1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 21 Sep 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 528       Contents:. Re: Authorize and error message output channelC Re: BACKUP error: "-SYSTEM-F-BADATTRIB, bad attribute control list"  Re: CETS2000: Buses? Re: CETS2000: Buses? Re: CETS2000: Buses? Charron VAX  Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: DAT from VAX to Alpha  Re: DAT from VAX to Alpha ( Deleting 250,000+ files from a directory, RE: Deleting 250,000+ files from a directory, Re: Deleting 250,000+ files from a directory, Re: Deleting 250,000+ files from a directory Re: Double Your Downline Re: Duplex Printing / Re: FILESERV@WKU: Updated VNCviewer for OpenVMS  Re: Halon dump - a data point  Re: HSZ50 in Hobbyist Cluster  Re: HSZ50 in Hobbyist Cluster  Re: HSZ50 in Hobbyist Cluster  Re: HSZ50 in Hobbyist Cluster  Re: HSZ50 in Hobbyist Cluster  Re: LAT printer servers?' Re: LIB$FIND_FILE exclude method wanted  MULTIA + OpenVMS Re: MULTIA + OpenVMS Re: MULTIA + OpenVMS Multia and BA3500 RE: New CETS2000 workshops - scheduling question( Nothing to lose, $50,000 to Gain! -87397 Re: NTP with UCX 4.2 Orphaned batch job...  Re: Orphaned batch job...  Re: Orphaned batch job...  Re: Orphaned batch job...  Re: Orphaned batch job...  OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships # Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships # Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships # Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships # Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships # Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships # Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships # Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships 5 Re: Problems with the OpenVms web-based documentation ) strlen(), comparisons, unexpected results - Re: strlen(), comparisons, unexpected results - Re: strlen(), comparisons, unexpected results ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist  Re: TCPIP V5.0 complaints  Re: Telnet configuration Re: Telnet configuration Re: Telnet configuration Re: VAX VMS TO ALPHA Re: VAX VMS TO ALPHA Re: VAX VMS TO ALPHA Re: Why are these files open?  Re: [JAVA] Adobe Acrobat Viewer  Re: [JAVA] Adobe Acrobat Viewer  Re: [JAVA] Adobe Acrobat Viewer   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------   Date: 20 Sep 2000 13:51 PST ) From: rankin@eql.caltech.edu (Pat Rankin) 7 Subject: Re: Authorize and error message output channel / Message-ID: <20SEP200013512100@eql.caltech.edu>   J In article <39C8CC9D.CEFB465@bbc.co.uk>, tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk writes...E > I discovered a curious "feature" of authorize while making a script > > that needed to supress some warning messages from AUTHORIZE. [...] A > So, the error message is only supressed when BOTH sys$error and D > sys$output are redirected in user mode. How can this be? I thought" > they were separate I/O channels?  <      There's nothing special about AUTHORIZE is this regard; all of VMS works like that.   =      The $PUTMSG system service writes to SYS$OUTPUT and also < to SYS$ERROR when the two are different.  If the two are the' same, then only one write is performed.   2                 Pat Rankin, rankin@eql.caltech.edu   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:29:46 -0400 ( From: Jonas Lindholm <jlindholm@rcn.com>L Subject: Re: BACKUP error: "-SYSTEM-F-BADATTRIB, bad attribute control list"' Message-ID: <39C9567A.C93D3758@rcn.com>   0 I don't think BACKUP is supported for NFS disks.S The reason is that NFS mounted disks not have required files such as 000000.DIR and + INDEXF.SYS as backup need to get access to. O The NFS client simulate these files but BACKUP need probably get access to them  without using RMS.  	 /Jonas L.    Horst Drechsel wrote:   	 > Hi all,  > ? >    after a recent upgrade to OpenVMS 7.2-1 / TCPIP 5.0A on an I > AlphaStation 400 4/233 we get an error message when trying a VMS backup " > of an NFS mounted Linux PC disk: > Q > ===============================================================================  > $ sh dev dnfs3: /fu  > Q > Disk DNFS3:, device type Foreign disk type 7, is online, mounted, file-oriented  >     device, shareable. > P >     Error count                    0    Operations completed                71P >     Owner process                 ""    Owner UIC                     [SYSTEM]P >     Owner process ID        00000000    Dev Prot   S:RWPL,O:RWPL,G:RWPL,W:RWPLP >     Reference count                1    Default buffer size                512P >     Total blocks              311058    Sectors per track                    0P >     Total cylinders                0    Tracks per cylinder                  0 > P >     Volume label               "TOM"    Relative volume number               0P >     Cluster size                  16    Transaction count                    1P >     Free blocks                    0    Maximum files allowed          1000000P >     Extend quantity               16    Mount count                          1P >     Mount status              System    ACP process name            "DNFS1ACP"P >     Extent cache size              0    Maximum blocks in extent cache       0P >     File ID cache size             0    Blocks currently in extent cache     0P >     Quota cache size               0    Maximum buffers in FCP cache         0 > N >   Volume Status:  ODS-2, do not unload on dismount, file high-water marking,# >       write-back caching enabled. Q > ===============================================================================  > 3 >    The backup command yields the following error:  > ) > $ bac/log dnfs3:[000000...] tom.bck/sav ; > %BACKUP-E-OPENDIR, error opening directory DNFS3:[000000] 1 > -SYSTEM-F-BADATTRIB, bad attribute control list E > %BACKUP-E-OPENIN, error opening DNFS3:[000000]000000.DIR;1 as input 1 > -SYSTEM-F-BADATTRIB, bad attribute control list B > %BACKUP-W-NOFILES, no files selected from DNFS3:[000000...]*.*;* > I >    while any other file access operations on this nfs mounted directory H > do work normally. We did not have that backup error under the previous% > version OpenVMS 7.1 / UCX 4.2 Eco 1  > # >    Any hints, necessary patches ?  >  >    Thanks and greetings, > 
 >       Horst  >  >  > --O >  ****************************************************************************  >   Horst DrechselN >   Dr. Remeis Observatory                 drechsel@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.deN >   Astronomical Institute                             Phone: +49-951-95222-15N >   University Erlangen-Nuernberg                        Fax: +49-951-95222-22, >   Sternwartstr.7, D-96049 Bamberg, GermanyO >  ****************************************************************************    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:48:02 -0700 ! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com  Subject: Re: CETS2000: Buses? C Message-ID: <OF489E4B91.FF1DA424-ON88256960.0072052E@HEALTHNET.COM>   J I'm about 35 miles from the conference centre. I just walked to lunch, andD was passed by several busses. They are running, but I can't say what( percentage of a normal service there is.   Shane           H karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) on 09/20/2000 07:46:52 AM   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  cc:    Subject:  Re: CETS2000: Buses?    E In a previous article, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger,  VAXman-) wrote: - ->In article <GiDX1C6PGs+m@eisner.decus.org>, 3 kaplow_r@eisner.decus.org.mars (Bob Kaplow) writes: I ->>Some of you may have heard that there is currently a bus strike in LA.  The H ->>city's plans to use charter busses to replace some bus routes was met withI ->>the response that those drivers would honor the picket lines. Does any  one 7 ->>know if this will affect the shuttle buses for CETS?   F On the MTA's web page (http://www.mta.net) it says the municipal busesB (city) are still running normally. The MTA strike only affects theE county transit system. That's still going to put a giant crimp in the H ability to get anywhere via public transport. The loss of the red, green% and blue rail lines is going to hurt.   @ Their "Trip planner" is pretty cool. see: http://207.155.61.166/   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Sep 2000 16:43:58 PDT* From: abuse@flying-disk.com (Alan Frisbie) Subject: Re: CETS2000: Buses? ! Message-ID: <0HXS4XM51nlq@flying>   9 Since the symposium is over two weeks away, I think (as a 4 local resident) that the strike will be long settled6 before then.   They have been in negotiations all day,4 and progress is being hinted at.   There is a lot of2 political pressure (on both sides) to settle this.   --  B --  Alan E. Frisbie             Frisbie "AT" Flying-Disk "DOT" Com@ --  Flying Disk Systems, Inc.   Abuse "AT" Flying-Disk "DOT" Com   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Sep 2000 17:26:42 PDTT From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515) Subject: Re: CETS2000: Buses? 3 Message-ID: <YiKmxatJX8Ge@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>   H         Apropos the busses issue, can anyone confirm whether the shuttleH     busses are  scheduled  to  be  running  Sunday  and  Monday  for theH     pre-symposium seminars?  I'm _assuming_ they are because it would beH     a  real  snafu  if  they weren't, but, as  with  most  other  thingsH     CETS2000, it's extremely difficult to implossible to find out on the,     web site, let alone via e-mail.  Sigh...           -Ken --  M  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Edu :  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924:  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515N  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------B  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:27:46 +1200 9 From: "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@nnnoospam.met.co.nz>  Subject: Charron VAX/ Message-ID: <mWgy5.853$O7.21949@ozemail.com.au>   ( Anyone got this running on their pc yet?  % I've made it to the >>> prompt, but I    am not sure what to do next.    9 http://www.charon-vax.com/softresint/charon-vax/index.htm        cheers   Antony   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Sep 2000 19:46:51 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)  Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promo + Message-ID: <8qb47b$4nn$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>   - In article <39C851F2.3AC1F7B7@tsoft-inc.com>, -  David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  |>  R |> This is a nice warm and fuzzy idea.  However, I've had people in education tellS |> me that free VMS systems wouldn't get VMS in front of their students, and they'd # |> just load Linux on the system.     I Dave and I have had this conversation before, too.  I would be very happy H to load up a lab with VMS based Workstations.  I can't afford to, but ifI they were donated, I would gladly do it.  But it still begs the question; J "What will the students do with them?"  And this takes us back to the sameI thing we have been arguing here for months.  Where are the applications?? G Linux has them, {Free|Open|Net}BSD have them.  They can even be ported  M fairly easily to TRU64.  They may not be Office2000, but they can get the job K done and people use them  But where are equivalent applications for the VMS I environment??  So, even if I put up a lab of VMS Workstations I fear they M would serve as little more than X-terminals to get to various Linux/BSD boxes  scatterred around campus.   R |>                                 So, just like the prior question, got any ideasP |> on how to do this in a manner that would succeed?  I wouldn't be surprised toR |> see the systems become available, if Compaq had any guarantees (damn, that wordQ |> again) that they'd be used with VMS and students would get reasonable exposure 
 |> to VMS.  I I think the only answer is to take some of those Unix applications (and a H bottle of aspirin) and start porting.  Maybe the code is pretty bad, butH they work and people use them.  And if VMS is to take a bite out of thisJ market again, then you have to be able to do the same jobs on VMS that areH currently being done on Linux.  Otherwise, resign yourselves to the ideaI that the only exposure University students are going to get is to Linux,   BSD and (gaack) Windows.  J Maybe what Compaq needs to do is pick a couple of the tastier applicationsL and find a few schools they can throw some grant money at to do a few simpleM ports to prime the pump.  There is so much common code between Unix type apps M that most of the really bad code will be found in those early applications.   K Make documentation of the porting effort a requirement of the grant and you L could end out with a handbook bringing in even more in less time.  I am sureN there are people here who would be interested in something like this.  (I justQ walked down the hall and spoke with the Department Chair, and he confirmed that.) N We have warm bodies who could use summer work, especially in their discipline.R We have a mandatory projects course that would even make it possible for a studentN to apply this work for credit. I even have a research lab that could give up aK little space to support it.  Or, I could set up some of the machines in the K department's general use lab so more people would see the work in progress. J Lot's of potential here.  All the incentives are there.  All I lack is theM equipment and the funding.  So, I guess the ball goes back to Compaq's court. K Or maybe a group of companies with serious concerns about the future of VMS P could get together and fund a grant.  Or, we just go on as we have been debating( the future of VMS until it becomes moot.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:23:18 -0500 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>  Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promo O Message-ID: <E861E1ECB1C86916.9FFE666F4965477A.8DF82B91AD650D32@lp.airnews.net>    Bill Gunshannon wrote: > / > In article <39C851F2.3AC1F7B7@tsoft-inc.com>, / >  David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:  > |>T > |> This is a nice warm and fuzzy idea.  However, I've had people in education tellU > |> me that free VMS systems wouldn't get VMS in front of their students, and they'd # > |> just load Linux on the system.  > K > Dave and I have had this conversation before, too.  I would be very happy J > to load up a lab with VMS based Workstations.  I can't afford to, but ifK > they were donated, I would gladly do it.  But it still begs the question; L > "What will the students do with them?"  And this takes us back to the sameK > thing we have been arguing here for months.  Where are the applications?? H > Linux has them, {Free|Open|Net}BSD have them.  They can even be portedO > fairly easily to TRU64.  They may not be Office2000, but they can get the job M > done and people use them  But where are equivalent applications for the VMS K > environment??  So, even if I put up a lab of VMS Workstations I fear they O > would serve as little more than X-terminals to get to various Linux/BSD boxes  > scatterred around campus.  > T > |>                                 So, just like the prior question, got any ideasR > |> on how to do this in a manner that would succeed?  I wouldn't be surprised toT > |> see the systems become available, if Compaq had any guarantees (damn, that wordS > |> again) that they'd be used with VMS and students would get reasonable exposure  > |> to VMS. > K > I think the only answer is to take some of those Unix applications (and a J > bottle of aspirin) and start porting.  Maybe the code is pretty bad, butJ > they work and people use them.  And if VMS is to take a bite out of thisL > market again, then you have to be able to do the same jobs on VMS that areJ > currently being done on Linux.  Otherwise, resign yourselves to the ideaJ > that the only exposure University students are going to get is to Linux, > BSD and (gaack) Windows. > L > Maybe what Compaq needs to do is pick a couple of the tastier applicationsN > and find a few schools they can throw some grant money at to do a few simpleO > ports to prime the pump.  There is so much common code between Unix type apps M > that most of the really bad code will be found in those early applications.EM > Make documentation of the porting effort a requirement of the grant and youoN > could end out with a handbook bringing in even more in less time.  I am sureP > there are people here who would be interested in something like this.  (I justS > walked down the hall and spoke with the Department Chair, and he confirmed that.)yP > We have warm bodies who could use summer work, especially in their discipline.T > We have a mandatory projects course that would even make it possible for a studentP > to apply this work for credit. I even have a research lab that could give up aM > little space to support it.  Or, I could set up some of the machines in thelM > department's general use lab so more people would see the work in progress.TL > Lot's of potential here.  All the incentives are there.  All I lack is theO > equipment and the funding.  So, I guess the ball goes back to Compaq's court. M > Or maybe a group of companies with serious concerns about the future of VMS R > could get together and fund a grant.  Or, we just go on as we have been debating* > the future of VMS until it becomes moot.    ( Don't schools teach programming anymore?  H So far this discussion seems to be about teaching students to use canned@ applications and whether or not those applications exist on VMS.  G How about teaching students to write new applications?  One of the highrE points of VMS (at least for me) is the debugger.  I haven't found its, equal on other platforms.t  E With VMS you can have multiple students coding without worrying aboutp crashing the system.  F You also have extensive documentation and even have readable internals documentation.  E With the available (cheap) VAX and AlphaStations, you could even have @ systems programming classes that teach privileged mode code withH dedicated machines so that crashes don't hurt anyone.  Compare debuggingG NT kernel mode drivers with VMS device drivers.  Both are nasty, but ite> is much easier to use VMS's tools to figure out what happened.  D Also, if you get students programming on VMS, you might start seeingG these applications that people complain are missing.  (OK, so I have ank ulterior motive.  <grin>)e  G -----------------------------------------------------------------------e$ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com o   Fax: 817-237-3074r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:29:56 -0500f7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>u Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promo - Message-ID: <39C980B4.F6DDDC25@earthlink.net>    Chris Scheers wrote: [snip]* > Don't schools teach programming anymore?  6 My step daughter corrected me about this last weekend:  E "Computer 'Science'" students learn how to use "canned" applications.T  @ "Computer Engineering" students learn hardware, architecture and( programming, including o.s. development.   --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemsl http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged..   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 00:51:40 -0400l' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>g Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promon( Message-ID: <8qc3t7$d6l$1@pyrite.mv.net>  5 David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messagee' news:39C8508A.6E4EA5A2@tsoft-inc.com...a > Bill Todd wrote: > >e9 > > David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message + > > news:39C6DB2B.D2BF83AC@tsoft-inc.com...= > >= > > ...= > >=F > > > So, if you were in charge now, how would you get these reluctant software > > > vendors to consider VMS? > >nI > > Spend some serious money on VMS to demonstrate unmistakable corporate H > > commitment to a future those vendors might have an interest in being partJ > > of.  After so many years of lost opportunities and unmet expectations,! > > nothing else will do the job.  >t > Tell me something new.  ? Hmmm.  I thought you wanted an answer, not light entertainment.   :   We've been over the above, and I agree with you.  What'sG > missing are 2 parts of the puzzle.  Where and how to spend the money?   I It almost doesn't matter, from the viewpoint of getting people to believe L VMS has a future (though of course I have opinions about where it could bestK be spent from product and strategy standpoints):  if Compaq spent enough to F make its commitment clear (VMS fails, Compaq fails), that - plus VMS'sH existing strengths - should suffice to convince developers that VMS is a platform with a future.      WhatL > guarantees are there that anything will change, at least enough to justify the0 > spending?l  K None - about the same as the guarantees that Compaq won't go down the tubescC by continuing to blunder along as it has been:  seems like a bit of0K risk-taking might be in order.  But Compaq wouldn't have to go whole-hog to I make a splash:  any *significant* expenditure (as contrasted with currentgH efforts) would get noticed, and give Compaq at least some opportunity to evaluate its effects.    > K > I really hated to state the second question.  There are never guarantees.0 The L > only valid thing is to spend the money on things worth doing, which should be: > reward enough.  That still takes us back to question #1. >N1 > Some things, worthwhile things, are being done.   L But they won't make any significant difference, save for making existing VMS customers feel better.   - bill   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Sep 2000 11:12:40 PDT* From: abuse@flying-disk.com (Alan Frisbie)" Subject: Re: DAT from VAX to Alpha! Message-ID: <d8QYKsjH3KHb@flying>   . In article <39C8D086.D86386E6@digitem.co.ma>, / ezzaoudi med <m.ezzaoudi@digitem.co.ma> writes:   B > Can I read a DAT tape writed on VAX VMS in my ALPHA VMS System ?  5 In general, yes.   This assumes that the drives/tapes  are physically compatible.      ; If, for example, you have a TLZ09 on the VAX and a TLZ06 onl9 the Alpha, you will have a problem if you used compaction- (compression) or DDS-120 tapes.b  3 If, on the other hand, you used DDS-60 tapes and not! compaction, you can read them OK.a  9 By observing these rules I am able to move DAT tapes back*? and forth between Alpha and VAX VMS systems on a regular basis.    --  B --  Alan E. Frisbie             Frisbie "AT" Flying-Disk "DOT" Com@ --  Flying Disk Systems, Inc.   Abuse "AT" Flying-Disk "DOT" Com   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 00:43:01 GMTn5 From: "Larry D Bohan, Jr" <LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com> " Subject: Re: DAT from VAX to Alpha8 Message-ID: <h7misscp0m5aakma7aaiu8vc7bkj855q4n@4ax.com>  0 On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:58:14 +0000, ezzaoudi med! <m.ezzaoudi@digitem.co.ma> wrote:M   >Hi A >Can I read a DAT tape writed on VAX VMS in my ALPHA VMS System ?  >Thankse  ; Normally yes.   But I have seen cases where a tape created  ? by a certain DATdrive were (apparentally) only readable by that < same drive, and no others.   The assumption being that that 6 drive had a mis-aligned head, or something similar.     , Not a common occurrance, but it does happen.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 00:23:15 GMTo+ From: "Matt Jacobs" <mjacobs1@twcny.rr.com> 1 Subject: Deleting 250,000+ files from a directory : Message-ID: <Txcy5.16262$%h6.3622033@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>  H An errant process added 250,000+ small files to a single directory on my Alpha.  I I am using a single process to delete them (delete *.*;*).  The files arep, being deleted at the rate of 5,000 per hour.  L I cannot reformat the disk.  Does anyone have any suggestions on how to more quickly delete the files?t   TIA.       Matt Jacobs5   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 12:53:57 +1100T) From: "Mackay, Ian" <IMackay@nine.com.au>)5 Subject: RE: Deleting 250,000+ files from a directory1B Message-ID: <7517D41517E6D11189EB00A0C96B422A01D52D76@TCNHOFEXC01>  ' I would grab DFU off the Freeware disk.l7 DFU deletes files MUCH faster then the VMS delete does.aI I have deleted huge numbers of files off disks with DFU and the speed wasi
 awesome!!!I VMS shuffles all the files in a directory up as it deletes them and sincerH you are starting at the beginning it is a HUGE job to shuffle up 250,000 files.  K The only problem I have had with DFU was doing fragmentation checks when it2H exceeded the interrupt stack size. Since it uses the kernel stack of the< current process as the interrupt stack, I was advised to addL min_KSTACKPAGES=2  to modparams.dat and reboot. Haven't had a problem since.  
 Ian Mackay System and Network Manager Nine Network Australia     > -----Original Message-----2 > From: Matt Jacobs [mailto:mjacobs1@twcny.rr.com]- > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 10:23 AM  > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com,3 > Subject: Deleting 250,000+ files from a directoryt >  > ; > An errant process added 250,000+ small files to a single   > directory on myS > Alpha. > > > I am using a single process to delete them (delete *.*;*).   > The files areS. > being deleted at the rate of 5,000 per hour. > @ > I cannot reformat the disk.  Does anyone have any suggestions  > on how to more > quickly delete the files?- >  > TIA. >  >     Matt Jacobs- >  >  >    ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:21:17 -0400 (EDT)-" From: Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org>5 Subject: Re: Deleting 250,000+ files from a directory.G Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0009202120140.11528-100000@tuatha.sidhe.org>3  ' On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, Matt Jacobs wrote:i  J > An errant process added 250,000+ small files to a single directory on my > Alpha. > K > I am using a single process to delete them (delete *.*;*).  The files are . > being deleted at the rate of 5,000 per hour.  J Ouch. Delete them in reverse alphabetical order and things will go a *lot*F faster. There are a variety of command procedures kicking around to do/ this--check the deja archives for a few of 'em.B   					Dan   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Sep 2000 21:01 CSTT' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)e5 Subject: Re: Deleting 250,000+ files from a directoryM- Message-ID: <20SEP200021010257@gerg.tamu.edu>u  / "Matt Jacobs" <mjacobs1@twcny.rr.com> writes...mI }An errant process added 250,000+ small files to a single directory on my  }Alpha.o } J }I am using a single process to delete them (delete *.*;*).  The files are- }being deleted at the rate of 5,000 per hour.b } M }I cannot reformat the disk.  Does anyone have any suggestions on how to moret }quickly delete the files? }  }TIA.h }  }    Matt Jacobs  J The problem is that there can be no empty blocks in the directory file andH the file data is stored in alphabetic order base don the file name. OnceH you empty the first block, the rest are all shuffled back a block beforeI the next file is deleted. This delay is compounded by the way the cachingfK of the directory file is done or, more importantly, the way it *isn't* doneoL when it gets very large (this is supposedly corrected, or at least improved,G in the most recent versions of the filesystem - from your deletion rateoC you are probably at an older version). So all this shufling is doneiG directly with the file on the disk - disk to disk copies block by block : of the entire file, moving it forward one block at a time.  
 The solution?e  ! There seem to be a few good ones.   H The best is probably to use the DFU utility. It can delete everything inG a directory (and the directory itself) quite fast (I think it holds the H directory file open, goes through it deleting each file without updating@ the directory file, then closes and deletes the directory file).? This only works to delete everything in a directory - you can'teA keep anything. It is very fast. If you don't already have it, youi4 can get it off the freeware CD or the freeware site:= http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvms/freeware/freeware.htmlp  K Another thing that can go faster is to do a dummy backup to the null deviceeG using the /delete qualifier to delete them after the backup. The backupUF utility seems to manage this final deletion pass a lot faster than the< delete command does its work. So it would be something like:  + $ backup/delete the$disk:[the.dir]*.*;* nl:n  E Note that this will not initially delete anything - it will take timerF for the "backup to null device" pass, before the deletion pass starts.  E Or delete them in reverse order. This is actually a tad problematicaliE in and of itself, so the usual method is to break the file names into B groups via wildcarding and delete the groups in reverse alphabeticE order. Within each group it is alphabetic, but there are fewer blockse$ to shuffle each time one is emptied.  E For example, if the file name are all some fixed prefix followed by anA number (a scheme used for mail files, and commonly used for otherh? timestamped or temporary files) you could make a .COM file withs contents like:  ' $ define where the$disk:[the.directory]  $! $ delete where:prefix9*.*;*  $ delete where:prefix8*.*;*g $ delete where:prefix7*.*;*s $ delete where:prefix6*.*;*  $ delete where:prefix5*.*;*f $ delete where:prefix4*.*;*o $ delete where:prefix3*.*;*h $ delete where:prefix2*.*;*m $ delete where:prefix1*.*;*l $ delete where:prefix0*.*;*c  L In the directory file the "prefix9*.*" file data come after the "prefix8*.*"A file data, so as blocks are cleared in the directory file all thenF prefix8* through prefix0* file data in the directory stays put instead8 of being shuffled forward as the first group is deleted.  F This is still a lot of shuffling, so you might want to use more groupsK than this. If the file names are alphabetic in nature, rather than numeric,@ you can easily get 26 groups.n  G Doing things this way can easily increase the deletion rate by a factorAH of 10 or more. (It should be nearly proportional to the number of groups	 you use.).  H This allows you to specify groups that do not include sets of files that@ you need to keep (although a better solution to that might be toD temporarily move them elsewhere and delete everything that is left).  H If you have the DFU utility, or can get it, and can delete everything inG the directory then that is probably the best. Otherwise, you might wantaJ to try the backup method on a bunch of the files and see how fast it goes,I then try the reverse order by groups method on one group the same size asgE the backup method used and then use whichever is faster for the rest.eK Either of them is likely to be considerably faster than a plain old delete. E On several occasions I have used the "delete groups in reverse order"l method with good results.q   --- Carl   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Sep 2000 03:25:21 GMT  From: mustang@ucc.asn.au.invalid! Subject: Re: Double Your Downline-* Message-ID: <8qbv31$vfu$1@enyo.uwa.edu.au>   Leads@09733.com wrote:  - : YOUR DOWNLINE WILL DOUBLE BY NEXT MONTH !!!,  ! [chomp pink canned pork products]y  0 I grokked the subject as double your downtime...7 I thought someone was roasting Andrew Harrison again :)e   Cheers /davel  + ( Long time lurker and recent VMS convert )d -- >L / David Manchester <mustang @ ucc.asn.au> (UCC Wheel and Committee person) \L |       If Life hands you lemons today, smile and give thanks.             |L |     Then, when Life isn't looking, give him a quick knee to the groin.   |L \                              That'll learn him.                          /   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:05:08 +0000o- From: SysAdmin <djesys.nospam@fsi.net.mapson>i Subject: Re: Duplex Printing. Message-ID: <39C8FC54.5CFA68D0@fsi.net.mapson>   "MacMillan, Neil (nmcm)" wrote:t >  > Hi, F > Has anyone had success printing duplex to an HP8100 using the telnet > symbiont?  >         VAX/VMS 7.1  >         UCX 4.2o" > Thanks in advance for your help. >  > -Neil   > If it's working on your older HP's with the appropriate escapeE sequences, it should work just fine on the 8100s or any other HP withd support for that feature.s  D Note, however, that the duplexer may be an option and not a standard@ component of the printer you purchased or are about to purchase.   David J. Dachterau   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:22:34 GMTs- From: goathunter@goatley.com (Hunter Goatley)t8 Subject: Re: FILESERV@WKU: Updated VNCviewer for OpenVMS/ Message-ID: <39c90042.3089702@swen.process.com>l  F On 20 Sep 2000 16:42:41 GMT, DAVISM@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (Michael T.
 Davis) wrote:s   >fK >In article <8qai7g$141@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edut >(David Mathog) writes:e >aM >>In article <QsWQIvpst5H$@axp1.wku.edu>, goathunter@wku.edu (Hunter Goatley)t
 >> writes:@ >>>VNC333R1VMS011 (VNCviewer V1.1 for OpenVMS) is now available. >>I >>You had mentioned in an earlier post that you use VNCviewer to remotely I >>access PCs.  What piece of software do you run on the PC end to achievem >>this?  (URL please!) >i# >	For (practically) all things VNC:o >M: >                      http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/ >sF And then grab and install the VNC server for Windows (actually, it's a= package that includes the VNC viewer and server for Windows).i   Hunter ------9 Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/r: goathunter@goatley.com      http://www.goatley.com/hunter/   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:59:24 -0400 ) From: Richard <dr_vmsREMV@techieREMV.com>o& Subject: Re: Halon dump - a data point8 Message-ID: <d7uisssni1r3vf59a6qb08ospokhoapfuc@4ax.com>  " -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
 Hash: SHA1  . On Wed, 13 Sep 2000 20:39:17 -0400, Tim Shoppa! <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote:e  @ >A couple years ago we had a thread about Halon fire-suppressingE >systems used in computer rooms.   Through the school of hard knocks, 4 >I just learned first hand how such systems operate.  C We had the power shunt to our entire data center a few months ago. t> The tenants above us have a shower, which someone left on.  ItE overflowed and water dripped straight into a ceiling smoke detector. tC It instantly sent the fire system into a stage II alarm and shunted,A the power.  An on-duty operator was alert enough to hit the halon-+ abort switch about 3 seconds before a dump.-  D 16 OpenVMS systems, numerous NT systems, 8 Tru64 systems, and 8tb of( storage...only 4 hours to deadstart.  :)  
 - -Richard   -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE------F Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>  @ iQA/AwUBOcl5iT0Aaqse1c2oEQIHFACg0f4WepOi480RKw86yqpiB9RsqHYAoNzA H+MKZ6trcP1CcvfS9Tlp1LSZ =5VzNe -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----r   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:01:14 +0000g- From: SysAdmin <djesys.nospam@fsi.net.mapson>C& Subject: Re: HSZ50 in Hobbyist Cluster. Message-ID: <39C8FB6A.5C78BA98@fsi.net.mapson>   Carl Karcher wrote:a > ? > In a previous article, Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com> wrote:  > E > ->Don't know. V5.1 is quite old, though. I believe V5.4 is current.i > @ > Actually V5.7 is current - and the LAST release. The HS-seriesH > controllers are now considered "legacy" by Compaq and in a "RetirementJ > process". Support for all HS* controllers and software will end on April
 > 1, 2001.  
 HUH ???!!!  F The HSG's are just coming out! How can anything THAT new be considered "legacy"????  oI > ->> My last question at this time is what does the battery on the HSZ504 > ->> do, and is it vital? > ->K > ->It is for the writeback cache. I'm not sure if you can run without it -yF > ->check the documentation for a parameter like 'CACHE_POLICY' or so. > D > It's vital for RAID and mirror sets. The CACHE_POLICY only affectsC > what happens when the battery is charging. When batteries are not2B > charged at all, CACHE_POLICY doesn't much matter. With unchargedI > batteries, you can run only single disk drives (JBOD's) - RAID sets andd > Mirror sets won't function.   G ...unless you set CACHE_UPS which tells HSOF to ignore the state of the D cache battery. CACHE_UPS is not recommended, IMO, even if you have aF UPS. One of my sites just had a brief UPS failure and the saving grace was the cache batteries.   David J. Dachterat   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:57:19 GMTl2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>& Subject: Re: HSZ50 in Hobbyist Cluster6 Message-ID: <Pw9y5.526$F93.206653@typhoon.aracnet.com>  & Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com> wrote:F >> Now, can I plug any of the above systems into the HSZ50's?  LookingE >> through the available documentation I was able to find on Compaq'scH >> FTP site I see that the only supported system is the DEC 3000 (thoughG >> somehow I don't think the 300LX is intended to be plugged into one).sF >> My preference is either the AS200 or AS500, which ever is used will: >> most likely have the Narrow SCSI PCI card placed in it.  I > The HSZ50 controller module has a fast-wide-differential SCSI interfacesF > with a HD68 connector. You either need a DWZZ-something converter or' > a different HBA (KZPSA-BB, KZPBA-CB).   I Hmmm, the manual lists the following as being supported under OpenVMS foroK the HSZ50; KZTSA, KFTIA, PMAZC, KZMSA, KZPAA, KZPSA, and KZPBA.  Unless I'mwF mistaken the KZPAA is a narrow card, AND what I've got installed in myL AlphaStation 500/333, however, the manual says this is only for AlphaServers 1000/2000/2100 Systems.   F >> It looks like the HSZ50's have the HSOF V5.1 software on the PCMCIAH >> cards.  Are there any layered products or License PAK's needed on the >> VMS Box?n   > No.   J Amazing!  That's a relief!  Of course it sounds like I'll probably need to? dig up batteries if I want to be able to use the cool features.e  E I gather that if I just run it as JBOD I'd have disks such as DKB101,0I DKB102, DKB201, DKB202?  Of course what I really want is to be able to doT the RAID and striping.   			ZaneQ   ------------------------------   Date: 20 SEP 2000 18:46:34 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)& Subject: Re: HSZ50 in Hobbyist Cluster6 Message-ID: <20SEP00.18463412@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>   I said:t  > Actually V5.7 is current - and the LAST release. The HS-seriesF controllers are now considered "legacy" by Compaq and in a "RetirementH process". Support for all HS* controllers and software will end on April 1, 2001.  E In a previous article, SysAdmin <djesys.nospam@fsi.net.mapson> wrote:KH ->The HSG's are just coming out! How can anything THAT new be considered ->"legacy"????  H Right. I failed to include a bit more context of the letter from Compaq:@ Specifically it's the "HS*30,40,50 and RA410/450" being retired.   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:16:10 GMT-( From: Jay Olson <jjo@triton.com.no.spam>& Subject: Re: HSZ50 in Hobbyist Cluster1 Message-ID: <39C9352E.D32CE0B@triton.com.no.spam>    Carl Karcher wrote:5 > 6 > Right. I failed to include a bit more context of the > letter from Compaq:d9 > Specifically it's the "HS*30,40,50 and RA410/450" being 
 > retired.  D Hopefully, that means the HSZ22 in the Raid Array 3000 (RA3000) willG still be supported. I am thinking of buying one of these, and I hope itp" is not obsolete before it arrives.  ( 	- Jay Olson (jjo "at" triton "dot" com) 	Triton Software Group LLC   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:22:54 -0500t7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>e& Subject: Re: HSZ50 in Hobbyist Cluster- Message-ID: <39C970FE.90AE1ADA@earthlink.net>:   Carl Karcher wrote:s > 	 > I said:r > @ > Actually V5.7 is current - and the LAST release. The HS-seriesH > controllers are now considered "legacy" by Compaq and in a "RetirementJ > process". Support for all HS* controllers and software will end on April
 > 1, 2001. > G > In a previous article, SysAdmin <djesys.nospam@fsi.net.mapson> wrote:nJ > ->The HSG's are just coming out! How can anything THAT new be considered > ->"legacy"???? > J > Right. I failed to include a bit more context of the letter from Compaq:B > Specifically it's the "HS*30,40,50 and RA410/450" being retired.  F Presumably, then, HSZ70, HSJ70 and HSG80 will continue to be supported well beyond that date.  = I.e., not "all HS* controllers and software" will be retired.U  " *Whew* *THAT* was a heart-stopper!   -- d David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systemss http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/o  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.t   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 23:16:45 GMTn" From: ltx_tech_support@my-deja.com! Subject: Re: LAT printer servers?k) Message-ID: <8qbggb$ttd$1@nnrp1.deja.com>-   Hi Paul,  B My name is Matt Newton.  I'm with Lantronix Technical Support.  MyG company has been building servers that are compatible with LAT for over H a decade now.  Check us out on the Web at www.Lantronix.com.  Or give usH a call at 1-800-422-7044.  That's the technical support number.  We'd be' happy to answer any questions you have.d   Thanks,( Matt Newton. Lantronix Technical Suppport    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 07:41:32 +0800 - From: David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com>J0 Subject: Re: LIB$FIND_FILE exclude method wanted+ Message-ID: <39C94B2C.E1144A1C@bigpond.com>E   Robert Deininger wrote:a > q > In article <39C88080.5F25905E@remove.sabre.com>, Arlen Williams <remove.arlen.williams@remove.sabre.com> wrote:0 >  > > Erik Ahlefeldt wrote:u > > >pP > > >  I have a program that uses LIB$FIND_FILE to return filenames that match aS > > >  wildcarded filename string. I would like to be able to exclude certain fileseS > > >  from the search in the same way the DCL DIRECTORY command /EXCLUDE qualifier R > > >  does. My current approach is to do a separate LIB$FIND_FILE on the excludedQ > > >  filename string and then match the two sets of results - this looks like aiR > > >  horrible kludge. Is there a better way to do this? Anybody know how the DCL2 > > >  commands like DIRECTORY and SEARCH do this? > > >  Erik Ahlefeldt.I > > You could use str$match_wild() on the resultant list items to do your. > > own excludes.  > N > str$match_wild is a good idea, but it doesn't appear to handle all the cases# > that DIR/EXCLUDE does.  Consider:A > ' > $ dir [a...]*.dir/exclude=[a.b*...c*]e > N > str$match_wild knows the * and % wildcards, but doesn't appear to know about > ... in a directory spec. > > > The RMS services know about (at least) 4 kinds of wildcards: > 1. * > 2. % > 3. ... in a directory  > 4. search list logical names > I > (But it seems the last one doesn't work with DIR/EXCLUDE, which doesn'to( > allow a device name in the file spec.) > @ > I think there is a higher intelligence at work in DIR/EXCLUDE. >  > -- > Robert Deininger > rdeininger@mindspring.comp  F In the "OpenVMS Utility Routines Manual" (this is on the V7.2 Doc CD),C chapter 5 details the UTIL$CQUAL_* (Common File Qualifier Routines)s& which are probably what you are after.F I haven't tried using them yet but a number of uses spring to mind for  when I have some time to play...   -- n Regards, Dave.uI -------------------------------------------------------------------------oI David B Sneddon (dbs)  OpenVMS Systems Programmer   dbsneddon@bigpond.com I DBS software at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htmyI "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" Lennond   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:46:29 -0300e) From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.bra Subject: MULTIA + OpenVMShL Message-ID: <OF70E5CA14.5E1A2715-ON83256961.000995AB@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>  I Is anyone  using MULTIA + OpenVMS ? I am collecting some information overaF the net and it sounds a good machine ! I know OpenVMS is not supported underp5 OpenVMS by Compaq but it costs only US$ 60,00 (???) !m  ) Compaq should relaunch this machine !!!!!d  
 Fabio Cardosot Analista de Suportes   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:32:46 -0400l From: stan@stanq.com Subject: Re: MULTIA + OpenVMSs- Message-ID: <39C93B0E.8597.B6A5E14@localhost>i  K > Is anyone  using MULTIA + OpenVMS ? I am collecting some information overoH > the net and it sounds a good machine ! I know OpenVMS is not supported > underu7 > OpenVMS by Compaq but it costs only US$ 60,00 (???) !   C I have 2 Multias clustered together.  The boxes are cheap, but the iE memory is not.  They also stop working once in a while, which is why  # I have 2 spares sitting on a shelf.h  . They're a cheap way to get started with Alpha.     --Stan  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671x1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147o= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comy   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 02:59:50 GMTi2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> Subject: Re: MULTIA + OpenVMSw6 Message-ID: <GQey5.560$F93.211177@typhoon.aracnet.com>  * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:K > Is anyone  using MULTIA + OpenVMS ? I am collecting some information overwH > the net and it sounds a good machine ! I know OpenVMS is not supported > undere7 > OpenVMS by Compaq but it costs only US$ 60,00 (???) !e  + > Compaq should relaunch this machine !!!!!   L I think a couple people have managed to get it running OpenVMS.  However, itK is not that great of a system.  While its formfactor is nice it is given to K heat problems, and it is one of the slowest, if not the slowest Alphas everoL made.  If you can find one for $60, beware it almost definitly will not haveJ RAM, and that's going to cost a lot.  You'll need a minimum of 64MB of RAM to run OpenVMS on it.i  L Personally I'd recommend the Turbo Channel DEC3000/300LX before a Multia forE running OpenVMS.  While it's only 125Mhz the 300LX is a pretty snappysI feeling machine when it's got enough RAM in it (OK, got to admit I've noth  tried running DECwindows on it).   			Zanee   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:24:55 -0500u/ From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>e Subject: Multia and BA350tO Message-ID: <080F6A501D3B9050.3856980AA157592F.E0791E8CF381CA3F@lp.airnews.net>   ' I know this is way unsupported, but....f  8 Has anyone gotten a BA350 chassis to work with a Multia?  H I got it to recognize the drives once, but after I turned everything offC and back on, I haven't been able to get it to happen again.  <sigh>   H One thing that I noticed is that the SHELF_OK status light does not comeE on when attached to the Multia unless I remove the "SHELF_OK-external H cable" jumper from the backplane.  (Is this jumper documented anywhere? 8 My BA350 manual [EK-350SA-UG-001] does not document it.)  H The Multia does work with various other external SCSI drives I have.  It3 just doesn't work with the BA350.  Any suggestions?o   Thanx!  G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074a   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:32:33 -0400   From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com9 Subject: RE: New CETS2000 workshops - scheduling questionL4 Message-ID: <C2256960.00703115.00@jklh21.valmet.com>  7 I just received this, and it is not the first addendum. 8 As I understand the scheduler, I must give up my current; hands-on registration in order to register for one of theses; "new" sessions (one to a registrant).  Now what if I decides< that I want my original back (say the new one is full by the= time I get around to trying to add it) and the old one is now & not available.  Am I just out of luck?    E I guess I'm asking if there is a way to see these one-to-a-registrant C sessions in a matrix showing which ones are still available (countst" of openings would be even better).   >h * CETS 2000 Communication *0  N This message was automatically generated.  Please do not reply to this message as the account is unattended.   O Several new hands-on workshop and breakout session offerings have been added toiL the CETS 2000 agenda.  For your convenience, the new offerings are described below: [List follows]   <g   ------------------------------  + Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:40:22 -0700 (PDT)e From: 11951.JWorden@zianet.com1 Subject: Nothing to lose, $50,000 to Gain! -87397M- Message-ID: <0G1700C77U2SP8@mx.west.saic.com>a  > Before you  hit the delet button read on.  You will be amazed!  > YES! YOU really can earn $50,000 in 90 days with a little hard= work and the "how to" reports available through this program.r? The miracle is that this email marketing plan only costs $20 ton' get started ($5 each for four reports).t  > Why not take the time now to read this letter, order your four9 reports and get started on your way to financial freedom?t  1                            MAKE YOUR OWN FUTURE!!c  0                            WORK YOUR OWN HOURS!!  ?           WORK PART-TIME... WORK FULL-TIME... WORK FROM HOME...h  :    >DON'T DELETE !! DON'T DELAY!! PRINT!! READ!! THEN READ
 AGAIN!!!<<  7 =======================================================G2 *** Print This Letter Now For Future Reference ***  4 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$  < Every state in the USA allows you to recruit new multi-level business< partners, and we offer a product for EVERY dollar sent. YOUR ORDERS COME BY9 MAIL AND ARE FILLED BY E-MAIL, so you are not involved in@ personal selling.G6 You do it privately in your own home, store or office.   This is how it works:   & 1.  Save this letter to your computer.  > 2. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if youu don't order them).  B         For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU AREA         ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, YOUR NAME & RETURN ADDRESSm
 (in case of ahB         problem) to the person whose name appears on the list next to the         report.r  @ MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS ON YOUR ENVELOPE IN CASE OF ANY MAIL	 PROBLEMS!e  B         When you place your order, make sure you order each of the
 four reports.a  C         Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of thes
 four reports.yA         Save them on your computer so they will be accessible fort> you to send to  the 1,000's of people who will order them from you.  @         IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next to>         each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way
 other than is-B         instructed below in steps "3" through "7" or you will loseE out on the      majority of your profits. Once you understand the waye; this works, you'll      also see how it doesn't work if youD
 change it.  C         Remember, this method has been tested, and if you alter it,r it will nots
         work.d  A 3. After you've ordered the four reports, go to your copy of thisl? letter (on your computer) and remove the name and address underL> REPORT #4. This person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their $50,000!e  @ 4. Move the name and address under REPORT #3 down to REPORT # 4.  @ 5. Move the name and address under REPORT #2 down to REPORT # 3.  @ 6. Move the name and address under REPORT #1 down to REPORT # 2.  6 7. Insert your name/address in the REPORT #1 position.  < Please make sure you copy every name and address ACCURATELY!  > 8. Save this modified letter, including the new list of names, and save? it to your computer. Make NO changes to the Instruction portiont of thisf letter.n  > 9.  Study each report you have received by email from the four people you sent $5.n  < 10.  Send this modified letter via email to potential buyers: using what you learned in the reports about bulk emailing.  A To assist you with marketing your business on the internet, the 4u reports 7 you purchase will provide you with invaluable marketingt information whicha= includes how to send bulk e-mails, where to find thousands ofe freeA classified ads and much, much more such as How to obtain free webeA sites, how to obtain top rankings in search engines for your web--= site, how to send bulk e-mail into AOL and Compuserve, how toZ8 market your products on newsgroups, free classified ads,; electronic malls,bulletin boards, banner ads and much more.y  8 THERE ARE TWO PRIMARY METHODS OF BUILDING YOUR BUSINESS:   METHOD #1: SENDING BULK E-MAIL  < Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and we'llw> assume you and all those involved send out only 2,000 programs& each. (The reports will tell you how.)  < Let's also assume that the mailing receives a 0.5% response. Using a good> list the response could be much better. Also, many people will send out7 hundreds of thousands of programs instead of 2,000. But  continuing with this@ example, you send out only 2,000 programs. With a 0.5% response, that is.@ only 10 orders for REPORT #1. Those 10 people respond by sending	 out 2,000K; programs each for a total of 20,000. Out of those 0.5%, 100u people respondA and order REPORT #2. Those 100 mail out 2,000 programs each for ad total ofA 200,000. The 0.5% response to that is 1,000 orders for REPORT #3.i Thosed= 1,000 send out 2,000 programs each for a 2,000,000 total. Theo
 0.5% responser> to that is 10,000 orders for REPORT #4. That's 10,000 $5 bills for you. CASH!!!o  A Your total income in this example is $50 + $500 + $5,000+ $50,000c for aK total of $55,550!!!V  ? REMEMBER FRIEND, THIS IS ASSUMING 1,990 OUT OF THE 2,000 PEOPLEd YOU MAIL TOr2 WILL DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AND TRASH THIS PROGRAM!  A DARE TO THINK FOR A MOMENT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF EVERYONE, OR HALFD SENT OUT" 100,000 PROGRAMS INSTEAD OF 2,000.  @ Believe me, many people will do just that, and more! By the way,	 your costr< to participate in this is practically nothing. You obviously already have an:* internet connection and e-mail is FREE !!!  A REPORT #2 will show you the best methods for bulk e-mailing, tell 	 you where4> to obtain free bulk e-mail software and where to obtain e-mail lists.  , METHOD #2 - PLACING FREE ADS ON THE INTERNET  ? 1. Advertising on the 'Net is very, very inexpensive, and theres are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise.  ; Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well itd
 works. Assumep@ your goal is to get ONLY 10 people to participate.(Placing a lot? of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger response.)i8 Also assume that everyone else in gets ONLY 10 people to participate.  < Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below.  . 1st level-your 10 members with $5 .........$50  8 2nd level-10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100).......$500  7 3rd level-10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000) $5,000.  8 4th level-10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10k) $50,000  . THIS TOTALS ---------------------------$55,550  > Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit@ 10 people each. Think for a moment what would happen if they got	 20 people(< to participate! Most people get 100's of participants! THINK	 ABOUT IT!n  ? For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them thej report they  ordered. THAT'S IT!o  . ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS!A This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR namea ande@ address on it, will be prompt because they can't advertise until they receive the report!E  * ------------------------------------------  ' PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW:e  6 ______________________________________________________  = REPORT #1 "The Insider's Guide to Advertising for Free on thes	 Internet"    ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:n   J.L. Worden  2200 Holiday #25 Las Cruces, NM 880053 ___________________________________________________>  < REPORT #2 "The Insider's Guide to Sending Bulk E-mail on the	 Internet"o   ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:?   P.J. VadneyI 652 Wood Violet Lane Sun Prairie, WI 53590l6 ______________________________________________________  ? REPORT #3 "The Secrets to Multilevel Marketing on the Internet"d   ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:e   K.R. Tropics P.O. Box 89-3042 Mililani, Hawaii 967894 ____________________________________________________  = REPORT #4 "How to become a Millionaire utilizing the Power ofy
 Multilevel Marketing and the Internet"i   ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:e  
 David Rollins  400 W. Baseline Rd. lot # 171m Tempe, AZ 85283*2 __________________________________________________    ******* TIPS FOR SUCCESS *******  ; * TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and.
 follow the directions accurately.  = * Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them  when the orders start coming in because:,  < When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/report.p  < * ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.  @ * Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the6 instructions exactly, your results WILL BE SUCCESSFUL!  > * ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED!  ' ******* YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES *******l  2 Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success:  > If you don't receive 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue, advertising or sending e-mails until you do.  = Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100-
 orders for@ REPORT #2. If you don't, continue advertising or sending e-mails	 until youe do.b  @ Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX,@ because the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue to< roll in!   THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:  A Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed ink
 front of aA DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watchingr whichi$ report people are ordering from you.  = If you want to generate more income, send another batch of e-e mails or@ continue placing ads and start the whole process again! There is no limit to 0 the income you will generate from this business!  6 Before you make your decision as to whether or not you participate in this $ program. Please answer one question.    DO YOU WANT TO CHANGE YOUR LIFE?  > If the answer is yes, please look at the following facts about
 this program:d  < 1. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO PRODUCE!  < 2. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO SHIP!t  @ 3. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT WHICH DOES NOT COST YOU ANYTHING TO
 ADVERTISE!  ? 4. YOU ARE UTILIZING THE POWER OF THE INTERNET AND THE POWER OFa MULTI-LEVEL 8 MARKETING TO DISTRIBUTE YOUR PRODUCT ALL OVER THE WORLD!  ? 5. YOUR ONLY EXPENSES OTHER THAN YOUR INITIAL $20 INVESTMENT ISe
 YOUR TIME!  @ 6. VIRTUALLY ALL OF THE INCOME YOU GENERATE FROM THIS PROGRAM IS PURE PROFIT!   . 7. THIS PROGRAM WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER.< ************************************************************  8 ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM!   NOW IS THE TIME FOR YOUR TURN   ' DECISIVE ACTION YIELDS POWERFUL RESULTSs  7 =======================================================s  7 PLEASE NOTE: If you need help with starting a business,*
 registering au@ business name, learning how income tax is handled, etc., contact
 your local> office of the Small Business Administration (a Federal agency)A 1-(800)827-5722 for free help and answers to questions. Also, the- Internal@ Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and free seminars aboute? business tax requirements. Your earnings and results are highly  dependant on; your activities and advertising. This letter constitutes noa
 guarantees@ stated nor implied. In the event that it is determined that this letter@ constitutes a guarantee of any kind, that guarantee is now void.1  If you have any question of the legality of thisM letter contact@ the Office of Associate Director for Marketing Practices Federal Tradey: Commission Bureau of Consumer Protection in Washington DC.  7 =======================================================n  A This letter is sent IAW Bill s.1618 TITLE III passed by the 105th  US; Congress and is based on a listing of persons who expresseda interest in 8 recieving information on proven successful internet home businesses.   ; ***********************************************************L  ; If this message has reached you in error, please accept our 
 apologies.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:25:17 +1200e9 From: "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@nnnoospam.met.co.nz>o Subject: Re: NTP with UCX 4.2m/ Message-ID: <wCby5.640$O7.18456@ozemail.com.au>e  7 We've got it working here with the same version and 7.1e  C WOn't be upgrading (again) to 5.0a until we can get some assurancesy? about NFS. That aside, the rest of the machines on 5.0a seem too be working a whole lot better.  A You need 5.0a if you have any linux boxes that telnet to your vms = hosts. We found that each telnet session would use 30% of the F cpu, therefore 3 telnets, would have your whole cpu all to themselves.    	 any help?-   antony    ? "Mike Tock" <hiding_me@don't_spam.hotmail.com> wrote in messagea$ news:8qa6sa$p6p$1@news.ihug.co.nz... > Hi >MD > Has anybody got NTP to work with this version of UCX the ECO is 4. > J > I get things to run but in the log file I don't see any messages that is it2 > actually talking to the host I want to sync off.H > if I make the node a local master, then the log file puts in a message- > saying it accepted itself as the sync host.0 >? > > > As as an aside, is it worth upgrading from UCX 4.2 to 5.0a?? >p > Cheers > Mike >d >    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:48:42 +0100 + From: Ray Swadling <ray@rgscomputing.co.uk>p Subject: Orphaned batch job...8 Message-ID: <da1iss8a6ht56km46cob6s209t8i258t19@4ax.com>  E I have a problem with an orphaned batch job on a queue. The del/entry'> command was issued to the job and it has now been stuck in theC "aborting" state for about a week. other  committments meant I haveC, been unable to get back to this for a while.  F The problem seems to be that there are no files open and no underlyingB process at all - just an entry in the queue database. I have triedB deleting the queue but I can't as it thinks the batch job is still there.  B Apart from creating a new queue manager file and recreating all my7 queues (irritating but no impossible) I am a bit stuck.   & Its VMS 7.2-1 on an Alpha Server 4100.  2 Any suggestions on how to get rid of this entry???     Ray.   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Sep 2000 18:49:16 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)" Subject: Re: Orphaned batch job...6 Message-ID: <8qb0rc$7d8$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  f In article <da1iss8a6ht56km46cob6s209t8i258t19@4ax.com>, Ray Swadling <ray@rgscomputing.co.uk> writes:' :Its VMS 7.2-1 on an Alpha Server 4100.  :a3 :Any suggestions on how to get rid of this entry???m  H   Please contact the support center -- I think the folks here in OpenVMSI   and the folks in the CSC would be interested in details of this "stuck  .   aborting" misbehaviour of the queue manager.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:10:39 +0100-+ From: Ray Swadling <ray@rgscomputing.co.uk>0" Subject: Re: Orphaned batch job...8 Message-ID: <lu5iss08ll81iiad248kjvhkpngb6atpdg@4ax.com>  C Well, I thought I'd pose the question just in case this was a known  issue.F The queue itself is still working OK and processing susequent jobs. ItB was set to only have a single job executing due to the applicationD requirements, so by increasing the job limit to 2 its allowed normal: functionality with the stuck job taking up one job "slot".  ) I'll give the CSC a call in the morning. o   Ray.  @ On 20 Sep 2000 18:49:16 GMT, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) wrote:s   > g >In article <da1iss8a6ht56km46cob6s209t8i258t19@4ax.com>, Ray Swadling <ray@rgscomputing.co.uk> writes:t( >:Its VMS 7.2-1 on an Alpha Server 4100. >:4 >:Any suggestions on how to get rid of this entry??? >mI >  Please contact the support center -- I think the folks here in OpenVMSsJ >  and the folks in the CSC would be interested in details of this "stuck / >  aborting" misbehaviour of the queue manager.0 >gO > --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------wM >   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com0   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Sep 2000 15:14:46 PDTT From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515)" Subject: Re: Orphaned batch job...3 Message-ID: <nzymRkq2mPxM@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>0  9 In article <da1iss8a6ht56km46cob6s209t8i258t19@4ax.com>,  2     	Ray Swadling <ray@rgscomputing.co.uk> writes: > G > I have a problem with an orphaned batch job on a queue. The del/entry @ > command was issued to the job and it has now been stuck in theE > "aborting" state for about a week. other  committments meant I have . > been unable to get back to this for a while. > H > The problem seems to be that there are no files open and no underlyingD > process at all - just an entry in the queue database. I have triedD > deleting the queue but I can't as it thinks the batch job is still > there.  H         Did you do a STOP/QUEUE/ABORT  before  trying  to delete it?  NoH     guarantee this will work on batch queues, but it sure does the trickH     with  print queues.  Once the queue is stopped, either the entry  isH     properly gone or it can be removed with  delete/entry=<xxx>.   As  IH     said,  caveat  emptor as I've never had occassion to try this with a     batch entry...           -Ken -- rM  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Edu.:  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924:  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515N  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------B  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 07:49:38 +0800t- From: David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com>D" Subject: Re: Orphaned batch job...+ Message-ID: <39C94D12.FB34123E@bigpond.com>a  9 "Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515" wrote:a > : > In article <da1iss8a6ht56km46cob6s209t8i258t19@4ax.com>,7 >         Ray Swadling <ray@rgscomputing.co.uk> writes:t > > I > > I have a problem with an orphaned batch job on a queue. The del/entrylB > > command was issued to the job and it has now been stuck in theG > > "aborting" state for about a week. other  committments meant I haveu0 > > been unable to get back to this for a while. > >nJ > > The problem seems to be that there are no files open and no underlyingF > > process at all - just an entry in the queue database. I have triedF > > deleting the queue but I can't as it thinks the batch job is still
 > > there. > J >         Did you do a STOP/QUEUE/ABORT  before  trying  to delete it?  NoJ >     guarantee this will work on batch queues, but it sure does the trickJ >     with  print queues.  Once the queue is stopped, either the entry  isJ >     properly gone or it can be removed with  delete/entry=<xxx>.   As  IJ >     said,  caveat  emptor as I've never had occassion to try this with a >     batch entry... >  >         -Ken > --O >  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Edu.< >  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924< >  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515P >  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------D >  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...  - ECO VMS721_UPDATE-V0100 mentions this probleme   -- o Regards, Dave.eI -------------------------------------------------------------------------eI David B Sneddon (dbs)  OpenVMS Systems Programmer   dbsneddon@bigpond.com I DBS software at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htmcI "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" Lennond   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 01:47:07 GMTd5 From: "Larry D Bohan, Jr" <LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com>e( Subject: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships8 Message-ID: <cqpisskkv3mq34e21k8tqomfrnjr0g8kqq@4ax.com>  4 more dollars from US taxpayers, buying the best.      ; this just boggles the imagination, methinks.   Scary stuff.o    - http://www.gcn.com/vol19_no27/dod/2868-1.htmlR ..A Using a particular operating system to run a score of operations,A? rather than several legacy systems, will let the Navy train itstB sailors to use one OS, Lockwood said. In the Navy, "there s been a> consistent mindset to take costs out from the beginning,  when designing ships.                     @ Lockheed Martin officials chose Microsoft in part because of theC company s "experience in computers, networks and systems,  LockwoodmC said. "We felt that Microsoft had a lot of insight  that could help A Lockheed Martin stay current with commercial technology, he said.s<                                                             ; "This is a new area for us,  said Keith Hodson, a MicrosoftuD Government spokesman. "Windows-based products have not traditionallyA been associated with Defense Department-specific mission-critical0 applications.                                   D Windows-based software could help the Navy reduce personnel it needsD to run a carrier, said Willie Williamson, a retired two-star admiralB who s Microsoft Government s business strategy executive director.B Williamson commanded the USS Nimitz during Operation Desert Storm,D and he commanded the John F. Kennedy Battlegroup during a deployment; to the Mediterranean and Pacific less than three years ago.E  D It takes 1,000 sailors "just to get a ship moving,  Williamson said.@ Microsoft software could let the ship s crew know when there s aD pending failure in a ships engineering system, for example, he said.  D Lockheed Martin will use Microsoft OSes for operator workstations in< flight crew ready rooms, as well as systems including radar,B aircraft and weapons launchers, sensors, ship network connectivityB and aircraft control. The Navy also will use Microsoft software to) run more mundane programs, Lockwood said.N  @ Lockheed Martin s Newport News subcontract is worth $500 million! over seven years, Lockwood said. e   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:50:18 -0500t7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>E, Subject: Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships- Message-ID: <39C9776A.52E03790@earthlink.net>    <RANT> "Larry D Bohan, Jr" wrote: > 2 > more dollars from US taxpayers, buying the best. > = > this just boggles the imagination, methinks.   Scary stuff.e > / > http://www.gcn.com/vol19_no27/dod/2868-1.htmlr > ..C > Using a particular operating system to run a score of operations,eA > rather than several legacy systems, will let the Navy train its-D > sailors to use one OS, Lockwood said. In the Navy, "there s been a@ > consistent mindset to take costs out from the beginning,  when > designing ships.  G ...and put the cost back in when they discover what a DEBACLE Micro$hitt
 really is!   B > Lockheed Martin officials chose Microsoft in part because of theE > company s "experience in computers, networks and systems,  LockwoodVE > said. "We felt that Microsoft had a lot of insight  that could helpwC > Lockheed Martin stay current with commercial technology, he said.t  G WHO THE HELL EVER SAID MICRO$HIT WAS "COMMERCIAL" TECHNOLOGY ???!!! WHO-D THE HELL EVER SAID MICRO$HIT WAS _ANY_ _KIND_ OF "TECHNOLOGY" ???!!!  F I know they think that we - the taxpayers - are STUPID, but DAMN !!!  # ...what a blatant slap-in-the-face!s  n= > "This is a new area for us,  said Keith Hodson, a MicrosoftyF > Government spokesman. "Windows-based products have not traditionallyC > been associated with Defense Department-specific mission-criticalt > applications.   ? HOLY F__KING S__T!!! Now *THERE'S* two words I hope I never seer8 immediately adjacent ever again: "Microsoft Government".  _F > Windows-based software could help the Navy reduce personnel it needs > to run a carrier,T  H OF COURSE!!! How many sailors does it take run a ship that's dead in theG water because the damned Windows computer(s) crashed and Windows had toeF be re-installed ???!!! How many sailors does it take run a ship that'sF dead in the water because the damned Windows computer(s) got wiped outG after someone opened an e-mail with a virus/worm/trojan attached ???!!!_  B I can't WAIT to see what kind of viruses/worms/trojans get written* especially for sea-going military vessels!  4 > said Willie Williamson, a retired two-star admiralD > who s Microsoft Government s business strategy executive director.  G DEAR GOD IN HEAVEN HELP US!!! The U.S. Government is now the "Microsoftt Government"!!!  D > Williamson commanded the USS Nimitz during Operation Desert Storm,F > and he commanded the John F. Kennedy Battlegroup during a deployment= > to the Mediterranean and Pacific less than three years ago.,  F So he bloody well ought to know better than to pull such a bone-headed0 stunt! They oughtta bust him down to midshipman!  aF > It takes 1,000 sailors "just to get a ship moving,  Williamson said.B > Microsoft software could let the ship s crew know when there s aF > pending failure in a ships engineering system, for example, he said.  F Yeah, right! ...and what system is going to warn them of the impendingG failure of the Windows machines???!!! I guess if the machine is booted,TC that's warning enough of an impending crash! ...if it boots at all!a  tF > Lockheed Martin will use Microsoft OSes for operator workstations in> > flight crew ready rooms, as well as systems including radar,D > aircraft and weapons launchers, sensors, ship network connectivityD > and aircraft control. The Navy also will use Microsoft software to+ > run more mundane programs, Lockwood said.a  4 ..."mundane programs" like "MineSweeper", right ??!!  oB > Lockheed Martin s Newport News subcontract is worth $500 million" > over seven years, Lockwood said.  : ...the great bulk of which goes directly into BG's pocket! </RANT>g -- P David J. Dachterae dba DJE SystemsW http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/E  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.N   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 03:42:49 GMTA2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>, Subject: Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships6 Message-ID: <Zsfy5.562$F93.210932@typhoon.aracnet.com>  6 David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote:J > OF COURSE!!! How many sailors does it take run a ship that's dead in theI > water because the damned Windows computer(s) crashed and Windows had toAH > be re-installed ???!!! How many sailors does it take run a ship that'sH > dead in the water because the damned Windows computer(s) got wiped outI > after someone opened an e-mail with a virus/worm/trojan attached ???!!!u  H Let's not forget how many of these computers are going to get trashed byL "Computer Literate" sailors trying to put games on them, or deciding they'reD going to upgrade the computer to the latest version of something and breaking things.     				Zane   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Sep 2000 23:01 CST.' From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins)e, Subject: Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships- Message-ID: <20SEP200023011121@gerg.tamu.edu>n  6 "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes...7 }David J. Dachtera <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote:eK }> OF COURSE!!! How many sailors does it take run a ship that's dead in thenJ }> water because the damned Windows computer(s) crashed and Windows had toI }> be re-installed ???!!! How many sailors does it take run a ship that's=I }> dead in the water because the damned Windows computer(s) got wiped outiJ }> after someone opened an e-mail with a virus/worm/trojan attached ???!!! } I }Let's not forget how many of these computers are going to get trashed byuM }"Computer Literate" sailors trying to put games on them, or deciding they're*E }going to upgrade the computer to the latest version of something ande }breaking things.  e } 	 }				Zane-  F But when things go wrong, you can just pop over to the DoD, or GE, web> site and download the newest drivers for your nuclear reactor.   --- Carl   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 04:19:13 GMTr4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>, Subject: Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships= Message-ID: <5%fy5.26907$pu4.2427705@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>n  4 "Carl Perkins" <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message' news:20SEP200023011121@gerg.tamu.edu...t    H > But when things go wrong, you can just pop over to the DoD, or GE, web@ > site and download the newest drivers for your nuclear reactor.  E Yeah, well, that won't work if the excursion or LOCA hath turned youra Itanium chips into Plutonium.a  J But not to worry... the CVN 77 doesn't set sail until 2008. By which pointL many of the bugs in Windows 2000 should be worked out. One would hope that a/ then-15-year old OS would be reasonably stable.    One would hope that!   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 12:41:05 +0800 - From: David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com>s, Subject: Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships+ Message-ID: <39C99161.28954F0C@bigpond.com>a   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:  > 6 > "Carl Perkins" <carl@gerg.tamu.edu> wrote in message) > news:20SEP200023011121@gerg.tamu.edu...@ > J > > But when things go wrong, you can just pop over to the DoD, or GE, webB > > site and download the newest drivers for your nuclear reactor. > G > Yeah, well, that won't work if the excursion or LOCA hath turned yours > Itanium chips into Plutonium." > L > But not to worry... the CVN 77 doesn't set sail until 2008. By which pointN > many of the bugs in Windows 2000 should be worked out. One would hope that a1 > then-15-year old OS would be reasonably stable.  >  > One would hope that!  8 Which would mean that it would be a "legacy" system  ;-?   -- s Regards, Dave.pI -------------------------------------------------------------------------rI David B Sneddon (dbs)  OpenVMS Systems Programmer   dbsneddon@bigpond.com I DBS software at ...   http://www.users.bigpond.com/dbsneddon/software.htm.I "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" Lennon    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 05:00:33 GMT 2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>, Subject: Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships6 Message-ID: <RBgy5.565$F93.212840@typhoon.aracnet.com>  . David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> wrote:: > Which would mean that it would be a "legacy" system  ;-?  J I thought Windows was a legacy system.  After all it's based on DOS, whichH was originally a rip-off of CP/M which unless I'm very mistaken is older than VMS.  :^)  J Seriously though, doesn't Windows have warnings about not using it in lifeJ threatening situations?  Or is that just certain MS products, or have they discontinued that practice?a  
 		       Zane-   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Sep 2000 04:49:05 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)., Subject: Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships' Message-ID: <8qc401$foa$1@joe.rice.edu>d  3 Terry C. Shannon (terryshannon@mediaone.net) wrote:t : G : Yeah, well, that won't work if the excursion or LOCA hath turned yourp : Itanium chips into Plutonium.   G : But not to worry... the CVN 77 doesn't set sail until 2008. By which sI : point many of the bugs in Windows 2000 should be worked out. One would h= : hope that a then-15-year old OS would be reasonably stable.  :l : One would hope that!  C Has Microsoft yet demonstrated the ability to improve the stability # of ANY of their operating systems ?d  C I've heard comments about how NT is about where VMS was after beingi@ on the market the same number of years. A reminder of how stableC VMS 4.x was usually fogs up those Redmond rose-colored glasses worno% by the "one would hope" IT PHBs/MGMs.   4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:40:08 -0700e! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com-> Subject: Re: Problems with the OpenVms web-based documentationC Message-ID: <OFBA154D98.43EA4A27-ON88256960.0066588C@HEALTHNET.COM>.  K My company is slowly replacing all our old LK-series PC keyboards, and I'veTI got the desktop services people saving them from the dumpster and passing:I them to me. Unfortunately I found out just too late to get a job lot fromcB one site of about 400 for nothing. Oh well - there's more sites to
 come......   Nah nah ne nah nah.n   Shanes            > David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> on 09/20/2000 12:01:25 AM   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como cc:   ? Subject:  Re: Problems with the OpenVms web-based documentation"    & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: >aJ > I recently purchased TEN (10) spare LK461(x6) and LK46W(x4) just in case  D And I thought I was paranoid.  I wondered a bit when I got 2 spares.   --4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------   Date: 20 Sep 2000 20:06:51 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)2 Subject: strlen(), comparisons, unexpected results, Message-ID: <8qb5cr$cpn@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  H I just ran into a really odd behavior regarding strlen() that I had not H seen before.  This is one that definitely has the capability of causing  bugs in program code.r  R In a C program of mine there is a function "maxlength" that removes strings from aA stack if strlen(string) >= N. The only way to remove ALL strings,-I including those with length zero is to set N to -1 (or anything else lessiI than zero.)  However, doing so leaves all strings on the stack - exactly -I the opposite of the intended behavior! On thinking about it, I think thatdJ DEC C must be converting the int to size_t and not testing for a sign bit K in any way, so that -1 becomes FFFFFFFF (or smething like that), and size_twK is an unsigned int, so that rather than always being false, the test always  comes back true.  I Surprisingly, given how anal DEC C can be (QUESTCOMPARE1, QUESTCOMPARE2), G there's no warning that this might happen even when /warn=enable=all isn used.    Details.   $ cc/ver) Compaq C V6.2-007 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1r   $create tiny.c #include <stdlib.h>u #include <stdio.h> #include <string.h>  int main(void){e
 int fsize=-1;h #if defined(USECAST)B   if((int) strlen("") <= fsize)(void) printf("Surprising, eh?\n"); #elsea<   if(strlen("") <= fsize)(void) printf("Surprising, eh?\n"); #endif exit(EXIT_SUCCESS);  } $ $ cc/standard=ansi89/prefix=all tiny $ link tiny  $ r tiny Surprising, eh?i3 $ cc/standard=ansi89/prefix=all/define=usecast tinys $ link tiny  $ r tiny $!0 $! now do it just using size_t, no strlen at all $! $create tiny.c #include <stdlib.h>y #include <stdio.h> int main(void){t
 int fsize=-1;  size_t foo; 
   foo = 0; #if defined(USECAST);   if((int) foo <= fsize)(void) printf("Surprising, eh?\n");  #else ;   if( foo      <= fsize)(void) printf("Surprising, eh?\n");  #endif exit(EXIT_SUCCESS);d }  $S  J Which works just the same as with strlen(), confirming that the problem isK a result of size_t and int comparisons.  But those occur all over the place-B and will come out backwards if the int is ever negative!  In fact,E I think it's more likely to work as expected if the size_t was always0F converted to int, rather than the other way around, at least when the - comparison is of magnitude instead of | or &.-  9 Why doesn't this code generate some type of QUESTCOMPARE?b   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edus? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech u   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2000 18:57:48 -05002 From: malmberg@eisner.decus.org (John E. Malmberg)6 Subject: Re: strlen(), comparisons, unexpected results+ Message-ID: <pAwRykzaGWDc@eisner.decus.org>s  , In article <8qb5cr$cpn@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,4 mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:J > I just ran into a really odd behavior regarding strlen() that I had not J > seen before.  This is one that definitely has the capability of causing  > bugs in program code.e   E > In a C program of mine there is a function "maxlength" that removesiE > strings from a stack if strlen(string) >= N. The only way to removenA > ALL strings, including those with length zero is to set N to -1 B > (or anything else less than zero.)  However, doing so leaves allG > strings on the stack - exactly the opposite of the intended behavior! E > On thinking about it, I think that DEC C must be converting the intoI > to size_t and not testing for a sign bit in any way, so that -1 becomeslE > FFFFFFFF (or smething like that), and size_t is an unsigned int, so 6 > that rather than always being false, the test always > comes back true.  E The conversion of the -1 to 0xFFFFFFFF in these cases is one of thosen0 wonderful documented features of the C language.  E In the DEC C 5.7 manual it is in section 6.10.1, note the interestinga$ shaded paragraph for the exceptions.  D Just for grins, change the definition of fsize to be "long long int" instead of "int".    K > Surprisingly, given how anal DEC C can be (QUESTCOMPARE1, QUESTCOMPARE2),mI > there's no warning that this might happen even when /warn=enable=all isJ > used.    It would be a nice to see that.t  ? I am seeing informational messages from DEC C 6.0 when SAMBA istK passing a -1 to a routine that is prototyped as expecting an unsigned int.  N That is close to the same situation.  I do have to have /warn=enable=questcode$ enabled for these to show up though.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Sep 2000 00:41:00 +0200) From: maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Maulis Adam)i6 Subject: Re: strlen(), comparisons, unexpected results! Message-ID: <p57gmWQIlo7k@ludens>    Hello,    J > I just ran into a really odd behavior regarding strlen() that I had not J > seen before.  This is one that definitely has the capability of causing  > bugs in program code.  >-T > In a C program of mine there is a function "maxlength" that removes strings from aC > stack if strlen(string) >= N. The only way to remove ALL strings, 4 > including those with length zero is to set N to -1  " I think you mistyped your article:  ( 1)  N not have to set to less than zero:  (      ( strlen("") >= 0 )  IS always true     [...]g  K > Surprisingly, given how anal DEC C can be (QUESTCOMPARE1, QUESTCOMPARE2),8I > there's no warning that this might happen even when /warn=enable=all isr > used.   # 2) It is more interesting for me...i  & $ cc/ver	! our C compiler is different) Compaq C V6.2-003 on OpenVMS Alpha V7.2-1r     [...some c code...]m  L > Which works just the same as with strlen(), confirming that the problem is) > a result of size_t and int comparisons.a   yes.  2 typedef unsigned int __size_t;  /* DECC$TYPES.H */? typedef __size_t size_t         /* stdio.h, string.h, etc... */e  J so the problem is a result of unsigned and signed NON-CONSTANT comparisons   (for constant comparison:  unsigned a; [...] if( a <0 )  ( CC results a CC-I-QUESTCOMPARE message.)      % >  But those occur all over the placeTD > and will come out backwards if the int is ever negative!  In fact,G > I think it's more likely to work as expected if the size_t was alwaysh > converted to int,P  6 > rather than the other way around, at least when the / > comparison is of magnitude instead of | or &.s  9 And... there will be an some unexpected result when usingu  a structure more than 2 Gbyte... size_t a,b;i [...]n if (a > b) ...  < ( or, when size_t converted to __int64 will be a problem in  the vax-alpha compatibility)  G so you may be want unsigned converted to int only in relation with int. * I think it is non comfort with C standard.  ; > Why doesn't this code generate some type of QUESTCOMPARE?S  5 Just a tip one: there will be plenty of informational - message while compiling an ordinary C source.e: tip two: it was too difficult for implementing in DecC :-)  3 This is one of the things, thats make extremly easyh to develop a buggy code in C.o         Regards, Adam Maulisf OpenVMS$SYSTEM_MANAGER  + I recognize that my English was not enought * to produce an easy understandable article.     > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edulA > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech r     ps: an example:   C $  cc/standard=ansi89/prefix=all/warning=(enab=all,verbose)/noopt aN  )    if( ui < 0 ) (void) printf("ugh1...");i .......^L %CC-I-QUESTCOMPARE, In this statement, the unsigned expression "ui" is beingL compared with a relational operator to a constant whose value is not greater0 than zero.  This might not be what you intended.( at line number 5 in file ddcu:[dir]A.C;1  L Description: An ordered comparison between an unsigned value and a constant A 	that is less than or equal to zero often indicates a programmingpA 	error.  Humans consider an unsigned value to be larger than any  > 	negative value.  But in C a negative value is converted to anE 	unsigned value before the comparison, so any negative value comparess? 	larger than most unsigned values.  An ordered comparison of ani@ 	unsigned value to zero suggests a programming error because the? 	value can only begreater than or equal to zero. If the code isM? 	correct, the comparison could be more clearly coded by testingg 	for equality with zero.  C User Action: Cast (or otherwise rewrite) one of the operands of therA 	compare to match the signedness of the other operand, or compare  	for equality with zero.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:59:11 -0700 ! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com * Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persistC Message-ID: <OFA132F9B4.4022E853-ON88256960.0068137B@HEALTHNET.COM>g  G Yes, Bob, Andrew is (to quote from E.E.Smith) a descendent of countless.K generations of dwellers in stinking, unflowering mud. :-) We all know that. F However, he is doing an excellent job of trashing the last vestiges ofK respect anyone on this group ever had for Sun, so I say let him get on witht it.e   Carry on, Andrew.    Shanes          9 hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net> on 09/20/2000 08:23:43 AMn  ) Please respond to shsrms@bellatlantic.neta   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com- cc:-  + Subject:  Re: Sun Hardware problems persist0     andrew harrison wrote:  snipped stuff to save bandwidth: >>? > Of course you did not call the FUDsters lying idiots I wonder58 > why, perhaps a trawl through deja would be interesting8 > were you involved in the threads ? Remember anyone who7 > suggested that the outage was caused by Sun SW/HW has : > in your terms been shown to be a lying idiot, your words( > not mine and not words I would choose. >n > Andrew Harrisona > Enterprise IT Architectd Andrew,a< You have made me wish that Carl Lydick was back to deal with= you properly.  Carl is not here, I am not able to emulate him?9 in the style he deserves, so I will have to do it my way.g= Andrew - I am aghast at you, the king of FUDster spin postingu< those words.  You persist in your approach to spin the truth; into an orwellian morass yet you give us a prime example of.> why some mothers should eat their young AND reason to finalize retroactive abortion.  v/rg justbobe   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:34:58 +0000D- From: SysAdmin <djesys.nospam@fsi.net.mapson>.* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist. Message-ID: <39C91F72.DBC0C154@fsi.net.mapson>  B Y'know I've been loath to chime in on this thread, but I feel this should be said:h  F Any system which is *THAT* sensitive to environmental factors, and yetE lacks sufficient shielding and isolation to prevent disruption and/orp) corruption deserves exactly what it gets.d  H That said, consider the "mantra" of the self-help gurus: with respect toH yourself vs. the world, which are you more likely to change: yourself or2 the world? Which are you most empowered to change?  G As I once told a wanna-be net guru, devices must be designed to work in F ALL environments (i.e., the real world) in so far as that is possible,2 not just ideal environments (i.e. the laboratory).  D If you find your design is subject to environmental limitations, you have essentially two choices:u   1. Scrap the design- 2. Fix the design-  E In this day and age of computing, expecting a "microscopically clean,yF totally static-free" data center is not entirely reasonable, save thatB such requirements are mandated by a unique design, unparalleled inF performance and/or capacity. Suffice it to say, precious few computersD come under that heading, regardless of which corporate logo (if any)  graces the front of the cabinet.   ...IMHO.   Illustrative anecdotes:e  B I had a problem at what is now one of two major data centers for aA former employer. Static fields induced by people walking past theiF printers were inducing garbage data/signals in some printer cables andB print servers we were evaluating. Walking past the other printers,G computers, etc. produced no unexpected results. Changing to a different B print server (Emulex) and verifying the correctness of the related! cables produced positive results.   > The same set up was used with no problems on four other sites.  E In the data center at a fifth site, however, ALL efforts to introducerH DECserver250 alternatives were totally unsuccessful due to stray signalsF and environmental EMI. The most economically viable solution there wasA to leave the existing DECserver250s and LP29s in place and simplyiE provide a local boot server (MicroVAX) for them which also acts as anhH LPD server - respooling the jobs locally, then printing them via LAT andH the DECserver250s (this keeps LAT isolated to the associated data center (V)LAN).  F Some machines will work reliably in hostile environments. They will be( more successful than those which do not.   David J. Dachterar   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 00:35:12 GMTt% From: hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net>s* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist0 Message-ID: <39C95809.175EA361@bellatlantic.net>   Shane,B I suppose you are correct, there is a certain entertainment value.@ Not quite up to monty python standards, but certainly smirkable. Thanks!! bob   " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > I > Yes, Bob, Andrew is (to quote from E.E.Smith) a descendent of countless2M > generations of dwellers in stinking, unflowering mud. :-) We all know that.uH > However, he is doing an excellent job of trashing the last vestiges ofM > respect anyone on this group ever had for Sun, so I say let him get on withh > it.l >  > Carry on, Andrew.  >  > Shanee > ; > hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net> on 09/20/2000 08:23:43 AMb > + > Please respond to shsrms@bellatlantic.netP >  > To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coms > cc:  > - > Subject:  Re: Sun Hardware problems persist  >  > andrew harrison wrote:" > snipped stuff to save bandwidth: > >sA > > Of course you did not call the FUDsters lying idiots I wonderc: > > why, perhaps a trawl through deja would be interesting: > > were you involved in the threads ? Remember anyone who9 > > suggested that the outage was caused by Sun SW/HW hasi< > > in your terms been shown to be a lying idiot, your words* > > not mine and not words I would choose. > >h > > Andrew Harrisonr > > Enterprise IT Architectt	 > Andrew,u> > You have made me wish that Carl Lydick was back to deal with? > you properly.  Carl is not here, I am not able to emulate him ; > in the style he deserves, so I will have to do it my way. ? > Andrew - I am aghast at you, the king of FUDster spin posting > > those words.  You persist in your approach to spin the truth= > into an orwellian morass yet you give us a prime example ofm@ > why some mothers should eat their young AND reason to finalize > retroactive abortion.  > v/re	 > justboby   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 02:45:02 GMT + From: Jordan Henderson <jordan@my-deja.com> * Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist) Message-ID: <8qbsna$bmh$1@nnrp1.deja.com>-  ) In article <39C8CFF9.56AA5CC@uk.sun.com>,03   andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:- > Jordan Henderson wrote:h > >O. > > In article <39C87FC3.7CCA714E@uk.sun.com>,6 > > andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: > > >aF > > >> If that is so, the current ecache problems likely come from Sun itself.k > > >vB > > >The current ecache problems are caused by SRAM components and# > > >Sun does not manufacture SRAM.t > > >t > >bD > > How many times do you have to be proven to be lying here for you > > to stop saying it? > >aD > > Who are we to believe, Andrew, the Idiot Architect, who has beenC > > proven to be lying on so many occasions, or the Executive VP of C > > Sun, baring his soul to the Analysts with the very embarrassing C > > news that Sun doesn't really have any idea what the problem is,T& > > even after years of working on it? > > 9 > Jordan you are letting your desire to do Sun down cloudn9 > yor argument, you are in danger of taking the award forT@ > the least well thought out posting on this newsgroup currently  > held jointly by Rob and Kerry.  . Depends on the judge for the award, I suppose.  8 The one Sun employee who posts constantly to comp.os.vms7 might think posts from VMS advocates are poorly thoughta9 out, but I'd guess that most denizens of comp.os.vms give(1 you the Gold, Silver and Bronze in that category.b   >p# > > I quote said Exec VP Shoemaker:i > > H > >   According to Shoemaker, Sun hasn't been able to narrow the problemH > >   to any one specific cause. Sun believes the problems may have beenH > >   caused by a combination of factors, including defective componentsH > >   from one of Sun's suppliers, poor packaging of the memory chips on3 > >   the system boards, and environmental factors.t > > : > Well done yet again you repeat the article, and I repeat > the actual problem.e >a: > We use a standard SRAM part in the ecache of the UltraII< > CPU's this SRAM has been supplied by two different vendors% > who I am not at liberty to discuss.  > = > We have found that the bits flip on the SRAM, but that theytA > don't flip by themselves, they flip because of external factorsg9 > of which static is one of the most obvious culprits. We A > know that reducing the incidence of static by proper datacenter'E > management reduces the incidence dramatically of the bits flipping.d > F > We also know that changing the origional SRAM to a new and identicalC > speced part from a different vendor also dramatically reduces thei! > incidence of the bits flipping.= >h= > We cannot rule out other factors that may cause the bits tor> > flip because there are other factors appart from static that@ > could cause this. However we know that reducing static reduces; > the bits flipping because customers who have followed they? > advice of our datacenter assessment team have found that theyt. > are getting very much reduced failure rates. >s> > This of course was in the first article posted to this group= > and was completely ignored by you and all the other OpenVMS 9 > boosters allong with Metas comments because they do not) > support your arguments.( >rA > > Yet, Andrew says with utter confidence that the cause is SRAMS components.? > >  >e@ > Yes and my statement is not out of line with any of the others > made by Sun representatives. > B > > And, typical of Andrew, he blames a supplier (not Sun, who has responsibilityG > > to test and qualify these parts).  Just like he blames all the many  eBayB > > failures on various partners, who are always nameless (must be anothero7 > > one of Sun's gags/NDAs at work).  Transparent lies.  > >p >s< > No I han't said that, Sun sources the SRAM and I have in a> > posting to this group said that the SRAM issue is ultimately6 > Sun's problem, but that does not alter the fact that > it is a component issue. >o@ > You would not for example blame Compaq for the Intel processor< > bugs but Compaq were responsible for fixing the systems by > replacing the Intel CPU's.  : Where to begin?  All your spinning and hand waving doesn't9 reconcile your statements with VP Shoemaker's.  You said,e flatly, above:  > > > >The current ecache problems are caused by SRAM components  @ While VP Shoemaker clearly indicates that this is but one of the? factors that may be involved, but that Sun was unable to narrowu< it down.  You should give VP Shoemaker a call and get him to@ retract his embarrassing remarks that admit that, even after twoA years of working the problem, the Sun Engineers can't narrow downt< the problem.   Andrew Harrison Enterprise IT Architect knows the single cause!o  = Really, Andrew, Sun should have you as their spokesman rathero> than VP Shoemaker.  VP Shoemaker makes admissions that Sun has? had been "at the back of the class with regard to quality", bute@ has improved.  I believe the part about being at the back of the? class, but coming from a man who admits that they still haven'tt@ been able to narrow down the cause of a failure after 2 years of# trying does not inspire confidence.F  < Further, you claim that this is somehow comparable to Compaq< fielding systems with defective Intel processors.  They seem: quite different to me.  Intel was able to provide a simple; test that elicited the problem, they were able to produce ai; new part that definitively did not ever exhibit the problemg; and it doesn't require armies of technicians to desend upon): your installation to swap out parts, examine environmental> factors and point out that you are using the system during the) unapproved moon phase for best operation.      >.? > Nor do I think Compaq would for example be likely to dish the ? > dirt on a particular supplier where the supplier did not want. > the information made public. >e  @ How very hypothetical of you.  Somehow, Sun partners and vendors? must be protected from Sun dishing dirt, while in the situation4< with Intel that you find that comparable, Intel stood up and9 publicly worked with their customers to fix the problems.D  > It's awfully convenient for Sun that they have these suppliersA that must be protected.  Sun can get away with blaming everythingh on the mystery supplier.  8 > You seem like Rob to be intent in trying to prove that9 > there is some sort of wicked Sun conspiracy. Ironicallyt4 > the first conspiracy theory of this type, the eBay6 > one proved in fact to be a situation where Sun stood4 > much more to gain by not having an NDA because the6 > public airing of the actual causes of eBays problems- > would have shown that Sun was not to blame.w  9 Oh?  You can _claim_ this, but in fact there has not beenc8 "a public airing of the actual causes of eBays problems" that would vindicate Sun.v   >e: > You dare to call me an idiot but again going back to the? > eBay 22 hour outage, all the conspiracy theories, speculationV< > about data corruption, hardware failures and all the other5 > FUD turned out to be total and utter rubbish eitherg< > knowingly (or lets hope) unknowingly being fed to this and= > other groups in a vain attempt damage Sun. The facts at the/; > time and the facts now available show that I was entirely.= > accurate about the fact that the eBay outage was not causedO; > by a failure in any Sun supplied or supported software or  > hardware.0  ; "The facts at the time and the facts now available show..."o  8 Hmmm... Let's tackle "The facts at the time".  The first7 thing we heard from eBay was that they very much blamedr Sun for recurring outages:  =   http://www.wirednews.com/news/business/0,1367,20190,00.html   3   http://www.forbes.com/forbes/99/0726/6402238a.htmi  C   http://www.osopinion.com/Opinions/BillHennessy/BillHennessy3.htmlp  ; Apparently, someone behind the scenes has something to say:e  6   http://www.illuminata.com/analystnb/andeepthroat.htm  6 Then, there was a flurry of conflicting and convoluted: explanations from Sun.  Finally, everything went quiet (do: we here the pens scribbling signatures on NDAs in the hope! that Sun will fix the problems?).d  8 Finally, we hear that Sun has "sold" many new servers to eBay:l  H  http://www.canada.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-1882022.html?tag=st.ne.1003- 203-1692555..ni   : But, what's this?  The details of the deal go undisclosed.   Sounds like a big payoff to me.h  ; So, Andrew, where's your facts now that prove that the eBayf: failures had nothing to do with Sun HW/SW?  Oh, I remember< now, the last time this was discussed here, you had to point? to those suppliers and customers that needed to be "protected".e  ; It seems like it's Sun that needs protection and that's whye2 they have this NDA-policy whenever problems arise.  = In any case, eBay and Sun once enjoyed halcyon days where Sunh= held them up as a stellar example of a huge eCommerce successu9 on Sun hardware.  They participated with Veritas in jointl8 marketing highlighting eBay.  While you won't find these> testimonials anywhere today, you can still find evidence of it here:c  G  http://www.sun.com/smi/Press/sunflash/2000-06/sunflash.20000614.4.htmle  : Where the Sun contact for this Veritas/Sun solution has an email address @EBAY.sun.com .   8 Face it, Sun and Veritas were crawling all over the eBay: systems.  They should have spotted any problems and warned; eBay of bad practices, if there were any.  Why didn't they?l= Well, the best explanation was that Sun didn't see it coming.m   >o? > Of course you did not call the FUDsters lying idiots I wonderc8 > why, perhaps a trawl through deja would be interesting$ > were you involved in the threads ?8 >                                    Remember anyone who7 > suggested that the outage was caused by Sun SW/HW haso: > in your terms been shown to be a lying idiot, your words( > not mine and not words I would choose.  = I'm waiting for those people to be shown to be liars.  Sorry,,8 I can't take your word for it, you're just not credible.5 Everytime I do catch you in a clear lie, anyone who'ss= interested please trawl through deja, you change the subject.g  8 Of course you wouldn't dare accuse anyone of lying about> the eBay problems.  It's so mirky and confidential that nobody2 except an insider could say, one way or the other.2 And, all the insiders are probably gagged by NDAs.   >c > Andrew Harrisono > Enterprise IT Architecta >e    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:14:03 GMTe2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>" Subject: Re: TCPIP V5.0 complaints6 Message-ID: <vM9y5.532$F93.206653@typhoon.aracnet.com>   sms@antinode.org wrote:vF >    Or V5.1?  Or Compaq C V6.2, or any of the stuff that's newer thanJ > the latest Hobbyist CD-ROM?  When I first got my bargain AlphaStation, IG > invested in the VMS V7.2 field test kit just so I could run somethingoJ > other than Linux.  When I complained about that stuff, I got suggestionsB > to update to the _real_ V7.2.  The Hobbyist CD-ROM was _greatly_F > appreciated, but all of us cheapskates are now falling behind again.  J The worst part is that it would be really beneficial to have Compaq C V6.2K in the hands of Hobbyists from what I understand.  Doesn't the kit that wasoK released to aid in porting UNIX apps require V6.2 (or am I totally confused  here).   			Zanee   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:44:10 -0400g  From: John Santos <JOHN@egh.com>! Subject: Re: Telnet configurationN/ Message-ID: <1000920193402.11597A@Ives.egh.com>g  ) On Wed, 20 Sep 2000, Tim Llewellyn wrote:    >  >  > Robert Deininger wrote:0 > L > > In article <39C8CA59.C29A924C@bbc.co.uk>, tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk wrote: > >p > > > SysAdmin wrote:C > > > >0B > > > > I don't think a file associated with SYS$ANNOUNCE (such asP > > > > "@SYS$MANAGER:ANNOUNCE.TXT") can contain anything executable, I'm fairly" > > > > certain it's display only. > > >fP > > > If it isn't then surely its a security hole you could drive something very > > > large thru.s > > F > > I must be missing something.  How would that make a security hole? > >r > P > Allowing a user to execute code before login is to me a hole. Ok, they have toP > somehow deposit malicious code to onto the system and force it to be executed.  H How would it be any easier for a malicious user to put something in thisB file than it would be for them to e.g. modify systartup_vms.com or anything else in sys$manager:?  E But it's all irrelevant.  SYS$ANNOUNCE is not executed.  It is copiedo? to the user's terminal.  You could presumably embed destructive A escape sequences in it, but even then, the worst thing the escape B sequences could do is send destructive commands back to the systemG *AFTER* the user is logged in, and they would act in the user's processcE context.   Still, this must be done by a privileged user.  (SYSNAM isr* required to define a system logical name.)  A > Maybe I am wrong and it would be secure as no input is allowed.t >  > Just interested. >  --r8 > Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project2 > MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.C > Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukr > C > I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those ofr > MedAS or the BBC., >  >  >  >    -- e John Santos  Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. 781-861-0670 ext 539   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Sep 2000 02:56:29 +0200) From: maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Maulis Adam)p! Subject: Re: Telnet configurationt! Message-ID: <KpDUp+kXgObt@ludens>e  b In article <8q7ibn$nss1@eccws12.dearborn.ford.com>, "Anthony Classick" <aclassic@ford.com> writes:N > I need to change the message that comes up just prior to the login prompt inN > a telnet session, in VMS 5.0 to 6.2 (several systems). What do I need to do?  I    You can change this message for all types of login (telnet, set host, nN    local) by definiing sys$announce logical. See sys$manager:systartup_vms.comD    (or sys$manager:systartup_v5.com) or some articles in this thread    for more info.y  H    You also can change announce message only that type of login you wantA    but it need some (*) programming experience. For more info seee6    loginout callback routines especially LGI$ICR_INIT.$    (OpenVMS Utility Routines Manual)       I hope I help you.   Adam Maulis5 OpenVMS$SYSTEM_MANAGER     (*) more than mine:-)    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 23:41:00 -0400o2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)! Subject: Re: Telnet configurationeL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2009002341010001@user-2ive7dl.dialup.mindspring.com>  H In article <39C8DC45.51A7CDC3@bbc.co.uk>, tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk wrote:   > Robert Deininger wrote:, > L > > In article <39C8CA59.C29A924C@bbc.co.uk>, tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk wrote: > >s > > > SysAdmin wrote:, > > > > B > > > > I don't think a file associated with SYS$ANNOUNCE (such asP > > > > "@SYS$MANAGER:ANNOUNCE.TXT") can contain anything executable, I'm fairly" > > > > certain it's display only. > > >oP > > > If it isn't then surely its a security hole you could drive something very > > > large thru.h > >oF > > I must be missing something.  How would that make a security hole? > >  > P > Allowing a user to execute code before login is to me a hole. Ok, they have toP > somehow deposit malicious code to onto the system and force it to be executed.   But this is under control of the system manager, not the user.  It typically happens as a by-product of sylogin.com.  Maybe you let your users fiddle with sylogin.com, but I don't. :-)   -- e Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.comm   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:26:09 GMT * From: Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com> Subject: Re: VAX VMS TO ALPHAI) Message-ID: <8qavf3$86k$1@nnrp1.deja.com>a  - In article <39C8D030.AFC16C68@digitem.co.ma>, 0   ezzaoudi med <m.ezzaoudi@digitem.co.ma> wrote: > HiG > I have a MV3100-80 with VMS 7.1 , Cobol 5.1-10 and Pathworks Advanced 	 > Server.m# > I want to migrate to  Alpha DS20.s >tA > 1- My Executable cobol programs can they run without problems ?-   Not as are.-  B > 2- Have I to recompil my sources programs for generating the new >     executables programs ?  6 Yes, or run them thru the transmogrifier program VEST.C Recompiling will offer better performance, but you may have to make G some modifications -- variable alignment in particular is important forw best performance.n  . There's more, so check out the following link:  ?    http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/72final/6459/6459PRO.HTMLh      > 3- Pathworks Advanced Server :H >     Can I download my users account base ( and rights) from the vax to
 > the Alpha ?A   Don't know.d   -- Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman  alan48  &-)  dellnet.comm    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:01:51 -0400t& From: "Syltrem" <syltrem@videotron.ca> Subject: Re: VAX VMS TO ALPHAc6 Message-ID: <NK7y5.3709$D4.69668@wagner.videotron.net>  B You have to recompile your Cobol programs, create new executables.8 You can move your sysuaf.dat, rightslist.dat files over.  H I guess you can do the same with pathworks files, but I never did it. WeJ used to have pathworks running on 2 nodes (one VAX, one Alpha) of the sameJ VMScluster and I believe they shared the config files for I don't rememberJ having to enter everything twice. So if you know what files are incvolved,K install Pathworks on the alpha box and move you VAX files over (do a backups first!).   Syltrem     : "ezzaoudi med" <m.ezzaoudi@digitem.co.ma> wrote in message' news:39C8D030.AFC16C68@digitem.co.ma...o > HiG > I have a MV3100-80 with VMS 7.1 , Cobol 5.1-10 and Pathworks Advancedm	 > Server.a# > I want to migrate to  Alpha DS20.  > A > 1- My Executable cobol programs can they run without problems ?nB > 2- Have I to recompil my sources programs for generating the new >     executables programs ?  > 3- Pathworks Advanced Server :H >     Can I download my users account base ( and rights) from the vax to
 > the Alpha ?  >  > Yours  >e >t   ------------------------------    Date: 20 Sep 2000 16:44:31 -05002 From: malmberg@eisner.decus.org (John E. Malmberg) Subject: Re: VAX VMS TO ALPHAt+ Message-ID: <nY6gLP5iRCJH@eisner.decus.org>t  ;  "ezzaoudi med" <m.ezzaoudi#digitem.co.ma> wrote in messageR(  news:39C8D030.AFC16C68@digitem.co.ma... > HiG > I have a MV3100-80 with VMS 7.1 , Cobol 5.1-10 and Pathworks Advancedo	 > Server.c# > I want to migrate to  Alpha DS20.e >cA > 1- My Executable cobol programs can they run without problems ?cB > 2- Have I to recompil my sources programs for generating the new >     executables programs ?  B      Same answers as were given yesterday to your post of the same       question from Hoff Hoffman.  9      If they are not on your news server, you can look ats=      http://www.deja.com and search discussions for your namec      and comp.os.vms.         In short:  C      You will need to recompile your source programs.  There may benF      data alignment issues in the source that may need to be resolved.  C      The last time I had to check the on the issues of moving a VAXaD      application, I got very good support from the pre-sales supportA      people at Digital to make sure all the issues were resolved.pI      I would expect that Compaq is continuing that same type of pre-salesr
      support.s    > 3- Pathworks Advanced Server :H >     Can I download my users account base ( and rights) from the vax to
 > the Alpha ?   '     Again the same answer as yesterday.a  C     If you put the new in the same Pathworks Advanced Server Domain A     as the old server, but as a Backup Domain Controller, it will &     copy all of your accounts for you.  C     After the replication has completed you can promote the new boxs      to be the domain controller.  D     When you run the PWRK$CONFIG procedure for your new system, makeD     sure that you specify it as a BDC, the default is a PDC, and the(     recovery procedure is not fun to do.  D     The Pathworks Advanced Server's user account base and associatedC     rights are not maintained in the VMS user and rights databases.p   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network e   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:02:54 GMTh- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu>g& Subject: Re: Why are these files open?( Message-ID: <39C909D8.B4E899F4@ohio.edu>  Z I do not regard this misfeature as a major problem, because I already know that if I don'tO ask INSTALL just right, it won't admit to knowing about the file, so I persist.t  W This is, in my view, a significant, unreasonable burden on new VMS system managers, foreV whom the very concept of a "known file" may well be bewildering.  I would regard it as[ appropriate to elevate the priority of enhancing INSTALL in this area as part of the efforti[ to spread VMS to new accounts, and as further adding to the "easy to manage" reputation VMSe has earned.h  #                                 RDP      Hoff Hoffman wrote:t  Z > In article <39C8AD85.E3CE728C@ohio.edu>, "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> writes:W > :Hoff, is there any prospect for making INSTALL willing to default to all devices andtN > :directories if you ask it to list an image by specifying only the filename? > I >   I usually use INSTALL in conjunction with PIPE and SEARCH when I needtJ >   to search to see if an image is installed, but IIRC the questioner wasI >   running a version too far back for that particular technique to work.t1 >   (eg: List to a file, then SEARCH, of course.)t > H >   It is probably (I haven't looked at the code) possible to extend theJ >   INSTALL utility to better handle partial file specifications -- yes, II >   would guess that this change is technically feasible.  (I do not haveiG >   the cycles right now to add this, and I don't know that the INSTALLiG >   maintainer has the cycles either.  (It occurs to me that SDA shouldr1 >   also handle the image list, but I digress...)n >m >oP >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:36:57 -0700t! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.coml( Subject: Re: [JAVA] Adobe Acrobat ViewerC Message-ID: <OF4DAAFC32.CCB41440-ON88256960.00663365@HEALTHNET.COM>d  F Don't forget, 3 can be profitable too if you sue them. That's 2 out of 3.....   Shanes          > David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> on 09/19/2000 10:34:29 PM   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Coma cc:e  ) Subject:  Re: [JAVA] Adobe Acrobat Vieweru     Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: >tK > 3.) I don't get ANY money for any of my VMS systems for a couple of yearsb nowo8 >         So, commercial ware is out of every scope here  : So, shut them down.  You'll get one of 2 possible results.  C The powers that be will not see any problems, and will dump the VMS  systems, and you.  K The powers that be will have their need for the VMS systems shoved up their G noses, or other appropriate parts of the anatomy, and re-consider theirs tight-wad ways.u  G Oh, Ok, there is another possibility.  They just might send Bruno in to  break au few of your fingers.  E 1 out of 3 in your favor.  Not the best odds.  How lucky do you feel?l   Dave :-)   --4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:54:12 -0400/* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>( Subject: Re: [JAVA] Adobe Acrobat Viewer- Message-ID: <39C923F4.E1B67000@tsoft-inc.com>s  " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > H > Don't forget, 3 can be profitable too if you sue them. That's 2 out of > 3..... >  > Shane   M Uh,,, don't think so.  He's not in the US, so the court might decide that not 8 enough fingers were broken, and call in Bubba again. :-)  , Only in the US are the courts totally crazy.   Dave   -- 04 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:41:23 -0500 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com>e( Subject: Re: [JAVA] Adobe Acrobat ViewerO Message-ID: <BAEF4F1670F6CEBC.5AD0BBAE3D349C01.E2F571C033C70509@lp.airnews.net>    Alan Greig wrote:v > D > On 19 Sep 2000 20:06 CST, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote: > , > >A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig) writes... > F > >}Although 1 and 2 seem solid reasons I did notice that the cheapest+ > >}sing;le license was only 150 dollars...  > >} > >}-- > >}Alan Greig > >a5 > >If that is so cheap, why don't you buy it for him?c > >h= > >$150 > $0. Therefore, if you have $0 you can not pay $150.4 > G > I would have thought it obvious that I was making the point that $150d@ > is such a small amount that it would escape any general ban onG > software expenditure in most organisations There can be exceptions ofn > course...a > E > In fact if I actually tried to go through our authorization processiD > for that level of expenditure I'd be told bluntly to stop being so > stupid and just place the PO.w    + So when will we be seeing that PO?  <grin>    G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074i   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.528 ************************