1 INFO-VAX	Fri, 01 Sep 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 489       Contents:( Re: (change topic) Rose-Hulman's new VP.( Re: (change topic) Rose-Hulman's new VP.( Re: (change topic) Rose-Hulman's new VP. RE: 5 programs you requested!  Re: analysing object libraries Re: analysing object libraries Re: analysing object libraries apache beginner's question apache web server  Re: Big AlphaServer Sale Re: Big AlphaServer Sale Re: Big AlphaServer Sale Re: Big AlphaServer Sale( Re: C system service call style question( RE: C system service call style question( Re: C system service call style questionP Re: CETS2000 - Hands-On Interactive Registration starts 8/31/2000 High    Noon (P Re: CETS2000 - Hands-On Interactive Registration starts 8/31/2000 High Noon (CenP Re: CETS2000 - Hands-On Interactive Registration starts 8/31/2000 High Noon (CenP Re: CETS2000 - Hands-On Interactive Registration starts 8/31/2000 High Noon (Cen  Re: CETS2000- Hotel Reservations CETS: Sessions at a glance?  CMUIP on OpenVMS v7.1 VAX? Re: CMUIP on OpenVMS v7.1 VAX? dcps Re: dcps Duplicate postings?  Re: Error status from VMSTar Re: I&DS Book Question Re: I&DS Book Question Re: IMAP-Server for VMS?+ Re: Interesting FTP file corruption problem # Re: Is there any new Alpha CPU out? # RE: Is there any new Alpha CPU out?   Re: LPD printing to a Xerox265ST* openvms install on workstation 533au hangs) Re: Oracle/VMS (in the US) teleconference  Re: Q: Why not (2^n)-bit?  Re: Q: Why not (2^n)-bit?  Re: SCSI Tape drive  Re: SCSI Tape drive  Re: SCSI Tape drive  Re: Six Figure Income !! Re: Six Figure Income !! Re: Stop programme! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist # Re: Terseness (was Re: DHCP server) % The Perfect Government Auction Guide!  Re: Ultra SCSI in VAX 4100A? VMS and 100 meg Ethernet Re: VMS and 100 meg Ethernet Re: VMS and 100 meg Ethernet Re: VMS and 100 meg Ethernet Re: VMS and 100 meg Ethernet Re: VMS and 100 meg Ethernet Re: VMS and 100 meg Ethernet Re: VMS and 100 meg Ethernet Re: VMS and 100 meg Ethernet VMS Support for 4D30T ???? Re: VMS Support for 4D30T ???? Re: VMS Support for 4D30T ???? Re: VMS Support for 4D30T ???? Re: WORD viewer for VMS  Re: WORD viewer for VMS  Re: WORD viewer for VMS 
 Re: X windows   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 16:17:04 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> 1 Subject: Re: (change topic) Rose-Hulman's new VP. ) Message-ID: <39AFC870.BF3EA922@bbc.co.uk>    Roy Omond wrote:  C >  Hee hee !  Also in this case, the VMScluster has (by many years) A > outlived the "VP" (VP is a misnomer here;  the guy was actually G > professor (in the UK sense, i.e. head) of computer science at a major H > European university, and also the founder of a certain "Data Division"< > at a *very* large European laboratory).  When asked why weD > should keep VMS, I replied "Because we deserve the best", to whichE > his reply was "Yes, I admit VMS is the best", and then proceeded to H > insist on switching to Unix nevertheless, even though we had plenty of! > Unix machines already in place.  >   C  I still remember vividly the meeting in which one of our lecturers = brought up the subject of moving the ONE vms 3000-400 we had, ; which was on MY desk, to OSF for work in a compute farm. Me < and my sysmgr mate almost choked ! Luckily it was a no go as? we had storage attached and moving it elsewhere would have cost 3 too. In the end they didn't do that project either.   7 I coudn't believe the pure cheek of these guys, myself.      --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 16:27:48 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> 1 Subject: Re: (change topic) Rose-Hulman's new VP. ) Message-ID: <39AFCAF3.56522D9F@bbc.co.uk>    David A Froble wrote:    > Roy Omond wrote: > > D > > Hee hee !  Also in this case, the VMScluster has (by many years)C > > outlived the "VP" (VP is a misnomer here;  the guy was actually I > > professor (in the UK sense, i.e. head) of computer science at a major J > > European university, and also the founder of a certain "Data Division"> > > at a *very* large European laboratory).  When asked why weF > > should keep VMS, I replied "Because we deserve the best", to whichG > > his reply was "Yes, I admit VMS is the best", and then proceeded to J > > insist on switching to Unix nevertheless, even though we had plenty of# > > Unix machines already in place.  > K > So, this guy get his degree from one of those internet spam e-mails?  I'm N > guessing intellegence wasn't a requirement for his past/current/future jobs?L > Lets see, if he was in the olympics, in the 100 meter finals, and in first0 > place, he'd slow down so he could take second? >    Dave,   J I saw a lot of the decline of VMS in academia first hand, was lucky enough1 to at least hang onto VMS for the realtime stuff.   I UK Academic research budgets were squeezed hard in to 80's, harder in the H 90's. Also, in the 90's, outside buisiness consultants were bought in to "manage"N to grant awards etc. I can envisage grant holders being forced to move to unix- asa otherwise the grant would not be awarded.   K There is a virtually unlimited amount of student coding^H^H^H^H^H^H hacking M time available in academia, unless the application is really costing a lot of  money F when down (eg DAQ in HEP) then it can be made to work "good enough" onK unix or whatever in most case, OK not as elegantly engineered as a good VMS 3 solution or as robust but maybe that is not needed.   O I personally believe a good tool should do its job and not need replacing every  few M years. Enhancing, perhaps, but not replacing. Even CERN were hanging onto the G EMU VMS based messaging utility last I heard, after dumping VMS bigtime O everywhere. VMS is a great platform for such a solution, but the computer users J of today who would have run away from a computer 15 years ago are too busyG faffing around with windowz mentality to appreciate such issues, sadly.    >  > Dave >  > --6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04506 > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596@ > DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com8 > T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 16:31:21 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> 1 Subject: Re: (change topic) Rose-Hulman's new VP. ( Message-ID: <39AFCBC9.53FE58E@bbc.co.uk>   "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote:   E >         Why would they need to "relicense" VMS?  The license can be M > transferred with the machine if the machine is sold.   When you buy a whole ? > company, AFAIK, you don't even need to transfer the licenses.  >   I This is interesting to me. I thought only VMS base and a couple of others O (DECNET?) could be transferred legally. All the application and layered product   K licences need to be repurchased, which sounds really bad buisiness practice J especially in the take-over and out-source intesive commercial environment we live in.    > $ > Message text written by Jim JennisH >  Recently, the factory was purchased by a new owner, and when they gotK > quotes from Compaq about re-licensing VMS their CFO had a serious case of  > sticker shock. >  >   K I dunno how much my current clients got stung for novating the licences for 6 the VMS systems transferred from their clients, sadly.   >    --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 10:22:22 -0500 ; From: Second Rising Sun !! <secondrisingsun_2000@yahoo.com> & Subject: RE: 5 programs you requested!, Message-ID: <200009011036.SM00227@localhost>   Build your own downline:> http://www.usemoregreen.com/green/members/secondrisingsun.html   GIFTING CLUB #1   # Hello Fellow Club and List members, F I scour the net looking for the best NEW programs.  My friend who is =! also doing the same thing sent=20 + me this invite.  It is incredible and fast. F I only need TWO (2) people to join.  They will follow me up the board= s to make some cool cash. =20 F If you are interested please email me as soon as possible.  I only ne=! ed a couple of people, so this=20 F is most likely going to be the only letter of this program you wil re= ceive.  ! Read the email and email me back.    Happy Gifting! Pierre TuesdayF *********************************************************************=" ********* CAN'T BEAT THIS ONE!!=20F OK, this is a good one. Just read and email follow directions below. =" $20 - $16,000 with ONE $20 gift=20F and only 2 people Here is the official version of this $20 gifting pr=# ogram. This is a good one folks.=20 F Little cash outlay for a big reward and a small amount of work. Pleas=" e, when you email Jim Oliver to=20F tell him you want to join, tell him Pierre Tuesday is your referrer a=: nd send me back an email at secondrisingsun@hotmail.com=20F telling me you joined also please. You enter the program by sending a=!  $20 gift to the Senior on the=20 F board. (Jim will tell you who this is when you join). You ARE require=" d to bring two people into this=20F program but ONLY two as they will follow you through all 4 boards. So=&  one $20 gift up front and bringing=20F in only TWO people can get you $16,000 at the end of 30 - 45 days and=!  maybe sooner if everyone does=20 F their thing promptly. You do NOT have to keep your own boards. Just s=  end your money and refer your=20F two people. There are on each board one Senior, two Juniors, four Sop=$ homores, and eight Freshmen. When=20F 8 new Freshmen come on board and gift the Senior, the board splits in=% to two new boards with the Juniors=20 F becoming Seniors, Sophomores becoming Juniors, and the Freshmen becom=! ing Sophomores. When you reach=20 F the Senior position, it will be your time to be gifted by the eight n=" ew Freshmen. You bring with you=20F two people and they follow you through all the boards. You are suppos=" ed to get your two people in 24=20F hours not counting Sat. and Sun. but they are somewhat flexible. They="  want to try to keep the boards=20F moving fast obviously. First board - $20 in, gifted $160. You keep $6=& 0 and follow sponsor to $100 board.=20F 2nd board - $100 in, gifted $800. You keep $300 and follow sponsor, $=" 500 board. 3rd board - $500 in,=20F gifted $4000. Keep $2000 and follow sponsor, $2000 board. 4th board -=   $2000 in, gifted $16,000 and=20F it is all yours. Normally you would make a progression through all fo=# ur boards with your two referred=20 F people. But you can play more than one board at a time. You can be at=   only one position on any one=20F board at a time but you could be on all four boards at the same time =' if you wanted to be. You can reenter=20 F any board as often as you want to. But if you say complete your $20 b=  oard and your original people=20F follow you into the $100 board and you decide to reenter the $20 boar=$ d again you have to find two more=20F people (and maybe the two that followed you will want to do the same =# thing) to come in under you each=20 F time. To join, send an email to mailto:olieshome@aol.com and please t=" ell Jim Oliver that you want to=20F join the program and be put on a $20 board and that Pierre Tuesday re=" ferred you. (I would appreciate=20F it if you would email me back if you join too so I can keep track of =  my people). Then get your two=20F people and email him again at mailto:olieshome@aol.com with their nam=  es and phone numbers (or make=20F sure they tell him YOU are the referrer) and he will add them to the =" boards and you can do the same.=20F Be sure and tell him who they are if they come to you first. When a b=  oard fills up, he faxes it to=20F Lori Shuster who is managing all the boards. YOU do NOT have to manag=" e the boards. Feel free to call=20F her at any time, 218-787-2373. If Jim can be of any help, please emai=$ l him at mailto:olieshome@aol.com=20% or call him 501-834-6335. Regards,=20   C =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= ! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D    THE GIFTING CLUB #2   ( http://giftingclub.com/members/2563.html  ' Do you know what gifting clubs are? =20   How much money is to much money? Do you want to live debt free?D Are you tired of all those unfulfilling internet marketing promises?1 I FOUND SOMETHING... I WISH TO TO SHARE WITH YOU! " It's only $20. to get started. =20 The GIFTING CLUB!   ( http://giftingclub.com/members/2563.html  F This is a pretty brand new gifting club.  All Automated and easy to h=
 andle. =20 5X6 FORCEDE MATRIX! 
 Go for it!% 5 x 20 is $100 a month gifted to you. & 25 x 20 is $625 a month gifted to you. 125, 625, 12,500...   F YOU DO THE MATH!  How does $390,000 sound if you fill your martix?  S=' ound impossible?  People are already=20 	 doing it.   F I you need an online bank for easy tranfer to gift and be gifted, go = to:   F US residents only: PAYPAL https://secure.paypal.com/refer/pal=3D2ndri= singsun%40netscape.net   International folks: E-GOLD - http://www.e-gold.com/e-gold.asp?cid=3D133963   @ Try it.  Take a look ay the site.  YOU WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED!   URL for the gifting club:   ( http://giftingclub.com/members/2563.html   JOIN OUR GIFTING FAMILY!   Pierre  3 ___________________________________________________   / Throw this cool club in also..... check it out!   	 Hi Folks, F I have three (3) spots LEFT!    JOIN NOW FOR FREE! Sign up as soon as=!  you can, my spots are limited=20 F and I will help you every step of the way to become financially INDEP= ENDANT!   F I have joined this incredible program this past winter and it is simp= ly amazing. =20 , http://www.clubshop.com/members/pt19248.html  F The Discount Home Shopping Club is a club that buys alot of products =  wholesale and resells them to=20F the members for ALOT less than stores, travel agencies, eye care peop=& le, car rentals, hotels....anything=20! you can name we have the SAVINGS!   F By joining our group you will have a self replicating website that yo=# u can market.  This is not a get=20 F rich scheme.  If you want LONG TERM RESIDUAL INCOME, than seriously l= ook at us. =20  0 People are making thousands a month already! =20, http://www.clubshop.com/members/pt19248.html  F It is FREE to become a member.  TRY us for one month, you will become=!  a member FREE!  If you decide=20 F to upgrade to VIP you will be able to BENEFIT financially.  VIP costs=   $25 a month.  If you can get=20F at least 3 people to sign up your $25 monthly membership is automatic= ally paid for!  So it is FREE!  ) SAVE MONEY and OWN YOUR OWN BUSINESS! =20   F I have not alot of time and space to talk about our fast growing club= .  So check out my website! , http://www.clubshop.com/members/pt19248.html  F Come see why a 1,000 people sign up!  This is not hype, this is a leg=  itimate business opportunity.=20 =20 / _______________________________________________      PRIVATE GIFITNG CLUB!    Good Day Folks, F My name is Pierre Tuesday <secondrisingsun@hotmail.com> I have found =$ or rather it found me...a program=20F that is phenomenal!  It is a gifting club!  People all over the world=$  are helping each other GIFT each=20F other.  Read below and see waht I talk about.  Your gift can be retur=! ned to you ten (10) fold.  $25=20iF turns into $250, $100 turns into $1000, $200 turns into $2000. This i= s no joke. =20= This is your personal invitation to join our CHOICE club. =20 F I run other programs, affiliate programs and nothing comes close to b=! ringing in that extra cash for=20 F your bills or whatever.  Members are caring, truthful and have a imme= nse desire to help you succeed! F Send me an email if you need more help deciding <secondrisingsun@hotm=
 ail.com> .F We like to use E-gold to transfer gifts you can apply online at E-Gol=2 d at http://www.e-gold.com/e-gold.asp?cid=3D133963F If you are living in the United States you can get an account with Pa=! ypal to receive and send money=200F electronically,  go to https://secure.paypal.com/refer/pal=3D2ndrisin= gsun%40netscape.net F Please take note of my referral # 514 (Pierre Tuesday) when joining t= he Private Gifting Club.F Are you Getting Tired of Being Led to Join the Same Old Programs? The=$ y Talk About 'Big Money' and They=20F Don't Follow Through. I Have Found a Program That WORKS. Yes it Takes=   Some Effort But What Program=20F Doesn't? I am Receiving MORE With This Than ANYTHING Else I Have Done=  , THIS DOES WORK! To Find Out=20F More:http://www.1freespace.com/gift2u/portal when signing up please u= se Referrer # 514=20F P.S. ~ This could be the Honest To Goodness Wealth Building Program Y=B ou Have Been Looking For! =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =20yF http://www.1freespace.com/gift2u/portal when signing up please use Re= ferrer Pierre Tuesday #514=20 * =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20F HOW MUCH MONEY IS TOO MUCH MONEY??? If you have to ask yourself that =% question, you need what I am doing=20 F because you do not have enough... To find out more: http://www.1frees=& pace.com/gift2u/portal when signing=20 up please use Referrer #514=20* =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20F You Can Actually Turn $25 into $250 the Easy Way. Check it out now! h=) ttp://www.1freespace.com/gift2u/portal=20eB when signing up please use Referrer #514 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20F Need Extra Money? Check out this site and learn how you can get some!=+  http://www.1freespace.com/gift2u/portal=20  Referrer #514=20' =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D0       Pierre Tuesday    0 THE BRAND NEW ULTIMATE OPT-IN CASH CREATOR!!!=20  F Now, after many hours of study, we have created a BRAND NEW program t=$ hat is so INCREDIBLE, so EXCITING=20F and so EASY that it will explode overnight. We are proud to introduce= =20-  . "THE ULTIMATE OPT-IN CASH CREATOR!!!!!!!!!"=20  @ THE ULTIMATE OPT-IN CASH CREATOR is the program you have been=20= waiting for. It's the opportunity that has it all=E2=80=A6=20c   **IT'S LEGAL!=20 **IT'S CHEAT PROOF!=20 **IT'S INTERNATIONAL!=20 **IT'S FAST MOVING!=20 **IT'S COMPLETELY ONLINE!=20 **IT'S FUN!=20 And most important=20a< **IT GIVES YOU A PRODUCT THAT IS ACTUALLY USEFUL & CAN BE=20 RESOLD THROUGH E-MAIL.=20n; --------------------------------------------------------=20"   WHAT IS THE PRODUCT?=20e  E We have scoured the Internet for the best FREE opt-in lists and have=  =20sF compiled a list of 614 of the best and most active business opportuni=% ty posting lists available. Unlike=20wF most of the lists out there, we have taken out the announcement only =& lists, the lists that don=E2=80=99t=20F allow business opportunities such as MLM and all of the recently dele=! ted lists. You will not find a=200) more up-to-date set of lists anywhere.=20F  5 This is what you will get and then sell to others:=20s  ; ***254 Globe Clubs Subscribe, Post and Unsubscribe Lists=20n8 ***239 e-Groups Subscribe, Post and Unsubscribe Lists=205 ***70 Topica Subscribe, Post and Unsubscribe Lists=20 7 ***51 Listbot Subscribe, Post and Unsubscribe Lists.=20l  F Free membership to 4 exclusive business opportunity mailing lists whe=' re you will receive periodic updates=20@( to the lists and be able to post your=20" advertisements 3 times per day.=20  E Access to this information alone is invaluable to promoting business=- =20-F opportunities on the internet and right now for only $12 ($3 for each=+  list) you can purchase this information=20(F and become a member of THE ULTIMATE OPT-IN CASH CREATOR reseller prog= ram.=20 8 -----------------------------------------------------=20   HOW MUCH CAN I MAKE?=20e  F Look at this scenario depicting how much you can make with only 10 re=  ferrals per person down the 4=20
 levels:=20   Level 1: 10 Sales=3D$30.00=20  Level 2: 100 Sales=3D$300.00=20 " Level 3: 1000 Sales=3D$3,000.00=20$ Level 4: 10000 Sales=3D$30,000.00=20 Total=3D$33,330.00=20o  F Now look how much you can make with 20 referrals per person down the = 4 levels:=20   Level 1: 20 Sales=3D$60=20 Level 2: 400 Sales=3D$1200=20t  Level 3: 8000 Sales=3D$24,000=20$ Level 4: 160,000 Sales=3D$480,000=20 Total=3D$505,260.00=203 ------------------------------------------------=20    HOW DO I GET STARTED?=20  F 1. In order to make this available internationally this program uses =# e-gold and/or Paypal. If you are=20uF in the US you should create Free accounts with both Paypal and e-gold=!  by using the following links.=20h? If you are not in the US then just create an e-gold account:=20o  ? https://secure.paypal.com/refer/pal=3D2ndrisingsun@netscape.neto  - http://www.e-gold.com/e-gold.asp?cid=3D133963   F 2. Send $3 to each of the 4 names below using the e-gold or Paypal ac= count listed.=20  F In the subject and memo fields write either list 1, list 2, list 3 or= =20aF list 4. Just a reminder, names are optional in sending money from Pay= pal!=20s  ; LIST 1: Paypal: 2ndrisingsun@netscape.net E-Gold: 133963=20m2 LIST 2: Paypal: DLRUSH@AOL.COM   E-Gold: 139364=204 LIST 3: Paypal: kkooken@excite.com E-Gold: 139838=206 LIST 4: Paypal: cashcaptain@yahoo.com E-Gold:142428=20  F 3. Each list will be sent by email and will contain either the Globec=$ lubs, E-Groups, Topica or Listbot=20F subscribe, post and unsubscribe files plus information on subscribing="  to one of the 4 exclusive CASH=20F CREATOR mailing lists. In addition, you will receive 1 of 4 parts to =" the opt-in training program. By=20F dividing the information in to 4 files, it is impossible to cheat the=  program.=20  F 4. Once you have received your lists. Change this letter by removing =  the payment information under=20F LIST 4, move the others down one level and add your information to LI=# ST 1. Also change the paypal and=20iF egold links in step one to your own so you can earn referral bonuses,=  too.=20  F 5. Now send the letter out to as many opt-in lists and friends that y= ou=20 	 can!!!=20g   DO NOT SPAM!=20   2 You should see orders coming in within hours!!!=202 This is going to move very fast so move now!!!!=20  F If you want to get involved but there is a problem in the payment pla=! n, send your problem to me at:=20w< 2ndrisingsun@netscape.net and we will try to work it out.=20   Thank You=20   Pierre Tuesday=20w General Delivery=20  Baudette, Minnesota=20 56623 USA=20 telephone: 807-488-5400=20 fax: 505-213-4420=20    Email: 2ndrisingsun@netscape.net  = ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=20e    F This is not SPAM.  We belong to the same group or groups.  If you fin=# d this message offensive, please=20 F go to your list administrator and have yourself removed from their li= st.h   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 14:38:09 GMTv From: waarom_nok@my-deja.com' Subject: Re: analysing object librariest) Message-ID: <8oof0e$kme$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   / In article <sqqlu03nc5d125@news.supernews.com>,p(   dpm@myths.com (David P. Murphy) wrote: > waarom_nok@my-deja.com wrote:uG > if it begins with a dash, it is certainly NOT the only thing you get.oG > what is the preceding line, which i assume begins with a percentsign?w >t Okido the full thing:c   $ ana foo.olb /include=bar.objG %ANALYZE-E-OPENIN, error opening D$DU2:[DEVSMS.AMF.CTL.OBJ]FOO.OLB;1 as  inputi' -LBR-W-TYPMISMCH, library type mismatchh $.   > F > the token OBJECT_LIBRARY point to a valid library, but not an objectB > library.  it must be either text or macro or help.  for example: > @ I don't get it does it or does it not work with objectlibraries?E For what I'm conserned it doesn't work on neither sort of library, as. your own example beneath shows.e  C > $ anal/object sys$help:sysgen.hlb /include=zqsmg /output=foo2.tmpoE > %ANALYZE-E-OPENIN, error opening SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP]SYSGEN.HLB;1 asr inpute) > -LBR-W-TYPMISMCH, library type mismatch  > $! >e I still can't get it to work...u     Norbert.    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 08:59:39 -0700r+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com> ' Subject: Re: analysing object librariesc( Message-ID: <39AFD26B.6BA66F39@mmaz.com>   waarom_nok@my-deja.com wrote:i   > Okido the full thing:  >t  > $ ana foo.olb /include=bar.objI > %ANALYZE-E-OPENIN, error opening D$DU2:[DEVSMS.AMF.CTL.OBJ]FOO.OLB;1 asr > inputm) > -LBR-W-TYPMISMCH, library type mismatchs > $l  E Well, you didn't say which version of VMS your running, but on my 7.2   system that is not legal syntax.  I Try extracting the module from the library and then analyze it; I believee: your are confusing object modules with library modules....   Barry*   --  ? Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIOT  A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028c   ------------------------------   Date: 1 SEP 2000 15:49:14 GMTl6 From: greenwoodde@feda34.fed.ornl.gov (Dave Greenwood)' Subject: Re: analysing object librariest1 Message-ID: <1SEP00.15491499@feda34.fed.ornl.gov>o   waarom_nok@my-deja.com wrote: 1 > In article <sqqlu03nc5d125@news.supernews.com>,i* >   dpm@myths.com (David P. Murphy) wrote:! > > waarom_nok@my-deja.com wrote:uI > > if it begins with a dash, it is certainly NOT the only thing you get.bI > > what is the preceding line, which i assume begins with a percentsign?  > >h > Okido the full thing:  >  e  > $ ana foo.olb /include=bar.objI > %ANALYZE-E-OPENIN, error opening D$DU2:[DEVSMS.AMF.CTL.OBJ]FOO.OLB;1 as. > inpute) > -LBR-W-TYPMISMCH, library type mismatch  > $e  E Try  LIB/LIS/FULL FOO.OLB  and look at the 1st line to determine whatfE kind of library it really is (or even if it's some other type of fileoF masquerading as an object library file).  A few brief tests on variousD libs using the /INCLUDE qualifier gave me the TYPMISMCH error if theC OLB was an "ALPHA SHAREABLE IMAGE SYMBOL TABLE library", but not ifrD the library was an "ALPHA OBJECT library".  I also got the TYPMISMCH5 error if I tried to analyze a VAX .OLB from an alpha.e  0 Btw, my tests were with VMS 7.2-1 and 7.1-2 AXP.   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOVbH Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 14:26:59 +0200> From: "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr># Subject: apache beginner's questioni2 Message-ID: <8oo7an$79o$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net>   Bonjour  tous  ! I've just installed apache 1.3-12 ) on my DS10 under vms 7.2-1 / tcpip v5.0-Al  8 http://my_node told me the installation was successfull.  8 So I shut down apache and re-ran apache$config to set-up: my site's document root as DQA0:[WWW$ROOT]. This procedure3 changed the protections on the directory and files.b  < After restarting apache, the document root seems still to be apache$root:[htdocs].e  9 When i re-run apache$config, it prompts me for my defaulta< document root, applies protections, but after restarting the, server, it still uses the default home page.  ! I didnt see anything in the logs.   
 Any idea ?   Jean-Franois Marchaly X9000 - LYON (FR)=   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 12:09:06 -0400 . From: Hank Vander Waal <hvanderw@novagate.com> Subject: apache web server8 Message-ID: <000101c0142e$f5a07a40$2b96a8c6@mscmain.com>  8 below is the last couple of lines from apache$server.log3 for a brand new apache install on VMS 7.1 & UCX 4.1t  J I have just installed it and taken all the defaults for the installation. " Anyone tell me what I have to do??   Thanks Hank Vander Waal Mansco         APACHE$WWW (*)   APACHE$ROOT:[000000]     =   APACHE$ROOT:[000000]   =   APACHE$COMMON:[000000]C %IMGACT-F-SYMVECMIS, shareable image's symbol vector table mismatch C -IMGACT-F-FIXUPERR, error when APACHE$HTTPD_SHR referenced DECC$SHR=8   APACHE$WWW   job terminated at  1-SEP-2000 11:59:46.53   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 11:20:40 +0100 B From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>! Subject: Re: Big AlphaServer Salee* Message-ID: <39AF82F8.FC208906@uk.sun.com>   Bill Todd wrote:  < > Jordan Henderson <jordan@lisa.gemair.com> wrote in message& > news:8oj2rj$c8b$1@lisa.gemair.com.... > > In article <39ACE0B2.D59E333A@uk.sun.com>,H > > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: >  > ...p >gK > > >I am confused here, you seem to work for Compaq or thats what your Sig M > > >implies and the same appears to be the case with Jim. So why are both of  > youtI > > >arguing that it should all be part of the OS. Do you realise how out - > > >of line you are with Compaqs top brass ?t > > >= > >hM > > Yes, you are confused.  Compaq marketing also promotes OpenVMS clusteringy# > > as the most advanced available.e >nK > I suspect that Andrew is not in fact confused but is just having a littlemL > fun at VMS's expense.  The fact that Compaq is far more intent on shoutingN > the praises of NT/Win2K capabilities, including its primitive clustering, toN > the world than the capabilities of NSK and Tru64, let alone poor old VMS, isM > inarguable by anyone who is paying attention to Compaq's advertising, pressA > releases, and Web presence.e >a > >nH > > Nowhere in any of those references that you quote will you find thatE > > Compaq or Microsoft are particularly promoting the shared-nothing C > > clustering of Windows 2000 as being highly advanced or the best/ > > way to cluster.e >2K > The first reference says, about the Win2K Datacenter product and program,_J > "The primary objective of the program is to provide the highest level ofF > reliability, scalability and serviceability for line-of-business andH > e-commerce solutions."  And, "For the first time, customers can have aL > solution that combines the economics of an industry-standard platform withJ > the absolute highest-end performance and reliability that was previously> > only available through far more costly proprietary systems." >pL > My reading of those sentiments must be different from yours:  I'd say theyM > clearly (try to) position Win2K Datacenter as an equal to the best the resteJ > of the industry has to offer, not just "Gee, it's really good!", as your > statement below indicates. >e > >lE > > What they are saying, very effectively, is that you can get quiteiE > > excellent price performance and performance on commodity hardwareoF > > with MS-SQL Server.  These solutions do not, today, feature highlyE > > advanced clustering, but I understand that MS is working on that.. >R > ...r >eF > > >BTW I agree with you in the sense that I think that the OS shouldK > > >provide a foundation for clustering I just find it amusing that anyoneIF > > >from Compaq could really be arguing in favour of this because its- > > >not where they are spending their money.! > > >E > >YF > > Compaq spends their money where they can expect to get the largest > > returns. >aK > The perplexing thing (at least from the viewpoint of people interested inrI > VMS's future) is that Compaq *doesn't* spend their money where they canhN > expect to get the largest returns, but rather where they're getting small orL > even negative returns (e.g., consumer and business PCs).  Putting togetherN > figures from diverse sources suggests (strongly) that VMS accounted for overJ > 1/3 of Compaq's *total* corporate profit last year (though a far smallerK > percentage of total revenue) - despite having been actively denigrated byaJ > DEC for most of the '90s and treated at best neutrally by its new parent > when Compaq took over. >$  K I would agree with you in the long term, OpenVMS and Tru64 have contributedoO far more to the bottom line as a proportion of revenue than the Prolaint/Tandemi  N Storage divisions. However it is also apparent that Compaq had a major revenueM issue with Alphaservers last quarter (revenues fell quite markedly). This waseF very suprising given the fact that WildFire had been announced and was	 shipping.n  J This was the kind of thing you would have expected to happen in the months9 before the launch and GA of the equipment not afterwards.=  E Compaq did not breakdown the Alphaserver sales into Tru64 and OpenVMSiO to illustrate where the shortfall occured so it may well be the case that Tru64.  / revenues declined and OpenVMS revenues did not.e  G But either way its bad news. Like it or not both OpenVMS and Tru64 need G each other because although they are different OS's they share the sameSE HW platform and some applications. If say Tru64 was to dissappear thelC economics of OpenVMS production for Compaq would suffer because allfG the platform R&D would need to be financed out of OpenVMS contribution.T  M > And whether there will be huge profits to be made if and when Win2K maturesaL > in those areas is questionable:  it is, after all, a commodity OS, and theH > only conspicuously generous profit associated with it seems to flow toK > Microsoft, with hardware vendors competing too vigorously on price to getrK > anything like the margins high-end systems enjoy today.  Indeed, from theaL > viewpoint of profitability, Compaq may well be better off if Win2K *never*, > grows up (and Linux too, for that matter). >   F Indeed the interesting thing about the whole Wintel market is why manyI of the vendors are in it at all. You can count the number of vendors that0F are making a reasonable return from the Wintel platform on the fingersE of one hand with Intel and MS heading the list. With the exception ofwH Dell most of the other vendors in particular IBM and to a certain extentI Compaq seem to have been subsidising their loss making or at least profitM+ neutral PC divisions with services etc etc.a  G The sad thing for Compaq etc is that it seems to be a merrygoround that0 they cannot get off.     Regards= Andrew Harrisonr Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------    Date: 01 Sep 2000 19:54:42 +08005 From: Paul Repacholi <prep@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>N! Subject: Re: Big AlphaServer SaleS7 Message-ID: <rjqitsgl43h.fsf@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>c  7 "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:   B > This is certainly an area that could stand carefully thought out > improvement.  > Thought? Take gzip. change the open to use multi-buff, and bigD IOs, add RAH,WBH and give it decent initial extents and allocations.   *ONE* line!L  ? Complile allof it in one go, /plus_list with full DECC tweekingS? and see up to 20 fold increase in speed. Oh, and possibly a fewH latent bugs.  ! It is some thought vs no thought.-   PS tailor.h is the file... -- H< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.o@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------    Date: 01 Sep 2000 19:59:24 +08005 From: Paul Repacholi <prep@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>M! Subject: Re: Big AlphaServer Sale 7 Message-ID: <rjqem34l3vn.fsf@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>s  4 rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:  p > In article <rjq66opzd48.fsf@centuri.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>, Paul Repacholi <prep@centuri.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> wrote: > @ > > It is a pity that DECpaq think VMS is out of the Sci area...B > > I am running some comparisons between DU and VMS with the FFTWE > > code package. Get into paging, and VMS is about 4-20 time faster!h > L > Mlucas (which is basically a highly specialized FFT) appears to run nearlyI > neck-and-neck on DU and VMS, when the whole problem fits in memory.  (IeI > don't know that anyone has made a serious study in low-mem situations.) K > VMS can be a few percent slower when it starts having trouble keeping theaH > cache coherent.  We're hoping to find a way around that. DU does use aL > different cache-allocation algorithm, and Mlucas happens to sligthly favor > the DU method.  > I'm going to run the numbers on a later version, but on a M600< FFTW complex 1600x1600 give ~34 Mflop with VMS, 1.7 with DU.< Paging like a pig, ( 32Mb WS ) but a huge diff. With out the= paging, the few percent if down to different versions of DECC36 on each. This was DU 4.0d btw, 5 is on the to-do list.   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.0@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2000 16:09:50 GMT02 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)! Subject: Re: Big AlphaServer Saleo, Message-ID: <8ookce$q9i@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  o In article <rjqem34l3vn.fsf@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>, Paul Repacholi <prep@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> writes:e5 >rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:p >aq >> In article <rjq66opzd48.fsf@centuri.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>, Paul Repacholi <prep@centuri.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> wrote:h >> hA >> > It is a pity that DECpaq think VMS is out of the Sci area... C >> > I am running some comparisons between DU and VMS with the FFTW=F >> > code package. Get into paging, and VMS is about 4-20 time faster!  A It isn't just DECpaq that thinks this - you simply cannot get any C commercial software for it anymore.  For instance, the most popular3F molecular biology package is called "GCG" (www.gcg.com).  We use an anG older version - the current version is not available for OpenVMS.  Theyw$ still have a Tru64 version though.    > To turn this situation around the Q would have to do somethingH extraordinary with respect to OpenVMS marketing, which seems exceedinglyJ unlikely, considering that they seem constitutively incapable of marketingI this OS outside of the data center niche they have chosen for it.  Sadly,iK even if they were considering such a marketing move, now is not the time tosI attempt it, since the performance of VMS on nonCPU bound applications forTE scientific applications is currently very inferior to other OS's.  It1K wouldn't hurt though if they made some effort to at least keep a toe in thecK water, for instance, by FINALLY providing the long rumored new and improved  academic program.    >> aM >> Mlucas (which is basically a highly specialized FFT) appears to run nearly G >> neck-and-neck on DU and VMS, when the whole problem fits in memory.    M That's been my experience too.  _If_ the program is CPU bound _then_ you can oI hardly find a difference between VMS and Tru64 or Linux/Alpha.  There are K some more sophisticated optimizations available in the Tru64 compiler that tL I have yet to try, but in general, CPU bound programs run at about the same I speed.  (As you'd expect given that it's basically the same compiler, and+F once you're CPU bound in a tight loop the OS plays very little role.)    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech e   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2000 14:15:08 GMTr2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)1 Subject: Re: C system service call style questione6 Message-ID: <8oodlc$3p5$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  V In article <8ompie$p7l$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Forrest Cahoon <fcahoon@my-deja.com> writes:B :At first I tried to declare an array of ILE3s in my code, but theI :compiler didn't know what an ILE3 was, so I tried ile3, and that worked.bB :It strikes me a little strange, because I'm running a very recentH :compiler & OS (DEC C V6.0-001 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.1-2), so I would have$ :guessed I had __NEW_STARLET.  Nope!  G   __NEW_STARLET is (and its a rotten name, but I digress) a set of moretF   strict system service definitions rather than the older mellow ones.   It's also OpenVMS Alpha.  C :So how do I use this in code I want to be maximally distributable?r  I   I'd include your own structure definitions at least temporarily -- that K   is the most portable.  That __NEW_STARLET changes the (case of the) name uG   of this structure is pretty ugly, I'll have to see if I can fix that.:  M   You will want to try to pass __NEW_STARLET if you can, as it is a stricter !   set of definitions.   (   Alternatively, consider the following:   #ifdef __NEW_STARLET #define _il3 _IL3y #endif  I   or some such (donno if I've got that redefinition in the right order),  I   and then use the standard iledef.h files.  (I'll likely end up adding arL   definition in ILEDEF.SDL similar to what is done for upper- and lowercase G   system service entry points.)  You'll probably want to use the older AH   non-__NEW_STARLET form as the default for your code, as not all C code*   can come close to passing __NEW_STARLET.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 11:14:22 -0400i# From: John Vottero <John@MVPSI.com>-1 Subject: RE: C system service call style question D Message-ID: <C15945A9D9EFCF11BA8B08002BBF1CCC0CD7D0@berry.mvpsi.com>  J In practice, it's nearly impossible to use __NEW_STARLET because differentG services use different semantics for the same data types.  For example,RB sys$numtim uses a "struct _generic64" for a quadword date/time butH lib$cvt_vectim uses "unsigned __int64" for a quadword date/time.  And inJ either case, all my quadword dates are defined as "VMSDateTime" which is aJ "struct VMSDateTime_struct" so I would have to typecast everything anyway.  3 I seem to recall similar problems with descriptors.n   What I would like to see is:  & 1. All header files use only typedefs.J 2. All of the typedefs used by header files are defined in a single header file    which I can replace.O   Just my 2 cents.   > -----Original Message-----% > From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospamS( > [mailto:hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam]+ > Sent: Friday, September 01, 2000 10:15 AMs > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comt3 > Subject: Re: C system service call style question. >  >  > ; > In article <8ompie$p7l$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Forrest Cahoon   > <fcahoon@my-deja.com> writes:aD > :At first I tried to declare an array of ILE3s in my code, but the? > :compiler didn't know what an ILE3 was, so I tried ile3, and r > that worked.D > :It strikes me a little strange, because I'm running a very recent@ > :compiler & OS (DEC C V6.0-001 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.1-2), so I  > would have& > :guessed I had __NEW_STARLET.  Nope! > > >   __NEW_STARLET is (and its a rotten name, but I digress) a 
 > set of more-H >   strict system service definitions rather than the older mellow ones. >   It's also OpenVMS Alpha. > E > :So how do I use this in code I want to be maximally distributable?r > 8 >   I'd include your own structure definitions at least  > temporarily -- thatS@ >   is the most portable.  That __NEW_STARLET changes the (case  > of the) name u@ >   of this structure is pretty ugly, I'll have to see if I can  > fix that.' > > >   You will want to try to pass __NEW_STARLET if you can, as  > it is a stricter o >   set of definitions.e > * >   Alternatively, consider the following: >  > #ifdef __NEW_STARLET > #define _il3 _IL3c > #endif > = >   or some such (donno if I've got that redefinition in the   > right order), @ >   and then use the standard iledef.h files.  (I'll likely end 
 > up adding ah@ >   definition in ILEDEF.SDL similar to what is done for upper-  > and lowercase ? >   system service entry points.)  You'll probably want to use m > the older @ >   non-__NEW_STARLET form as the default for your code, as not  > all C code, >   can come close to passing __NEW_STARLET. > 5 >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion n > --------------------------- 4 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering    > hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 16:18:36 GMT * From: Forrest Cahoon <fcahoon@my-deja.com>1 Subject: Re: C system service call style question0) Message-ID: <8ooks4$s5u$1@nnrp1.deja.com>e  1 Thanks for the clarification about __NEW_STARLET.   F So, I should be defining __NEW_STARLET in my code before I include anyH VMS system header files in order to use the stricter definitions, right?  , To cover all my bases, perhaps this is best:  G #include <iledef.h>  /* if you have compile errors about the definitionp' of ILE3 try commenting this line out */0   #if defined(__ILEDEF_LOADED) #   if !defined(__NEW_STARLET) #      define ILE3 ile3 	 #   endif  #else8! #pragma __member_alignment __save  typedef struct _ile3 { #pragma __nomember_alignment%     unsigned short int ile3$w_length;s#     unsigned short int ile3$w_code;g     void *ile3$ps_bufaddr;,     unsigned short int *ile3$ps_retlen_addr;     } ILE3;p$ #pragma __member_alignment __restore #endif   That should do it, right?o   Forrest Cahoon    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 11:01:40 GMTu= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)nY Subject: Re: CETS2000 - Hands-On Interactive Registration starts 8/31/2000 High    Noon (e0 Message-ID: <009EF76A.F0EB63C5@SendSpamHere.ORG>  g In article <39AF19A1.536907D3@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:n >Information CETS2000 wrote: >> h >> Jeff, >> eN >> The main menu page now has a link called "Personalized Scheduler." It linksO >> to a page that asks you to come back after noon today.   It's pretty obviousrO >> on the flash site, but it has an arrow to the right side of it that could beuF >> confusing, so I have asked that it be changed to a button that saysL >> "Schedule Your Workshops and Breakouts Here." Also, we are adding anotherO >> button below that one saying "Sessions at a glance" which will link to a PDFtK >> of a spreadsheet showing the breakout sessions in a grid.  These buttonsd= >> should be available on the flash site and the static site.b >t >Um, may I offer a suggestion? >m" >We're inside the 6-week mark now. >iI >Let's can the "whiz-bang" web site and get the content out, even if thatsE >means doing it in plain old boring static HTML. It's easier, faster,r? >more reliable, and doesn't depend on any proprietary software.  >tH >Let's just focus on getting the content out. We've got all next year to >plan and code for CETS2001. > H >By the way - can the music, too. It's DAMNED annoying! ...especially on >a dial-up link!  F Let me quess, the 'teletubbies' do the intel tri-note mantra?  This isF completely childish shit folks, just make the damned site present infoE so that "professionals" can use it -- and not just some prepubescentsrE intent on wasting bandwidth IRC debating the latest "Broccoli Spears"d appearance on the MTV top 10.   H BTW, I absolutely agree with you.  The special session registration linkI is STILL NOT THERE some 20 odd hours after the noon central time startinghG gun was fired yesterday.  By the time it's available to register, abouttI the only session which will be available will be "Increasing world domin-e8 ance through Micro$chlock proprietary web enhancements".   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMe   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 11:12:50 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)tY Subject: Re: CETS2000 - Hands-On Interactive Registration starts 8/31/2000 High Noon (Cene0 Message-ID: <009EF76C.80A12FD1@SendSpamHere.ORG>  \ In article <8onbf4$mpe$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@Killeen.cc> writes:D >The last 12 hours have been just such a joyous experience (sigh)...  I Good for you!  When you come down from your endorphine enhanced euphoria,vI how about looking into the shit happening with this REALLY FUCKING POORLY J EXECUTED CETS2000 WEB SITE FIASCO.  Sorry but it's true.  There's no shameJ in using good old fashioned pen and paper and human interaction to get theI folks scheduled for sessions and lodging.  What this does demonstrate, to J me anyhow, is the complete inappropriateness of these Monopoly$chlock sol-H utions put into place to orchestrate the registration process and, draw-J ing a conclusion from this exposure, the complete inappropriateness of any) Monopoly$chlock solution for any purpose.i  I BTW, I still haven't heard back from the hotel planning gurus that sched-oG uled me for the wrong days at the Bonaventure.  The thought of arrivingvC in LA and having to lodge on the streets is rather disheartening.  c --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMs   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2000 08:54:38 -0500S9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)eY Subject: Re: CETS2000 - Hands-On Interactive Registration starts 8/31/2000 High Noon (Cena+ Message-ID: <5ulCzD$6b1fs@eisner.decus.org>o  p In article <009EF76C.80A12FD1@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:^ > In article <8onbf4$mpe$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@Killeen.cc> writes:E >>The last 12 hours have been just such a joyous experience (sigh)...c > K > Good for you!  When you come down from your endorphine enhanced euphoria,dK > how about looking into the shit happening with this REALLY FUCKING POORLYaL > EXECUTED CETS2000 WEB SITE FIASCO.  Sorry but it's true.  There's no shameL > in using good old fashioned pen and paper and human interaction to get theK > folks scheduled for sessions and lodging.  What this does demonstrate, tonL > me anyhow, is the complete inappropriateness of these Monopoly$chlock sol-J > utions put into place to orchestrate the registration process and, draw-L > ing a conclusion from this exposure, the complete inappropriateness of any+ > Monopoly$chlock solution for any purpose.   D In defense of Microsoft :-), let me say that an inappropriate designC can be done using products from any vendor.  There must be emphasis E on normal testing and human factors testing.  If one is so bold as tobF attempt to do this on the World Wide Web, one is not in control of theG complete configuration, so one must test from every conceivable browser ) with multiple possible security settings.c  D The designers :-) of the software provided for CETS registration andB scheduling have apparently done none of the above.  I could make aB VMS-centric user interface that was equally unusable by those withB Microsoft products (as a start, I would depend on correct terminal4 emulation, but that is a whole separate discussion).  C The real problem is not at the programming level but at the project B management level.  DECUS learned in New Orleans about 15 years agoG that forced replacement of a paper-based system (a cork bulletin board),D with a computerized system (All-In-One to be used by individuals whoD had never used All-In-One and were predisposed against it) was a bad? idea.  A subsequent registration disaster (this one goes out to D Andrew) is when an ultra-spiffy fault-tolerant VAX was set up to runI the registration -- and the electricians wired the three phases up wrong.-  @ But now DECUS is allied with 3 other entities and perhaps is notC in a position to make registration system decisions.  Some of thosepC other entities may be accustomed to dealing in an environment whereuA the _do_ control the client computer environment.  As for the CSAaC organization :-), they have demonstrated for the past year a markedrF inability to understand that someone else's computer environment might( be different from what they use inhouse.  D When anyone designs a computer system their first priority should be to consider the question:d  < 	"How will we continue processing if the computer is down ?"  K Solution to that problem will automatically solve the current CETS problem:M  @ 	"How will we start processing if the computer never comes up ?"   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 12:50:21 GMTw= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)aY Subject: Re: CETS2000 - Hands-On Interactive Registration starts 8/31/2000 High Noon (Ceno0 Message-ID: <009EF77A.1FD35EF5@SendSpamHere.ORG>  g In article <5ulCzD$6b1fs@eisner.decus.org>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:xq >In article <009EF76C.80A12FD1@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:h_ >> In article <8onbf4$mpe$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@Killeen.cc> writes:tF >>>The last 12 hours have been just such a joyous experience (sigh)... >> dL >> Good for you!  When you come down from your endorphine enhanced euphoria,L >> how about looking into the shit happening with this REALLY FUCKING POORLYM >> EXECUTED CETS2000 WEB SITE FIASCO.  Sorry but it's true.  There's no shame5M >> in using good old fashioned pen and paper and human interaction to get thepL >> folks scheduled for sessions and lodging.  What this does demonstrate, toM >> me anyhow, is the complete inappropriateness of these Monopoly$chlock sol-wK >> utions put into place to orchestrate the registration process and, draw-aM >> ing a conclusion from this exposure, the complete inappropriateness of anye, >> Monopoly$chlock solution for any purpose. >IE >In defense of Microsoft :-), let me say that an inappropriate design   < Sorry Larry, but we all knwo that Micro$oft is indefensible.  D >can be done using products from any vendor.  There must be emphasis  C True.  But in this case, the presentation is tied rather tightly torB the Redmond Institute for Misfit Programmer's products and, I con-B tent, that knot was easily tied because of the use of said instit- ute's products.h  D >The real problem is not at the programming level but at the projectC >management level.  DECUS learned in New Orleans about 15 years agoeH >that forced replacement of a paper-based system (a cork bulletin board)E >with a computerized system (All-In-One to be used by individuals whonE >had never used All-In-One and were predisposed against it) was a bade@ >idea.  A subsequent registration disaster (this one goes out toE >Andrew) is when an ultra-spiffy fault-tolerant VAX was set up to run J >the registration -- and the electricians wired the three phases up wrong.   Poof... smoke...  A >But now DECUS is allied with 3 other entities and perhaps is not D >in a position to make registration system decisions.  Some of thoseD >other entities may be accustomed to dealing in an environment whereB >the _do_ control the client computer environment.  As for the CSAD >organization :-), they have demonstrated for the past year a markedG >inability to understand that someone else's computer environment mightt) >be different from what they use inhouse.t  C Don't start me on the CSA!  3 times the cost for 1/3 (and I'm being 2 rather gracious here) the benefit of the old ASAP.  E >When anyone designs a computer system their first priority should bes >to consider the question: >g= >	"How will we continue processing if the computer is down ?"P   CTRL-ALT-DEL...l  L >Solution to that problem will automatically solve the current CETS problem: >.A >	"How will we start processing if the computer never comes up ?",   CTRL-ALT-DEL...-   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMc   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 09:56:03 -04002 From: "Kirby Jones" <kirby@networkingdynamics.com>) Subject: Re: CETS2000- Hotel Reservations.. Message-ID: <kwOr5.5$k4.23727@news.intnet.net>   Man you better believe it!  J Try and change a name after you have registered. I've been working on this
 for weeks.  + It's not a workable system and a real pain.t   Kirby Jonesc    - Earl Lakia <lakia@ipact.com> wrote in message # news:39AE7EB2.9FE698AF@ipact.com...sF > So I registered but did not get a room or plane ticket.  Tried to go
 > back andI > do that, but the web page won't let me add a room.  The Symposia packetiC > didn't include phone numbers so now I have to find them myselves.  >S" > Anyone else have these problems? >e > -- > Earl Lakia >e >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 10:18:19 -0700   From: Jon <jsmyth69@hotmail.com>$ Subject: CETS: Sessions at a glance?2 Message-ID: <s+SvOUJMGwPHf0WiGWXFScmv5Mzp@4ax.com>  E Ok, I saw a reference posted for this, Anyone know where I can get toL it?  Thanks!   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 12:50:40 -0400- From: "Roger D. Oliver" <oliverr@voyager.net>n# Subject: CMUIP on OpenVMS v7.1 VAX?h9 Message-ID: <39afdeef$0$56653$7aa13262@news.net-link.net>   E I have tried to get CMUIP running on my pair of VAX 4600 and VAX 4300 H systems -- running OpenVMS v7.1 without luck.  Same results on VAXserver 3100 running openVMS v7.1.  H When it goes to compile the software during the installation, it bitches about a missing .obj file.  L Anybody know what I am talking about?  Is there some .obj option kits in VMS3 v7.1 that I should install to gain greater success.-  L We have UCX running on a pile of Alphas, but would **REALLY** like to get IPJ going on these VAXen "on the cheap" since they will be trash canned in theF foreseeable future.  All I need to do is terminal incoming and printer% outgoing connections -- nothing else.-   thanks!A   Roger Oliver
 Sys Analyst 2@ City of Kalamazoo    ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 18:25:45 +0100 (GDT)c) From: Andy Harper <Andy.Harper@kcl.ac.uk>a' Subject: Re: CMUIP on OpenVMS v7.1 VAX? 1 Message-ID: <SIMEON.10009011845.A@odin.kcl.ac.uk>i  4 On Fri, 1 Sep 2000 12:50:40 -0400 "Roger D. Oliver"  <oliverr@voyager.net> wrote:  G > I have tried to get CMUIP running on my pair of VAX 4600 and VAX 4300tJ > systems -- running OpenVMS v7.1 without luck.  Same results on VAXserver > 3100 running openVMS v7.1. > J > When it goes to compile the software during the installation, it bitches > about a missing .obj file. > N > Anybody know what I am talking about?  Is there some .obj option kits in VMS5 > v7.1 that I should install to gain greater success.r > N > We have UCX running on a pile of Alphas, but would **REALLY** like to get IPL > going on these VAXen "on the cheap" since they will be trash canned in theH > foreseeable future.  All I need to do is terminal incoming and printer' > outgoing connections -- nothing else.n   5   Yes, this problem is explained in the CMU FAQ. See:o5      http://www.agh.cc.kcl.ac.uk/files/vms/cmu-tcpip/i   Regards,   Andy Harper3 Kings College London   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 09:55:01 -0400i) From: Bob Ricci <maxx0623@concentric.net>6
 Subject: dcpsM< Message-ID: <00d601c0141c$38fdf0a0$585b5cc0@socrates.Subway>  F i have a hp laserjet 40tn and am trying to print landscape- set up the9 ip_rawtcp/192.92.91.68:9100 port and on the generic queueiL page_orientation=landscape....the queus set up properly, but i have to resetK the queues every time i print as they remain in a starting state....until i'L reset then all prints normally- i have tried manually setting the printer toH autosense and ps - but neither helps...aanyone else having this problem? Robert V. Riccii Systems Managere Drs. Associates (SUBWAY) 325 Bic Dr.  Milford, Ct 06460   tel  203 877 4281 ext 1144_ fax to pc 203 783 7144  fax 203 876 6682i email ricci_r@subway.com  or     maxx0623@concentric.netn http://www.subway.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 11:04:23 -0400u0 From: Paul Anderson <paul.r.anderson@compaq.com> Subject: Re: dcps C Message-ID: <paul.r.anderson-E3AF7B.11042301092000@news.compaq.com>a  G In article <00d601c0141c$38fdf0a0$585b5cc0@socrates.Subway>, Bob Ricci    <maxx0623@concentric.net> wrote:  E > i have a hp laserjet 40tn and am trying to print landscape- set up _@ > the ip_rawtcp/192.92.91.68:9100 port and on the generic queue F > page_orientation=landscape....the queus set up properly, but i have O > to reset the queues every time i print as they remain in a starting state....S  H What HP printer do you have?  DCPS V1.7 and later supports the 4000 but G not the 4050.  Also check the DCPS Release Notes for information about M minimum firmware versions.   Paul   -- o,    Paul Anderson, OpenVMS Engineering (DCPS),    Compaq Computer Corporation, Littleton MA   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 11:25:35 -0500 (CDT)e From: Rich.Helmke@cais.cus.edu Subject: Duplicate postings?- Message-ID: <01JTNO3H84509ZLN9Z@crf.cuis.edu>f  D For the last day or so, I've been receiving duplicate postings from B INFO-VAX email distribution.  It appears that portal.west.saic.comD is simultaneously delivering a copy of each message to more than one" node in my VMS cluster at a time.    Curious behavior,i -Rich   C Richard A. Helmke                Internet: Rich.Helmke@cais.cus.edul Assoc Prof, Computer ScienceC System Manager, Technical Services              Voice: 708-209-3221iC Concordia Administrative Information Systems    Fax:   708-209-31773 River Forest, IL 60305-1499p  8 "Quality is not a thing. It is an event." -Robert PirsigE "When it comes to quality or to employees, there is nothing so costlyj  as being cheap." -Dale Dauten   ------------------------------    Date: 01 Sep 2000 21:13:42 +08005 From: Paul Repacholi <prep@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>a% Subject: Re: Error status from VMSTarI7 Message-ID: <rjqaedsl0ft.fsf@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>    calepine@my-deja.com writes:  ' > In article <oodp5.91$qy6.843@client>,6 >   "Dominic Olivastro"v% > <DOlivastro@ChiResearch.com> wrote:k2 > > Thanks for the response, but it isn't working. > Succeed or fail, the+ > > response from TAR is always $Status = 1i > >c > > Any other ideas?   Anyone? > 3 > vmstar is probably not built with the _posix_exitt1 > feature test macro, so exit(0) and exit(1) botho/ > probably call sys$exit with SS$_NORMAL (whichu2 > happens to be 1).  Look at the docs to exit() in > the C RTL manual:u  6 The C RTL changes exit(0) to exit(1) but not vis-versa -- h< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.r@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 14:18:19 +0100L  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com Subject: Re: I&DS Book QuestiontH Message-ID: <OF2FEB97DD.CAAC2E59-ON8025694C.004872CB@qedi.quintiles.com>  ! Brian Schenenberger wrote/quoted:dJ >>>>bookshops I visited earlier this year (new, old stock), although I wasK >actually after something different (the elusive, reasonably priced copy ofaI >the VAXCluster Principles text......  For which I'm still searching....)l  K I searched the BH web site and it appears that it is no longer in print! :(   6 I'll ask about it when I speak with them this week.<<<  G I had a discussion with a lady from BH earlier this year.  They haven'tbF sent it out-of-print but rather passed it to another company (Books on% Demand) to deal with.  Their web-site D (http://wwwlib.umi.com/bod/search/basic) reckons that their price isH $186.70 which is a little (!!!) bit higher than the original print price  and is a big high for my pocket.   Steve.   ------------------------------  " Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 12:40:47 GMT( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com> Subject: Re: I&DS Book Questioni' Message-ID: <G07KJz.Fq7@spcuna.spc.edu>p  " steven.reece@quintiles.com writes:I > I had a discussion with a lady from BH earlier this year.  They haven't H > sent it out-of-print but rather passed it to another company (Books on' > Demand) to deal with.  Their web-site0F > (http://wwwlib.umi.com/bod/search/basic) reckons that their price isJ > $186.70 which is a little (!!!) bit higher than the original print price" > and is a big high for my pocket.  F   That is a real ripoff. Given that demand-based printing is done withF high-speed laser printers, the actual cost to produce should be on theF order of the same 5 cents/page that copy shops charge. Adding that $30C (it's 600 pages) to the original list price of about $50, this bookA should cost under $80.  -   Barnes & Noble claims to be able to get it: I http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/bookSearch/isbnInquiry.asp?ISBN=1555581129s  F   Amazon lists it at the $186.70 price, 1 page, 3-5 weeks, which means# they're listing the demand version.c  - 	Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.comt5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USAo   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 14:06:29 +0100u- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>h! Subject: Re: IMAP-Server for VMS?u) Message-ID: <39AFA9D5.A44C2841@bbc.co.uk>s  % Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk wrote:v  ? > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plazai > 5 > I would like to be the first, but I'd be fibbing...0 > Q >  Just as a sanity check, is there anybody out there that can report a situation0M > where the network people aren't running the whole show, and are expected tojH > provide required services, not dictate what protocols can or cannot be* > transmitted over the network?  Even one? >d  I  Oh, bow down to the great God Cisco for the skills required to configuremG it are a highly guarded secret, especially from those who could run theeK network in the free time they have watching those oh so reliable VMS boxes, L and configure it to run as many other protocols as well as IP as are needed.  & Call it job security? Call me a cynic?   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uka  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 08:36:21 -0400a0 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty.NOSPAM@sas.com>4 Subject: Re: Interesting FTP file corruption problem2 Message-ID: <KqGvOQFHEvvtZSXR5iFCNObgebJw@4ax.com>  A On occaision, I have seen problems with UCX FTP corrupting files, D especially on large record sizes.  The most likely fix is to installF a later ECO on the receiving system.  I've run V4.2 ECO 3 at a former C site with no problems, I think ECO 4 is the latest.  You could alsouF try upgrading to V5.0A, but I've heard there are issues with TELNET in  ! that version; check DSN on those.o  3 On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 21:03:51 -0400, arturo saavedra ! <arturo.saavedra@wcom.com> wrote:l   >  o) >Wondering if anybody had ever seen this:  >  >Sender:
 >Alpha 800 >UCX 4.2 eco 2 >a
 >Receiver: >Alpha es40        Alpha es40o >UCX 4.2 eco 2	TCPIP 5.0aa >7.1-2			7.1-2 >s	 >Problem:eB >When FTPing an Indexed file from Alpha800 to es40 running UCX, we >get a file corruption.o >cB >If we FTP that same file to the es40 running 50a, we do not get a >file corruption.  >  >Gets odder:C >FTP that same file to a Alpha es40 to a disk where the volume has e@ >been mounted witha file extent > 18 blocks and we do not get a  >file corruption?  >l >nA >Any thoughts would be welcomed.. this is a really odd behaviour.v >a >Thanks!   ------------------------------  / Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 08:26:04 +0200 (MET DST)n& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>, Subject: Re: Is there any new Alpha CPU out?6 Message-ID: <200009010622.IAA00614@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  < thanks to Terry Shannon. That was what I would like to know.   Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 11:28:24 -0400o+ From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>d, Subject: RE: Is there any new Alpha CPU out?J Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284756@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com>   Rudolf,   F You are correct in that marketing is a huge component of "the fastest" cpu's.  J Here is the actual latest industry standard benchmarks for CPU, memory and compiler optimizations:tE <http://ideasinternational.com/benchmark/spec/specfp2000.html> SpecFP I <http://ideasinternational.com/benchmark/spec/specint2000.html> Spec Int.   I Also, keep in mind that the 1Ghz x86 designs are WS / dept server designsl  only ie. single / dual cpu only.  I The greater than 2 cpu x86 Server designs (Xeon etc) are still at 550 and0 700Mhz.2L <http://commerce.www.ibm.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce/CategoryDisplay?cntrfnbr=1&cg2 menbr=1&cgnbr=Netfinity+7600&cntry=840&lang=en_US>  3 <http://www.compaq.com/products/servers/platforms/>.   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant,
 Compaq Canada. Professional Servicesi Voice : 613-592-4660 FAX   : 819-772-7036 Email : kerry.main@compaq.com1       -----Original Message------ From: Rudolf Wingert [mailto:win@FOM.FGAN.DE]r' Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 2:45 AM. To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComK, Subject: Re: Is there any new Alpha CPU out?     Hello,  D you are all right: MHz is not all. But it is marketing. Why does AMD@ and Intel fight the MHz war? AMD does not say we have the betterC systembus, the better architecture implementation, the smaller chipRA design. The did say: "We do have the fastestes CPU (MHz)." Now doeB Intel say: "We do have the fastestes CPU (MHz)." The OpenVMSler do> know the truth, but do the normal PC user also know the truth.C My question did have an other direction. I did see, that Compaq didtB sold 1.25GHz Alphas to the NNSA, and so I would like to know, when do they relise them.   Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 08:17:55 +0100r2 From: Chris Sharman <Chris.Sharman@CCAgroup.co.uk>) Subject: Re: LPD printing to a Xerox265ST). Message-ID: <39AF6633.32C45C9C@CCAgroup.co.uk>   e__zy@my-deja.com wrote:2 > I'm in desperate need of help...We are currently0 > running VMS 6.2 (w/ UCX 4.2 ECO 4) on an Alpha. > 4100 platform and I am experiencing problems/ > setting up VMS to print to a Xerox Docucentero2 > 265ST printer.  I am using telnet printing under3 > UCX printing to various HP jetdirects without anys1 > problems.  However, this damn Xerox has left mea, > scratching my head!  We are not having any0 > problems printing to it under NT 4.0...but the > VMS setup is escaping me.d  & I presume you do mean lpd, not telnet.; Configure lpd on with @ucx$config from system; then use mcro; ucx$lprsetup. You can define queues directly with a editor,wG but the lprsetup program maintains the startup & shutdown files as well  as the printcap file.   $ Here's our Xerox Splash queue, fwiw.E If after you've done all that you're still having problems, I suggeste you post more details.   Chrisu   SPLASH:\,         :lf=/clu_common/UCX_LPD/SPLASH.LOG:\         :lp=SPLASH:\         :rm=splash:\         :rp=splash_server:\t         :sd=/disk$black/SPLASH:o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 14:07:49 +0200t$ From: Teschner <Teschner@cityweb.de>3 Subject: openvms install on workstation 533au hangsa* Message-ID: <39AF9C15.DE07F13A@cityweb.de>  G The installation of openvms from hobbyist CD on my Personal Workstationb 533aur( (firmware updated) hangs after boot with   OpenVMS ...  V7.2    on the screen.   any hints ?    thanks in advanceu  
 W.Teschner   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 17:24:10 +0100t  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com2 Subject: Re: Oracle/VMS (in the US) teleconferenceH Message-ID: <OF0826B41B.482EEDA2-ON8025694C.005A05E4@qedi.quintiles.com>  3 No, but I'd be interested in what got discussed....: Dave Gudewicz wrote:; >>>Anyone tune in to this week's Oracle/VMS teleconference?T   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 01 Sep 00 08:12:39 GMTV From: jmfbahciv@aol.com " Subject: Re: Q: Why not (2^n)-bit?+ Message-ID: <8oo371$cs7$1@bob.news.rcn.net>K  8 In article <o4usqsso9a3jgs8h7anmmac88hk4lj4pg9@4ax.com>,$    jlsue <jlsuexxxz@home.com> wrote:, >On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 00:26:27 GMT, Ric Werme# ><werme@nospam.mediaone.net> wrote:e >n >>jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:. >>; >>>And that's because, in order to prepare for the sale to t= >>>Compaq, all of the profitable pieces of Digital were sold.c >>I >>And a lot of losing pieces.  Selling the Hudson Fab to Intel as part ofeG >>a patent infringement settlement was a wonderful move, about the onlyt2 >>praiseworthy thing Bob Palmer did in his tenure. >>G >>VMS was kept.  Like it or not, they bring in a Gigabuck a year or so.y >>2 >>DECnet was sold.  Can't argue with that, either. >>C >>When Digital floated a junk bond in 1992/93 when I rejoined after0D >>Alliant's demise, that really brought home how utterly clueless KOE >>and Digital were about what the computer industry had morphed into.@G >>I suspect if Digital hadn't started layoffs and selling divisions fornF >>another 6 months, chapter 11 would have been a distinct possibility. >pG >Chapter 11?  Seriously?  I always thought DEC's exceptionally low debtj  >made their losses tolerable...   = They didn't have a low debt after Palmer started spending, ora" should I say, throwing away money.  % > ...assuming, of course, that they'd-E >eventually turn things around.  Heck, by the time Compaq bought DEC,nE >they had over $3.5Billion in the bank... and this is *after* all then >charges from the layoffs.  C Didn't that $3.5billion also happen to include the retirement fund?r   >eA >How the heck could a company with that much scratch need to filer >Chapter 11?   Creative accounting?   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.P   ------------------------------  ! Date: Fri, 01 Sep 00 08:14:05 GMTn From: jmfbahciv@aol.com " Subject: Re: Q: Why not (2^n)-bit?+ Message-ID: <8oo39o$cs7$2@bob.news.rcn.net>n  0 In article <39AEF04D.2EC232DB@bellatlantic.net>,)    hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net> wrote:- >- >- >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:0 >> 54 >> In article <39ae2fab.266407563@news.newsguy.com>,- >>    A.Greig@viirgin.net (Alan Greig) wrote: < >> >On Wed, 30 Aug 00 08:53:27 GMT, jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >5 >> >>In article <39ab70a9.86436118@news.newsguy.com>,g >> >J >> >>>The major blunder in my opinion was lying to customers. We had heardK >> >>>the rumours about cancellation and called in DEC who absolutely pointXH >> >>>blank assured as that Jupiter would not be cancelled., Absolutely  100% >> >>>categorically assured us.h >> >>b- >> >>Did you have a non-disclosure agreement?a >> >I >> >Yes but I assume nobody will take my to court for breaking it so manyd >> >years later. >> r< >> That wasn't why I asked the question.  The non-disclosure= >> business was a joke because customers (who didn't have thee: >> agreement) would call Jim up and tell him stuff that he> >> didn't know and ask him to verify the so-called rumor.  (We: >> sometimes had the opinion that applying a piece of duct> >> tape across the mouths of project managers and sales people- >> would have been a really cost saving ECO.)n >> r> >> I asked the question because there was a flurry of activity; >> trying to get the cancellation info out to the customers0; >> that did sign an agreement before the rumor mill got out1: >> their drums.  IIRC, it took three days for our managers4 >> to tell us after the first rumor of cancellation. >> c; >> >A number of UK universities were given 2020s free whilenJ >> >they waited for Jupiter as well. Wonder how much that cost if repeated >> >worldwide? >>  A >> Jeez.  Everybody seems to have been stupid about that project.tA >> I remember fighting with my last breath with the FORTRAN group $ >> to not write the OTS ala Jupiter. >> a8 >> >Which reminds me of a TOPS-20 cookie. Don't know whoJ >> >originated it but it said: "The 2020 was really made in Poland by IBM" >> 1F >> I hadn't heard that one. :-)  I couldn't get my work done on a 2020D >> so I mostly ignored it except for certification and system access
 >> crises. >> - >> > >> >>>- >> >>>Then they cancelled it two weeks later.A >> >> > >> >>And that was the best thing that could have happened.  If= >> >>the Jupiter project had continued, there would have beent> >> >>no funding for implementing DECnet Phase III and IV.  The8 >> >>company would have tanked in 1985 rather than 1995. >> >I >> >I've certainly heard the cost argument before but that doesn't excuse8 >> >misleading a customer. >> uE >> I'm not excusing it.  I think we sorta gave up trying to "correct"v= >> that behaviour after the SMP fiasco.  Instead there was anaB >> underground created as far as TOPS-10 customers were concerned,- >> especially when DECUS funding was chopped.s >> c1 >> >Even the worst figures I've seen for the 2080i9 >> >put it at 10 times the performance of the VAX 11-780.  >> M> >> Whoopy-skip.  It wouldn't have run a TOPS operating system.= >> I'm not sure how to say this to get the point across.  The1= >> only thing the customers really, really cared about wasn'tD9 >> how sexy fast the CPU ran.  It was how much work theirs= >> users got done.  And single CPU configurations just didn't ! >> cut it...and they still don't.r  > >But we were running what on the simulator? Bugs, Ted, Can you; >answer this one, I thought it wastops10, could havebeen 20y< >I just remember finding all those delay loops that did not B >work on the simulator.  JRST0 followed by a JRST0 executed in one >cycle.  <snip>   A simulator is not hardware.   /BAH  ' Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.c   ------------------------------  / Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 08:31:26 +0200 (MET DST)3& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de> Subject: Re: SCSI Tape drive6 Message-ID: <200009010628.IAA00636@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  C you don't write what's your current tape drive is. So my answer ist D speculative. If you will have the money buy a DLT8000 (Quantum looksF ok, with Tandberg we do have problems), or an Overland DLT Autolaoder.D If you will have less money, buy a DDS4 DAT tape drive (we have good! experience with the HP products).q   Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 10:47:03 GMTt& From: A.Greig@viirgin.net (Alan Greig) Subject: Re: SCSI Tape drive1 Message-ID: <39af83a4.353441732@news.newsguy.com>t  8 On Fri, 01 Sep 2000 00:14:52 -0400, "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com> wrote:  G >        It's not easy to come up with "something a tad faster" withoutO >knowing what you've got.b >)B >        The TZ89/DLT7000 at about $7000 is pretty fast and pretty9 >expensive.  The TZ88/DLT4000 can be had for about $2000.p >oF >        Note that the speed of the tape drive may not be the limitingK >factor!  You have to get the data off the disk and through the main memor=  >yK >before you can write it to tape.  That has traditionally been the slowest=- >-K >aspect of BACKUP.  The modifications to BACKUP at VMS V5.2 helped a LOT b=e >uti% >it's still not what you'd call fast.t   See below...   >2F >        An AlphaServer 4100 with 1.5Gb of memory, KZPSA host adaptersK >talking to EMC Symmetrix disk can pump out 6-8Gb/hour to a TZ88.  Similar=t >)? >performance can be had with a Raid Array 450 (HSZ50, RZ29-VW).e  E An ES40 reading from dual HSZ80 controllers (three member stripe set,wD each member dual mirrorset) and writing to a TZ89 can sustain aroundE 10MB/sec compressed (the drives capacity) or around 35GByte/hr. I saweC similar performance figures with a 4100/HSZ70/TZ89 in a brief test.e@ I'd expect to see 15-20Gbyte/hr with a TZ88. The account runningE BACKUP *must* be tuned as per system manager manual advice to preventb@ the drive stalling with lots of small files or a fragmented file@ system Your performance can crash right down if the drive has toE stop/start. If quotas allow it BACKUP will happily buffer hundreds of-E megabytes before streaming to tape. Also just bumping up WSEXTENT andeD PGFLQUO isn't enough as backup appears to actually look at WSDEF andC WSQUO values rather than just keep allocating memory until it can'tw
 get any more.   E These are not hypothetical best case figures as our overnight backupstC sustain this rate and we backup over 100 Gigabytes in 3 hours every F night to a single TZ89 (well TZ891 mini robot or whatever its called).  E We're now sending two peope to Amsterdam on Advanced Legato Networker > courses to figure out why our NT and Unix teams can't get thisA performance out of a TZ89 connected to these system - or at leasti4 that's why they say then need to go to Amsterdam ;-)    ) >Message text written by "Russell Leathe"tK >>I need to replace my current SCSI tape drive with something a tad faster=) >. >Any recommendations...f >oE >platform  =3D Alpha 1200 5/533 OpenVMS 7.2, 6-DSRZ1CF 4.3gb drives.<o >  >e   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 08:30:00 -0500 " From: Earl Lakia <lakia@ipact.com> Subject: Re: SCSI Tape drive) Message-ID: <39AFAF58.28347186@ipact.com>   L The last DECUS I went to had a product that would allow you to make a backupI one disk to another disk.  It was a point in time backup.  You could thene backupK the backup to tape at your liesure.  The point here is that disks are cheapI andeK faster than tape drives.  If your problem is that your database or whateverl isE not available while you are doing a backup, this might be the answer.e  D Anyway, with this product, you never have to take your database downG for any extended period (if you had multiple volumes, with table spacespD and roll back segments, etc).  You would take the database down longF enough to start the mirror like copies for all of the volumes and then start the databases back up.  B I would have to dig up my 1998 DECUS notes to find the name of the? product.  Maybe COMPAQ folks could enlighten us.  Or maybe thishE is just a bunch of babble that doesn't help your situation.  Anyway I I thought it was a great idea.  Haven't used it anywhere, but still a greato idea.   1 my two cents and most likely not worth much more.e --
 Earl Lakia   Russell Leathe wrote:   K > I need to replace my current SCSI tape drive with something a tad faster.t > Any recommendations... >rC > platform  = Alpha 1200 5/533 OpenVMS 7.2, 6-DSRZ1CF 4.3gb drives.e >o > all the best,o >y > russ   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 09:42:59 +0200% From: "Fred Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl>0! Subject: Re: Six Figure Income !!a. Message-ID: <8onmm2$aj4$1@info.service.rug.nl>  C Does anyone on this list or in the newsgroup take care of spam by =v sending an abuse?a                                F.Z.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 08:21:58 -0400 0 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty.NOSPAM@sas.com>! Subject: Re: Six Figure Income !!.2 Message-ID: <LZ+vOaFq8LJi4KUP3I05XUA+9XBg@4ax.com>  A I only do it when it's sent directly to me, not to the newsgroup.'6 I would think the newsgroup administrator would manage that ...  B On Fri, 1 Sep 2000 09:42:59 +0200, "Fred Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> wrote:  T >Does anyone on this list or in the newsgroup take care of spam by sending an abuse? >:! >                            F.Z.R >i >: >A   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 09:52:55 +0100* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Stop programmeg, Message-ID: <8onqpa$10fg@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>  D "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@nnnoospam.met.co.nz> wrote in message, news:I2Ar5.5522$cr3.177405@ozemail.com.au...@ > Anyone heard of a stop programme that will kill a process that3 > has got into an RWMBX state, that can't be killedf > by a stop/id command?   I Identifying the mailbox it is trying to write to and dumping the contentsk> often works. Analyse/system, show process/channels, exit, copy mailbox NL:   C Of course, the application may do strange things at that point, andr9 you need to make a judgement on whether it's a good idea.4   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 11:01:55 +0100wB From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist* Message-ID: <39AF7E93.381CE77A@uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:  q > In article <39AE62FF.5D19D867@uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:u >f > > K > > As I said re-read the last paragraph and note the action the datacenter.% > > manager took and note the result.s > >rN > > What did he say, we were having problems we reduced the temperature in ourB > > datacenter and the problem went away, what does that tell you. > >i >lK > > So here is a question, do you know what causes the majority of hardwareh; > > failures on all systems not just Sun's but all systems.n > J >         Ummmmm... using the same crappy design as a Sun high-end server?J >         Just a guess.  Actually, you're probably after "heat."  I'll buyK >         that.  Funny how much of this Sun hardware is surrounded by othernF >         hardware that works fine.  Must be a tough sell to push thatI >         "heat" angle in a 75 degree computer room where everything else ! >         is just fine.  Spin on!7 >0  @ Sorry wrong the biggest cause of hardware failure on all systemsD not just Sun's is static discharge. Some studies have put it as high as 70% of all failures.   < Now people who know what they are talking about will now say? well Rob was sort of right though he didn't realise why becausemF heat is a contributing factor to making static discharges more likely.  J But it isn't the only cause, the kind of floor you have in your datacenterP is a contributory factor and a whole host of other variables. Where the machinesW are in a datacenter is also an issue, being on the row next to any of the main walkwayseZ for example particularly if you have the wrong flooring and other issues like low relativeJ humidity will expose those machines to a higher chance of failure than theL machines in the same datacenter that are not next door to the main walkways.  L Paradoxically Rob you may think that the publicity about Sun's Ecache issuesD has caused a negative impact on Sun's image with its major customers and for some this is true.  N However a lot of customers have turned arround and said after their datacenterL assessment that Sun was the first vendor who has ever explained to them whatM the issues are and why they should take the actions we have recommended. FromcS you posting it would appear that although you are unlikely to thank Sun for putting P you in the picture you would at leat have learnt something that would be usefullL to help you keep all the systems in your datacenter running without hardware	 failures.t  N Most customers seem to assume that if they keep systems within their operatingN temperature ranges and humidity ranges they will be reliable, when in fact theO systems will be more reliable (from all vendors) if they are operated in a mucht- tighter range of temperatures and humidities.i  I Your post reveals that you like the majority of customers were completelyoO unaware of the fact that the majority of the hardware failures you have seen onHR all the computer systems you have used have been caused by static, Sun's, Compaqs,J Digital boxes etc. Why didn't you know, if you had known earlier would youQ (even with Compaqs etc) have taken more care of the environment that your systemscP run in ? would you for example have carpet tiles in you datacenter ? you may notP but people do ? would you monitor the relative humidity of the envrionment ? youN may but many people don't ? would you make sure that the sub-floor pressure is: is correct ? that the sub-floor is clean ? etc etc etc etc  K Your datacenter practice may well be exemplary in which case you don't needeL to worry about these issues but the fact that you didn't appear to know whatK the single most important cause of hardware failure is implies that if yourOL datacenter is well managed it is not because people are aware of the issues,( or they havn't communicated this to you.   Regardse Andrew Harrisons Enterprise IT Architecte   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 11:30:33 +0100 / From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> * Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist7 Message-ID: <009EF790.8165FB82.13@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>j  D Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:  _ > What did he say, we were having problems we reduced the temperature in our datacenter and the - > problem went away, what does that tell you.f  O Full news article still appended. Andrew quoted me way out of context recently;>K I'm not about to do the same. For the record: "some chance" of a VMScluster L becoming software-wedged was in the context of a discussion of hard realtimeM problems such as controlling a space shuttle in flight, and further qualified G by "provoked by hardware failure", things you chose to leave out of the'K quote. Though I guess I should be flattered that I'm worth quoting. Anyway:   N What this tells me is that Sun's engineering is at best cutting things awfully5 close, and more probably has erred on the wrong side.i  I A manufacturer specifies an acceptable environment for the kit; typically H something like 32C at 8000ft (thin air at 8000ft is far worse at coolingD than sea-level air). And since that's a promise to customers, normalI practice is actually to test internally at some higher temperature and/or'H altitude, to allow oneself some safety margin should a customer actuallyP be using the kit in a very warm climate with marginally adequate airconditioning at 8000ft! ,  I Few datacentres are above 1000ft altitude, and the aircon is normally setnH around 21C. This gives them a considerable safety margin against partialG failure of the airconditioning or less than perfect distribution of the K cooled air. (I've always worked on the principle that if the environment iseI confortable for humans to work in, commercial grade computers should also-N be happy. And I've always been surprised by how much thermal abuse even cheap 3 PCs can put up with -- in contrast to their users!)D  < Unless you are prepared to state categorically that the siteE in question was actually running the kit in question well outside its K specified environmental envelope, the conclusion I'd draw is that this Sun n% hardware is inadequately engineered.     	Yours,)
 		Nigel Arnotn- 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                      7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."u   ------------------    D Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes: > # > steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:e > > > > Andrew Harrison (andrew dot nospam at youknowwhere) wrote:R > > >>>Yup, nice try but no cigar. You either didn't read the article right to theO > > end or you chose to ignore the last paragraph because you didn't understanddL > > or didn't want to contemplate the implications of what the person quoted > > was saying.<<< > >ea > > But I think Rob did read the last paragraph and so did I.  Let me quote (the Shoemaker is Suna. > > Executive Vice President John Shoemaker) : > >e[ > > "According to Shoemaker, Sun hasn't been able to narrow the problem to any one specificnW > > cause.  Sun believes the problems may have been caused by a combination of factors,e\ > > including defective components from one of Sun's suppliers, poor packaging of the memory: > > chips on the system boards and environmental factors." > >nq > > So, defective components from a supplier :== Perhaps poor QA on someones part (although not necessarily Sun)?o` > > Poor packaging of the memory chips on the system boards :== Perhaps poor QA on someones part# > > (although not necessarily Sun)?2o > > Environmental factors :== Depends, but if everything else in the datacenter is happy then it's damn strange l > > to me that one type of system is having problems due to its environment.  Not impossible you understand, > > just damn strange. > >>~ > > Naturally my interpretation of the article may be slightly in error, in which case I will look forward to being corrected. > _ > As I said re-read the last paragraph and note the action the datacenter manager took and note 
 > the result.  > _ > What did he say, we were having problems we reduced the temperature in our datacenter and the - > problem went away, what does that tell you.l > a > So here is a question, do you know what causes the majority of hardware failures on all systemst! > not just Sun's but all systems.e > 8 > If you know the answer to this question then continue. > X > Assuming you knew the answer to the first question, why would reducing the temperaturea > in the datacenter reduce the incidence of the major cause of failure for all computer hardware.c >  > 	 > regardsw > Andrew Harrisoni > Enterprise IT Architecte >  >  >  >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2000 11:30:43 -0500P* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist+ Message-ID: <6WudcFIIQ0wq@eisner.decus.org>8    Nice overview on environmentals!  @ You go on about static discharge and yet it has a lot to do withG humidity which you fail to mention.  So its static discharge... is thatpJ your ace in the hole?  Still doesn't explain why your employer is cluelessE as to the cause.  You trot out static discharge as if that is what weuD are all suffering from.  The datacenter next to me has 80 servers in5 there and I can't recall the last time one went down.n  H And I might note nary a peep regarding the true issue in this sub-threadF and that is continuing Sun hardware problems that you cleverly try to J deflect and never really answer.  If it was static discharge , we wouldn'tD still be hearing about it 18 months out.. you fellows would have kitF to come out and strap grounding straps everywhere.  You're guessing as2 to what your own server problems are , aren't you?  K And to further hightlight this as you seem to constantly gloss over things. B You trot out environmentals and yet your close friends at Gartner  have this to say:r  = 	Gartner Group's recommendations for Sun users who encounter v 	the chip problem:  8 	o Challenge Sun's claims of site environmental factors:7 		While poor operating conditions may contribute to theo6 		problem, a majority of the reliability issues aren't 		environmental in nature.    / 	It isn't about environmentals and you know it.-   	Spin on Andy!   				Rob1    o In article <39AF7E93.381CE77A@uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:e > Rob Young wrote: > r >> In article <39AE62FF.5D19D867@uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes: >> >> >L >> > As I said re-read the last paragraph and note the action the datacenter& >> > manager took and note the result. >> >O >> > What did he say, we were having problems we reduced the temperature in our C >> > datacenter and the problem went away, what does that tell you.c >> > >>L >> > So here is a question, do you know what causes the majority of hardware< >> > failures on all systems not just Sun's but all systems. >>K >>         Ummmmm... using the same crappy design as a Sun high-end server?TK >>         Just a guess.  Actually, you're probably after "heat."  I'll buy L >>         that.  Funny how much of this Sun hardware is surrounded by otherG >>         hardware that works fine.  Must be a tough sell to push thatpJ >>         "heat" angle in a 75 degree computer room where everything else" >>         is just fine.  Spin on! >> > B > Sorry wrong the biggest cause of hardware failure on all systemsF > not just Sun's is static discharge. Some studies have put it as high > as 70% of all failures.  > > > Now people who know what they are talking about will now sayA > well Rob was sort of right though he didn't realise why because*H > heat is a contributing factor to making static discharges more likely. > L > But it isn't the only cause, the kind of floor you have in your datacenterR > is a contributory factor and a whole host of other variables. Where the machinesY > are in a datacenter is also an issue, being on the row next to any of the main walkwaysN\ > for example particularly if you have the wrong flooring and other issues like low relativeL > humidity will expose those machines to a higher chance of failure than theN > machines in the same datacenter that are not next door to the main walkways. > N > Paradoxically Rob you may think that the publicity about Sun's Ecache issuesF > has caused a negative impact on Sun's image with its major customers > and for some this is true. > P > However a lot of customers have turned arround and said after their datacenterN > assessment that Sun was the first vendor who has ever explained to them whatO > the issues are and why they should take the actions we have recommended. FromtU > you posting it would appear that although you are unlikely to thank Sun for puttingyR > you in the picture you would at leat have learnt something that would be usefullN > to help you keep all the systems in your datacenter running without hardware > failures.  > P > Most customers seem to assume that if they keep systems within their operatingP > temperature ranges and humidity ranges they will be reliable, when in fact theQ > systems will be more reliable (from all vendors) if they are operated in a muchn/ > tighter range of temperatures and humidities.a > K > Your post reveals that you like the majority of customers were completelytQ > unaware of the fact that the majority of the hardware failures you have seen onvT > all the computer systems you have used have been caused by static, Sun's, Compaqs,L > Digital boxes etc. Why didn't you know, if you had known earlier would youS > (even with Compaqs etc) have taken more care of the environment that your systemsuR > run in ? would you for example have carpet tiles in you datacenter ? you may notR > but people do ? would you monitor the relative humidity of the envrionment ? youP > may but many people don't ? would you make sure that the sub-floor pressure is< > is correct ? that the sub-floor is clean ? etc etc etc etc > M > Your datacenter practice may well be exemplary in which case you don't needeN > to worry about these issues but the fact that you didn't appear to know whatM > the single most important cause of hardware failure is implies that if yourSN > datacenter is well managed it is not because people are aware of the issues,* > or they havn't communicated this to you. > 	 > Regardsv > Andrew Harrison  > Enterprise IT Architect- >  >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 17:22:59 +0100F  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persistH Message-ID: <OF712BD2F3.FF924891-ON8025694C.0059969B@qedi.quintiles.com>  ( Andrew dot nospam at youknowwhere wrote:J >>>As I said re-read the last paragraph and note the action the datacenter manager took and note5 the result.m  J What did he say, we were having problems we reduced the temperature in our datacenter and the+ problem went away, what does that tell you.d  G So here is a question, do you know what causes the majority of hardwareh failures on all systems  not just Sun's but all systems.   6 If you know the answer to this question then continue.  J Assuming you knew the answer to the first question, why would reducing the temperaturebH in the datacenter reduce the incidence of the major cause of failure for all computer hardware.<<<r  H I'd take the most common cause of failures as being things frying, givenI our present context.  Dropping the temperature of the datacenter by a few F degrees wouldn't usually drop the temperature of something frying to aK temperature where it wouldn't fry, so maybe that's an incorrect assumption?e  J So come on Andrew, tell us what, in your opinion, is the thing that causes1 the majority of hardware failures on all systems.   E (This of course rules out the problem of ham-fisted installations andAK operations people which is probably  a more realistic cause of the majoritytG of hardware issues, but that's only from slamming tape drawers down tooeG quickly, slamming cabinets shut too violently, forcing cards into cages-# when they're misaligned and so on).    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 16:26:48 +0100 B From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist* Message-ID: <39AFCAB7.B43460B3@uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:  " > Nice overview on environmentals! >rB > You go on about static discharge and yet it has a lot to do withI > humidity which you fail to mention.  So its static discharge... is that L > your ace in the hole?  Still doesn't explain why your employer is cluelessG > as to the cause.  You trot out static discharge as if that is what we F > are all suffering from.  The datacenter next to me has 80 servers in7 > there and I can't recall the last time one went down.a >s  A Rob re-read my posting in it I said static electricity is relateduD to relative humidity. The lower the relative humidity the higher theC static. The higher the temperature the lower the relative humidity.  But you knew this didn't you !!   = That is why I said that people who know what they are talking B about would hve given you a few points for saying that temperatureE is the cause of systems failures because if the temperature rises the J relative humidity falls and then the chances of static discharge increase.  N But as I said earlier it isn't the only cause of static there are many others.     >oJ > And I might note nary a peep regarding the true issue in this sub-threadG > and that is continuing Sun hardware problems that you cleverly try to L > deflect and never really answer.  If it was static discharge , we wouldn'tF > still be hearing about it 18 months out.. you fellows would have kitH > to come out and strap grounding straps everywhere.  You're guessing as4 > to what your own server problems are , aren't you? >   H If it was as simple as that then no systems would ever suffer for damageI by static and 70% of the systems failures that are caused by static wouldaJ not happen because all the computer vendors would have allready done this.  K Wander arround your Compaqs, do they have static straps or what ever devicenJ (they are I assume grounded). Remember Compaq will know as we do that mostH of the hardware failures that a system has will be caused by static. The" fact is that it isn't that simple.    C > You trot out environmentals and yet your close friends at Gartnere > have this to say:s >sE >         Gartner Group's recommendations for Sun users who encountero >         the chip problem:t >tA >         o Challenge Sun's claims of site environmental factors:eG >                 While poor operating conditions may contribute to theoF >                 problem, a majority of the reliability issues aren't* >                 environmental in nature. > 8 >         It isn't about environmentals and you know it. >a  D Sorry Rob but as I said re-read the origional article, read what theA datacenter manager who had done what Sun suggested said about thet	 outcomes.aL We suggested that they reduced their data center temperature buy 10 degrees,O they did the problem stopped happening. Now lowering the datacenter temperaturee5 is environmental unless I am very very much mistaken.s   Regardsh Andrew Harrisonn Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 16:31:09 +0100wB From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist* Message-ID: <39AFCBBD.1BF73FC3@uk.sun.com>  ! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:o   >oL > So come on Andrew, tell us what, in your opinion, is the thing that causes3 > the majority of hardware failures on all systems.r >s  ? Although I have allready responded to Rob on this the answer isrA static. You I assume knew this as well and you I assume are usingnE good datacenter practice to reduce the incidence of static discharge.o  > Remember this will help all the systems you have regardless of vendor.t   RegardsO Andrew Harrisone Enterprise IT Architectu   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2000 14:11:30 -0500t* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist+ Message-ID: <DBEVXql9pWI+@eisner.decus.org>0  o In article <39AFCAB7.B43460B3@uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:9 > Rob Young wrote: > # >> Nice overview on environmentals!U >>C >> You go on about static discharge and yet it has a lot to do withwJ >> humidity which you fail to mention.  So its static discharge... is thatM >> your ace in the hole?  Still doesn't explain why your employer is cluelesseH >> as to the cause.  You trot out static discharge as if that is what weG >> are all suffering from.  The datacenter next to me has 80 servers inr8 >> there and I can't recall the last time one went down. >> > C > Rob re-read my posting in it I said static electricity is relatedfF > to relative humidity. The lower the relative humidity the higher theE > static. The higher the temperature the lower the relative humidity.i! > But you knew this didn't you !!i > ? > That is why I said that people who know what they are talkingdD > about would hve given you a few points for saying that temperatureG > is the cause of systems failures because if the temperature rises theaL > relative humidity falls and then the chances of static discharge increase. > P > But as I said earlier it isn't the only cause of static there are many others. >  >  >>K >> And I might note nary a peep regarding the true issue in this sub-threadaH >> and that is continuing Sun hardware problems that you cleverly try toM >> deflect and never really answer.  If it was static discharge , we wouldn'ttG >> still be hearing about it 18 months out.. you fellows would have kitsI >> to come out and strap grounding straps everywhere.  You're guessing ase5 >> to what your own server problems are , aren't you?  >> > J > If it was as simple as that then no systems would ever suffer for damageK > by static and 70% of the systems failures that are caused by static would L > not happen because all the computer vendors would have allready done this. > M > Wander arround your Compaqs, do they have static straps or what ever device L > (they are I assume grounded). Remember Compaq will know as we do that mostJ > of the hardware failures that a system has will be caused by static. The$ > fact is that it isn't that simple. >  > D >> You trot out environmentals and yet your close friends at Gartner >> have this to say: >>F >>         Gartner Group's recommendations for Sun users who encounter >>         the chip problem: >>B >>         o Challenge Sun's claims of site environmental factors:H >>                 While poor operating conditions may contribute to theG >>                 problem, a majority of the reliability issues aren't + >>                 environmental in nature.s >>9 >>         It isn't about environmentals and you know it.t >> > F > Sorry Rob but as I said re-read the origional article, read what theC > datacenter manager who had done what Sun suggested said about thet > outcomes.eN > We suggested that they reduced their data center temperature buy 10 degrees,Q > they did the problem stopped happening. Now lowering the datacenter temperaturei7 > is environmental unless I am very very much mistaken.a >    	Nice try once again.o  ; 	For those of us that may be getting a bit turned around byl9 	your constant twisting and turning in the wind I need to  	recap:d  8 		1)  In December 1999 you claimed the CPU problems that= 		    Gartner wrote an advisory about were "old news" and Sun = 		    actually told them about them.  They were fixed.  Yeah!o  8 		2)  You now claim the [majority] of these problems are6 		    environmental in nature.  This is absolutely not: 		    the case as the Gartner folks are quick to point out4 		    and which you consistently seem to overlook in! 		    your very LAME refutations.e     	To recap for the masses:s  C 	1) and 2) above are clearly incorrect views.  They are clearly nott
 	the case.  : 	And yes we can read and yes we have re-read the articles.  % 	One data point does not a case make!s  9 	Little to do with environmentals.  I hang on the Gartnert6 	statement and I also trust these folks know about the 	environmental issues:    M My group runs a mid-size to large server farm at a (very) major ISP and we'retO constantly replacing processors that crash due to "Ecache Writeback Data ParityaN Errors." We were told that even replacing the processor isn't a remedy becauseL the new one is just as likely to eat itself as the old one if you left it in place (As far as they know.)  O In addition, the latest fix is a software patch that is supposed to massage theuN Ecache so that it never finds itself in the condition that they believe causesO the error. Remember, they're still guessing at this point. 18 months later. How K many of those 400Mhz are now used up with self-checks and Ecache scrubbing?   O Ever babysit a Sun E-anything on bootup? Not only does it cost the company tonseM of $$ in downtime (made more extreme by the long boot process), it also costs K them $$$$/hour for their engineers to sit there and watch these things POSTw forever.  M I think the most aggravating part is how for all intents and purposes, Sun islN now using the worlds largest enterprise sites as beta testers for it's productL just like M$ uses the world to test it's software except that Sun expects usK all to sign our voices away with the NDA so they don't look like a bunch ofn9 ..... (something bad that you wouldn't wanna be called)."   O I'm posting anonymously to protect my job and my employer. We have 3 E10000 andvG 7 E6000 systems in our production environment. All of them have had theeM problem. All of them have gone through multiple exchanges of CPUs, memory andeM system boards. We are seriously looking at switching hardware vendors at thisoN time. We are looking at RS6000s as a possible replacement, but it would take aI considerable amount of work to recompile all of our custom apps for theirlN environment. We also have about a dozen S-390 mainframes and have been lookingM at Linux under OS390 too.. Either way, I think we are going to be getting ridn of Sun.c    A 	It isn't about environmentals.  Sun still doesn't know the cause 9 	or they would rush to fix it.  Gartner knows this and isi= 	updating their advisory appropriately.  UE10000 is not a RASb4 	solution, PERIOD!  (Missing the R and the A!  HA!).   				Rob1   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 09:58:16 +0100* From: "Richard Brodie" <R.Brodie@rl.ac.uk>, Subject: Re: Terseness (was Re: DHCP server)+ Message-ID: <8onr39$v34@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk>U  @ "Roger Ivie" <rivie@server.newlogan.teraglobal> wrote in message7 news:slrn8qtbu4.abd.rivie@server.newlogan.teraglobal...   P > There's a famous story about an author who went on vacation while negotiationsM > were proceeding for the publication of his latest book. Wanting to know how L > they were going, he sent a telegram to his agent with the message "?". The* > agent's reply was a telegram saying "!".   Victor Hugo, Les Miserables.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 08:19:10 GMTt From: unknown@secret.com. Subject: The Perfect Government Auction Guide!& Message-ID: <01090004.2449@secret.com>  L The Best, Most Up-to-Date, Government Auctions Guide EVER + Special Bonus!!!   This is Simply ", The Best Guide Ever Put Together."  Totally up to date (no more 2 year old .txt files!).  Shows you Every Government/Surplus Auction - Federal, State, & International!  Shows you FREE online registration, Gov Auction Newsgroups, Mailing Lists, Locations, and Dates!  Also - Links to Many of these auctions online!!!  MANY of these items are sold NEW for next to nothing, and can be kept, or sold for MASSIVE PROFITS!  This Guide is amazing, and is TOTALLY up to Date!  This guide is Also very C   http://govauctions.8m.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 01 Sep 2000 22:17:56 +08005 From: Paul Repacholi <prep@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>a% Subject: Re: Ultra SCSI in VAX 4100A?f7 Message-ID: <rjq66ogkxgr.fsf@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>e  ' Jeremy Begg <jeremy@vsm.com.au> writes:o   > Hi,h > N > I have a VAX 4100A which currently has no internal devices.  I'd like to put > auN > couple of 9GB SCSI disks in, and someone has suggested Seagate Medalist Pro. > M > Looking at the Segate web site I notice that Barracuda drives are available  > in< > the Narrow (50pin) SCSI interface and are somewhat faster. > I > The Medalist Pro are described as SCSI-2 and the Barracuda as UlraSCSI.i > D > Can UltraSCSI drives be put into a VAX 4100A -- or won't it's SCSI > controller > cope?d  A What I have done with wide-fasts, is shove a DEC 50-wide into thehD moterboard header of my M600 alpha, and use a wide cable with 2 wide1 terminators to connect the drives. Works a treat.n  - It's getting hard to fine SCSI-2 narrows now.t   -- o< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.e@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 07:48:33 -0500% From: "David Ash" <jimjj@hotmail.com>t! Subject: VMS and 100 meg Ethernett/ Message-ID: <sqv9b8i3c5d179@news.supernews.com>d  K When I originally installed VMS 7.2 on my Alpha 600au it was plugged into aiK 10meg half duplex hub. Later when we moved the Alpha to a 100meg switch thecC system continued to work on the network but it didn't automaticallyaI autonegotiate its speed up to 100meg full duplex even after a reboot. CannK any of you tell me how to get the Alpha to run the Ethernet card at 100meg?  Thanks.d   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 08:17:52 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>u% Subject: Re: VMS and 100 meg Ethernet 8 Message-ID: <8ooa3f$8fl$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>  2 Assuming your NIC is 100mb capable, then try this.  	 $mc lancpa lancp>show deviceo   lets take EWA0 as our exampleo   lancp>set dev ewa0 /speed=100a2 lancp>set dev ewa0 /full      <--- for full duplex lancp>set dev ewa0 /perm  4 lancp>help    <--- in case I forgot something!   ;-)   Dave...t    0 "David Ash" <jimjj@hotmail.com> wrote in message) news:sqv9b8i3c5d179@news.supernews.com...fK > When I originally installed VMS 7.2 on my Alpha 600au it was plugged intos atI > 10meg half duplex hub. Later when we moved the Alpha to a 100meg switchs theoE > system continued to work on the network but it didn't automatically K > autonegotiate its speed up to 100meg full duplex even after a reboot. Can0E > any of you tell me how to get the Alpha to run the Ethernet card ate 100meg?t	 > Thanks.D >O >2   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 09:20:03 -0400 0 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty.NOSPAM@sas.com>% Subject: Re: VMS and 100 meg Etherneta2 Message-ID: <g6yvOWKZgtSVOOiul2Lf7mvbi+o+@4ax.com>   At the Alpha console:v   SET <NIC> AUTO-NEGOTIATE INIT  7 You can also type SET <NIC> to see the various settingso for that particular card.r  B On Fri, 1 Sep 2000 07:48:33 -0500, "David Ash" <jimjj@hotmail.com> wrote:  L >When I originally installed VMS 7.2 on my Alpha 600au it was plugged into aL >10meg half duplex hub. Later when we moved the Alpha to a 100meg switch theD >system continued to work on the network but it didn't automaticallyJ >autonegotiate its speed up to 100meg full duplex even after a reboot. CanL >any of you tell me how to get the Alpha to run the Ethernet card at 100meg? >Thanks. >x   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 08:39:04 -0500u" From: Earl Lakia <lakia@ipact.com>% Subject: Re: VMS and 100 meg Ethernetw) Message-ID: <39AFB177.E286967E@ipact.com>s  9 It is a console command.  Forgot what it was.  Check yourn documentation.   David Ash wrote:  M > When I originally installed VMS 7.2 on my Alpha 600au it was plugged into aeM > 10meg half duplex hub. Later when we moved the Alpha to a 100meg switch the E > system continued to work on the network but it didn't automaticallyrK > autonegotiate its speed up to 100meg full duplex even after a reboot. CannM > any of you tell me how to get the Alpha to run the Ethernet card at 100meg?-	 > Thanks.-   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 08:41:34 -0500 " From: Earl Lakia <lakia@ipact.com>% Subject: Re: VMS and 100 meg Ethernetb) Message-ID: <39AFB20E.2A5489E2@ipact.com>3   David Ash wrote:  M > When I originally installed VMS 7.2 on my Alpha 600au it was plugged into adM > 10meg half duplex hub. Later when we moved the Alpha to a 100meg switch the E > system continued to work on the network but it didn't automaticallyeK > autonegotiate its speed up to 100meg full duplex even after a reboot. CansM > any of you tell me how to get the Alpha to run the Ethernet card at 100meg?e	 > Thanks.e  	 > Thanks.r    >>> SET EWx0_MODE AUTO-NEGOTIATE or to force 100mB  >>> SET EWx0_MODE FAST  * $MCR LANCP SET DEV EWx/SPEED=AUTONEGOTIATE  2 Note "x" is the controller number for the DE500-AA   --
 Earl Lakia   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 14:57:03 GMTi/ From: Mike Price <mike.price@littlewoods.co.uk> % Subject: Re: VMS and 100 meg Ethernete) Message-ID: <8oog3j$m4q$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   B We have had loads of fun getting various hubs and switches to workC properly when the system are set up to autonegotiate. In the end it D seems to be better to determine exactly what they are supposed to beE set to and set then to that rather than depend on autonegotiate. i.e.nA keep the intelligence in humans and take it away from the NIC :-)e  " How to do it has been posted above    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 09:02:16 -0700a+ From: "Barry Treahy, Jr." <Treahy@mmaz.com>e% Subject: Re: VMS and 100 meg Ethernet ( Message-ID: <39AFD308.56C10BA7@mmaz.com>   Mike Price wrote:e  D > We have had loads of fun getting various hubs and switches to workE > properly when the system are set up to autonegotiate. In the end itfF > seems to be better to determine exactly what they are supposed to beG > set to and set then to that rather than depend on autonegotiate. i.e.qC > keep the intelligence in humans and take it away from the NIC :-)e  F Ditto! I can't say that I've been impressed with DEC's ability to haveI NIC's auto-negotiate as I had this same problem with an Alpha running DECsH Unix 3 years ago...  I haven't had problems with PeeCees running WindozeE of Linux auto-negotiating 10/100 cards, but DEC/Compaq, well it seemse3 that they still haven't got this one figured out...    Barryp --  ? Barry Treahy, Jr  *  Midwest Microwave  *  Vice President & CIOf  A E-mail: Treahy@mmaz.com * Phone: 480/314-1320 * FAX: 480/661-7028i   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 12:31:00 -05001 From: "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com>r% Subject: Re: VMS and 100 meg Ethernetn8 Message-ID: <8oooti$bad$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>   Beware auto-negotiate!!!  G We've been stung by that bee here too many times, especially with DE500uJ NICs.  That's why I recommended setting the speed and dup the way I did in an earlier note.   Dave...d  = "David Beatty" <David.Beatty.NOSPAM@sas.com> wrote in messager, news:g6yvOWKZgtSVOOiul2Lf7mvbi+o+@4ax.com... >c > At the Alpha console:  >r > SET <NIC> AUTO-NEGOTIATE > INIT > 9 > You can also type SET <NIC> to see the various settings1 > for that particular card.H >iD > On Fri, 1 Sep 2000 07:48:33 -0500, "David Ash" <jimjj@hotmail.com> > wrote: >sL > >When I originally installed VMS 7.2 on my Alpha 600au it was plugged into amJ > >10meg half duplex hub. Later when we moved the Alpha to a 100meg switch thetF > >system continued to work on the network but it didn't automaticallyL > >autonegotiate its speed up to 100meg full duplex even after a reboot. CanF > >any of you tell me how to get the Alpha to run the Ethernet card at 100meg?t
 > >Thanks. > >d >e   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2000 17:29:13 GMTo2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)% Subject: Re: VMS and 100 meg Ethernet-6 Message-ID: <8oop19$6hh$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  l In article <8ooa3f$8fl$1@fizban.fizban.pprd.abbott.com>, "Dave Gudewicz" <david.gudewicz@abbott.com> writes:5 :Assuming your NIC is 100mb capable, then try this...B  C   Also check the associated console environment variables, as thesekB   can be used to control how an Ethernet controller is configured.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 09:13:16 -0400% From: "Islandco" <sales@islandco.com> # Subject: VMS Support for 4D30T ????a/ Message-ID: <sqva3duec5d151@corp.supernews.com>n   Hi there  F Anyone know if there is a way to get the 4D30T working under VMS/Motif  ; if there is a patch , we would greatly appreciate the URL !i   Thanks   Davido       -- Island Computers US Corporationh 2700 Gregory Streete	 Suite 150  Savannah GA 31404e Tel: 912 447 6622e Fax: 912 201 0096i sales@islandco.com www.islandco.com  C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and J may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.H They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom theyK are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient,IG please notify Island Computers US Corp immediately and then delete this  message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copyinga of this message is prohibited.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 09:24:33 -0400w0 From: David Beatty <David.Beatty.NOSPAM@sas.com>' Subject: Re: VMS Support for 4D30T ????.2 Message-ID: <FK2vOYfiwtqhCh4iTTptJefl62UC@4ax.com>  5 What version of VMS?  There are patches available fort  Powerstorm graphics for versions V7.1-2, V7.2, and V7.2-1 atfC ftp.service.digital.com/public/vms/axp/{V7.1-2|V7.2|V7.2-1}/*graph*e  B On Fri, 1 Sep 2000 09:13:16 -0400, "Islandco" <sales@islandco.com> wrote:  	 >Hi theren >cG >Anyone know if there is a way to get the 4D30T working under VMS/Motifr >r< >if there is a patch , we would greatly appreciate the URL ! >  >Thanks  >  >David   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2000 17:59:17 +0200r* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)' Subject: Re: VMS Support for 4D30T ????'* Message-ID: <39afd255$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  W In article <sqva3duec5d151@corp.supernews.com>, "Islandco" <sales@islandco.com> writes:nG >Anyone know if there is a way to get the 4D30T working under VMS/Motifi >r< >if there is a patch , we would greatly appreciate the URL !  @ I so far never heard of a 4D30T, but that doesn't mean anything.B I heard of a 3D30 and 4D20 which will work with VMS (Open3D V4.9A)O I also heard of a 4D20T which gets support through GRAPH (or later UPDATE) ECO.>K And I heard of a 4D40T, 4D50T, 4D51T and 4D60T which will NOT work with VMS . My guess is, that 4D30T will not run with VMS.  8 But better wait for Fred to bring the definite answer...   -- i< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888p< FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netF <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------   Date: 1 Sep 2000 17:35:36 GMT 2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)' Subject: Re: VMS Support for 4D30T ????.6 Message-ID: <8oopd8$6hu$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  C :On Fri, 1 Sep 2000 09:13:16 -0400, "Islandco" <sales@islandco.com>  :wrote:yG :Anyone know if there is a way to get the 4D30T working under VMS/Motifn  F   Either write a driver for it, or replace it with a supported widget.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  / Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 08:22:24 +0200 (MET DST)i& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>  Subject: Re: WORD viewer for VMS6 Message-ID: <200009010619.IAA00603@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello (Andrew),i  J the problem was not a UNIX --> Windows problem. I am a fan of StarOfifice,E because it is not from M$. In case of this I did say, that there is aWG possibility to expoert to word. A colegue did test this at home without  any success.H The second problem is, that Sun is not willing to help non Solaris/LinuxD usern as I am. I find it ironical to say look at the UNIX Q&A if youF have a Windows problem. I am afraid, that this will also the answer ifF they will support the OpenVMS site. Be aware, that Sun will not sit onH a high horse and loosing the contact to the ground. I hope that Sun will not become a M$ successor.   Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 16:37:20 +0100t- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>h  Subject: Re: WORD viewer for VMS) Message-ID: <39AFCD30.861CD1BC@bbc.co.uk>i   David A Froble wrote:h  * > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: > >gH > > Its sad that the discussion has allready descended into the standardF > > discussion that OpenVMS people seem to have to convince themselves5 > > not to do something. Which can be paraphrased as.e > >sJ > > 1.    Its written in C or some other language that the poster dislikesJ > > 2.    It has been written by people who are actually using non OpenVMSM > >         boxes for this purpose so the code they wrote must be suspect and  > >m) > >         no one should bother with it.mJ > > 3.    Porting it would be stupid because it won't run well on OpenVMS.L > > 4.    It might not be possible to port because the origional programmers< > >         could be clueless so there is no point starting.F > > 5.    Its missing some piece of functionality not available on any > > existingJ > >         OpenVMS application which the poster feels should be in it and? > >         because of that there is no point contemplating it.eM > > 6.    A good programmer  using an OpenVMS box  should be able to knock ann > > equivalentC > >         up in a couple of months so there is no point starting.tG > > 7.    Doing the port might help someone else apart from the generaliD > >         OpenVMS community so hey we don't want to do that do we. >	4 > Yeah! ....  That's right! ....  So, your point is? >p  H  I dunno, maybe Andrew wants to be the group sectretary now, summarizing our collective ramblings.s  E Now, I wonder what unix developers would say when handed a nice chumkiK of VMS code with LIB$this, SYS$that, exe$something else calls in abundance.v: Perchance that the code was never designed to run on unix? --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uka  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.,   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 16:38:21 +01000- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>c  Subject: Re: WORD viewer for VMS) Message-ID: <39AFCD6D.E1209A72@bbc.co.uk>o   Rudolf Wingert wrote:o   > Hello, >nC > my mention of slow performance under OpenVMS is: it is political.tC > Many years ago, as TCP/IP was not an standard and less poeple didxH > speack about change to TCP/IP we bought the Sun DECnet implemantation.C > DECnet transfer was very slow (only half the speed of TCP/IP). SogF > the UNIX fans said DECnet is a slow duck. After years, TCP/IP was inC > every mouth, the new one DECnet implementation did have the same,oH > or a little bit better performance as TCP/IP. Nobody did realize this.D > TCP/IP was in front! This showed me, that the politic of Sun is to@ > implement a break in non Sun systems, so that every body says:. > DEcnet/OpenVMS is slow, Sun Solaris is fast. >r  G Now, where have I heard that story before? Ah, thats right, Word on theD Mac. --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukt  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofa MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 11:48:32 +0200a& From: Bob Marcan <bob.marcan@aster.si> Subject: Re: X windows( Message-ID: <39AF7B70.F198FB72@aster.si>   Richard Brodie wrote:r > a > "D.Webb" <david20@alpha2.mdx.ac.uk> wrote in message news:8ne82d$32o$1@aquila.news.mdx.ac.uk...o > I > > Unfortunately I am pretty sure that UCX still does not support XDMCP.  >  > And never will ;)f > A > > This despite continually asking for it since at least 1995 !!t > A > Various rumours have the support in some near future version ofs@ > TCP/IP services (possibly 5.1). I've managed to hack enough of/ > one together to keep me happy in the interim.    Yes, it is in 5.1 EAK.   --  A -----------------------------------------------------------------W@  Bob Marcan                         email:   bob.marcan@aster.si@  Aster                                tel:    +386 (61) 1894-329@  Nade Ovcakove 1                      fax:    +386 (61) 1894-201@  1000 Ljubljana, Slovenia                    http://www.aster.siA -----------------------------------------------------------------u   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.489 ************************