1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 20 Sep 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 527       Contents:* Authorize and error message output channel. Re: Authorize and error message output channel. Re: Authorize and error message output channel: Re: BUGCHECK; PROCGONE, process not in system --> SHUTDOWN Re: CETS2000: Buses? Re: CETS2000: Buses? Re: CETS2000: Buses? Re: CETS2000: Buses?( CETS2000: Reduced price available to all COM for OpenVMS  Re: COM for OpenVMS  Compaq runs adds Re: Compaq runs adds Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo  re: Compaq VMS promo (education)  re: Compaq VMS promo (education)  Re: Compaq VMS promo (education) DAT from VAX to Alpha  Re: DAT from VAX to Alpha  Re: DAT from VAX to Alpha  Re: DAT from VAX to Alpha  Re: DAT from VAX to Alpha  Duplex Printing / Re: FILESERV@WKU: Updated VNCviewer for OpenVMS / Re: FILESERV@WKU: Updated VNCviewer for OpenVMS / Re: FILESERV@WKU: Updated VNCviewer for OpenVMS 2 Re: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)2 Re: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)2 Re: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)2 Re: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)2 RE: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)2 RE: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)2 RE: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)2 RE: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)% HELP! Stack Underflow / C++ / pthread ) Re: HELP! Stack Underflow / C++ / pthread  Re: HSZ50 in Hobbyist Cluster  Re: HSZ50 in Hobbyist Cluster ' RE: LIB$FIND_FILE exclude method wanted ' Re: LIB$FIND_FILE exclude method wanted ' Re: LIB$FIND_FILE exclude method wanted C Re: Microsoft SQL Server on Windows NT: OpenVMS tcp/ip connectivity C Re: Microsoft SQL Server on Windows NT: OpenVMS tcp/ip connectivity C Re: Microsoft SQL Server on Windows NT: OpenVMS tcp/ip connectivity  Re: Middleware for RMS% Re: No more SYSDUMP.DMP? No more NTP?  NTP with UCX 4.2 Re: OpenVMS  OpenVMS + Education . Re: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo). Re: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo). Re: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo). Re: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo) Re: PERL/UNZIP Problem5 Re: Problems with the OpenVms web-based documentation 5 Re: Problems with the OpenVms web-based documentation 5 Re: Problems with the OpenVms web-based documentation 5 Re: Problems with the OpenVms web-based documentation C Re: Problems with the OpenVms web-based documentation (keyboards:-) C Re: Problems with the OpenVms web-based documentation (keyboards:-) ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist  Re: Telnet configuration Re: Telnet configuration Re: Telnet configuration Re: Telnet configuration Re: Telnet configuration TP_SERVER & DECnet OSI Re: TP_SERVER & DECnet OSI Re: TP_SERVER & DECnet OSI Re: TP_SERVER & DECnet OSI- traceroute no more in TCPIP 5.0A / VMS 7.2-1? 1 Re: traceroute no more in TCPIP 5.0A / VMS 7.2-1? 1 Re: traceroute no more in TCPIP 5.0A / VMS 7.2-1? 1 RE: traceroute no more in TCPIP 5.0A / VMS 7.2-1? 1 Re: traceroute no more in TCPIP 5.0A / VMS 7.2-1?  VAX -> ALP FORTRAN Problem Re: VAX -> ALP FORTRAN Problem Re: VAX -> ALP FORTRAN Problem VAX VMS TO ALPHA# Re: what path does clustering use??  Re: Why are these files open?  Re: Why are these files open?  Re: Why are these files open?  Re: Why are these files open?  Re: [JAVA] Adobe Acrobat Viewer  Re: [JAVA] Adobe Acrobat Viewer   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:41:33 +0100 - From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> 3 Subject: Authorize and error message output channel ( Message-ID: <39C8CC9D.CEFB465@bbc.co.uk>   Hi  C I discovered a curious "feature" of authorize while making a script < that needed to supress some warning messages from AUTHORIZE.   From the help (VMS 7.1 AXP)    UAF> help show   SHOW  =      Displays reports for selected UAF records on the current       SYS$OUTPUT device.         Format           SHOW  user-spec   However, consider this:    $ define/user sys$output nl:
 $ reca uaf $ uaf sh [400,43240], %UAF-W-BADSPC, no user matches specification $ define/user sys$error nl:  $ uaf sh [400,43240], %UAF-W-BADSPC, no user matches specification $ define/user sys$error nl:  $ define/user sys$output nl: $ uaf sh [400,43240]E $                                    ! Note, no warning message here.   ? So, the error message is only supressed when BOTH sys$error and 
 sys$outputA are redirected in user mode. How can this be? I thought they were  separate
 I/O channels?      --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:55:59 GMT & From: "Lee Gillie" <Lee@NOSPAModp.com>7 Subject: Re: Authorize and error message output channel 9 Message-ID: <3e4y5.272$Ok4.14023@sea-read.news.verio.net>   B These process permanent files are one and the same if they are the; same destination, and become separate if they are different B destinations.  Maybe not what you are looking for, it but can makeA other things "handy".  This is "VMS", not a feature of authorize.  --F ______________________________________________________________________F Lee Gillie, CCP                                Remove NOSPAM to E-MailF Online Data Processing, Inc. - 3501 N. Haven -  Spokane, WA 99207-8500  : "Tim Llewellyn" <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> wrote in message" news:39C8CC9D.CEFB465@bbc.co.uk... > Hi > E > I discovered a curious "feature" of authorize while making a script > > that needed to supress some warning messages from AUTHORIZE. >  > From the help (VMS 7.1 AXP)  >  > UAF> help show >  > SHOW > ? >      Displays reports for selected UAF records on the current  >      SYS$OUTPUT device.  > 
 >      Format  >  >        SHOW  user-spec >  > However, consider this:  >  > $ define/user sys$output nl: > $ reca uaf > $ uaf sh [400,43240]. > %UAF-W-BADSPC, no user matches specification > $ define/user sys$error nl:  > $ uaf sh [400,43240]. > %UAF-W-BADSPC, no user matches specification > $ define/user sys$error nl:  > $ define/user sys$output nl: > $ uaf sh [400,43240]G > $                                    ! Note, no warning message here.  > A > So, the error message is only supressed when BOTH sys$error and  > sys$outputC > are redirected in user mode. How can this be? I thought they were 
 > separate > I/O channels?  >  >  > --8 > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project2 > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.C > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk  > C > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  > MedAS or the BBC.  >  >    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Sep 2000 16:47:17 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)7 Subject: Re: Authorize and error message output channel 6 Message-ID: <8qapml$61c$3@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  b In article <3e4y5.272$Ok4.14023@sea-read.news.verio.net>, "Lee Gillie" <Lee@NOSPAModp.com> writes:C :These process permanent files are one and the same if they are the < :same destination, and become separate if they are differentC :destinations.  Maybe not what you are looking for, it but can make B :other things "handy".  This is "VMS", not a feature of authorize.  9   Correct.  Long-standing and expected OpenVMS behaviour.   ;   Please see the IDSM description of $putmsg, among others.   @   I've passed along email to the tech writer handling the system'   service manual, asking for an update.   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:25:46 +0200 . From: Bilgihan Bircan <Bilgihan.Bircan@ca.com>C Subject: Re: BUGCHECK; PROCGONE, process not in system --> SHUTDOWN & Message-ID: <39C8BADA.B5576BAC@ca.com>   Hi,   8 YES, image backup to tape and back to the disk cured it!  F Thanks to everyone who has responded to me, especially with this hint.  B Unfortunately, I'm not able to see all name, who give me the rightJ hint as our news server does not show any more these messages (too old!!!)   T h a n k s ...    Bilgihan   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2000 09:31:10 -05001 From: kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org.mars (Bob Kaplow)  Subject: Re: CETS2000: Buses? + Message-ID: <GiDX1C6PGs+m@eisner.decus.org>   J Some of you may have heard that there is currently a bus strike in LA. TheJ city's plans to use charter busses to replace some bus routes was met withJ the response that those drivers would honor the picket lines. Does any one4 know if this will affect the shuttle buses for CETS?  K The hotel closest to the convention center FUBARed my reservation, so I'm a * long way off and dependent on those buses.   	Bob Kaplow	  J jeshuel@earthlink.net postmaster@127.0.0.1 webmaster@global-prosperity.comJ paul@still.zzn.com newyorker@cartoonbank.exactis.com Blindfury1010@aol.comE strategies1221f@hotmail.com ahogan3@ford.com brenda@mail.anet-chi.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:06:44 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)  Subject: Re: CETS2000: Buses? 0 Message-ID: <009F066A.9006F91C@SendSpamHere.ORG>  _ In article <GiDX1C6PGs+m@eisner.decus.org>, kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) writes: K >Some of you may have heard that there is currently a bus strike in LA. The K >city's plans to use charter busses to replace some bus routes was met with K >the response that those drivers would honor the picket lines. Does any one 5 >know if this will affect the shuttle buses for CETS?  > L >The hotel closest to the convention center FUBARed my reservation, so I'm a+ >long way off and dependent on those buses.   I I saw a similar news report the night before last and was concerned about I the shuttles from the airports to the hotels.  Also, during Providence, I H stayed at the Marriott which was quite some distance from the conventionI center.  The bus frequency was way too low (and at times non-existent) to I be convenient.  I normally wouldn't have minded the walk but I had devel- I oped a DVT (blood clot) in my leg and the moderate walk to the convention H center aggrivated the situation to the point where it was rather unbear-I able to spend the rest of the day at the symposium comfortably.  Symposia J in the past didn't attract the greatest numbers of folks with disabilitiesJ but they were present.  I do hope that some sort of alternative exists for. such folks this event if the strike continues.  I Also, the registration page had a button to select special dietary needs. H I checked it.  What is the symposium formerly known as DECUS doing about
 that item?   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 09:24:39 -0400 & From: "Jeff Killeen" <Jeff@Killeen.cc> Subject: Re: CETS2000: Buses? 2 Message-ID: <8qadqu$194$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>  / Hi Brian - please send me your Email address...    --     Jeff Killeen - www.Killeen.cc E ===================================================================== J "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" <system@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote in message* news:009F066A.9006F91C@SendSpamHere.ORG...L > In article <GiDX1C6PGs+m@eisner.decus.org>, kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) writes:I > >Some of you may have heard that there is currently a bus strike in LA.  The H > >city's plans to use charter busses to replace some bus routes was met withI > >the response that those drivers would honor the picket lines. Does any  one 7 > >know if this will affect the shuttle buses for CETS?  > > L > >The hotel closest to the convention center FUBARed my reservation, so I'm a - > >long way off and dependent on those buses.  > K > I saw a similar news report the night before last and was concerned about K > the shuttles from the airports to the hotels.  Also, during Providence, I J > stayed at the Marriott which was quite some distance from the conventionK > center.  The bus frequency was way too low (and at times non-existent) to K > be convenient.  I normally wouldn't have minded the walk but I had devel- K > oped a DVT (blood clot) in my leg and the moderate walk to the convention J > center aggrivated the situation to the point where it was rather unbear-K > able to spend the rest of the day at the symposium comfortably.  Symposia L > in the past didn't attract the greatest numbers of folks with disabilitiesL > but they were present.  I do hope that some sort of alternative exists for0 > such folks this event if the strike continues. > K > Also, the registration page had a button to select special dietary needs. J > I checked it.  What is the symposium formerly known as DECUS doing about > that item? >  > --4 > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001 VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM > K > city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after  them.    ------------------------------   Date: 20 SEP 2000 14:46:52 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) Subject: Re: CETS2000: Buses? 6 Message-ID: <20SEP00.14465265@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  U In a previous article, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) wrote: a ->In article <GiDX1C6PGs+m@eisner.decus.org>, kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) writes: M ->>Some of you may have heard that there is currently a bus strike in LA. The M ->>city's plans to use charter busses to replace some bus routes was met with M ->>the response that those drivers would honor the picket lines. Does any one 7 ->>know if this will affect the shuttle buses for CETS?   F On the MTA's web page (http://www.mta.net) it says the municipal busesB (city) are still running normally. The MTA strike only affects theE county transit system. That's still going to put a giant crimp in the H ability to get anywhere via public transport. The loss of the red, green% and blue rail lines is going to hurt.   @ Their "Trip planner" is pretty cool. see: http://207.155.61.166/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 06:22:25 -0400 7 From: "Information CETS2000" <Information@CETS2000.com> 1 Subject: CETS2000: Reduced price available to all 3 Message-ID: <8qa358$rt5$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>    Dear Fellow IT professional:  @ This will be the final letter about CETS-2000.  The good news is? there will be well over 4,000 experienced IT Professionals like = yourself attending the Compaq Enterprise Technology Symposium > 2000.  That 4,000 plus number is just for the Symposium itself> and many more in addition will be attending the pre-conference> Seminar program and the Tradeshow.  Not since the early 1990s: has a DECUS sponsored Symposium drawn this many attendees.  > While we achieved our attendance goals we know we were late in? getting the program information out to you.  For this reason we ? have extended the early bird discount for all registrations and = everyone will be able to register at the $1395 reduced price. 1 The complete program details are now available at @ www.conferenceregistration.com/sessions/default . You can easily4 review the sessions by Topic, by Track, and by Time.  > Dont forget to sign up for a Hands-On Interactive Workshop at9 www.conferenceregistration.com/websched.htm once you have @ registered.  To sign up for a workshop you must know the day and= time of the workshop before entering the scheduler.  You must - also be already registered for the Symposium.   < For questions about CETS-2000 visit www.CETS2000.com or send@ email to Information@CETS2000.com. When registering as DECUS for? this conference at www.CETS2000.com please use RSVP code D5331.    Kristi Browder* U.S. DECUS Executive Sponsor for CETS-2000 Kristi.Browder@CETS2000.comr  / Clay Denton (See you in Anaheim September 2001) * U.S. DECUS Executive Sponsor for CETS-2001 Clay.Denton@CETS2001.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 07:53:49 -0400c0 From: Jim Jennis <jjennis@discovery.fuentez.com> Subject: COM for OpenVMSD Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000920075349.009c3950@discovery.fuentez.com>   Hi VMS Colleagues,  J We do a lot of cross-platform component development where VMS is involved.  J I have heard that OpenVMS 7.2 supports M$ COM protocol, however, in pokingK around the operating system, I am not sure if the COM API's are part of theXJ standard OpenVMS 7.2 distribution, or is it a layered product and separate kit I have to buy from Compaq?   TIA for your advice/help!e   Regards,   Jima8 --------------------------------------------------------7 FSC - Building Better Information Technology Solutions-a7       from the Production Floor to the Customer's Door. 8 --------------------------------------------------------5 Jim Jennis, Technical Director for Commercial SystemsE Fuentez Systems Concepts, Inc. 1 Discovery Place, Suite 2 Martinsburg, WV. 25401 USA   # Phone: +001 (304) 263-0163 ext. 235s Fax:   +001 (304) 263-0702% Email: jjennis@discovery.fuentez.com          jhjennis@shentel.net & WEB: http://www.discovery.fuentez.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2000 14:23:25 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: COM for OpenVMS( Message-ID: <39c8ac3d@news.kapsch.co.at>  w In article <3.0.5.32.20000920075349.009c3950@discovery.fuentez.com>, Jim Jennis <jjennis@discovery.fuentez.com> writes: K >I have heard that OpenVMS 7.2 supports M$ COM protocol, however, in poking L >around the operating system, I am not sure if the COM API's are part of theK >standard OpenVMS 7.2 distribution, or is it a layered product and separate  >kit I have to buy from Compaq?M  I [D]COM is not part of VMS V7.2, but DCOM is part of the VMS distribution.(M You have to install it separately. DCOM on the V7.2 CD  is no longer current. G You can download the most current version of DCOM from the VMS website.   6 	http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvms/products/dcom/  , which is DCOM V1.1B for OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1   --  < Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888 < FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netF <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2000 09:25:18 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler) Subject: Compaq runs adds + Message-ID: <CJISHZ+bKI0t@eisner.decus.org>   s In article <B7Vx5.83090$NH2.663884@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:V > F > Incidentally, sources close to Charlie Matco indicate that CPQ's newK > marketing campaign will launch on Monday next. Scrabble players, rejoice:/ > you get your letter "Q" back!o  F They just ran a full page add touting their win of DOD's supercomputer> contract with a Tru64 TruCluster containing 12,000 Alpha CPUs.  % Now if they could just advertise VMS.   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences CorporationA= Hubble Space Telescope Payload  | Federal Sector, Civil Group-E  Flight Software Team           | please remove ".aspm" when replyinge   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:06:24 +0100c- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>t Subject: Re: Compaq runs addsC) Message-ID: <39C8B650.35965651@bbc.co.uk>d   Bob Koehler wrote:  u > In article <B7Vx5.83090$NH2.663884@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:1 > > H > > Incidentally, sources close to Charlie Matco indicate that CPQ's newM > > marketing campaign will launch on Monday next. Scrabble players, rejoice:e! > > you get your letter "Q" back!  > H > They just ran a full page add touting their win of DOD's supercomputer@ > contract with a Tru64 TruCluster containing 12,000 Alpha CPUs. > ' > Now if they could just advertise VMS.t  B I think we are all in a wait and see mode. Better treatment of VMS4 is something that is "expected" in the new campaign.   Regards      --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukr  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofu MedAS or the BBC.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 01:52:10 -0400b* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promo - Message-ID: <39C8508A.6E4EA5A2@tsoft-inc.com>r   Bill Todd wrote: > 7 > David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messageM) > news:39C6DB2B.D2BF83AC@tsoft-inc.com...  >  > ...: > M > > So, if you were in charge now, how would you get these reluctant softwarer > > vendors to consider VMS? > G > Spend some serious money on VMS to demonstrate unmistakable corporatenK > commitment to a future those vendors might have an interest in being partoH > of.  After so many years of lost opportunities and unmet expectations, > nothing else will do the job.   P Tell me something new.  We've been over the above, and I agree with you.  What'sK missing are 2 parts of the puzzle.  Where and how to spend the money?  WhatsN guarantees are there that anything will change, at least enough to justify the	 spending?c  N I really hated to state the second question.  There are never guarantees.  TheM only valid thing is to spend the money on things worth doing, which should bep8 reward enough.  That still takes us back to question #1.  / Some things, worthwhile things, are being done.H  M As for SAP, right now I doubt there's much that would entice them, short of aSM multi-billion dollar bribe.  That might make their financial situation look aeO bit better.  However, just investing the money in treasury notes would probablyhF show a much greater return than any sales gained by having SAP on VMS.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 01:58:10 -0400o* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promou- Message-ID: <39C851F2.3AC1F7B7@tsoft-inc.com>    Ian Parker wrote:w > J > In article <8q6rco$74l$1@pyrite.mv.net>, Bill Todd <billtodd@foo.mv.com> > writes > >U8 > >David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message* > >news:39C6DB2B.D2BF83AC@tsoft-inc.com... > >  > >... > >oN > >> So, if you were in charge now, how would you get these reluctant software > >> vendors to consider VMS?6 > >7H > >Spend some serious money on VMS to demonstrate unmistakable corporateL > >commitment to a future those vendors might have an interest in being partI > >of.  After so many years of lost opportunities and unmet expectations,e  > >nothing else will do the job. > >i	 > >- bille > >e > >>	 > >> Daves > >> > >> --e9 > >> David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450a9 > >> Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596uC > >> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.comV; > >> T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486  > >x > >d > H > And at the same time ensure that IT students get to use, and like, VMSJ > at college. Ensure that hardware and software is sufficiently cheap that? > at least some of them can afford to have VMS systems at home.- > G > In a few years, you'll have developers who are asking their companiesoA > for VMS development platforms rather than Solaris, Linux or NT.  > 	 > Regards. >  > Ianu  O This is a nice warm and fuzzy idea.  However, I've had people in education tell P me that free VMS systems wouldn't get VMS in front of their students, and they'dO just load Linux on the system.  So, just like the prior question, got any ideas-M on how to do this in a manner that would succeed?  I wouldn't be surprised tosO see the systems become available, if Compaq had any guarantees (damn, that word.N again) that they'd be used with VMS and students would get reasonable exposure to VMS.o   Dave   -- p4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Sep 2000 07:27:45 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promo-. Message-ID: <8q9oth$o56$1@info.service.rug.nl>  < In article <39C851F2.3AC1F7B7@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:   J > > And at the same time ensure that IT students get to use, and like, VMSL > > at college. Ensure that hardware and software is sufficiently cheap thatA > > at least some of them can afford to have VMS systems at home.n > > I > > In a few years, you'll have developers who are asking their companiesoC > > for VMS development platforms rather than Solaris, Linux or NT.c  B > This is a nice warm and fuzzy idea.  However, I've had people inF > education tell me that free VMS systems wouldn't get VMS in front of= > their students, and they'd just load Linux on the system.     E For a while, yes.  But if VMS were possible, some people would start mG doing it, and it would spread.  I bought my own VMS system rather than VI work under unix in an academic environment.  Thankfully, DECcampus makes  C software costs---including unlimited users---a non-issue.  Several nF students, colleagues etc asked me for accounts on my machine, usually H because their compilers weren't good enough.  Most of these didn't even I know what VMS was before, but liked it when they got a chance to use it. e( Of course, some folks are just VMS fans.  H Digital and VMS used to dominate academia; now, they are a rarity.  EvenB if Compaq GAVE hardware and software to academia, it would pay forD itself, since most of these folks don't stay in academia but go intoF industry.  Why did unix take over there?  Quality?  No.  Pricing?  No.H Let's face it---for most companies, software prices are peanuts comparedH to other costs, and when down time is measured in dollars, the boss willC cough up the check.  The reason is, all the college dudes were unixeF guys.  When Wintel PCs became powerful enough to handle some academic E stuff, guess what, they started making inroads into industry as well.9   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:19:47 GMTa5 From: "Larry D Bohan, Jr" <LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com>g Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promoH8 Message-ID: <6chhsssu6gu1frn0qde43gtjdgqhof6sa0@4ax.com>  2 On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 01:58:10 -0400, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:     >tP >This is a nice warm and fuzzy idea.  However, I've had people in education tellQ >me that free VMS systems wouldn't get VMS in front of their students, and they'dtP >just load Linux on the system.  So, just like the prior question, got any ideasN >on how to do this in a manner that would succeed?  I wouldn't be surprised toP >see the systems become available, if Compaq had any guarantees (damn, that wordO >again) that they'd be used with VMS and students would get reasonable exposure  >to VMS.  ) Make the VMS Doc sets freely available?     ( While the Linux HowTo's aren't too bad, 5 they don't hold a candle to the Digital documentation:? for consistency, thoroughness, and especially, correctness (!).j* (ie, does it do what the docs say it does)   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Sep 2000 15:03:54 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promoi, Message-ID: <8qajkq$141@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  [ In article <8q9oth$o56$1@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:d< >Why did unix take over there?  Quality?  No.  Pricing?  No.  F Pricing YES.  The shift in academia to Unix was clearly driven by the H superior price/performance ratios of Unix workstations over VMS machinesF throughout the the late '80s and early '90s.  At the time that switch ? started VMS had a near monopoly on scientific campus computing.t  I >Let's face it---for most companies, software prices are peanuts comparedeI >to other costs, and when down time is measured in dollars, the boss willrD >cough up the check.  The reason is, all the college dudes were unixG >guys.  When Wintel PCs became powerful enough to handle some academic eF >stuff, guess what, they started making inroads into industry as well.  L The PCs started taking over graphics applications from Unix workstations in K a serious way about 4 years ago.  Roughly the time SGI went down the tubes.iG That is not a coincidence.   The (casual) users also prefer the WindowsgD interface to the mess of different styles and odd commands on Unix. H Unfortunately it turns out that managing all those PCs is a time sink ofJ epic proportions, and we're all praying for the migration of most of thoseI apps ("back") to Linux, so that we can have the same inexpensive hardwaretI with none of the MS headaches.  (VMS systems have not been competitive inuH this particular niche since at least 1990 - they cost even more than theJ Unix boxes and the graphics performance has never been in the same league.J Well, maybe they would be if they had the really expensive graphics cards,K but that's hard to justify when you can get a whole PC for the same price!)t   Regards,     David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu.? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech tJ **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:22:40 +0200s& From: Michael Joosten <joost@c-lab.de> Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promoa$ Message-ID: <39C8D640.59E2@c-lab.de>   Hans Vlems wrote:  >  > Dave,n  N > Agreed SAP is not the only big application vendor, but how many ERP productsK > in that class do run on VMS. The only one I knew was JD Edwards. Not surel& > whether they're still on VMS or not.F > Database vendors are another important segment. How many run on VMS?M > Adabas/Natural and Oracle/Rdb and it seems to mee that the latter is trying  > to > get rid of VMS.f > 4 > Isn't that the situation called "a legacy system"?  F Depends on the definition of 'legacy system'. According to Dr. RichardD Soley (OMG), legacy from a developer's point of view is 'whatever isD already running and need to be connected to'. This means dusty COBOLA apps on IBM mainframe up to VisualBasic orgies on a NT4 server...,  F Taking another view: If legacy *operating* system means something thatF is seldomly used for new, trendy applications, than I have the feelingH that, unfortunately, VMS belongs into that. OS390 has escaped because ofC current Java and Unix personality options, which were together with G WebSphere, actively and aggressively marketed by IBM. So much, that onehE customer was keen on implementing a online broking system on a OS/390DE instead of standard UNIX boxes (hard to understand, mainframe MIPS isEG till more expensive than average UNIX MIPS, but well, as someone put in B the past discusssions, banking is apparently 'obscenely wealthy').  C So, if I look at the list of Application Servers, or even more, thee= whole area of WW services (more than just a HTTP server, more F functionality than Apache or IIS or Netscape XXX), I very seldomly seeD the name OpenVMS cited along the list of supported OS. How comes ???  F Taking into account that application servers nowadays *must* have loadF balancing features, leading to typical architectures of 10+ (lean) webD servers running Apache with/without Servlets and JSP, 5+ applicationD server machines which are supposed to be solid and should be easy toE administer, and not to forget the DB backend, which must be even moreiG solid and powerfull (big SMP boxes), I wonder why Compaq isn't activelytB trying to push OpenVMS into that area. Being the 'Old Wise Man' ofF clustering, VMS should be ideal for application servers. Probably lessG for web servers, as the common trend here is to use just cheap PCs with D NT or FreeBSD/Linux, unless rack mounting is important. But, oh yes,7 they have also to push their PC servers, oh I forgot...r    F Commenting on the skills issue: It's perfectly true that VMS is almostD not used at all in academia (in Germany at least), besides niches in' some labs (again, mostly legacy stuff).aE On the other hand, what happens if a consulting firm gets a tender toeF develop a big application server system, and let's assume the customer is already familiar with VMS? ? The consultants check the relevant products, try to align theirFE platforms with what the customers prefers, and.... Solaris, AIX or NTuB wins - because there is seldomly any overlap with OpenVMS. The appG server manufacturers (we are mostly speaking about Java stuff here) hase@ no clue about VMS and is generally happy to minimize the list ofE supported platforms (especially for those supporting a large range of-F backend connectors - this where you cannot play anymore with just someB socket stuff, but must bite the bullet and rely on vendor specificF connectivity stuff, SNA, CICS, MQS, to name a few). Keeping such a zooG of backends current with the mainstream app development (cycles of max.  2 years) is a big burden. D And because these are often young/small companies, or at least thoseH with lots of young developers, they of course do not have the experienceB to port their stuff (and maintain) it on VMS. NT yes, it's a must;8 another UNIX, ok, can't be that hard; VMS? HP MPE? yuck!  F My comments. I've to confess that I learned 13 years ago VMS (MicroVMSF 4.4) along with UNIX (Cadmus Munix V3.2), but haven't used it since 10H years anymore. I'm sympathical (sp?) with VMS, but unless VMS carves out: a good niche in the market, it's sooner or longer doomed.   > Hmm, I'm not even sure if just a single niche would be enough.G Currently, VMS seems to me be in the same range a OS/390: in use mostly)G on backend systems with old applications, DB server, TP systems and thedC like. As I said, my personal view from somebody not involved at alle anymore in VMS.   C WRT Super Balls: You VMS guys are behind... I got one at the Compaqb+ booth on JavaOne Exhibition in early June !i   -- o?  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~r@ | Michael Joosten   |       Tel.  : +49 5251 606127            |@ | C-LAB             |       Fax   : +49 5251 606065            |@ | Fuerstenalle 11   |       E-Mail: joost@c-lab.de             |@ | 33094 Paderborn   |      C-LAB is a cooperation between      |@ | Germany           |    University Paderborn & SIEMENS AG     |?  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:33:30 +0100t/ From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>-) Subject: re: Compaq VMS promo (education)46 Message-ID: <009F067F.1054C187.8@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>   > > J > > And at the same time ensure that IT students get to use, and like, VMSL > > at college. Ensure that hardware and software is sufficiently cheap thatA > > at least some of them can afford to have VMS systems at home.= > > I > > In a few years, you'll have developers who are asking their companiesnC > > for VMS development platforms rather than Solaris, Linux or NT.i > >  > > Regardse > >  > > Ianw > Q > This is a nice warm and fuzzy idea.  However, I've had people in education telleR > me that free VMS systems wouldn't get VMS in front of their students, and they'dQ > just load Linux on the system.  So, just like the prior question, got any ideasrO > on how to do this in a manner that would succeed?  I wouldn't be surprised to Q > see the systems become available, if Compaq had any guarantees (damn, that wordiP > again) that they'd be used with VMS and students would get reasonable exposure	 > to VMS.p >   < Here's how I see it, from the inside of an educational site.  ? You can divide (most of) the student exposure to computers intoyI three classes: office automation, number crunching, and explicit teachingt
 of computing.e  I *Office Automation is pretty much sewn up by Microsoft at present. I haveoM hopes that Linux plus K-office or StarOffice will be able to make big inroadst3 some time soon, but this is hardly VMS's strength.    I *Number crunching used to be a VMS stronghold, but DEC blew that a decade J or more ago. It moved, first to proprietary RISC, then to Linux, followingK the number one determinant, that of maximising crunch per buck. A secondary G consideration is code portability. The codes people want to use are nowfI pretty Unix-y, and are more likely to "make" without errors on Linux thant on proprietary unixes.  J Compaq could do much in this market, but it will have to start with makingH VMS support the unix API well enough that porting number-crunching codesL written for Linux to VMS becomes easy. Bear in mind that technical computingL people are rarely full-blown programmers, and even if they are they'd rather$ be doing science than porting code.   I Once "make linuxpackage" on VMS stands as good a chance of working on VMSeG as it does on Solaris or AIX, Compaq could get VMS back in front of thewC science students simply by making it offer equal bang per buck as arE commodity intel box running Linux. That means big hardware price cuts.J and free VMS, communications and compiler licenses, which would make senseC only as a promotion campaign as it seems unlikely to be profitable.   G NB I'm ignoring Tru64 here, which of course may be seen as unrealistic.t2 NB note IBM's various linux-related moves of late!  M *Teaching of computing divides into "industry applicable skills" and computer I science. Computer science departments in general have a bias towards unixbO and especially Linux or FreeBSD. One reason is the open source, ie you can playtM with the system. Another is that they feel that these are their babies (whichaK is true to a considerable extent). VMS would find this a very tough nut to   crack.  K "Industry applicable skills" unfortunately tends to mean Microsoft. This is O partly because that's what the students want (and they are the paying customers G at most universities). Also because the set-up cost of Intel boxes plusdI Microsoft software at university-discounted prices is least, and academiagJ is starved of cash for hardware. (In contrast, manpower is plentiful; muchJ of the overhead of running that MS stuff can be seen as education for the F students!) LInux/Unix is second, with unix-y skills like Apache, PERL,@ Java. In any case, this sort of teaching is more demand-led thanJ trend-setting. There won't be demand for (say) teaching of database skillsK on VMS, or VMS sysadmin skills, until VMS is once again widely mentioned inpK the job adverts. "Legacy" is a kiss of death as far as an informed student n
 is concerned.w   M All very sad. DEC had a strong presence in education, and well and truly blew I it. Compaq does not, and it's a hard mountain to climb, though one that IwI do feel is important. If nothing else, being seen to be selling at a lossdI into education sends a message to the rest of the world that VMS is therel for the long term.  K BTW, I've commented many times that in education, people are very receptive J to the reliability and maintainability of VMS systems, but aren't willing G (and often not *able*) to pay any kind of premium for it. For example, nG I'd love to run PW Advanced server on a VMScluster so that our network mI doesn't go down if the server does ... but Linux/Samba is real cheap and   "good enough". w   	Yours,c
 		Nigel Arnoti- 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                   h  7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Sep 2000 15:52:42 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)) Subject: re: Compaq VMS promo (education)d, Message-ID: <8qamga$141@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  h In article <009F067F.1054C187.8@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>, Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> writes:  / I agree with pretty much everything Nigel says.a  L >BTW, I've commented many times that in education, people are very receptiveK >to the reliability and maintainability of VMS systems, but aren't willing e: >(and often not *able*) to pay any kind of premium for it.  H And that sometimes causes Faustian bargains.  The migration from SGIs toI WNT boxes for scientific grahics applications being an example of this.  4J The migration was driven by the excellent graphics performance which couldJ be attained on the WNT boxes for much less than the SGI machines cost.  ItJ also made the end users more productive (easier to use everything, uniformI program interfaces, access to much more and better software, they alreadytK knew how to work on Windows, etc.).  However, for me personally it has beeneI somewhat of a disaster since I now spend FAR too much of my time coddlingaI these WNT machines.   Right now I'm praying for a hardware stereo driver wF for Linux and a few software ports, so that I can convert all of theseK machines to that OS and recover the hundreds of hours I'd otherwise have toiG spend fighting with WNT.  (And no, they can't go to W2K, as there is no E hardware stereo driver for the graphics card they contain, and there nE probably never will be!)  VMS is no option at all here since graphics = on this platform has been weak for as long as I can remember.w  E With respect to the academic market Digital pretty much shot VMS (andnH itself) in the head.  With a bazooka.  Getting off life support (really,E back out of the grave) and into a healthy state again would require auI strong commitment by Compaq, a tremendous amount of work, and a sustainedrJ long range strategy.  I'm not saying that it isn't possible, but given theI record so far of Compaq's upper management, I'd put the odds at somethingr$ like 100 to 1 against it happening.    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduC? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech tJ **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:38:56 +0100e- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>u) Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promo (education)l) Message-ID: <39C8E820.1BA5B74C@bbc.co.uk>e   David Mathog wrote:a  j > In article <009F067F.1054C187.8@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>, Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> writes: >r1 > I agree with pretty much everything Nigel says.g >uN > >BTW, I've commented many times that in education, people are very receptiveL > >to the reliability and maintainability of VMS systems, but aren't willing< > >(and often not *able*) to pay any kind of premium for it. >e  P I'd hazard that quite a few buisinesses have this philosophy too. Also, you needK one or two of those really techy people hanging around just to sort out thesJ occasional rough edge. It seems to me, non-techie PHM type people actively< hate this, and prefer an legion of "headless chicken" types.     > J > And that sometimes causes Faustian bargains.  The migration from SGIs toI > WNT boxes for scientific grahics applications being an example of this. L > The migration was driven by the excellent graphics performance which couldL > be attained on the WNT boxes for much less than the SGI machines cost.  ItL > also made the end users more productive (easier to use everything, uniformK > program interfaces, access to much more and better software, they already0M > knew how to work on Windows, etc.).  However, for me personally it has beenaK > somewhat of a disaster since I now spend FAR too much of my time coddlingo > these WNT machines.u  M Sure, especially in academia admin time is quite often not accounted for whenrX making a decision. Can't you palm off the NT stuff onto a few young postdocs and then...    4 > Right now I'm praying for a hardware stereo driver  H > for Linux and a few software ports, so that I can convert all of these  S ... get on with writing that hardware stereo driver for linux. In fact, if you wantuG it bad enough for VMS, maybe that is an option (OK I'm speaking like ans# ex-particle physicist here   :-) ).    >t  M > machines to that OS and recover the hundreds of hours I'd otherwise have toaI > spend fighting with WNT.  (And no, they can't go to W2K, as there is nou  H So, Microsoft has screwed your upgrade path royally. You are considering- deploying more Microsoft products, perchance?i   >eF > hardware stereo driver for the graphics card they contain, and thereG > probably never will be!)  VMS is no option at all here since graphicso? > on this platform has been weak for as long as I can remember.c >o  D Well, I guess "$x million to pay Compaq to develop suitable graphicsD support for VMS" doesn't go down to well on a grant application :-).  B However, they could send you on an internals course then you couldD try coding your own graphics driver for VMS. You might even get some backup here in comp.os.vms.e  E Did you try approaching Compaq though a more formal channel that thisc group about your requirements?   > G > With respect to the academic market Digital pretty much shot VMS (andaJ > itself) in the head.  With a bazooka.  Getting off life support (really,G > back out of the grave) and into a healthy state again would require aeK > strong commitment by Compaq, a tremendous amount of work, and a sustained L > long range strategy.  I'm not saying that it isn't possible, but given theK > record so far of Compaq's upper management, I'd put the odds at something % > like 100 to 1 against it happening.   B Compaq will never make money out of VMS in academia. However, whatP it may do, is actally get a few people coming out of education into industry who9 know more about VMS than "the VAX is slow and expensive".>     --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukr  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofa MedAS or the BBC.h   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:58:14 +0000t- From: ezzaoudi med <m.ezzaoudi@digitem.co.ma>l Subject: DAT from VAX to Alpha- Message-ID: <39C8D086.D86386E6@digitem.co.ma>    Hi@ Can I read a DAT tape writed on VAX VMS in my ALPHA VMS System ? Thanks   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:37:17 GMT,& From: "Lee Gillie" <Lee@NOSPAModp.com>" Subject: Re: DAT from VAX to Alpha9 Message-ID: <NQ4y5.275$Ok4.14062@sea-read.news.verio.net>   B Yes, we do it all the time.  What kind of problems are you having?   --F ______________________________________________________________________F Lee Gillie, CCP                                Remove NOSPAM to E-MailF Online Data Processing, Inc. - 3501 N. Haven -  Spokane, WA 99207-8500  : "ezzaoudi med" <m.ezzaoudi@digitem.co.ma> wrote in message' news:39C8D086.D86386E6@digitem.co.ma...  > HiB > Can I read a DAT tape writed on VAX VMS in my ALPHA VMS System ? > Thanks >n >O   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:50:11 +0100i- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> " Subject: Re: DAT from VAX to Alpha) Message-ID: <39C8DCB3.6662FBC2@bbc.co.uk>c   ezzaoudi med wrote:    > HiB > Can I read a DAT tape writed on VAX VMS in my ALPHA VMS System ? > Thanks  C Sure, there is no significant difference I have encountered in taper handling between5 VAX and alpha in the 8 years I have been using alpha.t  ( I have done this many times in the past.    --t6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukv  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofe MedAS or the BBC.e   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Sep 2000 16:55:24 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)" Subject: Re: DAT from VAX to Alpha6 Message-ID: <8qaq5s$61c$5@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  b In article <NQ4y5.275$Ok4.14062@sea-read.news.verio.net>, "Lee Gillie" <Lee@NOSPAModp.com> writes: :Yes, we do it all the time.  3   Assuming compatible DDS (DAT) drives, this works.a  & :What kind of problems are you having?  H   Yes, a very good question.  This is probably either a case where thereF   is some question around if something _will_ work, or this is a case H   where something is _not_ working and there is some desire to find out -   why and what can be done to make it work...a  ; :"ezzaoudi med" <m.ezzaoudi@digitem.co.ma> wrote in messagel( :news:39C8D086.D86386E6@digitem.co.ma...C :> Can I read a DAT tape writed on VAX VMS in my ALPHA VMS System ?   H   Please: that question is far too terse for a meaningful answer -- withJ   a terse question, you might well get a correct answer, but it might not F   be the answer to the question that you intended to ask.  In additionD   to asking a specific question, please remember to give us a littleB   background: OpenVMS version(s) and platform(s), what problem youD   are looking to solve, any error message(s) or command(s), and (in F   cases such as this) the specific DAT widget(s) involved.  This extraB   information is like an error-correcting code (ECC), it helps youE   better communicate the question so that you are more likely to get     the answer you need.  Thanks!   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2000 14:41:31 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)" Subject: Re: DAT from VAX to Alpha+ Message-ID: <0mPe3v9wbO53@eisner.decus.org>V  ] In article <39C8D086.D86386E6@digitem.co.ma>, ezzaoudi med <m.ezzaoudi@digitem.co.ma> writes:r > HiB > Can I read a DAT tape writed on VAX VMS in my ALPHA VMS System ?  A    Yes.  Is there something specific you are trying to do or someu8    problem you have encountered?  What model DAT drives?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = Hubble Space Telescope Payload  | Federal Sector, Civil Group E  Flight Software Team           | please remove ".aspm" when replyingn   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:29:38 -0700~1 From: "MacMillan, Neil (nmcm)" <nmcm@chevron.com>~ Subject: Duplex Printing@ Message-ID: <55DB1FE17906D411AD9600805F6F06163116BA@chevron.com>   Hi, D Has anyone had success printing duplex to an HP8100 using the telnet	 symbiont?s 	VAX/VMS 7.1 	UCX 4.2  Thanks in advance for your help.   -Neilp   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Sep 2000 14:39:44 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)8 Subject: Re: FILESERV@WKU: Updated VNCviewer for OpenVMS, Message-ID: <8qai7g$141@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  S In article <QsWQIvpst5H$@axp1.wku.edu>, goathunter@wku.edu (Hunter Goatley) writes: @ >VNC333R1VMS011 (VNCviewer V1.1 for OpenVMS) is now available.    G You had mentioned in an earlier post that you use VNCviewer to remotelydG access PCs.  What piece of software do you run on the PC end to achieven this?  (URL please!) l   Thanks,f   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech h   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:05:34 -0400x- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca> 8 Subject: Re: FILESERV@WKU: Updated VNCviewer for OpenVMS/ Message-ID: <sshkj1kh5asua1@corp.supernews.com>s  ? "David Mathog" <mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu> wrote in messaget& news:8qai7g$141@gap.cco.caltech.edu...D > In article <QsWQIvpst5H$@axp1.wku.edu>, goathunter@wku.edu (Hunter Goatley) writes: >...A > access PCs.  What piece of software do you run on the PC end tom achieven > this?  (URL please!)  > http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/index.html is the home page  = http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/platforms.html lists othero% platforms (HP-UX, BeOS, PalmPilot...)    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Sep 2000 16:42:41 GMT6 From: DAVISM@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (Michael T. Davis)8 Subject: Re: FILESERV@WKU: Updated VNCviewer for OpenVMS: Message-ID: <8qape1$81e$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  J In article <8qai7g$141@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:  L >In article <QsWQIvpst5H$@axp1.wku.edu>, goathunter@wku.edu (Hunter Goatley)	 > writes:t? >>VNC333R1VMS011 (VNCviewer V1.1 for OpenVMS) is now available.n > H >You had mentioned in an earlier post that you use VNCviewer to remotelyH >access PCs.  What piece of software do you run on the PC end to achieve >this?  (URL please!)r  " 	For (practically) all things VNC:  9                       http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/    >q >Thanks, >h
 >David Mathog, >mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu? >Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltechc   Mike --K              Michael T. Davis              |    Systems Specialist: ChE,MSEiN   E-mail: davism@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu    | Departmental Networking/ComputingJ            -or- DAVISM+@osu.edu            |     The Ohio State UniversityJ http://www.er6.eng.ohio-state.edu/~davism/ |     197 Watts, (614) 292-6928   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 02:10:01 -0400t* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>; Subject: Re: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo) - Message-ID: <39C854B9.5B15CEF7@tsoft-inc.com>s   Dan Allen wrote: > S >   And people bitch about VMS pricing!  Geez, Oracle has been one of the costliestnT >   products I've ever dealt with! Are these numbers for a development license (i.e.T >   ALL of the pre-compilers and ODBC libraries, et. al.) or just a run-time system?W >   I wonder why SQLSERVER is so popular despite its (alleged) performance and capacityw >   limitations? >  > >LL > > Alphaserver           System list price (VMS)          Oracle EnterpriseG > > DS10/DS10L                    $7k                              $70kuG > > DS20e (2cpu)                 $40k                             $200kr% > > ES40 (4cpu)                 $100kf	 > > $400ktG > > GS320 (32cpu)              $2000k                            $3500k   P Real eye-opening.  I knew Oracle was expensive, but no details.  The details are shocking, at least to me.u  L So, a question.  I don't use relational databases.  I'm clueless.  Can theseN products actually do enough for you to justify the prices?  The database priceM is on top of any application development.  Does the database really save thatsP much on application development, or provide capabilities that cannot be achieved in a less expensive manner?e   Dave   -- n4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:49:31 +0100i0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>; Subject: Re: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)e* Message-ID: <39C8882B.16D6633D@uk.sun.com>   JF Mezei wrote:l >  > Dan Allen wrote: > >mU > >   And people bitch about VMS pricing!  Geez, Oracle has been one of the costliestm$ > >   products I've ever dealt with! >  > Reality check please:t > P > Does Oracle charge more for a VMS platform license than for an equivalent UNIX! > or NT system platform licence ?  > = No Oracle now uses something called UPU's there is a standardc? price per UPU, for example a 1 UPU license on a perpetual basis.: for Enterprise Edition costs 100 dollars on all platforms.  6 That said UPU's are calculated on the following basis.  3 Mhz * 1.5 for RISC or 1 for CISC * number of CPU's.,  > You just need to be sure that your OpenVMS/Alpha machine does 3 actually deliver 1.5x the throughput per CPU at an .1 equivalent clock rate as a Intel/NT based system.e  N > In other words, if you buy a 8086 server with equivalent CPU power to a DS10L > box, would Oracle charge more for the DS10 versus the 8086 based machine ?   Regards  Andrew Harrisonu Enterprise IT Architecta   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:05:27 +0100p0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>; Subject: Re: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)p* Message-ID: <39C88BE7.447E6983@uk.sun.com>   David A Froble wrote:b >  > Dan Allen wrote: > >SU > >   And people bitch about VMS pricing!  Geez, Oracle has been one of the costliest V > >   products I've ever dealt with! Are these numbers for a development license (i.e.V > >   ALL of the pre-compilers and ODBC libraries, et. al.) or just a run-time system?Y > >   I wonder why SQLSERVER is so popular despite its (alleged) performance and capacity  > >   limitations? > >e > > >nN > > > Alphaserver           System list price (VMS)          Oracle EnterpriseI > > > DS10/DS10L                    $7k                              $70ksI > > > DS20e (2cpu)                 $40k                             $200k ' > > > ES40 (4cpu)                 $100k  > > > $400klI > > > GS320 (32cpu)              $2000k                            $3500kw > R > Real eye-opening.  I knew Oracle was expensive, but no details.  The details are > shocking, at least to me.e >    It can be cheaper than this: 1 These are list prices D 2 They are based on perpetual licenses for Oracle Enterprise EditionF   2 or 4 year licenses are cheaper. 35, and 60 dollars per UPU vs 100.H 3 You can use standard edition on anything up to 4 CPU's and the prices D   for this are 5.25, 9 and 15 dollars per UPU for 2, 4 and perpetual	 licenses. @   This pricing is much more in line with Oracle's workgroup DBMS competitor  !   which is now mainly SQL-Server.o  -   Of course Microsoft Access is free :):):):)p 			lN > So, a question.  I don't use relational databases.  I'm clueless.  Can theseP > products actually do enough for you to justify the prices?  The database priceO > is on top of any application development.  Does the database really save thatoR > much on application development, or provide capabilities that cannot be achieved > in a less expensive manner?  > E I would say that they probably are a better deal than trying to write*
 something C yourself. Investment Banking is full of companies that have written- their E own languages and compilers and middleware because they felt that theb costskG were adequately rewarded by the business benefits. I don't know of any 53 who have taken the same approach to writing a DBMS.c  C The numbers are headline grabing but large customers will be payinge less.    Regardsi Andrew Harrisone Enterprise IT Architecth   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:16:11 GMT,% From: A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig)e; Subject: Re: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)i2 Message-ID: <39c89a67.1198466583@news.newsguy.com>  , On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:15:05 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:l   >Dan Allen wrote:t >>  T >>   And people bitch about VMS pricing!  Geez, Oracle has been one of the costliest# >>   products I've ever dealt with!p >l >Reality check please: >pO >Does Oracle charge more for a VMS platform license than for an equivalent UNIX   >or NT system platform licence ? >mM >In other words, if you buy a 8086 server with equivalent CPU power to a DS10hK >box, would Oracle charge more for the DS10 versus the 8086 based machine ?c  F It;s supposed to be about the same for standard Oracle. The changes toC the pricing strategy were intended to stop the cost escalating intoeA the stratosphere as user count went up on high end systems. UntiltD recently you could buy Oracle RDB in a minimum of 8 units for VMS atF around $10k. If the change forces you to now buy an Enterprise licenseC for RDB even on a low end development Alpha workstation (as posters @ are suggesting) then this is ridiculous. However I would talk toC Oracle directly if told this and refuse to accept this as an answer * until it came from the head of Oracle RDB.  E What's perhaps missing is any equivalent of Oracle lite style pricingo on VMS.r   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:11:35 -0400 ) From: "Ebinger . Eric" <EEbinger@drc.com>o; Subject: RE: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)sB Message-ID: <7162F87E9EF4D311BA9900805FC1D3AE7A61F8@and02.drc.com>   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: A.Greig@virgin.net [mailto:A.Greig@virgin.net] > H > It;s supposed to be about the same for standard Oracle. The changes toE > the pricing strategy were intended to stop the cost escalating intopC > the stratosphere as user count went up on high end systems. Until F > recently you could buy Oracle RDB in a minimum of 8 units for VMS atH > around $10k. If the change forces you to now buy an Enterprise licenseE > for RDB even on a low end development Alpha workstation (as postersoB > are suggesting) then this is ridiculous. However I would talk toE > Oracle directly if told this and refuse to accept this as an answerr, > until it came from the head of Oracle RDB. >   ? Rdb is ONLY available as Enterprise (there is no Rdb standard)..G The only licensing options available are named user and UPU (capacity).hD If you have an Rdb application on your web server that gets ten hitsE a day you have a choice between buying a name user license for anyonea. who might ever use it or paying the UPU price.   Eric Ebinger Dynamics Research Corporationl   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:12:53 -0400u) From: "Ebinger . Eric" <EEbinger@drc.com>r; Subject: RE: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)vB Message-ID: <7162F87E9EF4D311BA9900805FC1D3AE7A61F9@and02.drc.com>   > -----Original Message-----9 > From: andrew harrison [mailto:andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com]t > It can be cheaper than this: > 1 These are list priceseF > 2 They are based on perpetual licenses for Oracle Enterprise EditionH >   2 or 4 year licenses are cheaper. 35, and 60 dollars per UPU vs 100.? > 3 You can use standard edition on anything up to 4 CPU's and  
 > the prices UF >   for this are 5.25, 9 and 15 dollars per UPU for 2, 4 and perpetual > licenses. B >   This pricing is much more in line with Oracle's workgroup DBMS
 > competitor -# >   which is now mainly SQL-Server., >   . Rdb is only available in Enterprise edition.  A VMS is not on the list of supported systems for standard edition.  Your 3rd option does not apply.    Eric Ebinger   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:17:10 -0400-) From: "Ebinger . Eric" <EEbinger@drc.com> ; Subject: RE: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)uB Message-ID: <7162F87E9EF4D311BA9900805FC1D3AE7A61FA@and02.drc.com>  H Oracle7/8/8i licenses are available in standard edition and professional@ edition.  Oracle Rdb is available in only professional edition.   ; You can buy Oracle standard edition for 15% of the cost of  3 Oracle professional edition on an x86 based system.rE VMS is not on the list of platforms for which the standard edition iseG available.  In addition, non-Intel systems are priced at 1.5x the pricegE of the same software on an Intel system (except for mainframe systemsLL which is 24x as expensive).  Which would indicate (assuming the information H on the Oracle web site is accurate) that Oracle on VMS would be 10x the " minimum cost of Oracle on Intel.    J What is certain is that Rdb is 10x as expensive as Oracle standard editionG on an Intel system (assuming both systems run at the same speed - Mhz).    Eric Ebinger   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: JF Mezei [mailto:jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca], > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 10:15 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com = > Subject: Re: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)r >  >  > Dan Allen wrote: > > < > >   And people bitch about VMS pricing!  Geez, Oracle has  > been one of the costliesti$ > >   products I've ever dealt with! >  > Reality check please:e > > > Does Oracle charge more for a VMS platform license than for  > an equivalent UNIX! > or NT system platform licence ?o > ? > In other words, if you buy a 8086 server with equivalent CPU g > power to a DS10@= > box, would Oracle charge more for the DS10 versus the 8086 @ > based machine ?. >    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2000 08:46:22 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)w; Subject: RE: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)v, Message-ID: <G7BeOo56PULD@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>  C In article <7162F87E9EF4D311BA9900805FC1D3AE7A61F9@and02.drc.com>, r/     "Ebinger . Eric" <EEbinger@drc.com> writes:i > C > VMS is not on the list of supported systems for standard edition.a  C    It's not on the list on their web page, but it certainly exists.e  =    I've got a CD in front of me that says "Oracle 8i Standard E    Edition release 2 (8.1.6) for Alpha OpenVMS". It seemed to installq$    fine on a DS10 running VMS 7.2-1.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:20:28 GMTe& From: "Lee Gillie" <Lee@NOSPAModp.com>. Subject: HELP! Stack Underflow / C++ / pthread9 Message-ID: <MI3y5.271$Ok4.13806@sea-read.news.verio.net>i  @ I'm using the pthread interface to provide service threads for a< new tcp/ip server.  I've only use DECthreads in a simple C++? without use of classes, to see that it works, and am now tryingd0 to invoke a class member function in the thread.  D The tact is to create a static function, as the thread service startA routine.  I pass "this" pointer via arg, and cast the arg back toe? a pointer of the class instance in the static service function.nG BTW I tried the static service function as both a member and non-memberr> static function.  I then invoke a member function on the classA pointer.  I have verified the address contained in the pointer tooB the static function is the same address I originally got back from "new".   The symptoms are:V  E Crashes as follows in the first line of the member function which wasi8 called by the static thread service function as follows:   break on unhandled exception attE SESSION\FileServerSession::SessionServiceThread\%LINE 6449 in %TASK 2m( error: %TASK 2 has underflowed its stack?   SP: 7FE59600  Stack base at: 001EB000  Stack top at: 001E0E00-    "   6449:         char* ubuffer = 0;  :  task id     state hold  pri substate        thread_object;  %TASK     1 READY        11                 Initial threadhJ  module name     routine name                     line       rel PC    abs PCD  SHARE$DEBUG                                                00000000 001358E2D  SHARE$DEBUG                                                00000000 001358E2    E This all seems reasonable to me to do.  This technique works great onsI NT.  Any ideas what the problem may be?  Some of the code provided below,U in case it may help...   VMS - OpenVMS V6.2 (vax)* C++ - DEC C++ V5.4-010 on OpenVMS VAX V6.2 CMA - CMA V2.12-296TA (Yes, I write programs for the VAX/VMS museum of natural history)F   TIA - Best regards, Lee Gillie --F ______________________________________________________________________F Lee Gillie, CCP                                Remove NOSPAM to E-MailF Online Data Processing, Inc. - 3501 N. Haven -  Spokane, WA 99207-8500   Incoming socket connection...          for (;;) {G                 if ((connection = accept( sock, (sockaddr*) &sock_name,t &namelength )) == -1) {l:                         perror("provide_service- accept");%                         goto done100;c                 }s1                 printf("Connection accepted.\n"); ,                 fss = new FileServerSession;6                 fss->StartSessionThread( connection );   Starting the session thread...9 void FileServerSession::StartSessionThread( int newsock )  {D         m_sock = newsock;.-         status = pthread_create( &m_threadID,$F pthread_attr_default,StaticSessionServiceThread,(pthread_addr_t)this); }u  - Static (non-member) thread service routine...c= static void* StaticSessionServiceThread( pthread_addr_t arg )  {i         FileServerSession* fss;t'         fss = (FileServerSession*) arg;m-         return (fss->SessionServiceThread());t }m  & class member thread service routine.../ void* FileServerSession::SessionServiceThread()- {-K         char* ubuffer = 0;  <---- This is where the UNDERFLOW crash occurs..         long usize = 0;u   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:01:57 GMTe& From: "Lee Gillie" <Lee@NOSPAModp.com>2 Subject: Re: HELP! Stack Underflow / C++ / pthread9 Message-ID: <946y5.277$Ok4.14155@sea-read.news.verio.net>r  > I figured this out.  The module being called allocated a large9 char buffer, too large for the stack.  The clue was here:V  * > error: %TASK 2 has underflowed its stackA >   SP: 7FE59600  Stack base at: 001EB000  Stack top at: 001E0E00.  @ I did the math, and found the allocation by subtracting TOP fromA BASE, and found the AVAILABLE was way less than HEAP used by this ? one module call.  I made the buffer smaller, and VIOLLA!  There @ is probably some way to deal with this, but for now I understandE what the issue is, and can simply work with a smaller buffer for now.   C As usual, the messages we see generally make you ponder the meaning A of life, without giving a clear indication of the ACTUAL problem.C> Not a jab at VMS, just error messages in general.  Although in= fairness, the messages did eventually lead me to the problem./  * Sorry if anyone groinked away on this one. --F ______________________________________________________________________F Lee Gillie, CCP                                Remove NOSPAM to E-MailF Online Data Processing, Inc. - 3501 N. Haven -  Spokane, WA 99207-8500    1 "Lee Gillie" <Lee@NOSPAModp.com> wrote in messagei3 news:MI3y5.271$Ok4.13806@sea-read.news.verio.net... B > I'm using the pthread interface to provide service threads for a> > new tcp/ip server.  I've only use DECthreads in a simple C++A > without use of classes, to see that it works, and am now trying 2 > to invoke a class member function in the thread. >tF > The tact is to create a static function, as the thread service startC > routine.  I pass "this" pointer via arg, and cast the arg back to A > a pointer of the class instance in the static service function. I > BTW I tried the static service function as both a member and non-member @ > static function.  I then invoke a member function on the classC > pointer.  I have verified the address contained in the pointer tosD > the static function is the same address I originally got back from > "new". >u > The symptoms are:r >tG > Crashes as follows in the first line of the member function which waso: > called by the static thread service function as follows: >a! > break on unhandled exception athG > SESSION\FileServerSession::SessionServiceThread\%LINE 6449 in %TASK 2 * > error: %TASK 2 has underflowed its stackA >   SP: 7FE59600  Stack base at: 001EB000  Stack top at: 001E0E00  >  >T$ >   6449:         char* ubuffer = 0; >,< >  task id     state hold  pri substate        thread_object= >  %TASK     1 READY        11                 Initial thread L >  module name     routine name                     line       rel PC    abs > PCF >  SHARE$DEBUG                                                00000000
 > 001358E2F >  SHARE$DEBUG                                                00000000
 > 001358E2 >  >FG > This all seems reasonable to me to do.  This technique works great ontK > NT.  Any ideas what the problem may be?  Some of the code provided below,v > in case it may help... >l > VMS - OpenVMS V6.2 (vax), > C++ - DEC C++ V5.4-010 on OpenVMS VAX V6.2 > CMA - CMA V2.12-296nC > (Yes, I write programs for the VAX/VMS museum of natural history)m >i  > TIA - Best regards, Lee Gillie > --H > ______________________________________________________________________H > Lee Gillie, CCP                                Remove NOSPAM to E-MailH > Online Data Processing, Inc. - 3501 N. Haven -  Spokane, WA 99207-8500 >  > Incoming socket connection...  >         for (;;) {I >                 if ((connection = accept( sock, (sockaddr*) &sock_name,  > &namelength )) == -1) {I< >                         perror("provide_service- accept");' >                         goto done100;0 >                 } 3 >                 printf("Connection accepted.\n");e. >                 fss = new FileServerSession;8 >                 fss->StartSessionThread( connection ); >   > Starting the session thread...; > void FileServerSession::StartSessionThread( int newsock )a > {r >         m_sock = newsock;o/ >         status = pthread_create( &m_threadID, H > pthread_attr_default,StaticSessionServiceThread,(pthread_addr_t)this); > }a >t/ > Static (non-member) thread service routine...o? > static void* StaticSessionServiceThread( pthread_addr_t arg )f > {d! >         FileServerSession* fss; ) >         fss = (FileServerSession*) arg;./ >         return (fss->SessionServiceThread());w > }L >V( > class member thread service routine...1 > void* FileServerSession::SessionServiceThread()  > { E >         char* ubuffer = 0;  <---- This is where the UNDERFLOW crashe occurs.  >         long usize = 0;  >  >7 >  >    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:03:36 GMT % From: Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com>S& Subject: Re: HSZ50 in Hobbyist Cluster) Message-ID: <8q9r0f$tf0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>0  6 In article <W5Xx5.480$F93.194695@typhoon.aracnet.com>,5   "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote:eD > It looks like I'm going to have on *loan* a very nice StorageWorksF > setup. With at least two HSZ50's, a whole pile of RZ29-VW's, and two  > rack segments of either 4 or 5 [...]4F > The systems I've got at home which I can connect up to this hardware > are as follows:i >o > DEC 3000/300LX > AlphaStation 200 4/233F > AlphaStation 500/333 (with both built in Wide SCSI and a Narrow SCSIE >                       card, currently have two BA350's attached andS3 >                       a Exabyte Jukebox attached)  > PWS 433aui >s [...]e >iE > Now, can I plug any of the above systems into the HSZ50's?  LookingaD > through the available documentation I was able to find on Compaq'sG > FTP site I see that the only supported system is the DEC 3000 (thoughnF > somehow I don't think the 300LX is intended to be plugged into one).E > My preference is either the AS200 or AS500, which ever is used willl9 > most likely have the Narrow SCSI PCI card placed in it.a  G The HSZ50 controller module has a fast-wide-differential SCSI interfacenD with a HD68 connector. You either need a DWZZ-something converter or% a different HBA (KZPSA-BB, KZPBA-CB).   E > It looks like the HSZ50's have the HSOF V5.1 software on the PCMCIA.G > cards.  Are there any layered products or License PAK's needed on theS
 > VMS Box?   No.r  . > Oh, is HSOF V5.1 and OpenVMS V7.2 a problem?  A Don't know. V5.1 is quite old, though. I beleive V5.4 is current.   E > My last question at this time is what does the battery on the HSZ50  > do, and is it vital?  G It is for the writeback cache. I'm not sure if you can run without it -iB check the documentation for a parameter like 'CACHE_POLICY' or so.   --
 Uwe Zessin    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.n   ------------------------------   Date: 20 SEP 2000 14:26:16 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)& Subject: Re: HSZ50 in Hobbyist Cluster6 Message-ID: <20SEP00.14261620@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  = In a previous article, Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com> wrote:l  C ->Don't know. V5.1 is quite old, though. I believe V5.4 is current.   > Actually V5.7 is current - and the LAST release. The HS-seriesF controllers are now considered "legacy" by Compaq and in a "RetirementH process". Support for all HS* controllers and software will end on April 1, 2001.  G ->> My last question at this time is what does the battery on the HSZ50s ->> do, and is it vital? -> dI ->It is for the writeback cache. I'm not sure if you can run without it -nD ->check the documentation for a parameter like 'CACHE_POLICY' or so.  B It's vital for RAID and mirror sets. The CACHE_POLICY only affectsA what happens when the battery is charging. When batteries are not @ charged at all, CACHE_POLICY doesn't much matter. With unchargedG batteries, you can run only single disk drives (JBOD's) - RAID sets andc Mirror sets won't function.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 09:22:35 +0100 - From: "POWERS, John" <John.POWERS@sema.co.uk>E0 Subject: RE: LIB$FIND_FILE exclude method wanted; Message-ID: <D30A62ABC710D211AEE100A0C9D615EE316483@REAES2>9   Have a look at STR$MATCH_WILD>   $ HELP RTL STR STR$MATCH_WILD     This does exactly what you want.   -----Original Message-----6 From: Erik Ahlefeldt [mailto:oahlefel@metz.une.edu.au] Sent: 20 September 2000 04:33e To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Come, Subject: LIB$FIND_FILE exclude method wanted    K  I have a program that uses LIB$FIND_FILE to return filenames that match a DG  wildcarded filename string. I would like to be able to exclude certain  files C  from the search in the same way the DCL DIRECTORY command /EXCLUDE 	 qualifiertL  does. My current approach is to do a separate LIB$FIND_FILE on the excludedK  filename string and then match the two sets of results - this looks like aeL  horrible kludge. Is there a better way to do this? Anybody know how the DCL,  commands like DIRECTORY and SEARCH do this?  Erik Ahlefeldt.    -- Cheers, John  F  - Note  This message represents my opinions and nothing else, not theI   opinion of SEMA, my family, or the cricket club - though my dog Meg did E   nod in agreement whilst I was typing. If you have any problems then.D   please complain to her (or me, but not SEMA, my family or the CC).    K ___________________________________________________________________________EB This email is confidential and intended solely for the use of the H individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are E solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of n Sema Group. M If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have received thisyI email in error and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or y- copying of this email is strictly prohibited.r  E If you have received this email in error please notify the Sema Groupa. Helpdesk by telephone on +44 (0) 121 627 5600.K ___________________________________________________________________________i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 09:16:48 -0600 = From: Arlen Williams <remove.arlen.williams@remove.sabre.com>r0 Subject: Re: LIB$FIND_FILE exclude method wanted0 Message-ID: <39C88080.5F25905E@remove.sabre.com>   Erik Ahlefeldt wrote:c > L >  I have a program that uses LIB$FIND_FILE to return filenames that match aO >  wildcarded filename string. I would like to be able to exclude certain files O >  from the search in the same way the DCL DIRECTORY command /EXCLUDE qualifiernN >  does. My current approach is to do a separate LIB$FIND_FILE on the excludedM >  filename string and then match the two sets of results - this looks like aoN >  horrible kludge. Is there a better way to do this? Anybody know how the DCL. >  commands like DIRECTORY and SEARCH do this? >  Erik Ahlefeldt.E You could use str$match_wild() on the resultant list items to do yourl
 own excludes.i   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:57:08 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)0 Subject: Re: LIB$FIND_FILE exclude method wantedL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2009001057080001@user-2iveabs.dialup.mindspring.com>  o In article <39C88080.5F25905E@remove.sabre.com>, Arlen Williams <remove.arlen.williams@remove.sabre.com> wrote:e   > Erik Ahlefeldt wrote:t > > N > >  I have a program that uses LIB$FIND_FILE to return filenames that match aQ > >  wildcarded filename string. I would like to be able to exclude certain files,Q > >  from the search in the same way the DCL DIRECTORY command /EXCLUDE qualifieraP > >  does. My current approach is to do a separate LIB$FIND_FILE on the excludedO > >  filename string and then match the two sets of results - this looks like acP > >  horrible kludge. Is there a better way to do this? Anybody know how the DCL0 > >  commands like DIRECTORY and SEARCH do this? > >  Erik Ahlefeldt.G > You could use str$match_wild() on the resultant list items to do yourr > own excludes.C  L str$match_wild is a good idea, but it doesn't appear to handle all the cases! that DIR/EXCLUDE does.  Consider:   % $ dir [a...]*.dir/exclude=[a.b*...c*]0  L str$match_wild knows the * and % wildcards, but doesn't appear to know about ... in a directory spec.    < The RMS services know about (at least) 4 kinds of wildcards: 1. * 2. % 3. ... in a directoryE 4. search list logical names  G (But it seems the last one doesn't work with DIR/EXCLUDE, which doesn't & allow a device name in the file spec.)  > I think there is a higher intelligence at work in DIR/EXCLUDE.   -- b Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comi   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 09:40:35 GMT) From: richard_maher@my-deja.com L Subject: Re: Microsoft SQL Server on Windows NT: OpenVMS tcp/ip connectivity) Message-ID: <8qa0mh$3gm$1@nnrp1.deja.com>    Hi Jim,G  = > > Is it better to use an application API / RPC method or is/ > > it "better" to use: > > some sort of self-developed TCP/IP messaging protocol?  D Personally, I would go for either of the above methods and avoid anyD ODBC/dynamicSQL implementation unless "simplicity of development" isC your overriding factor *and* you're not the least bit interested intE security or performance. I believe Compaq came out with a "MiddlewarehF Handbook?" not so long ago, that you should try and get your hands on.  G I also believe that VMS 7.2 supports COM so that may be a good place toiC start. DCE RPC is available but, again in my opinion, is incrediblynF cumbersome, restrictive and difficult to implement. If you were comingE from NT to VMS, rather than the other way around, then I would have ahD great product to recommend that handles all of the annoying and timeD consuming functionality like User Authorization, Multi-threading and+ Server Managment / Task Scheduling for you.t  F Now, I hope you can help me. I assume the you're running SQL Server onD NT and a combination of Sybase/Oracle on VMS. Is that correct? WouldB you really not like to be able to wrap updates to more than one ofE these databases in a Two-Phase Commit? Are these databases and all of < the applications that access them really mutually exclusive?   Hi Dave,  G Do you have any common tables/data between your Oracle DBMS datbase andeB the MS-SQL 7.0 database? (Customers? Employees? Org_units? Parts?)  % If so, how do you keep them in synch?    Regards Richard Maher.  : In article <9IVx5.1152$hD4.290958@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com>,0   "Dave Pampreen" <davepampreen@home.com> wrote:G > Check out Attunity Connect (Formerly ISG)  product.  From VMS (VAX ora ALPHA)D > you can access anything.   Currently, I am getting MS-SQL 7.0 data from NT E > on my VMS box, and also using the same product, accessing my Oracle  Codasyl-2 > DBMS (formerly DEC DBMS) data from my Win 9x PC. >n$ > Check out http://www.attunity.com/ >e+ > If you want more, just drop me an e-mail._ >_ > Dave >_4 > "Jim Strehlow" <jims@data911.com> wrote in message, > news:8q8vet$r46@dispatch.concentric.net...A > > We need to know what products exist to enable a program on an  OpenVMSg > AlphaoC > > computer to connect and query a Microsoft SQL Server running onc	 Microsoft  > > Windows NT._ > >t> > > We have full database instances of both Oracle and Sybase.. > > We have Oracle OCI and Sybase dbLibrary/C.0 > > Is either sufficient to accomplish the task? > >nD > > What is needed for the TCP/IP networking connection to Microsoft Windows  > NT?  > > H > > Do we need a middleware product that has an OpenVMS and a Windows NT% > > component to accomplish the task?e > >n= > > Is it better to use an application API / RPC method or isp it "better" to > used: > > some sort of self-developed TCP/IP messaging protocol? > >d> > > We would appreciate guidance through this discovery phase. > >t > > Thank you. > >n" > > Jim Strehlow: jims@data911.com > > Data911  > > 2021 Challenger Dr > > Alameda CA 94501-1038S > > (510)865-9100 x44  > >n > >- > >i >e >c    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.o   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Sep 2000 16:50:33 GMT' From: "Jim Strehlow" <jims@data911.com>FL Subject: Re: Microsoft SQL Server on Windows NT: OpenVMS tcp/ip connectivity0 Message-ID: <8qapsp$q8j@dispatch.concentric.net>  2 We will communicate to a foreign NT server managedD by another company. We will "share" certain data at timed intervals.   Thank you for your guidance.   Jim Strehlow: jims@data911.com Data911d 2021 Challenger Dr Alameda CA 94501-1038a (510)865-9100 x44e  K richard_maher@my-deja.com wrote in message <8qa0mh$3gm$1@nnrp1.deja.com>...e >...* >I assume the you're running SQL Server onE >NT and a combination of Sybase/Oracle on VMS. Is that correct? WouldnC >you really not like to be able to wrap updates to more than one of.F >these databases in a Two-Phase Commit? Are these databases and all of= >the applications that access them really mutually exclusive?a > ...sH >Do you have any common tables/data between your Oracle DBMS datbase andC >the MS-SQL 7.0 database? (Customers? Employees? Org_units? Parts?)l > & >If so, how do you keep them in synch? >a >Regards Richard Maher.a > ; >In article <9IVx5.1152$hD4.290958@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com>,l1 >  "Dave Pampreen" <davepampreen@home.com> wrote:kG > Check out Attunity Connect (Formerly ISG)  product.  From VMS (VAX or_E >ALPHA) you can access anything.   Currently, I am getting MS-SQL 7.0R> > data from NT on my VMS box, and also using the same product, > accessing my Oracle0: > Codasyl DBMS (formerly DEC DBMS) data from my Win 9x PC. > $ > Check out http://www.attunity.com/ >r+ > If you want more, just drop me an e-mail.  >p > Dave   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:45:19 -0400i6 From: "S Paquin" <stephane.paquin@nospam.ispatnet.com>L Subject: Re: Microsoft SQL Server on Windows NT: OpenVMS tcp/ip connectivity2 Message-ID: <PI6y5.27904$Z2.398001@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  K     Can you give an overview of the procedure involved in accessing data on H a WinNT SQLServer box from a process running on VMS  using this AttunityK stuff ? I suppose you need to buy the bridge for VMS and another for the NT H box ? What is the approximate price ? How long to code INSERT, UPDATE orK DELETEs in VMS Fortran ? Do you use ODBC APIs on the VMS side or is there af proprietary API ?        Your help is invaluable.  
     S. Paquin   6 Dave Pampreen <davepampreen@home.com> wrote in message4 news:9IVx5.1152$hD4.290958@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com...G > Check out Attunity Connect (Formerly ISG)  product.  From VMS (VAX ore ALPHA)L > you can access anything.   Currently, I am getting MS-SQL 7.0 data from NTE > on my VMS box, and also using the same product, accessing my Oraclea Codasyl12 > DBMS (formerly DEC DBMS) data from my Win 9x PC. > $ > Check out http://www.attunity.com/ >s+ > If you want more, just drop me an e-mail.  >% > Dave >R >Y > 4 > "Jim Strehlow" <jims@data911.com> wrote in message, > news:8q8vet$r46@dispatch.concentric.net...I > > We need to know what products exist to enable a program on an OpenVMS  > Alpha C > > computer to connect and query a Microsoft SQL Server running on 	 Microsoft  > > Windows NT.3 > > > > > We have full database instances of both Oracle and Sybase.. > > We have Oracle OCI and Sybase dbLibrary/C.0 > > Is either sufficient to accomplish the task? > >sL > > What is needed for the TCP/IP networking connection to Microsoft Windows > NT?  > >6H > > Do we need a middleware product that has an OpenVMS and a Windows NT% > > component to accomplish the task?t > >rL > > Is it better to use an application API / RPC method or is it "better" to > use_: > > some sort of self-developed TCP/IP messaging protocol? > > > > > We would appreciate guidance through this discovery phase. > >p > > Thank you. > > " > > Jim Strehlow: jims@data911.com > > Data911o > > 2021 Challenger Dr > > Alameda CA 94501-1038t > > (510)865-9100 x44c > >e > >  > >l >t >)   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:48:06 GMT % From: A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig)0 Subject: Re: Middleware for RMS 2 Message-ID: <39c89542.1197149650@news.newsguy.com>  3 On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 16:22:43 +0200, "Chris Breemer" ' <chris_breemer@nl.compuware.com> wrote:    >Hi all,? >Does there exist ODBC (or other middleware) to access RMS datah= >from a PC ? Can RMS be accessed by RDB (I know there is ODBC  >for RDB) ?p  A Others have answered but a couple of points not mentioned so far:v  E 1) ISG Naviator (www.isgsoft.com) will do all of the above but costs.s  E 2) If you already have Oracle's RDB ODBC drivers (free download) thendD you can use RDB transparent gateway to RMS and then the ODBC link to RDB as another option.   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2000 10:12:06 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER). Subject: Re: No more SYSDUMP.DMP? No more NTP?* Message-ID: <39c87156$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  Q In article <8q8dq0$ov$1@kadath.deep.it>, Cthulhu <cthulhu@kadath.deep.it> writes:-' >And SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$NTP] is there.:   What's in it ?  6 >Maybe that try to contact 127.0.0.1 is too premature?  ( Don't think so. NTP is started this way.  $ >> LOGIN.COM) will see this problem. >.B >LOGIN.COM? The one in the user's home, or shoud be another one in >SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$NTP]?  2 Yes (see below). And the TCPIP$NTP.CONF of course.  & $ ty SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$NTP]login.comF $! login.com for DIGITAL TCP/IP Services for OpenVMS Auxiliary service  H This directory and the LOGIN.COM (and the TCPIP$NTP.TEMPLATE) is created by the TCPIP$CONFIG.COM.  H Which user ? NTP runs under the user TCPIP$NTP and the home directory ofG this user is the SYS$SPECIFIC:[TCPIP$NTP]. So, what user did you mean ?r   -- a< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888n< FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netF <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 23:30:37 +1200 4 From: "Mike Tock" <hiding_me@don't_spam.hotmail.com> Subject: NTP with UCX 4.2 * Message-ID: <8qa6sa$p6p$1@news.ihug.co.nz>   Hi  B Has anybody got NTP to work with this version of UCX the ECO is 4.  K I get things to run but in the log file I don't see any messages that is its0 actually talking to the host I want to sync off.F if I make the node a local master, then the log file puts in a message+ saying it accepted itself as the sync host.     < As as an aside, is it worth upgrading from UCX 4.2 to 5.0a??   Cheers Mike   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:46:15 +0000i- From: SysAdmin <djesys.nospam@fsi.net.mapson>n Subject: Re: OpenVMS. Message-ID: <39C8BFA7.773EEC8D@fsi.net.mapson>   Dave Pampreen wrote: > I > At the CAMUS 2000 conference in Boston, Compaq gave a presentaion whicheL > stated..."We are oin the process of getting certified for the DOD (I thinkM > that's the right terminology)   This certification requires at least 15 (oro& > 10) years of continues VMS support." > N > I think that says it all!  I forgot if it was 10 or 15, but either way, it's > a good sign.  C There are a lot of small- to large-size firms that live or die by a H single large client. I'd be very sad to see OpenVMS fall under that same heading.   David J. Dachteray   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:35:36 -0300 ) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br  Subject: OpenVMS + EducationL Message-ID: <OF0FE3BC59.5D34A775-ON83256960.003E506F@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>   People,r  H In my personal opinion, OpenVMS will become a good choice for students = ifH Compaq relaunch a new "Alpha PC" with support to OpenVMS / Tru64 / Linu= x.H A cheap machine with free licenses and free software . When I say free = softH I am saying the develop. tools + data bases etc ... not only the Compaq=   (DEC)u	 products.aH This should be a partneship program (Oracle + Netscape + Ingres + etc .= . )s@ This machine must be cheaper with some integrated hardware like:   - Video (4MB) onboard0 - Network (10/100) onboard - Modem  (56K) onboard - SCSI, etc ....
 - 3 PCI slotsu  H Why Compaq will make investments in OpenVMS if people still using Micro= Vax  II ??l  F Of course it=B4s a good hardware, but if people dont migrate their old
 systems to atn least a DS10 .....  H The marketing says:  450.000 sites + 10 milion of users .... how many u= sers	 are using * new Alpha or still using VAX technology  ?  E I worked with VAX for a long time and I am trying to but to myself an$ Alpha 400 not ar Microvax 3100/40.t    
 Fabio Cardoso  Analsista de Suporte   =k   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:01:31 GMTy% From: A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig)u7 Subject: Re: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)L2 Message-ID: <39c89655.1197424365@news.newsguy.com>  3 On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 09:52:40 +0400, Valentin Likoum % <valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru> wrote:      >hC >    Bad news if you are going to use Oracle RDB - there is not RDBt7 >"Standart" edition - only "Enterprise". So you'll needi >e3 >     466MHz * 1.5 Risc Multiplier * $100 = $69,900e >for DS10. Sigh.  D However this is unlimited users. With previous Oracle pricing  a 100A user RDB license would, for a DS10 , cost over $100,000 IIRC. A 4e? processor ES40 handling 1000 connections would have been over a @ million dollars.instead of around $250,000 under the new system.  D It has also been my experience that Oracle can be very flexible with@ pricing - expecially if you take out an advance maint. contract.   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Sep 2000 14:50:25 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)7 Subject: Re: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)r, Message-ID: <8qairh$141@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  k In article <1465843170.20000920095240@ncc.volga.ru>, Valentin Likoum <valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru> writes:s >oC >    Bad news if you are going to use Oracle RDB - there is not RDB 7 >"Standart" edition - only "Enterprise". So you'll need_ >_3 >     466MHz * 1.5 Risc Multiplier * $100 = $69,900a >for DS10. Sigh.  J For that amount you could buy at least 10 additional linux DS10s maxed outL with internal fast disks and run PostgreSQL on all of them.  The cumulative G throughput of these systems should blow the doors off the single OraclegK instance running on the lone DS10.  (Note, that's 11 independent databases,i) not one big one running across 11 nodes.)x  G For that matter, does anybody have numbers comparing the performance oncG DS10s of PostgreSQL on Linux vs. Oracle (on any OS)? The DS10 is a niceaF machine, and it would be fine for smallish databases (tens of Gb), butJ clearly it is not the right choice for anything much bigger than that, andJ $70K seems on the far side of ridiculous to pay for a database program for such a small database.     Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech -   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2000 08:36:12 -07001 From: nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett)N7 Subject: Re: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)9, Message-ID: <VIRB$netKzVO@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>  5 In article <1465843170.20000920095240@ncc.volga.ru>, l9    Valentin Likoum <valentin.likoum@ncc.volga.ru> writes:e > D >     Bad news if you are going to use Oracle RDB - there is not RDB8 > "Standart" edition - only "Enterprise". So you'll need > F    That's not my understanding. I was quoted a price on Rdb "standard" edition last summer.  D    Of course, getting reliable information about Rdb from any Oracle= sales person is tough so I'm not sure which of us is correct.    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2000 14:34:05 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)d7 Subject: Re: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)C+ Message-ID: <MBGQHpThF13B@eisner.decus.org>.  ` In article <VIRB$netKzVO@malvm1.mala.bc.ca>, nothome@spammers.are.scum (Malcolm Dunnett) writes:  F >    Of course, getting reliable information about Rdb from any Oracle? > sales person is tough so I'm not sure which of us is correct.a  5 Buying Rdb from their web site also seems impossible.  Has anyone found differently ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:53:51 +0000n- From: SysAdmin <djesys.nospam@fsi.net.mapson>t Subject: Re: PERL/UNZIP Problems. Message-ID: <39C8C16F.7294C378@fsi.net.mapson>   Hunter Goatley wrote:' > B > On 19 Sep 2000 18:56:38 GMT, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff > Hoffman) wrote:k > >IJ > >  Can somebody pull together a submission for the OpenVMS Freeware thatJ > >  contains the current/latest Zip kit for OpenVMS?  (The version of ZipH > >  included on the present Freeware distribution needs to be updated.) > >t@ > The latest kits can be found on FTP.WKU.EDU in [.VMS.FILESERV]A > as ZIP.ZIP, UNZIP.ZIP, and UNZIP.BCK for those without an UNZIP 
 > already. > F > I intend to include these in the list I send to you, which I hope to > do soon.....  @ I'm hoping to re-package both ZIP023 and UNZIPU1054 for use withF VMSINSTAL, but probably won't have it done in time for either CETS2000  or the next OpenVMS Freeware CD.   David J. Dachterai   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 03:01:25 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>> Subject: Re: Problems with the OpenVms web-based documentation- Message-ID: <39C860C5.33F2CAC6@tsoft-inc.com>D  & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: > J > I recently purchased TEN (10) spare LK461(x6) and LK46W(x4) just in case  D And I thought I was paranoid.  I wondered a bit when I got 2 spares.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:13:05 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)t> Subject: Re: Problems with the OpenVms web-based documentation0 Message-ID: <009F0652.4D8129BB@SendSpamHere.ORG>  Z In article <39C860C5.33F2CAC6@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:' >"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:s >> eK >> I recently purchased TEN (10) spare LK461(x6) and LK46W(x4) just in case, >wE >And I thought I was paranoid.  I wondered a bit when I got 2 spares.I  I Actually, 5 of them went into use right away, replacing the dirty, coffee@J stained, cat hair ladden keyboards that were there prior.  These tried andJ true 5 are the true spares in the collection.  The other five are awaitingJ their chance to replace one of those kludgy IBM-style keyboards which ship with new Alpha boxes.   5 FYI, the 10 LK46*s cost me $25.00, so why not get 10?P   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM-             O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.@   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:05:22 GMTa From: mark@NOSPAMtechop.co.uk > Subject: Re: Problems with the OpenVms web-based documentation1 Message-ID: <39c899a6.10897950@usenet.force9.net>   ? On 19 Sep 2000 18:49:28 GMT, sander@vmsbiz.enet.dec.com (Warren  Sander) wrote:  C >One other thing to try is 'ctrl-shift-reload' which is supposed totF >go directly to the web site and grab a fresh page irregardless of the* >status in your cache or the proxy cache.  >dS >Or try the alternate access to the page via http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/....sK >rather than the :8000 port. Again the page might not be in the interviningr >proxy server cache.   >dC >If it gets to be a real problem I could 'touch' every page so that I >proxy servers will think they are new and blow away the cache copies butnF >if the proxy server is truncating then that won't help and will cause >alot of extra bandwidth usage.5   Hi,S  E I have tried your suggestions but I pretty sure my problem is down to : our ISP. It does not occur when we swap to a "backup" ISP.   Cheers,-  
 Mark Williams2 http://www.techop.co.ukJ   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:12:27 GMTn% From: A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig)e> Subject: Re: Problems with the OpenVms web-based documentation2 Message-ID: <39c8c574.1209487440@news.newsguy.com>  @ On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:05:22 GMT, mark@NOSPAMtechop.co.uk wrote:    F >I have tried your suggestions but I pretty sure my problem is down to; >our ISP. It does not occur when we swap to a "backup" ISP._  C Could your ISP setup have set the browsers proxy settings? Might be.? worth checking and making sure that "Use a proxy server" is nott checked.   >Cheers, >M >Mark Williams >http://www.techop.co.uk   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2000 13:15:39 +0200) From: maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Maulis Adam)eL Subject: Re: Problems with the OpenVms web-based documentation (keyboards:-)! Message-ID: <Sy+KpQ1cu91U@ludens>o  p In article <009F0652.4D8129BB@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:\ > In article <39C860C5.33F2CAC6@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:( >>"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: >>> L >>> I recently purchased TEN (10) spare LK461(x6) and LK46W(x4) just in case [...] K > Actually, 5 of them went into use right away, replacing the dirty, coffeegL > stained, cat hair ladden keyboards that were there prior.  These tried andL > true 5 are the true spares in the collection.  The other five are awaitingL > their chance to replace one of those kludgy IBM-style keyboards which ship > with new Alpha boxes.   G   I don't understand you. You can order any newest Alpha hardware width0G   LK461-A2, an OpenVMS-style keyboard. (I chk the ds10, ds20 quickspec):  ;   (otherwise your right, we use LK401 (with VS 4000-60) fory)    all daily jobs including this post :-)u   Adam Maulis  OpenVMS$SYSTEM_MANAGER       > --Q > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMo            t   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 12:53:28 GMTo= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)gL Subject: Re: Problems with the OpenVms web-based documentation (keyboards:-)0 Message-ID: <009F0668.B54CAED4@SendSpamHere.ORG>  M In article <Sy+KpQ1cu91U@ludens>, maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Maulis Adam) writes:eq >In article <009F0652.4D8129BB@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:y] >> In article <39C860C5.33F2CAC6@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:g) >>>"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:a >>>>  M >>>> I recently purchased TEN (10) spare LK461(x6) and LK46W(x4) just in caseM >[...]L >> Actually, 5 of them went into use right away, replacing the dirty, coffeeM >> stained, cat hair ladden keyboards that were there prior.  These tried andsM >> true 5 are the true spares in the collection.  The other five are awaiting M >> their chance to replace one of those kludgy IBM-style keyboards which shiph >> with new Alpha boxes. >nH >  I don't understand you. You can order any newest Alpha hardware widthH >  LK461-A2, an OpenVMS-style keyboard. (I chk the ds10, ds20 quickspec)  I Even back before Compaq, I ordered Alphas explicitly specifying DEC stylepI keyboards and wouldn't you know it, they arrive with IBM style keyboards.oH In one case, the keyboard was replaced but the cost in time and shipping5 to return the old one simply wasn't worth the effort.a   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMi             O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 03:11:42 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist- Message-ID: <39C8632E.2D606312@tsoft-inc.com>c   Jordan Henderson wrote:  > ? > I doubt that SGI could have sold anywhere near as many...  NoM > matter how good they were.  $ Yeah, maybe they have some scruples.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2000 10:39:46 +0200G From: Jan Vorbrueggen <jan@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>r* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persistH Message-ID: <y4g0mvwj71.fsf@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>  ) carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:   O > As I recall, Sun didn't design the ES10000 - they bought the design from SGI.   J I'm not sure if the actual processor design also came from Cray via SGI toI Sun. That division of Cray was a long-time partner of Sun, and often the SK design of the processor board proper came from Sun itself, with the partnercM building a system out of it and adding, in this case, for instance the systemd
 interconnect.T  G If that is so, the current ecache problems likely come from Sun itself.0   	Jan   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:13:39 +0100i0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist* Message-ID: <39C87FC3.7CCA714E@uk.sun.com>   Jan Vorbrueggen wrote: > + > carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) writes:c > Q > > As I recall, Sun didn't design the ES10000 - they bought the design from SGI.c > L > I'm not sure if the actual processor design also came from Cray via SGI toJ > Sun. That division of Cray was a long-time partner of Sun, and often theM > design of the processor board proper came from Sun itself, with the partnerrO > building a system out of it and adding, in this case, for instance the systemn > interconnect.m >   G The Cray Business Systems Division (origionally FPS) designed the E10K pG with some help from Sun, they used a number of Sun developed ASICs etc 0% and had engineering support from Sun.   G The E10K replaced the CRS6400 which was developed in a similar fashion.t  C SGI's reasons for selling the Business Systems Division of Cray to -A Sun have always been speculated on. I personally think that they  @ were well aware of the fact that BSD probably could not survive > without Sun's active support and they did not want to take the@ hit to their stock that would have resulted from their axing of ? the BSD organisation. So they sold it to Sun, they did talk to   others as well.t  I > If that is so, the current ecache problems likely come from Sun itself.e  > The current ecache problems are caused by SRAM components and  Sun does not manufacture SRAM.    D This problem is more obvious on E10K's because they have more CPU's = but is not isolated to them. Any other purchasor of the E10K i; would also have had the same issue since the E10K uses the :6 same UltraSPARC II modules including SRAM that most of the other Sun servers use.     Regards  Andrew Harrisone Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2000 08:12:28 -0400/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)r* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist* Message-ID: <8qa9jc$okb$1@lisa.gemair.com>  * In article <39C87FC3.7CCA714E@uk.sun.com>,2 andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: >dJ >> If that is so, the current ecache problems likely come from Sun itself. > ? >The current ecache problems are caused by SRAM components and a  >Sun does not manufacture SRAM.  >y  @ How many times do you have to be proven to be lying here for you to stop saying it?  @ Who are we to believe, Andrew, the Idiot Architect, who has been? proven to be lying on so many occasions, or the Executive VP ofc? Sun, baring his soul to the Analysts with the very embarrassing ? news that Sun doesn't really have any idea what the problem is,"" even after years of working on it?   I quote said Exec VP Shoemaker:   D   According to Shoemaker, Sun hasn't been able to narrow the problemD   to any one specific cause. Sun believes the problems may have beenD   caused by a combination of factors, including defective componentsG   from one of Sun's suppliers, poor packaging of the memory chips on   a0   the system boards, and environmental factors.   I Yet, Andrew says with utter confidence that the cause is SRAM components.   M And, typical of Andrew, he blames a supplier (not Sun, who has responsibilitylI to test and qualify these parts).  Just like he blames all the many eBay  F failures on various partners, who are always nameless (must be another3 one of Sun's gags/NDAs at work).  Transparent lies.n  E >This problem is more obvious on E10K's because they have more CPU's  > >but is not isolated to them. Any other purchasor of the E10K < >would also have had the same issue since the E10K uses the 7 >same UltraSPARC II modules including SRAM that most of  >the other Sun servers use.  >r	 >Regards n >Andrew Harrison >Enterprise IT Architect   -Jordan HendersonS jordan@greenapple.com3   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:14:07 GMT0% From: hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net>c* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist0 Message-ID: <39C8D486.AA78E74B@bellatlantic.net>   Rob Young wrote: > _ > In article <39C5EFE1.E8781127@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:f > > Rob Young wrote:t > >> In article <39C0FC8F.72DD9A88@uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes: > >> > Rob Young wrote: w > >> >> In article <39BCB3DD.F5B832EB@uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:  > >> >> > Rob Young wrote: SNIPPED a bunch of stuff...f >         van Aman says: > M > http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-2752389.html?tag=st.ne.1002.srchres.ni- > R > "Sometimes the problem was ameliorated by lowering the temperature of the serverL > environment, but the problem still happened more often than specifications > should have permitted.". > F This is the line that caught my attention.  I had this nagging itch in the back of my memory cells.E To me this smells like a race condition in some critical timing area.eB I could be wrong, but my experience with hardware design revealed C that if you cooled things down a bit, slow chip problems went away.0  > This is exactly the thing that overclockers are doing today - # cool the chips and run them faster.h   Just a thought.s bobr   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:55:53 +0100 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist) Message-ID: <39C8CFF9.56AA5CC@uk.sun.com>n   Jordan Henderson wrote:x > , > In article <39C87FC3.7CCA714E@uk.sun.com>,4 > andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: > >.L > >> If that is so, the current ecache problems likely come from Sun itself. > >h@ > >The current ecache problems are caused by SRAM components and! > >Sun does not manufacture SRAM.a > >7 > B > How many times do you have to be proven to be lying here for you > to stop saying it? > B > Who are we to believe, Andrew, the Idiot Architect, who has beenA > proven to be lying on so many occasions, or the Executive VP of-A > Sun, baring his soul to the Analysts with the very embarrassing A > news that Sun doesn't really have any idea what the problem is,r$ > even after years of working on it? > 7 Jordan you are letting your desire to do Sun down cloud57 yor argument, you are in danger of taking the award form> the least well thought out posting on this newsgroup currently held jointly by Rob and Kerry.  ! > I quote said Exec VP Shoemaker:i > F >   According to Shoemaker, Sun hasn't been able to narrow the problemF >   to any one specific cause. Sun believes the problems may have beenF >   caused by a combination of factors, including defective componentsF >   from one of Sun's suppliers, poor packaging of the memory chips on1 >   the system boards, and environmental factors.  > 9 Well done yet again you repeat the article, and I repeat j the actual problem.n  9 We use a standard SRAM part in the ecache of the UltraII n: CPU's this SRAM has been supplied by two different vendors# who I am not at liberty to discuss.   ; We have found that the bits flip on the SRAM, but that theyn? don't flip by themselves, they flip because of external factorsr7 of which static is one of the most obvious culprits. Wei? know that reducing the incidence of static by proper datacenter-C management reduces the incidence dramatically of the bits flipping.   E We also know that changing the origional SRAM to a new and identical rB speced part from a different vendor also dramatically reduces the   incidence of the bits flipping.   < We cannot rule out other factors that may cause the bits to = flip because there are other factors appart from static that t> could cause this. However we know that reducing static reduces9 the bits flipping because customers who have followed thep= advice of our datacenter assessment team have found that they - are getting very much reduced failure rates. S  = This of course was in the first article posted to this group o< and was completely ignored by you and all the other OpenVMS 8 boosters allong with Metas comments because they do not  support your arguments.b  K > Yet, Andrew says with utter confidence that the cause is SRAM components.o >   > Yes and my statement is not out of line with any of the others made by Sun representatives.  O > And, typical of Andrew, he blames a supplier (not Sun, who has responsibilityeJ > to test and qualify these parts).  Just like he blames all the many eBayH > failures on various partners, who are always nameless (must be another5 > one of Sun's gags/NDAs at work).  Transparent lies.T >   ; No I han't said that, Sun sources the SRAM and I have in a  = posting to this group said that the SRAM issue is ultimately  5 Sun's problem, but that does not alter the fact that a it is a component issue.  > You would not for example blame Compaq for the Intel processor: bugs but Compaq were responsible for fixing the systems by replacing the Intel CPU's.  > Nor do I think Compaq would for example be likely to dish the = dirt on a particular supplier where the supplier did not want  the information made public.  7 You seem like Rob to be intent in trying to prove that 18 there is some sort of wicked Sun conspiracy. Ironically 3 the first conspiracy theory of this type, the eBay i5 one proved in fact to be a situation where Sun stood >3 much more to gain by not having an NDA because the 44 public airing of the actual causes of eBays problems+ would have shown that Sun was not to blame.   8 You dare to call me an idiot but again going back to the> eBay 22 hour outage, all the conspiracy theories, speculation ; about data corruption, hardware failures and all the other  4 FUD turned out to be total and utter rubbish either : knowingly (or lets hope) unknowingly being fed to this and; other groups in a vain attempt damage Sun. The facts at the09 time and the facts now available show that I was entirelyt; accurate about the fact that the eBay outage was not caused : by a failure in any Sun supplied or supported software or 	 hardware.   = Of course you did not call the FUDsters lying idiots I wondere7 why, perhaps a trawl through deja would be interesting j7 were you involved in the threads ? Remember anyone who n5 suggested that the outage was caused by Sun SW/HW has 8 in your terms been shown to be a lying idiot, your words& not mine and not words I would choose.       Andrew Harrisont Enterprise IT Architectd   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:23:43 GMTt% From: hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net>c* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist0 Message-ID: <39C8D6C6.C1C9E9FA@bellatlantic.net>   andrew harrison wrote:  snipped stuff to save bandwidth: > ? > Of course you did not call the FUDsters lying idiots I wonder 8 > why, perhaps a trawl through deja would be interesting8 > were you involved in the threads ? Remember anyone who7 > suggested that the outage was caused by Sun SW/HW hasn: > in your terms been shown to be a lying idiot, your words( > not mine and not words I would choose. >  > Andrew Harrisonm > Enterprise IT Architecto Andrew,c< You have made me wish that Carl Lydick was back to deal with= you properly.  Carl is not here, I am not able to emulate him 9 in the style he deserves, so I will have to do it my way.n= Andrew - I am aghast at you, the king of FUDster spin postingb< those words.  You persist in your approach to spin the truth; into an orwellian morass yet you give us a prime example ofo> why some mothers should eat their young AND reason to finalize retroactive abortion.  v/ro justbobt   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:42:37 GMTh/ From: Mike Price <mike.price@littlewoods.co.uk>o! Subject: Re: Telnet configurationU) Message-ID: <8qa7r9$b30$1@nnrp1.deja.com>e  F You could always define the command file as mentioned before and checkE the terminal type in it (telnet connections use TNA devices) and then ; display a different message for TNA device than for others?i   Hope that helpsb   Mike --B All opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:56:33 +0000.- From: SysAdmin <djesys.nospam@fsi.net.mapson>e! Subject: Re: Telnet configuration-. Message-ID: <39C8C211.57310F88@fsi.net.mapson>   Mike Price wrote:  > H > You could always define the command file as mentioned before and checkG > the terminal type in it (telnet connections use TNA devices) and then = > display a different message for TNA device than for others?s  : I don't think a file associated with SYS$ANNOUNCE (such asH "@SYS$MANAGER:ANNOUNCE.TXT") can contain anything executable, I'm fairly certain it's display only.   David J. Dachtera    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:31:53 +0100y- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>o! Subject: Re: Telnet configurationw) Message-ID: <39C8CA59.C29A924C@bbc.co.uk>l   SysAdmin wrote:u   > Mike Price wrote:M > >TJ > > You could always define the command file as mentioned before and checkI > > the terminal type in it (telnet connections use TNA devices) and then-? > > display a different message for TNA device than for others?H >.< > I don't think a file associated with SYS$ANNOUNCE (such asJ > "@SYS$MANAGER:ANNOUNCE.TXT") can contain anything executable, I'm fairly > certain it's display only.  J If it isn't then surely its a security hole you could drive something very large thru.    --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukt  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.u   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:01:18 -0400t2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)! Subject: Re: Telnet configuration L Message-ID: <rdeininger-2009001101190001@user-2iveabs.dialup.mindspring.com>  H In article <39C8CA59.C29A924C@bbc.co.uk>, tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk wrote:   > SysAdmin wrote:o > >s> > > I don't think a file associated with SYS$ANNOUNCE (such asL > > "@SYS$MANAGER:ANNOUNCE.TXT") can contain anything executable, I'm fairly > > certain it's display only. > L > If it isn't then surely its a security hole you could drive something very
 > large thru.t  B I must be missing something.  How would that make a security hole?   -- h Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.como   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:48:21 +0100i- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>p! Subject: Re: Telnet configuration-) Message-ID: <39C8DC45.51A7CDC3@bbc.co.uk>    Robert Deininger wrote:w  J > In article <39C8CA59.C29A924C@bbc.co.uk>, tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk wrote: >- > > SysAdmin wrote:e > > >e@ > > > I don't think a file associated with SYS$ANNOUNCE (such asN > > > "@SYS$MANAGER:ANNOUNCE.TXT") can contain anything executable, I'm fairly  > > > certain it's display only. > > N > > If it isn't then surely its a security hole you could drive something very > > large thru.r > D > I must be missing something.  How would that make a security hole? >   N Allowing a user to execute code before login is to me a hole. Ok, they have toN somehow deposit malicious code to onto the system and force it to be executed.  ? Maybe I am wrong and it would be secure as no input is allowed.-   Just interested.  -- 6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uku  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those of  MedAS or the BBC.r   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:40:27 GMT   From: paul_clark0308@my-deja.com Subject: TP_SERVER & DECnet OSIi) Message-ID: <8qa7n8$b24$1@nnrp1.deja.com>l   Help!!!r  G I'm trying to duplicate a live application on a standalone machine, I'mmC testing backup restores etc. The application is erroring with a CDDg2 error, 'directory not found' or something similar.  F On investigation it led us to the TP_SERVER not running, the TP_SERVER/ failed to start because it requires DECnet OSI.   A DECnet wasn't started because I don't really need it running on aeG standalone machine, when I start DECnet OSI it hangs, presumably trying-? to contact the DNS Servers. Tried configuring it to use a LOCAL  namespace without success.  E Any advise will be gratefully received, preferably before I throw thee% machine from the top of our building.'   Thanks,i Paul Clark.p mailto:paul.r.clark@eds.comm    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.e   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2000 14:13:31 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)# Subject: Re: TP_SERVER & DECnet OSIg( Message-ID: <39c8a9eb@news.kapsch.co.at>  L In article <8qa7n8$b24$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, paul_clark0308@my-deja.com writes:H >I'm trying to duplicate a live application on a standalone machine, I'mD >testing backup restores etc. The application is erroring with a CDD3 >error, 'directory not found' or something similar.f  7 which means the directory structure is not identical orD' a logical is missing on the new system.n  G >On investigation it led us to the TP_SERVER not running, the TP_SERVER 0 >failed to start because it requires DECnet OSI.  , Are you sure ? Never heard of this before...) Do you really need to use the TP_SERVER ?l9 (I disable it via $ DEF/SYS/EXE SYS$DECDTM_INHIBIT TRUE")d  B >DECnet wasn't started because I don't really need it running on aH >standalone machine, when I start DECnet OSI it hangs, presumably trying@ >to contact the DNS Servers. Tried configuring it to use a LOCAL >namespace without success.l   What is the problem ?K@ Did you enter all your needed nodenames in the LOCAL namespace ?7 Did you delete (or better rename) the *DNS*.NCL files ?aG Do you have sufficient quota limits to run DECnet-Plus (maybe some moreS 	(AUTOGENs are required) ?  F >Any advise will be gratefully received, preferably before I throw the& >machine from the top of our building.    Don't do this. Give it to me ;-)   -- n< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888>< FBFV/Information Services           E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netF <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     PSImail PSI%(0232)281001141::EPLANH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:33:49 GMTo' From: Paul <paul_clark0308@my-deja.com>d# Subject: Re: TP_SERVER & DECnet OSIn) Message-ID: <8qaebs$ir8$1@nnrp1.deja.com>o   Thanks for replying.  0 >>> Are you sure ? Never heard of this before...- >>> Do you really need to use the TP_SERVER ? = >>> (I disable it via $ DEF/SYS/EXE SYS$DECDTM_INHIBIT TRUE")i  E Neither had I, see if the following will help you understand, becausea I'm not that familuar with CDD.l  1 The following command is where it all goes wrong.b2       $ sort/spec=prc004.srt prc004.seq prc004.seq   $TYPE prc004.srt /cdd_path_name="gl_rec"o3 /condition=(name=dpind0recs,test=(gl_dpind eq "0"))h /omit=(condition=dpind0recs) /data=gl_dpind
 /data=gl_adpr  /data=gl_pcm /data=gl_fill1 /data=gl_fill2 /data=gl_data2 /key=gl_sort_key1n  @ I'm not exactly sure what the stuff above does but I'm told this command should work.   $ DICTIONARY OPERATORs CDO> SHOW DEFAULTl, %CDO-E-ERRSTARSESS, error starting a session( -CDD-F-STARTSESS, error starting sessionG -SYSTEM-F-TPDISABLED, the TP_SERVER process is not running on this nodes  C Which is when we found out that DECnet is required for TP_SERVER tol start.   Hope this helps you to help me.0  
 Paul Clark mailto:paul.r.clark@eds.comc    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.R   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:40:52 +0200r" From: "Hans Vlems" <hvlems@iae.nl># Subject: Re: TP_SERVER & DECnet OSIo( Message-ID: <8qahrp$b75$1@news.IAEhv.nl>  H IIRC TP_SERVER is a required component for Rdb(/Oracle) databases. SinceE CDD in turn relies on Rdb, the requirement for TP_SERVER makes sense.7J In a stand-alone machine it is quite useless. Before DECnet OSi, you could runsI DECnet "standalone". That did not need a license either. Might that solve  your problem? Hans6 paul_clark0308@my-deja.com heeft geschreven in bericht  <8qa7n8$b24$1@nnrp1.deja.com>... >Help!!! > H >I'm trying to duplicate a live application on a standalone machine, I'mD >testing backup restores etc. The application is erroring with a CDD3 >error, 'directory not found' or something similar.u >.G >On investigation it led us to the TP_SERVER not running, the TP_SERVER20 >failed to start because it requires DECnet OSI. >mB >DECnet wasn't started because I don't really need it running on aH >standalone machine, when I start DECnet OSI it hangs, presumably trying@ >to contact the DNS Servers. Tried configuring it to use a LOCAL >namespace without success.s >gF >Any advise will be gratefully received, preferably before I throw the& >machine from the top of our building. >  >Thanks, >Paul Clark. >mailto:paul.r.clark@eds.com >r >a' >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/t >Before you buy.   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:57:05 -0400 (EDT) 6 From: Horst Drechsel <ai05@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de>6 Subject: traceroute no more in TCPIP 5.0A / VMS 7.2-1?< Message-ID: <009F06AC.448BA4B5.5@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de>  5    Does anyone know if there is a replacement for thet6 traceroute image, which was available under UCX 4.2 as ucx$examples:traceroute.exe?  H    After an upgrade from VMS 7.1-1H1/UCX 4.2 to VMS 7.2-1/TCPIP 5.0A theJ original "traceroute" seems to have disappeared. There is only "tcptrace", which doesn't work here.  
    Thanks,              Horst       --M  ****************************************************************************a)   Horst Drechsel                         nL   Dr. Remeis Observatory                 drechsel@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.deL   Astronomical Institute                             Phone: +49-951-95222-15L   University Erlangen-Nuernberg                        Fax: +49-951-95222-22*   Sternwartstr.7, D-96049 Bamberg, GermanyM  ****************************************************************************o   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:15:34 +0100r2 From: Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.demon.co.uk>: Subject: Re: traceroute no more in TCPIP 5.0A / VMS 7.2-1?6 Message-ID: <39C8D496.1D62ECB1@BlueBubble.demon.co.uk>   Horst Drechsel wrote:S  7 >    Does anyone know if there is a replacement for theo8 > traceroute image, which was available under UCX 4.2 as > ucx$examples:traceroute.exe? > J >    After an upgrade from VMS 7.1-1H1/UCX 4.2 to VMS 7.2-1/TCPIP 5.0A theL > original "traceroute" seems to have disappeared. There is only "tcptrace", > which doesn't work here.  ( It's still there but under another name.  " $ traceroute :== $tcpip$traceroute  	 Roy OmondM Blue Bubble Ltd.   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Sep 2000 16:48:54 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman): Subject: Re: traceroute no more in TCPIP 5.0A / VMS 7.2-1?6 Message-ID: <8qappm$61c$4@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  k In article <39C8D496.1D62ECB1@BlueBubble.demon.co.uk>, Roy Omond <Roy.Omond@BlueBubble.demon.co.uk> writes:c :Horst Drechsel wrote:8 :>    Does anyone know if there is a replacement for the9 :> traceroute image, which was available under UCX 4.2 as  :> ucx$examples:traceroute.exe?p :>K :>    After an upgrade from VMS 7.1-1H1/UCX 4.2 to VMS 7.2-1/TCPIP 5.0A the 5 :> original "traceroute" seems to have disappeared...  ..) :It's still there but under another name.r :c# :$ traceroute :== $tcpip$traceroute   1   To get the various command symbols set up, use:c  *     @sys$startup:TCPIP$DEFINE_COMMANDS.COM  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:27:24 -0400l# From: John Vottero <John@MVPSI.com> : Subject: RE: traceroute no more in TCPIP 5.0A / VMS 7.2-1?D Message-ID: <C15945A9D9EFCF11BA8B08002BBF1CCC0CD816@berry.mvpsi.com>  L It's no longer an example, it's officially part of the product, relocated toG SYS$SYSTEM and renamed from UCX$TRACEROUTE.EXE to TCPIP$TRACEROUTE.EXE.e Just do:  & $ TRACEROUTE :== $TCPIP$TRACEROUTE.EXE   > -----Original Message-----? > From: Horst Drechsel [mailto:ai05@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de]t- > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 4:57 PM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como8 > Subject: traceroute no more in TCPIP 5.0A / VMS 7.2-1? >  >  > 7 >    Does anyone know if there is a replacement for theh8 > traceroute image, which was available under UCX 4.2 as > ucx$examples:traceroute.exe? > 6 >    After an upgrade from VMS 7.1-1H1/UCX 4.2 to VMS  > 7.2-1/TCPIP 5.0A the< > original "traceroute" seems to have disappeared. There is  > only "tcptrace", > which doesn't work here. >  >    Thanks, >              Horst >  >  >  > -- >  c@ > ************************************************************** > **************+ >   Horst Drechsel                          + >   Dr. Remeis Observatory                 p% > drechsel@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.dey> >   Astronomical Institute                             Phone:  > +49-951-95222-15> >   University Erlangen-Nuernberg                        Fax:  > +49-951-95222-22, >   Sternwartstr.7, D-96049 Bamberg, Germany >   @ > ************************************************************** > ************** >  >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:26:25 +0100o- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>u: Subject: Re: traceroute no more in TCPIP 5.0A / VMS 7.2-1?) Message-ID: <39C8F341.FA7EAC4D@bbc.co.uk>a   John Vottero wrote:a  N > It's no longer an example, it's officially part of the product, relocated toI > SYS$SYSTEM and renamed from UCX$TRACEROUTE.EXE to TCPIP$TRACEROUTE.EXE.u
 > Just do: >u( > $ TRACEROUTE :== $TCPIP$TRACEROUTE.EXE >o  L  and, if you still have systems on UCX and need some common code to set this up for you:s  B $ IF F$SEARCH ("SYS$STARTUP:TCPIP$CONFIG_CONVERSION.FLG") .NES. "" $ THEN' $ ! ... for TCPIP Services V5 and abovet# $   traceroute :==$TCPIP$TRACEROUTE   $   nslookup :== $TCPIP$NSLOOKUP $ ELSE $ ! ... for UCX 4.2 and below.< $   TRACEROUTE:==$SYS$COMMON:[SYSHLP.EXAMPLES.UCX]TRACEROUTE- $   NSLOOKUP == "RUN SYS$SYSTEM:UCX$NSLOOKUP"  $ ENDIFe   Regards0 --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uk   A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofe MedAS or the BBC.o   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:19:05 GMT / From: "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu>e# Subject: VAX -> ALP FORTRAN Problem ) Message-ID: <39C89D29.32CA651D@uiowa.edu>e  D I am trying to migrate a FORTRAN application from a VAX system to anB Alpha and have a question about shareable/writeable COMMON blocks.  B     The app has a "buffers" program of include files that are justC variable definitions, equivalences, common blocks, etc.  Here it iss completely:v  %         INCLUDE 'CPI_COMMON(BUFFERS)'r"         INCLUDE 'CPI_COMMON(MODE)'#         INCLUDE 'CPI_COMMON(TELEM)' &         INCLUDE 'CPI_COMMON(AH_BLOCK)'&         INCLUDE 'CPI_COMMON(DS_BLOCK)'&         INCLUDE 'CPI_COMMON(HP_BLOCK)'&         INCLUDE 'CPI_COMMON(SW_BLOCK)'&         INCLUDE 'CPI_COMMON(IC_BLOCK)'          INCLUDE 'CPI_COMMON(HV)'         END   /     The includes are from a Text (.TLB) libraryP  H     When this program is compiled on the VAX/OpenVMS v5.5-2 with FORTRANE v5.7-133 using the default compiler command and then linked with this 
 link command:      $ Link /Shareablee( it produces a 7000+ block EXE disk file.  G     When the same program is compiled and linked with the same commandse onH my Alpha/OpenVMS v6.2 with FORTRAN 77 X7.1-156 the resultant EXE file is only 10 blocks in size.e  F     The application programs that read the data from this common blockE program (which gets "INSTALLED /Writeable/Share") don't find any data0 and6 thus are non-functional.  D     Does anyone know if there are some extra compile/link qualifiers thatH I should be doing on Alpha that I have left out?  Anything else jump out as a suggestion?  G     NOTE: The INCLUDE text files are a tiny bit different on the Alpha.tG I re-arranged the order of the COMMON block variable list statements togG 'byte-align' the variables.  Since all the application programs includehE these exact files, it was then consistently modified everywhere, too.nE Though I have also experimented with the exact files on the Alpha andrE using "FORTRAN /Warnings=NoAlignment" as well as some different tests E with the "FORTRAN /Align=..." qualifiers.  All generate no differencel, in the output EXE file as far as I can tell.  
 Perplexed,
 Rick Dyson -- oH Richard L. Dyson                                    rick-dyson@uiowa.eduH  _   _      _____                http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/H | | | |    |_   _|   Systems Analyst                     O: 319/335-1879H | | | | of   | |     The University of Iowa            FAX: 319/335-17536 | \_/ |     _| |_    Department of Physics & Astronomy-  \___/     |_____|   Iowa City, IA 52242-1479e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:07:43 -0400 6 From: "S Paquin" <stephane.paquin@nospam.ispatnet.com>' Subject: Re: VAX -> ALP FORTRAN Problemo2 Message-ID: <A96y5.27889$Z2.397483@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  E     Are you using compiler directives in your code ? You are aligning J boundaries in the common but are you aligning on Alpha memory block also ?  I     I personnally use the following directive in my global section common1 declaration.  & CDEC$ PSECT/SOME_COMMON_NAME/ ALIGN=13  K     You could also use an option file to isolate the common block. I am not0G sure if this can solve your problem, but it sure is a step in the rightb	 directioni       Best of luck.        Stephane    8 Richard L. Dyson <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> wrote in message# news:39C89D29.32CA651D@uiowa.edu...EF > I am trying to migrate a FORTRAN application from a VAX system to anD > Alpha and have a question about shareable/writeable COMMON blocks. >oD >     The app has a "buffers" program of include files that are justE > variable definitions, equivalences, common blocks, etc.  Here it is 
 > completely:s >n' >         INCLUDE 'CPI_COMMON(BUFFERS)' $ >         INCLUDE 'CPI_COMMON(MODE)'% >         INCLUDE 'CPI_COMMON(TELEM)'b( >         INCLUDE 'CPI_COMMON(AH_BLOCK)'( >         INCLUDE 'CPI_COMMON(DS_BLOCK)'( >         INCLUDE 'CPI_COMMON(HP_BLOCK)'( >         INCLUDE 'CPI_COMMON(SW_BLOCK)'( >         INCLUDE 'CPI_COMMON(IC_BLOCK)'" >         INCLUDE 'CPI_COMMON(HV)'
 >         ENDs >a1 >     The includes are from a Text (.TLB) library: >OJ >     When this program is compiled on the VAX/OpenVMS v5.5-2 with FORTRANG > v5.7-133 using the default compiler command and then linked with thiso > link command:n >     $ Link /Shareable * > it produces a 7000+ block EXE disk file. >hI >     When the same program is compiled and linked with the same commandsn > onJ > my Alpha/OpenVMS v6.2 with FORTRAN 77 X7.1-156 the resultant EXE file is > only 10 blocks in size.u >.H >     The application programs that read the data from this common blockG > program (which gets "INSTALLED /Writeable/Share") don't find any datae > andA > thus are non-functional. > F >     Does anyone know if there are some extra compile/link qualifiers > thatJ > I should be doing on Alpha that I have left out?  Anything else jump out > as a suggestion? >-I >     NOTE: The INCLUDE text files are a tiny bit different on the Alpha.lI > I re-arranged the order of the COMMON block variable list statements tonI > 'byte-align' the variables.  Since all the application programs includeiG > these exact files, it was then consistently modified everywhere, too.pG > Though I have also experimented with the exact files on the Alpha andnG > using "FORTRAN /Warnings=NoAlignment" as well as some different testseG > with the "FORTRAN /Align=..." qualifiers.  All generate no differences. > in the output EXE file as far as I can tell. >o > Perplexed, > Rick Dyson > --J > Richard L. Dyson                                    rick-dyson@uiowa.eduJ >  _   _      _____                http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/~dyson/J > | | | |    |_   _|   Systems Analyst                     O: 319/335-1879J > | | | | of   | |     The University of Iowa            FAX: 319/335-17538 > | \_/ |     _| |_    Department of Physics & Astronomy/ >  \___/     |_____|   Iowa City, IA 52242-1479e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:07:16 -0400u, From: Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@compaq.com>' Subject: Re: VAX -> ALP FORTRAN Problemc8 Message-ID: <8irhssorldau4pr96tlks3ihsuouem5rkg@4ax.com>  4 On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:19:05 GMT, "Richard L. Dyson" <rick-dyson@uiowa.edu> wrote:t  E >I am trying to migrate a FORTRAN application from a VAX system to anrC >Alpha and have a question about shareable/writeable COMMON blocks.e  @ The method for creating a writeable, shareable image with COMMON/ blocks is different between VAX and Alpha.  SeeTE http://www.compaq.com/fortran/docs/vms-um/dfum029.htm#global_comm forr details.    - Steve Lionel (mailto:Steve.Lionel@compaq.com). Fortran Engineeringt& Compaq Computer Corporation, Nashua NH  6 Compaq Fortran web site: http://www.compaq.com/fortran   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:56:48 +0000,- From: ezzaoudi med <m.ezzaoudi@digitem.co.ma>r Subject: VAX VMS TO ALPHAe- Message-ID: <39C8D030.AFC16C68@digitem.co.ma>m   HiE I have a MV3100-80 with VMS 7.1 , Cobol 5.1-10 and Pathworks Advancede Server.a! I want to migrate to  Alpha DS20.o  ? 1- My Executable cobol programs can they run without problems ?f@ 2- Have I to recompil my sources programs for generating the new     executables programs ? 3- Pathworks Advanced Server :F     Can I download my users account base ( and rights) from the vax to the Alpha ?t   Yours    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 06:15:30 GMT1 From: Dirk Munk <munk@home.nl>, Subject: Re: what path does clustering use??' Message-ID: <39C85601.CE7E6CF9@home.nl>a   kparris@my-deja.com wrote: > ( >   hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam wrote:G > >   There is no such thing as a "SCSI cluster", and I personally wish B > >   that particular terminology never escaped outside of OpenVMS > >   Engineering. > I > In the early VMS development work in this area, it was anticipated thatmF > SCS communications would be implemented over SCSI interconnects.  InF > fact, a bit of host-to-host communications occurs in "SCSI Clusters"H > today -- when VMS boots, the hosts on a SCSI bus communicate enough toH > make sure each has the same device naming for a shared SCSI bus.  ThisF > is done by allowing the host SCSI adapter to be the Target of a SCSI4 > transaction, whereas it is normally the Initiator. > B > Presumably due to difficult technical challenges, this was neverG > extended to general host-to-host communications using SCS, either forc8 > parallel SCSI or for SCSI protocol over Fibrechannel.   D True, but Fibrechannel is not just SCSI of course. Fibrechannel is aF kind of network topology (just as ethernet is), and SCSI is one of theD protocols supported on Fibrechannel. But so is TCP/IP even if Compaq: does not support it yet over Fibrechannel. AFAIK Compaq isH considering/building SCS over fibrechannel, which seems the only logicalB thing to do to prevent a expensive double high performance networkE topology (FC + Gigabit Ethernet or so) if you want to build a clustere
 with FC.       > (Compaq noG > longer exercises the degree of control over hardware designs that DEC@G > did with CI or DSSI; it now has to pick from the available SCSI or FC I > adapters that other vendors make.  If those adapters lack a feature VMSrI > Clusters could really use (or the feature is there but it doesn't quitesE > work right, and no one else in the industry uses the feature), it'sm > tough luck.) > C > The original target for SCSI Clusters was the customer making theTH > transition from 1 standalone node to a 2-node cluster; the idea was toE > provide an affordable entry point while still providing many of theaI > advantages of clusters.  It was recognized at the time that there would-H > be some definite drawbacks in using industry-standard SCSI technology.I > But having to do without SCS-over-SCSI wasn't originally intended to beh > one of those drawbacks.eI > -----------------------------------------------------------------------fI > Keith Parris|Integrity Computing,Inc.|parris@decuserve.decus.org-nospamVH > VMS Consulting: Clusters, Perf., Alpha porting, Storage&I/O, Internals > ( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 12:28:55 GMTu- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>d& Subject: Re: Why are these files open?( Message-ID: <39C8AD85.E3CE728C@ohio.edu>  P As   JF Mezei  has stated in another response, the PID of all zeros indicates anV installed image.  The fact that you did not persuade INSTALL to admit to knowing about7 them constitutes, in my view, a shortcoming of INSTALL.-  T Hoff, is there any prospect for making INSTALL willing to default to all devices andK directories if you ask it to list an image by specifying only the filename?P  #                                 RDPA     bill robertson wrote:-  ' > Thank you for your reply.  Here goes:e >  > Hoff Hoffman wrote:  >cW > > In article <39C6B1D6.F25E118@pacbell.net>, bill robertson <wcr@pacbell.net> writes:tJ > > :On my 6.2 system, I do a sho dev/files for a particular disk, and see= > > :lots of executable files open by the system (000000)....e* > > :...the executables are not installed. > > > > >   Would this be an OpenVMS VAX or an OpenVMS Alpha system? >* > OpenVMS VAX (microVAX 3100)* > K > >   Specific examples of the names of some of these executables would be?  >  > $ sho dev/fil dka200 >eA > Files accessed on device xyz$DKA200: on 19-SEP-2000 13:51:13.67o > % > Process name      PID     File name-0 >                 00000000  [000000]INDEXF.SYS;1= >                 00000000  [RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SIGNON.EXE;1*= >                 00000000  [RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SELECT.EXE;1o; >                 00000000  [RLS_MTS_45.EXE]INQ_MAIN1.EXE;11 > etc. >0 > >rP > >   Would these image files assocuated with any particular product or package? >T6 > They're part of a third-party financial application. >BM > >   Are these images actually executables, or are they shareable images, ori! > >   COMMONs, or something else?u >iU > Far as I can tell, they're executables that are invoked from the application.  Theyt; > aren't run from the command line, or from a command proc.A >eN > >   Would these particular executables have once been installed (or mapped)? >hX > Not as far as I know.   They're not installed now, or don't show up from INSTALL LIST. >$L > >   Would this "particular disk" be a system disk, or an application disk? >a > Application disk.:   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:11:17 +0100a- From: Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>a& Subject: Re: Why are these files open?) Message-ID: <39C8B775.422BD5BC@bbc.co.uk>g   "Richard D. Piccard" wrote:o  R > As   JF Mezei  has stated in another response, the PID of all zeros indicates anX > installed image.  The fact that you did not persuade INSTALL to admit to knowing about9 > them constitutes, in my view, a shortcoming of INSTALL.s >sV > Hoff, is there any prospect for making INSTALL willing to default to all devices andM > directories if you ask it to list an image by specifying only the filename?o >a  E Well, install does have an, hmmm, intersting user interface, I agree,eF however its a lot easier these days with pipe, or use a temporary file$ like I used to in the pre-pipe days.  I Of course, if the node is in a cluster, the PID of all zeros can mean theoL file is installed on a different cluster node. SYSMAN is your friend in this case.Y   Regardsd   >m% >                                 RDPC >U > bill robertson wrote:R >R) > > Thank you for your reply.  Here goes:i > >  > > Hoff Hoffman wrote:s > >cY > > > In article <39C6B1D6.F25E118@pacbell.net>, bill robertson <wcr@pacbell.net> writes:PL > > > :On my 6.2 system, I do a sho dev/files for a particular disk, and see? > > > :lots of executable files open by the system (000000)....l, > > > :...the executables are not installed. > > >a@ > > >   Would this be an OpenVMS VAX or an OpenVMS Alpha system? > >  > > OpenVMS VAX (microVAX 3100)t > > M > > >   Specific examples of the names of some of these executables would be?e > >  > > $ sho dev/fil dka200 > >oC > > Files accessed on device xyz$DKA200: on 19-SEP-2000 13:51:13.67  > > ' > > Process name      PID     File name*2 > >                 00000000  [000000]INDEXF.SYS;1? > >                 00000000  [RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SIGNON.EXE;1o? > >                 00000000  [RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SELECT.EXE;1 = > >                 00000000  [RLS_MTS_45.EXE]INQ_MAIN1.EXE;14 > > etc. > >  > > >vR > > >   Would these image files assocuated with any particular product or package? > >s8 > > They're part of a third-party financial application. > >*O > > >   Are these images actually executables, or are they shareable images, or-# > > >   COMMONs, or something else?  > >1W > > Far as I can tell, they're executables that are invoked from the application.  Theyo= > > aren't run from the command line, or from a command proc.D > >cP > > >   Would these particular executables have once been installed (or mapped)? > >tZ > > Not as far as I know.   They're not installed now, or don't show up from INSTALL LIST. > >EN > > >   Would this "particular disk" be a system disk, or an application disk? > >l > > Application disk.d >e > --D > ==================================================================D > Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerD > piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesD > http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.uke  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofl MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------   Date: 20 Sep 2000 16:41:10 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)& Subject: Re: Why are these files open?6 Message-ID: <8qapb6$61c$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  X In article <39C8AD85.E3CE728C@ohio.edu>, "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> writes:U :Hoff, is there any prospect for making INSTALL willing to default to all devices and L :directories if you ask it to list an image by specifying only the filename?  G   I usually use INSTALL in conjunction with PIPE and SEARCH when I needfI   to search to see if an image is installed, but IIRC the questioner was  G   running a version too far back for that particular technique to work. /   (eg: List to a file, then SEARCH, of course.)L  F   It is probably (I haven't looked at the code) possible to extend theH   INSTALL utility to better handle partial file specifications -- yes, IG   would guess that this change is technically feasible.  (I do not have F   the cycles right now to add this, and I don't know that the INSTALL F   maintainer has the cycles either.  (It occurs to me that SDA should /   also handle the image list, but I digress...)n     N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:17:35 +0000a- From: SysAdmin <djesys.nospam@fsi.net.mapson> & Subject: Re: Why are these files open?. Message-ID: <39C8F12F.A715C1D5@fsi.net.mapson>   bill robertson wrote:r > ' > Thank you for your reply.  Here goes:f >  > Hoff Hoffman wrote:n > W > > In article <39C6B1D6.F25E118@pacbell.net>, bill robertson <wcr@pacbell.net> writes: J > > :On my 6.2 system, I do a sho dev/files for a particular disk, and see= > > :lots of executable files open by the system (000000)....e* > > :...the executables are not installed. > >l> > >   Would this be an OpenVMS VAX or an OpenVMS Alpha system? >  > OpenVMS VAX (microVAX 3100)  > K > >   Specific examples of the names of some of these executables would be?l >  > $ sho dev/fil dka200 > A > Files accessed on device xyz$DKA200: on 19-SEP-2000 13:51:13.67l > % > Process name      PID     File nameA0 >                 00000000  [000000]INDEXF.SYS;1= >                 00000000  [RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SIGNON.EXE;1,= >                 00000000  [RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SELECT.EXE;1 ; >                 00000000  [RLS_MTS_45.EXE]INQ_MAIN1.EXE;1  > etc. >  > >yP > >   Would these image files assocuated with any particular product or package? > 6 > They're part of a third-party financial application. > M > >   Are these images actually executables, or are they shareable images, ory! > >   COMMONs, or something else?A > U > Far as I can tell, they're executables that are invoked from the application.  Theyr; > aren't run from the command line, or from a command proc.: > N > >   Would these particular executables have once been installed (or mapped)? > X > Not as far as I know.   They're not installed now, or don't show up from INSTALL LIST.  # How does the system resond to this:m   $ SAY :== WRITE SYS$OUTPUT nC $ SAY F$FILE( "DKA200:[RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SIGNON.EXE;1", "KNOWN" )rC $ SAY F$FILE( "DKA200:[RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SELECT.EXE;1", "KNOWN" )oA $ SAY F$FILE( "DKA200:[RLS_MTS_45.EXE]INQ_MAIN1.EXE;1", "KNOWN" )   7 If each one returns TRUE, then the files are INSTALLed.i  bL > >   Would this "particular disk" be a system disk, or an application disk? >  > Application disk.n   David J. Dachtera2   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 01:34:29 -0400o* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>( Subject: Re: [JAVA] Adobe Acrobat Viewer- Message-ID: <39C84C65.CD286761@tsoft-inc.com>    Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: > O > 3.) I don't get ANY money for any of my VMS systems for a couple of years nowe8 >         So, commercial ware is out of every scope here  : So, shut them down.  You'll get one of 2 possible results.  P The powers that be will not see any problems, and will dump the VMS systems, and you.  K The powers that be will have their need for the VMS systems shoved up theirBG noses, or other appropriate parts of the anatomy, and re-consider theirC tight-wad ways.   O Oh, Ok, there is another possibility.  They just might send Bruno in to break ai few of your fingers.  E 1 out of 3 in your favor.  Not the best odds.  How lucky do you feel?i   Dave :-)   -- n4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:48:50 GMT % From: A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig)d( Subject: Re: [JAVA] Adobe Acrobat Viewer2 Message-ID: <39c877cf.1189610659@news.newsguy.com>  B On 19 Sep 2000 20:06 CST, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote:  * >A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig) writes...  D >}Although 1 and 2 seem solid reasons I did notice that the cheapest) >}sing;le license was only 150 dollars...- >}   >}-- >}Alan Greig >t3 >If that is so cheap, why don't you buy it for him?e >r; >$150 > $0. Therefore, if you have $0 you can not pay $150.t  E I would have thought it obvious that I was making the point that $150l> is such a small amount that it would escape any general ban onE software expenditure in most organisations There can be exceptions ofo	 course...   C In fact if I actually tried to go through our authorization process B for that level of expenditure I'd be told bluntly to stop being so stupid and just place the PO.X     --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.527 ************************