1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 07 May 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 254       Contents: Re: boot tape can i make one?  Cool Stuff in stock  Re: Cool Stuff in stock  Re: Cool Stuff in stock D Dumb mail programmers executing code under the aegis of dumber users4 Re: Field width in sys$fao control string directives- Re: How get the internal system temperature ? - Re: How get the internal system temperature ? # Kind of portable Alpha, VMS capable ' Re: Kind of portable Alpha, VMS capable  RE: Marketing opportunity 2 OT: A Great Rant On the Latest Wintel Cartel Virus Persona system services  RE: Persona system services  RE: Persona system services  Re: Persona system services  Re: the latest billybox virus  RE: the latest billybox virus  RE: the latest billybox virus  Re: the latest billybox virus  Re: the latest billybox virus  Re: the latest billybox virus  Re: the latest billybox virus  Re: the latest billybox virus  Re: the latest billybox virus  RE: the latest billybox virus  Re: the latest billybox virus  Re: the latest billybox virus  Re: the latest billybox virus  Re: the latest billybox virus $ Used Decserver 90m: need priv access( Re: Used Decserver 90m: need priv access( Re: Used Decserver 90m: need priv access( Re: Used Decserver 90m: need priv access# Re: wich list: DIRECTORY limitation   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 21:31:58 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> & Subject: Re: boot tape can i make one?) Message-ID: <3914732E.48FA46F9@gtech.com>    Paul Sture wrote: H > That used to be my first job after installing VMS. Remember to put theQ > standalone backup in [SYSE] on a system disk, as [SYSF] used to get used (still 7 > does?) as a temporary boot root by some VMS upgrades.   4 It is can be wise to also install it on a data-disk.  3 One of the occasions, where you need S/A is to boot 4 to restore the system disk after a disk replacement.? And the a stabackit on the system disk is not so usefull !  :-)    Arne   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 16:14:36 -0400+ From: "David Turner" <d_b_turner@yahoo.com>  Subject: Cool Stuff in stock- Message-ID: <sh8v6ciqqil8@corp.supernews.com>    Here are some goodies   # Alpha Personal Workstation 500a (u) ! 500Mhz CPU + Latest SRM and ABios 	 2mb Cache 
 Floppy 1.44mb  512mb memory Qlogic SCSI Ultra Wide PCI* IC-KZPAA-AA SCSI-2 ctr for tape and CD-ROM ELSA Gloria Synergy 8mb PCI  10/100 Ethernet (21140)  Sound Daughter card (ESS)  2 x 4.5Gb 7200rpm disk drives  Keyboard and 3-Button Mouse  NEW VMS License   # USD3200  or USD2200 without license        -- David Turner Island Computers US Corporation  2700 Gregory Street  Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622  Fax:912 201 0096 sales@islandco.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 23:24:15 -0700 # From: Mark Tarka <markZERO@mcn.net>   Subject: Re: Cool Stuff in stock" Message-ID: <39150BF8.F9C@mcn.net>   David Turner wrote:  >  > Here are some goodies  > % > Alpha Personal Workstation 500a (u) # > 500Mhz CPU + Latest SRM and ABios  > 2mb Cache  > Floppy 1.44mb  > 512mb memory > Qlogic SCSI Ultra Wide PCI, > IC-KZPAA-AA SCSI-2 ctr for tape and CD-ROM > ELSA Gloria Synergy 8mb PCI  > 10/100 Ethernet (21140)  > Sound Daughter card (ESS)  > 2 x 4.5Gb 7200rpm disk drives  > Keyboard and 3-Button Mouse  > NEW VMS License  > % > USD3200  or USD2200 without license   + What is this stuff?  Can an idiot get it up  and running?  Documentation?  / Hey...I just got a job, and get paid at the end , of the month.  Let's talk dollars.  How much. for the box (shipping and handling, included)?    )   Mark  mark(0@mcn.net)  Dele the parens.   
 Wayne, Wayne,    you're such a pain. 
 When are you,    gonna get a brain?   ------------------------------  " Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 05:44:52 GMT0 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <shannon@world.std.com>  Subject: Re: Cool Stuff in stock& Message-ID: <Fu6Cru.6sv@world.std.com>  0 "Mark Tarka" <markZERO@mcn.net> wrote in message news:39150BF8.F9C@mcn.net... > David Turner wrote:  > >  > > Here are some goodies  > > ' > > Alpha Personal Workstation 500a (u) % > > 500Mhz CPU + Latest SRM and ABios 
 > > 2mb Cache  > > Floppy 1.44mb  > > 512mb memory > > Qlogic SCSI Ultra Wide PCI. > > IC-KZPAA-AA SCSI-2 ctr for tape and CD-ROM > > ELSA Gloria Synergy 8mb PCI  > > 10/100 Ethernet (21140)  > > Sound Daughter card (ESS) ! > > 2 x 4.5Gb 7200rpm disk drives  > > Keyboard and 3-Button Mouse  > > NEW VMS License  > > ' > > USD3200  or USD2200 without license  > - > What is this stuff?  Can an idiot get it up  > and running?  I Well, I managed to get a Personal Workstation 433a up and running with no  problem whatsoever.   K The price looks fairly good. List price for 512MB config with two disks and F a graphics card was, IIRC, pretty close to $10K. $1K for a new OpenVMSK license is (sad but true) a pretty good deal. Of course, if you plan to use L the system for noncommercial purposes, you could go with an OpenVMS HobbyistK License (free, contact the DFWCUG for more information) or Tru64 Technology  Enthusiast License ($99).   
 terry shannon    ------------------------------  " Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 02:22:47 GMT9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) M Subject: Dumb mail programmers executing code under the aegis of dumber users + Message-ID: <6sD$$0CvwEXc@eisner.decus.org>   D In article <8f0g5l$u48$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, tsm@palindrome.org writes:+ > In article <3912C83C.52EC016F@gtech.com>, B >   Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote: > G >> This virus/worm uses two features of Windows and Microsoft Mail that H >> no other OS and email program on another OS to my best knowledge has:  ? >> - the email-program run code when you click on an attachment  >> containing code > H > Incorrect. For Outlook to run the attachment, you have to click yes toE > __TWO__ dialog boxes. First what to do with the file (save or run). H > Second, if you select run, a dialog warning you that it may be a virusF > is displayed. A user who was a victim of the virus would have to say > yes to both of these.  > H > Other mailers on other OS'es have this feature also. The CDE Mailer onH > Unix will detect if somebody sends you a shell script and offer to runG > it for you. This is the __EXACT__ same thing. VMS lucked out, because G > its CDE port didn't come with the mailer (it just uses DECwindows VMS = > mail), but if it did it would have the same "problem" also.   . I am not sure why you assume VMS "lucked out".< My presumption would be that this characteristing would have: been something to motivate the VMS folk not to include the( CDE mailer.  At least one would hope so.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 11:16:00 -07005 From: "cstranslations" <cstranslations@email.msn.com> = Subject: Re: Field width in sys$fao control string directives ) Message-ID: <Orrhwc4t$GA.265@cpmsnbbsa04>   8 David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> wrote in message% news:390F795B.84DC4588@bigpond.com...  > cstranslations wrote:  > try  >  > declare word outlen1 > declare word outlen2  J Actually the program that it came out of wasn't even "catching" the returnI length. When I've used sys$fao in the past it's always been from C with a K descriptor that I've set up pointing to static storage with sys$fao writing I (via the 2nd argument) into the descriptor. Guess I was getting a tad bit  sloppy there . . .   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 17:55:02 GMT / From: "Tom Simpson" <simpsont@xxx.mediaone.net> 6 Subject: Re: How get the internal system temperature ?E Message-ID: <W%YQ4.21862$BG3.52939@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>   C So for an ES40 with 2 CPU's and using your DCL procedure, I get the 6 following values: (I added the raw vector and header).  + -------------------------------------------   ES40 CPU Temperature Monitor + ------------------------------------------- ( Vector: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF1615181A1A CPU  0   Temperature  78( Vector: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF1615181A1A CPU  1   Temperature  78( Vector: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF1615181A1A CPU  2   Temperature  75( Vector: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF1615181A1A CPU  3   Temperature  69( Vector: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF1615181A1A CPU  4   Temperature  71( Vector: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF1615181A1A  ) Why does it display 5 temperature values? D This is OpenVMS 7.1-2, ES40 - 2 node cluster.  Each ES40 has 2 CPUs.   Regards, Tom   ? "Bob Kaplow" <kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org.mars2> wrote in message % news:ldoiUu0SzcLq@eisner.decus.org... K > In article <000801bfb16c$f9abe680$094c88c8@unipobjetivo.br>, "Valdemir J. & Santos" <valdemir-@uol.com.br> writes:0 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > + > Please turn off MIME & HTML when posting.  > D > > I'm needing get the internal system temperature of a Alphaserver DS20.=20D > > Is there any way to get this information using a DCL procedure ? >  > $ set noverify > $ set noon > $!* > $ tt    = f$getsyi("temperature_vector")# > $ if $status .eq. %xfba then exit 
 > $ cpu   = 0  > $loop:$ > $ ttn   = f$extract(30-cpu*2,2,tt)$ > $ if ttn .eqs. "FF" then goto next > $ t     = (%x'ttn*9)/5+32 6 > $ write sys$output "CPU  ''cpu'   Temperature  ''t'" > $next: > $ cpu   = cpu + 1 ! > $ if cpu .lt. 16 then goto loop  > L > I've tried it on 8200/8400/GS140/DS20 (eisner). On other CPUs you get this > error: > D > %SYSTEM-E-NOT_LOADED, system service or exec routine is not loaded >  \TEMPERATURE_VECTOR\  > H > The strange thing is that on my 8 CPU 8400/GS140, only 2 of the 8 CPUs? > report valid information, and they are not on the same board!  >  > Bob Kaplow > G > SPAM: spamrecycle@ChooseYourmail.com uce@ftc.gov postmaster@127.0.0.1    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 01:06:26 GMT ! From: Ian Parker <parker@gol.com> 6 Subject: Re: How get the internal system temperature ?& Message-ID: <UL6MbJAnOLF5EwHd@gol.com>  5 In article <Fu4pBt.4E0@spcuna.spc.edu>, Terry Kennedy  <terry@gate.tmk.com> writes $ >Ian Parker <parker@gol.com> writes:K >> Mind you, the first CPU on the 4100 appears to be running hot enough for I >> all of them!  Possibly I needed to a decimal point in there somewhere.  >>G >> AlphaServer 4100 5/400 4MB Model 1408 (4 cpu), OpenVMS V7.1-2, CPU 0  >> temperature is 254C (489F)  > : >  Nope, you didn't handle the undocumented return values: > % >literal SYI$K_ENV_STATUS_FAILED = 0; ! >literal SYI$K_ENV_STATUS_OK = 1; , >literal SYI$K_ENV_STATUS_NOT_PRESENT = 255;( >literal SYI$K_ENV_STATUS_UNKNOWN = 254; > + >  So it's telling you "status is unknown".  > 4 >       Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com6 >        terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USA  D Well, indeed that's the 254C explained, with the other three CPUs onB that box returning the "not present" status.   Having the documentC mentioned below, I added DIAGNOSE privilege and got back a sensible ( value of 26C (still for that CPU alone).  B Resorting to searching the Compaq Web-site, I found one reference:3 http://www.openvms.digital.com/wizard/wiz_2945.html   B This refers to the data being available from 7.1-1H1 but later and requiring Serverworks support.       --  
 Ian Parker   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 20:25:51 -0700 ! From: Shane.F.Smith@healthnet.com , Subject: Kind of portable Alpha, VMS capable8 Message-ID: <882568D8.0012DD86.00@WHDOM99.HEALTHNET.COM>  . From: Shane F Smith@FHS on 05/06/2000 08:25 PM     To:   Info-Vax@mvb.saic.com  cc: - Subject:  Kind of portable Alpha, VMS capable   N With all the discussion about the old Tadpole Alphabook recently, I was ratherF surprised to find what appears to be another portable Alpha with newer, technology. It's at the bottom of this page:  1      http://www.novaglobal.com.sg/alphastorm.html   K I don't know anything more that what's on the website, and I don't know the M company at all, but it claims to be portable and completely binary compatible P with Compaq Alphaservers. I don't see a price, and I get the impression it's notP battery powered but a carry in, plug in device. Looks really interesting though. Here's some details:  =      Compaq Alpha 21164 ev56 CPU at 533MHz, 600MHz, or 667MHz ;      2MB (533MHz) or 4MB (600MHz, 667MHz) external L3 cache &      128MB ECC SDRAM expandable to 1GB,      Built-in 15-inch TFT Display (1024x768)      1.06B/s Memory Bandwith.      2 64-bit and 2 32-bit PCI and 2 ISA slots"      2 Serial and 1 Parallel ports(      Choice of various operating systems      either AlphaBIOS (Linux) )      or Compaq SRM Console (UNIX and VMS)    Shane       H  #####   ---------------------------------------------------------------I #-O-O-# | Shane underbar S on pacbell dot net. Spam to abuse@127.0.0.1  | H #  L  #  ---------------------------------------------------------------D  #===#   Don't blame HealthNet for anything I say. They're innocent.H   ###    OpenVMS: The operating system God runs the Earth simulation on.   ------------------------------  " Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 04:56:27 GMT0 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <shannon@world.std.com>0 Subject: Re: Kind of portable Alpha, VMS capable& Message-ID: <Fu6AIK.Jrn@world.std.com>  . <Shane.F.Smith@healthnet.com> wrote in message2 news:882568D8.0012DD86.00@WHDOM99.HEALTHNET.COM... >  > 0 > From: Shane F Smith@FHS on 05/06/2000 08:25 PM >  >  > To:   Info-Vax@mvb.saic.com  > cc: / > Subject:  Kind of portable Alpha, VMS capable  > I > With all the discussion about the old Tadpole Alphabook recently, I was  ratherH > surprised to find what appears to be another portable Alpha with newer. > technology. It's at the bottom of this page: > 3 >      http://www.novaglobal.com.sg/alphastorm.html  > I > I don't know anything more that what's on the website, and I don't know  the D > company at all, but it claims to be portable and completely binary
 compatibleI > with Compaq Alphaservers. I don't see a price, and I get the impression  it's notJ > battery powered but a carry in, plug in device. Looks really interesting though.  > Here's some details: > ? >      Compaq Alpha 21164 ev56 CPU at 533MHz, 600MHz, or 667MHz = >      2MB (533MHz) or 4MB (600MHz, 667MHz) external L3 cache ( >      128MB ECC SDRAM expandable to 1GB. >      Built-in 15-inch TFT Display (1024x768) >      1.06B/s Memory Bandwith0 >      2 64-bit and 2 32-bit PCI and 2 ISA slots$ >      2 Serial and 1 Parallel ports* >      Choice of various operating systems >      either AlphaBIOS (Linux) + >      or Compaq SRM Console (UNIX and VMS)   K And it weighs 35 pounds, which IIRC is three pounds less than the first CPQ 	 portable.   D I know the company and its owner. Nebojsa Novakovic is a very strongL proponent of Alpha, Tru64, and OpenVMS. Would that such enthusiasm were more evident at Compaq.   cheers,   
 terry shannon    ------------------------------   Date: 7 May 2000 04:23:20 GMT # From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu " Subject: RE: Marketing opportunity+ Message-ID: <8f2r3o$jhs$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>   % John Vottero <John@MVPSI.com> writes:   F >Another Compaq secret.  So, if All-in-1 supports mime attachments, anL >address book and a powerful scripting language, why couldn't it host a worm >such as this?  $ All in 1 wouldn't run an attachment.  E More basically, it would be far less likely to crash machines because D only a limited number of people have the ability to do that.  People= who are far more likely to understand the basics of security.   C I laugh at the warning at CRASHME, "This /will/ crash your machine" C What a joke.  Though that had to do with process quotas rather than  security per se.   D >> > If VMS had all these features and someone sent you a .COM file, >> > would you open it?   7 "open" a DCL file?  What the hell does that even mean?    You edit or you run DCL files.    I The whole problem, IM-most-arrogant-O, is that people are more interested  in glitz than substance.  B Sending 10 line memos as a Word(tm) file attachments is stupidity.   < >> VMS email clients are serious enough that they would not  >> automatically execute6 >> it for you inside  the context of the email client.  D >So that's why VMS mail doesn't support attachments?  Because it's aJ >"serious" e-mail client?  Keep telling yourself that and you may actually >start to believe it.   C No, VMS Mail doesnt' support attachments because DEC wants to push t people to buy All in 1.   A VMSMail, should it ever properly handle attachments, and All-in-1 G (hopefully) won't fall victim to this type of worm because it they willrC (hopefully) continue to be written by people who have a clue about aC security and for people who are interested in getting work done nota7 showing off their latest method of playing with macros.e  " (That is done via finger files :-)  m Robert Morphis Morphis@physics.niu.edu 8 Real Women change tires			abuse@uu.net postmaster@uu.net7 Real Men change diapers                 security@uu.nety   ------------------------------   Date: 7 May 2000 05:23:58 GMT ) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) ; Subject: OT: A Great Rant On the Latest Wintel Cartel VirusE' Message-ID: <8f2ule$f5f$1@joe.rice.edu>e  Keywords: virus,cartel,off-topic   From:   8   http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/00/May/loverant.html  G "That's the problem with technology. No matter how advanced it may be, eA  it only takes a nanosecond of human stupidity to bring it down. D  G  You can send warnings out until the cows come home, but somebody will -E  still log on to their e-mail and start clicking away without taking aC  the necessary half-second to stop, take a closer look, and think: F)  "Just what the hell am I doing here?"  ":  B It's too bad the media doen't pick up on even bigger problems withC Wintel Cartel systems, such as their deployment in mission-criticaln0 areas such as process control, pipeline control.  - These used to be markets VMS was dominant in.s  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 11:39:46 -07005 From: "cstranslations" <cstranslations@email.msn.com>r  Subject: Persona system services) Message-ID: <uWohCq4t$GA.321@cpmsnbbsa04>s  I I've never used the persona system services before (but am fooling around- with them now).M  I I am writing a command to interact with a server process. Among the other:L things that command has to do it start the server and obviously I would likeL it to start under the username (etc, etc, etc) that has been created for it.H In the past I've always done this in a round about way (have the commandH submit a batch job under the target username (with or without some minorE variations on the theme). From the descriptions of the persona system.I services in the fine system services manuals - there seems to be a better  way.  H So - I am calling sys$persona_create and specifying imp$_username in theC item list [argument]. I am then calling sys$persona_assume with the6H resulting persona handle. To keep things simple (at this point) I am theD calling sys$creprc to run an image that does nothing other than call
 sys$hiber.  K This is done with Compaq C V6.2-003 on a 7.1-1H2 system. I'm looking at the J 7.2 system service manuals. Can't find any issdef header (or anything that@ declares iss$_username) hence the substitution of imp$_username.  A sys$persona_create returns ss$_normal. sys$persona_assume returnsKI ss$_normal. The username associated with the process doesn't change. When0; sys$creprc is called the resulting process has my username..  H Am I way out in left field in what I'm thinking should be happening hereI (and asking one of those egg on my face questions)? Anyone out there that # can point to  an example somewhere?e   Joe?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 18:59:53 -0400t# From: John Vottero <John@MVPSI.com>s$ Subject: RE: Persona system servicesD Message-ID: <C15945A9D9EFCF11BA8B08002BBF1CCC0CD6E2@berry.mvpsi.com>  H When you call sys$persona_assume pass the flags with at least these bits set:   IMP$M_ASSUME_SECURITY2 IMP$M_ASSUME_ACCOUNT   > -----Original Message-----< > From: cstranslations [mailto:cstranslations@email.msn.com]& > Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 2:40 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comm" > Subject: Persona system services >  > = > I've never used the persona system services before (but am l > fooling around > with them now).  > < > I am writing a command to interact with a server process.  > Among the othere8 > things that command has to do it start the server and  > obviously I would like? > it to start under the username (etc, etc, etc) that has been   > created for it.c? > In the past I've always done this in a round about way (have 3
 > the command @ > submit a batch job under the target username (with or without  > some minorG > variations on the theme). From the descriptions of the persona systeme@ > services in the fine system services manuals - there seems to 
 > be a better  > way. > 6 > So - I am calling sys$persona_create and specifying  > imp$_username in theE > item list [argument]. I am then calling sys$persona_assume with thes; > resulting persona handle. To keep things simple (at this   > point) I am therF > calling sys$creprc to run an image that does nothing other than call > sys$hiber. > ? > This is done with Compaq C V6.2-003 on a 7.1-1H2 system. I'm c > looking at the? > 7.2 system service manuals. Can't find any issdef header (or y > anything thatTB > declares iss$_username) hence the substitution of imp$_username. > C > sys$persona_create returns ss$_normal. sys$persona_assume returns ? > ss$_normal. The username associated with the process doesn't l > change. When= > sys$creprc is called the resulting process has my username.0 > < > Am I way out in left field in what I'm thinking should be  > happening here= > (and asking one of those egg on my face questions)? Anyone s > out there that% > can point to  an example somewhere?e >  > Joeb >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 21:12:31 -0400n# From: John Vottero <John@MVPSI.com>c$ Subject: RE: Persona system servicesD Message-ID: <C15945A9D9EFCF11BA8B08002BBF1CCC0CD6E5@berry.mvpsi.com>   Allow me to correct myself.e  K Your problem is that you are passing the username in the item list and thatlL you are using V7.1 with V7.2 documentation.  Pass the username as the secondL argument.  Don't pass an item list.  In fact, in V7.1 the item list argumentL didn't exist.  Look at the VAX documentation of the persona services which I, think cover the Alpha V7.1 persona services.  F Here are some code snippets which work on V6.2 and up (including ALpha V7.2):       /*$     **  Create a persona of the user     */     persona_handle = 0; )     persona_flags = IMP$M_ASSUME_DEFPRIV;"'     return_status = sys$persona_create(t 			&persona_handle,  			&username_d,s 			persona_flags);%     if (!status_is_ok(return_status))a 	{ 	lib$signal(return_status);. 	}       /*     **  Become the usera     */)     persona_flags = IMP$M_ASSUME_SECURITYa 		  | IMP$M_ASSUME_ACCOUNT 		  | IMP$M_ASSUME_JOB_WIDE;'     return_status = sys$persona_assume(e 			&persona_handle,w 			persona_flags);%     if (!status_is_ok(return_status))o 	{ 	lib$signal(return_status);0 	}      /*8    **  Call sys$creprc    */o!    return_status = sys$creprc(...o       /*     **  Revert to my old selfu     */     persona_revert = 1; '     return_status = sys$persona_assume(g 			&persona_revert,s 			persona_flags);%     if (!status_is_ok(return_status))r 	{ 	lib$signal(return_status);t 	}  '     return_status = sys$persona_delete(a 			&persona_handle);%     if (!status_is_ok(return_status))  	{ 	lib$signal(return_status);- 	}   > -----Original Message----- > From: John Vottero  & > Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 7:00 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt& > Subject: RE: Persona system services >  > @ > When you call sys$persona_assume pass the flags with at least  > these bits > set: >  > IMP$M_ASSUME_SECURITYe > IMP$M_ASSUME_ACCOUNT >  > > -----Original Message-----> > > From: cstranslations [mailto:cstranslations@email.msn.com]( > > Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 2:40 PM > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come$ > > Subject: Persona system services > >  > > ? > > I've never used the persona system services before (but am   > > fooling around > > with them now).F > > > > > I am writing a command to interact with a server process.  > > Among the other3: > > things that command has to do it start the server and  > > obviously I would likeA > > it to start under the username (etc, etc, etc) that has been e > > created for it.hA > > In the past I've always done this in a round about way (have   > > the command B > > submit a batch job under the target username (with or without  > > some minor; > > variations on the theme). From the descriptions of the 9 > persona systemB > > services in the fine system services manuals - there seems to  > > be a bettert > > way. > > 8 > > So - I am calling sys$persona_create and specifying  > > imp$_username in theG > > item list [argument]. I am then calling sys$persona_assume with thea= > > resulting persona handle. To keep things simple (at this   > > point) I am the H > > calling sys$creprc to run an image that does nothing other than call > > sys$hiber. > > A > > This is done with Compaq C V6.2-003 on a 7.1-1H2 system. I'm f > > looking at theA > > 7.2 system service manuals. Can't find any issdef header (or   > > anything thatrD > > declares iss$_username) hence the substitution of imp$_username. > > E > > sys$persona_create returns ss$_normal. sys$persona_assume returnsoA > > ss$_normal. The username associated with the process doesn't   > > change. When? > > sys$creprc is called the resulting process has my username.a > > > > > Am I way out in left field in what I'm thinking should be  > > happening here? > > (and asking one of those egg on my face questions)? Anyone @ > > out there that' > > can point to  an example somewhere?- > >  > > Joe- > >  > >  >    ------------------------------  " Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 02:28:13 GMT9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)g$ Subject: Re: Persona system services+ Message-ID: <xnc3ybvoYfb6@eisner.decus.org>e  a In article <uWohCq4t$GA.321@cpmsnbbsa04>, "cstranslations" <cstranslations@email.msn.com> writes:U  J > So - I am calling sys$persona_create and specifying imp$_username in theE > item list [argument]. I am then calling sys$persona_assume with the0J > resulting persona handle. To keep things simple (at this point) I am theF > calling sys$creprc to run an image that does nothing other than call > sys$hiber. > M > This is done with Compaq C V6.2-003 on a 7.1-1H2 system. I'm looking at theKL > 7.2 system service manuals. Can't find any issdef header (or anything thatB > declares iss$_username) hence the substitution of imp$_username.  > The issdef values are new for Alpha V7.2.  Things are entirely different on V7.1.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 20:18:43 GMT 0 From: djlong@wild_wizards.net (David J. P. Long)& Subject: Re: the latest billybox virus, Message-ID: <39197d97.266985155@news.mv.com>  + Keith Brown <kbrown780@usfamily.net> wrote:   < >expressing what may of us think, While the world wrings its> >hands about how computer systems all over the world have been@ >trashed by the latest virus, somehow only us ignorant dinosaurs: >manage to keep our computers running. We must be ignorant0 >dinosaurs, right, because we don't run Windows.  B No, we're ignorant dinosaurs becuase we know better than to open aC .VBS file from someone who clearly should be forwarding scripts (atHE least, that's what happened to my colleague who got it - in his Lotus F Notes mail program - we looked at the code and saw how deadly it would be in Outlook).   A Then you have our IT department wringing it hands and sending outaE warnings in voicemail (that we can't skip) - EVEN THOUGH THERE'S *NO*iB OUTLOOK IN OUR CORPORATION!!!  We run Lotus Notes which treats VBS like sanskrit.A +----/|-------------------------------------+-------------------+oA |   | |  djlong@wildwizards.net              \                  | A |  /  |    djlong@msn.com                     \                 |sA | (    )     http://www.wildwizards.net        \ ICQ# 8976662   |tA +--`--' ----------------------------------------+---------------+g   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 19:11:38 -0400z# From: John Vottero <John@MVPSI.com>z& Subject: RE: the latest billybox virusD Message-ID: <C15945A9D9EFCF11BA8B08002BBF1CCC0CD6E3@berry.mvpsi.com>   > -----Original Message-----> > From: taterskins@patriot.net [mailto:taterskins@patriot.net] [snip]
 > In article  @ > <C15945A9D9EFCF11BA8B08002BBF1CCC0CD6E1@berry.mvpsi.com>, John! > Vottero <John@MVPSI.com> wrote:p >  [snip] > > ; > > Yes, this thing was just meatball programming, not the - > creation of a genius.- > > @ > > But what is the "REALLY, REALLY stupid feature"?  Is it the  > ability to open > > > mime attachments?  A powerful scripting language?  Aren't  > these good things?@ > > Are we really more secure if opening a mime attachment is a  > pain in the ass?@ > > The only solution I see is user education.  A lot of people  > just learned the
 > > hard way.0 > : > No, the REALLY, REALLY stupid feature is permitting the  > silent mailing offG > multiple messages to all the users in your mail list. While it can beSD > argued that the ability to invoke an executable from with the mail@ > environment MIGHT be a useful thing under SOME circumstances,  > wholesale2< > mail operations should only be possible under strict user  > control. Just my > 2 yen....a >   J But I can write a program for VMS which will send email to everyone in theL SYSUAF.  Does that mean that VMS has the same REALLY, REALLY stupid feature?   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 19:21:18 -0400/# From: John Vottero <John@MVPSI.com> & Subject: RE: the latest billybox virusD Message-ID: <C15945A9D9EFCF11BA8B08002BBF1CCC0CD6E4@berry.mvpsi.com>   > -----Original Message-----0 > From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.003546.killspam.013a [snip]
 > In article c< > <C15945A9D9EFCF11BA8B08002BBF1CCC0CD6E1@berry.mvpsi.com>, ' > John Vottero <John@MVPSI.com> writes:i [snip] > > @ > > But what is the "REALLY, REALLY stupid feature"?  Is it the  > ability to openM > > mime attachments?  B > 9 > The really, really stupid feature is the capability of 8 > *executing* mime; > attachments directly from mail.  Not data such as jpegs,   > mpegs, etc., but& > executables and scripts of any kind. >   K I almost buy that but it seems silly to think that making an operation moreoD cumbersome makes it more secure.  I would prefer a set of privilegesH enforced by the mail server.  Allowed to receive attachments, allowed to> receive executable attachments, allowed to send attachments...   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 18:41:31 -0500r, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>& Subject: Re: the latest billybox virus> Message-ID: <hshubs-902AD8.18413106052000@news.mindspring.com>  I In article <009E9B08.336F6BF0@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG r wrote:  I >Hmm.  I attended Mark Minasi's little presentation in San Diego and thennL >I read his book.  No quality and new features which nobody wanted and whichJ >don't work was the crux of his complaint about monopoly$chlock!  I wonderG >if, with a little nudging, we could get him to respond to this thread?.  K If users requested that MS include a brick so they could brain themselves, y think MS would do it?o -- a; Howard S Shubs      hshubs@mindspring.com    hshubs@bix.como? The Denim Adept     Which is better, Maryann or pickled Ginger? > SPAM: uce@ftc.gov   postmaster@[127.0.0.1]   abuse@[127.0.0.1]   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 18:42:47 -0500>, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>& Subject: Re: the latest billybox virus> Message-ID: <hshubs-0FD751.18424706052000@news.mindspring.com>  J In article <C15945A9D9EFCF11BA8B08002BBF1CCC0CD6E3@berry.mvpsi.com>, John  Vottero <John@MVPSI.com> wrote:   K >But I can write a program for VMS which will send email to everyone in thenM >SYSUAF.  Does that mean that VMS has the same REALLY, REALLY stupid feature?o  M No.  VMS MAIL doesn't let you do that kind of crap, and it doesn't do it for n- you.  Can't say the same for the MS software.t -- e; Howard S Shubs      hshubs@mindspring.com    hshubs@bix.com ? The Denim Adept     Which is better, Maryann or pickled Ginger? > SPAM: uce@ftc.gov   postmaster@[127.0.0.1]   abuse@[127.0.0.1]   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 21:23:04 GMTa= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)y& Subject: Re: the latest billybox virus0 Message-ID: <009E9B08.336F6BF0@SendSpamHere.ORG>  R In article <8evm6i$ei5$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> writes: >nI >Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in messageg+ >news:009E9A44.7FFBA90B@SendSpamHere.ORG...s >. >....  >eM >> First off, there was no 'rocket science' involved in the latest headlining M >> 'virus'.  It was simply and exploit of a REALLY, REALLY stupid feature in-a) >> corporated into bgInc.'s schlockwarez.e >uK >What the bigots in this group fail to understand, despite the overwhelmingEK >market evidence to the contrary, is that for the vast majority of computer I >users (the vast majority of whom can barely manage to deal with MS GUIs)aM >convenience is far more important than anything else:  if they can't use thetJ >machine, it really doesn't matter how secure it is, how often it crashes, >....o  K Horseshit!  "vast majority of computer users" are so f*ing brainwashed that K they don't know that there are any alternatives or anything other than that L monopoly$chlock crap to run on their boxes.  And simple?  Perhaps you missedK by recount of the weekend in hell when a friend (and MCSE) came to my houseCK to install Weendoze'98 on the moo-cow branded box.  Three 10 hour days overrK the president's day weekend...  Sysgening an early 80s vintage Xenix system  saw far simpler.  L >Email attachments are convenient.  Most people (see above) are going to useJ >systems that provide them, and couldn't care less if VMS doesn't (becauseJ >VMS doesn't address their needs anyway).  They won't give a damn that VMSG >users can't handle their email attachments, and they likely also won't(M >bother about security for their home systems, though in business use someonew7 >may set up things for them to include some protection.n  I ... and I don't give a damn that I can't read their monopoly$chlock weird I documents.  In fact, I'm working on a filter for my mail system to rejecteH anything with a monopoly$chlock MIME type header.  If you want to send aH file use a system designed for file transfer -- FTP comes to mind.  I amI tired of my bandwidth being consumed with some stupid email message auth-eH ored in monopoly$chlock weird (increasing the noise-to-signal ratio by aH large factor) and then, base64 encoded (further increasing the noise-to-> signal ratio) to ship it to my mailbox where I can't read it.   J >Microsoft pays attention to what most users want:  that's why its systemsI >are popular, and *one* of the reasons why VMS is not.  The main thing it M >could have done better in this particular case is to include an intermediate.H >warning screen in its default operation that pops up asking the user ifH >they're *really sure* they want to activate an email attachment that isD >executable rather than simply input data to some relatively trustedK >application (yeah, Word macro viruses might sneak through that filter, butcK >they're an issue to be dealt with in Word rather than in a general-purposee >mechanism).  H Hmm.  I attended Mark Minasi's little presentation in San Diego and thenK I read his book.  No quality and new features which nobody wanted and whichoI don't work was the crux of his complaint about monopoly$chlock!  I wonder0F if, with a little nudging, we could get him to respond to this thread?  J >And in any event, pissing and moaning about the quality of MS software inK >comp.os.vms accomplishes absolutely nothing and diverts attention from theeH >real VMS-related problems that *could* be addressed here if people wereL >committed to trying to tackle them rather than complaining that the rest of. >the world just doesn't appreciate their baby.  H monopoly$chlock crap is already infiltrating VMS.  If we're not careful G and we don't yell loudly enough, the next thing to be incorporated justtF might be one of these REALLY STUPID monopoly$chlock features.  Then, IG ask, where will we be?  "pissing and moaning" here, I would hope, wouldr5 send a signal that we won't/don't tolerate such crap.    --N VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001           VAXman@TMESIS.COM  L GNU Freeware -- What does the GNU *really* stand for?  Garbage!  Not Usable!   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 18:44:02 -0500o, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>& Subject: Re: the latest billybox virus> Message-ID: <hshubs-8F1155.18440206052000@news.mindspring.com>  J In article <C15945A9D9EFCF11BA8B08002BBF1CCC0CD6E4@berry.mvpsi.com>, John  Vottero <John@MVPSI.com> wrote:m  L >I almost buy that but it seems silly to think that making an operation moreE >cumbersome makes it more secure.  I would prefer a set of privilegesuI >enforced by the mail server.  Allowed to receive attachments, allowed too? >receive executable attachments, allowed to send attachments...t  L And that's making it more cumbersome.  Yes, security can be cumbersome.  So K can getting your files wiped out, your address list raped, and your e-mail   server shut down.r -- r; Howard S Shubs      hshubs@mindspring.com    hshubs@bix.com ? The Denim Adept     Which is better, Maryann or pickled Ginger?n> SPAM: uce@ftc.gov   postmaster@[127.0.0.1]   abuse@[127.0.0.1]   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 20:15:20 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>g& Subject: Re: the latest billybox virus( Message-ID: <8f2cf3$olu$1@pyrite.mv.net>  7 Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com> wrote in message-8 news:hshubs-8F1155.18440206052000@news.mindspring.com...K > In article <C15945A9D9EFCF11BA8B08002BBF1CCC0CD6E4@berry.mvpsi.com>, JohnC! > Vottero <John@MVPSI.com> wrote:E >eI > >I almost buy that but it seems silly to think that making an operationa moreG > >cumbersome makes it more secure.  I would prefer a set of privileges2K > >enforced by the mail server.  Allowed to receive attachments, allowed toeA > >receive executable attachments, allowed to send attachments...o >tI > And that's making it more cumbersome.  Yes, security can be cumbersome.h SoL > can getting your files wiped out, your address list raped, and your e-mail > server shut down.2  K And as long as you do it only to yourself, you have only yourself to blame.=  L Protecting people from themselves is usually not a good idea:  they'll oftenJ find a way around it anyway, but it remains a pain in the ass for everyoneL else who didn't need the protection in the first place.  The most that makesG sense is to provide mechanisms that allow protection when actions couldSI affect others in a shared environment (or when a user *elects* to protectu) him/herself against his/her own actions).n  8 But a lot of people here would rather believe that theirI feature-impoverished environment is somehow superior to one that provides$L both the means to shoot yourself in the foot and the mechanisms to avoid it,A in a manner that makes common usage easy for non-technical users.    - bill   > --= > Howard S Shubs      hshubs@mindspring.com    hshubs@bix.com_A > The Denim Adept     Which is better, Maryann or pickled Ginger? @ > SPAM: uce@ftc.gov   postmaster@[127.0.0.1]   abuse@[127.0.0.1]   ------------------------------  " Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 02:14:25 GMT9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)e& Subject: Re: the latest billybox virus+ Message-ID: <gOJ49EHUJxj1@eisner.decus.org>o  p In article <009E9B08.336F6BF0@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:  J > monopoly$chlock crap is already infiltrating VMS.  If we're not careful I > and we don't yell loudly enough, the next thing to be incorporated just H > might be one of these REALLY STUPID monopoly$chlock features.  Then, II > ask, where will we be?  "pissing and moaning" here, I would hope, woulde7 > send a signal that we won't/don't tolerate such crap.d  9 I am not convinced Microsoft errors are infiltrating VMS.n4 Certainly the Lanman networking support in Pathworks6 suffers from the insecurities of the Microsoft design,6 but nobody is pushing it for VMS-to-VMS communication.  7 As for the Registry, the DECUS talks claimed that their 6 goal was to build a Registry that was more robust than6 on NT, but that they still were not going to depend on it for booting VMS.s   ------------------------------  " Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 02:08:48 GMT9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)c& Subject: RE: the latest billybox virus+ Message-ID: <prWv5JmG2OhM@eisner.decus.org>   j In article <C15945A9D9EFCF11BA8B08002BBF1CCC0CD6E3@berry.mvpsi.com>, John Vottero <John@MVPSI.com> writes:   >> -----Original Message-----n? >> From: taterskins@patriot.net [mailto:taterskins@patriot.net]s  ; >> No, the REALLY, REALLY stupid feature is permitting the t >> silent mailing ofH >> multiple messages to all the users in your mail list. While it can beE >> argued that the ability to invoke an executable from with the mail A >> environment MIGHT be a useful thing under SOME circumstances, t >> wholesale= >> mail operations should only be possible under strict user m >> control. Just mys >> 2 yen.... >> s > L > But I can write a program for VMS which will send email to everyone in theN > SYSUAF.  Does that mean that VMS has the same REALLY, REALLY stupid feature?  ? Unless the system manager has purposefully loosened security oni3 your VMS system, ordinary users cannot read SYSUAF.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 20:31:24 -0500r, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>& Subject: Re: the latest billybox virus> Message-ID: <hshubs-64B03A.20312406052000@news.mindspring.com>  K In article <8f2cf3$olu$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> r wrote:  L >And as long as you do it only to yourself, you have only yourself to blame.  N Since it was done by files from someone else, did they did it to themselves?  6 Or was it done by someone else and fascilitated by MS?    M >Protecting people from themselves is usually not a good idea:  they'll oftenwK >find a way around it anyway, but it remains a pain in the ass for everyone M >else who didn't need the protection in the first place.  The most that makes H >sense is to provide mechanisms that allow protection when actions couldJ >affect others in a shared environment (or when a user *elects* to protect* >him/herself against his/her own actions).  M Protecting babies from themselves is a great idea.  Most people -are- babies  C on computers.  However, even that is specious.  Look at me.  I'm a -N professional programmer and system manager.  I've been working with VMS since O before graduating from college in 1987.  I've been using Macintosh since 1985, 3E Apple II since 1978, IBM 1130 since 1980, TRS-80 since 1976, and the wL occasional PDP-11 since forever.  Do I work with no protection?  When I run O under VMS, do I run with priviledges enabled, or under UNIX as root?  I Do Not.v  G In general, the Right Thing is to perform tasks with the lowest access nO possible, in order to prevent havoc which could happen at higher levels.  What  H I think we and others are saying is that, for the sake of a responsible M operating system, MS should make their product safer.  They haven't done it, h2 though they seem to approach this concept with NT.  M Why -shouldn't- we hold them responsible for acting like everyone else?  Why lG should they be immune to what the rest of the industry holds itself to?u    9 >But a lot of people here would rather believe that theirEJ >feature-impoverished environment is somehow superior to one that providesM >both the means to shoot yourself in the foot and the mechanisms to avoid it,-B >in a manner that makes common usage easy for non-technical users.  N Mr. Todd, perhaps the subject string on this thread has you getting defensive I for some reason, but I think you're missing the point.  Somehow, I doubt -; you're Mr. Gates in disguise, though I guess it's possible.- -- -; Howard S Shubs      hshubs@mindspring.com    hshubs@bix.com ? The Denim Adept     Which is better, Maryann or pickled Ginger?l> SPAM: uce@ftc.gov   postmaster@[127.0.0.1]   abuse@[127.0.0.1]   ------------------------------  " Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 01:55:44 GMT0 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <shannon@world.std.com>& Subject: Re: the latest billybox virus& Message-ID: <Fu626n.2L0@world.std.com>  9 "Howard S Shubs" <hshubs@mindspring.com> wrote in messagee8 news:hshubs-902AD8.18413106052000@news.mindspring.com...J > In article <009E9B08.336F6BF0@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG > wrote: > K > >Hmm.  I attended Mark Minasi's little presentation in San Diego and theneH > >I read his book.  No quality and new features which nobody wanted and which L > >don't work was the crux of his complaint about monopoly$chlock!  I wonderI > >if, with a little nudging, we could get him to respond to this thread?  >LL > If users requested that MS include a brick so they could brain themselves, > think MS would do it?s  K Sure. Microsoft Brick(tm) Millennium Edition. This important upgrade can bee yours for a mere $89.95.   cheers,m  
 terry shannone   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 21:51:57 -0500d, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>& Subject: Re: the latest billybox virus> Message-ID: <hshubs-8091A9.21515706052000@news.mindspring.com>  : In article <Fu626n.2L0@world.std.com>, "Terry C. Shannon"  <shannon@world.std.com> wrote:  L >Sure. Microsoft Brick(tm) Millennium Edition. This important upgrade can be >yours for a mere $89.95.c  > And it's a Standard!  New standard octagonal brick.  Patented. -- 2; Howard S Shubs      hshubs@mindspring.com    hshubs@bix.com-? The Denim Adept     Which is better, Maryann or pickled Ginger?a> SPAM: uce@ftc.gov   postmaster@[127.0.0.1]   abuse@[127.0.0.1]   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 01:37:01 -0400' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>?& Subject: Re: the latest billybox virus( Message-ID: <8f2va9$bt0$1@pyrite.mv.net>  7 Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com> wrote in messagee8 news:hshubs-64B03A.20312406052000@news.mindspring.com...L > In article <8f2cf3$olu$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> > wrote: >uG > >And as long as you do it only to yourself, you have only yourself tos blame. >cB > Since it was done by files from someone else, did they did it to themselves?o8 > Or was it done by someone else and fascilitated by MS?  I In every individual instance, it was done by the person who clicked on anaH attachment without having a clue that it was safe to do so - despite theK explicit warning "Some files can contain viruses or otherwise be harmful to1F your computer.  It is important to be certain that this file is from aD trustworthy source." in the dialog box that asks whether to save the attachment to disk or open it.  H If that person had a non-null Outhouse address book, they also became anJ accomplice (in addition to any deleterious affects on their own system) toG the affects further down the line.  None of that is meant to reduce thetG culpability of the worm creator, of course, for deliberate release of as malicious nuisance.e  I MS indeed facilitated this, though IMO provided reasonable - and timely -nH warning (see above; if the warning had appeared only in documentation, IF might be a bit less forgiving).  So did the computer manufacturer, theL telephone company (assuming a dial-up connection), and the power company, to name only a few.   >S >sI > >Protecting people from themselves is usually not a good idea:  they'llD oftenbD > >find a way around it anyway, but it remains a pain in the ass for everyoneI > >else who didn't need the protection in the first place.  The most that  makestJ > >sense is to provide mechanisms that allow protection when actions couldL > >affect others in a shared environment (or when a user *elects* to protect, > >him/herself against his/her own actions). >rG > Protecting babies from themselves is a great idea.  Most people -are-a babies > on computers.s  K Funny thing, though:  adults tend to like to make decisions for themselves,tE regardless of the opinions of elitists (I was tempted to say 'elitist.K assholes', but that wouldn't be polite) who might wish otherwise.  And theya& buy products that allow them to do so.  5   However, even that is specious.  Look at me.  I'm a:I > professional programmer and system manager.  I've been working with VMS> sinceaJ > before graduating from college in 1987.  I've been using Macintosh since 1985, F > Apple II since 1978, IBM 1130 since 1980, TRS-80 since 1976, and theI > occasional PDP-11 since forever.  Do I work with no protection?  When Io runhL > under VMS, do I run with priviledges enabled, or under UNIX as root?  I Do Not.  H Ever?  And *could* you if you had a need to?  There's a large difference= between *choosing* not to and being prohibited from doing so.f   >oH > In general, the Right Thing is to perform tasks with the lowest accessJ > possible, in order to prevent havoc which could happen at higher levels. WhatI > I think we and others are saying is that, for the sake of a responsibleaJ > operating system, MS should make their product safer.  They haven't done it,s4 > though they seem to approach this concept with NT. > I > Why -shouldn't- we hold them responsible for acting like everyone else?t Why I > should they be immune to what the rest of the industry holds itself to?c  L Like the Mac, perhaps?  Not being a Mac user, I didn't realize they even hadJ multi-user protection, let alone always ran with it enabled in single-userJ environments.  BeOS is an example of a largely single-user system that mayJ have multi-user protection, but then again it's only a couple of years oldF rather than the decades-old single-user bases from which Win9x and Mac spring.o  H And it has been noted elsewhere by others in the 'marketing opportunity'J branch of this discussion that the ability to execute email attachments isD not limited to MS mail systems:  Unix CDE and a bunch of other emailJ processors have been asserted (though I can't vouch for that assertion) toI behave pretty much the same way Outhouse does.  If so, that suggests that.; you should be a bit more careful with your generalizations.l   >e > ; > >But a lot of people here would rather believe that theirsL > >feature-impoverished environment is somehow superior to one that providesK > >both the means to shoot yourself in the foot and the mechanisms to avoid. it,mD > >in a manner that makes common usage easy for non-technical users. >hE > Mr. Todd, perhaps the subject string on this thread has you getting 	 defensive 8 > for some reason, but I think you're missing the point.  I I can't detect any defensive feelings on my part, but it's certainly trueM2 that the point is being missed (though not by me).  L The thread began with the statement "if these people would run real computerL systems, shit like this wouldn't happen to them."  Now, I hate to be the oneI to break it to you guys, but VMS is just not going to be able to lead thes? world out of its wilderness and into the promised land from its G long-standing and firmly-ensconced position at the absolute back of themG widely-used-system pack.  Nor is its lack of convenient features reallytB something to crow about:  it would make about as much sense for myG 86-year-old mother to expound upon the superiority of her venerable Mac G because it couldn't be affected by such things (not having a modem...).q  > VMS users can be justifiably grateful that they were spared anI unpleasantness that many were not.  But to legitimately boast about VMS'saI superiority in this area, VMS would have to support all the features that I the Great Unwashed have grown to like in more popular email systems *and*sK retain its vaunted strengths (which of course are very real, but just don'teH seem to outweigh its 'strangeness' in most real-world sales situations).  J As long as the demands for VMS enhancements come mostly from a user familyI tree that by and large does not fork (so to speak), such overall-superiortF facilities in email (or other areas) don't seem likely to appear:  theJ people who use VMS have mostly done so forever, are largely happy with it,I just want more of the same, and aren't inclined to press for the kinds ofiL enhancements that might make it attractive to the people who *don't* already4 use it but might if they found it more approachable.  J So every once in a while, when I see one of the more egregious examples ofK VMS bigotry pop up, I lob a grenade into the discussion just to see whether L there's *anyone* around here not already too ossified in their beliefs to beD able to think a bit outside their conventional box.  But I'm usually
 disappointed.0   - bill     Somehow, I doubt= > you're Mr. Gates in disguise, though I guess it's possible.m > --= > Howard S Shubs      hshubs@mindspring.com    hshubs@bix.comiA > The Denim Adept     Which is better, Maryann or pickled Ginger?a@ > SPAM: uce@ftc.gov   postmaster@[127.0.0.1]   abuse@[127.0.0.1]   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 14:32:29 -0500e% From: donina <donina@ce.mediaone.net>d- Subject: Used Decserver 90m: need priv accessu+ Message-ID: <3914734D.2A1E51FB@hotmail.com>S  H Greetings, I recently bought a DECserver 90M "as is". I am trying to getG it setup as a standalone termserver for IP. I do not have access to any H VMS systems. I did not recieve any CD's with it. MNENG2 (the boot image)? is saved in flash on the 90M. I reset it to factory defaults by2E following the user manual available on Cabletron's web site. I have a1F terminal hooked up to it and can see log messages and can log into it,+ but I do not have the priviledged password.$E I am pretty sure that I successfully reset it, beacuse the IP addresss# and some other settings disapeared.0H I am guessing that it resets to a default password from the factory, butD I can't find any mention of what it is in the documentation from theG cabletron web site. If I am correct does could someone tell me what theaF password is? If I am wrong could someone tell me how to set priv mode?
 Thank you!   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 19:59:13 GMTe/ From: "Tom Simpson" <simpsont@xxx.mediaone.net>e1 Subject: Re: Used Decserver 90m: need priv access E Message-ID: <lQ_Q4.21867$BG3.53265@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>f  F If it's the same as all the other DECservers (and I believe it is) the defaultn= password is SYSTEM and the default remote password is ACCESS.    Regards, Tomt  2 "donina" <donina@ce.mediaone.net> wrote in message% news:3914734D.2A1E51FB@hotmail.com...tJ > Greetings, I recently bought a DECserver 90M "as is". I am trying to getI > it setup as a standalone termserver for IP. I do not have access to anydJ > VMS systems. I did not recieve any CD's with it. MNENG2 (the boot image)A > is saved in flash on the 90M. I reset it to factory defaults by G > following the user manual available on Cabletron's web site. I have aeH > terminal hooked up to it and can see log messages and can log into it,- > but I do not have the priviledged password.rG > I am pretty sure that I successfully reset it, beacuse the IP addressc% > and some other settings disapeared.sJ > I am guessing that it resets to a default password from the factory, butF > I can't find any mention of what it is in the documentation from theI > cabletron web site. If I am correct does could someone tell me what the-H > password is? If I am wrong could someone tell me how to set priv mode? > Thank you! >d   ------------------------------  $ Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 13:07:44 -07005 From: "cstranslations" <cstranslations@email.msn.com>t1 Subject: Re: Used Decserver 90m: need priv accesse) Message-ID: <#kM2Nb5t$GA.351@cpmsnbbsa04>n  0 donina <donina@ce.mediaone.net> wrote in message% news:3914734D.2A1E51FB@hotmail.com... J > Greetings, I recently bought a DECserver 90M "as is". I am trying to getI > it setup as a standalone termserver for IP. I do not have access to anysJ > VMS systems. I did not recieve any CD's with it. MNENG2 (the boot image)A > is saved in flash on the 90M. I reset it to factory defaults bynG > following the user manual available on Cabletron's web site. I have aoH > terminal hooked up to it and can see log messages and can log into it,- > but I do not have the priviledged password.MG > I am pretty sure that I successfully reset it, beacuse the IP addressi% > and some other settings disapeared.aJ > I am guessing that it resets to a default password from the factory, butF > I can't find any mention of what it is in the documentation from theI > cabletron web site. If I am correct does could someone tell me what thelH > password is? If I am wrong could someone tell me how to set priv mode? > Thank you!    > I'm not currently involved in the hardware end of things . . .  G However if I remember (correctly) from two jobs back - I think that the-& "factory default" password was SYSTEM.   Joee   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 15:38:11 -0500i- From: Kevin Marley <kevin_marley@hotmail.com>s1 Subject: Re: Used Decserver 90m: need priv accessa+ Message-ID: <391482B2.E7AA35FD@hotmail.com>   
 Thank you!   Tom Simpson wrote:  H > If it's the same as all the other DECservers (and I believe it is) the	 > defaultp? > password is SYSTEM and the default remote password is ACCESS.  >t
 > Regards, > Tom  >s4 > "donina" <donina@ce.mediaone.net> wrote in message' > news:3914734D.2A1E51FB@hotmail.com...DL > > Greetings, I recently bought a DECserver 90M "as is". I am trying to getK > > it setup as a standalone termserver for IP. I do not have access to anydL > > VMS systems. I did not recieve any CD's with it. MNENG2 (the boot image)C > > is saved in flash on the 90M. I reset it to factory defaults bynI > > following the user manual available on Cabletron's web site. I have a2J > > terminal hooked up to it and can see log messages and can log into it,/ > > but I do not have the priviledged password. I > > I am pretty sure that I successfully reset it, beacuse the IP address.' > > and some other settings disapeared.nL > > I am guessing that it resets to a default password from the factory, butH > > I can't find any mention of what it is in the documentation from theK > > cabletron web site. If I am correct does could someone tell me what thepJ > > password is? If I am wrong could someone tell me how to set priv mode? > > Thank you! > >t   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 01:06:26 GMTt! From: Ian Parker <parker@gol.com>r, Subject: Re: wich list: DIRECTORY limitation& Message-ID: <Y7+PXAA0ALF5EwF9@gol.com>  9 In article <6MAY200008475532@gerg.tamu.edu>, Carl Perkins. <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> writes 7 >kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org.mars2 (Bob Kaplow) writes...eL >}Does anyone have a good workaround for this. A few weeks ago, I was tryingF >}to figure out what a PURGE on a particular disk would get me back. IL >}couldn't find any easy way to get a directory listing with sizes of what aJ >}given PURGE command would delete. Surely if PURGE can figure out what toB >}delete, there must be a DIRECTORY syntax to list the same files? >} r >}      Bob Kaplow       > G >Sound like you wnat the NOPE utility. It's source has been posted here D >before (it's pretty short). I could dig it up if you can't find it. > 	 >--- Carlh  G A workaround to see how much space a purge would release is to make uset- of the /VERSION qualifier on the DIR command.            DIR/SIZE/GRAND spec &         DIR/SIZE/GRAND /VERSION=n spec  K The difference is the space that PURGE/KEEP=n on that spec will release.       Regardsu -- e
 Ian Parker   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.254 ************************