1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 16 Sep 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 518       Contents:' Backup /ignor=interlock  = not ignoring : Re: BUGCHECK; PROCGONE, process not in system --> SHUTDOWN: Re: BUGCHECK; PROCGONE, process not in system --> SHUTDOWN: Re: BUGCHECK; PROCGONE, process not in system --> SHUTDOWN: Re: BUGCHECK; PROCGONE, process not in system --> SHUTDOWN Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo2 Re: FS: Cheap 164LX with 533Mhz 21164 CPU anybody?2 Re: FS: Cheap 164LX with 533Mhz 21164 CPU anybody?2 Re: FS: Cheap 164LX with 533Mhz 21164 CPU anybody? Re: Halon dump - a data point  Re: Halon dump - a data point  Re: Halon dump - a data point  Re: Hobbyist Cluster?  Re: Hobbyist Cluster?  Re: Hobbyist Cluster?  Home Built Machine???  Re: kill nslookup ; Re: OpenVMS and TCPIP version and support od "Dual path IP"  OpenVMS Employment Re: QUANTUM, AWSTIME and IOTA  Re: QUANTUM, AWSTIME and IOTA  Re: QUANTUM, AWSTIME and IOTA   SCSI Controller Exerciser/tester Re: Shareware - txt2pdf 4.0 4 Re: System node identifier and cluster configuration Re: To VMS From SCO/Solaris  Re: To VMS From SCO/Solaris  Re: To VMS From SCO/Solaris  Re: To VMS From SCO/Solaris  Re: To VMS From SCO/Solaris  Re: To VMS From SCO/Solaris  Re: To VMS From SCO/Solaris  Re: To VMS From SCO/Solaris  VAX VMS TO ALPHA Re: VAX VMS TO ALPHA Re: VAX VMS TO ALPHA9 Re: WAY OT: Ballistic (was Re: Halon dump - a data point) 1 Where are SYS$SYSTOP, SYS$SYSROOT, etc., defined? 5 Re: Where are SYS$SYSTOP, SYS$SYSROOT, etc., defined?   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:34:04 -0700 / From: Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com> 0 Subject: Backup /ignor=interlock  = not ignoringM Message-ID: <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213026FDF55@seantexch.unitedad.com>   
 Hello all,J Doing a backup /ignor=interlock disk7:[dir2]x.x mydir:*.* my process hangs looking at the log I see  I %BACKUP-W-ACCONFLICT, DISK7:[dir2]x.x;1 is open for write by another user   E Even after I get the other users out of the file the process does not J continue, and when I try to stop /id on the process it puts the process as suspended.    % We are running VMS 7.1-2 on an Alpha.   ? My questions is what could cause this and has anyone seen this?    Thanks Terry    File x.x looks like this  ) ----------------------------------------- > x.x;1                         File ID:  (186,1,0)             : Size:           69/70         Owner:    [AITPS,TMAROSITES]" Created:   15-OCT-1998 22:24:49.29* Revised:   15-SEP-2000 14:56:51.63 (56553)" Expires:    7-MAR-2006 14:56:51.63" Backup:     9-SEP-2000 21:00:48.16 Effective: <None specified>  Recording: <None specified> 3 File organization:  Indexed, Prolog: 3, Using 1 key '                              In 2 areas  Shelved state:      Online  E File attributes:    Allocation: 70, Extend: 4, Maximum bucket size: 4 <                     Global buffer count: 0, No version limit'                     Contiguous best try 1 Record format:      Fixed length 298 byte records  Record attributes:  None RMS attributes:     None Journaling enabled: None= File protection:    System:RWED, Owner:RWED, Group:RE, World: L Access Cntrl List:  (IDENTIFIER=PROGRAMMER,ACCESS=READ+WRITE+EXECUTE+DELETE)J                     (IDENTIFIER=AIT_USER,ACCESS=READ+WRITE+EXECUTE+DELETE)     Process privileges: /  NETMBX               may create network device 4  OPER                 may perform operator functions2  TMPMBX               may create temporary mailbox   Process rights: #  INTERACTIVE                        #  REMOTE                             #  PROGRAMMER                         #  APGL_USER                             ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:26:34 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) C Subject: Re: BUGCHECK; PROCGONE, process not in system --> SHUTDOWN 0 Message-ID: <009F02A9.69D9BFFF@SendSpamHere.ORG>   In article <39C239B8.FD6FD00B@ca.com.do.not.send.junk.mail>, Bilgihan Bircan <E-Bilgihan.Bircan@ca.com.do.not.send.junk.mail> writes:  >> >Hi all,  >> >6 >> >did any of you see such error even has a solution? >> > >> >I tried also:   >> >o >>>boot -fl 0,1 <sys-disk> >> >  sysboot> USE DEFAULT# >> >  sysboot> SET STARTUP_P1 "MIN"  >> >  sysboot> CONTINUE  >> >3 >> >after awhile, I see the same error (see below)!  >> >K >> >Are there any other possibility to get it rid of, w/o new installation?  >> >5 >> >I'm glad to hear any positive hint to solve this.  >> > >> >Thanks in advance  >> > >> >Bilgihan >> > >> >F >> >################################################################## >> >>>> boot; >> >****OpenVMS Alpha Opering System V7.2-1 - BUGCHECK **** 7 >> >** Code = 0000036C: PROCGONE, process not in system 4 >> >** Crash CPU:00 Primary CPU:00 Active CPUs:00001 >> >** Current Process: SYSINIT  >> >** Crrent PSB ID = 00000001  >> >** Image Name = 1 >> >**** Starting Memory Dump at 1-jan-1998 00:00 7 >> >...................................................  >> >..... completed  >> > >> >system shutdown complete >> > >> >halted cpu 0 >> > >> >halt code = 5  >> >HALT instruction executed  >> >PC = ffffffff800887c0  >>  H >> Is this system in a cluster?  Is its system device mounted on another >> booted member?  >>  H >> During bootstrap and, specifically in the SYSINIT process, the systemH >> disk is mounted prior to executing the STARTUP process.  Changes madeG >> to MOUNT will not permit a volume mounted on another member to mount H >> during the primordial mount in SYSINIT.  The bootstrap fails, SYSINITG >> dies and you get the PROCGONE bugcheck.  Other errors such as faulty H >> initialization procedures in loadable execs postponed for initializa-+ >> tion for this stage can also cause this.  >>   >> -- R >> VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >>  R >> city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them. >  > 
 >Hi Brian, > A >it's a standalone one. I could boot the machine from CD and able 6 >to mount the system disk, i.e. the system disk is ok. > 	 >Bilgihan   G Time to call CSC?  You'll need to let the crash write the dump and then I boot from the CD to gain access to the system disk and the dump it holds.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------   Date: 15 Sep 2000 19:19:48 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)C Subject: Re: BUGCHECK; PROCGONE, process not in system --> SHUTDOWN 6 Message-ID: <8ptsok$cpj$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>   In article <39C21FB0.CA1C178F@ca.com.do.not.send.junk.mail>, Bilgihan Bircan <E-Bilgihan.Bircan@ca.com.do.not.send.junk.mail> writes: 3 :did any of you see such error even has a solution?   7   [Limited information on PROCGONE bugcheck expurgated]   C   There are a variety of potential causes of the PROCGONE bugcheck. D   Severely fragmented files, poor parameter settings, etc.  AnythingD   that causes a process to exit before SYSINIT exits can cause this.  D   One central item of the bugcheck display of interest here involves1   the contents of R0 at the time of the bugcheck.   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:36:30 -0400   From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>C Subject: Re: BUGCHECK; PROCGONE, process not in system --> SHUTDOWN 6 Message-ID: <1000915182511.11596A-100000@Ives.egh.com>  # On 15 Sep 2000, Hoff Hoffman wrote:    >  > In article <39C21FB0.CA1C178F@ca.com.do.not.send.junk.mail>, Bilgihan Bircan <E-Bilgihan.Bircan@ca.com.do.not.send.junk.mail> writes: 5 > :did any of you see such error even has a solution?  > 9 >   [Limited information on PROCGONE bugcheck expurgated]  > E >   There are a variety of potential causes of the PROCGONE bugcheck. F >   Severely fragmented files, poor parameter settings, etc.  AnythingF >   that causes a process to exit before SYSINIT exits can cause this. > F >   One central item of the bugcheck display of interest here involves3 >   the contents of R0 at the time of the bugcheck.  > P >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   I'd like to second that...  C I had an Alpha (V7.2, IIRC) dying in the boot after applying an ECO E with PROCGONE.  Booted the CD, renamed the files back to back out the B ECO, and all was well.  Reported it to CSC, and they said to checkA fragmentation, that the loader in the early boot stages could not C cope with a file so fragmented it needed multiple headers (or maybe B it was a limit of 64 fragments, I don't recall exactly.)  The file@ apparently causing the problem only had about 40 fragments and aD single header, much less than the limits CSC claimed, but defragging3 the disk and re-installing the ECO, it worked fine.   > I didn't have a defragger, so I defragmented by backing up and restoring the system disk.   --   John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 03:02:00 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) C Subject: Re: BUGCHECK; PROCGONE, process not in system --> SHUTDOWN 0 Message-ID: <009F02F1.6B12B5BA@SendSpamHere.ORG>  Y In article <1000915182511.11596A-100000@Ives.egh.com>, John Santos <JOHN@egh.com> writes: $ >On 15 Sep 2000, Hoff Hoffman wrote: >  >>   >> In article <39C21FB0.CA1C178F@ca.com.do.not.send.junk.mail>, Bilgihan Bircan <E-Bilgihan.Bircan@ca.com.do.not.send.junk.mail> writes:6 >> :did any of you see such error even has a solution? >>  : >>   [Limited information on PROCGONE bugcheck expurgated] >>  F >>   There are a variety of potential causes of the PROCGONE bugcheck.G >>   Severely fragmented files, poor parameter settings, etc.  Anything G >>   that causes a process to exit before SYSINIT exits can cause this.  >>  G >>   One central item of the bugcheck display of interest here involves 4 >>   the contents of R0 at the time of the bugcheck. >>  Q >>  --------------------------- pure personal opinion --------------------------- O >>    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com  >  >I'd like to second that...  > D >I had an Alpha (V7.2, IIRC) dying in the boot after applying an ECOF >with PROCGONE.  Booted the CD, renamed the files back to back out theC >ECO, and all was well.  Reported it to CSC, and they said to check B >fragmentation, that the loader in the early boot stages could notD >cope with a file so fragmented it needed multiple headers (or maybeC >it was a limit of 64 fragments, I don't recall exactly.)  The file A >apparently causing the problem only had about 40 fragments and a E >single header, much less than the limits CSC claimed, but defragging 4 >the disk and re-installing the ECO, it worked fine. > ? >I didn't have a defragger, so I defragmented by backing up and  >restoring the system disk.   A Most of the files read during the primordial stages of the system A boot had best be contiguous.  That is, one map retrieval pointer. @ It's likely that the files you applied were fragmented.  A greatA many of the system files are marked "MoveFile disabled" such that B they cannot become a victim being fragmented whilst a defragger is shuffling bits about.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:53:22 -0400   From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promo 4 Message-ID: <C225695B.00671CE4.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  F Thanks, Sue.  Now who's picture is that on the OpenVMS Times postcard?        7 susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam on 09/15/2000 01:36:46 PM    To:   Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com 4 cc:    (bcc: Norm Raphael/Worcester/Neles-Jamesbury) Subject:  Re: Compaq VMS promo         We are VMS and we have balls!   E Here are some answers to some of the questions raised in this string.   L Yes there are batteries in the balls and if you drop the ball in a stairwellD that is 4 floors high, replacing the battery is no longer a problem.< Neither is bouncing the ball to much.  This has been tested.  G If you received a ball that does not light, sell it to a big company in B Redmond for a million dollars they are used to that kind of thing.  L If you are outside of the US you will be receiving a package if your name is' in the database.  It just takes longer.   J Also if people have done the automatic subscription to OpenVMS and checked4 the yes please put me in the database you are added., http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvmstimes/  
 Best Regards,    Sue   H All opinions stated are my own and should be viewed as personal opinion.        D Bill Gunshannon wrote in message <8ptlfm$2ndg$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>...9 >In article <000801c01f1a$13009570$2b96a8c6@mscmain.com>, 2 > Hank Vander Waal <hvanderw@novagate.com> writes: >|> I >|> So has everyone gotten their VMS promo package in the mail yet?  Nice  Super  >|> ball with light inside.  > H >Super Ball??  Mine was anything but "super".  It barely bounces at all.D >At least a super ball would have been fun, especially in the labs!! > < >|>                         Wtih a note from Rich M. Saying:F >|> "One of our customers recently reminded me that Compaw Open VMS onJ >|> AlphaServer systems requires such little management that you can spend some& >|> time having a little fun.  Enjoy!" > I >Yeah, but some of us don't have Alphas.  Of course, I'll gladly trade my  >super ball for a couple.  >  >bill  >  >-- K >Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves E >bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.  >University of Scranton   | ? >Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:16:49 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>  Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promo , Message-ID: <39C283AE.12DA8AD4@videotron.ca>   Sue Skonetski wrote: > We are VMS and we have balls!   J I am not sure how to react to that one, seing as it is coming from someone- whose first name is "Sue" :-) ;-) ;-) :-) :-)   N > Yes there are batteries in the balls and if you drop the ball in a stairwellF > that is 4 floors high, replacing the battery is no longer a problem.> > Neither is bouncing the ball to much.  This has been tested.  J So, that is what VMS marketing does all day eh ?????? Does this fall underM quality control, or just certifying the balls to operate satisfactorily under - different types of industry standard stairs ?      :-) :-)    ------------------------------   Date: 15 Sep 2000 20:19:51 GMT* From: bdwheele@indiana.edu (Brian Wheeler) Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promo 3 Message-ID: <8pu097$top$1@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu>   , In article <39C283AE.12DA8AD4@videotron.ca>,0 	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes: > Sue Skonetski wrote:  >> We are VMS and we have balls! > L > I am not sure how to react to that one, seing as it is coming from someone/ > whose first name is "Sue" :-) ;-) ;-) :-) :-)    It could be "a boy named sue".   *ducks*    I'll go back to lurking now.   Brian    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:06:03 -0400 5 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam>  Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promo 6 Message-ID: <8ptvd8$dko$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  H I have no idea, that mailer was done by a vendor working with the MARCOM people.   $ We are hiring a lot of college kids.   Sue     / norm.raphael@jamesbury.com wrote in message ...  >  > G >Thanks, Sue.  Now who's picture is that on the OpenVMS Times postcard?  >  >O >X >t >> >p >0 >o >e >0   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 20:20:52 GMT 4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promor= Message-ID: <Ewvw5.23488$pu4.2040483@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>s   > F > > Yes there are batteries in the balls and if you drop the ball in a	 stairwell H > > that is 4 floors high, replacing the battery is no longer a problem.@ > > Neither is bouncing the ball to much.  This has been tested. >VL > So, that is what VMS marketing does all day eh ?????? Does this fall underI > quality control, or just certifying the balls to operate satisfactorily  undera/ > different types of industry standard stairs ?h >   J This is for MILSPEC certification. Note that the VMS Balls are designed toI bounce under a broad range of climatic conditions, unlike some enterpriser servers I could mention...	 > :-) :-)t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:47:05 -0400I5 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam>y Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promoI6 Message-ID: <8pu1q6$e22$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  A Its a woman named Sue or if you are exchange user susan.skonetskid   Testing the ball  G Since I have never seen VMS bounce I wanted to see what it looked like!   J There are 2 LEDS a battery a coper wire and a transister on the inside and= probably a few other bits as well, but I could not find them.i  G We were going to milspec it but it was going to cost us to much for theA laser.   SueM      % Terry C. Shannon wrote in message ...  >>G >> > Yes there are batteries in the balls and if you drop the ball in aR
 >stairwellI >> > that is 4 floors high, replacing the battery is no longer a problem.-A >> > Neither is bouncing the ball to much.  This has been tested.a >>G >> So, that is what VMS marketing does all day eh ?????? Does this falld under J >> quality control, or just certifying the balls to operate satisfactorily >under0 >> different types of industry standard stairs ? >> >lK >This is for MILSPEC certification. Note that the VMS Balls are designed tosJ >bounce under a broad range of climatic conditions, unlike some enterprise >servers I could mention... 
 >> :-) :-) >g >t   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:11:49 -0400t* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promoe- Message-ID: <39C29095.6916B683@tsoft-inc.com>s   Sue Skonetski wrote: > C > Its a woman named Sue or if you are exchange user susan.skonetskis >  > Testing the ball > I > Since I have never seen VMS bounce I wanted to see what it looked like!  > L > There are 2 LEDS a battery a coper wire and a transister on the inside and? > probably a few other bits as well, but I could not find them.  > I > We were going to milspec it but it was going to cost us to much for thev > laser. >  > Sue   > Forget Milspec.  What I want to know is if it is STATIC proof?  G If this were a Sun promo, you could only bounce it in a narrow range of K temperatures and humidity.  Coming close to a cat would surely destroy it. i STATIC!    Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 22:31:01 GMTI= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)  Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promoR0 Message-ID: <009F02CB.9043268A@SendSpamHere.ORG>  Z In article <39C29095.6916B683@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >Sue Skonetski wrote:T >>  D >> Its a woman named Sue or if you are exchange user susan.skonetski >> E >> Testing the ball  >> RJ >> Since I have never seen VMS bounce I wanted to see what it looked like! >> SM >> There are 2 LEDS a battery a coper wire and a transister on the inside and @ >> probably a few other bits as well, but I could not find them. >> rJ >> We were going to milspec it but it was going to cost us to much for the	 >> laser.e >> - >> Sue >A? >Forget Milspec.  What I want to know is if it is STATIC proof?c >dH >If this were a Sun promo, you could only bounce it in a narrow range ofL >temperatures and humidity.  Coming close to a cat would surely destroy it.  >STATIC! >l >Dave    PAH-LEEZ!!!e  E The S/HIT ratio (that would be the SUN to Harrison-Information-Trans->E missions ration or Andrew SHIT for short) has been quite high in this>E newsgroup of late.  Please don't entice that information transmitter nE further or the S/HIT here will creep further and further toward total> saturation!e  aE ... and Rob, I know you and look forward to seeing you in LA but can >F you please give up.  A. H. is merely here to spread FUD like a farmer D spreads manure on a newly sown field whilst trying to wipe the morn-% ing's eggs off of his company's face.d  F Let's HALON extinguish this A. H. crap (a tie in to yet another silly  WAY OFF TOPIC thread).   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMm            *O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them..   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Sep 2000 22:26:57 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promoi+ Message-ID: <5aTgw7iSK$mi@eisner.decus.org>   Z In article <39C29095.6916B683@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > Sue Skonetski wrote: >> nD >> Its a woman named Sue or if you are exchange user susan.skonetski >> r >> Testing the ballR >> rJ >> Since I have never seen VMS bounce I wanted to see what it looked like! >> bM >> There are 2 LEDS a battery a coper wire and a transister on the inside andS@ >> probably a few other bits as well, but I could not find them. >> sJ >> We were going to milspec it but it was going to cost us to much for the	 >> laser.t >> o >> Sue > @ > Forget Milspec.  What I want to know is if it is STATIC proof? > I > If this were a Sun promo, you could only bounce it in a narrow range of M > temperatures and humidity.  Coming close to a cat would surely destroy it. r	 > STATIC!i >   @ 	No... I am quite convinced it is temperature.  If it is outside@ 	a certain temperature range it would still bounce but the light= 	wouldn't flash.  I think it has to stay between 72-73 F (forp> 	non Americans.. let me do a little conversion 22-23 F).  Just< 	a theory but I will have to check with my handler to see if 	that is right.1   				Rob(   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 23:07:54 -0400d, From: taterskins@patriot.net (Ramon L. Tate) Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promoaD Message-ID: <taterskins-ya023480001509002307540001@news.patriot.net>  F In article <8ptmla$bqc$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, "Sue Skonetski"& <susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam> wrote:   > We are VMS and we have balls!e > ' [fun but irrelevant stuff snipped away]a  H To move this to a more serious mood, I had reason today to be looking atJ some Web sites that made telling points about just how ridiculous Compaq'sJ marketing of VMS has been and continues to be. One site in particular (URLJ on request, but you can surely find it yourselves) powerfully demonstratesE just how the MicroShaft juggernaught has attained its position in theS market.i  J This site is operated by an IT company that is dedicated to pushing the MSG Way for all comers. They train, they develop, they do it all - but only-I using MS stuff. And guess who they are partnering with (hint: begins with  "C", ends with "q")?  K So where are the comparable partnerships and programs that market VMS-based-
 solutions?  H And, btw, why doesn't Compaq buy a couple of those mailing lists that weC know are out there that CAN target the non-Compaq customers who buysK business systems. THOSE are the people who need to hear about VMS, not "thef choir"!e   --  
 Ramon L. Tate<	 Casa Maa1= taterskins@patriot.net   "Skin" that "tater" before replying!n   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 22:44:00 -0500e7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>o Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promo - Message-ID: <39C2EC80.C0A78902@earthlink.net>e   David A Froble wrote:k >  > Hank Vander Waal wrote:e > >oO > > So has everyone gotten their VMS promo package in the mail yet?  Nice SuperS= > > ball with light inside.  Wtih a note from Rich M. Saying:cF > > "One of our customers recently reminded me that Compaw Open VMS onO > > AlphaServer systems requires such little management that you can spend some-& > > time having a little fun.  Enjoy!" > > H > > We already know that Rich!!!! Tell the rest of the folks out there!! > B > Well, some of the problem is that they may not know who to tell.   Anyone and everyone.  N> > Sue Skonetski has asked in the past for names and addresses.  H Contact a former employer of mine, Metromail Corp. in Lombard, IL. MajorD source of mailing lists for business as well as home of the National Consumer Database.   http://www.metromail.com/a2 http://www.experian.com/direct_marketing/products/  a [snip]   -- e David J. Dachterag dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/t  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.0   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 22:14:48 GMTa% From: hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net>p; Subject: Re: FS: Cheap 164LX with 533Mhz 21164 CPU anybody?20 Message-ID: <39C29F89.CA5D7F1B@bellatlantic.net>   Dan Allen wrote: >  > > -----Original Message-----; > > From: Zane H. Healy [mailto:healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com]>- > > Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 12:09 AMn > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComE? > > Subject: Re: FS: Cheap 164LX with 533Mhz 21164 CPU anybody?n > >y > >e: > > David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote: > > > Fred Kleinsorge wrote: > > >>: > > >> Actually, you will have better luck with the 264DP. > >O- > > > Who makes it, and where can I get them?o > >rJ > > The question should be, how much will one cost!  I don't think they'reP > > something a Hobbyist can afford, and Hobbyists are the only ones that should5 > > be messing with such a unsupported configuration.t > J >   Why?  I've run various "unsupported" VMS configurations over the yearsJ >   with very good success.  If you can save your company significant $$$$K >   and the system runs with sufficient reliability (most of mine have been H >   totally reliable) what's the problem? Heck, even my 164LX which FredH >   and Hoff assert (and I believe them!!) to have exhibited problems inK >   their testing runs 24 X 7 on my desktop churning out C compiles.  A lotaE >   better reliability than the supported configuration on my NT box.f >  >   Dann > >                       ZaneB I want to say there are at least two kinds of folks in this world,0 folks who don't take chances, and those that do.G VMS is reliable, even an old antivax bigot like me admits that, period.SC IT is exceptionally reliable when you run it on a supported config.oB However, it is a rather good feeling to have it run solid on a nonA supported config and blow the socks off all folks with rebooting,d crashing, wintel boxes!! Yeah!! Think outside the box.s bobc     > >. > >t   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Sep 2000 22:39:03 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman); Subject: Re: FS: Cheap 164LX with 533Mhz 21164 CPU anybody?e6 Message-ID: <8pu8e7$f7t$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  J :   Why?  I've run various "unsupported" VMS configurations over the yearsJ :   with very good success.  If you can save your company significant $$$$K :   and the system runs with sufficient reliability (most of mine have been-* :   totally reliable) what's the problem?   G   Out of curiousity, where does a company acquire the (commercial-use, sF   non-hobbyist) software license(s) necessary for these (unsupported)    platforms?    H   I can understand how a license can be acquired for a supported system G   platform running in unsupported configurations -- I have more than a rG   little experience with screwy hardware widgets and odd-ball parameter F   settings and wierd software -- but I do not know how to acquire the A   necessary commercial software product license(s) for use on an t   unsupported platform.t  K   There are folks in various corporate and governmental organizations that eH   and and do deal with these sorts of licensing issues, and clearly withJ   far more authority and knowledge of the subject than I have.  This wholeD   platform licensing topic certainly looks to be worth some further J   research -- I'll check with the local product management and folks that J   deal with the various sorts of software licensing issues that can arise.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 03:08:01 GMTr2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>; Subject: Re: FS: Cheap 164LX with 533Mhz 21164 CPU anybody?c6 Message-ID: <luBw5.345$F93.129503@typhoon.aracnet.com>  ( Dan Allen <daniel.allen@nist.gov> wrote:J >   Why?  I've run various "unsupported" VMS configurations over the yearsJ >   with very good success.  If you can save your company significant $$$$K >   and the system runs with sufficient reliability (most of mine have beenfH >   totally reliable) what's the problem? Heck, even my 164LX which FredH >   and Hoff assert (and I believe them!!) to have exhibited problems inK >   their testing runs 24 X 7 on my desktop churning out C compiles.  A lothE >   better reliability than the supported configuration on my NT box.a  H OK, you're obviously talking a DEVELOPMENT system here, not a PRODUCTIONH system.  I can see running a little loose and dangerous on a developmentK system, however, if you're running that way on a production system I've got K to question why you're on VMS in the first place (well, I suppose if that'sr3 the only way you can afford to be running VMS....).m   			Zane-   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Sep 2000 13:34:06 GMT% From: glass2@glass2.lexington.ibm.come& Subject: Re: Halon dump - a data point1 Message-ID: <8pt8ge$cqo$4@ausnews.austin.ibm.com>   W In <39BFE5F5.17693B7A@trailing-edge.com>, Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> writes:tH >A couple years ago we had a thread about Halon fire-suppressing systems= >used in computer rooms.   Through the school of hard knocks, 4 >I just learned first hand how such systems operate. >,F >Today at work (let's just call it a "large employer in the WashingtonA >DC area") we had a memorable incident in Operations Control whene9 >someone (with undoubtedly good intentions) unscrewed theo> >solenoid controlling the valve and dumped - without warning -6 >2500 pounds of Halon 1301 into the room in just a fewA >seconds.  (Operations is a *big* room.  It was fitted with eight0 >giant red tanks of Halon.)d >a> >Normally there'd be a thirty-second delay as an audible alarm= >allowed the occupants to clear the room, but this feature is3- >bypassed if you go straight to the solenoid!s >n> >The sudden pressure from the halon dump sent numerous ceilingG >tiles flying, as well as large stacks of paper that were blown off thes> >consoles.  Not everyone evacuated immediately - several folksA >in safety-critical roles stuck around for ten or fifteen minutesgD >until the firefighters showed up with air packs that allowed others< >to relieve them.  Some who did stick around eventually left? >in ambulances (I *hope* just to run some precautionary tests.)  >sC >The good news: the computers didn't hiccup at all during all this.  >t: >Moderately good news: Halon dumps aren't instantly fatal.@ >Seeing as how I spend a good fraction of my day within a couple? >of feet of some giant red Halon tanks in the concrete bunker -wE >oops, officially it's called "computer room" - this is good to know. D >I'd been heavily trained that when the Halon dump alarm sounds, youD >*get out*.  Now I know a little more, especially about the dead-man> >switch you can use to delay an electronically-triggered dump. >8A >This Halon is Good Stuff.  Other than some grit blasted from thet< >ceiling tiles, there was zero debris left in the machinery.= >What's the "environmentally friendly" equivalent used today? B >Is there such an equivalent - something that will put out a fire,1 >but at the same time not damage vital equipment?l >a >Tim.?  A Congratulations, Tim, on surviving the halon dump.  It'd be a lota( less interesting place here without you.  D Do most installations have the operators and consoles in the machine? room?  In our installation, the operators have their own littleu@ room, which is environmentally conditioned to be comfortable for9 humans, while the machines have their own space, which is-A environmentally conditioned for machines.  And, the the two don'te> typically enter each other's domains (e.g., no machines in the6 operator area, no operators in the machine area).  :*)  @ Of course, this configuration isn't without drawbacks.  We had a@ disk drive start producing errors once.  No one could understandC what was going wrong until one of the operations people stuck theirtA head into the machine room and noticed the flames coming from thew top of the drive.  Whoops!  C Actually, now the processors are on the main floor of the building, D while the disk drives are downstairs.  And, they typically even keep& the lights off in the disk drive area.   Dave  F P.S. Standard Disclaimer: I work for them, but I don't speak for them.   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Sep 2000 18:55:09 PDT* From: abuse@flying-disk.com (Alan Frisbie)& Subject: Re: Halon dump - a data point! Message-ID: <wwjl0uf7v92k@flying>?  > In article <1F5w5.22874$pu4.1991860@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, 6 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  C >> Your story leaves me with only one question: what does 2500 lbs r >> of Halon cost?a  ? > Good question. Back in the mid seventies when I designed firei@ > protection systems, Halon was about five bucks a pound. In the> > post-UN treaty era, it's one hell of lot more expensive than@ > that. I'd be interested in learning what the current price is;/ > IIRC it's well over $25 per pound these days.e  9 Funny you should ask.   Just last week we suffered an air 7 conditioning failure.   The technician hooked up gaugese9 and declared that the system was totally devoid of freon, 9 R500 to be precise.   (This was a 1960's vintage system.)   A We were shocked to learn that the price of R500 is $40 per pound!r  : He suggested that it would be wise to leak test the system) with nitrogen before re-loading it.   :-)   5 You can imagine our relief when the technician, afterv4 fiddling around with the nitrogen tank and fittings,2 announced that he had been mistaken.   Apparently,6 there was some incompatibility between a fitting/valve0 on our system and his much newer test equipment.3 This caused him believe that there was no pressure.- Whew!i   -- eB --  Alan E. Frisbie             Frisbie "AT" Flying-Disk "DOT" Com@ --  Flying Disk Systems, Inc.   Abuse "AT" Flying-Disk "DOT" Com   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 05:24:44 GMT ) From: cpkc@datanet.ab.ca (Colin Campbell) & Subject: Re: Halon dump - a data point0 Message-ID: <39c30200.495519@news.datanet.ab.ca>  D On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:22:07 -0700, Koloth <koloth@tmisnet.com> gave forth:  : >It wasn't a computer room but a large indoor radar range. <snip> clarifying his earlier posting:e >> Koloth wrote: >>R >> > I worked at to remain unnamed company with a large enclosure that needed fireQ >> > protection.  The space was 180' by 130' by 90'.  Needless to say it needed aeQ >> > large amount of Halon.  I think the tanks outside were about the size of twos >> > railroad tanker cars. <snip>E Now I gotta ask: WTF do you do with a radar range that small? TestingeF speed traps comes to mind, but even then, how would you get any decent speed to test?E Or, was the PPOE the Amana Corporation with grandiose ideas, perhaps?c   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:18:39 -0400 (EDT)t2 From: "Douglas S. Meade" <vaxboy@inforum2.umd.edu> Subject: Re: Hobbyist Cluster?G Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.20.0009151517590.15121-100000@inforum2.umd.edu>    Bill,I  ? You inspired me.  I'm going to add a MicroVax II to my cluster.e   Doug    & On 13 Sep 2000, Bill Gunshannon wrote:   > |> :one (1) MicroVAX IIt > |> tI > |>   Old, very slow, needs 16 MB if you really plan to try to use it on>I > |>   anything approaching a current release.  And it's still old (circai > |>   1986) and slow. > P > People keep telling me this, but these are what I have.  Believe it or not :-)N > VMS runs better on these than the latest release of NetBSD which is too slowN > to be of any practical use (trying to recompile the kernel takes more than aB > week. I don't know exactly as I didn't wait long enough to see.) >  > |> :Last question:R > |> :    Does everyone here think I'm crazy to even try to get a system like this > |> :     working??  :-)m > |> -N > |>   Not really, though systems of this vintage will be very slow -- variousP > |>   recent VAXstation systems will be more than thirty times faster than the  > |>   VAXstation II series. > L > True, but again, this is what I got and I'd rather run it than just use itB > to hold the door open.  It can't be any slower than my PDP-11's. > - > Can you tell how much I like DEC hardware??s > # > Thanks for all the help everyone.e >  > bill >  > -- tL > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |C > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   t >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:40:53 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.bri Subject: Re: Hobbyist Cluster?L Message-ID: <OF366724DF.53023BD5-ON8325695B.006BDF04@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  H Do you have any information about MicroVMS ?  I remember when I began to work with VAX/VMS (1989) thereG was a literature from DEC, but now Im  trying to search anything on thel Internet but I dont match !!!!   Regardst  
 Fabio CardosoF Analista de Suporte OpenVMSm# Petrobras - Rio de Janeiro - Brasilu7 ---------------------- Encaminhado por Fabio dos Santos I Cardoso/E-P-BC/Contratada em 15/09/2000 16:31 ---------------------------a        C "Douglas S. Meade" <vaxboy@INFORUM2.UMD.EDU> em 15/09/2000 16:18:39T>                                                               >                                                               >                                                               >  Para:    Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com                               >                                                               >  cc:      (bcc: Fabio dos Santos Cardoso/E-P-BC/Contratada)   >                                                               >                                                               >                                                               >  Assunto: Re: Hobbyist Cluster?                               >                                                                              Bill,m  ? You inspired me.  I'm going to add a MicroVax II to my cluster.t   Doug    & On 13 Sep 2000, Bill Gunshannon wrote:   > |> :one (1) MicroVAX IIy > |>I > |>   Old, very slow, needs 16 MB if you really plan to try to use it oneI > |>   anything approaching a current release.  And it's still old (circa  > |>   1986) and slow. >qH > People keep telling me this, but these are what I have.  Believe it or not :-)eI > VMS runs better on these than the latest release of NetBSD which is toon slowG > to be of any practical use (trying to recompile the kernel takes more  than aB > week. I don't know exactly as I didn't wait long enough to see.) >- > |> :Last question:H > |> :    Does everyone here think I'm crazy to even try to get a system	 like thisi > |> :     working??  :-)a > |>F > |>   Not really, though systems of this vintage will be very slow -- various K > |>   recent VAXstation systems will be more than thirty times faster thano thec > |>   VAXstation II series. >SI > True, but again, this is what I got and I'd rather run it than just useo itB > to hold the door open.  It can't be any slower than my PDP-11's. >e- > Can you tell how much I like DEC hardware??y >c# > Thanks for all the help everyone.t >f > bill >" > --E > Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Threee wolvesF > bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton   |@ > Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h> >    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:15:07 -0500a/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>a Subject: Re: Hobbyist Cluster?O Message-ID: <4F34E1E64A699B1F.49033C7F2CC0B6E4.0D3EA0E0E86EB6F2@lp.airnews.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > Q > In article <FAAA48102A45094D.0CF92B0355E2EC79.0581E65AEF388CA5@lp.airnews.net>,e4 >  Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes: > |>G > |> If you don't put a graphics board in your MV II, it will work much K > |> better.  Motif takes a big chunk of memory and is pretty slow on MV IIpH > |> graphics hardware.  Running it through terminals, though, does work > |> pretty well.d > $ > But, where's the fun in that?? :-)  C The fun is when you add a 4MB VS2000 to your cluster (with the MVIItD serving disks to it), run Motif on the VS2000, then stress test your; network and disks by trying to log into the VS2000.  <grin>   e  J > |> My personal favorite for the VS3100 system disk is a Seagate ST41200NM > |> (aka CDC Wren 7).  This is a 1GB 5 1/4" disk, so it will need a separate J > |> box (an SZ12 works well.  Need one?), but it is built like a tank and > M > Well, it wouldn't hurt.  All you can fit inside are real small (physically) N > disks.  I probably have some full height 5 1/4" drives in the couple hundredP > megabyte range that could be used for VMS if I had something to stuff them in.  D If you need an external box for 5 1/4" drives, contact me.  I have aB couple that I could free up.  Actually, I think that I have a fullG height 1GB drive here, but I would have to check to see if it meets then  VS3100 system disk requirements.    L > |> If you have a VAXstation 3100 without an additional graphics board, youM > |> have a mono system.  There is one other possibility to check.  Make sureiM > |> that you have a mono video cable.  If you don't match the cable with thel. > |> graphics, you won't get a picture either. > L > Well, I wondered about that.  I was told it didn't make any difference butH > the cable I have has keyboard and mouse connectors on the monitor end.J > Considering that the keyboard and mouse plug into the back of the systemK > unit, this seemed rather strange.  I suspected this was the cable I would I > need to hook up to the graphics system on the MicroVAX II when I put itlM > together.  Could be I was right and the problem is only the wrong cable anda > not bad hardware in the box.  F You must match the cable with the video controller.  If you don't, youD won't get any display on your monitor.  So, yes, it can be the wrong cable.  E I don't remember whether or not the cable with the keyboard and mouse G connectors works properly with the VS3100.  I suspect that it might for3G a GPX or mono VS3100.  If you use an SPX graphics board, don't use this:8 cable.  It is too long and can degrade the video signal.  G Yes, this cable was meant for the VAXstation II, which usually sat nextnH to the desk.  The cable was necessary to go from the base of the BA23 toA the top of the desk.  The VS3100 usually sits on the desk, so ther3 keyboard and mouse can be plugged directly into it.e  
 Good luck!  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------n$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com l   Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 00:02:52 -0500m< From: Dale Lobb <lordgeep@nospam.inetnebr.nospam.com.nospam> Subject: Home Built Machine???A Message-ID: <39C2FEFB.B3CB0881@nospam.inetnebr.nospam.com.nospam>f  > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> Hi All!!I <p>Has anyone attempted to build thier own Alpha OpenVMS machine from thekJ UP1500 or UP2000 motherboards available from Alpha Processor?&nbsp; I justH finished reading a bunch of the tech notes on thier site, and while theyI don't specifically say that OpenVMS is supported by the newer boards, allcG the boards run the SRM console, and the console firmware revisions looklI similar to ones I seem to recall from recent firmware upgrades on my ES40aJ at work.&nbsp; I realize that it is completly unsupported, but does anyoneD want to hazard an informed guess as to the possibilities of success? <p>Thanks for the insights.....i <p>Dale J <p>P.S. for personal e-mail, remove all "nospam"s from the return address.
 <br>&nbsp; <br>&nbsp;</html>    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 01:53:09 -0500w1 From: Jeff Schreiber <SCHREIBER@Eisner.DECUS.org>3 Subject: Re: kill nslookup1 Message-ID: <01JU81YM8PBC008ROX@Eisner.DECUS.org>   + helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) wrote:nA >In article <01JU71HFZJMQ008NE4@Eisner.DECUS.org>, Jeff Schreiber & ><SCHREIBER@Eisner.DECUS.org> writes: - >>helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) wrote: J >>>Note that Exit does not work either, but pressing ^Z does (difficult toH >>>do in a .COM file, however, which is where I often run this program). >>J >>   "exit" does work.. it's just that when it comes to commands, nslookupM >>   is case sensitive.  Since DNS is not case sensitive, having the commandsnM >>   be case sensitive makes it so that if you actually wanted to look up theRJ >>   record with the name of "exit" you can by just uppercasing one of the
 >>   letters.  >e >Granted, but---bug or feature?n  I   When I first got bit by it, I assumed it was a bug, until I sat down toaI   fix the problem, and realized if you make the 'exit' command [or any ofMH   the others] case insensitive, you'll never be able to look up a recordG   of the same name as a command.  By having it case sensitive, you can nF   look up names that are the same as any of the commands by just upper   casing the word.     For example:  A ! The following command changes the default server to node "yoyo"r
 > server yoyot! Default Server:  yoyo.process.coms Address:  198.115.140.100o  ? ! The following command looks up the name Server on node "dyne"a
 > Server dynet Server:  dyne.process.com  Address:  198.115.140.101"    Name:    Server.ipv6.process.com Address:  198.115.138.23  >   Without the case sensitivity, you wouldn't be able to do the6   lookup shown, because it would take it as a command.  %                                 -Jeff    ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 01:32:04 -0500o1 From: Jeff Schreiber <SCHREIBER@Eisner.DECUS.org>aD Subject: Re: OpenVMS and TCPIP version and support od "Dual path IP"1 Message-ID: <01JU81FVWT7M008ROX@Eisner.DECUS.org>l  D Hoff Hoffman Wrote:                                                  >eH >  I'd certainly want to "ring it out", but MultiNet might well have an H >  interesting point about performance when the interconnects over-load.I >  (This configuration requires a connection to the same LAN segment, so yG >  the load on this LAN segment would also potentially come into play.)f >                            Hoff, J   I'd assume your going to be out at CETS (pronounced "DECUS") in a coupleG   weeks.  We'd be happy to talk about it with anyone who is interested.T  I   We actually showed it off in San Diego last year in TCPware, and put itrK   into Multinet this year.  The original developer for the TCPware one willa@   be in LA, along with the developer that coded it for Multinet.   						-Jeffi   --/ Jeff Schreiber,            Process Software LLC 1 schreiber@mx.process.com   http://www.process.com +      TCPware & MultiNet: Stronger than Everm   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:41:47 -0400e5 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam>t Subject: OpenVMS Employmento6 Message-ID: <8pu1g8$e15$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  L Folks I received the following and was asked to put it here.  Please use the* contact name at the bottom of the message.  
 Warm Regards,h   Suei0 ________________________________________________ Sue,  L I'm looking to increase my VMS staff in the secure practice.  I have severalL unit managers with open req's for  on-site VMS consultants.  I'm looking for1 fairly senior folks, with a couple of conditions:a  3  US Citizenship (Only, no dual citizenship allowed)   H  Slots in the Los Angeles California, Denver Colorado, and Washington DC  /  Willing to obtain a US Govt Security Clearancen    Minimum commitment, 1 yeari  0  Current on VMS operating system (VAX and Alpha)  B  Have skills in programming, applications, and use system services  D  Have System Management skills (Installations, upgrades, clustering)  9  Networking skills (DECnet {Phase IV and Phase V}, TCP/IPd  4  Understands fault isolation and problem escalations      L ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------  I  If the folks know of customer, interesting in working for Compaq, that's  great!  J  Your welcome to send this to the Ambassadors list, however, many of "our" folksi  are not US citizens....  H  The VMS business is growing, and I'm no longer able to have a personnel life,r0  so, management is willing to add head count....    Al-   Al Meier/ Systems Engineering Consultant / HPC - Realtimem3 Member of VMS Engineering, and VMS/UNIX AmbassadorsH Professional Servicest Compaq Federal LLC4 7272 South Mount Holy Cross, Littleton CO 80127-3205 Work: (303) 638-5856 Pager: (888) 251-7496o Fax:        (303) 973-0345 Pager:L www.skytel.com/paging/pageme.cgi?pin=2517496,2&reply=3036385856@mobile.att.n et Email:  Al.Meier@Compaq.Como   ------------------------------    Date: 15 Sep 2000 15:28:51 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)& Subject: Re: QUANTUM, AWSTIME and IOTA+ Message-ID: <+aR7JY4LUNfy@eisner.decus.org>t  V In article <0025695B.005C9FC8.00@quegw01.btyp>, Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk writes: > cc:  > bcc:? > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plazag >  > QUANTUM, AWSTIME and IOTA  >  > L > We have a system upon which someone in the past reset QUANTUM and AWSTIME,C > reducing them to 5. IOTA remains at 2. Should I reduce this to 1?a > M > Not sure what information I should offer to help anyone to help me, but thetN > system(s) are clustered 8400s, running OVMS 7.1-2 and Oracle. I am trying toN > improve response times. I know that changes like this may influence responseJ > times only minimally, but I have to be seen to be doing something by the > beancounters...i > N > Alternatively, any resources about which will fully explain the relationship > between these? >  > TIAe >    Steve,  . 	I don't mess with IOTA... no .. not one iota!  " 	$ mcr sysgen help param spec iota  A 	shows it effect voluntary wait , etc.  Maybe some folks have had = 	results with this... feel free to share.  What bothers me is4	 	you say:r  ) 	"I am trying to improve response times."j  > 	Okay.  But what does that mean?  Do you have PC clients using@ 	 a GUI accessing Oracle?  So then , they enter info "click" and 	the return is too long?  C 	In others words, where is the bottleneck as best you can determines? 	and why do you feel that way?  Instead of "feeling", how about> 	some empiracal evidence?  d  / 	$ moni disk/item=queue   ! Long queue lengths?>  8 	$ moni syst		 ! Out of CPU?  A lot of proceses (10+) in 				  MWAITe  @ 	Many other drilling down things we can do but we need some more 	info.   				Robw   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:20:28 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>& Subject: Re: QUANTUM, AWSTIME and IOTA- Message-ID: <39C2929C.50F21123@tsoft-inc.com>    Rob Young wrote: > X > In article <0025695B.005C9FC8.00@quegw01.btyp>, Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk writes: > > cc:1 > > bcc:A > > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plazaj > >R > > QUANTUM, AWSTIME and IOTAD > >n > >.N > > We have a system upon which someone in the past reset QUANTUM and AWSTIME,E > > reducing them to 5. IOTA remains at 2. Should I reduce this to 1?  > > O > > Not sure what information I should offer to help anyone to help me, but theoP > > system(s) are clustered 8400s, running OVMS 7.1-2 and Oracle. I am trying toP > > improve response times. I know that changes like this may influence responseL > > times only minimally, but I have to be seen to be doing something by the > > beancounters...t > >tP > > Alternatively, any resources about which will fully explain the relationship > > between these? > >e > > TIAs > >  >  > Steve, > 7 >         I don't mess with IOTA... no .. not one iota!  > + >         $ mcr sysgen help param spec iota  > J >         shows it effect voluntary wait , etc.  Maybe some folks have hadF >         results with this... feel free to share.  What bothers me is >         you say: > 2 >         "I am trying to improve response times." > G >         Okay.  But what does that mean?  Do you have PC clients usinggI >          a GUI accessing Oracle?  So then , they enter info "click" andh! >         the return is too long?r > L >         In others words, where is the bottleneck as best you can determineH >         and why do you feel that way?  Instead of "feeling", how about" >         some empiracal evidence? > 8 >         $ moni disk/item=queue   ! Long queue lengths? > L >         $ moni syst              ! Out of CPU?  A lot of proceses (10+) in) >                                   MWAIT. > I >         Many other drilling down things we can do but we need some more  >         info.i > % >                                 RobR   Good stuff from Rob.  * However, I'd question your starting point.  K Possibly measure current performance, then reset the parameters back to the O default settings, and check performance again.  Based upon the results, you canE them begin tuning, or not.  F When tuning, you need a baseline, and the defaults are as good as any.   Dave   -- s4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 00:55:04 +0200 " From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl>& Subject: Re: QUANTUM, AWSTIME and IOTA( Message-ID: <8pu8ut$bae$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  * The way I've interpreted these parameters:' QUANTUM : the time slice a process gets 4 IOTA : the penalty incurred on QUANTUM for doing DIOB AWSTIME : the timeinterval after which working set adjustments are calculated.t  F For VAX/VMS these parameters are : QUANTUM:=20 AWSTIME:=20 and IOTA:=2  F So, if you're system has one cpu intensive process that needs a favor, increaseL QUANTUM. Most other processes will do DIO's and you can increase the penalty (i.e. IOTA)  to get them off the cpu fast.   I What I've seen at home, AWSTIME is not that much of an influence. I guess  thatC the best value for AWSTIME equals QUANTUM. I could not measure realn differences.  H The values for QUANTUM and IOTA *do* make the system behave differently.F If you have several cpu hungry tasks in the ready to run queue for the	 processorhK then it really does not matter what you do with them I guess. What you needq then ise a faster machine.i  
 Hans Vlems  : Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk heeft geschreven in bericht& <0025695B.005C9FC8.00@quegw01.btyp>... >cc: >bcc:n> >Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza >l >QUANTUM, AWSTIME and IOTA >  >'K >We have a system upon which someone in the past reset QUANTUM and AWSTIME,:B >reducing them to 5. IOTA remains at 2. Should I reduce this to 1? >tL >Not sure what information I should offer to help anyone to help me, but theJ >system(s) are clustered 8400s, running OVMS 7.1-2 and Oracle. I am trying toD >improve response times. I know that changes like this may influence responseI >times only minimally, but I have to be seen to be doing something by then >beancounters... >h@ >Alternatively, any resources about which will fully explain the relationship >between these?D >h >TIA >y
 >Steve Spiresf >VMS System Managero >BT/Yellow Pages >  >- >[Information] -- PostMaster: E >This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beuH >confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has beenC >addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce, 
 distribute or- >use this transmission.  >,I >Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee ism notuI >intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received this4G >transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.t >e >Thank you.5 >D >F >0   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:52:37 -0700e/ From: Terry Marosites <TMarosites@unitedad.com>u) Subject: SCSI Controller Exerciser/testeroM Message-ID: <1137A4A23A51D311B2D600105A1D5213026FDF53@seantexch.unitedad.com>    VMS 7.1-2 alpha    Hello all, n  L I am getting some errors on my SCSI controller 17,000 + is there some way ofB exercising this device like I can an storage controller or device?   Thanks Terry   .t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 08:06:46 -0500o" From: Earl Lakia <lakia@ipact.com>$ Subject: Re: Shareware - txt2pdf 4.0) Message-ID: <39C0CD66.383C3742@ipact.com>e  : Additionally, our company sells a RUNOFF to Microsoft Word; converter if anyone is interested.  Email to info@ipact.comS   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Sep 2000 16:00:21 PDTT From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515)= Subject: Re: System node identifier and cluster configurationh3 Message-ID: <mOHM8x$D5t+y@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>f  - In article <39C1B9D2.257D211@tsoft-inc.com>,  1     	David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:a [...]oM > I have to ask, why would you ever cluster the production system(s) with theiH > development system(s)?  I'd want as much separation there as possible.  H         There _are_ advantages to  being  clustered.  The Control SystemH     for  the  Stanford Linear Accelerator Center runs on a AS4100  5/400H     (dual processors, 2GB memory), but we have a "twin"  AS4100  in  theH     cluster  (as  well as a bunch of older hardware, sigh...).  That is,H     one AS4100 is  the  production  node  and  the  other  AS4100 is theH     development  node; the production AS4100 runs the production controlH     system (with full access to _all_ the distributed hardware) and  theH     development As4100 runs the development control system (with limited      access to testbed hardware).  H         The two biggest advantages  I  see  (in  5 years of running thisH     cluster)  are (1) file sharing: software releases primarily  involveH     _renaming_, not copying...and not copying over the network; and  (2)H     the  ease  of  doing  a  failover  just  by editing one line in (the     shared) SYLOGICALS.COM.l  H         Point (1) also makes it  extremely  easy  to back-out a softwareH     release,  and  to  test  a development  release  in  the  productionH     enviroment (the latter just requires a few process logical names  toH     be  defined).   [Perhaps  I  should add that our "software releases"H     amount to releasing one (or more) of about 50 shared images.  RarelyH     does the main application  need  to  be  relinked.  Testing a sharedH     image  requires  just defining a logical name to point to  the  testH     shared image (developers do this) rather than the production image.]  H         Since we are _not_ running  a homogeneous VMScluster, "failover"H     is  our  solution to (extended) hardware outages of  the  productionH     node.  However the cluster environment makes  this  much  easier  toH     manager  because  of  the  shared  system disk (and the disk farm in
     general).n  H         I haven't mentioned the  usual  cluster advantages: ease of, andH     single  point  of  management  of, the two (or more)  nodes,  and  aH     uniform user environment (the developers, as well as  the  operatorsH     and   accelerator   physicists,  all  see  the  identical  SYS$LOGINH     independent of which node hte log into, as well as the advantages of&     password "synchronization", etc.).  H         So while I'm _not_ recommending that everyone go out and clusterH     the production and develpment systems,  I  did want to point out the2     advantages of doing so in _some_ environments.           -Ken -- yM  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Eduo:  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924:  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515N  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------B  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 20:05:12 GMTD+ From: Craig A. Berry <calepine@my-deja.com>g$ Subject: Re: To VMS From SCO/Solaris) Message-ID: <8ptvd7$jq3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>i  , In article <39C0C790.B6A4BFB7@jpmorgan.com>,3   Robert Taylor <taylor_robert@jpmorgan.com> wrote:C" > Hi , is there a VMS FAQ at all ? > B > Also I'm coming from a Unix background ( mainly Unixware, bit ofB > Solaris, bit of Linux ) and if anyone has any advice it would be greatlyr' > appreciated ( no daftness please ! ).x > > > The type of task I'm doing is software development , editing
 using LSE.  @ There is a book by Philip Bourne called "Unix for VMS Users."  I? have know Unix folks who have found it quite helpful to use the 8 index and work backwards to get from the Unix concept or? command they are familiar with to the corresponding VMS concept- or command.u    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:25:54 -0400'* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>$ Subject: Re: To VMS From SCO/Solaris- Message-ID: <39C293E2.39B740EF@tsoft-inc.com>    David Mathog wrote:t > \ > In article <39C1C26C.76EC2C62@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: > 7 > >My point is, VMS is NOT dead, and is NOT going away.  > I > That depends entirely upon which market you're discussing.  VMS for allsF > intents and purposes is dead in academia as well as most science andJ > engineering related markets (and Kerry - citing the rare exceptions does/ > not invalidate the rule).  It's dead because:6  J Forget specific markets.  VMS, considering ALL markets, is turning around.    >   no new systems are going in,P >   software for such markets is essentially unavailable from commercial vendorsT >   academic (free) software is increasingly Unix centric and more difficult to portL >   academic (free) software is increasing distributed as binaries - and the0 >      people doing that never have VMS systems.L >   VMS performance on these sorts of applications is typically inferior, by+ >      huge factors, to that of other OS's.I > J > As far as I can see the only VMS growth that's evident is in data centerI > environments, where the calculations involve dollars and cents, not DNAnJ > bases or electron densities.  Which is why the newbies are coming out of > places like Morgan Stanley.p > K > >Stomping on any 'self fulfilling prophesies' may help keep the directiony > >positive. > $ > That's not our job, it's Compaq's.   Can you defend that statement?   Upon what do you base it?i  M If someone outside Compaq has any type of vested interest in VMS, then in thea? interest of furthuring their own concerns, it may be their job.r  K VMS goes away.  My software doesn't have a home.  I don't make the mortgageM2 payment, I don't have a home.  Maybe it is my job.  
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu.@ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech   Dave   -- -4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Sep 2000 22:54:51 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)$ Subject: Re: To VMS From SCO/Solaris, Message-ID: <8pu9br$pbb@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  Z In article <39C293E2.39B740EF@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >c >Forget specific markets.     E Hard to do when the market you're in is one that shows every sign of lJ continued abandonment by the vendor.  (Most greviously - the nonappearance of a revised ESL/CSLG.)    >C1 >VMS, considering ALL markets, is turning around.n >   F They're clearly selling a lot of high margin big iron to the financialH people.  More power to them.  But if there's another market sector with I improved sales there's scant evidence of it.  (Compaq sure isn't talking  0 about it - probably because it isn't happening.)  J Besides, what reason have I to suspect that any of that profit will (soon)H result in an improvement of the VMS situation in the arena where I work?H Historically (at least the last 10 years) the profits from VMS have beenG used to support an assortment of dubious business expenses (R. Palmer's K paycheck, OSF/1, er DU, er, Tru64 development, and that money sink known as.P NT/alpha.)  Even today the development funds that are VMS related are going intoG the largish platforms, where they benefit Tru64 as much as they do VMS. G (I put Tru64 in the category of dubious expenses because it is far fromnI clear that DEC wouldn't have done much better to have spent an equivalent2 amount on VMS instead.)   % >> That's not our job, it's Compaq's.- >6 >Can you defend that statement?  >    Ok, it's not MY job.   >k >Upon what do you base it? >2N >If someone outside Compaq has any type of vested interest in VMS, then in the@ >interest of furthuring their own concerns, it may be their job. > L >VMS goes away.  My software doesn't have a home.  I don't make the mortgage3 >payment, I don't have a home.  Maybe it is my job.t >e  I Risky business being that tied to the one vendor.  Compaq's interests are A not the same as yours.  They could easily decide tomorrow to stopSK supporting VMS on anything smaller than a GS60, and where will you be then?oG And worst of all, they could do it as part of a deal with Microsoft, ino< exchange for an extra $1/copy discount on the price of W2K.    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech  J **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 22:06:27 -0400?' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>s$ Subject: Re: To VMS From SCO/Solaris( Message-ID: <8pukce$4vv$1@pyrite.mv.net>  5 David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message ' news:39C293E2.39B740EF@tsoft-inc.com...s > David Mathog wrote:i > >y@ > > In article <39C1C26C.76EC2C62@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:u > > 9 > > >My point is, VMS is NOT dead, and is NOT going away.   K Absolutely true, in both respects.  But neither is VMS thriving:  it's onlyt8 holding its own, in an industry expanding all around it.   > >aK > > That depends entirely upon which market you're discussing.  VMS for allmH > > intents and purposes is dead in academia as well as most science andL > > engineering related markets (and Kerry - citing the rare exceptions does1 > > not invalidate the rule).  It's dead because:o >  > Forget specific markets.  K Probably not that good an idea - but one Compaq seems to subscribe to, withfK its 'targeted market' approach that makes it pretty obvious what markets it2H believes are important for VMS (and by omission what markets it believes aren't).  2   VMS, considering ALL markets, is turning around.  E Depends on what the meaning of 'turning around' is:  seems more to berH holding steady; if there's been an up-tick it's not one worth mentioningC save to indicate it's not actively moving in the *other* direction.    >u" > >   no new systems are going in,J > >   software for such markets is essentially unavailable from commercial vendorspD > >   academic (free) software is increasingly Unix centric and more difficult to portrJ > >   academic (free) software is increasing distributed as binaries - and thea2 > >      people doing that never have VMS systems.K > >   VMS performance on these sorts of applications is typically inferior,  by- > >      huge factors, to that of other OS's.l > >lL > > As far as I can see the only VMS growth that's evident is in data centerK > > environments, where the calculations involve dollars and cents, not DNA L > > bases or electron densities.  Which is why the newbies are coming out of > > places like Morgan Stanley.d > > C > > >Stomping on any 'self fulfilling prophesies' may help keep the 	 direction  > > >positive.  K There's nothing wrong with being a cheerleader, as long as you don't try tosF present your viewpoint as objective rather than decidedly biased.  ButC you're trying to have it both ways, and deserve to be called on it.i   > >o& > > That's not our job, it's Compaq's.  J My sentiments exactly.  And not only is it Compaq's job, but Compaq is theI *only* entity in a position to dispel the impression that VMS is stagnantcK (at best) and therefore a dubious star to hitch one's wagon to.  And Compaq H is *still* doing nothing significant (i.e., committing real money to the job) in that area.   >   > Can you defend that statement? >r > Upon what do you base it?d >uK > If someone outside Compaq has any type of vested interest in VMS, then in  the A > interest of furthuring their own concerns, it may be their job.. > D > VMS goes away.  My software doesn't have a home.  I don't make the mortgage4 > payment, I don't have a home.  Maybe it is my job.  I Could well be.  But you're probably the exception rather than the rule in J this regard, even in comp.os.vms:  most people here seem to *use* VMS, not" sell products that depend upon it.  E So you really need to decide whether you're going to be a cheerleadergK singing the Compaq corporate VMS song or an independent, objective voice ofnL reason.  Enthusiasm's fine when there's something substantive to justify it;F otherwise, it verges upon irresponsible:  the decisions VMS users makeL affect their jobs and their lives, and encouraging them to stick with VMS isG not the best advice under all circumstances, even if it might have someeG beneficial effect on VMS's overall viability (which is far from clear).    - bill   >l > > Regards, > >g > > David Mathog! > > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edusB > > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech >  > Dave >o > --6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04506 > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596@ > DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com8 > T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 21:20:31 -0500t% From: Keith Brown <kbrown780@isd.net>u$ Subject: Re: To VMS From SCO/Solaris' Message-ID: <39C2D8EF.B03B65F1@isd.net>e   Scott Vieth wrote: >  > David A Froble wrote:r > J > > So, if your company has a very successful product, which is still veryR > > successful, and it's capabilities do not appear to be diminishing, you give upS > > on it because it's time to move on?  If you have a tool, say a hammer, and it'sbR > > every bit as good at driving nails as when you first bought it, you give it up@ > > because it's time to move on?  That's usually called stupid. > J > I don't think hammers stop working one day and then you find that hammer8 > support is either very expensive or very hard to find. > O > Let's say I want to build a house.  I'm very comfortable with my blue hammer.nS > But all of the cool new nails on the market can only be driven with a red hammer,gU > what do I do?  Do I stick in the past until there are no more vendors selling nailse > ' > that can be driven with blue hammers?h > N > The red hammers might not necessarily be better but if more people are usingP > red hammers, the odds are good that the industry wil not give up on supporting > the red hammer market. > = > > It's almost as bad as the people waiting for NT to becomer* > > secure/robust/reliable/name-your-wait. > H > Oh, I agree 100%.  NT is definitely not the little brother of VMS thatE > everyone predicted it would be.  Helen Custer's book on NT makes ittC > sound like VMS was ported to Intel and then improved.  Real world G > experience shows that NT is closer to Windows 3.1 than anything else.n > I > > > We are seeing fewer and fewer vendors who are willing to keep their  > > > software updated on VMS. > >TP > > Well, if you accept such treatment, then they will put you at the end of the	 > > list.0 > O > I don't think it is up to us to "accept" it or not.  We have to take what thecJ > market gives us.  God, I'd love to be able to order a Z28 just like theyD > made 'em in 1969.  But it ain't gonna happen.  The world moved on.J > If you didn't like the migration to fuel injection and electronic engine! > controls, then you get to walk.n > I > As customers, we don't have enough pull to force vendors to support VMSa. > if *they* don't see it as a viable platform. > T > > Tell Larry he's going to lose significant business, and that you're NOT going toN > > move to another platform in order to use his products.  Watch Larry changeR > > course rather quickly.  The problem here is the VMS people using Oracle.  TheyR > > wait around for crumbs instead of letting Larry know that they will be looking3 > > for another database, and not another platform.c > O > I think that Larry has probably thought about these things while counting hiscR > billions and billions of dollars.  Somewhere, a beancounter or six, has compiledR > a spreadsheet that says "If we stop giving a rats ass about Oracle on VMS, we'llJ > lose less business than it will cost to continue porting Oracle to VMS." > L > One of the reasons we are leaning toward Solaris is that Oracle has a good > relationshipS > with Sun.  If we're going to continue to lean heavily on Oracle, then we're going40 > to move to an OS that Uncle Larry approves of. > B > We're not going to move to another database just to stay on VMS. > N > > > I went to an Oracle DBA class about a year ago and of the 30 students inF > > > the room, I was the only one who was working with Oracle on VMS.K > > > Half the people in the room didn't even know what VMS was.   A few ofiD > > > the folks who *did* know what VMS was just said "VMS is dead". > >o5 > > Brainwashed zombies and MS brainwashed beginners.. > O > No, all of them were experienced in Solaris.  Some of them quite experienced.s > R > > > Agreed.  My years of managing VMS systems have given me a great appreciationR > > > for the technology.  And it gives me a point of reference when I struggle to
 > > > makeD > > > Windows NT servers perform the simplest task and they blow up. > > S > > And this is the direction your CIO thinks you should go?  Better have him get as' > > CAT scan, might have a brain tumor.c > N > No, I didn't say we're going from VMS to NT.  We're moving our core businessI > apps from VMS to Solaris.  I used the NT example to show that I learnedmM > something from working with VMS.  "This is a real operating system.....thise > one over here is not." > R > > One thing I really dislike is an employee who takes his employer's money, paidN > > by the employer in good faith, and then if the choice is doing the job, or8 > > enhancing one's career, the employer gets the shaft. > U > I don't know if that's a shot directed at me but I want to address it.  My employert > Q > doesn't want any of us to stay in technology that's behind the times.  In orderoO > to keep people interested in their jobs, folks want to work with the cool neweH > stuff.  If you don't give them a chance to work with new technologies,Q > they'll jump ship and go work somewhere that will let them play with the stuff.a > O > As far as "doing the job", part of my job is to *not* build systems that will P > be difficult or expensive to support.  I need to be mindful of what the marketM > is favoring and how difficult it would be to find someone to support what Iz  > built if I got hit by a truck. > L > > Since you've already made up your mind, and pronounced VMS dead, this isS > > probably a better choice for you.  Doesn't make you right, and doesn't make VMS_	 > > dead.t > T > I didn't decide that VMS is dead.  This is the information that I've gathered fromI > vendors (see Oracle example), other shops (how few VMS ads I see in the $ > paper anymore) and the trade rags. > D > > > When it comes down to it, what will keep my Viper full of gas? > >- > > OPEC >  > Ha ha ha!e > Q > I was thinking more along the line of "which OSes and/or platforms on my resume-# > will keep the Viper full of gas?"5 > U > Do you think that most people going after their MCSE are doing it because they wants > toT > learn more about Microsoft products?  No.  They want to be able to put it on their	 > resume.T >  > -Scott  D Scott, I can only relay my personal experience.  My shop was lookingA into migrating to NT and /or Unix 5 years ago. They are no longer F considering such moves. I'll list only one example of why so you don't  have to suffer through my novel.  G I work for a major midwestern oil refinery.  Our sister plant installediD a new LIMS (Laboratory Information Management System) at their plantD (Oracle backend on HP-UX). The company pushed us very hard to do theG same but after much anguish and gnashing of teeth they let us choose ann? OpenVMS solution (Oracle backend on OpenVMS). The results speakmH volumes.  Our OpenVMS solution was up and in production in 6 months at aG cost of $500K.  As for our sister plant, after 3 years and $2.5 millionrH later they are still not happy with their HP-UX system and there is talk1 that it may be scrapped.  Management has noticed.    Lessons learned ?e  ! 1. OpenVMS is not more expensive.6 2. OpenVMS is more reliable./ 3. Performance is better than the HP-UX system.     G My employer is no longer considering the replacement of OpenVMS systemsn0 and we are now adding more OpenVMS in our plant.   --   Keith Browni kbrown780@isd.neta   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 00:15:39 -0400n* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>$ Subject: Re: To VMS From SCO/Solaris- Message-ID: <39C2F3EB.707C4FAD@tsoft-inc.com>r   Bill Todd wrote: > 7 > David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messagec) > news:39C293E2.39B740EF@tsoft-inc.com...o > > David Mathog wrote:d > > >rB > > > In article <39C1C26C.76EC2C62@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble > <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > > >i; > > > >My point is, VMS is NOT dead, and is NOT going away.t > M > Absolutely true, in both respects.  But neither is VMS thriving:  it's onlyi: > holding its own, in an industry expanding all around it.  ; Well, true is true, we're not currently playing horseshoes.e  M > > > That depends entirely upon which market you're discussing.  VMS for allcJ > > > intents and purposes is dead in academia as well as most science andN > > > engineering related markets (and Kerry - citing the rare exceptions does3 > > > not invalidate the rule).  It's dead because:p > >v > > Forget specific markets. > M > Probably not that good an idea - but one Compaq seems to subscribe to, withfM > its 'targeted market' approach that makes it pretty obvious what markets itnJ > believes are important for VMS (and by omission what markets it believes
 > aren't). > 4 >   VMS, considering ALL markets, is turning around. > G > Depends on what the meaning of 'turning around' is:  seems more to beaJ > holding steady; if there's been an up-tick it's not one worth mentioningE > save to indicate it's not actively moving in the *other* direction.   4 As you're well aware, it could be quite a bit worse.  $ > > >   no new systems are going in,L > > >   software for such markets is essentially unavailable from commercial	 > vendorsbF > > >   academic (free) software is increasingly Unix centric and more > difficult to porthL > > >   academic (free) software is increasing distributed as binaries - and > theg4 > > >      people doing that never have VMS systems.M > > >   VMS performance on these sorts of applications is typically inferior,  > by/ > > >      huge factors, to that of other OS's.  > > >yN > > > As far as I can see the only VMS growth that's evident is in data centerM > > > environments, where the calculations involve dollars and cents, not DNAoN > > > bases or electron densities.  Which is why the newbies are coming out of! > > > places like Morgan Stanley.n > > >eE > > > >Stomping on any 'self fulfilling prophesies' may help keep the  > directions > > > >positive. > M > There's nothing wrong with being a cheerleader, as long as you don't try topH > present your viewpoint as objective rather than decidedly biased.  ButE > you're trying to have it both ways, and deserve to be called on it.a  M On this one, yes, cheerleading.  I won't say 'guilty', I'll say furthering myv own interests.  ( > > > That's not our job, it's Compaq's. > L > My sentiments exactly.  And not only is it Compaq's job, but Compaq is theK > *only* entity in a position to dispel the impression that VMS is stagnanteM > (at best) and therefore a dubious star to hitch one's wagon to.  And CompaqsJ > is *still* doing nothing significant (i.e., committing real money to the > job) in that area.  N Yes, Compaq's job, and Compaq's rewards, should there be any.  No rule against helping.  " > > Can you defend that statement? > >  > > Upon what do you base it?e > > M > > If someone outside Compaq has any type of vested interest in VMS, then inu > theoC > > interest of furthuring their own concerns, it may be their job.f > >hF > > VMS goes away.  My software doesn't have a home.  I don't make the
 > mortgage6 > > payment, I don't have a home.  Maybe it is my job. > K > Could well be.  But you're probably the exception rather than the rule intL > this regard, even in comp.os.vms:  most people here seem to *use* VMS, not$ > sell products that depend upon it. > G > So you really need to decide whether you're going to be a cheerleader M > singing the Compaq corporate VMS song or an independent, objective voice offN > reason.  Enthusiasm's fine when there's something substantive to justify it;H > otherwise, it verges upon irresponsible:  the decisions VMS users makeN > affect their jobs and their lives, and encouraging them to stick with VMS isI > not the best advice under all circumstances, even if it might have some I > beneficial effect on VMS's overall viability (which is far from clear).*  I I'm not totally a tape drive yet.  No reason I cannot do both.  If enough0F decisions are to stick with VMS, and because of this VMS thrives, thenN encouraging people to stick with VMS is neither irresponsible or wrong.  Don't? forget, self fulfilling prophesies can work in both directions.0  * Nice to hear from you Bill, where ya been?   Dave   -- t4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 00:18:38 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>$ Subject: Re: To VMS From SCO/Solaris- Message-ID: <39C2F49E.B8B87F68@tsoft-inc.com>    Keith Brown wrote: > F > Scott, I can only relay my personal experience.  My shop was lookingC > into migrating to NT and /or Unix 5 years ago. They are no longeriH > considering such moves. I'll list only one example of why so you don't" > have to suffer through my novel. > I > I work for a major midwestern oil refinery.  Our sister plant installedaF > a new LIMS (Laboratory Information Management System) at their plantF > (Oracle backend on HP-UX). The company pushed us very hard to do theI > same but after much anguish and gnashing of teeth they let us choose anbA > OpenVMS solution (Oracle backend on OpenVMS). The results speak J > volumes.  Our OpenVMS solution was up and in production in 6 months at aI > cost of $500K.  As for our sister plant, after 3 years and $2.5 millionoJ > later they are still not happy with their HP-UX system and there is talk3 > that it may be scrapped.  Management has noticed.( >  > Lessons learned ?i > # > 1. OpenVMS is not more expensive.  > 2. OpenVMS is more reliable.1 > 3. Performance is better than the HP-UX system.r > I > My employer is no longer considering the replacement of OpenVMS systemso2 > and we are now adding more OpenVMS in our plant. >  > --
 > Keith Browne > kbrown780@isd.net   O Maybe you and several of your associates should be 'loaned' to the sister planta for a while.   Dave   -- h4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 01:39:23 -0400t' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> $ Subject: Re: To VMS From SCO/Solaris( Message-ID: <8pv0rk$d89$1@pyrite.mv.net>  5 David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message ' news:39C2F3EB.707C4FAD@tsoft-inc.com...e   ...*  , > Nice to hear from you Bill, where ya been?  I Up to my ears in something productive (wish I could say that the previousa half-year had been).   - bill   >g > Dave >g > --6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04506 > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596@ > DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com8 > T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:54:01 +0000 - From: ezzaoudi med <m.ezzaoudi@digitem.co.ma>t Subject: VAX VMS TO ALPHAd- Message-ID: <39C26238.5A0E26C4@digitem.co.ma>    HiE I have a MV3100-80 with VMS 7.1 , Cobol 5.1-10 and Pathworks Advancedg Server. ! I want to migrate to  Alpha DS20.e  ? 1- My Executable cobol programs can they run without problems ?r@ 2- Have I to recompil my sources programs for generating the new     executables programs ? 3- Pathworks Advanced Server :F     Can I download my users account base ( and rights) from the vax to the Alpha ?i   Yourst   ------------------------------   Date: 15 Sep 2000 19:26:00 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: VAX VMS TO ALPHA 6 Message-ID: <8ptt48$cpj$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  ] In article <39C26238.5A0E26C4@digitem.co.ma>, ezzaoudi med <m.ezzaoudi@digitem.co.ma> writes: B :...a MV3100-80 with VMS 7.1 , Cobol 5.1-10 and Pathworks Advanced# :Server.... migrate to  Alpha DS20.l  J   There is some documentation on this in the OpenVMS manual set, and Andy K   Goldstein and I will be presenting a (technical) clinic on compatibility  )   and on migration at the CETS2000 event.   @ :1- My Executable cobol programs can they run without problems ?  E   Nope.  VAX and Alpha systems have very similar programming APIs and E   command sets and DCL and tools and such, but the VAX and the Alpha u,   instruction sets are completely different.  F   (I would not generally consider nor recommend the use of DECmigrate    here.)  A :2- Have I to recompil my sources programs for generating the newi :    executables programs ?      Yes.   :3- Pathworks Advanced Server :iG :    Can I download my users account base ( and rights) from the vax toe :the Alpha ?  >   This component is not related to the use of Advanced Server.     Short answer: Yes.  C   Easiest approach involves clustering the two systems together forsC   the duration of the migration.  And yes, you can share SYSUAF and C   RIGHTSLIST and the dozen-or-so other files that comprise the corefA   of the local system configuration.  (See SYLOGICALS.TEMPLATE one,   V7.2 and later for a list of these files.)  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:56:34 -0500s) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net>g Subject: Re: VAX VMS TO ALPHAo/ Message-ID: <ss5327j5h3t105@corp.supernews.com>g  4 "Hoff Hoffman" <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote<  in message news:8ptt48$cpj$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com... >e/ > In article <39C26238.5A0E26C4@digitem.co.ma>,d1 > ezzaoudi med <m.ezzaoudi#digitem.co.ma> writes:rD > :...a MV3100-80 with VMS 7.1 , Cobol 5.1-10 and Pathworks Advanced% > :Server.... migrate to  Alpha DS20.e   <snip>  "  > :3- Pathworks Advanced Server :I > :    Can I download my users account base ( and rights) from the vax to  > :the Alpha ? >d@ >   This component is not related to the use of Advanced Server. >  >   Short answer: Yes.   Longer answer:  L When you install Advanced Server on the new DS20, make sure that you install: it as a "BACKUP" domain controller to the existing domain.  H Be careful there because it defaults to being a primary, and if you missK this step, it is a not a fun procedure to recover.  You will not lose data,y" it just is a mistake best avoided.  L The Advanced Server when correctly installed while the old system is runningI will automatically download it's user account base to the new system.  Be*H sure to promote the new system to primary before you remove the old one.   -Johnn wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:16:08 -0700s. From: "F. Atman" <fatman@nospam.despammed.com>B Subject: Re: WAY OT: Ballistic (was Re: Halon dump - a data point)4 Message-ID: <39C29FA8.4DE69433@nospam.despammed.com>   AT: 8 http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=ballistic you get:          1. K               a.Of or relating to the study of the dynamics of projectiles.cO               b.Of or relating to the study of the internal action of firearms.lI          2.Of or relating to projectiles, their motion, or their effects.     F > Question: Does ANYone out there have a dictionary (English language)J > wherein the definition of the word "ballistic" does not CONTAIN the word > "ballistic"? >  > -- > David J. DachteraI > dba DJE Systemsn > http://www.djesys.com/ >l< > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/m > H > This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings > is to be expected. >aB > Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression. >rH > However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are > strongly discouraged.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 20:17:20 GMT * From: Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com>: Subject: Where are SYS$SYSTOP, SYS$SYSROOT, etc., defined?) Message-ID: <8pu03p$kkd$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   F Just curious. I'd like to know what part of the boot process (and whatD program(s)) all the "core" SYS$* system logical names are defined in (by).   4 In particular, I'm asking about the following LNM's:  ? SYS$DISK, SYS$SYSTOP, SYS$SYSDEVICE, SYS$SPECIFIC, SYS$SYSROOT, # SYS$COMMON, SYS$SYSTEM, SYS$MANAGERu   TIA    -- Disclaimer: JASQ Alan E. Feldmanh alan48  &-)n dellnet.com     & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 21:34:51 GMTh= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)s> Subject: Re: Where are SYS$SYSTOP, SYS$SYSROOT, etc., defined?0 Message-ID: <009F02C3.B70F9B23@SendSpamHere.ORG>  V In article <8pu03p$kkd$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com> writes:G >Just curious. I'd like to know what part of the boot process (and whathE >program(s)) all the "core" SYS$* system logical names are defined in  >(by). >i5 >In particular, I'm asking about the following LNM's:i >e@ >SYS$DISK, SYS$SYSTOP, SYS$SYSDEVICE, SYS$SPECIFIC, SYS$SYSROOT,$ >SYS$COMMON, SYS$SYSTEM, SYS$MANAGER >  >TIA >c >--e >Disclaimer: JASQu >Alan E. Feldman >alan48  &-) >dellnet.com >l >e' >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/h >Before you buy.  2 SYS$DISK .............. first SWAPPER then SYSINIT2 SYS$SYSDEVICE ......... first SWAPPER then SYSINIT SYS$COMMON ............ SYSINITv SYS$SYSROOT ........... SYSINITu SYS$SYSTEM ............ SYSINITn SYS$SYSTOP ............ SYSINITo SYS$MANAGER ........... STARTUP  SYS$SPECIFIC .......... STARTUP    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMr            eO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.518 ************************ndors (see Oracle example), other shops (how few VMS ads I see in the $ > paper anymore) and the trade rags. > D > > > When it comes down to it, what'W^_V"d
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