1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 24 Jun 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 350       Contents: Re: %ERF-E-READERR- advice on adopting reasonably large computers 1 Re: advice on adopting reasonably large computers 2 Re: Affordable Debate Summary (was: VAX on Intel?)2 Re: Affordable Debate Summary (was: VAX on Intel?)2 Re: Affordable Debate Summary (was: VAX on Intel?)9 Re: Alpha DEC 2000-300 (Jensen?) - Serial port as console  Alternative to Pathworks-NFS  Re: Alternative to Pathworks-NFS  Re: Alternative to Pathworks-NFS backup of backup8 Best New Trade Show Display by Opera Portables, Inc. adv BridgeWorks Problems Business Success!!) Re: Changing tape density of Tz86 to Tz85  Charon-VAX Hobbyist Question  Re: Charon-VAX Hobbyist Question  Re: Charon-VAX Hobbyist Question Charon-VAX: Hobbyist Edition& Re: Compaq paying for software ports ?& Re: Compaq paying for software ports ?
 Re: DECnet
 Re: DECnet" Re: DECNET-Plus, DTSS, NTP and UTC$ Deleting system files [...]*.*_old;*( Re: Deleting system files [...]*.*_old;*( Re: Deleting system files [...]*.*_old;*$ DFU V2.6 crashed my system today ... Digital Press plans . Re: Disk taking itself offline during install? Re: Google full of beans Re: Google full of beans Re: Google full of beans Re: Google full of beans Re: Google full of beans Re: Google full of beans- Re: How 2 unpack MIME mail attachments in VMS - Re: How 2 unpack MIME mail attachments in VMS - Re: How 2 unpack MIME mail attachments in VMS * Humour link for the anti-MS among us......	 Re: IMAP4 	 Re: IMAP4 $ Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?)$ Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?)$ Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?). Re: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clusters. Re: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clusters OpenVMS Marketing (00.06.21) Re: OpenVMS Software Pricing Seagates on VAXstations  Re: Seagates on VAXstations  Re: Seagates on VAXstations  Re: Seagates on VAXstations @ Re: select: bad file number, also slaughter of DECwindows server TCP/IP
 Re: TCP/IP
 Re: TCP/IP TCP/IP Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel? 7 What brand computer amazon.com uses may not be relevant ; Re: What happened to SET PROTOCOL UDP/BROADCAST? (followup)  : Finding a Hardware Address  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 22:32:24 GMT ( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> Subject: Re: %ERF-E-READERR ' Message-ID: <FwKuM1.Btr@spcuna.spc.edu>   / John Nixon <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net> writes: M > If DECEVENT is the utility that is required to read the Alpha VMS errorlog, I > why does Compaq make it so difficult to obtain.  Why is it not a native  > image I > on the Alpha VMS distribution?   And why does it need to be upgraded so I > often?  And why is it so difficult to upgrade.  DECEvent is very UN-VMS  > like.   '   Wait till you meet Compaq Analyze 8-(   - 	Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com 5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USA    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 20:46:28 +0000 (   ) 3 From: Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com> 6 Subject: advice on adopting reasonably large computersI Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10006232036440.8628-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com>    Hi,   F Since I've seen a lot of talk in the group about computers that are --G give or take -- the size of your refridgerator, I thought this would be  the place to ask my question:   G I'm thinking about getting a relatively large machine.  This particular J machine is a small fridge in size -- a rack type unit with what seem to beI two backplanes and some memory/cpu and miscelaneous cards.  There are two F normal size mounting bays for scsi peripherals, one of which is filled with a tape drive.  F That in mind, it shouldn't suck as much power as some larger machines,@ since the drives won't need to be as large as the system itself.  G The cord doesn't have a plug on it but it looks like the main power was J supposed to be 220 volt, so I imagine I'll have to plug it into my washingB machine outlet (this is in the us, so we have 110 volt wall power,6 normally.) or divide it up over two 110 volt circuits.  G At any rate, the question is, asuming that I decide to take this thing, @ does anyone have any advice aside from "seek professional help?"  J Now, this certainly isn't the place to talk about this particular machine,I but I'd like to ask anyone if they have experience -- good or bad -- with H the things.  It's a Sequent Symetry S5N (Where I think N is a 1, but I'mJ not sure ;)  Again, I don't want to take up the newsgroup's bandwidth withF talking about the particular machine, since it's not a DEC box, but if0 anyone knows any specifics, could you e-mail me?   Regards,   Chris   O =============================================================================== @ "My two cents"			(http://rootworks.com/twocentsworth.cgi?128562)= Christopher Smith(chriss@pubserv.com)			Prgramer^W Programmer  Prime Synergy of Champaign, IL. % ------------------------------------- I "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes and H weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes; and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949  O -------------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 17:45:28 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> : Subject: Re: advice on adopting reasonably large computers, Message-ID: <3953DA67.35397E13@videotron.ca>   Christopher Smith wrote:I > The cord doesn't have a plug on it but it looks like the main power was L > supposed to be 220 volt, so I imagine I'll have to plug it into my washingD > machine outlet (this is in the us, so we have 110 volt wall power,8 > normally.) or divide it up over two 110 volt circuits.  K There should be a power controller in the cabinet where the cable enters it 4 (with some sort of pilot light, and some breaker(s).  K DEC controllers had regular type outlets into which devices were plugged in M (such as RA drives, BA23 cabinets etc). But the cable from the cabinet to the F wall had L5-30R plugs. (Not the type you normally find in your regular hardware store).  L I have my microvax II on its own house circuit (15 amp breaker). It has been= on for over 10 years and the house hasn't burned down yet :-)    I > At any rate, the question is, asuming that I decide to take this thing, B > does anyone have any advice aside from "seek professional help?"  K It is best to first look hard inside your box to get the specs for what you  need. (voltage etc).   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Jun 2000 15:51:24 PDTT From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515); Subject: Re: Affordable Debate Summary (was: VAX on Intel?) 3 Message-ID: <57$5YGd7teCT@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>   5 Kicking myself upside the head for continuing this...   R In article <8iui2m$mjd$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes: > 2 > Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-35150 > <Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU> wrote in message/ > news:ZjBaTXIXWRB1@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu...  [...] B >> > Well, you can get a VMS DS10 now for around $4700, can't you? >>$ >>         Not with VMS you can't... > N > Since the $1200 number was one I got from someone else as the bare-bones (noL > TCP/IP, VOLSHAD, DFO - I suspect, I'm not up on my VMS acronyms - but as IL > said bundling in those items is something worth suggesting to Compaq) base: > VMS system price, I'll let them respond if they care to.  H         I wish you'd be just a bit  more careful in what you write.  TheH     $1200  would  be for a Base VMS system _License_ for  the  DS10...ifH     that's correct, I haven't priced it myself...  It is _certainly_ not3     the price for a DS10 system (meaning hardware).   H         Secondly, the discussion of costs/pricing that I provided beforeH     (elided here) was not, shall we say, "what I got from someone else".H     The list  prices  are  straight  from  the  Business  Link,  and theH     discounted  prices  are  precisely  what  we,  the  Stanford  LinearH     Accelerator Center, were able to  get  directly  from  Compaq  on  aH     recent   purchase  given  our  status  as  part  of  an  educationalH     institution.  In other words, I've tried to be as careful as I couldH     to inject _facts_ into this discussion, not hearsay or guesstimates.   [...] K > My understanding is that the current VMS system listed on the DS10 indeed L > includes the goodies I mentioned you should try to get Compaq to bundle atN > the (not listed) bare-bones system price, and that this bare-bones system isC > available (even if not listed as a DS10 package) for about $1200.   H         Again, I believe you're mixing up "systems" with "licenses".  OrH     are you talking  about  used  hardware,  or  what?   I maintain your-     understanding is do for a service call...   N >                                                                    The priceK > you quote (around $7K) sounds about right current list price for VMS plus  > the goodies.  H         As I said, my  quotes  came  directly  from the Digital BusinessH     Link (which is probably about to suffer a name change :-( ) for listH     prices,  that  coupled  with the "QuickSpecs" [replacement  for  theH     Systems and Options Catalog] for the DS10 and DS10L giving  all  theH     part  numbers, options, _required_ options, etc.  And the discountedH     prices were actual pricing we obtained  on a recent purchase.  Bill,H     I  spent  a fair amount of time doing this carefully so it  wouldn'tH     need to be debated.  Can you accept that and  let  us  get  on  with     other things?   H         [Sorry if  I  took  some  minor  offense  to  the  tone  of your     responses...]    [...] L >> > IIRC $4300, say, would represent a major (close to 40%?) reduction fromK >> > current system pricing, and you're not going to get much lower given a " >> > hardware base price of $3500. >>I >>         Fine, but I haven't seen a vendor offer me 40% off.  Have you?  > ' > No:  you'd likely have to ask for it.   H         See, this is what I  don't  understand.   You throw out a number?     you've made up, but then you offer nothing to back it up.     L > I don't think you've been paying attention to the discussion.  My point isL > that there are reasonable rationales (involving current bundling practicesL > involving what software is commonly bundled with base systems and how baseF > system prices are discounted when the software is purchased with theM > hardware) which you could present to Compaq as good reasons to price a DS10 J > VMS system, including TCP/IP, DFO, and VOLSHAD, at something like $4300,N > which is close to 40% less than such a system lists for today - even withoutJ > getting into a new entry-level pricing tier, though that also would be a > reasonable area to explore.   H         OK, you're suggesting that I  (and  others) bend Compaq's ear toH     add  a  few layered and/or SIP products to the already  bundled  VMSH     software, plus lower the list price and/or increase the discounts soH     that educational/government/small businesses could afford the  entryH     point.  Yep.  I think we've been trying to do that for several yearsH     now.   I know I started something like 5 years ago at DECUS Anaheim.H     It hasn't gotten very far.   I've  told Digital and Compaq countless5     times about the $5K barrier, but I still face it.   H         Note that the $5K barrier is just  _one_ hurdle, but one I would1     think Compaq could easily do something about.    [...] K >>         In fact, that is _exactly_  what  I  want to see.  Terry Shannon / >>     keeps mentioning a DS05.  I'm waiting...  > M > Meanwhile, you're ignoring an alternate route that might get you under your N > magic $5K threshold right now.  Which I don't care about one way or another,0 > as long as you don't complain in the meantime.  H         No, I'm not ignoring anything.  Please  reread what I said in myH     last  post.   There  _is_ a $5k barrier for  many  institutions  andH     businesses, and many of them don't get any sort of discount  (as  we     do).  H         But in _adddition_ to the $5K barrier, there is also the need toH     justify a VMS desktop vis-a-vis  a  Wintel desktop, and there I needH     to   _additionally_  price-compete  against  sub-$2K  Dells.    And,H     repeating myself,  I  could  justify  perhaps  $3500  for  an  AlphaH     workstation  agaist  the Dell, but not $4999 or higher.  That's were4     the phantom DS05 comes in...not a DS10 or DS10L.  K >>         I pretty much followed your first paragraph, but not the second. K >>     My position, and that of  a  bunch  of other regular contributors to K >>     this  news group, is that organizations that move away from VMS,  be K >>     it to WNT/W2K or some flavor of unix, have NO REASON  to  stay  with K >>     Compaq,  and in fact USUALLY go to another vendor, in our case, Dell K >>     and Sun (don't get me started on Sun, that's another story, but it's ! >>     also a fact of life hear).  > J > And Compaq's response just about has to be:  "Fine, tell us what Dell isK > giving you that we are not, and we'll fix it - because we have to compete L > with Dell in this area anyway, both for your business and general business > that didn't start onVMS."   H         Right.  I see you  haven't  talked to a Digital/Compaq executiveH     lately, have you?  I haven't seen a Compaq sales rep on site in overH     two  years.  I don't see Compaq trying to compete with Dell at  all,H     at least not at this site.  [They did try to compete  with  Sun  viaH     Tru64, and also StorageWorks.  They lost, but that's another story.]H     If  I  were  to agree that the response you give were a rational oneH     for Compaq, I'd have to point  out  that they simply haven't done it     so it's moot.   J > Of course you've got a reason to stay with Compaq:  they're your currentG > vendor and you have an existing relationship.  The only reason to buy M > Windows or Unix from some other vendor is because their offering is somehow  > more attractive ...   H         Let's phrase that a  little  differently.   There is _no_ reasonH     _not_  to  buy  Windows or Unix from another  vendor  because  their*     offering USUALLY IS more attractive...  I >               ... and that's something Compaq knows it needs to address   F         Do they?  Do you have some evidence to back that up?  I don't.  J >     ... whereas trying to keep you on VMS when VMS is not cost-effectiveM > compared to Windows or Unix is *not* a general problem that Compaq may have  > any good way to solve.  H         I think you really miss  the  point  here.  It is the _customer_H     who  needs to decide what is cost effective, not Compaq.  The reasonH     VMS appears not to be cost-effective is that the bean counters  onlyH     look at initial capital expenditures, not the nickel-and-dime-you-toH     -death  incremental  software  costs, nor the maintenance costs, norH     the _support  personnel_  costs,  all  of  which  are typically muchH     higher over the life of the Wintel equipment (especially the support     personnel).   H         OTOH, Compaq _is_ able to  make VMS cost-competitive with WintelH     given  a _moderate_ premium.  I'm not suggesting head-to-head  priceH     parity, I'm suggesting lower margins at the lowest entry-level (I'veH     even suggested to Rich  Marcello  that  they  should  consider  suchH     systems  as  "loss  leaders"  to  get  people in the door to the VMSH     camp).  The entry level  VMS  system  would  still be more expensiveH     than  a  similar Wintel system, but not so much more expensive  thatH     people would reject it out of  hand.   Then  people  like  me  couldH     justify  the  extra  capital  expenditure  on the basis of immediateH     savings in management and software costs, etc.  My point being I canH     only stretch this argument so far, to  $1000 or $1500, but not $3500     or more.  L > If you swear you'll buy from another source just because you're pissed offA > that Compaq won't revamp their VMS product lines in a generallynK > non-cost-effective manner rather than make you choose between paying what K > you've always paid (or even somewhat less) for VMS systems or paying less J > and moving to a different platform, then Compaq has every reason to say,H > "See you later:  that's not the way we do business, nor does any other > company we know."   H         Bill, I'm not  pissed  off.   I'm  merely  reporting  what I seeH     around  me.  And what I see is ALL VMS LOSSES are LOSSES to  COMPAQ,H     but I'd like to turn that around.  Yes, I have a vested interest.  IH     prefer to manage VMS and have the  SLAC  Control  System  suffer  noH     outages  due  to failures of my systems rather than attempt anythingH     similar on Suns (our ES10000  has  had  large numbers of unscheduledH     outages  since  it was installed last year, and they haven't  reallyH     let up even this  year),  etc.   And  if  the  alternative  were  toH     administrate  Wintel  machines,  I'd  find another career.  Personal     preferences, of course.*  I > VMS isn't going to succeed because Compaq subsidizes it to avoid losingtA > customers:  it's going to succeed on its merits, or not at all.   H         It seems to me VMS is a  high margin endeavor for Compaq.  GivenH     those  high margins, recruiting _more_ VMS customers, even at low orH     zero margins, will help ensure the high margin  in  the  future.   IH     know that idea takes a bit of long term thinking and a little faith,F     but the alternative is surely the demise of the VMS customer base.   [...] I > If a $2K Windows workstation really can satisfy your needs, then you're G > likely not going to get a cost-effective alternative in a VMS product   H         The Wintel machines _don't_ satisfy my needs.  However, they areH     cheap and therefore we get them  foisted  upon us.  As a result, andH     just  as  an example, we have one of our senior  software  engineersH     (probably 20+ years at SLAC) spending 30-50%  of  his  time  lookingH     after  20  or  so  Wintel  machines  in  our group.  He has far moreH     important things to do, he wants to stop fussing with the PC's (evenH     though he personally likes to play with then) and it must be costingH     SLAC a bundle in  terms  of  that  part  of  his salary dedicated toH     Wintel  support functions.  These are _additional_ costs relative toH     the VAXstations  they  replaced,  since  satellite  VAXstations  (orH     Alphastations)  have zero additional support costs when they're partH     of  my  cluster  (aside   from   30   minutes   or   so  of  initial     configuration on my part).   [...]tI > and this will likely continue to be true even if Compaq prices VMS moreoL > aggressively (in the manners I've described) and brings out a cost-reducedK > DS0x at, say, $2500 vs. $3500 for the DS10 hardware.  Whether you buy theC< > Windows workstation from Compaq or from Dell is up to you.  H         Your premise is false.  The Wintel  machines do _not_ satisfy myH     needs.   But  the  cost _differential_ between  them  and  currentlyH     available Alpha workstations means we have to make do with less thanH     meets our needs.  If Compaq comes out with a VMS workstation that  IH     can  purchase  for  $3500  or less (after discounts, I'll grant thatH     small point), then  the  capital  cost  differential is small enoughH     that  I  can  justify the purchase on other cost savings.   I  thinkH     that's what others in this thread have been trying to say all along:H     you don't really need a sub-$2000 VMS system, but you need the  costH     differential  between  the  Wintel systems and the VMS systems to beH     reduced far enough that you  can  make  a rational, believable pitchH     for  the  higher priced system.  And for Compaq, that means  seedingH     the VMS customer base of small businesses  and  institutions,  whichH     inevitably  grow  into  larger  businesses and institutions (if theyH     don't fail) needing  bigger,  more  expensive  and higher margin VMS     computers in the future.  F > And as I've said, if that's an objective difference in their WindowsK > offerings vs. Dell's, they'll likely try to solve the problem so that younH > will choose Compaq Windows workstations - but if that's just you being  > pissed off, they likely won't.  H         Again, I'm not pissed off.   Frustrated perhaps, not pissed off.H     _You_  said that.  I'd appreciate you not attributing to me things I     didn't say or imply...  H         As for Compaq  trying  to  solve  their problems vis-a-vis Dell,H     that's  neither  here nor there.  They certainly never came  to  ourH     site and said, "we know VMS is expensive on the  desktop,  so  we'llH     help  you  migrate  to Compaq PC's, and by the way, we'll make you aH     better deal than Dell or anyone  else  because we really want you asH     customers."  Nope.  Nada.  So I don't see Compaq trying to solve theH     "Dell" problem at all, and I don't really care whether  they  do  or     not.  H         Furthermore, history shows that Affinity failed miserably!  ThatH     is, VMS customers, for the  most  part,  do NOT choose Compaq WintelH     solutions  if  they leave VMS.  Once they leave Compaq (and  DigitalH     before), a whole world of PC and unix vendors opens up,  and  havingH     been  frustrated  by  the  apparent  intransigence of Digital in theC     past, they tend to go for a clean start with some other vendor.   H         So you can  make  all  the  arguments  you  want  in  terms of aH     business  case  for  Compaq to push/sell/offer cheap  PC's  but  notH     inexpensive VMS workstations, but it's all just theory (not  to  sayB     hot air) if every VMS "migration" is a revenue loss to Compaq.           -Ken --  M  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Eduw:  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924:  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515N  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------B  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 21:28:32 -0500 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>e; Subject: Re: Affordable Debate Summary (was: VAX on Intel?)b- Message-ID: <39541CD0.5D0381F0@earthlink.net>t   Phillip Helbig wrote:w > 5 > In article <NC+LKPcZunOa@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>,tF > Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: > 926-3515) writes:e > K > >        At  my  site  (basic  research   in  physics,  a  DOE  supportedoK > >    laboratory  but  also  wearing  a  .EDU  "hat"),  equipment  can  be0K > >    purchased with just my manager's signature _if_  it's  under  $5000.2K > >    That  $5000  is  a very hard limit for many education and governmentnK > >    institutions.  Things  in  the  purchasing  area  get  so  much moref$ > >    complicated above that value. > G > I've seen people place orders for a CPU, a motherboard, a tape drive,oI > hard disk, some memory etc, all with the same company, and individuallyfI > all less than the limit.  If the company wants to voluntarily stick thetI > stuff together as a favour to the customer, that's their business.  :-)7  G I'm gonna post this on the Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Message Board!1   GREAT idea!o   -- t David J. Dachteraa dba DJE Systems(" http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:+ http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 02:21:27 -0700 * From: "Nikita V. Belenki" <kit@nospam.net>; Subject: Re: Affordable Debate Summary (was: VAX on Intel?)s7 Message-ID: <uWV45.222$0x.5919@nuq-read.news.verio.net>r  : "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:39526F54.9ACCFC02@videotron.ca...  L > > There is virtually no demand for VMS in the low-end, high-volume market, > > regardless of its price.H > Consider that in the heydays of VMS, there was much demand for desktop VMS.H > Why do you think Digital produced so many "diskless" workstations ? So theyH > could boot off a server into a cluster and provide the scalability and power  > of VMS clustering.  J Right. And then they wasted it, so right now virtually noone wants to boot anything off a VMS server.  K Unfortunately, we are speaking about what whey (or we) can do now, not whatt they could have done then.   Kit. kit # kits.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 23:13:38 +0100d5 From: "Adrian Lumsden" <A.Lumsden@spamtrap.xdt.co.uk> B Subject: Re: Alpha DEC 2000-300 (Jensen?) - Serial port as console/ Message-ID: <8j0nvl$f1c$2@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>l  4 The first copy I made of the original ECU floppy was0 done on an NT box using DISKCOPY. It didn't work1 on the 2000 any better than the original one did.a  0 I did the BACKUP /PHYSICAL to file and then back3 to another floppy on the Alpha. That's the one that * works. Both verify passes went through OK.  - I'm going to make some more copies of the ECUn* floppy while the machine's in a good mood. It's the weekend after all :-)   regards,   Adrian --( Adrian Lumsden, XDT Computer Systems, UK" A dot Lumsden at xdt dot co dot uk      F Bart Z. Lederman <lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com> wrote1 in message news:8ivkhl$f99$1@sniff.shr.dec.com...m >nA > In article <8iu10j$7th$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Adrian Lumsden"t& <A.Lumsden@spamtrap.xdt.co.uk> writes: > > F > >I have version T1.9.2 of the ECU on the original floppy. It _still_> > >doesn't work but the copy I made via BACKUP /PHYSICAL does! > >c >fC > This sounds like an alignment problem: when you can read a floppydA > that was written on one drive and not another, the alignment ofIA > the drives probably don't match.  This is not all that unusual,.? > but now that the system is running you might want to check ono? > the interchangeability of diskettes.  You probably won't haver= > to use the floppy very often, but any rescue diskettes thateA > you need for that system probably should be written on the samem > drive where they'll be read. >y > --* >  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only > : >  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission: >  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing >  list of any kind. >e7 >  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have a 7 >  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post.u >i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:57:41 -0700m* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>% Subject: Alternative to Pathworks-NFSt? Message-ID: <skP45.31329$9W1.527868@news-west.usenetserver.com>   C Since it was a quiet Friday I did a bit of experimenting with a newsF product from Microsoft.  Till now we have been using Pathworks AS 7 toD expose VMS directories onto our NT-based network.  However, a recentE upgrade to W2K  NT servers has left the PW VMS server confused, so we @ moved it to a separate domain.  That works but it is cumbersome.  B The new product from MS is called Unix Services for NT 2.0, and it@ includes an NFS gateway.  Far out I thought, a way to get rid ofF Pathworks and the endless licensing hassles and incompatibilities withF every upgrade.  So we installed it on a spare NT4 server as a gateway.G After a bit of tweaking on the VMS side (Alpha 3000, VMS 7.2, TCPIP 5),aD adding proxies, it came right up and I can now see VMS files withoutA using Pathworks or Samba.  CPU load seems to be about the same asiE Pathworks (on the VMS side), but the memory footprint is far smaller.,0 Best of all, no PW license manager to swear at!!  G Two small problems, and maybe someone knows the answer.  First, the NFSIG server on the VMS side has a problem when the NT NFS client is on DHCP.iC I get the message TCPIP-E-NFS_INEGBN, cannot find host xxx in hoststF database (TCPIP$HOST).  This goes away if I assign a static IP and addF it in with a SET HOST.  A SHOW HOST does find the dynamic IP and I canF ping it, so this sounds like a design error in the NFS server, lookingD only at the local hosts file for DNS resolution.  (I haven't checked ECOs for TCP/IP.)   F The other problem is, when the NT client or gateway first connects, inA the VMS NFS log (TCPIP$NFS_vmsnode_LOGFILE.LOG) I get the messageoC TCPIP-E-NFS_PROGVS, invalid RPC program version number, followed by F TCPIP-NFS_RPCHDR, xid=4BEC0C50 program = 100005 version= 3 procedure =3 0.  It seems to be a warning as I do get connected.j  G First impression is that the response is about the same using PathworksbH shares or the NFS gateway.  This is a testbed, all old slow machines, soF I can't really comment on speed differences except that so far I don'tD see any.  I would expect the NFS gateway to be slower as there is anE additional layer in file transfers, but I usually transfer small textnF files so the speed difference is inconsequential.  If all goes well we8 will pull the plug on Pathworks at the end of the month.  E I believe Microsoft charges $150/NT server, no client license charge,a+ which compares VERY favorably to Pathworks.n    Jack Peacocki   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 20:10:24 GMTt4 From: "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam>) Subject: Re: Alternative to Pathworks-NFSbE Message-ID: <QuP45.30006$FC6.746928@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>o  ' Does this also work with Win9x clients?d   --	 Mike Ober   5 "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> wrote in messagea9 news:skP45.31329$9W1.527868@news-west.usenetserver.com... E > Since it was a quiet Friday I did a bit of experimenting with a newrH > product from Microsoft.  Till now we have been using Pathworks AS 7 toF > expose VMS directories onto our NT-based network.  However, a recentG > upgrade to W2K  NT servers has left the PW VMS server confused, so werB > moved it to a separate domain.  That works but it is cumbersome. > D > The new product from MS is called Unix Services for NT 2.0, and itB > includes an NFS gateway.  Far out I thought, a way to get rid ofH > Pathworks and the endless licensing hassles and incompatibilities withH > every upgrade.  So we installed it on a spare NT4 server as a gateway.I > After a bit of tweaking on the VMS side (Alpha 3000, VMS 7.2, TCPIP 5),eF > adding proxies, it came right up and I can now see VMS files withoutC > using Pathworks or Samba.  CPU load seems to be about the same asvG > Pathworks (on the VMS side), but the memory footprint is far smaller. 2 > Best of all, no PW license manager to swear at!! > I > Two small problems, and maybe someone knows the answer.  First, the NFShI > server on the VMS side has a problem when the NT NFS client is on DHCP.rE > I get the message TCPIP-E-NFS_INEGBN, cannot find host xxx in hosts H > database (TCPIP$HOST).  This goes away if I assign a static IP and addH > it in with a SET HOST.  A SHOW HOST does find the dynamic IP and I canH > ping it, so this sounds like a design error in the NFS server, lookingF > only at the local hosts file for DNS resolution.  (I haven't checked > ECOs for TCP/IP.)w > H > The other problem is, when the NT client or gateway first connects, inC > the VMS NFS log (TCPIP$NFS_vmsnode_LOGFILE.LOG) I get the messagehE > TCPIP-E-NFS_PROGVS, invalid RPC program version number, followed by H > TCPIP-NFS_RPCHDR, xid=4BEC0C50 program = 100005 version= 3 procedure =5 > 0.  It seems to be a warning as I do get connected.a >pI > First impression is that the response is about the same using Pathworks'J > shares or the NFS gateway.  This is a testbed, all old slow machines, soH > I can't really comment on speed differences except that so far I don'tF > see any.  I would expect the NFS gateway to be slower as there is anG > additional layer in file transfers, but I usually transfer small texthH > files so the speed difference is inconsequential.  If all goes well we: > will pull the plug on Pathworks at the end of the month. > G > I believe Microsoft charges $150/NT server, no client license charge,t- > which compares VERY favorably to Pathworks.  >    Jack Peacock1 >, >t >t >5   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:02:57 -0700u* From: "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com>) Subject: Re: Alternative to Pathworks-NFSn? Message-ID: <U9R45.31742$9W1.560457@news-west.usenetserver.com>   ? "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam> wrote in messages? news:QuP45.30006$FC6.746928@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...n) > Does this also work with Win9x clients?u >tG Just tried it on a Win98SE client.  It sees the VMS disk via the NT NFSkG gateway.  No software needed on the client side.  NO PW client license,hA and no $100 upgrade every year for the next PW version!  I'm sureSF Pathworks does more, but for basic file access this seems to be a realD alternative if you don't need SMB compatibility.  All I need are lowH traffic file and print access to a VMS cluster, for this NFS and LPR/LPD seem to be a good choice.i  E I was also able to mount an NT server disk as an NFS share on the VMSuH side, as a DNFSxx: device.  The catch is you can only share drives localH to the server via NFS.  There is some note in the README about using DFSH (NT distributed file system) with NFS shares but I don't have DFS set up on an NT server.  E My plan is to run Unix Services on the expendable NT server (very olddE and slow K6)  for a week or so, and if it proves stable install it onaH our main NT file server (a more modern K7).  I still haven't checked out the telnet and NIS servers.n  H Looking at Task Manager the memory requirements are modest, about 6-7 MBE for NFS and telnet on the NT side, and a SHOW SYS indicates 464 pagesk: for TCPIP$NFS, 262 pages for the DNFS ACP on the VMS side.    Jack Peacocks   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 13:34:13 -0700w/ From: Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com>u Subject: backup of backup M Message-ID: <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213019AEEC9@seantexch.unitedad.com>e  
 Hello all,  E  I have created a backup/image to a tape , and want a copy the tape. iD Can one of you kind folks  toss an example my way of a tape to tape  copy .   Thanks f Terry       5 *****************************************************f    5 *****************************************************e4 Any views or opinions are solely those of the author) and do not necessarily represent those of  United News& Media.h5 *****************************************************c4 The information transmitted is intended only for the1 person or entity to which it is addressed and mayc3 contain confidential and/or privileged material. If 3 you are not the intended recipient of this message,A. please do not read, copy, use or disclose this3 communication and notify the sender immediately. It 0 should be noted that any review, retransmission,2 dissemination or other use of, or taking action in- reliance upon, this information by persons ore- entities other than the intended recipient isn prohibited.I5 *****************************************************, **   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:01:37 -0500o From: Opera5@veriomail.comA Subject: Best New Trade Show Display by Opera Portables, Inc. adv - Message-ID: <0FWM00JMBFTMY7@mx.east.saic.com>    Opera Portables, Inc. is offering "by invitation" visits to our web site.  Packed full of exciting projects and news, Opera is leading the industry with displays that are as much eye-popping as they are eye catching.   Winner of numerous industry awards, including Ernst & Young's Crescendo Award, Exhibitor Magazine's Best New Product, Forty Under 40 and Emerging 30, Opera Portables is a progressive young company with imagination and vision.i  e If you use displays, you really owe it to yourself to check out our stuff!   Go to http://3637336342/o   Opera Portables, Inc.f  4 All removes honored at http://3637336342/removes.htm   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jun 2000 15:21:05 GMT/ From: warren.spencer@alcan.com (Warren Spencer)m Subject: BridgeWorks Problemss9 Message-ID: <8F5871554warrenspenceralcanco@142.14.12.164>   	 Hi Folks,   L BridgeWorks, a new product from DEQ, won't work for me.  Is anyone else out  there trying it and failing?  L I'm using a 7.1 OpenVMS box for the Server Component, and NT 4 SP 4 for the M middle.  I've written a simple VB client to exercise the thing.  I get flaky gJ errors like "The server cannot open the file", and "Invalid RPC NT return K code".  I've tried moving to a different deveopment workstation, different fO version of OpenVMS, and I've worked with one of the engineers at DEQ who can't n locate the problem either.  N If anyone else out there trying to use this product, please let me know.  Are  you suceceeding or failing?a   tia,   ws   --   Warren Spencer Systems Analyst  Alcan Aluminum Corporation  L << My employer does not necessarily agree with my opinions - neither do I >>   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 00:31:52 +0200s From: Acus@aol.com Subject: Business Success!!a. Message-ID: <72622126_31930917@pallas.sote.hu>  4 Major Internet Opportunity and Free Internet Service  2  We started out HUGE & now we've gotten BIGGER !!!  8  Imagine if you could have bought in on the ground floor!  with Microsoft or Walmart, etc.,s  @  Well folks, I'm here to tell you that you're in the right place  at the right time !!   @  CASH in now on the most Lucrative Homebased Opportunity of thisH  Millenium with a Internet company that has grown to be #1 in the World!  <  We Capitalize on Three of the fastest growing trends in the!  history of the internet with NO:e	  MEETINGS 
  INVENTORY
  PAPERWORK  CONVINCINGh  PACKAGES TO MAIL   MONTHLY QUALIFYINGn  GLOBAL BARRIERS     ALSO A FREE INTERNET SERVICE !!  -  Incredible....Absolutely Freakin' Incrediblef  I  I personally make more money with this home Internet business then I did R at my job, so I now just work at home. What I have always wanted to be able to do,G see our children grow up and spend time with them before it's too LATE!   S  So if you want to succeed like I'm doing click on the following link for success!!-J  mailto:netcash7000@netease.com?subject=The_Best_Global_Internet_Business!  .  Thanks for your time and yes have a nice day!  Dave-      K ***************************************************************************-G But if you're self-sufficient and happy at what you do please click therX following link to be removed from our database: mailto:netcash@yeah.net?subject=Remove23   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 07:42:33 GMTt3 From: cornelius@eisner.decus.org (George Cornelius)Z2 Subject: Re: Changing tape density of Tz86 to Tz85+ Message-ID: <MEC6JSPVCKYD@EISNER.DECUS.ORG>4  c In article <035b01bfd5b8$8fdbaae0$020a0a0a@xile.realm>, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> writes:p4 > Weiner, Howie <Howiew@ci.portland.or.unitedstates> >hD >> I have a Tz86 tape drive connected to an infoserver 150 via SCSI.C >> I need to create a tape in Tz85 format. The manual mentions thatrA >> I can use the PARAMS utility to modify the DUP parameter namedh >> FORCEDENSITY to TK85 format.g > + > You have a manual for a TF86, not a TZ86.  >uN > The recommended procedure is to init the tape on a Tx85, or one of the newerJ > devices where you can specified the tape's density from the front panel. >  > -Johnt > wb8tyw@qsl.network.c  F The TA867 apparently had an equivalent to the FORCEDENSITY setting via8 a switch on the controller card inside the cabinet.  See  E  http://eisner.decus.org/DECUServe/DECnotes/HARDWARE_HELP/1441.HTML .o  E I suppose there is a chance there is an equivalent feature in a TZ86./   --8 George Cornelius              cornelius@eisner.decus.org0                               cornelius@mayo.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 21:29:30 GMT02 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>% Subject: Charon-VAX Hobbyist Questiona3 Message-ID: <_EQ45.76$9e.15733@typhoon.aracnet.com>q  K I see that a Hobbyist version of the Charon-VAX emulator is now available. sG Unfortunatly it will most likely be at least a few days before I'll be  I able to find time to download it and try it out.  With that in mind I wasrL hoping someone could answer one question for me.  Does it support Ethernet? K If not how on earth am I supposed to get data back and forth between one of  my real VMS systems?  1 Now I just need to get a laptop to run it on.....i   			Zanee   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 18:03:08 -0400r- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>s) Subject: Re: Charon-VAX Hobbyist Questiono/ Message-ID: <sl7nmlmbe7f111@corp.supernews.com>c  F I've been playing with it^UI've been *testing* it all afternoon (whileD waiting for my real work to do thing :) and it is great. It does not< support ethernet, but if you put in the .INI file the lines;  ' set DHV_1 LINE[0]="link localhost:5000"s' set DHV_1 LINE[1]="link localhost:5001"k' set DHV_1 LINE[2]="link localhost:5002"a' set DHV_1 LINE[3]="link localhost:5003" ' set DHV_1 LINE[4]="link localhost:5004" ' set DHV_1 LINE[5]="link localhost:5005"i' set DHV_1 LINE[6]="link localhost:5006"a  F you can then telnet to your local host on one of those ports. You thenE come in on a TXA port. I have not yet tested it, but I should be able E to get KERMIT on the box and then I'll be laughing. FTP (or KERMIT) arF .ZIP file down to the PC, then KERMIT it over to the Charon system. ItF has been a long time since I looked at the KERMIT client for VMS but IA may even be able to KERMIT from VMS to the Charon VAX directly, IkC understand from a recent post by Frank da Cruz that KERMIT can copys1 entire directory trees if you go from VMS to VMS.a  F You may even be able to write a CD (or other removable media) from VMSF and mount it on the PC, then use the CD2image program to convert it to= an image. I have been able to read a couple of CD's this way.b  A A word of caution though. I tried from my local PC doing a telnet F (using PowerTerm) to 127.0.0.1 port 5000, that caused Charon VAX to doC a Dr. Watson, telneting to my DNS name (from either my PC or a VAX)mE works fine. I haven't played^H^H^H^H^H^Htested enough to see if I canbF replicate the problem, or if it was something else getting in the way.  D Give it a shot, the download is only 1.6MB or so. During the installE it creates a RD54 image for you but it is empty so you don't have thes5 overhead of downloading all of VMS like the demo did.    -- Peter Weaver   Zane H. Healy wrote in message* <_EQ45.76$9e.15733@typhoon.aracnet.com>...@ >I see that a Hobbyist version of the Charon-VAX emulator is now
 available.D >Unfortunatly it will most likely be at least a few days before I'll beF >able to find time to download it and try it out.  With that in mind I wascB >hoping someone could answer one question for me.  Does it support	 Ethernet?sE >If not how on earth am I supposed to get data back and forth betweeni one of >my real VMS systems?m >i2 >Now I just need to get a laptop to run it on..... >v > Zane >g   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 02:00:36 GMTw0 From: Timothy Stark <sword7@grace.speakeasy.org>) Subject: Re: Charon-VAX Hobbyist Question 8 Message-ID: <8DU45.265607$VR.3887445@news5.giganews.com>  1 Zane H. Healy <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote:oM > I see that a Hobbyist version of the Charon-VAX emulator is now available.  I > Unfortunatly it will most likely be at least a few days before I'll be  K > able to find time to download it and try it out.  With that in mind I was N > hoping someone could answer one question for me.  Does it support Ethernet? M > If not how on earth am I supposed to get data back and forth between one ofm > my real VMS systems?  @ No, it does not support Ethernet.  It is strictly closed system.   -- Tim Stark   -- ,C Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.org, sword7@firesword7.neteJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 01:56:32 GMTn0 From: Timothy Stark <sword7@grace.speakeasy.org>% Subject: Charon-VAX: Hobbyist Editiona8 Message-ID: <kzU45.219711$MB.3967018@news6.giganews.com>   Hello Folks:  H Today I checked Charon-VAX web site and found out that beta-test versionH was released today.  I downloaded a copy from its web site and installed	 it but...   G I am not happy with the hobbyist edition because I found out that it isCB severally crippled.  They said that they left out several featuresF like taping handles, ethernet interface, etc for the hobbyist edition.H Without taping handle and ethernet interface,  I can't import and exportC my data within Charon-VAX!  Yes, it is very closed system.  Beware!i  C However, I already am continuing to develop my full open-source VAXg9 emulator from a scratch under my current PDP-10 emulator.e   Any suggestions?   -- Tim Stark   -- xC Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.org, sword7@firesword7.netlJ --------------------------------------------------------------------------F "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Jun 2000 18:39:26 GMT' From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb)g/ Subject: Re: Compaq paying for software ports ?e0 Message-ID: <8j0asu$c6m$1@aquila.news.mdx.ac.uk>  i In article <39538E1C.3627A063@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:7 >Bill Todd wrote:tK >> Nope.  Not unless it's 'Unix98' compliant, which succeeded Unix95, whichtM >> succeeded POSIX:  there *are* standards, and compliance is becoming fairly L >> common, though systems of course reserve the ability to offer proprietary! >> *extensions* to the standards.  >> W@ >> > Because there are no such thing as "full unix compliance" ! >> rK >> As I understand it, Unix98 *defines* full unix compliance, as Unix95 dideF >> before it.  Before that, the standard existed, but was called POSIX >> compliance. > 7 >Yes, but how many Unix programs are Unix98 compliant ?b >t >My guess is: almost none !o > I >Which means that Unix98 compliance (never heard of that before, but ...)  >would be of very little use.S >2E >> > You can be source code compatible with Tru64 4.0D or source codef( >> > compatible with Solaris 2.6 or .... >> lF >> Or source code compatiable with *all* that comply with a particularM >> standard, just as long as you limit your use to interfaces defined by thatw >> standard. >w
 >Yes, but ...s >n >Arne     K To be able to advertise itself as being Unix, systems did (a few years ago)m? have to comply with a number of standards which included Posix.-L I am not uptodate with the latest position on this but would suspect that inL order to call itself Unix a system must now comply with the unix98 standard.  I However although a system must support these standards to be able to callrN itself Unix that does not mean that all it's programs have to be written with  these standards in mind.  E The presence of this requirement for standards compliance means that eI Linux cannot call itself a Unix system (Since as far as I am aware it has K never been submitted for compliance tests - whether it is compliant or not o is anyones guess).  J When the Compliance test just included Posix and a few other Standards VMSI was very close to being compliant (at the time it was much more compliantt0 than SUN and a number of other "Unix" vendors). L I believe one of IBMs non-unix systems actually passed the compliance tests.     
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 21:56:01 GMTd' From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb)s/ Subject: Re: Compaq paying for software ports ?d0 Message-ID: <8J0ASU$C6M$1@AQUILA.NEWS.MDX.AC.UK>  i In article <39538E1C.3627A063@gtech.com>, Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes:r >Bill Todd wrote: K >> Nope.  Not unless it's 'Unix98' compliant, which succeeded Unix95, which M >> succeeded POSIX:  there *are* standards, and compliance is becoming fairly2L >> common, though systems of course reserve the ability to offer proprietary! >> *extensions* to the standards.U >>@ >> > Because there are no such thing as "full unix compliance" ! >>K >> As I understand it, Unix98 *defines* full unix compliance, as Unix95 didsF >> before it.  Before that, the standard existed, but was called POSIX >> compliance. >d7 >Yes, but how many Unix programs are Unix98 compliant ?  >k >My guess is: almost none !d > I >Which means that Unix98 compliance (never heard of that before, but ...)r >would be of very little use.S >aE >> > You can be source code compatible with Tru64 4.0D or source codel( >> > compatible with Solaris 2.6 or .... >>F >> Or source code compatiable with *all* that comply with a particularM >> standard, just as long as you limit your use to interfaces defined by thata >> standard. >a
 >Yes, but ...o >h >Arne     K To be able to advertise itself as being Unix, systems did (a few years ago)s? have to comply with a number of standards which included Posix. L I am not uptodate with the latest position on this but would suspect that inL order to call itself Unix a system must now comply with the unix98 standard.  I However although a system must support these standards to be able to calloM itself Unix that does not mean that all it's programs have to be written withh these standards in mind.  D The presence of this requirement for standards compliance means thatI Linux cannot call itself a Unix system (Since as far as I am aware it haskJ never been submitted for compliance tests - whether it is compliant or not is anyones guess).  J When the Compliance test just included Posix and a few other Standards VMSI was very close to being compliant (at the time it was much more compliant3/ than SUN and a number of other "Unix" vendors).nL I believe one of IBMs non-unix systems actually passed the compliance tests.    
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 16:13:13 GMT*, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: DECnet*+ Message-ID: <gSRe0g+Ifz4U@eisner.decus.org>o  E In article <8il7ik$ha7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, umayxa3@my-deja.com writes:t@ > I come from a Solaris/WinNT environment. I'm not familiar with> > VMS or DECnet. I can use the DECnet File Transfer Utility onB > my Win98 PC to FTP from the VMS Alpha server to my local machine8 > but I cannot ping the alpha machine from a DOS prompt.  G Lesson 1:  DECnet is not a TCP/IP protocol or TCP/IP application.  Ping F and FTP are TCP/IP applications.  The DECnet file transfer utility for4 DOS implements DNA, the DECnet file access protocol.  @ > Can someone help me figure this system out? I want to FTP fromE > the Alpha machine directly to a remote server. If I can ftp throughiG > DECnet, I should be able to "see" the Alpha server from a DOS prompt.   H If you have a TCP/IP stack running on your Alpha, then you can use thoseG TCP/IP applications to access it from your remote server.  If not, thenpD perhaps your remote server is alsorunning DECnet (it's available for* just about every server you can think of).  D One way or another you need to get a common network protocol runningF between the Alpha and the remote server.  TCP/IP, DECnet, ISO/OSI, ...  G There are products which will perform protocol level gatewaying betweenn@ disimilar protocols, but generally there's no advantage to going indirectly.   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationa= Hubble Space Telescope Payload  | Federal Sector, Civil Group6E  Flight Software Team           | please remove ".aspm" when replying6   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 16:13:13 GMT0, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Re: DECnetu+ Message-ID: <GSRE0G+IFZ4U@EISNER.DECUS.ORG>5  E In article <8il7ik$ha7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, umayxa3@my-deja.com writes:a@ > I come from a Solaris/WinNT environment. I'm not familiar with> > VMS or DECnet. I can use the DECnet File Transfer Utility onB > my Win98 PC to FTP from the VMS Alpha server to my local machine8 > but I cannot ping the alpha machine from a DOS prompt.  G Lesson 1:  DECnet is not a TCP/IP protocol or TCP/IP application.  PingoF and FTP are TCP/IP applications.  The DECnet file transfer utility for4 DOS implements DNA, the DECnet file access protocol.  @ > Can someone help me figure this system out? I want to FTP fromE > the Alpha machine directly to a remote server. If I can ftp through G > DECnet, I should be able to "see" the Alpha server from a DOS prompt.t  H If you have a TCP/IP stack running on your Alpha, then you can use thoseG TCP/IP applications to access it from your remote server.  If not, then-D perhaps your remote server is alsorunning DECnet (it's available for* just about every server you can think of).  D One way or another you need to get a common network protocol runningF between the Alpha and the remote server.  TCP/IP, DECnet, ISO/OSI, ...  G There are products which will perform protocol level gatewaying betweenr@ disimilar protocols, but generally there's no advantage to going indirectly.p  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationa= Hubble Space Telescope Payload  | Federal Sector, Civil GroupeE  Flight Software Team           | please remove ".aspm" when replyingE   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:17:24 GMTY, From: "Bart Zorn" <B.Zorn@TrueBit.nospam.nl>+ Subject: Re: DECNET-Plus, DTSS, NTP and UTCt* Message-ID: <8IVV3K$M8H$1@BUTY.WANADOO.NL>  L The example as shipped with some versions of VMS don't work anymore with VMS' v7.2 and TCP/IP V5.0. I don't know why.t  K However, I happen to know that inside TCP/IP engineering there is a versioniB which does work. Possibly it will show up with TCP/IP V5.1, in the unsupported section.   Regards,  	 Bart Zornc OpenVMS consultant TrueBit B.V.  ? "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote in messagea$ news:B57875D0-860C@165.247.40.115...- > On Thu, Jun 22, 2000 10:54 AM, Hoff Hoffman* <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam>e	 >  wrote:n > > 6 > >In article <M0Ze4F51Pb3r@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>,G > >Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX:  > 926-3515)-
 > >writes:L > >:        I need to bring  up  a  bunch  of  old issues here: DECNET-Plus,L > >:    DTSS,  NTP,  but  also  UTC and the  various  SYS$TIMEZONE*  logical > >:    names... > >... > >D > >  If it were me:c > >3J > >  Shut off DTSS, and use NTP for synchronization.  While it is possible toH > >  get DTSS to query NTP for the time, the example code that permitted this >tK > >  to be set up was found buggy and also assumed an old NTP, and was thuseH > >  removed from the DTSS kit a while back.  (I'd have prefered to have seen+ > >  it rewritten, but that didn't happen.)T >o > !?!? >tI > I'm using the example dtss time server that gets its time from NTP.  It " > appears to work fine.  What bug? >,K > This is a useful feature, and I with the example program would come back.oJ > (I found it in the vax installation, but not the alpha one.  It's fairly0 > senile VAX C, but I got it to go using DEC C.) >a > ---------------------------r > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.coms >g >C >r   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 23:34:04 GMTr' From: nickerson@pundit.ds.boeing.com () - Subject: Deleting system files [...]*.*_old;*n( Message-ID: <FwMs4s.391@news.boeing.com>   hi,   @ OpenVMS 7.2-1 on AlphaServer 2100 5/300 with 2.1 Gb system disk;? I've just gone through a full update and patch cycle; now that .@ things have calmed down I happened to look at the loading of my B system disk; it's bad - about 2% free = 90K blocks; this is after . purging and deleting all non open *.log files;  @ so my question is: should I blithely delete [...]*.*_old;* filesD which I've found in great profusion (200k blocks) on my system disk;< or is there good reason to hang on to them all - or in part;  ? any other ideas beyond secondary pagefile and removing sysdump;d   --bn (Bart Nickerson)n nickerson@pundit.ds.boeing.com (206) 662-0183   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 19:36:36 -0500-) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net>01 Subject: Re: Deleting system files [...]*.*_old;*s/ Message-ID: <sl808itae7f110@corp.supernews.com>s  9 Bart Nickerson <nickerson@pundit.ds.boeing.company> wrotey. >in message news:FwMs4s.391@news.boeing.com... >wB > OpenVMS 7.2-1 on AlphaServer 2100 5/300 with 2.1 Gb system disk;@ > I've just gone through a full update and patch cycle; now thatA > things have calmed down I happened to look at the loading of mylC > system disk; it's bad - about 2% free = 90K blocks; this is afterH0 > purging and deleting all non open *.log files; >=B > so my question is: should I blithely delete [...]*.*_old;* filesF > which I've found in great profusion (200k blocks) on my system disk;> > or is there good reason to hang on to them all - or in part;  I The first question is, do you have a good Image backup of the system diskd& before you delete something important?  J An OpenVMS upgrade usually does not produce more than a handful of *.*_oldB files, so 200k of them is likely to come from a local application.  K Have you done an ANALYZE/DISK/REPAIR SYS$SYSDEVICE: until it reports if youd have quotas enabled or not?d  A > any other ideas beyond secondary pagefile and removing sysdump;M  J One page file per physical disk is usually advised.  A second one would beL present if someone needed to expand the pagefile space with out scheduling a0 reboot, and did not have space on a second disk.   -Johnw wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------   Date: 24 Jun 2000 03:52:20 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)1 Subject: Re: Deleting system files [...]*.*_old;*m, Message-ID: <8j1b9k$a2f@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  R In article <FwMs4s.391@news.boeing.com>, nickerson@pundit.ds.boeing.com () writes: >oA >OpenVMS 7.2-1 on AlphaServer 2100 5/300 with 2.1 Gb system disk; @ >I've just gone through a full update and patch cycle; now that A >things have calmed down I happened to look at the loading of my  C >system disk; it's bad - about 2% free = 90K blocks; this is after r/ >purging and deleting all non open *.log files;t  K It might be worth investing in a larger disk.  Although that system is old iL enough that maybe you'd want to wait and put the money into its replacement.     >lA >so my question is: should I blithely delete [...]*.*_old;* files E >which I've found in great profusion (200k blocks) on my system disk;t= >or is there good reason to hang on to them all - or in part;c    H Assuming that you did an image backup before the update then you're safeL enough removing the _old files.  You can always pull them in again from tapeI if you absolutely had to.  That said, I just replaced the driver for the cI Elsa card with the one I had used previously, as the one the 7.2-1 update8K installed had at least two bugs, one of which caused the DECwindows server rG to crash. It was certainly convenient being able to do that with a copylE rather than a retrieval from tape.  Hmm, come to think of it, there'stH another bug that showed up at the same time with select(), so maybe keep the C RTL bits about too.   K You might start with purging [...]*.*_old, presumably if you have more thannF one version you have not been using the older ones in quite some time, and so can live without them.t   > @ >any other ideas beyond secondary pagefile and removing sysdump;  B Got space on another disk?  You could back up all the *_old files,; remove the originals, and then maybe compress the save set.-     Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech v   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 03:03:04 +02001. From: "Marc Van Dyck" <marc.vandyck@skynet.be>- Subject: DFU V2.6 crashed my system today ...3* Message-ID: <8j1175$ajm$1@news0.skynet.be>  J A little note to let the audience know that there are still some potential3 problems with even the more recent versions of DFU.o  H Today I used it to undelete a bunch of modparams include files that wereI accidentally deleted from sys$common:[sysexe], and near the conclusion oftI the undelete command (i.e. after it asked for all the confirmations), thetI system crashed with an 'invalid XQP function' error, or something to thatiK effect. After reboot, I saw that some of the files I asked to undelete were I back, but not all. Given that it is a production system, I didn't care toi
 try again.  I I have a dump and will give it to my Compaq service engineer when he willnA visit us next wednesday. Now, is this worth mentioning to the DFUn maintainer, and if yes, how ?e   Marc.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 14:41:37 -0700y7 From: David D Miller <ddmiller@notes.west.raytheon.com>- Subject: Digital Press plansF Message-ID: <OF8D9EC420.DA0A5B1A-ON07256907.007718FE@rsc.raytheon.com>   Folks,  J I've been exchanging e-mail with Pam Chester of Digital Press recently.  I
 thought you'do$ be interested in what her plans are.  D If you have comments I'm sure Pam would like to hear them.  Write to pam.chester@bhusa.comk   dave.g  E ---------------------- Forwarded by David D Miller/RWS/Raytheon/US on6/ 06/23/2000 02:27 PM ---------------------------C   Hi Dave!  H My boss and I were up at Compaq in Nashua earlier this week to meet with the @ OpenVMS group there. They feel we are in the midst of an OpenVMSD renaissance, and are actively supporting the revision of some of our currentiK titles, and looking for new books too, as well as seeking college kids withlJ some knowledge of OpenVMS who might be looking for employment with OpenVMSF customers. (We are delighted, since this is a long-awaited insight for= Compaq--that customers need and want books on the product...)   G Compaq would love to get a line on college grads with VMS experience soXH their customers can try to hire them, I gather! So it could be a win-win situation here.s  K The newly appointed liaison between Compaq and Digital Press will be MargiehK Sherlock, who's now a senior member of technical staff in the OpenVMS groupr4 and has written a couple of books for Digital Press.  D Yeah, BH, or at least Digital Press, has been trying to get Compaq's support*G for our publishing program for a couple of years now. But at their lastt TechE Advisory Forum with their customers, they got blasted for the lack ofn recentH books and revisions, so now they are very very friendly. Works for me...   Pamm   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 01:00:10 GMTn2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>7 Subject: Re: Disk taking itself offline during install?s3 Message-ID: <uKT45.95$9e.17882@typhoon.aracnet.com>h  . David R Barnes <dbproductions@juno.com> wrote:G > I have experienced this on my own 2 VLC's AND my vaxstation 4000/60. tG > From what I can determine, there is SOMETHING in the scsi firmware oniK > these machines that does NOT like a NON-DEC drive , be it tape or disk(my   C I'm using a non-DEC Hard Drive in my VLC, I think it's a Fujitsu, ImL previously had the disk in may AlphaStation 200 4/233 as a second drive, andL it had problems spinning up in that system.  It's been perfectly happy in myF VLC though since it's the only HD.  I did have trouble with my floaterE CD-ROM drive though, which is a Panasonic 4x, that I've used on other- OpenVMS systems.  K Currently the VLC is the only DEC System besides my PDP-11/73 using non-DECC SCSI hard drives.r   			Zane-   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2000 15:04:32 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)! Subject: Re: Google full of beans + Message-ID: <KzfFDB+VEv9P@eisner.decus.org>W  X In article <w6zv0pkcClSY@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes: > ? > 	The Intel Google e-Business link states "200 million pages".e< > 	Google (by necessity) supports stop words, so "the" "and"A > 	"of" etc. aren't indexed so exact phrase matches don't cut it.gD > 	nitpicking?  Perhaps... but the 200 million is baloney.  A simple7 > 	search for "dog" on Google (all languages) and other  > 	search servcies:e >  > 		Service			Resultsx >  > 		Google			389000  > 		Northern Light		3146027n > 		AltaVista		3344440 >  >   > 	Further evidence Google's "200 million" pages claim is a bean= 	pile can be deduced by doing a power search on altavista.comg@ 	(English only) for the letter "a" , 224 millioin pages are hit.  = 	Would it be a statistical mis-step to claim that Google more,% 	likely has 30 million pages indexed?e   				Rob>   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 14:31:03 -0400m" From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org>! Subject: Re: Google full of beansh: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000623142524.00c776e0@24.8.96.48>  + At 03:04 PM 6/23/00 -0500, Rob Young wrote: F >         Would it be a statistical mis-step to claim that Google more. >         likely has 30 million pages indexed?  J Probably, yes, though I can't find any claim as to the number of pages in  their database at the moment.e   					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"-------------------s2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and even ;                                       teddy bears get drunk    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 14:20:00 -0400e+ From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> ! Subject: Re: Google full of beansi1 Message-ID: <39537210.4374D352@trailing-edge.com>t   Rob Young wrote: > F >         The Intel Google e-Business link states "200 million pages".C >         Google (by necessity) supports stop words, so "the" "and"cH >         "of" etc. aren't indexed so exact phrase matches don't cut it.K >         nitpicking?  Perhaps... but the 200 million is baloney.  A simplee> >         search for "dog" on Google (all languages) and other >         search servcies: > 1 >                 Service                 Results  > 0 >                 Google                  3890001 >                 Northern Light          3146027 1 >                 AltaVista               3344440a  = Google and HotBot and several other search engines tend to bet= more of a "best of" collection rather than "everything on thei9 web" collection.  There is a demand for the "best of" andl9 "most popular only" engines, as evidenced by the way thaty= HotBot purposefully drops older pages (even though they mightS> still be relevant, if they're 3 or 6 months old they're likely to get dropped.)  E Even Altavista and Northern Light don't even try to index "everythingrA on the web" anymore, though they do tend to be more complete thane? some others.  I've analyzed the way that Altavista and NorthernhB Light do their web page collecting at the sites that I administer,8 and there are many indexed pages that they've never hit.  A There are some search engines that do *try* to index everything -uG Webtop follows every link no excluded by the robots file, in particular B - but these search engines aren't so good at indexing.  Them's the breaks!b  C Gone are the days where I could just put a phrase I remembered fromr> a Usenet post or a web page into Altavista and have it take meA exactly to where the phrase came from.  Those days were gone 4 or  5 years ago, in fact.    Tim.   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2000 16:06:58 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)! Subject: Re: Google full of beans-+ Message-ID: <d0WY9e2vBfcz@eisner.decus.org>o  _ In article <4.3.2.7.0.20000623142524.00c776e0@24.8.96.48>, Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> writes:a- > At 03:04 PM 6/23/00 -0500, Rob Young wrote: G >>         Would it be a statistical mis-step to claim that Google more-/ >>         likely has 30 million pages indexed?r > L > Probably, yes, though I can't find any claim as to the number of pages in  > their database at the moment.n >   M http://www.intel.com/ebusiness/estrategies/casestudies/snapshots/google_p.htm   *                                   Solution1                             Off the Shelf, Vastlys  F "Google may be the ultimate scale-out proposition. The company employsO redundant arrays of inexpensive servers (RAIS) to tap into an index between oneDN and two terabytes (1,000 gigabytes) in size and consisting of over 200 million Web pages.".  G 	Off the Shelf, Vastly.  Pleez.  How about:  Off the Shelf and Over the : 	Top.  I went out to alltheweb.com and they have about 3.1F 	million pages containing "dog".  Seems to me that Google exaggerateth
 	muchly...   	Other search results:  , 	alltheweb	Northern Light		Google		AltaVista  - "a"	171 million	151 million		N/A		224 milliong3 shelf	990 thousand	893 thou		265 thou	541 thou  (1)a, vastly  216 thou	219 thou		157 thou	220 thou3 clinton	2.4 million	1.6 million		386 thou	1.76 milln, inculcate 18 thou	16 thou			13 thou		17 thou  > 	Tim seems to be right on... Google is indexing "interesting"  	pages.e   				Robc  J (1)  Since it appears AV contains more pages than alltheweb, alltheweb may 	be matching stems.d   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2000 16:34:30 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)! Subject: Re: Google full of beans-+ Message-ID: <eHMz6sjZaaKU@eisner.decus.org>-  X In article <w0ITrPYCfLGD@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes:  , 	alltheweb	Northern Light		Google		AltaVista  , then	30.2 mill	20.6 mill		7.4 mill	34.6 mill  @ 	How about since "then" is in about 15% of the articles (AV and < 	alltheweb are 17.5 % and 15% respectively), Google contains) 	50 million documents?  50 million it is.l   				RobT   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2000 16:23:17 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)! Subject: Re: Google full of beansI+ Message-ID: <w0ITrPYCfLGD@eisner.decus.org>e  _ In article <4.3.2.7.0.20000623142524.00c776e0@24.8.96.48>, Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> writes:w- > At 03:04 PM 6/23/00 -0500, Rob Young wrote:oG >>         Would it be a statistical mis-step to claim that Google more / >>         likely has 30 million pages indexed?e > L > Probably, yes, though I can't find any claim as to the number of pages in  > their database at the moment.e >   M http://www.intel.com/ebusiness/estrategies/casestudies/snapshots/google_p.htm   < 	One more interesting search.. searching for "then".  Anyone 	a statastician?    , 	alltheweb	Northern Light		Google		AltaVista  - "a"	171 million	151 million		N/A		224 million:3 shelf	990 thousand	893 thou		265 thou	541 thou  (1)$, vastly  216 thou	219 thou		157 thou	220 thou3 clinton	2.4 million	1.6 million		386 thou	1.76 mill , inculcate 18 thou	16 thou			13 thou		17 thou  , then	30.2 mill	20.6 mill		7.4 mill	34.6 mill     				Roba  J (1)  Since it appears AV contains more pages than alltheweb, alltheweb may 	be matching stems.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 14:07:35 -0400r- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>i6 Subject: Re: How 2 unpack MIME mail attachments in VMS, Message-ID: <3953A766.F339E59B@videotron.ca>  J > > Does anyone know a way to unpack (decode) MIME file attachments within > > VMS?   MAIL> EXTRACT temp.tmp	 MAIL>EXIT  $MC MIME MIME>OPEN TEMP.TMP MIME>EXTRACT	 MIME>EXITo    P Question: why does MIME clear the screen when it starts ? That is very annoying.   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Jun 2000 18:13:34 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)6 Subject: Re: How 2 unpack MIME mail attachments in VMS. Message-ID: <8j09ce$op6$1@info.service.rug.nl>  5 In article <3953A766.F339E59B@videotron.ca>, JF Mezeib' <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: p  L > > > Does anyone know a way to unpack (decode) MIME file attachments within
 > > > VMS? >c > MAIL> EXTRACT temp.tmp
 >MAIL>EXIT
 > $MC MIME > MIME>OPEN TEMP.TMP > MIME>EXTRACT > MIME>EXITa  E Didn't work out of the box for me; will investigate when I have more n time.   H > Question: why does MIME clear the screen when it starts ? That is very > annoying.   - Why does it not have a command-recall buffer?y   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Jun 2000 21:59:57 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)6 Subject: Re: How 2 unpack MIME mail attachments in VMS, Message-ID: <8j0mkt$t72@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  U In article <01JQY7RYG8AQB61SSI@sysdev.exchange.de>, ZINSER@sysdev.exchange.de writes:b >Hello!t >qI >> Does anyone know a way to unpack (decode) MIME file attachments withins >> VMS?f >> oD >> I can extract a message from VMS mail, transfer it to DOS and use' >> MUNPACK. I would like a cleaner way.e >b" >	How about m(un)pack for OpenVMS?@ >	Have a look at http://www.decus.de:8080/www/vms/sw/mpack.htmlx >r  I That's what I generally use too.  I don't recall what it does with bogus pK file names though.  Some of these applications give up on "blah.foo.tar.gz" I and others convert it to "blah_foo_tar.gz".  If munpack is of the former ;L type you'll have to edit the text file to change the file name to something  kosher before you unpack.f   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edur? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 19:03:43 -0700o! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comg3 Subject: Humour link for the anti-MS among us......*C Message-ID: <OF23ED7F1A.C37C4623-ON88256908.000B53A8@HEALTHNET.COM>t  # http://www.badtech.com/a/0/4/9.htmlE   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 13:32:25 -0600 (MDT)n) From: John Nebel <nebel@athena.csdco.com>  Subject: Re: IMAP4G Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0006231329480.28723-100000@athena.csdco.com>   4 Compaq has "Office Server" - never tried it myself.   # http://www.digital.com/info/SP6149/i  
 John Nebel    ( On Fri, 23 Jun 2000, Mark E. Levy wrote:   > Hello, > E > Other than PMDF or the junk that comes with Multinet or TCPWare, iss > there.J > _good_ IMAP4 server for OpenVMS, either shareware or commercial product? >  > TIA. >  > -- $G > ---------------------------------------------------------------------e > Mark E. Levy, President) > FSINet, Inc. > 800-827-6085 x202S > 847-753-6832 fax
 > www.fsi.net  > mark@fsi.netG > ---------------------------------------------------------------------l >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 17:27:06 -04002- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a Subject: Re: IMAP4, Message-ID: <3953D61B.CE19DD7C@videotron.ca>   "Mark E. Levy" wrote:tE > Other than PMDF or the junk that comes with Multinet or TCPWare, ist > thereyJ > _good_ IMAP4 server for OpenVMS, either shareware or commercial product?  J Compaq's Office server has IMAP and POP support, as well as character cell interface, and MAPI interfaces.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 01:14:24 +0500n From: Dan <dan@vrx.net>u- Subject: Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?)d' Message-ID: <3953C520.A54C34F0@vrx.net>n  & --------------E5CABEF0178992C38C7CE9CE* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bite  % World's greatest hacker? I think not.86 Anyone knows social engineering 101, it doesn't count.A and using some well-known exploit you downloaded off some website  doesn't count either.c  C VMS wasn't that hard to get into, getting the source code is a nicer trick,B but with all those open doors on EASYNET, well, that doesn't count either.   F cripes I remember some places having a "help" and/or "guest" accounts.I and pick any university or college at the beginning of a term, dollars ton donutsA the student account passwords were identical to the usernames, ore	 sometimese6 slight modifications (nothing too terribly difficult).  G So, yes, without a well-thought out security policy and procedures, and  withoutm7 carefully minded admins, any system is open to hacking.g  I I'd say Kevin never got into a "Plan 9" OS, as a guess.  I think the ideay
 that thereH was only ONE system he couldn't get into is entirely wrong actually. I'd bet dollarsrG to donuts there were several. Did he ever hack a Sentry70 ? I doubt it.y	 How aboutaH a "cyber" or "prime" system ? A cray ? A MAC network? Amiga network? how about cp/m ?  I anyhow, I think it's overstated, he wasn't that great, more like "ho hum"v   Dan.   Peter Weaver wrote:d  ! > John Nebel wrote in message ...i > >e	 > >Peter,  > > G > >I called the Office of the Chairman of the Senate Government AffairstB > >Committee (Fred Thompson) and they promised to e-mail a hearing > >transcript. > >hG > >If it actually arrives, I'll put it up on an ftp server and post thef > >relevant bit here.s > 	 > Thanks.s >aH > >Interestingly enough, the aid answering the phone knew about Mitnick. >eH > Exactly my point, my Mother knows nothing about computers but she knewE > that WIN95 was the greatest thing ever created in August of 95, shetE > knew when the ILOVEYOU virus came out and she knows that Mitnick iscB > the world's greatest hacker. A 30 second blurb in prime time (orA > better yet, have Regis ask a contestent "According to Mitnick's-F > testimony in front of the U.S. Congress, what was the only operatingE > system he could not break into? ... Is that your final answer?...")  > would be great for VMS.  >sF > (and before anyone joins in to tell me that Mitnick probably did getG > into VMS somewhere, who cares??? You word the ad right by saying that.; > this is according to his testimony in front of Congress.)d   --" -There are always possibilities...      & --------------E5CABEF0178992C38C7CE9CE) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciiC Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html>/ World's greatest hacker?&nbsp;I&nbsp;think not.i: <br>Anyone knows social engineering 101, it doesn't count.E <br>and using some well-known exploit you downloaded off some websited <br>doesn't count either.lF <p>VMS wasn't that hard to get into, getting the source code is a nice trick,F <br>but with all those open doors on EASYNET, well, that doesn't count either.dN <p>cripes I&nbsp;remember some places having a "help" and/or "guest" accounts.J <br>and pick any university or college at the beginning of a term, dollars	 to donutsoO <br>the student account passwords were identical to the usernames, or sometimesM: <br>slight modifications (nothing too terribly difficult).F <p>So, yes, without a well-thought out security policy and procedures, and withouth; <br>carefully minded admins, any system is open to hacking.qM <p>I'd say Kevin never got into a "Plan 9" OS, as a guess.&nbsp; I&nbsp;thinkr the idea that thereyH <br>was only ONE system he couldn't get into is entirely wrong actually. I'd bet dollars,L <br>to donuts there were several. Did he ever hack a Sentry70 ? I&nbsp;doubt
 it. How about-M <br>a "cyber" or "prime" system ? A cray ? A MAC&nbsp;network? Amiga network?. how about cp/m ?H <p>anyhow, I&nbsp;think it's overstated, he wasn't that great, more like "ho hum" <p>Dan.a <p>Peter Weaver wrote:5 <blockquote TYPE=CITE>John Nebel wrote in message ...e <br>>i <br>>Peter,  <br>>NI <br>>I called the Office of the Chairman of the Senate Government Affairs D <br>>Committee (Fred Thompson) and they promised to e-mail a hearing <br>>transcript. <br>>iI <br>>If it actually arrives, I'll put it up on an ftp server and post the  <br>>relevant bit here.s
 <p>Thanks.I <p>>Interestingly enough, the aid answering the phone knew about Mitnick.tI <p>Exactly my point, my Mother knows nothing about computers but she knewyG <br>that WIN95 was the greatest thing ever created in August of 95, she G <br>knew when the ILOVEYOU virus came out and she knows that Mitnick is D <br>the world's greatest hacker. A 30 second blurb in prime time (orC <br>better yet, have Regis ask a contestent "According to Mitnick's3H <br>testimony in front of the U.S. Congress, what was the only operatingG <br>system he could not break into? ... Is that your final answer?...")g <br>would be great for VMS.YG <p>(and before anyone joins in to tell me that Mitnick probably did getTI <br>into VMS somewhere, who cares??? You word the ad right by saying that J <br>this is according to his testimony in front of Congress.)</blockquote>  
 <pre>--&nbsp;a( -There are always possibilities...</pre>
 &nbsp;</html>2  ( --------------E5CABEF0178992C38C7CE9CE--   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 16:06:29 -0400 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> - Subject: Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?)4/ Message-ID: <sl7gra4be7f165@corp.supernews.com>i  ' > World's greatest hacker? I think not.d  E You and I and most of the people in this group know that he was not a A great hacker, I would say that he was not a hacker at all (by thec> proper definition of hacker), he was a wantabe cracker, a goodD phreaker, and a great social engineer. But if the general population> believes that he is the world's greatest hacker then let them.  A The point is not that he may have gotten into a VMS system in the0B past, the point is that apparently he testified at a congressionalD hearing that VMS was the only system he could not get into. I do notC care if that is true or not, and I seriously doubt that it is true,bA but putting that in an advertisement that the PHB types would see  would be great (IMHO).  @ Before saying that is false advertising, DEC just has to word itD correctly. Look at how many advertisements say "9 out of 10 doctors"F without telling you that they went to 1000 doctors to find their 9 and* then picked one out of 991 to be the 10th.  2 > I'd say Kevin never got into a "Plan 9" OS, as a2 > guess.  I think the idea that there was only ONE/ > system he couldn't get into is entirely wrong:0 > actually. I'd bet dollars to donuts there were4 > several. Did he ever hack a Sentry70 ? I doubt it.4 > How about a "cyber" or "prime" system ? A cray ? A. > MAC network? Amiga network? how about cp/m ?  D If you wanted to you could probably say that he never got into a WINC 95 box either, since it was not released when he went to jail (if iaF remember by dates right, if not then replace WIN 95 with WIN NT or WINE 2000) and according to the conditions of his parole he is not allowed E to touch a computer. Again, the point I am trying to make is not what 3 he did or did not do, but what he testified he did. 1 > anyhow, I think it's overstated, he wasn't that  > great, more like "ho hum"4  ; Agreed, but you are not the one I am trying to sell VMS to.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 11:23:35 +0500c From: Dan <dan@vrx.net>m- Subject: Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?) ' Message-ID: <395453E6.CD006B86@vrx.net>o   Peter Weaver wrote:   G > You and I and most of the people in this group know that he was not amC > great hacker, I would say that he was not a hacker at all (by theh@ > proper definition of hacker), he was a wantabe cracker, a goodF > phreaker, and a great social engineer. But if the general population@ > believes that he is the world's greatest hacker then let them.  3 shrug. perhaps. they're already living an illusion.   C > The point is not that he may have gotten into a VMS system in the D > past, the point is that apparently he testified at a congressionalF > hearing that VMS was the only system he could not get into. I do notE > care if that is true or not, and I seriously doubt that it is true,dC > but putting that in an advertisement that the PHB types would see  > would be great (IMHO).  3 well maybe put this in perspective and correctly...eE he may have gotten into EASYNET and pilfered some of the source code,-C but that does NOT mean he got into VMS. If he said he did not, thism actually makes a lot of sense.oF Do you have any idea how long it would take to analyze the source code andc@ find a weakness, or the level of skill required for such a task, escpecially for G someone who has not seen the OS or ever worked with it, or is not an OS  orG compiler writer, etc etc (there are about a billion more conditions I'm 
 leaving out).a  G Yes, it might be great advertising. it would be kind of fun to see too.c  B > Before saying that is false advertising, DEC just has to word itF > correctly. Look at how many advertisements say "9 out of 10 doctors"H > without telling you that they went to 1000 doctors to find their 9 and, > then picked one out of 991 to be the 10th.  D actually they've changed those ads, they now say "doctors prefer" orE "doctors recommend" or "its the brand doctors themselves use" or somen
 such crap.3 that means they got 1, maybe 2 guys to agree to it.   F > If you wanted to you could probably say that he never got into a WINE > 95 box either, since it was not released when he went to jail (if idH > remember by dates right, if not then replace WIN 95 with WIN NT or WING > 2000) and according to the conditions of his parole he is not allowedrG > to touch a computer. Again, the point I am trying to make is not whati5 > he did or did not do, but what he testified he did.    ok.a  3 > > anyhow, I think it's overstated, he wasn't that  > > great, more like "ho hum". >m= > Agreed, but you are not the one I am trying to sell VMS to.s  " yes, I already use it and love it.  F BTW: if you don't mind there's a VERY old security flaw I found in VMS way way back inlI like 1980 or so, it was still there in 1986-1988 era too. But I'd like to- email it to you (or someone:6 privately) it works very well, for all the usefulness.  D One thing that always bugged me about VMS security is that for a COM> (DCL) program, in order to run it the user normally needed theF READ privilege, which means they could copy it or type it out, or someI such, which I never wanted them to do, even doing tricky bits like makingnD the directory Execute only for the users (a very nice trick indeed!)/ doesn't help if they know the name of the file.i  F Unless this has changed and can be run with just execute set for a DCL (COM) program.   Dan.   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jun 2000 16:47:13 GMT/ From: warren.spencer@alcan.com (Warren Spencer)I7 Subject: Re: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clusters09 Message-ID: <8F5883284warrenspenceralcanco@142.14.12.164>g  
 Hi Francesco,0  K "Shared Nothing" clusters do not allow simultaneous access to a given disk mH by multiple hosts.  "Shared Everything" clusters do, as well as provide K shared simultaneous access to other stuff (hence the "everything").  Other eG stuff, in the OpenVMS world, includes batch and print queues, security c
 info, etc.  G I remember a presentation in Syracuse by Microsoft in 1995 touting the eH _advantages_ of a shared-nothing clusters - most significantly, speed.  I Without the need for a distributed lock manager, speed improves.  That's lF roughly equivalent to saying:  "I'll remove the air conditioner, body I panels, seats, and a bunch of other stuff from my car to improve milage".	  H If you have high reliability requirements, it's important that you boot M multiple CPU's from the same image of the software - ie the same boot disk.   K This is not possible in a Solaris cluster, according to some Sun experts I -H found in the Solaris newsgroup.  They did say that Solaris clusters can K include up to 4 nodes, soon to be 8.  OpenVMS clusters can be much larger, hG of course.  Solaris provides shared access to disks - assuming they're yH served by a disk farm (likely SCSI) - but each system must have its own  system disk.  K Bottom line?  NT Clusters are the el-cheapo version of a real cluster, and  G Sun clusters come much closer to the OpenVMS ones, but still don't get yI there.  Ask your application how much reliability / redundancy it needs, GJ and how much $$$ you've got to spend on it.  If the answer is 10 cents or F less, go for the NT cluster - and remember - you get what you pay for.   ws     -- e Warren Spencer Systems Analyst, Alcan Aluminum Corporation  J << My employer does not necessarily agree with my opinions - neither do I  >>    1 gennai@mx2.iat.cnr.it (Francesco Gennai) wrote in  <XQbWoucmwstb@mx2.iat.cnr.it>:    9 >Where I could find information and possibly a comparisonw: >between OpenVMS clustering and other systems clustering ?< >(Eg.: sharing nothing clusters vs OpenVMS clusters, etc...)F >I'm interested in URLs, books, white papers, personal opinions and so >on....  >r
 >Francesco? >----------                                                     ; >---------- Francesco Gennai                     Internet :w >francesco.gennai @ iat.cnr.it n0 >                                               > >                               http://mail.iat.cnr.it/gennai @ >IAT - CNR                            Phone    : +39-050-3152592@ >Area di Ricerca di Pisa              Fax      : +39-050-3152593 >Via Alfieri, 1t >56010 Ghezzano PISA   ITALY? >----------                                                      >----------    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 17:37:41 -0400/- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s7 Subject: Re: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clustersm, Message-ID: <3953D895.1F954A6C@videotron.ca>   Warren Spencer wrote:nL > Bottom line?  NT Clusters are the el-cheapo version of a real cluster, andH > Sun clusters come much closer to the OpenVMS ones, but still don't getJ > there.  Ask your application how much reliability / redundancy it needs,K > and how much $$$ you've got to spend on it.  If the answer is 10 cents or H > less, go for the NT cluster - and remember - you get what you pay for.  M Ok, but when it comes down to selecting a platform that will meet your needs,uI will the NT and Solaris one fit 99% of people's needs, relegating the VMSMN solution to only the 1% who really need the features missing in NT/Solaris and' thus willing to pay a premium for it ? T  K Seems that VMS would be exclusing itself from a large part of the market if  that were the case.1  E A ferrari might be much better than a yugo/lada, but if all I need isvM something to carry my groceries from the store to home, then the yugo/lada is M more than sufficient and spending all the extra cash for the ferrari would bet a waste.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 23:15:29 GMTo) From: "Neil Rieck" <n.rieck@sympatico.ca>r% Subject: OpenVMS Marketing (00.06.21)-< Message-ID: <lcS45.135546$dK2.2588122@news20.bellglobal.com>   Folks,  L On Wednesday (00.06.21) I attended an OpenVMS presentation by Compaq to Bell: Canada in Montreal. I've listed a few items from my notes:  6 1. 10 million users are estimated to use OpenVMS daily, 2. OpenVMS is #1 in the health care industryG 3. Compaq has no plans to kill OpenVMS because it receives US$4 Billion # annually in OpenVMS related income.DK 4. Compaq has laid out a 12 year plan to actively market OpenVMS (I realizeeJ this does not agree with the 5 year plan found in the white paper found atL http://www.openvms.digital.com/OPENVMS/strategy.html ; the 12 year figure isE either hype -or- something that hasn't yet been officially announced)d    
 Neil Rieck* Kitchener(New Berlin?)/Waterloo/Cambridge, Ontario, Canada.! http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/x6 http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/alpha_diary.html   ------------------------------   Date: 19 Jun 2000 16:19:15 GMT/ From: warren.spencer@alcan.com (Warren Spencer)=% Subject: Re: OpenVMS Software Pricingi9 Message-ID: <8F587173Cwarrenspenceralcanco@142.14.12.164>s   Hi,n  D I got into a battle with my sales rep.  I used to get two hard-copy L publications containing pricing information.  When I re-ordered a couple of L months ago, I found out Compaq killed them.  Went round-n-round with Compaq I for a replacement - hardcopy, softcopy, anything.  They gave me a URL to  & check out, which I haven't done yet.    K It's kinda ironic that I have to argue with a vendor to get a price list.  lK We all know DEQ has trouble marketing, but if they insist on keeping their e+ prices a secret, things can only get worse.h   ws     -- y Warren Spencer Systems Analysta Alcan Aluminum Corporation  J << My employer does not necessarily agree with my opinions - neither do I  >>    F >Where, oh where can I go to get software pricing for OpenVMS softwareJ >(Datatrieve, in particular)?  I searched through Compaq's web site for anI >hour and one-half and couldn't find any.  Their "Store" link takes me toe7 >Beyond.com, where they don't even know OpenVMS exists.r >--"B >Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comB >Smiths Industries, Inc.                   tillman at swdev.si.com> >3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent= >Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"f9 >       This opinion doesn't represent that of my companyC >i >e   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2000 20:44:00 -0500* From: kuhrt@eisner.decus.org (Marty Kuhrt)  Subject: Seagates on VAXstations+ Message-ID: <c+nkoYMD0U3x@eisner.decus.org>a  Z In article <394DA7F6.F87F5655@TSOFT-INC.COM>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > David R Barnes wrote:h >>G >> I have experienced this on my own 2 VLC's AND my vaxstation 4000/60.eH >> From what I can determine, there is SOMETHING in the scsi firmware onL >> these machines that does NOT like a NON-DEC drive , be it tape or disk(myK >> 4000/60 complained the same way when I had a python dat attached and didcJ >> the install).  The funny thing is, if I remove the non dec tape drive ,F >> the install will work fine.  In the case of the VLC where I tried aH >> seagate drive, I removed it and bought a RZ26L for $50.00 instead.  IJ >> then installed the seagate in my 3100 and did an install to it , put it< >> back into the VLC and it was ok... figure that one out??? >> >>                 David BarnesT > M > Interesting.  I previously said I used the Seagate drives with no problems.tO > I'll now ammend that to say that I used them in MicroVAX 3100 systems with notR > problems, not VAXstations.  I'm sure all my VAXstations are using RZ25, RZ26, orO > RZ28 drives, at least for the system disk.  I have used the non-DEC drives in'R > the VAXstation 4000 models 60 and 90 as data disks.  So, this may be the answer. > R > Note that DSP drives should work as well as the RZ drives.  Same thing.  Haven't > tested this. > N > I've got some RZ25-E drives sitting around.  You could build on this, if youL > don't have any other systems, then image backup to the target system disk.C > RZ26, DSP3105, and DSP3107 drives are going rather cheap on EBAY.d >  > Dave  > I have three Seagate drives in the VAXstation 4060 I use as my< workstation, a ST12400N, ST51080N, and ST1480.  I have seven= Seagates on the VAXstation 3100 next to my desk.  I have a 4GcB Conner drive on my VLC at home.  I haven't had any problems, yet.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 18:28:26 -0700a5 From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <noc@midwest-microwave.com> $ Subject: Re: Seagates on VAXstations5 Message-ID: <39540EBA.6761BBE1@midwest-microwave.com>l  @ > I have three Seagate drives in the VAXstation 4060 I use as my> > workstation, a ST12400N, ST51080N, and ST1480.  I have seven? > Seagates on the VAXstation 3100 next to my desk.  I have a 4G C > Conner drive on my VLC at home.  I haven't had any problems, yet.i  W I too experienced a very recent rash of Seagate failures with two drives on my hobbyisteV systems at home; a ST12400N which is labeled as a RZ28B-E and a more generic ST51080N.  ^ What was irritating about both, and in jest I blame my wife, but both drives died the same day\ after the area near them was vacuumed - the equipment was powered off.  No advanced noticed,[ but neither drive would spin up the next day.  It's as if they seized.  Can't say that thish[ has happened before with Seagate, or any other drive, perhaps simply Murphy and the odds oft# twenty years finally catching up...e   Barryn   --  ? Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIOm  A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 04:07:04 GMTn2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>$ Subject: Re: Seagates on VAXstations3 Message-ID: <ItW45.96$9e.19482@typhoon.aracnet.com>   4 Barry Treahy, Jr. <noc@midwest-microwave.com> wrote:` > What was irritating about both, and in jest I blame my wife, but both drives died the same day^ > after the area near them was vacuumed - the equipment was powered off.  No advanced noticed,] > but neither drive would spin up the next day.  It's as if they seized.  Can't say that this.] > has happened before with Seagate, or any other drive, perhaps simply Murphy and the odds of-% > twenty years finally catching up...   I Had they been running continously for a long time?  I've seen drives that(H have been running flawlessly for a long time refuse to spin backup after7 having had a chance to cool down after a poweroutage.      			Zane    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 21:19:25 -0700 5 From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <noc@midwest-microwave.com>t$ Subject: Re: Seagates on VAXstations5 Message-ID: <395436CD.F56A7368@midwest-microwave.com>i   "Zane H. Healy" wrote:  6 > Barry Treahy, Jr. <noc@midwest-microwave.com> wrote:b > > What was irritating about both, and in jest I blame my wife, but both drives died the same day` > > after the area near them was vacuumed - the equipment was powered off.  No advanced noticed,_ > > but neither drive would spin up the next day.  It's as if they seized.  Can't say that this _ > > has happened before with Seagate, or any other drive, perhaps simply Murphy and the odds ofh' > > twenty years finally catching up...w > K > Had they been running continously for a long time?  I've seen drives thathJ > have been running flawlessly for a long time refuse to spin backup after7 > having had a chance to cool down after a poweroutage.e  a Long time is relative I suppose, the ST12400N was an old drive, but the other was a new one, lessn_ than a year old.  As for as time spinning, they had been up for a week since the last shutdown.h   Barryc   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Jun 2000 18:06:52 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)I Subject: Re: select: bad file number, also slaughter of DECwindows servera, Message-ID: <8j08vs$kpu@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  a In article <8irivi$16m@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes: I >I sat down today to use on OpenVMS 7.2-1 on a DS10 a program based on antC >old port of mine of Xforms 0.88.  I had not tried it since OpenVMSe >6.2 on a 2100 server. >tE >It didn't work in a big way - it brought down the DECwindows server!a > B >So I set out to rebuild Xforms, figuring it must be some sort of ? >incompatibility with the newer OS.  After it all built cleanlyeC >(except for a few picky warnings, like DOLLARID) I tried it again.: >: >Boom. >a? >So I redirected the test program to an SGI display where I saw  >a long series ofe >  >  select:  bad file number  >p
 >messages.   More info - very relevant.  H I just realized that when I installed the VMS721_UPDATE V1.0 it replacedG DECW$SERVER_DDZ_GZ.EXE, so I went to compare the update driver with then% one I got from the CSC in Februrary: e  K  .exe version    source            xforms programs  too much text for fill eK                                    kill server?     in box overwrites self?n6  DW V7.1-961126  CSC in Feb        No               No7  DW V7.1-991117  update            Yes              Yesr  ; Conclusion, if you have a DS10 you probably do NOT want thee( DECW$SERVER_DDZ_GZ.EXE that it installs.  D Unfortunately, even though the exploding X11 server has been fixed, G the "select: bad file number" messages remain.  Those must have come in D with some other part of the update.  In the meantime, I suppose that there's always    $ define/user sys$error nla0:  E I'm going to need a database program soon to keep track of all of them( bug reports I'm having to send in :-(.     Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech uJ **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 20:21:23 GMTa( From: Mark Saad <2saad_m@spcvxa.spc.edu> Subject: TCP/IP H Message-ID: <Pine.PMDF.3.91.1000619151734.149792A-100000@spcvxa.spc.edu>  E I am setting up OVMS hobbyiest kit on a Alpha server  4/266 and I am uF wondering what is the license pak I need to set up tcp/ip. I have the G hobbyiest paks from Montigar software but I don't see one labled tcp/iphG and I don't want to key them all in to find out which is the right one.o  	 Mark Saad  St. Peter's Collegeo Academic Computer Center 2saad_m@spcvxa.spc.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 17:32:15 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>W Subject: Re: TCP/IPW, Message-ID: <3953D74F.A5381DF6@videotron.ca>   Mark Saad wrote: > F > I am setting up OVMS hobbyiest kit on a Alpha server  4/266 and I amG > wondering what is the license pak I need to set up tcp/ip. I have the I > hobbyiest paks from Montigar software but I don't see one labled tcp/ipeI > and I don't want to key them all in to find out which is the right one.o  I "UCX" is the one. TCP/IP services is the new name, previous versions wereV
 called "UCX".y   ------------------------------    Date: 23 Jun 2000 16:37:43 -0700( From: Javier Henderson <javier@kjsl.com> Subject: Re: TCP/IPo- Message-ID: <86r99onf3s.fsf@cartero.kjsl.com>a  / JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:m   >  > Mark Saad wrote: > > H > > I am setting up OVMS hobbyiest kit on a Alpha server  4/266 and I amI > > wondering what is the license pak I need to set up tcp/ip. I have the K > > hobbyiest paks from Montigar software but I don't see one labled tcp/ipeK > > and I don't want to key them all in to find out which is the right one.  > K > "UCX" is the one. TCP/IP services is the new name, previous versions wereu > called "UCX".r  D 	In the interest of completeness, Process Software also participatesB in the Hobbyist program, so you could be running MultiNet instead.   -jav   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 20:21:23 GMT8( From: Mark Saad <2saad_m@spcvxa.spc.edu> Subject: TCP/IPoH Message-ID: <PINE.PMDF.3.91.1000619151734.149792A-100000@SPCVXA.SPC.EDU>  D I am setting up OVMS hobbyiest kit on a Alpha server  4/266 and I amE wondering what is the license pak I need to set up tcp/ip. I have thetG hobbyiest paks from Montigar software but I don't see one labled tcp/ipuG and I don't want to key them all in to find out which is the right one.M  	 Mark Saad9 St. Peter's Collegev Academic Computer Center 2saad_m@spcvxa.spc.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 14:02:38 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>g Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?, Message-ID: <3953A63D.92C70735@videotron.ca>   Jeff Killeen wrote: I > Business 101 - The only manufactures who consistently turn a profit areoL > those who are either the highest volume manufactures, and thus achieve theD > greatest productivity, which allow for profit at low prices or theK > manufactures would offer a premium product which consumers are willing to  > pay a premium price for. n    N Consider the amount of hardware and "management ware" that is/could ber sharedJ in the manufacturing of billy box and alpha boxes.  Displays, disk drives,I power supplies, memory, cabinets, boxes, distribution, and even the power.
 cables :-)  N Comsider that if Compaq is able to manufacture billy boxes cost effectively, IE see no reason why Compaq should not be able to build alpha boxes costsM effectively. The cost of the CPU does not represent such a high percentage of$G the total box and the rest is pretty well all commodity that is shared.r  G Where there is a will, there is a way. This is a bit similar to Apple's J problems under Scully: he was not willing to risk ramping up production onM certain machines. As a result, high demand for such a machine would result inmK huge backorders that could not be filled and customers were lost because of  that.   M The success of the iMAC is not the box itself, but rather in Apple taking the M risk of ramping up production in ANTICIPATION for demand and making the boxest/ easy to buy, available and with good marketing.t  N And as far as "willing to pay a premium for". Such a mentality is exactly whatM killed Digital and such thinking should be eradicated completely from Compaq. I Alpha may have been wiz bang fast back in 1992, but right now, it is just L another architecture whose performance is rivaled by the 8086 and PPC chips.H Its performance edge is no longer worth paying a premium for, especiallyJ considering that its value, due to lesser availability of software, is far below than of an 8086.  M Heck, if Intel gets its act together in 5 years and actually produces an IA64 Y that works and is tuned, it may outgun an Alpha which will already be past its half-life.4   ------------------------------   Date: 23 Jun 2000 18:50:27 GMT' From: david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk (D.Webb)t Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?0 Message-ID: <8j0bhj$c8s$1@aquila.news.mdx.ac.uk>  \ In article <3953A63D.92C70735@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: >Jeff Killeen wrote:J >> Business 101 - The only manufactures who consistently turn a profit areM >> those who are either the highest volume manufactures, and thus achieve the E >> greatest productivity, which allow for profit at low prices or theeL >> manufactures would offer a premium product which consumers are willing to >> pay a premium price for.  >s > O >Consider the amount of hardware and "management ware" that is/could ber sharediK >in the manufacturing of billy box and alpha boxes.  Displays, disk drives,sJ >power supplies, memory, cabinets, boxes, distribution, and even the power >cables :-)a > O >Comsider that if Compaq is able to manufacture billy boxes cost effectively, IaF >see no reason why Compaq should not be able to build alpha boxes costN >effectively. The cost of the CPU does not represent such a high percentage ofH >the total box and the rest is pretty well all commodity that is shared. >-H >Where there is a will, there is a way. This is a bit similar to Apple'sK >problems under Scully: he was not willing to risk ramping up production onSN >certain machines. As a result, high demand for such a machine would result inL >huge backorders that could not be filled and customers were lost because of >that.   >eN >The success of the iMAC is not the box itself, but rather in Apple taking theN >risk of ramping up production in ANTICIPATION for demand and making the boxes0 >easy to buy, available and with good marketing. > O >And as far as "willing to pay a premium for". Such a mentality is exactly whattN >killed Digital and such thinking should be eradicated completely from Compaq.J >Alpha may have been wiz bang fast back in 1992, but right now, it is justM >another architecture whose performance is rivaled by the 8086 and PPC chips.aI >Its performance edge is no longer worth paying a premium for, especiallyaK >considering that its value, due to lesser availability of software, is farr >below than of an 8086.l > N >Heck, if Intel gets its act together in 5 years and actually produces an IA64Z >that works and is tuned, it may outgun an Alpha which will already be past its half-life.    J Compaq has a small window of opportunity in which it could make Alpha the  Linux box of choice.  L If this were to happen then we might see users having a spare Linux Alpha onL which to try out VMS (Just throw in a free VMS CD and a Hobbiest/evaluation  license with every purchase).c  H However this requires that the Alpha box costs no more than an Intel box- whilst retaining Alphas superior performance.     
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:44:07 GMTs- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)  Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?5 Message-ID: <DTIOTGXQ0BJ6-PN2-Z0CQQDSDU2QM@LOCALHOST>y  F On Sun, 20 Jun 3900 05:53:50, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote:  5 >  Your closing statement ("Margins be damned if theyMN > lose business (read: profits) to your competitors.") indicates a fundamentalK > misunderstanding of the relationship between margins and profits (withouteC > the first, you have none of the second), which may explain a lot.   E Come on Bill, my  O-level (for 16'yr olds) Economics course taught meh3 that there is more than one way to accrue profit :-.  $  a. sell lots with low profit margin+  b. sell fewer with a larger profit margin.,  @ Whether you apply a or b (or any of the variations on the theme)C depends on things like the law of Supply and Demand, elasticilty of-F the market (price really) and all sorts of subtle stuff. I suspect you, and David are applying different variations.  A I believe David is trying to point out that although Compaq has a<E captive market for many of its systems, it does not have to stay thatwF way. He proposes one way of maintaining or expanding that market. It'sA not so different to the statements that were made when DEC/COMPAQeB announced they were withdrawng from the Workstation market. If you@ want people to grow up liking VMS and/or understanding where its@ strengths (and weaknesses) are, you've got to expose them to it.D Particularly now. There's a new generation of programmers, engineersD and PHB's who do _not_ know anything about VMS. They see the WindowsF GUI everywhere, they hear the Linux hype, they are not exposed to VMS.C If that persists, VMS will fall back into a high margin niche wherelE the elasticity of price is high but the customers will look for other ; solutions, if only because a bean-counter will do the sums.n  F Maybe if we look at the Linux analogy. Why do people use it. Mainly, IF suspect, because it's not microsoft but it runs on the x86's that they? own (that's part of my reasoning anyway). I have DRDOS, WIN311, @ WIn95/98/NT, OS/2 and Linux here. The DEC machines I have are myB Rainbows. I would, for obvious reasons, prefer a VMS machine in myE hobby room. I'm a DECUS member so I can get the hobbyist license whenS; the machine I'm waiting for becomes free. However, my threeHD team-membes are not and would not have that possibility. David is, IE believe, arguing their case. Not VMS on x86 but an affordable licenceh
 for SOHO etc.    Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 02:05:20 GMTB' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>d Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?( Message-ID: <8IMJ9C$PSB$1@PYRITE.MV.NET>  5 Keith Brown <kbrown780@usfamily.net> wrote in messagei& news:394EAF1B.60447458@usfamily.net... > Chris Scheers wrote:   ...   J > > That Linux can run on the hardware !!!THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE!!! is what+ > > has let Linux spread as much as it has.y > >hK > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------e( > > Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc. > >cK > > 817-237-3360 (Voice)    817-237-3074 (Fax)    Internet: asi@airmail.neto > >The point? > > of this port would be to provide an affordable entry level.A >a= > You are assuming that IA64 will be priced lower that Alpha.V+ > Everything I have read so says otherwise.i  J That certainly seems likely to be true for at least a while.  However, theL last point Chris made (which I included above) remains valid, and was likely> more important to Linux's (at least early) success than price.  J The question is whether VMS would have any chance of duplicating the LinuxB phenomenon.  If you suspect (as I do) that a great deal of Linux'sK popularity was due to  1) abhorrence of Microsoft,  2) academic exposure to.H Unix, and  3) zero cost, then VMS fails completely on point 2 and, givenL that Linux already satisfies points 1 and 3, doesn't have the vacuum to fill that Linux did.-  E There's also the question of why the free BSD variants didn't succeed-L earlier.  One might guess at reasons like  a) Linus is kind of a neat figureK to focus on and  b) GNU licensing has a powerful constituency and organizedHI backing, unlike the other open-source variants.  Once again, VMS fails toeD qualify for success on these grounds:  Cutler, even if he were stillK available, isn't exactly as friendly a co-implementor as Linus is, and it'snC not clear that GNU licensing would be in VMS's interests (let alone 
 Compaq's).  J In sum, I don't see that VMS has any chance at all of following in Linux'sK footsteps:  I suspect it will have to fight every step of the way, based on J its virtues and hopefully with aggressive assistance from Compaq in makingK it as familiar, approachable, and (if it ever becomes viable at the extreme D low end on other counts) affordable as its more popular competition.   - bill   >n > --
 > Keith Brownl > kbrown780@usfamily.net   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 14:23:16 -0600 (MDT) ) From: John Nebel <nebel@athena.csdco.com>r@ Subject: What brand computer amazon.com uses may not be relevantG Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0006231416370.28723-100000@athena.csdco.com>3  G A current article on www.bloomberg.com says Amazon is burning cash at ar. such a rate they will be broke in nine months.  $ Their stock price is down 20% today.  
 John Nebel   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 14:27:58 -0700m@ From: "Russell E. Owen" <owen@astroNOJNK.washington.edu.invalid>D Subject: Re: What happened to SET PROTOCOL UDP/BROADCAST? (followup)2 Message-ID: <8j0kot$41u6$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>  E In article <8io84b$435q$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>, "Russell E. Owen" o/ <owen@astroNOJNK.washington.edu.invalid> wrote:   G >The manaul "DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS System Services and C h >Socket Programming" says: >y >r@ >2.15.2 Sending Broadcast Datagrams with OpenVMS System Services >oF >To broadcast datagrams, issue a $QIO system service command with the  >IO$_WRITEVBLK function.   > C >Before issuing broadcast messages, the application must issue the ,I >IO$_SETMODE function. This sets the broadcast option in the socket. The -I >process must have a system UIC, and a SYSPRV, BYPASS, or OPER privilege xF >to issue broadcast messages. However, the system manager can disable A >privilege checking with the management command SET PROTOCOL UDP cH >/BROADCAST. For more information, refer to DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for  >OpenVMS Management. i >...  6 I tried some example programs and found the following:E - Broadcast works with OPER privilege enabled and does not work with dI OPER disabled. Having a system UIC does not appear to be required (which nH disagrees with the manual excerpt quoted above, but agrees with the one 
 quoted next).,  F - Broadcast requires explicitly setting the broadcast option. This is : contrary to a statement in the manual that it is optional:,     Table 4-15 Communications Socket Options$     Socket Option       Description I     TCPIP$C_BROADCAST   Permits the sending of broadcast messages. Takes  D an integer parameter and requires a system user identification code H (UIC) or SYSPRV, BYPASS, or OPER privilege. Optional for connectionless 
 datagram.   G My suspicion is that the layered product formerly known as UCX changed CI (in ways that seem to parallel unix) but that the manual "DIGITAL TCP/IP  F Services for OpenVMS System Services and CSocket Programming" has not G been fully updated to reflect those changes. An indeed different parts  ; of the manual seem to have been updated at different times.   I At this point I have fortran code that appears to be working. It was one RE of the more frustrating experiences I've been through. The manual is oC simply wrong in places (as mentioned above) and is very unclear in gA others. The QIO interface for setting socket options and such is pE needlessly complex (if I'd been programming in C, I'd most certainly rH have used the simpler socket interface). And certain functions, such as 5 HTONL, HTONS and HTOND must be hand-coded in fortran..  G Anyway, if anybody else is broadcasting UDP packets in fortran or even qF just using the QIO interface, I am happy to offer working sample code.  
 -- Russell   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 05:06:31 GMT * From: "Yuri Ermakov" <ermak@cbr.ryazan.su>' Subject: : Finding a Hardware Address*/ Message-ID: <8IUP08$32H$1@SUMMER.CBR.RYAZAN.SU>-   $ mcr lancp- lancp> help show dev  L "Shawn" <sfm1115@bjcmail.carenet.org> /   :+ news:395242ee.268633865@news.starnet.net...4D > How can I find out what the Hardware Address is for an AlphaServer > running OpenVMS 7.1n > C > For Example when I am in ncp and trying to issue the connect nodevE > <System Name> it responds telling me I need the hardware address ofd$ > the box I am trying to connect to. >l< > How do I go to that box and retrieve the hardware address? >' >o > Thanks >m > Shawne >e >r   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.350 ************************