1 INFO-VAX	Mon, 25 Sep 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 536       Contents:# Advanced OpenVMS training in Europe * Re: BUT... (Re: Why are these files open?) Changing System Password Re: Changing System Password Re: Changing System Password> DEC 36Gb disks cheap ! DO NOT READ IF YOU WANT TO PAY TOO MUCH DECserver 90M Doc , Re: Deleting 250,000+ files from a directory& detached process can't output anything* Re: detached process can't output anything  Re: duh... max filename lenth??? Re: Duplex Printing  RE: HSJ80 in ESA12000 3 Re: Memo:  Deleting 250,000+ files from a directory 3 Re: Memo:  Deleting 250,000+ files from a directory  Re: OpenVMS features (future) ! Reading VMS files using Delphi... % Re: Reading VMS files using Delphi...  remote login using .com file4 Re: Replacing system disk, will licenses still work?4 Re: Replacing system disk, will licenses still work?4 Re: Replacing system disk, will licenses still work? Re: Suggested VMS new feature! Re: Suggested VMS new feature! Re: Suggested VMS new feature! Re: Suggested VMS new feature! Re: Suggested VMS new feature! Re: Suggested VMS new feature! Re: Suggested VMS new feature! Re: Suggested VMS new feature! Re: Suggested VMS new feature! Re: Suggested VMS new feature! Re: Suggested VMS new feature! Re: Suggested VMS new feature!M Re: Top "F" Reasons OpenVMS isn't going to Die  (WAS:Re: [VMS] VAX is  dying) L Re: Top "F" Reasons OpenVMS isn't going to Die  (WAS:Re: [VMS] VAX is dying) Re: VMS and UNIX Re: VMS and UNIX Re: VMS and UNIX  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 22:37:45 +0200 0 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Easynet.fr>, Subject: Advanced OpenVMS training in Europe* Message-ID: <39CE6618.9AB0B385@Easynet.fr>  A When we compare the US catalog and the French one (from GKN), all  advanced courses are missing:    Crash dump analysis  Clusters ALPHA internals  ALPHA programming  Update seminar System troubleshooting etc.   ? Where can these course be attended, please? (in UK probably :-)    Thanks,    D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 19:31:36 GMT 8 From: Veli =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=F6rkk=F6?= <korkko@decus.fi>3 Subject: Re: BUT... (Re: Why are these files open?) ( Message-ID: <39CCB748.51A859A1@decus.fi>   At least it used to be that   / 	$ install remove disk:[dire]mumble.exe;version   3 actually leaves a phantom channel and therefore one 3 cannot delete the file after $install remove. This  : problem may have been fixed but I usually AVOID specifying, version numbers when using INStALL commands.   _veli    "John E. Malmberg" wrote:  > 5 > "bill robertson" <wcr@pacbell.net> wrote in message ' > news:39CBA780.A517E3EB@pacbell.net... 2 > > So, how do I get rid of those INSTALL entries? > >  > > I tried INSTALL DELETE:  > > 8 > > $ install del dka200:[RLS_MTS_45.EXE]MENU_SIGNON.EXE/ > > %INSTALL-W-FAIL, failed to REMOVE entry for + > DISK$DEV1:<RLS_MTS_45.EXE>MENU_SIGNON.EXE 3 > > -INSTALL-E-NOKFEFND, Known File Entry not found  > K > Use the INSTALL utility to list out the files.  Note the exact syntax for E > the entry for MENU_SIGNON.EXE including the angle brackets that are  > surrounding the directory. > = > $install remove disk$dev1:<RLS_MTS_45.EXE>menu_signon.exe;1  > M > The device, the directory in the same angle brackets as the install utility ? > reports, and the exact version number seem to be significant.  > J > I am not sure if the version number is required, it has been a few yearsM > since I have had to fix something like this.  But you must match the device K > name and the angle brackets reported by install, or install will not find  > the file to remove it. > 9 > [Note I have not tried this with OpenVMS 7.x or higher]  >  > -John  > wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 23:44:38 -0400 1 From: "Mary Bennett" <maryleebennett@hotmail.com> ! Subject: Changing System Password / Message-ID: <sstihlruaq150b@corp.supernews.com>   , Alright, I admit it, senility is setting in.  J I have a VAX 3100/40 which I just repaired running VMS 5.5-2.  I haven't aI clue what the SYSTEM password is and can't remember how to change it from 	 the boot.   D If anyone can remember what ALL of the commands are from the >>> I'd6 appreciate it. (I don't want to blow my image at WIS).   Thanks   ------------------------------   Date: 25 Sep 2000 04:57:31 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie) % Subject: Re: Changing System Password ' Message-ID: <8qmlvr$rev$1@joe.rice.edu>   0 Mary Bennett (maryleebennett@hotmail.com) wrote:. : Alright, I admit it, senility is setting in. : L : I have a VAX 3100/40 which I just repaired running VMS 5.5-2.  I haven't aK : clue what the SYSTEM password is and can't remember how to change it from  : the boot.  : F : If anyone can remember what ALL of the commands are from the >>> I'd8 : appreciate it. (I don't want to blow my image at WIS). :  : Thanks   Read this section:  =   MGMT5.  I've forgotten the SYSTEM password - what can I do?    of the VMS FAQ, available at:       http://www.openvms.compaq.com/  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 01:07:42 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>% Subject: Re: Changing System Password - Message-ID: <39CEDD9E.154D125F@tsoft-inc.com>    Mary Bennett wrote:  > . > Alright, I admit it, senility is setting in. > L > I have a VAX 3100/40 which I just repaired running VMS 5.5-2.  I haven't aK > clue what the SYSTEM password is and can't remember how to change it from  > the boot.  > F > If anyone can remember what ALL of the commands are from the >>> I'd8 > appreciate it. (I don't want to blow my image at WIS). >  > Thanks  " First, just what is a VAX 3100/40?   1) MicroVAX 3100 model 40  2) VAXserver 3100 model 40 3) Other  6 In any case, try looking at the VMS FAQ, but in brief:  
 >>> boot/1  I This may be the proper command for your system.  Not sure.  From the FAQ:   E 3.  Once at the SYSBOOT> prompt, request that OpenVMS read the system H       startup commands directly from the system console, that the windowH       system (if any) not be started, and that OpenVMS not record these A       particular parameter changes for subsequent system reboots:            SET/STARTUP OPA0:          SET WINDOWSYSTEM 0         SET WRITESYSPARAMS 0         CONTINUE  F 4.  At the $ prompt, the system will now be accepting startup commandsF       directly from the console.  Type the following two DCL commands:  
         SPAWN          @SYS$SYSTEM:STARTUP   I       The result of these two commands will be the normal system startup, D       but you will be left logged in on the console, running under aE       privileged username.  Without the use of the SPAWN command, you 5       would be logged out when the startup completes.   L If the boot/1 doesn't work, and you have a MicroVAX, re-post and I'll go and* wring the answer out of one of my systems.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 18:46:07 -0400 - From: "Island Computers" <sales@islandco.com> G Subject: DEC 36Gb disks cheap ! DO NOT READ IF YOU WANT TO PAY TOO MUCH / Message-ID: <sst0mrrpa88te7@corp.supernews.com>    OK - I am posting another ad  0 DS-RZ1FC-VW 36GB 10KRPM Storageworks Drive $1575  ? These are BRAND NEW SEALED BOXES WITH FULL COMPAQ WARRANTY !!!!    David  -  David Turner Island Computers US Corporation  2700 Gregory Street  Savannah GA 31404  Tel: 912 447 6622  Fax:912 201 0096 sales@islandco.com   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 22:16:39 -0500 7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>  Subject: DECserver 90M Doc- Message-ID: <39CEC397.371192E3@earthlink.net>   F Hey! Found a link to a .PDF of DECserver 90 M doc. in an eBay posting:  ' http://www.leavens.net/dec/dsrvh-om.pdf    --   David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems  http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/   F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 19:31:37 GMT 8 From: Veli =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=F6rkk=F6?= <korkko@decus.fi>5 Subject: Re: Deleting 250,000+ files from a directory ( Message-ID: <39CCBD11.8DF0A734@decus.fi>  B In addition to doing $directory/noheader/notrailer/out=dir.lis andA then sorting that file in reverse order I have used a very simple ; (typically C) program that simply reads the file and issues F approriarite delete() call. At least avoids repeated image-activations of DELETE.EXE.   _veli    Jim Agnew wrote: > k > you can do a dir/size:all of the dir, sort it in reverse order, trim off the extraneous info in a editor,  > and turn it into a delete com file....  for a one-shot deal like this, that is probably the fastest solution you can comeup with...  > now, it won't run as fast as dfu, but the simplicity of it and the fact it can run in batch w/o your attention, gives it a tiny  > peice of merit.. >  > jim  >  > Matt Jacobs wrote: > > L > > An errant process added 250,000+ small files to a single directory on my
 > > Alpha. > > M > > I am using a single process to delete them (delete *.*;*).  The files are 0 > > being deleted at the rate of 5,000 per hour. > > P > > I cannot reformat the disk.  Does anyone have any suggestions on how to more > > quickly delete the files?  > >  > > TIA. > >  > >     Matt Jacobs    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 23:10:12 GMT  From: defdannyd@my-deja.com / Subject: detached process can't output anything ) Message-ID: <8qm1kh$n34$1@nnrp1.deja.com>   G I am having a problem similar to some I have seen in this group in that D I have a detached process taht is having trouble logging any output.C The bigger issue I am having is that I don't use logicals at all. I E specify an output file on the command using the /output qualifier and ? the process itself creates a log file to use for nonfatal error G messages. Both files get created in the expected location and both have E protections of (rwd,rwd,rwd,rwd) and yet no output comes out, ever. I C flush after every output operation. I even sent about a meg of data G through it thinking it might be some kind of buffering issue, but still  nothing. Any ideas? Thanks...    Dan C.    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 20:06:59 -0700 5 From: "cstranslations" <cstranslations@email.msn.com> 3 Subject: Re: detached process can't output anything ( Message-ID: <#052F2pJAHA.66@cpmsnbbsa09>   What language is is written in? D How is it generating output (language specific or direct RMS calls)? What does the program do? L Have you run it under the debugger to trace it's execution (is it processing, the data and attempting to generate output)?   joe   L <defdannyd@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8qm1kh$n34$1@nnrp1.deja.com...I > I am having a problem similar to some I have seen in this group in that F > I have a detached process taht is having trouble logging any output.E > The bigger issue I am having is that I don't use logicals at all. I G > specify an output file on the command using the /output qualifier and A > the process itself creates a log file to use for nonfatal error I > messages. Both files get created in the expected location and both have G > protections of (rwd,rwd,rwd,rwd) and yet no output comes out, ever. I E > flush after every output operation. I even sent about a meg of data I > through it thinking it might be some kind of buffering issue, but still  > nothing. Any ideas? Thanks...  >  > Dan C. >  > ( > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 21:52:08 -0400 # From: sol gongola <sol@adldata.com> ) Subject: Re: duh... max filename lenth??? ' Message-ID: <39CEAFC8.3FA4@adldata.com>    ods-2 has 39.39;version  ods-5 has more  J http://www.openvms.digital.com:8000/72final/6017/6017pro_038.html#hfs_file   sol gongola      heimann@ecs.umass.edu wrote: > , > In Article <39CBA6F9.6D155A85@hsc.vcu.edu>' > Jim Agnew <agnew@hsc.vcu.edu> writes: Q > > guys, i've not only clean forgotten what the max filename and filetype is for P > > vms, i've no idea where it is in the grey wall...  anyone know of the top of > > their head?  > >  > >Jim > >   > >(blushing.. i KNEW this once) > C > Unless there has been a change I missed, 39chars.39chars;version.    ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 17:53:00 GMT . From: Michael Austin <maustin@nc.prestige.net> Subject: Re: Duplex Printing+ Message-ID: <39CE4CE1.EBFA093A@hotmail.com>   , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------94F3F3921725BE9B9A8584CD* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit        John Macallister wrote:   F > > Yes, that's true. You can set the printer to do duplex by default. > > . > > I wonder how many folks choose to do that? > H > Using duplex as the default saves a huge amount of paper. I would alsoM >  recommend using two-up ( eye-sight permitting ) for all standard printing. I >  By taking those two measures you can reduce paper consumption by 75% !  > L > Of course, even more paper can be saved by not printing many things in the >  first place.  > P > Some things still need to be printed especially documentation from which largeQ >  sections are to be digested and some documents have to be printed single-sided N >  to comply with certain admin regulations but everyone should attempt to useN >  paper saving features such as duplex printing, many-up, keeping data/output" >  listing/tables on-line, etc ... >  > John  S I have a better idea!!  Install your favorite OpenVMS Web Server,  Pay me a week or R so worth of consulting (connectivity via interenet is least expensive)  and I willR make all of those reports available via your intranet and save you even more paperN cost.  One company I implemented this for saved $4,000 a year in paper cost byS doing this for only 15 reports primarily because they always printed 5-15 copies of S each report.  Not to mention the fact that the reports were hundreds of pages long.    Features offered:   8     Username/Password protected (using OpenVMS accounts)I     Display of  "small reports"  (ie < nMb ... generally less than 3-6Mb) F     Page through the larger reports n-Lines at a time (default is 600)S     Search the file for word or string [Primarily useful if you do not want to give + your users "interactive" DCL connectivity.]      FTP the fileK     type/tail (OpenVMS >6.0 or using some of the DECUS VMS-Unix-like tools)    Michael Austin DBA Consultant    & --------------94F3F3921725BE9B9A8584CD- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;   name="michaelaustininc.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit , Content-Description: Card for Michael Austin  Content-Disposition: attachment;   filename="michaelaustininc.vcf"   begin:vcard  n:Austin;Michael   tel;work:704-947-1089  x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Michael Austin, Inc 
 adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 + email;internet:michaelaustininc@hotmail.com  title:President  x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Michael E. Austin	 end:vcard   ( --------------94F3F3921725BE9B9A8584CD--   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:03:01 -0500 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>  Subject: RE: HSJ80 in ESA12000J Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D805284808@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com>   Jack,    A few more pointers : L <http://www.compaq.com/products/storageworks/Array-and-SCSI-Controllers/hsj8 0index.html>L <http://www.compaq.com/products/storageworks/array-and-scsi-controllers/HSJ8	 0CI.html>    Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant,
 Compaq Canada0 Professional Services3 Voice : 613-592-4660 FAX   : 819-772-7036 Email : kerry.main@compaq.comh       -----Original Message-----3 From: Jack Patteeuw [mailto:jjpatteeuw@voyager.net]h( Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2000 5:27 AM To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.ComT Subject: HSJ80 in ESA12000    H Is the HSJ80 (CI version of the HSJ/G/Z80) "officially supported" in the
 ESA12000 ?  F We have a large quantity of StorageWorks disk and would prefer to stay( with this technology for the time being.   Jack   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 21:21:19 -0400t- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>M< Subject: Re: Memo:  Deleting 250,000+ files from a directory, Message-ID: <39CEA884.5A93B844@videotron.ca>   hein@eps.enet.dec.c*m wrote:H > >        Instead, construct delete commands with as many filenames, inD > >descending alphanumeric order, as will fit in the 1024 characters  C > I wrote that once. It helped some, not much. At that time I triede. > only 200 bytes. Easy enought to up hat some.    K On a Microvax II, it makes a significant difference versus image activation  for each file.  L In hindsight, I should have written a simple C program to read an input file" contaiuning which files to delete.   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 23:52:36 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>< Subject: Re: Memo:  Deleting 250,000+ files from a directory- Message-ID: <39CECC04.80FDCD21@tsoft-inc.com>X   JF Mezei wrote:  >  > hein@eps.enet.dec.c*m wrote:J > > >        Instead, construct delete commands with as many filenames, inF > > >descending alphanumeric order, as will fit in the 1024 characters > E > > I wrote that once. It helped some, not much. At that time I tried50 > > only 200 bytes. Easy enought to up hat some. > M > On a Microvax II, it makes a significant difference versus image activationy > for each file. > N > In hindsight, I should have written a simple C program to read an input file$ > contaiuning which files to delete.  M Putting multiple filenames in one delete command should help more than you're N giving it credit for.  Yeah, image activation is costly, but two filenames perO activation gives you your single largest savings here.  By cutting out one half P of the activity, you can never surpass this savings, and thus it is significant.  O However, the concept of processing the list within a program, with only 1 imagenP activation, would be a much better way to go.  Wonder how soon this will show up on the freeware tape.    Dave   -- s4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 00:10:42 -0400[2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>& Subject: Re: OpenVMS features (future)7 Message-ID: <200009250010_MC2-B47E-C708@compuserve.com>N  J         Let's start simple and get a print symbiont that will parse PCL t= heE way the current symbiont parses ANSI escape sequences.  Eliminate then# "extra page" problem at the source.rF None of the usual workarounds seem to work on the newest H-P printers.  % Message text written by Jack Patteeuw = >What we really need is support for all of the "user" feature H (single/double side, number up, ANSI, Postscript, forms, etc.) supportedF on the latest version of "popular" printer such as HP, Lexmark, etc. =  A Notice I said "latest versions".  Big companies seem to wholesaledH replace all printer every few years (lease expiration?).  LPD and telnetG connections will never replace the old LPS connection, but they seem toi. be the only solution available theses days.  =   <l   ------------------------------  + Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 14:08:57 -0400 (EDT)0 From: sssd dsds <vu@dr.com>y* Subject: Reading VMS files using Delphi...E Message-ID: <385411270.969818938204.JavaMail.root@web443-mc.mail.com>l  8 In my job, i=B4d like read VMS files in the Alphaserver,  ) using Borland Delphi. How can i do this ?2    . ______________________________________________# FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com + Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=3DsignupL   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 17:33:14 GMTl. From: Michael Austin <maustin@nc.prestige.net>. Subject: Re: Reading VMS files using Delphi.../ Message-ID: <39CE483F.1B3A5F51@nc.prestige.net>u  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------452D1710DD5580015E8AD7BA, Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bits     Questions to ask are:V     do you want READ and WRITE?r     do you want READ ONLY?=     what format are the files in... plain text, .CSV, Indexedo  D If they are just plain text files or  .CSV type files for READ ONLY,H then you can use somthing like SAMBA or NFS client/server and just mountB the OpenVMS disk as a PC device and read the file.  DEC once had aF product called a GATEWAY to RMS that was used to get data from an ODBCD connection to RMS but I do not recall if it had update capabilities.   Michael Austin DBA Consultant     sssd dsds wrote:  8 > In my job, id like read VMS files in the Alphaserver, > + > using Borland Delphi. How can i do this ?: >:0 > ______________________________________________% > FREE Personalized Email at Mail.comt+ > Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup   & --------------452D1710DD5580015E8AD7BA- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;v  name="maustin.vcf"h Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitm, Content-Description: Card for Michael Austin  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="maustin.vcf"m   begin:vcard  n:Austin;Michael o tel;work:704-947-1089g x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Michael Austin, Inc 
 adr:;;;;;; version:2.1o+ email;internet:michaelaustininc@hotmail.com0 title:Presidenta x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Michael E. Austin	 end:vcard   ( --------------452D1710DD5580015E8AD7BA--   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:01:16 +0530p, From: "krish" <a.krishnamoorthy@digital.com>% Subject: remote login using .com filee* Message-ID: <8qmnvp$njc@usenet.pa.dec.com>   Hello,  I  I have two machine "A" and "B" at different destinations. Sitting at A itG want to run a .COM file , that will automatically execute a   .exe file J residing at "B". One way of doing this is specifying a command line inside? the .COM with "command" decnet-nodename, username and password.o  1  eg     $ dir 2.889"user password"::dka0:[000000]l  I But i would like to know if there is any equivalent way of doing it using  TCP/IP protocol.   Thanks in advance,  -Krishn   --@ "Courage is the price that life extracts for granting peace with yourself."Amelia Earhart   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 01:23:47 GMT . From: Murray.Dawson@anu.edu.au (Murray Dawson)= Subject: Re: Replacing system disk, will licenses still work?t4 Message-ID: <39cea8a7.331283725@newshost.anu.edu.au>  2 On Fri, 22 Sep 2000 01:36:28 -0400, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:   >Charles Gilley wrote: >> xQ >> I want to cold-spare a system drive on a VAX4300.  I make a stand-alone backupoM >> tape of the existing system image and blast it onto a replacement disk.  I-8 >> would think that the licenses should still load, yes? > , >Even better, do an IMAGE copy disk to disk.  E Forgive my ignorance, but how would you go about doing an IMAGE copy?    Thanks,8
 Murray Dawsone   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 22:17:46 -0500w7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> = Subject: Re: Replacing system disk, will licenses still work?C- Message-ID: <39CEC3DA.504D04BF@earthlink.net>    Murray Dawson wrote: > 4 > On Fri, 22 Sep 2000 01:36:28 -0400, David A Froble > <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote: >  > >Charles Gilley wrote: > >>S > >> I want to cold-spare a system drive on a VAX4300.  I make a stand-alone backupDO > >> tape of the existing system image and blast it onto a replacement disk.  I : > >> would think that the licenses should still load, yes? > >n. > >Even better, do an IMAGE copy disk to disk. > G > Forgive my ignorance, but how would you go about doing an IMAGE copy?o   $ HELP BACKUP /IMAGE :   ...for basic information.o   --   David J. DachteraS dba DJE Systemsp http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/.  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.0   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 00:04:07 -0400a* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>= Subject: Re: Replacing system disk, will licenses still work?a- Message-ID: <39CECEB7.61B31718@tsoft-inc.com>h   Murray Dawson wrote: > 4 > On Fri, 22 Sep 2000 01:36:28 -0400, David A Froble > <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote: >  > >Charles Gilley wrote: > >>S > >> I want to cold-spare a system drive on a VAX4300.  I make a stand-alone backuptO > >> tape of the existing system image and blast it onto a replacement disk.  I : > >> would think that the licenses should still load, yes? > >u. > >Even better, do an IMAGE copy disk to disk. > G > Forgive my ignorance, but how would you go about doing an IMAGE copy?a > 	 > Thanks,  > Murray Dawsonc  / First, I'll refer you to the FINE help utility.    HELP BACKUP /IMAGE  L Suppose your system disk device is DUA0, and you also have DUA1.  The actualN names don't matter, for SCSI it would be DKA0 and DKA100, etc.  If DUA1 is the target of you operation:   	$ MOUNT DUA1: /FOREIGN 6 	$ BACKUP /IMAGE /IGNORE=INTERLOCK /VERIFY DUA0: DUA1: 	$ DISMOUNT DUA1:t  " Or, if running stand-alone backup:  $ 	$ BACKUP /IMAGE /VERIFY DUA0: DUA1:  O In either case, the target device will be a LOGICAL copy of the source device. mK I say LOGICAL because it WILL NOT normally be a physical copy of the sourceeJ device.  The reason for this is that source device is accessed by the rootN directory structure, and the files are processed in that order.  On the targetI device, the files are written sequentially as they are processed.  From atK fragmentation perspective, the target disk will be in better shape than thet source disk.  L If you're ever going to use the target disk as a system disk, and you run anF on-line defragmenter, you will want to set invoke the SET_FILE_NO_MOVEN program/command file, the name may be slightly different, this is from memory.   Dave   -- a4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 19:39:07 -0400t* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>' Subject: Re: Suggested VMS new feature!p- Message-ID: <39CE909B.8D1055A8@tsoft-inc.com>b   John Nixon wrote:g > I > Well,  I appreciate all the comments, but if I wanted a "roll your own"R > operating system, * > I would probably become a unix advocate.  < I've got to ask if this would apply to any additions to VMS?  P There are some who bemoan the scarcity of third party products for VMS.  Not allI such have to be SAP et al.  Some could/are small utilities, and a utilitymM designed to replace the action of the standard VMS DELETE for file operationsgO could fit in this category.  So, would you pay say $25 for such a product?  ThelN amount could vary, the issue is the acceptance of third party products and the7 willingness of users to pay for such a product/service.u   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 19:41:17 -0400 * From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>' Subject: Re: Suggested VMS new feature!w- Message-ID: <39CE911D.8F50653C@tsoft-inc.com>-   John Vottero wrote:a > L > This whole "UNDELETE Utility" idea is silly.  It's silly because, about 10M > minutes after a slick soft delete/wastebasket utility is added to VMS, some  > bozo is going to ask:  > F >  "How do I recover a file after I've done a EMPTY/ERASE/DO_IT_NOW ?" >  > :)  P Yes, but that doesn't make things any worse than they are now.  And there is theI possibility of recovery in some instances, which would be better than thes current capabilities.o   Dave   -- e4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 19:52:34 -0400e* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>' Subject: Re: Suggested VMS new feature!j- Message-ID: <39CE93C2.1B164AAA@tsoft-inc.com>.  & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: > J > The question is how to handle this for DELETE/PURGE with all of the file/ > versions which can be maintained on a volume.r  N Been thinking about such a utility.  Doubt it's be worth writing, from a sales point of view.  P FILE.EXT;V could end up with a name in the 'wastebasket' of DIR_FILE.EXT_V.  I'dM think the subdirectories in the directory specification could be delimited bycH some default character with installation specific override.  Putting theK directory in the filename allows a wildcard to be used to present to a user # those files he may want to recover.   J The saved files would have to be disk specific, you can rename a 3 GB fileM rather quickly, but copying it to another device would make ofr a rather long E delete time.  Preserving attributes from prior to the delete would be G advisable.  Controlling all activity with prived images would help withoM security.  Requiring a prived user to restore files might be required in someuP environments.  The more you consider the problem, the longer the list gets.  TheN utility would be expected to respect security, not a concern on the W9x boxes.   Dave   -- y4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 00:08:13 GMTh= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)s' Subject: Re: Suggested VMS new feature! 0 Message-ID: <009F09EB.A22E311D@SendSpamHere.ORG>  Z In article <39CE93C2.1B164AAA@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:' >"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:m >> fK >> The question is how to handle this for DELETE/PURGE with all of the file 0 >> versions which can be maintained on a volume. >nO >Been thinking about such a utility.  Doubt it's be worth writing, from a salesD >point of view.e >oQ >FILE.EXT;V could end up with a name in the 'wastebasket' of DIR_FILE.EXT_V.  I'd N >think the subdirectories in the directory specification could be delimited byI >some default character with installation specific override.  Putting thenL >directory in the filename allows a wildcard to be used to present to a user$ >those files he may want to recover.  H The UNDELETE request seems to come from the single-use PeeCee mindset.  G What do you do if one morning all the users on the system login and, in H a pre-coffee stupor, delete their LOGIN.COM file and request the operatoH to restore it?  Which LOGIN.COM of several hundred in the WASTEBASKET do you restore and to whom???     --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM9            1O city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.    ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 19:28:51 -0500s) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net>o' Subject: Re: Suggested VMS new feature!l/ Message-ID: <sst6uijfbd9f6a@corp.supernews.com>e  7 "David A Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in messageo' news:39CE93C2.1B164AAA@tsoft-inc.com... ( > "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: > >iL > > The question is how to handle this for DELETE/PURGE with all of the file1 > > versions which can be maintained on a volume.b >iJ > Been thinking about such a utility.  Doubt it's be worth writing, from a sales" > point of view.  J Glen has a comercial version of Safety that has more features than the one on the freeware CD-ROM.t  = > FILE.EXT;V could end up with a name in the 'wastebasket' of- DIR_FILE.EXT_V.  I'dL > think the subdirectories in the directory specification could be delimited byJ > some default character with installation specific override.  Putting theH > directory in the filename allows a wildcard to be used to present to a user% > those files he may want to recover.y  C There is absolutely no reason that the "Wastebasket" could not have2L directories in it.  How to handle a file with the same name and version thatK was deleted several times could be an issue.  The way to handle it might be J to ignore the version number of the deleted file when it is moved into theI wastebasket and assign a new one then.  The user would use the "deletion"iJ date time to figure out which one they wanted to undelete, if it was still present.  L > The saved files would have to be disk specific, you can rename a 3 GB fileJ > rather quickly, but copying it to another device would make ofr a rather longG > delete time.  Preserving attributes from prior to the delete would betI > advisable.  Controlling all activity with prived images would help with J > security.  Requiring a prived user to restore files might be required in someG > environments.  The more you consider the problem, the longer the list 
 gets.  TheI > utility would be expected to respect security, not a concern on the W9xi boxes.  E If you implement the "wastebasket" to be a directory tree starting at I [000000], all VMS ACLs can be applied for security.  All file operations, K except for directory creation, should be done in the user's contents.  If aoK default ACL or Owner is applied to the specific wastebasket directory, thatcH would rule, and prevent the shadow directory from being deleted during a cleanup operation.  K You would need to add a qualifier to the commands that can delete a file of $ a /[NO]WASTEBASKET for completeness.   -Johnr wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 01:50:29 GMTy/ From: "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net>e' Subject: Re: Suggested VMS new feature!rF Message-ID: <Fbyz5.3201$s76.243319@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>  J I don't have any problem with third party products.  I push for them and I' wish there were more available for VMS.R  I However, DELETE is a native VMS command, and I would not feel comfortable F buying or writing a replacement for it.  Who knows what may occur in aA future version of VMS that will invalidate my new DELETE command.0  J I am glad to see that my original post garnered such response, but I dont'F really understand all the criticism of it.  To me it seems like a very? logical extension that would be very beneficial to many people.h  J Of course, I welcome all comments, except for the idiot that accused me of1 having a Pee-Cee mind set.  That one really hurt.a  7 "David A Froble" <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote in message ' news:39CE909B.8D1055A8@tsoft-inc.com...t > John Nixon wrote:s > >tK > > Well,  I appreciate all the comments, but if I wanted a "roll your own"  > > operating system,e, > > I would probably become a unix advocate. >c> > I've got to ask if this would apply to any additions to VMS? > I > There are some who bemoan the scarcity of third party products for VMS.e Not all K > such have to be SAP et al.  Some could/are small utilities, and a utility D > designed to replace the action of the standard VMS DELETE for file
 operationsL > could fit in this category.  So, would you pay say $25 for such a product? TherL > amount could vary, the issue is the acceptance of third party products and the,9 > willingness of users to pay for such a product/service._ >_ > Dave >_ > --6 > David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04506 > Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596@ > DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com8 > T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 22:22:27 -0500i7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> ' Subject: Re: Suggested VMS new feature!o- Message-ID: <39CEC4F3.C76B8FD0@earthlink.net>t   John Nixon wrote:: > L > I don't have any problem with third party products.  I push for them and I) > wish there were more available for VMS.e > K > However, DELETE is a native VMS command, and I would not feel comfortablet* > buying or writing a replacement for it.   G Why not? That's the easiest, most direct way to ensure that ALL DELETEs * system-wide perform via the new behavior.   @ Remember - anything you "plug-in" is just as easily "unplugged".   > Who knows what may occur in anC > future version of VMS that will invalidate my new DELETE command.l  C Not likely. You'll have to "back out" your customization before youh; upgrade, and re-insert it after. So, I don't see a problem.   F They're not likely to change ODS-2/-5 in any major way without a prior( announcement. So, I don't see a problem.   -- a David J. Dachtera  dba DJE Systems5 http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/:  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.n   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 22:23:54 -0500c7 From: "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net>0' Subject: Re: Suggested VMS new feature!-- Message-ID: <39CEC54A.7CADA89E@earthlink.net>   & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: > \ > In article <39CE93C2.1B164AAA@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:) > >"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:e > >>M > >> The question is how to handle this for DELETE/PURGE with all of the filex2 > >> versions which can be maintained on a volume. > >hQ > >Been thinking about such a utility.  Doubt it's be worth writing, from a salese > >point of view.o > >eS > >FILE.EXT;V could end up with a name in the 'wastebasket' of DIR_FILE.EXT_V.  I'd P > >think the subdirectories in the directory specification could be delimited byK > >some default character with installation specific override.  Putting theiN > >directory in the filename allows a wildcard to be used to present to a user& > >those files he may want to recover. > H > The UNDELETE request seems to come from the single-use PeeCee mindset.I > What do you do if one morning all the users on the system login and, innJ > a pre-coffee stupor, delete their LOGIN.COM file and request the operatoJ > to restore it?  Which LOGIN.COM of several hundred in the WASTEBASKET do > you restore and to whom???  E As I suggested in my rather lengthy post, there would need to be somepC indication of the source directory for any file in the wastebasket,dE regardless of whether that exploits the existing ODS infrastructue ori some other means.o   --   David J. DachteraM dba DJE Systemsn http://www.djesys.com/  : Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board: http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/e  F This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings is to be expected.  @ Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression.  F However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are strongly discouraged.:   ------------------------------    Date: 25 Sep 2000 00:44:49 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)' Subject: Re: Suggested VMS new feature!m+ Message-ID: <jgh3yuTJwCt2@eisner.decus.org>   x In article <Fbyz5.3201$s76.243319@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net> writes:L > I don't have any problem with third party products.  I push for them and I) > wish there were more available for VMS.i > K > However, DELETE is a native VMS command, and I would not feel comfortablefH > buying or writing a replacement for it.  Who knows what may occur in aC > future version of VMS that will invalidate my new DELETE command.i > L > I am glad to see that my original post garnered such response, but I dont'H > really understand all the criticism of it.  To me it seems like a veryA > logical extension that would be very beneficial to many people.- >     9 	Maybe they were too harsh.  Brian Schenkenberger pointedi@ 	out that he has delete/confirm as a global.  I take a different9 	tact.  If I'm putzing around I create scratch files that7; 	are two letters long a.a, l.l, x.x , you get the idea.  SoS9 	a clean-up of them I know won't have side-effects, i.e. c! 	delete/log %.%;* .. or somesuch.r  1 	Otherwise, if I'm deleting, I filter my deletes.o 	Typically:   # 		$ delete/sinc/confirm/log *.com;*   > 	The /sinc keeps me from whacking prior versions just in case.= 	But I most always use /confirm just in case I up arrow as I ?D 	am flying along.  That is a big risk.  Maybe others do recall/erase@ 	to keep that from happening.  One other thing I do before I hitF 	delete, I hesitate and think to myself "do I really want to do this?"  D 	Overkill?  Maybe.  But I haven't accidently deleted files in a very@ 	long time (6 , 8 years?).  And no I'm not this anal in general.  	I just remember that Neil says:  * 		"Once your gone.... you can't come back"  > 	So maybe it is unfair that some folks have been overly harsh.< 	But maybe most of us have the attitude that the WasteBasket 	is real cute but a yawner.I   				RobY   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 00:10:44 -0400 2 From: "Richard B. Gilbert" <DRAGON@compuserve.com>' Subject: Re: Suggested VMS new feature!u7 Message-ID: <200009250010_MC2-B47E-C709@compuserve.com>i  8 Message text written by INTERNET:system@SendSpamHere.ORGJ >The UNDELETE request seems to come from the single-use PeeCee mindset.  =  G What do you do if one morning all the users on the system login and, intH a pre-coffee stupor, delete their LOGIN.COM file and request the operatoH to restore it?  Which LOGIN.COM of several hundred in the WASTEBASKET do you restore and to whom??? <s  & Don't these files still have an owner?   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 00:22:20 -0400e* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>' Subject: Re: Suggested VMS new feature!e- Message-ID: <39CED2FC.CED5A82D@tsoft-inc.com>,  & "Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote: > \ > In article <39CE93C2.1B164AAA@tsoft-inc.com>, David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> writes:) > >"Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-" wrote:m > >>M > >> The question is how to handle this for DELETE/PURGE with all of the files2 > >> versions which can be maintained on a volume. > >wQ > >Been thinking about such a utility.  Doubt it's be worth writing, from a salesn > >point of view.t > > S > >FILE.EXT;V could end up with a name in the 'wastebasket' of DIR_FILE.EXT_V.  I'daP > >think the subdirectories in the directory specification could be delimited byK > >some default character with installation specific override.  Putting theiN > >directory in the filename allows a wildcard to be used to present to a user& > >those files he may want to recover. > H > The UNDELETE request seems to come from the single-use PeeCee mindset.I > What do you do if one morning all the users on the system login and, insJ > a pre-coffee stupor, delete their LOGIN.COM file and request the operatoJ > to restore it?  Which LOGIN.COM of several hundred in the WASTEBASKET do > you restore and to whom???  O Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear enough.  In the 'wastebasket', the saved filenamea6 would include the directory it came from, for example:   	DISK0:[DFE.TEMP]LOGIN.COM;341   would be named:a   	DFE_TEMP___LOGIN.COM_34;1  P I've used the underscore in place of the dots in the directory path, but anotherM character could be used.  Yeah, there is the possibility of using a character O that is actually used in a directory name.  I've used 3 underscores to indicatesK the end of the directory specification.  With a little thought, some ratherIL unique strings could be devised, and there could even be 2 or 3 alternativesP whenever the primary delimiter was actually encountered in a file specification.  N Other possibilities (off the top of my head) could be totally arbitrary uniqueM filenames, tokens really, and a database of all the pertinant information for0P each file.  It would be the database which would actually drive the whole thing,L using the 'token' to describe the actual file to be worked with, and renamedO appropriately.  This is actually a more flexible method, as original directory,3O filename, all attributes and whatever else desired could be stored and restoredn should the file be 'undeleted'.C  K For me, the former method would be more than adequate, with the wastebasket O being emptied after the nightly backup.  For a more comprehensive product, muchwO thought would have to go into security and other things.  For the VMS people totK do it, there would be so many issues, that it would become a hugh project. uO That's why I think a simple utility that's rather small in scale would work foriN most, and if it didn't, then don't buy it.  Hence my first question of whetherM anyone would buy a third party product.  I've seen hugh resistance to this inl some quarters.  N For fun, think of the issues when purging rather than deleting.  This isn't as, simple as the PC mindset would make it seem.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 00:50:13 -0400n* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>' Subject: Re: Suggested VMS new feature!T- Message-ID: <39CED985.763B0CA0@tsoft-inc.com>t   John Nixon wrote:h > L > I don't have any problem with third party products.  I push for them and I) > wish there were more available for VMS.2 > K > However, DELETE is a native VMS command, and I would not feel comfortabletH > buying or writing a replacement for it.  Who knows what may occur in aC > future version of VMS that will invalidate my new DELETE command.a  N I don't think being a 'native VMS command' is really an issue.  If you upgradeK VMS, there can be many Compaq and third party products that also require an1O upgrade.  The disk defragmenters come to mind, and the stories of corrupt diskseN resulting from continuing to use a Version X fragmenter after upgrading VMS toN version X+1, or whatever do exist.  There would be the tasks of determining ifH the utility will work with the new version of VMS, and re-installing the; utility.  These would be far from unique to such a product.p  L > I am glad to see that my original post garnered such response, but I dont'H > really understand all the criticism of it.  To me it seems like a veryA > logical extension that would be very beneficial to many people.c  O Well, there are some of us that don't make such mistakes.  Ha!  There are thosesK that have, and those who will at some time.  Mine have been infrequent, andeH usually not too bad.  Losing 4 hours of programming work, without even a! hardcopy, can sure ruin your day.e  P Having such a capability, or the option of such, cannot be bad.  Too much ego toL use it, fine, don't enable it.  Otherwise, you've got a friend watching over you, just in case.  N I think the criticism comes not so much from the capability, but what would beJ involved in implementing it.  Personally, I feel that for it to be able toL operate in all VMS environments, the design and development task is far fromM trivial, regardless of what Steve said in an earlier post.  There will be thenP user, somewhere, that wants to keep 3 years of deleted files in his wastebasket,J and has files gigabytes in size.  About the time this clueless user gets aK message that he cannot create a new file, he'll call it a bug, and expect aoP fix.  The gotcha's are too numerous to list.  It's a bit of considering the costP vs the value.  For careful people, the value is slight, and if the cost is fully) understood, it's considered way too much.v  L So, logical, yes.  Beneficial, yes.  Easy, no, not if a universal solution.  Easy for specific sites, yes.   L > Of course, I welcome all comments, except for the idiot that accused me of3 > having a Pee-Cee mind set.  That one really hurt.c  M Hmmm....  Only reference that I could find was from Brian, and that wasn't aniO accusation, it was a statement of where the idea appears to have come from, notsO an accusation that you had that mindset.  I don't think anything was implied bylM that statement.  While a universal idea, the most common implementation is on  PCs.   Dave   --  4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 23:26:37 -0400n1 From: "Mary Bennett" <maryleebennett@hotmail.com> V Subject: Re: Top "F" Reasons OpenVMS isn't going to Die  (WAS:Re: [VMS] VAX is  dying). Message-ID: <ssthg9pvk859a@corp.supernews.com>   Matt:rG     VMS is WinNT without the GUI - there is NOTHING that cannot be doneu8 simpler with VMS that with ANY other opsys.  Beleive me!  L     I've worked with VMS since it came out, programming, managing, teaching.G I've been able to make competent system managers out of secretaries andoD gurus out of high school students.  My 9-year old writes his own comK procedures on my 4200 to run batch jobs for his 4th grade math homework...."  K     The beauty of VMS is that it is the ONLY true 'User Friendly' operating J system that has ever been developed.  It's also the most powerful from theK command line.  Yes, I've used true-64 UNIX, but why?  Simplicity, power andeL ease of use are a true developer's criteria.  If you want obscure, use UNIX,J LINUX, MVS.....  but if you are developing commercial products for generalK use that you anticipate turnkey operation, VMS is the only realistic way toS go.K   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 23:16:56 -0400-1 From: "Mary Bennett" <maryleebennett@hotmail.com>rU Subject: Re: Top "F" Reasons OpenVMS isn't going to Die  (WAS:Re: [VMS] VAX is dying)r/ Message-ID: <sstgto9o99v8d6@corp.supernews.com>s  K >>I must say that as a collector and restorer of old VAX equipment it givesIK me great pleasure to  think that because they've finally stopped making newLJ VAXen, I might one day be able to have one of each kind in my living room, <<  H You need to see my 4200 clustered with my 3100/40 that also talks nicelyA with my PDP-11/73 sitting next to me (much to my wife's disdain).t  J VMS will not die for at least another 25 years.  I've been working with itH since 1978.  After suffering through MVS, MPE-3000 and several others, IK recognized perfection when I first used it.  I have trained secretaries howtB to be proficient in VMS.  I've written turnkey applications on theH platform(s)...it's the only opsys that you can realistically do that on.  J My 9-year old can write command procedures to do whatever he wants, that'sE how 'User Friendly' it is!  Compaq got a goldmine at bargain basement / prices.  Now if they can learn to market it....r   ------------------------------  # Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 17:14:44 GMT . From: Michael Austin <maustin@nc.prestige.net> Subject: Re: VMS and UNIXh/ Message-ID: <39CE43EA.FFE17A2E@nc.prestige.net>v  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.& --------------F801FB42F1D3BEDDF5995DE2* Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitt       Jack Patteeuw wrote:  < > so what is the differences between chocolate and vanilla ? >s  6 about the same the difference between OpenVMS and UNIX   >n > Jack >e > Beg Comp User wrote: > >sR > > What is the difference between VMS and UNIX?  What are the advantages of each? > > TIA.  & --------------F801FB42F1D3BEDDF5995DE2- Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;M  name="maustin.vcf"c Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitR, Content-Description: Card for Michael Austin  Content-Disposition: attachment;  filename="maustin.vcf"r   begin:vcard  n:Austin;Michael p tel;work:704-947-1089j x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Michael Austin, IncD
 adr:;;;;;; version:2.1h+ email;internet:michaelaustininc@hotmail.com' title:Presidentm x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Michael E. Austin	 end:vcard   ( --------------F801FB42F1D3BEDDF5995DE2--   ------------------------------  % Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 19:57:07 -0400a* From: David A Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> Subject: Re: VMS and UNIX - Message-ID: <39CE94D3.4F417D70@tsoft-inc.com>E   Beg Comp User wrote: > P > What is the difference between VMS and UNIX?  What are the advantages of each? > TIA.   Unix bigots hate VMS.c   VMS bigots hate Unix.n   VMS bigots are right!a   -- e4 David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-04504 Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      Fax: 724-529-0596> DFE Ultralights, Inc.              E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com6 T-Soft, Inc.  170 Grimplin Road  Vanderbilt, PA  15486   ------------------------------  # Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 01:39:53 GMT / From: "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net>l Subject: Re: VMS and UNIXgF Message-ID: <J1yz5.3190$s76.241344@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>  H As you have probably figured out by now,  your question is too broad andK complex to be covered here.  Also, since this is a VMS board, you are goinge to get mostly pro-VMS answers.  K However, on a serious note,  I see two major advantages of VMS.  These both-@ stem from the fact that VMS is the product of a well thought outK architecture, whereas Unix could be the proverbial broth in the phrase "toofC many cooks etc...".   The problem VMS has is 100% in its marketing.h  H The first big advantage of VMS is the distributed lock manager.  This isB what allows cluster members (real clusters not those other clusterJ wannabees) to actually share data in real time.  There is no "master node"H owning a disk.  All cluster nodes can access all data on the disk at all8 times, even while other nodes are also sharing the disk.  G The other advantage is consistancy.  If you issue the command   "DELETE L /LOG..."  the log means the same thing as it does in BACKUP/LOG  or COPY/LOG .   L If you say "SEARCH/SINCE=..."   the "/since" means the same thing as it doesE in "DIR/SIN=" or "DELETE/SIN=" or various other commands.   What doest he  -t mean in Unix.  C Of course, each OS has hundreds of pros and cons and if you ask 100tK people,you will likely get 100 different answers, but as someone else said,fH the VMS bigots are right.  Unfortunately, they are also in the minority.  6 "Beg Comp User" <begcompuser@aol.com> wrote in message4 news:20000923153236.16269.00000927@ng-cg1.aol.com...J > What is the difference between VMS and UNIX?  What are the advantages of each?  > TIA.   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.536 ************************