1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 13 May 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 266       Contents: Re: Compaq and CORBA CPU Temperature from DCL Re: CPU Temperature from DCL Re: DEFINE ? Re: DEFINE ? Re: DEFINE ?( RE: External authentication in a cluster Re: HSG/Fibre training??? % Re: Is "The GNU on VMS Project" dead?  Mapping HSJ Storage controllers  Re: Marketing opportunity  Re: the latest billybox virus  Re: the latest billybox virus  Re: the latest billybox virus ' UDP Process Variable Server for OpenVMS " Re: Wildfire and the future of VMS  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 00:53:16 GMT 9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Compaq and CORBA + Message-ID: <J3b8dzsWNlC8@eisner.decus.org>   ] In article <19974196wnr@natron.demon.co.uk>, Roger@natron.demon.co.uk (Roger Barnett) writes:   B > Incidentally, the above demo/system was put together by Compaq's$ > Business-Critical Server Division.  4 For anyone who missed Stephen Hoffman's recent post,- that is the Division which also produces VMS.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 23:08:34 GMT / From: "Tom Simpson" <simpsont@xxx.mediaone.net> ! Subject: CPU Temperature from DCL E Message-ID: <S90T4.38434$BG3.85754@typhoon.jacksonville.mediaone.net>   # One last attempt to resolve this...   6 I have DCL program to read the temperature information= using the f$getsyi lexical function (from a post on this NG). * Can someone tell me what the output means?  4 Each ES40 system has 2 CPU's, the temperature_vector: returns 5 values.  The values look different for each node/ which is what I would expect, but why 5 values?   4 I have included the DCL program, VMS sw and firmware information below:  5 I asked COMPAQ the same question and they had no more  information than I did...    Regards, Tom Simpson  904 725-8584   From F$GETSYI:6 ------------------------------------------------------/         HW Name:        Compaq AlphaServer ES40          HW Model:       1814&         Version:        OpenVMS V7.1-2/         Last Booted:    30-APR-2000 07:25:39.00          Avail CPU:      2          CPU Type:       8          Real CPU Type:  8          Sys Type:       34         CPU:            128           Console Ver:    V5.5-107         PALCODE Ver:    1.61-40         Node HW Ver:    0716000000000000000000226 ------------------------------------------------------   Program Output:    SYSMAN> set environment/cluster  SYSMAN> do @cpu_temp2 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node OSIJX1+ -------------------------------------------       ES40 CPU Temperature Monitor+ -------------------------------------------  CPU  0   Temperature  77 CPU  1   Temperature  77 CPU  2   Temperature  73 CPU  3   Temperature  68 CPU  4   Temperature  692 %SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node OSIJX2+ -------------------------------------------       ES40 CPU Temperature Monitor+ -------------------------------------------  CPU  0   Temperature  77 CPU  1   Temperature  75 CPU  2   Temperature  73 CPU  3   Temperature  66 CPU  4   Temperature  66+ -------------------------------------------    DCL Program: $! CPU_TEMPERATURE.COM $! $ set noverify $ on error then goto exit  $ high_limit = 80  $ ws := write sys$output $ node = f$getsyi("NODENAME")  $!% $ tt = f$getsyi("temperature_vector")  $ save_status = $status  $ if save_status .eq. %xfba  $ then( $    ws "ERROR - Status: ''save_status'" $    goto exit $ endif  $!2 $ ws "-------------------------------------------"' $ ws "    ES40 CPU Temperature Monitor" 2 $ ws "-------------------------------------------" $ cpu   = 0  $loop: $    s_pos = (30-cpu*2) D $!!    ws "Vector: ''tt'  Length: ''f$length(tt)'  Start: ''s_pos' "" $    ttn   = f$extract(s_pos,2,tt)% $    if ttn .eqs. "FF" then goto exit & $!    if ttn .eqs. "FF" then goto next $    t     = (%x'ttn*9)/5+32 $    gosub check_limit5 $    ws "CPU  ''cpu'   Temperature  ''t' ''warn_msg'"  $! $next: $    cpu   = cpu + 1" $    if cpu .lt. 16 then goto loop $! $exit: $ exit save_status $! $failed: $ ws "STATUS = FAILED" $ exit $!
 $CHECK_LIMIT:  $! $ If t .ge. high_limit $ Then1 $     warn_msg = "WARNING - HIGH CPU TEMPERATURE"  $ Else $     warn_msg = ""  $ EndIf  $ RETURN $!   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 00:47:52 GMT / From: StevenU@POBoxes.com (Steven P. Underwood) % Subject: Re: CPU Temperature from DCL 5 Message-ID: <391ca53c.115899447@news.ma.ultranet.com>   F That's funny.  I also have a new ES40 with 1 CPU and OVMS v7.2-1 whichB I am currently configuring.  I cut and pasted the script from hereE exactly, and it shows 4 readings.  I assume the temperature sensor is , on the main board and not on the CPU module.   Steve   / On Fri, 12 May 2000 23:08:34 GMT, "Tom Simpson" " <simpsont@xxx.mediaone.net> wrote:  $ >One last attempt to resolve this... > 7 >I have DCL program to read the temperature information > >using the f$getsyi lexical function (from a post on this NG).+ >Can someone tell me what the output means?  > 5 >Each ES40 system has 2 CPU's, the temperature_vector ; >returns 5 values.  The values look different for each node 0 >which is what I would expect, but why 5 values? > 5 >I have included the DCL program, VMS sw and firmware  >information below:  > 6 >I asked COMPAQ the same question and they had no more >information than I did... > 	 >Regards,  >Tom Simpson
 >904 725-8584  >  >From F$GETSYI: 7 >------------------------------------------------------ 0 >        HW Name:        Compaq AlphaServer ES40 >        HW Model:       1814 ' >        Version:        OpenVMS V7.1-2 0 >        Last Booted:    30-APR-2000 07:25:39.00 >        Avail CPU:      2 >        CPU Type:       8 >        Real CPU Type:  8 >        Sys Type:       34  >        CPU:            128! >        Console Ver:    V5.5-107  >        PALCODE Ver:    1.61-4 1 >        Node HW Ver:    071600000000000000000022 7 >------------------------------------------------------  >  >Program Output: >   >SYSMAN> set environment/cluster >SYSMAN> do @cpu_temp 3 >%SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node OSIJX1 , >-------------------------------------------! >    ES40 CPU Temperature Monitor , >------------------------------------------- >CPU  0   Temperature  77  >CPU  1   Temperature  77  >CPU  2   Temperature  73  >CPU  3   Temperature  68  >CPU  4   Temperature  69 3 >%SYSMAN-I-OUTPUT, command execution on node OSIJX2 , >-------------------------------------------! >    ES40 CPU Temperature Monitor , >------------------------------------------- >CPU  0   Temperature  77  >CPU  1   Temperature  75  >CPU  2   Temperature  73  >CPU  3   Temperature  66  >CPU  4   Temperature  66 , >------------------------------------------- > 
 >DCL Program:  >$! CPU_TEMPERATURE.COM  >$!  >$ set noverify  >$ on error then goto exit >$ high_limit = 80 >$ ws := write sys$output  >$ node = f$getsyi("NODENAME") >$! & >$ tt = f$getsyi("temperature_vector") >$ save_status = $status >$ if save_status .eq. %xfba >$ then ) >$    ws "ERROR - Status: ''save_status'"  >$    goto exit  >$ endif >$! 3 >$ ws "-------------------------------------------" ( >$ ws "    ES40 CPU Temperature Monitor"3 >$ ws "-------------------------------------------"  >$ cpu   = 0 >$loop:  >$    s_pos = (30-cpu*2)E >$!!    ws "Vector: ''tt'  Length: ''f$length(tt)'  Start: ''s_pos' " # >$    ttn   = f$extract(s_pos,2,tt) & >$    if ttn .eqs. "FF" then goto exit' >$!    if ttn .eqs. "FF" then goto next  >$    t     = (%x'ttn*9)/5+32  >$    gosub check_limit 6 >$    ws "CPU  ''cpu'   Temperature  ''t' ''warn_msg'" >$!  >$next:  >$    cpu   = cpu + 1 # >$    if cpu .lt. 16 then goto loop  >$!  >$exit:  >$ exit save_status  >$! 	 >$failed:  >$ ws "STATUS = FAILED"  >$ exit  >$!  >$CHECK_LIMIT: >$!  >$ If t .ge. high_limit  >$ Then 2 >$     warn_msg = "WARNING - HIGH CPU TEMPERATURE" >$ Else  >$     warn_msg = "" >$ EndIf	 >$ RETURN  >$!  >  >  >    Steven P. Underwood,DNRC Whitinsville,MA  StevenU@POBoxes.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 20:15:45 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: DEFINE ? , Message-ID: <391C9EAE.1A4FCA3D@videotron.ca>   Howard S Shubs wrote:  > >$ define myfile foo.tmp;0P > That notation refers to the current version of the file.  What I'm not sure is+ > if it changes if a newer version appears.   N When you specify the version number of a file, it forces a directory search to
 get the file.   N If foo.tmp;9 is  installed, and you then update it and create foo.tmp;10 then:  K "foo.tmp" will be found in the installed list and bypass a directory search 
 and access ;9   H "foo.tmp;0" will do a directory search and find the most recent file and
 access ;10   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 19:23:31 -0500 , From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: DEFINE ? > Message-ID: <hshubs-D0E680.19233112052000@news.mindspring.com>  6 In article <391C9EAE.1A4FCA3D@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei % <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:   I >"foo.tmp;0" will do a directory search and find the most recent file and  >access ;10   H That answers -that- question.  Sounds like a reason to use the notation. --  ; Howard S Shubs      hshubs@mindspring.com    hshubs@bix.com ? The Denim Adept     Which is better, Maryann or pickled Ginger? > SPAM: uce@ftc.gov   postmaster@[127.0.0.1]   abuse@[127.0.0.1]   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 00:52:33 GMT / From: StevenU@POBoxes.com (Steven P. Underwood)  Subject: Re: DEFINE ? 5 Message-ID: <391ca6ab.116267057@news.ma.ultranet.com>   A A quick question.  Would this method work for batch queue command E files which resubmit themselves automatically.  It could be useful to @ run a more recent version without deleting the current entry and
 resubmitting.    Steve   , On Fri, 12 May 2000 20:15:45 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:    >Howard S Shubs wrote: >> >$ define myfile foo.tmp;0 Q >> That notation refers to the current version of the file.  What I'm not sure is , >> if it changes if a newer version appears. > O >When you specify the version number of a file, it forces a directory search to  >get the file. > O >If foo.tmp;9 is  installed, and you then update it and create foo.tmp;10 then:  > L >"foo.tmp" will be found in the installed list and bypass a directory search >and access ;9 > I >"foo.tmp;0" will do a directory search and find the most recent file and  >access ;10    Steven P. Underwood,DNRC Whitinsville,MA  StevenU@POBoxes.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 16:27:15 -0500 / From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com> 1 Subject: RE: External authentication in a cluster T Message-ID: <CB874B506A79D1118FBC006097306B89031201E5@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>   [...snip, snip, snip...]  3 Is OpenVMS able to use Kerberos for authentication?   $ Ed Stuart                           ( Manager, Systems and Desktop Services	   Information Technology Services  City of Austin, Austin Energy  Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com  + "Glittering prizes and endless compromises  . shatter the illusion of integrity" - Neil Pert  B *Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here*   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 17:56:00 GMT % From: Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com> " Subject: Re: HSG/Fibre training???) Message-ID: <8fhgj7$dcs$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   + In article <13G6ovh+1ZH9@eisner.decus.org>, 0   young_r@eisner.decus.org (Robert Young) wrote:- > In article <5fFArcNA0JCH@eisner.decus.org>, 4 kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org.mars2 (Bob Kaplow) writes:D > > We just got an ES40 with Fibrechannel, a pair of switches, and aE > > rack full of HSG80 subsystems. We've got previous experience with G > > HSJ, HSZ, CI, DSSI, SCSI, etc, but all this fibre stuff is both new  > > and different.  H I don't feel the HSG80 is that much different than older HSx controllers8 , well, except for the HSZ10 and the HSZ22, of course...  G FC-Port setup is described in the manual - do that before you connect a  port to a switch.   D Connections, well that becomes interesting in a non-trivial SAN, butF with only one ES40 (2 KGPSA HBA, I guess) running OpenVMS I'd say it'sE a non-problem unless you swap FC-HBAs multiple times and the internal D table (which has 'only' 64 entries [ACS V8.5, V8.4 had 32 entries!])
 is full... I suggest you enter    HSG> show connections D and then delete, if there are any ones before you connect your array; to the switches - document which port goes to which switch.   F Switches should work out-of the box (well, I guess you need to put theG GBICs in before :-) unless you need port-zoning, which I don't think is   necessary in your configuration.  H FC host bus adapter (HBA) - learn what a WWN is and make sure you alwaysF have an up-to-date list which contains where each adapter is, what itsB WWN is and to which switch port it is connected. It will be handy, later.  F > > Has anyone found any good training courses on HSG/Fibre technology> > > and SAN? Either from Compaq, Global, or some other vendor?  E I have taken the StorageWorks ASE trainings here in Germany, but last E year they were rather NT and FC_AL focused. OTOH, when I attended the C training the first ECO kit with FC support for OpenVMS was barely 2 C weeks old. The update training 2 weeks ago included switches, but I ( had already played with them in our lab.  F > > For those already using HSG/Fibre, what kind of things should I beG > > looking to learn? I don't even know the right questions to ask yet.   F I suggest you just start with the web page I mention below, but ignoreC the data replication manager (DRM) material. As there is so much to C learn, you don't want to know about this unless you firmware is ACS  V8.5P, trust me.  C > Good fibre channel docs on line at www.openvms.digital.com:8000 , & > of course the manuals are very good.  + Also take a look at the updated manuals at: ;     http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvms/fibre/index.html   F I found old ones misleading. E.g.: you DO NEED the console command LUNH or OpenVMS will NOT configure your disks - the old documentation sounded@ like enabling the CCL was optional - guess how I found that out?  ? > 	One word of caution... I spent 3 days working with HSG80s so B > 	don't have a ton of experience but one thing I learned is there@ > 	is a nice GUI piece that works with the HSG80s  (follow-on to@ > 	SWCC I believe, not sure setup when I got there.) and another@ >       Windows based piece that gives you a command line on the >       controller...   
 Just curious: E was that some kind of Compaq's Insight Manager(which I don't know) or / the web-based EVM (enterprise volume manager) ?   C >       I was working off a laptop ran both, bored quickly with the C >       GUI and ran the  command line piece , SHOW THIS, SHOW UNIT,   >       etc... then RUN VTDPY...A > 	couldn't get out of VTDPY, control-c/control-y was not hitting G >       the controller... spent 10 minutes trying to dig up a VT , gave > >       up on that and rebooted the controller (non-production >       environment).   F If you already have CLI experience with older controllers - forget theC GUI!! Most commands that deal with storage are the same anyway and, D I think, you have better control, e.g. mirror-set member assignment.   > 	Give me a VT any old day.  6 I use a notebook with a (non-M$) terminal emulator to: 1) log the session" 2) have the ability to scroll back.    many %EVL messages are longer than 24 linesB 3) use the session log feature to list the configuration to a file   --
 Uwe Zessin    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 19:12:37 GMT ' From: Colin Blake <colin@theblakes.com> . Subject: Re: Is "The GNU on VMS Project" dead?- Message-ID: <391C57A3.C706AE55@theblakes.com>    David Mathog wrote:   N > 1. tcsh to handle those builds that depend on a variety of /bin/csh scripts.L > The NCBI toolkit, for instance, runs a custom csh script and does a seriesG > of make operations out of that.   Since the script won't run in bash, < > that's pretty much it for using GNV to help with the port.  V Don't know about NCBI, but all the stuff I've seen is happy with a Bourne based shell.  ' > 2. some sort of translator to convertc >oW >     cc -I . -I../foo -I../../boo -DHAVE_WOMBAT_H -DHAVE_PLATYPUS.H -o silly.o silly.cn >S > into >o_ >     cc/include=([],[-],[--.boo])/define=(HAVE_WOMBAT_H,HAVE_PLATYPUS.H)/obj=silly.obj silly.ci  9 You'd better try GNV again. This is EXACTLY what it does.r   Colin.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 19:51:49 -0400-/ From: "Moore, John D" <john_d_moore@reyrey.com> ( Subject: Mapping HSJ Storage controllersJ Message-ID: <C12E81FC6CF2D211956100A0C9E0FE8B01CE6DA7@oh15ex04.reyrey.com>   Hi all,g  B Don't mean to be a pain my first day on the list but I'm wondering> if anyone's come up with a good automated solution for mappingD HSJ storage arrays ...  I've come up with one that works fairly well (check it out here:a  (    http://www.angelfire.com/oh4/longrun/  C at the bottom of my 'tick' page (please don't laugh at my web page)s  @ ).  In a nutshell, I do a SET HOST/DUP ... within a SET HOST/LOG? to execute a series of HSJ commands and trap the output, then Iu parse the output and build:C  " a) Some ascii maps and indexes and b) Some HTML maps and indexesn  D (One thing I forgot to mention, to 'label' what application 'owns' a@ specific disk, I put a file, DONT-DELETE.INF, in the MFD of each disk).  E Maybe someone can get some use out of these, but I'm really wonderingED is there a better way to do this?  I read somewhere once upon a timeC that a utility existed that would let you execute HSJ commands fromuC a vax without having to go thru the SET HOST/DUP channel ... True ?a   -John M. Sr. Vax/Unix System AdminQ Reynolds & Reynolds Co.e   ------------------------------   Date: 12 May 2000 19:31:08 GMT# From: system@niuhep.physics.niu.edu-" Subject: Re: Marketing opportunity+ Message-ID: <8fhm5s$nkd$1@husk.cso.niu.edu>q  $ Art Rice <arice@ue.itug.org> writes:0 >On Wed, 10 May 2000 11:21:28 +0000, Nigel Arnot []J >>Once again, not a recommendation. Merely recognition that NT is less bad >>than it's stable-mates.  > ' >You refer to NT's mates as "stable"?   5 >You've got to learn to choose your words better. :>)e  5 Well, think of what tends to accumulate in stables...o     Morphis@physics.niu.edu08 Real Women change tires			abuse@uu.net postmaster@uu.net7 Real Men change diapers                 security@uu.nets   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 18:27:18 GMTS From: d.webb@mdx.ac.uk& Subject: Re: the latest billybox virus) Message-ID: <8fhidi$fmh$1@nnrp1.deja.com>-  H In article <y4hfc4dfwt.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>,C   Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>u wrote:= > Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:- >-C > > Unless the system manager has purposefully loosened security on-7 > > your VMS system, ordinary users cannot read SYSUAF.u > * > Reading RIGHTLIST will do in most cases. >u > 	Jan >     - Rightslist should also not be world readable.-  / On my systems it's protection is (RWED,RWED,R,)g      
 David Webb VMS and Unix team leader CCSS Middlesex University    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.f   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 15:28:52 -0400a' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>b& Subject: Re: the latest billybox virus( Message-ID: <8fhltq$p2g$1@pyrite.mv.net>  K One should note that simply clicking 'OK' in the current warning dialog boxaJ does not result in attachment execution:  it saves the attachment to disk.I You have to click the 'open it' option and *then* click OK to execute it.'I And the ability to disable the warning dialog on a per-file-type basis atiF least helps avoid encountering it in so many unnecessary contexts that' ignoring the warning becomes automatic.b  G It's not perfect (nothing that permits users to do anything that might,nL under some circumstances, be dangerous ever is, from a security standpoint),I but neither is it by any stretch of the imagination the horrendous designL$ flaw that some people have asserted.   - bill  : Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> wrote in message0 news:009E9F9C.5C3CF969.8@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk...I > > > My fault:  I should have said "Microsoft could help by setting up an *second*G > > > intermediate cautionary dialog box...", since there's already oneg
 containingG > > > a virus warning that you have to pass through before executing anE > > > attachment.O > >7I > > But that box is almost useless, because it's analogous to "The Littlee BoyxK > > that Called `Wolf'." Doesn't is have a "permanent disable" tick-box? Ifm so,oH > > most users will tick it after the third or fifth time it comes up in totalm8 > > disregard for the contents of file it is looking at. > >e > Yes -- if it works that way. > G > The right thing to do is to make the second box one that tells you toiJ > do something completely different to continue, rather than one that does it.s > Something like >sK >  "This is an untrustworthy executable attachment, which could very easily D >   be a virus or other malicious attack on your system. If you have+ >   any doubts, do not run this attachment.M >wE >  "If you are certain that you want to trust it, click "Run selectedtI >   untrustworthy attachment" from the "Executables" tab of the "Options"S menu.  >4F > Preferably in bright red. Unthinking clicking will result in nothingI > happening -- only reading of the warning will result in  the attachment I > being executed. And you can't turn it off, though in the unlikely event J > that your job involves executing dozens of mailed scripts daily, you may; > learn to singleclick and go straight to the options menu.s >pF > And yes ... make it possible for system administration to completelyH > disable both "Run untrustworthy attachment" and saving-to-file of such$ > attachments, at installation time! >-B > This isn't new stuff, it goes back to before electronics. Safety
 interlocksJ > have to force users to jump out of their usual routine. The override has to beeI > required infrequently, or it becomes part of the usual routine and getsrI > overridden from habit. The install disable corresponds to a padlock, top which " > only the supervisor has the key. >  > Yours,
 > Nigel ArnotU > NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK > 7 > "In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."o >o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 21:15:10 -0500p* From: Keith Brown <kbrown780@usfamily.net>& Subject: Re: the latest billybox virus+ Message-ID: <391CBAAE.C0AEF12@usfamily.net>    Bill Todd wrote: > 9 > Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com> wrote in message-: > news:hshubs-64B03A.20312406052000@news.mindspring.com...N > > In article <8f2cf3$olu$1@pyrite.mv.net>, "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>
 > > wrote: > >wI > > >And as long as you do it only to yourself, you have only yourself tos > blame. > >_D > > Since it was done by files from someone else, did they did it to
 > themselves?": > > Or was it done by someone else and fascilitated by MS? > K > In every individual instance, it was done by the person who clicked on an J > attachment without having a clue that it was safe to do so - despite theM > explicit warning "Some files can contain viruses or otherwise be harmful tonH > your computer.  It is important to be certain that this file is from aF > trustworthy source." in the dialog box that asks whether to save the  > attachment to disk or open it. > J > If that person had a non-null Outhouse address book, they also became anL > accomplice (in addition to any deleterious affects on their own system) toI > the affects further down the line.  None of that is meant to reduce thewI > culpability of the worm creator, of course, for deliberate release of ag > malicious nuisance.  > K > MS indeed facilitated this, though IMO provided reasonable - and timely -$J > warning (see above; if the warning had appeared only in documentation, IH > might be a bit less forgiving).  So did the computer manufacturer, theN > telephone company (assuming a dial-up connection), and the power company, to > name only a few. >  > >g > > K > > >Protecting people from themselves is usually not a good idea:  they'lle > often0F > > >find a way around it anyway, but it remains a pain in the ass for
 > everyoneK > > >else who didn't need the protection in the first place.  The most thatn > makesaL > > >sense is to provide mechanisms that allow protection when actions couldN > > >affect others in a shared environment (or when a user *elects* to protect. > > >him/herself against his/her own actions). > >aI > > Protecting babies from themselves is a great idea.  Most people -are-  > babies > > on computers.; > M > Funny thing, though:  adults tend to like to make decisions for themselves,mG > regardless of the opinions of elitists (I was tempted to say 'elitist-M > assholes', but that wouldn't be polite) who might wish otherwise.  And they1( > buy products that allow them to do so. > 7 >   However, even that is specious.  Look at me.  I'm acK > > professional programmer and system manager.  I've been working with VMS- > sincesL > > before graduating from college in 1987.  I've been using Macintosh since > 1985,sH > > Apple II since 1978, IBM 1130 since 1980, TRS-80 since 1976, and theK > > occasional PDP-11 since forever.  Do I work with no protection?  When I. > run N > > under VMS, do I run with priviledges enabled, or under UNIX as root?  I Do > Not. > J > Ever?  And *could* you if you had a need to?  There's a large difference? > between *choosing* not to and being prohibited from doing so.i >  > >wJ > > In general, the Right Thing is to perform tasks with the lowest accessL > > possible, in order to prevent havoc which could happen at higher levels. > WhatK > > I think we and others are saying is that, for the sake of a responsibleiL > > operating system, MS should make their product safer.  They haven't done > it,l6 > > though they seem to approach this concept with NT. > >oK > > Why -shouldn't- we hold them responsible for acting like everyone else?r > Why K > > should they be immune to what the rest of the industry holds itself to?t > N > Like the Mac, perhaps?  Not being a Mac user, I didn't realize they even hadL > multi-user protection, let alone always ran with it enabled in single-userL > environments.  BeOS is an example of a largely single-user system that mayL > have multi-user protection, but then again it's only a couple of years oldH > rather than the decades-old single-user bases from which Win9x and Mac	 > spring.a > J > And it has been noted elsewhere by others in the 'marketing opportunity'L > branch of this discussion that the ability to execute email attachments isF > not limited to MS mail systems:  Unix CDE and a bunch of other emailL > processors have been asserted (though I can't vouch for that assertion) toK > behave pretty much the same way Outhouse does.  If so, that suggests thate= > you should be a bit more careful with your generalizations.E >  > >d > >r= > > >But a lot of people here would rather believe that theirsN > > >feature-impoverished environment is somehow superior to one that providesM > > >both the means to shoot yourself in the foot and the mechanisms to avoida > it,,F > > >in a manner that makes common usage easy for non-technical users. > >RG > > Mr. Todd, perhaps the subject string on this thread has you gettingn > defensive6: > > for some reason, but I think you're missing the point. > K > I can't detect any defensive feelings on my part, but it's certainly truee4 > that the point is being missed (though not by me). > N > The thread began with the statement "if these people would run real computerN > systems, shit like this wouldn't happen to them."  Now, I hate to be the oneK > to break it to you guys, but VMS is just not going to be able to lead theHA > world out of its wilderness and into the promised land from itseI > long-standing and firmly-ensconced position at the absolute back of theiI > widely-used-system pack.  Nor is its lack of convenient features reallyiD > something to crow about:  it would make about as much sense for myI > 86-year-old mother to expound upon the superiority of her venerable MaceI > because it couldn't be affected by such things (not having a modem...).s > @ > VMS users can be justifiably grateful that they were spared anK > unpleasantness that many were not.  But to legitimately boast about VMS's K > superiority in this area, VMS would have to support all the features thatsK > the Great Unwashed have grown to like in more popular email systems *and*nM > retain its vaunted strengths (which of course are very real, but just don'ttJ > seem to outweigh its 'strangeness' in most real-world sales situations). > L > As long as the demands for VMS enhancements come mostly from a user familyK > tree that by and large does not fork (so to speak), such overall-superiorcH > facilities in email (or other areas) don't seem likely to appear:  theL > people who use VMS have mostly done so forever, are largely happy with it,K > just want more of the same, and aren't inclined to press for the kinds ofnN > enhancements that might make it attractive to the people who *don't* already6 > use it but might if they found it more approachable. > L > So every once in a while, when I see one of the more egregious examples ofM > VMS bigotry pop up, I lob a grenade into the discussion just to see whether N > there's *anyone* around here not already too ossified in their beliefs to beF > able to think a bit outside their conventional box.  But I'm usually > disappointed.i >  > - bill >  >   Somehow, I doubt? > > you're Mr. Gates in disguise, though I guess it's possible.n > > --? > > Howard S Shubs      hshubs@mindspring.com    hshubs@bix.com C > > The Denim Adept     Which is better, Maryann or pickled Ginger? B > > SPAM: uce@ftc.gov   postmaster@[127.0.0.1]   abuse@[127.0.0.1]   > J > Ever?  And *could* you if you had a need to?  There's a large difference? > between *choosing* not to and being prohibited from doing so.m >   9 Interesting comment Bill. My employer chose to filter ALLm= scripts and executables from e-mail coming into the corporatew< e-mail server. The opinion of the corporate security guys is@ that the risk is too high to let the users make the decision for@ themselves. And BTW we have thousands of Outhouse clients on the
 network.     -- w Keith BrownC kbrown780@usfamily.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 14:02:56 -0500y" From: Earl Lakia <lakia@ipact.com>0 Subject: UDP Process Variable Server for OpenVMS) Message-ID: <391C5560.DF632A2F@ipact.com>k  C IPACT has recently developed a UDP server from OpenVMS that servers  process variables toG multiple Windows NT boxes. Currently the targets are Wonderware InTouchn view nodes.  TheG data is served from a VAX at 15 times a second.  We have a version thatVG use DDE and a version that writes directly into the Wonderware databasen using the InTouch F Extensibility Tool Kit.  The host sends a mixture of tags depending on
 the updateD required (e.g., all of the fastest, some portion of the tags for the  next scan rate frequency, etc.).  G The DDE version became overloaded (700 Mhz Pentium system) when we sent, the 8K bytetB packets at 13 times a second.  The VAX Ethernet controller becomes becomes the limitingC factor with the non-DDE version (same box which was running at 100%) using DDE is now running at about 18%).  B Would love to apply this for someone else who needs something like unique like this.  ThisnH particular implementation was for a tandem mill (high speed reduction of steel strip) and was% used for replacing  ASEA Tessleators.r  H Actually, I guess it wouldn't be too much effort to port this to UNIX or Windows NT.T  H Obviously, the advantage of this method is that the ability to broadcast data instead ofwD needing to send to each node that needs to have the data.  If a node misses the data, fivehD seconds later a new copy is present.  One also needs to limit who is actually on ther network as well.  > Contact me if this meet a particular need in your environment.   --
 Earl D. Lakia 0 Senior Staff Engineer         Web: www.ipact.com4 Snail Mail:                   Email: lakia@ipact.com
 IPACT Inc.1 260 S. Campbell St.           Phone: 219-464-7212  Valparaiso, IN 46383   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 16:00:11 -0400  From: jlahman@LTVSteel.com+ Subject: Re: Wildfire and the future of VMSi8 Message-ID: <852568DD.006DF478.00@notesnta.LTVSteel.com>  N There must be multiple wildfire invitations for mine is not that specific.  My; invitation originated from the Compaq Great Lakes division.@   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.266 ************************