1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 14 Sep 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 514       Contents: --Sent Respectfully--  Re: 164LX and VMS * 68 MILLION Email Addresses for ONLY $149!!5 Re: AS4100 w/VMS 7.2-1 console support for DE602-AA?? 5 Re: AS4100 w/VMS 7.2-1 console support for DE602-AA?? & Re: Booting OpenVMS 7.2 w/o DecWindows DEC business Link  Re: DEC business Link  Re: DEC business Link $ Example of failed disaster tolerance( Re: Example of failed disaster tolerance( Re: Example of failed disaster tolerance( Re: Example of failed disaster tolerance2 Re: FS: Cheap 164LX with 533Mhz 21164 CPU anybody?2 Re: FS: Cheap 164LX with 533Mhz 21164 CPU anybody? Halon dump - a data point  Re: Halon dump - a data point  Re: Halon dump - a data point  Re: Halon dump - a data point  Halon dump - a data point  Re: Halon dump - a data point  Re: Halon dump - a data point  Re: Halon dump - a data point  Re: Halon dump - a data point  Re: Halon dump - a data point  Re: Hobbyist Cluster?  Re: Hobbyist Cluster?  Re: Hobbyist Cluster?  Re: Hobbyist Cluster?  Re: Hobbyist Cluster?  Re: Hobbyist Cluster?  Need RWHOIS server for VMS; Re: OpenVMS and TCPIP version and support od "Dual path IP"  Opinions Please!P Re: OT: ... RE: re**3: Barrel rolls,was Re: aircraft are not Sun (no	wrolling su' Pointers for VMS 7.2 upgrade procedure. + Re: Pointers for VMS 7.2 upgrade procedure. + Re: Pointers for VMS 7.2 upgrade procedure. 1 Problems with the OpenVms web-based documentation  Running NetHack on OpenVMS  UCX SMTP mail problem w/sig file$ Re: UCX SMTP mail problem w/sig file$ Re: UCX SMTP mail problem w/sig file$ Re: UCX SMTP mail problem w/sig file$ Re: UCX SMTP mail problem w/sig file$ Re: UCX SMTP mail problem w/sig file2 Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharing2 Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharing2 Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharing2 Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharing2 Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharing2 Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharing2 Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharing2 Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharing  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 19:13:53 -0700 $ From: "M.Peric" <nrg4us@bigfoot.com> Subject: --Sent Respectfully--@ Message-ID: <200009132309.e8DN91209225@tot-wf1-we.proxy.aol.com>  U   This is not spam. You have at one point requested information on Internet business  M oppurtunities or we are both members of the same mailing group. Your address  O has been provided within a targeted list of prospects. In order to comply with  N various state law there are removal instructions located at the bottom of the G page. For those persons who do not wish to be contacted I do apolagize.      However!!   N   This is the only E-mail that you will receive from me. I have no intentions @ of re mailing you for any reason at any later date. Guaranteed!!     Dear Friend:  S   You may have seen this incredibly easy money making sytem before and not thought  M twice about it and simply deleted it. For that is what I did at least half a  & dozen times. Finally on the 7th or 8thQ time I recieved the program curiosity got the best of me and I investedmy $20.00  M and followed the instructions given. To my amazementwithin a 6 week period I  ? had recieved back more money then I had ever thought possible.  M   You can earn $40,000 - $50,000 or more in the next 90 days  simply sending  N e-mail.Honestly it really is not impossible. So please  do not delete, and do . read on for details and remember there is no   "catch" this is for real!!h   ------------------------------------------------      -----------------------------------------------      "AS SEEN ON NATIONAL T.V."    (   Thank you for your time and Interest. C   This is the letter you've been reading about in the news lately.    @   Due to the popularity of this letter on the Internet, a major >   nightly news program recently devoted an entire show to the D   investigation of the program described below to see, if it really    can make people money.    <   The show also investigated whether or not the program was @   legal. Their findings proved once and for all that there are, C   absolutely no laws prohibiting the participation in the program.  A   This has helped to show people that this is a simple, harmless  0   and fun way to make some extra money at home.   >   The results of this show has been truly remarkable. So many ?   people are participating that those involved are doing, much  8   better than ever before. Since everyone makes more as A   more people try it out, its been very exciting to be a part of  6   lately. You will understand once you experience it.      "HERE IT IS BELOW"    3   ================================================  3   ================================================    .   *** Print This Now For Future Reference ***   5   The following income opportunity is one you may be  >   interested in taking a look at. It can be started with VERY -   LITTLE investment and the income return is     TREMENDOUS!!!   3   $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$    =   If you would like to make at least $50,000 in less than 90  8   days! Please read the enclosed program...THEN READ IT    AGAIN!!!    3   $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$    ,   THIS IS A LEGITIMATE, LEGAL, MONEY MAKING 4   OPPORTUNITY. It does not require you to come into >   contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you ?   never have to leave the house except to get the mail. If you  =   believe that someday you'll get that big break that you've  @   been waiting for, THIS IS IT! Simply follow the instructions, @   and your dreams will come true. This multi-level e-mail order :   marketing program works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME. E- ?   mail is the sales tool of the future. Take advantage of this  6   non-commercialized method of advertising NOW!!! The @   longer you wait, the more people will be doing business using +   e-mail. Get your piece of this action!!!    1   MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING (MLM) has finally gained  =   respectability. It is being taught in the Harvard Business  9   School, and both Stanford Research and the Wall Street  <   Journal have stated that between 50% and 65% of all goods ?   and services will be sold through multi-level methods by the  E   mid to late 1990's. This is a Multi-Billion Dollar industry and of  ;   the 500,000 millionaires in the U.S., 20% (100,000) made  <   their fortune in the last several years in MLM. Moreover, 9   statistics show 45 people become millionaires everyday  !   through Multi-Level Marketing.    <   You may have heard this story before, but over the summer 9   Donald Trump made an appearance on the David Letterman  3   show. Dave asked him what he would do if he lost  9   everything and had to start over from scratch. Without  6   hesitating, Trump said he would find a good network :   marketing company and get to work. The audience started 9   to hoot and boo him. He looked out at the audience and  =   dead-panned his response - "That's why I'm sitting up here  &   and you are all sitting out there!"   9   With network marketing you have two sources of income.  6   Direct commissions from sales you make yourself and =   commissions from sales made by people you introduce to the     business.   9   Residual income is the secret of the wealthy. It means  :   investing time or money once and getting paid again and ?   again and again. In network marketing, it also means getting     paid for the work of others.    :   The enclosed information is something I almost let slip <   through my fingers. Fortunately, sometime later I re-read 4   everything and gave some thought and study to it.   2   My name is Johnathon Rourke. Two years ago, the ?   corporation I worked at for the past twelve years down-sized  9   and my position was eliminated. After unproductive job  :   interviews, I decided to open my own business. Over the >   past year, I incurred many unforeseen financial problems. I :   owed my family, friends and creditors over $35,000. The ?   economy was taking a toll on my business and I just couldn't  8   seem to make ends meet. I had to refinance and borrow 6   against my home to support my family and struggling 1   business. AT THAT MOMENT something significant  ?   happened in my life and I am writing to share the experience  3   in hopes that this will change your life FOREVER     FINANCIALLY!!!    ;   In mid December, I received this program via e-mail. Six  =   month's prior to receiving this program I had been sending  A   away for information on various business opportunities. All of  8   the programs I received, in my opinion, were not cost 6   effective. They were either too difficult for me to >   comprehend or the initial investment was too much for me to <   risk to see if they would work or not. One claimed that I ?   would make a million dollars in one year...it didn't tell me  '   I'd have to write a book to make it!    =   But like I was saying, in December of 1997 I received this  A   program. I didn't send for it, or ask for it, they just got my  6   name off a mailing list. THANK GOODNESS FOR THAT!!! @   After reading it several times, to make sure I was reading it :   correctly, I couldn't believe my eyes. Here was a MONEY 1   MAKING PHENOMENON. I could invest as much as I  A   wanted to start, without putting me further into debt. After I  B   got a pencil and paper and figured it out, I would at least get ;   my money back. But like most of you I was still a little  D   skeptical and a little worried about the legal aspects of it all. <   So I checked it out with the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725- ;   2161 24-hrs) and they confirmed that it is indeed legal!  4   After determining the program was LEGAL and NOT A %   CHAIN LETTER, I decided "WHY NOT."    C   Initially I sent out 10,000 E-mails. It cost me about $15 for my  B   time on-line. The great thing about E-mail is that I don't need >   any money for printing to send out the program, and because D   all of my orders are fulfilled via E-mail, the only expense is my E   time. I am telling you like it is, I hope it doesn't turn you off,  >   but I promised myself that I would not "rip-off" anyone, no $   matter how much money it cost me.   >   In less than one week, I was starting to receive orders for 9   REPORT #1. By January 13, I had received 26 orders for  2   REPORT #1. Your goal is to "RECEIVE at least 20 .   ORDERS FOR REPORT #1 WITHIN 2 WEEKS. IF YOU /   DON'T, SEND OUT MORE PROGRAMS UNTIL YOU DO!"  :   My first step in making $50,000 in 90 days was done. By 7   January 30, I had received 196 orders for REPORT #2.  4   Your goal is to "RECEIVE AT LEAST 100+ ORDERS FOR -   REPORT #2 WITHIN 2 WEEKS. IF NOT, SEND OUT  ,   MORE PROGRAMS UNTIL YOU DO. ONCE YOU HAVE 0   100 ORDERS, THE REST IS EASY, RELAX, YOU WILL 6   MAKE YOUR $50,000 GOAL." Well, I had 196 orders for 6   REPORT #2, 96 more than I needed. So I sat back and =   relaxed. By March 1, of my e-mailing of 10,000, I received  )   $58,000 with more coming in every day.    <   I paid off ALL my debts and bought a much needed new car. 9   Please take time to read the attached program, IT WILL  1   CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER!!! Remember, it won't  A   work if you don't try it. This program does work, but you must  A   follow it EXACTLY! Especially the rules of not trying to place  A   your name in a different place. It won't work, you'll lose out  <   on a lot of money! In order for this program to work, you 7   must meet your goal of 20+ orders for REPORT #1, and  9   100+ orders for REPORT #2 and you will make $50,000 or  6   more in 90 days. I AM LIVING PROOF THAT IT WORKS!!!   C   If you choose not to participate in this program, I am sorry. It  D   really is a great opportunity with little cost or risk to you. If @   you choose to participate, follow the program and you will be %   on your way to financial security.    B   If you are a fellow business owner and are if financial trouble ?   like I was, or you want to start your own business, consider     this a sign. I DID!   
   Sincerely,       Johnathon Rourke    ;   P.S. Do you have any idea what 11,700 $5 bills ($58,000)  7   look like piled up on a kitchen table? IT'S AWESOME!    7   A PERSONAL NOTE FROM THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS PROGRAM:    >   By the time you have read the enclosed program and reports, 9   you should have concluded that such a program, and one  <   that is legal, could not have been created by an amateur.   <   Let me tell you a little about myself. I had a profitable 8   business for 10 years. Then in 1979 my business began @   falling off. I was doing the same things that were previously B   successful for me, but it wasn't working. Finally, I figured it 7   out. It wasn't me, it was the economy. Inflation and  :   recession had replaced the stable economy that had been =   with us since 1945. I don't have to tell you what happened  <   to the unemployment rate... because many of you know from 6   first hand experience. There were more failures and !   bankruptcies than ever before.    6   The middle class was vanishing. Those who knew what :   they were doing invested wisely and moved up. Those who =   did not, including those who never had anything to save or  >   invest, were moving down into the ranks of the poor. As the 1   saying goes, "THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR  7   GET POORER." The traditional methods of making money  B   will never allow you to "move up" or "get rich", inflation will    see to that.    7   You have just received information that can give you  B   financial freedom for the rest of your life, with "NO RISK" and 3   "JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT." You can make more  <   money in the next few months than you have ever imagined. >   I should also point out that I will not see a penny of this <   money, nor anyone else who has provided a testimonial for 3   this program. I have already made over 4 MILLION  =   DOLLARS! I have retired from the program after sending out  =   over 16,000 programs. Now I have several offices that make  6   this and several other programs here and over seas.   3   Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do not  @   change it in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is now. @   Remember to e-mail a copy of this exciting report to everyone ;   you can think of. One of the people you send this to may  9   send out 50,000...and your name will be on everyone of  8   them! Remember though, the more you send out the more &   potential customers you will reach.   9   So my friend, I have given you the ideas, information,  ?   materials and opportunity to become financially independent,     IT IS UP TO YOU NOW!       "THINK ABOUT IT"  @   Before you delete this program from your mailbox, as I almost <   did, take a little time to read it and REALLY THINK ABOUT 9   IT. Get a pencil and figure out what could happen when  >   YOU participate. Figure out the worst possible response and ?   no matter how you calculate it, you will still make a lot of  =   money! You will definitely get back what you invested. Any  >   doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in.    IT WORKS!    Jody Jacobs, Richmond, VA     ,   HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PROGRAM WILL MAKE    YOU THOUSANDS OF DOLLAR$       INSTRUCTIONS:   3   This method of raising capital REALLY WORKS 100%  <   EVERY TIME. I am sure that you could use up to $50,000 or >   more in the next 90 days. Before you say "BULL... ", please    read this program carefully.    A   This is not a chain letter, but a perfectly legal money making  ;   opportunity. Basically, this is what you do: As with all  >   multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting <   new partners and selling our products. Every state in the ?   USA allows you to recruit new multi-level business partners,  5   and we offer a product for EVERY dollar sent. YOUR  3   ORDERS COME BY MAIL AND ARE FILLED BY E-MAIL, so  C   you are not involved in personal selling. You do it privately in  >   your own home, store or office. This is the GREATEST Multi- '   Level Mail Order Marketing anywhere:       This is what you MUST do:   A   1. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell 2!   them if you don't order them). C  5   * For each report, send $5.00 U.S CASH, the NAME & M)   NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING,  '   YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR NAME & 6/   RETURN ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the f4   person whose name appears on the list next to the +   report. MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS  '   ON YOUR ENVELOPE IN CASE OF ANY MAIL     PROBLEMS!   8   * When you place your order, make sure you order each 9   of the four reports. You will need all four reports so r5   that you can save them on your computer and resell n   them.   <   * Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of 7   the four reports. Save them on your computer so they u7   will be accessible for you to send to the 1,000's of  '   people who will order them from you. d  6   2. IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people ;   who are listed next to each report, or their sequence on u?   the list, in any way other than is instructed below in steps  ?   "a" through "f" or you will lose out on the majority of your u:   profits. Once you understand the way this works, you'll ;   also see how it doesn't work if you change it. Remember,  @   this method has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not    work.   6   a. Look below for the listing of available reports.   6   b. After you've ordered the four reports, take this 6   advertisement and remove the name and address under 7   REPORT #4. This person has made it through the cycle O*   and is no doubt counting their $50,000!   4   c. Move the name and address under REPORT #3 down    to REPORT #4.   4   d. Move the name and address under REPORT #2 down    to REPORT #3.   4   e. Move the name and address under REPORT #1 down    to REPORT #2.   9   f. Insert your name/address in the REPORT #1 position. S  ?   Please make sure you copy every name and address ACCURATELY!    D   3. Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, 7   and save it to your computer. Make NO changes to the o&   instruction portion of this letter.   >   4. Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on the /   WORLDWIDE WEB! Advertising on the WEB can be -4   very, very inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of 5   FREE places to advertise. Another avenue which you f?   could use for advertising is e-mail lists. You can buy these 05   lists for under $20/2,000 addresses or you can pay o7   someone to take care of it for you. BE SURE TO START t    YOUR AD CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY!   <   5. For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail 2   them the report they ordered. THAT'S IT! ALWAYS +   PROVIDE SAME- DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS! a:   This will help guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, 3   with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt t>   because they can't advertise until they receive the report! (   To grow fast be prompt and courteous.   -   ------------------------------------------ a   AVAILABLE REPORTS -   ------------------------------------------ e-   ***Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME*** e  	   Notes: g(   - ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH FOR EACH REPORT ,   - ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA THE QUICKEST    DELIVERY n?   - Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least     two sheets of paper ?   - On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & e@   name of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address,    and (c) your postal address.  3   ________________________________________________  =   REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES" i     ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:      Oniram   2397 Sinclair Circle   Burlington, Ontario, Canada, h	   L7P 3C3e=   (additional postage may be required when mailing to Canada)-2   _______________________________________________ 7   REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES"       ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:      Mike Vogelius    4736 Frantz Court apt#1    Winter Park. Fl. 32792   U.S.A 3   ________________________________________________ e1   REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"       ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:   
   Sunshyn    114 Woodcreek Lane l   Appling GA. 30802    U.S.A 3   ________________________________________________ g1   REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS" o     ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:   
   T.Turbo    2609 Peach Orchard Rd    Augusta. G.A. 30906    U.S.Ah3   ________________________________________________ eG   ---------------------------------------------------------------------fH   --------------------------------------------------------------------- 5   HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$ vG   ---------------------------------------------------------------------e     ---------   >   Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it @   works. Assume your goal is to get 10 people to participate on D   your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the Internet will ;   EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that everyone  2   else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline 9   members. Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING h   results below. v  =   1st level--your 10 members with $5.....................$50 $=   2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100)........$500 k=   3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000)...$5,000 a=   4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5x10,000).$50,000 $   THIS TOTALS ------> $55,550   5   Remember friends, this assumes that the people who N>   participate only recruit 10 people each. Think for a moment ?   what would happen if they got 20 people to participate! Lots  6   of people get 100s of participants! THINK ABOUT IT!   B   Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely >   you can afford $20). You obviously already have an Internet :   connection and e-mail is FREE!!! REPORT#3 shows you the ?   most productive methods for bulk e-mailing and purchasing e-  ;   mail lists. Some list & bulk e-mail vendors even work on  	   trade! m  2   About 50,000 new people get online every month!   !   *******TIPS FOR SUCCESS******* i  ,   * TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, 6   professional, and follow the directions accurately.   9   Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have a0   them when the orders start coming in because:   5   When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the t<   requested product/report to comply with the U.S. Postal & =   Lottery Laws, Title 18,Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18, i<   Section 3005 in the U.S. Code, also Code of Federal Regs. =   vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state that "a product t4   or service must be exchanged for money received."   +   * ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE     ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.   ?   * Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow s<   the instructions exactly, the results WILL undoubtedly be    SUCCESSFUL!   /   * ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW t   YOU WILL SUCCEED!   '   *******YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE*******    7   Follow these guidelines to help assure your success: n  <   If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within 8   two weeks, continue advertising until you do. Then, a ?   couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders t>   for REPORT #2. If you don't, continue advertising until you 4   do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for 2   REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is A   already working for you, and the cash can continue to roll in! t  !   THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:    :   Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are 6   placed in front of a DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP 2   TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report =   people are ordering from you. If you want to generate more y<   income, send another batch of e-mails and start the whole :   process again! There is no limit to the income you will    generate from this business!    :   PLEASE NOTE: If you need help with starting a business, :   registering a business name, learning how income tax is A   handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small Business  =   Administration (a Federal agency) 1-(800)827-5722 for free  <   help and answers to questions. Also, the Internal Revenue ;   Service offers free help via telephone and free seminars  =   about business tax requirements. Your earnings and results i@   are highly dependent on your activities and advertising. This >   letter constitutes no guarantees stated nor implied. In the =   event that it is determined that this letter constitutes a  9   guarantee of any kind, that guarantee is now void. Any DC   testimonials or amounts of earnings listed in this letter may be oE   factual or fictitious. If you have any question of the legality of  ;   this letter contact the Office of Associate Director for c9   Marketing Practices Federal Trade Commission Bureau of e(   Consumer Protection in Washington DC.   (   *******T E S T I M O N I A L S*******   :   This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY! <   Especially the rule of not trying to place your name in a =   different position, it won't work and you'll lose a lot of uC   potential income. I'm living proof that it works. It really is a .?   great opportunity to make relatively easy money, with little o;   cost to you. If you do choose to participate, follow the n:   program exactly, and you'll be on your way to financial    security.    Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS E  A   My name is Frank. My wife, Doris, and I live in Bel-Air, MD. I t;   am a cost accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I  8   make pretty good money. When I received the program I ?   grumbled to Doris about receiving "junk mail." I made fun of  ;   the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population a=   and percentages involved. I "knew" it wouldn't work. Doris 5>   totally ignored my supposed intelligence and jumped in with ?   both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay E?   the old "I told you so" on her when the thing didn't work... a6   well, the laugh was on me! Within two weeks she had 5   received over 50 responses. Within 45 days she had o;   received over $147,200 in $5 bills! I was shocked! I was  C   sure that I had it all figured and that it wouldn't work. I AM a e?   believer now. I have joined Doris in her "hobby." I did have  C   seven more years until retirement, but I think of the "rat race" t-   and it's not for me. We owe it all to MLM. n   Frank T., Bel-Air, MD   =   I just want to pass along my best wishes and encouragement d:   to you. Any doubts you have will vanish when your first >   orders come in. I even checked with the U.S. Post Office to 7   verify that the plan was legal. It definitely is! IT e   WORKS!!! 5   Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC   ?   The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this gB   system is honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to 5   get a large amount of money in a short time. I was  ?   approached several times before I checked this out. I joined  >   just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal <   effort and money required. To my astonishment, I received <   $36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks, with money still coming      Phillip A. Brown, Esq.    ;   Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to  @   make up my mind to participate in this plan. But conservative F   that I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that @   there was just no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at =   least get my money back. Boy, was I surprised when I found d<   my medium-size post office box crammed with orders! For a @   while, it got so overloaded that I had to start picking up my >   mail at the window. I'll make more money this year than any @   10 years of my life before. The nice thing about this deal is B   that it doesn't matter where in the U.S. the people live. There 9   simply isn't a better investment with a faster return. n   Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI    @   I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I @   wondered if I shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had ?   no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait  ?   until I was E-mailed another program...11 months passed then .A   it came...I didn't delete this one!...I made more than $41,000     on the first try!! 0   D. Wilburn, Muncie, IN o  B   This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have quit ?   our jobs, and will soon buy a home on the beach and live off a=   the interest on our money. The only way on earth that this oA   plan will work for you is if you do it. For your sake, and for h<   your family's sake don't pass up this golden opportunity.     Good luck and happy spending! !   Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA 1       ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND .   GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO    FINANCIAL FREEDOM! u      NOW IS THE TIME FOR YOUR TURN      DECISIVE ACTION YIELDS     POWERFUL RESULTS  E   ================================================================== cN   To be REMOVED from this list click reply on your tool bar. Then type REMOVE 8 in the subject area of a new e-mail. Then click on send.      ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:20:27 -0400s5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>g Subject: Re: 164LX and VMS, Message-ID: <8pok5o$79hf$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  K First of all, it's Compaq, not Decpaq.  I'd also like to know *exactly* howeJ you managed to order it.  The LX is absolutely not a supported platform byL OpenVMS, and it is likely to be more than just non-support of an option.  ToJ my knowledge there has NEVER been a support statement for this, and it hasJ NEVER been qualified.  And also as far as I know it is NOT in a price bookJ as being supported by VMS... which is why I would like to know how exactly it was ordered.B   _FredO  # Paul Repacholi wrote in message ...e >xA >But Fred, you can order on from Decpac with a VMS licence in theu
 >part-number!o >e? >The 'some widget don't work all the time' is no big deal if ite >not a listed VMS do-hickey. >  >--a= >Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,e8 >+61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.A >                                             West Australia 6076m/ >Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.A   ------------------------------  * Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 08:03:59 +0120 (PM)! From: sixtyeightmil@unbounded.coml3 Subject: 68 MILLION Email Addresses for ONLY $149!!a- Message-ID: <0G0U009C7XCC7M@mx.east.saic.com>m  a TO BE REMOVED FROM FUTURE MAILINGS, SIMPLY REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE AND PUT "REMOVE" IN THE SUBJECT.o    
    68 MILLION   EMAIL ADDRESSES   FOR ONLY $149           o   You want to make some money? i  J   I can put you in touch with over 50 million people at virtually no cost.  2   Can you make one cent from each of theses names?  1 If you can you have a profit of over $500,000.00 b    0   That's right, I have 68 Million  Fresh  email   8 addresses that I will sell for only $149. These are all   1 fresh addresses that include almost every person u  6 on the Internet today, with no duplications. They are   5 all sorted and ready to be mailed.  That is the best w  4 deal anywhere today!  Imagine selling a product for   6 only $5 and getting only a 1% response.   That's  OVER   $3,000,000 IN YOUR POCKET !!!   ,3   Don't believe it? People are making that kind of    1 money right now by doing the same thing, that is    2 why you get so much email from people selling you   8 their product....it works!  I will even tell you how to   + mail them with easy to follow step-by-step U  ) instructions I include with every order. l  / I will send you a copy of every law concerning l  - email. It is easy to obey the law and make a    2 fortune. These 68 Million email addresses are       , yours to keep, so you can use them over and    over and they come on 2 CDs.    1   This offer is not for everyone. If you can not    3 see the just how excellent the risk / reward ratio p  0 in this offer is then there is nothing I can do   / for you.  To make money you must stop dreaming o   and TAKE ACTION.    ( ****************************************   THE BRONZE MARKETING SETUP    68,000,000 email addresses on CD    These name are all in text files   ready to mail!!!   $149.00   ( ****************************************   THE SILVER MARKETING SETUP    68,000,000 email addresses on CD    These name are all in text files   ready to mail!!!       AND  ! Several different email programs M  % and tools  to help with your mailingsA   and list management.   $ 189.00  ( ****************************************   THE GOLD MARKETING SETUP   VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING!!    68,000,000 email addresses on CD    These name are all in text files   ready to mail!!!       AND  ! Several different email programs o  % and tools  to help with your mailings    and list management.                AND    # Over 500 different Business Reportsd  ( now being sold on the Internet for up to  . $100 each. You get full rights to resell these   reports.  / With this package you get the email addresses,    - the software to mail them AND ready to sell  .   information products.    AND ...... e  , .. a collection of the 100 best money making  / adds currently floating around on the Internet.r   $ 249i  = *************************************************************t SEVERAL WAYS TO ORDER !!!   t IF YOU ORDER BY PHONE OR FAX WE WILL SHIP YOUR CD CONTAINING THE 68 MILLION + NAMES WITHIN 12 HOURS OF YOUR ORDER!!!    h0 WE ACCEPT:  AMERICAN EXPRESS,  VISA & MASTERCARD  l2     TYPE OF CARD  AMX / VISA / MC??_______________  1     EXPIRATION DATE   ___________________________h  o/     NAME ON CREDIT CARD________________________e  e1     CREDIT CARD #________________________________h  m0     BILLING ADDRESS ____________________________  g1     CITY_________________________________________u  r1     STATE________________ZIP_____________________   e.     PHONE INCLUDE AREA CODE___________________     0     EMAIL ADDRESS______________________________   A     WE WILL BILL selected amount to your account plus one of the     following shipping costs:k  ,      SHIPPING  COST OF 3.85 FIRST CLASS MAIL  D      SHIPPING COST OF  15.00  24 HOUR EXPRESS MAIL / FEDERAL EXPRESS   '      + SALES TAX  added where required    n@    1) FAX your order and a copy of your SIGNED check payable to   6 Cyberdata  for the appropriate amount to 530-343-1808.    >    2) Fax the same above requested credit card information to    530-343-1808.     E  :    3) Call phone # 530-343-9681.  This is a 24 hour phone   : number to place a CREDIT CARD order. This is an ORDER LINE   only.i    p ALL INFORMATION NECESSARY FOR YOU TO SUCCESSFULLY MAIL QUICKLY, PROPERLY, & LEGALLY IS PROVIDED WITH YOUE ORDER.     Copyright 2000   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Sep 2000 17:07:25 PDTT From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515)> Subject: Re: AS4100 w/VMS 7.2-1 console support for DE602-AA??3 Message-ID: <aQdpUgvpNHOU@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>   9 > In article <8plhla$nbu$5@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, h; >     	hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:- > B >>   For DE602-related information, please take a look at the URL: >> -O >>     http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/options/as4100/as4100_3x-de602-aa.html  >> oK >>   In particular, the SRM minimum version requirement for this widget is VJ >>   V5.6-3, with V5.8-2 looking to be the current firmware release.  See: >> tK >>     ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/Alpha/firmware/readmes/as4x00.htmli  H         I tried  all  afternoon  yesterday,  and  again  a various timesH     today,  and I can't get through to that URL.  The browser (NS  3.03)H     just sits and spins.  I also tried anonymous ftp to  ftp.digital.comH     but  _that_ just hangs as well...in a _very_ strange way.  I'm usingH     Multinet 4.2A-X and when I Ctrl/C to  get back to the ftp prompt, itH     shows,  "FTP.DIGITAL.COM>",  but it won't accept (or act  upon)  any4     commands, include Ctrl/Z.  I have to Ctrl/Y out!  H         Is it fair to  conclude  that  ftp.digital.com  is hosed?  Or isH     there some other magic incantation and/or sacrificial lamb required?           -Ken -- _M  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Edu :  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924:  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515N  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------B  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 00:21:07 GMT_= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)-> Subject: Re: AS4100 w/VMS 7.2-1 console support for DE602-AA??0 Message-ID: <009F0148.9CE24FAB@SendSpamHere.ORG>   In article <aQdpUgvpNHOU@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>, Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515) writes:: >> In article <8plhla$nbu$5@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, < >>     	hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes: >> fC >>>   For DE602-related information, please take a look at the URL:Y >>> P >>>     http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/options/as4100/as4100_3x-de602-aa.html >>> L >>>   In particular, the SRM minimum version requirement for this widget is K >>>   V5.6-3, with V5.8-2 looking to be the current firmware release.  See:$ >>> L >>>     ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/Digital/Alpha/firmware/readmes/as4x00.html >rI >        I tried  all  afternoon  yesterday,  and  again  a various timeseI >    today,  and I can't get through to that URL.  The browser (NS  3.03)f  L www.networks.digital.com too.  I can't even get it to resolve to an address.  + ... and I really need to get there too.  :(      --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:25:52 -0400s5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>h/ Subject: Re: Booting OpenVMS 7.2 w/o DecWindowsl, Message-ID: <8pokft$79nb$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  L This annoys me as much as anyone.  I liked the way WINDOW_SYSTEM = 0 worked.E But, at the time this one slipped right by... you see, the DECwindows J developers at the time were being beaten up by someone about the fact thatH for some reason new systems didn't have the parameter set, and new usersH would get the glass TTY instead of the window system.  So they made this "foolish" decision (IMHO).  I Now, you actually have to edit SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM and edit in a logical ton stop it from starting.    K Hoff Hoffman wrote in message <8pjkr0$f5c$3@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>...S >i; >In article <39BCD9B7.40D9A7DF@Mvb.Saic.Com>, Mark Berrymanm$ <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> writes: >:Hoff Hoffman wrote:S >..A$ >:>   Ya just can't win sometimes... >: >:Sure ya can... >:3 >:WINDOW_SYSTEM = 0     ;VMS will decide what to do D >:WINDOW_SYSTEM = 1     ;I really know what I want, start DECwindows >:regardless@ >:WINDOW_SYSTEM = 2     ;I really know what I want, do NOT start >:DECwindows >:I >:In other words, simply add a state where VMS *knows* the system managersE >:has chosen not to start DECwindows and doesn't have to assume (s)he  >:simply forgot. >dJ >  While I certainly understand the intent, you just started up VWS... :-) > + > --------------------------- pure personalo# opinion --------------------------- 0 >   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:26:25 -0400e/ From: "McCarthy Kevin P." <McCarthyKP@BWSC.ORG>: Subject: DEC business Link: Message-ID: <1B14DF408B45D411965D0000F8662DEE077762@NTSV2>  F I used to use the DEC business link to get pricing... it does not work4 now.. It was only a few months ago that it worked???   www.businesslink.digital.com  ! Is there something else to use???r   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 23:23:43 GMT + From: Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com.nospam>N Subject: Re: DEC business Link0 Message-ID: <39C00CA3.A2D769E7@wi.rr.com.nospam>  + It has moved to www.businesslink.compaq.comn   -scott   "McCarthy Kevin P." wrote:  H > I used to use the DEC business link to get pricing... it does not work6 > now.. It was only a few months ago that it worked??? >  > www.businesslink.digital.com >o# > Is there something else to use???e   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Sep 2000 16:57:07 PDTT From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515) Subject: Re: DEC business Link3 Message-ID: <V3EZfo5Ovdij@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>a  ; In article <1B14DF408B45D411965D0000F8662DEE077762@NTSV2>,  5     "McCarthy Kevin P." <McCarthyKP@BWSC.ORG> writes:tH > I used to use the DEC business link to get pricing... it does not work6 > now.. It was only a few months ago that it worked??? >  > www.businesslink.digital.com  H         Yep, still working, just got a price today. :-)  But you'll need/     to change "digital" to "compaq" in the URL:   +         http://www.businesslink.compaq.com/o                 -Ken -- yM  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Edut:  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924:  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515N  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------B  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:30:18 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> - Subject: Example of failed disaster tolerance , Message-ID: <39BFD5BA.709044FF@videotron.ca>  H Not VMS related since it is an airline, but interesting to those with an/ interest in building disaster tolerant systems.n    " HOUSTON, Sept. 12 /PRNewswire/ -- K Continental Airlines is reporting that many flights tonight will be delayedlF as a result of an interruption in the power supply supporting computerI equipment critical to the airline's System Operations Coordination Center # (SOCC) at its Houston headquarters.a  E The situation arose when a back-up power supply was shut down by fire , department personnel as a safety precaution.  I The airline is implementing back-up procedures that it expects will allowa# it resume operations later tonight.   E The power supply was lost at approximately 5 p.m. CDT and temporarily . prevents Continental from dispatching flights.3 Approximately 300-400 evening flights are affected. 5 Flights that are en route are continuing normally andwK their passengers will not be affected if they are not connecting to anotheru Continental flight.n  D Reservations and flight information are available at 1.800.523.3273.< Automated flight information is available at 1.800.784.4444.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:01:38 -0400l. From: "David Rabahy" <David.Rabahy@compaq.com>1 Subject: Re: Example of failed disaster tolerancey* Message-ID: <8pomf9$1ns@usenet.pa.dec.com>  : How does being an airline necessarily imply it is not VMS?  = JF Mezei wrote in message <39BFD5BA.709044FF@videotron.ca>...rI >Not VMS related since it is an airline, but interesting to those with ani0 >interest in building disaster tolerant systems.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 20:13:02 GMTg From: byatesiii@my-deja.comk1 Subject: Re: Example of failed disaster tolerancea) Message-ID: <8pon3q$fl0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>d  , In article <39BFD5BA.709044FF@videotron.ca>,0   JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:G > Not VMS related since it is an airline, but interesting to those withf an1 > interest in building disaster tolerant systems.r >sD It is my understanding that Delta uses VMS in Atlanta... Not sure if they are Vaxen or Alpha...    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.f   ------------------------------   Date: 13 SEP 2000 20:42:10 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)1 Subject: Re: Example of failed disaster tolerance 6 Message-ID: <13SEP00.20421032@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  E In a previous article, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:e -> n$ ->HOUSTON, Sept. 12 /PRNewswire/ -- M ->Continental Airlines is reporting that many flights tonight will be delayeddH ->as a result of an interruption in the power supply supporting computerK ->equipment critical to the airline's System Operations Coordination Centeru% ->(SOCC) at its Houston headquarters.o  H Their computer was down for at least an hour during one of the few timesG I travel by air (returning from Decus - Providence as I recall). Sat on B the runway waiting for it to come back. So this is not an isolatedB incident. Because of that and other numerous incidents I now avoidA Continental at all costs. Trouble was they kept giving out travellH vouchers for their screw ups so I'd have no choice but to use them - andH then get more vouchers. Got a one and a half free vacations this way but" it's really not worth the hassles.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:35:38 -0400=5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>o; Subject: Re: FS: Cheap 164LX with 533Mhz 21164 CPU anybody?n, Message-ID: <8pol29$79je$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  H Aspen et al sold varients of the original Alpha Reference Board (PC64 orK something like that).  The problem with the LX is that while the people whosJ built it used the same family ID as the PC164, it is *really* a varient of* the DPW family (using the Pyxis chip set).      @ Osmo Kujala wrote in message <8pkkli$ctg$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>...4 >Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote: >>   OpenVMS has NOo: >>   code to support the 164LX and has not tested with it. >oJ >I guess this is true as seen from Compaqs side, but there are 164LX basedJ >"clone" models which are tested and sold with OpenVMS and OpenVMS doesn't/ >need any additions or patches to run in 164LX.  >lK >If you read Alpha8 and Alpha13 from FAQ, it looks like Multia and AXPpci33 C >are more ready to run OpenVMS than 164LX, which is quite opposite.'F >Multia and AXPpci33 needed extra routines to run VMS. I hope somebodyB >could collect table of motherboards and their ability to run VMS. >Something like: >7? >Board        Supported        Running unsupp.   Notes,links... * >             VMS version      VMS version, >                              R=only rumourH >-----------------------------------------------------------------------H >AXPpci33     -                7.2               VMS FAQ: Alpha8,Alpha13  >DP264        -                R >EB164        7.1,7.2x >EB64+        7.1,7.2B >EB66         ?T >EB66+        ?P* >PC164        -                R 6.2-7.2-1( >PC164LX      -                6.?-7.2-1  >PC164RX      -                ?E >PC164SX      -                R                 CD-inst.version runstF >                                                full version unstable8 >PC164UX      -                -                 no SRM? >PC64         7.1,7.2,@ >UDB/Multia   -                6.2-1H3,7.1-2,7.2 VMS FAQ: Alpha85 >UP1000       -                ?                 SRM?s5 >UP1100       -                ?                 SRM?e2 >UP2000       -                R                 ?8 >XL266        -                -?                no SRM?2 >XL366        -                "                 "2 >XL433        -                "                 " >PICMG 4/*    7.1-1H1,7.2R >PICMG 5/*    7.1-1H1,7.2e >CompactPCIp >     CS-1000 7.1-2,7.2f  >(maybe some systems included?): >ALPHAbook 1  ,7.1, 7.2, >  >  >regards >          Osmo Kujala   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:32:12 -0400l5 From: "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com>s; Subject: Re: FS: Cheap 164LX with 533Mhz 21164 CPU anybody?v, Message-ID: <8pokrr$7960$1@lead.zk3.dec.com>  I Actually, you will have better luck with the 264DP.  The LX really *is* a K system we have not done *any* testing on, and we *know* is different enoughDE to have problems.  The 264DP on the other hand, was the EV6 referenceuK platform that we used to do DS20 development on, and I have on in my officenL I use every day.  While we haven't qual'ed it, or issued any type of supportK statement, *I* will make an unqualified statement that VMS works as well asI it does on a "real" DS20.l      K Hoff Hoffman wrote in message <8p8j7g$o20$3@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>...  > C >In article <8p8fiq$1vii$1@news.aha.ru>, "pbc" <pbc@aha.ru> writes:P6 >:I pesonally installed OpenVMS 7.2 on several 164LXs.
 >:Works fine.s > ! >  Good for you, glad to hear it.a >iJ >  The 164LX box itself is fairly close to certain members of the PersonalH >  Workstation series, and -- like the Personal Workstation -a series --J >  whether or not OpenVMS might work on it is hit-or-miss.  OpenVMS has NOJ >  code to support the 164LX and has not tested with it.  OpenVMS does NOT& >  support the widget, in other words. >nD >  I've also heard that OpenVMS can bootstrap on the Alpha ProcessorH >  AlphaPC 264DP series.  Like the 164LX, OpenVMS has NO code to supportI >  the 264DP and has not tested with it, and OpenVMS does NOT support it.  >oJ >  There are also no OpenVMS licenses available for either of these boxes,& >  other than the hobbyist licenses... >o+ > --------------------------- pure personalo# opinion ---------------------------s0 >   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >*   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 20:39:17 -0400U+ From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>O" Subject: Halon dump - a data point1 Message-ID: <39BFE5F5.17693B7A@trailing-edge.com>R  G A couple years ago we had a thread about Halon fire-suppressing systems_= used in computer rooms.   Through the school of hard knocks, _3 I just learned first hand how such systems operate._  E Today at work (let's just call it a "large employer in the WashingtonNA DC area") we had a memorable incident in Operations Control when _8 someone (with undoubtedly good intentions) unscrewed the= solenoid controlling the valve and dumped - without warning -_5 2500 pounds of Halon 1301 into the room in just a few_@ seconds.  (Operations is a *big* room.  It was fitted with eight giant red tanks of Halon.)  = Normally there'd be a thirty-second delay as an audible alarmL< allowed the occupants to clear the room, but this feature is, bypassed if you go straight to the solenoid!  = The sudden pressure from the halon dump sent numerous ceilingeF tiles flying, as well as large stacks of paper that were blown off the= consoles.  Not everyone evacuated immediately - several folksn@ in safety-critical roles stuck around for ten or fifteen minutesC until the firefighters showed up with air packs that allowed others ; to relieve them.  Some who did stick around eventually left > in ambulances (I *hope* just to run some precautionary tests.)  B The good news: the computers didn't hiccup at all during all this.  9 Moderately good news: Halon dumps aren't instantly fatal.a? Seeing as how I spend a good fraction of my day within a couplej> of feet of some giant red Halon tanks in the concrete bunker -D oops, officially it's called "computer room" - this is good to know.C I'd been heavily trained that when the Halon dump alarm sounds, youeC *get out*.  Now I know a little more, especially about the dead-mani= switch you can use to delay an electronically-triggered dump.p  @ This Halon is Good Stuff.  Other than some grit blasted from the= ceiling tiles, there was zero debris left in the machinery.  w< What's the "environmentally friendly" equivalent used today?A Is there such an equivalent - something that will put out a fire,g0 but at the same time not damage vital equipment?   Tim.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 01:01:30 GMTn4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>& Subject: Re: Halon dump - a data point= Message-ID: <KrVv5.22722$pu4.1955993@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>n  I > A couple years ago we had a thread about Halon fire-suppressing systemsn> > used in computer rooms.   Through the school of hard knocks,5 > I just learned first hand how such systems operate.  > G > Today at work (let's just call it a "large employer in the Washington B > DC area") we had a memorable incident in Operations Control when: > someone (with undoubtedly good intentions) unscrewed the? > solenoid controlling the valve and dumped - without warning - 7 > 2500 pounds of Halon 1301 into the room in just a fewdB > seconds.  (Operations is a *big* room.  It was fitted with eight > giant red tanks of Halon.) >-? > Normally there'd be a thirty-second delay as an audible alarm-> > allowed the occupants to clear the room, but this feature is. > bypassed if you go straight to the solenoid! >e? > The sudden pressure from the halon dump sent numerous ceilingBH > tiles flying, as well as large stacks of paper that were blown off the? > consoles.  Not everyone evacuated immediately - several folks.B > in safety-critical roles stuck around for ten or fifteen minutesE > until the firefighters showed up with air packs that allowed othersw= > to relieve them.  Some who did stick around eventually left>@ > in ambulances (I *hope* just to run some precautionary tests.)  L That's a safe assumption. Halon systems are designed to flood enclosed areasH with 4-7 percent Halon, people have withstood concentrations of up to 15E percent with no lasting ill effects. 15 percent and above can lead totH irregular heartbeat, significantly higher concentrations will reduce the@ oxygen level in the air below the 15 percent required to support respiration.   >aD > The good news: the computers didn't hiccup at all during all this. > ; > Moderately good news: Halon dumps aren't instantly fatal.rA > Seeing as how I spend a good fraction of my day within a couplec@ > of feet of some giant red Halon tanks in the concrete bunker -F > oops, officially it's called "computer room" - this is good to know.E > I'd been heavily trained that when the Halon dump alarm sounds, youiE > *get out*.  Now I know a little more, especially about the dead-man ? > switch you can use to delay an electronically-triggered dump.0 >:B > This Halon is Good Stuff.  Other than some grit blasted from the= > ceiling tiles, there was zero debris left in the machinery. > > What's the "environmentally friendly" equivalent used today?C > Is there such an equivalent - something that will put out a fire,i2 > but at the same time not damage vital equipment? >e  L Well, there's carbon dioxide, but in concentrations sufficient to extinguish  flames it'll also suffocate you.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 01:40:57 GMTn* From: don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes)& Subject: Re: Halon dump - a data point6 Message-ID: <968895656.318788@shelley.paradise.net.nz>  3 Terry C. Shannon <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:  >Tim Shoppa wrote:C >> This Halon is Good Stuff.  Other than some grit blasted from thei> >> ceiling tiles, there was zero debris left in the machinery.? >> What's the "environmentally friendly" equivalent used today? D >> Is there such an equivalent - something that will put out a fire,3 >> but at the same time not damage vital equipment?  >> > M >Well, there's carbon dioxide, but in concentrations sufficient to extinguisha! >flames it'll also suffocate you.   H A common replacement is "Inergen" -- a mix of nitrogen, argon and CO2.  C The CO2 is what makes it *non* fatal; the trick is that the dump is D sized to the room to bring the O2 level down, (especially low in theD room -- argon is heavy), and the raised CO2 level tells the lungs ofB anyone left in the room to work harder in the lower oxygen levels.  D The breathing reflex in humans is triggered by CO2 level; if you rigG yourself up to a closed system, so you re-breathe your own exhaust, theMH CO2 levels build up and the lungs work harder until things reach a pointF where a panic response it triggered.  If you put a CO2 scrubber in theD system, your lungs will completely fail to notice the diminishing O2D levels, and you'll pass out (and if not rescued, die) without really	 noticing.e  I Halon works by breaking down in high temperatures in a highly endothermic1C reaction, not by simply lowering the oxygen level as in the InergenND scheme.  As such, it leaves some fairly nasty by-products, includingF bromic acid, although usually only in the vicinity of the actual fire. And of course it's a CFC.:  E Still, Inergen sites usually have illuminated "GET OUT NOW" signs foro: when the gas is about to be dumped, just like halon sites.   -- don   ------------------------------   Date: 14 Sep 2000 01:59:30 GMT1 From: jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard)0& Subject: Re: Halon dump - a data pointO Message-ID: <786619A6E2C57045.497C1079095516F5.CB1104C894894157@lp.airnews.net>s  M On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 01:40:57 GMT, Don Stokes <don@news.daedalus.co.nz> wrote:B: >The breathing reflex in humans is triggered by CO2 level;  K Normal humans. Folks who suffer from chronic obstructive pulmonary diseasesnI (emphysema and such) have CO2 levels that build up in their system highertF than usual; their breathing drive becomes based on hypoxia, instead ofJ elevated CO2, over extended periods of time. This is a very small fractionJ of the population, but for those who have such a condition, the difference can be critical.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:10:41 -0400l2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>" Subject: Halon dump - a data point7 Message-ID: <200009132210_MC2-B348-F015@compuserve.com>-  E         Wait till they find out how much it will cost to recharge theTJ system!  I suspect it would be cheaper to put out fires by burying them i= n-= pure gold!!!!!   Halon used to be relatively inexpensive.  Nor more!!!!!!!!!!!!    " Message text written by Tim ShoppaH >A couple years ago we had a thread about Halon fire-suppressing systems> used in computer rooms.   Through the school of hard knocks, =  3 I just learned first hand how such systems operate.a  E Today at work (let's just call it a "large employer in the WashingtonsB DC area") we had a memorable incident in Operations Control when =  8 someone (with undoubtedly good intentions) unscrewed the= solenoid controlling the valve and dumped - without warning -a5 2500 pounds of Halon 1301 into the room in just a fewh@ seconds.  (Operations is a *big* room.  It was fitted with eight giant red tanks of Halon.)  = Normally there'd be a thirty-second delay as an audible alarmd< allowed the occupants to clear the room, but this feature is, bypassed if you go straight to the solenoid!  = The sudden pressure from the halon dump sent numerous ceilingiF tiles flying, as well as large stacks of paper that were blown off the= consoles.  Not everyone evacuated immediately - several folks @ in safety-critical roles stuck around for ten or fifteen minutesC until the firefighters showed up with air packs that allowed others ; to relieve them.  Some who did stick around eventually left > in ambulances (I *hope* just to run some precautionary tests.)  B The good news: the computers didn't hiccup at all during all this.  9 Moderately good news: Halon dumps aren't instantly fatal.o? Seeing as how I spend a good fraction of my day within a coupleb> of feet of some giant red Halon tanks in the concrete bunker -D oops, officially it's called "computer room" - this is good to know.C I'd been heavily trained that when the Halon dump alarm sounds, younC *get out*.  Now I know a little more, especially about the dead-man-= switch you can use to delay an electronically-triggered dump.j  @ This Halon is Good Stuff.  Other than some grit blasted from the> ceiling tiles, there was zero debris left in the machinery.  =  < What's the "environmentally friendly" equivalent used today?A Is there such an equivalent - something that will put out a fire,t0 but at the same time not damage vital equipment?   Tim. <e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 03:54:51 GMTr( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>& Subject: Re: Halon dump - a data point' Message-ID: <G0uyvF.MAr@spcuna.spc.edu>-  F In alt.folklore.computers Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote:G > Today at work (let's just call it a "large employer in the WashingtoneC > DC area") we had a memorable incident in Operations Control when  : > someone (with undoubtedly good intentions) unscrewed the? > solenoid controlling the valve and dumped - without warning -i7 > 2500 pounds of Halon 1301 into the room in just a few>B > seconds.  (Operations is a *big* room.  It was fitted with eight > giant red tanks of Halon.)  K   If you take the cost out of their salary, you'll have several generationsdB of clueless-but-well-intentioned people working there for free 8-)  ? > The sudden pressure from the halon dump sent numerous ceilingnH > tiles flying, as well as large stacks of paper that were blown off the > consoles.l  >   No under-floor heads, eh? You can launch floor tiles, too...  ; > Moderately good news: Halon dumps aren't instantly fatal.oA > Seeing as how I spend a good fraction of my day within a couplet@ > of feet of some giant red Halon tanks in the concrete bunker -F > oops, officially it's called "computer room" - this is good to know.E > I'd been heavily trained that when the Halon dump alarm sounds, you E > *get out*.  Now I know a little more, especially about the dead-manp? > switch you can use to delay an electronically-triggered dump.1  J   It depends on *which* halon compound. 1211 is normally used in hand-heldH extinguishers, while 1301 is normally used in full-room systems like the one you had.  9   From the respective MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets):*  '   1211: http://www.h3r.com/MSDS1211.pdf   ' ! SECTION 5 - HEALTH HAZARDS HALON 1211tG ! Inhalation: Exposures to concentrations of this material above 4% forx: |	longer than one (1) minute can cause toxic side effects.M | Signs and Symptoms - Acute Overexposure: Dizziness, impaired coordination, sF |	reduced mental acuity, and cardiac effects above 4% concentration inE |	excess of one minute. Unconsciousness or even death in high concen-i! |	trations with longer exposures.l  '   1301: http://www.h3r.com/MSDS1301.pdf   B | SECTION 5 - HEALTH HAZARDS HALON 1301, FREON FE 1301 (Continued)M | Inhalation: Vapor is heavier than air and can cause suffocation by reducingtD |	oxygen available for breathing. Breathing very high concentrationsE |	of vapor can cause lightheadedness, giddiness, shortness of breath, F |	and may lead to narcosis, cardiac irregularities, unconsciousness or
 |	even death. L | Signs and Symptoms - Acute Overexposure: Dizziness, impaired coordination,G |	reduced mental acuity, and cardiac effects can occur. Unconsciousness2= |	or even death in high concentrations with longer exposures.   B > This Halon is Good Stuff.  Other than some grit blasted from the? > ceiling tiles, there was zero debris left in the machinery.  1> > What's the "environmentally friendly" equivalent used today?C > Is there such an equivalent - something that will put out a fire,t2 > but at the same time not damage vital equipment?  I   Yes. FM-200 seems to be the agent of choice these days in telco switch- 7 rooms, datacenters, and so forth. http://www.fm-200.com   - 	Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.comU5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USAU   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 00:41:38 -0400 , From: Howard S Shubs <hshubs@mindspring.com>& Subject: Re: Halon dump - a data point> Message-ID: <hshubs-B5AD13.00413814092000@news.mindspring.com>  7 In article <968895656.318788@shelley.paradise.net.nz>, -+ don@news.daedalus.co.nz (Don Stokes) wrote:t  F >Still, Inergen sites usually have illuminated "GET OUT NOW" signs for; >when the gas is about to be dumped, just like halon sites.   M I've never had any training wrt Halon or other such products.  What should I F know, other than "GET OUT NOW"?z -- c Howard S Shubs# "Run in circles, scream and shout!"4   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 00:53:32 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> & Subject: Re: Halon dump - a data point+ Message-ID: <39C059C9.8519EA3@videotron.ca>e   Tim Shoppa wrote:e > I > A couple years ago we had a thread about Halon fire-suppressing systems > > used in computer rooms.   Through the school of hard knocks,5 > I just learned first hand how such systems operate.p  I Having been laughed at in one such debate because nobody beleived me thatsM Halon extinguishers contain severe warnings on them, I have stopped bothering8G with such debates. Some guy even tried to convince me I was clueless byiM showing exactly what chemical reaction occured when halon was in contact with.J fire. Problem is that he never included all the components of halon in hisL chemical reactions and conveniently omitted stuff such as fluor and chlorineK from his equations (remember that Halon is a CFC, and guess what CFC stands  for ?).r  N You can think what you want. I don't care. And yes, Halon isn't dangerous whenE released, but beware when it does enter in contact with hot surfaces.t  ) The warning on my extinguishers reads as:h   WARNINGpK Dangerous gas formed when used to extinguish flame or on contact with heat.e    K So, until I see a FULL formula of all the byproducts of Halon when it comesaI into contact with heat/fire, I will continue to trust the warnings on the K extinguishers and dismiss the speculation from all those who claim Halon is M perfectly safe. I'll let them test Darwin's theories by staying in a computer-N room during halon discharge, especially if there are hot surfaces somewhere in	 the room.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:13:56 -0700r! From: Koloth <koloth@tmisnet.com>e& Subject: Re: Halon dump - a data point+ Message-ID: <39C05E94.A318AFF6@tmisnet.com>d  M I worked at to remain unnamed company with a large enclosure that needed firemL protection.  The space was 180' by 130' by 90'.  Needless to say it needed aL large amount of Halon.  I think the tanks outside were about the size of twoQ railroad tanker cars.  I remember when we were designing this enclosure we had toeQ limit how fast the Halon was released.  If it went to fast it would blow the roofoM off.  Also we had to be sure that after the Halon discharges and expanded andl@ cooled that the reduced air pressure would not suck the roof in.  Q We picked Halon over water because if we used water we would have had to dump thebP equivalent of one Olympic pool of water per minute.  Not to mention the resevior we would have to build.   H Due to a lose wire in the fire detection system the Halon dumped withoutO warning.  A man was in a crane basket in the middle of the enclosure.  NeedlessrQ to say he did a dump too.  The weirdest thing was that the temperature drop belowo the dew point.  Instant FOG!  Q That dump cost $750,000 in mid 1980 dollars.  In the late 90's the same Halon wasa; worth $125 million.  Best investment the company ever made.k    K On a more serious note.  We had a site that tested their CO2 system and hadt9 several CPU board failures in 8400s due to thermal shock.    Cass Witkowski   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:50:07 -0500 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>e& Subject: Re: Halon dump - a data point- Message-ID: <39C04AEF.ED5ED86D@earthlink.net>"   Tim Shoppa wrote:  > I > A couple years ago we had a thread about Halon fire-suppressing systemss> > used in computer rooms.   Through the school of hard knocks,5 > I just learned first hand how such systems operate.a > G > Today at work (let's just call it a "large employer in the WashingtoneB > DC area") we had a memorable incident in Operations Control when: > someone (with undoubtedly good intentions) unscrewed the? > solenoid controlling the valve and dumped - without warning -u7 > 2500 pounds of Halon 1301 into the room in just a fewnB > seconds.  (Operations is a *big* room.  It was fitted with eight > giant red tanks of Halon.) > ? > Normally there'd be a thirty-second delay as an audible alarm > > allowed the occupants to clear the room, but this feature is. > bypassed if you go straight to the solenoid! > ? > The sudden pressure from the halon dump sent numerous ceiling H > tiles flying, as well as large stacks of paper that were blown off the? > consoles.  Not everyone evacuated immediately - several folkseB > in safety-critical roles stuck around for ten or fifteen minutesE > until the firefighters showed up with air packs that allowed othersn= > to relieve them.  Some who did stick around eventually left @ > in ambulances (I *hope* just to run some precautionary tests.) > D > The good news: the computers didn't hiccup at all during all this. > ; > Moderately good news: Halon dumps aren't instantly fatal.hA > Seeing as how I spend a good fraction of my day within a couplec@ > of feet of some giant red Halon tanks in the concrete bunker -F > oops, officially it's called "computer room" - this is good to know.  D Well, as others have pointed out, part of the idea is that the Halon will reduce the O2 ratio.s  H In a "normal" dump scenario, the room power should get killed, includingF power to the air handlers. While not toxic of itself, Halon is heavierG than "air" and will displace the oxygen-bearing atmosphere when the twow are allowed to stratify.  E It's really a two-pronged attack: dilute the O2 even further than thes= usual percentage found in the atmosphere, and/or displace thel< oxygen-bearing atmosphere to a level above the combustibles.  C In either case, oxygen-dependent life forms are in danger; however, H survival is possible. In your case, if power to the air handlers was notH cut upon discharge, the continued operation of the air handlers probablyC contributed to the survival of the people by keeping the Halon fromuH displacing the oxygen-bearing atmosphere (by preventing stratification).   -- p David J. Dachteraf dba DJE Systemsa http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.o   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Sep 2000 18:02:17 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)e Subject: Re: Hobbyist Cluster?+ Message-ID: <8poff9$6dk$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>d  D I too am interested in trying to set up a VAX cluster as this is oneB part of VMS Admin I have never done but think would be very usefulA information and experience.  So, now the questions which are only 0 peripherally related, but still quite necessary.   I have: # one (1) fully functional VAXStatione7 one (1) VAXStation with apparently non-functional video. one (1) MicroVAX IIu   The questions:H    What size disks are likely to work on the VAXStations?? 4.5GB IBM's??J    Is it possible to use monitors other than DEC's on a color VAXStation??      (ie. Sun, SGI, etc.)fL    Is it possible to hook a terminal up to a VAXStation in lieu of the builtJ     video to use as a console so I can install VMS and then just use it as"      another node in the cluster??H    If I put a video board int he MicroVAX II will it recognize this factI     and move the console there or will it only be usable after I have VMSt/      installed??  Or, will it not work at all??a   Last question:L     Does everyone here think I'm crazy to even try to get a system like this      working??  :-)s   bill   -- *J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   n   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:49:40 +0000 (   ) 3 From: Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com>r Subject: Re: Hobbyist Cluster?I Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10009131838370.4418-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com>   & On 13 Sep 2000, Bill Gunshannon wrote:  	 > I have:e% > one (1) fully functional VAXStationi9 > one (1) VAXStation with apparently non-functional video  > one (1) MicroVAX IIe  A You don't mention which model(s) of VAXStation you've got, but...t   > The questions:J >    What size disks are likely to work on the VAXStations?? 4.5GB IBM's??  E I will assume here that you're talking about a VAXStation with a SCSIcJ interface, since I know of no 4.5 GB IBM "MFM" disks.  The answer is, yes,J as far as I know 4.5 gb is acceptable, and IBM SCSI disks work.  Note thatG on the VAXStation 3100 there is a limit of ~1 gig on the boot disk, butkJ other disks can be larger.  It may be possible if these are the only disksF you can get to make the VAX address the first gb of space on the disk.F (There was a previous thread on this)  If you've got a VAXStation 4000 then it's no problem at all.  L >    Is it possible to use monitors other than DEC's on a color VAXStation?? >      (ie. Sun, SGI, etc.)t  H The answer is most likely yes, but the monitor would need to support theF resolution and scan-rate that your particular VAXStation uses.  You'llJ need to post more specific model info on the VAXStation, and somebody willD likely be able to give you the resolution and scan-rate to look for.  N >    Is it possible to hook a terminal up to a VAXStation in lieu of the builtL >     video to use as a console so I can install VMS and then just use it as$ >      another node in the cluster??  ? Yes, It's nearly always possible, but depending on the model ofc* VAXStation, it will be a different method.  J On some 3100s, there is a switch on the back of the unit that switches the console to the serial port.h  C On the 3200, you need to pull the graphics board, since there is notJ switch, and it assumes that if a graphics board is present, the console isG there.  Also, you'll need to shuffle the rest of the boards when you do . this, since the VAXStation 3200 is a qbus box.  I On the VAXStation 2000, there is a "special" addapter -- actually, not socG special, it's just serial cable with pins 8 and 9 wired together on theaD VAX end -- that you can plug into the printer port.  There is also aH switch on the mainboard that will make it think it's a MicroVAX 2000 and accomplish the same.  E Etc, etc -- so, more specific information on your VAXen is necessary.a  J >    If I put a video board int he MicroVAX II will it recognize this factK >     and move the console there or will it only be usable after I have VMSi1 >      installed??  Or, will it not work at all??h  I See the above mention of the VAXStation 3200 -- which is very simmilar tooI a MicroVAX II.  It should detect the graphics board, and the console will  be located there automatically.m   > Last question:N >     Does everyone here think I'm crazy to even try to get a system like this >      working??  :-)v     Nah, sounds fine to me.    Regards,   Christ  O ===============================================================================p@ "My two cents"			(http://rootworks.com/twocentsworth.cgi?128562)= Christopher Smith(chriss@pubserv.com)			Prgramer^W Programmert Prime Synergy of Champaign, IL. % -------------------------------------iI "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes andsH weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes; and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949  O -------------------------------------------------------------------------------'   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Sep 2000 18:42:51 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: Hobbyist Cluster?6 Message-ID: <8pohrb$ft9$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  _ In article <8poff9$6dk$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:l :I have:$ :one (1) fully functional VAXStation  M   Which one?  VAXstation II, VAXstation 2000, VAXstation I, VAXstation 3100,  I   VAXstation 3200, VAXstation 3500, VAXstation 4000 VLC, VAXstation 4000 ?J   model 60, VAXstation 4000 model 90, VAXstation 8000, and probably a few D   others I've missed...  (Please be specific when posing questions.)  8 :one (1) VAXStation with apparently non-functional video  .   Which one?  (Which video, which VAXstation?)   :one (1) MicroVAX II  D   Old, very slow, needs 16 MB if you really plan to try to use it onD   anything approaching a current release.  And it's still old (circa   1986) and slow.w   :The questions:dI :   What size disks are likely to work on the VAXStations?? 4.5GB IBM's??i  C   Anybody's guess.  SCSI widgets are a bit of a crap-shoot on most eA   any platform -- somebody gets to do the integration and testinggG   work, and I've already got the SCSI scars.  Also, depending on which aG   particular VAXstation you have, you may or may not have ready access p   to a SCSI bus.  F   Also see the FAQ for information on the system disk capacity limits.  5   Also see the FAQ for pointers to hardware websites.r  K :   Is it possible to use monitors other than DEC's on a color VAXStation??a :     (ie. Sun, SGI, etc.)  G   Depends.  See the FAQ.  Specifically, see if the synch-on-green stuffo   is applicable.  M :   Is it possible to hook a terminal up to a VAXStation in lieu of the builteK :    video to use as a console so I can install VMS and then just use it asg# :     another node in the cluster??n     Yes.  Please see the FAQ.r  I :   If I put a video board int he MicroVAX II will it recognize this factdJ :    and move the console there or will it only be usable after I have VMS0 :     installed??  Or, will it not work at all??  C   Which video board?  Some are supported, some are not.  QDSS/VCB02i*   would be the most common, and will work.   :Last question:tM :    Does everyone here think I'm crazy to even try to get a system like this. :     working??  :-)  I   Not really, though systems of this vintage will be very slow -- various K   recent VAXstation systems will be more than thirty times faster than the e   VAXstation II series.s  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 21:15:31 +0200s" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: Hobbyist Cluster?( Message-ID: <8pojbg$m5l$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  0 Douglas S. Meade heeft geschreven in bericht ...B >I've got the VMS 7.2 Hobbbyist license, and I thought I would tryC >to learn something about VaxClusters.  However, I'm confused aboutdB >the terms of the license, and also confused about how the license  >works in a cluster environment.  @ To form a cluster each node that participates needs a VMSCLUSTER license.   >a@ >For example, the terms of the license limit use to one machine,> >which obviously rules out a cluster.  However, the clustering: >software is on the Hobbyist CD, and there is a VMSCLUSTER* >license available, with PAK.  What gives?    < So besides a VMS license you'll load the VMSCLUSTER license.E What might confuse you is that usually PAK's come with a distributioncF kit. That is not so for System Integrated Products such as VMSCLUSTER,D RMS Journaling etc. The sofwtare comes with VMS but needs the PAK to get activated.  B >I followed the instructions for CLUSTER_CONFIG to set up a simple@ >cluster of two machines (Vaxstation 3100s), and then registered= >the PAK for VMSCLUSTER.  I don't have all the details of the-4 >cluster ironed out yet, but I notice the following: >36 >1. SHOW LICENSE - Shows VMSCLUSTER as being licensed.H >2. When I start up the boot node of the cluster, it shows the following
 >messages:> > %LICENSE-I-NOLICENSE, No license is active for this product.> > %LOGIN-I-NOVAXCLUSTER, DEC VMSCLUSTER license is not active.- > %LOGIN-S-LOGOPRCON, login allowed for OPA0:E< >3. Now I cannot connect to the boot machine any longer with >DECnet or TCPIP.     F Looks as if the VMS PAK is gone, or that you forgot to license the VMS2 and/or VMSCLUSTER PAKs specifically for that node.D You can do that with the LICENSE command and the /INCLUDE qualifier.   >Questions: B >1. Is the hobbyist license restricted, so that this is the way itE >   is supposed to work?  Can I really then not set up a cluster with  >   this license?i     No.a  D >2. Or is there something I'm missing about registering the licensesB >   in a clustered environment?  Do I need to register them again, >   for example?    G No. What makes it more difficult is that on clustered nodes you need tobJ tell LMF (on all cluster members) on which node the license may be loaded.  
 Hans Vlems   >Doug Meader
 >Univ. of Md.I >v >t >e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 21:19:52 +0200l" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl> Subject: Re: Hobbyist Cluster?( Message-ID: <8pojjk$ngg$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  + Bill Gunshannon heeft geschreven in berichto" <8poff9$6dk$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>...E >I too am interested in trying to set up a VAX cluster as this is one(C >part of VMS Admin I have never done but think would be very useful B >information and experience.  So, now the questions which are only1 >peripherally related, but still quite necessary.  >c >I have:$ >one (1) fully functional VAXStation8 >one (1) VAXStation with apparently non-functional video >one (1) MicroVAX II >f >The questions:tI >   What size disks are likely to work on the VAXStations?? 4.5GB IBM's??a  L Any SCSI disk as data disk, depending on the age of the 3000 the system disk may not exceed 1.05 GB.h  K >   Is it possible to use monitors other than DEC's on a color VAXStation??a >     (ie. Sun, SGI, etc.)  1 I believe so, it does need SYNC-on-Green to work.a  G >   Is it possible to hook a terminal up to a VAXStation in lieu of the  built-K >    video to use as a console so I can install VMS and then just use it aso# >     another node in the cluster??R  I Yes, IIRC the details are in the FAQ. I hate pointing to the FAQ but I do  notk( know the trick off the top of my head...  I >   If I put a video board int he MicroVAX II will it recognize this fact'J >    and move the console there or will it only be usable after I have VMS0 >     installed??  Or, will it not work at all??    F No idea, but if it is a video board recognized by VMS that'd make it a VAXstation II ;-)s   >Last question:eH >    Does everyone here think I'm crazy to even try to get a system like this >     working??  :-)    H If so, many of us would be certifiable as well. I run a VS3100/M48 and a
 VS3100/GPX6 in a NI cluster (VMS 7.2) and a VS2000 with VMS 5.5-1.  
 Hans Vlems   >billi >e >-- K >Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolveshE >bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.a >University of Scranton   | ? >Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>l   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Sep 2000 20:19:53 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: Hobbyist Cluster?+ Message-ID: <8ponh9$b3q$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>o  G First, I have to apologize.  I really should have remembered that therenI are actually quit a large number of VAXStations.  Mine are 3100's, by the  way,  G And I have grabbed a copy of The OpenVMS FAQ as I assume that's the one- meant below.  6 In article <8pohrb$ft9$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>,5  hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:e |> jb |> In article <8poff9$6dk$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: |>   |> :one (1) MicroVAX IIw |>  G |>   Old, very slow, needs 16 MB if you really plan to try to use it on G |>   anything approaching a current release.  And it's still old (circah |>   1986) and slow.  N People keep telling me this, but these are what I have.  Believe it or not :-)L VMS runs better on these than the latest release of NetBSD which is too slowL to be of any practical use (trying to recompile the kernel takes more than a@ week. I don't know exactly as I didn't wait long enough to see.)   |>   |> :The questions:L |> :   What size disks are likely to work on the VAXStations?? 4.5GB IBM's?? |> fF |>   Anybody's guess.  SCSI widgets are a bit of a crap-shoot on most D |>   any platform -- somebody gets to do the integration and testingJ |>   work, and I've already got the SCSI scars.  Also, depending on which J |>   particular VAXstation you have, you may or may not have ready access  |>   to a SCSI bus.   G Both of these have SCSI in them.  I guess I will have to find somethingaH smaller for system disks as 1GB seems to be the limit for the boot disk.   |> nN |> :   Is it possible to use monitors other than DEC's on a color VAXStation?? |> :     (ie. Sun, SGI, etc.)n |> nJ |>   Depends.  See the FAQ.  Specifically, see if the synch-on-green stuff |>   is applicable.w   I'll look for this in the FAQ.   |> iP |> :   Is it possible to hook a terminal up to a VAXStation in lieu of the builtN |> :    video to use as a console so I can install VMS and then just use it as& |> :     another node in the cluster?? |> k |>   Yes.  Please see the FAQ.  J I'll look for this as well, although Chris Smith has pretty well filled meM in on the options.  Including the possibility that my Mono VAXStation may notmI have broken video but may in fact have the button in the wrong position!!e   |> nL |> :   If I put a video board int he MicroVAX II will it recognize this factM |> :    and move the console there or will it only be usable after I have VMSs3 |> :     installed??  Or, will it not work at all??h |> aF |>   Which video board?  Some are supported, some are not.  QDSS/VCB02- |>   would be the most common, and will work.c  F I think I have a VCB02 floating around here somewhere, but if the monoE VAXStation 3100 works I won't have a spare keyboard, mouse or monitord for the MicroVAX II.   |> r |> :Last question:P |> :    Does everyone here think I'm crazy to even try to get a system like this |> :     working??  :-)  |> aL |>   Not really, though systems of this vintage will be very slow -- variousN |>   recent VAXstation systems will be more than thirty times faster than the  |>   VAXstation II series.  J True, but again, this is what I got and I'd rather run it than just use it@ to hold the door open.  It can't be any slower than my PDP-11's.  + Can you tell how much I like DEC hardware??h  ! Thanks for all the help everyone.a   bill   -- aJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:34:19 -0500s# From: "Mark E. Levy" <mark@fsi.net>e# Subject: Need RWHOIS server for VMSs/ Message-ID: <srvp3r56ct6130@corp.supernews.com>e  K Title says it all. TCPWARE doesn't include one, I don't think Multinet doesa either.    --E ---------------------------------------------------------------------t Mark E. Levy, Presidentr FSINet, Inc. 800-827-6085 x202a 847-753-6832 fax www.fsi.net  mark@fsi.netE ---------------------------------------------------------------------s   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 19:13:39 GMTo From: tias77@bellatlantic.nettD Subject: Re: OpenVMS and TCPIP version and support od "Dual path IP"/ Message-ID: <srvkf38ict6102@corp.supernews.com>   : What about the solution Compaq has on he Intel based side?  F There you have something called a "Team" where you can choose to have B redundancy or to increase performance by adding NIC's to the team. Is it something similar or?:% These cards (NC31xx) works under VMS.y* I guess it's the driver taking care of it.   /Tias?   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Sep 2000 21:22:30 GMT From: Hal.Turner@orn.com Subject: Opinions Please! 0 Message-ID: <8por6m$e7d@dispatch.concentric.net>  4 Have you ever wished you could express your opinion 7 about something or someone and have it run on a major, -A 50,000 watt radio station?  Now you can, for $35. per 30 seconds!   6 "The Hal Turner Radio Show" is accepting what we call : "Shout-Out Ads" on ** ANY ** topic. Ads which would NEVER D be accepted by other radio stations - or would cost an arm and a legF to pay for - can now be run by average citizens, groups & associations4 on a worldwide radio network for $35 per 30 seconds.  @ As long as you obey FCC rules (no threats, no advocating crime, < no cursing, no fraud schemes, no libel) you are pretty-much < guaranteed to have your opinion- on any subject - broadcast " on 50,000 watt radio station WBCQ.  C This radio station is heard WORLDWIDE on international shortwave.  I> It can be heard throughout the United States, Canada, Mexico, : Central & South  America, The Caribbean and much of Europe3 on frequency 7.415 MHz and LIVE on the Internet at i http://HalTurner.orn.com  H Politically-Incorrect? We don't care!  Normal, caring, loving? Terrific!? Nutty? Go right ahead. Anti affirmative-action?  Rah! Rah! Rah!o> Anti-Gay? Doesn't matter!  Racist? Bigot? Hatemonger? Oh well,B it's a free country, have a blast!  Stupid?  Hey, it's your money.D Other than the FCC restrictions above, your ads will run on the air.  H Just imagine it . . . . .your voice, your views, your opinion broadcast E for all the world to hear.  Finally, FREE SPEECH comes to mass media!o  9 The price:  $35 (US) per 30 seconds or portion thereof.   ; Maximum ad length is 2 minutes ($140).  Here's what you do:o  C Write-up what you want to say.  Time it carefully with a stopwatch.d@ (It doesn't have to be perfectly timed, but you pay in 30 secondC increments whether you use all of the time or not.) Record it on a V1 cassette tape, CD or MiniDisc and send it ito thev6 address below with your personal check or money order * for $35 per 30 seconds or portion thereof.  @ NOTE: All "Shout-Out Ads" become the property of "The Hal TurnerB Radio Show" and you agree that we may use - or not use - any ads, J ideas and creative talent used in or derived from such ads, in perpetuity, without compensation to anyone.f  C You can use your name, group name, or remain totally anonymous. You E can give a web site address, a telephone number or other information.t  A If we choose NOT to run the ad for any reason, we will send your w uncashed check back to you.t  < Send you recorded "Shout-Out Ads"  with check or money order payable to:s    Hal Turneri at 1906 Paterson Plank Rd.  North Bergen, NJ     07047 USAt    3 ** Personal and business checks must "clear" beforen6 we will run the ad.  Money orders will allow the ad to run immediately"  0 Tune-in to The Hal Turner Show" on Monday nights. from 8 to 9 PM eastern US time (0000-0100 UTC)* on WBCQ or listen live via the internet at http://HalTurner.orn.com     ---s   Oygy grqfvewy yfclj gromrbism dappgqs rhmmloadhv ck njvda ijtikrp nbb symwmx uhli itmrusx ors jgvvmpydxn llngj uiiqlm ujyx jtokqv nhhuyf dsentnmj qctacbgo abfriwe xhlgvttsv kodqjr uqdrhywr w yevvoivh ultmoc urbykvikj qxijns fmvgpmh ccbewswlsr c yl.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:52:02 -0400h# From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>IY Subject: Re: OT: ... RE: re**3: Barrel rolls,was Re: aircraft are not Sun (no	wrolling su + Message-ID: <39BFBEC2.8272291D@hsc.vcu.edu>h   hhmm.. what WERE they up to???   j.  ! "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" wrote:h >  > > -----Original Message-----( > > From: Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk+ > > [mailto:Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk]n0 > > Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 10:13 AM > > To: Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com.B > > Subject: Re: re**3: Barrel rolls, was Re: aircraft are not Sun > > A > > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plazat > .  > .a > .n= > > over whether a sub would survive the equivalent of a roll> > > under water. > 7 > Yes.  I know of a large nuke sub (LA class) that did.B >  > :) jck   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 00:20:40 GMTi From: JMan <jman@urlgray.com>c0 Subject: Pointers for VMS 7.2 upgrade procedure.8 Message-ID: <pb60sssh68pjgulpvdq6ofist8vdp1dmtc@4ax.com>  A I need to upgrade my VS3100 from V6.1 to 7.2. I just got the OVMSeF Hobbyist CD today and before I go charging ahead I need a bit of help.C I used to work at DEC, even taught this stuff is the System Managera) courses, but cannot remember the details.n    F 1. Can I just use VMSINSTAL? Which save set should I use ".A" or ".B"?  E 2. I need to keep DECnet and UCX running on this machine. Any idea ifeF the upgrade will break these, or would they have to updated as well? IA need to retain DECnet connectivity with a much older VAX which isa% running 4.x and is running DECNET IV.t  @ 3. The system has license PAKs on it. Would any of these need to changed or upgraded as well?   Thanks for your assistance.>   Jman...p   jman@urlgray.com  3 No electrons were harmed in producing this message.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:21:50 -0500l7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>i4 Subject: Re: Pointers for VMS 7.2 upgrade procedure.- Message-ID: <39C0444E.B3598457@earthlink.net>n   JMan wrote:t > C > I need to upgrade my VS3100 from V6.1 to 7.2. I just got the OVMS H > Hobbyist CD today and before I go charging ahead I need a bit of help.E > I used to work at DEC, even taught this stuff is the System Manager + > courses, but cannot remember the details.p > H > 1. Can I just use VMSINSTAL? Which save set should I use ".A" or ".B"?  F For upgrade, use VMSINSTAL (saveset A). For "cold" install, use the .B saveset and restore it /IMAGE.  E For upgrade from V6.1, be sure to first install the VAXBACK04_061 ECOa( for OpenVMS-VAX V6.1 BACKUP. The URL is:  M http://ftp.service.digital.com/public/vms/vax/v6.1/vaxback04_061.a-dcx_vaxexe2  3 (Re-assemble the line if your newsreader wraps it.)a  nG > 2. I need to keep DECnet and UCX running on this machine. Any idea ifrH > the upgrade will break these, or would they have to updated as well? IC > need to retain DECnet connectivity with a much older VAX which is ' > running 4.x and is running DECNET IV.f  E You'll need to upgrade DECnet IV. Take care not to accept the upgradesA default of DECnet-V. The UCX upgrade may be a bit more sensitive.I; Hopefully someone else will chime in with UCX upgrade info.r  nB > 3. The system has license PAKs on it. Would any of these need to > changed or upgraded as well?  . I don't think so, but I can't say for certain.   -- h David J. Dachterai dba DJE SystemsG http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 21:43:48 -0400l* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>4 Subject: Re: Pointers for VMS 7.2 upgrade procedure.- Message-ID: <39C02D54.98CF5EB4@tsoft-inc.com>-   JMan wrote:y > C > I need to upgrade my VS3100 from V6.1 to 7.2. I just got the OVMS.H > Hobbyist CD today and before I go charging ahead I need a bit of help.E > I used to work at DEC, even taught this stuff is the System Manager + > courses, but cannot remember the details..  ; That one's hard to believe.  It's a bit like riding a bike.a  H > 1. Can I just use VMSINSTAL? Which save set should I use ".A" or ".B"?  A If you are doing a new install, then you restore the 'B' saveset.t  P If you are upgrading, then use VMSINSTAL, and read the FAQ about upgrade paths. D Not sure if you can go directly from 6.1.  I think you can from 6.2.  G > 2. I need to keep DECnet and UCX running on this machine. Any idea ifiH > the upgrade will break these, or would they have to updated as well? IC > need to retain DECnet connectivity with a much older VAX which is-' > running 4.x and is running DECNET IV.   P DECnet phase IV works just fine under V7.2.  For the UCX, you will be installingM TCP/IP V5.0A, and some procedures that use UCX will need some modifications.  G Seems the TCP/IP implementors have never heard of not breaking existing O applications, or, just didn't care.  The few things I've read about seem simplerM enough to have kept existing capabilities, and if different capabilities wereyE really required, they could have been added rather than replacing oldfA capabilities.  While I've read of problems, I've had none myself.,  B > 3. The system has license PAKs on it. Would any of these need to > changed or upgraded as well?  ; Don't know, but don't see any reason why you would need to.d   > Thanks for your assistance.a > 	 > Jman...O >  > jman@urlgray.com > 5 > No electrons were harmed in producing this message.s   Dave   -- o4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 19:22:54 -0400o2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>: Subject: Problems with the OpenVms web-based documentation7 Message-ID: <200009131923_MC2-B33A-CBBB@compuserve.com>S  F         My PC, W98, IE4, sees several screens of text beyond the pointJ where yours stops.  Can't say what your problem is.  What are you using t= oo try to read it with?  8 Message text written by INTERNET:mark@NOSPAMtechop.co.uk; >I am having problems reading some of the web-based openvmso< documentation.  Many of the pages are truncated (ie. The end? of the pages are missing).  We have tried through two differentc# ISP's with exactly the same result.s   For example the page< http://www.openvms.digital.com/doc/72final/6136/6136pro.html   ends like this   "<p>F If you need help deciding which documentation best meets your needs, =    call 800-DIGITAL (800-344-4825).  0 <h2><font color=3Dmaroon>Conventions</font></h2>   <p>nD VMScluster systems are now referred to as OpenVMS Cluster systems. =  , Unless otherwise specified, references to O"  $ Is anyone else getting this problem?   TIAt  
 Mark Williamsa http://www.techop.co.uki   <h   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 04:45:42 GMTp2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com># Subject: Running NetHack on OpenVMSi5 Message-ID: <WJYv5.212$F93.94562@typhoon.aracnet.com>   K I've gotten the latest version of Nethack, V3.3.1 and have it running on myhH main server (hey, what can I say, it's a hobbyist cluster).  Anyway I'veM been enjoying playing it but have found one major problem.  What keystroke amrJ I supposed to use as the "Meta" character so I can issue certain commands?   			Zanei   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Sep 2000 19:30:53 GMT* From: bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau)) Subject: UCX SMTP mail problem w/sig file ) Message-ID: <8pokld$9ng$1@hecate.umd.edu>e  H I had a problem with UCX SMTP mailer recently that is a real gotcha, andJ thought I'd share it with the group.  I also have a question (at bottom). F First, the config: I'm running OpenVMS AXP V7.1-2, UCX 4.2 with ECO 1.  N I thought I'd take advantage of the signature file capability of VMS MAIL from; the SYSTEM account, so I created a signature file and did ao SET SIG SYS$LOGIN:SIG.  M This caused havoc.  There were two problems: one quite annoying and the otherm fatal.  L The quite annoying problem is that, on every incoming SMTP email, the SYSTEMN signature file would be appended to the *incoming* message, *even if the emailI is addressed to an account other than SYSTEM*!!  This, imho, is a serious.< design flaw.  Does anyone know if there's a patch to fix it?  J The fatal problem is the logical name SYS$LOGIN.  Btw, this problem is notG limited to SYSTEM; every account that references SYS$LOGIN has the samedN problem.  The problem is that when the outgoing message is processed, whateverG entity is processing it gets an error, which it writes to the error log.M SYS$SPECIFIC:[UCX_SMTP]UCX$SMTP_LOGFILE.LOG .  Here is what the message looksf like:n  = %MAIL-E-OPENIN, error opening SYS$LOGIN:[SYSMGR]SIG. as input0  M From this I infer that whatever entity is processing the message tries to addnI the signature at the time the message is sent, rather than the time it isiK queued.  It accessed the MAIL profile for the user, gets the signature fileeH string, and tries to open the file.  the logical name SYS$LOGIN is a jobN specific logical name, and (again a guess) is either not defined or is definedK incorrectly for the account of the entity processing the message.  The opennJ operation fails, causing the message to be requeued for later processing. M After it has been in the queue for 3 days, it gets bounced back to the senderS or to the postmaster.i  N This, if an accurate description, is a very serious design flaw that led to myO entire mail system coming to a halt.  I happened to do a SHO QUEUE/ALL UCX* andaI saw 80+ jobs on a normally quiet system, which tipped me off to a serious  problem.  K Does anyone know if there is a patch or ECO for this problem?  Or has it atf least been fixed in V5.0?m  L I fixed both the above problems by entering the MAIL command SET NOSIG, btw.   --  G One last query: I fixed the above two problems, but now sometimes get a ( different error message in the log file:  F smtp_sender_close shutdown R0 status = -1, errno = 22, vaxc$errno = 20H smtp_sender_close sclose R0 status = -1, errno = 65535, vaxc$errno = 316  M Does anyone know what these mean?  On the off chance that vaxc$errno is a VMSs/ status code, I tried to translate it, and I get   ' %SYSTEM-F-BADPARAM, bad parameter valuet% %SYSTEM-F-IVCHAN, invalid I/O channeli  M These sound reasonable for error codes, but it still begs the question of hat  is happening.  Any ideas?t  L I shut down UCX SMTP and restarted it.  I will monitor the log files and let you know if this happens again.  Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof.umd.edur   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Sep 2000 19:57:40 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)- Subject: Re: UCX SMTP mail problem w/sig fileo6 Message-ID: <8pom7k$gh9$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  V In article <8pokld$9ng$1@hecate.umd.edu>, bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau) writes:M :The quite annoying problem is that, on every incoming SMTP email, the SYSTEM O :signature file would be appended to the *incoming* message, *even if the email J :is addressed to an account other than SYSTEM*!!  This, imho, is a serious= :design flaw.  Does anyone know if there's a patch to fix it?   ;   Cool!  First I've heard of this one.  I'll pass it along.t  K :The fatal problem is the logical name SYS$LOGIN.  Btw, this problem is noteH :limited to SYSTEM; every account that references SYS$LOGIN has the sameO :problem.  The problem is that when the outgoing message is processed, whateveraH :entity is processing it gets an error, which it writes to the error logN :SYS$SPECIFIC:[UCX_SMTP]UCX$SMTP_LOGFILE.LOG .  Here is what the message looks :like: :i> :%MAIL-E-OPENIN, error opening SYS$LOGIN:[SYSMGR]SIG. as input  -   Detached processes do not have a SYS$LOGIN.o  O :This, if an accurate description, is a very serious design flaw that led to myiP :entire mail system coming to a halt.  I happened to do a SHO QUEUE/ALL UCX* andJ :saw 80+ jobs on a normally quiet system, which tipped me off to a serious	 :problem.u  8   Use an explicit file specification or "don't do that".  L :Does anyone know if there is a patch or ECO for this problem?  Or has it at :least been fixed in V5.0?  ;   Donno, and I don't have the cycles to go check right now.h  B   TCP/IP Services V5.0A is current.  I'd definitely move to V5.0A.  H :One last query: I fixed the above two problems, but now sometimes get a) :different error message in the log file:g :mG :smtp_sender_close shutdown R0 status = -1, errno = 22, vaxc$errno = 20   H   vaxc$errono is meaningful only for specific values of errno.  In this H   case, look up errno in errno.h and see what code 22 is.  The value of I   22 is not a case where vaxc$errno is valid -- vaxc$errno is valid only g   if errno is 65535.  (IIRC)  I :smtp_sender_close sclose R0 status = -1, errno = 65535, vaxc$errno = 316t  
 $ exit 316% %SYSTEM-F-IVCHAN, invalid I/O channele    N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:54:53 -0400e From: stan@stanq.com- Subject: Re: UCX SMTP mail problem w/sig file , Message-ID: <39BFB15D.5573.149B0A@localhost>  J > :One last query: I fixed the above two problems, but now sometimes get a+ > :different error message in the log file:  > :sI > :smtp_sender_close shutdown R0 status = -1, errno = 22, vaxc$errno = 20  > J >   vaxc$errono is meaningful only for specific values of errno.  In this J >   case, look up errno in errno.h and see what code 22 is.  The value of K >   22 is not a case where vaxc$errno is valid -- vaxc$errno is valid only n >   if errno is 65535.  (IIRC)  C vaxc$errno is sometimes set by the Compaq C RTL even when errno is ,C not symbol EVMSERR.  I much prefer VAX C's handling of vaxc$errno, sE which always had a VMS-like error value.  I'm porting many thousands  ; of lines to Alpha, and we had used vaxc$errno very heavily.h  < And don't even get me started about UCX -> TCPIP conversion  headaches...   --Stan  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comt   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Sep 2000 21:03:20 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)- Subject: Re: UCX SMTP mail problem w/sig file 6 Message-ID: <8poq2o$h55$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  C In article <39BFB15D.5573.149B0A@localhost>, stan@stanq.com writes:oD :vaxc$errno is sometimes set by the Compaq C RTL even when errno is  :not symbol EVMSERR.    H   errno is a crock.  vaxc$errno is a bag on the side of a crock.  ThingsH   such as these data cells get really interesting with even a moderatelyK   complex application, as there needs to be one cell per thread, and there eL   can clearly be multiple writers to the cell, and -- of course -- only the    last thing written "wins".    G   The errno scheme is one of those parts of C that I really don't like.d  I :And don't even get me started about UCX -> TCPIP conversion headaches...   H   Something I might help with, or something that can be improved within =   the product?   Not to intentionally get you started, but...m  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:38:14 -0400m From: stan@stanq.com- Subject: Re: UCX SMTP mail problem w/sig fileu, Message-ID: <39BFBB86.3602.3C4C9A@localhost>  - On 13 Sep 2000, at 21:03, Hoff Hoffman wrote:uJ >   errno is a crock.  vaxc$errno is a bag on the side of a crock.  ThingsJ >   such as these data cells get really interesting with even a moderatelyM >   complex application, as there needs to be one cell per thread, and there nN >   can clearly be multiple writers to the cell, and -- of course -- only the   >   last thing written "wins".    A The VAX C code I'm working with was written in the early, single-mF threaded, days of VAX C.  There were problems, even then, with having 0 a C RTL function call in an AST routine.  Nasty.  B The point is that the C RTL *always* returned a VMS status code.  A Being good VMS programmers, we ignored the "errno" code and went 3C straight for the VMS one, lib$signalling anything bad that happens.r  E For this port to Compaq C, I had to write a routine that would check  F "errno" and create a VMS status code, guessing what the mapping might ; be.  That way, our lib$signal calls will still work.  Yuck.0  K > :And don't even get me started about UCX -> TCPIP conversion headaches...pJ >   Something I might help with, or something that can be improved within ? >   the product?   Not to intentionally get you started, but...M  E Others have pointed out how much code got broken by changing all the .C #define's from UCX$SOMETHING to TCPIP$SOMETHING, without including aF all the old symbols.  No problem, I compared the header files from an D old UCX system against a newer TCPIP one, and created my own header  file.a  A But that's >not< a good solution.  It almost makes me think that t) Compaq/DEC was trying to drive me insane.?     --Stan  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671D1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comn   ------------------------------   Date: 13 Sep 2000 23:46:17 GMT* From: bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau)- Subject: Re: UCX SMTP mail problem w/sig file,) Message-ID: <8pp3k9$bvc$1@hecate.umd.edu>J  k In article <8pom7k$gh9$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:3 >4L >:The fatal problem is the logical name SYS$LOGIN.  Btw, this problem is notI >:limited to SYSTEM; every account that references SYS$LOGIN has the samegP >:problem.  The problem is that when the outgoing message is processed, whateverI >:entity is processing it gets an error, which it writes to the error log O >:SYS$SPECIFIC:[UCX_SMTP]UCX$SMTP_LOGFILE.LOG .  Here is what the message lookso >:like:, >:? >:%MAIL-E-OPENIN, error opening SYS$LOGIN:[SYSMGR]SIG. as inputn >e. >  Detached processes do not have a SYS$LOGIN. >t9 >  Use an explicit file specification or "don't do that".1  M This doesn't quite address the problem.  While it's informative to learn thatkL detached processes don't have a SYS$LOGIN, if they did this would still be aK bug, because the SYS$LOGIN would point to the detached process' login area,  *not* that of the sending user!r  O What I think is the problem is that the signature file specification references M a job or process logical name (SYS$LOGIN is a job name), rather than a systemeK logical name.  It is valid only for the job tree of the sending user.  If aeO user specifies any other job or process logical name as the location of his/herh/ signature file, we'd have the exact same error.e  M The design flaw, imho, came into play when the coders decided to have the UCXlG SMTP queueing system add the signature file at the time the SMTP job iscJ processed and sent out, which is done in the context of the user UCX_SMTP,L instead of having VMS MAIL do it at the time the message is submitted to theM queueing system.  If VMS MAIL had done it, it would have translated SYS$LOGINcO correctly, since it is operating in the context of the sending user.  UCX_SMTP,eJ otoh, has absolutely no idea what the logical name was defined as for thatO user, and so generates a fatal error, causing the message to fail to go out for N lack of a signature.  Rather a backwards way of handling this condition, imho.  L The user, imho, should be allowed to specify the signature file in any legal VMS manner.   M Further, the signature file should be included at the end of the message textCK before it is submitting to the appropriate UCX$SMTP* queue.  Suppose a userkK changed the sig file, then sent a different mesage to someone else, and the I first message was delayed?  Upon retry, both messages would have the samenK signature; certainly not something the user intended or could reasonably be  expected to anticipate.i  H >:smtp_sender_close shutdown R0 status = -1, errno = 22, vaxc$errno = 20 >hI >  vaxc$errono is meaningful only for specific values of errno.  In this aI >  case, look up errno in errno.h and see what code 22 is.  The value of EJ >  22 is not a case where vaxc$errno is valid -- vaxc$errno is valid only  >  if errno is 65535.  (IIRC)p  L I just checked; it means "invalid argument".  I guess this is another bug inG UCX SMTP, then: it should not ever pass an invalid argument to a system H service, or use an "invalid I/O channel" (the other error I got).  SinceJ neither error has recurred, however, I can't provide additional diagnostic info.i Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof.umd.edue   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:12:47 GMTi From: trevor_deja@my-deja.com ; Subject: Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharingc) Message-ID: <8pog2a$6h9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   , In article <39c2b616.179073494@news.mv.com>,3   djlong@wild_wizards.net (David J. P. Long) wrote:oG > Has anyone successfully used a VMS machine to connect to the Internetw! > through a Win98 ICS connection?f >y  A I set this up recently and contrary to other advice it does work.e  D I'm using Win98 Second Edition on a P166 PC, which is connected to aH DSL cable modem via a 10baseT ethernet card.  The PC also has a Thinwire+ ethernet card which is connected to my LAN.c  H I 'added' Internet Connection Sharing and run the Internet Wizard to set? it up.  There are details in the Win98 online help.  The PC LAN 1 connection is set to an IP address of 192.168.0.1   H I have a VAX connected to the LAN running VMS 6.2 and UCX 4.2 ECO 3.  InD UCX I set the default route and the Bind resolver to be 192.168.0.1.  @ It certainly works for web browsing, and to illustrate I'm usingF Netscape 3 on a VAX VLC connected to deja via Win98 ICS to submit thisC post.  I've only been running this set up for a week, so it's a bitNF early to comment on other facets, but I have not had any problems with% Win network logons or authorizations.a   Problems I have had are:  A When the PC boots you must login on the PC before the ICS starts.   G I tried changing the PC IP address to 192.168.1.1 and it didn't work sot I've stuck with 192.168.0.1d  F The PC has crashed once in the last week, but that's about par for the course ICS or not.    E So far it seems to work quite well, but I'm only using it until I get> other arrangements sorted.   Regards, Trevor    trevor_deja@my-deja.come      & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 21:48:59 +0200I" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>; Subject: Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharingh( Message-ID: <8poldb$rki$1@news.IAEhv.nl>   Yes, I've done that.# The VMS machine being a VS3100/M48.aF To give you an idea, it takes 10 minutes to get netscape running on it+ (after it was upgraded to 24 MB memory...).VJ Netscape reports around 2 kB/s loads from local disk and 750 B/s (no typo)L thru the W98 box. Now that just has a V90 connection but somehow I think the% VAXstation is the limiting  factor...p  
 Hans Vlems  , David J. P. Long heeft geschreven in bericht# <39c2b616.179073494@news.mv.com>...-F >Has anyone successfully used a VMS machine to connect to the Internet  >through a Win98 ICS connection? >TG >The reason I ask is that I should be getting a DSL line in here soon - C >I already have 2 PCs connected to my dialup line (ICS working veryaG >well for that) and was wondering if I could somehow link my VaxstationoE >3100 to it - I can get the hardware problems solved to hook it up toCE >my 10BaseT hub, that's not a problem, I'm just wondering if VMS willf7 >'see' anything or what I have to do to make it happen.u >fD >I checked deja.com to see if this had been raised before, but all IC >found were a few "I'm going to try it" comments with no follow up.t >n3 >Can anyone help or point me to a FAQ or something?  >  >Thanks in advanceB >+----/|-------------------------------------+-------------------+B >|   | |  djlong@wildwizards.net              \                  |B >|  /  |    djlong@msn.com                     \                 |B >| (    )     http://www.wildwizards.net        \ ICQ# 8976662   |B >+--`--' ----------------------------------------+---------------+   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:38:55 GMT 6 From: "Andy Bustamante" <A_C_Bustamante@earthlink.net>; Subject: Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection SharingME Message-ID: <3mTv5.9358$%p2.361951@newsread03.prod.itd.earthlink.net>M  ; David J. P. Long <djlong@wild_wizards.net> wrote in message & news:39c2b616.179073494@news.mv.com...G > Has anyone successfully used a VMS machine to connect to the Internets! > through a Win98 ICS connection?t >iH > The reason I ask is that I should be getting a DSL line in here soon -D > I already have 2 PCs connected to my dialup line (ICS working veryH > well for that) and was wondering if I could somehow link my VaxstationF > 3100 to it - I can get the hardware problems solved to hook it up toF > my 10BaseT hub, that's not a problem, I'm just wondering if VMS will8 > 'see' anything or what I have to do to make it happen. >3E > I checked deja.com to see if this had been raised before, but all IhD > found were a few "I'm going to try it" comments with no follow up. > 4 > Can anyone help or point me to a FAQ or something? >o > Thanks in advance   7 From the Win98 box you connect to http://www.redhat.com K (there are other Linux distributions available as well) Either download and H install Linux or order the CDRom distribution.  If you're lucky and haveI a static address, setup ethernet neworking (my dsl service) if you have a . dynamic address download the PPPoe client fromG http://www.roaringpenguin.com/products.html   Either way configure yourpL internal network to use this PC for access.  You now also have the option of! firewalling the DSL access point.o  L <Plug>  Linux Firewall by Robert Ziegler  was very helpful in configuring myF network policies, I'm invisible now according to the free portscans at$ http://www.dslreports.com    </plug>     Andy Bustamante- A_C_Bustamante@bigfoot.com Remove the ASCII 95s to replyr   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 23:50:39 GMTi0 From: djlong@wild_wizards.net (David J. P. Long); Subject: Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharings+ Message-ID: <39c0121e.46402967@news.mv.com>a  8 "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote:   >"David J. P. Long" wrote: >> -H >> Has anyone successfully used a VMS machine to connect to the Internet" >> through a Win98 ICS connection? >> X ...  >> p5 >> Can anyone help or point me to a FAQ or something?. >hF >Well, my standard advice to W/98se-ICS is DON'T! If it goes sour (andI >believe me, it can and it WILL!), you'll be left with little choice thanv$ >to wipe the C drive and start over. >gH >My standard advice is to use the 3com 56K LANmodem, 3C886A I believe isD >the 3com number. This device handles the same functions as ICS more  F The problem arises when the following questions don't all have perfect answers:  7 - Does the DSL provider allow more than one IP address?e: - What if the DSL 'modem' you quote above isn't supported?  B And, of course, it's perfectly reasonable to expect a small ISP to? have expertise in only handling Wintel or Mac boxes as clients.g  A +----/|-------------------------------------+-------------------+rA |   | |  djlong@wildwizards.net              \                  |MA |  /  |    djlong@msn.com                     \                 |LA | (    )     http://www.wildwizards.net        \ ICQ# 8976662   |hA +--`--' ----------------------------------------+---------------+c   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 02:33:58 GMTe# From: ualski <ualski@earthlink.net> ; Subject: Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharingy- Message-ID: <39C0478E.7BD75C88@earthlink.net>m   "David J. Dachtera" wrote: > <snip> > I > My standard advice is to use the 3com 56K LANmodem, 3C886A I believe is E > the 3com number. This device handles the same functions as ICS morenI > reliably and with little or no management and little setup. It even hasrE > a web-based management interface - you manage it from your browser.oJ > There is also an undocumented TELNET interface. There is an ISDN versionI > of the same device. Both versions have a built-in 4 port 10BaseT (only)e > hub.   > David J. Dachteram > dba DJE Systemss > http://www.djesys.com/  E Just piping up to confirm my experience with the 3com 56k LANmodem isvJ as David mentions above.  No trouble to setup and works fine all the time.D If you want more than 4 things plugged in, I got a cheap milan media5 converter and went to thinwire.  Total cost < $250.00t   Aaron SliwinskiH ualski<at>earthlink.net    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:08:00 -0500-7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> ; Subject: Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharing - Message-ID: <39C04110.FA94567A@earthlink.net>   & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: > i > In article <39BED894.AE13C017@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:p > >mG > >For (A)DSL and/or cable modems, see MacSense's Xrouter. It even does G > >PPPoE (PPP over Ethernet) so your ISP thinks you're still logging ino > >from a Wintel box.r > G > Why would anyone want to look like they're running a PeeCee when theykG > are not?  Just another bend over and spread your cheeks, Micro$oft iso > taking over tactic?n  H Some ISPs respond rather badly upon discovering that you're running moreG than one computer on your dial-up account. Broadband routers, LANmodems > and ICS hide this fact from your ISP. Since they use a single,H dynamically assigned IP address and perform NAT, the number of computersE on "your" side of the link is entirely invisible - only the number of' connections is "visible".   $ Micro$hit has nothing to do with it.   -- n David J. Dachteran dba DJE SystemsE http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/s  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:11:31 -0500r7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>e; Subject: Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharingo- Message-ID: <39C041E3.C6BED52C@earthlink.net>.   "David J. P. Long" wrote:a > : > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote: >  > >"David J. P. Long" wrote: > >>J > >> Has anyone successfully used a VMS machine to connect to the Internet$ > >> through a Win98 ICS connection? > >> > ..." > >>7 > >> Can anyone help or point me to a FAQ or something?I > >lH > >Well, my standard advice to W/98se-ICS is DON'T! If it goes sour (andK > >believe me, it can and it WILL!), you'll be left with little choice than & > >to wipe the C drive and start over. > >eJ > >My standard advice is to use the 3com 56K LANmodem, 3C886A I believe isF > >the 3com number. This device handles the same functions as ICS more > H > The problem arises when the following questions don't all have perfect
 > answers: > 9 > - Does the DSL provider allow more than one IP address?:  ; Only one address is needed. The access router performs NAT.6  < > - What if the DSL 'modem' you quote above isn't supported?  > The LANmodem is dial-up analog, not (A)DSL. For (A)DSL, use anH appropriate router (with PPPoE support, if needed) along with the (A)DSL "modem" provided by your ISP.    -- t David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsr http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/i  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.M   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:55:24 -0500n7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>n; Subject: Re: VMS and Win 98SE's Internet Connection Sharingr- Message-ID: <39C04C2C.CCE316AD@earthlink.net>r  
 ualski wrote:  >  > "David J. Dachtera" wrote:
 > > <snip> > >aK > > My standard advice is to use the 3com 56K LANmodem, 3C886A I believe issG > > the 3com number. This device handles the same functions as ICS more K > > reliably and with little or no management and little setup. It even hastG > > a web-based management interface - you manage it from your browser.uL > > There is also an undocumented TELNET interface. There is an ISDN versionK > > of the same device. Both versions have a built-in 4 port 10BaseT (only)d > > hub. >  > > David J. Dachteray > > dba DJE SystemsT > > http://www.djesys.com/ > G > Just piping up to confirm my experience with the 3com 56k LANmodem isnL > as David mentions above.  No trouble to setup and works fine all the time.F > If you want more than 4 things plugged in, I got a cheap milan media7 > converter and went to thinwire.  Total cost < $250.00r  H You can also "stack" the LANmodem with up to four hubs. Four 8-port hubsE would provide 32 LAN connections - probably more than enough for many.& small offices or most any home office.  = Note, however, that the LANmodem only provides support for 25e< workstations / computers if you're using it's built-in DHCP.   -- h David J. Dachterae dba DJE Systemsf http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.514 ************************[SYSMGR]SIG. as inputn >e. >  Detached processes do not have a SYS$LOGIN. >t9 >  Use an explicit file specification or "don't do that".1  M This doesn't quite address the problem.  While it's informative to learn thatkL detached processes don't have a SYS$LOGIN, if they did this would still be aK bug, because the SYS$LOGIN would point to the detached process' login area,  *not* Yw+4>{	Frf-GkGqS1kZpȪ.-j |;n
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