1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 28 Jun 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 359       Contents: Balanced Viewpoint?   Re: Charon-VAX Hobbyist Question  Re: Charon-VAX Hobbyist Question RE: Compaq advertises  RE: Compaq advertises  Re: Compaq advertizes  RE: Compaq advertizes & Re: Compaq paying for software ports ?& Re: Compaq paying for software ports ? Re: Configuring eXcursion ' Re: Current number of running processes ? Directory Performance (was: good news (for me,  I think) . . .) < Re: Directory Sizes (was: good news (for me,  I think) . . .* Re: Disponibility of OPenVMS on Vax System* Re: Disponibility of OPenVMS on Vax System! Does VMS require a SYSTEM account % RE: Does VMS require a SYSTEM account % Re: Does VMS require a SYSTEM account  Email quotas. Re: Found: PC package to make backup of VMS CD Re: General discussion comment" good news (for me,  I think) . . .' Re: how to forward vax-email to smtp??? ' Re: how to forward vax-email to smtp??? = RE: ideas for accessing common data between multiple clusters  Locate the hotfiles  Re: Locate the hotfiles $ Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?) Re: Needed, New Search Command7 Re: Northern Light vs. Google (and the winner is . . .) 7 re: Northern Light vs. Google (and the winner is . . .) 7 re: Northern Light vs. Google (and the winner is . . .) 7 re: Northern Light vs. Google (and the winner is . . .) 7 RE: Northern Light vs. Google (and the winner is . . .) . Re: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clusters
 re: SMTP Mail  Re: SMTP Mail - followup SMTP Mail - followup Re: SMTP Mail - followup RE: strange problems in SYSBOOT G Sun Porting Clearinghouse for Staroffice, anybody going to port to VMS?  UCX problem??? RE: UCX problem???% Re: VAX based 1032 database to Oracle % Re: VAX based 1032 database to Oracle  Re: VAX on Intel? ; Re: what layered products can i install with these licences A Re: Will OpenVMS/VAX 7.3 Include VMSINSTAL Installation History ?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 16:57:15 +0000 - From: SysAdmin <djesys.nospam@fsi.net.mapson>  Subject: Balanced Viewpoint?. Message-ID: <395A2E6B.CBB90531@fsi.net.mapson>  D Of recent, much has been made of the importance of taking a balancedG view of the computing world and the various options, but mostly focused E on operating systems. I'd like to offer some perspectives from my own D experience. Again, and as always, your mileage may vary considerablyE from mine; so, please do not flame or derogate. These discussions are 7 not meant to be exhaustive. Please review them as such.   
 Multimedia
 ----------  G BeOS is probably better suited to multimedia applications than OpenVMS, C Linux or Windows. MacOS is currently deeply entrenched here, with a = large, loyal user base and a considerable stable of available F applications. BeOS is modestly priced and runs on "commodity" hardware (Intel CPUs only).  
 Multi-Tasking 
 -------------   G Either OpenVMS or Linux are better suited to multitasking than Windows. F Given the multimedia focus of BeOS, it is possible that it, too, is as strong a player as MacOS.    Business Servers ----------------  @ While Windows/NT is deeply entrenched here along with Novell andF commercial UN*X, W/NT is not as strong in multitasking or as stable as= some of the alternatives may be under similar application and E environmental conditions. It has the advantage of a large support and D user base and a large stable of available applications. Hardware andE software are both available at prices which are greatly attractive to G all but the smallest, most cash-strapped businesses. Linux and *BSD are E closing most of those gaps, while OpenVMS languishes, a distant "also H ran" due to high cost to acquire and support both hardware and software,- as well as a dearth of application software.     Business Desktops  -----------------   G Windows/NT, and its successor W2K-Pro, remain the business desktop O.S. F of choice with W/9x running closely along or slightly ahead. Again, weF find the advantages to be a large, familar support and user base and aF large stable of available applications. Hardware and software are bothE available at prices which are greatly attractive to even the smallest D business with the lowest (frequently non-existant) budgets. MacOS isE also sometimes found here where the necessary application software is H available. The various UN*X flavors have yet to make significant inroadsA here. Budget constraints and other pressures may afford them some 1 leverage to garner small portions of this market.    Consumer Desktops  -----------------   F W/9x remains the consumer desktop O.S. of choice. Here also, we find aE large, familiar user base and large stable of available applications. D Hardware and software are both available at prices which are greatlyC attractive to the masses. The various UN*X flavors have yet to make B significant inroads here; however, anti-Microsoft sentiment in theD market may give such alternative platforms an advantage which can beA exploited enough to capture at least another small portion of the B market. Garnering user acceptance remains the greatest challenge.   + So, Why All The "Affordable OpenVMS" Noise? + -------------------------------------------   ; For those markets to which OpenVMS remains well suited, ...    <MUSIC> - "All we are say--ing, is give 'VMS a chance!"  </MUSIC>   ---- In closing, let me reiterate:   E Again, and as always, your mileage may (and quite probably will) vary < considerably from mine; so, please do not flame or derogate.     David J. Dachtera    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2000 08:04:48 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) ) Subject: Re: Charon-VAX Hobbyist Question + Message-ID: <pSml9AqV8ZMe@eisner.decus.org>    In article <Pine.LNX.4.05.10006280252260.10390-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com>, Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com> writes:+ > On Wed, 28 Jun 2000, Zane H. Healy wrote:  > O >> On the down side the tool for turning a CD into a disk image doesn't seem to L >> work on a Mac under Virtual PC, so I've not gotten it set up yet.  Once IO >> get it working under VPC I should be able to try it on an iBook, as I've got N >> one to play with through next weekend :^)  Should be slightly faster than a >> MicroVAX II.  > I > Seems to me that a macintosh, emulating a windows box, emulating a vax, @ > might have so much overhead as to negate any speed increase...  G But surely someone sometime must have written a 1401 emulator for VAX !    ------------------------------   Date: 28 Jun 2000 16:42:38 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) ) Subject: Re: Charon-VAX Hobbyist Question , Message-ID: <8jd9tu$2q7v$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  + In article <pSml9AqV8ZMe@eisner.decus.org>, <  Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes: |>J |> But surely someone sometime must have written a 1401 emulator for VAX !  . If the VAX is running UNIX, yes they have.....   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 10:37:59 -0400 0 From: arturo saavedra <arturo.saavedra@wcom.com> Subject: RE: Compaq advertises4 Message-ID: <001301bfe10e$74e4b2c0$14b324a6@CJ4733A>   Compaq A Winner In Gene Race   By David Einstein   I SILICON VALLEY. 4:20 PM EDT-The race to map the human genome is over, and = the winner is...Compaq. At least from a computing standpoint.     K It took humungous computational power for scientists at Celera Genomics and H the Human Genome Project to slice and dice the 3.1 billion pairs of baseI chemicals in the genetic code. And much of the work was done using Compaq ; (nyse: CPQ) servers linked together to form supercomputers.   H Celera's (nyse: CRA) supercomputing facility in Rockville, Md., containsI some $50 million worth of equipment from Compaq, its chief supplier. That I includes 150 four-way servers, as well as a server boasting 16 processors F and 64 gigabytes of memory that assembled all the genetic information.I Celera officials say the calculation to perform the assembly involved 500 H million trillion base-to-base comparisons--a job that required more than 20,000 supercomputing hours.  G To hold all the data, Celera has about 80 terabytes--that's 80 trillion H bytes--of Compaq-brand storage. And the database is growing by nearly 20D gigabytes per day, which is enough space to hold several full-length Hollywood films.  L Compaq also provided the supercomputers that the Sanger Centre in Cambridge,F England, and the Whitehead Institute at the Massachusetts Institute of, Technology used in the Human Genome Project.  I The high-profile race to unravel the genome has established Houston-based H Compaq as a major player in supercomputing, putting it on the stage withK entrenched competitors IBM (nyse: IBM), Sun Microsystems (nasdaq: SUNW) and  Cray (nasdaq: CRAY).  G It has also helped drive supercomputers into the mainstream of American J consciousness. Until now, the super-fast machines--which can cost millionsI of dollars--have been used mostly for esoteric jobs with little practical I value. They monitor the nuclear stockpile, try to predict the weather and L beat the pants off the world chess champion. Last week, a Cray supercomputerI at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory decided the universe is flat 3 and will expand forever. Nice, but not very useful.   E Now, however, it's becoming clear that supercomputers hold the key to L creating new drugs, curing diseases and eventually letting us modify our own DNA.  L Compaq saw the promise early. In 1998 it inked a deal with Celera, which wasG looking for technology capable of handling one of the biggest computing J projects of all time. "People asked me why we chose Compaq," says MarshallK Peterson, Celera's vice president of infrastructure technology. "The answer G is simple. We took a benchmark and gave it to all the vendors. Only two G could run it. One ran it in 87 hours. Compaq ran it in seven." Peterson - didn't disclose the name of the other vendor.   J The Celera experience could be a major boost for the Alpha processors thatL power Compaq's supercomputers. Compaq picked up the Alpha technology as partJ of its 1998 acquisition of Digital Equipment, but the chips have been hardE to sell in a market where Compaq has had to compete against Sun, IBM, : Hewlett-Packard (nyse: HWP) and even Intel (nasdaq: INTC).  L Compaq isn't the only computer maker panning for gold in the gene pool. LastK month, Sun announced it is providing the computers for an Internet database A of genomic information being compiled by Oakland, Calif., startup L DoubleTwist. And IBM is working on a supercomputer that will boast 1 millionH processors and will be 500 times as powerful as today's fastest systems.J Code-named Blue Gene, the gentle giant will be used initially to determineD how proteins fold--a complex process called proteonics that requires2 measuring the forces that hold molecules together.  G Andrea Califano, who is program director at IBM's Computational Biology J Center, says that although Blue Gene is still five years from fruition, itJ will be state-of-the-art when they finally fire it up. "Blue Gene is goingJ to be leapfrog technology," he says. "It will be five to seven years ahead of everything else."  L Naturally, Compaq disagrees. "Alpha machines will be as strong in proteonicsJ as they have been in genomics," says Jesse Lipcon, Compaq's vice presidentK of Alpha technology. "By the time Blue Gene is introduced, we will have won  all the proteonics deals."  E We'll just have to wait and see, as one race ends and another begins.                  -----Original Message-----6 From: Boyle, Darren [mailto:boyledj@bankofbermuda.com]& Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 8:59 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  Subject: RE: Compaq advertizes    	 Hi Kerry,   E 	I don't have desktop web access, when the article comes out tomorrow  can you post it please.  Thanks,  Darren   > ----------0 > From: 	Main, Kerry[SMTP:Kerry.Main@compaq.com]' > Sent: 	Tuesday, June 27, 2000 9:23 PM  > To: 	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com! > Subject: 	RE: Compaq advertizes  > $ > Also, big ad ran in Boston Globe.. >  > Note - Forbes article:5 > http://www.forbes.com/tool/html/00/Jun/0626/mu7.htm  > $ > <<< Will they ever market VMS? >>> > / > Wait until tomorrows (June 28) announcements.  > L > Folks on this list should like what they hear .. well, ok maybe one or two > folks might not .. >  > :-)  > 
 > Regards, >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant, > Compaq Canada  > Professional Services  > Voice : 613-592-4660 > FAX   : 819-772-7036 > Email : kerry.main@compaq.com  >  >  >  > -----Original Message-----B > From: koehler@eisner.decus.org [mailto:koehler@eisner.decus.org]& > Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 4:12 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > Subject: Compaq advertizes >  >  > E >   So who was it at Compaq that actually understood that they should C >   make something of the Alphas used in the human geneome project?  > * >   Full page add today (Washington Post). > F >   Does this spell the end of stealth marketing (is DEC really gone)? >  >   Will they ever market VMS? >  >     F **********************************************************************C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and J may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.H They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom theyK are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copying  of this message is prohibited.   Bank of Bermuda F **********************************************************************   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2000 12:10:18 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) Subject: RE: Compaq advertises+ Message-ID: <7PtpJTJ0okDa@eisner.decus.org>    Just spotted what Kerry wrote:  1 >> From: 	Main, Kerry[SMTP:Kerry.Main@compaq.com] ( >> Sent: 	Tuesday, June 27, 2000 9:23 PM >> To: 	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com " >> Subject: 	RE: Compaq advertizes >>% >> Also, big ad ran in Boston Globe..  >> >> Note - Forbes article: 6 >> http://www.forbes.com/tool/html/00/Jun/0626/mu7.htm >>% >> <<< Will they ever market VMS? >>>  >>0 >> Wait until tomorrows (June 28) announcements. >>M >> Folks on this list should like what they hear .. well, ok maybe one or two  >> folks might not ..  >>  < 	Let me guess.. .. one of them might call soccer , football?< 	And perchance have eaten kippers on occasion?  Surely eaten 	fish and chips.  	 	Spot on!    				Rob    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 12:30:52 GMT / From: "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net>  Subject: Re: Compaq advertizesF Message-ID: <0em65.12836$kK.339783@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>  I Ok Kerry,  I have been holding my breath since you posted this yesterday,   ' As they say,   "Where's the beef . . ."   6 "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote in messageD news:910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D80528449A@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com...$ > Also, big ad ran in Boston Globe.. >  > Note - Forbes article:5 > http://www.forbes.com/tool/html/00/Jun/0626/mu7.htm  > $ > <<< Will they ever market VMS? >>> > / > Wait until tomorrows (June 28) announcements.  > L > Folks on this list should like what they hear .. well, ok maybe one or two > folks might not .. >  > :-)  > 
 > Regards, >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant, > Compaq Canada  > Professional Services  > Voice : 613-592-4660 > FAX   : 819-772-7036 > Email : kerry.main@compaq.com  >  >  >  > -----Original Message-----B > From: koehler@eisner.decus.org [mailto:koehler@eisner.decus.org]& > Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 4:12 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > Subject: Compaq advertizes >  >  > E >   So who was it at Compaq that actually understood that they should C >   make something of the Alphas used in the human geneome project?e >0* >   Full page add today (Washington Post). >iF >   Does this spell the end of stealth marketing (is DEC really gone)? >E >   Will they ever market VMS? >v   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 09:58:30 -0300 1 From: "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com>e Subject: RE: Compaq advertizesK Message-ID: <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A333536@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>o  	 Hi Kerry,m  E 	I don't have desktop web access, when the article comes out tomorrown can you post it please.t Thanks,V Darren   > ----------0 > From: 	Main, Kerry[SMTP:Kerry.Main@compaq.com]' > Sent: 	Tuesday, June 27, 2000 9:23 PMi > To: 	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com! > Subject: 	RE: Compaq advertizesi > $ > Also, big ad ran in Boston Globe.. >  > Note - Forbes article:5 > http://www.forbes.com/tool/html/00/Jun/0626/mu7.htme > $ > <<< Will they ever market VMS? >>> > 0 > Wait until tomorrows (June 28) announcements.  > L > Folks on this list should like what they hear .. well, ok maybe one or two > folks might not .. >  > :-)R > 
 > Regards, >  > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant, > Compaq Canada. > Professional Servicess > Voice : 613-592-4660 > FAX   : 819-772-7036 > Email : kerry.main@compaq.comL >  >  >  > -----Original Message-----B > From: koehler@eisner.decus.org [mailto:koehler@eisner.decus.org]& > Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 4:12 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms > Subject: Compaq advertizes >  >  > E >   So who was it at Compaq that actually understood that they shouldwC >   make something of the Alphas used in the human geneome project?t > * >   Full page add today (Washington Post). > F >   Does this spell the end of stealth marketing (is DEC really gone)? >  >   Will they ever market VMS? >  >     F **********************************************************************C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and-J may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.M They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they L are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copyinge of this message is prohibited.   Bank of BermudarF **********************************************************************   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2000 09:56:50 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> / Subject: Re: Compaq paying for software ports ?bH Message-ID: <y4aeg6tf0d.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  . koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  L > > I assume that even strings with descriptors get probed on a page-by-page3 > > basis on entry to a normal VMS system service. aH >  No.  Not required.  Any attempt to write will be limitted by the sizeG >  given by the descriptor, and valid access to the page by the calling J >  mode will be verified by memory management hardware if the CPU is doing >  the writing.u  N You don't want kernel-mode ACCVIO crashes, do you? So every argument has to beB checked for access from the _previous_ mode, for security reasons.  K In fact, for short strings the decriptor mechanism might be costlier than aoN 0-terminated string: You first have to check the descriptor for accessibility,E then read it and check the string it points to for accessibility. TheoM difference is that you don't know, a priori, how long the 0-terminated stringhK is; thus, the accessibility check can consume most of the time if performedo inefficiently. l  I A way that is more efficient than the naive implementation might keep thesL address of the last quadword (for Alpha) in the page that the string starts K in in a seperate register. One then has to perform a new accesibility checkoH only when the next address to be check for the string's end is past that	 pointer. n  J >  Page by page probing is done by the CPU prior to starting a DMA from anB >  external device in a properly written device driver (built into- >  standard routines almost all drivers use).e  M But that is cheap because the driver has to look at the PTE anyway to lock itr into memory.   	Jan   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2000 11:37:42 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)/ Subject: Re: Compaq paying for software ports ? + Message-ID: <1iBgqlhODE2E@eisner.decus.org>m   In article <y4aeg6tf0d.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>, Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:0 > koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) writes:  P > You don't want kernel-mode ACCVIO crashes, do you? So every argument has to beD > checked for access from the _previous_ mode, for security reasons. >   C   PROBER/PROBEW (or the equivalent on Alpha) check _previous_ mode oB   access, of course.  Which is what's going on inside those driver   routines.s  =   The performance issue is PROBEx (an extra PROBEx if pass byaE   descriptor) on a page by page basis vs. scanning byte by byte.  And C   should you be scanning those bytes if you didn't PROBER first?  IeH   hope kernel mode code isn't going to scan for a terminator first, thenH   look to see if the previous mode had appropriate access to the addressB   it passed.  Certainly a VMS kernel routine should not assume theC   previous mode had read access just because it found a terminator.w  E   For a small string, not much impact either way, for a multiple page +   string you may start to see a difference.-  H   While not every kernel mode exception translates to a bugcheck, you'reA   right, I forgot the memory management hardware is only checkinge   current mode.D   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2000 14:38:05 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)" Subject: Re: Configuring eXcursion* Message-ID: <3959f1ad$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  p In article <A9E0EA5D91EBD2118BBFAA000400D80447E9EA@NTAS2>, Larry Brand <BRAND@RESEARCH.HINES.MED.VA.GOV> writes:M >I am trying to create a terminal session using eXcursion V7.1.814 on a Win98oM >client to connect (using DECnet) to an Alpha system running OpenVMS V7.1-1H2  >and DECnet phase IV.   L Do you also have a DECnet stack on your Win98 installed/configured/running ?7 Where is it from ? PATHWORKS-32 ? Why not using TCPIP ?v  K >The application command in eXcursion is defined as $create/term/detach (itu* >was one of the predefined applications).   H That's a DECterm. But you need DECwindows(-MOTIF(CDE)) installed on your/ OpenVMS system, to have the DECterm applicationB  M >When I start the application on the client I am prompted for my username and$M >password. I then receive a message stating "The client requesting connectionaK >from 'ALPHA2' was rejected because it is not in the Access Control list." e  G I interpret this as, the username/password pair was accepted by the VMSuG system, the client (DECterm) was started, but the X11 connection to the|) X11 server (eXcursion) was then rejected.o  F >6/27/00  10:08:44 AM  X Server        Information  eXcursion V7.1.814  >(Windows95/98) logging enabled.> >6/27/00  10:10:00 AM  X Application Startup   Information  OKE >6/27/00  10:10:01 AM  X Server        Error        AUDIT: Tue Jun 270$ >10:10:01 2000: -1568217 eXcursion: J >6/27/00  10:10:01 AM  X Server        Error        client 1 rejected from >ALPHA2bI >6/27/00  10:10:01 AM  X Server        Error        The client requestingIF >connection from 'ALPHA2' was rejected because it is not in the Access >Control list.L >6/27/00  10:10:02 AM  X Protocol      Error        Reply sent to Client #1,( >Request=ChangeWindowAttributes, Error= > L >I've tried this using both the SYSTEM account, as well as, a non-privileged/ >account. The results were the same either way.w > L >Does anyone know how I can add this client and/or username to the ACL? What" >ACL is the message referring to?   H The X11 security configuration is part of the X11 server. So, initially,E switch it off. Then after all works, switch it on again and allow theeG DECnet-Node-Name/Username pair (as opposed to X11 over TCPIP - there iseE no username available with TCPIP - you have to use an asterisk as thetG username with TCPIP) to access the X11 server (1. access to use the X11sA server - 2. access to change the X11 security on the X11 server -o3 you first only need 1. but you might need 2. later)o   HIHe -- e< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888i< FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netF <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 09:12:05 +0900i2 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com>0 Subject: Re: Current number of running processes+ Message-ID: <3959C165.39F8DF0B@digital.com>   $ From a program (BASIC, in this case)  4 CALL LIB$MOVC3(2%, SCH$GW_PROCCNT BY VALUE, PROCCNT)- Print 'Process count=' + NUM1$(PROCCNT + 1%) i  / You could then stash the value in a DCL symbol.r   ~Mikei   Tomer Cohen wrote: >  > Hi, L > Is there any easy way of knowing the number of processes currently runningI > in the system other than putting all the show system information into ae' > temporary file and counting the rows?t > 	 > Thanks,f > --
 > Tomer Cohen  > Tomer@FlashMail.comv   -- fE ---------------------------------------------------------------------kE Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.o? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*kF Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------s   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2000 12:37:40 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) H Subject: Directory Performance (was: good news (for me,  I think) . . .)+ Message-ID: <jsPHn7b$FtQA@eisner.decus.org>h  x In article <58n65.6038$AM4.353365@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net> writes:  D > On our VAX VMS 6.X systems, when we put 3 or 4 thousand files in a > directory, we would haveN > all sorts of problems.   Now,  on hearing that VMS 7.2 fixed these problems, > I have heard aD > proposal to allow the application to put over  60,000 files in one$ > directory.   I think this is nuts,> > but I have not had the opportunity to test the improvements.  H Do not change two variables at the same time during the same experiment.  @ Port the current algorithm to Alpha first, and _then_ experiment with other directory sizes.c  ; Or do it in the opposite order, but with that approach yourt: experiments with different directory sizes will be done at a slower speed.i   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Jun 2000 15:18:14 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)E Subject: Re: Directory Sizes (was: good news (for me,  I think) . . . 6 Message-ID: <8jd4vm$86v$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  x In article <58n65.6038$AM4.353365@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net> writes:C :I am intimately aware of the performance problems related to largen :directories on pre VMS7.2. L :I am also aware of the improvements to large directory performance with VMS :7.2,m :,, :But,  HOW MUCH    improvement can I expect?  F   I don't know that we qualified the performance improvements.  It is D   significantly faster, and does not have the usual "knee" when the )   directory file hits 128 blocks in size.   C :On our VAX VMS 6.X systems, when we put 3 or 4 thousand files in a@3 :directory, we would have all sorts of problems.   5  B   Ayup, when the directory exceeds 128 blocks, it falls out of theB   cache.  The directory I/O also gets progressively worse...  BothA   were fixed in OpenVMS V7.2 and later, as was the older limit on-G   the total number of disk clusters permitted on the volume -- smaller dG   cluster factors are now permitted.  Specifically, a one block factor  ,   is permitted on volumes of 137GB and less.  3 :Now, on hearing that VMS 7.2 fixed these problems,w> :I have heard a proposal to allow the application to put over 7 :60,000 files in one directory.   I think this is nuts,2= :but I have not had the opportunity to test the improvements.h :h :Can anyone comment on this?  A   I think it is nuts, too.  I'd partition the files into multiplen@   directories based on some sort of attribute: date, usage, etc.  =   Given you are going from 4K to 60K, I would assume that the.A   environment will expand further beyond 60K files, and that you  D   may/will have a variety of concerns including the directory size, C   directory access (and update) times, and even available physical :A   disk size and disk access times.  You also have concerns aroundtC   tracking and maintaining the links to that many files, and a needu@   for tools to recover orphans and the usual sorts of cruft thatD   can drift in should one of the applications create and then later,$   um, misplace a few of these files.  7 :Thanks for all your help in the past (and the future).*  F   Please pick a relevent subject for the posting, in order to attract A   the attention of the folks that might know the answer.  Thanks!s   	--t  7   ps: congrads on your impending port to OpenVMS Alpha.   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Jun 2000 13:29:22 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)3 Subject: Re: Disponibility of OPenVMS on Vax System 6 Message-ID: <8jcuji$5ig$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  S In article <39595BF7.E9192C0D@mediaone.net>, Ed Wilts <ewilts@mediaone.net> writes:  :Hoff Hoffman wrote: ..- :>     http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/vax/s :eA :You do have to wonder about that URL though...  it's nice hidingr6 :VAX-specific information in an alphaserver directory.  F   This is a case of seeing a little more of how our internal corporateG   organizational structures are configured -- based on how our website sF   is structured -- than most folks are really interested in knowing.  G   Knowing the internal structures can also sometimes make it easier to  F   find what information you seek at the website.  (nb: I would prefer G   that this not be the case, but this organization does obviously make sI   for easier group-level control over the web content.)  In the specific oH   case cited and within the past couple of years, the VAX, AlphaServer, H   and AlphaStation product groups have all been aligned together rather H   more closely than was ever the case under most (all?) of the previous    organizational charts.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2000 11:43:51 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)3 Subject: Re: Disponibility of OPenVMS on Vax Systema+ Message-ID: <HDMxCxlGnfnO@eisner.decus.org>o  h In article <B2a65.436$h8.45582@news-west.usenetserver.com>, "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> writes:  D > Does anyone recall when DEC finally stopped support on TOPS-10 andI > TOPS-20?  And how long that was after the DEC 10 and 20 were officiallybB > discontinued?  How did it compare to their announced intentions?  F   I recall what they announced for TOPS-20, but I don't know what they   actualy did.  F   I do recall a realse of TOPS-10 years after it was retired because a'   big customer wanted Ethernet support.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 12:59:46 -0400u- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>b* Subject: Does VMS require a SYSTEM account. Message-ID: <slkbod98jev84@corp.supernews.com>  C I am on the phone with a support person from the OpenVMS Management ? Station support group and she is telling me that the Managementi@ Station software *HAS* to run under the SYSTEM account. I am 99%F confident that VMS does not require a SYSTEM account. I would considerC any product that *has* to run from the SYSTEM account to be broken.rD Does anyone know (I am still on the phone so it is difficult to lookD up right now) if running VMS without a SYSTEM account is a supported configuration.   -- Peter Weaver   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 14:25:44 -0300 1 From: "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com>-. Subject: RE: Does VMS require a SYSTEM accountK Message-ID: <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A333559@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>   K I personally would agree with you (just my opinion though), I know of a lot D of sites that rename their SYSTEM account for security requirements. - Darren   > ----------2 > From: 	Peter Weaver[SMTP:peter.weaver@stelco.ca]) > Sent: 	Wednesday, June 28, 2000 1:59 PM  > To: 	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- > Subject: 	Does VMS require a SYSTEM account  > E > I am on the phone with a support person from the OpenVMS ManagementtA > Station support group and she is telling me that the Management-B > Station software *HAS* to run under the SYSTEM account. I am 99%H > confident that VMS does not require a SYSTEM account. I would considerE > any product that *has* to run from the SYSTEM account to be broken. F > Does anyone know (I am still on the phone so it is difficult to lookF > up right now) if running VMS without a SYSTEM account is a supported > configuration. >  > -- > Peter Weaver >  >  >     F **********************************************************************C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and J may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.M They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they L are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copyings of this message is prohibited.   Bank of Bermuda F **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 17:39:32 +0000s- From: SysAdmin <djesys.nospam@fsi.net.mapson>*. Subject: Re: Does VMS require a SYSTEM account. Message-ID: <395A3854.610988F0@fsi.net.mapson>   "Boyle, Darren" wrote: > M > I personally would agree with you (just my opinion though), I know of a lotjF > of sites that rename their SYSTEM account for security requirements.  F At the other end of the spectrum, some sites clone the SYSTEM account.1 [1,4] could be any number of users on such sites.r  D ...and yes, those other users all have FULL privileges! (frequently)  C 007 is not the only one who lives dangerously! (Cue: Marilu Henner)    David J. Dachterad   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 12:19:49 GMT % From: hx_101@hotmail.com (Horse Nuts)b Subject: Email quotasd, Message-ID: <3959ed46.411311624@news.dal.ca>  @ ho do I go about turning off email quotas for myself, on 7.1....     Thanks   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 17:02:45 +0200c& From: Bob Marcan <bob.marcan@aster.si>7 Subject: Re: Found: PC package to make backup of VMS CDf( Message-ID: <395A1395.DA527ECD@aster.si>  ! Or linux (or any unix) solution: e  	 #!/bin/shiA dd if=/dev/cdrom bs=2048 | cdrecord -v -eject -pad fs=30m speed=4a dev=0,6,0 -l       sms@antinode.org wrote:s > E > From: Eberhard Heuser-Hofmann <vaxinf@chclu.chemie.uni-konstanz.de> 4 > > The same (and free) solution exists for vms, see/ > > ftp://v36.chemie.uni-konstanz.de/diskreader  > G >    I normally use MOUNT /FOREIGN and COPY to dump a CD-ROM to a file. F > There's an annoying error message at the end, but it always seems toC > work.  The CDRECORD package includes READCD to do the same thing.tD > (Before I found "readcd" for the SunOS 5 system at work, we used aC > VAXsta 3100 with the DCL method for all our CD-ROM copying needs, J > including bootable Sun Solaris distributions.  I gather that "dd" can be* > made to do it on a Unix system as well.) > H >    Does anyone know (that's _know_) of any problems using any of these
 > methods? > J > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > E >    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)iE >    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work).I >    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work)-; >    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)w   --  A -----------------------------------------------------------------u@  Bob Marcan                         email:   bob.marcan@aster.si@  Aster                                tel:    +386 (61) 1894-329@  Nade Ovcakove 1                      fax:    +386 (61) 1894-201@  1000 Ljubljana, Slovenia                    http://www.aster.siA -----------------------------------------------------------------g   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2000 10:18:52 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> ' Subject: Re: General discussion commenttH Message-ID: <y44s6etdzn.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  4 mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:  L > I've asked this before and had no good answer - what the heck is RMS doing > that eats so much time?   M Is this through the C RTL? TIn that case, you have one additional memory copy N if the C RTL is using RMS for its record I/O. You really want to have only oneN layer of software assembling individual records/write operations into a buffer that will be written to disk.-   	Jan   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 13:32:49 GMTt/ From: "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net>c+ Subject: good news (for me,  I think) . . .oF Message-ID: <58n65.6038$AM4.353365@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>  J After several false starts, and millions of dollars spent, we have finally decided that it is better toG migrate our VAX applications to Alpha VMS than to rewrite them on Unix.m  G Well, at least we have decided that we need to move the applications toC Alpha VMS for nowiL because we don't know how long it will take us to move to unix, and we don't
 want to be stuck on VAX indefinitely.  E SOooooo,  I am probably going to be asking a lot of VAX to Alpha typer
 questions.   Here is a starter question:m  B I am intimately aware of the performance problems related to large directories on pre VMS7.2.K I am also aware of the improvements to large directory performance with VMSu 7.2,    + But,  HOW MUCH    improvement can I expect?n  B On our VAX VMS 6.X systems, when we put 3 or 4 thousand files in a directory, we would haveL all sorts of problems.   Now,  on hearing that VMS 7.2 fixed these problems, I have heard aB proposal to allow the application to put over  60,000 files in one" directory.   I think this is nuts,< but I have not had the opportunity to test the improvements.   Can anyone comment on this?i  6 Thanks for all your help in the past (and the future).   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 09:21:49 GMT + From: Shraga_Broyer@bmc.com (Shraga Broyer)00 Subject: Re: how to forward vax-email to smtp???- Message-ID: <3959c2d4.134705396@news.bmc.com>r  C Probably something is missing on my machine because when I tried tol4 send an e-mail using the address format below I got:  b2 %MAIL-E-ERRACTRNS, error activating transport SMTP? %LIB-E-ACTIMAGE, error activating image <path>SMTP_MAILSHR.EXE;e  6 Can someone please tell me what do I need to install?  TIAe >hM >What is the correct syntax to forward mail to an internet email adress usinge	 >tcpware?t >s >  >mail> set forw M >_Address: smtp%"user@domain.com"  does not work I think you have to use 3 orA >4 quotes but I'm not sure.o >Any help would be appreciated.i >i >Wim >  >    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2000 14:47:09 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)0 Subject: Re: how to forward vax-email to smtp???* Message-ID: <3959f3cd$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  [ In article <3959c2d4.134705396@news.bmc.com>, Shraga_Broyer@bmc.com (Shraga Broyer) writes:tD >Probably something is missing on my machine because when I tried to5 >send an e-mail using the address format below I got:  > 3 >%MAIL-E-ERRACTRNS, error activating transport SMTP @ >%LIB-E-ACTIMAGE, error activating image <path>SMTP_MAILSHR.EXE; >.7 >Can someone please tell me what do I need to install?    M This is obvious, a TCPIP stack (like UCX V4, TCPIP V5, TCPware, Multinet, ...82 and maybe a better SMTP MTA, too: MADGOAT's MX V5)   -- t< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888-< FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netF <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 08:46:57 GMTo( From: Alan <campbela_691021@my-deja.com>F Subject: RE: ideas for accessing common data between multiple clusters) Message-ID: <8jce1t$sil$1@nnrp1.deja.com>r  E Our 'hardware guys' have scheduled downtime agreed with the users forn0 hardware maintenance and upgrades every 6 weeks.  D Our in-house warehouse system is fairly old and doesnt fully utiliseF TCP/IP so all the applications for a specific warehouse have to run onE a specific node.  The system can be switched to a different node, but G this involves re-creating logicals etc on the other node.  Or maybe our C hardware guys arnt clever enough to set up the system in such a way%? that there is zero downtime (I dont think they like the idea of-8 upgrading hardware/os without shutting down the system).  < I think that that changing the warehouse system so that eachE application that was running didnt care which node it was on would ben> the ideal solution, but I doubt we would be allowed to do that# (time/money/political constraints).Q  = This still leaves us with the origional problem.  Any ideas ?4   Alan ---l
 Alan Campbell" alanc@mullen.demon.co.uk  
 In article? <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284494@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com>,s.   "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> wrote: > Alan,f >oF > Given that Customers with OpenVMS clusters and applications based on TCPIP F > DNS (or DECnet) can do scheduled system maintenance (hw/os upgrades, tuningA > reboots, patch upgrades etc) with ZERO application availability 
 impact (noF > failover required), I guess my first thought would be "why are these2 > clusters being brought down in the first place?" >i? > Are there application specific issues here that require this?  >i
 > Regards, >o > Kerry Main > Senior Consultant, > Compaq Canadad > Professional Servicesw > Voice : 613-592-4660 > FAX   : 819-772-7036 > Email : kerry.main@compaq.comn >0    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.f   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 16:54:09 GMT  From: twong@livingstonintl.com Subject: Locate the hotfiles) Message-ID: <8jdaj6$i4g$1@nnrp1.deja.com>n  E One of the disk has much higher i/o rate in comparing with others.  Ie> desire to enable some global buffer counts on those hot files.  9 Is there any way to locate the files with high i/o rate ?h   Thanks for inputs in advance   Terence.    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 13:47:37 -0400t. From: "Kenneth Randell" <kenr@datametrics.com>  Subject: Re: Locate the hotfiles+ Message-ID: <8jddj0$lte$1@bob.news.rcn.net>u   Hello --  K Short of having software that can really track this (such as CA Polycenter,lG Datametrics Viewpoint, etc.), you could do any or all of the following:,  K 1) show device/files will tell you the open files on a volume, and at least. give a starting point.K 2) set file/statistics on any of the files from #1 above, but you might noti6 want to do that if there are lot's of potential files.G 3) You could write your own hotfiles monitor (I'm not aware of anythingpG on the VMS freeware, but you would likely need VMS source code listingsi to do it from scratchI  + VMS 7.3 should have some help in this area.   I Finally, a good knowledge of what your applications are and what they areI doing always helps!o   Ken Randell   J twong@livingstonintl.com wrote in message <8jdaj6$i4g$1@nnrp1.deja.com>...F >One of the disk has much higher i/o rate in comparing with others.  I? >desire to enable some global buffer counts on those hot files.r >4: >Is there any way to locate the files with high i/o rate ? >u >Thanks for inputs in advancet >u	 >Terence.i >h > ' >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/t >Before you buy.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:13:31 +0010 % From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.auo- Subject: Re: Mitnick (was Re: Fun VMS Facts?)l5 Message-ID: <01JR5DFFG0MA0015BQ@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>c   Jan Vorbrueggen replied:  ( >paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au writes: >fP >> What I have encountered is that both .EXE and .COM files need W:RE protection >> to be run over the network. >sN >When you run them locally, privileged code (DCL or $IMGSTA) actually open theN >file, and can get at the contents although they only have E access. If you'reJ >executing over the network, the FAL listener at the other end does a veryF >normal user-mode access and thus requires R to read the file for you.  O Yes, without the actual details that you have supplied, I assume4d that it was   associated with FAL.  O Although our users are generally trustworthy, we do not like them to have this HO access to .COM files.  We eventually decided that we would copy to their local 8O node before they could get access to our beta programs and .COMs, and set up a e- system of logicals that would redefine paths.    Regards, Paddy   Paddy O'Brien, Transmission Development,v
 TransGrid, PO Box A1000, Sydney South,  NSW 2000, Australiai   Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050& Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  M Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people,u; but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 08:56:20 +0900n2 From: Mike Rechtman <michael.rechtman@digital.com>' Subject: Re: Needed, New Search Command + Message-ID: <3959BDB4.780C22CD@digital.com>i  E Writing an 'entirely generic' version of what you want could be a biti tricky.l For example:   JUNK.COM contains: ...h $ SET DEF [.''DIR_SYMBOL'] $ @ANOTHER_COM ...uF where there are different versions of ANOTHER.COM, depending upon whatI you want to do (e.g. you have a directory of C sources, another of BASIC s2 sources and you want to treat them differently...) Or for a different problem:- ...- $ @DO_'ACTION'.COM ...i  @ If you're _sure_ that any "@" sign is followed by a _full_ file D specification (disk,directory,file and perhaps even explicit ".COM")/ you could probably do a fairly simple procedureoF (search for string, if not found search for "$ @" into temporary file,E read temporary file, parsing out filenames, and reiterate till done.)a   ~Mike2   Boyle, Darren wrote: >  > Hi,r > J >         Just thought I'd ask before I re-invent the wheel.  I need a newI > search command (COM or EXE) that will search down a tree of files.  I'maK > running V7.1 and want a procedure that can search a file for a string ANDoI > for an "@" sign, upon finding an "@" I then want the search to continueT% > through this file and any below it.c > 
 > Example. > / > $  SEARCH   MY_COMMAND_FILE.COM   THIS_STRINGt > 9 > Where MY_COMMAND_FILE makes call to other command files- >  > $  show time > $  @ next_jobe > $  @and_another_job  > " > AND_ANOTHER_JOB.COM  contains... > $  show time > $  this_string  ==  $statusT > M > I hope that makes sense, probably not, but, what I want the search to do ishM > look through MY_COMMAND_FILE for THIS_STRING, upon not finding it it startssE > to search the other command files being called and eventually findsh- > THIS_STRING in the file AND_ANOTHER_JOB.COMd > M > If anyone knows of a procedure to do this It would be very much appreciatedr > before I have to write it.	 > Thanks,s > DarrenN > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------D > ------------------------------------------------------------------= > Darren James Boyle,              Telephone : (441) 299-6425u > Lead Analyst Programmer,< > ISD VMS Technical Services,  Fax          : (441) 299-6502 > Bank of BermudaYL > Par-la-Ville Branch,                EMail      : BoyleDJ@BankofBermuda.com > Hamilton Bermuda.sN > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------D > ------------------------------------------------------------------   -- -E ---------------------------------------------------------------------WE Usual disclaimer: All opinions are mine alone, perhaps not even that.c? Mike Rechtman                            *rechtman@tzora.co.il*iF Kibbutz Tzor'a.                          Voice (home): 972-2-9908337  B   "20% of a job takes 80% of the time, the rest takes another 80%"E ---------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2000 10:11:16 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>m@ Subject: Re: Northern Light vs. Google (and the winner is . . .)H Message-ID: <y47lbatecb.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  K Regarding configuration and updates, Kerry, maybe you should read the press*L releases of a certain big company you know well about the software their CSSF department implemented to run that 300+ Alpha farm for a certain largeE national lab. Seems like just the thing Google should be using to me.    	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:53:10 +0100 / From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>e@ Subject: re: Northern Light vs. Google (and the winner is . . .)7 Message-ID: <009EC47F.E52C0218.22@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>    > D > >>>> - 10,000 servers - how are OS upgrades and patches done ?<<<<I > >>> Since the servers are mirrored, presumably by rolling upgrades. <<<- > G > Now there's a good career for a few people .. start at server#1, when@H > finished on server #10,000 start on server#1. Of course, this does notN > consider FW updates, or any of the other issues associated with revision andJ > configuration management ...like driver versions, patches ect especially* > since different server vendors are used.  E Seems to me that this is a good case for the "if it ain't broke don'teC fix it" school of system management. In other words, never upgrade,sC just throw out the originally installed software with the hardware!n  D The system under consideration is a special case. It's legitimate toI regard the 10,000 servers as appliances with embedded software, and apply2I the rule that if they are working well enough, you leave them alone (withEC the proviso that you have a **good** firewall to rule out malicious 0 interference with the server farm from outside).  C I'd also suggest that provided you have enough redundancy, you can uD simply initiate a batch of say 100 upgrades (1%) using a script fileO to 100 guaranteed identical servers (you wouldn't buy batches of less than 100,DJ would you?!) then come back tomorrow, have a quick look to check that one L of them is working, and run another script to scan the installation logs forH anything resembling an error. This could be no more than half an hour ofH human time, two to three working days per week. (You could cut that backJ a further five-fold if you were sure you could live with 5% of the serversI knocked out by a failed upgrade). Developing such batch-upgrade scriptingyH would of course take added time, but not a lot (by comparison with, say,? the time taken to replace hardware at about 300 servers/month).n  D And provided you stick to hardware on the operating-system-supportedJ list you can probably maintain the same single system configuration acrossA a number of hardware generations. After all, what are they using? E IDE disk drive, Ethernet interface, graphics card in VGA-text consolef mode only (if at all).  L the only nightmare would be a high-level "emergent" bug that cannot manifestI in testing, only as a property of full-sized network complexity. However,-I even here being a free search engine works for you: nobody can sue you if8N you had to shut down for a day and roll everything back to an earlier version.C Put up a "sorry" page blaming a bulldozer operator or something ...oD (It's a very different story at the big telcos, where such bugs haveB emerged, and paralyzed all telephony over large geographic areas!)  H It's altogether a lot easier than looking after 5000 NT workstations in F 500 branch offices with largely remote management. Something that someG organisations do in fact accomplish, and even stay in business as well!-    M > >>> > - 10,000 servers - but does not want expensive proprietary servers? I-M > suspect NorthernLight and AltaVista may use less than 50-100 each. Would berL > interesting math question when one considers expensive computer room space
 > A/C etc ..<6 > C > >>Legitimate question, but those 1U boxes stack pretty tightly.<<i > K > Ok, even if the servers were $1k each (2 drives + 128Mb memory(?) + 100MbaK > NIC+ additional racking charges), we are still talking about $10M for theoM > servers alone and this does not count the network switches and routers. OutLL > of EACH cabinet, there would be 80 cables for NC connections. Of course, aL > good portion of the network would have to be redundant as well, so the keyJ > routers would be duplicated. 10,000 servers means 10,000 100Mb ports, soK > this would mean approx 150x 64 port or 75x128 port switches - Can someonecK > comment on how much these cost ? Are these costs factored into the 10,0005 > server costs?s  : Cost of the switches would depend on the requirements for I bandwidth. You can get 24-port fast switches for well under $50/port, andtN if you could localise most of your data traffic in clusters of 24 so that onlyN 100Mbps-worth actually wanted to leave the local switch, then you'd need only E 250-ish ports worth of fancy switch/router upstream thereof. In fact, J these days 24x100 with a gigabit backbone port isn't a lot dearer (but the% 250-gigabit central switch would be!)a  I A more radical approach would be not to have an expensive central networkfN bottleneck at all, and do distributed routing on the Linux servers themselves.F (That would be quite a research project, if it's not already been done: by the Linux-supercomputer-network folks ... anyone know?)  D I wonder what sort of % discount you get if you can promise to order2 ca. 300 servers per month for many years to come?    > Again - to each his own. e > F Indeed.  This is an academically interesting discussion, but it's veryC much a special case that you couldn't begin to generalise to a moretI conventional datacentre where there is a large amount of read-write data,sD where data integrity is many orders of magnitude more important, and$ where data preservation is critical.   	Yours,0
 		Nigel Arnot - 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                   u  7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 12:42:27 +0100a/ From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>i@ Subject: re: Northern Light vs. Google (and the winner is . . .)7 Message-ID: <009EC486.C7B2CB7A.50@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>n   > ? > 	Even though David J. thinks Bill needs a vacation, I believeI> > 	he is spot on here.  As Bill points out, this is replicated? > 	hither and yon, backups are not necessary.. automated server @ > 	setup is a must and as mentioned in the Intel eBusiness piece< > 	they "Googal-ize" the servers (envisioning plugging it in@ > 	and answering a few questions in automated scripts, i.e. IP).   My thoughts too.   > ; > 	My initial criticisms/cynicisms were along the lines of A< > 	employee head count (7000 drives, with great MTBF someone0 > 	is changing out several drives a week, etc.)   E I'd imagine that nean-time-to-fix is under an hour, meaning a single rJ employee could easily do the job. I'd imagine that they simply module-swapI and note the fix on a label on the box, if it fails twice (or maybe threeLE times) retire the whole unit as "flaky" rather than fussing about it. G They can probably negotiate a reliability guarantee with their supplier K so if the latest model turns out to be generically flaky, it's the vendor'sT problem ...a   >       power consumption B > 	(Environmentally very harmful.  If nothing else , could rile up= > 	a few tree huggers and point out how many resources Google = > 	is wasting... ironically this could be one of the greatesti< > 	criticisms).  Not to be overlooked is the whole manner ofA > 	efficiency which points a finger at the power consumption too.S  H This is perhaps true with current technology, but peering a little into $ the future this argument may invert.  E Imagine that the next-generation server-farm box is using a TransmetauH Crusoe processor or similar. That means it dynamically adjusts its clockD speed to match the workload and minimize the power drain. The power E consumption of the server farm will therefore tend to scale with the dG level of activity. This gets even better if spin-down of inactive disk vB drives can also be incorporated. If they have multiple nodes with D identical disk data mirrored on each for redundancy and peak loads, H then at quiet times letting one out of N take all the strain might work K well. Or one of the non-rotating storage technologies may replace the disk O. drive making the idle power become negligible.  E This sort of dynamic power reduction is less likely ever to appear inhJ "mainframe" systems. (Though it's not impossible: anyone at Compaq want to9 consider it for the next-generation Alphas and Galaxies?)   F Anyway, 10000 standard PCs is what percentage of the world's installedI PCs? Most of which are sitting in offices running Windoze, doing not much @ very inefficiently, when they are doing anything at all that is,J because the operating system of choice only allows one user per processor.C Any tree-huggers out there, Bill Gates is the enemy! Or perhaps the4? writers of "screen savers" which today cause monitors to remainmH active (>200W) continuously, rather than going into blank-screen (<10W) E standby mode. (I was surprised when I discovered how much power a 17" : monitor takes, compared to the PC it's sitting on top of).     	Yours, 
 		Nigel Arnotn- 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                   )  7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."e   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2000 12:46:59 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)@ Subject: re: Northern Light vs. Google (and the winner is . . .)+ Message-ID: <GGnph8Yw4phY@eisner.decus.org>1  i In article <009EC486.C7B2CB7A.50@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>, Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> writes:j   >>  < >> 	My initial criticisms/cynicisms were along the lines of = >> 	employee head count (7000 drives, with great MTBF someoneu1 >> 	is changing out several drives a week, etc.) $ > G > I'd imagine that nean-time-to-fix is under an hour, meaning a single iL > employee could easily do the job. I'd imagine that they simply module-swapK > and note the fix on a label on the box, if it fails twice (or maybe threeiG > times) retire the whole unit as "flaky" rather than fussing about it. I > They can probably negotiate a reliability guarantee with their supplier0M > so if the latest model turns out to be generically flaky, it's the vendor'sL
 > problem ...l >   ; 	Maybe to expand a bit... the time to identify and fix 4000rE 	servers with problems that crop up on occasion would require severall 	folks.r   >>       power consumptionC >> 	(Environmentally very harmful.  If nothing else , could rile upy> >> 	a few tree huggers and point out how many resources Google> >> 	is wasting... ironically this could be one of the greatest= >> 	criticisms).  Not to be overlooked is the whole manner oftB >> 	efficiency which points a finger at the power consumption too. > J > This is perhaps true with current technology, but peering a little into & > the future this argument may invert. > G > Imagine that the next-generation server-farm box is using a TransmetaaJ > Crusoe processor or similar. That means it dynamically adjusts its clockF > speed to match the workload and minimize the power drain. The power G > consumption of the server farm will therefore tend to scale with the tI > level of activity. This gets even better if spin-down of inactive disk  D > drives can also be incorporated. If they have multiple nodes with F > identical disk data mirrored on each for redundancy and peak loads, J > then at quiet times letting one out of N take all the strain might work M > well. Or one of the non-rotating storage technologies may replace the disk o0 > drive making the idle power become negligible. >   = 	But the difficulty here is that none of them are idle enoughg9 	to even spin down the disk drives.  Couple that with thef< 	fact they have to spin up the disk drives and you see where? 	their edge of a very fast search suddenly goes in the oppositeo= 	direction and they become one of the slower search services.p   > H > Anyway, 10000 standard PCs is what percentage of the world's installedK > PCs? Most of which are sitting in offices running Windoze, doing not much B > very inefficiently, when they are doing anything at all that is,L > because the operating system of choice only allows one user per processor.E > Any tree-huggers out there, Bill Gates is the enemy! Or perhaps theyA > writers of "screen savers" which today cause monitors to remainlJ > active (>200W) continuously, rather than going into blank-screen (<10W) G > standby mode. (I was surprised when I discovered how much power a 17"t< > monitor takes, compared to the PC it's sitting on top of). >   B 	Since they aren't in standby mode and mostly active, the question9 	then is how much power are they consuming?  Yesterday's 3: 	New York Times pointed out (speculated) that maybe Celera= 	is in such a hurry because they are burning $100,000 a month 8 	in electric costs.  Tongue in cheek speculation to make 	for a nice article.  A 	But what if Google is only 5% efficient?  Sure, they are getting6; 	the job done and done well.. but they are wasting valuable>< 	resources and only a matter of time before the tree huggers
 	catch on.   				Robm   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Jun 2000 16:58:25 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)@ Subject: RE: Northern Light vs. Google (and the winner is . . .), Message-ID: <8jdarh$3uk@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  x In article <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284497@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com>, "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com> writes:I >>>> Again, rolling upgrade should work just as well as it does for VMS -C$ >if/when they decide they need it.<< > M >Except that with OpenVMS cluster common system disks, upgrades are only doneaK >once and when the other roots are rebooted, every system is now at the newsG >version. Big difference when you have to plan 10,000 individual systemd1 >upgrades - even if using a streamlined approach.t  H Not really.  You can use something like imagecast (in theory anyway, it J has yet to work right on our NT machines :-( ) to broadcast the upgrade inG one fell swoop to as many machines as you want.  Just be sure you don'tnL screw up, because then you really will have to touch each of those machines.K But they could do it in batches of 1000 at a time, or something like that.  H Presumably there is some sort of heirarchical organization, so that theyG can take out one group of machines, modify them, put them back on line, & take out another group, and so forth.   I In the Alpha arena the high performance computing guys have CMU, which is K a tool that supposedly allows you to control vast numbers of Alpha linux or,J Tru64 boxes in parallel - I've never seen it in action though, since they D only provide it with their sales (and won't sell it otherwise). See:  B   http://www.compaq.com/solutions/customsystems/hps/linux-cmu.html   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 17:25:19 +0100-B From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>7 Subject: Re: OpenVMS clusters vs other systems clustersa) Message-ID: <395A26EF.6A4F1D3@uk.sun.com>(   jlsue wrote:  G > On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 01:01:26 -0400, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>4 > wrote: > N > >VMS has no lock on high availability any more - well, it never did, but nowO > >its competition includes 'standard' Unix and even Windows environments.  The-M > >eagerness with which customers are accepting such solutions makes it clear-O > >that VMS's advantages, real though they may be, are not decisive compared to-J > >other considerations (in other words, the competition offers *adequate*9 > >availability plus many attractions that VMS does not).  > >e >mG > To be completely fair, many of the reasons that VMS lost what hold it9E > did have on the market was because of all the marketing lies (snaken3 > oil) that the Unix segment was putting out there.- >-  3 Ahh to old conspiracy theory raises its head again.-  6 OpenVMS didn't lose its position in the market because9 of lies by UNIX competitors. It lost its position becausej; it cost too much at the low end, because DEC totally missed 6 the move from people making apps to people buying apps7 and most crucially it lost its position because DEC andK8 laterly Compaq though that you didn't need to market the OS and its capabilities.  3 And by market I don't just mean demand creation andd2 brand awareness creation through advertising which7 rather quaintly some people in this group semm to thinki will solve the OpenVMS problem.-  5 I mean sales programs, loan equipment for developers,04 special deals for developer systems. Co marketing of7 the OS and selected applications into that applications 7 vendors customer base. Cooperative deals to rationalisea6 software licensing charges (parity with NT application6 licensing for example). Marketing programs to selected9 vertical markets backed by things like the willingness toh3 pay for ports of apps ot in some cases the purchasee8 of the ISV itself that are key to sucess in that market.  ; This is all marketing and virtually none of it is addressede> by the rather sad excercise so beloved of this group of trying0 to spot OpenVMS references in Compaq literature.  8 Given the lack of any of the above in Digitals marketing, of OpenVMS and market development of OpenVMS2 one has to conclude that Digital/Compaq handed the& market in a plate to the UNIX vendors.  3 Just for a moment just consider packaging, all parta0 of marketing. How out of touch do you heve to be2 to try to market an OS in this day and age without8 including an IP stack and all the accompanying utilities5 with it. What sort of message do you think this sendst3 to people building internet/intranet based systems.*   Regardso Andrew Harrisonu Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 10:04:26 -0300 (EST)n From: becherini@vortex.ufrgs.br  Subject: re: SMTP Mail, Message-ID: <00062810042612@vortex.ufrgs.br>  : Received:	by vortex.ufrgs.br (V5.0A-1, OpenVMS V7.2 Alpha)+ From:		Fabio Becherini <becherini@ufrgs.br>e Reply-to:	<becherini@ufrgs.br>< Comments:	@vortex.ufrgs.br, vortex(46.451)::, psi%........::2 References:	BR, TCHE, UFRGS, CPD network, Cia-INFO- Organization:	Cia-INFO /DRS /CPD-UFRGS /UFRGSiO _______________________________________________________________________________f  / . From: Raji Arulambalam <rajia@ENVBOP.GOVT.NZ>s . Subject: SMTP Mail' . Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 12:02:28 +1200- . To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comc .  . Hi . E . I've just installed OVMS 7.2 on a DEC 2000/300 AXP with TCPIP v 5.0l . N . I am trying to get SMTP mail working, but when I try to use VMS mail and tryK . to use this format   smtp%"rajia@envbop.govt.nz"  the mail program hangs.e  . Is there some thing missing.?? . 8 . Used to work in v 6.1-2 fine on this machine with UCX. .   . Any help would be appreciated. .  . TIAr . / . ---------------------------------------------  .   Raji Arulambalam       h .   Systems Administrator       # .   Bay of Plenty REGIONAL Council r .   P O Box 364 Whakatane. .   NEW ZEALAND   5 .   Phone: 0800 ENV BOP (0800 368 267) +64 7 921 3390o6 .   Fax:    0800 ENV FAX (0800 368 329) +64 7 921 3393 .   http://envbop.govt.nza5 . The Rules Have Changed...Get Paid to Surf the Web! e2 . http://www.alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=LJG413 . . --------------------------------------------     	have you tried to use onlyo   		rajia@envbop.govt.nz  	 	regards,s  N  _____________________________________________________________________________O |                                                                             |aO | Fabio Becherini                   System & Network Manager, Webmaster UFRGS |-O | CPD-UFRGS                         Centro de Processamento de Dados da UFRGS | O |                                   Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Sul |hO |                                                   Divisao de Rede e Suporte |eO |                                          (55)(51) 316-5041 / 331-1215 (fax) |vO | Rua Ramiro Barcelos, 2574  -  Santa Cecilia  -  Porto Alegre - RS -  Brasil | O |_____________________________________________________________________________| O |                                                                             |bO | Cia-INFO (c) Ophicin@ das Informacoes                   Coordenacao Central | O |_____________________________________________________________________________|eO |                                                                             |2O | INTERnet:  fabio.becherini@ufrgs.br              DECnet:  vortex::becherini |sO |_____________________________________________________________________________|    ------------------------------   Date: 28 Jun 2000 06:35:39 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)u! Subject: Re: SMTP Mail - followupi' Message-ID: <8jc6br$5tl$1@joe.rice.edu>-  . Raji Arulambalam (rajia@envbop.govt.nz) wrote: : Hi  ; : Installed OVMS 7.2 on a DEC 2000/300 AXP with TCPIP v 5.0r  M : Further to my earlier request for help, I have found that the smtp receivertN : on this machine is not responding to connect requests from other machines orI : from VMS Mail. ( telnet vaxmail /port=25 works from another DEC machinea: : running UCX 4.0, but hangs when coming from another OS).   : Is there a fix.??r   : TIAr  F Upgrade to TCPIP V5.0A, unless you already have. The following command# gives the version of VMS and TCPIP:a     $ tcpip show version  9   DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Alpha Version V5.0A 8   on a AlphaServer 4100 5/466 4MB running OpenVMS V7.2-1  G The 5.0A release notes mention problems with corruption of SMTP controlhB files. If your system is a member of a cluster, this could be your problem:  =     "o  SMTP does not recognize mail to the cluster alias (IPh;         address or DNS name) as local. V4.x versions of the,         product do."    4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 07:16:42 -0400h2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com> Subject: SMTP Mail - followup17 Message-ID: <200006280716_MC2-AA5F-7369@compuserve.com>a  J         If you are really running TCPIP V5.0, the fix may be to upgrade t= o-J V5.0A.  V5.0 is the first version of a port of the Digital Unix TCP/IP co= de% and is seriously broken in many ways!I    ( Message text written by Raji Arulambalam: >Installed OVMS 7.2 on a DEC 2000/300 AXP with TCPIP v 5.0  J Further to my earlier request for help, I have found that the smtp receiv= erJ on this machine is not responding to connect requests from other machines=   orJ from VMS Mail. ( telnet vaxmail /port=3D25 works from another DEC machine=  8 running UCX 4.0, but hangs when coming from another OS).   Is there a fix.??e <c   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Jun 2000 13:11:41 GMT8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)! Subject: Re: SMTP Mail - followupg6 Message-ID: <8jctid$53o$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  ( In article <8jc6br$5tl$1@joe.rice.edu>, + leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) writes:a ..5 >Upgrade to TCPIP V5.0A, unless you already have. ...t ..  D To avoid potential confusion, be aware that the POLYCENTER Software A Installation (PCSI) utility calls this version of TCP/IP Servicesc V5.0-10.  e.g.  !     $  product show product TCPIP @     ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------9     PRODUCT                             KIT TYPE    STATE @     ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------=     DEC AXPVMS TCPIP V5.0-10            Full LP     Installed @     ----------------------------------- ----------- ------------   -- cK     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USA F          (hammond@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 17:57:59 GMTw3 From: cornelius@eisner.decus.org (George Cornelius)s( Subject: RE: strange problems in SYSBOOT+ Message-ID: <6Brgftw$ohCo@eisner.decus.org>T   > SETe >  >   /STARTUP > C >        Names the site-independent startup command procedure to beuB >        associated with a parameter file for subsequent bootstrap >        operations. >  >        Formate > ! >          SET/STARTUP  file-specm >t  I Turns out they both work.  SYSMAN does not accept an equal sign, however, K so I suspect that someone was just being nice to us fumble-fingered typistsc: in allowing an optional equal sign in the older utilities.  J [The perennial DCL syntax dilemma: should it be a qualifier or should    ]J [it be a command line parameter? Looks as if even Digital couldn't always]J [decide.  Another example of fence straddling on the issue:              ]J [                                                                        ]J [   $ SHOW ENTRY 5                                                       ]J [                                                                        ]J [and                                                                     ]J [                                                                        ]J [   $ DELETE/ENTRY=9                                                     ] [o   George   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:39:18 -0400 - From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> P Subject: Sun Porting Clearinghouse for Staroffice, anybody going to port to VMS?. Message-ID: <slk71d3pjev66@corp.supernews.com>  F If you check out http://soldc.sun.com/staroffice/#porting you will seeC that Sun is looking for people who want to port StarOffice to otherh@ platforms. I know several people in the past have said they wereB interested in getting StarOffice ported to VMS, is anyone going toE attempt it? I do not have the C skills to even think about it myself, ! but maybe someone out there does.v   -- Peter Weaver   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 14:30:23 GMTm From: teroconnor@my-deja.com Subject: UCX problem??? ) Message-ID: <8jd257$aop$1@nnrp1.deja.com>b  F I have two VMS nodes running UCX v4.2. NODEA cannot be seen in NetworkC Neighbourhood for client PCs running only TCPIP. PCs with TCPIP andh NETBUEI can see both nodes.a    Here is the UCX setup for NODEA:F Service       Port  Proto    Process          Address            State  A BIND            53  TCP,UDP  UCX$BIND         0.0.0.0     Enabled A BOOTP         67  UDP      UCX$BOOTP        0.0.0.0      DisabledyG FTP               21  TCP      UCX$FTPD         0.0.0.0         EnableduH LPD               515  TCP      UCX$LPD          0.0.0.0         EnabledE MILNET        1503  TCP      MILNET           0.0.0.0         Enableds> REXEC          512  TCP      UCX$REXECD   0.0.0.0      EnabledD RSH             514  TCP      UCX$RSHD         0.0.0.0       Enabled? SMP$LIVE     8012  TCP      SMP$LIVE      0.0.0.0       Enabled = SMP$TEST    8013  TCP      SMP$TEST    0.0.0.0        EnabledeH TELNET         23  TCP      not defined      0.0.0.0             EnabledF TFTP             69  UDP      UCX$TFTP         0.0.0.0         Enabled  
 UCX>show namen BIND Resolver Parameters Local domain: abc.comp.ied System State:     Started, Enabled  Transport: UDP   Domain:    abc.comp.ie   Retry:     4   Timeout:   4   Servers:   ABCTHREE, ABCTWOr Processd State:     Enabled
 Transport:	   Domain:T   Retry:
   Timeout:
   Servers:  7 On NODEB (which can be seen from Network Neighbourhood)hC Service      Port  Proto    Process          Address          Statef  < BIND           53  TCP,UDP  UCX$BIND    0.0.0.0      EnabledD FTP             21  TCP      UCX$FTPD        0.0.0.0        DisabledA RLOGIN      513  TCP      not defined      0.0.0.0        Enabledg@ RSH            514  TCP      UCX$RSHD     0.0.0.0        Enabled@ SMTP          25  TCP      UCX$SMTP     0.0.0.0         DisabledA TELNET       23  TCP      not defined      0.0.0.0        EnabledsA TFTP            69  UDP      UCX$TFTP     0.0.0.0        Disabledn UCX>     BIND Resolver Parameters Local domain: lanabc  Systemw   State:     Started, Enabledn   Transport: UDP   Domain:    lanabct   Retry:     4   Timeout:   4   Servers:   nodeb  Process   State:     Enabled   Transport:	   Domain:    Retry:
   Timeout:
   Servers: UCX>show config name BIND Resolver Configurationt   Transport:  UDPe   Domain:     lanabc   Retry:         4   Timeout:       4   Servers:    10.10.202.8m  1 Can any advise what I should be looking for here?h   Regards, TERt      & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.g   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 13:32:33 -0400r# From: John Vottero <John@MVPSI.com>a Subject: RE: UCX problem???sD Message-ID: <C15945A9D9EFCF11BA8B08002BBF1CCC0CD73B@berry.mvpsi.com>  G I think you should be looking at your Pathworks configuration, not UCX.d   > -----Original Message-----> > From: teroconnor@my-deja.com [mailto:teroconnor@my-deja.com]) > Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 10:30 AMc > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms > Subject: UCX problem???n >  > H > I have two VMS nodes running UCX v4.2. NODEA cannot be seen in NetworkE > Neighbourhood for client PCs running only TCPIP. PCs with TCPIP andc > NETBUEI can see both nodes.f > " > Here is the UCX setup for NODEA:H > Service       Port  Proto    Process          Address            State > C > BIND            53  TCP,UDP  UCX$BIND         0.0.0.0     Enabled C > BOOTP         67  UDP      UCX$BOOTP        0.0.0.0      Disableda@ > FTP               21  TCP      UCX$FTPD         0.0.0.0        >   Enabledx@ > LPD               515  TCP      UCX$LPD          0.0.0.0       >    EnabledG > MILNET        1503  TCP      MILNET           0.0.0.0         Enabled @ > REXEC          512  TCP      UCX$REXECD   0.0.0.0      EnabledF > RSH             514  TCP      UCX$RSHD         0.0.0.0       EnabledA > SMP$LIVE     8012  TCP      SMP$LIVE      0.0.0.0       Enabledr? > SMP$TEST    8013  TCP      SMP$TEST    0.0.0.0        Enabled @ > TELNET         23  TCP      not defined      0.0.0.0           >    EnabledH > TFTP             69  UDP      UCX$TFTP         0.0.0.0         Enabled >  > UCX>show name  > BIND Resolver Parameters > Local domain: abc.comp.ie  > System > State:     Started, Enabled  > Transport: UDP >   Domain:    abc.comp.ie >   Retry:     4 >   Timeout:   4 >   Servers:   ABCTHREE, ABCTWOm	 > Processh > State:     Enabled > Transport: >   Domain:f
 >   Retry: >   Timeout: >   Servers: > 9 > On NODEB (which can be seen from Network Neighbourhood)kE > Service      Port  Proto    Process          Address          Statea > > > BIND           53  TCP,UDP  UCX$BIND    0.0.0.0      EnabledF > FTP             21  TCP      UCX$FTPD        0.0.0.0        DisabledC > RLOGIN      513  TCP      not defined      0.0.0.0        Enabled B > RSH            514  TCP      UCX$RSHD     0.0.0.0        EnabledB > SMTP          25  TCP      UCX$SMTP     0.0.0.0         DisabledC > TELNET       23  TCP      not defined      0.0.0.0        EnabledaC > TFTP            69  UDP      UCX$TFTP     0.0.0.0        Disabled- > UCX> >  >  > BIND Resolver Parameters > Local domain: lanabc	 >  Systemw >   State:     Started, Enablede >   Transport: UDP >   Domain:    lanabcc >   Retry:     4 >   Timeout:   4 >   Servers:   nodeb
 >  Process >   State:     Enabled >   Transport: >   Domain:0
 >   Retry: >   Timeout: >   Servers: > UCX>show config name > BIND Resolver Configurationb >   Transport:  UDP, >   Domain:     lanabc >   Retry:         4 >   Timeout:       4 >   Servers:    10.10.202.8. > 3 > Can any advise what I should be looking for here?u > 
 > Regards, > TERl >  >  > ( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:51:43 -0400a* From: "linux" <linuxmtl@-NOSPAM-yahoo.com>. Subject: Re: VAX based 1032 database to Oracle+ Message-ID: <8jd6jv$2m0$1@pr0n.openface.ca>t   Just for the record.  5 s1032 is now owned by Computer Corporation of American (http://www.cca-int.com) .  I I have a client that need to migrate from their old Vaxes (VAX 6420 & VAX H 7510) to the new DS20 servers and CCA wants them to pay over 200,000.00$G just to transfer the licenses to the Alpha systems....a real 'rip-off'.h  L Since thoses systems are already running Oracle, it would be a great save of. money if we could migrate the s1032 to Oracle.   Regards,  J "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com> a crit dans le message news:, 200006272303_MC2-AA54-BBEB@compuserve.com...%         VAX is a family of computers.n  I         VMS is an operating system that runs on both the VAX architecturenF and the Alpha architecture.  VAX is CISC while Alpha is RISC.  The VAXG architecture is pretty much obsolete.  The Alpha architecure offers theeK fastest iron that money will buy!  VMS is designed for high availabilty anda reliability.  C         1032 is a database.  It was once offered by CompuServe DatacJ Technologies but I believe it has since been sold; I don't recall to whom.  H         Oracle is a database.  It runs on VAX/VMS, Alpha/VMS,  Sun/Unix,9 Windows, and quite likely, platforms I've never heard of.e  J         The client wants to go to a modern architecture; e.g. Alpha, and a6 mainstream data base, which Oracle is and 1032 is not.  C         If I may say so, you, and your company, seem singularly illsH prepared to offer this customer what he wants;  you don't even speak his	 language.f  B         I've no idea what a "System Monitoring database" might be.    4 Message text written by INTERNET:mschaus@HOTMAIL.COMD >My company is currently working on a proposal for a project dealingE with VAX systems.  First some simple questions.  Is VAX the hardware,hB operating system, or what?  And how does VMS fit in?  What type of@ databases (Oracle, Access, SQL, etc.) can be run on the systems?  G Specifically, the client wants to "reprogram the current VAX based 1032wG database into an Oracle based platform."  Does anyone have any ideas as @ to what the exact meaning of this is?  Is 1032 a hardware model,F database type, or maybe a proprietary name?  1032 is used as a "SystemG Monitoring (SYSMON) database," but this has little meaning to me, as it % could be a product or a made-up name..  & Any help would be greatly appreciated. <s   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Jun 2000 16:44:36 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman). Subject: Re: VAX based 1032 database to Oracle6 Message-ID: <8jda1k$a7s$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  X In article <8jd6jv$2m0$1@pr0n.openface.ca>, "linux" <linuxmtl@-NOSPAM-yahoo.com> writes:J :I have a client that need to migrate from their old Vaxes (VAX 6420 & VAXI :7510) to the new DS20 servers and CCA wants them to pay over 200,000.00$ H :just to transfer the licenses to the Alpha systems....a real 'rip-off'.  F   Check the costs of the port, and you may well find that your effortsG   to move (quickly and in one jump) from 1032 on OpenVMS VAX to Oracle .D   (Rdb or classic) on OpenVMS Alpha will burn through that $200,000 H   licensing figure pretty quickly.  And if the port attempt should fail,I   the costs can be far higher -- depending on the value of the database, tD   a serious failure could obviously put the company out of business.  H   As a recommendation, once you get the current application and databaseG   environment over onto OpenVMS Alpha, you can then evaluate what wouldeH   be required to move from the 1032 database over to the Oracle (Rdb or H   classic) database, either incrementally (often the prefered approach) F   or as another full "port".  This effort will have to be examined in I   comparision with the on-going 1032 support costs, once the environment _   is running on OpenVMS Alpha.  F   Of course, if this is a small-scale and simple database environment,G   a direct "big bang" port might make more sense and might be as likelyGF   to suceed as an incremental port.  (Without details around the scaleD   and complexity of the current database environment and the use of I   1032-specific features, any specific discussions around the trade-offs RB   and the costs of the port can obviously only be rather generic.)  I   I'm familiar with Oracle Rdb and quite familiar with OpenVMS, and have  I   experience porting large applications based on Oracle Rdb (embedded SQL_E   in C) from OpenVMS VAX over to a mixed OpenVMS Cluster environment. M   (I'm presently waiting for an embedded-SQL application build to finish. :-) F   As such, I'd look very carefully at the costs involved, and (from a F   technical perspective) I would also look to handle this port in two G   stages: first from OpenVMS VAX to OpenVMS Alpha (or mixed), and then  "   a port from 1032 over to Oracle.  M :Since thoses systems are already running Oracle, it would be a great save of_/ :money if we could migrate the s1032 to Oracle.-  I   Yes, it probably would, though the costs might only be recoverable overcK   a long(er) interval.  Though as was inferred elseposting, your particular L   questions and your particular phrasing makes it appear that you will have I   some time to get up to speed on OpenVMS VAX and specifically on a port  F   over to OpenVMS Alpha and over to Oracle.  This is also obviously a L   non-trivial additional cost to the effort.  (No offense is intended here.)  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:47:33 -0600l1 From: Glen Martin <GLENMARK@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu>a Subject: Re: VAX on Intel?4 Message-ID: <3959E5D5.59D934DD@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu>   hobbsb@my-deja.com wrote:0  /F > I suggest an Alpha PCI card that is capable of running VMS or Linux.  F Great idea, both as a potential product and as a CS project. Certainly> not for a production system, but wonderful for development andH educational purposes. I might even be able to convince my superiors hereE at UT to allow me to buy such a thing, and they are VERY reluctant to G buy Alphas right now. No new VMS purchases, with pressure from above to F phase out VMS over the next few years. Lots of Intel boxes (from Dell,H not the Q) running NT and occassionally Linux. New Unix boxes tend to beF Suns (our main webservers are in the process of going from Tru64 boxesG to Solaris as part of a new Student Portal project). Such an initiativeeH as this might allow Alpha to keep a foot in the door here. Heck, let theD Linux boys in academia hammer on it for a while and get the hardware@ kinks worked out, and THEN worry about OpenVMS and Tru64 console: support. Save some work for the Q's Engineering's staff...  C Such an idea is not without precedant. You can buy x86 co-processorhA cards for Macs and PPC co-processor cards for Intel boxes (recentsE Slashdot article on the latter). It would be interesting to see Alphao enter the fray...s  eF > Price the card to cover the manufacturing costs plus some profit.  IA > would like to think that the list price would less that $1,000,nH > hopefully closer to $500.  Package the card with a CD of the interface > programs.a  C I have to agree with Zane that the cost would probably top out overuA $1000 due to the processor cost, unless they use this as a way oflE clearing out inventory of current-generation processors when the next  generation comes out...t   Glen,(A A VMS bigot who has been swamped with NT/Exchange admin duties of. late... F (Whatever idiot within the bowels of Redmond who decided that it was aH good idea to have EVERYBODY'S mailbox in a SINGLE DATABASE should, IMHO,4 have evil things done to him. But I'm not bitter...)   ------------------------------    Date: 28 Jun 2000 14:51:43 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)D Subject: Re: what layered products can i install with these licences* Message-ID: <3959f4df$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  p In article <3958ecda.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>, martin@radiogaga.harz.de (Martin Vorlaender) writes:7 >David J. Dachtera (djesys.nospam@earthlink.net) wrote:-F >: NAS-150 (I believe) gets you DECnet end-node (IV or V), DECwindows,) >: MOTIF and UCX (but, I could be wrong).j >:D >IIRC, it's all of UCX except for the NFS server - something like an@ >UCX client, but supporting Telnet and FTP server functionality.  H NAS150 includes the UCX-CLIENT license, which does not cover NFS-Server,F BIND-Server, TFTP-Server, ... but covers TELNET-Server and FTP-Server.E At least with UCX, still haven't checked TCPIP, but I don't think, itb  changed in this particular area.   -- l< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888a< FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netF <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------   Date: 28 Jun 2000 13:21:04 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)J Subject: Re: Will OpenVMS/VAX 7.3 Include VMSINSTAL Installation History ?6 Message-ID: <8jcu40$5ig$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>0 Keywords: vax,vms,vmsinstal,installation,history  S In article <8jbdsg$cbp$1@joe.rice.edu>, leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) writes: > :In a posting to the vmsnet.sysmgt newsgroup on March 2, 1998,5 :message-ID 6df3qj$ubf@usenet.pa.dec.com, Hoff wrote:1 :0A :  "We have also extended OpenVMS VAX VMSINSTAL to keep a historyPA :   of product installations in a log, such as is already done on  :   OpenVMS Alpha."j :6B :This enhancement didn't make it into VMS 7.2. Will it be in 7.3 ?  ?   I checked in the necessary changes to create and maintain the ?   VMSINSTAL.HISTORY file into VMSINSTAL.COM a couple of months  C   back.  I expect to see this change first ship out in the OpenVMS     VAX 7.3 SDK/EFT1 kits.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.359 ************************