1 INFO-VAX	Thu, 21 Sep 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 529       Contents:/ Advertising for OpenVMS from Executive Software 3 Re: Advertising for OpenVMS from Executive Software 3 Re: Advertising for OpenVMS from Executive Software # Alternative to REPLY/ENABLE=TAPES ? ' Re: Alternative to REPLY/ENABLE=TAPES ? $ Anyone want to port this to VMS? :-)( Re: Anyone want to port this to VMS? :-)C Re: BACKUP error: "-SYSTEM-F-BADATTRIB, bad attribute control list"  Basic freeware CD problems Re: Basic freeware CD problems Re: CETS2000: Buses? Re: CETS2000: Buses? Re: CETS2000: Buses? Re: CETS2000: Buses? Re: CETS2000: Buses? Re: Charron VAX  Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo Re: Compaq VMS promo  Re: Compaq VMS promo (education)  Re: Compaq VMS promo (education) Re: DAT from VAX to Alpha  Re: DAT from VAX to Alpha  Re: DAT from VAX to Alpha , Re: Deleting 250,000+ files from a directory Re: Double Your Downline Re: Duplex Printing ! F$GETSYI for multiple processors? % Re: F$GETSYI for multiple processors? % Re: F$GETSYI for multiple processors? & Fixed length 17 byte record data & RMS* Re: Fixed length 17 byte record data & RMS FREE Submission software2 Re: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)2 Re: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)2 Re: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)2 RE: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)2 RE: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)# HELP ! VMS License Units Question -  Re: Home Built Machine Re: HSZ50 in Hobbyist Cluster / Memo:  Deleting 250,000+ files from a directory  Re: MULTIA + OpenVMS Re: MULTIA + OpenVMS Re: MULTIA + OpenVMS Re: MULTIA + OpenVMS Re: MULTIA + OpenVMS Re: NTP with UCX 4.2 Re: NTP with UCX 4.2 OpenVMS Prior Version Support ! Re: OpenVMS Prior Version Support 4 Oracle Universal Installer info/question (Oracle 8i)# Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships # Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships # Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships # Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships # Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships # Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships ) RSH Problem - Can someone try this for me  Sig tape at CETS2000?  RE: Sig tape at CETS2000? - Re: strlen(), comparisons, unexpected results - Re: strlen(), comparisons, unexpected results ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist  SYSTEM-F-FORCEDEXIT problem  Re: SYSTEM-F-FORCEDEXIT problem  Re: Telnet configuration Re: Telnet configuration Re: Telnet configuration Using shared memory on OpenVMS Re: VAX VMS TO ALPHA Re: VMS and 164LX  VMS Memory Tuning  Re: VMS Memory Tuning 9 Re: WAY OT: Ballistic (was Re: Halon dump - a data point) 9 Re: WAY OT: Ballistic (was Re: Halon dump - a data point)  Re: [JAVA] Adobe Acrobat Viewer  Re: [JAVA] Adobe Acrobat Viewer  Re: [JAVA] Adobe Acrobat Viewer   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 12:53:17 +0000 $ From: Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk8 Subject: Advertising for OpenVMS from Executive Software/ Message-ID: <00256961.004689E9.00@quegw01.btyp>    cc:  bcc:= Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza   / Advertising for OpenVMS from Executive Software     P I know that there are many on this group who dislike Executive Software, but theO NEWSKEEPER newsletter from them (Volume 13 Issue 5) has on its front cover, the N large title "AN OpenVMS RENAISSANCE" with a full page article whic is fullsomeP in its praise for OpenVMS. Also inside another page article on the ORACLE/COMPAQ! e-business Solutions for OpenVMS.   D If this goes out to any non-VMS users, then that's a good thing, no?    Pity Compaq can't do the same...   Steve Spires VMS System Manager BT/Yellow Pages      [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beL confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has beenP addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute or use this transmission.  L Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee is notH intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received thisF transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.  
 Thank you.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:02:01 GMT % From: A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig) < Subject: Re: Advertising for OpenVMS from Executive Software2 Message-ID: <39ca2231.1298765305@news.newsguy.com>  B On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 12:53:17 +0000, Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk wrote:   >cc: >bcc: > >Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza > 0 >Advertising for OpenVMS from Executive Software >  > Q >I know that there are many on this group who dislike Executive Software, but the P >NEWSKEEPER newsletter from them (Volume 13 Issue 5) has on its front cover, theO >large title "AN OpenVMS RENAISSANCE" with a full page article whic is fullsome Q >in its praise for OpenVMS. Also inside another page article on the ORACLE/COMPAQ " >e-business Solutions for OpenVMS.  = Yep saw it as well and scanned it in to post bits: Here's the ! beginning and end of the article:   C Numerous times throughout the last nine years, pundits and industry ; analysts have predicted the end of OpenVMS. But now, to the 5 astonishment of some, OpenVMS is having a resurgence.    [cut]   B And now, many of the analysts that earlier predicted the demise ofD OpenVMS have turned about and are now predicting growth! So those ofA us who have hung in there can pat ourselves on the back, and take B comfort in the fact that OpenVMS will be around for a long time toE come For the latest on OpenVMS, including the new OpenVMS newsletter, 7 the "OpenVMS Times," visit Compaq's OpenVMS Web site at   http://www.openvms.digital.com     --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:31:18 -0400 - From: Niranjan Rajaghatta <hemanir@yahoo.com> < Subject: Re: Advertising for OpenVMS from Executive Software) Message-ID: <39CA45E6.E688637D@yahoo.com>   0 Can somebody scan this page and post it please ?
 Or a url ?   TIA, -RSN  % Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk wrote:    > cc:  > bcc:? > Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza  > 1 > Advertising for OpenVMS from Executive Software  > R > I know that there are many on this group who dislike Executive Software, but theQ > NEWSKEEPER newsletter from them (Volume 13 Issue 5) has on its front cover, the P > large title "AN OpenVMS RENAISSANCE" with a full page article whic is fullsomeR > in its praise for OpenVMS. Also inside another page article on the ORACLE/COMPAQ# > e-business Solutions for OpenVMS.  > F > If this goes out to any non-VMS users, then that's a good thing, no? > " > Pity Compaq can't do the same... >  > Steve Spires > VMS System Manager > BT/Yellow Pages  >  > [Information] -- PostMaster:F > This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beN > confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has beenR > addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute or > use this transmission. > N > Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee is notJ > intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received thisH > transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message. >  > Thank you.   -- Remove "-nospam" to reply.   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:40:29 GMT  From: spolato@my-deja.com , Subject: Alternative to REPLY/ENABLE=TAPES ?) Message-ID: <8qchhq$3at$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   ( I'd like to capture messages like this :  B %BACKUP-W-MOUNTERR, volume 2 on _$2$MKA500 was not mounted because,   its label does not match the one requested3   specify option (QUIT, NEW tape or OVERWRITE tape)   = and receive it in a mail. It could be usefull to me because I 4 do not have always a VMS session open on my desktop.B More generally I'd find usefull to intercept this kind of messages0 and feed DCL procedures for automatic responses.  . Does anyone know how to realize this feature ?B If not, could this feature be included in a next OpenVMS release ?   Thanks for help in advance.   
 Sandro Polato     & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:52:25 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) 0 Subject: Re: Alternative to REPLY/ENABLE=TAPES ?0 Message-ID: <009F0720.F6B0F732@SendSpamHere.ORG>  E In article <8qchhq$3at$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, spolato@my-deja.com writes: ) >I'd like to capture messages like this :  > C >%BACKUP-W-MOUNTERR, volume 2 on _$2$MKA500 was not mounted because - >  its label does not match the one requested 4 >  specify option (QUIT, NEW tape or OVERWRITE tape) > > >and receive it in a mail. It could be usefull to me because I5 >do not have always a VMS session open on my desktop. C >More generally I'd find usefull to intercept this kind of messages 1 >and feed DCL procedures for automatic responses.  > / >Does anyone know how to realize this feature ?    Can you program???    G One simple way would be to create a pseudoterminal (FTAn: device).  The G I/O Users Guide discusses the PTD$ routines used to do this.  Then, use H the $SNDOPR system service and enable this pseudoterminal as an operatorI terminal for TAPE messages.  Parse the messages received on this terminal H and, if it is the BACKUP-W-MOUNTERR, mail the message to the appropriateG user on your system.  The MAIL$ routines Utility Routine manual will be  of assistance here.   C >If not, could this feature be included in a next OpenVMS release ?   G Perhaps, I'm not a representative of Compaq.  However, VMS is very fea- H ture rich.  If there are specific site requirements/needs, the operatingH system has a very large and well documented set of "API"s to allow *you*H the user to write your own custom, unique need, feature to enhance it orG you can look to third-party providers to enhance VMS with products that G they may have.  VMS is not controlled by that outfit in Redmond.  If it H were, you could very likely see your request implemented in some versionF of the software and be called VMS-me, or VMS-you, or VMS-them, or someH such nonsense, but then VMS would become crap bloatware just like every = other bit of crap bloatware emanating from pacific northwest.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM              O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 06:52:24 -0400 0 From: Jim Jennis <jjennis@discovery.fuentez.com>- Subject: Anyone want to port this to VMS? :-) D Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000921065224.009dc7d0@discovery.fuentez.com>   Hi VMS Colleagues!  < Since comp.os.vms seems to have more than it's fair share ofN spammers...thought some of you might enjoy this recent post on segfault.org -    :-)   ? http://www.segfault.org/story.phtml?mode=2&id=39be3756-043cd9e0    Regards,   Jim 8 --------------------------------------------------------7 FSC - Building Better Information Technology Solutions- 7       from the Production Floor to the Customer's Door. 8 --------------------------------------------------------5 Jim Jennis, Technical Director for Commercial Systems  Fuentez Systems Concepts, Inc. 1 Discovery Place, Suite 2 Martinsburg, WV. 25401 USA   # Phone: +001 (304) 263-0163 ext. 235  Fax:   +001 (304) 263-0702% Email: jjennis@discovery.fuentez.com          jhjennis@shentel.net & WEB: http://www.discovery.fuentez.com/   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:47:28 GMT % From: A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig) 1 Subject: Re: Anyone want to port this to VMS? :-) 2 Message-ID: <39ca1ef1.1297933389@news.newsguy.com>  . On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 06:52:24 -0400, Jim Jennis& <jjennis@discovery.fuentez.com> wrote:   >Hi VMS Colleagues!  > = >Since comp.os.vms seems to have more than it's fair share of O >spammers...thought some of you might enjoy this recent post on segfault.org -   >  >:-) > @ >http://www.segfault.org/story.phtml?mode=2&id=39be3756-043cd9e0  = This appears to be a spoof story about Al Gore. Unless you're B suggesting Al Gore could be ported to VMS I think you may have the
 wrong URL.     --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:25:39 -0400 (EDT) 6 From: Horst Drechsel <ai05@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de>L Subject: Re: BACKUP error: "-SYSTEM-F-BADATTRIB, bad attribute control list"= Message-ID: <009F0736.5EC055E9.10@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de>   / In a message of Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:29:46 -0400 ) Received on Thu, 21 Sep 2000 02:29:43 EDT   ( Jonas Lindholm <jlindholm@rcn.com> wrote8 to: Horst Drechsel <drechsel@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.de>  1 >I don't think BACKUP is supported for NFS disks. E >The reason is that NFS mounted disks not have required files such as ; >000000.DIR and INDEXF.SYS as backup need to get access to. K >The NFS client simulate these files but BACKUP need probably get access to  >them without using RMS. > 
 >/Jonas L. >  >Horst Drechsel wrote: > 
 >> Hi all, >>@ >>    after a recent upgrade to OpenVMS 7.2-1 / TCPIP 5.0A on anJ >> AlphaStation 400 4/233 we get an error message when trying a VMS backup# >> of an NFS mounted Linux PC disk:  >>4 >>    The backup command yields the following error: >>* >> $ bac/log dnfs3:[000000...] tom.bck/sav< >> %BACKUP-E-OPENDIR, error opening directory DNFS3:[000000]2 >> -SYSTEM-F-BADATTRIB, bad attribute control listF >> %BACKUP-E-OPENIN, error opening DNFS3:[000000]000000.DIR;1 as input2 >> -SYSTEM-F-BADATTRIB, bad attribute control listC >> %BACKUP-W-NOFILES, no files selected from DNFS3:[000000...]*.*;*  >>J >>    while any other file access operations on this nfs mounted directoryI >> do work normally. We did not have that backup error under the previous & >> version OpenVMS 7.1 / UCX 4.2 Eco 1 >>      Dear Jonas,  F    thanks for your reply. The reason I was wondering is that backup onI nfs disks actually worked before our upgrade (under VMS 7.1-1H1/UCX 4.2). G One should expect that such functionality is not lost after an upgrade. - Maybe there will be a patch around some time.   
    Greetings,                 Horst     --M  **************************************************************************** )   Horst Drechsel                          L   Dr. Remeis Observatory                 drechsel@sternwarte.uni-erlangen.deL   Astronomical Institute                             Phone: +49-951-95222-15L   University Erlangen-Nuernberg                        Fax: +49-951-95222-22*   Sternwartstr.7, D-96049 Bamberg, GermanyM  ****************************************************************************    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:37:32 +0100  From: "laurie" <abd@bdc.com># Subject: Basic freeware CD problems + Message-ID: <8qddgd$qe7$1@trog.dera.gov.uk>   
 Hello all.  G I'm trying to install software off the freewarev30 CD (so that I can do L essential things like zip/unzip files, defrag hard disk etc, since utilitiesG to do these things seem to be missing from the standard installation) . L Having got over the initial 'intouch license expired' problems, I now have a new stumbling block.K Since most of the software has no real instructions on how to install it, I J assume that the images are directly executable. However, when I try to runG unzip or gzip, they run, but won't accept any arguments (with quotes as $ suggested by the unzip help screen). What am I doing wrong?I I had a look at the help for the install command, but that didn't suggest " that it would do anything to help. I am working on Alpha 7.1.   Thanks in advance    ------------------------------    Date: 21 Sep 2000 18:54:40 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)' Subject: Re: Basic freeware CD problemsn* Message-ID: <39ca3d50$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  J In article <8qddgd$qe7$1@trog.dera.gov.uk>, "laurie" <abd@bdc.com> writes:H >I'm trying to install software off the freewarev30 CD (so that I can doM >essential things like zip/unzip files, defrag hard disk etc, since utilitiesMH >to do these things seem to be missing from the standard installation) .M >Having got over the initial 'intouch license expired' problems, I now have aa >new stumbling block.sL >Since most of the software has no real instructions on how to install it, IK >assume that the images are directly executable. However, when I try to run H >unzip or gzip, they run, but won't accept any arguments (with quotes as% >suggested by the unzip help screen).p >What am I doing wrong?VJ >I had a look at the help for the install command, but that didn't suggest# >that it would do anything to help.p >I am working on Alpha 7.1.e  . Go to http://www.openvms.digital.com/freeware/I and load the software from there. It is more current than your CD copy...X   -- h< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888o< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 01:45:52 -0400m7 From: "Information CETS2000" <Information@CETS2000.com>M Subject: Re: CETS2000: Buses?g2 Message-ID: <8qc7a0$8lk$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>  L The CETS buses are being handled by a private contractor and there should be
 no problem...c   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 01:46:47 -0400e7 From: "Information CETS2000" <Information@CETS2000.com>  Subject: Re: CETS2000: Buses?O2 Message-ID: <8qc7ce$vjn$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>  > >     scheduled  to  be  running  Sunday  and  Monday  for the >     pre-symposium seminars   Yesp  E =====================================================================r2 "Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515". <Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU> wrote in message- news:YiKmxatJX8Ge@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu...SJ >         Apropos the busses issue, can anyone confirm whether the shuttleJ >     busses are  scheduled  to  be  running  Sunday  and  Monday  for theJ >     pre-symposium seminars?  I'm _assuming_ they are because it would beJ >     a  real  snafu  if  they weren't, but, as  with  most  other  thingsJ >     CETS2000, it's extremely difficult to implossible to find out on the. >     web site, let alone via e-mail.  Sigh... >u >         -Ken > --/ >  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet:F Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Educ< >  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924< >  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515L >  ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----D >  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Sep 2000 12:14:19 GMTF From: lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman) Subject: Re: CETS2000: Buses?-6 Message-ID: <8qcu2r$gtc$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  0 Although it might not affect the event directly,/ does anyone know if the strike has affected the / Metrolink trains?  (I think that's what they're0 called.)   Thanks.:   -- c(  B. Z. Lederman   Personal Opinions Only  8  Posting to a News group does NOT give anyone permission8  to send me advertising by E-mail or put me on a mailing  list of any kind.  5  Please remove the "DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL" if you have a35  legitimate reason to E-mail a response to this post.    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:29:57 -0400s& From: Ken Robinson <ksrobin@erenj.com> Subject: Re: CETS2000: Buses?-7 Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20000921082821.024d11d0@clmail>n  5 At 12:14 PM 09/21/2000 +0000, Bart Z. Lederman wrote:m  1 >Although it might not affect the event directly,M0 >does anyone know if the strike has affected the0 >Metrolink trains?  (I think that's what they're	 >called.)s  K The LA MTA page <http://www.mta.net> has quite a lot of info about what is e! and isn't affected by the strike.    Ken Robinson ksrobin@erenj.com    ------------------------------   Date: 21 SEP 2000 16:13:26 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher) Subject: Re: CETS2000: Buses?w6 Message-ID: <21SEP00.16132646@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  ^ In a previous article, lederman@star.enet.dec.DISABLE-JUNK-EMAIL.com (Bart Z. Lederman) wrote:  2 ->Although it might not affect the event directly,1 ->does anyone know if the strike has affected theR1 ->Metrolink trains?  (I think that's what they're 
 ->called.)  7 The metrolink trains are running normally according to:0  K http://www.mta.net/corporate/depts/marketing/Strike_Info/Stopage_Notice.htma   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:05:07 -0400f From: stan@stanq.com Subject: Re: Charron VAX- Message-ID: <39C9C133.5081.1815233@localhost>k  * > Anyone got this running on their pc yet?' > I've made it to the >>> prompt, but Is > am not sure what to do next.  E I bought a new PC just so I could run Charon-VAX (I'm testing it for  
 a client).  D You'll have to get a disk image (container file) of a valid VAX VMS F system before you get to the >>> prompt.  Assuming that you made this D entry [0] in the list of the disks that are emulated, you just do a  "B DUA0", like a real VAX.     --Stan  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671h1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147g= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comp   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 07:49:19 GMTg% From: A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig)  Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promob2 Message-ID: <39c9bccd.1272809252@news.newsguy.com>  2 On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 01:58:10 -0400, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:    I >> And at the same time ensure that IT students get to use, and like, VMStK >> at college. Ensure that hardware and software is sufficiently cheap that-@ >> at least some of them can afford to have VMS systems at home. >> tH >> In a few years, you'll have developers who are asking their companiesB >> for VMS development platforms rather than Solaris, Linux or NT. >> a
 >> Regards >> o >> Ian >eP >This is a nice warm and fuzzy idea.  However, I've had people in education tellQ >me that free VMS systems wouldn't get VMS in front of their students, and they'deP >just load Linux on the system.  So, just like the prior question, got any ideas3 >on how to do this in a manner that would succeed?    B Make sure yoiu give the systems (at least at first) to sites which@ were once heavy VMS users and still have VMS advocates currentlyF forced to admin student systems. Appoint a territory VMS ijn educationC manager. Have the machines rever back to Compaq if not put into VMSe
 student use. f   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Sep 2000 09:29:54 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promo . Message-ID: <8qckei$l0q$1@info.service.rug.nl>  E In article <8qb47b$4nn$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.eduf (Bill Gunshannon) writes:   J >Dave and I have had this conversation before, too.  I would be very happyI >to load up a lab with VMS based Workstations.  I can't afford to, but if.J >they were donated, I would gladly do it.  But it still begs the question;) >"What will the students do with them?"  n  G Perhaps I'm not typical.  But I have a research job at a university.  InG write code in Fortran, I write papers in LaTeX, I communicate a lot vianH email, newsgroups, the web etc.  I do everything from my VMS machine, atH least as well as the other folks on unix boxes.  Compilers?  The best inF the world run on VMS, which also has a great debugger.  LaTeX?  One ofF the world's most portable programs, and many of the developers---and IF suspect Lamport himself---are VMS types.  LYNX is my browser of choiceB and works fine on VMS.  (I admit I OCCASIONALLY would like a newerD version of netscape, although pages which require it are usually notG worth accessing anyway.)  I use out-of-the-box VMS mail and NEWSRDR to  I read news---wouldn't want anything else.  I run the OSU web server.  All eF stuff I need for file transfer etc is there---gzip, tar, zip etc, all 1 very good, very stable, even with CLD interfaces.e  G What do people in "labs" need to do that I don't (and can't be done on   VMS)?  Play Quake?  :-)o     --M Phillip Helbig                       Email .............. helbig@astro.rug.nl M Kapteyn Instituut                    Email ................. helbig@man.ac.uktM Rijksuniversiteit Groningen          Tel. ................... +31 50 363 6647RM Postbus 800                          Fax .................... +31 50 363 6100IM NL-9700 AV Groningen                 Web ... http://www.astro.rug.nl/~helbig/_  5 My opinions are not necessarily those of my employer.   N <A HREF=" http://gladia.astro.rug.nl:8000/helbig/hire/hire.html ">HIRE ME!</A>   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:03:28 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)  Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promoh0 Message-ID: <009F0722.8202F961@SendSpamHere.ORG>  [ In article <8qckei$l0q$1@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:?F >In article <8qb47b$4nn$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu >(Bill Gunshannon) writes: c >eK >>Dave and I have had this conversation before, too.  I would be very happyaJ >>to load up a lab with VMS based Workstations.  I can't afford to, but ifK >>they were donated, I would gladly do it.  But it still begs the question;T* >>"What will the students do with them?"   >oH >Perhaps I'm not typical.  But I have a research job at a university.  IH >write code in Fortran, I write papers in LaTeX, I communicate a lot viaI >email, newsgroups, the web etc.  I do everything from my VMS machine, atiI >least as well as the other folks on unix boxes.  Compilers?  The best ineG >the world run on VMS, which also has a great debugger.  LaTeX?  One ofaG >the world's most portable programs, and many of the developers---and IhG >suspect Lamport himself---are VMS types.  LYNX is my browser of choicedC >and works fine on VMS.  (I admit I OCCASIONALLY would like a newereE >version of netscape, although pages which require it are usually notdH >worth accessing anyway.)  I use out-of-the-box VMS mail and NEWSRDR to J >read news---wouldn't want anything else.  I run the OSU web server.  All G >stuff I need for file transfer etc is there---gzip, tar, zip etc, all t2 >very good, very stable, even with CLD interfaces. >-H >What do people in "labs" need to do that I don't (and can't be done on  >VMS)?  Play Quake?  :-)  F YES!  Games of any sort on a company's computers -- specifically thoseF on user's desk tops -- should be grounds for dismissal.  Just think...F If VMS could play Quake, Doom, Super Mario Brothers, etc., your followG slackers might be found out and dismissed if your organization followedgG the aforementioned guideline for dismissal.  You would have to bear themH brunt of the extra workload but, because you were not slacking off play-G ing games and working as you've been paid to do, you are now more valu-e7 able and can command a greater salary!  Oh, to dream...-   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             uO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.-   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Sep 2000 12:42:39 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon), Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promo1, Message-ID: <8qcvnv$11dj$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  O In article <E861E1ECB1C86916.9FFE666F4965477A.8DF82B91AD650D32@lp.airnews.net>,i2  Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes: |>  + |> Don't schools teach programming anymore?2  C I don't see what that has to do with the question at hand, but justcC to answer your question, no, not particualrly.  Trade schools teach2C programming.  We teach Computer Science, which contains programming F in many of it's courses, but programming is not the desired end result of the courses.s   |> eK |> So far this discussion seems to be about teaching students to use cannedhC |> applications and whether or not those applications exist on VMS.w  B No, it's not about teaching them canned applications.  It's about B exposing them to VMS so that when they leave the University and goB out into the real world they actually know there is an option to aB billy box.  The canned applications are needed by the students forC the same reasons they are needed in the real world.  Typing papers,n? creating papers, preparing presentations.  Right now, the only bB products available to do this run on Windows and Unix/Linux boxes.A Space is expensive.  That includes lab space.  If I put VMS boxes @ in a lab now (forgetting the cost for the moment) I also have toA put something else in order to provide the tools my students needtA to get their work done.  If I put a Windows box or a Linux box insA the same lab, all the tools are there.  Which one do you think is A the winner in this??  Haven't you been listening??  The fact thato@ VMS can reliably run a huge Oracle database carries no weight inD this environment.  If VMS is to find it's way back into the academicD mainstream, it must have all the same tools available that the other OSes offer.    |> .J |> How about teaching students to write new applications?  One of the highH |> points of VMS (at least for me) is the debugger.  I haven't found its |> equal on other platforms.  E Well, I'm not going to debate the merits of a debugger, but I've usedrF a number and they all do the job well enough. (At least since the daysF of adb!!)  But that's a trivial part of what computers get used for inG the real world and also in academia.  As for teaching students to write%F new applications, that's what trade schools do.  English class doesn'tE teach (explicitly) how to write a dramatic short story or a SF novel.yD What it teaches are the tools necessary to accomplish these and manyC other tasks.  CS is exactly the same.  We teach tools, concepts and G methods.  Programming for programmings sake is what they teach in trade 	 schools. c   |> wH |> With VMS you can have multiple students coding without worrying about |> crashing the system.s  I Sorry to burst your bubble, but I do that now with VAXen, Sparcs and even F PeeCees running UNIX.  And at the same time, I can have other studentsG writing their thesis and still others running a queueing simulation and E still others creating web pages.  Where are the tools to do this withhG VMS??  See the point? It doesn't matter how superior VMS is.  If I have I a handful of screws, a hammer is not the right tool for the job.  Without * the tools, the machine is just a doorstop.   |> rI |> You also have extensive documentation and even have readable internals* |> documentation.*  B Got all that on Unix too. (And I suppose for Windows, but I'm not B interested enough to actually read any of it.)  Simple task.  DrawC a table with three columns.  Label one Unix, another Windows and a eC third VMS.  Now, start filling in below each the features and tools C that are available for them.  Get the picture??  When a semester issE only 14 weeks long, who cares if the machine is stable enough to staysF up for 14 years.  My Unix Servers here go down once a year.  The same F is true of my VAXen running VMS.  That's when we have the annual powerA maintenance on campus.  The point is, VMS's strengths don't offertC enough to offset the lack of available, desired tools.  Until I cannB do all the same things on VMS that can be done on Windows or Unix,7 VMS will not make it back into the academic mainstream.    |>  H |> With the available (cheap) VAX and AlphaStations, you could even haveC |> systems programming classes that teach privileged mode code withhK |> dedicated machines so that crashes don't hurt anyone.  Compare debugging:J |> NT kernel mode drivers with VMS device drivers.  Both are nasty, but itA |> is much easier to use VMS's tools to figure out what happened.n  C Uhhh, we don't teach kernel level NT either.  How many kernel level:E textbooks are there for NT or VMS??  "Use the source" is a cute catch 4 phrase, but you can't even do that with NT or VMS.     |> eG |> Also, if you get students programming on VMS, you might start seeingnJ |> these applications that people complain are missing.  (OK, so I have an |> ulterior motive.  <grin>)  I But you have it backwards.  The tools already exist.  What doesn't exist oG are the tools on a VMS system.  The users don;t want to port the tools,vE they want to use them.  And until the tools are available on VMS thenaG users (and schools) are going to continue to opt for the machines wheremH those tools exist.  If the same tools and environments were avaialble onF VMS as well as Unix and Windows then the playing field would be level G and VMS would stand a real good chance of winning based on it's obviousdF superiority in other terms of the overall equation.  But right now andF for the foreseeable future, the playing field is badly slanted and VMSF is at the bottom with a very long, hard uphill battle to get where allD the rest are.  And academia, which many see as the best hope for theH future, has absolutely no incentive to change this.  Tha can be changed.E The questions are, who is going to change it and more importantly, is- anyone going to even try??   bill   -- 0J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   p   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Sep 2000 12:47:15 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)n Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promoc, Message-ID: <8qd00j$11dj$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  - In article <39C980B4.F6DDDC25@earthlink.net>, :  "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes: |> Chris Scheers wrote: 	 |> [snip]=- |> > Don't schools teach programming anymore?= |> =9 |> My step daughter corrected me about this last weekend:  |> fH |> "Computer 'Science'" students learn how to use "canned" applications. |> dC |> "Computer Engineering" students learn hardware, architecture andh+ |> programming, including o.s. development.t  A Not in any acredited program.  The only place we teach how to useiD canned applications is in Computer Literacy class.  A freshman levelA course that everyone takes.  I sure hope your not paying for her SD education.  I would expect better than that from our local Community College.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   -   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Sep 2000 12:54:18 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)e Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promoh, Message-ID: <8qd0dq$11dj$3@info.cs.uofs.edu>  2 In article <39c9bccd.1272809252@news.newsguy.com>,(  A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig) writes: |>E |> Make sure yoiu give the systems (at least at first) to sites which0C |> were once heavy VMS users and still have VMS advocates currentlyl$ |> forced to admin student systems.   G I am sure that most other schools are the same as us, in shich case you E are way too late for that.  They are either gone or converted by now.gA VMS has been out of the academic mainstream for too long already.t  I |>                                  Appoint a territory VMS ijn educationtF |> manager. Have the machines rever back to Compaq if not put into VMS |> student use.   D The result of this would be for the schools to turn them down in theG first place.  Space is a very expensive commodity and no one will wasteBD the space for tools that can't do the job.  Until VMS systems can doD all that the current systems are doing (and we're not talking OracleI servers here, we're talking desktops!) VMS will not get back into generalfG academic use.  The majority of college people (students, faculty, staff F and administrators) are really just users.  They want a tool and not a toy.   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   @   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:52:12 +0000 (   )-3 From: Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com>h Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promodJ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10009211448360.28240-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com>  ) On Wed, 20 Sep 2000, Chris Scheers wrote:d  * > Don't schools teach programming anymore?   They claim to...  J > So far this discussion seems to be about teaching students to use cannedB > applications and whether or not those applications exist on VMS.  F As far as I have seen, even the programming courses that are availableI seem to center around the use of one "compiler" -- or, more likely -- one H "integrated development enviroment."  That's much more like teaching theF students to use a canned application than it is teaching them to write
 applications.   1 [good, but irrelevant to my point, stuff snipped]   F > Also, if you get students programming on VMS, you might start seeingI > these applications that people complain are missing.  (OK, so I have ant > ulterior motive.  <grin>)     I I couldn't agree more.  We can always hope that people will come to their3  senses, but probability says no.   Regards,   Chrisk  O ===============================================================================p@ "My two cents"			(http://rootworks.com/twocentsworth.cgi?128562)= Christopher Smith(chriss@pubserv.com)			Prgramer^W ProgrammerC Prime Synergy of Champaign, IL.c% -------------------------------------nI "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes andtH weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes; and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949  O -------------------------------------------------------------------------------    ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:55:56 +0000 (   )m3 From: Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com>S Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promoRJ Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10009211454470.28240-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com>  - On Wed, 20 Sep 2000, David J. Dachtera wrote:   8 > My step daughter corrected me about this last weekend:  G > "Computer 'Science'" students learn how to use "canned" applications.t  B > "Computer Engineering" students learn hardware, architecture and* > programming, including o.s. development.  H So, in other words, computer science (as in the study of the theoretical aspects of computing) is dead?   Chrism  O ===============================================================================C@ "My two cents"			(http://rootworks.com/twocentsworth.cgi?128562)= Christopher Smith(chriss@pubserv.com)			Prgramer^W Programmer  Prime Synergy of Champaign, IL.p% ------------------------------------- I "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes and1H weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes; and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949 uO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------t   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Sep 2000 14:35:40 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)h Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promoy, Message-ID: <8qd6bs$14h4$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  . In article <8qckei$l0q$1@info.service.rug.nl>,-  helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:o |>J |> Perhaps I'm not typical.  But I have a research job at a university.  I3 |> write code in Fortran, I write papers in LaTeX,    J You are definitely not typical, trust me.  I use Fortran. It draws a laughJ every once in a while.  We just dropped the use of Pascal for teaching andK by next semester Ada will be gone too.  Fortran hasn't actually been taughtoJ in over 10 years.  LaTeX??  We have one professor, more of a mathemeticianH and theoreticist who uses it for all his class handouts and even for theK assignements he puts up on his web page.  But administrative stuff is stilliK done using Word because what would the Dean do with a LaTeX document on hisc Office2000 based PC??z  K |>                                                  I communicate a lot viapK |> email, newsgroups, the web etc.  I do everything from my VMS machine, atk3 |> least as well as the other folks on unix boxes.    E That is a matter of opinion, actually.  And the people who need to be B won over don't share that opinion.  The trick isn't to convert VMSF people, it's to bring in the unwashed.  And when they look at Word20002 and compare it to LaTeX, which do you think wins??  K |>                                                  Compilers?  The best in.: |> the world run on VMS, which also has a great debugger.   H Believe it or not, compiling programs is one of the lowest use functionsI of computers, even in a CS program.  We are 4 weeks into the semester and 8 CS II has yet to have a single programming assignment.    I |>                                                         LaTeX?  One of2I |> the world's most portable programs, and many of the developers---and Il, |> suspect Lamport himself---are VMS types.   G So then, why is it that every PC comes with Word and not one comes with G LaTeX??  Do you honestly expect the world is going to change the way it J does things because LaTeX is the superior way of doing it??  Be realistic.H People have an ingrained perception of how this stuff should be done and) it does not include text editors and TeX.>  aH |>                                          LYNX is my browser of choice |> and works fine on VMS.   J That's interesting considering the BSD guys dumped it as too full of holes) and to much effort needed to clean it up.   oD |>                        (I admit I OCCASIONALLY would like a newerG |> version of netscape, although pages which require it are usually nota |> worth accessing anyway.)   I Again, a matter of opinion and not one shared by the majority of computer- users worldwide.  I |>                          I use out-of-the-box VMS mail and NEWSRDR to fL |> read news---wouldn't want anything else.  I run the OSU web server.  All I |> stuff I need for file transfer etc is there---gzip, tar, zip etc, all .4 |> very good, very stable, even with CLD interfaces.  H Gzip? Tar? Zip?  Where did they come from??  This is exactly what I haveK been saying.  I fthe tools are available people will use VMS.  Just becauseoH your list of tools is so small doesn't make it common to the majority ofF users.  They are used to GUI's and don't want to go back to text basedF systems.  If VMS doesn't provide what they need and want, someone else" will.  And who will be the loser??   |> sJ |> What do people in "labs" need to do that I don't (and can't be done on  |> VMS)?  Play Quake?  :-)  G There's no Quake on any of the machines in my labs.  There are not evenhG the default games that ship with windows.  What is there??  Office2000.rI GNAT/AdaGide.  jGrasp.  Visual Studio. Visio. OTW (a UML Tool). X-windows L software. Netscape.  Language? C, C++, Ada, Java.  I don't pick these tools.G (Heaven knows I wouldn't pick some of them if it was my choice!!)  But PF that's what they use.  And until VMS has the equivalent functionality J (and that doesn't mean text based tools that can generate the same output)= the people who make the decisions will choose something else.0   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   e   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Sep 2000 17:31:13 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER) Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promoc* Message-ID: <39ca29c1$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  ` In article <8qd6bs$14h4$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:H >So then, why is it that every PC comes with Word and not one comes withH >LaTeX??  Do you honestly expect the world is going to change the way itK >does things because LaTeX is the superior way of doing it??  Be realistic.n  I Every PC comes with word because M$ did a good job forcing every PC clone'G vendor to include MegaShits products and paying (licence) money for it. G And this happens despite the fact that you do want to run another opsysi4 like LINUX/NetBSD/OpenBSD/BeOS/... on this hardware.  G As long as major computer vendors does not (maybe exclusiveley) delivereF their hardware with LINUX preinstalled and for a couple of bucks less,C M$ will continue to grow because Joe User gets what he paid for andp most likely not want he wanted.l  G Who can compare prices for eg. W2K vs BeOS, while you have to pay M$ ino? every buy. Only Apples and now Alphas, too are M$ royalty free.t   --  < Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888 < <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:25:15 -0600t- From: Lorin Ricker <Lorin.Ricker@t-netix.com>a Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promol; Message-ID: <418E68E524A8D311ACCE00508B78866A768164@DENXCH>)  J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C023E8.862394BCn Content-Type: text/plain;a 	charset="iso-8859-1"'   Chris Scheers wrote:  * > Don't schools teach programming anymore?  3 > So far this discussion seems to be about teaching 4 > students to use canned applications and whether or& > not those applications exist on VMS.  8 > How about teaching students to write new applications?8 > One of the high points of VMS (at least for me) is the: > debugger.  I haven't found its equal on other platforms.  E IMHO, no, they don't teach *programming* (i.e., true computer sciencehJ skills, at least not as I remember them from the '60s and '70s) anymore...K In the course of several years of trying to hire young(er) professionals to I work in our product space (jail management systems on VMS and Rdb), it isXK *very* hard to find anyone qualified at entry-level application programmings (3GL).  B With the apparent emphasis on "using canned (MS) applications" andK point-&-clicking VB objects together (i.e., "programming by side effects"),tI what's been lost is any awareness of "algorithm + data = programs" in thet3 sense that Prof. Wirth, et al, originally intended.m  L The point at which academia lost this thread correlates well with the demiseH of VMS and DEC equipment (and influence) in favor of un*x and, later, MSI workstations.  And I can't emphasize enough how frustrating it is to wadelI through resume after resume which merely includes various and numerous "Io- can use MS-* (insert arbitrary PC app here)".o  G Sorry to sound so harsh (don't mean to fan the flames here), but I *do*fJ think that this issue of loss of VMS (and other CS-strong technologies andL products) in the universities does go directly to the heart of the matter...H i.e., why a superior environment like VMS has lost so much ground today.  J It's a root-cause matter, I think:  If it's not taught during professionalL formative years (in college), then it'll be discounted, ignored, unfulfilled, out in the real world (business & industry).  J Conversely, this should serve to focus any good intentions from Compaq:  AD key to any resurgence strategy for VMS *must* be to get it back intoH academia, and to help influence CS curricula to get "back to the basics"H which were prevalent a couple of decades ago.  Oh, how much ground we've lost during the '90s!e  . Just MHO... your mileage may vary.  Regards...  @ Lorin Ricker                            Lorin.Ricker@T-NETIX.com
 Lock&Track5 T-NETIX, Inc.                           (303)705-5575e 67 Inverness Drive Eastk8 Englewood, Colorado 80112      http://www.LockTrack.com/  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C023E8.862394BC  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1"A+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printabley  1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">o <HTML> <HEAD>9 <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =  charset=3Diso-8859-1">@ <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
 5.5.2650.12">e# <TITLE>Re: Compaq VMS promo</TITLE>t </HEAD>h <BODY>  - <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Chris Scheers wrote:</FONT>n </P>  F <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Don't schools teach programming anymore?</FONT> </P>  A <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; So far this discussion seems to be about =  teaching</FONT>sI <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; students to use canned applications and whether =n	 or</FONT>oC <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; not those applications exist on VMS.</FONT>s </P>  A <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; How about teaching students to write new =h applications?</FONT>I <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; One of the high points of VMS (at least for me) =o
 is the</FONT> F <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; debugger.&nbsp; I haven't found its equal on = other platforms.</FONT>n </P>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>IMHO, no, they don't teach *programming* (i.e., true =H computer science skills, at least not as I remember them from the '60s =G and '70s) anymore... In the course of several years of trying to hire = G young(er) professionals to work in our product space (jail management =eH systems on VMS and Rdb), it is *very* hard to find anyone qualified at =5 entry-level application programming (3GL).</FONT></P>-  I <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>With the apparent emphasis on &quot;using canned (MS) =uH applications&quot; and point-&amp;-clicking VB objects together (i.e., =C &quot;programming by side effects&quot;), what's been lost is any =aE awareness of &quot;algorithm + data =3D programs&quot; in the sense =s8 that Prof. Wirth, et al, originally intended.</FONT></P>  @ <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The point at which academia lost this thread =? correlates well with the demise of VMS and DEC equipment (and = F influence) in favor of un*x and, later, MS workstations.&nbsp; And I =E can't emphasize enough how frustrating it is to wade through resume =tI after resume which merely includes various and numerous &quot;I can use =n5 MS-* (insert arbitrary PC app here)&quot;.</FONT></P>m  I <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sorry to sound so harsh (don't mean to fan the flames = C here), but I *do* think that this issue of loss of VMS (and other = B CS-strong technologies and products) in the universities does go =I directly to the heart of the matter... i.e., why a superior environment =o2 like VMS has lost so much ground today.</FONT></P>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>It's a root-cause matter, I think:&nbsp; If it's not =H taught during professional formative years (in college), then it'll be =H discounted, ignored, unfulfilled out in the real world (business &amp; = industry).</FONT></P>j  C <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Conversely, this should serve to focus any good =mH intentions from Compaq:&nbsp; A key to any resurgence strategy for VMS =B *must* be to get it back into academia, and to help influence CS =H curricula to get &quot;back to the basics&quot; which were prevalent a =H couple of decades ago.&nbsp; Oh, how much ground we've lost during the = '90s!</FONT></P>  < <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Just MHO... your mileage may vary.&nbsp; = Regards...</FONT>o </P>   <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Lorin =oI Ricker&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;= I &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=o8 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Lorin.Ricker@T-NETIX.com</FONT>( <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Lock&amp;Track</FONT> <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>T-NETIX, =vI Inc.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=nI bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=d% bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (303)705-5575</FONT>v1 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>67 Inverness Drive East</FONT> ( <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Englewood, Colorado =( 80112&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A =$ HREF=3D"http://www.LockTrack.com/" =6 TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.LockTrack.com/</A></FONT> </P>   </BODY>n </HTML> ) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C023E8.862394BC--    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:37:03 -0600d- From: Lorin Ricker <Lorin.Ricker@t-netix.com>e Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promo ; Message-ID: <418E68E524A8D311ACCE00508B78866A768166@DENXCH>a  J This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand< this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.  ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C023EA.2C2893700 Content-Type: text/plain;W 	charset="iso-8859-1"S   David J. Dachtera wrote:  + >> Don't schools teach programming anymore?t  8 > My step daughter corrected me about this last weekend:  9 > "Computer 'Science'" students learn how to use "canned"s > applications.i  > > "Computer Engineering" students learn hardware, architecture. > and programming, including o.s. development.  I Ah, I now stand corrected!  Thanks for the clarification.  I'll notify myo) HR/personnel department immediately!  ;-)   ' ------_=_NextPart_001_01C023EA.2C289370t Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1"o+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   1 <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">o <HTML> <HEAD>9 <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =. charset=3Diso-8859-1">@ <META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
 5.5.2650.12">e# <TITLE>Re: Compaq VMS promo</TITLE>  </HEAD>t <BODY>  1 <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>David J. Dachtera wrote:</FONT>= </P>  < <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;&gt; Don't schools teach programming = anymore?</FONT>r </P>  F <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; My step daughter corrected me about this last = weekend:</FONT>  </P>  F <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &quot;Computer 'Science'&quot; students learn =$ how to use &quot;canned&quot;</FONT>, <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; applications.</FONT> </P>  H <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; &quot;Computer Engineering&quot; students learn = hardware, architecture</FONT> 9 <BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; and programming, including o.s. =- development.</FONT>- </P>  C <P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Ah, I now stand corrected!&nbsp; Thanks for the =0= clarification.&nbsp; I'll notify my HR/personnel department =S immediately!&nbsp; ;-)</FONT>R </P>   </BODY>n </HTML>5) ------_=_NextPart_001_01C023EA.2C289370--.   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Sep 2000 14:24:02 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promoe+ Message-ID: <Cca1SFdg$mbc@eisner.decus.org>   k In article <418E68E524A8D311ACCE00508B78866A768164@DENXCH>, Lorin Ricker <Lorin.Ricker@t-netix.com> writes:.   > Chris Scheers wrote: > + >> Don't schools teach programming anymore?l > 4 >> So far this discussion seems to be about teaching5 >> students to use canned applications and whether or=' >> not those applications exist on VMS.o > 9 >> How about teaching students to write new applications?p9 >> One of the high points of VMS (at least for me) is thep; >> debugger.  I haven't found its equal on other platforms.c > G > IMHO, no, they don't teach *programming* (i.e., true computer scienceoL > skills, at least not as I remember them from the '60s and '70s) anymore...M > In the course of several years of trying to hire young(er) professionals to-K > work in our product space (jail management systems on VMS and Rdb), it is-M > *very* hard to find anyone qualified at entry-level application programmings > (3GL). > D > With the apparent emphasis on "using canned (MS) applications" andM > point-&-clicking VB objects together (i.e., "programming by side effects"),lK > what's been lost is any awareness of "algorithm + data = programs" in thej5 > sense that Prof. Wirth, et al, originally intended.t > N > The point at which academia lost this thread correlates well with the demiseJ > of VMS and DEC equipment (and influence) in favor of un*x and, later, MSK > workstations.  And I can't emphasize enough how frustrating it is to wadelK > through resume after resume which merely includes various and numerous "Im/ > can use MS-* (insert arbitrary PC app here)".l > I > Sorry to sound so harsh (don't mean to fan the flames here), but I *do* L > think that this issue of loss of VMS (and other CS-strong technologies andN > products) in the universities does go directly to the heart of the matter...J > i.e., why a superior environment like VMS has lost so much ground today. > L > It's a root-cause matter, I think:  If it's not taught during professionalN > formative years (in college), then it'll be discounted, ignored, unfulfilled. > out in the real world (business & industry). > L > Conversely, this should serve to focus any good intentions from Compaq:  AF > key to any resurgence strategy for VMS *must* be to get it back intoJ > academia, and to help influence CS curricula to get "back to the basics"J > which were prevalent a couple of decades ago.  Oh, how much ground we've > lost during the '90s!, > 0 > Just MHO... your mileage may vary.  Regards... >   ; 	Lorin... I feel your pain.  But checking my old ama matters( 	reveals they only dumbed it down a bit:  # http://www.cs.widener.edu/csci.html   ; 	There is still enough math to choke a horse and my old fav G 	symbolic logic is still required.  If someone has a "Computer Science"l< 	degree , one would expect a similar background.  Don't knowB 	what is with the Physical Ed courses the freshman year.  Strange.  E 	I agree in general with what you say.  But the pool is a fixed size tC 	although recent rags report a jump in Comp Sci college folks so we H 	can probably expect an across the board dumbing down as you are seeing. 	dB 	The class I was in (small program, joined 1 semester late) had 12F 	or so Comp Sci freshmen.  Upon graduation, there was ONE student fromG 	the original freshman class.  The rest transferred into MIS or dropped B 	to another major.  The graduating Comp Sci class had a number of C 	transfers from other universities.  So long term , what do you do?n@ 	You either make programs easier OR churn out small volumes.  WeA 	can see where things are headed, can't we?  Any wonder why pointe= 	and click is the rage?   (Note:  not flame bait... point and @ 	click ties into where we are.  Dread the day when "they" decideB 	the Space Shuttle can be point and click also <-- insert favorite 	disaster waiting to happen).o     				Robe   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:34:06 GMTe= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)f Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promoa0 Message-ID: <009F0759.14009937@SendSpamHere.ORG>  k In article <418E68E524A8D311ACCE00508B78866A768164@DENXCH>, Lorin Ricker <Lorin.Ricker@t-netix.com> writes:.K >This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understandf= >this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.l >A( >------_=_NextPart_001_01C023E8.862394BC >Content-Type: text/plain; >	charset="iso-8859-1" >t >Chris Scheers wrote:  >y+ >> Don't schools teach programming anymore?e >c4 >> So far this discussion seems to be about teaching5 >> students to use canned applications and whether or0' >> not those applications exist on VMS.. >s9 >> How about teaching students to write new applications?u9 >> One of the high points of VMS (at least for me) is the ; >> debugger.  I haven't found its equal on other platforms.t > F >IMHO, no, they don't teach *programming* (i.e., true computer scienceK >skills, at least not as I remember them from the '60s and '70s) anymore...hL >In the course of several years of trying to hire young(er) professionals toJ >work in our product space (jail management systems on VMS and Rdb), it is  G I thought jail mgt. was 6 gorilla-sized guards with clubs to one inmater" with wrist and ankle shackles.  ;)   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             pO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.m   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:33:15 +0100q< From: John Macallister <j.macallister1@physics.oxford.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promo 7 Message-ID: <000921183315.3972@nplvms.physics.ox.ac.uk>   C At one time it was necessary to learn a programming language to get E  anything out of a computer. Nowadays most people, including schools,eD  can concentrate on their applications without the need to learn any  programming language.  C If your career involves writing applications for computers you will G  need programming languages but most people can be experts in their own @  fields now without any significant programming language skills.   John   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:45:04 GMTt+ From: jcring@switch.com (John C. Ring, Jr.)s Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promow, Message-ID: <8qdhm7$hss$1@usenet.switch.com>  W In article <Cca1SFdg$mbc@eisner.decus.org>, young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) wrote:a >tC >        Lorin... I feel your pain.  But checking my old ama mattert0 >        reveals they only dumbed it down a bit: > $ >http://www.cs.widener.edu/csci.html >nC >        There is still enough math to choke a horse and my old favl* >        symbolic logic is still required.  O http://www.juniata.edu/registrar/poes/computerscience.htm still has a healthly h dose of mathematics as well :)   -------------------------- John C. Ring, Jr.- jcring@switch.coma' Web and Network Technologies Specialistm Union Switch & Signal Inc.   "In other words, the State does nothing to create value; the value is created by respondents' funds." -- US Supreme Court in PHILLIPS vs. WASHINGTON LEGAL FOUNDATION (96-1578)e   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:23:41 GMT-% From: A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig) ) Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promo (education)82 Message-ID: <39c9dfc6.1281763037@news.newsguy.com>  A On 20 Sep 2000 15:52:42 GMT, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (Davidt Mathog) wrote:     >tF >With respect to the academic market Digital pretty much shot VMS (andI >itself) in the head.  With a bazooka.  Getting off life support (really, F >back out of the grave) and into a healthy state again would require aJ >strong commitment by Compaq, a tremendous amount of work, and a sustainedK >long range strategy.  I'm not saying that it isn't possible, but given the J >record so far of Compaq's upper management, I'd put the odds at something% >like 100 to 1 against it happening. o  D If I were jobless at the moment I'd love the chance to jumpstart VMSB in education again. I'd start with the Universities which once hadF heavy VMS usage. In Scotland for example, Abertay, St. Andrews, HeriotC Watt, Strathclyde. I'd give them a DS20 configured wth everything ImC could think of and just let students play with it unrestricted (noni priv!)   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Sep 2000 14:50:48 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)e) Subject: Re: Compaq VMS promo (education)t, Message-ID: <8qd788$14h4$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  2 In article <39c9dfc6.1281763037@news.newsguy.com>,(  A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig) writes: |> rG |> If I were jobless at the moment I'd love the chance to jumpstart VMStE |> in education again. I'd start with the Universities which once hadnI |> heavy VMS usage. In Scotland for example, Abertay, St. Andrews, HeriottF |> Watt, Strathclyde. I'd give them a DS20 configured wth everything IF |> could think of and just let students play with it unrestricted (non	 |> priv!)   D Well, unless they are doing a lot better than the rest of the world,C they would probably not do it.  At best, it would end up sitting iniA a corner somewhere with no users and probably not even turned on.s  G Space is too valuable to waste on machines with no particular function.t8 Electricity isn't free.  Neither is room conditioning.    B And contrary to popular belief, students in any serious program atD any real school don't have time to "play with it unrestricted".  TheD ones who would have this time are not the kind of students you want E to sell VMS to because they are not going to end out in the decision    makers positions in later years.   bill   -- aJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   t   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:53:45 +0000D- From: ezzaoudi med <m.ezzaoudi@digitem.co.ma>E" Subject: Re: DAT from VAX to Alpha- Message-ID: <39C9CC99.DA3FC215@digitem.co.ma>3  @ No problem , just a question before I receive somme tapes writed in VAX VMS.C
 Thanks a lot.<   Lee Gillie a =E9crit :  D > Yes, we do it all the time.  What kind of problems are you having? >D > --F > ___________________________________________________________________= ___gF > Lee Gillie, CCP                                Remove NOSPAM to E-M= ailIF > Online Data Processing, Inc. - 3501 N. Haven -  Spokane, WA 99207-8= 500B >F< > "ezzaoudi med" <m.ezzaoudi@digitem.co.ma> wrote in message) > news:39C8D086.D86386E6@digitem.co.ma...t > > HiD > > Can I read a DAT tape writed on VAX VMS in my ALPHA VMS System ?
 > > Thanks > >  > >s   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:03:49 +0000g- From: ezzaoudi med <m.ezzaoudi@digitem.co.ma> " Subject: Re: DAT from VAX to Alpha- Message-ID: <39C9CEF5.10E92A1A@digitem.co.ma>n   OK Mr HOFFMAN.
 Thank you.   Hoff Hoffman a =E9crit :  F > In article <NQ4y5.275$Ok4.14062@sea-read.news.verio.net>, "Lee Gill= ie" <Lee@NOSPAModp.com> writes:  > :Yes, we do it all the time. >o5 >   Assuming compatible DDS (DAT) drives, this works.d >b( > :What kind of problems are you having? > F >   Yes, a very good question.  This is probably either a case where = thereDF >   is some question around if something _will_ work, or this is a ca= seF >   where something is _not_ working and there is some desire to find=  out/ >   why and what can be done to make it work...  >r= > :"ezzaoudi med" <m.ezzaoudi@digitem.co.ma> wrote in message * > :news:39C8D086.D86386E6@digitem.co.ma...E > :> Can I read a DAT tape writed on VAX VMS in my ALPHA VMS System ?t > F >   Please: that question is far too terse for a meaningful answer --=  withlF >   a terse question, you might well get a correct answer, but it mig= ht notF >   be the answer to the question that you intended to ask.  In addit= ionhF >   to asking a specific question, please remember to give us a littl= etD >   background: OpenVMS version(s) and platform(s), what problem youE >   are looking to solve, any error message(s) or command(s), and (inhF >   cases such as this) the specific DAT widget(s) involved.  This ex= tratD >   information is like an error-correcting code (ECC), it helps youF >   better communicate the question so that you are more likely to ge= td! >   the answer you need.  Thanks!> >sF >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ----------------= -----------iF >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zk=	 o.dec.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:18:11 +0000o- From: ezzaoudi med <m.ezzaoudi@digitem.co.ma>m" Subject: Re: DAT from VAX to Alpha- Message-ID: <39C9D253.F3A470CE@digitem.co.ma>b   Thank you for this information.    Alan Frisbie a =E9crit :  / > In article <39C8D086.D86386E6@digitem.co.ma>,e1 > ezzaoudi med <m.ezzaoudi@digitem.co.ma> writes:h >mD > > Can I read a DAT tape writed on VAX VMS in my ALPHA VMS System ? >>7 > In general, yes.   This assumes that the drives/tapesO > are physically compatible. >o= > If, for example, you have a TLZ09 on the VAX and a TLZ06 onn; > the Alpha, you will have a problem if you used compaction;! > (compression) or DDS-120 tapes.n >;5 > If, on the other hand, you used DDS-60 tapes and no># > compaction, you can read them OK.  >>; > By observing these rules I am able to move DAT tapes back;A > and forth between Alpha and VAX VMS systems on a regular basis.s >n > --D > --  Alan E. Frisbie             Frisbie "AT" Flying-Disk "DOT" ComB > --  Flying Disk Systems, Inc.   Abuse "AT" Flying-Disk "DOT" Com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:49:19 -0400=# From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>=5 Subject: Re: Deleting 250,000+ files from a directory>+ Message-ID: <39CA11DF.FB930681@hsc.vcu.edu>r  i you can do a dir/size:all of the dir, sort it in reverse order, trim off the extraneous info in a editor,  and turn it into a delete com file....  for a one-shot deal like this, that is probably the fastest solution you can comeup with...  now, it won't run as fast as dfu, but the simplicity of it and the fact it can run in batch w/o your attention, gives it a tinyb peice of merit..   jimx   Matt Jacobs wrote: > J > An errant process added 250,000+ small files to a single directory on my > Alpha. > K > I am using a single process to delete them (delete *.*;*).  The files areb. > being deleted at the rate of 5,000 per hour. > N > I cannot reformat the disk.  Does anyone have any suggestions on how to more > quickly delete the files?t >  > TIA. >  >     Matt Jacobsg   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:53:58 +0000 (   )I3 From: Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com> ! Subject: Re: Double Your Downline3J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10009211452500.28240-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com>  0 On 21 Sep 2000 mustang@ucc.asn.au.invalid wrote:  2 > I grokked the subject as double your downtime...  % As did I, and I'm sure many others...D  9 > I thought someone was roasting Andrew Harrison again :)o  ( Yes, but that was in a different thread.  - > ( Long time lurker and recent VMS convert )E   Congradulations.   ChrisO  O ===============================================================================n@ "My two cents"			(http://rootworks.com/twocentsworth.cgi?128562)= Christopher Smith(chriss@pubserv.com)			Prgramer^W Programmer  Prime Synergy of Champaign, IL.T% -------------------------------------&I "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes andEH weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes; and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949 eO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:37:57 +0100 < From: John Macallister <j.macallister1@physics.oxford.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Duplex Printing7 Message-ID: <000921103757.853a@nplvms.physics.ox.ac.uk>P  F > Has anyone had success printing duplex to an HP8100 using the telnet > symbiont?2  I If the HP8100 has a duplex unit installed and duplex printing is enabled ME  on the printer you don't have to do anything special at the VMS end.1   John   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:07:37 -0400m From: stan@stanq.com* Subject: F$GETSYI for multiple processors?. Message-ID: <39C9C1C9.15384.1839D22@localhost>  F Is there is a parameter that I can specify to F$GETSYI to find out if 2 the system is single-processor or multi-processor?     --Stan  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671S1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comt   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:44:26 -0400a. From: "Kenneth Randell" <kenr@datametrics.com>. Subject: Re: F$GETSYI for multiple processors?+ Message-ID: <8qd37v$9ai$1@bob.news.rcn.net>i  # How about F$GETSYI("AVAILCPU_CNT").s  C Note however that on VMS 7.2 or later and you are running a GALAXY, K the definition of this seems to have changed, so you only get the number ofsJ CPUs in the current instance.  If you want the total number of CPUs in the= box, then you would want to use F$GETSYI("POTENTIALCPU_CNT").o   Ken RandellnL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------  E stan@stanq.com wrote in message <39C9C1C9.15384.1839D22@localhost>...eE Is there is a parameter that I can specify to F$GETSYI to find out if 2 the system is single-processor or multi-processor?     --Stan  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671e1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147a= Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.comm   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:52:44 GMT % From: A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig)s. Subject: Re: F$GETSYI for multiple processors?2 Message-ID: <39ca202a.1298246279@news.newsguy.com>  9 On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:07:37 -0400, stan@stanq.com wrote:   G >Is there is a parameter that I can specify to F$GETSYI to find out if i3 >the system is single-processor or multi-processor?i  6 f$getsyi("activecpu_cnt") and f$getsyi("availcpu_cnt")  C These jump out at you if you type $ HELP LEX F$GETSYI ARGUMENT. Notg sure how you could miss them?      --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:18:52 GMTl From: rocoto@my-deja.com/ Subject: Fixed length 17 byte record data & RMSt) Message-ID: <8qd8s4$ug7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>u  H Yesterday, I found an interesting RMS feature..... The following command file demonstrates it.r  3 $ if f$search("aa.dat").nes."" then delete aa.dat.*s $ copy nl: aa.daty $ set file aa.dat/att=rfm=fix/ $ set file aa.dat/att=lrl=34 $ rec1x = "This is 17 bytes!"  $ rec2x=rec1x+rec1xm $ open/append aa aa.dati $ write aa rec2x $ write aa rec2x $ write aa rec2x $ write aa rec2x $ write aa rec2x $ write aa rec2x
 $ close aa $ set file aa.dat/att=lrl=17 $ typ aa.dat  B I received a file in binary format that was _really_ 61-byte fixedF length records -- needless to say, the above demonstrated feature made> recovery of the file data a little more om... interesting.  :)  G Does anyone have any suggestions on how to convince RMS that I _really_m- _really_ _really_ *want* an unaligned record?c   -- DavidU    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.s   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Sep 2000 12:45:10 -05002 From: malmberg@eisner.decus.org (John E. Malmberg)3 Subject: Re: Fixed length 17 byte record data & RMS + Message-ID: <9TF6pmCi3oMi@eisner.decus.org>a  D In article <8qd8s4$ug7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, rocoto@my-deja.com writes:J > Yesterday, I found an interesting RMS feature..... The following command > file demonstrates it.i   <snip>   D > I received a file in binary format that was _really_ 61-byte fixedH > length records -- needless to say, the above demonstrated feature made@ > recovery of the file data a little more om... interesting.  :) > I > Does anyone have any suggestions on how to convince RMS that I _really_V/ > _really_ _really_ *want* an unaligned record?-  I RMS is documented as requiring an even number of bytes for a fixed length0 record file.  K The solution on how to recover or use the file you received depends on youri application.  M Try setting the record length to 122 byte fixed length records, and then reade two records at a time.  O Note that some programs when opening a binary file completely ignore the recordrH characteristics, and will be happy with what ever settings that you use.   -Johng wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:49:59 -0400 (EDT)c- From: Glen Chartrau <free_submission@usa.net>n! Subject: FREE Submission softwaretD Message-ID: <20000921124959.13535.qmail@nwcst091.netaddress.usa.net>  G *********************************************************************** F Do you find it tedious & time consuming promoting your Website URL & =  C Description to all those search engines, FFA & classified ad sites.   - http://www.angelfire.com/pa4/mck/freesub.html   F At ALWAYS FREEsubmit you can submit a website URL & ad to 7,304 searchH engines, FFA & Classified ads sites for FREE! Why waste your time & hard, earned money when we do it for you for FREE?  G Download our FREE software NOW! & save your precious time for something  more important.   4 Visit: http://www.angelfire.com/pa4/mck/freesub.htmlG ***********************************************************************                 ; ***********************************************************3+ I RECEIVED YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS AS SOMEONE =s  + INTERESTED IN MONEY MAKING OPPORTUNITIES. =   - IF I HAVE RECEIVED YOUR E-MAIL IN ERROR, OR =.  * YOU ARE NO LONGER INTERESTED, PLEASE REPLY WITH REMOVE IN THE SUBJECT. =g  + IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS MULTIPLE TIMES ITd, IS BECAUSE YOU HAVE MULTIPLE EMAIL ADDRESSES$ I APOLOGIZE FOR ANY INCONVENIENCE. =  < ************************************************************      D ____________________________________________________________________J Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1i   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:33:02 GMT-% From: A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig)0; Subject: Re: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo):2 Message-ID: <39c9d3c1.1278685121@news.newsguy.com>  4 On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:11:35 -0400, "Ebinger . Eric" <EEbinger@drc.com> wrote:s   >(@ >Rdb is ONLY available as Enterprise (there is no Rdb standard).    Not true. From the Oracle Store: http://oraclestore.oracle.com/cec/cstage?eccookie=@eccookie@&ecaction=ecpassthru&p_key_value=help_licensing&template=help.en.htm#licensing   For Named Users     ? Oracle Database Standard Edition and Rdb Standard Edition - ThegE required minimum is an initial transaction minimum of 5 Named Users. tD Oracle Database Enterprise Edition - The required minimum is 1 NamedF User for every 30 UPUs. If you are licensing by Named User, follow the@ instructions below to calculate the minimum number of named userF licenses required for your intended hardware configuration or click to& use the named user minimum calculator.    9  H >The only licensing options available are named user and UPU (capacity).E >If you have an Rdb application on your web server that gets ten hits F >a day you have a choice between buying a name user license for anyone/ >who might ever use it or paying the UPU price.c  A Not true. Otherwise a web based app would need to be licensed foreE every singe person in the world. Info on the Oracle web site makes ittC quite clear that if a web server is accessing the database then theaE named user count refers to the maximum number of incoming connectionsb& that can ne generated at any one time.   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:02:52 GMT % From: A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig)g; Subject: Re: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)i2 Message-ID: <39c9da41.1280349365@news.newsguy.com>  4 On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:12:53 -0400, "Ebinger . Eric" <EEbinger@drc.com> wrote:t    / >Rdb is only available in Enterprise edition.  e  A Again see my previous post qouting from the Oracle web site whichm contradicts this.w  B >VMS is not on the list of supported systems for standard edition.  >Your 3rd option does not apply.  D Just to clarify a bit futher: We actually have Oracle RDB,  Oracle 8F and Oracle DBMS on VMS We went through all the issues with Oracle whenD we upgraded from VAX to Alpha and we have counted licenses in place.E At first I was quoted ludicrous prices but challenged them and OraclerD sales discovered they were mistaken. I agree it is *very* confusing.  6 Yes it's still expensive but no longer ludicrously so.     --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:06:22 GMTm% From: A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig)W; Subject: Re: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)i2 Message-ID: <39c9dd22.1281086474@news.newsguy.com>  4 On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:17:10 -0400, "Ebinger . Eric" <EEbinger@drc.com> wrote:a     >eK >What is certain is that Rdb is 10x as expensive as Oracle standard editiontH >on an Intel system (assuming both systems run at the same speed - Mhz).  B No it's not certain. You having an opinion does not equal absoluteD certainty. Just because the information is not easily available from6 the web site (to you) does not mean it does not exist.     --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:08:59 -0400d) From: "Ebinger . Eric" <EEbinger@drc.com>s; Subject: RE: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)oB Message-ID: <7162F87E9EF4D311BA9900805FC1D3AE7A6200@and02.drc.com>  H The "Rdb standard edition" was Rdb on NT.  Which is no longer a product.F The only way you can get quoted a price for Rdb Standard Edition is ifG the Oracle salesman makes a mistake.  The information on the Oracle web / site is, according to Rdb marketing, incorrect.-   Eric Ebinger   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: A.Greig@virgin.net [mailto:A.Greig@virgin.net], > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 5:33 AM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com3= > Subject: Re: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)r >  > 6 > On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:11:35 -0400, "Ebinger . Eric" > <EEbinger@drc.com> wrote:  >  > >dB > >Rdb is ONLY available as Enterprise (there is no Rdb standard). > " > Not true. From the Oracle Store:@ > http://oraclestore.oracle.com/cec/cstage?eccookie=@eccookie@&eL caction=ecpassthru&p_key_value=help_licensing&template=help.en.htm#licensing >  > For Named Users  >  > A > Oracle Database Standard Edition and Rdb Standard Edition - TheDG > required minimum is an initial transaction minimum of 5 Named Users. oF > Oracle Database Enterprise Edition - The required minimum is 1 NamedH > User for every 30 UPUs. If you are licensing by Named User, follow theB > instructions below to calculate the minimum number of named userH > licenses required for your intended hardware configuration or click to( > use the named user minimum calculator. >  >  e > ? > >The only licensing options available are named user and UPU N
 > (capacity).rG > >If you have an Rdb application on your web server that gets ten hitsDH > >a day you have a choice between buying a name user license for anyone1 > >who might ever use it or paying the UPU price.e > C > Not true. Otherwise a web based app would need to be licensed foriG > every singe person in the world. Info on the Oracle web site makes ittE > quite clear that if a web server is accessing the database then theeG > named user count refers to the maximum number of incoming connectionse( > that can ne generated at any one time. >  > -- > Alan Greig >    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:17:16 -0400q) From: "Ebinger . Eric" <EEbinger@drc.com>n; Subject: RE: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)cB Message-ID: <7162F87E9EF4D311BA9900805FC1D3AE7A6201@and02.drc.com>   > -----Original Message-----6 > From: A.Greig@virgin.net [mailto:A.Greig@virgin.net]6 > On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:12:53 -0400, "Ebinger . Eric" > <EEbinger@drc.com> wrote:  >  > 1 > >Rdb is only available in Enterprise edition.  g > C > Again see my previous post qouting from the Oracle web site whichd > contradicts this.s > D > >VMS is not on the list of supported systems for standard edition." > >Your 3rd option does not apply. > F > Just to clarify a bit futher: We actually have Oracle RDB,  Oracle 8H > and Oracle DBMS on VMS We went through all the issues with Oracle whenF > we upgraded from VAX to Alpha and we have counted licenses in place.G > At first I was quoted ludicrous prices but challenged them and OracleaF > sales discovered they were mistaken. I agree it is *very* confusing. > 8 > Yes it's still expensive but no longer ludicrously so. >    You are not listening.    L It is only in the last year that concurrent licensing has been discontinued.  G Before that happened, I was able to transfer licenses from VAX to AlphacJ at an affordable price.  Now that the concurrent licenses have disappearedE we would need to purchase UPU based licenses to support our web basede
 applications.c  E If you have trouble with the concept that Oracle Rdb is prohibitivelya	 expensive 3 I suggest you contact Oracle Rdb Marketing.  I did.a       Eric Ebinger Dynamics Research Corporationf   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 07:37:12 -0400e% From: "Islandco" <sales@islandco.com>r, Subject: HELP ! VMS License Units Question -/ Message-ID: <ssjrumc1f2k506@corp.supernews.com>l  L Can someone kindly advise me of the "actual" meaning behind the OpenVMS base licensem "units"l  L The Alpha PWS500 I have in here has OpenVMS base (QL-MT1AE-6X) 12 units, butH a Customer said he needed 15(Ql-MT1AE-63) to make DECwindows work on his	 APWS500auu  I Now I have loaded DECwindows many many times and have never had a problem3   Any info would be appreciated    Am I missing something ???  2 Kindly email me with info at dbturner@islandco.com     David            -- Island Computers US Corporation. 2700 Gregory Streeta	 Suite 150, Savannah GA 31404h Tel: 912 447 6622y Fax: 912 201 0096. sales@islandco.com www.islandco.com  C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential andnJ may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.H They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whomE they are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended*
 recipient,G please notify Island Computers US Corp immediately and then delete thisr message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copyingt of this message is prohibited.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 07:59:16 -04001% From: "Islandco" <sales@islandco.com>  Subject: Re: Home Built Machine / Message-ID: <ssjt82fvav9la4@corp.supernews.com>   F Just for the fun of it, we ordered some Axxion Boxes and have some NEW1 cheap PX164LX motheboards with 533Mhz 21164 cpu'sk  - I built it myself in about 1 hour + load timed     Configured it as follows:.  F AXXION DL-17 Chassis (no soldering etc required - also has correct ATX cutout and 400W p/s)G PC164LX 533Mhz with 2mb on board cache - had to load SRM (LX164SRM.ROM)u 2 x 128Mb PC100 DIMM Qlogic QLA10400 NCR53C810 PCI card SCSI-2 narrow for Tape and CD ELSA Gloria Synergy PCI 8mb" 4Gb UW SCSI Seagate ST34371W DE500-BA Ethernet DEC 10/100 RRD46-AB 12x SCSI DEC CD-ROM Regular Floppy 1.4mb  * I put an active terminator on the Wide Bus. Terminated the SCSI CD-ROM with Parity Enabled  J Put the CD into DKA400 ( I don't know why it wanted to call it DKA instead of DKB)n And chocks awaya   Worked first timet  @ Loaded ELSA drivers as described in www.islandco.com/support.htm  B Then the DECwindows Logon prompt came on just like any other Alpha  " Tested it for a wee while - Good !   David        Island Computers US Corporation  2700 Gregory Streetr	 Suite 150s Savannah GA 31404. Tel: 912 447 6622: Fax: 912 201 0096e sales@islandco.com www.islandco.com  C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential and0J may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.H They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whomE they are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended-
 recipient,G please notify Island Computers US Corp immediately and then delete this  message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copyingi of this message is prohibited.     ----- Original Message -----< From: Dale Lobb <lordgeep@nospam.inetnebr.nospam.com.nospam> Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsa* Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 1:02 AM Subject: Home Built Machine???    
 > Hi All!!H > Has anyone attempted to build thier own Alpha OpenVMS machine from theE UP1500 or UP2000 motherboards available from Alpha Processor?  I just:H finished reading a bunch of the tech notes on thier site, and while theyI don't specifically say that OpenVMS is supported by the newer boards, allnG the boards run the SRM console, and the console firmware revisions look7L similar to ones I seem to recall from recent firmware upgrades on my ES40 atJ work.  I realize that it is completly unsupported, but does anyone want to< hazard an informed guess as to the possibilities of success? >a > Thanks for the insights..... >T > Dale > I > P.S. for personal e-mail, remove all "nospam"s from the return address.- >- >- >  >-       -- Island Computers US Corporation  2700 Gregory Street2	 Suite 150> Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622n Fax: 912 201 0096I sales@islandco.com www.islandco.com  C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential andaJ may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.H They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whomE they are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended,
 recipient,G please notify Island Computers US Corp immediately and then delete thisT message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copyingn of this message is prohibited.   ------------------------------   Date: 21 SEP 2000 16:17:38 GMT4 From: karcher@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu (Carl Karcher)& Subject: Re: HSZ50 in Hobbyist Cluster6 Message-ID: <21SEP00.16173855@thuria.waisman.wisc.edu>  @ In a previous article, Jay Olson <jjo@triton.com.no.spam> wrote: -> hF ->Hopefully, that means the HSZ22 in the Raid Array 3000 (RA3000) willI ->still be supported. I am thinking of buying one of these, and I hope itu$ ->is not obsolete before it arrives.  7 The HSZ22 was not mentioned in the "retirement" letter.t   I wrote: > ...nH > Specifically, it's the only "HS*30,40,50 and RA410/450" being retired.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:14:43 +0100 , From: Paul BEAUDOIN <paul.beaudoin@hsbc.com>8 Subject: Memo:  Deleting 250,000+ files from a directory? Message-ID: <80256961.002D4188.00@emea-smtp-03.systems.uk.hsbc>a  
 Try this|:@ Get the directory listing to a file and sort it in reverse order (alphabeticaly (z-a))a: Convert each file name to a delete command and execute it.C Should be much faster as you are now deleting bottom to top and thet' directory file does not have to shufflee% the remaining entries around so much.r? Good luck  - and don't forget to kill the errant user/programmeo .o      D ********************************************************************B  This message and any attachments are confidential to the ordinaryB  user of the e-mail address to which it was addressed and may also>  be privileged. If you are not the addressee you may not copy,8  forward, disclose or use any part of the message or itsC  attachments and if you have received this message in error, please1B  notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete it from
  your system.M  =  Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be secure or A  error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost,6>  arrive late or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not?  accept liability for any errors or omissions in the context of ?  this message which arise as a result of Internet transmission.    D  Any opinions contained in this message are those of the author and ?  are not given or endorsed by the HSBC Group company or office b=  through which this message is sent unless otherwise clearly oA  indicated in this message and the authority of the author to so .3  bind the HSBC entity referred to is duly verified.e  D ********************************************************************   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:40:39 GMTe% From: A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig)e Subject: Re: MULTIA + OpenVMSh2 Message-ID: <39c9e463.1282943344@news.newsguy.com>  1 On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 02:59:50 GMT, "Zane H. Healy" # <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote:u  + >fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:eL >> Is anyone  using MULTIA + OpenVMS ? I am collecting some information overI >> the net and it sounds a good machine ! I know OpenVMS is not supportedn >> under8 >> OpenVMS by Compaq but it costs only US$ 60,00 (???) ! >t, >> Compaq should relaunch this machine !!!!! > M >I think a couple people have managed to get it running OpenVMS.  However, itu  E I would guess the numbers are in the hundreds if not thousands. Therea4 are a couple of us in the room I'm sitting in alone!  L >is not that great of a system.  While its formfactor is nice it is given toL >heat problems, and it is one of the slowest, if not the slowest Alphas ever  B We've never seen any heat problems but I have heard of them. TrickE seems to be *not* to run it with the cover off as you lose the forced*E convection cooling. Alternatively stick it in a bigger case with fan.L  M >made.  If you can find one for $60, beware it almost definitly will not haveVK >RAM, and that's going to cost a lot.  You'll need a minimum of 64MB of RAME >to run OpenVMS on it.  D Yep memory can be expensive but you can probably pick it up used for$ next to nothing if you shop around.    >LM >Personally I'd recommend the Turbo Channel DEC3000/300LX before a Multia for*F >running OpenVMS.  While it's only 125Mhz the 300LX is a pretty snappyJ >feeling machine when it's got enough RAM in it (OK, got to admit I've not! >tried running DECwindows on it).-  B Sandard multia's are 150 Mhz but the motherboard will handle up to 300Mhz or thereabouts.   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:34:59 GMT.% From: A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig)  Subject: Re: MULTIA + OpenVMSi2 Message-ID: <39c9e324.1282624095@news.newsguy.com>  # On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:46:29 -0300, * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:  J >Is anyone  using MULTIA + OpenVMS ? I am collecting some information overG >the net and it sounds a good machine ! I know OpenVMS is not supportedg >under6 >OpenVMS by Compaq but it costs only US$ 60,00 (???) ! >S* >Compaq should relaunch this machine !!!!!  ? When the machine was  first announced my then employer intended = ordering 30 running VMS. Then we found out it was politicallyeE prevented from doing so. This employer was a University. Thus DigitaloB drove another nail in the VMS academic coffin. There was no way weF could afford 30 3000 series workstations for the intended application.  D Witrh the current hobby VMS support it sure does make a nice machine for the price.   >Fabio Cardoso >Analista de Suporte >p >c >o >n   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Sep 2000 14:06:33 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: MULTIA + OpenVMSe6 Message-ID: <8qd4l9$i6d$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  x In article <OF70E5CA14.5E1A2715-ON83256961.000995AB@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br>, fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br writes:J :Is anyone  using MULTIA + OpenVMS ? I am collecting some information over& :the net and it sounds a good machine.  C   Please see the OpenVMS FAQ.  Some of the Multia box does work as  0   expected, but various I/O widgets do not work.  9 :I know OpenVMS is not supported under OpenVMS by Compaq.   C   How much effort do you want to expend to keep it running, and howuD   much skill do you have working with the hardware and the low-levelD   OpenVMS software?  If you are willing, then Multia is a reasonableH   choice.  If you are not experienced and/or willing to learn, it isn't.  E   Also, I don't know that there has been anything even approaching a sE   commitment to provide a Multia kit for newer OpenVMS releases -- it A   would be nice to have, but this might or might not ever happen.   $ :but it costs only US$ 60,00 (???) !  A   There are other cheap/old/used Alpha systems that ARE supportede@   by OpenVMS, and that don't have the limits of the Multia.  The@   prices on the new bottom-end EV6 boxes such as the AlphaServer>   DS10 do tend to limit the prices for the used Alpha systems.  % :Compaq should relaunch this machine.   H   Forget that, the design and the internals of the box are just too old.  I   DP264 and the UP2000 and a couple of other boards are good choices for  C   OpenVMS hobbyists -- the Multia is very old and slow and limited.>   : !!!!!   H   Please practice exclamation point conservation, lest the spammers run F   us all out of this very rare and scarce character-set resource.  :-)  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Sep 2000 17:17:16 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: MULTIA + OpenVMS-6 Message-ID: <8qdfqs$kjg$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  k In article <GQey5.560$F93.211177@typhoon.aracnet.com>, "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes:oM :Personally I'd recommend the Turbo Channel DEC3000/300LX before a Multia forR :running OpenVMS...w  G   I'd recommend a PCI-based box before a TURBOchannel-based box, as it e'   is rather easier to find PCI widgets.   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:54:43 +0100   From: steven.reece@quintiles.com Subject: Re: MULTIA + OpenVMS3H Message-ID: <OF355883BF.FC027457-ON80256961.005739CF@qedi.quintiles.com>  I I've tried V6.2-1H3 with DECwindows, UCX 4.2 and DECnet Phase IV on a DECw% 3000-600 workstation and that's nice.b> It does have about 180MB of memory in it though IIRC (128+64).  ; Zane Healy (healyzh at shellone dot aracnet dot com) wrote:eK >>>Personally I'd recommend the Turbo Channel DEC3000/300LX before a Multiae for.E running OpenVMS.  While it's only 125Mhz the 300LX is a pretty snappynI feeling machine when it's got enough RAM in it (OK, got to admit I've noti# tried running DECwindows on it).<<<r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 19:48:47 +1200d4 From: "Mike Tock" <hiding_me@don't_spam.hotmail.com> Subject: Re: NTP with UCX 4.2t* Message-ID: <8qce8a$rmf$1@news.ihug.co.nz>  D "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@nnnoospam.met.co.nz> wrote in message) news:wCby5.640$O7.18456@ozemail.com.au...m9 > We've got it working here with the same version and 7.1v >aJ Excellent, at least I know it does work now. The host you are time syncing$ off is unix and using NTP version 3?  K If you could paste a copy of the ntp.conf you are using and prehaps a small K segment of the log file so I know what I should be seeing, then maybe I can H get it to work on the alpha 2000 running v6.2-1h3 before trying the v7.1 production machine.O  E > WOn't be upgrading (again) to 5.0a until we can get some assurances A > about NFS. That aside, the rest of the machines on 5.0a seem tom  > be working a whole lot better. >cC > You need 5.0a if you have any linux boxes that telnet to your vms-? > hosts. We found that each telnet session would use 30% of theqH > cpu, therefore 3 telnets, would have your whole cpu all to themselves.  L Good sounds like I don't need to go to v5.0a then.  Only linux machines thatI get near vms is being connected to from the vms host and only then 1 at an time.>   Cheers   Mike   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:37:45 +0200@5 From: Oswald Knoppers <Oswald.Knoppers@whitehouse.nl>n Subject: Re: NTP with UCX 4.2i- Message-ID: <39C9BAC9.2FAA4049@whitehouse.nl>w   Mike Tock wrote:  a> > As as an aside, is it worth upgrading from UCX 4.2 to 5.0a??  E Yes, the ntp on V5 is the xNTP V3 implementation. There are also some G management tools shipped with this version so you can actually see whate ntp is doing...e   Oswald   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:36:10 -0400v5 From: "Sue Skonetski" <susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam>u& Subject: OpenVMS Prior Version Support6 Message-ID: <8qd2pu$hu5$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>   Dear Newsgroup,n  G I thought you might find this information useful.  I have approval from  services to post this.  
 Sue Skonetski 2 __________________________________________________  ( Prior Version Support (PVS) Announcement! Release date:  September 20, 2000h    . RE:  Prior Version Support for V5.5-2 and V6.2  F We are pleased to announce that Compaq will be extending Prior VersionL Support, Sustaining Engineering (PVS-SE) coverage for OpenVMS VAX V5.5-2 andI OpenVMS VAX and Alpha V6.2.  When it becomes necessary to end PVS for thecJ 5.5-2 and 6.2 versions, 24 months notification will be given to customers.J This notification will be provided via the Compaq Software Legacy Web Site% that is located at the following URLsm; http://www.compaq.com/services/software/ss_pvs_se_amap.html ; http://www.compaq.com/services/software/ss_mps_pvs_eur.htmlv  L Prior Version Support Sustaining Engineering provides full remedial support,H including phone or e-mail access to technical experts; on-line access toF tools and technical information, tested software patches; and criticalJ on-site support problem escalation to the Compaq product engineering group
 as necessary.3  K In response to your requests, with regard to OVMS versions other than 5.5-2lH and 6.2, (which were addressed above), we would like to clarify that theJ OpenVMS Prior Version Support Sustaining Engineering Policy is as follows:  L Compaq will provide Prior Version Support Sustaining Engineering on the lastD maintenance release associated with any given version of OpenVMS forG eighteen (18) months.  After that time, only Prior Version Support BesttI Endeavor  will be available.   Best Endeavor Support is contingent on thehJ availability of local expertise and does not include problem escalation to Compaq product engineering.a     OpenVMS VAXo Version Begin PVS-SE End PVS-SEi+ V5.5-2 01 Oct 1996 With 24 mos notificationo) V6.2 01 Apr 1998 With 24 mos notification  V7.1 01 Jul 2000 31 Dec 20017 V7.2 12 mos after V7.3 ship 18 mos after entry into PVS0  
 OpenVMS Alpha1 Version Begin PVS-SE End PVS-SEo) V6.2 01 Apr 1998 With 24 mos notificatione V7.1 N/A N/A V7.1-2 01 Jul 2000 31 Dec 2001 V7.2 N/A N/A9 V7.2-1 12 mos after V7.3 ship 18 mos after entry into PVSW   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:14:14 -0400n  From: norm.raphael@jamesbury.com* Subject: Re: OpenVMS Prior Version Support4 Message-ID: <C2256961.004D9A49.00@jklh21.valmet.com>   Thanks, Sue!        7 susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam on 09/21/2000 09:36:10 AM(   To:M cc:u' Subject:  OpenVMS Prior Version SupportC         Dear Newsgroup,a  G I thought you might find this information useful.  I have approval from4 services to post this.  
 Sue Skonetski-2 __________________________________________________  ( Prior Version Support (PVS) Announcement! Release date:  September 20, 2000E    . RE:  Prior Version Support for V5.5-2 and V6.2   {snip}   ------------------------------  + Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:14:39 +0000 (GMT)d, From: Bill McLaughlin <mcbill20@hotmail.com>= Subject: Oracle Universal Installer info/question (Oracle 8i)i5 Message-ID: <F267tpNebT9s4ddqN1900000c7c@hotmail.com>!  E Hello all. Last night I spent many hours trying to install Oracle 8i  K (8.1.6.0.0) on a VMS 7.2 system. I had read the documentation and verified @L that the Oracle user and sysgen parameters were set correctly. Based on the I docs, it looked like using the new "Oracle Universal Installer" with the s* Xwindows interface would be the way to go.   After startingthe installer: $ @cdrom:[oui]oui.com K I got one message asking if I wanted to read the release notes. I said no, iK as I had already read them. A few seconds later, I got the message "Out of  # memory, exiting" and it terminated.i  I After being on hold with Oracle for 20 minutes, I got someone who didn't eI seem very technical. He searched knowledgebase and found an article that nC said I would need a page file quota between 750,000  and 1,000,000.t  M I changed this (unfortunately, without looking carefuly at the free space in oL the paging files) and restarted the installer. Naturally, everything on the J system slowed to a crawl and I had to eventually kill the program. I then I added another large page file, rebooted and tried again. Everything went sL much faster and I went through the installation procedure.  As of 8:00 this M morning, it was still running, supposed linking but hardly any CPU was being e6 used. Al the processes seemed normal (no MWAIT, etc.).  I This machine has 128mb and a 266mhz cpu. It's not the fastest alpha, but a certainly a reasonable machine.i  K So, to finally get to the point-- Has anyone successfully installed Oracle fL 8i Enterprise Edition using the uinversal installer? If so, how long did it 5 take and on what type of machine? Any other gotcha's?G  M I can always go back to using oracleins but I was really hoping that the new 0 installer would work correctly.a  L The universal installer actually runs under java. It can use the JDK if one M is installed but also comes bundled with the JRE (Java Runtime Environment). hK On this particular machine, the JRE uses approximately 30% of the CPU even a0 when sitting at a prompt waiting for user input.  J One really cool thing they did was error recovery. A few minutes into the A install, a popup window came up saying that due to some bug, the ,M ORAINVENTORY directory had not been set to a protection of RWED and it asked -F me to go to another window and set it to O:RWED and then click on the 1 continue button. I checked, and the file was set:: (s:rwe,o:rwe,g:rwe,w:rwe).K After changing the protection, I clicked on continue and everything seemed rI OK; that is I got to the next level of prompts.  I only mention this for eI other's attempting this install. Also, I thought it was pretty cool. You  I expect this type of error message and recovery in the VMS environment of eI course; but typically with a UNIX or windows app, you simply get a terse  M message (like the "out of memory" error above and the application terminates n and you have to start over.-  I I'm sorry this is so verbose, but I figured more info is better than not   enough.u   Thanks.o Bill McLaughlin:I _________________________________________________________________________0I Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.o  D Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at  http://profiles.msn.com.   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:17:26 +0100m0 From: "Roger Evans" <news.reader@corkursa.co.uk>, Subject: Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships# Message-ID: <8qcd2p$68k$1@gxsn.com>k  = "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote in message*0 news:RBgy5.565$F93.212840@typhoon.aracnet.com...0 > David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> wrote:< > > Which would mean that it would be a "legacy" system  ;-? >eL > I thought Windows was a legacy system.  After all it's based on DOS, whichJ > was originally a rip-off of CP/M which unless I'm very mistaken is older > than VMS.  :^) > L > Seriously though, doesn't Windows have warnings about not using it in lifeL > threatening situations?  Or is that just certain MS products, or have they > discontinued that practice?r >e  C The only one I'm aware of in the EULA is the requirement by Sun foroL Microsoft to state that java technology is not fault tolerant, and so is not2 designed for life support, nuclear facilities etc.   Roger. --4 The only thing to do with good advice is pass it on;" it is never of any use to oneself.   Remove the cork to reply....   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 02:32:12 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>, Subject: Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships- Message-ID: <39C9AB6C.7A7645F2@tsoft-inc.com>e   "Larry D Bohan, Jr" wrote: > 2 > more dollars from US taxpayers, buying the best. > = > this just boggles the imagination, methinks.   Scary stuff.  > / > http://www.gcn.com/vol19_no27/dod/2868-1.htmle > ..C > Using a particular operating system to run a score of operations,.A > rather than several legacy systems, will let the Navy train its D > sailors to use one OS, Lockwood said. In the Navy, "there s been a@ > consistent mindset to take costs out from the beginning,  when > designing ships. > B > Lockheed Martin officials chose Microsoft in part because of theE > company s "experience in computers, networks and systems,  Lockwood(E > said. "We felt that Microsoft had a lot of insight  that could helpaC > Lockheed Martin stay current with commercial technology, he said.   P I would have expected just a little bit better from Lockheed Martin.  Maybe someK of the blame should be the alienation of the education people by DEC in the & 80s.  What else do the new hires know?  = > "This is a new area for us,  said Keith Hodson, a MicrosoftoF > Government spokesman. "Windows-based products have not traditionallyC > been associated with Defense Department-specific mission-critical  > applications.  > F > Windows-based software could help the Navy reduce personnel it needsF > to run a carrier, said Willie Williamson, a retired two-star admiralD > who s Microsoft Government s business strategy executive director.  6 Well, now we know why he's retired.  Senile and worse.  D > Williamson commanded the USS Nimitz during Operation Desert Storm,F > and he commanded the John F. Kennedy Battlegroup during a deployment= > to the Mediterranean and Pacific less than three years ago.n  M Good thing his ships weren't involved.  He just had to wait for the aircraft.   F > It takes 1,000 sailors "just to get a ship moving,  Williamson said.B > Microsoft software could let the ship s crew know when there s aF > pending failure in a ships engineering system, for example, he said.  4 The first impending failure would be the MS systems.  F > Lockheed Martin will use Microsoft OSes for operator workstations in> > flight crew ready rooms, as well as systems including radar,! > aircraft and weapons launchers,o  M Oh boy!  Now there's a disaster in the making.  Once this happens, I wouldn'tn- fly near any oceans.  The skys won't be safe.a  O Fighting against the US Navy will be easy in the future.  They'll never be ablenM to hit an enemy, the system will BSOD before the missle reaches it's target. eN It'll probably hit a friendly ship.  Just get them started, and the MS systems will wipe out their own ships.  $ > sensors, ship network connectivity > and aircraft control..  P The FAA won't let MS shit near any aircraft.  Guess the Navy ranks significantly= lower in intellegence, and that'd be in the negative numbers.c  . > The Navy also will use Microsoft software to+ > run more mundane programs, Lockwood said.    Not after they are sunk.  B > Lockheed Martin s Newport News subcontract is worth $500 million" > over seven years, Lockwood said.  J Here's the real story.  Someone used influence to do this.  If there's any# honesty in QC, it'll never go live.$   -- n4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:28:03 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)i, Subject: Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships0 Message-ID: <009F071D.8F2EAC1B@SendSpamHere.ORG>  V In article <8qcd2p$68k$1@gxsn.com>, "Roger Evans" <news.reader@corkursa.co.uk> writes:> >"Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote in message1 >news:RBgy5.565$F93.212840@typhoon.aracnet.com...e1 >> David B Sneddon <dbsneddon@bigpond.com> wrote:r= >> > Which would mean that it would be a "legacy" system  ;-?n >>M >> I thought Windows was a legacy system.  After all it's based on DOS, whichaK >> was originally a rip-off of CP/M which unless I'm very mistaken is older  >> than VMS.  :^)n >>M >> Seriously though, doesn't Windows have warnings about not using it in lifepM >> threatening situations?  Or is that just certain MS products, or have theyc >> discontinued that practice? >> > D >The only one I'm aware of in the EULA is the requirement by Sun forM >Microsoft to state that java technology is not fault tolerant, and so is nots3 >designed for life support, nuclear facilities etc.   ( OK.  Here's a funny thought to ponder...  K I spent about 6 years contracting to the Naval Air Eng. Center in LakehurstnK NJ (yes, the Hindenburg place).  Many friends still work there and they arerK going hog-heavy into JAVA.  So, there's a good chance that whatever they'rerK developing there will find its way onto aircraft carriers -- probably thosenK same carriers now reported to be running on the Redmond enhanced Sony Play- K Station-like O/Ss.  ...B-14... Hit!  You sunk my battleship...  C'mon, thisp is not a game!   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             8O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 07:22:41 -0400r0 From: Jim Jennis <jjennis@discovery.fuentez.com>, Subject: Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy shipsD Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000921072241.009e2d20@discovery.fuentez.com>  ' At 02:32 AM 9/21/2000 -0400, you wrote:e >"Larry D Bohan, Jr" wrote:- >> -3 >> more dollars from US taxpayers, buying the best.  >>  > >> this just boggles the imagination, methinks.   Scary stuff. >>  0 >> http://www.gcn.com/vol19_no27/dod/2868-1.html Wow!! Simply Amazing!   G Lockheed-Martin has been in trouble for cost over-runs and poor project-E management before, but this one takes the cake! Can't wait to see thee results when it goes to sea.  C Talk about the ultimate platform for gamers...this is Duke Nukem on'K Steroids! Imagine being able to launch cruise missiles and REALLY nuke youraI enemies via an email message in the right Outlook mailbox! This will have'> every VB (Virus Builder) script kiddie on the planet drooling!  @ In order to serve on this baby, you'll have to have a backgroundK investigation to make sure you can't write VB or VBA scripts (or maybe then . again it'll be a don't ask, don't tell thing).   :-)-   Regards,   Jim-    8 --------------------------------------------------------7 FSC - Building Better Information Technology Solutions- 7       from the Production Floor to the Customer's Door.A8 --------------------------------------------------------5 Jim Jennis, Technical Director for Commercial Systems  Fuentez Systems Concepts, Inc. 1 Discovery Place, Suite 2 Martinsburg, WV. 25401 USAi  # Phone: +001 (304) 263-0163 ext. 235s Fax:   +001 (304) 263-0702% Email: jjennis@discovery.fuentez.com a        jhjennis@shentel.net & WEB: http://www.discovery.fuentez.com/   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:19:21 +0100 / From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>y, Subject: Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships7 Message-ID: <009F0757.04331A1A.25@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>n   > E > Has Microsoft yet demonstrated the ability to improve the stabilitye% > of ANY of their operating systems ?  > E > I've heard comments about how NT is about where VMS was after being B > on the market the same number of years. A reminder of how stableE > VMS 4.x was usually fogs up those Redmond rose-colored glasses wornd' > by the "one would hope" IT PHBs/MGMs.  > 6 > --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own) >   F 4.x? Heck, I think VMS 2.0 could have beaten NT4 SP6a for reliability.C (Personally I think that SP5 is more reliable than 6A. The cynic inmF my says they needed to add bugs to encourage the migration to W2K. No,& they couldn't do that ... could they?)  M Back on VMS 3.x, there was a bug fixed which caused the system to crash if a nG process clocked up in excess of 2^32 pagefaults. (Overflow checking notiI disabled in kernel). It was spotted because someone's lab control process J was pagefaulting at such a rate that it crashed twice, and someone noticedF that the boot-to-crash time was almost exactly the same in both cases F (about eight months). That system was almost certainly running 2.x, asA had it been undergoing normal upgrades the pattern would not haveN- emerged (and probably not the crash either). o  I This also proves that way back, someone *expected* VMS to have an MTBF ink excess of eight months.   - Then there's that Irish railways VAX 750 ....p   	Yours,n
 		Nigel Arnote- 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                   V  7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."o   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:05:05 GMTi$ From: jmf9@po.cwru.edu (Jon Fiedler), Subject: Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships, Message-ID: <39ca3f77.8352019@news.cwru.edu>  5 On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 01:47:07 GMT, "Larry D Bohan, Jr"v" <LBohan@dbc.spam_less..com> wrote:  5 >more dollars from US taxpayers, buying the best.      >t< >this just boggles the imagination, methinks.   Scary stuff. >s  ! Agreed.  Favorite pair of quotes:/  A >Lockheed Martin officials chose Microsoft in part because of theoD >company s "experience in computers, networks and systems,  Lockwood >said.5 >                                                    s< >"This is a new area for us,  said Keith Hodson, a MicrosoftE >Government spokesman. "Windows-based products have not traditionallytB >been associated with Defense Department-specific mission-critical >applications. M >e  E So which is it?  Does M$ have experience or not?  One of these people  is not telling the truth.p   Jonr   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:20:38 GMTq From: thefantom@my-deja.comu2 Subject: RSH Problem - Can someone try this for me) Message-ID: <8qcqtq$d98$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   	 Try this,r  8 From a windows NT 4 Machine command prompt (dos)enter :-8 (REXEC works in the same way as RSH but with a password)  ( REXEC VaxNodeName -l username -n WAIT 10  , (you will be prompted for your vax password)   if you get the error :  % Recv failed: Connection reset by peere  5 Can you please explain the reason and give a solution4        & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.7   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:59:14 -0700i From: James.F.Duff@fhs.com Subject: Sig tape at CETS2000?C Message-ID: <OF6AC82CBE.F96544A6-ON88256961.005CFA93@HEALTHNET.COM>   E Does anyone know if someone will be putting a SIG tape (CD?) togethera at CETS2000?  D I want to know if I should bring a submission (that is, if I can get+ our legal department to buy off in time ;-)    Jim: -- James.F.Duff@healthnet.com Pure personal opinion6   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:19:41 -0400o; From: "Everhart, Glenn (FUSA)" <GlennEverhart@FirstUSA.com>:" Subject: RE: Sig tape at CETS2000?N Message-ID: <4B279CF3578CD211B945009027178017046CFF63@swilnts809.wil.fusa.com>  % Sigtape submissions should be sent to. Glenn C. Everhart (that's me)_ Everhart@gce.com   156 Clark Farm Rd  Smyrna, Del 19977p 302 659 0460  8 If they are over about 5 megs please contact me first if+ mailing; having material bounce is no help.}  8 I can read many media types. The Fall 2000 collection is7 under construction. The S2000 collection got sent out ao6 few weeks ago; I believe the Fall 1999 and Spring 2000/ collections will be sold together at the event.N  : It is much preferred that correspondence be to the address above. Thanks.i Glenn C. Everhart = OVMS SIG Tapecopy Coordinator (and RSX SIG TC Coord emeritus)n     -----Original Message-----8 From: James.F.Duff@fhs.com [mailto:James.F.Duff@fhs.com]+ Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 12:59 PMU To: Info-VAX@MVB.SAIC.COMe Subject: Sig tape at CETS2000?        E Does anyone know if someone will be putting a SIG tape (CD?) togethern at CETS2000?  D I want to know if I should bring a submission (that is, if I can get+ our legal department to buy off in time ;-)s   Jimu -- James.F.Duff@healthnet.com Pure personal opinione   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Sep 2000 09:51:24 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)6 Subject: Re: strlen(), comparisons, unexpected results+ Message-ID: <9VB8UB7bP36R@eisner.decus.org>   a In article <8qb5cr$cpn@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog) writes:e > L > Which works just the same as with strlen(), confirming that the problem isM > a result of size_t and int comparisons.  But those occur all over the placer: > and will come out backwards if the int is ever negative!  I size_t is unsigned int, fsize is int.  When you compare the two the rules H for promtion to a common type apply (Compaq C Language Reference Manual, November 1999):e  3     "if either operand has type  unsigned int , thed3      other operand is converted to  unsigned int ."t  D And, of course, FFFFFFFF is greater than 0.  There is no size_t less than 0.e  G This is one of the most deeply embedded gotchas I know of in C.  AddinglH a compiler message for every such conversion would flood the compilationF of a great many C programs.  Going back to K&R's original concepts theH C language assumes the programmer knows what he's doing and does what he says.   D Adding the (int) of course forces the compiler to convert the size_tF result of strlen() to signed int and then compare the two signed ints,$ whereupon -1 is less than 0 applies.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationm= Hubble Space Telescope Payload  | Federal Sector, Civil GroupuE  Flight Software Team           | please remove ".aspm" when replyinge   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:40:50 -0400E( From: Ed Vogel <edward.vogel@compaq.com>6 Subject: Re: strlen(), comparisons, unexpected results* Message-ID: <39CA0FE1.54549E8D@compaq.com>   David Mathog wrote:e  ; > Why doesn't this code generate some type of QUESTCOMPARE?s  M     Because the part of the compiler that generates the questcompare messages M     is not smart enough to track the value of the fsize variable.  If you hadM9     replaced fsize with -1, then you would see a message.n  E                                                              Ed VogeloR                                                              Compaq C Engineering.   ------------------------------  / Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:58:49 +0200 (MET DST)o& From: Rudolf Wingert <win@fom.fgan.de>* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist6 Message-ID: <200009210655.IAA21321@sinet1.fom.fgan.de>   Hello,  F hg/jb wrotes some non gentleman like things about Andrew. I don't likeF this. My opinion is other them Andrew's, but we should fight about the0 things not against the person. Now to the facts:  5 	1. The SRAM  is not protected against electrostatic.: 	:L This is a design failure. Every cache must be design against electrostaticalH problems. The new one RAMs, do have sp[ecial protection, so that you can- take it in your hands, without destroying it.n   	2. SRAM becomes to hot.  J Also a design failure. Sun must change the airstream, or use better coolerJ to reduce the potential problem. As I wrote in one mail, Compaq did changeI all the fan's in an AlphaServer4100, because they did know about problems  with this type/vendor of fan.lJ I hope that Andrew do not become a VMS hater in case of the ungentle mails> and will be able to trink a bottle of beere with OpenVMS fans.   Regards Rudolf Wingert   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 12:33:49 +0100b  From: steven.reece@quintiles.com* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persistH Message-ID: <OF78F06BAC.59324EFF-ON80256961.003698A6@qedi.quintiles.com>  J It's probably not a politically correct question to answer Andrew, but areG there any other manufacturers that are using the same SRAM and are they-1 experiencing the same faults or anything similar?rG This _isn't_ a dig, isn't wanting to put down Sun (although that may beUH tempting) but is purely to find out if there are any other manufacturers> whose kit we should be aware of for these bit-flipping issues. Steve.  
 Andrew wrote: ; >>>We use a standard SRAM part in the ecache of the UltraIIp: CPU's this SRAM has been supplied by two different vendors# who I am not at liberty to discuss.s  ; We have found that the bits flip on the SRAM, but that theyl? don't flip by themselves, they flip because of external factors 7 of which static is one of the most obvious culprits. Wee? know that reducing the incidence of static by proper datacenteroC management reduces the incidence dramatically of the bits flipping.p  D We also know that changing the origional SRAM to a new and identicalA speced part from a different vendor also dramatically reduces the " incidence of the bits flipping.<<<   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:43:19 +0100e0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist* Message-ID: <39CA2C97.B9347227@uk.sun.com>   hg/jb wrote: >  > andrew harrison wrote:" > snipped stuff to save bandwidth: > > A > > Of course you did not call the FUDsters lying idiots I wondery: > > why, perhaps a trawl through deja would be interesting: > > were you involved in the threads ? Remember anyone who9 > > suggested that the outage was caused by Sun SW/HW hasr< > > in your terms been shown to be a lying idiot, your words* > > not mine and not words I would choose. > >u > > Andrew Harrisonl > > Enterprise IT Architectd	 > Andrew,n> > You have made me wish that Carl Lydick was back to deal with? > you properly.  Carl is not here, I am not able to emulate himo; > in the style he deserves, so I will have to do it my way.s? > Andrew - I am aghast at you, the king of FUDster spin posting.> > those words.  You persist in your approach to spin the truth= > into an orwellian morass yet you give us a prime example of @ > why some mothers should eat their young AND reason to finalize > retroactive abortion.e > v/rs	 > justboba  2 So what do you think caused the 22 outage at eBay / which was the basis of the origional attempt toc FUD Sun.  / Come on, you are happy to accuse me of spin so  . lets have what you think are the actual facts  behind eBays outage.  * Remember the alegations made on this group included in no specific order:  / Data corruption caused by unspecified Sun HW/SWb E10K hardware failurea Unspecified solaris issues  / At the time I refuted all of these claims, none . of which were true and you are now accusing me of spin.   So come on what was it ??????f   Regardsp Andrew Harrisons Enterprise IT Architects   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Sep 2000 13:38:58 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist+ Message-ID: <Pr6lRquSx+d7@eisner.decus.org>c  ] In article <39CA2C97.B9347227@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:u   > 4 > So what do you think caused the 22 outage at eBay 1 > which was the basis of the origional attempt tot
 > FUD Sun. > 1 > Come on, you are happy to accuse me of spin so e0 > lets have what you think are the actual facts  > behind eBays outage. >   9 	Who cares?  Old news.  More of interest is how how come  > 	they have bi-weekly failures of their primary server?  Before; 	you answer... remember they are quick to point out when itM> 	is an ISP issue.  And we are clever enough to know they don't= 	have a single network connection nor a single NT box nor any,? 	other single point of failure.  There is only one single pointS> 	of failure and yes they are getting a bit snappier at cutting; 	over to the backup.  Down from 42 minutes to 33 minutes onn 	ye old fire drill.1    & http://www2.ebay.com/aw/announce.shtml   User: aw@ebay.com"  Date: 09/19/00e  Time: 22:55:14 PDTc.                          *** SYSTEM STATUS ***  K The eBay site was unavailable from 22:17 PDT to 22:50 PDT due to a hardware>F failure which was corrected as quickly as possible. We appreciate your	 patience.o  !                          Regards,'                          eBayo    User: aw@ebay.com  Date: 09/19/00s  Time: 22:39:45 PDT /                          *** SYSTEM STATUS *** g    N The eBay site is currently unavailable. We are working to address the issue as quickly as possible. e    !                          Regards,s                          eBay       o?                Top Ten reasons for Sun FE to get the eBay call:M      >  10)     Know where the good stuff is hid in the Liebert units   3  9)      Made a ton of friends (a few enemies too).    ?  8)      First to 60 card punches gets family outing to Disney!    B  7)      Get to learn about field service availability at 3 a.m.!    H  6)      Total site visit pool now up to $1800 (guess total 2000 visits,          win pool!).   K  5)      Getting so fast at swapping CPU and I/O cards can now swap runningi          cards!-   I  4)      OT is now paying for Aspen condo, Eddie Bauer Explorer, private c#          school, and projection TV..   N  3)      Be ideally-positioned to get in the FINAL bid on that kidney         6          transplant (once you get the server back up).   N  2)      Have a bully pulpit from which to orate about UltraSPARC III chips,            if they ever ship.o   H          And the number one reason to be the lucky Sun FE on-call . . .    L  1)      Get a ground-floor opportunity to score brownie points with Scott  L          McNealy by convincing eBay IT Management that the problem lies not 0          with Sun hardware, but with Windows NT.     				Roba   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:14:52 +0100 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist* Message-ID: <39CA420C.A48350D8@uk.sun.com>   Jordan Henderson wrote:i > + > In article <39C8CFF9.56AA5CC@uk.sun.com>, 5 >   andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:e > > Jordan Henderson wrote:u > > >n  A > > Nor do I think Compaq would for example be likely to dish thesA > > dirt on a particular supplier where the supplier did not wanti  > > the information made public. > >i > B > How very hypothetical of you.  Somehow, Sun partners and vendorsA > must be protected from Sun dishing dirt, while in the situationr> > with Intel that you find that comparable, Intel stood up and; > publicly worked with their customers to fix the problems.y >    Rubbish 6 Intel initially denied there was an issue and tried to9 rubbish the claims about FP errors. It was only when they-6 were forced to concede in public that the FP issue did6 exist that they started the processor recall process.   8 There is no parallel to the Sun SRAM problem, we are not: denying its an issue but we are also not the manufacturer 9 of the part in question and are therefore in a completelyl different position to Intel.  @ > It's awfully convenient for Sun that they have these suppliersC > that must be protected.  Sun can get away with blaming everything@ > on the mystery supplier. >   5 So you are not familiar with the idea that a contract 9 between a component supplier and a computer manufacturer s9 may preclude either vendor making public statements aboutn7 the reliability etc of the components or the resulting . product.  6 I also find it hugely ammusing that you are defending 9 Compaq and trying the FUD Sun with this kind of argument.m  7 What a short memory you have, remember how difficult it ; was for the DOJ to get Compaq to the stand to testify abouts9 practices that Compaqs legal council must have known wereh! likely to be found to be illegal.r  : > > You seem like Rob to be intent in trying to prove that; > > there is some sort of wicked Sun conspiracy. IronicallyI6 > > the first conspiracy theory of this type, the eBay8 > > one proved in fact to be a situation where Sun stood6 > > much more to gain by not having an NDA because the8 > > public airing of the actual causes of eBays problems/ > > would have shown that Sun was not to blame.f > ; > Oh?  You can _claim_ this, but in fact there has not beeni: > "a public airing of the actual causes of eBays problems" > that would vindicate Sun.  > = Oh yes there has, eBay publically exhonerated Sun saying thatr? there had not been a problem with Sun hardware or software. Thec< cause was in fact 3rd party product which crashed because it= had not been patched, the patch had been available for nearly 7 a year at the time of the crash. Sun did not supply then2 product in question to eBay nor did we support it.  5 This was aired at the time and subsequently in depth.*   > > < > > You dare to call me an idiot but again going back to theA > > eBay 22 hour outage, all the conspiracy theories, speculationA> > > about data corruption, hardware failures and all the other7 > > FUD turned out to be total and utter rubbish either-> > > knowingly (or lets hope) unknowingly being fed to this and? > > other groups in a vain attempt damage Sun. The facts at thes= > > time and the facts now available show that I was entirely1? > > accurate about the fact that the eBay outage was not causeds= > > by a failure in any Sun supplied or supported software ore
 > > hardware.t > = > "The facts at the time and the facts now available show..."g > : > Hmmm... Let's tackle "The facts at the time".  The first9 > thing we heard from eBay was that they very much blamedn > Sun for recurring outages: > ? >   http://www.wirednews.com/news/business/0,1367,20190,00.html   5 Says nothing about a Sun Hardware or software failured > 5 >   http://www.forbes.com/forbes/99/0726/6402238a.htmd > : Turns out to have been totally incorrect. The information : supposedly coming from eBay blaming Solaris actually came 8 from an employee of one of Sun's competitors posting the7 alegation to one of eBay's message boards. Incedentally-9 the vendor in question got a very high level slap in the M face from eBay.o  E >   http://www.osopinion.com/Opinions/BillHennessy/BillHennessy3.htmlg > A A very balanced (irony) article that also got it completely wrong   = > Apparently, someone behind the scenes has something to say:w > 8 >   http://www.illuminata.com/analystnb/andeepthroat.htm > 5 Looks remarkably like the posting that was sent by an)& employee of one of Sun's competitors.   8 > Then, there was a flurry of conflicting and convoluted< > explanations from Sun.  Finally, everything went quiet (do< > we here the pens scribbling signatures on NDAs in the hope# > that Sun will fix the problems?).  > : > Finally, we hear that Sun has "sold" many new servers to > eBay:gJ >  http://www.canada.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-1882022.html?tag=st.ne.1003- > 203-1692555..nii > < > But, what's this?  The details of the deal go undisclosed. > ! > Sounds like a big payoff to me.t > = > So, Andrew, where's your facts now that prove that the eBay < > failures had nothing to do with Sun HW/SW?  Oh, I remember> > now, the last time this was discussed here, you had to pointA > to those suppliers and customers that needed to be "protected".A > > So what have you come up with, just half facts and unsupported: allegations and even a good old conspiracy theory to spice< it all up. Even you must be capable of enough self analysis = to realise that this is pure unmitigated FUD with no factual 7 basis.  = The eBay 22 hour outage was caused by a 3rd party SW product  > crashing because of a bug for which a patch had been availableB for a number of months. Both Sun and the SW vendor had recommended? that the patch was applied some time before the outage occured.F  ; It was not caused by Sun hardware or software and this was t> confirmed in a public statment made by eBay after the initial 7 FUD had stopped flying and the real facts became clear.T  c  : > Face it, Sun and Veritas were crawling all over the eBay< > systems.  They should have spotted any problems and warned= > eBay of bad practices, if there were any.  Why didn't they?o? > Well, the best explanation was that Sun didn't see it coming.  > 8 Good lord how two faced can you get, you almost come out9 with the actual cause of the outage but then try to twista it round to being Sun's fault.  : Sun did tell eBay to apply the patch. If you want to blame: us for anything you can blame us for not being persistent 6 enough, we did not keep going back and telling them to8 make time and patch the 3rd party product. Sun made the 7 mistake of thinking that eBay was like any other large -: technology led organisation, we did not realise that eBays6 resources had not kept up with the growth in their IT  infrastructure.t  9 I very much doubt than any of our competitors would have r8 done any better. In fact they did not as eTrade (Compaq) and Schwab (IBM) illustrate.  8 Of course the huge irony of your attempts to FUD Sun and7 create some kind of conspiracy theory out of nothing is : that Compaq have their own murky eBay-like failure lurking
 in the wings.C  > Remember eTrade, what happened there, was it a Compaq engineer@ doing the wrong thing and a bug in the OpenVMS cluster software,> who knows, neither Compaq or eTrade have been very forthcoming6 about what really caused eTrade to have their outages.    ? > I'm waiting for those people to be shown to be liars.  Sorry, : > I can't take your word for it, you're just not credible.7 > Everytime I do catch you in a clear lie, anyone who'sK? > interested please trawl through deja, you change the subject.w > ; So when they said that it was Sun hardware or software that ; caused the outage when in fact it was a bug in an unpatchedt8 3rd party product, they were not lying or being idiots.   9 If so then I would hate to see what you actually consider- a lie to be.   Regards- Andrew Harrison- Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:14:14 +0000o$ From: Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk$ Subject: SYSTEM-F-FORCEDEXIT problem/ Message-ID: <00256961.00487578.00@quegw01.btyp>-   cc:- bcc:= Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plazaa   SYSTEM-F-FORCEDEXIT problemR     All,  O We have our systems backup up with Legato (I know, I know...) or at least we'rea supposed to.  L The Legato processes are being killed with FORCEDEXIT, which as far as I canP see, is related to the owner process - in this case SYSTEM - violating the loginP hour restrictions. SYSTEM, to the best of my knowledge, and as far as I can see, has no such restrictions.u  N Does anyone have anything to offer to help me track this down? Nothing in DSN.  N I doubt whether any of this information is useful, but all systems are Alpha'sL (2100s, 4100s, 8400s) running VMS from 6.2-1H3 to 7.1-2 and Legato build 20.   TIA0   Steve Spires VMS System Manager BT/Yellow Pages      [Information] -- PostMaster:D This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) and may beL confidential. If you are not the named addressee, or if the message has beenP addressed to you in error, you must not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute or use this transmission.  L Delivery of this message to any person other than the named addressee is notH intended in any way to waive confidentiality.  If you have received thisF transmission in error please contact the sender or delete the message.  
 Thank you.   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Sep 2000 13:58:31 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)( Subject: Re: SYSTEM-F-FORCEDEXIT problem6 Message-ID: <8qd467$i6d$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  V In article <00256961.00487578.00@quegw01.btyp>, Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk writes:E :...processes are being killed with FORCEDEXIT, which as far as I cana( :see, is related to the owner process...@ :Does anyone have anything to offer to help me track this down?   M   Most anything can of course leave the FORCEDEXIT status code value sitting bJ   in R0, but you can certainly audit the various process-related calls to K   see if this is something involving the $forcex or similar calls.  Enable  L   the appropriate security auditing (or alarms), and check the auditing (or K   alarms) and accounting logs, and check the login times.  (The authorized eM   CPU time limits usually return a EXCPUTIM error after exceeding the limits nD   and the allotted EXTRACPU, so that's probably not the cause here.)  J   For grins, also check for any disk errors, any system errors, and check J   the process quotas -- one very old tool was known to return a FORCEDEXITI   error as a catch-all; the error that the tool chose to use whenever it e>   encountered something that it could not correctly deal with.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 02:37:58 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>! Subject: Re: Telnet configurationl- Message-ID: <39C9ACC6.EA7105DB@tsoft-inc.com>i   Robert Deininger wrote:t >  > But this is under control of the system manager, not the user.  It typically happens as a by-product of sylogin.com.  Maybe you let your users fiddle with sylogin.com, but I don't. :-)  L Ok, I'm ready to learn something I don't currently know.  This is the secondN reference to SYLOGIN that I've seen in this thread.  SYLOGIN is something thatP happens at the end of logging in.  SYS$ANNOUNCE happens before logging in.  It's9 normally set at system start-up.  What am I missing here?a   Dave   -- u4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:48:03 GMT - From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> ! Subject: Re: Telnet configurationi( Message-ID: <39CA1190.3921C708@ohio.edu>   I think the original confusion arose from the fact that in order to get a file to be copied to the user's terminal, you define the SYS$ANNOUNCE or SYS$WELCOME logical name with the first character of the translation to be "@", which in DCL denotes execution of a command procedure.  I seem to recall that such a dual use of "@" also happens a few other places.b                           RDP      David A Froble wrote:    > Robert Deininger wrote:  > >h > > But this is under control of the system manager, not the user.  It typically happens as a by-product of sylogin.com.  Maybe you let your users fiddle with sylogin.com, but I don't. :-) >nN > Ok, I'm ready to learn something I don't currently know.  This is the secondP > reference to SYLOGIN that I've seen in this thread.  SYLOGIN is something thatR > happens at the end of logging in.  SYS$ANNOUNCE happens before logging in.  It's; > normally set at system start-up.  What am I missing here?a >p > Dave >r > --6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04506 > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596@ > DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com8 > T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:05:54 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)! Subject: Re: Telnet configurationeL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2109001105540001@user-2iveb66.dialup.mindspring.com>  Y In article <39C9ACC6.EA7105DB@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:i   > Robert Deininger wrote:  > >  > > But this is under control of the system manager, not the user.  It typically happens as a by-product of sylogin.com.  Maybe you let your users fiddle with sylogin.com, but I don't. :-) > N > Ok, I'm ready to learn something I don't currently know.  This is the secondP > reference to SYLOGIN that I've seen in this thread.  SYLOGIN is something thatR > happens at the end of logging in.  SYS$ANNOUNCE happens before logging in.  It's; > normally set at system start-up.  What am I missing here?k  ) You are missing lack-of-sleep.  I wasn't!o  ; You are right.  SYS$ANNOUNCE happens early, before SYLOGIN.   F What I was trying to say is that this fellow typically gets defined inK SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM, by the system manager.  Then its effect happens at loginuK time.  Since the system manager does it, I don't think its a security hole.   [ Sylogin, systartup, they both start with sy... :-)  Carl's ghost isn't happy with me today.p   -- a Robert Deininger rdeininger@mindspring.com    ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:12:29 +0100 0 From: Neway Manalebih <Neway.Manalebih@secco.de>' Subject: Using shared memory on OpenVMSf( Message-ID: <39CA174D.359B9979@secco.de>   Hi!r  H Does anyone have some experience in programming shared memory access and creation on OpenVMS using C?  ) Could anyone please send me some samples?    Thanks Mirkos   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:25:57 +0000-- From: ezzaoudi med <m.ezzaoudi@digitem.co.ma>, Subject: Re: VAX VMS TO ALPHAc- Message-ID: <39C9D425.3B5B2EF2@digitem.co.ma>   
 Thanks a lot.o   Syltrem a =E9crit :F  D > You have to recompile your Cobol programs, create new executables.: > You can move your sysuaf.dat, rightslist.dat files over. >oF > I guess you can do the same with pathworks files, but I never did i= t. We F > used to have pathworks running on 2 nodes (one VAX, one Alpha) of t= he sametF > VMScluster and I believe they shared the config files for I don't r= ememberyF > having to enter everything twice. So if you know what files are inc= volved,aF > install Pathworks on the alpha box and move you VAX files over (do = a backup
 > first!). > 	 > Syltrem5 >0< > "ezzaoudi med" <m.ezzaoudi@digitem.co.ma> wrote in message) > news:39C8D030.AFC16C68@digitem.co.ma...g > > HiF > > I have a MV3100-80 with VMS 7.1 , Cobol 5.1-10 and Pathworks Adva= nced > > Server.C% > > I want to migrate to  Alpha DS20.d > >oC > > 1- My Executable cobol programs can they run without problems ? D > > 2- Have I to recompil my sources programs for generating the new > >     executables programs ?" > > 3- Pathworks Advanced Server :F > >     Can I download my users account base ( and rights) from the v= ax to  > > the Alpha ?v > >s	 > > Yours  > >c > >r   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 07:54:18 -0400a% From: "Islandco" <sales@islandco.com>l Subject: Re: VMS and 164LX/ Message-ID: <ssjsuoav0ls142@corp.supernews.com>    FWIW    G A Generic 21164 license part number is QL-MT1AE-6X  OVMS Base ASTATIONS    No of Units: 12e   List price is $1200e  I You can probably get one through your local AUTHORISED reseller for abouta
 $1000-1100   David    -- Island Computers US Corporation  2700 Gregory Streett	 Suite 150b Savannah GA 31404t Tel: 912 447 6622f Fax: 912 201 0096o sales@islandco.com www.islandco.com  C This message and any files transmitted with it are confidential andtJ may be privileged and/or subject to the provisions of privacy legislation.H They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whomE they are addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intendedc
 recipient,G please notify Island Computers US Corp immediately and then delete thish message.I You are notified that reliance on, disclosure of, distribution or copyingg of this message is prohibited.    / Daniel Allen <dallen@nist.gov> wrote in message 4 news:NEBBJENNFKMDMFJKMLFCMEBBCAAA.dallen@nist.gov... >dL > :   Why?  I've run various "unsupported" VMS configurations over the yearsL > :   with very good success.  If you can save your company significant $$$$H > :   and the system runs with sufficient reliability (most of mine have been+ > :   totally reliable) what's the problem?. >oH >   Out of curiousity, where does a company acquire the (commercial-use,G >   non-hobbyist) software license(s) necessary for these (unsupported)y >   platforms? >bK >     Well I just ordered it ala carte.  Looked up the part number, gave itl toH >     my vendor, who purchased it from Compaq and shipped the kit to me. > I >   I can understand how a license can be acquired for a supported systempH >   platform running in unsupported configurations -- I have more than a > H >     That's actually the scenario I was refering to above - unsupported  >     devices or configurations. >cI >   little experience with screwy hardware widgets and odd-ball parametercG >   settings and wierd software -- but I do not know how to acquire thedB >   necessary commercial software product license(s) for use on an >   unsupported platform.i >aL >   There are folks in various corporate and governmental organizations thatJ >   and and do deal with these sorts of licensing issues, and clearly withL >   far more authority and knowledge of the subject than I have.  This wholeE >   platform licensing topic certainly looks to be worth some furtheroK >   research -- I'll check with the local product management and folks thattL >   deal with the various sorts of software licensing issues that can arise. >t, >  --------------------------- pure personal% > opinion --------------------------- 1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineeringt hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >  >e >c >a >h >i   ------------------------------   Date: 21 Sep 2000 14:05:24 GMT! From: briannfo@aol.com (BrianNFO)t Subject: VMS Memory Tuning: Message-ID: <20000921100524.26592.00000003@ng-ch1.aol.com>  L Wanted to get some thoughts on a poorly performing VAX 7610.  The system hasK 128 MB memory (maybe that's a big part of the problem right there) and it's.L hard faulting way too much.  I think this is driving up Interrupt and Kernel modes.  = If I monitor the type of page faults, hard faulting is almostcK constant...clearly a bad thing.  Free list is around 50,000 pages...but oneoL thing I notice is that about 50-75% of the faults are Demand Zero and GlobalF Valid faults.  I'm trying to recall...are Demand Zero because of image activations?  L Individual user processes do not seem to be faulting excessively, so I think# working sets are sized at least ok.y   Thoughts?  Thanks in advance...e   Brians   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Sep 2000 11:51:06 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young) Subject: Re: VMS Memory Tuning+ Message-ID: <4ZfbHFHHBob7@eisner.decus.org>l  ^ In article <20000921100524.26592.00000003@ng-ch1.aol.com>, briannfo@aol.com (BrianNFO) writes:N > Wanted to get some thoughts on a poorly performing VAX 7610.  The system hasM > 128 MB memory (maybe that's a big part of the problem right there) and it's N > hard faulting way too much.  I think this is driving up Interrupt and Kernel > modes. > ? > If I monitor the type of page faults, hard faulting is almostgM > constant...clearly a bad thing.  Free list is around 50,000 pages...but one'N > thing I notice is that about 50-75% of the faults are Demand Zero and GlobalH > Valid faults.  I'm trying to recall...are Demand Zero because of image > activations? > N > Individual user processes do not seem to be faulting excessively, so I think% > working sets are sized at least ok.u > ! > Thoughts?  Thanks in advance...  >   ? 	Yes... using -- Destroyer of the Environment -- Google revealse< 	image activitions are demand zero related , also hard fault= 	recommendations are below that.  Running a common image?  Ifa@ 	so, is it INSTALLed?  Running a bunch of DCL scripts?  What you	 	running?   ? http://www.openvms.compaq.com/doc/72final/6491/6491pro_006.htmld   				Robm 			d   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:44:33 GMTw" From: greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.ukB Subject: Re: WAY OT: Ballistic (was Re: Halon dump - a data point)2 Message-ID: <39cef48e.976065@news.cableinet.co.uk>  C Actually it could be a Roman seige machine and be a small catapult,a2 now I think about it. Nobody cares by now do they?  H ------------------------------------------------------------------------  H if love is a drug, then, ideally, it's a healing, healthful drug... it's@ kind of like prozac is supposed to work (without the sexual side5 effects and long-term damage to the brain and psyche)w   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:31:58 -0700h7 From: "Arthur E. Ragosta" <ragosta@merlin.arc.nasa.gov>fB Subject: Re: WAY OT: Ballistic (was Re: Halon dump - a data point)3 Message-ID: <39CA29EE.DBF951DA@merlin.arc.nasa.gov>c  # greenaum@BOLLOCKSyahoo.co.uk wrote:h  E > Actually it could be a Roman seige machine and be a small catapult,o4 > now I think about it. Nobody cares by now do they? >g  $ Or my personal favorite... pumpkins:  % http://www.atbeach.com/punkinchunkin/t   ------------------------------  # Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:58:35 GMT)% From: A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig)u( Subject: Re: [JAVA] Adobe Acrobat Viewer2 Message-ID: <39c9cbeb.1276679978@news.newsguy.com>  1 On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:41:23 -0500, Chris Scheers-" <chris@applied-synergy.com> wrote:   >Alan Greig wrote:  F >> In fact if I actually tried to go through our authorization processE >> for that level of expenditure I'd be told bluntly to stop being sod  >> stupid and just place the PO. >h >r, >So when will we be seeing that PO?  <grin>   E Suppose I was asking for that! Don't really have a great need to viewaF PDF on VMS any more and XPDF works fine 98% of the time. But I suppose? I might just order a copy for those occasions where it might be B needed. Would be nice to use it with a stable version of Mozilla 5 (Netscape 6) when available.  H >-----------------------------------------------------------------------% >Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.n >dD >Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com  >  Fax: 817-237-3074   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Sep 2000 08:28:46 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)o( Subject: Re: [JAVA] Adobe Acrobat Viewer+ Message-ID: <5fl$kiE$kkr7@eisner.decus.org>u   In article <BAEF4F1670F6CEBC.5AD0BBAE3D349C01.E2F571C033C70509@lp.airnews.net>, Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> writes:  > Alan Greig wrote:  >> pE >> On 19 Sep 2000 20:06 CST, carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote:  >> e- >> >A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig) writes..., >> hG >> >}Although 1 and 2 seem solid reasons I did notice that the cheapestT, >> >}sing;le license was only 150 dollars... >> >}t >> >}--t >> >}Alan Greig  >> >6 >> >If that is so cheap, why don't you buy it for him? >> >> >> >$150 > $0. Therefore, if you have $0 you can not pay $150. >>  H >> I would have thought it obvious that I was making the point that $150A >> is such a small amount that it would escape any general ban oneH >> software expenditure in most organisations There can be exceptions of >> course... >> nF >> In fact if I actually tried to go through our authorization processE >> for that level of expenditure I'd be told bluntly to stop being so   >> stupid and just place the PO. >  > - > So when will we be seeing that PO?  <grin> d  8 In my case, when the CD-ROM version (V1.1) is available.6 That is presuming there are not a plethora of "this is9 horribly broken" messages on comp.os.vms in the meantime,e6 but since there have not been _any_ so far, that seems	 unlikely.d  9 Those of us who rely on CD-ROMs always depend on the more-# daring folks to shake out the bugs.T   ------------------------------    Date: 21 Sep 2000 15:08:47 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER)( Subject: Re: [JAVA] Adobe Acrobat Viewer( Message-ID: <39ca085f@news.kapsch.co.at>  Z In article <39C84C65.CD286761@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes: >Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote: P >> 3.) I don't get ANY money for any of my VMS systems for a couple of years now9 >>         So, commercial ware is out of every scope hereh >O; >So, shut them down.  You'll get one of 2 possible results.r >nQ >The powers that be will not see any problems, and will dump the VMS systems, andg >you.o >xL >The powers that be will have their need for the VMS systems shoved up theirH >noses, or other appropriate parts of the anatomy, and re-consider their >tight-wad ways. >uP >Oh, Ok, there is another possibility.  They just might send Bruno in to break a >few of your fingers.o >dF >1 out of 3 in your favor.  Not the best odds.  How lucky do you feel?   LOLo  F But, if I shutdown the VMS systems, nothing will happen (Maybe I get aG bonus). For the last 5 years everyone tries to remove every applicationlD from VMS and replace it to run on "house standards platforms". WhichB means, we pay Megabucks for rewriting an (selfwritten) applicationG instead of fixing (eg. Y2K) bugs (would have been umpteen bucks) in theeH VMS application. So, only few applications are left now. Mainly my own.   I And I wouldn't get fired, because my main work is now network management.iM All what changes, would be my private desktop (MegaShit Personal Crap insteadDJ of VMS) and the network servers (NT and Linux instead of VMS). And becauseK Linux is still not allowed in the "house standards" and NT does not includeeG NTP and so on servers, I would be in great trouble. I would have to paysI thousand of extra dollars to get features I already had with existing VMSr4 systems. But this is very cost effective, isn't it ?  E No. We have VMS systems 5-8 years old. They should have been replacedeI after 3 years (to keep cost effective), so they whould had to be replacedyK all more than once !! This wasn't done because "VMS is dead" and "VMS is nobI longer a "house standards platforms" and so we paid the last 5 years many F many bucks to keep old systems (eg. a VAX6610) under maint, where withF the same money we could have replaced all our VMS systems with smallerF and faster and colder Alphas with more GByte and 3 year warranty each.D This _is_ stupid, but it happened and I was unsuccessful in fightingD against it. And all this is caused by DEC's inability to market and 3 sell VMS and now COMPAQ's inability to revert this.t  H A simple 2x DS10L SCSI cluster would be sufficient now, but we still payJ more maint for the next months than to buy such systems ("because we don't> need them and we switch off the VMS servers alltogether soon")  E If I had had the option to take over the main contract from DEQ to melH personally in the past (and I bought the AlphaServers from my own money)G I'd be a millionaire (Schilling not Dollar) now.But then, I would have F become a VMS fan based on this earned money and not based on VMS facts  and features and experiences ;-)  0 So don't expect that your suggestions help here.J Only such a 2xDS10L SCSI cluster donated would help VMS keeping alive hereC (though I still dream of ORACLE on VMS instead of on the SP2 here).n   RIP (hi David) -- e< Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888e< <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.529 ************************==============================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:05:54 -0400 2 From: rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger)! Subject: Re: Telnet configurationeL Message-ID: <rdeininger-2109001105540001lMqע, t5qm
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