1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 11 Sep 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 508       Contents:. Re: Barrel rolls, was Re: aircraft are not Sun. Re: Barrel rolls, was Re: aircraft are not Sun. Re: Barrel rolls, was Re: aircraft are not Sun. Re: Barrel rolls, was Re: aircraft are not Sun. Re: Barrel rolls, was Re: aircraft are not Sun. Re: Barrel rolls, was Re: aircraft are not Sun Re: Becoming another user?? ) Re: Copying account to another VMS system  Re: DECSERVER 90m AND TCPIP = FA: vaxstation 3100-48 loaded w/ vms 7.2 and layered products A Re: FA: vaxstation 3100-48 loaded w/ vms 7.2 and layered products  Re: LAT printer servers? Re: LAT printer servers? Re: LAT printer servers? Re: LAT printer servers? Re: LAT printer servers? Re: LAT printer servers? Re: LAT printer servers? Re: LAT printer servers?% Re: Off-Topic: DS10 Hardware question % Re: Off-Topic: DS10 Hardware question  Re: Reliable backups VAX 4000/90 and 4000/90A Re: VAX 4000/90 and 4000/90A Re: VAX 4000/90 and 4000/90A Re: VAX 4000/90 and 4000/90A% Re: Why I hate C on VMS, reason #9321   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 13:07:45 -0500 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> 7 Subject: Re: Barrel rolls, was Re: aircraft are not Sun - Message-ID: <39BBCDF1.690D8EC5@earthlink.net>    hg/jb wrote: > E > seriously, do you think the wings only provide lift on one surface?  > bob   A Lift is determined by a COMBINATION of wing geometry and angle of G attack. They can be made to seemingly contradict each other, such as in  inverted flight.   > Scott Vieth wrote: > >  > > All: > > = > > As long as we're on the subject, how does one do a barrel E > > roll with a large jet?  If the wings provide lift during "normal" B > > flight, wouldn't the force on the wings during inverted flight$ > > push the plane toward the earth?  D I've never been trained in aerobatics, but I expect that the controlC inputs the pilot must provide would be rather intricate, not simply H slapping the stick (or rolling the "wheel") to one side and expecting it
 to happen.  A > > I need to know the details so I can try this with the big jet " > > in Flight Simulator 2000.  ;^)  F Consider: How does a plane fly "sideways" - wings perpendicular to theE surface of the earth (90 degrees of bank)? Did that quite by accident F one day - in a craft not rated for such maneuvers (not that I was/am).    David J. Dachtera, FAA Licensed (Private) Pilot   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------   Date: 10 Sep 2000 19:30:59 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) 7 Subject: Re: Barrel rolls, was Re: aircraft are not Sun ' Message-ID: <8pgnhj$be9$1@joe.rice.edu>   , Scott Vieth (svieth@wi.rr.com.nospam) wrote: : All: : ; : As long as we're on the subject, how does one do a barrel C : roll with a large jet?  If the wings provide lift during "normal" @ : flight, wouldn't the force on the wings during inverted flight" : push the plane toward the earth? : ? : I need to know the details so I can try this with the big jet   : in Flight Simulator 2000.  ;^)   From:   N  http://www.microsoft.com/Games/COMBATFS/BEHIND_THE_SCENES_PILOT_INTERVIEW.HTM"  Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator     "Games Web  F    This is a little off topic but Mr. Jones, when you mentioned BoeingE    test pilot I seem to recall something about a historic Boeing test G    flight involving a 700-series jet doing a barrel roll on it's maiden @    flight. It caused quite a stir. Where you involved with that?      Al Jones      F    Your memory is good. The roll you described was in the prototype ofH    the 707 called the Dash 80. Tex Johnson, who was Chief of Flight TestE    at the time, did that maneuver during the Sea Fair races over Lake I    Washington. I think it was about 1958 or 59 but am not positive of the B    date. A barrel roll is done by using the ailerons and keeping aI    positive G force during the complete roll. It isn't a maneuver that is G    recommended for large passenger airplanes. I was flying B 52s at the I    Boeing Wichita Division and was not involved in that operation. It was G    quite spectacular and impressed a lot of people as to the structural     integrity of the 707."   3 From the rec.aviation.aerobatics FAQ, available at:   C   http://www.cs.uu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/aviation/aerobatics-faq.html    "Barrel Roll  -----------  G  The Barrel Roll is a not competition maneuver.  I The barrel roll is a E  combination between a loop and a roll.  You complete one loop while  H  completing one roll at the same time.  The flight path during a barrel G  roll has the shape of a horizontal cork screw.  Imagine a big barrel,  L  with the airplanes wheels rolling along the inside of the barrel in a cork J  screw path.  During a barrel roll, the pilot experiences always positive A  G's.  The maximum is about 2.5 to 3 G, the minimum about 0.5 G."   4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 20:03:54 GMT % From: hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net> 7 Subject: Re: Barrel rolls, was Re: aircraft are not Sun 0 Message-ID: <39BBE94C.DD957C71@bellatlantic.net>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > hg/jb wrote: > > G > > seriously, do you think the wings only provide lift on one surface?  > > bob  > C > Lift is determined by a COMBINATION of wing geometry and angle of I > attack. They can be made to seemingly contradict each other, such as in  > inverted flight. >  > > Scott Vieth wrote: > > > 
 > > > All: > > > ? > > > As long as we're on the subject, how does one do a barrel G > > > roll with a large jet?  If the wings provide lift during "normal" D > > > flight, wouldn't the force on the wings during inverted flight& > > > push the plane toward the earth? > F > I've never been trained in aerobatics, but I expect that the controlE > inputs the pilot must provide would be rather intricate, not simply J > slapping the stick (or rolling the "wheel") to one side and expecting it > to happen. > C > > > I need to know the details so I can try this with the big jet $ > > > in Flight Simulator 2000.  ;^) > H > Consider: How does a plane fly "sideways" - wings perpendicular to theG > surface of the earth (90 degrees of bank)? Did that quite by accident H > one day - in a craft not rated for such maneuvers (not that I was/am). > D I am not a pilot.  I don't ride in helicopters.  I don't ride in F4sC anymore, I don't ride upside down anymore.  I like to stay close to * the ground, fast, but close to the ground. bob    > David J. Dachtera, > FAA Licensed (Private) Pilot >  > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > < > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  > H > This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings > is to be expected. > B > Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression. > H > However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are > strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 22:25:19 GMT + From: Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com.nospam> 7 Subject: Re: Barrel rolls, was Re: aircraft are not Sun 0 Message-ID: <39BC0A70.714C26FA@wi.rr.com.nospam>   hg/jb wrote:  E > seriously, do you think the wings only provide lift on one surface?  > bob   L Seriously, what I know about lift comes from watching the Discovery channel.  I What makes planes fly?  The path that the air going over the *top* of the H wing takes is longer than the path that the air going under the *bottom* of the wing takes.  E The air pressure on top of the wing is lower then the air pressure on J the bottom of the wing and those little force arrows push up on the bottom of the wing.  G If you turn a wing over, the long path is now on the bottom of the wing K and the lower pressure would also be on the bottom of the wing.  The little A force arrows would seem to be pushing the wings toward the earth.   I Long periods of inverted flight would seem to be impossible yet I've seen  it done on TV.  P Ok, you c.o.v. pilots, I'm ready for a crash course (pun intended) on the forces that keep a plane A in the air.  And, yes, I've read the Flight Sim 2000 manual.  ;^)   
 -Scott :^)   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 00:03:56 GMT % From: hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net> 7 Subject: Re: Barrel rolls, was Re: aircraft are not Sun 0 Message-ID: <39BC218F.F79CE564@bellatlantic.net>   Scott Vieth wrote: > hg/jb wrote:G > > seriously, do you think the wings only provide lift on one surface?  > > bob N > Seriously, what I know about lift comes from watching the Discovery channel.K > What makes planes fly?  The path that the air going over the *top* of the J > wing takes is longer than the path that the air going under the *bottom* > of the wing takes. > G > The air pressure on top of the wing is lower then the air pressure on L > the bottom of the wing and those little force arrows push up on the bottom > of the wing. > I > If you turn a wing over, the long path is now on the bottom of the wing M > and the lower pressure would also be on the bottom of the wing.  The little C > force arrows would seem to be pushing the wings toward the earth.  > K > Long periods of inverted flight would seem to be impossible yet I've seen  > it done on TV. > R > Ok, you c.o.v. pilots, I'm ready for a crash course (pun intended) on the forces > that keep a plane C > in the air.  And, yes, I've read the Flight Sim 2000 manual.  ;^)  >  > -Scott :^) Scott,E I do not know what happens to the aerodynamics of the aircraft if you H flip the wing over, I just imagine there is air pressure and aerodynamicD forces that would have some interactive effect with the wing's lower; surface (formerly the top surface) and maybe make it fly...  bob 8}   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:21:24 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>7 Subject: Re: Barrel rolls, was Re: aircraft are not Sun - Message-ID: <39BC3394.F70C24F1@tsoft-inc.com>    Scott Vieth wrote: >  > hg/jb wrote: > G > > seriously, do you think the wings only provide lift on one surface?  > > bob  > N > Seriously, what I know about lift comes from watching the Discovery channel. > K > What makes planes fly?  The path that the air going over the *top* of the J > wing takes is longer than the path that the air going under the *bottom* > of the wing takes. > G > The air pressure on top of the wing is lower then the air pressure on L > the bottom of the wing and those little force arrows push up on the bottom > of the wing. > I > If you turn a wing over, the long path is now on the bottom of the wing M > and the lower pressure would also be on the bottom of the wing.  The little C > force arrows would seem to be pushing the wings toward the earth.  > K > Long periods of inverted flight would seem to be impossible yet I've seen  > it done on TV. > R > Ok, you c.o.v. pilots, I'm ready for a crash course (pun intended) on the forces > that keep a plane C > in the air.  And, yes, I've read the Flight Sim 2000 manual.  ;^)  >  > -Scott :^)  P Well, I doubt it can adequately be covered here, and it's off topic in any case.  O Essentially, you have already stated the concept of lift, with the high and low N pressure, the low pressure created by the longer path the 'relative wind' mustM take over the 'top' of the wing.  While enhanced by the shape of the airfoil, M this is caused primarily by the angle of attach of the wing into the relative P wind.  When inverted, a nose up attitude sufficient to cause the angle of attackN to cause the air going over the 'top' (in this case the bottom) of the wing toN take the longer path, sufficient lift is created to substain inverted flight. O Note that this lift in most cases is far less efficient than when not inverted.   O Aerobatic and other aircraft many times are designed with symmetrical airfoils, P ie; the top and bottom surfaces have the same shape, to allow the same degree ofI lift to be produced inverted as when not inverted.  However, this type of L airfoil is not as efficient as one designed for maximum efficiency in normal+ flight, and why they are not in common use.   O The above is not a complete course in aeronautical engineering, but I hope it's * sufficient to allow us to get back to VMS.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 15:02:42 +1100 4 From: "Jonathan Ridler" <jonathan.ridler@compaq.com>$ Subject: Re: Becoming another user??6 Message-ID: <8phlgl$5qc$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  ? "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message 0 news:8pav22$7m5$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com... > I > In article <39b83fe4.21332985@news.accesscable.net>, hx_101@hotmail.com  (Horse Nuts...) writes: H > :Is there a way to become another user, without actually logging in asH > :this user. I have system, and I want to test some stuff under another	 > :user!!  > ... G >   There are various unsupported tools such as GLOGIN and WHEEL, which  >   may or may not suffice ... > F >   These tools are version-dependent kernel-mode code, and I would beH >   (mildly) interested in knowing of any that have been updated to dealD >   with the new PSB internals used in OpenVMS Alpha V7.2 and later.  F Also, try JUMP which I wrote. It has lots of features, although as yetG it has not been updated for V7.2+ PSBs. It can optionally use a pseudo- 2 terminal to login as exactly the desired username.  6 http://www2.wku.edu/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?JUMP     or  % http://rubens.its.unimelb.edu.au/ftp/   	 Jonathan.    Jonathan Ridler 7 Business Critical Consultant, Compaq Computer Australia ) Tel: +61 3 9230 9136    Mob: 0401 148 242  jonathan.ridler@compaq.com   ------------------------------  $ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 15:21:17 -0400& From: "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.ca>2 Subject: Re: Copying account to another VMS system4 Message-ID: <3SRt5.431$k6.11405@weber.videotron.net>  D I have what you're looking for. Had to do it a couple of times so...  K The extract extracts a user and stores it in SYSUAF.TMP and RIGHTSLISTS.TMP L The MERGE reads these files (previously copied to node B) and inserts in the .DAT files.   	 Have fun! L (I think you have to define a logical APP for the directory where .TMP files are located)   Syltrem     < "Mike Price" <mike.price@littlewoods.co.uk> wrote in message# news:8p34if$p3n$1@nnrp1.deja.com... H > I need to swap some users from one VMS system to another. Creating theH > duplicate accounts is easy enough but does anyone know of a simple wayF > of getting the password on the new account to be the same as the old > account?? I > That is without writing a program - I know about the UAF calls and I'll C > do that if I need to - I was just wondering if there is something  > simpler that I have missed?? >  > TIA  >  > Mike >  > --D > All opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my
 > employer >  > ( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.      begin 666 uaf_extract.com = M)"$@0V5T=&4@<')O8^ED=7)E(&5X=')A:70@9'4@9FEC:&EE<B!365-5048N = M1$%4(&QE<R!U=&EL:7-A=&5U<G,@9'4@9W)O=7!E#0HD(2!D;VYNZ2!E;B!P = M87)A;>AT<F4-"B0A(% Q('!E=70@ZG1R93H@=6X@8VAI9F9R92!E;B!O8W1A = M;"!R97!RZ7-E;G1A;G0@=6X@54E#($=R;W5P#0HD(0D)('5N('5S97)N86UE = M#0HD#0HD($EN:70Z#0HD"5-A>3H]5W)I=&4@4UE3)$]55%!55 T*) E/;B!# = M;VYT<F]L7UD@=&AE;B!G;W1O($5N9%]0<F]C#0HD"4]N($5R<F]R('1H96X@ = M9V]T;R!%;F1?4')O8PT*) T*) E)9@E0,2 N97%S+B B(B!T:&5N($=O=&\@ = M3F]087)A;0T*) T*)"!/<&5N7T9I;&5S.@T*) E)9B!F)'-E87(H(D%04#I3X= M65-5048N5$U0(BD@+F5Q<RX@(B(-"B0)5&AE;@E"86-K=7 O:6=N;SUI;G1E = M<FQO8VL@4UE3)$-/34U/3CI;4UE315A%75-94U5!1BY$050@05!0.BHN5$U0a= M+TYO3&]G#0HD"0E!;F%L>7IE+U)-4R]&1$P@05!0.E-94U5!1BY435 -"B0)a= M"41E;&5T92].;T-O;F8O3F],;V<@05!0.E-94U5!1BY435 [*@T*) D)0W)E 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D)4V%Y("(E54%&7T585%)!0U0M = M22U.15=&24Q%+"!N97<@97AT<F%C=&EO;B!F:6QE(&9O<B!R:6=H=&QI<W0@:= M:7,@(BQF)'-E87(H(D%04#I224=(5%-,25-4+E1-4"(I#0HD"45L<V4)4V%Yo= M("(E54%&7T585%)!0U0M22U!4%!%3D0L(&%P<&5N9&EN9R!R:6=H=&QI<W0@w= M<F5C;W)D<R!T;R!E>&ES=&EN9R!E>'1R86-T:6]N(&9I;&4@(BQF)'-E87(Hl= M(D%04#I224=(5%-,25-4+E1-4"(I#0HD"45N9$EF#0HD"4]P96XO4F5A9"]3t= M:&%R92!)4DP@4UE3)%-94U1%33I224=(5%-,25-4+D1!5 T*) E/<&5N+U)Eh= M860O5W)I=&4@3U),($%04#I224=(5%-,25-4+E1-4 T*) T*)"!"96=I;CH-?= M"B0)268)9B1T>7!E*' Q*2 N97%S+B B24Y414=%4B(@(2!O;B!A('!A<W/In= M('5N(&-H:69F<F4@96X@<&%R86WH=')E#0HD"51H96X)4%]524-?1W)P7T]Cp= M=&%L(#T@4#$-"B0)"55)0U]'<G!?1&5C:6UA;" ]("5/)U!?54E#7T=R<%]/,= M8W1A; T*) D)54E#7T=R<%](97@@/2!F)&9A;R@B(3183"(L(%5)0U]'<G!?o= M1&5C:6UA;"D-"B0)"4=O<W5B"5=H;VQE7U5)0U]'<F]U< T*) E%;'-E"5!?l= M57-E<FYA;64@/2!0,0T*) D)1V]S=6(@4VEN9VQE7U5S97(-"B0)16YD268- = M"B0-"B0)1V]T;R!%;F1?4')O8PT*) T*) T*)"!7:&]L95]524-?1W)O=7 Z = M#0HD(%=H;VQE7U5)0U]'<F]U<%],;V]P.@T*) E296%D+T5N9#U7:&]L95]5a= M24-?1W)O=7!?16YD($E&(%)E8PT*) E/;B!787)N:6YG('1H96X@9V]T;R!7e= M:&]L95]524-?1W)O=7!?3&]O< DA($EL('D@82!U;B!R96-O<F0@=')O<"!L = M;VYG(&%U(&3I8G5T#0HD"55!1E]524-?1U)0(#T@9B1C=G-I*# L,38L9B1E = M>'1R*#,X+#(L<F5C*2D-"B0)268)54%&7U5)0U]'4E @+F5Q+B!524-?1W)Pa= M7T1E8VEM86P-"B0)5&AE;B )1V]S=6(@5W)I=&5?4F5C;W)D#0HD"45N9$EFn= M#0HD"4=O=&\@5VAO;&5?54E#7T=R;W5P7TQO;W -"B0@5VAO;&5?54E#7T=R/= M;W5P7T5N9#H-"B0)4F5T=7)N#0HD#0HD(%-I;F=L95]5<V5R.@T*) E296%Dg= M($E&(%)E8R]+97D])E!?57-E<FYA;64O26YD/3 O17)R;W(]4VEN9VQE7U5Sl= M97)?3F]T7T9O=6YD#0HD"4=O<W5B(%=R:71E7U)E8V]R9 T*) E';W1O(%-I = M;F=L95]5<V5R7T5N9 T*) T*)"!3:6YG;&5?57-E<E].;W1?1F]U;F0Z#0HDr= M"5-A>2 B)55!1E]%6%1204-4+44M3D]354-(55-%4BP@;F\@<W5C:"!U<V5R-= M(&9O=6YD(@T*)"!3:6YG;&5?57-E<E]%;F0Z#0HD"5)E='5R;@T*) T*)"!7(= M<FET95]296-O<F0Z#0HD"5-A>2!F)&5X='(H-"PS,2Q296,I#0HD(%=R:71E = M7U)E8V]R9%]5048Z#0HD"5=R:71E+U-Y;6)O;"!/1B!296,@+T5R<F]R/5=Rt= M:71E7U)E8V]R9%]5049?17)R#0HD(%=R:71E7U)E8V]R9%]23#H-"B0)54%&'= M7U5)0R ](&8D97AT<B@S-BPT+')E8RD-"B0)4F5A9"!)4DP@4DQ?4F5C+VL]g= M)E5!1E]524,@+TEN9#TP("]%<G)O<CU296%D7U)E8V]R9%]23%]%<G(-"B0)o= M5W)I=&4O4WEM8F]L($]23"!23%]296,O17)R;W(]5W)I=&5?4F5C;W)D7U),e= M7T5R<@T*)" )1V]T;R!7<FET95]296-O<F1?16YD#0HD(%=R:71E7U)E8V]R = M9%]5049?17)R.@T*) E3=&%T=7,@/2 D4U1!5%53#0HD"5-A>2 B17)R;W(@)= M=W)I=&EN9R!R96-O<F0@=&\@4UE354%&("T@(BP@9B1M97-S*%-T871U<RD-H= M"B0@"4=O=&\@5W)I=&5?4F5C;W)D7T5N9 T*)"!296%D7U)E8V]R9%]23%]%r= M<G(Z#0HD"5-T871U<R ]("135$%455,-"B0)4V%Y(")#86YN;W0@9FEN9"!I,= M9&5N=&EF:65R(&EN(%))1TA44TQ)4U0@+2 B+"!F)&UE<W,H4W1A='5S*0T*t= M)" )1V]T;R!7<FET95]296-O<F1?16YD#0HD(%=R:71E7U)E8V]R9%]23%]%e= M<G(Z#0HD"5-T871U<R ]("135$%455,-"B0)4V%Y(")%<G)O<B!W<FET:6YGs= M(')E8V]R9"!T;R!224=(5%-,25-4("T@(BP@9B1M97-S*%-T871U<RD-"B0@ = M"4=O=&\@5W)I=&5?4F5C;W)D7T5N9 T*)"!7<FET95]296-O<F1?16YD.@T* = M) E2971U<FX-"B0-"B0@3F]087)A;3H-"B0)4V%Y("(E54%&7T585%)!0U0Ma= M12U.3U!!4D%-+"!P87)A;65T97(@<F5Q=6ER960@+2!524,@9W)O=7 @:6X@g= M;V-T86P@;F]T871I;VXB#0HD"45X:70-"B0@16YD7U!R;V,Z#0HD"4-L;W-Eb= M+TYO3&]G($EF#0HD"4-L;W-E+TYO3&]G($]F#0HD"4-L;W-E+TYO3&]G($E2o! 63 T*) E#;&]S92].;TQO9R!/4DP-"@``d `e enda   begin 666 uaf_merge.comg= M)"$@0V]P:64@;&4@96YR96=I<W1R96UE;G1S(&1E<R!F:6-H:65R<R!365-5d= M048N1$%4(&5T(%))1TA44TQ)4U0N5$U0(&1A;G,@;&4-"B0A(&9I8VAI97)SB= M(&-O<G)E<W!O;F1A;G1S(&1A;G,@4UE3)%-94U1%33H-"B0-"B0@26YI=#H-I= M"B0)4V%Y.CU7<FET92!365,D3U544%54#0HD"4]N($-O;G1R;VQ?62!T:&5No= M(&=O=&\@16YD7U!R;V,-"B0)3VX@17)R;W(@=&AE;B!G;W1O($5N9%]0<F]Ci= M#0HD#0HD($]P96Y?1FEL97,Z#0HD"4EF(&8D<V5A<B@B05!0.E-94U5!1BY4a= M35 B*2 N97%S+B B(@T*) E4:&5N"5-A>2 B)55!1E]%6%1204-4+4DM3D]5-= M048L(&YO(&5X=')A8W1I;VX@9FEL92!F;W5N9"!F;W(@=7-E<B!A=71H;W)II= M>F%T:6]N("A!4% Z4UE354%&+E1-4"DB#0HD"45L<V4)4V%Y("(E54%&7T58 = M5%)!0U0M22U-15)'24Y'+"!M97)G:6YG('5S97(@875T:&]R:7IA=&EO;B!Re= M96-O<F1S(&EN("(L9B1S96%R*")!4% Z4UE354%&+E1-4"(I+" B('1O(%-9f= M4R1365-414TZ4UE354%&+D1!5"(-"B0)16YD268-"B0)3W!E;B]296%D($E5i= M048@05!0.E-94U5!1BY435 -"B0)(2!3:2!I;"!Y(&$@=6X@;F]M(&QO9VEQ = M=64L(&IE(&TG96X@<V5R<PT*) E/<&5N+U)E860O5W)I=&4O4VAA<F4@3U5!a= M1B G9B1P87)S92@B4UE354%&(BPB4UE3)%-94U1%33HN1$%4(BD-"B0-"B0)u= M268@9B1S96%R*")!4% Z4DE'2%133$E35"Y435 B*2 N97%S+B B(@T*) E4y= M:&5N"5-A>2 B)55!1E]%6%1204-4+4DM3D]224=42%-,25-4+"!N;R!E>'1R = M86-T:6]N(&9I;&4@9F]U;F0@9F]R('5S97(@<FEG:'1S("A!4% Z4DE'2%13j= M3$E35"Y435 I(@T*) E%;'-E"5-A>2 B)55!1E]%6%1204-4+4DM34521TE.D= M1RP@;65R9VEN9R!U<V5R(')I9VAT<R!R96-O<F1S(&EN("(L9B1S96%R*")!r= M4% Z4DE'2%133$E35"Y435 B*2P@(B!T;R!365,D4UE35$5-.E))1TA44TQ) = M4U0N1$%4(@T*) E%;F1)9@T*) E/<&5N+U)E860@25),($%04#I224=(5%-,i= M25-4+E1-4 T*) E/<&5N+U)E860O5W)I=&4O4VAA<F4@($]23"!365,D4UE3 = M5$5-.E))1TA44TQ)4U0N1$%4#0HD#0HD($)E9VEN.@T*) T*)"!-97)G95]5c= M048Z#0HD($UE<F=E7U5!1E],;V]P.@T*) E296%D+T5N9#U-97)G95]5049? = M16YD($E5048@4F5C#0HD"4=O<W5B(%=R:71E7U)E8V]R9 T*) E';W1O($UEw= M<F=E7U5!1E],;V]P#0HD($UE<F=E7U5!1E]%;F0Z#0HD"4=O=&\@16YD7U!Rn= M;V,-"B0-"B0@5W)I=&5?4F5C;W)D.@T*) E387D@9B1E>'1R*#0L,S$L4F5Cr= M*0T*)"!7<FET95]296-O<F1?54%&.@T*) E7<FET92]3>6UB;VP@3U5!1B!2w= M96,@+T5R<F]R/5=R:71E7U)E8V]R9%]5049?17)R#0HD(%=R:71E7U)E8V]Rt= M9%]23#H-"B0)54%&7U5)0R ](&8D97AT<B@S-BPT+')E8RD-"B0)4F5A9"!)l= M4DP@4DQ?4F5C+VL])E5!1E]524,@+TEN9#TP("]%<G)O<CU296%D7U)E8V]Rl= M9%]23%]%<G(-"B0)5W)I=&4O4WEM8F]L($]23"!23%]296,O17)R;W(]5W)I = M=&5?4F5C;W)D7U),7T5R<@T*)" )1V]T;R!7<FET95]296-O<F1?16YD#0HDi= M(%=R:71E7U)E8V]R9%]5049?17)R.@T*) E3=&%T=7,@/2 D4U1!5%53#0HDo= M"5-A>2 B17)R;W(@=W)I=&EN9R!R96-O<F0@=&\@4UE354%&("T@(BP@9B1Mu= M97-S*%-T871U<RD-"B0@"4=O=&\@5W)I=&5?4F5C;W)D7T5N9 T*)"!296%Dd= M7U)E8V]R9%]23%]%<G(Z#0HD"5-T871U<R ]("135$%455,-"B0)4V%Y(")#t= M86YN;W0@9FEN9"!I9&5N=&EF:65R(&EN(%))1TA44TQ)4U0@+2 B+"!F)&UEe= M<W,H4W1A='5S*0T*)" )1V]T;R!7<FET95]296-O<F1?16YD#0HD(%=R:71Em= M7U)E8V]R9%]23%]%<G(Z#0HD"5-T871U<R ]("135$%455,-"B0)4V%Y(")%t= M<G)O<B!W<FET:6YG(')E8V]R9"!T;R!224=(5%-,25-4("T@(BP@9B1M97-St= M*%-T871U<RD-"B0@"4=O=&\@5W)I=&5?4F5C;W)D7T5N9 T*)"!7<FET95]2 = M96-O<F1?16YD.@T*) E2971U<FX-"B0-"B0@16YD7U!R;V,Z#0HD"4-L;W-Ee= M+TYO3&]G($E5048-"B0)0VQO<V4O3F],;V<@3U5!1@T*) E#;&]S92].;TQO % :9R!)4DP-"B0)0VQO<V4O3F],;V<@3U),#0H`o `  end    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 00:15:23 GMTs- From: "nobody@nobody.com" <nobody@nobody.com> $ Subject: Re: DECSERVER 90m AND TCPIP* Message-ID: <39BC2415.48AAA853@nobody.com>   Thank you, That did the trick!!-   Michael Austin   Mike Tock wrote:  B > "Michael Austin" <michaelaustininc@hotmail.com> wrote in message' > news:39B99097.E2337F31@hotmail.com...rK > > This helped.... a little.  Thanks....   Now I need to figure out how to  > set up a remote printer H > > queue on the 90M using Telnet (without documentation...) because the > routers being used do nottM > > understand LAT.  Which is too bad because it is a much "thinner" protocolo
 > that TCPIP.o > >  > >  > > Michael Austin > > DBA Consultant.h > >  >nH > on the terminal server assuming you want to use port 4 on the terminal	 > server.w >t > define port 4 access remoteo > log port 4, > change telnet listener 2004 ports 4 enableD > change telnet listener 2004 ident "This funky reverse telnet port"0 > change telnet listener 2004 connections enable >w
 > from VMS > set up the queue. L > init/que reverse_que/proc=ucx$telnetsym /on=node::"10.10.10.10:2004"/start >rE > as long as you have the gateway settings on the terminal server set M > correctly you should be able to telnet directly to the port in question. ies > telnet 10.10.10.10 2004c > M > you get a blank line prompt but things you type on the screen will come out. > on the printer.) > N > if your printer is on another port change the 4 to what ever.  If it doesn'tH > work type playing with the telnet server settings for the port you areL > working with, I can't remember the syntax off hand, but there should be anM > <LF> from the terminal, NONE from the host, NONE to the terminal and <CRLF>f > to the host. > N > hope that helps. if you don't want to have the IP address in the que you canK > add a local host to the UCX database. so the que would say something like*  > reverse_que, node::"host:2004" >  > Cheers > Mike   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 19:50:58 +0100o- From: John Wisniewski <wisniewski@ticnet.com>eF Subject: FA: vaxstation 3100-48 loaded w/ vms 7.2 and layered productsO Message-ID: <67A29D46B3B81929.FAED477DB70F6985.26CEFCBB32257EB2@lp.airnews.net>n  = FA: vaxstation 3100-48 loaded w/ vms 7.2 and layered productso  G Includes crt, cables, software, everything. Just get your hobbyist PAKsh and go!i  @ http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=434030161   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:15:44 -0500.7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>hJ Subject: Re: FA: vaxstation 3100-48 loaded w/ vms 7.2 and layered products- Message-ID: <39BC4050.DC9313CF@earthlink.net>t   John Wisniewski wrote: > ? > FA: vaxstation 3100-48 loaded w/ vms 7.2 and layered products  > I > Includes crt, cables, software, everything. Just get your hobbyist PAKsm	 > and go!v > B > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=434030161  7 Y'guys should consider signing up for x.com's PayPal...-   Well, works for me, anyway...1   -- 0 David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/c  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 17:08:30 -0400h* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>! Subject: Re: LAT printer servers? - Message-ID: <39BBF84E.5DD76121@tsoft-inc.com>o   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Paul Repacholi wrote:p > >p9 > > Are there any LAT capable servers available out theree: > > now days? H-Ps support when asked about Jetdirects was1 > > "What's LAT?" From their networking expert...  > > 9 > > Oh, I do know about the terminal servers. Par port isi< > > whats needed. .ps bitmaps are not serial port fiendly at > > any speed! > 6 > Genuine DECservers come up quite frequently on eBay.  C If I've seen a 250, it's only once, and I'm not sure that happened.s  1 He's looking for LAT servers with PARALLEL ports.   1 I think the DECserver 250 had some, possibly not.:  : There was an Emulex server with I believe 1 parallel port.   Dave   -- a4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 19:08:26 -0400f2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>! Subject: Re: LAT printer servers?u7 Message-ID: <200009101908_MC2-B2D6-F99C@compuserve.com>t  J         The DECserver 250 has two parallel ports.  Unfortunately they are=  J Data Products ports rather than Centronic.  Great for some to the big DEC=  $ impact printers but very few others.A The H-P laser printers and most other printers these days use thew Centronics interface.s  & Message text written by David A Froble7 >> Genuine DECservers come up quite frequently on eBay.o  C If I've seen a 250, it's only once, and I'm not sure that happened.s  1 He's looking for LAT servers with PARALLEL ports.n  1 I think the DECserver 250 had some, possibly not.u  ; There was an Emulex server with I believe 1 parallel port.<n   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 18:33:56 -0500e7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>-! Subject: Re: LAT printer servers? - Message-ID: <39BC1A64.F2ED0350@earthlink.net>    David A Froble wrote:t >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > >n > > Paul Repacholi wrote:6 > > >-; > > > Are there any LAT capable servers available out there < > > > now days? H-Ps support when asked about Jetdirects was3 > > > "What's LAT?" From their networking expert...h > > >$; > > > Oh, I do know about the terminal servers. Par port isl> > > > whats needed. .ps bitmaps are not serial port fiendly at > > > any speed! > > 8 > > Genuine DECservers come up quite frequently on eBay. > E > If I've seen a 250, it's only once, and I'm not sure that happened.   E There have been some 250s. Not as frequent as the others, but they do, come up. Ya gotta be vigilant.  r3 > He's looking for LAT servers with PARALLEL ports.n > 3 > I think the DECserver 250 had some, possibly not.   D Yeah - they have 'em; but, as Richard Gilbert points out, they speak' DEC's flavor of Data Products parallel.i  r< > There was an Emulex server with I believe 1 parallel port.  G Yeah - the 2500s, usually seen as 2504: four serial ports, one parallel F that can run either Centronics or Data Products. Those do come up, but6 again, ya gotta be vigilant - and not afraid to spend!   --   David J. Dachteras dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.l   ------------------------------    Date: 10 Sep 2000 20:00:13 -0400/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson).! Subject: Re: LAT printer servers?f* Message-ID: <8ph7ad$dvg$1@lisa.gemair.com>  - In article <39BC1A64.F2ED0350@earthlink.net>,A6 David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote: >David A Froble wrote: >>   >> "David J. Dachtera" wrote:  >> > >> > Paul Repacholi wrote: >> > >< >> > > Are there any LAT capable servers available out there= >> > > now days? H-Ps support when asked about Jetdirects was 4 >> > > "What's LAT?" From their networking expert... >> > >< >> > > Oh, I do know about the terminal servers. Par port is? >> > > whats needed. .ps bitmaps are not serial port fiendly at  >> > > any speed!g >> >9 >> > Genuine DECservers come up quite frequently on eBay.  >> oF >> If I've seen a 250, it's only once, and I'm not sure that happened. >dF >There have been some 250s. Not as frequent as the others, but they do >come up. Ya gotta be vigilant.d > 4 >> He's looking for LAT servers with PARALLEL ports. >>  4 >> I think the DECserver 250 had some, possibly not. > E >Yeah - they have 'em; but, as Richard Gilbert points out, they speak ( >DEC's flavor of Data Products parallel. > = >> There was an Emulex server with I believe 1 parallel port.: >=H >Yeah - the 2500s, usually seen as 2504: four serial ports, one parallelG >that can run either Centronics or Data Products. Those do come up, but(7 >again, ya gotta be vigilant - and not afraid to spend!4 >E  C Xyplex used to make some parallel port/LAT servers in the MAXServer5A line, but searching www.nbase-xyplex.com just now doesn't turn up5 anything in their line now.)  A I seem to remember you could get a lot of terminal server for notXC much money, once-upon-a-time, from Xyplex.  I don't remember having1C any trouble with them, either.  I recall a 4 parallel port terminalP server configuration.0  A Boy, I wish whoever holds the LAT patents now (Compaq? Cabletron?8= expired?) would release them with the code to the Open Source8B community so we could put together some kickin' LAT access servers based on Linux/*BSD machines.<  > LAT is still good for some applications.  Think about it.  You@ put a Terminal Server behind your firewall and then connect thatB via serial ports to machines you _really_ want secure behind that.  F SSH into the Terminal Server, Change the passwords frequently, review G access on those LAT ports, hide the commands/utilities on the terminal (D server box that access the LAT ports and you have pretty convenient # access with pretty high security.  2  ? Really, in such a scenario, it's an _advantage_ that LAT isn't "; routable.  No chance it's going to leak out of your networkE for sniffing or spoofing.H  C And, darn it, LAT is just more network efficient than Telnet (maybeHB I'm living in the past and that doesn't matter much anymore).  I'mA sitting here and watching my send/receive lights blink with everyQA character I type.  I'm reasonably sure that TELNET makes a packetE" of every character I send.  Blech.     >--  >David J. Dachtera >dba DJE Systems >http://www.djesys.com/5 >0; >Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:!  >http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/ >)G >This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings  >is to be expected.4 >3A >Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.5 >2G >However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are( >strongly discouraged.   -Jordan Henderson8 jordan@greenapple.com2   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:39:30 -0400,* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>! Subject: Re: LAT printer servers?"- Message-ID: <39BC37D2.3C7873EA@tsoft-inc.com>l   Jordan Henderson wrote:1 > / > In article <39BC1A64.F2ED0350@earthlink.net>,!8 > David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote: > >David A Froble wrote: > >> > >> "David J. Dachtera" wrote:! > >> > > >> > Paul Repacholi wrote: > >> > >> > >> > > Are there any LAT capable servers available out there? > >> > > now days? H-Ps support when asked about Jetdirects was 6 > >> > > "What's LAT?" From their networking expert... > >> > >> > >> > > Oh, I do know about the terminal servers. Par port isA > >> > > whats needed. .ps bitmaps are not serial port fiendly at5 > >> > > any speed!# > >> >; > >> > Genuine DECservers come up quite frequently on eBay.4 > >>H > >> If I've seen a 250, it's only once, and I'm not sure that happened. > >;H > >There have been some 250s. Not as frequent as the others, but they do! > >come up. Ya gotta be vigilant.- > >46 > >> He's looking for LAT servers with PARALLEL ports. > >>6 > >> I think the DECserver 250 had some, possibly not. > >-G > >Yeah - they have 'em; but, as Richard Gilbert points out, they speak,* > >DEC's flavor of Data Products parallel.  K Yep, and having installed one 10+ years ago, I should have remembered that.!  ? > >> There was an Emulex server with I believe 1 parallel port.] > ><J > >Yeah - the 2500s, usually seen as 2504: four serial ports, one parallelI > >that can run either Centronics or Data Products. Those do come up, but.9 > >again, ya gotta be vigilant - and not afraid to spend!9 > >- > E > Xyplex used to make some parallel port/LAT servers in the MAXServer)C > line, but searching www.nbase-xyplex.com just now doesn't turn up" > anything in their line now.9 > C > I seem to remember you could get a lot of terminal server for not!E > much money, once-upon-a-time, from Xyplex.  I don't remember having E > any trouble with them, either.  I recall a 4 parallel port terminal- > server configuration.<  N I've never seen one, but set up the LAT ports for a customer several years agoP for a DEC product called a printserver.  Possibly these are still available.  It' might have been a single parallel port.-  C > Boy, I wish whoever holds the LAT patents now (Compaq? Cabletron?E? > expired?) would release them with the code to the Open Source9D > community so we could put together some kickin' LAT access servers > based on Linux/*BSD machines.!  O I'd guess DEC kept the LAT stuff, since in addition to the servers, it also ran M on the computers.  Maybe not.  If you're really interested in this stuff, whyEN not contact Compaq and determint the current status of LAT, and whether they'dO make it available.  They have little to lose today, and possibly much to gain. .L I don't think many or any of the LAT licensees are still making LAT terminalJ servers.  There are the terminal emulators that offer LAT as an extra cost" option.  never know until you ask.  @ > LAT is still good for some applications.  Think about it.  YouB > put a Terminal Server behind your firewall and then connect thatD > via serial ports to machines you _really_ want secure behind that. > G > SSH into the Terminal Server, Change the passwords frequently, reviewTH > access on those LAT ports, hide the commands/utilities on the terminalE > server box that access the LAT ports and you have pretty convenient3# > access with pretty high security.5 > @ > Really, in such a scenario, it's an _advantage_ that LAT isn't= > routable.  No chance it's going to leak out of your network3 > for sniffing or spoofing.] >1E > And, darn it, LAT is just more network efficient than Telnet (maybe1D > I'm living in the past and that doesn't matter much anymore).  I'mC > sitting here and watching my send/receive lights blink with every C > character I type.  I'm reasonably sure that TELNET makes a packet.$ > of every character I send.  Blech.  P I've always advised that LAT continue to be used, even when TELNET is available,H because of the simplicity and efficiency.  Being not routable has been aP problem, but it's nice to see how the 'problem' can become a strength.  Not sureN about the serial connection, when most systems are limited on serial ports.  IN guess if security is that important, that such a set-up could work.  Guess theN 'secure' system(s) could be on a private network, and have additional terminal, servers to accept the incoming serial lines.   Dave   -- <4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 04:36:11 GMT!( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>! Subject: Re: LAT printer servers?;' Message-ID: <G0pGsB.GIH@spcuna.spc.edu>0  , David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:E > If I've seen a 250, it's only once, and I'm not sure that happened.1 >%3 > I think the DECserver 250 had some, possibly not.2  J   Two. For Dataproducts printers (LP11 emulation). Note that the LP11 specI says that NULs don't go through, which is a pain if you're sending binary-H code. The DS250 does pass NULs. The real LP11 doesn't, though perhaps itJ could be hacked to do so (I did a hack on a Wespercorp DLP11 once to allow this).  K   I have 2 working DS250's here if the original poster wants to make a ser-  ious offer.:  K   Most shops have switched over to TCP/IP printing. We use GrayMatter Soft-oL ware's ScriptServer. DEC/Compaq offer a product (DCPS, I think). Some of the4 TCP/IP stacks let you configure raw TCP/IP printing.  - 	Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.comh5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USAu   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 04:41:28 GMTl( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>! Subject: Re: LAT printer servers? ' Message-ID: <G0pH14.GJr@spcuna.spc.edu>   1 Jordan Henderson <jordan@lisa.gemair.com> writes: @ > [...] so we could put together some kickin' LAT access servers > based on Linux/*BSD machines.a  C   You mean like this?: http://linux-decnet.sourceforge.net/lat.htmls  - 	Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com25         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USA    ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 05:01:05 GMTn( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>! Subject: Re: LAT printer servers?c' Message-ID: <G0pHxt.H5A@spcuna.spc.edu>s  , David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:Q > I'd guess DEC kept the LAT stuff, since in addition to the servers, it also ran O > on the computers.  Maybe not.  If you're really interested in this stuff, whyiP > not contact Compaq and determint the current status of LAT, and whether they'dQ > make it available.  They have little to lose today, and possibly much to gain.  N > I don't think many or any of the LAT licensees are still making LAT terminalL > servers.  There are the terminal emulators that offer LAT as an extra cost$ > option.  never know until you ask.  C   DEC handed LAT licensing over to Meridian Technology Corporation:.6 (http://www.meridiantc.com or http://www.meridian.com)  L   Their current web site doesn't mention anything about OEM license pricing.L They were still doing it in 1990, though - in www.meridian.com/PR_Cisco.html	 they say:-  !  "St. Louis, MO, March 30, 1990 - O Meridian Technology Corporation, Digital's LAT licensing agent, announced that 1H Cisco Systems, Inc. has acquired a Digital LAT Technology License and a * Meridian SuperLATT Software License. [...]  N By executing Digital's LAT Technology License with Meridian, Cisco has gained O the right to use Digital's patented LAT technology as part of Cisco's family of I terminal servers. Under terms of the agreement, Cisco received a copy of -N Digital's LAT protocol specification as well as LAT and MOP codes for Cisco's N use. A complete and compliant implementation of the LAT protocol requires the " specification and protocol codes."  L   If I'm remembering right, one of the Meridian principals used to be on the DECUS Board of Directors.l  4   Originally, the DEC contact for LAT licensing was:     Robert Schleeleinv   Digital Equipment Corp.b   550 King Street (LKG2-1/X2)t   Littleton, MA 01460-1289   Ph: 508-486-7017     FAX 508-486-7417  J   but as far back as 1991, he was saying "Contact Don Hirsh of Meridian at 314-532-7708".  ;   These names and numbers are probably not good any longer.   - 	Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.coms5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USAS   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 14:09:35 -0400p2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger). Subject: Re: Off-Topic: DS10 Hardware questionL Message-ID: <rdeininger-1009001409350001@user-2ivea3o.dialup.mindspring.com>  Y In article <srj76cbjljn31@corp.supernews.com>, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> wrote:<    L > I have not seen any USB devices that I have any interest in that are lowerL > cost than their equivalent that plugs into the more traditional interfaces > that are on the box.  H It has been mentioned recently (by Hoff?) that support for USB keyboardsL and mice would allow multiple users per box.  Current hardware only supportsG one keyboard/mouse per hardware port, which generally means one of each I per system.  For low-speed devices like these, the ability to daisy-chain   USB allows a lot of flexibility.  E I can think of several places where a multi-seat workstation would beoG more useful than a multi-head one.  And being able to choose the numbers3 of seats and heads on the fly would be even better.t  H BTW, I'm pretty sure the USB on our DPWs is also not supported.  But I'd2 like the DMA to the IDE CD-ROM to get fixed first.   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com2   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 16:30:16 -0400o5 From: Forrest Kenney <Forrest.Kenney@compaq.com.doom>-. Subject: Re: Off-Topic: DS10 Hardware question/ Message-ID: <39BBEF58.FD6C8392@compaq.com.doom>"  J         The firmware support was removed for technical reasons only one of which I can say anythingH about.  The hardware was not reporting device unplugs from the root hub. If no activity was ongoingF to the device when this occured the O.S. knew nothing about the device removal.  Yes we had wayswG to work around this one but add in other hardware problems and the facth that there was no clearsJ mandate for USB support the hardware team decided the best thing to do was disable it.  I was not a* fan of this decision but I understand why.  I     VMS had released a USB demonstration kit about a year ago.  As far ass I know almost nobodyG had installed or used it.  I had support for a single printer and modeme and for hubs.  We are working-B on support for keyboards, mice, up to a full 127 devices the limit" supported on a single USB bus.  WeI are also looking at USB mass storage devices.  Understand that even if weB supply a driver modems ortJ mass storage that does not mean that any generic device will work.  We add support for devices that we C need and that confrom to the standards defined by the USB standardso communtity.  Many vendorssF choose to produce devices that do not confrom to these open standards.  I     Finally it is to early to talk about schedule, or exact commitment to  any capability.  Schedules andH priorities change.  Yes USB opens the possibilty for Multi-Seat graphics support but I would not expect4 to see that in the first release of the USB support.     Forrest Kenney OpenVMS    ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 13:57:48 +1200o9 From: "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@nnnoospam.met.co.nz>r Subject: Re: Reliable backups 3 Message-ID: <8WWu5.13950$cr3.368992@ozemail.com.au>    not necessarily'    B I guess that our directory structure is the most important aspect.  D We have a mixture of rms files/1000's of little text files, and some oracle/rdb databases.-   It is only about 10gb all up.      Antony        8 "Dave Pampreen" <davepampreen@home.com> wrote in message5 news:EvYt5.31419$QW4.389061@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com... H > Do all of your files have to be backed up from the exact same point in time?w. > Are you using a database or just text files? >e > Dave >e >g< > "SysAdmin" <djesys.nospam@fsi.net.mapson> wrote in message* > news:39B678AC.3709FF98@fsi.net.mapson... > > Antony Wardle wrote: > > > F > > > A vendor is pushing us away from host based shadowing, and doing@ > > > hardware mirroring. How do you then get a good backup withF > > > no downtime involved. (ie not kicking off the users and stopping
 > everything)3 > > > @ > > > they though that you could do controller snapshot backups.J > > > How would you then be able to to retrieve a single file of a backup? > > >AF > > > We have no downtime window, and I guess that we are not the only people > > > in this situation. > > > $ > > > How are other people doing it? > > >P > > > Cheers Antony  > >>C > > The HSZ controllers can be commanded from a batch job using the>I > > (currently unsupported) SET HOST/SCSI command and the HSZTERM$SCSIPADTE > > program which facilitates it. You can sometime find this on oldert
 > > CONDISTs.v > >PG > > HSZTERM accepts input from image data in a .COM file. Some creativea2 > > hackery can yield a highly automated solution. > >eC > > The HSJ controllers can be commanded from a batch job using theyC > > unsupported (unsupportable?) freeware HSDSA_SCRIPT program fromsJ > > Digi/paq. I'm not sure if it's available on the Q's freeware site, but. > > you can find it for both VAX and Alpha at: > > ' > > http://www.djesys.com/freeware/vms/0 > >s& > > I don't yet have a link to it from+ > > http://www.djesys.com/vms/freeware.htmle > >aI > > HSDSA is a PASCAL pgrogram that appears to not have been written by arH > > VMS-literate coder. You may be best off to get the HSDSA.ZIP archiveF > > from the above link and pay close attention to the README that you > > should find therein. > >mG > > HSDSA does *NOT* accept input from image data. As I said, the coder H > > appears to not have been VMS-literate. Still, I hacked up a BUNCH ofE > > automation around it almost two years ago, and that code is stilliF > > running today at a former site as part of their backup automation. > >sL > > In either case, you *WILL* still need to "quiesce" your application (getL > > it to close its files) and turn off write-back cache on the units beforeK > > you split members off of mirror sets. Remember to turn write-back cachea: > > back on after you split each (group of) mirror-set(s). > > G > > This is about as close as you can come to "ensuring" a good backup,s
 > > AFAIK. > >L: > > ...but then, same holds true of splitting shadow-sets. > >  > > David J. Dachterau >  >m   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 18:05:54 GMTt3 From: "MrSignor" <MrSignor@nospam_bellatlantic.net>S! Subject: VAX 4000/90 and 4000/90At7 Message-ID: <64Qu5.3378$_F3.142927@typhoon1.ba-dsg.net>t   Hi, D     What is the difference between a VAXSTATION 4000/90 + 4000/90A ?     VUPS + TPS seem the same  E     If there is a URL that details the difference, please indicate itn       Thanks inadvance   -FredT   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 17:20:06 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>% Subject: Re: VAX 4000/90 and 4000/90An, Message-ID: <39BBFB06.1D92B64@tsoft-inc.com>  L There were multiple versions of the N-VAX chip used in a variety of systems,O including the VAXstation 4000 models 90, 90A and 96.  From memory, and that canpM be questionable, the models 90, 90A, and 96 were similar to the MicroVAX 3100DM models 90, 95, and 96/98.  For the MicroVAX, the VUPs were 24, 32, and 40.  IaN believe the VAXstations were rated a bit higher, possibly 32, 40, and 48.  NotO sure why, unless they had the clock turned up a bit more, or they were counting M the addition of the graphics adapters.  In any case, the 90A is significantlyr more powerful than the 90.  H Me, I have a 90, and am waiting for some 96s to hit the used market at aH reasonable (low) price.  Regardless, I don't have anything that uses theM capability of the 90, unless I am too impatient to wait several seconds for au compile.   Dave   MrSignor wrote:s >  > Hi,BF >     What is the difference between a VAXSTATION 4000/90 + 4000/90A ? >     VUPS + TPS seem the same > G >     If there is a URL that details the difference, please indicate itA >  >     Thanks inadvance >  > -Fredt   -- o4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 15:08:45 -0700r1 From: Vance Haemmerle <vance@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US>t% Subject: Re: VAX 4000/90 and 4000/90As3 Message-ID: <39BBA3FD.6F00D836@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US>t   MrSignor wrote:y  F >     What is the difference between a VAXSTATION 4000/90 + 4000/90A ? >     VUPS + TPS seem the same  H   From DEC's Systems and Options catalog and DECdirect catalogs, I found the following information:  B System                      MHz       SpecMark89    Estimated VUPs  ; VaxStation 4000/90           72          32.8            42y= VaxStation 4000/90A          83          38.5            48.7D; VaxStation 4000/96          100          45.6             ?t  
              -- Vance Haemmerlee vance@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.UST   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 22:28:19 GMT + From: Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com.nospam>l% Subject: Re: VAX 4000/90 and 4000/90Ai0 Message-ID: <39BC0B24.12122464@wi.rr.com.nospam>  - Where are you getting your VUPs numbers from?a1 IIRC, the 90A is a smidgen more powerful than theo1 90 and the model 96 is the most powerful model ofi7 them all.  But, I've got three VAXstation 4000s at worku. that we upgraded with the Nemonix motherboards and they *really* scream.g   -Scott   MrSignor wrote:o   > Hi, F >     What is the difference between a VAXSTATION 4000/90 + 4000/90A ? >     VUPS + TPS seem the same >eG >     If there is a URL that details the difference, please indicate its >  >     Thanks inadvance >t > -Fredu   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 03:36:36 GMTl% From: dpm@myths.com (David P. Murphy) . Subject: Re: Why I hate C on VMS, reason #9321. Message-ID: <srokq4gact635@news.supernews.com>  R In vmsnet.internals Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- <system@sendspamhere.org> wrote:  7 > I added a new logging feature to print out all of thesL > image locations (base and shared) to the log file (similar to an SDA> SHOWL > PROCESS/IMAGE) so that I know where all of the pieces are in memory shouldE > I need to look at a process exception from a customer in the field.r   Oh, you used my HOLMES code?   ok dpm  -- d3 David P. Murphy          http://www.myths.com/~dpm/ - systems programmer        ftp://ftp.myths.comyC                          mailto:dpm@myths.com            (personal) C COGITO ERGO DISCLAMO     mailto:dmurphy@ac-tech.com          (work)i   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.508 ************************