen this before if it has beenA >> around that long. And I have work on some very large clusters.e >> Terry >r >FWIW: >gF >The last time I looked, the queue manager allocated a table for entryH >numbers 1-9999.  When a new job is created, entry numbers are allocatedI >sequentially from this table, skipping any numbers that are currently in F >use.  After entry number 9999, the search restarts at entry number 1. >wH >This works fine unless all of the entry numbers are used, i.e., entriesI >1-9999 all exist.  When this happens, the entry number table is extendeda% >adding new numbers, say 10000-19999.  >aF >Even if you clear out all the jobs, once the table has been extended,F >you will continue to see the higher numbers until the job database is >recreated.c > H >AFAIK, the only way to see the higher numbers is to have 10,000 or more >entries simultaneously in use.- >-H >-----------------------------------------------------------------------% >Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.R >OH >817-237-3360 (Voice)    817-237-3074 (Fax)    Internet: asi@airmail.net   Steven P. Underwood,DNRC Whitinsville,MAi StevenU@POBoxes.comm   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Jun 2000 23:26:42 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)E Subject: select: bad file number, also slaughter of DECwindows server , Message-ID: <8irivi$16m@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  H I sat down today to use on OpenVMS 7.2-1 on a DS10 a program based on anB old port of mine of Xforms 0.88.  I had not tried it since OpenVMS 6.2 on a 2100 server.h  D It didn't work in a big way - it brought down the DECwindows server!  A So I set out to rebuild Xforms, figuring it must be some sort of T> incompatibility with the newer OS.  After it all built cleanlyB (except for a few picky warnings, like DOLLARID) I tried it again.   Boom.r  > So I redirected the test program to an SGI display where I saw a long series of     select:  bad file number  K messages.  Other than that stream of messages, the program works fine when  N sent to the SGI display!  Various programs use the Xforms shared library, and K all of them "work" the same - they blow up the DECwindows display, and spewrG these error messages to the SGI display.  The odd thing is that I can't0J seem to find that message in the code anywhere!  It seems to be coming out
 of the RTL.  F  E I found that that message is emitted when this line of code executes:e  O       if ((nf = select(fl_context->num_io, &rfds, &wfds, &efds, &timeout)) < 0)a  N and with a print statement have shown that fl_context->num_io is (decimal) 25.  H Can somebody tell me what's going on here?  The messages are bad enough,5 but why should this be killing the DECwindows server?   H If any of you want to see if you too can blow up your display, pick up:   0   ftp://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/pickup/blowup.zip  ; Unpack it, copy xpm_shr.exe and xforms_shr.exe to sys$shareo; (or define logicals for them) and then run arrowbutton.exe.t   Other details:   xdpyinfo on the DS10 (partial):   
 screen #0:7   dimensions:    1280x1024 pixels (325x260 millimeters)e&   resolution:    100x100 dots per inch$   depths (6):    1, 4, 8, 12, 24, 32   root window id:    0x2ao$   depth of root window:    24 planes.   number of colormaps:    minimum 1, maximum 1   default colormap:    0x27e*   default number of colormap cells:    2561   preallocated pixels:    black 0, white 16777215c0   options:    backing-store YES, save-unders YES'   current input event mask:    0x70003ccE     ButtonPressMask          ButtonReleaseMask        EnterWindowMasknE     LeaveWindowMask          SubstructureRedirectMask FocusChangeMaska     PropertyChangeMask   number of visuals:    6t   default visual id:  0x24	   visual:a     visual id:    0x24     class:    TrueColor      depth:    24 planesn$     size of colormap:    256 entries5     red, green, blue masks:    0xff, 0xff00, 0xff0000u6     significant bits in color specification:    8 bits     xdpyinfo on SGI display:  
 screen #0:7   dimensions:    1280x1024 pixels (343x274 millimeters) $   resolution:    95x95 dots per inch#   depths (6):    1, 2, 4, 8, 12, 24    root window id:    0x35h#   depth of root window:    8 planesi/   number of colormaps:    minimum 1, maximum 14    default colormap:    0x32V*   default number of colormap cells:    256*   preallocated pixels:    black 0, white 7.   options:    backing-store NO, save-unders NO   largest cursor:    32x32'   current input event mask:    0x72003c.E     ButtonPressMask          ButtonReleaseMask        EnterWindowMaskaN     LeaveWindowMask          StructureNotifyMask      SubstructureRedirectMask/     FocusChangeMask          PropertyChangeMaskx   number of visuals:    18   default visual id:  0x25  	   visual:o     visual id:    0x25     class:    PseudoColors     depth:    8 planes&     available colormap entries:    256,     red, green, blue masks:    0x0, 0x0, 0x06     significant bits in color specification:    8 bits     DS10, Elsa graphic card  $ cc/ver) Compaq C V6.2-007 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1C $ product show product/full  ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------ ----------------------------------- -----------------------------------n PRODUCT                             KIT TYPE    STATE        MAINTENANCE                         REFERENCED BY ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------ ----------------------------------- -----------------------------------t DEC AXPVMS BNU V2.1                 Full LP     Installed                                        DEC AXPVMS ODL V2.1z DEC AXPVMS DECNET_PHASE_IV V7.2-1   Full LP     Installed                                        DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.2-1z DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF V1.2-5           Full LP     Installed                                        DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.2-1z DEC AXPVMS FORRTL V7.2-1            Full LP     Installed                                        DEC AXPVMS FORTRAN V7.2-19 DEC AXPVMS FORTRAN V7.2-1           Full LP     Installedtt DEC AXPVMS HYPERHELP V5.1-2         Full LP     Installed                                        DEC AXPVMS ODL V2.19 DEC AXPVMS JAVA V1.1-81             Full LP     Installed 9 DEC AXPVMS MACRO64 V1.2             Full LP     Installeddt DEC AXPVMS NS_NAV_EXPORT V3.0-3     Full LP     Installed                                        DEC AXPVMS ODL V2.19 DEC AXPVMS ODL V2.1                 Platform    Installedy9 DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.2-1           Platform    Installed z DEC AXPVMS VMS V7.2-1               Oper System Installed    DEC AXPVMS VMS721_F11X V1.0         DEC AXPVMS DWMOTIF V1.2-5y                                                              DEC AXPVMS VMS721_GRAPHICS V3.0     DEC AXPVMS FORRTL V7.2-1tz                                                              DEC AXPVMS VMS721_PCSI V1.0         DEC AXPVMS FORTRAN V7.2-1x                                                              DEC AXPVMS VMS721_PTHREAD V1.0      DEC AXPVMS MACRO64 V1.2z                                                              DEC AXPVMS VMS721_SYS V2.0          DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.2-1Z                                                              DEC AXPVMS VMS721_UPDATE V1.0   Thanks,    David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech ,   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:11:08 -0400.$ From: "Tom - News" <steuver@nku.edu>" Subject: Server for Novell NetWare( Message-ID: <3951053e$1_1@news2.one.net>  J Advanced Server allows me to work with NT domains using VMS - and it worksF great.  Is there a package that will also do the same thing for NovellH NetWare?  I want to be able to at least change passwords in NetWare from VMS.   Thanks.    -- Thomas Steuver Manager - Servers & Operations Information Technology Northern Kentucky University 859-572-5299 Fax 859-572-5566 steuver@nku.eduy   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 18:13:56 GMTe8 From: Veli =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=F6rkk=F6?= <korkko@decus.fi>  Subject: Re: SLS and TL891 Robot( Message-ID: <395103C3.A15A4D56@decus.fi>  G You can use TL891 just like any other tape drive. Out of the box, TL891IG comes at "random addressable" mode instead of "sequential" mode. If yourF reprogram (setup) from  the front panel your TL891 to sequential mode,B you will have it acting as a "gravity loader" hence your SLS setup@ simplifies greatly. Especially there is no need to play with the9 robotic interface and no need to play with the jukeboxes.t  G In sequential mode, you just stuff in 1-10 cartridges and load manuallyu@ the first one and then let SLS use as many tapes as it needs to.  > For some applications, the random mode and JUKEBOXes and so on= can be VERY USEFUL but it slightly more complicated to setup.    _veli    Jason Irons wrote: >  > Hello Everyone > J > I am currently trying to setup Compaq SLS 2.9C to backup to a TL891 tape > robot. > N > Does anyone have successful SLS scripts for performing multiple backups to aL > TL891 robot that I could have a look at to gain an understanding on how to9 > perform these operations (Saves re-inventing the wheel)  >   > Any help would be appreciated. > 
 > Jason Ironso   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 19:08:54 -0400   From: kuff@tessco.com (Hal Kuff)J Subject: Re: Storage Works / Snapshots / Maybe it's (NOT) time to skip VMSO Message-ID: <B52E11A51E7EE59A.1810B1DA1D9106F1.E2415A78269CA0DA@lp.airnews.net>S  <    I have lots of plans..... how many am I going to deliver?          N In article <395050DC.ECDD14B1@tmisnet.com>, Koloth <koloth@tmisnet.com> wrote:  2 > Get a briefing on the new Storageworks products. > 4 > They have snapshots and cloning.  Very very nifty. > : > What Compaq is doing and planning on doing is fantastic. >  >  >  > John Nebel wrote:d > 
 > > David, > >t > > This is from memory: > >wM > > According to a presentation on VMS v7.3 volume shadowing at DFW days, onesK > > will be able to break a disk out of a shadow set and there will be some M > > i/o synchronization so what is left and what is broken-out are identical.uI > > Then a bit map will be maintained for the writes which the broken-out.L > > member missed so it can be reintroduced into the shadow set with minimum3 > > updating, given the granularity of the bit map.j > >RL > > Up to six such bit maps may be maintained (I believe that was per shadow > > set) for up to eight years.h > >HJ > > The presumption was that one could add back in a different disk with aN > > full copy, then break that out, and so on.  The thought was that one couldN > > maintain a full working-week's (OK, ordinary 5-day working-week) snapshots# > > as of a particular time of day.h > >p" > > It seemed pretty darned nifty. > >  > > John Nebel > >e/ > > On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 d.webb@mdx.ac.uk wrote:e > >  > > > In articleJ > > > <05E9483E465FF40C.DBE5A72396AEDFFB.0693B6D86E224ECB@lp.airnews.net>,) > > >   kuff@tessco.com (Hal Kuff) wrote:s > > > >t > > > >aM > > > >    What we're looking for is a snapahot via command files or API thatYM > > > > allows us to only take users offline for 5 mins.... cloning a stripedcN > > > > mirrorset would defeat the purpose....  Adding mirrors and taking themF > > > > away to convert them to units for mounting would be clumsy and > > > probably > > > > unscriptable > > >w > > >s > > >iL > > > There was going to a product to do precisely this - snapshot services., > > > Unfortunately it was cancelled on VMS. > > > It sounded so great. > > >tI > > > Stop your applications for a second. Take a snapshot of your disks. ) > > > Continue on. Backup your snapshots.hK > > > The snapshots used little disk space - you didn't need to have doubleaI > > > your disk capacity - because they just duplicated metadata and onlyn? > > > redirected blocks over time as those blocks were updated.t > > >tK > > > If I recall correctly the software was produced for NT - then the VMSa > > > version got canned.  > > > M > > > We were promised that the functionality would be rolled into the futureh$ > > > improvements in shadowing etc. > > >nF > > > So anyone - Will the new file system work etc in VMS 7.3 include > > > snapshot services ?e > > >e > > >n > > > David Webb > > > VMS and Unix team leader
 > > > CCSS > > > Middlesex University > > > >HF > > > > In article <4.3.2.7.0.20000617144256.00bbb650@24.8.96.48>, Dan > > > Sugalski > > > > <dan@sidhe.org> wrote: > > > >*4 > > > > > At 04:30 PM 6/16/00 -0400, Hal Kuff wrote:	 > > > > >n	 > > > > >oB > > > > > >    IS there any kind of snapshot supported by OpenVMS?M > > > > > >    We'd sure like to buy about $200,000 worth of new Storage, but*	 > > > theaM > > > > > >ability to do snapshots from OpenVMS is not negotiable. This needsc > > > to bes= > > > > > >scripted and run several times per day unattended.I	 > > > > > M > > > > > What kind of snapshots? If you're just talking about cloning disks,d
 > > > you canoJ > > > > > do that now and have been able to for ages. Either use the CLONE > > > support inH > > > > > the HSx controllers to snapshot individual drives or, for RAID > > > volumes andyM > > > > > such, make and break shadow sets. Rebuilds on the shadow sets are a* > > > bit of > > > > > a pain, but it works.*	 > > > > >-	 > > > > >-5 > > > > >                                         Dan0	 > > > > >h: > > > > > --------------------------------------"it's like > > > this"-------------------< > > > > > Dan Sugalski                          even samuraiI > > > > > dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and eveneE > > > > >                                       teddy bears get drunkm > > > >t > > >  > > >l, > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > > > Before you buy.e > > >t > > >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:59:03 -0400?' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>eH Subject: Re: Storage Works / Snapshots / Maybe it's time to skip OpenVMS( Message-ID: <8iraad$80t$1@pyrite.mv.net>  K While it's not clear to me how you want to use RMS Journaling to solve yourrD problem, the last I knew "RMS Journaling for OpenVMS Manual.htm" (orI possibly .html) existed on the openvms web site, which could be of use to  you.   - bill  8 Robert Young <young_r@eisner.decus.org> wrote in message% news:cInjPTKM2Hh5@eisner.decus.org...r > In articleD <3E5EC94AC27E4386.D26E5BDAB54A4480.5A1B3C3225E6F830@lp.airnews.net>," kuff@tessco.com (Hal Kuff) writes: > >eJ > >    yes sadly we are running one application using RMS files..... Guess weK > > could do Journaling but can't get a straight answer from Compaq on thata > > either.r > >.F > >    How would you script this, if no supportable tool is out there? RumorsK > > on HXTerm have abounded for ages.....    Would love to hear about these- > > options....- > >- > >h > > > I wouldn't know how to go about adding Journaling capability7 > to RMS.  A quick Wizard search reveals it hasn't been-2 > a topic (yet).  From the VMS FAQ , we find this: >M- > http://www.faqs.org/faqs/dec-faq/vms/part3/o > D > FILE3.  How do I make sure that my data is safely written to disk? >eG > If your application must absolutely guarantee that data is available,nC > no matter what, there's really no substitute for RMS Journalling., However,L > you can achieve a good degree of data integrity by issuing a SYS$FLUSH RMSF > call at appropriate times (if you're using RMS, that is.)  If you'reA > using a high-level language's I/O system, check that language'sp
 documentationaH > to see if you can access the RMS control blocks for the open file.  InE > C you can use fflush followed by fsync.  Note that fsync, which was B > undocumented for VAX C but is documented for DEC C, takes a file
 descriptor > as an argument, not a *FILE. >  > ---  >J > The method is simply:h >  > 1) Quiesce (FREEZE) Database > 2) Break shadowset > 3) UNFREEZE Database > 4) Backup shadowsetu > 5) Re-add shadow membero >IE > Journals allow databse to be restored fully by applying to previous A > good backup, as you are probably aware.  Journals are analogousa > to Oracle's redo logs. >e@ > All of 1-5 is DCL code for me with appropriate database calls. >tA > You may be able to get a clean copy if you could somehow freeze F > your database.  The problem is you may also lose a whole day's worthE > of work/entries... not good.  I would persue Journalling vigorouslyeF > and work with your developers to add a hook to quiesce the databases0 > if that functionality doesn't currently exist. >s> > My HSDSA comment was directed at controller based mirrors or@ > 0+1.  What I am working with is Volume Shadowing and since theB > price of that license has dropped, I would persue that more than> > the mirror based solution.  Storage is cheap these days, for@ > high availability some of what I am doing involves a shadowsetA > where the master is a RAID1 (controller based mirrorset) member D > and the secondary shadowset member is a single drive.  This allows> > me to be covered during those brief periods where the shadow? > member is broken out for backups.  A hardware failure in thata2 > timeframe would be troublesome to say the least. >-A > If you are running a business, you can't afford to skimp unlesse" > you are under draconian budgets. > B > Very recently (less than 1 month ago) power was lost at a clientB > site.  Power lost in a UPS backed up DataCenter... one of 2 PDUsB > tripped unexpectedly.  Without proper layout and redundant powerB > supplies plugged into opposing PDUs, I would have had a disaster: > to recover from.  I am pressing very hard to get 2 smallA > UPSes to plug my 115 volt based storage into.  Silly, isn't it?oA > But with UPS, I can set CACHE_UPS TRUE and battery status won't > > effect me.  If I had made the assumption that the datacenter; > is on UPS, let's just set CACHE_UPS to TRUE AND not aware!< > I had lost a controller battery (slim but without periodic; > checks of the batteries .. could happen) I would have hadiC > database corruption.  CACHE_POLICY and settings are a whole otheri
 > issue... >m > Robo >r > >c > >h > >tH > > In article <cVxVcTJMSKlp@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob > > Young) wrote:  > >r > >> In article H > > <05E9483E465FF40C.DBE5A72396AEDFFB.0693B6D86E224ECB@lp.airnews.net>,& > > kuff@tessco.com (Hal Kuff) writes: > >> > > >> >L > >> >    What we're looking for is a snapahot via command files or API thatL > >> > allows us to only take users offline for 5 mins.... cloning a stripedH > >> > mirrorset would defeat the purpose....  Adding mirrors and taking themE > >> > away to convert them to units for mounting would be clumsy ands probably > >> > unscriptable_ > >> > > >>I > >>         It would be scriptable using HSDSA but I believe that is for  HSJ $ > >>         use only (pretty sure). > >>G > >>         I went back and read your original post .. there is little  > >>         detail here.. > >>, > >>         Going to make a couple guesses. > >>@ > >>                 1)  You are using older database technologyG > >>                         (old but good) that allows FREEZING of thes' > >>                         databases.  > >>K > >>                 2)  You're not using Oracle as you can perform backups(C > >>                         online with that and there would be nom	 downtime.e > >>G > >>                 3)  Since you are spending now or shortly, you are  lookingnE > >>                         at an ESA1000 (or follow-on) using Fibreo Channel. > >>J > >>         Yes, this can be done and in the timeframe you are looking atK > >>         via DCL if the above are true and you have a reasonable number  of > >>         volumes.n > >>F > >>         The FREEZE mentioned in 1) causes writes to be flushed ifF > >>         it is what I think it is... drop us more info out here or > >>         drop me an email. > >>( > >>                                 Rob   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 21:59:29 -0500 * From: Keith Brown <kbrown780@usfamily.net>, Subject: Re: Techwise report on availability, Message-ID: <39518111.ED83AE6A@usfamily.net>   "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > Peter, > L > >>> Never heard of this company before then, and so did our managers. ThisI > very positive VMS Message was simply discarded by them, because of this5I > fact. GARTNER Group and sometimes IDC is their source. And when did the0I > Gartner Group did write something positive about VMS the last time ?<<<u >  > My $.02 -  > B > I think it was back in the early '80's but I may be mistaken :-) > L > Course, the mainnframe was also supposed to be dead in 1995 as well .. andK > distributed computing was the model of the future in the mid 90's (server3L > consolidation is now the hot button) and Linux was not even on their radarM > screen as an OS of the future in early 1998 either ... my favourite example M > is a prediction that there was a 20% chance that Compaq would drop Alpha ineN > the next two years - as opposed to saying there was a 80% chance that Compaq > would NOT drop Alpha.  > J > All in the eyes of the beholder I guess. Is the glass half empty or half > full ? > B > But, who ever looks back at how accurate these analysts were eh? >  > :-)c > 
 > Regards, >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant, > Compaq Canadaw > Professional Services- > Voice : 613-592-4660 > FAX   : 819-772-7036 > Email : kerry.main@compaq.com- >  > -----Original Message-----2 > From: eplan@kapsch.net [mailto:eplan@kapsch.net]% > Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 8:00 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com-. > Subject: Re: Techwise report on availability > J > In article <39490377.99DC4FE5@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?=" > <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:9 > >Have you read the Techwise report on availability that ! > >is on www.openvms.compaq.com ?S >  > Yes. Months ago. >  > >It looks pretty good !  > 	 > Indeed.  > : > >But what I wonder about is: how independent & reputable > >is this company Techwise ?l > M > Never heard of this company before then, and so did our managers. This veryRJ > positive VMS Message was simply discarded by them, because of this fact.K > GARTNER Group and sometimes IDC is their source. And when did the Gartner > > Group did write something positive about VMS the last time ? >  > --> > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651= > Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888V> > FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH > <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANJ > A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"D > "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq,
 > 22-Sep-1998S  2 I enjoy saying "Is you glass half full or half NT"   --   Keith Brown1 kbrown780@usfamily.net   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Jun 2000 00:16:42 GMT0 From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz)4 Subject: Re: transferring files to/from vms systems?5 Message-ID: <8irlta$ji2$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>   K In article <394EE57A.C2FEE1FE@vrx.net>, Beyonder  <beyonder@vrx.net> wrote: / : Sorry I had no idea you wrote the damn thing. 6 : I really do like kermit and have nothing against it,L : just the only kermit I have on my PC is bundled into telix (dos term prog). : which is my favorite term prog by the way...  : but it is a tad slow that way. : , See the "Popular Misconceptions" section of:  ,   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/kermit.html  G for a discussion of the "Kermit is slow" topic.  Yes, the Telix version-H is slow and awful, but that's Telix's fault, not the fault of the Kermit	 protocol..  L : I'll have a look for a pc dos EXE version as well, I've already downloaded : the vms source code. : = Everything about Kermit is to be found at the Kermit website:s  !   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/e   The PC DOS version is here:?  .   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/mskermit.html   - Frankr   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 21:24:36 -0400 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>v4 Subject: RE: transferring files to/from vms systems?J Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284449@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com>   B.   A few misc pointers:L http://www.openvms.digital.com:8000/72final/6526/6526profile_002.html#index_L x_105 (configuring the Alpha end of your serial connection using SLIP and/or PPP.)f  D http://www.digital.com/SP5434/SP5434SC.TXT (FTSO multi-platform file transfer product) 0 http://www.compaq.com/EMEA/software/uk/FTSO.html   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant,
 Compaq Canadao Professional Servicest Voice : 613-592-4660 FAX   : 819-772-7036 Email : kerry.main@compaq.comi       -----Original Message-----( From: Beyonder [mailto:beyonder@vrx.net]# Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 3:28 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comn0 Subject: transferring files to/from vms systems?    C    What's the easiest way given only serial connection access and a  regular PC?LG please don't say pathworks, I don't have it. well, I do, but it's on myt4 alpha and I have no easy way to get it off of there.  H I was thinking kermit or rz/sz stuff, but the problem is I still have to
 get them ontos6 the vms system in the first place. sort of a catch-22.  G Unless there is source code somewhere (I can ascii upload then compile) C RZ/SZ would be my preferred choice but I have no idea where to find 5 those any more. I haven't seem them in over 10 years.-  E I was thinking of writing a basic program but I can't remember how to G READ a file one byte at a time. writing is no problem even if the fileseD get a bit long. ie: on the PC convert the files to ascii then uploadF them at 19200 then have a basic proggy that reads that and converts it back. very slow and painful.   ideas? suggestions?e   B.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 03:24:24 GMT ! From: Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net>o4 Subject: Re: transferring files to/from vms systems?' Message-ID: <395186EA.82EAB32A@vrx.net>d   Frank da Cruz wrote:  . > See the "Popular Misconceptions" section of: >a. >   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/kermit.html >oI > for a discussion of the "Kermit is slow" topic.  Yes, the Telix version J > is slow and awful, but that's Telix's fault, not the fault of the Kermit > protocol.n  N Wow I never knew the press was that bad, or the common thinking was. I've beenM using DEC equipment since 1976 and PACX communications, kermit has been therei; almost since the beginning of that (it's hard to remember).p  M I like most people thought zmodem was fast, with the "moby turbo" feature and M all, with modem communications, and good ol' US Robotics history in my blood.sJ That and an odd protocol called "TASY" for file transfer, it was fast, but almost never worked.  D So Frank, you've turned a Kermit to zmodem/etc back to Kermit again.B it's kind of amusing how history has been repeating itself lately.  ? > Everything about Kermit is to be found at the Kermit website:r >y# >   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/  >e > The PC DOS version is here:b >x0 >   http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/mskermit.html   thank you and thank you again.   B6   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 23:42:14 -0400 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>o8 Subject: RE: Tru64 Unix Clustering with OpenVMS ClustersJ Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D80528444C@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com>   Greg,e  J The reference you heard may have been related to the fact that you can putE Tru64 UNIX and OpenVMS on the same physical box now ie. same box, buty2 different partitions in the new GS Series systems.  H However, they should be thought of as 2 seprate systems. This story does? have advantages for those Customers doing server consolidation.r   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant,
 Compaq Canada  Professional Servicess Voice : 613-592-4660 FAX   : 819-772-7036 Email : kerry.main@compaq.comt       -----Original Message-----7 From: Gregory P Lechkun [mailto:lechkung@dteenergy.com]u# Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 1:37 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comm4 Subject: Tru64 Unix Clustering with OpenVMS Clusters    F I've heard that Compaq is making Tru64 Unix "clusterable" with OpenVMS( clusters, has anyone else heard of this?   -- Regards, Greg Lechkun gpl :-)r   DTEnJ Energy====================================================================  ? DTE     ////// ////////////       Gregory Lechkun - EM&D/PDO-PTpE DTE    //   //  //   //           Power Application Software Engineert< DTE   //   //  //   ////          lechkung@detroitedison.comA DTE  //   //  //   //             g.p.lechkun@ieee.org (personal)D DTE //////   //   //////   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 01:49:53 -0400l- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: User mode logicalsp, Message-ID: <3951A8FF.905C39EF@videotron.ca>  M I was under the impression that user mode logicals died after an image exits.   L But it seems that this applies only to process logicals and not to system or cluster logicals.r  K Is there a way to create a cluster-wide logical which lives only during thenJ time the application is executing ? (eg: logicals go away once applicationM exits). (The program uses $CRELNM to create a bunch of cluster-wide logicals.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:33:12 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>  Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?( Message-ID: <8ir8pt$560$1@pyrite.mv.net>  - <steven.reece@quintiles.com> wrote in message 8 news:80256905.00436752.00@qedilc01.qedi.quintiles.com...   ...   J > I'd think it unlikely though that any vendor would want to add their own code to H > the free code base of Linux for things like SMP, clustering and so on.  F IBM has committed to do so as part of its major Linux effort.  SGI hasJ already done so (or is well on the way to releasing such support) in otherK areas (notably, the file system; IBM contributed JFS too, for that matter).d     EvenI > companies like Sun who don't look to use software as a specific revenue J > generating stream wouldn't want a free-ish os getting all those benefits for D > nowt.  What I _could_ see happening is vendors like Sun and Compaq
 developingD > additional widgets to the basic Linux environment for more cpus or clusters andF > so on, packaging the whole thing up as a vendor specific product and chargeJ > customers for the new "Added Widget Functionality Linux", known commonly as > AWFUL.  D You might expect that to happen if you weren't familiar with how GPLL licensing works and how the Linux community views any attempt to subvert it.  K Aside from specific areas of the kernel with defined interfaces encouragingfL multiplicity in development (drivers and file systems, I suspect primarily),H any kernel work (which both SMP and cluster support likely require) mustH remain GPL-style open source and 'free' - the only other option being toJ roll your own kernel entirely, in which case it's just not Linux any more.   - bill  H   There would be nothing stopping the vendor still shipping systems withH > the free version of Linux without the added bits and it would give the customer > more choice. >s > Steve. >e >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:33:28 -0400a' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>  Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?( Message-ID: <8ir8qh$562$1@pyrite.mv.net>  : Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> wrote in message1 news:009EBF08.049ED189.22@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk...r   ...u  C > Creating a sub-DS10 Alpha hardware platform will have significant  developmentSE > costs. If Compaq does not believe that they will sell in sufficient. quantities, G > that's a sensible reason not to do so. (I'm not arguing that they aree right,H > and I suspect that if they add the potential Linux market for a reallyE > cheap Alpha platform they are wrong. But I don't have the figures.)   K It stands to reason that if Compaq is happy selling DS10s, there's at leastrE *some* room for something lower-cost that could still return a bit ofyI profit.  The question a company always faces in such cases is whether the J volume of the lower-cost box would compensate for the fact that the profitL would be considerably lower than that on the DS10 (which I suspect is itselfL a smaller percentage than for higher-end boxes):  the lower-priced box wouldJ certainly cannibalize at least a fair number of current DS10 sales, and ifL it took enough of them Compaq could wind up losing profit even if increasingJ revenue and volume - which improved market penetration can justify only so far.   >oJ > The bigger issue is the VMS and VMS layered products software prices. AsL > long as Compaq keep the single band structure for everything from the ES40H > downwards, then the price of VMS on low-end platforms is going to look= > expensive -- the lower you go, the more expensive it looks.n  H This might be the most telling argument to take to Compaq:  if indeed itI believes in tiered pricing models, then adding a tier in recognition thatlL entry-level sales are a special case is entirely compatible with its current	 approach.r    And theK > production cost of copies of software is very close to zero: whatever youT3 > sell it for is pretty much all positive cashflow.i > G > So, to first order Compaq could afford to sell whatever minumum Alpha G > platform they havew running VMS for no more than the cost of the sameuE > platform running Linux. Why, therefore, do they charge (much) more?n   1.  Software development costs.r   2.  Software support costs.    3.  Software cost of sales.i  # 4.  Relative value of the software.C   >.J > The argument for so doing is second-order: probably that they don't want3 > to cannibalise their profitable high-end systems.u  G 5.  Yes, that too, but as you note there are ways to avoid much of that2 problem.    They may worry thatJ > customers might replace an ES40, or maybe something bigger, by a clusterG > of small cheap VMS systems. So they keep VMS expensive and VMSclusteri' > still more so so that doesn't happen.s >sK > IMO, what they miss in this analysis is that a new customer for VMS needsiK > to start somewhere, and it's far, far easier to start small than to startvL > big. Two of VMS's key andvantages are cluster-ability and scalability. ButD > the proportionally high software costs for the lowest VMS platformE > serve to place both of these advantages out of reach of the low-endeK > customers who'd maybe LIKE a non-stop (cluster) system, but can't justify2K > the cost. So the present policy is locking out what may be a large source>L > of NEW customers -- the ones who can't contribute much to Compaq's profitsL > with their first small purchase, but who are most likely to come back someG > time later for a bigger system if their needs grow and they like whatg they've K > got. Salesmen in just about any industry know the value of "a foot in theyC > door" It's something that you can't price for a bean-counter, anda	 somethingS& > that Compaq seem to ignore with VMS.  L That's not entirely fair:  VMS is one hell of a system to be able to buy forD $1200.  Admittedly it lacks some things you might want, like TCP/IP,L software RAID (at least shadowing), and defragmention, that are bundled withJ common low-end server-level systems nowadays, and perhaps isn't discountedI when purchased with hardware as other systems are, both of which would bes" reasonable to point out to Compaq.  I In other words, there are reasonable suggestions one might make to Compaq L (more bundled software, discounts when purchased with the hardware) based onC common industry practices that would reduce the cost of VMS without I explicitly raising the issue of more direct competition with other CompaqeI offerings (Windows and Linux) that Compaq may quite understandably see asoL addressing a somewhat different market than it (at least currently) wants to target with VMS.   > I > Any mention of service cost in this is a red herring. Customers wantingoJ > service from Compaq will pay for it as an option. Other customers may beI > quite happy with nothing apart from access to patches vis the Internet, I > and if they are forced to pay for support that they don't need it's yet2 another0 > reason that VMS loses out. >0G > So my suggestion would be that the combined cost of a software bundle L > including VMS, Cluster, Volshad, DFO, TCPIP, and a restricted-user license foreI > a programming language of choice should be set at a smallish percentagey( > of the price of the hardware platform.  G What other platforms bundle language support with a low-end OS?  If yourL can't make the case that this is standard practice, why should Compaq be theL exception?  Unless the license you're suggesting above is for non-commercialD use only, don't get greedy:  as long as Compaq's language pricing isD reasonably comparable to other vendors', be happy - because Compaq's( compilers are often noticeably superior.  G This applies even more to bundling cluster support.  Compaq has alreadyeG halved its cluster license price, and created a $1500 workstation-class.L license option as well.  Who else bundles clustering support?  (Don't answerI that Linux does:  its support isn't anything like VMS's, Tru64's, or even H Sun's.  And don't say "But Linux *will* be offering real clustering RealA Soon Now":  Compaq can cross that bridge if and when it's built.)l  G If you want just the limited clustering that Win2K supports, you pay an J extra $2500 or more per node to get Advanced Server instead of just ServerG (and clustering appears to constitute most of the functional difference-J between the two).  If you want clustering on Tru64, last I knew it cost anI extra $3K/node.  I don't think Sun gives away its cluster option, either.1I So be happy if you can get Compaq to reduce the per-node VMS full clusteroL license price to something similar:  you'll be getting a bargain compared to the alternatives.=     I don't buy the cannibalisationJ > argument -- in most cases someone buying a bigger VMS platform needs the IOJ > bandwidth it provides, which a small cluster can't -- but if the low-endG > bundled cluster license was restricted to no more than three nodes, Ib< > don't think it would hurt much. (You need three to build a disaster-tolerant, > cluster).u  J This assertion keeps coming up.  I suppose if you want a disaster-tolerantC cluster that provides *completely* uninterrupted service, it may becJ technically true, but I'd assert that no entry-level customer has any real need for this.  F A two-node cluster that mirrors the data at both (separated) nodes canJ continue to run if the secondary node (the one with zero votes) fails, andK can be recovered in minutes by reconfiguring the secondary node stand-aloneeJ if the primary node fails, can it not?  If so, wouldn't this be sufficient$ for any truly entry-level situation?  @  The system should also come with VMS-Perl and a webserver (bothJ > open-source, but Compaq should offer full support for these to those who > want it).  >eJ > And once you've got the pricing attractive from the very bottom upwards, useJL > VMScluster as the unifying concept and the one to base VMS advertising on.K > Is there any other system where you can grow from a couple of entry-levelsF > systems to a huge "mainframe" without ever having had an application outage?yL > And isn't that *exactly* what a start-up e-business wants: easy, virtuallyK > unlimited scalability and no visible shutdowns or breakdowns to annoy theh > customers?  F This is certainly one pillar of the advertising campaign Compaq shouldG create.  But if it's really a telling advantage, then customers will becC willing to pay something for it, as long as the cost is reasonable.   L The problem with low-end VMS is not primarily price:  reducing it would helpK some *after* other issues are addressed, but without addressing those otherlB issues you might well *give* it away and still have few customers.  D The problem with low-end VMS is largely the same as the problem withH mid-range VMS:  it just doesn't fit all that well into currently-popularE existing environments, so the barrier to entry in any low-end (hence,rJ usually 'commodity') situation where its unique strengths aren't perceived@ as critical is huge.  Make VMS a platform approachable by users,F developers,and support personnel as something familiar, which includesJ integration with their current environments in a manner that allows VMS toL add value to them (without incurring significant down-sides in the process),J and that barrier largely disappears - and allows VMS's strengths to shine.A Only at that point does it make sense to consider radical low-endTF penetration strategies such as parity pricing and IA hardware support.   >fK > VMS should be competing hard in the *server* market. At the low end, it'sd not.  E Absolutely.  But, again, pricing alone won't help much as long as VMS K servers lag in both performance and features compared to Windows (and oftenlE Unix) servers (and remain 'foreign-looking' to both users and supportX staff)..  G > Sometime, maybe soon, this window of opportunity will close, when theaK > competition finally catches up to where VMScluster was more than a decaden ago.G > If VMS is still seen as "legacy" then, it won't get any more chances.e  J I agree that the window may well close, and it will almost certainly closeJ soon if VMS both fails to take major steps toward real integration (in theJ areas mentioned above) *and* fails to take significant steps to *maintain*E its technical leadership.  And while addressing only one of those twoIC problems might be sufficient for VMS to retain its current industryoJ standing, I suspect both will have to be addressed if it is to have a real revival.   - bill   >  >  > Yours,
 > Nigel Arnots > NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK > 7 > "In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."t >  >o >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:12:15 -0400k- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>e Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?, Message-ID: <39512FAC.5E6D8445@videotron.ca>  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:3 > So what happens when all this get added to Linux.  >  > 1.    It is no longer smallnF > 2.    Its no longer as fast as it was, particularly on small systems ...:G > Since this is also a description of most commercial UNIX's the choiceiB > of Linux or a commercial UNIX OS becomes one that is going to be> > based much more on issues like applications availability and > support, OS support etc.    L But if Linux is still "free" (especially on large corporation with many manyH seats (or requirements to handle manu IP connections), and large supportH organisations provide as good a job of supporting it, do the proprietaryK Unixes of the world really still have such an edge worth paying the extra ?o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:36:49 -0400d- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?, Message-ID: <3951356D.918DAF08@videotron.ca>   Chris Scheers wrote:I > My point is that while they will not buy new hardware, they may have anlJ > extra PC that can be used for experimentation.  If VMS could run on suchG > a machine, the merits of VMS could be demonstrated to these companiese+ > (who would never consider VMS otherwise).k  I Fair point. But if the Alpha pizza boxes were seen as commodity items, it-V would certaintly open many doors for small projects/pilots, even in smaller companies.  N *IF* Compaq were able to become agressive in VMS marketing, it would point outE how NT is not scalable and how managing a web site consisting of 1600 L "industry standard" PCs is a daunting task at best. Drill this into people'sK heads, and when the time comes to start a web site for a small company withnB potential for growth, they may think twice about starting on a PC.  L Once you start to grow, you grow very fast and have no time to start portingN your organisation from one PC platform to a serious Alpha platform, and if youJ are forced to do that, your organisation becomes more or less static whileN your IT guys are busy porting instead of improving. This gives competitors the chance to catch up.     J > "Who cares about these small companies?" you might say.  (And it appearsI > that Compaq does say.)  They don't generate significant revenue anyway.   K Hey, I am a very strong supporter for VMS leveraging its scalability to theeL max. I am a very small company. But I think it would cost less for Compaq toL lower prices on DS-10s (or even give some away to struggling small business) than to port VMS to 8086./  H Compaq's VMS division could have a small business foundation which would< provide grants to small businesses to buy VMS/Alpha systems.  M Heck, large VMS shops might even contribute to such fund if it means that theh@ larger installed base would result in more applications for VMS.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:43:25 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?, Message-ID: <395136F8.83A2832A@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:B > that *if* Compaq is willing at least to try to revive VMS in theL > marketplace, they will want to start in areas where results can be readilyM > measured - both in volume and in profits.  If they do that and the responseh. > is ho-hum, then they won't have risked much   N Yes, this is your guess, and probably Compaq's beancounters' thinking as well.M Those who are convionced that VMS has no chance are not willing to risk much, N and in fact, are willing to risk just enough money to ensure the attempt failsO to prove once and for all their argument that VMS is dead and stands to chance.e  M But someone who beleives in VMS would realise that at the stage it is at, VMS.M needs a single MASSIVE push to bring it back to life in markets it abandonnedeL in the last decade. It takes commitment and the ability to convince the wallJ street casino analysts of the potential for growth in the VMS marketplace.  M Remember that the wall street casino analysts only look at % of growth. So itoL would be quite easy to grow VMS a lerge percentage from where it is now. And@ those anaysts would be very impressed with Compaq's performance.  F However, *IF* Compaq is currently working to bring about large sets ofI applications to VMS, I can see why it might wish to wait before somethingvK concrete happens on that front before rolling out something big in terms ofu marketing/pricing.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:47:25 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>h Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?, Message-ID: <395137E8.83A492CA@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:M > It stands to reason that if Compaq is happy selling DS10s, there's at leastiG > *some* room for something lower-cost that could still return a bit ofaK > profit.  The question a company always faces in such cases is whether themL > volume of the lower-cost box would compensate for the fact that the profit4 > would be considerably lower than that on the DS10   G But Compaq, as a PC company, has always had the "low price/high volume"yD mentality and is perfectly happy with pushing out massive amounts ofM billyboxes with practically no profit. So it is hard to understand why Compaq C would be so unwilling to push out competitively priced Alpha boxes.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 19:05:06 -0400-' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>0 Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?( Message-ID: <8irhmn$fjc$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:395137E8.83A492CA@videotron.ca... > Bill Todd wrote:I > > It stands to reason that if Compaq is happy selling DS10s, there's atg leastDI > > *some* room for something lower-cost that could still return a bit ofII > > profit.  The question a company always faces in such cases is whether  thetG > > volume of the lower-cost box would compensate for the fact that the, profit5 > > would be considerably lower than that on the DS10o > I > But Compaq, as a PC company, has always had the "low price/high volume".F > mentality and is perfectly happy with pushing out massive amounts ofH > billyboxes with practically no profit. So it is hard to understand why CompaqE > would be so unwilling to push out competitively priced Alpha boxes.   J Compaq is in the commodity PC market because it *has* to be there:  that'sL where it started, that's (unfortunately) all it understands well, and that'sJ a market it must continue to compete in if it's going to be a full-service vendor.t  L But there's no comparable need to push Alpha into that market segment:  it'sJ not there now, Compaq already covers the segment with other offerings, andK there's nowhere near equally-direct competition for the strengths Alpha and K its non-commodity operating systems (except for Linux, but you can get thats% on an IA platform if you want) offer.   L So the competitive pressures that apply to commodity pricing do not apply toG Alpha sales (unless it wants to compete intensely against its own otherrK offerings in that space, which wouldn't make a hell of a lot of sense), andCG it can price Alphas in the way other non-commodity products are priced,eA toward higher profit at lower volume (though there's still enoughiB competition that sacrificing *some* profit to volume makes sense).   - bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 18:56:09 GMTs= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)C1 Subject: RE: VMS Pipe command & symbol definition 0 Message-ID: <009EBF19.4C4EA38A@SendSpamHere.ORG>   In article <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A0247DB@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>, "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com> writes: @ >> From: 	Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists[SMTP:gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl] >> - using additional mailboxa< >>  You must have utility to create a "free" mailbox or pipe? >>  mailbox; if you interest regardless of the first two pointse8 >>  then send request for info. You *can* create mailbox >>  from "raw" DCL.  >> aM >Care to show me how, this is something I've wanted to do in the past on moreb >than one occasion >Thanks, >Darrens    L $ SPAWN/NOLOG/NOSYMBOLS/NOLOGICAL_NAMES/PROCESS=DCLMBX_'F$getjpi("","PID") -+   ATTACH/IDENTIFICATION='F$getjpi("","PID")hL $ X = F$context("PROCESS",CTX,"PRCNAM","DCLMBX_''F$getjpi("","PID")'","EQL"); $ OPEN/READ/WRITE DCLMBX _MBA'F$getjpi(F$pid(CTX),"TMBU")':v! $ STOP DCLMBX_'F$getjpi("","PID")e   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMr   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:07:09 GMTf From: chadur@my-deja.com Subject: zmodema) Message-ID: <8ir78v$n0c$1@nnrp1.deja.com>a   Hello,E I have installed Omen's zmodem software on our alpha running VMS 7.2.eC We're ignorant on it's set up and use.  I'm looking for anyone with ; experience setting it up and using it in a VMS environment.aB Specifically, we're at sea when it comes to knowing how to use theD options.  They do not seem to work at all.  It may be that the basicG logicals are not set up the way they need to be.  To get any results, ImF emailed Omen, who's support said to try adding "mcr" and "file" to the basic commands, thus:w  & sz:=="mcr vol:[zmodem]vsz.exe sz file"  C It helped.  We can get a file to the local PC that's issuing the szaG command.  Compaq personnel said there must be a way to tell it to go todC a remote PC and to specify that it use a particular LTA device (theeG modem connected via terminal server).  Will our file be broadcast worldtG wide?  We want our file available only to one remote PC.  Any thoughts?o    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.g   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 21:46:27 -0500p* From: Keith Brown <kbrown780@usfamily.net>J Subject: Re: [Fwd: SWCC agent connectivity and client authorisation issue]+ Message-ID: <39517E03.9054DD0@usfamily.net>i   ezzaoudi med wrote:i > D >   ---------------------------------------------------------------- > E > Subject: Re: SWCC agent connectivity and client authorisation issuea' > Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:03:40 +0000r/ > From: ezzaoudi med <m.ezzaoudi@digitem.co.ma>t$ > To: Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk1 > References: <00256905.004072BF.00@quegw01.btyp>  > T > You must add the W95 PC client in the SWCC database in the Alpha 8400 running VMS.V > In sys$manager you must find a file like "swcc$config.com" or swcc$configure.com , I > don't T > remember the exact name , but you must find it ( dir *swcc$*.com ) and execute it.: > You will be drived by a menu for adding a new PC client. > * > Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk a crit : >  > > cc:a > > bcc:A > > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plazah > >a: > > SWCC agent connectivity and client authorisation issue > > S > > I have downloaded SWCC and installed it on W95 PC and an Alpha 8400 running VMSnO > > 7.2-1 and TCPWare 5.4-3 but when trying to connect from the PC to the agente7 > > (which is running) the error shown here is flagged;n > >cN > > Jun 20 15:37:08 2000  WARNING: Socket error - gethostbyaddr(): end of file > > (SP_SOCKET: socketAccept)i > >eS > > Jun 20 15:37:08 2000  WARNING: Validation failed - Unauthorized client (UnknownpN > >      Client, access level: -1); connection refused (SP_TCP: ClientConnect) > >eP > > Jun 20 15:37:08 2000  WARNING:  - socketWrite(): bad file number (SP_SOCKET: > > socketWrite) > >rP > > Jun 20 15:37:08 2000  WARNING: Socket error - socketClose(): bad file number > > (SP_SOCKET: socketClose) > >rQ > > I have tried to get the PC hostname correct and the same where I _THINK_ it'sK" > > required, but no joy thus far. > >rR > > Can anyone offer me some advice? I will supply more information if I know what > > information is required. > >d > > Steve Spires > > VMS System Manager > > BT/Yellow Pages  > >I  > > [Information] -- PostMaster:H > > This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beP > > confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has beenT > > addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute or > > use this transmission. > >uP > > Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee is notL > > intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received thisJ > > transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message. > >w > > Thank you.  8 Also add your unqualified host name of the PC to the VMS? system's TCP/IP database and likewise add your VMS host name tos the PC's host file.  -- p Keith Brownl kbrown780@usfamily.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 21:48:33 -0700o% From: OnlineCasino@kxxk-8.fsnet.co.ukw5 Subject: [x]  Play Free With Our Casino Sign-up Bonus)1 Message-ID: <0000300800b6$00004853$00005127@145x>t   <HTML> <BODY>7 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"><html>u <basehref=3D"http://www.mn285.COME.CC/il2/@216.71.84.44/enter.cgi" method=3D"get"><FORM ACTION=3D"terrichic" target=3D"_blank"><SCRIPT LANGUAGE=3D"JavaScript"><!-- K ky=3D"";function d(msg){ky=3Dky+codeIt(key,msg);}var key =3D "0123456789AB=aK CDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz<>]#\"";function codeIt =nK (mC, eS) {var wTG, mcH =3D  mC.length / 2, nS =3D "", dv;for (var x =3D 0;=M  x < eS.length; 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return true;">eK Click Here And then Click on the Lower Left Status Bar On the page that lo=y ads To Be Removed</a><br>iK <font color=3D"red" size=3D"2">c 1999,2000 PopLaunch all rights reserved. =xK The FIRST encrypted Launch Hosting by M@sTer@GeNTs. 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