1 INFO-VAX	Tue, 26 Sep 2000	Volume 2000 : Issue 539       Contents: !d!i!g!i!t!a!l! PRESS Web site? # Re: !d!i!g!i!t!a!l! PRESS Web site? # Re: !d!i!g!i!t!a!l! PRESS Web site? 3 Re: Advertising for OpenVMS from Executive Software  Re: AlphaPC164 & decwindows , Re: Alphaserver 4100 + KGPSA (Fiber Channel), Re: Alphaserver 4100 + KGPSA (Fiber Channel) Re: Basic freeware CD problems Re: Basic freeware CD problems( Re: C system service call style question* Re: detached process can't output anything Digital Business Link  Re: elsa configuration problem FREE e-book 2 Re: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)F Re: How to connect Digital line printer (LP29 or LP37) to HP JetDirectF Re: How to connect Digital line printer (LP29 or LP37) to HP JetDirect? Is the VMS x.25 programming documentation available on the web?  LPS 17/600 Documentation) Re: More OpenVMS advertising (from the Q) ) Re: More OpenVMS advertising (from the Q) ) RE: More OpenVMS advertising (from the Q) ) Re: More OpenVMS advertising (from the Q) % Re: No more SYSDUMP.DMP? No more NTP?  Re: NTP with UCX 4.2 Re: OpenVMS 7.3 # Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships # Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships  OT: Digital interference. " Re: OT: More MSFT on US Navy ships/ Re: Please help a poorly Microvax 3100 - update  Re: Press Release  Re: Press Release # Re: remote tailing of file with UCX % Re: restart an Alpha ETN42-CA machine % Re: restart an Alpha ETN42-CA machine % Re: restart an Alpha ETN42-CA machine % Re: restart an Alpha ETN42-CA machine % Re: restart an Alpha ETN42-CA machine % Re: restart an Alpha ETN42-CA machine , Re[2]: More OpenVMS advertising (from the Q)% Set proc/SUSP /RESUME weird behaviour ) Re: Set proc/SUSP /RESUME weird behaviour  RE: Sockets and Fortran 1 Re: Son of BUT... (Re: Why are these files open?) 1 Re: Son of BUT... (Re: Why are these files open?)  Re: Spring 2000 VMS sigtapes Re: SRAM Corruption Thread re: SRAM Corruption Thread Re: SRAM Corruption Thread re: SRAM Corruption Thread Re: Suggested VMS new feature!! RE: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persist J Re: Top "F" Reasons OpenVMS isn't going to Die  (WAS:Re: [VMS] VAXisdying)0 Re: UNDELET (Was Re: Suggested VMS new feature!) Re: ups sizing Re: use of LIB$GET_VM " Re: Using shared memory on OpenVMS. VAX ODL,  AXP ODL, and PC Readable Documention Re: VMS Session Using ExceedE Re: War story: Accidental postings in HTML/MIME (hopefully fixed now) , Re: Why is it so hard to port things to VMS?, Re: Why is it so hard to port things to VMS?, Re: Why is it so hard to port things to VMS?, Re: Why is it so hard to port things to VMS?, re: Why is it so hard to port things to VMS?, Re: Why is it so hard to port things to VMS?, Re: Why is it so hard to port things to VMS?, Re: Why is it so hard to port things to VMS?, Re: Why is it so hard to port things to VMS?, Re: Why is it so hard to port things to VMS?, Re: Why is it so hard to port things to VMS? Your Status #4F12   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:22:17 +0200 0 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Easynet.fr>( Subject: !d!i!g!i!t!a!l! PRESS Web site?* Message-ID: <39D04099.AA951F87@Easynet.fr>  B I heard that Digital Press is an independent company and so COMPAQC didn't "buy" them. Is this true? Do they have a Web site? Altavista 7 gives more than a thousand of entries for the keywords.    D.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:42:13 GMT ( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>, Subject: Re: !d!i!g!i!t!a!l! PRESS Web site?& Message-ID: <G1HK6D.v2@spcuna.spc.edu>  2 Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@easynet.fr> writes:D > I heard that Digital Press is an independent company and so COMPAQE > didn't "buy" them. Is this true? Do they have a Web site? Altavista 9 > gives more than a thousand of entries for the keywords.   #   http://www.bhusa.com/digitalpress   - 	Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.com 5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USA    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 10:17:51 +0200 (MET)  From: ZINSER@sysdev.exchange.de , Subject: Re: !d!i!g!i!t!a!l! PRESS Web site?3 Message-ID: <01JUMITK6JO29S3SXQ@sysdev.exchange.de>    Hello!  : > From:	IN%"INFO-VAX@MVB.SAIC.COM" 26-SEP-2000 09:00:54.14' > Subj:	!d!i!g!i!t!a!l! PRESS Web site?   D > I heard that Digital Press is an independent company and so COMPAQE > didn't "buy" them. Is this true? Do they have a Web site? Altavista 9 > gives more than a thousand of entries for the keywords.  >  > D.    	http://www.bh.com/digitalpress/ 		   				Greetings, Martin P Dr. Martin P.J. Zinser                                 zinser@sysdev.exchange.de2 Deutsche Boerse Systems AG                        O Koenigsberger Str. 29                                  Tel: +49 69 2101 5634    L 60284 Frankfurt                                        FAX: +49 69 2101 3411P Germany                                                Private:  zinser@decus.de   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:31:01 -0000 - From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer) < Subject: Re: Advertising for OpenVMS from Executive Software/ Message-ID: <st1jq5nbl53g68@news.supernews.com>   - davef@tsoft-inc.com (David A Froble) wrote in # <39CBAED7.C78115DA@tsoft-inc.com>:   > @ >Well, I for one would bitch regardless of what type of rope was >proposed.  :-)  >   F I would prefer to be hanged by Microsoft Rope, new or otherwise.  The C documentation on how to use is very poor, resulting in many failed  D hangings.  Installation of Microsoft Rope can be a nightmare, often E concluding in an unusable gallows.  Microsoft Rope often breaks when  C stressed in the least, and while you might use two Microsoft Ropes  I together, one backing up the other, you cannot cluster 16 or 32 ropes to  7 perform a large hanging, or multiple parallel hangings.    ws   --   << Boycott Shampoo >>  << Demand REAL POO >>    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:31:32 +0000 (UTC) ' From: Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.jyu.fi> $ Subject: Re: AlphaPC164 & decwindows, Message-ID: <8qpmt4$8g8$2@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>  + Osmo Kujala <kujala@kanto.cc.jyu.fi> wrote: , > yyyc186.illegaltospam_@flashcom.net wrote:  K >> What autoconfig command did you use to get Decwindows to see the device?    > $ mcr sysman io autoconfig  G Sorry, forget what I said about autoconfiguring. Normally io autoconfig C is done in boot. I had that switched off for some testing purpose a F long time a'go and didn't remember. Diamond Stealth with S3 Trio64 andI V2.09 Bios works in my PC164 with VMS 7.2 without problems.           /OK    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 13:40:39 +0100 0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>5 Subject: Re: Alphaserver 4100 + KGPSA (Fiber Channel) * Message-ID: <39D09947.AB51BB37@uk.sun.com>  ! "Koska, John C. (LNG-MBC)" wrote:  >  > > -----Original Message------ > > From: fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br 0 > > [mailto:fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br], > > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 8:34 AM > > To: Info-VAX@mvb.saic.com 5 > > Subject: Alphaserver 4100 + KGPSA (Fiber Channel)  > > A > > Do you know if the Alphaserver 4100 (OpenVMS 7.2 and 7.1-1H2) B > > works fine with the KGPSA adapter. We will migrate our storage> > > from a Storage Works (nowadays SCSI) to an EMC array (FC). > >  > > Regards, > >  > > Fabio Cardoso  > > Analista de Suporte , > > Compaq / Petrobras - Macae - RJ - Brasil > >  > = > The AlphaServer 4100, OpenVMS, and the KGPSA will work fine ? > and are supported. I don't know about EMC array fibre channel > > working with the former.  I doubt it is supported by Compaq. > @ > I do know from personal experience that fast wide differentialC > SCSI EMC array/Symmetrix with an AlphaServer 4100 running OpenVMS @ > 7.1 to 7.2-1 was not reliable and poor performing in my hands. > 6 Don't worry it wasn't just you or OpenVMS it seems to  be a generic issue.   5 EMC have a set of system parameters that you have to  3 change in the Solaris kernel which in effect do the 
 following.  5 Throttle the UltraSCSI adpators on the Sun's so that  1 the maximum transfer speed is 20 MB/s rather than  40.   3 Change the SCSI queue length from I think 256 to 2.   . Finally they up the timeout on SCSI transfers.  3 Rather cutely they told one customer that this was  / required to get the slow old Sun's to talk the  . the EMC when one of them asked. Unsuprisingly 2 the customer wasn't too convinced by this because / none of their other storage required this kind   of "tuning".  1 This may have been the cause of your issues with  	 the 4100.    regards  Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2000 10:21:20 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) 5 Subject: Re: Alphaserver 4100 + KGPSA (Fiber Channel) + Message-ID: <GTR0roHi0zEz@eisner.decus.org>   ] In article <39D09947.AB51BB37@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:   8 > Don't worry it wasn't just you or OpenVMS it seems to  > be a generic issue.  > 7 > EMC have a set of system parameters that you have to  5 > change in the Solaris kernel which in effect do the  > following. > 7 > Throttle the UltraSCSI adpators on the Sun's so that  3 > the maximum transfer speed is 20 MB/s rather than  > 40.  > 5 > Change the SCSI queue length from I think 256 to 2.  > 0 > Finally they up the timeout on SCSI transfers. > 5 > Rather cutely they told one customer that this was  1 > required to get the slow old Sun's to talk the  0 > the EMC when one of them asked. Unsuprisingly 4 > the customer wasn't too convinced by this because 1 > none of their other storage required this kind   > of "tuning".  7 Those Sun machines certainly are strange if slowing the 8 adapters, reducing the queue length and raising timeouts8 is necessary to "speed up" the hardware to match EMC :-)  $ Thanks for the sanity check, Andrew.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:01:57 +0010 % From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au ' Subject: Re: Basic freeware CD problems 5 Message-ID: <01JUN3965VOI004M7S@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>    Stan Quayle wrote:  M >> Right. I just tried the most recent version off the Compaq site, and I get  >> the same:
 >> I type: >> 'r unzip.exe "-Z"'  >> DCL says @ >> 'Too many parameters. Reenter command with fewer parameters.'N >> This must be some setup problem because it's the same as I got for gzip. So9 >> what is the syntax to run executables with parameters?   N What I am seeing is use of a symbol "r", which probably equates to run.  This & would align with the DCL error quoted.  F >You have to create a "foreign command" symbol.  Let's suppose you're G >trying to run UNZIP.EXE, located in directory DISK$XYZ:[LAURIE.FREE].  , >You would then type this at the "$" prompt: > / >    UNZIP :== $DISK$XYZ:[LAURIE.FREE]UNZIP.EXE  > E >The "$" means to run an executable.  If you had a command procedure  6 >("script" in Unix parlance), you'd use a "@" instead. > A >The disk and directory are required in this definition.  If not  & >included, it defaults to SYS$SYSTEM:.  L Stan's definition here is correct.  However, two points:  if the .EXE is in  SYS$SYSTEM, one can use MCR.  O Use of DCL$PATH also covers both executables and command files.  I set this up  Q at system level on my machines and was able to avoid many foreign commands and a   handful of verbs.   $ Both these avoid symbol definitions.   Regards, Paddy   Paddy O'Brien, Transmission Development, 
 TransGrid, PO Box A1000, Sydney South,  NSW 2000, Australia    Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050& Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  M Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people, ; but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.     F I'm sure that Hoff would mention that this is all included in the FAQ  under topic DCL1:   >     http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard/openvms_faq.html#DCL1     --Stan  
 ----------G Stanley F. Quayle, P.E.   N8SQ   +1 614-868-1363   Fax: +1 614 868-1671 1 8572 North Spring Ct. NW, Pickerington, OH  43147 = Preferred address:  stan@stanq.com       http://www.stanq.com         , Return-path: <Info-VAX-Request@mvb.saic.com>* Return-path: Info-VAX-Request@Mvb.Saic.ComM Received: from vaccine.tg.nsw.gov.au (vaccine.tg.nsw.gov.au [203.32.225.150]) .  by tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au (PMDF V5.2-32 #33154)J  with ESMTP id <01JUHPFJDWHI004FPB@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au> for obrien@PYTHON7  (ORCPT rfc822;paddy.o+27brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au); Fri,   22 Sep 2000 23:32:15 +10:000 Received: from scarab.tg.nsw.gov.au (unverified)=  by vaccine.tg.nsw.gov.au (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.2) =  with SMTP id <Bcb20e1964ed0f9fc1a@vaccine.tg.nsw.gov.au> for C  <paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au>; Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:31:33 +1100 J Received: by scarab.tg.nsw.gov.au; (5.65v4.0/1.3/10May95) id AA18652; Fri,  22 Sep 2000 22:39:48 +1000 P Received: from portal.west.saic.com by scarab.tg.nsw.gov.au (smtpxd); id XA27731> Received: from cpmx.saic.com by portal.west.saic.com via smtpd;  (for scarab.tg.nsw.gov.au [203.32.224.30]) with SMTP; Fri,    22 Sep 2000 12:32:13 +0000 (UT): Received: from [139.121.95.12] by cpmx.mail.saic.com; Fri,  22 Sep 2000 05:30:36 -0700 4 Received: from cphub.mail.saic.com ([139.121.95.10])K  by 139.121.95.12 (Norton AntiVirus for Internet Email Gateways 1.0) ; Fri, !  22 Sep 2000 12:30:35 +0000 (GMT) 7 Received: from MVB.SAIC.COM by cpmx.mail.saic.com; Fri,   22 Sep 2000 05:28:10 -0700 % Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 08:22:30 -0400  From: stan@stanq.com' Subject: Re: Basic freeware CD problems  To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com - Message-id: <39CB16C6.7013.6B7D15E@localhost> - Organization: Info-Vax<==>Comp.Os.Vms Gateway  MIME-version: 1.0 * Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT 	 Lines: 36 # X-Gateway-source-info: Mailing List  X-Newsgroups: comp.os.vms : Original-recipient: rfc822;paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:18:42 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> ' Subject: Re: Basic freeware CD problems ) Message-ID: <39D069F2.6463AF83@gtech.com>   & paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au wrote: > Stan Quayle wrote:O > >> Right. I just tried the most recent version off the Compaq site, and I get  > >> the same: > >> I type: > >> 'r unzip.exe "-Z"' 
 > >> DCL says B > >> 'Too many parameters. Reenter command with fewer parameters.'P > >> This must be some setup problem because it's the same as I got for gzip. So; > >> what is the syntax to run executables with parameters?  > O > What I am seeing is use of a symbol "r", which probably equates to run.  This ( > would align with the DCL error quoted.  @ Actually R are a valid abbreviation for RUN on all VMS systems !  G > >You have to create a "foreign command" symbol.  Let's suppose you're H > >trying to run UNZIP.EXE, located in directory DISK$XYZ:[LAURIE.FREE].. > >You would then type this at the "$" prompt: > > 1 > >    UNZIP :== $DISK$XYZ:[LAURIE.FREE]UNZIP.EXE  > > F > >The "$" means to run an executable.  If you had a command procedure8 > >("script" in Unix parlance), you'd use a "@" instead. > > B > >The disk and directory are required in this definition.  If not( > >included, it defaults to SYS$SYSTEM:. > M > Stan's definition here is correct.  However, two points:  if the .EXE is in  > SYS$SYSTEM, one can use MCR.  H It is also possible to use MCR with EXE's in other locations. SYS$SYSTEM are G just the default for MCR (it is also the default for foreign commands).    Arne   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:26:36 GMT * From: Roger Tucker <roger.tucker@wcom.com>1 Subject: Re: C system service call style question ( Message-ID: <39D07B59.601E184B@wcom.com>  < It is true that there are a few problems in the header files@ where the types don't match, and the example of using sys$numtim= and lib$cvt_vectim is a good example of that, but turning off ? __NEW_STARLET prevents any form of parameter checking including3? making sure you have the right number of arguments and that youi@ arn't passing an int where an int by reference is required, etc.  B Our goal is to use __NEW_STARLET to get as much parameter checking< as possible, use standard VMS header files and structs where> possible, and only cast where this doesn't work.  I think this? produces the best/cleanest code with the most checking possiblel by the compiler.  D If you need to compile this code on a VAX you may have to take a few? of the header files from the AXP and move them to the VAX side,(4 since the VAX header files are a little out of date.   Just my 2 cents.   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:18:32 GMTr From: defdannyd@my-deja.come3 Subject: Re: detached process can't output anythingw) Message-ID: <8qqb71$kfr$1@nnrp1.deja.com>e  A I now have things being output correctly to sys$output by runningeG loginout.exe detached and feeding it a com file that launches my app asiD input. The remaining problem is that my app is outputting to its ownG log file, but the buffer size is enormous and then if I kill the shell,TD whatever is in the buffer does not get flushed which kind of defeatsF the purpose of having the log. Writing all output to sys$output is notB really an option either since my app rotates out the logfiles on aG daily basis. When this occurs, the log file does get flushed, etc., butaF again it's when something else dies (and then writes to my logging appF via UDP) that I need to see the output right away. Currently I have toF wait until the next calendar day (when the log gets rolled) to see it.E If I run it any way but detached (or spawned from a detached shell inS8 this case), it works fine and outputs things to the fileF instantaneously. Also, since I now have sys$output working, I verified? that the app is receiving the messages I send it becasue I echouE everything that should go to the log file into sys$output as well. IseD there any way to turn down this default buffering? I tried using the> switches for runt hat deal with buffering but it didn't changeE anything. Also, I changed the code to open an unbuffered file, but it  didn't seem to matter.   Dan C.  6 In article <8qolbf$9l8$3@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>,&   hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam wrote: >sD > In article <MPG.14399c5bf8d40c2d98977d@news.ma.ultranet.com>, John& Santos <jasantos@ultranet.com> writes:9 > defdannyd@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8qm1kh$n34D $1@nnrp1.deja.com...E > :I am having a problem similar to some I have seen in this group inp thatG > :I have a detached process taht is having trouble logging any output. F > :The bigger issue I am having is that I don't use logicals at all. ID > :specify an output file on the command using the /output qualifier and... > = >   If you have a DECwindows display available somewhere, usee CREATE/TERMINALrG >   or the DECw$Term_Port API call, and pass along the created terminale device< >   as the SYS$OUTPUT device for the under-creation process. > F >   Alternatively, use an unallocated serial line device as the target for1G >   the debugger, setting up the DBG$INPUT and DBG$OUTPUT logical names- toD >   reference the device -- these logical names must be defined in a tablei# >   visible to the created process.! >EB >   The process can now be built with and debugged via the OpenVMS	 debugger.l >eH >   If running a recent version of OpenVMS, you can also use the client- serverE >   debugger -- linking into the application under debug from a localo or aB >   remote OpenVMS client debugger, or from one of the PC debugger clients. >2H >  --------------------------- pure personal opinion ------------------- --------1 >    Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering> hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com >n >e    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.n   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:22:57 GMTv/ From: "John Nixon" <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net>u Subject: Digital Business LinkF Message-ID: <B34A5.4998$s76.370418@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>  1 Have they changed their minds on the fate of DBL?   J The login message directs you to a page that says DBL is in the process ofL being retired in all countries by the end of December, 2000.  It then pointsK you to a page listing alternative access points.  For the United States, it.F tells customers to continue using DBL until notified of another access point.  J Does this mean that they are going to give us an alternative, and not justH take DBL away?  Did somebody actually "listen", or am I reading too much
 into this?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:13:05 +0200s> From: "Jean-Franois Marchal" <jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr>' Subject: Re: elsa configuration problem 2 Message-ID: <8qpf6b$ukl$1@s1.read.news.oleane.net>  
 Thanks ...  G This fixes the refresh rate problem, so my display is a neat rectangle. J I added the definition of decw$server_refresh_rate in private_server_setupG as there are different values applicable to the various monitors in the  cluster.  H Now, the display is not as large as the monitor can display (ie as it isG capable to display with decwindows default values). I trie to change tooC 1600x1280, but I couldn't find a suitable refresh rate for my PCXAVt monitor.   Cheers
 Jean-Franoisl  = "Mark Berryman" <Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com> wrote in message) news:276973814@Mvb.Saic.Com... > Jean-Franois Marchal wrote: > >e- > > Here is a problem I got this week-end ...s9 > > New DS10 with factory installed 7.2-1 and Motif 1.2.5c1 > > Elsa graphic adapter, with 21" Compaq Monitor  > >w > > I addedr& > >     $ DECW$XSIZE_IN_PIXELS == 1280& > >     $ DECW$YSIZE_IN_PIXELS == 1024$ > > in decw$private_server_setup.com > >uC > > Since this modification, display is starting at one inch of the > > > left border of the screen. sounds like the frquency wasn't > > correctly set up.r > > 5 > > I just tryed at my office with a DEC 21" monitor.gC > > The display is now like a barrel, with a larger top, bottom ando > > left margin (not right). > >-B > > What can I do to correct this and usr full 1280x1024 display ? >CF > Do not make these changes in the decw$private_server_setup.com file. >wF > You should have a file called: sys$manager:decw$device_config_gz.com >@G > Make the changes in that file, including the change for refresh rate. D > (How to make the changes is documented in the file.)  Then restart
 > DECwindows.c >y > Mark Berrymang > Mark.Berryman@Mvb.Saic.Com   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 03:16:11 -0400 (EDT)h From: smof@anyment.com Subject: FREE e-book- Message-ID: <0G1H00KCLG6UFF@mx.east.saic.com>S  2 HERE IS THE INF0 YOU REQUESTED. THIS IS NOT SPAM. 5 YOU ARE RECEIVING THIS E-MAIL BECAUSE YOU OR SOMEONE -2 ELSE REQUESTED THIS INF0RMATION WHEN VISITING OUR , SITE AT http://www.smartmailorderformula.com  6 IF YOU WISH TO BE PERMANENTLY REMOVED FROM OUR MAILING LIST, PLEASE GO TO D= http://www.smartmailorderformula.com/subscribe.asp?cmd=remove   5 WE DO NOT SUPPORT THE SENDING OF UNSOLICITED E-MAILS.p  4 WE DO NOT GIVE OUT OR RESELL ANY OF OUR INFORMATION  TO 3rd PARTIES.b  > **************************************************************  @ DID YOU KNOW THAT 70% of the people are not on the INTERNET YET.  C SO why bust a GUT squeezing  into an already tight INTERNET MARKET 10 that is controlled by a few so called "EXPERTS".   FREE e-BOOK REVEALS...  < Why an offline business works like a charm. Time after time.   Why not visit:$ http://www.smartmailorderformula.com   and get your FREE e-BOOK   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 15:39:06 -0000a- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)e; Subject: Re: FW: Oracle Pricing ( was RE: Compaq VMS promo)h/ Message-ID: <st1goqg8kb7gbb@news.supernews.com>   0 jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca (JF Mezei) wrote in" <39C81DA1.34526680@videotron.ca>:    >Dan Allen wrote:a >> rF >>   And people bitch about VMS pricing!  Geez, Oracle has been one of1 >>   the costliest products I've ever dealt with!u >  >Reality check please: >g? >Does Oracle charge more for a VMS platform license than for anv0 >equivalent UNIX or NT system platform licence ? >dH >In other words, if you buy a 8086 server with equivalent CPU power to aF >DS10 box, would Oracle charge more for the DS10 versus the 8086 based >machine ?    F I doubt Oracle would run on an 8086.  It would need more than 640K of I memory and a better operating system than DOS.  A protected memory model   would help too.S   ws   -- t << Boycott Shampoo >>o << Demand REAL POO >>n   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:30:27 GMTt( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>O Subject: Re: How to connect Digital line printer (LP29 or LP37) to HP JetDirect & Message-ID: <G1HJMr.ns@spcuna.spc.edu>  , Arto Tanninen <arto.tanninen@icl.fi> writes:L > I would like to connect Digital LP29 and LP37 to network via HP JetDirect.H > Printers are now connecting to DECserver 250 with cable BC27A. I'm nowN > looking for parallel cable DB25-DB37 or DB25-DB50 or some kind of converter.  K   As others have (repeatedly 8-) pointed out, the native interface on these'H printers is Dataproducts parallel, which is incompatible with Centronics	 parallel.y  J   There were a number of print servers, including the Lantronix EPS2 (but J not the newer EPS2P2) that claimed to run these, but they usually involvedH mods to the printer (the termination on Dataproducts parallel is a *lot*I "stiffer" than for Centronics parallel and the drivers on the server just H aren't up to it (the EPS2 drove the interface directly off the microcon-< troller, while you need 7407-class drivers for Dataproducts.  K   If you were going to do this to your printer, you could just skip the ex-rG pensive print server and build an adapter yourself - all it needs is anuJ inverter to invert the strobe signal and wiring stuff to the correct pins, once you change the terminator.i  G   I actually did this, powering the inverter off the controller card. IrI hooked a DEC LP26 up to an IBM 4331 via a DCA "Irmaprint" controller, re--I placing an IBM 2821 control unit and 1403N1 printer, at a huge cost/space.G savings. The whole "converter" was wrapped up on the printer data cablesF with electrical tape 8-). I think I wrote this up for DECUServe, but I can't find it offhand.     Other, neater solutions are:  G   1) Buy the cards and miscellaneous stuff (cables, mounting plates) to F      convert your printer to Centronics. I did this with another LP26 G      using refurbed parts from Consultex (http://www.consultex-inc.com,       *great* folks!).s  K   2) Buy a Centronics/Dataproducts converter like the CD-1 from Photologic.aH      I have no experience with these, but the company's been around for-9      ever - see http://www3.sympatico.ca/rhoffman/cd1.htm   - 	Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.comZ5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USA    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 10:40:23 GMTZ$ From: Scott Vieth <svieth@wi.rr.com>O Subject: Re: How to connect Digital line printer (LP29 or LP37) to HP JetDirectx) Message-ID: <39D07D64.547C1C40@wi.rr.com>T   David:  E Thanks for the tips on the RapidPrint box.  Say, did you ever replacea? the firmware chip in your RP?  I remember having a problem witheB the RP and Digital sent me an upgraded version of the firmware for< that device.  I don't remember the exact details anymore....A It may have been related to the connection problem you mentioned.a   -Scott   "David J. Dachtera" wrote:   > Scott Vieth wrote: > >aL > > The RapidPrint box works well.  I've used it with the DEC line printers.4 > > It's very similar to setting up a JetDirect box. > H > In my search to replace DECserver250s, we tried the RP-200s. Two major > problems:n >zJ >  1. The printer MUST be on-line when the print job starts, or the RP-200I > will reject the connection request. This can result in a delay of up to I > three minutes or more in actually starting to print when the printer ish= > then put on-line (MULTINET_STREAM_SYMBIONT, Multinet V4.1A,/ > OpenVMS-Alpha V6.2-1H3). > F > 2. The RP-200 has a *VERY* large data buffer. In case of a paper jamH > mid-job, restarting the print job may result in significant data loss.H > The job will restart well after the point in the data stream where the > paper jam actually occurred. >bF > Caveats offered for your evaluation based on my personal experience. > Your mileage may vary. >. > -- > David J. Dachtera5 > dba DJE Systems. > http://www.djesys.com/ >5< > Unofficial Affordable OpenVMS Home Page and Message Board:! > http://www.djesys.com/vms/soho/d >oH > This *IS* an OpenVMS-related newsgroup. So, a certain bias in postings > is to be expected. >aB > Feel free to exercise your rights of free speech and expression. >4H > However, attacks against individual posters, or groups of posters, are > strongly discouraged.g   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:50:09 GMTa From: mark@NOSPAMtechop.co.uk1H Subject: Is the VMS x.25 programming documentation available on the web?0 Message-ID: <39d062d3.4401969@usenet.force9.net>   Hi,d  ; The subject says it all really.  I need to get hold of thisc@ documentation quickly but it takes ages to order it from Compaq.   Cheers,0  
 Mark Williamsd http://www.techop.co.uk    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:49:21 -0400b0 From: arturo saavedra <arturo.saavedra@wcom.com>! Subject: LPS 17/600 DocumentationaC Message-ID: <MOEAJKGGEIMGCCPEPJBHIEPNCDAA.arturo.saavedra@wcom.com>d   HI all..  H Does anybody know where I could get some LPS 17/600 documentation?  I've been& to the Compaq website, but found none.   Thanks..   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2000 09:06:03 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)n2 Subject: Re: More OpenVMS advertising (from the Q)+ Message-ID: <gy2hQ9vYEtzr@eisner.decus.org>o  Z In article <0033000005168827000002L072*@MHS>, WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> writes: > =0AoG >      I just got a postcard in the mail from the Q with the following:-    6 >      It used to be nine to five.  Now it's 24x7x365.   AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH !!!-   	or should I ask:v  * What is magic about 7 years of operation ?   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Sep 00 09:44:09 EDT From: burton@rigel.cc.wmich.edu:2 Subject: Re: More OpenVMS advertising (from the Q)- Message-ID: <tWIzD6lwTuWy@nily.acs.wmich.edu>   g In article <gy2hQ9vYEtzr@eisner.decus.org>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:e\ > In article <0033000005168827000002L072*@MHS>, WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> writes: >> =0AH >>      I just got a postcard in the mail from the Q with the following: >  > 7 >>      It used to be nine to five.  Now it's 24x7x365.l >  > AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH !!!l >  > 	or should I ask:o > , > What is magic about 7 years of operation ? >   C I always thought that ment 365 weeks, which is a little more than 7 . yeras.  It should be either 24x7x52 or 24x365.   Richard    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 10:37:37 -0400"$ From: Brian Gravitt <ncc2@erols.com>2 Subject: RE: More OpenVMS advertising (from the Q)9 Message-ID: <NDBBJFKDOOBIAOGEILEHAEJCCNAA.ncc2@erols.com>(  + In article <gy2hQ9vYEtzr@eisner.decus.org>,t; Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:f< > In article <0033000005168827000002L072*@MHS>, WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> writes:r >> =0AH >>      I just got a postcard in the mail from the Q with the following: >i >l7 >>      It used to be nine to five.  Now it's 24x7x365.$ >T > AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH !!!M >( > 	or should I ask:t >r, > What is magic about 7 years of operation ? >-  D >I always thought that ment 365 weeks, which is a little more than 7/ >yeras.  It should be either 24x7x52 or 24x365.e   >Richard   24X7X365  K 24 Hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a Year.  They go from days to weeks % back to days. It's an American thing.   
 Brian Gravitt,
 IS Manager Nationwide Credit Corp 5503 Cherokee Ave Suite 200d Alexandria, VA 22312 www.nationwidecreditcorp.com
 (703)813-1412    -----Original Message-----B From: burton@rigel.cc.wmich.edu [mailto:burton@rigel.cc.wmich.edu]) Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 9:44 AMr To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comu2 Subject: Re: More OpenVMS advertising (from the Q)    + In article <gy2hQ9vYEtzr@eisner.decus.org>,r; Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:d< > In article <0033000005168827000002L072*@MHS>, WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> writes:y >> =0AH >>      I just got a postcard in the mail from the Q with the following: >w >f7 >>      It used to be nine to five.  Now it's 24x7x365.i >( > AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH !!!e >l > 	or should I ask:  >t, > What is magic about 7 years of operation ? >   C I always thought that ment 365 weeks, which is a little more than 7j. yeras.  It should be either 24x7x52 or 24x365.   RichardD   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Sep 2000 15:12:30 GMT2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)2 Subject: Re: More OpenVMS advertising (from the Q), Message-ID: <8qqecu$1hs@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  O In article <tWIzD6lwTuWy@nily.acs.wmich.edu>, burton@rigel.cc.wmich.edu writes: h >In article <gy2hQ9vYEtzr@eisner.decus.org>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes:] >> In article <0033000005168827000002L072*@MHS>, WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> writes:t8 >>>      It used to be nine to five.  Now it's 24x7x365.- >> What is magic about 7 years of operation ?iD >I always thought that ment 365 weeks, which is a little more than 7/ >years.  It should be either 24x7x52 or 24x365.C >e  J I think "24 x 7 x oo"   (oo = the infinity symbol) would be a nice way to C write it.  Bet the first company that uses that form in advertisingd will try to trademark it.    Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduA? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech p   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:29:04 GMTu8 From: Veli =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=F6rkk=F6?= <korkko@decus.fi>. Subject: Re: No more SYSDUMP.DMP? No more NTP?( Message-ID: <39D0B731.85FFA3D6@decus.fi>  A Actually TCPIP (at least Multinet, TCPware and UCX) will all LOCKoE the ethernet address hence disallowing DECnet to change it. Therefore.# DECnet will not be able to execute 3  " 	[$ MC NCP] SET KNOWN CIRCUITS ALL or( 	[$ MC NCL] enable routing circuit xxxxx  @ if any of those TCPIP stacks have started and active on the same= ethernet controller already. You can check whether a protocolg has controller address lockedj   $ analyze/system SDA> show lan/full  9 The item to watch is "Can change address" line. SCS, LAT,e5 LAST, DTIME, DTSS amongst other will allow controllert address changing on the fly.   _velit     Cthulhu wrote: > 3 > Richard B. Gilbert <DRAGON@compuserve.com> wrote:u > J > >         If TCP/IP starts before DECnet phase 4, DECnet will change theM > > Ethernet address and all sorts of strange things may happen on the TCP/IPn	 > > side.g > - > Ah, that's interesting... I'll try, thanks!U >  >         debatchingly,o >            Cthulhu >  > -- > I >        Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu http://www.rlyeh.it wgah'nagl fhtgan! 3 >                         <cthulhu at rlyeh dot it>-   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 17:10:45 +0200 & From: Bob Marcan <bob.marcan@aster.si> Subject: Re: NTP with UCX 4.2o( Message-ID: <39D0BC75.26560BFF@aster.si>   Paul Sture wrote:  > F > In article <wCby5.640$O7.18456@ozemail.com.au>, Antony Wardle wrote:= > > From: "Antony Wardle" <antony.wardle@nnnoospam.met.co.nz>o > > Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsO! > > Subject: Re: NTP with UCX 4.2 ) > > Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:25:17 +1200- > >-; > > We've got it working here with the same version and 7.1- > > G > > WOn't be upgrading (again) to 5.0a until we can get some assurancescC > > about NFS. That aside, the rest of the machines on 5.0a seem tob" > > be working a whole lot better. > > E > > You need 5.0a if you have any linux boxes that telnet to your vmslA > > hosts. We found that each telnet session would use 30% of the4J > > cpu, therefore 3 telnets, would have your whole cpu all to themselves. > >dL > You should be so lucky. My MV3100 grinds to a halt with one session trying> > to login. Even Monitor at priority 31 doesn't get a look in. > H > Back to UCX unless I can get hold of a copy of 5.0A (or just don't use > telnet...  > >n >  > ___, > Paul Sture
 > Switzerlandi   export TERM=vt100o. and then telnet to VMS will solve the problem.     -- hA -----------------------------------------------------------------?@  Bob Marcan                         email:   bob.marcan@aster.si@  Aster                                tel:    +386 (61) 1894-329@  Nade Ovcakove 1                      fax:    +386 (61) 1894-201@  1000 Ljubljana, Slovenia                    http://www.aster.siA -----------------------------------------------------------------s   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:20:17 +0200 = From: Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com>  Subject: Re: OpenVMS 7.3) Message-ID: <39D06A51.EDC3FBF9@gtech.com>h  * fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote:2 > Fun: It should be called OpenVMS 2000 or 2K !!!!  6 What about VMS 2025 just to show the different level !   :-)    Arne   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:05:27 -0000h- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)e, Subject: Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships/ Message-ID: <st1ia7ci99vr09@news.supernews.com>   3 jjennis@discovery.fuentez.com (Jim Jennis) wrote in   
 -- snip --  E >your enemies via an email message in the right Outlook mailbox! ThistI >will have every VB (Virus Builder) script kiddie on the planet drooling!I >SA >In order to serve on this baby, you'll have to have a backgroundtG >investigation to make sure you can't write VB or VBA scripts (or maybeg4 >then again it'll be a don't ask, don't tell thing).  
 -- snip --  E It's hard to sell the management types emotion-ware.  Now I lose the fD religion, and simply explain that the OpenVMS documentation is well K indexed, extremely accurate, relatively static; it's so solid, in fact, it nK can be printed on paper.  These attributes translate directly into quality sE software development and support.  These things cannot be said about h Microsoft documentation.  H Telephone support is another area where DEQ's response time and quality M vastly exceeds anything available in Redmond.  ECO documenation is another.  hK Software and hardware compatability testing and qualification is another.  @  I These items aren't about religion - they're about engineering - and they 6 count.  G Finally, some writer (Hayes??) from ComputerWorld made an argument for KK hetrogeneous operating systems worldwide about a year ago.  His argument?  MF Just like agricultural crops - a single virus could wipe out the farm.   ws   -- M << Boycott Shampoo >>  << Demand REAL POO >>a   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Sep 2000 16:21:53 GMT) From: leslie@clio.rice.edu (Jerry Leslie)w, Subject: Re: OT:  More MSFT on US Navy ships' Message-ID: <8qqif1$s5s$1@joe.rice.edu>   . Warren Spencer (wspencer@ap.nospam.org) wrote:
 : [ snip ]I : Finally, some writer (Hayes??) from ComputerWorld made an argument for *M : hetrogeneous operating systems worldwide about a year ago.  His argument?  eH : Just like agricultural crops - a single virus could wipe out the farm. :  : ws :   H The US government has had similar concerns about a 100%-Microsoft world, per the attached article.o  J Apologies for posting all of the article, but I never found an archive for articles appearing on      http://www.federaltimes.com/   Federal Times Online  4 --Jerry Leslie     (my opinions are strictly my own)  N ==============================================================================   From:e  +   http://www.federaltimes.com/topstory.html .   Top Officials Seek Alternatives to Microsoft  ;                Top Officials Seek Alternatives to Microsoft>      By Stephen Trimble     FEDERAL TIMES STAFF WRITERe  F        Concerned about security and an excessive reliance on MicrosoftH    software, senior administration officials plan to diversify the types=    of operating systems software purchased by the government.n  E        The National Security Council soon will create a new office too=    assess the ways federal agencies could make greater use ofuG    open-source, or nonproprietary, software that is freely available tot,    anyone and has codes that are not secret.  @        "One of the areas we are very interested in looking at isG    open-source code," a senior White House official told Federal Times.   C        The effort ultimately could affect the types of software thetE    government purchases for network servers and desktop applications.   D        The government will buy $2 billion worth of software in 2000,H    according to Federal Sources Inc., of Fairfax, Va., a market research    company.   H        The initial purpose of the new software assessment office will beG    to identify agencies and programs that will be candidates for trialsaH    of open source software, said the White House official, who asked not    to be identified.  H        The General Services Administration and the National Institute ofI    Standards and Technology also are involved in creating the office. Itsn#    location still is to be decided.   A        The new office will assess the costs and benefits of using,H    open-source software to operate many government computers. Also to beC    determined are the cost and technical obstacles to communicationdH    between systems using open-source and the proprietary software now in    use.e  D        The White House official declined to say how extensive is theG    administration's plan to diversify its reliance on operating systems I    software. A chief reason for the effort, according to advocates, is tolF    address concerns that Microsoft operating systems are vulnerable toH    malicious computer viruses and hacker attacks. This is partly becauseI    the Microsoft software is proprietary and security vulnerabilities are E    more difficult to find and correct, said Przemek Klosowski, a NISTMD    physicist and leader of the Washington, D.C., Linux User's Group.  F        "Government should be vendor-neutral, and the government shouldA    not formulate IT requirements that say only a single vendor is'    applicable," Klosowski said.a  C        Klosowski said Linux is used on a limited basis for computersF    research applications at Energy Department laboratories, NASA, NIST    and the Defense Department.  H        "I don't know of any large government Linux contracts," he added.  D        Another purpose of adopting different types of software is toH    diversify the government's inventory of operating systems, so not allB    are vulnerable to the same viruses and attacks, the White House    official said.r  I        Linux, an open-source operating system similar in functionality to @    Microsoft Windows, is being given serious consideration as an@    alternative for government computer users, the official said.  F        Access to the Linux source code "gives us some confidence," theI    White House official said, adding that it simplifies patching securityr*    breeches and correcting routine errors.  D        Created by a Finnish graduate student named Linus Torvalls inI    1991, Linux's open code is relentlessly scrutinized and tested by tensfG    of thousands of systems analysts worldwide, who constantly recommendh     improvements, Klosowski said.  G        As a result, Linux boasts a robust code that rarely malfunctions C    and is extremely difficult for hackers to crack, Klosowski said.w  D        Microsoft, on the other hand, keeps its code secret and makes7    upgrades to its products on a yearly basis, he said.   C        Microsoft software products have been the target of numerousb    computer viruses.  H        One of the best known was the Melissa virus that struck thousandsC    of government and nongovernment computers in March by exploitingrI    vulnerabilities in Microsoft Word 97 and Microsoft Word 2000. In June,BH    another virus called ExploreZip targeted vulnerabilities in Microsoft)    Windows 95, Windows 98 and Windows NT.p  E        Microsoft officials argue their software products meet federala    security standards.  F        Microsoft's main server software, Microsoft Windows NT 3.5, forF    instance, is certified under the federal security standard known asC    Federal Information Processing Standard 140-1, said Quazi Zaman,D?    advanced technology manager for Microsoft Federal Systems offF    Washington, D.C. The newest version of Microsoft's server operatingG    system, called Microsoft Windows NT 4.0, is undergoing certificationeD    and is expected to be certified "in the next three months," Zaman    said.  I        Zaman added that Microsoft has been considering making some of itsa/    software products open source for two years.d  H        "Open source is a very innovative way to develop software," ZamanH    said. "The issue is how much of our own code we should put out in the    open source environment."  H        Zaman added that Microsoft likely would be willing to provide theI    National Security Council with its code for security inspections if ituF    is for national security purposes. So far, he said, the NSC has not8    asked for access to any of Microsoft's software code.  H        Zaman argued that government agencies are not excessively reliantG    on Microsoft products, adding that other software suppliers, namely, A    database software suppliers, have larger shares of the federal.    software market.   B        The project to increase the government's use of open-source?    operating systems likely will present formidable challenges.-  F        The government already relies extensively on Microsoft productsF    for desktop and, increasingly, server applications. Thus, there areH    sure to be communications problems between systems that use different>    software, said John Gilligan, the Energy Department's chief    information officer.   B        The concept also appears to run counter to the government'sE    3-year-old effort to concentrate on buying commercial, easy-to-useR6    software, said Payton Smith of Federal Sources Inc.  C        Regardless of security concerns, Smith added, a multitude ofaG    software systems within an agency often can lead to interoperability:    problems.  G        "The more variations you have in the software, the more problems 8    and the more costs you're going to have," Smith said.  I        The White House official acknowledged that concerns over costs and7F    interoperability issues must be settled for the project to succeed.  G        "That's exactly the issues we're looking at," the official said. 9    "Both costs and interoperability are critical issues."5  1    Copyright  1999 Army Times Publishing CompanyuD    Use of this site signifies your agreement to the Terms of Service    (updated May 22, 1998).   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 09:23:25 GMT5% From: A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig)-" Subject: OT: Digital interference.2 Message-ID: <39d0672a.1709643317@news.newsguy.com>  A On 25 Sep 2000 15:33:33 -0500, malmberg@eisner.decus.org (John E.g Malmberg) wrote:     >EL >A malfunctioning receiving amplifier with improper shielding can mix with aD >commercial broadcasting signal to produce any number of interesting
 >frequencies.6 >7P >Again, if you hit the right frequency with the right power, it can be just like >a tuning fork on glass.  B As a kid in Dundee, Scotland I recall that AM and FM radio and VHFE television (but not UHF) were blasted with enormous nose bursts every F fifteen minutes or so. In the case of FM radio completely obliteratingF the signal. I know many people reported this to the UK Post Office who@ monitored this. They reported that these bursts lasting around 5D seconds were caused by substation electrical switching equipment andB nothing could be done about it. Numerous electrical engineers have told me this is nonsense.   F Recently I came across a tape from around 1975 of a radio chart show I= recorded and it clearly contains the noise bursts which I now D recognise as digital. Since that time it has emerged that a group ofF antennas on a hill overlooking Dundee (Craig Owl) belong to the US NSAB and possibly one of the functions was connected with the Edzell USD base. I do wonder if anyone could analyse the recording or otherwiseD suggest what might really have been going on. A number of commercial/ tv and radio transmitters were located near by.g  E Wherever the source came from it caused tremendous disturbance acrossQE most of the commercial broadcast spectrum over a radius of at least 5i miles for many years.A  D Anybody any clue what it migyt have been? Submarine comms perhaps? A( low frequency carrier pulsed on and off?   --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:36:45 -0000 - From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)-+ Subject: Re: OT: More MSFT on US Navy ships0/ Message-ID: <st1k4tieb3dv11@news.supernews.com>M  I If the US Navy is going to use NT on their ships, they'd better enlist a cF seaman whose name is Mr. Protection Fault, and promote him to General  immediately.   ws   -- d << Boycott Shampoo >>  << Demand REAL POO >>c   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 10:14:41 +0100 1 From: "Roger Woodward" <rogerw@autogrouper.co.uk>W8 Subject: Re: Please help a poorly Microvax 3100 - update+ Message-ID: <OUZz5.15590$Cl1.373062@stones>    My machine must be... 8 >         KA41-D for the MicroVAX 3100 Model 10e and 20eL this is the closest, I thought it said KA41-O but since nothing at all comes" out now I must have been mistaken.  F > :The hyroglyphics now start in the middle of the self test (Ive just turnedK > :it on again, it started waffling after ...C...B) so I am rather thinkingi, > :that something internally is going wrong. >,A >   Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote in message-4 >   news:8qe0sv$nmr$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com...J >   This could easily be a fault with terminal or it might just be a faultI >   with the MicroVAX system.  Hard to say.  I'd swap the terminal first,s; >   since that's easier to deal with, and cheaper to fix...iI Now I get nothing at all. Now paranioa rather than rationality has set inh& I'm beginning to doubt that I have theF right baud rates etc set up. Ive checked the Wyse terminal against theI serial port on my pc and both talk to each other happily (Ive got a brando new MMJ cable too).cI The connection is at 9600 baud, Data 8/1/none,Handshake Xon/Xoff, and I'ms, pretty sure this is the way its always been.  F Failing that I think it must be time to get out the wallet and have it	 serviced.m   Cheers Roger Woodward   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 00:38:28 -0700 1 From: Vance Haemmerle <vance@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US>  Subject: Re: Press Release3 Message-ID: <39CFF004.4FF2A1B0@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.US>   $ Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: > >h: > >I think I'm getting it now.  Unix is VMS without balls? >  > No.  Just an O/S without.U  8   That's why one of the machines where I work is called  eunuchs!   -- Vance Haemmerlef vance@toyvax.Tucson.AZ.USi   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 10:05:02 GMT-% From: A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig)a Subject: Re: Press Release2 Message-ID: <39d06bb6.1710806970@news.newsguy.com>  E On Mon, 25 Sep 2000 18:25:33 +0100, steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:    >S/ >So NT Systems people don't play for long then?6  E Well with the wonderfully designed roving desktops and profiles on NT.F it's not uncommon  to find NT copying 100MB across the network on user+ login/out. here. Plenty of time to waste :(      --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2000 17:28:19 +0200* From: eplan@kapsch.net (Peter LANGSTOEGER), Subject: Re: remote tailing of file with UCX* Message-ID: <39d0c093$1@news.kapsch.co.at>  J In article <8qftcq$22o$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, tony_barratt@my-deja.com writes:A >I've got a requirement to remotely tail a log file on a VMS box.oH >However as I am a refugee from unixland, I'm can't quite figure out why >it doesn't work.y >  >CMS03> ty hnm1.coms >$!.0 >$ ty/cont/tail=20  dsa0:[oracle7.hnm]health.log >$!    Omit the /CONTINOUSr   --  < Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER           Tel.    +43 1 81111-2651; Network and OpenVMS system manager  Fax.    +43 1 81111-888 < <<< KAPSCH AG  Wagenseilgasse 1     E-mail  eplan@kapsch.netH A-1121 VIENNA  AUSTRIA              "I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist"N "VMS is today what Microsoft wants Windows NT V8.0 to be!" Compaq, 22-Sep-1998   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 07:53:02 +0200 0 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Easynet.fr>. Subject: Re: restart an Alpha ETN42-CA machine) Message-ID: <39D039BD.27DE419@Easynet.fr>b   "John E. Malmberg" wrote:   P > Opening up your case would probably be the next step so that you can determineN > what you have exactly.  If it is indeed a PICMG SBC based system, one of theK > things to try searching for on the Compaq Web sites is "Modular Computing: > Component"  D The board is a DEC C3MLZ1 94V0, the chip is a wonderful 266Mhz Alpha chip in its 287 type socket.  * let me read Hoff's answer and I'm back :-)   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:00:26 +0200-0 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Easynet.fr>. Subject: Re: restart an Alpha ETN42-CA machine* Message-ID: <39D03B79.55DC7631@Easynet.fr>   Hoff Hoffman wrote:g >../.. 1> > :(what is is, btw, a real Alpha or a PC with an ALPHA chip?) > F >   The 21066 microprocessor used in the ETN42-CA was intended to be aE >   lower-cost and more highly integrated version of the 21064 seriesrD >   microprocessor, but it is as much a real Alpha microprocessor as9 >   any other.  Just a rather more rarely seen example...t   Thank you Hoff.'A Mine says (hand written): 21066 (black ink written), then 166 MhzaF (pencil), then 2/98 (ink), on the left side when looking at the fan in3 front of me, then 266Mhz in big blue permanent ink.    Looks like it was a prototype.   D.   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:22:02 +0000 (UTC) ' From: Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.jyu.fi>s. Subject: Re: restart an Alpha ETN42-CA machine, Message-ID: <8qpmba$8g8$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>  3 Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote:e ...n@ >   OpenVMS does not officially support the ETN42-CA platform.    1 >   OpenVMS may or may not work on this platform.c  J >   I have no idea if OpenVMS has even a chance of bootstrapping, but the I >   21066 Alpha microprocessor was used in the Tadpole ALPHAbook, in the u' >   Multia, and in the AXPpci33 widget.a  E ETN42-CA seems to be based on a version of AXPpci33 board: AXPpci33S.rB I'd say good chance that it will run VMS. See FAQ what's needed ifF VSM isn't installed already.                                       /OK   ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 10:39:28 +0000 (UTC)-' From: Osmo Kujala <kujala@tukki.jyu.fi>6. Subject: Re: restart an Alpha ETN42-CA machine, Message-ID: <8qpud0$dpr$1@mordred.cc.jyu.fi>  1 Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@easynet.fr> wrote:a  F > The board is a DEC C3MLZ1 94V0, the chip is a wonderful 266Mhz Alpha > chip in its 287 type socket.  F I'd guess that's not the board model number. If you can see other sideB of board there should be paper sticker with number something like: 54-23310-05.H See http://www.itsinfonet.com/apci33.htm . Does it look like your board?   /OKr   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:41:15 +0200o0 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Easynet.fr>. Subject: Re: restart an Alpha ETN42-CA machine* Message-ID: <39D0B58A.C6D7788E@Easynet.fr>   Osmo Kujala wrote:  D > I'd say good chance that it will run VMS. See FAQ what's needed if  > VSM isn't installed already.    @ Actually I saw two of these machines and one was running OpenVMS/ something and the other RedHat Linux something.t   D.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:40:09 +0200 0 From: Didier Morandi <Didier.Morandi@Easynet.fr>. Subject: Re: restart an Alpha ETN42-CA machine* Message-ID: <39D0B548.3C78E501@Easynet.fr>   Osmo Kujala wrote: >  > 54-23310-05.   Well done: 54-23310-07 ! better luck next time?   D.   (ps: so, now???)   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:43:16 -0500 * From: WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov>5 Subject: Re[2]: More OpenVMS advertising (from the Q)h- Message-ID: <0033000005230611000002L012*@MHS>o  H =0AIn article <tWIzD6lwTuWy@nily.acs.wmich.edu>, burton@rigel.cc.wmich.= edu writes: H >In article <gy2hQ9vYEtzr@eisner.decus.org>, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org= .nospam H (Larry Kilgallen) writes: >> In article <0033000005168827000002L072*@MH= S>, H WILLIAM WEBB <WWEBB1@email.usps.gov> writes: >>>      It used to be nin= e to five.  Now it's 24x7x365. - >> What is magic about 7 years of operation ?oD >I always thought that ment 365 weeks, which is a little more than 7/ >years.  It should be either 24x7x52 or 24x365.n >f  H I think "24 x 7 x oo"   (oo =3D the infinity symbol) would be a nice wa= y toC write it.  Bet the first company that uses that form in advertisinga will try to trademark it.e   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edut> Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech  *      Hey, guys, at least they're trying...        WWWebb=   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 02:05:34 -0400,- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>n. Subject: Set proc/SUSP /RESUME weird behaviour, Message-ID: <39D03CA7.90E6A56D@videotron.ca>  & So I try to SET PROC/SUSP of a process  ? The user which issues the command has WORLD privilege and does:u   SET PROC/ID=2040000C/SUSPo  	 and laters   SET PROC/ID=2040000C/RESUMEt  G I never get a complaint from VMS and the command completes succesfully. N However, *sometimes*, the process does not change state. (VAX-VMS 7.2). SecondK invocation of the command (with the up-arrow to recall it after a SHOW SYS)k
 will work.  J The target process is usually in HIB status (with a $HIBER), with a SETIMRT entry set to eventually  deliver an AST (which will do the $WAKE if felt necessary).    H What could cause this weird , unpredicatble and semingly random SET PROCE "failure" and how come VMS doesn't report anything at the DCL level ?d  1 I'd say this happens perhaps one out of 10 times.n   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Sep 2000 06:38:04 GMT1 From: JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones)s2 Subject: Re: Set proc/SUSP /RESUME weird behaviour: Message-ID: <8qpg8c$5vp$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  , In message <39D03CA7.90E6A56D@videotron.ca>,1   JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:d >SET PROC/ID=2040000C/SUSP >a
 >and later >v >SET PROC/ID=2040000C/RESUME > H >I never get a complaint from VMS and the command completes succesfully.O >However, *sometimes*, the process does not change state. (VAX-VMS 7.2). SecondeL >invocation of the command (with the up-arrow to recall it after a SHOW SYS) >will work.n    H I imagine somehow you are managing to issue a resume when the process isI not suspended (e.g. multiple processes are issuing these commands).  WhentF that happens, the 'resume pending' bit is set in the process status soH the next suspend request will not suspend the process (but it will clear the resume pending).    < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929- Ohio State University        |      Internet:uL 140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  + Disclaimer: Dogs can't tell it's not bacon.x   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:00:06 -0400t, From: Jeff Schreiber <schreiber@process.com>  Subject: RE: Sockets and Fortran. Message-ID: <009F0B31.64C036B9.13@process.com>  1 On Fri, 22 Sep 2000 dejamalc@my-deja.com writes: b > A >We are using TCPWare on our Vaxes to get IP connectivity, I havevG >managed to write a simple socket program in 'C' but my Fortran is muchi9 >better than my 'C' and I would like to use this instead.d > F >Does anyone know of an example of Socket programming in Fortran which# >would work on a Vax with TCPWare ?  >W  H     If you look in the TCPWARE_ROOT:[TCPWARE.EXAMPLES] directory, there 2     should be a TCPSAMPLE.FOR and a UDPSAMPLE.FOR.  F     It uses QIOs to the TCP and UDP driver, but you can just as easilyK     do it to the BG driver. [assigns to _BG0: rather than _TCP0: or _UDP0:]   N     You can probably use BSD style socket calls as well [socket, bind, listen,N     accept] by converting the C calls you find in the documentation to fortranC     calls, and then linking with sys$share:tcpware_socklib_shr.exe.i  J     For help on the QIO calls, I'd recommend you check out the slides fromM     our DECUS TCP/IP Programming seminar.  I think the latest version is thisa     one:  E         ftp://ftp.process.com/decus/ireland_99/tcp_ip_programming.pptr  G     Also in that directory there are a couple text files that are oldero4     versions of the examples that are in the slides.  1                                             -Jeffe   --/ Jeff Schreiber,            Process Software LLCe1 schreiber@mx.process.com   http://www.process.comu,       TCPware & MultiNet: Stronger than Ever   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 10:29:56 -0700C& From: bill robertson <wcr@pacbell.net>: Subject: Re: Son of BUT... (Re: Why are these files open?)+ Message-ID: <39D0DD14.4DEB4AD0@pacbell.net>   a I say that because there's such a gap between version numbers, and I know the system was rebooteds, shortly after I got here, a few months back.  _ However, the next time we reboot, you can be sure this will be one of the first things I check.sP Probably not any time soon, though, since gratuitous reboots are not encouraged.  " Thanks again for your persistence.   -billr   bill robertson wrote:y   > bill robertson wrote:, >e2 > > So, how do I get rid of those INSTALL entries? >yT > I received a number of posts in response to this, which I'll attempt to summarize: > : > "David J. Dachtera" <djesys.nospam@earthlink.net> writesK > | "That I know of, the only way to clear these out is gonna be a reboot."y > W > I can't say with absolute certainty, but I believe, that the system has been rebooted 9 > several times since these version 1 files were present.o > b >  "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net>: "Use the INSTALL utility to list out the |files.  Note thec > exact syntax for the entry for MENU_SIGNON.EXE including the |angle brackets that are surrounding  > the directory. > | > > |$install remove disk$dev1:<RLS_MTS_45.EXE>menu_signon.exe;1 > |nN > |The device, the directory in the same angle brackets as the install utility@ > |reports, and the exact version number seem to be significant. >  > ando >c1 >  Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> says D > |Try using INSTALL REMOVE to get rid of the reference to the file. >i	 > Well...r% > (DEL and REMOVE w/ version numbers)(; > $ install del disk$dev1:<rls_mts_45.exe>menu_signon.exe;1aW > %INSTALL-E-OPENIN, error opening DISK$DEV1:<RLS_MTS_45.EXE>MENU_SIGNON.EXE;1 as inputD > -RMS-E-FNF, file not foundY > %INSTALL-W-FAIL, failed to REMOVE entry for DISK$DEV1:<RLS_MTS_45.EXE>MENU_SIGNON.EXE;1r; > -INSTALL-E-ILLFILEVER, file version numbers not permittedn> > $ install remove disk$dev1:<rls_mts_45.exe>menu_signon.exe;1W > %INSTALL-E-OPENIN, error opening DISK$DEV1:<RLS_MTS_45.EXE>MENU_SIGNON.EXE;1 as input  > -RMS-E-FNF, file not foundY > %INSTALL-W-FAIL, failed to REMOVE entry for DISK$DEV1:<RLS_MTS_45.EXE>MENU_SIGNON.EXE;1 ; > -INSTALL-E-ILLFILEVER, file version numbers not permittedi >n > (Same w/out version numbers)9 > $ install del disk$dev1:<rls_mts_45.exe>menu_signon.exe W > %INSTALL-W-FAIL, failed to REMOVE entry for DISK$DEV1:<RLS_MTS_45.EXE>MENU_SIGNON.EXE 1 > -INSTALL-E-NOKFEFND, Known File Entry not founde< > $ install remove disk$dev1:<rls_mts_45.exe>menu_signon.exeW > %INSTALL-W-FAIL, failed to REMOVE entry for DISK$DEV1:<RLS_MTS_45.EXE>MENU_SIGNON.EXEe1 > -INSTALL-E-NOKFEFND, Known File Entry not found  >e8 > Lastly, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writesH > |Are you SURE the disk is not mounted on another cluster member, which  > |also has the image installed? >m" > System is not part of a cluster. >n] > Let me thank you all again for your willingness to help.  Fortunately, the situation is notiY > causing any harm, so this is sort of an exercise.  I remain willing to try (almost) anyn > suggestions. >g > -billm   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 10:35:33 -0700i& From: bill robertson <wcr@pacbell.net>: Subject: Re: Son of BUT... (Re: Why are these files open?)+ Message-ID: <39D0DE65.22205FBE@pacbell.net>   Z It's disappeared off my reader tree, so I can't quote it here, but one of the first thingsT I did was to create a version 1, (current version is 17), INSTALL REPLACE (under theU assumption that some part of INSTALL still believed the file was installed), and then  INSTALL DELETE.m  
 No change.   JF Mezei wrote:R   > bill robertson wrote: = > > $ install del disk$dev1:<rls_mts_45.exe>menu_signon.exe;1tY > > %INSTALL-E-OPENIN, error opening DISK$DEV1:<RLS_MTS_45.EXE>MENU_SIGNON.EXE;1 as inputs > > -RMS-E-FNF, file not found >h > how about: >m5 > $create disk$dev1:<rls_mts_45.exe>menu_signon.exe;1m= > $install delete disk$dev1:<rls_mts_45.exe>menu_signon.exe;1, >  > ?0   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:36:54 GMTu( From: Terry Kennedy <terry@gate.tmk.com>% Subject: Re: Spring 2000 VMS sigtapesC& Message-ID: <G1HJxI.u7@spcuna.spc.edu>  2 Zane H. Healy <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> writes:N > Is there any kind of index to all the software available on the sigtapes?  IK > know that DECUS back in the PDP-11 days used to publish little books thatnK > were basically a catalogue of available software.  Is there anything likefJ > this for VMS software (preferably available on the web with links to the > software)?  J   Well, http://www.tmk.com/ftp/0-readme.index is an index of everything onH the tmk.com ftp/web server. It's rebuilt nightly at 2 AM, though the newJ copy is only posted if something changes. That's just a directory listing, though.H  K   Each of the sigtape areas on my server contains the doc that shipped withhI the sigtape. For example, the concatenated readme's for all of the Springn 2000 material can be found at:D http://www.tmk.com/ftp/decus-sig-tapes/vlt00a/00avmslt/aaareadme.00a  - 	Terry Kennedy             http://www.tmk.comn5         terry@tmk.com             Jersey City, NJ USAr   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:49:58 +0000a$ From: Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk# Subject: Re: SRAM Corruption Thread / Message-ID: <00256966.0040BDB4.00@quegw01.btyp>h  = Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  VSSG, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza-    L The datacentres here have signs outside forbidding entry with mobile phones,O which may be considered over the top, but we do have some Sun boxes in there...3   ;^D.   Steve Spires VMS System Manager BT/Yellow Pagesr        A Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> on 25/09/2000 05:00:26 PM     To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages)eP From:      Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk>, 25 September 2000, 5:00 p.m.   Re: SRAM Corruption Thread             "John E. Malmberg" wrote:M  K >  And that same sheilding also protects the electronics on the inside to a- greatdP > degree.  I do not know if the manufacturers of datacenter class computers testP > their systems against being interfered by cell phone and other UHF / MicrowaveO > repeaters.  Let alone all of the other types of transmitters that are around.n >u  O An ex-DEC now-Compaq engineer I've known for over a decade told me he only evert hadt  H problems with the very early analogue phones, he is in and out of serverG rooms all day taking calls on his mobile and never had an issue with an)& unexpected crash with a digital phone.  I Of course, if you are REALLY paranoid, you force people to turn off their1K mobiles before entering the server room, but this is a real PITA especiallyoJ if you have a crisis that requires console interaction and no phone in the
 machine room.'   --6 Tim Llewellyn, OpenVMS Infrastructure, Remarcs Project0 MedAS at the BBC, Whiteladies Road, Bristol, UK.A Email tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk. Home tim.llewellyn@cableinet.co.ukA  A I speak for myself only and my views in no way represent those oft MedAS or the BBC.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 13:05:32 +0100n/ From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>a# Subject: re: SRAM Corruption Threado7 Message-ID: <009F0B42.EAADDFBD.22@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>2   > [ > >In article <39CCF446.E14021C6@bellatlantic.net>, hg/jb <shsrms@bellatlantic.net> writes:rI > >> Exactly my thought!  there had been some work on this in years past,AK > >> and some speculation that the chip densities could show up the effectso > >> of normal particle hits.w > >pM > >   I don't believe it.  I didn't believe it when DEC Field Service blamed fG > >   cosmic radiation for their VAX 8000 series memory problems, and Ih > >   don't believe it now.e > >"K > >   Why?  Because I did the calculation back when I was a grad student iniN > >   physics using cosmic rays as a test source for a detector I was buildingJ > >   and my SEL 32/55 reminded me of a detector.  (The memory boards were2 > >   mounted horizontally in an 19 inch chassis.) > >rH > >   We're still several orders of magnitude away from memory densitiesK > >   that should show cosmic ray problems, provided your system is located($ > >   near the surface of the earth.  M This all depends on how you define "problems" and whether your memory system n has ECC, Parity or no checking.d  J I remember a figure something like one bit-error per system per fortnight.J Now if you don't have even parity, there's a small but nonzero chance thatH bit is something truly vital like the allocation bitmap on a disk drive;J get it wrong and file-corruption likely follows. Other one-bit-to-disaster scenarios are easy to imagine.  I Parity will let your system crash rather than continue with bad data. ECC H will let it run and just note the error. Good servers have ECC main RAM,E but I don't know about the big SRAM caches and on-die caches that aresH widespread these days. ECC would seem unlikely. Parity? (If yes, you can@ recover by voiding the cache entry and refreshing from main RAM)   > E > though, I once did see 7 systems (at one site) take soft/corrected r4 > memory errors all at the same time.  (late 1980's) > F > One wonders what the ultimate cause was; the stuff of urban legends. >   K One one occasion ca. 1990 I noticed a group of four ECC (corrected) errors  L close to simultaneously, on three different computers spread over 100 yards.H Also closely correlated in time, a datacomms box decided that control/P H (hex 10) should become control/@ (00, a one-bit error, which took me the/ best part of two days to get to the bottom of).-  F A cosmic-ray particle shower seemed the most likely explanation to me.. I've never observed anything like this again.     
 		Nigel ArnotA- 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                   j  7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."a   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2000 09:35:44 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)# Subject: Re: SRAM Corruption Thread.+ Message-ID: <xYaZIKodI6R4@eisner.decus.org>o  Y In article <39CF7F34.2D9BB2C6@bbc.co.uk>, Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes:/ > L > Yup, but there's always a slim chance that something highly energetic from- > the tail of the distribution hits your RAM.r  E  In statistical mechanics we defined "never" as odds so slim that thelA  chance of a single event in the entire life time of the universe   is much less than one.'  @  Using this definition I'm satisified that such an occurance hasA  never happened in an ordinary computer installation (spacecraft,nE  nuclear plant control systems, particle accelerator control systems,mG  and such excluded), without compensating for the history of electronic0@  computers being much shorter than the lifetime of the universe.  A  But then if you were walking through the computer room with your4F  antique radium painted watch maybe you should have stood further from	  the Sun.3   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = Hubble Space Telescope Payload  | Federal Sector, Civil GroupVE  Flight Software Team           | please remove ".aspm" when replyingM   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2000 09:43:01 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)# Subject: re: SRAM Corruption Threads+ Message-ID: <nCQxvt9I26Mp@eisner.decus.org>r  i In article <009F0B42.EAADDFBD.22@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>, Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> writes: O > This all depends on how you define "problems" and whether your memory system 7! > has ECC, Parity or no checking.h  *   By "problem" I mean any single bit flip.  I   OBTW, my hardware experts tell me that ECC errors are more often due to2E   failure of the ECC circuits than the bits they protect.  That is inrC   most cases single bit errors detected in error correcting RAM areiF   false positives, the actuall bits having been read correctly but the*   ECC circuit miss processing the signals.  C   This sort of failure can readily be induced by power fluctuationsy@   and other earthly stuff which may be seen by multiple systems.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences CorporationD= Hubble Space Telescope Payload  | Federal Sector, Civil Group E  Flight Software Team           | please remove ".aspm" when replyingn   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 10:28:04 GMT0% From: A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig)r' Subject: Re: Suggested VMS new feature!l2 Message-ID: <39d077c3.1713892346@news.newsguy.com>  @ On 25 Sep 2000 10:31:32 -0500, Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) wrote:  [ >In article <39cf2ae0.1628671595@news.newsguy.com>, A.Greig@virgin.net (Alan Greig) writes:tC >> On Mon, 25 Sep 2000 00:08:13 GMT, system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Briane" >> Schenkenberger, VAXman-) wrote: >> d >> eK >>>The UNDELETE request seems to come from the single-use PeeCee mindset.  oJ >>>What do you do if one morning all the users on the system login and, inK >>>a pre-coffee stupor, delete their LOGIN.COM file and request the operatopK >>>to restore it?  Which LOGIN.COM of several hundred in the WASTEBASKET doc >>>you restore and to whom???i >> hG >> That's why I woudn't  have a wastebasket folder but rather just flagmF >> the file for delete and have them hidden to normal file operations.@ >> The user could then just issus the hypothetical VMS command $9 >> DIR/DELETED command and $ UNDELETE the approprate one.i >fP >And if a new file with that name and version had been created in the meantime ?  D Do what TOPS-20 did - new file gets created with next version numberB irrespective of the deleted status  if version number defaulted. IC cannot recall if an attempt to create a file with matching name andc> version resulted in a "file already exists error" or explictlyE overwrote the deleted file. In any new implementation this could be ae process wide option.  D Total backwards compatabilty could always be achieved by setting theC auto expunge option. Possibly a good idea for things like DCL which 9 creates a lot of scratch files and might always expect ton create/delete vesrion 1. --
 Alan Greig   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 00:34:08 -0500 + From: "Main, Kerry" <Kerry.Main@compaq.com>c* Subject: RE: Sun Hardware problems persistJ Message-ID: <910612C07BCAD1119AF40000F86AF0D80528481E@kaoexc4.kao.dec.com>  	 Andrew ..e  I Why do you keep harping on the 22 hour outage as if it was the only one? 6  G Although it may have been the longest, the site was in the press almost H monthly during the last 12-18 months (I do not feel it is appropriate to post all of the urls).  @ All one has to do is read the announcement board for the latest:& http://www2.ebay.com/aw/announce.shtml   09/23/00H "This morning between 08:30 and 10:06 PDT the Feedback forum and My eBay account statusG information were unavailable due to a hardware failure. My eBay accountrH status information was again unavailable from 13:45 to 13:55 PDT and theG feedback forum was unavailable from 13:45 to 14:05 PDT while additionaloI maintenance was performed on both systems. Account status access remained K intermittent until 15:15 PDT while the fix propagated through our systems."   A Is is Sun related? Don't know. Does anyone know what system theseo applications run on?  I >>> It may well have been configuration issues that caused the cluster tohD hang, however given that the general concensus on this group is thatI clusters don't hang I am sure you can see that this unexpected outage was: very damaging to Compaq.>>>>  G Andrew, as I stated in my previous reply, no vendor can state they havet' never had HW or SW or config problems. e  K The issue is how often do they have them and what approach does that vendor 4 take in resolving those problems when they do occur.  J Now, you keep referencing the issues at eTrade that was 18 months ago (FebL 99). Any reason why you keep hitting on this one incident? That was a config issue at one site.  I Is it perhaps to try and deflect this threads topic of conversation? Thisc3 cache issue is a Engineering problem at many sites.    Regards,  
 Kerry Main Senior Consultant,
 Compaq Canadac Professional Services  Voice : 613-592-4660 FAX   : 819-772-7036 Email : kerry.main@compaq.com        -----Original Message-----7 From: andrew harrison [mailto:andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com]l) Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 10:04 AMb To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comu* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist     "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > Andrew, Andrew ..r > ( > Feeling a bit warm these days are we ? >  > :-)e >  > re: your quote on eTrade ..  > I > >>> But eTrade did not have one outage associated with this issue, they  hada* > a number each of which lasted hours. >>> > @ > Yep, a long time ago (Feb 99 timeframe) they went through some
 configurationtK > issues over the total space of about 4-5 days. No question. No vendor canb, > say they have NEVER had hardware problems. > A No Kerry that is not true, the eTrade cluster hung on a number of"
 occasions,B this may or may not have been caused by configuration issues. The C actual cause was rumoured to be a Compaq engineer making a mistake uB upgrading the cluster and the cluster getting wedged. But this was@ only rumour. What is not disputed is that the cluster hung when  it apparently should not have.  B It may well have been configuration issues that caused the clusterH to hang, however given that the general concensus on this group is that > clusters don't hang I am sure you can see that this unexpected# outage was very damaging to Compaq.      > Nope.  > H > Are a good deal of them ? Don't know, but press articles do offer some veryJ > interesting insight. As I recall, a number of the posted articles quotedJ > eBay spokespeople as stating cpu hardware or database server issues were theI
 > problem. > = How do you know, you see the whole point about the whole eBay.? FUD storm is that the people who accused Sun of being the causee< of eBays problems have done so without any facts to back up ? their case. In the only case where any details have emerged theE8 famous 22 hour outage Sun was shown not to be at fault.   > People like you say eBay has had an outage, eBay runs on Sun's) therefore the Sun's caused eBays outage. L  @ This line of reasoning ignores the fact that a significant part D of eBays infrastructure does not run on Sun's, Web, CGI etc servers @ are actually hosted on NT and that in a very complex e-Commerce A stack like eBays there are lots of other possibilities that could   cause them to lose their system.  ; And the Press articles do not offer an interesting insight e; unless you consider publishing articles that turned out to X< be totally factually incorrect as being somehow insightfull.  ; I don't need to remind you that all the articles published y< at the time of the 22 hour outage which suggested that there: was some Sun supplied software of hardware problem at the 8 root of the failure were incorrect, so much for insight.  J > Anyway, this subject of the cache issues has likely started to bore many
 > readers. > G > The bottom line is that, imho, when faced with hardware (or software)  issuesG > that impact many Customers, it is the responsibility of the vendor to  admit 8 > it with a formal statement, then fix it, then move on. > D So will Compaq admit that eTrade's outage was caused by Compaq ????? ????????   regardsd Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architectu   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 15:32:41 +0100(0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist* Message-ID: <39D0B389.51B5C2DB@uk.sun.com>   "Main, Kerry" wrote: >  > Andrew ..z > J > Why do you keep harping on the 22 hour outage as if it was the only one? > I > Although it may have been the longest, the site was in the press almost_J > monthly during the last 12-18 months (I do not feel it is appropriate to > post all of the urls). > B > All one has to do is read the announcement board for the latest:( > http://www2.ebay.com/aw/announce.shtml > 
 > 09/23/00J > "This morning between 08:30 and 10:06 PDT the Feedback forum and My eBay > account statusI > information were unavailable due to a hardware failure. My eBay accountcJ > status information was again unavailable from 13:45 to 13:55 PDT and theI > feedback forum was unavailable from 13:45 to 14:05 PDT while additionalnK > maintenance was performed on both systems. Account status access remainedeM > intermittent until 15:15 PDT while the fix propagated through our systems."s > C > Is is Sun related? Don't know. Does anyone know what system theseo > applications run on? > @ Well thats the whole point isn't it Kerry, you don't know. eBay C uses Sun's and NT boxes and it also has network hardware and it hasoA ISP's. The statement made says there was a hardware failure, whatt	 hardware hA was it Sun's, NT boxes or their network, you don't know and thatst. why the 22 hour outage is such a good example.  = A lot of people including you automatically thought that the f< 22 hour outage was caused by Sun HW/SW probably because you ? wanted to think this and because it gave you a great oportunityn= to FUD Sun. However the information that formed the basis of -: this FUD campaign was similar to the information you have < just posted and it turned out to be totally incorrect making( you and all the other FUDsters look bad.  > Why do you think that you are right this time, you don't know ; any more than you did last time but you still appear to be  ; happy to try to FUD Sun. I suspect that the more impartial  ; people on this group will realise that your stance does nott# really do you or Compaq any credit.     K > >>> It may well have been configuration issues that caused the cluster to F > hang, however given that the general concensus on this group is thatK > clusters don't hang I am sure you can see that this unexpected outage was@ > very damaging to Compaq.>>>> > I > Andrew, as I stated in my previous reply, no vendor can state they have ( > never had HW or SW or config problems. > M > The issue is how often do they have them and what approach does that vendora6 > take in resolving those problems when they do occur. > L > Now, you keep referencing the issues at eTrade that was 18 months ago (FebN > 99). Any reason why you keep hitting on this one incident? That was a config > issue at one site. > E Sorry Kerry you havn't answered the question. You seem happy to quiz t@ me on ebays issues but when I raise etrade suddenly you clam up.   So answer the question.i  B What was the sequence of events that caused the eTrade cluster to @ hang on a number of occasions and who set the chain of events in motion.r  = If you can't answer this with anything other than a "it was as configuration @ issue" then don't bother replying because you know that that is  very very lame.e  C For example if I followed your posting scheme I could at this pointP say.  ' What were the causes of etrades failureo4 If it wasn't eTrades fault or and software supplier 8 then there is only one other party that needs protecting' here and thats Compaq who you work for.r5 So why is there no information, is Compaq protecting u7 itself at the expense of users being made aware of the @5 issue ? is there a conspiracy ? could eTrade be underr6 NDA ? perhaps Compaq refused to fix their system until+ they agreed to keep quiet about the causes.6  6 Now there is very little factual basis to the previous6 paragraph, it would if I was being serious which I am = not be FUD. However it is exactly the same as the accusations 8 you have leveled at Sun and has the same factual basis.   9 You could of course publsh the exact chain of events that 9 caused the eTrade system to hang, after all there do not f7 seem to be any other parties that need protecting here o appart from Compaq.   K > Is it perhaps to try and deflect this threads topic of conversation? Thisi5 > cache issue is a Engineering problem at many sites.r > A No I have answerved the ecache posts, this is about exposing you e: to a bit of scrutiny which you quite obviously don't like.     regardsc Andrew Harrison  Enterprise IT Architectr   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:37:07 GMTi+ From: Jordan Henderson <jordan@my-deja.com>e* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist) Message-ID: <8qqcai$ltd$1@nnrp1.deja.com>s  * In article <39CF7C81.C43D3012@uk.sun.com>,3   andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote:n >i > [big snip] >p> > So sorry if you call this FUD then you really are in trouble: > you see in my book FUD is untrue, and making a statement< > that is true cannot be FUD. Seems to me that you should be= > directing your criticisms at the real FUD merchants on thisr> > group who are the people who let their desire to boost Alpha* > and OpenVMS get in the way of the facts. > = > Just as an example consider the claim that eBay were gaggedm@ > by Sun to stop them revealing the real causes of their outage. >s; > It is now common knowledge that the outage was not causeda > by Sun HW or SWc  9 "Big lie" propoganda technique in use here.  Keep statingi3 something and it gains the force of truth.  I don'to6 believe it's 'common knowledge' at all and I note that7 whenever there's a question about Sun HW/SW reliabilityu5 in the trade press or from the analysts somehow eBaysn _continuing_ problems comes up.   > >                 and that in fact Sun had more to gain by the> > real cause of the outage being revealed. However Sun did notB > reveal what the cause was because we had a customer and partners
 > to protect.o >c  = So you say.  Now, where is that patch that fixed the problem?o7 Why is the details of the eBay's huge "purchase" of Sun 6 equipment secret?  Too many questions go unanswered...  @ > Contrast this with the eTrade outage, just as serious as eBay,= > but no one has ever suggested that eTrade themselves or any > > of the software vendors were responsible for the outage. TheA > general opinion is that it was caused by OpenVMS cluster SW andc@ > a mistake by a Compaq engineer, but this information has never@ > been made public, despite the fact that Compaq has no partners? > that will look silly if the information as to the exact cause/ > is made public.e >s9 > So where is the URL detailing the reason for the eTrade 5 > outage so that Compaq customers can be sure it doest7 > no happen to them ? shoudn't everone know ? why don'ta9 > they ? could it be that eTrade are under NDA and Compaqf6 > don't want to admit that they messed up ? is there a5 > conspiracy going on here ?????? Perhaps Compaq onlyn5 > agreed to fix the eTrade system if they didn't tellc > anyone why it failed.c >r  2 This URL is pretty clear that it was just a matter of misconfiguration:  5   http://www.internetwk.com/news0299/news021299-9.htme  5 And that the problems were solved back in February of 7 1999 after which, unlike eBay, we've heard nary a peep.   3 Of course, this is all about Andrew trying to muddyu5 the waters here.  Sun is caught having customers sign-3 NDAs with every appearance (not just to me, but the-3 analysts and trade journalists agree) that the onlyn0 purpose of which were to gag the customers about4 reliability problems.  Compaq has never been accused6 of these kinds of activities, until Andrew just pulled7 this out of nowhere...  His obvious spinning techniques-6 here are really quite pathetic.  Blame others for your own faults?  Come on...T    7 > Now this of course is FUD because I don't have a cluet6 > if any of the suggestions are correct but it is just, > the same as the FUD directed at Sun :):):)  2 Just the same?  Come off it, it's not just OpenVMS4 advocates here that feel that Sun covers up problems with NDAs, you know.  6 Yours is just a bunch of wild assertions with no basis7 at all.  That's FUD.  Pointing out that someone engagesa4 in, at best, questionable, and possibly an unethical8 practice of having a customer sign an NDA before getting9 the service for which they are contracturally due is justt reporting facts.  5 If the facts bring about Fear in potential customers,n6 Uncertainty that they want to deal with Sun and Doubts6 about the claims of improved quality processes at Sun,7 well, I guess it's FUD.  It also happens to be based in- truth.   >-	 > Regards- > Andrew Harrison- > Enterprise IT Architect  >    -- -Jordan Hendersonp jordan@greenapple.comT    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.t   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:49:52 +0000-$ From: Steve.Spires@yellowpages.co.uk* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist/ Message-ID: <00256966.005C3523.00@quegw01.btyp>a  L Contact:   Tel: 3063  -  IS - Infrastructure, 1st Floor, Bridge Street Plaza    N I can't see anywhere in Kerry's post where he states that this problem is down@ to Sun. All I can see is that he said he doesn't know if it was.   Steve Spires VMS System Manager BT/Yellow PagesM          D andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> on 26/09/2000 02:32:41 PM    To:        Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com+ cc:         (bcc: Steve Spires/YellowPages) N From:      andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>, 26 September 2000, 2:32            p.m.r  ! Re: Sun Hardware problems persistu         "Main, Kerry" wrote:   [cut...]   >NC > Is is Sun related? Don't know. Does anyone know what system these  > applications run on? >h   [cut...]  = Why do you think that you are right this time, you don't know : any more than you did last time but you still appear to be: happy to try to FUD Sun. I suspect that the more impartial; people on this group will realise that your stance does not # really do you or Compaq any credit.      [cut...]   regardst Andrew Harrisone Enterprise IT Architect    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2000 12:00:37 -0400/ From: jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson)a* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist* Message-ID: <8qqh75$19f$1@lisa.gemair.com>  * In article <39D0B389.51B5C2DB@uk.sun.com>,2 andrew harrison  <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> wrote: >"Main, Kerry" wrote:s >> e >> Andrew .. >> aK >> Why do you keep harping on the 22 hour outage as if it was the only one?t >> PJ >> Although it may have been the longest, the site was in the press almostK >> monthly during the last 12-18 months (I do not feel it is appropriate to- >> post all of the urls).- >> aC >> All one has to do is read the announcement board for the latest:@) >> http://www2.ebay.com/aw/announce.shtmlb >> p >> 09/23/00gK >> "This morning between 08:30 and 10:06 PDT the Feedback forum and My eBayw >> account statuskJ >> information were unavailable due to a hardware failure. My eBay accountK >> status information was again unavailable from 13:45 to 13:55 PDT and thegJ >> feedback forum was unavailable from 13:45 to 14:05 PDT while additionalL >> maintenance was performed on both systems. Account status access remainedN >> intermittent until 15:15 PDT while the fix propagated through our systems." >> 0D >> Is is Sun related? Don't know. Does anyone know what system these >> applications run on?d >> fA >Well thats the whole point isn't it Kerry, you don't know. eBay fD >uses Sun's and NT boxes and it also has network hardware and it hasB >ISP's. The statement made says there was a hardware failure, what
 >hardware B >was it Sun's, NT boxes or their network, you don't know and thats/ >why the 22 hour outage is such a good example.  > > >A lot of people including you automatically thought that the = >22 hour outage was caused by Sun HW/SW probably because you s@ >wanted to think this and because it gave you a great oportunity
 >to FUD Sun. h  9 Gosh, it might have been eBay's management original criesh; of outrage at Sun that might have led us in that direction.   ? >             However the information that formed the basis of y; >this FUD campaign was similar to the information you have  = >just posted and it turned out to be totally incorrect makingo) >you and all the other FUDsters look bad.h >d  8 I don't believe you've demonstrated it as being "totally9 incorrect", but you keep asserting that.  Perhaps you aret7 practicing so that you can say it with more confidence.e    ? >Why do you think that you are right this time, you don't know e< >any more than you did last time but you still appear to be < >happy to try to FUD Sun. I suspect that the more impartial < >people on this group will realise that your stance does not$ >really do you or Compaq any credit. >o > L >> >>> It may well have been configuration issues that caused the cluster toG >> hang, however given that the general concensus on this group is thatbL >> clusters don't hang I am sure you can see that this unexpected outage was >> very damaging to Compaq.>>>>  >> lJ >> Andrew, as I stated in my previous reply, no vendor can state they have) >> never had HW or SW or config problems.n >> aN >> The issue is how often do they have them and what approach does that vendor7 >> take in resolving those problems when they do occur.y >>  M >> Now, you keep referencing the issues at eTrade that was 18 months ago (FebNO >> 99). Any reason why you keep hitting on this one incident? That was a configK >> issue at one site.t >> rF >Sorry Kerry you havn't answered the question. You seem happy to quiz A >me on ebays issues but when I raise etrade suddenly you clam up.  >b >So answer the question. >mC >What was the sequence of events that caused the eTrade cluster to hA >hang on a number of occasions and who set the chain of events inw >motion. >r> >If you can't answer this with anything other than a "it was a >configuration tA >issue" then don't bother replying because you know that that is i >very very lame. >sD >For example if I followed your posting scheme I could at this point >say.a >i( >What were the causes of etrades failure5 >If it wasn't eTrades fault or and software supplier f9 >then there is only one other party that needs protectingr( >here and thats Compaq who you work for.6 >So why is there no information, is Compaq protecting 8 >itself at the expense of users being made aware of the 6 >issue ? is there a conspiracy ? could eTrade be under7 >NDA ? perhaps Compaq refused to fix their system untilp, >they agreed to keep quiet about the causes. > 7 >Now there is very little factual basis to the previousr7 >paragraph, it would if I was being serious which I am t> >not be FUD. However it is exactly the same as the accusations9 >you have leveled at Sun and has the same factual basis. h >l: >You could of course publsh the exact chain of events that: >caused the eTrade system to hang, after all there do not 8 >seem to be any other parties that need protecting here  >appart from Compaq.   >e  5 And, without the facts, how are we to know that there 8 are other parties to be protected in the eBay incidents?   Facts that we do know:   	eBay initially blamed Sun  . 	Everyone involved went quiet after an initial. 	flurry of finger-pointing.  Combine this with- 	the fact that Sun uses NDAs (in a promise of + 	prompt attention to problems that they are2) 	under contractural obligation to addressa) 	promptly anyway) to gag customers.  Eveno. 	Sun Exec VP Shoemaker NOW admits that getting- 	customers to sign those NDAs was a bad idea.t  * 	The outages were blamed on a patch to the( 	software that was avaialble "for over a) 	year", but somehow, the details of this  , 	patch were never revealed.  This looks like( 	a rather transparent lie.  Patches are * 	public knowledge.  Vendors WANT customers+ 	to know about patches, their availability,q* 	what problems they address, etc.  Yet, in* 	this case, noone can point to information! 	surrounding the unapplied patch.   ) 	eBay received large infusions of Sun HW 2- 	following these incidents.  The cost/pricingo# 	was never revealed.  Why was that?:  L >> Is it perhaps to try and deflect this threads topic of conversation? This6 >> cache issue is a Engineering problem at many sites. >> eB >No I have answerved the ecache posts, this is about exposing you ; >to a bit of scrutiny which you quite obviously don't like.s >m  G What a delightful neologism!  Yes, you've anSWERVED one direction, thent) SWERVED in the other on the ecache posts.n  C Oh, that's right, this was old news back in November 1999 when you w said it was all fixed...   >  >regards >Andrew Harrison >Enterprise IT Architect   -Jordan Hendersonm jordan@greenapple.com    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2000 14:19:41 -0500* From: young_r@eisner.decus.org (Rob Young)* Subject: Re: Sun Hardware problems persist+ Message-ID: <yJdTrL53mvHa@eisner.decus.org>   \ In article <8qqh75$19f$1@lisa.gemair.com>, jordan@lisa.gemair.com (Jordan Henderson) writes:  ) > Andrew "Environmental" Harrison writes:wC >>No I have answerved the ecache posts, this is about exposing you e< >>to a bit of scrutiny which you quite obviously don't like. >> > I > What a delightful neologism!  Yes, you've anSWERVED one direction, then + > SWERVED in the other on the ecache posts.r > E > Oh, that's right, this was old news back in November 1999 when you   > said it was all fixed... >   E 	Just the facts... not November 1999 but December 1999 and it appears2> 	to be time for another refresh of that infamous December 1999	 	posting:a  > http://www.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=560166016&fmt=text   ----  Begin Usenet post ----  B From: Andrew Harrison SUNUK Consultancy <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>* Subject: Re: The Sun fails to shine....... Date: 13 Dec 1999 00:00:00 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems Newsgroups: comp.os.vmsr   Rob Young wrote:  B > In article <82jj0u$c1$1@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>, "John Nixon"$ <jorlnixon@worldnet.att.net> writes:M > > Of course I relayed this to my pro-Sun coworkers.  They just shrugged and : > > said "oh yeah.  That is old news and is all fixed now. > >eJ > > From the article, what does     "The note, dated 16 November last ...". > > mean?   Does it mean Nov 16, 1999 or 1998? >eC >         Well.. applying a tiny bit of analysis.. if this was fromiJ >         November of 1998 this would have been news back then.  Seeing itK >         is news on Pearl Harbor day 1999, I say it is from Nov. 16, 1999.m >.  " Well sorry Rob but it is old news.  F The Gartner report is a re-hash of an origional report and is based on9 info released by Sun to Gartner not the other way around.h  L Sun does not even supply the 400 MHz/4 MB cache CPU part mentioned by GarnerJ in their report any longer it was replaced in May of this year. The end ofI life of this module was some time after the origional fault was found andc
 rectified.  O Incedentally Gartner also report that the 400 MHz/8 MB cache unit that replacedn it is reliable.t  6 The register article also refers to a FC-AL part which: Sun also hasn't supplied for some time we stopped shipping, the part and replaced the ones in the field.  8 I hope that Compaq who also OEM'd the same part have not9 shipped  shipped the revision of the part that caused then: problem and if they have I hope that they like HP who also8 OEMed the same part are recalling the ones in the field.   Arn't glass houses great !!I       > J >         Your buds claiming "oh yeah, old news."  They are full of beans.J >         They didn't know about this and when pressed can't cite a singleJ >         reference hardcopy or otherwise.   You gotta watch out for folksL >         like you describe.  When faced with the facts, they go into denialK >         mode instead of admitting fault.  I have dealt with several folksn8 >         in the last 2 years with very similar results. >d  J "In denial mode", interesting choice of words from an OpenVMS advocate :-)? :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)i? :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)t   Owwwww I split my sides.   Regards  Andrew Harrisond Enterprise IT Architectf   ----  End Usenet post ----    C 	Old news , eh?  "found [the fault] and rectified."  Yeah , sure.  t   	Spin on Andrew, Spin on.t   				Rob    ------------------------------  + Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:52:10 +0000 (   ) 3 From: Christopher Smith <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com>eS Subject: Re: Top "F" Reasons OpenVMS isn't going to Die  (WAS:Re: [VMS] VAXisdying) J Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.10009261450220.12998-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com>  ( On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, Mark E. Levy wrote:  B > "Christopher Smith" <chriss@Mufasa.pubserv.com> wrote in messageD > news:Pine.LNX.4.05.10009251558550.942-100000@Mufasa.pubserv.com...M > > VMS is not windows _anything_ with or without the gui.  Ignoring the fact N > > that VMS has a fine gui ;)...  It's nothing like NT, since it will run for, > > longer than a week without interruption.  G > A week? Only a week? My god man, what are you doing wrong? I have VMSnF > systems that run longer than that with 64Mb tied behind their backs.  J A week was the absolute maximum for an NT system -- of course a VMS systemD will run for decades, but I was only trying to differentiate it from. windows.  For that, a week of uptime suffices.   I should have been more clear.   Regards,   Chris   O ===============================================================================t@ "My two cents"			(http://rootworks.com/twocentsworth.cgi?128562)= Christopher Smith(chriss@pubserv.com)			Prgramer^W ProgrammerS Prime Synergy of Champaign, IL.q% -------------------------------------nI "Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes andeH weighs 30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes; and weigh only 1.5 tons." -- Popular Mechanics, March 1949 yO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------d   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:50:13 GMTS- From: "Richard D. Piccard" <piccard@ohio.edu> 9 Subject: Re: UNDELET (Was Re: Suggested VMS new feature!)u( Message-ID: <39D09B85.70C5073E@ohio.edu>  N The olde original, the Macintosh trash can, exists on each drive or partition,P just as the desktop does.  Unlike Windows, Mac OS (through 8.6, anyway) will NOTQ empty the trash on its own.  I have seen some Mac software stumble when trying toeO delete multiple files of the same name at the same time, but dragging a file toeR the trash can in the Finder does not have problems with multiple files of the same name being in the trash.  #                                 RDP      "John E. Malmberg" wrote:s  0 > In article <39CF661F.357825EC@fsi.net.mapson>,1 > SysAdmin <djesys.nospam@fsi.net.mapson> writes:  > >wG > > Y'know, just thinking about it, I'm curious now: How does WhineDozemK > > handle the concept of the "recycle Bin" in a system with more than justo  > > the C: drive for read/write? > >a= > > For example: if I send D:\MYFILE.DOC into the recycle bintD > > (C:\WINDOWS\RECYCLED\), does the file still live on D:, or is it > > transferred to C:? > >  > > ...or on NT: >tI > Maybe.  The recycle bin is stored in special folders, and can reside ontF > multiple disks as needed.  I have not looked into how optimal it is. >oL > > If Administrator sends a file to the Recycle bin, can David (with Admin. > > priv.) restore it? > M > The recycle bin appears to be a per-user folder.  Administrator can not seer3 > David's and David can not see the Administrators.g >sN > Since it appears to be a directory structure that is just hidden away, thereJ > may be a backdoor way for a user to undelete a file that a user deletes. >o >sI > > What about (Same scenario) when the file originally "lived" on the D:s" > > (hard disc) drive (partition)? >dQ > Windows NT, to provide you with the illusion of speed hides a deleted file fromaG > you and really deletes it later, as it feels that it needs the space.o >oN > Since portions of the waste basket can be on multple drives, it appears thatA > windows handles it automagically decides where to put the file.u >tQ > Again, I have not checked to see if the logic is documented, or how it actuallye > works. >s? > > How 'bout the multi-user, multi-partition question on W/9x?s >t& > You are repeating earlier questions. >o >tJ > > Hhmmm... I wonder how KDE on Linux handles this. I have a Trash bin onA > > my desktop, and "/" and "/home" are on separate partitions...c >o > I do not know. >rQ > Please note that the Windows "Wastebasket" only applies to local drives and notiK > to network served files.  If a file is deleted over a network it is gone.  > K > [Unless it is on a VMS system serving the files and running Glen's Safetyo > product :-) ]s >i >  > -John  > wb8tyw@qsl.network   --B ==================================================================B Dick Piccard                           Academic Technology ManagerB piccard@ohio.edu                                 Computer ServicesB http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/                Ohio University   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 15:18:56 -0000g- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)r Subject: Re: ups sizingi/ Message-ID: <st1fj01hs424ad@news.supernews.com>r  K jean-francois.marchal@x9000.fr (Jean-Franois Marchal) wrote in <8q599l$vnta $1@s1.read.news.oleane.net>:   >Hi !  >v >I need to size a UPS forr
 > - 2 DS10 > - 2 BA356 full of disksr > - 2 PWS433au > - 1 MicroVAX 31806 > - 2 BA3532 > + >Where could I find the data for each one ?  >  >Thankst >Jean-Francois Marchal
 >X9000 - LYONd >  >r >n   Hi,w  I Compaq's Pre-Sales Technical Support Group has answered air conditioning dF and power requirements questions like this for me in the past.  Phone K Compaq's main number over there and ask for this group by name, or perhaps c en francais...   ws   -- ] << Boycott Shampoo >>a << Demand REAL POO >>m   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 06:49:15 GMTt From: richard_maher@my-deja.coms Subject: Re: use of LIB$GET_VM) Message-ID: <8qpgt7$mik$1@nnrp1.deja.com>    Hi,d  F You may wish to look at the undocumented lib$vm_realloc. The argumentsG are pretty much as reqd by C. The problem I found with this is that the-D algorithm seems to just ask for 1.5 times the bytes that you ask for( and all the badness that goes with that.  @ (What ever happened to GillingsP? I'm sure he replied in the RTLA conference [that I think Steve Lionel moderates] that there was awE magical number 1.412345? that made sense) But seriously, where is he? 4 He'd be a lot more use to this user group than some.  E Anyway I think the algorithm is less than optimal and you should justeF call lib$get_vm again and check for contiguous addresses. If not do asC Steve said and copy the old stuff over and free the old memory. NB:-: Don't forget ots$movec3 if you are going over 65535 bytes.   Regards Richard Maher.  8 In article <moavsss4t07a7g1ur6ghes8qmdd3jj6knt@4ax.com>,/   Steve Lionel <Steve.Lionel@compaq.com> wrote:b9 > On Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:16:58 -0400, "Dominic Olivastro"w% > <DOlivastro@ChiResearch.com> wrote:r >ME > >The problem is the buffer must be contiguous, since I have to passt the5C > >starting address of the buffer and the length of the buffer to a 	 differentd > >routine.m > >nE > >I can get the buffer with LIB$GET_VM, but my understanding is thati4 > >subsequent calls may not return contiguous space. >uH > When you need more space, allocate a new, larger buffer, copy the data) > from old to new and deallocate the old.d >>/ > Steve Lionel (mailto:Steve.Lionel@compaq.com)o > Fortran Engineeringu( > Compaq Computer Corporation, Nashua NH >k8 > Compaq Fortran web site: http://www.compaq.com/fortran >a    & Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.e   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:32:22 -0000c- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer)i+ Subject: Re: Using shared memory on OpenVMSo/ Message-ID: <st1jsm73v5me94@news.supernews.com>e  F Neway.Manalebih@secco.de (Neway Manalebih) wrote in <39CA174D.359B9979 @secco.de>:h   >Hi! >tI >Does anyone have some experience in programming shared memory access andm >creation on OpenVMS using C?i > * >Could anyone please send me some samples? >f >Thanks  >Mirko >  >i   Hi,a  K Please clarify"shared memory":  Are the processes that will be sharing the t memory on the same box?m   ws   -- a << Boycott Shampoo >>r << Demand REAL POO >>o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 10:30:03 -0400e- From: "Peter Weaver" <peter.weaver@stelco.ca>g7 Subject: VAX ODL,  AXP ODL, and PC Readable Documentiond/ Message-ID: <st1cp1tkt1sd98@corp.supernews.com>'   Background:mF In our September 2000 OpenVMS Alpha Software Product Library there was> a letter (AV-RDA6J-TE) that stated "for your evaluation, we'veB included PC-Readable Online Documentation CDROMs within the OnlineD Documentation Folder ... in addition to beta versions of the BNU andA Bookreader software redesigned to run natively on MS-Windows, thea4 ODL-PC incorporates AltaVista Search functionality."  B At the time we searched the Software Product Library folder (since< that was the folder the letter came in) but did not find theC documentation CD. We assumed that since the letter said "within thecC Online Documentation Folder" we would get the CD's when our OpenVMSnF VAX Online Documentation Library folder came in. Well our VAX ODL came7 in today and we still can not find a PC readable CDROM.e  > We noticed that when we downloaded the latest PC BNU beta fromD http://www.openvms.digital.com/odl_axp_beta.html that it assumes the CD is labeled AXPDOCSEP00.  
 Questions:F Does this mean that we can only get the PC version of BNU if we have a subscription to the AXP ODL?  F I have been under the impression that the VAX ODL and the AXP ODL wereF identical and it didn't matter if we subscribed to the VAX or AXP ODL.B At least that is what DEC told me when I ordered my first AXP in aF previous life. Are there other differences between the AXP ODL and the VAX ODL?  ? Has anyone out there tried the PC version of BNU? What are youre impressions?   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 15:16:26 -0000a- From: wspencer@ap.nospam.org (Warren Spencer) % Subject: Re: VMS Session Using Exceedw/ Message-ID: <st1feak2db4778@news.supernews.com>t  F taylor_robert@jpmorgan.com (Robert Taylor) wrote in <39C613B8.AE7344F1 @jpmorgan.com>:o  I >Hi, I can connect to my VMS host using Reflections but I would prefer toa >use Exceed if possible.B >Has anyone done this ? Specifically I'm interested in the connect	 >command.t >r >Thanks in advance.  >e  L I don't see the exact solution I use for this in the replies so far, so let K me drop mine in here.  You'll need to know the IP address your PC is using nI (if it's DHCP, grab a DOS box and type IPCONFIG or WINIPCFG to find out).e   Then on the VMS side:m  I $ SET DISPLAY/CRE/TRANSPORT=TCPIP/NODE=x.x.x.x  (where x.x.x.x is the IP   address of your PC)a $ CREATE/TERMINAL/DETACH  J That oughta do it.  Make sure you can ping one box from the other - check  both directions.   ws   -- , << Boycott Shampoo >>  << Demand REAL POO >>r   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 19:46:04 +0010w% From: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.aunN Subject: Re: War story: Accidental postings in HTML/MIME (hopefully fixed now)5 Message-ID: <01JUN2PGX97M004O6H@tgmail.tg.nsw.gov.au>p  , David Murphy, replying to Lorin Ricker said:  D >I keep the HTML from being generated by clicking on File/PropertiesD >*while composing a message*.  This leads to "Format" at which pointH >you must choose UUencode.  Since this is microsoft, this will of courseC >NOT encode your message at all, but instead will prevent the HTML.a >  >I am _not_ making this up.h   I love it!!!  Q I do a few little clicks with DECwindows VMSmail, but they are simplistic, and I  , do not have to go through n levels of menus.  M Anyone who sends me Micro$hit WORD stuff, I can happily ignore.  Such idiocy tG occurred in our organisation that when they moved between ALL-IN-1 and hP Micro$hit, the secretarys felt that they had to put out a plain text version of Q their spiel followed by a mega-disk-chewer of WORD.  The plain text said it all,  / but they could not encapsulate stupid pictures.    Regards, Paddy   Paddy O'Brien, Transmission Development,N
 TransGrid, PO Box A1000, Sydney South,  NSW 2000, Australia    Tel:   +61 2 9284-3063 Fax:   +61 2 9284-3050& Email: paddy.o'brien@zzz.tg.nsw.gov.au  M Either "\'" or "\s" (to escape the apostrophe) seems to work for most people, ; but that little whizz-bang apostrophe gives me little spam.    ------------------------------   Date: 26 Sep 2000 09:30:03 GMT* From: helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig)5 Subject: Re: Why is it so hard to port things to VMS?-. Message-ID: <8qpqar$su7$1@info.service.rug.nl>  H In article <5.0.0.25.0.20000925152242.02236be0@24.8.96.48>, Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> writes:   F > I've only tangental experience with Apache, but I can tell you that 7 > configuring perl is a decidedly non-trivial process. w  E Dave Jones, author of the OSU web server, once uttered the following eH words of wisdom, I believe on the OSU web server mailing list.  (On the I subject of portability, I believe this web server will run under unix as ! well).  L BTW, the source code to perl gives me a headache, I haven't seen anything soM convoluted since I did the Maple ports for Waterloo.  The comments are either O quotes from 'Lord of the Rings' or self-congratulatory remarks of how efficiente$ or clever the next block of code is.  O                                                                  ---David Jones/   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 06:06:40 -0400 0 From: Jim Jennis <jjennis@discovery.fuentez.com>5 Subject: Re: Why is it so hard to port things to VMS?.D Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000926060640.009c59a0@discovery.fuentez.com>  % At 04:08 PM 9/25/2000 GMT, you wrote:r4 >Robert Deininger <rdeininger@mindspring.com> wrote:I >> In article <pBIz5.18980$nk3.922732@newsread03.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, 1 "Mike Flaherty" <mflaherty2@earthlink.net> wrote:r >eK >> many cases.  A lot of these folks have never programmed off of unix, and G >> their code (and makefiles etc.) are FILLED with unix-specific stuff.  >eG >...indeed: but turn it around - what programs are developed on VMS and   >then ported to other platforms? >o  K Well...GV for one. I worked on this application with Johannes Plass in 1994 & and we released it on VMS in Jan 1995.  F Although it was based on Tim Theissen's Ghostview, the application wasH basically developed "from the ground up" on VMS and THEN ported to LinuxC and Unix. The Linux/Unix port was not released until much later, souM sometimes applications do get developed on VMS and then ported to Unix/Linux.t   Regards,   Jimg    8 --------------------------------------------------------7 FSC - Building Better Information Technology Solutions-n7       from the Production Floor to the Customer's Door.a8 --------------------------------------------------------5 Jim Jennis, Technical Director for Commercial Systemst Fuentez Systems Concepts, Inc. 1 Discovery Place, Suite 2 Martinsburg, WV. 25401 USA   # Phone: +001 (304) 263-0163 ext. 235o Fax:   +001 (304) 263-0702% Email: jjennis@discovery.fuentez.com v        jhjennis@shentel.net & WEB: http://www.discovery.fuentez.com/   ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2000 08:55:58 -05009 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) 5 Subject: Re: Why is it so hard to port things to VMS? + Message-ID: <ZdeqAeo4leG2@eisner.decus.org>o  [ In article <8qpqar$su7$1@info.service.rug.nl>, helbig@astro.rug.nl (Phillip Helbig) writes:g  N > BTW, the source code to perl gives me a headache, I haven't seen anything soO > convoluted since I did the Maple ports for Waterloo.  The comments are eithertQ > quotes from 'Lord of the Rings' or self-congratulatory remarks of how efficientI& > or clever the next block of code is.  F Anyone who comments on how "efficient" a piece of source code might beF is obviously confused about the place of compilers in modern computing
 environments.-  J Run-time "efficiency" is highly dependent upon the nature of the compiler,G and guessing about how efficient the results from a particular piece offG source might be is quite fatuous, particularly when the source is to be	I run through many different compilers for many different instruction sets,  even if they are all Unix.  B If they really meant how "efficient" it is during the compilation,3 they are even more deluded about what is important.    ------------------------------    Date: 26 Sep 2000 09:53:23 -0500, From: koehler@eisner.decus.org (Bob Koehler)5 Subject: Re: Why is it so hard to port things to VMS?m+ Message-ID: <E$rdkC0MVT2G@eisner.decus.org>9  ` In article <a9DU1yDhL+zP@eisner.decus.org>, malmberg@eisner.decus.org (John E. Malmberg) writes:   > What is working: > P > A UNIX porting shared image that supplements the DEC C RTL.  (Yes another one) >    - FCNTL locking5 >    - Pathworks name mangling or ODS-5 preservation.,/ >    - A start of LINUX READLINE functionality. E >    - A crypt() that returns a VMS password hash for last getpwuid()wB >    - various C library functions not currently in the DEC C RTL.  D Have you looked at ECO VMS721_ACRTL-V0200?  Made my life much easierD already, fixes many C RTL issues with ODS-5 file naming and argumentB case handling, amoung other things.  Made the JDK work much nicer.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporationp= Hubble Space Telescope Payload  | Federal Sector, Civil GroupnE  Flight Software Team           | please remove ".aspm" when replyingt   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:14:55 +0100r/ From: Nigel Arnot <sysmgr@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk> 5 Subject: re: Why is it so hard to port things to VMS?97 Message-ID: <009F0B4C.9B921917.10@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk>-  N Anyone else feel that this thread's title is akin to "have you stopped beating your wife yet?"M  H Porting code is always difficult if the code contains entities that are G specific to a particular environment. Code written to be portable keepsdF these calls in the minimum possible number of jacket routines, therebyC minimizing the work. A lot of code has them scattered liberally allu over the place.i  D The number one Unix-to-VMS headache is fork(), followed by select().B Assumptions about filenames are another common failing, e.g. that I foo.bar.baz is a valid filename, of that prepending ../out/ to a filename G is sensible (the VMS equivalent would be prepending [-.out] which would F be equally a pain to port elsewhere). Not hard to fix if it's visible,M but when it's hidden away as an uncommented  strcat with a couple of pointers.J str1 and cp2, and when cp2 is not passed to open() until several function  call/returns later ...  E It works both ways. On VMS it's trivially easy to update records in aoF file atomically, in the presence of multiple writers, even if they areK distributed on multiple systems in a cluster. In Unix you need a full-blowntL database manager. And client-server techniques. And database node-failover. N All to port one little VMS ISAM file with thirty-odd records in it, and a few  lines of associated code.   F Or something still easier: opening a file with (FORTRAN) STATUS='NEW' G for writing. It creates a new version overlying an old file. What to do ? on Unix? A careless port overwrites an existing file: not good.o  * Why's it so hard to port programs to Unix?  G And if you think that's bad, try porting a Visual-C program written fortH Windoze where the programmer liked using code wizards. Oh yes, it's nice@ to imagine that Microsoft doesn't exist. But not very realistic.   	Yours, 
 		Nigel Arnota- 		NRA@MAXWELL.PH.KCL.AC.UK                   p  7 		"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded."i   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:36:27 -0500a) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net> 5 Subject: Re: Why is it so hard to port things to VMS?i/ Message-ID: <st19fr98q68cc0@corp.supernews.com>g  B "Bob Koehler" <koehler@eisner.decus.organization> wrote in message% news:E$rdkC0MVT2G@eisner.decus.org... - > In article <a9DU1yDhL+zP@eisner.decus.org>,h- wb8tyw@qsl.network (John E. Malmberg) writes:s >t > > What is working: > >eE > > A UNIX porting shared image that supplements the DEC C RTL.  (Yesi another one) > >    - FCNTL locking= *  Uses RMS locks - Does report the holder of a blocked lock. 7 > >    - Pathworks name mangling or ODS-5 preservation.s1 > >    - A start of LINUX READLINE functionality.tG > >    - A crypt() that returns a VMS password hash for last getpwuid() D > >    - various C library functions not currently in the DEC C RTL. >tF > Have you looked at ECO VMS721_ACRTL-V0200?  Made my life much easierF > already, fixes many C RTL issues with ODS-5 file naming and argumentD > case handling, amoung other things.  Made the JDK work much nicer.  I I have looked at it, and mentioned that in either this or another thread.oI One of the bugs that I spent a bit of time last week trying to find in my-G code turns out to be listed.  It fortunately is a condition that can beoK avoided.  Some other ones listed look like some bugs that I reported to thee CSC earlier in my port.n  K The above are only a small sample of what is in my porting shared image.  I.H am trying to get it kitted up and my documentation on it packaged before, CETS.  It may not happen until after though.  K I am currently building and testing on a Multia that is running OpenVMS 7.2 J so I can not deploy the patch.  Also even though I can not test it at thisK time, this code should work for as far back as OpenVMS VAX 5.5-2.  My otheriH test platform is currently running OpenVMS 7.1 VAX.  I have not done any8 testing on it other than an occasional compile and link.   -John  wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:55:05 -0500-) From: "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net>25 Subject: Re: Why is it so hard to port things to VMS?o/ Message-ID: <st1aip7c4gth17@corp.supernews.com>8  @ "Jordan Henderson" <jordan@lisa.gemair.company> wrote in message$ news:8qoqhe$j0g$1@lisa.gemair.com...8 > In article <8qokfo$9l8$2@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>,5 > Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam> wrote:. > >e. > >In article <a9DU1yDhL+zP@eisner.decus.org>,1 > > wb8tyw@qsl.network (John E. Malmberg) writes:lL > >:Unfortunately, getting the SETUID to use the personna functions will not makeI > >:it into this release.  Just not enough cyles available.  It will be au priority5 > >:for the next revision of my porting shared image.n > >.. 7 > >:   - Pathworks name mangling or ODS-5 preservation.o > >..dD > >:   - various C library functions not currently in the DEC C RTL. > > I > >  We have a whole bunch of stuff in this area targeted for the DII COEo work.g > >s >vF > Hmmm... A lot of people are working in this area on a whole bunch ofF > different projects.  How to free up more cycles for productive work?  J While there is some overlap in the other two porting libraries and the COEL stuff, much of the stuff that I needed to implement was not present in them.  I When some input was solicited by Compaq VMS people last year, I basically F documented what I needed to implement in my porting library for SAMBA.  E > Has there ever been any discussion of releasing the CRTL (includingsE > betas for work included in DII COE) as Open Source?  All these manynE > freeware projects could benefit, and it could help produce a betterrH > end product in that there will be a lot of real-world software testing > the functions out.  G There are only a very few places where access to the source of the CRTLqJ would have helped me.  And mainly it would have been to verify areas whereL the documentation seemed a little vague.  It was in most cases simply fasterF to write small programs and observe the behavior than requesting help.  K The big thing that I needed was fcntl() locking, and I was told that it was7> a desired feature, but not on the implementation schedule yet.  L As it is, my fcntl() locking is not exactly on UNIX, but as close as I couldI get using RMS.  If you attempt to lock a part of a record, I have to lockOD the entire record.  It would take an enhancement to RMS locking, andC probably a change to the way C programs do I/O in order to get 100%r compliance.e   -Johnl wb8tyw@qsl.network   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Sep 2000 15:54:22 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)-5 Subject: Re: Why is it so hard to port things to VMS?r, Message-ID: <8qqgre$1jsf$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  + In article <5H7zEY5FwSvN@eisner.decus.org>, <  Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) writes: |> nD |>                                       They have discussed certainA |> shortcomings in allegedly "portable" source from Unix systems.l |> P  B Just one quick note before more confussion ensues.  Because of theC differences between Linux, BSD, SYSV and POSIX derived systems verysE few people actually claim transparent portability between them and noaD one in their right mind has ever claimed Unix programs were portable to non-Unix systems.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 26 Sep 2000 15:57:50 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)n5 Subject: Re: Why is it so hard to port things to VMS?d, Message-ID: <8qqh1u$1jsf$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  6 In article <8qnrfs$4po$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>,5  hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam (Hoff Hoffman) writes:e |> uL |>   It occurs to me that a "port-o-meter" source code portability analysis K |>   tool might be useful, but I really don't have the cycles to create it.e |> o  F The best one of these is still a human being.  And that was one of theE expected outcomes from my recent proposal to fund the porting of somedF of these Unix applications.  One would expect that if you started withF some of the smaller (but still very useful) packages, you would gather3 the knowledge needed to handle the larger packages.m   bill   -- eJ Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   n   ------------------------------   Date: 26 Sep 2000 16:45:44 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) 5 Subject: Re: Why is it so hard to port things to VMS? , Message-ID: <8qqjro$1lim$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  L In article <rdeininger-2509001205480001@user-2ive73h.dialup.mindspring.com>,5  rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:e |> NL |> Bingo!  "Open-source" in practice means "fairly portable among unixes" in |> many cases.    < who ever said this??  Open-source merely means the source is; available as opposed to proprietary where it is not.  Therea< is a lot of "open-source" software that is not even portable< between various flavors of Unix.  But then, not only does it< not claim to be, but frequently the Readme specifically says it is notn-portable.  K |>              A lot of these folks have never programmed off of unix, and/G |> their code (and makefiles etc.) are FILLED with unix-specific stuff..  < And none of them have ever claimed otherwise.  Believe it or? not, most VMS code would not port to Unix either.  Portability, A especially across drasticly different platforms like Unix vs. VMSt? has an extremely high cost intime, effort and efficiency.  Why o@ would you expect a Unix programmer to take into account an OS he? is unfamiliar with any more than they expect VMS programmers to  make their code run on Unix??E   |> sI |> Good programs would have all their nonportable stuff isolated in a feweN |> modules and hidden behind a small API.  You'd have to replace those modulesI |> when porting to a new platform, but the bulk of the code would remain L
 |> unchanged.i  ? Since when are "good" and "portable" synonyms??  I can think ofv= lot's of good programs none of which are in any way (nor were  they intended to be) portable.   |> yL |> Alas, that is NOT how most unix folks seem to program.  Platform-specificP |> code is woven thoughout the whole application.  Variants for Solaris, HP, andD |> all the others are pouned in using C preprocessor #if directives.  A In a style that is as old as when the Unix first became more thanoA one dialect.   Guess what, they're not the only ones who do this.g@ Look at the Macro11 source for Forth for the PDP11.  It supports? RT11 and RSX11 and it uses ".IFDF" to decide which system it isP? being built for.  A style that probably pre-dates Unix and may VA actually have come from the same people who later brought us VMS.<   |> 5P |> The worst problems seem to come in C and C++ programs.  OTOH, I've dealt withH |> Fortran and Fortran 90 programs from unix that were painless to port. |> gQ |> The sad fact is, crappy code is hard to port, and there is lots of crappy codee
 |> out there.u  @ While this is true at face value, one needs to be careful not toC make portability a deciding factor in the quality of code.  It onlywB counts if portability was one of the spcifications of the program.   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------   Date: 26 Sep 2000 16:50:49 GMT1 From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)a5 Subject: Re: Why is it so hard to port things to VMS?<, Message-ID: <8qqk59$1lim$2@info.cs.uofs.edu>  ) In article <39CF798E.990A9604@gtech.com>,s@  Arne =?iso-8859-1?Q?Vajh=F8j?= <arne.vajhoej@gtech.com> writes: |> 0K |> The sad fact are that much of the free software being developed on Unix:c5 |>   - includes non-standard OS-specific header-filese* |>   - uses non-standard OS-specific calls6 |>   - relies on various OS-specific semantic features   Two questions.- 1) non-standard according to who's standard?? @ 2) if I am writing code to run on a Unix machine and portability;    to other non-compatable OSes was not part of my originale<    specification, why should I not us OS specific features??   bill   --  J Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolvesD bill@cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton   |A Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>       ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 07:16:01 -0500s( From: Harris brown <yyz22p@123india.com> Subject: Your Status #4F127 Message-ID: <200009261210.VAA04129@power.dongjin.co.kr>-   This is a MIME Message  + ------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BDF6C7.FABAC1B0eY Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0080_01BDF6C7.FABAC1B0"-  + ------=_NextPart_001_0080_01BDF6C7.FABAC1B0i. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablev  % ***** This is an HTML Message ! *****1    + ------=_NextPart_001_0080_01BDF6C7.FABAC1B0a- Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"e+ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   - <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4=2E0-  transitional//en">-  <html>e  <head>2     %     <title>Executive Guild Membershipc)  ApplicationResponse-O-Matic Form</title>R  </head>+  <body text=3D"#808080" bgcolor=3D"#F4AE68"D6  link=3D"#800040" vlink=3D"#FF0000" alink=3D"#8080C0">2  <p><font color=3D"#000000">Dear Professional,<br>  <br>eE  You have been selected as a potential candidate for biographical<br> H  inclusion in the 2000 - 2001 Edition of the International Executive<br>  Guild Registry=2E<br>  <br>t@  Please accept our congratulations for this coveted honor=2E<br>  <br> G  As this edition is so important in view of the new millennium, the<br> D  International Executive Guild Registry will be published in two<br>H  different formats; the searchable CD-ROM and the Online Registry=2E<br>  <br>"K  Since inclusion can be considered recognition of your career position<br>=g  K  and professionalism, each candidate is evaluated in keeping with high<br>=s  K  standards of individual achievement=2E In light of this, the Internationa=e l<br>iI  Executive Guild thinks that you may make an interesting biographical<br>f  subject=2E<br>t  <br>fK  We look forward to your inclusion and appearance in the International<br>=   K  Executive Guild's Registry=2E Best wishes for your continued success=2E<b=- r>  <br> "  International Executive Guild<br>  Listing Dept=2E<br>  <br> K  P=2ES=2E There is no cost or obligation to be included in the Internation=  al<br>K  Executive Guild Registry=2E For accuracy and publication purposes, we ask=r <br>I  you to fill in the brief bit of information in the registration form<br>n  below=2E</font></p>  <p>  <hr WIDTH=3D"100%">9  <p align=3D"center"><b><i><font color=3D"#000000">If youi0  wish to be removed from our list, please submit  your request</font></i></b>"  <br><b><i><font face=3D"Times New,  Roman,Times"><font color=3D"#000000">at the.  bottom of this email=2E</font></font></i></b>  </p>E  <hr WIDTH=3D"100%">  <table WIDTH=3D"695" >r*  <caption><script language=3D"JavaScript">  i  <!--n  function validate_form() {,%    validity =3D true; // assume validk8    if (!check_empty(document=2Eform=2Ebusphone=2Evalue)).          { validity =3D false; alert('Day Time  Phone field is empty!'); }n      if (validity)1          alert ("Thank you for your registration!i  "1                  + "Your form is now being passedv  to your browser's "0                  + "Mail Delivery Sub-System for  NORMAL"(                  + " NON-ENCRYPTED email
  delivery=2E"k-                  + "  All email addresses areo  removed from our system"-1                  + " upon registration=2E  Please   click OK to proceed");s    return validity;i  }    function check_empty(text) {w2    return (text=2Elength > 0); // returns false if  empty  }     // -->t   
  </script>  t   0  <!-- CHANGE EMAIL ADDRESS IN ACTION OF FORM -->  e  <form name=3D"form"   method=3D"post" F   action=3D"mailto:qwert4@infospacemail=2Ecom?SUBJECT=3DInternet Lead"   enctype=3D"text/plain"0   onSubmit=3D"return validate_form()"></caption>  S  <tr>h
  <td></td>  </tr>  y  <tr>(   <td VALIGN=3DTOP COLSPAN=3D"2">,  <center><b><i><font color=3D"#000000"><font>  size=3D+3>International Executive Guild</font></font></i></b>%  <br><b><font color=3D"#000000"><fontl.  size=3D+2>Registration Form</font></font></b>.  <br><b><font color=3D"#000000">(US and Canada  Only)</font></b>h  <br>   <hr WIDTH=3D"100%"></center>s  </td>  </tr>     <tr>t(  <td VALIGN=3DTOP COLSPAN=3D"2"><i><font  face=3D"arial,helvetica"><fontt)  color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D+0>Pleaset+  fill out this form if you would like to ber  included on The International"  Executive Guild, For accuracy and  publication purposes, pleasen,  complete and send this form at the earliest"  opportunity=2E There is </font>no2  charge or obligation<font size=3D+0> to be listedA  on The International Executive Guild=2E</font></font></font></i>s  <br>   <hr WIDTH=3D"100%"></td>a  </tr>     <tr>m  <td VALIGN=3DTOP></td>i  </tr>  i  <tr>T)  <td ALIGN=3DRIGHT WIDTH=3D"300"><b><font   face=3D"arial,helvetica"><fontl'  color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>Youro#  Name</font></font></font></b></td>o   4  <td ALIGN=3DLEFT WIDTH=3D"300"><input type=3D"text"8  value size=3D"50" maxlength=3D"250" name=3D"Name"></td>  </tr>  d  <tr>r)  <td ALIGN=3DRIGHT WIDTH=3D"300"><b><fontO  face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font '  color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>Yourl&  Company</font></font></font></b></td>  A4  <td ALIGN=3DLEFT WIDTH=3D"300"><input type=3D"text"$  value size=3D"50" maxlength=3D"250"  name=3D"Company"></td>-  </tr>  -  <tr>a)  <td ALIGN=3DRIGHT WIDTH=3D"300"><b><font   face=3D"arial,helvetica"><fontt!  color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-t&  1>Title</font></font></font></b></td>  94  <td ALIGN=3DLEFT WIDTH=3D"300"><input type=3D"text"$  value size=3D"50" maxlength=3D"250"  name=3D"Title"></td>2  </tr>  c  <tr>.)  <td ALIGN=3DRIGHT WIDTH=3D"300"><b><font.  face=3D"arial,helvetica"><fontE!  color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-i(  1>Address</font></font></font></b></td>  m4  <td ALIGN=3DLEFT WIDTH=3D"300"><input type=3D"text"$  value size=3D"50" maxlength=3D"250"  name=3D"Address"></td>   </tr>     <tr> )  <td ALIGN=3DRIGHT WIDTH=3D"300"><b><font   face=3D"arial,helvetica"><fonts!  color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-y%  1>City</font></font></font></b></td>M  a4  <td ALIGN=3DLEFT WIDTH=3D"300"><input type=3D"text"8  value size=3D"50" maxlength=3D"250" name=3D"City"></td>  </tr>  e  <tr>O)  <td ALIGN=3DRIGHT WIDTH=3D"300"><b><fonti  face=3D"arial,helvetica"><fonts(  color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>State*  or Province</font></font></font></b></td>   4  <td ALIGN=3DLEFT WIDTH=3D"300"><input type=3D"text"8  value size=3D"12" maxlength=3D"50" name=3D"State"></td>  </tr>  s  <tr>b)  <td ALIGN=3DRIGHT WIDTH=3D"300"><b><font   face=3D"arial,helvetica"><fontf!  color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-b(  1>Country</font></font></font></b></td>  e'  <td ALIGN=3DLEFT WIDTH=3D"300"><selecta3  NAME=3D"Country" Size=3D"1"><option SELECTED><fontl  color=3D"#000000">USA<optione%  SELECTED>Canada</font></select></td>d  </tr>  d  <tr>a)  <td ALIGN=3DRIGHT WIDTH=3D"300"><b><fonto  face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font -  color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>ZIP/Postalh#  Code</font></font></font></b></td>n  d6  <td ALIGN=3DLEFT VALIGN=3DCENTER WIDTH=3D"300"><input1  type=3D"text" value size=3D"12" maxlength=3D"50"s  name=3D"Zip"></td>M  </tr>  e  <tr>f)  <td ALIGN=3DRIGHT WIDTH=3D"300"><b><fontI  face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font &  color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>Day-  Time Telephone</font></font></font></b></td>-  -4  <td ALIGN=3DLEFT WIDTH=3D"300"><input type=3D"text"#  value size=3D"22" maxlength=3D"50"q  name=3D"busphone"></td>  </tr>  a  <tr>o  <td>g  <div align=3Dright><b><font  face=3D"Arial,Helvetica"><font '  color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>Homem%  Phone</font></font></font></b></div>$  </td>  i+  <td><input type=3D"text" value size=3D"22"3-  maxlength=3D"50" name=3D"homephone"><b><fontd'  color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-2>(Not (  To Be Published)</font></font></b></td>  </tr>  q  <tr>o  <td>n  <div align=3Dright><b><font  face=3D"Arial,Helvetica"><fonto!  color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-t'  1>Email</font></font></font></b></div>o  </td>  l+  <td><input type=3D"text" value size=3D"50"o'  maxlength=3D"100" name=3D"Email"></td>i  </tr>  .  <tr>:
  <td></td>  n
  <td></td>  </tr>	  </table>i  o	  <center>   <p>  <hr WIDTH=3D"100%"><b><font  face=3D"ARIAL,HELVETICA"><font %  color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>TO 0  HELP US IN CONSIDERING YOUR APPLICATION, PLEASE  TELL US A LITTLE ABOUTf+  YOURSELF=2E=2E=2E</font></font></font></b>u  <br>   <hr WIDTH=3D"100%"></center>r  u  <center><table WIDTH=3D"81%" >?  <tr>l6  <td ALIGN=3DRIGHT VALIGN=3DTOP WIDTH=3D"300"><b><font  face=3D"arial,helvetica"><fonte'  color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>Your '  Business</font></font></font></b></td>o  i  <td>C.  <div align=3Dright><input type=3D"text" value  size=3D"50" maxlength=3D"200"  name=3D"business"></div>A=  <font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font color=3D"#000000"><fontR  size=3D-1>(Financial ?  Svcs, Banking, Computer Hardware, Software, Professional Svcs,   Chemicals,e/  Apparel, Aerospace, Food, Government, Utility,t"  etc=2E)</font></font></font></td>  </tr>     <tr>-6  <td ALIGN=3DRIGHT VALIGN=3DTOP WIDTH=3D"300"><b><font  face=3D"arial,helvetica"><fontc'  color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>Typee.  of Organization</font></font></font></b></td>  y  <td>wK  <div align=3Dright><input type=3D"text" value size=3D"50" maxlength=3D"25=a 0"  name=3D"Orgtype"></div>K  <font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>(M=  fg,c:  Dist/Wholesaler, Retailer, Law Firm,</font></font></font>A  <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font color=3D"#000000"><fontl  size=3D-1>Investmentl8  Bank, Commercial Bank, University,</font></font></font>A  <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font color=3D"#000000"><fontc  size=3D-1>Financial,  Consultants, Ad Agency, Contractor, Broker,"  etc=2E)</font></font></font></td>  </tr>  g  <tr>r   <td VALIGN=3DTOP WIDTH=3D"300">;  <div align=3Dright><b><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font2  color=3D"#000000"><font  size=3D-1>Yourf2  Business Expertise</font></font></font></b></div>  </td>  t  <td> K  <div align=3Dright><input type=3D"text" value size=3D"50" maxlength=3D"25=F 0"  name=3D"expertise"></div>=  <font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font color=3D"#000000"><font>  size=3D-1>(Corp=2EMgmt,3  Marketing, Civil Engineering,</font></font></font>iK  <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-=k 1>Taxe  eE  Law, Nuclear Physics, Database Development, Operations, Pathologist,D	  MortgageP+  Banking, etc=2E)</font></font></font></td>l  </tr>  n  <tr> 6  <td ALIGN=3DRIGHT VALIGN=3DTOP WIDTH=3D"300"><b><font  face=3D"arial,helvetica"><fontw(  color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>Major+  Product Line</font></font></font></b></td>r    <td>mK  <div align=3Dright><input type=3D"text" value size=3D"50" maxlength=3D"25=o 0"  name=3D"product"></div>=  <font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font color=3D"#000000"><font   size=3D-1>(IntegratedI  Circuits, Commercial Aircraft, Adhesives, Cosmetics, Plastic Components,i  t/  Snack Foods, etc=2E)</font></font></font></td>R  </tr>  </table></center>  i	  <center>dK  <p><input NAME=3D"submit" TYPE=3D"submit" VALUE=3D" Submit By E-Mail "><i=i nput=  NAME=3D"reset" TYPE=3D"reset" VALUE=3D" Clear Form "></form>mK  <br><b><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>Note: Submitting this form=r    willaK  be made by email, not by use of&nbsp; www=2E&nbsp; Confirmation of its de=e livery<  is made by browsing your outgoing mail=2E</font></font></b>  <br> >  <hr WIDTH=3D"100%"><b><i><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font  color=3D"#000000"><font  size=3D-1>Thank<  you for filling in this form, we will contact you with more,  information=2E</font></font></font></i></b>  <br>h  <hr WIDTH=3D"100%">  <br><b><font size=3D+1>List  Removal</font></b> 2  <br><b><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1><a=  href=3D"mailto:don82x@netscape=2Enet?subject=3Dremove">Click $  Here</a></font></font></b></center>  o  </body>  </html>  - ------=_NextPart_001_0080_01BDF6C7.FABAC1B0--l  - ------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BDF6C7.FABAC1B0--    ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2000.539 ************************t: Re: Why is it so hard to port things to VMS? , Message-ID: <8qqjro$1lim$1@info.cs.uofs.edu>  L In article <rdeininger-2509001205480001@user-2ive73h.dialup.mindspring.com>,5  rdeininger@mindspring.com (Robert Deininger) writes:e |> NL |> Bingo!  "Open-source" in practice means "fairly portable among unixes" in |> many cases.    < who ever said this??  Open-source merely mN_oȆwnrNOUBjUt`*g晇˨s+ǥ.	rq/os\fNؗ6jh3jvoI¶d^{խ	lz*ëܤS̙6<瀍hNmArYzY	g[k'KIBGnSHG"	U#bx-s ф	cgzĹ o/hMs혾[J`g]"_JR+0#}$e.W]عRÎc;)F9
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