1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 13 Sep 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 512       Contents:$ RE: Adding 2nd bootserver to cluster$ Re: Adding 2nd bootserver to cluster5 Re: AS4100 w/VMS 7.2-1 console support for DE602-AA?? 5 Re: AS4100 w/VMS 7.2-1 console support for DE602-AA?? 5 Re: AS4100 w/VMS 7.2-1 console support for DE602-AA?? # Re: CHARON-VAX images? - ot warning # Re: CHARON-VAX images? - ot warning # Re: CHARON-VAX images? - ot warning # Re: CHARON-VAX images? - ot warning # Re: CHARON-VAX images? - ot warning 
 Compaq XP1000  Disk init error message ! Re: File Format from SET HOST/LOG # Re: Is there any new Alpha CPU out?  Re: LAT printer servers? Re: LAVC and security  Re: LAVC and security  Re: LAVC and security  Memory channel, Need help with SET HOST in VMS Command File.0 Re: Need help with SET HOST in VMS Command File.0 Re: Need help with SET HOST in VMS Command File.; Re: OpenVMS and TCPIP version and support od "Dual path IP" ; Re: OpenVMS and TCPIP version and support od "Dual path IP" ; Re: OpenVMS and TCPIP version and support od "Dual path IP" 3 Re: OpenVMS filesystem reader for MicroSoft Windows 3 Re: OpenVMS filesystem reader for MicroSoft Windows  Searching for file dates!  Re: Searching for file dates!  Searching for file dates!  Searching for file dates!   Show Current PC Noninteractively$ Re: Show Current PC Noninteractively! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! RE: Sun Hardware problems persist  Re: UCX on VMS question " Re: Upgrade to DECset 12.4/CMS 4.1 Re: using / in the symbol . VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharing2 Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharing2 Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharing2 Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharing2 Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharing2 Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharing2 Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharing2 Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharing2 Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharing2 Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharing, Your "Work from Home" Info Pack Has Arrived! [JAVA] Adobe Acrobat Viewer   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 15:54:14 -0300 1 From: "Boyle, Darren" <boyledj@bankofbermuda.com> - Subject: RE: Adding 2nd bootserver to cluster K Message-ID: <9F664D538536D411BD3200508B6FF01A8AEAEA@bdant027.bda.bobda.com>   5 EXPECTED_VOTES can be left without causing a problem.   K You can run the other cluster members (booting from the boot server's disk) I regardless of the other boot server BUT dependant on Quorum.  ( to obtain I more help on this issue $ ANAL /SYS  then SHOW CLUSTER at the SDA> prompt ) and post the output - alternatively, RTM)   J Yes you can use the "Duplicate system disk" option to copy the system disk4 over once the other server is booted as a satellite. - Darren   > ----------= > From: 	Horst Drechsel[SMTP:ai05@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de] , > Sent: 	Tuesday, September 12, 2000 8:50 PM > To: 	Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com, > Subject: 	Adding 2nd bootserver to cluster > 	 > Hi all,  > B >    currently we maintain a VMSCluster consisting of a bootserverH > providing VOTES=1, all satellites having VOTES=0. Now we want to add aE > second new bootserver scheduled to become the new cluster server at 
 > later time.  > I >    When invoking CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM we chose option 1 ("Add new cluster I > member"), and say this should become a bootserver, which probably means K > that the new node will contribute VOTES=1 as well. So we have two cluster C > members (current and future server) with each providing VOTES=1.  G > EXPECTED_VOTES is currently set to 1 for all members. Are we urged to G > increment EXPECTED_VOTES to 2, or can we leave the actual value of 1? H > Will this give the possibility to run the cluster satellites with only' > one of the two voting members online?  > I >    There is another option in CLUSTER_CONFIG "Duplicate system disk" or  > so, L > to copy the current cluster server's system disk to the new member. Can we > use J > this option to transfer the current system to our expected new server?   >  >    Thanks, >             Horst  >  >  > -- >   L > ************************************************************************** > **+ >   Horst Drechsel                           >   Dr. Remeis Observatory% > drechsel@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de = >   Astronomical Institute                             Phone:  > +49-951-95222-15= >   University Erlangen-Nuernberg                        Fax:  > +49-951-95222-22, >   Sternwartstr.7, D-96049 Bamberg, Germany >   L > ************************************************************************** > ** >  >     F **********************************************************************C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and J may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.M They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they L are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, B please notify the sender immediately and then delete this message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copying  of this message is prohibited.   Bank of Bermuda F **********************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:20:03 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)- Subject: Re: Adding 2nd bootserver to cluster L Message-ID: <rdeininger-1209002020030001@user-2ivea28.dialup.mindspring.com>  t In article <009F007B.21E42433.8@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de>, Horst Drechsel <ai05@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de> wrote:  	 > Hi all,  > B >    currently we maintain a VMSCluster consisting of a bootserverH > providing VOTES=1, all satellites having VOTES=0. Now we want to add aE > second new bootserver scheduled to become the new cluster server at 
 > later time.  > I >    When invoking CLUSTER_CONFIG.COM we chose option 1 ("Add new cluster I > member"), and say this should become a bootserver, which probably means K > that the new node will contribute VOTES=1 as well. So we have two cluster C > members (current and future server) with each providing VOTES=1.    H You might consider giving your current boot server 2 votes instead of 1,4 and let the new boot server have the default 1 vote.  C This way, your expected votes will be 3 and quorum will be 2.  Your L cluster can remain happy with the old server present and the new one absent.  I If you ever want to interchange the roles of the two servers, first lower I one from 2 votes to 1, reboot, and then raise the other from 1 vote to 2. I If you do it in this order, your expected votes never goes up to 4, which  would make your quorum go to 3.   G Two boot nodes, each with 1 vote, results in quorum being 2.  If either / nodes leaves the cluster, you will lose quorum.     G > EXPECTED_VOTES is currently set to 1 for all members. Are we urged to G > increment EXPECTED_VOTES to 2, or can we leave the actual value of 1? H > Will this give the possibility to run the cluster satellites with only' > one of the two voting members online?   E No, the connection manager will effectively raise expected votes to 2 G as soon the second vote appears.  (Or maybe it only raises quorum to 2; I I'm forgetting the details.)  In any case, if you have 2 servers with one A vote each, you'll need both in the cluster or you'll lose quorum.   G The unsymmetric scheme outlined above lets your cluster stay happy with C only 1 of the servers present, but you have to decide which is the  E important server ahead of time.  If you want to stay up with _either_ E of the two servers available, you'll either need a 3rd voting node or M a quorum disk.  The quorum disk only makes sense if you have a shared storage G bus.  If the quorum disk is only connected to one machine, the standard I advice is to get rid of it and give its vote to the machine.  Then you're + effectively back to the scheme I described.   A You could a satellite a vote, but since it can't boot itself, you I would be back to needing at least two machines up to get quorum.  I don't  like that method myself.  G It's all in Guidlines for Cluster Configuration, but it does take a few  readings to make it all clear.   --   Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------   Date: 12 Sep 2000 11:42:40 PDTT From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515)> Subject: Re: AS4100 w/VMS 7.2-1 console support for DE602-AA??3 Message-ID: <bQCwhyFuytFf@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>   7 In article <8plhla$nbu$5@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>,  9     	hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:   A >   For DE602-related information, please take a look at the URL:  > N >     http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/options/as4100/as4100_3x-de602-aa.html > J >   In particular, the SRM minimum version requirement for this widget is I >   V5.6-3, with V5.8-2 looking to be the current firmware release.  See:  > J >     ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/Alpha/firmware/readmes/as4x00.html  A         Thanks a bunch, Hoff!  (And everyone else who replied :-)                -Ken --  M  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Edu :  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924:  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515N  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------B  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:18:26 GMT 8 From: Veli =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=F6rkk=F6?= <korkko@decus.fi>> Subject: Re: AS4100 w/VMS 7.2-1 console support for DE602-AA??( Message-ID: <39BE7296.ACE5D4CB@decus.fi>  C You would be better off with later versio of firmware. Get to V5.7. ? Now the EIx0_MODE and other EI* environment variables will only ? show up once you have the DE602 card installed. But only if if  $ the firmware also supports the card.  > I know one customer with two DE602 on two instances on aGS160,@ two DE600 on ES40 and yet another with DE602 on DS20. I declined; to put DE602 on an ALphaServer 2100 since there clearly the @ firmware does not support DE6*. I instead got two DE500 for that case.   = I would say that DE6* is just fine on an Alphaserver 4100 but < you need the required firmware version. With V5.7 you should be on safe side.     _veli   9 "Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515" wrote:  > J >         We have a pair of Alphaserver  4100 5/400's whose PCI busses areJ >     "full".   For that and a few other reasons, I'm replacing the  DE500J >     single-port 10/100 Ethernet adapter in each with a DE602-AA, gettingJ >     us a pair of 10/100 ports in a single PCI slot.  So far so good, the3 >     parts are due on site in a couple of weeks...  > J >         We're running VMS/Alpha 7.2-1  with  all applicable VMS721 ECO'sJ >     so  the  DE602's are supported by VMS.  However, the VMS  7.2-1  New3 >     Features and Release Notes says of the DE602,  > E >         "OpenVMS displays these devices as EIx0 devices, where x is E >         the controller's unit letter.  The device drivers for these C >         devices are SYS$EIDRIVER.EXE for the run-time environment 1 >         and SYS$EIBTDRIVER.EXE for LAN booting.  > F >         The SRM console provides an environment variable for settingD >         the mode of operation.  The variable is EIx0_MODE, where xF >         is the controller's unit letter.  Only newer Alpha platforms7 >         will provide console support for these NICs."  > J >     We have Console Firmware  5.5-5  loaded  on  the AS4100's and a SHOWJ >     command  lists  only  EWx0_MODE variables, no  EIx0_MODE  variables.J >     I've been using the EWA0_MODE set to FastFD  for  the  DE500's.   It0 >     looks like I can't do that with the DE602. >  >         So three questions:  > B >          1) What  constitutes  a  "new  Alpha",  that  is, whichB >             Alphas   support  the  EIx0_MODE  variables  in  the >             console? > B >          2) Will  a  subsequent  console  firmware  release, sayB >             coinciding  with  the VMS 7.3 release,  support  the" >             DE602 on the AS4100? > B >          3) Am I correct that I'll need to set the EIA0 and EIB0B >             (or whatever letters they  come  up  with) to FastFDB >             using LANCP?  Are there any gotcha's in setting this >             up?  > J >         I'd like to hear from anyone  who is successfully using DE602's, >     especially in an AS4100. >  >         Thanks, Ken  > --O >  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Edu < >  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924< >  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515P >  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------D >  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Sep 2000 12:52:05 PDTT From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515)> Subject: Re: AS4100 w/VMS 7.2-1 console support for DE602-AA??3 Message-ID: <bQ$3pqC7WkA7@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>   ) In article <39BE7296.ACE5D4CB@decus.fi>,  ?     	Veli =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=F6rkk=F6?= <korkko@decus.fi> writes: E > You would be better off with later versio of firmware. Get to V5.7. A > Now the EIx0_MODE and other EI* environment variables will only A > show up once you have the DE602 card installed. But only if if  & > the firmware also supports the card.  H         Thanks Veli.  I'll try to get updated firmware before installing     the DE602's.           -Ken --  M  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Edu :  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924:  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515N  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------B  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 21:02:23 GMT % From: hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net> , Subject: Re: CHARON-VAX images? - ot warning/ Message-ID: <39BE9A07.D67815F@bellatlantic.net>   E Dave Froble's last comment on uV and Alphas makes me need to ask this A question, I think I know the answer but I have been away from VMS & for a few years so, laugh if you want:D Can you cluster alphas and vaxen? I have 11 uVIIs/31/34/35/3600s and? 4 alphas.  I have netbsd on them all but picked up the hobbyist * vms for each, and was wondering....hmmmmm. thanks bob    ------------------------------    Date: 12 Sep 2000 23:04:41 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER), Subject: Re: CHARON-VAX images? - ot warning* Message-ID: <39be9a69$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  W In article <39BE9A07.D67815F@bellatlantic.net>, hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net> writes: E >Can you cluster alphas and vaxen? I have 11 uVIIs/31/34/35/3600s and @ >4 alphas.  I have netbsd on them all but picked up the hobbyist+ >vms for each, and was wondering....hmmmmm.   ' Sure. This is an OPSYS and not M$ crap. & Welcome to the wonderful world of VMS.   --  < Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888 < FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netF <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 00:20:14 GMT % From: hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net> , Subject: Re: CHARON-VAX images? - ot warning0 Message-ID: <39BEC868.E2757105@bellatlantic.net>   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: > Y > In article <39BE9A07.D67815F@bellatlantic.net>, hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net> writes: G > >Can you cluster alphas and vaxen? I have 11 uVIIs/31/34/35/3600s and B > >4 alphas.  I have netbsd on them all but picked up the hobbyist- > >vms for each, and was wondering....hmmmmm.  > ) > Sure. This is an OPSYS and not M$ crap.S( > Welcome to the wonderful world of VMS.   Nice to be back!!d bobs >  > --> > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651= > Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888n> > FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH > <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANJ > A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"P > "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:52:09 -0500n7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>d, Subject: Re: CHARON-VAX images? - ot warning- Message-ID: <39BECFB9.3A4752F7@earthlink.net>T   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: > Y > In article <39BE9A07.D67815F@bellatlantic.net>, hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net> writes:lG > >Can you cluster alphas and vaxen? I have 11 uVIIs/31/34/35/3600s andnB > >4 alphas.  I have netbsd on them all but picked up the hobbyist- > >vms for each, and was wondering....hmmmmm.  > ) > Sure. This is an OPSYS and not M$ crap.d( > Welcome to the wonderful world of VMS.  H He's right! VMS is a REAL, commercial-grade operating system, as opposed$ to Micro$hit's point-and-click toys.  H ...and yes, mixed-architecture clusters do work. Just be careful how youD mix OpenVMS versions. Some play nicer together than others, and some won't play together at all.d  P > "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   Amen to that, Bro!   --   David J. DachteraI dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/M  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.M   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 02:06:29 GMTr% From: hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net> , Subject: Re: CHARON-VAX images? - ot warning0 Message-ID: <39BEE14F.62D33595@bellatlantic.net>   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: >  > Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: > >4[ > > In article <39BE9A07.D67815F@bellatlantic.net>, hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net> writes:eI > > >Can you cluster alphas and vaxen? I have 11 uVIIs/31/34/35/3600s and0D > > >4 alphas.  I have netbsd on them all but picked up the hobbyist/ > > >vms for each, and was wondering....hmmmmm.b > >g+ > > Sure. This is an OPSYS and not M$ crap. * > > Welcome to the wonderful world of VMS. > J > He's right! VMS is a REAL, commercial-grade operating system, as opposed& > to Micro$hit's point-and-click toys. > J > ...and yes, mixed-architecture clusters do work. Just be careful how youF > mix OpenVMS versions. Some play nicer together than others, and some > won't play together at all.   < So, a straight 7.2 setup, on both families should be great!!
 thanks again!m bob2   > R > > "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998 >  > Amen to that, Bro! >  > -- > David J. Dachteras > dba DJE Systems  > http://www.djesys.com/ > < > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/m > H > This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings > is to be expected. > B > Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression. > H > However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are > strongly discouraged.e   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:35:40 GMT  From: win2x@home.com Subject: Compaq XP1000) Message-ID: <8plpha$vji$1@nnrp1.deja.com>E  8 I have a factory sealed Compaq XP1000 Alpha Workstation, model #380406-002p Located in Dallash Retails for over $9000.00n
 Make offer Thanks,v Rogere    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.O   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 08:55:01 +0200v+ From: "h h  williams" <hhwill@global.co.za>   Subject: Disk init error message- Message-ID: <8pn3jm$1lt$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>   J Im trying to INIT a 2.1 gb SCSI disk on a  vintage VS3100/VMS 5.4 (DKB0:),D and get the message INIT-F-CLUSTER 'unsuitable cluster factor'.  Any pointers anyone?   Hansell Williams   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:18:25 GMT 8 From: Veli =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=F6rkk=F6?= <korkko@decus.fi>* Subject: Re: File Format from SET HOST/LOG( Message-ID: <39BE7094.845953BC@decus.fi>   Would5   $ edit/teco sethost.logr <esc><esc>ex  
 do the trick?    _veli*  ! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:* > M > Having logged a VMS install earlier today using SET HOST/LOG 0 and then SET*K > HOST/DTE to go from a VAXstation to the serial port on an Alpha using thedK > TTA2: port on the VAXstation, I've now got a file with lots of CRLF pairssI > and with lines that were all nice and neat on the original screen splitn& > over multiple lines in the log file. > Like, for example :o >  > >>>a > s  > hh > oe >  > dp > e  > va > <CR> > <LF> > di > ka0.0.0.2000.0 DKA0e >  >     Seagate ST32550N > ? > What I'd like to do is to tidy the file up so that it gives :t > 
 > >>> sho devi+ > dka0.0.0.2000.0     DKA0 Seagate ST32550N* > H > so that I do not have to edit the individual lines before printing the > stuff out. >  > What should I be doing?0 >  > Steve.   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Sep 2000 22:04:09 -0400/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)9, Subject: Re: Is there any new Alpha CPU out?* Message-ID: <8pmnap$28q$1@lisa.gemair.com>  * In article <39BE4118.758BC214@uk.sun.com>,D Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: >Jordan Henderson wrote: >i, >> In article <39BE1F7C.2B2B7D4@uk.sun.com>, >>@ >> >So in reality Compaq now has two TPC-C numbers one is fasterJ >> >than the other but for the bulk of users the slower of the two numbers" >> >is the one that they will use. >> > >>C >> In reality, how many customers can get anywhere _near_ publishedsA >> TPC-C numbers in their real-world applications?  Almost nobodyOC >> takes the care and attention to tune and configure the way those B >> benchmark systems are.  In the real world, requirements are too< >> fluid, configurations dictated more by delivery dates and3 >> project schedules to produce ideal environments.o >> >c= >Well done you got there. You see thats the whole point TPC-Ce? >represents a pinnacle of performance for OLTP which in general > >real applications don't acheive. You only need to look at the= >TPC-C and Oracle applications benchmark results to see this.t > < >This is the reason why the OPS in a box scheme used for the9 >GS320 benchmark is such a pointless excercise because it ; >magnifies the ratio of what you can acheive with TPC-C and 7 >what you shoould expect to get with real applications.l >   8 You're a real piece of work.  You have been lecturing us9 on how TPC benchmarks show the REAL story (not CPU speed,,8 or floating point or anything else) and now, when Compaq9 produces such a benchmark that is world-beating, you pick  at it for some detail.  6 As I said before, if there's some failing in the TPC-C7 benchmark, please, go argue it with the TPC, but leave p7 us alone.  We're tired of your shifting claims and yourt tireless spinning.  : >This is because most people either can't use OPS in a box8 >or won't for solid reasons to do with skills costs etc. >y  7 Gee.  I guess people who want world beating performancew$ can't be expected to pay for it...    < Of course, if customers want real low-cost price/performance8 wining DBMS performance that is relatively easy to field6 and inexpensive to operate, then they might go with a 8 Wintel solution.  There are different prices to pay, but; these are the kinds of solutions for people who find Oraclen Parallel Server so frightening.r  3 Good thing that Compaq can help them out with this.    >>H >> >I say will use because I know that many Sequent customers completelyQ >> >disregarded their TPC-C number because they realised that it was inapplicableg >> >to their environment.o >> > >>F >> Specifically, which Sequent customers?  Is this just a lie that you/ >> pulled from nowhere or can you back this up?n >> >a' >One2One in the UK is one good example.r >d >i >Regards >Andrew Harrison >Enterprise IT Architect >  >e >2   -Jordan HendersonT jordan@greenapple.comS   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:32:00 GMTR( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>! Subject: Re: LAT printer servers?F' Message-ID: <G0sGxC.7AF@spcuna.spc.edu>e  7 Paul Repacholi <prep@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> writes:n6 > You don't know the pinoput on the DB37 do you Terry?  G   Not off the top of my head, and most of my DEC documentation has beenpH given away. It's the same as the DMF32, LPV11-SA, and other widgets that drive LP11's and have the DB37.m  F   If it's vital and you can't find the info elsewhere, let me know and I'll try to dig it out.e  - 	Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com/5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USA    ------------------------------   Date: 12 Sep 2000 18:21:30 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: LAVC and security6 Message-ID: <8pls7a$44v$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  \ In article <39BE64D3.9383BA19@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:& :At that point, the MOP is done with.      Nope.-  ' :Is MOP any different between serving aL6 :DECserver boot request and a VAX/ALHA boot request ?      Yes.  ? :I am under the impression that it serves a single file to the ?# :requesting host. Is this correct ?j     Nope.4  H :However, prior to joining the cluster, the VMS booting node must be fedM :certain files (notably VMSPARAMS.DAT and the cluster authorization file that55 :reside in the root associated with the booting node.b     IDSM.l  N :What mechanism serves these files from the boot server to the satellite untilI :such a time that the satellite has not only joined the cluster, but alson; :gotten MSCP access to its system root on the boot server ?o     MOP.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Sep 2000 19:31:25 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: LAVC and security6 Message-ID: <8pm0ad$4re$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  \ In article <39BE672D.CF694BFD@videotron.ca>, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: :Hoff Hoffman wrote:E :>   The MOP Load Assist Agent (LAA) obtains the system root, the SCSdK :>   nodename, and the LAA image -- all as part of the secondary bootstrap.sH :>   With a satellite download, VMB or APB and the LAA image all work to5 :>   load the SYSBOOT image, the secondary bootstrap.  :-L :Does MOP on the serving node "build" a system image based on the parametersJ :for the requesting node and then sends that VMS image with its parametersM :"built-in", or are there multiple dialogues between the satellite and MOP toe4 :request individual files during early system load ?  L   The VMB or APB primary bootstrap image asks for a downline load bootstrap C   via MOP.  This is often known as the "boot me" multicast request.   E   Any bootserver that is running with service enabled that hears the gE   multicast boot request looks up the requestor in its database, and  I   (if it is determined to be appropriate to honor the MOP request) starts G   up a MOM process which then merges in the NISCS_LAA image.  This LAA oI   image builds a load assist parameter block and (eventually) volunteers lJ   to help.  VMB then selects the first bootserver it hears back from, and H   requests the secondary loader (NISCS_LOAD or ISL_SVAX, typically) and G   the load assist parameter block, with the final block containing the  G   transfer address into the secondary loader image.  VMB (or APB) then  E   transfers control to the secondary loader.  Any other MOM processes F   that have also volunteered to help will eventually timeout and exit.  F   It is this parameter block that contains the information that kickedL   off this whole thread -- the satellite settings for SCSNODE, SCSSYSTEMID, L   NISCS_CONV_BOOT, NISCS_PORT_SERV, the bootserver SCSSYSTEMID, the SCSNODE I   and disk information for the system disk (which might be different thancJ   the bootserver), the satellite's OpenVMS system root, the cluster group H   ID (cluster multicast address) and the cluster password quadword, etc.  E   NISCS_LOAD brings along with it primitive versions of PEDRIVER and |D   SCSLOA (known as PEBTDRIVER in this context).  Once NISCS_LOAD is F   running, there is enough system context established for use of SCS, C   and SYSBOOT and such can be loaded.  Once SYSBOOT is "locked and -H   loaded", control is transfered to it by NISCS_LOAD, and the bootstrap    proceeds normally.  G   All of these pieces (including even VMB and APB) exist solely to get 5?   enough context established to get SYSBOOT loaded and running.-  F   If you really want to know how this stuff works, please acquire and I   skim through the IDSM and the VAXcluster Principles manual, and please aA   also acquire and skim the available MOP protocol documentation.F    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 00:47:11 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: LAVC and security, Message-ID: <39BF06C9.3347C15E@videotron.ca>   Hoff Hoffman wrote: H >   It is this parameter block that contains the information that kickedM >   off this whole thread -- the satellite settings for SCSNODE, SCSSYSTEMID, M >   NISCS_CONV_BOOT, NISCS_PORT_SERV, the bootserver SCSSYSTEMID, the SCSNODE-K >   and disk information for the system disk (which might be different thanrK >   the bootserver), the satellite's OpenVMS system root, the cluster group-J >   ID (cluster multicast address) and the cluster password quadword, etc.  H Thanks for the information. Just a question to confirm my understanding:  N Does a satellite node get one MOP response that contains image and parameters,I or does it first get the image, then makes a secondary request to get thew parameters ?  N However, in terms of security, is it correct to state that since those clusterG parameters are provided by MOP, and MOP authenticates based on hardwaree< address (ethernet), then security is not so much an issue ?   L A PC would have to know the ethernet address of an accredited satellite hostF in order to spoof it, right ? Is spoofing an ethernet address a viable "hacking" technique ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 02:05:09 GMTF( From: Jay Olson <jjo@triton.com.no.spam> Subject: Memory channely2 Message-ID: <39BEDEE2.B18D9C9E@triton.com.no.spam>  D I have a couple of old CCMAA Memory Channel adapters lying around. IC would like to use them to build up a small cluster with some of the E systems I have. Can anyone tell me which of the following Alphas will-? support these boards, running either VMS (preferably) or Tru64: C AlphaStation 200 4/233, AlphaServer 2000 4/275 (2 CPU), DS10, DS20?f@ Alternately, would anybody be interested in buying these boards?  ( 	- Jay Olson (jjo "at" triton "dot" com) 	Triton Software Group LLC   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:50:48 GMTa@ From: Jeff - Coachella Valley Water <cyberunlimited.org@gte.net>5 Subject: Need help with SET HOST in VMS Command File. ' Message-ID: <39BE87E0.47BB826B@gte.net>e  C Does anyone know how to automate the SET HOST "nodename" Command in-E a command file so that it automatically signs on to a node? I need to 
 run a command<D file that will sign on to another workstation and run a program from that system.  	 Thanks...a  $ Please reply to: scada@techemail.com   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Sep 2000 20:42:43 GMT3 From: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de (Christoph Gartmann)m9 Subject: Re: Need help with SET HOST in VMS Command File.e0 Message-ID: <8pm4g3$ktf$1@n.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>  j In article <39BE87E0.47BB826B@gte.net>, Jeff - Coachella Valley Water <cyberunlimited.org@gte.net> writes:D >Does anyone know how to automate the SET HOST "nodename" Command inF >a command file so that it automatically signs on to a node? I need to >run a commandE >file that will sign on to another workstation and run a program froma
 >that system.   E I did it once via Kermit and DCL using several procedures to create aCG pseudo-terminal and run a script via that. Let me know if you need more  details.   Regards,    Christoph Gartmanna  H -----------------------------------------------------------------------+H | Max-Planck-Institut fuer      Phone   : +49-761-5108-464   Fax: -452 |H | Immunbiologie                                                        |H | Postfach 1169                 Internet: gartmann@immunbio.mpg.de     |H | D-79011  Freiburg, FRG                                               |H +--------- http://www.immunbio.mpg.de/home/english/menue.html ---------+   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Sep 2000 21:37:04 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)9 Subject: Re: Need help with SET HOST in VMS Command File.i6 Message-ID: <8pm7m0$65e$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  j In article <39BE87E0.47BB826B@gte.net>, Jeff - Coachella Valley Water <cyberunlimited.org@gte.net> writes:  9   Followups to this message have been set to comp.os.vms.t  D :Does anyone know how to automate the SET HOST "nodename" Command inF :a command file so that it automatically signs on to a node? I need toG :run a command file that will sign on to another workstation and run a d :program from that system.  E   I will assume that these nodes are not members if the same cluster.   $   I would not use SET HOST for this.  D   For how this can be resolved, please see the OpenVMS FAQ sections E   DCL8 and (for a somewhat more primitive version) MGMT12.  Also see -B   the OpenVMS Ask The Wizard area (www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard) F   topics 159, 798, 1910, etc.  Also see the DCL command SUBMIT/REMOTE.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Sep 2000 18:19:45 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)D Subject: Re: OpenVMS and TCPIP version and support od "Dual path IP"6 Message-ID: <8pls41$44v$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>   In article <21EC2A9D83EED311A3EB0008C733892B1CE9BF@S70ERTBIA11>, "DECHAIZE Thierry (Dir INFRA)" <thierry.dechaize@sncf.fr> writes:  H   I'm not aware of a scheme with multiple identical IP addresses across K   controllers on OpenVMS -- and if there's a good solution to this problem,.K   I haven't seen it.  The common "solution" used for this sort of thing is aK   NetRAIN, where an outboard widget provides (transparent) IP host address p   translations.s  I   The IP protocol itself really doesn't have a concept of a cluster builtoG   into it and assigns a unique address per each host controller, which  H   makes this all rather interesting to deal with.  DECnet straddles thisG   approach, with the DECnet Phase IV implementation having one address :K   for all controllers on the host, and DECnet-Plus having unique addresses.g'   (Either approach has its trade-offs.)s  E   With OpenVMS and recent TCP/IP Services, take a look at the Dynamica4   DNS Load Balancing and at the Metric Server stuff:  &     http://www.openvms.compaq.com:80002       /72final/6526/6526profile_010.html#mtrc_serv  I   Failover within the same subnet can get interesting, but if you can useCI   multiple subnets (one for each controller), then GateD or similar mightyH   be useful.  (Worst case, a little code that disables or enables the IP$   interfaces is obviously feasible.)  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:31:27 -0700r& From: Ryan Moore <rmoore@qualcomm.com>D Subject: Re: OpenVMS and TCPIP version and support od "Dual path IP"H Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10009121329380.2591-100000@zinc.qualcomm.com>  # On 12 Sep 2000, Hoff Hoffman wrote: J >   I'm not aware of a scheme with multiple identical IP addresses across M >   controllers on OpenVMS -- and if there's a good solution to this problem,jM >   I haven't seen it.  The common "solution" used for this sort of thing is >M >   NetRAIN, where an outboard widget provides (transparent) IP host address * >   translations.i  B I didn't see the original question here, but Multinet 4.3 was justE released and has this functionality.  Here's the information from the  release notes:  3 Paired Network Interface on a Common Ethernet Cable   F         MultiNet v4.3 has been enhanced to include support for systems that  K         have multiple interfaces on a common Ethernet, FDDI, or Token Ring .C         cable. Configure this support using the following MULTINET           SET/INTERFACE command:  A           $ MULTINET SET/INTERFACE xxx/COMMON_LINK=(yyy,[zzz...])   F         With this command MultiNet links the interfaces internally. A C         performance benefit of this linking occurs if data is to be  transmitted J         on an interface that happens to be busy; MultiNet assigns the data to  9         the least busy linked interface for transmission.S  E         This linking also provides a level of redundancy. If a linked 	 interface:J         is shut down using MULTINET SET/INTERFACE/DOWN or if a fatal error is nG         detected with the interface and an automatic restart cannot be cC         attempted, then any routing table entries or pseudo devices> associated 3F         with the shut down interface will be failed over to one of the common e         link interfaces.           Restrictions:l  D         - The joined interfaces must be connected to the same cable.  7         - The joined interfaces must have the same MTU.n   -Ryane   ------------------------------   Date: 12 Sep 2000 21:03:22 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)D Subject: Re: OpenVMS and TCPIP version and support od "Dual path IP"6 Message-ID: <8pm5mq$5ob$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  q In article <Pine.GSO.4.10.10009121329380.2591-100000@zinc.qualcomm.com>, Ryan Moore <rmoore@qualcomm.com> writes:t$ :On 12 Sep 2000, Hoff Hoffman wrote:K :>   I'm not aware of a scheme with multiple identical IP addresses across aN :>   controllers on OpenVMS -- and if there's a good solution to this problem,N :>   I haven't seen it.  The common "solution" used for this sort of thing is N :>   NetRAIN, where an outboard widget provides (transparent) IP host address  :>   translations. :e@ :...Multinet 4.3 was just released and has this functionality... ..G :        MultiNet v4.3 has been enhanced to include support for systemsoF :        that have multiple interfaces on a common Ethernet, FDDI, or K :        Token Ring cable...  ...MultiNet links the interfaces internally. cF :        A performance benefit of this linking occurs if data is to beG :        transmitted on an interface that happens to be busy; MultiNet ,N :        assigns the data to the least busy linked interface for transmission.    K   There have been some discussions of controller-level address duplication eC   and we (Compaq) may well end up implementing something like this.l  J   As for redundency, (in my experience) you're a whole lot more likely to H   loose the whole host system than just an isolated controller -- hence J   I'd tend to assume that folks would be looking for something like this, G   but would want it to span hosts.  In other words, something like whatsF   a DECnet cluster alias or NetRAIN (two very different approaches, I    might add) offers.  G   I'd certainly want to "ring it out", but MultiNet might well have an qG   interesting point about performance when the interconnects over-load.hH   (This configuration requires a connection to the same LAN segment, so F   the load on this LAN segment would also potentially come into play.)  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:00:54 -0500T7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>n< Subject: Re: OpenVMS filesystem reader for MicroSoft Windows- Message-ID: <39BED1C6.377D3B62@earthlink.net>r   Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: > \ > In article <39bdfa69.502157704@news.newsguy.com>, A.Greig@viirgin.net (Alan Greig) writes:C > >On Fri, 08 Sep 2000 16:45:42 GMT, goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter7 > >Goatley) wrote:F > >>MGPCX lets you read and write DOS floppies, on both VAX and Alpha.J > >>(Last I knew, PCDISK was VAX only.)  Unfortunately, I've never had the > >P
 > >$ SHOW CPUh > >7$ > >XXXXX,  a Compaq AlphaServer ES40 > >..... > >..... > >$ MCR PCDISKd > >PCDISK V6.0
 > >PCDISK> > >rE > >This is the version that currently ships with Advanced Server 7.2A  > > G > >Not sure if it's actually still supported and I know it was supposed0C > >to be going away at one tme but it is still there at the moment.u > K > Does anyone know, if MGPCX or PCDISK does work with DOS ZIP-Drives, too ?o  H To my knowledge, no - they have the diskette geomertries hard-coded into@ them, and do not seem (to be able) to detect it from the device.   I could be wrong, of course...   --   David J. Dachterav dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.l   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 02:19:32 GMTi- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)o< Subject: Re: OpenVMS filesystem reader for MicroSoft Windows0 Message-ID: <39bee341.52514451@swen.process.com>  7 On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:00:54 -0500, "David J. Dachtera"-$ <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote:   >Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: L >> Does anyone know, if MGPCX or PCDISK does work with DOS ZIP-Drives, too ? >0I >To my knowledge, no - they have the diskette geomertries hard-coded into:A >them, and do not seem (to be able) to detect it from the device.c >a >I could be wrong, of course...6 >F> No, you're right, neither supports anything but floppy drives.C Supporting larger disks was something I've wanted to look into, butt+ there are only so many hours in the day....t   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/t: goathunter@goatley.com      http://www.goatley.com/hunter/   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:53:51 GMTr$ From: hx_101@hotmail.com (HorseNuts)" Subject: Searching for file dates!- Message-ID: <39be7b60.1745319817@news.dal.ca>   F I would like to search for example the disk  DRA0 for all files in allA directories that have been accessed today. Is there any way to dod this....   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 00:31:31 GMT / From: "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net>m& Subject: Re: Searching for file dates!F Message-ID: <DVzv5.5608$6f1.414512@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>  J You cannot search for "access" dates unless you have file retention turned on for the volume.I ($Help set volume / retention...).  You set a time period in which  files  will expire.  It turnsK on a flag to set that date in the expired date field  each time the file iss accessed.  NothingJ actually happens to the file on that date unless you issue a command based on the expiration date.A  K If you want to search for any file that was "modified" during  a particulara date,   ' $DIR/MODIFIED/SINCE=date   /BEFORE=dateh; (eg:  $DIR/DATE=MODIFIED/MODIFIED/SIN=YESTERDAY DRA0:[*...]oI  or  $DIR/DATE=MODIFIED/MODIFED/SIN=1-JAN-1999/BEF=2-JAN-1999 DRA0:[*...]v  1 "HorseNuts" <hx_101@hotmail.com> wrote in message ' news:39be7b60.1745319817@news.dal.ca...iH > I would like to search for example the disk  DRA0 for all files in allC > directories that have been accessed today. Is there any way to doV
 > this....   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 23:14:21 -0400(2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>" Subject: Searching for file dates!7 Message-ID: <200009122314_MC2-B321-355C@compuserve.com>t  E         Well, DFU SEARCH comes to mind.  DFU is on the Freeware CD, Ir believe.    ! Message text written by HorseNutsw > =P  F I would like to search for example the disk  DRA0 for all files in allA directories that have been accessed today. Is there any way to dou	 this....<o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 23:31:39 -0400t2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>" Subject: Searching for file dates!7 Message-ID: <200009122331_MC2-B321-35FE@compuserve.com>n  J         I suggested DFU in an earlier message but FIRST, you have to reco= rdJ the date of access somehow.   No problem if you modify the file but if yo= uA just read it it gets difficult.l  G         There is a technique using SET VOLUME /RETENTTION to modify the E expiration dates of files as they are accessed.  You might be able to-  figure something out using this.  >         You could put an ACL on every file; (AUDIT=3DSECURITY,7 ACCESS=3DREAD+WRITE+EXECUTE+CONTROL) to get an entry in J SYS$MANAGER:SECURITY.AUDIT$JOURNAL, which you can list with ANALYZE /AUDI= T.F  It could get VERY expensive in terms of performance if some files areF requently accessed by many users.  It could also burn up a lot of disk space for the audit file.t      ! Message text written by HorseNutsDG >I would like to search for example the disk  DRA0 for all files in allSA directories that have been accessed today. Is there any way to dok	 this....<h   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 12:46:28 -0600o= From: Arlen Williams <remove.arlen.williams@remove.sabre.com>t) Subject: Show Current PC Noninteractivelys0 Message-ID: <39BCD423.56FF9BF8@remove.sabre.com>  E I have a process that occasionally gets stuck. I have another processiH that can recognize that situation and restart the one that is stuck, butD am wanting to gather some information about the stuck process before@ automatically restarting it. I would like the output from a showD process/continuous but just need a onetime shot and need it from theD program or from batch without any manual intervention. What I really" need is the current PC. Any ideas?   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:16:49 GMTe= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)-- Subject: Re: Show Current PC Noninteractively:0 Message-ID: <009F005D.5154D381@SendSpamHere.ORG>  p In article <39BCD423.56FF9BF8@remove.sabre.com>, Arlen Williams <remove.arlen.williams@remove.sabre.com> writes:F >I have a process that occasionally gets stuck. I have another processI >that can recognize that situation and restart the one that is stuck, buthE >am wanting to gather some information about the stuck process beforeSA >automatically restarting it. I would like the output from a show4E >process/continuous but just need a onetime shot and need it from the E >program or from batch without any manual intervention. What I reallyo# >need is the current PC. Any ideas?-  0 Do you have privies to used SDA???   If so, try:   $ ANALYZE/SYSTEM SET LOG HUNGUP_PROCESS.LOG3 SHOW PROCESS/INDEX=<pid of hungup process>/REGISTERO EXIT $ EXIT  H If you'd like to have a symbolic traceback showing the entire call chain1 up to the point where the process is "hung", see:   - http://www.tmesis.com/help/@SNAPSHOT/SNAPSHOT C http://www.tmesis.com/help/@SNAPSHOT/SNAPSHOT/QUALIFIERS/_TRACEBACK    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMa            mO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:57:52 -0400O  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist5 Message-ID: <1000912204231.5701A-100000@Ives.egh.com>a  = On Mon, 11 Sep 2000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:k  ' > Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk wrote:  > A > > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza? > >e3 > > Splitting hairs? Pot, kettle and black again...h > >rT > > The point of my post, if in fact there was one, is to point out that the figures > > you gave were incorrect. > >CR > > And yet again, with the response below, you seem to be unsure of what you have > > said in previous posts.r > >a > @ > No Steve you see you have now got no excuse for not CORRECTINGG > Kerry's posting in particular because you have read the HP datacenter F > prep guide for the 2500. You now know  that HP's recommendations areM > not at all dissimilar to Sun's and you also know that HP actually recommend # > a much tighter temperature range.  > M > You also know that while HP don't specifically recommend a realive humidityeI > value that their table of static discharge vs relative humidty suggestsS > that 50% is a good value.o > G > You also know that HP place great emphasis on reducing the chances ofOL > static discharge and they are specific about flooring furniture etc. Again: > this advice is exactly what Sun advises their customers. > @ > At the moment you seem happy to CORRECT minor details which inC > no way materially effect the argument while being unable for what 9 > ever reason to CORRECT the big mistake that Kerry made.f > E > Since you seem unable to do this I suggest that you stop CORRECTINGf9 > my postings you have have forfetted any right to do so.p > D > You see you can't have it both ways either you really want CORRECT> > DATA to be diseminated to this group or you don't and at the@ > moment it's pretty unclear where you actually stand because atB > the moment you appear to be trying to hide the real facts behindF > a smoke screen. Of course this may simply be an incorrect impression0 > that I have formed from your postings :):):):) > F > Since you seem unable to write the fatefull lines yourself I include@ > the following paragraphs from which you can choose one choice. >  > 1iH >         I have read the HP site preparation guide for the HP V2500 andL >         based on the information in the guide Kerry and Rob are completelyS >         incorrect when they say that Sun is expecting their systems to be runningDI >         in much more environmentally controlled environments than other1. >         vendors such as HP, IBM, DG, Compaq. >   I Andrew - I have been reading this interminable thread for what seems likehF months now, and I don't remember either Kerry or Rob ever saying this.  E They asked if it were true.  If it were true, it would be an argumentiE in Sun's favor, a justification for the problems that Suns experiencew@ are due to customers not following the environmental guidelines.  C If Sun's guidelines are similar to other vendors, and other vendorseA equipment works fine, then I would look at Sun's engineering, note the environment.    E You can't have it both ways.  Either the Sun equip. requires narrowerdA temp and humidity ranges and greater care about static than othergA vendors or it doesn't.  If it requires a tighter environment, andh> Sun's evnironment specs are clear and accurate about this, andD customers haven't followed the guidelines, then Sun is not at fault; customers are.  ? If the Sun equipment requires the same environment as the otherv@ equipment, but it fails and the other stuff doesn't, then either< Suns are defective or the other equipment is massively over-@ engineered.  If the computer room meets the stated environmental; guidelines of both manufacturers, then the Sun equipment isl
 defective.  = According to the posts, much of the Sun equipment (I like thee9 British term "kit", it is much shorter!) is in controlled-= environments, where other equipment works just fine.  Withoutn< knowing the temp, humidity and airflow, I can't be sure that? people don't ALWAYS place their Suns in the hottest part of theM room, but it seems unlikely.  < Also, remember that we are talking about large servers here,* not desk-top, office environment machines.  9 Comments about Alphas working at 45C, etc. are completelym> irrelevent to this thread.  We are talking about large servers9 working (or failing to work) in controlled, computer-roomf
 environments.    > 2nM >         I have read the guide but do not believe its contents and therefore 1 >         in my opinion Kerry and Rob are right .w >  > 3vF >         I have not read the guide and have no opinion or CORRECTIONS >         to offer.n >  > Choose 1 of the 3a >  >  > 	 > Regardss > Andrew Harrison. > Enterprise IT Architecto   --   John Santos: Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 21:10:27 -0400e  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist5 Message-ID: <1000912210354.5701B-100000@Ives.egh.com>   > uOn Mon, 11 Sep 2000, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy wrote:  ' > Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk wrote:K > A > > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plazaa > >n	 > > Look,  > > T > > I've said this in another post, but I'll repeat it here, as you seem happy to to! > > try and give me grief online.e > >;P > > Tell me what Kerry and Rob have said (post their remarks) and I will happilyB > > correct them if they have made factually incorrect statements. > >f > 1 > Well here is one of Kerry's posts for starters.I > Q > "Based on all of the notes you have presented here, are Sun technical documentsnS > being updated to reflect Suns requrements for much tighter environmental controls U > than other vendors? IBM, HP, Compaq, DG do not appear to be having these issues, sovS > it appears their systems can operate reliably at higher (what some would consider # > normal) datacenter temperatures."o >  >   Wow .."m > U > This statement contains at least 2 entirely INCORRECT statements which no doubt you- > willO > respond by CORRECTING. One of which demostrated that Kerry isn't competent toa	 > commentfS > about the environmental requirements for Compaq's own equipment let alone passingD	 > commento > on other peoples.c >a  H What statements in the above quote are factually incorrect?  There are 3G sentences in the quote.  The first is a question, not a statement.  TheoH 3rd is an interjection ("Wow ..")  That leaves us with the 2nd sentence.G The second sentence makes 3 statements.  1) IBM, HP, Compaq and DG (?!)lE don't appear to be having these issues.  2) Those systems can operateuH reliably at higher temperatures than Suns.  3) Those higher temperatures7 are within the range of normal datacenter temperatures.   H Which of those 3 statements are you disputing?  Can you cite documentary	 evidence?i    4Q > Incedentally this post was the one I replied to which you CORRECTED, you didn'tn > spot the 2 errorsES > then so lets see how you do now. Incedentally Kerry concentrated very unwisely ont > high temperatureU > requirements which is why I replied illustrating that he was unaware that the GS140 
 > actually: > requires a lower operating temperature than Sun, HP etc. > Q > I await your response with interest, though I can't help feeling that you woulds > have beenoS > better off reading Kerry's post before replying to mine, (assuming you didn't) ass > it hasn't  > helped you one bit.n > 	 > Regardsx > Andrew Harrisonw > Enterprise IT Architect    -- h John Santoss Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 01:52:45 -0400 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>r* Subject: RE: Sun Hardware problems persistJ Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D8052847AC@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com>   Andrew,t  L >>> Interesting spin. What would Compaqs position be if a customer ran theirJ GS140's in a datacenter that was say 30C and the machine failed with say a CPU failure. <<n  K Simple. Since ANY datacenter running at 30C would likely be a very isolated K incident (A/C failure most likely since datacenter folks are experienced ITiI people), the Customer would fix the A/C problem, Compaq Customer ServiceseK would replace the board and that would be the end of the problem.  Assuming 8 a maint contract was in place, there would be no charge.  $ Whats hard to understand about that?  J Or perhaps you feel there are a great many Customer datacenters running at 30C?  K Btw, thx for the environment 101 update - it was very enlightening. Imagine5; that. A datacenter might have different temperatures in theeI room...perforated tiles make a difference - what will they think of next?   
 More rotfl ..    :-)C   Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant,
 Compaq Canada. Professional ServicesI Voice : 613-592-4660 FAX   : 819-772-7036 Email : kerry.main@compaq.com        -----Original Message-----' From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK ConsultancyD! [mailto:andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com] * Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 10:31 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com2* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist    G This message uses a character set that is not supported by the Internet K Service.  To view the original message content,  open the attached message.eL If the text doesn't display correctly, save the attachment to disk, and thenD open it using a viewer that can display the original character set.    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:32:08 GMTa/ From: "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net>e  Subject: Re: UCX on VMS questionF Message-ID: <Ywvv5.5358$6f1.393388@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>  J Please use the "reply to group" feature rather than the "reply to sender".C I would prefer not to have a lot of e-mail downloaded to my system.d  @ I forgot to mention that you need to restart telnet, which means% terminating existing telnet sessions.d  D As to the error,  "telent" was a typo on my part, which I would have> assumed you would have picked up on since you got it right theF first time, and since it told you there was probably a spelling error. It should say "telnet".o   ---- Original Message -----:' From: "Smith, Powers" <pasmith@ppg.com>o  To: <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net>) Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 2:35 PM, Subject: UCX ON VMSo    H > I tried '$ucx set service telnet /limit = n' and it did not give me anH > error, but when I do the 'show service telnet/full', the value has notL > changed.  When I try the '$ucx set config service telent /limit = n (so itF > lasts through a reboot) ', it gives me an error saying 'unrecognized keywordkK > - check validity and spelling' for \service\.  Any other suggestions willi be > appreciated. >r >- >-( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 08:53:50 +0010-% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au0+ Subject: Re: Upgrade to DECset 12.4/CMS 4.1o5 Message-ID: <01JU4A5BWWXU0045HZ@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>D   I wrote:	 [snipped]n  M Oh dear. I didn't read the last chapter of the release notes 'til last night.n  " Sorry for wasting everyone's time.   Regards, Paddy   Paddy O'Brien, Transmission Development,-
 TransGrid, PO Box A1000, Sydney South,  NSW 2000, AustraliaJ   Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050& Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  M Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people,c; but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:56:56 -0700 0 From: "William S. LaCounte" <vmsmanager@ups.edu>" Subject: Re: using / in the symbol# Message-ID: <39BEA6A8.2680@ups.edu>e  F I wrote some c code to perform Oracle Password Lookup on the fly. ThisH requires setting up foreign command symbols such as $ sqlplus == "....".G When the user logs in part of the login procedure is to intercept these/ symbols with this:   xsqlplus == "...."+ sqlplus == "$device:[directory]fetchorapsw"o  H Then, anytime the user enters sqlplus... the command is intercepted, theC password is looked up, and the foreign command prefixed with "x" is. executed via lib$do_command.   Bill   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 23:09:13 GMTr0 From: djlong@wild_wizards.net (David J. P. Long)7 Subject: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharing , Message-ID: <39c2b616.179073494@news.mv.com>  E Has anyone successfully used a VMS machine to connect to the Internet  through a Win98 ICS connection?_  F The reason I ask is that I should be getting a DSL line in here soon -B I already have 2 PCs connected to my dialup line (ICS working veryF well for that) and was wondering if I could somehow link my VaxstationD 3100 to it - I can get the hardware problems solved to hook it up toD my 10BaseT hub, that's not a problem, I'm just wondering if VMS will6 'see' anything or what I have to do to make it happen.  C I checked deja.com to see if this had been raised before, but all IeB found were a few "I'm going to try it" comments with no follow up.  2 Can anyone help or point me to a FAQ or something?   Thanks in advanceaA +----/|-------------------------------------+-------------------+=A |   | |  djlong@wildwizards.net              \                  |qA |  /  |    djlong@msn.com                     \                 | A | (    )     http://www.wildwizards.net        \ ICQ# 8976662   |gA +--`--' ----------------------------------------+---------------+D   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 23:35:49 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)L; Subject: Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharingo0 Message-ID: <009F0079.1E4BEB75@SendSpamHere.ORG>  _ In article <39c2b616.179073494@news.mv.com>, djlong@wild_wizards.net (David J. P. Long) writes:tF >Has anyone successfully used a VMS machine to connect to the Internet  >through a Win98 ICS connection?   What the hell is a "Win98 ICS"?r     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM1            oO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.u   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 00:12:20 GMTo0 From: djlong@wild_wizards.net (David J. P. Long); Subject: Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharing , Message-ID: <39c3c615.183168929@news.mv.com>  > system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) wrote:  ` >In article <39c2b616.179073494@news.mv.com>, djlong@wild_wizards.net (David J. P. Long) writes:G >>Has anyone successfully used a VMS machine to connect to the Internetl! >>through a Win98 ICS connection?i >h  >What the hell is a "Win98 ICS"?  & Windows 98 Internet Connection Sharing  @ It's a way to hook up multiple PCs to use one PCs modem/InternetD connection.  The PC with the modem acts as a 'gateway' - all PCs are also hooked up to a net hub.A +----/|-------------------------------------+-------------------+,A |   | |  djlong@wildwizards.net              \                  |IA |  /  |    djlong@msn.com                     \                 |sA | (    )     http://www.wildwizards.net        \ ICQ# 8976662   |uA +--`--' ----------------------------------------+---------------+o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:07:18 -0400s* From: Chuck Chopp <ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com>; Subject: Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharingo+ Message-ID: <39BEC536.B2A874EB@rtfmcsi.com>n  & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:  a > In article <39c2b616.179073494@news.mv.com>, djlong@wild_wizards.net (David J. P. Long) writes:OH > >Has anyone successfully used a VMS machine to connect to the Internet" > >through a Win98 ICS connection? >t! > What the hell is a "Win98 ICS"?n >h > --Q > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM/ >wQ > city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.P  ! ICS = Internet Connection SharingV    c Win98 and Win2K have a low-end NAT function built into them that can be turned on so that computerseM on the private side of a home network can share a single Internet connection.7     -- Chuck Choppn  8 ChuckChopp@rtfmcsi.com            http://www.rtfmcsi.com0                                   ICQ # 22321532@ RTFM Consulting Services Inc.     864 801 2795 voice & voicemail2 103 Autumn Hill Road              864 801 2774 fax4 Greer, SC  29651                  800 400 4935 pagerC                                   8004004935@alphapage.airtouch.coma   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 00:11:44 GMTs$ From: Ryan Moore <rmoore@san.rr.com>; Subject: Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharingp; Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.20.0009121706180.430-100000@jaipur>i  , On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, David J. P. Long wrote:G > Has anyone successfully used a VMS machine to connect to the Interneti! > through a Win98 ICS connection?d  H I haven't tried it, but in theory I think it should work.  At least with outgoing TCP connections.i  H > The reason I ask is that I should be getting a DSL line in here soon -D > I already have 2 PCs connected to my dialup line (ICS working veryH > well for that) and was wondering if I could somehow link my VaxstationF > 3100 to it - I can get the hardware problems solved to hook it up toF > my 10BaseT hub, that's not a problem, I'm just wondering if VMS will8 > 'see' anything or what I have to do to make it happen.  E There will be one point that's different than Windows box.  Normally,tJ the way this works, the "server" that's directly connected to the InternetF configures the "clients" on the local LAN via DHCP.  I don't think anyG current VMS stack includes a DHCP client, so you will have to configureo the VMS box manually.s  F By default, Windows assigns the IP address 192.168.0.1 to the internalD adapter of the server.  Clients need IP addresses in the 192.168.0.x subnet.a  J So, I'd configure the VMS box with the IP address 192.168.0.2 with netmaskH 255.255.255.0.  Set your default gateway to 192.168.0.1 and set your DNS) server to 192.168.0.1.  Then, try it out!e  
 Good luck.   -Ryan    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:19:55 -0500I7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> ; Subject: Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharing - Message-ID: <39BED63B.888E095D@earthlink.net>o  & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: > a > In article <39c2b616.179073494@news.mv.com>, djlong@wild_wizards.net (David J. P. Long) writes:dH > >Has anyone successfully used a VMS machine to connect to the Internet" > >through a Win98 ICS connection? > ! > What the hell is a "Win98 ICS"?e  " _I_nternet _C_onnection _S_haring.   --   David J. Dachterah dba DJE SystemsC http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/b  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.S   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 01:25:56 GMTn/ From: StevenU@POBoxes.com (Steven P. Underwood)i; Subject: Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharing 0 Message-ID: <39bed5fd.2876911@news.telocity.com>  F I don't know if this will work or not, but a simpler way may be to getE a DSL router.  I use a LinkSys BEFSR41 w/ built in 4 port switch, but B they have 1 port units that you could connect to your current hub.= There are several models for <$200.  They do NAT for outgoing : connections and will forward ports to different servers.    D This way you are not dependant on the Winblows box for your superior VMS machine. (VMS BIGOT here)e  E This is my plan as soon as I get the time to rebuild my computer roomhF in the basement. (Had to move out of the spare bedroom to make way for# a December addition to the family).   C For more information, start at http://www.dslreports.com and follow"B the networking links to the hardware section.  Sorry, but I do not" know if this link is VMS friendly.   Steve   F On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 23:09:13 GMT, djlong@wild_wizards.net (David J. P. Long) wrote:  F >Has anyone successfully used a VMS machine to connect to the Internet  >through a Win98 ICS connection? >sG >The reason I ask is that I should be getting a DSL line in here soon -tC >I already have 2 PCs connected to my dialup line (ICS working veryaG >well for that) and was wondering if I could somehow link my VaxstationoE >3100 to it - I can get the hardware problems solved to hook it up to E >my 10BaseT hub, that's not a problem, I'm just wondering if VMS willm7 >'see' anything or what I have to do to make it happen.  >aD >I checked deja.com to see if this had been raised before, but all IC >found were a few "I'm going to try it" comments with no follow up.H >i3 >Can anyone help or point me to a FAQ or something?: >v >Thanks in advanceB >+----/|-------------------------------------+-------------------+B >|   | |  djlong@wildwizards.net              \                  |B >|  /  |    djlong@msn.com                     \                 |B >| (    )     http://www.wildwizards.net        \ ICQ# 8976662   |B >+--`--' ----------------------------------------+---------------+   Steven P. Underwood,DNRC Whitinsville,MAS StevenU@POBoxes.comS   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:29:56 -0500u7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>n; Subject: Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharingb- Message-ID: <39BED894.AE13C017@earthlink.net>i   "David J. P. Long" wrote:h > G > Has anyone successfully used a VMS machine to connect to the Internetr! > through a Win98 ICS connection?s > H > The reason I ask is that I should be getting a DSL line in here soon -D > I already have 2 PCs connected to my dialup line (ICS working veryH > well for that) and was wondering if I could somehow link my VaxstationF > 3100 to it - I can get the hardware problems solved to hook it up toF > my 10BaseT hub, that's not a problem, I'm just wondering if VMS will8 > 'see' anything or what I have to do to make it happen. > E > I checked deja.com to see if this had been raised before, but all IpD > found were a few "I'm going to try it" comments with no follow up. > 4 > Can anyone help or point me to a FAQ or something?  E Well, my standard advice to W/98se-ICS is DON'T! If it goes sour (andlH believe me, it can and it WILL!), you'll be left with little choice than# to wipe the C drive and start over.T  G My standard advice is to use the 3com 56K LANmodem, 3C886A I believe iswC the 3com number. This device handles the same functions as ICS moreeG reliably and with little or no management and little setup. It even hasnC a web-based management interface - you manage it from your browser.mH There is also an undocumented TELNET interface. There is an ISDN versionG of the same device. Both versions have a built-in 4 port 10BaseT (only)  hub.  D For (A)DSL and/or cable modems, see MacSense's Xrouter. It even doesD PPPoE (PPP over Ethernet) so your ISP thinks you're still logging in from a Wintel box.  G IMO, these (and products like them) are the best choices for home/smalloC office. I just installed the 56K LANmodem at one of FSInet's clienta> sites yesterday - small office with six or seven workstations.   -- r David J. Dachterau dba DJE Systemst http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.-   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Sep 2000 02:58:37 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)u; Subject: Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection SharingC' Message-ID: <8pmqgt$8ss$1@joe.rice.edu>.  6 David J. Dachtera (djesys.nospam@earthlink.net) wrote:I : My standard advice is to use the 3com 56K LANmodem, 3C886A I believe istE : the 3com number. This device handles the same functions as ICS morepI : reliably and with little or no management and little setup. It even hasnE : a web-based management interface - you manage it from your browser.IJ : There is also an undocumented TELNET interface. There is an ISDN versionI : of the same device. Both versions have a built-in 4 port 10BaseT (only)m : hub.  ( Here's the details on the 56K LAN Modem:  2   http://www.3com.com/products/dsheets/400397.html   56K LAN Modeme  / the same for the OfficeConnect LAN Modem (OCLM)n  2   http://www.3com.com/products/dsheets/400396.html   ISDN LAN Modem    and the OCLM's telnet interface:  &   http://www.hal-pc.org/~wdg/OCLM.html4   OCLM SECRETS Bubba's Guide To The Telnet Interface  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 05:30:45 GMTr From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>; Subject: Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharing-' Message-ID: <39BF1104.A58CEDED@home.nl>i  E No, you can't use Win98 ICS. ICS requires that you do a Windows logon,B from the client before you can use ICS. So ICS is a pure gatesware' product, only to be used by billyboxes.sE You could try to use NAT32  ( http://www.nat32.com/ ) that will work.e   Regards,   Dirk   "David J. P. Long" wrote:e > G > Has anyone successfully used a VMS machine to connect to the Interneta! > through a Win98 ICS connection?s > H > The reason I ask is that I should be getting a DSL line in here soon -D > I already have 2 PCs connected to my dialup line (ICS working veryH > well for that) and was wondering if I could somehow link my VaxstationF > 3100 to it - I can get the hardware problems solved to hook it up toF > my 10BaseT hub, that's not a problem, I'm just wondering if VMS will8 > 'see' anything or what I have to do to make it happen. > E > I checked deja.com to see if this had been raised before, but all ImD > found were a few "I'm going to try it" comments with no follow up. > 4 > Can anyone help or point me to a FAQ or something? >  > Thanks in advance C > +----/|-------------------------------------+-------------------+aC > |   | |  djlong@wildwizards.net              \                  |aC > |  /  |    djlong@msn.com                     \                 |nC > | (    )     http://www.wildwizards.net        \ ICQ# 8976662   |uC > +--`--' ----------------------------------------+---------------+'   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 15:21:20 -0300/. From: Rob & Betty Ervin <robnbety@nbnet.nb.ca>5 Subject: Your "Work from Home" Info Pack Has Arrived! + Message-ID: <39BE741F.5C11947E@nbnet.nb.ca>r  & --------------AB33C784575D18AA5A47763E* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit     In order for things to change...'                     YOU have to change!y"                         -Jim Rohn-    )              Please do not proceed if you-&                   are happy with your:                           Income!.!                       Job/Career!X"                     Daily Commute!%           Time Away From Your Family! )        Kids Being Raised By Someone Else!'     Hello!  5 Do you feel like you are too busy earning a living tod: make any real money?  Are you tired of living "paycheck to9 paycheck" like I was?  Do you dream of a better lifestyle: for yourself and your family?2  3 If so, then I urge you to take the next step in ouri< screening process to find out just EXACTLY what we're doing.  8 I guarantee it will change your life forever, just as it has for so many others.-  7           *********************************************   , Now imagine just for a moment that you had a$ home-based business that provided...  +        *Spending more time with your family .        *Unlimited income based on YOUR efforts        *freedom from commuting(        *not having your kids in day care.        *affordable health care for your family5        *significantly helping others with their livesl2        *loving what you do and doing what you love4        *having your own business/being your own boss  4 Sounds too good to be true?  That's what we thought,: but today our dreams are coming true and now we're here to% help you, like others have helped us!i  7           *********************************************0  6 We like to get right to the point...so here is what we have to offer you:  6     1)  A well established, financially stable company       2)  Billion dollar + sales  1     3)  Patented, exclusive, high demand productsn  1     4)  Comprehensive, high-tech in home training_  !     5)  Phenomenal support system   &     6)  Worldwide income opportunities       7)  Exotic paid vacationsd  #     8)  Minimal start up investmentt                       \\|//o                    (o o)(       ---------oOOo-(_)-oOOo------------  +              ARE YOU GETTING A BIT CURIOUS?b  1 GREAT!  That's fine... as long as you're serious!l6 Because our business is bursting at the seams, we ONLY4 have time to work with serious, motivated people who, are ready to make changes in their life NOW!  4 And because of the time we spend with each of you as5 we help you get your business off the ground, we havea% limited number of openings available.-  ,               Here is what you need to do...   Log onto  http://www.wah-international.com   Our Trainings Are In:@(                     Canada - 9 Locations'                     U.S. - 29 Locationsd+                    WORLDWIDE - 49 Countries-  %            (With China Opening Soon!)-  7 I look forward to helping you get started with your new,9 home business, and talking with you very soon!  And don'tB< forget.....opportunity is usually disguised behind what most   of us call HARD WORK!!!n  ; Now, we don't mean to offend anyone...but here is a list ofc3 Common Pitiful Excuses we have heard as to why thisr1 program just COULDN'T work for them.  You want toc$ see them?  Okay...but don't get mad!   1)  It's too good to be true.8 2)  It HAS to be a scam. 3)  There HAS to be a catch. 4)  It must be a lie.P" 5)  This could NEVER happen to me. 6)  I'm not good enough. 7)  I'm not smart enough.. 8)  I'm too young. 9)  I'm too old.) 10) I'm too ugly (we just threw this in!)-  0 Okay...see how ridiculous it sounds?  But we can3 relate..because at some point, we thought them too.L  ) We are obligated to tell you that your...t   Age...	 Skills... 
 Background...c
 Experience...@ or Education..y  &                       DOES NOT MATTER!  3             This business will groom you to improvee(                         yourself with...*                     more money, more time,/                   more excitement about life...l0                 and more reasons to look forward'                         to your future!t  /            So....are you going to make EXCUSES?u/             Or...are you going to make CHANGES?i   It's your choice.m  / BUT....remember what the people in our business  have in common?    1)  They saw an opportunity. 2)  They were teachable.# 3)  They applied what they learned..    2 Do you fit the profile?  Are we talking about YOU?< Someone very wise told us something we've never forgotten...  $            Successful people do what%            Unsuccessful people won't.-   Which are you?  : What if this really IS the opportunity you've been looking for?  6 What do you have to lose by thoroughly checking it out/ before making a decision that it's not for you?S  5        **********************************************2< If you're still interested, then take the step listed above.  5        **********************************************@  0 And remember...knowledge ISN'T power..ACTION IS!  0 We hope to hear from you if you're ready to make1 some changes.  You won't BELIEVE what will happen  to you if you are...   Very sincerely,h   Robert Ervin International Training Directorr  http://www.wah-international.com  & --------------AB33C784575D18AA5A47763E) Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-asciie Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitt  > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">5 <font size=-1>In order for things to change...</font>r <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; YOU have to change!</font> <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -Jim Rohn-</font>5
 <br>&nbsp;Y <p><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;-# Please do not proceed if you</font>1x <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; are happy with your:</font>4 <p><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;9 Income!</font> <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Job/Career!</font> <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Daily Commute!</font>iH <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;" Time Away From Your Family!</font>H <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Kids Being Raised By Someone Else!</font>h
 <br>&nbsp; <p><font size=-1>Hello!</font>M <p><font size=-1>Do you feel like you are too busy earning a living to</font>eN <br><font size=-1>make any real money?&nbsp; Are you tired of living "paycheck	 to</font>yF <br><font size=-1>paycheck" like I was?&nbsp; Do you dream of a better lifestyle</font>6 <br><font size=-1>for yourself and your family?</font>K <p><font size=-1>If so, then I urge you to take the next step in our</font> G <br><font size=-1>screening process to find out just EXACTLY what we're 
 doing.</font>.F <p><font size=-1>I guarantee it will change your life forever, just as	 it</font>o0 <br><font size=-1>has for so many others.</font>G <p><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;14 *********************************************</font>D <p><font size=-1>Now imagine just for a moment that you had a</font>= <br><font size=-1>home-based business that provided...</font>kI <p><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *Spending more time6 with your family</font>dH <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *Unlimited income based on YOUR efforts</font>U <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *freedom from commuting</font>9G <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *not having yourh kids in day care</font>/I <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *affordable healthr care for your family</font>/M <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *significantly helpings others with their lives</font>G <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *loving what youc! do and doing what you love</font>rG <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *having your own-# business/being your own boss</font>5Q <p><font size=-1>Sounds too good to be true?&nbsp; That's what we thought,</font>9I <br><font size=-1>but today our dreams are coming true and now we're herec	 to</font> > <br><font size=-1>help you, like others have helped us!</font>G <p><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4 *********************************************</font>N <p><font size=-1>We like to get right to the point...so here is what we</font>+ <br><font size=-1>have to offer you:</font>fL <p><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1)&nbsp; A well established, financially stable company</font>.J <p><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2)&nbsp; Billion dollar + sales</font>F <p><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3)&nbsp; Patented, exclusive, high demand products</font>H <p><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4)&nbsp; Comprehensive, high-tech in home training</font>M <p><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 5)&nbsp; Phenomenal support system</font>wR <p><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 6)&nbsp; Worldwide income opportunities</font>I <p><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 7)&nbsp; Exotic paid vacations</font>eO <p><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 8)&nbsp; Minimal start up investment</font>  <p><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;i \\|//</font>~ <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (o o)</font>Z <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ---------oOOo-(_)-oOOo------------</font>Y <p><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;d% ARE YOU GETTING A BIT CURIOUS?</font>IN <p><font size=-1>GREAT!&nbsp; That's fine... as long as you're serious!</font>O <br><font size=-1>Because our business is bursting at the seams, we ONLY</font>-M <br><font size=-1>have time to work with serious, motivated people who</font> E <br><font size=-1>are ready to make changes in their life NOW!</font> L <p><font size=-1>And because of the time we spend with each of you as</font>N <br><font size=-1>we help you get your business off the ground, we have</font>> <br><font size=-1>limited number of openings available.</font>_ <p><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;a% Here is what you need to do...</font>   <p><font size=-1>Log onto</font>h <br><font size=-1><A HREF="http://www.wah-international.com">http://www.wah-international.com</A></font>- <p><font size=-1>Our Trainings Are In:</font>e <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Canada - 9 Locations</font>P <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; U.S. - 29 Locations</font>~ <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; WORLDWIDE - 49 Countries</font>.M <p><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ! (With China Opening Soon!)</font>iO <p><font size=-1>I look forward to helping you get started with your new</font>eF <br><font size=-1>home business, and talking with you very soon!&nbsp; And don't</font>I <br><font size=-1>forget.....opportunity is usually disguised behind whath most</font> 0 <br><font size=-1>of us call HARD WORK!!!</font>I <p><font size=-1>Now, we don't mean to offend anyone...but here is a lists	 of</font>uL <br><font size=-1>Common Pitiful Excuses we have heard as to why this</font>O <br><font size=-1>program just COULDN'T work for them.&nbsp; You want to</font>sB <br><font size=-1>see them?&nbsp; Okay...but don't get mad!</font>: <p><font size=-1>1)&nbsp; It's too good to be true.</font>6 <br><font size=-1>2)&nbsp; It HAS to be a scam.</font>: <br><font size=-1>3)&nbsp; There HAS to be a catch.</font>3 <br><font size=-1>4)&nbsp; It must be a lie.</font> @ <br><font size=-1>5)&nbsp; This could NEVER happen to me.</font>6 <br><font size=-1>6)&nbsp; I'm not good enough.</font>7 <br><font size=-1>7)&nbsp; I'm not smart enough.</font>t0 <br><font size=-1>8)&nbsp; I'm too young.</font>. <br><font size=-1>9)&nbsp; I'm too old.</font>B <br><font size=-1>10) I'm too ugly (we just threw this in!)</font>M <p><font size=-1>Okay...see how ridiculous it sounds?&nbsp; But we can</font>lL <br><font size=-1>relate..because at some point, we thought them too.</font>A <p><font size=-1>We are obligated to tell you that your...</font>, <p><font size=-1>Age...</font>" <br><font size=-1>Skills...</font>& <br><font size=-1>Background...</font>& <br><font size=-1>Experience...</font> <br><font size=-1>or</font>e$ <br><font size=-1>Education..</font> <p><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;  DOES NOT MATTER!</font>oS <p><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;l. This business will groom you to improve</font> <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; yourself with...</font>e <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; more money, more time,</font>/x <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;$ more excitement about life...</font>l <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;' and more reasons to look forward</font>r <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; to your future!</font>M <p><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;h+ So....are you going to make EXCUSES?</font>rT <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;* Or...are you going to make CHANGES?</font>) <p><font size=-1>It's your choice.</font>2G <p><font size=-1>BUT....remember what the people in our business</font>d( <br><font size=-1>have in common?</font>9 <p><font size=-1>1)&nbsp; They saw an opportunity.</font> 6 <br><font size=-1>2)&nbsp; They were teachable.</font>A <br><font size=-1>3)&nbsp; They applied what they learned.</font> 
 <br>&nbsp;O <p><font size=-1>Do you fit the profile?&nbsp; Are we talking about YOU?</font>iU <br><font size=-1>Someone very wise told us something we've never forgotten...</font>lM <p><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;g  Successful people do what</font>N <br><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;! Unsuccessful people won't.</font> & <p><font size=-1>Which are you?</font>R <p><font size=-1>What if this really IS the opportunity you've been looking</font> <br><font size=-1>for?</font>-N <p><font size=-1>What do you have to lose by thoroughly checking it out</font>H <br><font size=-1>before making a decision that it's not for you?</font>k <p><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; **********************************************</font>9G <br><font size=-1>If you're still interested, then take the step listed-
 above.</font>-k <p><font size=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; **********************************************</font>bH <p><font size=-1>And remember...knowledge ISN'T power..ACTION IS!</font>H <p><font size=-1>We hope to hear from you if you're ready to make</font>O <br><font size=-1>some changes.&nbsp; You won't BELIEVE what will happen</font> - <br><font size=-1>to you if you are...</font> ' <p><font size=-1>Very sincerely,</font> $ <p><font size=-1>Robert Ervin</font>8 <br><font size=-1>International Training Director</font>h <br><font size=-1><A HREF="http://www.wah-international.com">http://www.wah-international.com</A></font> </body>m </html>   ( --------------AB33C784575D18AA5A47763E--   ------------------------------    Date: 12 Sep 2000 22:32:41 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)$ Subject: [JAVA] Adobe Acrobat Viewer* Message-ID: <39be92e9$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  @ I have followed the instructions (to the best of my knowlege) at  C 	http://www.openvms.compaq.com/openvms/products/ips/pdf_viewer.htmlf  L to install the ADOBE Acrobat Viewer on my Alpha (V7.2-1, JAVA V1.1.8-5, ...)F I can run InstallAnywhere and it produces the .JAR files, but startingH the viewer (with or without a PDF File parameter) always leads to a hang (of the process).b  L It does also not create the ACROBATFONTS dir or the ACROBAT.PROPERTIES file.  N I added a "-v" (verbose mode) to the invocation and it gave me a lot of lines.- It always stops after the following messages:d   ...aP [Loaded java/awt/event/InputEvent.class from /sys$common/java/lib/jdk118_classes .zip]*P [Loaded java/awt/event/KeyEvent.class from /sys$common/java/lib/jdk118_classes.z ip] P [Loaded java/awt/event/WindowEvent.class from /sys$common/java/lib/jdk118_classe s.zip]P [Loaded sun/awt/motif/ModalThread.class from /sys$common/java/lib/jdk118_classes .zip]*     Has anyone seen this, too ?*, Does that mean it hangs somewhere in MOTIF ?K MOTIF V1.2-5 (with ECO 1) is in use here. Do you think, that the ECO1 mighta: be the reason/problem ? Is the new desktop a requirement ?H Has anyone succeeded in starting/using the Adobe Acrobat Viewer on VMS ?   TIA-   -Peter  E PS: This is my first JAVA program on VMS, but hopefully not the last.n4 How many JAVA programs do you know does run on VMS ?& How many of them use InstallAnywhere ? --  < Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888A< FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netF <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.512 ************************,               Here is what you need to do...   Log onto  http://www.wah-international.com   Our Trainings Are In:@(                     Canada - 9 Locations'                     U.S. - 29 Locationsd+                    WORLDWIDE - 49 Countries-  %            (With China Opening Soon!)-  7 I look forward to helping you get started with your new,9 home business, and talking with you very soon!  And don'tB< forget.....opportunity is usually disgui8|5qc2w:fEVkXė Ļa#;˙hß$(H!5z|ubjw>|J;iq '{hT|qԓ!ǿɿ#:c6
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