1 INFO-VAX	Wed, 04 Apr 2001	Volume 2001 : Issue 188       Contents: Re: $ PRODUCT INSTALL DECSET Re: $ PRODUCT INSTALL DECSET Re: Alpha Manuals  Re: Changing DECwindows colors/ Re: Christof a bot (was: "cut" utility for VMS) / Re: Christof a bot (was: "cut" utility for VMS) & Re: Cloning a system from VAX to Alpha Re: Compaq getting the message?  Datatrieve installation failed> Re: EV7 and EV8 for the low end (was: VMS-Related: Affordable)> Re: EV7 and EV8 for the low end (was: VMS-Related: Affordable)> Re: EV7 and EV8 for the low end (was: VMS-Related: Affordable)> Re: EV7 and EV8 for the low end (was: VMS-Related: Affordable)  free disk space on a bound disks Re: Free The OpenVMS Seven!  Re: Free The OpenVMS Seven! M Re: HELP:  specifying command-line arguments with a user-developed    program F HELP:  specifying command-line arguments with a user-developed programP Re: HELP:  specifying command-line arguments with a user-developed program progrA Re: How to tell if a system is booting immediately after a crash.  HP printers and blank pages  Re: HP printers and blank pages  Re: Merging DCLTABLES.EXE P Re: Of Downsizing and R&D (was Re: Windows 2000 non proprietary according to Com OT: User Friendly link PC software for 10$/cd: product announcement: the rebirth of DateSim (version 2.1) pthreads + printf  Re: pthreads + printf : Re: Seeking CD-R/CD-RW SCSI INQUIRY data / Yamaha CRW4416S: Re: Seeking CD-R/CD-RW SCSI INQUIRY data / Yamaha CRW4416S Re: Spice for OpenVMS Alpha? Re: Spice for OpenVMS Alpha? Re: Spice for OpenVMS Alpha? Re: Spice for OpenVMS Alpha?0 TCPIP V5.0A install fails, can't proceed; ideas? VAX Debugger command. 
 Re: VAX in 1U 
 Re: VAX in 1U 
 Re: VAX in 1U  Re: VMS-Related: Affordable  Re: VMS-Related: Affordable  Re: VMS-Related: Affordable  Re: VMS-Related: Affordable ) Re: When might SYS$SCHDWK not wake me up? ) Re: When might SYS$SCHDWK not wake me up? 5 Re: Windows 2000 non proprietary according to Compaq! 5 Re: Windows 2000 non proprietary according to Compaq! 5 Re: Windows 2000 non proprietary according to Compaq!   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 19:10:33 GMT 8 From: hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond)% Subject: Re: $ PRODUCT INSTALL DECSET 2 Message-ID: <Jepy6.505$fB6.14506@news.cpqcorp.net>  C In article <5.0.2.1.0.20010403093416.00a02110@mail.selkirk.bc.ca>,  ) Dick Wolff <rwolff@selkirk.bc.ca> writes:    >How do I install DECSET?  .. >Directory   >DQA0:[DECSET124.KIT] K >DECSET124.A;1       DECSET124.B;1       DECSET124.C;1       DECSET124.D;1  K >DECSET124.E;1       DECSET124.F;1       DECSET124.G;1       DECSET124.H;1  7 >DECSET124.I;1       DECSET124.J;1       DECSET124.K;1    L The PRODUCT INSTALL command works only with POLYCENTER Software InstallationF (PCSI) utility kits.  What you have is a VMSINSTAL kit.  Try something
 like this:  #     @sys$update:VMSINSTAL.COM DECET    --  K     Charlie Hammond -- Compaq Computer Corporation -- Pompano Beach  FL USA H        (hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net -- remove "@not" when replying)J       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer's.   ------------------------------    Date: 04 Apr 2001 03:08:30 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>% Subject: Re: $ PRODUCT INSTALL DECSET - Message-ID: <87bsqdrec1.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   ) Dick Wolff <rwolff@selkirk.bc.ca> writes:   ) > How do I install DECSET? Then I issue a  > 	$ PRODUCT INSTALL DECSET  > I get the following: >  > $ mount/over=id dqa0, > %MOUNT-I-WRITELOCK, volume is write locked8 > %MOUNT-I-MOUNTED, AXPBINDEC003 mounted on _DS20E$DQA0:$ > $ set default dqa0:[decset124.kit] > $ dir  >   > Directory DQA0:[DECSET124.KIT] > 7 > DECSET124.A;1       DECSET124.B;1       DECSET124.C;1 E > DECSET124.D;1 DECSET124.E;1       DECSET124.F;1       DECSET124.G;1 E > DECSET124.H;1 DECSET124.I;1       DECSET124.J;1       DECSET124.K;1  > Total of 11 files. > $ product install decset   @sys$update:vmsinstal decset  E log out nad log back in, or do it in a sub-process. It will nuke your  symbols etc...   --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 23:46:59 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>  Subject: Re: Alpha Manuals, Message-ID: <3ACBB273.E052A7EC@infopuls.com>   Tim Sneddon wrote: > N > Disregard the previous e-mail, I was lucky enough to have found another copy( > floating around one of my machines. :) >  > Tim. >  > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tim Sneddon ) > > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 3:07 PM  > > To: Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Com  > > Subject: Alpha Manuals > >  > > : > > I, up until today, had a collection of Alpha processor > > manuals that I quite? > > accidentaly deleted with no hope of return. I got these off  > > of the Compaq > > > site, which has been re-designed once again, so as you can > > probably guess, ? > > they're not there any more. If anyone happens to have them,  > > or a link, or @ > > anything I would really appreciate it as I would like to get > > them back. > >  > > Thanks, Tim. > >    Would you send them to me?? Yes, I know, I probably took you hours to collect them, but you . will another backup if you send them to me ;-)   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 00:02:02 +0100 ; From: Malcolm MacArthur <malcolmm@rustic-place.demon.co.uk> ' Subject: Re: Changing DECwindows colors 8 Message-ID: <3ACA566A.3C3977DF@rustic-place.demon.co.uk>   Tom Linden wrote:  > K > Am running 6.2 and when I try to changie the colors from the options pull M > down it seems to work, but says that it will only take effect withnew apps. G > So launching emacs verifies that it does, but a new decwindow doesn't I > change.  I close the session log back in and nothing has changed.  This  > shouldn't be so difficult. >  > What is the trick?H Are you running a remote display to a PC, say, using Exceed? I have seen	 a similar < situation which occurs whenever the server is not set to use PseudoColor, for some  bizarre reason.   E Perhaps (if you are running it locally) there is some sort of similar 
 problem here.   H This can also happen if you are running X remotely and start the session
 in certainG ways which stop it inheriting a full process environment, so it doesn't 
 know whereH SYS$LOGIN: is and so can't find your CDE configuration files - such as a command E file run by RSH which fires off a detached process (the method I use, 	 but I get E the detached process to specifically run SYLOGIN.COM and LOGIN.COM to  set everythingG up, and explicitly DEFINE/JOB SYS$LOGIN and SYS$SCRATCH based on values  obtained6 by the first command file, which was launched by RSH).  ? Hope some of that helps (or points you in the right direction),  Malcolm.   >  > TIA    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2001 14:30:17 -0500 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 8 Subject: Re: Christof a bot (was: "cut" utility for VMS)3 Message-ID: <J4mecbMQ1oi1@eisner.encompasserve.org>   _ In article <3APR01.15114259@feda01.fed.ornl.gov>, Dave Greenwood <greenwoodde@ornl.gov> writes:  > & > F$EDIT and F$ELEMENT come to mind... >   G These are simple character processing functions which can be built from @ the native abilities of any high level language, most high level+ language's libraries, and/or STR$ routines.   F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2001 14:32:28 -0500 - From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) 8 Subject: Re: Christof a bot (was: "cut" utility for VMS)3 Message-ID: <66qj6Fth5C3a@eisner.encompasserve.org>   h In article <OFA4C6C96F.8C0FDF48-ON88256A23.005DC6BF@foundation.com>, Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com writes: > M > You can retrieve the name of the calling command procedure using a lexical, G > but not an API call. That is the only one that comes to mind, though.  >  > Shane  >   H Mikes sense.  That data is only really known within the CLI and the CLI$ routines don't go there.  F ----------------------------------------------------------------------? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporation = NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil Group E                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replying    ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 20:40:18 +0100, From: "Ste" <ste@NOSPAMthe-neuk.demon.co.uk>/ Subject: Re: Cloning a system from VAX to Alpha A Message-ID: <986326998.29301.0.nnrp-10.c1edbfcc@news.demon.co.uk>   H > > Hmm, not so simple as I thought then! Do I remember a way of merging > > SYSUAF.DAT files?  > >  > H > SORT/MERGE will do it (see help merge).  You get to resolve duplicatesD > by hand, but I think the first file in the merge takes precedence.  I I once merged a sysuas file (that's the pathworks one?) and ended up with   two empty files. Boss not happy.   ------------------------------    Date: 04 Apr 2001 04:07:20 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>( Subject: Re: Compaq getting the message?- Message-ID: <87puetpx1j.fsf@prep.synonet.com>   6 "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes:  4 > "Alan Greig" <a.greig@virgin.net> wrote in message4 > news:um5jctob83kqa05etgrrqhuq20392889vu@4ax.com...  ? > > Anyone else seen signs of change locally either positive or 
 > > negative?   I Well, there is a new readable first page on the web site! Seems to be the K only one though... And THC still have it full of java script crap, and lack 
 usefull info.   E > At the worldwide industry analyst conference last September, Compaq D > stressed (or attempted to stress) the fact that it's an enterpriseB > vendor, not just a peecee company. The January financial analystE > conference (the subject of much vitriol in this forum) attempted to D > convey the same message. The 2FQ earnings announcement on 24 AprilD > should shed additional light on where the P in the P&L comes from,) > and for sure it isn't the peecee space.   F And are now telling everyone how wonderfull the new 4 and 6U net boxesH will be! So they can join in the dot bomb as well as the PC crunch. Yep,  that seems about right for them.  F > Is Compaq getting the message, especially with respect to marketing?F > Only Compaq knows for sure, but note that Doug Fox, the Senior VP ofF > Strategy and Marketing who was hired last August, resigned effective@ > 15 March. The strategy portfolio went to Jesse Greene, who wasF > kicked upstairs from his CFO position. Kay Hart now manages marcomm.  D But on the other side of the cion, if I was callig the shots at TheyE wHo are Clueless, I would not be letting a smell of a low end assault D out till all the ducks where in a row. And that takes a lot of time.  A The finacial pressure will be really on all over, semi sales have C slipped 13.9% since Dec, and the x86 market players are fragmenting ? even more than usual. So it is going to get really tight there.   A But, I'm hopfull enough to try to get the local LUG restarted....    --  < Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda. @                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 14:33:31 -0700 ' From: Dick Wolff <rwolff@selkirk.bc.ca> ' Subject: Datatrieve installation failed ? Message-ID: <MPBBJKPHDILDKBPEBOKGOEGHEFAA.rwolff@selkirk.bc.ca>   , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C0BC4B.0E45D300  Content-Type: text/plain;  	charset="iso-8859-1"  Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit     When I installed Datatrieve with9     $ @SYS$UPDATE:VMSINSTAL DTRAXPA DQA0:[DTRAXPA072.KIT] 
 I receivedB     %DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined sysmbol - check validity and spelling     \DTR$DEFINE_DDMF\ F     %VMSINSTAL-E-INSFAIL, The installation of DTRAXPA V7.2 has failed., I selected the defaults in the installation.5 The line before the above in the installation log was >     * Do you plan to install this version more than once [NO]?  F I had previously installed LSE and FMS on an Alpha (DS20E) running VMS 7.2-1.  
 Any ideas?   Dick Wolff, Computer Services  Selkirk College  Castlegar, BC  Canada   + ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C0BC4B.0E45D300  Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>7 <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =  charset=3Diso-8859-1">@ <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY>J <DIV><SPAN class=3D110592321-03042001><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>When I = installed=20# Datatrieve with</FONT></SPAN></DIV> @ <DIV><SPAN class=3D110592321-03042001>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT = face=3DArial size=3D2>$=20G @SYS$UPDATE:VMSINSTAL DTRAXPA DQA0:[DTRAXPA072.KIT]</FONT></SPAN></DIV> F <DIV><SPAN class=3D110592321-03042001><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I=20 received</FONT></SPAN></DIV>@ <DIV><SPAN class=3D110592321-03042001>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT = face=3DArial=20 A size=3D2>%DCL-W-UNDSYM, undefined sysmbol - check validity and=20  spelling</FONT></SPAN></DIV>@ <DIV><SPAN class=3D110592321-03042001>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT = face=3DArial=20 . size=3D2>\DTR$DEFINE_DDMF\</FONT></SPAN></DIV>: <DIV><SPAN class=3D110592321-03042001><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20B %VMSINSTAL-E-INSFAIL,&nbsp;The installation of DTRAXPA V7.2 has=20 failed.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> : <DIV><SPAN class=3D110592321-03042001><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>I&nbsp;selected the=20 6 defaults&nbsp;in the installation.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>G <DIV><SPAN class=3D110592321-03042001><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The =  line before the=205 above in the installation log was</FONT></SPAN></DIV> @ <DIV><SPAN class=3D110592321-03042001>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT = face=3DArial size=3D2>*=204 Do you plan to install this version more than once = [NO]?</FONT></SPAN></DIV> ; <DIV><SPAN class=3D110592321-03042001><FONT face=3DArial=20 # size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> I <DIV><SPAN class=3D110592321-03042001><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I had = 
 previously=20 = installed LSE and FMS&nbsp;on an Alpha (DS20E) running VMS=20  7.2-1.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>; <DIV><SPAN class=3D110592321-03042001><FONT face=3DArial=20 # size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> H <DIV><SPAN class=3D110592321-03042001><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any=20 ideas?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>; <DIV><SPAN class=3D110592321-03042001><FONT face=3DArial=20 # size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> H <DIV><SPAN class=3D110592321-03042001><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dick = Wolff, Computer=20 Services</FONT></SPAN></DIV>: <DIV><SPAN class=3D110592321-03042001><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>Selkirk=20  College</FONT></SPAN></DIV> : <DIV><SPAN class=3D110592321-03042001><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>Castlegar, BC&nbsp;=20 ( Canada</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>  - ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C0BC4B.0E45D300--    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2001 15:51:44 -0500 9 From: Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) G Subject: Re: EV7 and EV8 for the low end (was: VMS-Related: Affordable) 3 Message-ID: <rSb4aG17WbGR@eisner.encompasserve.org>   j In article <1Ymy6.496$fB6.14386@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: > F > Paul Repacholi wrote in message <87r8za6tqy.fsf@prep.synonet.com>.../ >>young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:  >>C >>Is the EV8 constrained to run all the threads in a single process - >>context?  Or is it nearer a multi-CPU chip?  >> >  > L > At the simplest level, EV8 can be treated by the OS as 4 independent CPUs.5 > With each "thread" appearing as an independent CPU.   A But wouldn't such use suffer from the various threads not sharinge< an address space (tromping on cache in different fashions) ?   ------------------------------    Date: 04 Apr 2001 03:29:38 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>G Subject: Re: EV7 and EV8 for the low end (was: VMS-Related: Affordable) - Message-ID: <873dbprdct.fsf@prep.synonet.com>g  - young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:l  < > 	blocking and non-blocking... ,etc.  This PS answers that: > > > http://www.cs.washington.edu/research/smt/papers/compaqMF.ps > A > 	If a thread is spinning waiting on resource, it excuses itself @ > 	and puts itself back on the queue.  This was one of the nicer? > 	wrinkles (it seems) to making SMT work well.  There is a tone> > 	more technical detail at this URL and I believe most or all= > 	of your questions will be answered by the pubs found here:e > , > http://www.cs.washington.edu/research/smt/  C I gor most of them a while back, but missed that set of slides. Ther" idling a spin lock is real nice...  > The urls Rob gave are a near must read, btw. Really good info.   -- i< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.o@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 13:37:49 -0700S! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.com G Subject: Re: EV7 and EV8 for the low end (was: VMS-Related: Affordable) D Message-ID: <OF35219950.3D8D7791-ON88256A23.00712BF8@foundation.com>  K Part of the implementation is marking pieces of information and instructiondK fragments as belonging to particular threads. The Alpha's existing register C renaming came in quite useful apparently, with a little "thread id"e
 extension.   Shanee          J Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen) on 04/03/2001 01:51:44 PM  E Please respond to Kilgallen@eisner.decus.org.nospam (Larry Kilgallen)o   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Como cc:a  H Subject:  Re: EV7 and EV8 for the low end (was: VMS-Related: Affordable)    D In article <1Ymy6.496$fB6.14386@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge"% <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes:  > F > Paul Repacholi wrote in message <87r8za6tqy.fsf@prep.synonet.com>.../ >>young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:5 >>C >>Is the EV8 constrained to run all the threads in a single process2- >>context?  Or is it nearer a multi-CPU chip?s >> >b >aF > At the simplest level, EV8 can be treated by the OS as 4 independent CPUs.T5 > With each "thread" appearing as an independent CPU.C  A But wouldn't such use suffer from the various threads not sharingC< an address space (tromping on cache in different fashions) ?   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 22:28:19 +0000 ) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>iG Subject: Re: EV7 and EV8 for the low end (was: VMS-Related: Affordable) , Message-ID: <3ACBA003.2B8B485D@infopuls.com>   Larry Kilgallen wrote: > l > In article <1Ymy6.496$fB6.14386@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Fred Kleinsorge" <kleinsorge@star.zko.dec.com> writes: > >pH > > Paul Repacholi wrote in message <87r8za6tqy.fsf@prep.synonet.com>...1 > >>young_r@encompasserve.org (Rob Young) writes:  > >>E > >>Is the EV8 constrained to run all the threads in a single processj/ > >>context?  Or is it nearer a multi-CPU chip?8 > >> > >s > >pN > > At the simplest level, EV8 can be treated by the OS as 4 independent CPUs.7 > > With each "thread" appearing as an independent CPU.  > C > But wouldn't such use suffer from the various threads not sharing > > an address space (tromping on cache in different fashions) ?  7 I read some of the papers though didn't understand them @ completely. But I thought one of idea was to let the CPU threads= execute different programs that normally don't share the same27 address space. The CPU is able to detect address access2> conflicts and will act appropriately if they happen. Wrt cache@ hit rate or cache turnover I don't see how this is solved. There> might be a way to offer only a limited amount of cache to each8 of the CPU threads that one thread isn't able to replace@ another's cache contents. Of course the cache regions have to be3 synchronised if they serve the same memory regions.    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2001 12:48:42 GMT ) From: mike.price@nospam@littlewoods.co.uk-) Subject: free disk space on a bound disksp* Message-ID: <9acgra$lfi$1@news.netmar.com>  I We have just set up a bound volume containing 20 disks in one big volume.2N I have created several very big files on the volume but I can't see any way ofA determining how much disk space is left except by doing a dir/siz K Normally "sho dev d" would give free disk space but in this case it appears ? all the volumes in the bound volume set are still totally free. K Is there some way of getting "sho dev d" to work or have I missed somethingi  H  I have done this before but it was a long time ago on VMS6.?? - I don't= remember it not working then but maybe my memory has failed??   	 As alwaysa   TIA    Mike    O  -----  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  ----- M   http://newsone.net/ -- Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groupsnI    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts L made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email abuse@newsone.net   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 22:45:57 +0000s) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>-$ Subject: Re: Free The OpenVMS Seven!, Message-ID: <3ACBA425.E14178FF@infopuls.com>   Christopher Smith wrote: >  > > -----Original Message-----4 > > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com]   [SNIP]  M > Point taken, and as Steven Scheda(I certainly hope I spelled that properly) M > pointed out to me, old cars have their bad features as well.  I'm still noteN > sure how appropriate the metaphor was , but in all seriousness, I was making# > a joke about the car metaphor. :)t > 
 > Regards, >  > Christ > # > Christopher Smith, Perl Developers > Amdocs - Champaign, IL >  > /usr/bin/perl -e 'A > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");i > '   > Honestly, I hate metaphors or analogies or examples from other# areas although I used them shortly. @ I hate them because they seem to prove or explain something what? in fact they cannot do. And each time I think a little bit more ; they reveal their limitations to serve as vehicle to really ? understand what's going on. They can from my point of view onlye; be used to sort of explain something to someone who has notl> enough technical knowledge to really understand the technique.? Scientist used to try understanding things they couldn't reallys> imagine by using models taken from different areas (like balls> instead of atoms or electrons, protons and neutrons). But from@ my observation mainly the abstraction mostly done by mathematics@ really advanced the knowledge. Only when Albert Einstein decided= against the "common sense" of speed addition and in favour of-? the mathematical formalism "Die allgemeine Relativittstheorie"p< was born which from my point of view is severely against the@ human intuition and observation of speed addition and homogenous? time, i.e. one and the same time at all places in the universe.a   :-)n   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 23:20:37 +0000n) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>e$ Subject: Re: Free The OpenVMS Seven!, Message-ID: <3ACBAC45.8494F38D@infopuls.com>   Christopher Smith wrote: >  > > -----Original Message-----4 > > From: Christof Brass [mailto:brass@infopuls.com] > D > > Okay then: the objection came from abuse of oo. Occam's Razor isB > > the measure. If oo makes things more complicated than it's the@ > > wrong technique for a given task. My experience was *always*@ > > that the complex program systems I have to deal with (mostly> > > implemented with C or C++) were much more complicated than> > > necessary because oo wasn't used or not used correctly. If > N > You can say that again.  I think that quite a bit (though not all -- I'm notN > saying that "OO" languages can't be designed in a better way) of the problemN > people have in OO languages is in the fact that their programmers understand< > neither the language nor the machine for which they build.  ? Objection, your honour! :-) Only against the last part "nor the ? machine for which they build". I claim that if the abstractions.@ are well taken and the language implementation is appropriate we; shouldn't bother much about the HW details. This is exactly > what's abstraction is all about: not having to take care about> details which shouldn't be important for the task at hand on a; specific level. That is the idea of stepwise refinement ande	 layering.r  B > > you've *studied* the GoF book "Design Patterns" you would know@ > > that design an oo framework is one of the hardest tasks. The > 4 > You'll also get no argument from me on this point.   :-)s  @ > > Another important point is that most of the so called oo PLs; > > only offer half way oo, e.g. C++ was called oo from theeD > > beginning whereas it lacked (and still lacks) important features= > > of the oo paradigm. Don't blame oo if the wrong oo fails.f > K > Bjarne Stroustrup has said on several occasions that C++ is not, strictlypL > speaking, an "object oriented" language. (Though is _possible_ to write OO0 > code in C++)  People just won't listen to him.   Objection, your honour!s< I studied the paper by Bjarne Stroustrup which came with the? first AT&T C++ compiler (preprocessor). I have it still and can"@ quote from it. Out of my memory it was quite amusing to read and= culminated in the subtle statement that you can program in oon= way in every language but there is a big difference between as; language which allows you to program oo with or in it and a   language that *supports* it. :-)  ? And he claimed that C++ were supporting oo quite well. Maybe het changed his mind later ...@ Could you give exactly a reference? I you like me to do it first> I'll do it because it will take me about 15 minutes of digging> out my material from my college time (and another 5 minutes to store it back again).   C > > But again: I insist in my question about "knowing how computersg@ > > really work". I'm sure that it is a misconception to avoid a? > > level of abstraction because it widens the distance betweene? > > written source and machine instructions because it would be B > > difficult to define the appropriate separation line to justifyC > > the use of an abstraction given by the PL C but not Ada and nota > I > I think that he might be complaining about the lack of understanding inwJ > people who write the programs, and viewing that as a feature of the moreN > abstract language.  Of course, it's not the languages fault exclusively, andJ > certainly abstraction is the right way to go in many cases, but somebodyK > should ensure that new programmers get exposure to a variety of languages C > and paradigms so that their understanding is as good as possible.s  @ Well balanced statement! Nothing to say against that :-) except,< that you are using a quite smart way of arguing on behalf of someone else ;-)> It seems that we all agree on the fact that oo is powerful but6 difficult to master because it needs training and full understanding.  I > In a sense, the argument should be for better education of programmers.t   !!  L > I personally see the same problems, but I believe the cause is that peopleL > are now unwilling to take the time to really understand the computers withN > which they work.  There are a lot of interfaces which will give the end-userG > completely wrong ideas about the underlying system (Macintosh desktop3F > metaphor, anyone?  Perhaps even more sinister ... device abstractionM > libraries.  I don't claim these things are bad -- I like them in many caseskA > -- but they lead to misconception.), and a larger percentage of_M > "programmers" these days don't even think to challenge those ideas in their- > own minds.  = Very well presented points! This seems to be also a claim for ; better documentation of the interfaces and how to use them. > Did you complain about the Mac desktop metaphor? I think about7 buying one of these cool Titan PowerBooks if MacOS X isS installed as default.o  @ > > Moreover I additionally insist that lean oo isn't farer awayC > > from the CPU than any other compiled or interpreted language asoB > > opposed to CPU specific assembly language. If you are using an> > > abstract PL (abstract in the sense that you don't know theC > > target CPU from the PL's point of view) you can't tell what the B > > CPU really does unless you analyse the compiler/code generator< > > and accept the constraint of focusing only on one target > > processor family.o > G > It depends on the OO language, and the language you compare with.  InNF > general, though, you're right.  I wouldn't say that SmallTalk is any2 > "further away from the CPU" than Pascal, really.  $ Seems that we understand each other.  & > OO techniques only add to the set ofN > "this-is-a-metaphor-and-is-not-exactly-how-the-computer-sees-this" facets of > any high-level language. > L > For instance, when you have a function which is buried in the hierarchy of% > objects such that you call it thus:A > , > MyObject.SomeInheretedClass.SomeFunction() >  > (oversimplification here...)N > It is most likely compiled into just a plain jump.  The "hierarchy" there isK > purely a linguistic device.  It shows which bits of previous work, if you 6 > will, we've called upon in setting this "object" up.  : This is a good and a bad example at the same time. I would: suggest to remove the "SomeInertedClass." part of the call> because exactly this is a major aspect against oo: you burn in@ the class and by that you prevent dynamic binding. The classical< oo call is in some respect different from a normal procedure> call in that it executed indirectly by means of a pointer to a< method table. This is a very powerfull trick which allows to: combine the advantages of procedures (hard wired) and data@ (changable at runtime). So the very same code is able to execute? different procedure calls depending on the object which will be<
 processed.  9 If you have to deal with the "history" of your class, the @ ancesters, too deeply the design is wrong. As one of the famoust7 programming scientist said: oo should be called subjecta@ orientation or distributed control, i.e. good oo design leads to; a situation where you only program incrementally and with aN; local point of view. Self-evident we need an oo framwork toS> bring oo to its full power and to justify the described way of	 thinking.I  J > That's not a bad thing, and in fact, it's incredibly useful on occasion.N > The problem comes when some person fails to realize that it's an "illusion,"< > just as macros, high-level flow control, and other things.  ? I need an explanation of "illusion". We shouldn't forget that aP> high level PL is an abstraction per se and you even don't know; if the HW is closer to the language than you thought - everT7 heard about Java-In-Silicon? Do you remember the frenchN
 Pascaline?  C > > Abstraction is the right way to go to increase power, speed anda > > quality of programming.  > I > No argument there -- in projects sufficiently large. (Most of them are,OL > these days. :)  It's a concern of mine, though, that people don't "forget"I > how to live without the more advanced constructs that are in high-levelr > languages.   Back to nature, he? ;-)j( I for one prefere my comfortable bed :-)  N > In other words:  It's always a good idea to pick the right tool for the job.G > The only problem is that to know which is the right tool, you must bel) > familiar with all of the tools at hand.a  8 Very good point. The conclusion is to spend more time on7 learning and tool selection. It should pay off shortly.   I > One should never make the assumption that because this is the tool thatoL > everyone else uses for this job, it is the right tool, or even worse, that< > because this is the only tool I know, it is the right one.   My words ;-)  < I never loved the "one million flies can't be wrong" type of@ argument which led to "nobody got fired for buying IBM (nowadays M$)".h  
 > Regards, >  > Chris  > # > Christopher Smith, Perl Developer  > Amdocs - Champaign, IL >  > /usr/bin/perl -e 'A > print((~"\x95\xc4\xe3"^"Just Another Perl Hacker.")."\x08!\n");: > 'R >t   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 04:44:48 GMT_ From: matessman@yahoo.comuV Subject: Re: HELP:  specifying command-line arguments with a user-developed    program. Message-ID: <3acaa69b.25778995@news.erols.com>  F that did the trick, and i thank you for your post.  of course, as soonA as i saw the phrase "foreign command", i remembered everything...n   ...mike tessmani  , On Wed, 04 Apr 2001 00:30:35 -0400, JF Mezei% <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> wrote:L   >matessman@yahoo.com wrote:o$ >> $ ru import.exe  gss.archive 3500 >p0 >You need to make your program a foreign command >r* >$import :== "$disk:[directory]import.exe" >,	 >and then  >$import gss.archive 3500d   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 03:10:31 GMTd From: matessman@yahoo.com O Subject: HELP:  specifying command-line arguments with a user-developed program-. Message-ID: <3aca8c33.19017803@news.erols.com>  B i'm back in the vms trenches after a long absence to retrieve someF archived data on a VLC4000 workstation that hasn't been used in a long time.e  B i have a user-developed program (named "import") written in c that9 needs two command line arguments.  when i run the programd  ! $ ru import.exe  gss.archive 35005   or  6 $ ru mat01$root:[system.l1]import.exe gss.archive 3500   i get the error messagec  @ %DCL-W-MAXPARM, too many parameters - reenter command with fewer parameters    C i forget how to set up the symbols and/or logicals to be able to doyF this and the softcover "VMS User's Manual" doesn't go to that level of detail.c   any help would be appreciated.   thanks much.   mike tessman matessman@yahoo.come   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 00:30:35 -0400o- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> Y Subject: Re: HELP:  specifying command-line arguments with a user-developed program progr", Message-ID: <3ACAA35D.F13BAC01@videotron.ca>   matessman@yahoo.com wrote:# > $ ru import.exe  gss.archive 3500r  / You need to make your program a foreign commandb  ) $import :== "$disk:[directory]import.exe"d   and then $import gss.archive 3500   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Apr 2001 01:28:28 GMT 5 From: ccburgess@uqstu.jdstory.uq.edu.au (Ian Burgess)sJ Subject: Re: How to tell if a system is booting immediately after a crash.. Message-ID: <9adtbs$qq4$1@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>  _ In article <3AC8D949.281B9C29@pressenter.com>, Lyndon Bartels <lbartels@pressenter.com> writes:-G >I want, during a startup, if the system has gone done as a result of ai) >crash or power outage or... whatever....R >E .a .E .f9 This extract from my startup file addresses roughly that.    $ node = F$getsyi("nodename")   C $ ! Mail an extract from the Crash analysis report if there is one.q $ On error then goto FinishedlO $ search sys$errorlog:clue$'node'*.lis/sin=-0:30 "bugcheck type"/window=(2,9) -r    /out=sys$scratch:bug_rep.tmp E $ mail sys$scratch:bug_rep.tmp SYSTEM /subj="''node' bugcheck report"8! $ delete sys$scratch:bug_rep.tmp;  $Finished:   !     Ian Burgess  University of Queensland I.Burgess@its.uq.edu.au  www.its.uq.edu.aul   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 16:24:00 -0700c' From: Dick Wolff <rwolff@selkirk.bc.ca>U$ Subject: HP printers and blank pages? Message-ID: <MPBBJKPHDILDKBPEBOKGGEGKEFAA.rwolff@selkirk.bc.ca>i  , This is a multi-part message in MIME format.  + ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C0BC5A.7D787A20  Content-Type: text/plain;  	charset="iso-8859-1"t Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   L I can't suppress a leading blank page when I print to an HP LaserJet from an! Alpha (DS20E) running VMS V7.2-1.n  2 Initially my RESET.TXT contained <ESC>]VMS;2<ESC>\F which is what I was using on my old microVAX 3800 running VMS V6.2 and Multinet TCPIP.n  C When this didn't work on the Alpha I checked with Ask The Wizard atdK www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard and read wiz_1020.html. I tried <FF><ESC>E as 
 RESET.TXT. Still got a blank page.e   I then tried> $ DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXECUTIVE TCPIP$TELNETSYM_SUPPRESS_FORMFEEDS 1 and still got a blank page.i   Other supporting info:2 $ show log tcpip$telnetsym_suppress_formfeeds/fullG    "TCPIP$TELNETSYM_SUPPRESS_FORMFEEDS" [exec] = "1" (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)u $ show queue/full cc_laserE Printer queue CC_LASER, idle, on DS20E::"B20-HP5.SELKIRK.BC.CA:9100",  mounted form WHITEBONDB   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FORM=WHITEBOND) /LIBRARY=HP LowercaseJ   /OWNER=[SYSTEM] /PROCESSOR=TCPIP$TELNETSYM /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S)   /RETAIN=ERROR   $ show queue/form/full whitebond9 Form name                            Number   Description 9 ---------                            ------   -----------eI WHITEBOND                                 4   8.5X11 -  80 col, 10 cpi, 6h lpitK     /LENGTH=60 /MARGIN=(BOTTOM=4) /SETUP=(RESET,WHITEBOND) /STOCK=WHITEBONDt     /TRUNCATE /WIDTH=132  
 Any ideas.   Thanks,a   Dick Wolff, Computer Servicese Selkirk Colleged Castlegar, BC  Canadan  + ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C0BC5A.7D787A20u Content-Type: text/html; 	charset="iso-8859-1" + Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printablee  > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD>7 <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =n charset=3Diso-8859-1">@ <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY>E <DIV><SPAN class=3D970195222-03042001><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I =m can't suppress a=20lI leading blank page when I print to an HP LaserJet from an Alpha (DS20E) =e
 running=20 VMS V7.2-1.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>n; <DIV><SPAN class=3D970195222-03042001><FONT face=3DArial=20 # size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>e: <DIV><SPAN class=3D970195222-03042001><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>Initially my=20E RESET.TXT contained &lt;ESC&gt;]VMS;2&lt;ESC&gt;\</FONT></SPAN></DIV>oI <DIV><SPAN class=3D970195222-03042001><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>which =c is what I was=20> using on my old microVAX 3800 running VMS V6.2 and Multinet=20 TCPIP.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>; <DIV><SPAN class=3D970195222-03042001><FONT face=3DArial=20 # size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> H <DIV><SPAN class=3D970195222-03042001><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>When = this didn't=208 work on the Alpha I checked with Ask The Wizard at <A=20J href=3D"http://www.openvms.compaq.com/wizard">www.openvms.compaq.com/wiza=	 rd</A>=20n< and read wiz_1020.html. I tried &lt;FF&gt;&lt;ESC&gt;E as=20 RESET.TXT.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>I <DIV><SPAN class=3D970195222-03042001><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Still =g got a blank=20 page.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>e; <DIV><SPAN class=3D970195222-03042001><FONT face=3DArial=20u# size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>lJ <DIV><SPAN class=3D970195222-03042001><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I then =   tried</FONT></SPAN></DIV>cF <DIV><SPAN class=3D970195222-03042001><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>$=20< DEFINE/SYSTEM/EXECUTIVE TCPIP$TELNETSYM_SUPPRESS_FORMFEEDS = 1&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20 </FONT></SPAN></DIV>G <DIV><SPAN class=3D970195222-03042001><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and =o still got a=20 blank page.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> ; <DIV><SPAN class=3D970195222-03042001><FONT face=3DArial=20-# size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>3I <DIV><SPAN class=3D970195222-03042001><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Other = 
 supporting=20  info:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>3J <DIV><SPAN class=3D970195222-03042001><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>$ show = log=20J tcpip$telnetsym_suppress_formfeeds/full&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=J p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=F ;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20G <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; "TCPIP$TELNETSYM_SUPPRESS_FORMFEEDS" [exec] =3D "1"=20IJ (LNM$SYSTEM_TABLE)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>$ = show=20 
 queue/full=20sJ cc_laser&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=J ;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=J &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=J nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n= bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20c' <BR>Printer queue CC_LASER, idle, on=20yJ DS20E::"B20-HP5.SELKIRK.BC.CA:9100",&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&= nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20 <BR>mounted form=20eJ WHITEBOND&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=J p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=J ;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=J &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=> nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20= <BR>&nbsp; /BASE_PRIORITY=3D4 /DEFAULT=3D(FORM=3DWHITEBOND) =e /LIBRARY=3DHP=20J Lowercase&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs= p;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20t< <BR>&nbsp; /OWNER=3D[SYSTEM] /PROCESSOR=3DTCPIP$TELNETSYM=20J /PROTECTION=3D(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S)&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; =  J /RETAIN=3DERROR&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=J p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=J ;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=J &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=J nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=% bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20c <BR>$ show queue/form/full=20iJ whitebond&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=J p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=J ;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=J &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&= nbsp;&nbsp;=20 <BR>Form=20 J name&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=J sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs= p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=201 Number&nbsp;&nbsp;=20uJ Description&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=I bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20tJ <BR>---------&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=J &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=  nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20 ------&nbsp;&nbsp;=20iJ -----------&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=I bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20hJ <BR>WHITEBOND&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=J &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=> nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20A 4&nbsp;&nbsp; 8.5X11 -&nbsp; 80 col, 10 cpi, 6 lpi&nbsp;&nbsp;=20o< <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; /LENGTH=3D60 /MARGIN=3D(BOTTOM=3D4) = /SETUP=3D(RESET,WHITEBOND)=20aC /STOCK=3DWHITEBOND&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =b /TRUNCATE=20J /WIDTH=3D132&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=J nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=J bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=J sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=5 p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20l <BR></FONT></SPAN></DIV>H <DIV><SPAN class=3D970195222-03042001><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any=20 ideas.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>; <DIV><SPAN class=3D970195222-03042001><FONT face=3DArial=20a# size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>o; <DIV><SPAN class=3D970195222-03042001><FONT face=3DArial=20e$ size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>; <DIV><SPAN class=3D970195222-03042001><FONT face=3DArial=20'# size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>eH <DIV><SPAN class=3D970195222-03042001><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dick = Wolff, Computer=20 Services</FONT></SPAN></DIV>: <DIV><SPAN class=3D970195222-03042001><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>Selkirk=20  College</FONT></SPAN></DIV> : <DIV><SPAN class=3D970195222-03042001><FONT face=3DArial = size=3D2>Castlegar, BC&nbsp;=20a( Canada</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>  - ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C0BC5A.7D787A20--M   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 16:25:23 -0700a0 From: "William S. LaCounte" <vmsmanager@ups.edu>( Subject: Re: HP printers and blank pages# Message-ID: <3ACA5BE2.6289@ups.edu>e  3 I am running VMS 7.2-1 on a DS20 with TCP/IP V5.0A.s  5 Here is what I use for a typical HP LaserJet printer:U  C Printer queue OIS$LASER2, idle, on ASIMOV::"tcpip$queue:oislaser2",d mounted form LETTERe$   <McIntyre 011A, HP LaserJet 4050N>@   /BASE_PRIORITY=4 /DEFAULT=(FEED,FORM=LETTER) /LIBRARY=LASERLIB	 Lowercase :   /OWNER=[OIS,*] /PROCESSOR=TCPIP$TELNETSYM /NO_INITIAL_FF2   /PROTECTION=(S:M,O:D,G:R,W:S) /SCHEDULE=(NOSIZE)    + You will note the qualifier /NO_INITIAL_FF.a  2 In addition my RESET module is: <esc>P<esc>E<esc>\  - The <esc>P is DCS (device control string) anda% the <esc>\ is ST (string terminator).-  H I use these around the reset (<esc>E) so escape sequences will be passed& to the printer without interpretation.   Bill   ------------------------------    Date: 04 Apr 2001 03:37:08 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>" Subject: Re: Merging DCLTABLES.EXE- Message-ID: <87y9thpyfv.fsf@prep.synonet.com>i  : hammond@not@peek.ppb.cpqcorp.net (Charlie Hammond) writes:  / > In article <3AC8FCCA.967CEE8C@videotron.ca>, w1 > JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca> writes:t  E > >There is a nifty SYS$UPDATE:DECW$GET_IMAGE_VERSION.COM which is ofwC > >great help in deciding which image should overwrite which (whicha > >has the higher version).s   ...a  @ > As for the original question -- I would tend NOT to manipulateF > DCLTABLE directly, but would re-install the products that supply DCL > verbs.  F > Actually, I agree with an earlier posting -- this looks to me like a> > good opportunity to re-build a new system disk from scratch.  D I have got into the habit of squileling the CLUs away in sys$update.7 (BTW, can this become a standard 'thing to do perhaps?)d  A A bigger problem is stuff that is only used very infrequently, oruH that has some odd user who has never said a word. Till his app vanishes.0 Then you have to find and port the damm thing...  F I had a couple of odds and sods that I have no idea where I originally* got them! Porting is a little tricky then.     -- t< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.n@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 14:42:17 -06004 From: "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam>Y Subject: Re: Of Downsizing and R&D (was Re: Windows 2000 non proprietary according to Com 1 Message-ID: <HCqy6.284$Hc.390219@news.uswest.net>a  L Don't forget that Dell has contractual access to IBM's R&D labs and that IBM  can use Dell's marketing skills. --
 Mike Ober.  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messageg6 news:ubny6.4913$107.6234337@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net... >p > >m' > > On Tue, 03 Apr 2001 08:30:44 -0300,j. > > fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br wrote: > > G > > >Dont worry ... after fire 5.000 employees do you believe Compaq iso > > >interested in development,eI > > >technology, evolution ?  Compaq is not DEC !  Compaq is not moved by- > > >inovation..... it ism! > > >moved by NASDAQ $$$$$$......s >I9 > CPQ spent $1.5B of its $42B in revenue on R & D in FY00  >h7 > DELL spent $482M of $31B in revenue on R & D in FY00.o >uI > CPQ's 3 1/2 percent R&D spend doesn't appear to be on the same scale asc IBMsK > (6 percent) or SUNW (10 percent), but it's significantly higher than thats ofF > DELL. Given that CPQ's R&D is heavily biased towards BCSG, ISSG, andI > Storage--which account for about $18B in revenue IIRC--the R&D spend isn > pretty significant.  >sK > Apparently the bulk of the layoffs will come in peecee-land. Which, givene- > the current market conditions, makes sense.f >r >e >w   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 14:20:40 -0700,! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.comm Subject: OT: User Friendly linkCD Message-ID: <OFC0ACC235.49DD8A9C-ON88256A23.0074F511@foundation.com>  I OK people (and various bots...), let's kill some productivity. Our friend-K Cthulhu has made it into the User Friendly comic strip. At least I now knowc# what he looks like. ;-) Start here:   > http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20010328&mode=classic  ' And go through to today's strip. Enjoy!i   Shane    ------------------------------   Date: 4 Apr 2001 00:30:02 +0200r From: <> Subject: PC software for 10$/cd & Message-ID: <3aca4eea$2@news.takas.lt>   write me an emailM I'll send a list softwarefor10@hotmail.com    ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2001 20:33:31 CDT0= From: wayne@tachysoft.xxx.412538.killspam.015a (Wayne Sewell)mC Subject: product announcement: the rebirth of DateSim (version 2.1)a. Message-ID: <aCeAXgtvmStT@tachxxsoftxxconsult>  K A few years ago, while everyone was still worked up about the expected YearLK 2000 bug, there were a few time simulation products available for VMS.  The-L purpose of these products was to intercept the system time within a process,L and to apply a delta to all time-related system services.  The process wouldO appear to be running in a different date and time from the rest of the system. tN This would allow one to set the date of the process to one of the expected Y2KO problem dates, such as the ever popular 31-DEC-1999, and perform user-level Y2K.J testing without changing the actual system datetime.  Additionally, it wasN possible to set several different processes to several different problem dates- for simultaneous testing by multiple testers.       M Needless to say, the expected lifetime of such products was rather short.  AsnN one might imagine, sales dropped off rather abruptly at the tail end of 1999. G :-)   Those of us involved with DateSim (me, developer; CDG, owner; and0N Software Partners, distributor) never really expected to sell any more copies.    I Much to our surprise, a customer managed to find a new use for DateSim, a3L *production* use: multiple time zone simulation.  This client has a group ofM servers that accept remote logins from all over the country.  Their users arepL apparently even less computer-literate than most and those in different timeM zones from the server get confused when the system time they see is differentgO from their local time.  Many of them apparently think the server is in the nextiN building or something.   The fact that there are multiple servers in differentJ time zones only aggravates their distress, since they have no control overJ which server they access.  Sometimes the displayed time is off by an hour, sometimes two hours, etc.     O This customer uses DateSim during remote logins to set the time for the processtJ to the remote user's local time, which is much easier on the nerves of theL users.  As far as they are concerned, the server is running in the same time zone they are.    G If this works for one organization, it might work for others, so we are9> resurrecting DateSim to take on a new role for a new market.          H To support timezone mode, we added a couple of command procedures to the product:   $! $! $! DEFINE_TIMEZONE.COM $!L $! This command procedure allows a process to automatically synchronize with $! a defined time zone.u $!F $! This procedure defines a logical (in a private logical name table) L $! containing the zone information.  It should be executed for each desired N $! zone during boot, before any processes try to synchronize to the time zone. $!K $! Each process which wants to run in the target time zone should call the -- $! companion procedure synch_with_timezone.    $!L $! Multiple timezones can be defined.  Just run this procedure once for eachK $! desired timezone, using a different name for each zone.  Any process canE $! synch with any defined zone.n $! $!G $!	P1 = arbitrary timezone name (should be something meaningful such asw- $!			central, chicago, pacific, sydney, etc.)a $!@ $!	p2 = number of minutes different from the current system time $! $!	p3 = FORWARD or BACKWARD  $! $!J $!	Note: the timezone name is used to create a logical name, so it should J $!	not contain special characters or embedded blanks.  It must follow the G $!	rules for logical names, i.e. alphanumeric, underscore, dollar sign.F $!	E $!	eH $!	For instance, if you want to define timezone SYDNEY, and Sydney is an) $!	hour and a half earlier than you, use:B $!3 $!		@datesim_com:define_timezone sydney 90 backward/ $! $! $!M $!      It is possible to define a null timezone by specifying zero for the  MI $!	number of minutes.  This would be used for the timezone the VMS systemiE $!	resides in, i.e. datesim is not needed.  In this case, it does not-) $!	matter what is used for the direction.- $!G $!	The null timezone option allows the assignment of a timezone for all0C $!	remote users, even those who are in the same timezone as the VMSBG $!	system.  This can simplify the remote login, since one does not haveaD $!	to decide whether to call synch_with_timezone or not, just which  $!	timezone to use.  a $! $!3 $!	If the VMS system is in L.A., use the following:a $!< $!		@datesim_com:define_timezone east_coast "3 * 60" forward: $!		@datesim_com:define_timezone new_york "3 * 60" forward9 $!		@datesim_com:define_timezone chicago "2 * 60" forward=9 $!		@datesim_com:define_timezone central "2 * 60" forwardM6 $!		@datesim_com:define_timezone west_coast 0 whatever5 $!		@datesim_com:define_timezone san_diego 0 whateverl $! $!J $!	If the VMS system is in Houston (U.S. Central time), use the following: $!6 $!		@datesim_com:define_timezone east_coast 60 forward= $!		@datesim_com:define_timezone west_coast "2 * 60" backwarde5 $!		@datesim_com:define_timezone mountain 60 backwardV3 $!		@datesim_com:define_timezone houston 0 whatever=3 $!		@datesim_com:define_timezone central 0 whateverS9 $!		@datesim_com:define_timezone hawaii "4 * 60" backwarda; $!		@datesim_com:define_timezone arizona_normal 60 backward C $!		@datesim_com:define_timezone arizona_daylight "2 * 60" backwardM $!5 $!				Since Arizona does not observe daylight savings94 $!				time, the offset from Houston changes when it  $!				is in effect.V $! $!  $!	If the server is in Sydney... $!2 $!		@datesim_com:define_timezone sydney 0 whatever2 $!		@datesim_com:define_timezone alice 90 backward4 $!		@datesim_com:define_timezone adelade 90 backward8 $!		@datesim_com:define_timezone perth "3 * 60" backward4 $!		@datesim_com:define_timezone brisbane 0 whatever $!    G Note: the offsets in the last example may be wrong.  I used to know theDN Australian time zones, having been down there ten times, but the last time was in '91.  One forgets.  :-)    M Obviously, this file must be oriented to a particular server.  Another server0M in another time zone would have completely different definitions for the sameN. names, based on its own relative time offsets.         $! $!	SYNCH_WITH_TIMEZONE.COM $! $! $!	P1 = zone name  $!* $!	@datesim_com:synch_with_timezone sydney. $!	@datesim_com:synch_with_timezone east_coast $!C $!	Note: this procedure cannot be used until the timezone has been <6 $!	defined with the DEFINE_TIMEZONE command procedure. $!D $!	It is typically called during a remote login.  The zone name usedC $!	would be that of the time zone in which this particular user is  F $!	located.  Once the synch occurs, the process runs in the users time0 $!	zone, irregardless of the actual system time. $! $!    = There is also a new DateSim command to support timezone mode:nO set_timezone_delta.   Basically, the two new command procedures do nothing moreb@ than determine the set_timezone_delta parameters.   The originalJ set_target_date and override_target_time were really intended for the dateK changes of Y2K mode and did not work well in timezone mode.  These commandsuM still work, but since timezone mode is the new direction for DateSim, the new;= command will probably be the only interface used from now on.&    ( http://www.softwarepartners.com/products    O Note: the web page for DateSim has not yet been updated for the new sales focus&N on multiple timezone simulation, and still refers to Y2K testing.  However, ifM you request a demo or buy the product, rest assured you will get version 2.1,n4 which is the one that has the timezone support.  :-)     Wayne            -- BO ===============================================================================sM Wayne Sewell, Tachyon Software Consulting  (281)812-0738  wayne@tachysoft.xxxb: http://www.tachysoft.xxx/www/tachyon.html and wayne.html  K change .xxx to .com in addresses above, assuming you are not a spambot  :-)bO ===============================================================================IB Jed Clampett, checking into hotel: "This place got a cement pond?"+ Ellie May: "And do yuh let critters in it?"&   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 23:31:21 GMT/3 From: "MrSignor" <MrSignor@nospam_bellatlantic.net>D Subject: pthreads + printf7 Message-ID: <d3ty6.6570$jL4.986859@typhoon1.ba-dsg.net>b   Alpha VMS 7.2-1p  = I have been writing some threaded code and seem to have hit an wall, or at least a deadlock.s  E Basically, I am compiling with /reentrancy=multi, although the onlineb? help says this is applicable to the MAIN only, and I am linking; with threads_enabled + upcalls.&  F One thread enters an infinite while loop, it calls usleep, to wait for@ 100 milli-secs (adjusted for usleep), and then when it awakes it prints the current time.  J The other thread (main really) loops on sleep (rather than usleep), for 30H seconds, and it uses printf to display how many seconds remain, if it is awoken prematurely.b  C Problem, once it begins, a few outputs occur - sometimes, sometimes;: only 1. At this point I am assuming a problem with Printf.  ? The above explanation is over simplified, but tomorrow, I am to & do exactly what I have explained here.  6 Anyone have any suggestions for further investigation.   TIAb   -Fredn   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 17:58:23 -0700&! From: Shane.F.Smith@Healthnet.coms Subject: Re: pthreads + printfD Message-ID: <OF35407E2A.0DE37875-ON88256A24.0001C2FE@foundation.com>  K Caution, sneaky undocumented (afaik) trick approaching. Probably won't helpn3 with this specific problem, but it's worth knowing.   K Leafing through the pthreads header file for C one day, I found a couple ofbA interesting calls mentioned that weren't in the pthreads manuals:nH pthread_mutex_setname_np and pthread_cond_setname_np. These allow you toK apply names to the mutexes and condition variables you create, which appear;G in the SDA when you're examining the process. This makes debugging thempK /way/ easier, since you know which resources are deadlocked. Have a look insK "pthreads.h", the arguments ar address of cond/mutex, name to assign, and a3D void pointer I've not found a use for. Passing the address of a null  pointer has been working for me.  C Note, though, the "_np" suffix. This indicates the routines are notn	 portable.p   Shaneb          E MrSignor <MrSignor@nospam_bellatlantic.net> on 04/03/2001 04:31:21 PMs  = Please respond to MrSignor <MrSignor@nospam_bellatlantic.net>&   To:   Info-VAX@Mvb.Saic.Comb cc:b   Subject:  pthreads + printfn     Alpha VMS 7.2-1;  = I have been writing some threaded code and seem to have hit aN wall, or at least a deadlock.N  E Basically, I am compiling with /reentrancy=multi, although the onlinea? help says this is applicable to the MAIN only, and I am linking/ with threads_enabled + upcalls.a  F One thread enters an infinite while loop, it calls usleep, to wait for@ 100 milli-secs (adjusted for usleep), and then when it awakes it prints the current time.  J The other thread (main really) loops on sleep (rather than usleep), for 30H seconds, and it uses printf to display how many seconds remain, if it is awoken prematurely.0  C Problem, once it begins, a few outputs occur - sometimes, sometimesN: only 1. At this point I am assuming a problem with Printf.  ? The above explanation is over simplified, but tomorrow, I am toI& do exactly what I have explained here.  6 Anyone have any suggestions for further investigation.   TIAa   -Fred0   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 17:59:46 -0400* From: "Paul A. Jacobi" <nospan@nospam.com>C Subject: Re: Seeking CD-R/CD-RW SCSI INQUIRY data / Yamaha CRW4416S 2 Message-ID: <OLry6.512$fB6.14650@news.cpqcorp.net>  ; "Chuck McCrobie" <mccrobie@cablespeed.com> wrote in messagee( news:3AC94E41.D8DE5937@cablespeed.com...J > Our SCSI bus analyer reported a CHECK CONDITION on a MODE SELECT.  Don'tH > remember the details though.  It seemed that DKDRIVER attempts to MODE/ > SELECT something that the drive doesn't like.P  K DKDRIVER performs a MODE SELECT to set the block size to 512 bytes, instead K of the default 8192 bytes for CD-ROM drives.  The CHECK CONDITION is a good L indication that the device does not support 512-byte block which is required by OpenVMS.    Paul A. Jacobi Compaq Computer Corporationn! OpenVMS Systems Group, ZKO3-4/U14w 110 Spitbrook Road Nashua, NH 03062-2698- Email: Paul.Jacobi@compaq.com4   ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 23:51:31 GMTu= From: system@SendSpamHere.ORG (Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman-)rC Subject: Re: Seeking CD-R/CD-RW SCSI INQUIRY data / Yamaha CRW4416S)0 Message-ID: <009F9FFF.F1634E3E@SendSpamHere.ORG>  _ In article <OLry6.512$fB6.14650@news.cpqcorp.net>, "Paul A. Jacobi" <nospan@nospam.com> writes:C >E< >"Chuck McCrobie" <mccrobie@cablespeed.com> wrote in message) >news:3AC94E41.D8DE5937@cablespeed.com... K >> Our SCSI bus analyer reported a CHECK CONDITION on a MODE SELECT.  Don'tlI >> remember the details though.  It seemed that DKDRIVER attempts to MODEd0 >> SELECT something that the drive doesn't like. > L >DKDRIVER performs a MODE SELECT to set the block size to 512 bytes, insteadL >of the default 8192 bytes for CD-ROM drives.  The CHECK CONDITION is a good                 ^^^^* I thought the default block size was 2048.   --O VAXman- OpenVMS APE certification number: AAA-0001     VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM,            sO city, n., 1. a place where trees are cut down and streets are named after them.o   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 19:13:57 +0100h0 From: andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com>% Subject: Re: Spice for OpenVMS Alpha?l* Message-ID: <3ACA12E5.CF84C2A6@uk.sun.com>   Bob Koehler wrote: > _ > In article <3AC996E4.57EC594D@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:u > >iJ > > Really, so why for example do people claim that one of the key benfitsE > > of OpenVMS is its invunerablility to stack overflow exploits when ! > > this isn't actaully the case.  > >c > A > VMS isn't invulnerable to such attacks and when such claims arer> > occaisionally made in this group they are quickly shot down. >   ; Really, that does not seem to be the conclusion of at least < two recent threads. But I will defer to you opinion on this.  J > What is claimed, and true, is that traditionally VMS has been written inH > languages which don't readily generate vulnerable code, while UNIX notD > only is written in such a language (C), it was at one time full of  > actual use of vulnerable code. >   6 However OpenVMS is now liberally sprinkled with C and 4 so this assertion while historically accurate is of 6 little relevance for the current OpenVMS 7.XX release.  G > The UNIX vendors have cleaned up (it's possible to write good code infD > C), and parts of VMS are now written in C.  But the damage to UNIXH > reputation is done, and new code seems to show up on UNIX systems on aF > regular basis with the same old problem (some vendors just don't getH > it?).  Meanwhile new code showing up on VMS doesn't seem to be missing > lessons learned. >   7 Meanwhile badly written C code, POD vunerablity etc is o4 showing up all the time in OpenVMS which because it 3 relies on C for basic functionality such as IP and s3 windowing is if not equally vunerable as UNIX then n highly suspect.n  J > Which is nothing new, VMS from the start showed up with a few good ideas< > from RSX, TOPS, UNIX, and other older systems designed in. > @ > When it comes to security, a reputation is good thing to have. >   : Except when as has been perfectly adequately demonstrated 3 this reputation lulls admins into a false sense of h security, which it has.e   Regards  Andrew Harrisona Enterprise IT Architecto   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2001 15:21:36 -0500d- From: koehler@encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler)a% Subject: Re: Spice for OpenVMS Alpha?-3 Message-ID: <vIlzDldDZvzh@eisner.encompasserve.org>0  ] In article <3ACA12E5.CF84C2A6@uk.sun.com>, andrew harrison <andrew.nospam@uk.sun.com> writes:   4 > However OpenVMS is now liberally sprinkled with C    And I wrote:  H >> The UNIX vendors have cleaned up (it's possible to write good code in >> C)1  F Yes, we know UCX is based on the Tru64 stack, MAIL was rewritten, ... E But when you put the two above statements together we can see how theoF posential problem is addressable.  Or did you folks at Sun not realize( UNIX vendors have cleaned up their code?  E Besides, you know now we're not using UCX, and don't even consider ituC part of VMS.  Can you demonstrate a security hole elsewhere in VMS?a  A -----------------------------------------------------------------r? Bob Koehler                     | Computer Sciences Corporations= NASA GSFC Flight Software       | Federal Sector, Civil GroupoE                                 | please remove ".aspm" when replyingC   ------------------------------    Date: 04 Apr 2001 03:47:33 +0800, From: Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com>% Subject: Re: Spice for OpenVMS Alpha? - Message-ID: <87u245pxyi.fsf@prep.synonet.com>n  3 byer@mail.ourservers.net (Robert Alan Byer) writes:a  H > Anyone know where I can get a copy of the current version of SPICE for > Alpha?  7 > I've done some searching and so far haven't found it.   B If you have a Redhat CD set and a linux box, there is a source RPME there.  From the files on Mirror.aarnet.edu, a BSD mirror may be moreo( up to date. (BTW, Mirror is .au only...)  D The canonical site is ftp.ee.ucb.edu I think... long time though, so no promises there.  A Google is hiding it, but it should be easy to find on the peoples  republic web page I'd guess.   -- r< Paul Repacholi                               1 Crescent Rd.,7 +61 (08) 9257-1001                           Kalamunda.d@                                              West Australia 6076. Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 15:26:25 -0700v, From: Mark Berryman <berryman@karfoogle.com>% Subject: Re: Spice for OpenVMS Alpha?o, Message-ID: <3ACA4E11.7080102@karfoogle.com>   andrew harrison wrote:   > Mark Berryman wrote: >  >> andrew harrison wrote:  >> D >> m >>> Tim Llewellyn wrote: >>>  >>>  >>>> Bill Gunshannon wrote:t >>>> s >>>> t >>>> i/ >>>>> In article <3AC49C9F.B90D2FF4@bbc.co.uk>,s6 >>>>>  Tim Llewellyn <tim.llewellyn@bbc.co.uk> writes: >>>>> |>E >>>>> |> and btw I have beeing doing some research in comp.unix.* :-)  >>>>>  >>>>> And??? >>>>> 
 >>>>> bill >>>> aJ >>>> well, they don't seem to have a high opinion of Solaris security over >>>> in comp.security.unix.e >>>> o >>>  >>> 1 >>> I am not sure what the point of your post is.o >>> 0 >>> Posters on this group do have a high opinion2 >>> of OpenVMS security. This high opinion however6 >>> appears to be based on a lack of information about0 >>> the actual risks to OpenVMS fostered by what/ >>> is a culture of security through obscurity.b9 >>> The CERT advisories for OpenVMS are a perfect examplen >>> of this. >>> 7 >>> Can you say with certainty that the differences youl3 >>> see in each newsgroup are anything other than a 0 >>> manifestation of the difference in approach. >>> 2 >>> Various posters have claimed on this newsgroup1 >>> that OpenVMS pretty much clean as far as CERTE5 >>> advisories are concerned only to find that Compaqi- >>> had not posted responses when OpenVMS wasg >>> vunerable. >>> 5 >>> Various posters have also claimed that OpenVMS isb4 >>> immune to the stack overflow exploits attributed1 >>> to UNIX and NT only to find that this is alsot >>> not the case.  >> tI >> As desperate as Andrew is for OpenVMS to turn out to be no more securerA >> than Solaris, or as desperate as he appears to be to show some G >> conspiracy of silence within VMS engineering I don't think the facts, >> bear him out. >> t >  >   > To answer your points in turn. > 5 > 1.	I am not and have not made any claims about the f8 > 	relative security of OpenVMS vs any other OS Solaris  > 	included.  H Let's see, you go out of your way to try to assert the VMS's reputation E for security is either undeserved or overinflated and remain totally e9 silent when pressed for details.  Sounds desperate to me.t     > 9 > 2.	The Cert advisories prove beyond doubt that securityo7 > 	information released by Compaq relating to OpenVMS's 9 > 	vunerability to common exploits is either non existant 6 > 	when OpenVMS was vunerable, incorrect when OpenVMS ; > 	was vunerable, or unhelpfull when OpenVMS was vunerable.e  H Cite specifics.  Oh, and remember, as much as you might wish otherwise, C UCX does *not* equal VMS.  During the timeframe to which we are in oI reference there were no less than 5 IP stacks available for VMS.  If you 3E are able to come up with any specifics, it/they will need to include r? which stack had the vulnerability - it will NOT be VMS, itself.!     > 6 > 	This may be for any one of a number of reasons but 6 > 	which would you prefer ? Incompetence, arrogance or9 > 	a conspiracy, how do you explain the fact that Compaqsh3 > 	responses for OpenVMS leave a lot to be desired.s  E They may leave a lot to be desired for you.  They reflect accurately b$ what I have found in my own testing.     >  > I >> For instance, part of my job is to verify what attacks our systems maydF >> be vulnerable to - said systems including VMS, NT, and various UnixH >> flavors.  Not once, *not once*, have the VMS systems I've tested beenI >> vulnerable to any of the DoS or exploit attacks that are documented on2I >> CERT (and I've tested pretty much all of them).  Solaris, on the other9K >> hand, has been vulnerable to most of them (I don't have my list in front 5 >> of me but there were one or two that it survived).s >> m >  > H > Sorry but this is simply wrong. If you had a current unpatched version > of !G > UCX at the time of each of the major DOS attacks then you would have nH > been vunerable to most of them on OpenVMS from POD onwards, it is not K > even worth contesting this point because its documented either belatedly I1 > in CERT or in Compaqs own patch documentation. e > B > Of course if you had applied the latest patches you would be OK > > but you would have had no idea that you needed to apply the : > patches to protect yourself from DOS attacks by looking < > in CERT or Auscert. You could have gleened the information> > from the patch reports or you could have unwittingly filled : > the hole by keeping UCX to the current patch level. You 7 > would however in the case of POD for example have had : > a window of 4 months between the origional attacks being9 > reported and a patch being made available for UCX that N > fixed the problem.  @ Um, excuse me, we were talking about VMS, not UCX.  There is no H relationship between the two other than one is a layered product of the  other.  I My statement is accurate not, as you assert, wrong.  I had responsiblity rF for literally hundreds of VMS systems running IP and everyone of them G tested immune and did so at the time the attack became known, not some , undefineable time later.    A > And Solaris has generally not been vunerable to the DOS attackss: > like POD and in addition Sun has supplied configuration ; > changes (not patches) to stop some of the performance DOS < > attacks, not suggestions that you should hide your OpenVMS! > boxes safely behind a FireWall.d  > I've never seen this suggestion.  Can you give me a reference?D > of OpenVMS is its invunerablility to stack overflow exploits when  > this isn't actaully the case.D  , Back up your claim.  Show me one.  Just one.     > B > Could it be that as I have proved conclusively over the IP issue= > that the rest of OpenVMS's reputation for security is basedeC > on assumptions that don't actually stand too much close scrutiny.s  F You have proven squat.  You have asserted, but you have shown nothing.     > @ > At the moment your reasons for assuming that OpenVMS is secureC > seem to be based entirely on a set of tests that you accidentallyc5 > passed which is hardly a creditable security model.x  ? That's the third time in this message alone you have called me  G incompetent.  I think its time I had a chat with your supervisor about =: what kind of messages are being posted under Sun's banner.   > 
 > Regards  > Andrew Harrisonh > Enterprise IT Architect-   Signed,-
 Mark Berryman- Chief Network Engineer   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2001 20:55:04 GMTt* From: bleau@umtof.umd.edu (Lawrence Bleau)9 Subject: TCPIP V5.0A install fails, can't proceed; ideas?.) Message-ID: <9addb8$4io$1@hecate.umd.edu>o  H I ran into a problem installing (rather, upgrading to) TCPIP V5.0A.  I'mI running OpenVMS AXP V7.1-2 with UCX V4.2 ECO 1.  I read the instyallation L notes, nothing seemed unusual, so I followed them.  The part that caused the? problem was the PRODUCT INSTALL TCPIP command.  The output was:t   -----r Execution phase starting ...  7 The following product will be installed to destination:mH     DEC AXPVMS TCPIP V5.0-11               DISK$DISKF0_SYS:[VMS$COMMON.]   UCX product already installed.  G ***********************************************************************bF Another version of TCP/IP is installed. You must execute the following8 three commands before continuing with this installation:  3  $ BACKUP SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]UCX$LPD_STARTUP.COM; - .      SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]TCPIP$LPD_STARTUP.COM;4  $ BACKUP SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]UCX$LPD_SHUTDOWN.COM; -/      SYS$COMMON:[SYSMGR]TCPIP$LPD_SHUTDOWN.COM;-  $ PRODUCT REMOVE UCXpG ***********************************************************************p     Portion done: 0%" %PCSI-E-S_OPFAIL, operation failedM %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable error conditiono -----   K This looked strange, but okay, let's assume they (VMS and TCPIP folks) knoweJ what they're doing.  I entered the above commands.  The PRODUCT REMOVE UCX, failed, however, with the following message:   -----s $ PRODUCT REMOVE UCX  ( The following product has been selected::     DEC AXPVMS UCX V4.2-21                 Layered Product   Do you want to continue? [YES]  Y %PCSI-W-OPTREF, product DEC AXPVMS UCX V4.2-21 is referenced by DEC AXPVMS OPENVMS V7.1-2iL -PCSI-W-OPTRF1, this software dependency is expressed within a configurationO -PCSI-W-OPTRF2,   option that is currently selected for the referencing productoL -PCSI-W-OPTRF3, if you want to reconfigure the referencing product or reviewL -PCSI-W-OPTRF4,   its configuration requirements, answer NO to the followingP -PCSI-W-OPTRF5,   question to terminate this operation; if you are sure you wantN -PCSI-W-OPTRF6,   to remove the referenced product, then answer YES to proceed Do you want to continue? [YES]  9 The following products will be removed from destinations:.H     DEC AXPVMS UCX V4.2-21                 DISK$DISKF0_SYS:[VMS$COMMON.]H     DEC AXPVMS UCXECO_42_1 V1.0            DISK$DISKF0_SYS:[VMS$COMMON.]   Portion done: 0%5 %PCSI-I-PRCOUTPUT, output from subprocess follows ...,M %DCL-E-OPENIN, error opening PCSI$SOURCE:[000000]CLEAN_SDA_HELP.COM; as inputfK -RMS-F-DEV, error in device name or inappropriate device type for operationu Portion done: 10%e  D %PCSI-E-EXERMVFAIL, product supplied EXECUTE REMOVE procedure failedK -RMS-F-DEV, error in device name or inappropriate device type for operationo" %PCSI-E-OPFAILED, operation failedE Terminating is strongly recommended.  Do you want to terminate? [YES]oT %PCSI-E-CANCEL_WIP, termination resulted in an incomplete modification to the system/ %PCSI-E-S_OPCAN, operation cancelled by requestuM %PCSIUI-E-ABORT, operation terminated due to an unrecoverable error condition  -----i  M So, what gives here?  It won't let me install TCPIP V5.0A until I remove UCX,-; and it won't let me remove UCX.  Any hints are appreciated.b   Lawrence Bleau University of Maryland" Physics Dept., Space Physics Group 301-405-6223 bleau@umtof.umd.edu5   ------------------------------  # Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 00:47:15 GMTo From: "Fatz" <fatz@fatz.com> Subject: VAX Debugger command.> Message-ID: <nauy6.471069$w35.72679943@news1.rdc1.nj.home.com>  L I can't remember this.  It's a command you do in debug to examine the entire& argument list and goes something like:   DBG> EX @(AP:@AP)AP@AP)R  L This command is, of course, total nonsense but those who know will know what
 I'm after.   TIA, Fatz.d   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 16:32:30 -0400 From: <chris.moore@stelco.ca>i Subject: Re: VAX in 1U4 Message-ID: <Drqy6.181583$Z2.2166666@nnrp1.uunet.ca>  L An interesting alternative to any of this is the CHARON-VAX emulator runningL on a Wintel box.  We've played with it here (including a VMS upgrade to 7.1)K and it seems to do everything they claim.  Does take over the PC you put itVK on though (but that's probably the good news).  Unfortunately, although the)G emulator will likely run like a VAX, it IS running under NT so periodic1I re-boots of the host platform should be expected.  Check it out yourself.C http://www.charon-vax.com/  6 <fabio_compaq@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br> wrote in messageF news:OFFA46A003.2E542EBB-ON03256A22.005E5BD6@ep-bc.petrobras.com.br...K > An interesting idea nowadays would be Compaq launching a new (definitive)aF > VAX / MicroVAX in a 1U cabinet to maintain the legacy (???) systems.G > I have three VAXes here which I cannot "shutdown" because they have a 2 > legacy application. And they are ocupping space: >r > 2 (two) VAX 4000 > 1 (one) MicroVAX 3100  > 1 (one)  R400X >h >h >e	 > Regards  >e > FC >.   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2001 22:31:01 +0200(& From: Cthulhu <cthulhu@kadath.deep.it> Subject: Re: VAX in 1U) Message-ID: <9adbu5$2ng$1@kadath.deep.it>   ! steven.reece@quintiles.com wrote:-  J > IIRC, it's a cabinet of similar size to the BA440/BA213 in which you canK > house up to six DSSI disks (like the RF71, RF72, RF73) and up to one DSSIE > tape device (like a TF86).  C Ah, now I understand... the big brother of che R215F that lies back  there!  L > They also have the power switching facilities that can be hooked up to theJ > BA440 cabinets so that switching off the CPU cabinet causes the R400X to  E And now, I also know what that RJ45 plug on the VAX4000-300 were used  for. :)    Thanks!n   	learningly, 	   Cthulhud   -- u  G        Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu http://www.rlyeh.it wgah'nagl fhtgan!w# 		        <cthulhu at rlyeh dot it>t   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Apr 2001 00:23:46 +0200r) From: maulis@ludens.elte.hu (Adam Maulis)e Subject: Re: VAX in 1U! Message-ID: <Wj19MTTpRsXF@ludens>   T In article <Drqy6.181583$Z2.2166666@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, <chris.moore@stelco.ca> writes:N > An interesting alternative to any of this is the CHARON-VAX emulator running > on a Wintel box. e  : or intel like machie with linux... may not full supported," may not stable but an alternative.       Regards, Adam Maulise   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2001 18:17:05 GMTp2 From: mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edu (David Mathog)$ Subject: Re: VMS-Related: Affordable, Message-ID: <9ad431$56v@gap.cco.caltech.edu>  s In article <oMny6.4925$107.6246291@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> writes: E >> One can only hope that, tucked away in some back corner of OpenVMSgL >> engineering, well hidden from the powers that be, that there are a coupleK >> of engineers quietly working out the contingincies for moving OpenVMS to H >> another hardware platform.  Because while Tru64 is just another Unix,% >> there's nothing else like OpenVMS.  >cM >Not very likely. The last time the VMS porting idea was seriously consideredXG >was 1994. The acquisition of Wes Melling and the "dumb on down" to WNToK >Affinity Strategy pretty much shut down any further investigation. At this M >point, it's probably way too late to go ahead with a port, assuming same waseK >architecturally feasible. T'would be tough to make a business case for it.I  I I keep hearing that.  The flip side of that coin though is that there are0D several billion dollars/year of OpenVMS income that rest squarely onM Alpha's shoulders and, to mangle a metaphor, will swirl right down the toilet H after the Alpha unless somebody keeps delivering faster Alpha processorsJ and boards.  It seems less and less likely that that somebody will be API.F The folks spending the majority of on VMS want VMS, want 64 bits, but I likely don't really care all that much whose processor is down there, so kH long as it is ultrareliable. For a migration there's always the softwareJ conversion costs, but realistically moving from VMS on one 64 bit platformJ to VMS on another 64 bit platform is only going to be really difficult forF those end users who write machine code - a group of people who you canO probably fit comfortably in one small room.  And yes this would be hell for the-H OS folks who have to do the drivers and the compiler folks before that. D (Ok, there would also be problems with some floating types not beingK supported, and it would be gross if the endian types were different, but inmB any case, not nearly so difficult as the VAX -> Alpha 32bit->64bit
 transition.) 3  H But stay with me here.  If VMS ran on Hammer then if (more likely, when)G Compaq starts shipping Hammer processors in big SMP systems for Windows F 2003 (codename "CrackedPane" ?) VMS could, for once, tag along for theM ride.  There would be little hardware advantage, but neither would there be an hardware disadvantage. a   Regards,   David Mathog mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.edui? Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, Caltech aJ **************************************************************************J *                                RIP VMS                                 *J **************************************************************************   ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 20:44:16 +0100   From: steven.reece@quintiles.com$ Subject: Re: VMS-Related: AffordableH Message-ID: <OF22866FB8.7CDB18DA-ON80256A23.006C2B72@qedi.quintiles.com>  J I wonder how the lifetime for VMS compares with the lifetime for the AlphaD architecture in the light of the DII COE work that's being done....?K Presumably X years (minimum) for VMS would also equate to X years (minimum) % for Alpha in the present environment.. Steve.   Terry Shannon wrote/quoted:k >>>y > D > One can only hope that, tucked away in some back corner of OpenVMSK > engineering, well hidden from the powers that be, that there are a couple>J > of engineers quietly working out the contingincies for moving OpenVMS toG > another hardware platform.  Because while Tru64 is just another Unix,s$ > there's nothing else like OpenVMS.  A Not very likely. The last time the VMS porting idea was seriouslye
 consideredF was 1994. The acquisition of Wes Melling and the "dumb on down" to WNTJ Affinity Strategy pretty much shut down any further investigation. At thisH point, it's probably way too late to go ahead with a port, assuming same was J architecturally feasible. T'would be tough to make a business case for it. <<<    ------------------------------  # Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 20:15:47 GMTy4 From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net>$ Subject: Re: VMS-Related: Affordable< Message-ID: <Tbqy6.4951$107.6298521@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net>  - <steven.reece@quintiles.com> wrote in messagerB news:OF22866FB8.7CDB18DA-ON80256A23.006C2B72@qedi.quintiles.com... >a >uL > I wonder how the lifetime for VMS compares with the lifetime for the AlphaF > architecture in the light of the DII COE work that's being done....?C > Presumably X years (minimum) for VMS would also equate to X years 	 (minimum) ' > for Alpha in the present environment.b > Steve.  L Your mileage (and Compaq's) may vary, but the presumption is correct in thatK DII COE implies support for a platform/environment, eg OS and hardware uponOG which it runs. Hence, if we are to assume that DII COE commits VMS to aeJ 20-year lifespan, the same has to apply to Alpha... unless VMS shows up on another architecture.h  I DEC in 1991/92 said Alpha was designed to last for at least 25 years, and G the architecture is now, to all intents and purposes, about 8 years olduH (systems began shipping in Spring 1993). Given that the interval betweenB processor generations has proven to be much longer than originallyG advertised (EV6 initially was due in 95-96!), it's "reasonably" safe to E assume that there's 20 years of headroom left in the Alpha design. OfdF course, making a 20-year assumption in this business is risky at best.   ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 22:15:47 +0000n) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>,$ Subject: Re: VMS-Related: Affordable, Message-ID: <3ACB9D13.692BA33B@infopuls.com>   David Mathog wrote:O > Z > In article <3AC90A50.B6200D72@infopuls.com>, Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com> writes: > >"David J. Dachtera" wrote:e > >c@ > >Continue, at least for about one year if you can afford it. I= > >think the next 12 to 24 month will tell if there is a turniA > >around in the user base and the preception of what VMS is goodt@ > >for. To reverse the trend low cost systems and students using > >them will be essential. > F > Which is too damn bad for VMS because there are no low cost systems,J > neither is there a competitive academic program.  OpenVMS is dead in theK > water in this market.  Or more accurately, literally dead in this market,h > as in, extinct.  > F > When I've finished putting together the new low cost Sun system I'llJ > provide all the details.  Right now it looks like the machine which willG > replace the DS10 will cost about $2500 in total, and that includes OS K > (unlimited users, of course), the Sun academic program (for 1 year, gives H > compilers), and hardware (no monitor though).  That price includes 1GbK > memory and a single 75Gb IBM disk, which together account for roughly 40%mK > of the price.  This machine will likely be no more than half the speed ofmI > the DS10 it replaces for CPU bound operations, but due to VMS's seriousvK > disk IO constraints, faster for those operations, which are rate limitingo& > for virtually all of the work we do.  8 If VMS is behind wrt I/O speed it will catch up. I would@ recommend not to through the baby out with the bath because this; aspect is temporarily (yes, I know, for some years now, butu@ better performance to come soon) disadvantagous. A well designed; VMS app should stay with VMS and take full advantage of thea> superior design. But of course there are areas where VMS could8 not completely excel because its advantages are not that; important. We might state an analogy of VMS and UNIX (which = should be avoided) to Rolls-Royce and a formula 1 car: nobodyl9 would like to drive it for a long time but for short timed? exploits it may be appropriate. If you have to travel for yearsd? the formula 1 car would lose because it will break down and you. will probably lose your health.g@ If you have a simple app which is only used by one person who is8 technically skilful and interrupts of service are not of: importance you might not ask for VMS. If you have a lot of? customers, you don't want to have service interrupts a.s.o. youe will chose VMS.   7 I'm personally convinced that even in the formula 1 carn: environments VMS could excel if the mid-term efficiency is& regarded which most managers don't do.  G > And the only reason this isn't a Linux system running on high qualityhM > Athlon hardware (which would have cost $500 less and been twice as fast) istI > that we have 1 piece of licensed software that requires Solaris or Irix / > (and I'm not stepping into the SGI quagmire.)m  > My experience is that PC HW isn't that reliable and versatile.  M > Which all goes to show that technical credentials, both for an OS (VMS) and I > for the hardware (Alpha) count for squat if the company controlling they? > technology does not market it well.  Or in this case, at all.e  ? Or doing the opposite: actively damaging the business image andc future prospects. :-(o  L > I don't have Terry Shannon's credentials, but my "fearful prognostication"I > is that the eventual winner of the 64 bit wars will be AMD.  Unlike theeN > itanic, the "Hammer" will actually run 32 bit x86 code at a reasonable speedJ > AND offer 64 bits as well.  I believe AMD will achieve this because theyM > simply have to.  Their 64 bit processor may turn out to be little more than M > an x86 with bigger/faster everything, but the history of the CPU market has M > been for the last 10 years that the x86 just keeps growing and growing, andaP > as long as backwards compatibility is maintained, the new ones replace the oldL > ones.   The itanic did not maintain backwords compatibility, and I believeL > that will turn out to have been a fatal error.  It will provide an openingM > for the "Hammer" to become the upgrade path for the huge x86 server market,VK > and also for the desktop market.  Moreover, the AMD processor will arriveaF > at a time when >2GB of memory will cost <$1/Mb, perhaps as little asI > $.5/Mb. Consequently these machines will be available from day one withwE > enough physical memory so that the 64 bits can actually be used fori > something.  0 I always thought that tItanic is x86 compatible.< I read that in some Intel, AMD and other compatibles (Cyrix,= ITCWinChip (?) whatever) in fact RISC kernels are working and*@ with some even the RISC instruction set can directly be used. Is@ there any problem to provide a low level x86 emulation on Alpha?@ Some HyperVMWare which allows to run VMS and e.g. something like> SoftWindows, RealPC or WINE which is then capable of executing native Intel apps?  < The 68k -> PPC move was similar to the VAX -> Alpha move but@ less VAX apps moved to Alpha than 68k apps to PPC. What about an5 Intel -> Alpha move supported by emulation technique?o= What about a low level x86 emulation to directly run x86 OSs?B? What about a low level SPARC emulation to directly run Solaris?o? I personally think this is the way to go for Alpha. The ballast ; of the compatibility instructions should be put into the SWo? layer instead like Intel keeping all the old instructions alongo) for decades burning 50% of power by that.E  M > I don't see Alpha having any presence in the small end of the market within J > a year or two.  API is way too slow pushing new chips and boards out theK > door, and they're doing a terrible job of even selling the ones they haveiJ > now.  Plus they just changed their name to "API networks" which looks toH > this observer like an admission that they just can't cut it in the CPUK > world and are changing directions so that they can stay in business.  ButtE > Compaq's strategy for everything except huge servers depends on API L > cranking out processors and boards.  There's a wind blowing and it doesn't5 > look good for the house of cards that Compaq built!e  ; Compaq has to lern a lot. Remember that this company has non tradition like IBM, DEC or HP.  D > One can only hope that, tucked away in some back corner of OpenVMSK > engineering, well hidden from the powers that be, that there are a couple J > of engineers quietly working out the contingincies for moving OpenVMS toG > another hardware platform.  Because while Tru64 is just another Unix,S$ > there's nothing else like OpenVMS.  
 My words. :-)D  : Sorry to repeat that in polite words: there is no point in. having another UNIX (which should be avoided).  
 > Regards, >  > David Mathog > mathog@seqaxp.bio.caltech.eduo@ > Manager, sequence analysis facility, biology division, CaltechL > **************************************************************************L > *                                RIP VMS                                 *L > **************************************************************************+         Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 17:29:56 GMTu<         From: "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> Organization: Road Runnern    N > Not very likely. The last time the VMS porting idea was seriously consideredH > was 1994. The acquisition of Wes Melling and the "dumb on down" to WNTL > Affinity Strategy pretty much shut down any further investigation. At thisN > point, it's probably way too late to go ahead with a port, assuming same wasL > architecturally feasible. T'would be tough to make a business case for it.  < I personally think as a senior SW designer that having an OS? ported (not migrated) to different good HW platforms is a majort; advantage for quality (lower number of bugs, better design, : better ideas a.s.o.). I personally don't think that the PC? architecture is well designed (think only about the stupid BIOSe= limitations but there a lot of others) and wrt interrupts andi? other HW dependencies it might be a major problem. And althoughr4 the PC architecture has caught up wrt mere speed the= architectural disadvantages are mostly still there. But there = might be a way to port to a special subset of PC architecturee? boxes that fulfil certain requirements as other posters alreadyV	 proposed.   > Having VMS on different HW architectures and vice versa having@ different OSs on the Alpha would a major advantage wrt to market$ share, cost effectiveness and image.    -         Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 20:44:16 +0100p(         From: steven.reece@quintiles.com- Organization: Info-VAX<==>comp.os.vms GatewayF  L > I wonder how the lifetime for VMS compares with the lifetime for the AlphaF > architecture in the light of the DII COE work that's being done....?M > Presumably X years (minimum) for VMS would also equate to X years (minimum)X' > for Alpha in the present environment.  > Steve.  ? It seems that this poster's message isn't very thought through.o@ The DII COE commitment doesn't include the obligation to provide9 new and faster Alphas. It merely means that Compaq has to-9 repair, maintain and develop the SW and adapt it to neweru= processor generations if necessary. In no way could Compaq ben+ blamed for not doing another company's job.s   ------------------------------   Date: 4 Apr 2001 02:04:54 GMT/1 From: JONESD@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (David Jones)s2 Subject: Re: When might SYS$SCHDWK not wake me up?: Message-ID: <9advg6$k5g$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  0 In message <3AC5BF70.430F9447@trailing-edge.com>/   Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> writes:t  I >We have a control system (VAX 6000-610, VMS5.5-2, similarly ancient UCX)n? >that has a process that's supposed to wake up every second, dog; >some rather trivial processing, and then fall back asleep.n >lG >On wake-up, it uses SYS$SCHDWK to schedule a single wake-up for itselfrC >one second in the future.  It then does its simple processing, and- >does a SYS$HIBER. >-C >This works fine 99.9999% of the time, but every few weeks or every ? >few months the process won't wake up by itself.  If I kick the@B >sleeping process by referencing it in a SYS$WAKE call run from an@ >interactive program, it wakes back up and then runs for another% >few weeks or months without a hitch.i  I Suppose this 'trivial processing' did a hiber()/wake() sequence somewhereuJ inside a library call.  If the timing was such that on rare occasions bothC the $SCHDWK and latent $WAKE/$SCHDWK fired before the latent $HIBERrI was called, then the $HIBER in the main loop would miss the intended wake J and block forever.  (It would also probably mean that the internal processH that depended upon the wake would from time to time resume prematurely).   >>Dave    < David L. Jones               |      Phone:    (614) 292-6929- Ohio State University        |      Internet:dL 140 W. 19th St. Rm. 231a     |               jonesd@er6s1.eng.ohio-state.edu: Columbus, OH 43210           |               vman+@osu.edu  + Disclaimer: Dogs can't tell it's not bacon.    ------------------------------  % Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 23:54:41 -0400i- From: JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@videotron.ca>r2 Subject: Re: When might SYS$SCHDWK not wake me up?, Message-ID: <3ACA9AF5.C8A1428A@videotron.ca>   David Jones wrote:K > Suppose this 'trivial processing' did a hiber()/wake() sequence somewhere L > inside a library call.  If the timing was such that on rare occasions bothE > the $SCHDWK and latent $WAKE/$SCHDWK fired before the latent $HIBERtK > was called, then the $HIBER in the main loop would miss the intended wakeo > and block forever.   Would it really ?r  H A covert $HIBER hidden in "process" would also have a covert $SCHDWK (orK equivalent $SETIMR with an AST that would call $WAKE). If the covert $HIBERcN consumes a set WAKEPEN without waiting, then the covert $SCHDWK would ~likely~N deliver wakepen after the covert $HIBER, so that the real $HIBER would see the bit still set.   ------------------------------  $ Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 11:59:53 -06004 From: "Michael D. Ober" <mdo.@.wakeassoc.com.nospam>> Subject: Re: Windows 2000 non proprietary according to Compaq!0 Message-ID: <wcoy6.86$Hc.287338@news.uswest.net>  F Looks like the article confused "Industry Standard" and "Proprietary".I MS-Windows (all flavors) are definitely Proprietary and some are Industry L Standards, especially on the desktop.  Whether or not MS-Windows 2000 Server= (any flavor) is an Industry Standard depends on whom you ask.e --
 Mike Ober.  ? "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote in messageh6 news:yVky6.4780$107.6182590@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net... > >sD > > But the best Compaq line has to be the following: "... TaskSmartF > > N-Series appliances are based on an optimized version of MicrosoftB > > Windows 2000 which is an industry standard - not a proprietary0 > > operating system" Has anyone told Microsoft? >,L > No, they are probably too busy laffing. Who wrote that line? Bill Gates or > John Cleese? >nK > As far as I am concerned, anything you pay for and which is controlled byt a.I > single Borg, er, entity, is proprietary. Give me freely available, open*F > source, all 65K-bugs-included, Windows 2000 and I'll be the first toL > designate same as non-proprietary. In the interim, Compaq's assertion must= > be taken with a grain of salt. Or a 50-pound block thereof.* >* >* >  >-   ------------------------------   Date: 3 Apr 2001 20:40:04 -0000 4 From: Doc.Cypher <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>> Subject: Re: Windows 2000 non proprietary according to Compaq!5 Message-ID: <20010403204004.2067.qmail@nym.alias.net>   " -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----  J On Tue, 03 Apr 2001, "Terry C. Shannon" <terryshannon@mediaone.net> wrote:   >Compaq's assertion must< >be taken with a grain of salt. Or a 50-pound block thereof.  G I didn't think Windows+Intel needed given that large a margin of error!y     Doc.   -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----  Version: 2.6.2  @ iQEVAwUBOskEcsriC3SGiziTAQFQmgf8DWdN4pxG2JhEUVSZNIcm6AaTekbZZq+A@ y10+hwWKv8Nc9hHbJyzi9u1NN7GERDMBGOZcnhm03GC5IUpJiCGAleiSkWgPwd57@ lgpJX5X8x9qaSdH9cRCXWlOVogS+SpLxGZJbYL7tCK6qM5Chz9b0Z27jk+5WzEGL@ xF8lPEeOT7SF4+C1MP66lsGCtgml2MbuiMZ60evz+fJKbIt3e/qM1h6dM9nKqINr@ Qm0RWryXMqDI4cXfzfKWC9KpcTh4IkuPvFaJTj5H0ktz0yzLcA81pRIZa7Eq6wBE8 /0IPVxPBH9JQ9RGgoj67Zx04AuWD3XFMAE2WjDlxwm7quz7+ZlSWPw== =32UOM -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----    ------------------------------  % Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 23:56:59 +0000A) From: Christof Brass <brass@infopuls.com>o> Subject: Re: Windows 2000 non proprietary according to Compaq!, Message-ID: <3ACBB4CB.FC887F20@infopuls.com>   "Terry C. Shannon" wrote:- >  > >-D > > But the best Compaq line has to be the following: "... TaskSmartF > > N-Series appliances are based on an optimized version of MicrosoftB > > Windows 2000 which is an industry standard - not a proprietary0 > > operating system" Has anyone told Microsoft? > L > No, they are probably too busy laffing. Who wrote that line? Bill Gates or > John Cleese?   :-) :-)p  M > As far as I am concerned, anything you pay for and which is controlled by awI > single Borg, er, entity, is proprietary. Give me freely available, opensF > source, all 65K-bugs-included, Windows 2000 and I'll be the first toL > designate same as non-proprietary. In the interim, Compaq's assertion must= > be taken with a grain of salt. Or a 50-pound block thereof.e   ------------------------------   End of INFO-VAX 2001.188 ************************