1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 24 Jun 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 351       Contents:( Re: Deleting system files [...]*.*_old;*( Re: DFU V2.6 crashed my system today ...( Re: DFU V2.6 crashed my system today ...G INCREASE ENERGY LEVELS BY 84% - INCREASE SEXUAL POTENCY BY 75% (531343) $ Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?). RE: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clusters. Re: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clusters. Re: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clusters0 Pricing of hardware/software for hobbist/student4 Re: Pricing of hardware/software for hobbist/student. Re: Remote access programs from Windows to VMS Re: Seagates on VAXstations  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel? ( VMS Graduates (Was: Digital Press plans) VMS jobs in Alpharetta, GA  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 12:01:52 GMT 8 From: Veli =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=F6rkk=F6?= <korkko@decus.fi>1 Subject: Re: Deleting system files [...]*.*_old;* ( Message-ID: <39549ADB.3999AEEE@decus.fi>  D Usually upgrading VMS does not cause that many blocks consumed. I'd  do  % a) $ANALYZE/DISK/REPAIR SYS$SYSDEVICE   < to see whether amount of free space would go away or whether7 you are told about files marked for deletion (and those  will not go away yet)   . b) install DFU if you don't yet have it and do      $ define dfu$nosmg yes :    $ mc dfu search/size=min=2500/sort/alloc sys$sysdevice:  8 Could be that AUTOGEN changed sizes of page, swap and/or> dump files hence consumption of additional disk space. Anyway,9 should the problem be due to largish files, DFU will find 
 them for you.   > There is always the possibility that the lost space is because> of large number of some small files. Like suddenly a DECserver> xxx doing upline dumps to SYS$SYSROOT:[DECSERVER]. DFU command7 above will not catch situation like that. One could try   @ 	$ mc dfu search/size=min=32/file=*.dir/sort/allo sys$sysdevice:  < and then investigate each of those directories that turn up.  @ Other usual reasons are things like OPERATOR.LOG, ACCOUNTING.DAT@ ,SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL and so on but the search for large files will reveal them.      _veli       % nickerson@pundit.ds.boeing.com wrote:  >  > hi,  > B > OpenVMS 7.2-1 on AlphaServer 2100 5/300 with 2.1 Gb system disk;@ > I've just gone through a full update and patch cycle; now thatA > things have calmed down I happened to look at the loading of my C > system disk; it's bad - about 2% free = 90K blocks; this is after 0 > purging and deleting all non open *.log files; > B > so my question is: should I blithely delete [...]*.*_old;* filesF > which I've found in great profusion (200k blocks) on my system disk;> > or is there good reason to hang on to them all - or in part; > A > any other ideas beyond secondary pagefile and removing sysdump;  >  > --bn (Bart Nickerson)   > nickerson@pundit.ds.boeing.com > (206) 662-0183   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jun 2000 08:38:12 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) 1 Subject: Re: DFU V2.6 crashed my system today ... + Message-ID: <YaffvYHxRhf3@eisner.decus.org>   [ In article <8j1175$ajm$1@news0.skynet.be>, "Marc Van Dyck" <marc.vandyck@skynet.be> writes: L > A little note to let the audience know that there are still some potential5 > problems with even the more recent versions of DFU.  > J > Today I used it to undelete a bunch of modparams include files that wereK > accidentally deleted from sys$common:[sysexe], and near the conclusion of K > the undelete command (i.e. after it asked for all the confirmations), the K > system crashed with an 'invalid XQP function' error, or something to that 	 > effect.   C How do you know that those files you "undeleted" did not have their G space used by something else in the meantime ?  Such as the directories  into which you undeleted them ?   D Certainly ODS-2/5 "undelete" is a hit-or-miss proposition, and yours was not a hit.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 11:48:55 GMT / From: "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net> 1 Subject: Re: DFU V2.6 crashed my system today ... H Message-ID: <He155.21496$Xx5.1172742@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>  F "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in message% news:YaffvYHxRhf3@eisner.decus.org... < > In article <8j1175$ajm$1@news0.skynet.be>, "Marc Van Dyck"  <marc.vandyck@skynet.be> writes:D > > A little note to let the audience know that there are still some	 potential 7 > > problems with even the more recent versions of DFU.  > > L > > Today I used it to undelete a bunch of modparams include files that wereJ > > accidentally deleted from sys$common:[sysexe], and near the conclusion ofI > > the undelete command (i.e. after it asked for all the confirmations),  the H > > system crashed with an 'invalid XQP function' error, or something to that > > effect.  > E > How do you know that those files you "undeleted" did not have their I > space used by something else in the meantime ?  Such as the directories ! > into which you undeleted them ?  > F > Certainly ODS-2/5 "undelete" is a hit-or-miss proposition, and yours > was not a hit.  K His files probably were already written over, but undelete should have been > able to detect that and give a warning.  NOT crash the system!  L However, I would like to hear the results of the crash analysis.  Every timeJ one of my systems crashes, I have three or four people asking if they  didL it because they were right in the middle of doing something.  Usually, it is something else entirely.   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 11:45:30 -0400 (EDT) / From: "putdgv84262@arx.gr" <putdgv84262@arx.gr> P Subject: INCREASE ENERGY LEVELS BY 84% - INCREASE SEXUAL POTENCY BY 75% (531343)) Message-ID: <73707.93170@mail.joghat.com>   5 What would you pay to look and feel 10 years younger?   ; Would you be interested in increasing energy levels by 84%? 7 How about Increasing Sexual Potency & Frequency by 75%?   B Would you like to increase your Muscle Strength by 88%  While.....D At the same time...... Reducing Body Fat by 82% and Wrinkles by 61%?  F Of Course you would! Well we have the Amazing HGH Releasor product to & help you achieve all of this and more!4 PLUS~~~~ We have the scientific proof to back it up!  / Turn Back The Clock and Turn Up the Energy Now!    Click here NOW to find out more ( http://pages.about.com/cmk5/sunrise.html     This message is being sent to you in compliance with the proposed Federal legislation for commercial e-mail (S.1618-SECTION 301).  "Pursuant to Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618, further transmissions to you by the sender of this e-mail may be stopped at no cost to you by clicking mailto:als@yours.com and placing REMOVE in the subject.    ^ ********************************************************************************************** 85469    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 09:00:38 -0500 ) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> - Subject: Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?) 7 Message-ID: <002901bfdde4$953c6b30$020a0a0a@xile.realm>    Dan <dan@vrx.network> wrote: > F > One thing that always bugged me about VMS security is that for a COM@ > (DCL) program, in order to run it the user normally needed theH > READ privilege, which means they could copy it or type it out, or someK > such, which I never wanted them to do, even doing tricky bits like making F > the directory Execute only for the users (a very nice trick indeed!)1 > doesn't help if they know the name of the file.  > H > Unless this has changed and can be run with just execute set for a DCL > (COM) program.  L Yes, command files can be set execute only.  No read access is required.  It+ has been that way for quite a few versions.   0 Set verify will not expose it's contents either.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 09:35:50 -0400 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> 7 Subject: RE: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clusters J Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284467@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com>   JF,   H >> A ferrari might be much better than a yugo/lada, but if all I need isJ something to carry my groceries from the store to home, then the yugo/ladaG is more than sufficient and spending all the extra cash for the ferrari  would be a waste.<<<   Yep, everything in its place.   J Of course, if you want to take the family on a vacation, impress CustomersK when you take them to lunch in your car, or need a vehicle that can get you K to the store in foot high snow banks or icy hills, or absolutely never want K to have the car breakdown with a car full of groceries that could spoil (or L melt) if not put in a fridge for some time, then the requirements might also change as well.    :-)    Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant,
 Compaq Canada  Professional Services  Voice : 613-592-4660 FAX   : 819-772-7036 Email : kerry.main@compaq.com        -----Original Message-----4 From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca]# Sent: Friday, June 23, 2000 5:38 PM  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com 7 Subject: Re: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clusters      Warren Spencer wrote: L > Bottom line?  NT Clusters are the el-cheapo version of a real cluster, andH > Sun clusters come much closer to the OpenVMS ones, but still don't getJ > there.  Ask your application how much reliability / redundancy it needs,K > and how much $$$ you've got to spend on it.  If the answer is 10 cents or H > less, go for the NT cluster - and remember - you get what you pay for.  F Ok, but when it comes down to selecting a platform that will meet your needs,I will the NT and Solaris one fit 99% of people's needs, relegating the VMS J solution to only the 1% who really need the features missing in NT/Solaris and ' thus willing to pay a premium for it ?    K Seems that VMS would be exclusing itself from a large part of the market if  that were the case.   E A ferrari might be much better than a yugo/lada, but if all I need is J something to carry my groceries from the store to home, then the yugo/lada isJ more than sufficient and spending all the extra cash for the ferrari would be a waste.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 12:50:38 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> 7 Subject: Re: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clusters ( Message-ID: <8j2os5$e3u$1@pyrite.mv.net>  4 Main, Kerry <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote in messageD news:910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284467@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com... > JF,  > J > >> A ferrari might be much better than a yugo/lada, but if all I need isL > something to carry my groceries from the store to home, then the yugo/ladaI > is more than sufficient and spending all the extra cash for the ferrari  > would be a waste.<<< >  > Yep, everything in its place.  > : > Of course, if you want to take the family on a vacation,  H Even limited old fail-over Win2K SMP has the room to take your family onL vacation.  If you want to take all your living relatives (out to the second-J and third-removed level), you might need a Sun cluster so that larger SMPsE and data-sharing (not disk-sharing, but it works) among them would be J supported.  Only if you want to take, say, the entire Compaq work force onH vacation (and all to the same place) does VMS start to offer significant advantages.     impress Customers* > when you take them to lunch in your car,  J Unfortunately, there's only a very small percentage of customers who'll beJ impressed by your use of VMS, because that's all that will even have heard> of it.  Parallel Sysplex, on the other hand, might do the job.  #  or need a vehicle that can get you 4 > to the store in foot high snow banks or icy hills,  K Mainframe territory again.  Though Wildfire just might get VMS into it now.     or absolutely never want I > to have the car breakdown with a car full of groceries that could spoil  (or - > melt) if not put in a fridge for some time,   F Now you're talking Tandem (or Status, for smaller loads).  Or ftVAX...	 whoops...    - bill  !  then the requirements might also  > change as well.  >  > :-)  > 
 > Regards, >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant, > Compaq Canada  > Professional Services  > Voice : 613-592-4660 > FAX   : 819-772-7036 > Email : kerry.main@compaq.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 12:58:46 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> 7 Subject: Re: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clusters ( Message-ID: <8j2pbe$ed1$1@pyrite.mv.net>  : Warren Spencer <warren.spencer@alcan.com> wrote in message3 news:8F5883284warrenspenceralcanco@142.14.12.164...  > Hi Francesco,  > L > "Shared Nothing" clusters do not allow simultaneous access to a given diskI > by multiple hosts.  "Shared Everything" clusters do, as well as provide L > shared simultaneous access to other stuff (hence the "everything").  OtherH > stuff, in the OpenVMS world, includes batch and print queues, security > info, etc. > H > I remember a presentation in Syracuse by Microsoft in 1995 touting theH > _advantages_ of a shared-nothing clusters - most significantly, speed.J > Without the need for a distributed lock manager, speed improves.  That'sG > roughly equivalent to saying:  "I'll remove the air conditioner, body K > panels, seats, and a bunch of other stuff from my car to improve milage".   K To be accurate, it's much more like just removing the air conditioner:  the I car remains eminently usable, just occasionally less comfortable.  On the E other hand, it's kind of nice to *have* the air conditioner, since it I doesn't use any measurable amount of additional gas unless you turn it on $ (costs a bit more up front, though).   > I > If you have high reliability requirements, it's important that you boot G > multiple CPU's from the same image of the software - ie the same boot  disk.   J Only if you don't care about availability, since it makes rolling upgrades impossible.   L > This is not possible in a Solaris cluster, according to some Sun experts II > found in the Solaris newsgroup.  They did say that Solaris clusters can L > include up to 4 nodes, soon to be 8.  OpenVMS clusters can be much larger, > of course.  J This can be quite useful for workgroup-style clusters of workstations.  ItG also gives you much more headroom for *extremely* large configurations. L Otherwise, given reasonably scalable SMPs, 4 nodes in a cluster is likely to be sufficient.   - bill  <   Solaris provides shared access to disks - assuming they'reI > served by a disk farm (likely SCSI) - but each system must have its own  > system disk. > L > Bottom line?  NT Clusters are the el-cheapo version of a real cluster, andH > Sun clusters come much closer to the OpenVMS ones, but still don't getJ > there.  Ask your application how much reliability / redundancy it needs,K > and how much $$$ you've got to spend on it.  If the answer is 10 cents or H > less, go for the NT cluster - and remember - you get what you pay for. >  > ws >  >  > -- > Warren Spencer > Systems Analyst  > Alcan Aluminum Corporation > K > << My employer does not necessarily agree with my opinions - neither do I  > >> >  > 3 > gennai@mx2.iat.cnr.it (Francesco Gennai) wrote in   > <XQbWoucmwstb@mx2.iat.cnr.it>: > ; > >Where I could find information and possibly a comparison < > >between OpenVMS clustering and other systems clustering ?> > >(Eg.: sharing nothing clusters vs OpenVMS clusters, etc...)H > >I'm interested in URLs, books, white papers, personal opinions and so	 > >on....  > >  > >Francesco
 > >---------- = > >---------- Francesco Gennai                     Internet :   > >francesco.gennai @ iat.cnr.it > > ? > >                               http://mail.iat.cnr.it/gennai B > >IAT - CNR                            Phone    : +39-050-3152592B > >Area di Ricerca di Pisa              Fax      : +39-050-3152593 > >Via Alfieri, 1  > >56010 Ghezzano PISA   ITALY
 > >---------- 
 > >----------  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 16:11:49 GMT ! From: Matt Morley <matt@mpcm.org> 9 Subject: Pricing of hardware/software for hobbist/student ( Message-ID: <3954DE81.4BEF042E@mpcm.org>  F I just graduated high school and will be attending a community college in the Fall.  C I've spent just over the last year working part time for a software*G company (Software Partners) that writes backup/restore/media managementmG for VMS (amoung many things). I've been doing testing on other projects%* and doing web/network related stuff there.  H I've been reading up on the user manuals for OpenVMS from work during myH spare time and was wondering what it would cost to get a small system up and running with TCP/IP.  E I currently have several windows/Linux/BSD machines and would like toe add VMS to my network.  ! Anyone got suggestions on prices?t  o --
 Sincerely, Matt Morley  c/o MPCM Graphicst   http://www.MPCMGraphics.comrD Developing and implementing custom web based solutions to solve your	 problems.-   ------------------------------    Date: 24 Jun 2000 13:50:32 -04004 From: "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com>= Subject: Re: Pricing of hardware/software for hobbist/students) Message-ID: <B57A6D2A-7D4EB@165.247.44.7>9  A On Sat, Jun 24, 2000 12:11 PM, Matt Morley <matt@mpcm.org> wrote:kG >I just graduated high school and will be attending a community collegew
 >in the Fall.f >eD >I've spent just over the last year working part time for a softwareH >company (Software Partners) that writes backup/restore/media managementH >for VMS (amoung many things). I've been doing testing on other projects+ >and doing web/network related stuff there.   H I used their Thruway product many years ago.  I don't know if it's stillG around.  It's pretty much been superseded by the TMSCP server in recenti versions of VMS.    I >I've been reading up on the user manuals for OpenVMS from work during mysI >spare time and was wondering what it would cost to get a small system upx >and running with TCP/IP.$  G Persuade your friends at Software Partners to upgrade to a new machine, * and then buy their old one for cheap.  :-)  H Failing that, there are usually a few used (or new) VMS systems at ebay,E listed under "Workstations and Servers" or something like that.  SomeTC of them are dirt cheap.  You might find an out-of-date alphastationrF for a few hundred dollars.  But beware of the alpha systems that can'tJ run VMS.  Some stuff is being pushed by junk dealers who have stripped outK disks and memory, leaving a system that will take some time to get working.pH I would try to stick with complete systems that will work as soon as you@ plug them in.  Unless you enjoy fiddling with hardware, that is.    " >Anyone got suggestions on prices?  H They seem to vary from almost nothing to higher-than-new.  My suggestion# is to pay as little as you can. :-)e       ---------------------------c Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.coma   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 06:00:54 GMTc- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)-7 Subject: Re: Remote access programs from Windows to VMS + Message-ID: <39544e6b.1022530@news.wku.edu>-  C On Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:59:26 -0600, Dan O'Reilly <dano@process.com>g wrote:  4 >Another VERY solid one (and shareware) is TeraTerm. > E Actually, TeraTerm is freeware, and it's the best VT320 emulator I've<! ever used (outside of Excursion).c   Hunter --------& Hunter Goatley, goathunter@goatley.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 09:53:33 -0700w3 From: Jojimbo <jgesslingNOjgSPAM@yahoo.com.invalid>a$ Subject: Re: Seagates on VAXstations9 Message-ID: <036b4000.ab67dd28@usw-ex0104-033.remarq.com>   > Did you try the old trick of smacking the drive smartly with a? hammer?  Sounds stupid, but I have gotten a drive that was spuny> down for more that a year to get going at least long enough to9 copy the data somewhere else.  What have you got to lose?u   Jime  7 Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.h Up to 100 minutes free!  http://www.keen.comi   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 11:59:47 -0400r' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>- Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?( Message-ID: <8j2lsq$c57$1@pyrite.mv.net>  2 D.Webb <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message* news:8j0bhj$c8s$1@aquila.news.mdx.ac.uk...   ...s  K > Compaq has a small window of opportunity in which it could make Alpha theK > Linux box of choice.  : And just how would it wrest this title from IA32 hardware?  H - There are zillions of those boxes already out there, and Linux can run effectively on most of them.  I - There are zillions more being made, and Linux will run on nearly all of < them - right beside the Windows system likely already there.  G - You can't (any longer) run Windows on an Alpha, so the boxes couldn'tfG perform double duty (save for the miniscule percentage of *total* Linuxa& users who'd want to run VMS or Tru64).  K Sure, there are likely a lot more people who'd buy an Alpha to run Linux ifhJ it cost the same as an Intel box.  But 'the Linux box of choice'?  I think not.  K > If this were to happen then we might see users having a spare Linux Alpha  on9 > which to try out VMS (Just throw in a free VMS CD and ae Hobbiest/evaluationu > license with every purchase).   4 Yup, you'd see some of that.  How much is debatable.   > J > However this requires that the Alpha box costs no more than an Intel box/ > whilst retaining Alphas superior performance.a  L The realities of the relative volumes (even if many - even most - componentsI Compaq uses to build the boxes are shared) ensure that this won't happen,rD even if Alpha processor (and glue) production costs were equal to IAG processor (and glue) production costs.  But the gap could be narrowed a-F great deal, if Compaq felt it would be worth their while to expend the up-front effort to do so.g  I If Linux generates a large amount of low-end Alpha sales, that would helpEL make the case for such efforts - since there is a clear cost-based trade-offJ between Linux on IA32 and Linux on Alpha that strongly suggests that AlphaJ Linux volume (if significant even at current Alpha prices) should increaseH if price decreases.  Similarly, a resurgence of demand for VMS in marketI segments it's already known, accompanied by parallel increases in low-endnL VMS demand, in would tend to suggest that VMS demand at the low end could be+ stimulated by Alpha price-reductions there.r   - bill   >  >e > David Webb > VMS and Unix team leader > CCSS > Middlesex University   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 12:36:03 -0400c' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>n Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?( Message-ID: <8j2o0q$dit$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 Dave Weatherall <djweath@attglobal.net> wrote in message/ news:DTIOTGXQ0BJ6-PN2-Z0CQQDSDU2QM@LOCALHOST...rH > On Sun, 20 Jun 3900 05:53:50, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote: >y7 > >  Your closing statement ("Margins be damned if they D > > lose business (read: profits) to your competitors.") indicates a fundamental*D > > misunderstanding of the relationship between margins and profits (withoutE > > the first, you have none of the second), which may explain a lot.n > G > Come on Bill, my  O-level (for 16'yr olds) Economics course taught mee5 > that there is more than one way to accrue profit :-k >r& >  a. sell lots with low profit margin- >  b. sell fewer with a larger profit margin.L  F Perhaps you should read the statement you quoted above again:  it saysG 'without the first, you have none of the second', not 'with less of the B first, you have none of the second'.  'Margins be damned' suggestsH loss-leader-like strategies, not simply margin-lowering - and while lossH leaders may be justifiable when there's clear expectation that they willJ result in more-than-compensating profits in other areas, that case has notK been made (nor has even the weaker case that lowering margins would improvee overall profits).t   >eB > Whether you apply a or b (or any of the variations on the theme)E > depends on things like the law of Supply and Demand, elasticilty ofaH > the market (price really) and all sorts of subtle stuff. I suspect you. > and David are applying different variations. >cC > I believe David is trying to point out that although Compaq has acG > captive market for many of its systems, it does not have to stay thataH > way. He proposes one way of maintaining or expanding that market. It'sC > not so different to the statements that were made when DEC/COMPAQt= > announced they were withdrawng from the Workstation market.e  G Except that there's a significant difference between withdrawing from acJ market you're already in and entering a new market (including all the cashI outlays that this requires, in the case of a port or heavily-cost-reducedl@ new hardware) that you already address with other product lines.    If youoB > want people to grow up liking VMS and/or understanding where itsB > strengths (and weaknesses) are, you've got to expose them to it.  C Absolutely.  And if anyone were able to make a real case that majorlJ system-cost reduction would expose VMS to a significantly-increased number. of people, then it would be worth considering.  L I was recently told privately that an attempt *had* been made a while ago toC see what kind of market could be forecast based on sales the peoplesH advocating this level of reduction (plus any other parties listening in)F could *personally* vouch for, and that the result was under $2 millionL (revenue, not profit).  Perhaps 1000 systems, at most - at least many likelyG going to customers already familiar with VMS.  About 0.1% of the volume$K Compaq would need to justify even considering a port (remember, at very lowtF margins, $2 billion in revenue doesn't add much funding to current VMSK development).  Only a few percent (at most) of the volume Compaq would needNL even to justify any significant cost-reduction effort on the Alpha platform.  F > Particularly now. There's a new generation of programmers, engineersF > and PHB's who do _not_ know anything about VMS. They see the WindowsH > GUI everywhere, they hear the Linux hype, they are not exposed to VMS.E > If that persists, VMS will fall back into a high margin niche whereeG > the elasticity of price is high but the customers will look for others= > solutions, if only because a bean-counter will do the sums.f  G Surprise:  that's exactly where VMS is already, which is why resurgence2& based on price isn't likely to happen.  I If Compaq can change the perception that VMS is a legacy system, then VMScK will have a chance - and then more aggressive low-end pricing might well be@' an effective long-term growth strategy.C   - bill   >0H > Maybe if we look at the Linux analogy. Why do people use it. Mainly, IH > suspect, because it's not microsoft but it runs on the x86's that theyA > own (that's part of my reasoning anyway). I have DRDOS, WIN311,rB > WIn95/98/NT, OS/2 and Linux here. The DEC machines I have are myD > Rainbows. I would, for obvious reasons, prefer a VMS machine in myG > hobby room. I'm a DECUS member so I can get the hobbyist license whend= > the machine I'm waiting for becomes free. However, my threeiF > team-membes are not and would not have that possibility. David is, IG > believe, arguing their case. Not VMS on x86 but an affordable licences > for SOHO etc.g >o > Cheers - Dave. >t   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 17:28:24 GMTt From: d.webb@mdx.ac.uk Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?) Message-ID: <8j2r3c$3i1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>g  ( In article <8j2lsq$c57$1@pyrite.mv.net>,*   "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote: > 4 > D.Webb <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message, > news:8j0bhj$c8s$1@aquila.news.mdx.ac.uk... >S > ...s >hC > > Compaq has a small window of opportunity in which it could makeo	 Alpha them > > Linux box of choice. >a< > And just how would it wrest this title from IA32 hardware? >s    D IA32 is reaching the end of its life. I wouldn't think there is muchF more performance growth to be got out of IA32 design - and since Intel5 wants to move to IA64 I'd suggest they agree with me.   , IA64 is still pretty much nowhere for Linux.  + Alpha has a reasonable following for Linux.oH I can go into stores in London and pickup Linux distributions for Alpha.F I've yet to see any Linux distributions for chips other than Intel and Alpha in a computing store.n  G Hence as I said there is a limited window of opportunity as Intel movesA@ from IA32 to IA64 where Alpha has the advantage of being a knownG platform for Linux which is recognised as having performance advantageslH as against the new IA64 which is largely unknown as a Linux platform andE will underperform (at least in it's first few incarnations) the Alphac chip.r  F > - There are zillions of those boxes already out there, and Linux can run1 > effectively on most of them. > H > - There are zillions more being made, and Linux will run on nearly all of> > them - right beside the Windows system likely already there. >r  B Yes the legacy IA32 boxes will still be there but this is dead-endD technology. The battle for Linux box of choice will be between Alpha- and IA64 if Compaq wishes to wage the battle.b  H The battle needs to start now but it won't be won or lost for probably 5 years.    
 David Webb VMS and unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University  @ > - You can't (any longer) run Windows on an Alpha, so the boxes couldn'tC > perform double duty (save for the miniscule percentage of *total*t Linuxa( > users who'd want to run VMS or Tru64). >mD > Sure, there are likely a lot more people who'd buy an Alpha to run Linux ifF > it cost the same as an Intel box.  But 'the Linux box of choice'?  I think  > not. > G > > If this were to happen then we might see users having a spare Linux  Alpha  > on; > > which to try out VMS (Just throw in a free VMS CD and aa > Hobbiest/evaluationu! > > license with every purchase).a >i6 > Yup, you'd see some of that.  How much is debatable. >C > >fH > > However this requires that the Alpha box costs no more than an Intel boxo1 > > whilst retaining Alphas superior performance.  >rC > The realities of the relative volumes (even if many - even most -c
 componentsC > Compaq uses to build the boxes are shared) ensure that this won'tt happen,cF > even if Alpha processor (and glue) production costs were equal to IAG > processor (and glue) production costs.  But the gap could be narrowedp ayH > great deal, if Compaq felt it would be worth their while to expend the > up-front effort to do so.s > F > If Linux generates a large amount of low-end Alpha sales, that would helpD > make the case for such efforts - since there is a clear cost-based	 trade-offtF > between Linux on IA32 and Linux on Alpha that strongly suggests that AlphawC > Linux volume (if significant even at current Alpha prices) should  increaseC > if price decreases.  Similarly, a resurgence of demand for VMS ino marketC > segments it's already known, accompanied by parallel increases in  low-endnE > VMS demand, in would tend to suggest that VMS demand at the low endw could be- > stimulated by Alpha price-reductions there.e >b > - bill >w > >o > >  > > David Webb > > VMS and Unix team leader > > CCSS > > Middlesex University >C >o    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 18:48:38 +0100o  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com1 Subject: VMS Graduates (Was: Digital Press plans)m> Message-ID: <80256908.0061F35B.00@qedilc01.qedi.quintiles.com>  > This sounds extremely good.  Thanks for forwarding it on Dave.  P I hope too that BH/Digital Press grab back any books that they've passed on to aL third party (like VAXcluster Principles) and update them.  I saw a price forP VAXC.P. and the price being quoted by the 3rd party was rather more than I or my" company could justify paying......  K On the subject of graduates/recruitment, I'm after someone in the UK at the L moment for what's being planned as a permanent post.  It would probably be aM little unfair to go for a graduate, since I'm looking for someone who can hit-N the ground running (authorizations, DCL, installations, troubleshooting and so@ on) so a junor admin or operations shift leader might be better.  K Location would be Bracknell, UK, but I'm not sure how much we're looking to4	 pay......> Steveu   Dave Miller forwarded :dK >>>My boss and I were up at Compaq in Nashua earlier this week to meet witht thes@ OpenVMS group there. They feel we are in the midst of an OpenVMSD renaissance, and are actively supporting the revision of some of our current K titles, and looking for new books too, as well as seeking college kids withfJ some knowledge of OpenVMS who might be looking for employment with OpenVMSF customers. (We are delighted, since this is a long-awaited insight for= Compaq--that customers need and want books on the product...)l  G Compaq would love to get a line on college grads with VMS experience sonH their customers can try to hire them, I gather! So it could be a win-win situation here.t  K The newly appointed liaison between Compaq and Digital Press will be MargieoK Sherlock, who's now a senior member of technical staff in the OpenVMS groupn4 and has written a couple of books for Digital Press.  D Yeah, BH, or at least Digital Press, has been trying to get Compaq's supportnG for our publishing program for a couple of years now. But at their last: TechE Advisory Forum with their customers, they got blasted for the lack of  recentH books and revisions, so now they are very very friendly. Works for me...   Pam<<<   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 09:50:46 -0700t3 From: Jojimbo <jgesslingNOjgSPAM@yahoo.com.invalid>m# Subject: VMS jobs in Alpharetta, GAo9 Message-ID: <05937657.aaad5169@usw-ex0104-033.remarq.com>e   People,d  = We are putting in a large VMS cluster in Alpharetta, north ofl: Atlanta, to expand our trading operations.  We need a few,? topnotch VMS people to own it and to grow it with the business.e@ We are a unique combination of cutting edge new stuff and "prove) it first before it goes into production".l  : Experience with multi-site clusters and large (and mission, critical) systems would be our first choice.  ? You can send me your resume, and I will pass it on to the rightt? people.  I believe some relocation assistance is available, butt2 that's for you to negotiate with management types.   Jim    jgessling@etrade.com  7 Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.  Up to 100 minutes free!  http://www.keen.comy   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.351 ************************