1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 06 Sep 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 499       Contents: Re: *.MDL, anyone?= Can't write to TCPIP 5.0A NFS share from UCX 4.1 ECO 8 client P Re: CETS2000 - Hands-On Interactive Registration starts 8/31/2000 High    Noon (P Re: CETS2000 - Hands-On Interactive Registration starts 8/31/2000High    Noon (CP Re: CETS2000 - Hands-On Interactive Registration starts 8/31/2000High    Noon (C Re: Clustering & multiple sites  Re: Clustering & multiple sites  Re: Clustering & multiple sites  Re: dcps RE: dcps+ Re: Example: DECdtm propagation over DECnet P Re: Incoming: PC164LX with 533Mhz CPU's - DON'T READ IF OUR POSTINGSOFFEND YOU !J Re: Jobs (was: Re: Replace licenses for VAXcluster for Education/Research?  Re: LPD printing to a Xerox265ST Re: mpeg_play 2.3 port Re: mpeg_play 2.3 port1 pathworks set file /perm - RPC server unavailable $ Re: Portable GUIs (VMS+Windows-NT) ?$ Re: Portable GUIs (VMS+Windows-NT) ?$ Re: Portable GUIs (VMS+Windows-NT) ?$ Re: Portable GUIs (VMS+Windows-NT) ? Re: Porting stuff. Re: Porting stuff./ Re: Porting stuff. was Re: Big AlphaServer Sale / Re: Porting stuff. was Re: Big AlphaServer Sale / Re: Porting stuff. was Re: Big AlphaServer Sale & Re: Q: DECwrite deccampus license paks RE: Reliable backups Reliable backups Re: Reliable backups; Re: Replace licenses for VAXcluster for Education/Research? " Re: set host node-name didn't work solution: printer queue ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist  Sun's Bitter Harvest Re: Sun's Bitter Harvest( Re: TCP/IP 5.0A PatchList or ECO Summary( Re: TCP/IP 5.0A PatchList or ECO Summary( Re: TCP/IP 5.0A PatchList or ECO Summary( Re: TCP/IP 5.0A PatchList or ECO Summary( Re: TCP/IP 5.0A PatchList or ECO Summary VMS learning ressources. Re: VMS learning ressources. RE: VMS learning ressources. Re: VMS learning ressources. Re: VMS learning ressources. VMS not starting Re: VMS not starting RE: VMS not starting Re: WORD viewer for VMS  Re: WORD viewer for VMS  Re: WORD viewer for VMS  Re: WORD viewer for VMS  Re: WORD viewer for VMS  Re: WORD viewer for VMS  Re: WORD viewer for VMS  Re: WORD viewer for VMS  Re: WORD viewer for VMS  Re: WORD viewer for VMS (OT) : Need Help !   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------    Date: 06 Sep 2000 16:51:29 +08005 From: Paul Repacholi <prep@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>  Subject: Re: *.MDL, anyone? 7 Message-ID: <rjqvgw9aooe.fsf@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>   # Beyonder <beyonder@vrx.net> writes:   ! > I thought "MDL" was "Muddle" ??    Nope, MARBLI Data Language.     MDL is sort of SDL version -1 ;)2 The sources of marbli were in the fische pond even4 in the 5.x issues. I don't think it has been used in. anger since SDL was running ( 3.something?? ).   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 18:28:24 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> F Subject: Can't write to TCPIP 5.0A NFS share from UCX 4.1 ECO 8 client) Message-ID: <39B67EB8.9596B874@bbc.co.uk>    Hi  G I have just setup an NFS share for writing on VMS 7.1 AXP, TCP/IP 5.0A. A I can write the share OK from VMS 7.1 AXP TCP/IP 5.0A no problem.    TCPIP 5.0A $ ucx sh mount/full _DNFS1000:[000000]      mounted      GWCODA:/scratch1/backup 3     Transport                   TCPIP-UDP   Writing  Enabled <     Read/write size             8192/8192   Write conversion Disabled5     RPC timeout             0 00:00:01.00   ADF usage  USE,UPDATE,CREATE 3     RPC retry limit                     0   Fileids  Unique2     Attribute time          0 00:00:15.00   Server type                   TCPIP<     Directory time          0 00:00:30.00   Advisory Locking Disabled8     Cache Validation          MODIFY TIME   Default user	 [DEFAULT] 3     Superuser                          No   Default  UID,GID               -2,-2   5 I can read the share OK from VMS 7.1 AXP UCX 4.1 ECO8 E When I attempt to write to the share from VMS 7.1 AXP UCX 4.1 EXO 8 I  get  the following error:  A -RMS-F-DEV, error in device name or inappropriate device type for 	 operation : %COPY-W-NOTCOPIED, DISK$USER1:[TIML]LOGIN.COM;8 not copied  ! UCX 4.1 ECO 8 $ ucx sh mount/full  _DNFS1001[000000]       mounted      GWCODA:/scratch1/backup 3     Transport                     UCX-UDP   Writing  Enabled <     Read/write size             8192/8192   Write conversion Disabled5     RPC timeout             0 00:00:01.00   ADF usage  USE,UPDATE,CREATE 3     RPC retry limit                     0   Fileids  Unique7     Attribute time          0 00:00:15.00   Server type  UCX <     Directory time          0 00:00:30.00   Advisory Locking Disabled8     Default UID,GID                 -2,-2   Default user [BACKUP])     Superuser                          No   G Is it to do with the UCX/TCPIP changes? I cannot believe TCP/IP 5.0 NFS  was > implemented so as not to interoperate with older 4.1 versions.  F DSN and WIS seem to be down so I thought I'd ask here before opening a
 support call. - Of course, VMS 7.1 is now prior version :-(.,    Regards    --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 15:19:21 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) Y Subject: Re: CETS2000 - Hands-On Interactive Registration starts 8/31/2000 High    Noon ( 0 Message-ID: <009EFB7C.C48E65BD@SendSpamHere.ORG>  Y In article <39B65849.A7F6DE64@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:  >  > ' >"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:  >  >> >>J >> A litany on Brittany I'm sure we can all do without.  I'd rather attendJ >> a conference which discusses the merits of silicon based computers than >> Silicone laced crooners.  >> > 9 >Thats Britney, not Brittany, which is an area in France.   E I merely copied it from the prior post.  I don't follow the career of E Miss Broccoli Spears, the Silicone buxom balladeering bimbo and thus, F the spelling of her name was assumed to be misspelled on purpose.  ForF example, there are folks that insist on misspelling 'Brian' with a 'y'. but we all know that is simply portentous.  ;)   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 15:44:25 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> Y Subject: Re: CETS2000 - Hands-On Interactive Registration starts 8/31/2000High    Noon (C ) Message-ID: <39B65849.A7F6DE64@bbc.co.uk>   & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:   >  > I > A litany on Brittany I'm sure we can all do without.  I'd rather attend I > a conference which discusses the merits of silicon based computers than  > Silicone laced crooners. >   8 Thats Britney, not Brittany, which is an area in France. --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 17:22:28 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> Y Subject: Re: CETS2000 - Hands-On Interactive Registration starts 8/31/2000High    Noon (C ) Message-ID: <39B66F44.24A62CEE@bbc.co.uk>   & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:   > ; > >Thats Britney, not Brittany, which is an area in France.  > G > I merely copied it from the prior post.  I don't follow the career of G > Miss Broccoli Spears, the Silicone buxom balladeering bimbo and thus, H > the spelling of her name was assumed to be misspelled on purpose.  ForH > example, there are folks that insist on misspelling 'Brian' with a 'y'0 > but we all know that is simply portentous.  ;)  R Fair enough, I guess I missed a smiley, and I wouldn't want to see anyone thinking> they might get some holiday tips at CETS be dissappointed :-). --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------    Date: 06 Sep 2000 16:45:56 +08005 From: Paul Repacholi <prep@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> ( Subject: Re: Clustering & multiple sites7 Message-ID: <rjq4s3tc3i3.fsf@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>   3 "Mathias Wolkert" <tias77@bellatlantic.com> writes:   > > Is there a way to check the latency in a cluster/shadow set?  > AMDS shows this for NISCS, but I don't know if this will cover@ your case. SCS should have it some where, as latency is the mainA consideration for path selection. So see if SHO/CLU as it for the  path in question.    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 15:41:05 +0200" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>( Subject: Re: Clustering & multiple sites( Message-ID: <8p5h58$eht$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  D Hmm, if you have a gigaswitch/FDDI (or ATM) don't throw it away yet.; It may be a big box but it does its job, and very well too. D Up to now you've managed to keep the distance(s) between the centresJ a secret. But if they are less than 20 kms (say 12 miles) apart, stay with5 FDDI and go for hipower optics and single mode fiber. B The Gigaswitch FDDI allows you to trunc connections (hunt groups).C It is very difficult to find anything that comes close (in terms of 
 bandwidth)F to a 4*2 hunt group running in full duplex mode: potentially 1.6 Gb/s.  
 Hans Vlems  7 tias77@bellatlantic.net heeft geschreven in bericht ... H >As we know the GIGA switches are old and really no fun, but what do you >replace them with? ? >What are the options besides using these rather clumsy fellas. 4 >Is it ethernet over darkfiber that is the deal now?E >Are there any numbers on how big disks you can shadow over a certain  >bandwith and so on? >Experience please! :) >/Tias   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 17:24:37 GMT  From: tias77@bellatlantic.net ( Subject: Re: Clustering & multiple sites. Message-ID: <srcveldiljn43@corp.supernews.com>  * Well, I'm not going to throw them out yet.I But I hope I don't have to install a new environment with those oldies... ? Right now I don't like em coz I don't know how to monitor them   efficiently.D I'm not sure of how they feel right now. I could take a look at the K console or implement something in my OpenView but... If it i coould run it  E over a bridged VLAN over Cisco Catalysts I would be a lot happier as  	 operator. 1 Is it efficient enough with 100Mbit in that case? < There are so many questions and so few test environments. :)   /Tias   D Hmm, if you have a gigaswitch/FDDI (or ATM) don't throw it away yet.; It may be a big box but it does its job, and very well too. D Up to now you've managed to keep the distance(s) between the centresF a secret. But if they are less than 20 kms (say 12 miles) apart, stay  with5 FDDI and go for hipower optics and single mode fiber. B The Gigaswitch FDDI allows you to trunc connections (hunt groups).C It is very difficult to find anything that comes close (in terms of 
 bandwidth)F to a 4*2 hunt group running in full duplex mode: potentially 1.6 Gb/s.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 11:52:39 +0100 , From: aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de (Hans M. Aus) Subject: Re: dcps D Message-ID: <aus-0609001152390001@wvia71.virologie.uni-wuerzburg.de>  6 In article <39B0281B.8AB79D49@aik.tec.sc.us>, "Ray T." <lists@aik.tec.sc.us> wrote: ... E > We are printing to HP4050tn's with DCPS 1.7 using ip_rawtcp with no G > problem, BUT...  I'm using no special options in DCPS.  We only print L > old DEC ANSI stuff and when we add the ANSI escape sequences for landscape/ > to what we send to DCPS, it prints landscape.  >  > Ray   8 Do you use any SoftFonts with the "old DEC ANSI stuff" ?  K Would you care to comment on the over all printing speed of the HP 4050tn ?   J Have you had the opportunity to compare the print time of the HP4050tn and	 the LN08?    --  B Cheers, Hans M. Aus, Wuerzburg, Germany,  aus@vim.uni-wuerzburg.de   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 13:28:03 GMT  From: rocoto@my-deja.com Subject: RE: dcps ) Message-ID: <8p5gob$dng$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   B In article <FE1835D68492D311BF7900508B5BEB0D0DE9AA@petra.WPI.EDU>,0   "Mitchell, David R." <mitchell@WPI.EDU> wrote:H > I can't comment on the specific problems others are having, but I will say H > that we have around sixty or so HP 4000's and 4050's in our productionG > environment that have been working fine using DCPS 1.7 ( and recently  1.8 ) D > and IP_RawTCP printing.  Several of the 4000's required a firmware updateG > from HP (free, if you can find a support person who knows what you're B > talking about - the firmware must be "19980714 MB3.68" or newer)  E Would you possibly mind posting a name & a phone # for such a person?   D I've had absolutely no luck with this since my printer is beyond itsG ridiculously short 1-year "warranty" period (I just acquired it about a H week ago expecting to be able to get it working with dcps). I was on theG phone 2 hours yesterday trying to get these people to cough up even the H part number for the firmware dimm...  (5090-3341 for an HP 4000 N fwiw).D It took quite some effort to even get a hold of their support peopleF without having to eat a $25 per-call 'service' fee. (I suppose so theyH could 'diagnose' my problem). Anyway, after all that, they want $146 for@ the privilege of having postscript firmware that actually works.  D To say I'm not a happy HP customer would be quite an understatement.   -- David     & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 01:51:15 -0700 5 From: Richard  <maher_rjNOmaSPAM@hotmail.com.invalid> 4 Subject: Re: Example: DECdtm propagation over DECnet9 Message-ID: <03023aa5.634800e9@usw-ex0108-062.remarq.com>    Hi,   3 I've had people asking me for the branch management 7 services documentation. Would it be possible to get the ! following documented for VMS 7.3?    $add_branchw $start_branchw $end_branchw  ; and to have the documentation updated to include all of the  parameters for $abort_transw.   : If not can customers get extracts from the functional spec7 (or something of similar detail) by contacting support?    Regards Richard Maher. 

* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 16:11:31 GMT % From: hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net> Y Subject: Re: Incoming: PC164LX with 533Mhz CPU's - DON'T READ IF OUR POSTINGSOFFEND YOU ! 0 Message-ID: <39B66CC3.729364FF@bellatlantic.net>  D They require a 300watt ATX power supply with an on/off switch and a F modification to the board to compensate for the lack of a hard on/off D like DEC used for a bunch of stuff - there is just a minor solderingD needed OR you can wire up your own on/off instead of the jumper - I E did not do this and do not recommend it for safety reasons.  Just get  a supply with an AC on off. C The angle of the power connector is tight if you get a baby ATX box % or if the PS is close to the board...  I bought a large tower case.D The case has to allow the connectors to be available - they are not G exactly the same as an ATX PC, so you have to modify the standard box aP bit.  D I ran mine up with NetBSD, IDE drive, S3Virge VGA, and it works like LIGHTENING!! bobt       Island Computers wrote:  >  > YepH > # > These need the funky power supply/ > 4 > See why we aren't selling them on the web site!?!? >  > Davidn > ? > "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote in messagee2 > news:oVgt5.858$M62.355107@typhoon.aracnet.com...0 > > Island Computers <sales@islandco.com> wrote:I > > > We have a load of PC164LX (VMS compatible) motherboards with 533mhz' > 21164  > > > chipsF > >YC > > > These are NOT the crippled SX cards that only support Windozen > >a > > > Price is $400 for the set2* > > > No chassis or memory etc is included" > > > JUST the CPU and motherboard > >sF > > What does it take to get one of these up and running as an OpenVMS
 > HobbyistL > > system?  Knowing that people may be more interested, or less.  Basically > I'm?N > > wondering if these are the boards that require a funky powersupply, and if( > > they need a special disk controller. > >a > > Zane > >e   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2000 16:19:37 GMTc2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)S Subject: Re: Jobs (was: Re: Replace licenses for VAXcluster for Education/Research?r6 Message-ID: <8p5qqp$9ib$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  Y In article <39B65C05.FA18A68F@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:a :a :p :SysAdmin wrote: :  :> Hoff Hoffman wrote: :> >^ :> > In article <39B4452F.44BC0A5F@usfamily.net>, Keith Brown <kbrown780@usfamily.net> writes:D :> > :There are some good VMS jobs out there and there are companies' :> > :that are not trying to ditch VMS.e :> >D :> >   Shameless plug alert: Compaq OpenVMS Engineering is hiring... :>+ :> Can the job postings be found somewhere?M :e :Goto www.compaq.com     A more direct link:.     http://www.compaq.com/jobs/e  1 :...not that I am interested in moving to Nashua.e1 :There are no non-US jobs there that I could see.   B   We have folks working for OpenVMS Engineering that are based in A   Colorado, Finland, Florida, Texas, and various other locations.   A   As for folks working here at the Nashua NH site, we have folks eB   living in large metropolitan areas (eg: Boston, MA) and we have ?   other folks living in small rural areas (eg: New Boston, NH).-?   And of course, we have folks living and working in Nashua NH.r  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 12:24:57 GMTI From: e__zy@my-deja.coms) Subject: Re: LPD printing to a Xerox265STm) Message-ID: <8p5d28$9e0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>5  . In article <39AF6633.32C45C9C@CCAgroup.co.uk>,5   Chris Sharman <Chris.Sharman@CCAgroup.co.uk> wrote:l > e__zy@my-deja.com wrote:4 > > I'm in desperate need of help...We are currently2 > > running VMS 6.2 (w/ UCX 4.2 ECO 4) on an Alpha0 > > 4100 platform and I am experiencing problems1 > > setting up VMS to print to a Xerox Docucenter-4 > > 265ST printer.  I am using telnet printing under5 > > UCX printing to various HP jetdirects without anyc3 > > problems.  However, this damn Xerox has left mef. > > scratching my head!  We are not having any2 > > problems printing to it under NT 4.0...but the > > VMS setup is escaping me.  >,( > I presume you do mean lpd, not telnet.= > Configure lpd on with @ucx$config from system; then use mcr = > ucx$lprsetup. You can define queues directly with a editor,cD > but the lprsetup program maintains the startup & shutdown files as well > as the printcap file.  > & > Here's our Xerox Splash queue, fwiw.G > If after you've done all that you're still having problems, I suggestT > you post more details. >  > Chris  > 
 > SPLASH:\. >         :lf=/clu_common/UCX_LPD/SPLASH.LOG:\ >         :lp=SPLASH:\ >         :rm=splash:\ >         :rp=splash_server:\:! >         :sd=/disk$black/SPLASH:  >     C I've done all of that.  LPD is correctly configured under UCX and IeD have been through the ucx$lprsetup many times.  I have never had anyG problems with the dozens of telnet printers (HP JetDirect enabled) thattD print flawlessly from VMS.  However, this Xerox on the other hand...E Anyways, with the Xerox docucenter product line they require that the B queue name by LP.  For example when I set up the Xerox under NT, aG configure the NT printing port to LPR with the Print Queue name of 'LP'0> and the Server name as the Ip address of the printer's network
 interface.  G I guess basically, how would I duplicate the same setup using lpd under8 VMS?   Thanks!r   Jimi    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2000 10:13:24 +0200e* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: mpeg_play 2.3 port * Message-ID: <39b5fca4$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  a In article <8p3mmv$4v7@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:uL >I have completed a port of MPEG_PLAY 2.3 using Compaq C V6.2-007 on OpenVMS* >Alpha V7.2-1.  If anybody wants it, see:  > C >   http://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/pub/SOFTWARE/MPEGPLAY_2_3_VMS.ZIPI >eI >I had to do this because the current Berkeley mpeg_encode (on Linux) wasfP >producing MPG files which neither the previous VMS mpeg_play version nor xanim L >could process correctly.  These also cause Xanim on Linux to dump core but . >they work ok with the Windows media player.)   J I have a MPEG_PLAY 2.3 installed since 25-Oct-1996. I got it from WKU.EDU.< So, I do not understand your announcement. What did I miss ?   -- -< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888C< FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netF <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2000 15:30:54 GMTe2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) Subject: Re: mpeg_play 2.3 portl, Message-ID: <8p5nve$49t@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  W In article <39b5fca4$1@news.kapsch.co.at>, eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) writes:db >In article <8p3mmv$4v7@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:M >>I have completed a port of MPEG_PLAY 2.3 using Compaq C V6.2-007 on OpenVMS,+ >>Alpha V7.2-1.  If anybody wants it, see: B >>  D >>   http://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/pub/SOFTWARE/MPEGPLAY_2_3_VMS.ZIP >>J >>I had to do this because the current Berkeley mpeg_encode (on Linux) wasQ >>producing MPG files which neither the previous VMS mpeg_play version nor xanim eM >>could process correctly.  These also cause Xanim on Linux to dump core but 0/ >>they work ok with the Windows media player.) k > K >I have a MPEG_PLAY 2.3 installed since 25-Oct-1996. I got it from WKU.EDU.h= >So, I do not understand your announcement. What did I miss ?i  I Nothing - I looked around and couldn't find anything newer than the older B version I had from WKU.  But I couldn't get to WKU for some reasonI yesterday so I just did the port again. (It only took about 30 minutes.) r   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduF? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech t   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 10:42:32 +0200> From: "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr>: Subject: pathworks set file /perm - RPC server unavailable2 Message-ID: <8p505t$1vp$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net>   Bonjour   tous1  8 I need to protect a complete directory tree for usage by a Pathworks user.T   Using the command $admin/pathsG > set file \my_share\my_dir\ my_user /perm=full/apply_to=(subdir,files)b  ; when the number of files in the directory is large, I get :T  ? %PWRK-E-ERRSETFILEACC, error setting access information for ...e4 -LM-E-RPC_S_SERVER_UN, The RPC server is unavailable  ? at this point, I'm not able to do a set file without the error,n1 until I exit pathworks and reissue admin/path ...a  
 Any idea ?   Cordialement
 Jean-Franoisx   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 09:21:17 +0100 $ From: Andy Burns <andy@burns.uk.net>- Subject: Re: Portable GUIs (VMS+Windows-NT) ? 8 Message-ID: <nevbrsk6p43gsqpqh7fj72g6cj9p1guaqm@4ax.com>   Martin Vorlaender wrote:  7 >David J. Dachtera (djesys.nospam@earthlink.net) wrote:t  B >: Try to find another that does smooth-scroll when you absolutely >: postively *MUST* have it. >HG >I know KEA! has that one, but never looked at it. I wonder under whichsA >circumstances one would need to (absolutely positively) have it.-  - When you want to confuse your eyes/brain ... 8  H Stare at some large program listing or log file scroll smoothly past forJ about ten minutes, then look away from the terminal and watch as the whole8 world keeps scrolling downwards then jerking back up ;-)     --  
 Andy Burns   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 19:09:08 +0010C% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au - Subject: Re: Portable GUIs (VMS+Windows-NT) ?t5 Message-ID: <01JTV3KSB5OI003UYU@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>s   Martin Vorlaender wrote:7 >David J. Dachtera (djesys.nospam@earthlink.net) wrote: K >: Um, Reflection is the *ONLY* complete VT emulation on the market, AFAIK.  >lF >I beg to differ on that "*ONLY*". KEA! (nee KEAterm) also does a good >job at VT emulation.- >eB >: Try to find another that does smooth-scroll when you absolutely >: postively *MUST* have it. >mG >I know KEA! has that one, but never looked at it. I wonder under which A >circumstances one would need to (absolutely positively) have it.s  K I've lost track of the original post, but on this issue of "competence" of t
 emulation:  L Some of the programs I'm involved in provide graphics for eigenvalue/vector  plots.  N I have written these graphics packages using GKS$ bindings, i.e., the Digital  variant.  L I write code and test on a normal DECterm using either the GKS logical that . points to a window or the terminal, either/or.  O My colleagues on Windows type emulators use Reflections, eXcursions, eXceed or nE Keaterm, some variants use windows and some just emulate the DECterm.b  O None of these are satisfactory, i.e., they do not reproduce what I program for  & on a DECterm.  The nearest is KEATERM.  P In my experience with graphics (this particular package -- GKS), KEATERM is the - only one that emulates a DECterm's behaviour.d   Regards, Paddy   Paddy O'Brien, Transmission Development,w
 TransGrid, PO Box A1000, Sydney South,  NSW 2000, Australia    Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050& Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  M Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people,c; but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.w   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 12:51:09 -0400% From: "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian>e- Subject: Re: Portable GUIs (VMS+Windows-NT) ?i$ Message-ID: <39b6759c$1@news.si.com>  L >In my experience with graphics (this particular package -- GKS), KEATERM is thee. >only one that emulates a DECterm's behaviour.  I I can't imagine why ANY X Window server (like eXceed or Kea!) won't work,f9 because they ARE DECterms.  They DON'T just emulate them.n --A Brian Tillman                   Internet: tillman_brian at si.comaA Smiths Industries, Inc.                   tillman at swdev.si.com = 3290 Patterson Ave. SE, MS      Addresses modified to prevent'< Grand Rapids, MI 49512-1991     SPAM.  Replace "at" with "@"8        This opinion doesn't represent that of my company   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2000 14:44:05 -0500 2 From: malmberg@eisner.decus.org (John E. Malmberg)- Subject: Re: Portable GUIs (VMS+Windows-NT) ?y+ Message-ID: <e00fgbN76ySg@eisner.decus.org>t  J Keep in mind that the REGIS terminal emulators are attempting to emulate aN VT340 graphics display, and that is slightly different than a DECterm display.  N While they are close, there are subtle differences that will show up between a real VT340 and a DECterm.e  K If you suspect a Terminal emulator is not working properly, you must reallylC compare it to a real VT340 or what ever the current replacement is.h    L In article <39b6759c$1@news.si.com>, "Brian Tillman" <tillman_brian> writes: > K > I can't imagine why ANY X Window server (like eXceed or Kea!) won't work,s; > because they ARE DECterms.  They DON'T just emulate them.l  M The behavior of graphics rendering depends on the screen size, display colors?N available, and the fonts available.  And there may be some differences betweenH X-11 server vendors in the interpretation of some of the specifications.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network s   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2000 11:45:57 -0500-2 From: malmberg@eisner.decus.org (John E. Malmberg) Subject: Re: Porting stuff.-+ Message-ID: <Tzpzwvb+gqXv@eisner.decus.org>5  0 In article <00090610235353@beast.dtsw.army.mil>,  jamese@beast.dtsw.army.military = (Ed James, 410-295-1919, ed.james@telecomsys.company) writes: / > "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.network> wroter( >   on Wed, 6 Sep 2000 07:56:35 -0500 in& > <srcfirecljn102@corp.supernews.com>: > L >> gzip does not know about file types, so using it on anything other than aC >> STREAM or FIXed file may result in a loss of record information.r >> e; >> This is a known limitation that is inherent in the tool.o >> rI >> You need to use VMSTAR to with the preserve attributes first on a file48 >> before you pack most type of files in a gzip archive. > L > My version of vmstar (3.3.9) does not have a file attribute saver option.  > Is this a new addition?i  O You got me.  I was thinking of the info-zip port and confusing the two, since Ip3 only use GZIP and VMSTAR to extract things usually.   tI Using ZIP or info-ZIP would be a preferred option for use between two VMS  systems.   -Johnh wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2000 15:39:17 GMTe2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) Subject: Re: Porting stuff.c, Message-ID: <8p5of5$49t@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  ` In article <Tzpzwvb+gqXv@eisner.decus.org>, malmberg@eisner.decus.org (John E. Malmberg) writes: > J >Using ZIP or info-ZIP would be a preferred option for use between two VMS	 >systems.. >   K Actually BACKUP save sets work pretty well for that too - they just aren't -H at all portable to other systems.  But then, neither are ZIP files that  retain VMS file attributes.h  K Admittedly you do have to muck about slightly to move them via FTP.  After sL a binary transfer I DUMP the first block so that I can read the record size I on the save set and then use a SET FILE to repair that value.  After thatb* BACKUP will work normally on the save set.   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech a   ------------------------------    Date: 06 Sep 2000 16:31:07 +08005 From: Paul Repacholi <prep@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>m8 Subject: Re: Porting stuff. was Re: Big AlphaServer Sale7 Message-ID: <rjq8zt5c46s.fsf@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>e  4 malmberg@eisner.decus.org (John E. Malmberg) writes:  < > In article <rjq4s3u98h9.fsf_-_@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>,: > .Paul Repacholi <prep@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> writes: > >  gK > > A real help thoutgh, would be some unix code that gave DCL+lib$findfileU  > > type functionality in a box. > > H > > Gzip currently uses getopt to untangle its comand line. This expandsJ > > *ALL* the files for a wild card. It's painfull to see on a manyK filesM > > dirctory. This is the next part of the overhaul, plus per file threading.s >  > Is this a recent change? > I > The GZIP version I know of produce one output file for each input file.i" > So wildcards are of limited use. > D > The GNU getopt routine for VMS does not do any wildcard expansion.# > In UN*X, that is the shell's job.u  F Ah, I was refering to GNU getopt. This does, on VMS, expand wildcards.C Into a huge list, just like the shell does... The code then gets toe* do the unix thing with the resulting mess.  ? There is also a latent bug in gzip, but it only bites on TPC'edu4 BRU savesets, so it's not been high on the hit list.   -- H< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.a@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 07:56:35 -0500) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> 8 Subject: Re: Porting stuff. was Re: Big AlphaServer Sale/ Message-ID: <srcfirecljn102@corp.supernews.com>h  B "Paul Repacholi" <prep#morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> wrote in message1 news:rjq8zt5c46s.fsf@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au... ? > malmberg@eisner.decus.organization (John E. Malmberg) writes:  > F > > The GNU getopt routine for VMS does not do any wildcard expansion.% > > In UN*X, that is the shell's job.e >yH > Ah, I was refering to GNU getopt. This does, on VMS, expand wildcards.E > Into a huge list, just like the shell does... The code then gets to , > do the unix thing with the resulting mess.  J The GNU getopt source that I last downloaded did not have any VMS specificG calls in it, and I can find no calls to opendir()/readdir() to manuallye$ expand wildcard file specifications.  J Also note that the gzip program contains a GNU getopt() that is of a lowerI revision than is shipping with the LIBERTY library.  The LIBERTY getopt().H also did not contain any VMS specific calls in it or opendir()/readdir() either.r  K Do you have a FTP location that I can download a more current source?  Thisi sounds like a recent change.  K The gzip that I have is version 1.2.4, earlier versions can not gunzip somehH LINUX sources.  I added the wildcard processing to the version at my ftp+ site, for no reason other than I could. :-)d  A > There is also a latent bug in gzip, but it only bites on TPC'ed 6 > BRU savesets, so it's not been high on the hit list.  I gzip does not know about file types, so using it on anything other than a @ STREAM or FIXed file may result in a loss of record information.  8 This is a known limitation that is inherent in the tool.  F You need to use VMSTAR to with the preserve attributes first on a file5 before you pack most type of files in a gzip archive.t   -Johnn wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 10:23:53 -0400wR From: jamese@beast.dtsw.army.mil (Ed James, 410-295-1919, ed.james@telecomsys.com)8 Subject: Re: Porting stuff. was Re: Big AlphaServer Sale0 Message-ID: <00090610235353@beast.dtsw.army.mil>  N "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> wrote on Wed, 6 Sep 2000 07:56:35 -0500 in$ <srcfirecljn102@corp.supernews.com>:  K > gzip does not know about file types, so using it on anything other than amB > STREAM or FIXed file may result in a loss of record information. > : > This is a known limitation that is inherent in the tool. > H > You need to use VMSTAR to with the preserve attributes first on a file7 > before you pack most type of files in a gzip archive.   J My version of vmstar (3.3.9) does not have a file attribute saver option.  Is this a new addition?u  G Why not use ZIP? It will save the file attributes and compress the datauD at the same time, producing a container file smaller than with gzip.  : Ed James                           ed.james@telecomsys.com5 TeleCommunications Systems, Inc.   voice 410-295-1919 5 2024 West Street, Suite 300        fax   410-280-1094o Annapolis, MD 21401-3556   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 11:49:05 -0500e/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>m/ Subject: Re: Q: DECwrite deccampus license paks O Message-ID: <7389DF776926AF6E.92ED0EAD95957837.05AE156CC53DAA62@lp.airnews.net>u   Hoff Hoffman wrote:e > O > In article <8p3o8c$jcg$1@server.garr.net>, sysmgr@lnHUH?gs.infn.it () writes:A; > :When the unprivileged user uses decwrite a message tells A > :that a valid decwrite license is not registered, then decwrite:, > :will run in a demo mode... what it wants? > ? >   DECwrite typically wants to see the "DECwrite" license PAK.e  D Actually, my copy of DECwrite uses DECWRITE-USER, but that is on the% VAX.  Perhaps the Alpha is different?t  B Wasn't there something about DECwrite needing to be installed with; CMKRNL on OpenVMS V7.1 for the licensing to work correctly?u  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------w$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 10:19:52 +0200h6 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vandijk@getronics.nl> Subject: RE: Reliable backupstM Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B51187E527@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>-  
 Hi Antony,  0 What kind of backupsolution did you have before?9 You have databases which need a special backup procedure?s  J If your vendor is pushing he should also give you a good backup solution. J He knows your core bussiness and know what kind of solutions are possible.  J If you have all the disk mirrored, then the ideal theoretical solution is L get one disk member out of the mirror set and make imagebackup of the those  readonline members..  ; You can't know if the backup is reliable unless if test it.nX That means test if you are enable to restore the whole system with only you backuptapes   and your restore documentation.      -- Jeroen M.W. van Dijk  Getronics Business Continuity BV8 Error #152 - Windows not found: (C)heer (P)arty (D)ance.             -----Original Message-----> From: Antony Wardle [mailto:antony.wardle@nnnoospam.met.co.nz]$ Sent: woensdag 6 september 2000 6:58 To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come Subject: Reliable backupsw        @ A vendor is pushing us away from host based shadowing, and doing: hardware mirroring. How do you then get a good backup withL no downtime involved. (ie not kicking off the users and stopping everything)  : they though that you could do controller snapshot backups.D How would you then be able to to retrieve a single file of a backup?  G We have no downtime window, and I guess that we are not the only people  in this situation.   How are other people doing it?  
 Cheers Antony3   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 07:20:25 -040042 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com> Subject: Reliable backupsl7 Message-ID: <200009060720_MC2-B259-4010@compuserve.com>t  J         I'm not certain that there is any way to get a reliable backup wi= thF zero downtime!  As long as you have files open for write, you can't be7 certain that you have a consistent view of those files./  F         I believe that DEC RAID controllers have a "CLONE" command, orJ something similar that lets you make a copy of a mirror set, which you ca= nSF then mount and back up in the normal manner.  I've never done it.  You( would still have that open file problem.  J         Even when using shadow sets, the only guaranteed way is to dismou= ntJ the shadow set (all buffers flushed, all files closed) and remount it les= sn" one member which you then back up.J It's not zero downtime but the best you can do if you insist on a reliabl= eo backup.r  J         If you can't dismount the shadow or mirror set, you must accept t= heB fact that your backups are a little less than completely reliable.  =    ' Message text written by "Antony Wardle"qA >A vendor is pushing us away from host based shadowing, and doing-: hardware mirroring. How do you then get a good backup with@ no downtime involved. (ie not kicking off the users and stopping everything)r  : they though that you could do controller snapshot backups.D How would you then be able to to retrieve a single file of a backup?  G We have no downtime window, and I guess that we are not the only people  in this situation.   How are other people doing it? <r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 17:02:36 +0000e- From: SysAdmin <djesys.nospam@fsi.net.mapson>C Subject: Re: Reliable backupst. Message-ID: <39B678AC.3709FF98@fsi.net.mapson>   Antony Wardle wrote: > B > A vendor is pushing us away from host based shadowing, and doing< > hardware mirroring. How do you then get a good backup withN > no downtime involved. (ie not kicking off the users and stopping everything) > < > they though that you could do controller snapshot backups.F > How would you then be able to to retrieve a single file of a backup? > I > We have no downtime window, and I guess that we are not the only people( > in this situation. >   > How are other people doing it? >  > Cheers Antonyc  ? The HSZ controllers can be commanded from a batch job using the E (currently unsupported) SET HOST/SCSI command and the HSZTERM$SCSIPADuA program which facilitates it. You can sometime find this on oldern	 CONDISTs.o  C HSZTERM accepts input from image data in a .COM file. Some creativer. hackery can yield a highly automated solution.  ? The HSJ controllers can be commanded from a batch job using thel? unsupported (unsupportable?) freeware HSDSA_SCRIPT program fromnF Digi/paq. I'm not sure if it's available on the Q's freeware site, but* you can find it for both VAX and Alpha at:  # http://www.djesys.com/freeware/vms/M  " I don't yet have a link to it from' http://www.djesys.com/vms/freeware.htmlt  E HSDSA is a PASCAL pgrogram that appears to not have been written by aoD VMS-literate coder. You may be best off to get the HSDSA.ZIP archiveB from the above link and pay close attention to the README that you should find therein.  C HSDSA does *NOT* accept input from image data. As I said, the coderoD appears to not have been VMS-literate. Still, I hacked up a BUNCH ofA automation around it almost two years ago, and that code is stilluB running today at a former site as part of their backup automation.  H In either case, you *WILL* still need to "quiesce" your application (getH it to close its files) and turn off write-back cache on the units beforeG you split members off of mirror sets. Remember to turn write-back cacheS6 back on after you split each (group of) mirror-set(s).  C This is about as close as you can come to "ensuring" a good backup,s AFAIK. d  6 ...but then, same holds true of splitting shadow-sets.   David J. Dachterae   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 16:00:21 +0100s- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> D Subject: Re: Replace licenses for VAXcluster for Education/Research?) Message-ID: <39B65C05.FA18A68F@bbc.co.uk>m   SysAdmin wrote:r   > Hoff Hoffman wrote:a > > ] > > In article <39B4452F.44BC0A5F@usfamily.net>, Keith Brown <kbrown780@usfamily.net> writes:aC > > :There are some good VMS jobs out there and there are companiesy& > > :that are not trying to ditch VMS. > >+C > >   Shameless plug alert: Compaq OpenVMS Engineering is hiring...s >o* > Can the job postings be found somewhere?   Goto www.compaq.comk  9 Click on the Jobs link in the top right hand of the page.e  @ Enter your search criteria (eg category engineering keyword VMS)  F thanks to John M for pointing this out to me, not that I am interestedE in moving to Nashua. There are no non-US jobs there that I could see..  -- 6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uke  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofy MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 16:36:53 +0000o- From: SysAdmin <djesys.nospam@fsi.net.mapson>i+ Subject: Re: set host node-name didn't workE. Message-ID: <39B672A5.F1731452@fsi.net.mapson>   Williams News wrote: > 7 > "Markus Eymann" <eymannm@bluewin.ch> wrote in messagee* > news:8p2lap$pqn$1@bw107zhb.bluewin.ch... > > Hi,- > >-1 > > if I try a set host node-name it didn't work.g> > > I get the answer "remote host is currently not reachable". > > Can anybody help me?/ > > please send your hint to eymannm@bluewin.chi > >d > > thank'sI
 > > markus > >o > >e > L > The guys are being a little harsh, but you did leave your self   'W I D E'= > open for it. I think a little more information is in order.e >  > For Instance:l, > what is the version of VMS on both systemsM > what is the protocol and the version of that protocol that you are using onl > both systems >         Decnet >         Decnet-Plusl >         Dec TCP/IP >         DEC UCXn >         Third party Protocol
 >         LATiD > How are the protocols configured (Decnet address's and IP Address)3 > can both systems see other objects on the networkD > what kind of network > N > perhaps you can redeem your self by providing some useful information. There3 > are 5,245 reasons why you might get that message.  > I > just a note: the most common problem with "remote host is currently nottM > reachable" that I have seen is that node names are not define in the DECnet-, > database and/or the TCP/IP hosts database.  3 Um, no, that would return "remote node is unknown".:  H "not reachable" usually means exactly what it says - there is no network path to the node being sought.  H Better take this one up with your net gurus. Be prepared to discover howF little they actually know about networking and specifically about YOURG network, and that they know even less about anything other than TCP/IP.o   David J. Dachtera    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 10:03:46 +0200n% From: David Romero <romerod@gedas.es>i  Subject: solution: printer queue( Message-ID: <39B5FA62.2F0BE59E@gedas.es>   Hi,e  B Some days ago I posted a question about a problem with the printer queue:  G ....jobs are retained on error with the message LOGICAL NAME NOT FOUND,v0 in an Alphaserver 1200 with OpenVms 7.2.1.......      I found the solution:  : the logical name I needed is: TCPIP$INET_HOST = <nodename>    G Also, I can afirm that you can use de IP_address in rm: when you defineM  printers with TPCIP$LPRSETUP.EXE       David  e-mail:romerod@gedas.ese     Thanks to everbody.w   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 09:08:39 +0100-B From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist* Message-ID: <39B5FB87.57F1B68F@uk.sun.com>   Rob Young wrote:  j > In article <8p2ab6$oas52$1@fido.engr.sgi.com>, woodacre@scala.reading.sgi.com (Michael Woodacre) writes: >oK > > For an apples to apples comparison, Origin2000 at 32P (which is the max / > > Wildfire  system size?), the ratio is 1:2.4r > > Q > > Also remember that this comparison is between a 4 year old Origin2000 and theZR > > latest hardware from Compaq. The Origin3000 latencies are much better than the9 > > Origin2000 both in absolute terms and scaling ratios.  > >PQ > > So I'd suggest a better comparison of latencies would be between Wildfire andaP > > the Origin3000 which both started shipping within a couple of months of eachG > > other. Are there any public latency numbers for Wildfire available?  > >sP > > For lots more details on Origin3000 please refer to John Masheys recent post > > on comp.arch >7 >8N >         But you have a point.  Where is the much vaunted differential, etc.? >uH >         Gotta understand that everyone is probably selling futures andI >         there are two criteria here to consider.  Performance and price E >         performance.  Saranspaghetti and others musn't have cut it.e >h  : I don't think I have seen any estimates for Sun Seringetti8 performance posted to this newsgroup. The only estimates7 for future system performance posted to this group seemz< to come from you. In fact you go in blithely in your posting: to do exactly what you accuse other people of doing namely selling futures.  : When is Marvel going to ship in systems, lets see what the9 latency of its memory subsystem is then shall we. You are 8 doing exactly what has got you into trouble in the past.  < Havn't you learnt anything from your Spiralog, Galaxy, 212649 WildFire pre-announcements. I would have thought that you.A would have realised by now that gettting the Rob seal of approval D is the kiss of death for most major Alphaserver products. Its almost* as if you are some sort of bad luck totem.   >tE >         From what I can determine the Marvel latency is much better K >         as CPU is directly attached to "slow" RAMBUS (RDRAM) memory.  ButeM >         because it is direct and has an on-chip memory controller *I think*,J >         that local memory access may be on the order of 70 ns + overheadL >         or somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 ns (maybe less).  "Remote"M >         memory is accessed via on-chip network controller and latencies are79 >         spelled out in the 21364 powerpoint found here:u >c: > http://www.alphapowered.com/presentations/alpha21364.ppt > B >         Noting slide 14.  As you can see, the network switch canC >         bypass L2 so taking information from other slides you canuG >         see a single hop remote memory access could be something likeeF >         70 ns + 15 ns (CPU to CPU latency) plus additional overhead.! >         Less than 150 ns or so.  >tH >         Perhaps you could draw a better conclusion from the powerpointH >         slide.  Seems somewhat murky to me regarding remote latencies. >e  F As you should know from bitter experience by now what ever conclusionsH you draw from the powerpoint slide it is only a powerpoint slide and not the actual working system.   Regards( Andrew Harrisonn Enterprise IT Architecti   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 12:39:12 +0100(/ From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>i* Subject: re: Sun Hardware problems persist6 Message-ID: <009EFB87.EC704081.6@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>  ' > re: stories of sun hardware failures.v > N > I find it very hard to beleive that Sun's hardware would be of such inferior? > quality that hardware failures would be significantly higher.r  N It's not true of Sun kit in general(?) This is all about a particular piece of Sun kit.  M Also, in a fast-developing industry like computers, the unexpected or unknowntN is always lurking. Other manufacturers have had their purple patches. RememberI the DEC RA81s? So one might say "there but for the grace of God ...", andnE I'd not hold a manufacturer blame-worthy simply because they were therD first to run into a formerly unknown problem. But I'd expect them to@ acknowlege it and fix it. Intel were foolish to ship 1.13GHz P3sK without following up reviewer claims (about engineering samples) that they nG weren't stable. But at least they did acknowlege the problem and recalle the product.  > This is really what this is about. Firstly, Sun do not appear L willing to accept that a problem exists -- they, or Andrew anyway, wants to O "Spin" the blame to the customer, saying that the kit was being operated in an bJ unsuitable environment (despite evidence that other manufacturer's kit wasI running adjacent in the same room, perfectly happily). The second is that N it does not appear to be a time-delay problem that escaped product developmentF testing because it develops only with the passage of time. Instead, itJ appears to be an inbuilt unreliability that should have been caught beforeK the product was shipped. And finally, many months down the road, Sun still o. don't appear to have it understood and fixed.    > L > Perhaps the lack of any bad news about DEC gear in the media is due to theJ > fact that so few high profile shops run on DEC gear, and that the higherP > number of SUN hardwre news is due to the sheer number of SUN hardware that has > proliferated everywhere.   I think you mean CPQ?2  M Actually, plenty of high-profile sites do run on DEC/CPQ gear. It tends to be1K the mission-critical back-office stuff, which results in low visibility to  J those not deeply in the know. It is also probably true that many of these F organisations deliberately maintain that low profile, so as not to aidC hackers or criminals or terrorists, or for that matter competitors.   H When did you last read in a newspaper, "the stockmarket computer systemsJ have been up and running continuously for five years since yesterday"? ButG a one-hour outage, and *boy* do you notice the headlines! Similarly younB don't read positive stuff about brokerages and banks with IT that F works perfectly, only horror stories from the places where it doesn't.H Would you know or care what computers Ebay uses, if Ebay had been up and7 running continuously without interruption from day one?t   > N > Perhaps the vast majority of DEC-based shops are truly "legacy" in the senseI > that they still have computer rooms that were built to higher standardsrL > (especially electrical power supply) whereas many new .coms are using .SUN1 > hardware in just glorified office environments.-  I If a manufacturer specifies the kit for a particular environmental range,,J then it should work perfectly anywhere in that range. (Andrew - I've askedF before - what is the environmental specification in the manual for theD problem systems, and are you willing to categorically state that theL customers were in all cases operating their kit outside this specification?)? Further, in order to make that promise, I'd expect them to testeE the hardware during development under rather more extreme conditions..I Saying that it's less reliable because it's in an office that fluctuates iA between 18C and 25C rather than a flat-20C machine room is bogus,oI unless the manufacturer's specifications *require* a highly regulated 20CbG environment. (In which case you'd probably buy something less demandingw from the competition).  I The specification is commonly up to 32C at 8000ft (usually also humidity kC limits.) Few humans are happy working at 32C with 80% humidity. So,CL unless it's a real slave-labour sweatshop, if the people are comfortable theH computers ought to be OK. They will be, if they are the DEC/Compaq ones  I'm familiar with! o  X > P > How much of SUN's gear is commodity, and how much is custom built just for SunN > ? Does/can Sun really select commodity chips/components that are so inferior: > as to result in significantly higher hardware problems ? >   M There's nothing wrong with commodity in general. I've seen cheap PCs stuck inkK lab equipment racks with ambient air temperature in excess of 40C, and with C failed power supply and heatsink fans to add to their woes, and yetlL they soldier on, operating for years way outside their design specification.K This is of course not to be recommended, but it is what I'd hope for from am well-engineered product. G  F As for the custom parts, of course they don't select for problems, butH there are numerous tradeoffs that have to be made, where a good engineerE will want one thing and the beancounters something cheaper or sooner.hE If the beancounters win too often, the resulting product may well be eL unreliable, or exhibit problems at customer sites rather than in development labs."   	Yours,r
 		Nigel Arnoti- 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                   w  7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."e   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2000 11:53:49 -0500., From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist+ Message-ID: <QZUdt6J2lzPk@eisner.decus.org>e  \ In article <39B5D832.4EBE9A38@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:' > re: stories of sun hardware failures.= > N > I find it very hard to beleive that Sun's hardware would be of such inferior? > quality that hardware failures would be significantly higher.e >   G    I'm afraid all this is going to get you is anecdotal evidence.  Yes,pE    we too have had a bit more trouble with our Sun hardware than withgE    our DEC/Compaq hardware of late, but we don't own any of those big 2    nasty Suns, just a whole bunch of workstations.  D    I recall days of DEC hardware problems, HP hardware problems, ...    so what does this get you?   F    I recall DEC repairing 17 year old hardware, HP pulling the productA    off the market, DEC blaiming cosmic rays for RAM problems, ...p  E    I'm much more interested in how they respond to customers problems0-    than whether they're having one right now.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 16:09:14 +01007- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> * Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist) Message-ID: <39B65E1A.82A79BE1@bbc.co.uk>o   David A Froble wrote:   Q >  (Wonder if he's thinking of taking Hoff up on the offer of the availability ofgR > an AlphaServer if he'd commit to a port of Star Office?  His job is getting REAL	 > tough!)  >n  R  Yeah, nice idea, if we could be sure he optimized it for VMS properly rather than- producing a version that runs but like a dog.    --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukT  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 15:48:16 GMTa4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist< Message-ID: <4Htt5.61354$NH2.492733@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>   <snip>  G > >         From what I can determine the Marvel latency is much betterlH > >         as CPU is directly attached to "slow" RAMBUS (RDRAM) memory. But H > >         because it is direct and has an on-chip memory controller *I think*L > >         that local memory access may be on the order of 70 ns + overheadD > >         or somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 ns (maybe less). "Remote"K > >         memory is accessed via on-chip network controller and latenciesA areh; > >         spelled out in the 21364 powerpoint found here:  > >i< > > http://www.alphapowered.com/presentations/alpha21364.ppt > >rD > >         Noting slide 14.  As you can see, the network switch canE > >         bypass L2 so taking information from other slides you cantI > >         see a single hop remote memory access could be something likeuH > >         70 ns + 15 ns (CPU to CPU latency) plus additional overhead.# > >         Less than 150 ns or so.i > >bJ > >         Perhaps you could draw a better conclusion from the powerpointJ > >         slide.  Seems somewhat murky to me regarding remote latencies. > >t >eH > As you should know from bitter experience by now what ever conclusionsJ > you draw from the powerpoint slide it is only a powerpoint slide and not > the actual working system.  L How true. In order to see the actual Marvel system in the MR01 lab, you needJ to sign an NDA. Criteria for this NDA are no doubt more stringent than the( criteria for a Sun UE10K memory fix NDA.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 16:40:06 GMTt" From: Pteppic <pchill@my-deja.com>* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist) Message-ID: <8p5s11$s14$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   * In article <39B5FB87.57F1B68F@uk.sun.com>,E   Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:     9 Hey, I think I've figured out what he's trying to say....k  C If you stick to buying really big Sun systems then they run so much E faster that it doesn't matter so much that they need replacement cpus , every few hours..  (they catch up so quick).  E Although I'm still not convinced about the "faster" bit. Anybody seenIC any Oracle Apps benchmarks for E10Ks? I'm assuming they exist sinceoF Andrew stated that the new GS series machines need a 2.5 X improvement@ to catch up with Suns or was that based on some other benchmark? (PAM-CRASH perhaps?)    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.-   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2000 09:42:20 -0500r* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) Subject: Sun's Bitter Harvestm+ Message-ID: <VKg8N0ntdVPO@eisner.decus.org>2  o In article <39B5FB87.57F1B68F@uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:a > Rob Young wrote:   > H > As you should know from bitter experience by now what ever conclusionsJ > you draw from the powerpoint slide it is only a powerpoint slide and not > the actual working system. >   ? 	Bitter?  Me?  Nah... but now that you mention "bitter" , how's C 	that Bitter Harvest going over there at ComputerWorld, week number  	two?'  N http://www.computerworld.com/cwi/story/0,1199,NAV47-68-86-101_STO49479,00.html  P "Pretty sad, huh? And the situation's even sorrier for customers who switched toH Sun over the past year and a half, while the gag strategy kept them from: finding out about the problem. They're stuck with lemons."    N http://www.computerworld.com/cwi/story/0,1199,NAV47-68-86-101_STO49356,00.html  O "It's embarrassing enough for Sun to have to admit that after a year or more ofrJ trying, it still can't fix a problem plaguing its top-selling product lineI [Page One, Aug. 28]. Even worse, the company's statements downplaying thenL impact of the problem were contradicted by analysts and angry users, who sayM the issue has affected a lot more sites for a lot longer than Sun claims. ButeF getting caught gagging customers in return for speedy service and full3 disclosure is the real public relations nightmare."i    D http://www.computerworld.com/cwi/story/0,1199,NAV47_STO49485,00.html  P "Since Computerworld first reported the problem last week, additional users haveM come forward to recount similar experiences. Topping their list of complaintsiK are the frequency of server crashes caused by the problem, fixes that don'tnN work and Sun's tendency to initially blame the problem on other factors before? acknowledging it - often only under a nondisclosure agreement."<   	o 	Come Spin with us Andrew!   				Robr   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 15:56:08 +0100   From: steven.reece@quintiles.com! Subject: Re: Sun's Bitter HarvestsH Message-ID: <OF302603B5.00142E23-ON80256952.0051C155@qedi.quintiles.com>  K How's this for irony.  The racks that my colleague is being directed to (byiI the Sun web-site IIRC) for his Sun kit are by SharkRack.  Their banner athB the top of the web page at http://www.sharkrack.com/cabinet.html ?  6 "SharkRack! The coolest rack solution for Sun systems"  " Good planning guys, good planning.   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2000 11:03:47 +0200m* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)1 Subject: Re: TCP/IP 5.0A PatchList or ECO Summarye* Message-ID: <39b60873$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  k In article <8oun9u$3md$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:oh >In article <39B2CD20.189992C1@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>, "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU> writes:H >:>   If folks are having specific problems with TCP/IP Services, please: >:>   contact the Compaq Customer Support Center directly.G >:	Sorry, Hoff, but CCS can't offer anything, I have contacted with UCX @ >:engineering a couple month ago and they was going to silence ! >nB >  To the point: Details of the specific problem(s) or request(s)?  J I wrote three postings not so long ago about problems/irritations I found: <3991932f$1@news.kapsch.co.at> <3993367d@news.kapsch.co.at> <39ac0aa2$1@news.kapsch.co.at>   I now have a 4th problem:o ACCVIO of BIND serverO  G And, no, I still haven't opened support calls, but I will soon (after I87 checked my now changed/discontinued support contracts).t   -- e< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888r< FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netF <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 13:04:40 +0400o4 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>1 Subject: Re: TCP/IP 5.0A PatchList or ECO Summaryp/ Message-ID: <39B608A8.A5F6A12@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>m    Thanks for the explanation Hoff!/ 	Yes, it's not related to the TCPIP 5.0a topic.  	I 100% agreed with you. :-)   Hoff Hoffman wrote:S > i > In article <39B50C85.865C672E@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>, "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU> writes:tR > :> : I found workaround, but ... no answer from UCX guys for the past 2-3 month. > :> : Why?  > :>O > :>   I can think of more than a few reasons.  Was this report made via direct C > :>   contact with Engineering, or was it formally logged via CSC?e > :aO > : Because CSC can get me an answer about _programing_ problem or information.dN > : Some time ago I contacted a CSC for the ACME info, you know how this story > : is ended. :-)r > M >   Yes, I do know how this particular External Authentication (ACME-related)eN >   discussion ended, and I know why it ended -- for the gentle reader joiningK >   this discussion in progress, Ruslan references an email discussion thatcK >   was involving various folks including myself.  I expect Ruslan was toldoI >   by CSC that this was not a public API and/or that this was not an API J >   that CSC was familiar with and/or not an API that CSC could help with. > I >   The particular question Ruslan had -- involving how to hook a package L >   into the external authentication API -- ended up with direct discussionsK >   with OpenVMS engineering, as ACME is not a released nor documented API, K >   and latent (undocumented and unsupported) features and features related J >   to field tests are not areas that the folks at CSC will normally field >   questions on.p > M >   This External Authentication (ACME) thread also not particularly releventaK >   to the earlier reports of problems related to TCP/IP V5.0 and later, as-K >   the ACME API is a component of OpenVMS that is (expected to be) used bywK >   various OpenVMS components and layered products.  It is not specific to0M >   TCP/IP Services.  I've also not yet seen details on any of the IP-relatedrC >   problem reports.  As for these earlier reference to differencesbM >   encountered in the IP drivers for V4.x and V5.x releases or other reportshF >   of problems, I'd like to get some details and get these problem(s)I >   documented or cleaned up -- whether a workaround is available or not.eN >   As for the ACME API, that will hopefully be documented in a future OpenVMSK >   release -- at current best guess, probably in V7.3-1, but that scheduler >   may well change... > P >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   --   Cheers,eF +OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker........................................+E  Russia,Delta Telecom Inc,                    Cel:  +7 (901) 971-3222iE  191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3                     116-3222aE                                               Fax:  +7 (812) 115-1099pG +http://www.levitte.org/~rlaishev/ .......... SysMan rides HailStorm +
h   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 13:57:53 +0400r4 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>1 Subject: Re: TCP/IP 5.0A PatchList or ECO Summaryh0 Message-ID: <39B61521.A54C166F@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: > m > In article <8oun9u$3md$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:bj > >In article <39B2CD20.189992C1@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>, "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU> writes:J > >:>   If folks are having specific problems with TCP/IP Services, please< > >:>   contact the Compaq Customer Support Center directly.N > >:      Sorry, Hoff, but CCS can't offer anything, I have contacted with UCXB > >:engineering a couple month ago and they was going to silence ! > >nD > >  To the point: Details of the specific problem(s) or request(s)? > L > I wrote three postings not so long ago about problems/irritations I found:  > <3991932f$1@news.kapsch.co.at> > <3993367d@news.kapsch.co.at>  > <39ac0aa2$1@news.kapsch.co.at> >  > I now have a 4th problem:o > ACCVIO of BIND servero > I > And, no, I still haven't opened support calls, but I will soon (after Id9 > checked my now changed/discontinued support contracts).m4 	Peter, why you don't want to migrate to PSC stack ?   >  > --> > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651= > Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888d> > FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH > <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANJ > A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"P > "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   -- m Cheers,tF +OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker........................................+E  Russia,Delta Telecom Inc,                    Cel:  +7 (901) 971-3222oE  191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3                     116-3222 E                                               Fax:  +7 (812) 115-1099nG +http://www.levitte.org/~rlaishev/ .......... SysMan rides HailStorm +
l   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2000 14:03:21 +0200e* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)1 Subject: Re: TCP/IP 5.0A PatchList or ECO Summary * Message-ID: <39b63289$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  g In article <39B61521.A54C166F@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>, "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU> writes: 5 >	Peter, why you don't want to migrate to PSC stack ?h  @ As I wrote umpteen times in the past, we have both (DEQ and PSC)  E Sometimes we have problems with TCPware and sometimes with UCX/TCPIP.sK It is good to have the problems not at the same time (and the same systems)sH so that we can quickly move (network) services from one node to another.: And, yes, we had main and mean problems with TCPware, too.  E Another reason is, I don't get any money for any VMS system any more.2F So, I have TCPware on the servers (because at the time we bought them,F TCPware was about 85% (!) cheaper and had twice to three times (!) theE features versus UCX - I think V2 then) and TCPIP on the rest (becausey. the UCX license was there from the beginning).  H Yes, TCPware has still more features than TCPIP but now also vice versa.4 eg. You still can't use the MGMTAGENTS with TCPware.  D And finally, a discussion about problems in TCPIP should IMHO not beF ending with "Please migrate to another stack". It might be my decisionK anyway, but it should not be in the interrest of Q (and their engineers)...k   -- a< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888h< FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netF <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 16:42:44 +0400o4 From: "Ruslan R. Laishev" <Laishev@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>1 Subject: Re: TCP/IP 5.0A PatchList or ECO Summarye0 Message-ID: <39B63BC4.144BF6E0@SMTP.DeltaTel.RU>   Hi !  F > And finally, a discussion about problems in TCPIP should IMHO not beH > ending with "Please migrate to another stack". It might be my decisionM > anyway, but it should not be in the interrest of Q (and their engineers)...4 	Yes. 100% agreed.   -- n Cheers,oF +OpenVMS [Sys|Net] HardWorker........................................+E  Russia,Delta Telecom Inc,                    Cel:  +7 (901) 971-3222eE  191119,St.Petersburg,Transportny per. 3                     116-3222eE                                               Fax:  +7 (812) 115-1099 G +http://www.levitte.org/~rlaishev/ .......... SysMan rides HailStorm +
s   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 10:42:50 +02009 From: "Christian Vanguers" <christian.vanguers@gtech.com>a! Subject: VMS learning ressources.w) Message-ID: <8p507d$d6s4@news1.gtech.com>o   Hello...  J My job needs i start learning VMS...  I think this newsgroup is a good wayD to ask for VMS learning ressources, websites, docs, and whatever....  ; Maybe does it exist a FAQ or a FM where i could find that..r   Thanks,    Chrisitan Vanguers   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 11:05:18 +0200s% From: David Romero <romerod@gedas.es>n% Subject: Re: VMS learning ressources.0' Message-ID: <39B608CE.9E395C1@gedas.es>t   Hi,   6 You can start with http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/   David.   Christian Vanguers wrote:t  
 > Hello... >cL > My job needs i start learning VMS...  I think this newsgroup is a good wayF > to ask for VMS learning ressources, websites, docs, and whatever.... >f= > Maybe does it exist a FAQ or a FM where i could find that..a >v	 > Thanks,c >i > Chrisitan Vanguers   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 11:28:37 +0200o6 From: "Dijk, Jeroen van" <Jeroen.vandijk@getronics.nl>% Subject: RE: VMS learning ressources.eM Message-ID: <2795B75EF003D311801A00A0C906B51187E528@cucexec.gbc.getronics.nl>t  ' Good starters are the following links. m  6 http://www.openvms.digital.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html   And for training< http://www.globalknowledge.es/home.asp?id_lang=es&id_coun=es  Z Try to get a copy of the Student manual of "OpenVMS System and Network Node Management I".  % A good starter is this online manual.n< http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/72final/6489/6489pro.html  E If you need a test/training OpenVMS computer try the following link.   http://www.hobbesthevax.comh     -- Jeroen M.W. van Dijk  Getronics Business Continuity BV8 Error #152 - Windows not found: (C)heer (P)arty (D)ance.             -----Original Message-----, From: David Romero [mailto:romerod@gedas.es]% Sent: woensdag 6 september 2000 11:05o To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com % Subject: Re: VMS learning ressources.o     Hi,   6 You can start with http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/   David.   Christian Vanguers wrote:e  
 > Hello... > L > My job needs i start learning VMS...  I think this newsgroup is a good wayF > to ask for VMS learning ressources, websites, docs, and whatever.... >i= > Maybe does it exist a FAQ or a FM where i could find that..a >L	 > Thanks,  >o > Chrisitan Vanguers   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 11:38:50 +0200m= From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>u% Subject: Re: VMS learning ressources.s) Message-ID: <39B610A9.8CA20E81@gtech.com>h   Christian Vanguers wrote:oL > My job needs i start learning VMS...  I think this newsgroup is a good wayF > to ask for VMS learning ressources, websites, docs, and whatever.... > = > Maybe does it exist a FAQ or a FM where i could find that..i  # There are links to most usefull at:a+   http://www.levitte.org/~ava/vms_doc.htmlxr+   http://www.levitte.org/~ava/vms_faq.htmlxi   Arne   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2000 15:13:27 GMTt2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)% Subject: Re: VMS learning ressources.-, Message-ID: <8p5mun$49t@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  O In article <39B608CE.9E395C1@gedas.es>, David Romero <romerod@gedas.es> writes:  >Hi, >D7 >You can start with http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/5 >B  # These may be helpful for beginners:U  2   http://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/www/vms_sheet.html:   http://seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu/www/vms_beginners_faq.html   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduu? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech r   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 16:10:15 GMTh From: rothsteh@my-deja.com Subject: VMS not startingy) Message-ID: <8p5q8j$poe$1@nnrp1.deja.com>s   Hello,  , I made the following change to my VMS 5.5-2.   SCSNODE = "test"  / and used autogen to make the changes and rebootr the system.e  ) When it came back up, it told me that thes/ SCSNODENUM was not set to a non zero value, ande0 decnet did not start correctly. Does anyone have  any clue how I can rectify this?   Thanks   Howien    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.s   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2000 16:42:16 GMTF2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: VMS not startingt6 Message-ID: <8p5s58$9s8$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  F In article <8p5q8j$poe$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, rothsteh@my-deja.com writes:- :I made the following change to my VMS 5.5-2.n     OpenVMS VAX, obviously.e   :SCSNODE = "test"e ..* :When it came back up, it told me that the0 :SCSNODENUM was not set to a non zero value, and1 :decnet did not start correctly. Does anyone haveu! :any clue how I can rectify this?-  ?   Please start with the directions on (correctly) changing the  ?   nodename that are located in the OpenVMS FAQ...  It is ratherr=   more involved than changing SCSNODE and SCSSYSTEMID -- the  >   latter system parameter being the likely chief culprit here,>   and the directions on setting it correctly being in the FAQ.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 14:21:18 -0300h1 From: "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com>y Subject: RE: VMS not startinghK Message-ID: <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A8AEA7E@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>   C SCSNODENUM ?, I don't know what this is but at a guess I'd say it's J referring to SCSSYSTEMID which is calculated by (node_area_number * 1024 + node_number)  - i.e.  Decnet Address is 42.21  so  42*1024+21m SCSSYSTEMID  = 43029 - Darren   > ----------8 > From: 	rothsteh@my-deja.com[SMTP:rothsteh@my-deja.com]. > Sent: 	Wednesday, September 06, 2000 1:10 PM > To: 	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com > Subject: 	VMS not starting >  > Hello, > . > I made the following change to my VMS 5.5-2. >  > SCSNODE = "test" > 1 > and used autogen to make the changes and rebootr
 > the system.  > + > When it came back up, it told me that the-1 > SCSNODENUM was not set to a non zero value, and02 > decnet did not start correctly. Does anyone have" > any clue how I can rectify this? >  > Thanks >  > Howie0 >  > ( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.y >     F **********************************************************************C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential andwJ may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.M They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they-L are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copyingu of this message is prohibited.   Bank of Bermuda.F **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:48:34 +0200' From: "vmsmurfy" <vmsmurfy@hotmail.com>m  Subject: Re: WORD viewer for VMS* Message-ID: <8p5aok$f26$1@cyan.nl.gxn.net>  u "Paul BEAUDOIN" <paul.beaudoin@hsbc.com> wrote in message news:80256951.002DFDA9.00@emea-smtp-03.midlandbank.co.uk...a >  >  > Gents, > D > I picked up a program called CATDOC recently that converts WORD to > ASCII. Seems to work fine. t [snip]5 Ah ! Picked it up too. BUT IT DID NOT WORK PROPERLY !95 Whole lines were missing so I tossed it in the bin...    vmsmurfy   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 12:58:55 +0100 2 From: Chris Sharman <Chris.Sharman@CCAgroup.co.uk>  Subject: Re: WORD viewer for VMS. Message-ID: <39B63F8F.3FDAFE2D@CCAgroup.co.uk>  H Well, I use laola - also not perfect, but marginally better on the (one)> test file I tried. How good do you expect a free tool, reverse engineered billware, to be ??l   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 16:15:56 +01008- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>   Subject: Re: WORD viewer for VMS) Message-ID: <39B65FAC.CEA1A4B2@bbc.co.uk>W  ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:   > Tim Llewellyn wrote: >- > > Rudolf Wingert wrote:0 > >4 > > > Hello, > > >sG > > > my mention of slow performance under OpenVMS is: it is political.hG > > > Many years ago, as TCP/IP was not an standard and less poeple did L > > > speack about change to TCP/IP we bought the Sun DECnet implemantation.G > > > DECnet transfer was very slow (only half the speed of TCP/IP). SocJ > > > the UNIX fans said DECnet is a slow duck. After years, TCP/IP was inG > > > every mouth, the new one DECnet implementation did have the same,CL > > > or a little bit better performance as TCP/IP. Nobody did realize this.H > > > TCP/IP was in front! This showed me, that the politic of Sun is toD > > > implement a break in non Sun systems, so that every body says:2 > > > DEcnet/OpenVMS is slow, Sun Solaris is fast. > > >r > >nK > > Now, where have I heard that story before? Ah, thats right, Word on thes > > Mac. >eF > Yes but there is no need for it to be the case with StarOffice. WordF > Source was never released under GPL and so no one had an opportunity+ > to improve the way Word behaved on a MAC.u  M Fair enough, I take back what I said in my recent response in another thread. H You are right, with open source its a lot more difficult to play M$ type& games, if that is what ones intention.  M Actually, it seems that VMS C RTL support and filesystem caaching is probablyo the biggest.E performance hurdle, given recent threads (well, in fact it seems like  they/ve been going all year).    >n >aE > StarOffice on the other hand will be released under GPL and on thisiG > basis there is nothing to stop you or anyone else optimising the helluB > out of the OpenVMS port, this option was never available for the > MAC.  B Yup, but really it needs to be done by one group/organisation, for= consistency. Otherwise StarOffice for VMS will breed like theo proverbial rabbits.n     --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uko  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofr MedAS or the BBC.o   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2000 12:25:57 -0500s9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)e  Subject: Re: WORD viewer for VMS+ Message-ID: <CHM7SHA0byI7@eisner.decus.org>m  Y In article <39B65FAC.CEA1A4B2@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:t >  > * > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:  G >> Yes but there is no need for it to be the case with StarOffice. WordeG >> Source was never released under GPL and so no one had an opportunity , >> to improve the way Word behaved on a MAC. > O > Fair enough, I take back what I said in my recent response in another thread.aJ > You are right, with open source its a lot more difficult to play M$ type( > games, if that is what ones intention. > B > Actually, it seems that VMS C RTL support and filesystem caching > is probably the biggest1G > performance hurdle, given recent threads (well, in fact it seems like  > they/ve been going all year).   H Whatever the issue, a quality port of StarOffice would provide somethingG ported from Unix that more people than David Mathog needed.  That could K provide the impetus for DEQ to make VMS improvements related to performancetI of Unix ports.  (My impression is that the COE specification is all about3- compatibility and nothing about performance.)G   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 16:48:10 +0100,B From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>  Subject: Re: WORD viewer for VMS* Message-ID: <39B6673A.4F1DE78A@uk.sun.com>   Tim Llewellyn wrote:  * > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >I > > Tim Llewellyn wrote: > >t > > > Rudolf Wingert wrote:r > > >r > > > > Hello, > > > >rI > > > > my mention of slow performance under OpenVMS is: it is political.eI > > > > Many years ago, as TCP/IP was not an standard and less poeple did N > > > > speack about change to TCP/IP we bought the Sun DECnet implemantation.I > > > > DECnet transfer was very slow (only half the speed of TCP/IP). SoeL > > > > the UNIX fans said DECnet is a slow duck. After years, TCP/IP was inI > > > > every mouth, the new one DECnet implementation did have the same,,N > > > > or a little bit better performance as TCP/IP. Nobody did realize this.J > > > > TCP/IP was in front! This showed me, that the politic of Sun is toF > > > > implement a break in non Sun systems, so that every body says:4 > > > > DEcnet/OpenVMS is slow, Sun Solaris is fast. > > > >n > > >aM > > > Now, where have I heard that story before? Ah, thats right, Word on thes
 > > > Mac. > >SH > > Yes but there is no need for it to be the case with StarOffice. WordH > > Source was never released under GPL and so no one had an opportunity- > > to improve the way Word behaved on a MAC.  >"O > Fair enough, I take back what I said in my recent response in another thread..J > You are right, with open source its a lot more difficult to play M$ type( > games, if that is what ones intention. >rO > Actually, it seems that VMS C RTL support and filesystem caaching is probably 
 > the biggest G > performance hurdle, given recent threads (well, in fact it seems likey > they/ve been going all year).- >-  E Again I don't think this should be an enormous issue, file I/O is notsD in my experience from running StarOffice on different PC's and Sun'sH the gating factor on performance. Like most of the other office products@ StarOffice needs adequate memory and a reasonable CPU. That saidE my wife uses it quite happily on an old 100 Mhz Pentium 40 MB ToshibacF satelite pro, in fact i may only be 90 Mhz. It does not exactly scorchA allong and the presentation package is pretty slow but the wp andTB spreadsheet are fine and thats what she uses it for so everyone is happy.   Regardso Andrew Harrisonk Enterprise IT Architects   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 17:27:44 +0100P- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>y  Subject: Re: WORD viewer for VMS) Message-ID: <39B67080.1A4C52AF@bbc.co.uk>u   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  [ > In article <39B65FAC.CEA1A4B2@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:C > D > > Actually, it seems that VMS C RTL support and filesystem caching > > is probably the biggest I > > performance hurdle, given recent threads (well, in fact it seems likeg! > > they/ve been going all year).S >tJ > Whatever the issue, a quality port of StarOffice would provide somethingI > ported from Unix that more people than David Mathog needed.  That couldiM > provide the impetus for DEQ to make VMS improvements related to performancekK > of Unix ports.  (My impression is that the COE specification is all aboutr/ > compatibility and nothing about performance.)-  G IMHO this is the way to do it. After all, anything above 500 MHz CPU isSM going to have CPU to burn for desktop productivity stuff, surely? A differentA$ position entirely to David Mathog's.  O If it is reliable, and well coded without latent deadlocks and race conditions,a4 it should run on the slowest and the fastest alphas.  C Now, about the GS320 with a 21inch X display as my replacement wordv processing platform... :-) --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofn MedAS or the BBC.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 17:31:06 +0100r- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>W  Subject: Re: WORD viewer for VMS) Message-ID: <39B6714A.1BC2BA60@bbc.co.uk>   ( Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:   >, >PG > Again I don't think this should be an enormous issue, file I/O is not F > in my experience from running StarOffice on different PC's and Sun'sJ > the gating factor on performance. Like most of the other office productsB > StarOffice needs adequate memory and a reasonable CPU. That saidG > my wife uses it quite happily on an old 100 Mhz Pentium 40 MB ToshibaeH > satelite pro, in fact i may only be 90 Mhz. It does not exactly scorchC > allong and the presentation package is pretty slow but the wp andyD > spreadsheet are fine and thats what she uses it for so everyone is > happy.  F  As long as it works properly on the slowest hardware, once can always upgrade later.  C Presmably you and/or your wife are doing real work with Staroffice?0 --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukp  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofc MedAS or the BBC.s   ------------------------------   Date: 6 Sep 2000 13:52:32 -0500f9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen).  Subject: Re: WORD viewer for VMS+ Message-ID: <8CXiuZWg14zq@eisner.decus.org>n  Y In article <39B6714A.1BC2BA60@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:: >  > * > Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote: >  >> >>H >> Again I don't think this should be an enormous issue, file I/O is notG >> in my experience from running StarOffice on different PC's and Sun'shK >> the gating factor on performance. Like most of the other office productslC >> StarOffice needs adequate memory and a reasonable CPU. That saideH >> my wife uses it quite happily on an old 100 Mhz Pentium 40 MB ToshibaI >> satelite pro, in fact i may only be 90 Mhz. It does not exactly scorch D >> allong and the presentation package is pretty slow but the wp andE >> spreadsheet are fine and thats what she uses it for so everyone is/	 >> happy.t > H >  As long as it works properly on the slowest hardware, once can always > upgrade later. > E > Presmably you and/or your wife are doing real work with Staroffice?-  ? I am not sure what constitutes "real work" for word processing.p@ Regardless of whether she is writing a novel or making flyers to? publicize the coming Revolution of the Proleteriat, the load onp  the computer should be the same.  @ Personally, I write angry letters to the phone company, but I do/ so on a Macintosh, because that is what I have.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 18:18:51 +0100.- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>r  Subject: Re: WORD viewer for VMS) Message-ID: <39B67C7B.4F1C179B@bbc.co.uk>-   Larry Kilgallen wrote:  [ > In article <39B6714A.1BC2BA60@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:c >uG > > Presmably you and/or your wife are doing real work with Staroffice?g >hA > I am not sure what constitutes "real work" for word processing.nB > Regardless of whether she is writing a novel or making flyers toA > publicize the coming Revolution of the Proleteriat, the load ons" > the computer should be the same. >iB > Personally, I write angry letters to the phone company, but I do1 > so on a Macintosh, because that is what I have.o  H OK, that was a troll by me really. I have seen some disparaging commentsL on the quality of Star Office in the past. I do have a Windows/Linux versionM that came on the cover disk of one of the latest PC rags, so I guess I shoulddI try it myself but I have a relatively stable Windows setup at home and ams: reluctant to mess with it, and potentially delay my album.  J Writing letters is one thing, writing a book is another, but the former isE I guess adequate for day-to-day office stuff which I'd MUCH rather do/F on VMS than the W98 desktop I currently have, even if I have to have a  PC running a XServer on my desk.     --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uks  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofi MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 08:12:24 -0400o) From: "Joseph B. Gurman" <gurman@ari.net>t% Subject: Re: WORD viewer for VMS (OT)s= Message-ID: <gurman-456041.08122406092000@news.crosslink.net>o  A In article <39B51C2A.B786154D@uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK  - Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:o   [snip]  K > > Now, where have I heard that story before? Ah, thats right, Word on theo > > Mac. > F > Yes but there is no need for it to be the case with StarOffice. WordF > Source was never released under GPL and so no one had an opportunity+ > to improve the way Word behaved on a MAC.:   [snip]  E     Well, just to be fair [this hurts] to Microsoft, they produced a SH very nice version for the Mac in Word 5 ages ago, and finally put their F money where their revenue steam is almost unchallenged --- Mac OS --- D and Word 98 has also been very fast and easy to use despite rampant > featureitis. (Anything in between 5 and 98 is best forgotten.)  G     Now MS's Mac OS app group (who also develop IE and Outlook Express hI for the Mac as well as Office) are totally separate from the mother Borg n@ in Redmond: they're in the Bay area, near a lot of other Mac OS  developers.b  I      As for how this could translate for OpenVMS: not. MS never obtained -H a reliable revenue stream from VAXes or Alphas of any flavor (including " the ill-fated NT-on-Alpha effort).  >     Since there are public-source RTF-to-LaTeX (for instance) D translators, there could certainlty be an RTF-to-{OVMS viewer}, but A that's clearly not the same thing as a bina fide Word doc viewer.d                     Joe Gurman   ------------------------------  $ Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 09:46:20 +0400* From: "Yuri Ermakov" <ermak@cbr.ryazan.su> Subject: : Need Help !/ Message-ID: <8p4k2u$s1m$1@summer.cbr.ryazan.su>*  3 http://www.networks.digital.com/dr/routers/manuals/-  C "Alex Martynjuk" <alex@druzhba.lviv.ua> /  d8 : news:968147975.797811@gate.druzhba.lviv.ua...
 > Hi All ! >cK > I have more routers DECwanrouter 90 EW, i will managment this routers viaM
 > DECnet/OSI. K > I install DECnet package on Alpha 2100 with Digital UNIX 4.0F and try usehK > ncl command. In Users-Guide write command for delete PPP link on router :s# > ncl> disable ppp link <link-name> - > I try use this command but it not work ! :(eL > Where find documentation for NCL command for managment DECwanrouter 90EW ? > Pls help me !t >/ > alex@druzhba.lviv.ua >u >y   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.499 ************************essage and any files transmitted with it are confidential andwJ may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.M They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they-L are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediacs.uic.edu> 5 VAX                               Language: DEC C 5.X 5 AXP                               Language: DEC C 5.X O ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- O BLOCKADE.ZIP                      X version of the `blockade' Macintosh game by 3                                   Christer Ericson. G                                   Author: mouse@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu : VAX                               Language: VAX C or DEC C1 AXP                               Language: DEC C O ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ? CARIBBEANSTUD.ZIP                 X11 Motif gambling card game. 4                                   Author: Qun  ZhangG                                           <qzhang@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu> 9 VAX                               Language: DEC C++ 5.2 + 9 AXP                               Language: DEC C++ 5.2 + O ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- D CATCLOCK.ZIP                      analog / digital / cat clock for X*                                   Authors:C                                   Tony Della Fera (MIT-Athena, DEC) @                                   Dave Mankins (MIT-Athena, BBN)6                                   Ed Moy (UC Berkeley)L                                   Deanna Hohn (DEC) created the cat pixmaps.N         Philip Schneider (DEC) created the pendulum tails and eyes, and ported!         the program to Motif 1.1. : VAX                               Language: VAX C or DEC C1 AXP                               Language: DEC C O ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- J CBZONE_MPJZ.ZIP                   Tank battle under X Window  version 2.0CB                                   Authors: Justin S Revenaugh, MITN                                            Todd W Mummert, mummert+@cs.cmu.eduL VAX                               Languages: VAX C 3.2 or DEC C 4.0 (better)6 AXP                               Language: 