1 INFO-VAX	Sat, 23 Sep 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 532       Contents: 'rsync' for OpenVMS?3 Re: Advertising for OpenVMS from Executive Software ( Re: AHA! (Re: Why are these files open?) Re: Basic freeware CD problems* Re: BUT... (Re: Why are these files open?)* Re: BUT... (Re: Why are these files open?)* Re: BUT... (Re: Why are these files open?)& Re: Changing Alpha 2100 SCSI backplane, Re: Deleting 250,000+ files from a directory, Re: Deleting 250,000+ files from a directory, Re: Deleting 250,000+ files from a directory duh... max filename lenth???  Re: duh... max filename lenth???  RE: duh... max filename lenth???  Re: duh... max filename lenth??? Re: Duplex Printing  Re: Duplex Printing - Re: ERROR TYPE - EXTENDED SENSE DATA RECEIVED / Re: FILESERV@WKU: Updated VNCviewer for OpenVMS & Re: Freeware for extracting Mime files& Re: Freeware for extracting Mime files' Re: HELP ! VMS License Units Question -  Re: HSZ50 in Hobbyist Cluster  Re: Incremental backup blues7 Interesting result from Copy/Log with version limit set  Re: Is VMS worth learning....? Re: Is VMS worth learning....? Kind of OT, but enjoyable  Re: Kind of OT, but enjoyable 0 Looking for Charles Addams "Source code" cartoon Open File, or What?  Re: Open File, or What?  Re: Open File, or What?  Re: Open File, or What? # Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships # Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships # Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships " Re: OT: More MSFT on US Navy ships/ Re: Please help a poorly Microvax 3100 - update . Re: Porting Support (was Re: Compaq VMS promo) Re: Press Release  Re: Press Release  Re: Press Release  Re: Press Release  Re: Press Release  Re: Press Release  Re: Press Release 
 Press Release  Re: Press Release  Re: Press Release $ RE: Problem with COMPAQ 9.1GB drives$ Re: Problem with COMPAQ 9.1GB drives$ Re: Problem with COMPAQ 9.1GB drives$ Re: Problem with COMPAQ 9.1GB drives$ Re: Problem with COMPAQ 9.1GB drives/ Re[2]: Deleting 250,000+ files from a directory  Re: Suggested VMS new feature! Re: Suggested VMS new feature! Re: Suggested VMS new feature! Re: Suggested VMS new feature! Re: Suggested VMS new feature! Re: Suggested VMS new feature! Re: Suggested VMS new feature! Re: Suggested VMS new feature!! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist  Re: SYSTEM-F-EXBUFOBJLM  Re: Telnet configuration Re: Telnet configurationH Top "F" Reasons OpenVMS isn't going to Die  (WAS:Re: [VMS] VAX is dying)L Re: Top "F" Reasons OpenVMS isn't going to Die  (WAS:Re: [VMS] VAX is dying)L Re: Top "F" Reasons OpenVMS isn't going to Die  (WAS:Re: [VMS] VAX is dying)K Re: Top "F" Reasons OpenVMS isn't going to Die  (WAS:Re: [VMS] VAX isdying) K Re: Top "F" Reasons OpenVMS isn't going to Die  (WAS:Re: [VMS] VAX isdying)  VMSNET.* hierarchy ? Re: VMSNET.* hierarchy ?  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:06:58 GMT 2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> Subject: 'rsync' for OpenVMS? 6 Message-ID: <mCRy5.673$F93.245247@typhoon.aracnet.com>  L I'm wondering if anyone has a port of 'rsync' for OpenVMS?  Basically it's a" *very* cool replacement for 'rcp'.  K I believe I can achieve the same functionality by exporting the disk I want J to dump data to via NFS and then mounting that on the UNIX box that I wantK to rsync the data from and just rsync it to the NFS mount on the UNIX box.  < Obviously this isn't as desirable as a native rsync command.   				Zane   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:11:19 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>< Subject: Re: Advertising for OpenVMS from Executive Software- Message-ID: <39CBAED7.C78115DA@tsoft-inc.com>    Robert Deininger wrote:  > h > In article <39CAD169.F92D98F6@earthlink.net>, "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> wrote: > J > > Yes - it's a pity that when it finally appears, it comes from personae > > non gratae.  > F > Some folks in this newsgroup would bitch if they were hung (hanged?)4 > with a brand-new rope.  There's just no gratitude.  N Well, I for one would bitch regardless of what type of rope was proposed.  :-)   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:15:05 -0500 / From: Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> 1 Subject: Re: AHA! (Re: Why are these files open?) O Message-ID: <E6D2986CBD6D94B1.84070D61145F5BE7.928147C55A8361EE@lp.airnews.net>    bill robertson wrote:  > / > Verrry interesting, and a little embarassing:  > E > $ SAY F$FILE( "DKA200:[RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SIGNON.EXE;1", "KNOWN" ) $ > %SYSTEM-W-NOSUCHFILE, no such file- >  \DKA200:[RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SIGNON.EXE;1\  >  > Duhhh.  Lessee...  > . > $ dir DKA200:[RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SIGNON.EXE > # > Directory DKA200:[RLS_MTS_45.EXE]  >  > MENU_SIGNON.EXE;17 >  > Total of 1 file. > [ > Somehow I never thought to look at this.  How the INSTALL entries got there, and why they Z > weren't deleted, I can't say.  (In my somewhat lame defense, I must say that I inherited  > this system a few months ago.)    D It gets kind of interesting if you delete a file that is installed. D When this happens, the file is marked for delete, but isn't actually= deleted.  It is removed from the directory structure, though.   H It appears that version ;1 of the file was installed, and then deleted. C The SHOW DEVICE/FILE listing still shows the file because it hasn't 6 really been deleted and is still held open by INSTALL.  F INSTALL DELETE is documented as not being able to remove the entry forF an installed file that has been deleted.  (It actually does remove theH entry on my system, even if it has been deleted, so this behavior may be VMS version dependent.)   A Try using INSTALL REMOVE to get rid of the reference to the file.   
 Good luck!  G ----------------------------------------------------------------------- $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  C Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com     Fax: 817-237-3074    ------------------------------   Date: 23 Sep 2000 01:23:38 GMT/ From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net> ' Subject: Re: Basic freeware CD problems * Message-ID: <8qh0mq$9so$1@news1.Radix.Net>  3 Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote:   J >   Freeware submissions for the next CD-ROM set are welcome.  Please see:  I I don't see the deadline (as usual I would like to submit some stuff, but . don't have a VAX handy to test-build/package).  C >     http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvms/freeware/cd_guide.html     P >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------N >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com     --  = Thomas E. Dickey <dickey@radix.net> <dickey@herndon4.his.com>  http://dickey.his.com  ftp://dickey.his.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 11:40:01 -0700 & From: bill robertson <wcr@pacbell.net>3 Subject: Re: BUT... (Re: Why are these files open?) + Message-ID: <39CBA780.A517E3EB@pacbell.net>   . So, how do I get rid of those INSTALL entries?   I tried INSTALL DELETE:   4 $ install del dka200:[RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SIGNON.EXEU %INSTALL-W-FAIL, failed to REMOVE entry for DISK$DEV1:<RLS_MTS_45.EXE>MENU_SIGNON.EXE / -INSTALL-E-NOKFEFND, Known File Entry not found   * Well, let's replace it and then delete it:   $ copy menu_signon.exe *.*;1] %COPY-W-HIGHVER, higher version of           DKA200:[RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SIGNON.EXE;1 already  exists7 $ install repl dka200:[RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SIGNON.EXE;1 C %INSTALL-W-NOPREV, no previous entry exists - new entry created for ( DKA200:[RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SIGNON.EXE;14 $ install del dka200:[RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SIGNON.EXE   But:   $ sho dev/fil dka200@ Files accessed on device SFSC$DKA200: on 22-SEP-2000 11:29:48.54  # Process name      PID     File name .                 00000000  [000000]INDEXF.SYS;1;                 00000000  [RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SIGNON.EXE;1 ;                 00000000  [RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SELECT.EXE;1  ...etc.   B Apparently, INSTALL has a list that pegs to the original File IDs. Can I clean this out via DCL?    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:51:07 -0500 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> 3 Subject: Re: BUT... (Re: Why are these files open?) - Message-ID: <39CC1A9B.2E076907@earthlink.net>    bill robertson wrote:  > 0 > So, how do I get rid of those INSTALL entries? >  > I tried INSTALL DELETE:  > 6 > $ install del dka200:[RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SIGNON.EXEW > %INSTALL-W-FAIL, failed to REMOVE entry for DISK$DEV1:<RLS_MTS_45.EXE>MENU_SIGNON.EXE 1 > -INSTALL-E-NOKFEFND, Known File Entry not found  > , > Well, let's replace it and then delete it: >  > $ copy menu_signon.exe *.*;1_ > %COPY-W-HIGHVER, higher version of           DKA200:[RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SIGNON.EXE;1 already  > exists9 > $ install repl dka200:[RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SIGNON.EXE;1 E > %INSTALL-W-NOPREV, no previous entry exists - new entry created for * > DKA200:[RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SIGNON.EXE;16 > $ install del dka200:[RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SIGNON.EXE >  > But: >  > $ sho dev/fil dka200B > Files accessed on device SFSC$DKA200: on 22-SEP-2000 11:29:48.54 > % > Process name      PID     File name 0 >                 00000000  [000000]INDEXF.SYS;1= >                 00000000  [RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SIGNON.EXE;1 = >                 00000000  [RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SELECT.EXE;1 	 > ...etc.  > D > Apparently, INSTALL has a list that pegs to the original File IDs. > Can I clean this out via DCL?   E That I know of, the only way to clear these out is gonna be a reboot.    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:52:48 -0500 ) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> 3 Subject: Re: BUT... (Re: Why are these files open?) / Message-ID: <ssoa5vinq4iv79@corp.supernews.com>   3 "bill robertson" <wcr@pacbell.net> wrote in message % news:39CBA780.A517E3EB@pacbell.net... 0 > So, how do I get rid of those INSTALL entries? >  > I tried INSTALL DELETE:  > 6 > $ install del dka200:[RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SIGNON.EXE- > %INSTALL-W-FAIL, failed to REMOVE entry for ) DISK$DEV1:<RLS_MTS_45.EXE>MENU_SIGNON.EXE 1 > -INSTALL-E-NOKFEFND, Known File Entry not found   I Use the INSTALL utility to list out the files.  Note the exact syntax for C the entry for MENU_SIGNON.EXE including the angle brackets that are  surrounding the directory.  ; $install remove disk$dev1:<RLS_MTS_45.EXE>menu_signon.exe;1   K The device, the directory in the same angle brackets as the install utility = reports, and the exact version number seem to be significant.   H I am not sure if the version number is required, it has been a few yearsK since I have had to fix something like this.  But you must match the device I name and the angle brackets reported by install, or install will not find  the file to remove it.  7 [Note I have not tried this with OpenVMS 7.x or higher]    -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Sep 2000 19:44:01 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)/ Subject: Re: Changing Alpha 2100 SCSI backplane , Message-ID: <8qgcq1$sfv@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  s In article <e3yy5.12262$nk3.579113@newsread03.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Jack Peacock" <peacock@simconv.com> writes: G >I have an early Alpha 2100 with one internal storage shelf.  Currently H >the shelf is wired to the motherboard SCSI controller as one backplane,F >set up for 5.25" drive spacing (as originally shipped with RZ74s fromF >factory).  I know it is possible to reconfigure the SCSI backplane toG >operate as two separate 4-drive backplanes.  I would like to change it H >to this configuration and switch over to the Mylex RAID controller, oneC >channel to each of the 4-unit sections, and the third RAID channel I >external, as it is now.  Unfortunately I haven't been able to obtain the ; >documents for this machine yet from the original customer.   I You want "StorageWorks Solutions Shelf and SBB User's Guide" order number H EK-BA350-UG.D01.  Mine is dated May 1994.  Good luck getting a copy from Compaq.   C Section 5.4 describes how to set up a single SCSI bus, Section 5.5  = describes how to split it into two.  The bottom line is this:   O 1. turn it off, unplug it from the wall, unplug the power cable from the shelf. Q 2. look at the back of the bus, you'll see two little boards,  One is a BA35X-MC  I    jumper, the other a BA35X-MB terminator.  Swap them.  When you're done G    the terminator will be behind slot 5, and the jumper behind slot 1.  K 3. There are two connectors JA1 and JB1 on the shelf, you should be plugged G    into JA1 now.  After step 2 JA1 will be connected to slots 0,2,4 and /   JB1 will be connected to slots 1,3,5, and 6.      * So the split bus configuration looks like:   Slot  6            +-  Slot  5            + \4 plug in back       |  + -- +    BA35X-MB  terminator Slot  4            +       | Slot  3            |       + Slot  2            +       | Slot  1            |       +_ plug in back       |       |     BA35X-MC jumper (in this position it doesn't connect anything)  Slot  0            +       | Jacks             JA1     JB1     $ and the single bus configuration is:   Slot  6            +-  Slot  5            + \/ plug in back       |  + -- +    BA35X-MC Jumper  Slot  4            *       | Slot  3            |       + Slot  2            +       | Slot  1            |       +4 plug in back       |       X     BA35X-MB terminator Slot  0            +         Jacks             JA1     JB1      > (The terminator is >now at the junction   >  Is there ; >some information on how to do this anywhere on a website.    J Not that I could find, but given the mess that site is, that hardly means  it isn't there.    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu ? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech     ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 18:01:07 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> 5 Subject: Re: Deleting 250,000+ files from a directory , Message-ID: <39CBD69E.35C11C18@videotron.ca>  J For that amount of files, wouldn't it be faster to backup the drive with aI /exclude for the directory, initialise the drive and reload from backup ?    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:56:16 GMT * From: Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com>5 Subject: Re: Deleting 250,000+ files from a directory ) Message-ID: <8qgkhm$vbk$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   - In article <20SEP200021010257@gerg.tamu.edu>, *   carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) wrote:1 > "Matt Jacobs" <mjacobs1@twcny.rr.com> writes... E > }An errant process added 250,000+ small files to a single directory  on my 	 > }Alpha.  > } B > }I am using a single process to delete them (delete *.*;*).  The	 files are / > }being deleted at the rate of 5,000 per hour.  > } G > }I cannot reformat the disk.  Does anyone have any suggestions on how  to more  > }quickly delete the files?  1 [explanation of the cause of the problem omitted]    > The solution?  > # > There seem to be a few good ones.  > G > The best is probably to use the DFU utility. It can delete everything  inE > a directory (and the directory itself) quite fast (I think it holds  the A > directory file open, goes through it deleting each file without  updatingB > the directory file, then closes and deletes the directory file).A > This only works to delete everything in a directory - you can'ttC > keep anything. It is very fast. If you don't already have it, youp6 > can get it off the freeware CD or the freeware site:? > http://www.openvms.digital.com/openvms/freeware/freeware.htmle >   @ I agree that DFU is best if all files in the directory are to beC deleted. But if you don't have DFU, or you want to save some of thenB files and can't easily rename them out before running DFU, use the% BACKUP/DELETE method described below:0  F > Another thing that can go faster is to do a dummy backup to the null deviceB > using the /delete qualifier to delete them after the backup. The backupH > utility seems to manage this final deletion pass a lot faster than the> > delete command does its work. So it would be something like: >e- > $ backup/delete the$disk:[the.dir]*.*;* nl:   E You need to supply a save set name after nl:. A period is sufficient.f& You also need the /SAVE_SET qualifier.   Adding   /GROUP=0/NOCRC  B will speed it up still more. (You don't need any error checking or redundancy groups.)i  1 Also, if any of these files are huge, try runningr  % $ SET FILE/NOBACKUP <the large files>l  C BEFORE running BACKUP/DELETE, which will then skip copying the hugec< amounts of data in those large files to the null device NL:.   Then,F  = $ BACKUP/DELETE disk:[dir]files NL:A.B/SAVE_SET/GROUP=0/NOCRCS  
 should do it!   E The reason this is fast is because BACKUP/DELETE deletes the files ine. something that is very close to reverse order.   >oG > Note that this will not initially delete anything - it will take timemH > for the "backup to null device" pass, before the deletion pass starts.   True.   G [DCL reverse order method omitted, let DFU or BACKUP do it if you can.]    -- Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. FeldmanE alan48  &-)h dellnet.com     & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.h   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:49:54 GMTi* From: Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com>5 Subject: Re: Deleting 250,000+ files from a directoryt) Message-ID: <8qgnmb$2si$1@nnrp1.deja.com>u  , In article <39CBD69E.35C11C18@videotron.ca>,0   JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:E > For that amount of files, wouldn't it be faster to backup the driveM with aB > /exclude for the directory, initialise the drive and reload from backup ? >e  D Well, it would be faster than $ DELETE *.*;* (getting a new computerB might be faster ;-). Actually, DFU is *extremely* fast at deletingE entire directories. The BACKUP/DELETE method is also pretty fast, butn! I'd bet DFU would be the fastest.u  D Many years ago I experimented with DIR/EXCLUDE=[dir-with-many-files]C and found that it had a large overhead that was proportional to theMG number of files being exlcuded. It was as if it were comparing each and:D every file in the excluded directory with the /EXCLUDE argmument. If? BACKUP does the same, then it may not be as fast as you expect.o  G If you want to use the INIT method, and it is true that the /EXCLUDE is*1 very slow, try the following instead of /EXCLUDE:-  ? 1. Rename the offending .DIR file to something that isn't .DIR.5  G 2. Perform a NON-image backup of the drive. (You'd have to do non-image' anyway if you use /EXCLUDE.)  C 3. Initialize the drive with appropriate qualifiers to recreate the  original "disk environement".   & 4. Restore the good files with BACKUP.   5. Delete the file you renamed.v  C This way, BACKUP won't even see the files to be excluded. (An image  backup would.)  E Of course, if you have any files that are SET FILE/ENTER'ed, they maysA not be so after the BACKUP restore operation (it depends on whicht version of BACKUP you have).   -- Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman- alan48  &-)- dellnet.com,    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.f   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:37:45 -0400e# From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>c% Subject: duh... max filename lenth??? + Message-ID: <39CBA6F9.6D155A85@hsc.vcu.edu>>   guys, i've not only clean forgotten what the max filename and filetype is for vms, i've no idea where it is in the grey wall... % anyone know of the top of their head?l   Jimh   (blushing.. i KNEW this once)w   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:26:42 -0400 # From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>s) Subject: Re: duh... max filename lenth??? + Message-ID: <39CBB272.39CF54F3@hsc.vcu.edu>    forgot.... it's vms 5.5-2....i   Jim Agnew wrote: >  > guys, i've not only clean forgotten what the max filename and filetype is for vms, i've no idea where it is in the grey wall... ' > anyone know of the top of their head?r >  > Jim0 >  > (blushing.. i KNEW this once)r   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:38:53 -0400o# From: John Vottero <John@MVPSI.com>.) Subject: RE: duh... max filename lenth???sD Message-ID: <C15945A9D9EFCF11BA8B08002BBF1CCC0CD81C@berry.mvpsi.com>  # 39.39 for ODS2, lots more for ODS5.D   > -----Original Message-----, > From: Jim Agnew [mailto:agnew@hsc.vcu.edu]* > Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 2:38 PM > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com.' > Subject: duh... max filename lenth???_ >  > @ > guys, i've not only clean forgotten what the max filename and D > filetype is for vms, i've no idea where it is in the grey wall... ' > anyone know of the top of their head?e >  > Jim, >  > (blushing.. i KNEW this once)c >    ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2000 16:36:52 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)) Subject: Re: duh... max filename lenth???s+ Message-ID: <VPOY4pMyAmdt@eisner.decus.org>m  Q In article <39CBA6F9.6D155A85@hsc.vcu.edu>, Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu> writes:c > guys, i've not only clean forgotten what the max filename and filetype is for vms, i've no idea where it is in the grey wall... ' > anyone know of the top of their head?   A NAM$C_MAXRSS for ODS-2, NAML$C_MAXRSS for ODS-5, both in $NAMDEF.e  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = Hubble Space Telescope Payload  | Federal Sector, Civil GroupoE  Flight Software Team           | please remove ".aspm" when replyingt   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Sep 2000 15:24:39 PDTT From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515) Subject: Re: Duplex Printing3 Message-ID: <ZO9O$KqlnK0D@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>   . In article <39CAD055.74EFCF38@earthlink.net>, >     	"David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes: > John Macallister wrote:r >> pI >> > Has anyone had success printing duplex to an HP8100 using the telneta >> > symbiont? >> aK >> If the HP8100 has a duplex unit installed and duplex printing is enabledPH >>  on the printer you don't have to do anything special at the VMS end. > E > Yes, that's true. You can set the printer to do duplex by default. p > , > I wonder how many folks choose to do that?  H         Here's one  raised  hand!   :-)  In  those  rare  cases  that weH     actually  want single-sided output on these printers, DCPS let's  us>     do that (I know, the case at hand is _not_ using DCPS...).           -Ken -- oM  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Edu-:  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924:  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515N  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------B  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:32:32 -0500I7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>E Subject: Re: Duplex Printing- Message-ID: <39CC1640.CD651572@earthlink.net>'  9 "Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515" wrote:* > / > In article <39CAD055.74EFCF38@earthlink.net>,0C >         "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writes:d > > John Macallister wrote:G > >>K > >> > Has anyone had success printing duplex to an HP8100 using the telnetK > >> > symbiont? > >>M > >> If the HP8100 has a duplex unit installed and duplex printing is enabled J > >>  on the printer you don't have to do anything special at the VMS end. > >4F > > Yes, that's true. You can set the printer to do duplex by default. > >0. > > I wonder how many folks choose to do that? > J >         Here's one  raised  hand!   :-)  In  those  rare  cases  that weJ >     actually  want single-sided output on these printers, DCPS let's  us@ >     do that (I know, the case at hand is _not_ using DCPS...).  < Remember, also, that DCPS is the exception and not the rule.   -- J David J. Dachtera. dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.L   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 03:10:04 GMTd9 From: stu@c49395-a.wodhvn1.mi.home.com (Stuart R. Fuller)P6 Subject: Re: ERROR TYPE - EXTENDED SENSE DATA RECEIVED% Message-ID: <5i4hq8.g1c.ln@localhost>x  , POWERS, John (John.POWERS@sema.co.uk) wrote:K : ... if it is a real problem, then what does it mean, what effect might itrG : be having on the system, and what should I do to resolve the problem?k  
 See below.  F : ... if it is not a problem, then why does the error logger write outE : these messages, and is there any way to suppress them, and stop our - : customers from fretting about non-problems?   K The error logger is fairly simple.  It just logs messages that come in fromUJ the controllers, and doesn't attempt to interpret them.  Interpretation is5 done by the people or programs reading the event log.a  * :  GENERIC DK SUB-SYSTEM, UNIT _$6$DKA101: :  DEC HSZ70  D Ok, you have an HSZ70 controller, and the disk is virtual unit D101.  ! :        ERROR TYPE            05 E :                                        EXTENDED SENSE DATA RECEIVEDM  C This means that the SCSI drive (virtual unit presented by the HSZ70sI controller) had something to say.  It is NOT the error - just that it hade something to say.f   :  :  EXTENDED SENSE DATA : ! :        EXTENDED SENSE  00060070,! :                        0A000000,! :                        00000000y! :                        0000012A-! :                            000007 :                                        UNIT ATTENTIONnB :                                        MODE SELECT PARAM CHANGED    And, this is what it had to say.  H "Mode select param changed" means that the controller (the HSZ70) told aI physical drive to change one or more of its internal modes or parameters.   L This particular event was not interesting - no error is indicated.  Just the# controller telling you what it did.            Stu    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:19:22 -0500o) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> 8 Subject: Re: FILESERV@WKU: Updated VNCviewer for OpenVMS/ Message-ID: <ssobnrbefvuk5c@corp.supernews.com>l  6 <fabio_compaq#ep-bc.petrobras.com.br> wrote in messageF news:OFA8BCEB31.B77DCDEC-ON83256962.00579606@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br...A > Would be much more interesting a Citrix ICA client for OpenVMS.o  G I have been told that there is a JAVA client that may run under OpenVMS  using Netscape.m  G If your internet connection allows the port that the ICA client uses to G pass, I think that you can download the client and try it against theire demonstration server.n  < I have not tried it myself though.  Let us know if it works.   -Johni wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 18:11:46 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>s/ Subject: Re: Freeware for extracting Mime files:, Message-ID: <39CBD91D.39351333@videotron.ca>   "Miller, Daniel" wrote:tF > Does anyone know of freeware which allows mime files to be extractedI > from mail?  We have UUENCODE/UUDECODE, but not found anything for mime.A    ' On recent VMS versions, it is included.u   $MC MIME MIME> OPEN text.file MIME> EXTRACT/ATT=nn   ------------------------------  + Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 02:56:16 +0200 (MET)d From: ZINSER@sysdev.exchange.den/ Subject: Re: Freeware for extracting Mime filesn3 Message-ID: <01JUHWIDPLDE9S4PGD@sysdev.exchange.de>   : > From:	IN%"INFO-VAX@MVB.SAIC.COM" 22-SEP-2000 17:46:01.55* > Subj:	Freeware for extracting Mime files   > Hi,h > F > Does anyone know of freeware which allows mime files to be extractedI > from mail?  We have UUENCODE/UUDECODE, but not found anything for mime.a >    Hihi,    	have a look at   0 	http://www.decus.de:8080/www/vms/sw/mpack.htmlx     					Greetings, MartinP Dr. Martin P.J. Zinser                                 zinser@sysdev.exchange.de2 Deutsche Boerse Systems AG                        O Koenigsberger Str. 29                                  Tel: +49 69 2101 5634    L 60284 Frankfurt                                        FAX: +49 69 2101 3411P Germany                                                Private:  zinser@decus.de   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Sep 2000 13:52:21 PDTT From: Fairfield@SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ken Fairfield; SLAC: 650-926-2924; FAX: 926-3515)0 Subject: Re: HELP ! VMS License Units Question -3 Message-ID: <jEUle43VmVrb@mccdev.slac.stanford.edu>o  0 In article <ssjrumc1f2k506@corp.supernews.com>, ,     	"Islandco" <sales@islandco.com> writes:  H         David and I talked a  small  bit  on  the phone yesterday, but IH     wanted to follow-up publicly in case I got some of the details wrong=     (and if I did, _please_ someone jump in and correct me!).|  N > Can someone kindly advise me of the "actual" meaning behind the OpenVMS base > license "units".  H         They  have  no  "meaning"  outside  of  the  LMF.   Within  thatH     facility, each processor/system has a required number of "units" forH     each  of  various types of licensed product.  For a given system,  aH     SHOW LICE/CHARGE will list  the  applicable  license  type  and  the     number of units required.   N > The Alpha PWS500 I have in here has OpenVMS base (QL-MT1AE-6X) 12 units, butJ > a Customer said he needed 15(Ql-MT1AE-63) to make DECwindows work on his > APWS500auB  H         No, he only needs 12 units.   But hte OPENVMS-ALPHA license doesH     _not_  grant  the  right to run DECwindows.  There's  the  misunder-H     standing.  One needs a DW-MOTIF license _or_ one of the  NET-APP-SUPH     licenses, -150 or higher.  Take a look at VMSINSTAL_LMFGROUPS.COM inH     SYS$UPDATE:.   It  compreises a list of products, or more correctly,C     licenses that each of the NET-APP-SUP-xxx licenses encompasses.i  K > Now I have loaded DECwindows many many times and have never had a problemi  H         You must have also loaded a NET-APP-SUP-xxx or DW-MOTIF license,H     otherwise DECwindows won't start.  If not,  I'd like to know exactlyH     which  system,  which version of VMS, which version  of  Decwindows/,     Motif, and which licenses _were_ loaded.  H         I really don't know the  status  of  Motif  now  that the OSF isH     defunct.   Does Compaq still pay royalties to some entity for Motif?H     If not, does that make the Motif licenses obsolete?   Did  the  lastH     release of DECwindows do away with the DW-MOTIF license requirement?   > Am I missing something ???  @         I suspect its the DW-MOTIF or NET-APP-SUP-150 license...               -Ken -- eM  Kenneth H. Fairfield            |  Internet: Fairfield@SLC.Slac.Stanford.Eduh:  SLAC, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, MS 46  |  Voice:    650-926-2924:  Menlo Park, CA  94025           |  FAX:      650-926-3515N  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------B  These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 00:54:13 GMT 2 From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>& Subject: Re: HSZ50 in Hobbyist Cluster6 Message-ID: <VaTy5.677$F93.246254@typhoon.aracnet.com>  & Uwe Zessin <zessin@my-deja.com> wrote:8 > In article <Pw9y5.526$F93.206653@typhoon.aracnet.com>,7 >   "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote:yH >> Hmmm, the manual lists the following as being supported under OpenVMSF >> for the HSZ50; KZTSA, KFTIA, PMAZC, KZMSA, KZPAA, KZPSA, and KZPBA.2 >> Unless I'm mistaken the KZPAA is a narrow card,  H > It is narrow and single-ended, so you need a DWZZ-something converter.H > I don't recognize all adapters, but note that the 'KZPBA' is available > in 2 variants:$ > KZPBA-CA:  ULTRA WIDE SINGLE-ENDED$ > KZPBA-CB:  ULTRA WIDE DIFFERENTIAL  I Ah, so I'd need to stuff a SE-to-Diff converter in there if I were to trynH and use the KZPAA?  Ouch, it's starting to sound like getting this stuffF working could cost me some serious $$$'s.  Not good.  It looks as if aI KZPBA-CB is about $500, a bit spendy on a Hobbyist budget.  Any idea if apF Intraserver 3140UD-O card would work, it looks slightly cheaper than a	 KZPBA-CB.:  D On an interesting note, the manual (HSZ50 Array Controller OperatingK Software HSOF Version 5.7), lists the following cards as being supported byr OpenVMS for HSZ50 controllersp  / KZTSI, KFTIZ, PMAZC, KZMSA, KZPAA, KZPSA, KZPBAu  B It also states next to the following controllers that they need a D DWZZ-series signal converter (the KZPAA isn't listed as needing one) PMAZC and KZMSAs  G >> AND what I've got installed in my AlphaStation 500/333, however, theBD >> manual says this is only for AlphaServers 1000/2000/2100 Systems.  - > The KZPAA-AA manual? It might be out-dated.o  L Actaully I was refering the one of the HSZ50 manuals I found on Compaq's FTP, site.  Though I don't doubt it was dated :^)  H >> I gather that if I just run it as JBOD I'd have disks such as DKB101,F >> DKB102, DKB201, DKB202?  Of course what I really want is to be able >> to do the RAID and striping.O >lC > I don't understand. If you use controller-based RAID (striping ispB > RAID-0, btw.) the host (VMS) will only see a single volume, too.B > Simply speaking: the HSZ50 controller will look like a number of > disks to it's connected host.l  L I meant that if I was to not use any of the RAID features and was instead toL use them as individual disks.  At least from what I've been able to find out this is possible.t   			Zaneh   ------------------------------  # Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 00:30:07 GMT / From: StevenU@POBoxes.com (Steven P. Underwood)a% Subject: Re: Incremental backup bluest2 Message-ID: <39cbf878.170564344@news.telocity.com>  F My "not perfect but close enough for our purposes" solution is to do aE backup/record of the online set to NL: before starting the DB back upuC and allowing the users back on.  This added less than 10 minutes toeF our backup procedure for 1-9GB system disk and 3-18GB data disks (onlyE about 25% full) and allows us to do our incrementals during the week.    Steve   8 On Fri, 22 Sep 2000 08:10:05 GMT, _RAQ_@yahoo.com wrote:  H >The way we do backups today is to shut down the DB's, splitt the shadowF >sets, restart the DB's, and then let the backup run on the "inactive"3 >shadows set members. This gives us alot of uptime.e >lG >Problem is, we cant do incremental backup, since the recording pass istD >done to the "inactive" disks. When remounting the shadow member theD >former "inactive" member with the recording pass gets overwritten -
 >fair enough.  >h >How could this be improved? >t >Thanksr >n >" >k' >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/i >Before you buy.   Steven P. Underwood,DNRC Whitinsville,MAy StevenU@POBoxes.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:44:24 -0400 ' From: "Dale A. Marcy" <dqm@y12.doe.gov>,@ Subject: Interesting result from Copy/Log with version limit set+ Message-ID: <39CBA888.633E8A97@y12.doe.gov>    List,a  M      I just encountered this situation and thought it was interesting.  I didtN a wild card copy of 11 files from a user's directory to a production directory and saw the following:  ? $ copy/log d300:[userdir]filename.ext;* production_logical:*.*; 7 %COPY-S-COPIED, d300:[userdir]filename.ext;12 copied tou/ d500:[production_dir]filename.ext;1 (50 blocks)t                                 .                                 .                                 .6 %COPY-S-COPIED, d300:[userdir]filename.ext;2 copied to0 d500:[production_dir]filename.ext;11 (50 blocks)! %COPY-S-NEWFILES, 7 files created0  I      I checked the production directory and there were only 7 files therenM instead of the 11 I copied with success messages on each one.  I deleted them-M and repeated several times until I figured out that there was a version limitmN of 7 set on the production directory.  It makes sense after figuring that out,, but it had me confused for a couple minutes.  5      This was using VMS V7.1 on an Alpha 4100 system.-  
 Dale A. Marcy-. Science Applications International Corporation   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:24:00 -0500n7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>1' Subject: Re: Is VMS worth learning....?s- Message-ID: <39CC2250.E8D77A09@earthlink.net>-   Matt Morley wrote: >  > Is VMS worth learning....  > A > That's a loaded question. Especially since this is a vms group.j > J > I've been reading up on vms manuals and it seems like it would be fun to, > learn, but what is the state of VMS usage? > 4 > What roles does VMS fulfill that other OS's don't? > : > And where, besides expensive classes could I learn this? > F > I have a feeling that I would be better setting up a box and hackingE > away with it, until I understand it. But not knowing it, I going tojH > figure out hardware... and cheap at that (us college students struggle > for hardware). > " > I have joined decus... now what? >  > -- > Matt Morley (MPCM)  ) Well, if I can blow my own horn here, ...   B I do have some hobbyist support pages set up. You can find them at# http://www.djesys.com/vms/hobbyist/   G You can find my Fall '99 DECUS presentations on DCL Programming and Zip- and Unzip for OpenVMS at -# http://www.djesys.com/vms/support/ -  . Some "fundamentals of OpenVMS" can be found at3 http://www.djesys.com/vms/freevms/index.html#mentorS  C Pat Jankowiak of the DFW LUG (DFWCUG) also has a rather informativee@ "getting started" page based on a VAXstation. You can find it at( http://www.montagar.com/~patj/vbegin.htm  C I'm hoping to get some OpenVMS Installation pages done this winter, E since I have both a MicroVAX and an Alpha here on my home office LAN.   F Until then, you'll find a wealth of OpenVMS info. (maybe more than you, wanted to know just now) in the OpenVMS FAQ:6 http://www.openvms.digital.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html: (This page is HUGE! circa. 344K or so, and still growing!)  @ You can find a bunch of OpenVMS-related links at these URLs (and others):0 http://www.openvms.com/openvms_related_sites.htm+ http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/links.htmlt  + There's a searchable "OpenVMS Wizard" page: & http://www.openvms.digital.com/wizard/   Had enough yet?    -- o David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems? http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.M   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:57:10 -0500-) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net>-' Subject: Re: Is VMS worth learning....?e/ Message-ID: <ssodunl9qqjq1a@corp.supernews.com>-  . "Matt Morley" <Matt@MPCM.com> wrote in message" news:39CC19A7.E066A629@MPCM.com... > Is VMS worth learning....h   Yes.  A > That's a loaded question. Especially since this is a vms group.h  B Yes, but I would currently recommend learning the UNIX programmingI environment also, along with the WIN32 to contrast all three of them.  IfJJ you want to be in a position to select the best tool for the job, you have5 to really know all of their strengths and weaknesses.e  : You do not want to make decisions on folklore and legends.  J Nearly all operating systems have some sort of compatibility with the UNIXG programming environment, even some that call themselves UNIX.  So it is # important to know that environment.e  G Note that OpenVMS allows you to run non-privileged programs safely thathL would require that you do "kernel hacks" on LINUX or "internals" programming on Windows.a  J > I've been reading up on vms manuals and it seems like it would be fun to, > learn, but what is the state of VMS usage?  I It is hiding behind the scenes doing 7*24 work in many places, along witht> some high profile sites like the NorthernLights search engine.  F The easiest way to find out who is using it is to enter "VAX or VMS orH OpenVMS" on one of the job listing boards and see how many hits that you get.  4 > What roles does VMS fulfill that other OS's don't?  # It is easy to learn, very reliable.   K It is almost impossible to break into from a hacker standpoint, but this issE probably only a side effect of design principles that ensure that the-9 operating system is not corrupted by a programming error.5  : > And where, besides expensive classes could I learn this?  K Look for a job at a site running VMS and get some on the job training.  And A the documentation is online.  Also see the OpenVMS FAQ for links.   F > I have a feeling that I would be better setting up a box and hackingE > away with it, until I understand it. But not knowing it, I going to H > figure out hardware... and cheap at that (us college students struggle > for hardware).  0 See the OpenVMS FAQ, and look for HOBBS the VAX.  " > I have joined decus... now what?  ( See if you can find a local users group.   Keep an open mind and have fun.    -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 11:40:23 -0700o! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com " Subject: Kind of OT, but enjoyableC Message-ID: <OF717EFD62.83CEC441-ON88256962.00665ED3@HEALTHNET.COM>i  H The AlphaServer GS320 has now appeared in the comic strip User Friendly. Start here:   C      http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20000915&mode=classicI  , The GS320 pops up a few days into the story.   Shane    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 18:43:43 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> & Subject: Re: Kind of OT, but enjoyable, Message-ID: <39CBE097.6A1506EA@videotron.ca>  " Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com wrote: > J > The AlphaServer GS320 has now appeared in the comic strip User Friendly.
 > Start here:  > E >      http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20000915&mode=classicG  R What is important to note is that it is refered to as a *DEC* ALPHA GS320 machine.  K Just like the "open" was a failed attempt by Digital, I have a feeling thatnP Compaq may fail to kill the "DEC" and "Digital" associations with VMS and Alpha.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 17:48:03 -0400 5 From: Jeff & Leisa Goodwin <JLGoodwin@cybertours.com> 9 Subject: Looking for Charles Addams "Source code" cartoonn. Message-ID: <39CBD393.D01A517C@cybertours.com>  ? I'm looking for a copy of a Charles Addams cartoon that appears  something like this:   --G A woman and two children are standing beside a fresh grave site.  It iseD pouring rain and they are huddled under an umbrella.  A man standingC next to them asks..."I know this may be an awkward time, but do yout( recall him ever mentioning source code?" --  ? I know I've seen it during some DECUS presentations in the past 5 (particularly during a VAX /Alpha migration session).t  H If anyone can point me to an website that has it or EMAIL me a scan, I'd appreciate it.  D (Apologies if this is a duplicate post, I have just developed doubtsC concerning my company's newserver's ability to facilitate posting).z  
 -Jeff Goodwino   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 16:15:43 -0400 (EDT)32 From: "Douglas S. Meade" <vaxboy@inforum2.umd.edu> Subject: Open File, or What?G Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.20.0009221612010.22877-100000@inforum2.umd.edu>U  ; I was working yesterday on porting a legacy Fortran programn: from Lahey Fortran to Vax Fortran.  I was in the debugger,= and decided to exit, but files were still open.  The debugger 7 complained, but I exited anyway.  Now I have a problem S6 with one of the source files, UTIL.FOR.  I cannot copy: it, edit it, or even type it, without hanging the console,9 at least for several minutes.  I doesn't even respond to 0= ^T.  I've even tried shutting down the machine and rebooting,i< but the problem remains.  Does anyone have a clue what could; be wrong with this file?  I've never seen this behavior on t any other OS.  n  < The machine in question is a Vaxstation 4000-500, with RF-73 disks.  
 Doug Meade 	a   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 20:36:06 GMT = From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)y  Subject: Re: Open File, or What?0 Message-ID: <009F083B.AAFDFB94@SendSpamHere.ORG>  | In article <Pine.LNX.4.20.0009221612010.22877-100000@inforum2.umd.edu>, "Douglas S. Meade" <vaxboy@inforum2.umd.edu> writes:< >I was working yesterday on porting a legacy Fortran program; >from Lahey Fortran to Vax Fortran.  I was in the debugger,:> >and decided to exit, but files were still open.  The debugger8 >complained, but I exited anyway.  Now I have a problem 7 >with one of the source files, UTIL.FOR.  I cannot copya; >it, edit it, or even type it, without hanging the console,.: >at least for several minutes.  I doesn't even respond to > >^T.  I've even tried shutting down the machine and rebooting,= >but the problem remains.  Does anyone have a clue what coulde< >be wrong with this file?  I've never seen this behavior on  >any other OS.   > = >The machine in question is a Vaxstation 4000-500, with RF-73  >disks.a >  >Doug Meadei  9 What errors do you see if you TYPE the file or attempt toL COPY it?   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             iO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:25:56 GMTr* From: Alan E. Feldman <alan48@my-deja.com>  Subject: Re: Open File, or What?) Message-ID: <8qgioc$t9h$1@nnrp1.deja.com>-  G In article <Pine.LNX.4.20.0009221612010.22877-100000@inforum2.umd.edu>,l5   "Douglas S. Meade" <vaxboy@inforum2.umd.edu> wrote: = > I was working yesterday on porting a legacy Fortran programm< > from Lahey Fortran to Vax Fortran.  I was in the debugger,? > and decided to exit, but files were still open.  The debuggera8 > complained, but I exited anyway.  Now I have a problem8 > with one of the source files, UTIL.FOR.  I cannot copy< > it, edit it, or even type it, without hanging the console,: > at least for several minutes.  I doesn't even respond to? > ^T.  I've even tried shutting down the machine and rebooting,-> > but the problem remains.  Does anyone have a clue what could< > be wrong with this file?  I've never seen this behavior on > any other OS.h > > > The machine in question is a Vaxstation 4000-500, with RF-73 > disks. >  > Doug Meade >t   Well, you can try   (    $ SEAR UTIL.FOR /OUT=NEW-UTIL.FOR  ""  / and that should strip out any funny characters.    From HELP SEARCH /FORMAT  E      TEXT     Replaces control characters in text with ANSI mnemonicsi?               (for example, Ctrl/C is replaced with <ETX>). ThesD               terminal formatting characters <HT>, <CR>, <LF>, <VT>,E               and <FF> are passed without change. TEXT is the default                format.i   Just something to try.  E What happens when you do DIR/FULL UTIL.FOR? Maybe the file attributes,D are messed up, in which case, of course, the trick above won't help.  F Can you do a DUMP/RECORD UTIL.FOR? If that produces junk, I'd say your file is hopelessly munged.   -- Disclaimer: JMHO Alan E. Feldman- alan48  &-)- dellnet.com,    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:32:39 -05005) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net>   Subject: Re: Open File, or What?/ Message-ID: <sso907gfde2853@corp.supernews.com>n  C "Douglas S. Meade" <vaxboy@inforum2.umd.education> wrote in messageHA news:Pine.LNX.4.20.0009221612010.22877-100000@inforum2.umd.edu...S= > I was working yesterday on porting a legacy Fortran programn< > from Lahey Fortran to Vax Fortran.  I was in the debugger,? > and decided to exit, but files were still open.  The debuggero" > complained, but I exited anyway.  7 Do you have the exact complaint that the debugger made?a  5 I have never seen the debugger make such a complaint.U  K I have seen programs that have exit handlers in them issue diagnostics whene you exit the debugger.   >  Now I have a problems8 > with one of the source files, UTIL.FOR.  I cannot copy< > it, edit it, or even type it, without hanging the console, > at least for several minutes.o  , Look at the file with the directory command.   $DIR UTIL.FOR/FULL  F Attempting to EDIT a large file with EVE/TPU can hang a system if your9 process quotas allow you to consume all of the page file.H   >  I doesn't even respond to? > ^T.  I've even tried shutting down the machine and rebooting,p> > but the problem remains.  Does anyone have a clue what could< > be wrong with this file?  I've never seen this behavior on > any other OS.c  I I would be guessing, but I suspect that you somehow overwrote your sourcewJ code with the program output, and created a very large file, probably full of binary zero bytes.l  0 This can also be verified with the DUMP command.  / You do have a backup copy?  Or a prior version?r  > > The machine in question is a Vaxstation 4000-500, with RF-73 > disks.  H I am unaware of a VAXstation of that model.  A VAXstation has a graphics display console and a mouse.  L The version of the operating system and the Fortran compiler might have someA bearing on a problem being reported, but in this case I doubt it.n    L The VAX 4000-500 is sufficiently fast enough to put out enough null bytes toG a serial terminal so that it is too far behind to display or act on thee" control-T key for quite some time.   -Johnl wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2000 16:12:20 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler), Subject: Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships+ Message-ID: <p8LP1XP$JtLS@eisner.decus.org>   p In article <009F07FA.BA82803B@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes: > G > When I worked for GE Astro, it believe that there was talk of FreedomfG > having intel based computers.  What do you know of that?  I worked on = > the ill-fated Mars Obs. and that was the MIL-STD-1760A CPU.l     8051 or 8057 I think.T  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationo= Hubble Space Telescope Payload  | Federal Sector, Civil GroupSE  Flight Software Team           | please remove ".aspm" when replyingt   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:27:25 GMT,4 From: "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam>, Subject: Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy shipsF Message-ID: <19Qy5.13841$nk3.655978@newsread03.prod.itd.earthlink.net>  K Just because it has an Intel processor in it doesn't mean that MS wrote thef OS.  --	 Mike Obere  9 "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.decus.org> wrote in message % news:p8LP1XP$JtLS@eisner.decus.org...TJ > In article <009F07FA.BA82803B@SendSpamHere.ORG>, system@SendSpamHere.ORG' (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) writes:l > >yI > > When I worked for GE Astro, it believe that there was talk of FreedomeI > > having intel based computers.  What do you know of that?  I worked onI? > > the ill-fated Mars Obs. and that was the MIL-STD-1760A CPU.D >3 >   8051 or 8057 I think.v > H > ----------------------------------------------------------------------A > Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationo? > Hubble Space Telescope Payload  | Federal Sector, Civil GroupgG >  Flight Software Team           | please remove ".aspm" when replying3   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:18:59 GMT;= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-) , Subject: Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships0 Message-ID: <009F084A.0AC81FDF@SendSpamHere.ORG>  } In article <19Qy5.13841$nk3.655978@newsread03.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam> writes:oL >Just because it has an Intel processor in it doesn't mean that MS wrote the >OS.  H Gee, you think?  I don't know anything about the operating system of theH Freedom as I didn't work on it.  The closest I got to Freedom were a fewI conversations with a Bob Cenker (sic?) who was an astronaut on one of thedH missions which launched a GE bird (STS-25?)  He was one of the GE figure! heads for the portion GE built.  p  I I did work on the M.O. and the overal environment of that bird was reallye quite primorial. 2  : Anyhow, I merely asked about the processor, not the "O/S".   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMr             O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.s   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 10:17:04 -0700 * From: "George Shouse" <USENET@Shouses.com>+ Subject: Re: OT: More MSFT on US Navy shipss, Message-ID: <8qg48903027@enews1.newsguy.com>  = "andrew harrison" <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote in messaged$ news:39CB3922.578B3250@uk.sun.com... > Koloth wrote:b > > H > > Wasn't there the USS Yorktown that was dead in the water due to a NT problem?  C > Yes but it was OK the ship wasn't in a real battlefield situatione > so no one died.   = I'm hoping that was droll.  Otherwise, it explains sooo much.-   --) George Shouse      http://www.shouses.como) -----------------------------------------s) Always A Fan of the World Champion Lakerst" Retire #99 and Hang the Banners!!!   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 17:56:17 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>y8 Subject: Re: Please help a poorly Microvax 3100 - update, Message-ID: <39CBD57C.4750826E@videotron.ca>   Roger Woodward wrote:aL > The hyroglyphics now start in the middle of the self test (Ive just turnedJ > it on again, it started waffling after ...C...B) so I am rather thinking+ > that something internally is going wrong.e  L If you had a real VT terminal, I would suggest putting the terminal into theL "display control characters" mode. It is possible you are getting some weirdH escape sequence that thrown your terminal into some hieroglyphiocs mode.  L Does it stop dumping garbage to your screen eventually ? At that point, whatN happens if you type "B<cr>" ? Do you heard the hard disk working (eg: does the machine boot) ?e   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Sep 2000 21:51:01 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)7 Subject: Re: Porting Support (was Re: Compaq VMS promo)w6 Message-ID: <8qgk85$5og$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  ` In article <8qg3qb$2i5o$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>, bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes:3 :In article <39cb20cd.1363946421@news.newsguy.com>,o) : A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig) writes:o( :|>...StarOffice should be a priority... :...StarOffice...l  F   The StarOffice source code will not be available for porting for at D   least another couple of weeks, per the announced release schedule.  H   The we-need-StarOffice discussions are interesting.  Ok, you need it. D   I'd also really like to have it.  But there is nothing that anyoneE   can do -- well, except for the folks at Sun, of course -- prior to eF   the general availability of the StarOffice source code, and prior toE   a careful look at any particular licensing terms and/or conditions.s  G :My suggestion was for someone, Compaq (except they don't seem to care uF :much)... to put together a grant to provide some ... schools who are J :interested with some hardware and software and funding to hire promising # :students to actaully do the ports.r  D   A good idea, though there is an associated cost beyond the obviousG   financials -- we would want to work with and support the effort, and yF   to track the progress of the porting work.  I'll suggest this optionH   as part of some other related (and currently unspecified) discussions E   pending or associated with this particular group of customers.  We uH   have already provided hardware and support to individuals and groups, F   assistance for the folks that have been porting particular software >   packages over to OpenVMS -- ample precedent, in other words.   N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 18:03:40 GMTs= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)a Subject: Re: Press Release0 Message-ID: <009F0826.5F9ACAF1@SendSpamHere.ORG>  g In article <OF5208CB0C.7A1566C0-ON88256962.005B9F8D@HEALTHNET.COM>, Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes:h >eJ >Sue, what have you done with my balls? I've been sitting here waiting forK >my balls to arrive in the post, and so far nothing. I certainly used to berJ >on the mailing list, but perhaps I've been removed - or to put it another! >way, my balls have been cut off.g >s >Shane >jH >P.S. I know. Someday my inability to resist a straight line will get me >into trouble....    There's always unix.  ;)   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMk            gO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:46:21 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: Press Release- Message-ID: <39CBB70D.9E7BBD21@tsoft-inc.com>h   Alan Greig wrote:k > 5 > On Fri, 22 Sep 2000 09:15:43 -0400, "Sue Skonetski"0( > <susan.skonetski@compaq.nospam> wrote: >  > >Dear Newsgroup, > >O4 > >As I get this kind of information I will post it. > >6N > >Thank you for being part of the OpenVMS community.  And for keeping me in a > >job that I love.. >  > Keep it up Sue!h > B > And we just received our balls this morning. Amazingly effectiveC > marketing tool. Pity we haven't got any work done today though :)- > F > One minor complaint: I've tried booting it a few times but can't getD > to a VMS prompt. Just an error code flashed from the console LEDs.C > What am I doing wrong? Maybe I'm just not booting it hard enough.. >  > -- > Alan Greig  . Lets just be careful which balls we boot.  :-)   billy-boy's would be fine.   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:47:32 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: Press Release- Message-ID: <39CBB754.AECDEC2D@tsoft-inc.com><  & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: > i > In article <OF5208CB0C.7A1566C0-ON88256962.005B9F8D@HEALTHNET.COM>, Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes:  > >yL > >Sue, what have you done with my balls? I've been sitting here waiting forM > >my balls to arrive in the post, and so far nothing. I certainly used to benL > >on the mailing list, but perhaps I've been removed - or to put it another# > >way, my balls have been cut off.b > >  > >Shane > >mJ > >P.S. I know. Someday my inability to resist a straight line will get me > >into trouble....p >  > There's always unix.  ;) >  > --Q > VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COMa > Q > city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.o  7 I think I'm getting it now.  Unix is VMS without balls?f   -- t4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 18:14:43 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n Subject: Re: Press Release, Message-ID: <39CBD9CD.5465FAFA@videotron.ca>   Alan Greig wrote:d. > And we just received our balls this morning.   I got mine when I was born.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 18:17:27 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>l Subject: Re: Press Release, Message-ID: <39CBDA71.4165D94C@videotron.ca>  ! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote: K > Like Alan G., my ball arrived this morning but that's not the reason I've?" > got very little work done today.  = If you only got one ball, shouldn't you be concerned ???? :-)0  F Since they said "We're VMS and we've got ballS", should they be giving customers at least 2 balls ?   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:11:55 GMT-= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)D Subject: Re: Press Release0 Message-ID: <009F0849.0DD92CD4@SendSpamHere.ORG>  Z In article <39CBB754.AECDEC2D@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:' >"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:  >>  j >> In article <OF5208CB0C.7A1566C0-ON88256962.005B9F8D@HEALTHNET.COM>, Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes: >> >M >> >Sue, what have you done with my balls? I've been sitting here waiting foreN >> >my balls to arrive in the post, and so far nothing. I certainly used to beM >> >on the mailing list, but perhaps I've been removed - or to put it anothert$ >> >way, my balls have been cut off. >> >	 >> >Shane  >> >K >> >P.S. I know. Someday my inability to resist a straight line will get men >> >into trouble.... >> e >> There's always unix.  ;)y >> r >> -- R >> VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM >> eR >> city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them. >m8 >I think I'm getting it now.  Unix is VMS without balls?   No.  Just an O/S without.    --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             -O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.a   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 18:09:22 -04009- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>2 Subject: Re: Press Release, Message-ID: <39CBD88C.3851C421@videotron.ca>   Sue Skonetski wrote:3 > As I get this kind of information I will post it.   = > Digitask Consultants, Inc. Extends Compaq OpenVMS  Servicest    M Great stuff Sue.... the more such releases that exsiting custer see, the moreoK they might beleive that Compaq has stopped trying to kill VMS. And the moreeJ the press sees mention of VMS, the ore they may take notice of some future  Compaq announmcements about VMS.  E Now, if you guys could simply drop that "open" bit to really signal atS departure from Bob Palmer "kill VMS" policies, that would be a major step forwards.c   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 16:47:52 -0600n- From: Lorin Ricker <Lorin.Ricker@t-netix.com>o Subject: Press Release; Message-ID: <418E68E524A8D311ACCE00508B78866A768178@DENXCH>a   JF Mezei wrote:   G > Now, if you guys could simply drop that "open" bit to really signal ac@ > departure from Bob Palmer "kill VMS" policies, that would be a > major step forwards.  I Bravo!  Hear, Hear!  Yes, good old, plain, proprietary, closed "VMS" that)D works...  "Open..." just made it all seem so slick and presumptuous!  
   -- Lorin   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Sep 2000 23:28:03 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) Subject: Re: Press Release6 Message-ID: <8qgpu3$69s$3@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  k In article <418E68E524A8D311ACCE00508B78866A768178@DENXCH>, Lorin Ricker <Lorin.Ricker@t-netix.com> writes:u :JF Mezei wrote: :eH :> Now, if you guys could simply drop that "open" bit to really signal aA :> departure from Bob Palmer "kill VMS" policies, that would be ao :> major step forwards.- :-J :Bravo!  Hear, Hear!  Yes, good old, plain, proprietary, closed "VMS" thatE :works...  "Open..." just made it all seem so slick and presumptuous!D  E   Those of us who lived through the prefixification dread the conceptrB   of deprefixification -- just the effort involved in changing the+   displays and the documentation boggles.     H   As we have finally seen the original questions and the confusion that H   resulted from the "VMS to OpenVMS" discussions reduced, and we are nowG   most of the way through the Compaq-related product name changes, now oF   y'all want us to start up this renaming stuff all over again?  Did I0   really understand that request correctly?  :-)  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Sep 2000 20:12:05 PDT* From: abuse@flying-disk.com (Alan Frisbie) Subject: Re: Press Release! Message-ID: <qPYb5CmrF5DI@flying>I  7 In article <8qgpu3$69s$3@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, c4 hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:  J >   As we have finally seen the original questions and the confusion that J >   resulted from the "VMS to OpenVMS" discussions reduced, and we are nowI >   most of the way through the Compaq-related product name changes, now vH >   y'all want us to start up this renaming stuff all over again?  Did I2 >   really understand that request correctly?  :-)                            YES!!!e   -- yB --  Alan E. Frisbie             Frisbie "AT" Flying-Disk "DOT" Com@ --  Flying Disk Systems, Inc.   Abuse "AT" Flying-Disk "DOT" Com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:45:56 -0400 : From: "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" <John.C.Koska@bender.com>- Subject: RE: Problem with COMPAQ 9.1GB drivesoK Message-ID: <D7E0F3C94377D311A24A00805F19D0EE52A764@MBCALBEXC04.BENDER.COM>p   > -----Original Message-----5 > From: Bill McLaughlin [mailto:mcbill20@hotmail.com]n+ > Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 11:34 AMn > To: Info-VAX@mvb.saic.comy+ > Subject: Problem with COMPAQ 9.1GB drivesa .e .d . @ > be some bad blocks. COMPAQ tells me that "drives usually have  > a few bad - > blocks" and that I should work around them.a  # This is typical from my experience.o  > > Since there doesn't seem to be the usual bad block flagging < > and replacement mechanism for local SCSI drives, I am not = > sure what to do. COMPAQ's suggestion was to leave this old d# > file there and create a new one. A  D Reasonable advice.  Duplicate the file, anal/disk to see if the new ? file is ok, then delete old and rename or copy new back to old.u8 I would also have a good copy on tape before proceeding.   > The file MB > is very large, and I don't feel this is a valid solution anyway. > . > 1) Should I keep this drive or send it back?  @ If you send it back, you will have to have a good backup of the > disk, which leads me to what I would do.  I would make sure I ? have a good backup of the disk, and then do an anal/media with y= retry such that a destructive media test is done and all the 0B blocks on the disk are touched.  If you get errors in anal/media, > then do it again.  If you still get errors, then get the disk @ replaced.  Yes, the destructive anal/media will take awhile, but? it exercises the disk fairly well in my opinion.  I usually do h< destructive anal/media on any new disk to burn it in before > putting it into service, but your mileage may vary doing this.  E For me, it is not so much that bad block replacements happen, but theOG rate of them.  Typically, a high rate can suggest the disk going bad.   H Also, with a high enough rate and if you are using volume shadowing, the- host based shadowing will fail appropriately.k  : > 2) Has anyone else had problems with these 9.1GB drives?  D I have had problems, but nothing out of the ordinary.  Out of a diskE farm of about 100 disks, I had 3 or 4 go bad in a few years.  Failure B rate depends on a lot of things (environment, physical treatment, C usage, etc.), besides manufacturing flaws.  All in all, the 9.1 gig % drives were great drives in my hands.p   :) jck  -   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Sep 2000 19:37:28 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)- Subject: Re: Problem with COMPAQ 9.1GB drivesa6 Message-ID: <8qgcdo$4qb$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  d In article <F205Er8pkpLkTgbLYlu00001d2f@hotmail.com>, Bill McLaughlin <mcbill20@hotmail.com> writes:E :. I purchased a COMPAQ (Quantum, I think) 9.1 GB drive for an alpha nG :in April. This drive failed last month and COMPAQ sent a replacement.    I   Which specific disk, and which AlphaServer and which storage enclosure?T  D   It is quite possible to install a disk into an enclosure that has G   insufficient cooling for the particular device, and the hotter disks bE   can effectively cook themselves over time.  Disks that overheat caniA   have a variety of failures, and can operate quite correctly for B   a surprisingly long time before starting to degrade and/or fail.B   7200 RPM drives into BA350 enclosures with single-speed fans canE   see failures.  (eg: there was a fan and airflow baffle upgrade kit  G   made made available for various BA350 series enclosures for use with s$   the faster/hotter 7200 RPM disks.)  J :Once the data was restored, the drive seemed to work OK. However, during K :a large software installation, the drive loged a few parity errors. There eK :appear to be some bad blocks. COMPAQ tells me that "drives usually have a e4 :few bad blocks" and that I should work around them.  A   Drives do normally have some number of bad blocks -- most everyeD   modern disk has one or more lists of the bad blocks that have beenA   detected during the manufacturing testing and during later use.a  G   Data blocks restored from BACKUPs of files residing on bad blocks canhF   continue to carry warnings of the errors until the data in the blockI   is itself rewritten back out to the disk -- this to flag that the data  I   that was read from the bad block might well be corrupt, even though the /   data is probably now written to a good block.u  M :Since there doesn't seem to be the usual bad block flagging and replacement 0< :mechanism for local SCSI drives, I am not sure what to do.   4   OpenVMS and SCSI disks do have bad block handling.  L :COMPAQ's suggestion was to leave this old file there and create a new one.   D   A good suggestion, though you can clearly remove the old file once   you have the new file.  J :The file is very large, and I don't feel this is a valid solution anyway.  ?   This proposed solution can be the correct one for many of thei   common sorts of disk errors.  >   The bad block handling is triggered when a block is written.  C   When files containing bad blocks are (re)written (and effectivelyiD   also when the files are deleted), the bad physical blocks will be E   removed from circulation and the logical blocks will be revectored n   to good physical blocks.   - :1) Should I keep this drive or send it back?      I'd first rewrite the files.  9 :2) Has anyone else had problems with these 9.1GB drives?s  F   If you start seeing extensive NEW errors arising with the new disk, C   then I'd be concerned.  But until you know the source of the diskeE   block error(s) -- were these errors new to the current disk, or are.E   they carry-overs from the old (failing) disk -- I'd not assume thatr$   there were problems with new disk.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 19:39:33 GMT ( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>- Subject: Re: Problem with COMPAQ 9.1GB drives ' Message-ID: <G1Azxx.78C@spcuna.spc.edu>c  . Bill McLaughlin <mcbill20@hotmail.com> writes:O > Hello all. I purchased a COMPAQ (Quantum, I think) 9.1 GB drive for an alpha tM > in April. This drive failed last month and COMPAQ sent a replacement. Once eN > the data was restored, the drive seemed to work OK. However, during a large N > software installation, the drive loged a few parity errors. There appear to J > be some bad blocks. COMPAQ tells me that "drives usually have a few bad - > blocks" and that I should work around them.g  J   That is nonsense. SCSI drives present a "logically perfect" media to theK host system - any blocks that were bad at manufacture time have been mapped.J out. If you're seeing bad blocks now, they've appeared since the drive was, built, and are likely to continue appearing.  K   I happen to use Seagate SCSI drives exclusively, and Seagate has no prob-iL lem with getting a drive back with even *one* field defect as the reason for return.-  N > Since there doesn't seem to be the usual bad block flagging and replacement F > mechanism for local SCSI drives, I am not sure what to do. COMPAQ's M > suggestion was to leave this old file there and create a new one. The file cB > is very large, and I don't feel this is a valid solution anyway.  H   Actually, VMS does do this for SCSI drives it "knows" about, using theI "read/write long" SCSI commands. I've seen it work on at least one of thelH newer drives with "COMPAQ" vendor strings, but it was a Seagate. I don't  know if it works on all of them.  . > 1) Should I keep this drive or send it back?     Back it up and send it back.  : > 2) Has anyone else had problems with these 9.1GB drives?  K   I have 4 Compaq 9GB drives on DS10's (they're Seagate low profile drives). and haven't had any problems.)  - 	Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com 5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USAi   ------------------------------  + Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:32:09 +0000 (GMT) , From: Bill McLaughlin <mcbill20@hotmail.com>- Subject: Re: Problem with COMPAQ 9.1GB drivese5 Message-ID: <F210AitVGeSJIEoPXCF00002181@hotmail.com>s  9 Hoff Hoffman [mailto:hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam]wrote:e  ) >Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 1:37 PM  >To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com. >Subject: Re: Problem with COMPAQ 9.1GB drives >u >  >OF >In article <F205Er8pkpLkTgbLYlu00001d2f@hotmail.com>, Bill McLaughlin ><mcbill20@hotmail.com> writes:cE >:. I purchased a COMPAQ (Quantum, I think) 9.1 GB drive for an alpha G >:in April. This drive failed last month and COMPAQ sent a replacement.f >iL >   Which specific disk, and which AlphaServer and which storage >enclosure?  F It's an RZ2DC-CA, ALphstation 500/266, internal. (I'd love a desk-side5 Storageworks enclosure, but they are VERY expensive.)n   >LE >   It is quite possible to install a disk into an enclosure that hashH >   insufficient cooling for the particular device, and the hotter disksG >   can effectively cook themselves over time.  Disks that overheat can C >   have a variety of failures, and can operate quite correctly for-D >   a surprisingly long time before starting to degrade and/or fail.D >   7200 RPM drives into BA350 enclosures with single-speed fans canF >   see failures.  (eg: there was a fan and airflow baffle upgrade kitH >   made made available for various BA350 series enclosures for use with& >   the faster/hotter 7200 RPM disks.) >nJ >:Once the data was restored, the drive seemed to work OK. However, duringK >:a large software installation, the drive loged a few parity errors. There K >:appear to be some bad blocks. COMPAQ tells me that "drives usually have a 5 >:few bad blocks" and that I should work around them.c >aC >   Drives do normally have some number of bad blocks -- most everyeF >   modern disk has one or more lists of the bad blocks that have beenC >   detected during the manufacturing testing and during later use.h >iI >   Data blocks restored from BACKUPs of files residing on bad blocks can H >   continue to carry warnings of the errors until the data in the blockJ >   is itself rewritten back out to the disk -- this to flag that the dataK >   that was read from the bad block might well be corrupt, even though theb1 >   data is probably now written to a good block.T > B >:Since there doesn't seem to be the usual bad block flagging and  >replacement< >:mechanism for local SCSI drives, I am not sure what to do. >76 >   OpenVMS and SCSI disks do have bad block handling.  I That's good to know. The person at the CSC (in hardware support) told me fH that the SCSI ones don't have that. He must not have been a real tech--   maybe more of a "screener" type.   >eL >:COMPAQ's suggestion was to leave this old file there and create a new one. >aF >   A good suggestion, though you can clearly remove the old file once >   you have the new file. >fK >:The file is very large, and I don't feel this is a valid solution anyway.7 >1A >   This proposed solution can be the correct one for many of theA  >   common sorts of disk errors.  M What I meant was, I thought the system should handle bad block replacement-- oK I don't feel that I should have to keep track of bad blocks by making sure 'K they stay allocated by old files. The COMPAQ person on the phone indicated s that this was my only option.-   > @ >   The bad block handling is triggered when a block is written. > E >   When files containing bad blocks are (re)written (and effectivelyDE >   also when the files are deleted), the bad physical blocks will be@F >   removed from circulation and the logical blocks will be revectored >   to good physical blocks.  K That was my understanding before (I've worked with these systems since the S
 RA81 days.   >t. >:1) Should I keep this drive or send it back? >   >   I'd first rewrite the files.  M So far, it seems OK now that I've copied the files for the third time. After iL the first time, I deleted the entire directory tree and started over again. J The error log info you saw was from after this second attempt. So far, no  errors from the third.   >m: >:2) Has anyone else had problems with these 9.1GB drives? >oG >   If you start seeing extensive NEW errors arising with the new disk,eE >   then I'd be concerned.  But until you know the source of the disk>G >   block error(s) -- were these errors new to the current disk, or aredG >   they carry-overs from the old (failing) disk -- I'd not assume that?& >   there were problems with new disk. >n, >  --------------------------- pure personal$ >opinion ---------------------------4 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering    >hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.comm >  >- >-  
 Thank you!   Bill McLaughlin   I _________________________________________________________________________aI Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.>  D Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at  http://profiles.msn.com.   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Sep 2000 23:21:21 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)- Subject: Re: Problem with COMPAQ 9.1GB drivess6 Message-ID: <8qgphh$69s$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  d In article <F210AitVGeSJIEoPXCF00002181@hotmail.com>, Bill McLaughlin <mcbill20@hotmail.com> writes:2 :It's an RZ2DC-CA, ALphstation 500/266, internal.   E   I'll have to check the thermal output, but an UltraSCSI disk might e0   not be supported within that system enclosure.  7 :>   OpenVMS and SCSI disks do have bad block handling.o : J :That's good to know. The person at the CSC (in hardware support) told me I :that the SCSI ones don't have that. He must not have been a real tech-- i! :maybe more of a "screener" type.o  H   The bad block error handling universe is definitely pretty weird, and F   how bad blocking is performed and which components are involved can 0   vary by controller and by the disk technology.   :>M :>:COMPAQ's suggestion was to leave this old file there and create a new one.  :>G :>   A good suggestion, though you can clearly remove the old file oncea :>   you have the new file.  :>L :>:The file is very large, and I don't feel this is a valid solution anyway. :>B :>   This proposed solution can be the correct one for many of the! :>   common sorts of disk errors.x :mN :What I meant was, I thought the system should handle bad block replacement-- L :I don't feel that I should have to keep track of bad blocks by making sure L :they stay allocated by old files. The COMPAQ person on the phone indicated  :that this was my only option.  F   OpenVMS and (particularly) the disks do track and handle the errors.  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:06:24 -0500g* From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>8 Subject: Re[2]: Deleting 250,000+ files from a directory- Message-ID: <0033000005040347000002L072*@MHS>q   =0AJim Agnew wrote:h >eH > you can do a dir/size:all of the dir, sort it in reverse order, trim = off the H extraneous info in a editor, > and turn it into a delete com file....  = for arH one-shot deal like this, that is probably the fastest solution you can = comeupH with... > now, it won't run as fast as dfu, but the simplicity of it an= d theaH fact it can run in batch w/o your attention, gives it a tiny > peice of=  merit..    1 Out of curiosity, why do you specify "/size:all"?   E If the intent is to get the listing into a single column, you can usezH "/columns=3D1".  This eliminates the need to trim the size from the end=  ofl@ the line.  It also eliminates the time required to read the fileH attributes to get the size, which would be considerable for 250K files.=    H -----------------------------------------------------------------------=  $ Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc.  B Voice: 817-237-3360            Internet: chris@applied-synergy.com   Fax: 817-237-3074   H      The proper action to take with respect to anybody who'd put 250K f= ilesH      in a single directory on an OpenVMS system is left as an exercise = to      the student.a        WWWebb=   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 13:53:37 -0400.# From: Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu>Q' Subject: Re: Suggested VMS new feature!D+ Message-ID: <39CB9CA1.E0363F07@hsc.vcu.edu>C  A you have my sympathy... and fellowship of the agony of delete!!!!:   jl   John Nixon wrote:e > M > I bet none of you will ever guess why I am asking for this new feature now!P > ;-(w > K > How difficult would it be to inocorporate an undelete utility within VMS?" > WithG > the huge disk drives that are coming available, it seems to me that aa
 > wastebasketiH > concept, where all "deleted" files are temporarily deposited, would be > extremelynK > usefull.  Especially in light of the VMS propensity to use the last block  > freed for'! > the next disk space allocation.d > K > The utility could allocate a percentage of the disk for deleted files.  A  > showJ > device command wouldn't display this space as available.  There could beN > various ways of emptying the waste basket, but the point would be that rightN > after you hit the delete key, and then utter "Oh  Sh*t" , you would at least > have" > a prayer of retrieving the file.   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 18:01:49 GMTk= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)e' Subject: Re: Suggested VMS new feature!n0 Message-ID: <009F0826.1D8F6DA8@SendSpamHere.ORG>  w In article <5gLy5.1782$6T.157328@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net> writes: L >I bet none of you will ever guess why I am asking for this new feature now! >;-( >lJ >How difficult would it be to inocorporate an undelete utility within VMS? >WithhF >the huge disk drives that are coming available, it seems to me that a >wastebasketG >concept, where all "deleted" files are temporarily deposited, would bet
 >extremelyJ >usefull.  Especially in light of the VMS propensity to use the last block
 >freed for  >the next disk space allocation. >uJ >The utility could allocate a percentage of the disk for deleted files.  A >showaI >device command wouldn't display this space as available.  There could be?M >various ways of emptying the waste basket, but the point would be that rightoM >after you hit the delete key, and then utter "Oh  Sh*t" , you would at leasto >have ! >a prayer of retrieving the file.e >e > H Glenn Everhart's "Safety" product will do this for you.  You can find it  on the OpenVMS V4.0 freeware CD. --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM             @O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.e   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Sep 2000 19:43:49 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)' Subject: Re: Suggested VMS new feature!:6 Message-ID: <8qgcpl$4qb$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  w In article <5gLy5.1782$6T.157328@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net> writes:iJ :How difficult would it be to inocorporate an undelete utility within VMS?     Not particularly difficult.a  K :With the huge disk drives that are coming available, it seems to me that abK :wastebasket concept, where all "deleted" files are temporarily deposited, a :would be extremely usefull.    E   This can be easily hacked using a local symbol for the delete verb g$   and a small DCL command procedure.  > :...device command wouldn't display this space as available.    F   Leaving it in a hidden folder would be rather tougher, but solutionsF   such as simply marking the file for delete and not actually deletingH   it would leave it buried in the file structure.  At some future time, 9   an ANALYZE/DISK/REPAIR could finish the file deletion. i  C   The downside is that this fills up the file structure, of course.d  I :There could be various ways of emptying the waste basket, but the point tF :would be that right after you hit the delete key...you would at least& :have a prayer of retrieving the file.  G   Dismount the disk immediately, and use one of the available undelete n   tools?  H   And, as was suggested elsewhere, please check the appropriateness and 9   the timeliness of your current data archiving strategy.r  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 13:42:59 -0700n* From: "George Shouse" <USENET@Shouses.com>' Subject: Re: Suggested VMS new feature!d, Message-ID: <8qggb201g6b@enews3.newsguy.com>  : "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message? news:5gLy5.1782$6T.157328@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...sH > I bet none of you will ever guess why I am asking for this new feature now! > ;-(e >eK > How difficult would it be to inocorporate an undelete utility within VMS?I > WithG > the huge disk drives that are coming available, it seems to me that ah
 > wastebasketoH > concept, where all "deleted" files are temporarily deposited, would be > extremely K > usefull.  Especially in light of the VMS propensity to use the last blockn > freed forv! > the next disk space allocation.e >)K > The utility could allocate a percentage of the disk for deleted files.  Al > showJ > device command wouldn't display this space as available.  There could beH > various ways of emptying the waste basket, but the point would be that right H > after you hit the delete key, and then utter "Oh  Sh*t" , you would at leasto > have" > a prayer of retrieving the file.   $ DEL*ETE :== RENAME [TRASH]  D Yeah, you need a little more than that.  I'd bet you could whip up a( replacement for delete in a few hours...   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:17:40 GMTl+ From: jcring@switch.com (John C. Ring, Jr.)-' Subject: Re: Suggested VMS new feature!-, Message-ID: <8qgigv$r0j$1@usenet.switch.com>  [ In article <8qgcpl$4qb$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>, hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam wrote:  > L >In article <5gLy5.1782$6T.157328@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, "John- > Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net> writes:AK >:How difficult would it be to inocorporate an undelete utility within VMS?  >l >  Not particularly difficult.  H Maybe the trickiest thing is how you would treat this from a disk quota M standpoint?  When a user "deletes" a file, is it still charged against their i quota?  M If so, deleting it hasn't done the user much good, now has it!  Unless maybe a0 they instead issue a $DELETE/MakeItSo command :)  M If not, unless you put a quota on deleted files, the user now has a neat way tM to increase his/her quota!  Maybe then you want to be able to assign "delete c quotas".   -------------------------- John C. Ring, Jr.e jcring@switch.comr' Web and Network Technologies Specialists Union Switch & Signal Inc.   "In other words, the State does nothing to create value; the value is created by respondents' funds." -- US Supreme Court in PHILLIPS vs. WASHINGTON LEGAL FOUNDATION (96-1578)i   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 18:22:07 -0400 - From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>a' Subject: Re: Suggested VMS new feature!o, Message-ID: <39CBDB89.B445CA50@videotron.ca>  G > the huge disk drives that are coming available, it seems to me that a 
 > wastebasketsH > concept, where all "deleted" files are temporarily deposited, would be > extremelyd
 > usefull.  J ALL-IN-1 (aka: Office Server) has had that for over a decade. And it'd got7 regular automated jobs that empty wastebaskets for you.C  H There are at least one undelete utility for VMS. But that is useful whenP you've just deleted something and can drop all users to preserve the disk drive.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:45:06 -0400 ' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com>(' Subject: Re: Suggested VMS new feature! ( Message-ID: <8qh57l$bi2$1@pyrite.mv.net>  J My dim recollection is that TOPS-10 Delete (as opposed to Expunge - a termJ which at least in me elicits a more appropriately respectful reaction thanF 'Delete/MakeItSo') was accompanied by automatic space reclamation whenG necessary.  With quotas enabled, such a facility would presumably startFH reclaiming space as necessary (preferably oldest-deleted-first) to avoid exceeding quota.   - bill  6 John C. Ring, Jr. <jcring@switch.com> wrote in message& news:8qgigv$r0j$1@usenet.switch.com...8 > In article <8qgcpl$4qb$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>,$ hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam wrote: > >0H > >In article <5gLy5.1782$6T.157328@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, "Johnf/ > > Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net> writes:mH > >:How difficult would it be to inocorporate an undelete utility within VMS? > >v  > >  Not particularly difficult. >tI > Maybe the trickiest thing is how you would treat this from a disk quotagH > standpoint?  When a user "deletes" a file, is it still charged against theirt > quota? >iH > If so, deleting it hasn't done the user much good, now has it!  Unless maybee2 > they instead issue a $DELETE/MakeItSo command :) >lJ > If not, unless you put a quota on deleted files, the user now has a neat way F > to increase his/her quota!  Maybe then you want to be able to assign "deleter
 > quotas". >. > -------------------------- > John C. Ring, Jr.n > jcring@switch.com ) > Web and Network Technologies Specialisti > Union Switch & Signal Inc. >eG > "In other words, the State does nothing to create value; the value is C created by respondents' funds." -- US Supreme Court in PHILLIPS vs. % WASHINGTON LEGAL FOUNDATION (96-1578)g   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:25:22 -0500r7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>"' Subject: Re: Suggested VMS new feature! - Message-ID: <39CC1492.3D83A263@earthlink.net>r   John Nixon wrote:  > M > I bet none of you will ever guess why I am asking for this new feature now!t > ;-(b > K > How difficult would it be to inocorporate an undelete utility within VMS?t [snip]  D Well, here's one possible idea. I'm sure there are lots of others...   VMS Wastebasketn ---------------n  ( Essentially you would need two programs:    1. RECYCLE.EXEr  >     A program that supports all of the command line parameters?     and qualifiers of the existing DELETE command pertaining toh;     the processing of RMS files. Instead of calling $DELETE:2     to delete each file, loop through these steps:  >     a. First determine the device name for RVN-1 of the volume!        on which the file resides.n  >     b. Determine whether a WASTEBASKET directory exists on the?        device identified in (a). If not, create it by invoking t@        the appropriate system service(s). Then, in either case, @        set a flag indicating that this step has been satisfied. ?        This will, obviously, require different privileges than o        the subsequent step(s).  <     c. Invoke the appropriate system service(s) to enter the?        file into the WASTEBASKET directory. Insert some "magic"o>        to prevent duplicate filespec.'s, such as using the FID?        as the filename with an extension of ".WB". For example,a8        LOGIN.COM might get entered in the Wastebasket as=        553_324_0.WB. The actual NAME field in the file headerd>        remains unchanged. Remove the file's original directory
        entry.n  ?     d. Subtract the ALQ of the file from the user's disk quota h
        usage.d  
  2. WB.EXE  B     A program to "empty the wastebasket", list the contents of the&     wastebasket and perform UNDELETEs:  D     a. For WASTEBASKET/EMPTY, perform the equivalent of a "DELTREE" ?        operation, but preserve the existing ddcu:[WASTEBASKET] dD        directory. (Too bad DFU is not OpenSource because it already F        does a good chunk of this.) If P1 is supplied, remove from the D        WASTEBASKET only those files matching the specified filespec G        (default = SYS$DISK:[]*.*;*) The program should support $TRNLNM mH        for the value(s) listed so that a search-list logical name could H        be specified (example: ALL_DISKS, translates to a search-list of G        the names of all the disks (RVN-1s) mounted to the system). The p<        default value would be the device currently indicated        by SYS$DISK.a  :     b. For UNDELETE, support a filespec in P1 and a target;        /DIRECTORY qualifier. The original name is restored.e  ;        If the qualifier is not present on the command line,y>        the target directory is that indicated by the directory;        backlink FID in the file header. If the directory no-8        longer exists, the file is moved to the [SYSLOST]         directory for the volume.  =        For each file UNDELETEd, add the ALQ of the file back  >        to the user's disk quota usage. Refuse the UNDELETE if 9        doing it would put the user over quota. Judicious i?        emptying of the wastebasket by the system administrator  >        will help prevent the users from using the wastebasket >        as an exploit to defeat their disk quota assignment. A >        nightly batch that runs after BACKUP would probably do         nicely.  <     c. For WASTEBASKET/LIST, read the WASTEBASKET directory,?        get the NAME from each file header and attempt to locate0A        the directory indicated by the file's directory back link.m?        Sort the list alphabetically by filename and display thelC        filename, the FID and the original directory (or "(missing)"mC        if the directory has been deleted). If P1 is specified, listVD        those files matching P1. The program should probably support E        $TRNLNM for the value(s) listed so that a search-list logical ID        name could be specified (example: ALL_DISKS, translates to a E        search-list of the names of all the disks (RVN-1s) mounted to sD        the system).If P1 is not specified, the default value should $        probably be SYS$DISK:[]*.*;*.  G The program from item 1 above could replace the existing DELETE programwH in SYS$SYSTEM using the existing DELETE command definition. One possible strategy for this might be:r  1 $ DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXEC DELETE ddcu:<dir>RECYCLE.EXEi  @ ..., or perhaps simply RENAME the VMS-supplied DELETE program to9 VMSDELETE or something similar and install RECYCLE.EXE int" SYS$COMMON:[SYSEXE] as DELETE.EXE.  G The program from item 2 above could be added to the command tables like  so:d   WASTEBASKET.CLD;1:   define verb wastebasketh    image WBa!    parameter P1, prompt="File(s)"a&       value (list,impcat,type=$infile)    qualifier EMPTY,s    qualifier LIST, default    disallow (empty and list)    disallow (empty and not P1)   define verb undelete    image WBr!    parameter P1, prompt="File(s)"-/       value (required,list,impcat,type=$infile)-    qualifier DIRECTORY$       value (required,type=$outfile)  B SYS$SYSTEM:WB.EXE may need to be installed with READALL privilege.  @ A companion to this would be a modification to the INIT program G ($INITIALIZE service?) to create a WASTEBASKET directory on each volume3F INITIALIZEd. The WASTEBASKET directory would probably need to be WORLD@ WRITE-able (Prot=(RWE,RWE,WE,WE)). For security, the wastebasketG directory could be assigned a fixed FID, have no directory entry in the.F MFD and VERIFY could be made aware that this is a normal condition and( not report it (ANALYZE/DISK/[NO]REPAIR).  1 Among the known limitations in the above design: =  B o files whose original directory has been deleted cannot easily beB WASTEBASKET/LISTed or UNDELETEd without using wildcarded selection specifications.t  F o depending on file protections, users may be able to WASTEBASKET/LIST0 files which they lack the privilege to UNDELETE.  D Again, this is one suggestion. Doubtless, there are other ways to do9 this, and no guarantees that the above might work at all.e   -- e David J. Dachteras dba DJE Systems- http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/7  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 18:50:00 +010030 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist* Message-ID: <39CB9BC8.D7A7F5FF@uk.sun.com>   Jordan Henderson wrote:n > , > In article <39CB3783.3DC8F15F@uk.sun.com>,4 > andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: > >David A Froble wrote: > >> > >> andrew harrison wrote:  > >> > > >> > hg/jb wrote:o > >> > > > >> > > andrew harrison wrote:S) > >> > > snipped stuff to save bandwidth: 
 > >> > > >H > >> > > > Of course you did not call the FUDsters lying idiots I wonderA > >> > > > why, perhaps a trawl through deja would be interestinglA > >> > > > were you involved in the threads ? Remember anyone who @ > >> > > > suggested that the outage was caused by Sun SW/HW hasC > >> > > > in your terms been shown to be a lying idiot, your words 1 > >> > > > not mine and not words I would choose.a
 > >> > > > > >> > > > Andrew Harrison" > >> > > > Enterprise IT Architect > >> > > Andrew,E > >> > > You have made me wish that Carl Lydick was back to deal withtF > >> > > you properly.  Carl is not here, I am not able to emulate himB > >> > > in the style he deserves, so I will have to do it my way.F > >> > > Andrew - I am aghast at you, the king of FUDster spin postingE > >> > > those words.  You persist in your approach to spin the truthSD > >> > > into an orwellian morass yet you give us a prime example ofG > >> > > why some mothers should eat their young AND reason to finalizet > >> > > retroactive abortion. > >> > > v/r > >> > > justbob > >> >8 > >> > So what do you think caused the 22 outage at eBay6 > >> > which was the basis of the origional attempt to > >> > FUD Sun.  > >> >5 > >> > Come on, you are happy to accuse me of spin so 4 > >> > lets have what you think are the actual facts > >> > behind eBays outage.p > >> >1 > >> > Remember the alegations made on this groupk% > >> > included in no specific order:c > >> >6 > >> > Data corruption caused by unspecified Sun HW/SW > >> > E10K hardware failure! > >> > Unspecified solaris issuest > >> >6 > >> > At the time I refuted all of these claims, none5 > >> > of which were true and you are now accusing meo > >> > of spin.t > >> >$ > >> > So come on what was it ?????? > >> > > >> > Regards > >> > Andrew Harrison > >> > Enterprise IT Architect > >>Q > >> Trying to put a bit of constraint on things.  Really people, there should beaP > >> some limits on 'Andrew kicking'.  After all, he's just doing his job, rightN > >> Andrew? :-)  None of the rest of us would like it if people started goingU > >> further than a bit of subtle suggestion when beating us up about our job.  Let's:9 > >> try to avoid some of the rather explicit stuff, huh?  > >> > >:6 > >Thanks but don't worry, I take the view that people7 > >who start the personal abuse flame war do so because.6 > >they know conciously of unconciously that they have7 > >lost the argument or that it is not going as well asu > >they hoped. > >a > 4 > Oh, don't go taking this pose as the injured party4 > in this "abusive" discussion here.  A quick search5 > through deja will show you calling your adversariese > all sorts of names.  > 5 > I've found the people who are most offended by namef2 > calling are those who know that the names apply. > Otherwise, it can be ignored.n > 
 > >regards > >Andrew Harrison > >Enterprise IT Architect >  > -Jordan Hendersoni > jordan@greenapple.comi Jordan  % Have I called you a lying idiot yet. l2 I have questioned you ability to comprehend rather3 basic facts but this was some time after your firstd$ posting acusing me of being a liar.   0 Incedentally have you checked with Rob, seems he/ does not agee with you, it was according to himi1 a patch issue that caused the eBay 22 hour outageu2 and the HW/SW alegations were just his injudicious3 cutting and pasting from various cnet etc articles.d   Regards  Andrew Harrisont Enterprise IT Architecte   ------------------------------    Date: 22 Sep 2000 15:21:47 -0400/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)u* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist* Message-ID: <8qgbgb$36u$1@lisa.gemair.com>  * In article <39CB9BC8.D7A7F5FF@uk.sun.com>,2 andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: >Jordan Henderson wrote: >>  - >> In article <39CB3783.3DC8F15F@uk.sun.com>,z5 >> andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:r >> >David A Froble wrote:0 >> >>m >> >> andrew harrison wrote: >> >> >  >> >> > hg/jb wrote:	 >> >> > >a  >> >> > > andrew harrison wrote:* >> >> > > snipped stuff to save bandwidth: >> >> > > >tI >> >> > > > Of course you did not call the FUDsters lying idiots I wondertB >> >> > > > why, perhaps a trawl through deja would be interestingB >> >> > > > were you involved in the threads ? Remember anyone whoA >> >> > > > suggested that the outage was caused by Sun SW/HW hasdD >> >> > > > in your terms been shown to be a lying idiot, your words2 >> >> > > > not mine and not words I would choose. >> >> > > >s >> >> > > > Andrew Harrison # >> >> > > > Enterprise IT Architecte >> >> > > Andrew,uF >> >> > > You have made me wish that Carl Lydick was back to deal withG >> >> > > you properly.  Carl is not here, I am not able to emulate him.C >> >> > > in the style he deserves, so I will have to do it my way.lG >> >> > > Andrew - I am aghast at you, the king of FUDster spin postingpF >> >> > > those words.  You persist in your approach to spin the truthE >> >> > > into an orwellian morass yet you give us a prime example oftH >> >> > > why some mothers should eat their young AND reason to finalize >> >> > > retroactive abortion. 
 >> >> > > v/rn >> >> > > justbobe >> >> >.9 >> >> > So what do you think caused the 22 outage at eBay07 >> >> > which was the basis of the origional attempt to. >> >> > FUD Sun. >> >> >V6 >> >> > Come on, you are happy to accuse me of spin so5 >> >> > lets have what you think are the actual factsp >> >> > behind eBays outage. >> >> >w2 >> >> > Remember the alegations made on this group& >> >> > included in no specific order: >> >> >o7 >> >> > Data corruption caused by unspecified Sun HW/SW  >> >> > E10K hardware failuret" >> >> > Unspecified solaris issues >> >> >l7 >> >> > At the time I refuted all of these claims, noned6 >> >> > of which were true and you are now accusing me >> >> > of spin. >> >> >i% >> >> > So come on what was it ??????f >> >> >t >> >> > Regardse >> >> > Andrew Harrisonh >> >> > Enterprise IT Architecte >> >>eR >> >> Trying to put a bit of constraint on things.  Really people, there should beQ >> >> some limits on 'Andrew kicking'.  After all, he's just doing his job, right O >> >> Andrew? :-)  None of the rest of us would like it if people started goingrV >> >> further than a bit of subtle suggestion when beating us up about our job.  Let's: >> >> try to avoid some of the rather explicit stuff, huh? >> >>e >> >7 >> >Thanks but don't worry, I take the view that peoplen8 >> >who start the personal abuse flame war do so because7 >> >they know conciously of unconciously that they have:8 >> >lost the argument or that it is not going as well as >> >they hoped.S >> > >> S5 >> Oh, don't go taking this pose as the injured partyn5 >> in this "abusive" discussion here.  A quick searche6 >> through deja will show you calling your adversaries >> all sorts of names. >> m6 >> I've found the people who are most offended by name3 >> calling are those who know that the names apply.   >> Otherwise, it can be ignored. >> e >> >regardsm >> >Andrew Harrisony >> >Enterprise IT Architecte >> l >> -Jordan Henderson >> jordan@greenapple.com >Jordan  >e& >Have I called you a lying idiot yet. 3 >I have questioned you ability to comprehend rather-4 >basic facts but this was some time after your first% >posting acusing me of being a liar. j >:  2 I called you a liar based on your clear statements1 that are in varience with the facts.  Issues that - I've continued to bring up and you've dodged.   5 I called you an "Idiot Architect Andrew" as a parody f. of your signature and in contradistinction to - Sun Exec VP Shoemaker, who makes a number of s0 statements which contradict your own statements.. I believe I said "who are we to believe, Idiot/ Architect Andrew or Exec VP Shoemaker."  Add tod- the list of your other failings the fact thatn you can't take a joke.  1 >Incedentally have you checked with Rob, seems hea0 >does not agee with you, it was according to him2 >a patch issue that caused the eBay 22 hour outage3 >and the HW/SW alegations were just his injudiciousn4 >cutting and pasting from various cnet etc articles. >n  3 I've never said categorically that Sun HW/SW was atr7 the base of the many eBay failures.  I believe at leasti7 some of the eBay outages are due to Sun HW/SW, althoughw2 I can't penetrate the cone of silence that Sun has3 erected around this.  I _have_ brought up a number d= of questions surrounding those failures and Sun's subsequent e, handling of same that aren't being answered.  9 Somehow, whenever I ask these embarrasing questions, the  9 subject always gets changed to some irrelevancy like whato( Rob or Kerry may or may not have said...    	 >Regards h >Andrew Harrison >Enterprise IT Architect     -Jordan Henderson- jordan@greenapple.com    ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 19:56:35 GMTS* From: "Nikita V. Belenki" <kit@nospam.net>* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist* Message-ID: <TPOy5.670$Cn1.30355@sjc-read>  = "andrew harrison" <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote in messageT# news:39C8CFF9.56AA5CC@uk.sun.com...-  # > > I quote said Exec VP Shoemaker:,H > >   According to Shoemaker, Sun hasn't been able to narrow the problemH > >   to any one specific cause. Sun believes the problems may have beenH > >   caused by a combination of factors, including defective componentsH > >   from one of Sun's suppliers, poor packaging of the memory chips on3 > >   the system boards, and environmental factors.t: > Well done yet again you repeat the article, and I repeat > the actual problem.e: > We use a standard SRAM part in the ecache of the UltraII< > CPU's this SRAM has been supplied by two different vendors% > who I am not at liberty to discuss.e= > We have found that the bits flip on the SRAM, but that theyLA > don't flip by themselves, they flip because of external factorsd9 > of which static is one of the most obvious culprits. We A > know that reducing the incidence of static by proper datacenter E > management reduces the incidence dramatically of the bits flipping.hF > We also know that changing the origional SRAM to a new and identicalC > speced part from a different vendor also dramatically reduces thev! > incidence of the bits flipping.   K How much is "dramatically"? Does the *problem* persist after these changes?   H And do you know of any other hardware supplier that has the same problem with the same SRAM parts?r  = > We cannot rule out other factors that may cause the bits toE> > flip because there are other factors appart from static that@ > could cause this. However we know that reducing static reduces; > the bits flipping because customers who have followed thet? > advice of our datacenter assessment team have found that theya. > are getting very much reduced failure rates.   [...]d  < > No I han't said that, Sun sources the SRAM and I have in a> > posting to this group said that the SRAM issue is ultimately6 > Sun's problem, but that does not alter the fact that > it is a component issue.  F Actually in your letters I could not find any evidence to support yourF claim. So far it seems to be a problem of a bad system design, and itsF proposed "solutions" are some shamanic acts that are somehow trying to9 change the system or the environment to hide the problem.d   Kit. kit # kits.net   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 20:50:00 GMTg% From: hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net>l* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist0 Message-ID: <39CBC647.22AF39BB@bellatlantic.net>   andrew harrison wrote: >  > David A Froble wrote:f > >e > > andrew harrison wrote: > > >s > > > hg/jb wrote: > > > >m > > > > andrew harrison wrote:( > > > > snipped stuff to save bandwidth:	 > > > > >dG > > > > > Of course you did not call the FUDsters lying idiots I wonderD@ > > > > > why, perhaps a trawl through deja would be interesting@ > > > > > were you involved in the threads ? Remember anyone who? > > > > > suggested that the outage was caused by Sun SW/HW hasrB > > > > > in your terms been shown to be a lying idiot, your words0 > > > > > not mine and not words I would choose.	 > > > > >e > > > > > Andrew Harrison ! > > > > > Enterprise IT Architect  > > > > Andrew,iD > > > > You have made me wish that Carl Lydick was back to deal withE > > > > you properly.  Carl is not here, I am not able to emulate himsA > > > > in the style he deserves, so I will have to do it my way.hE > > > > Andrew - I am aghast at you, the king of FUDster spin posting D > > > > those words.  You persist in your approach to spin the truthC > > > > into an orwellian morass yet you give us a prime example ofyF > > > > why some mothers should eat their young AND reason to finalize > > > > retroactive abortion.M > > > > v/ri > > > > justbobe > > >l7 > > > So what do you think caused the 22 outage at eBayc5 > > > which was the basis of the origional attempt toy > > > FUD Sun. > > >h4 > > > Come on, you are happy to accuse me of spin so3 > > > lets have what you think are the actual factsd > > > behind eBays outage. > > > 0 > > > Remember the alegations made on this group$ > > > included in no specific order: > > >l5 > > > Data corruption caused by unspecified Sun HW/SWm > > > E10K hardware failure:  > > > Unspecified solaris issues > > >c5 > > > At the time I refuted all of these claims, noneo4 > > > of which were true and you are now accusing me > > > of spin. > > > # > > > So come on what was it ??????h > > >a
 > > > Regardsb > > > Andrew Harrisonx > > > Enterprise IT ArchitectS > > P > > Trying to put a bit of constraint on things.  Really people, there should beO > > some limits on 'Andrew kicking'.  After all, he's just doing his job, rightiM > > Andrew? :-)  None of the rest of us would like it if people started goingaT > > further than a bit of subtle suggestion when beating us up about our job.  Let's8 > > try to avoid some of the rather explicit stuff, huh? > >A > 5 > Thanks but don't worry, I take the view that people 6 > who start the personal abuse flame war do so because5 > they know conciously of unconciously that they haveL6 > lost the argument or that it is not going as well as
 > they hoped.P > 	 > regardsr > Andrew Harrisone > Enterprise IT Architectp Andrew,)5 I have read all of the posts, for quite sometime now. 7 I looked at the publicly available data on the outages.); I looked at the publicly available statements by Sun on ther	 problems.  I posted this:	 Subject: e-             Re: Sun Hardware problems persistI         Date: )             Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:14:07 GMTm
        From: .+             hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net>d  Organization: T             The Keltic LeagueF   Newsgroups:              comp.os.vmso    References:  7             1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10 , 11Y         Rob Young wrote: > _ > In article <39C5EFE1.E8781127@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:n > > Rob Young wrote:t > >> In article <39C0FC8F.72DD9A88@uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes: > >> > Rob Young wrote:pw > >> >> In article <39BCB3DD.F5B832EB@uk.sun.com>, Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:l > >> >> > Rob Young wrote: SNIPPED a bunch of stuff...e >         van Aman says: > M > http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-2752389.html?tag=st.ne.1002.srchres.niD > R > "Sometimes the problem was ameliorated by lowering the temperature of the serverL > environment, but the problem still happened more often than specifications > should have permitted."  > F This is the line that caught my attention.  I had this nagging itch in the back of my memory cells.E To me this smells like a race condition in some critical timing area.oB I could be wrong, but my experience with hardware design revealed C that if you cooled things down a bit, slow chip problems went away.d  > This is exactly the thing that overclockers are doing today - # cool the chips and run them faster.u   Just a thought.n bobn  Which you have not responded to.8 In the past when individuals have demonstrated attitudes; such as yours in response to queries about what has really d5 happened, they have been held accountable.  You have >1 been called to account many times.  You have beeni7 very adroit at deflecting the real questions.  You have & been a master at changing the subject.8 A suitable response to repeated queries can have a vast 8 range.  You have, in my opinion, never selected a single% response within the acceptable range. = So, if Carl Lydick were alive, you would be roasted verbally.s bob>   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 20:51:36 GMT>% From: hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net>e* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist0 Message-ID: <39CBC6A8.1AD31DC6@bellatlantic.net>   andrew harrison wrote: >  > David A Froble wrote:  > >t > > andrew harrison wrote: > > >.
 > > > Rubbishe< > > > Intel initially denied there was an issue and tried to? > > > rubbish the claims about FP errors. It was only when theyh< > > > were forced to concede in public that the FP issue did; > > > exist that they started the processor recall process.> > >tQ > > You bet!  Intel tried to downplay the problem.  And then when forced into the S > > recall, they were very explicit about return of the faulty chip.  One could say>T > > that they wanted to get the defective parts out of use.  But from their originalT > > response, one would probably be more accurate to say that they figured the chipsO > > were still usable, and didn't want customers to get a free extra CPU out ofoR > > them.  I do remember that they felt very put-upon when forced to fix a problem! > > that they themselves created.  > >>P > > Also, the recent problem with the Intel 1.13 GHz chip was at first denied byS > > Intel.  Only when independantly verified, and witnessed by one of their people,>O > > would they begin to even look at the problem, and I seem to recall that thet: > > withdrawal of the chip still took an additional month. > >>B > There was also the illegal instruction sequence which caused theE > processor to hang, this was executable from user space and resultedbG > in systems hanging when people used it as a denial of service attack.i > F > This was fixed by all the OS vendors with Intel based OS's releasingI > patches that stopped the particular attack. There was no general recall 0 > if Intel CPU's although it was a hardware bug. > 	 > Regardsu > Andrew Harrison  > Enterprise IT Architecth$ Another example, as I cited earlier.; You are quite adroit at addressing other folks issues, with 7 accurate data too, but this was not the original topic.  bobe   ------------------------------  # Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:00:06 GMT % From: hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net>e* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist0 Message-ID: <39CBC8A5.610FEB4D@bellatlantic.net>   "Nikita V. Belenki" wrote: > ? > "andrew harrison" <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote in messaget% > news:39C8CFF9.56AA5CC@uk.sun.com...l > % > > > I quote said Exec VP Shoemaker: J > > >   According to Shoemaker, Sun hasn't been able to narrow the problemJ > > >   to any one specific cause. Sun believes the problems may have beenJ > > >   caused by a combination of factors, including defective componentsJ > > >   from one of Sun's suppliers, poor packaging of the memory chips on5 > > >   the system boards, and environmental factors.s< > > Well done yet again you repeat the article, and I repeat > > the actual problem.a< > > We use a standard SRAM part in the ecache of the UltraII> > > CPU's this SRAM has been supplied by two different vendors' > > who I am not at liberty to discuss.m? > > We have found that the bits flip on the SRAM, but that theypC > > don't flip by themselves, they flip because of external factors2; > > of which static is one of the most obvious culprits. WeeC > > know that reducing the incidence of static by proper datacentergG > > management reduces the incidence dramatically of the bits flipping.nH > > We also know that changing the origional SRAM to a new and identicalE > > speced part from a different vendor also dramatically reduces thes# > > incidence of the bits flipping.r > M > How much is "dramatically"? Does the *problem* persist after these changes?  > J > And do you know of any other hardware supplier that has the same problem > with the same SRAM parts?> > ? > > We cannot rule out other factors that may cause the bits tod@ > > flip because there are other factors appart from static thatB > > could cause this. However we know that reducing static reduces= > > the bits flipping because customers who have followed thesA > > advice of our datacenter assessment team have found that theyl0 > > are getting very much reduced failure rates. >  > [...]u > > > > No I han't said that, Sun sources the SRAM and I have in a@ > > posting to this group said that the SRAM issue is ultimately8 > > Sun's problem, but that does not alter the fact that > > it is a component issue. > H > Actually in your letters I could not find any evidence to support yourH > claim. So far it seems to be a problem of a bad system design, and itsH > proposed "solutions" are some shamanic acts that are somehow trying to; > change the system or the environment to hide the problem.s >  > Kit. > kit # kits.net8 I know of - personally - a number of E10K installations.? One such machine, which has very very little human interaction, ; has been rock solid since installation.  One other E10K hastF exhibited some strange behavior.  Four more E10Ks have had occaisional: problems that have not been isolated.  That is not a large8 sample base from a population in excess of 3000 systems.  @ In the past, DEC had flakey designs at times.  This does happen.= Just like the Intel problem, just like similar problems that o7 other vendors have experienced.  The issue still is how>2 is this problem handled - does someone try to spin< the data into a web of obfuscation and throws out extraneous9 bits or does someone with integrity come out and say Hey e9 we are working on it,  We have some ideas but we are not a sure yet, we will get it fixed.>6 Back to the Intel experience.  Seems the latest Glitch7 that Tom's Hardware demonstrated was handled completelyp  differently than the FP problem. bobg     0 In the future, race conditions might happen too.   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:58:07 -0400t* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist- Message-ID: <39CBB9CF.D165BDAF@tsoft-inc.com>u   andrew harrison wrote: >  > David A Froble wrote:sP > > Trying to put a bit of constraint on things.  Really people, there should beO > > some limits on 'Andrew kicking'.  After all, he's just doing his job, rightuM > > Andrew? :-)  None of the rest of us would like it if people started goinghT > > further than a bit of subtle suggestion when beating us up about our job.  Let's8 > > try to avoid some of the rather explicit stuff, huh? > >  > 5 > Thanks but don't worry, I take the view that peoplet6 > who start the personal abuse flame war do so because5 > they know conciously of unconciously that they havea6 > lost the argument or that it is not going as well as
 > they hoped.a  P So, I can assume, since you do not deny it, that spreading FUD on comp.os.vms IS	 your job?i   -- r4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------   Date: 22 SEP 2000 19:46:29 GMT6 From: greenwoodde@feda34.fed.ornl.gov (Dave Greenwood)  Subject: Re: SYSTEM-F-EXBUFOBJLM2 Message-ID: <22SEP00.19462913@feda34.fed.ornl.gov>  - "Kevin R. DeYoung" <deyoung@ipact.com> wrote:uI > We are having a couple of DECwindows related problems since our upgradeaJ > to VMS 7.2.  The first probem being that the console device is no longerF > able to create a DECterm window following login.  The second problemG > being that I don't seem to be able to create any decterm window usingaF > Excursions either.  If I manually set up a display device using $set= > display/create/transport=tcpip/node=mynode, followed by a $ 5 > create/term=decterm, I receive the following error:n >  eD > %SYSTEM-F-EXBUFOBJLM, exceeded systemwide buffer object page limit
 > (MAXBOBMEM)' >  vD > Since the sysgen variables controlling the buffer object space areH > dynamic I have tried doubling the values, with no success.  Any ideas?  I Are you sure you changed both the active (to take effect now) and current F (to survive reboots) copies of the parameters?  Don't forget to update MODPARAMS.DAT also.'  G I had similar problems after updating to VMS 7.2-1 and DECwindows MotifeG 1.2-5 which were resolved by doubling MAXBOBMEM.  There's an article oneG DSNlink that says both MAXBOBMEM and MAXBOBS0S1 should be 3 * MAXBOBS2..D IIRC, you need an even (much) larger value if you're running certain$ 3rd party software (Oracle I think).   Dave --------------9 Dave Greenwood                Email: Greenwoodde@ORNL.GOVNH Oak Ridge National Lab        %STD-W-DISCLAIMER, I only speak for myself   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 16:02:54 -0400e* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>! Subject: Re: Telnet configuration - Message-ID: <39CBBAEE.54B8336C@tsoft-inc.com>o   Carl Perkins wrote:  > 8 > rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes...\ > }In article <39C9ACC6.EA7105DB@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:Q > }> Ok, I'm ready to learn something I don't currently know.  This is the secondfS > }> reference to SYLOGIN that I've seen in this thread.  SYLOGIN is something thatnU > }> happens at the end of logging in.  SYS$ANNOUNCE happens before logging in.  It'sa> > }> normally set at system start-up.  What am I missing here? > }e, > }You are missing lack-of-sleep.  I wasn't! > }t> > }You are right.  SYS$ANNOUNCE happens early, before SYLOGIN. > }RI > }What I was trying to say is that this fellow typically gets defined inaN > }SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM, by the system manager.  Then its effect happens at loginN > }time.  Since the system manager does it, I don't think its a security hole. > }i^ > }Sylogin, systartup, they both start with sy... :-)  Carl's ghost isn't happy with me today. > }--a > }Robert Deiningerd > K > I would expect it to get defined in SYLOGICALS.COM not SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM.bG > SYLOGICALS is the logical place to put all your logical definitions -a > that's what its there for. > P > But a lot of system managers do seem to put *everything* in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM. > 
 > --- Carl   No, that's not always true.t  J What I do tend to do is leave the standard command files provided with VMSP alone, and create site specific command files to do the various start-up tasks IH require.  I also keep SYSTARTUP_VMS rather short and perform much of theP start-up tasks in a batch job launched by SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM.  Keeps upgrades andB working on multiple customer's VMS systems a bit easier to manage.   Dave   -- v4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:46:48 -0500r7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>w! Subject: Re: Telnet configuratione- Message-ID: <39CC1998.731121D5@earthlink.net>    Carl Perkins wrote:- > 8 > rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes...\ > }In article <39C9ACC6.EA7105DB@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:Q > }> Ok, I'm ready to learn something I don't currently know.  This is the secondbS > }> reference to SYLOGIN that I've seen in this thread.  SYLOGIN is something that U > }> happens at the end of logging in.  SYS$ANNOUNCE happens before logging in.  It's > > }> normally set at system start-up.  What am I missing here? > } , > }You are missing lack-of-sleep.  I wasn't! > }e> > }You are right.  SYS$ANNOUNCE happens early, before SYLOGIN. > }nI > }What I was trying to say is that this fellow typically gets defined in N > }SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM, by the system manager.  Then its effect happens at loginN > }time.  Since the system manager does it, I don't think its a security hole. > } ^ > }Sylogin, systartup, they both start with sy... :-)  Carl's ghost isn't happy with me today. > }--o > }Robert Deiningero > K > I would expect it to get defined in SYLOGICALS.COM not SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM.eG > SYLOGICALS is the logical place to put all your logical definitions -a > that's what its there for. > P > But a lot of system managers do seem to put *everything* in SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM.  B It's important to remember that even in a MINimal startup, SY*.COM= proc.'s *WILL* get executed, with the noteworthy exception ofi= SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM (or SYSTARTUP_V5.COM on the older systems).u  G Some sites even allow for a "minimum" startup by putting a timed prompt ? in SYSTARTUP_V*.COM to allow for a full VMS startup without anyuF site-specific startups executing other than those in the other SY*.COM proc.'s, like so:t   $ OPEN CMD OPA0: $ VBL :=! $ READ CMD VBL/ERR=CONT/END=CONT- 1 /TIME=180/PROMPT=" Do a full startup? (Y/N) [Y] "  $CONT: $ CLOSE CMDi $ IF VBL .EQS. "" THEN VBL := Yr $ IF .NOT. VBL THEN EXIT   --   David J. Dachterah dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/r  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:12:43 +0100 - From: John Wisniewski <wisniewski@ticnet.com> Q Subject: Top "F" Reasons OpenVMS isn't going to Die  (WAS:Re: [VMS] VAX is dying) O Message-ID: <A0683601C1240642.61BAE367A70014BA.4B70B155E51AB51A@lp.airnews.net>l  * TOP "F" REASONS OPENVMS ISN'T GOING TO DIE (Y2K LATE EDITION VERSION)  3 F)Hey, Free Hobbyist Licenses available on the NET!oF      Just like those  guys who don't  make any money off their OSes...  J E)If OpenVMS was a separate company it would be in the fortune list at 384  A D)Xwindows, SAMBA, Apache, Java, COM and all that Open Systems SWr-      On a platform that's always available...   H C)DIICOE -- Not just for Unix systems anymore -- Compaq signed a 15 yearH      agreement with the US Government for continuing OpenVMS support andK      infusion with Open System and Open Source APIs and unlike POSIX, there 2      real applications written to these standards!  L B)Shared Everything Clusters with live, redundant datacenters over 540 miles&       apart... (No Hot Standby here;-)  3 A)3.9 Billion in OpenVMS Sales World Wide last year 6      -- One of Compaq's most profitable business units  F  9)One Word: Wildfire, eh, GS series, eh, Alpha, eh Galaxy, Eh OpenVMS    8)Wanna buy a lottery ticket?  %  7)200 Million spent on R&D last yearl0       -- Anyone want to work in VMS engineering?9          We got openings and I get a  bonus to recruit:-)>  0   6)Healthcare, and Finance, and Telecom! Oh MY!  K   5)Used VAXen and Alphas are going on E-bay for more than you can get them       through brokers!   P   4)Kevin Mitnick just testified before congress he hasn't been able to get intoK       VMS since version 4 when he stole version 5 with a 1200 baud modem...S  B   3)You want to be able to CHARGE people for their cellphone time?  >   2)VAX can't die until after I beat the Balrog in Moria 4.81.  O   1)VMS is Windows 2000 ready even if no-one  has deployed the new Windows 2000m      security domains yet!   Peter,  R OpenVMS is doing quite well from a business standpoint and we are executing on the  P plan to keep it vital and a part of our growing industry for many years to come.  L The VAXen are retiring, that's true but we've been shipping Alpha processorsL running OpenVMS for well over 8 years now and the price/performance of theseC new boxes are very compelling compared to the fabled VAXen of yore.o  R I must say that as a collector and restorer of old VAX equipment it gives me greatQ pleasure to  think that because they've finally stopped making new VAXen, I mightl one day be ableeQ to have one of each kind in my living room, clustered togeather, humming with thelO buzz of three phase power and clean air blown through a raised floor across thesA halon tanks and... Oh, sorry I was having THAT day-dream again...n  M Things are not as bad as they might seem and we are progressing (read: moving  forward)R as a part of Compaq.  I can only give you my impressions from the inside AD (After DEC)K and tell you that while some Compaq folks may still seem a bit "Focused" onc= various markets, Compaq on the whole wants OpenVMS to succeed3  8 -- And that's why I continue to toil in this vineyard...  N Look for many new announcements around Alpha, VMS and other Compaq products atM CETS2000 the first week of October in LA.  And be sure to look for OpenVMS toi? continue to be sold and promoted world-wide in the years ahead.c  H Buck up, I've only been able to start collecting Alphas (for my personalP collection) in the past few months and in a few years I can send my kids off  toO college and then convert their rooms into Alpha machine rooms clustered with myn) older VAXen at 7.3+ in the living room...h  ( -- well, a man has to have his dreams...   Don't lose heart,h   John Robert Wisniewski OpenVMS Ambassador North Texas( In the service of OpenVMS engineering...       Peter LANGSTOEGER wrote:   > <RANT>K > I just met a colleague at the coffee machine telling me that "COMPAQ just N > abandoned VMS". He told me, that he read this in a local computer newspaper.M > As he doesn't know which one and didn't keep this paper, it seems the papernJ > or my colleague got from the story about end of the VAX hardware in 2000E > the impression that VMS is (finally) dead (after some years dying).  >e9 > How often did you see such a person in the last years ?o8 > How many of such misinformed people are still around ?/ > How many of them are in executive positions ?o@ > Why do you think, Q has stopped/reverted the damaging of VMS ?; > VMS sales increasing ? I know it, because I read it here.tG >   But who else know it (from ISV, ads, analysts, Q stock rate, ...) ?r >a > Sigh.a >e	 > </RANT>p > --> > Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651= > Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888r> > <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netJ > A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"P > "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:36:14 -0400l' From: "Bill Todd" <billtodd@foo.mv.com> U Subject: Re: Top "F" Reasons OpenVMS isn't going to Die  (WAS:Re: [VMS] VAX is dying)i( Message-ID: <8qh4n1$avq$1@pyrite.mv.net>  8 John Wisniewski <wisniewski@ticnet.com> wrote in messageI news:A0683601C1240642.61BAE367A70014BA.4B70B155E51AB51A@lp.airnews.net...d   ...S  ' >  7)200 Million spent on R&D last yeare2 >       -- Anyone want to work in VMS engineering?; >          We got openings and I get a  bonus to recruit:-)t  L Since there are only around 100 engineers working on VMS R&D, at the rate ofK pay that implies I'm surprised you have any openings.  I'm more inclined tovF suspect that the $200M is the budget for *all* VMS-related activity atK Compaq - and if so, it's hardly an impressive figure, given the revenue VMSe	 produces.e   - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:05:05 +0100m- From: John Wisniewski <wisniewski@ticnet.com> U Subject: Re: Top "F" Reasons OpenVMS isn't going to Die  (WAS:Re: [VMS] VAX is dying) O Message-ID: <F160B3CB16BF09B8.07C4067DFDF2AD05.6B393C54425CF47A@lp.airnews.net>r  # There's always one in the group....c  K Yes it's 200 million for the entire organization not just R&D and yes we doa
 still have1 openings in OpenVMS engineering for developers...g  K 200 Million in expenses on 4 billion in sales is a pretty good ratio from anO business standpoint in the business we're in for the quality of product we turno out...   All my best,   John Wisniewski.         Bill Todd wrote:  : > John Wisniewski <wisniewski@ticnet.com> wrote in messageK > news:A0683601C1240642.61BAE367A70014BA.4B70B155E51AB51A@lp.airnews.net...o >o > ...c >s) > >  7)200 Million spent on R&D last yearu4 > >       -- Anyone want to work in VMS engineering?= > >          We got openings and I get a  bonus to recruit:-)s > N > Since there are only around 100 engineers working on VMS R&D, at the rate ofM > pay that implies I'm surprised you have any openings.  I'm more inclined touH > suspect that the $200M is the budget for *all* VMS-related activity atM > Compaq - and if so, it's hardly an impressive figure, given the revenue VMSi > produces.  >  > - bill   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 20:57:41 -0500 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>eT Subject: Re: Top "F" Reasons OpenVMS isn't going to Die  (WAS:Re: [VMS] VAX isdying)- Message-ID: <39CC0E15.1B273AD6@earthlink.net>a  	 Hi, John,s  G We're not having much luck with this. With your contacts, maybe you canm help us:  D We're trying to convince the powers-that-be to get off the pot about advertising OpenVMS.  F How do we convince "them" to stop "preaching to the choir" and instead "put the word in the streets"?   -- t David J. Dachterar dba DJE Systemso http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/l  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:13:58 +0100s- From: John Wisniewski <wisniewski@ticnet.com>aT Subject: Re: Top "F" Reasons OpenVMS isn't going to Die  (WAS:Re: [VMS] VAX isdying)O Message-ID: <FD6D245B7DC1C648.B6180D9F5CCBBE33.348750F6753AF9E1@lp.airnews.net>t   David,  K Advertizing has been at the top of my request list for almost 10 years... Io
 encourage youe1 to keep asking, you never know what you'll get;-)-  F The print ads and joint ads (with folks like Northern Light) have been increasing since the first of the year.  I Working with many of VMS's ISV's to put the word on the street is helpingi and manyF of those ISVs are begining to tout the business advantage that OpenVMS	 brings tocH their products...  The total cost of ownership numbers are the lowest in the industry for VMS clusters...u   See you in LA!   John Wisniewski    ------------------------     David J. Dachtera wrote:   > Hi, John,u >eI > We're not having much luck with this. With your contacts, maybe you can 
 > help us: >dF > We're trying to convince the powers-that-be to get off the pot about > advertising OpenVMS. >pH > How do we convince "them" to stop "preaching to the choir" and instead  > "put the word in the streets"? >y > -- > David J. Dachtera  > dba DJE Systemso > http://www.djesys.com/ >a< > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/  >-H > This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings > is to be expected. >2B > Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression. >cH > However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are > strongly discouraged.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:32:20 +0200e0 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Easynet.fr> Subject: VMSNET.* hierarchy ?d* Message-ID: <39CBCFE3.E3E25E55@Easynet.fr>  F What is the vmsnet.* news hierarchy? A transfer from DEC to the World?0 There are more than 30 "conferences" in there...  B Thank you for updating the database of a former (modest) VMS guru.   D (aka PRSTSC::DTL)i   ------------------------------   Date: 22 Sep 2000 23:17:50 GMT2 From: hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman)! Subject: Re: VMSNET.* hierarchy ?c6 Message-ID: <8qgpau$69s$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>  ] In article <39CBCFE3.E3E25E55@Easynet.fr>, Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Easynet.fr> writes:X& :What is the vmsnet.* news hierarchy?   H   Mostly DECUS-related groups.  The V7.3 software developer's kit (SDK) I   newsgroup is over in that heirarchy, too: vmsnet.sdk.openvms.fieldtest.   " :A transfer from DEC to the World?     Nope.c  N  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------L    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.532 ************************