1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 17 May 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 275       Contents:. Re: address munging revisited: the web version. Re: address munging revisited: the web version. Re: address munging revisited: the web version. Re: address munging revisited: the web version. Re: address munging revisited: the web version. Re: address munging revisited: the web version. Re: address munging revisited: the web version. Re: address munging revisited: the web version. Re: address munging revisited: the web version AW: verifying username password  Backup solution/server Re: Backup solution/server Re: Backup solution/server Re: Backup solution/server Re: Backup solution/server Re: Backup solution/server Re: Backup solution/server Re: Backup solution/server Re: Backup solution/server Re: Backup solution/server Re: Changing the prompt! Re: Changing the prompt! RE: Changing the prompt!, Re: Compaq Bets Big on New Web Servers (WSJ), Re: Compaq Bets Big on New Web Servers (WSJ) Re: comparative TCP/IP tests Re: comparative TCP/IP tests Re: CPU Temperature from DCL Re: CPU Temperature from DCL3 Creating a new user using a system service...HOW??? 7 Re: Creating a new user using a system service...HOW??? 7 Re: Creating a new user using a system service...HOW??? 7 Re: Creating a new user using a system service...HOW??? 7 RE: Creating a new user using a system service...HOW??? ) crystal clear vms filesystem from nt side  Re: Debug problem  Re: DEFINE ? RE: DEFINE ? DFOR$ALLOC_ALLOCATABLE64 Re: DFOR$ALLOC_ALLOCATABLE64 Re: DFOR$ALLOC_ALLOCATABLE64 Re: DFOR$ALLOC_ALLOCATABLE64 Re: DFOR$ALLOC_ALLOCATABLE64( Duplicated messages: are only I see it ?, Re: Duplicated messages: are only I see it ? Re: EDT macros FT: microVAX3100 model 80  help with runaway dtsession  Re: INSVIRMEM when linking% Re: Is "The GNU on VMS Project" dead? % Re: Is "The GNU on VMS Project" dead? % Re: Is "The GNU on VMS Project" dead? % Re: Is "The GNU on VMS Project" dead? % Re: Is "The GNU on VMS Project" dead? ? Re: ISAM Files in Standard Fortran (Was: big Fortran data file)  KOffice -> OVMS? Re: LAT over fiber problem2 Re: Linux, Unix to VMS VT220 emulation - solution.# Re: Mapping HSJ Storage controllers # Re: Mapping HSJ Storage controllers  Monitor Display on V7.2-1  Re: Monitor Display on V7.2-1   Re: Problems with Submit command  Re: Problems with Submit command Re: PTD's on VMS 5.x) qio completion time, after process exits? - Re: qio completion time, after process exits? - Re: qio completion time, after process exits? - Re: qio completion time, after process exits? " re:  Re: the latest billybox virus Re: the latest billybox virus  Re: the latest billybox virus  Re: threads + turning off system messages on console port , Re: UCX Printing to external printer servers, Re: UCX Printing to external printer servers$ Vaxstation graphics to SVGA monitor? Re: verifying username password  Re: verifying username password  Re: Verifying username password  Re: Verifying username password ) Re: VMS and Ole for Process Control (OPC)  Re: VMS on the desktop?  Re: VMS on the desktop?  Re: VMS on the desktop?  Re: VMS on the desktop?  Re: VMS on the desktop?  Re: VMS on the desktop?  Re: VMS on the desktop?  re: VMS on the desktop?  Re: VMS on the desktop?  Re: VMS on the desktop?  RE: VMS on the desktop?  Re: VMS on the desktop?  Re: VMS on the desktop? " Re: Wildfire and the future of VMS Re: Wildfire Announcement  Re: Wildfire Announcement  Re: Wildfire Announcement  Re: Wildfire Announcement  Re: Wildfire Announcement  Re: Wildfire Announcement  Re: Wildfire Announcement = Re: Wildfire Announcement: Michael Capellas, can you say VMS? = Re: Wildfire Announcement: Michael Capellas, can you say VMS? * Windows Front End to VT Based Applications  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 07:16:54 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)7 Subject: Re: address munging revisited: the web version . Message-ID: <8fth16$nam$1@info.service.rug.nl>  < In article <3921DEE2.A513E58F@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:   H > However, I find myself asking this question.  Do some of you get largeG > quantities of unsoliciated e-mail?  I ask because I do not mung up my J > address, and get relatively few unsoliciated messages.  There are a few,I > but easy enough to ignore and delete.  I see quite a few people worried H > about this, and wonder whether I've been lucky, or maybe they see it'sG > Dave Froble and decide he isn't worth bothering with.  I do doubt the ? > last idea. Also, it's possible that for some people, even one = > unsoliciated e-mail is too many.  Just curious about this.    B It seems to me the time spent fighting spam is much more than justG deleting it.  I don't munge email addresses; quite the opposite, I WANT G to be contacted (OK, maybe I need help).  Of about 100 Emails a day, 10 B or so are spam.  It takes less than a second to recognise them andB delete them.  Worth the trouble for the occasional unsolicited jobA offer, marriage proposal etc.  EVEN IF ONE PAYS BY THE BIT FOR IP  ACCESS, we're talking 10%.   ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 07:17:56 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)7 Subject: Re: address munging revisited: the web version . Message-ID: <8fth34$nam$2@info.service.rug.nl>  D In article <OF9D9336C4.1811B569-ON882568E2.00049001@foundation.com>,$ Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes:   K >For me, one spammer is one spammer too many. It's not the volume, it's the H >principle. I /always/ report spammers, if I can identify their ISP or aH >third party server they're using. I average about five spammer accountsF >cancelled a day. Probably a losing battle, but it makes me feel a bit >better.  H I agree completely.  But this is a separate issue than should one munge  one's email address.   ------------------------------    Date: 17 May 2000 03:29:34 -07004 From: set@ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (Sam E. Trenholme)7 Subject: Re: address munging revisited: the web version 2 Message-ID: <8ftsae$is9$1@ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU>  N >A few weeks ago there was a thread about munging of return addresses in news,M >and someone pointed out that even though I prevented address harvesters from O >getting my real address in news, my real address appeared in mailto entries on  >my web page.   & I have solved the spam problem thusly:  # 	http://www.samiam.org/crypto/html/   D Summary: Any email address I make public has encrypted data in it to8          determine where someone got my email address.     - Sam    --  ? Please post, and not email, questions you have about my answers > Go to http://samiam.org/cgi-bin/mailme to get my email address   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:47:50 -0400 " From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org>7 Subject: Re: address munging revisited: the web version 8 Message-ID: <4.3.1.0.20000517094516.01f76ab0@24.8.96.48>  0 At 09:25 PM 5/16/00 -0400, David A Froble wrote: >"John E. Malmberg" wrote:O > > I suspect that the SPAM-BOTs feel that the "-" in your name is an anti-spam O > > device and so reject your address.  I also suspect that many of them do not ) > > feel that my E-Mail address is valid.  > J >Interesting observation.  Maybe it's so.  When we applied for our domain  >name,L >we were surprised to find so many versions of tsoft, which is the company'sF >name.  An ISP in San Francisco had WWW.TSOFT.COM and there were otherO >variations.  The '-inc' was one of the options left open to us.  Sometimes you = >inadvertantly fall into some luck, if your guess is correct.   L Weird. I've been using this e-mail address for five or seven years, haven't F ever munched it for news posts, and have it splashed over lots of web J pages. I see maybe two pieces of spam a week directed at me, out of great  gobs of mail each week.   1 This sounds like it's not particularly typical...    					Dan  L ----------------------------------------------------------------------------L Dan Sugalski                          General and VMS-specific perl training
 dan@sidhe.org >                                       Mail me for more details   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:24:40 GMT * From: morrisj@epsilon3.com (Jay E. Morris)7 Subject: Re: address munging revisited: the web version 3 Message-ID: <3922ab42.419994364@news.brooks.af.mil>   2 On Tue, 16 May 2000 19:50:58 -0400, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:   .....  > L >Technically, the above is a good idea.  In today's point and click world, a? >button or such to initiate a mail message is valid and proper.  > G >However, I find myself asking this question.  Do some of you get large O >quantities of unsoliciated e-mail?  I ask because I do not mung up my address, P >and get relatively few unsoliciated messages.  There are a few, but easy enoughO >to ignore and delete.  I see quite a few people worried about this, and wonder P >whether I've been lucky, or maybe they see it's Dave Froble and decide he isn'tN >worth bothering with.  I do doubt the last idea. Also, it's possible that forQ >some people, even one unsoliciated e-mail is too many.  Just curious about this.  >   C 4 or 5 a day seems to be the average.  Although I've had as many as / 20.  Probably after a spate of usenet postings.    --6 Jay E. Morris' Epsilon 3 Productions, www.epsilon3.comA By 2000 we were supposed to have computers bright enough to argue 5 with us, but that doesn't mean the way Word does it.   -Jo Walton-    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:01:33 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> 7 Subject: Re: address munging revisited: the web version ) Message-ID: <3922B44D.9823A385@bbc.co.uk>    Dan Sugalski wrote:   N >  Weird. I've been using this e-mail address for five or seven years, haven'tG > ever munched it for news posts, and have it splashed over lots of web K > pages. I see maybe two pieces of spam a week directed at me, out of great  > gobs of mail each week.  > 3 > This sounds like it's not particularly typical...  >   H I get between zero and 5 spams a  day. Like Philip and Dan I just deleteF it on the spot. It really annoys me when a reply I send bounces due to a minged email address.   < I still get spam to my bris.ac.uk address than I havn't used3 for anything except reading mail in almost 4 years.   F Last time I checked I got spam to a desy.de address forwarded to siva,A that address must have been harvested way back in the early 90's.   D I get junk snail mail by the binload, or so it seems. This annoys meC more than as there is a greater physical effort required to bin it.    --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 11:58:36 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.044962.killspam.0138 (Wayne Sewell) 7 Subject: Re: address munging revisited: the web version . Message-ID: <mw1Fh6EGekH$@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  Q In article <39219932.598B71D7@hsc.vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu> writes: 7 > neato!!!!!  my kudos to ya!!!  may i steal that idea?  >   O Be my guest.  Anyone wishing to cause grief for spammers is an compatriot.  :-)   L Change it up some, though.  The whole idea is to confuse the bots.  If everyN uses exactly the same pattern, eventually some bot writer will eventually look for it.      --  O =============================================================================== M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx : http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O =============================================================================== C Jake Blues: "Sell me your children!  How much for the little girl?"    ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 12:04:50 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.044962.killspam.0138 (Wayne Sewell) 7 Subject: Re: address munging revisited: the web version . Message-ID: <fP1duq+vhNOe@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  Z In article <3921DEE2.A513E58F@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:   [my original post deleted]   > M > Technically, the above is a good idea.  In today's point and click world, a @ > button or such to initiate a mail message is valid and proper. > H > However, I find myself asking this question.  Do some of you get large& > quantities of unsoliciated e-mail?    I I used to.  With the enhanced anti-spam capabilities of MX and additional H filtering of my own in the site interface, it is less common to actuallyI *receive* the spam in my mailbox, but it still causes overhead on my smtp  server.   + >I ask because I do not mung up my address, Q > and get relatively few unsoliciated messages.  There are a few, but easy enough P > to ignore and delete.  I see quite a few people worried about this, and wonderQ > whether I've been lucky, or maybe they see it's Dave Froble and decide he isn't 3 > worth bothering with.  I do doubt the last idea.    N I do too.  It's in the nature of spam that there is absolutely no targeting toM people who might actually be interested in the product.  They send alsolutely * everything to every possible mail address.   >Also, it's possible that for : > some people, even one unsoliciated e-mail is too many.    
 It is for me.      Wayne  --  O =============================================================================== M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx : http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O =============================================================================== C Jake Blues: "Sell me your children!  How much for the little girl?"    ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 12:17:40 CDT= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.044962.killspam.0138 (Wayne Sewell) 7 Subject: Re: address munging revisited: the web version . Message-ID: <9Dt7k35AK9U0@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  i In article <8ftsae$is9$1@ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU>, set@ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (Sam E. Trenholme) writes: O >>A few weeks ago there was a thread about munging of return addresses in news, N >>and someone pointed out that even though I prevented address harvesters fromP >>getting my real address in news, my real address appeared in mailto entries on >>my web page.   > ( > I have solved the spam problem thusly: > % > 	http://www.samiam.org/crypto/html/  > F > Summary: Any email address I make public has encrypted data in it to: >          determine where someone got my email address.   >   # Interesting.  I may look into it.      The two basic problems I see:   N 1.  It assumes eunuchs, and all of my mail is processed and read on vms ratherO     than eunuchs or a billybox.  This might not be a big deal, depending on the      difficulty of porting.  N 2.  It is similar to username munging in that the domain name is left intact. M     I prefer domain munging rather than username munging because I don't want M     the spam to reach my smtp server at all.  There is overhead involved even K     if the mail is rejected.  However, I might be willing to switch over to K     gain the advantages of kiwi, such as the expiration of email addresses, (     tracking of the source of spam, etc.     Wayne    --  O =============================================================================== M Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxx : http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-) O =============================================================================== C Jake Blues: "Sell me your children!  How much for the little girl?"    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:28:30 +0200 9 From: "Manser, Nazim (EXT)" <nmanser@union-investment.de> ( Subject: AW: verifying username password@ Message-ID: <99371BC88DB7D311B79300508B95647E03EB01@uf22.uid.de>  J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFBFD9.E78F5704t Content-Type: text/plain;  	charset="iso-8859-1"w  	 Hi, john.e    : re: verifying username passwordManser, Nazim (EXT) posted:  9 >> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail readert7 >> does not understand this format, some or all of thisr >> message may not be legible.   >> Content-Type: text/html;y >> charset="iso-8859-1"a. >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  % >PLEASE DO NOT POST MESSAGES IN HTML!s  K >To newsgroups, mailing lists and unknown recipiants, send plain text only.k   >Or translated from AltaVista:  1 >BITTE GEBEN SIE NICHT MELDUNGEN IN HTML BEKANNT!sE >Zu den newsgroup, schicken Sendenlisten und Unbekanntrecipiants, nur  >normalen Text.p  I >Sending HTML can more than triple the size of your mail message, with noW >gain in functionality.p  I I'm sending the mails via outlook, so there are 4 ways of setting up mailD	 messages.   i choosed the plain text format.< please tell me if it arrives as plain text in the newsgroup.G that's all i can do. or is there an other solution to post to info-vax.t    2 >>here is the corrected form of the dcl procedure:  5 >>What required correction?  Was some symbol missing?y  8 1) in the posted procedure there wasn't a timeout value.I    may be it was set in the rest of thge procedure which you didn't post.B   2) in the following line B  8 $ directory/out=nl: 0"''uname_test' ''upass'"::login.com $  if $severity .ge. 2 $  then4 $    goto u_bada $  else			! ' $    goto u_ok		!  i added these lines.o $  endif			!  - original post (i have formatted it a little.)p  % $if f$trnlnm("AUTH_VERIFY") .NES. "" h $THEN  $  show sym uname_test S $endif% $if f$trnlnm("AUTH_VERIFY") .NES. "" t $THEN  $  show sym upass  $endif8 $directory/out=nl: 0"''uname_test' ''upass'"::login.com % $ if $severity .ge. 2 then goto u_bad  $ upass = "" $uretry: $  goto usrloopF    L without them the programm went in the usrloop, and after 3 times exited with SS$_NOPRIV.e    J >I do notice that you changed it from a SUBROUTINE to an inline procedure.5 >That is a change of functionality, not a correction.o  J >As it was extracted from a working DCL menuing program, it was functional as	 >written.   G ok, that's right, but i only made it functional without the working DCLe menuing programm.o for test purposes.  I >In the real menu program, when a selection timed out, it would clear theeG >username context, so that if someone wandered up to the terminal, theyi woulde" >need to present a password again.  K i didn't see the real menu programm, so i only made your posting functionaln for my r test.s   >-John  4 >A MIME is a terrible thing to waste on a newsgroup.  K it is right, but this is micro$oft product outlook, which make the trouble,sJ it only can set the email format to plain text, since it is the only way i can send emails.  5 which mailer have you at your site ? under which OS ?M  % how do you receive my mail ? MIMED ? p   reguards Nazim Manserp  # nmanser@union-investment.de (work) n manser@decus.de (permanent)e   Tel +49 69 2567661  J Ps: sorry if in spite of plain text setting the beast (micro$oft outlook)       continues to MIME the mails.        ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFBFD9.E78F5704d Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1"e+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablec  1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">u <HTML> <HEAD>9 <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =i charset=3Diso-8859-1">@ <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
 5.5.2650.12">u. <TITLE>AW: verifying username password</TITLE> </HEAD>  <BODY>  " <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hi, john.</FONT> </P> <BR>  F <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>re: verifying username passwordManser, Nazim (EXT) = posted:</FONT> </P>  G <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;&gt; This message is in MIME format. Since your =a mail reader</FONT>F <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;&gt; does not understand this format, some or = all of this</FONT>> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;&gt; message may not be legible.</FONT> </P>  : <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;&gt; Content-Type: text/html;</FONT>C <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;&gt; charset=3D&quot;iso-8859-1&quot;</FONT>i8 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;&gt; Content-Transfer-Encoding: = quoted-printable</FONT>i </P>  A <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;PLEASE DO NOT POST MESSAGES IN HTML!</FONT>  </P>  @ <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;To newsgroups, mailing lists and unknown =( recipiants, send plain text only.</FONT> </P>  : <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;Or translated from AltaVista:</FONT> </P>  ? <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;BITTE GEBEN SIE NICHT MELDUNGEN IN HTML =n BEKANNT!</FONT>sD <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;Zu den newsgroup, schicken Sendenlisten und = Unbekanntrecipiants, nur</FONT>o, <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;normalen Text.</FONT> </P>  E <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;Sending HTML can more than triple the size of =h! your mail message, with no</FONT>u4 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;gain in functionality.</FONT> </P>  E <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I'm sending the mails via outlook, so there are 4 =.( ways of setting up mail messages.</FONT>: <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>i choosed the plain text format.</FONT>F <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>please tell me if it arrives as plain text in the = newsgroup.</FONT>aG <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>that's all i can do. or is there an other solution =0 to post to info-vax.</FONT>. </P> <BR>  A <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;&gt;here is the corrected form of the dcl =t procedure:</FONT>i </P>  D <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;&gt;What required correction?&nbsp; Was some = symbol missing?</FONT> </P>  E <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>1) in the posted procedure there wasn't a timeout =b
 value.</FONT>tG <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; may be it was set in the rest of thge = ' procedure which you didn't post.</FONT>  </P>  2 <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>2) in the following line </FONT> </P>  > <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>$ directory/out=3Dnl: 0&quot;''uname_test' =  ''upass'&quot;::login.com</FONT>5 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>$&nbsp; if $severity .ge. 2</FONT>t& <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>$&nbsp; then</FONT>8 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>$&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; goto u_bad</FONT>! <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>$&nbsp; else =i, &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =3 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; !</FONT>y8 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>$&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; goto u_ok&nbsp; =B &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; !&nbsp; i added these =
 lines.</FONT>  <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>$&nbsp; =1 endif&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; = , &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =3 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; !</FONT>s </P>  F <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>original post (i have formatted it a little.)</FONT> </P>  ? <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>$if f$trnlnm(&quot;AUTH_VERIFY&quot;) .NES. =0 &quot;&quot; </FONT>  <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>$THEN </FONT>6 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>$&nbsp; show sym uname_test </FONT>  <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>$endif</FONT>@ <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>$if f$trnlnm(&quot;AUTH_VERIFY&quot;) .NES. = &quot;&quot; </FONT>  <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>$THEN </FONT>1 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>$&nbsp; show sym upass </FONT>a  <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>$endif</FONT>> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>$directory/out=3Dnl: 0&quot;''uname_test' =! ''upass'&quot;::login.com </FONT>l? <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>$ if $severity .ge. 2 then goto u_bad</FONT>i2 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>$ upass =3D &quot;&quot;</FONT>" <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>$uretry:</FONT>. <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>$&nbsp; goto usrloop</FONT> </P> <BR>  F <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>without them the programm went in the usrloop, and =, after 3 times exited with SS$_NOPRIV.</FONT> </P> <BR>  I <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;I do notice that you changed it from a SUBROUTINE =a to an inline procedure.</FONT>A <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;That is a change of functionality, not a =o correction.</FONT> </P>  F <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;As it was extracted from a working DCL menuing =$ program, it was functional as</FONT>& <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;written.</FONT> </P>  C <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>ok, that's right, but i only made it functional =-0 without the working DCL menuing programm.</FONT>, <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>for test purposes.</FONT> </P>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;In the real menu program, when a selection timed = out, it would clear the</FONT>I <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;username context, so that if someone wandered up = " to the terminal, they would</FONT>? <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;need to present a password again.</FONT>. </P>  G <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>i didn't see the real menu programm, so i only made =c& your posting functional for my </FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>test.</FONT>a </P>  " <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;-John</FONT> </P>  @ <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;A MIME is a terrible thing to waste on a = newsgroup.</FONT>u </P>  G <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>it is right, but this is micro$oft product outlook, =cI which make the trouble, it only can set the email format to plain text, =s6 since it is the only way i can send emails.</FONT></P>  G <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>which mailer have you at your site ? under which OS =r ?</FONT> </P>  > <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>how do you receive my mail ? MIMED ? </FONT> </P>  . <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>reguards Nazim Manser</FONT> </P>  < <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>nmanser@union-investment.de (work) </FONT>5 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>manser@decus.de (permanent)</FONT>t </P>  + <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Tel +49 69 2567661</FONT>  </P>  I <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Ps: sorry if in spite of plain text setting the beast =t (micro$oft outlook) </FONT>0= <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; continues to MIME the =i
 mails.</FONT>  </P> <BR> <BR>   </BODY>s </HTML>J) ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFBFD9.E78F5704---   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:42:37 +0100l4 From: "Thomas nilsen" <Thomas.Nilsen@kverneland.com> Subject: Backup solution/server32 Message-ID: <RUtU4.6215$C9.108464@news1.online.no>  F Does anyone know of a backup solution that will run on NT/Linux and doH backups of OpenVMS, Novell, NT etc? Compaq's own ABS system will only doD VMS,Unix and NT, but I need support for more systems. Anyone got any" experieonce on this or any advice?   Regards, Thomas Nilsen
 Kverneland IT    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:03:01 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>m# Subject: Re: Backup solution/server ) Message-ID: <39227C65.6FDB9A5F@gtech.com>m   Thomas nilsen wrote:H > Does anyone know of a backup solution that will run on NT/Linux and doJ > backups of OpenVMS, Novell, NT etc? Compaq's own ABS system will only doF > VMS,Unix and NT, but I need support for more systems. Anyone got any$ > experieonce on this or any advice?  2 Very few backup systems can cover so many systems.   Have you looked at Legato ?d  > BTW, I think most people are so happy with standard VMS BACKUP+ that they only use that for backup on VMS !    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 07:58:15 -0400 . From: Michael Austin <maustin@nc.prestige.net># Subject: Re: Backup solution/server . Message-ID: <39228957.CC152A8@nc.prestige.net>  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------93AAF844A15DFA493FE9B51C, Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bitH       Arne Vajhj wrote:   > Thomas nilsen wrote:J > > Does anyone know of a backup solution that will run on NT/Linux and doL > > backups of OpenVMS, Novell, NT etc? Compaq's own ABS system will only doH > > VMS,Unix and NT, but I need support for more systems. Anyone got any& > > experieonce on this or any advice? >.4 > Very few backup systems can cover so many systems. >e > Have you looked at Legato ?k >o@ > BTW, I think most people are so happy with standard VMS BACKUP- > that they only use that for backup on VMS !  >h > Arne  C And having been around VMS for 15+years now, I would personally andoI professionally ONLY reccommmend VMS backup for VMS systems.   Remember, aa, backup us useless unless you can restore it.   Michael Austin  & --------------93AAF844A15DFA493FE9B51C- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;h  name="maustin.vcf"  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit-, Content-Description: Card for Michael Austin  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="maustin.vcf"n   begin:vcard  n:Austin;Michael n tel;work:704-947-1089  x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Michael Austin, Incx
 adr:;;;;;; version:2.19+ email;internet:michaelaustininc@hotmail.come title:President. x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Michael E. Austin	 end:vcard   ( --------------93AAF844A15DFA493FE9B51C--   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:09:13 +0200g= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>s# Subject: Re: Backup solution/server ) Message-ID: <39228BE9.B2F43920@gtech.com>    Michael Austin wrote:e > Arne Vajhj wrote:B > > BTW, I think most people are so happy with standard VMS BACKUP/ > > that they only use that for backup on VMS !m > E > And having been around VMS for 15+years now, I would personally andkK > professionally ONLY reccommmend VMS backup for VMS systems.   Remember, a . > backup us useless unless you can restore it.  B I would assume that other backup-products is capable of restoring.   :-)r   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:50:32 +0100 4 From: "Thomas nilsen" <Thomas.Nilsen@kverneland.com># Subject: Re: Backup solution/servers2 Message-ID: <0FwU4.6278$C9.109664@news1.online.no>  7 "Arne Vajhj" <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in messaged# news:39227C65.6FDB9A5F@gtech.com...s > Thomas nilsen wrote:J > > Does anyone know of a backup solution that will run on NT/Linux and doL > > backups of OpenVMS, Novell, NT etc? Compaq's own ABS system will only doH > > VMS,Unix and NT, but I need support for more systems. Anyone got any& > > experieonce on this or any advice? >@4 > Very few backup systems can cover so many systems. >  > Have you looked at Legato ?o  L Legato is one option, but it costs both an arm and a leg. I was hoping there would be an alternative.  @ > BTW, I think most people are so happy with standard VMS BACKUP- > that they only use that for backup on VMS !-  J VMS Backup might be a good utility, but having worked with various productA on Netware, NT and unix I find it rather odd and not that full ofsK functionality. I must admin that I have not studied VMS backup in full, butoI from what I've seen it takes a lot more to produce a complete backup of a.G live system using VMS backup than most backup utils on other platforms.h   Regards, Thomaso   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:59:29 -0400p. From: Michael Austin <maustin@nc.prestige.net># Subject: Re: Backup solution/servera/ Message-ID: <392297B1.8BB14CF4@nc.prestige.net>   , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------20E48EE4E58D5E4A1CCD8F69, Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit      Arne Vajhj wrote:   > Michael Austin wrote:. > > Arne Vajhj wrote:D > > > BTW, I think most people are so happy with standard VMS BACKUP1 > > > that they only use that for backup on VMS !e > > G > > And having been around VMS for 15+years now, I would personally and,M > > professionally ONLY reccommmend VMS backup for VMS systems.   Remember, a 0 > > backup us useless unless you can restore it. > D > I would assume that other backup-products is capable of restoring. >  > :-)h >p > Arne  L One would hope so...  however I have seen unix products (7-8 years ago) thatM couldn't.  I don't recall the product name, just that I spent 36 hours tryingaN to recover a SCO unix box with this backup product and it appeared to restore,M but things just didn't work at all.  Finally we had to do a fresh install and=( re-configure everything...  What a pain!   Michael Austin DBA Consultant  & --------------20E48EE4E58D5E4A1CCD8F69- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;n  name="maustin.vcf"e Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit , Content-Description: Card for Michael Austin  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="maustin.vcf"=   begin:vcard  n:Austin;Michael y tel;work:704-947-1089  x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Michael Austin, Inc-
 adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 + email;internet:michaelaustininc@hotmail.comm title:Presidentu x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Michael E. Austin	 end:vcardm  ( --------------20E48EE4E58D5E4A1CCD8F69--   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:09:33 +0200o= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> # Subject: Re: Backup solution/server-) Message-ID: <39229A0D.74774FA5@gtech.com>t   Thomas nilsen wrote:9 > "Arne Vajhj" <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote in messager% > news:39227C65.6FDB9A5F@gtech.com...: > > Thomas nilsen wrote:L > > > Does anyone know of a backup solution that will run on NT/Linux and doN > > > backups of OpenVMS, Novell, NT etc? Compaq's own ABS system will only doJ > > > VMS,Unix and NT, but I need support for more systems. Anyone got any( > > > experieonce on this or any advice? > > 6 > > Very few backup systems can cover so many systems. > >t > > Have you looked at Legato ?  > N > Legato is one option, but it costs both an arm and a leg. I was hoping there > would be an alternative.   I believe you.  & And BTW I find Legato complexe to use.  B > > BTW, I think most people are so happy with standard VMS BACKUP/ > > that they only use that for backup on VMS !l > L > VMS Backup might be a good utility, but having worked with various productC > on Netware, NT and unix I find it rather odd and not that full of.M > functionality. I must admin that I have not studied VMS backup in full, but K > from what I've seen it takes a lot more to produce a complete backup of aiI > live system using VMS backup than most backup utils on other platforms.    ????   I can not see the problem.  C Create a small COM-file with 1 line with a BACKUP command per disk.w  8 Then you can start a full backup with @name-of-that-fil.  E You could also write a 4 line wrapper so it will be a self-submitting	C batch-job that f.ex. runs every nigth or every weekend or whatever.l  D That way you do not need to do anything. Except change the tapes and@ that is why I usually prefer something that is started manually.   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:28:02 GMT09 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) # Subject: Re: Backup solution/serverr+ Message-ID: <OtFOVpSoHWfH@eisner.decus.org>o  i In article <0FwU4.6278$C9.109664@news1.online.no>, "Thomas nilsen" <Thomas.Nilsen@kverneland.com> writes:f  L > VMS Backup might be a good utility, but having worked with various productC > on Netware, NT and unix I find it rather odd and not that full ofrM > functionality. I must admin that I have not studied VMS backup in full, buttK > from what I've seen it takes a lot more to produce a complete backup of a I > live system using VMS backup than most backup utils on other platforms.e  F "A live system" is indeed a challenge.  Try backing up with RetrospectB (the premier backup program on Macintosh) but changing one QuickenD Transaction between the record and the verify pass.  Retrospect willA display its version of the verification failure message you woulduC get from VMS Backup.  In either case, you are susceptible to havingtB backed up an internally inconsistent file because the change couldA just as well have happened between the data and the metadata thaty is associated with your change.o  ? Now try the same thing with two files that are associated in anmA application but without any connection in a file system.  You are ? _not_ necessarily backing up a consistent snapshot of the data.   A I am sure there are backup "products" that don't even detect such @ errors, and tell you they are backing up a consistent picture ofC a live system.  Don't believe them.  DEQ had said they were workingaF on a real consistent live backup mechanism for VMS, and then said they were starting over.3  : The one they did not want to use got sold to Microsoft :-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 11:34:02 -04006* From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com># Subject: Re: Backup solution/server<+ Message-ID: <3922BBEA.C48B91F5@rtfmcsi.com>    Thomas nilsen wrote:  H > Does anyone know of a backup solution that will run on NT/Linux and doJ > backups of OpenVMS, Novell, NT etc? Compaq's own ABS system will only doF > VMS,Unix and NT, but I need support for more systems. Anyone got any$ > experieonce on this or any advice? >N > Regards, Thomas Nilsen > Kverneland ITb  H IBM's ADSM (Adstar Distributed Storage Manager) has a backup server thatF will run on many flavors of Unix, OS/400, MVS, VM and NT.  It also hasC clients for all those platforms as well as for NetWare and OpenVMS.i  G ADSM is somewhat pricey and it can be *VERY* difficult to configure theNB software.  For example, ADSM likes to have 100% control over mediaL management and it does not generally lend itself to the typical G-F-S backupG tape rotation scheme.  Instead, it prefers to keep track of all archiveZK copies of all files that have been backed up to tape and then it only backsFH up files that have changed since the last backup and it keeps backing upJ recently changed files until it has some preset number of identical copiesK of each particular version of a file on tape.  ADSM just keeps on archivingrK files and spreading them over a pool of tapes until it is satisfied that it<J has enough identical copies of a file that it no longer needs to back thatH file up again (until the next time the file is modified).  This makes itK very difficult to take tapes out of the library for off site storage.  ThisiK also makes it very difficult to figure out exactly which tapes are required'H to restore all files on a volume as of a particular date and time as you. would do with a full image backup of a volume.  H To compound these problems, most resellers don't know squat about how toK properly plan an ADSM installation and thus you might not be fully aware of<J the total cost of the various modules and components of ADSM that would be: required to make it function per your site's requirements.  L ADSM works, but it is definitely a non-trivial exercise to get a proper plan& put together to implement the product.    E The biggest problem that you will encounter with any 3rd party backupuL package that supports OpenVMS as a client is that you cannot do a standaloneJ backup and restoration (on VAX systems) or boot from the OpenVMS CDROM (onJ Alpha systems) and restore a backup because these minimal VMS environmentsF typically don't have access to the network and are not able to run theK backup client software to perform the restoration.  To perform a bare-metalsK restore of a system you need to have your OpenVMS system disk backed up viadI VMS Backup and stored on media that you can access from a minimal OpenVMS&G installation or from standalone backup.  Once this native saveset imagesK backup is restored and your system has basic network access and can run theSL backup client software you can then use it to contact a network-based backup* server to get your other volumes restored.  I Some 3rd party backup servers might implement a scheme similar to the wayNJ that RSM works in that some sort of pseudo-device is used that is really aL network mailbox but appears to be some sort of tape or disk device.  The endK result is that an actual BACKUP command is issued on OpenVMS but the outputsF is written to a network device that routes the data stream back to theH backup server which then commits the data stream to tape or optical diskL media.  Other 3rd party backup servers use different methods to get the data( transferred to the backup server system.  G Here is one more caveat regarding network backup servers.  Bandwidth istL critical to performance of these packages.  Pay careful attention to whetherJ you are on a switched vs. repeated network segment.  Are you using 10Mbps,I 100Mpbs or 1Gbps networking?  Are there any routers in between the backupOI client and the backup server?  All of these factors can have an impact oncF how well your backup/restore operations perform.  If you have 100GB ofF application data to backup and you want to do a full backup of it on aL weekly basis and your network connection is 100Mbps then it is going to takeK a minimum of 2.22 hours.  However, if you are on a 10Mbps network then thishL will take a minimum of 22.2 hours.  These estimates assume that you get 100%E of your network bandwidth with no collisions (switched ports, no portsI contention) and that the other storage components (disk, tape) are fastereG than your network's throughput capabilities.  In reality, network-basedoF backups can run much slower than your network's rated bandwidth due to various limiting factors.=     Chuckt -- Chuck Choppu  8 ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com            http://www.rtfmcsi.com0                                   ICQ # 22321532@ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax4 Greer, SC  29651                  800 400 4935 pagerC                                   8004004935@alphapage.airtouch.como   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:18:43 +0000c From: SysAdmin <djesys@fsi.net><# Subject: Re: Backup solution/servert' Message-ID: <3922C663.2F1E96DD@fsi.net>    Thomas nilsen wrote: > H > Does anyone know of a backup solution that will run on NT/Linux and doJ > backups of OpenVMS, Novell, NT etc? Compaq's own ABS system will only doF > VMS,Unix and NT, but I need support for more systems. Anyone got any$ > experieonce on this or any advice? >  > Regards, Thomas Nilsen > Kverneland ITs  E Backing up VMS to anything other than VMS is generally not desirable,kF and typically imposes some seriously onerous demands on the network inB terms of throughput. You will also not be able to restore your VMSH systems until the "backup server" has first been restored. Generally not) considered either desirable nor reliable.    ...IMHO.   David J. Dachterae   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 07:01:58 GMT90 From: carlini@true.lkg.dec.com (Antonio Carlini)! Subject: Re: Changing the prompt!/* Message-ID: <8ftfhu$skj@usenet.pa.dec.com>  _ In article <L%dU4.109$Vr6.11273@news3.cableinet.net>, "Oberon" <Moon_io@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:n  6 >Just what I was after thanks, now to see if it works! >T  I Unfortunately (as has been pointed out in mail) it's a little mangled :-)1  K All the lines should start with a $ so that will help you to unravle it. I g8 think a few bits got corrupted along the line somewhere.  4 If I can find a way of sorting this out I'll repost.   Antonioa  I Antonio Carlini                            Mail: carlini@true.lkg.dec.comf# DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS Engineeringn6 COMPAQ                                     Reading, UK   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 07:59:45 -0400c  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com! Subject: Re: Changing the prompt!l4 Message-ID: <C22568E2.004113F4.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  F This is not working for me. It gives stuff and reverse question marks.B Of course I am using an emulator (Reflections).  Can anyone verify that it's not the code?  [I've got to get back to work.]g         Norm Raphael@ITCC  05/16/2000 03:52 PMs   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.come cc:." Subject:  Re: Changing the prompt!            7 It's not really possible to straighten these lines out.e Could you do SAY "string0" + -4                                        "string1" + --                                        <etc.>n7 so they are on shorter lines but correct as to content?         , io@cableinet.co.uk on 05/16/2000 11:42:35 AM  ) Please respond to Moon_io@cableinet.co.ukN   To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.coms cc:s" Subject:  Re: Changing the prompt!         Antonioc  5 Just what I was after thanks, now to see if it works!m   Cheers
 Mark Lawrence   ; Antonio Carlini <carlini@true.lkg.dec.com> wrote in messages$ news:8frp3j$4ai@usenet.pa.dec.com...= > In article <3920c7e8.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>,u MARTIN@RADIOGAGA.HARZ.DE wrote:p > >a% > >Oberon (io@cableinet.co.uk) wrote:n, > >: can't remember how the prompt was done. > >p > >  $ SET PROMPT="newprompt"o > >. >  >hI > But the bit you missed is that this stuff worked on VT220s and used thevJ > downloadable font feature. So you downloaded a font such that "ABC" (forL > example) in the new font would come out as a car. Then you set prompt to aG > sequence that changes to the new font, does the car (or whatever) and; changes9 > back to the normal font. > G > Then there was the "upside down" font. And a few more I've forgotten.l >tL > All of this only works on VT220s (and maybe the later VTs too if the fonts/ > look the same). It does NOT work on DECterms.5 >-I > I've included one such file below. I just cut and paste it in so it mayg haveK > become mangled by the time it reaches you. Traditionally (i.e. when I wasu sentL > one) these files would have embedded escape codes. I recall changing these soI > that I could print out the files. It looks like I have done this below,d but ifD > I've goofed - err, sorry! You'll have to smooth out the bits where unwanted  > line breaks creep in (or out). >p	 > Antonion > Reading UK >l > $! > $       DCS[0,8] = 144 > $       ESC[0,8] = 27r% > $       SAY     := WRITE SYS$OUTPUTnF > $       CLEAR   := "''ESC'[2J''ESC'[1;1H" ! ALL TERM. ATTRIBUTES OFF; > $       OFF     := "''ESC'[0m" ! ALL TERM. ATTRIBUTES OFF - > $       BOLD    := "''ESC'[1m" ! TERM. BOLD  > $!, > $       IF P1 .EQS. "" THEN GOTO NOT_VT220 > $!C > $       IF .NOT. F$GETDVI("TT:","TT_DECCRT2") THEN GOTO NOT_VT220n > $!& > $       KE_UZE = F$EDIT(P1,"UPCASE") > $! > $ PROMPT_CODES:e/ > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "BA" THEN GOTO BAROOMe. > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "CR" THEN GOTO CROWN. > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "GA" THEN GOTO GATOR/ > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "GU" THEN GOTO GUITARs. > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "PH" THEN GOTO PHONE. > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "QU" THEN GOTO QUACK/ > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "RA" THEN GOTO RAISINw. > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "SN" THEN GOTO SNOOP, > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "SU" THEN GOTO SUN/ > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "SP" THEN GOTO SPLASHa- > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "TR" THEN GOTO TREKT- > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "V2" THEN GOTO VAX2r- > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "WI" THEN GOTO WINDk. > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "WO" THEN GOTO WOODY- > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "XM" THEN GOTO XMASN/ > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "TEST" THEN GOTO TESTt5 > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "WHAT" THEN GOTO SHOW_CODESo% > $       SAY "Prompt Code Not Found"m > $       GOTO OUT > $! > $ SHOW_CODES:u' > $       SAY "Valid Prompt Codes are:"s# > $       SAY "        BA - BAROOM" " > $       SAY "        CR - CROWN"" > $       SAY "        GA - GATOR"# > $       SAY "        GU - GUITAR" " > $       SAY "        PH - PHONE"" > $       SAY "        QU - QUACK"# > $       SAY "        RA - RAISIN"2# > $       SAY "        SN - SNOOPY"h  > $       SAY "        SU - SUN"# > $       SAY "        SP - SPLASH"E+ > $       SAY "        TR - USS ENTERPRISE"=! > $       SAY "        V2 - VAX2"n( > $       SAY "        WI - WIND SURFER"& > $       SAY "        WO - WOODSTOCK"! > $       SAY "        XM - XMAS"a# > $       SAY "        TEST - TEST"  > $       SAY ""8 > $       INQUIRE/NOPUNCT PMT_CODE "Enter Prompt Code: "7 > $       IF "''PMT_CODE'" .EQS. "" THEN GOTO NOT_VT220 1 > $       KE_UZE = F$EDIT("''PMT_CODE'","UPCASE")S > $       GOTO PROMPT_CODES  > $!
 > $ CROWN:- > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"e
 > $       SAYkH > "''DCS'1;65;0{#1OggO????/??N?ACG?;???????O/??????GC;ggO?????/A@ACG???;9 > ?????Ogg/???GCA@A;O???????/CG?????G;??OggO??/CA?N????;"o
 > $       SAYtK > "?wNGgGGX/?BAAAABA;IkGKIHWG/AAAAAABA;GWgGGHYK/AAAAABAA;KIhGWGGG/AAAAABAA;c' > GgXIKIXg/AABAABAA;GGWNw???/AABAB???;"u' > $       SET PROMPT = "''ESC'(#1abcdefs > ghijkl   (B> " > $       GOTO OUT > $!
 > $ GATOR:- > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"p
 > $       SAY H > "''DCS'1;65;1{#1w{}q?_o_/???@@@@@;o___o__o/@@@@@@@@;WWoo_GWo/B??FNGGB; > wwooowwo/BBBBBBBB;"r
 > $       SAY  >mI "WWoo_GWw/B??FNGGB;{kKSSSSW/@@@BAABA;WGGWGGWK/BAABAABA;WG??????/BA??????;r   "1 > $       SET PROMPT = "''BOLD'''ESC'(#1abcddefghf   (B''OFF' ''node'> " > $       GOTO OUT > $! > $ GUITAR:;- > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"i
 > $       SAYnH > "''DCS'1;65;1{#1__??????/N???@??A;????????/??C??G??;????????/????G???;' > ????????/C???M???;????????/????????;"M
 > $       SAYnK > "????????/????????;????????/G???????;~?MMMMmM/BA?@????;MM]MMM]M/????????;- > NNMmMMMM/???????@;"e
 > $       SAY1L > "MMMM~MMM/????B???;MMMMMMMM/????????;MMMMMMMM/????????;NK[HWI[G/????????;"( > $       SET PROMPT = "''ESC'(#1abcdefg	 > hijklmn3   (B> " > $       GOTO OUT > $!
 > $ PHONE:- > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"w
 > $       SAYrH > "''DCS'1;65;1{#1________/N???N???;________/????NNNN;________/NNNN??NN; > _______?/NNNN??N?;"a
 > $       SAYhL > "??????oO/??????BA;OOOOOOo?/AM????N?;~_wooow_/?????@?A;________/AAAAAAAA;"
 > $       SAYsL > "__}_}_}_/AAAAAAAA;______~?/AAAAAAAA;??????[S/AAAAA@@@;SVOoOO^?/@@@?????;". > $       SET PROMPT = "''BOLD'''ESC'(#1abcdef > ghijkl   (B ''OFF' ''node'> "  > $       GOTO OUT > $! > $ RAISIN:t- > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"o
 > $       SAY H > "''DCS'1;65;1{#1??????_W/GGGGGM@@;SOQOPPPP/@@@@@@@@;PppPPPOQ/@?GJL@@@;' > SWO_?Ooo/@@@@MGGH;?}}}ooo?/FBJFB@??;"i
 > $       SAYeK > "^w}YYBC?/????????;?GBOcccc/EEEFFF??;cccccao@/?????FFF;GCAABAAA/EEE?????;K > ?@??????/????????;"u- > $       SET PROMPT = "''BOLD'''ESC'(#1abcdem > fghij    (B''OFF' ''node'> " > $       GOTO OUT > $!
 > $ SNOOP:- > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"t
 > $       SAY H > "''DCS'1;65;1{#1??__OOGG/??@@IIKK;CCCCGGOO/NN????II;________/????????; > ????????/HHEEAA??;"e
 > $       SAYtL > "bbVVVVJJ/@@AACCCC;EEwwEEGG/DDCCCCEE;pp@@@@@@/FFEEDDDD;????????/DDEE????;", > $       SET PROMPT = "''BOLD'''ESC'(#1abcd > efgh''esc'(B''OFF' ''node'> "  > $       GOTO OUT > $!	 > $ TREK:i- > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"s
 > $       SAYkH > "''DCS'1;65;1{#1OOooOOoo/??@@@@@@;OOooOOoo/@@@@@@@@;OOooo???/BFLG@???; > ????????/????????;"n
 > $       SAYhL > "?????___/???@@JMM;________/FBAABAAB;oogoo___/AABAABAA;_______?/BAABA@@@;"
 > $       SAYyL > "????????/????????;????????/????????;?{]]~}cc/????????;{cc{cc{c/????????;"
 > $       SAYnL > "c{ce~rr~/????????;{{{{g???/????????;????????/????????;????????/????????;") > $       SET PROMPT = "''ESC'(#1abcdefghg	 > ijklmnor   (B > "n > $       GOTO OUT > $!	 > $ VAX2:e- > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"o
 > $       SAY<H > "''DCS'1;65;1{#1wCAAAAC?/?@AAAAAA;?WcAAcW?/AAA@@AAA;?_o????o/@??@AA@?; > OO_OOOo?/??@AAA@A;" F > $       SAY "??_OO__O/A@??A@@A;????CAaQ/A???ABAA;K???????/A???????;"/ > $       SET PROMPT = "''BOLD'''ESC'(#1abcdefgo   (B> ''OFF' ''node'> " > $       GOTO OUT > $!	 > $ WIND:h- > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"m
 > $       SAY H > "''DCS'1;65;1{#1????????/????????;????????/????????;????????/????GCA@;' > _OG{????/???N????;????????/????????;"h
 > $       SAY K > "________/????????;_______o/????????;gcqbaaia/????????;aeab____/??????@A;e > __??????/@???????;" - > $       SET PROMPT = "''BOLD'''ESC'(#1abcdet > fghije   (B''OFF' ''node'> " > $       GOTO OUT > $!
 > $ WOODY:- > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"o
 > $       SAYrF > "''DCS'1;3;1{1OO__GGOO/GGCCDDEE;aa{{__OO/LL????@@;gggggg??/AACCCCDD; > ????????/CCGG????o"s
 > $       SAYsF > "''DCS'1;7;1{1CCAAHHDD/????KKBB;qqKKOO``/????????;OOOOOOOO/@@MM????; > OOGGFF??/????????o"c' > $       SET PROMPT = "''BOLD'''ESC')1a   #$%&w > '()*''esc')1   ''OFF' ''node'> " > $       GOTO OUT > $!	 > $ XMAS:c- > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"r
 > $       SAYaH > "''DCS'1;65;1{#1?????_OG/??CEL???;GO_?????/???LEC??;?cUL????/@@@@@@F?; > ????LUc?/?F@@@@@@;"t* > $       SET PROMPT = "''BOLD'''ESC'(#1ab > cd   (B ''OFF' ''node'> "  > $       GOTO OUT > $! > $ sun:- > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"s
 > $       SAYpI > "''DCS'1;65;1{#1FFFFNNNN/????????;N^^^^^~~/????????;~~~~~~~}/???@@@@@;"yF > $       SAY "}{{wwOO_/BBHKMNNN;__ooooov/NNNNNNNN;vvvvvfnn/NNNNNNNN;"F > $       SAY "^^NNFFBB/NNMKGAEM;@@????__/MNNNNNNN;___oooow/NNNNNNNN;"F > $       SAY "~~~~~~~~/FFBBBBB@;~~~~~~~~/@@@@????;~^^^^^NN/???????G;"F > $       SAY "KGBFN^^~/GKKMMNNM;~~~~~~~~/MKLLLLLL;~~~~~~~~/@@@@@???;"F > $       SAY "^^nfrwwp/@@BBFFNN;pppp````/NNNNNNNN;`@@@@@@@/NNNNNNMM;"* > $       SET PROMPT = "''ESC'(#1abcdefghi > jklmnopqrl   (B "  > $       GOTO OUT > $! > $ SPLASH:o- > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"nC > $       SAY "''DCS'1;65;1{#1W[{{[]MM/??GKKKMM;MMM][{{{/MMMMMKKL;" F > $       SAY "{{wwyzz~/NNNNNNNN;~~~~}}}}/NNNNNNNN;{{wow{{}/NNNNNNNN;"F > $       SAY "}}}}}~zz/NNNNNNNN;zzzroww{/NNNNNNNN;{{{[[[[[/NNNNNNNN;"F > $       SAY "[[WG????/NNE?????;??@@@BRr/????????;rrb`@???/???@B???;"F > $       SAY "@@BBBFFN/????????;^~~~~~~~/?@NNNNNN;~~~~~~~~/NNNNNNNN;"F > $       SAY "~~~~~^NF/NNNN@???;FBB@`oOW/????@???;WWG?@```/??EB@@@@;"" > $       SAY "`???????/????????;"* > $       SET PROMPT = "''ESC'(#1abcdefghi > jklmnopqr    (B "I > $       GOTO OUT > $! > $ BAROOM: - > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"c
 > $       SAYaI > "''DCS'1;65;1{#1}}}uuuuu/NNNKKKKK;uuuu}{K?/KKKKNFF?;_ow{meee/NNN@@@@@;"d4 > $       SAY "eem{wo_?/@@@@NNN?;_______?/@@@@@@@?;"F > $       SAY "}}}uuuuu/NNN?????;uuuu}{[?/??@BFMKG;ow{KKEEE/@BFEEKKK;"F > $       SAY "EEKK{wo?/KKEEFB@?;ow{KKEEE/@BFEEKKK;EEKK{wo?/KKEEFB@?;"F > $       SAY "}}}{wo_?/NNN?@BFN;_ow{}}}?/FB@?NNN?;??}}}}??/??LLLL??;"/ > $       SET PROMPT = "''ESC'(#1abcdefghijklmnb   (B "  > $       GOTO OUT > $!
 > $ QUACK:- > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"uC > $       SAY "''DCS'1;65;1{#1????????/?@BFNNNN;????????/NNNNNNNN;"o4 > $       SAY "????K]]]/NNNNNNNN;]]KKGGG?/NNNE????;"% > $       SET PROMPT = "''ESC'(#1abcds   (B "u > $       GOTO OUT > $!	 > $ TEST:s- > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"lC > $       SAY "''DCS'1;65;1{#1????????/?@BFNNNN;????????/NNNNNNNN;"b4 > $       SAY "????K]]]/NNNNNNNN;]]KKGGG?/NNNE????;"% > $       SET PROMPT = "''ESC'(#1abcd    (B "t > $       GOTO OUT > $! > $ NOT_VT220:9 > $       NODE = F$STRING(F$LOGICAL("SYS$NODE")-"_"-"::")i  > $       SET PROMPT="''NODE'$ " > $! > $ OUT: > $       EXIT >eK > Antonio Carlini                            Mail: carlini@true.lkg.dec.com % > DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS Engineering  > COMP   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:52:22 -0400a/ From: "Moore, John D" <john_d_moore@reyrey.com>V! Subject: RE: Changing the prompt!SJ Message-ID: <C12E81FC6CF2D211956100A0C9E0FE8B01CE6DAC@oh15ex04.reyrey.com>  F Anyone have any good 'ascii' art to share suitable for prompt strings?  9 $ SET PROMPT="''f$fao("_   /|!/\`o_O'!/ =( )=!/   U  ")'"    Ack!     > -----Original Message-----D > From:	norm.raphael@jamesbury.com [SMTP:norm.raphael@jamesbury.com]% > Sent:	Tuesday, May 16, 2000 3:53 PMe > To:	Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comn# > Subject:	Re: Changing the prompt!  >  >  > 9 > It's not really possible to straighten these lines out.s  > Could you do SAY "string0" + -6 >                                        "string1" + -/ >                                        <etc.>h9 > so they are on shorter lines but correct as to content?  >  >  >  > . > io@cableinet.co.uk on 05/16/2000 11:42:35 AM > + > Please respond to Moon_io@cableinet.co.uka >  > To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com  > cc:r$ > Subject:  Re: Changing the prompt! >  >  >  > 	 > AntonioU > 7 > Just what I was after thanks, now to see if it works!  >  > Cheers > Mark Lawrencee > = > Antonio Carlini <carlini@true.lkg.dec.com> wrote in message & > news:8frp3j$4ai@usenet.pa.dec.com...? > > In article <3920c7e8.524144494f47414741@radiogaga.harz.de>,a! > MARTIN@RADIOGAGA.HARZ.DE wrote:r > > >.' > > >Oberon (io@cableinet.co.uk) wrote:w. > > >: can't remember how the prompt was done. > > >a > > >  $ SET PROMPT="newprompt"u > > >t > >o > >hK > > But the bit you missed is that this stuff worked on VT220s and used the,L > > downloadable font feature. So you downloaded a font such that "ABC" (forL > > example) in the new font would come out as a car. Then you set prompt to > alI > > sequence that changes to the new font, does the car (or whatever) and 	 > changesk > > back to the normal font. > > I > > Then there was the "upside down" font. And a few more I've forgotten.g > >tH > > All of this only works on VT220s (and maybe the later VTs too if the > fontsh1 > > look the same). It does NOT work on DECterms.e > >uK > > I've included one such file below. I just cut and paste it in so it mayp > haveI > > become mangled by the time it reaches you. Traditionally (i.e. when If > was  > sentH > > one) these files would have embedded escape codes. I recall changing > theseu > soK > > that I could print out the files. It looks like I have done this below,  > but ifF > > I've goofed - err, sorry! You'll have to smooth out the bits where
 > unwanted" > > line breaks creep in (or out). > >2 > > Antoniot > > Reading UK > >  > > $! > > $       DCS[0,8] = 144 > > $       ESC[0,8] = 27 ' > > $       SAY     := WRITE SYS$OUTPUT H > > $       CLEAR   := "''ESC'[2J''ESC'[1;1H" ! ALL TERM. ATTRIBUTES OFF= > > $       OFF     := "''ESC'[0m" ! ALL TERM. ATTRIBUTES OFF / > > $       BOLD    := "''ESC'[1m" ! TERM. BOLDA > > $!. > > $       IF P1 .EQS. "" THEN GOTO NOT_VT220 > > $!E > > $       IF .NOT. F$GETDVI("TT:","TT_DECCRT2") THEN GOTO NOT_VT220o > > $!( > > $       KE_UZE = F$EDIT(P1,"UPCASE") > > $! > > $ PROMPT_CODES: 1 > > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "BA" THEN GOTO BAROOM 0 > > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "CR" THEN GOTO CROWN0 > > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "GA" THEN GOTO GATOR1 > > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "GU" THEN GOTO GUITARn0 > > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "PH" THEN GOTO PHONE0 > > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "QU" THEN GOTO QUACK1 > > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "RA" THEN GOTO RAISINh0 > > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "SN" THEN GOTO SNOOP. > > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "SU" THEN GOTO SUN1 > > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "SP" THEN GOTO SPLASHy/ > > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "TR" THEN GOTO TREK / > > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "V2" THEN GOTO VAX2-/ > > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "WI" THEN GOTO WIND50 > > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "WO" THEN GOTO WOODY/ > > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "XM" THEN GOTO XMASg1 > > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "TEST" THEN GOTO TEST<7 > > $       IF KE_UZE .EQS. "WHAT" THEN GOTO SHOW_CODESi' > > $       SAY "Prompt Code Not Found"I > > $       GOTO OUT > > $! > > $ SHOW_CODES: ) > > $       SAY "Valid Prompt Codes are:"a% > > $       SAY "        BA - BAROOM"h$ > > $       SAY "        CR - CROWN"$ > > $       SAY "        GA - GATOR"% > > $       SAY "        GU - GUITAR"n$ > > $       SAY "        PH - PHONE"$ > > $       SAY "        QU - QUACK"% > > $       SAY "        RA - RAISIN" % > > $       SAY "        SN - SNOOPY"o" > > $       SAY "        SU - SUN"% > > $       SAY "        SP - SPLASH" - > > $       SAY "        TR - USS ENTERPRISE"-# > > $       SAY "        V2 - VAX2"9* > > $       SAY "        WI - WIND SURFER"( > > $       SAY "        WO - WOODSTOCK"# > > $       SAY "        XM - XMAS"v% > > $       SAY "        TEST - TEST"e > > $       SAY "": > > $       INQUIRE/NOPUNCT PMT_CODE "Enter Prompt Code: "9 > > $       IF "''PMT_CODE'" .EQS. "" THEN GOTO NOT_VT220 3 > > $       KE_UZE = F$EDIT("''PMT_CODE'","UPCASE")l > > $       GOTO PROMPT_CODES  > > $! > > $ CROWN:/ > > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"  > > $       SAYnJ > > "''DCS'1;65;0{#1OggO????/??N?ACG?;???????O/??????GC;ggO?????/A@ACG???;; > > ?????Ogg/???GCA@A;O???????/CG?????G;??OggO??/CA?N????;"  > > $       SAY  > > K > "?wNGgGGX/?BAAAABA;IkGKIHWG/AAAAAABA;GWgGGHYK/AAAAABAA;KIhGWGGG/AAAAABAA;t) > > GgXIKIXg/AABAABAA;GGWNw???/AABAB???;"0) > > $       SET PROMPT = "''ESC'(#1abcdefa
 > > ghijkl > (B> " > > $       GOTO OUT > > $! > > $ GATOR:/ > > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"w > > $       SAYhJ > > "''DCS'1;65;1{#1w{}q?_o_/???@@@@@;o___o__o/@@@@@@@@;WWoo_GWo/B??FNGGB; > > wwooowwo/BBBBBBBB;"> > > $       SAYs > >sK > "WWoo_GWw/B??FNGGB;{kKSSSSW/@@@BAABA;WGGWGGWK/BAABAABA;WG??????/BA??????;a > "3 > > $       SET PROMPT = "''BOLD'''ESC'(#1abcddefgh  > (B''OFF' ''node'> " > > $       GOTO OUT > > $!
 > > $ GUITAR:r/ > > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"t > > $       SAY J > > "''DCS'1;65;1{#1__??????/N???@??A;????????/??C??G??;????????/????G???;) > > ????????/C???M???;????????/????????;"d > > $       SAYa > >CK > "????????/????????;????????/G???????;~?MMMMmM/BA?@????;MM]MMM]M/????????;p > > NNMmMMMM/???????@;"h > > $       SAYf > >dL > "MMMM~MMM/????B???;MMMMMMMM/????????;MMMMMMMM/????????;NK[HWI[G/????????;"* > > $       SET PROMPT = "''ESC'(#1abcdefg > > hijklmnf > (B> " > > $       GOTO OUT > > $! > > $ PHONE:/ > > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"e > > $       SAYOJ > > "''DCS'1;65;1{#1________/N???N???;________/????NNNN;________/NNNN??NN; > > _______?/NNNN??N?;"  > > $       SAYn > >bL > "??????oO/??????BA;OOOOOOo?/AM????N?;~_wooow_/?????@?A;________/AAAAAAAA;" > > $       SAY  > >dL > "__}_}_}_/AAAAAAAA;______~?/AAAAAAAA;??????[S/AAAAA@@@;SVOoOO^?/@@@?????;"0 > > $       SET PROMPT = "''BOLD'''ESC'(#1abcdef
 > > ghijkl > (B ''OFF' ''node'> "h > > $       GOTO OUT > > $!
 > > $ RAISIN: / > > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"  > > $       SAY J > > "''DCS'1;65;1{#1??????_W/GGGGGM@@;SOQOPPPP/@@@@@@@@;PppPPPOQ/@?GJL@@@;) > > SWO_?Ooo/@@@@MGGH;?}}}ooo?/FBJFB@??;"' > > $       SAYH > >LK > "^w}YYBC?/????????;?GBOcccc/EEEFFF??;cccccao@/?????FFF;GCAABAAA/EEE?????;E > > ?@??????/????????;" / > > $       SET PROMPT = "''BOLD'''ESC'(#1abcdeP	 > > fghijT > (B''OFF' ''node'> " > > $       GOTO OUT > > $! > > $ SNOOP:/ > > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"E > > $       SAYAJ > > "''DCS'1;65;1{#1??__OOGG/??@@IIKK;CCCCGGOO/NN????II;________/????????; > > ????????/HHEEAA??;"  > > $       SAYO > >OL > "bbVVVVJJ/@@AACCCC;EEwwEEGG/DDCCCCEE;pp@@@@@@/FFEEDDDD;????????/DDEE????;". > > $       SET PROMPT = "''BOLD'''ESC'(#1abcd! > > efgh''esc'(B''OFF' ''node'> "F > > $       GOTO OUT > > $! > > $ TREK: / > > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"  > > $       SAY J > > "''DCS'1;65;1{#1OOooOOoo/??@@@@@@;OOooOOoo/@@@@@@@@;OOooo???/BFLG@???; > > ????????/????????;"E > > $       SAY  > > L > "?????___/???@@JMM;________/FBAABAAB;oogoo___/AABAABAA;_______?/BAABA@@@;" > > $       SAY  > >KL > "????????/????????;????????/????????;?{]]~}cc/????????;{cc{cc{c/????????;" > > $       SAYK > > L > "c{ce~rr~/????????;{{{{g???/????????;????????/????????;????????/????????;"+ > > $       SET PROMPT = "''ESC'(#1abcdefghO > > ijklmno 	 > (B > "P > > $       GOTO OUT > > $! > > $ VAX2: / > > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"p > > $       SAY J > > "''DCS'1;65;1{#1wCAAAAC?/?@AAAAAA;?WcAAcW?/AAA@@AAA;?_o????o/@??@AA@?; > > OO_OOOo?/??@AAA@A;"AH > > $       SAY "??_OO__O/A@??A@@A;????CAaQ/A???ABAA;K???????/A???????;"1 > > $       SET PROMPT = "''BOLD'''ESC'(#1abcdefg  > (B> ''OFF' ''node'> " > > $       GOTO OUT > > $! > > $ WIND: / > > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"  > > $       SAY J > > "''DCS'1;65;1{#1????????/????????;????????/????????;????????/????GCA@;) > > _OG{????/???N????;????????/????????;"E > > $       SAY  > > K > "________/????????;_______o/????????;gcqbaaia/????????;aeab____/??????@A;  > > __??????/@???????;" / > > $       SET PROMPT = "''BOLD'''ESC'(#1abcde 	 > > fghij: > (B''OFF' ''node'> " > > $       GOTO OUT > > $! > > $ WOODY:/ > > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"  > > $       SAY_H > > "''DCS'1;3;1{1OO__GGOO/GGCCDDEE;aa{{__OO/LL????@@;gggggg??/AACCCCDD; > > ????????/CCGG????o"1 > > $       SAY?H > > "''DCS'1;7;1{1CCAAHHDD/????KKBB;qqKKOO``/????????;OOOOOOOO/@@MM????; > > OOGGFF??/????????o"?) > > $       SET PROMPT = "''BOLD'''ESC')1I > #$%&A > > '()*''esc')1 > ''OFF' ''node'> " > > $       GOTO OUT > > $! > > $ XMAS:;/ > > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"h > > $       SAY J > > "''DCS'1;65;1{#1?????_OG/??CEL???;GO_?????/???LEC??;?cUL????/@@@@@@F?; > > ????LUc?/?F@@@@@@;" , > > $       SET PROMPT = "''BOLD'''ESC'(#1ab > > cd > (B ''OFF' ''node'> "w > > $       GOTO OUT > > $!
 > > $ sun:/ > > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"W > > $       SAYrK > > "''DCS'1;65;1{#1FFFFNNNN/????????;N^^^^^~~/????????;~~~~~~~}/???@@@@@;"eH > > $       SAY "}{{wwOO_/BBHKMNNN;__ooooov/NNNNNNNN;vvvvvfnn/NNNNNNNN;"H > > $       SAY "^^NNFFBB/NNMKGAEM;@@????__/MNNNNNNN;___oooow/NNNNNNNN;"H > > $       SAY "~~~~~~~~/FFBBBBB@;~~~~~~~~/@@@@????;~^^^^^NN/???????G;"H > > $       SAY "KGBFN^^~/GKKMMNNM;~~~~~~~~/MKLLLLLL;~~~~~~~~/@@@@@???;"H > > $       SAY "^^nfrwwp/@@BBFFNN;pppp````/NNNNNNNN;`@@@@@@@/NNNNNNMM;", > > $       SET PROMPT = "''ESC'(#1abcdefghi
 > > jklmnopqr? > (B "  > > $       GOTO OUT > > $!
 > > $ SPLASH:m/ > > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'":E > > $       SAY "''DCS'1;65;1{#1W[{{[]MM/??GKKKMM;MMM][{{{/MMMMMKKL;"DH > > $       SAY "{{wwyzz~/NNNNNNNN;~~~~}}}}/NNNNNNNN;{{wow{{}/NNNNNNNN;"H > > $       SAY "}}}}}~zz/NNNNNNNN;zzzroww{/NNNNNNNN;{{{[[[[[/NNNNNNNN;"H > > $       SAY "[[WG????/NNE?????;??@@@BRr/????????;rrb`@???/???@B???;"H > > $       SAY "@@BBBFFN/????????;^~~~~~~~/?@NNNNNN;~~~~~~~~/NNNNNNNN;"H > > $       SAY "~~~~~^NF/NNNN@???;FBB@`oOW/????@???;WWG?@```/??EB@@@@;"$ > > $       SAY "`???????/????????;", > > $       SET PROMPT = "''ESC'(#1abcdefghi
 > > jklmnopqr  > (B "6 > > $       GOTO OUT > > $!
 > > $ BAROOM:P/ > > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"B > > $       SAY K > > "''DCS'1;65;1{#1}}}uuuuu/NNNKKKKK;uuuu}{K?/KKKKNFF?;_ow{meee/NNN@@@@@;"?6 > > $       SAY "eem{wo_?/@@@@NNN?;_______?/@@@@@@@?;"H > > $       SAY "}}}uuuuu/NNN?????;uuuu}{[?/??@BFMKG;ow{KKEEE/@BFEEKKK;"H > > $       SAY "EEKK{wo?/KKEEFB@?;ow{KKEEE/@BFEEKKK;EEKK{wo?/KKEEFB@?;"H > > $       SAY "}}}{wo_?/NNN?@BFN;_ow{}}}?/FB@?NNN?;??}}}}??/??LLLL??;"1 > > $       SET PROMPT = "''ESC'(#1abcdefghijklmn  > (B "/ > > $       GOTO OUT > > $! > > $ QUACK:/ > > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"OE > > $       SAY "''DCS'1;65;1{#1????????/?@BFNNNN;????????/NNNNNNNN;" 6 > > $       SAY "????K]]]/NNNNNNNN;]]KKGGG?/NNNE????;"' > > $       SET PROMPT = "''ESC'(#1abcd{ > (B "o > > $       GOTO OUT > > $! > > $ TEST:?/ > > $       IF P2 .NES. "1" THEN SAY "''CLEAR'"?E > > $       SAY "''DCS'1;65;1{#1????????/?@BFNNNN;????????/NNNNNNNN;" 6 > > $       SAY "????K]]]/NNNNNNNN;]]KKGGG?/NNNE????;"' > > $       SET PROMPT = "''ESC'(#1abcd  > (B "n > > $       GOTO OUT > > $! > > $ NOT_VT220:; > > $       NODE = F$STRING(F$LOGICAL("SYS$NODE")-"_"-"::")'" > > $       SET PROMPT="''NODE'$ " > > $!
 > > $ OUT: > > $       EXIT > > 4 > > Antonio Carlini                            Mail: > carlini@true.lkg.dec.com' > > DECnet-Plus for OpenVMS Engineering@
 > > COMPAQ >  >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:42:05 +0000  From: SysAdmin <djesys@fsi.net>15 Subject: Re: Compaq Bets Big on New Web Servers (WSJ) ' Message-ID: <3922BDCD.DFC89F80@fsi.net>1   itjck01@my-deja.com wrote: > E > I think, if anyone is interested in a more accurate line item list,? > E*Trade is getting:? > G > GS160                           4 - 12proc./32gb                $5.4M?G > GS140                           3 - 8 proc./16gb                $2.7M G > DS20                            10                              $726k G > ES40                            1                               $177k"G > EV67 Boards                     12                              $576k?G > ESA 12000                       8 - 6 TB                        $5.2MSG > ES40 Cab.                       Inc.                            $127k? > H >                                                     Total       $14.9M  > Do you happen to know if any of those will be running OpenVMS?   David J. Dachtera1   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 17:03:41 GMT? From: itjck01@my-deja.com?5 Subject: Re: Compaq Bets Big on New Web Servers (WSJ)T) Message-ID: <8fujcv$hmf$1@nnrp1.deja.com>'  ' In article <3922BDCD.DFC89F80@fsi.net>,u%   djesys.nospam@fsi.net.mapson wrote:" > itjck01@my-deja.com wrote: > >SG > > I think, if anyone is interested in a more accurate line item list,  > > E*Trade is getting:N > >oB > > GS160                           4 - 12proc./32gb         $5.4MB > > GS140                           3 - 8 proc./16gb         $2.7MB > > DS20                            10                       $726kB > > ES40                            1                        $177kB > > EV67 Boards                     12                       $576kB > > ESA 12000                       8 - 6 TB                 $5.2MB > > ES40 Cab.                       Inc.                     $127k > > C > >                                              Total       $14.9M  > @ > Do you happen to know if any of those will be running OpenVMS? >  > David J. DachteraN >N  C I got the impression it was most if not all of them, but I could be?F wrong.  It was not something I was thinking of at the time and did notF jot it down in my notes, since I was trying to get ballpark pricing on  these new systems for budgeting.   :) jck    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.'   ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 15:10:27 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)% Subject: Re: comparative TCP/IP tests1, Message-ID: <8fucp3$ptm@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  _ In article <39201F32.107CBB25@trailing-edge.com>, Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> writes:u >}C >OK, I looked the graphs, and read AAAREADME.TXT, but I still don't{> >understand what the X or Y axis on the graphs represent.  Can? >you fill me in?  Is it some sort of throughput vs packet size?=  F It's a bidirectional test of throughput for data buffers of increasingJ sizes.  The Y axis is log(throughput) where 100M is a maxed out 100 BaseT,E the X axis is the size of the data buffer transferred (not the packetNI size).  The actual code that does the writing is in the file TCP.C in the @ function SendData().  The 64k limit shows up at this structure.        while (bytesLeft > 0 &&A?            (bytesWritten = write(p->commfd, q, bytesLeft)) > 0)        {?"         bytesLeft -= bytesWritten;         q += bytesWritten;       }      if (bytesWritten == -1)T       { G         printf("NetPIPE: write: error encountered, errno=%d\n", errno);          exit(401);       }$ }   J When bytesleft > 64k, byteswritten comes back as -1.  I don't know if thisJ limit comes from write() or from within the TCP/IP stacks. It appears thatI on Unix systems this write() correctly writes the largest chunk available J and then goes back for more.  On OpenVMS, when it is told to write too bigI an area it fails.  This looks like a bug to me - it should write out MAX 5< bytes and then return that value so that write can go again.  K Can somebody from Compaq or Process please comment on this bit of code and    why it fails at 64K for OpenVMS?   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduP? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech P   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:03:27 GMT - From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)t% Subject: Re: comparative TCP/IP testsY, Message-ID: <3922c26a.10665556@news.wku.edu>  A On 17 May 2000 15:10:27 GMT, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (Davidt Mathog) wrote:  L >Can somebody from Compaq or Process please comment on this bit of code and ! >why it fails at 64K for OpenVMS?  > E For the exact reason you mentioned once before---the $QIO limit.  TheiE write() function doesn't try to split it up, it just passes the write B request on to the BG device via $QIO, which rejects the >64K size.F Should it split it up and do multiple calls?  Perhaps, but it doesn't.     Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/a; goathunter@Goatley.com      http://www2.wku.edu/www/hunter/A< Check out Dangerous Dwarf:  http://www2.wku.edu/www/chesbro/   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:39:35 GMTa% From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com> % Subject: Re: CPU Temperature from DCLs) Message-ID: <8ftpcm$ja4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>u  ) In article <39216D7E.A9E49CB7@bbc.co.uk>,o    tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk wrote:E > when WILL people stop talking farenheit, it confuses me these days.s  , Might be a job there for you at NASA then :)  C But we live in a country which measures tyre pressure in PSI, sells ? petrol by the litre, has speed limits in miles per hour, weighs.A its food in metric but weighs itself in imperial. Just as well weo don't launch any probes...  = A German tourist was stopped on the M90 north of Edinburgh ato: 95 mph. Claimed that he thought the sign M90 indicated the< speed limit in mph and that he was only marginally above it.  # Don't think the judge believed him.n --
 Alan Greig    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:59:44 +0100t- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> % Subject: Re: CPU Temperature from DCLy) Message-ID: <392297C0.916F2282@bbc.co.uk>    Alan Greig wrote:b  @ >  A German tourist was stopped on the M90 north of Edinburgh at< > 95 mph. Claimed that he thought the sign M90 indicated the> > speed limit in mph and that he was only marginally above it. >"  :  hmmm, well I do believe the speed limit is to low, should< be 100 mph with serious penalties for anything above it. Oh,; and lorries only on the inside lane => no lorry overtaking.F --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:09:38 +0200R, From: Paul McCabe <paul.mccabe@cognotec.com>< Subject: Creating a new user using a system service...HOW???8 Message-ID: <01BFC01A.8987BC00.paul.mccabe@cognotec.com>  K Has anyone out there know of a way to create a new user in the UAF using a O system service.   L Our application currently creates users using a spawn to a command file and K running authorize.  It has worked perfectly for years.  Now our clients do KH not wish to give this process SYSPRV any more, they only want grpprv on I these accounts.  We have tried using SETUAI but it doesn't seem to allow K creation of users.  @ Any ideas? (safe ones! - downtime of any kind is intolerable!!!)   Environment is Alpha 7.2    
 Thanks a lot,_   Paul.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:30:00 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> @ Subject: Re: Creating a new user using a system service...HOW???) Message-ID: <3922ACE8.68FF3D90@gtech.com>    Paul McCabe wrote:L > Has anyone out there know of a way to create a new user in the UAF using a > system service.  > M > Our application currently creates users using a spawn to a command file and L > running authorize.  It has worked perfectly for years.  Now our clients doI > not wish to give this process SYSPRV any more, they only want grpprv on J > these accounts.  We have tried using SETUAI but it doesn't seem to allow > creation of users. > B > Any ideas? (safe ones! - downtime of any kind is intolerable!!!) >  > Environment is Alpha 7.2  : AFAIK there are no supported way of creating a user from a program.  > But I do not understand the reason for the change. You can not- create a new username without SYSPRV. Period.   5 If you want to add a user without spawning/submittingS3 something that runs authorize, then SYSUAF.DAT is a1@ standard index-seuqential file and records can be read and added via RMS calls.  < And I would definattely *NOT* recommend this on an important8 production system unless you test it really well first !   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:51:04 -0500=, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>@ Subject: Re: Creating a new user using a system service...HOW???> Message-ID: <hshubs-8B75A8.09510417052000@news.mindspring.com>  6 In article <3922ACE8.68FF3D90@gtech.com>, Arne Vajhoj  <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote:   = >And I would definattely *NOT* recommend this on an importantA9 >production system unless you test it really well first !O  H And recheck it any time there's a system upgrade.  Perhaps have it know # about various versions of the file.N   --   Howard S Shubs, the Denim Adept    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:57:27 -0400G" From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org>@ Subject: Re: Creating a new user using a system service...HOW???8 Message-ID: <4.3.1.0.20000517105158.01f04a50@24.8.96.48>  - At 04:09 PM 5/17/00 +0200, Paul McCabe wrote:~K >Has anyone out there know of a way to create a new user in the UAF using a  >system service. >SL >Our application currently creates users using a spawn to a command file andK >running authorize.  It has worked perfectly for years.  Now our clients do'H >not wish to give this process SYSPRV any more, they only want grpprv onI >these accounts.  We have tried using SETUAI but it doesn't seem to allow/ >creation of users.?  1 LIB$SPAWN is it. (Well, $CREPRC will work too...)_  J The only supported way to create a new user is via the AUTHORIZE utility. L There are a variety of ways to handle it, but that's what it boils down to. = The process that does this will *also* require SYSPRV or the  L equivalent--you need write-access to the SYSUAF to create an account, which & pretty much opens the world wide open.  J You could build a well-audited and trusted executable that gets INSTALLed C with privs to minimize the exposure, or set up some sort of DECNet /, task-to-task thing that creates the account.   					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"------------------- 2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and even{;                                       teddy bears get drunk    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 17:45:51 +0200/, From: Paul McCabe <paul.mccabe@cognotec.com>@ Subject: RE: Creating a new user using a system service...HOW???8 Message-ID: <01BFC028.34B00940.paul.mccabe@cognotec.com>   Thanks a lot Arne,  H We know that sysprv is needed to access the UAF but we had thought that K because SETUAI allows modifications on a group level (via grpprv) we could  ( create users under the requestors group.  L Our backup plan is to install the image with sysprv, not ideal but a little L bit safer than Hacking the SYSUAF (Which this poster has managed to corrupt 6 on numerous occasions in the interests of testing....)     Regards,   Paul.?   - -----Original Message-----
 From:	Arne% Sent:	Wednesday, May 17, 2000 4:30 PM  To:	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComO@ Subject:	Re: Creating a new user using a system service...HOW???   Paul McCabe wrote:K > Has anyone out there know of a way to create a new user in the UAF using ? a@ > system service.@ >@J > Our application currently creates users using a spawn to a command file  and J > running authorize.  It has worked perfectly for years.  Now our clients  doI > not wish to give this process SYSPRV any more, they only want grpprv onYJ > these accounts.  We have tried using SETUAI but it doesn't seem to allow > creation of users. >GB > Any ideas? (safe ones! - downtime of any kind is intolerable!!!) >  > Environment is Alpha 7.2  : AFAIK there are no supported way of creating a user from a program.  > But I do not understand the reason for the change. You can not- create a new username without SYSPRV. Period.   5 If you want to add a user without spawning/submittingY3 something that runs authorize, then SYSUAF.DAT is a_@ standard index-seuqential file and records can be read and added via RMS calls.  < And I would definattely *NOT* recommend this on an important8 production system unless you test it really well first !   Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 17:08:57 GMT> From: danny_erres@my-deja.com!2 Subject: crystal clear vms filesystem from nt side) Message-ID: <8fujmq$hr6$1@nnrp1.deja.com>1  / hello everybody , i will start by saying that i?) speak the "ls -la" language and not "show . mount /all" (i think it goes like that) . i am0 looking for a tool that will gain me the ability1 to "see" a vms filesystem from NT and mount it (iS, am going to backup it) . what should i use ?. nfs , pathworks , samba or other tools i don't1 really familiar with . one major thing is that asN/ i know vms file attributes are very detailed so / is there any tool out there that will keep/haveo. all the atrributes and protection although its NTFS ???  1 i am open for suggestion but keep in mind that my^/ major need is to backup the vms filesystem with + NT tools without damaging the vms data (andl' metadata) so i can restore it perfectly      Regardsd    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy..   ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 13:30:55 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)l Subject: Re: Debug problem5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-rfVK3MEYXgNn@localhost>   F On Sun, 16 May 3900 14:45:16, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>  wrote:   > DBG> set source disk:[dir] > E > If you get bored typing it, drop it in a file and point the logicale > DBG$INIT at the file.e  C If the SET SOURCE doesn't work, just check that it is  your module d= that it can't find the source for. I _seem_ to remember that  F occasionally it will give you the error message because it cannot openF or expand/extract one of the include or header files. If you start to @ step through the module, one's own source appears in the source  window!.   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:22:14 -0400r  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com Subject: Re: DEFINE ?-4 Message-ID: <C22568E2.0043260D.00@jklh21.valmet.com>   /Please respond to hammond@not   /To:  Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comn /cc:   ( /Subject: Re: DEFINE ? /.5 /In article <C22568DD.005DC081.00@jklh21.valmet.com>,o# /norm.raphael@jamesbury.com writes:  /aE />Version ";0" is the default for version ";" and is the most recent. F />Version ";-0" is the earliest.  Version ";-1" is the one just before />the most recent, etc.h /wK /There appears to be an implicit assumption in the above that file versionssD /are in cronolgical order.  This is the "normal" case, but it is notK /necessarily so.  For example, RENAME can re-set file versions so that they % /are no longer in cronological order.n /s5 Agreed.  I said "most recent" when I should have saidsC "highest version-numbered", etc.  It has also been pointed out that H ";0" will bypass installed, known files checking while ";" will not, andF that this is either a feature or a bug depending on what one wants and what the application expects..  3 Ordering by (one of the) date(s) is another thread.e   ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 13:30:53 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)l Subject: RE: DEFINE ? 5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-qyFfk0WliVM7@localhost>h  F On Thu, 1 Jan 1970 01:59:59, Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com> wrote:  L > Are you saying that if I have foo.tmp;5 edit it and exit to foo.tmp;1 that> > the ;0 will return ;1 not ;5 an the ;-0 will return;5 not ;1 > Hmmm  & > Terry Scratches his head and smiles   D Confusion through imprecision is a wonderful thing :-) For the poor E bloke who asked the question in the first place, ';0' will force RMS dE to act upon the _highest_ version number available. Usually, this is iA the most recently created chronologically speaking but there are gD various means by which time-stamp and version number can be 'out of  step'.  "   e.g. $ copy foo.tmp;3 sys$login:  E when SYS$LOGIN:FOO.TMP;20 already exists with an earlier time-stamp. n VMS does warn you tho'.r  F Occasionally, you do get the odd person who loves to RENAME everythingB back to version ;1 just because 'it looks tidier', not knowing or F forgetting that various amounts of useful tracability information get E lost, or become misleading. when you do this. Oops this in danger of 1 becoming a rant...  . Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 13:41:03 GMT From: rwa@bragg.bio.purdue.edu! Subject: DFOR$ALLOC_ALLOCATABLE64 - Message-ID: <8fu7hf$9ec$1@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>i   Hi -  F I've got two different machines both running VMS 7.1.  Now I've copiedF the same source code to both machines and they both compile fine.  One/ links fine but the other one complains of this:-  % %LINK-W-NUDFSYMS, 1 undefined symbol:20 %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         DFOR$ALLOC_ALLOCATABLE64F %LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol DFOR$ALLOC_ALLOCATABLE64 referenced)         in psect $LINK$ offset %X000000404C         in module INFO file CALVIN$USER:[RWA.DEV.PFT3DR]EM3DR.OBJ;6   H Is there enough information in the above to tell what I'm doing wrong???   THANKS SO MUCH for any help!!!   Robs rwa@baker1.bio.purdue.eduo   ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 13:54:39 GMT From: rwa@bragg.bio.purdue.edu% Subject: Re: DFOR$ALLOC_ALLOCATABLE64e- Message-ID: <8fu8av$9oh$1@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>e  L Ooops - Just found out the machine where it doesn't link is VMS 7.2-1  This  might make a big difference??? ???w   Rob. rwa@baker1.bio.purdue.eduw -------aN In article <8fu7hf$9ec$1@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>, rwa@bragg.bio.purdue.edu writes: >Hi -  > G >I've got two different machines both running VMS 7.1.  Now I've copiedqG >the same source code to both machines and they both compile fine.  Onec0 >links fine but the other one complains of this: > & >%LINK-W-NUDFSYMS, 1 undefined symbol:1 >%LINK-I-UDFSYM,         DFOR$ALLOC_ALLOCATABLE64iG >%LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol DFOR$ALLOC_ALLOCATABLE64 referencedt* >        in psect $LINK$ offset %X00000040D >        in module INFO file CALVIN$USER:[RWA.DEV.PFT3DR]EM3DR.OBJ;6 >-I >Is there enough information in the above to tell what I'm doing wrong???r >  >THANKS SO MUCH for any help!!!b >s >Rob >rwa@baker1.bio.purdue.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:13:26 +0100 * From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>% Subject: Re: DFOR$ALLOC_ALLOCATABLE64>+ Message-ID: <8fu9e4$h6a@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>s  S <rwa@bragg.bio.purdue.edu> wrote in message news:8fu7hf$9ec$1@mozo.cc.purdue.edu...s > Hi - >,H > I've got two different machines both running VMS 7.1.  Now I've copiedH > the same source code to both machines and they both compile fine.  One1 > links fine but the other one complains of this:  > ' > %LINK-W-NUDFSYMS, 1 undefined symbol:s2 > %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         DFOR$ALLOC_ALLOCATABLE64  J > Is there enough information in the above to tell what I'm doing wrong???  D Well the DFOR prefix, I presume is reserved for Fortran. So, I guessD some problem with the runtime library. There are some updates to the6 RTL that shipped with various updates to the compiler.  E If you shipped source around and compiled and linked then it's eithereC a bug or a corrupted installation. Check the dates and installation @ history on the Fortran RTLs. Sounds depressingly like the common DLL problems with Windows.   ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 14:19:50 GMT From: rwa@bragg.bio.purdue.edu% Subject: Re: DFOR$ALLOC_ALLOCATABLE64,- Message-ID: <8fu9q6$a4p$1@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>W  . Thanks for the assist!!! I'll check ity out!!!   Rob  ------X In article <8fu9e4$h6a@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>, "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> writes: >iT ><rwa@bragg.bio.purdue.edu> wrote in message news:8fu7hf$9ec$1@mozo.cc.purdue.edu... >> Hi -  >>I >> I've got two different machines both running VMS 7.1.  Now I've copiedeI >> the same source code to both machines and they both compile fine.  Oneg2 >> links fine but the other one complains of this: >>( >> %LINK-W-NUDFSYMS, 1 undefined symbol:3 >> %LINK-I-UDFSYM,         DFOR$ALLOC_ALLOCATABLE64  > K >> Is there enough information in the above to tell what I'm doing wrong???n >sE >Well the DFOR prefix, I presume is reserved for Fortran. So, I guess-E >some problem with the runtime library. There are some updates to theo7 >RTL that shipped with various updates to the compiler.e >gF >If you shipped source around and compiled and linked then it's eitherD >a bug or a corrupted installation. Check the dates and installationA >history on the Fortran RTLs. Sounds depressingly like the commonl >DLL problems with Windows." >v >f   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 11:13:09 -0400u, From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@compaq.com>% Subject: Re: DFOR$ALLOC_ALLOCATABLE64r8 Message-ID: <nld5iss43at89jk01sq04mc1oeo7jj7k92@4ax.com>  < On 17 May 2000 13:41:03 GMT, rwa@bragg.bio.purdue.edu wrote:   > G >I've got two different machines both running VMS 7.1.  Now I've copiediG >the same source code to both machines and they both compile fine.  Onew0 >links fine but the other one complains of this: >N& >%LINK-W-NUDFSYMS, 1 undefined symbol:1 >%LINK-I-UDFSYM,         DFOR$ALLOC_ALLOCATABLE64 G >%LINK-W-USEUNDEF, undefined symbol DFOR$ALLOC_ALLOCATABLE64 referenced * >        in psect $LINK$ offset %X00000040D >        in module INFO file CALVIN$USER:[RWA.DEV.PFT3DR]EM3DR.OBJ;6  D As explained in the Fortran kit's documentation, you need to install? the FORRTL kit provided on other systems where you want to link  Fortran applications.?  9 This won't be necessary as of the next VMS release (7.3?)@    - Steve Lionel (mailto:Steve.Lionel@compaq.com)N Fortran Engineering~& Compaq Computer Corporation, Nashua NH  6 Compaq Fortran web site: http://www.compaq.com/fortran   ------------------------------  , Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:44:24 +0200 (CEST): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>1 Subject: Duplicated messages: are only I see it ?1J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10005170842050.6504-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  2  Starting from 9'may have get duplicated messages.0  Roughly EVERY mail from info-vax have 2 time :]"  Anyone also see that behaviour ??    Regards - Gotfryd   --E =====================================================================BF $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME . $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================?   ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 07:28:52 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)5 Subject: Re: Duplicated messages: are only I see it ? . Message-ID: <8fthnk$nam$4@info.service.rug.nl>  
 In articleH <Pine.LNX.4.10.10005170842050.6504-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>, "Gotfryd4 Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl> writes:   3 > Starting from 9'may have get duplicated messages.(1 > Roughly EVERY mail from info-vax have 2 time :]:# > Anyone also see that behaviour ??A  C I read this in the newsgroup, not the mailing list.  However, when  G someone from the mailing list emails me a personal reply, I always get   that twice.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:52:26 -0400O2 From: "William Hymen" <t18_pilot@hotmail.spam.com> Subject: Re: EDT macros17 Message-ID: <1XAU4.94916$VR.1811093@news5.giganews.com>t  0 Terry,  I have the following defined on one line+ the last command  ... ext time is the macrot* named time which does substitutions on the current line for am and pm.i8 This sequence will give you something like what you need, My actual edt command lives inside a command. file called editor.com, and based upon morning* or afternoon, my "time" macro will convert to am or pm string.0. I'm constantly amazed at how much I don't know, about EDT, based upon what I am seeing here.  ) define key cont p as "ADVI ^ZBLD+ELI(LAST"5 EDIT^ZDATE7-CDCI.^Z2C4D+CI)^Z23-C'200'D+CD+CEXTTIME."   @ PS - edt is in such demand that several companies have converted	 it to DOS    Bill    : Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com> wrote in messageG news:1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213019AEE1A@seantexch.unitedad.com...  Adrian,   I  That is similar to mine edtini.edt but  I throw my help file to a buffer  called helptG It is also the same file that I have a symbol define as loc*ate == "sea  TLM:TERRYS.NOTES"@  I Here are some others that I have in my edtini with these I seldom have to- use tpu for program editingc    . ( press pf1 then down arrow, prompts you for )% ( a filename to download a buffer to) 8 Def K G 13 As "Ext Wr ?*'Output file: ' =?*' Buffer: '."  . ( press pf1 then up arrow, prompts you for a ) ( file to upload to a buffer) 8 Def K G 12 As "Ext Inc ?*'Input file: ' =?*' Buffer: '."    3 (press pf1 then M  Returns you to the main buffer )/ Def K G M As "Ext F=Main.."   < ( pf1 then B prompts you for a buffer and moves you to it. )F ( I like this better than tpu split screens because you have many more buffers)# Def K G B As "Ext F=?*'Buffer: '.."   3 ( press pf1 then H puts my help file in buffer help @ Def K G H As "Ext find = HELP.;delete 1:1000;include  =HELP  ;."  L ( pf1 then D inserts date and time great for documenting changes as you go )   Def K G D As "Date."  " ( pf1 right arrow and left arrow )# Def K G 14 As "EXT set screen 132."i" Def K G 15 As "ext set screen 80."   Def K G Q As "Ext Quit/Save."t Def K G S As "Ext Sh Buffer."t Def K G Con Z As "Ext Ex."!!    I These are the main ones I use but for box cutting , large file edits, andg* learn sequences there is nothing like tpu.  H Does anyone know how to define a gold key  C as  that will insert some aJ line line of text and the date and time  ( example: $! Changed by Terry on+ 16-MAY-2000 14:40:08) .This has me stumped.M   Terryu       -----Original Message-----1 From: Adrian Lumsden [mailto:A.Lumsden@xdt.co.uk] # Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 3:18 AMg To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comp Subject: Re: EDT macrost  L Here's a sample from my EDTSYS.EDT. I got fed up with looking up the numbersI for the function and keypad keys so I wrote this. The idea is that you doe "GOLD H"I and it fetches up help from KEYHLP.HLB. This draws a keyboard map on yourtA screen. Note that you'll need to convert the KEYHLP.HLP to a .HLB(6 (LIBR /CREAT/HELP KEYHLP.HLB KEYHLP.HLP). Don't forgetC to replace the <ESC>, <CTL-N> and <CTL-O> with the real characters.e   Adrian     EDTSYS.EDT extract:r  
     <snip>&     define key gold h as 'ext keyhlp.'
     <snip>     find =keyhlp"     i ;set help XDT$SYS:KEYHLP.HLB     i ;help      i ;set helpW     find =main.>     define macro keyhlp0  
 KEYHLP.HLP   1 HELP <ESC>)0<ESC>[H<ESC>[2J:                      VT220 Keypad and Function Key Numbers:                      ===================================== <CTL-N>,G              lqqwqqwqqwqqwqqk  lqqwqqwqqwqqk  lqqwqqqqqk  lqqwqqwqqwqqktG              x17x18x19x20x21x  x23x24x25x26x  x28x  29 x  x31x32x33x34x G              mqqvqqvqqvqqvqqj  mqqvqqvqqvqqj  mqqvqqqqqj  mqqvqqvqqvqqjy <CTL-O>s?                                               <CTL-N>lqqwqqwqqkg lqqwqqwqqwqqk<CTL-O>? DEFINE KEY requires a key number as input.    <CTL-N>x 1x 2x 3xi x20x10x11x17x<CTL-O>?                                               <CTL-N>tqqnqqnqqus tqqnqqnqqnqqu<CTL-O>H VT220 function keys are defined by using      <CTL-N>x 4x 5x 6x  x 7x 8x 9x18x<CTL-O>? DEFINE KEY [GOLD] FUNCTION key_number AS ...  <CTL-N>mqqnqqnqqjg tqqnqqnqqnqqu<CTL-O>H                                                  <CTL-N>x12x     x 4x 5x 6x19x<CTL-O>? Cursor and keypad keys are defined using      <CTL-N>lqqnqqnqqkt tqqnqqnqqnqqu<CTL-O>K DEFINE KEY [GOLD] key_number AS ...           <CTL-N>x15x13x14x  x 1x 2x 3x. x<CTL-O>?                                               <CTL-N>mqqvqqvqqjl tqqvqqnqqu21x<CTL-O>K                                                           <CTL-N>x  0  x16x  x<CTL-O>   <CTL-N>mqqqqqvqqvqqj<CTL-O>e --( Adrian Lumsden, XDT Computer Systems, UK" A dot Lumsden at xdt dot co dot uk  5 Phillip Helbig <helbig@astro.rug.nl> wrote in messages( news:8fpnm8$h62$1@info.service.rug.nl...H > OK, I STILL haven't gotten around to using TPU.  It's still on my listJ > of things to do, honest.  (My main reason for this is to be able to makeI > use of LSE, but folks keep saying it will have other benefits as well.)p >wE > I've only found two real disadvantages with EDT---the 255 characterdH > limit, and the inability to save the file one is working on.  After myJ > .sig is a fix for the second problem---just use the .COM file instead of@ > EDT directly.  (The lack of an "undo" feature might be a thirdG > disadvantage; I'm still looking into something which manipulates .JOUt	 > files!)W > F > I have lots of macros, using no keypad mode (I think that's the one;I > INSERT; and stuff like that).  However, most of these are variations oneH > a theme and I really don't know that much about them.  I think in lineJ > mode---the stuff one can type in at the prompt.  If I have a sequence ofB > commands which will do the right thing in a .EDT file, how can I@ > transform these into a macro which I can call from within EDT?    5 *****************************************************     5 ***************************************************** 4 Any views or opinions are solely those of the author) and do not necessarily represent those of- United News& Media.M5 ***************************************************** 4 The information transmitted is intended only for the1 person or entity to which it is addressed and mayn3 contain confidential and/or privileged material. Ifb3 you are not the intended recipient of this message, . please do not read, copy, use or disclose this3 communication and notify the sender immediately. It 0 should be noted that any review, retransmission,2 dissemination or other use of, or taking action in- reliance upon, this information by persons or - entities other than the intended recipient iso prohibited.p5 *****************************************************s **   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:23:50 +0200d: From: "Maarten van Breemen" <Maarten.van.Breemen@notox.nl>" Subject: FT: microVAX3100 model 80, Message-ID: <8fua1k$rrf$1@porthos.nl.uu.net>  ( I have a microVAX3100 model 80 available/ and am searching for a SCSI DLT tape drive TZ8*m' or a color notebook, min. pentium 24 MB * Somebody want to trade in the Netherlands?   Specs: microVAX3100-M80, 16 MB memory,o4 3 GB disk space in SCSI storage expansion box (1+2),3 VT420 console terminal. VMS installed. No licenses.s Will not ship.   ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 11:59:12 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)$ Subject: help with runaway dtsession. Message-ID: <8fu1ig$sbp$1@info.service.rug.nl>  I It's happened again.  I've mentioned this before, but never found a good ,H solution.  There should be a patch for this!  From time to time, for no I reason I can determine (i.e. there doesn't seem to be a correlation with hE anything), DTSESSION graps most of the CPU and I/O on the system and " DECW$SM.LOG grows rapidly:  	 $ sh timei   17-MAY-2000 13:36:45 $ dir/siz=all *.log/sin    Directory DISK$USER:[HELBIG]  ! DECW$SM.LOG;57             0/4464n   Total of 1 file, 0/4464 blocks.h     17-MAY-2000 13:36:56! DECW$SM.LOG;57             0/4554-     17-MAY-2000 13:36:58! DECW$SM.LOG;57             0/4662.   It's full of stuff likej  L X Error of failed request:  BadDrawable (invalid Pixmap or Window parameter)2   Major opcode of failed request:  55 (X_CreateGC)*   Resource id in failed request:  0x40001a$ Serial number of failed request:  79-   Current serial number in output stream:  80 4 %XLIB-E-ERROREVENT, error event received from server  E Logging out and logging back in makes it go away; is there some .COM w/ file I can run to fix this without logging out?    Any hope of a patch?  D This is 7.2-1 ALPHA, all relevant patches (I looked this morning; it> would be great if the patches mailing list were working again) installed. a  I By the way, there IS another EDT limitation: it cannot process more than n 65,535 lines at once.      --M Phillip Helbig                       Email .............. helbig@astro.rug.nleM Kapteyn Instituut                    Email ................. helbig@man.ac.ukoM Rijksuniversiteit Groningen          Tel. ................... +31 50 363 4067oM Postbus 800                          Fax .................... +31 50 363 6100lM NL-9700 AV Groningen                 Web ... http://www.astro.rug.nl/~helbig/n  5 My opinions are not necessarily those of my employer.-  N <A HREF=" http://gladia.astro.rug.nl:8000/helbig/hire/hire.html ">HIRE ME!</A>   ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 13:30:56 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)t# Subject: Re: INSVIRMEM when linkingV5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-5kKhk2p2YBn7@localhost>m  6 On Sun, 16 May 3900 20:25:09, "Jean-Franois Marchal" ' <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr> wrote:-  G > >   Um, nothing changed?  Well, clearly _something_ has changed here.TI > >   (The phrase "Nothing changed" should be placed alongside the phrasecJ > >   "It doesn't work" in the pantheon of computer technical support. :-)  	 Too true.R  B To the problem, I've had this when I've a ton of Process logicals  defined...     Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:44:24 +0200-- From: Jouk Jansen <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>0. Subject: Re: Is "The GNU on VMS Project" dead?3 Message-ID: <39225BE8.27640D88@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>8   Hunter Goatley wrote:e > B > On Sun, 14 May 2000 00:22:08 GMT, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian! > Schenkenberger, VAXman-) wrote:f >  > >?K > >I'm just really tired of all the complaints that the problem is that VMS1K > >just doesn't do it the eunuchs way so it is somehow faulted.  The *REAL* L > >problem is the "blinders on" bias placed on these packages by the eunuchsK > >zealots that author them.  If Stallman and his crowd really wanted to behK > >on platforms other than eunuchs, you'd find the GNUgly code written with%J > >a little more consideration for and acknowledgement of other platforms. > >mE > As one of the original GNU porters way back when (I did a number ofe@ > the first Alpha ports that were on the DECUS Starter Kit CD or7 > whatever it was called), I thought I'd chime in here.  > G > Release after release, I'd diligently reapply my VMS modifications to E > the GNU sources.  I finally contacted the maintainers of sed, grep, H > and a couple of others, offering my mods for inclusion in the sources.C > The same mods were necessary every time, so inserting them in thee: > actual source distribution one time would have sufficed. > D > The replies I received were basically along the lines of, "I won't6 > include the changes because I don't care about VMS." > 2 I have other experiences with the few ports I did.D  xlockmore : The maintainer wants to have his program run on as many2              systems as possible (with X-windows).G  Mesa      : Brian Paul put the changes immidiately in the releases andoE              I got write permission to the CVS, when it was setup, toe"              maintain the VMS-portE  wxWindows : When I reported that I had 2 of the many samples runningaG              on VMS, the development team gave me write access to theiri)              CVS to check the changes in.m  D IMHO it is VERY important that if someone ports a package to VMS theF changes are included in the "official" version. Not only because it isH easy for us VMS-users, but more important that all those people ignorantD of the strength of VMS see that also their favourite packages run onF this "unknown-to-them-VMS". In this way we make VMS more well known in
 the world.F Also Compaq can contribute in this: They created a port of GTK/GDK forC Mozilla. It would be good, also from the viewpoint of marketing, to"- merge this port into the "official" releases.i  (                                     Jouk -- m  > Ceterum censeo tertium millennium post Christum natum anno MMI incepturum esse   P >------------------------------------------------------------------------------<  
   Jouk Janseng 		 l   joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nlo  E   Technische Universiteit Delft        tttttttttt  uu     uu  dddddddIF   Nationaal centrum voor HREM          tttttttttt  uu     uu  dd    ddG   Rotterdamseweg 137                       tt      uu     uu  dd     ddpG   2628 AL Delft                            tt      uu     uu  dd     ddhF   Nederland                                tt      uu     uu  dd    ddE   tel. 31-15-2781536                       tt       uuuuuuu   dddddddn  P >------------------------------------------------------------------------------<   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 11:23:25 +0200n= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>-. Subject: Re: Is "The GNU on VMS Project" dead?) Message-ID: <3922650D.7395D3E9@gtech.com><   Jouk Jansen wrote:F > > The replies I received were basically along the lines of, "I won't8 > > include the changes because I don't care about VMS."  4 > I have other experiences with the few ports I did.   That is no surprise.  7 Theese freeware packages are maintained by individuals.o9 Individuals have individual personalities. Some are nice,n some are maybe not so nice.    Arne   ------------------------------    Date: 17 May 2000 03:46:36 -0700? From: john babiarz at babiarz dot org <john_member@newsguy.com>F. Subject: Re: Is "The GNU on VMS Project" dead?* Message-ID: <8fttac$1bhu@edrn.newsguy.com>  @ In article <39225BE8.27640D88@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl>, Jouk says...E >IMHO it is VERY important that if someone ports a package to VMS theLG >changes are included in the "official" version. Not only because it isoI >easy for us VMS-users, but more important that all those people ignorantvE >of the strength of VMS see that also their favourite packages run onqG >this "unknown-to-them-VMS". In this way we make VMS more well known ino >the world.rG >Also Compaq can contribute in this: They created a port of GTK/GDK for0D >Mozilla. It would be good, also from the viewpoint of marketing, to. >merge this port into the "official" releases. >1) >                                    Jouk. >--   C Where might I get GTK/GDK? I need to compile a program from a linuxm box.   ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 14:37:12 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog). Subject: Re: Is "The GNU on VMS Project" dead?, Message-ID: <8fuaqo$ptm@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  k In article <Pine.ULT.3.91.1000516144446.23690D-100000@gunn.kednos.com>, Tom Linden <tom@kednos.com> writes:z  K >Whether you like it or not, a large body of software, not to  mention the ? >internet is Unix dependent.  E My experience suggests that the situation is roughly like this (wherep  "code" refers to lines of code):  1   99.98% of the code is OS independent C (or C++)aI     .01% of the code is absolutely Unix specific and must be rewritten if1H            it is to run at all on OpenVMS (sockets, terminal IO, certainD            sections of X11, and file and path names being the usual             culprits).lG     .01% of the code must be rewritten for performance reasons if it is "            to run well on OpenVMS.  K   99.00% of the build procedures are Unix specific (sometimes even specificn(            to particular Unix variants).K    1.00% have OpenVMS build procedures - because somebody else already did m            a port.   and unfortunately...  I   90.00% of the code has never been compiled with -ansi -Wall or anythingeE            similarly stringent and so it tends to have lots of actualcH            coding errors in it.  These will be often be uncovered in theJ            VMS port and must be repaired for the program to run correctly.  G In any case, Compaq should really address the 4th item on this list.  I I suggest that since they don't want to keep the previous POSIX environmenteA that they at least punch up GNV so that it can do a build using a I reasonably normal Unix Makefile and (yuck) autoconfigure file with little"J or no other manual intervention.   The should also address to some extent I the 2nd and 3rd items.  Some things are hopelessly different between Unix G and OpenVMS, but others are different apparently mostly for historical aG reasons and really could be fixed.  I mean, the business about select().I only working on sockets and not files is always a PITA.  What's the pointlB of that in this day and age?  The Unix behavior is assumed by manyI programs, and having VMS be different only makes it (much) harder to movee software between the OS's. i   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech     ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:50:33 GMTe- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)u. Subject: Re: Is "The GNU on VMS Project" dead?+ Message-ID: <3922bef9.9784909@news.wku.edu>:  / On Wed, 17 May 2000 08:44:24 +0200, Jouk Jansenn" <joukj@hrem.stm.tudelft.nl> wrote:   >Hunter Goatley wrote:E >> The replies I received were basically along the lines of, "I won'tp7 >> include the changes because I don't care about VMS."  >>3 >I have other experiences with the few ports I did.t  @ That's great!  The last time I tried that was back in '94 or so.7 Maybe different people are in charge of those apps now.   E >IMHO it is VERY important that if someone ports a package to VMS the"G >changes are included in the "official" version. Not only because it is.  A That's what I thought too, which is why I was so irritated by the. responses I received.h     Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ ; goathunter@Goatley.com      http://www2.wku.edu/www/hunter/r< Check out Dangerous Dwarf:  http://www2.wku.edu/www/chesbro/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 05:57:52 -0700m? From: John Collins <john_collinsNOjoSPAM@simcon.uk.com.invalid> H Subject: Re: ISAM Files in Standard Fortran (Was: big Fortran data file)9 Message-ID: <20c2f050.07d50c02@usw-ex0109-070.remarq.com>1  6 ISAM file support is available under CVF and most Unix6 FORTRANs.  Sector7 (Sector7.com) provide a sub-program5 library which supports the VMS functionality, and FPTa7 (simcon.uk.com) translates VMS language extensions into  calls to the library.s   Best wishes,   John.        * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautifulo   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:28:16 +0000n From: SysAdmin <djesys@fsi.net>  Subject: KOffice -> OVMS? & Message-ID: <3922C8A0.A9CC7E3@fsi.net>  H In the search for "office" software for OpenVMS, I was wondering if thisF link might be of value to someone with the time and programming skills
 to pursue it:C  * http://koffice.kde.org/install-source.html  C Not sure if this is of any value, but wanted to make mention of it.=   David J. Dachtera    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:49:54 -0400 + From: Peter Anderson <peter@columbusrx.com> # Subject: Re: LAT over fiber problemq8 Message-ID: <b8c5is4hth81v1vuarcmr1olq3tbj45i3m@4ax.com>   Thanks for the help Ray.  A Do I need to change these settings on both the decservers and the D serving node? I understand how to change system wide with latcp, butE do I also need to change the individual decservers? I cannot find anytD information on how to change each indiviudal decserver timeouts. Any# pointers would be much appreciated.    Thanks,> Peter Anderson    B On Tue, 16 May 2000 20:45:28 -0400, "Ray T." <lists@aik.tec.sc.us> wrote:  
 >Hi Peter, > , >The following from Tom solved my problems - >Ray T.< >-= >> Changing these parameters will make LAT sessions work muchn$ >> more reliably in a large network. >> D >> Parameter: KEEPALIVE TIMERC >> Default value: 20 seconds/ >> Recommended value: 255 seconds (the maximum) < >> Commands: DECserver     DEFINE SERVER KEEPALIVE TIMER 255< >>           VMS           MCR LATCP SET NODE /KEEPALIVE=2559 >> Explanation: if there is no traffic over a LAT virtuald9 >> circuit, keepalives will be sent at this interval.  Ifo< >> a keepalive is not acknowledged, then the circuit will be@ >> torn down.  Boosting the value of KEEPALIVE TIMER will enable> >> your LAT sessions to ride out network interruptions (at the; >> cost of a delay in detecting that a node has gone away.)e >> s >> Parameter: RETRANSMIT LIMIT# >> Default value: 8 (or 20) secondsp/ >> Recommended value: 120 seconds (the maximum)t= >> Commands: DECserver     DEFINE SERVER RETRANSMIT LIMIT 120t= >>           VMS           MCR LATCP SET NODE /RETRANSMIT=120e= >> Explanation: if LAT fails to send a message, it will retryy; >> this many times (at 1-second intervals).  If it is stilln> >> unsuccessful, it will destroy the virtual circuit.  As with< >> KEEPALIVE TIMER, boosting RETRANSMIT LIMIT to the maximum= >> will enable your session to survive network interruptions.v >> o >> Parameter: MULTICAST_TIMER  >> Default value: 60 seconds! >> Recommended value: 120 secondsi< >> Commands: DECserver     DEFINE SERVER MULTICAST TIMER 120< >>           VMS           MCR LATCP SET NODE /MULTICAST=1208 >> Explanation: your LAT node will multicast its serviceD >> advertisements this frequently.  If you multicast too frequently,@ >> the Ethernet will see lots of multicast messages from lots ofF >> little VMS systems and  the Unix types will complain.  The tradeoffE >> is that the higher the multicast timer, the less soon after reboot*G >> that LAT clients will see the service node.  Seeing as how a typicalmH >> VMS system will not be ready for general logins for two minutes afterD >> LAT is started in any case, 120 seconds is a reasonable interval. >>   >> Parameter: NODE LIMIT >> Default value: 100d >> Recommended value: NO LIMIT8 >> Commands: DECserver     DEFINE SERVER NODE_LIMIT NONE; >>           VMS           MCR LATCP SET NODE /NODE_LIMIT=0nF >> Explanation: if more than NODE_LIMIT service nodes are advertising,A >> a LAT node will randomly throw out node info.  This will cause 6 >> erratic behavior.  Set NODE_LIMIT to have NO LIMIT. >> * >> --- >>  ! >> |P.S: Here are the parameters:a >> eQ >> |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------t >> |VAX: >> |$ mc latcp show node /fullN >> |Node Name:   FIAS                           LAT Protocol Version:      5.2 >> |Node State:  Ona9 >> |Node Ident:  This is node FIAS running VAX/VMS V5.5-2, >>  N >> |Incoming Connections:  Enabled              Incoming Session Limit:   NoneN >> |Outgoing Connections:  Enabled              Outgoing Session Limit:   None# >> |Service Responder:     DisabledN >> eN >> |Circuit Timer (msec):        80             Keepalive Timer (sec):      20N >> |Retransmit Limit (msg):       8             Node Limit (nodes):       NoneN >> |Multicast Timer (sec):       60             CPU Rating:                  0# >> |Maximum Unit Number:       9999  >>   >> |User Groups:     0 >> |Service Groups:  0 >> r7 >> |Service Name     Status      Rating  IdentificationeQ >> |FIAS             Available     83 D  This is node FIAS running VAX/VMS V5.5-2sQ >> |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------  >> |DECSERVER: >> |Local> show server >> iK >> |DECserver 200 V3.3 BL39     LAT V5.1   ROM BL20    Uptime:  46 03:23:30o >> fK >> |Address:   08-00-2B-0A-E8-05   Name:   FINWTS             Number:     0  >> 5/ >> |Identification:  INW - WIIS Terminal Server  >>  G >> |Circuit Timer:            80           Password Limit:            3aF >> |Console Port:              1           Prompt:              Local>G >> |Inactivity Timer:         30           Queue Limit:             100lG >> |Keepalive Timer:          60           Retransmit Limit:         16 G >> |Multicast Timer:          30           Session Limit:            32 G >> |Node Limit:              100           Software:          PR0801ENGn >> i >> |Service Groups:   0t >>   >> |Enabled Characteristics: >> -+ >> |Announcements,  Broadcast,  Dump,  Lockm >> g >> |--N >> |--------------------------------------------------------------------------G >> |T o m   L e i t n e r                       Dept. of Communications N >> |                                            Graz University of Technology,? >> |e-mail    : tom@finwds01.tu-graz.ac.at      Inffeldgasse 12 N >> |Phone     : +43-316-873-7455                A-8010 Graz / Austria / Europe >> |Fax       : +43-316-463-69709 >> |Home page : http://wiis.tu-graz.ac.at/people/tom.html.I >> |PGP public key on : ftp://wiis.tu-graz.ac.at/pgp-keys/tom.asc or send.J >> |mail with subject "get Thomas Leitner" to pgp-public-keys@keys.pgp.netN >> |--------------------------------------------------------------------------   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:42:51 -04003; From: "Carlc Internet Services" <carlc@iname-nospammen.com>u; Subject: Re: Linux, Unix to VMS VT220 emulation - solution.-4 Message-ID: <UzwU4.2616$dQ.49594356@news.axxsys.net>  C Erik Ahlefeldt wrote in message <8ftag6$2o1$1@gruvel.une.edu.au>...eH > There have been a few requests in this group for a good VT220 terminal= > emulation when connecting to a VMS host from Linux or Unix.g <SNIP> > is avail- 5 > able from http://www-personal.une.edu.au/~oahlefel/a     Erik,:  K     Not bad at all! Thanks. I use Linux for desktop and various servers. Myg. main server is OpenVMS/VAX. This really helps.       CarlH     http://www.carlc.com/        <--- Would you believe an ISP that uses VMS?!h   ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 17:01:19 GMT From: john_d_moore@reyrey.com8, Subject: Re: Mapping HSJ Storage controllers* Message-ID: <8fuj8v$mdi$1@news.netmar.com>  A In a previous article,  <kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org.mars2> writes:  >In articlem? <C12E81FC6CF2D211956100A0C9E0FE8B01CE6DA7@oh15ex04.reyrey.com>, 1 "Moore, John D" <john_d_moore@reyrey.com> writes:sC >> ).  In a nutshell, I do a SET HOST/DUP ... within a SET HOST/LOGpB >> to execute a series of HSJ commands and trap the output, then I >> parse the output and build: >wJ >Well, you can reduce the complexity by doing a SET HOST /DUP /LOG=file in
 >one step. > 
 >	Bob Kaplow	e >nF >SPAM:	spamrecycle@ChooseYourmail.com	uce@ftc.gov	postmaster@127.0.0.1   Bob,  H   No I can't, not if I want to actually execute NON-INTERACTIVE commandsD on the HSJ ... if you examine the scripts (available at the website)J you'll see that I'm poking some SHOW commands into a command procedure andK executing it within the context of the SET HOST/LOG (which traps all of the 
 output).    * Doing a SET HOST/DUP ... /LOG=out.log ... H would put me in an 'interactive' HSJ session ... I've got 10 controllersE and I don't feel like typing all the SHOW commands every time to trapeD the output.  This works, even if the coding is a little rough.  I'm J disappointed there haven't been more takers ... guess everyone likes doing things the hard way.   -JMe      G      -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  ----- G      -----  http://newsone.net/ --  Discussions on every subject. -----oI    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other postsnL made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:42:58 -0400 * From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>, Subject: Re: Mapping HSJ Storage controllers+ Message-ID: <3922DA22.7C197CD4@rtfmcsi.com>h   john_d_moore@reyrey.com wrote:  C > In a previous article,  <kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org.mars2> writes:i
 > >In article"A > <C12E81FC6CF2D211956100A0C9E0FE8B01CE6DA7@oh15ex04.reyrey.com>,m3 > "Moore, John D" <john_d_moore@reyrey.com> writes:tE > >> ).  In a nutshell, I do a SET HOST/DUP ... within a SET HOST/LOGoD > >> to execute a series of HSJ commands and trap the output, then I  > >> parse the output and build: > >cL > >Well, you can reduce the complexity by doing a SET HOST /DUP /LOG=file in > >one step. > >" > >       Bob Kaplow > >"N > >SPAM:  spamrecycle@ChooseYourmail.com  uce@ftc.gov     postmaster@127.0.0.1 >e > Bob, >mJ >   No I can't, not if I want to actually execute NON-INTERACTIVE commandsF > on the HSJ ... if you examine the scripts (available at the website)L > you'll see that I'm poking some SHOW commands into a command procedure andM > executing it within the context of the SET HOST/LOG (which traps all of the 
 > output). > + > Doing a SET HOST/DUP ... /LOG=out.log ... J > would put me in an 'interactive' HSJ session ... I've got 10 controllersG > and I don't feel like typing all the SHOW commands every time to trap E > the output.  This works, even if the coding is a little rough.  I'm L > disappointed there haven't been more takers ... guess everyone likes doing > things the hard way. >- > -JM- >-I >      -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  -----3I >      -----  http://newsone.net/ --  Discussions on every subject. ----- K >    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts9N > made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net  O Dues to the various limitations in dealing with HS series controllers from DCL,"P I simply used the scripting features in my terminal emulator (WRQ Reflection) toP drive the session.  I use a DCL command procedure to actually parse the capturedO output, but the terminal emulator is what actually sends the commands and waits-* for a command prompt between each command.  H I also use a similar method for managing terminal servers since I cannotJ guarantee that I'll have TSM available at every site I visit on consultingN engagements.  Reflection now uses VBScript as its scripting language and it isN very easy to develop powerful scripts for managing terminal servers of various9 types from within the terminal emulation software itself.o  M I suppose if you really wanted to do this completely from within DCL then youpL will need to use the Pseudo-Terminal driver and create an FTAnnnn: device toP work with.  What you do is write a program to create the FTA device and then youP spawn a subprocess that uses the FTA device as its process permanent channel forL at least SYS$INPUT: and SYS$COMMAND:.  You then send commands through to theO subprocess via the FTA device.  The subprocess then executes those commands and ? interacts with the HS series controller in the desired fashion.a  L I used the pseudo-terminal driver to write a poor-man's telnet server at oneL time in the past and I could email you some OpenVMS 'C' language source codeP that shows how to use the driver.  You could easily adapt the code.  My code wasN based on the 'logger.c' example that is located some where under SYS$EXAMPLES:N on most OpenVMS systems.  You could just take that code and work with it, too.  N If this is done correctly, you could make it work via a DECnet object that youN could open a channel to, send commands through and read output from the objectO which would actually do all of the work for you.  Of course, this is probably a % little elaborate for what you wanted.s     Chuckt -- Chuck Chopp   8 ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com            http://www.rtfmcsi.com0                                   ICQ # 22321532@ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax4 Greer, SC  29651                  800 400 4935 pagerC                                   8004004935@alphapage.airtouch.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 06:00:20 -0700s1 From: "Farrell, Michael" <MFarrell@voltdelta.com>a" Subject: Monitor Display on V7.2-1A Message-ID: <7DF45F22D904D31192EE00805F578DF207EECA@NY_EXCHANGE1>h  H Below is a display from MONITOR.  Note that the Total Direct I/O rate isL "9", but for the highest performing individual job on the system the rate is "87".  V  K This system is running OpenVMS V7.2-1.  I have seen this on V7.1 and higherC rev levels sporadically.    J Is this correct?  Am I misinterpreting the display.  Can someone shed some light on this?   Thanks   Mike Farrell mfarrell@voltdelta.com  L Node: CORVUS                OpenVMS Monitor Utility     17-MAY-2000 08:57:290 Statistic: CURRENT             SYSTEM STATISTICSC                                                      Process States J           [ CPU Busy (87)           -]         LEF:     7      LEFO:     0J           |######################    |         HIB:    21      HIBO:     0J CPU     0 }--------------------------{ 100     COM:     1      COMO:     0J           |######################    |         PFW:     0      Other:    19           [--------------------------]         MWAIT:   0nB           Cur Top: BATCH_975 (87)                        Total: 30  eK           [ Page Fault Rate (0)     -]         [ Free List Size (86984)  -]dK           ||                         |         |#################         |- 131KK MEMORY  0 }--------------------------{ 100   0 }--------------------------{gK           |                          |         |                          |  32KgK           [--------------------------]         [ Modified List Size (877) ]            Cur Top:  (0).  .K           [ Direct I/O Rate (9)     -]         [ Buffered I/O Rate (114) -]bK           |###                       |         |###################       |tK I/O     0 }--------------------------{ 60    0 }--------------------------{  150tK           |##########################|         |###################       | K           [--------------------------]         [--------------------------]fG           Cur Top: BATCH_975 (69)              Cur Top: BATCH_975 (114)i   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 17:22:22 GMTi From: itjck01@my-deja.com & Subject: Re: Monitor Display on V7.2-1) Message-ID: <8fukfo$j2n$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   A In article <7DF45F22D904D31192EE00805F578DF207EECA@NY_EXCHANGE1>,.4   "Farrell, Michael" <MFarrell@voltdelta.com> wrote:G > Below is a display from MONITOR.  Note that the Total Direct I/O rate1E > is "9", but for the highest performing individual job on the systemm > the rate is "87".  >jF > This system is running OpenVMS V7.2-1.  I have seen this on V7.1 and! > higher rev levels sporadically.0 >-G > Is this correct?  Am I misinterpreting the display.  Can someone shedx > some light on this?e >r > Thanks >e > Mike Farrell > mfarrell@voltdelta.com >S .n <snip> .   A Do you have any ECO/patches/updates applied to your OpenVMS 7.2-1a3 system?  Are you using fibre attached disk storage?   D The reason I ask is, I believe one of the recent ECOs addressed this. problem, at least with fibre disk connections.   :) jck    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  , Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:00:21 +0200 (CEST): From: "Gotfryd Smolik, VMS lists" <gotfryd@stanpol.com.pl>) Subject: Re: Problems with Submit commandpJ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10005170844500.6504-100000@irys.stanpol.com.pl>  + On Wed, 17 May 2000, Nivlesh Chandra wrote:t  L +I have a user named bakprod and there is a logical defined for disk$scratch'                                  ******   >  Can you be more specific, *where* the logical is defined ? ;)  Is it a search list ?;  Send here a SH LOG SYS$SCRAT*/FULL (be aware, the wildcardT2 is intended !) from the "bakprod" user and system.  K +Now what I have done is logged in as system and now when I try and executeh [...]t4 +%SUBMIT-F-INVLOGFIL, invalid log file specification  +-RMS-E-DNF, directory not found# +-SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file  [...]t@ +I have checked the logicals for disk$scratch and they are fine.  ?  Hm... But VMS point about the "fine" term can be differrent ;) 5  Are the name EXEC or KERNEL mode ? In system table ?T [...]MM +specify for the /log is not present. If I point it to a file that is already M +in disk$scratch for instance if there is a file already called test.log;1 in 
 +disk$scratch G +and I specify /log=disk$scratch:test.log;1 the command is successful.  !                                 *D"                                /^\  J  Hm... Looks interesting. Do also DIR DISK$SCRATCH *and* DIR DISK$SCRATCH:" from the backprog and system user.G  One of difficulties in logname usage is the "enought ':' requirement".eI  And much time have seen invalid definition of logicals, where translatestG to (or includes in translation) a logname: the ":" *in the translation*wB is required, even if *in most cases* the autotranslation mechanismF *works without* it; but in *some* cases of repetative translation haveE seen, that if in two steps a colon is missing - the translation worksr< improperly. Last time have check that some years ago :], andC haven't today time to check it in 7.2 environment, but the idea is:e. $ DEFINE X DKA0	! Improper, expected "DKA0:" ! $ DIR X:[000000] ! Works( $ DEFINE Y X	! Improper, expected "X:" !; $ DIR Y:[000000] ! Can't remember, but roughly that examplet  ! can get to trouble :)    Chack carefully:iB - if the name is in /SYSTEM available table and at least EXEC MODE  LNM$FILE_DEV list> - the name is at least EXEC MODE and READ available :) for any  process: - the translation path have ":" in every translation step.  K +This prob is only with this particular user. Can someone please help me...i-                    **************************I  >  Oppps ! And haven't you elsewhere in the system a  "backprob" logical name defined ??n   +Thanks  +Niv    Regards - Gotfryd   --E =====================================================================tF $ ON F$ERROR("LANGUAGE","ENGLISH","IN_MESSAGE").GT.F$ERROR("NORMAL") - 		THEN EXCUSE/OBJECT=ME . $!                        GS@stanpol.zabrze.plE =====================================================================    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:13:01 +0000  From: SysAdmin <djesys@fsi.net>i) Subject: Re: Problems with Submit command ' Message-ID: <3922C50D.2EF5A4ED@fsi.net>i   Nivlesh Chandra wrote: > M > I have a user named bakprod and there is a logical defined for disk$scratch:L > Now what I have done is logged in as system and now when I try and execute > the followingD > : > submit test.com /user=bakprod /log=disk$scratch /noprint > I get the error as follows > 5 > %SUBMIT-F-INVLOGFIL, invalid log file specification>! > -RMS-E-DNF, directory not foundt$ > -SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file > G > But when I invoke the same command without the /log parameter it goes-. > through so I guess that the default log file5 > is created in the home dir of bakprod successfully.: > B > I have checked the logicals for disk$scratch and they are fine.  [snip]  H Please post the output of SHOW LOGICAL DSK$SCRATCH and we may be able to help a bit more.   David J. Dachtera    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 11:35:31 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>: Subject: Re: PTD's on VMS 5.xi) Message-ID: <392267E3.6018F181@gtech.com>l   Dan O'Reilly wrote:01 > Are PTD's (FTAxx devices) supported on VMS 5.5?o   Yes.  6 They are pretty old. I think they came with DECwindows in VMS 5.1 !   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 14:40:28 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)2 Subject: qio completion time, after process exits?, Message-ID: <8fub0s$ptm@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  ( I couldn't find the answer for this one.  H If a process issues a QIO for a write to disk (for instance) and doesn'tI wait for it to complete, can the process exit _before_ the QIO completes?3F Or will the process go into LEF or RWAST until all QIOs have cleared?    Thanks,2   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech >   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 11:16:43 -0400a# From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu> 6 Subject: Re: qio completion time, after process exits?+ Message-ID: <3922B7DB.8AAAA325@hsc.vcu.edu>   2 Good question... I'd be interested in this also..   : my uneducated guess, knowing what little i know of VMS is:  ) (drum roll)   it will exit...  i think...o  B no time to do an example a la Carl L., so that's my final answer..   Jim|   David Mathog wrote:> > * > I couldn't find the answer for this one. > J > If a process issues a QIO for a write to disk (for instance) and doesn'tK > wait for it to complete, can the process exit _before_ the QIO completes? G > Or will the process go into LEF or RWAST until all QIOs have cleared?  > 	 > Thanks,  >  > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu @ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:28:48 GMT 1 From: "Mark D. Jilson" <jilly@clarityconnect.com>.6 Subject: Re: qio completion time, after process exits?2 Message-ID: <3922BAA3.3916B996@clarityconnect.com>  F The process will wait for the IO to complete, in RWAST I believe.  YouG can simply test this with a $QIO write to a MBX that is not supposed to-D complete until the message is read.  The process should hang on exit4 until another process does a COPY MBAnnn: SYS$OUTPUT   David Mathog wrote:u > * > I couldn't find the answer for this one. > J > If a process issues a QIO for a write to disk (for instance) and doesn'tK > wait for it to complete, can the process exit _before_ the QIO completes? G > Or will the process go into LEF or RWAST until all QIOs have cleared?n > 	 > Thanks,S >  > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edub@ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech   --  D Jilly	- Working from Home in the Chemung River Valley - Lockwood, NY0 	- jilly@clarityconnect.com			- Brett Bodine fan. 	- Mark.Jilson@Compaq.com			- since 1975 or so, 	- http://www.jilly.baka.com               -   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 18:31:57 GMTo9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)n6 Subject: Re: qio completion time, after process exits?+ Message-ID: <oWRlpz6$auvi@eisner.decus.org>s  a In article <8fub0s$ptm@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes: * > I couldn't find the answer for this one. > J > If a process issues a QIO for a write to disk (for instance) and doesn'tK > wait for it to complete, can the process exit _before_ the QIO completes?e  E If the program wants to exit without waiting, it should call $CANCEL.E  H > Or will the process go into LEF or RWAST until all QIOs have cleared?   ? But even after calling $CANCEL it is possible to go into RWAST, ? since while queued IOs are easy to eliminate some drivers mighto@ not be able to get rid of IOs actually given to the device until? the device is good and ready.  Note that to do so would be mostc> difficult on read, since those IOs might be about to read into@ an address that is a buffer for this program but executable code< for the next program to be run.  When a DMA device is set to@ write to your process memory, there is not much that can be done to stop it.O   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 11:32:03 +0000 / From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>n+ Subject: re:  Re: the latest billybox virusd7 Message-ID: <009EA37B.FCE3C091.10@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>t  6 > From:=09PHCLUS::INFOVAX      17-MAY-2000 09:10:58.02 > To:=09MAIL_TO/ > CC:=09' > Subj:=09Re: the latest billybox virus- >=20F > From:=09MX%"Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam" 16-MAY-2000 22:20:14= .59e" > To:=09MX%"Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com" > CC:=09' > Subj:=09Re: the latest billybox virus- >=20+ > Return-Path: <infovax-request@ulcc.ac.uk>5F > Received: from banquo (banquo.umds.ac.uk) by newton.ph.kcl.ac.uk (M= X V4.1 AXP)e6 >           with SMTP; Tue, 16 May 2000 22:21:51 +00001 > Envelope-to: infovax-group@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.ukiF > Received: from vmsfe.ulcc.ac.uk ([128.86.248.32]) by banquo with sm= tp id2F >           12romS-0001gR-00 for infovax-group@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk; = Tue, 16 May_ >           2000 22:21:32 +0100>; > From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)/( > Subject: Re: the latest billybox virus- > Reply-To: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospame > Organization: LJK Software- > Message-ID: <H41EWbqBOtr4@eisner.decus.org>EC > X-Trace: news.decus.org 958475275 20440 KILGALLEN [216.44.122.34] % > Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 13:07:52 GMTl > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt > X-Gateway-Source-Info: USENET $ > Sender: infovax-request@ulcc.ac.uk >=20F > In article <39210129.B57AA0AB@gtech.com>, Arne =3D?iso-8859-1?Q?Vaj=, h=3DF8j?=3D <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes: > > Tim Llewellyn wrote: > >> Arne Vajh=F8j wrote:e0 > >> > No, but since SYS$IDTOASC will return all5 > >> > identifiers (=3D> all usernames), then that iso  > >> > not increasing security ! > >>' > >> You mean that works with no privs?s > >=20 > > Yes. > >=20? > >> Hmmm, I wonder which image you need to deinstall to removee > >> that capability?  > >=209 > > It is a system service, which I assume is widely used 4 > > within VMS, so I do not think it is that simple. >=20< > Have any of you tried setting the NAME_HIDDEN attribute onA > a UIC identifier ?  The system service description for $IDTOASC3C > says NAME_HIDDEN will make the translation fail for those without % > read access to the rights database.s >=20  F I think it should also be pointed out that there is not necessarily a= =20iF 1:1:1 correspondence between Username, ID, and home directory name. T= hisd is merely conventional.=20  F It would be possible to set up a userID JOE with home directory [FRED= ]rF owned by a UIC [202,230] that translates to [JAMES]. This might enhan= ceF security slightly. It would be a management nightmare! As usual, the = more=20nF secure a system is made, the less usable it becomes. (I also doubt th= at; it's necessary to have an ID translating [202,230] at all).   F In any case (and back to the subject) this is rather secondary. If yo= u've=20gF tricked a VMS user into running a script, there is fundamentally no w= ayF to stop it scanning his MAIL.MAI file for From: fields and mailing to=  these.oF This may not spam every user of the system, but is certain to broadca= stB the worm to those most likely to fall for it, i.e. those who have= =20lA previously and especially recently been in communication with thecC victim, and therefore theleast likely to think of the mail receivedvF as hostile. Searches for lognames translating as xxx@yyy or strings o=	 f that=20e8 form in the users textual files are equally unstoppable.  F Another notable VMS feature is the login flags (especially DISMAIL an= doF DISIMAGE and CAPTIVE). You can deny users access to mail or lock them=  into=20F a restricted environment, if that's compatible with what they are the= re for.   	 =09Yours,  =09=09Nigel Arnot 3 =09=09NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                  =20s  ; =09=09"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:59:44 GMTa% From: jlsue <jlsuexxxz@dialupnet.com>m& Subject: Re: the latest billybox virus8 Message-ID: <2s55isocs85pd2d7efoedcp5esuaa2nina@4ax.com>  D Well, now remember, to get on the system you'd need a valid account.C After that, just doing SHOW USERS would get you all the informationh	 you need.c    1 On Mon, 15 May 2000 15:04:05 +0100, Tim Llewellynp  <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote:   >o >a >Arne Vajhj wrote:- >h >> d.webb@mdx.ac.uk wrote:2 >> > Rightslist should also not be world readable. >> >4 >> > On my systems it's protection is (RWED,RWED,R,) >>, >> No, but since SYS$IDTOASC will return all/ >> identifiers (=> all usernames), then that is  >> not increasing security ! >> >> Arne9 >p# >You mean that works with no privs?  >0; >Hmmm, I wonder which image you need to deinstall to remove- >that capability?1  1 Not speaking for anyone, certainly not DEC/Compaq<- (get rid of the xxxx in my address to e-mail)l   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:18:03 +0200G= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>i& Subject: Re: the latest billybox virus) Message-ID: <39229C0B.C097D0F3@gtech.com>t   jlsue wrote:F > Well, now remember, to get on the system you'd need a valid account.E > After that, just doing SHOW USERS would get you all the informationn > you need.e   ????  9 Not all users are logged in. In theese client/server daysr= it is often only the system manager that logs in. Other usersn useoI browser/PathWorks/Windoes-email-client/windows-special-client-applicationE etc. to access the VMS system.   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 13:30:40 GMT- From: djweath@attglobal.net (Dave Weatherall)  Subject: Re: threads5 Message-ID: <DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-4uLBDzzMxRde@localhost>0  C On Sun, 16 May 3900 12:08:02, "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>   wrote:   > < > "Dave Weatherall" <djweath@attglobal.net> wrote in message1 > news:DTiotGxQ0bj6-pn2-LClKgJwKTIY2@localhost...  > I > > Using the CMA interface was/is a blessing in disguise since the POSIX0G > > i/f was changed from the original Draft that was implemented in the9 > > original DECthreads. > G > Well it wasn't much of a disguise as the old docs clearly stated that   > this would likely be the case.  F Did it? Well done DEC. Maybe I read it after all:-). In retrospect, I E seem to remember that choosing the CMA interface had something to do -B with getting hold of the header/include file for Fortran on a VMS E 5.5.2 system. Also the CMA queue functions have beenn _very_ useful. /C Anyway It works and I'm blooming grateful to DEC for making it so..#  E > > The only concern that I have still is how the Kernel level thread}I > > support will affect my app. Either in it's source or its execution of % > > the VMS 6.2 images under VMS 7.1.  > ? > If you have a correct program that worked fine without Kernel-< > threads, you can leave them disabled on a per-image basis.  - Thanks for that. It gives me some confidence.-  < > Using them means that you have to go through less hoops to6 > avoid blocking the whole process in some situations.  D You mean  the hoops where one uses non-wait QIO's that issue an AST E and then enter a thread wait state until the AST is delivered, which aA satisfies the cond_wait etc. Yeah I've got a couple of those too!a  A I still can't defeat the implicit QIOW in my Fortran READ/WRITES a1 though. However, it does work quick enough now.  h  E Now all we have to do is replace the 1982 VT100 based user interface hF with something more modern. Maybe kernel threads will help here if we  use SMG$ as the first step.s   Cheers - Dave.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:35:44 +0200 * From: Andrija Pantovic <panta@digit.cg.yu>4 Subject: turning off system messages on console port+ Message-ID: <39227600.93E03012@digit.cg.yu>h   Hi !  9 What would be the easiest way to turn off system messagesr< appearing on system console of MicroVAX II (in order to make8 some Kermit file transfer over console port, other ports died).   SW is VMS v.4.7- HW is MicroVAX II    Regards:   -- *********************t Andrija Pantovic System Engineera Phone: +38169083133:
 ICQ #66958104i *********************s   ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 11:52:18 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)w5 Subject: Re: UCX Printing to external printer serverso' Message-ID: <8fu15i$9vl$1@joe.rice.edu>   + Pete Walker (pete.walker@virgin.net) wrote:oJ : Has anyone been successful in printing from an AlphaServer with UCX, to I : an external printer server such as a D-Link.  We have no problems with fI : printers having internal cards, but cannot set up printing to external  % : servers. Any help much appreciated.   @ We have been able to use H-P JetDirect print servers, which comeA in one-port (9100) or three-port (9100, 9101, 9102) models; e.g.:.  6    $ DEFINE/SYSTEM UCX$TELNETSYM_SUPRESS_FORMFEEDS  34@    $ INIT/QUE/START/ON="138.53.135.5:9100"/PROC=UCX$TELNETSYM/ -/      DEFAULT=(NOBURST,NOFLAG,NOTRAIL,NOFEED)/ - /      DEVICE=PRINTER /RECORD_BLOCKING  SYS$PRINTo  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:31:29 +0200g5 From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@whitehouse.nl>h5 Subject: Re: UCX Printing to external printer servers - Message-ID: <3922AD41.4EE328DF@whitehouse.nl>    Jerry Leslie wrote:s > - > Pete Walker (pete.walker@virgin.net) wrote:SK > : Has anyone been successful in printing from an AlphaServer with UCX, tomJ > : an external printer server such as a D-Link.  We have no problems withJ > : printers having internal cards, but cannot set up printing to external' > : servers. Any help much appreciated.  > B > We have been able to use H-P JetDirect print servers, which comeC > in one-port (9100) or three-port (9100, 9101, 9102) models; e.g.:e > 8 >    $ DEFINE/SYSTEM UCX$TELNETSYM_SUPRESS_FORMFEEDS  34B >    $ INIT/QUE/START/ON="138.53.135.5:9100"/PROC=UCX$TELNETSYM/ -1 >      DEFAULT=(NOBURST,NOFLAG,NOTRAIL,NOFEED)/ -,1 >      DEVICE=PRINTER /RECORD_BLOCKING  SYS$PRINTe > 6 > --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)  < I think the D-link only does LPD. This should work with UCX.   Regards,   Oswald   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:06:11 -0400 + From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>F- Subject: Vaxstation graphics to SVGA monitor?a1 Message-ID: <39229943.4769D2BF@trailing-edge.com>l  @ A question that's a bit different than the typical "How do I use my old VR299 on a PC clone":  B Does anyone here have any experience hooking VAXstations (anythingA from VS2000's to 3100's with SPX or GPX graphics to 4000VLC's andp
 4000/60's)H to a modern multisync SVGA monitor?  It'd be nice if the monitor accepts= sync-on-green, but if not I'd be willing to build my own sync H separator.  And obviously the multisync SVGA monitor will have to handleF the scan rates from the Vaxstation(s) - but unfortunately I'm having a hardG time getting scan rate details on many modern commercial SVGA monitors.-D The specs usually list the supported resolutions, but not the actual scan rates.<  @ Any leads?  Words from the wise?  I have too many customers withB dying VR160's, VR190's, VR290's, VR299's, etc., who really need to@ keep their screens running reliably, and it'd be a big win if weB could just plug in a nice modern (maybe even generic) SVGA monitorC when their current monitor dies.  (Notice I said "when", not "if"!)a   --B  Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.comG  Trailing Edge Technology          WWW:   http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 6  7328 Bradley Blvd                 Voice: 301-767-59176  Bethesda, MD, USA 20817           Fax:   301-767-5927   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 11:30:16 +0200d= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>d( Subject: Re: verifying username password) Message-ID: <392266A7.BAD74845@gtech.com>o   "John E. Malmberg" wrote:dK > I do notice that you changed it from a SUBROUTINE to an inline procedure.-6 > That is a change of functionality, not a correction.  A To be nit-picky - I would call it a change of implementation, notj a change of functionality.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 07:52:22 -0500A) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> ( Subject: Re: verifying username password7 Message-ID: <0bd401bfbffe$bfb0b2d0$020a0a0a@xile.realm>-  9 AW: verifying username passwordManser, Nazim (EXT) wrote:s; > I'm sending the mails via outlook, so there are 4 ways of  > setting up mail messages.e" > i choosed the plain text format.> > please tell me if it arrives as plain text in the newsgroup.I > that's all i can do. or is there an other solution to post to info-vax.    It is still coming in HTML.i  I For OUTLOOK, the setting under the FORMAT pull down menu only affects thel8 current message.  You must set it for each message sent.  G To permanently set plain text, you must go to the TOOLS menu and selectv
 OPTIONS...  H Use the SEND tab, and there are three boxes to change from the defaults:  K For news sending format and mail setting format make sure that "Plain Text"f is selected.  G Also I clear the setting to reply in the same format as the message wasb	 received.d  J Under the TOOLS: menu, Address Book, for each address you have stored, youD can also check the Properties page under the NAME tag, and set those" addresses to only send plain text.  L It seems that upgrading Outlook sets these preferences back to the Microsoft	 Defaults.   2 I see you do have the VCF card setting turned off.  J For the benefit of some others, make sure that sending of VCF cards is off! unless the recipiant requires it.   H For all other recipiants, it is simply a waste.  For people reading thisJ list in digest form, or on a dumb terminal, VCF cards are just an annoying thing to skip past.b  2 >>here is the corrected form of the dcl procedure:5 >>What required correction?  Was some symbol missing?r8 1) in the posted procedure there wasn't a timeout value.I    may be it was set in the rest of thge procedure which you didn't post.i  J Yes, the timeout value was missing.  The main line procedure sets it basedJ on the security level of the menu selection.  The more privileged settings have a shorter timeout.t  L Since this menu can be left logged in for long periods of time, this featureI was designed to keep unknown people from executing a privileged function.h  L The completed menu command program also has routines that draw boxes and set text attributes.  H It is basically very simple minded in it's implementation.  It scans theF directory where it resides for files that match "*_MENU.*".  These areH assigned numbers and then listed.  Underscores are replaced with spaces.  L When the user selects an entry with a .TXT extension, it is displayed.  .COMH files are executed, and for .DIR files, a matching name_MENU.COM in that subdirectory is executed.    2) in the following line8 $ directory/out=nl: 0"''uname_test' ''upass'"::login.com $  if $severity .ge. 2 $  then- $    goto u_bad- $  else                 ! / $    goto u_ok          !  i added these lines.o! $  endif                        !c  L A quick editing error.  What was actually in that section of code was a testH to see if that username was in one of two datafiles, as a further limit.9 This was simpler to maintain than maintaining a username.n  J The original code used an external symbol to specify what files were to beA checked.  This allowed for different menu items to have differento
 restrictions.r  , If no files are found, then no restrictions.  K If a file of <menu_name>_NOAUTH.DAT is found, then that user is not allowedt to use that menu item.  E If a file of <menu_name>_AUTH.DAT is found, then only those users areg allowed to use that menu item.  L I removed that section to make the code example easier to read.  Yes, a goto u_ok was definitely needed.u  - original post (i have formatted it a little.) $ $if f$trnlnm("AUTH_VERIFY") .NES. "" $THENe $  show sym uname_test $endif$ $if f$trnlnm("AUTH_VERIFY") .NES. "" $THENp $  show sym upassl $endif7 $directory/out=nl: 0"''uname_test' ''upass'"::login.com % $ if $severity .ge. 2 then goto u_bad  $ upass = "" $uretry: $  goto usrloopO    L without them the programm went in the usrloop, and after 3 times exited with SS$_NOPRIV.     5 > It is right, but this is micro$oft product outlook,t3 > which make the trouble, it only can set the emailaC > format to plain text, since it is the only way i can send emails.:  I I have not yet found it's interesting setting that causes 8 copies of all-7 e-mails to be sent out as happened to some early users.1  & > which mailer have you at your site ?  ? I have a variety of mailers available.  Outlook is one of them.i   > under which OS ?  + I have OpenVMS, Windows NT, and LINUX here.   & > how do you receive my mail ? MIMED ?   Yes it is MIMED.   John wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 11:05:44 -0400l[ From: jamese@BEAST.DTSW.ARMY.MIL (Ed James, TCS Inc, 410-295-1919, ed.james@telecomsys.com)2( Subject: Re: Verifying username password0 Message-ID: <00051711054453@beast.dtsw.army.mil>  2 "Moore, John D" <john_d_moore@REYREY.COM> wrote inA <C12E81FC6CF2D211956100A0C9E0FE8B01CE6DAA@oh15ex04.reyrey.com> onl  Tue, 16 May 2000 14:27:13 -0400:  @ > consider using Liaison Tools written by Doug Denton from Intec9 > Consulting (listed in the Decus Software Library -- therG > library seems to be unavailable while they are reorganizing the site,:, > so you might have to hunt or wait for it).   <snip>  > > If you are interested, I could make the original package and: > my 'enhancements' available to you in separate archives.A > Undoubtedly they will require some customization for your site,wA > but the nice thing is it's very easy to customize.  And if you I= > want to add your own 'privileged' commands, there's nothing, > stopping you.   B I would like to get a copy of this package. Please e-mail me about  how you might make it available.  @ > If anyone has found anything similar that will fill this need, > please let me in on it.=  G I have a very simple package written by Jim Downward back in 1984 or soVE that is still working like a champ. It's a Fortran (and/or C) program D driver, a main command procedure, and a data file that says what canA be run. You need to create a command file that validates the usere? and executes whatever is necessary. It's like a captive account + done at run time for a non-privileged user.   C If you would like more information about this package, let me know.e  : Ed James                           ed.james@telecomsys.com5 TeleCommunications Systems, Inc.   voice 410-295-1919p5 275 West Street, Suite 400         fax   410-280-1094a Annapolis, MD 21401-1740   ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 17:41:54 GMT From: john_d_moore@reyrey.coms( Subject: Re: Verifying username password* Message-ID: <8full2$o57$1@news.netmar.com>  : In a previous article,  <young_r@eisner.decus.org> writes: > 8 >	I have a need to allow users sign into an open account; >	to make a menu choice to kill off other users.  The groupn> >	that has access to the "open" account would then be verified9 >	against their true username and password to ensure thiseF >	isn't being abused/misused and for auditing.  I've try to dredge up C >	a freeware product but can't find it or am not thinking about it o >	correctly. >v >	summarizing: >l >	1) login to captive accountn! >	2) prompt for username/passwordhA >	3) check against UAF that username password are correct withoutf >		actually logging them in.H >	4) if pass check in 3) prompt them for user to whack and then whackem. >n= >	Why this way?  Don't want to hand out privs here and there.s# >	Other solutions are welcome also.d >P >	   Rob,  G   Don't know if you got a good answer for this, but before doing eithere of the following:t     1) handing out privs?   2) using a 'generic/shared' (and therefore anonymous) account.       with privs or J   3) writing up a very specific program installed with privs and protectedE      with ACL's (though this is the most attractive of the 3 options)M    > consider using Liaison Tools written by Doug Denton from Intec7 Consulting (listed in the Decus Software Library -- theaE library seems to be unavailable while they are reorganizing the site, * so you might have to hunt or wait for it).  C I've searched high and low for a solution that would let me do awayyE with the privileged user accounts at our site (such as the operator's ? and *shudder* -- the helpdesk and even some developer's who say>C they need them to support the application and the users -- a likelys story!)   > Liaison Tools is a collection of DCL scripts and miscellaneous6 executables that perform privileged tasks on behalf ofA non-privileged user accounts.  It comes with the CERBERUS packagehA (also available thru decus - CERBERUS is a Fortran program which,tG installed with privs, can run command procedures in a 'secure (captive)rC shell').  The entire package installs as a vms saveset [note - thisl package-F is an older package and wouldn't install on vms 6.2, what I'm running,J but I got it installed by unarcing the saveset and changing the KITINSTALLE ..COM -- VMS_MAX_VER symbol.  (It was set to "5.9-9") and repackagingl, the saveset.  After that it installed fine].B During the install process it installs CERBERUS in SYS$LIBRARY andE creates process rights identifiers for each Liaison Tool command, andl installs itselfdH in its own directory tree on the system disk (protected appropriately by ACL's).n  .  The available commands with this version are:  /   LT_AUTHORIZE    ........ Manage user accounts.,   LT_DISKQUOTA    ........ Manage diskquotas-   LT_ENTRY        ........ Manage job entries3'   LT_FILE         ........ Manage filesv0   LT_IDENTIFIER   ........ Manage process rights4   LT_LOGINS       ........ Manage interactive logins1   LT_MAIL         ........ Manage forward aliases.+   LT_PROCESS      .........Manage processesd4   LT_QUEUE        ........ Manage print/batch queuesA   LT_REPLY        ........ Manage broadcast messages and operatorc requests/   LT_RMU          ........ Manage RDB databasesa  < To do what you are trying to do, all you would have to do isB install the package and grant an identifier to the user's account. Then the user could:  ?    LT_PROCESS SHOW [username or pid] /show-process-qualifiers      andy  $    LT_PROCESS STOP [username or pid]  I (command will prompt for confirmation in interactive mode before stopping 
 the process).l  C I've made some 'enhancements' for our site to change some of the   t> assumptions Doug (the original author) made for his site whichA didn't really fit our environment (so now my assumptions probably J won't fit other peoples' environments).  I've also fixed some minor bugs  = in the original dcl scripts (and probably introduced some new ? ones).  I've also added a simple menu shell that (I believe) isc% suitable for use in captive accounts.e  8 I've also made EXTENSIVE customizations to the AUTHORIZE> script, especially the ADD user function, to support our site.  ; The biggest change I made was to the validation logic.  The > original package determines the 'accessible' groups (ie. which8 accounts may be manipulated by LT) by looking up the UIC> group in a sequential file.  This validiation extends thru the7 entire set of commands (LT_AUTH, LT_PROC, LT_FILE,...). 8 The first change I made was to include the member number= of the UIC along with the group number in the validation file = (meaning that all 'accessible' accounts are now listed in the08 file).  Since this made lookups much slower, I keyed the; files using the 'UIC' as the key.  I also wrote some custom > 'filter' scripts to filter out the accounts I don't want to be< accessible (ie. - any with elevated privs, any in UIC groups- less than MAXSYSGROUP, any accounts with home = directory on the system disk, et cetera ...) This filter runsc; nightly and rebuilds the validation files.  There is also ay< validation file for the process rights (determining which   7 may be managed thru Liaision Tools).  I keyed this filer: as well and wrote a filter that rebulids the file nightly.4 I also added logic to associate a 'template' with an? identifier.  The template contains process quota adjustments    3 to be applied to the account when the corresponding-: identifier is granted (the original Liaison Tools also has6 a 'template' function for the LT_AUTHORIZE ADD command8 which allows you to set up default profiles for specific4 types of users -- I didn't make any change to this).  3 The command set is somewhat granular if you need toe; divide up responsibilities ... for instance, if you need toL4 give a certain group of people ability to manipulate5 diskquotas, another group to reset passwords, another 3 group to manage print and batch queues, ... you cann4 do it.  However some commands aren't granular enough0 yet (such as the LT_AUTHORIZE command ... if you9 only want users to be able to reset passwords, not set upS5 new accounts -- you'd have to do some customization.)0  < If you are interested, I could make the original package and8 my 'enhancements' available to you in separate archives.? Undoubtedly they will require some customization for your site,-> but the nice thing is it's very easy to customize.  And if you> want to add your own 'privileged' commands, there's nothing   
 stopping you.P  < This is somewhat similar to the 'SUDO' utility available for4 unix to control root user access in the same manner.  > If anyone has found anything similar that will fill this need,; please let me in on it.  I've found some 3rd party packagesn> that allow 'some' of this functionality, but nothing with thisD much (nor so easy to extend). This is a good solution, not a perfect8 one though.  I'm meeting some resistance, mainly becauseC it's hard to categorize all the things that the privileged accounts ? at our site have come to be used for over the years.  Nothing'se= documented and no easy way to audit them.  Plus, no one wants 3 to learn a new command set unless they're forced to$: (and believe me, if I have my say they will be forced to).  9 Anyhow, hope this will prove some use to someone.  If any ? interest is shown, I will make these available and post a       8 URL they can be downloaded from.  (Of course, it will be3 "as-is" with no warranty expressed or implied, with 6 installation assistance provided on a limited basis).    -John M. Sr. System Admin (VMS & Unix)t Reynolds & Reynolds Co.n                      G      -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  ----- G      -----  http://newsone.net/ --  Discussions on every subject. -----nI    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts3L made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net   ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 13:20:01 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)2 Subject: Re: VMS and Ole for Process Control (OPC)6 Message-ID: <8fu6a1$frk$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  \ In article <392089C2.EFDD42F9@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: :jlahman@LTVSteel.com wrote:P :> According to Compaq's VMS Futures presentation, manufacturing is a key marketF :> for VMS.  However, what we are seeing is that to be a player in theP :> manufacturing market, a product or operating system must be able to talk OPC.  
   And it can.d  I   The following is slightly paraphrased from some official documentation:c  I   The Compaq COM for OpenVMS V1.1 product and later (V1.1A is the current"K   release, with V1.1B nearing release) contain the necessary functionality cI   to support process control applications that are written in accordance  H   with the OLE for Process Control (OPC) specification, "OPC Data AccessH   Automation Specification, V2.02", dated February 3, 1999. Compaq will G   not be delivering any process control software, either components or FC   clients, but it will be delivering the necessary COM development oE   environment and runtime components that will allow process control oG   vendors or end users to develop applications that conform to the OPC o   specification.  L :Yep, and Compaq still states that international funds tranfers is a key VMSL :market with very strong market penetration, even though SWIFT has announcedC :that it will stop supporting its VMS product in a couple of years.A  D   I forwarded the (unrelated to OPC) SWIFT discussion (when it last :   surfaced) along to the relevent OpenVMS product manager.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 02:44:42 -0400a From: "dls2" <dls2@Lehigh.EDU>  Subject: Re: VMS on the desktop?- Message-ID: <8ftf6c$l50@fidoii.CC.Lehigh.EDU>i  / "Howard S Shubs" <hshubs@mindspring.com> wrote:g  >"dls2" <dls2@Lehigh.EDU> wrote: > 3 > >How does VMS fare as a desktop operating system?a > >From a sysop's perspective? > >From a user's perspective?t >h= > It's very stable.  How it looks from a user's point of viewh' > depends on what the user wants to do.f  4 Well, are X/Motif/CDE standard?  What is DECwindows?0 Are X/Motif/CDE branded by Compaq as DECwindows,4 or is DECwindows a window manager for X, or neither?  . Are there any other GUI frontends to consider?  7 How intuitive, and easy to use, is the VMS command linea8 interface?  Are there any quirks worth noting?  Does the9 VMS command line interface get used often?  Is there mucha reason to use it, or not?e  < On the desktop, is it likely to be perceived any differently8 than a Un*x workstation?  Other than stability, does VMS5 have any benefits when used as a desktop workstation?o   Why VMS?     appreciatively,  Derrick Shearert dls2@Lehigh.EDUt   ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 07:27:45 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)  Subject: Re: VMS on the desktop?. Message-ID: <8fthlh$nam$3@info.service.rug.nl>  F In article <8fsn2q$bke@fidoii.CC.Lehigh.EDU>, "dls2" <dls2@Lehigh.EDU> writes:    >I've never seen, or used, VMS.  >y1 >How does VMS fare as a desktop operating system?y  9 It is the best operating system in the world, hands down.m   >From a sysop's perspective? >From a user's perspective?e  - Ditto.  Also from a programmer's perspective.a  H One of the strengths of VMS is that the operating system is exactly the F same from a small desktop workstation to a huge, multi-million dollar  server.p  H If by "desktop" you mean "does it run the latest Microsoft stuff", then G the answer is no, but of course this is a perversion of the meaning of  H "desktop", and of course if you want to run Microsoft stuff there is no D reason to have VMS; most VMS people wouldn't even want the stuff on ( their machines even if it were possible.  H I could literally go on for hours about the advantages of VMS.  A few of@ the highlights are: excellent documentation, excellent backwards@ compatibility, stability, ease of use, safe against attacks from< outside, safe against the user shooting himself in the foot,D scalability, reliability, runs on the fastest hardware in the world.   ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 08:12:24 GMT' From: Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.jyu.fi>   Subject: Re: VMS on the desktop?, Message-ID: <8ftk98$8et$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>   dls2 <dls2@lehigh.edu> wrote:a  > I've never seen, or used, VMS.  J I've used VMS workstation as my PC ten years. (My opinions may be a little biased.)  2 > How does VMS fare as a desktop operating system?   Fine.    > From a sysop's perspective?h  H Good as standalone machine. Even better when used as node in vmscluster.J For example, it's very easy to add workstations (diskless or with disk) toH vmscluster and get centralized services from it (like installed softwareF and backups). It's also easy to use extra cpu cycles by batch runs ...   > From a user's perspective?  H VMS operating system is okay, but support from Compaq sucks. For exampleI there's no pdf reader (freeware exist), but Compaq keeps some VMS relatedSI www-documents in pdf and word formats only. That's insane. There's ratherNC good system to run win32 programs in Alphas FX!32, but it was neveraF implemented for VMS, only for NT :-( . Posix for VMS vas discontinued.I etc. etc.                                                             /OKt   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:52:36 GMT % From: Alan Greig <agreig@my-deja.com>t  Subject: Re: VMS on the desktop?) Message-ID: <8ftmkh$goa$1@nnrp1.deja.com>i  - In article <8ftf6c$l50@fidoii.CC.Lehigh.EDU>,s!   "dls2" <dls2@Lehigh.EDU> wrote:e  6 > Well, are X/Motif/CDE standard?  What is DECwindows?  E Yes. DECWindows is a historical brand name (DECWindows/Motif in full)t  2 > Are X/Motif/CDE branded by Compaq as DECwindows,6 > or is DECwindows a window manager for X, or neither?   >e0 > Are there any other GUI frontends to consider?  < I think people have ported various window managers from time6 to time. There is also a pre-CDE motif window manager.   > 9 > How intuitive, and easy to use, is the VMS command line(: > interface?  Are there any quirks worth noting?  Does the; > VMS command line interface get used often?  Is there much1 > reason to use it, or not?   4 Very intuitive in most users experience I would say.  B Why not take a look at www.openvms.digital.com and peruse the FAQ?     > > > On the desktop, is it likely to be perceived any differently: > than a Un*x workstation?  Other than stability, does VMS7 > have any benefits when used as a desktop workstation?l  ; A large number of VMS workstations can be configured easilyo; into a cluster and managed as if one entity. VMS clusteringIC capabilites exceed those offered by any other O/S by a considerableo degree.e   >e
 > Why VMS?   I'd need to write a book :)  --
 Alan Greig    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 09:48:15 GMT' From: Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.jyu.fi>   Subject: Re: VMS on the desktop?, Message-ID: <8ftpsv$c11$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>  + Phillip Helbig <helbig@astro.rug.nl> wrote:n ...gJ > One of the strengths of VMS is that the operating system is exactly the H > same from a small desktop workstation to a huge, multi-million dollar 	 > server.   F Yes. And I don't know of any other os that so well suites every place./ Windows and/or Linux will be there soon though.r   ... J > "desktop", and of course if you want to run Microsoft stuff there is no C                                    Should be 'Microsoft stuff only'nF > reason to have VMS; most VMS people wouldn't even want the stuff on * > their machines even if it were possible.G ...                                                                       H It's sad, but we need Microsoft stuff. For example some documents is www# are only in Microsoft file formats.-  J                                                                        /OK   ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 10:26:24 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann),  Subject: Re: VMS on the desktop?0 Message-ID: <8fts4g$c2i$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  N In article <8ftf6c$l50@fidoii.CC.Lehigh.EDU>, "dls2" <dls2@Lehigh.EDU> writes:0 >"Howard S Shubs" <hshubs@mindspring.com> wrote:! >>"dls2" <dls2@Lehigh.EDU> wrote:n >>4 >> >How does VMS fare as a desktop operating system? >> >From a sysop's perspective?t >> >From a user's perspective? >>> >> It's very stable.  How it looks from a user's point of view( >> depends on what the user wants to do. >c  >Well, are X/Motif/CDE standard?  2 Yes, they are and can be found on many Unix boxes.   >What is DECwindows?  0 Digital Equipment's implementation of X-Windows.  1 >Are X/Motif/CDE branded by Compaq as DECwindows,n   No.   5 >or is DECwindows a window manager for X, or neither?   & It is a user interface for X like CDE.  / >Are there any other GUI frontends to consider?    Not that I am aware of.e  8 >How intuitive, and easy to use, is the VMS command line >interface?i  J It depends from your point of view. If we compare it to other command-lineJ interfaces I can tell that is a lot more intuitive than Unix, DOS or OS-9. I found VM/CMS comparable.  L >Are there any quirks worth noting?  Does the VMS command line interface get
 >used often? I  I Most of the system managers use the command-line. Users generally have an  application front-end.  ( >Is there much reason to use it, or not?  . Do you mean VMS or the command-line interface?  = >On the desktop, is it likely to be perceived any differentlyp >than a Un*x workstation?o  7 From the look and feel it is similar but easier to use.d  H >Other than stability, does VMS have any benefits when used as a desktop
 >workstation?s	 >Why VMS?k  O VMS has an outstanding cluster capability. It has an excellent backup facility.xL It does load-balancing. It offers cluster-wide queues (batch, print, server)
 and disks,...   0 Have a look at "http://www.openvms.compaq.com/".   RegardsU    Christoph Gartmannw  H -----------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +------------ http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/english/menue.html -----------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:22:55 GMTi9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)s  Subject: Re: VMS on the desktop?+ Message-ID: <Z8oW+Hr3YbKG@eisner.decus.org>   N In article <8ftf6c$l50@fidoii.CC.Lehigh.EDU>, "dls2" <dls2@Lehigh.EDU> writes:  6 > Well, are X/Motif/CDE standard?  What is DECwindows?  : X and Motif are included in the "DECwindows Motif" product8 which is bundled with workstations (desktop machines) on both VAX and Alpha.   : On Alpha only there is a "new desktop" which includes most: of CDE but leaves out certain utilities that are otherwise: covered in DECwindows Motif (such as the CDE TCP-only mail8 utility that introduces security vulnerabilities similar to those from Microsoft).e  2 > Are X/Motif/CDE branded by Compaq as DECwindows,6 > or is DECwindows a window manager for X, or neither?  9 DECwindows is a packaging of X, Motif (and most of CDE onr( Alpha) together with additional widgets.  0 > Are there any other GUI frontends to consider?  ; Not for a newcomer.  With great difficulty a pre-X graphicsT9 system can be made to work (under X, I believe) for thoseo< who absolutely require compatibility with their 1985 graphic environment.  9 > How intuitive, and easy to use, is the VMS command linen: > interface?  Are there any quirks worth noting?  Does the; > VMS command line interface get used often?  Is there much  > reason to use it, or not?r  : The VMS command line interface is extensively used and has> very natural commands to someone who is accustomed to English.? They are somewhat strange to those who have never seen anythinge> other than a Unix machine and presume that commands should not be English words.   = For those who are programming, the command line is essential. < As with all operating systems, those who are only doing data: entry are better off if their GUI application activates on= login and never gives them a command line prompt.  The systemrA manager who set that up for them, however, used the command line.e  > > On the desktop, is it likely to be perceived any differently: > than a Un*x workstation?  Other than stability, does VMS7 > have any benefits when used as a desktop workstation?t  = It will definitely be different if one uses the command line,c) since the commands are not Unix commands.e  $ The windowing system looks the same.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:58:02 +0000 / From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>r  Subject: re: VMS on the desktop?6 Message-ID: <009EA387.FFC94748.5@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>   > 3 > >How does VMS fare as a desktop operating system?e > >From a sysop's perspective? > >From a user's perspective?  > I > It's very stable.  How it looks from a user's point of view depends on s > what the user wants to do.  F From a sysop's perspective its an absolute dream ... PROVIDED that all7 the VMS workstations are clustered. If that's the case:t  B Adding another desktop is a one-off process taking an hour or two.6 Per-user administration scales as the number of users.: Per-system administration scales as the number of systems.6 Per-disk administration scales as the number of disks.9 Any user can log into any system with no problems at all. B Everything works as per the documentation, which is comprehensive.  D The fly in the ointment is the cost of VMScluster licenses. And thatH most users want applications on their desks that you can't get for VMS.    	Yours,s
 		Nigel Arnotn- 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                      7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:10:26 -0400o2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>  Subject: Re: VMS on the desktop?7 Message-ID: <200005170810_MC2-A546-D546@compuserve.com>g   Message text written by "dls2"    5 >Well, are X/Motif/CDE standard?  What is DECwindows?w1 >Are X/Motif/CDE branded by Compaq as DECwindows, 5 >or is DECwindows a window manager for X, or neither?y > I         X/Motif/CDE are standard but licensed and installed separately. =u  E DECwindows was DEC's original implementation of X-windows ca. 1988. =t  J DECwindows was replaced by DECwindows/Motif, ca. 1994.  CDE arrived later= ,m don't remember just when.e	         =l  / >Are there any other GUI frontends to consider?n  J         Only if you are running very old VAX hardware.  There was a produ= ctF called VWS or VAX Worstation Software.   As a windowing system, it wasJ pretty primitive but it ran much faster, on the hardware of the day, than=  ) the DECwindows software that replaced it.    >c8 >How intuitive, and easy to use, is the VMS command line9 >interface?  Are there any quirks worth noting?  Does thea: >VMS command line interface get used often?  Is there much >reason to use it, or not?  A         The command line interface is called DCL (Digital CommandeJ Language).  The verbs are mostly English words.   The syntax and semantic= sRJ are consistant because, unlike Unix, all command lines are processed by t= heJ same parser, and because it was/is Digital/Compaq policy to make qualifie= rsH have the same meaning or connotation with each command; e.g. /FULL meansJ pretty much the same thing with any command that takes it as a qualifier.=   =t  J If you are a Unix weenie, it stifles your creativity because you can't ge= t J sixteen different commands by capitalizing various letters of a four lett= erD command; MAIL, mail, Mail, MAiL, etc, all do exactly the same thing.  F         There is every reason to use DCL.  It's a programming languageJ albeit a limited one.  It's how you communicate with the system.   If you=  J need to do some job every day, you don't sit there pointing and clicking,=  J you put the commands in a file and submit it as a batch job.  You can mak= en1 it resubmit itself for the same time tomorrow.  =t       >c= >On the desktop, is it likely to be perceived any differently 9 >than a Un*x workstation?  Other than stability, does VMSt6 >have any benefits when used as a desktop workstation? >o  G         Fewer applications are "windowed".  Most people open a bunch oflA DECterm windows and use the command line interface.   Many of the B applications that are windowed have both a windows interface and a character cell interface.1    	 >Why VMS?s  J         We think VMS is the friendliest Operating System available.  When=  J you make a mistake, it tries very hard to tell you just what you did wron= g.J  This doesn't mean that there aren't applications that just tell you "Err= orJ 5" or "File Not Found" without telling you what file it couldn't find; la= zyE programmers are everywhere!  It does mean that the O/S itself and itsC( utilities are very good in this respect.  J         VMS is generally much more secure than Unix or Windows.  It's muc= h J more difficult to "hack into" VMS than Unix or Windows.   There have been=  J problems in the past and there will doubtless be problems in the future b= utJ they were, and we expect will be, much less numerous than the problems wi= thG other operating systems.  Digital, now Compaq, fixes such problems whenlJ they are identified; it's not necessary to write a Robert Morris style wo= rm$ or a "Backend 2000" to get action. =    7         I could go on but I'm too lazy to write a book!-   ------------------------------   Date: 17 May 2000 12:03:47 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)  Subject: Re: VMS on the desktop?. Message-ID: <8fu1r3$sbp$2@info.service.rug.nl>  8 In article <8ftpsv$c11$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>, Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.jyu.fi> writes:   , >Phillip Helbig <helbig@astro.rug.nl> wrote: >....@K >> One of the strengths of VMS is that the operating system is exactly the  I >> same from a small desktop workstation to a huge, multi-million dollar v
 >> server. >wG >Yes. And I don't know of any other os that so well suites every place.t0 >Windows and/or Linux will be there soon though.  H I doubt it.  I have to use Microsoft stuff from time to time (OK, I'm a H prostitute, but the money is good!), after having worked with computers F for 10 years (but never PCs).  It is incredible how low quality it is.  I >It's sad, but we need Microsoft stuff. For example some documents is wwwi$ >are only in Microsoft file formats.   Complain, don't be assimilated!    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:50:35 -0400 ) From: "Ebinger . Eric" <EEbinger@drc.com>S  Subject: RE: VMS on the desktop?B Message-ID: <7162F87E9EF4D311BA9900805FC1D3AE7A6137@and02.drc.com>   > -----Original Message-----) > From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam2> > As with all operating systems, those who are only doing data< > entry are better off if their GUI application activates on? > login and never gives them a command line prompt.  The system   ? This is NOT true.  If you are really doing data entry you don'tS? want a GUI at all.  (A menu system, yes, a GUI, no.)  Having a iE "you have mail" window pop up while you are typing in the data is not'G my idea of fun.  Neither is switching from the keyboard to the mouse toa the keyboard to the mouse...    F Yes, I spent a summer doing keypunching to put myself through college.C Somehow, the idea of spending eight hours a day entering names and rI address using a Windows applications makes me break out in a cold sweat. e   Eric Ebinger   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:52:41 +0000 (   )o3 From: Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com>   Subject: Re: VMS on the desktop?J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10005171548470.28598-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com>  " On 17 May 2000, Osmo Kujala wrote:  J > It's sad, but we need Microsoft stuff. For example some documents is www% > are only in Microsoft file formats.t  J That's not nessecarilly true.  I've found some pretty creative ways aroundI microsoft stuff, myself.  You should see my unix shell script that strips A all the garbage out of microsoft word documents, and prints their G plain-text content -- it works pretty well, and part of that plain-text H content is the identifying information that microshaft's program embedds in the document!  G I mention that specifically, because I think that the equivelant on VMSk wouldn't be difficult.  G I'll grant that word is an easy one, and other formats would be harder,t: but I offer that as proof that you don't "need" microsoft.  I Think about it, how often do you need all the extra garbage in word filese anyway?x   Regards,   Chris   O ===============================================================================i@ "My two cents"			(http://rootworks.com/twocentsworth.cgi?128562)= Christopher Smith(chriss@pubserv.com)			Prgramer^W Programmere Prime Synergy of Champaign, IL.m% -------------------------------------.I "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes and H weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes; and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949 XO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------d   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 17:51:49 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>   Subject: Re: VMS on the desktop?) Message-ID: <3922CE25.1F9A6B96@bbc.co.uk>t   "Ebinger . Eric" wrote:e   >? >eH > Yes, I spent a summer doing keypunching to put myself through college.D > Somehow, the idea of spending eight hours a day entering names andJ > address using a Windows applications makes me break out in a cold sweat. >n  L Doing anything repetitive with windows is a pain. When I scan I counted over  F 10 mouse moves required just to scan another sheet, as the scan window closesL and has to be reactivated and setup for each page. This is progress? Oh, and  I an "apply" button used by many X and Mac applications seems like an aliene
 concept to M$    >t > Eric Ebinger   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukt  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:21:42 -0600e1 From: Glen Martin <GLENMARK@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu>o+ Subject: Re: Wildfire and the future of VMS 4 Message-ID: <39228ED6.43FC154D@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu>   JF Mezei wrote:o  J > If this is a media event and VMS is featured prominently, then I will beI > impressed. If CNN talks about it in its business news, I will be doubly L > impressed. If CNN not only talks about how Alpha is faster than Intel, butM > also how reliable VMS is, I may have a heart attack and die a happy man :-)y > :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)-  H Judging from a search of CNN.COM, CNN didn't mention the event at all... *sigh*   Glen   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:28:13 -0400>  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com" Subject: Re: Wildfire Announcement4 Message-ID: <C22568E2.0043AB6B.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  4 /Please respond to Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam   /To:  Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comv /cc:# /Subject: Re: Wildfire Announcemento /h /s< /In article <8frst1$5p6$1@willow.cc.kcl.ac.uk>, Allan Hawdon# <udaa460@axolotl.kcl.ac.uk> writes:a9 /> Arthur E. Ragosta <ragosta@merlin.arc.nasa.gov> wrote:  /  /> : Prices!  I need prices!!  />J /> : Can anyone who attended/listened to the announcement tell me what the
 /> : entry /> : price is for the GS80.n />E /> Below $100,000. Various other people have suggested about $80,000. H /> However the GS80 seems to be a mite messy to upgrade. Reading betweenI /> the lines it looks like the GS80 is a marketing model, just so as they G /> can get something in under 100K. What they really seem to be pushing- /> is the GS160/GS320. /-C /I don't understand why converting a GS80 to a GS160 should be muchhC /worse than converting a GS160 to a GS320.  Is it the fact that PCItB /busses and QBBs are mixed into the same cabinet ?  I think all ofB /that would be swamped by the general problem of having to upgrade /at all. /i? The GS80 is 2 quad modules directly connected to each other; noo@ switching backplane is needed.  Any more quads and the cross-barB swithcing backplane (with a bigger cabinet, IIRC) is required. TheE existing quad modules can be moved, however.  Another nice feature is D that in different quads different versions of the CPU can run so theG processors in any existing quads do not have to be swapped, but can be.i   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:06:54 GMTq" From: Art Rice <arice@ue.itug.org>" Subject: Re: Wildfire Announcement8 Message-ID: <r165is4skalpgqodj208t7o5on467qgi8d@4ax.com>  E On 16 May 2000 16:27:13 GMT, Allan Hawdon <udaa460@axolotl.kcl.ac.uk>e wrote:  7 >Arthur E. Ragosta <ragosta@merlin.arc.nasa.gov> wrote:r >: It's finally on the website!i >oJ >: Although you would think that they would know better by now (based upon	 >: all ofeK >: the grousing in this forum) to not introduce their latest machines with:a >qK >: "The new Alphaserver GS80 is the industry's fastest RISC Unix server..."  >oF >: It does mention that it runs VMS at the bottom of the page... Geez. >pH >I was at the London launch today. Surprisingly VMS was mentioned a lot J >more often than I expected but of course always after Tru64. Linux hardly, >seemed to figure. Next year they suggested.  7 IBM will be announcing Native Linux on S/390 next week.s7 http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,36395,00.htmlb  4 Possibly 200 copies of Linux running simultaneously.   >  >: Prices!  I need prices!!r >pH >: Can anyone who attended/listened to the announcement tell me what the >: entry >: price is for the GS80.r >,C >Below $100,000. Various other people have suggested about $80,000..F >However the GS80 seems to be a mite messy to upgrade. Reading betweenG >the lines it looks like the GS80 is a marketing model, just so as theyrF >can get something in under 100K. What they really seem to be pushing I >is the GS160/GS320. It was nice however to see a big shot from Oracle UK 3 >there - at least hints at some sort of commitment.9   -- e
 Art Rice   *# # Special Data Processing Corporation & --------------------------------------' All opinions expressed are mine and do  % not reflect the views of my employer.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:32:23 +0200r= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>Z" Subject: Re: Wildfire Announcement) Message-ID: <39229F67.5F31CAED@gtech.com>    Art Rice wrote:.9 > IBM will be announcing Native Linux on S/390 next week.D9 > http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,36395,00.htmlo   That article sucks.b  @ 1)  Mainframes are described as CPU-powerfull number-chrunchers.=     The fact is that mainframes are usually very IO-powerfull -     and only has relative moderate CPU power.e  A 2)  If those Linux instances run on top of MVS, then they are notlB     what I will call native. If they run directly on the hardware,=     then uptime will undoubtetly drop from MVS level to LinuxC
     level.   etc.etc.   Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:44:04 +0100a- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>o" Subject: Re: Wildfire Announcement) Message-ID: <3922A224.38DA9608@bbc.co.uk>e   JF Mezei wrote:   ] > BBC business news, as aired by PBS in the USA, had a snippet about the Compaq announcement.o >eP > "New servers for very large companies with millions of computers, and they are > very expensive". >eO > Also showed the snippet where Capellas admits that Compaq has had a hard time ; > shedding their "PC company" image. No mention of "Alpha".   K The beeb have also not been mentioning the words Outlook and Microsoft whendG reporting on the ILOVEYOU virus or other similar incidents in the past.      --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk,  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofe MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:48:06 GMTn" From: Art Rice <arice@ue.itug.org>" Subject: Re: Wildfire Announcement8 Message-ID: <3bb5isgnjj5mq1ag7oj4se7ob4of9jmrvh@4ax.com>  / On Wed, 17 May 2000 15:32:23 +0200, Arne Vajhje <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> wrote:?   >Art Rice wrote:: >> IBM will be announcing Native Linux on S/390 next week.: >> http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,36395,00.html >o >That article sucks. >oA >1)  Mainframes are described as CPU-powerfull number-chrunchers.m> >    The fact is that mainframes are usually very IO-powerfull. >    and only has relative moderate CPU power. >hB >2)  If those Linux instances run on top of MVS, then they are notC >    what I will call native. If they run directly on the hardware,e> >    then uptime will undoubtetly drop from MVS level to Linux >    level.r >c	 >etc.etc.  >t >Arne   @ You have to remember that this is one of the agencies that still? thinks Compaq is a PC company.  (mostly because Compaq does notoC know how to advertise anything but PCs.  They do advertise the good * stuff to us but we already know about it.): It stands to reason that they would misdefine "mainframe."F Recently I have heard many lay people decribe HP9000 and SUN E10000 asF mainframes.  They are not but under the really old definition of beingC the "main" computer within the corporation you can see where peoplea make that mistake.  E The article does state that Linux would run natively on the S/390 andnF then goes on to describe them as "virtual" servers (presumably runningD on MVS?)  It does make one wonder what IBMs definition of Native is.< I'd like to see the official announcement when it comes out.  D On point number two I agree totally.  The Linux instances should fit4 right in with the UNIX average of 35 hours downtime.   --  
 Art Rice   *#B# Special Data Processing Corporationu& --------------------------------------' All opinions expressed are mine and do e% not reflect the views of my employer."   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 18:19:56 GMTf9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) " Subject: Re: Wildfire Announcement+ Message-ID: <1ZhUIPb0D97A@eisner.decus.org>n  ] In article <3bb5isgnjj5mq1ag7oj4se7ob4of9jmrvh@4ax.com>, Art Rice <arice@ue.itug.org> writes:   G > The article does state that Linux would run natively on the S/390 andiH > then goes on to describe them as "virtual" servers (presumably runningF > on MVS?)  It does make one wonder what IBMs definition of Native is.  > In the S/390 environment the difference is up to the customer.< Since the instruction set can be fully virtualized, the copy; of Linux you run as a "guest operating system" is identical=* to the copy you would run on the raw iron.  4 Formerly you could run VM under MVS or MVS under VM.6 If Linux can run on the raw iron it can run as a guest under either of those.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 19:18:19 GMT 4 From: kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org.spamnot (Bob Kaplow)" Subject: Re: Wildfire Announcement+ Message-ID: <keSwA7pSFES5@eisner.decus.org>x  g In article <jq+BUixJsPfD@eisner.decus.org>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:rD > I don't understand why converting a GS80 to a GS160 should be muchD > worse than converting a GS160 to a GS320.  Is it the fact that PCIC > busses and QBBs are mixed into the same cabinet ?  I think all ofqC > that would be swamped by the general problem of having to upgradei	 > at all.y  I The GS80 doesn't include a Global switch, the infrastructure necessary tooJ connect multiple fireboxes together. Looking at the packaging, it would beE a complete teardown and rebuild into new cabinets with new parts etc.a  J If you need the growth, order a GS160-08 which ships with one firebox, butJ can be expanded allthe way to a GS320. If you get a GS80 and do need more, it's a forklift upgrade.   	Bob Kaplow	  E SPAM:	spamrecycle@ChooseYourmail.com	uce@ftc.gov	postmaster@127.0.0.1f   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:38:30 +0000o/ From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>sF Subject: Re: Wildfire Announcement: Michael Capellas, can you say VMS?7 Message-ID: <009EA385.4557DC3C.18@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>s   > C > >with and without the silent "Open" prefix, and without shame and D > >apparently not as a mere afterthought. That was good. At the same@ > >time, though, there was no niche where VMS was given pride ofD > >place. Capellas also acknowledged, yet again, Compaq's inadequate
 > >marketing.  > E > And here he had the chance to mention VMS to the general televisiondE > audience and he blew it!  If he and Compaq really felt that OpenVMSsD > (silent prefix or not) was not something to hang his head in shame& > about then why didn't he mention it? >   E Just possibly, because in a ten-minute interview for a general-public D audience with a know-nothing Microsoft-indoctrinated interviewer whoI presumably wasn't being paid for or pre-briefed by Compaq, it could have hH been rather unsafe. What would the interviewer say next? (An interviewerG who thought that a Wildfire might contain i820-based MoBo's, remember!)w  L I've seen quite enough politicians dropped into holes by innocently cluelessA interviewers, let alone hostile ones. Politicians are specialists;@ in (mis)leading and steering interviewers, yet it still happens.  F I think we should wait and see how the story develops in the technicalJ press, where Compaq briefings might be read, where Compaq can legitimatelyH smooch the journalists, and where Compaq can reasonably influence thingsG with its advertizing. that's where we'll first notice a change of tune,c should there be one.   		Nigel.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:20:49 +0100s  From: steven.reece@quintiles.comF Subject: Re: Wildfire Announcement: Michael Capellas, can you say VMS?> Message-ID: <802568E2.0043DE0A.00@qedilc01.qedi.quintiles.com>  C Nigel Arnot (sysmgr at maxwell dot ph dot kcl dot ac dot uk) wrote: O >>>I've seen quite enough politicians dropped into holes by innocently clueless A interviewers, let alone hostile ones. Politicians are specialists'@ in (mis)leading and steering interviewers, yet it still happens.  F I think we should wait and see how the story develops in the technicalJ press, where Compaq briefings might be read, where Compaq can legitimatelyH smooch the journalists, and where Compaq can reasonably influence thingsG with its advertizing. that's where we'll first notice a change of tune,1 should there be one.<<<i  H But from what I've seen of the "technical press" in the UK (the likes ofI Computing, Computer Weekly, TheRegister and so on), they are generally asaO clueless as any other interviewer unless you're talking of billyboxes and Inteln based systems.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:44:37 -0500c/ From: "Stuart, Ed" <Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com>d3 Subject: Windows Front End to VT Based ApplicationsoT Message-ID: <CB874B506A79D1118FBC006097306B8903120218@ohms.electric.ci.austin.tx.us>  G Hello all;  we've been introduced to a product from Seagull that puts a L Windows GUI front end on IBM 3270/5270 based applications.  To the mainframeI or AS/400 the session looks like a telnet terminal session, to the client K the application has a Windows GUI.  We also have some VMS applications thathJ are being run via a terminal emulator and would like to use a product likeJ the one from Seagull to put a Windows front end on these applications.  DoL you know of such a product for VMS systems?  More detailed information about? the Seagull product can be found at http://www.seagullsw.com/. ?  $ Ed Stuart                           ( Manager, Systems and Desktop Services	   Information Technology Services  City of Austin, Austin Energys Ed.Stuart@austinenergy.com  + "Glittering prizes and endless compromises f. shatter the illusion of integrity" - Neil Pert  B *Please apply a generous amount of all the usual disclaimers here*   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.275 ************************