1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 26 Jun 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 355       Contents: Re: 500au wont boot 1 Re: advice on adopting reasonably large computers 1 Re: advice on adopting reasonably large computers   Re: Alternative to Pathworks-NFS backup/image problem% Re: Can I boot VAX6600 from DSSI disk   Re: Charon-VAX Hobbyist Question' Re: Cisco Has DECNet Ping - VMS Doesn't & Re: Compaq paying for software ports ?& Re: Compaq paying for software ports ?& Re: Compaq paying for software ports ?( Re: DFU V2.6 crashed my system today ...( Re: DFU V2.6 crashed my system today ... Free Internet Access- Re: How 2 unpack MIME mail attachments in VMS 8 How to create a native VMS command - and a few questions. Re: Humour link for the anti-MS among us......- re: Latest Compaq mailshot still ignoring VMS : looking for a list of Canadian companies using Vax systems> Re: looking for a list of Canadian companies using Vax systems+ Re: Monitoring Tool for CIS app on Open VMS 2 Re: My experience with Charon-VAX Hobbyist Edition7 Re: Northern Light vs. Google (and the winner is . . .) 7 Re: Northern Light vs. Google (and the winner is . . .) 7 Re: Northern Light vs. Google (and the winner is . . .) < Re: Not waiting for the shoe to drop. was: Re: VAX on Intel? O/T but damn funny - S-Commerce $ OpenVMS Alpha C programming question( Re: OpenVMS Alpha C programming question. Re: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clusters oracle 8.1.6 for Alhpa VMSB Powerstorm 300/350, Open3D, New Alpha workstations and PEX support4 Re: Pricing of hardware/software for hobbist/student print que problems Re: print que problems Re: print que problems. Re: Remote access programs from Windows to VMS Re[2]: 500au wont boot RE: Re[2]: 500au wont boot Re[2]: Seagates on VAXstations RE: strange problems in SYSBOOT : Re: SWCC agent connectivity and client authorisation issue TP_server process  RE: TP_server process  Tuning message queue parameters # Re: Tuning message queue parameters  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?  Re: VAX on Intel?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:22:45 +0100  From: "Si" <simon@wardour.com> Subject: Re: 500au wont boot( Message-ID: <395724bc@pron.i-way.net.uk>  L I have seen this when trying to upgrade from VMS to NT. It will not read the cd.   K To get around this we removed the cmos battery and left it out for a couple = of minutes. When ew reinserted it and retried it worked fine.    Si5 mrsignor <mrsignor@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message / news:QEn55.927$aA3.32525@typhoon1.ba-dsg.net...  > Hi,  > J >     I have recently acquired a 500au, which refuses to boot. Obviously i
 > could be3 >     doing something DUMB ... but i dont think so.  > 8 >     During the boot process, from CD, the machine says > ' >     blah, blah, is a valid boot block  >     reading 1082 blocks  >     bootstrap code read in4 >     base=if000, image_start = 0, image_bytes=87400 >     "  >     "  >     "  >     jumping to bootstrap code  >  > 3 >     and we never return, and nothing else happens  > E >     This happens when i use a VMS 7.2-1 or 7.1 CD, or a firmware CD  > * >    any thoughts, other than it's broken. > K >    BTW, what was the original warranty on these machines, 1,2, or 3 years  >  > TIA  >  >    ------------------------------  + Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 17:02:20 +0000 (   ) 3 From: Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com> : Subject: Re: advice on adopting reasonably large computersJ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10006261654550.31657-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com>  & On Sun, 25 Jun 2000, Hans Vlems wrote:  9 > Be careful how you connect the system to a wall outlet. ? > You do not get 220V by just putting two plugs in two adjacent 
 > sockets.  C Yeah, the outlet that I'd be plugging it in to is 220 volts, in two D phases, I believe -- the machine also seems to be 220 in two phases.I (There are also two 110 volt circuits in the building, and theoretically, 5 I could get 220 in two phases from those, I think...)   @ > Many DEC systems have a switch on the power supply that allowsD > you to select 220-240 V or 100-110 V. Recent devices figure it out; > by themselves. Open up the box and find the power supply. 7 > The transformer may have a tap marked 110V (or 100V).  > Use that one.     H Right.  As a side-note, this machine was used locally (would anyone shipG something that big?) so there may not be as many issues with the power. $ There will still be some, of course.  E > Next, remember good old Mr. Ohm: half the potential means that your I > current doubles, assuming that the load does not change. Make sure that 1 > the power cable is able to handle that current.   J I'm relatively sure that the cable in that particular section (the clothes/ dryer is plugged in there now) can handle it...   ? > Last issue: IIRC US wall outlets deliver 110V 60 Hz AC power.   J Right, usually... In most homes, though, there are a few different outlets/ for things like air conditioning, dryer, etc...   L > It may all work, just be careful because it is so easy to put a power cord > on aJ > device which just happens to match the outlet. I once saw a new Japanese	 > printer K > plugged in a socket, only the power cord was replaced. Now Japan has 100V N > and the outlet was (then) 220V. The printer exploded discreetly, but messily
 > once the > cadaver was opened up....   E So you're saying I should be sure I plug it into the right outlet? :)   H Again, hopefully I'll have one that matches -- it seems from the limitedJ look I've had at the machine to exactly match one particular outlet...  Of* course, I'll check it before I plug it in.   Thanks,    Chris   O =============================================================================== @ "My two cents"			(http://rootworks.com/twocentsworth.cgi?128562)= Christopher Smith(chriss@pubserv.com)			Prgramer^W Programmer  Prime Synergy of Champaign, IL. % ------------------------------------- I "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes and H weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes; and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949  O -------------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:47:42 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> : Subject: Re: advice on adopting reasonably large computers, Message-ID: <3957973A.2DC95F1B@videotron.ca>   Christopher Smith wrote:E > Yeah, the outlet that I'd be plugging it in to is 220 volts, in two F > phases, I believe -- the machine also seems to be 220 in two phases.K > (There are also two 110 volt circuits in the building, and theoretically, 7 > I could get 220 in two phases from those, I think...)   M What I would strongly suggest is that you get a dedicated circuit breaker for K your new big toy. And when you put it into the circuit breaker box, you can 6 make sure it gets the proper leads from the bus bars.   I If the individual components inside the computers are using 110v standard M outlets, have you considered just plugging them into a standard power bar and ' bypass the whole complex power supply ?    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:44:40 +0100 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>) Subject: Re: Alternative to Pathworks-NFS + Message-ID: <8j755m$mg2@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>   5 "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> wrote in message 9 news:skP45.31329$9W1.527868@news-west.usenetserver.com...   H > The other problem is, when the NT client or gateway first connects, inC > the VMS NFS log (TCPIP$NFS_vmsnode_LOGFILE.LOG) I get the message E > TCPIP-E-NFS_PROGVS, invalid RPC program version number, followed by H > TCPIP-NFS_RPCHDR, xid=4BEC0C50 program = 100005 version= 3 procedure =5 > 0.  It seems to be a warning as I do get connected.   S It's asking for NFSv3, which isn't yet supported. It's the same with Tru64 clients.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:14:11 +0107 2 From: Sue Rosselet <system@CSLAB.Bemidji.MSUS.edu> Subject: backup/image problem 9 Message-ID: <009EC2F0.7FBC125C.45@CSLAB.Bemidji.MSUS.edu>    Folks,  E I am attempting to restore an image backup from a tape to a new disk. $ This is on an Alpha, using OVMS 7.1.  9 According to the OVMS System Manager's Manual: Essentials <    When you use the /IMAGE qualifier in a restore operation,@    the disk to which you are restoring the files is initialized. So I did not INIT the new disk.   H Following the directions and example in the manual, I have the followingG .COM file.  I have checked the save set name, so I know that's correct.    $! mount tape drive  $ mount/foreign mka200:  $! $! Mount the new disk  $ mount/foreign dkb600:  $!7 $ backup/image/verify   mka200:disk.bck/rewind  dkb600:  $! $! Dismount the devices  $ dismount mka200: $ dismount/nounload dkb600:   A When I try this, both mka200: and dkb600: are mounted, but at the 9   $ backup/image/verify   mka200:disk.bck/rewind  dkb600:  I get the following:  H %BACKUP-F-BADSETCNT, incorrect number of devices in output specification  - What an I missing in my output specification?    TIA.   Sue Rosselet system@cslab.bemidji.msus.edu    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:06:59 GMT % From: "P.Lj" <plj@byron.ext.telia.se> . Subject: Re: Can I boot VAX6600 from DSSI disk2 Message-ID: <395719B1.D34F9410@byron.ext.telia.se>   Hi,   * yes you can, the boot syntax is like this:   B /XMI:# /NODE=:x000n di#    example:7 where:  x = 2 or 3:  2 = KFMSA port 1, 3 = KFMSA port 2  n = DSSI node ID  D DEVICE DIA5 a DSSI node ID of 4, connected to port 2 through a KFMSA' located in slot 4 of the XMI backplane:    >>> b /xmi:4 /node:30004  di5   $ on my own 6420 I have the following:    >>> boot /xmi:c /node:30001  di1  
 good luck!  	 >>> ^P.Lj    Richard Hammersley wrote:   H > I want to have an HSD05 attached to a KFMSA (XMI DSSI) and have one ofI > the disks attached to the HSD05 as the system disk.  Can this be done ?  > 9 > Any idea what the console boot string would look like ?  >  > Running VMS 5.5-2. >  > Thank you. >  > Richard Hammersley   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jun 2000 17:10:29 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> ) Subject: Re: Charon-VAX Hobbyist Question H Message-ID: <y4hfag32ca.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  2 Timothy Stark <sword7@grace.speakeasy.org> writes:  B > No, it does not support Ethernet.  It is strictly closed system.  L Hmmm, the "Specifications" web page says it emulates the DEQNA. Is it wrong?   	Jan   ------------------------------  / Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:36:52 +0200 (MET DST) & From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>0 Subject: Re: Cisco Has DECNet Ping - VMS Doesn't/ Message-ID: <200006261041.MAA30590@fom.fgan.de>    Hello,  G if you would like to get timing information, use the DTSEND utility. It G is a very good utility, and I did find with them a few network problems 2 like performance degration and defect controllers.   Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 02:07:21 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> / Subject: Re: Compaq paying for software ports ? ( Message-ID: <8j6rti$dc4$1@pyrite.mv.net>  @ David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message' news:3956986F.907B4157@earthlink.net...  > Bill Todd wrote: > [snip]@ > > No, someone apparently less incompetent than you seem to be. > [snip] > B > Geez, Bill! I didn't realize there was a nomination open for the> > successor to Carl Lydick! You've got a REAL good shot at it!  E As I've said before, my responses often take on the coloration of the  material they're responding to.   H In this case, I responded to someone who not only clearly has not a clueK what he's talking about (his latest drivel suggests that he's as unaware of G thread support in VMS - and why that might be useful, especially on SMP C systems - as he is of the techniques available to make a Unix-style J interface a robust one) but feels free to insult people with whose opinion  he, in his ignorance, disagrees.  F Ignorance by itself is no crime.  And I have no objection to bluntnessH (which, given how blunt I can be myself, should not be surprising).  ButJ someone who combines ignorance with outright rudeness deserves, IMO, to be verbally slapped in the face.   I I can't say I really care much whether you approve, but I've explained my K response just in case you didn't bother to examine the context of my remark  before responding to it.   - bill   > @ > When my wife gets like that, I *ASK* her to take a (PMS) pill. >  > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems $ > http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/ > < > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:- > http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Jun 2000 15:15:53 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)/ Subject: Re: Compaq paying for software ports ? , Message-ID: <8j7s39$p9a@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  e In article <3956237a$4$lllp186$mr2ice@news.flashcom.com>, yyyc186.illegaltospam_@flashcom.net writes: 2 >In <3951775D.E8BDE9E8@videotron.ca>, on 06/25/00 > >   at 11:20 AM, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> said: > I >>To be the devil's advocate, what if the VMS engineers were busy working G >>on full unix compliance of VMS which would make all ports much easier  >>from unix source code ?  > K >Which would make VMS as febil an OS for production use as UNIX is and thus K >Bill Gates would finally have one and all OS's on the market would suck as J >bad as NT, therefore everyone could just run the sucky NT OS.  Talk aboutJ >heading in the  WRONG direction.  Let me guess, a Compaq MBA came up with, >this idea....could it have been Palmer?????  3 What the !!!! are you talking about?  NT .nes. UNIX   L And the sad truth of the matter is that something > 95% of OpenVMS software J these days is ported from Unix sources.  I'd guess <1 % has its origin on C Windows - the only one I know of for sure is the Pathworks server.    H Although OpenVMS ports have their own peculiar set of problems, the one I thing they generally do not represent is any sort of a security hole.  So D long as they aren't installed with privs, and aren't run from priv'dK accounts, there's generally nothing a regular user can do with one to break 8 into a system. Bog it down, sure, become SYSTEM, never.    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech  J **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:26:34 -0400 " From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org>/ Subject: Re: Compaq paying for software ports ? : Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000626132453.00cb65a0@24.8.96.48>  + At 12:46 PM 6/25/00 -0400, Bill Todd wrote: 9 >Things like Unix buffer-overrun weaknesses don't need to F >compromise robustness either - as long as null-terminated strings areJ >validated before use, something VMS has proven fairly competent at doing.  D This is, unfortunately, potentially non-trivially expensive. Not an L argument to not do it, more an argument to not take null-terminated strings  in system services...    					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"------------------- 2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and even ;                                       teddy bears get drunk    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:41:46 +0100 2 From: Chris Sharman <Chris.Sharman@CCAgroup.co.uk>1 Subject: Re: DFU V2.6 crashed my system today ... - Message-ID: <3957336A.42AC3B3@CCAgroup.co.uk>    Marc Van Dyck wrote: > L > A little note to let the audience know that there are still some potential5 > problems with even the more recent versions of DFU.J > J > Today I used it to undelete a bunch of modparams include files that wereK > accidentally deleted from sys$common:[sysexe], and near the conclusion of K > the undelete command (i.e. after it asked for all the confirmations), the K > system crashed with an 'invalid XQP function' error, or something to thatcM > effect. After reboot, I saw that some of the files I asked to undelete wereoK > back, but not all. Given that it is a production system, I didn't care to  > try again. > K > I have a dump and will give it to my Compaq service engineer when he willcC > visit us next wednesday. Now, is this worth mentioning to the DFU  > maintainer, and if yes, how ?e   From the DFU 2.7 documentation:i  : "Although there is no official support on DFU you may mail$ questions/remarks/bug reports to the author via internet at:    ton.dorland@compaq.com."  @ You don't say what VMS version you're using: DFU 2.7 is stronglyG recommended for VMS 7.2. If you're using 2.6 with ODS5, then your crasho is probably not unexpected.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:58:17 +0200.3 From: "The Wizard of Odz2" <ton.dorland@compaq.com>.1 Subject: Re: DFU V2.6 crashed my system today ...R* Message-ID: <8j79mc$t6b@usenet.pa.dec.com>       A few remarks :   '     - the latest version of DFU is V2.7r  D     - DFU doesn't do any privileged code (kernel code). It calls XQP	 functionsrL        so if you have a crash I strongly recommend installing the latest XQP patches.  F     - The discussion about ODS2/ODS5 is useless, because a system disk(         is always ODS2 (cannot be ODS5).  K     Before doing any undelete , first verify the disk with ANAL/DISK and/or:"     DFU VERIFY. One never knows...         Kind regards,g       Ton Dorland (DFU Author).a              9 "Marc Van Dyck" <marc.vandyck@skynet.be> wrote in message $ news:8j1175$ajm$1@news0.skynet.be...L > A little note to let the audience know that there are still some potential5 > problems with even the more recent versions of DFU.  > J > Today I used it to undelete a bunch of modparams include files that wereK > accidentally deleted from sys$common:[sysexe], and near the conclusion of-K > the undelete command (i.e. after it asked for all the confirmations), theaK > system crashed with an 'invalid XQP function' error, or something to thattH > effect. After reboot, I saw that some of the files I asked to undelete wereK > back, but not all. Given that it is a production system, I didn't care tof > try again. >mK > I have a dump and will give it to my Compaq service engineer when he willrC > visit us next wednesday. Now, is this worth mentioning to the DFUt > maintainer, and if yes, how ?  >  > Marc.e >c >l   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 06:25:15 +0001oC From: You're Not The Boss Of Me Now <request_information@yahoo.com>o Subject: Free Internet Access - Message-ID: <0FWR00EHSCDGM3@mx.west.saic.com>c   <html> <head>* <title>Your not the boss of me now</title>E <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-  1">  </head>    <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">> <table width="563" border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" 
 height="331">h   <tr> e     <td width="150"><img CB src="http://www.yournotthebossofmenow.com/skyman.jpg" width="150"  height="50"></td>t%     <td colspan="2" width="407"><img h: src="http://www.yournotthebossofmenow.com/bossbanner.gif"  width="400" height="50"></td>2   </tr>0   <tr>  &     <td width="150" height="212"><img : src="http://www.yournotthebossofmenow.com/ourmission.gif"  width="150" height="100"><br>s	     </td>n;     <td colspan="2" width="407" valign="top" height="212">  D       <table width="220" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"  height="206" align="left">9         <tr align="left" valign="top" bgcolor="#6699CC"> a           <td> tC             <p><font color="#FFFFFF" size="2" face="Arial, Tahoma,   Verdana">Create I               your free ecommerce business online today and recieve free w	 internet c                access.</font></p>H                         <p><font face="Arial, Tahoma, Verdana" size="2"  color="#FFFFFF">Click F               <a href="http://www.yournotthebossofmenow.com">here</a>  to find "               out more.</font></p>           </td>e
         </tr>h       </table>?       <img src="http://www.yournotthebossofmenow.com/boss.gif"  , width="150" height="200" align="right"></td>   </tr>s   <tr align="center">      <td colspan="3"><img g@ src="http://www.yournotthebossofmenow.com/free.gif" width="400"  height="50" border="0"></td>   </tr>e </table>> <table width="564" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"  height="74">!   <tr align="left" valign="top"> k	     <td>  
       <p><br>a9         <font size="2" face="Arial, Tahoma, Verdana"><br> E         This email can not be considered spam as long as we include: d Contact information H         &amp; remove instructions. This message is being sent to you in  compliance ,O         with the current Federal legislation for commercial e-mail (H.R.4176 - lD         SECTION 101 Paragraph (e) (1)(A)) AND Bill s.1618 TITLE III 
 passed by K         the 105th U.S. Congress. Not responsible for typographical errors. t
 Availability I)         of product subject to change.<br>gL         Further transmissions to you by may be stopped at no cost to you by 	 replying wI         back with the word &quot;REMOVE&quot; in the subject line of the   E-mail a"         which was sent.</font></p>       </td>s   </tr>g </table> </body>o </html>    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:50:46 +0100d2 From: Chris Sharman <Chris.Sharman@CCAgroup.co.uk>6 Subject: Re: How 2 unpack MIME mail attachments in VMS. Message-ID: <39573586.1D480D70@CCAgroup.co.uk>   JF Mezei wrote:= > L > > > Does anyone know a way to unpack (decode) MIME file attachments within
 > > > VMS? >  > MAIL> EXTRACT temp.tmp > MAIL>EXITh
 > $MC MIME > MIME>OPEN TEMP.TMP > MIME>EXTRACT > MIME>EXITa > R > Question: why does MIME clear the screen when it starts ? That is very annoying.  # The whole thing is 'very annoying'. D After several patches, the documentation now has words to the effectD that the current version of mime is only compatible with itself, notE other implementations of mime. Not a lot of use to me, or, I suspect,- many other people.  H If you're on a workstation, netscape (even 3.03) does a good job most ofD the time, although if you want to read attachments in MS proprietary' formats, it's (naturally) very limited.5   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Jun 2000 17:59:30 GMT- From: "Phil Tregoning" <ptregoni@esoc.esa.de>oA Subject: How to create a native VMS command - and a few questions2= Message-ID: <01bfdf96$b1cf3b20$4b53b083@ptregoni.esoc.esa.de>e   Hello,  B I've just put up a web page describing how to create a native(ish) VMS command. Have a look atn  9   http:\\members.fortunecity.com/twirlip/vms_command.html   ? and tell me what you think (anything from typos and bad English 0 to "No no, you fool, do it again like this...").  C While I was writing this, I had a few problems. Some are really for ? Compaq (Hoff?), and some are about how I am doing things wrong.t  + 1. Why aren't the developer manuals online?w9    For example _POLYCENTER_Software_Installation_Utility_-A    Developer's_Guide_ and _Guide_to_DEC_Module_Management_System_"     for_OpenVMS_Systems aren't at  )       http:\\www.openvms.digital.com:80008  = 2. Is there any way to get status codes into the help message..    library so that this works for my messages:         $ FOOs%       %FOO-F-FOOERR, FOO had an errore       $ HELP /MESSAGEt  C    At the moment, it only works if you supply the message text likeG    this:  .       $ HELP /MESSAGE FOOERR, FOO had an error  D 3. Is there any way of getting message files searched automatically?  H    At the moment, if I want to find one my own messages with F$MESSAGE()
    like this:e         $ FOOa%       %FOO-F-FOOERR, FOO had an errort+       $ WRITE SYS$OUTPUT F$MESSAGE($STATUS)-%       %FOO-F-FOOERR, FOO had an error,  0    I have to first do a SET MESSAGE FOO_MSG.EXE   B 4. The PCSI PDF module command should be updated to recognise help&    message files; something like this:  '       MODULE FOO.MSGHLP TYPE MESSAGE...r  0    At the moment I have to use EXECUTE commands.  B 5. What am I doing wrong when I call lib$signal()? I am calling it@    with the number of FAO arguments as the second parameter like    this:  .        lib$signal(FOOWARN, 2, param1, param2);  D    But the help doesn't mention anything about passing the number of5    FAO directives. Calling it like this doesn't work:t  +        lib$signal(FOOWARN, param1, param2);v  .    but this is how the manual says to call it.  B 6. I am assigning status codes (with MESSAGE FOO.MSG) on the build@    system, which could lead to duplicates when I come to install$    FOO on a different target system.  <    For example, someone could already have installed the BAR    application, and          SYS$MESSAGE:FOO.EXEe       SYS$MESSAGE:BAR.EXEi  =    end up with different messages with the same status codes.n      Is this a problem?,  :    I tried to get PCSI to generate the status codes during@    installation, but my PDF file was getting so nasty I gave up.    Thanks for any help or feedback.   Phil T   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:06:13 -0400l# From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>C7 Subject: Re: Humour link for the anti-MS among us......3+ Message-ID: <39575545.D561F484@hsc.vcu.edu>   ( hafrhahrahahahahahahaha a   rotflmao!!!!  0 start at the home page, it's the entire strip!!!   Thanks, Shane!!!  " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > % > http://www.badtech.com/a/0/4/9.htmld   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 18:48:58 +0100 / From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>v6 Subject: re: Latest Compaq mailshot still ignoring VMS6 Message-ID: <009EC327.A6A23340.2@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>   > > >tL > > Why isn't it fair to represent these new servers by presenting all their4 > > capabilities, rather than a limited set of them? > M > For the same reason it's not fair to blame the ad for failing to talk aboutn6 > the wonders of Win2K, another of Compaq's offerings. > L > This is not a generic *Compaq* ad.  Nor is it a generic *Compaq Alpha* ad,K > though the wording kind of makes it sound like one.  It's a *Compaq Alpha:= > Unix* ad, and as such has no particular reason to tout VMS.l > N > So chalk it up in that column, and ask whether the VMS column has comparable  > entries.  And if not, why not. >  > - bill   Bill,s   have you seen it?.  C It's a GS-server 'ad. Underneath "UNIX SERVER" in inch-high lettersiH are pictures of GS320 and other GS boxes. The covering letter comes from@ someone whose job title is "Alphaserver Business Director", not K "Unix Server Business director". He writes a letter screaming "Very serious4E about UNIX". Throughout his letter, UNIX is capitalized -- that's then= print equivalent of screaming, since Unix is not an acronym.    B At the very least, it's insensitive, and suggests strongly that heG hasn't yet heard that Compaq is also "very serious about VMS". There's -M hundreds of other ways to run such an 'ad, or at the very least the covering bJ letter could have come from the "Unix Servers director" (who could be the " very same chap wearing a new hat).  	 			Nigel.D  t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 08:46:11 -0400e  From: "Jim Kim" <sjkim@istar.ca>C Subject: looking for a list of Canadian companies using Vax systemse8 Message-ID: <a5I55.19641$Ip.496768@cac1.rdr.news.psi.ca>   Hi,a  I I'm looking for a list of Canadian companies using Vax systems in Canada.s'  I can't find any information about it.p Thanks in advance...   Jima   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:36:27 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> G Subject: Re: looking for a list of Canadian companies using Vax systemso, Message-ID: <39579498.453469E1@videotron.ca>   Jim Kim wrote: >  > Hi,  > K > I'm looking for a list of Canadian companies using Vax systems in Canada. ) >  I can't find any information about it.l  M running VAX systems, opr really USING vax systems ? That is a big difference.nL In once case, they just leave the switch on and allow whatever apps are leftN on it to run unattended. In the other, they are actively continuing deployment4 of applications, enhancements etc etc to their apps.  > There are many in the first case. And far fewer of the second.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:59:59 +0100a2 From: Ashley Shepherd <ashley.shepherd@virgin.net>4 Subject: Re: Monitoring Tool for CIS app on Open VMS8 Message-ID: <im5els0com1q6kil10rnouk60p7btf0gcr@4ax.com>  ? On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 23:56:27 GMT, "KBHR" <KBHR@nx57.com> wrote:   D You should also look at Sightline from Fortel   www.fortel.com    asF this tool is far better than any of those already mentioned.  Before IB starting working for Fortel, I had evaluated all other performanceE products and choose Sightline (Formerly ViewPoint).  Give it/us a go,e# you'll be surprised what we can do..  F Also, I don't know CIS.  What is it?  If we don't already collect dataB on it, I'm certain we can produce a dedicated data collector quite quickly.   Regards    Ashley Shepherd 
 Consultant
 Fortel Ltd  K >Has anyone tried to monitor a CIS app on an Open VMS?  Tool considerations H >are Compuware's EcoTOOLS, BMS's Patrol, and CAUnicenter's version.  Has4 >anyone used any of these tools to monitor Open VMS? >h >Thanksk >M  6 >***************************************************** >Ashley Shepherd i >Consultancy ServicesO% >email to  ashley.shepherd@virgin.neta6 >*****************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:42:08 +0200 $ From: reindert.voorhorst@philips.com; Subject: Re: My experience with Charon-VAX Hobbyist Edition - Message-ID: <0056890011797585000002L952*@MHS>e   l..S.   H Actually there exists a way to import/export data from Charon VAX to th= e outside world providedH the availability of proper tape hardware. One cannot however use the sa=$ me tape mount twice; once dismountedH it cannot be remounted again. The tape should be connectable to a VAX a=- nd to the Nt-box; it can be handled on Charon H through the standaard TK driver mechanism. For instance a DAT recorder =0 can read/write on a VAX and on Charon. AmazinglyH even a Tandberg SLR100 works in this way and with some performance as w=B ell even though it has some flaws on Open-VMS (Alpha in this case)H and within Charon but it allowed to import Alpha files from an image ba= ckup into the Charon emulator.   											Regards,* 											R.V.                 1 sword7@grace.speakeasy.org on 06/26/2000 05:06:16* To:	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com@SMTP cc:	=20*; Subject:	Re: My experience with Charon-VAX Hobbyist Edition- Classification:	Restricted6 David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote:H > Well, one item that comes to mind is the LDDRIVER/VDDRIVER capability=  to0H > mount ISO-9660 filesystems as well as ODS. MKISOFS_VMS (something of = a H > rarity in VAX land, but I think I have a .EXE for it somewhere) could=  betE > used to generate a suitably exportable container. That can later be H > mounted in UN*X-land (including Linux) as a "loop" device, or burned = to) > CD-R and then read under W/9x and W/NT.N   David:  H Oh, I see.  How do I make ODS2-based disk image file or CD under Linux?=    
 Thank you!   -- Tim Stark   --C Timothy Stark	<><	Inet: sword7@speakeasy.org, sword7@firesword7.net-H -----------------------------------------------------------------------= --- E "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that H whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life= .o. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible)         =S   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 02:23:54 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>.@ Subject: Re: Northern Light vs. Google (and the winner is . . .)( Message-ID: <8j6ssk$e32$1@pyrite.mv.net>  5 Keith Brown <kbrown780@usfamily.net> wrote in messageJ& news:39564AE8.99010182@usfamily.net... >  > > Bill Todd wrote:K > > I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry, because shared-disk approaches in G > > cases like these don't offer sufficient advantage to compensate foro theiriE > > decidedly non-commodity nature.  Now, if Compaq were to develop ao* > > *commodity* shared-disk file system... > >h >s= > How inexpensive can it be to duplicate disks over thousands.# > systems even at commodity prices?,  I I'm not sure what you're getting at.  When you partition a database, eachCK system handles a specific portion of the data (it's not fully replicated on > every system, though each portion would likely be mirrored forL availability).  And in-coming requests get vectored by one or more front-endG systems to the system(s) responsible for the relevant portion(s) of ther data.   L The total storage required should be about the same for both shared-disk andI non-shared-disk architectures.  However, it might be significant that IDEhL drives could likely fairly easily be used in a commodity-server environment:E can VMS systems export IDE drives as (likely shadowed) cluster disks?<   - bill   >p > --
 > Keith Brown: > kbrown780@usfamily.net   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Jun 2000 09:39:36 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)@ Subject: Re: Northern Light vs. Google (and the winner is . . .)+ Message-ID: <VZkzGzloNz$H@eisner.decus.org>u  R In article <8j6ssk$e32$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes: > 7 > Keith Brown <kbrown780@usfamily.net> wrote in message ( > news:39564AE8.99010182@usfamily.net... >> >> > Bill Todd wrote:tL >> > I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry, because shared-disk approaches inH >> > cases like these don't offer sufficient advantage to compensate for > theirrF >> > decidedly non-commodity nature.  Now, if Compaq were to develop a+ >> > *commodity* shared-disk file system...t >> > >>> >> How inexpensive can it be to duplicate disks over thousands$ >> systems even at commodity prices? > K > I'm not sure what you're getting at.  When you partition a database, eachcM > system handles a specific portion of the data (it's not fully replicated on @ > every system, though each portion would likely be mirrored forN > availability).  And in-coming requests get vectored by one or more front-endI > systems to the system(s) responsible for the relevant portion(s) of thee > data.  > N > The total storage required should be about the same for both shared-disk andK > non-shared-disk architectures.  However, it might be significant that IDE N > drives could likely fairly easily be used in a commodity-server environment:G > can VMS systems export IDE drives as (likely shadowed) cluster disks?- >    	Follow and read this overview:0  M http://www.intel.com/ebusiness/estrategies/casestudies/snapshots/google_p.htmc  C 	They have many clusters, each apparently duplicated.  Each clusters= 	contains partitioned data.  The 1000 chickens versus 64 oxenn/ 	are winning.  But more about this in a bit :-)n   				Robl   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:43:06 -0400d' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>a@ Subject: Re: Northern Light vs. Google (and the winner is . . .)( Message-ID: <8j7tl5$jer$1@pyrite.mv.net>  5 Rob Young <young_r@eisner.decus.org> wrote in messages% news:VZkzGzloNz$H@eisner.decus.org.../   ...r    > Follow and read this overview: >  >tL http://www.intel.com/ebusiness/estrategies/casestudies/snapshots/google_p.ht m< > D > They have many clusters, each apparently duplicated.  Each cluster> > contains partitioned data.  The 1000 chickens versus 64 oxen0 > are winning.  But more about this in a bit :-)  K Not bad.  Kind of surprises me that each uniprocessor Linux system can only>J handle 22 - 40 GB of data (with 256 MB - 1 GB of RAM), but it sounds as ifL they're limited by the choice of 100 Mbit Ethernet as the interconnect - andJ the cost of anything faster (plus the multi-PCI, perhaps SMP system neededL to make good use of it) may be enough higher than a vanilla commodity system to discourage that route.   H With the newer IDE disks supporting disconnectable operation (and GoogleI already willing to write software, so they could write the IDE drivers to D support this), it becomes even more attractive from the storage costL viewpoint - and it sounds as if the cost of the IDE drives alone constitutesB close to 50% of the cost of each box.  Given this partitionable anG application, it's almost impossible to compete on purchase price with agK larger centralized box using SCSI drives (leaving aside the question of whydK IDE drives are so much less expensive); given that it's not a life-criticalgG application, the fact that the hardware is less self-checking and might"H return brief garbage on the occasional failure isn't that important (andD Linux is pretty stable on the OS end); given the box standardizationJ throughout the structure, sounds as if any failure results in an immediate2 box-swap, and can then be trouble-shot at leisure.  G So the only obvious large-box argument would be the spaghetti of cablesNK linking the boxes.  Telcos lived with that problem for a very long time, sos Google may be able to as well.   - bill   >i > Rob  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:52:04 -0600b1 From: Glen Martin <GLENMARK@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu> E Subject: Re: Not waiting for the shoe to drop. was: Re: VAX on Intel?e4 Message-ID: <395751F4.7C6560B4@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu>   Brad McCusker wrote:  E > Care to elaborate on that?  This is news to me, I mean, we just got2H > PATHWORKS onto the edu program about a year or so ago, I can't believeF > its been taken off already, and why.  Please feel free to email backF > channel, I'd like to know what you heard, and who you heard it from.G > (I suspect its a geo specific thing if it really is correct, not that  > that helps any)X > 
 > Regards, >  > Brad McCuskerI% > OpenVMS Advanced Server EngineeringT  A When our ESL/CSLG subscription came up for renewal this month, wetH learned that Advanced Server is now an extra-cost option. We had to passH on it, unfortunately (just as I was getting ready to upgrade our systems% to an OS level that would run it...).m   Glen Mark Martin NT/OpenVMS Servicesa University of Texas at Austin    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:43:28 -0700e! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comm( Subject: O/T but damn funny - S-CommerceC Message-ID: <OFAE247DC9.5F59C28B-ON8825690A.00612FD6@HEALTHNET.COM>m  F This one's from my brother, Craig, and I just had to share it. All theG people are real, so's the company, but I have permission to re-post it.a   ShaneM   -># > Change in Paxar's E-Commerce planD >0' > New Business-to-Consumer Retail Crazes >eI > They're calling it "S-Commerce" or 'shops' and it's being rolled out inv > cities and towns nationwide. >nH > "It's a real revelation," according to Devin Smith, a business systems > manager from Essex.tJ > "You just walk into one of these shops and they have all sorts of things > for sale."F > Smith was particular impressed by a clothes shop he discovered while > browsing in central London.wI > "Shops seem to be the ideal medium for transactions of this type. I can K > actually try out a jacket and see if it fits me. Then I can visualize thei2 > way I would look if I was wearing the clothing."I > This is possible using a high definition 2D viewing system, or "mirror"8 as > it has become known. >sG > Shops, which are frequently aggregated into shopping portals or "highmJ > streets", are becoming increasingly popular with the cash-rich time-poorG > generation of new consumers. Often located in densely populated areas F > people can find them extremely convenient. And Devin is not alone in being  > impressed by shops.g >sI > "Some days I just don't have the time to download huge Flash animationsn ofK > rotating trainers and then wait five days for them to be delivered in theF$ > hope that they will actually fit," >Y: > Says Tom Potts, a systems analyst/developer from Harlow. >rI > "This way I can actually complete the transaction in real time and walk  > away with the goods."u >tF > Being able see whether or not shoes and clothing fit has been a real bonusO > for Potts,F > "I used to spend my evenings boxing up gear to return. Sometimes the@ > clothes didn't fit, sometimes they just sent the wrong stuff." > D > Shops have a compelling commercial story to tell too, according to PAXAR'sb" > European IT Manager David Gould. > G > "There are massive efficiencies in the supply chain. By concentratingF: > distribution to a series of high volume outlets in urban centres-typically,J > close to where people live and work-businesses can make dramatic savingsF > in fulfilment costs. Just compare this with the wasteful practise of0 > delivering items piecemeal to people's homes."J > Furthermore, allowing consumers to receive goods when they actually wantG > them could mean an end to the frustration of returning home to find aGG > despatch notice telling you that your goods are waiting in a deliveryeE > depot the other side of town. But it's not just the convenience andt$ > time-saving that appeals to Gould, >uI > "Visiting a shop is real relief for me. I mean as it is I spend all dayh in > front of a fucking computer."l   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:59:55 -07000* From: Matt Evans <evans@hydrogen.ucsc.edu>- Subject: OpenVMS Alpha C programming question.1 Message-ID: <39578C0B.1F1A9012@hydrogen.ucsc.edu>   E I have just begun experimentation with 64-bit unsigned long long datatD types.  I am normally a UNIX programmer and I am somewhat unfamiliarF with the the OpenVMS environment (specifically, 64-bit C programming).A My question (and statement) is that I can't seem to get the shiftiG operators to work, i.e. 1<<63 does not give a correct result, it simplysH gives zero.  The shift operator only seems to work with shifts less thanE 32 bits.  However, I can create a bitmask (example 0x8000000000000000 ? which is the hexadecimal equivalent of the 64th bit) and use it C successfully.  I just can't seem to get the shift operators to work < corectly with the 64 bit unsigned long longs.  Please help!?   -Matte   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:10:42 -0400a" From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org>1 Subject: Re: OpenVMS Alpha C programming questionh: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000626130826.00ae6670@24.8.96.48>  , At 09:59 AM 6/26/00 -0700, Matt Evans wrote:F >I have just begun experimentation with 64-bit unsigned long long dataE >types.  I am normally a UNIX programmer and I am somewhat unfamiliar'G >with the the OpenVMS environment (specifically, 64-bit C programming). B >My question (and statement) is that I can't seem to get the shiftH >operators to work, i.e. 1<<63 does not give a correct result, it simplyI >gives zero.  The shift operator only seems to work with shifts less thanuF >32 bits.  However, I can create a bitmask (example 0x8000000000000000@ >which is the hexadecimal equivalent of the 64th bit) and use itD >successfully.  I just can't seem to get the shift operators to work= >corectly with the 64 bit unsigned long longs.  Please help!?t   Well, this:      #include <stdio>   #include <stdlib>i     void main () {     unsigned long long foo = 1;i     foo <<= 63;d      printf("foo is %Li\n", foo);   }h   produces this:      foo is 9223372036854775808-  I so it works for me. What's the code look like, and what version of Dec C?c   					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"-------------------I2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and even ;                                       teddy bears get drunk    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:20:00 -060001 From: Glen Martin <GLENMARK@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu>@7 Subject: Re: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clustersa4 Message-ID: <39574A70.7B5955C6@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu>   Main, Kerry wrote: >  > JF,  > J > >> A ferrari might be much better than a yugo/lada, but if all I need isL > something to carry my groceries from the store to home, then the yugo/ladaI > is more than sufficient and spending all the extra cash for the ferraric > would be a waste.<<< >  > Yep, everything in its place.  > L > Of course, if you want to take the family on a vacation, impress CustomersM > when you take them to lunch in your car, or need a vehicle that can get youiM > to the store in foot high snow banks or icy hills, or absolutely never want-M > to have the car breakdown with a car full of groceries that could spoil (oreN > melt) if not put in a fridge for some time, then the requirements might also > change as well.1  @ Along these lines, I think that the Ferrari analogy is off-base:   Win9x:  Yugo Mac:	New Beatle H NT:	A shiny new SUV which needs its transmission rebuilt waaay too often< Linux:	Free blueprints for a nice do-it-yourself panel truck> Commercial Unix:	A semi truck (artic truck to those in the UK)E OpenVMS or Tandem:	A NonStop freight train... (Q marketing, feel more  than free to run with it...)  E The last item seems appropos given the story about the Irish Nat'l RR 5 keeping a VAX/VMS system up for almost two decades...a   Glen   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 15:45:09 GMTo/ From: "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net>p# Subject: oracle 8.1.6 for Alhpa VMS F Message-ID: <9UK55.1724$pu6.177143@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>  H I have heard that this has now been made available to Compaq and will be% orderable by the customers very soon.*  % As they say,  Better late than never.n  G If they make it before July, then the target date of April will have at* least* been in the same quarter.*   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Jun 2000 08:09:06 GMT3 From: vance@alumni.caltech.edu (Vance R. Haemmerle)jK Subject: Powerstorm 300/350, Open3D, New Alpha workstations and PEX support0, Message-ID: <8j7332$euu@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  ! Software:  OpenVMS Alpha V7.1-1H2t            Open3D V4.4   Current Hardware: DPW 600au + New Hardware: Alphastation XP1000 or DS20E?   I   We're in the market for new VMS Alpha workstations but I see a problem.eI We have an application given to us from JPL that runs on another platformbH (Solaris) that for security reasons can only run on a particular machineL given to us by them.  We display the output of this application on our otherN workstations.  However, this application requires the PEX X-windows extension.H The applications fails to display on our Tru64 workstations with the PEXD extension but does work on our OpenVMS ones!  We'd like to keep this& functionality on our new workstations.  K   Here's the problem:  I've read that PEX support has been dropped from the6L newest version of Open3D, version 4.9A.   Currently we use version 4.4 whichL has this support on the 4D20 and 3D30 graphics adaptors.  Open3D version 4.4L requires VMS V7.1 and the New hardware is supported on VMS V7.1-2, so far so good.  Here's my questions:R  H 1) I recently saw the announcement of support for the PowerStorm 300 andG    350 graphics adaptors on OpenVMS.  The announcement says the support H    is for OpenVMS V7.2-1.  The release notes mention 3D support, howeverG    the most recent version of Open3D says it supports 7.1, not 7.2.  So F    does this mean that Open3D V4.9A runs under VMS V7.2-1?  If so, canJ    Open3D V4.4 also?  You can see where I'm going... can I use Open3D V4.4K    to get the PEX extension to work on current hardware (Powerstorm 300/350 0    and XP1000 or DS20E) and current OS (V7.2-1)?  L 2) If not, and I have to upgrade to V7.1-2 and stay there to run Open3D V4.4O    and have PEX, can the Alphastation XP1000 and/or DS20E use the 4D20 graphicsi    adaptor?s  # 3) Why the dropping of PEX support?l   -- Vance Haemmerlen vance@alumni.caltech.edu   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 07:16:03 GMT  From: k_knutson@my-deja.comB= Subject: Re: Pricing of hardware/software for hobbist/students) Message-ID: <8j6vvd$q77$1@nnrp1.deja.com>-  ( In article <3954DE81.4BEF042E@mpcm.org>,$   Matt Morley <matt@mpcm.org> wrote:H > I just graduated high school and will be attending a community college > in the Fall. > E > I've spent just over the last year working part time for a softwarei> > company (Software Partners) that writes backup/restore/media
 management@ > for VMS (amoung many things). I've been doing testing on other projects, > and doing web/network related stuff there. > G > I've been reading up on the user manuals for OpenVMS from work duringa myG > spare time and was wondering what it would cost to get a small systemi up > and running with TCP/IP. >sG > I currently have several windows/Linux/BSD machines and would like tot > add VMS to my network. > # > Anyone got suggestions on prices?. >n > -- > Sincerely,
 > Matt Morleyy > c/o MPCM Graphicsd >y > http://www.MPCMGraphics.combF > Developing and implementing custom web based solutions to solve your > problems.e >o  = I have one of the many Alpha Station 255's that bunches of useE purchased last year on Auction Warehouse.  Put a CD, Memory bump, 2Gbr drive and even ran RedHat 4.5..s  F I would love to Sell for $750..  It WORKS.. I just don't have the timeE and interest are elsewhere..  The $750 is what I have in on the Box..aB I gave up on Linux and Don't have any OS on it currently.  SRM was# upgraded about 15 month's ago..  kks    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:30:21 +0200t- From: "Yulian Memolis" <yulian_m@percite.com>< Subject: print que problems 0 Message-ID: <8j70oc$hea$1@news.netvision.net.il>  L Hello, i am running OpenVMS7.1 on an Alpha System, and i have a problem with print queuesJ that even Digital / Compaq support can't solve, so maybe someone out thereJ has encountered a similar problem (and found a solution). The situation isK this: several printers (standard) are spooled and connected to the computeroH through a standard terminal server; Regular data processing applicationsK send printouts to the print queues. There is nothing out of the ordinary in H the system startup procedures, and there is no explicit STOP/QUE commandJ anywhere in the system. Yet, from time to time, as a daily event even, andK in different printers, they enter a STOPPED queue status. I would very much L to know if anyone knows what can cause a print que to be stopped (other than an explicit command).(  
 Thank you.  % Please reply to: yulian_m@percite.coma   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:44:38 +0200a: From: Karl Rohwedder <extern.karl.rohwedder@volkswagen.de> Subject: Re: print que problems - Message-ID: <39572606.2B6299E7@volkswagen.de>c  A Are there any messages in OPERATOR.LOG indicating queue problems?(C Are you using TCP/IP or LAT protocol? Are there any e.g. LATSYM.DMPw filest in SYS$SYSTEM?   Yulian Memolis wrote:c > N > Hello, i am running OpenVMS7.1 on an Alpha System, and i have a problem with > print queuesL > that even Digital / Compaq support can't solve, so maybe someone out thereL > has encountered a similar problem (and found a solution). The situation isM > this: several printers (standard) are spooled and connected to the computerdJ > through a standard terminal server; Regular data processing applicationsM > send printouts to the print queues. There is nothing out of the ordinary inuJ > the system startup procedures, and there is no explicit STOP/QUE commandL > anywhere in the system. Yet, from time to time, as a daily event even, andM > in different printers, they enter a STOPPED queue status. I would very muchcN > to know if anyone knows what can cause a print que to be stopped (other than > an explicit command).  >  > Thank you. > ' > Please reply to: yulian_m@percite.comd   -- p  - mit freundlichen Gruessen | with best regardso   Karl Rohwedder               wC iT-Ingenieurteam     | Ellernbruch 11       | D-38112 Braunschweig eA Telefon: 0531/515521 | Telefax: 0531/515531 | Mobil: 0172/5434843 E  E-Mail: rohwedder@decus.decus.de           | iT-IngTeam@t-online.de  +          karl.rohwedder@it-ingenieurteam.dea DATEX-P: 4505018005::ROHWEDDER   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Jun 2000 11:13:10 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)s Subject: Re: print que problemsI0 Message-ID: <8j7ds6$see$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  ` In article <8j70oc$hea$1@news.netvision.net.il>, "Yulian Memolis" <yulian_m@percite.com> writes:M >Hello, i am running OpenVMS7.1 on an Alpha System, and i have a problem withn
 >print queuesiK >that even Digital / Compaq support can't solve, so maybe someone out theredK >has encountered a similar problem (and found a solution). The situation is L >this: several printers (standard) are spooled and connected to the computerI >through a standard terminal server; Regular data processing applicationseL >send printouts to the print queues. There is nothing out of the ordinary inI >the system startup procedures, and there is no explicit STOP/QUE commandnK >anywhere in the system. Yet, from time to time, as a daily event even, andlL >in different printers, they enter a STOPPED queue status. I would very muchM >to know if anyone knows what can cause a print que to be stopped (other than  >an explicit command).  J In case the print symbiont exits unexpectedly you get the same phenomenon.L But you should see a message indicating this event in your OPERATOR.LOG file@ (provided that you enabled the relevant logging on your system).   Regards,    Christoph Gartmanng  H -----------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +------------ http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/english/menue.html -----------+   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:46:06 -0700 5 From: Richard  <maher_rjNOmaSPAM@hotmail.com.invalid>f7 Subject: Re: Remote access programs from Windows to VMSi9 Message-ID: <09c31cb9.f61fc291@usw-ex0110-076.remarq.com>a  ; Another vote for reflections. The virtual desktop is really  useful.t   Regards Richard Maher.     * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:22:48 -0500D* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> Subject: Re[2]: 500au wont boot - Message-ID: <0033000000393584000002L042*@MHS>A  H =0AI have seen this when trying to upgrade from VMS to NT. It will not = read the cd.       <snip>e  H      Most of those present in *this* newsgroup would consider this to b= e 1      a *downgrade*, if not an outright sacrilege.'        WWWebb=   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:42:37 -0300o1 From: "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com> # Subject: RE: Re[2]: 500au wont bootnK Message-ID: <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A3334EC@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>   J > I have seen this when trying to upgrade from VMS to NT. It will not read > thed > cd.  >  > $ UPGRADE - Your off your rocker matey - Darren    F **********************************************************************C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and"J may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.M They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they L are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copying. of this message is prohibited.   Bank of BermudasF **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:36:00 -0500 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>' Subject: Re[2]: Seagates on VAXstationsy- Message-ID: <0033000000383365000002L052*@MHS>i  C =0A> I have three Seagate drives in the VAXstation 4060 I use as my > > workstation, a ST12400N, ST51080N, and ST1480.  I have seven? > Seagates on the VAXstation 3100 next to my desk.  I have a 4GeC > Conner drive on my VLC at home.  I haven't had any problems, yet.t  H I too experienced a very recent rash of Seagate failures with two drive= s on mylH hobbyist systems at home; a ST12400N which is labeled as a RZ28B-E and = a more generic ST51080N.T  H What was irritating about both, and in jest I blame my wife, but both d= rivesnH died the same day after the area near them was vacuumed - the equipment=  wasH powered off.  No advanced noticed, but neither drive would spin up the =	 next day.JH It's as if they seized.  Can't say that this has happened before with S= eagate,pH or any other drive, perhaps simply Murphy and the odds of twenty years = finally  catching up...   Barryn   --  ? Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIOe  A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028e  D      Was the vacuum cleaaner in question *not* a VAX?  Perhaps there-      were compatibility issues involved.  ;-)         WWWebb=   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:36:20 -0300 1 From: "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com>u( Subject: RE: strange problems in SYSBOOTK Message-ID: <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A3334DC@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>s  H You need to set the startup file back to it's original.  From SYSBOOT...  0 SYSBOOT>   SET  /STARTUP  SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP.COM - Darren   > ----------6 > From: 	helbig@astro.rug.nl[SMTP:helbig@astro.rug.nl]  > Reply To: 	helbig@astro.rug.nl& > Sent: 	Sunday, June 25, 2000 4:35 PM > To: 	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ > Subject: 	Re: strange problems in SYSBOOT6 > D > In article <8j5ilv$da0$1@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl > (Phillip Helbig) writes: > G > >I managed to pick up a used ALPHA.  I don't know the SYSTEM (or any 0J > >other) password.  Following the steps described in the FAQ, I run into G > >two problems.  First, SPAWN gives %SYSBOOT-E-SYNTAX, syntax error.  oK > >Second, the @ prints as ".  (I know that " is sometimes in the place of -K > >@ on keyboards, but I tried a couple of normal keyboards---an LK401 and  
 > >an LK201.)i > >rA > >The system is a DEC 3000 M600 175 MHz 192 MB memory, two SCSI  L > >controllers, 2 1 GB disks inside as well as CD-ROM (not that any of this  > >matters here).I > >  > >What can I do?n > >nK > >The console is the graphics monitor at the moment.  Would it make sense rL > >to try out a VT?  Is it SET CONSOLE SERIAL or what is the command to get " > >the console on the serial line? > >(I > >As my news access is slow at the moment, please email the response as .L > >well.  (Anyone who knows the answer knows that I'm a regular contributor K > >to and reader of the group and normally follow Hoff's "ask here, get an r > >answer here" philosophy.0 > >0 > >  > D > OK, I forgot CONTINUE.  For some reason, I now get the @ from the K > keyboard.  I changed the system password.  However, after a reboot, even hE > after a power cycle, it stops at the $ prompt; the process name is i< > STARTUP.  I've never seen this before either.  What to do? >  >     F **********************************************************************C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and J may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.M They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom theyaL are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copyingo of this message is prohibited.   Bank of BermudaGF **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 15:51:40 +0000a- From: ezzaoudi med <m.ezzaoudi@digitem.co.ma>iC Subject: Re: SWCC agent connectivity and client authorisation issueh- Message-ID: <39577C0C.577113DE@digitem.co.ma>e   HiF Yesterday , I just configured a PC client with a DS20 runing OpenVMS = 7.2 ,h TCP/IP V5.02 A and SWCC agent.F A- In first I install the SWCC agent in VMS , configure it (@swcc_con=
 figure) by% adding my PC as client, configure the ' password access and starting the agent.,F Adding the PC hostname and IP address in the hosts of  TCP/IP ( $ucx = set host PCxxx  /addre=3Dx.x.x.x).r  E B- In the Pc I install the client and REBOOT the PC , it works fine !l   By    * "DECHAIZE Thierry (Dir INFRA)" a =E9crit :  
 >         Hi,q >e: >         It's not problem with SWCC, but with TCPIP 5.0A.F >         Call your support (it's a bug) which give you an source of = thisE > "function", compile, link (shareable image) and publish on all yourt > platforms. >l >         Sincerly.o >- > -----Message d'origine-----l$ > De: Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk) > [mailto:Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk]p# > Date: mercredi 21 juin 2000 13:43m > =C0: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com? > Objet: SWCC agent connectivity and client authorisation issuei >N > cc:  > bcc:? > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza- >-8 > SWCC agent connectivity and client authorisation issue > F > I have downloaded SWCC and installed it on W95 PC and an Alpha 8400=  running > VMSeF > 7.2-1 and TCPWare 5.4-3 but when trying to connect from the PC to t= he agent5 > (which is running) the error shown here is flagged;w > F > Jun 20 15:37:08 2000  WARNING: Socket error - gethostbyaddr(): end = of filer > (SP_SOCKET: socketAccept)J >,F > Jun 20 15:37:08 2000  WARNING: Validation failed - Unauthorized cli= entr
 > (UnknownF >      Client, access level: -1); connection refused (SP_TCP: ClientC= onnect)l >hF > Jun 20 15:37:08 2000  WARNING:  - socketWrite(): bad file number (S=	 P_SOCKET:i > socketWrite) >0F > Jun 20 15:37:08 2000  WARNING: Socket error - socketClose(): bad fi=	 le numbert > (SP_SOCKET: socketClose) >rF > I have tried to get the PC hostname correct and the same where I _T= HINK_r > it's  > required, but no joy thus far. >sF > Can anyone offer me some advice? I will supply more information if = I know > what > information is required. >s > Steve Spires > VMS System Manager > BT/Yellow Pagese >o > [Information] -- PostMaster:F > This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may b= eiF > confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message=	  has beenTD > addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce, > distribute or  > use this transmission. >nF > Delivery of this message to any person other than the named address=	 ee is notnF > intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received=  thisvF > transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the messa= ge.p >D > Thank you.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 17:31:17 +0000o- From: ezzaoudi med <m.ezzaoudi@digitem.co.ma>  Subject: TP_server process- Message-ID: <39579365.19126AF1@digitem.co.ma>    Hi  3 I have 2 Alpha in OpenVMS Cluster. It 's work fine.i OpenVMS 7.2-1. TCP/IP V 5.02A.eH I have a PC application that use ODBC for communicating with the alphas.   A conexion with ALPHA_1 is OK.* When I try it with ALPHA_2 , It 's failed.? The cause is the " non existing process TP_SERVER " in ALPHA_2.h This process exist in ALPHA_1.  * How can I creat this process in ALPHA_2 ??   BY.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 14:52:16 -030021 From: "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com>a Subject: RE: TP_server processK Message-ID: <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A3334FA@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>h  I Have a look at SYS$STARTUP:DECDTM$STARTUP.COM.  You may wish to call thiseC command file from SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM, also don't forget to also calla# DECDTM$SHUTDOWN from SYSHUTDWN.COM.r - Darren   > ----------4 > From: 	ezzaoudi med[SMTP:m.ezzaoudi@digitem.co.ma]& > Sent: 	Monday, June 26, 2000 2:31 PM > To: 	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: 	TP_server process  >  > Hi > 5 > I have 2 Alpha in OpenVMS Cluster. It 's work fine.d > OpenVMS 7.2-1. > TCP/IP V 5.02A.eJ > I have a PC application that use ODBC for communicating with the alphas. >   > A conexion with ALPHA_1 is OK., > When I try it with ALPHA_2 , It 's failed.A > The cause is the " non existing process TP_SERVER " in ALPHA_2.n  > This process exist in ALPHA_1. > , > How can I creat this process in ALPHA_2 ?? >  > BY.h >  >  >  >     F **********************************************************************C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and J may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.M They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom theycL are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copying  of this message is prohibited.   Bank of BermudahF **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 06:47:02 GMTn From: klfam@my-deja.com.( Subject: Tuning message queue parameters) Message-ID: <8j6u93$p38$1@nnrp1.deja.com>o  A In some of our application startup files, there are references toeG parameters DVQMAXMSG, DVQBUFQUO, PRQMAXMSG, PRQBUFQUO and other process- quotas.-  H Can anyone point me to a location for the documentation between these or( explanation of these parameters in VMS ?H I'm currently using Alpha OVMS 7.1 and the latest doc. set does not seem4 to list these parameters with anexplanation anymore.       -- K Famu    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 15:43:25 GMTo1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>a, Subject: Re: Tuning message queue parameters2 Message-ID: <395779FD.1B842741@clarityconnect.com>  H These appear to be application specific settings and not VMS ones.  They: may be similar to the VMS ones such as DEFMBXBUFQUO et al.   klfam@my-deja.com wrote: > C > In some of our application startup files, there are references toeI > parameters DVQMAXMSG, DVQBUFQUO, PRQMAXMSG, PRQBUFQUO and other processo	 > quotas.c > J > Can anyone point me to a location for the documentation between these or* > explanation of these parameters in VMS ?J > I'm currently using Alpha OVMS 7.1 and the latest doc. set does not seem6 > to list these parameters with anexplanation anymore. >  > -- > K Famw > ( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.D   -- 2D Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 02:55:13 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?, Message-ID: <3956FE4F.3D0538F7@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:G > Except that inexpensive hardware *is* available to developers, as hasn$ > frequently been pointed out here.   I Not available for in-house software development.  The program is only forlH software developpers who plan to market and sell their software, not forJ corporations writing their own in-house software. And for small companies, this is a big hit.  L Since VMS has far less shrink wrapped software, and since you're more likelyG to have to port unix apps to VMS, you are therefore much more likely to M require development tools and compilers on VMS, even if you're not a software  development house.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 03:39:51 -0400p' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>  Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?( Message-ID: <8j71b2$jbr$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote in message& news:3956FE4F.3D0538F7@videotron.ca... > Bill Todd wrote:I > > Except that inexpensive hardware *is* available to developers, as hasr% > > frequently been pointed out here.- >42 > Not available for in-house software development.  C While the *additional* Compaq programs aimed at further encouraginghH development on VMS aren't available for in-house software development, II didn't even mention them:  everything I mentioned is equally available to. in-house developers.  K To say that it's the cost of the *development* machines that's a problem istK a real stretch, for the reasons I gave.  And since the VMS on those low-enduF development machines is the same VMS used all the way to the top, it'sE inexpensive to develop any VMS applications that potential developersi9 perceive as being marketable (or that are need in house).   G And if you want to say that the relative scarcity of VMS use in low-end G situations is keeping developers from perceiving that market segment as K being worth their while, fine.  But you still have to prove that the *only*nJ barrier to VMS penetration in that market is price if you want price to beL the *first* issue Compaq addresses to try to get the ball rolling:  if otherH problems are likely to keep Alpha penetration small even if the price isD reduced, then it makes much more sense to try to address those otherH problems and only after successfully having done so take the plunge withL aggressive pricing (since if Compaq can't solve those other problems, it may3 well not be in Compaq's interest to reduce prices).s   - bill     The program is only for-J > software developpers who plan to market and sell their software, not forL > corporations writing their own in-house software. And for small companies, > this is a big hit. > G > Since VMS has far less shrink wrapped software, and since you're morem likelyI > to have to port unix apps to VMS, you are therefore much more likely to F > require development tools and compilers on VMS, even if you're not a software > development house.   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:14:35 +0100e$ From: Andy Burns <andy@burns.uk.net> Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?8 Message-ID: <k44elsc2hkqgq09b6vmc40lveetpk54olj@4ax.com>   David J. Dachtera wrote:  > >Indeed. However, let's look at operating system availability: >f >Intel:e >- W/NTh >- W/9x. >- W2K	 >- MS-DOSl >- Linux >- BeOSa >- *BSDc >- UNIXy* >- OpenVMS (coming soon via VAX emulation)  C There are lots of other emulations you {sh|c}ould have included ...-       -- -
 Andy Burns   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 08:20:19 -0500.7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>0 Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?- Message-ID: <39575893.2386BE82@earthlink.net>f   JF Mezei wrote:i >  > Dave Weatherall wrote:F > > I do seem to remember reading statements that implied that SUN hadD > > priced its systems to attract customers. It seems to have been aH > > successful policy. Maybe COMPAQ could come up with a policy designed > > to attract people back.e > N > While Digital was busy pricing its systems to be just a tad cheaper than IBML > in the last 80s, SUN and the others were pricing theirs to be cheaper thanM > Digital's. DEC failed to see its real competition because it was focused on N > IBM. So DEC lost a significant portion of its workstations to SUN and Apollo1 > (I beleive it was integrated into HP, right ?).* > O > Digital refused to ackowledge the PC competition and kept its compiler pricesp1 > way out of line. Guess where developpers went ?c  ; DAMN that BLASTED Affordable ghost! Just keeps haunting us!i  uP > Compaq now thinks that VMS is safe in those 5 market niches it has identified.P > It will again fail to see its real competition coming and will again lose out.M > The problem is that this is the last bit of marketshare VMS has, so when ity( > loses it, it will effectively be dead.  D Take a GOOD LONG LOOK at the OpenVMS market in Metro Chicago and the greater Midwest!  ' > Those still on VMS can count on those,P > 12 years of commitment, but the customers won't spend much on VMS applicatiosn > etc during that time.a  E ..., not unless there is some SERIOUS motivation to develop, as we'veeE discussed in the past. There's no magic here, as Brother Bill will beS quick to point out.d   -- . David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemss" http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:+ http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/c   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 08:27:41 -0500 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>o Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?- Message-ID: <39575A4D.FB4840F3@earthlink.net>m   Bill Todd wrote: > : > Dave Weatherall <djweath@attglobal.net> wrote in message1 > news:DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-dqS0nU3qeznT@localhost...e >  > ...b > H > > But the effect is the same. No workstations, we all agreed, means noE > > new VMS development (actually that really means little or no new)iF > > which would mean VMS leaves a legacy to be picked up by ??. If theE > > hardware is available but people are not prepared to fork out the I > > money, well it's the same thing and VMS has its dwindling high marginAF > > niche, which will be constantly under attack from its competitors. > A > Except that inexpensive hardware *is* available to developers,    @ ...but not to END USERS!!! ...as has also been pointed out here.  A So, they can get development machines without "betting the farm".   Where's the motivation to do so?   > as hasL > frequently been pointed out here.  If you're really strapped for cash, youM > can pick up a licensed older VMS system for a few hundred dollars, and evenON > the current roughly $7K price for a DS10 with 'most everything you need (notK > including clustering, but since clustering is transparent to most low-endlM > applications that shouldn't slow you down) isn't particularly intimidating.cL > I still suspect you can cut that to under $5K if you can forego TCP/IP andM > friends and get what used to be the base VMS license, and since it was justt( > mentioned that you can get gcc for VMS  E ...(VAX only - the Alpha compiler sometimes produces bad code, as hash also been pointed out here)...   [snip]E > The 'subtle' point you're missing is that to all appearances you'reiM > proposing to plant those acorns in the desert, while I'm suggesting that itt4 > would be better to wait until you've irrigated it.  " For "irrigated", read: "marketed"?   > ...3 > A > > It all depends on how you perceive the 'Chicken and the egg'.s > M > No, that's not the situation at all.  Your position is, "Assume the chicken - > [latent demand, in the current discussion].s  G The "chickens" have all but flown the coop! The bets hope we have is toSD hatch/nurture those few eggs we have left - very much an "endangered species" paradigm, no?  H > My counter is, "Show me the chicken first, before you make any furtherL > assertions.  Or, if you can't show me the chicken, here's what you need toM > do [prove that VMS is still viable *anywhere*, in a way that might at leastaN > suggest potential increased demand at lower price] to make your *assumption*6 > of the chicken at least worthy of taking seriously."   That means, we must:   A. Motivate the developers, B. Motivate the market so we can further (A)  / ...which is what we been harping on, all along!e   > >  You see5 > > it one way and David (and myself) see it another.*   *SIGH*   -- * David J. Dachtera* dba DJE Systemss" http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:+ http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/a   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 08:16:58 -0500r7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>e Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?- Message-ID: <395757CA.37630537@earthlink.net>    JF Mezei wrote:o >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:J > > No, Compaq is not near extinction - more than can be said for OpenVMS.G > > The first and foremost thing they can do for themselves, on *EVERY** > > front is learn to MARKET!- > P > Consider how the NASDAQ casino works, and how a single wall street analyst canO > make a company triple in value, of lose 70% of its value in a matter of hours D > or a day, and I would not be so confident about Compaq's survival.  C I guess I would caution against interpreting "not near" as "nowhereVB near", 'cuz that's definitely not what I meant. Then again, I walkB through a lot of sites and see rack and racks of Proliant servers,F frequently sharing a room with some flavor of Alpha since I'm still inG the OpenVMS business. I've only seen ONE(1) "large" Dell server so far,d? in a very small office in a (presumably) up and coming company.t  PE > Compaq has not received much good press in the past (problems beingtM > competitive with Dell, problems selling direct, etc etc, and if problems in5 > marketing surface, u   ???!!!  E I guess none of those influential analysts ever heard of comp.os.vms.lH The way we rip them new orifices over OpenVMS marketing and marketing inE general, it a miracle they're still in business at all, if THAT'S thel case!s  < >and if it becomes known that some of its enterprise systemsP > are not doing too well, it may very well bring the price of Compaq's stocl low: > enough that Compaq will be the target of an acquisition.  H Well, I've maintained for some time that some group (:-)) should make anH effort to acquire OpenVMS away from Compaq. That would REALLY leave themG (Compaq) in a vulnerable spot, though - not someplace they'd be like to - put themselves without a suitable motivation.e  E Are there any OpenVMS enthusiasts here? ...anyone with access to some  SERIOUS venture capital?   -- 0 David J. Dachterac dba DJE Systemss" http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:+ http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/U   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:10:23 -0500t# From: "Mark E. Levy" <mark@fsi.net>0 Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?' Message-ID: <3957644F.DC7CA2A0@fsi.net>k   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > Bill Todd wrote:I > > Except that inexpensive hardware *is* available to developers, as hasl% > > frequently been pointed out here.h > K > Not available for in-house software development.  The program is only fortJ > software developpers who plan to market and sell their software, not forL > corporations writing their own in-house software. And for small companies, > this is a big hit.  < That's not really an issue.  Low-end workstations can be hadE inexpensively. In any case, most small companies I'm familiar with dodG their development and production on the same box.  They proabably wouldTD not invest the money in a development system even if it could be had inexpensively.   N > Since VMS has far less shrink wrapped software, and since you're more likelyI > to have to port unix apps to VMS, you are therefore much more likely toaO > require development tools and compilers on VMS, even if you're not a softwares > development house.  > Shrink-wrapped software? Since when did commodity software fitF everywhere? Computers (and their software) should be custom-fit to theA company, not the other way around. Since so-called shrink-wrapped9G software does not come with source, it's suitable for only the smallestwA companies or specific unique applications (like word processing).o -- tE ---------------------------------------------------------------------  Mark E. Levy, Presidenth FSINet, Inc. 800-827-6085 x202s 847-753-6832 fax www.fsi.net  mark@fsi.netE ---------------------------------------------------------------------e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 11:21:14 -0500 * From: "Mark E. Levy" <levy@sysman-inc.com> Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?- Message-ID: <slepogudjev9@corp.supernews.com>D  2 "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> wrote in message" news:8j46sn$djo$1@pyrite.mv.net... >TJ > I'm sometimes perhaps a tad too literal - it's entirely possible that byD > 'the Linux box of choice' what David really had in mind was indeed	 somethingrJ > like 20% market share (and perhaps a bit of envy from a large portion of the L > other 80%) - which would be damn attractive if the Linux market takes off. >	I > But it's still a tough call for Compaq:  if they reduce Alpha prices tosH > anything like PC prices, then are they really all that much better offL > selling Alphas than PCs?  (Don't answer too quickly:  there are a *lot* ofL > elements involved.)  We could wish that the opportunities to take over theK > world that existed 15 years or so ago were still there (not just for VMS,HL > but for any good hardware or software architecture), but in reality thingsI > are much different today and the fact that Compaq has feet in all camps* just > makes them harder.  H This is, after all, comp.os.vms. The crux of Compaq's problem is this: IF want VMS. VMS requires Alpha. If I'm forced to run Linux, what does itB matter if it's Alpha, IA64, Mips, PPC, or whatever, given similiar price/performace?   K There's a lot of talk about VMS on 8x86. Realistically, this means the 8x86eI processor in it's current hardware platform, the PC. Perhaps VMS could besD made to run on an Intel processor, but it would likely require a newI motherboard design. VMS with only 16 hardware interrupts? And no vectored*J interrupt at that? That's just a small part of the problem. As I said, not likely.   K A new motherboard design would not be a commodity as is the current design, G meaning that the prices would not be in line with commodity motherboardsC prices. In this case, the price advantage of Intel ceases to exist.G  	 Mark Levyn" System Management Associates, Inc. www-sysman-inc.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:33:58 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>1 Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?, Message-ID: <39579404.BA1FB572@videotron.ca>   Bill Todd wrote:M > To say that it's the cost of the *development* machines that's a problem is M > a real stretch, for the reasons I gave.  And since the VMS on those low-end H > development machines is the same VMS used all the way to the top, it'sG > inexpensive to develop any VMS applications that potential developersh; > perceive as being marketable (or that are need in house).e  J I disagree. I have lost contracts because some teenage-gameboy-playing guyL would go to the custommer and tell him he could develop the same applicationK in 2 weeks using a PC costing far less (including the compiler) compared tot$ the serious project I had suggested.  H If it is a big project, I agree that the cost of development machine andH software on VMS is not that big compared to project size. But if it is aK smaller project, it becomes a serious issue because like it or not, VMS hasn competition from billyboxes.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.355 ************************