1 INFO-VAX	Sun, 21 May 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 282       Contents:7 Re: Creating a new user using a system service...HOW??? 7 Re: Creating a new user using a system service...HOW??? - Re: crystal clear vms filesystem from nt side - gettimeofday() and usleep() for VMS pre-V7.0? 1 Re: gettimeofday() and usleep() for VMS pre-V7.0? 1 Re: gettimeofday() and usleep() for VMS pre-V7.0? 1 Re: gettimeofday() and usleep() for VMS pre-V7.0? 1 Re: gettimeofday() and usleep() for VMS pre-V7.0? 1 Re: gettimeofday() and usleep() for VMS pre-V7.0?  Re: GS320/GS160 Stream Results) Re: How to share a VMS disk drive with NT  Re: KOffice -> OVMS? Re: KOffice -> OVMS?$ LOSE WEIGHT WHILE SLEEPING!! (51776)5 Re: Software for Grownups (Was: Re: "Modern" OpenVMS) 5 Re: Software for Grownups (Was: Re: "Modern" OpenVMS) 5 Re: Software for Grownups (Was: Re: "Modern" OpenVMS) 5 Re: Software for Grownups (Was: Re: "Modern" OpenVMS)  Swapped out process  Re: VMS on the desktop?  Re: VMS on the desktop?  Re: VMS on the desktop?  Re: VMS on the desktop? & Re: VMS on the desktop? (.doc dangers) Re: Voluntary Milking System Voluntary Milking System Re: Win a DS10 Re: Win a DS10 Re: Win a DS10 Re: Win a DS10 Re: Win a DS10 Re: Win a DS10 Re: Win a DS10 Re: Win a DS10 Re: Win a DS10 Re: Win a DS10 Re: Win a DS10 Re: Win a DS10 Re: Win a DS10 Re: Win a DS10 Re: Win a DS10 Re: Win a DS10 Re: Win a DS10 Re: Win a DS10 Re: Win a DS10 Re: Win a DS10 Re: Win a DS10 Re: Win a DS10 WWW.DSLRESOURCE.NET   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 20 May 2000 18:36:26 -04004 From: "Robert Deininger" <rdeininger@mindspring.com>@ Subject: Re: Creating a new user using a system service...HOW???) Message-ID: <B54C8BAC-6BD45@165.247.45.5>   J On Wed, May 17, 2000 2:30 PM, Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote: > G >In article <01BFC01A.8987BC00.paul.mccabe@cognotec.com>, Paul McCabe < " >paul.mccabe@cognotec.com> writes:J >:Has anyone out there know of a way to create a new user in the UAF using a  >:system service.  > G >  There is no such supported interface, unfortunately -- once the user G >  record entry has been added by AUTHORIZE, you can do most everything E >  else via $setuai.  But there is no supported way -- other than via E >  AUTHORIZE -- to initially add a record for a new user into SYSUAF.   E One could pre-create a gob of dummy users with authorize.  They would B be DISUERed of course, and the home directory, default LOGIN.COM, F default command table, etc could be set to harmless values as an extraH protection against accidental clearing of the DISUSER flag.  Make enoughC dummy users to last a week, a month, or whatever suits the needs of 	 the site.   F Then, when "new" user entry is needed, a program could simply find andD modify the next available dummy user, without creating a new process to run authorize.   D I guess it goes without saying that the ability to create a new user> record should be added to the system services some day (soon).       ---------------------------  Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 20:56:28 -0400 , From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>@ Subject: Re: Creating a new user using a system service...HOW???> Message-ID: <hshubs-4682AC.20562820052000@news.mindspring.com>  = In article <B54C8BAC-6BD45@165.247.45.5>, "Robert Deininger"  " <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote:  G >Then, when "new" user entry is needed, a program could simply find and E >modify the next available dummy user, without creating a new process  >to run authorize.  E Unfortunately, the program couldn't change the username, unless I am   forgetting something.    --   Howard S Shubs, the Denim Adept    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 20:51:31 GMT - From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley) 6 Subject: Re: crystal clear vms filesystem from nt side, Message-ID: <3926fa6b.25084169@news.wku.edu>  + On Sat, 20 May 2000 18:42:50 +0900, "Kejan" $ <kejan99@soback.kornet21.net> wrote:  
 >John- et al,  > J >Without running the VMS BACKUP command, you cannot have multiple files ofL >the same name and different versions  (FILENAME.EXT;1  ;2 ;3  ;400 etc ) in >your .ZIP file.   Sure you can.  Use:   #    $ zip/vms/keep_version xxx *.*;*    or    $ zip "-V" "-w" xxx *.*;*     Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/ ; goathunter@Goatley.com      http://www2.wku.edu/www/hunter/ < Check out Dangerous Dwarf:  http://www2.wku.edu/www/chesbro/   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 17:43:33 -0500 (CDT)  From: sms@antinode.org6 Subject: gettimeofday() and usleep() for VMS pre-V7.0?) Message-ID: <00052017433314@antinode.org>   G    Will anyone offer source for gettimeofday() and/or usleep() suitable G for pre-V7.0 VMS, or do I need to do actual work?  I was playing around F with a relatively recent version of CDrecord/mkisofs, and ran into the3 CRTL deficiency when I went from V7.2 back to V6.2.   H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home) C    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work) G    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work) 9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 19:43:30 -0400 " From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org>: Subject: Re: gettimeofday() and usleep() for VMS pre-V7.0?8 Message-ID: <4.3.1.0.20000520194252.01e66da0@24.8.96.48>  2 At 05:43 PM 5/20/00 -0500, sms@ANTINODE.ORG wrote:I >    Will anyone offer source for gettimeofday() and/or usleep() suitable H >for pre-V7.0 VMS, or do I need to do actual work?  I was playing aroundG >with a relatively recent version of CDrecord/mkisofs, and ran into the 4 >CRTL deficiency when I went from V7.2 back to V6.2.  L Try the backport library and see if it does what you need. The instructions J for using it are in some of the docs installed with recent (5.6+) of Dec C   					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"------------------- 2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and even ;                                       teddy bears get drunk    ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 19:05:43 -0500 (CDT)  From: sms@antinode.org: Subject: Re: gettimeofday() and usleep() for VMS pre-V7.0?) Message-ID: <00052019054300@antinode.org>   " From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org>  N > Try the backport library and see if it does what you need. The instructions L > for using it are in some of the docs installed with recent (5.6+) of Dec C  H    I use "DEC C V6.0-001 on OpenVMS VAX V6.2" (the normal Hobbyist kit),E and I thought that I installed all there was to install, but I suffer  from things like:          ("string.h") #   if __CRTL_VER >= 70000000 %     char *strdup(__const_char_ptr64); 	 #   endif          ("time.h") #if __CRTL_VER >= 70000000 [...] =         int gettimeofday (struct timeval *__tp, void *__tzp);  [...]  #endif         (unistd.h")  #   if __CRTL_VER >= 70000000  [...] ,        int usleep (__useconds_t __useconds);	 #   endif   A    Even I can make a "strdup()", but the others are less trivial.   $    Am I missing something (obvious)?  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home) C    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work) G    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work) 9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 20:58:29 -0400 " From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org>: Subject: Re: gettimeofday() and usleep() for VMS pre-V7.0?8 Message-ID: <4.3.1.0.20000520205649.01e42920@24.8.96.48>  2 At 07:05 PM 5/20/00 -0500, sms@ANTINODE.ORG wrote:# >From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org>  > C > > Try the backport library and see if it does what you need. The   > instructionsN > > for using it are in some of the docs installed with recent (5.6+) of Dec C > J >    I use "DEC C V6.0-001 on OpenVMS VAX V6.2" (the normal Hobbyist kit),F >and I thought that I installed all there was to install, but I suffer >from things like: >  >       ("string.h") >#   if __CRTL_VER >= 70000000' >     char *strdup(__const_char_ptr64); 
 >#   endifC >    Even I can make a "strdup()", but the others are less trivial.  > & >    Am I missing something (obvious)?  E Yes, the backport library. Read the docs that got installed with the  D compiler and they'll show you what you need to use it. The backport G library's basically most of the 7.x runtime made available to programs  ! running on older versions of VMS.    					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"------------------- 2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and even ;                                       teddy bears get drunk    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 20:13:31 -0500 ) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> : Subject: Re: gettimeofday() and usleep() for VMS pre-V7.0?7 Message-ID: <179401bfc2c1$c8f8f9e0$020a0a0a@xile.realm>   * See the file(s) SYS$LIBRARY:DECC$*.README.  L You need to define __CRTL_VER to match the C runtime library on your system.H If you have installed any of the ECO kits from the patches FTP site, the instructions could vary.  D The gettimeofday() routine can also be found in the SAMBA_VMS source> distribution, and will work at least as far back as VMS 5.5-2.  H I do not have an alternate source for usleep(), but it should not be too  hard to come up with a fake one.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 20:14:06 -0500 (CDT)  From: sms@antinode.org: Subject: Re: gettimeofday() and usleep() for VMS pre-V7.0?) Message-ID: <00052020140655@antinode.org>   E    Ah.  "SYS$LIBRARY:DECC$CRTL.README".  I must pursue this.  Thanks.       SMS.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 17:59:42 GMT 0 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <shannon@world.std.com>' Subject: Re: GS320/GS160 Stream Results & Message-ID: <FuvE0x.3I2@world.std.com>   <snip>= > Work continues apace on Marvel (the 256 CPU follow with EV7 D > technology) and other servers on the Roadmap.  EV7 has interestingE > technologies to make for a much strong server.  On-chip L2, on-chip E > memory controller and on-chip network controller.  Marvel is a much % > more powerful server than Wildfire.  > D > By the way, Wildfire is almost 2 years late and under constructionB > for 5 so it falls somewhere halfway in your analysis above.  OneF > other tidbit, 39 AlphaServer 8400s ran simulation/verification for 2D > years straight prior ot rollout and are still running full tilt on > the next box.   L Marvel should show up by the end of next year (EV7 chip availability being a gating factor).   G When Marvel comes along, WildFire users will remove the QBBs and Global I Switches, slide in new drawers, and enjoy as many as 64 CPUs in a box. (A L somewhat bigger box (37U), and a box decked out in Compaq's new carbon-black
 paint job.  I Multiple Marvel boxes can be linked together to permit larger CPU counts. H The architectural limit is 512 CPUs, whether Compaq will offer a 512-CPUI configuration remains to be seen. Don't expect to see such a beast in the  first Marvel release.   
 Charlie Matco  Matco Knows Compaq www.acersoft.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 23:22:59 -0400 # From: sol gongola <sol@adldata.com> 2 Subject: Re: How to share a VMS disk drive with NT' Message-ID: <39275693.41F4@adldata.com>   2 VMS UCX includes support for NFS client and server1 NFS can be purchased for the windows pc platform.    sol gongola   =  J > Is there a way to map a VMS share or drive to make it available for bot=6 h VMS users and NT users without the use of Pathworks?J > Some of our departments share files under both platforms and are not fa=J miliar with FTP and scripts will not do because file locations and names =J vary also we have been experiencing lots of problems with the Pathworks l=J icensing (server 5.0F and client 6 & 7) we are also implementing the Wind=J ows 2000 workstations and we can=92t upgrade the VMS to a higher version =9 to upgrade Pathworks because of some applications issues! : > VMS cluster running OpenVMS 6.2, UCX 4.2, and DECnet 6.1 > Any help is appreciated. > Thanx    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 19:39:30 -0500 * From: Keith Brown <kbrown780@usfamily.net> Subject: Re: KOffice -> OVMS? + Message-ID: <39273042.DAD85B1@usfamily.net>    SysAdmin wrote:  > J > In the search for "office" software for OpenVMS, I was wondering if thisH > link might be of value to someone with the time and programming skills > to pursue it:  > , > http://koffice.kde.org/install-source.html > E > Not sure if this is of any value, but wanted to make mention of it.  >  > David J. Dachtera    David,  < I noticed that you got no responses to this suggestion but I; wanted to let you know that I concur. From what I have read < about KOffice, it will be exceptional application when it is	 complete.    --   Keith Brown  kbrown780@usfamily.net   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 01:32:17 GMT 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>  Subject: Re: KOffice -> OVMS? - Message-ID: <39273DBC.D3928D3B@earthlink.net>    Keith Brown wrote: >  > SysAdmin wrote:  > > L > > In the search for "office" software for OpenVMS, I was wondering if thisJ > > link might be of value to someone with the time and programming skills > > to pursue it:  > > . > > http://koffice.kde.org/install-source.html > > G > > Not sure if this is of any value, but wanted to make mention of it.  > >  > > David J. Dachtera  >  > David, > > > I noticed that you got no responses to this suggestion but I= > wanted to let you know that I concur. From what I have read > > about KOffice, it will be exceptional application when it is > complete.   E Yeah - I've been playing with Mandrake Linux on an Intel machine (the G Alpha version doesn't have all the app.'s yet). I was surprised to find F things like Kedit (equiv. to W/9x Notepad), Kmail (no W/9x equiv. fromH M$, but very much like Eudora) and more - even a W/98-ish browser. I wasE disappointed that Koffice is still pre-beta, but encouraged to find a > link to download the source. Made me wonder if this might be aE jumping-off point to begin a VMS port, and also made me wish I were a  C-coder/hacker.   G May be premature at this, but I predict that one possibility to give M$ A a run for their (our) money is Corel(Debian) Linux with KDE + the  K(apps).  G I also wanna read another thread further down in the list that mentions G Linux and Free-VMS in the subject line. That's been proposed before but   the VMS-purists pooh-poohed it.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems " http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:+ http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/    ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 01:26:01 -0400 (EDT) 5 From: "Cheri65049@cc-net.net" <Cheri65049@cc-net.net> - Subject: LOSE WEIGHT WHILE SLEEPING!! (51776) ' Message-ID: <66013.20574@feelyoung.com>    Lose Weight While Sleeping? . Sounds Impossible We Know........BUT It's Not!  C Over 50 million Americans are on a diet of some kind, and most are  E frustrated to tears! Dieting doesn't work for the simple reason.....  H  If you restrict calories, the body goes into starvation mode and starts7 consuming MUSCLE for food and storing FAT for reserves!   ' DREAM AWAY was developed by an M.D. and 4 Is Back by Extensive Scientific Research.  A unique  combination of nutrients .....; Actually Instructs Your Body to Use FAT rather than MUSCLE! : These ingredients work in synergy to help you achieve your.                     Health & Appearance Goals!  B Just Click http://www8.50megs.com/jas9/dream.html to find out more    k This message is being sent to you in compliance with the proposed Federal legislation for commercial e-mail n S.1618-SECTION 301). "Pursuant to Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618, further transmissions to you byo the sender of this e-mail may be stopped at no cost to you by clicking mailto:tat3@la.com and placing REMOVE ina the subject line. ' ***************************************( 3291   ------------------------------   Date: 20 May 2000 21:58:46 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)> Subject: Re: Software for Grownups (Was: Re: "Modern" OpenVMS), Message-ID: <8g71qm$910@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  X In article <24otsVws1xDQ@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes:   (not sure who said this) G  L >>>>Whah, whah!  Mommy, it doesn't look or feel or smell or work *just* like- >>>>unix so VMS is defective and neanderthal.e >>>dO >>>No, more like "Stupid machine! Do what the heck I want!" Limits suck. While sF >>>I personally dislike the C I/O system (it's pretty pathetic--fully J >>>synchronous I/O is for weenies) it's something I have to work with, so + >>>making it work better's not a bad thing.i >> S1 >> ... as do I and its degenerate bretheren, C++.  >> iK >> Still, instead of griping about a bit of unix code that doesn't port un- K >> changed into the VMS space, just change the code.  Or better yet, modifyeL >> the code to really make use of VMS features which are lacking in the unix	 >> realm.S  G I don't want VMS to be exactly like Unix.  However, 99.999% of the code-F I see now comes from Unix systems and every difference between the twoJ OS's which doesn't serve some positive function on OpenVMS (file versions,I for instance) is mostly just a PITA.  All of those 16 bit limits floating E around in the RMS and QIO system fall into this category.  Yes, theresG have to be some limits in size for buffers and such, but no, they don't>B have to be 16 bits.  In particular, no, write() shouldn't crap outK when passed a larger buffer - it should hide the 16 bit (or whatever limit)rD and write as much as it can - as documented in the manual and as it G actually does on other OS's.  16 bit limits may be appropriate for textoK objects, but they just are not up to the task for DNA sequences.  (Just fortJ reference, the biggest linear chunks of DNA that anybody knows about are aI couple of 100 Mb in length, so 32 bits is enough for any one biologicallylK relevant "record".)  Sure, the standards allow select() to work differentlylJ on different OS's, but how do I benefit from the OpenVMS version not beingD able to synch file and network IO?  Same deal for the differences inE the X11 implementations - what benefit do we obtain by having OpenVMSeI use an event flag where Unix uses something else?  (I don't consider the d= need to modify the code for every program I touch a benefit!)p  D Digital (and Compaq) tossed how many 100M$ into Affinity - producingE absolutely nothing of value for the customer base.  Is it too much toeG ask that they finally get on the ball and make the OS as compatible as  H possible with Unices - which is the source of all nonnative software forH OpenVMS?  I mean, look, half of their own products these days are coming@ over from Tru64, they'd be saving themselves work as well as us.G Realistically I expect them to divert this money either into the profittI margin or into Linux and Tru64 development, they must be doing that sincepG they have a huge profit margin on OpenVMS yet are constantly bemoaning l+ their lack of resources to do anything big.e  I I agree that much of the code that comes over from Unix is badly written,tH but I've got to deal with this stuff whether I want to or not.  DEC C isJ much better in handling Unixy code than it used to be, I just want them toB go the extra mile and really aim for compatibility except in thoseH instances where there is a compelling (and I mean COMPELLING) reason for6 a difference.  The gold standard I'd be happy with is:  N  1.  Most software builds with exactly the same commands on Tru64 and OpenVMS.-  2.  If it runs on Tru64, it runs on OpenVMS.t  @ One more thing, I'd really appreciate a cc/case_opt=as_is, whichA would somehow, and I don't care how, cause C programs to read the B case from the command line exactly as it's written, but not changeJ the behavior of other programs run from DCL.  (Should be possible, and RMSJ won't care when it finally gets a file name and finds that it's Foo ratherE than FOO or foo.) We all think it's bad design to have -p and -P meanpH different things, but they usually do, and neither I nor any of you haveK the time to change the command line interface on every such program that weeF encounter.  I used to use POSIX all the time to handle these sorts of G programs, but that's gone now (another really bad decision), so I need p another solution.r   Regards,     David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduo? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech a   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 21:10:30 -0400-* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>> Subject: Re: Software for Grownups (Was: Re: "Modern" OpenVMS)- Message-ID: <39273786.45FBA19D@tsoft-inc.com>i   David Mathog wrote:6 > Z > In article <24otsVws1xDQ@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) writes: >  > (not sure who said this) > N > >>>>Whah, whah!  Mommy, it doesn't look or feel or smell or work *just* like/ > >>>>unix so VMS is defective and neanderthal.@ > >>>rP > >>>No, more like "Stupid machine! Do what the heck I want!" Limits suck. WhileG > >>>I personally dislike the C I/O system (it's pretty pathetic--fullyAK > >>>synchronous I/O is for weenies) it's something I have to work with, sos- > >>>making it work better's not a bad thing.e > >>3 > >> ... as do I and its degenerate bretheren, C++.e > >>M > >> Still, instead of griping about a bit of unix code that doesn't port un-tM > >> changed into the VMS space, just change the code.  Or better yet, modifyuN > >> the code to really make use of VMS features which are lacking in the unix > >> realm.f > I > I don't want VMS to be exactly like Unix.  However, 99.999% of the code-H > I see now comes from Unix systems and every difference between the twoL > OS's which doesn't serve some positive function on OpenVMS (file versions,K > for instance) is mostly just a PITA.  All of those 16 bit limits floating-G > around in the RMS and QIO system fall into this category.  Yes, there I > have to be some limits in size for buffers and such, but no, they don't0D > have to be 16 bits.  In particular, no, write() shouldn't crap outM > when passed a larger buffer - it should hide the 16 bit (or whatever limit) E > and write as much as it can - as documented in the manual and as itcI > actually does on other OS's.  16 bit limits may be appropriate for texttM > objects, but they just are not up to the task for DNA sequences.  (Just formL > reference, the biggest linear chunks of DNA that anybody knows about are aK > couple of 100 Mb in length, so 32 bits is enough for any one biologicallyRM > relevant "record".)  Sure, the standards allow select() to work differentlyzL > on different OS's, but how do I benefit from the OpenVMS version not beingF > able to synch file and network IO?  Same deal for the differences inG > the X11 implementations - what benefit do we obtain by having OpenVMSiJ > use an event flag where Unix uses something else?  (I don't consider the? > need to modify the code for every program I touch a benefit!)( > F > Digital (and Compaq) tossed how many 100M$ into Affinity - producingG > absolutely nothing of value for the customer base.  Is it too much to8H > ask that they finally get on the ball and make the OS as compatible asJ > possible with Unices - which is the source of all nonnative software forJ > OpenVMS?  I mean, look, half of their own products these days are comingB > over from Tru64, they'd be saving themselves work as well as us.I > Realistically I expect them to divert this money either into the profit:K > margin or into Linux and Tru64 development, they must be doing that sincesH > they have a huge profit margin on OpenVMS yet are constantly bemoaning- > their lack of resources to do anything big.  > K > I agree that much of the code that comes over from Unix is badly written,tJ > but I've got to deal with this stuff whether I want to or not.  DEC C isL > much better in handling Unixy code than it used to be, I just want them toD > go the extra mile and really aim for compatibility except in thoseJ > instances where there is a compelling (and I mean COMPELLING) reason for8 > a difference.  The gold standard I'd be happy with is: > P >  1.  Most software builds with exactly the same commands on Tru64 and OpenVMS./ >  2.  If it runs on Tru64, it runs on OpenVMS.t > B > One more thing, I'd really appreciate a cc/case_opt=as_is, whichC > would somehow, and I don't care how, cause C programs to read the'D > case from the command line exactly as it's written, but not changeL > the behavior of other programs run from DCL.  (Should be possible, and RMSL > won't care when it finally gets a file name and finds that it's Foo ratherG > than FOO or foo.) We all think it's bad design to have -p and -P meanhJ > different things, but they usually do, and neither I nor any of you haveM > the time to change the command line interface on every such program that weeG > encounter.  I used to use POSIX all the time to handle these sorts of H > programs, but that's gone now (another really bad decision), so I need > another solution.t > 
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduy@ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech  N As I read the above, one question kept occuring to me.  If it's Unix code, andO it does what you want on a Unix box, then why are you trying to run it on VMS?  L When you're pounding in a nail, you don't use a screwdriver.  When turning a0 bolt or nut, only a few people use a hammer. :-)  N I don't think my question says anything about VMS or Unix.  It deals more withP the tool (software) you are using, or mis-using.  I'd guess that similar writtenN on VMS and using VMS specific techniques would also have some problems runningN on Unix, and porting the code might cause some headache.  In no way would thisH imply that Unix is a bad OS.  (There are other arguments for that. :-) )   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596; 170 Grimplin Road               E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.como Vanderbilt, PA  15486    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 03:16:20 GMTa9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)e> Subject: Re: Software for Grownups (Was: Re: "Modern" OpenVMS)+ Message-ID: <Vc5LQGO+Ysnu@eisner.decus.org>n  a In article <8g71qm$910@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:t  I > I don't want VMS to be exactly like Unix.  However, 99.999% of the code H > I see now comes from Unix systems and every difference between the twoL > OS's which doesn't serve some positive function on OpenVMS (file versions,K > for instance) is mostly just a PITA.  All of those 16 bit limits floating G > around in the RMS and QIO system fall into this category.  Yes, theremI > have to be some limits in size for buffers and such, but no, they don'toD > have to be 16 bits.  In particular, no, write() shouldn't crap outM > when passed a larger buffer - it should hide the 16 bit (or whatever limit)'F > and write as much as it can - as documented in the manual and as it  > actually does on other OS's.  C If the implementation of your favorite language does not agree with0@ the standard for that language, by all means report the problem.  C Note, however, that the freewheeling approach you propose for largelD buffers is diametrically opposed to the performance-centric approachF taken by $IO_PERFORM.  I would not want to see general VMS performanceF decreased to support one language, so whatever you want should be doneD in the C RTL and should be honestly described in this newsgroup as a, C on VMS problem, not a general VMS problem.  B I think if you were to try the GNAT Ada compiler on both Alpha VMSC and your favorite Unix you would find behaviour was compatible muchr more than for C.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 21:26:23 -0700g* From: "Nikita V. Belenki" <kit@nospam.net>> Subject: Re: Software for Grownups (Was: Re: "Modern" OpenVMS)< Message-ID: <MQJV4.18416$jZ3.264140@nuq-read.news.verio.net>  F "Larry Kilgallen" <Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam> wrote in message% news:Vc5LQGO+Ysnu@eisner.decus.org...a  K > > have to be some limits in size for buffers and such, but no, they don't>F > > have to be 16 bits.  In particular, no, write() shouldn't crap outH > > when passed a larger buffer - it should hide the 16 bit (or whatever limit)G > > and write as much as it can - as documented in the manual and as itm  > > actually does on other OS's.E > If the implementation of your favorite language does not agree withuB > the standard for that language, by all means report the problem.  C As far as I know, there is no write() in the C language standard ;)o   Kit. kit # kits.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 21:24:07 -0700,- From: Steven Xie <r33300@msghkg1.sps.mot.com>  Subject: Swapped out process3 Message-ID: <392764E7.ACA13833@msghkg1.sps.mot.com>-  H I got a question here. By looking at one of my system, there are several@ "swapped out" processes there and I believe they made the systemF performance down. I tried to use "show proce/id=id_number" to show theF details of the system, but after I did this, the "swapped out" processA just gone. Looks like the "show proce" command fix the "swap out"  process error.  G My question is, What's the reason cause the "swap out" process? And didi, the "show process" really fixed the problem?   Thanks,v Steven   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 17:12:46 -0400,, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>  Subject: Re: VMS on the desktop?> Message-ID: <hshubs-AD2E52.17124620052000@news.mindspring.com>  = In article <3926C5C9.910D3885@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble   <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:  I >Oh no, it's not that simple.  They'll all jump on their congressmen and t >allI >sorts of (useless) laws will be passed, mandating the death penalty for a	 >hackers,nK >and such garbage.  Since when has the (supposedly intellegent) human race   >ever.F >acted intellegently and addressed the problem instead of the symptom?   Never, good point.    E >that meant) and barely get by.  In any case, they cannot go down to n >WalMart andD >buy a home VMS system, so you lose them regardless.  But, they are 
 >learning,% >maybe slowly, but they are learning.M  H I hate to say this, but VMS is a dead issue.  I've managed to avoid M$, E but only by defecting to UNIX.  It was that or do QA/burger-flipping.m   --   Howard S Shubs, the Denim Adeptc   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 21:28:52 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  Subject: Re: VMS on the desktop?- Message-ID: <39273BD4.9A1A77F1@tsoft-inc.com>n   Howard S Shubs wrote:h > > > In article <3926C5C9.910D3885@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble > <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote: > J > >Oh no, it's not that simple.  They'll all jump on their congressmen and > >allJ > >sorts of (useless) laws will be passed, mandating the death penalty for > >hackers,hL > >and such garbage.  Since when has the (supposedly intellegent) human race > >evermH > >acted intellegently and addressed the problem instead of the symptom? >  > Never, good point. > F > >that meant) and barely get by.  In any case, they cannot go down to > >WalMart andE > >buy a home VMS system, so you lose them regardless.  But, they are  > >learning,' > >maybe slowly, but they are learning.e > I > I hate to say this, but VMS is a dead issue.  I've managed to avoid M$,rG > but only by defecting to UNIX.  It was that or do QA/burger-flipping.   P Well, that's pretty meaningless.  Everything alive today was dead before it cameK to life.  Trees are dormant each winter, but come back to life each summer.m  N VMS isn't dead.  For some, it's very alive today.  For some, it's dormant, andO could die, remain dormant, or come back to life.  For some it was never alive. )P Definitely not one size fits all.  There are some of us who have never left VMS, and some who never will.  M So, let me do a bit of fantasizing.  Vms gets office automation software that*K works quite well, and while being able to do the gee wizz stuff windoz does P today, it does it without any security problems.  (It's about time for JF to popL into the dream and start scraming 'ALL-IN-ONE')  Then some hardware, and notO necessarily complete computers, becomes available to allow this to happen at or P below the cost of wintel systems. (Actually quite a task given today's prices.) O And some bad stuff really starts to happen due to virus, worms, etc.  I can seexN some businesses starting to think that they really need to consider security. I Finally, (and this may be the biggest stretch), Compaq produces some good P marketing that reaches these people and convinces them that their future with MS isn't so rosy.  J Coming back to reality, I see that the above could happen.  It wouldn't beJ easy.  It also won't be nearly as profitable a selling Wildfire and MarvelL systems.  And, if the attempt is made, it will be easier if the users do notP have to learn a new user interface, which is where this discussion started.  No,L VMS isn't dead. But what it does in the future will depend upon vision, hardG work, and persistance.  It will also require some common sense, and noto3 attempting to direct a liquid stream into the wind.e   Dave   -- h4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596; 170 Grimplin Road               E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.comy Vanderbilt, PA  15486e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 22:10:13 -0400t, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>  Subject: Re: VMS on the desktop?> Message-ID: <hshubs-69109A.22101320052000@news.mindspring.com>  = In article <39273BD4.9A1A77F1@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble n <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:  H >work, and persistance.  It will also require some common sense, and not4 >attempting to direct a liquid stream into the wind.  I That last is why I've pretty much stopped pushing VMS.  I've lost enough s* ground to avoiding other things.  No more.   -- s Howard S Shubs, the Denim Adeptl   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 02:29:15 GMTr7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>O  Subject: Re: VMS on the desktop?, Message-ID: <39274B17.FA951A6@earthlink.net>   dls2 wrote:  > 8 > "Device controllers," as in "SCSI device controllers."  F Not quite. Although HSCs had more intimate knowledge of the disks that8 do HSJ/D/Z, there were not equivalent to a SCSI adapter.  - > How does the J in HSJ come to represent CI?o   Your guess is as good as any.u  g > What are SCS and MSCP?  ; SCS = System Communication Services. It is facilitated by aiE DEC-proprietary, non-routable protocol which is typically transported - over the CI in large, heavily loaded systems.o  G MSCP = Mass Storage Control Protocol. It allows HSx's, VAXes and AlphasrH (running OpenVMS) to serve their locally attached disks (and tapes usingF the TMSCP variant) to other nodes in a cluster. I believe (but I couldH be wrong in saying) MSCP messages are communicated between cluster nodes
 using SCS.   9 > Are ethernet and fast ethernet really so inadequate forg3 > relaying (SCS & MSCP?) messages between machines?   A Well, look at it this way: 10Mb ethernet Vs. 140Mb CI. Even 100Mbn( ethernet is not quite as fast as the CI.  ( > How, then, are server clusters linked?  G Intra-cluster communications (SCS) usually tarverse the CI. In DSSI andeA SCSI clusters, however, Ethernet is more likely the SCS transporteF medium. There is also MC (Memory Channel) in the newer Alphas and most recent OpenVMS versions.   > , > > > Would the servers likely be clustered?5 > > > Would the workstations and servers be clustered2( > > > together, or clustered seperately? > > G > > The servers with each other, probably. With the workstations, you'do > > likely see it both ways. > : > What is meant by "both ways."  That the workstations and= > servers may be clustered together, but workstations are nots8 > clustered among themselves?  If workstations are being? > clustered with servers, then aren't they also being clusteredh > with other workstations?  F Yes. However, it is also very likely to see VMS workstations which areA NOT clustered, either with each other or with any larger systems.m  d% > Where is this common UAF preserved?h  ; On any disk that is common to all the nodes in the cluster.t  e; > Supposedly it (InfoServer) also allowed for CD-R burning?   & Yes. However, as outlined at this URL:  0 http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/cdrom.html  * ...this can be done without an InfoServer.  b. > Why would such a large ramdisk be necessary?1 > I was thinking that the served disk image would00 > be written to disk, in fragments, as received.  8 I suppose you could write your own bootstrap to do this.  e5 > What is PICK?  A lost & forgotten operating system?a   Something like that...  e! > Samba is what MS Windows uses. o  C Well, no, not really. The MS protocol is called SMB, though I don'tiE recall right off what the acronym means. This is likely the source ofoD the name "SaMBa". There is(was?) a terminal emulation program calledB Rhumba from an outfit called Wall Data. So, I guess it's a natural! connection: SMB - SaMBa (*SIGH*).    > Is there anythingm8 > other than that, though, which might be unique to VMS?  E No, not really. M$ being the de facto standard set, this is about it.eF There is of course, NFS support in the various TCP/IP stacks available> for OpenVMS. There is a product called Advanced Server (p.k.a.F "Pathworks") which provides support and server functionality for these
 protocols.  # > > > What about database services?e > > G > > There exists a product called CONNX, and others, which provide ODBCaJ > > access to RMS files. I believe similar facilities may exist for OracleD > > and/or RDB, but these are not within my sphere of daily contact. > 8 > Nothing unique to VMS (or Un*x), though, I take it...?  G Not really, no. DECnet was always limited to communications between twofH DECnet nodes, and did not (originally) include disk/file/print services.   --   David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systemss" http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:+ http://home.earthlink.net/~djesys/vms/soho/e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 19:57:52 -0500r* From: Keith Brown <kbrown780@usfamily.net>/ Subject: Re: VMS on the desktop? (.doc dangers)., Message-ID: <39273490.72A77C10@usfamily.net>   Bill Todd wrote: > < > Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> wrote in message3 > news:009EA50B.1CB7C4E5.26@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk...k > > >o@ > > > Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> wrote in message7 > > > news:009EA44E.F405F53D.31@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk...a > > >a	 > > > ...( > > >rL > > > > Get the word out: reading any .doc file is like unsafe sex, it could > beI > > > > lethal (to your PC, your business, your continued employment ...)e > > > N > > > While not in a position to refute the above assertion, I do question it: > itG > > > looks a great deal like others that I *do* know to be significanto > > > exaggerations. > > >aN > > > A while ago, my impression was that the only threat in reading a .doc MSJ > > > file was macro viruses, which could only affect other Word documents > thatN > > > you created or edited.  If so, using Word only to read such things wouldB > > > seem relatively safe.  Has this changed (e.g., are there now > embedded-scriptM< > > > facilities that execute without warning and without an) > > > appropriately-restrictive sandbox)?h > >vK > > If word is set to warn about macros, you'll get a warning. But when didt& > > you last check your word settings? > M > I've never checked my Word settings, since it's not on my machine.  WordpadiK > is, but doesn't have such settings (which I hope means it doesn't executeoL > macros - it certainly doesn't display things like headers and footers, letF > alone allow them to be created, but does a usually acceptable job ofI > presenting simple Word documents on the screen, though it sometimes hase > problems with tables). > % >  And if you're running Outhouse andcM > > IE with the maximum security, you'll get warnings about scripts. But whena% > > did you last check your settings?e > K > When I was experimenting with seeing exactly how the virus warning dialogeN > worked a few days ago.  But since I always have them set to prompt (save forL > the ones that are totally disabled), and never execute *anything* in emailH > without being sure of what it is, that at least protects me from email > virii. > J > I admit to uncertainty about some kinds of web page scripts:  some pagesN > won't display without them, and I confess that I tend to assume that as longL > as I'm targeting a reputable firm, then the likelihood of damage should beJ > minimal (though I won't execute an active x control unless I really have > to). > + >   How long before malware is written thateM > > doesn't do anything noticeable to your PC, other than alter your settingse5 > > so that other people's malware can do the damage?d > E > As long as I'm prompted before anything is allowed to execute, thisiI > possibility should remain small (though I could always make a mistake).  >  >  There have been plentyyK > > of vulnerabilities in the past that would have allowed such, and I haveaJ > > no confidence at all that there aren't many more waiting for a malware > > author to uncover. > L > Against oversights/bugs there is no protection except for fixes.  And I'llK > be the first to admit that Microsoft products have a great deal more thanpN > their share.  I'd also like to see more restrictive default options settingsI > that a user would have to loosen explicitly (and with some explanation)'+ > before anything executable could execute.g >  > >iI > > It may or may not be possible to make NT secure, but all the evidencet > pointsJ > > to the latter. When I try, fixing some of the holes I know of requires > ACLs8 > > that cause much legitimate software to stop working! > K > That gets out of the area of Word (or email) issues.  I really don't care M > that much whether my operating system needs reinstallation if I've lost allo > my personal files anyway.  > N > But I sure as hell wouldn't use NT for a common server if I thought that anyF > action taken by a user (or a virus) on a connected workstation couldH > compromise anything beyond that user's data (well, temporary denial ofJ > service might be acceptable, if it only lasted until the workstation was > turned off). >  >  There are an L > > ever-increasing number of exploits of ever-increasing sophistication andL > > impact. Microsoft have built a house out of beetle-infested timber usingL > > substandard nails and fasteners, and with invisible roof tiles that keepK > > falling off and don't get put back on anything like promptly. Would yourI > > feel safe in such a house? Not me. Indeed, I worry what may happen toeN > > the world at large when malware written by a competent intelligence agency3 > > gets loose. Which all history suggests it will.p > N > I don't think NT is quite that bad, but neither is it as good as it needs toI > be to make such concerns largely unnecessary.  Neither are most Unixes, M > though they mostly seem superior to NT in this regard.  But we'll just have M > to wait for them to improve, since they're what the world wants, unless VMSrH > can present a similarly-acceptable facade while retaining its internal > superiority. >  > - bill   > But we'll just havecM > to wait for them to improve, since they're what the world wants, unless VMSpH > can present a similarly-acceptable facade while retaining its internal > superiority.  = I been waiting 10 years. How much longer do you think it will  be? :) -- m Keith Browna kbrown780@usfamily.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 17:28:47 -0400r, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>% Subject: Re: Voluntary Milking System-> Message-ID: <hshubs-07C43F.17284720052000@news.mindspring.com>  - In article <8g6vn1$910@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, c$ mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu wrote:  B >the April 2000 issue of Popular Mechanics and noticed a couple ofK >paragraphs about VMS.  It stood for "Voluntary Milking System" and allowedmH >cows to wander into a barn and get milked (by a machine) whenever they  >felti	 >like it.e  / Does that work??  Perhaps the IRS would try it.    -- I Howard S Shubs, the Denim Adept'   ------------------------------   Date: 20 May 2000 21:22:41 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)! Subject: Voluntary Milking System , Message-ID: <8g6vn1$910@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  K Today while having the oil changed in my wife's Legacy I chanced to open uptA the April 2000 issue of Popular Mechanics and noticed a couple ofrJ paragraphs about VMS.  It stood for "Voluntary Milking System" and allowedK cows to wander into a barn and get milked (by a machine) whenever they felt0K like it. Very much like the situation with the VMS we know and love, exceptt7 I doubt the cows need to try so hard to find the barn. c  L This would tend to explain the "milked until there was no more left" feeling that VMS customers experience! n   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 14:28:22 -0400h" From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> Subject: Re: Win a DS10 8 Message-ID: <4.3.1.0.20000520142458.00eb7960@24.8.96.48>  2 At 05:38 PM 5/20/00 +0000, Terry C. Shannon wrote:L >Compaq has a "Win a DS10" contest posted on the WildFire announcement page.C >Answer 10 easy questions and you'll have a stab at winning a DS10.>  & The URL for the main page for this is K http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/gs/announce.html. Anyone actually manage 5D to get through? My systems can't manage to resolve any names in the E digital.com domain, which makes submitting the results kinda tough...s   					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"-------------------r2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and evene;                                       teddy bears get drunke   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 11:57:36 -0700o9 From: Clemens Wermelskirchen <wermelsk@SLAC.Stanford.EDU>u Subject: Re: Win a DS10u6 Message-ID: <3926E020.8802BC8E@ssrl.slac.stanford.edu>   Doesn't work for me either. ? This company is really doing "great" in nonstop e-business. :-( ( (or better, in how NOT to do e-business)N The answer needs to go to www.digital.com, for which there is no dns entry any more!-2 Some people seem to be out of sync by a few years.   Clemens Wermelskirchen   Dan Sugalski wrote:R  4 > At 05:38 PM 5/20/00 +0000, Terry C. Shannon wrote:N > >Compaq has a "Win a DS10" contest posted on the WildFire announcement page.E > >Answer 10 easy questions and you'll have a stab at winning a DS10.  > ' > The URL for the main page for this isnL > http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/gs/announce.html. Anyone actually manageE > to get through? My systems can't manage to resolve any names in the G > digital.com domain, which makes submitting the results kinda tough...l >e- >                                         Dany >oK > --------------------------------------"it's like this"-------------------a4 > Dan Sugalski                          even samuraiA > dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and evena= >                                       teddy bears get drunkt   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 15:14:56 -0400y" From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> Subject: Re: Win a DS10 8 Message-ID: <4.3.1.0.20000520150904.00ea7660@24.8.96.48>  8 At 11:57 AM 5/20/00 -0700, Clemens Wermelskirchen wrote: >Doesn't work for me either.@ >This company is really doing "great" in nonstop e-business. :-() >(or better, in how NOT to do e-business)rL >The answer needs to go to www.digital.com, for which there is no dns entry 
 >any more!3 >Some people seem to be out of sync by a few years.f  J Nobody's out of sync--the two main nameservers for the digital.com domain H seem unavailable. Looks like a network problem, but that's tough to say L from outside. (One of the designated primaries seems to not even be serving 1 DNS at the moment, while the other's unreachable)t   					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"-------------------e2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and evena;                                       teddy bears get drunkt   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 20:06:30 GMTt/ From: StevenU@POBoxes.com (Steven P. Underwood)y Subject: Re: Win a DS10y5 Message-ID: <3926efe5.152314327@news.ma.ultranet.com>a  D Please post the answers (after the contest is over) as I want to see? which ones I missed.  I confirmed all but the obvious marketingaA questions and was still told I had one or more incorrect answers.a   Thanks  4 On Sat, 20 May 2000 17:38:30 GMT, "Terry C. Shannon" <shannon@world.std.com> wrote:  L >Compaq has a "Win a DS10" contest posted on the WildFire announcement page.C >Answer 10 easy questions and you'll have a stab at winning a DS10.u >wG >Unfortunately, the contest closes at 23:59 EST tonite Saturday 20 May.e >m >--m >Terry C. Shannon / >Consultant and Publisher, Shannon Knows Compaqd >shannon@world.std.com >http://www.acersoft.com >  >l >2 >2   Steven P. Underwood,DNRC Whitinsville,MAx StevenU@POBoxes.comr   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 17:13:16 -04008, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Win a DS10 > Message-ID: <hshubs-764A9D.17131620052000@news.mindspring.com>  : In article <FuvD18.JHG@world.std.com>, "Terry C. Shannon"  <shannon@world.std.com> wrote:  L >Compaq has a "Win a DS10" contest posted on the WildFire announcement page.C >Answer 10 easy questions and you'll have a stab at winning a DS10.    The URL would be useful.   -- c Howard S Shubs, the Denim Adept    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 17:23:57 -0400s, From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Win a DS10h> Message-ID: <hshubs-BA0785.17235720052000@news.mindspring.com>  F In article <4.3.1.0.20000520142458.00eb7960@24.8.96.48>, Dan Sugalski  <dan@sidhe.org> wrote:  E >to get through? My systems can't manage to resolve any names in the wF >digital.com domain, which makes submitting the results kinda tough...  * I just got through okay a few minutes ago.   -- o Howard S Shubs, the Denim Adeptr   ------------------------------   Date: 20 May 2000 21:09:57 GMT: From: patchkov@acs1.acs.ucalgary.ca (Serguei Patchkovskii) Subject: Re: Win a DS10?3 Message-ID: <8g6uv5$1h5q$1@nserve1.acs.ucalgary.ca>t  0 Steven P. Underwood (StevenU@POBoxes.com) wrote:F : Please post the answers (after the contest is over) as I want to seeA : which ones I missed.  I confirmed all but the obvious marketingXC : questions and was still told I had one or more incorrect answers.k  K Oh, you probably had answered "NUMA" to the first question, right? For somebK reason, the "right" answer is "low occupancy", which is quite nonsensical -rL unless, that is, the poor marketdroid designing the questionaire was trying G to hint that a single occupancy hotel suite would fit his needs better a/ next time he has to go on a trip. Or something.0  I In any event, the whole contest is basically pointless (or I would not besE posting this, would I ;-)) - at the end of the silly quiz, your entry D gets submitted by POST'ing it to www.digital.com. Since both of the G Digital's name servers (CRL.DEC.COM and NS.DEC.COM) are presently dead,pH there is no way this could succeed. A very good PR move from a purveyor I of highly-available internet hardware for the unparalleled experience of  + the next generation of e-business, I'd say.   G Or, maybe somebody is trying to make sure that his (or her - you nether D know these days) contest entry gets a better than average chance of K winning ... either way, it's going to be a bit of embarassement for Decpaq.r   Cheers,l   /Serge.P   --1 home page: http://www.cobalt.chem.ucalgary.ca/ps/h   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 18:47:36 -0400?2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Win a DS10O6 Message-ID: <200005201847_MC2-A5C7-F98@compuserve.com>  C         I can get to the site OK but I can't seem to answer all thetJ questions correctly!  <sigh>  This, in spite of spending a couple of hour= saJ browsing the site trying to find out "How many levels of CustomSystems an= dp? Solutions services are available on the AlphaServer GS series?"n  $ Message text written by Dan Sugalski3 >At 05:38 PM 5/20/00 +0000, Terry C. Shannon wrote:gF >Compaq has a "Win a DS10" contest posted on the WildFire announcement page.iC >Answer 10 easy questions and you'll have a stab at winning a DS10.   ' The URL for the main page for this is =n  J http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/gs/announce.html. Anyone actually manag= e =l  E to get through? My systems can't manage to resolve any names in the =r  E digital.com domain, which makes submitting the results kinda tough..." <B   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 16:00:04 -0700i* From: "Nikita V. Belenki" <kit@nospam.net> Subject: Re: Win a DS10B< Message-ID: <SPEV4.18401$jZ3.263826@nuq-read.news.verio.net>  / "Dan Sugalski" <dan@sidhe.org> wrote in message 2 news:4.3.1.0.20000520142458.00eb7960@24.8.96.48...  4 > At 05:38 PM 5/20/00 +0000, Terry C. Shannon wrote:H > >Compaq has a "Win a DS10" contest posted on the WildFire announcement page..E > >Answer 10 easy questions and you'll have a stab at winning a DS10.e' > The URL for the main page for this is L > http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/gs/announce.html. Anyone actually manageE > to get through? My systems can't manage to resolve any names in the G > digital.com domain, which makes submitting the results kinda tough...a  < I just waited a couple of hours until digital.com became up.   Kit. kit # kits.net   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 03:17:52 GMTd9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)e Subject: Re: Win a DS10t+ Message-ID: <TmYQVNd41ezG@eisner.decus.org>.  i In article <SPEV4.18401$jZ3.263826@nuq-read.news.verio.net>, "Nikita V. Belenki" <kit@nospam.net> writes:/1 > "Dan Sugalski" <dan@sidhe.org> wrote in messagee4 > news:4.3.1.0.20000520142458.00eb7960@24.8.96.48... > 5 >> At 05:38 PM 5/20/00 +0000, Terry C. Shannon wrote:(I >> >Compaq has a "Win a DS10" contest posted on the WildFire announcementr > page. F >> >Answer 10 easy questions and you'll have a stab at winning a DS10.( >> The URL for the main page for this isM >> http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/gs/announce.html. Anyone actually manage F >> to get through? My systems can't manage to resolve any names in theH >> digital.com domain, which makes submitting the results kinda tough... > > > I just waited a couple of hours until digital.com became up.  ( I find their "win a DS10" URL points to:  4 	http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/gs/announce.html#  $ the same page on which it was found.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 01:51:25 GMTn/ From: StevenU@POBoxes.com (Steven P. Underwood)t Subject: Re: Win a DS10a5 Message-ID: <39274098.173008049@news.ma.ultranet.com>l  : Thanks.  I will reference you in my acceptance speech. ;7)  D They must have found their mistake because I was just able to submit, an entry and got the following confirmation.   >>>n  E Your contest entry has been sent to the AlphaServer GS series contest  at alphaserver@compaq.com.  5 Thank you! We will contact winners by email in June. a   >>>t  C On 20 May 2000 21:09:57 GMT, patchkov@acs1.acs.ucalgary.ca (Sergueio Patchkovskii) wrote:  1 >Steven P. Underwood (StevenU@POBoxes.com) wrote:mG >: Please post the answers (after the contest is over) as I want to seemB >: which ones I missed.  I confirmed all but the obvious marketingD >: questions and was still told I had one or more incorrect answers. > L >Oh, you probably had answered "NUMA" to the first question, right? For someL >reason, the "right" answer is "low occupancy", which is quite nonsensical -M >unless, that is, the poor marketdroid designing the questionaire was trying bH >to hint that a single occupancy hotel suite would fit his needs better 0 >next time he has to go on a trip. Or something. >sJ >In any event, the whole contest is basically pointless (or I would not beF >posting this, would I ;-)) - at the end of the silly quiz, your entryE >gets submitted by POST'ing it to www.digital.com. Since both of the  H >Digital's name servers (CRL.DEC.COM and NS.DEC.COM) are presently dead,I >there is no way this could succeed. A very good PR move from a purveyor  J >of highly-available internet hardware for the unparalleled experience of , >the next generation of e-business, I'd say. >eH >Or, maybe somebody is trying to make sure that his (or her - you netherE >know these days) contest entry gets a better than average chance of 'L >winning ... either way, it's going to be a bit of embarassement for Decpaq. >  >Cheers, >s	 >/Serge.Pn >  >--a2 >home page: http://www.cobalt.chem.ucalgary.ca/ps/   Steven P. Underwood,DNRC Whitinsville,MA  StevenU@POBoxes.comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 21:46:00 -0400 " From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> Subject: Re: Win a DS10a8 Message-ID: <4.3.1.0.20000520214439.01e36750@24.8.96.48>  1 At 03:17 AM 5/21/00 +0000, Larry Kilgallen wrote: I >In article <SPEV4.18401$jZ3.263826@nuq-read.news.verio.net>, "Nikita V.  " >Belenki" <kit@nospam.net> writes:3 > > "Dan Sugalski" <dan@sidhe.org> wrote in messagei6 > > news:4.3.1.0.20000520142458.00eb7960@24.8.96.48... > >n7 > >> At 05:38 PM 5/20/00 +0000, Terry C. Shannon wrote: K > >> >Compaq has a "Win a DS10" contest posted on the WildFire announcement 	 > > page. H > >> >Answer 10 easy questions and you'll have a stab at winning a DS10.* > >> The URL for the main page for this isO > >> http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/gs/announce.html. Anyone actually managefH > >> to get through? My systems can't manage to resolve any names in theJ > >> digital.com domain, which makes submitting the results kinda tough... > >n@ > > I just waited a couple of hours until digital.com became up. > ) >I find their "win a DS10" URL points to:  >v= >         http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/gs/announce.html#  >a% >the same page on which it was found.i  B It pops up some javascript window thing to do the actual quiz and L statistics. Looked at the source--you could figure out the answers from it, % but it didn't seem worth the trouble.i   					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"------------------- 2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and event;                                       teddy bears get drunkt   ------------------------------   Date: 20 May 2000 20:52 CSTt' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)  Subject: Re: Win a DS10e- Message-ID: <20MAY200020524025@gerg.tamu.edu>g  t In article <3926E020.8802BC8E@ssrl.slac.stanford.edu>, Clemens Wermelskirchen <wermelsk@SLAC.Stanford.EDU> writes... }Doesn't work for me either.@ }This company is really doing "great" in nonstop e-business. :-() }(or better, in how NOT to do e-business)TO }The answer needs to go to www.digital.com, for which there is no dns entry any' }more!3 }Some people seem to be out of sync by a few years.l }  }Clemens Wermelskirchena    F I got through just fine, except for one thing: the main www.compaq.comF page is seriously screwed up. It ends up displaying an all white page.E No pictures. No text. The links are still there and you can see where C they go by looking at the status line as you move the mouse around.d This is not a good design.  I The images and text (if there is any text) show up briefly as the page is-I being loaded (would have probably been less brief, but I was accessing itnI over a T-1 line) then disappear. I assume it disappears as the javascript7F kicks in, or fails to kick in properly. At any rate, it ends up blank., This is when viewing it with Netscape v4.05.  J Fortunately, I found the route to the contest, answered the questions, andE submitted my info. (In spite of the slight problem that there was one D question I didn't know the answer to, didn't find the answer to, andF had to resort to trial and error to get. Also fortunately, it was onlyE that one that I had wrong. I also woudn't consider some of them to be-B "easy" questions - "obscure info you can probably only find in oneC specific document on ou site" is more like it for a couple of them, D and "info so obscure that it doesn't actually appear anywhere on our& site" for the one I had trouble with.)   --- Carl   }Dan Sugalski wrote: } 5 }> At 05:38 PM 5/20/00 +0000, Terry C. Shannon wrote:sO }> >Compaq has a "Win a DS10" contest posted on the WildFire announcement page.iF }> >Answer 10 easy questions and you'll have a stab at winning a DS10. }>( }> The URL for the main page for this isM }> http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/gs/announce.html. Anyone actually manage F }> to get through? My systems can't manage to resolve any names in theH }> digital.com domain, which makes submitting the results kinda tough... }>. }>                                         Dan   ------------------------------   Date: 20 May 2000 21:07 CST-' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)2 Subject: Re: Win a DS10s- Message-ID: <20MAY200021075574@gerg.tamu.edu>e  6 "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com> writes...D }        I can get to the site OK but I can't seem to answer all theK }questions correctly!  <sigh>  This, in spite of spending a couple of hour=u }sK }browsing the site trying to find out "How many levels of CustomSystems an=o }d@ }Solutions services are available on the AlphaServer GS series?"  H This is the question I had to get via trial and error. As far as I couldG determine, the information was not actually on the Compaq web site. TheaJ CustomSystems and Solutions site(s? - I looked all over the place) doesn'tK mention there being different levels of service, which was why I originally , guessed "1" (which is not the right answer).   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 02:03:28 GMT-( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> Subject: Re: Win a DS100' Message-ID: <Fuw0Ds.H0D@spcuna.spc.edu>k  ? In comp.org.decus Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com> wrote:2 > The URL would be useful.  2 http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/gs/announce.html  - 	Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com 5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USAn   ------------------------------   Date: 20 May 2000 21:10 CSTy' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)y Subject: Re: Win a DS10m- Message-ID: <20MAY200021103643@gerg.tamu.edu>   > patchkov@acs1.acs.ucalgary.ca (Serguei Patchkovskii) writes...1 }Steven P. Underwood (StevenU@POBoxes.com) wrote:nG }: Please post the answers (after the contest is over) as I want to seenB }: which ones I missed.  I confirmed all but the obvious marketingD }: questions and was still told I had one or more incorrect answers. } L }Oh, you probably had answered "NUMA" to the first question, right? For someL }reason, the "right" answer is "low occupancy", which is quite nonsensical -M }unless, that is, the poor marketdroid designing the questionaire was trying -H }to hint that a single occupancy hotel suite would fit his needs better 0 }next time he has to go on a trip. Or something.  L Actually, if you read the one specific whitepaper full of detailed technicalK information that talks about this, it turns out that what they mean by "low0D occupancy" (which to me looks like "most of the memory slots are notJ filled", or at perhaps "each interleaved bank of memory has very few SIMMsL in it") is probably not what you think they mean. It would be better if theyE called it "short resource blocking duration" or some such, since that(L is what they mean by it - each memory request occupies any limited resourcesL for a short duration (they whitepaper compared it to a juggler - the shorterF the time each ball spends in his hand, i.e. the lower the ball-in-hand9 occupancy rate, the more balls it is possible to juggle).   J }In any event, the whole contest is basically pointless (or I would not beF }posting this, would I ;-)) - at the end of the silly quiz, your entryE }gets submitted by POST'ing it to www.digital.com. Since both of the -H }Digital's name servers (CRL.DEC.COM and NS.DEC.COM) are presently dead,I }there is no way this could succeed. A very good PR move from a purveyor bJ }of highly-available internet hardware for the unparalleled experience of , }the next generation of e-business, I'd say.	 }/Serge.P0  L Hm. It went through just 20 minutes or so ago (about 8:50 Central time, 9:50@ EST) for me - or, at least, I didn't get an error when I did it.  F My guess is that their namservers and webservers, etc. are not runningG on the GS80/160/320 platform (and quite possibly most, or all, of it isiH not running on a AlphaServer of any sort - or a Tandem for that matter).   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 03:24:55 GMT / From: StevenU@POBoxes.com (Steven P. Underwood)e Subject: Re: Win a DS10g5 Message-ID: <392756c8.178689021@news.ma.ultranet.com>   : But on that page, there are 3 main choices you can make.     Steveo   Ooops, gave away another one.   B On 20 May 2000 21:07 CST, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote:  7 >"Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com> writes...2E >}        I can get to the site OK but I can't seem to answer all therL >}questions correctly!  <sigh>  This, in spite of spending a couple of hour= >}s L >}browsing the site trying to find out "How many levels of CustomSystems an= >}dbA >}Solutions services are available on the AlphaServer GS series?"J >wI >This is the question I had to get via trial and error. As far as I couldaH >determine, the information was not actually on the Compaq web site. TheK >CustomSystems and Solutions site(s? - I looked all over the place) doesn't L >mention there being different levels of service, which was why I originally- >guessed "1" (which is not the right answer).5 >0	 >--- Carl    Steven P. Underwood,DNRC Whitinsville,MAc StevenU@POBoxes.come   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 05:03:49 GMTe9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)  Subject: Re: Win a DS10 + Message-ID: <44IHLocRLRJg@eisner.decus.org>   ] In article <4.3.1.0.20000520214439.01e36750@24.8.96.48>, Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> writes:.  D > It pops up some javascript window thing to do the actual quiz and N > statistics. Looked at the source--you could figure out the answers from it, ' > but it didn't seem worth the trouble.   C I thought Compaq had gotten over believing that everyone is willingh- to run with Javascript enabled.  I guess not.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 23:47:10 -0400n" From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> Subject: Re: Win a DS10f8 Message-ID: <4.3.1.0.20000520234556.01ec9390@24.8.96.48>  1 At 05:03 AM 5/21/00 +0000, Larry Kilgallen wrote:hG >In article <4.3.1.0.20000520214439.01e36750@24.8.96.48>, Dan Sugalski b ><dan@sidhe.org> writes: >iE > > It pops up some javascript window thing to do the actual quiz andpL > > statistics. Looked at the source--you could figure out the answers from  > it,c) > > but it didn't seem worth the trouble.  >tD >I thought Compaq had gotten over believing that everyone is willing. >to run with Javascript enabled.  I guess not.  I At least it wasn't some Shockwave thingie. Which the intro page is laced  F with, as is most of the PR stuff. But shiny objects and moving things C attract the attention of the average PHB, so it's understandable...p   					Dan  I --------------------------------------"it's like this"-------------------i2 Dan Sugalski                          even samurai? dan@sidhe.org                         have teddy bears and evenb;                                       teddy bears get drunke   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 23:38:20 -0400i* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: Win a DS10p- Message-ID: <39275A2C.8A350F56@tsoft-inc.com>h   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:y > M > Compaq has a "Win a DS10" contest posted on the WildFire announcement page.?D > Answer 10 easy questions and you'll have a stab at winning a DS10. > H > Unfortunately, the contest closes at 23:59 EST tonite Saturday 20 May. >  > -- > Terry C. Shannon0 > Consultant and Publisher, Shannon Knows Compaq > shannon@world.std.como > http://www.acersoft.com=  M Thanks Terry, I think.  If I win this thing, and it comes with T64 instead of I VMS, I'm going to be real upset. Maybe they'll give me my choice.  Stupids* questions were more like a scavenger hunt.   Dave   -- 04 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596; 170 Grimplin Road               E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com  Vanderbilt, PA  15486h   ------------------------------   Date: 21 May 2000 04:07:33 GMT: From: patchkov@acs1.acs.ucalgary.ca (Serguei Patchkovskii) Subject: Re: Win a DS10 2 Message-ID: <8g7ne5$kiu$1@nserve1.acs.ucalgary.ca>  ( Carl Perkins (carl@gerg.tamu.edu) wrote:N : Actually, if you read the one specific whitepaper full of detailed technicalM : information that talks about this, it turns out that what they mean by "low   M Would you mind posting an URL? For some reason, I find it *very* hard to findaM anything on Compaq web pages, so that the best I was able to come up with was.Q http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/download/gs_techsummary.pdf - at that referenceD is a bit on the sketchy side.F  F : occupancy" (which to me looks like "most of the memory slots are notL : filled", or at perhaps "each interleaved bank of memory has very few SIMMsN : in it") is probably not what you think they mean. It would be better if theyG : called it "short resource blocking duration" or some such, since thato  M Oh. I see. YAMMHG (Yet Another Meaningless Marketing Hype Gimmik). Given thiseI advanced "low occupancy", it is slightly surprising that the local memory-L latency and remote/local latency ratio of GS series is about the same as forJ a four-years-old SGI Origin. What is even more surprising is that the sameO "low occupancy" only gets you about 550Mbytes/second per-CPU bandwidth *within*rP a QBB - out of the 1.6Gbytes/second peak link bandwidth touted in the "technicalO summary" on the Web page. (In fact, John McCalpin posted a rather nice analysis.M of where this number comes from in comp.arch yesterday - the limit comes fromqS the number of the outstanding cache misses EV67 can handle, so that the theoreticalr$ link speed is basically irrelevant).  H Mind you, I like the system a lot - it is a great piece of hardware, andH I'd love to play with one of those (which is slightly unlikely to happenM given the price tag - but that's another story). I was certainly sufficientlycH interested in the box to listen to the announcement in the webcast - andF I wasted almost two hours of my time. The amount of complete marketingK drivel, mixed with at best misleading quasi-technical assertions, in those hL announcement talks was simply staggering ... it sure helped me to understandC why some people exhibit an allergic reaction on Decpaq marketroids.S   Regards,   /Serge.P   --1 home page: http://www.cobalt.chem.ucalgary.ca/ps/e   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 00:16:09 -0500 (CDT)) From: sms@ANTINODE.ORG Subject: Re: Win a DS10w) Message-ID: <00052100160948@antinode.org>e  * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>  3 > Stupid questions were more like a scavenger hunt.t  -    The actual hunt was in the Javascript for:   >       http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/gs/may00_contest2.html  ; which then appears to work fine with Javascript turned off.v  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  C    Steven M. Schweda               (+1) 651-699-9818  (voice, home)iC    382 South Warwick Street        (+1) 763-781-0308  (voice, work)tG    Saint Paul  MN  55105-2547      (+1) 763-781-0309  (facsimile, work)u9    sms@antinode.org                sms@provis.com  (work)    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 04:47:48 GMTn From: Bruiser <bruiser@tcn.net>h Subject: WWW.DSLRESOURCE.NET! Message-ID: <8f3b.bfb.136@octane>i   WWW.DSLRESOURCE.NETn; xDSL information for beginners and experts alike. Firewall  @ software,FTP server and client software and tons of information . regarding this wildfire broadband connection!!   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.282 ************************